It's time to nerf bayonet damage.

[Balien]

The bayonet only has 2 attacks, and the easiest to block attacks. The sword and axe have 4 attacks, and can do a lot more damage in a group fight if the person wielding it knows what to do.

[Mathias]

I don't understand you, because in competitive servers I never EVER get a 1 hit kill with a bayonet... I literally got mad back in September 2012 when they nerfed the bayonet and at this point nerfing the damage is like asking to have people tank 7 hits regularly, when normally I can get them in 2 or 3 hits..!!!

Though I can understand that the kills in this game are ridiculously easy now that I've played enough... No more satisfaction to have a 6000-1 score in gfing. (Exaggeration galore)

[Clandestine_Frog]

I would prefer to have a mature and serious debate concerning melee combat.

Certainly the bayonets lethality isn't to be brought into question, it is a very long and sharp piece of steel several inches in length, but a sword is equally deadly, and in most encounters I've seen *especially on NA-1*, it can be said that swords are lacking in their damage where they consistently need 3-4 hits along the torso to make a kill, unless you get the lucky shot on their head.

It's not a lack of blocking skill that is the question but it does come down to what is fair to all players, Officers aren't necessarily strong as a character class *as far as NA-1 is concerned* that said While they do have 4 directions to attack from, they have a fraction of the damage and the reach that the bayonet does have. All it takes is one bayonet stab on the torso or head to kill.

I could block and parry flawlessly for several minutes only to eventually be thrown off by a well timed and played off feinting maneuver, it happens to the best of us.

One-mistake, whereas a ranker with a bayonet can make several.

Just consider these points made before declaring the position completely invalid.

[Killington]

Bayonets do do more damage, but I've one-hit plenty of people with a sword (aim for the head and use dat momentum) and I've tanked ten hits from a bayonet. The bayonet is longer and does more damage but the sword's feint-spammability shouldn't be underestimated. The bayonetter can on average make one additional mistake than the swordsman, but it is a lot easier to make that mistake, because of the four directions and speed.

[Dionysus]

I would prefer to have a mature and serious debate concerning melee combat.

Certainly the bayonets lethality isn't to be brought into question, it is a very long and sharp piece of steel several inches in length, but a sword is equally deadly, and in most encounters I've seen *especially on NA-1*, it can be said that swords are lacking in their damage where they consistently need 3-4 hits along the torso to make a kill, unless you get the lucky shot on their head.

It's not a lack of blocking skill that is the question but it does come down to what is fair to all players, Officers aren't necessarily strong as a character class *as far as NA-1 is concerned* that said While they do have 4 directions to attack from, they have a fraction of the damage and the reach that the bayonet does have. All it takes is one bayonet stab on the torso or head to kill.

I could block and parry flawlessly for several minutes only to eventually be thrown off by a well timed and played off feinting maneuver, it happens to the best of us.

One-mistake, whereas a ranker with a bayonet can make several.

Just consider these points made before declaring the position completely invalid.

Not only do swords one hit but its extremely easier to hit someone with a sword than it is with a bayonet due to how fast you can continuously change attacks with 2 extra attack directions. So don't talk about whats fair to all players. You're going to get defeated no matter what you play as, nobody is immortal.

[SeanBeansShako]

You know what you are doing right now here is pretty bad for the thread discussion. If nobody is going to take the subject seriously, I will happily close the thread. It isn't like we've not beaten this dead horse of a subject to a bloody pulp. But if there is still room for serious discussion keep it going now.

We haven't even gotten to the third page yet - I don't see how an entire thread's potential worth can be judged so soon. Can't you give it some time before threatening to lock it?

Consider this a stern warning, as it is what it is. I have seen something twelve of these threads and unchecked they go downhill fast and people get carried away.

Keep up the good work so far people.

[Rallix]

If Rallix is trying to compare melee on NA1 or some other shit server where people don't know how to right click to block, then yes, everyone tries to shoot you point blank in a melee situation, but that doesn't mean that the whole lot of people who groupfight have no skill. I personally have never seen you melee or go on any melee sever for that matter, so all I know is that you are complete garbage who is used to shooting and not going into melee against other people. Don't assume that everyone is some casual player or that melee the only melee you see is in linebattles.

Let's not get into that kind of discussion. I was commenting on changes that would promote a higher average skill-level, or appeal to the skilled playerbase. I was not saying that all NW players lack skill.

If you have issue with my claims to experience, I suppose that you shall just have to take my word for it, or take that up with me outside of this thread. Please do not derail the thread with 'He's pretending to be a good player!'

[LastSpartan]

Swordsmen who repeatedly change attack directions and can maintain focus on blocking are quite simply overpowered in NW. Considering how much the polearm has been slowed as opposed to the sword is ridiculous. Not to mention the amount of attack directions the faster weapon has, as if it didn't already have a big enough advantage.

How I see it, two most commonly used weapons - the sword and the bayonet - are balanced when pitted agaist each other in the way that even though you can spam hits with a sword quite easily most of the time you only need one mistake and your opponent will kill you with well placed a bayonet thrust, while you take 2-3 sword hits to kill him.

[Nipplestockings]

Swordsmen who repeatedly change attack directions and can maintain focus on blocking are quite simply overpowered in NW. Considering how much the polearm has been slowed as opposed to the sword is ridiculous. Not to mention the amount of attack directions the faster weapon has, as if it didn't already have a big enough advantage.

How I see it, two most commonly used weapons - the sword and the bayonet - are balanced when pitted agaist each other in the way that even though you can spam hits with a sword quite easily most of the time you only need one mistake and your opponent will kill you with well placed a bayonet thrust, while you take 2-3 sword hits to kill him.

In a sword vs.bayonet situation with two players of equal skill, a sword will almost always win simply because of its superior versatility and speed. The sword is easily the best weapon in the game if used correctly, and it's balanced decently well. I would ask for the sword's speed to be reduced a bit though, because it's too easy to spam with it as it is. Same with the bayonet, but to a lesser extend because it doesn't have left or right attack directions.

[Furrnox]

Yeah I must say the sword is a little bit op but it doesn't break the game since not to many people use it other then officers and cav so it's well balanced I think.

[Ancient]

Speed bonus is everything so it largely varies but I would strongly argue its balanced now anyway.

[Dionysus]

But the ones who utilize the sword to its OP efficiency by continuously changing attack directions and can focus on blocking successfully are unfairly strong. You just don't see many swordsmen capable of keeping that type of focus up for long.

But the ones that can keep up that focus is why the sword needs to be nerfed. Because someone with the same level of skill and focus using a bayonet is not nearly as strong and probably won't be able to keep up with blocking for long.

[Nipplestockings]

But the ones who utilize the sword to its OP efficiency by continuously changing attack directions and can focus on blocking successfully are unfairly strong. You just don't see many swordsmen capable of keeping that type of focus up for long.

But the ones that can keep up that focus is why the sword needs to be nerfed. Because someone with the same level of skill and focus using a bayonet is not nearly as strong and probably won't be able to keep up with blocking for long.

Maybe those people are just good at the game?

[TORN]

wow now we should nerf it because people are good at it....welp game over.

[Clandestine_Frog]

The sword is hardly overpowered in the hands of most average competitive players, but in the hands of a master I can see how it would be considered a bit overwhelming, but even then, a master would need only make one mistake or not be aware of his surroundings for only a moment to be stabbed by a bayonet from the front, side or behind.

Only once to kill someone with a bayonet... or several strikes with a sword it seems.

The lethality of a sword is pitiful compared to the bayonet, simple as that.