Author Topic: Favourite All Time Leader(s)  (Read 50111 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hekko

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 814
  • I host stuff
    • View Profile
    • 15e Website
  • Nick: Nr24_Gren_Hptm_Hekko
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2012, 08:07:35 pm »
Obama, anyone?

In all seriousness though, I'd personally say Alexander, and/or the emperor Vespasian. In some ways, even the emperors Nero and Caligula were great in their own fashions - both were popular with the roman Plebs, much of their poor reputation was the result of unavoidable mental illness. Before he fell seriously ill Caligula is reported as being a hugely talented and promising emperor.

I disagree on Alexander, he may have built one badass empire in no time at all, but ultimately the lasting impacts were more of an accident (well dying wasn't ideal). Vespasian I do agree on, emerging victorious from the year of the four emperors he had the right mix of civil service mindedness mixed with his ambition. I reckon Octavian/Augustus ought to be up there on the list as well.


Someone obscure I forgot to mention in my first post is Charles XI of Sweden who laid much of the foundation that enabled Charles XII to prosper martially.

Offline Blobmania

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 1828
  • Damn Sexy.
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Blobmania
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2012, 08:11:53 pm »
I don't know why, but I've never really liked Augustus. He was undeniably an incredibly able politician and general, but I've always seen him as being cast somewhat in the shadow of Caesar. Despite his exalted reputation, I believe Augustus actually had an easier time of taking power than Julius did, and personally that dampens his achievements for me somewhat. That's not to say that he didn't achieve a huge amount during his reign, but to me it seems like more a continuation from hi Father's achievements, and therefore not 100% his own work.

Just my personal impression on him, though.
Spoiler
[close]

If a cat sits in a box in the woods and no-one is around to hear it, is it alive?

Offline Hekko

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 814
  • I host stuff
    • View Profile
    • 15e Website
  • Nick: Nr24_Gren_Hptm_Hekko
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2012, 08:20:14 pm »
Caesar certainly had paved the way for Augustus, but for me the fact that he successfully managed to grab power and hold on to it for a very long time (initiating the pax romana) sets him appart from other emperors. Caesar was very capable as well though.

It's a bit like how I see Scipio as ultimately more successful than Hannibal, Scipio did less cool stuff, but ultimately he read Hannibal and managed pull off victories where others couldn't. Which is why I don't find Octavian doing his homework and learning from Caesar as something detracting from his legacy.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 08:27:08 pm by Hekko »

Offline Blobmania

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 1828
  • Damn Sexy.
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Blobmania
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2012, 08:28:49 pm »
I suppose. I think he had a huge advantage though over Caesar in that he not only had Caesar's will declaring him hereditary heir to the throne, but he came directly out of a Civil war - after which the Senate and people were grasping at anything that could provide them with stability. While not being as politically adept as Augustus, I think that if Mark Antony or Brutus had won the civil war they'd still have been able to take power in much the same way.
Spoiler
[close]

If a cat sits in a box in the woods and no-one is around to hear it, is it alive?

Offline Hekko

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 814
  • I host stuff
    • View Profile
    • 15e Website
  • Nick: Nr24_Gren_Hptm_Hekko
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2012, 08:40:04 pm »
I couldn't see Brutus or Mark Anthony keeping it together in the same way, nor paving the way for the future success of the empire. But you're right that Caesar's will was a bit of a freebie, but then again the the same argument can be made for many men, Napoleon would have been nobody without the revolution for instance.

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12331
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2012, 08:41:20 pm »
He gradually grew more and more insane, I'll grant you, but one of the major causes of his insanity was the power he held. He quite definitely abused his power, but he was a very avid patron of the dramatic arts, and despite his insanity he had great plans for Rome in that regard.

Nah, he just wanted a massive palace, just for him.

Offline Blobmania

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 1828
  • Damn Sexy.
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Blobmania
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2012, 08:45:50 pm »
Please tell me you've read the sources before making such a sweeping statement about one man's entire life ;)
Spoiler
[close]

If a cat sits in a box in the woods and no-one is around to hear it, is it alive?

Offline Van_Hulstein

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 986
  • Orangist and very proud ex-33rd Lieutenant.
    • View Profile
  • Nick: NL_VanHulstein
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2012, 08:49:04 pm »
@During

I knew you were gonna say this.. thats why i didnt put a link
Nunc aut nunquam

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12331
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2012, 08:54:05 pm »
Please tell me you've read the sources before making such a sweeping statement about one man's entire life ;)

It's like common knowledge...The Golden house? The statue of Nero which became a statue of Titus? Don't say you ever heard of these things.

Van_Hulstein:
Spoiler
[close]

 ::)

Offline Blobmania

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 1828
  • Damn Sexy.
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Blobmania
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2012, 09:16:26 pm »
I studied Ancient Rome for two years in college, Duuring ;)

The statue of Nero actually didn't become the statue of Titus, it was pulled down and the Flavian Amphitheater was built in it's place.

The Golden palace was admittedly an extravagance, but Nero would hardly be the first of the Emperors to build a new palace for themselves. Hell, Tiberius took over a whole island as his personal holiday home and realm of debauchery.
Spoiler
[close]

If a cat sits in a box in the woods and no-one is around to hear it, is it alive?

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12331
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2012, 09:18:22 pm »
You might wanna call all the history books with that news.

An extravagance? That's sure a way to put it LIGHTLY.


Offline Blobmania

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 1828
  • Damn Sexy.
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Blobmania
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2012, 09:42:25 pm »
I think you're confusing the Arch of Titus (Still standing in Rome, just outside the Amphitheater) with this "Statue of Titus". In either case, the statue of Nero was already long gone by the time the arch was built.

And Extravagance is what world leaders do best. They're allowed to make irrational and useless decisions, at some point.
Spoiler
[close]

If a cat sits in a box in the woods and no-one is around to hear it, is it alive?

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12331
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2012, 10:23:53 pm »
No, I am not. I know the arch of titus - I've leaned against it, in fact. Though, the guards weren't too thrilled about that.

Offline Pinball Wizard

  • Donator
  • *
  • Posts: 1023
    • View Profile
  • Side: Confederacy
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2012, 02:49:26 am »
Well a good leader, General Norman Schwarzkopf, died the other day. A shame, he was really well liked, and was a good general.

Offline Windom

  • Second Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 115
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Windom
  • Side: Neutral
Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2012, 11:12:41 pm »
Lincoln gg op no re.

Im from the south, but this man revolutionised warfare. One of the American greats.