So I wrote this Essay For my English Class :/

[KillerMongoose]

Something I find rather funny about this issue is that slavery existed under the Confederate flag for barely four years yet it existed under the American flag for almost one hundred. Also, the Confederate battle flag never flew over a slave ship. It was  battle flag it was never associated with slavery, to call it a symbol of slavery and racism is nonsense. The Ku Klux Klan uses crosses all the time, should we now associate crosses with racism? Hell, thousands of people were put to death either on a cross or for the cross, should we now ban crosses in public?

[Nipplestockings]

I like your strawman argument, KillerMongoose.

[KillerMongoose]

Please elaborate.

[Nipplestockings]

It's irrelevant whether or not the slavery only existed under the confederate state for four years. Maybe that's because the confederacy only lasted for a few years itself? Slavery had been a core part of the confederacy for hundreds of years, and yes, it was technically under the union, but that's the whole reason the war started.

[KillerMongoose]

The whole reason? Right. I guess that whole issue of state's rights never happened..

[Nipplestockings]

The whole reason? Right. I guess that whole issue of state's rights never happened..

The issue of states rights came up because the confederacy wanted the right to expand slavery into newly acquired territory. Among other things obviously, but that was the biggest issue and also the last straw.

[KillerMongoose]

Neither side was fighting for slavery. The Union wasn't fighting to eradicate it and the South wasn't fighting to preserve it. Yes slavery existed in the South but you mean to tell me that thousands of Southerners died to protect the right to own slaves when many of them didn't own slaves? Some of the highest ranking Confederate commanders never owned slaves and many of the Confederate rankers were poor farmers. The plantation owners and slave traders probably never touched a rifle in their lifetimes. And why would Union desertion rates rise significantly immediately after Lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation if the Union was fighting to end slavery?

[Nipplestockings]

The war was about politicians and rich businessmen, not average farmers who were drafted into the armies. Whether specific soldiers in the union or the confederacy cared or not is irrelevant.

[Duuring]

And why would Union desertion rates rise significantly immediately after Lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation if the Union was fighting to end slavery?

You have to think about the context of when those desertions occurred. What had just happened? Is it possible that the Battle of Fredericksburg and the Mud March had something to do with the desertions? I would bet that those two events significantly influenced a lot of soldiers to leave.

Also, you are a text book case of someone who was brought up to believe the whole "Lost Cause" thing. It's just sad.

Antietam, not Fredericksburg. Now, my knowledge on the ACW and her reasons is limited, but before you start trowing statements out yourself, you should make sure they are correct.

[KillerMongoose]

It was issued just after Antietam, a battle which the Union claimed as a victory. And I was not brought up to believe the "Lost Cause" I was brought up to believe that Southerners were evil and wanted slavery. When I actually researched it for my own I formed my own opinion on the matter. So please don't assume things you don't know. Are you going to tell me that the men of the Union were willing to die to end slavery? And that the men of the South were willing to die to protect it? It makes no sense.

And back on topic. The flag in no way represents the support of slavery. It was a battle flag. It never flew over a slave ship therefor to call it a symbol of racism is nonsense.

First of all, who do you think you are?

He is Duuring. He is not to be questioned.

[Duuring]

He is Duuring. He is not to be questioned.

I will question him all I want.

And damn right you are to do so, my good sir.

Killer said the desertion rate after the proclamation shot up greatly, and you respond (rightfully) that this may have other reasons, 'such as Fredericksburg'. But the proclamation wasn't signed after a big defeat, but after a big draw (Antietam), which the north proclaimed a victory (It was more of a Union victory then a CSA one, granted, but in my eyes it was a draw).

I'm getting battles and dates mixed up now, though, so my tribute to this thread is ending 

[Karth]

Personally, Im from Pennsylvania and people immediately think your a racist if you have the confederate flag lol

I have tons of family in Georgia (lived there for 4-5 months as well, near Atlanta), and my cousins neighbor has a confederate flag hanging on his front porch; people there from my opinion dont really mind, but others do.

[Pinball Wizard]

I know I'm being a critic but this line made me, and I know this is (was, probably, unless you have a long due date).

This evidence shows that it is still equal with both symbolic meanings of the Flag on whether it is seen as Southern Pride or Racism.

It should really be "This evidence shows that it can symbolize both meanings of the Flag as Southern Pride or Racism..." or something along that line so that your not stating that it symbolizes both things at the same time.

You brought up some nice points. It's not that people in the North pay no mind to offensive terms, its that we don't think it bothers anyone. We think we are more thick skinned, people where I live honestly believe its the ghetto, so therefore everyone has thick skin.

Personally, Im from Pennsylvania and people immediately think your a racist if you have the confederate flag lol

That's the case here in New Jersey sometimes. Honestly, I think people in the North should have no reason to put the flag up. They do not come from the south, If they want another war like the civil war, it's is just deadly and stupid, If they are trying to portray their racist views with it, racism is horrible and if you really believe the flag is a sign of pure racism then your an idiot, and if you want to show the south's history, its not like your even from the south.

[TheBoberton]

I think people in the North should have no reason to put the flag up. They do not come from the south... and if you want to show the south's history, its not like your even from the south.

I'll remember that if I ever have to move north for any reason.

I do have to feel bad for those people who had ancestors who fought for the Confederacy, and their family has since moved north of the Mason-Dixon line, since they have no reason to fly it either.

[Pinball Wizard]

I think people in the North should have no reason to put the flag up. They do not come from the south... and if you want to show the south's history, its not like your even from the south.

I'll remember that if I ever have to move north for any reason.

I do have to feel bad for those people who had ancestors who fought for the Confederacy, and their family has since moved north of the Mason-Dixon line, since they have no reason to fly it either.

I mean if you come from the South and lived there, living in its history for a while, the move up north, fly your flag. But I'm talking about those people born and raised in the North. My neighbor who was born in New York, he should not be raising the Confederate flag.