Are Germans allowed to be proud of their nationality?

[Hadhod]

As a German in all my life I have experienced that Germans are not allowed to be proud to be Germans. Be it in school, college, holidays or just in the general news or whatever. As soon as you say you are proud to be German you get labelled a fascist pig and people say it's wrong to think so.

Now is my question: How do people from other countries see this? Is it really fair to judge today's people for deeds their great-gradparents and grandparents did?


P.S. I dunno if this is the right section of the forum to post this in. Feel free to move it around, mods.

[Joseph Graham]

I see no issue with having a sense of pride in your country; however, you should be prepared to admit that it has made mistakes. You shouldn't be made to feel guilty/lesser than someone else due to you nationality; judging someone on what a completely unrelated individual did a century prior is idiotic. That said, nationalism is fine so long as it's not in excess/blinding.

Admittedly, my own perception of Germany is coloured due to my experience of the educational system, so as a country it isn't very high in my good books. German people are solid, though.

[Audiate]

I hate my state's (and country's maybe, idk) way of teaching history. It seems like 80% of it is WWII and Holocaust, and the other 20% is US-based. There's such little on World History, and though my school has a world history class, it's not required (which is ridiculous, especially since 2-years of US History IS required).

Anyway, it seems Wilson's propaganda worked a bit too much indeed. A lot of people I know are ignorant of Germans beyond just WWII. A lot of people I know don't even know what WWI was about.

To answer your question, yes, Germans are definitely allowed to be proud of their nationality. They have rich history throughout all of history, even during WWII. Germany, especially in the US (and I assume somewhat in UK?), is depicted still as the "Beast of Berlin". A bit ridiculous indeed.

Be proud of your nationality, mate, it's a great one!

edit ps im not fascist pls no ban liek tav

[ClearlyInvsible]

Honestly? I think that Germany is better off without the nationalism.

Don't get me wrong, I see no problem with the Germans being proud of where they're from and who they are, they have as much reason as anyone else to be proud. You don't deserve flak for it.

But being Nationalistic can often just lead to idiotic problems, like people screaming "Russia over all!" or "'Murica, fuck yea!" just makes you look like an asshole in my book, when you start thinking your nation is better than everyone else's.

But tbh, no, Germans do not need to be unpatriotic. It's unfair to treat them poorly for being so, today's Germans have done nothing deserving the the scorn they receive.

[SeanBeansShako]

Alright keep things clean and on topic. If anything aggressive or needless is posted this thread gets closed. This one only has a single chance.

This is the standard 'we are watching this politically themed thread for fallout' post.

[[91st] Official]

If someone calls a German that's proud of their country or nationality a fascist pig, then they're just being narrow-minded.

[ClearlyInvsible]

If someone calls a German that's proud of their country or nationality a fascist pig, then they're just being narrow-minded.

Pretty much this ^

[Eoin]

I see no issue with having a sense of pride in your country; however, you should be prepared to admit that it has made mistakes.

I wouldn't consider the Germany of WW1 or WW2 to be the same as modern Germany. The way I see it, they were completely different nations altogether.

[Hadhod]

Alright keep things clean and on topic. If anything aggressive or needless is posted this thread gets closed. This one only has a single chance.

This is the standard 'we are watching this politically themed thread for fallout' post.

Yeah I know this has a pretty imflammable character so I understand if it gets out of hand that it is to be locked.

Btw I am not Nazi or anything like that. I totally agree that the WW2 and the Holocaust were some of the worst things humans are able to do. I just find it sad that our country gets reduced mostly on only those things so they overlay other topics we could be proud of, like all the great inventors, scientists, musicians and so forth.

[Archduke Sven]

Well the whole point of 'de-nazification' (a very misleading term for the process), was to basically make Germany uncapable of ever having an aggresive populace willing to wage war. Thus a whole lot of effort was put into removing all nationalistic ideas, i mean you can already see that by making Germany a Federal Republic (Once again, trying to divide the populace into seperate states) to which extent they were willing to go, along with several other long processes of removing all nationalism.

To be fair, i think Germany is better off without nationalistic feelings, nationalism isn't good for any country. Be happy over your economy instead or somethin 

[Herishey]

I see no problem with being proud in either your nation or even your history. A fair few people would agree that many of the things the "Nazi's" did were correct and it can be argued that they were. I am not saying I am one of those people but everyone has their own opinion, you can be proud of whatever you want the same works with being ashamed. Why should a nation no longer be allowed self-pride for the mistakes or actions depending how you see it of a leader. Many nations have done bad things and they are still proud. UK's past is not all of glory yet many of us are still proud to be British. Why should we stop people being proud of where they come from? In my opinion don't judge someone on their views or their ancestors previous actions. Judge them on how they treat people or act towards them.

[Audiate]

Don't mind me, just showing some German badassery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germanic_tribes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Knights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Renaissance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknecht

(I know there's better examples but hey.)

[[91st] Official]

To be fair, i think Germany is better off without nationalistic feelings, nationalism isn't good for any country. Be happy over your economy instead or somethin 

I disagree. I don't think anything is wrong with a healthy level of Nationalism for your country; it doesn't have to be hardcore to the extent where you think every other country is terrible in comparison, however.

[Hadhod]

Overly agressive Nationalism is not good for any country I agree, but isn't at least a bit of nationalitic feeling necessary for people to call themselves a nation? After all Germany is named Germany and not "The Republic of Central Europe"

[Wismar]

You are not alone my friend. Same situation in Sweden. More power to you!