Author Topic: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014  (Read 146213 times)

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Offline Carolus.

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1200 on: February 08, 2015, 01:00:15 pm »
What Calle wants to say, he doesn't have enough good sweeds to pass group stage.  ;D
Im pretty sure sweden still has good players...

I should know, I've been in the team several times. We used to but not anymore, atleast not enough ppl who cares about tournaments or visits the forum to learn about them.
Last time we did not have enough decent ppl to fight 8v8. We had to bring in addotional Swedes(friends and aquaintences) outside the 16man team just to be able to play, ie broke the rules and the quality of the team went meh.

We're a small nation. London has more inhabitants than the whole of Sweden. GB, France, Germany etc dont face the same problems as we do.

Offline Tuna[Sniper]

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1201 on: February 08, 2015, 02:16:08 pm »
What Calle wants to say, he doesn't have enough good sweeds to pass group stage.  ;D
Im pretty sure sweden still has good players...

I should know, I've been in the team several times. We used to but not anymore, atleast not enough ppl who cares about tournaments or visits the forum to learn about them.
Last time we did not have enough decent ppl to fight 8v8. We had to bring in addotional Swedes(friends and aquaintences) outside the 16man team just to be able to play, ie broke the rules and the quality of the team went meh.

We're a small nation. London has more inhabitants than the whole of Sweden. GB, France, Germany etc dont face the same problems as we do.
Well I don't have 5 Croatians that play the bloody game, not to mention there is maybe 2 that can melee. I was playing for Yugloslavian team, but I can also play for  Czech since I am half Czech. But I agree with Calle, if you would put 5v5 you would have more nations and better competition. Like this you can go and play semi finals with best teams as Germany , UK,France,  etc, immidietly. When you talk about problem picking players, I already said that, do tournament and best 5 gets to play, easy as that. It is not hard to see who is the best in your nation. Duels first to 3. Or you could also tell people to make teams of 5 and organise inside nation tournament with already made teams, and team of 5 that wins plays on cup.  ;)


EDIT: I remember last year there has been fights in UK team, since certen people picked their friends to play and people like FrithBiscuit who was probably in top 10 melee players on EU side didn't even get chance to apply for spot. So don't say there WILL be fights to get spots, there already WAS fights to get spot but you had no clue how to sort it, I gave you solution. Now if nations won't do that then there is problem of certen people being scared that they are not the best in their nation. :)
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 02:19:15 pm by Tuna[Sniper] »

Offline PrideofNi

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1202 on: February 08, 2015, 02:17:43 pm »
Or allow the bigger nations to field more teams..

Offline bobertini

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1203 on: February 08, 2015, 02:27:47 pm »
I am pretty certain that with enough advertisement each nation can field up to a minimum of 7 people.

Offline Carolus.

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1204 on: February 09, 2015, 01:19:10 am »
I am pretty certain that with enough advertisement each nation can field up to a minimum of 7 people.

Maybe, but do you want to have a challenge or a bunch of pushover nations that might leave mid-tourny

Offline Lubukill

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1205 on: February 09, 2015, 05:32:01 am »
Here we go again...
First, let me say that I am 100% against going under 7 vs 7, but I'm French, so people could use it against me, so let me explain before throwing tomatoes at me.

Dropping under 7 vs 7 would make it just like another groupfighting tournament. But even if it is a "groupfighting for nations", then you must agree on the fact that nations MUST have a bigger attendance than a regular "team". It's still a national team, not a team made of a bunch of friends (or at least it's supposed to be *cough*). I understand the lack of attendance in some nations and the fact that they have to make coalitions in order to play, however I disagree with going under 5 vs 5, because it would just be uninteresting and unfair. Ok, the smaller nations would bring "enough players", however the bigger nations would struggle in order to bring the best five, there would be internal problems (and trust me, there is no need of such restrictions in order to have problems in some nations ;) ) and in the end, bigger nation would just have a disadvantage compared to minor ones.

Also, the "coalition" system worked pretty well so far. You'll tell me again "you're in a big nation so you don't care", yeah well, tell me that we have to make a coalition with Switzerland and Belgium and we'll make it, it won't change anything for us. UK is kind of a coalition too (no hate please, don't take it as an insult or whatever) I'm sure that Scotland could bring enough people for example...On a 7 vs 7. Do you even realize that 3 men less is a pain in the ass for bigger nations, and even for the gameplay itself ? A 10 vs 10 does NOT play like a 10 vs 10, trust me.

Now, I'm not a conservationist, I'm for new ideas that can improve things, however I'm not for ideas that would be good for some and bad for others. You can't please everyone when making a tournament, you have to please the majority and be sorry for the others, that's how it works. So Carolus, I hope you will understand that if they decide to make a 7 vs 7 (which is a good idea, even if I would PERSONALLY prefer a 10 vs 10) it is not in order to have a FRA vs UK in finale and the other nations leaving, but because they can't afford to drop below this number in order to keep an interest in this tournament.

But I agree with Calle, if you would put 5v5 you would have more nations and better competition. Like this you can go and play semi finals with best teams as Germany , UK,France,  etc, immidietly. When you talk about problem picking players, I already said that, do tournament and best 5 gets to play, easy as that. It is not hard to see who is the best in your nation. Duels first to 3. Or you could also tell people to make teams of 5 and organise inside nation tournament with already made teams, and team of 5 that wins plays on cup.  ;)


1 : Best duellist =/= best melee player, so a duel system would be pointless.

2 : Even if a team of 5 wins against another, it's pointless if 2 of them are inferior to 2 of the other nation. For example, if I bring a team with 4 friends including 2 guys that I personally know for being good but not excellent and two guys I have full confidence in (and trust me that's rare :) ), and that we face a team composed of 5 balanced or good players. We'll probably win because we'll be 3 to carry, will it mean that our team is better ? No, it would mean that 3 of us did the job and the 2 others got carried, so that system wouldn't work.

Trust me, it's hard enough to select a roster of 18 people when you're part of a bigger nation, especially when you have plenty of good players, so selecting only 10 guys and fielding 5 ? Forgive me but that's a joke.

I hope you won't take anything personal here, I'm just expressing my point of view, may it be shared or not.
I hope you have fun, I know I did.

Offline Tuna[Sniper]

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1206 on: February 09, 2015, 07:13:54 am »
I understand from where are you comming. But the fact that you can not pick best 5 is not true in my opinion. We all know who are best groupfighters in game. Example: Spacekiller is probably one of your best groupfigters. I mean you can see who is best for team it is not that hard. However you can not deny that last few seasons in bigger nations players were picked to play because of regiment they were comming from and not their skill. I had frenchy in 63e that was one hell of groupfighter, but I remember your team was consisted most out of 14e players. Exuse me if I am wrong. :)

Offline Lubukill

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1207 on: February 09, 2015, 08:17:48 am »
Sadly you can't be more right about the fact that players were not picked only because of their skill :)

However in huge communities, there are always (or at least very often) internal problems that make it hard to pick the best players without leaving some behind. I could give you examples but I don't want to put that * drama on again. But mind you, it doesn't please me at all. I'd really like to play with people I consider good better than with people friend of other people that are good. That has always been a problem, in infantry and in cavalry.

But trust me, that would still be a pain in the ass. Let's say that the tourney would be a 5 vs 5, so we'd do a 5 vs 5 system for the selections, and pick the best players in each team. First, we'd have to regroup the frenchies that wish to participate and have the required amount of skill. Then, hoping there wouldn't be any drama like "hey why this guy that I don't like and not my friend over here I swear he's fkn god", we'd have to do selections between...Let's say 30-40 guys to be short. (That's approximatly the number of guys that attended previous year's selections). And we would have to select like 1 out of 3-4 ? That would require several days of tests, still assuming that there wouldn't be any drama like "If my friend isn't in I'll leave" or "if he's in I'm out" and that kind of stuff.

And trust me, that would happen, even with some guys that would obviously be in such as Spacekiller or myself, there will still be some guys that will come and cry "hey, I'm better than that guy, why am I not in ?" It happens when we have to take 18, it would happen even more if we had to pick only 10 guys and field 5.

That's why I think 7 is a good contrast, it would please the smaller nations and still suit the bigger ones, better than putting a huge penalty on the bigger in order to please the smaller :)
I hope you have fun, I know I did.

Offline Tuna[Sniper]

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1208 on: February 09, 2015, 09:45:04 am »
Yeah I agree, however I still don't understand people can be so childeish when it comes to picking players in team. "I wont play if my friend doesnt play" I would say him then get out I dont need you. But that is me. I always think this is teamwork game which makes it that I always put team infront of myself or friends. But yeah 7v7 could be good, we will see :)

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1209 on: February 09, 2015, 09:48:49 am »
there will still be some guys that will come and cry "hey, I'm better than that guy, why am I not in ?"

i'm better than you Lubu

Offline Carolus.

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1210 on: February 09, 2015, 12:54:12 pm »
Yeah I agree, however I still don't understand people can be so childeish when it comes to picking players in team. "I wont play if my friend doesnt play" I would say him then get out I dont need you. But that is me. I always think this is teamwork game which makes it that I always put team infront of myself or friends. But yeah 7v7 could be good, we will see :)

Indeed Tuna.

To Lubukill, all your above stated reasons for not wanting to play in a smaller format than 8v8 has to do with larger nations having too many good players and not being able to pick a team without ppl crying and argueing. Makes me feel sad when I have to go to the moon and back to find a decent Swede that can block and who's willing to participate, and then he only shows up for one match and I have to bring in some other Swedish guy with 98h's of Warband I played with 2y ago that doesnt play the game anymore just to field 8 men. So forgive me for not feeling bad for you having a hard time picking 10ppl out of 30-40 active MLG meleers.
5v5 or 6v6 is more interesting, more nations would have a chance of participating/winning. When the "big trio" wants to give up their advantage we will have a wonderful tourny.

Offline stylish

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1211 on: February 09, 2015, 12:58:30 pm »
Yeah I agree, however I still don't understand people can be so childeish when it comes to picking players in team. "I wont play if my friend doesnt play" I would say him then get out I dont need you. But that is me. I always think this is teamwork game which makes it that I always put team infront of myself or friends. But yeah 7v7 could be good, we will see :)

Indeed Tuna.

To Lubukill, all your above stated reasons for not wanting to play in a smaller format than 8v8 has to do with larger nations having too many good players and not being able to pick a team without ppl crying and argueing. Makes me feel sad when I have to go to the moon and back to find a decent Swede that can block and who's willing to participate, and then he only shows up for one match and I have to bring in some other Swedish guy with 98h's of Warband I played with 2y ago that doesnt play the game anymore just to field 8 men. So forgive me for not feeling bad for you having a hard time picking 10ppl out of 30-40 active MLG meleers.
5v5 or 6v6 is more interesting, more nations would have a chance of participating/winning. When the "big trio" wants to give up their advantage we will have a wonderful tourny.
We will have a wonderful tourney for the smaller nations yes, but for the larger ones it creates issues which is why it won't go below 7v7, the middle ground for both sized nations (Herishey told me last night).
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Offline USE4life

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1212 on: February 09, 2015, 03:12:51 pm »
Or just do as Pride suggested and allow nations to field more than one team. That way more people from the big nations can join in instead of it being a "who can pretend to be best friends with the captain two weeks before" and smaller nations can field a more concentrated team.

Offline stylish

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1213 on: February 09, 2015, 03:30:06 pm »
Or just do as Pride suggested and allow nations to field more than one team. That way more people from the big nations can join in instead of it being a "who can pretend to be best friends with the captain two weeks before" and smaller nations can field a more concentrated team.
Allowing nations to field more than one team would allow larger nations who can make say 2-3 teams a better shot of winning and still be unfair.
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Offline Maurice

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Re: Napoleonic Wars European Cup 2014
« Reply #1214 on: February 09, 2015, 03:37:11 pm »
Why do you guys always overcomplicate things with your paragraphs and your words? People that try to get rid of corruption are usually assassinated so there is no point unless you want to die to be honest.