Author Topic: False histories. What irks you the most?  (Read 57477 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2013, 10:45:37 am »
Wellingtons political career fully depended on his military campaigns. He became Prime Minister, after all. It doesn't help if you say that your victory was gained by a bunch of Dutch and Germans.

Offline Tali

  • First Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 747
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2013, 11:06:29 am »
The armenian genocide thing that have given us Turks bad name. I just know, by my heart, that no organized Turkish soldier would so such thing. Its just not in our blood to do so. If they had said : Turkish soldiers killed 2000 or something men, then ok, but they claim that Turkish soldiers killed 1 500 000 people including women and children, and there is no proof for it and most historians say them selves that there wasn't that many armenians living in Armenia in that time.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/turkey/TT3JLVRCDTJ5BB8D5

Spoiler
Spoiler
"Turkey initiated a policy of annihilation against the Armenians."
Paul von Hindenburg, German Field Marshall in the Ottoman Empire during WWI, From My Life, Leipzig, (1934) p169
[close]

Spoiler
"The systematic butchery of the uprooted and deported Armenians have assumed such a scope...it was not only tolerated but openly promoted by the government. It meant the extermination of the Armenians. Despite government assurances to the contrary, everything points to the goal of the destruction of the Armenian people."
Hohenloe-Langenburg, German Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire Oct-Nov 1915, German Foreign Ministry Archive
[close]

Spoiler
"The destruction of the Armenians was undertaken on a massive scale...This policy of extermination will for a long time stain the name of Turkey."
Richard Kuhlmann, German Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire 1916-1917, Forieign Minister 1917-1918, German Foreign Ministry Archives
[close]

Spoiler
"The Turks have embarked upon the total extermination of the Armenians in Transcaucasia, also (May 1918)... On the basisof all reports and news comming to me here in Tbilissi [Georgia] there hardly can be any doubt that the Turks systematically are aiming at the... extermination of the few hundred thousand Armenians whom they have left alive until now."
Otto von Lossow, Major General, German Military Plenipotentiary in Turkey and German Representative at Batum Conference in May, 1918 - 11 July 1918 - German Foreign Ministry Archives
[close]

Spoiler
"The manner in which the matter of relocation is being handled demonstrates that the government is in fact pursuing the goal of annihilating the Armenian race in Turkey.”
Hans Von Wangenheim: Ambassador of Imperial Germany to Turkey from 1912 - 1915
[close]

Spoiler
"The Turks have by no means relinquished their intention to exterminate the Armenians. They merely changed their tactics. Wherever possible, the Armenians are being aroused, provoked in the hope of thereby securing a pretext for new assaults on them."
Friedrich Kress Kressenstein: Major General, Chief of Operations, Turkish
General Headquarters, August 5 1918 - German Foreign Ministry Archives
[close]

Spoiler
"In a realization of their plan to resolve the Armenian Question by destroying the Armenian race, the Turkish Government is not stopped neither by our representatives, nor by the public opinion of the west."
Comte Paul Wolff Metternich in a dispatch to the Chancellor Von Bethmann-Holweg, July 10, 1919
[close]

Spoiler
"This attempt of the Armenians to defend themselves against the Turkish attack in Van was promptly misrepresented in a communique' which was sent by Enver Pasha and the Turkish Government to Berlin, and thence spread all over the world, as an attack by bands of Armenian insurrectionists who, in the rear of the Turkish army had fallen prey upon the Muhammedan population. Out of 180,000 Moslems in the Vilayet of Van only 30,000 had succeeded in escaping! In a later report issued by the Turkish embassy in Berlin on October 1, 1915, the story was further embellished: 'No fewer than 180,000 Moslems had been killed. It was not surprising that the Moslems had taken vengeance for this'. Some 18 Turks, answering to the number of Armenians they had killed in Van, had turned into 180,000! This astonishing impudent lie has a kind of foundation. According to statistics there should be 180,000 Moslems, including 30,000 Turks and 150,000 Kurds, in the Vilayet of Van. The Turks fled westwards when the Russian army advanced, while the 150,000 Kurds remained where they were, and were molested neither by the Russians nor the Armenians."
Dr. Fridtjof Nansen in Armenia and the Near East (1928) p. 302
[close]

Spoiler
"The Van uprising certainly was an act of desperation. The local Armenians realized that general massacres against the Armenians had already started and they would be the next target. In the course of the summer 1915 the Turkish government with inexorable consequence brought its bloody task of extermination of an entire nation to an end...The gruesome destruction of the Armenian nation in Asia Minor by the Ittihadist government was an act which was barbaric and which to the highest degree outrages all human senses."
Joseph Pomiankowski, Vice-Marshall, Austrian Military Plenipotentiary in Wartime Turkey during WWI, Collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Vienna, 1928, p.160 - 161
[close]

Spoiler
"The criminal gangs who were released from the prisons, after a week's training at the War Ministry's training grounds, were sent off to the Caucasian front as the brigands of the Special Organization, perpetrating the worst crimes against the Armenians ... The Ittihadists intended to destroy the Armenians, and thereby to do away with the Question of the Eastern Provinces.... In order to justify this enormous crime [of the Armenian genocide] the requisite propaganda material was thoroughly prepared in Istanbul. [It included such statements as:] the Armenians are in league with the enemy. They will launch an uprising in Istanbul, kill off the Ittihadist leaders and will succeed in opening up the straits [to enable the Allied fleets to capture Istanbul]. These vile and malicious incitements [were such, however, that they] could persuade only people who were not even able to feel the pangs of their own hunger. ... among those Armenians who were atrociously wasted, despite the fact that they were most innocent, guiltless, and who had committed no crime whatsoever, were the Armenians of Bursa, Ankara, Eskiehir, and Konya."
Ahmet Refik, Turkish Military Intelligence Officer in WWI in İki Komite-İki Kıtâl, İstanbul 1919
[close]

Spoiler
"I defended the Armenians who, even though they were completely innocent, were murdered simply because they were Armenians. The dictates of justice and the state's badge required such intervention."
Ottoman Senator Ahmet Riza, from his memoirs
[close]

Spoiler
"The partisans of Ittihad are unabashedly conceding that their ultimate aim [Endziel] is the total annihilation (ganzliche Ausrottung) of the Armenians of Turkey, adding, 'After the war we no longer will have any Armenians in Turkey.'"
Dr. Ludwig Maximilian Erwin von Scheubner-Richter, German Vice Consul, Erzerum, 28 July 1915
[close]

Spoiler
They [the Ittahadist leaders] have fabricated, for the benefit of Allied Powers, an alleged revolution stirred up by the Dashnak party. They have inflated the importance of isolated incidents and acts of self-defense by the Armenians and used it as an excuse to deport the bordering population. On the way. the Armenians have been murdered, on orders of the Committee, by gangs of Kurds and Turks and at times, even by gendarmes."
Dr. Ludwig Maximilian Erwin von Scheubner-Richter, dispatch to German Authorities, December 1916, Document No. 309
[close]

Spoiler
"The deprotation and destruction of the Armenians was decided by the Young Turks Committee in Constantinople."
Colonel Stange, Commander of the 8th Regiment (consisting mostly of convicts released from Turkish prisons to join the killer bands of the Special Organization), German Foreign Ministry Archives.
[close]

Spoiler
"It can no longer be denied that the Turks... have undertaken the extermination of the Armenian race and it appears that they have largely succeeded in it. With certain air of gleefulness Talaat recently told me that in Erzerum, for example, there should be remaining not a single Armenian... Turkey today is under a maniacal spell due to the realization that she carried out the extermination of the Armenian race with impunity."
Karl Count zu Trautmansdorff-Weinsberg, Temporary Ambassador to Turkey, 30 September 30, 1915, Austrian Foriegn Ministry Archives
[close]

Spoiler
"By February 1916, 1.5 million Armenians were destroyed ... the first step toward the recovery of the economic predominance in Turkey ... there was joy in the government circles that the long-desired opportunity finally presented itself..."
A. A. Türkei, 134/35, A18613, pp. 1,2,3,4 "Volkswirtschaftliche Studien in der Türkey" report.
[close]

Spoiler
"As for the Armenians, they were treated differently in the different vilayets. They were suspect and spied upon everywhere, but they suffered a real extermination, worse than massacre, in the so-called 'Armenian Vilayets.' from the 24th June onwards, the Armenians were all "interned" — that is, ejected by force from their various residences and despatched under the guard of the gendarmerie to distant, unknown destinations, which for a few will mean the interior of Mesopotamia, but for four-fifths of them has meant already a death accompanied by unheard-of cruelties. The official proclamation of internment came from Constantinople. It is the work of the Central Government and the "Committee of Union and Progress." The local authorities, and indeed the Moslem population in general, tried to resist, to mitigate it, to make omissions, to hush it up. But the orders of the Central Government were categorically confirmed, and all were compelled to resign themselves and obey. It was a real extermination and slaughter of the innocents, an unheard-of thing, a black page stained with the flagrant violation of the most sacred rights of humanity... There were about 14,000 Armenians at Trebizond — Gregorians, Catholics, and Protestants. They had never caused disorders or given occasion for collective measures of police. When I left Trebizond, not a hundred of them remained."
G. Gorrini, former Italian Consul-General at Trebizond, Il Messaggero Journal (Rome), August 25 1915
[close]
[close]


Also, the phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", french for "Let them eat cake", is often attributed to Marie Antionette, but there is no evidence she uttered these words.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 11:09:10 am by Tali »

Offline GoldenEagle

  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • Posts: 651
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Abii
  • Side: Union
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2013, 11:19:56 am »
The armenian genocide thing that have given us Turks bad name. I just know, by my heart, that no organized Turkish soldier would so such thing. Its just not in our blood to do so. If they had said : Turkish soldiers killed 2000 or something men, then ok, but they claim that Turkish soldiers killed 1 500 000 people including women and children, and there is no proof for it and most historians say them selves that there wasn't that many armenians living in Armenia in that time.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/turkey/TT3JLVRCDTJ5BB8D5

Spoiler
Spoiler
"Turkey initiated a policy of annihilation against the Armenians."
Paul von Hindenburg, German Field Marshall in the Ottoman Empire during WWI, From My Life, Leipzig, (1934) p169
[close]

Spoiler
"The systematic butchery of the uprooted and deported Armenians have assumed such a scope...it was not only tolerated but openly promoted by the government. It meant the extermination of the Armenians. Despite government assurances to the contrary, everything points to the goal of the destruction of the Armenian people."
Hohenloe-Langenburg, German Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire Oct-Nov 1915, German Foreign Ministry Archive
[close]

Spoiler
"The destruction of the Armenians was undertaken on a massive scale...This policy of extermination will for a long time stain the name of Turkey."
Richard Kuhlmann, German Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire 1916-1917, Forieign Minister 1917-1918, German Foreign Ministry Archives
[close]

Spoiler
"The Turks have embarked upon the total extermination of the Armenians in Transcaucasia, also (May 1918)... On the basisof all reports and news comming to me here in Tbilissi [Georgia] there hardly can be any doubt that the Turks systematically are aiming at the... extermination of the few hundred thousand Armenians whom they have left alive until now."
Otto von Lossow, Major General, German Military Plenipotentiary in Turkey and German Representative at Batum Conference in May, 1918 - 11 July 1918 - German Foreign Ministry Archives
[close]

Spoiler
"The manner in which the matter of relocation is being handled demonstrates that the government is in fact pursuing the goal of annihilating the Armenian race in Turkey.”
Hans Von Wangenheim: Ambassador of Imperial Germany to Turkey from 1912 - 1915
[close]

Spoiler
"The Turks have by no means relinquished their intention to exterminate the Armenians. They merely changed their tactics. Wherever possible, the Armenians are being aroused, provoked in the hope of thereby securing a pretext for new assaults on them."
Friedrich Kress Kressenstein: Major General, Chief of Operations, Turkish
General Headquarters, August 5 1918 - German Foreign Ministry Archives
[close]

Spoiler
"In a realization of their plan to resolve the Armenian Question by destroying the Armenian race, the Turkish Government is not stopped neither by our representatives, nor by the public opinion of the west."
Comte Paul Wolff Metternich in a dispatch to the Chancellor Von Bethmann-Holweg, July 10, 1919
[close]

Spoiler
"This attempt of the Armenians to defend themselves against the Turkish attack in Van was promptly misrepresented in a communique' which was sent by Enver Pasha and the Turkish Government to Berlin, and thence spread all over the world, as an attack by bands of Armenian insurrectionists who, in the rear of the Turkish army had fallen prey upon the Muhammedan population. Out of 180,000 Moslems in the Vilayet of Van only 30,000 had succeeded in escaping! In a later report issued by the Turkish embassy in Berlin on October 1, 1915, the story was further embellished: 'No fewer than 180,000 Moslems had been killed. It was not surprising that the Moslems had taken vengeance for this'. Some 18 Turks, answering to the number of Armenians they had killed in Van, had turned into 180,000! This astonishing impudent lie has a kind of foundation. According to statistics there should be 180,000 Moslems, including 30,000 Turks and 150,000 Kurds, in the Vilayet of Van. The Turks fled westwards when the Russian army advanced, while the 150,000 Kurds remained where they were, and were molested neither by the Russians nor the Armenians."
Dr. Fridtjof Nansen in Armenia and the Near East (1928) p. 302
[close]

Spoiler
"The Van uprising certainly was an act of desperation. The local Armenians realized that general massacres against the Armenians had already started and they would be the next target. In the course of the summer 1915 the Turkish government with inexorable consequence brought its bloody task of extermination of an entire nation to an end...The gruesome destruction of the Armenian nation in Asia Minor by the Ittihadist government was an act which was barbaric and which to the highest degree outrages all human senses."
Joseph Pomiankowski, Vice-Marshall, Austrian Military Plenipotentiary in Wartime Turkey during WWI, Collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Vienna, 1928, p.160 - 161
[close]

Spoiler
"The criminal gangs who were released from the prisons, after a week's training at the War Ministry's training grounds, were sent off to the Caucasian front as the brigands of the Special Organization, perpetrating the worst crimes against the Armenians ... The Ittihadists intended to destroy the Armenians, and thereby to do away with the Question of the Eastern Provinces.... In order to justify this enormous crime [of the Armenian genocide] the requisite propaganda material was thoroughly prepared in Istanbul. [It included such statements as:] the Armenians are in league with the enemy. They will launch an uprising in Istanbul, kill off the Ittihadist leaders and will succeed in opening up the straits [to enable the Allied fleets to capture Istanbul]. These vile and malicious incitements [were such, however, that they] could persuade only people who were not even able to feel the pangs of their own hunger. ... among those Armenians who were atrociously wasted, despite the fact that they were most innocent, guiltless, and who had committed no crime whatsoever, were the Armenians of Bursa, Ankara, Eskiehir, and Konya."
Ahmet Refik, Turkish Military Intelligence Officer in WWI in İki Komite-İki Kıtâl, İstanbul 1919
[close]

Spoiler
"I defended the Armenians who, even though they were completely innocent, were murdered simply because they were Armenians. The dictates of justice and the state's badge required such intervention."
Ottoman Senator Ahmet Riza, from his memoirs
[close]

Spoiler
"The partisans of Ittihad are unabashedly conceding that their ultimate aim [Endziel] is the total annihilation (ganzliche Ausrottung) of the Armenians of Turkey, adding, 'After the war we no longer will have any Armenians in Turkey.'"
Dr. Ludwig Maximilian Erwin von Scheubner-Richter, German Vice Consul, Erzerum, 28 July 1915
[close]

Spoiler
They [the Ittahadist leaders] have fabricated, for the benefit of Allied Powers, an alleged revolution stirred up by the Dashnak party. They have inflated the importance of isolated incidents and acts of self-defense by the Armenians and used it as an excuse to deport the bordering population. On the way. the Armenians have been murdered, on orders of the Committee, by gangs of Kurds and Turks and at times, even by gendarmes."
Dr. Ludwig Maximilian Erwin von Scheubner-Richter, dispatch to German Authorities, December 1916, Document No. 309
[close]

Spoiler
"The deprotation and destruction of the Armenians was decided by the Young Turks Committee in Constantinople."
Colonel Stange, Commander of the 8th Regiment (consisting mostly of convicts released from Turkish prisons to join the killer bands of the Special Organization), German Foreign Ministry Archives.
[close]

Spoiler
"It can no longer be denied that the Turks... have undertaken the extermination of the Armenian race and it appears that they have largely succeeded in it. With certain air of gleefulness Talaat recently told me that in Erzerum, for example, there should be remaining not a single Armenian... Turkey today is under a maniacal spell due to the realization that she carried out the extermination of the Armenian race with impunity."
Karl Count zu Trautmansdorff-Weinsberg, Temporary Ambassador to Turkey, 30 September 30, 1915, Austrian Foriegn Ministry Archives
[close]

Spoiler
"By February 1916, 1.5 million Armenians were destroyed ... the first step toward the recovery of the economic predominance in Turkey ... there was joy in the government circles that the long-desired opportunity finally presented itself..."
A. A. Türkei, 134/35, A18613, pp. 1,2,3,4 "Volkswirtschaftliche Studien in der Türkey" report.
[close]

Spoiler
"As for the Armenians, they were treated differently in the different vilayets. They were suspect and spied upon everywhere, but they suffered a real extermination, worse than massacre, in the so-called 'Armenian Vilayets.' from the 24th June onwards, the Armenians were all "interned" — that is, ejected by force from their various residences and despatched under the guard of the gendarmerie to distant, unknown destinations, which for a few will mean the interior of Mesopotamia, but for four-fifths of them has meant already a death accompanied by unheard-of cruelties. The official proclamation of internment came from Constantinople. It is the work of the Central Government and the "Committee of Union and Progress." The local authorities, and indeed the Moslem population in general, tried to resist, to mitigate it, to make omissions, to hush it up. But the orders of the Central Government were categorically confirmed, and all were compelled to resign themselves and obey. It was a real extermination and slaughter of the innocents, an unheard-of thing, a black page stained with the flagrant violation of the most sacred rights of humanity... There were about 14,000 Armenians at Trebizond — Gregorians, Catholics, and Protestants. They had never caused disorders or given occasion for collective measures of police. When I left Trebizond, not a hundred of them remained."
G. Gorrini, former Italian Consul-General at Trebizond, Il Messaggero Journal (Rome), August 25 1915
[close]
[close]


Also, the phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", french for "Let them eat cake", is often attributed to Marie Antionette, but there is no evidence she uttered these words.

Bro, quotes of people that is dead dosn't mean its true. We need actual facts. Why dosn't Armenians open their archives for public searching? Turks have their archives for public, but they can find no evidence of an order of the armenian genocide, if the Armenians had opened their archives for public, and people actually found something on Armenian genocide, ofcourse I would no deny a genocide. This is propaganda made by Turkish enemies. British even said Turkish soldiers are cannibals and eats captured enemies, does it make it true?

''Don't trust every quote you see on internet ''

- Abraham Lincoln

Offline Tali

  • First Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 747
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2013, 11:57:38 am »
Here is a list of countries and organizations that have recognized that this genocide did indeed happen(as of 2008):

Spoiler
Uruguay
Cyprus
FN Commitee for human rights
European Parliament
Russia
Greece
International association for genocide scientists ( Translated, reserving some name errors)
Lebanon
Belgium
France
Italien
The Vatican.
International Center for Transitional Justice
Switzerland
Argentina
Canada
Slovakia
Nederlands
Poland
Venezuela
Germany
Lithuania
Chile
[close]

So, the way I see it, we have two options. The above listed is in a conspiracy trying to backtalk turkey, something they'd have nothing to gain on, or Turkey is systematically lying to it's population about what it did.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 12:05:32 pm by Tali »

Offline Landrik

  • First Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1619
  • Слава Україні!
    • View Profile
    • Infanterie-Regiment 208 (Reenacted)
  • Nick: Landrik
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2013, 12:36:16 pm »
The American Civil War was fought and raged on solely because the Confederacy wanted to keep slaves while the Union did not. ::)
Humans are extremely complicated creatures. Death uncomplicates them to a frightening degree...

Offline GoldenEagle

  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • Posts: 651
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Abii
  • Side: Union
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2013, 01:16:18 pm »
Here is a list of countries and organizations that have recognized that this genocide did indeed happen(as of 2008):

Spoiler
Uruguay
Cyprus
FN Commitee for human rights
European Parliament
Russia
Greece
International association for genocide scientists ( Translated, reserving some name errors)
Lebanon
Belgium
France
Italien
The Vatican.
International Center for Transitional Justice
Switzerland
Argentina
Canada
Slovakia
Nederlands
Poland
Venezuela
Germany
Lithuania
Chile
[close]

So, the way I see it, we have two options. The above listed is in a conspiracy trying to backtalk turkey, something they'd have nothing to gain on, or Turkey is systematically lying to it's population about what it did.

But what about the other countries? Only because 22 countires agree on something, does it make it true? What about the other 184 countries? They gain actually very much money as they try to campaign that Turkey did genocide, there is many donators etc. That support them. They Gain ALOT of money from that. If you read the first link I gave you, you can clearly see that even US president claims that the Genocide is used just to earn money.

Not only that, but Britain and France made many lies about Turkey to justify their war on Turkey too. Their prestige started to fall because people started to look at them as war thirsty basterds (As US is seen like today). Because of that, they needed some sort of propaganda to justify their attack on Turkey after they had signed the peace treaty, and Armenian genocide is one of them.


Offline Tali

  • First Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 747
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2013, 01:36:30 pm »
The link you provided is ranting by one user with barely any proof.

Regarding why the other countries have not, Politics. Simple as that.

Claiming that the genocide did not happen can get you 2 years of prison in Turkey. It is like when the Vatican launched the inquisition and all the hearings towards scientists, the best way to ensure that people don't know the truth is to silence those who preach it.

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2013, 02:35:45 pm »
Here is a list of countries and organizations that have recognized that this genocide did indeed happen(as of 2008):

Spoiler
Uruguay
Cyprus
FN Commitee for human rights
European Parliament
Russia
Greece
International association for genocide scientists ( Translated, reserving some name errors)
Lebanon
Belgium
France
Italien
The Vatican.
International Center for Transitional Justice
Switzerland
Argentina
Canada
Slovakia
Nederlands
Poland
Venezuela
Germany
Lithuania
Chile
[close]

So, the way I see it, we have two options. The above listed is in a conspiracy trying to backtalk turkey, something they'd have nothing to gain on, or Turkey is systematically lying to it's population about what it did.

But what about the other countries? Only because 22 countires agree on something, does it make it true? What about the other 184 countries? They gain actually very much money as they try to campaign that Turkey did genocide, there is many donators etc. That support them. They Gain ALOT of money from that. If you read the first link I gave you, you can clearly see that even US president claims that the Genocide is used just to earn money.

Not only that, but Britain and France made many lies about Turkey to justify their war on Turkey too. Their prestige started to fall because people started to look at them as war thirsty basterds (As US is seen like today). Because of that, they needed some sort of propaganda to justify their attack on Turkey after they had signed the peace treaty, and Armenian genocide is one of them.

People are paying 184 countries to say Turkey systematically slaughtered the Armenians? Cui bono?

When 22 countries agree it happend, it means they have the balls to tell Turkey in her face she committed crimes against humanity.
Regardless if they shot them, let them starve or had them work themselves to their deaths: It's mass murder.

Quote
Turks have their archives for public, but they can find no evidence of an order of the armenian genocide

Don't you think they had the brains to either not write it down or burn it the orders?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 02:39:03 pm by Duuring »

Offline Pinball Wizard

  • Donator
  • *
  • Posts: 1033
    • View Profile
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2013, 02:43:10 pm »
In the quotes provided by Tali, if I saw it, and read it correctly, a Turkish Intelligance officer said they were/were about to committed the horrible crimes. That was proof enough for me.

Offline König

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 1329
  • A major König
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Koenig
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2013, 02:47:13 pm »
Don't you think they had the brains to either not write it down or burn it the orders?
Of relevance to this, is the fact that the Nazis kept extremely good records of the Holocaust.
I don't trust anything but pizza from a pizza place.

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2013, 02:48:13 pm »
Which has always surprised me, but the Nazi's are quite the exception.

Offline GoldenEagle

  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • Posts: 651
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Abii
  • Side: Union
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2013, 03:17:22 pm »
Here is a list of countries and organizations that have recognized that this genocide did indeed happen(as of 2008):

Spoiler
Uruguay
Cyprus
FN Commitee for human rights
European Parliament
Russia
Greece
International association for genocide scientists ( Translated, reserving some name errors)
Lebanon
Belgium
France
Italien
The Vatican.
International Center for Transitional Justice
Switzerland
Argentina
Canada
Slovakia
Nederlands
Poland
Venezuela
Germany
Lithuania
Chile
[close]

So, the way I see it, we have two options. The above listed is in a conspiracy trying to backtalk turkey, something they'd have nothing to gain on, or Turkey is systematically lying to it's population about what it did.

But what about the other countries? Only because 22 countires agree on something, does it make it true? What about the other 184 countries? They gain actually very much money as they try to campaign that Turkey did genocide, there is many donators etc. That support them. They Gain ALOT of money from that. If you read the first link I gave you, you can clearly see that even US president claims that the Genocide is used just to earn money.

Not only that, but Britain and France made many lies about Turkey to justify their war on Turkey too. Their prestige started to fall because people started to look at them as war thirsty basterds (As US is seen like today). Because of that, they needed some sort of propaganda to justify their attack on Turkey after they had signed the peace treaty, and Armenian genocide is one of them.

People are paying 184 countries to say Turkey systematically slaughtered the Armenians? Cui bono?

When 22 countries agree it happend, it means they have the balls to tell Turkey in her face she committed crimes against humanity.
Regardless if they shot them, let them starve or had them work themselves to their deaths: It's mass murder.

Quote
Turks have their archives for public, but they can find no evidence of an order of the armenian genocide

Don't you think they had the brains to either not write it down or burn it the orders?

Quote
People are paying 184 countries to say Turkey systematically slaughtered the Armenians? Cui bono?

What  ???

Quote
When 22 countries agree it happend, it means they have the balls to tell Turkey in her face she committed crimes against humanity.
Regardless if they shot them, let them starve or had them work themselves to their deaths: It's mass murder.

So you say.. USA... Dosn't have enough balls to stand against Turkey? Or china? Really?

Quote
Don't you think they had the brains to either not write it down or burn it the orders?

Of course thats a possibilty, same as Armenians could have written that the Genocide did indeed happen and put them out as archives, but they still don't want public acces to it. There is no proof really. I have seen some pictures, but it could easily be from other countires or whatever.

Offline Tali

  • First Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 747
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2013, 03:46:02 pm »
USA's refusal to acknowledge it can be due to many factors, non of which have to be that they do not believe it happened.

Most likely, I'd imagine, is that they wanted to maintain a good relation with the Turkish state during the cold war. (At the same time USSR was installing missile bases on Cuba, USA had some in turkey). Pressing the matter of the genocide would not have been good for politics.

Regarding China, they are not known as the most, humanitarian, nation there is.

Offline GoldenEagle

  • Sergeant Major
  • *
  • Posts: 651
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Abii
  • Side: Union
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2013, 03:56:26 pm »
USA's refusal to acknowledge it can be due to many factors, non of which have to be that they do not believe it happened.

Most likely, I'd imagine, is that they wanted to maintain a good relation with the Turkish state during the cold war. (At the same time USSR was installing missile bases on Cuba, USA had some in turkey). Pressing the matter of the genocide would not have been good for politics.

Regarding China, they are not known as the most, humanitarian, nation there is.

Thats racist (jk)

But seriously, there is no proof for it and its pretty sad that people acuse the Turks doing something they most proably didn't do. If however, they say it was Turkish armed gangs without order from the Government killed Armenians, I could not deny it, but now we are talking about Nazi like genocide where the government kills one race just because they think they are worth less.

Offline Tali

  • First Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 747
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: False histories. What irks you the most?
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2013, 04:05:44 pm »
USA's refusal to acknowledge it can be due to many factors, non of which have to be that they do not believe it happened.

Most likely, I'd imagine, is that they wanted to maintain a good relation with the Turkish state during the cold war. (At the same time USSR was installing missile bases on Cuba, USA had some in turkey). Pressing the matter of the genocide would not have been good for politics.

Regarding China, they are not known as the most, humanitarian, nation there is.

Thats racist (jk)

But seriously, there is no proof for it and its pretty sad that people acuse the Turks doing something they most proably didn't do. If however, they say it was Turkish armed gangs without order from the Government killed Armenians, I could not deny it, but now we are talking about Nazi like genocide where the government kills one race just because they think they are worth less.


Sigh.

There is plenty of proof. You are just trying to dismiss it all as anti-Turk propaganda spread by a evil group of Armenian super-geniuses.