The Prussians at Waterloo

[Duuring]

It's probably true that without the Prussian help, Wellington's lines would have collapsed. And let's be honest, the British back then did like to think they defeated Napoleon single-handedly.

It was mostly Wellingtons doing. Most British officers just seemed to follow his story of the battle, because he was idiolized.

I alwayd wondered what the Prussian opinion on Wellington was? Dutch soldiers and low officers simply didn't really like nor really hate him, while most higher officers were admirers of the Duke. Chassé being the exception.

[Kator Viridian]

It's probably true that without the Prussian help, Wellington's lines would have collapsed. And let's be honest, the British back then did like to think they defeated Napoleon single-handedly.

It was mostly Wellingtons doing. Most British officers just seemed to follow his story of the battle, because he was idiolized.

I alwayd wondered what the Prussian opinion on Wellington was? Dutch soldiers and low officers simply didn't really like nor really hate him, while most higher officers were admirers of the Duke. Chassé being the exception.

Well ... Wellington was the Commander-and-Cheif of the British army so have a guess who the best person to preach to and look up to is if you are a British officer? Although Wellington instigated most of the actions that followed it would be evident you can make the assumption that if you wanted to go places you would back his over patriotism or be branded elsewhere. You can find this happening in other parts of History for Example Elizabeth I ... while most see her a petty woman she had a pretty bad temper and if you got on her bad side would see lands and rights stripped from your very body, but be extremely good to her and you get the opposite effect ... much would seem to apply here, suck up to Wellington and you get somewhere, if you don't ... well prepare for the Traitor branding.

Quite simple to understand really, people in power were never afraid to show or use it to how they wimmed, and it was much better to be on the good side than the bad side.

There is quite a good effect for this "Milgrams Obediance to Authority Experiment", you do what your told because you trust a person of Authority no matter what they tell you to do. I would suggest looking it up.

[Duuring]

There was a guy (also named Siborne) who did a research which was actually far more true then Wellingtons ones. Then Wellington pushed him so far until he let the version go.

The guy had no career after this, of course.

[Docm30]

I wouldn't say he had no career after that. He continued to write and publish books, collect letters that would later be published by his son and he even continued his military career.

[Duuring]

I never got really into the guy, but wasn't his highest rank ever achieved lieutenant-colonel of some yeomandry?

[Docm30]

Should he have been given a better position? by the time he finished his model he was in his 40's and had no combat experience. I'd say it's a damned good thing he wasn't given a proper position in the military.

[Duuring]

Should he have been given a better position? by the time he finished his model he was in his 40's and had no combat experience. I'd say it's a damned good thing he wasn't given a proper position in the military.

Not that the British army always used logic when giving out commands or appointing commanders. I point at the Chassé-case.

[Docm30]

Can you blame Wellington for distrusting a general that had just recently giving exemplary service in Napoleon's army?

[Duuring]

Yes. Considering 90% of the Dutch officers corps consisted of veterans from the French army, and most of the ones that didn't screwed up. Look at Boreel, for example.

It's also not that he didn't trust them, he simply didn't like him. And Chassé didn't like Wellington - the two really couldn't be in the same room at the same time. I suppose Wellington couldn't stand a man that had beaten the British army a few times. I've always wondered what would have happened if the aggressive Chassé had been given command of the I Corps as senior Dutch general, instead of the Prince. I mean, a 50 year old veteran with four decades of military service would be a better candidate then a 23-year old with a few years of staff service.

[Docm30]

I don't think that either of us can really say we understand what he felt when forced to serve alongside someone he had previously fought bitterly against.

[Duuring]

Many of the Dutch officers and soldiers don't seem to mind fighting alongside the British. In letters they tend to dislike the French for once again invading their country and see the British as their allies in that war. I've seen a book where a light infantry officer praises the British steady lines with strong words. Not that he fought against the British, but still.

Still, Chassé will be my all-time favorite general. He was beloved by his troops for his patriarchal character and praised by his superiors for his courage and aggressiveness, which is more then Wellington can say. The snob.

[Dekkers]

Well done on all of this! I might start reading tomorrow if I feel like doing it :p, it is quite some information you've gathered there

[Kator Viridian]

Many of the Dutch officers and soldiers don't seem to mind fighting alongside the British. In letters they tend to dislike the French for once again invading their country and see the British as their allies in that war. I've seen a book where a light infantry officer praises the British steady lines with strong words. Not that he fought against the British, but still.

Still, Chassé will be my all-time favorite general. He was beloved by his troops for his patriarchal character and praised by his superiors for his courage and aggressiveness, which is more then Wellington can say. The snob.

Not that your taking a biased here ...

[Duuring]

Many of the Dutch officers and soldiers don't seem to mind fighting alongside the British. In letters they tend to dislike the French for once again invading their country and see the British as their allies in that war. I've seen a book where a light infantry officer praises the British steady lines with strong words. Not that he fought against the British, but still.

Still, Chassé will be my all-time favorite general. He was beloved by his troops for his patriarchal character and praised by his superiors for his courage and aggressiveness, which is more then Wellington can say. The snob.

Not that your taking a biased here ...

I'm not sure what you mean. 

[Kator Viridian]

Many of the Dutch officers and soldiers don't seem to mind fighting alongside the British. In letters they tend to dislike the French for once again invading their country and see the British as their allies in that war. I've seen a book where a light infantry officer praises the British steady lines with strong words. Not that he fought against the British, but still.

Still, Chassé will be my all-time favorite general. He was beloved by his troops for his patriarchal character and praised by his superiors for his courage and aggressiveness, which is more then Wellington can say. The snob.

Not that your taking a biased here ...

I'm not sure what you mean. 

I'm pretty sure we all know your deep seated hatred for British culture at this point in time for some unbeknown reason, Wellington did his job and did it pretty well, afterall if he was a bad leader with a lack of Agressiveness or courage do you not think he would of gotten through the Peninsula campaign? or even been successful in his earlier campaigns in India. Nwo even though i'm British myself I can happily see his downsides as a man he seemed to be wanting to go further in live and seemed to strive way over his board.

Probably the reason for Picking the Prince over Chassé was for quite simple reasons, history itself. The British had come from a long line where the ruler of said country would always be on the battle lines, and would often commit their sons to Vanguards or leading head on cavalry. The point of the Prince at the head of the army was to show solidarity of the Dutch peoples and that there should be no surrender unless great indignity to ones own leader.

Wellington was much higher up in the world than Chassé, I don't see why he should of been praising him from his point of view Wellington had fought against him, to Wellington and would be the British way of thinking at the time he was a "Traitor/Turncoat". This was just the way of thinking at the time, unfortunatly you cannot judge it with morality of today vs morality of the past.

The British comes from a proud background and still holds it up even today, people who flick sides are still treated with suspician. If you want to follow the moralities of today you can happily say Chassé went behind Wellingtons back to get approval from his second in command attempting to get recognition ... not that the Prince of Orange could of put him forward too?

Arthur Wellesley was very much a politicial man if you look at his later career, so it would of been evident in his actions his tendancy was towards such even before he started to run for offices. Was this a way of securing his mark on history? or had he already accomplished this? well we'd never really know unless we changed history around a bit but its there now and nothing can be done.

Was Arthur a snob? no not really he just managed to fit into the state of political ploy as of which is employed today in all current states.