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Mount & Blade Warband: Napoleonic Wars => Events: EU => Community => Competitive EU Events/Tournaments => Topic started by: 33rdKincaid on June 06, 2019, 09:39:38 pm

Title: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: 33rdKincaid on June 06, 2019, 09:39:38 pm
Hi all -

I'm looking to potentially get a large scale event off the ground over the summer period (after EIC) and can't decide between the two below, so looking for input as to which (if any) the community might be interested in taking part in. I posted in this forum as I thought it would get most exposure here, though it is debatable if one of them is truly 'competitive'...



NWBC

The first suggestion is a reboot of an old league, NWBC (Napoleonic Wars Battle Championship). This league saw coalitions of regiments form together, to fight classic style NW Linebattles but with a more competitive atmosphere. I have some basic rules prepared to give you an idea of what this league might look like:

Spoiler
1. Basic rules:
#1.1 Minimum attendance to matches is 50 players.

#1.2 Should attendance of both teams exceed this number then the maximum advantage any one team may have over the other is 5 players.

#1.3 Line infantry, Lights/Rifles(max15) and Cavalry (max15) classes must be involved. The addition of artillery(max10) permitted but must be approved by both teams prior to the match.

#1.4 Regardless of the maximum numbers given for each class (see class rules), teams must be comprised of 50% Line infantry at all times.

#1.5 Matches will consist of 4 rounds on a single map (custom or random) with a side swap.

#1.6 If either team is considered to be camping, displaying no attempt to gain or give gound then a warning may be issued once (per round). Should the warning be ignored that team may be forced to forfeit that round.

#1.7 An 'All Charge' may be called if over 10mins of the round has elapsed or if both teams are to be considered camping. When called all units charge and resolve the round as soon as possible.
[close]
NW Campaign

The second suggestion is a Campaign which I proved concept for this time last year, with a successful outcome (even if the teams turned out to be a little imbalanced activity wise). See below links for more details but it's essentially a commander battle campaign, fought over a virtual map in fse which uses different denominations of units for different troop types, using a higher player to bot ratio than you usually have in commander battle servers, primarily to encourage cooperation within the units:

Here is the thread with the rules for this (hosted back in July last year):
https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=38799.0

Outcome summary of the last campaign can be found on the post here:
https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=38798.30




Tried to keep the post as concise as pos since it's just gauging interest :D thanks in advance for any feedback x
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Herishey on June 07, 2019, 09:49:11 am
I'd prefer NWBC personally, been a while since the last one of that and it was a fun concept the last time I played in it. Plus I'm sure there would be plenty of regiments interested in that when EIC ends.
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Vegi. on June 07, 2019, 10:07:48 am
NWBC looks epic imma say yes to that
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Tardet on June 07, 2019, 01:46:49 pm
While a NW campaign could be a hell of fun if properly run, I am not sure there has been one hosted successfully since the game exists. Considering the state of the community, I reckon a NWBC is a safer choice and could surely provide for some enjoyable fights.

Always a good thing to gather ideas here even though these events don't really stand out as extremely competitive. I'm sure a lot of players would enjoy that regardless so hopefully everything works out after the EIC for you guys to organize this.
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: 33rdKincaid on June 07, 2019, 01:50:20 pm
Thanks all, you may well be right with the NWBC being the better option - at the very least it's a lot less work. I did thankfully make a successful campaign this time last year though Tardet :) look at the 2nd link and there's a summary at the bottom! If there's sufficient interest for that maybe that'll be a project for another time :D

If anyone has concerns to raise re. rules feel free to raise them.
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Tardet on June 07, 2019, 02:14:59 pm
Thanks all, you may well be right with the NWBC being the better option - at the very least it's a lot less work. I did thankfully make a successful campaign this time last year though Tardet :) look at the 2nd link and there's a summary at the bottom! If there's sufficient interest for that maybe that'll be a project for another time :D

If anyone has concerns to raise re. rules feel free to raise them.

Should take the time to read properly myself, thought it was the rules of one of these successful events hosted some years back. I might have come across that thread once or twice but never took the time to look deep into it, will do now thanks! :)
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: 33rdKincaid on June 07, 2019, 02:19:26 pm
Thanks all, you may well be right with the NWBC being the better option - at the very least it's a lot less work. I did thankfully make a successful campaign this time last year though Tardet :) look at the 2nd link and there's a summary at the bottom! If there's sufficient interest for that maybe that'll be a project for another time :D

If anyone has concerns to raise re. rules feel free to raise them.

Should take the time to read properly myself, thought it was the rules of one of these successful events hosted some years back. I might have come across that thread once or twice but never took the time to look deep into it, will do now thanks! :)

No worries, to be fair it was only partially successful; UK lost heart quite quickly as some of their sign-ups activity plummeted and they struggled to get attendance along to matches. Ended up finishing at turn 5.
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Rhinosmyth on June 07, 2019, 02:58:38 pm
tbf NWBC does look good, I think we did something a few years ago simular with 14th Dukey or someone hosting it and it was really fun. Only problem now is that we'd have trouble finding regiments to partner with, some reason we seem to be abit toxic, no clue why  :D :D :D
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Golden. on June 07, 2019, 03:44:52 pm
NWBC looks like a great idea  :D
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Bagins on June 07, 2019, 04:04:54 pm
Would another linebattle tourney really work? like it seems most people aren't interested in getting shot anymore and its all about groupfighting. I think that commander battle tourney sounds like a bit of fun however :)
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Herishey on June 07, 2019, 04:56:31 pm
It's only certain players not interested in lb's anymore and generally they tend to be the more inactive ones in regimental scenes. I think plenty of regiments would still be interested.
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: SwissGronkh on June 07, 2019, 05:08:54 pm
NWBC was amazing!! Pls redo  :-*
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Ry@n on June 07, 2019, 05:40:20 pm
when i was Col of 18th we were having ideas with 2v2 Linebattles..... its literally as basic as it sounds, 2 regiments vs another 2.... each team has many ways they can go about it, e.g. stick together, pretend to be 1 massive line, or 1 line distract while the other flank.... any similar concept to those would interest me.  either way gl with whichever u choose kinky!

Edit: so NWBC pretty much is what im saying, but with however many regiments u choose per side.
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Tardet on June 07, 2019, 05:55:20 pm
Would another linebattle tourney really work? like it seems most people aren't interested in getting shot anymore and its all about groupfighting. I think that commander battle tourney sounds like a bit of fun however :)

I mean just look at the EIC, there were 22 regiments attending at the beginning of the season. Sure, a lot of them have actually dropped but I believe it's mostly due to the format rather than people not being interested in LBs.
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: 33rdKincaid on June 07, 2019, 10:18:54 pm
when i was Col of 18th we were having ideas with 2v2 Linebattles..... its literally as basic as it sounds, 2 regiments vs another 2.... each team has many ways they can go about it, e.g. stick together, pretend to be 1 massive line, or 1 line distract while the other flank.... any similar concept to those would interest me.  either way gl with whichever u choose kinky!

Edit: so NWBC pretty much is what im saying, but with however many regiments u choose per side.

Thanks bae x

Essentially this is what i'm proposing (as in it's on a comparatively small scale) but with the addition of the cav and lights to spice things up and let bigger regs use their additional companies. No FiC rules and 50v50 will allow for a decent proportion of melee to shooting I reckon with less lag than your typical LB.
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: DarklingGames on June 07, 2019, 10:43:43 pm
when i was Col of 18th we were having ideas with 2v2 Linebattles..... its literally as basic as it sounds, 2 regiments vs another 2.... each team has many ways they can go about it, e.g. stick together, pretend to be 1 massive line, or 1 line distract while the other flank.... any similar concept to those would interest me.  either way gl with whichever u choose kinky!

Edit: so NWBC pretty much is what im saying, but with however many regiments u choose per side.

Thanks bae x

Essentially this is what i'm proposing (as in it's on a comparatively small scale) but with the addition of the cav and lights to spice things up and let bigger regs use their additional companies. No FiC rules and 50v50 will allow for a decent proportion of melee to shooting I reckon with less lag than your typical LB.
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9JqkwCRWPw
[close]
Unicorn Army 2.0 when?
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Ry@n on June 08, 2019, 02:43:52 am
when i was Col of 18th we were having ideas with 2v2 Linebattles..... its literally as basic as it sounds, 2 regiments vs another 2.... each team has many ways they can go about it, e.g. stick together, pretend to be 1 massive line, or 1 line distract while the other flank.... any similar concept to those would interest me.  either way gl with whichever u choose kinky!

Edit: so NWBC pretty much is what im saying, but with however many regiments u choose per side.

Thanks bae x

Essentially this is what i'm proposing (as in it's on a comparatively small scale) but with the addition of the cav and lights to spice things up and let bigger regs use their additional companies. No FiC rules and 50v50 will allow for a decent proportion of melee to shooting I reckon with less lag than your typical LB.
sounds good, not sure how the no FiC rule will go down, depends on your target audience as more competitive regiments will want a FiC rule whereas i imagine casual dont???? not sure
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on June 08, 2019, 08:17:33 am
NWBC sounds great! There are some regs that will take part even if they arent competitive! Good luck!
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: King_George on June 08, 2019, 09:48:18 am
I'm in for the large scale, laggy battles so you know my choice ;)  ;D 8)
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/sOIaPHVZWJxcY/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Skittykiller on June 09, 2019, 03:56:09 am
To be honest this could work if more of the casual regiments would join in, im sure some would be interested in experiencing this. As long you wont make this to competitive then it need to be most should join in. But ye if it wont really work out does it have to be 50v50 or will the minimum be less?
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Cameron. on June 09, 2019, 12:58:44 pm
People think casual regiments that pride themselves on hating competitions and competitive regs will be the driving force in a competition? Idk.
Seems like a cool idea just not too sure how many regiments can pull 50+ people as most struggle to get 15 for EIC.
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Tardet on June 09, 2019, 01:01:34 pm
People think casual regiments that pride themselves on hating competitions and competitive regs will be the driving force in a competition? Idk.
Seems like a cool idea just not too sure how many regiments can pull 50+ people as most struggle to get 15 for EIC.

Pretty sure not every casual regiment have the same approach as the 19th. Also, the minimum attendance of 50 is for the coalition entirely, not one regiment. 
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Cameron. on June 09, 2019, 01:05:58 pm
People think casual regiments that pride themselves on hating competitions and competitive regs will be the driving force in a competition? Idk.
Seems like a cool idea just not too sure how many regiments can pull 50+ people as most struggle to get 15 for EIC.

Pretty sure not every casual regiment have the same approach as the 19th. Also, the minimum attendance of 50 is for the coalition entirely, not one regiment.

But from experience coalitions are far more likely to get absolutely smacked by one big regiment and id say most the casual regiments don’t like competitions that’s why they are casual and that’s how they advertise themselves to their members
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Ry@n on June 09, 2019, 01:47:15 pm
People think casual regiments that pride themselves on hating competitions and competitive regs will be the driving force in a competition? Idk.
Seems like a cool idea just not too sure how many regiments can pull 50+ people as most struggle to get 15 for EIC.

Pretty sure not every casual regiment have the same approach as the 19th. Also, the minimum attendance of 50 is for the coalition entirely, not one regiment.

But from experience coalitions are far more likely to get absolutely smacked by one big regiment and id say most the casual regiments don’t like competitions that’s why they are casual and that’s how they advertise themselves to their members
I see what you're saying, for a regiment like 33rd that can bring 70 to an event on a good day Vs 5 regiments of 10-15 people it obvious who would win.
But I assume the point of this event is for it not to be another 33rd casual event but more individually hosted by Kincaid??? Not sure tbh.
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Vegi. on June 09, 2019, 03:31:45 pm
all random no? so we can prevent stuff like coalitions like 33rd et cetera.
for example 33rd Line with 92nd Lights with 40th cav and HRE arty
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Cameron. on June 09, 2019, 03:47:16 pm
all random no? so we can prevent stuff like coalitions like 33rd et cetera.
for example 33rd Line with 92nd Lights with 40th cav and HRE arty
Good idea but what about if one reg aren’t anywhere near as good, the regs don’t work together and why would we have a regiment with multiple companies if we can’t work together in an event basically tailored for a regiment with many companies
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Tardet on June 09, 2019, 03:50:06 pm
I would personally allow a corps to sign-up and just not have all of its units divided in three or four different coalitions. Same for regiments with several companies.

At the end of the day, it's still is a competition, which means that if you have worked hard on building several companies, you should be able to sign them up together. The independent regiment (be it light, line, art or cav) can look to form a coalition with other regiments they are familiar with, or sign-up as an independent structure and be matched with other independent structures.

Sure, regiments like the 33rd will start the competition with a significant advantage due to a natural synergy between their different companies, but they can still be beaten by individual regiments teaming up together, as it was proven in the past.
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: 33rdKincaid on June 10, 2019, 10:31:55 am
I'm not convinced that large corps/reg sign-ups would be as destabilizing as you might imagine them to be Cameron/Ry4n; the fact that these groups can pull so many players to one event is testament to the fact the majority of their population is not very competitive. It's also worth mentioning that these groups cannot field their full numbers very successfully without a great deal of planning, hence why if the 33rd signed up for example I would say we would be very likely to sign-up with another smaller reg in tow (primarily to make the arraning of matches more flexible).

I am more concerned with coalitions forming, comprised of multiple regs which have the comp players to attend tournaments in their own right. This will be the thing i'll be looking out for to ensure it doesn't destabilize the balance of the event.

Re. the comment on casual regiments not being interested; the inclusion of classes such as cav and lights offer more opportunity for shooting to have an impact on round outcome. This coupled with a lower min. player count of 50 per side to reduce lag in melee & match dependant exclusion of arty will (I hope) make for a very interesting and enjoyable tournament, for both the comp and more casual community.

I'm pretty sure we have sufficient support for the NWBC so watch this space... If you are thinking of attending this would be a good time to open discussion with fellow regs to get amicable groups together for this :D

The Bot campaign also has some excellent support, (from both participants last year and some new ones) so this may well follow shortly after!
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Jakob van Bicke on June 10, 2019, 04:49:54 pm
I don't think splitting up regiments into their companies is a good thing to do. I think you guys underestimate the danger coming from coalitions formed from elite regiments in their specific classes. Just imagine a coalition from 15thYR, 17e, 8eHuss and whoever is good at skirms and arty (don't know lots about the competitive scene in NW apart from Line Infantry)
I'm not sure if 33rd (or any other large regiment) would be able to defeat such a high-skill coalition.

Also I agree (think it was mentioned earlier in this discussion), that you shouldn't punish large regiments that were able to build themselves up to such a size by splitting them into their companies. There's a lot of organization to be done to keep a large regiment like that going and I respect every regiment that is able to do so.

Other than that I can only say, that 2ndHess would love to participate in NWBC. We hope it doesn't interfere with 59th NWCL though. Would be lovely if Kincaid and King_Kaide (pun intended) would communicate about that one ^^
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: 33rdKincaid on June 10, 2019, 05:16:22 pm
I don't think splitting up regiments into their companies is a good thing to do. I think you guys underestimate the danger coming from coalitions formed from elite regiments in their specific classes. Just imagine a coalition from 15thYR, 17e, 8eHuss and whoever is good at skirms and arty (don't know lots about the competitive scene in NW apart from Line Infantry)
I'm not sure if 33rd (or any other large regiment) would be able to defeat such a high-skill coalition.

Also I agree (think it was mentioned earlier in this discussion), that you shouldn't punish large regiments that were able to build themselves up to such a size by splitting them into their companies. There's a lot of organization to be done to keep a large regiment like that going and I respect every regiment that is able to do so.

Other than that I can only say, that 2ndHess would love to participate in NWBC. We hope it doesn't interfere with 59th NWCL though. Would be lovely if Kincaid and King_Kaide (pun intended) would communicate about that one ^^

100% agree with all of the above. A comp reg coalition is something I'd look to avoid when accepting sign-ups! Thanks for the kind words :)

Some coordination re. NWCL will definitely be called for. All I would say though when forming coalitions, I would advise sign-ups to try and reach their 50 in the bottom bracket of their total attendance estimate. For example if the 33rd signed up I would likely put attendance at 40-50, that on it's own not really being sufficient as a sign-up. I would therefore look for a regiment to join our coalition with an attendance of a further 10-15 at least, to put our total attendance estimate at around 50-65 and making arranging matches easier... Hope that makes sense!
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: Ry@n on June 10, 2019, 05:53:14 pm
I don't think splitting up regiments into their companies is a good thing to do. I think you guys underestimate the danger coming from coalitions formed from elite regiments in their specific classes. Just imagine a coalition from 15thYR, 17e, 8eHuss and whoever is good at skirms and arty (don't know lots about the competitive scene in NW apart from Line Infantry)
I'm not sure if 33rd (or any other large regiment) would be able to defeat such a high-skill coalition.

Also I agree (think it was mentioned earlier in this discussion), that you shouldn't punish large regiments that were able to build themselves up to such a size by splitting them into their companies. There's a lot of organization to be done to keep a large regiment like that going and I respect every regiment that is able to do so.

Other than that I can only say, that 2ndHess would love to participate in NWBC. We hope it doesn't interfere with 59th NWCL though. Would be lovely if Kincaid and King_Kaide (pun intended) would communicate about that one ^^
of course u would see it that way as you are also a big regiment with several companies.  What we meant was, it has to be balanced well and it being fair will come down to who signs up. 

When i was in 33rd, it was rare for the opposite team to win a round... for example, a 4 round event maybe the opposition won 1 and sometimes us lights had to go on to the enemy team with the strongest part of 33rd MELEE to make it fair. 

i have no doubts kincaid will be successful in making this work, it will just take a fair amount ofthought and balancing for it to be enjoyable for all regiments and not just the bigger ones with several companies who could co-ordinate their attackas far easier and more successfully.

Either way, i am looking to get the 57e signed up for this one and cannot wait for the fun to begin.
Title: Re: New large scale event... Pick!
Post by: 33rdKincaid on June 10, 2019, 06:40:03 pm
Public event teams on weekly LBs often lack two things; coordination and competitive nature, both of which (at least in part) would be needed in coalitions formed for this tournie.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Ry4n mate, indeed balancing will need careful forethought and potentially a nudge in the right direction for some. Glad to hear your planning on signing up :) x