BoP: Napoleonic Wars (Out-of-character Thread) [Live]

[BabyJesus]

You're getting 30k, at most 30 & some change. I don't see where you're getting these imaginary 30 thousand standing Bavarians, all of my sources and yours say that the Bavarian army was about 30k & some change strong.

I think the "ghost" 30k you're referring to are the men raised to replenish losses of the Bavarian army. In which case yes Bavaria raised 60+ thousand men throughout the Napoleonic Wars but really the army (as a whole) never cracked the 40k limit. Plus this is all after conquests, treaties, & awesome reforms including conscription reforms that Bavaria undertook, so really at start, January 1804, you're army is about/slightly under 30k. Obviously it will grow/wane following game events. At the moment (start) your army's in the 20-30k range & can grow obv based on game events. This isn't power gaming either, it's just history.

Or you can go ahead and raise 60k or more men ignoring history, at which case don't rage when you lose men & can't replenish because you used up all your manpower. ( Remember we're only playing about 10 years Cough coughEU4 HoI4)

Same kinda goes for everyone. "Men raised" is over the whole period of the Napoleonic Wars, but "King of Bavaria and his 22 thousand bayonets" is that many at that time.

I'm fine with this. But just to make this history-wise clear, Bavaria was running on some kind of conscription-madness where they recruited tons of people although they had only 4 Million citizens. The army was in fact as large as I said, but as you said if they would have lost these 60k they would have had real problems to reinforce.
They sent only 33k to Russia (this number allready has the 1812 reinforcements counted in), but they still had troops left.
At the start of the game Bavaria still is an Electorate anyways and therefore far away from the strong Kingdom-times - but I just wanted to point out the real numbers of the Bavarian army on its peak to BabyJ Doesn't mean that you would have 60k on the start, this would be false indeed.

the Swedish army, at its peak, had 64k. All volunteer if I remember correctly and with a smaller overall population (3.4 million).

I've been actually reading quite a bit if the Napoleonic wars stuff. The whole conversation was just baiting you for sources. You fell right into my trap

[Volk]

So I've made Draft 3 of the BoP map...

I'm glad Napoleon dismantled the HRE. It's so god awful.

I mean

[close]

Seriously?

[close]

Wasn't much better even after Napoleon

[close]

Map Draft 3

Changes:

-Added minor duchies, states, principalities. (Arenburg, Hesse, etc)
-Tried to make the border gore region under Saxony as best I could
-Reduced the size of Swedish Pomerania (I despise cutting up provinces)
-Gave Wurttemburg and Baden more land
-Flipped Bavarian lands to minor HRE states, gave Bavaria (as best I could) Wurzburg
-Took away Saxony's weird province
-Added Prussia's enclave (as best I could, there were a ton of free counties and cities in and around the enclave)
-All changes besides Pomerania were in HRE

[close]

All that's left to do now, notwithstanding any player complaints following the HRE completion, is for me to write up the rules and set up the main thread for game play.

There is one problem I thought of. If we are going to do 4 turns (of 3 months) per year, that means starting from January 1804, say, game end of December 1815, difference is about 12 years, so 4 x 12 is... 48 turns? I'm starting to think that's a bit too little time, considering we had weeks then month long turns in 1914. Idk, should I perhaps do 6 2-month-long turns per year until December 1815, which is about 12 (years) x 6 (turns per year) = 72? Or should we do months, considering some wars lasted mere months in the Napoleonic Wars? Idk, I need input from you all. The same goes for the map as well. I despise the HRE with a passion.

Thanks in advance.

[DoctorWarband]

The more BoP the better imo.

[The Mighty McLovin]

Well, the Napoleonic Wars might last longer in this timeline. No one knows.

Btw, the majority of the Rhineland was not owned by the Prussians until the Vienna Congress.

[Ted]

You're getting 30k, at most 30 & some change. I don't see where you're getting these imaginary 30 thousand standing Bavarians, all of my sources and yours say that the Bavarian army was about 30k & some change strong.

I think the "ghost" 30k you're referring to are the men raised to replenish losses of the Bavarian army. In which case yes Bavaria raised 60+ thousand men throughout the Napoleonic Wars but really the army (as a whole) never cracked the 40k limit. Plus this is all after conquests, treaties, & awesome reforms including conscription reforms that Bavaria undertook, so really at start, January 1804, you're army is about/slightly under 30k. Obviously it will grow/wane following game events. At the moment (start) your army's in the 20-30k range & can grow obv based on game events. This isn't power gaming either, it's just history.

Or you can go ahead and raise 60k or more men ignoring history, at which case don't rage when you lose men & can't replenish because you used up all your manpower. ( Remember we're only playing about 10 years Cough coughEU4 HoI4)

Same kinda goes for everyone. "Men raised" is over the whole period of the Napoleonic Wars, but "King of Bavaria and his 22 thousand bayonets" is that many at that time.

I'm fine with this. But just to make this history-wise clear, Bavaria was running on some kind of conscription-madness where they recruited tons of people although they had only 4 Million citizens. The army was in fact as large as I said, but as you said if they would have lost these 60k they would have had real problems to reinforce.
They sent only 33k to Russia (this number allready has the 1812 reinforcements counted in), but they still had troops left.
At the start of the game Bavaria still is an Electorate anyways and therefore far away from the strong Kingdom-times - but I just wanted to point out the real numbers of the Bavarian army on its peak to BabyJ Doesn't mean that you would have 60k on the start, this would be false indeed.

the Swedish army, at its peak, had 64k. All volunteer if I remember correctly and with a smaller overall population (3.4 million).

I've been actually reading quite a bit if the Napoleonic wars stuff. The whole conversation was just baiting you for sources. You fell right into my trap

Well played I say   

[Nick Lazanis]

Denmark norway had  around 36k troops during the dano swedish war of 1808 according to wikipedia.

[Ted]

However, better stop using wikipedia-articles as source for troop numbers. It's just a no, a no aaaand... a no. See, taking numbers for armies due to the strength of one fieldarmy would be the same as if you scaled the modern British army down to 10.000 men because the British army had 10.000 men during the Falklands War according to Wikipedia.

And especially @Volk: Troops taking part in one campaign/one operation and the actual armysize at the time are two COMPLETLY different things. There are no "ghost"-troops, but troops in action and reserves.

[Bravescot]

And this is why I wasn't hyped to see Volk back. Once again her stupidity reigns supreme.

[Furrnox]

However, better stop using wikipedia-articles as source for troop numbers. It's just a no, a no aaaand... a no. See, taking numbers for armies due to the strength of one fieldarmy would be the same as if you scaled the modern British army down to 10.000 men because the British army had 10.000 men during the Falklands War according to Wikipedia.

And especially @Volk: Troops taking part in one campaign/one operation and the actual armysize at the time are two COMPLETLY different things. There are no "ghost"-troops, but troops in action and reserves.

I'm pretty sure nobody ever said there was any "ghost"-troops?

[BabyJesus]

However, better stop using wikipedia-articles as source for troop numbers. It's just a no, a no aaaand... a no. See, taking numbers for armies due to the strength of one fieldarmy would be the same as if you scaled the modern British army down to 10.000 men because the British army had 10.000 men during the Falklands War according to Wikipedia.

And especially @Volk: Troops taking part in one campaign/one operation and the actual armysize at the time are two COMPLETLY different things. There are no "ghost"-troops, but troops in action and reserves.

what the are you on about?

O wait I see what your talking about.

I still have yet to find anything saying the Bavarian army was 60k strong at any given point. So when volk said "ghost 30k" she was referring to the random 30k soldiers you were adding to their standing army. Obviously, you dont wanna give people double their army size without being able to find anything on those extra numbers.

What I did find was that after Russia, Bavaria raised/conscripted another army (and I think that army lost every battle it was in).

If it said it in one of the links you posted let me know. Because I obviously didn't see it.

Also Wikipedia is a solid source. For everything. No matter teh topic.

[Rhen]

In accordance to the third draft of the map, Württemberg's army size increases from 8000 men to 10000/11000+ men.

[Nightdragger]

I'd like to participate as Portugal. If this is not possible, I'd like to play sardinia

[Commander Bondage]

And this is why I wasn't hyped to see Volk back. Once again her stupidity reigns supreme.

"i killed volk xd"

[Volk]

I'd like to participate as Portugal. If this is not possible, I'd like to play sardinia

Portugal's open I think.

Edit: Looking at my schedule, it looks like the game will be up Friday/Saturday. Map draft 3, unless player complaints are raised & addressed (I'm looking at you HRE), will be the map we use for the game. We also now have all the major nations filled including 2 German states so that's great. I've decided that the previously agreed upon 3-month turns will be used, with each turn being 1 season (I will post the seasons and the months on main thread in the rules). I don't think there is anything else I need to do, & I don't want to make anymore systems besides our simple battle system. However if you guys think something should be changed then say so by Friday/Saturday.

My job is going well & I get paid a decent amount, so I might buy yet another book(s) on the Nap. Wars to help. I also will add a few more great leaders for balance reasons (Nelson).

Thanks in advance for help.

[Furrnox]

I expect us Frenchies will have huge bonuses? I mean since it took almost all the major nations of Europe to defeat Napoleon and his France.
If France isn't OP than what's the point?