Author Topic: Let's discuss: Reenacting!  (Read 233276 times)

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Offline zac

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2115 on: June 13, 2018, 04:42:37 am »
Wigs were heavily discouraged but are known to have been worn by soldiers of some regiments during the American Revolutionary war and later period on a regimental level. However it must be understood that it was rather common to have relatively long hair during the 18th century, with it only become shorter as fashion changed during the early Empire period. Therefore wigs were a rarity amonst the ranks as they simply weren't needed. Even the colonial regiment raised specifically for service in very warm Australia had orders for their hair to be worn long and queued until 1807. Indeed many of the aboriginals here thought the men were women apparently :')

Powdered hair was also technically still used until the mid Napoleonic period but was largely reserved for Guard regiments by that stage as there were slightly more important events going on..

And wolff that's correct and is a well recorded occurrence during the American Rev war and also amongst Marines stationed out in Australia etc. It's even recorded, although I can't remember exactly what, that the material used to keep the powder in the hair amongst the Marines stationed in Australia essentially resulted in the hair 'cooking' and becoming stuck to the cocked hat.

Fashion dictates all
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 08:51:43 am by zac »

Offline Duuring

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2116 on: June 14, 2018, 11:06:56 am »
Another reason why I'm not going to do 18th century.

Offline zac

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2117 on: June 14, 2018, 02:45:47 pm »
But hair curls, neck ruffles, stockings, buckled shoes and long tails   ::)

Offline Duuring

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2118 on: June 14, 2018, 04:06:39 pm »
*shivers*

Offline Duuring

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2119 on: June 16, 2018, 09:53:08 pm »
So I had pretty much forgotten, but I actually did some archive research a long time ago on the Nassau regiments in the Dutch army during the Waterloo campaign. I was going through the photo's and there are a few things that might be of interest, so I'll share them here. They are on Nassau or Dutch units, but as the Dutch/Nassau organisation was copy-pasted from the French, I think the findings are generalizable.

First, what I didn't note last time and what immediatly struck me this time is that the mail either consists of reports on unit strenght and equipment, or requests (so many requests) for material. Specifically, axes and shovels for the batallion sappeurs, or 'big axes, small axes, shovels and hatchets' for the normal soldiers.

A request for sappeur tools from the batallion commander of the 5th Militia. Besides axes, he also requests shovels, a saw and a pickaxe
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Request for soldier tools for the 2nd Regiment of Nassau Light Infantry. The numbers are low and somewhat irregular, so I think the regiment (2600 men) already had some equipment but requested more.
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A request for soldier tools for the Regiment Nassau-Usingen. This regiment's 1st batallion arriveda month before waterloo.
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The request asks for twelve large axes, 48 small axes, 24 shovels and 96 hatchets. To give a better idea, that means each company got two large axes, 8 small axes, 4 shovels and 16 hatchets. For soldiers, this would mean around one small axe and two hatchets per 17-18 men, which I presume was the average size for the escouade (squad) in this full-strenght sized batallion. It also means the batallion was send on campaign without any of this gear and wasn't even expected to have this settled until they arrived in the field.

A few days before Waterloo, the 2nd Batallion Regiment Nassau-Usingen arrived and a full report was made onwhat they had. 
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It says they had 112 'Marmites and gamelles', the cooking pots we use. Interestingly enough, they use the French name, and also do not specificy how many gamelles (the larger one with a lid) or marmite (the over-sized pan) they have, only that they have 112 in total. That comes down to one per six guys, or one gamelle and one marmite per squad. So text-book. I love it. Finally, the document says the men had 120 'large bidons' and 666 'small bidons'. Small bidons are the canteens, of the type we use. Large bidons, apparantly (I had to ask Olafson for this) are coffee-pot-boiler-ish items. Again, it comes down to one large bidon per 5-6 guys, or roughly two per squad.

So when we look at one squad of 12-18 men, they would have to divide amongst themselves 2 large bidons, 1 marmite, 1 gamelle, 2 hatchets and 1 small axe. That's 7 squad-items, meaning you'd carry something besides your personal gear every two or three days, depending on your squad's size.

Next, a large document of all items that were either missing or had broken down 'to the point where they could not be used' at the end of the Waterloo campaign, August 1815. The batallion in question is the 27th Jagers, a large batallion that took quite a number of casualties and missing during the battle.

entire document
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first part
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Spoiler
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It's somewhat staggering to see how much clothing and equipment has broken down. The batallion was roughly 800 men at the start of the campaign, and 200 uniform coats are reported missing or broken down. And the list obviously doesn't stop there. 648 shirts, 778 undertrousers, 202 greatcoats, 189 pair of shoes, 424 vests with sleeves, and then a buttload of equipment. Of course, also 600+ leather stocks went 'missing'. What is interesting is that the shakos are specifically mentioned as being of the French model, as well as that I actually don't see the grey woolen trousers the soldiers were supposed to get. It does list 500 linnen overtrousers, but no mention of woolen trousers. Perhaps, they are referred to as 'undertrousers', although the high frequency of lost probably means these were either thrown away or of non-durable material like thin linnen.

I hope many socks were bored off when reading this. Cheers!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 10:03:25 pm by Duuring »

Offline zac

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2120 on: June 18, 2018, 02:42:03 pm »
I feel sorry for the adjutant and clerks  ;D

also in my own studies of British documents I have never come across 'undertrousers' being woolen trousers, however gaitered overalls were occasionally referred to as 'undertrousers' in the post 1790's area but those were made of linen

Offline Duuring

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2121 on: June 18, 2018, 02:57:11 pm »
There's another document of the 2nd company, 2nd Line Batallion that requests 70 pantalons which might imply they didn't have any and they just went with their linnen trousers.

Offline zac

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2122 on: June 18, 2018, 03:20:27 pm »
"but everyone wore grey woolen trousers during the Waterloo Campaign"

Offline Duuring

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2123 on: June 18, 2018, 05:26:41 pm »
Well, I'm gonna be careful before stating they everybody should put their woolen trousers away until an 1831 event, because I know that at least the 7e BvL does a buttload of research. But it does not seem impossible they either never got them or they threw them away in the hot summer weather, at least for this unit. If they threw them away, it should still be on the list of the 27e Jagers as a missing item... So it sounds more plausible they never actually got them.

Everybody really ought to change their freaking cotton trousers with linnen, of course. There's really no excuse.

Offline Vincenzo

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2124 on: June 18, 2018, 07:38:38 pm »

Everybody really ought to change their freaking cotton trousers with linnen, of course. There's really no excuse.

This, so much this.

The problem is the people making the clothes don't even offer the option for linnen.

Offline Olafson

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2125 on: June 18, 2018, 09:47:41 pm »
They just say it is authentic, some even claim it is linen.

Additonally groups do not care much about research or about their uniforms, so they just tell new members to go there or there because it is convenient. Or new members just buy their own stuff and are never told that it is wrong.

But mostly, people just do not care. To much effort I guess.

Offline Duke Of LongTree

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2126 on: June 18, 2018, 11:31:43 pm »
so i have a question where can i get a good french NW uniform ?

Offline zac

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2127 on: June 19, 2018, 02:10:20 am »
amen on the linen. We get ours from the same place as the US Rev War guys (Najecki) and its such a great material, especially for this climate. But unfortunately 99% of suppliers only supply cotton...so you either make it yourself or find really expensive sutlers. It probably also helps that I also do regency stuff but everything seems to forget that linen was what the vast majority of your 'whites' were made out of..and I repeat..it feels so much better than cotton.

so i have a question where can i get a good french NW uniform ?

Hi there, depends on what standard you are after. I take it you are North American? so I might suggest searching here for your closest unit and asking them; http://www.brigade-napoleon.org/ :)

Offline Duke Of LongTree

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2128 on: June 19, 2018, 02:19:35 am »


so i have a question where can i get a good french NW uniform ?

Hi there, depends on what standard you are after. I take it you are North American? so I might suggest searching here for your closest unit and asking them; http://www.brigade-napoleon.org/ :)

lol i dont care about them the american NW reenactors are all farbs also there are no units by me for the south is a cold desolate reenactors

Offline zac

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Re: Let's discuss: Reenacting!
« Reply #2129 on: June 19, 2018, 03:55:52 am »
haha, wasn't going to comment on the state of the N. American Napoleonic scene but won't say I disagree..although some members of the 21e over there have been improving quite a bit. But in that case Olafson or Duuring can probably point you in the right direction.