You aren't german right? So I think you have no right to judge. Im sure you have no idea what you are talking about ;)I do not think I have ever seen a worse argument in the history of mankind. My nationality doesn't matter the slightest bit. Any German man could easily be more ignorant than me on this subject, and considering the phobia held by Germany regarding WW2... Easily more delusional.Those soldiers killed their own People, which did not follow the nazi orders.[citation needed]Yeah yeah... Non Germans obviously know nothing of German history. At least according to you. You say all SS devisions commited crimes against civilians, well let me tell you something: There was not a single military devision that saw action during WW2 in urban areas that didn't commit "crimes" against civilians. Rules change during war, and the real criminals in terms of civilian casualties were the bombing pilots.
So, guys who dont live in Germany have no idea about the real meaning of the SS or about the crimes, which were made by SS soldiers (there was not a single SS Division/unit, which wasnt making war crimes against civilians).
You are looking for their pretty decent uniforms.. and foreign guys are wearing that uniform with proud it seems. this is the real shit and those guys don't think about that! ;)
The SS were normal men, just like you and me. Just like Ivan from the east and Johnny from Yankeeland. They were soldiers like any other and just followed the bloody orders they were given and act under stress like humans do.
Ohh yeah, in case I didn't make it clear enough already: Please for the love of God, don't tell us we are not allowed to have opinions about German soldiers, about WW2, simply because we are not German. Because that is fucking stupid. Also veri rasis!!!!!111Are you sure that all SS units committed war crimes? I though the Waffen SS was supposed to be Germany's "elite" infantry in ww2 (I know they where the one's to do most of the Jew killing). And I think that's what people want to resemble and there nice looking uniform. also I don't think it's right to be mad about it regardless since then you would be mad at every movie having ss in them it doesn't make any sense. People are way to sensitive now a days -_-It was the German elite infantry. It was supposed to be a "united" European elite fighting force, but the elite had to slack a bit on their demands as the war progressed and towards the end nearly anyone without any serious handicaps could be taken in.
You are right though, serious "war crimes" were not commited by all, of course. The idea is quite absurd... And again, yes. The Gestapo worked as the secret police and had quite a reputation for being violent and brutal (often with a fatal end for their targets). Those were not the men doing door to door conscription though.The WaffenSS members were often seen as complete idiots and absolute radicals by other german soldiers. Often they didn't fight as elite but as senceless suicide commands as the Volkssturm. For example an SS-Officer ordered his men to advance to an village hold by russian MGs in a proper line in marching pace....And your point is?
The SS did most of the warcrimes, hunted jews and germans who still had an normal mind as Hinkel already told you.<333Spoilerwell,,while i agree with all you've said i still believe the Waffen SS,not the SS, are a legitimate part of history and can therfore be reenacted,if u doing tlook back and accept that what happened was int he past, i can guarantee anyone that the same will happen again, this has gone way off topic and im sorry for that, The Waffen SS btw was never designed to be a "german army" but a European army, and in war ALL sides committed atrocities, the USSR is now proven to have wiped out alot more than the Nazi regime, in all honesty, recent studies have shown that the WH committed its fair share of atrocities too,and the NKVD,and the Red Army when it entered Berlin, and the Americans. Now that doesn't make it right, but the fact that it happened, should i not reenact the British in the Nap wars due to what happened at Badajoz? The fact is many people over here at least, Polish/german immigrants who have moved to Australia, Seem to see the SS as the same as the NKVD etc,so we stop people reenacting certain soviet units? No.
History is history,if we like it or not, and trying to forget it we will ALL regret it in the end.
On another note some States down here are trying to ban redcoat reenactors at events,due to the "massacres" of locals back the in the late 1700's,,so ye someones gotta play the "bad guys"
If wanted, i will make a waffen SS section inthe Reenactment discussion area later, so we cannot clog up this thread
p.s. stuff grammar,its early here ;)People can reenact the SS if they want, as long as they acknowledge what they did. Somebody has to play the bad guys, you can't censor them out or people will forget.[close]
Also Zac, pls make seperate thread.
Its like freedom of speach. I may not agree with what your portraying but you have the right to do it.Put forwards your views then, mein liebsten.
Only problem I have with SS reenactors are the pretty high collection of farbs they draw in because of their "uhleet soljurs ov da rike" appeal.
this will sound ignorant and stupid, but i reenact them because i want to,that's it, stuff everyone else. Ive been doing it for 2 years and the public,and many WW2 etc veterans, seem to have no issue after u explain the difference between the multicultural waffen SS and the allgemeine SS. Many seem to have more issue with reenacting certain Russian units.
The best thing ive learned as a reenactor, is not to care about peoples opinion. (i understand how this sounds)
Still, why would you want to re-enact a unit of cowards who betrayed their country and voluntarily supported the Nazi Regime?
Still, why would you want to re-enact a unit of cowards who betrayed their country and voluntarily supported the Nazi Regime?
Still, why would you want to re-enact a unit of cowards who betrayed their country and voluntarily supported the Nazi Regime?
Why would you want to re-enect a country who in all history books are cowards who ran at Waterloo?
Who would want to re-enect a country that keeps saying they won their own revolution?
Still, why would you want to re-enact a unit of cowards who betrayed their country and voluntarily supported the Nazi Regime?
*face desk* The answer would come down to it "Why not?" much the same as "Why would you re-enact a bunch of belgian cowardly seperatist movements?".
Lets take Napoleon ... happily set people to their death for the sake of "Democracy" ... well "Imperialism" but same difference right? dosn't make him any less of a charasmatic tactful leader. The same would go for the SS divisions where killing civilians in "Opposing countries" was actually employed by the US to sanction the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagaski even though the Japenese were about to give up but the message was "never received".
A political state of mind does not entitle you well ... to a title put on you. I voted conservative last election in the UK, does that make me a ponce who trots around in suits? nope it still makes me a working class scumbag ... if only the dreams of politics would make me richer with a single vote ... curse you!
The problem is "They lost", if you lose its not sanctified ... the German nation lost the war thus "Murderers!" but the bombings on civilian sectors during the Gulf war AND WWII by the US "Tactful". Dosn't make any sense.
Why would you want to re-enect a country who in all history books are cowards who ran at Waterloo?
Who would want to re-enect a country that keeps saying they won their own revolution?
Still, why would you want to re-enact a unit of cowards who betrayed their country and voluntarily supported the Nazi Regime?
*snip*
I am referrong to the American Revolution
I am referrong to the American RevolutionOh really now? :P
I am referrong to the American Revolution
Then it's a idiotic thing to say. They shouldn't re-enact it because they weren't the only ones fighting in the war? That's like saying people shouldn't re-enact the French in the Napoleonics because they had so many foreign units and allies.
A love historical reenactors! 8)Ah, that infamous picture...
When someone is reenacting such "elite troops" as some guys say, you should be Aware that there was a strict figure law in that Units. Wondering why some guys are still portraying them (I know that at least one guy is Luftwaffe on that Picture)...Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fww2.headhunters-praha.net%2Fgallery%2F6_23_01_07_10_28_27.jpg&hash=be99eb191325c7f1dac7612fc026883327c15d8f)[close]
No, you are just being fantasticly unclear. How about you stop with the 3rd person talk for a moment and respond like a normal person. Not only it will be easier to understand you, but we might also consider taking you serious.
No, you are just being fantasticly unclear. How about you stop with the 3rd person talk for a moment and respond like a normal person. Not only it will be easier to understand you, but we might also consider taking you serious.
Just replace the 'Riddlez', with 'I', and the He, as well, sure you can figure it out.
if were going to have a discussion about reenacting the SS then people who arent reenacters scram. Go make a thread in the main historical forum.
...was actually employed by the US to sanction the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagaski even though the Japenese were about to give up but the message was "never received".
if were going to have a discussion about reenacting the SS then people who arent reenacters scram. Go make a thread in the main historical forum.
I can see why you'd want to re-enact the Waffen-SS; Bigotry and segregation seem right up your alley.
Right up my alley? If I thought people who arent admins should post in an admin forum would that also mean I support segregation? Plus I would never do SS. Do overportrayed
...as much as i enjoy Docm30's help in regards to history etc, he starting to sound very much like how Duuring did...
I really do not understand why anyone would want to portray the SS. Ever been to Oradour-sur-Glane?
if were going to have a discussion about reenacting the SS then people who arent reenacters scram. Go make a thread in the main historical forum.
I can see why you'd want to re-enact the Waffen-SS; Bigotry and segregation seem right up your alley....was actually employed by the US to sanction the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagaski even though the Japenese were about to give up but the message was "never received".
Japan had no intention of surrendering and was preparing to repel the invasion of Honshu and Kyushu right up until the end of the war. They had repeatedly refused Allied demands to surrender and had made it quite clear that they would never surrender while they could still fight.
Operation Downfall (the planned invasion of the mainland) was estimated by the Allied command to cause half a million American deaths and between five and ten million Japanese deaths. The entire populace would be hostile to the invaders and they had been strongly encouraged to fight (they even raised a corps of armed civilians that wound up numbering over 28 million. Like the Volkssturm, they'd have died in enormous numbers), not to mention the sizeable armies still in Japan. It would have been an absolute blood bath. The 200,000 or so deaths caused by the atomic bombings seem scant in comparison.
The Atomic bombings may have been among the worst things Man has ever had to do, but they saved millions of lives. To claim that they were equivalent to Nazi war-crimes is ridiculous.
Basically every wartime army in history has committed crimes against humanity. The difference is that the Waffen-SS was an armed political group who were officially tasked with committing war-crimes (among other things. I do realise they were soldiers that fought proper). I don't know of any other such group that is widely re-enacted. Napoleon's army may have committed war-crimes, but does anyone re-enact a unit that killed as many civilians and POWs with official sanction as the Waffen-SS?
Warcrimes are only put to people who have lost a war, have you ever noticed that?
Japan was a floating siege works, there was no-way in or out by sea thanks to intensive mine laying...
QuoteWarcrimes are only put to people who have lost a war, have you ever noticed that?
Bullshit. At first, yes, but we now know about many Allied warcrimes.
Docm is right - The allies were not going to let Japan off, and that would have resulted in a bloodbath. As much as the nuclear bomb was terrible, it saved both Allied and Japanese lives.
I'm done with you, Kator Viridian. You're getting into conspiracy theory territory with this live test crap.
I will say this, though. You are right about the Japanese not being able to counter-attack, They couldn't have and I never said they intended to. They intended to fight a defensive ground-war on the mainland, where there were not only hundreds of thousands of soldiers still stationed, but over 30 million armed civilians each of whom swore an oath to fight to the death before surrendering any Japanese soil.
The Japanese government had itself sworn never to surrender while they were still capable of fighting. The Emperor may have wished to surrender, but he was a puppet that was silenced by the real government. The Japanese had unquestionably intended to draw the war out as long as possible, just as the Germans had done.
But of course, you know better than about 10 different (and top-secret, thus useless for propaganda) studies done by the Allied high-command, all of which estimated millions of deaths. You know the real history, not the rubbish written by the victors.Japan was a floating siege works, there was no-way in or out by sea thanks to intensive mine laying...
You know that's my point, right? that the invasion of mainland Japan (if necessary, and it certainly was without the atomic bombings) was going to be an absolute bloodbath, but it was inevitable without the atomic bombs.
Do bear in mind that the Japanese had no idea the atomic bombs existed before the actual bombings. That shit was as top-secret as anything ever has been.
Kator Viridian, please do not take this as an attack, because I mean it honestly. I simply cannot understand most of your post. Your English is of a brand I've never encountered and I find it effectively unreadable.
Please, and I again mean this in a helpful way with no intended malice at all, brush up on how sentences and clauses are formed. Your grammar in general needs help.
I legitimately find your post very, very difficult to parse. I am stupid, though, so maybe it's my fault.