Poll

Do you think TOG boycotting independent tournaments is good for the community?

Yes.
No.

Author Topic: 🦀 Crab meme is gone 🦀 (thanks to V OMEGALUL L U B L E)  (Read 11156 times)

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Offline McPero

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🦀 Crab meme is gone 🦀 (thanks to V OMEGALUL L U B L E)
« on: April 02, 2019, 08:28:58 pm »
Some information is outdated as some changes have been made, but I can't be bothered to fix them.

On the 31st of March The Tournament Organisational Group thread has been posted on FSE forums. It is a group of 4 Head Organisers, organisers, referees, mappers, graphic designers and server providers who are all listed on their thread, but in addition to that they have also team captains which are not listed. Its goal is to prevent spam of low quality tournaments in the community and instead have well timed and well organised tournaments. I think this is a good idea and that spam of shit tournaments is a problem, but I have been sceptical of this group ever since I've heard it exists.

Eventually as I wanted to host a tournament I find out that things are even more dire than I thought they are. As I would acquire more information on TOG meanwhile negotiating with them when I simply wanted to borrow a server.

Here are my points to what is wrong with TOG:

1. It is a cartel group trying to maintain monopoly over hosting tournaments:

What I do not agree with is how this group operates. Something that you will not find on their thread is that everyone associated with this group (names you can find on their thread plus team captains, apparently 10 of them) is automatically forced to boycott any tournament organised outside of TOG. That would cause the tournament to have a really low attendance and would not be considered a community competitive tournament by the TOG. That could cause split of the community one side saying TOG is actual representation of the best community has and others saying that host outside of TOG are. Kind of like in middle ages when half of the time two people claimed to be king of the same Kingdom. Even though it might currently seem TOG with 10 team captains and others associated with the group represent the community what they claim too and think they are leaders of the community they clearly aren't. They might be majority of the competitive scene but even then am I supposed to believe every member of the each team was on board and fully understood what this cartel is? I don't think anyone should have the audacity to think they can monopolise tournament hosting in a community. When one of the head organisers (who's name is written first on the list and that has posted the thread btw) is a forum moderator who has been known for being power hungry at least in the past and when thread says nothing of recruitment of the team captains and boycotting it comes out really shady. And I can with doubt say this is a cartel even though not everyone involved with it might be aware of it. Voluble, Herishey if you wouldn't mind sharing our steam conversations on the forum as evidence for boycotting thingy that is conveniently missing from TOG thread,  that would be great. Else there are other means for someone to find the truth. pm me lul

2. It seriously hinders the creativity of tournaments:

You might think just join them 4Head, you get everything you need, its so easy. To host a tournament under TOG you must take their map, their server, their admins, their rules and you are also given exact date and time when the tournament will take place. I personally was able to negotiate the date because captains agreed on a different date, map and some changes in rules but I am not so sure everyone else would be so lucky. And about the format of the tournament as far as I understand 4 head organisers propose a few tournament types and captains vote on what they want, I believe it is possible that head organisers deny your tournament idea without a vote from the team captains. This means tournaments lose any kind of creativity outside of minds of head organisers. Sometimes you can't know if something is a bad idea until you try it. First groupfighting tournament,  NWEC were made as an experiment by Hekko, nobody was sure that it was a great idea, my point here being is head organisers nor team captains know what is a good idea and what is a bad idea for a tournament.

3. It makes it harder for community members to join the competitive scene and makes competitive itself stale:

Group is a few days old and it has 10 team captains signed. Which means it is likely more captains might want to join TOG. Eventually making it 16 which is team cap for all the TOG tournaments. Firstly team cap is beyond stupid. Nobody will care if you came 10th or 7th, you didn't win so having brackets with numbers of teams that aren't 2^n n€N (sorry disease) is completely okay. Recent tournaments have been 16 teams cap and always full. That clearly implies there is more teams willing to play than 16. So how does one join a tournament when there is 16 captains signing up within 10 minutes of a thread being posted. And these captains also won't be willing to take players in their team that they don't like or think are bad. With pretty much constantly same team captains you get same teams competing in 2 tournaments a month hosted by TOG. Sounds pretty boring to me.

So what do I want them to do?

I want them to change the way they operate in order to achieve their goal. I like connecting of organisers, mappers, referees and graphic designers in order to help each other. But I want them to drop boycotting tournaments hosted outside of TOG and recruitment of team captains. Instead when tournament is hosted they can post on the thread and offer help to the person hosting. Even if they go on with this boycotting cartel they can't completely stop other tournaments, there will be people who won't know about TOG and host tournaments and won't be willing to cooperate with TOG, so you can never fully stop spam of bad tournaments, you can just make them worse by them having low attendance and being kind of irrelevant. So boycotting will decrease them amount of those but so would just offering help and cooperation without blackmailing to boycott. Which method is more successful is debatable. Maybe a example of positive reinforcement being more successful than negative reinforcement is drugs. In Portugal drugs were legalized and drug users were considered patients that needed help instead of being criminals and the drug use has halved, meanwhile we can all see how well sending military in the streets works in South and Middle America.

« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 11:51:32 pm by McPero »

Offline Bagins

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2019, 08:30:34 pm »
I think this thread needs to be ignored

Offline Keita

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2019, 08:31:05 pm »
vol prefers not to speak
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Offline Vegi.

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2019, 08:35:49 pm »
Where is our NW William Wallace????
Stop looking at my posts Fietta #RentFree

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Offline Moi~

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2019, 08:36:47 pm »
Poll should really be "should TOG boicott tournaments" in the first place. Criticism is always welcome, I already expressed how their idea is good but hasnt been well aimed (otherwise we wouldnt even have these points raised up)
padawan should replace chicken as captain, he has every ability a true leader should possess, a good voice, skill, experience & dedication. Padawan has all of these things and the only reason he wasn't allowed into team spain was cause chicken was afraid of him since he truly knew how much of a danger padawan could be to his spot.
padawan is no padawan any longer, he is a MASTER now and i would be AFRAID to fight him with team NL since he can 1v10 us easily!
#justice4padawan

Offline Rikkert

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2019, 08:39:21 pm »
If all groupfighting captains are on board, then what is the problem???

Offline Golden.

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2019, 08:41:41 pm »


Nice meme btw good effort :)

Offline Shadey

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2019, 08:44:13 pm »
ok

Offline Voluble123

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2019, 08:45:15 pm »
If all groupfighting captains are on board, then what is the problem???
Because McPero from year 934AD who has teleported into modern day says so
h0w mush chug kud a chug chung chung if a chug chung kud chung chug?

Offline Herishey

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2019, 08:46:18 pm »
I already spoke to both you and Chicken yesterday and eventually came to the conclusion with him that as I said to you both we'd be willing to let you use your own everything except for certain rules, referee's and a date (within a week) so that it sticks to the same schedule. In terms of forcing upon you a map as I said we just want to see your map first so that we can see it's reasonable and not too large, too small or anything like that as we had a lot of complaints about this over the last year.

We said nothing on the thread about the team captains or anything like that because it wasn't needed. Of course before we do anything like this we'd consult team captains first. If they didn't want it then we wouldn't have done it or been able to make the idea successful so there was no need to put it on the thread as they're not part of the actual group that host and maintain the tournaments. They simply vote on which tournaments they'd like to see each month (so in terms of limiting creativity that's not really true since captains can vote for whatever tournament they want each month).

The issue with the discussion I had with you McPero is you weren't willing to negotiate you wanted everything to be yours and wouldn't let us help at all, as I concluded in my conversation last night with Chicken. Before we even made this group it was discussed openly on two different FSE posts so it was hardly private and we also had a meeting with around 30-40 people on TS, not all of which are involved directly or are even team captains where we outlined everything including boycotts so again this was never a secret nor was it hidden, private or even shady like you are implying. 

In regards to the point about team caps as well that's just pure shit and shows how inactive and unaware you are of the community currently. We've never had backup teams or anything like that for when teams don't show up because we literally struggle to get 16 teams and in quite a few recent tournaments have had less, in some cases even as few as 8. As well you say it makes it harder for players to get into competitive that's not true at all as 90% of players at the moment that have played in tournaments or regiments over the last year that want to partake in tournaments are already in a team and if they wish to play in tournaments they can still reach out to teams if they wish to join. There are teams that aren't great and teams that are very good still in the community so in reality again that point is pure shit.

In regards to removing the boycotting rule as I discussed with you and Chicken it's impossible to stop tournament spam unless we have this in place so it defeats the point of the entire group. All the team cpts we spoke to and players apart from essentially you and Chicken so far have agreed that the boycotting is fine so again it's not like we have kept this hidden.

EDIT: Tbh I already answered all of these points between you and Chicken yesterday so I don't see why you needed me to answer them again for you.
I won lots of things, I came 2nd and 3rd in lots of things, I guess I did some other shit too........ I'm also an FSE legend, probably most commonly described as a cunt. If the shit I do doesn't make sense in your head, well fuck you because it makes sense in mine.

Which i did, against known and reputed player, some of them considered legend, such as, Mandarin, Ledger, Tiberias, Herishey, Hokej, Troister, Axiom, Evanovic, Stark, Eddie, Jammo, Bagins, Freddie, Python. I didn't had a good relationship with most of them, but i congratulate them for what they did, and i had pleasure facing them.

Offline Fwuffy

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2019, 08:48:11 pm »
agree

Offline Golden.

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2019, 08:50:04 pm »
+1 Herishey

Offline Herishey

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2019, 08:52:09 pm »
Also I'd just like to point out without having voters visible it's impossible to see whether the votes are genuine or from people that even play the game anymore. For all we know they could be 2nd accounts or old friends you've simply asked to vote for you.  ;D
I won lots of things, I came 2nd and 3rd in lots of things, I guess I did some other shit too........ I'm also an FSE legend, probably most commonly described as a cunt. If the shit I do doesn't make sense in your head, well fuck you because it makes sense in mine.

Which i did, against known and reputed player, some of them considered legend, such as, Mandarin, Ledger, Tiberias, Herishey, Hokej, Troister, Axiom, Evanovic, Stark, Eddie, Jammo, Bagins, Freddie, Python. I didn't had a good relationship with most of them, but i congratulate them for what they did, and i had pleasure facing them.

Offline Golden.

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2019, 08:53:14 pm »
I voted No, just as a massive meme.

Also Chicken if you agree with this you are not my community rep.

Offline Dan the Seagull Chef

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Re: 🦀 Freedom of hosting tournaments is gone 🦀
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2019, 08:54:31 pm »
NA>EU lmao
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