Politics Thread 3.0

[ClearlyInvsible]

You really just called Japan retarded? Over gun laws? Holy tits.

[Jorvasker]

So, you are denying not having guns banned is good thing? That is your proof it's not.

[Nipplestockings]

You really just called Japan retarded? Over gun laws? Holy tits.

I meant the Japan argument. Edited.

So, you are denying not having guns banned is good thing? That is your proof it's not.

Japan is a different country, with a different culture, with a different population, with different economic demographics, with a different political climate. It's not the same thing. You can't transfer models of law and government over to massively different countries like that - it simply doesn't work. It's nonsensical. In fact, this argument of comparing the USA to other countries with vastly different gun laws has been all but abandoned in the debate playing field. Another common tactic for pro-gunners is to cite Switzerland as a country with extremely high rates of gun ownership, and extremely low rates of crime. This is also false, taking into consideration the vastly different culture and population. It just doesn't work. Don't do it, you look like a fool.

[Jorvasker]

I feel like I am talking to an ignorant hick.

That feeling: You can't reason with it, they always have dumb shit to say to back-up their outlandish thoughts.

[ClearlyInvsible]

Well here's a reason why having a large amount of guns in the US is a bad idea, separatism. We've already got people calling for Independence of states and so on, do we really want them to have the means to try and take that?

The United States has always been a bastion of Republican feelings, be it Right-winged Republicanism which violently rejects the Federal Government, or Left-wing Republicanism which violently rejects large buisness. The reasons people do not take extreme action is because they lack the ability. Not the will, not the desire, the means of a violent uprising.

[Nipplestockings]

I feel like I am talking to an ignorant hick.

That feeling: You can't reason with it, they always have dumb shit to say to back-up their outlandish thoughts.

Oh boy, here we go. Please, do a little bit of research. I don't entirely agree with all points of the pro-gun stance (mainly playing devils advocate as per usual), but this is just too much to bear. You know close to nothing about what you are talking about. And this is from someone who sympathizes with your perspective to a certain extent.

[Jorvasker]

Well here's a reason why having a large amount of guns in the US is a bad idea, separatism. We've already got people calling for Independence of states and so on, do we really want them to have the means to try and take that?

The United States has always been a bastion of Republican feelings, be it Right-winged Republicanism which violently rejects the Federal Government, or Left-wing Republicanism which violently rejects large buisness. The reasons people do not take extreme action is because they lack the ability. Not the will, not the desire, the means of a violent uprising.

I love you so much, Clearly.

[Jorvasker]

I feel like I am talking to an ignorant hick.

That feeling: You can't reason with it, they always have dumb shit to say to back-up their outlandish thoughts.

Oh boy, here we go. Please, do a little bit of research. I don't entirely agree with all points of the pro-gun stance (mainly playing devils advocate as per usual), but this is just too much to bear. You know close to nothing about what you are talking about. And this is from someone who sympathizes with your perspective to a certain extent.

You are the uneducated one. You sound just like one of those filthy patriotic "Pro-American" everything people.

[ClearlyInvsible]

Eh, he's open to reason at least. Better than most psychopaths we have here.

[Jorvasker]

Eh, he's open to reason at least. Better than most sycophants we have here.

True

[Nipplestockings]

I feel like I am talking to an ignorant hick.

That feeling: You can't reason with it, they always have dumb shit to say to back-up their outlandish thoughts.

Oh boy, here we go. Please, do a little bit of research. I don't entirely agree with all points of the pro-gun stance (mainly playing devils advocate as per usual), but this is just too much to bear. You know close to nothing about what you are talking about. And this is from someone who sympathizes with your perspective to a certain extent.

You are the uneducated one. You sound just like one of those filthy patriotic "Pro-American" everything people.

Nope, I'm far from one of those. Seriously though, do a bit of research. You're regurgitating arguments that fell out of relevance years ago. The pro-gun equivalent of the same argument is just as obsolete. Just read up on the subject a bit more. It isn't difficult, there are tons of resources available online.

Well here's a reason why having a large amount of guns in the US is a bad idea, separatism. We've already got people calling for Independence of states and so on, do we really want them to have the means to try and take that?

The United States has always been a bastion of Republican feelings, be it Right-winged Republicanism which violently rejects the Federal Government, or Left-wing Republicanism which violently rejects large buisness. The reasons people do not take extreme action is because they lack the ability. Not the will, not the desire, the means of a violent uprising.

I agree with you there. I don't actually support the "durrr down with gubbment dey take our gunnz" crowd, but I still do support the second amendment, for various other reasons. Why shouldn't people be allowed to own guns? Rednecks and republitards are really the only ones in your eyes who support gun ownership? That's ridiculous.

[Jorvasker]

I feel like I am talking to an ignorant hick.

That feeling: You can't reason with it, they always have dumb shit to say to back-up their outlandish thoughts.

Oh boy, here we go. Please, do a little bit of research. I don't entirely agree with all points of the pro-gun stance (mainly playing devils advocate as per usual), but this is just too much to bear. You know close to nothing about what you are talking about. And this is from someone who sympathizes with your perspective to a certain extent.

You are the uneducated one. You sound just like one of those filthy patriotic "Pro-American" everything people.

Nope, I'm far from one of those. Seriously though, do a bit of research. You're regurgitating arguments that fell out of relevance years ago. The pro-gun equivalent of the same argument is just as obsolete. Just read up on the subject a bit more. It isn't difficult, there are tons of resources available online.

Well here's a reason why having a large amount of guns in the US is a bad idea, separatism. We've already got people calling for Independence of states and so on, do we really want them to have the means to try and take that?

The United States has always been a bastion of Republican feelings, be it Right-winged Republicanism which violently rejects the Federal Government, or Left-wing Republicanism which violently rejects large buisness. The reasons people do not take extreme action is because they lack the ability. Not the will, not the desire, the means of a violent uprising.

I agree with you there. I don't actually support the "durrr down with gubbment dey take our gunnz" crowd, but I still do support the second amendment, for various other reasons. Why shouldn't people be allowed to own guns? Rednecks and republitards are really the only ones in your eyes who support gun ownership? That's ridiculous.

Well, no, the racially challenged individuals apart of gangs in LA and other cities, I am sure, support gun rights.

Also, again, the constitution was written in the 1700's. Issues back then are irrelevant to issues we have today, therefore, it should be re-written.

[ClearlyInvsible]

Well here's a reason why having a large amount of guns in the US is a bad idea, separatism. We've already got people calling for Independence of states and so on, do we really want them to have the means to try and take that?

The United States has always been a bastion of Republican feelings, be it Right-winged Republicanism which violently rejects the Federal Government, or Left-wing Republicanism which violently rejects large buisness. The reasons people do not take extreme action is because they lack the ability. Not the will, not the desire, the means of a violent uprising.

I agree with you there. I don't actually support the "durrr down with gubbment dey take our gunnz" crowd, but I still do support the second amendment, for various other reasons. Why shouldn't people be allowed to own guns? Rednecks and republitards are really the only ones in your eyes who support gun ownership? That's ridiculous.

No, I don't think that they're the only people that want guns. But this is something that would apply to every person in the nation, not just those I feel deserve the right to own a firearm (Myself included, I love my guns).

But I'm willing to sacrifice my right to own guns if it means other maniacs can't have them. I don't need hundreds of Ted Bundys *even more* armed to the teeth.

[Allasaphore]

Gun rights are so dumb. Guns should be banned, if so then there would be no need for them. If you are to get one then you have to do routine checks on a bi-monthly basis to make sure you are still able to own the gun. For example, Japan, they have the strictest gun laws in the world in my opinion. Guns are completely banned, and even police are not allowed to keep theirs, only on duty. If you are to own a gun then you have to have a reason to own it like for a line of work. Then, you have to have a mental and physical check, as well as a drug test, written test, and tests to prove you can still shoot the thing every 2 months. Guess what, there are like 2 gun-related deaths in the whole country of 120+ million every year. If you are caught with a gun it is 7 years in Prison no questions asked.

But no, in America, you have a bunch of dumb hicks that think they know everything and need their guns that they have no use for. They use the common excuse "self defense", well if guns were banned, then no one would have one to hurt you with.

This is a poor argument when you're trying to convince Americans. You're comparing two different things as though they were the same. Our two societies (USA and Japan) have different moral values and personal/political concerns. If you want to convince an American that his/her gun rights should be curbed, then do it from the perspective of an American. Otherwise, you just prattle aimlessly.

Read up on pro-gun arguments, particularly those concerned with government oppression (a primary reason for the 2nd amendment) and self defense for the physically disabled/weak. You're more than welcome to propose counter arguments to these theories created by "dumb hicks", as you say. Times have changed since 1783, but the laws of men are enduring and arduously changed.

Furthermore, do I need to remind you what happened in Japan when swords were banned? Swords were a major part of Japanese culture until they were banned, and the 1877 Satsuma Revolt occurred as a result. One does not simply remove a cultural center without bloodshed. You must first push guns and gun ownership beyond our culture's center before you can ban it.

Spoiler

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satsuma_Rebellion

[close]

EDIT: I do support restrictions on who can/cannot purchase guns. That being said, that's very difficult to institute at this time.

[Nipplestockings]

Well, no, the racially challenged individuals apart of gangs in LA and other cities, I am sure, support gun rights.

Also, again, the constitution was written in the 1700's. Issues back then are irrelevant to issues we have today, therefore, it should be re-written.

Gang members don't care about gun rights because they get their guns illegally anyway. More restrictive gun laws would not stop them from acquiring weapons and committing crimes with them.

Example: Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, but one of the highest gun violence rates in the country. Gun laws are largely ineffective at preventing crime. In areas with strict gun laws and low crime rates, the statistic is often explained by other means, such as the societal values and culture of the area.

For instance, Japan has very low gun crime rates, but it also has very low crime rates across the board. On the other hand, Britain has very restrictive gun laws, and low gun crime rates, but a very high crime rate across the board. The most popular weapon in Britain is the knife. Their culture is far more similar to ours than ours is to Japan, and clearly their strict gun laws have not significantly lowered crime. If Japan were to loosen their gun laws considerably, I think we would see a rather negligible increase in crime, or none at all. Criminal activity is simply not prevalent in Japanese culture.

To your second point: It is true that the values reflected in the constitution are not entirely relevant today. That does not mean they are not applicable whatsoever, and that does not mean the constitution needs to be entirely rewritten. Most of the points in the constitution do still apply today, regardless. While it could probably use a revision, a complete rewriting is unnecessary, I think.

P.S. Thank you Allasphore. It's difficult to argue coherently with my back up against a wall.