Bugs, feedback and suggestions.

[Willhelm]

- Marines: Give them a pilum. Just one. Marines did use pilums, and even had hasta's and gladius's.

We're going to give them a pila but we don't want them to have a gladius to increase the amount of spear infantry.

This is why I suggested to have an option for it. If people want to play Marines, but not use a spear, have the option to choose between the hasta or gladius, or add a pugio on the back up with a hasta.

- Ghost reach: Spears have ridiculous ghost reach, and because of that, they also glance where they shouldn't.

After significant testing i still have no reason to believe there is a ghost reach, i have even made a video, the spear hits when the mesh hits. The glancing is caused by stabbing too close, which happens with all spears and even swords when you attempt to stab at less than half range i believe, plus the chance is increased by the enemy armour value.

I don't know how you don't see the ghost reach. And, a lot of people were complaining about it too. It's not just on spears, but the gladius and pugio as well. The Pugio has the reach of the gladius, the gladius has the reach of the NW infantry officer sword, and the spear seems to hit about a foot farther than its actual reach (for the hasta, that is).

If people want to use the marines they will have to use the spear, we can't give every weapon to every unit because people want to play with a certain weapon with a certain unit. Our marines are spear infantry because so many other units have swords, if we give them swords, there is only 1 other dedicated spear unit on the populates team, and some people have already suggesting giving them swords as well... So we are sticking with 2 dedicated spear units.

Here is a video proving there is no ghost reach
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qNgaYxVlx0[/youtube]
I assure you all weapon lengths are correct and damage is only caused once the mesh hits the enemy. The reason people may feel there is a ghost reach is due to the new animation having a further reach than the old one, but nonetheless the reach is still accurate to the weapons mesh length.

[kpetschulat]

Then we must be experiencing lag, because I have hit people, and been hit by them, about a foot or two out of the range of hasta. In regard to the marines, Idk why you guys are taking away from them what they used. Marines were given a hasta, pila, and a pugio. The officers had a gladius and a scutum. Some marines were not even given shield, they were given axes, similar to the rumiges unit in the mod. Again, I suggest just making an option of a hasta, pugio, or gladius for all the marine units, excluding the rumiges.

[Mailman653]

In regard to the marines, Idk why you guys are taking away from them what they used. Marines were given a hasta, pila, and a pugio. The officers had a gladius and a scutum. Some marines were not even given shield, they were given axes, similar to the rumiges unit in the mod. Again, I suggest just making an option of a hasta, pugio, or gladius for all the marine units, excluding the rumiges.

I have an interest in the naval infantry due to the fact that I pushed for them to be in BC and they were the first units to be created for the mod, we'll take the suggestions into advisement.

[The Norseman]

Also apparently one single non.fire arrow can kill you if it hits your feet.

[Mailman653]

Also apparently one single non.fire arrow can kill you if it hits your feet.

Generally speaking, I've seen people die Achilles style, it's quite amusing!

[Aksei]

first of all, its an amazing work and for the fact of a first release, the balance is ok. The class system is nice designed and brings a good variation for the 2 factions. The strong downattack sometimes feels strange, but i think people get used to it and as it was the main attack at this time it should be that powerfull. The Pilas in my opinion are perfectly made into the game. Overall the mod is fun to play including plenty historical facts, respect for that. The most developers cant reach both. Also it seems the focus is teamplay what i personel like.

Well, lets move on to the balance stuff. Some you already know, but i still put them in the list

Fire Arrows:
- Too much damage, maybe reduce it and increase the explosion radius

Cretan Archers:
- too fast. Instead fighting ranged, the players use them for hit and run tactics. Also its hard to kill them with an arrow or javelin, because they are so fast

Scout Cav + Mumibia Cav:
- maybe slower them a bit, it feels like im on a NW admin horse^^

Numibia Speer/Unit:
- The speer is really good and in combo with the speed of the unit too strong

Ballista:
- unfortunatly gameplay should beat realism here. The damage it deals makes it the killer of every formation

But again, overall i think the balance is ok for first release 

[MaHuD]

Lovely mod, here is some of my constructive criticism/ideas/suggestions or whatever you want to call it;

Ballista

• The hitbox of the Ballista missile is way too big. For the ballista crewmember this is both a curse and a blessing, a blessing because it's so damn easy to hit people. A curse because you can team kill someone who is just standing next to the Ballista.
• The ballista missile can go through a large variety of scene props, and I don't think that that should be the case.
• It is really hard to see where the ballista missile is at long range. Sure you can see if you got a kill or not, but one cannot see at all where it landed which makes it hard to adjust.
• Ballistas are killing formations quite easily and quite efficiently, whilst I understand that that was their purpose I don't think it should be this powerful for gameplay purposes. I would rather have several ballistas being this powerful (especially since they only need 1 crew member) than a single OP ballista. I think it would be better if the ballista had a hard cap on the amount of people or objects it could hit. Say if it hit an entire formation, it shouldn't be able to kill the entire formation but instead say only about 3 people. This way, a team can use more ballistas without it being OP and another added bonus is that they can then use more teamwork to try and annihilate an enemy formation.

Infantry

• Shields break way too fast in my opinion, just a few arrows and it goes down. Fire arrows are not even remotely needed at the moment, since the shields don't protect that much anyway.

Archers

• All archers can run faster than infantry which makes most of them just skirmish you till you die. Given the previous issue, that your shield doesn't keep up for long, that skirmishing is rather successful and thus doesn't really take a lot of time and is hardly a hassle for them.
• Cretan Archers seem to be a downgrade, they have less armour, a melee weapon that usually only glances and from what I have seen almost no other difference from the standard archer unit. They don't particular seem faster and even if they are that doesn't really matter that much since the normal archers are also faster than other classes. No need to be even faster, unless you want to run from other archers which would be silly. I think that they should gain either an increase in accuracy or an increase in damage / range.
• Arrows just turn invisible or something after a short range, I can't see where they land. Which makes them not very useful at range, they are more of a close combat support weapon right now.

Fire Arrows

• They are insanely OP. They have only two downsides, one is that they have 50 percent less ammo the other is that you also hurt teammates if you shoot an enemy engaged in close melee. 15 arrows is more than enough to get at least 3 kills by just hitting people on their shield and there is not much they can do against it. Pilla's aren't very accurate to throw and the archers are fast enough to easily dodge in and out of combat. Enemy cavalry? No sweat, one or two arrows and the horse is dead a third when he is down on the floor and voila you got another kill.
• My suggestion would be to completely remove the AOE effect and instead make them more powerful against shields, so that they break faster. Alternatively, limit the fire arrows to a specific spot. For instance, the Engineer needs to build a brazier and the archers have to stand near it in order to get the fire effect on their arrows.

Assassin
In my opinion The assassin class suffers from three primary problems; (Also, 1st person looks horrible )

• 1)~ It's weapon. It is completely useless, does almost no damage and is incredibly short. It's only good thing is that it's very fast. But that doesn't really help if you only glance at most people. Against unarmoured people I still need to hit them between 3 to 4 times. (That is presuming one gets to surprise backstab)
• 2)~ Speed, it has the same speed as a slinger. I think an assassin should be the fastest class on foot, since he has to constantly flank, hide, and try to backstab people. If someone can just run away from him it's a bit silly.
• 3)~ His clothes. The colours of his clothes just stands out waaay too much. Can't be very sneaky with those colours.
• I think that the Assassin should get a unique dagger that cannot be picked up after dropped (too high STR requirement) with some actual damage behind it. Having a short range on the weapon should be one of it's intended weaknesses, so it shouldn't be encouraged to loot better weapons on the battlefield.
• Having green, grey or brown colour clothing would be much better, with maybe a head, shoulder or arm band with the color blue or red to see which team he is on.
• I think that it It should either gain more speed, or a small amount of thowing daggers that it can use to kill those that run away.

Horses

• Horses seem to die really fast with either 1 or 2 hits of almost anything. I think a very slight increase in either their health or armor should be good. Increasing it too much though would unbalance the situation when there is too many cavalry at one place.

PS: Elephants suck, they have no damage!

[Emperor Napoleon]

Maybe making the part beneath the main deck on the Triremes hollow, so you can go into it. If thats at all possible.

To add, is it possible to make the boats float higher, as at the moment water is in the bottom of 'em and it looks a bit shabby.

[Willhelm]

Lovely mod, here is some of my constructive criticism/ideas/suggestions or whatever you want to call it;

Ballista

• The hitbox of the Ballista missile is way too big. For the ballista crewmember this is both a curse and a blessing, a blessing because it's so damn easy to hit people. A curse because you can team kill someone who is just standing next to the Ballista.
• The ballista missile can go through a large variety of scene props, and I don't think that that should be the case.
• It is really hard to see where the ballista missile is at long range. Sure you can see if you got a kill or not, but one cannot see at all where it landed which makes it hard to adjust.
• Ballistas are killing formations quite easily and quite efficiently, whilst I understand that that was their purpose I don't think it should be this powerful for gameplay purposes. I would rather have several ballistas being this powerful (especially since they only need 1 crew member) than a single OP ballista. I think it would be better if the ballista had a hard cap on the amount of people or objects it could hit. Say if it hit an entire formation, it shouldn't be able to kill the entire formation but instead say only about 3 people. This way, a team can use more ballistas without it being OP and another added bonus is that they can then use more teamwork to try and annihilate an enemy formation.

Infantry

• Shields break way too fast in my opinion, just a few arrows and it goes down. Fire arrows are not even remotely needed at the moment, since the shields don't protect that much anyway.

Archers

• All archers can run faster than infantry which makes most of them just skirmish you till you die. Given the previous issue, that your shield doesn't keep up for long, that skirmishing is rather successful and thus doesn't really take a lot of time and is hardly a hassle for them.
• Cretan Archers seem to be a downgrade, they have less armour, a melee weapon that usually only glances and from what I have seen almost no other difference from the standard archer unit. They don't particular seem faster and even if they are that doesn't really matter that much since the normal archers are also faster than other classes. No need to be even faster, unless you want to run from other archers which would be silly. I think that they should gain either an increase in accuracy or an increase in damage / range.
• Arrows just turn invisible or something after a short range, I can't see where they land. Which makes them not very useful at range, they are more of a close combat support weapon right now.

Fire Arrows

• They are insanely OP. They have only two downsides, one is that they have 50 percent less ammo the other is that you also hurt teammates if you shoot an enemy engaged in close melee. 15 arrows is more than enough to get at least 3 kills by just hitting people on their shield and there is not much they can do against it. Pilla's aren't very accurate to throw and the archers are fast enough to easily dodge in and out of combat. Enemy cavalry? No sweat, one or two arrows and the horse is dead a third when he is down on the floor and voila you got another kill.
• My suggestion would be to completely remove the AOE effect and instead make them more powerful against shields, so that they break faster. Alternatively, limit the fire arrows to a specific spot. For instance, the Engineer needs to build a brazier and the archers have to stand near it in order to get the fire effect on their arrows.

Assassin
In my opinion The assassin class suffers from three primary problems; (Also, 1st person looks horrible )

• 1)~ It's weapon. It is completely useless, does almost no damage and is incredibly short. It's only good thing is that it's very fast. But that doesn't really help if you only glance at most people. Against unarmoured people I still need to hit them between 3 to 4 times. (That is presuming one gets to surprise backstab)
• 2)~ Speed, it has the same speed as a slinger. I think an assassin should be the fastest class on foot, since he has to constantly flank, hide, and try to backstab people. If someone can just run away from him it's a bit silly.
• 3)~ His clothes. The colours of his clothes just stands out waaay too much. Can't be very sneaky with those colours.
• I think that the Assassin should get a unique dagger that cannot be picked up after dropped (too high STR requirement) with some actual damage behind it. Having a short range on the weapon should be one of it's intended weaknesses, so it shouldn't be encouraged to loot better weapons on the battlefield.
• Having green, grey or brown colour clothing would be much better, with maybe a head, shoulder or arm band with the color blue or red to see which team he is on.
• I think that it It should either gain more speed, or a small amount of thowing daggers that it can use to kill those that run away.

Horses

• Horses seem to die really fast with either 1 or 2 hits of almost anything. I think a very slight increase in either their health or armor should be good. Increasing it too much though would unbalance the situation when there is too many cavalry at one place.

PS: Elephants suck, they have no damage!

This is good criticism, but some of it seems very contradictory from a lot of other criticism we have gotten. For example it's been heavily reported that Cav has too much HP and armour, and that the cretan archers are too powerful. Also the assassin isn't an assassin, he is a priest of mars, added more as a fun unit, but if people are thinking its an assassin we will consider buffing him.

[MaHuD]

Maybe I should have been a bit clearer, but I too think that archers in general are too strong at the moment.
What I was talking about was the difference between the standard archer and the cretan archers.

Cretan Archers seem to be a downgrade, they have less armour, a melee weapon that usually only glances and from what I have seen almost no other difference from the standard archer unit. They don't particular seem faster and even if they are that doesn't really matter that much since the normal archers are also faster than other classes. No need to be even faster, unless you want to run from other archers which would be silly. I think that they should gain either an increase in accuracy or an increase in damage / range.

I am not implying that they are weak, rather I am implying that they are weaker than a standard archer (Who does the same things but better and even has the option to take fire arrows)

Overall I find that all the archers run way too fast and that shields in general are too weak.

Priest of Mars, ah that's cool. I totally didn't see that coming though. Maybe they should give a bonus to nearby troops then? If they do a sacrifice? (A one time during round thingy)


As for the horses, I have mostly played as a ranged unit and found myself actually seeking out enemy cav. Trying to bait them into attacking me so I could headshot the horse once or twice and get a free kill or at the least a dismounted enemy cav in the distance.
I have not played as horseman a terrible lot, but I got the same impression when I played one that it died quite fast.
As Infantry, I had great trouble with killing the horse by using only gladus (even a spear was troublesome), the Pila's on the other hand instakilled them.

[Mailman653]

Ha ha ha....a sacrifice. Wish we could code that in somehow. 

[Gokiller]

That "Priest" class is more usefull as an assassin slot. It is the only fun-use-thing I have on that class seeing for the rest it's complete useless.

[Willhelm]

It will now be an assassin in the next patch.

[Mailman653]

It will now be an assassin in the next patch.

I can totally see a priest of Mars being one.

[Colonel Howe]

Anytime I enter a server, then select a team, then pick a class and then try to spawn, I get auto-kicked for "cheating". Its anytime I spawn though. I don't use any "cheats" yet it still happens. I have tried exiting and re-entering and I've tried deleting profiles. This has not proven fruitful. I tried to spawn on both the GCG server and the Naval battle server, both led to the same result.