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The Lounge => Historical Discussion => Topic started by: Thomas on December 26, 2012, 04:04:41 am

Title: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Thomas on December 26, 2012, 04:04:41 am
Post the most favoured leader of your opinion. Here are mine..

1. George Washington

He is my favoutite leader because he united 13 small colonies against a European superpowe
. From his time as a LtCol in the British Army to commanding the American regulars, this man proved himself.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: kpetschulat on December 26, 2012, 04:15:19 am
Adolf Hit--- Nah, JK.

I'd have to say Napoleon, honestly. He made very many feats of intelligence along all of his campaigns. The Battle at Austerlitz, Lodi, Dresden... The Battle against the Mameluke and Turk alliance at the battle of the Pyramids where Napoleon first deployed his infantry squares in great effectiveness. His amazing ability to use artillery at a huge advantage no matter what. I even admire his extreme bravery in trying to tame the Motherland of Russia. However a mistake, which cost him 400,000 soldiers, it's still very admirable. Even 120 years later, when Hitler marched on Russia, he made no significant progress as Napoleon did.

Napoleon was a great emperor and general. He's a man that should be studied by everyone.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Thomas on December 26, 2012, 04:20:48 am
Napoleon was a great leader, and all though society wants to hide from the truth of Hitler, he was too. An absolutely corrupted man, but he lead a nation to a war they knew nearly nothing about. Hitler is one of the greats, alongside Napoleon.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: kpetschulat on December 26, 2012, 04:54:03 am
... Hitler... An absolutely corrupted man, but he lead a nation to a war... Hitler is one of the greats, alongside Napoleon.

Hitler was indeed a very great man. He is frowned upon for inhumane dillusions against all non white people and Jews, nonetheless Germany would not have become an extreme economical powerhouse it was. He took Germany out of one of the worst depressions in human history, and make Germany into a strong economical empire once again. He was a very intelligent man, he just made those few mistakes that cost him not only his life, but Germany's reputation. The biggest mistake that Hitler EVER made, was dishonoring the very strong pact he had with the Soviet Union. People refer to the US as the "Sleeping Giant" during WWII, but Russia was right up there with us. Russia destroyed the German eastern front, and annhilated all German occupations in their path to reclaim Eastern Europe.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Thomas on December 26, 2012, 04:56:52 am
Aye, it seems Russia is the "Achilles Heel" of European military leaders. First, Napoleon's grand army, then Hitler's nazi force.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: kpetschulat on December 26, 2012, 05:13:36 am
Aye, it seems Russia is the "Achilles Heel" of European military leaders. First, Napoleon's grand army, then Hitler's nazi force.

Go even further to Karl Gustav of Sweden and his attmepted campaign into Russia. He had 12000 musketeers, 20000 other infantry, 4000 cavalry, and 400 cannons. He lost 60% of his force in Russia, and another 30% to the Polish. But, he... he was a very stupid man.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on December 26, 2012, 12:47:11 pm
Due to the extreme distances and lack of food and shelter, invading Russia has been all but impossible for almost every military until very recently. (Unless you are the mongols).

1. Subutai
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: michaelroelant on December 26, 2012, 02:04:53 pm
hannibal

for getting his army to Rome
and causing alot of damage

also becaus he took a dangerous trip to the Alpes
to reach Rome
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Pinball Wizard on December 26, 2012, 02:58:23 pm
General George Patton, the world's most bad ass general known to man.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: TheZach_Attack on December 26, 2012, 03:54:47 pm
hannibal

for getting his army to Rome
and causing alot of damage

also becaus he took a dangerous trip to the Alpes
to reach Rome
Hannibal knew how to gain a Victory but not how to use it.
-A quote from one of his brothers in think
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: kpetschulat on December 26, 2012, 03:57:08 pm
hannibal

for getting his army to Rome
and causing alot of damage

also becaus he took a dangerous trip to the Alpes
to reach Rome
Hannibal knew how to gain a Victory but not how to use it.
-A quote from one of his brothers in think

+1 And yes, it is from his Brother Baraka or something.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Pinkknight on December 26, 2012, 05:27:01 pm
Mine is Charles the 12th (Karl den tolfte) because he stood up against several enemies at once at a very young age. + he is Swedish C:.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: KillerMongoose on December 26, 2012, 06:02:22 pm
Prince of Orange
Hannibal
Napoleon
Robert E. Lee
King Henry V
(There are more but I'll post them later)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Jefferson on December 26, 2012, 07:06:06 pm
Lieutenant General Harry Smith is somebody that I've been reading about recently. He seems to have been a talanted commander of light troops, and boldly intelligent in tricking much superior enemy forces into thinking that they were outnumbered and had to retreat, (I've only read about his time in the Peninsular so far).
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: KillerMongoose on December 26, 2012, 08:19:10 pm
I think the important question to ask yourself when determining if someone is a good leader is what makes a good leader? I think a leader needs to give you a reason to fight and he needs to make you love success more than you value your safety but he must also know when to live to fight another day. Leaders must inspire confidence and assure his men that they can win. There's a quote, it says "a good leader sees a chance for victory in almost every situation but knows when victory is impossible." Dead men may be brave but they're just that... dead. They've used up all of their usefulness now they're not worth anything but stories. And a leader must know what to do with defeat. He must be able to either get his forces to a position of safety, rendezvous with reinforcements, or rally his forces to go and fight again. And a leader needs to have flexible tactics, he should also listen to the advice of others, a leader should accept that he can never know all of the answers and make the best of what he has at his disposal.A leader's men need to know that they can trust him and have faith in him and his ability.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: kpetschulat on December 26, 2012, 08:24:55 pm
How about besides posting lists of people, probably which you know little to nothing about, give us reasons why they are your favorite. That way your list isn't of popular people, and actually contains some intellectual insight as to why they are your favorite. I'd love to hear, along with others, about why they are your favorite.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Mr T on December 26, 2012, 09:13:17 pm
Napoleon, not only for being one of the greatest military geniuses that ever lived, but his politics were modernised and brought France out of the dark routines after the revolution, restoring the Catholic church to the appeasment of the common people and the restructuring of the French education system.
No matter what people say of his policies, he changed France for the better after the Revolution.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hekko on December 27, 2012, 10:31:44 am
Mannerheim - The first and only marshal of Finland. He rose to the rank of general of cavalry in the imperial Russian army before the revolution, after which he travelled back to Finland. In Finland he amongst other things lead the whites (non-communist side) in victory over the reds in the Finnish civil war. He also acted as regent for Finland after german prince who was king elect chose to reconsidr accepting the throne of Finland.

During the second world war he was commander-in-chief of the finnish forces, and managed to keep one if the most assymetric theathres (in terms of manpower and resources) in the second world war going. Afterwards he was president of Finland for some time. Mannerheim was accordingly instrumental in keeping Finland in the wester, non-communist sphere, keeping Finland independent and healing the wounds caused by the civil war. He is one of the few people decorated by all sides in both the first and second world wars.

Napoleon - Everyone know of his military genious, but for me having an impact on society as whole is as important as being a good general. I think we're all aware of Napoleons military genious, but for me his civil contributions are very important, if not more important. The fact that he was the patron of things such as the code Napoleon and metric system and reconcilling the good ideas of the revolution with the french society is what qualifies him as a great leader, whathever one thinks of him as a person.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Friedrich on December 27, 2012, 03:36:06 pm
Ok, that's easy, you can gues who I name:

Friedrich II. der Große (Frederick II the Great)

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F9%2F90%2FFriedrich_Zweite_Alt.jpg&hash=d0c93fc56d7ce66a13cef97ddef636b7)



Quote from:  Napoléon Bonaparte on October 25, 1806 in Potsdam near Berlin
"If tis man would be still alive, I wouldn't stand here."
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Van_Hulstein on December 27, 2012, 04:31:39 pm
William of Orange-
Because without him the Netherlands will still been an Spanish Habsburg.

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: kpetschulat on December 27, 2012, 04:49:30 pm
William of Orange-
Because without him the Netherlands will still been an Spanish Habsburg.

I highly doubt that.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: James Grant on December 27, 2012, 05:09:48 pm
Hmm this is a toughy...
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Bluehawk on December 27, 2012, 05:24:36 pm
Chinghis Khan, no contest.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on December 27, 2012, 05:46:20 pm
William of Orange-
Because without him the Netherlands will still been an Spanish Habsburg.

I highly doubt that.

He's speaking of the man that lead the Dutch revolt, not the King or Prince in 1815.

On a side note, the Dutch revolt was the funniest and eagerless-est revolt EVER.  ;D
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: kpetschulat on December 27, 2012, 07:28:32 pm
William of Orange-
Because without him the Netherlands will still been an Spanish Habsburg.

I highly doubt that.

He's speaking of the man that lead the Dutch revolt, not the King or Prince in 1815.

On a side note, the Dutch revolt was the funniest and eagerless-est revolt EVER.  ;D

Oh, I thought he meant the latter.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Van_Hulstein on December 28, 2012, 07:08:40 pm
 William of Orange (Dutch: Willem van Oranje), was the main leader of the Dutch revolt against the Spanish that set off the Eighty Years' War and resulted in the formal independence of the United Provinces in 1648. He was born in the House of Nassau as Count of Nassau-Dillenburg. He became Prince of Orange in 1544 and is thereby the founder of the branch House of Orange-Nassau.
A wealthy nobleman, William originally served the Habsburgs as a member of the court of Margaret of Parma, governor of the Spanish Netherlands. Unhappy with the centralisation of political power away from the local estates and with the Spanish persecution of Dutch Protestants, William joined the Dutch uprising and turned against his former masters. The most influential and politically capable of the rebels, he led the Dutch to several successes in the fight against the Spanish. Declared an outlaw by the Spanish king in 1580, he was assassinated by Balthasar Gérard (also written as "Gerardts") in Delft four years later.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on December 28, 2012, 07:12:08 pm
Don't copy stuff from wikipedia to look smart  :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_the_Silent
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Blobmania on December 28, 2012, 07:57:45 pm
Obama, anyone?

In all seriousness though, I'd personally say Alexander, and/or the emperor Vespasian. In some ways, even the emperors Nero and Caligula were great in their own fashions - both were popular with the roman Plebs, much of their poor reputation was the result of unavoidable mental illness. Before he fell seriously ill Caligula is reported as being a hugely talented and promising emperor.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on December 28, 2012, 08:00:28 pm
Obama, anyone?

In all seriousness though, I'd personally say Alexander, and/or the emperor Vespasian. In some ways, even the emperors Nero and Caligula were great in their own fashions - both were popular with the roman Plebs, much of their poor reputation was the result of unavoidable mental illness. Before he fell seriously ill Caligula is reported as being a hugely talented and promising emperor.

Caligula before he went crazy - yeah. Nero? No. He was a complete madman. I think they only reason the people didn't hate him is because he didn't give any fucks about them  ::)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Blobmania on December 28, 2012, 08:07:05 pm
He gradually grew more and more insane, I'll grant you, but one of the major causes of his insanity was the power he held. He quite definitely abused his power, but he was a very avid patron of the dramatic arts, and despite his insanity he had great plans for Rome in that regard.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hekko on December 28, 2012, 08:07:35 pm
Obama, anyone?

In all seriousness though, I'd personally say Alexander, and/or the emperor Vespasian. In some ways, even the emperors Nero and Caligula were great in their own fashions - both were popular with the roman Plebs, much of their poor reputation was the result of unavoidable mental illness. Before he fell seriously ill Caligula is reported as being a hugely talented and promising emperor.

I disagree on Alexander, he may have built one badass empire in no time at all, but ultimately the lasting impacts were more of an accident (well dying wasn't ideal). Vespasian I do agree on, emerging victorious from the year of the four emperors he had the right mix of civil service mindedness mixed with his ambition. I reckon Octavian/Augustus ought to be up there on the list as well.


Someone obscure I forgot to mention in my first post is Charles XI of Sweden who laid much of the foundation that enabled Charles XII to prosper martially.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Blobmania on December 28, 2012, 08:11:53 pm
I don't know why, but I've never really liked Augustus. He was undeniably an incredibly able politician and general, but I've always seen him as being cast somewhat in the shadow of Caesar. Despite his exalted reputation, I believe Augustus actually had an easier time of taking power than Julius did, and personally that dampens his achievements for me somewhat. That's not to say that he didn't achieve a huge amount during his reign, but to me it seems like more a continuation from hi Father's achievements, and therefore not 100% his own work.

Just my personal impression on him, though.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hekko on December 28, 2012, 08:20:14 pm
Caesar certainly had paved the way for Augustus, but for me the fact that he successfully managed to grab power and hold on to it for a very long time (initiating the pax romana) sets him appart from other emperors. Caesar was very capable as well though.

It's a bit like how I see Scipio as ultimately more successful than Hannibal, Scipio did less cool stuff, but ultimately he read Hannibal and managed pull off victories where others couldn't. Which is why I don't find Octavian doing his homework and learning from Caesar as something detracting from his legacy.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Blobmania on December 28, 2012, 08:28:49 pm
I suppose. I think he had a huge advantage though over Caesar in that he not only had Caesar's will declaring him hereditary heir to the throne, but he came directly out of a Civil war - after which the Senate and people were grasping at anything that could provide them with stability. While not being as politically adept as Augustus, I think that if Mark Antony or Brutus had won the civil war they'd still have been able to take power in much the same way.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hekko on December 28, 2012, 08:40:04 pm
I couldn't see Brutus or Mark Anthony keeping it together in the same way, nor paving the way for the future success of the empire. But you're right that Caesar's will was a bit of a freebie, but then again the the same argument can be made for many men, Napoleon would have been nobody without the revolution for instance.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on December 28, 2012, 08:41:20 pm
He gradually grew more and more insane, I'll grant you, but one of the major causes of his insanity was the power he held. He quite definitely abused his power, but he was a very avid patron of the dramatic arts, and despite his insanity he had great plans for Rome in that regard.

Nah, he just wanted a massive palace, just for him.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Blobmania on December 28, 2012, 08:45:50 pm
Please tell me you've read the sources before making such a sweeping statement about one man's entire life ;)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Van_Hulstein on December 28, 2012, 08:49:04 pm
@During

I knew you were gonna say this.. thats why i didnt put a link
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on December 28, 2012, 08:54:05 pm
Please tell me you've read the sources before making such a sweeping statement about one man's entire life ;)

It's like common knowledge...The Golden house? The statue of Nero which became a statue of Titus? Don't say you ever heard of these things.

Van_Hulstein:
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F001%2F384%2FAtrapitis.gif&hash=e49fa7ccc36d4456d64ddb482f7ab437)
[close]

 ::)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Blobmania on December 28, 2012, 09:16:26 pm
I studied Ancient Rome for two years in college, Duuring ;)

The statue of Nero actually didn't become the statue of Titus, it was pulled down and the Flavian Amphitheater was built in it's place.

The Golden palace was admittedly an extravagance, but Nero would hardly be the first of the Emperors to build a new palace for themselves. Hell, Tiberius took over a whole island as his personal holiday home and realm of debauchery.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on December 28, 2012, 09:18:22 pm
You might wanna call all the history books with that news.

An extravagance? That's sure a way to put it LIGHTLY.

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Blobmania on December 28, 2012, 09:42:25 pm
I think you're confusing the Arch of Titus (Still standing in Rome, just outside the Amphitheater) with this "Statue of Titus". In either case, the statue of Nero was already long gone by the time the arch was built.

And Extravagance is what world leaders do best. They're allowed to make irrational and useless decisions, at some point.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on December 28, 2012, 10:23:53 pm
No, I am not. I know the arch of titus - I've leaned against it, in fact. Though, the guards weren't too thrilled about that.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Pinball Wizard on December 29, 2012, 02:49:26 am
Well a good leader, General Norman Schwarzkopf, died the other day. A shame, he was really well liked, and was a good general.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Windom on December 29, 2012, 11:12:41 pm
Lincoln gg op no re.

Im from the south, but this man revolutionised warfare. One of the American greats.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on December 29, 2012, 11:34:15 pm
Lincoln gg op no re.

Im from the south, but this man revolutionised warfare. One of the American greats.

How did Lincoln, a Lawyer and politician, revolutionize warfare?  ???
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Windom on December 30, 2012, 02:13:56 am
Rail roads, telegrams, mass production.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: kpetschulat on December 30, 2012, 02:37:01 am
Rail roads, telegrams, mass production.

That's infrastructure, and had little to no effect on a revolution of warfare.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hekko on December 30, 2012, 02:49:54 am
Rail roads, telegrams, mass production.

That's infrastructure, and had little to no effect on a revolution of warfare.

You are very naive if you believe that infrastructre and communications had no impact on warfare. Logistics and communications is one of the fundamental things that determine the success or failure of campaigns. Poor communication essentially lost quatre-bras for the french since d'Erlons corps was playing pong between Napoleon and Ney since there was a breakdown in communications. Not to mention logistics being a huge part of why the Russian campaign failed for napoleon.

Having said that though, giving Lincoln credit for those economic and scientific concepts is not really correct either.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: kpetschulat on December 30, 2012, 03:13:50 am
Rail roads, telegrams, mass production.

That's infrastructure, and had little to no effect on a revolution of warfare.

You are very naive if you believe that infrastructre and communications had no impact on warfare. Logistics and communications is one of the fundamental things that determine the success or failure of campaigns. Poor communication essentially lost quatre-bras for the french since d'Erlons corps was playing pong between Napoleon and Ney since there was a breakdown in communications. Not to mention logistics being a huge part of why the Russian campaign failed for napoleon.

Having said that though, giving Lincoln credit for those economic and scientific concepts is not really correct either.

You mistook what I said, as most people do on the World Wide Internet.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on December 30, 2012, 03:28:54 am
Rail roads, telegrams, mass production.

That's infrastructure, and had little to no effect on a revolution of warfare.

You are very naive if you believe that infrastructre and communications had no impact on warfare. Logistics and communications is one of the fundamental things that determine the success or failure of campaigns. Poor communication essentially lost quatre-bras for the french since d'Erlons corps was playing pong between Napoleon and Ney since there was a breakdown in communications. Not to mention logistics being a huge part of why the Russian campaign failed for napoleon.

Having said that though, giving Lincoln credit for those economic and scientific concepts is not really correct either.

You mistook what I said, as most people do on the World Wide Internet.

Then please do explain.

Anyhow, as Hekko stated, advancements in infrastructure is not something Lincoln is to be praised for.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: kpetschulat on December 30, 2012, 04:15:48 am
Rail roads, telegrams, mass production.

That's infrastructure, and had little to no effect on a revolution of warfare.

What I meant is that Lincoln did not revolutionize warfare, and infrastructure does not either. Infrastructure has an effect on war, but did not "revolutionize" it.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Windom on December 30, 2012, 05:19:32 am
So, leaaders were communicating with telegrams and using railroad systems to transport men to the front before Lincoln? ??? The telegram was invented in 1844, I'm pretty sure he is the first along with other ACW leaders. I made my statement to broad, I should have said introduced modern warfare or something along those lines.

Edit submarines, photographs also.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Blobmania on December 30, 2012, 05:49:41 am
I think the point being made here is that Ol' Abe didn't invent any of those things. Anyone else around at the time could have used them just as he did, he didn't directly cause their invention or use.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: TheBoberton on December 30, 2012, 05:51:34 am
Lincoln? Submarines? Lol.

The first submarine to sink an enemy vessel was Confederate.

And both the telegraph and railway saw service in the Crimean War, half a decade before the American Civil War.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Windom on December 30, 2012, 06:28:08 am
I threw in submarines and photographs to support the statement that the ACW was the first modern war. Lincoln didn't create any of these things, but in my opinion used them the best. I never looked into The Crimean War, which ultimately made me look stupid. My apologies for my ignorance, may this dispute be over.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on December 30, 2012, 11:01:29 am
Rail roads, telegrams, mass production.

That's infrastructure, and had little to no effect on a revolution of warfare.

What I meant is that Lincoln did not revolutionize warfare, and infrastructure does not either. Infrastructure has an effect on war, but did not "revolutionize" it.

I think railroads and telegrams actually DID revolutionize warfare. Instead of weeks marching or days riding, both men and messages could be sent faster then ever.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hekko on December 30, 2012, 12:48:22 pm
Rail roads, telegrams, mass production.

That's infrastructure, and had little to no effect on a revolution of warfare.

What I meant is that Lincoln did not revolutionize warfare, and infrastructure does not either. Infrastructure has an effect on war, but did not "revolutionize" it.

I must protest most strongly, you seem to only be thinking of warfare on a tactical and operational level, not the strategic one where he changes make an enormous difference, moving troops from one front to an other etc.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Craig on December 31, 2012, 02:53:58 am
Just look at the Russian Civil war between the reds and the whites, the anti bolshevik forces vastly outnumbered the Bolsheviks, but Trotsky made use of the main railway line in Russia, basically turning his train into a moving headquarters, in which he could give speeches to the men, and deploy troops at any point that was attacked, the use of the railroad in warfare cannot be underestimated.

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on December 31, 2012, 03:24:29 am
I think nobody denies that having access to superior infrastructure ( Lines of communication, better possibilities for supplies and reinforcements and so on) is helpful. However, I'd argue that it did not revolutionize warfare, in the sense of from the point that railways and telegraphs were invented, and indeed before this, beginning with the national armies of the french revolution, and 1914, warfare looked very much the same.

It was not until World war I that war was truly "revolutionized" here in the west.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hekko on December 31, 2012, 03:33:13 am
I think nobody denies that having access to superior infrastructure ( Lines of communication, better possibilities for supplies and reinforcements and so on) is helpful. However, I'd argue that it did not revolutionize warfare, in the sense of from the point that railways and telegraphs were invented, and indeed before this, beginning with the national armies of the french revolution, and 1914, warfare looked very much the same.

It was not until World war I that war was truly "revolutionized" here in the west.

We are discussing orders of magnitude here, warfare has constantly been undergoing change at different rates. For me the strategic changes brought by better communication and infrastructure certainly constitutes a revolution for the grander scale of war, certainly as important as the machine gun. And the strategic importance of these factorsmay very well make them operational and tactical objectives.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: John Campbell on January 01, 2013, 11:21:42 pm
Charles Cornwallis maybe?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Ronan6793 on January 02, 2013, 02:21:53 am
Mines has to be William Wallace and Robert the Bruce.

A few reasons why:

1.Im Scottish
2.Mainly the way they United The Nobles of Scotland to fight together and defeat the English army Gaining us independence
And yes i know most people think of braveheart... (you know with the Kilt wearing Rabble from the north but Scotland had mailed infantry and cavalry)

I would give more but im tired and its Half one in the Morning

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.directart.co.uk%2Fmall%2Fimages%2Fdhm1169.jpg&hash=2cc3b5d6a9b9f1d2fc47be0a741db389)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Francis Warren on January 02, 2013, 03:13:06 am
Either Genghis Khan for taking the whole of asia (not including Russia), and probably Alexander the Great, or Rameses III or Julius Caesar, each of these either protected their land or gained massive empires that spanned for centuries.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: GoldenEagle on January 04, 2013, 09:19:17 pm
1. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - Fought off the British, French, Italian, Armenians, Greeks, Greek armed gangs, Ottomans, USA ( helped Financially), Turkish traitors, and New Zealand/Australian troops.

2. Napoleon Bonaparte - No need to explain really

3. Caesar - Fighting off hordes with Barbarians while outnumbered and still win several times is really impressing.

4. Suleyman the magnificent - This guy was the Ottoman sultanate that expanded the empire most, his tactics was impressing and he made the Ottoman empire a superpower of its time.

5. Osman I - A handfull of Turkish tribesmen takes on the byzantines. The founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman succeeded his father to a small territory granted by the Seljuk Turks. He followed the gazi tradition, expanding and enriching his empire.

6. Murat II - Capturing Istanbul (Constantinopel) from the Byzanties after several days of siege. When he entered Constantinopel, he opened a new age (Can't remember which age tho)

7. Hannibal - Speaks for him self

8. Djengis Khan - Made the biggest empire ever in history, nuff said. (Nearly forgot this guy)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Scrat555 on January 06, 2013, 02:08:36 am
1. Jan Zizka

2. Genghis Khan

3. Suvorov
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: James Stewart on January 06, 2013, 02:11:51 am
Mines has to be William Wallace and Robert the Bruce.

A few reasons why:

1.Im Scottish
2.Mainly the way they United The Nobles of Scotland to fight together and defeat the English army Gaining us independence
And yes i know most people think of braveheart... (you know with the Kilt wearing Rabble from the north but Scotland had mailed infantry and cavalry)

I would give more but im tired and its Half one in the Morning

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.directart.co.uk%2Fmall%2Fimages%2Fdhm1169.jpg&hash=2cc3b5d6a9b9f1d2fc47be0a741db389)
[close]
Which you then lost.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Blobmania on January 06, 2013, 12:16:33 pm
Tavington, don't be provocative.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Connzcdf on January 06, 2013, 12:21:36 pm
Castro and Che Guavara. I like communism and ponies and army people.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on January 06, 2013, 01:39:43 pm
Tavington, don't be provocative.

Tarleton ftw.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: James Stewart on January 07, 2013, 12:47:56 am
Tavington, don't be provocative.
Wasn't being provocative was simply providing a counter argument to his statement is all.

Anyway, mine would have to be Edward Longshanks the former English King, equally inspirational to me is Margret Thatcher, she really was the Iron Lady and was the only proper PM in the past 60 years who stood up for what she believed in and wasn't afraid of what people thought.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Bluehawk on January 07, 2013, 03:39:32 am
Las Malvinas son Argentinas!
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: James Stewart on January 07, 2013, 04:17:02 am
Las Malvinas son Argentinas!
No.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dreogan on January 07, 2013, 05:03:26 am
It's hard to pick one in particular.

George Washington? -Don't like him too much... (Played to much Assassin's Creed 3 and I support the Villan Charles Lee in killing Washington).

Hannibal Barca? -Perhaps as a Warlord I see him more fit but as the Greatest General of all times... He's a Great General but he lacks skill in other areas.

Napoleon Bonaparte? - No, because he's French. *Trolls Face*

Julius Caesar? - I like him and he archieved a great deal of things, like "Destroying" my Ancestors! (Belgican Tribes)

Cao Cao? -Some of you may not know him but he trurly won a great deal of Battles and set the Stage for China to get unified.

Oda Nobunaga? -I honestly think I admire him the most of all the people mentioned before, Okehazam can't be overlooked. Famous for the quote: Is that so? (Also one of the three Unifiers of Japan).

Alexander The Not so Great? - The most overrated prick of all time, he gets far more glory than he deserves. (Lets get in the freacking desert to gangbang one tiny fucking village).

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on January 07, 2013, 08:54:58 am
Alexander The Not so Great? - The most overrated prick of all time, he gets far more glory than he deserves. (Lets get in the freacking desert to gangbang one tiny fucking village).

I would not call the persian empire, nor the area between modern day Turkey, Egypt and India "one tiny fucking village". And Gangbang is hardly correct either.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Agovich on January 08, 2013, 11:46:30 pm
1) Generalissimo Alexander Vasilievich Suvorov
Full name
Aleksandr Vasiliyevich Suvorov, Prince of Italy, Count of Rymnik, Count of the Holy Roman Empire, Prince of Sardinia, Generalissimo of Russia's Ground and Naval forces, Field Marshal of the Austrian and Sardinian armies; seriously wounded six times, he was the recipient of the Order of St. Andrew the First Called Apostle, Order of St. George the Bringer of Victory First Class, Order of St. Vladimir First Class, Order of St. Alexander Nevsky, Order of St. Anna First Class, Grand Cross of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem, (Austria) Order of Maria Teresa First Class, (Prussia) Order of the Black Eagle, Order of the Red Eagle, the Pour le Merite, (Sardinia) Order of the Revered Saints Maurice and Lazarus, (Bavaria) Order of St. Gubert, the Golden Lionness, (France) United Orders of the Carmelite Virgin Mary and St. Lazarus (on 20. April 1800), (Poland) Order of the White Eagle, the Order of Saint Stanislaus.
[close]

One of a few leaders who had never participated in a (including commanding ) lost a battle ( 63 won, 0 lost ), who had helped 8 wars to be won for Russia
( Russo-Swedish War (1741–1743) - Win
War of the Austrian Succession - Win
Seven Years' War - Win
Bar Confederation - Win
Russo-Turkish War (1768–1774) - Win
Russo-Turkish War (1787–1792) - Win
Kościuszko Uprising - Win
War of the Second Coalition - Win )
Truly above all standards of modern history

2) Graf, Vladika Petar I Petrović-Njegoš ( Petar I of Montenegro, St. Petar of Cetinje <as of 1832> )

His military qualities and level of authority stay unquestioned, his wonderful diplomatic means to unite the "tribes" of Montenegro ( Montenegro existed as "independant" 1711-est, but was more decentralized than the Holy Roman Empire lol  :D ).

His destroyal of the Turkish army and organization of a new, modern, well-equipped Montenegrin army ( 1785-1796 ) , continuing by his fine diplomacy are simply beautiful.
The organization of the country to repel the until-than undefeated French Army, which was overwhelming south Dalmatia and heading for the Russian ally Montenegro was simply brilliant.

He is the "Father of Montenegro", as we might say it, and was quite a great writer too.

3) General-Field-Marshal Mikhail Ilarionovich Goletnishev-Kutuzov, Prince of Smolensk

Even though much thrown-out by Tsar Alexander I, Kutuzov has shown himself as a fine army leader and as a friend to his men, following his "trainer", Suvorov. By me, the best language-knowing Russian of that period ( Russian, English, French, German, Polish, Swedish, and Turkish ).
Such a man to be so great to enter the speech of the old Communist Stalin in 1941.
His brilliancy and trough-time training of many other staff officers who had become the best officers in Europe ( such as Mikhail S. Voronitsov, Petr Ivanovich Bagration and many, many others ) are unquestionable by anyone.

The man who defeated the Frenchie - Napoleon, if it wasn't for him, we'd probably all be singing "La Marseillaise" today all across Europe, so we owe him a big "Thanks" :)

4) Napoleon 1er Bonaparte, Emperor of the French

Conquester of all Europe, a man of truly a fine sight for politics and military commanding, with his introduction of the Napoleonic Code he has created a base for all those politicians today to bullshit us with their long no-use speeches, but Napoleon probably didn't see it this way. His brilliant destroying of the Austrians, British, Prussians, tons of Italian states, Turks (1798), many, many Russians ( 1805-7, 1812 <until sept.> ) and many others, an admirer of none-the-less but Alexander the Great of Macedonia, he is most certainly the best western-Europe countries military leader of all time.

5) Marshal of Yugoslavia Josip Broz Tito

A man of no known origin of any kind, born to a peasant family in that-day Austria-Hungary, that far 1896 on the border between Slovenia and Croatia, in a village near the present-day town of Kumrovec. A Communist and people-lover by heart, Tito became the leader of the Communist Party of the that-day Kingdom of Yugoslavia, and has spent quite a lot of time getting beaten in jail for it.
He is also known as the leader with the most names - over 100, of whom one was "Tito" and the nickname stayed forever. In 1941 he announces the Communist uprising against the invaders of Yugoslavia (Nazis), and immediatelly gets support of the Montenegrin Royal Army in the Fatherland ( who has been fighting the Serbian occupation of Montenegro for 20 years by than ). He starts off with 17000 partizans in 1941, alongside 4000 Montenegrin Royalists and the shortly-allied 15000 Chetniks, and finishes with a semi-elite army of 700.000 by May 8th 1945.

He was the president of Yugoslavia for 35 years, and died in 1980 holding the rank "Marshal of Yugoslavia", he was the last of the allied leaders to pass away (Churchil, Stalin, Truman, de Gaule, Chank-kai Shek <sorry if wrongly written> ), and his funeral was with the largest delegation attendancy ever recorded in history. Truly a great man, he has made the Yugoslav countries have everything they have today. During the '90s he was described as an evil man due to proclaiming the 90s leaders criminals and locking them up, and what had they made - a war with at least 200.000 cassualties, for nothing, for stupid borders of now-seven pitiful countries that got nothing except nothing. The people of the former Yugoslavia are starting to realize that Tito was the better option, though it's too late.....

That's my top 5, and without details, here are the other 5 ( to get top 10 :D )

6) Prime Minister of the Empire Winston Churchill
7) Marshal of the Soviet Union Georgy Zhukov
8 ) Peter the Great
9) George Washington
10) Otto von Bismarck
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hekko on January 09, 2013, 12:58:46 am
Suvorov is deffinetly a a fitting choise for great leaders :)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tiberius on January 13, 2013, 05:53:59 am
Scipio Afrakanus. Talk about saving Rome's butt from Hannibal from studying his every move, then developing his tactics based on his enemies.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: skoutatoi on January 19, 2013, 01:35:21 am
Admiral Yi-Sun-Shin - Almost singlehandedly saved korean who was outmatched, outnumbered and literally outgunned. He lead 13 ships to beat 300, and pioneered the use of the first ironclad warship in history.

Georgy Zhukov - was one of the main reasons why the soviets held off the nazis, an amazing general, and arguably the best one in WW2(mannerheim is up there too), patton was good but zhukov......yeah #1(and im american)

Alexios Commenos - became the byzantine emperor through subterfuge, wiped out the pechenegs and cumans,repelled the norman invasions, helped spark the crusades and reconquered a rather large portion of anatolia, imo he was the best byzantine emperor(justinian is overrated, he overstretched the empire waaaaaaay to much)

Mithridates the Great - was a complete badass and beat rome up pretty well for some time.......and then rome recovered. Also look up the asiatic vespers

Skanderbeg - one of the greatest but most unknown generals in history, he led albania and held off the ottoman empire for 25 years. 1443 till 1468 and then albania was still resisted for 10 more years. He was always outnumbered but through tactics and knowledge of the terrain he held off the entire ottoman empire, the porte would send 100k soldiers his way he would repulse them.  People quote the peninsular war as the first widespread use of guerilla tactics but they seem to have no clue about albania fighting the ottomans. Note skanderbeg's decsendants still live in southern italy today(also the bloodline of the palailogai is mixed in there as well, so they're descended from him and the last of the byzantine emperors)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: GoldenEagle on January 19, 2013, 10:18:29 am
1) Generalissimo Alexander Vasilievich Suvorov
Full name
Aleksandr Vasiliyevich Suvorov, Prince of Italy, Count of Rymnik, Count of the Holy Roman Empire, Prince of Sardinia, Generalissimo of Russia's Ground and Naval forces, Field Marshal of the Austrian and Sardinian armies; seriously wounded six times, he was the recipient of the Order of St. Andrew the First Called Apostle, Order of St. George the Bringer of Victory First Class, Order of St. Vladimir First Class, Order of St. Alexander Nevsky, Order of St. Anna First Class, Grand Cross of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem, (Austria) Order of Maria Teresa First Class, (Prussia) Order of the Black Eagle, Order of the Red Eagle, the Pour le Merite, (Sardinia) Order of the Revered Saints Maurice and Lazarus, (Bavaria) Order of St. Gubert, the Golden Lionness, (France) United Orders of the Carmelite Virgin Mary and St. Lazarus (on 20. April 1800), (Poland) Order of the White Eagle, the Order of Saint Stanislaus.
[close]

One of a few leaders who had never participated in a (including commanding ) lost a battle ( 63 won, 0 lost ), who had helped 8 wars to be won for Russia
( Russo-Swedish War (1741–1743) - Win
War of the Austrian Succession - Win
Seven Years' War - Win
Bar Confederation - Win
Russo-Turkish War (1768–1774) - Win
Russo-Turkish War (1787–1792) - Win
Kościuszko Uprising - Win
War of the Second Coalition - Win )
Truly above all standards of modern history

The Russo-Turkish wars should not even count. They had way more men. On the Russian side it was nearly 1 million, while Ottomans had 281 000 men.  ;) (No offence)

Edit: And they had much better technology too.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Blobmania on January 19, 2013, 07:21:39 pm
In addition to my previous favourites, I'd also like to throw in Brasidas and Alcibiades from the Peloponnesian war between Sparta and Athens. Brasidas was an incredible General and leader, and led one of the most successful Spartan campaigns in history. Alcibiades was easily the most able general of his time, and should he have been able to remain as an Athenian general I believe that Athens would almost definitely have won the war. His contributions to the Spartan strategy when he was forced to defect, and simply his lack of involvement in military affairs in Athens after his second banishment really put Athens on the back foot.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: madskyfall on January 20, 2013, 11:11:53 pm
Lord Wellington!

Showing Napoleon who is the boss at Waterloo with help from the Prussians!
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on January 20, 2013, 11:14:22 pm
Lord Wellington!

Showing Napoleon who is the boss at Waterloo with help from the Prussians!

Must...Resist...
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Connzcdf on January 20, 2013, 11:19:42 pm
Lord Wellington!

Showing Napoleon who is the boss at Waterloo with help from the Prussians!

Must...Resist...
*Holds Durring back* It's not worth it m8. It's ok m8 he didn't mean it m8.  ;)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: MichaelJ.Caboose on January 21, 2013, 02:36:01 am
I would have to give it to Dan Sickles general of the 3rd Corps in the Army of the Potomac

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcovers.openlibrary.org%2Fb%2Fid%2F2078049-M.jpg&hash=13515f57000b7c7a7733617426163c96)

Sickles to me is one of the most interesting and colorful characters of the Civil War. Before the war he Sickles shot and killed the son of Francis Scott Key over a woman he was in love with. When he was on trial he used a defense of temporary insanity, the first time the defense had been used in the United States Then at Gettysburg he, depending how you view it almost lost....or saved the battle. He moved almost 1/2 a mile out in front of where he was supposed to be. During Longsteet's attack he lost his leg to a cannon ball, and when we was being taken away was relaxing and smoking a cigar. (He won the medal of honor for his fighting at Gettysburg.) 

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fc%2Fcd%2FSickles_leg.jpg&hash=37eb12528b9782840e6c14671128b76c)

A lot of people say he almost could of lost the battle but his view was, by moving into his position so far ahead of the main line, tired Longsteet's men that they couldn't take Little Round Top.  After the battle he declared himself a hero.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Bluehawk on January 21, 2013, 03:25:03 am
The Russo-Turkish wars should not even count. They had way more men. On the Russian side it was nearly 1 million, while Ottomans had 281 000 men.  ;) (No offence)

Edit: And they had much better technology too.

He was outnumbered at Kozluca, Focşani and Rymnik where he delivered his decisive blows. They did have superior artillery though, and wide-spread use of the bayonet tended to trump the sabres the Ottomans still relied on in close quarters.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: MackCW on January 21, 2013, 04:58:19 am
I would have to give it to Dan Sickles general of the 3rd Corps in the Army of the Potomac

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcovers.openlibrary.org%2Fb%2Fid%2F2078049-M.jpg&hash=13515f57000b7c7a7733617426163c96)

Sickles to me is one of the most interesting and colorful characters of the Civil War. Before the war he Sickles shot and killed the son of Francis Scott Key over a woman he was in love with. When he was on trial he used a defense of temporary insanity, the first time the defense had been used in the United States Then at Gettysburg he, depending how you view it almost lost....or saved the battle. He moved almost 1/2 a mile out in front of where he was supposed to be. During Longsteet's attack he lost his leg to a cannon ball, and when we was being taken away was relaxing and smoking a cigar. (He won the medal of honor for his fighting at Gettysburg.) 

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fc%2Fcd%2FSickles_leg.jpg&hash=37eb12528b9782840e6c14671128b76c)

A lot of people say he almost could of lost the battle but his view was, by moving into his position so far ahead of the main line, tired Longsteet's men that they couldn't take Little Round Top.  After the battle he declared himself a hero.

His frequently disobeyed orders from his superiors...he was a ass imho not a great leader.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Blobmania on January 21, 2013, 08:50:27 am
In my personal opinion, anyone that "Declares" themselves a hero is an asshat.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on January 21, 2013, 01:03:52 pm
Michael Collins for being the founder of modern guerrilla warfare and forcing the most powerful empire at the time to concede defeat.

Buenaventura Durruti - Anarchist leader of the Durutti Collumn during the Spanish Civil War, took Catalonia and successfully implemented Anarchism, they rushed in the defense of Madrid and helped repulse the Nationalist attack.
He was quite an inspirational leader, too bad he got shot by a sniper early on in the civil war.

Che Guevara - Landed in Cuba with about 80 fellow revolutionaries and they effectively ended Batista's rule through guerilla warfare, he was a very driven man and continued his revolutionary struggle after Cuba was Liberated. He was executed after an unsuccessful guerilla war in Bolivia by the CIA-backed government. He wrote a handbook on Guerilla warfare which is still used to this day.

Simón Bolívar - A Revolutionary leader, , he helped create democracies in South America through revolutionary struggle and creative subterfuge.

I thought i'd just add unusual leaders unlike the usual Napoleon, Alexander etc.



Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: GoldenEagle on January 21, 2013, 03:36:42 pm
The Russo-Turkish wars should not even count. They had way more men. On the Russian side it was nearly 1 million, while Ottomans had 281 000 men.  ;) (No offence)

Edit: And they had much better technology too.

He was outnumbered at Kozluca, Focşani and Rymnik where he delivered his decisive blows. They did have superior artillery though, and wide-spread use of the bayonet tended to trump the sabres the Ottomans still relied on in close quarters.

Oh you mean the Russo-Turkish war 1768-1774 , my fault bro  :) Then there is no means for me to call his victories against the Turks easy, BUT the Russo-Turkish War 1787–1792 was a really easy victory, as I stated above that Russians had 1 million while Ottomans was heavily outnumbered and out teched with 281 000 men.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Bluehawk on January 21, 2013, 03:56:29 pm
Focşani and Rymnik were fought in 1789. In both cases Suvorov was outnumbered by the Turks by at least 3:1.

The entire Russian army may have been a million strong, but they never committed anywhere near that many in the theatre of operations. Both Russian and Turkish sources cite 100,000 Russians total against 97,000 - granted, a Russian advantage.

"281,000" is the figure attributed to the Ottoman Army in 1877-78.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: GoldenEagle on January 21, 2013, 04:23:54 pm
Focşani and Rymnik were fought in 1789. In both cases Suvorov was outnumbered by the Turks by at least 3:1.

The entire Russian army may have been a million strong, but they never committed anywhere near that many in the theatre of operations. Both Russian and Turkish sources cite 100,000 Russians total against 97,000 - granted, a Russian advantage.

"281,000" is the figure attributed to the Ottoman Army in 1877-78.

Sorry for my ignorance, im not so good in Turkish-Russian wars! I was checking the wars he had fought because it was really impressing with 0 loss, then I came across wikipedia and misunderstood stuff :P
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on January 21, 2013, 06:31:44 pm
Buenaventura Durruti - Anarchist leader of the Durutti Collumn during the Spanish Civil War, took Catalonia and successfully implemented Anarchism, they rushed in the defense of Madrid and helped repulse the Nationalist attack.
He was quite an inspirational leader, too bad he got shot by a sniper early on in the civil war.

Doesn't Anarchists and leaders usually not get along very well?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on January 21, 2013, 07:54:51 pm
Doesn't Anarchists and leaders usually not get along very well?

When they started organising the Columns, They organised in groups of 10 and 10 groups would be called a Century.
The Group leader was the person who was nominated as your Group leader.
Then the 10 groups that made up the Century, nominated a Century delegate aka Commander.
Out of Friendship, or trust, or because of the persons personality, abilities etc someone would be chosen as commander.
Then it was same as usual, you had a proper commander chosen for his merit and orders were given and carried out.

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: 34th Artimus on January 22, 2013, 04:31:32 am
There are quite a few for me here...

1. Alexander the Great: As a military commander, in my eyes there has never been a man better. The odds he was stacked against both at home and abroad, and yet he led his army to victory after victory, conquering the largest empire in the known world in just a matter of years. I think his qualities as a king were lacking, however. He should have payed more attention to his people and a little less on conquering everything in sight.

2. Julius Caesar: Caesar knew both how to control an army and to control an empire. His term as dictator in the final years as the Republic heralded the end of that same Republic and his military conquest of Gaul followed by a huge civil war in which he defeated all of his opponents are incredibly worthy feats. I wonder what he could have accomplished if he had lived long enough to invade Parthia.

3. Subutai: The little I know about the Mongol commander doesn't detract from the fact he never lost a battle (I think). Subutai was the real Mongol threat from that entire horde. I feel sorry for all those thousands who went against him.

4. Erwin Rommel: I like his abilities as a general in North Africa. He was all that kept the Germans and Italians there from a complete and total defeat. If he had still been alive and in charge of the Normandy defenses during D-Day, I have a feeling it might have gone differently for the allies.

Those are mine for the time being. I know I have many more than that, but I don't want to mass post.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hawkes on January 22, 2013, 08:47:07 pm
Sun Tzu - just because I love his book.  :-[
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Bluehawk on January 22, 2013, 11:02:32 pm
4. Erwin Rommel: I like his abilities as a general in North Africa. He was all that kept the Germans and Italians there from a complete and total defeat. If he had still been alive and in charge of the Normandy defenses during D-Day, I have a feeling it might have gone differently for the allies.

Rommel was alive in June '44, and he wanted to concentrate the defense at Pont-de-Calais. Had he not been on leave at the time though, they may have released the armour in reserve earlier than they did.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on January 22, 2013, 11:38:45 pm
So you could say Rommels wifes birthday cost them the war?

Nicht slecht.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Ililsa on January 23, 2013, 12:06:31 am
He was also responsible for the defences against Glider units landing in Normandy. 'Rommel's asparagus' were wooden poles set up in fields (some of which I think he flooded) that were meant to tear apart a landing glider.

Of course, in the end, the airborne landings were disasters anyway, even if it did end up advantageous as the scattered paratrooper attacks gave the Germans the impression they were fighting a lot more men than they actually were.

I like Rommel too though. Particularly for the ideal of Krieg ohne Hass.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Skott on January 23, 2013, 05:45:12 pm
I have a lot of leaders that i like! But as I finds it to hard to do them in rank order I will just post my top 5 in random order:

1. Napoleon Bonaparte

2. Arthur Wellesley (more known as Duke of Wellington)

3. Horatio Nelson

4. Karl XII (a Swedish king 1682-1718)

5. George Washington

I chose those most because I like the time around 1700s to 1850s.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Frederickson on January 31, 2013, 07:27:30 am
So you could say Rommels wifes birthday cost them the war?

Nicht slecht.
Hitler having person control of 2 key panzer divisions cost them the battle for normandy and in turn the war.

Favourite leaders:

Vladimir Illych Ulyanov (Lenin)

Erwin Rommel

Alexander the Great

Napoleon

Marchal Lannes

Marshall Zhukov

Frederick the Great
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: 34th Artimus on January 31, 2013, 08:35:33 am
Bumping with a couple more.

1. Napoleon Bonaparte I: Our very own Napoleon has to take this list, as a general at the time, there were few men who could be equal. We speak in awe of his victories at battles such as Austerlitz, and his fine campaigning where he won battle after battle despite eventually losing the war when the Coalition had him on the run in France.

2. Arthur Wellesley: The Duke of Wellington is well remembered for his defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo, but it's for his earlier achievements that I bring him into this. His siege of Gawilghur (Spelling?) in India is no mean feat, as well as the battle of Assaye, which he always used to say was his toughest battle when people would ask him of it. His campaign through Portugal, Spain and eventually France is another example of his genius, managing to beat every Marshal Napoleon sent against him, even ousting the false King Joseph Bonaparte from Spain. And when he was finally matched against Napoleon, it was the good old Duke who bested him.

3. Trajan: The Roman Emperor who brought the Empire to its greatest extent upon his death in 117. He conducted a successful campaign against the Dacian kingdom, who were renowned for their savage fighting skills, having beaten Rome in a previous war and wiping out an entire legion. His subsequent invasion of Parthia was incredibly successful as far as Parthian campaigns go. He annexed Armenia as a Roman province, deposing the Parthian proclaimed king of the region and accepting the submission of multiple tribes in the area. He then began a conquest of Mesopotamia, taking the great cities of Babylon, Seleucia and finally, the Parthian capital of Ctesiphon itself. He even managed to depose the Parthian king, and wipe out a surge of resistance from the nephew of said king. It is a shame he wasn't a younger man, or he could have continued on with his conquest.

4. Alexander Suvorov: This Russian commander is one of few men who is famed for never losing a battle in his entire career. His tactics often employed decisive charges with the bayonet, preferring not to rely on musketry too much. And while my history on Suvorov is sadly lacking, even I can realise his genius. Once again, if he had been but a little younger, perhaps Napoleon wouldn't have had such success as he experienced.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Diplex on February 01, 2013, 08:49:49 am
Adolf Hitler and Bony.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Mad_man1 on February 01, 2013, 09:54:46 am
Lasalle
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Scrat555 on February 05, 2013, 10:17:45 pm
Adolf Hitler.
Eh? His own generals resented his control over the army. As they put it, he was a corporal leading an army, and he was a major reason Germany lost WWII. His direct control over the eastern front destroyed any chance the Germans had of winning. Although he got Germany on its feet after the post-WWI depression (no small feat), he was a cruddy military leader. Also, he was a mass-murderer. As far as evil goes, he fits the bill pretty well.

Personally, one of my favorite leaders is Jan Zizka. I also like Suvorov, but I feel Zizka is under-appreciated. Zizka pioneered mobile defensive warfare, using new technology (handgonnes and artillery) and new tactics (war wagons) to great effect. He lost both of his eyes, and led his forces blind while never losing a single battle (alongside Alexander the Great, Scipio Africanus, Genghis Khan, Alexander Suvorov, and Khalid ibn al-Walid). A typical example of a battle he fought would be Kunta Hora. It is typical because Zizka's peasantry is outnumbered 10-1, they are fighting the creme of the Hapsburg army (knights), and they win, inflicting heavy casualties.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on February 05, 2013, 10:23:40 pm
Lasalle

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-wDJpIdHzoiw%2FTvS7PY2tSgI%2FAAAAAAAABTs%2FMytKqO5n2SA%2Fs1600%2Fgeneral-antoine-charles-louis-lasalle-jean-baptiste-edouard-detaille.jpg&hash=fc5ccb80c4a99a4f93ffaa26f12ac397)
[close]

Best cavarlyman ever to have lived on this planet.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Rallix on February 05, 2013, 11:49:58 pm
Orlok Subutai, Mongol Empire.
Quote
Subutai (Mongolian: Сүбээдэй, Sübeedei; Classic Mongolian: Sübügätäi or Sübü'ätäi; Tsubodai 1175–1248) was the primary military strategist and general of Genghis Khan and Ögedei Khan. He directed more than twenty campaigns in which he conquered thirty-two nations and won sixty-five pitched battles, during which he conquered or overran more territory than any other commander in history.

He gained victory by means of imaginative and sophisticated strategies and routinely coordinated movements of armies that were hundreds of kilometers away from each other. He is also remembered for devising the campaign that destroyed the armies of Hungary and Poland within two days of each other, by forces over five hundred kilometers apart.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: 0xC000009D on February 06, 2013, 12:49:07 am
Hannibal, by far my favorite list of the leading companies in the world. Romans sent home in tears his unwavering courage and passion, so many times that it is worth between where the major planets. Capacity and skills, and met the enemy face to protect his people and the country from the impressive Roman imperialism, and not a leader, he was able to get even close. Innovative use of elephants to show their knowledge, in particular, because he is self-taught, even more. She specializes in tactical and tactical operations of the cavalry.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Rogov on February 06, 2013, 04:23:32 am
I've avoided this thread for far too long as it's really hard for me to pick just a couple... and it seems like they've all been said already!

Hmmm, lemme think... always thought Murat was pretty interesting guy, although admittedly not the most skilled of the Marshals, and a bit of a scumbag. :P

Also, no mention of Philip II of Macedon or Pyrrhus of Epirus? They were certainly effective commanders, albeit overshadowed by their son and (second) cousin respectively.

Nice to see Tsubodai getting some rep here, he's often overlooked. Genghis hardly did it all on his own (although the whole unification of the tribes was his doing).

Baibars: commander of the Mamluks, helped crush the Seventh Crusade, decisively defeated the mongols at Ain Jalut, and (likely) took part in the assassination of the previous sultan of Egypt before taking the throne himself. The first Mamluk sultan then went on to seriously mess up what was left of the crusader states. He was also an effective administrator and highly popular in the Muslim World.

Belisarius: the Byzantine general responsible for the Byzantine reconquest of much of the western Mediterranean under Justinian (despite a marked lack of support from the Emperor). Notably defeating the Vandal Kingdom in North Africa and the Ostrogothic Kingdom in Italy. Belisarius' conquests in orange below:
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbmssancientcivilizations.wikispaces.com%2Ffile%2Fview%2Forange_and_red_belisarius.png%2F143845623%2F455x216%2Forange_and_red_belisarius.png&hash=5662db1cb33862581837f8c4e36608b4)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Diplex on February 06, 2013, 10:51:13 pm
Adolf Hitler.
Eh? His own generals resented his control over the army. As they put it, he was a corporal leading an army, and he was a major reason Germany lost WWII. His direct control over the eastern front destroyed any chance the Germans had of winning. Although he got Germany on its feet after the post-WWI depression (no small feat), he was a cruddy military leader. Also, he was a mass-murderer. As far as evil goes, he fits the bill pretty well.

Personally, one of my favorite leaders is Jan Zizka. I also like Suvorov, but I feel Zizka is under-appreciated. Zizka pioneered mobile defensive warfare, using new technology (handgonnes and artillery) and new tactics (war wagons) to great effect. He lost both of his eyes, and led his forces blind while never losing a single battle (alongside Alexander the Great, Scipio Africanus, Genghis Khan, Alexander Suvorov, and Khalid ibn al-Walid). A typical example of a battle he fought would be Kunta Hora. It is typical because Zizka's peasantry is outnumbered 10-1, they are fighting the creme of the Hapsburg army (knights), and they win, inflicting heavy casualties.

"Leadership has been defined many ways but for the basis of this argument I find this one most all encompassing, leadership is "process of social influence in which one person can enlist the aid and support of others in the accomplishment of a common task." (1). If we use this definition we see where Hitler obviously excels in this category, he is one of the greatest orators of his day, and had the German people eating out of his hand.

You may be thinking that many men other then Hitler had this ability of influence but we see in Hitler the ability to inspire his people to switch from one distinct political ideology to another without bloodshed. He also brought Germany out of the deep depression they were suffering from in post world war 1 Europe. If we consider only that leadership is the ability of one person to influence others to support a common cause we see no equal to Hitler, no other person in history influenced as many people willingly into supporting one common cause without bloodshed.

Having given reasons why Hitler is one of the greatest leaders in history, i ask con to either disprove Hitler was a good leader or suggest a more influential individual in history."
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Warder on February 15, 2013, 11:56:17 am
Gen. Robert Lee IMO was a great leader and man, he fought against bigger armies and mostly won battles. Even Gettysburg was in my opinion a draw as a battle, of course CSA missed a chance of finishing the war, Lee after one day waiting for Union attack just retreated.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Wismar on February 22, 2013, 12:39:22 am
Karl XII of Sweden, Otto von Bismarck and Adolf Hitler.
All these have proven themself.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: DeoVindice61 on February 22, 2013, 02:36:06 am
John F. Reynolds.

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.retronaut.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F12%2FJohn-F.-Reynolds.jpg&hash=69f3d48664103c39daef00d9de983eb0)
[close]
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: TWking on February 22, 2013, 08:05:08 pm
Lannes
The french marshal who's legs where amputated after they got hit by a cannon while he was meditation
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F&hash=dc97a1ba2c3440318722266c77bc7fb8)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Desert Thunda on March 01, 2013, 01:16:26 pm
Adolf Hitler.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Archduke Sven on March 01, 2013, 03:38:40 pm
Lasalle

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-wDJpIdHzoiw%2FTvS7PY2tSgI%2FAAAAAAAABTs%2FMytKqO5n2SA%2Fs1600%2Fgeneral-antoine-charles-louis-lasalle-jean-baptiste-edouard-detaille.jpg&hash=fc5ccb80c4a99a4f93ffaa26f12ac397)
[close]

Best cavarlyman ever to have lived on this planet.

What about Murat? I always thought Murat had a better sense of fashion.

I still think LaSalle is the epitome of a Hussar, charging with a long pipe!
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: GoblinOverlord on March 01, 2013, 06:14:57 pm
Josip Broz Tito, because he united the Yugoslavians and, though defeated many times, eventually managed to defeat a superpower and free themselves, thereby preventing being annexed by the Soviets and later on, preventing Yugoslavia from becoming part of the Eastern Block.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on March 01, 2013, 06:19:12 pm
Gandhi.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on March 05, 2013, 09:26:18 pm
Gandhi.

Gandhi was a racist nationalist. He is wrongfully painted as a saint.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on March 05, 2013, 10:10:04 pm
Gandhi.

Gandhi was a racist nationalist.

Very true, but he did achieve a lot with non-violence, protests and uniting people with different convictions towards a common goal although he failed in the end when hetried to stop the fighting within India.

I just wanted to spice things up a bit from just Military leaders.

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Schmidtche on March 07, 2013, 05:18:22 pm
Spoiler
Adolf Hitler.
Eh? His own generals resented his control over the army. As they put it, he was a corporal leading an army, and he was a major reason Germany lost WWII. His direct control over the eastern front destroyed any chance the Germans had of winning. Although he got Germany on its feet after the post-WWI depression (no small feat), he was a cruddy military leader. Also, he was a mass-murderer. As far as evil goes, he fits the bill pretty well.

Personally, one of my favorite leaders is Jan Zizka. I also like Suvorov, but I feel Zizka is under-appreciated. Zizka pioneered mobile defensive warfare, using new technology (handgonnes and artillery) and new tactics (war wagons) to great effect. He lost both of his eyes, and led his forces blind while never losing a single battle (alongside Alexander the Great, Scipio Africanus, Genghis Khan, Alexander Suvorov, and Khalid ibn al-Walid). A typical example of a battle he fought would be Kunta Hora. It is typical because Zizka's peasantry is outnumbered 10-1, they are fighting the creme of the Hapsburg army (knights), and they win, inflicting heavy casualties.

"Leadership has been defined many ways but for the basis of this argument I find this one most all encompassing, leadership is "process of social influence in which one person can enlist the aid and support of others in the accomplishment of a common task." (1). If we use this definition we see where Hitler obviously excels in this category, he is one of the greatest orators of his day, and had the German people eating out of his hand.

You may be thinking that many men other then Hitler had this ability of influence but we see in Hitler the ability to inspire his people to switch from one distinct political ideology to another without bloodshed. He also brought Germany out of the deep depression they were suffering from in post world war 1 Europe. If we consider only that leadership is the ability of one person to influence others to support a common cause we see no equal to Hitler, no other person in history influenced as many people willingly into supporting one common cause without bloodshed.

Having given reasons why Hitler is one of the greatest leaders in history, i ask con to either disprove Hitler was a good leader or suggest a more influential individual in history."
[close]
I disagree on that "lead them out of depression" part. Many unemployed people were pushed into the army or the labour-group "Reichsarbeitsdienst" and this way just disappeared from the statistics.
Germany was also nearly bancrupt in 1938, as the economy was focused on military production and exports were in decrease.  Food was partially rationalized befor the war even started.
He was actually nearly forced to go to war in 1939, cause german economy would have collapsed otherwise.

The comment about "no bloodshed" is also debatable, cause germans who opposed his party were killed during and after his takeover.

Despite that, he of course is one of the most influential leaders in history, cause he still managed to get  the support of millions.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: GoldenEagle on March 07, 2013, 05:44:19 pm
Quote
He was actually nearly forced to go to war in 1939, cause german economy would have collapsed otherwise.

When he attacked Poland, he tought the world would turn the other cheek again as they did several times before. He wasn't expecting Britain and France to step up, especially because he made the Poles look like the first agressors by making his soldiers get in Polish uniforms and shoot against Germans (Im not sure if they actually shot at the soldiers or if they just shot some rounds into the air), who gave him some sort of a reason to invade Poland.


Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: MPC on March 08, 2013, 01:00:56 pm
One of my favourite all time leaders was not exactly a leader, but he was a vice president during Roosevelt's terms until that racist Truman got the Vice President ticket.

Henry A. Wallace.

The reason for this is what he stood for Pre World War 2, during, and afterwards. If Wallace would have won the vice presidential nomination (on Roosevelts 4th term) or even the presidency, the world after Roosevelts death would have looked entirely different, and maybe the nuclear arm's race could have been avoided.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: KillerMongoose on March 08, 2013, 03:00:54 pm
Just to name one, Spartacus. He leads his gladiators to freedom then gathers an army of slaves and uses unconventional tactics to smash the Roman army. It wasn't until he was betrayed and stranded in southern Italy, with vast legions pouring onto his men that he finally fell.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Jocam on March 10, 2013, 11:53:23 am
Charles Cornwallis
Erwin Rommel
Michael de Ruyter


Some of you said Adolf Hitler, though his strategic vision was clouded, he made hasty decisions, and overestimated his forces. also, his priority would lie with his own beliefs, and not with the fact of battle
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Schmidtche on March 11, 2013, 01:29:00 pm
Quote
He was actually nearly forced to go to war in 1939, cause german economy would have collapsed otherwise.

When he attacked Poland, he tought the world would turn the other cheek again as they did several times before. He wasn't expecting Britain and France to step up, especially because he made the Poles look like the first agressors by making his soldiers get in Polish uniforms and shoot against Germans (Im not sure if they actually shot at the soldiers or if they just shot some rounds into the air), who gave him some sort of a reason to invade Poland.

Oh he definitly wanted the war. That's how he ruined germany's economy, by spending every cent on weapons.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: GoldenEagle on March 11, 2013, 02:37:25 pm
Quote
He was actually nearly forced to go to war in 1939, cause german economy would have collapsed otherwise.

When he attacked Poland, he tought the world would turn the other cheek again as they did several times before. He wasn't expecting Britain and France to step up, especially because he made the Poles look like the first agressors by making his soldiers get in Polish uniforms and shoot against Germans (Im not sure if they actually shot at the soldiers or if they just shot some rounds into the air), who gave him some sort of a reason to invade Poland.

Oh he definitly wanted the war. That's how he ruined germany's economy, by spending every cent on weapons.

Okay... Did I say something against it?...
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Schmidtche on March 11, 2013, 05:15:17 pm
Not sure. I didn't see how your comment was connected to mine, so I just clarified.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: GoldenEagle on March 11, 2013, 05:49:58 pm
Not sure. I didn't see how your comment was connected to mine, so I just clarified.

He wasn't ready for war in 2 fronts. Just pointed that out.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Ryno2626 on April 04, 2013, 01:49:51 pm
MajGen Alexander Vandergrift, used a lot of really good tactics and made the most of his predicament.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Josef Lenin on April 12, 2013, 04:14:49 pm
Josef Davidoich Lenin, OH OH I KID. But seriously, my favorites would have to be
1. Alexander Nevsky- Achieved victory over Swedish , and German Invaders, but pussied out towards the golden horde
2. Alexander the Great- Do I really need to explain?
3. Napoleon- 19th Century version of this guy ^ except he lost
4. Alexander V. Suvorov - Great Russian General, said to have never lost a battle (bullshit)
5. Suleiman the Magnificent- Longest reigning Sultan of the Ottomans, and did a lotta conquering yo.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Landrik on April 12, 2013, 07:40:45 pm
...without bloodshed.

What about the backroom assassinations and his political thugs, the SA beating down the competition - mainly the communists? Sure, there was a lot of violence in politics after WWI (looking at you, freikorps), so surely you can't say it was bloodless.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Crusader on April 12, 2013, 10:29:10 pm
Caesar

'Nuff said
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Completenoob on April 13, 2013, 02:29:50 pm
Hitler having person control of 2 key panzer divisions cost them the battle for normandy and in turn the war.

As much as Rommel deserves his respect, I find it silly people put way too much emphasis on the different ideas about how to place the divisions and their respective deployment. Given how long any kind of armoured division can stretch in total length (hint = it's three digit number) during any kind of battlefield march even in good road conditions, France is relatively concentrated in that regard, and as many other generals noted, once they are deployed or have to move anywhere as reserve or not, they are chiefly on the mercy of good luck and how fast they can get there before the lines get clogged by air power. Not as much attrition or any kind of damage really, but simply preventing any focused and concentrated movement and clogging resupply chances pretty well altogether. Major troop movement already was restricted to night time only or limited in size because hey, even if 98% of the ordnance would miss or only damage soft skinned vehicles, you are not exactly going anywhere when you have few flights of aircraft bombing and harassing the fuck out of you. All it takes is few clogs on the road and the entire column is halted until it can be cleared. Sure, it would have given them a lot better chance to defend against the initial wave and perhaps even succeed, but had something gone wrong, it would have been instant disastrous loss of Panzer reserve since any organised retreat would have been very difficult to pull off, and most of the equipment would have been left behind, which would have probably resulted in very rapid collapse of the front, even if they might have given very bloody nose to the Western powers.

Prime example between jumping in pool of piss or taking bucket of shit down your neck. Your choice.  :P

Oh, and arguably the closer they are at the beaches, the greater risk of adding naval artillery as another factor to restrict movement once the location is pinpointed. Once again, it's not as much about attrition as it is simply about complete denial with some attrition involved, especially when most of AFVs don't have the privilege of staying in coastal fortifications that intentionally halted their activities for a moment in order to avoid drawing fire.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Lantking on April 15, 2013, 08:05:38 am
1. Napoleon
2. Julius Caesar
3. Alexander The Great
4. General Robert E. Lee
5. William Wallace
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: saturnplanet on April 15, 2013, 01:49:11 pm
Kolonel of the 8de, forget his name though :/
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on April 15, 2013, 03:24:54 pm
Kolonel of the 8de, forget his name though :/

Lt. Kolonel Wybrand Adriaan De Jongh.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: von_Bismarck on April 16, 2013, 05:59:16 pm
the Queen Victoria.

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbordercollie.com.mx%2Fsite%2Fphp%2Fuploads%2FVictoriaAndSharp.jpg&hash=5cf2bf418f62a3553592cb4faa98fa17)


Otto von Bismarck,  ::)
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F1%2F10%2FBundesarchiv_Bild_146-2005-0057%252C_Otto_von_Bismarck.jpg&hash=611ffbe52615ead1340243493e17bcde)

Willhelm II, the Kaiser of all the germans.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fe%2Fed%2FKaiser_Wilhelm_Ii_and_Germany_1890_-_1914_HU68367.jpg&hash=92667ed319b4e805c0e5c2686192ce1f)


 :)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Allasaphore on April 22, 2013, 08:18:35 pm
I'd argue for the following:

Napoleon I of France
Frederick II "the Great" of Prussia
Peter I "the Great" of Russia
Henry IV of France
Albert "the Great" of Wessex/England
Louis XIV of France
Charles V of Austria/Holy Roman Empire, Carlos II of Spain
Pope Julius II (Warrior Pope +10)
Don Juan of Austria
Karl XII of Sweden
Gustavus Augustus of Sweden


The list goes on, and on, and on, and on.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Emperor Napoleon on April 22, 2013, 08:29:58 pm
the Queen Victoria.

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbordercollie.com.mx%2Fsite%2Fphp%2Fuploads%2FVictoriaAndSharp.jpg&hash=5cf2bf418f62a3553592cb4faa98fa17)


Otto von Bismarck,  ::)
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F1%2F10%2FBundesarchiv_Bild_146-2005-0057%252C_Otto_von_Bismarck.jpg&hash=611ffbe52615ead1340243493e17bcde)

Willhelm II, the Kaiser of all the germans.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fe%2Fed%2FKaiser_Wilhelm_Ii_and_Germany_1890_-_1914_HU68367.jpg&hash=92667ed319b4e805c0e5c2686192ce1f)


 :)
Victoria looks as if she couldn't be bothered with life.

3 guesses to who my favorite leader is ;)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on April 22, 2013, 08:36:37 pm
Victoria always wore black after her beloved husband Albert died. That's for about six decades, if I'm not mistaken.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Emperor Napoleon on April 22, 2013, 08:37:25 pm
Victoria always wore black after her beloved husband Albert died. That's for about six decades, if I'm not mistaken.
Im talking about her face. Its like "Am I bovered?"
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: AeroNinja on April 22, 2013, 08:38:32 pm
My Colonel From the 84e Aldemar! :D

Napoleon was the best. :P
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on April 22, 2013, 09:10:06 pm
Victoria always wore black after her beloved husband Albert died. That's for about six decades, if I'm not mistaken.
Im talking about her face. Its like "Am I bovered?"

At least she looks into the camera. Until the 1900s it seems the fashion of photographing was: Look in every general direction but the photographer.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Jocam on April 22, 2013, 09:59:54 pm
Victoria always wore black after her beloved husband Albert died. That's for about six decades, if I'm not mistaken.
Im talking about her face. Its like "Am I bovered?"

At least she looks into the camera. Until the 1900s it seems the fashion of photographing was: Look in every general direction but the photographer.

It shows superiority: When you look as if you have got more important stuff to do, you are important, especially since taking a picture like that was a special event.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Josef Lenin on April 26, 2013, 11:51:08 pm
Bond
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dekkers on April 26, 2013, 11:57:41 pm
Leonidas, a big part of the Greek army fled, he, quite some spartans and a small part of the greek army stood their ground and killed quite some Persians even though they got trapped because of a traitor that showed the Persions a secret route.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: The Nutty Pig on April 27, 2013, 01:07:46 am
Leonidas, a big part of the Greek army fled, he, quite some spartans and a small part of the greek army stood their ground and killed quite some Persians even though they got trapped because of a traitor that showed the Persions a secret route.
Wow they should really make a graphic novel out of that, then turn it into a film featuring the likes of Gerard Butler, Lena Headey and Dominic West!
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Allasaphore on April 28, 2013, 06:16:44 am
Leonidas, a big part of the Greek army fled, he, quite some spartans and a small part of the greek army stood their ground and killed quite some Persians even though they got trapped because of a traitor that showed the Persions a secret route.

Leonidas did fight and die at Thermopylae, but I believe you have the rest of the story messed up. Most historians presently agree that the withdraw of most of the Greek forces (excluding around 300 Spartans and 1000 Thespians) was planned out. The rearguard of Spartans and Thespians were in place to enable the other Greek hoplites to escape to their respective city states, and to live to fight another day. Regretfully, soldiers belonging to one of the city states had previously abandoned the mountain pass leading to the Greek flank, which triggered this withdraw (upon learning of this).

Let's also not forget the concurrent battle of Artemisium, where the Athenian/Greek Navy under Themistocles fought the Persian navy, and was forced to withdraw.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on April 29, 2013, 09:08:27 am
Leonidas, a big part of the Greek army fled, he, quite some spartans and a small part of the greek army stood their ground and killed quite some Persians even though they got trapped because of a traitor that showed the Persions a secret route.

Did you honestly just use "300" as a valid historical source?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Gokiller on April 29, 2013, 09:10:24 am
Leonidas, a big part of the Greek army fled, he, quite some spartans and a small part of the greek army stood their ground and killed quite some Persians even though they got trapped because of a traitor that showed the Persions a secret route.

Did you honestly just use "300" as a valid historical source?

Not everyone is such an historical bad ass like you Tali, get over it! :P
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on April 29, 2013, 09:15:46 am
Leonidas, a big part of the Greek army fled, he, quite some spartans and a small part of the greek army stood their ground and killed quite some Persians even though they got trapped because of a traitor that showed the Persions a secret route.

Did you honestly just use "300" as a valid historical source?

Not everyone is such an historical bad ass like you Tali, get over it! :P

No, seriously, this is beyond dumb. Who can honestly think 300 has any but basic roots in history. It's like citing Lord of the Rings for medieval history class.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Gokiller on April 29, 2013, 09:21:22 am
Leonidas, a big part of the Greek army fled, he, quite some spartans and a small part of the greek army stood their ground and killed quite some Persians even though they got trapped because of a traitor that showed the Persions a secret route.

Did you honestly just use "300" as a valid historical source?

Not everyone is such an historical bad ass like you Tali, get over it! :P

No, seriously, this is beyond dumb. Who can honestly think 300 has any but basic roots in history. It's like citing Lord of the Rings for medieval history class.

It is not that far off...
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on April 29, 2013, 09:27:08 am
Leonidas, a big part of the Greek army fled, he, quite some spartans and a small part of the greek army stood their ground and killed quite some Persians even though they got trapped because of a traitor that showed the Persions a secret route.

Did you honestly just use "300" as a valid historical source?

Not everyone is such an historical bad ass like you Tali, get over it! :P

No, seriously, this is beyond dumb. Who can honestly think 300 has any but basic roots in history. It's like citing Lord of the Rings for medieval history class.

It is not that far off...

Well, it does contain Greeks fighting persians, and it does contain references to battles that took place. That's about it, really.

You can, as a rule, not trust the historical accuracy of a hollywood movie.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on April 29, 2013, 10:42:31 am
Not just hollywood. Have you ever seen those Russian movies? They sure are 'intresting'.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on April 29, 2013, 11:00:57 am
Not just hollywood. Have you ever seen those Russian movies? They sure are 'intresting'.

To be honest, some aspects of Soviet moviemaking industries were alot more accurate then their western counterparts. For example, all soviet movies either had to be realistic, or clearly fantasy.

So, for exampel, Soviet spy movies was alot more slower paced, and thus more realistic then the Bond movies.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on April 29, 2013, 11:17:09 am
I'm more talking about the modern movies. Lancers balled, 1612, etc.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on April 29, 2013, 11:30:41 am
I'm more talking about the modern movies. Lancers balled, 1612, etc.

Oh. Well, I can't, with a good conscience, say I watch many modern russian movies.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: kpetschulat on April 29, 2013, 02:51:08 pm
...1612...

That was a great movie. I loved it. I had watched it with a Russian friend of mine quite a few years ago. It was very heavily based on fantasy, but had some pretty good ties to the time.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on April 29, 2013, 03:37:47 pm
While I agree it's a great movie with some nice action, historically it's la-di-da.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Josef Lenin on April 30, 2013, 02:49:30 am
Kim Jong Il
RIP
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: The Nutty Pig on May 02, 2013, 10:26:56 pm
Kim Jong Il
RIP
Good dreams, sweet prince
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: El_Presidente on May 02, 2013, 10:49:33 pm
Cunningham A.B.  -  British admiral from WW2 (Probably 3rd/2nd best admiral from the war)

Responsible for the first naval all aircraft attack in history (Very successful attack on Taranto in 1941, before Pearl Harbour) and the devestation of the Italian battle fleet at the Battle of Cape Matapan.

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.staticflickr.com%2F4132%2F4959390889_9acbf8ca84_o.jpg&hash=45e8e127a70e4a21e3364fd4f7fee147)

Yay for ABC! (His nickname #yolo)

Flagships:
HMS Rodney (Very famous battleship)
HMS Scorpion (Crappy destroyer)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dekkers on May 03, 2013, 12:06:12 am
Cunningham A.B.  -  British admiral from WW2 (Probably 3rd/2nd best admiral from the war)

Responsible for the first naval all aircraft attack in history (Very successful attack on Taranto in 1941, before Pearl Harbour) and the devestation of the Italian battle fleet at the Battle of Cape Matapan.

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.staticflickr.com%2F4132%2F4959390889_9acbf8ca84_o.jpg&hash=45e8e127a70e4a21e3364fd4f7fee147)

Yay for ABC! (His nickname #yolo)

Flagships:
HMS Rodney (Very famous battleship)
HMS Scorpion (Crappy destroyer)

Who was the best admiral then :D
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: El_Presidente on May 03, 2013, 09:50:08 pm
Hmmmm that's difficult to say as he never faced Yamamto, Fletcher or Nimitz  :-\.

He was a revolutionary tactician though, so he might have won. The British fleet was also virtually unchallenged (When massed together  :P) until about 1943 when American industry kicked in. The British fleet was tremendous in size, but of course had poo aircraft carriers so who knows?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: masterborn12 on May 05, 2013, 12:44:24 am
´´sweden owning russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dekkers on May 05, 2013, 12:47:03 am
´´sweden owning russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)

Who was the leader exactly? :p
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: masterborn12 on May 05, 2013, 08:33:47 pm
Charles_XII_of_Sweden  or in swedish carl gustav den tolfte
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: von_Bismarck on May 05, 2013, 08:46:26 pm
This is about your favorite leader, not your favorite battle.

Giuseppe Garibaldi, the unifier of Italy.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F3%2F3a%2FGiuseppe_Garibaldi_%25281866%2529.jpg&hash=34f3606d51f4e5e976048e4b1d8a4b3c)

A real adventurer with no doubt of that.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Allasaphore on May 05, 2013, 11:32:38 pm
Garibaldi is great, but I have to settle for Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire. A great man from Old Europe.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hawke on May 06, 2013, 12:49:05 am
Karl XII.
Pretty beast Swedish king who pretty much beat 3 Great Powers on his own.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Allasaphore on May 06, 2013, 01:27:55 am
Karl XII.
Pretty beast Swedish king who pretty much beat 3 Great Powers on his own.

He was pretty legit. If it weren't for the fact he was defeated during the Great Northern War by a power nobody was expecting (Russia), I'd put him up near the upper echelons of the greats (he's already a great, I think, just not the best of the best).
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on May 06, 2013, 08:43:34 am
Karl XII.
Pretty beast Swedish king who pretty much beat 3 Great Powers on his own.

Sadly, like most of our more prominent kings, he manages to stupidly get himself killed in battle.

Gustav Adolf, looking at you here.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: masterborn12 on May 06, 2013, 05:07:52 pm
ur really dumb it was really misty and he was unlucky
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dekkers on May 06, 2013, 05:11:47 pm
ur really dumb it was really misty and he was unlucky

Trust me. Nub Talli aint dumb, and why so upset?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Mr T on May 06, 2013, 05:23:09 pm
ur really dumb it was really misty and he was unlucky

Thrust me.

  ???
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dekkers on May 06, 2013, 05:23:52 pm
ur really dumb it was really misty and he was unlucky

Thrust me.

  ???

Trust* Edited it... always make that mistake -.-''            uhm.. sorry  :-*
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: masterborn12 on May 06, 2013, 05:41:23 pm
im sorry for sayin ur dumb. let me correct that the battlefield was very misty the king was with his elite unit until they got ambushed and thats how he got killed he was kiinda unlucky abit stupid but if its misty u get lost and thats what he did he got lost and got killed and because of that sweden lost not the battle the war.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Warder on May 07, 2013, 12:47:36 pm
Karl XII.
Pretty beast Swedish king who pretty much beat 3 Great Powers on his own.

Sadly, like most of our more prominent kings, he manages to stupidly get himself killed in battle.

Gustav Adolf, looking at you here.
They were just Vikings ^.^


Anyway a lot of great gen, had only luck, that they didnt die on the battlefield. For me the best one is gen Lee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQDAL819oPg
Gettysburg, his biggest fault, he didnt blame tactic or soldiers only himself. Also, Union lost more men in battle against smaller army:P
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Pompey on May 08, 2013, 02:40:26 pm

Anyway a lot of great gen, had only luck, that they didnt die on the battlefield. For me the best one is gen Lee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQDAL819oPg
Gettysburg, his biggest fault, he didnt blame tactic or soldiers only himself. Also, Union lost more men in battle against smaller army:P

Not necessarily, Gettysburg wasn't his biggest fault, Pickets charge which happen on the 3rd day of the fighting is what drove them back. Pickets charge mixed with Little Round Top broke the camels back. If they took Little Round Top and perhaps had a small force go ahead and remove the fences (or at least bombard it a bit with artillery fire) the entire Civil War would have been different. If he took Gettysburg, he would have been able to just walk on up to Washington and besiege the town.







Anywho, my favorite is Joshua Chamberlain for his acts at Little Round Top.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkOn-VHtgII
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK-u6ixTiJ0
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZraOIEx63U
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf_TdKQt5aM
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Morgoth on May 08, 2013, 03:02:27 pm
Great Alexander ofcurse. No need for further explanation.  ;D
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Major Sharpe on June 07, 2013, 06:02:54 pm
I would have to say:
Alexander the Great
Wellington
and Count Helmuth Von Moltke
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: KillerMongoose on June 08, 2013, 03:25:20 am
Julius Caesar has to be mentioned as one of the greatest. The man was a cunning and ruthless leader and a great military tactician. Although I do have to say that many of Rome's victories come from the legionnaires, there was a quote in the book I have called "The Roman Army" by Peter Connolly which said "The Romans were not great tacticians but relied mainly on the discipline and superior skill of the legionaries. Even bad generals could win battles." However, Julius Caesar had a very good habit of putting his men in positions of minimal risk to his men.

Another person who belongs on this list is Confederate General Robert E. Lee. This man was a brilliant general, a master tactician, and an incredible and inspiring leader. He will go down in history as an incredible man capable of great victories. And the men that he chose were incredible men in their own right. Thomas Jackson and J.E.B. Stuart were great, daring leaders who, under Lee, were easily some of the best generals. If the Confederacy was able to match the Union's industry and manpower, these three men would have steamrolled the Union army and won the war.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dekkers on June 08, 2013, 12:37:44 pm
Julius Caesar has to be mentioned as one of the greatest. The man was a cunning and ruthless leader and a great military tactician. Although I do have to say that many of Rome's victories come from the legionnaires, there was a quote in the book I have called "The Roman Army" by Peter Connolly which said "The Romans were not great tacticians but relied mainly on the discipline and superior skill of the legionaries. Even bad generals could win battles." However, Julius Caesar had a very good habit of putting his men in positions of minimal risk to his men.

Another person who belongs on this list is Confederate General Robert E. Lee. This man was a brilliant general, a master tactician, and an incredible and inspiring leader. He will go down in history as an incredible man capable of great victories. And the men that he chose were incredible men in their own right. Thomas Jackson and J.E.B. Stuart were great, daring leaders who, under Lee, were easily some of the best generals. If the Confederacy was able to match the Union's industry and manpower, these three men would have steamrolled the Union army and won the war.

I've got to say I like it how your favorites aren't Alexander etc. like everyone else .___.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Van_Hulstein on June 08, 2013, 12:49:33 pm
My favourite leader is Andries Pretorius (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andries_Pretorius)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: KillerMongoose on June 08, 2013, 07:11:39 pm
The only thing about thr Macedonians that I think was innovative was their use of cavalry and hypaspists. It provided the flexibility that the phalanx needed. Other than that, I don't care much about them. Alexander was a good leader and skilled tactician but its easy to destroy hordes of lightly armored eastern barbarians when your armor is a giant, spiked tank.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Rival Ze GOD on June 13, 2013, 08:02:08 pm
Obviously Captain Pepper, with his mighty yellow submarine.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Heldane on June 14, 2013, 11:24:37 pm
Definitely Lawrence Chamberlain   8)

His speech was so good ^^
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Josef Lenin on June 20, 2013, 01:29:42 am
That baker down the street. He makes good bread.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Killington on June 20, 2013, 02:17:44 am
Sir Isaac Brock
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Rival Ze GOD on June 22, 2013, 01:58:38 am
I hate betraying my nation, but for Ancient times Thutmose III, Classical times, Antiochus III "The Great", Medieval ages, Henry V Of England, Musket age, Marshal Davout, Modern age, Erwin Romnel.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: George385 on June 23, 2013, 01:01:34 am
Alfred the great, first man to unite anglo-saxon england as one.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on June 23, 2013, 07:07:22 pm
After this weekend, I just have post;

William, Prince of Orange, the future King William II. His decisions and more importantly his actions really helped decide the Waterloo campaign. Certainly not a military mastermind au pair with Napoleon or Suvarov, but a fantastic and beloved leader. And of course he was brave to the point of reckneckless - which, eventually, got him wounded.

And no, he wasn't the stupid spoiled richy - He had done the Prussian militiary academy, Oxford (or Eton, I always get confused) and served in the British army in Spain and southern France. Maybe not quite enough experience for a Corps commandship, but still.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: KillerMongoose on June 23, 2013, 08:12:45 pm
Very good one Duuring, and while he wasn't a military mastermind like you said, he was certainly skilled and performed very admirably considering he was only 23. I love how quickly he reacted to certain battlefield situation.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on June 23, 2013, 08:17:05 pm
He reacted to most situation by charging them.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on June 24, 2013, 10:28:59 pm
Riddlez's fav; Probably Erwin Rommel.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: MazZ on June 24, 2013, 11:05:17 pm
Gaius Julius Caesar
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Noodlenrice on June 30, 2013, 03:44:44 am
During the Nashville Campaign Cleburne succeeded to the command of Hardee's Corps.His sobriquet(nickname) was "Stonewall Jackson of the West". It would have been more accurate to call Jackson "Pat Cleburne of the East". Fighting on the western front Cleburne generally got less glory than generals in the east. Fighting under Braxton Bragg, Joseph E. Johnston, and John Bell Hood, arguably the most incapable succession of commanding officers, Cleburne repeatedly demonstrated his abilities. Fighting for the losing side he got less attention and coverage than the Union generals.One other event affected how he was viewed during and after the war. Stationed at Tunnel Hill, Ga. after the defeat at Chattanooga, Cleburne, leading a group of commissioned officers, proposed drafting Negroes into the Confederate Army in return for their emancipation. He reasoned that in one stroke they could increase the size of the army and eliminate a reason for the Federals to fight. While it is doubtful that the resolve of President Lincoln would have been altered (he was fighting to preserve the Union, not to end slavery), the proposal caused quite a backlash in the south and possibly affected the length of the war. When Jefferson Davis decided to remove Johnston from command during the Battle of Atlanta, he selected John Bell Hood over Pat Cleburne in part because of this proposal.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Rival Ze GOD on July 01, 2013, 05:44:52 pm
What about Geronimo of the Apache tribe, 200 warriors held off and evaded the Union army for about 10 years.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Docm30 on July 02, 2013, 02:41:35 am
And in doing so doomed his people. There's a reason Geronimo is pretty much universally hated by Apaches.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: DaMonkey on July 05, 2013, 09:27:48 am
     I would have to say that my undoubtedly favorite leader would have to be Frederick the Great. Not only was he an amazing military leader, resisting many world powers at the time of his kingship, but he was a really good king. He modernized many parts of Prussia, sympathized with the poor strata, and even wrote down the somewhat radical belief that "a king is a servant to his people, not his people a servant to their king."
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Audiate on July 05, 2013, 09:52:09 am
Aye, it seems Russia is the "Achilles Heel" of European military leaders. First, Napoleon's grand army, then Hitler's nazi force.

Go even further to Karl Gustav King Charles XII of Sweden and his attmepted campaign into Russia. He had 12000 musketeers, 20000 other infantry, 4000 cavalry, and 400 cannons. He lost 60% of his force in Russia, and another 30% to the Polish. But, he... he was a very stupid man.

 Everyone was always stupid against Russia. Everyone forgot where Russia begins. The more leaders would push, the further Russia would fall back, and so easily would Russia be able to surround them and shred them to dust.

 Empires always end at Asia Minor, though. Roman Empire, Persian Empire, Soviet Union, and so on. It's hard to settle there, I guess. Back to the topic at hand...

 I have to commend Charles XII, though. He alone managed to run around through Russia and Turkey, hiding in the Ottoman Empire and eventually provoking them into attacking Russia, before running to Vienna to make the long trip back to Sweden, which he arrived at right before they would elect a new ruler, after finding out he was in Turkey. They thought he would still be in Turkey by the time he appeared again in Sweden. What really gets me is that he immediately slept. He went to bed, and slept for a long while. No speeches, no apologies, no celebrations. The people were glad he was home, and so he slept.

 That doesn't make him one of my favorite commanders, though. I find that a very hilarious story, but that's about it. I do like generals from that time period... Prince Eugene of Savoy, Ivan the Terrible... but my favorite general of all time may just be Hannibal Barca. I don't like Carthage more than most nations during the ancient times, but he was a leader of a conquest unlike any other military conquest lead by anyone. Many generals get cocky when leading several thousands of soldiers around for weeks, but Hannibal and his brothers would cross men, horses, and bloody elephants across the Rhone river, while expecting combat from the Volcae on the other side, and then crossing the Alps by chiseling away at the rocks in order to quite practically move the mountains in order to walk massive beasts across it. The casualties would eventually reach tens of thousands, but the feat was hands-down damned impressive. Hamilcar would be proud to call him his son, if he could only have seen him do that.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Joseph Graham on July 06, 2013, 03:14:07 pm
Hannibal Barca.

I tend to swing back and forth between Hannibal and Scipio Africanus, however they were both impressive generals and certainly defined that period of history. As a personal interest I'd love to have been witness to the meeting they had prior to the Battle of Zama; I imagine some of those in attendance would have had the feeling that they'd be going down in history as a result.

Personally, I adore Bernard Montgomery. It may be because he's British and the stories surrounding him during the Western Desert Campaign are inspiring, but he was an incredibly intelligent man. Whilst his later life was marred by his lack of political savy he certainly defined himself to be an iconic military leader, at least in contemporary times.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Viriathus on August 24, 2013, 12:43:24 am
Viriathus... The name says it all, he was a Lusitani tribe warlord and defeated the romans over and over again untill he got assassinated.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: DanyEle on August 24, 2013, 12:51:54 am
Ciceron: fought as ensign carrier against Julius Caesar and actually commanded a few soldiers in Pompeus' acies. Fled from the battle 20 minutes after the battle began and the whole of Pompeus' army was routed as soon as Caesar broke through the lines. Was later captured and then forgiven by Julius. That was the only battle of his whole life, but he's definitely the most amusing leader of all time in my opinion.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Captain_Ageati on August 30, 2013, 02:39:14 am
Hmmm... I have a few It's hard narrowing it down.


Pyrrus of Epirus for a start. Ruddy nora he fought everywhere he went and did a lot of damage. If he never went to Sicily maybe it would have been a great Greek empire instead of Roman, eh?

Next would have to be.... Stonewall Jackson. Lee himself admitted that Gettysburg would have gone differently had Jackson been alive. Hell it's an argument all over the tinterwebs that the Confederates could have survived if Jackson lived.


Finally... I'd have to go with Josip Broz Tito. He had to fight EVERYONE in Yugoslavia during WW2. The Germans, the Cetniks, the Bulgars, the Ustase and, for the most past, he battered them all and managed to unify a bunch of slavic states ,who hated each other might I add, into a powerful republic that defied the Russians and had the trust of both sides of the Cold War. Simply incredible.

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Curtis on August 30, 2013, 09:25:24 am
I hope you dont judge me too quickly for this but...

Hitler. Say what you want about evil and what have you, but what he achieved and HOW he achieved it is just a huge fascination to me

Other then that. Horatio nelson, just out of patriotism and pride. he's a good English figure of pride. despite what he may have done or what he may have actually been like

EDIT: How could i forget, maybe even my favourite now that i think about it, but CROMWELL!. may have been a right boring cunt, but what a guy eh. watch the film Cromwell from 1970 and tell me that aint the most badass shit you've ever seen. once again here, despite what he may have done or how he may have been like, he's still awesome cromwell to me
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on August 30, 2013, 09:31:00 am
Hitler usually had people do stuff for him, then took all the credit.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Curtis on August 30, 2013, 09:39:16 am
Im pretty sure the definition of leader is someone who has people do stuff for them...
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on August 30, 2013, 09:44:16 am
That's an intresting definition.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Humlenerd on August 30, 2013, 10:22:45 am
Napoleon Bonaparte :D

Because of his superior military tactics, and just behaviour.

Edit: The young Napoleon(before 1812).
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Joker11 on September 09, 2013, 02:56:45 pm
Either Hannibal or Adolf Hitler
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on September 09, 2013, 03:20:16 pm
Hitler didn't for naught get higher that Corporal =P

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Archduke Sven on September 09, 2013, 04:49:40 pm
Hitler didn't for naught get higher that Corporal =P

I doubt he is talking about his military leadership, he's most likely talking about his political leadership. Hitler didn't become the leader of a nation for no reason after all.



I enjoy reading about Hasso von Manteuffel at the moment, another great German divisional commander in WW2. There are so many others that it'd just take ages to mention them all. Other favorites are Napoleon I, Gustav II Adolf and good old Friedrich II
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Joker11 on September 10, 2013, 12:38:32 am
Hitler didn't for naught get higher that Corporal =P

I doubt he is talking about his military leadership, he's most likely talking about his political leadership. Hitler didn't become the leader of a nation for no reason after all.



I enjoy reading about Hasso von Manteuffel at the moment, another great German divisional commander in WW2. There are so many others that it'd just take ages to mention them all. Other favorites are Napoleon I, Gustav II Adolf and good old Friedrich II
Thank you Sven!!
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Wismar on September 29, 2013, 09:35:05 pm
Per albin Hansson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_Albin_Hansson
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on September 30, 2013, 07:14:23 pm
... Adolf Hitler

If the leader of my country, democraticly elected or not, started the bloodiest conflict in the history of mankind, leading to millions of dead countrymen, the virtual destruction of every major city in my country, the loss of sovereignty for several years and my country beeing split into four (later two) parts for 50 years, I'd sure as hell wouldn't consider him my favorite. I am very interested in your reasoning here.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Commissar Jdf on October 01, 2013, 12:16:30 am
... Adolf Hitler

If the leader of my country, democraticly elected or not, started the bloodiest conflict in the history of mankind, leading to millions of dead countrymen, the virtual destruction of every major city in my country, the loss of sovereignty for several years and my country beeing split into four (later two) parts for 50 years, I'd sure as hell wouldn't consider him my favorite. I am very interested in your reasoning here.

He's got the moves like Jagger. And better than James Brown. Ol' Adolf was known for his choreography.

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgifs.gifbin.com%2Fopopg647opop9.gif&hash=acd97e05ac79ac7334725a0208e3b64a)
[close]
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Johan on October 02, 2013, 05:38:57 pm
People that said Adolf Hitler disgusts me...
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Wismar on October 02, 2013, 06:17:59 pm
People that said Adolf Hitler disgusts me...
You don't need to worry. I they don't really mean it. If they were to see a gulag or consentration camp IRL I think they would change their minds.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Archduke Sven on October 02, 2013, 06:42:22 pm
People that said Adolf Hitler disgusts me...

Saving Europe from Bolshevism wasn't a bad plan, because face it, had Germany stayed at Weimar Republic levels of armament, the Bolshevik hordes would have wiped out European civilization. That was their plan all along, those damn communists.

And also, if you're going to blame Hitler for starting WW2, i hope you are aware that the Soviets had we're going to launch an attack on Europe, so there was going to be a showdown between Europe and the Soviets eventually anyways.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on October 02, 2013, 07:34:22 pm
Damn Sven, you just went full retard.
Fascism was never a viable system and its buried, keep it buried.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Archduke Sven on October 02, 2013, 07:43:31 pm
Damn Sven, you just went full retard.
Fascism was never a viable system and its buried, keep it buried.

It's not retarded, its what would have happened. I'm not condoning Hitlers, nor do i wish to justify them, but just want people to see it from a different perspective than what textbooks say. A general European war having to do with the USSR would have happened, had Hitler not taken power in '33.

Also i would appreciate if you criticized more specific than saying i went "full retard" just because my views don't fit your agenda, and so that i could reply to you more effectively.

Nor did i ever say fascism was a viable system, but it is clearly the lesser of two evils when compared to communism, specifically Stalinism.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on October 02, 2013, 07:58:42 pm
I'm sorry but you gotta deal with my bluntness.
Stalinism is quite bad but gave a bad name to communism as a whole, the USSR and other cold war socialist states were the authoritarian side.

In my opinion they should've smashed fascism instantly when it rose because it ruined a lot of great workers movements in the world, especially Europe. (not to mention the other, more horrid manifestations of fascism)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 02, 2013, 08:13:12 pm
Or we could just praise Poland for kicking the USSR back into Russia in 1921.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on October 02, 2013, 08:21:18 pm
I'm with the Black guards in Ukraine or the Kronstadt sailors on this one.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Wismar on October 02, 2013, 09:14:08 pm
I'm sorry but you gotta deal with my bluntness.
Stalinism is quite bad but gave a bad name to communism as a whole, the USSR and other cold war socialist states were the authoritarian side.

In my opinion they should've smashed fascism instantly when it rose because it ruined a lot of great workers movements in the world, especially Europe. (not to mention the other, more horrid manifestations of fascism)
And then left communism be?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 02, 2013, 09:17:24 pm
By the time the National-socialist rose to power in Germany, communism had been replaced by Stalinism in the USSR. Technically it had become less extreme communist under Lenin, and many believe Trotksi would have followed the same way of governing, but then Stalin came and he just fucked everything up for the sake of (unnecessary) industrializing.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on October 02, 2013, 09:38:56 pm
And then left communism be?

Depends on who you ask; but most would agree a  society like that would not include rulers, military, coercion, capitalism, or class hierarchy, some (me included) would also like to see property done away with. Cooperation, community independence, horizontal organization, universal rights, and sharing of resources are all things that would be strongly encouraged. Hope that helps!

A few modern examples of working anarchist societies i can think off, 1936 Barcelona which was not only a modern society, but an advanced industrial economy but got taken out prematurely by the usual suspects.
The Israeli Kibbutz are also a very good examples where they even send prisoners to live there because the crime rates are so low there.


Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 02, 2013, 10:08:09 pm
All these examples are of small communities, of people who believed in the plan and chosed to be part of it. The entire plan will crumble as soon as you get one person that has some other ideas.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on October 03, 2013, 08:40:03 am
Those were/are consisting of thousands and millions of people.
Check out Mutual Aid if you really wonder how different the incentive is.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Allasaphore on October 04, 2013, 06:11:53 am
This thread was made to discuss who our favorite leaders were. The problem with communal leadership is that it has the potential to break down relatively quickly and can weaken the state in the process. Philosophers such as Plato, Aristotle, Epicurus, and Seneca tend to agree that not all people are perfect or capable of autonomy. Others like Hobbes portray men as vicious beasts whose passions must be contained by a mutual contract, the state.

Ours isn't the world of Kant, where everyone acts of (or should act of) duty alone. This world is the realm of deceit and violence, as a quick glimpse of history reveals.

This means that the collective cannot be trusted to govern itself adequately and justly. There must be potent leaders lest a state fail. The French Commune of 1871 and the Communes of the Spanish Civil War testify to this fact.

The thing with anarchists (that I know, at least) is the inability some possess to justify the lack of government in the face of the dangers presented by a lack of strong government.


Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Venom on October 04, 2013, 07:49:22 am
this is gonna sound bad because off what it stands for i guess, but the german ww2 commanders such as Rommel and Von Manstein. as they managed to fight a war on 3 fronts for 3 year and at one point were the masters of europe. in my opinion hitler fucked it up, im not saying i wanted the germans to win but i do think that they achieved a lot through tactual skill ect
also i like napoleon and the duke of wellington
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 04, 2013, 08:20:16 am
By the time the National-socialist rose to power in Germany, communism had been replaced by Stalinism in the USSR. Technically it had become less extreme communist under Lenin, and many believe Trotksi would have followed the same way of governing, but then Stalin came and he just fucked everything up for the sake of (unnecessary) industrializing.


(unnecessary) without the industrializing of Russia germany would have won the 2nd world war. Even do Stalin was a terrible person and his actions arent justified with this its just a sad thing in history that without his 5 years plan we would all be speaking german by now.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Diplex on October 04, 2013, 03:14:59 pm
By the time the National-socialist rose to power in Germany, communism had been replaced by Stalinism in the USSR. Technically it had become less extreme communist under Lenin, and many believe Trotksi would have followed the same way of governing, but then Stalin came and he just fucked everything up for the sake of (unnecessary) industrializing.

Kinda saved Russia in the end, lol.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 04, 2013, 03:30:52 pm
By the time the National-socialist rose to power in Germany, communism had been replaced by Stalinism in the USSR. Technically it had become less extreme communist under Lenin, and many believe Trotksi would have followed the same way of governing, but then Stalin came and he just fucked everything up for the sake of (unnecessary) industrializing.

Kinda saved Russia in the end, lol.


I agree on that(i mean thats what i wrote).
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 04, 2013, 03:58:09 pm
Russians like to deny it, but the the greatest part of Russian gear came from, in fact, the USA.

Stalin industrialized for the sake of industrialization, not to win a war he never expected to happen. In fact, the USSR did so bad in the war BECAUSE of Stalin's purges and stupidity.
Trotski was not just more realistic, he was also a better army leader.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: 1stNOG_IDF on October 04, 2013, 04:23:12 pm
Napoleon Bonaparte and Moshe Dayan, for helping orchestrate the capture of East Jerusalem.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Warder on October 04, 2013, 04:51:46 pm
Hannibal, Napoleon, gen Lee, von Manstein.
Difference between Hitler and Napoleon is big in my opinion. Napoleon lost cuz of his generals, Hitler won few campaigns only cuz of his generals :P
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Johan on October 04, 2013, 05:03:32 pm
Erwin Rommel and his 7th Panzer Division.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Desert Thunda on October 04, 2013, 10:29:52 pm
Gregory Zhukov.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Wismar on October 05, 2013, 12:19:14 pm
By the time the National-socialist rose to power in Germany, communism had been replaced by Stalinism in the USSR. Technically it had become less extreme communist under Lenin, and many believe Trotksi would have followed the same way of governing, but then Stalin came and he just fucked everything up for the sake of (unnecessary) industrializing.


(unnecessary) without the industrializing of Russia germany would have won the 2nd world war. Even do Stalin was a terrible person and his actions arent justified with this its just a sad thing in history that without his 5 years plan we would all be speaking german by now.
Well, Hitler didn't want to take over the world. He wanted to unite the Germanic peoples.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: 1stNOG_IDF on October 05, 2013, 12:32:04 pm
By the time the National-socialist rose to power in Germany, communism had been replaced by Stalinism in the USSR. Technically it had become less extreme communist under Lenin, and many believe Trotksi would have followed the same way of governing, but then Stalin came and he just fucked everything up for the sake of (unnecessary) industrializing.


(unnecessary) without the industrializing of Russia germany would have won the 2nd world war. Even do Stalin was a terrible person and his actions arent justified with this its just a sad thing in history that without his 5 years plan we would all be speaking german by now.
Well, Hitler didn't want to take over the world. He wanted to unite the Germanic peoples.

Last time I checked Russia wasn't Germanic.


Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 05, 2013, 12:46:16 pm
He also allied with the Japanese, and no problem with them invading the Dutch Indies, where they imprisoned and killed thousands of Dutch people, all the while Dutch were considered a Germanic brethren people.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Jelly on October 05, 2013, 05:06:46 pm
He also allied with the Japanese, and no problem with them invading the Dutch Indies, where they imprisoned and killed thousands of Dutch people, all the while Dutch were considered a Germanic brethren people.
Hitler logic right there.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on October 05, 2013, 09:35:45 pm
He also allied with the Japanese, and no problem with them invading the Dutch Indies, where they imprisoned and killed thousands of Dutch people, all the while Dutch were considered a Germanic brethren people.
Hitler logic right there.

Yeah, stupid Nationalist leader, who dont like immigration, allying with another nationalist leader, who also dont like immigration. Their ideas are soo incompatible
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 06, 2013, 12:15:24 am
I'm confused about who is against me and who is supporting...
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on October 06, 2013, 08:51:54 am
I'm confused about who is against me and who is supporting...

You are mixing Realpoltik and idelogical politics, and finding it weird that Hitler actually did not act solely on the latter.

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 06, 2013, 10:52:51 am
I'm not finding it weird, it just shows Hitler was not too concerned about their fate. He never did anything to try and free them.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 06, 2013, 11:10:57 am
Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck he is on of the best generals through history.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on October 06, 2013, 12:33:30 pm
I'm not finding it weird, it just shows Hitler was not too concerned about their fate. He never did anything to try and free them.
Try to free whom?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Kammin on October 06, 2013, 12:45:42 pm
Alexander the great - Just because he had the biggest ego on Earth !
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 06, 2013, 12:59:04 pm
I'm not finding it weird, it just shows Hitler was not too concerned about their fate. He never did anything to try and free them.
Try to free whom?

The Dutchies imprisoned by his Allies the Japanese. The Dutch, according to the Nazi's, were Germanic and a brethren people. Ergo, Hitler cared more about power and allies then the whole 'ethnic Germans unite'-thing. That might have been his goal years before, but it's rather clear Hitler wanted more and more.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on October 06, 2013, 01:01:15 pm
I'm not finding it weird, it just shows Hitler was not too concerned about their fate. He never did anything to try and free them.
Try to free whom?

The Dutchies imprisoned by his Allies the Japanese. Who, according to the Nazi's, were Germanic and a brethren people.

They were also his enemies, fighting on the allied side. As Denmark and Norway also showed, simply being Germanic isnt enough to safeguard agaisnt Hitler's Warmachine.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 06, 2013, 01:02:46 pm
The Netherlands had declared Neutrality. Come to think of it, so were Denmark and Norway. My entire point is that Hitler did not gave a single shit about the 'Germanic' people by 1940.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Bluehawk on October 06, 2013, 01:10:31 pm
The Netherlands had declared Neutrality.

In order words, refusing to aid the Axis against the democrats and Bolshevists. With Hitler's polarized "with us or against us" mentality, you're lucky he didn't burn the whole country down to make an example out of you for the other "racially unconscious." This is a man that would later try to turn Germany itself into a wasteland to punish the post-45 occupation we're talking about here.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 06, 2013, 01:22:44 pm
So we settled on the point Hitler was just a powerhungry madman that hated Commies and didn't really care about Germanic people, be they German, Dutch or Danish? Good.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Bluehawk on October 06, 2013, 01:30:19 pm
I'd rather say being loved by Hitler was as dangerous as being hated.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on October 06, 2013, 02:34:22 pm
So we settled on the point Hitler was just a powerhungry madman that hated Commies and didn't really care about Germanic people, be they German, Dutch or Danish? Good.

Not at all. Whilst Norwegians, Danes, Dutchies and other Germanic people might have been favoured after the war, for as long as they were A)Not directly helping the Germans or B)Had some tactical advantage that the germans needed, thus rendering the need for an invasion.

For example, Hitler invaded Norway because of their ports, which are perfectly located for raiding the north sea (And, thus, Allied-Soviet Convoys). He invaded Denmark because the Airfields in Northern Jylland would become useful (mainly for invading Norway).

Likewise, The Netherlands (And Belgium & Luxembourg) was nothing but a "side-step" for the invasion of France. They provided alterante routes to the Maginot Line.

The nazis did indeed believe the germanic peoples to be superior, but this didnt mean that they had to be invaded, and puppet nationalist regimes erected in the place of previous democratic government.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 06, 2013, 02:45:44 pm
You did not need the Netherlands to invade France, as the 1st World War showed.

On a site note, the Netherlands were governed by the Austrian nazi Seyss-Inquart as Reichscommissar. The Dutch Nationalist-socialist party and their leader were as ignored by the Germans as they were hated by the Dutch. There was no puppet government, only direct Nazi rule.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: 1stNOG_IDF on October 06, 2013, 03:47:10 pm
Ashkenazi's are defined as, for the most part, Germanic Jews.

He didn't seem so eager to unite them with him, eh?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on October 06, 2013, 04:00:20 pm
You did not need the Netherlands to invade France, as the 1st World War showed.

On a site note, the Netherlands were governed by the Austrian nazi Seyss-Inquart as Reichscommissar. The Dutch Nationalist-socialist party and their leader were as ignored by the Germans as they were hated by the Dutch. There was no puppet government, only direct Nazi rule.

Firstly, you can not compare WW1 and WW2. Mainly, no Maginot Line. Germany could probably have invaded succesfully either way, but going trough the netherlands and Belgium was faster, took the french by surprise and caused France to fall in 6 weeks.

Regarding the direct rule. France was also ruled directly, but there was plans to, (if) the war was won, create a nationalist puppet state. It is probable that a similiar solution would have been implemented in The netherlands. Either that, or it would have been incorporated in the Grossdeutschland, along with other Germanic nations.

In Norway, Quisling, a norwegian facist, got put into power. In Denmark, the king remained, as he was 'aryan'(Until he later fled the country and a military government put in place).
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 06, 2013, 04:20:25 pm
The only reason to invade the Netherlands if your ultimate goal is France, is because of the fear of an stab-in-the-back attack. But as the Netherlands had declared neutrality, and its army was in a bad shape, that was really no valid reason. You only need to cross trough Belgium, as they showed in the first World War.

France was for a good part under Vichy-France rule. That's not the same as a Reichskommisar.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on October 06, 2013, 04:33:41 pm
The only reason to invade the Netherlands if your ultimate goal is France, is because of the fear of an stab-in-the-back attack. But as the Netherlands had declared neutrality, and its army was in a bad shape, that was really no valid reason. You only need to cross trough Belgium, as they showed in the first World War.

France was for a good part under Vichy-France rule. That's not the same as a Reichskommisar.

France was the ultimate goal. The invasion of the Netherlands served two purposes. Firstly, to make an invasion of France easier (As I previously stated) and second to make sure there is no place in Europe were Allied soldiers can land uncontested. I dont know exactly what German strategists thought, But It is safe to say that they did not consider The netherlands as a threat, and therefore the abovementioned reasons were used to justify an invasion.

In World war 1, the Belgians proved to be a difficult obstacle for the germans. The German-Belgian border is not large. By invading through the netherlands, Germany could make full use of it's superiority in manpower.

And Yes, Petaín and his regime was granted Southern France and it's colonies, whilst the Germans occupied North & Western france. The reasons here were probably the same as in Belgium. Hitler wanted to safeguard the Northern European coastline agaisnt allied invasions, and the safest way to do that was to man it with German soldiers, and control the surrounding area directly.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on October 06, 2013, 05:11:03 pm
You did not need the Netherlands to invade France, as the 1st World War showed.

You do not need the Netherlands for anything except building dykes and dams.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Sturk on October 12, 2013, 12:22:48 pm
Robert E. Lee
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Wismar on October 12, 2013, 02:39:19 pm
By the time the National-socialist rose to power in Germany, communism had been replaced by Stalinism in the USSR. Technically it had become less extreme communist under Lenin, and many believe Trotksi would have followed the same way of governing, but then Stalin came and he just fucked everything up for the sake of (unnecessary) industrializing.


(unnecessary) without the industrializing of Russia germany would have won the 2nd world war. Even do Stalin was a terrible person and his actions arent justified with this its just a sad thing in history that without his 5 years plan we would all be speaking german by now.
Well, Hitler didn't want to take over the world. He wanted to unite the Germanic peoples.

Last time I checked Russia wasn't Germanic.
Not sure if would have annexed Russia tho.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Archduke Sven on October 12, 2013, 02:55:59 pm
The only reason to invade the Netherlands if your ultimate goal is France, is because of the fear of an stab-in-the-back attack. But as the Netherlands had declared neutrality, and its army was in a bad shape, that was really no valid reason. You only need to cross trough Belgium, as they showed in the first World War.

France was for a good part under Vichy-France rule. That's not the same as a Reichskommisar.

Are you kidding me?

If the Germans didn't capture the Netherlands, the British would have used it to land on Europe in the future, the Brits didn't give a crap about Neutrality either, as they were about to launch an attack on neutral Norway, but were preempted by the Germans by just 6 hours.

Not to mention the Netherlands had valuable naval and airbases that could be used against Britain. Also, what do you know about Hitler not caring about the Germanic peoples? He was uniting them under a German banner, if that means attacking democratic puppet governments then so be it. He was securing land to be able to wage war against Europe's greatest enemy; the Bolsheviks.

Hitler couldn't let small things like not attacking Netherlands, Norway and Denmark get in the way of his military campaigns. Everyone knows that. Even the allies didn't mind betraying Czechoslovakia and Poland, nor did they care about Eastern Europe becoming Soviet satellite states and suffering immensively under 50 years of Communist rule. They had to step back from their ideology to figure out that working with the Soviets was the best way to win the war.

Honestly if you can't figure out that Hitler attacking Belgium and the Netherlands was the most logical course of action maybe you should think through it some more.

Spoiler
By the time the National-socialist rose to power in Germany, communism had been replaced by Stalinism in the USSR. Technically it had become less extreme communist under Lenin, and many believe Trotksi would have followed the same way of governing, but then Stalin came and he just fucked everything up for the sake of (unnecessary) industrializing.


(unnecessary) without the industrializing of Russia germany would have won the 2nd world war. Even do Stalin was a terrible person and his actions arent justified with this its just a sad thing in history that without his 5 years plan we would all be speaking german by now.
Well, Hitler didn't want to take over the world. He wanted to unite the Germanic peoples.

Last time I checked Russia wasn't Germanic.
Not sure if would have annexed Russia tho.
[close]

No, it was planned to set up several puppet states, so not an outright annexation; if you want to read more about them you can search Reichskommisariat Ostland, Reichskomissariat Ukraine, Reichkomissariat Moskowien and Reichkomissariat Kaukasien.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: MaciekPaciuk on October 12, 2013, 03:24:23 pm
Adolf Hitler, Stalin and MacEwan..
Joke ofc!
MY fav leader is a Welligton. Shame that he wasn't in colonies during rebellion.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 12, 2013, 11:33:46 pm
What do you mean by suffering under Communist rule? only the rich people did there was no crimes in the communist states everyone had a job compared to the capitalist with the high amount of unemployed people, homeless etc. And dont drag the KGB or the GRU into this the USA was and are still using the CIA the exact same way as the sovjet used to the KGB and GRU. And it was the Sovjet union who won the war D-Day was completly uncessary the decisive moment of the war was at Stalingrad, Leningrad and Kursk.


Grammar nazis please leave me alone im swedish, english isnt my native langue.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: McEwan on October 12, 2013, 11:42:58 pm
Please keep discussion focused on leaders themselves, and not every other topic that surrounds them.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on October 13, 2013, 12:37:36 am
What do you mean by suffering under Communist rule? only the rich people did there was no crimes in the communist states everyone had a job compared to the capitalist with the high amount of unemployed people, homeless etc. And dont drag the KGB or the GRU into this the USA was and are still using the CIA the exact same way as the sovjet used to the KGB and GRU. And it was the Sovjet union who won the war D-Day was completly uncessary the decisive moment of the war was at Stalingrad, Leningrad and Kursk.


Grammar nazis please leave me alone im swedish, english isnt my native langue.

You are completely fucking deluded.

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Commissar Jdf on October 13, 2013, 12:41:07 am
What do you mean by suffering under Communist rule? only the rich people did there was no crimes in the communist states everyone had a job compared to the capitalist with the high amount of unemployed people, homeless etc. And dont drag the KGB or the GRU into this the USA was and are still using the CIA the exact same way as the sovjet used to the KGB and GRU. And it was the Sovjet union who won the war D-Day was completly uncessary the decisive moment of the war was at Stalingrad, Leningrad and Kursk.


Grammar nazis please leave me alone im swedish, english isnt my native langue.

You are completely fucking deluded.

Coming from someone who has Mitt Romney as their avatar...
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 13, 2013, 12:42:41 am
Which is obviously meant sarcastic.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Ililsa on October 13, 2013, 09:46:41 pm
Which is obviously meant sarcastic.

Even if it's not, is it so hard for people to even try and pretend that they think other people's opinions are legitimate?

It's like if I said everyone who eats sweetcorn is wrong and spend many hours of my day trying to convince them of how wrong they are for eating those disgusting yellow teethy things.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Take on October 13, 2013, 10:02:59 pm
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F5%2F50%2FBismarckArbeitszimmer1886.jpg%2F220px-BismarckArbeitszimmer1886.jpg&hash=aa59b649f99706c209ab9a46c9ce91e9)

Otto von Bismarck

When Otto von Bismarck  became its Prime Minister in 1862, Prussia was a second-rate power overshadowed by Russia, Austria, France, and Britain. It was also unstable, its ancient monarchy and traditional Junker landowning class threatened by the rising forces of pan-German nationalism and liberal democratic revolution. When Bismarck retired in 1890, Prussia was the dominant part of a united German Empire which had become the greatest power in Europe. The old monarchy had not only survived, but the Prussian King had been transformed into a German Emperor. The Prussian aristocracy had become the military-bureaucratic masters of a mighty state.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 13, 2013, 11:17:14 pm
What do you mean by suffering under Communist rule? only the rich people did there was no crimes in the communist states everyone had a job compared to the capitalist with the high amount of unemployed people, homeless etc. And dont drag the KGB or the GRU into this the USA was and are still using the CIA the exact same way as the sovjet used to the KGB and GRU. And it was the Sovjet union who won the war D-Day was completly uncessary the decisive moment of the war was at Stalingrad, Leningrad and Kursk.


Grammar nazis please leave me alone im swedish, english isnt my native langue.

You are completely fucking deluded.


What dont like the truth? its based on facts?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Take on October 13, 2013, 11:29:49 pm
Real communism never existed to begin with. All those communist states were authoritarian regimes  u could argue that it was the dictatorship of the proletariat which is the intermediate system between capitalism and communism according to Marx.
On top of that no regime ever called itsself communist Mao talked bout New Democracy and Lenin bout War Communism. But real communism didnt exist and is probably unrealistic to ever establish as a form of goverment what most people think of as communism these days are only pictures the western propaganda(mainly of the US during the cold war) painted in the end those systems always had more of the characteristics of Dictatorships than of communism .
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hawke on October 13, 2013, 11:30:16 pm
So you're saying that the thousands of Allied soldiers who were killed defending and liberating France were unimportant?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 13, 2013, 11:32:46 pm
Alot more Sovjets died defending the homeland im just saying that they did the most of the work. the germans only hade a few divisions on the westfront the majority was at the eastfront+ france gave up after 3 weeks they didnt really do much.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 13, 2013, 11:34:13 pm
Real communism never existed to begin with. All those communist states were authoritarian regimes  u could argue that it was the dictatorship of the proletariat which is the intermediate system between capitalism and communism according to Marx.
On top of that no regime ever called itsself communist Mao talked bout New Democracy and Lenin bout War Communism. But real communism didnt exist and is probably unrealistic to ever establish as a form of goverment what most people think of as communism these days are only pictures the western propaganda(mainly of the US during the cold war) painted in the end those systems always had more of the characteristics of Dictatorships than of communism .


Agreed im not a a real communist the avatar is just to provoke certain nazis and people that belive in American propaganda.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hawke on October 13, 2013, 11:36:02 pm
I'm not seeing how the Eastern Front was more important than the Western.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 13, 2013, 11:36:56 pm
I'm not seeing how the Eastern Front was more important than the Western.

Are you really this stupid? just count the amount of dead germans on the east and the west.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hawke on October 13, 2013, 11:38:48 pm
I'm not sure you understand how things work.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 13, 2013, 11:40:13 pm
I'm not sure you understand how things work.

Please explain then.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 13, 2013, 11:45:42 pm
Having hard times finding an answer?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on October 13, 2013, 11:47:32 pm
What do you mean by suffering under Communist rule? only the rich people did there was no crimes in the communist states everyone had a job compared to the capitalist with the high amount of unemployed people, homeless etc. And dont drag the KGB or the GRU into this the USA was and are still using the CIA the exact same way as the sovjet used to the KGB and GRU. And it was the Sovjet union who won the war D-Day was completly uncessary the decisive moment of the war was at Stalingrad, Leningrad and Kursk.

You are completely fucking deluded.


What dont like the truth? its based on facts?

You're comparing criminal rates between a totalitarian police state, where dissidents are punished by a permanent visit to Siberia to a liberal democracy. Unemployment tends to be slightly lower in states that mandate collective farms and industries compared to free-market, business-oriented economies.The claim that there was no suffering under soviet rule shows how little of Soviet history you truly understand, or want to understand.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 13, 2013, 11:49:56 pm
Agreed im not a a real communist the avatar is just to provoke certain nazis and people that belive in American propaganda.

You do realize that war-photo was staged and photoshopped? They added more smoke for a dramatic effect, as well as removing one of the watches on the soldier (He had two, obviously looted), because the Soviets said stealing did not exist in their 'perfect' communist society, just like you just claimed.

What front was more important does not matter. Both the UK and the USSR could not have done without US support, especially tanks, weapons and other machinery.

Nobody wanted the D-Day landing more then the Soviets, especially Stalin himself, as they knew they would be unable to take on the whole German army - They needed an extra front.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hawke on October 13, 2013, 11:51:25 pm
Having hard times finding an answer?
No, but you're honestly not worth anybody's time.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 13, 2013, 11:53:33 pm
What do you mean by suffering under Communist rule? only the rich people did there was no crimes in the communist states everyone had a job compared to the capitalist with the high amount of unemployed people, homeless etc. And dont drag the KGB or the GRU into this the USA was and are still using the CIA the exact same way as the sovjet used to the KGB and GRU. And it was the Sovjet union who won the war D-Day was completly uncessary the decisive moment of the war was at Stalingrad, Leningrad and Kursk.

You are completely fucking deluded.


What dont like the truth? its based on facts?

You're comparing criminal rates between a totalitarian police state, where dissidents are punished by a permanent visit to Siberia to a liberal democracy. Unemployment tends to be slightly lower in states that mandate collective farms and industries compared to free-market, business-oriented economies.The claim that there was no suffering under soviet rule shows how little of Soviet history you truly understand, or want to understand.


There was suffering under the Sovjet rule but, i just want show how the USA is using the same "tactics" as the Sovjets or whats worst a permament visit to siberia or a killerdrone destroying your house and killing your family? having american bombers destroy your village having isreal troops kill your familiy using American weapons. or starving to death? booth countries are horrible im no real communist this avatar is used to provoke stupid nazis.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Mr T on October 13, 2013, 11:56:40 pm
Yeah cos the US has totally killed multiple millions of people, the FBI and CIA are totally the same as the Cheka, wake up mate.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 13, 2013, 11:57:03 pm
Agreed im not a a real communist the avatar is just to provoke certain nazis and people that belive in American propaganda.

You do realize that war-photo was staged and photoshopped? They added more smoke for a dramatic effect, as well as removing one of the watches on the soldier (He had two, obviously looted), because the Soviets said stealing did not exist in their 'perfect' communist society, just like you just claimed.

What front was more important does not matter. Both the UK and the USSR could not have done without US support, especially tanks, weapons and other machinery.

Nobody wanted the D-Day landing more then the Soviets, especially Stalin himself, as they knew they would be unable to take on the whole German army - They needed an extra front.

I do indeed know that and as i said its just to provoke nazis but and Communism wasnt perfect neither was the red army but they won the war and are you really in need of americans taking the honor for the war when you have pushed the germans back from leningrad to poland.

 the american supplies where extremly important i just wanna show you all how important the Sovjet was during the 2nd world war and remove the picture of the USA as Europes saviors.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 13, 2013, 11:58:55 pm
Yeah cos the US has totally killed multiple millions of people, the FBI and CIA are totally the same as the Cheka, wake up mate.

Ever heard of Iran, Afganistan, Iraq? or killerdrones? or what they did to southamerican socialist regims? time to wake up and get ride of the image of the perfect of the USA regim.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 14, 2013, 12:00:59 am
Quote
this avatar is used to provoke stupid nazis.

Many people died before they could make that pictur. Many people died, in fact, for the sole purpose of taking that picture, so using it for that purpose is pretty much as disrespective as can be.

Quote
i just wanna show you all how important the Sovjet was during the 2nd world war and remove the picture of the USA as Europes saviors.

'The sovjet' is used to describe on person living in the USSR. If you can't even get that right, how are we supposed to take you serious? You are just making an idiot of yourselves, and of the men you are trying to 'defend'. Just stop.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Mr T on October 14, 2013, 12:03:39 am
Quote
the american supplies where extremly important i just wanna show you all how important the Sovjet was during the 2nd world war and remove the picture of the USA as Europes saviors.


Yes, because we all need yo be enlightened by you about Soviet's and WW2.

Yeah cos the US has totally killed multiple millions of people, the FBI and CIA are totally the same as the Cheka, wake up mate.

Ever heard of Iran, Afganistan, Iraq? or killerdrones? or what they did to southamerican socialist regims? time to wake up and get ride of the image of the perfect of the USA regim.

Yes, but those arn't anything to the same scale as the actions of Stalin or Lenin before him.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on October 14, 2013, 12:04:30 am
What do you mean by suffering under Communist rule? only the rich people did there was no crimes in the communist states everyone had a job compared to the capitalist with the high amount of unemployed people, homeless etc. And dont drag the KGB or the GRU into this the USA was and are still using the CIA the exact same way as the sovjet used to the KGB and GRU. And it was the Sovjet union who won the war D-Day was completly uncessary the decisive moment of the war was at Stalingrad, Leningrad and Kursk.

You are completely fucking deluded.


What dont like the truth? its based on facts?

You're comparing criminal rates between a totalitarian police state, where dissidents are punished by a permanent visit to Siberia to a liberal democracy. Unemployment tends to be slightly lower in states that mandate collective farms and industries compared to free-market, business-oriented economies.The claim that there was no suffering under soviet rule shows how little of Soviet history you truly understand, or want to understand.


There was suffering under the Sovjet rule but, i just want show how the USA is using the same "tactics" as the Sovjets or whats worst a permament visit to siberia or a killerdrone destroying your house and killing your family? having american bombers destroy your village having isreal troops kill your familiy using American weapons. or starving to death? booth countries are horrible im no real communist this avatar is used to provoke stupid nazis.

Do you really think the systematic murder of millions, and repression of hundreds of millions over nearly a century can compare to the destruction of some remote villages?

I'm not wasting any more time on this. Hopefully you will understand how wrong you are with time.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 14, 2013, 12:05:54 am
Quote
this avatar is used to provoke stupid nazis.

Many people died before they could make that pictur. Many people died, in fact, for the sole purpose of taking that picture, so using it for that purpose is pretty much as disrespective as can be.

Quote
i just wanna show you all how important the Sovjet was during the 2nd world war and remove the picture of the USA as Europes saviors.

'The sovjet' is used to describe on person living in the USSR. If you can't even get that right, how are we supposed to take you serious? You are just making an idiot of yourselves, and of the men you are trying to 'defend'. Just stop.

Iam very sorry for bad english but im not from an english speaking country.  And im not defending Stalin trying to compare him George Bush to show that the USA also have done bad things. people died for that picture? so the USA have never done such a thing? sacrifed lifes for proganda? now i admit you guys are right i cant defend the Sovjet unions leaders but i wanna compare them to the USA and i hold on that that.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 14, 2013, 12:08:59 am
What do you mean by suffering under Communist rule? only the rich people did there was no crimes in the communist states everyone had a job compared to the capitalist with the high amount of unemployed people, homeless etc. And dont drag the KGB or the GRU into this the USA was and are still using the CIA the exact same way as the sovjet used to the KGB and GRU. And it was the Sovjet union who won the war D-Day was completly uncessary the decisive moment of the war was at Stalingrad, Leningrad and Kursk.

You are completely fucking deluded.


What dont like the truth? its based on facts?

You're comparing criminal rates between a totalitarian police state, where dissidents are punished by a permanent visit to Siberia to a liberal democracy. Unemployment tends to be slightly lower in states that mandate collective farms and industries compared to free-market, business-oriented economies.The claim that there was no suffering under soviet rule shows how little of Soviet history you truly understand, or want to understand.


There was suffering under the Sovjet rule but, i just want show how the USA is using the same "tactics" as the Sovjets or whats worst a permament visit to siberia or a killerdrone destroying your house and killing your family? having american bombers destroy your village having isreal troops kill your familiy using American weapons. or starving to death? booth countries are horrible im no real communist this avatar is used to provoke stupid nazis.

Do you really think the systematic murder of millions, and repression of hundreds of millions over nearly a century can compare to the destruction of some remote villages?

I'm not wasting any more time on this. Hopefully you will understand how wrong you are with time.

Some remote villages? was Hiroshima a village or nagasaki? didnt alot of people die in Vietnamn?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 14, 2013, 12:10:16 am
Now lets stop this before the admins bans/mutes us all.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 14, 2013, 12:10:40 am
The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved millions of lives. If you do not understand that, you are really not worth any of our time.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 14, 2013, 12:15:54 am
The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved millions of lives. If you do not understand that, you are really not worth any of our time.

Saved Americans do you mean that Americans are worth more then japanese lives? and if im not worth talking to why do you continue then? and the saved japanese lives just proves that the Americans would have caused civil causilties if they would have landed.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 14, 2013, 12:24:53 am
The Japanese population was taught that surrender was not an option and every one of them was willing to meaningless throw away their lives, if that was ordered or necessary to defend the fatherland. Look at Iwo Jima. Look at Okinawa. The head minister of the Admiralty literally said it would be a wonderful thing to happen - The entire nation and its people dead, "gone out as a flower "

A succesful invasion of Japan would not only cost the lives of millions of American, Soviet and other allied soldiers, but also of the nearly the entire Japanese population. Not to mention the war would be extended by years, while all the nations were already near bankruptcy. You have clearly no idea what you are talking about.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on October 14, 2013, 05:46:09 pm
The Japanese population was taught that surrender was not an option and every one of them was willing to meaningless throw away their lives, if that was ordered or necessary to defend the fatherland. Look at Iwo Jima. Look at Okinawa. The head minister of the Admiralty literally said it would be a wonderful thing to happen - The entire nation and its people dead, "gone out as a flower "

A succesful invasion of Japan would not only cost the lives of millions of American, Soviet and other allied soldiers, but also of the nearly the entire Japanese population. Not to mention the war would be extended by years, while all the nations were already near bankruptcy. You have clearly no idea what you are talking about.


So instead of nuking the Emperors palace or military bases? they nuked two cities. but i agree on that it was quick way to end the war. But lets stop this argument we are way off the topic as the admin already told us to stay to if you have any thing more to say send a private msg.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tali on October 14, 2013, 06:05:13 pm
So instead of nuking the Emperors palace or military bases? they nuked two cities. but i agree on that it was quick way to end the war.

Okay, I know I said I'd stop arguing, but this is just to damned good. The admins wont mute us for calling you out on your bullshit (Altough they might mute me if I call you a ignorant dumbass. We'll simply have to wait and see).

World war 2 was a Total war. Very large proportions of the civilian populace did, in one way or another, directly or indirectly, aid the war effort. Bombing civilians is seldom justified, but in the two world wars, one can justify it. And it was used extensivly as a tactic both in Europe and in Asia. One million germans, the majority of whom were civilians, are estimated to have died due to the Allied bombing campaigns.

The nukes were dropped on those cities because the US wanted to end the war as quickly as possible, thus preventing soviet gains in the area. The Soviets declared war upon Japan just shortly before they surrendered, and the Americans feared that the Soviets would take Japan first. As such, the Nukes were dropped in order force the Japanese governments hand in signing a peace beneficial to the US, whilst not beneficial to the Soviets.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 14, 2013, 06:08:17 pm
It's an interesting fact that the majority of the Japanese Cabinet wanted to keep on the fight even after the bombs were dropped. It was the emperor that made an end to it.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on October 14, 2013, 07:31:34 pm
World war 2 was a Total war.

Total war does not excist.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Bramif on October 27, 2013, 05:09:58 pm
Probably Napoleon Bonaparte and Robert E Lee.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Archduke Sven on October 28, 2013, 02:17:38 am
World war 2 was a Total war.

Total war does not excist.

Are you serious? If you are going to say something so blatantly ignorant please back up your ridicoulus statement. You keep saying this every few pages and i've had enough of explaining it.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: GoldenEagle on October 28, 2013, 07:23:38 am
World war 2 was a Total war.

Total war does not excist.

Are you serious? If you are going to say something so blatantly ignorant please back up your ridicoulus statement. You keep saying this every few pages and i've had enough of explaining it.

Really like your signature and avatar man :D
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on October 28, 2013, 01:29:21 pm
World war 2 was a Total war.

Total war does not excist.

Are you serious? If you are going to say something so blatantly ignorant please back up your ridicoulus statement. You keep saying this every few pages and i've had enough of explaining it.

Ok.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Archduke Sven on October 29, 2013, 01:23:21 am
World war 2 was a Total war.

Total war does not excist.

Are you serious? If you are going to say something so blatantly ignorant please back up your ridicoulus statement. You keep saying this every few pages and i've had enough of explaining it.

Ok.

Thanks for reminding me that some of us were born with a brain.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on October 29, 2013, 03:31:26 pm
Spoiler
World war 2 was a Total war.

Total war does not excist.

Are you serious? If you are going to say something so blatantly ignorant please back up your ridicoulus statement. You keep saying this every few pages and i've had enough of explaining it.

Ok.

Thanks for reminding me that some of us were born with a brain.
[close]

ALways happy to be of service.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Price on October 29, 2013, 03:41:38 pm
Robert E. Lee and Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Chrono85 on October 30, 2013, 02:12:09 am
I'm going to go with Lincoln and Grant. Lincoln was a great and principled leader, who saw the US through the toughest time in its history, and ultimately helped assure its preservation as one nation. He also issued the emancipation proclamation, and championed hard for the 13th amendment which liberated many people from bondage. Grant was a great military general who stepped up to the challenge posed by Lee, and outdid him, at a time when it was needed most. He had a tough time as president, but that wasn't really all his fault, considering the challenges of the reconstruction.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on October 30, 2013, 06:33:09 pm
The emancipation proclamation was just a scheme. It only liberated slaves in the Confederate states - Any in the North were not liberated. It main goals were recruitment and diplomacy - by taking a clear statement concerning the slavery debate, the USA hoped to not only get abolitionists and negroes into the army, but also to keep the UK and France out of the war. Lincoln, in truth, only created a problem and then received credit for 'solving' it.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: AeroNinja on November 16, 2013, 04:43:52 pm
Shimazu Yoshihiro no doubt...
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Fyzzaraya on January 08, 2014, 09:43:54 pm
Shimazu Yoshihiro no doubt...

Hmm,in this case I could say Takeda Shingen,Uesugi Kenshin,Oda Nobunaga,Toyotomi Hideyoshi,Ieyasu etc. A lot of the Sengoku era warlords were skilled leaders but maybe the country being in constant war forced such skills to awaken on some people and gave the chance to others to rise(ex:Hideyoshi).
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Alan Watt on January 09, 2014, 05:13:55 pm
Charles XII,

He got into a war he did not start against multiple enemies, gave a black eye to most of em and is only military leader ever to be have Russia on its knees. Had he marched onward after Battle of Narva there was nothing between his army and Tsar's palace in Moscow.

Well Hitler was too quite close.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on January 09, 2014, 05:21:57 pm
Napoleon occupied the Tsar's palace in Moskou for weeks. He still lost.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on January 09, 2014, 05:22:57 pm
Napoleon occupied the Tsar's palace in Moskou for weeks. He still lost.
He received only burnt down city and undisciplined army in Moscow :P
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on January 09, 2014, 05:27:38 pm
When Napoleon entered Moskou, the Russian military was in full panic. They had no idea what to do and just did nothing. The Tsar, as ever, couldn't make a decision, and therefor neither accepted nor really turned down Napoleons requests for peace. The ball was in his court and he did nothing. In Sint-Petersburg, rumors that the war was lost and over were spreading like wildfire, which led to the arrest of several civilians.

Moskou was far from burned to the ground and the French army was not that much more undisciplined then it usually was. The men were tired as shit though, and they had always thought that entering Moskou would mean an end to the campaign.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on January 09, 2014, 05:43:49 pm
When Napoleon entered Moskou, the Russian military was in full panic. They had no idea what to do and just did nothing. The Tsar, as ever, couldn't make a decision, and therefor neither accepted nor really turned down Napoleons requests for peace. The ball was in his court and he did nothing. In Sint-Petersburg, rumors that the war was lost and over were spreading like wildfire, which led to the arrest of several civilians.

Moskou was far from burned to the ground and the French army was not that much more undisciplined then it usually was. The men were tired as shit though, and they had always thought that entering Moskou would mean an end to the campaign.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Ff%2Ffa%2FPlan_of_Moscow_1813.jpg%2F732px-Plan_of_Moscow_1813.jpg&hash=5113669cfb7ca5582225400fe46cfd2c)
The map of what was destroyed by fire in Moscow.
Russian wasnt in panic, only in despair, because they lost Moscow. Army didnt lose control, it retreated to the South-East to replenish loses and receive the winter equipment. French army was exhausted and fire in Moscow highly damaged the discipline, they lost control and started massive looting and killings of civilians, also deserting from army increased. Also Napoleon couldnt use the Moscow as winter quarter and wanted to retreat to Smolensk, but using the Kaluga road instead of old Smolensk road (which was looted), but after Maloyaroslavec he was forced to use the second road.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Alan Watt on January 09, 2014, 06:03:51 pm
Napoleon occupied the Tsar's palace in Moskou for weeks. He still lost.
He received only burnt down city and undisciplined army in Moscow :P

Difference was that Russia had lost it entire army in Narva thus they had no army to retreat with and burn Moscow down while with Napoleon it was all along to plan get him as deep as possible in Russia and let the winter do its job. Even still the final battle between army of Russia and Napoleon ended in draw but Napoleon had to start leave Russia due to supplies were low and thats when Russian army started to hunt French troops while they moved in march formation.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on January 09, 2014, 06:28:52 pm
The Russian released their propaganda system after the campaign and acted like it was all meant. It wasn't. Moskou wasn't given up because of some master trick, but simply because the Russian army couldn't stop Napoleon. I don't trust that map, because it's Russian and shows a caricature of Napoleon, which is not something done in official military or government maps. This is a souvenir.

Every city under the French was looted. In fact, nearly every city was looted by every nation. It was (a sad) standard procedure.

Quote
thus they had no army to retreat with and burn Moscow down while with Napoleon it was all along to plan get him as deep as possible in Russia and let the winter do its job

That is pure bullshit. The Russians tried to stop the French multiple times, most famously at Borodino. The Russian army kept retreating because they (quite rightfully) assumed the French army was too powerful. The fact that winter arrived was a disaster for not just the French, but for the Russians who suffered just as much.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on January 09, 2014, 09:05:51 pm
Charles XII,

He got into a war he did not start against multiple enemies, gave a black eye to most of em and is only military leader ever to be have Russia on its knees. Had he marched onward after Battle of Narva there was nothing between his army and Tsar's palace in Moscow.

Well Hitler was too quite close.


Except Poltava and poland where we lost our army.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Archduke Sven on January 09, 2014, 09:14:42 pm
Charles XII,

He got into a war he did not start against multiple enemies, gave a black eye to most of em and is only military leader ever to be have Russia on its knees. Had he marched onward after Battle of Narva there was nothing between his army and Tsar's palace in Moscow.

Well Hitler was too quite close.

Actually the Poles kicked the Russian's arses and captured Moscow in 1610. Not counting Napoleon of course.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: KillerMongoose on January 09, 2014, 09:29:49 pm
Duuring summed up everything I have to say about the Russian winter campaign. Everybody thinks Russia was so smart and brave and tough and Napoleon was such a fool for attacking Russia in the winter but in reality he pretty much booted the Russian army in the arse and sent them packing while he pissed all over Moscow like "fuck you guys I've got your Tsar's palace and shit"
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Palfer on January 10, 2014, 03:22:16 pm
King George V., Elizabeth II., the entire current Royal Family, Maggy Thatcher, Churchill, Cameron, John Moore, Wellington, Mussolini, JFK, Martin Luther King Jr., Henry VIII (and Tudors) and William V.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on January 10, 2014, 03:38:41 pm
William V.

Wait, the Prince of Orange one? You must be kidding  :P
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Alan Watt on January 10, 2014, 04:23:58 pm
Charles XII,

He got into a war he did not start against multiple enemies, gave a black eye to most of em and is only military leader ever to be have Russia on its knees. Had he marched onward after Battle of Narva there was nothing between his army and Tsar's palace in Moscow.

Well Hitler was too quite close.


Except Poltava and poland where we lost our army.

Yes but those were later and one time chance had gone already. In Poltava Charles met Russian's new army that was better trained and armed than back in Narva. So in short Charles did same mistake as Hannibal in with Rome.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Kapi on January 11, 2014, 09:30:23 pm
Otto von Bismarck.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: DaveTheBrave on January 11, 2014, 09:32:53 pm
Churchill and Carl XII
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Palfer on January 11, 2014, 11:20:25 pm
Palfer
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: George385 on January 14, 2014, 10:17:24 am
Palfer

u wot m8
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: stylish on January 16, 2014, 03:14:07 pm
William of Orange
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Shortshorts on January 16, 2014, 03:54:03 pm
Birger Jarl, ruthless ambition at its finest.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on January 16, 2014, 05:24:30 pm
Birger Jarl, ruthless ambition at its finest.


Holy shit thats true, how did i forget Birger Jarl :(
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: MikkelRev on January 16, 2014, 09:18:04 pm
Harald Hårfagre. United Norway.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: GrandMaster on February 13, 2014, 01:41:10 am
Suleiman the Magnificant, on the basis that he was a kebab who always wore a mighty Onion Hat.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: stylish on February 18, 2014, 10:00:22 pm
Napoleon, William of Orange, William III of Orange, Charlemagne
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on February 18, 2014, 10:03:43 pm
Napoleon?

Booh!
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on February 18, 2014, 10:27:52 pm
Pyrrhus
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Pinkamena on February 19, 2014, 11:08:27 am
(https://i.imgur.com/vCHeGbw.jpg)
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk
The Greatest Kebab

To quote a silly, yet completely credible and enjoyable site;

Quote from: Badass of the Week
Kemal's victories weren't enough to save the declining Empire from defeat, however, and despite Kemal's best efforts to kill everyone in the world, the Istanbul government finally capitulated to the British and French. The Western powers, pissed off about the whole "world war" thing, placed a super-harsh, Treaty of Versailles-style series of punishments on the Turks, forcing them to pay tribute, redrawing country boundaries, and carving up their land among the western powers.

Once again, Kemal had to put his sack down and tell the West to go f**k a donkey. This badass military commander didn't bust people up and down the Gallipoli shores just to sit back and let a bunch of goddamned Europeans take over his peoples' lands, and he immediately rejected the terms of the surrender, left Istanbul in a boat in the middle of the night, crossed the Black Sea, established a new governmental capital at Ankara, and declared open revolt against the foreign powers occupying his homeland. For the next two years, this tenacious, no-bullshit asskicker he battled the combined forces of France, Britain, and Greece, halting their offensive on his new capital, crushing them in battle, throwing them back to the Mediterranean, chasing the reinstated Sultan out of Istanbul for the second time, and finally establishing Turkish independence from foreign rule. Suck on that, trolls.

Long story short, great commander in WW1, salvaged Turkey from a crippling peace deal, and then created the first stable non-Islamist democracy in the Middle East. Some reason he's always been a favorite of mine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on February 19, 2014, 04:31:23 pm
he also lead the massacre of Smyrna... and participated in the mass genocide of Armenians.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on February 19, 2014, 05:26:08 pm
Nestor Makhno, many instances of his mythical heroism. - here is but one event.

Quote
It was . . . in September 1918, that Makhno received the nickname Batko -- general leader of the revolutionary insurrection in the Ukraine.
This took place in the following circumstances. Local pomeshchiks [landed gentry] in the major centres, the kulaks [rich peasants], and the German authorities [the Ukraine being occupied by them at the time], decided to eliminate Makhno and his detachment [of partisans] at any cost.
The pomeshchiks created a special volunteer detachment consisting of their own sons and those of kulaks for the decisive struggle against Makhno. On the 30th of September this detachment, with the help of the Austro-Germans, cornered Makhno in the region of Bol'shaya Mihhailovka, setting up strong military posts on all roads. At this time Makhno found himself with only 30 partisans and one machine gun. He was forced to make a fighting retreat, manoeuvring in the midst of numerous enemy forces. Arriving in the forest of Dibrivki, Makhno found himself in an extremely difficult situation.
The paths of retreat were occupied by the enemy. It was impossible for the detachment to break through, and escaping individually was beneath their revolutionary dignity. No-one in the detachment would agree to abandon their leader so as to save himself. After some reflection, two days later, Makhno decided to return to the village of Bol'shaya Mikhailovka (Dibrivki). Leaving the forest the partisans met peasants who came to warn them that there were large enemy forces in Dibrivki and that they should make haste to go elsewhere. This information did not stop Makhno and his partisans . . . [and] they set out for Bol'shaya Mikhailovka.

They approached the village guardedly. Makhno himself and a few of his comrades went on reconnaissance and saw a large enemy camp on the church square, dozens of machine guns, hundreds of saddle horses, and groups of cavalry. Peasants informed them that a battalion of Austrians and a special pomeshchik detachment were in the village. Retreat was impossible. Then Makhno, with his usual stubbornness and determination, said to his companions: 'Well, my friends! We should all be ready to die on this spot . . .' The movement was ominous, the men were firm and full of enthusiasm. All 30 saw only one path before them -- the path toward the enemy, who had about a thousand well-armed men, and they all realised that this meant certain death for them. All were moved, but none lost courage.

"It was at this movement that one of the partisans, Shchus', turned to Makhno and said:

"'From now on you will be Batko to all of us, and we vow to die with you in the ranks of the insurgents.'

"Then the whole detachment swore never to abandon the insurgent ranks, and to consider Makhno the general Batko of the entire revolutionary insurrection. Then they prepared to attack. Shchus' with five to seven men was assigned to attack the flank of the enemy. Makhno with the others attacked from the front. With a ferocious 'Hurrah!' the partisans threw themselves headlong against the enemy, smiting the very centre with sabres, rifles and revolvers. The attack had a shattering effect. The enemy, who were expecting nothing of the kind, were bowled over and began to flee in panic, saving themselves in groups and individually, abandoning arms, machine guns and horses. Without leaving them time to come to themselves, to become aware of the number of attacking forces, and to pass to a counter-attack, the insurgents chased them in separate groups, cutting them down in full gallop. A part of the pomeshchik detachment fled to the Volchya River, where they were drowned by peasants who had joined the battle. The enemy's defeat was complete.

"Local peasants and detachments of revolutionary insurgents came from all directions to triumphantly acclaim the heroes. They unanimously agreed to consider Makhno as Batko of the entire revolutionary insurrection in the Urkaine.
- Peter Arshinov



Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: MR_Cheath on February 19, 2014, 06:00:34 pm
Well, let us not forget Jesus son of God! He was king of the jews, which he brought much glory!
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Pinkamena on February 19, 2014, 09:24:29 pm
he also lead the massacre of Smyrna... and participated in the mass genocide of Armenians.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure there was a genocide, or at least mass murder, but the lack of clear evidence at all about the entire episode makes it hard to just arbitrarily pin it all on Kemal. We could go for hours about if he was or wasn't guilty, but I think we can agree all great men have blotches on their names, true or not.

I myself? I don't think Ataturk was involved, at least not knowingly or directly. What you think though is up to you, and as I said, the lack of clear evidence makes it hard to justify it either way.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Rival Ze GOD on February 21, 2014, 03:44:02 am
WHO COULD FORGET ABOUT WALKO!
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Furrnox on February 21, 2014, 08:42:12 am
Albin Hansson and Olof Palme seems like cool leaders of Sweden.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Bruin on February 26, 2014, 04:17:39 am
Napoleon
Julius Caesar
Frederick the Great
Alexander the Great
Charles Martel

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Zzehth on February 26, 2014, 07:08:14 am
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fglutenismybitch.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F01%2Frichard32.jpg&hash=4153ead86ad8875fb89adccc22ac588b)
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Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on February 26, 2014, 01:13:44 pm
But admin plz..
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: SilentMan on February 26, 2014, 01:38:46 pm
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fglutenismybitch.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F01%2Frichard32.jpg&hash=4153ead86ad8875fb89adccc22ac588b)
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reprted enjoi ur ban
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on February 26, 2014, 08:59:17 pm
Hitler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Bspoiler%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fglutenismybitch.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F01%2Frichard32.jpg&hash=27c55d662a8302c6db1e265dc8a5917b)
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[/img][/spoiler]

reprted enjoi ur ban

Stupid.
Richard Simmons was a fantastic leader with the ability to pull and hold the general public to his cause in the beginning with charisma.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Archduke Sven on February 26, 2014, 09:15:13 pm
Richard Simmons was actually an idiot, for anything outside of politics and rhetorics.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Gizmo on February 26, 2014, 09:15:58 pm
Well, you answered by a quote. I'm gonna do the same. Tali's post clearly explains why considering Richard Simmons as a great Leader is kinda stupid.

If the leader of my country, democraticly elected or not, started the bloodiest conflict in the history of mankind, leading to millions of dead countrymen, the virtual destruction of every major city in my country, the loss of sovereignty for several years and my country beeing split into four (later two) parts for 50 years, I'd sure as hell wouldn't consider him my favorite. I am very interested in your reasoning here.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Archduke Sven on February 26, 2014, 09:17:27 pm
I think most people who think Richard Simmons was sometype of great man are quite misinformed.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on February 26, 2014, 09:17:55 pm
He was not bad at painting ...
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Gizmo on February 26, 2014, 09:19:57 pm
Wrong thread bro...
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Zzehth on February 26, 2014, 09:22:08 pm
Nahh but for real, my favorite leader is called Ignacio Zaragoza, he was a mexican general. He actually beated the french army when they invaded Mexico for the 2nd time.

I dont know if you guys know him, probably by 5 de Mayo or Siege of Puebla.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: SeanBeansShako on February 26, 2014, 09:42:35 pm
Keep the Nazi scum bags and open fascists out of the thread guys, even in a joke context it still looks pretty bad thanks.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tibbert on February 27, 2014, 03:36:42 am
Keep the Nazi scum bags and open fascists out of the thread guys, even in a joke context it still looks pretty bad thanks.
lol
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on March 06, 2014, 05:34:01 am
Hannibal.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Rival Ze GOD on March 06, 2014, 05:34:50 am
Walko.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Ulfric Kaas on March 06, 2014, 11:46:30 pm
Robert the Bruce
Alexander the Great
Philip II of Macedon
Julius Caesar
Hannibal
Napoleon Bonaparte
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Herishey on March 06, 2014, 11:58:28 pm
Robert the Bruce
Alexander the Great
Philip II of Macedon
Julius Caesar
Hannibal
Napoleon Bonaparte
Pffft Robert the Bruce was a traitor and a foul leader to start. But granted he learnt his lesson and did well by the end.

In my opinion the greatest leader was Julius Caesar.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: ClearlyInvsible on March 06, 2014, 11:58:38 pm
Saladin.

Come on guys, everyone has to acknowledge the badass that was Saladin.

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/saladin.html
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Ulfric Kaas on March 07, 2014, 11:12:19 am
Robert the Bruce
Alexander the Great
Philip II of Macedon
Julius Caesar
Hannibal
Napoleon Bonaparte
Pffft Robert the Bruce was a traitor and a foul leader to start. But granted he learnt his lesson and did well by the end.

In my opinion the greatest leader was Julius Caesar.
I see your point but then again the current king of Scotland was I would say anyway the worst Scottish king ever to rule :P
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Aiello on March 07, 2014, 06:20:44 pm
I see your point but then again the current king of Scotland was I would say anyway the worst Scottish king ever to rule :P

I think we can all agree that Forest Whitaker was clearly the best Scottish King (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_King_of_Scotland_(film)).
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Brock on March 08, 2014, 08:03:33 am
The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved millions of lives. If you do not understand that, you are really not worth any of our time.

Saved Americans do you mean that Americans are worth more then japanese lives? and if im not worth talking to why do you continue then? and the saved japanese lives just proves that the Americans would have caused civil causilties if they would have landed.

Just want to add that a invasion of mainland japan would cost more American and Japanese lives. Japanese citizens were organized into militias ready for a marine invasion. Plus, it allowed japan to be developed into a successful nation instead of a soviet bloc state. If anything, it made japan into a better place in the long run.

Teddy Roosevelt
JFK
Andrew Jackson
Rommel- too OP

Basically anyone with a certain degree of nationalism and the commitment to bring his peoples to glory.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on March 08, 2014, 11:03:05 am
Rommel wasn't a nationalist.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Archduke Sven on March 08, 2014, 11:11:07 am
Rommel wasn't a nationalist.

Yes he was, he was so concerned with the future of Germany and it's people that he joined a movement which planned to kill Hitler.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on March 08, 2014, 04:41:50 pm
Wanting to kill Hitler makes you a good person, but not a nationalist. His commitment to victory came forth from professionalism as a soldier, not out of nationalism.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Archduke Sven on March 08, 2014, 04:51:11 pm
I'm not saying he was a rabid nationalist, but by reading his memoirs and those of his son Manfred you get the idea that he was atleast patriotic.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on March 08, 2014, 04:55:24 pm
Sure, but that's certainly not the same as being nationalistic.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Fungus on March 10, 2014, 12:24:43 am
A gent that I have always admired for his commanding abilities
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Graham,_1st_Marquess_of_Montrose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Graham,_1st_Marquess_of_Montrose)

some extra reading -
http://bcw-project.org/biography/james-graham-marquis-of-montrose (http://bcw-project.org/biography/james-graham-marquis-of-montrose)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Wes on March 11, 2014, 11:15:50 pm
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-G8TYqzDZsLQ%2FTtfdKiqBLcI%2FAAAAAAAAEVw%2FIfKKOKzHQms%2Fs400%2Fstalin_384x350.jpg&hash=c8fd3cae46f3ff091a8cbc17091e12c3)
Uncle Stalin Wins instantly with his superior mustache.

Appropriate.
Spoiler
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Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Bramif on March 12, 2014, 03:53:35 pm
Stalin man... He's just beautiful!
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Tibbert on March 12, 2014, 04:03:27 pm
ban please
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on March 14, 2014, 05:30:03 am
Rommel/Hannibal
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Ulfric Kaas on March 21, 2014, 09:39:07 pm
This shall settle the debate with Hitler and Stalin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho3FKqcEjZY
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Nitishajack on April 20, 2014, 08:28:33 am
Personally I have always been a fan of Boudicca (aka Boudicea/Boadicea) The Celtic Warrior Queen of the Iceni tribe in the times of Celtic Britain's Roman invasion. Her story is fascinating and her actions were simply amazing. If you don't know who she is I definately recommend researchiing her!
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: csderp on May 11, 2014, 09:27:29 pm
Carl XVI Gustaf. Current King of Sweden.

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fzverige.com%2Fkingkong%2Fgrafica%2FCarl_XVI_Gustaf_09_600x425.jpg&hash=663e891b5e15333e0d305a5f0f418cd0)
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(https://i.imgur.com/NYDYCYJ.jpg)
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Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: CharlesVasser on May 12, 2014, 09:22:51 am
Carl XVI Gustaf. Current King of Sweden.

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fzverige.com%2Fkingkong%2Fgrafica%2FCarl_XVI_Gustaf_09_600x425.jpg&hash=663e891b5e15333e0d305a5f0f418cd0)
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Leave knugen alone! xD
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on May 13, 2014, 04:31:58 am
i cream over Spartacus


Genghis Khan is pretty cool too
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Becker- on May 13, 2014, 06:54:05 am
Nobody fucked the commies like Reagan.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.posters57.com%2Fimages%2FRONALD-REAGAN%281%29.jpg&hash=b32a0cdfaf2ebdb89fed182cce56dd96)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on May 13, 2014, 10:48:56 am
Spoiler
Nobody fucked the commies like Reagan.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.posters57.com%2Fimages%2FRONALD-REAGAN%281%29.jpg&hash=b32a0cdfaf2ebdb89fed182cce56dd96)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lIqNjC1RKU
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Benvolio on May 15, 2014, 07:06:56 am
Uesugi Kenshin -- greatest general of his time (in Japan). defeated Nobunaga and his best generals and most likely would have ended his bid to conquer Japan if he would not have died from heavy drinking.

Gustavus Adolphus -- completely revolutionized European warfare in an awkward time in its history. Armies were larger than they had ever been in Europe and though he was a genius on the battlefield itself he was even better logistically which is the most important part of warfare.

Napoleon -- a genius strategically, logistically and tactically but his downfall was being a megalomaniac and underestimating the Russians.

Erwin Rommel -- read about his feats during WW1 and you'll be awe-struck. This guy was a legitimate legend. In the period between the World Wars, US generals (Patton in particular) extensively studied his decisions during the war and his writings after WW1. Patton actually kept one of Rommel's books with him during campaign and based his decisions around it.

Frederick the Great -- probably my favorite general. He never had real military training. He learned "on the fly" and by reading about ancient Greek battles. Although he pretty much split the major battles of the Seven Years' War in the Win-Loss category he was always able to keep his army intact or handled defeat better than his opponents. It cannot be overlooked that he held off France, Austria, Russia, Sweden and various German states during that time period. He was also an excellent flute player and being able to play his own compositions requires excellence as he wrote very difficult pieces. On top of that he also oversaw an excellent court filled with not only talented musicians but philosophical giants.

Hubert Lyautey -- French general during the late 1800s and early 1900s. Pacified Morocco with minimal resources and intense political interference. Vocally opposed war in Europe pre and during WW1 and expressed the stupidity of the conflict. Stepped down from his command during the war due to being unable to carry out his plans during the war which arguably would have saved many lives. Many in the army at the time thought that if the politicians would have given him lee way to do what he wanted that the disaster of the French offensive of 1917 that cost the country 33,000 men would have been avoided (he openly opposed the plans and warned that they would result in heavy casualties). A grandfather of counter-insurgency warfare (his Tonkin, Madagascar and Morocco campaigns).
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Marcellus on May 27, 2014, 09:16:09 pm
Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck wasn't the greatest general of all time and some of his deeds may seem controversial, but his knowledge of the area (German East Africa) and the guerilla warfare were truly one-of-a-kind in WWI. His troops consisted mainly of African askaris who knew how to traverse the lands. He never lost a battle.

But: Lettow-Vorbeck supported General von Trotha's use of genocidal warfare in the uprisings of the Herero and Nama. He also made friends with Jan Christiaan Smuts, a major supporter of apartheid.

Still, he helped his former askaris gain their pay and pension. He also seemed to have an ambivalent relationship to the Nazis, occasionally giving speeches at their rallies until 1938, but he was forbidden from talking publicly by propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels because of his deep respect for his askaris.

When offered an ambassadorship by Hitler:  "'I understand that von Lettow told Hitler to go fuck himself.' The nephew responded, 'That's right, except that I don't think he put it that politely.'" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_von_Lettow-Vorbeck#Post-war_career (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_von_Lettow-Vorbeck#Post-war_career)). (I don't know if this is confirmed, and it seems kind of unlikely for someone to insult Hitler and get away with it. But true or not, it makes for a nice anecdote.)

This is a clip from 1964 of some of L.-V.'s former askaris honouring him after his death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuM8AxJTpbo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuM8AxJTpbo)
Translation to the best of my ability: "Us old gentlemen are here for remembrance. We cannot forget our old Lettow-Vorbeck and we wish for Mister Lettow-Vorbeck not to forget us. We, the German soldiers, we fear God, but nothing else in the world."
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Conway on July 06, 2014, 06:11:20 am
Ahem....
Sir Isaac Brock
The Duke of Wellington
Napoleon Bonaparte
Michel Ney
Robert de Bruce
Alexander The Great
Adolf Hitler
George Patton
William Cornwallis
Robert E Lee
Joey Smallwood
Danny Williams
Winston Churchill
William Wallace
John F Kennedy
William Mackenzie King
Frank Bourne
John A Macdonald
Charles de Salaberry
Tecumseh
Horatio Nelson
Hannibal Barca
Julius Caesar
Vladimir Lenin

Beat that!

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: BobNLarry on July 06, 2014, 08:38:06 am
Götz von Berlichingen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tz_von_Berlichingen
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Saxon on July 06, 2014, 03:52:57 pm
I would have to say Sun Tzu.
However little is known in comparison to other generals, he did shape military theory.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Bruin on July 13, 2014, 07:32:34 am
Alexander the Great

-Will always be #1 for me.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Zzehth on July 13, 2014, 08:39:29 pm
[12th]Col_Tico

Always
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on July 13, 2014, 08:48:03 pm
[12th]Col_Tico

Always
So tru.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: SherlockCat on July 13, 2014, 09:26:43 pm
Pol Pot, the best leader in existence. It's not like he killed millions of his countrymen for no real reason.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Who- on July 17, 2014, 01:59:06 pm
[12th]Col_Tico

Always
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Saxon on July 17, 2014, 05:13:10 pm
Pol Pot, the best leader in existence. It's not like he killed millions of his countrymen for no real reason.

Don't forget Saddam Hussein
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on July 17, 2014, 05:25:53 pm
Buenaventura Durruti.

He succeeded in welding together 10,000 volunteers without previous military training and experience of any sort. No military brow-beating, no coercion, no disciplinary punishment was needed to hold the Durruti column at the front. They triumphed in much of Spain despite the fascist superiority in weapons and resources. The anarchist contribution was decisive in resisting the fascists throughout the country and in Catalonia defeated the rebels singlehandedly, Durruti being one of the boldest fighters.

He was a man who fought for his union and ideals; who never sought any special privileges for himself, who acted as much as he read or thought, who loved, dreamed and was determined to leave this world a better place than when he entered it. Can't say that for any other general, they were mostly one dimensional brutes.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Conway on July 17, 2014, 05:28:57 pm
Pol Pot, the best leader in existence. It's not like he killed millions of his countrymen for no real reason.

Don't forget Saddam Hussein

I feel like Ketchup is Friths child.....
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Saxon on July 17, 2014, 06:08:13 pm
Pol Pot, the best leader in existence. It's not like he killed millions of his countrymen for no real reason.

Don't forget Saddam Hussein

I feel like Ketchup is Friths child.....

He did adopt me
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Andrew on July 17, 2014, 10:09:40 pm
John Oxford :'(
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on July 21, 2014, 05:28:03 am
I probably already said it but fuck it...CAESAR!

We who are about to die, salute you!
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Theodin on July 21, 2014, 05:35:31 am
[15thYork]Col_PurplePanda
Spoiler
nah jk, probs Churchill
[close]
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Saxon on July 21, 2014, 08:59:48 pm
Cyrus the great is pretty fucking cool
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Pol Pot on July 26, 2014, 11:08:02 am
I would naturally go with comrade Stalin, for his great deeds throughout his life. From robbing armed transports prior to the revolution, to leading the successful defense of Tsaritsyn during the civil war, to becoming the leader of the first socialist state and in the process industrializing Soviet Russia as well as defending it against the fascist invaders.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on July 26, 2014, 05:05:44 pm
And killing a few million people along the way, many of which were either entirely innocent or fellow communists.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on July 28, 2014, 01:47:02 am
And killing a few million people along the way, many of which were either entirely innocent or fellow communists.
Hey there. To make an egalitarian utopia omelette, you gotta break a few eggs
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Bluehawk on July 28, 2014, 01:58:11 am
You also have to make it egalitarian at some point.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on July 28, 2014, 02:05:53 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xpbgfkF9yk

Nestor Makhno, their most influential military strategist and a skilled anarchist organizer.
Grossly outnumbered and outgunned volunteer anarchist militias successfully defeated the armies of the Germans, the Austrians, the Ukrainian nationalists, and the White Russians. It took a professional army supplied by the world’s greatest industrial powers and simultaneous betrayal by their Bolshevik allies to stop them. If they had known then what we know now — that authoritarian revolutionaries can be as tyrannical as capitalist governments — and Russian anarchists in Moscow and St. Petersburg had succeeded in preventing the Bolsheviks from hijacking the Russian Revolution, things might have turned out differently.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on July 28, 2014, 02:32:26 am
You also have to make it egalitarian at some point.
I don't know what history books you read but the equation is simple

Communism+Human Nature+1 megalomaniac=utopian paradise
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on July 28, 2014, 03:10:43 am
Personally, I think any argument that centers around "human nature" is nonsense. This human nature argument is ages old, and it is a malicious argument used by capitalists to explain why their system is the only possible system. This strategy has been used to support every oppressive form of human relations in the past. Against blacks, Jews, Hispanics, Slavs, Women, etc. They were all stupid "by nature", so enslaving them and oppressing them was no problem. The same goes for this argument of greed. It is a convenient idea to believe when you have all the power to use your greed to hurt others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter-gatherer#Social_and_economic_structure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Carson on July 28, 2014, 05:16:50 am
[15thYork]Col_PurplePanda
Spoiler
nah jk, probs Churchill George S. Patton
[close]
24th Ragnarson
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Zzehth on July 28, 2014, 06:31:08 am
[12th]Col_Tico

Always
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: EdwardC on July 28, 2014, 08:05:07 am
 Attila the Hun, only because i watched the movie Attila (2001) a few days ago. This can change.



(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cinemotions.com%2Fdata%2Ffilms%2F0065%2F61%2F2%2Fphoto-Attila-le-Hun-Attila-2001-1.jpg&hash=2c15f8647eeb71c38914fc97df11e6ab)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Saxon on July 28, 2014, 11:55:07 am
Attila the Hun, only because i watched the movie Attila (2001) a few days ago. This can change.

ketchup



(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cinemotions.com%2Fdata%2Ffilms%2F0065%2F61%2F2%2Fphoto-Attila-le-Hun-Attila-2001-1.jpg&hash=2c15f8647eeb71c38914fc97df11e6ab)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: LeeUntFischer on July 29, 2014, 02:51:41 pm
Benito Mussolini. Nah j/ks, obama ftw #hopebama
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Toffee on August 03, 2014, 11:08:16 am
David Cameron.
Said no one ever.....
Putin shall rise up and lead the motherland to greatness!
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: EdwardC on August 03, 2014, 11:28:24 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ8Wwvnhctk
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: dukeofwellington on August 06, 2014, 02:47:16 am
Revolutionary period:
King George III
Lord Cornwallis
Benedict Arnold


Napoleonic period:
Duke of Wellington
Issac Brock
Sir Ralph Abercromby
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on August 06, 2014, 11:18:08 am
Do I get muted if I say Hitler? After all, Germany (where the FSE servers are hosted) tries to pretend that he never existed. (*coughs*, ashamed)

He rose from an injured soldier (and a failed, impoverished artist in Vienna in the 1920s) to the steely leader of Germany.
He started opposing the Weimar Republic from 1923, yet, funnily enough, was invited to be the Germany Chancellor by the President.
He intensified Germany' secret re-arnament from 1933...
He cleverly broke GER's diplomatic isolation with 10 year non aggression pacts.
He had the balls (or startegic mind) to gradually start extending Germany's territorial reach in Europe.
Spoiler
He gassed the Jews, Negroes, Catholics, Handicapped, Gypsies, Communists, etc etc, in order to create the puurrfect Aryan Master Race
[close]
No wait, that's a bad thing.  WAIT admin! I meant that he advocated or multiculturalism, and equal employment terms for all, regardless of gender or ethnicity, all while maintaining a tolerant political environment, where political pluralism was the key.
What a man.
[Get the sarcasm, Internet? No? Then you should be mentioned in the spoiler above ^ too.]

(0ther leaders: Napoleon, Churchwill, Maggie Thatcher, FDR, Hailie Selassie, Mao, Tricky Dick (R. Nixon), Diem (Vietnamese ruler), Andreas Papandreou (and his son), and a lot more)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Toffee on August 06, 2014, 01:12:12 pm
Favourite all time leader= Gaz
I have to say this so I don't get demoted
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Shade on August 06, 2014, 01:43:31 pm
Do I get muted if I say Hitler? After all, Germany (where the FSE servers are hosted) tries to pretend that he never existed. (*coughs*, ashamed)

He rose from an injured soldier (and a failed, impoverished artist in Vienna in the 1920s) to the steely leader of Germany.
He started opposing the Weimar Republic from 1923, yet, funnily enough, was invited to be the Germany Chancellor by the President.
He intensified Germany' secret re-arnament from 1933...
He cleverly broke GER's diplomatic isolation with 10 year non aggression pacts.
He had the balls (or startegic mind) to gradually start extending Germany's territorial reach in Europe.
Spoiler
He gassed the Jews, Negroes, Catholics, Handicapped, Gypsies, Communists, etc etc, in order to create the puurrfect Aryan Master Race
[close]
No wait, that's a bad thing.  WAIT admin! I meant that he advocated or multiculturalism, and equal employment terms for all, regardless of gender or ethnicity, all while maintaining a tolerant political environment, where political pluralism was the key.
What a man.
[Get the sarcasm, Internet? No? Then you should be mentioned in the spoiler above ^ too.]

Some of what you say is true, though some of it is unacceptable regardless of the (poor, in my opionon) humor and what you describe as sarcasm it contains.


The President, Hindenburg, did never like Hitler, but in fact he often disrespected, disregarded and on many occasions ridiculed him by , for example, calling him the "Bohemian corporal".

Hindenburg was old and he, officially,  made Hitler become the chancellor, but what happened in the background and what made Hindenburg decide so was not mentioned by you.

A national conservative "circle" , a group of politicians mostly of noble and wealthy birth advising him in his political decisions saw their own interests in Hitler becoming cancellor, and in order to increase their own power supported him.

Hindenburg was surrounded by DNVP and conservative politicians of other parties (such as von Papen). The "Deutsche Nationale Volkspartei" was a , as I said, conservative party that was somewhat still loyal to the emperor.

Additionally, Hitler received high financial support by several German concerns of the steel and arms industry because these expected a lot of contracts and money from him once he would lead and they expected him to protect them and the German economy from the socialists and communists who were , at the time, almost equal in strength with Hitler.
The companies' money allowed him to travel around all of Germany, hold speeches and hangup election posters in almost  every German town and village as well as pay decent wages to the SA members(many people joined the SA because you'd get food and decent pay in a time of mass unemployment and poverty).

This part of the population,  a small group of wealthy conservatives and industrials, highly supported Hitler and put him into power, it was neither himself ( as you claim) or his party, nor the German voters (in fact in the few years  before his cancellorship things lookes bad for him with loss in members, bad election results and a financial situation getting worse and worse).

The political elite which lead these circles of people, mostly DNVP members, also thought that they would only use Hitler.
Hitler had to coalite with them inorder to form a government and so had they with him.
The plan was to put him as the cancellor of a government with mainly DNVP ministers and a DNVP president, Hindenburg.
Like that they thought they would enchain Hitler and put him under control, use him to gain power and restore order themselves.

The political structure of Germany before his takeover, the easy to exploit constitution and the serveral laws allowed Hitler to quickly expand his control over government and country.

Once he was in power, he began to seize most of which remained still in other hands.
There was serveral laws made that basically got rid of any oppositon, there was an order to shot Communists (who were his strongest counterpart) on sight.
Additionally, the seperation of powers was removed, so noone could stop him in bringing the state under his control.

Laws to bring political enemies in the predecessors of concentration camps were on the way.

On his takeover, Hitler did not only kill his political enemies, but also many of those who had helped him into power and those who knew much about him, even members of the same circles, incuding people from the cultis scene who are said to have helped Hitler at the very start of his carreer.

Granted, Hitler did , for the moment, improve the economic situation, but true is also that the improvements  had a high price in from of extemely highdebts .
His plan was to let the defeated countries pay the bills (Poland, France ...).

Hitler did not like you said, singlehandedly take over Germany, it was his supporters that put him in the right position which he knew to exploit and use to his advantage, that's two different things.

Hitler brought terror and sorrow to Germany, Europe and the world, his successes, achievements and "positive traits" are nothing but microscopicly small and irrelevant compared to the tremendous and unspeakable terror, pain and death he caused, period.


I wrote this not only because of you but for everyone who also considers Hitler a great leader or even the greatest in history.

You are wrong.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on August 06, 2014, 02:26:32 pm
Do I get muted if I say Hitler? After all, Germany (where the FSE servers are hosted) tries to pretend that he never existed. (*coughs*, ashamed)

He rose from an injured soldier (and a failed, impoverished artist in Vienna in the 1920s) to the steely leader of Germany.
He started opposing the Weimar Republic from 1923, yet, funnily enough, was invited to be the Germany Chancellor by the President.
He intensified Germany' secret re-arnament from 1933...
He cleverly broke GER's diplomatic isolation with 10 year non aggression pacts.
He had the balls (or startegic mind) to gradually start extending Germany's territorial reach in Europe.
Spoiler
He gassed the Jews, Negroes, Catholics, Handicapped, Gypsies, Communists, etc etc, in order to create the puurrfect Aryan Master Race
[close]
No wait, that's a bad thing.  WAIT admin! I meant that he advocated or multiculturalism, and equal employment terms for all, regardless of gender or ethnicity, all while maintaining a tolerant political environment, where political pluralism was the key.
What a man.
[Get the sarcasm, Internet? No? Then you should be mentioned in the spoiler above ^ too.]

Some of what you say is true, though some of it is unacceptable regardless of the (poor, in my opionon) humor and what you describe as sarcasm it contains.


The President, Hindenburg, did never like Hitler, but in fact he often disrespected, disregarded and on many occasions ridiculed him by , for example, calling him the "Bohemian corporal".

Hindenburg was old and he, officially,  made Hitler become the chancellor, but what happened in the background and what made Hindenburg decide so was not mentioned by you.

A national conservative "circle" , a group of politicians mostly of noble and wealthy birth advising him in his political decisions saw their own interests in Hitler becoming cancellor, and in order to increase their own power supported him.

Hindenburg was surrounded by DNVP politicians, "Deutsche Nationale Volkspartei", a , as I said, conservative party that was somewhat still loyal to the emperor.

Additionally, Hitler received high financial support by several German concerns of the steel and arms industry because these expected a lot of contracts and money from him once he would lead and they expected him to protect them and the German economy from the socialists and communists who were , at the time, almost equal in strength with Hitler.
The companies' money allowed him to travel around all of Germany, hold speeches and hangup election posters in almost  every German town and village as well as pay decent wages to the SA members(many people joined the SA because you'd get food and decent pay in a time of mass unemployment and poverty).

This part of the population,  a small group of wealthy conservatives and industrials, highly supported Hitler and put him into power, it was neither himself ( as you claim) or his party, nor the German voters (in fact in the few years  before his cancellorship things lookes bad for him with loss in members, bad election results and a financial situation getting worse and worse).

The political elite which lead these circles of people, mostly DNVP members, also thought that they would only use Hitler.
Hitler had to coalite with them inorder to form a government and so had they with him.
The plan was to put him as the cancellor of a government with mainly DNVP ministers and a DNVP president, Hindenburg.
Like that they thought they would enchain Hitler and put him under control, use him to gain power and restore order themselves.

The political structure of Germany before his takeover, the easy to exploit constitution and the serveral laws allowed Hitler to quickly expand his control over government and country.

Once he was in power, he began to seize most of which remained still in other hands.
There was serveral laws made that basically got rid of any oppositon, there was an order to shot Communists (who were his strongest counterpart) on sight.
Additionally, the seperation of powers was removed, so noone could stop him in bringing the state under his control.

Laws to bring political enemies in the predecessors of concentration camps were on the way.

On his takeover, Hitler did not only kill his political enemies, but also many of those who had helped him into power and those who knew much about him, even members of the same circles, incuding people from the cultis scene who are said to have helped Hitler at the very start of his carreer.

Granted, Hitler did , for the moment, improve the economic situation, but true is also that the improvements  had a high price in from of extemely highdebts .
His plan was to let the defeated countries pay the bills (Poland, France ...).

Hitler did not like you said, singlehandedly take over Germany, it was his supporters that put him in the right position which he knew to exploit and use to his advantage, that's two different things.

Hitler brought terror and sorrow to Germany, Europe and the world, his successes, achievements and "positive traits" are nothing but microscopicly small and irrelevant compared to the tremendous and unspeakable pain, terror and death he caused, period.

 Too long; didn't read. Copy-paste Textbook stuff that I could find on wiki if I gave a shit about Hitler. How exactly did you manage to take my post seriously?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Shade on August 06, 2014, 02:37:37 pm
I didn't take it seriously, I mentioned the "sarcasm", but it includes statements which simply are utterly false and dangerous and could be taken seriousy by others if not by you.

 I did not copy a single line from a textbook or wikipedia, thank you.

And if you would have read the edit I made then you would know that my reply wasn't only addressed to you.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on August 06, 2014, 02:42:50 pm
And if you would have read the edit I made then you would know that my reply wasn't only addressed to you.

Well I didn't, please pardon me while I bask in my ignorance, O' Master.

Oh and..

You are wrong.
Wow the Communist hammer and sickle makes you so bada$$. Well, happily, Communism didn't work out any better, and now we have our liberal, multicultural, democratic societies. Yay for them.
Now you are free to engage in some rebuttal all of my arguments, and explain to me how insenstive and misinformed I am. Since you have nothing to do with your time, enlighten us with yet another wall of text. C.a.n.t   W.a.i.t.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Toffee on August 06, 2014, 03:37:34 pm
Wow guys lets all just hug and make up :D
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on August 06, 2014, 04:09:36 pm
Sheikh Bedreddin
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Shade on August 06, 2014, 06:47:10 pm


 ;)
 The hammer and sicle is pretty cool, yeah, badass if you will.

And arguably the communism you refer to did probably not wor out, mhm, I could say communism never really was in effect as in like Marx and Engels intended it and therefore can neither have failed nor succeeded, but you know...

Anyway, let's calm down  I didnt mean to offend or upset you, nor enlighten or teach you, neither did I claim you were misinformed(as I said, you were joking and parts of what you said were right)
 let's not fight over this I don't think it's really worth it.

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: EdwardC on August 09, 2014, 12:32:50 pm
Caliph Ibrahim
(https://i.imgur.com/sXZVx2Y.png)
[close]

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Conway on August 12, 2014, 05:31:59 am
Favourite all time leader= Gaz
I have to say this so I don't get demoted

If you think Jeljer will be amused by this you have another thing coming also why no #GamerkiethSwag ?
However Malakoth clrly best line Cpt EU. Dat video made me laught when I saw panos still as a Sgt.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on August 14, 2014, 02:49:37 am
Che Guevara is up there for me. Here's a goodbye letter he wrote to his children if anyone is interested

Spoiler
Dear Hildita, Aleidita, Camilo, Celia and Ernesto,

If you read this letter one day, it will mean that I am no longer alive. You will hardly remember me, and the smallest among you will have entirely forgotten me.

Your father was a man who acted as he thought best and who has been absolutely faithful to his convictions. Grow up into good revolutionaries. Study hard to master technique, which gives you mastery over nature. Remember that it is the Revolution which is important and that each of us, taken in isolation, is worth nothing. Above all be sensitive, in the deepest areas of yourselves, to any injustice committed against whoever it may be anywhere in the world.

Yours always, my children. I hope to see you again.
A big strong kiss from Daddy.
[close]
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 14, 2014, 04:24:38 am
Well, my favourite leader of all time is Hitler as well and the fact that I am German may cause a much bigger flamewar than there has been a few posts ago.

But the question was what the favourite leader would be and my favourite leader is the (in my opinion) best leader. So yeah, Hitler was an an amazingly good leader.

Spoiler
And socialism/communism is much worse than fascism, btw. :P
[close]
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on August 14, 2014, 09:18:01 am
He wasn't a particularly good leader, just very savvy political leader who had a lot of funding from rich industrialists and wielded nationalism. - which helps in mobilising the forces of retardation.

There's a reason why intellectuals almost all are for a form of socialism, because its the superior position.

More leaders that get my dick hard are Buenoventura Durruti, Subcommandante Marcos, Brian Boru and Paul LeGentilhomme.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on August 14, 2014, 11:47:10 am
And socialism/communism is much worse than fascism, btw. :P

How is a system that's built upon the principle to care for all, better then a system built on the principle to care for only the best?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 14, 2014, 01:59:05 pm
And socialism/communism is much worse than fascism, btw. :P

How is a system that's built upon the principle to care for all, better then a system built on the principle to care for only the best?
Socialism killed hundreds of millions of people while fascism got exterminated quite fast.

That's why I don't find it arguable by Shade, posting this:
You are wrong.

It's like saying "Jack the Ripper was bad but Anders Breivik is okay."
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on August 14, 2014, 02:29:26 pm

Socialism killed hundreds of millions of people while fascism got exterminated quite fast.


That takes the cake for being the worst argument in the history of mankind.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 14, 2014, 02:52:14 pm
If the socialism would have got exterminated as well, many people would still be alive ... or dead. The price could have been too high.

I don't mean socialism is bad because it lived longer but because too few saw the danger coming from it.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on August 14, 2014, 03:04:45 pm
You are comparing countries and dictators that called themselves socialist (or rather, communist) to those who called themselves fascist and then merely look at death count, with no regard to period, place, geographical factors, politics and other social problems.

Even worse, you call the man who was destined to exterminate entire people and countries for the sole reason that they existed, a good leader. I'd prefer to call him a madman.

I don't know if you have paid attention, but pretty much every country in western Europe can be considered socialist to some degree.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 14, 2014, 03:26:20 pm
Hitler WAS a good leader. He was also a madman, a good foreign affair politician, a mass murderer and a better painter than me which does not mean much.

Nonetheless, the socialism/communism (I mean in those countries like the Soviet Union, Mao's China, Northern Vietnam and so on) had a much more terrible impact on humanity than the fascism.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on August 14, 2014, 03:32:07 pm
Fascism, um, wasn't over and done with. In fact, it's lasted longer than socialism. Romans, French, South America/Quite a bit of Europe during the Cold War. And whole argument that 100 million and whatever died under communism is ridiculous. You mean to tell me that no one has died under capitalism, democracy, and fascism? I would call Christopher Columbus a capitalist and he alone would be responsible for ushering in the deaths of 100 million native Americans. So right there, I guess the two are even. Whatever the ideology, people with die under it. And when talking about genocides, purges, and wars number should not be a factor.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on August 14, 2014, 03:38:36 pm
Unlike what people think, Northern Vietnam did not have any grotesque communist purges (not more then any country in revolution would have). Meanwhile, the USA had no problems supporting a dictator in South Vietnam that was finally toppled by his own generals. It's a common mistake.

I'm with Augy on this one. Hitler was a savy politician and 'right man' at the moment. Many of his projects were not his own though, and I somehow find that a leader who has no problems throwing away his country's future and that of his people just because he's an asshole, not a very good one. He was also an idiot and stubborn concerning military decisions. Stalingrad, Moskowa, Great Britian, the Balkan, everytime he steered the German army away from victory just because he had changed his mind.

Quote
I would call Christopher Columbus a capitalist and he alone would be responsible for ushering in the deaths of 100 million native Americans. So right there, I guess the two are even.

I grant you 1 Internet for that.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on August 14, 2014, 04:13:02 pm
I grant you 1 Internet for that.
goddamnit dutchie bourgeois scum i know you can gib more internet to the masses
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 14, 2014, 04:57:52 pm
The differende is, that Christopher Columbus just explored new land for his queen. Hitler killed millions of Jews on purpose, Stalin killed millions of anti-revolutionaries and prisoners of war on purpose, Mao let millions of his people die from starvation on purpose.

But I don't want to say that only fascism or only socialism causes such terrible things.
I think especially Duurin knows exactly what I think about republics for example. ::)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on August 14, 2014, 04:59:17 pm
The differende is, that Christopher Columbus just explored new land for his queen. Hitler killed millions of Jews on purpose, Stalin killed millions of anti-revolutionaries and prisoners of war on purpose, Mao let millions of his people die from starvation on purpose.

But I don't want to say that only fascism or only socialism causes such terrible things.
I think especially Duurin knows exactly what I think about republics for example. ::)
Um yeah and when he got there...he killed natives and exploited the land...on purpose
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on August 14, 2014, 05:03:57 pm
The USSR, China, North Korea etc are all State Capitalist, so in essence you are hating on Capitalism.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 14, 2014, 05:07:44 pm
The differende is, that Christopher Columbus just explored new land for his queen. Hitler killed millions of Jews on purpose, Stalin killed millions of anti-revolutionaries and prisoners of war on purpose, Mao let millions of his people die from starvation on purpose.

But I don't want to say that only fascism or only socialism causes such terrible things.
I think especially Duurin knows exactly what I think about republics for example. ::)
Um yeah and when he got there...he killed natives and exploited the land...on purpose
And for that he got punished by his monarch.


The USSR, China, North Korea etc are all State Capitalist, so in essence you are hating on Capitalism.
I don't know what I should think about capitalism but I have a strong antipathy against my own and the US government and corrupt politicians working against their country or against humanity only for their own prosperity.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on August 14, 2014, 05:09:14 pm
The USSR, China, North Korea etc are all State Capitalist, so in essence you are hating on Capitalism.

Come on Augy. Don't ruin that one special moment in which we agree on something. Pls.

Quote
And for that he got punished by his monarch.

Don't be ridiculous.

Quote
I don't know what I should think about capitalism but I have a strong antipathy against my own and the US government and corrupt politicians working against their country or against humanity only for their own prosperity.

I'm pretty sure everybody have an antipathy against corrupt people.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 14, 2014, 05:14:00 pm
Ferdinand II. and Isabella I. believed that it was a crime against god to enslave the natives. When Columbus brought American slaves to Spain, Isabella spared them and brought them back to their homeland.

Later Columbus got dismissed as the governor of the colony.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on August 14, 2014, 05:29:40 pm
Michael Collins and James Connolly.

The USSR, China, North Korea etc are all State Capitalist, so in essence you are hating on Capitalism.

Come on Augy. Don't ruin that one special moment in which we agree on something. Pls.

When i call the USSR state capitalism, i am using a particular definition of the word capitalism. In this definition capitalism means a system where one group of people does the work and a different group of people directs the work and makes all the decisions, including how to spend the surplus generated by the work.

So the USSR clearly met this definition of capitalism. They replaced capitalist bosses with Communist Party commissars but the workers themselves still had no power on the job. So people came up with the name "state capitalism" to describe this, because they wanted to emphasize that Soviet "Communism" was actually similar to capitalism in this way.

In this view true socialism or communism would eliminate class distinction by making the workers their own bosses through more some kind of workplace democracy or consensus process. The key feature of this idea of socialism is that the people who make the decisions are the ones who actually do the work, instead of some separate group of people.

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on August 14, 2014, 06:03:53 pm
Ferdinand II. and Isabella I. believed that it was a crime against god to enslave the natives. When Columbus brought American slaves to Spain, Isabella spared them and brought them back to their homeland.

Later Columbus got dismissed as the governor of the colony.
I know those Spanish were so disgusted. So disgusting they continued their exploitation and genocide of the native people.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 14, 2014, 06:11:29 pm
They did not genocide them.
Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_Burgos
The European peasants had similar rights.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuring on August 14, 2014, 06:16:03 pm
Likewise, socialism doesn't advocate, in any way, the destruction of millions of lives. Neither did the colonizations of America have that goal, but it still did.

About that law...

Quote
The poor fulfillment of the laws led to many protests and claims. The laws were so often poorly applied that they were seen as simply a legalization of the previous poor situation.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on August 14, 2014, 06:19:20 pm
They did not genocide them.
Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_Burgos
The European peasants had similar rights.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encomienda
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 14, 2014, 06:58:45 pm
They did not genocide them.
Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_Burgos
The European peasants had similar rights.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encomienda
This system was used simliar to slavery for around 30 years, then the conditions got improved. But I don't want to defend Spanish colonialists. This is long gone.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on August 14, 2014, 07:00:59 pm
They did not genocide them.
Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_Burgos
The European peasants had similar rights.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encomienda
This system was used simliar to slavery for around 30 years, then the conditions got improved.
Slavery is slavery. Whether you're given a fluffed pillow or not is irrelevant. Do you think if hitler gave the Jews some brisket with their bread and broth people would be going "well I mean they got some protein, no need to complain"
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 14, 2014, 07:12:35 pm
You Americans used it till 1863. :P
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on August 14, 2014, 07:15:41 pm
Slaves lived relatively well under slave masters because they were their property, that however doesnt condone Slavery.

This is how the South tried to condone Slavery,
"The reason you northerners are against slavery is because you are anti-negro racists, we are not racists. We think you should take care of your subjects. so we treat them nicely and we even do that on economic grounds because they are our capital."

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 14, 2014, 07:35:59 pm
Slaves lived relatively well under slave masters because they were their property, that however doesnt condone Slavery.
The problem in this short period after the beginning of the colonization of the new world was, that these Natives weren't the property of their lords, they had to be paid for their work. And this prohibited that they would be treated decent. It was forbidden to punish them but the estate owners did not care much about these laws.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on August 15, 2014, 12:43:39 am
Slaves lived relatively well under slave masters because they were their property, that however doesnt condone Slavery.
The problem in this short period after the beginning of the colonization of the new world was, that these Natives weren't the property of their lords, they had to be paid for their work. And this prohibited that they would be treated decent. It was forbidden to punish them but the estate owners did not care much about these laws.

Do you even realise that, by FSE logic, you aren't capable of producing either a valid argument or a right answer, because of your previous post about Hitler? You should see this yourself, realise you don't have anything to gain, and do yourself a favour and make a tactical withdrawel, meanwhile doing us a huge favour and not bringing your favourite leader up. Ever again.

This is no intended hostility, this is me doing you a favour.
Learn from it.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on August 15, 2014, 01:11:36 am
Slaves lived relatively well under slave masters because they were their property, that however doesnt condone Slavery.
The problem in this short period after the beginning of the colonization of the new world was, that these Natives weren't the property of their lords, they had to be paid for their work. And this prohibited that they would be treated decent. It was forbidden to punish them but the estate owners did not care much about these laws.

Do you even realise that, by FSE logic, you aren't capable of producing either a valid argument or a right answer, because of your previous post about Hitler? You should see this yourself, realise you don't have anything to gain, and do yourself a favour and make a tactical withdrawel, meanwhile doing us a huge favour and not bringing your favourite leader up. Ever again.

This is no intended hostility, this is me doing you a favour.
Learn from it.
His favorite leader can be Hitler and I don't think that was argued that much. It was mostly on the claim that socialism/communism are worse than fascism.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on August 15, 2014, 01:12:29 am
Spoiler
Slaves lived relatively well under slave masters because they were their property, that however doesnt condone Slavery.
The problem in this short period after the beginning of the colonization of the new world was, that these Natives weren't the property of their lords, they had to be paid for their work. And this prohibited that they would be treated decent. It was forbidden to punish them but the estate owners did not care much about these laws.

Do you even realise that, by FSE logic, you aren't capable of producing either a valid argument or a right answer, because of your previous post about Hitler? You should see this yourself, realise you don't have anything to gain, and do yourself a favour and make a tactical withdrawel, meanwhile doing us a huge favour and not bringing your favourite leader up. Ever again.

This is no intended hostility, this is me doing you a favour.
Learn from it.
His favorite leader can be Hitler and I don't think that was argued that much. It was mostly on the claim that socialism/communism are worse than fascism.
[close]

I Riddled him, you are fucking up my momentum.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on August 15, 2014, 01:13:43 am
Spoiler
Slaves lived relatively well under slave masters because they were their property, that however doesnt condone Slavery.
The problem in this short period after the beginning of the colonization of the new world was, that these Natives weren't the property of their lords, they had to be paid for their work. And this prohibited that they would be treated decent. It was forbidden to punish them but the estate owners did not care much about these laws.

Do you even realise that, by FSE logic, you aren't capable of producing either a valid argument or a right answer, because of your previous post about Hitler? You should see this yourself, realise you don't have anything to gain, and do yourself a favour and make a tactical withdrawel, meanwhile doing us a huge favour and not bringing your favourite leader up. Ever again.

This is no intended hostility, this is me doing you a favour.
Learn from it.
His favorite leader can be Hitler and I don't think that was argued that much. It was mostly on the claim that socialism/communism are worse than fascism.
[close]

I Riddled him, you are fucking up my momentum.
Sorry Commissar Emu. I meant no offense. Purge who you will.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on August 15, 2014, 01:17:50 am
Spoiler
Slaves lived relatively well under slave masters because they were their property, that however doesnt condone Slavery.
The problem in this short period after the beginning of the colonization of the new world was, that these Natives weren't the property of their lords, they had to be paid for their work. And this prohibited that they would be treated decent. It was forbidden to punish them but the estate owners did not care much about these laws.

Do you even realise that, by FSE logic, you aren't capable of producing either a valid argument or a right answer, because of your previous post about Hitler? You should see this yourself, realise you don't have anything to gain, and do yourself a favour and make a tactical withdrawel, meanwhile doing us a huge favour and not bringing your favourite leader up. Ever again.

This is no intended hostility, this is me doing you a favour.
Learn from it.
His favorite leader can be Hitler and I don't think that was argued that much. It was mostly on the claim that socialism/communism are worse than fascism.
[close]

I Riddled him, you are fucking up my momentum.
Sorry Commissar Emu. I meant no offense. Purge who you will.

None taken, I shall continue.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 15, 2014, 02:04:51 am
I talked about colonialism and native Americans in this post. I don't exactly know what this has to do with Hitler.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Toffee on August 15, 2014, 02:19:18 pm
Favourite all time leader= Gaz
I have to say this so I don't get demoted

If you think Jeljer will be amused by this you have another thing coming also why no #GamerkiethSwag ?
However Malakoth clrly best line Cpt EU. Dat video made me laught when I saw panos still as a Sgt.
:D
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Toffee on August 15, 2014, 02:20:08 pm
Well, my favourite leader of all time is Hitler as well and the fact that I am German may cause a much bigger flamewar than there has been a few posts ago.

But the question was what the favourite leader would be and my favourite leader is the (in my opinion) best leader. So yeah, Hitler was an an amazingly good leader.

Spoiler
And socialism/communism is much worse than fascism, btw. :P
[close]
Do you not remember this post?

Edit: Sorry for the double post btw
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on August 15, 2014, 05:04:58 pm
I talked about colonialism and native Americans in this post. I don't exactly know what this has to do with Hitler.


RRead post. You did write about hitler, and said post wssnt wuite popular
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 16, 2014, 03:10:15 am
Okay. I wrote about Hitler. Now?

Spoiler
I was wondering because you quoted the post without Hitler.
[close]
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on August 16, 2014, 11:25:21 am
There you go.

Spoiler
Well, my favourite leader of all time is Hitler as well and the fact that I am German may cause a much bigger flamewar than there has been a few posts ago.

But the question was what the favourite leader would be and my favourite leader is the (in my opinion) best leader. So yeah, Hitler was an an amazingly good leader.

Spoiler
And socialism/communism is much worse than fascism, btw. :P
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Turin Turambar on August 16, 2014, 01:27:32 pm
You quoted me two times now, but I still cannot figure out why.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Toffee on August 16, 2014, 05:18:12 pm
I believe the first time he quoted you was a mistake?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on August 16, 2014, 07:22:35 pm
I believe the first time he quoted you was a mistake?

I don't make mistakes, it is the will of the Emu
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on August 16, 2014, 07:33:45 pm
I believe the first time he quoted you was a mistake?

I don't make mistakes, it is the will of the Emu
The Peoples Will of the Emu. Don't be a tyrant now. I mean, you're a dictator. But of the bird Proleteriat
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on August 16, 2014, 07:37:26 pm
I believe the first time he quoted you was a mistake?

I don't make mistakes, it is the will of the Emu
The Peoples Will of the Emu. Don't be a tyrant now. I mean, you're a dictator. But of the bird Proleteriat

Hmm, you are right, we must employ our collective feathers.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: KL4R1N0G4MPR0S on August 16, 2014, 08:14:49 pm
I believe the first time he quoted you was a mistake?

I don't make mistakes, it is the will of the Emu
The Peoples Will of the Emu. Don't be a tyrant now. I mean, you're a dictator. But of the bird Proleteriat

Hmm, you are right, we must employ our collective feathers.

Dat political joke.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: 1te Garde_Gren_Merdic on September 07, 2014, 11:22:26 pm
Timur Lenk :)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Nilewe on November 30, 2014, 01:35:44 am
Louis Montcalm and La Fayette

Greate leader for the French Army in North America
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on November 30, 2014, 01:40:19 am
Louis Montcalm and La Fayette

Greate leader for the French Army in North America
Also leader of the French National Guard during the early days of the French Revolution and the guy who added Bourbon white to what is now the tricolor


But for leaders,

Caesar Salad
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Chosen1 on November 30, 2014, 01:51:56 am
Harry S. Truman. dropped bombs on Japs and just didn't give a fuck
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Josh Faraday on January 18, 2015, 08:25:47 pm
Harry S. Truman. dropped bombs on Japs and just didn't give a fuck
+1
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on January 18, 2015, 08:27:11 pm
Napoleon pls

U.S. Grant is also mai nigga
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Chosen1 on January 18, 2015, 08:51:29 pm
Andrew Jackson was a good president too.

(https://i.imgur.com/Dtdz0pD.jpg)

Him and Harry Truman were easily the greatest American presidents  8)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on January 18, 2015, 08:52:36 pm
Jackson was okay in some aspects. Minus a trail of tears or two
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Chosen1 on January 18, 2015, 09:04:07 pm
you snooze you lose
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on January 19, 2015, 03:14:57 pm
Emperor Norton
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Furrnox on January 19, 2015, 04:12:40 pm
Gandhi he lead a revolution without violence.

Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Betaknight on January 19, 2015, 04:33:23 pm
Napoleon, Churchill, Lincoln and Blucher
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Nicholas_PRIME on February 01, 2015, 06:30:32 am
Definitely Vercingetorix. Ceaser conquered a load of land and was unstoppable   and vercingetorix started a rebellion and almost defeated him, when i say almost its coz they ran and hid when it started to rain in the defining battle(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffr4yannickw10.wikispaces.com%2Ffile%2Fview%2FFrance_Vercingetorix.jpg%2F93348094%2FFrance_Vercingetorix.jpg&hash=d8740c7fd691a4d7f45420c84dfff659)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Nicholas_PRIME on February 01, 2015, 06:48:18 am
Horatio Nelson too
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Julianator1515 on February 01, 2015, 12:16:09 pm
Napoleon, Chamberlain, Rommel
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on February 01, 2015, 01:43:47 pm
Definitely Vercingetorix. Ceaser conquered a load of land and was unstoppable   and vercingetorix started a rebellion and almost defeated him, when i say almost its coz they ran and hid when it started to rain in the defining battle(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffr4yannickw10.wikispaces.com%2Ffile%2Fview%2FFrance_Vercingetorix.jpg%2F93348094%2FFrance_Vercingetorix.jpg&hash=d8740c7fd691a4d7f45420c84dfff659)
Meh.
He's brave, I wouldn't call him a great leader.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Furrnox on February 03, 2015, 10:25:51 am
*cough* *cough* Furrnox *cough* *cough*

In all seriousness though I have always been fascinated by the "desert fox".
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Johann on February 18, 2015, 04:34:36 pm
Alexander the Great because you cannot compare him.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on February 18, 2015, 05:03:56 pm
Alexander the Great because you cannot compare him.

He isn't the same colour as an apple.

#compared

Myth busted.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Zahari on February 20, 2015, 09:41:55 am
Polish general Żółkiewski. He conquer Moscow in 1610.Moscow was Polish for 2 years (1610-1612).
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on February 20, 2015, 06:53:37 pm
I sense a bias
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Theodin on February 20, 2015, 06:54:52 pm
I sense a bias
I'm blind
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on February 20, 2015, 06:56:33 pm
I sense a bias
I'm blind
You can just as easily smell the kiebalsa
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Theodin on February 20, 2015, 07:27:25 pm
I sense a bias
I'm blind
You can just as easily smell the kiebalsa
It's very potent you're right
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Natnat471 on February 28, 2015, 04:15:52 pm
La Fayette
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: The Mighty McLovin on May 29, 2015, 11:12:22 am
Boudica because women were less superior in that time and what the Romans did to her family was horrible, but she still fought against the Romans. Even though she got wrecked, she still caused some damage.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: The Mighty McLovin on May 29, 2015, 06:21:31 pm

8. Djengis Khan - Made the biggest empire ever in history, nuff said. (Nearly forgot this guy)

Sorry for bumping this 2/3 year old post but the biggest Empire in the history of mankind was the British Empire. British Empire having 22.63% of the earth, while the Mongol Empire had 22.29%.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on May 29, 2015, 06:28:15 pm
The result was the same

Lots of dead people fur glorious impire
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Liman von Sanders on July 07, 2015, 05:59:03 pm
Suleyman the magnificent,
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
Napoleon
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Gamboji on July 10, 2015, 01:16:56 am
Gandhi.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Physic58 on November 05, 2015, 10:12:39 am
Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un :-X
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Saxon on November 05, 2015, 06:21:50 pm
King Charles XII of Sweden.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dazzer on November 05, 2015, 07:29:34 pm
me
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Helikaon on November 07, 2015, 07:36:23 pm
I know this thread was/is dead but:

my favourite gamse are N:TW and NW. Guess who is my favourite leader :D (yes it is Napoleon)

but there are also plenty of other great leaders like Frederick the Great, Peter the Great, Alexander the Great (there is a reason why they are called the Great :P) and, although he wasn't a real leader but a great politician, Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527). I love reading his works and it's a shame that he doesn't get the attention he deserves.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Augy on November 17, 2015, 07:32:52 pm
Countless nameless, common peope whose names are forgotten.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: junedragon on November 17, 2015, 08:01:44 pm
about sums up mine
Julius Caesar
John III Sobieski
Peter the Great
Otto von Bismarck
Jozef Poniatowski
Jan Kozietulsk
Karl von Österreich
Casimir Pulaski
Isaac Brock
Paul von Hindenburg
Erich Ludendorff
Arthur Currie
Erwin Rommel
George patton
Chesty Puller
John F Kennedy
Pepper
Hugonaut
Getty
Spork
Adolf Hitler
Shadow Of Sundered Star
holy shit youre still reading these
memelord sethja
drewser
grifith
Wojtek the soldier bear
damn youre persistent
the lone wanderer
the sole survivor
ulfrick stormcloak
yer nan
[close]
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: The Rebel on November 18, 2015, 01:29:33 am
Napoleon Bonaparte
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Colonel Howe on November 18, 2015, 01:37:10 am
Napoleon Bonaparte
Complicated leader. I'd say he's one of my favorite to study and look at.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Saxon on November 18, 2015, 09:38:36 pm
Was reading up on the battles before Poltava from Voltaire's autobiography of Carolus Rex. Gnarly shit, badass cunt he is.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Redwall on November 20, 2015, 09:35:12 pm
Charlemagne. He basically set the foundation for most of medieval Europe
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Seegert on April 06, 2017, 08:02:09 pm
Alexander the Great because taking over the Persian Empire but I think he could of taken a good half of the world if he didn't die at such a young age.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Windflower on April 07, 2017, 02:11:10 am
Alexander the Great because taking over the Persian Empire but I think he could of taken a good half of the world if he didn't die at such a young age.
well he got pretty fucked up in India
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Saxon on April 07, 2017, 02:22:18 pm
Alexander the Great because taking over the Persian Empire but I think he could of taken a good half of the world if he didn't die at such a young age.
well he got pretty fucked up in India

was mainly his generals in India. And Alexander was a much better conqueror than ruler imo, still good at both however.

Hannibal used Indian elephant riders using the Punic wars, it is quoted somewhere hehe
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Garrel on April 07, 2017, 02:40:41 pm
Presides that, it kinda sucks that he died at the age of 32. :-\
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Saxon on April 07, 2017, 03:01:01 pm
Presides that, it kinda sucks that he died at the age of 32. :-\

The burning of the library makes me sad 4 dayz
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: -Nick on April 08, 2017, 12:33:01 am
Stonewall Jackson
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Windflower on April 08, 2017, 12:38:29 am
Alexander the Great because taking over the Persian Empire but I think he could of taken a good half of the world if he didn't die at such a young age.
well he got pretty fucked up in India

was mainly his generals in India. And Alexander was a much better conqueror than ruler imo, still good at both however.

Hannibal used Indian elephant riders using the Punic wars, it is quoted somewhere hehe
India was generally pretty feared for invading as mountains surrounded it, and didn't Hannibal lose most of his army walking all the way around Spain towards Rome?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Saxon on April 08, 2017, 11:35:01 pm
Alexander the Great because taking over the Persian Empire but I think he could of taken a good half of the world if he didn't die at such a young age.
well he got pretty fucked up in India

was mainly his generals in India. And Alexander was a much better conqueror than ruler imo, still good at both however.

Hannibal used Indian elephant riders using the Punic wars, it is quoted somewhere hehe
India was generally pretty feared for invading as mountains surrounded it, and didn't Hannibal lose most of his army walking all the way around Spain towards Rome?

He had like 40 or so elephants and 10,000 men from what i remember and they had to cross a fat river b4 the alps and lost some men there
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Soladn on June 03, 2017, 05:12:59 pm
same
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Matthew0808 on June 06, 2017, 01:34:51 pm
Napoleon Bonaparte is the best for 1 reason. He made an army capable of fighting Wellington in under 100 days. An impressive achievement for any leader.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: junedragon on June 06, 2017, 05:05:25 pm
imho Wellington is the most overrated commander of the Napoleonic Wars and Archduke Charles is the most underrated
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Garrel on June 06, 2017, 08:05:23 pm
Napoleon and Wellington were both great leaders.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Windflower on June 06, 2017, 09:05:24 pm
I've heard that Napoleon wasn't a great military leader and that his generals did a lot of the leading for him.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: junedragon on June 06, 2017, 11:02:02 pm
I've heard that Napoleon wasn't a great military leader and that his generals did a lot of the leading for him.

You've heard wrong tbh

Austerlitz alone was a stroke of pure military genius. He was also what I would describe as a "complete commander" - by which I mean not only was he a master of battlefield tactics, but a masterful strategist/campaigner and an inspirational leader as well. Always maneuvering into advantageous positions, dividing allied opponents attempting to join forces and routing them each in detail, encircling entire armies (case in point being the Ulm Campaign), etc.

He became almost lazy as he got older and started using more direct tactics (arguably losing some of his genius) but even in the Hundred Days days campaign he frustrated Wellington with his movements ("Napoleon has humbugged me, by God; he has gained twenty-four hours' march on me").
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Marceaux on June 06, 2017, 11:05:55 pm
I've heard that Napoleon wasn't a great military leader and that his generals did a lot of the leading for him.

You've heard wrong tbh

Austerlitz alone was a stroke of pure military genius. He was also what I would describe as a "complete commander" - by which I mean not only was he a master of battlefield tactics, but a masterful strategist/campaigner and an inspirational leader as well. Always maneuvering into advantageous positions, dividing allied opponents attempting to join forces and routing them each in detail, encircling entire armies (case in point being the Ulm Campaign), etc.

He became almost lazy as he got older and started using more direct tactics (arguably losing some of his genius) but even in the Hundred Days days campaign he frustrated Wellington with his movements ("Napoleon has humbugged me, by God; he has gained twenty-four hours' march on me").

Napoleon is truly a god for the things he accomplished. By far my favorite leader.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Windflower on June 06, 2017, 11:20:50 pm
I've heard that Napoleon wasn't a great military leader and that his generals did a lot of the leading for him.

You've heard wrong tbh

Austerlitz alone was a stroke of pure military genius. He was also what I would describe as a "complete commander" - by which I mean not only was he a master of battlefield tactics, but a masterful strategist/campaigner and an inspirational leader as well. Always maneuvering into advantageous positions, dividing allied opponents attempting to join forces and routing them each in detail, encircling entire armies (case in point being the Ulm Campaign), etc.

He became almost lazy as he got older and started using more direct tactics (arguably losing some of his genius) but even in the Hundred Days days campaign he frustrated Wellington with his movements ("Napoleon has humbugged me, by God; he has gained twenty-four hours' march on me").
oh cool

Napoleon Bonaparte is the best for 1 reason. He made an army capable of fighting Wellington in under 100 days. An impressive achievement for any leader.
Organizational skills alone don't make you a great leader
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on June 06, 2017, 11:37:08 pm
He was great strategist, a sound tactician and a good leader. But, he was also a pretty damned good politician. Then again, you don't make it beyond Colonel without being one. He made General at an impossibly early age.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: VetroG on June 06, 2017, 11:58:31 pm
Napoleon  :)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Garrel on June 07, 2017, 09:30:57 am
He was great strategist, a sound tactician and a good leader. But, he was also a pretty damned good politician. Then again, you don't make it beyond Colonel without being one. He made General at an impossibly early age.
I agree.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Nero_ on June 07, 2017, 09:37:53 am
irish
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Garrel on June 07, 2017, 09:39:10 am
He is gone now, no?
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: The Mighty McLovin on June 07, 2017, 04:28:55 pm
irish

What
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: MightyPaiN on June 07, 2017, 04:32:31 pm
Great Colonel Of 17e Pieter
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: William on June 07, 2017, 04:43:38 pm
I personally really liked Diplex because he was funny and we all really wanted to impress him so everyone was constantly GF'ing and dueling to improve for the the YT stardom.

I also really enjoyed Karth because the old school LB's we used to have with the 3eVolt were some serious affairs.. alongside Tico. I don't really think anyone I know today can match those two's demeanor and lowkey use of trash talk and banter during LB's. Great guys
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Nero_ on June 07, 2017, 04:54:26 pm
did i really turn this historical discussion into a NW related one
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: MightyPaiN on June 07, 2017, 04:55:38 pm
Yeah we did lad
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: William on June 07, 2017, 04:56:34 pm
<forgot to read OP and read 17e colonel>
<rip me>
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Duuze on June 09, 2017, 05:59:57 am
I like ww2 leaders and napoleon.
I've heard that Napoleon wasn't a great military leader and that his generals did a lot of the leading for him.

You've heard wrong tbh

Austerlitz alone was a stroke of pure military genius. He was also what I would describe as a "complete commander" - by which I mean not only was he a master of battlefield tactics, but a masterful strategist/campaigner and an inspirational leader as well. Always maneuvering into advantageous positions, dividing allied opponents attempting to join forces and routing them each in detail, encircling entire armies (case in point being the Ulm Campaign), etc.

He became almost lazy as he got older and started using more direct tactics (arguably losing some of his genius) but even in the Hundred Days days campaign he frustrated Wellington with his movements ("Napoleon has humbugged me, by God; he has gained twenty-four hours' march on me").
oh cool

Napoleon Bonaparte is the best for 1 reason. He made an army capable of fighting Wellington in under 100 days. An impressive achievement for any leader.
Organizational skills alone don't make you a great leader


Napoleon could rally the french, and "make it" to Russia.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Garrel on June 09, 2017, 01:03:50 pm
Which he tried doing, once before.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: byhector11 on June 10, 2017, 01:18:27 am
Felipe II and Isabel "The Catholic"
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Garrel on July 03, 2017, 12:58:36 am
Attila the Hun.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Sturk on July 03, 2017, 01:09:37 am
PrideOfNi ''Dezza''
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Frittentime on July 03, 2017, 02:55:15 pm
PrideOfNi ''Dezza''
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Nero_ on July 04, 2017, 11:43:05 am
My all time favourite leader, especially because of his tactical geniusness and his ability to know when to STREIF. To enforce discipline and tell people to BEHAVE. But his greatest ability and what makes him so unique, has to be his ability to AHU and all of his men know the way of AHU, this can ofcourse only be PrideOfNi, the man is the ultimate leader in every possible way, and after all, a gentleman.


Tactics
Discipline
AHU

amen
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Sturk on July 04, 2017, 12:11:51 pm
what a man
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dark_Knight on July 04, 2017, 01:41:55 pm
what a propaganda!  :o
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Hertz on July 04, 2017, 02:27:52 pm
My all time favourite leader, especially because of his tactical geniusness and his ability to know when to STREIF. To enforce discipline and tell people to BEHAVE. But his greatest ability and what makes him so unique, has to be his ability to AHU and all of his men know the way of AHU, this can ofcourse only be PrideOfNi, the man is the ultimate leader in every possible way, and after all, a gentleman.


Tactics
Discipline
AHU

amen

True Dat
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: The Predurrdurr on July 11, 2017, 05:20:16 pm
My favorite leader is Glenn he is the true Erwin Rommel of NW he managed to get the shitty USMC to tie with the best regiment in the game.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: The_Tennessean_Mt_Man on July 25, 2017, 03:36:56 am
I'm going to say Nathan Bedford Forrest. He gets a lot of unnecessary heat, from things taken out of context to historical inaccuracy (such as the founding of the KKK). Before the war he started life in a rough background, with no formal education. Helped his uncle run a business, until he worked his way to becoming a slave trader. He was known to be very kind to his slaves, even surpassing the boundary of what was considered to be how you treated a slave, since it was a norm in the South during that time period. An absolute genius in the ACW how he used his cavalry more or less as mounted infantry, using mobile warfare to defeat much large foes. Truly ahead of his time with NO prior military training. We see the tactical likes later on in WWII. Shelby Foote, once said that there were two geniuses from the American Civil War. "President Abraham Lincoln, and General Nathan Bedford Forrest." After the war he joined the Klan, but left after it started committing questionable actions against blacks. After leaving, became a civil rights activist in my home town of Memphis. A truly remarkable man. William T. Sherman later befriended him and offered him a great command if war were to break out with Spain. Here are one of my favorite speeches from him:

"Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. (Immense applause and laughter.) This day is a day that is proud to me, having occupied the position that I did for the past twelve years, and been misunderstood by your race. This is the first opportunity I have had during that time to say that I am your friend. I am here a representative of the southern people, one more slandered and maligned than any man in the nation.
I will say to you and to the colored race that men who bore arms and followed the flag of the Confederacy are, with very few exceptions, your friends. I have an opportunity of saying what I have always felt – that I am your friend, for my interests are your interests, and your interests are my interests. We were born on the same soil, breathe the same air, and live in the same land. Why, then, can we not live as brothers? I will say that when the war broke out I felt it my duty to stand by my people. When the time came I did the best I could, and I don't believe I flickered. I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe that I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to bring about peace. It has always been my motto to elevate every man- to depress none. (Applause.) I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going.
I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, that you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Use your best judgement in selecting men for office and vote as you think right.
Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. I have been in the heat of battle when colored men, asked me to protect them. I have placed myself between them and the bullets of my men, and told them they should be kept unharmed. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand." (Prolonged applause.)
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Toffee on July 25, 2017, 02:51:35 pm
He owned slaves but it's okay because he was kind to them
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: kex on July 25, 2017, 09:51:07 pm
Gaius Julius Caesar

Napoleon Bonaparte

Leonidas I

Arthur Wellesley

Alexander The Great

Kenshin Uesugi

Horatio Nelson
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: The_Tennessean_Mt_Man on July 26, 2017, 02:38:01 am
He owned slaves but it's okay because he was kind to them

I didn't say it was okay. Let's not start using modern lenses now, it was considered normal in that time period. If you are going to target slave owners, then you are including people such as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, America's founding fathers.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Toffee on July 26, 2017, 02:46:54 am
He owned slaves but it's okay because he was kind to them

I didn't say it was okay. Let's not start using modern lenses now, it was considered normal in that time period. If you are going to target slave owners, then you are including people such as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, America's founding fathers.
That makes it okay then.

But seriously that kind of makes him a dick
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: The_Tennessean_Mt_Man on July 27, 2017, 04:31:18 am
He owned slaves but it's okay because he was kind to them

I didn't say it was okay. Let's not start using modern lenses now, it was considered normal in that time period. If you are going to target slave owners, then you are including people such as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, America's founding fathers.
That makes it okay then.

But seriously that kind of makes him a dick

No it doesn't. Again, that was considered normal at those times. If you are going to call one person a "dick" then you have to call all of them a dick.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Toffee on July 27, 2017, 12:13:18 pm
Okay they're all dicks. Just cos something was normal at the time that doesn't make it okay. I mean slavery had already been outlawed in much of the world by this point anyway. You might admire his military career but don't try and make him seem like a nice guy by painting owning slaves in a good light.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Windflower on July 27, 2017, 07:14:47 pm
Okay they're all dicks. Just cos something was normal at the time that doesn't make it okay. I mean slavery had already been outlawed in much of the world by this point anyway. You might admire his military career but don't try and make him seem like a nice guy by painting owning slaves in a good light.
you're fookin daft lad
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Nero_ on July 27, 2017, 07:25:03 pm
Okay they're all dicks. Just cos something was normal at the time that doesn't make it okay. I mean slavery had already been outlawed in much of the world by this point anyway. You might admire his military career but don't try and make him seem like a nice guy by painting owning slaves in a good light.
you're fookin daft lad
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on July 27, 2017, 07:44:23 pm
Aye it a wee daft hen
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Toffee on July 27, 2017, 10:57:29 pm
You lot call me daft again I'll knock ya fuckin wee ed off ya wee fanny dingy dong prick
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Riddlez on July 28, 2017, 09:56:51 pm
Not bad
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: MightyPaiN on December 11, 2017, 08:13:24 am
Zeljko Raznatovic known as Arkan
Adolf Hitler
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Nero_ on December 11, 2017, 10:24:31 am
bait
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Fwuffy on December 11, 2017, 10:26:08 am
Zeljko Raznatovic know as Arkan
Adolf Hitler
Slobodan Milosevic
Ratko Mladic
Ceca
banned from fse
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Cazasar on December 11, 2017, 11:30:19 am
Slobodan Praljak for bis drinking capabilities
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: MightyPaiN on December 11, 2017, 12:31:49 pm
Kim jong un
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dark_Knight on December 12, 2017, 08:14:35 am
Zinedine Zidane
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Marceaux on May 10, 2018, 06:47:56 am
I've heard that Napoleon wasn't a great military leader and that his generals did a lot of the leading for him.

You've heard wrong tbh

Austerlitz alone was a stroke of pure military genius. He was also what I would describe as a "complete commander" - by which I mean not only was he a master of battlefield tactics, but a masterful strategist/campaigner and an inspirational leader as well. Always maneuvering into advantageous positions, dividing allied opponents attempting to join forces and routing them each in detail, encircling entire armies (case in point being the Ulm Campaign), etc.

He became almost lazy as he got older and started using more direct tactics (arguably losing some of his genius) but even in the Hundred Days days campaign he frustrated Wellington with his movements ("Napoleon has humbugged me, by God; he has gained twenty-four hours' march on me").

Napoleon is truly a god for the things he accomplished. By far my favorite leader.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Wursti on May 10, 2018, 11:20:55 am
I think Adolf Hitler was a great leader
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: nytek on July 21, 2018, 09:38:22 pm
I think Adolf Hitler was a great leader

No, he was not a great leader and I think history will confirm that. He was the reason why 3 million+ Germans lost their lives. Not to mention the 6 million Jews he gas to death. Hitler is the definition of a complete asshole with no sympathy for people. A complete narcissist. He was good at rhetorics and painting but it all ends there. If you knew something about Hitler as a military leader you would have known that he had no idea of what he was doing. He disregarded all military council from his generals and he was one of the main reason's why Germany lost the war. His atrocities against the civilians of Poland and Russia was unspeakable. I don't know how many innocent civilians he killed but the number is staggering. He fired some of Germany's best generals in Heinz Guderian, Eric Von Manstein and Erwin Rommel. Then he replaced them with puppets and fanatics like Walter Model and Keitel.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Toffee on July 23, 2018, 02:11:19 pm
I don’t think he was being serious mate
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: nytek on July 23, 2018, 06:52:13 pm
I don’t think he was being serious mate
Maybe he wasn't but there are people on here who legit think it.
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dark_Knight on July 25, 2018, 04:48:45 pm
Didier Deschamps
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Dekkers on July 26, 2018, 12:06:16 am
Didier Deschamps' dentist
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Zülfikar on July 26, 2018, 12:12:15 am
82e Dust
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Edwin on July 26, 2018, 12:57:08 am
I think Adolf Hitler was a great leader

That's an interesting hypothesis
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Toffee on July 26, 2018, 05:10:24 pm
Phil Jagielka
Title: Re: Favourite All Time Leader(s)
Post by: Marks on July 27, 2018, 12:49:36 pm
Woody from toy story