Author Topic: The General Political Thread  (Read 524470 times)

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Offline Svensson

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4680 on: January 04, 2019, 11:24:45 pm »
312.000 news jobs in December in the US. Trump is on a roll.  8)

Where are the end of the world prophets now?


« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 11:28:10 pm by Svensson »

Offline Sgt.Winters

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4681 on: January 05, 2019, 01:00:41 am »
312.000 news jobs in December in the US. Trump is on a roll.  8)

Where are the end of the world prophets now?


Can confirm, somehow me and my friends got jobs. Economy is on a roll, although I'd like it if we invested into fixing the infrastructure, for even shit that gets done in that section can take years, if not decades.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 01:04:17 am by Sgt.Winters »

Offline DaMonkey

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4682 on: January 05, 2019, 02:48:05 am »
Sonic weaponry to temporarily decapacitate people...

I swear I read that as 'temporarily decapitate'. I thought it was pretty amusing.
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Offline Riddlez

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4683 on: January 05, 2019, 10:16:46 pm »
Sonic weaponry to temporarily decapacitate people...

I swear I read that as 'temporarily decapitate'. I thought it was pretty amusing.

=P PArt of the reason I use it. It's one of these 'fancy slang words' you hear every now and again used by LEOs and military.
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Offline Duuring

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4684 on: January 06, 2019, 12:07:27 am »
If I got a nickle for every time someone working for the militairy uses slang, I'd buy the Dutch army a Leopard tank.

Offline DaMonkey

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4685 on: January 06, 2019, 02:04:34 am »
Sonic weaponry to temporarily decapacitate people...

I swear I read that as 'temporarily decapitate'. I thought it was pretty amusing.

=P PArt of the reason I use it. It's one of these 'fancy slang words' you hear every now and again used by LEOs and military.

I've only ever heard 'incapacitate'.

If I got a nickle for every time someone working for the militairy uses slang, I'd buy the Dutch army a Leopard tank.

And double its arsenal, no doubt!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 02:16:56 am by DaMonkey »
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Offline Duuring

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4686 on: January 06, 2019, 10:55:21 am »
Apparantly we're getting the tanks back. Because you know, they're so useful and cost-effective.

Offline Olafson

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4687 on: January 06, 2019, 01:27:40 pm »
Wait what.

Offline StevenChilton

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4688 on: January 06, 2019, 02:13:17 pm »
Apparantly we're getting the tanks back. Because you know, they're so useful and cost-effective.

???

You can't fight a modern war without tanks. What makes you think they're not useful?

Offline Riddlez

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4689 on: January 06, 2019, 02:19:10 pm »
If I got a nickle for every time someone working for the militairy uses slang, I'd buy the Dutch army a Leopard tank.

=(

Apparantly we're getting the tanks back. Because you know, they're so useful and cost-effective.
If you want to see if it's a good idea to get rid of military equipment, look around you to other countries.
Nobody else is selling all their tanks, so why should we?
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Offline Olafson

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4690 on: January 06, 2019, 02:40:00 pm »
Germany sold like thousands of their tanks and now suddenly wants more again. Its just things that Politicians do.
 "Oh, we need to get rid of half our military, we no longer need it" - 2 minutes later: "Oh, I think we need a larger military, now that the situation has changed"


So, did the NL actually sell their tanks or did they just decommission them and store them somewhere? I never quite understood why a country would sell perfectly fine military equipment. Wouldn't it make more sense to just store it somewhere, in case you might need it later? It costs more than selling your tanks, but it will still be cheaper and faster than buying it all new.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 02:42:45 pm by Olafson »

Offline Riddlez

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4691 on: January 06, 2019, 03:26:31 pm »
So, did the NL actually sell their tanks or did they just decommission them and store them somewhere? I never quite understood why a country would sell perfectly fine military equipment. Wouldn't it make more sense to just store it somewhere, in case you might need it later? It costs more than selling your tanks, but it will still be cheaper and faster than buying it all new.

Sold most of them to Norway I believe. And to some shithole coutries.
It is not cheaper to store them. They still need regular maintenance and the location where they're stored needs to be under constant guard.
Getting rid of tanks doesn't mean you're going to get rid of just vehicles. You are getting rid of maintenance infrastructure, spare parts and storage, ammunition and the whole infrastructure behind that, personnel to operate tanks, training facilities plus staff and logistics, staff capacity.

Just storing tanks wouldn't solve the problem of it being expensive to bring them back. The thing that makes it more expensive than just buying new stuff is that it takes a couple of years to get tanks operational in a unit again. The costs are there.
Also, the time tanks are in storage not being used, they're also not being kept current. If you're storing tanks for 8 years, after you've been using them for ten years already, the second they're going to get out of storage, they will require a midlife-cycle upgrade. That is going to cost a couple of million per tank. No the current construction is much cheaper. We steal everything from the German motorpool and only pay for it if the tanks are deployed.
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Offline Duuring

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4692 on: January 06, 2019, 04:50:54 pm »
They're not useful because we're not fighting any modern wars in which we need tanks. Where will they be deployed? Mali? Cyprus? I bet they won't even be part of the Baltic mission because that's too expensive. There are a million ways to invest that money better instead of buying maybe a batallion worth of tanks.

We sold our tanks to Finland, after a deal with Indonesia busted.

Offline StevenChilton

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4693 on: January 06, 2019, 05:29:45 pm »
I thought big bad Russia was waiting in the wings and the EU had to quickly arm itself with its own military?

If the Dutch can't afford tanks then they can't fight a modern war, so what's the point in spending vast sums on your defence budget? Why bother buying loads of F-35s etc? Might as well just have an Irish style defence force, let other countries come to your defence if needed and spend the money elsewhere. I get you usually go in with other partners, but it makes a lot more sense to hide behind German/EU re-armament.

Offline Duuring

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Re: The General Political Thread
« Reply #4694 on: January 06, 2019, 06:05:34 pm »
Quote
If the Dutch can't afford tanks then they can't fight a modern war,

Because tanks play such a incredible big role in all the conflicts we're fighting today, right? No, they don't. We send scouts to Mali, infantry to the Baltic states, F-16s to Jordan and ships all over the place. Tanks would do absolutely nothing and serve purely as a PR-tool. That money can be spend way more effectively. Don't get me wrong, if we would place those tanks in Latvia or Lithuania I'd be all for it. But we won't.

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Why bother buying loads of F-35s etc?

I'm just gonna assume that question is not meant serious and you can tell the difference between the political and militairy reasons to buy a jet and not a tank. Especially considering the sort of missions we actually perform with our military.

Quote
I get you usually go in with other partners, but it makes a lot more sense to hide behind German/EU re-armament.

Even if we get more tanks (because we do have them, a whopping twelve), they're 99% sure going to be part of the Mechanized Brigade, and thus part of the 1st German Panzerdivision. So whether we get tanks or not really doesn't make any political difference.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 06:08:03 pm by Duuring »