Author Topic: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!  (Read 109208 times)

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Offline Peppers

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #960 on: August 07, 2017, 03:21:56 am »
Your point being? They still don't owe you anything.
My point is that saying "relax and let them do their thing" is a terrible argument, as their target market has done exactly that for literal years and received very spare "updates" since then. They don't owe me anything, true, but each year that they release nothing they increasingly lose business and credibility.
In who's mind? Yours? You act like they live or die by this community. They don't. A game will forge it's own community and, if it's good enough, the players will come. I've seen plenty of indie games on steam which had no prior following, take off.
So basically every post you post is .05 cents in your account.

Offline Toffee

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #961 on: August 07, 2017, 03:27:56 am »
Don't have a clue what that is supposed to mean but okay

Offline junedragon

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #962 on: August 07, 2017, 03:29:14 am »
Your point being? They still don't owe you anything.

Good lord you're dense.

They dont "owe" us jack shit.

I didn't say they do.

I said the marketing for BCoF has been shit tier and that is their problem at the end of the day.

Offline Toffee

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #963 on: August 07, 2017, 03:52:38 am »
You know someone only attacks the man when they can't attack the argument. We've all done it, but being the better person involves articulating yourself without personal attacks.

I've just explained that they might not be at the stage where they want advertising to be shown yet. None of us know how far along the alpha is. They'll begin their advertising campaign when they want. As I've previously explained, there are plenty of indie games which have received a decent following and sales without extensive advertisement. If you want updates, then head to the donator board, it's as simple as. If you're not willing to donate, then don't expect anything of someone who I'm sure is stressed enough as it is without people at their throats telling them how to run their company and how to develop their game.

We all need to remember that they are the ones who created the Napoleonic Wars that we all know and love. Trust them to do what they think is best. If you're so bothered about the game being publicized then get the word out there yourself.

Offline Andee

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #964 on: August 07, 2017, 04:36:01 am »
IMO, it kind of seems like a typical kickstarter gag. Where a dev announces a game, gets a bunch of donations, and runs. That's what this like right now. It was totally our decision to donate and we're not entitled to anything, but it's pretty shady when you advertise for donations for your product and never come through with it.

Offline Thunderstormer

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #965 on: August 07, 2017, 05:21:22 am »
IMO, it kind of seems like a typical kickstarter gag. Where a dev announces a game, gets a bunch of donations, and runs. That's what this like right now. It was totally our decision to donate and we're not entitled to anything, but it's pretty shady when you advertise for donations for your product and never come through with it.
they are working on the game.  they haven't just stopped and moved on.  i can't really say more than that.

hopefully they release a Dev blog soon to show the progress they made. 
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Offline junedragon

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #966 on: August 07, 2017, 05:28:02 am »
You know someone only attacks the man when they can't attack the argument. We've all done it, but being the better person involves articulating yourself without personal attacks.

I've just explained that they might not be at the stage where they want advertising to be shown yet. None of us know how far along the alpha is. They'll begin their advertising campaign when they want. As I've previously explained, there are plenty of indie games which have received a decent following and sales without extensive advertisement. If you want updates, then head to the donator board, it's as simple as. If you're not willing to donate, then don't expect anything of someone who I'm sure is stressed enough as it is without people at their throats telling them how to run their company and how to develop their game.

We all need to remember that they are the ones who created the Napoleonic Wars that we all know and love. Trust them to do what they think is best. If you're so bothered about the game being publicized then get the word out there yourself.

We're "attacking" you because your "arguments" are both asinine and completely off the point.

The whole point is they had all the ingredients they needed to launch forward via a thriving community and completely lost the momentum. Might they make it successful in the end? Perhaps. I sincerely hope so. But their failure to support this community and build hype is a monumental missed opportunity. From a 90% chance of success as long as the end product is good to probably a low 20's% chance if that.

The thousands who played NW are GONE and they are not coming back. Many dont even believe BCoF is coming out.

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We all need to remember that they are the ones who created the Napoleonic Wars that we all know and love.

And I am very grateful for the game they made. But lets be real, the NW DLC is not especially great by any stretch on its own merit. Melee is an exploitable mess of bugs and weird shit, there are loads of bugs/glitches, etc. etc. What really made this DLC great were the regiments/events and especially the youtubers that attracted thousands of people into it. If it wasn't for the community I would probably have 200 hours in game instead of 3000. Aside from creating the official servers (then neglecting them wholesale) and the forum, the devs have done pretty much nothing to actually nurture this community. And by leaving certain people in positions of power on the forum who havent even played NW in years they have driven away customers from here too.

Offline Toffee

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #967 on: August 07, 2017, 05:44:57 am »
I don't see anyone else throwing about insults except you. If Nw, a poorly made game, attracted so many, then imagine what a polished game would be like. If you dislike bug filled DLC, then maybe you should appreciate more the time they are taking to get things just right.

You're getting ahead of yourself by demanding advertising for a game that isn't even finished. Let them finish the damn thing first, then worry about how much it will sell.

At the end of the day what would you rather the developers show? Little clips of buggy gameplay which reflect nothing or a finished game. I know if there is one thing that has put me off buying the games in the past, it's seeing/hearing that they are unfinished and buggy. If nothing has been released to the general public, that means there isn't anything yet to show.

NW has been dying for years, it was always going to with or without BCoF. That's why the new game has to, and imo will, form its own community.

Maybe if you're criticising people who are in power on the forums, maybe you should remember that people wouldn't really expect insult-slinging from an admin of official servers. No excuse for that, so don't try and frame your disagreements with my points as a justification for it.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 05:50:02 am by Toffee Lad »

Offline junedragon

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #968 on: August 07, 2017, 06:03:26 am »
I don't see anyone else throwing about insults except you. If Nw, a poorly made game, attracted so many, then imagine what a polished game would be like. If you dislike bug filled DLC, then maybe you should appreciate more the time they are taking to get things just right.

You're getting ahead of yourself by demanding advertising for a game that isn't even finished. Let them finish the damn thing first, then worry about how much it will sell.

At the end of the day what would you rather the developers show? Little clips of buggy gameplay which reflect nothing or a finished game. I know if there is one thing that has put me off buying the games in the past, it's seeing/hearing that they are unfinished and buggy. If nothing has been released to the general public, that means there isn't anything yet to show.

NW has been dying for years, it was always going to with or without BCoF. That's why the new game has to, and imo will, form its own community.

Maybe if you're criticising people who are in power on the forums, maybe you should remember that people wouldn't really expect insult-slinging from an admin of official servers. No excuse for that, so don't try and frame your disagreements with my points as a justification for it.

Quote me where I have "insulted" you other than saying you're dense (which from your stubborn refusal to actually bother to read what we are saying, evidenced by the fact you keep making the same off topic points, is simply a fact).

"dense" is hardly "slinging insults" anyway. And pointing out gross mismanagement of a community is hardly insulting either. Its simple fact. There's a difference between appreciating and respecting the work of a dev team/company and becoming an outright apologist for poor business decisions/management. You can love a game and its makers while acknowledging where mistakes/failures have occurred, it doesn't require 1000% bootlicking and telling them their farts smell like roses. You seem to fail at making this distinction between a fan/customer and a lapdog/full-on-shill/apologist.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 06:10:33 am by junedragon »

Offline Toffee

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #969 on: August 07, 2017, 06:33:57 am »
"Quote where I insulted you other than the bits where I insulted you". To be honest you even called me a shill in the same post. That's hilarious. I mean, I don't know what it means where you live, but in England dense is certainly an insult.

The points aren't off topic at all. You're saying that they are failing to take advantage of a community and I'm telling you why this might not be the best time for them to do so. You only come out with the same insults and retorts because you can't back up what you're saying with anything else.

I suppose we all better now to your superior business mind though. I'm sure you know all of the inner workings and trends. If only FSE followed your advice.

Your entire response to my post was
1) Ask me to quote where you insulted me (whilst doing it yourself)
2)Reinforcing the insults, proving my point further.
3)Complain some more
4)Insult me some more.
 
You seem to be having trouble having an actual conversation without getting mad and dishing out insults. If you can't articulate yourself well enough without personally attacking the person you're arguing against then you just weaken your argument. As I've previously said, we've all done it so I'll accept that this is out of character and simply because you're stressed or have had a bad day. Please learn to discuss something in a more mature manner, it'll get you further in life.

Offline Xethos

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #970 on: August 07, 2017, 06:55:12 am »
You attacked him for an eight month old post and you still want to plug your ears and play victim? I thought that was what the politics thread was for.

Spoiler
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Maybe if you're criticising people who are in power on the forums, maybe you should remember that people wouldn't really expect insult-slinging from an admin of official servers. No excuse for that, so don't try and frame your disagreements with my points as a justification for it.
[close]

Don't know why you're dragging in official server admin policy into your post unless you're expecting a reward. We are not paid employees and we have no company line to hide behind. Several of us do think the BCoF development and marketing has been mismanaged, especially once the blogs stopped entirely, and we're allowed to say so. I don't think it's asking all that much to have Vince or Olaf make some two sentence developer blog telling everybody that they're still working on the game and that they still intend to complete it with a screenshot or two of something happening . . . and we're not going to get punished for wanting the opportunity to buy their game.
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04:25:13 - [Cup_of_Tea] Hey Xethos! I bet you're a gentleman of less than reputable quality!

Offline Toffee

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #971 on: August 07, 2017, 07:27:29 am »
Lmao disagreeing with someone is not attacking them. The insults also are. I mentioned the admin role because his critique of forum members in positions of power is ironic considering his own conduct whilst representative of FSE on their servers. Other representatives are also unpaid. June sees fit to criticise them but cannot control his own conduct.

As I have said many times, which was the reason behind the post in the first place:

If you want a small update, head to the donator's board!!!

You clearly just came in here without having read the entire conversation, and if you did then you've chosen to be very selective with your intake. I'm not entirely sure what you're referencing when you are talking about being "punished for buying the game", the entire conversation is about advertising.

Offline Thunderstormer

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #972 on: August 07, 2017, 08:02:14 am »
Lmao disagreeing with someone is not attacking them. The insults also are. I mentioned the admin role because his critique of forum members in positions of power is ironic considering his own conduct whilst representative of FSE on their servers. Other representatives are also unpaid. June sees fit to criticise them but cannot control his own conduct.

As I have said many times, which was the reason behind the post in the first place:

If you want a small update, head to the donator's board!!!

You clearly just came in here without having read the entire conversation, and if you did then you've chosen to be very selective with your intake. I'm not entirely sure what you're referencing when you are talking about being "punished for buying the game", the entire conversation is about advertising.
he has no position of power on these forums.  he is no different that the other 95% of the server staff who are just admins of the official servers and nothing more.(some are mods, like me)  they are  subject to the same rules as everyone else. 

i don't control my admins thoughts.  They can like who they want.  they can hate who they want.  they can believe what they want.  if they want to be/stay admins, they are required to follow the rules set forth to them as admins(even if they dont like  all the rules), and behave on the forums.    They can have their own opinion on the progress of BCoF and its marketing.  i wont punish my admins for not liking something about BCoF as long as they are respectful when they share said views publicly.

as for his "insult"   its minor at best.   

its time this went back on topic, rather than writing back and forth about perceived insults.  if the posts continue to be about perceived insults, i will just removed them.

if you have a problem with one of my admins, then you can send me a PM. 
Should you need to talk to me regarding NA1 or or something regarding admining or the admins, PM me here on the forums and not on steam.  *

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Offline Orcaryo

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #973 on: August 07, 2017, 08:31:50 am »
Lmao disagreeing with someone is not attacking them. The insults also are. I mentioned the admin role because his critique of forum members in positions of power is ironic considering his own conduct whilst representative of FSE on their servers. Other representatives are also unpaid. June sees fit to criticise them but cannot control his own conduct.

As I have said many times, which was the reason behind the post in the first place:

If you want a small update, head to the donator's board!!!

You clearly just came in here without having read the entire conversation, and if you did then you've chosen to be very selective with your intake. I'm not entirely sure what you're referencing when you are talking about being "punished for buying the game", the entire conversation is about advertising.
he has no position of power on these forums.  he is no different that the other 95% of the server staff who are just admins of the official servers and nothing more.(some are mods, like me)  they are  subject to the same rules as everyone else. 

i don't control my admins thoughts.  They can like who they want.  they can hate who they want.  they can believe what they want.  if they want to be/stay admins, they are required to follow the rules set forth to them as admins(even if they dont like  all the rules), and behave on the forums.    They can have their own opinion on the progress of BCoF and its marketing.  i wont punish my admins for not liking something about BCoF as long as they are respectful when they share said views publicly.

as for his "insult"   its minor at best.   

its time this went back on topic, rather than writing back and forth about perceived insults.  if the posts continue to be about perceived insults, i will just removed them.

if you have a problem with one of my admins, then you can send me a PM.
Guys I actually tell Thunderstormer what to do, he is my puppet

Offline Toffee

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Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« Reply #974 on: August 07, 2017, 02:06:19 pm »
Again somebody turns up who hasn't read my post properly. I didn't say that he wasn't following any rules that were set out for him. I said that, if he wants people in positions of power to conduct themselves properly, then maybe he should do so himself.

You're right the insults are minor, I'm not genuinely offended by them. The point is that it's hard to have a genuine conversation when someone is constantly looking for ways to undermine the other person. Attack the argument not the person.