| NWBC | Season 4 | Finals

[Nightwing]

But lets start. The camping was bullshit but do you expect us to run in when 45thN literally didnt do anything the whole match. If you as refs would have just told them to move away there would have been no issue. But calling All-Charge after 5mins just shows you guys were lazy and didnt do a good job there.

I'm not 100% sure if it was round 4 or 5, when we (the Nr13) faced one if your lines really fast. While we tryed to get into close combat or maybe even straight going into melee, the enemy line instantly retreated (for most of us looked like they panicked) back to the next hills where one line and lights backed them up. A bit rude in my opinion to just point fingers on our team while both teams didn't play aggressive, isn't it? Your lines played as save and move as save as ours did.

To the cav rambo, I looked at this guy for 20 sec and thought: He wouldn't just charge us alone after he ran round the 45th lights. Well, now I'm smarter I guess.^^ But it is what it is. Would that have change the out come of the round? Maybe. Would that change the out come of the group stage? Maybe. "Hätte, hätte, Farradkette (german meme what means something like
"Had, had, bicycle chain")" as one german politician said some years ago. It doesn't matter in the end.

GG, this match was a tough one, at some points dirty but always a try hard match on both sides. One massiv WP to everyone, also of course a huge thanks to the ref. (especially for searching my name in the heal list    )

[Desant]

Regiment : 96y
Add:
.1093178 /#Gerakl
.2194110/#Gogi

[maskmanmarks]

But lets start. The camping was bullshit but do you expect us to run in when 45thN literally didnt do anything the whole match. If you as refs would have just told them to move away there would have been no issue. But calling All-Charge after 5mins just shows you guys were lazy and didnt do a good job there.

I'm not 100% sure if it was round 4 or 5, when we (the Nr13) faced one if your lines really fast. While we tryed to get into close combat or maybe even straight going into melee, the enemy line instantly retreated (for most of us looked like they panicked) back to the next hills where one line and lights backed them up. A bit rude in my opinion to just point fingers on our team while both teams didn't play aggressive, isn't it? Your lines played as save and move as save as ours did.

To the cav rambo, I looked at this guy for 20 sec and thought: He wouldn't just charge us alone after he ran round the 45th lights. Well, now I'm smarter I guess.^^ But it is what it is. Would that have change the out come of the round? Maybe. Would that change the out come of the group stage? Maybe. "Hätte, hätte, Farradkette (german meme what means something like
"Had, had, bicycle chain")" as one german politician said some years ago. It doesn't matter in the end.

GG, this match was a tough one, at some points dirty but always a try hard match on both sides. One massiv WP to everyone, also of course a huge thanks to the ref. (especially for searching my name in the heal list    )

We had a fair few campy rounds and the map did provide a very campy atmosphere that encouraged both teams to camp it out and tbh I don't blame you. Ultimately it worked to your advantage as we had  the illusion that we could steam roll your team with melee which was a flop. Was definitely fun and will be addressing the mistakes ahead of the match next week vs the 15thYR! Make sure 92nd 33rd team sign up all your members cos we still had about 5-7 in spec at the start when it was 80v80ish 

Once again gg wp and now a lot of my boys now have a lot of funny sound boards of me during the match ffs

[Octanidas]

GG WP, nobody pointed out the epicness of the Allcharges. It was a really great fight with both parties being on the same Level.

Stockholm and a cav guy clutching a 4v2

Stockholm & Octanidas Tag Team never beaten

[33rdKincaid]

So many points both negative and positive and the vast majority I have read I'd say are valid in their own way, so I won't quote to refute anyone on the finer points.

I did (strangely) enjoy the match for its intense atmosphere in melee but it is indisuputable that the match was not played in a way the format is intended for; we can say it was for all manner of collective things that caused this but in the end both teams just didn't want to come to grips at close range, from my perspective I definitely did not as we started each round 4 down.

In any case I've had a discussion Jakob yesterday and will take into account the variety of opinions here when making any changes prior to knock-outs.

2 matches left to go this week - lets get them organised and played before sunday!

[StockholmDE]

.346885/ #Blackbeard

please change Blackbeards ID to that one. Somehow he was in our Roster with a wrong ID. Maybe he can aactually jump in next time then 

[Jakob van Bicke]

I actually have to disagree with a lot of points.

But lets start. The camping was bullshit but do you expect us to run in when 45thN literally didnt do anything the whole match. If you as refs would have just told them to move away there would have been no issue. But calling All-Charge after 5mins just shows you guys were lazy and didnt do a good job there.

Also at least 2 92nd boys have been questioning the map before the first round so. Reading the internal could solve that.

With the Chat I have mixed feelings. Insults and stuff are bullshit and I am happy you enforced bans and slays there. But generally a lot of people where just crying about nothing. It was a Big game and especially also including the talking that was done before the Match, I cant say it was any worse then I expected it to be.

And last point with the Charges. I think I havent seen more complicated tactics and so much skill in months, if not years. The meele took long but with cav of course they do. But thats the format so.

So like if you wanna see more tactics maybe enforce the anti camp timer next time. From my perspective the best Match of the Season
 GG

About the camping: Neither side was advancing or retreating. You just both chilled on your positions and shot at each other on long range. Both cavs were stationary for 80% of the game. I did not see one side initiating the camping and the other one being forced to follow but rather both sides not wanting to engage in any kind of combat.

2 92nd guys questioned the map in internal? Nice. Who were they? If it was you and some other guy who got admin cause they're refs I couldn't give less of a fuck. If there's concerns about the map and stuff we have a nice steam group chat that I always set notifications to "every message" before the start of a match I ref. So if there's actual concerns pls write me over that one or directly over steam (the actual leader of the regiment or someone I know has the required position & authority in the group to actually decide on stuff like that)
As chat is getting spammed quite a lot in warm-up-phase there's no way I can make sure to see everything written in internal

I did expect the chat to be cancerous. It was a 92nd vs 45thN match. I wanted to point it out on the forum so other refs and players know what can happen when playing against a toxic lot and how they can counteract it (btw you were part of the problem in internal admin chat)

And about the charges again. If you think running from melee and waiting for Cav to clean up your shit is "complicated tactics" I have to politely disagree.

Talked about the last point with the anti camp timer with Kincaid yesterday. If one side starts camping and basically forces the other side to camp as well, we'll force the team that initiated the camping to move first. I did, however, as mentioned earlier already, not see an action and reaction here but rather a general consent of not wanting to make the first move.

[maskmanmarks]

I actually have to disagree with a lot of points.

But lets start. The camping was bullshit but do you expect us to run in when 45thN literally didnt do anything the whole match. If you as refs would have just told them to move away there would have been no issue. But calling All-Charge after 5mins just shows you guys were lazy and didnt do a good job there.

Also at least 2 92nd boys have been questioning the map before the first round so. Reading the internal could solve that.

With the Chat I have mixed feelings. Insults and stuff are bullshit and I am happy you enforced bans and slays there. But generally a lot of people where just crying about nothing. It was a Big game and especially also including the talking that was done before the Match, I cant say it was any worse then I expected it to be.

And last point with the Charges. I think I havent seen more complicated tactics and so much skill in months, if not years. The meele took long but with cav of course they do. But thats the format so.

So like if you wanna see more tactics maybe enforce the anti camp timer next time. From my perspective the best Match of the Season
 GG

About the camping: Neither side was advancing or retreating. You just both chilled on your positions and shot at each other on long range. Both cavs were stationary for 80% of the game. I did not see one side initiating the camping and the other one being forced to follow but rather both sides not wanting to engage in any kind of combat.

2 92nd guys questioned the map in internal? Nice. Who were they? If it was you and some other guy who got admin cause they're refs I couldn't give less of a fuck. If there's concerns about the map and stuff we have a nice steam group chat that I always set notifications to "every message" before the start of a match I ref. So if there's actual concerns pls write me over that one or directly over steam (the actual leader of the regiment or someone I know has the required position & authority in the group to actually decide on stuff like that)
As chat is getting spammed quite a lot in warm-up-phase there's no way I can make sure to see everything written in internal

I did expect the chat to be cancerous. It was a 92nd vs 45thN match. I wanted to point it out on the forum so other refs and players know what can happen when playing against a toxic lot and how they can counteract it (btw you were part of the problem in internal admin chat)

And about the charges again. If you think running from melee and waiting for Cav to clean up your shit is "complicated tactics" I have to politely disagree.

Talked about the last point with the anti camp timer with Kincaid yesterday. If one side starts camping and basically forces the other side to camp as well, we'll force the team that initiated the camping to move first. I did, however, as mentioned earlier already, not see an action and reaction here but rather a general consent of not wanting to make the first move.

None of us had internal so had no clue what was going on. A few of my centre boys got slayed for using all chat and to clarify is that 92nd guy banned for the rest of the tournament or just that match? Was chatting tons of shit xD

[Tigere]

Didn't watch the match nor do I really care, but an all charge with mounted cav is just retarded (sadly I see it over and over again in Lbs).

Can only agree with Jakob, since I can absolutely imagine how this match went. No need to watch it

[Jakob van Bicke]

I actually have to disagree with a lot of points.

But lets start. The camping was bullshit but do you expect us to run in when 45thN literally didnt do anything the whole match. If you as refs would have just told them to move away there would have been no issue. But calling All-Charge after 5mins just shows you guys were lazy and didnt do a good job there.

Also at least 2 92nd boys have been questioning the map before the first round so. Reading the internal could solve that.

With the Chat I have mixed feelings. Insults and stuff are bullshit and I am happy you enforced bans and slays there. But generally a lot of people where just crying about nothing. It was a Big game and especially also including the talking that was done before the Match, I cant say it was any worse then I expected it to be.

And last point with the Charges. I think I havent seen more complicated tactics and so much skill in months, if not years. The meele took long but with cav of course they do. But thats the format so.

So like if you wanna see more tactics maybe enforce the anti camp timer next time. From my perspective the best Match of the Season
 GG

About the camping: Neither side was advancing or retreating. You just both chilled on your positions and shot at each other on long range. Both cavs were stationary for 80% of the game. I did not see one side initiating the camping and the other one being forced to follow but rather both sides not wanting to engage in any kind of combat.

2 92nd guys questioned the map in internal? Nice. Who were they? If it was you and some other guy who got admin cause they're refs I couldn't give less of a fuck. If there's concerns about the map and stuff we have a nice steam group chat that I always set notifications to "every message" before the start of a match I ref. So if there's actual concerns pls write me over that one or directly over steam (the actual leader of the regiment or someone I know has the required position & authority in the group to actually decide on stuff like that)
As chat is getting spammed quite a lot in warm-up-phase there's no way I can make sure to see everything written in internal

I did expect the chat to be cancerous. It was a 92nd vs 45thN match. I wanted to point it out on the forum so other refs and players know what can happen when playing against a toxic lot and how they can counteract it (btw you were part of the problem in internal admin chat)

And about the charges again. If you think running from melee and waiting for Cav to clean up your shit is "complicated tactics" I have to politely disagree.

Talked about the last point with the anti camp timer with Kincaid yesterday. If one side starts camping and basically forces the other side to camp as well, we'll force the team that initiated the camping to move first. I did, however, as mentioned earlier already, not see an action and reaction here but rather a general consent of not wanting to make the first move.

None of us had internal so had no clue what was going on. A few of my centre boys got slayed for using all chat and to clarify is that 92nd guy banned for the rest of the tournament or just that match? Was chatting tons of shit xD

I temp banned him. If Kincaid wants to take further measures against him I'll provide the information about the incident. I, personally, won't take any further measures

[Dokletian]

Didn't watch the match nor do I really care, but an all charge with mounted cav is just retarded (sadly I see it over and over again in Lbs).

Can only agree with Jakob, since I can absolutely imagine how this match went. No need to watch it

bruder what a shitty argument: "I wasn't involved in any of this but I'm totally sure it sucks so I don't have to come up with a proper point", thanks for the input

Honestly, as countless people said already, the rounds where inf and cav had to work together were by far the most intense and competitive ones - not just in this match. The camping from both sides was just a product of many inconvenient factors - mainly the map and the slight unbalance in favor of the 45th, Nr13 and 1er - and this was also a novum for the 92nd + 33rd team, since the past matches were far off from being campy.

Also, I don't see why there is no alternative to calling an allcharge 5 minutes into the round, instead of forcing both sides to move as it is done e.g in some LB's or other competitions and as other said already, it was a pretty uninspired response by the admins and especially them complaining on the forums after the match, while they held all the power in their hands to prevent the stuff they're beefin' about now in the first place, is beyond my understanding.

[33rdKincaid]

Spoiler

I actually have to disagree with a lot of points.

But lets start. The camping was bullshit but do you expect us to run in when 45thN literally didnt do anything the whole match. If you as refs would have just told them to move away there would have been no issue. But calling All-Charge after 5mins just shows you guys were lazy and didnt do a good job there.

Also at least 2 92nd boys have been questioning the map before the first round so. Reading the internal could solve that.

With the Chat I have mixed feelings. Insults and stuff are bullshit and I am happy you enforced bans and slays there. But generally a lot of people where just crying about nothing. It was a Big game and especially also including the talking that was done before the Match, I cant say it was any worse then I expected it to be.

And last point with the Charges. I think I havent seen more complicated tactics and so much skill in months, if not years. The meele took long but with cav of course they do. But thats the format so.

So like if you wanna see more tactics maybe enforce the anti camp timer next time. From my perspective the best Match of the Season
 GG

About the camping: Neither side was advancing or retreating. You just both chilled on your positions and shot at each other on long range. Both cavs were stationary for 80% of the game. I did not see one side initiating the camping and the other one being forced to follow but rather both sides not wanting to engage in any kind of combat.

2 92nd guys questioned the map in internal? Nice. Who were they? If it was you and some other guy who got admin cause they're refs I couldn't give less of a fuck. If there's concerns about the map and stuff we have a nice steam group chat that I always set notifications to "every message" before the start of a match I ref. So if there's actual concerns pls write me over that one or directly over steam (the actual leader of the regiment or someone I know has the required position & authority in the group to actually decide on stuff like that)
As chat is getting spammed quite a lot in warm-up-phase there's no way I can make sure to see everything written in internal

I did expect the chat to be cancerous. It was a 92nd vs 45thN match. I wanted to point it out on the forum so other refs and players know what can happen when playing against a toxic lot and how they can counteract it (btw you were part of the problem in internal admin chat)

And about the charges again. If you think running from melee and waiting for Cav to clean up your shit is "complicated tactics" I have to politely disagree.

Talked about the last point with the anti camp timer with Kincaid yesterday. If one side starts camping and basically forces the other side to camp as well, we'll force the team that initiated the camping to move first. I did, however, as mentioned earlier already, not see an action and reaction here but rather a general consent of not wanting to make the first move.

None of us had internal so had no clue what was going on. A few of my centre boys got slayed for using all chat and to clarify is that 92nd guy banned for the rest of the tournament or just that match? Was chatting tons of shit xD

[close]

I temp banned him. If Kincaid wants to take further measures against him I'll provide the information about the incident. I, personally, won't take any further measures

Case by case basis I think Jakob, a ban in each case where neccessary.

[Jakob van Bicke]

Didn't watch the match nor do I really care, but an all charge with mounted cav is just retarded (sadly I see it over and over again in Lbs).

Can only agree with Jakob, since I can absolutely imagine how this match went. No need to watch it

bruder what a shitty argument: "I wasn't involved in any of this but I'm totally sure it sucks so I don't have to come up with a proper point", thanks for the input

Honestly, as countless people said already, the rounds where inf and cav had to work together were by far the most intense and competitive ones - not just in this match. The camping from both sides was just a product of many inconvenient factors - mainly the map and the slight unbalance in favor of the 45th, Nr13 and 1er - and this was also a novum for the 92nd + 33rd team, since the past matches were far off from being campy.

Also, I don't see why there is no alternative to calling an allcharge 5 minutes into the round, instead of forcing both sides to move as it is done e.g in some LB's or other competitions and as other said already, it was a pretty uninspired response by the admins and especially them complaining on the forums after the match, while they held all the power in their hands to prevent the stuff they're beefin' about now in the first place, beyond my understanding.

We do not hold all the power. We are bound by the rules of this tournament. The rules have a quite clear say in this. If both sides are camping you call an all charge. And fucking spare me with your "uninspired response". If I make a ruling that's not part of the actual rules I'm 100% sure there'd be even more complaining about how I didn't stick to the rules when resolving an issue.

Also, what other alternatives would you suggest? Telling both teams to leave that part of the map? Telling both parties to move towards each other? Those options might work fine in 1v1s, but with a total of 10 units it's just impossible to pull of fairly. If you got a good idea on how to resolve these situations please do enlighten me. If it's good advise I will incorporate it next time a situation like this arises

[33rdKincaid]

Talked about the last point with the anti camp timer with Kincaid yesterday. If one side starts camping and basically forces the other side to camp as well, we'll force the team that initiated the camping to move first. I did, however, as mentioned earlier already, not see an action and reaction here but rather a general consent of not wanting to make the first move.

Jakob already answered this, we're going over the same things guys lets let it lie.

[Rikkert]

Didn't watch the match nor do I really care, but an all charge with mounted cav is just retarded (sadly I see it over and over again in Lbs).

Can only agree with Jakob, since I can absolutely imagine how this match went. No need to watch it

bruder what a shitty argument: "I wasn't involved in any of this but I'm totally sure it sucks so I don't have to come up with a proper point", thanks for the input

Honestly, as countless people said already, the rounds where inf and cav had to work together were by far the most intense and competitive ones - not just in this match. The camping from both sides was just a product of many inconvenient factors - mainly the map and the slight unbalance in favor of the 45th, Nr13 and 1er - and this was also a novum for the 92nd + 33rd team, since the past matches were far off from being campy.

Also, I don't see why there is no alternative to calling an allcharge 5 minutes into the round, instead of forcing both sides to move as it is done e.g in some LB's or other competitions and as other said already, it was a pretty uninspired response by the admins and especially them complaining on the forums after the match, while they held all the power in their hands to prevent the stuff they're beefin' about now in the first place, beyond my understanding.

We do not hold all the power. We are bound by the rules of this tournament. The rules have a quite clear say in this. If both sides are camping you call an all charge. And fucking spare me with your "uninspired response". If I make a ruling that's not part of the actual rules I'm 100% sure there'd be even more complaining about how I didn't stick to the rules when resolving an issue.

Also, what other alternatives would you suggest? Telling both teams to leave that part of the map? Telling both parties to move towards each other? Those options might work fine in 1v1s, but with a total of 10 units it's just impossible to pull of fairly. If you got a good idea on how to resolve these situations please do enlighten me. If it's good advise I will incorporate it next time a situation like this arises

Tbh even in 1v1 LB's "telling both teams to move" never works well. It always results in both sides complaining, because "the other side was the one that started camping so why are we getting punished too". Or it results in both sides switching hills/moving over to the next hill. The only thing that works decently well in 1v1 LB's is "meet in the middle" and even that is flawed, since the team that is on the bigger hill will have an advantage when both sides are pretending that they want to move towards each other.

I don't think there's a perfect way to prevent camping in this type of tournament aside from one of the teams just not giving enough shits to camp because it's a fucking NWBC that were playing for fun, not an NWL.