Author Topic: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?  (Read 5238 times)

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Offline Colbac

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Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« on: October 22, 2013, 12:37:06 am »
I googled it but couldn't find anything. I'm guessing that either a)they didn't want Leipzig to be harmed in anyway if the French lost or b) They thought the French were going to loose. If anyone knows the answer, I'd appreciate it.

btw the only reason why I'm asking is because, well, I'm curious to know the answer. :D


Offline Vincenzo

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2013, 01:00:52 pm »
As I heard it, The French were loosing, and imagine an army of angry Prussian, Russian and Austrian soldiers standing on your birthground possibly treatening to sack your whole country when the French loose and retreated back to France...

They basically switched to the winner side in the hopes of not having their family raped and country sacked.

Offline GoldenEagle

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2013, 06:03:17 pm »
TIL: Never make someone weak your ally.

Offline Allasaphore

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2013, 06:09:14 pm »
By 1813, Napoleonic France is in decline (or at least badly weakened from the 1812 Invasion of Russia). I'd assume that Saxony switched sides (much like the Kingdom of Naples, in my understanding) to minimize post-war territorial losses to their neighbors (of course the Prussians still receive a huge chunk of Saxony after the war).

Offline Duuring

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2013, 06:24:01 pm »
TIL: Never make someone weak your ally.

Saxony, Bavaria and Westphalia were Napoleons strongest German allies. Both Saxony and Bavaria betrayed him because they could get a better deal, Westphalia was simply overran.

Offline GoldenEagle

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2013, 07:06:22 pm »
TIL: Never make someone weak your ally.

Saxony, Bavaria and Westphalia were Napoleons strongest German allies. Both Saxony and Bavaria betrayed him because they could get a better deal, Westphalia was simply overran.

Do you mean military strong or like in friendship strong?

Offline Mr T

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2013, 07:12:32 pm »
Bit of both I suppose, though none of the German allies appreciated the rates of conscription imposed by the French, but they still owed a lot to Napoleon by raising their nation's standing, and Bavaria and France had a history of friendship.

I heard that the King of Saxony did not order the defection at Leipzig, he had nearly defected to the allies before Leipzig but changed his mind as there was still the chance of the Empire surviving, and to avoid the wrath of Napoleon, but his men thought different at Leipzig after first days of fighting. The King of Saxony was arrested I think after Leipzig and reinstated to the throne two years after, chunks of his kingdom were annexed to Prussia I believe.


Offline Millander

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2013, 07:14:33 pm »
Yeah conscription , The invasion of Russia and the Continental system probably made allot of the Rhine nation not very happy with Napoleon.
Of course, I also think lines should be able to move in double rank without having emotional breakdowns.

Offline Archduke Sven

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2013, 08:41:44 pm »
Because Saxony was just a small little country in Germany who just wanted self preservation and acted in the most dishonorable way one ally can, betray the alliance. Saxony owed a lot to France, it wouldn't even be a proper Kingdom without France, Saxony prospered, and all it had to do in exchange was to provide soldiers to France.

It was cowardly and defeatist to turn on France on the eve of the battle, however i do not blame them, i would probably have done the same. However i wouldn't want to live with the legacy of being a leader of a turncoat nation.


told that bih don't @ me

Offline Millander

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2013, 12:05:28 am »
However i wouldn't want to live with the legacy of being a leader of a turncoat nation.
Better to be a nation that a new territory in a foreign vengeful nation.
Of course, I also think lines should be able to move in double rank without having emotional breakdowns.

Offline Allasaphore

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2013, 12:14:29 am »
However i wouldn't want to live with the legacy of being a leader of a turncoat nation.
Better to be a nation that a new territory in a foreign vengeful nation.

Or to be a leader in exile (say we'll move him to Mauritius), never to set foot on your home soil again or lead your people because of your pride.

Offline Archduke Sven

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2013, 09:10:20 am »
However i wouldn't want to live with the legacy of being a leader of a turncoat nation.
Better to be a nation that a new territory in a foreign vengeful nation.

Or to be a leader in exile (say we'll move him to Mauritius), never to set foot on your home soil again or lead your people because of your pride.

I still wouldn't want to have the legacy of being a turncoat and a defeatist.


told that bih don't @ me

Offline Docm30

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2013, 09:21:15 am »
Well, the leader of a nation's job is to do what's best for his people, regardless of how it reflects on him personally. Prussia made their hatred of Saxony very clear and would probably have wanted to completely dismantle their Saxon enemies after the war. Saxony's only choice, though cowardly, was to change sides.

Offline Hadhod

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2013, 02:56:42 am »
Contrary to what you guys think, Saxony was not an ally of Napoleon, it was kind of a vassal. They had to lend France troops which marched with him into Russia. In 1812 I think at the battle of Borodino (not sure though, could have been something else) Napoleon didn't want to waste his own troops to charge against a heavily fortified position of the Russian/Prussian allies. Hence he sent in wave after wave of Saxon cuirassiers (the best Cavalry at that time) to crush them. The saxons got totally beaten up and lost nearly all men. It was similar with most of the infantry regiments. One of my ancestors served as a Grenadier under Napoleon and he was one of the mere 50 survivors of a Regiment which oiginally consisted of more than 3000 men.
The saxons were still in anger of that at the Battle of Nations. Additionally the force of the Allies was by far outnumbering the French. So why would you fight against your own folk rather than against your opressor?

Offline Duuring

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Re: Why did Saxony betray Napoleon in the Battle of Nations?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2013, 10:49:40 am »
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They had to lend France troops which marched with him into Russia.

So did Austria and Prussia.

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Napoleon didn't want to waste his own troops to charge against a heavily fortified position of the Russian/Prussian allies.

Napoleon has directed several assaults against the fortified positions at Borodino, with both French and foreign troops. Prussian troops, which were on the French and not on the Russian side, were not present at Borodino, except for some light cavalry under French command. The attack of the cavalry was not ordered until the fortifications were so badly mauled by continuous assaults that cavalry could simply ride over it.

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Hence he sent in wave after wave of Saxon cuirassiers

As well as French Cuirassiers and other cavalry. The Saxon regiments got fame for the attack, but they were certainly not the only ones charging.

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the saxons got totally beaten up and lost nearly all men

They took serious casualties, even though you do not specify the amount, but you left out the parts where the French (and all troops at Borodino)did too, as well as taking the positions. The attack, however costly, was a success.

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The saxons were still in anger of that at the Battle of Nations.

So you are saying the Saxons were very angry at Napoleon, yet stayed trustworthy allies for over a year, while Austria and Prussia abandoned him?