US Politics thread

[Duuring]

I assume you've now changed your opinion and the EU Commission should be elected (by majority rule) too right? Its the executive branch of the EU in the same way the presidency is the executive branch of the US.

As the European Commission is already subject to a vote at the start its term and can be forced to resign by a vote of no confidence, I'd argue (as I have always done) that it's already elected in (well, almost) the same way the British or Dutch governments are elected. We do need to expand the powers of the European parliament to be able to fire individual Commissioners.

You could argue for a presidential system for the EU and elect the EU President by popular vote, but I'd argue against such a system anyway.

Actually, if you take a look at how the US system of governance was designed, you will see its functionally more similar to the EU than to an average (parliamentary or otherwise) democracy. Mainly due to the vast expanse of territory and overwhelming regional disparities.

House of Representatives = European Parliament

Senate = European Council with one rep. per state instead of head of state

Executive/Presidency = European Commission - Even featuring an indirectly elected President based on representation of individual states. Fascinating... - designed to focus on national interests whilst allowing individual states to conduct their own affairs otherwise

Oh wow, you mean the European Union looks more like a federation then a centralized state? No kidding.

Who sits on the European Council depends on what field the topic to be discussed/voted on is. It's never the head of state anyway - I don't recall Queen Elisabeth or King Wimlex sitting on the EC.

[StevenChilton]

I assume you've now changed your opinion and the EU Commission should be elected (by majority rule) too right? Its the executive branch of the EU in the same way the presidency is the executive branch of the US.

As the European Commission is already subject to a vote at the start its term and can be forced to resign by a vote of no confidence, I'd argue (as I have always done) that it's already elected in (well, almost) the same way the British or Dutch governments are elected. We do need to expand the powers of the European parliament to be able to fire individual Commissioners.

How is the EU Commission elected, and how is it in any way similar to the UK or Netherlands? Each country nominates a commissioner and the roles are assigned when the heads of government thrash it out at a session of the European Council. There is no democratic control over who gets nominated-the last three British Commissioners haven't been elected to anything ever (not even a local government council). Minus MEPs in the EU Parliament (strangely the only parliament in the world that doesn't have the power to make laws, so technically it's not actually a parliament) no EU official is elected, either directly or indicrectly. I mean which electorate voted for Donald Tusk to be President of the European Council? He only got the job because he was so unpopular back home as Prime Minister of Poland that he was about to lose the upcoming general election and bailed out just in time. How is any of this democratic?

[Duuring]

The Commission President as well as the entire Commision has to be approved by majority vote in the European Parliament. Maybe elected isn't the proper word, but there is democratic control. Besides, the nominees are nominated by their respective elected governments. They don't appear out of the blue.

The European Council is not democratic and it never was supposed to be. Maybe it should be abolished, maybe it shouldn't - while not as democratic as electing senators to a European Senate, it gives the member states a stronger, quicker and more direct say into the European Union. I do not claim to hold all the answers.

Yes, we need to give the European Parliament the power of initiative as well. And with the UK leaving us, maybe we actually be able to achieve that.

[StevenChilton]

The Parliament just rubber stamps-they can either approve the entire Commission or reject the entire Commission, there's no room to reject individual appointees. Almost as if it was deliberately designed that way, huh? So the truth is the electorate don't get a direct say over who runs the Commission, can't remove them from office, and as such the Commissioners are unaccountable to the ballot box.

No wonder EU Commissioners brazenly come out with statements like this, though at least they're being honest: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/i-didn-t-think-ttip-could-get-any-scarier-but-then-i-spoke-to-the-eu-official-in-charge-of-it-a6690591.html

[AP0CALYPS3]

I don't think you can defend the EU commission despite it not being a direct democracy, while also going after the EC for not being a completely direct democracy despite it being far more direct in comparison

Oh well tho

Whether or not the EU is democratic is not US politics

That is more suited for the UK politics thread

[Olafson]

I never said that the EU is doing better. I just think that the US should have a different system. But then again, I am not an US citizen, so I shouldn't have anything to say about it.

[Duuring]

You can remove them from office by removing the entire commision from office. Yes, we should add the ability to fire individual commissioners, but now you're just saying things which aren't true.

There is also quite a lot of negioations during the approval. It's not a rubber stamp process.

[AP0CALYPS3]

You can remove them from office by removing the entire commision from office. Yes, we should add the ability to fire individual commissioners, but now you're just saying things which aren't true.

There is also quite a lot of negioations during the approval. It's not a rubber stamp process.

Wow Duuring that is OFF TOPIC

I demand a warning

[StevenChilton]

*Snip* Go off topic again and you'll receive a formal warning
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 01:24:38 am by StevenChilton (FSE Head Moderator)»

[AP0CALYPS3]

Repeated off topic posts by Duuring. Why isn't he muted? smh

Purposefully derailed US politics thread

[Olafson]

Hold on let me ban him. We cat avatar guys have to stand together.

[Heist]

Hold on let me ban him. We cat avatar guys have to stand together.

jim avatar guys are better than cat avatar guys

[AP0CALYPS3]

Hold on let me ban him. We cat avatar guys have to stand together.

jim avatar guys are better than cat avatar guys

do you want a race avatar war?

[Olafson]

Hold on let me ban him. We cat avatar guys have to stand together.

jim avatar guys are better than cat avatar guys

Not true. It is scientifically proven that cat avatar guys are better.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/11/why-cat-avatar-guys-are-better-than-jim-avatar-guys/

[Heist]

Hold on let me ban him. We cat avatar guys have to stand together.

jim avatar guys are better than cat avatar guys

Not true. It is scientifically proven that cat avatar guys are better.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/11/why-cat-avatar-guys-are-better-than-jim-avatar-guys/

Nock who is a jim avatar guy made that post because he is a scientist and then deleted it to troll you, you fell for it. If you click the link it clearly no longer exists.