Author Topic: Russian plane shot down by Turkey  (Read 20648 times)

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Offline CAPS_MACLOCK

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #135 on: November 26, 2015, 09:14:57 pm »
*snip*
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 12:17:36 am by MrTiki »

Offline Salcos

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #136 on: November 26, 2015, 09:37:39 pm »
Can't wait to eat all the Turkeys.
I hate it when people pass me a cup by holding on to the rim of it...

Offline Dom_

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #137 on: November 26, 2015, 09:45:36 pm »
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 12:17:30 am by MrTiki »

Offline Dazzer

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #138 on: November 26, 2015, 09:48:16 pm »
NAE AYE BYDAND!

Offline Viriathus

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #139 on: November 26, 2015, 10:30:31 pm »
Back to topic please

Offline MaxLam

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #140 on: November 26, 2015, 10:47:43 pm »
Quote from: Olafson
Also, what I said is that the plane was either ascending or descending. Maybe it was at 6km and it went up to 8. Or it went down to 3km to engage or start the landing process. I don't know. This results are done with the data that you gave us, and I simply calculated with that. I did not check it with other sources on the internet, I have no idea if this is true or not.

But from what you gave us, it makes sense. The Plane was flying at rather low altitudes and speed, ready to engage
Yes it's definitely a possibility. It makes more sense than having a plane flying at 300 or 400km/h. But that remains rather unlikely, considering the context (Turkish warnings), the risks of AA weapons, also considering that you are losing altitude and you should have an increased speed (since the word used is depth we can dismiss the possibility that the su 24 was getting up). All of this remains completely odd and very hard to believe. Plus talking about "depth" for this is still strange, but they are Turks, so...
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 10:50:47 pm by MaxLam »

Offline MrTiki

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #141 on: November 27, 2015, 12:17:12 am »
The only odd thing is that they actually opened fire. The actual situation from the point of view of the numbers involved is completely 100% understandable. Stop making out that it's such a difficult thing to conceive of, when the SU-24 is used for low altitude bombing. Whether or not it was is another matter entirely, but stop acting like it's ludicrous to consider that the altitude of the plane was "only" 3km (assuming the lowest altitude you mentioned) at any given point. And, given that I think we've gotten to the assumption that it was actually more like 6km, stop bringing up AA. It was flying at a safe altitude, and if it was going at a slightly slower speed, it was quite likely that it was doing recon, which is definitely not "completely odd"or "hard to believe". Indeed it would explain both the speed and altitude.

Offline Grantrithor

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #142 on: November 27, 2015, 02:04:35 am »
Who the fuck cares. ONE PLANE. No deaths.

I'd be so embarrassed if I was caught posting something that dumb, people on the ground shot at one of the pilots as he was parachuting and he died. By the way ONE PLANE is worth quite the penny, and it was a RUSSIAN plane. You know, the superpower in the east?

Offline Rejenorst

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #143 on: November 27, 2015, 05:41:46 am »
Quote from: Olafson
Also, what I said is that the plane was either ascending or descending. Maybe it was at 6km and it went up to 8. Or it went down to 3km to engage or start the landing process. I don't know. This results are done with the data that you gave us, and I simply calculated with that. I did not check it with other sources on the internet, I have no idea if this is true or not.

But from what you gave us, it makes sense. The Plane was flying at rather low altitudes and speed, ready to engage
Yes it's definitely a possibility. It makes more sense than having a plane flying at 300 or 400km/h. But that remains rather unlikely, considering the context (Turkish warnings), the risks of AA weapons, also considering that you are losing altitude and you should have an increased speed (since the word used is depth we can dismiss the possibility that the su 24 was getting up). All of this remains completely odd and very hard to believe. Plus talking about "depth" for this is still strange, but they are Turks, so...

Well you said yourself the alt of manpads is 4km so 6 should be fine. There's no real need to fly at supersonic speeds. 600 - 700km/h will be enough at a height of 6km to make leading extremely difficult for any small arms of which most only have a range of 2km. If DCS is worth 2 cents as an indicator then its not an unusual speed to go by (600km/h - 700) especially if checking for ground targets. Maintaining supersonic speeds in high air density is extremely resource inefficient given the air friction working against you and the amount of engine thrust you have to maintain to hold the speed. Hence the wings can fold back for the SU-24 to offer less air resistance.

The 300 - 400km/h would indeed be unusually slow but then I am using what the press said in regards to distance and time and I am pretty sure the press is getting it wrong. Olaf's interpretation makes much more sense and uses both measurements.
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Offline William

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #144 on: November 27, 2015, 06:07:54 am »
I've been on "that section" of YouTube recently and I'm sorta convinced that the U.S is arming ISIS and extremist fighters in the Middle East. It all sort of makes sense with the whole global banking conspiracy and the gold standard that Libya and Syria threatened to do. How else do tons of random arms drops just happen to drop into the middle of ISIS held territory. Not to mention the fact that people like John McCain literally want to arm rebels 24/7. If they're not trying to put boots on the ground then they're trying to give weapons to 'rebels'.

I guess on a more serious note, Turkey is like the kid that no one really wants to accept as part of their group so Turkey went and did some really stupid shit to try and impress their NATO friends. In the end they went and poured a match on a bunch of gas and it's about to engulf them.

On a more random note, this is really brewing up to be quite the conflict. Iraq is asking for Russian bombing of ISIS, Russia has already caused mass desertion rates among rebels, the Syrian army is pushing back the 'Free Syrian Army of the United States' and Iran is poised to send troops to aid Assad. I honestly can't wait to see what stupid things the Obama administration will try and do to 'fix' this. Guess I better turn on Fox News and CNN to see the latest, unbiased, information regarding the event.
Check out my YT channel where I post NW www.youtube. com/c/CluelessWill
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i always get an erection when i check my subscrptions and see that phresh cluelesswill vid
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Offline Rejenorst

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« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 06:58:49 am by Rejenorst »
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Offline MaxLam

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #146 on: November 27, 2015, 09:28:13 am »
Quote from: Olafson
Also, what I said is that the plane was either ascending or descending. Maybe it was at 6km and it went up to 8. Or it went down to 3km to engage or start the landing process. I don't know. This results are done with the data that you gave us, and I simply calculated with that. I did not check it with other sources on the internet, I have no idea if this is true or not.

But from what you gave us, it makes sense. The Plane was flying at rather low altitudes and speed, ready to engage
Yes it's definitely a possibility. It makes more sense than having a plane flying at 300 or 400km/h. But that remains rather unlikely, considering the context (Turkish warnings), the risks of AA weapons, also considering that you are losing altitude and you should have an increased speed (since the word used is depth we can dismiss the possibility that the su 24 was getting up). All of this remains completely odd and very hard to believe. Plus talking about "depth" for this is still strange, but they are Turks, so...

Well you said yourself the alt of manpads is 4km so 6 should be fine. There's no real need to fly at supersonic speeds. 600 - 700km/h will be enough at a height of 6km to make leading extremely difficult for any small arms of which most only have a range of 2km. If DCS is worth 2 cents as an indicator then its not an unusual speed to go by (600km/h - 700) especially if checking for ground targets. Maintaining supersonic speeds in high air density is extremely resource inefficient given the air friction working against you and the amount of engine thrust you have to maintain to hold the speed. Hence the wings can fold back for the SU-24 to offer less air resistance.

The 300 - 400km/h would indeed be unusually slow but then I am using what the press said in regards to distance and time and I am pretty sure the press is getting it wrong. Olaf's interpretation makes much more sense and uses both measurements.
Olafs's interpretation is that the plane lost altitude (or increased in altitude, which is a possibility that I dismiss for the reasons explained above), so basically it would have been at 3600m at the exit point of the border. In this case, indeed, the plane would have been flying at 600km/h, which is still very slow, probably to bomb a target at the other side of the border. In this case, the plane would be flying at low altitude and very low speed. That seems completely unlikely for the reasons already given. Moreover, it relies on the interpretation that "depth", in this letter, means altitude, which is odd in itself.

However, if you consider that the plane remained at 6000 meters, then it couldn't be flying at 600 km/h, but either around 300km/h or 400km/h as we said above.

Data comes from the leaked Turkish letter to the United Nations.

Offline Rejenorst

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #147 on: November 27, 2015, 11:50:55 am »
I see your point. Maybe the length is just the distance covered and the depth the furthest distance penetrated north of the southern tip. Or the height during penetration.

Assuming the Turkish government didn't just bs altogether in their letter:

It could have penetrated the airspace at 2.188708km depth and then climbed to 6km. in which case speed would be lower without afterburners. The plane itself was shot down at 6km height. It could have reached that height at any point in the journey after penetration. 

Alternatively if measure the distance of 2.18km (1.36miles) from right to left on the southern tip and then check the highest point Y coordinate that it reached to the lowest point Y coordinate of the southern tip then it comes to roughly 1.85km (1.15 miles). So the plane penetrated Turkish airspace to a depth from South to North of about 1.85km.

As for speed. 600km is not slow it just depends on what your doing. If your constantly changing altitude or checking for ground targets, climbing in altitude etc...

Also interesting map:
http://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2015/26-november-s400-on-hmeymim-airbase-in-syria-
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 11:56:27 am by Rejenorst »
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Offline Liman von Sanders

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #148 on: November 27, 2015, 05:27:06 pm »
>Erdogan
>Oil
>Supporting DAESH.
>remuv kebap
>Putin will rekt kebabs.

√Middle east mission completed by Keyboard Military Forces.


Offline Nick Lazanis

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Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« Reply #149 on: November 27, 2015, 05:30:47 pm »
Erdogan is a dictator.