16
Off Topic / Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« on: November 26, 2015, 03:35:13 pm »
Yep from the point of entry.
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17
Off Topic / Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« on: November 26, 2015, 03:29:17 pm »
Well according to radar image the plane flew North-West across T airspace so maybe the depth and length was provided. Makes more sense.
18
Off Topic / Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« on: November 26, 2015, 03:24:15 pm »
^ Could be this yeah.
19
Off Topic / Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« on: November 26, 2015, 03:10:05 pm »
You said 2.19km but Turks said "a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles in length". Basically, it means that they moved on 1.15 miles inside, which represented a "depth" of 1.36 miles from the southern border. 1.15 miles = 1.8 kilometers. So this is even slower and corresponds, as I said, to roughly 300 km/h. "Unusally slow" would be more than a euphemism.
Turkey's ambassador to the United Nations Halit Cevik said in a letter to the Security Council that two planes were involved, one of which was shot down while the other left Turkish airspace. He said both had flown 1.36 miles (2.19 kilometers) into Turkish airspace for 17 seconds from 0724 GMT Tuesday.
http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/93513-151125-us-believes-russian-jet-exploded-in-syrian-airspace-official
Spoiler
As you said, the SU-24 was designed for low altitude cruising, however you forgot to mention this: "at supersonic speeds [...] in order to traverse enemy air defenses."
[close]
Which still doesn't provide us with a min cruise height.
Quote
So I'm not sure that the unfolded wings prove anything. At which speed do they usually unfold? Moreover, the plane was apparently getting up, and not down, so it's very well possible that the pilots unfolded after the hit as they tried to keep flying.
Wasn't there only a single hit from an AIM-120? As for wings. Supersonic would imply 1,235km/h >=
By this time, Soviet designers were lagging significantly behind their American counterparts who had put the state-of-the-art F-111 aircraft into the skies eight months earlier. The U.S. aircraft had a variable-sweep wing ("swing wing"), which could be adjusted backward for supersonic flight and then returned to its original wide-angled position for slow speeds. This allowed the plane to combine high-altitude supersonic flight and stable low-altitude flight while carrying a heavy bomb load.
http://rbth.com/defence/2015/04/20/the_su-24_attack_interceptor_jack_of_two_trades_master_of_both_45379.html
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As for the stingers, apparently you saw the "range" which is different from the altitude. The max altitude of the stinger is 3500 meters.
See there:
http://www.armyrecognition.com/united_states_american_missile_system_vehicle_uk/stinger_fim-92_fim-92a_man_portable_air_defense_missile_system_manpads_technical_data_sheet_picture.html
No problems in which case 6km should be safe.
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Otherwise the MH17 could have been destroyed by any Russian manpad.
Well it flew 10km > afaik
20
Off Topic / Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« on: November 26, 2015, 02:38:50 pm »
No it doesn't matter at all. We were just discussing manpad proliferation and safe altitudes.
21
Off Topic / Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« on: November 26, 2015, 01:48:31 pm »
There's multiple sources on optimal commercial aircraft cruising altitudes being around 28,000 - 33,000 feet and higher for efficient fuel consumption.
http://www.fearofflyingphobia.com/flysohigh.html
In terms of military aircraft I am less knowledgeable but apparently the SU-24 was designed for lengthy low altitude cruising according to wiki and Sukhoi:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-24
No optimal or min alt is given for cruising though.
In regards to the manpad your source claims that the min altitude that is safe to fly is 4.5km it seems. I was under the impression stingers had twice that range? Your source also quotes the Syrian army stating that the stingers where captured from their own forces so they should know roughly how many are in circulation or have been in circulation.
In terms of aircraft speed the SU24 won't stall at 700km/h. Whether it was flying at that speed I don't know as I am not sure what their minimum combat speed is for ground operations. 2.19km / 17 * 60 * 60 however places the plane at unusually low speeds.
I should point out though that the faster you go prior to a combat run the longer it takes to turn. The airport alone is apprx 50km away. Flying at 700km/h would result in getting back within 4 minutes and 14 seconds so its not a slow speed. No point going supersonic if you need to slow down and turn at a moments notice then line up with the target. The biggest evidence that we have that it wasn't going supersonic is that its wings weren't folded back.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3331558/Turkey-shoots-fighter-jet-Syrian-border-Local-media-footage-flaming-plane-crashing-trees.html
http://www.fearofflyingphobia.com/flysohigh.html
In terms of military aircraft I am less knowledgeable but apparently the SU-24 was designed for lengthy low altitude cruising according to wiki and Sukhoi:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-24
No optimal or min alt is given for cruising though.
In regards to the manpad your source claims that the min altitude that is safe to fly is 4.5km it seems. I was under the impression stingers had twice that range? Your source also quotes the Syrian army stating that the stingers where captured from their own forces so they should know roughly how many are in circulation or have been in circulation.
In terms of aircraft speed the SU24 won't stall at 700km/h. Whether it was flying at that speed I don't know as I am not sure what their minimum combat speed is for ground operations. 2.19km / 17 * 60 * 60 however places the plane at unusually low speeds.
I should point out though that the faster you go prior to a combat run the longer it takes to turn. The airport alone is apprx 50km away. Flying at 700km/h would result in getting back within 4 minutes and 14 seconds so its not a slow speed. No point going supersonic if you need to slow down and turn at a moments notice then line up with the target. The biggest evidence that we have that it wasn't going supersonic is that its wings weren't folded back.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3331558/Turkey-shoots-fighter-jet-Syrian-border-Local-media-footage-flaming-plane-crashing-trees.html
22
Off Topic / Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« on: November 26, 2015, 01:18:30 pm »
Its possible that a manpad has been used or captured at one point but so far the notion is that Manpads are not widely in use if at all in Syria.
“The White House has succeeded at keeping Manpads out of Syria since the start of the war because of concerns they could fall into the wrong hands and be used against commercial aircraft in the region and beyond,”
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/us-official-describes-nightmare-manpad-scenario-in-syria-2015-10?r=US&IR=T
Cruise speed is at 10km > this is due to lessened air density. You can certainly fly at higher speeds below that but you will burn fuel much faster and for a bomber that is circling to support ground forces this is not ideal.
“The White House has succeeded at keeping Manpads out of Syria since the start of the war because of concerns they could fall into the wrong hands and be used against commercial aircraft in the region and beyond,”
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/us-official-describes-nightmare-manpad-scenario-in-syria-2015-10?r=US&IR=T
Cruise speed is at 10km > this is due to lessened air density. You can certainly fly at higher speeds below that but you will burn fuel much faster and for a bomber that is circling to support ground forces this is not ideal.
23
Off Topic / Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« on: November 26, 2015, 01:07:26 pm »
6km is out of range for small arms and AA MGs like the ZU-23 which has an effective range of 2-2.5km
Thus far rebels are not known to be using manpads afaik. If the U.S. is smart it wouldn't distribute weapons that could be used against its own air-force or that of its allies.
Flying at lower speeds may be required as a bomber if your attempting to paint targets or find targets.
Also I am not saying it was flying at apprx 700km/h. I have no idea how fast it was flying but I am saying that it can easily fly at that speed without stalling. As a bomber doing a bombing run against rebel targets and at lower altitudes its likely not going at max speed.
Cruise alt is at 10km >
Thus far rebels are not known to be using manpads afaik. If the U.S. is smart it wouldn't distribute weapons that could be used against its own air-force or that of its allies.
Flying at lower speeds may be required as a bomber if your attempting to paint targets or find targets.
Also I am not saying it was flying at apprx 700km/h. I have no idea how fast it was flying but I am saying that it can easily fly at that speed without stalling. As a bomber doing a bombing run against rebel targets and at lower altitudes its likely not going at max speed.
Cruise alt is at 10km >
24
Off Topic / Re: Russian plane shot down by Turkey
« on: November 26, 2015, 12:20:34 pm »Turkey is obviously lying. Sukhoi 24 can fly at 2300 kilometres per hour, which means that they could cross those 3 kilometres in a few seconds. For them to cross it in 17 seconds, they would have had to fly roughly around 700km/h. Why would they do that considering that they were allegedly warned by Turkey?
According to the document sent to the UN by Turkey, they crossed even less than 3 kilometers, so flight speed would have been even slower.
Moreover, if they started warning 5 minutes BEFORE they crossed the border:
- SU 24 were still far from the border.
- They couldn't predict their intentions.
I came into this thread very late so I apologize if I am repeating same old same old.
Max speed of an SU24 is 1,315 km/h or 1,550km/h afaik.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su24/su245.html
It may be able to endure/attain higher speeds on a dive though.
700km/h is probably not unrealistic at lower altitudes. The 1,315 km/h would most likely only be maintained at cruising altitude.
Turkey claims that the Russian jet flew 1.36 miles (2.19 kilometers) into Turkish airspace. So at 17 seconds that would be apprx: 463km/h.
http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/93513-151125-us-believes-russian-jet-exploded-in-syrian-airspace-official
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/17-seconds-changed-world-leaked-letter-exposes-turkeys-hair-trigger-reality
17 seconds of airspace violation is not the only reason the plane was shot down. As Erdogan himself stated:
The Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, said on Wednesday that the Russian jet was in Turkish airspace when it was shot down and parts of the wreckage had fallen into Turkey, injuring two people. Ankara had no wish to escalate the incident and was only defending “our own security and the rights of our brothers” in Syria , he added.
Turkey supports the Turkmen and Russia is bombing them. Problem is it's accused of supporting more than just so called moderates:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-l-phillips/research-paper-isis-turke_b_6128950.html?ir=Australia
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/turkey-cut-islamic-state-supply-lines-erdogan-isis
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/links-between-turkey-and-isis-are-now-undeniable-2015-7?r=US&IR=T
At the end of the day even if the Russian plane entered Turkish airspace; it was shot down over Syrian airspace and quite possibly targeted over Syrian airspace as well after it had exited said Airspace. Russia's response is to increase its AA capability with escorts and ground/Sea AA. This means that every time a Turkish jet now comes close to the Russian/Syrian air border operations Russia will have to decide whether or not it is hostile, poses a threat and whether or not it needs to be eliminated.
Not a good situation to have both sides treat each other as potentially hostile targets.
25
Off Topic / Re: Warcraft the movie
« on: November 11, 2015, 02:27:59 pm »It's based on Warcraft 1, so if you haven't played WoW, you won't miss anything.
Oh awesome
I liked WW1 as well but never got the full game just played the demo.
26
Off Topic / Re: Warcraft the movie
« on: November 10, 2015, 01:02:22 pm »
Really loved Warcraft2, wasn't able to get into Warcraft 3 as much but still played it. Didn't like the WOW series. Especially with expansions of pandas etc seemed to get a tad silly. In any case never played WOW myself so maybe I missed out. Will definitely watch the movie though I really loved the Warcraft 2 storyline.
27
Off Topic / Re: Syria, Iraq, ISIS, and the Middle East.
« on: October 31, 2015, 11:53:57 pm »
But... it was accident 
Aren't they blaming the airline for the fault? <--- I am aware ur probably being sarcastic but I haven't been following up on events so if its being spun let me know.
EDIT:
Oic, Isis is trying to claim cred:
https://i.gyazo.com/11e26086d8ffd621da77b19ed8516df7.png
Aren't they blaming the airline for the fault? <--- I am aware ur probably being sarcastic but I haven't been following up on events so if its being spun let me know.
EDIT:
Oic, Isis is trying to claim cred:
https://i.gyazo.com/11e26086d8ffd621da77b19ed8516df7.png
28
News & Announcements / Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« on: October 22, 2015, 12:32:36 pm »I doubt it will work out well and you most likely end up muting everyone except a few. (Regimental officers, in linebattle case)
As I wouldn't want to hear every single kid near me... But I guess it can somewhat still be controlled/influenced in linebattles.
When it comes to outside linebattles, I would just turn off the feature all together. But that's just me.
Perhaps a quick 'mute all' toggle button would be called for down the track to make it easy to toggle 3dchat on and off client side.
29
News & Announcements / Re: Developer Blog 26 - Alpha Announcement!
« on: October 20, 2015, 10:32:12 pm »
Sepuku confederate style.
Very nice pics
Very nice pics