Poll

What is your opinion on cannabis legalization?

Have it.
19 (45.2%)
Don't have it.
8 (19%)
Only for medical use.
9 (21.4%)
How much cannabis can I hide from my parents?
6 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Author Topic: The 2018 Federal Wide Legalization for the Recreational Use of Cannabis - Canada  (Read 19013 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MrTiki

  • Former Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Senior Madmin EU
    • View Profile
  • Nick: MrTiki
  • Side: Neutral
I wish we could ban people from posting useless instigation which doesn't contribute to topics at all.



Steven many countries had problems with drugs, ranging from the Opium Wars to Legal Highs. Amphetamines post war were an issue in multiple countries, not just Japan. Just because putting draconian penalties on using a substance can remove it from the population does not mean that it's the right thing to do.

If you want a recent example, Portugal decriminalised the possession of drugs recently due to having a massive problem with them. In doing so, they've been able to help users of all substances massively, slash rates of disease and lower crime (including theft etc, even ignoring directly drug related crime). Deaths in the UK from drug use now sit over 10 times higher than Portugal and usage has decreased in Portugal, overall and in 15-24s where UK hospital admissions increased ~50% in the same time frame. Rates of continued drug use also decreased in Portugal since 2001.

I'm surprised, considering that I thought you'd rather have a smaller, more efficient government, that you're not in favour of decriminalisation, given the massive costs related to policing and dealing with late health presentations associated with illegal drug use.

Offline Theodin

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10858
    • View Profile
  • Nick: 71st Guard MEME POLICE
  • Side: Confederacy
Assuming every word of that is true, which I doubt, that still doesn't explain why 1. It's illegal in other countries and 2. has proven to be detrimental to your health @George

Tiki, I hope you're not referring to Steven in any way in your first sentence.

1x NA Duel- Runner up |  3x 3v3- 3rd place (Seadderol Deflatriots) (Ez Money) (71st Guards + Russian) | 1x Duel League- 4th place | 1x Regimental Groupfighting- 1st place (71st)  l  1x 2v2- 3rd Place (Vortex/Theodin) | TNWL Season 2 - 1st Place l 1x 2v2- 1st Place (Theodin/Elite) l 2x NANWL-
 71st, Nr8(LG) l 1x 4v4- 1st Place (RussianFury, Waste, NickCole, Theodin) l 1x Cav Joust- 2nd Place l 1x 4v4-
 3rd Place (Theodin, AsianP, Sleek, Godfried, Lurvy) l 1x 5v5 - 1st Place (RussianFury, Yoshie, Krastinov, Jorge, Theodin - Thanos and his children)

Offline BabyJesus

  • General
  • ****
  • Posts: 12200
  • #1 Cringe poster and lover of Anna Kendrick
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Most Average MVP of All Time
  • Side: Union
Assuming every word of that is true, which I doubt, that still doesn't explain why 1. It's illegal in other countries and 2. has proven to be detrimental to your health @George

Tiki, I hope you're not referring to Steven in any way in your first sentence.
i think he was referring to my post xd
1st NWPC S2(21st)|(1st) 5v5 Draft~NA GroupFighting Tournament  |1st♕Rex's 6v6 Tournament | 1st TNWL S2(71st) | 1st NWL S5 (58e) | 3rd place Sleeks 5v5 (Highschoole DxD)
You are by far the best average player to touch this game.
Quote from: Risk
The BEST average player of all time

Offline George385

  • Donator
  • **
  • Posts: 2601
  • nah yeah nah nah yeah nah
    • View Profile
  • Nick: George385
  • Side: Confederacy
How to spot a pot head ^

Not even. Tried pot a few times, didn't really like it so I stopped. But in those few times, in fact the first time, I realized that everything I was taught in school was a lie, a scare tactic.

Offline StevenChilton

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 1882
    • View Profile
  • Side: Confederacy
Quote
It's not commercially advertised
Neither is tabacco.
Which shows how stupid it is to allow cannabis to be advertised freely, as has been done in the US and as planned to do in Canada.

Quote
you can't buy it over the counter
What do you mean by this?
That you can't buy it over the counter in a shop like you can tobacco or alcohol.

Quote
possession is still strictly controlled
It really isn't.
Herbal cannabis was the most seized drug in the Netherlands in 2015, with cocaine in second place. Cannabis resin was the third most seized. Clearly it is strictly controlled.

@Tiki, the Portuguese example is hotly debated and it depends on what figures you go on. It's largely agreed that since decriminalisation drug use is up, as are rates of homicide despite a wider European trend of sharp reductions. There are also higher rates of petty theft (unsurprising, if you get more addicts you'll get more small crime as people find ways to pay for their drugs). On the flip side drug deaths and HIV infection rates are down. It's a mixed picture and pretty far from the paradise that many legalisers portray it as:
https://fullfact.org/news/what-effect-has-decriminalising-drugs-had-portugal/

I'd also strongly disagree with you over how radical the Portuguese experiment was, because in actual fact Portugal had long de facto decriminalised drug use and the 2001 law merely codified what was already happening on the ground. See second paragraph on page 9 here: https://www.law.berkeley.edu/files/Laqueur_%282014%29_-_Uses_and_Abuses_of_Drug_Decriminalization_in_Portugal_-_LSI.pdf

I'm in favour of strict, enforced drug laws especially with cannabis. The links to mental illness cannot be ignored, especially in young people where the risks are even higher due to effects on brain development. In most European countries the mean age of first use of cannabis is around 15-16. I can't see how legalisation or further decriminalisation helps anybody if the aim is to reduce usage rates. The evidence would suggest the tough approaches of Japan and South Korea are the best at doing that.

Offline Riddlez

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4845
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Riddlez
  • Side: Neutral
so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Raad van State. perhaps a bad translation on my part.
Probably one of the very few old-timers here who hasn't been a regimental leader.

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
You buy and sell it over the counter. How do you think coffeeshops work?

Raad van State doesn't even consist of judges. It's a pretty useless institution anyway.


Offline StevenChilton

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 1882
    • View Profile
  • Side: Confederacy
You buy and sell it over the counter. How do you think coffeeshops work?

Raad van State doesn't even consist of judges. It's a pretty useless institution anyway.

Obviously I didn't mean you *literally* buy it over a counter, more pointing out that's it's clearly not the same shopping experience as buying a bottle of wine.

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Tell me how you think the procedure works. I'm very curious.

Offline StevenChilton

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 1882
    • View Profile
  • Side: Confederacy
Depends on the coffee shop as it differs from place to place-some keep well within the law, others skirt close to its boundary. As a general rule most don't openly advertise the fact they sell cannabis (they're not allowed to under Dutch law, though some fly the Rastafarian flag as a nod and wink and so on) and you have to ask specifically for the menu. They're also only allowed to sell you 5g or less. I don't quite know what you're getting at because this is obviously a strictly controlled product.

Offline George385

  • Donator
  • **
  • Posts: 2601
  • nah yeah nah nah yeah nah
    • View Profile
  • Nick: George385
  • Side: Confederacy
There's a difference between a law that is enforced and a law that isn't. The Dutch Government prohibits the recreational use of cannabis, as does the Government of Canada. But I could walk down the Main Street of Vancouver smoking a joint  in front of RCMP and nothing would happen. Most police in Canada, or in Vancouver at least, tend not to care, despite the law prohibiting cannabis use. The Dutch Police I've heard is similar. Unless you're selling or trafficking large quantities, the police will not really step in. There are laws surrounding how much you have to be in possession of before you can actually be charged as well. In every jurisdiction around Australia, you must have a minimum of 50 or 30g depending on the state to actually have any form of charge pressed against you. Anything above 500g is a trafficking quantity carrying rather severe criminal penalties.

Offline Duuring

  • Duuring
  • ***
  • Posts: 12357
  • Free at last
    • View Profile
  • Side: Neutral
Quote
As a general rule most don't openly advertise the fact they sell cannabis

Good one.

Quote
you have to ask specifically for the menu

....No? You go in, say 'I would like x grams of y brand' and you get it. You pay. Or you ask 'What do you have', or you just look at the signs with all the different brands they have. The procedure would be 0% different if everything was legalized because legalization doesn't mean it cannot be strictly controlled. You seem to think that legalization means it becomes like buying a carton of milk.

Offline Riddlez

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4845
    • View Profile
  • Nick: Riddlez
  • Side: Neutral
Wait... it doesn't?
Probably one of the very few old-timers here who hasn't been a regimental leader.

Offline MrTiki

  • Former Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3079
  • Senior Madmin EU
    • View Profile
  • Nick: MrTiki
  • Side: Neutral
If it was properly legalised and controlled it would actually be harder to get cannabis...

And Steven yeah you clearly have no idea what you're on about.
I've literally never seen a Rastafarian flag. Usually it's Jamaican, pictures of Bob Marley and so on. They're pretty obvious with the word Coffeeshop usually in glaring neon or bright colours. They have to be obvious to attract all the tourists after all. Nobody is the least bit abashed about selling cannabis, they're only discrete about actually acquiring the cannabis in the first place. They're perfectly happy to give recommendations, which will give you different experiences etc.

Offline StevenChilton

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 1882
    • View Profile
  • Side: Confederacy
They don't openly advertise the fact they sell cannabis. Obviously if you go in you'll see weed dispensers or whatever but they don't advertise 'buy weed here'. Obviously coffee shops differ from place to place but that's a fairly well enforced rule.

If it was properly legalised and controlled it would actually be harder to get cannabis...

How does that work? In the US you can order it online and get it shipped straight to your door.

And Steven yeah you clearly have no idea what you're on about.
I've literally never seen a Rastafarian flag.