BoP: Napoleonic Wars (Out-of-character Thread) [Live]

[Volk]

Sigh

All plans past this point will be considered late

Edit: I would like to propose 2 amendments to the rules:

- Change 1 is a new rule regarding the deadline of plans. There still wouldn't be a deadline for plans, however after a certain period of time (minimum 1 week) for every day a player fails to send in their plans their plans are delayed in game by 1 week. So if a player spends 10 days before finally sending plans, the plans actually go into effect 3 weeks into the update. Etc etc. Ignore the details, just the general idea of a delayed plan implentation penalty for delaying of sending plans.
- Change 2 is regarding espionage. Not even 5 people have sent me their plans, however already I count nearly 10 acts of espionage. Should there be sort of cap or limit to espionage targets, acts, etc? Like only 1 espionage act per turn, or only 1 target of espionage per turn.

I also implore all of you to work on your communication. Not just between myself & you all, but between yourselves. I have spoken to only 3 people in the past 2 weeks regarding the BoP, & I'm not only counting being contacted about plans. From even the most mundane questions to confirmation of ideas to simple "I'll be gone these days, if my allies say so then do so" only about 3 people have contacted me at all. I notice as well that even players that are supposed to be allies & planning together aren't even on the same page sometimes, or assumptions are made. The game will progress as smoothly & quickly as you all want it to. I can't really do anything other than wait continually for plans (& oh how I still wait).

I'm tired & I can't think of an ending, so I'll just say thanks in advance. I've been working on a few side projects & side forum games for future experimentation to keep myself busy, so I also would greatly appreciate it if you all could give me insight on certain things in the future should I ever ask. Like I said, thanks in advance.

[Theodoor]

I like the amendments, you've got my support!

[Volk]

I've now finally received plans from all the major powers and the minor nations. I will now focus my attention towards the very belated update, so if you have any changes to your plans at all get them in by the end of Wednesday night. Update will be Friday-Saturday, I'm shooting for Friday.

Just so everyone knows, plans submitted after 21 October 2016, 23:15:39 will still have the late penalty, ie in game circumstances will happen that will cause the implementation of a player's plans to be implemented late. I'm shooting for under 1 month (as in weather or messenger being shot etc causes plans to be delayed by less than or equal to 1 month). This will be upheld unless unanimous or near unanimous player support for a delay of the new Late Plan rule is shown on this thread.

I implore you all to communicate more effectively with each other and me. Being kept in the dark helps nobody.  Thank you in advance

[Furrnox]

Changing rules in-between updates is a bit silly changes should be implemented after an update not during one imo.

[BabyJesus]

Changing rules in-between updates is a bit silly changes should be implemented after an update not during one imo.

i agree. It should apply from now on. I'm sure if people knew about the penalty they would never have been late in the 1st place

[Emperor Napoleon]

Changing rules in-between updates is a bit silly changes should be implemented after an update not during one imo.

I agree, but since it's taken this long for people to send in plans it doesn't really matter

[Volk]

I am currently doing all of the espionage actions and moves. Everybody who sent me their plans before the date I assigned as late will be able to edit their plans according to the results of their espionage with no penalty. Those who sent me their plans after the date will also be able to send me edits to their plans according to the espionage results, however their plans will remain with a penalty; however, the penalty will be applied as if the edits were the original late plans, so there's no added penalty for editing your late plans.

I might change my previous proposal regarding a new Espionage rule.

[Ted]

I am currently doing all of the espionage actions and moves. Everybody who sent me their plans before the date I assigned as late will be able to edit their plans according to the results of their espionage with no penalty. Those who sent me their plans after the date will also be able to send me edits to their plans according to the espionage results, however their plans will remain with a penalty; however, the penalty will be applied as if the edits were the original late plans, so there's no added penalty for editing your late plans.

I might change my previous proposal regarding a new Espionage rule.

Wtf? Couldn't you have told us earlier that you can edit your plans after espionage in the same turn?  I totally disagree with these midturn-rulechanges.

[BabyJesus]

I am currently doing all of the espionage actions and moves. Everybody who sent me their plans before the date I assigned as late will be able to edit their plans according to the results of their espionage with no penalty. Those who sent me their plans after the date will also be able to send me edits to their plans according to the espionage results, however their plans will remain with a penalty; however, the penalty will be applied as if the edits were the original late plans, so there's no added penalty for editing your late plans.

I might change my previous proposal regarding a new Espionage rule.

Wtf? Couldn't you have told us earlier that you can edit your plans after espionage in the same turn?  I totally disagree with these midturn-rulechanges.

whats the point of spying if you can't capitalize on it? I've never really used spies but I figured you would be able to edit your plans. Otherwise the spy would be useless

[Volk]

I am currently doing all of the espionage actions and moves. Everybody who sent me their plans before the date I assigned as late will be able to edit their plans according to the results of their espionage with no penalty. Those who sent me their plans after the date will also be able to send me edits to their plans according to the espionage results, however their plans will remain with a penalty; however, the penalty will be applied as if the edits were the original late plans, so there's no added penalty for editing your late plans.

I might change my previous proposal regarding a new Espionage rule.

Wtf? Couldn't you have told us earlier that you can edit your plans after espionage in the same turn?  I totally disagree with these midturn-rulechanges.

?

It's been this way since 1914?

[Ted]

I am currently doing all of the espionage actions and moves. Everybody who sent me their plans before the date I assigned as late will be able to edit their plans according to the results of their espionage with no penalty. Those who sent me their plans after the date will also be able to send me edits to their plans according to the espionage results, however their plans will remain with a penalty; however, the penalty will be applied as if the edits were the original late plans, so there's no added penalty for editing your late plans.

I might change my previous proposal regarding a new Espionage rule.

Wtf? Couldn't you have told us earlier that you can edit your plans after espionage in the same turn?  I totally disagree with these midturn-rulechanges.

?

It's been this way since 1914?

There is NOTHING saying anything about that in the rules. After all I would have expected your plans to be delayed in this turn if you started to espionage in this turn. This way spying someone out takes seriously NO time and you can just get your secret information by magical deus ex machina.

[Volk]

There is NOTHING saying anything about that in the rules. After all I would have expected your plans to be delayed in this turn if you started to espionage in this turn. This way spying someone out takes seriously NO time and you can just get your secret information by magical deus ex machina.

You want me to delay the orders of people who sent me their plans which happened to also do espionage even though they were on time? 

[Ted]

There is NOTHING saying anything about that in the rules. After all I would have expected your plans to be delayed in this turn if you started to espionage in this turn. This way spying someone out takes seriously NO time and you can just get your secret information by magical deus ex machina.

You want me to delay the orders of people who sent me their plans which happened to also do espionage even though they were on time? 

I want to see planchanges delayed due to espionage orders that were given together with the plan. According from what you said it currently looks like this to me:

Player sends plan + a new espionage order at the same time --- Espionage takes NO time, the player just gets magic information for having said "I send spys to xy" without any delay --- Player changes plan, no delays are put in effect and the whole espionage action happened without any time having passed on.

[Volk]

I want to see planchanges delayed due to espionage orders that were given together with the plan. According from what you said it currently looks like this to me:

Player sends plan + a new espionage order at the same time --- Espionage takes NO time, the player just gets magic information for having said "I send spys to xy" without any delay --- Player changes plan, no delays are put in effect and the whole espionage action happened without any time having passed on.

Not all spy actions are "I send spy to D city and bloop". Assassinations, sabotages, scouting & hussars exploring for example I count as "espionage" for simplicity's sake. Regarding travel time, not all spies move from X to Y. Some spies are already in major cities awaiting orders to infiltrate  group, sabotage something, assassinate someone, etc... Which negates the whole "travel time" factor. Or, due to turn ending, they simply are interrupted in the middle of their order and will continue the order into the next turn. So not all espionage deserves a massive time penalty to it.

If I did make edits penalized for lateness for people who sent plans on time, that means I also have to penalize those who sent their orders late. This means those who sent their plans late will receive a penalty for late implementation, then get penalized again because their espionage, which was also implemented late, makes them change their orders which would be an added penalty. So let's say your plans were late Ted. Your spy does his mission one month late & gives you information one month late. Then you send me a revision. Your plans, already a month behind, are delayed another (for example) 2 weeks. So your new plans are implemented a month and 2 weeks into the turn. That's a major disadvantage to anybody (except maybe the opponent you're fighting). I'd rather not start slapping penalty after penalty after penalty on people. We already have the Late penalty & the No General Penalty. 

[Raddeo]

I fully agree with Ted, using spies should (in most cases) lead to delaying of edited plans. Troops should start executing original orders and then, after for example two weeks, abandon old instructions and follow edited ones. That would make much more sense. That would also encourage players to use spies in more logical way, to discover the road ahead of their armies (to make edits possibly small and thus delays possibly insignificant) instead of sending them to the other part of the world and editing orders basing on news received from other part of continent. And even if the spy is already on place, then delivering the news, preparing new orders, delivering them to an army, etc. still should take time. You've once tried to explain me your theory about pace of movement of units and teleportation of spies doesn't seem to fit it

I also think that whole idea of Late penalty is missed. It's all nice and fun when the only thing one has to worry about is math homework, but it's getting harder, when at the same time you have to study, work, prepare your thesis, etc. and of course you have to discuss your actions with several player who all have similar real life duties. One of major advantages of turn-based games is their time-independence. Why would we get stripped of it freely? Personally I don't care if I have to wait a week, two, or maybe a month to see an update. It's just a game, and I prefer to know that both my allies and my enemies had time to prepare their orders in peace, to think of best solutions, than to just play as fast as possible aware, that half of actions in each turn makes totally no sense due to lack of time to prepare them.

But I like the overall idea of limiting usage of spies. But maybe not by strict limit (as you've proposed), but rather by lowering change of success depending on number of used spies? So if you use just one spy in a turn, then probably he will succeed and bring a lot of info, but if you send four of them, then almost surely, all of them will fail. Strict limits are boring, they make game predictable.