Okay, joke's off. What I meant with my comment is that if you start a rebellion, you can expect hurts coming your way. Regardless of whether your rebellion is justified or not, you can expect it. Landrik once made the point that even with modern NATO artillery, civilian casualties happen. If the citizens of Donetsk didn't want hurt coming their way, they should not have rebelled.
Donetsk and Luhansk are Ukrainian territory. Ukraine has the right to protect their territory as much as the Donetsk and Luhansk citizens have the right to fight for independence. The right to self-determination of the Ukrainians collides with that of the citizens of Donetsk and Luhansk, so nobody can claim that as moral ground. Besides, the amount of foreign fighters, even holding commanding positions, puts a big question-mark around who wants the oblasts to determine themselves. The citizens? Nothing really happened in the liberated/re-occupied areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts. People have adopted a 'I don't care either way'-approach.
The right of self-determination is nothing but a facade in this conflict anyway. It's based around people, and the Ukrainians in the east are no different from the Ukrainians from the west. The ethic Russians already have their own state. Besides the fact that many Russians moved to Ukraine during the Soviet time. In short, the right to self-determination has served its purpose; It was invented in the time that Europa was full of multi-cultural empires, and is now nothing but an instrument in the political game.
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