Poll

What new faction would you like most?

Konungariket Sverige (Sweden)
50 (15.6%)
Reino de España (Spain)
47 (14.7%)
Koninkrijk der Nederlanden (Netherlands)
37 (11.6%)
Danmark–Norge (Denmark-Norway)
14 (4.4%)
Regno di Sicilia (Sicily and Naples)
2 (0.6%)
Regno d'Italia (Kingdom of Italy)
13 (4.1%)
Devlet-i Âliyye-i Osmâniyye (Ottoman Empire)
56 (17.5%)
Confoederatio Helvetica (Swiss Confederation)
4 (1.3%)
Księstwo Warszawskie (Dutchy of Warsaw)
19 (5.9%)
United States [Co-Belligerent against UK]
38 (11.9%)
Rheinbund (Confederation of the Rhine)
27 (8.4%)
Other (Write which in the thread)
6 (1.9%)
Invalid choice
7 (2.2%)

Total Members Voted: 317

Author Topic: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)  (Read 18751 times)

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Offline Docm30

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2013, 09:27:55 am »
The War of 1812 was not by any logical definition a part of the Napoleonic Wars.

Offline Desert Thunda

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2013, 12:22:23 pm »
The Ottoman empire, reasons stated by Nurdbot.

Offline Riddlez

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2013, 12:28:47 pm »
I bet a good amount of people don't know how to properly make a definition anyway:

Hypethesis (of some kind:

The War of 1812 was part of the napoleonic wars.

Why?
It was in the same time period, and it was fought against the British, who were also in the Napoleonic wars.

So, Because the US were fighting a nation involved in the NW, the War of 1812 is part of the NW.


^^That's some heavy logic.
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Offline alpkerem

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2013, 12:33:36 pm »
The Ottoman empire, reasons stated by Nurdbot.
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u herd it here thirst, alp likes 2 breaking the rules

Offline Nipplestockings

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2013, 05:19:55 pm »
The War of 1812 was not by any logical definition a part of the Napoleonic Wars.

It was most certainly part of the Napoleonic Wars. The United States was allied to the French, and France was their main trade partner. Britain was at war with France, and did not want the United States trading with France. Britain intercepted a number of American trading vessels, looted them, and sometimes forcibly conscripted the sailors and ships into the British navy. The United States was outraged at this, and although a number of small skirmishes had already taken place, formally declared war.

There were a number of other factors in play as well, but that's the most condensed version.

Offline Becker-

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2013, 07:44:37 pm »
America, duh. We're the big swinging dick of the world. We should be in every game.

Offline ClearlyInvsible

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2013, 08:57:03 pm »
There's already an America cirlce-jerk thread becker  ::)

Only two other people voted for the Duchy of Warsaw, I'm surprised. I thought it'd be up there with Sweden and the Ottomans.
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Offline Willhelm

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2013, 11:07:09 pm »
I bet a good amount of people don't know how to properly make a definition anyway:

Hypethesis (of some kind:

The War of 1812 was part of the napoleonic wars.

Why?
It was in the same time period, and it was fought against the British, who were also in the Napoleonic wars.

So, Because the US were fighting a nation involved in the NW, the War of 1812 is part of the NW.


^^That's some heavy logic.

Wat. That's like saying Japan was part of the European Theater in WW2 because they were fighting the USA who was fighting in Europe as well.

Offline ClearlyInvsible

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2013, 11:49:44 pm »
I bet a good amount of people don't know how to properly make a definition anyway:

Hypethesis (of some kind:

The War of 1812 was part of the napoleonic wars.

Why?
It was in the same time period, and it was fought against the British, who were also in the Napoleonic wars.

So, Because the US were fighting a nation involved in the NW, the War of 1812 is part of the NW.


^^That's some heavy logic.

Wat. That's like saying Japan was part of the European Theater in WW2 because they were fighting the USA who was fighting in Europe as well.

Need to check your sarcasm detector, it may be broken.
"No man will make a great leader who wants to do it all himself or get all the credit for doing it."- Andrew Carnegie
“A man who has no conscience, no goodness, does not suffer.” - Khaled Hosseini
Faggots will burn in hell anyway, who cares.

Offline Gizmo

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2013, 11:53:50 pm »
I'd add the Confederation of the Rhine, or Italy.

Offline Riddlez

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2013, 12:02:54 am »
I bet a good amount of people don't know how to properly make a definition anyway:

Hypethesis (of some kind:

The War of 1812 was part of the napoleonic wars.

Why?
It was in the same time period, and it was fought against the British, who were also in the Napoleonic wars.

So, Because the US were fighting a nation involved in the NW, the War of 1812 is part of the NW.


^^That's some heavy logic.

Wat. That's like saying Japan was part of the European Theater in WW2 because they were fighting the USA who was fighting in Europe as well.

That's the point, I was picking apart the comment, simplifying it, thus proving its stupidity.
And you comparison is pretty spot-on.

Though I realise the sarcasm is a bit hidden.
Probably one of the very few old-timers here who hasn't been a regimental leader.

Offline SeanBeansShako

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2013, 12:07:34 am »
Back on topic now folks.

Offline Erik le Rouge

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2013, 02:52:35 am »
Regno d'Italia !

Because...

Napoléon in his costume of King of Italy <3
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Offline Docm30

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2013, 03:27:41 am »
It was most certainly part of the Napoleonic Wars. The United States was allied to the French, and France was their main trade partner. Britain was at war with France, and did not want the United States trading with France. Britain intercepted a number of American trading vessels, looted them, and sometimes forcibly conscripted the sailors and ships into the British navy. The United States was outraged at this, and although a number of small skirmishes had already taken place, formally declared war.

There were a number of other factors in play as well, but that's the most condensed version.

Firstly, Napoleonic France and the US were not allies and they weren't good trade partners. In fact non-intercourse (a ban on trade and diplomatic relations) had been declared against France (and really the whole world) by the Embargo Act of 1807. Non-intercourse was again declared against France by the Non-intercourse Act of 1809. Trade was only re-established between France and the US in 1810 by Macon's Bill Number Two, which promised non-intercourse against Britain if the French agreed to stop harassing American shipping, or the same against France if the British agreed. The French agreed with no real intention of making good (that year, the French captured more American shipping than the British). The only reason Madison continued trade even after France broke it's promises was because they had no other choice. Non-intercourse against both European powers proved disastrous to the US economy.

Secondly, the British didn't care if the US traded with France. During the French revolutionary wars the British had declared it illegal for neutral ships to carry French cargo, but turned a blind eye to American ships doing so. Even after the British blockaded the English Channel and the North Sea in 1805, they continued to allow American ships (and only American ships) through, with the full knowledge they were likely headed to French ports.

Finally, it was illegal for the British to loot American ships. They could seize them, but they couldn't actually loot them. The impressment of American nationals by the Royal navy was also illegal and seemingly very rare. The majority of the cases of it the US government was able to cite were fabricated.

Actions of the British and the Royal Navy had very little to do with the declaration of war against the UK. The war was motivated almost entirely by desire to annex Canada, which was crushing the US economically and was doing so well there was very little desire for American goods over Canadian goods aboard.

So the war had very little to do with Napoleon, who was not an American ally in any sense and hardly traded with the Americans. I fail to see how it qualifies as a part of the Napoleonic Wars, 'Napoleonic' being the key word.

Offline Becker-

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Re: New Faction Poll (Strictly theoretical)
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2013, 06:20:06 am »
It was most certainly part of the Napoleonic Wars. The United States was allied to the French, and France was their main trade partner. Britain was at war with France, and did not want the United States trading with France. Britain intercepted a number of American trading vessels, looted them, and sometimes forcibly conscripted the sailors and ships into the British navy. The United States was outraged at this, and although a number of small skirmishes had already taken place, formally declared war.

There were a number of other factors in play as well, but that's the most condensed version.

Firstly, Napoleonic France and the US were not allies and they weren't good trade partners. In fact non-intercourse (a ban on trade and diplomatic relations) had been declared against France (and really the whole world) by the Embargo Act of 1807. Non-intercourse was again declared against France by the Non-intercourse Act of 1809. Trade was only re-established between France and the US in 1810 by Macon's Bill Number Two, which promised non-intercourse against Britain if the French agreed to stop harassing American shipping, or the same against France if the British agreed. The French agreed with no real intention of making good (that year, the French captured more American shipping than the British). The only reason Madison continued trade even after France broke it's promises was because they had no other choice. Non-intercourse against both European powers proved disastrous to the US economy.

Secondly, the British didn't care if the US traded with France. During the French revolutionary wars the British had declared it illegal for neutral ships to carry French cargo, but turned a blind eye to American ships doing so. Even after the British blockaded the English Channel and the North Sea in 1805, they continued to allow American ships (and only American ships) through, with the full knowledge they were likely headed to French ports.

Finally, it was illegal for the British to loot American ships. They could seize them, but they couldn't actually loot them. The impressment of American nationals by the Royal navy was also illegal and seemingly very rare. The majority of the cases of it the US government was able to cite were fabricated.

Actions of the British and the Royal Navy had very little to do with the declaration of war against the UK. The war was motivated almost entirely by desire to annex Canada, which was crushing the US economically and was doing so well there was very little desire for American goods over Canadian goods aboard.

So the war had very little to do with Napoleon, who was not an American ally in any sense and hardly traded with the Americans. I fail to see how it qualifies as a part of the Napoleonic Wars, 'Napoleonic' being the key word.
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Do not popcorn post.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 11:15:07 pm by McEwanMaster »