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Messages - Admiral

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16
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 04, 2014, 01:30:23 am »
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http://annies-eats.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/pierogi.jpg

Sweet) This is the polish version though, ukrainian variation's called vareniki and they are boiled, not fried.



But pierogi are awesome aswell, had a chance to taste them in Warsaw.

17
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 04, 2014, 12:27:46 am »
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So you'd rather want a bloody conflict with thousands of dead people?

If Putin actually starts a conflict with Ukraine, it definitely won't be his last conflict, as well as it will be indeed bloody and with dozens of thousands of dead people. Also, Russia has already started the conflicts in Moldavia ( separating Prednistrovie republic) and in Georgia ( separating Abkhazia and South Osetia), and is believed to have "helped" Armenia and Azerbajdzhan to start fighting each other because of Nagorny Karabah province. Let us not forget the russian position on Syrian civil war - I have a feeling the rebels would have won within a month but for Russia actively supplying the government with weaponry in sake of keeping their military base in Syria and abstract "prestige". What I'm trying to say is that Russia, and namely Putin, are responsible for dozens of thousands of dead people already, and it is unlikely he is going to stop by himself. Hitler never stopped on Czechoslovakia, Austria or Poland, he always demanded more because he was allowed to.

18
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 03, 2014, 10:22:42 pm »
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Yanukovych? Oh no, he made a statement saying he would fight to get back into power, by that he means sucking off Putin for his help.

Back then he meant a political fight I think, as he speficied a couple of times that any military interventions were inacceptable in his opinion.

However, you must understand that our ex-pres doesn't have his own opinion. He didn't have one even a month ago when supressing the protests with brutal force, and naturally he doesn't have it now, being a guest/hostage/puppet of the world's strongest and richest dictator.

Btw, short legal analysis by one of my uni professors is as follows:

"Mr Yanukovych is not the President of Ukraine; therefore, none of his statements have any significance under either Ukrainian or intternational law. By the way, if the legitimate President of Ukraine called upon a foreign country to intervene with its armed forces in Ukraine, such a statement would also be worth nothing because the Constituion of Ukraine clearly demands the Parliament's decision for that."


19
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 03, 2014, 09:25:48 pm »
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Russia sent armed forces to the Polish and Lithuanian border.

Yeah, and carried out a nice ship shooting practice. How charming. I guess that means " Don't aid ukrainians when we will attack them, or else".

20
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 03, 2014, 09:06:03 pm »

21
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 03, 2014, 07:09:09 pm »
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The Budapest Memorandum was signed by Russia too, but apparently they don't see it as binding anymore.

That memorandum is actually a tricky thing, ignoring it could screw the world up pretty much. In fact, the POINT of the memorandum was that we received the security guarantees and instead got rid of our NUCLEAR MISSILES. After the USSR was split we had the third largest arsenal in the world on our territory. Only US and Russia had more. We were the only unique case of the country agreeing for such a procedure. Now, if it will turn out that noone actually guarantees our safety, countries like Iran or North Korea will never, under any conditions, agree to get rid of their nuclear weapons, since it has no point and is in fact dangerous. Meanwhile, more small countries might feel unsafe and become willing to obtain nueclear weapons.

22
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 03, 2014, 06:47:45 pm »
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Thanks. This is pretty major. People can shut up about their 'illegal revolutionary governments'.

If you mean the local ukrainian people, most of them didn't even open the mouth. All local parliaments in the provinces, including the eastern provinces completely controlled by ex-president supporters, claimed they represent the new government. But Russia had a different plan.

23
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 03, 2014, 06:29:18 pm »
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I could be wrong, but wasn't it the Ukrainian government that outed the president and which has not changed its form (so many seats for that party etc)anyway?

Not exactly. It was the parliament, and indeed, the parliament's cast is the same, just that some deputees changed the factions and the new majority was formed. After that they switched to the old constitution of 2004, which made Ukraine a parliamentary-presidential state. That constitution has been illegally cancelled by Yanukovich back in 2010.

24
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 03, 2014, 06:23:37 pm »
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Turkey is a member of the NATO i think that would be the main reason of it's involvement?

Nope, the main reason are the crimean tatars, ex-national majority in Crimea, which were the subject of the soviet repressions in 1940-s. They were all deported from the Crimea, many of them died, and the remnants were only allowed to return home in 1989. Returning home they realised all their houses were taken by the russians who resettled there in 1950-1980-s. Both ethnic groups are quite unhappy with other, as well as tatars are muslims. Many ukrainians fear there might be a russian attempt to carry out the ethnic cleanings in the Crimea ( ukrainians and tatars are in friendly relations in the modern history)
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Admiral, don't count on me. I'm not going to die to protect ones who cheerfully cries 'heroyam slava!', glorify UIA and prefer to choose new governments in riots than in democratic votings. So most of my folks don't want to go on such war.

I can see your point. The only thing I could put in is that "heroyam slava" has lately become rather universal saying, and doesn't link to the УПА anymore, at least not for the ones who took part in the protest. After hundreds of people were shot down or killed, the saying started reffering to them mostly. Of course it is probably going to retain it's old meaning on the West, but the center and the east,where it is being introduced for the first time, will understand it differently.

25
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 03, 2014, 06:08:54 pm »
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Poland would probably get involved, as would turkey, then america and britain, possibly france and germany later, kinda the factions of the last crimean war with a few more.

I'd say that given that Russia will not use the nukes, Turkey, Poland and our army could be enough. Turkish army is 700k and well equipped, Polish is roughly 150k as it seems and well equipped aswell,  and our is around 150, disorganized, poorly equipped but in high spirits and not worse then most of russian units. I'd say we should have had way more artillery though.

In any case, I really hope the military part will never come. Over 100 kia during the street fights of the revolution is way too many already :(

26
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 03, 2014, 05:54:31 pm »
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The lack of sources posted here for 'facts' hurts my soul  :'(

THAT.

Actually, my largest hopes are on Poland and Turkey.

27
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 03, 2014, 04:35:59 pm »
Hah, donations won't help that much, and they're being made already from what I've heard. People have also suggested to open the accounts so that anyone could donate for the army. I do like this idea and would donate, though if they do mobilize me, I'd prefer to personally purchase everything but for the gun and ammo. Specially the boots of good quality, or standart army boots are only good for turning your legs into powder.

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Russia's Black Sea Fleet has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 5:00 local time (03:00 GMT) on Tuesday to surrender or face an all-out assault, according to Ukrainian defence ministry sources quoted by Interfax-Ukraine news agency. "If by 5am tomorrow morning they do not surrender a real assault will begin on units and sections of the Ukrainian armed forces all over Crimea," defence ministry officials are quoted as saying. So far there is no further confirmation of the ultimatum from other sources.

Indeed, that is what they say here. The russian army maneuvering on our borders are supposed to end today and the troops should be sent to constant locations. I assume they might try to use this ultimatum to clear the Crimea and at the same time use their "maneuvering" armies to attack through the eastern border.

28
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 03, 2014, 04:22:20 pm »
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The Russian currency fell 13%, so much that their central bank had to raise interest rates just to keep their economy "stable".. Their entire economy can plummet from not receiving enough foreign investments, so if they do start a war then it will just hurt them even more.  (Yea all global economies are hurting at the same time, but not as much as Russia's right now)  Along with many countries imposing economic sanctions..

Yeah, that steps have turned out to be unexpectably effective at the date, probably because the russian economy was at decline already for the last couple of months. Still I'm afraid that might not stop Putin. That would definitely scare the russian elites and oligarchs, but I'm not sure wether they are independent enough to play against him. Ukrainian oligarchs enjoyed much more independance, but neither of them did a single thing to support the revolution untill the president ran away.

29
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 03, 2014, 04:12:35 pm »
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So, Admiral, as an Ukranian, do you think this really can come to war?

I mean, I, as a Dutchman, have my opinion but yours is probably more relevant.

 Yes, the war is more than possible. I think that two decisive factors here are the reaction of the western countries, mainly the NATO, and the level of mobilization within the ukrainian society. Putin have made the first step, now he is valuating both factors. Depending from the results he will or he will not start the full-scale invasion.

 The level of mobilization is way higher then I could've expected to be honest. The people were extremely mobilized during the revolution, but now they're even more mobilized. Even before the parliament decided to summon reservists into the army, there were queves of people in front of the doors of the military stations demanding to sign them in. Many are eager to fight back whatever comes from the russian side, even knowing pretty well that our army is in ruins and doesn't stand a chance. The russian group of armies that is currently gathered close to our borders for "maneuvering" is of the size of the whole ukrainian army. We also lack aviation, artillery and tanks to some extent, though we're said to have one of the best anti-aircraft systems and staff around. Back in 2008 our specialists were involved in a war on a side of Georgia, ant it is believed they've destroyed over 20 russian airplanes there.

 The level of international support is rather disappointing so far, but I can't say anyone expected better reaction. Most of people still remember 2008 and Russia simply cutting two regions out of Georgia without any serious consequenses. There is also an impression that the russian propaganda is seriously working in Europe and in the US, I've already seen a couple of materials that do fit into their propaganda line and general explanations as to why they are in Crimea. I've also seen comments on the news websites which might have been written by the russian lobbists. This sort of propaganda is widely spread in our part of the region because of being cheap, easy to perform and quite effective. One lobbist can create dozens of accounts and keep trolling and posting from all of them ,suppressing any sound or serious comments from the real users. Another method is DDOSing, a number of ukrainian news sites has been DDOS'ed throughout the revolution, and the strong attacks were noticed today. Unfortunutely, our government isn't wise enough to take some steps in order to counter that, so the public has to organize everything relying on the private initiatives. Whole ukrainian facebook is currently filled with the pleas and requests to reach western/russian resources and  firght the russian propaganda by telling the truth. For instance:



 Overall I start having a feeling there will be a war, as the russian propaganda keeps going, and the attempts to fake protests and local government overthrowing never stopped during four days in a row already. The Kremlin wouldn't spend their time and cash resources on that if they were not preparing to advance. As well as they wouldn't have issed Putin with the official approval to use military in Ukraine two days AFTER the russian army have actually captured the whole Crimea but for the territories of ukrainian military bases, which are still staying there, refusing to surrender and declining the attempts to provoke them to shoot or steal the property and vehicles.


30
Off Topic / Re: Ukraine
« on: March 03, 2014, 01:59:41 pm »
Pff, what a bullshit. All this ukrainian-nazi-revolution topic is completely generated by the russian propaganda. The forces that started and carried out the revolution in their majority have nothing to do with the nazism. Couple of nationalistic organizations took part, and those organizations might have some sort of nazi wings or supporters, but none I've personally whitnessed or heard of. If such groups existed, they'd still be one small drop in an ocean, since hundreds of organizations and movements joined the revolution, from russian liberals to footbal fans from eastern Ukraine. The newly appointed governent also didn't do anything that could've been regarded as "nazi" so far. In fact, they've appointed this man , a honorable head of the largest jewish organization in Ukraine and well known oligarch, as the governor of one of the largest and most profitable regions. Also, the collective of the popular revolutionary internet news and stream channel "HromadskeTV" was invited to broadcast their production on the only state TV channel in the country, and since the cold war with Russia started they're doing it daily. The frontman of the HromadkeTV is Mustafa Nayem, born in Afganistan, currently the most popular journalist in Ukraine. Sounds like typical decisions nazis would make, huh? Also, the revolution was rather international, as well as it's casualties. The first man shot down was the armenian guy living in Ukraine, the second one was a belorussian temporarily residing in Ukraine because of having been repressed at his homeland. At least one georgian died from a sniper, and, though I'm not sure if any russians died, I know for sure that many took part and many were beaten, including not only the local russians, but also people who travelled here from Russian Federation specifically to take part. Some of them explained themselves by claiming Russia will never be free and democratic if the revolution will be supressed in Ukraine.

 Now, talking about nazism, you should probably know that the riot police that is now being praised by the russian government and propaganda, has been accused of nazism and antisemitism on many occasions. At the break of the street conflict some journalists got an access to the closed riot police "Berkut" squad social network community and discovered tonns of antisemit and nazi propaganda like this
Spoiler
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or this
Spoiler
[close]
. The basic direction was that the opposition leaders are all jews and the revolution is carried out by the nazis and organized by the jews or masons from the western countries. The communities were deleted as soon as the press published screenshots and scandal grew large enough. Also, there were two or three cases when the local jews were attacked during the revolution, but two largest jewish organizations of Ukraine published their announcements, claiming that the assaults were almost surely carried out by the pro-governmental mercenaries, since the police refused to investigate them, even while one of them involved knife wounds. All mentioned cases happened before the revolution won. In addition, one of the mentioned organizations released another specific announcement, stating that antisemitis is not spread among the protestors and that the revolution shouldn't be regarded as nazi.

 There are no problems with the public order aswell, at least not in Kiev. I am competely sure since I actually reside there. All public order problems were caused by the police and the small criminals, so called "titushki", that were hired by the people connected to our already ex-president specifically for the provocations and to simulate the public disorder. Many locals think their plan was to use that people for massive slaughter, which had to be used as a reason to introduce the military state, and military state would then be a reason to shoot the protestors down, shut down all TV channels but for one and turn off the internet. Hovewer, the provocations in Kiev failed twice because of the massive resistance by ordinary citizens. For a first time it was kind of surprise, but many reacted, rushing out of their homes in the middle of the night with baseball bats, axes and sometimes firearms, charging down the criminals and catching them. Two of my friends personally took part in the event and their group took seven prisoners, all of whom confessed they were paid for an action. The prisoners dropped bats, metalic staffs and knives, some had rubber shooters and drugs. The latter attempt failed even more. It was way more massive, but people were way more organized this time. Basically ,they used Zello aplication, created a channel for each city district, where hundreds and thousands of citizens were exchanging info. Some were forming groups and car crews to patrol the streets, other were setting an observation points from their windows and reporting any strange activity outside, which was later checked by the car crews that turned out to be nearby. It was basically a local, self-organized militia, and it saved the city from pro-governmental criminals, since the city police and the road police, which back then were still under control of the old government, were COMPLETELY removed from the streets. Thus the citizens had to do everything themselves, and they did, even up to creating block-posts and checking the documents and car content. This way hundreds of criminals were caught and either sent home or sent to police. It was also rumoured that our awesome ex-President didn't take care to pay all that criminals before he ran away, so they had no money to go back home or even feed themselves, which made them try to plunder and steal. I know exactly they were plundering in three districts and even were able to set one city market on fire, but later the local citizens formed and repelled them everywhere. After about three days of daily and nightly patrolling the city was as quiet and safe as never before. Personally I think this city should reduce the ammount of street police and launch some sort of a social programme of citizen militia instead, as it turned way more effective then the police itself.

 The problems with the public order are still to be seen on the east, however, where the russians are trying to justify their about-to-happen armed invasion. Now, when I say "russians", I want you to understand me correctly. Unfortunately, in English one word" russians" is used for a bunch of things, while I mean a specific category of people - the Cremlin authorities. Basically, you can speak of ethnical russians in general ( русские), the citiizens of Russian Federation (россияне), and the ones who support the Kremlin politics (кремлевские). There's a large difference between three categories, since not all citizens of russian federation support the cremlin politics, and far not all russians support the cremlin politics and are the citizens of Russian federation. In fact, it lately turned out that a lot of local russians ( ethnic russians, living and Ukraine and being citizens of Ukraine) are actually supporting the revolution and the ukrainian national state, speaking out loud against any forms of russian military intervention. Many of them are even claiming that in case of the further agression they will join the ukrainian army to fight the russian forces back. In return, even the ukrainian nationalists are positioning themselves as being against the russian state and armed forces, but not against the local or foreign russians. This is a sort of a new thing, since previously many people feared the local ukrainian russians will all support the russian state and rise against us. Now this fear is gone for long and good.

 In terms of separatism now. According to the poll, carried out previous year or at the beginning of this year, the ammount of people voting for separation of their provinces and adding them to the Russian Federation was over 10-15 per cents in only four regions out of 24. The highest rate of 40 per cents of votes was in Crimea, then there were Lugansk and Donetsk regions with smth between 30 and 20, Kharkiv with less then 20, the rest was 15-0 or so, mostly - 5 to 0. Crimea is quite a specific case, since Russia have always regarded it as the zone of their " special interests". Simplified, it means they need a harbour in Sevastopol, since they do not have another military port of that class anywhere else in the Black sea. That is why they were always boosting the local separatism by the means of massive propaganda and russian agents activity. That wasn't difficult, since over 50 per cents of population of Crimea is of russian origin, and many are illegally having both ukrainian and russian citizenship. Basically, the whole area is under russian media screen, they broadcast maximun two or three ukrainian channels, with the rest being russian central channels known for the ammount and quality of daily propaganda. I've heard that since the beginning of the revolution the local government have closed an access to any channels that were more or less independant, so the people just didn't receive enough information. Currently, when the Crimea is completely occupied by russians, they receive even less, as well as we receive quite a few info on Crimea because the occupational forces wouldn't let most of the journalists and streamers in. Either way, you might also be interested to know that the person who has now self-proclaimed himself as a new Crimean prime-minister, is not the most popular politic around. His party took part in the latest local parliamentary elections, winning only four seats out of more then hundred total in the parliament.  Most of the seats were won by the communists and ex-governing party, both using expremely pro-russian slogans and programmes to get massive support in that area. However, none of the communists or old government members seemed to have agreed with the russian plans of intervention, so the Kremlin had to find another politic that would agree for anything. That is how they picked the locat " prime minister", who is rumored to having been a bandit and criminal 15 years ago.

 The scheme that was used in Crimea and is now being attempted in the Estern provinces is in fact simple. They first fake the local protests by hiring and bribing some people to take part, organized the provocations during the protests to show that the cituation is unpredictable and dangerous. Then they" elect" the new leader of a province, who immediately turns to Russia and asks for military assistance.  In Crimea it went slightly wrong, since when the 2k of "protestors" showed up in front of the parliament, they were met by the way larger group of local Ukrainian state supporters and had to give ground. Apparently this is the reason russians had to use their army units to capture the parliament and other important buildings. I do hope that noone belives in completely equipped and armed men being the local " self-defence squads". I live in Kiev, a city with way more wealthier inhabitants, and I've seen the local squards of self defence, but they were never equipped that way. Neither they were all armed with AK-74 and PKM mashineguns. Anyways, two days ago, yesterday and today the same scenarios were attempted in a number of provinces of Eastern Ukraine, namely in Kharkiv, Donets, Lugansk. There were also two completely failed attempts in Kherson and Dniepropetrovsk on the South, where the separation supporters were so few against the Ukraine supporters that they didn't even try to provoke and disperced. In Kharkiv, Donetsk and Lugansk, however, the " protests" were much more serious, partly joined by the ordinary citizens supporting the position. In Kharkiv they broke in the local administration, protected by some peaceful pro-Ukraine protestors, and caused an outslaught, in which two pro-ukrainian protestors were beaten to death and much more people were badly injured. The russian flags were raised above the governmental buldings. It was later discovered that at least some of those people were from the neighbouring russian provinces, and the one raising the flag over Kharkiv government bulding turned out to be from Moscow - identified by comparing the pictures from the spot with a facebook profile pictures. Following the events, the people who proclaimed themselves "new governors" asked for russian support at least in Donetsk and Lugansk, which may now be used as a reason of intervention there. Russian TV propaganda claims people are being repressed and forced to escape in that provinces, which is completely false and makes no sence. Let me just say that the new government in Kiev didn't even change the local governors in that regions untill yesterday, with the new governors being the known local figures too. Appart from changing the governors and, possibly, changing the heads of local police, no other actions were performed in tha provinces, so it was even technically impossible to start " repressing" someone, not saying that nobody would actually do that. To prove the fact of repressions and massive ammount of fugitives the russian channel showed a video from the ukrainian customs station, that was later identified as the customs station on the western ukrainian border between Ukraine and Poland.

Overall, the european and world media and networks are now being filled with the russian propaganda to justify mr Putin's intervention to Ukraine, which, in fact, looks nazi itself and smells exactly like 1938 affair mr. Hitler performed. Both mrs claim their motivation being to protect their "brothers" from repressions in foreign states. If the invasion takes place, however, it will end up with massive casualties and guerilla warfare, since the majority of  ukrainians and other nationalities living here, even regardless of wether they are supporting the latest revolution or not, are against the military invation and eager to fight back. I only wrote all this to make sure you won't be completely filled with the russian propaganda, as the previous posts gave me an impression many of you are. I'm neither a nationalists, nor a nazi, and I didn't even take part in the fighting part of the conflict, though I've been on almost every meeting before the street fighting started and helped with food, clothes and some cash afterwards, and I saw and heard quite a lot of things,and definitely more then you guys had, soI assure you you can believe me.

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