Flying Squirrel Entertainment
Mount & Blade Warband: Napoleonic Wars => Community => Topic started by: McPero on April 02, 2019, 08:28:58 pm
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Some information is outdated as some changes have been made, but I can't be bothered to fix them.
On the 31st of March The Tournament Organisational Group (https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=41340.0) thread has been posted on FSE forums. It is a group of 4 Head Organisers, organisers, referees, mappers, graphic designers and server providers who are all listed on their thread, but in addition to that they have also team captains which are not listed. Its goal is to prevent spam of low quality tournaments in the community and instead have well timed and well organised tournaments. I think this is a good idea and that spam of shit tournaments is a problem, but I have been sceptical of this group ever since I've heard it exists.
Eventually as I wanted to host a tournament I find out that things are even more dire than I thought they are. As I would acquire more information on TOG meanwhile negotiating with them when I simply wanted to borrow a server.
Here are my points to what is wrong with TOG:
1. It is a cartel group trying to maintain monopoly over hosting tournaments:
What I do not agree with is how this group operates. Something that you will not find on their thread is that everyone associated with this group (names you can find on their thread plus team captains, apparently 10 of them) is automatically forced to boycott any tournament organised outside of TOG. That would cause the tournament to have a really low attendance and would not be considered a community competitive tournament by the TOG. That could cause split of the community one side saying TOG is actual representation of the best community has and others saying that host outside of TOG are. Kind of like in middle ages when half of the time two people claimed to be king of the same Kingdom. Even though it might currently seem TOG with 10 team captains and others associated with the group represent the community what they claim too and think they are leaders of the community they clearly aren't. They might be majority of the competitive scene but even then am I supposed to believe every member of the each team was on board and fully understood what this cartel is? I don't think anyone should have the audacity to think they can monopolise tournament hosting in a community. When one of the head organisers (who's name is written first on the list and that has posted the thread btw) is a forum moderator who has been known for being power hungry at least in the past and when thread says nothing of recruitment of the team captains and boycotting it comes out really shady. And I can with doubt say this is a cartel even though not everyone involved with it might be aware of it. Voluble, Herishey if you wouldn't mind sharing our steam conversations on the forum as evidence for boycotting thingy that is conveniently missing from TOG thread, that would be great. Else there are other means for someone to find the truth. pm me lul
2. It seriously hinders the creativity of tournaments:
You might think just join them 4Head, you get everything you need, its so easy. To host a tournament under TOG you must take their map, their server, their admins, their rules and you are also given exact date and time when the tournament will take place. I personally was able to negotiate the date because captains agreed on a different date, map and some changes in rules but I am not so sure everyone else would be so lucky. And about the format of the tournament as far as I understand 4 head organisers propose a few tournament types and captains vote on what they want, I believe it is possible that head organisers deny your tournament idea without a vote from the team captains. This means tournaments lose any kind of creativity outside of minds of head organisers. Sometimes you can't know if something is a bad idea until you try it. First groupfighting tournament, NWEC were made as an experiment by Hekko, nobody was sure that it was a great idea, my point here being is head organisers nor team captains know what is a good idea and what is a bad idea for a tournament.
3. It makes it harder for community members to join the competitive scene and makes competitive itself stale:
Group is a few days old and it has 10 team captains signed. Which means it is likely more captains might want to join TOG. Eventually making it 16 which is team cap for all the TOG tournaments. Firstly team cap is beyond stupid. Nobody will care if you came 10th or 7th, you didn't win so having brackets with numbers of teams that aren't 2^n n€N (sorry disease) is completely okay. Recent tournaments have been 16 teams cap and always full. That clearly implies there is more teams willing to play than 16. So how does one join a tournament when there is 16 captains signing up within 10 minutes of a thread being posted. And these captains also won't be willing to take players in their team that they don't like or think are bad. With pretty much constantly same team captains you get same teams competing in 2 tournaments a month hosted by TOG. Sounds pretty boring to me.
So what do I want them to do?
I want them to change the way they operate in order to achieve their goal. I like connecting of organisers, mappers, referees and graphic designers in order to help each other. But I want them to drop boycotting tournaments hosted outside of TOG and recruitment of team captains. Instead when tournament is hosted they can post on the thread and offer help to the person hosting. Even if they go on with this boycotting cartel they can't completely stop other tournaments, there will be people who won't know about TOG and host tournaments and won't be willing to cooperate with TOG, so you can never fully stop spam of bad tournaments, you can just make them worse by them having low attendance and being kind of irrelevant. So boycotting will decrease them amount of those but so would just offering help and cooperation without blackmailing to boycott. Which method is more successful is debatable. Maybe a example of positive reinforcement being more successful than negative reinforcement is drugs. In Portugal drugs were legalized and drug users were considered patients that needed help instead of being criminals and the drug use has halved, meanwhile we can all see how well sending military in the streets works in South and Middle America.
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I think this thread needs to be ignored
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vol prefers not to speak
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Where is our NW William Wallace????
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Poll should really be "should TOG boicott tournaments" in the first place. Criticism is always welcome, I already expressed how their idea is good but hasnt been well aimed (otherwise we wouldnt even have these points raised up)
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If all groupfighting captains are on board, then what is the problem???
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(https://media1.tenor.com/images/8a4a99d3bd67ba8d9a025c36edf4a624/tenor.gif?itemid=6220235)
Nice meme btw good effort :)
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ok
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If all groupfighting captains are on board, then what is the problem???
Because McPero from year 934AD who has teleported into modern day says so
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I already spoke to both you and Chicken yesterday and eventually came to the conclusion with him that as I said to you both we'd be willing to let you use your own everything except for certain rules, referee's and a date (within a week) so that it sticks to the same schedule. In terms of forcing upon you a map as I said we just want to see your map first so that we can see it's reasonable and not too large, too small or anything like that as we had a lot of complaints about this over the last year.
We said nothing on the thread about the team captains or anything like that because it wasn't needed. Of course before we do anything like this we'd consult team captains first. If they didn't want it then we wouldn't have done it or been able to make the idea successful so there was no need to put it on the thread as they're not part of the actual group that host and maintain the tournaments. They simply vote on which tournaments they'd like to see each month (so in terms of limiting creativity that's not really true since captains can vote for whatever tournament they want each month).
The issue with the discussion I had with you McPero is you weren't willing to negotiate you wanted everything to be yours and wouldn't let us help at all, as I concluded in my conversation last night with Chicken. Before we even made this group it was discussed openly on two different FSE posts so it was hardly private and we also had a meeting with around 30-40 people on TS, not all of which are involved directly or are even team captains where we outlined everything including boycotts so again this was never a secret nor was it hidden, private or even shady like you are implying.
In regards to the point about team caps as well that's just pure shit and shows how inactive and unaware you are of the community currently. We've never had backup teams or anything like that for when teams don't show up because we literally struggle to get 16 teams and in quite a few recent tournaments have had less, in some cases even as few as 8. As well you say it makes it harder for players to get into competitive that's not true at all as 90% of players at the moment that have played in tournaments or regiments over the last year that want to partake in tournaments are already in a team and if they wish to play in tournaments they can still reach out to teams if they wish to join. There are teams that aren't great and teams that are very good still in the community so in reality again that point is pure shit.
In regards to removing the boycotting rule as I discussed with you and Chicken it's impossible to stop tournament spam unless we have this in place so it defeats the point of the entire group. All the team cpts we spoke to and players apart from essentially you and Chicken so far have agreed that the boycotting is fine so again it's not like we have kept this hidden.
EDIT: Tbh I already answered all of these points between you and Chicken yesterday so I don't see why you needed me to answer them again for you.
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agree
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+1 Herishey
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Also I'd just like to point out without having voters visible it's impossible to see whether the votes are genuine or from people that even play the game anymore. For all we know they could be 2nd accounts or old friends you've simply asked to vote for you. ;D
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I voted No, just as a massive meme.
Also Chicken if you agree with this you are not my community rep.
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NA>EU lmao
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Also I'd just like to point out without having voters visible it's impossible to see whether the votes are genuine or from people that even play the game anymore. For all we know they could be 2nd accounts or old friends you've simply asked to vote for you. ;D
I voted no.
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Also I'd just like to point out without having voters visible it's impossible to see whether the votes are genuine or from people that even play the game anymore. For all we know they could be 2nd accounts or old friends you've simply asked to vote for you. ;D
Can confirm i got lots of people to vote no for bants :)
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The issue with the discussion I had with you McPero is you weren't willing to negotiate you wanted everything to be yours and wouldn't let us help at all, as I concluded in my conversation last night with Chicken. Before we even made this group it was discussed openly on two different FSE posts so it was hardly private and we also had a meeting with around 30-40 people on TS, not all of which are involved directly or are even team captains where we outlined everything including boycotts so again this was never a secret nor was it hidden, private or even shady like you are implying.
I don't need to negotiate with you about anything. I would have gladly taken 2 or 3 referees but I won't when I am forced to. Tournament boycotting is not on your forum thread and not hidden at the same time, didn't know you were a quantum physicist Herishey. If you are really not hiding anything why am I not allowed to publish my discussion with Voluble and Herishey. Really not shady I must say.
In regards to the point about team caps as well that's just pure shit and shows how inactive and unaware you are of the community currently. We've never had backup teams or anything like that for when teams don't show up because we literally struggle to get 16 teams and in quite a few recent tournaments have had less, in some cases even as few as 8. As well you say it makes it harder for players to get into competitive that's not true at all as 90% of players at the moment that have played in tournaments or regiments over the last year that want to partake in tournaments are already in a team and if they wish to play in tournaments they can still reach out to teams if they wish to join. There are teams that aren't great and teams that are very good still in the community so in reality again that point is pure shit.
It is really irrelevant if I am right about the amount of teams that want to play or not. Tournament team capping is pointless.
Also I'd just like to point out without having voters visible it's impossible to see whether the votes are genuine or from people that even play the game anymore. For all we know they could be 2nd accounts or old friends you've simply asked to vote for you. ;D
Well I guess it is another policy of yours that voting is public like in every democratic country, oh wait no thats in Syria. On FSE voters are rarely displayed so I don't what are you on about. And yes let use traditional US liberal startegy of saying oh its Russian bots rigging the eletion, very creative. I didn't ask anyone to vote meanwhile you have yours actually vote. And you are so delusional and sure that you are right and God of FSE that you told them haha let's troll and vote no for memes.
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Well I guess it is another policy of yours that voting is public like in every democratic country, oh wait no thats in Syria. On FSE voters are rarely displayed so I don't what are you on about. And yes let use traditional US liberal startegy of saying oh its Russian bots rigging the eletion, very creative. I didn't ask anyone to vote meanwhile you have yours actually vote.
https://gyazo.com/97c12c926efeff9945d8b1832c2755ff Just one example of what i was doing fam :) No fse vote is a valid way of getting a communities opinion as external people can vote if asked to!
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The issue with the discussion I had with you McPero is you weren't willing to negotiate you wanted everything to be yours and wouldn't let us help at all, as I concluded in my conversation last night with Chicken. Before we even made this group it was discussed openly on two different FSE posts so it was hardly private and we also had a meeting with around 30-40 people on TS, not all of which are involved directly or are even team captains where we outlined everything including boycotts so again this was never a secret nor was it hidden, private or even shady like you are implying.
I don't need to negotiate with you about anything. I would have gladly taken 2 or 3 referees but I won't when I am forced to. Tournament boycotting is not on your forum thread and not hidden at the same time, didn't know you were a quantum physicist Herishey. If you are really not hiding anything why am I not allowed to publish my discussion with Voluble and Herishey. Really not shady I must say.
In regards to the point about team caps as well that's just pure shit and shows how inactive and unaware you are of the community currently. We've never had backup teams or anything like that for when teams don't show up because we literally struggle to get 16 teams and in quite a few recent tournaments have had less, in some cases even as few as 8. As well you say it makes it harder for players to get into competitive that's not true at all as 90% of players at the moment that have played in tournaments or regiments over the last year that want to partake in tournaments are already in a team and if they wish to play in tournaments they can still reach out to teams if they wish to join. There are teams that aren't great and teams that are very good still in the community so in reality again that point is pure shit.
It is really irrelevant if I am right about the amount of teams that want to play or not. Tournament team capping is pointless.
Also I'd just like to point out without having voters visible it's impossible to see whether the votes are genuine or from people that even play the game anymore. For all we know they could be 2nd accounts or old friends you've simply asked to vote for you. ;D
Well I guess it is another policy of yours that voting is public like in every democratic country, oh wait no thats in Syria. On FSE voters are rarely displayed so I don't what are you on about. And yes let use traditional US liberal startegy of saying oh its Russian bots rigging the eletion, very creative. I didn't ask anyone to vote meanwhile you have yours actually vote. And you are so delusional and sure that you are right and God of FSE that you told them haha let's troll and vote no for memes.
Most of the time actually they are nowadays, again shows how out of touch you are. :)
Tournaments have always had team caps on them, we don't only allowed the team cpts we speak to to sign up of course. Any team can sign up it's simply first come first serve like it always has been. I don't want you posting our discussions because it was late at night and I wanted to go to bed so I was rushing everything, but it's hardly like I really said anything different to what we are saying on here only more bluntly.
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Well I guess it is another policy of yours that voting is public like in every democratic country, oh wait no thats in Syria. On FSE voters are rarely displayed so I don't what are you on about. And yes let use traditional US liberal startegy of saying oh its Russian bots rigging the eletion, very creative. I didn't ask anyone to vote meanwhile you have yours actually vote.
https://gyazo.com/97c12c926efeff9945d8b1832c2755ff Just one example of what i was doing fam :) No fse vote is a valid way of getting a communities opinion as external people can vote if asked to!
Yeah, vote of 10 team captains is.
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The issue with the discussion I had with you McPero is you weren't willing to negotiate you wanted everything to be yours and wouldn't let us help at all, as I concluded in my conversation last night with Chicken. Before we even made this group it was discussed openly on two different FSE posts so it was hardly private and we also had a meeting with around 30-40 people on TS, not all of which are involved directly or are even team captains where we outlined everything including boycotts so again this was never a secret nor was it hidden, private or even shady like you are implying.
I don't need to negotiate with you about anything. I would have gladly taken 2 or 3 referees but I won't when I am forced to. Tournament boycotting is not on your forum thread and not hidden at the same time, didn't know you were a quantum physicist Herishey. If you are really not hiding anything why am I not allowed to publish my discussion with Voluble and Herishey. Really not shady I must say.
In regards to the point about team caps as well that's just pure shit and shows how inactive and unaware you are of the community currently. We've never had backup teams or anything like that for when teams don't show up because we literally struggle to get 16 teams and in quite a few recent tournaments have had less, in some cases even as few as 8. As well you say it makes it harder for players to get into competitive that's not true at all as 90% of players at the moment that have played in tournaments or regiments over the last year that want to partake in tournaments are already in a team and if they wish to play in tournaments they can still reach out to teams if they wish to join. There are teams that aren't great and teams that are very good still in the community so in reality again that point is pure shit.
It is really irrelevant if I am right about the amount of teams that want to play or not. Tournament team capping is pointless.
Also I'd just like to point out without having voters visible it's impossible to see whether the votes are genuine or from people that even play the game anymore. For all we know they could be 2nd accounts or old friends you've simply asked to vote for you. ;D
Well I guess it is another policy of yours that voting is public like in every democratic country, oh wait no thats in Syria. On FSE voters are rarely displayed so I don't what are you on about. And yes let use traditional US liberal startegy of saying oh its Russian bots rigging the eletion, very creative. I didn't ask anyone to vote meanwhile you have yours actually vote. And you are so delusional and sure that you are right and God of FSE that you told them haha let's troll and vote no for memes.
Most of the time actually they are nowadays, again shows how out of touch you are. :)
Tournaments have always had team caps on them, we don't only allowed the team cpts we speak to to sign up of course. Any team can sign up it's simply first come first serve like it always has been. I don't want you posting our discussions because it was late at night and I wanted to go to bed so I was rushing everything, but it's hardly like I really said anything different to what we are saying on here only more bluntly.
Yeah must be one of the control phreak policies you managed to implement already.
Tournaments didn't always have caps on them. Yeah but what happens when you get 16 team captains and they all know when thread is coming up. That is a private event buddy.
I am okay with posting only Volubles he was up and ready whole day. His contains more information anyways. Clearly you don't wish to be exposed it seems.
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Well I guess it is another policy of yours that voting is public like in every democratic country, oh wait no thats in Syria. On FSE voters are rarely displayed so I don't what are you on about. And yes let use traditional US liberal startegy of saying oh its Russian bots rigging the eletion, very creative. I didn't ask anyone to vote meanwhile you have yours actually vote.
https://gyazo.com/97c12c926efeff9945d8b1832c2755ff Just one example of what i was doing fam :) No fse vote is a valid way of getting a communities opinion as external people can vote if asked to!
Yeah, vote of 10 team captains is.
Btw what are you trying to do here? As you said yourself the bulk of the competitive community is on board with this so why have you come out of nowhere and cried on fse? If you really wanted to resolve the issue you should have taken one of the lengthy discussions me and Herishey had with you and did something productive with it and met us in the middle. People agreed to these rules and agreed with this structure and the boycotting so when u refused to budge we boycotted! Don't make out like we did not try to work it out with you and don't try to make out like we just said "nah boycotted bye" because we both made many efforts to resolve it and I even messaged ckne to speak to you about meeting us in the middle! We made it very clear the minimum requirements to comply with what we have going and them requirements are in place to safeguard the competitiveness and the efficiency of the tournament hosting as we have had a few poor tournaments in past few months (last one was a 5v5 and it went on for 4 hours) so when you declined them, we after trying for ages asked some people about boycotting then when we had a general consensus then we boycotted it. This is not a decision by one or two people, it was done by multiple people and with the blessing of a lot more in hope of improving tournament quality, competitiveness and efficiency in hosting!
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Well I guess it is another policy of yours that voting is public like in every democratic country, oh wait no thats in Syria. On FSE voters are rarely displayed so I don't what are you on about. And yes let use traditional US liberal startegy of saying oh its Russian bots rigging the eletion, very creative. I didn't ask anyone to vote meanwhile you have yours actually vote.
https://gyazo.com/97c12c926efeff9945d8b1832c2755ff Just one example of what i was doing fam :) No fse vote is a valid way of getting a communities opinion as external people can vote if asked to!
Yeah, vote of 10 team captains is.
Btw what are you trying to do here? As you said yourself the bulk of the competitive community is on board with this so why have you come out of nowhere and cried on fse? If you really wanted to resolve the issue you should have taken one of the lengthy discussions me and Herishey had with you and did something productive with it and met us in the middle. People agreed to these rules and agreed with this structure and the boycotting so when u refused to budge we boycotted! Don't make out like we did not try to work it out with you and don't try to make out like we just said "nah boycotted bye" because we both made many efforts to resolve it and I even messaged ckne to speak to you about meeting us in the middle! We made it very clear the minimum requirements to comply with what we have going and them requirements are in place to safeguard the competitiveness and the efficiency of the tournament hosting as we have had a few poor tournaments in past few months (last one was a 5v5 and it went on for 4 hours) so when you declined them, we after trying for ages asked some people about boycotting then when we had a general consensus then we boycotted it. This is not a decision by one or two people, it was done by multiple people and with the blessing of a lot more in hope of improving tournament quality, competitiveness and efficiency in hosting!
Competitive community is a small part of whole community. I didn't come out of nowhere I talked with Herishey but we wouldn't be able to conclude anything as we disagreed, now why are you having a problem with me bringing up this publically if everyone is so on board and knows all this. I am not trying to make it out as if you weren't willing to negotitate with me I said you did in my post, what you fail to realise is that no one has to negotiate with you about anything. You are no authority just a group of scummy people bullying others with your cartel.
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Tbf why not let him host, its up to teams whether they want to play or not.
The TOG isn't an official body for NW
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Tbf why not let him host, its up to teams whether they want to play or not.
The TOG isn't an official body for NW
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Thats the whole fucking point of TOG though. It relies on the cooperation of all groupfighting leaders so that we dont get tournaments every week. If every gf team decides whether they want to play or not, then TOG is useless. You said it yourself, it isnt an official body, so it relies on trust and cooperation to reach a common goal.
If he wants to host a tournament, he can do it through TOG so that it fits in with the monthly schedule.
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TOG are essentially the nazi party of nw, nw has been taken over and all you sheeple are just sat there doing nothing!
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An agreeement with mcpero or any potential outcaster to come to terms with the TOG is plausible to reach, if anything I believe rushing the project is what has created this issue in the first place. This guy had his project in the making for weeks and as he's about to present it the TOG appears (officially, in FSE) and suddenly everything changes. I would have given it a month to make all points clear and transparent, and to have everyone know about the new order of things from team cpts to any community member be it players or potential organisers aware. Its not only a matter of formalities but also of time.
Now the TOG can be subject to change (I hope to talk to the organisers about rules/refs/voting system once home tomorrow) so we shouldnt be over-dramatic. I personally think mcpero should carry on with his tournament, as an independent, considering he's been "interrupted". Wasn't for it, we could anyway come to terms and have it work along the TOG principles - and I mention come to terms as I believe there's certain unique tournaments like the NWECT in this case worth protecting.
Also Chicken if you agree with this you are not my community rep.
I don't "agree" with it but I've worked with mcpero so he would raise his concerns not only because I also am his and his alikes CR but because I wanted to work on most of the concerns he raised. I forgot to tell him not to mention me in his post but he didn't anyway so its all good.
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Tbh at first I was against it but I believe it’s for the greater good so just go along with it or go suck ur own knob with the 5 people that sign up for any tournaments that are not through TOG.
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Well I guess it is another policy of yours that voting is public like in every democratic country, oh wait no thats in Syria. On FSE voters are rarely displayed so I don't what are you on about. And yes let use traditional US liberal startegy of saying oh its Russian bots rigging the eletion, very creative. I didn't ask anyone to vote meanwhile you have yours actually vote.
https://gyazo.com/97c12c926efeff9945d8b1832c2755ff Just one example of what i was doing fam :) No fse vote is a valid way of getting a communities opinion as external people can vote if asked to!
Yeah, vote of 10 team captains is.
Btw what are you trying to do here? As you said yourself the bulk of the competitive community is on board with this so why have you come out of nowhere and cried on fse? If you really wanted to resolve the issue you should have taken one of the lengthy discussions me and Herishey had with you and did something productive with it and met us in the middle. People agreed to these rules and agreed with this structure and the boycotting so when u refused to budge we boycotted! Don't make out like we did not try to work it out with you and don't try to make out like we just said "nah boycotted bye" because we both made many efforts to resolve it and I even messaged ckne to speak to you about meeting us in the middle! We made it very clear the minimum requirements to comply with what we have going and them requirements are in place to safeguard the competitiveness and the efficiency of the tournament hosting as we have had a few poor tournaments in past few months (last one was a 5v5 and it went on for 4 hours) so when you declined them, we after trying for ages asked some people about boycotting then when we had a general consensus then we boycotted it. This is not a decision by one or two people, it was done by multiple people and with the blessing of a lot more in hope of improving tournament quality, competitiveness and efficiency in hosting!
Competitive community is a small part of whole community. I didn't come out of nowhere I talked with Herishey but we wouldn't be able to conclude anything as we disagreed, now why are you having a problem with me bringing up this publically if everyone is so on board and knows all this. I am not trying to make it out as if you weren't willing to negotitate with me I said you did in my post, what you fail to realise is that no one has to negotiate with you about anything. You are no authority just a group of scummy people bullying others with your cartel.
"You are no authority just a group of scummy people bullying others with your cartel" McPero2k19
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So basically you are upset because the other kids in the sandbox didnt share with you???? :o :-\ jkjk lol but really though fam.....
(https://i.imgflip.com/2do5uo.jpg)
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Tbh at first I was against it but I believe it’s for the greater good so just go along with it or go suck ur own knob with the 5 people that sign up for any tournaments that are not through TOG.
You're actually special Smylie.
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Tbh at first I was against it but I believe it’s for the greater good so just go along with it or go suck ur own knob with the 5 people that sign up for any tournaments that are not through TOG.
You're actually special Smylie.
Yes I know but I’m truthful
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I don't have time to read the messages and the Thread message, I only read the first 3 sentences so I'll be quick.
How do you dare saying that ? On the European side, tournaments are DEAD, only a little group of people are taking it seriously. To me, 2019 was the end of the NW competition, so we decided to make the TOG, who is here to maintain the old level of competition by organizing bigger tournaments with prize pools.
Also, the three principal european tournaments hosters (which are MightyPaiN, MarxeiL and me) all agreed with this organization.
I just don't understand how you dare saying that, we're no trying to have a monopoly but to save this game, so it doesn't die before Bannerlord comes.
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This guy had his project in the making for weeks and as he's about to present it the TOG appears (officially, in FSE) and suddenly everything changes. I would have given it a month to make all points clear and transparent, and to have everyone know about the new order of things from team cpts to any community member be it players or potential organisers aware. Its not only a matter of formalities but also of time.
Since yesterday I think this is probably the only 'new' point I need to address. The project itself had also been in work for around a month, brought up on FSE via Fotin's thread that was in the community area (I believe), someone can probably find a link to it. It was discussed with the majority of people that have been hosting in the community or leading any major gf teams before we moved ahead with it as we of course wanted to check anyone that we deemed relevant at the time. McPero of course was not in that list as he hasn't hosted an event since 2017, and he probably never read the thread that I mention again because he isn't very active on FSE anymore.
I'd just like to point out that it's being made out like this was a secret or hidden agenda but it really wasn't. It may have been to a few players within teams or anyone outside of the competitive community as we didn't see it relevant to speak to them until it was definitely going ahead, but there was nothing stopping other organisers discussing it with others or captains discussing it with their team members.
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Tbh at first I was against it but I believe it’s for the greater good so just go along with it or go suck ur own knob with the 5 people that sign up for any tournaments that are not through TOG.
You're actually special Smylie.
Yes I know but I’m truthful
That doesn't make it any better.
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NA>EU lmao
EUs will unironically defend this
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Tbh at first I was against it but I believe it’s for the greater good so just go along with it or go suck ur own knob with the 5 people that sign up for any tournaments that are not through TOG.
You're actually special Smylie.
Yes I know but I’m truthful
That doesn't make it any better.
I’m allowed to be special!
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I want to end all this on one single point. "Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone" ~McPero2k19 We never said you "couldn't" host! We said the large group of teams within our organisation have all agreed to boycott tournaments we deem unfit or unable to meet in the middle! So by all means feel absolutely free to host the tournament as we are not stopping you nor shall we try to prevent you! We are just stating to you that we will not participate so do as you will mate and good luck if you do.
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You may share the idea of a tournament, rules and your own map/referee team via Steam with us. Even though, we will help you hosting it, so it's even better for you and community at all. I can't see the problem there..
By the way, the next month is basically free, so go on.
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I don't have time to read the messages and the Thread message, I only read the first 3 sentences so I'll be quick.
How do you dare saying that ? On the European side, tournaments are DEAD, only a little group of people are taking it seriously. To me, 2019 was the end of the NW competition, so we decided to make the TOG, who is here to maintain the old level of competition by organizing bigger tournaments with prize pools.
Also, the three principal european tournaments hosters (which are MightyPaiN, MarxeiL and me) all agreed with this organization.
I just don't understand how you dare saying that, we're no trying to have a monopoly but to save this game, so it doesn't die before Bannerlord comes.
Just don't post anything if you are not willing to read the whole thing or put any effort into learning proper English.
This guy had his project in the making for weeks and as he's about to present it the TOG appears (officially, in FSE) and suddenly everything changes. I would have given it a month to make all points clear and transparent, and to have everyone know about the new order of things from team cpts to any community member be it players or potential organisers aware. Its not only a matter of formalities but also of time.
Since yesterday I think this is probably the only 'new' point I need to address. The project itself had also been in work for around a month, brought up on FSE via Fotin's thread that was in the community area (I believe), someone can probably find a link to it. It was discussed with the majority of people that have been hosting in the community or leading any major gf teams before we moved ahead with it as we of course wanted to check anyone that we deemed relevant at the time. McPero of course was not in that list as he hasn't hosted an event since 2017, and he probably never read the thread that I mention again because he isn't very active on FSE anymore.
I'd just like to point out that it's being made out like this was a secret or hidden agenda but it really wasn't. It may have been to a few players within teams or anyone outside of the competitive community as we didn't see it relevant to speak to them until it was definitely going ahead, but there was nothing stopping other organisers discussing it with others or captains discussing it with their team members.
Yeah let's elegantly ignore some of the things and say they have been addressed.
That's not how things work in a normal community. Just because idea has been publicly discussed doesn't means TOG is exactly what has been discussed. Many things have been discussed on that thread and I believe not all the ideas are now in the TOG structure, so how does one know which ideas that have been brought up are now used in TOG, it is just not how things work. How is boyotting irelevant piece of information, please don't be so ridiculous. Your statement makes no sense, why are you posting a thread on FSE when things aren't final yet? If you are claimed you came to an agreement about boycotting after the thread was finished than why was it not updated? In what world can people be "on board" with some organisation when they don't fully know what this organisation is, since organisation itself apparently doesn't? You can't sign a deal and then just change it. But of course it makes more sense that you think boycotting being displayed on the forum thread would hurt the reputation of the TOG so you didn't even mention it.
You keep ignoring the fact that majority of team captains, organisers and referees are still a small minority of the community, EVERYONE is relevant. Thinking only top of the competitive scene has a say is pure elitism.
Let me make an allegory. In middle ages each city had a bakers' guild, all the bakers in the city would be part of it and would cooperate in order to make more money with less effort, because they would eliminate competition. Each baker would bake exact same amount of bread of same quality and sell it by the same price as everyone else. Now who does that effect the most? Bakers, it effected their lives very positively, but for everyone else it effected them negatively but just slightly. This is very similar to this situation where you think that because people that are most effected (positively) by TOG are elite of the competitive community so this is a great idea.
Why the team cap? Because "it has always been like that" is argument thiner than graphene, especially since it is not true.
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I didn't ignore any of your points I addressed them all in my post before the one you quoted. Boycotting is on the thread now, you can see it on the 2nd post with the terms. I added it a few hours ago once we had agreed on some terms between the head organisers on what we believe is a fair compromise. Before this could to be added to the thread we wanted to have clarity on exactly what the terms/requirements would be.
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I didn't ignore any of your points I addressed them all in my post before the one you quoted. Boycotting is on the thread now, you can see it on the 2nd post with the terms. I added it a few hours ago once we had agreed on some terms between the head organisers on what we believe is a fair compromise. Before this could to be added to the thread we wanted to have clarity on exactly what the terms/requirements would be.
Lie. Why are tournaments capped is still not addressed, as your 'it has always been like that' is far from the truth and it is not even an argument. As well as you didn't address how with tournament capping in theoretically having 16 captains working with TOG there is any space for anyone else when captains can easily manipulate the first come first serve system when they know when the tournament is coming up. Voluble has been even braging about 5v5 Defend the King has been signed up fully in a day just through TOG. Voluble also slipped that you need to be allowed to join TOG organisation. I really don't think he serves you well, might need to replace him.
Putting it on the thread 3 days after it is published and supposedly everyone was on board with it, doesn't changes the fact it was mysteriously missing. Even though there are still members of teams that are supposedly fully on board that don't even know whats happening. It would be really stupid if anything to not add it after you are exposed for it.
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I didn't ignore any of your points I addressed them all in my post before the one you quoted. Boycotting is on the thread now, you can see it on the 2nd post with the terms. I added it a few hours ago once we had agreed on some terms between the head organisers on what we believe is a fair compromise. Before this could to be added to the thread we wanted to have clarity on exactly what the terms/requirements would be.
Lie. Why are tournaments capped is still not addressed, as your 'it has always been like that' is far from the truth and it is not even an argument. As well as you didn't address how with tournament capping in theoretically having 16 captains working with TOG there is any space for anyone else when captains can easily manipulate the first come first serve system when they know when the tournament is coming up. Voluble has been even braging about 5v5 Defend the King has been signed up fully in a day just through TOG. Voluble also slipped that you need to be allowed to join TOG organisation. I really don't he serves you well, might need to replace him.
Putting it on the thread 3 days after it is published and supposedly everyone was on board with it, doesn't changes the fact it was mysteriously missing. Even though there are still members of teams that are supposedly fully on board that don't even know whats happening. It would be really stupid if anything to not add it after you are exposed for it.
I did mention we was fully signed up in a day to show u the support we have through messaging eachother within the group and we currently have alot of people involved in the group representing alot of different people and communities so atm we probably do not need as many people to be apart of the organisation in terms of hosting alongside us but that does not mean they can not contribute still. Also can we stop going off topic please? The title you gave this thread is how the freedom of hosting tournaments is gone when it clearly is not as you can still clearly host the tournament when and how you want to, all we have said is that all the teams in this group are boycotting it because it does not meet the requirements we set out in our meetings with representatives from every team. So can we leave this alone now and you go host the tournament and i wish you all the luck and if you want to host in the future i hope we can sort something out together.
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kinda reminds me of when the Fine Brothers tried to copyright reaction videos lmao
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Hi Smylie here!
I saw a point made earlier saying members of teams don’t know about the boycotting, well basically voluble sent around a little informational slip describing TOG now that didn’t really cover the boycotting but let’s face it if all my members like it then cool (which they did). Now you are probably gonna say Smylie reeee they don’t know about the boycotting well actually if my members actually cared they would check FSE and they’d be like Smylie reeee this idea is super gay but no even when I supplies them with all the threads nothing happened. In conclusion, to finish this off no one fucking cares what your opinions are now coz heri and vol have tried to explain things to you but you don’t want to listen, you can make a tournament just no one will attend so go suck yourself off.
Yours sincerely,
Smylie
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I didn't ignore any of your points I addressed them all in my post before the one you quoted. Boycotting is on the thread now, you can see it on the 2nd post with the terms. I added it a few hours ago once we had agreed on some terms between the head organisers on what we believe is a fair compromise. Before this could to be added to the thread we wanted to have clarity on exactly what the terms/requirements would be.
Lie. Why are tournaments capped is still not addressed, as your 'it has always been like that' is far from the truth and it is not even an argument. As well as you didn't address how with tournament capping in theoretically having 16 captains working with TOG there is any space for anyone else when captains can easily manipulate the first come first serve system when they know when the tournament is coming up. Voluble has been even braging about 5v5 Defend the King has been signed up fully in a day just through TOG. Voluble also slipped that you need to be allowed to join TOG organisation. I really don't think he serves you well, might need to replace him.
Putting it on the thread 3 days after it is published and supposedly everyone was on board with it, doesn't changes the fact it was mysteriously missing. Even though there are still members of teams that are supposedly fully on board that don't even know whats happening. It would be really stupid if anything to not add it after you are exposed for it.
Of course you have to be allowed to join, you have to prove yourself as a decent referee in order to be come a referee for example. Whether we like the person or not does not matter purely your experience or personality.
In regards to tournament caps again yes there have almost always been tournament caps even since around 2013. Not all tournaments i'll admit but 90% have had a team cap so that brackets won't give any free passes. Which is pretty much always how it has worked so I don't know why you're saying this is a lie.
In regards to having 16 captains on board with TOG as I said earlier this is still going to have an FSE page and it will still be first come first serve, like it always has been so your point there really is invalid. Organisers have always messaged captains when they make a new tournament over the past few years saying sign up if you'd like so this is really no different to how it's been for the past few years.
I already addressed why boycotting wasn't on the thread already as well. As I said we wanted to make sure we had the terms of this agreed on before it was on the thread.
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SHOW VOTERS
🦀$11🦀
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I didn't ignore any of your points I addressed them all in my post before the one you quoted. Boycotting is on the thread now, you can see it on the 2nd post with the terms. I added it a few hours ago once we had agreed on some terms between the head organisers on what we believe is a fair compromise. Before this could to be added to the thread we wanted to have clarity on exactly what the terms/requirements would be.
Lie. Why are tournaments capped is still not addressed, as your 'it has always been like that' is far from the truth and it is not even an argument. As well as you didn't address how with tournament capping in theoretically having 16 captains working with TOG there is any space for anyone else when captains can easily manipulate the first come first serve system when they know when the tournament is coming up. Voluble has been even braging about 5v5 Defend the King has been signed up fully in a day just through TOG. Voluble also slipped that you need to be allowed to join TOG organisation. I really don't think he serves you well, might need to replace him.
Putting it on the thread 3 days after it is published and supposedly everyone was on board with it, doesn't changes the fact it was mysteriously missing. Even though there are still members of teams that are supposedly fully on board that don't even know whats happening. It would be really stupid if anything to not add it after you are exposed for it.
Whether we like the person or not does not matter purely your experience or personality.
Personality is the main contributor to liking or disliking a person. So congratulations on contradicting yourself in the same sentence.
In regards to tournament caps again yes there have almost always been tournament caps even since around 2013. Not all tournaments i'll admit but 90% have had a team cap so that brackets won't give any free passes. Which is pretty much always how it has worked so I don't know why you're saying this is a lie.
Like I said not an argument saying it has always been like that. Nobody in history of NW has complained that they lost the tournament because they had to play and extra match as opposed to winner of the tournament. And nobody complained about being eliminated in 1st round instead of 2nd.
In regards to having 16 captains on board with TOG as I said earlier this is still going to have an FSE page and it will still be first come first serve, like it always has been so your point there really is invalid. Organisers have always messaged captains when they make a new tournament over the past few years saying sign up if you'd like so this is really no different to how it's been for the past few years.
Like I said team captains will know when the thread is coming up and will take all the slots before anyone else can, so my point stands. And this supposedly already happening before TOG really doesn't helps your case.
I already addressed why boycotting wasn't on the thread already as well. As I said we wanted to make sure we had the terms of this agreed on before it was on the thread.
So you are saying that you wanted teams to agree on these terms before you add it to the thread, but yet Voluble and you kept saying everyone is already on board with it. Seems like you were lying or you are lying now about the reason it wasn't on the thread, your pick.
SHOW VOTERS
🦀$11🦀
Can't since this website was made by reasonable people who value privacy of the voter. Maybe it is a costum in TOG to say voters won't be shown and then 3 days later haha just a joke, everyone can see how you voted now. Maybe you should move to some country with a dictator where elections are a public meme to show that everyone loves their leader, you would probably love it.
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wtf im on ur side
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You are just picking holes in nothing at this point. That's how dire your argument has got.
Captains were aware of the boycotting yes, it was discussed in tournaments. We still had to figure out at which point we would decide whether to boycott a tournament or not, which has already been explained to you now 3 times.
In relation to people complaining about playing one more match than another team again there you are wrong, people have complained plenty of times which is why tournaments became more consistent in terms of being done that way.
In relation to the captains point you are implying this is one of the issues that we have caused through TOG so yes of course it helps our argument as it has always been happening so we didn't cause it.
In regards to personality you don't have to like someone to know whether they are good at something or would be good at something. I work in a company with hundreds of people and lead a team of around 12, I don't like half the people in my team but I know who can do what.
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Like I said not what I was told by you or Vol, you keep lying. I was told if tournament is hosted outside of TOG it is automatically boycotted, I was never told there is a discussion about how boycotting will work (even if it was just a discussion in your head). So no I haven't been explained that 3 times. I've been rather lied to 3 times about it.
Well those people just used that as an excuse after they lost and were salty. Why would you care about such complains when it is clear they are completely unjustified. And you will have to provide some examples of it. So tournaments have become more consistent because of it? Why? This whole thing started because of spam of shit tournaments but you keep arguing something is good just because it has been done in that time period.
So just because it was happening before it is okay for TOG to keep doing it? I thought TOG was there to change things and improve tournaments and not keep making same mistakes people were doing when hosting tournaments.
Yeah knowing who can do what is knowing someones abilities and skills not their personality. I completely agree you have to have capable people for hosting and admining, but why is MightyPaiN a host who is the embodiment of low quality tournament spam and Vol a head organiser when he is so unstable and everyone knows he is metal.
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I explained to you over Steam that we could come to a compromise and also to Chicken who said he was trying to come to a compromise with you as well that there were certain terms we still needed to talk out so I don't feel I lied to you once.
The middle two points I'm not going to bother answering as you've said your argument and I've said mine at least 3 times now on those two here so people can make their own decision on that one.
MightyPain I have known for quite some time now and he's always open to advice. His tournaments have improved the more he has hosted them (maybe not his threads though) and I believe with us helping him he'll do well. Voluble on the other hand I know can be a loose cannon but I believe he will try to reign it in more and he is very motivated and pro-active about trying to get TOG in order and functioning. But if you want to talk about people in specific I'd rather talk to you via Steam or PM's as I don't want this to becoming a personal attack fest.
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Just looking for a bit of clarification because this is very very complicated and I am a captain of a groupfighting team and I was not told about this.
Is every single Groupfighting team captain invited to help/advise (however you want to call it) this? And will you boycott every single tournament which isn't your own? What happens when, say the Visegrad cup a while back, some other tournaments are organised, will they be stopped or will it more depend on the situation and whether it interferes with what you have planned?
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They only do the tournaments that take place on one Sunday, so Visegrad cup is not included. That is also a regimental tournament instead one for groupfighting teams. I do not know which groupfighting teams are in this group exactly. But ye i just hope they have more slots in tournaments that a 4v4 or less. so that teams like ivan's and my team MC_WICKED can still compete without it being full in 1 day.
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I do not know which groupfighting teams are in this group exactly. But ye i just hope they have more slots in tournaments that a 4v4 or less. so that teams like ivan's and my team MC_WICKED can still compete without it being full in 1 day.
Maybe try qualifier matches for smaller/newer/unknown teams. Like a mini league/tournament before the end of the month tournament with the winning Team(s) getting to participate in the Main event. Dunno if theres that much demand from more casual teams tho
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I went through the conversation again and I didn't find anywhere that you would say that how boycotting would work as being discussed if you wish to show it I allow you to share that part of the private conversation we had and I also ask you to allow me to share the parts where you said everyone is on board with boycotting. That way it can be proved you never said anything that would come close to this:
We still had to figure out at which point we would decide whether to boycott a tournament or not,
For other points I can see your point of view and why you defend them. But tournament cap combined with captains knowing when the tournament is coming seems just you being stubborn, since you are yet to provide a good argument to capping.
His tournaments have been getting better yet his last one lasted 4 hours, where he changed the format 5 minutes before the tournament (not sure exactly when but it was just before), tournament started with half an hour delay, players were literally exhausted from playing so many group stage games. Tournament ended with allegedly Voluble cheating ExtaZZs' team to lose the final and if it wasn't for ExtaZZ recording it, it would have stayed at that result. Since Voluble was referring his own final match and MightyPaiN left his own tournament. It is hardly a personal attack to say someone is not skilled at hosting events.
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The more teams the more fun I think. I just hope they are open for something like this:16 teams. 4 groups of 4. And if 4 more teams apply they do 20 teams with 4 groups of 5 teams. not just put it at 16 max per tournament. Not like mightypains last tournament were there were 8 in 1 group, which makes adding more teams more difficult, also makes the tournament to long.
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You may share the idea of a tournament, rules and your own map/referee team via Steam with us. Even though, we will help you hosting it, so it's even better for you and community at all. I can't see the problem there..
By the way, the next month is basically free, so go on.
Why should people go through you though? I'm all for co-operation and planning out dates of tournaments to ensure that they don't collide, but one group shouldn't be in control of what tournaments are hosted and what tournaments aren't. Just my two cents on the issue.
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I do not know which groupfighting teams are in this group exactly. But ye i just hope they have more slots in tournaments that a 4v4 or less. so that teams like ivan's and my team MC_WICKED can still compete without it being full in 1 day.
Maybe try qualifier matches for smaller/newer/unknown teams. Like a mini league/tournament before the end of the month tournament with the winning Team(s) getting to participate in the Main event. Dunno if theres that much demand from more casual teams tho
What are you talking about? Demand for casual teams?? That's not how public tournaments work in normal communities. Host doesn't have a demand for teams to sign up. There is just supply of teams that want to play and if you are trying to make a public tournament you take in as many as you can. Only restrictions being server lag from too many people and tournament being too long because there is so many matches that need to be played.
Both of those can be solved with more servers, admins being used or splitting tournament into multiple day one. But I don't think we have a problem with those two unless you decide for an unfortunate tournament format.
There is no need for some elitist mind set that only best teams and players can play in some 1st league. And even if you make this first league you always need as second.
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You may share the idea of a tournament, rules and your own map/referee team via Steam with us. Even though, we will help you hosting it, so it's even better for you and community at all. I can't see the problem there..
By the way, the next month is basically free, so go on.
Why should people go through you though? I'm all for co-operation and planning out dates of tournaments to ensure that they don't collide, but one group shouldn't be in control of what tournaments are hosted and what tournaments aren't. Just my two cents on the issue.
They wont have to go through us, they can go ahead and host their tournament. None of the teams that are part of this group will sign up though. We are not forcing any captains to boycott, this was all discussed on teamspeak a month ago and we have a steam chat where people have been discussing it for weeks. Every captain that is on board agreed with this. It's the captains own choice if he signs up his team or not. Its just that all captains of important teams agreed not to sign up if a tournament is not done through this group.
What i find weird is that we already involved all people that are/ have been relevant in the tournament hosting world over the last year. We involved all of the big teams and most of the small teams. The only people complaining are people who haven't had anything to do with competitive tournaments for over a year. Whether through hosting, or playing in them. If 90% or more of the people relevant (captains hosters referees) in the comp. tournament scene agree to do it this way, then what are you complaining about.
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If there are any teams that aren't involved yet and would like more information or want to get involved as well let one of the head organisers know and we can see what we can do.
The more teams the more fun I think. I just hope they are open for something like this:16 teams. 4 groups of 4. And if 4 more teams apply they do 20 teams with 4 groups of 5 teams. not just put it at 16 max per tournament. Not like mightypains last tournament were there were 8 in 1 group, which makes adding more teams more difficult, also makes the tournament to long.
If it becomes regular that more than 16 teams would like to sign up then this would certainly be discussed.
You may share the idea of a tournament, rules and your own map/referee team via Steam with us. Even though, we will help you hosting it, so it's even better for you and community at all. I can't see the problem there..
By the way, the next month is basically free, so go on.
Why should people go through you though? I'm all for co-operation and planning out dates of tournaments to ensure that they don't collide, but one group shouldn't be in control of what tournaments are hosted and what tournaments aren't. Just my two cents on the issue.
If you look on the thread I've updated it with more specific requirements in order for us to consider it a tournament we'd attend and I believe these to be quite fair, basic and wouldn't impede the organiser massively. I know we are by no means entitled to choose this which is why we spoke to as many captains as we could and discussed this before going ahead with the idea. Again anyone can host what they want but as Rikkert said if the captain doesn't want to sign up for it then they won't sign up.
I can understand peoples concern but as Rikkert also said pretty much anyone that was involved with tournament hosting heavily is in the group and if someone does want to get involved into the group and become an 'official tog hoster' as such then they can get in contact with us as well to discuss this.
As I've said several times we don't want to stop people hosting, we just want to make sure their tournament is going to be a reasonable quality and on a date reasonably away from other tournaments so that it's worth attending.
@McPero that's my bad then, it must have just been Chicken I discussed this with.
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@McPero that's my bad then, it must have just been Chicken I discussed this with.
So you lied to me about everyone being on board with boycotting any tournament that is not hosted through TOG or are you lying about the reason why boycotting wasn't published untill I brought it up on this thread?
If it becomes regular that more than 16 teams would like to sign up then this would certainly be discussed.
How will you know how many teams outside of TOG want to sign up if every tournament is full? People usually don't ask people to attend a groupfighting tournament to make a team for it when signs up are full. I doubt people will try to sign up when tournament is full.
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Neither. I simply failed to mention to you we are still discussing the exact terms under which we would potentially boycott a tournament.
The 2nd tournament we are hosting this month still isn't full so it's not like they are filling up instantly, it's taking a good few weeks giving people time.
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If it becomes regular that more than 16 teams would like to sign up then this would certainly be discussed.
How will you know how many teams outside of TOG want to sign up if every tournament is full? People usually don't ask people to attend a groupfighting tournament to make a team for it when signs up are full. I doubt people will try to sign up when tournament is full.
First of all, im fairly certain almost all teams are part of TOG, there might be some less known teams or casual teams but they are free to join aswell. And as heri said, if more teams pop up, then they are also free to join.
Secondly it doesn't matter if a captain is in TOG or not for the signups. There is no difference between a TOG team as you are calling it and a non TOG team. There is no such thing as a TOG team. Signups are done on a first come first serve basis, like any normal tournament, not a TOG first everyone else later. So if teams outside of TOG sign up then they are treated the same as every 'TOG team'.
Thirdly people can always sign up to full tournaments as reserves. If a team drops out they can take their spot. Or if enough reserves sign up, then an expansion can be discussed with the organisers.
I don't know why you keep posting on this thread. All of the things you bring up are non-issues that have either already been discussed or are just rules of practice concerning tournaments.
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Neither. I simply failed to mention to you we are still discussing the exact terms under which we would potentially boycott a tournament.
The 2nd tournament we are hosting this month still isn't full so it's not like they are filling up instantly, it's taking a good few weeks giving people time.
See it is hard for anyone to believe that. Since my main point the whole time was to not boycott tournaments and rather offer them help. I believe any sensible person would mention that exact terms are still being discussed and wouldn't repeat multiple times that tournaments outside of TOG are automatically boycotted by everyone inside the group. Voluble has also failed to mention it and was saying the same thing.
Every person that has some wit will realise what happened here. Captains and members of TOG were on board with the boycotting of tournaments outside the TOG. But you decided to not publish it on the forum thread as it wouldn't be good for the reputation of TOG. Which made made TOG look as some cooperation group that is there just to help. Then you have been exposed for it with this thread so you were forced to publish it and you had to come up with the excuses as to why it wasn't published. At first you were just claiming everyone knows about the boycotting and it is not needed on the thread, then you changed your story to one that it wasn't exactly decided how boycotting would work.
Maybe because it is hosted by MightyPaiN? And there is nothing special about it?
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Well i dont know who the fuck are you or what the fuck are you on about ¿
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Again McPero stop pointing things at specific people such as MightyPain.
Again your post is just spouting the same things that I have already addressed so I feel there is no need for me to really post anything back to that. We were hardly 'exposed' all you did was speed up what we were already planning to do and now everyone is aware, so thanks.
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Again McPero stop pointing things at specific people such as MightyPain.
Again your post is just spouting the same things that I have already addressed so I feel there is no need for me to really post anything back to that. We were hardly 'exposed' all you did was speed up what we were already planning to do and now everyone is aware, so thanks.
Why? Is that against forum rules to evaluate someones tournament hosting skill?
My post is spouting how you keep lying and not properly adressing anything. And now that you can't defend your lies anymore you are saying I'm just saying the same things and there is nothing to discuss anymore. And by speed up you mean pressured to change things, which would never happen if it wasn't for someone exposing you.
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I think everything has already been explained to you McPero but the simple answer is this. The TOG is designed to help everyone and benefit the whole community, its not a 'cartel' a 'monopoly' or whatever else you have been calling it. It was agreed upon and the rules designed by the entire competitive community since its focused solely on competitive tournaments nothing else, so the rest of the community is irrelevant.
There has been a group discussion chat for weeks now involving all parties discussing varies aspects of the TOG. Why you weren't part of it is because you are irrelevant and haven't attended a single tournament or been in a groupfighting team for god knows how long so your entire opinion on our tournaments and our competitive scene is also completely, irrelevant.
The whole boycotting tournaments aspect was not boycotting because we dislike you or certain organisers its simply everyone who participates in the TOG has basically agreed some tournaments are shit and some are too frequent and so we wont be attending those.
In regards to what the TOG is doing, it's simply creating a better more defined and competitive tournament rotor to the competitive scene in agreement with the majority of important organisers and staff and the majority of major groupfighting teams.
Anything you have to say about it at this point is stupid and your entire argument so far has been based upon nitpicking rules and nonsensical statements. The TOG is here to help and reinvent the competitive scene and its a collective of the whole competitive community.
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Again McPero stop pointing things at specific people such as MightyPain.
Again your post is just spouting the same things that I have already addressed so I feel there is no need for me to really post anything back to that. We were hardly 'exposed' all you did was speed up what we were already planning to do and now everyone is aware, so thanks.
Why? Is that against forum rules to evaluate someones tournament hosting skill?
My post is spouting how you keep lying and not properly adressing anything. And now that you can't defend your lies anymore you are saying I'm just saying the same things and there is nothing to discuss anymore. And by speed up you mean pressured to change things, which would never happen if it wasn't for someone to expose you.
You keep saying 'me' this is a group of people and I'm not even the one who first got the whole thing moving and again I haven't lied about anything I just failed to inform you, a single person of one point. It's also not I can't defend my points it's just I'm repeating the same thing and so are you so there is no point me just saying 'X xxxxx' then you just going 'Y yyyyyy' over and over again. If you bring up something new then sure I'll address it.
It's not against the rules but if you keep mentioning the same name in a negative way then that can be seen as harassment which is against the rules.
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Again McPero stop pointing things at specific people such as MightyPain.
Again your post is just spouting the same things that I have already addressed so I feel there is no need for me to really post anything back to that. We were hardly 'exposed' all you did was speed up what we were already planning to do and now everyone is aware, so thanks.
Why? Is that against forum rules to evaluate someones tournament hosting skill?
My post is spouting how you keep lying and not properly adressing anything. And now that you can't defend your lies anymore you are saying I'm just saying the same things and there is nothing to discuss anymore. And by speed up you mean pressured to change things, which would never happen if it wasn't for someone to expose you.
You keep saying 'me' this is a group of people and I'm not even the one who first got the whole thing moving and again I haven't lied about anything I just failed to inform you, a single person of one point. It's also not I can't defend my points it's just I'm repeating the same thing and so are you so there is no point me just saying 'X xxxxx' then you just going 'Y yyyyyy' over and over again. If you bring up something new then sure I'll address it.
It's not against the rules but if you keep mentioning the same name in a negative way then that can be seen as harassment which is against the rules.
I'm not just saying you. I also said Voluble didn't conveniently to your argument failed to mention any discussion on boycotting matter. There is no way you would accidentally fail to mention such an important piece of information.
No you actually can't defend them. You are yet to address how your reasoning for not posting boycotting on the TOG thread went from it was not needed too it was not final and was being discussed. You also haven't provided a reason for tournament capping.
Mentioning someone in a 'negative' way for the purpose of explaining something is not harassment, I didn't say anything that would be harassment. And you sadly wouldn't be the one deciding whether it is or not because of conflict of interests. If other mods think this is harassment they will properly moderate it.
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Yes, I did address tournament caps and our reasoning for not putting boycotting on the thread at first. Whether you accept them as valid or 'enough' is your opinion. I've put my opinion out there. I'm not going to keep saying the same thing like you seem to be.
We are literally doing what I said above now lol.
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You may share the idea of a tournament, rules and your own map/referee team via Steam with us. Even though, we will help you hosting it, so it's even better for you and community at all. I can't see the problem there..
By the way, the next month is basically free, so go on.
Why should people go through you though? I'm all for co-operation and planning out dates of tournaments to ensure that they don't collide, but one group shouldn't be in control of what tournaments are hosted and what tournaments aren't. Just my two cents on the issue.
They wont have to go through us, they can go ahead and host their tournament. None of the teams that are part of this group will sign up though. We are not forcing any captains to boycott, this was all discussed on teamspeak a month ago and we have a steam chat where people have been discussing it for weeks. Every captain that is on board agreed with this. It's the captains own choice if he signs up his team or not. Its just that all captains of important teams agreed not to sign up if a tournament is not done through this group.
Why though? To me, TOG is a great idea to filter the "prestigious" or "major", traditional tournaments, such as 5v5, 6v6, 7v7 tournaments hosted by known hosts, like Sir-Follkas aka Deadly DF, or MightyPaiN, from those which are hosted by some random billy123456. I don't see the reason to boycott billy's tournament, just because he's a no-name or because he doesn't give a shit about this TOG. Let him be, let him host his tournament, even if it is on a Thursday, 4 days after MarxeiL's tournament. Don't disallow players from participating and simply just take it less seriously, as it's not a TOG tournament (= not a major, meaning irrelevant to the comp. scene and ranking), thus you don't have to (!but can!) join as TBE or ChimpZ, but as TBInvite or RetardZ and have a good time without sweating and tryharding in the name of your (un)holy team and your tiny willy, as you did 4 days ago.
Because to me, it sounds that teams like TBE and thus their members are automatically disallowed to join billy's tournament because it's outside TOG? What happens if a team "breaks" this agreement? Will the team become blacklisted, or the captain?
Now, if what I said in my example is what you mean by "none of the teams that are part of this group will sign up" and that people will/can create random, new teams and perceive the tournament as a rather public experience, than the typical elite tournament, then I apologize and you can ignore my post.
Because once I come back to host another tournament from my 'le pitchovina' series, such as 6v6 - 4 swords and 2 muskets (little teaser), I don't want to see some communistic tournament party of NW telling players to not sign up.
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Wasn't TOG made because people didnt want tournament spam? Ofcourse you have to boycot other tournaments bcuz thats the whole idea of it? I was not involved in making TOG so correct me if im wrong. But this should end all your discussions.
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#Soon LePitchovina the most relevant tournament that ever was.
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Wasn't TOG made because people didnt want tournament spam? Ofcourse you have to boycot other tournaments bcuz thats the whole idea of it? I was not involved in making TOG so correct me if im wrong. But this should end all your discussions.
You wanna differentiate the tournaments, point out, which are to be taken seriously or which are to be "ranked" and which are to be taken as a random tourney for pubbies and friends, not boycott and disallow people from participating in the non-TOG tournament.
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From what I remember what people said is that they wanted tournaments to have some meaning in winning it. I never really seen a purely casual tournaments,you want tournaments to be competitive. The casual gfs en pickups you do through the weeks are for the fun matches for friends I guess. But if you wanna start a sort of new genre for tournaments try it out I would say. But I think people will troll the shit out of it.
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From what I remember what people said is that they wanted tournaments to have some meaning in winning it. I never really seen a purely casual tournaments,you want tournaments to be competitive. The casual gfs en pickups you do through the weeks are for the fun matches for friends I guess. But if you wanna start a sort of new genre for tournaments try it out I would say. But I think people will troll the shit out of it.
What do you mean by a new genre? Dunno about you, but I don't really see meaning in winning tournaments like inf+cav or 2+ swords+bayo, as well as voluble's protecc the king etc. Then, if there happen to be 2 5v5 tournaments in one week, one from Nemesis and one from billy, ofc you will tryhard the shit out of marxIel's tournament, as you want those juicy M.points. But that doesn't mean you can't join billy's tournament and have fun, maybe use it as a sort of a series of friendly matches in a tournament format. EDIT: That's basically when would the TOG come in play, as it would determine Marxeil's tournament as the one for us, tryhard virgins and billy's tournament for anyone and everyone, and it would not have an effect on M.points or any other ranking stats. But it would in no way told players "yo don't join that other tourny thanks", for pretty much no reason.
You have a point with the trolling bit tho, NW players have IQ below 40, no exceptions.
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I think everything has already been explained to you McPero but the simple answer is this. The TOG is designed to help everyone and benefit the whole community, its not a 'cartel' a 'monopoly' or whatever else you have been calling it. It was agreed upon and the rules designed by the entire competitive community since its focused solely on competitive tournaments nothing else, so the rest of the community is irrelevant.
There has been a group discussion chat for weeks now involving all parties discussing varies aspects of the TOG. Why you weren't part of it is because you are irrelevant and haven't attended a single tournament or been in a groupfighting team for god knows how long so your entire opinion on our tournaments and our competitive scene is also completely, irrelevant.
The whole boycotting tournaments aspect was not boycotting because we dislike you or certain organisers its simply everyone who participates in the TOG has basically agreed some tournaments are shit and some are too frequent and so we wont be attending those.
In regards to what the TOG is doing, it's simply creating a better more defined and competitive tournament rotor to the competitive scene in agreement with the majority of important organisers and staff and the majority of major groupfighting teams.
Anything you have to say about it at this point is stupid and your entire argument so far has been based upon nitpicking rules and nonsensical statements. The TOG is here to help and reinvent the competitive scene and its a collective of the whole competitive community.
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From what I remember what people said is that they wanted tournaments to have some meaning in winning it. I never really seen a purely casual tournaments,you want tournaments to be competitive. The casual gfs en pickups you do through the weeks are for the fun matches for friends I guess. But if you wanna start a sort of new genre for tournaments try it out I would say. But I think people will troll the shit out of it.
What do you mean by a new genre? Dunno about you, but I don't really see meaning in winning tournaments like inf+cav or 2+ swords+bayo, as well as voluble's protecc the king etc. Then, if there happen to be 2 5v5 tournaments in one week, one from Nemesis and one from billy, ofc you will tryhard the shit out of marxIel's tournament, as you want those juicy M.points. But that doesn't mean you can't join billy's tournament and have fun, maybe use it as a sort of a series of friendly matches in a tournament format.
You have a point with the trolling bit tho, NW players have IQ below 40, no exceptions.
I have not attended a friendly tournament format so far, so I have no idea if that can work. What I was after in my last comment is that I think that those tournaments will just be trolling team vs trolling team. Sounds more like a sort of pickup event instead of tournament that is organised via fse. But as I said try it out. I personally don't like to stay at a tournament that last 4 hours and everyone just trolls, which I expect from this community tbh. So with genre i mean that is it not really a competitive tournament you are suggesting right? The thread where tournaments are posted is called Competitive eu events.
And m. point is in the mess hell and should not be taken seriously, atleast I don't. So who does tournaments for mpoints?
But I would like to try out a friendly tournament, but i just dont have high hopes.
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STOP USING MY NAME AS ANTAGONIST OF BILLY KORESAN!!!!
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From what I remember what people said is that they wanted tournaments to have some meaning in winning it. I never really seen a purely casual tournaments,you want tournaments to be competitive. The casual gfs en pickups you do through the weeks are for the fun matches for friends I guess. But if you wanna start a sort of new genre for tournaments try it out I would say. But I think people will troll the shit out of it.
What do you mean by a new genre? Dunno about you, but I don't really see meaning in winning tournaments like inf+cav or 2+ swords+bayo, as well as voluble's protecc the king etc. Then, if there happen to be 2 5v5 tournaments in one week, one from Nemesis and one from billy, ofc you will tryhard the shit out of marxIel's tournament, as you want those juicy M.points. But that doesn't mean you can't join billy's tournament and have fun, maybe use it as a sort of a series of friendly matches in a tournament format.
You have a point with the trolling bit tho, NW players have IQ below 40, no exceptions.
And m. point is in the mess hell and should not be taken seriously, atleast I don't. So who does tournaments for mpoints?
Everyone does, even when they say they don't. ;)
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well ye cant really prove you wrong or right with that statement.I must admit the posts there have been entertaining.
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ye
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arguing with V OMEGALUL LUBLE in 2019
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You may share the idea of a tournament, rules and your own map/referee team via Steam with us. Even though, we will help you hosting it, so it's even better for you and community at all. I can't see the problem there..
By the way, the next month is basically free, so go on.
Why should people go through you though? I'm all for co-operation and planning out dates of tournaments to ensure that they don't collide, but one group shouldn't be in control of what tournaments are hosted and what tournaments aren't. Just my two cents on the issue.
If we controlled what tournaments are hosted by telling people they can't host then you would be correct! But we decide together when to host and what to host with all gf leaders voting on what tourny should be hosted so we are not in "control" but more so deciding together what is best for the bulk of us onboard. Anyone can feel free to do independent tournaments but if they are not assoicated with us at all or if they dont meet the requirements all the teams in the group decided then we will all not play that tournament. That is the extent of it really tbf but this thread has blown it out of proportion.
If anyone needs any information at all anout TOG feel free to add any of the head organisers and we can give you any information you require.
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So bottom line is that your group either wants people to be a part of your organization, or you'll not attend their tournament if it is within the timeframe of your own events. Is there any list anywhere that is easily accessible where one can see which teams are a part of TOG? Didn't see it listed on your thread.
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You may share the idea of a tournament, rules and your own map/referee team via Steam with us. Even though, we will help you hosting it, so it's even better for you and community at all. I can't see the problem there..
By the way, the next month is basically free, so go on.
Why should people go through you though? I'm all for co-operation and planning out dates of tournaments to ensure that they don't collide, but one group shouldn't be in control of what tournaments are hosted and what tournaments aren't. Just my two cents on the issue.
They wont have to go through us, they can go ahead and host their tournament. None of the teams that are part of this group will sign up though. We are not forcing any captains to boycott, this was all discussed on teamspeak a month ago and we have a steam chat where people have been discussing it for weeks. Every captain that is on board agreed with this. It's the captains own choice if he signs up his team or not. Its just that all captains of important teams agreed not to sign up if a tournament is not done through this group.
Don't disallow players from participating and simply just take it less seriously, as it's not a TOG tournament.
Because to me, it sounds that teams like TBE and thus their members are automatically disallowed to join billy's tournament because it's outside TOG? What happens if a team "breaks" this agreement? Will the team become blacklisted, or the captain?
We don't disallow anyone to host their tournaments, anyone can go host a tournament. It is just that the captains of the teams involved (most teams are involved at this point) agreed not to participate. We also aren't forcing any captain to not sign his team up. For now the system is based on trust and cooperation with the captains that agreed to work together. I don't know if there will ever be a system of enforcement or black listing of teams. That is not up to me, but the head organisers.
Again, no TBE would not be disallowed to sign up. It is just that TBE agreed not to sign up, as most teams have so far.
Now, if what I said in my example is what you mean by "none of the teams that are part of this group will sign up" and that people will/can create random, new teams and perceive the tournament as a rather public experience, than the typical elite tournament, then I apologize and you can ignore my post.
You can sign up your team with friends. Even TBE or chimpz could sign up. But it would defeat the purpose of the agreement and the TOG as a whole. Because if one team breaks the agreement, noone will take it seriously anymore and were back to square one.
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You may share the idea of a tournament, rules and your own map/referee team via Steam with us. Even though, we will help you hosting it, so it's even better for you and community at all. I can't see the problem there..
By the way, the next month is basically free, so go on.
Why should people go through you though? I'm all for co-operation and planning out dates of tournaments to ensure that they don't collide, but one group shouldn't be in control of what tournaments are hosted and what tournaments aren't. Just my two cents on the issue.
They wont have to go through us, they can go ahead and host their tournament. None of the teams that are part of this group will sign up though. We are not forcing any captains to boycott, this was all discussed on teamspeak a month ago and we have a steam chat where people have been discussing it for weeks. Every captain that is on board agreed with this. It's the captains own choice if he signs up his team or not. Its just that all captains of important teams agreed not to sign up if a tournament is not done through this group.
Don't disallow players from participating and simply just take it less seriously, as it's not a TOG tournament.
Because to me, it sounds that teams like TBE and thus their members are automatically disallowed to join billy's tournament because it's outside TOG? What happens if a team "breaks" this agreement? Will the team become blacklisted, or the captain?
We don't disallow anyone to host their tournaments, anyone can go host a tournament. It is just that the captains of the teams involved (most teams are involved at this point) agreed not to participate. We also aren't forcing any captain to not sign his team up. For now the system is based on trust and cooperation with the captains that agreed to work together. I don't know if there will ever be a system of enforcement or black listing of teams. That is not up to me, but the head organisers.
Again, no TBE would not be disallowed to sign up. It is just that TBE agreed not to sign up, as most teams have so far.
Now, if what I said in my example is what you mean by "none of the teams that are part of this group will sign up" and that people will/can create random, new teams and perceive the tournament as a rather public experience, than the typical elite tournament, then I apologize and you can ignore my post.
You can sign up your team with friends. Even TBE or chimpz could sign up. But it would defeat the purpose of the agreement and the TOG as a whole. Because if one team breaks the agreement, noone will take it seriously anymore and were back to square one.
Like, I'm not trynna be offensive or anything, but the TOG tries to stop tournament spam, right? Well, the very only 2 reasons that there was this tournament spam are the 2 members of the TOG - MP, and Marxeil, lmao. That's why I and many others find it kinda silly because this could have been easily resolved by some communication between the two. Like sure, as an organisational group that helps with tournaments etc it is cool, but boycotting that one or 2 random tournaments, that some random guy once in 3 months hosts is simply beyond me.
I have received your and Volubles explanations which is all fine and dandy, but I'm not gonna change my opinion on this.
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Like, I'm not trynna be offensive or anything, but the TOG tries to stop tournament spam, right? Well, the very only 2 reasons that there was this tournament spam are the 2 members of the TOG - MP, and Marxeil, lmao. That's why I and many others find it kinda silly because this could have been easily resolved by some communication between the two. Like sure, as an organisational group that helps with tournaments etc it is cool, but boycotting that one or 2 random tournaments, that some random guy once in 3 months hosts is simply beyond me.
I have received your and Volubles explanations which is all fine and dandy, but I'm not gonna change my opinion on this.
I agree they are two people who host majorty of tournaments, I would however say the immediate issue was quality of tournaments rather than spam (in recent times). But the prior spam of tournaments is something that can easily happen again more than likely would of which is why its very good to get the two main hosts on board to prevent it happening further. I agree there could have been alternate methods to come to the goal of stopping tournament spam, but that is simply one of the issues within the tournament hosting in the game. Yes, it is good you see the "cool" and positive side of it and from the information you have, I see how you came to this conclusion. But as you mentioned previously, "That's why I and many others find it kinda silly" as a person you get your opinion which is formed from what you see, this is why we all formed under one name and group to combine all our opinions of the current level of hosting, and that is why we all formed a group. Now with making a group with our combined opinions, we very quickly agreed upon what we would do in certain situations if people tried to host without any association or communication and meeting us in the middle, we would boycott them. Boycotting is the last resort, it comes after us trying to meet the organiser in the middle to get what the group (consists of alot 12 top gf teams who play every tournament) decided in our meetings. So if the organiser does not want to budge and meet us in the middle, he is technically rejecting to adhere to what the majority of the comp scene want from a tournament. So why is it a big deal and why is it so wrong if we do all mutual boycott? This is something like minded people have warmed to and the vast majority are on board with. In the future it would be better for people to know what TOG is before we start to engage in discussions as this time, McPero did not know who we was and so did a lot of people outside of the loop who may be slightly inactive. We did not want it to end this way and it is sad it has come to this but that is just a mutual disagreement on what we all wanted from tournaments and McPero did not want to adhere to what the community agreed on :/ Sorry again and It would be nice is McPero could change his subject on the thread as he himself admitted it was a meme title and can't think of a relevant one, yet this subject is misleading when clicking on it and simply untrue. So sorry again and bye bye xoxo
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I found a sufficient meme for the title I hope V OMEGALUL L U B L E is happy. I am locking the voting. Thread will be locked tomorrow at some point so you can still post. I feel like most of the stuff has been discussed and since no side can force the other to anything there is no point in continuing, if someone disagrees I can maybe leave the thread unlocked. Kids you have like less than a day to get this thread to 100 pages.
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I found a sufficient meme for the title I hope V OMEGALUL L U B L E is happy. I am locking the voting. Thread will be locked tomorrow at some point so you can still post. I feel like most of the stuff has been discussed and since no side can force the other to anything there is no point in continuing, if someone disagrees I can maybe leave the thread unlocked. Kids you have like less than a day to get this thread to 100 pages.
Hey, you are the one making serious threads bitching about TOG, yet you make a "meme" title basically hinting at us limiting freedom of tournament hosting which is lieing and misleading and for someone so serious in making a point, that was very immature of you.
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To be honest I'm glad you raised your concerns and so did others as it will allow us to try and adapt/improve the idea as best we can for the community and what is hoped to be achieved. Again if anyone still has any further concerns/queries that haven't been raised on this thread drop one of us a message.
P.S Vol stop posting on this thread and making yourself look more stupid. :-X ::)
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Vol is busy raging at me in Poosy TS cause of Janne being higher than him
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Vol is busy raging at me in TS cause of M.Points
Nah he was raging at me because I cant possibly be irish AND British and because liking wolfe tones = wanting to murder english people ;D
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Vol is busy raging at me in TS cause of M.Points
Nah he was raging at me because I cant possibly be irish AND British and because liking wolfe tones = wanting to murder english people ;D
Then he was raging at Bagins because he removed admin from him
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Vol is busy raging at me in TS cause of M.Points
Nah he was raging at me because I cant possibly be irish AND British and because liking wolfe tones = wanting to murder english people ;D
Then he was raging at Bagins because he removed admin from him
Welcome to a day in the life!