US Politics thread

[AP0CALYPS3]

Trump is more of an independent than anything

But even if he isn't, I don't really care about party  affiliation. As long as he does what he truly believes will make America great again.

I would have happily accepted Bernie as well, even though I don't agree with his policies. Because at the very least, he would be trying to make change. The type of change Obama promised but never delivered on.

[Karth]

Again not saying we shouldn't change it, but there were over 3000 counties that voted for Trump, comparative to only over 50 for Clinton (which included obviously every major city).  Small towns and rural America wanted to be heard, and look at it this way, if the electoral college was fully destroyed; candidates would literally only campaign and care about cities and their votes, there would be no need to care about campaigning in the other thousands of counties; or for that matter give a damn about those constituents. 

[Thunderstormer]

Again not saying we shouldn't change it, but there were over 3000 counties that voted for Trump, comparative to only over 50 for Clinton (which included obviously every major city).  Small towns and rural America wanted to be heard, and look at it this way, if the electoral college was fully destroyed; candidates would literally only campaign and care about cities and their votes, there would be no need to care about campaigning in the other thousands of counties; or for that matter give a damn about those constituents.

I disagree somewhat,   Wining the rural vote or a good chunk of it is key to winning my state.  Even Obama said so the other day.    That can be similar across the nation.   but yes, major cities(not necessarily states) would have a larger effect on the vote count and get more attention.  How blue they are is debatable. I would imagine there are a fair amount of people nation wide who don't vote because they feel their vote doesn't mean(or have the chance to) anything in the EC.  Even rural counties can go blue, or less red.

Now i would agree states with smaller pop would more than likely be ignored.(as in the candidates wont spend much time there.)  Granted some of those states are so blue or red that they weren't really worth going to now either.  At the same time, we seen how a few thousand votes here and there are enough to put someone over the edge.(like PA)   Which means that getting every vote out of small states would be great in those close elections. 

I would imagine if the EC is ever changed, it is to make it so votes are proportional based on % of the Pop who voted for any one candidate.(tho this is left to the states normally.  not sure how it would come across if the US decided to change how states vote)  I don't really see it ever being scrapped.    At the same time, i cant see anything really being done either in general. 

[Olafson]

I don't know, but to me it just doesn't seem logical. Sure Hillary only had 50 counties, but it happened that in these 50 counties, there are more people than in the 101010 remaining ones. In that sense, Hillary won.
The vote is supposed to (in my opinion) represent the people, and not the counties. More counties does not necessarily mean more people. The people should decide the vote, not a county.


In the end it all comes down that at the moment it makes (more or less) sense to have the system like it is right now. But in my opinion the states are too separated. They act almost like independent countries, but when you look at it closer, they are not. It is very weird.

[Duuring]

There are also counties with literally a hundred voters. County-count is a bad argument.

[AP0CALYPS3]

I don't know, but to me it just doesn't seem logical. Sure Hillary only had 50 counties, but it happened that in these 50 counties, there are more people than in the 101010 remaining ones. In that sense, Hillary won.
The vote is supposed to (in my opinion) represent the people, and not the counties. More counties does not necessarily mean more people. The people should decide the vote, not a county.


In the end it all comes down that at the moment it makes (more or less) sense to have the system like it is right now. But in my opinion the states are too separated. They act almost like independent countries, but when you look at it closer, they are not. It is very weird.

The United States is a huge country, in both land mass and population. It just wouldn't work as anything but a federation. Running the US like a Unitary State would be like trying to run the EU as a Unitary State. Completely ignoring our history and how we began as a loose confederation of states, it iis just, quite simply, too big for a Unitary State to work. The easy fix to this is to give State governments a great deal of autonomy so they may better suit the needs and wants of each particular region. It allows the country to really deal with things on a case by case basis rather than having to use large, sweeping legislation in all cases. The Electoral College works under similar logic, allowing States to decide what best suits their needs. It is not a completely direct democracy, but I think it is the best system for the country.

[junedragon]

But in my opinion the states are too separated. They act almost like independent countries, but when you look at it closer, they are not. It is very weird.

Ive always found it funny that eu's grapple with the concept of the United States' federalist system.

Study US history a bit. It seems that way because it IS that way. From the outset, the US was designed to be a Union of nominally autonomous states under a federal government with limited powers.

Ironically its the same liberals that for years have cried for MORE powers to be centralized to the federal government now whining that the republicans will have too much power federally.

The States' rights that you and people like gluk have wanted eroded for years would have prevented all the issues with the current freakout about Trump, as states like California would have had more power to self govern to the benefit of their democrat majority.

The left was super happy with a ever larger government when it suited them. They made their bed and now theyre gonna lie in it.

[Duuring]

The Electoral College works under similar logic, allowing States to decide what best suits their needs

But the 'states' do not decide. The parties do.

Also, gotta love that decentralized structure: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-wesson-immigration-advocate-20161117-story.html

[junedragon]

The Electoral College works under similar logic, allowing States to decide what best suits their needs

But the 'states' do not decide. The parties do.

Also, gotta love that decentralized structure: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-wesson-immigration-advocate-20161117-story.html

A municipal government pretending they have any power whatsoever on the subject of immigration. Thanks for the laughs.

[Duuring]

Can they legally oppose it? Probably not. However, they can make it incredibly difficult, sue them at every corner, use political influence to rally and organize opposers and refuse to let municipal services aid them - such as the police or even the National Guard if the state opposes it. Trump willl, if such a thing happens, have to federalize the National Guard to kick out the mexicans, which creates some unwanted historic frames.

[BabyJesus]

What's so wrong about deporting illegal immigrants who have a criminal history?

Also i don't think the electoral college will ever disappear. In order to change the constitution you need like 3/4 of the states to agree. I don't see smaller/rural states doing that

Trump won 32 states. Hilary won 18 and DC

[junedragon]

Apple investigating shifting manufacturing to the US in the wake of Trump win.

ITS GONNA BE YUUUUUUUUUGE

[Siwi]

Want to make your city a sanctuary city? Kiss your funding goodbye

All trump has to do is tell them as long as they house illegals, no more federal monies

[AP0CALYPS3]

Exactly

It's like when Mexico says they aren't paying for the wall.

We have them by the balls and they know it

[Olafson]

My point is that you either should have a centralized government that governs all of the US, or have it split enough to actually matter. Right now it is both at the same time, which just does not make any sense.