Author Topic: Hearthstone  (Read 55903 times)

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Offline Audiate

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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #450 on: January 26, 2018, 06:30:53 pm »
Ooh ooh, I see the play, ping your girl, play the demon, pass the turn.

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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #451 on: January 26, 2018, 08:11:53 pm »
He probably missed lethal, 0/2 in arena what a joke of a player

Offline Krastinov

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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #452 on: January 27, 2018, 05:26:12 am »
He probably missed lethal, 0/2 in arena what a joke of a player

farther than you've ever gotten
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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #453 on: January 27, 2018, 05:30:51 am »
He probably missed lethal, 0/2 in arena what a joke of a player

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When I played arena a lot I got to 10 wins three straight times

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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #454 on: January 27, 2018, 04:37:22 pm »
I've got something like 8 12-win arena runs, and I still haven't learned that it's a much better way to spend my gold than packs.

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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #455 on: January 29, 2018, 11:37:52 pm »
Changes coming in February:

- Patches the Pirate no longer has Charge.
- Raza the Chained sets your hero power to (1) cost instead of (0).
- Corridor Creeper is going from 5-Attack to 2-Attack.
- Bonemare is going from 7-Cost to 8-Cost.

Woah.

I'm a little disappointed about Raza and Patches, I feel both cards were only made so OP by other cards available. Honestly I think DK Anduin doing only 1 damage per hero power rather than 2 would have been a better change for the game as a whole. And Patches was great for chip damage for miracle decks, now he's just a deck thinner, and he was nerfed because of Tempo Rogue, which just has a ton of OP cards.

What I'm most disappointed at is that the best deck in the Standard format right now is any variant of Control Warlock, and Raza + Anduin Priest is the only deck that hard countered it other than greedier Control Warlocks. CW got no nerfs, while the #1 thing that prevented it from being super abrasive was Priest.

I guess this was a nerf to balance out decks in Wild post-rotation, but it's not like those decks weren't already available and did all that much better than Naga Sea Witch + Giants decks, which I'm pretty sure still dominate Wild rn.

Another nail in the coffin imo. Blizzard has the ability to change cards after they're already made, and has not made good use of that ability imo. I've had beta access to Magic Arena for a little while now, and once they get their UI and economy problems sorted, I think it'll be decent. Gwent is good too but super simple still, they need to up the complexity in terms of card and deck interaction imo, but I think they've started making good progress towards that so far. Physical MTG remains top dog, I've begun spending nothing on virtual card games as a whole and more on MTG.

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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #456 on: January 30, 2018, 01:37:44 am »
Raza priest was always an annoying deck that I wouldn’t mind seeing nerfed, they created plenty of counters to patches so I don’t see the point in nerfing him. However, it’s sad to see bonemare and corridor being nerfed due to the fact that they were good cards for FTP players.

Offline Krastinov

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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #457 on: February 01, 2018, 03:46:52 am »
Send iceblock to wild.
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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #458 on: February 01, 2018, 05:32:53 pm »
Changes coming in February:

- Patches the Pirate no longer has Charge.

It took them this long to fix that?

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Offline Audiate

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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #459 on: February 03, 2018, 06:22:29 am »
Yeah, Patches with Charge was really good, but not necessarily busted. It was still a 1/1. It at least prevents any ol' deck from playing Southsea Captains to abuse the mechanic, which is good. I'd still put him in my Wild Rogues who just want to turn 1 remove a card from deck and get more board presence (aka two 1/1's turn 1).

Literally the only nerf I have a problem with is Raza, I think it wasn't correct. I think making his cost work poorly with a crucial turn would have been better, or making him like a 2/2. Honestly. I think the tempo turn-5 play and the really strong, on-curve 5/5 body were the parts that made the card SO good, despite it being an enabler for OTK and 2TKs. Like if it cost more, and more so, if its body was way weaker, it would have been a pretty sufficient nerf, because he'd no longer be able to deal with the board. At times, Raza can double-trade against aggro after turn 5. Turn 5 is the best time to play Raza (few other good plays available). Bad nerf imo, greatly hinders the card post rotation. People have been saying "THANK YOU BLIZZARD FOR THINKING ABOUT US LITTLE GUYS IN WILD" but I think A) most Wild players seem to be players who don't understand what Wild actually is or just plays it to put in Unstable Portals or Dr. Boom, and B) the change to the ladder system will balance out their issues way more than a nerf to Raza. More so, nerfing cards right before they hit rotation really wrecks their chances at working in Wild. I don't think post-nerf Wild Raza Priest to be a Tier 1 deck, even with Reno Jackson--it's either die before cheated out Giants kill you or survive to turn 8 and have the Death Knight to play that turn and win. I think the nerf is a much less harsh but only slightly less wrong Patron Warrior nerf. Warsong Commander was nerfed so late towards the first Wild Rotation that it was essentially Blizzard saying "let's ruin this deck completely so it's no longer playable in Wild, a format where all your old favorite decks are supposed to be playable." Raza Priest will be playable, but worse. It won't be nearly as unplayable as Patron Warrior, but it'll definitely suck in comparison.

TL;DR unban Warsong Commander lul

Send iceblock to wild.

noob spotted

jk. Ice Block just can't be rotated until Mage gets a considerable amount of ways to protect itself. You can take Arcane Artificer as a sign that Block might be put in HoF, but Artificer isn't enough on its own. 2 Artificers + Spell focus + Ice Barriers just doesn't compare to an Ice Block in Control Mage.

Btw, play MTG you dummies. Better game. If I could refund all the money I've ever spent on Hearthstone just to buy playsets of Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, some of those good ass split lands, Ancestral Visions, Thoughtseizes, etc. etc. blah blah blah, I would 1,000,000/1,000,000 of the time.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 06:27:04 am by Audiate »

Offline Krastinov

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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #460 on: February 10, 2018, 05:40:06 am »
Yeah, Patches with Charge was really good, but not necessarily busted. It was still a 1/1. It at least prevents any ol' deck from playing Southsea Captains to abuse the mechanic, which is good. I'd still put him in my Wild Rogues who just want to turn 1 remove a card from deck and get more board presence (aka two 1/1's turn 1).

Literally the only nerf I have a problem with is Raza, I think it wasn't correct. I think making his cost work poorly with a crucial turn would have been better, or making him like a 2/2. Honestly. I think the tempo turn-5 play and the really strong, on-curve 5/5 body were the parts that made the card SO good, despite it being an enabler for OTK and 2TKs. Like if it cost more, and more so, if its body was way weaker, it would have been a pretty sufficient nerf, because he'd no longer be able to deal with the board. At times, Raza can double-trade against aggro after turn 5. Turn 5 is the best time to play Raza (few other good plays available). Bad nerf imo, greatly hinders the card post rotation. People have been saying "THANK YOU BLIZZARD FOR THINKING ABOUT US LITTLE GUYS IN WILD" but I think A) most Wild players seem to be players who don't understand what Wild actually is or just plays it to put in Unstable Portals or Dr. Boom, and B) the change to the ladder system will balance out their issues way more than a nerf to Raza. More so, nerfing cards right before they hit rotation really wrecks their chances at working in Wild. I don't think post-nerf Wild Raza Priest to be a Tier 1 deck, even with Reno Jackson--it's either die before cheated out Giants kill you or survive to turn 8 and have the Death Knight to play that turn and win. I think the nerf is a much less harsh but only slightly less wrong Patron Warrior nerf. Warsong Commander was nerfed so late towards the first Wild Rotation that it was essentially Blizzard saying "let's ruin this deck completely so it's no longer playable in Wild, a format where all your old favorite decks are supposed to be playable." Raza Priest will be playable, but worse. It won't be nearly as unplayable as Patron Warrior, but it'll definitely suck in comparison.

TL;DR unban Warsong Commander lul

Send iceblock to wild.

noob spotted

jk. Ice Block just can't be rotated until Mage gets a considerable amount of ways to protect itself. You can take Arcane Artificer as a sign that Block might be put in HoF, but Artificer isn't enough on its own. 2 Artificers + Spell focus + Ice Barriers just doesn't compare to an Ice Block in Control Mage.

Btw, play MTG you dummies. Better game. If I could refund all the money I've ever spent on Hearthstone just to buy playsets of Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, some of those good ass split lands, Ancestral Visions, Thoughtseizes, etc. etc. blah blah blah, I would 1,000,000/1,000,000 of the time.

Lol, just told me that it can't be rotated until mage gets a considerable amount of ways to protect itself and then countered your own opinion for me by stating that mage has a considerable amount of ways to protect itself. Considering the amount of board control they already have as well as artificers, dk jaina, etc they'd be fine without iceblock. The only other reasonable option would be for Blizzard to buff secret counters or create better options for secret counters. I find myself trying to tech in 1 or 2 secret keepers in my control lock deck.

I miss when Hearthstone had far more variety instead of creating 1 or 2 ultra-powerful meta defining cards each expansion and then having everyone build their decks around it. They made a good decision by nerfing Patches as that limited their room to design more pirates since most people generally toss in 1 or 2 cheap pirates to pull him.

edit: Inner fire priest is still and will always be a cancer deck. Please burn it.

edit edit: Someone suggested that a good way to nerf iceblock would be to take hypothermia from WoW and implement it into Hearthstone. If you use Iceblock then you can't play another one on the next turn. That sounds like a great way to balance it.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 05:44:39 am by Krastinov »
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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #461 on: February 10, 2018, 07:35:39 pm »
Lol, actually I didn't contradict myself. I said what they're getting is a sign that they can potentially rotate Ice Block in the future, but they're not there yet--I've been playing a ton of Control Mage this week and it wouldn't get by without Blocks, even with a really heavy focus on removal and board control. But Mage is getting close to not needing it, it's just that they'd have to maintain how Mage can stay alive with their minimal available healing throughout rotation cycles (imagine post-rotation after DK, Artificer, and Block are all gone). And having paid attention to card game design during the last few years, I can tell they're trying to ween away from not only Ice Block in Control Mage, but Control Mage entirely (as the main archetype of the class), trying to get Mage back to playing Tempo, like old Mechs. People build decks based off what they know, it takes a while for people to pick up on card combos that are blatantly there--Patron Warrior, for example, took MONTHS before someone figured out that the deck could even exist, let alone be really good. Blizzard wants people to stop thinking of Mage as a Control-oriented class before they ban Ice Block, and hell, I'd MUCH rather them rotate it than nerf it to oblivion.

Speaking of which, I think I'm going to start a (new) petition to "unban" Warsong Commander and rotate it to Wild. Their nerfs to the standard cards really do not effect Wild in the slightest, and yet there's super problematic cards already ruining Wild and have been fucking it over for months. They seriously need to fix Barnes and Naga Sea Witch, and I personally think it's time to buff old cards that were nerfed into memes.

 - Warsong Commander should give things charge like it used to, not buff Charge minions (aka doing nothing).
 - Blade Flurry should have definitely cost more than 2 (4-6 is right), but it damaging heroes was how Maly Rogue existed. Newer versions just don't work as well as the old school version, and the deck has potential in Wild to be a Tier 2-1 deck without being oppressive now that it has Kingsbane.
 - Nat Pagle was nerfed waaaay back in like beta or alpha, but I think it was wrongly. I guess they wanted to intentionally have BAD legendaries, because he used to have a 50% chance to draw a card at the end of your turn instead of the start. I guess they didn't want a 2-mana 0/4 Mana Tide Totem for all classes that only functions 1/2 of the time, but I think it's totally fine.
 - Molten Giant is definitely a problem but only through Naga Sea Witch. In other decks, it's unplayable, but unfairly so. Molten Giant should have been nerfed to cost at most 22, but I don't think 20 was wrong. Handlock was a favorite of people, Renolock kind of changed the game but Handlock really was a different experience, and even nowadays you wouldn't put a Molten in Renolock because it's just that unplayable. Playing giants and drakes into Arguses and Sunfurys just isn't good anymore, and it's a shame, because I think old Handlock could be a reasonable way to beat Naga + Giants.
 - Keeper of the Grove should get its 2 lost health back. They based the nerf purely off of how much the card was being played, but I guess they ignored how Mages always run Arcane Intellect and Rogues almost always run Backstabs, Saps, AND Eviscerates (pre-Keleseth). I'd love old Keeper so much in Wild because Druid needs something they can invest to take out 2-3 enemy aggro creatures. There's a deck near and dear to me called Infinity Druid, which runs a mix of Taunts, Deathrattles, and Mill (Deathlords, Sludge Belchers, Astral Tigers, Malorne, N'Zoth, Hadronox, Naturalize, Coldlights, The Darkness, etc.), and it would probably succeed more with just one 2/4 Keeper that can help stem the tides after a Deathlord and before a Sludge Belcher.
 - Dreadsteed was a really fun card and they nerfed it in order to add a common card that saw no constructed play. Deathspeaker should instead say "Battlecry: Give a friendly minion Immune until this dies." which wouldn't make Knife Juggler + Defile + Dread + Death that terrible. Terrible, terrible move on Blizzards part, no idea what they were thinking there.




I don't see Hearthstone holding up well post-rotation, but it all depends on the impact of the next set. It's a problem though that they print sets with individual purpose--in other words, I'll give an example. Magic the Gathering did things in pairs for a long time, up until the last set, where 2-3 sets were part of a "block" where the second and third sets of the block were continuations of the same story and world as the first set of the block, and often some stories and game concepts carried over from one block to another. This meant that they could reinforce archetypes that weren't as strong as they hoped them to be or prevent strong archetypes from breaking the meta more so, by making tiny tweaks to the 2nd/3rd sets before release. I think the biggest place something like this was ever needed in Hearthstone was Whispers of the Old Gods. That set was basically how they parallel to the Battle for Zendikar block (2015) and the Shadows over Innistrad block (2016), which both had to do with these creatures called the Eldrazi, which are like a mix between Lovecraftian old ones and the Crystalline Entity from Star Trek. They were basically the Old Gods of Hearthstone--they were big, they did a ton, but they were done differently. There were three Eldrazi Titans, and each were printed as two different variants over the course of the game, with each version of a Titan doing something different but thematically the same, giving them "character" despite not really having any. Anyway, these cards are still playable in Modern (the Wild format of MTG), but you don't see the Old Gods as much as you used to. Sure, Y'Shaarj was played more than ever with Big Priest coming around, and N'Zoth is always playable in Deathrattle-heavy decks, and Yogg-Saron was playable for quite some time before he was nerfed pretty considerably, but the one I'm specifically thinking of is C'Thun. When WotOG came out, C'Thun decks were BIG. Midrange C'Thun Druid was fairly popular, C'Thun Tempo Mage saw a little play, C'Thun Control Warrior was a popular and strong archetype, and even C'Thun Rogue popped up after a little while and was pretty decent. But none of these decks are played, at all, in Standard or Wild. This is because C'Thun decks saw 0 support and hadn't had a ton of options available to begin with. Brann was a staple in a lot of C'Thun decks, but the problem with Wild is that it's not balanced. Because C'Thun had no further support given after WotOG, it's extremely hard to build a Wild C'Thun deck that both techs against the meta-game, stays alive, and pulls off big C'Thuns, and between those things, you're likely not going to be doing any of them as much as you're going to need to. N'Zoth will always get support in Deathrattle cards, Y'Shaarj will always get support in big creatures, and Yogg-Saron will always get support in spells (even though he's not the miracle god he once was). But C'Thun will likely never get support that helps it dramatically. MTG's Modern format has something like 35 cards that are banned, which is actually a ton despite there being SO many more Magic cards ever printed than Hearthstone cards, and Modern is one of the game's favorite formats right now, with a lot of people saying it's at its golden age now, because you can play pretty much anything and have reasonable success with it, and that's to thank a healthy card pool and a smart ban list. But in Hearthstone, Wild has even less viable decks than Standard, it seems. There's clearly a problem with that and Blizzard needs to act fast with a major rotation coming that'll send a lot of people who used to spend a ton on the game and have spent less and less the passed few expansions, like myself, to Wild, or they're going to lose a significant portion of the playerbase who doesn't like where the game is at right now.

tl;dr: uhhhhhhh hearthstone players are introvert spergs and magic players are extrovert gods lololololol

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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #462 on: February 10, 2018, 11:28:07 pm »
I miss dragon warrior

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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #463 on: February 10, 2018, 11:52:38 pm »
Dragon Warrior was good in Standard but still functional in Wild I'm sure. I haven't tried it since I nearly hit Legend with it on stream like a year ago but there's no reason that it'd be bad. It'd suck against Giants but that's about it.

Speaking of which, I built a Giant-killer today, and it's actually pretty good. It's probably the only viable C'Thun deck in this current Wild meta. Valeera isn't needed; another Blade of C'Thun or Elven Minstrel is probably better, but I only have one of each.

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Re: Hearthstone
« Reply #464 on: February 10, 2018, 11:55:01 pm »
Krastinov misses pirate warrior