Game of Thrones thread (USE SPOILERS)

[Nipplestockings]

The funniest thing about book reader elitism is that the books aren't even that great either. They're like mid-tier fantasy at most, and considering fantasy is a pleb genre anyway ASOIAF is the strangest pseudo-intellectual phenomenon ever.

Won't stop me from loving it tho.

[Turin Turambar]

The funniest thing about book reader elitism is that the books aren't even that great either. They're like mid-tier fantasy at most, and considering fantasy is a pleb genre anyway ASOIAF is the strangest pseudo-intellectual phenomenon ever.

Won't stop me from loving it tho.

Yeah, at one point I realized that most (modern) fantasy books are just mass products and lots of them are actually pretty bad.

[Masterporn]

and what really grinds my gear is how the fuck a child can be proud of being incest, i mean seriously, WTF.

[Herishey]

She's been in Dorne, they already stated their feelings on it, so she will have started to succumb to their ideals I guess.

[Walko]

The funniest thing about book reader elitism is that the books aren't even that great either. They're like mid-tier fantasy at most, and considering fantasy is a pleb genre anyway ASOIAF is the strangest pseudo-intellectual phenomenon ever.

Won't stop me from loving it tho.

I disagree. Maybe in the literary sense maybe it's nothing special (or even with flaws) but I think the strengths of asoiaf come from its existence as a whole. While that's pretty vague, I think one of things that makes it so enjoyable and allows us to get so immersed into the world is that Grrm actually really gives a shit about the world he is creating, and has put great effort into creating a good quality world and characters.

[Walko]

Another thing to note is Its undeniable how much the story makes people care about the characters and universe. I have never had a relationship with characters like  I have with the ones in asoiaf

Also I feel like his understanding of characters and how they work within the world is unparalleled, and really makes it that much better.


Of course my opinion isn't worth much and I'm completely bias since I am an avid reader/fan of asoiaf

[Nipplestockings]

I agree that ASOIAF is a wonderful experience as whole, but the elitism is really stupid considering it's not that high quality literature in terms of writing and prose.

And yeah, ok maybe it's unfair of me to label ASOIAF as mid-tier fantasy, but I still do think that it doesn't hold up to any real works of literary fiction, while other fantasy series like Lord of the Rings certainly do.

[Walko]

yeah it's pretty dumb, but I can understand some of the reasoning behind it. Are you referring to Book v. Show elitism? I feel like one of the things that is great about it is it's depth and level of detail and how intricate the entire thing is, and because of the medium as well as many other reasons, the show massively simplifies, and my gut reaction is the same pseudo-pretentious, "the show is for filthy casuals" kinda thing. But I think it's just because asoiaf is something we hold dear and don't like to see changes, especially if it's changing one of the things we love to simplify it for people. Added on season 5 had some huge glaring errors in the writing.

I agree it wouldn't really hold up, but I don't think that matters, I don't think Jar Jar gives a fuck, and I certainly don't. I don't think it's trying to be anything it's not, and stupid people will find anything to make themselves superior.

[Gluk the Walrus]

Okay, LotR was like a one time masterpiece. ASOIAF is close to LotR compared to some of the other shit out there. Understand that fantasy on this level is not a 1 year book thing. It literally takes decades to make this shit because what makes fantasy like this so great is that they have to create a world from fucking scratch. What does it look like? Who lives there? What do the people/thing living there do? Then you have to go much much MUCH deeper. What do they eat? How do they talk? What is their history? What is their culture? What do they wear? Are there other people in the world? If so then you have to do all of the shit i just said again. Then decide what the map looks like, the geography. Okay and then once you made the world, then you start writing the story. It is a HARD genre to write.

[Walko]

yeah. And thats what makes Asoiaf so great. If you guys haven't I really suggest checking out the worldbook "A World of Ice and Fire" fantastic illustrations and lots of information regarding the world/lore if you are into that stuff.

Also I'm gonna have to say I absolutely love Lotr, again for the world, but I don't think Tolkein was a super good writer tbh. He was primary a linguist and again I think he really cared more about creating the world. I think the Silmarillion really conveys this because it's not very well written ( I know he was dead and it was just put together and shit, but even in perfect format and shit it would be ridiculously hard to follow) but really shows how much Tolkein cares. I think Jar Jar's world is 1000% more interesting than middle Earth though. While I love Middle Earth it's not horribly creative in a lot of ways.

[Nipplestockings]

I'm not such a big fan of LoTR either tbh, but my point is that it's considered by a lot of people to be truly classical literature. I'm not sure if I agree with that, and it could just be because he pretty much invented the genre and has been considered a great author for decades, but it's just how it is.

Okay, LotR was like a one time masterpiece. ASOIAF is close to LotR compared to some of the other shit out there. Understand that fantasy on this level is not a 1 year book thing. It literally takes decades to make this shit because what makes fantasy like this so great is that they have to create a world from fucking scratch. What does it look like? Who lives there? What do the people/thing living there do? Then you have to go much much MUCH deeper. What do they eat? How do they talk? What is their history? What is their culture? What do they wear? Are there other people in the world? If so then you have to do all of the shit i just said again. Then decide what the map looks like, the geography. Okay and then once you made the world, then you start writing the story. It is a HARD genre to write.

That's true, but in many cases the writer focuses so much on worldbuilding and lore that his writing really suffers. There's a fine line between too much detail and too little, and I think it's a testament to an author's skill at writing when he gets the balance just right. In both LoTR and ASOIAF I think both authors focus far too much on detail, while largely ignoring prose, pacing and the small intricacies of the text itself, rather than just the world, setting and events at hand. While worldbuilding is difficult and requires talent as a storyteller, in my mind writing as an art is far more than that, and many fantasy authors cannot pin down that critical other side.

[Colonel Howe]

LotR books and Tolkien's writing style frankly suck.

I mean, Frodo ages 40 years in one paragraph for christs sake. The LotR books are dry, lifeless "history" textbooks.

I guess i shouldn't expect anything better from a dirty monarchist Brit

[Gluk the Walrus]

Colonel Howe - "LotR sucks! A book that is still popular a 100 years later is "lifeless." My opinion isn't biased at all!"

[Nipplestockings]

Of course it's biased ya ass, it's his personal opinion.

[Colonel Howe]

I happen to like the LotR universe, just not Tolkien or his writing style.

When it comes to a writing style being dry and lifeless, time has nothing to do with it. Tolkien is post-WWI when you have acclaimed writers like Hemingway and Fitzgerald. Hell, way before that you have Edgar Alan Poe, Victor Hugo, and so on

The fact that Tolkien wrote his stuff some 100 years ago has nothing to do with it being bland and dry. The fact that it's dry and bland makes it dry and bland.

The universe itself is full of life and interesting things but Tolkien is simply not a good writer. But as any Barnes and Noble will tell you, you don't have to be a good writer to be "popular"

Of course it's biased ya ass, it's his personal opinion.

Nipplestockings~ "look at my biased facts guys!"