Flying Squirrel Entertainment

Mount & Blade Warband: Napoleonic Wars => Events: EU => Community => Regimental Groupfighting League => Topic started by: Tardet on May 05, 2020, 10:47:57 pm

Title: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Tardet on May 05, 2020, 10:47:57 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/8Jd7Zqv.png)



(https://picresize.com/images/rsz_20479880499500012_suggestions.png)



If you happen to have a question or a suggestion, please use this thread.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Rikkert on May 05, 2020, 10:55:29 pm
ban gi
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Vegi. on May 05, 2020, 10:56:53 pm
ban gi
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Kore on May 06, 2020, 12:26:54 am
can you introduce a 4-month roster lock rule
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Rikkert on May 06, 2020, 12:59:52 am
Rosters shall remain the same as last years RGL. Then we shall roleplay the matches whilst holding hands and give 15th the trophy. No drama, no invites, TOXICITYZERO, and only happy thoughts : )
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Golden. on May 06, 2020, 01:01:39 am
Rosters shall remain the same as last years RGL. Then we shall roleplay the matches whilst holding hands and give 15th the trophy. No drama, no invites, TOXICITYZERO, and only happy thoughts : )
Nah lets take it back to the 66th melee stack more fun for me
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Snowwi on May 07, 2020, 01:25:06 pm
ban Vegi
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: RUS_Flusha90 on May 07, 2020, 02:07:38 pm
me very funny that says this dog , but even me more funnier that tzo invite cant win English garbage  in 15th on mid when I always outplay his in duels this is sad guys  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Gi on May 07, 2020, 02:09:04 pm
me very funny that says this dog , but even me more funnier that tzo invite cant win English garbage  in 15th on mid when I always outplay his in duels this is sad guys  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
woah
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: MarxeiL on May 07, 2020, 02:11:24 pm
i suggest u to delete dis
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Tardet on May 07, 2020, 02:12:35 pm
It appears some of you seems to have mistaken the thread title for something along the line of 'banter thread'. Please keep the space free for real suggestion and questions, tyvm.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Tardet on May 08, 2020, 11:09:33 am
The following rule is a major change compared to past seasons and I would very much like to have as much feedback on that as possible, from anyone really. For now, such a rule is on 'hold', it very well could not stay if it doesn't get the expected support from the community. We want to try and be innovative where we can and where we feel it's worth it but not to the cost of potentially ruining a format which has so far proven excellent.

Quote
§4 (2) For every match, a special defensive or offensive bonus can be achieved. The defensive bonus can be achieved in losing by a difference of 3 or fewer rounds and gives you 1 extra point. The offensive bonus can be achieved in winning by a difference of 10 rounds or more and gives you 1 extra point.

The reasoning behind adding this is pretty much trying to encourage competitiveness to the greatest extent by making sure regiments give their 100% best in as many situations as possible. In every match, you will have an opportunity to either deny your opponent the bonus point if you try hard enough (6 rounds is hard yet achievable for many regiments against stronger opponents) meaning we want to reward a mindset where you aim higher than what you normally would, for a small achievement which could pay dividends in the long run. It works both ways obviously and for the regiments capable to play for the offensive bonus in some matches, it will also be about making sure you don't let sloppy rounds espace at the end of the match, where you nearing the finish line.

As for every big innovation, there will be people who dislike it because they are afraid of change and would literally prefer keeping the exact same system for decades if it means avoiding taking the slightest of risk. These people I call them unreasonable, simple as that. On the other hand, I have already exchanged with other members of the community I highly respect the opinion of and been given legitimate reasons to worry how about such a system could turn out in the end. I will let such people explain their view as they will explain it better than I can, so that whatever option we go for, it's after an informed and constructive discussion.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: pieter on May 08, 2020, 11:15:57 am
''For every match, a special defensive or offensive bonus can be achieved. The defensive bonus can be achieved in losing by a difference of 3 or fewer rounds and gives you 1 extra point. The offensive bonus can be achieved in winning by a difference of 10 rounds or more and gives you 1 extra point.''

I get you want to bring a unique format but RGL always has been a unique format on its own.

I might be old school with this but a win is a win, if you lose you lose and if you draw you draw. so either 3 points, 0 points or 1 point.

This is going to make for a very stupid outcome where a final could have already been determined due to a regiment having won most of their matches in a offensive bonus matter and an other regiment that has won as well all of their matches up till now but not in the offensive bonus matter being behind several points where even winning would mean they would be behind in points.

The RGL format was already updated in the recent years with the better addition of a Ft15 instead of the Bo20, this way people were already more motivated to play to the bitter end instead of after losing the 11th point having already lost the match and their for the 3 points.

I feel the negatives out weigh the positives on this one for me personally and Vegi.

Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Vegi. on May 08, 2020, 11:33:54 am
I dont think its a good rule, because then it will just look like RGT where the only best can play of our regiment.

Each regiment have to tryhard every match to get that extra point. I prefer letting other people play, so they can also feel the experience of RGL, instead of only the utter best of the regiment.
RGL is supposed to be fun too not only the tryhard aspect.

I dont want to dissapoint half of my roster that they barely can play, since we have to manage to get that extra point against 'weaker regiments'
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: maskmanmarks on May 08, 2020, 11:40:13 am
I dont think its a good rule, because then it will just look like RGT where the only best can play of our regiment.

Each regiment have to tryhard every match to get that extra point. I prefer letting other people play, so they can also feel the experience of RGL, instead of only the utter best of the regiment.
RGL is supposed to be fun too not only the tryhard aspect.

I dont want to dissapoint half of my roster that they barely can play, since we have to manage to get that extra point against 'weaker regiments'

+1

Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Tardet on May 08, 2020, 12:01:49 pm
So far, the major issues with such a system I have outlined taking inputs both on these threads and through private convos:

- It works well in Rugby leagues (at least in France) because the winner is not determined solely at the end of the league. The regular season (where the defensive and offensive points are in place) only serves to rank 6 teams which then go to a playoff and the winner of the playoff is the actual league champion. Only in that system, the defensive and offensive bonus feel like they actually bring more competition to the whole event without punishing certain teams too much.

- It could potentially ruin a regiment's chance to win either league based on the fact you could defeat a regiment thanks to your team stepping-up at the right moment but since you did not steam-roll some other matches as they did, you end-up behind them in the final ranking, which seems hardly fair.

- It basically makes it impossible to have any proper form of turn-over and involve the weakest part of your line-up because you always play to avoid dropping a single round, meaning you essentially signed-up and involved people whose role will consist in being there in case some people drop out and there is nobody better to replace them. It seems hard to justify such a mindset in a non-professional game.

So yeah, looking at it from that perspective, like Pieter mentioned the negatives largly outweigh the positive, can't argue against that.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Rikkert on May 08, 2020, 12:30:53 pm
It's a cool idea but I'd rather stick with the old system. I think the matter of how many rounds we lose against a weaker regiment (With all due respect) should not have that big of an impact on the eventual end scores. Winning any league in this game is about stepping up at the right moments in the big matches. It's not about how hard you can stomp the weaker opponents.
Furthermore, single rounds can also be very random. The eventual winner of a match is normally decided by which team is better. But whether that winning team loses 3 or 7 rounds is not necessarily due to their skill difference. 15-0 is as much of a one way stomp as 15-7 imo
Now maybe if a match gets up to 14-15 then you could possibly allow the losing team to get some extra points because of how close the match was.  The problem then is, where do you draw that line? 13-15? 12-15?
As you also said yourself, regiments want to allow their weaker players to play too. I don't want to have to get the tryhard lineup for every match, and have the same people sitting spec every match. They are as much part of the regiment as I am.
I'd prefer to stick with the original scoring system.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Kore on May 08, 2020, 01:02:09 pm
Make the minimum roster 20 so the 5 poor specs can play!
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: TheRealHunter on May 08, 2020, 01:55:07 pm
I can just agree with Rikkert, Vegi and Pieter.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Golden. on May 08, 2020, 03:22:24 pm
Maybe you should make a cool rule for a 14-14 round rather than just sudden death, its too crippling when the chokers on left flank all die  ;D
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Kore on May 08, 2020, 04:14:27 pm
Maybe you should make a cool rule for a 14-14 round rather than just sudden death, its too crippling when the chokers on left flank all die  ;D

if it's 14-14 make it so to win a team has to have a 2 round advantage (15-13, 16-14, 17-15 etc., maybe up to 25 or something in case it drags for too long)
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: DarkTemplar on May 10, 2020, 12:10:12 am
I think this rule is really great

As regiments who don't give up and try to get as many rounds as possible, are rewarded, or the regiment who thinks this is won with a score by 13-2, and loose more rounds because of not concentrating in the end, is not rewarded with a point extra.

You still get 3 points for a win, even with 15-7, so it won't change that much in the end
And when you loose 15-12 your are at least rewarded with a point, for a close match

about tryhard teams.
Honestly, I don't think most regiments will have more then 1 close match, and one stomp against an enemy (beside 15th and 92nd)
So I don't think this will change much about the tryhard teams :D

So I'm pretty sure it will equal itself.
And if not, it's even more interesting to have an addition to calculate with

Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: StockholmDE on May 10, 2020, 11:15:42 am
I think this rule is really great

As regiments who don't give up and try to get as many rounds as possible, are rewarded, or the regiment who thinks this is won with a score by 13-2, and loose more rounds because of not concentrating in the end, is not rewarded with a point extra.

You still get 3 points for a win, even with 15-7, so it won't change that much in the end
And when you loose 15-12 your are at least rewarded with a point, for a close match

about tryhard teams.
Honestly, I don't think most regiments will have more then 1 close match, and one stomp against an enemy (beside 15th and 92nd)
So I don't think this will change much about the tryhard teams :D

So I'm pretty sure it will equal itself.
And if not, it's even more interesting to have an addition to calculate with
I personally dont like the idea. As Templar said it would be another thing to calculate with, but exactly that would be stupid. Making a possible decididng Match none sense cause you never get the offensive bonus just cause you allow everybody in the Roster to play.
For 92nd it would mean that we probably only have 20 players to play in the RGL with another 20 players sitting disapointed in spec, hoping for days were nobody can attend.
Apart from that basically every Match would be played with the Minimum attendance of 15(12).
If you wanna add something new I would agree with Golden or Kore. Maybe make it you have to win with at least 2 (15-13, 16-14, 20-18). Or another idea would be to for example make it BO30 with the possibility of a 15-15 draw,  but as long as one team has 16 rounds, the match is finished (I think in Darts such a format is used)
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Vegi. on May 10, 2020, 12:10:46 pm
just use the old format ffs.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Tigere on May 10, 2020, 12:23:02 pm
I think this rule is really great

As regiments who don't give up and try to get as many rounds as possible, are rewarded, or the regiment who thinks this is won with a score by 13-2, and loose more rounds because of not concentrating in the end, is not rewarded with a point extra.

You still get 3 points for a win, even with 15-7, so it won't change that much in the end
And when you loose 15-12 your are at least rewarded with a point, for a close match

about tryhard teams.
Honestly, I don't think most regiments will have more then 1 close match, and one stomp against an enemy (beside 15th and 92nd)
So I don't think this will change much about the tryhard teams :D

So I'm pretty sure it will equal itself.
And if not, it's even more interesting to have an addition to calculate with
I personally dont like the idea. As Templar said it would be another thing to calculate with, but exactly that would be stupid. Making a possible decididng Match none sense cause you never get the offensive bonus just cause you allow everybody in the Roster to play.
For 92nd it would mean that we probably only have 20 players to play in the RGL with another 20 players sitting disapointed in spec, hoping for days were nobody can attend.
Apart from that basically every Match would be played with the Minimum attendance of 15(12).
If you wanna add something new I would agree with Golden or Kore. Maybe make it you have to win with at least 2 (15-13, 16-14, 20-18). Or another idea would be to for example make it BO30 with the possibility of a 15-15 draw,  but as long as one team has 16 rounds, the match is finished (I think in Darts such a format is used)
Fun fact: The Darts premier league is the only event which uses a bo format

But tbh I think we should stick to the usual ft15 format, but maybe with the addition Kore already mentioned
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Nock on May 10, 2020, 12:42:59 pm
But tbh I think we should stick to the usual ft15 format, but maybe with the addition Kore already mentioned
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Rikkert on May 10, 2020, 01:04:34 pm
I mean, we had that "2 rounds to win rule" with M league 2, which was a 6v6 format (if I remember correctly). I like the fact that a comeback is always possible, but I feel like it could make for some marathonesque groupfights under a 15v15+ format.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Wursti on May 10, 2020, 01:06:09 pm
i like that 2 rounds difference thingy and lets be honest 15th wont have that problem except vs 92nd maybe @Rikkert
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Rikkert on May 10, 2020, 01:08:36 pm
i like that 2 rounds difference thingy and lets be honest 15th wont have that problem except vs 92nd maybe @Rikkert
Well yeah I'm not just advocating for 15th here, am I.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Vegi. on May 10, 2020, 01:10:40 pm
man ft15
Who gets 15 win! Nothing else!
No point system! Only win gets 3! Lose 0!
Dont make things retarded and special!
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: StockholmDE on May 10, 2020, 01:23:35 pm
man ft15
Who gets 15 win! Nothing else!
No point system! Only win gets 3! Lose 0!
Dont make things retarded and special!
You got me with the depth of your arguments.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Vegi. on May 10, 2020, 01:29:36 pm
man ft15
Who gets 15 win! Nothing else!
No point system! Only win gets 3! Lose 0!
Dont make things retarded and special!
You got me with the depth of your arguments.
I'm not essay writer Tardet Stockholm!
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: MarxeiL on May 10, 2020, 02:08:28 pm
I personally think that it is a cool addition to the league. Both of rules though, 2 rounds difference is hot as well. But we had overtimes in M. League S2 @Rikkert, not this rule if I remember properly. That DDB vs Snappers match was a really tense fight lol.

2 rounds difference we had in TGL hosted by Spoons and it was really good.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Golden. on May 10, 2020, 03:48:32 pm
2 rounds difference with a point cap so it can't get crazy long is by far the best rule to add
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Barro112 on May 10, 2020, 03:55:21 pm
2 rounds difference with a point cap so it can't get crazy long is by far the best rule to add
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Kore on May 10, 2020, 05:42:52 pm
yes
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Tardet on May 10, 2020, 05:58:39 pm
2 rounds difference with a point cap so it can't get crazy long is by far the best rule to add

I like that idea tbh, it's very similar to tennis OT and could add a fun component without delaying matches too much. Will discuss it with the other admins.

Also, it's very clear that the bonus/offensive rule will be removed, it makes sense in some particular formats and the RGL isn't one of them.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Vegi. on May 10, 2020, 05:59:31 pm
2 rounds difference with a point cap so it can't get crazy long is by far the best rule to add

I like that idea tbh, it's very similar to tennis OT and could add a fun component without delaying matches too much. Will discuss it with the other admins.

Also, it's very clear that the bonus/offensive rule will be removed, it makes sense in some particular formats and the RGL isn't one of them.
ty host
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: pieter on May 10, 2020, 06:57:40 pm
Can we make it that if it’s a two point difference thing the additional 2 points have to be one on two different games, one being holdfast and the other prime and load, if that is a draw we have to jump on a good game of risk hardcore rules
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: MarxeiL on May 10, 2020, 07:42:05 pm
Why removing a rule which can add more interest in playing a league :/ Just add something like a tie breaker so there won't be things like mentioned above...
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Tardet on May 10, 2020, 07:53:26 pm
Why removing a rule which can add more interest in playing a league :/ Just add something like a tie breaker so there won't be things like mentioned above...

Just read the points people made about it beforehand, it's a good idea but it has way too many negatives simply not making it worth the add.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Smylie on May 23, 2020, 11:46:10 pm
Hi quick suggestion, is it just me that thinks a play offs with the top 4 teams would be cool? So seed 1 plays seed 4, seed 2 plays seed 3. I feel as if that will make it so that a fluke match or something doesn’t affect the chances of winning.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Tardet on May 25, 2020, 05:27:50 am
There are several reasons why we didn't go with a playoff stage in the first instance but one of the main reason was that the tournament is already long-enough so that we don't want to add another two extra weeks where the most important matches could very-well not be played with the best line-ups due to holidays coming into full effect.

I'm not saying the idea is bad, but that's a risk I'm not willing to take. We saw how it turned out last RGL season.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Kulouš on May 25, 2020, 09:30:39 am
the idea is bad
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Rikkert on May 25, 2020, 10:09:18 am
RELEASE MATCHWEEKS ONE WEEK AHEAD SO I CAN FUCKING PLAN GFs PROPERLY

AAAAAAAAaaaaAaaaAaaaaAAAAAAA

Sorry toxicité zeró
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Tardet on May 25, 2020, 10:29:05 am
RELEASE MATCHWEEKS ONE WEEK AHEAD SO I CAN FUCKING PLAN GFs PROPERLY

AAAAAAAAaaaaAaaaAaaaaAAAAAAA

Sorry toxicité zeró

Not for now. We will, however, try to release each upcoming matchweek on Saturday morning, instead of Sunday evening, to give you more time to schedule ahead and organise stuff outside of your regiments.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: DayBoul on May 26, 2020, 12:10:39 am
pls change the map back to the original one there was literally nothing wrong with it and this one makes it feel like im playing with night-time screen mode on because of its disgusting textures
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Shadey on May 26, 2020, 01:12:40 am
pls change the map back to the original one there was literally nothing wrong with it and this one makes it feel like im playing with night-time screen mode on because of its disgusting textures
All of the RGL servers have the 2016 version of the map, and it can be used if both regiments agree on it :)
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Henri on May 31, 2020, 05:29:00 am
Seems in the b division and speaking to a few regimental leaders in that division, they bring the bare minimum of 12 to the RGL match doesn't exactly seem a "regimental" Tournament if your regiment doesn't exactly turn up properly.
Not sure why the limit was reduced from 15.
Title: Re: [RGL7] Suggestions & Questions
Post by: Shadey on May 31, 2020, 05:40:53 am
Seems in the b division and speaking to a few regimental leaders in that division, they bring the bare minimum of 12 to the RGL match doesn't exactly seem a "regimental" Tournament if your regiment doesn't exactly turn up probably.
Not sure why the limit was reduced from 15.
You have to remember that a fair few of the regiments in division B aren't exactly considered to be competitive regiments, and if they are, they are in most cases fairly new to it. This usually leads to a low interest in comp events, meaning there's a fair few regiments that will struggle to consistently bring 15 men. The difference in minimum attendance is however still only a minimum, and you'll find that the regiments that do only bring 12 are doing it because they simply can't bring any more than that, not because they want to abuse the rules.