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The Lounge => Historical Discussion => Topic started by: Allasaphore on June 06, 2013, 05:28:34 am

Title: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Allasaphore on June 06, 2013, 05:28:34 am
I'll be honest, from what I have heard of many history classes, most of them merely mention WWI (though several do go in depth). Even then, I've yet to have one that mentioned the Pacific portion of the war (even though it had relatively little impact on the outcome), or tried to explain what the Japanese gained from the war (rather, what they didn't gain), that being if they mentioned Japan at all.

I just feel it doesn't get enough attention. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Killington on June 06, 2013, 05:34:19 am
In Canada we spend a large portion of history class on WW1, mostly because of the badass Canadian stormtroopers, but it's mostly on the western front, not the pacific part. But I suspect that in 'Murica they probably don't touch on it as much, due to limited involvment. So yeah, it would be nice if it was covered more evenly, at least.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Karth on June 06, 2013, 06:22:32 am
Well in my history classes during high school we did talk about World War I.. not entirely indepth, but to be honest really more of the American role in the war, unlike World War 2 and Vietnam.  Im sure it gets a lot more attention in history classes for countries who participated greatly in the war from the start.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: zac on June 06, 2013, 06:49:30 am
In New South Wales, Australia ,we spend a lot of time studying WW1 ,,not so much on WW2. 

although i call it the Great War ,as it used to be called, and WW1 for me is either the Napoleonic wars or the SYW
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on June 06, 2013, 08:15:08 am
It is given just as much attention as any other subject here, maybe even more.

Netherlands didn't participate in World war 1, but (apparantly unlike other countries) we are given a wide neutral look on things. When we discuss WW2 The Netherlands is barely mentioned in the first few paragraphs.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Onii on June 06, 2013, 08:27:20 am
Same as Duuring, in Denmark we talk about the general things surrounding WW1 (and how we sold "Gullash" to the fighters ::))
But when it comes to the WW2 and all that its pretty much only about the german occupation. And then the rest is quickly rapped up.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Hadhod on June 06, 2013, 10:00:54 am
Living in germany I can tell you that WW1 usually gets talked through in many ways. We discussed the reasons for the war, the seething conflicts over the whole of Europe, that everyone was ready for war but no one really wanted to start one, about the tactics, etc.  But about the war itself is not really spoken that much as it was trench warfare the most of the time.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Dom13WorstNW on June 06, 2013, 10:17:07 am
well I just finished 8th grade this year and I think we've talked about ww1 and ww2 about 3 times in my years at school total(And we have never talked about the Napoleonic wars) So far the only war we have really covered is the American civil war :-\
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: von_Bismarck on June 06, 2013, 04:13:53 pm
The great war was the clash of empires, the destruction of the old ones and the pathway to a new generation. The second world war was a unavoidable sequel of the first and therefore the great war deserves a lot of importance in the history of the civilized world.

Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Nipplestockings on June 06, 2013, 04:18:38 pm
We learned about it in like a day in 8th grade with a single hand out with a few paragraphs about the old M.A.I.N.S. causes. We went over it even more briefly in my AP world history course, which was rather surprising.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on June 06, 2013, 04:30:18 pm
Here in the UK we learnt very little about WW1, in fact I can't even remember being taught it at all. My brother was once told who was on each side, but he insisted that Italy was in the Central Powers so I doubt they taught him well... When I chose to do GCSE History (High school qualification) we spent quite a bit of time on Treaty of Versailles, St. Germain, Neuilly, Sevres etc etc. Nothing on the actual war itself though.

Italy was, originally, in the central powers. However, when the war started they remained neutral, and joined the Entente a year later. It's confusing, I know. That's the Italians for you.

(And we have never talked about the Napoleonic wars) So far the only war we have really covered is the American civil war :-\

BLASFEMY!
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Brock on June 06, 2013, 04:43:36 pm
My teachers barely mentioned it, although I'm not surprised seeing as USA did little. We usually talk about American revolution, Texas/USA war with Mexico, and ACW. Very little WW1, WW2, and no Napoleonic Wars.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: TWking on June 06, 2013, 04:57:31 pm
Here in the UK we learnt very little about WW1, in fact I can't even remember being taught it at all. My brother was once told who was on each side, but he insisted that Italy was in the Central Powers so I doubt they taught him well... When I chose to do GCSE History (High school qualification) we spent quite a bit of time on Treaty of Versailles, St. Germain, Neuilly, Sevres etc etc. Nothing on the actual war itself though.


Yep same here. they should really rename it "Study start and end of both of the world wars"
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on June 06, 2013, 05:05:40 pm
My teachers barely mentioned it, although I'm not surprised seeing as USA did little. We usually talk about American revolution, Texas/USA war with Mexico, and ACW. Very little WW1, WW2, and no Napoleonic Wars.

Nationalism all the way.

'Cos all that happened outside of the USA, just ain't important.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Nipplestockings on June 06, 2013, 05:10:13 pm
My teachers barely mentioned it, although I'm not surprised seeing as USA did little. We usually talk about American revolution, Texas/USA war with Mexico, and ACW. Very little WW1, WW2, and no Napoleonic Wars.

Nationalism all the way.

'Cos all that happened outside of the USA, just ain't important.

School in America:

All of elementary school: ACW, civil rights movement in america, american revolution
Middle school: Ancient civilizations in 6th grade but the rest is just american history
High school: Pretty basic world history, more american history, advanced placement courses in any history provided your school offers them

I SURE KNOW A LOT ABOUT AMERICAN HISTORY. Just kidding, no I don't, I know next to nothing aside from the basics. Goes to show how much of a failure the American public school system is.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Karth on June 06, 2013, 05:21:53 pm
Most people dont even know who the 2nd President of the United States was. lol
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Allasaphore on June 06, 2013, 05:44:25 pm
I'm an American, so this is the perspective I'm coming from. Given its importance in world history, it deserves a little more than a day, I'd think. That's just me, though. :)
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Ililsa on June 06, 2013, 05:55:12 pm
Much to my chagrin in my schoolboy days, I never noticed history classes focussing much on military history at all.

We did have a bit on World War I though, in which we watched Blackadder and were shown some pictures of half rotten feet.

Most of the World War II we covered was about the home front as well, as I recall.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Nipplestockings on June 06, 2013, 06:02:42 pm
Much to my chagrin in my schoolboy days, I never noticed history classes focussing much on military history at all.

We did have a bit on World War I though, in which we watched Blackadder and were shown some pictures of half rotten feet.

Most of the World War II we covered was about the home front as well, as I recall.

Same here, they mainly talked about general themes and topics instead of specific events. I think the curriculum used to focus more on military history but they tried to steer things away from that because it didn't teach the most important part of history, which is understanding the past. Military history is more raw facts based and its hard to really take anything away from it if you don't know a great deal about the long term significance of the war or the causes behind it.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: TORN on June 06, 2013, 08:51:22 pm
Here in Belgium is gets alot of attention. Everyday.

In Ypres when the sun goes down. People do the last post.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Jefferson on June 06, 2013, 10:57:52 pm
The version of the UK curriculum that I studied does pay quite a bit of attention to WW1. We did quite a long, and fairly in depth course about the beginning of the war and Trench warfare itself, although I don't remember doing anything beyond what British troops did, and it was all about the Western Front. Come to think about it, my teacher barely aknowledged that there were other fronts!

We have recently also finished a mini - topic about the Home Front during WW1, which was actually rather interesting.

Incidentally, we did next to nothing on WW2.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: BSM 'Shut up' Williams on June 06, 2013, 11:15:42 pm
Here in the UK we learnt very little about WW1, in fact I can't even remember being taught it at all. My brother was once told who was on each side, but he insisted that Italy was in the Central Powers so I doubt they taught him well... When I chose to do GCSE History (High school qualification) we spent quite a bit of time on Treaty of Versailles, St. Germain, Neuilly, Sevres etc etc. Nothing on the actual war itself though.

Same. Damn British Education! They only teach us about Britain no other countrie's History!
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Ililsa on June 07, 2013, 12:18:01 am
Here in the UK we learnt very little about WW1, in fact I can't even remember being taught it at all. My brother was once told who was on each side, but he insisted that Italy was in the Central Powers so I doubt they taught him well... When I chose to do GCSE History (High school qualification) we spent quite a bit of time on Treaty of Versailles, St. Germain, Neuilly, Sevres etc etc. Nothing on the actual war itself though.

Same. Damn British Education! They only teach us about Britain no other countrie's History!

Are you somehow from every country there is or ever was, or something?
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Docm30 on June 07, 2013, 12:23:14 am
Being Polish, I received my education in pre-Colombian Coixtlahuaca, where they didn't even teach us about World War 1.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on June 07, 2013, 12:36:00 am
Here in the UK we learnt very little about WW1, in fact I can't even remember being taught it at all. My brother was once told who was on each side, but he insisted that Italy was in the Central Powers so I doubt they taught him well... When I chose to do GCSE History (High school qualification) we spent quite a bit of time on Treaty of Versailles, St. Germain, Neuilly, Sevres etc etc. Nothing on the actual war itself though.

Same. Damn British Education! They only teach us about Britain no other countrie's History!

Are you somehow from every country there is or ever was, or something?

Baktech lives in British but is a Polish nationalist. Like that Eagle guy who lived his entire life in Norway of social care, but is a Turkish Nationalistic Fascist. I'm not even kidding.

But back on topic - Isn't it that history on high schools is never quite 'it' ?
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: McEwan on June 07, 2013, 12:44:43 am
My high school actually has some pretty good history programs. There's intensive Advanced Placement US and EU history courses and a range of specialized electives, among other things. I haven't taken the US and EU history courses, so I'm not completely sure what the entire curriculum is, but I'm pretty sure they teach some substantial stuff on WWI. One elective I've taken is a History of Modern Warfare class, so it's fairly obvious we spent some time on WWI. I really appreciated that fact, especially now that I saw this thread. Sadly the course is only one semester so we didn't have time to get into the truly nitty-gritty stuff. All the same, I think my school gives a fair portion of its time to WWI (although WWII is at the forefront, as always).
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Menelaos on June 07, 2013, 01:13:16 am
Quote
There's intensive Advanced Placement US and EU history courses and a range of specialized electives, among other things. I haven't taken the US and EU history courses, so I'm not completely sure what the entire curriculum is, but I'm pretty sure they teach some substantial stuff on WWI.
It has little emphasis because of how little the role of the US actually had on the war. It's just based on Wilson's Foreign policy and first major wartime country that had to dedicate toward resource usage. So not really.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Dom13WorstNW on June 07, 2013, 09:46:02 am
My teachers barely mentioned it, although I'm not surprised seeing as USA did little. We usually talk about American revolution, Texas/USA war with Mexico, and ACW. Very little WW1, WW2, and no Napoleonic Wars.

Yep same thing for me  :'(

Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Gokiller on June 07, 2013, 10:01:04 am
Didn't get shit about WW1 in the two years I had history. Perhaps they said once that it was there but I probly forgot that. I think we only had it once or two lessons abount WW2. In those lessons we only did the next: 1. Speaking about the holocaust 2. Watching a movie - der Undergang. Absolute terrible.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Olafson on June 07, 2013, 10:41:32 am
We had to do powerpoint presentations about it. I still remember all that horrible inaccuracies in my classmates presentations.
Two of the groups showed pictures from Call of Duty 2... One of them said that after the first world war, Berlin was completely destroyed and showed a picture of it. One group showed color pictures of American sherman tanks in France. Almost everyone just talked about the western front, all other parts of the war were completely left out.
Surprisingly, my teacher thought that their presentations were good and gave them good marks. After that we watched this horrible 1979 version of "All quite on the western front". Thats all we did.

But I am quite happy, at least we talked about it. Napoleonic Wars, 30 years war, Franco-Prussian war, basically all the important wars for the history of Germany were just completely left out. We learned 0 seconds about it. Not that we learned much anyway... My teacher was a retard who didn't know anything about history anyway.
But thats Germany. You learn alot about Nazis and how bad they are and how guilty you should feel, but you don't actually learn anything proper about Germanys history. (In the part of Germany where I live, might be different in other parts.)
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on June 07, 2013, 10:47:08 am
Are you really teached to feel guilty? :p
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Olafson on June 08, 2013, 12:29:41 pm
Not directly, but their intention behind it is to let us feel guilty for it. They obviously do not say: "you should feel guilty!" but indirectly they do.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Docm30 on June 08, 2013, 12:45:44 pm
It's still better than the Japanese method of teaching that they've never done anything wrong at all.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Olafson on June 08, 2013, 01:52:41 pm
True. Though, people also seem to forget that the Japanese or Russians committed war crimes as well. Might be because Germany is the only country actually telling people about the crimes and actually feeling sorry for it.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: MazZ on June 08, 2013, 02:59:45 pm
What I as a Belgian saw in history classes about WW1:

- Trench warfare
- How Belgium got raped multiple times
- Start of the holocaust (visiting museums and such)
- Generally what countries that were involved
- How it all started
- And maybe a few things about the guns and machines they used back then and some battles but nothing to spectacular really
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on June 08, 2013, 03:36:48 pm
Unless you mean the Armenian genocide, I'm not sure what the Holocaust has to do with WW1.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Jefferson on June 09, 2013, 12:57:39 am
Not directly, but their intention behind it is to let us feel guilty for it. They obviously do not say: "you should feel guilty!" but indirectly they do.

Heh, it's the same for British schools with the Slave Trade, and I have a sneaking suspiscion that the whole British Empire based unit I'm taking next year will have a similar vein.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Docm30 on June 09, 2013, 01:24:12 am
That's odd; the Kingdom of Britain was the second country in Europe (after Poland-Lithuania) to ban slavery and did far more than any other country in history to end the global slave trade. You'd think the British would, in their typical fashion, teach that they were among the least worst when it came to slavery. Not good, certainly, but far from the worst.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on June 09, 2013, 01:27:59 am
We are learned we (The Dutch) started it, and then they explain how the trade worked. Good attention is given how much these people suffered, but I don't remember anything even remotely hinting we should feel sorry about it.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Hadhod on June 09, 2013, 01:54:34 am
Are you really teached to feel guilty? :p

Yep, we are not directly but you can see it in the way we concentrate on the subject National Socialism etc. (just like Olafson said already).
I guess it still has to be done, I mean in the eyes of many people outside of Germany we are seen as Nazis, especially our politicians...
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Suede on June 09, 2013, 09:48:11 am
Since we here in Ukraine had more important wars and events when Austria-Hungary and Russian Empire crashed at the end of WW1, and were in USSR for several decades - yes, it doesn't
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Jelly on June 09, 2013, 02:56:42 pm
Here in the UK we learnt very little about WW1, in fact I can't even remember being taught it at all. My brother was once told who was on each side, but he insisted that Italy was in the Central Powers so I doubt they taught him well... When I chose to do GCSE History (High school qualification) we spent quite a bit of time on Treaty of Versailles, St. Germain, Neuilly, Sevres etc etc. Nothing on the actual war itself though.

Same. Damn British Education! They only teach us about Britain no other countrie's History!
Actually, for GCSE, we've done about Germany, Hitler's rise to power and the League of Nations, nothing about Britain!
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Riddlez on June 09, 2013, 03:22:55 pm
Well. Riddlez History lessons about WW1 and WW2 were taken here.

Where Riddlez goes to school (Holland), we are only told politics. Nothing. Else. It it such a pain in the arse!
The word 'tactic' is barely used. Only reasons for war, and the effects of it.

And that also goes for: Napoleonic wars, Russian Revolution, Afghan war, Israeli wars.

It's the reason Riddlez didn't choose Hostory as a subjec. While Riddlez enjoys history very much, but, war history.

AFAIK, the only place where military history is taught, is at the military academy.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: MazZ on June 09, 2013, 03:29:19 pm
Unless you mean the Armenian genocide, I'm not sure what the Holocaust has to do with WW1.
Believe it or not, the holocaust has its roots in (more at the end of) WW1.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on June 09, 2013, 04:26:01 pm
Roots, yes. But the holocaust is not a part of WWI, and I don't think it should be addressed too much when going over the subject of the first world war. It's like talking about the entire Napoleonic war when your actual subject is the American war of Independence.

Instead, when a teacher is talking about the holocaust as a subject, he should try and look back and see the reasons of it. You can easily go back to the middle ages when talking about its roots.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: von_Bismarck on June 09, 2013, 07:06:40 pm
The roots of the holocaust are in the european middle ages.
In medieval Europe, many persecutions of Jews in the name of Christianity occurred, notably during the Crusades — when Jews all over Germany were massacred — and a series of expulsions from England, Germany, France, and, in the largest expulsion of all, Spain. Jews were frequently trialled and put to death for a variety of imagined religious offenses against Christianity. On many occasions, Jews were accused of a blood libel, the supposed drinking of the blood of Christian children in mockery of the Christian Eucharist. Jews were also falsely accused of torturing consecrated host wafers in a reenactment of the Crucifixion. Towards the end of the Middle Ages, Martin Luther's teachings inspired and deeply influenced Protestant traditions and culture. He was widely known for his writings about the Jews, the nature and consequences of which are the subject of much debate among scholars, many of whom have characterized them as anti-Semitic. He stated that Jews' homes should be destroyed, their synagogues and schools burned, money confiscated, and rights and liberties curtailed.
During the time of the great war and the 20's, the jews were very integrated in most of Europe, however, that changed with the rise of the Nazis.


Overall
Your history lesson is very erroneous, Mazz.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Jelly on June 09, 2013, 08:56:07 pm
Way to break someone's opinion xD
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Kator Viridian on June 09, 2013, 09:27:03 pm
The roots of the holocaust are in the european middle ages.
In medieval Europe, many persecutions of Jews in the name of Christianity occurred, notably during the Crusades — when Jews all over Germany were massacred — and a series of expulsions from England, Germany, France, and, in the largest expulsion of all, Spain. Jews were frequently trialled and put to death for a variety of imagined religious offenses against Christianity. On many occasions, Jews were accused of a blood libel, the supposed drinking of the blood of Christian children in mockery of the Christian Eucharist. Jews were also falsely accused of torturing consecrated host wafers in a reenactment of the Crucifixion. Towards the end of the Middle Ages, Martin Luther's teachings inspired and deeply influenced Protestant traditions and culture. He was widely known for his writings about the Jews, the nature and consequences of which are the subject of much debate among scholars, many of whom have characterized them as anti-Semitic. He stated that Jews' homes should be destroyed, their synagogues and schools burned, money confiscated, and rights and liberties curtailed.
During the time of the great war and the 20's, the jews were very integrated in most of Europe, however, that changed with the rise of the Nazis.


Overall
Your history lesson is very erroneous, Mazz.

Well there wasn't many trials at all ... more of Bung them in a hole in the ground so they can't escape and then set fire to it:

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpast.oxfordjournals.org%2Fcontent%2F196%2F1%2F3%2Fembed%2Finline-graphic-1.gif&hash=a7cf25ba208bc9025e2a8a3451a9838333afbf18)
[close]

And as for Martin Luther, he was an inspirer for but never took part in the protestation movement as he simply wanted a reformation on the current Catholic system to be rid of things like indugances and Pluralism .. he far from wanted a splitting of the church at the time.

But back onto WWI, probably not mentioned due to more of the heavy intake of other nations. WWI lacked really the "World" part of its name, WWII on the other hand can go right across the globe due to the large involvement that took place at such early datings to the begining of it.

The big involvment of nations from across the globe in WWII really spurred the historical focus over "The Great War".
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Nipplestockings on June 09, 2013, 09:30:43 pm
The roots of the holocaust are in the european middle ages.
In medieval Europe, many persecutions of Jews in the name of Christianity occurred, notably during the Crusades — when Jews all over Germany were massacred — and a series of expulsions from England, Germany, France, and, in the largest expulsion of all, Spain. Jews were frequently trialled and put to death for a variety of imagined religious offenses against Christianity. On many occasions, Jews were accused of a blood libel, the supposed drinking of the blood of Christian children in mockery of the Christian Eucharist. Jews were also falsely accused of torturing consecrated host wafers in a reenactment of the Crucifixion. Towards the end of the Middle Ages, Martin Luther's teachings inspired and deeply influenced Protestant traditions and culture. He was widely known for his writings about the Jews, the nature and consequences of which are the subject of much debate among scholars, many of whom have characterized them as anti-Semitic. He stated that Jews' homes should be destroyed, their synagogues and schools burned, money confiscated, and rights and liberties curtailed.
During the time of the great war and the 20's, the jews were very integrated in most of Europe, however, that changed with the rise of the Nazis.


Overall
Your history lesson is very erroneous, Mazz.

Well there wasn't many trials at all ... more of Bung them in a hole in the ground so they can't escape and then set fire to it:

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpast.oxfordjournals.org%2Fcontent%2F196%2F1%2F3%2Fembed%2Finline-graphic-1.gif&hash=a7cf25ba208bc9025e2a8a3451a9838333afbf18)
[close]

And as for Martin Luther, he was an inspirer for but never took part in the protestation movement as he simply wanted a reformation on the current Catholic system to be rid of things like indugances and Pluralism .. he far from wanted a splitting of the church at the time.

But back onto WWI, probably not mentioned due to more of the heavy intake of other nations. WWI lacked really the "World" part of its name, WWII on the other hand can go right across the globe due to the large involvement that took place at such early datings to the begining of it.

The big involvment of nations from across the globe in WWII really spurred the historical focus over "The Great War".

Ww1 did not lack the world part of its name, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. World War 1 was fought in Africa, Asia, South America, and Europe.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on June 09, 2013, 10:29:48 pm
Come to think of it, shouldn't we call the Napoleonics a world war too?
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Ililsa on June 09, 2013, 10:40:51 pm
Come to think of it, shouldn't we call the Napoleonics a world war too?

Winston Churchill has referred to the 7 Years War as the First World War, as it took place in India, off the coast of Africa, in the Americas and in Europe.

I've never considered the Napoleonic Wars to have the same scope.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on June 09, 2013, 11:13:32 pm
The Napoleonics took place from Argentina to Australia, from Sweden to South Africa, and that's when not counting the war of 1812 as a part.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Docm30 on June 09, 2013, 11:47:02 pm
Argentina and Australia? The British invasion of Buenos Aires and the Rum Rebellions aren't in any way a part of the Napoleonic wars, if that's what you're referring to.

Anyway, virtually all of the fighting was contained to continental Europe and involved no non-European countries. That and the fact that the Napoleonic wars were not a war, but several spread over a decade.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Rowaan on June 10, 2013, 01:14:05 am
Well, due to the clearly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkHgAg8GCIM) better British schooling system, when it came to my GCSE's in history, we were taught about the history us brilliant british kids are just dying to find out about: Germany 1918-39.

God, could it get any worse? (Okay, maybe it could).
Hitlers rise to power is fairly interesting, but learning about the Spartacists and the Freikorps and all this other mundane stuff we frankly don't give a flying fuck about seems a little pointless. We avoid all the interesting bits like actually learning about WW1 and WW2 like the plague. Granted, they are all important events that led up to WW2, but as adolescent teens we want a bit more action.

That takes up 2/3 topics we learn about, the final topic is Vietnam. Yeah, it's pretty interesting but we don't really learn about the warfare side of things, just the politics/civil side of things (fairly interesting, we go into the things like kent state, the various songs and things). The most we learn about warfare are S&D missions and all the operations that took place, not the weapons, gear etc that people like me are probably more interested in.

To sum up, the British school kids that I have talked to want to learn about more interesting things: perhaps the British empire or the colonial period. (Fairly nationalistic approach but...meh).
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Ililsa on June 10, 2013, 02:43:30 am
I had the honour of learning about US history when I did my GCSEs, mostly a very vague overview of the 19th century.

I got a D.

All I got out of it was the insistence on saying 'manifestiny' instead of manifest destiny.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: MazZ on June 10, 2013, 08:30:26 am
Your history lesson is very erroneous, Mazz.

Could not agree more, although this history lesson was more than 5 years ago and I could be switching up things xD.
As far as the holocaust goes, wasn't the correct (my mistake) term because that term is specifically bound to the genocide committed by Germany in WW2.

I was talking about war crimes (equal to genocide) committed on russian soil.

And the museums we visited was indeed not connected to WW1 but to WW2.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: joer5835 on June 12, 2013, 06:14:34 pm
In my class, we spent more on WW1 than on WW2, but that's because our teacher thought we already knew too much about WW2. But like everybody, just the reasons and effects of the war, not actual tactics, weapons etc. The closest thing we got to that was watching All quite on the western front (1930 version).

THe thing in my school that annoyed me the most was when we talked about the industrial revolution, we only talked about how terrible the conditions and the wages were. Yeah, I know that by 2 lessons, now can we get into some 19th century politics and imperialism?
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Humlenerd on June 12, 2013, 06:50:54 pm
[...] But thats Germany. You learn alot about Nazis and how bad they are and how guilty you should feel, but you don't actually learn anything proper about Germanys history. (In the part of Germany where I live, might be different in other parts.)
I always thought you were Swedish  :o
Anyways, what you learn in school is controlled by politicans, and they are always having a political agenda. In Germany(I guess), the agenda is to make Germans feel shame for something their ancestors did. I mean, where I live, in Norway, several newpapers revealed that social studies school books were written in a very socialist way, which also favoured the EU.

Germans should learn about WW1, and about the very important events etc. which happened afterwards. Like the Kapp Putsch, about the Freikorps, about the Baltic Freikorps(which almoast managed to conquer Estonia) etc. But this should be thought in a neutral way. Indenpendent thinking is good thinking.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Allasaphore on June 12, 2013, 09:11:43 pm
Holocaust literally means "total destruction", Merriam-Webster says it is a "a mass slaughter of people; especially : genocide" in our context. The Armenian Genocide may then be considered a holocaust, though we tend to think of the Jewish Holocaust of the 1930's/1940's when we say the word. Literally, the Armenian Genocide is "a holocaust" but not "the Holocaust". Depending on your definition of "large", Hiroshima and Nagasaki may be considered holocausts, as may any other slaughter or obliteration with fire one can find in human history.

Antisemitism existed in Europe long before the Second World War, and existed in places other than what would become Germany. For example, the nineteenth century saw Jews expelled to the westernmost regions of the Russian Empire, along with pogroms against them. They were completely expelled from Spain following the completion of the Reconquista if they refused conversion to the Catholic faith. Even during the Crusades, the religious fervor fueled the slaughter of thousands of Jews across the Holy Roman Empire and France, and had been denounced as "Christ-killers" beforehand. Simply put, antisemitism wasn't new at the turn of the twentieth century.

Now, WWI deserves recognition because of the sheer change it ushered into Europe. The French Revolution was a wound to the Old Regime in Europe, but WWI sealed its fate. It was the fall of empires, with new governments being set up in their steads, a redrawing of the maps of Europe. I suppose it also deserves to be noted that this was the final war where cavalry played any major role, as the Polish cavalry during WWII was unable to help protect that nation from occupation. It's always a wonder to look at the diplomatic web that initiated the Great War, though.

With regards to the origins of WWII, I would go back to 1871 at the very least, if not further. The loss of Alsace-Lorraine and the humiliating defeat suffered by the French would have been fresh in the minds of soldiers on the Western Front, with reclamation of that region as a goal in the peace terms following WWI. We could go to say that the causes of WWI came about with the recession of the Ottoman Empire, and the Austrian Empire's (Austria-Hungary 1867-1918) acquisition of portions of the volatile Balkans. It's up to debate, really.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Nipplestockings on June 12, 2013, 09:24:23 pm
I agree mostly except

Quote
The loss of Alsace-Lorraine and the humiliating defeat suffered by the French would have been fresh in the minds of soldiers on the Western Front

No it wasn't. Men fighting on the western front could not have cared less about the loss of Alsace-Lorraine, which happened over 40 years before the start of world war 1, meaning the only people who would have actually remembered it would be middle aged men who did not fight in the war, or politicians who tried to use the reclamation of Alsace-Lorraine as a rallying point for French troops. Most soldiers on the western front were young boys on the verge of manhood (16-25) years old approximately, and they had no emotional connection or any reason to care about an event that happened long before their times.

Of course politicians did care, and even if they were too young to remember as well they were certainly aware of it and were eager to get back at Germany for it, but there weren't really any soldiers fighting on the western front who remembered it.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: von_Bismarck on June 13, 2013, 04:23:32 am
Your history lesson is very erroneous, Mazz.


I was talking about war crimes (equal to genocide) committed on russian soil.

And the museums we visited was indeed not connected to WW1 but to WW2.
You are wrong, again. War crime doesn't equal to genocide, let me explain to you the difference between genocide and a war crime.

Genocide:
The deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation. Motivated by ideology.

War crime:
Noun
An action carried out during the conduct of a war that violates accepted international rules of war (Such like the use of chemical weapons during the time of the Geneva convention) and the execution of prisioners. Either a simple whim of the soldiers or as an strategy.
As nipplestockings stated before, most of the soldiers who fought in the western front were young men who didn't served in the franco-prussian war and thus, they had no emotional or idelogical connection with the loss of Alsace.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Docm30 on June 13, 2013, 05:06:26 am
Chemical weapons were banned by the Geneva Protocol, not the Geneva Convention. They were legal during WW1.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Friedrich on June 13, 2013, 11:35:54 am
Now, WWI deserves recognition because of the sheer change it ushered into Europe. The French Revolution was a wound to the Old Regime in Europe, but WWI sealed its fate. It was the fall of empires, with new governments being set up in their steads, a redrawing of the maps of Europe. I suppose it also deserves to be noted that this was the final war where cavalry played any major role, as the Polish cavalry during WWII was unable to help protect that nation from occupation. It's always a wonder to look at the diplomatic web that initiated the Great War, though.

The spirit of the french revolution was buried in the street barricades of europes capitals in 1848! Since then until WWI (or The Great War in anglo-saxon history) Europe were mostly ruled by not any more absolutistic regimes, but autocratic or neo-absolutism ones. A trace-appearance in this time is the run for colonies and it's following arming for big navies (to save these colonies) in GB, German Empire, France, Russian Empire, Japan, USA and even the Kingdom of Italy. But Germany here was new in the concert of colonial powers, so most of the later Entente were suspicious abaut german armament on the seas. Additional France seeked for revenge for the lost war 1871. 1915 Italy left the Central Powers for the Entente because of its revenge with Austria-Hungary. And Ottoman Empire joined the Central Powers because it was more threatened by Russia on the Black Sea and by Italy in North Africa then by Austria on the Balkans. Japan cleared allready out with Russia in 1905 who is the superior power in the Pacific, and in 1914 it saw its chance to get the german colonies there.
Cavalry didn't play a big role in WWI. It did later between Poland and Russia in 1919 during the Polish–Soviet War, because those armies weren't industrialised like the armies taking part in WWI.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Kator Viridian on June 14, 2013, 01:12:34 am
Spoiler
The roots of the holocaust are in the european middle ages.
In medieval Europe, many persecutions of Jews in the name of Christianity occurred, notably during the Crusades — when Jews all over Germany were massacred — and a series of expulsions from England, Germany, France, and, in the largest expulsion of all, Spain. Jews were frequently trialled and put to death for a variety of imagined religious offenses against Christianity. On many occasions, Jews were accused of a blood libel, the supposed drinking of the blood of Christian children in mockery of the Christian Eucharist. Jews were also falsely accused of torturing consecrated host wafers in a reenactment of the Crucifixion. Towards the end of the Middle Ages, Martin Luther's teachings inspired and deeply influenced Protestant traditions and culture. He was widely known for his writings about the Jews, the nature and consequences of which are the subject of much debate among scholars, many of whom have characterized them as anti-Semitic. He stated that Jews' homes should be destroyed, their synagogues and schools burned, money confiscated, and rights and liberties curtailed.
During the time of the great war and the 20's, the jews were very integrated in most of Europe, however, that changed with the rise of the Nazis.


Overall
Your history lesson is very erroneous, Mazz.

Well there wasn't many trials at all ... more of Bung them in a hole in the ground so they can't escape and then set fire to it:

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpast.oxfordjournals.org%2Fcontent%2F196%2F1%2F3%2Fembed%2Finline-graphic-1.gif&hash=a7cf25ba208bc9025e2a8a3451a9838333afbf18)
[close]

And as for Martin Luther, he was an inspirer for but never took part in the protestation movement as he simply wanted a reformation on the current Catholic system to be rid of things like indugances and Pluralism .. he far from wanted a splitting of the church at the time.

But back onto WWI, probably not mentioned due to more of the heavy intake of other nations. WWI lacked really the "World" part of its name, WWII on the other hand can go right across the globe due to the large involvement that took place at such early datings to the begining of it.

The big involvment of nations from across the globe in WWII really spurred the historical focus over "The Great War".

Ww1 did not lack the world part of its name, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. World War 1 was fought in Africa, Asia, South America, and Europe.
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Indeed countries where involved around the world but the fighting took part in Africa, the Middle east and Europe .. the fighting hardly if at all touches Asia (Unless you count Russia although fighting never got to the Europe/Asia border) and if you havn't noticed Asia seems to have a larger population nowadays which will play on popularity of which war is more "Historically popular".

WWII was more "Home fighting" than anything WWI had been, in China the Japanese were taking over and the Burmese/British/Australian/Indian/American front took place ... which wasn't there in WWI infact NO battles took place in China as a direct cause of the German/Empirical powers. The fighting around Europe/Africa took place in Similar areas as well as the Middle east.

So while fighting in WWI was predominantly Europe, Africa and Middle east ... WWII can be traced from just off shore American east, through Europe, Africa, Middle east, India, China, Australia, Russia ... a much more "Home fighting" feel to it a hell of a lot more than WWI. WWII in this aspect offers a lot more culture study, tactical study AND can be transfered around the world a lot more easily for shared experiances ... Apart from the Americas where the only homeland deaths were 4 people ... at a church picnic ... By a paper balloon ... with a bomb.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Allasaphore on June 14, 2013, 06:02:26 am

Of course politicians did care, and even if they were too young to remember as well they were certainly aware of it and were eager to get back at Germany for it, but there weren't really any soldiers fighting on the western front who remembered it.

Pretty much what I was trying to get at. Politically speaking, 1871 was horrific to the collective French psyche. I had meant it on the level of the state, that vengeance for 1871 would have been a factor, but didn't mean to insinuate that many on the Western Front actually remembered the defeat.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: 63ePootis on July 29, 2013, 01:01:42 am
Most people like to state the start of WW1 as 1914. But, really, it was an inevitable boiling-over of tensions caused by the Congress of Vienna in 1814 and 1815. That is what I attribute as the real start, or at least the point where the boulder started rolling towards the inevitable war. The thing is, everyone knew it was coming. Especially those in germany, france, and england. And it was all caused by the fear of the nobility after napoleon's revolution and their futile re-dividing of nation-state lines. Instead of letting the nations do what they need to grow or shrink, they tried to create a self-sustaining system that depended on nations not being greedy. But metternich did not look at human nature, he should have known that nations have an innate desire to grow. And that's what WW1 was. A result of metternich and the congress of vienna, and the foolish nobility. And the result? Hundreds of thousands butchered, an entire generation minced and tattered, smashed against the wall and forever stained. It was one of the worst tragedies in human history: Happy, patriotic, brave young men going for glory in a war they anticipated to be a short little game, and they come back wounded, missing limbs, permenantly blind, and mentally scarred, if they're lucky.

It was the true incarnation of war, shown for what it truly was.

It was hell on earth.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Van_Hulstein on July 29, 2013, 01:30:51 am
In Dutch schoolbooks ie you learn that the Battle of Waterloo is fought between UK and Prussia against the French, nothing mentioned about the Dutch/Belgians.
The Dutch history book is neutral and you could easily say that it can used by any nation.
0% patriotic in other words.

O and the only thing we only learned about WW1 is that 1 million Belgians fleed to Holland, and that that war was useless.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on July 29, 2013, 09:52:18 am

O and the only thing we only learned about WW1 is that 1 million Belgians fleed to Holland, and that that war was useless.

Which is true.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Riddlez on July 29, 2013, 01:29:25 pm
In Dutch schoolbooks ie you learn that the Battle of Waterloo is fought between UK and Prussia against the French, nothing mentioned about the Dutch/Belgians.
The Dutch history book is neutral and you could easily say that it can used by any nation.
0% patriotic in other words.

O and the only thing we only learned about WW1 is that 1 million Belgians fleed to Holland, and that that war was useless.

Our books are so neutral, they nearly say Holland was shit.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on July 29, 2013, 02:27:20 pm
That's harsh to say.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Van_Hulstein on July 29, 2013, 04:50:30 pm
That's harsh to say.
But the truth!
They dont learn us about the VOC because they think we might transform in Slavetraders...
Also we learn about the Roman culture, but not even that we helt them at the rhine!
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Riddlez on July 29, 2013, 05:17:57 pm
That's harsh to say.
but not even that we helt them at the rhine!

How do you know it, then?
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Friedrich on July 29, 2013, 05:57:28 pm
Also we learn about the Roman culture, but not even that we helt them at the rhine!
Rome wasn't really interested what was north of the Rhine mouth. Marsh, swamps & some dwelling hills. The only ressource Rome was taking there was cattle. But the dutch culture is based mostly on roman culture, not on a frisian tribe or something. Your oldest city was foundet by romans. Even your most important german tribe, the Batavi got romanized until the 3rd century. Don't deny your own culture!
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Schmidtche on July 29, 2013, 06:01:26 pm
I remember doing the WWI period mostly as presentations by classmates, aftermath was done of course. It was well needed for all the years of doing WWII and Nazis. (I am also german)

We read "All quiet on the Western Front" though, which I remember sparking the brilliant debate wether 7 pages would be enough to rate a book "boring".
Which was the opinion of many classmates, meanwhile I had read through the whole book in one day.  ;D
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Riddlez on July 29, 2013, 06:52:42 pm
We read "All quiet on the Western Front" though, which I remember sparking the brilliant debate wether 7 pages would be enough to rate a book "boring".
Quote

LOL.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on July 29, 2013, 07:17:16 pm
Also we learn about the Roman culture, but not even that we helt them at the rhine!
Rome wasn't really interested what was north of the Rhine mouth. Marsh, swamps & some dwelling hills. The only ressource Rome was taking there was cattle. But the dutch culture is based mostly on roman culture, not on a frisian tribe or something. Your oldest city was foundet by romans. Even your most important german tribe, the Batavi got romanized until the 3rd century. Don't deny your own culture!

How can a tribe be romanized 'until' a certain era?

That being said, it's undeniable the Romans left a huge-ass mark on Dutch culture - Just like it did on basicy every country that was under (partial) occupation.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Friedrich on July 29, 2013, 07:28:02 pm
Also we learn about the Roman culture, but not even that we helt them at the rhine!
Rome wasn't really interested what was north of the Rhine mouth. Marsh, swamps & some dwelling hills. The only ressource Rome was taking there was cattle. But the dutch culture is based mostly on roman culture, not on a frisian tribe or something. Your oldest city was foundet by romans. Even your most important german tribe, the Batavi got romanized until the 3rd century. Don't deny your own culture!

How can a tribe be romanized 'until' a certain era?
Until all groups of the tribe left their byre-dwelling-settlements and start living in villae rusticae, vici, municipia or coloniae or other roman settlements and "start" living, working and writing like romans did.

How do we know? Rarely through historic sources, more through archeology.
-> Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_(cultural))
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on July 29, 2013, 08:57:16 pm
Vici is a verb.

I know how Romanisation works; but it doesn't suddenly end when the Roman army pulled back. Things changed for the worse, yet, but the effect would stay.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Friedrich on July 29, 2013, 09:22:12 pm
Vicus (plur. Vici) is also a noun. It is a settlement form in the roman empire.

Didn't say it ends. It was just "completed" in this time. The germans gived up their old live form and most traditions. But some of those could last as a romano-celto-germanic cult as the Matrones (Nehalennia as example).
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on July 29, 2013, 09:53:56 pm
They didn't give up their old life styles. That would imply they suddenly stopped being Germans and became Latin-speaking Romans, which they didn't. The romans had an effect on them, yes, but the Batavi never became Romans.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Friedrich on July 29, 2013, 10:15:53 pm
There are no germanic/celtic settlements in Germania Inferior between 0 and 500 AD ! All oppida between Cologne and the coast end in the time under Augustus Caesar. There is no germanic pottery used in this time. No germanic funerals. No germanic weapons. It's all roman! Even the cults with ancient germanic/celtic worshipped Genii (which all started just with the 2nd cenury, more than 100 years after roman occupation) got sacrificed with roman fruits/stuff/pottery!

What you mean is the germanisation through the francs beginning with the 5th century AD.
But the former germanic/celtic culture was absorbed in the roman provinces.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on July 30, 2013, 10:31:32 am
There's a difference between a country that's occupied and a borderregion. The Batavians were never properly in the Roman empire.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Friedrich on July 30, 2013, 10:57:50 am
They fully settled over to the Roman Empire because they were allies (and in a vendetta with other tribes north of the Rhine). Their capital became the Civitas Batavorum, today Nijmegen. It was common practice of Rome to settle allied tribes behind the own border.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on July 30, 2013, 05:13:10 pm
Intresting considering Nijmegen is outside the bataven-Islands.

Anyway, we've gone waaaaaay off-topic.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Friedrich on July 30, 2013, 05:33:27 pm
Did we? Didn't notice! :o
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on July 30, 2013, 06:18:45 pm
We did, even though no-one told us to shut up  :o
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Riddlez on July 30, 2013, 06:51:08 pm
We did, even though no-one told us to shut up  :o

Shut up!
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on July 30, 2013, 06:53:00 pm
We did, even though no-one told us to shut up  :o

Shut up!

You should become a policeman.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Riddlez on July 30, 2013, 06:54:00 pm
We did, even though no-one told us to shut up  :o

Shut up!

You should become a policeman.

Naah.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Johan on August 04, 2013, 12:56:09 pm
The problem with WW1 games is that companies not wanting to make a WW1 based game is not because they barely know anything about it, it's mainly because It's very hard to make a profit from it. It's not really entertaining for some people to play a game where you sit in a trench for months waiting for the enemy to attack, while the enemy does the same thing, called a stalemate.

Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: MaHuD on August 04, 2013, 01:10:20 pm
Intresting considering Nijmegen is outside the bataven-Islands.

Anyway, we've gone waaaaaay off-topic.
Isn't that because it was rebuild after the Batavian Revolt? (Forced to relocate to a less defensible position as punishment for revolting)
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on August 04, 2013, 01:27:30 pm
Intresting considering Nijmegen is outside the bataven-Islands.

Anyway, we've gone waaaaaay off-topic.
Isn't that because it was rebuild after the Batavian Revolt? (Forced to relocate to a less defensible position as punishment for revolting)

I woulnd't know. I don't know that much about the Romans  :P
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: jamiecross on August 05, 2013, 09:43:02 am
The problem with WW1 games is that companies not wanting to make a WW1 based game is not because they barely know anything about it, it's mainly because It's very hard to make a profit from it. It's not really entertaining for some people to play a game where you sit in a trench for months waiting for the enemy to attack, while the enemy does the same thing, called a stalemate.

Well, to be honest WW1 was unique, who cares about the game, I don't know if your British, french or whatever, but these brave men thrown there life's away for the stuff we can do today, well ww2 is more unique in this way but still, standing in a line and getting shot at may be brave but when they charge out of their trenches in ww1, because  the machine gun had recently been invented many many of them died, more people lost their lives in ww1 than the Napoleonic Wars for the shit we can do today, those brave men, despite the Napoleonic wars went on longer, Total KIA, Wounded etc in WW1: 22,477,500, Total Kia Wounded etc in Napoleonic Wars: 3,350,000 to 6,500,000,

I understand a game would be boring, but the point is if we lost this war, the British "Myself" and the French would be speaking German.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Docm30 on August 05, 2013, 10:15:07 am
I understand a game would be boring, but the point is if we lost this war, the British "Myself" and the French would be speaking German.

The French continued to speak French after losing the Franco-Prussian War. What makes you think World War 1 would have been different?
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on August 05, 2013, 10:16:33 am

I understand a game would be boring, but the point is if we lost this war, the British "Myself" and the French would be speaking German.

Don't be ridicious.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: jamiecross on August 05, 2013, 10:42:47 am
I apologize about that, maybe that was wrong lol.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: jamiecross on August 05, 2013, 10:43:33 am
I understand a game would be boring, but the point is if we lost this war, the British "Myself" and the French would be speaking German.

The French continued to speak French after losing the Franco-Prussian War. What makes you think World War 1 would have been different?

Nice mod btw, I been following since mid 2012.

Edit: I don't know much about that war, but if I'm correct they didn't take France they just made it a Republic?
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Docm30 on August 05, 2013, 10:57:14 am
The Third French Republic was created part way through the war when the French people lost faith in the Imperial Government. The main result of the French loss was the German Empire's annexing of Alsace, a territory they had long considered rightfully theirs.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Olafson on August 05, 2013, 11:12:26 am
Yeh, just because Nazi Germany was stupid and simply took everything, does not mean that the German Empire would have done the same.
They captured france 1870-1871, France still exists and they still talk French....
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: zac on August 05, 2013, 11:24:32 am
^
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Schmidtche on August 05, 2013, 12:45:21 pm
The problem with WW1 games is that companies not wanting to make a WW1 based game is not because they barely know anything about it, it's mainly because It's very hard to make a profit from it. It's not really entertaining for some people to play a game where you sit in a trench for months waiting for the enemy to attack, while the enemy does the same thing, called a stalemate.

Well, to be honest WW1 was unique, who cares about the game, I don't know if your British, french or whatever, but these brave men thrown there life's away for the stuff we can do today, well ww2 is more unique in this way but still, standing in a line and getting shot at may be brave but when they charge out of their trenches in ww1, because  the machine gun had recently been invented many many of them died, more people lost their lives in ww1 than the Napoleonic Wars for the shit we can do today, those brave men, despite the Napoleonic wars went on longer, Total KIA, Wounded etc in WW1: 22,477,500, Total Kia Wounded etc in Napoleonic Wars: 3,350,000 to 6,500,000,

I understand a game would be boring, but the point is if we lost this war, the British "Myself" and the French would be speaking German.

I am sorry, but it's well established that WW1 was a war of empires. No one died for "Freedom" in that war, no matter what Propaganda wanted their soliders to believe. I even doubt the borders would have changed that much in western Europe, propably would have had more effects on Africa if anything.

Eastern Europe would propably have been redrawn, but that happened anyway die to the Revolution.

And not even Nazi Germany in WW2 would have annexed more than maybe Alsace-Lorraine again, they hold on to France because there was still a war to fight with the British, of course they would have installed a german-friendly regime like the Vichy one.

The land they wanted to annex was in the east.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: jamiecross on August 05, 2013, 01:33:15 pm
The problem with WW1 games is that companies not wanting to make a WW1 based game is not because they barely know anything about it, it's mainly because It's very hard to make a profit from it. It's not really entertaining for some people to play a game where you sit in a trench for months waiting for the enemy to attack, while the enemy does the same thing, called a stalemate.

Well, to be honest WW1 was unique, who cares about the game, I don't know if your British, french or whatever, but these brave men thrown there life's away for the stuff we can do today, well ww2 is more unique in this way but still, standing in a line and getting shot at may be brave but when they charge out of their trenches in ww1, because  the machine gun had recently been invented many many of them died, more people lost their lives in ww1 than the Napoleonic Wars for the shit we can do today, those brave men, despite the Napoleonic wars went on longer, Total KIA, Wounded etc in WW1: 22,477,500, Total Kia Wounded etc in Napoleonic Wars: 3,350,000 to 6,500,000,

I understand a game would be boring, but the point is if we lost this war, the British "Myself" and the French would be speaking German.

I am sorry, but it's well established that WW1 was a war of empires. No one died for "Freedom" in that war, no matter what Propaganda wanted their soliders to believe. I even doubt the borders would have changed that much in western Europe, propably would have had more effects on Africa if anything.

Eastern Europe would propably have been redrawn, but that happened anyway die to the Revolution.

And not even Nazi Germany in WW2 would have annexed more than maybe Alsace-Lorraine again, they hold on to France because there was still a war to fight with the British, of course they would have installed a german-friendly regime like the Vichy one.

The land they wanted to annex was in the east.

I might be thinking about ww2 and I apologize for my 100th mistake, but they were fighting to keep freedom in ww2 and not let Nazis take control of England.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Schmidtche on August 05, 2013, 04:21:50 pm
Well it's safe to say a german victory would have installed fascist regimes in all of Europe, so yes that one was for Freedom. (Though I stand by my point that no democatic state would have interfered in a Nazi-Communist war, if Poland had not been in the way, but that's a discussion for  the other Thread)

Though way too many people like to think Germany would have annexed everything, hence the "speaking german" phrase, which is of course wrong. It would have been english Nazis and french Nazis ruling their countrys, controlled by Berlin. Just like Moscow controlled eastern Europe in reality.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Olafson on August 06, 2013, 03:25:20 pm
Pfff. A war between states is not a war for freedom. A civil war is a war for freedom. 


Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on August 06, 2013, 03:53:40 pm
Pfff. A war between states is not a war for freedom. A civil war is a war for freedom.

The American civil war is sometimes referred to as the War between the States...
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Schmidtche on August 06, 2013, 08:22:41 pm
Pfff. A war between states is not a war for freedom. A civil war is a war for freedom.

I think you might mean "revolution" in this case. A civil war can be between two warlords/kings/whatever fighting over who can oppress the people.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Landrik on August 15, 2013, 10:15:29 am
To the guy who had the small gift of watching the '30s "All Quiet on the Western Front" it far outstrips the 70s one.

When I learned about WWI I learned about Germany's message to Mexico and the sinking of the Lusitania which brought us to war and our little contributions at Bellau Wood and such. Also talked about the machinegun, tank, airplane, and gas revolutionizing warfare and how it killed many people. Also went over Wilson's 14 points (pretty moot considering they weren't accepted) and just mentioned the Treaty of Versailles. Take your test. Fin.

Didn't go over how Germany said it was going to sink everything in British waters because of all of the snuck-in war materials and we pretty much brought it on ourselves. Didn't go over how our people really didn't want to go to war and "let the Europeans have their silly wars", but our president Wilson wanted in on the action desperately.

I pretty much made up 1/3 of the WWII learning material my class went over as a deal with my teacher to save my grade. (I was a lazy degenerate at the time)
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Olafson on August 15, 2013, 06:44:38 pm
Pfff. A war between states is not a war for freedom. A civil war is a war for freedom.

I think you might mean "revolution" in this case. A civil war can be between two warlords/kings/whatever fighting over who can oppress the people.

Yeah, I guess I mean revolution. I meant something that starts and is lead by the people, not by some leader, or state.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Humlenerd on August 15, 2013, 08:16:10 pm
Pfff. A war between states is not a war for freedom. A civil war is a war for freedom.

I think you might mean "revolution" in this case. A civil war can be between two warlords/kings/whatever fighting over who can oppress the people.

Yeah, I guess I mean revolution. I meant something that starts and is lead by the people, not by some leader, or state.
And what if it's a war between different ethnicities or a  majority with strong hatred against a minority?  :o
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Desert Thunda on August 15, 2013, 09:45:55 pm
Pfff. A war between states is not a war for freedom. A civil war is a war for freedom.

I think you might mean "revolution" in this case. A civil war can be between two warlords/kings/whatever fighting over who can oppress the people.

Yeah, I guess I mean revolution. I meant something that starts and is lead by the people, not by some leader, or state.
And what if it's a war between different ethnicities or a  majority with strong hatred against a minority?  :o

Slaughter?  or perhaps a purge.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Allasaphore on August 16, 2013, 12:04:02 am
Spoiler
Pfff. A war between states is not a war for freedom. A civil war is a war for freedom.

I think you might mean "revolution" in this case. A civil war can be between two warlords/kings/whatever fighting over who can oppress the people.

Yeah, I guess I mean revolution. I meant something that starts and is lead by the people, not by some leader, or state.
And what if it's a war between different ethnicities or a  majority with strong hatred against a minority?  :o
[close]

Genocide may be the term you're looking for there.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Prince_Eugen on August 17, 2013, 08:17:10 am
Not the genocide, not the purge, only slaughter.
Using gas is about battlefield tactics, as long as this is a war. During Russian Civil War forces of entante invaded South and North of Russian Empire, they actively used gas, but they used it not only against Red Army but against civilians, here we can see purge. And genocide mostly is the trait of the WWII.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on August 17, 2013, 10:42:50 am
Ehm, the Armenian genocide?
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Prince_Eugen on August 17, 2013, 11:03:10 am
Ehm, the Armenian genocide?
What do you mean?
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Duuring on August 17, 2013, 12:04:06 pm
And genocide mostly is the trait of the WWII.

It isn't. That's what I mean.
Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: bdd458 on September 20, 2013, 06:12:11 am
My teachers barely mentioned it, although I'm not surprised seeing as USA did little. We usually talk about American revolution, Texas/USA war with Mexico, and ACW. Very little WW1, WW2, and no Napoleonic Wars.

Nationalism all the way.

'Cos all that happened outside of the USA, just ain't important.
Seriously, this attitude is freaking annoying. "Oh, well because it happened outside of the US and they don't talk about it in a US history class it must not be important because it's not 'MERICA!!!!!".

In my AP US History Course we had to cover 300 years of history in about 8 months, with 4 classes a week, at about 50 minutes a class. That doesn't include test days, and days off. When the focus of the class is US History, do you REALLY expect to talk about every little thing that goes on in the world? No. It's impossible. We had to go indepth into a lot of this stuff, remembering a lot of laws, senators, representatives, factions, movements, etc...

To put it in perspective, we spent about 2 days on the US Civil War. (So more or less 100 minutes).  Same for WWI. Civil Rights was 2 days, Vietnam 1. Even then we had no time to go into battles and stuff because there was so much more we had to cover.

Glad though in my AP Euro class this year we're going to be spending a good chunk of time on WWI, and I actually asked my teacher today if we're going to be doing an "expert day" on WWI (It's where we get a topic and get to be experts on it, since my specialty is WWI, I had to ask. And we are! You can switch topics with other groups and such as well :P)

After that we watched this horrible 1979 version of "All quite on the western front". Thats all we did.
Do you have no appreciation of Richard Thomas! Shamefur Dispray. Though, I have a deep love of the orignal as well. But the book will forever be my favorite. Though, the 1979 TV Movie version follows the events as the book did them better. More flashback type things.

Pfff. A war between states is not a war for freedom. A civil war is a war for freedom.

The American civil war is sometimes referred to as the War between the States...
Because the US is made up of States?

It's not really entertaining for some people to play a game where you sit in a trench for months waiting for the enemy to attack, while the enemy does the same thing, called a stalemate.
It's not really entertaining to play a game where you sit in a truck or boat, or whatever for a while than make camp.

Oh right, we skip to the action parts of the war. There was a lot to The First World War. The initial, grandiose Conventional phase, the Trench Era (new tactics such as raiding were developed here), and even mobility at the end.

Can't wait for The Trench: 1916, going to be a fantastic FPS.

Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Archduke Sven on September 20, 2013, 12:33:08 pm
If people enjoy games which involve large charges and huge amounts of slaughter... Why hasn't there been a proper game about the 2nd Sino-Japanese war?

Title: Re: Anyone else feel WWI doesn't receive the attention it deserves?
Post by: Mathias on September 20, 2013, 11:44:47 pm
If people enjoy games which involve large charges and huge amounts of slaughter... Why hasn't there been a proper game about the 2nd Sino-Japanese war?
IK it was a slaughtering war, but we Americanos no like that kind of Chinese vs Japanese war... Also I am asian of none of the listed nationalities ):