Flying Squirrel Entertainment

The Lounge => Historical Discussion => Historical Reenactment => Topic started by: Dordak_the_Lost on February 06, 2013, 09:38:56 pm

Title: Post your canteen
Post by: Dordak_the_Lost on February 06, 2013, 09:38:56 pm
This is kind of random but I thought this would be interesting. No matter what time period you reenact, you probably have a canteen.

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8524%2F8450671923_fd8a5b99ab_b.jpg&hash=c3b5546b63acd69e624d7d85ec26cf7d)

I'm actually surprised by how clean mine looks. It's been through a lot though.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Duuring on February 06, 2013, 11:01:05 pm
Ah! Now THIS is something I can show!
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Matthew on February 07, 2013, 01:08:24 am
I heard a weird story about a lot of canteens rusting and getting damaged while on campaign as colonels ordered their men to remove their canteen covers so that they would all look the same lol.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Landrik on February 07, 2013, 01:58:19 am
That's the most non-sensical thing I've ever heard. So it must be true. xD

My youngest brother's canteen doesn't have a cover and that thing warms up quick. Drenching the cover is a necessity to keep it cool. Also, no burning yourself, there's less noise, and no blinding friend and foe alike... so many pros to having a cover.

By the way, sweet canteen there, Dordak. I'll post my ACW, WWI, and WWII canteens soon enough.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: zac on February 08, 2013, 01:49:26 am
will post my Brit one soon , getting painted
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: DeoVindice61 on February 09, 2013, 12:13:35 am
My Frickin Canteen
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi45.tinypic.com%2Ffydenr.jpg&hash=9aa3e54c2649b67aac0cb3272c0941ed)
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    :)
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Dom13WorstNW on February 09, 2013, 06:23:58 am
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.solarfeeds.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fobama-aw-hell-naw.jpg&hash=f4ad3098945e579ebb2118314d1c6337)
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Duuring on February 18, 2013, 03:57:38 pm
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-O5c4oavGmxc/USJATMoGAcI/AAAAAAAACK8/bvuf7brPQa0/s1152/IMGP7365.JPG)

Ain't it pwetty? I'll get a new one soon, though, as this one has been bought out of need and has some flaws.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: DeoVindice61 on February 18, 2013, 11:50:13 pm
That's a damn interesting canteen duuring.....
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: zac on February 19, 2013, 02:29:34 am
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-O5c4oavGmxc/USJATMoGAcI/AAAAAAAACK8/bvuf7brPQa0/s1152/IMGP7365.JPG)

Ain't it pwetty? I'll get a new one soon, though, as this one has been bought out of need and has some flaws.

our corporal has a canteen very much like that
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: DeoVindice61 on August 17, 2016, 03:05:26 am
Dis sum nice kanteen
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/1267db46-0c5e-44e0-920a-60008811d322_1.b526836d56a406cc4b2ebe999921f73d.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)
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Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: zac on August 17, 2016, 07:29:45 am
I'll take one, but in tweed plez
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Windflower on August 17, 2016, 08:46:47 am
Do you actually drink out of your canteen is the question
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: joer5835 on August 17, 2016, 03:07:21 pm
Some top quality necroing there. I guess I best join in

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/AO9g6BV.png)
[close]
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: DeoVindice61 on August 26, 2016, 04:19:08 am
Do you actually drink out of your canteen is the question


Of course not, that would be very unsanitary of you to do.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Windflower on August 26, 2016, 04:42:04 am
Do you actually drink out of your canteen is the question


Of course not, that would be very unsanitary of you to do.
Excuse me but this doesn't look unsanitary at all

Spoiler
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-O5c4oavGmxc/USJATMoGAcI/AAAAAAAACK8/bvuf7brPQa0/s1152/IMGP7365.JPG)
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Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Duuring on August 26, 2016, 10:32:52 am
Ah, glorious farbness.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Ted on August 26, 2016, 11:57:46 am
Ah, glorious farbness.

You've called for Wolff? Wait, I'll fetch him for you...
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Olafson on August 26, 2016, 12:12:04 pm
(https://abload.de/img/13603558_260234117684inuc1.jpg)

This rusty little piece of shit is one of mine.
I bet it is very sanitary. It is made out of lead and rusts like crazy... As you can see.

But hey! Its accurate!
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Duuring on August 26, 2016, 01:31:40 pm
Stop. Using. It.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: joer5835 on August 26, 2016, 02:11:26 pm
Meh, I haven't died yet. Then again, my canteen is porcelain.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Riddlez on August 26, 2016, 02:20:20 pm
Spoiler
(https://abload.de/img/13603558_260234117684inuc1.jpg)
[close]

This rusty little piece of shit is one of mine.
I bet it is very sanitary. It is made out of lead and rusts like crazy... As you can see.

But hey! Its accurate!

Die of lead poisoning and get the 'Ultimate Reenactor' achievement
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Duuring on August 26, 2016, 07:26:24 pm
French sergeants apparantly carried around little flasks of vinegar to neutralize the rust. Vinegar in water also tastes absolutely horrible.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Olafson on August 26, 2016, 09:42:32 pm
No, that's a common misconception.

Vinegar was part of the "daily issue". Regulation said that every man would receive 47ml of vinegar. The sergeant of each group would carry to 2 canteens. One for himself with water, one with vinegar for his troops.
All of the above is the exact same you said, but here comes the difference.
Vinegar was only issued by the Generals orders and only during hot summer days. After 1797 it was only issued if there was an order from the commanding medical officers. It was not meant to keep the cantees from rusting or making it taste better, it was meant to let the water spoil slower by preventing bacteria inside the stale water to spread.

Same actually goes with wine. Wine was issued. But only on the generals orders. After 1797 it was issued to troops on forced marches, heavy working duty, on battle days and always for troops in besieged cities.
Troops in besieged cities received 230ml wine and troops on the front/in the field received 150ml wine. From 1801 on, both troops in besieged cities and troops in the field received 250ml wine.

Spoiler
(https://abload.de/img/13603558_260234117684inuc1.jpg)
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This rusty little piece of shit is one of mine.
I bet it is very sanitary. It is made out of lead and rusts like crazy... As you can see.

But hey! Its accurate!

Die of lead poisoning and get the 'Ultimate Reenactor' achievement

I actually lined it with beeswax which works pretty well. Some parts are not covered, but overall it keeps it from getting into the water. Also on a plus side, on hot days, my water tastes like beeswax which is a nice taste compared to the taste of cold water. (not)
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: joer5835 on August 26, 2016, 10:05:20 pm
I don't like the taste of water at all. Not at all. I am pretty sure beeswax or vinnegar could actually only make it better for me.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Riddlez on August 26, 2016, 10:37:11 pm
Or go fuck all with historical accuracy and put in a beverage of your choosing. The rest can't see it, anyways.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: joer5835 on August 26, 2016, 11:16:37 pm
You honestly think I haven't done so already?

Oh wait, shit my cover is blown! You all didn't hear that!
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Olafson on August 26, 2016, 11:32:17 pm
You really shouldn't put anything that has acid in a tin/lead canteen. It will make the lead poisoning even worse :P
Which means that you can not really put much in it.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Windflower on August 26, 2016, 11:37:47 pm
Well according to my knowledges, on the pH scale, laundry degerent is considered basic, so I think you can conclude that you can put laundry detergent in your canteen instead of orange juice.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: joer5835 on August 26, 2016, 11:48:45 pm
Luckily, my canteen is not metal or tin.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Riddlez on August 26, 2016, 11:53:37 pm
You really shouldn't put anything that has acid in a tin/lead canteen. It will make the lead poisoning even worse :P
Which means that you can not really put much in it.

Or decide against lead canteens...?
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Olafson on August 27, 2016, 12:37:12 am
Finding someone who makes canteens out of actual tin is hard.
Most people end up with stainless steel canteens or enamel-bottles or modern day canteens they cover with cloth or leather. Which is obviously wrong. All of it. For the french, glass bottles are also hilariously overrepresented. And you also get a whole bunch of guys with those huge 2 liter steel canteens. No. Just no. They should hold a liter, possibly even less. They did not have those huge canteens.

If you cover your canteen with beeswax from inside and only drink out of the bottle every few weeks you are not going to die from it. If you are worried about this stuff, you should see our cooking gear. For example, we are using original WW1 french cooking gear. It is made out of lead and covered with tin, but half of the tin melted away. We were stupid once and deep fried in it, the fat caught fire and small parts of the tin cover melted away... But we ate from it anyway. Lel.

Also, you see the canteen behind mine? That is actually also mine. I bought 3 of these from a tinsmith. He made them out ot proper tin, so they are actually drinkable. But I am not using mine at the moment. The lead one is nicer, because its rusty from outside and it has a slightly nicer shape. 

The thing I hate about my canteens is that I decided to use cork stoppers for all of them. Wooden stoppers are accurate, but they are a fucking pain to get in and out. Once you have them in the canteen, they just get stuck and if you want to just quickly take a sip (and take off the stopper with one hand) when not standing at attention, you are doomed, you can not do it.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: DeoVindice61 on August 27, 2016, 05:40:18 am
Or go fuck all with historical accuracy and put in a beverage of your choosing. The rest can't see it, anyways.


There was one time, I think at the 150th Resaca event, I walked past a period sutler that was serving birch beer and root beers. I just gave him my canteen and got it filled up with root beer. So that totally could happen back then too. 
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: joer5835 on August 28, 2016, 01:59:36 pm
Probably did happen. I mean, drinking rum all day was common practice in the navy those days.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Riddlez on August 28, 2016, 02:26:39 pm
Probably did happen. I mean, drinking rum all day was common practice in the navy those days.

Perhaps because of a lack of fresh water? Handing out alcohol to soldiers seems like an excellent idea.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Duuring on August 28, 2016, 06:39:16 pm
Not really. Rum was rationed, like most things. Water was quite easy to find for sea-sailing ships.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: DeoVindice61 on September 01, 2016, 03:45:56 pm
Not really. Rum was rationed, like most things. Water was quite easy to find for sea-sailing ships.


Quite easy??? You sure about that?
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Riddlez on September 01, 2016, 03:49:35 pm
Not really. Rum was rationed, like most things. Water was quite easy to find for sea-sailing ships.

Find me the closest 'easy to come by' water source in the middle of this:

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bluebird-electric.net%2Foceanography%2Focean_pictures%2Fatlantic-ocean-north-map-seabed.jpg&hash=34f758f64d0e2ea7fba8e7bbe2e7b8c9)
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Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: joer5835 on September 01, 2016, 05:23:09 pm
Unless you are on the Europe-America route (which isn't as long as people think, only 3-4 weeks of sailing), you wouldn't be sailing in the middle of the Atlantic. You'd be sailing always with the coast nearby where you could go find fresh water. It's not easy, but it's also not impossible.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Duuring on September 01, 2016, 05:52:44 pm
Unless you are on the Europe-America route (which isn't as long as people think, only 3-4 weeks of sailing), you wouldn't be sailing in the middle of the Atlantic. You'd be sailing always with the coast nearby where you could go find fresh water. It's not easy, but it's also not impossible.

This. Ships stopped frequently in harbours where they could purchase fresh water, and it was easy to find wild creeks on the coast. It was rationed, of course, but lack of water was never the issue. Lack of vitamins is what got people down.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Wolff on September 29, 2016, 08:35:44 pm
Here is mine. Sadly my number - the wonderful 77 - is still missing

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F2woa982.jpg&hash=f0164a98591ce59fcf710938f0aae061)
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Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Duuring on September 29, 2016, 08:41:26 pm
Are you sure it was actually numbered to the soldier it was issued too?
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Wolff on September 29, 2016, 09:07:03 pm
No I am not sure. i read about it somewhere and i can't give you any evidence but that's how my unit is doing it. I know your argument " no need to do it wrong if everybody else is doing it wrong" but I think in this case is no proof that the canteens weren't numbered. It even makes sence because other part of the equiptement were numbered too
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Duuring on September 29, 2016, 09:18:50 pm
Meh, truly, I get where you're coming from, groups always put pressure on people to 'look the part'. I'm debating it more out of the perspective of a historian then a re-enactor.

Apparantly canteens were ordered by the regiments themselves so it's not impossible that they were painted with something. But to me, it's just something that everybody seems to take for granted far too fast.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Wolff on September 30, 2016, 12:08:22 am
I think you re completly right, duuring. Love you  :-*
Btw does anybody know a good source for good civilian waistcoats, preferably in germany? I don't want to buy one of my units uniformly white ones, wich were never part of the uniform
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Olafson on September 30, 2016, 02:27:34 pm
There was a french supplier for waistcoats, but I lost it. Maybe Duuring still has it.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Duuring on September 30, 2016, 04:11:17 pm
Will look it up when I'm home.

Did KGL soldiers even have waistcoats? In the French army, they were specifically meant for NCO's and wearing non-regulation clothing was forbidden.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Ted on September 30, 2016, 05:04:55 pm
In the French army, they were specifically meant for NCO's and wearing non-regulation clothing was forbidden.

Then, the campaign of 1812 occured....
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Duuring on September 30, 2016, 05:33:48 pm
Maybe during the later half of that campaign, but regulations were regulations and they were enforced rather strictly.

I understand you are making a joke Ted, but excusus like 'what about 1812' or 'it's logical that they had it' are too often heard in re-enactment. I know we will never be able to fully research what these men did and did not wear, but a little more effort would sometimes be appropiate.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Blaze on September 30, 2016, 06:36:57 pm
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-O5c4oavGmxc/USJATMoGAcI/AAAAAAAACK8/bvuf7brPQa0/s1152/IMGP7365.JPG)

Ain't it pwetty? I'll get a new one soon, though, as this one has been bought out of need and has some flaws.
Those are some nice slippers.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Duuring on September 30, 2016, 07:04:15 pm
God, that canteen was farb. I even used the farb excuses to legitimize its purchase. I have improved my ways, I can assure you.

I never even used those slippers and I have no idea where they are now.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Cara on September 30, 2016, 07:30:27 pm
Maybe during the later half of that campaign, but regulations were regulations and they were enforced rather strictly.

I understand you are making a joke Ted, but excusus like 'what about 1812' or 'it's logical that they had it' are too often heard in re-enactment. I know we will never be able to fully research what these men did and did not wear, but a little more effort would sometimes be appropiate.

Sure. And it's a common historical mistake Ted to think that 1812 ruined the military regulations... Don't forget a lot of french Corps were not in Russia and even had brand new uniforms with the Bardin regulation reform, precisely in 1812.


About the french supplier on civilian waistcoast, this one maybe ? http://fr.empirecostume.com/costumes-civils-c144.htm
I bought this one last year when I was a bandit in the Saint-Amans reenactement ( http://fr.empirecostume.com/gilet-en-coton-c144-a1090.htm)
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Ted on October 01, 2016, 08:29:43 am
Maybe during the later half of that campaign, but regulations were regulations and they were enforced rather strictly.

I understand you are making a joke Ted, but excusus like 'what about 1812' or 'it's logical that they had it' are too often heard in re-enactment. I know we will never be able to fully research what these men did and did not wear, but a little more effort would sometimes be appropiate.

Sure. And it's a common historical mistake Ted to think that 1812 ruined the military regulations... Don't forget a lot of french Corps were not in Russia and even had brand new uniforms with the Bardin regulation reform, precisely in 1812.


About the french supplier on civilian waistcoast, this one maybe ? http://fr.empirecostume.com/costumes-civils-c144.htm
I bought this one last year when I was a bandit in the Saint-Amans reenactement ( http://fr.empirecostume.com/gilet-en-coton-c144-a1090.htm)

I feel the need to point out that my comment was ironically pointing at all these people who ignore regulations for reasons like "Well there was a time when noone cared about regulations in 1812....".
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: zac on October 01, 2016, 10:45:22 am
me left mein canteen in gun safe with musket and now it icky :'( ... (Also always keep the wooden canteens with atleast a little bit of water in them!!!)
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F10zd6s2.jpg&hash=ceca21c2b32a30ef016341a8d0c5aa96)

These are made locally out here, and as I use it for two different impressions I leave it unmarked. (NSW Corps, 42nd) ...needs a repaint and a clean....its been colonially modified lol

Cant be bothered trying to find my WW2 canteen..and tbh my French one resembles Olafs one too much :') ...scrub scrub
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Wolff on October 02, 2016, 08:17:53 pm
the waistcoat wasn't part of the uniform. But it was neither forbidden to wear waistcoats. There are no information about what the soldiers wore under their uniform in our bataillon. It is likely that the men got the white campjackets but we don't know the colour of the facings if they even had that jackets. So some guys of us got that camp jackets by themselves from a sutler in england with green facings wich might be correct. But the I think the cut isn't correct so I won't buy one and first get a waistcoat
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: joer5835 on October 09, 2016, 07:41:13 pm
I feel the need to point out that my comment was ironically pointing at all these people who ignore regulations for reasons like "Well there was a time when noone cared about regulations in 1812....".

A lot of that arguement from reenactors also tends to come from ignorance. Whenever we can't find the actual regulations text and orders or only part of it, we tend to go with the 'oh they probably weren't very strict' arguement automatically to justify us possibly doing it wrong.

Without going into details, an example of this is my own unit. There are no drawings of our actual uniforms and equipment and only some vague descriptions. Because of this, there's still debate whether our bicornes were worn sideways or fore-and-aft. And automatically, if you don't have any source (or vague ones) on what it is, you tend to say 'oh, but regulations and uniformity weren't that strict' as a sort of way to justify that you might be doing it wrong.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Olafson on October 09, 2016, 10:04:13 pm
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.napoleon-online.de%2FBilder%2FSuhr_Tafel130.jpg&hash=f50d6d472b37f59a697968cf144cf8aa)

Then why not base it on a time where you actually have proper references for? Like ya know, this drawing. Which is great.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: joer5835 on October 10, 2016, 04:59:18 pm
Spoiler
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/s960x960/14310441_1410418432319050_2433157932633146558_o.jpg)
[close]

The 1810 impression is something that we have recently decided to do on the side as well. But to truly answer your question: going for the 1797 uniform was a decision made more than 10 years ago by people of who 90% of em are no longer doing reenactment. At this point, we are too comitted to it. And I'll also clarify, it's not that we know nothing about the 1797 uniform. We have complete written descriptions of the uniform, just not any visual impressions.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: Duuring on October 10, 2016, 05:32:51 pm
It's not an 1810 impression though. The Marines-batallions were formed in 1806 'To last until the end of the campaign' and were the third batallions of the 2nd, 3rd, 7th and 8th Regiment. They were probably sent home in 1807 or 1808 because the 7th and 8th regiment, are given as only consisting of two batallions in early 1809.

That's not to say that the marines didn't exist anymore in 1810, but why call them 1810? Why not call them 1806-10, or 1807? To me, it feels like this entire '1810' impression was made solely to legitimize the incoorperation of the Marines into the Re-enactment Bylandt Brigade - which, either way, doesn't make a lot of sense from a historic perspective and seems entirely driven by re-enactment politics and the wishes of a few people. Historical arguments take the backseat, only used when it favours those wishes and ignored when it doesn't.

I should probably give myself a punishment for off-topic posting by now. Hell, if you showed this to any Dutch re-enactor that knows me he would probably respond 'oh well, Casper be bitching again', which is undoubtly true, but I'm not just bitching for the bitching. There's just a lot of bullshit in re-enactment that everybody seems to know of yet refuses to publically acknowledge. Anyway, time to make a new thread for generic Re-enactment discussion.
Title: Re: Post your canteen
Post by: zac on October 11, 2016, 09:14:16 am
Its ok Duuring <3 haha...kinda what you do :P (Taleworlds... ;) )