godbless them
godbless them
No, unfortunately I can't speak Russian good enough to listen to Russian news. I just know, that few hundreds of masked people destroying centre of capital isn't "voice of the nation". They're just vandals. By the way, why do you claim, that Russian version is propaganda, and European is truth ;)
In democracy (which in theory EU supports) government should be chosen in elections, not riots.
Concerning anti-protest law, isn't it normal that when riots starts in middle of country it's duty of government to make law which will allow them to stop these riots?
Yup I saw videos. When few militiamen (I don't know correct word :) ) hid inside such building. Peacefull protesters were charging it with battering rams and molotovs...
So they want elections? And then they will choose new govermnet and whose who support Yanukovych will start new riots? Viva democracy
Don't say that Ukrainians aren't fascist because a) some of them are (yeah, there are a lot of extreme nationalists on Maidan),
And besides, it's a democracy, so his supporters have every right to take to the streets, as long as the supporters of the opposition do to.
NO. What on earth are you talking about? All laws concerning public safety are already in place. Making new laws that pretty much takes away your civil rights (without putting martial law in place) is a Orwellian move.
Don't even start on the 'pro-government rallies'
No you don't see correct it's a german soldier.Heh, yeah. That's right, we shouldn't call them Nazis, they were Germans. And Germans, not Nazis started WW2. Thanks for correcting me.
Wait, you aren't Ukrainian by birth?I'm ukrainian by birth, i've received citizenship in 2009, when i received my passport - i reached 16 years.
Wait, you aren't Ukrainian by birth?I'm ukrainian by birth, i've received citizenship in 2009, when i received my passport - i reached 16 years.
Well, from my point of view, you're only counted as full citizen - when you receive passport.Wait, you aren't Ukrainian by birth?I'm ukrainian by birth, i've received citizenship in 2009, when i received my passport - i reached 16 years.
How can you be Ukrainian by birth but not receive citizenship until you're sixteen?
Archduke_Sven
Well, from my point of view, you're only counted as full citizen - when you receive passport.
But you can scratch that part if you want.
Concerning anti-protest law, isn't it normal that when riots starts in middle of country it's duty of government to make law which will allow them to stop these riots?
Martial law is something else entirely then those anti-protest laws.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.polskieradio.pl%2Ffiles%2F698f5f34-50a6-4622-a0e4-a08703b8585d.file&hash=ad67cf6845fa948121b169115aa844b97ddbbc50)This called elections. And not joining EO doesnt matter not caring about their people.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dw.de%2Fimage%2F0%2C%2C17441194_303%2C00.jpg&hash=13bc03e3571058312cee0d2d246e8213644b5fe9)
How can you peacefully overthrow a goverment that doesn't give a shit about its nation?
'Ukraine's top security agency says that protesters have seized over 1,500 firearms, and is announcing a nationwide "anti-terrorist'' operation to restore order.
In a statement Wednesday, Ukraine's Security Service said that such actions by "radical and extremist groups" threaten the lives of millions of Ukrainians.'
Lviv has declared de-facto independence. And the news just keeps getting better.Source, pls.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-facing-civil-war-lviv-declares-independence-yanukovich-rule-1437092Any of my country sources acquired this info, however, rumor was going for a long time already. To be honest, i will be lucky to see them go.
Dum dum Google dum.
To be honest, i will be lucky to see them go.
If you like a mosquitos, you're free too ;)QuoteTo be honest, i will be lucky to see them go.
If you don't want Lviv, can Poland take it? :)
Just kidding, don't start flamewar anyone.
As far as I know, they didn't declare independace from Ukraine, just from govermnent. So it rather means that they support opposition, not that they're going to leave Ukraine :)
Because not everybody is an ignorant fuck who only thinks about themself?
people dying maek my jimmies go rustle.
But seriously now. With there being live bullets shot at eachother I think there should be an intervention from the EU or Russia.
people dying maek my jimmies go rustle.
But seriously now. With there being live bullets shot at eachother I think there should be an intervention from the EU or Russia.
Why people start care about Ukraine, when there is still war in Africa lands, and no one gives a F**k about them... It's sad.
But seriously now. With there being live bullets shot at eachother I think there should be an intervention from the EU or Russia.Don't know about that, both parts are exceedingly careful about not stepping on each others toes.
Yes ofcourse those french troops in Mali aren't doing shit.people dying maek my jimmies go rustle.
But seriously now. With there being live bullets shot at eachother I think there should be an intervention from the EU or Russia.
Why people start care about Ukraine, when there is still war in Africa lands, and no one gives a F**k about them... It's sad.
I can agree with the last two parts.
Russia rolled several armoured columns through Georgia back in 2008. I believe the cause was Georgia wanting to join NATO creating tension, then Russia trying to claim some of the independent states in the region, or something along those lines.As much as an open war seems impossible, let's not forget that Putin did it before. Georgia, anyone?
Eh?
Russia rolled several armoured columns through Georgia back in 2008. I believe the cause was Georgia wanting to join NATO creating tension, then Russia trying to claim some of the independent states in the region, or something along those lines.As much as an open war seems impossible, let's not forget that Putin did it before. Georgia, anyone?
Eh?
No political program? Are you serious? Been watching too much Ruski-TV?
When are the olympics done anyway?
joining EU.
Dont worry, Obama or the UN will be there to help solve the crisis!No no no no no, no Obama, God please no.
US mind your business with North Korea, Europe got this.Europe better to stay out, if they dont want to make things worse, i dont want the people from abroad to order us how we need to live.
US mind your business with North Korea, Europe got this.Europe better to stay out, if they dont want to make things worse, i dont want the people from abroad to order us how we need to live.
Open my profile and read description, take care, pls.US mind your business with North Korea, Europe got this.Europe better to stay out, if they dont want to make things worse, i dont want the people from abroad to order us how we need to live.
You m`rican?
US mind your business with North Korea, Europe got this.Europe better to stay out, if they dont want to make things worse, i dont want the people from abroad to order us how we need to live.
President calls in an early vote!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26289318?r=1 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26289318?r=1)
Vive la revolution!
Ima go to Ukraine and form a small group of guerrilla fighters...THEN WE SHALL BRING SOCIALISM TO THE UKRAINE...
That'll get westerners attentions if a bunch of commies are revolting
Vive la revolution!
Ima go to Ukraine and form a small group of guerrilla fighters...THEN WE SHALL BRING SOCIALISM TO THE UKRAINE...
That'll get westerners attentions if a bunch of commies are revolting
lol socialism doesn't work you filthy liberal
Vive la revolution!
Ima go to Ukraine and form a small group of guerrilla fighters...THEN WE SHALL BRING SOCIALISM TO THE UKRAINE...
That'll get westerners attentions if a bunch of commies are revolting
lol socialism doesn't work you filthy liberal
And Oligarchy works so well.
Stupid slavs, wanting to join the EU lol
Apparently Ukranian opposition leader has been freed from prison and taken authority in Kiev while the former Ukranian president has been voted out of office by Ukranian parliament. Things are starting to look up.Stupid slavs, wanting to join the EU lol
You would rather them be with this?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=934_1393021284 [Graphic]
A government that guns down unarmed priests trying to carry a wounded man out on a stretcher? That sounds like a perfectly safe and reasonable government.
So because a few protesters of the bunch turned to violence, it's okay to gun down entire crowds of unarmed people who you swore to protect? In fact, most of the protester's have been trying to go about things peacefully, disarming the soldiers in Kiev and sending them home, even though they really do deserve to be shot for the crimes they committed. It's ironic you say people consider this a good vs. bad fight but you seem to think it is RU vs EU, when really it is the Ukranian people vs. the Ukranian government. You don't seem to get the big picture of this conflict.Apparently Ukranian opposition leader has been freed from prison and taken authority in Kiev while the former Ukranian president has been voted out of office by Ukranian parliament. Things are starting to look up.Stupid slavs, wanting to join the EU lol
You would rather them be with this?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=934_1393021284 [Graphic]
A government that guns down unarmed priests trying to carry a wounded man out on a stretcher? That sounds like a perfectly safe and reasonable government.
You're implying that the rioters didn't resort to violence first.
The government of the Ukraine is corrupt, but its better than to be fucked in the ass by the European Jewnion.
It annoys me how people like to simplify things into bad guys vs. good guys. There are no good guys.
It's ironic you say people consider this a good vs. bad fight but you seem to think it is RU vs EU, when really it is the Ukranian people vs. the Ukranian government. You don't seem to get the big picture of this conflict.
You are saying the EU and RU is involved with this though. It is the Ukranian people fighting the Ukranian government. EU and RU are not involved at all. When either side sets boots on Ukranian ground and starts firing rounds, then you can say they are involved. The Ukranian people want to join the EU because their government clearly does not care for their well being. That is why the conflict started. The whole EU vs RU is just a backdrop, and that much is clear. When you see the videos of happenings in Ukraine, do you see EU/ NATO/ Western countries firing upon the RU/Ukranian government/Ukranian people or so on so forth and vice versa? No. The people you see are 1. The Ukranian Civillians and 2. The Ukranian government. Therefor, it is a conflict between the Ukranian people and the Ukranian government. The EU and RU are not involved. In fact, Putin is more concerned about how his sports teams are doing in the Olympics than what is going on in Ukraine.It's ironic you say people consider this a good vs. bad fight but you seem to think it is RU vs EU, when really it is the Ukranian people vs. the Ukranian government. You don't seem to get the big picture of this conflict.
"The big picture"? Are you kidding me? You are so misinformed.
The reason the protest started was the suspension of the Ukraine-EU agreement, because Russia (their biggest trading partner and ally) threatened sanctions if they kept to it. It's only recently become a protest against the government as a whole.
You are saying the EU and RU is involved with this though.It's ironic you say people consider this a good vs. bad fight but you seem to think it is RU vs EU, when really it is the Ukranian people vs. the Ukranian government. You don't seem to get the big picture of this conflict.
"The big picture"? Are you kidding me? You are so misinformed.
The reason the protest started was the suspension of the Ukraine-EU agreement, because Russia (their biggest trading partner and ally) threatened sanctions if they kept to it. It's only recently become a protest against the government as a whole.
It's ok untill the fact that protesters are refusing to put the guns down...Losers have to make their move first. When the Ukranian military lays down their guns, the civillians surely will too. I'm fairly sure everyone there just wants to go home.
Military lays guns dow? They can only do it by order of the president.It's ok untill the fact that protesters are refusing to put the guns down...Losers have to make their move first. When the Ukranian military lays down their guns, the civillians surely will too. I'm fairly sure everyone there just wants to go home.
The president was voted out of office by Ukranian parliament.Military lays guns dow? They can only do it by order of the president.It's ok untill the fact that protesters are refusing to put the guns down...Losers have to make their move first. When the Ukranian military lays down their guns, the civillians surely will too. I'm fairly sure everyone there just wants to go home.
Yet he himself claims to be the victim of a coup, and as such claims that he is still in power for what that is worth.I believe he is fleeing the country.
Don't even bother Silent, Clearly is a socialist supporter (idk why anyone would ever want that sort of government).
Don't even bother Silent, Clearly is a socialist supporter (idk why anyone would ever want that sort of government).
1. I'm a Social Democrat
2. Because it works in every nation which has an economy that isn't based on Tourism.
I'm not a God damned Socialist in the sense of Marx.
Germany, France, all of Scandinavia, Great Britain, Canada. Should I go on?
Sweden (and Scandinavia) is a social democracy.
Research has shown that Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway and Iceland all end up in the Top 10 countries to live in, based on the GDP per capita, social support, freedom from corruption, life expectancy etc.
Anyway, back on topic.
I'm a SOCIAL DEMOCRAT YOU NIMROD. I'm not a fucking SOCIALIST.
Yup, and in the same time Viktor Yanukovych is in Kharkiv on the gathering of leaders of eastern parts of Ukraine. And they are not going to bend before terrorists and coup. So yeah, things are very clear - opposition has buildings in Kiev, but as most of Ukrainian industry is in eastern parts of country, they cannot in fact rule Ukraine, as long as eastern Ukraine is supporting legal government. And they are supporting it and are not going to change the side. So there is still chance for victory of legal government. What is more, minister of foreign affairs of Russian Federation has demanded opposition to abide resolution from february 21. What's more Olimpic Games are near to the end so Russia is finally back in the game. And I don't think that they're going to leave Ukraine and their military bases on Crimea. Thing may be in fact not as close to the end as you guys believe.
I'm a SOCIAL DEMOCRAT YOU NIMROD. I'm not a fucking SOCIALIST.
I'm a SOCIAL DEMOCRAT YOU NIMROD. I'm not a fucking SOCIALIST.
I didn't mean any offense. I'm not saying you are a socialist, I'm saying those are not socialist countries. The only real socialist countries are China (excluding Hong Kong), North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, and Venezuela.
He's still in country, and he wont leave it.Yet he himself claims to be the victim of a coup, and as such claims that he is still in power for what that is worth.I believe he is fleeing the country.
Question about palace, i dont care.
That's became a tradition in post-USSR countries, that presidents and goverments got luxury for taxes, every single previous President had the same.QuoteQuestion about palace, i dont care.
You don't care about the fact your president spends tax money on golden toilets, private boats and a zoo?
You've got no idea how much checks and controls there are on our politicians. They don't get palaces. They can't slip away some money. A few months ago a politician tried declearing a couple of candles he lit in a church during a meeting, and everybody was all over him. That's how strict stuff is in my country.In our country it became normal to give a bribes for solution of this or that problem, so if we want to clear corruption out we need to start from ourselves, but that wont be, as long is there is still no solution without bribe. This will never stop, and every person, who will become president, will take as much money as he or she can, it's unstoppable.
You guys are pathedic. 'Yeah, everybody is corrupt, so who cares if this guy is?'.
You've got no idea how much checks and controls there are on our politicians. They don't get palaces. They can't slip away some money. A few months ago a politician tried declearing a couple of candles he lit in a church during a meeting, and everybody was all over him. That's how strict stuff is in my country.In our country it became normal to give a bribes for solution of this or that problem, so if we want to clear corruption out we need to start from ourselves, but that wont be, as long is there is still no solution without bribe. This will never stop, and every person, who will become president, will take as much money as he or she can, it's unstoppable.
You guys are pathedic. 'Yeah, everybody is corrupt, so who cares if this guy is?'.
We can blame all of Eastern Europes problems on communism :)Fast jump from feodalism to communism, was surely a mistake, and now jump from communism to capitalism is painful.
not sure if it's true on not. :p
that one nipple action is driving me crazy :pIn context, that "revolutionaries" threatened, to Berkut soldiers and their families, that they will kill them.
Edit: Prince_Eugen, I've heard many things about those birds and all are lacking evidence. That it is true.
I've heard it was a picture they found in the residency of the president or that protesters did do that and that those birds were in the zoo of the president of just that those are scarecrows. We really can't be sure.that one nipple action is driving me crazy :pIn context, that "revolutionaries" threatened, to Berkut soldiers and their families, that they will kill them.
Edit: Prince_Eugen, I've heard many things about those birds and all are lacking evidence. That it is true.
Even if that are scarecrows, doing it shows that they're, hmm, mentally disabled or smth in this way.
Right now, Right sector radicals are trying to seize over the Kharkov, however, the numbers of anti-maidan movement are high there and rioters are blocked. Yanukovich is in Donetsk or Enakievo,
Enakievo is very close to Donetsk, i just didnt check info about him, by the morning he was in Enakievo and planned to visit Donetsk.Even if that are scarecrows, doing it shows that they're, hmm, mentally disabled or smth in this way.
Right now, Right sector radicals are trying to seize over the Kharkov, however, the numbers of anti-maidan movement are high there and rioters are blocked. Yanukovich is in Donetsk or Enakievo,
You don't even know where your president is, lol :P
I thought you didn't care?Didnt care about what?
About this entire thing. You cared little about the creation of Orwellian laws, but now you do seem to care when your ex-president get kicked out of powder by your elected government. And once again, nobody is claiming this is a peaceful revolt, but I wonder whose to blame.I didnt care about what happened in Kiev, because i knew, what that would look like, when they will enforce their stupid demands, look what is happening today, the country is splitted, because protesters want to seize the industrial and economical heart of country. The new orders and laws of unlegitimate goverment are insane. They want to forbid russian language in regions where amount of russian speaking people is over 60%.
I've seen, read or heard nothing about real seperastic movements in the Ukraine. Sure, the general idea, but never any 'WE GUNNA DU IT!'. Either show some sources or I'm forced to consider it nothing but a story.
Is that a requested or a passed law?Well, the previous law about language politics was canceled (russian language was claimed as second language in 17 provinces from 25), and now there is a requested law about forbid of russian language at all, as well as forbid of broadcast of russian TV channels in Ukraine.
So nothing has passed yet?Law about canceling of status of language has passed, and the law about forbid is on prepairing stage.
The police here in the UK actually use the Testudo as a method of entering buildings.
Why don't they form testudo. That would be a lot more effective.
Just wear heavy boots so they don't get hit in the calf of foot.
Give it time. They still have a government and an intern-president. That's as good as you can get after a revolution.
Give it time. They still have a government and an intern-president. That's as good as you can get after a revolution.For me parliament is ilegitimate, same goes for new president.
Why?Legitimate goverments are created on elections, ilegitimate - on armed revolts.
Why don't they form testudo. That would be a lot more effective.Just wear heavy boots so they don't get hit in the calf of foot.Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.tinypic.com%2F2usy8h3.jpg&hash=0f5d29df4514321e336a592c51803bb301a0fc5f)
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ferminestreetguard.co.uk%2FMarle%252010%2520Testudo.jpg&hash=22bf11ec177c051a22ed908766eae558b3106b8c)[close]
So what's the solution, oh great and wise Augy?Anarchy of course.
Russia should help Ukraine, I don't want to pay for Ukraine just like:
Greece
Spain
Iceland
etc.
So what's the solution, oh great and wise Augy?Anarchy of course.
Seeing videos like this i'm happy i live in a country where people are to lazy to take it to the streets.
+Is that a semi with a minigun attached to the front ? o_O Those easterlings.
The elected government removed him.Hmm, by whom? I didnt see something liek elections :-\
The elected government removed him.Hmm, by whom? I didnt see something liek elections :-\
pls we have 4 governements and 4 communities. So we could have 8 revolutions running at the same time!!!! Beat that world
So...Vive la Revolution?
That image is actual Kiev central place, not a poster.
Ukraine's image could honestly be a movie poster; and I wouldn't be surprised that in years to come it was.
It was stormed by 30 armed guys. They killed two and wounded others and claimed the Crimea is Russian. Not exactly the same situation as in the west.No one died, btw.
I've got a (Dutch) article right here claiming otherwise. Can you show me proof on the contrary?http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/politics/3312086-v-rezultate-mytynha-v-symferopole-postradalo-35-chelovek-dvoe-umerlo-mynzdrav-ark
So still people died?In collisions between tartar protesters and local protesters of anti-maidan movement, which took place yesterday, not in capturing of building.
Say that then.Is of Ukrainian clay. Ukraina stronk! Ukraina relevant!
I read that the Tartars make like 12% of the population of the Crimea and 60% are Russians, put there by Stalin because Stalin was a dick. Let's hope we don't get the 'THIS CLAY IST MINE'-discussion.
Say that then.
Hmm, i said.I've got a (Dutch) article right here claiming otherwise. Can you show me proof on the contrary?
Two died in fighting yesterday, not today...
No one died, btw.
Say that then.Is of Ukrainian clay. Ukraina stronk! Ukraina relevant!
I read that the Tartars make like 12% of the population of the Crimea and 60% are Russians, put there by Stalin because Stalin was a dick. Let's hope we don't get the 'THIS CLAY IST MINE'-discussion.
No one died during the capture i meant.No one died, btw.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Inu_-0dcSU[/youtube]Sweet lies, right now this sector is claiming that they will scorch the lands of South-Eastern Ukraine. Oh scratch this, my view is biased, it's only peacefull revolutionaries, silly me.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Inu_-0dcSU[/youtube]MUH DICK
Pretty interesting Ukrainians refer to groups as if its World war 2, aka Facists versus Commies.SS Galichina well, in many things Right Sector are successors of that shite.
As far as Ukranian SS'ers go, it was either the Nazi's or the commies. Plus, after two decades of commie rule as that in Ukraine...Hell, even I had joined the Germans. I wonder how many people can say differently.Well, myself i'm part of Anti-maidan movement, and i'm against right sector.
Pretty interesting Ukrainians refer to groups as if its World war 2, aka Facists versus Commies.SS Galichina well, in many things Right Sector are successors of that shite.
If Arseniy Yatsenyuk thinks that Russia invaded Ukraine why doesn't he order army to defend the country? He want to rule country, so he should also take responibility for it's safety.
TORN, Russians claim that they don't occupy any part of Ukraine. They said, that those airports are property of Russian Army (Russians have own military base on Crimea), so even if they do block those airports, it's not any kind of 'invasion'. There are some 'unidentified' soldiers on Crimea, but they don't have any signs. Officially we can't say that they are Russians, Ukrainians or anyone else.
You do understand that more than a half of Crimea's population is Russian, yeah?
So you basically deny them their right for self-governing.SpoilerAnother biased opinion here.[close]
From the last official time they checked it:Spoilerросійська
1 890 960
78,75%
кримськотатарська
230 237
9,59%
українська
228 250
9,51%[close]
Who said anything about "excuse for invading"?
“No subdivision of the Black Sea Fleet has been advanced into the Belbek area, let alone involved in blocking it,” the spokesman said. “Given the unstable situation around the Black Sea Fleet bases in the Crimea, and the places where our service members live with their families, security has been stepped by the Black Sea Fleet’s anti-terror units.”
A man who identified himself as an officer of the Black Sea Fleet told the agency: “We are here . . . so as not to have a repeat of the Maidan.” He referred to the popular uprising at Kiev’s Independence Square that led to the ouster of pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych last weekend
From the last official time they checked it:Spoilerросійська
1 890 960
78,75%
кримськотатарська
230 237
9,59%
українська
228 250
9,51%[close]
Who said anything about "excuse for invading"?
We don't speak Russian.
I think this ordeal will only end with either western or Russian intervention.
This is really beginning to worry me. This isn't some stupid NK thing that distracts the world by saying they're going to blow us the fuck up, this is an actual entry of troops by the Russian Federation with no rights or permission to be there. Lets hope diplomacy will prevail, otherwise, shit might just hit the fan.
My favorite part from the article:QuoteA man who identified himself as an officer of the Black Sea Fleet told the agency: “We are here . . . so as not to have a repeat of the Maidan.” He referred to the popular uprising at Kiev’s Independence Square that led to the ouster of pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych last weekend
The Crimean peninsula would be a juicy piece of land for Russia..Why? It has no valuable resources, it's basemement doesnt have strategical importance.
Crimea is the only region in Ukraine that doesn't have a majority of Ukrainians. It's a Russian enclave in Ukraine. I know military spending has been cut back so that makes a lot of angry militarists and government contractors (russian companies mainly). Just wait and see as there's a possibility of miscalculation and events escalating out of control. Just seeing it as a piece of land is very bourgeois and imperialst way of seeing the world. - there's working class people living in the middle of this shit who aren't represented yet, the maidan protests was mainly middle class kids and fascist symphatisers.
South-Eastern region of Ukraine is giving Western region above of 50% of it's income as dotation (dont know how it in english). Ofc, personally, i dont want to pay money from my taxes to people, who arent working, and calling me russian slave.Crimea is the only region in Ukraine that doesn't have a majority of Ukrainians. It's a Russian enclave in Ukraine. I know military spending has been cut back so that makes a lot of angry militarists and government contractors (russian companies mainly). Just wait and see as there's a possibility of miscalculation and events escalating out of control. Just seeing it as a piece of land is very bourgeois and imperialst way of seeing the world. - there's working class people living in the middle of this shit who aren't represented yet, the maidan protests was mainly middle class kids and fascist symphatisers.
Sure Augy, sure.
Russia is doing a grant job making it look like they are doing this all on the wishes of the Ethic Russians. And there will be a 'referendum' whether to stay in Ukraine or join Russia. Of course, it will be a 99% Join-Russia-Result.
So we have the exact same casus giving 60% and 80%? Uhm...okay...Same feeling, when USA protecting their freedom in Libya or Somalia, or even in Syria. GG White House, gg.
So Russia pretty much invaded the Crimea and, if you ask me, is making it look like they are protecting the Crimean Russians cos Freedom and democracy. GG Putin, you did it again.
Well, good job on supporting Russia, because you can kiss the Crimea goodbye.Good job on supporting USA, good bye.
Well, good job on supporting Russia, because you can kiss the Crimea goodbye.Good job on supporting USA, good bye.
Putin's ignoring everything the international community is telling him not to do, its all down to the Russian Parliament but knowing Putin he'll do it anyway.
Here come the conspiracy theories.So if anyone opposes the mainstream narrative of the blatant bias western media they're a conspiracy theorist? I welcome that title.
Thing is, you probably believe it, and oppose it. But at the same time you support Russian invasions? Why like the one and hate the other?
Putin's using the BS excuse that its to "protect Russian citizens" when its the Russian/pro-Russian peoples in control of Crimea.That's the reason Germans had to settle westwards after WW2 so that Germany could not reclaim the territory because of its German inhabitants.
Ukranian parliament has thrown the ideas to remove Russian as a 2nd official language out of the window.Too late.
So, Russians are no longer in danger (not that they ever were), Putin can draw back his army and peace and harmony will reign forever. Da?
Because people should die because the Russian language wasn't stripped of its official status.No one hears new parliament, tbh.
You idiots watch the mainstream news too much. There is no good or bad guy here. The EU wants to increase influence in the region, and Russia wants to increase influence in the region. There are radicals on both sides (the armed Ukrainian fascists/the armed ethnic-Russian gunmen). Please, stop trying to simplify things.we aren't, we aren't saying the EU is the good guys no one is in this situation.
we aren't, we aren't saying the EU is the good guys no one is in this situation.
But the EU doesn't have over 8000 troops in Ukraine.
So shut the fuck up calling us idiots. Read before you comment.
SilentMan is a hipster, mainstream news is too mainstream...
As far as I know those airports and tv-stations weren't part of Russian territory.
The fact the Ukraine armed forces are put on combat alert means the governement doesn't want the Russians there.
Ethnic Russian militia groups so where are the troops Russia confirmed were in Crimea?
Honestly you believe the majority of the people living want to be with Russia? + because of this doesn't give Russia a legitimate reason for an 'invasion'.
I don't know which Ukrainian government is legitimate but if you still believe the previous one is still legitimate why should I argue with you because you would support a president who fled his country and still sees himself president.
SilentMan, stop being so coarse. There is no need for crude remarks, so keep them to yourself.He's using Ad Hominem, it is a legitimate strategy for debate and discussion... just not so much over the internet.
The Russian troops have not taken control of any territory.They blocked the entry to the Crimea, roads and airports, ukrainian troops in their base, administrative buildings and patrolling capital. How can you named that?
They are just stabilizing the region as of now.Stabilizing from what?what there were unstable before those military groups appears?
UN peacekeepers are so overrated anyway.Possibly the most definite description of the UN ever.
They blocked the entry to the Crimea, roads and airports, ukrainian troops in their base, administrative buildings and patrolling capital. How can you named that?
Stabilizing from what?what there were unstable before those military groups appears?
Over a hundred people die in the streets of Kiev, Russia does nothing.
There are some fights between pro and anti-protestors, 2 people die, and Russia sends in 6.000 troops and armored cars. Stabilizing, my ass. They are just grabbing the bit of Ukraine they need.
Then simply hold a fair election.
It isen't fair if your staring down barrels of russian soldiers.
Hell, since when are fair elections beeing held there...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2014/03/01/5-things-you-should-know-about-putins-incursion-into-crimea/
If they want to be Russian, there's a democratic way of achieving that. A Russian invasion is not the way.
The results of the 2010 elections aren't relevant anymore either, Yanukovych has lost support over the years and his flight from the country has made him even more unpopular, even amongst those who used to support him because he's shown incredible weakness, and in mosts eyes, cowardliness.
7:17 PM - FSE_Admiral: first time I wasn't even allowed to vote because of some stupid mistake
7:18 PM - FSE_Admiral: the results were so questionable that they decided for reovting on my district
7:18 PM - FSE_Admiral: and I actually took part, but the vote was falsified
7:18 PM - FSE_Admiral: basically, there was an oppositional candidate
7:18 PM - FSE_Admiral: and the pro-government candidate
7:19 PM - FSE_Admiral: but the pro-government candidate claimed he had nothing to do with the government and was for the EU and the revolution
7:19 PM - FSE_Admiral: as to the opposition candidate, they found and registered two people with exactly same surnames
7:19 PM - FSE_Admiral: to take part on the same district
7:19 PM - FSE_Admiral: and made fake organizations which they represented, sounding almost similar to the real oppositional organization
7:20 PM - FSE_Admiral: even I almost made a mistake when voting
7:20 PM - FSE_Admiral: obviously, most of the voters aren't aware of the candidate's full name or the full name of the party or organization, so quite a number of actual opposition votes was spread between theese two technical candidates
That's just not true. Those are pro-russian militia groups. Please read the other posts. ::)Sergei Aksenov, who calls himself the Prime Ministers of Crimea, acknowledged that to the protection of important objects are involved military forces of Russian Black Sea Fleet.
Sergei Aksenov, who calls himself the Prime Ministers of Crimea, acknowledged that to the protection of important objects are involved military forces of Russian Black Sea Fleet.
http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2014/03/1/7016750/
may you stop avoid obvious things?
and other...i can't find anything to say on it, this is utterly shit, sorry.
You are a Russian, SilentMan, aren't you?
I'd say, whatever happens in any vote, russia makes sure that what they want wins.
but the people in the Crimea have demonstrated that they want to be part of Russia. If the Crimeans want to be independent, Russia is doing a good job by protecting them from the new government who might see the secessionist movement as illegitimate.
Quotebut the people in the Crimea have demonstrated that they want to be part of Russia. If the Crimeans want to be independent, Russia is doing a good job by protecting them from the new government who might see the secessionist movement as illegitimate.
What is it? Independent or part of Russia? And actually, no, they did not show that. All they have done is remain calm while their land gets invaded, which is an understandable move. Troops aren't being greeted or cheered. There has been no vote, no actions by the new Ukrainian government, nothing. The 'new' PM of the Crimea is a fraud that was placed in power by the Russians.
And above all, Russia has no business in meddling with Ukrainian national affairs unless it's under UN mandate or if things reach an extreme level, and it's pretty clear that it isn't.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a08_1393696962
If they want to be Russian, there's a democratic way of achieving that. A Russian invasion is not the way.
The Russian military is not blocking off anything.Yes, they are
who might see the secessionist movement as illegitimate.Secessionist movement that needs a few thousand of soldiers to protect it is illegitimate itself.
I've read one Dutch journalist say that the deserting Ukrainian soldiers have actually no free choice. Though he stupidly gives no further information.
In any regard, we have a civil war at our hands, it seems.
Why has China been so quiet in all this?...
Why has China been so quiet in all this?...
"China has voiced concern over the continuing crisis in Ukraine and urged talks to resolve it. Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said China sticks to the principle of non-interference in any country's internal affairs and respects Ukraine's independence and territorial integrity, official Xinhua news agency reports"
Russia really has to back off, I don't know how the other EU countries are reacting to this, but there's been talk of readying for war in my country's media at least and demonstrations at the embassies.You're an American?
No I'm Finnish.Russia really has to back off, I don't know how the other EU countries are reacting to this, but there's been talk of readying for war in my country's media at least and demonstrations at the embassies.You're an American?
Anyways here in Belgium people are being awfully quiet about the whole thing. During the riots there was alot of media attention on it but now suddenly alot less.
And today I learned McEwan is the same age as me :p
The second Crimean war is about to start.
Sweden, forever neutral :D
If the Russians fully invaded Ukraine, the EU would have to go to war. Hell the US would need to go in to support it's allies.Countries need to do a lot of things, doesn't mean they do them. And believe me, the US does NOT need to do this, we may have signed a treaty, but intervening in a European war that barely involves us is the worst political decision we could make right now. Should just let Germany and the EU deal with it.
Would it be possible for the world to isolate Russia? For example: not allowing people with Russian passports to enter the country, refusing to participate in Russian events (such as the Sochi Olympics).
Where do I sign up for the Russian Foreign Legion?
A guy emailed the BBC
I'd imagine Crimea staying Ukranian would be the best course of action though. Losing the Black Sea Ports would cripple Ukraine's economy.
That's like saying 'What does it matter if the UK loses London? They got other cities!"+1
That's like saying 'What does it matter if the UK loses London? They got other cities!"
"You're stupid! You can't post! Nor question my posts!"You're embarrassing yourself.
"You're stupid! You can't post! Nor question my posts!"
SpoilerThat's like saying 'What does it matter if the UK loses London? They got other cities!"
holy fuck dude, will you just quit it already? why do you have such a boner for my posts? That is a ridiculous comparison. The Crimea is nowhere near as important as London is to the UK. Just. Stop. Posting. You don't know how to talk politics.[close]
This kind of talk will not happen here. Last warning."You're stupid! You can't post! Nor question my posts!"You're embarrassing yourself.
What happened to the post ww1 days when the world was so calm and nations minded their own business, and the European empires worked towards development and prosperity for all, albeit slowly.All this shit was began by EU, their effort by "colonizing" Ukraine cant be unseen by Russia in any time. It's not a secret, that maidan was supplied by moneys of USA and EU, but everything went not as planned, when Eastern Ukraine raised against the new goverment. Yesterday, in almost every city and town people went on streets and raised Russian flags over goverment building, hundreds thousands of people went to show their opinion about new goverment. Oh, yeah, western media wont show it, ofc.
... US and Russian problems.
Do you support Russia invading your country?I find it better then EU occupation and nationalists, leading country.
Well if Russia loses its naval base in Crimea it loses it's status as a global power.Russia could just move its fleet to another port. I mean Novorossiysk is a pretty big port with decent infrastructure as it has to deal with all the grain imports. It has the cranes, docks and I imagine space for the ships and 11,000 people, a bit of expansion might be needed though.
Well if Russia loses its naval base in Crimea it loses it's status as a global power.Russia could just move its fleet to another port. I mean Novorossiysk is a pretty big port with decent infrastructure as it has to deal with all the grain imports. It has the cranes, docks and I imagine space for the ships and 11,000 people, a bit of expansion might be needed though.
Here is the website for the commercial stuff http://www.nmtp.info/en/
Im not expert, Im just guessing. So please be nice to me :D
Crimea leads into Black Sea, that would not benefit Russia's international navy.Well if Russia loses its naval base in Crimea it loses it's status as a global power.Russia could just move its fleet to another port. I mean Novorossiysk is a pretty big port with decent infrastructure as it has to deal with all the grain imports. It has the cranes, docks and I imagine space for the ships and 11,000 people, a bit of expansion might be needed though.
Here is the website for the commercial stuff http://www.nmtp.info/en/
Im not expert, Im just guessing. So please be nice to me :D
I'm not sure whether it's true, but today Polish TV said that there's something wrong with ports in Russia and thus they need Crimea. Sea is not deep enough or bottom of the sea is somehow too sludgy or something like that.
I get all my news from reddit
Yeah, the parliament that's directly elected by EU citizens and which has gone trough a variety of different leaders since its start, clearly shows it's undemocratic nature.I don't recall having an election.
I get all my news from reddit so I don't get why silentman acts like he's so superior towards us?Oh, I was under the illusion that the black sea never freezes because it is on the same latitude as the South of France, weather does crazy things :D
And MagicTeatowel Russia has a military Naval base in Crimea and losing that will lose their only warm water naval port which would be a blow to them.
llllBanned
Fascists are serious, I come here to support the Ukrainians for a fascist state!This is a thread about the current happenings in Ukraine, not another ridiculous political ideology thread, so as I said, please refrain.
Edit:
Henry_Collins,
You have received a warning for making an inflammatory/unhelpful post in the attached discussion thread. Please cease these activities and abide by the rules located here, or further action will be taken.
Really?
I find it amusing that the blade of the scythe is the jewish flag.
What Putin is doing currently is basically what Hitler was doing in 1938 with the Czech Republic. And as back in that time, the world will stand by and do nothing about it. It was like that in 2008 in Georgia, it will be like this this time in Ukraine. Now we'll just have to wait until Putin wants some territory that another major power does not want them to have and we have the third World War.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Well the comparison is inevitable, don't you think?What Putin is doing currently is basically what Hitler was doing in 1938 with the Czech Republic. And as back in that time, the world will stand by and do nothing about it. It was like that in 2008 in Georgia, it will be like this this time in Ukraine. Now we'll just have to wait until Putin wants some territory that another major power does not want them to have and we have the third World War.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Putin is our saviour.
. But if we take into consiceration that during riots inspired by USA over 100 people have died and during Russian invasion noone has died so far, this drawing isn't very far from truth...
Would anyone of the prorussian people here explain to me why they think Putin and Russia is acting correctly here? I'd like to understand the other side's point of view.
You can't seriously be claiming that the hundred people who died in the riots died because of the USA.
Archduke, yup, in this situation I blame everything on the West. You won't understand, don't even try :P
ClearlyInvsible, no, you don't understand me. I'm just telling, that Ukraine isn't a country in the a void and everyone knows that. Only those who started revolution seems to forgot about that. If you do anything in politics, you should also take into consideration foreign politics. Klitschko, Yatsenyuk, EU, USA, all of them knew what will be result of revolution. They knew, that Russia is their neighbour, that half of population of Ukraine is more Russian than Ukrainian, and that Putin is dangerous player. But despite that, they started revolution and started anti-Russian politics just because 'EU gut, Russia evil, Ukraine can into west'. Politician cannot do what he want, he have to do what he can and what is good to his country. Yanukovych was doing his best to keep Ukraine alive. Russia was strong ally, economy was quite good, country was not involved in any kind of conflict. He wasn't perfect president, but at least he was a president. Now Ukraine have government which do nothing, army which do nothing, allies which do nothing, and neighbour who is taking part of Ukrainian territory. And all of that because of revolution...
You're fascinated by Asian cartoons for kids so you know...Woah, woah. Not all anime is for kids.
Duuring, no, I suggest one doesn't do anything stupid when he's in bad situation.
Death by EMP, you've been watching western media, haven't you? I've posted somewhere in this topic link to Canadian (CANADIAN! It's West!) organisation where you can read about how those protesters received money. In other sources I've also read about that. I'm talking mainly about those who were taking part in fighting against militia. Your logic at the end of post was too difficult even for me to understand :/ I don't know whether government were paying people to protest. Maybe they were I don't know. Now for sure they are not (old government is no more if you've noticed) and there are still protests in east of Ukraine.That's Canadian, not US, and it is 1 company, not the government. Any company can do that if they want, it's public war/crisis subsidies. In the same way people donate to Japan or Haiti when they have their natural crisis, people donate to Ukraine and Egypt when they have their political crisis. How do you blame what companies do with their own money (which happens to be backing up people who are fighting for the same political ideals the company has) on an entire people/ country/ government. I'm 100% sure Russian and Ukranian identites have been funding different insurrections in Ukraine as well. Also, your statement about anime is completely wrong and uninformed. Unlike MLP which has always been made and directed to young girls, with childish themes, anime is just a cartoon style, and has many different shows directed for all different groups of people, just as western cartoons have stuff for children (MLP) or stuff for older audiences (Family Guy, King of the Hill).
Please, if you negate news from eastern media, do negate also news from western media. You can't claim that western are good and eastern evil, because our discussion will have no sense then.
I won't even answer your bullshit about my maturity. You're fascinated by Asian cartoons for kids so you know... Still, I'm the one who have Tolstoy in his signature, and you're the one who has there even more cartoons.
You're fascinated by Asian cartoons for kids...He says when he watches 'My Little Pony', i don't agree with Russia's justification to invade Ukraine, UN is about to wisely apply economic sanctions on Russia.
You can't seriously be claiming that the hundred people who died in the riots died because of the USA.
Can't I? Riots on Ukraine were inspired by USA (and in smaller part also by rest of the West). People there were dying because USA told them, that they will have better life after revolution (some of them even recieved money for taking part in riots). I should also mention there people who used to shoot to rioters in one moment, and in the next turn around and open fire to militia just to instigate more fights (aye, there are probably even videos with such people, you should be able to find them if you want). How do you think, who ordered them to do such things? Russia? Yanukovych? Or maybe glorious USA? (don't stick now to the second part of my sentence, first one is more important ;) )
By the way, do you still suport this 'revolution'? Now, when you know what are its results? That because of it Ukraine is weak, occupied by foreign army, people are protesting in most of eastern cities and whole world may be one the egde of third world war. Do you still think that starting of revloution was good idea?
Millander, I'm not sure whether you're serious ot not :)
Duuring, are you serious now? I thought that you're intelligent person. With wrong views, but intelligent. Now you're trying to look more stupid than you in fact are. Learn something about history, then take encyclopedia and read definition of words 'independence', 'occupation', 'war', 'country' and 'Nazis'.
TORN, again, in opposition to you I'm looking at both - biased eastern media and biased western media. And I know that both of them are biased. Your arguments are getting worse with every post.So you look biased Eastern media and biased Western media? This makes you superior to all of us? And please how can you know I don't watch Eastern and Western media?
Your communism? Is there communism in Belgium? Or was it there?
Indeed.
Millander, I'm not sure whether you're serious ot not :)
Oh I am man. We Americans are evil as fuck and topple Eastern block countries for fun.
No he's serious, the US government loves fucking over people. Look a Iran, Guatemala, Panama, Nicaragua, Afghanistan, ect...Implying Poland and other countries weren't involved in Iraq and Afghanistan.
He seems to have forgotten the fact that his country, Poland, was involved in numerous NATO strikes in both Iraq and Afghanistan and fought along US troops numerous times. He can blame us though, Eastern Media forgets to mention Poland's involvement.QuoteTORN, again, in opposition to you I'm looking at both - biased eastern media and biased western media. And I know that both of them are biased. Your arguments are getting worse with every post.Not do you condemn everything the west does but you also seem to have a no problem if your country does it.
Your communism? Is there communism in Belgium? Or was it there?
this wall of text gives me a headacheDuuring, I didn't say that you're stupid. I just said, that you want to look stupid. That's big difference. If you got offended, then I have to apologize you, it wasn't my intention. And back on topic. Those situations are incomparable. Let stick to Napoleonic Era. So situation in Ukraine is rather like Poles declaring war to France and then asking Britain for help. That would be stupid. And that's what Ukrainian did. They turned against their only ally (which was in fact an ally, but rather kind of good lord, similar to relations between Poland and France in at the begining of XIX century, Napoleon needed Poles, and thus helped us, not because he liked us) and then they wanted help from other enemy of this old ally. Britain wouldn't give a fuck about us and Napoleon would destroy during campaign against Russia. But Poland didn't do it, Poland supported its ally in fight against Russia. There was good effect for some time, so it wasn't 100% stupid decision. Maybe helping Russia would be better, maybe we would get independace as ally of Russia and then together live happily ever after. Who knows... Of course this situation still is different than Ukrainian, as Ukraine is independent country and duty of Ukrainian is to do their best to make it stronger, not destroying government and turning country into hopeless ruin. By the way, I'm now 'fighting for what I believe against all odds'. Am I a hero now? :)[close]
Death, stop attacking Poland, it's not a topic of this discussion. I don't have to support everything my country is doing, and I in fact do not. You can make new topic 'Which of Polish actions Raddeo doesn't support' and then we will talk about it. Or maybe you want to make topic 'Why is anime better than ponies'? Go ahead, it will be nice flamewar discussion.Oh my god the hypocrisy is off the charts LMAOO! You're the one who started off by saying the US was the whole cause for this, now all of a sudden no other countries but Ukraine are a topic of this discussion? ...my sides are violently convulsing from laughter... Seems to me you just are saying this because your hypocrisy has been pointed out.
8 pages later and this thread is still full of idiots lol>implying that you aren't an idiot.
8 pages later and this thread is still full of idiots lol>implying that you aren't an idiot.
Ok kids keep acting like you know what you are talking about ::)
Ok kids keep acting like you know what you are talking about ::)
>implying he knows any better when he shows no proof
I've since learned that Raddeo is a very biased ultra-nationalist, and trying to argue with him is like trying to have a conversation with a wall. You can't. Save yourselves the trouble and just don't bother with Raddeo.
This is coming from a guy who thinks socialism works lol
Ok kids keep acting like you know what you are talking about ::)
>implying he knows any better when he shows no proof
This is coming from a guy who thinks socialism works lol
SilentMan, stop trying to take the intellectual high ground if you're going to say stuff like that, which has been explained to be false for you in previous discussions.Ok kids keep acting like you know what you are talking about ::)
>implying he knows any better when he shows no proof
This is coming from a guy who thinks socialism works lol
guyz!11! wurld wor tree is cumming!!!11!can't wait for the cod game based on it
If war breaks out I doubt it will be any longer than the Gulf War.
The talk typically is that it will be another cold war.THIS
US: We'll nuke you Red bastards!
RU: Oh, yeah? We'll nuke you back, you yank fucks!
UN: US, chill the fuck out, we're going to do this diplomatically.
US: Fuck that. I say we nuke them.
RU: If you nuke us, we'll nuke you.
US: Fuck you, faggot. We'll even let you nuke us first. Lay it on us.
RU: Oh, yeah? Fine.
US: Wait, if you nuke us, we'll nuke your nukes that are on flight to nuke our nuking silos that have nukes to nuke your country.
RU: Fuck this. I give up. Ukraine can have its land back:
UA: Yay! We get our shit back, fucking stupid Sowjets.
RU: Hey, fuck you Ukraine, we said we'll give you your land back. Prepare to get nuked!
UA: Don't nuke us!
US: Don't nuke them or we're going to nuke you.
UN: No one is going to nuke each other, we can talk this out...
Skip to the year 2033.
RU: We still have three nukes and two cities left, including our last city Cracchnisvopestiypoldock.
US: Oh yeah? We have four nukes, and still have two cities, NEW NEW NEW YORK CITY in Idaho and Woodtown! Our last few thousand people are still alive.
RU: Wait, this has gone too far.
UN: Yeah, it has. Every country from Poland to Belgium is wiped off the globe.
US: I'm sorry, Russia. We need to stop this.
RU: You're right, we do. Hey, where's the Ukraine?
UN: Completely flattened from all the nukes...
RU: So, there's no more Ukraine left? At all?
US and UN: Nope.
RU: Sukiy. This was all for nothing, guess we'll nuke ourselves.
RU shoots last nukes onto their last city of Cracchnisvopestiypoldock finalizing the removal of RU entirely.
US: Well, I guess that's that. The world's over now.
UN: Yup.
The end.
Socialist countries is the ones with highest living standards. Look at norway, sweden, netherlands, denmark. All socialist and all rich countries.Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Monaco
The following is a communique of the “Borotba” union and of the Centre of Antifascist Resistance in Ukraine. It first appeared at borotba.org.SpoilerUkraine is on the brink of fascist dictatorship.
The fascist threat... During the last year the former power and the forces of liberal opposition in Ukraine have made enough so that to make these words sound harmless and prevent Ukrainians from addressing the threat seriously. The pro-government forces used to organize, for their self-advertisement some pseudo-“anti fascist marches” though they failed to take effective actions to prevent the rise of power of the armed nationalist organizations. The oppositional block of liberals and nationalists could easily hit the clumsy rhetoric of the Ukrainian government. As a result, the term “fascism” has become vulgarized, deprived of its historical meaning and even used with a certain irony. Meanwhile, the process of legalization of the extremist far-right ideology in Ukraine was going on at a full pace.
What is fascism? Fascism is a generalized term denoting a bunch of political movements sharing some common ideologic features:
- The idea of superior position of some nations over others. The pervasive belief that a nation and its interests are more important than human rights and freedoms. (while the mere content of the “nation's interest” is being defined by leaders of such movements themselves and mass debates over the issue are suppresed).
– It’s blind praising of “historical traditions” (again, as they are understood by the rightwing idea-mongers). It’s the intrusive belief that the society needs no development, modernization and progress, but rather peculiar “return to the roots”, seen as a some magic means that are able to resolve all the problems and contradictions.
– It’s a hatred towards communism, socialism, ideas of egalitarism and social justice. The fascists set off against these ideas the doctrine of limitless power of the self proclaimed “social elite” that can ‘drive the cattle into stall’.
– The cult of force and violence. Readiness to kill all the political opponents.
And the ideologies of many different nationalist forces that set up a tone to modern Ukrainian policy – from the parlamentary party “Svoboda” to newborn “Right Sector” - correspond to these criteria.
Hundreds of thousands came out to the streets of Ukraine so that to protest against the corrupt regime of Janukovich late 2013. Naturally, not all Maydan-protesters are rightwing radicals (as it was ludicrously claimed by some reactionary propagandists of great Russian chauvinism – esp. notorious Russian TV star Kysylev and the like). The protest against the bankrupt ruling has gathered people of various beliefs. However, numerous protesters failed to notice that the leadership in this movement was seized by bearers of openly fascist ideology.
It should be stressed that on the Maydan scene there was actually no room to discuss social justice issues or even the most moderate economic reforms that are quite necessary for those who care about interests of the majority of the Ukrainian population, namely - the working class. Along with shoutings “Glory to the nation! Death to the enemy!” the so-called ‘revolutionaries’ have brought to the streets and squares not only red-black nationalist flags but also the overtly nazi symbols and flags with celtic crosses. Moreover, there appeared a lot of the disgust “wolf crosses” (signs associated with SS) on the walls. Brutal assaults and beatings of political opponents, covered up by so-called fight against “titushky” or governmental provocators, have become a daily normal practice. And the liberal groups of the protesters have quite consciously turned a blind eye to all these facts, proclaiming a union with far-right extremists a “revolutionary” need and a ‘temporal phenomenon’.
Well, Janukovich's regime has fallen. A new “people's power” has seized control over the most country. Is it high time, maybe, to follow democratic values that were so much discussed at the Maydan? Sadly, the reality suggests that such a hope is futile.
The very first days after the “victory of revolution’ saw the destruction of many monuments to V. I. Lenin. One can treat Soviet heritage differently but it is evident that the demolishion of the monuments without any approval of city councils and communities has nothing in common with democratic values.
While repeating ferocious proclamations about the necessity to fight separatist sentiments, MPs of the new majority in Parliament (Rada) remove the law that determines principles of the state language policies, therefore, they limit drastically the rights of Russian and other languages of national minorities in Ukraine. How can this step lead to the unity of the country? On the contrary – it will only deepen the contradictions between people in different regions.
Whilst indulging in resonating about the freedom of speech, the our “revolutionaries” introduce the most rigid censorship. The website of the movement “Stop censorship” (while criticizing one of the TV companies in Vinnitsa) threatens the journalists with a visit of armed fighters from the notorious “Right Sector”. In the meantime, MPs of “Svoboda” party propose a law limiting the broadcasting of foreign TV channels.
At the same time we witness a real terror-campaign against ideological opponents. Following the pogrom in the central office of the Communist Party of the Ukraine (that was close to the ex-power) , the far-right militants attacked Kiev office of ‘Borotba’ union that supports neither former regime nor the present one. The activists of ‘Borotba’ are threatened with death. And MP Javorivsky proposed the bill that cancels penalty for negation or public apology of nazi crimes.
The new power has immidiately promised to fight severely against any forceful actions of the opponents to Maydan. That’s why it approved the violence of the militarized nationalists. The new power immediately started legal proceedings against Yevgeny Zhilin, the leader of Kharchiv ‘Anti-maidan’ movement “Oplot”. But the leaders of the ‘Right Sector’ (like Alexander Musychko, who recently came to the session of Rivne regional council with an assault rifle) are promised to get positions in the Ministry of Interior Affairs
We have to acknowledge the very unpleasant fact: Ukraine is under a threat of imposing the worst type of dictatorship of the Third World countries: an alliance between the supporters of neoliberal economic policy and the fascist political practice. With the help of such system of rule – the new government pushes unpopular reforms that would lead to further impoverishment of the people. And coercive support to such kind of reforms is provided by far-right paramilitary units that should suppress any social protest.
The union “Borotba” calls all citizens of Ukraine opposing to such a development trend - to take part in the activity of the Centre of Antifascist Resistance. Anti-fascism now is not about support of the bankrupt and deposed regime of Janukovich. It is about self-organizing and uniting all those citizens who don't want to see our country slipping into the abyss of fascist dictatorship.
Instead of a misanthropic ideology of the far-righters, we put forward a set of top-priority demands that should lay a basis for social movement striving to real changes in the country:
1. To guarantee equal rights and freedoms for all citizens of the country, regardless of the language used and region of their living.
2. To stop the commercialisation of healthcare and education system, as well as the process of destruction of hospitals and schools. The public services should be accessable to everyone. Otherwise we’ll face the further extinction and degrading of our people.
3. To introduce full public control over the process of seting prices and tariffs for public utilities, primary necessities and public transport.
4. To ensure complete realization of the labor legislation as well as decent wages in all enterprises regardless of the form of property. To introduce the system of workers’ control in state enterprises.
5. To nationalize the largest enterprises and bring back the control over process of natural resources extraction to the people of Ukraine.
6. To abolish pension reform that raised the pension age. To prevent privatization of pension funds.
7. To liquidate offshore schemes used for transferring out of Ukrainian economy the capital created by labor of millions of Ukrainian people.
8. To create the necessary conditions for open democratic elections of central and local authorities, without predatory practice of bailment for the registration of candidates and party lists. To broaden the power of local authorities. To vest the results of national and regional referenda the with power of laws being mandatory to execute.
You can contact centre of anti-fascist resistance via e mail front@borotba.org. Join our common movement. Start to act now! Together we can save our country![close]
So, Admiral, as an Ukranian, do you think this really can come to war?
I mean, I, as a Dutchman, have my opinion but yours is probably more relevant.
The Russian currency fell 13%, so much that their central bank had to raise interest rates just to keep their economy "stable".. Their entire economy can plummet from not receiving enough foreign investments, so if they do start a war then it will just hurt them even more. (Yea all global economies are hurting at the same time, but not as much as Russia's right now) Along with many countries imposing economic sanctions..
Russia's Black Sea Fleet has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 5:00 local time (03:00 GMT) on Tuesday to surrender or face an all-out assault, according to Ukrainian defence ministry sources quoted by Interfax-Ukraine news agency. "If by 5am tomorrow morning they do not surrender a real assault will begin on units and sections of the Ukrainian armed forces all over Crimea," defence ministry officials are quoted as saying. So far there is no further confirmation of the ultimatum from other sources.
only Montenegro can save us now.
only Yorkshire can save us now.
The lack of sources posted here for 'facts' hurts my soul :'(
Well, my country is part of the NATO, so if it comes to war, the army will (or might) go and they will tell us civilians 'no no, everything is fine, carry on making money and keep the economy okay!'.
We might see the draft act being activated again - and guess who's in the latest draftyear?
QuoteThe lack of sources posted here for 'facts' hurts my soul :'(
THAT.
Actually, my largest hopes are on Poland and Turkey.
Poland would probably get involved, as would turkey, then america and britain, possibly france and germany later, kinda the factions of the last crimean war with a few more.QuoteThe lack of sources posted here for 'facts' hurts my soul :'(
THAT.
Actually, my largest hopes are on Poland and Turkey.
only Russia can save us now.
Poland would probably get involved, as would turkey, then america and britain, possibly france and germany later, kinda the factions of the last crimean war with a few more.
Enough. Stop posting here since you can't take it seriously.
I've noted that too. I'm afraid people won't care until the consensus is to do so. Concerning Poland and Turkey; Turkey is a bit of a loose cannon, but I really don't see Poland doing anything without NATO support.
In 12 hours we might have a Ukraine-Russia war at our hands, and what happens after that...
Enough. Stop posting here since you can't take it seriously.
only Poland can save us now.
We might see the draft act being activated again - and guess who's in the latest draftyear?It sounds that you're against Russia just to aviod going to army, not to help Ukraine.
Turkey is a member of the NATO i think that would be the main reason of it's involvement?
Turkey is a member of the NATO i think that would be the main reason of it's involvement?
NATO is not compelled to react unless they are being attacked. Just because someone in NATO starts, or becomes involved in a war, doesn't been that the rest of NATO has to get involved. It is a defensive treaty.
Turkey is a member of the NATO i think that would be the main reason of it's involvement?
Admiral, don't count on me. I'm not going to die to protect ones who cheerfully cries 'heroyam slava!', glorify UIA and prefer to choose new governments in riots than in democratic votings. So most of my folks don't want to go on such war.
I love how the Poles make jokes about the French, who without we would not have a Poland today. Anyway, I bet you'd like some help of Poland decided to attack Poland.NATO is not compelled to react unless they are being attacked. Just because someone in NATO starts, or becomes involved in a war, doesn't been that the rest of NATO has to get involved. It is a defensive treaty.
But this is a defensive action.
What does Article 5 mean?
Article 5 is at the basis of a fundamental principle of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation. It provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked.
This is the principle of collective defence.
I could be wrong, but wasn't it the Ukrainian government that outed the president and which has not changed its form (so many seats for that party etc)anyway?
However, a short while later various news outlets reported that Russia's defence ministry had dismissed the ultimatum as "utter nonsense".http://www.channel4.com/news/ukraine-russia-hague-putin-g7-war
QuoteI could be wrong, but wasn't it the Ukrainian government that outed the president and which has not changed its form (so many seats for that party etc)anyway?
Not exactly. It was the parliament, and indeed, the parliament's cast is the same, just that some deputees changed the factions and the new majority was formed. After that they switched to the old constitution of 2004, which made Ukraine a parliamentary-presidential state. That constitution has been illegally cancelled by Yanukovich back in 2010.
Sorry who in NATO is being attacked here? Ukraine is not part of NATO. Poland, or any other NATO force, attacking Russia in defense of Ukraine does not make them the victim and won't trigger a NATO defense.
Thanks. This is pretty major. People can shut up about their 'illegal revolutionary governments'.
Sorry who in NATO is being attacked here? Ukraine is not part of NATO. Poland, or any other NATO force, attacking Russia in defense of Ukraine does not make them the victim and won't trigger a NATO defense.
As in a NATO nation or Ukraine?
Are they not already a victim, seeing as they have been invaded by Russia? Wouldnt an attack now simply be in defense?
The Budapest Memorandum was signed by Russia too, but apparently they don't see it as binding anymore.
The Budapest Memorandum was signed by Russia too, but apparently they don't see it as binding anymore.
Damn this is scary. Some of my friends are mobilized into army, I can be next :(As a Russian, do you support Russia's actions? I am really curious about that.
I'm actually UkrainianDamn this is scary. Some of my friends are mobilized into army, I can be next :(As a Russian, do you support Russia's actions? I am really curious about that.
Oh LOL. ;D My bad, I always thought you were Russian :oI'm actually UkrainianDamn this is scary. Some of my friends are mobilized into army, I can be next :(As a Russian, do you support Russia's actions? I am really curious about that.
I'm actually UkrainianDamn this is scary. Some of my friends are mobilized into army, I can be next :(As a Russian, do you support Russia's actions? I am really curious about that.
'US State Dept says they are preparing to put sanctions on Russia and are "moving down that path"'
Russia sent armed forces to the Polish and Lithuanian border.
God help you guys. I wish the US would set in here and force Russia down but everyone I've talked to here is scared shitless.If you want to get technical, they are in a way, doing that with Poland. Poland gets most of their military supplies and technologies from the US, we have been very close military allies for a while now.
Ukraine shall live on!
I think the Ukrainians have a chance militarily but most of that hopefulness comes from comparing them to post-Revolutionary France which the Ukraine is not...
God help you guys. I wish the US would set in here and force Russia down but everyone I've talked to here is scared shitless.
God help you guys. I wish the US would set in here and force Russia down but everyone I've talked to here is scared shitless.
God help you guys. I wish the US would set in here and force Russia down but everyone I've talked to here is scared shitless.If you want to get technical, they are in a way, doing that with Poland. Poland gets most of their military supplies and technologies from the US, we have been very close military allies for a while now.
God help you guys. I wish the US would set in here and force Russia down but everyone I've talked to here is scared shitless.
You guys are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
If you help Ukraine: "Fucking Americans only helping US for territory gains, oil, trade, dollar imperialism blah blah"
If you don't: "Cowards, not honouring their treaties! Scare of the Russians! blah blah"
God help you guys. I wish the US would set in here and force Russia down but everyone I've talked to here is scared shitless.
Just cause America has a (Yet to be seen) more powerful army doesnt mean they can tell Russia to stand down.
UN
The US doesn't even have a military option in stopping him because of the potential nuclear fallout which everyone seems to forget. So it'll be economically based and up to NATO/UN to stop him diplomatically or via sanctions. Last Last Last resort is us military intervention (highly doubt it'll come to that)
Didn't he make a public statement saying he didn't want force being used?
Yanukovych? Oh no, he made a statement saying he would fight to get back into power, by that he means sucking off Putin for his help.
All these countries should create a trade embargo with Russia and cut off all foreign direct investment, this will hurt our economies but devastate Russia's to a point where they will have to negotiate diplomatically.... Unless their insaneIsn't that sort of what happened with Japan and the Second World War? Or am I mistaken?
All these countries should create a trade embargo with Russia and cut off all foreign direct investment, this will hurt our economies but devastate Russia's to a point where they will have to negotiate diplomatically.... Unless their insaneIsn't that sort of what happened with Japan and the Second World War? Or am I mistaken?
I assume somebody already posted this, but I'll do it again.Spoiler[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX7V6FAoTLc[/youtube][close]
So you'd rather want a bloody conflict with thousands of dead people?
Did the Europeans lose their balls after the major conflicts @ start of the last century :(?It is a lot easier to justify military intervention when you have exhausted all peaceful efforts, not attempting to do so and resorting to a similar knee-jerk reaction would only escalate the conflict.
As someone from the EU, I am just fucking ashamed by the lack of any sort of response that might scare Putin in any sort of way, instead we get ''Please pull your troops back Mr Putin, or we might... sanction you with, erh... sanctions!''
Fuck off, move our troops to the border and show some balls.
Don't you think if other states would put their troops into the Ukraine, Russia would take this as an offensive act against them. As Matthew said, military actions should be the absolute last resort if everything else fails.So you'd rather want a bloody conflict with thousands of dead people?
Read.
I want us to send a strong message and at least be prepared for the worst, instead of just sitting about and holding meetings with the UN and other security organizations. There is a major difference.
Don't you think if other states would put their troops into the Ukraine, Russia would take this as an offensive act against them. As Matthew said, military actions should be the absolute last resort if everything else fails.So you'd rather want a bloody conflict with thousands of dead people?
Read.
I want us to send a strong message and at least be prepared for the worst, instead of just sitting about and holding meetings with the UN and other security organizations. There is a major difference.
So you'd rather want a bloody conflict with thousands of dead people?
Hey guys, I'm back from work, I'm probably going to get fired tomorrow, did the world blow up yet?
sure as hell some good music thoughI assume somebody already posted this, but I'll do it again.Spoiler[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX7V6FAoTLc[/youtube][close]
Typical Vietnam era music made by completely stoned hippies.
sure as hell some good music thoughI assume somebody already posted this, but I'll do it again.Spoiler[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX7V6FAoTLc[/youtube][close]
Typical Vietnam era music made by completely stoned hippies.
There was also shitty music of the 60s.. anyway, going off-topicSpoilerpls dont ban[close]
3 Hours till the ultimatum that supposedly suddenly doesn't exist.Slova Ukraine! Remove the stalinist putin from your sovereign lands!
I will probably be asleep as many others including international leaders when the first Ukrainian soldiers will loose their lives.
I hope for the best.
Slav Ukraine!
Слава Україні!
REMOVE PIEROGI FROM THE PREMISES!
http://annies-eats.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/pierogi.jpg
What's this about 3 hours until shots fired?
so Australia has gotten involved with this too...Well on a good note, Russians are easier to kill than Emus.
Our prime minister released a statement a couple days ago saying that Russia should get out of the Ukraine..
militarily, we are in no position to be making threats to other countries.. especially Russia.
so Australia has gotten involved with this too...
Our prime minister released a statement a couple days ago saying that Russia should get out of the Ukraine..
militarily, we are in no position to be making threats to other countries.. especially Russia.
Beat you to it m8so Australia has gotten involved with this too...
Our prime minister released a statement a couple days ago saying that Russia should get out of the Ukraine..
militarily, we are in no position to be making threats to other countries.. especially Russia.
Yeah you guys couldn't even beat a bunch of Emu's, let alone the Russians. GG 8)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War
Beat you to it m8so Australia has gotten involved with this too...
Our prime minister released a statement a couple days ago saying that Russia should get out of the Ukraine..
militarily, we are in no position to be making threats to other countries.. especially Russia.
Yeah you guys couldn't even beat a bunch of Emu's, let alone the Russians. GG 8)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War
so Australia has gotten involved with this too...
Our prime minister released a statement a couple days ago saying that Russia should get out of the Ukraine..
militarily, we are in no position to be making threats to other countries.. especially Russia.
Yeah you guys couldn't even beat a bunch of Emu's, let alone the Russians. GG 8)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War
Russia is not the militiary superpower it act likes.It's true, technology wise they are still in the late 90's early 2000s, even Poland has more advanced military technology than them. Russia's strong suit military wise would be their air force, imo. They have some damn good aircraft, if a little outdated.
Problem is God knows how many of the soldiers will actually fight. I mean after what happened with Bekrut I'm not sure on trusting the Ukrainian military.
Also Yanukovich was reported to have died from a "Heart Attack"Not verified. I doubt it.
Link (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fkorrespondent.net%2Fukraine%2Fpolitics%2F3314397-aktyvyst-evromaidana-v-Facebook-utverzhdaet-chto-yanukovych-skonchalsia-ot-serdechnoho-prystupa-smy&act=url)
"Our actions are often described by the West as not legitimate, but look at US operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.
"Our actions are legitimate from the point of view of international law, because Ukraine's legitimate president asked us for help
"Defending these people is in our interests, this is a humanitarian mission, we do not want to 'enslave' anyone."
I found this quite interesting:
President Putin: "Our actions are often described by the West as not legitimate, but look at US operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. "Our actions are legitimate from the point of view of international law, because Ukraine's legitimate president asked us for help. "Defending these people is in our interests, this is a humanitarian mission, we do not want to 'enslave' anyone."
We all know "Defending the ukrainian people" is nothing more than a casus belli for Europeans and Americans. - you don't give a fuck or else people would talk about chemical weapons being used again in Syria.Those groups are a small minority. Most Ukrainians don't want anything to do with those Nazi's.
Besides, the West has done enough damage supporting Svoboda and Right Sector.
international countryballs polandball country strong can into nordic clean toilets nationalism seriousness nordic circlejerk vikings history warriors old glory days conquering world wars languages autism beating other country in sportI approve this comic strip.Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.naamapalmu.com%2Ffiles%2Fgh%2Fbig%2Fnzh1wtb6.png&hash=46805b4f11a7d31e7e8b0002052b3c02ecb94f69)[close]
Augy, you do realize intervention in Syria was blocked by the Russians, right? Besides, I don't exactly see you rising up in arms. Talk about not giving a fuck.
Lets say i'm not though, for hypothetical reasons. anyhow, I probably shouldn't admit anything on the internet.
For the people saying that the new Ukrainian government is Fascist.... You do realise Russia is pretty much a fascist dictatorship at the moment right?but its not tho m8, its closer to corporatocracy than corporatism.
A crew of a Ukrainian navy command ship has fought off an attempted takeover of the vessel by armed men, Ukraine's Interfax news agency reports.
The armed men approached the Slavutich vessel in a tug boat, but failed in their attempt to seize the ship, Ukrainian navy spokesman Vitaliy Zvyahintsev was quoted as saying.
Also, The Russian military says it has launched a Topol RS-12M missile from its Kapustin Yar test range near the Caspian Sea to the Sary Shagan range in Kazakhstan.
Here's the link for my info: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26428296
Also:
News of Tuesday's missile test came after the US accused Russian forces of an "act of aggression" in Crimea.
Can I have a link to the article?
For those who were crying about Yanukovych palace, Russian media released some photos of houses of Maidan leaders (basing on both Russian and Ukrainian sources).Yulia Tymoshenko(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Focdn.eu%2Fimages%2Fpulscms%2FYjc7MDMsMjZjLDAsMCwx%2F4d2dd3872cf251e87523e90cfb4e9d49.jpg&hash=e963d44abbf5977251c84f6e9b092f26ec2d9f55)[close]Vitali Klitschko(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Focdn.eu%2Fimages%2Fpulscms%2FMDI7MDMsMjZjLDAsMCwx%2F81ced9ddf3136496891eaa4818d6ed20.jpg&hash=ae8d90173d6823f988424883061977d677ed2193)[close]Arseniy Yatsenyuk, 'neighbour' of Yanukovych, his palace is in the same village(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Focdn.eu%2Fimages%2Fpulscms%2FZDg7MDMsMjZjLDAsMCwx%2F94e9ffb983f225a9e25a9e97275fea95.jpg&hash=f02c05e9d3c5cc87bf1bf7dd337c3352f38e2f36)[close]Petro Poroshenko(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Focdn.eu%2Fimages%2Fpulscms%2FMDU7MDMsMjZjLDAsMCwx%2F7afb91116c59e8fab4bb67066334f3f9.jpg&hash=7bf0997b624c7ea50625d3b5d365dc3012c7b982)[close]
I believe that talking that Yanukovych was bad because he had big house has no more sense.
BBC Live Feed - This news bears repeating: The same district administrative court in Kiev (see 22:09 entry) ruled that the move to hold a local referendum on the status of Crimea was "illegal". The referendum was approved by the Crimean regional parliament in the same vote that elected Serhiy Aksyonov as prime minister.
Vince, how come you get to wear a GIF signature and we don't? :(Because, Ukrain needs support... and if Russians can break laws so can I? :P
Vince, how come you get to wear a GIF signature and we don't? :(
I know everyone's done it, but it's the bloody 21st century! You'd think these nations with idiotic persecution laws would get a wee bit smarter after a while.
Since the forums were nerfed.Vince, how come you get to wear a GIF signature and we don't? :(
We dont ? :O since when ?I know everyone's done it, but it's the bloody 21st century! You'd think these nations with idiotic persecution laws would get a wee bit smarter after a while.
Look at the Situation of the Sinti and Roma in Romania (which alone should have been reason enough to not let Romania join the EU) ... just because the Western Countrys act like they are beyond this kind of discrimination and persecution of minorities and care so much about it doesnt mean that thats really the case.
In the end the buisness interests involved in this (one of the main pipelines for gas for the EU runs through the Ukraine) will prevent the EU from taking a strong stance gainst russia in this conflict and like the Georgia conflict in 08 showed as long as russia acts with caution and stages elections like in crimea now their strategy of aggression can be pretty successfull.
Given what happened in 08 in Georgia my guess is that we will end up with a autonom Territory in Crimea under Russian influence and "protection". There isnt really much the Ukraine can do against that at this point. Militarily they are no match for russia and as I said earlier I think a military involvment of the west is highly unlikely.
my poor signature . How mean !!! :'(
And that russia has troops on the ground (read sth of bout 6k soldiers) doesnt really suprise any1 does it ?
This would be the first war between two internet-age countries. Would be interesting.
Russia isn't western, the commy area is called east Europe for a reason.This would be the first war between two internet-age countries. Would be interesting.
It would also be the first war between western powers since WW2, no?
Not sure if the Russians had groundtroops in Korea.
This would be the first war between two internet-age countries. Would be interesting.This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_war) not internet age enough for you?
Russia isn't western, the commy area is called east Europe for a reason.This would be the first war between two internet-age countries. Would be interesting.
It would also be the first war between western powers since WW2, no?
Not sure if the Russians had groundtroops in Korea.This would be the first war between two internet-age countries. Would be interesting.This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_war) not internet age enough for you?
I'm terrified about what's gonna happen with the Tatars.
Knowing the Russian gov't it's going to be either mass deportation or another glorious "Chechnya" situation. Fuckin' joy...
Just patiently waiting for terrorist attacks on Russia.Only if internal affairs workers are sleeping or absent, dont forget the Federal Security Service
Chechnyan insurgency and terrorism along with future Crimean tartar insurgencyIt's almost impossible, there are troops in Crimea, lets face it, tatars didnt attack them yet, because the majority of people in country supporting Russia. The insurgency is possible when there's support of people and there are weapons for them (there's no weapon spawn irl), so yeah. Wait for that if you want.
I'm terrified about what's gonna happen with the Tatars.
Knowing the Russian gov't it's going to be either mass deportation or another glorious "Chechnya" situation. Fuckin' joy...
Quit crying like babies, nothing's gonna happen.
And this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatarstan) is for you.
Troops gotta leave some day.
I'm really just waiting for the Russians to do something stupid. Maybe kidnapping the UN Representative?
Oh please, they only talk about that the sniper shots have allegedly been from the same weapon, and it leaves open who actually hired said sniper and that there are RUMORS going around in kiev that it might even be from the opposition.
He complains nobody is putting much work into investigating what went down.. which if that is true should be resolved, then again I'd say trying to pull a country out of the ditch it is in right now and with Russia almost starting a war, It's understandable they have other things on their minds.
Then Talks about returning stability putting cops back on the street etc etc.. I agree fully with that.
I agree it has to be investigated...
But bluntly saying it must be the opposition, because rumors is just stupid.. Why wouldn't Russia hire said Snipers? They wanted to escalate the situation all along so they could send their army..
Immediately putting the blame on the current opposition without any proof is silly.
It could be berkut, it could be anyone thats why it has to be INVESTIGATED.
This all is based on rumors.
"all the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and then people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides,"
Where is this evidence, once again there is no evidence there are rumors of supposed evidence.It could be berkut, it could be anyone thats why it has to be INVESTIGATED.
This all is based on rumors.Quote"all the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and then people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides,"
Why would Russia hire people to kill protesters and purposely make Yanukovych look bad? And there was no reason for Russia to escalate the conflict.
"What was quite disturbing, this same Olga told that, well, all the evidence shows that people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides," Paet said.
"So she also showed me some photos, she said that as medical doctor, she can say it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets."
Same type of bullets, meaning the same weapon type was used, for instance an AK74/Dragnov ?
Spoiler(https://i.imgur.com/Cb2x6Yx.jpg)[close]
And you say Joseph is in denial? They look exactly the same! Hell in the bottom right and top left she's even wearing a similar looking jacket!
What? They look nothing alike. "Facial recognition technology" hahaha. Nice try though ::)
Sure, and I'm sure she lives in Kiev, Odessa and Kharkiv. Loads of people have 3 different residences in short distance to eachother.
I'm not a blind man, if you can show me proof that those bullets came from the same gun, I'll believe you.
You don't take one source's word as gospel. I need more than that.
Yes I know I'm being a skeptical asshole, but in this day and age things can be faked easier than ever.
You're basically posting the same video five times over. I mean multiple sources showing different incidents, not many sources talking about a singular call.
Show me something like pictures of non-Police snipers firing on civvies, or reports from citizens.
So she also showed me some photos, she said that as medical doctor, she can say it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and it's really disturbing that now the new coalition, that they don't want to investigate what exactly happened.
Because it's only one report. One report was enough to throw the US headfirst into the shitstorm that was Iraqi Freedom, and after that I'm not keen on believing one piece of the pie.
So she also showed me some photos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8
Bugged call proving that the snipers were not used by Yanukovych, but by Maidan leaders.Quote"all the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and then people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides,"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5n8UbJ8jsk
Basically, they are talking about who they are going to install as the new government leaders.
Yeah, the west is definitely not pulling any strings here..
(https://i.imgur.com/Cb2x6Yx.jpg)go away conspiracy theorist :^)
https://i.imgur.com/gallery/Cb2x6Yx
Interesting. What's all this then?
Where is the proof of this? There are rumors the minister mentioned... it does not automatically make them true.Because it's only one report. One report was enough to throw the US headfirst into the shitstorm that was Iraqi Freedom, and after that I'm not keen on believing one piece of the pie.
What more evidence do you need? Even these officials are sure it was the opposition who were the snipers, and they were the ones who wanted Yanukovych removed.
These are the Estonian foreign minister and an EU representative speaking, who are admitting that the snipers were from the opposition, who admitted there was physical evidence to prove so. I'm sorry, but you're hopeless.They admitted jack shit, they only spoke about rumors.
QuoteSo she also showed me some photos
The man in the video admitted there was photographic evidence. If you are still this delusional, I can't help you.
I don't need to show you anything different, as the officials in the video said, there were already rumors of such thing but the doctor who talked to the EU official in the recording proved it.What photographic evidence?, the quote your give me is that the foreign minister heard just that its the same type of bullets, nowhere is mentioned its the exact same weapon used.
Let me post this again:QuoteSo she also showed me some photos, she said that as medical doctor, she can say it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and it's really disturbing that now the new coalition, that they don't want to investigate what exactly happened.
Why would these officials lie about it? They are the ones who support Euromaidan.
Ukraine crisis: bugged call reveals conspiracy theory about Kiev sniperhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory
Where is the proof of this? There are rumors the minister mentioned... it does not automatically make them true.
These are the Estonian foreign minister and an EU representative speaking, who are admitting that the snipers were from the opposition, who admitted there was physical evidence to prove so. I'm sorry, but you're hopeless.
They admitted jack shit, they only spoke about rumors.
There is no physical evidence proving oposition hired snipers.. lol.
I don't need to show you anything different, as the officials in the video said, there were already rumors of such thing but the doctor who talked to the EU official in the recording proved it.
Let me post this again:QuoteSo she also showed me some photos, she said that as medical doctor, she can say it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and it's really disturbing that now the new coalition, that they don't want to investigate what exactly happened.
Why would these officials lie about it? They are the ones who support Euromaidan.QuoteWhat photographic evidence?, the quote your give me is that the foreign minister heard just that its the same type of bullets, nowhere is mentioned its the exact same weapon used.If these pictures exist and this woman is real, why are these things not investigated and her findings published?
Now don't come with your big conspiracy theory of them putting it all in the freezer, if a random Estonian foreign minister was able to hear about this rumors, so would anyone else.
You are blinded by propaganda and there is no point in even trying. I wish you a happy life in the United States, where there are no Kremlin Russians taking over your country,
Finally there is an open letter to putin that disproves all this propaganda lies about nazi's in Kiev.
http://maidantranslations.com/2014/03/05/open-letter-of-ukrainian-jews-to-russian-federation-president-vladimir-putin/
You, guys, are just hilarious. When someone says anything anti-eastern then no proofs are needed, of course - East is evil and proofs aren't necessary. But when something anti-western appears, then without iron proofs it's just propaganda and billshit. But of course, when proofs are strong enough and you simply can't claim that it's russian propaganda anymore, you just cry 'lol, it was always like that'. Obviously, wars and army weren't always there, Putin invented them to enslave free western world. But in the same time hiring snipers to kill civilians just to instigate them to die in fights against legal militia is something completly normal. This topic is better that circus...
THEY DID IT!
The Crimea is now, by decree of their new pro-Russian PM, part of Russia.
The parliament said if its request was granted, Crimean citizens could give their view in a referendum on 16 March.
I've got two Dutch newspages saying otherwise. That the government of the Crimea (remember, the 4% guys) had a vote and decided it.
Soo... referandum is bad, because majority of Crimea citizens have different views that you are? Isn't it an idea of referendum? That majority (pro-Russian in this case) will decide?It is illegal, Crimean parliament just didn't have the rights according to constitution to make any referendum.
Cos Russia is powerful and nobody wants a war.
Please, stop comparing Vladimir Putin to Hitler. As far as I know, Putin isn't sick murderer who's going to gas or shoot all Ukrainians. And then all Poles. And Germans. And whole world! Jawohl! Hitler wasn't evil because he started war with other country, he was evil because he wanted to murded half of human population. Putin is just president of country and is doing his best to make his country stronger. As long as he's not going to kill everyone who's not Russian or Slav you don't have right to compare him with Hitler. It's just normal war/intervention/invasion. County leaders were always using war to make their country stronger. 21st century isn't different in any way.
Why did you make some random words in my post bolder? ???
Hitler wasn't evil because he started war with other country, he was evil because he wanted to murded half of human population.
Secondly, right, because Hitler before 1 September 1939 was like little sweet lamb and for sure was not claiming that Germans are best nation in the world and should rule the world and crash every other nation.
It's just normal war/intervention/invasion.
First of all, we're Poles, not polocks. But maybe it's simply too difficult to you to show at least a bit of respect to your interlocutor...
Secondly, right, because Hitler before 1 September 1939 was like little sweet lamb and for sure was not claiming that Germans are best nation in the world and should rule the world and crash every other nation. But maybe you didn't notice that part of my post?QuoteHitler wasn't evil because he started war with other country, he was evil because he wanted to murded half of human population.
I modified my last post instead of writing new one ;) Silly me.
Are you serious? 'just a normal war' ?yes, just a normal war, nothing extra... you know, some short victorious war
The kremlin is known to support Neo Facistic groups in Russia.
First of all, we're Poles, not polocks. But maybe it's simply too difficult to you to show at least a bit of respect to your interlocutor...
Secondly, right, because Hitler before 1 September 1939 was like little sweet lamb and for sure was not claiming that Germans are best nation in the world and should rule the world and crash every other nation. But maybe you didn't notice that part of my post?QuoteHitler wasn't evil because he started war with other country, he was evil because he wanted to murded half of human population.
I modified my last post instead of writing new one ;) Silly me.
Well didn't know you found 'polacks' offensive, in Swedish the people of Poland are 'Polacker', didn't know it had negative connotations in English.
Furthermore, you do realise that Vladimir Putin is a Fascist dicator that promotes ultra-nationalism and allows Neo-Nazi groups and their violence. While Putin is not quite yet of the same calibre as Mr. Hitler, if we allow him to get away with disregarding other nations sovereignity while making his own Russian Empire stronger, who knows how long it will take him to be capable of committing the same crimes as Hitler. He needs to be put in his place now, lest we want to threaten the existance, independence and livelyhood of all European nations.
Not neccesarily Putin is bound to turn out like Hitler, but as it is going now he is showing good progress in his steps to becoming his idol.
Putin is a fucking russophobe and in no way anything nationalistic is supported by the government, let alone nazist or fashist.
QuotePutin is a fucking russophobe and in no way anything nationalistic is supported by the government, let alone nazist or fashist.
Oh right, sure, of course, all evidence on the contrary can be thrown out of the window now.
No no
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/02/is-venezuela-burning/
Written by people with downarchism syndrome
The new Ukrainian government represents two of the biggest Ukrainian nationalist parties - Svoboda and Right Sectors who are basicly Ukrainian neo-nazis. They still threathen to carry out terrorist actions against pro-Russian Ukrainians and organize similar riots along with the Russian nazis to overthrow Kreml. Also, the new Ukrainian gov. and EU's anti-Russian policy is the main reason and justification of the occupation of Crimea and possible occupation of Eastern Ukraine. In fact it was a provocation from USA and EU which led to Putin's decision to intervene.
In Dutch news now;
Hundreds of millions of euros and assets are now property of the Dutch state and will be given to the new Ukrainian state.
These assets were put into on-paper companies owned or filled by corrupt politicians from Ukraine Like the ex-president.
Evidence of how this money was stolen from the Ukrainian budget was used to seize these assets.
Duuring, maybe statring revolution in country which was Russian ally? Don't you think?That's like Poland invading Belgium cos the Walloons declared independence.
I'm not sure if I understand it correct. You mean, that Dutch government took private money and properities of Ukrainian politicians just because someone said that you're evil and have stolen this money? Without any kind of real investigation? And you claim that it's fine? It seems like kind of sick communistic revolution. You know - 'Take money from rich and give it to workers! Uraaa! Long live Lenin!'. Does law in Dutch really allow government to steal private properity of citizens of other countries?
There is no 'invasion' taking place. Crimea asked for protection against the new Verkhovna Rada which is not representative for the population of South- and East Ukraine. Russian soldiers and Berkut were met as heroes and liberators by the people. Putin possibly prevented a civil war from taking place between western and eastern Ukrainians.
How on earth do they not have the right to secede when being an autonomous republic? That's not to mention that the current Ukrainian parliament is not juridically legitime.
Netherlands invading Belgium to protect the Flemish people because they speak dutch, because the evil french speaking wallonians are Fascist because we say so and will violate their human rights.... Wait there are hundreds of thousands of Flemish Belgians already fleeing to the Netherlands to escape the fascist violence of the wallonians!!!!! we MUST INVADE NOW!
same shit man.
Explain to me how the Ukrainian parliament is not legitimate.
QuoteThe vote was 328 for impeachment to 0 opposed, but the requirement is 3/4ths of the house, meaning 338 votes must be cast from the 449 seats. 328 is insufficient. There's also the discrepancy over who succeeds the President in that situation: the Chairman of the Rada (Speaker of the House) according to the 2004 constitution, or the Prime Minister according to the 2010 constitution. The current acting President Oleksandr Turchynov was the Chairman, since they're operating on the rolled back laws.
If I am reading the version on wikisource right, it should be 3/4 according to the 2004 version too, so that would mean...his impeachment actually wasn't valid under any/both versions?
Yes that seems to be the case.
The actual impeachment procedure was never initiated in the first place.
So, Yanukovitch is still the legal president of Ukraine despite of him being politically dead.
Given that he is in fact the elected president of Ukaine, it's you who are supposed to provide source which shows that he isn't. As already said, according to the 2004 and 2010 constitution he is still the legal president.
Current acting President is the current Chairman of the Ukrainian Parliament Oleksandr Turchynov after the Ukrainian Parliament ousted Viktor Yanukovych from this office on 21 February 2014.
The new Ukrainian government represents two of the biggest Ukrainian nationalist parties - Svoboda and Right Sectors who are basicly Ukrainian neo-nazis. They still threathen to carry out terrorist actions against pro-Russian Ukrainians and organize similar riots along with the Russian nazis to overthrow Kreml. Also, the new Ukrainian gov. and EU's anti-Russian policy is the main reason and justification of the occupation of Crimea and possible occupation of Eastern Ukraine. In fact it was a provocation from USA and EU which led to Putin's decision to intervene.You're lying
Yes. And I really admire the western flexibility that allows you to go from blaming Russia for homophobia to support Ukrainian nationalists who beats people for speaking Russian in public.Here you're lying again.
There is no 'invasion' taking place. Crimea asked for protection against the new Verkhovna Rada which is not representative for the population of South- and East Ukraine. Russian soldiers and Berkut were met as heroes and liberators by the people. Putin possibly prevented a civil war from taking place between western and eastern Ukrainians.1. There is,
Wrong again.QuoteThe vote was 328 for impeachment to 0 opposed, but the requirement is 3/4ths of the house, meaning 338 votes must be cast from the 449 seats. 328 is insufficient. There's also the discrepancy over who succeeds the President in that situation: the Chairman of the Rada (Speaker of the House) according to the 2004 constitution, or the Prime Minister according to the 2010 constitution. The current acting President Oleksandr Turchynov was the Chairman, since they're operating on the rolled back laws.
Did you make that yourself Vince..Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuacrisis.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FCrimea-infographic-72.jpg&hash=1441b05d0fdb08a5b8173dad6aadbbfc7a0f074a)[close]
Lol, but the government installed by the US that used snipers to kill its own supporters is legitimate. ::)
Lol, but the government installed by the US that used snipers to kill its own supporters is legitimate. ::)(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5864146688/h1A7F8D0F/)
Shaun Walker of the BBC: Haven't managed to speak to the journalists yet but it sounds like six of them were attacked. I think none seriously injured thank god.
/u/uptodatepronto
Shaun Walker of BBC: SOS: Andrei Tsaplienko of Inter TV and others awol near Sevastopol. Called friend to say pursued, shouts of get out of car heard. Now phone off
TWEET via Roland Oliphant: Witness to attack on journos: "cameraman shouted "I'm Russian!" Masked men just said "so are we" and punched him in the head anyway."
/u/gissisim
@UkraineConflict: It seems like the primary goal of occupying forces is to remove the 'eyes on the ground'; beat & terrify journalists. Stay safe out there.
TWEET via Shaun Walker: Hearing that a couple of journalists have been quite badly beaten up by the self defence units near the Sevastopol base being stormed. Grim.
/u/gissisim
TWEET via Simon Shuster: Cossacks and other military irregulars preventing reporters from getting near the stormed Ukraine base, thus no video or photos. --- LIVE THREAD
Lol, but the government installed by the US that used snipers to kill its own supporters is legitimate. ::)
Such proof, much believe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8
Bugged call proving that the snipers were not used by Yanukovych, but by Maidan leaders.Quote"all the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and then people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides,"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5n8UbJ8jsk
Basically, they are talking about who they are going to install as the new government leaders.
Yeah, the west is definitely not pulling any strings here..
Vincenzo, why do you think I support Russia in this? I don't. I already told you I didn't. But I've also already proven to you that the new government is Kiev is criminal.You have proven jack shit, you pasted the same telephone recording now 10 times, the bullshit does not change.
Vincenzo, why do you think I support Russia in this? I don't. I already told you I didn't. But I've also already proven to you that the new government is Kiev is criminal.You have proven jack shit, you pasted the same telephone recording now 10 times, the bullshit does not change.
I tried to explain it before, I give up. You are being ridiculous.
Lets get back to topic without more conspiracy theories, thanks.
Lol, but the government installed by the US that used snipers to kill its own supporters is legitimate. ::)You belong in the Alex Jones channel.
Lol, but the government installed by the US that used snipers to kill its own supporters is legitimate. ::)You belong in the Alex Jones channel.
Listen to the recordings I posted.Yes, and?
United States has financially and through propaganda aided the nationalist West Ukrainian sentiment. That was not done because USA opposes Russian imperialism but rather because it wants to undermine Putin's imperialist ambitions and further its own. Realpolitik at work.
http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2014/03/svoboda-party-nazism-in-ukraine-supported-by-john-mccain-u-s-jews-advised-to-leave/argh another stupid shit taken out of context and not true for the most part.. as said by the Jewish groups themselves;
There's some sources linked in there aswel.
http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2014/03/svoboda-party-nazism-in-ukraine-supported-by-john-mccain-u-s-jews-advised-to-leave/
There's some sources linked in there aswel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSxaa-67yGM
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/02/08/ukra-f08.html
That was not done because USA opposes Russian imperialism but rather because it wants to undermine Putin's imperialist ambitions and further its own. Realpolitik at work.
Last time when we were talking 'paramilitaries' were 'fighters for freedom' not 'terrorists'. Something changed since then?Are you kidding me? Freedom fighters and terrorists are the exact same thing, just depends who you ask. The IRA made bombings in Britain, the Brits would consider them terrorists. They helped Ireland gain independence, the Irish see them as freedom fighters. Just as the taliban has support in Afghanistan by some locals, who would not call them terrorists. It is just about who you ask.
The credits are in the bottom...Oh..
What, how id the US terrorizing Iran? You mean Israel?Israel? Are you joking with me? America and Israel are allies. American terror is more like drone bombings in Pakistan and other nations, and for Iran, the CIA removed a democratically elected leader and replaced with their puppet the shah.
Eurocrats made a deal to change the government of Ukraine through a revolution to replace them with a EU friendly gov. who will make deals with EU and NATO. Euromaidan happened just after Ukraine decided to co-operate with Russia instead of EU, so EU are the ones trying to make Ukraine enemies of Russia.
Also, you are supporting terrorist groups and actively promote/organize civil disobedience all over the World, and blaming Russia for doing something illegally at the same time.
Eurocrats made a deal to change the government of Ukraine through a revolution to replace them with a EU friendly gov. who will make deals with EU and NATO. Euromaidan happened just after Ukraine decided to co-operate with Russia instead of EU, so EU are the ones trying to make Ukraine enemies of Russia.First off you are completely ignoring my post.
There are simply no need for observers because Putin's choice is to not let the west be part of the decision-making in Ukraine anymore. Just the same as EU wanted to do to Russia. It's just hilarious that you have the confidence to be able to blame Russia for Imperialism when in the same time trying to be on the moral highground from NATO's point of view, who in the last 10 years invaded Iraq, bombed Serbia, Libya all without UN mandate or consulting Russia. And would break the sovereignty of Syria in 2013 by invading their territory if Russia would veto against it in the UN (and was blamed for it by western media). Also, you are supporting terrorist groups and actively promote/organize civil disobedience all over the World, and blaming Russia for doing something illegally at the same time.
It is also clear that western media have portrayed FSA as 'heroes' and the 'right side' in the Syrian war, although most of them are foreign invaders, also illegal combatants on Syrian soil.
Lol Danik, but you see nothing wrong with Putler shoving fascism down the throats of kids from the second they are born.Because it's a lie, fascism is an ideology which took shape in the West, and was defeat by the Soviet people. Now w. Europe wants to establish a world-wide authoritarian liberalist regime which is 3 times worse than fascism and nazism. Putin is not close to being promoting fascism or liberalism.
Putin not promoting fascism.Then you have really bad humor? Is that Swedish liberal-socialist propaganda doing their work in the media and school education.
That made me giggle.
Putin not promoting fascism.Then you have really bad humor? Is that Swedish liberal-socialist propaganda doing their work in the media and school education.
That made me giggle.
Obviously I am not a fan of everything the EU and the USA do, but in the end it is probably the best place to be on this earth. You can live in relative freedom and prosperity, which is not guaranteed in most countries.
Don't even bother with these people, Danik. They spew western media bullshit but when you say something pro russian or anti-maidan they call it russian propaganda. Don't waste your time debating with these sheeple. ::)and when we say something anti-russian and pro-EU you call it biased western media ::) The irony is strong with this one.
The difference is you regard everything that the news tells you as fact and everyone will side with you, while I don't even watch Russian news but I can see through the obvious bullshit and lies of the western media.
The difference is you regard everything that the news tells you as fact and everyone will side with you and you call everything anti-maidan Russian propaganda, while I don't even watch Russian news but I can see through the obvious bullshit and lies of the western media.Where have i stated I believe everything I see?
I guess that's the same way western Europeans were ok with slavery, now there are just new tools to exploit whole countries. I hope you will drown in that oil. Previously I thought only Brits could be that cynical.
The difference is you regard everything that the news tells you as fact and everyone will side with you and you call everything anti-maidan Russian propaganda, while I don't even watch Russian news but I can see through the obvious bullshit and lies of the western media.
The EU that promotes sodomy instead of stable households.Age:
The EU that forces down liberalism down the citizen's throats since preschool age and ruin the culture and moral norms in the society.
The EU that pushes countries into economic slavery.
1. You don't source anything you say, and when you do, its conspiracy videos.
If either of you can provide some reliable sources of the West being the badguys in this situation I'd happily agree we are doing something wrong, yet its not a case of good and evil - even if the West are doing something wrong, Russia has still invaded a foreign nation, and is almost definitely doing the worst actions.
1. You don't source anything you say, and when you do, its conspiracy videos.
If either of you can provide some reliable sources of the West being the badguys in this situation I'd happily agree we are doing something wrong, yet its not a case of good and evil - even if the West are doing something wrong, Russia has still invaded a foreign nation, and is almost definitely doing the worst actions.
I wouldn't call leaked phone calls of EU and American officials "conspiracy videos", if you would just listen to them you would see why I believe what I do. I think those phone calls are reason enough to explain why the west are not the good guys here. But you probably won't listen to them, and then when I try to explain how they are not just conspiracy theories, you will all say I'm blinded by Russian propaganda. It's very irritating.
1. You don't source anything you say, and when you do, its conspiracy videos.
If either of you can provide some reliable sources of the West being the badguys in this situation I'd happily agree we are doing something wrong, yet its not a case of good and evil - even if the West are doing something wrong, Russia has still invaded a foreign nation, and is almost definitely doing the worst actions.
I wouldn't call leaked phone calls of EU and American officials "conspiracy videos", if you would just listen to them you would see why I believe what I do. I think those phone calls are reason enough to explain why the west are not the good guys here. But you probably won't listen to them, and then when I try to explain how they are not just conspiracy theories, you will all say I'm blinded by Russian propaganda. It's very irritating.
I do hope crimea votes yes to becoming a part of russia.
I do hope crimea votes yes to becoming a part of russia.And the russian government isn't undemocratic and corrupt?
Atleast as of now, since russians are regarded as scum of the earth by the current undemocratic and illegal government.
If you let the Russians move into Georgia it will only be a matter of time before they are in Florida.
That is so not true. Unlike America they don't have 2 political parties. And since when does America not arrest people for protesting?
My point is not that "Putin is best guy evr", but that he is at least better than a undemocratic nazi, like the people in Ukraine right now.
Well, I do agree the American democracy is probably the worst in all of the western world, by far. Russia of course not counting.
But off-topiiiiic.
Well, I do agree the American democracy is probably the worst in all of the western world, by far. Russia of course not counting.
But off-topiiiiic.
We aren't Hungary or Serbia.
Well, I do agree the American democracy is probably the worst in all of the western world, by far. Russia of course not counting.
But off-topiiiiic.
We aren't Hungary or Serbia.
Keyword: Western world.
Ah, I love the smell of vocal minority in the morning. Smells like clusterfuck.Well, I do agree the American democracy is probably the worst in all of the western world, by far. Russia of course not counting.
But off-topiiiiic.
We aren't Hungary or Serbia.
Keyword: Western world.
They're in Europe, don't they count as Western?
I guess we should drop that discussion because people want to talk about events in Ukraine, but stop blaming Russia for not fully adapting liberal western democracy, as they don't even have to. You are making your own mistakes and don't even want to see them.
The best recent example is that nearly half million people in democratic France protested against same-sex 'marriage', and were completely ignored by the gov. and became categorized as conservative Catholics and Muslims, because liberals already has control over the whole system in the government and media. They will create laws that will make it harder to opposing views to come throught the media in first place, let alone political opposition.
Normally I'd agree with you Ry, but no one could be that misinformed on purpose.
I mean I feel like I'm talking to someone who's been stuck in Khimer Rouge Cambodia for 5 years.
You guys are being baited wonderfully by Danik the troll. There is simply no other explanation to how someone could be so close minded and take extreme cases as widespread opinion, and then go on to ignore any counter arguments, provide 0 sources and continually post anti-Western posts.. Its honestly not even worth replying to.
In other news, NATO be flexin' : http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/us-flexes-military-might-with-ukrainian-war-games-1-3337020
And: http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-wn-ukraine-crimea-yanukovich-20140311,0,4012749.story
You guys are being baited wonderfully by Danik the troll. There is simply no other explanation to how someone could be so close minded and take extreme cases as widespread opinion, and then go on to ignore any counter arguments, provide 0 sources and continually post anti-Western posts.. Its honestly not even worth replying to.
In other news, NATO be flexin' : http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/us-flexes-military-might-with-ukrainian-war-games-1-3337020
And: http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-wn-ukraine-crimea-yanukovich-20140311,0,4012749.story
Wtf do you know about russia? Yeah nothing, only the bullshit western media tells you.
Also yankkovic is still the legal president och Ukraine, he only fleed the country because the nazis where trying to kill him and his family.
Also a bit offtopic THERE is no such thing as democratic nazis, fascist or even ultra right Wing!
Do you think you know Russia by reading 1 Swedish and 1 American website? I don't see you coming with any concrete claims why Russia is a fascist country. The soldier on your avatar, however, fought for the triumph of nazism in Russia. Maybe it's just anger that western imperialism has failed in Russia since 1242 to 1709, 1812 and 1945.Wehrmacht ≠ national socialist.
I know both Russian and western society better than you do as you are biased towards propaganda that you like to hear, and have never lived in Russia yourself.
Turin yes there are right winged armed groups in Ukraine but neither the EU or US have supported them.
Not even the current governement supports them. I somewhere found a video (let me see if I find it again) where the leader of the right sector is claiming to kill the new PM because he got a price on his head for crimes.
Aaand unlocked again.
EliasMartinW, I would advise you to look into the facts before making such wild claims, none of the nationalistic parties are represented in the current parliament.
In any case, you have nationalistic parties and people in every country, for instance in Germany you have the NPD, in Netherlands the Wilders party... It doesn't mean the country is run by fascistic nationalists. Especially not in Ukraine right now.
But lets drop that discussion and move to the latest news.
Aaand unlocked again.
EliasMartinW, I would advise you to look into the facts before making such wild claims, none of the nationalistic parties are represented in the current parliament.
In any case, you have nationalistic parties and people in every country, for instance in Germany you have the NPD, in Netherlands the Wilders party... It doesn't mean the country is run by fascistic nationalists. Especially not in Ukraine right now.
But lets drop that discussion and move to the latest news.
Childish claim? Read something not from CNN.
Also the reason why he locked the thread was because Archduke Sven wrote a very mean comment to me which he or someone then deleted.
Says a guy with an anime character based on imperialist-period german.
But anyway, while I suggest not getting all your claims and idea's from Russia Today. The Right Sector is bad and the governement and parliament know that. They won't ever be in power.
I never saw anyone getting beaten up for no reason.
What i am saying is that the current regime is made up of the Ultra right wing, and they are using militas for security, and these militas are nazis.You saying wrong.
The governement is the right sector, and they are turning ukraine into a military state.
You guys are being baited wonderfully by Danik the troll. There is simply no other explanation to how someone could be so close minded and take extreme cases as widespread opinion, and then go on to ignore any counter arguments, provide 0 sources and continually post anti-Western posts.. Its honestly not even worth replying to.
In other news, NATO be flexin' : http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/us-flexes-military-might-with-ukrainian-war-games-1-3337020
And: http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-wn-ukraine-crimea-yanukovich-20140311,0,4012749.story
Wtf do you know about russia?
Yeah nothing, only the bullshit western media tells you.
You mean the parliament that got voted for and voted to remove the president? OK.
Can we please drop the stupid stuff, and move towards posting a constructive discussion or information regarding Ukraine?
I'll report it just in case;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdBeGwXgoqI
What do you guys think about that the Berkut riot police is now re-employed in Crimea as a local defense force, and continuing their crimes, like seen there, they beat up reporters for no reason.
What do you guys think about that the Berkut riot police is now re-employed in Crimea as a local defense force, and continuing their crimes, like seen there, they beat up reporters for no reason.It seems to be the only thing they able to, so nothing strange
So, the rebels of Ukraine are fascists?From what a lot of media have gathered, yes, some rebel groups are pro-facist. Unless swastika est stuff is just regular nowadays, not sure ::)
Spoilerhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=fWkfpGCAAuw[close]
Ofc. Those damn Russians arranged actors and performers to shoot at the Ukrainian policemen, talk to the western correspondents and tell them they are fascist. ::)Spoilerhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=fWkfpGCAAuw[close]
That's just russian propaganda, you crazy conspiracy theorist. ;)
So, the rebels of Ukraine are fascists?From what a lot of media have gathered, yes, some rebel groups are pro-facist. Unless swastika est stuff is just regular nowadays, not sure ::)Look familiar?(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgatesofvienna.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F12%2Feurosquare2.jpg&hash=9813f4cdb542e2f42cf2e7da122201064b2949bf)
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftheredphoenix.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F12%2F1453385_563265287074825_1492756770_n.jpg&hash=de66621e4bcae0aafc41092a4a524d7ed4f20820)[close]
There is not a small minority of extremist in the current "government". As of now the 2nd biggest party is Svoboda, or "freedom". 10 years ago they had a neo-nazi swastika as party logo.Honestly I have to agree with this even if I don't support your opinions.
They openly call themselves National socialists, and they only allow ethnic Ukrainians in their party.
Sounds like nazis to me.
There's a huge cultural tie between Ukraine and their actions during WWII. Just like in Latvia, they pulled a lot of Pro-German interest against the Russians to get their own national freedom from the Soviets. Every foot of Ukraine was a battlefield and suffered heavily from both sides.
I think because it is once again a fight against Russia, there is reaching back into the not-so-distant past where there were plenty of German army volunteers.
There are a lot of nationalists in the Ukraine. There just so happens to be national socialists thrown in there as well. Desperate times are gripping Ukraine and I'm sure the Svoboda guys are always at the front of the crowd to accomplish their goals.
The common man is always overshadowed by radicals on both sides. It's just a shame the common Ukrainian isn't having much choice to stay neutral with all of the exterior forces imposing their will. Another time of pain in Ukraine's history.
Desperate times, desperate measures, desperate choices.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffYW3nlBwZk
Too bad nobody remembers the fact that both sides have lives, families, beliefs, goals, needs and wants outside of their artificial political affiliations! Stop arguing over which side is "right" or "wrong", because such a side does not exist. This cannot end well the way that it's going, and this senseless division between people unwittingly and unwillingly caught up in social pressure and relentless propaganda on both sides will only lead to catastrophe, as we have seen innumerable times in the past several thousand years of recorded human history.I have to say, I don't think I could have said it any better. Outlines the very reason I hate politics.
I have to say, I don't think I could have said it any better. Outlines the very reason I hate politics.That's like hating weather or gravity.
Things like this can be sorted, move away from civilisation, move underground or move into space.I have to say, I don't think I could have said it any better. Outlines the very reason I hate politics.That's like hating weather or gravity.
Well, if that's an opinion for you.... :DThings like this can be sorted, move away from civilisation, move underground or move into space.I have to say, I don't think I could have said it any better. Outlines the very reason I hate politics.That's like hating weather or gravity.
Has Russia never had a fully democratic government?
Err... Lenin didn't want it to be democratic? The Bolsheviks abolished democracy..I said perhaps.
Has Russia never had a fully democratic government?The Novgorod Republic had direct democracy, while all European countries except Greece had indirect democracy and which came much later.
ITT: Neo-Nazi's talking about the supremacy of the white race, and how "white" slavs are inferior.FINALLY SOMEONE SAYS HOW IT IS!!!one!!ii!
GJ being a supporter of Fascism, Neo-nazism, homophobia, xenophobia, anti-Semitism, anti-Russian ism, violence, illegal and undemocratic governments.
when they spread misinformation or twisting of facts about the anti-propaganda laws introduced in Russia back then.
when they spread misinformation or twisting of facts about the anti-propaganda laws introduced in Russia back then.
Do you mean the anti-Gay laws by that?
Do any of you think you're going to change each other's opinions by continuing these hopeless arguments? It's incredibly stupid to argue about who's to blame here. Discuss news and developing events, not who's right or wrong, which is entirely subjective and doesn't even exist. I know nobody is going to listen to me again, but I'll keep repeating this message all the same.
Do any of you think you're going to change each other's opinions by continuing these hopeless arguments? It's incredibly stupid to argue about who's to blame here. Discuss news and developing events, not who's right or wrong, which is entirely subjective and doesn't even exist. I know nobody is going to listen to me again, but I'll keep repeating this message all the same.
The reason nobody listen to you is because you are not making any sense. You say we should discuss news and events, yet the fundamental problems with news and events is that they are reported, and so we are forced to discuss what source is right and what source is wrong.
Exact use of words like this. First of all, it's just one law which bans promotion of LGBT to minors, and therefore also in public areas. Secondly, it's not violating the rights of any individuals, cause they currently have the same rights as other citizens. But I'm sure you could argue a lot about it simply because of your nature :)when they spread misinformation or twisting of facts about the anti-propaganda laws introduced in Russia back then.
Do you mean the anti-Gay laws by that?
Exact use of words like this. First of all, it's just one law which bans promotion of LGBT to minors, and therefore also in public areas. Secondly, it's not violating the rights of any individuals, cause they currently have the same rights as other citizens. But I'm sure you could argue a lot about it simply because of your nature :)
Show me account of the existence of such genes please... along with genetics which leads to other specific types of behavior and actions. Existence of homosexuality as a phenomenon in the modern western society is a result of the promotion in the media and by corrupt organizations like APA, not genetic traits.
Update: Second Crimea referendum has been concluded - almost 93% support secession to Russia.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26598832
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Biological_differences_in_gay_men_and_lesbiansThat's completely hilarious. A study not backed by a hypothesis and which solely consist of finding biological correlations is not enough to give the study a status of being "semi-scientific". You can create a similar "study" and say that there is correlation between limb size and IQ, with no further documentation. It's not science, it's a (pretty lazy) attempt at fabrication of facts.
Want some medical journals too? Or is that bigoted mind of yours too thick for that.
It means you can get arrested and imprisoned for being openly gay. It's a clear violation of personal freedom. It's like imprisoning people for being bald. 'Your hairless head suggests that not having hair is natural! Get a wig!'.Looks like you are trying to put words in my mouth. What I said is that normalization of homosexuality happened in the last decades in the western society. It has never been socially accepted.
Danik, are you seriously saying that homosexuality is something modern and it didn't exist in the past?
That's completely hilarious. A study not backed by any types of hypethesi which consist of finding biological correlations is not enough to give the study a status of being "semi-scientific". You can create a similar "study" and say that there is correlation between limb size and IQ, with no further documentation. It's not science, it's a (pretty lazy) attempt at fabrication of facts.
So... you're saying you're against saying it's ok to be homosexual?I don't know what you mean by "it's ok". As in "ok" for the society? No, I think such normalization process is not "ok" but very harmful in the long term.
How the hell is it harmful? Homosexuals are... what, less than 1% of the world's population?
Looks like you are trying to put words in my mouth. What I said is that normalization of homosexuality happened in the last decades in the western society. It has never been socially accepted.Now that's one big lie m8...
Changing the subject..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkfpGCAAuw
Reposting what Augy posted, the truth about the Ukraine opposition.
The EU and the US backed a coup to oust the pro-Russian president and Russia invaded to secure its military assets in the Crimea, and both sides are using propaganda against each other.
Changing the subject..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkfpGCAAuw
Reposting what Augy posted, the truth about the Ukraine opposition.
The EU and the US backed a coup to oust the pro-Russian president and Russia invaded to secure its military assets in the Crimea, and both sides are using propaganda against each other.
Lol the guy says the UNA was allied with Nazi Germany! Hahahah.
Stopped listening at that point, he doesnt have his shit straight.
Are you delusional? He said the Ukrainian neo-nazi party called Svoboda was associated with Nazi Germany. And because of your poor hearing you refuse to listen the rest of the video? ::)
I doubt you're the one to blame someone from being unbiased. And there is probably sense in calling UNA "ally of Germany" if they were officially a branch in the Wehrmacht since 15th march 1945.
Just like the Commies promised an equal and fair society?What is your point? That the social differences or justice in the west were much better than in Soviet Union? I got it, the damn commies behaved undemocratic and banned propaganda of violence and idiotic entertainment on TV.
Yes, it reminds me of the time after death of Lenin and until the destalinization of 1953. After that there were no major repressions. Gulags were labor camps mainly used for gang criminals.And the occasional political opponent, though bullets and poison tend to be cheaper than paying for food and keeping someone in a gulag. ;)
Yes, it reminds me of the time after death of Lenin and until the destalinization of 1953. After that there were no major repressions. Gulags were labor camps mainly used for gang criminals.
Yes, it reminds me of the time after death of Lenin and until the destalinization of 1953. After that there were no major repressions. Gulags were labor camps mainly used for gang criminals.
That's what, 30 years? 30! And you just throw it aside as a little important period of time. In which millions died at the hands of the soviets. Besides, Lenin himself isn't exactly clean. Russian civil war ring any bells? Polish war of 1920?
Ukraine can simply shut down the water and electricity lines to the Crimea. All agreements concerning that are simply cancelled. It will be close to a siege situation.
Ukraine can simply shut down the water and electricity lines to the Crimea. All agreements concerning that are simply cancelled. It will be close to a siege situation.
That's too Russian, i doubt the Ukrainians will be dicks like that.
Yep, the Bolsheviks plotted to kill my great-great-grandfather's family a long with confiscating his rich farm, but they managed to escape the day before. But to ask you a question - and how many centuries did Netherlands brutally exploit their colonies' work power before they got enough food in their bellies to be on the more tolerant side of politics and demand others to do so as well? :)Yes, it reminds me of the time after death of Lenin and until the destalinization of 1953. After that there were no major repressions. Gulags were labor camps mainly used for gang criminals.
That's what, 30 years? 30! And you just throw it aside as a little important period of time. In which millions died at the hands of the soviets. Besides, Lenin himself isn't exactly clean. Russian civil war ring any bells? Polish war of 1920?
recognize
http://crimethinc.com/texts/ux/ukraine.html
i'm not even gonna argue with you since i don't want to impede on your warm fuzzy feelings for the ukrainian people, which you have carefully nurtured from minute 1.
insulting is bad
in this welfare state were living in you probably never had to question authority
you're nice a snuggy in college
just wait till you have to struggle to get a paycheck and see that you and your boss are different classes and don't share the same interests.
Capitalism brings out the fucking worst in us, and allows us to let people starve. We have to create a system that will have us working together.
Well, monarchy is the only solution then ... :D
Tell me about an existing monarchy without laws.
If the government doesn't even follow their own laws, why should we?
Knowing this, we should see a significant drop to almost insignificant levels of crime in a functioning anarchist society.
Putin annexes Crimea, no big surprise there.
But they are, and that is good.Putin annexes Crimea, no big surprise there.
It would help the Ukraine cause if the people of the Crimea wouldn't be so happy about it.
But they are, and that is good.
The reason why I still oppose this is that the Russia still invaded Ukrainian ground. It makes everything after that appear completely fake.Obviously the whole referendum etc. was just a large fake to make the invasion seem legitimate.
Seriously, it's quite a huge step forward. It doesn't mean direct war, but a line has been crossed here.
http://rt.com/news/putin-address-parliament-crimea-562/
So sad, yet so true.
In fact, it was Russia that defended international law and its institutions, while western countries have been diminishing them.
“We stand against having a military organization meddling in our backyard, next to our homeland or in the territories that are historically ours.
I just thought about this... don't the Finns have an Russian speaking minority? And weren't they members of the Russian Empire?
Ah fuck...
Er... yes I am actually. No nation should be allowed to act like an empire.
So I take it that you would be all for a Russian intervention next time your government decides that some shithole needs to be airmailed a few thousand tons of high explosives?
Not sure if these have been brought up:
- Turkey now claims that Crimea belongs to them, as per a document signed by Catherine the Great a couple hundred years ago.
- Russia has sent threatening letters to Estonia about some bullshit ethnic mistreatment.
- Moldava told Russia to go fuck themselves.
- Ukraine is both training its reserves and passed orders that the Ukraine military can shoot Russians in their territory if needed. (This is a day or two old)
Not sure if these have been brought up:
- Turkey now claims that Crimea belongs to them, as per a document signed by Catherine the Great a couple hundred years ago.
- Russia has sent threatening letters to Estonia about some bullshit ethnic mistreatment.
- Moldava told Russia to go fuck themselves.
- Ukraine is both training its reserves and passed orders that the Ukraine military can shoot Russians in their territory if needed. (This is a day or two old)
Please post some sources for any/all of these.........
Ukraine refused to abandon their bases and have declared that if necessary they'll open fire.
Meanwhile, the Crimean government asked the Tatars to move away (To somewhere else on the Crimea) because they need the land they currently reside on. For 'social purposes'. Are these people fucking nuts?
It will be a cat and mouse game if you ask me: The EU and US will embargo Russia with ever increasing embargos, Russia will respond to those sanctions with God knows what kind of reprisals, and so on and on untill one of the parties decides that the only way out of the conflict is a force of arms. AKA war.
It will be a cat and mouse game if you ask me: The EU and US will embargo Russia with ever increasing embargos, Russia will respond to those sanctions with God knows what kind of reprisals, and so on and on untill one of the parties decides that the only way out of the conflict is a force of arms. AKA war.
That, or nothing happens and the world carried on with their everyday business. Until Putin does something really stupid, or he is overthrown.
I don't think Putin will react stupid. He is the mightiest man in the world and I think you have to be really intelligent to reach this position. :DIt will be a cat and mouse game if you ask me: The EU and US will embargo Russia with ever increasing embargos, Russia will respond to those sanctions with God knows what kind of reprisals, and so on and on untill one of the parties decides that the only way out of the conflict is a force of arms. AKA war.
That, or nothing happens and the world carried on with their everyday business. Until Putin does something really stupid, or he is overthrown.
Well, that's true but he declared loudly and clearly that he won't have any ambitions on other former Russion territories.
He also loudly and proudly declared that keeping to international law and respecting the sovereignty of nations was the only way to avoid war. He just doesn't seem so truthworthy anymore.
Well, tell me when Putin proclamates Greater Russia. Until then I won't believe exactly the opposite of what he says.
Fuck conscription.
Really? Not all? Here it's all who make it trough the tests (though it's inactive now). When conscription was still active, they did sometimes dismiss an entire year because the previous one had been big. They'd use conscripts for all kind of jobs, not just regular cannon fodder. My dad was a driver.
Pretty sure they pick the ones about to turn 20 first.. (like me, but I already signed my life away)
Fuck conscription.For me, conscription generally depends on the situation. I despise the fact of sending people to war without their approval and I also hate it when it's used in offensive, imperialist wars. But I mean, if a nation is being invaded, the govt should be able to bolster its ranks. Of course, a draftee should have the option to leave the nation safely.
That could make birthday celebrations really hard to organize, so many people with the same birthday :oReally? Not all? Here it's all who make it trough the tests (though it's inactive now). When conscription was still active, they did sometimes dismiss an entire year because the previous one had been big. They'd use conscripts for all kind of jobs, not just regular cannon fodder. My dad was a driver.
Basically, everyone signs a paper once they become 18. Then they pick a month and date, if you were born on that day you're to report to the nearest Army recruiting station.
Doesn't that remove the entire point of conscription?yes which i am highly against either way.
If a nation needs troops, it has the right to pull people. Though a clause stating that conscription is only allowed in the case of an attack on American soil would be nice.A modern, successful government cannot exist without the consent of its people. If the people don't consent to being forced to fight for a nation (even defensively) the people shouldn't be forced to fight. Of course, in mega-nationalist America, you would basically have an overbearing amount of volunteers. You could also always pull a Stalin and forcefully recruit the prisoners of a nation. Which the United States has an abundance of.
If you're willing to get government funds and stipends you should be willing to put yourself forward for a draft.(Btw I do agree with some kind of clause, forgot to add that to last reply)
It's not military obsession, it's just the ideal. If the US gets into a war where we need the damn troops, a draft makes perfect sense. I mean there was a draft in WWI and WWII, but most of the people were volunteers.Burning witches almost 500 years ago "made sense", doesn't mean we still practice it. And like you just said, most people volunteer because of the amount of nationalism that is integrated into the US so there seems to be no need for a draft.
I'm not saying the nation is overly militaristic, I'm saying a draft isn't.Forcing people to fight against their will and their interests is the sign of a militaristic state. When soldiery and fighting until the bitter end takes precedence over peace and diplomatic strategy, you are a militaristic state. You have focused more on the military's ability to act that your interior's ability to and that sacrifice proves that we (not just us, almost everybody) are focused more on our "national pride" and "honor" than saving as many people as we can.
It's not military obsession, it's just the ideal. If the US gets into a war where we need the damn troops, a draft makes perfect sense. I mean there was a draft in WWI and WWII, but most of the people were volunteers.
Ugh.the drafts we have started were not during times of defensive crisis except during the Civil War (which even then, it was highly unnecessary).
It's war. In order to fight a war, you need troops. It has nothing to do with militarism, drafts are needed sometimes to make sure the nation can fight.
Idealism only goes so far gentlemen, draft policies are needed in case of crisis.
Remember what I said about the "Only in self defense" clause? I'm not pro-draft in situations like Vietnam.which are very rare and if it becomes self-defense, the draft becomes unnecessary because we always have an overbearing amount of volunteers.
I understand, but how could you determine what is a legitimate case for what is an ok draft and what isn't? Either way, we should get back on topicokay, we've beaten this draft topic to death.
Over the last year, the percentage of residents of the Russian Federation who support the slogan “Russia for the Russians” has risen from 56% to 66%, and the share of the population who favors expelling immigrants rather than helping them adapt has gone up from 64% to 73%.
Call me a fascist, but millions of illegal immigrants taking the jobs of native population might have something to do with that development.I shall raise you on that, fascist. :P
Call me a fascist, but millions of illegal immigrants taking the jobs of native population might have something to do with that development.Blame the people hiring immigrants, not the immigrants themselves. They can't help that they are so gosh darn inexpensive to hire with little to no drawbacks(From the oligarchs perspective).
...deserves to be treated violently and as if he has no rights?
Blame the people hiring immigrants, not the immigrants themselves. They can't help that they are so gosh darn inexpensive to hire with little to no drawbacks(From the oligarchs perspective).
...deserves to be treated violently and as if he has no rights?
Violently? No. That being said, if an immigrant migrates to a country illegally then they really only have their basic human right, as opposed to the legal rights. In continuation, I have no problems with immigrants working in my country, if they come though legally and pay the taxes they're supposed to.
Back on topic, our sanctions on Russia will do nothing severe. I can hear Putin laughing at them from Kentucky.
I'm pretty sure that giving them a beating cos 'NJET RUSKI' is bad.
What would you have them do? Fling a couple MOABs at the Kremlin? Didn't work with the sand people, I doubt it will work here.
http://roarmag.org/2014/03/global-uprisings-bosnia-documentary/
Blame the people hiring immigrants, not the immigrants themselves. They can't help that they are so gosh darn inexpensive to hire with little to no drawbacks(From the oligarchs perspective).I agree on that.
Maybe 2010-2014 is the new 1848uhh... Helloo...? We're living in like 1914, not the 1830's.
Maybe 2010-2014 is the new 1848uhh... Helloo...? We're living in like 1914, not the 1830's.
Maybe 2010-2014 is the new 1848uhh... Helloo...? We're living in like 1914, not the 1830's.
1848, the year of the big revolutions and uprisings in europe. Doesn't ring a bell?
The 1848 revolution in the Netherlands was the best, actually. Not that we had one, but the king still let go of most of his power and ordered a new constitution made. Just 'cos he was scared.1830 revolutions best revolutions.
Good old days, good old days...
The 1848 revolution in the Netherlands was the best, actually. Not that we had one, but the king still let go of most of his power and ordered a new constitution made. Just 'cos he was scared.
Good old days, good old days...
If you add 100 years to the numbers I said, does it ring a bell? I was refering to people who are saying "We live in [current year], not 1930's." Historical joke for you, but you don't know enough of it for understand yet.Maybe 2010-2014 is the new 1848uhh... Helloo...? We're living in like 1914, not the 1830's.
1848, the year of the big revolutions and uprisings in europe. Doesn't ring a bell?
He doesn't seem to be familiar with much of history. Don't worry about it.
If you add 100 years to the numbers I said, does it ring a bell? I was refering to people who are saying "We live in [current year], not 1930's." Historical joke for you, but you don't know enough of it for understand yet.
The 1848 revolution in the Netherlands was the best, actually. Not that we had one, but the king still let go of most of his power and ordered a new constitution made. Just 'cos he was scared.1830 revolutions best revolutions.
Good old days, good old days...
First Schleswig war, yo! Dem damn Germans trying to free themselves.... :PThe 1848 revolution in the Netherlands was the best, actually. Not that we had one, but the king still let go of most of his power and ordered a new constitution made. Just 'cos he was scared.
Good old days, good old days...
Pretty much the same story in Denmark o/ \o
Spoiler[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C_xzZgCFCA[/youtube][close]
Is it too late for this?
Its never too late.Spoiler[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C_xzZgCFCA[/youtube][close]
Is it too late for this?
I can't believe that the split-off plan isn't world news yet. Any confirmations about it?
Russia ain't no G8 no more!! I guess they would be sooo mad right now.
Or not really. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/24/russia-shrugs-threat-expulsion-g8)
Not that easy to cancel everything when deals and big investments has already been made.
Putin Stronk.
Putin Savior
qt 3.14 10/10 would make waifu(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.fjcdn.com%2Fpictures%2FNatalia%2Bpoklonskaya_4c1ddf_5069647.jpg&hash=1381389ec1e0d3dfcbbce5954f5803cf7483b5e6)Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F720%2F293%2Ff04.gif&hash=e8f827bf6d3ae1203bebba0bd43af36eaa39f235)
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwanna-joke.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2Ffunny-picture-natalia-poklonskaya-cute.jpg&hash=d4ead2e18dcaf246c477d86f8cfecc923aa8d33c)[close]
Gotta love the anarchists sarcasm.+1
Obama isn't even trying to pretend anymore.
https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/03/26-7
But even in Iraq, America sought to work within the international system. We did not claim or annex Iraq’s territory. We did not grab its resources for our own gain. Instead, we ended our war and left Iraq to its people in a fully sovereign Iraqi state that can make decisions about its own future.
Gotta love the anarchists sarcasm.
The only reason they did not annex it (Iraq), is because it is thousands of kilometers away from Merica... It would be way to hard to maintain and supply. Making a puppet state out of it is much easier.
As I said before, Russia is doing a much better job, they did not have to kill thousands of people. Then again, Merica had much longer supply lines.
Let's forget that the Iraqi people were fed anti-American propaganda and the Crimeans are fed pro-Russian. That has an effect on people.
True that. And I am not sure that Russia is so much different to the Soviet Union. Most citizens still feel like they are in the Soviet Union and just changed their name and gave up some territories.
I guess most Russian think that 23 years ago everything was better. They are probably not being told what was really going on in the Soviet Union.
It is different in Germany, after the fall of the Empire, everything changed, the whole political and economic system was rebuild more or less from scratch and people were told what actually happened during the 1940s. I highly doubt that Russians are being taught about Gulags etc. (I mean.. They are still in use today.) The system did not change.
Either way, there is no Justifcation for what Russia has done. It is their own fault that the Soviet Union failed, just because crimea once was part of Russia does not mean that it is still today. parts of Poland once were part of Germany. Hungary was part of Austria.
I mean come on, Germany and Austria are not demanding that countries back, just because parts of them have been German/Austrian through most of the History.
In the end, it does not matter whether any of these invasions were justified or what they had in common (or did not have in common). What matters, is that it happened and that no one is going to stop any major "superpower" or "world power" or however you want to call them, if they grab some land. Not yet. Wait a few more years until all major resources are gone and everyone will be fighting for the last drop of oil...
It is going to happen. The only way out of it is to revolutionize the way we are spending and using resources. Building a new system that does not rely on oil, gas or coal but on something that can be reused over and over again. A resource that renews itself or is available in such masses that we have to much of it. (Nuclear Fusion?)
Let's forget that the Iraqi people were fed anti-American propaganda and the Crimeans are fed pro-Russian. That has an effect on people.US killing hundreds of thousands civilians turned out to be the most effective anti-American propaganda in the whole middle-east. US decided to destabilize Iraq, simply because Hussein refused his country to be privatized by American corporations. Same scenario as in South America, CIA-led coup in Iran. The oppressive regime in Saudi Arabia run by a dictator? Doesn't stop them from being one of the closest US allies, as they are friends of corporations.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/30/exclusive-photographs-expose-russian-trained-killers-in-kiev.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/30/exclusive-photographs-expose-russian-trained-killers-in-kiev.html
Interesting. However The Daily Beast is just about the most biased news source you can get, and the words in the article "The pictures shared exclusively with The Daily Beast" kind of raise some alarm bells. Not saying it's false information, but I'm a tad bit suspicious of its credibility.
Majority of Ukrainians are basicly culturally Russian.I'm sorry, but are you stupid? That would be same if I call majority of Dutch as basicly culturally German. Just because they were for centuries german. So pls Netherlands heim ins Reich!
Majority of Ukrainians are basicly culturally Russian.I'm sorry, but are you stupid? That would be same if I call majority of Dutch as basicly culturally German. Just because they were for centuries german. So pls Netherlands heim ins Reich!
Honestly, that's retarded.
So pls Netherlands heim ins Reich!
Common education nowdays, Nazis is a term used for anyone your government doesn't like or someone who isn't 'murica.
USA is sending troops to Ukraine for a shared exercise with the Ukranian army.
and Poles.
Because it's Poland, quite possibly one of the most depressing, if not useless European countries.
Edit: Did I mention because it's Poland?
Because it's Poland, quite possibly one of the most depressing, if not useless European countries.
Edit: Did I mention because it's Poland?
Just as much as Israel cannot into anything good except war.Them be fightin' words. Everyone please stop while we still can :'(
Just getting tired of people shitting on countries because they can.
Do we know for sure if these occupations aren't paid dramas or is the majority of the crowd really for this?
Why is everything what doesn't cope with your views a conspiracy theory? Actually I would choose to live in USSR, pre-ww2 Germany or pre-60's America rather than in a ultraliberal democracy such as Netherlands. At least I be more likely to be 'brainwashed' into being a decent, norm-abiding person than a marijuana-smoking sexual deviant, sad but true. Totalitarian regime would most likely be the lesser good between that and an anarchist society.
a ultraliberal democracy such as Netherlands. At least I be more likely to be 'brainwashed' into being a decent, norm-abiding person than a marijuana-smoking sexual deviant, sad but true.
Actually I would choose to live in USSR, pre-ww2 Germany or pre-60's America rather than in a ultraliberal democracy such as Netherlands.You're still in Norway right?Actually you can live in USSR, move to Russia and wait few years.
What are your opinions guys?There are a lot of:
/Takes Crimea
/Instantly become Soviet Union. ::)
He considers Gorbachov a criminal and sees himself as the Pan-Russian hero that will make everything right.Not only him.
/Instantly become Soviet Union. ::)Not instantly, but he probably doesn't have other choice, except that, if wanted to rule the country for long time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpdCvuf-ZOk
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpdCvuf-ZOk[/youtube]As you can see here. Evidence of double posting content. That's very rude Vince.
Sorry missed it ::)tbh, I think the mods should just ban Vince. He wanders round as if he owns the place!
+1Sorry missed it ::)tbh, I think the mods should just ban Vince. He wanders round as if he owns the place!
That's no forum... that's an FSE station....
"The plant I work at in Kramatorsk gets all of its orders from Russia, and none from Europe. When Kyiv started spoiling relations with Russia the number of orders decreased," Alekseyeva says, explaining her reasons."
Why all this useless violence, just hold a vote, most of the people in these regions do not want to join Russia...
It's true, Russia is getting better with the years ;)Why all this useless violence, just hold a vote, most of the people in these regions do not want to join Russia...
Voter intimidation was fanatic in Crimea.
Dr. Richard Wolff, Democracy At Work, joins Thom Hartmann. Joining the European Union has been a disaster for countries like Greece - Spain - and Ireland. Austerity cuts have decimated their already struggling economies. So why is Ukraine even THINKING of moving closer to joining the EU?
Richard Wolff is a pretty vocal anti-capitalist who makes appearances everywhere.
Only time will tell, you guys raging about the russians is pretty entertaining though.
Richard Wolff is a pretty vocal anti-capitalist who makes appearances everywhere.
Great! How this is relevant to what I said? Or just a random extra text of information that nobody asked for and is completely unnecessary for the current subject?QuoteOnly time will tell, you guys raging about the russians is pretty entertaining though.
I find you it pretty entertaining that you, the famous FSE anarchists, watches Russia Today and thinks its legit.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GK1mWiCi8T4[/youtube]There is a lot of talk about that it's a fake thing.
LITERALLY. HITLER.
The government in kiev is illegal and undemocratic, you can't just vote in parliament to overthrow an democratic elected president. The east of Ukraine never wanted yanokovich gone, and that's why they are rebelling.
The government in kiev is illegal and undemocratic, you can't just vote in parliament to overthrow an democratic elected president. The east of Ukraine never wanted yanokovich gone, and that's why they are rebelling.You have strange opinions man, but in this case I can totally agree with you.
There can only be 1 solution to this, and that is the east separating from the west, which would be best for all.
During if you are right, it's still and undemocratic move. And the ones in charge now i Kiev have not been elected by the people, but by parliment. Doing something like that was very common in dictatorships, like the USSR och Third reich.
Ukraine should deploy its secret weapon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjHJneVonE)! NOW IS THE TIME!
Hmm, Ukraine better speed up as Russia has its own secret weapon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgUstrmJzyc)!Ukraine should deploy its secret weapon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjHJneVonE)! NOW IS THE TIME!
QUICKLY! INVADE BEFORE THEY FURTHER DEVELOP ITS CAPABILITIES!
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GK1mWiCi8T4[/youtube]
LITERALLY. HITLER.
3Well, the USA wan't to increase their power by gaining capabilities for example from Russia; if they don't do so they will die slowly. That's the only reason for nearly every US intervention into domestic activities of other countries in the last 70 years.
And the one thing that prevents the USA from attacking Russia is their military power. Countries like Lybia, Iraq and Afghanistan did not have that military power.
Everyone who think this international affair deals about the Ukrainian people or stuff is a fool.
If the Americans would attack it would trigger a nuclear war, and the winner of that would be Russia since the only place where someone can survive the aftermath of it would be Siberia.
Russia would then haft to re-populate the earth.
During if you are right, it's still and undemocratic move. And the ones in charge now i Kiev have not been elected by the people, but by parliment. Doing something like that was very common in dictatorships, like the USSR och Third reich.
If the Americans would attack it would trigger a nuclear war, and the winner of that would be Russia since the only place where someone can survive the aftermath of it would be Siberia.
Russia would then haft to re-populate the earth.
<snip>Everything that happened in the Ukrainian parliament was against the Ukrainian law and everyone who took part at the deelection of Janukowytsch is a criminal. Same thing about the former Crimean parliament.
Same then with the people's republic of Donetsk.<snip>Everything that happened in the Ukrainian parliament was against the Ukrainian law and everyone who took part at the deelection of Janukowytsch is a criminal. Same thing about the former Crimean parliament.
Why am i not allowed to post here? Im not attacking anyone or posting offensive stuff. It's not my problem that you don't like my opinion.
Perhaps it is for the best to not have conflicts on this topic with eachother.
Last time EliasMartinW you got banned for a month for what you said on this topic.
I think its best if you simply don't post in this topic anymore from now on to reduce the conflicts and insults that are flying over and forth here.
Hope you understand.
Now lets move on on-topic please.
True. And same with Lybia, Syria, Kosovo. Looks like we'd live in an illegal world which would be (in my opinion) better without the USA.Same then with the people's republic of Donetsk.<snip>Everything that happened in the Ukrainian parliament was against the Ukrainian law and everyone who took part at the deelection of Janukowytsch is a criminal. Same thing about the former Crimean parliament.
Well that's utter bullshit (in my opinion). If we were to look on the world that way every country would be illegal and I for one am very gratefull for USA to be here so that countries like yours and mine don't have to spend that much money on the military.True. And same with Lybia, Syria, Kosovo. Looks like we'd live in an illegal world which would be (in my opinion) better without the USA.Same then with the people's republic of Donetsk.<snip>Everything that happened in the Ukrainian parliament was against the Ukrainian law and everyone who took part at the deelection of Janukowytsch is a criminal. Same thing about the former Crimean parliament.
<snip>Everything that happened in the Ukrainian parliament was against the Ukrainian law and everyone who took part at the deelection of Janukowytsch is a criminal. Same thing about the former Crimean parliament.
Im not sure, but i think shooting at police and the president of your country makes you a criminal :-\storming governement buildings and military bases with weapons doesn't?
Again, it's not my problem if people insult me, im not offended by it. They are the ones "insulting" me, so stop them from posting here.
Im not sure, but i think shooting at police and the president of your country makes you a criminal :-\
and then saying the kiev governement is undemocraticIm not sure, but i think shooting at police and the president of your country makes you a criminal :-\
Nice job having the portrait of a mad dictator as your avatar, kindly go to hell.
<snip>Everything that happened in the Ukrainian parliament was against the Ukrainian law and everyone who took part at the deelection of Janukowytsch is a criminal. Same thing about the former Crimean parliament.
Prove it.
They say they won't leave until the 'illegal' government in Kiev leaves. Which would mean they want a re-installation of Yakunovich,It's Yanukovich, not Yakunovich
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNig07RtWxAIs that the ukrainian Ronald Weasley?
Is a soldier a worker?
I will not be drawn out into conflict with those of lesser opinions, especially the neoliberals.
Its mostly non-coms serving with the regular soldiers in the field ever since soldiers started murdering their officers, Vietnam and WW2 also saw many officers being fragged by their own soldiers who refused to go to hot combat zones.
You don't see many higher officers in the field for that reason.
Vietnam and WW2 also saw many officers being fragged by their own soldiers who refused to go to hot combat zones.
Have you been in a warzone, Shorts?
He might wanna send Western-Ukranians along so that they don't give up their weapons again.
Simon Ostrovsky of vice news is being held by the Pro-russians activists. lol
That didn't take long lol.
Russische en westerse media melden dinsdag dat de Amerikaanse journalist Simon Ostrovsky in Slavjansk wordt vastgehouden door pro-Russische separatisten. Ostrovsky's werkgever, de website Vice.com, zegt op de hoogte te zijn van de ontwikkeling.
Won't the USA be very pissed about an American citizen being held prisoner?
I find it very funny that the US want to impose another embargo on Russia if they won't make the seperatists in the Ukraine stop rebelling (which would be an intervention into an internal conflict of a foreign country) after they imposed embargos on Russia for intervening into an internal conflict of a foreign country. ::)
I find it very funny that the US want to impose another embargo on Russia if they won't make the seperatists in the Ukraine stop rebelling (which would be an intervention into an internal conflict of a foreign country) after they imposed embargos on Russia for intervening into an internal conflict of a foreign country. ::)
Do you know who was funding the rebels in Kiew? Right, it was the USA.I find it very funny that the US want to impose another embargo on Russia if they won't make the seperatists in the Ukraine stop rebelling (which would be an intervention into an internal conflict of a foreign country) after they imposed embargos on Russia for intervening into an internal conflict of a foreign country. ::)
The Russians have been extensively funding the rebels and separatists. Pretty much all they would need to do is force Russia to withdraw their support, and the separatists would be severely weakened.
And stop saying you find things funny that you disagree with. That implies you possess the superior wisdom and foresight in this situation, which you don't, I'm sorry to say.That's not better than Duuring who always puts things into the wrong context like the Sudetenland.
Do you know who was funding the rebels in Kiew? Right, it was the USA.Right, and the UK, and France, and Germany, and Canada, and Australia. Get over your irrational cynicism of the US. Every country in the world does this, and any other country in the position of the US would do the same.
That's not better than Duuring who always puts things into the wrong context like the Sudetenland."BUT MOMMM, HE DID IT TOO SO IT MUST BE OKAY FOR ME TO DO IT!!! WAHHH!"
And ofc THIS is not totally childish and inappropriate but my post is?QuoteThat's not better than Duuring who always puts things into the wrong context like the Sudetenland."BUT MOMMM, HE DID IT TOO SO IT MUST BE OKAY FOR ME TO DO IT!!! WAHHH!"
yeah alright.
Do you know who was funding the rebels in Kiew? Right, it was the USA.
And ofc THIS is not totally childish and inappropriate but my post is?QuoteThat's not better than Duuring who always puts things into the wrong context like the Sudetenland."BUT MOMMM, HE DID IT TOO SO IT MUST BE OKAY FOR ME TO DO IT!!! WAHHH!"
yeah alright.
No, but I just tried to make you realize that you aren't in a position to judge me regarding to my post by writing something that could not get beaten any more in its stupidity.And ofc THIS is not totally childish and inappropriate but my post is?QuoteThat's not better than Duuring who always puts things into the wrong context like the Sudetenland."BUT MOMMM, HE DID IT TOO SO IT MUST BE OKAY FOR ME TO DO IT!!! WAHHH!"
yeah alright.
Is it really that hard for you to figure out my point? I was commenting on the fact that you sound like a baby by making the claim that as long as other people are doing it you're in the clear as well.
No, but I just tried to make you realize that you aren't in a position to judge me regarding to my post by writing something that could not get beaten any more in its stupidity.And ofc THIS is not totally childish and inappropriate but my post is?QuoteThat's not better than Duuring who always puts things into the wrong context like the Sudetenland."BUT MOMMM, HE DID IT TOO SO IT MUST BE OKAY FOR ME TO DO IT!!! WAHHH!"
yeah alright.
Is it really that hard for you to figure out my point? I was commenting on the fact that you sound like a baby by making the claim that as long as other people are doing it you're in the clear as well.
I think I failed ...
kdenNo, but I just tried to make you realize that you aren't in a position to judge me regarding to my post by writing something that could not get beaten any more in its stupidity.And ofc THIS is not totally childish and inappropriate but my post is?QuoteThat's not better than Duuring who always puts things into the wrong context like the Sudetenland."BUT MOMMM, HE DID IT TOO SO IT MUST BE OKAY FOR ME TO DO IT!!! WAHHH!"
yeah alright.
Is it really that hard for you to figure out my point? I was commenting on the fact that you sound like a baby by making the claim that as long as other people are doing it you're in the clear as well.
I think I failed ...
Oh boy, you really do not understand irony and sarcasm. I'm sort of confused as to how you could interpret my post as anything other than what I intended. I honestly don't even know how to respond to this.
Good news!
(https://i.imgur.com/aigL1nb.png)
I guess they were too afraid to keep an american captive for too long.
Ukrainian nationalists hang RussianSpoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdj24-pWnzc&feature=player_embedded[close]
Ukrainian nationalists hang RussianSpoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdj24-pWnzc&feature=player_embedded[close]
Can't blame them after the kidnapping and beating for "spreading lies"..
Besides they pretty much proven that the green men are cossacks, which are well not Ukrainian usually.
Ofcource not all news is unbiased, but I still think vice is better than RT.
I'll stick to Al Jazeera and France 24.
Sorry, Nips, I only go iamright.comI'll stick to Al Jazeera and France 24.
Why? They're all going to be virtually the same. Al Jazeera is a bit less biased but still can't be completely clean. My daily rotation is VICE, BBC, CNN, FOX (Yes), Al Jazeera, Huffington Post, The Guardian, Forbes and then The Daily Beast, with RT coming in occasionally in recent months . Why? To gain a perspective from the entire political spectrum. Forming your own opinions based on information presented to you works a lot better than just listening to what your preferred news network says, even if they're supposedly reliable.
I agree with you completely on this, All channels are somewhat biased, and its interesting to read all sides of a story.I'll stick to Al Jazeera and France 24.
Why? They're all going to be virtually the same. Al Jazeera is a bit less biased but still can't be completely clean. My daily rotation is VICE, BBC, CNN, FOX (Yes), Al Jazeera, Huffington Post, The Guardian, Forbes and then The Daily Beast, with RT coming in occasionally in recent months . Why? To gain a perspective from the entire political spectrum. Forming your own opinions based on information presented to you works a lot better than just listening to what your preferred news network says, even if they're supposedly reliable.
Shit's starting to get bad over there. I like how the crowd attack the police and when the police throw tear gas people start screaming fascists...They obviously don't know what facism is, when they want to join the Russian Fe-ditatorship.
I think at this point it's a wee bit obvious Putin isn't planning on bringing back the CCCP.
I think he's actually going to make himself Tzar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj0N2iS5g_k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLqz1F9PwWEthats some intense stuff, I just hope that these actions stabilize the country and not throw it into more chaos
This entire affair is pretty sad and both sides lost people. Also remember that at least 5 Pro-Unity protesters got shot dead by the Pro-Russian side, so Putin can claim all he wants - He does not have the moral high ground on this one.
First of all it was bad idea to ban all current political representation of the East Ukraine, it was also a serious blunder to even consider or allow right-wing anti-Russian ministers into the government (even for a short time) since they where a minority to begin with and have used violence/intimidation where it has suited them which became deeply concerning to the East-Ukranians.Who and how get banned, what do you mean?
Then to opt for the removal of the Russian language (in an official capacity) in a move that generated more symbolic hatred then it did unity and was another bad move regardless of whether they followed through with it.- It wasn't removing of "Russian language" but just Bill "On the principles of the state language policy"
Who and how get banned, what do you mean?
As for "right-wing anti-Russian ministers" there is only two - Ministry of Ecology and Natural Resources and Ministry of Agrarian Policy and Supplies, that has nothing special connected with East-Ukranians. ???
- It wasn't removing of "Russian language" but just Bill "On the principles of the state language policy"
- That bill was imperfect, doesn't counts many aspects of other languages, and should be reworked in that case, so this was the reason to cancel it
- All in all, decision about canceling was vetoed, so for now bill is "working" as earlier.
Svoboda might be right-wing, but there's also the most loyal party to the new government. They've supported every notion without asking for concessions in return, which other parties did. Besides, they are as much Nazi as the PVV, Front National and UKIP. Its supporters stood behind the protests from day one and they got representation for that.
Besides, even if Svoboda was left out, the Kremlin would still point at Previ Sektor and scream 'THEY'RE ALL NAZIS AND FASCISTS'.
The big difference being that the Western nations are democracies, with free press and anchored civilian rights.Not where I live.
The big difference being that the Western nations are democracies, with free press and anchored civilian rights. Russia - Not so much.
Well he stated what he wanted to do and asked if they agreed so technically not quite 'ordering' the crowd, perhaps instigating?
Well I just want to figure out how organized these people are. Are they acting under a higher authority or are they just an angry mob? Do many of them even like Putin and Russia, or do they just see it as an attractive alternative to Ukraine? Do they actually see any problem with their lives in Ukraine, or are they just acting under the effects of group control and peer pressure?
Well I just want to figure out how organized these people are. Are they acting under a higher authority or are they just an angry mob? Do many of them even like Putin and Russia, or do they just see it as an attractive alternative to Ukraine? Do they actually see any problem with their lives in Ukraine, or are they just acting under the effects of group control and peer pressure?
I miss Vice's Simon asking investigative questions :(
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/
Boy what a shocker.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/
Boy what a shocker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spUnGGB5lKQ
some dude on fb says the Russian entered Ukraine recently.
Might be. Reminds me to eastern Germany in 1989 just that they had only shitty commie cars back then.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spUnGGB5lKQ
some dude on fb says the Russian entered Ukraine recently.
Haven't read anything about that on my twitter feed where I follow several freelance tourists. Besides, I think this recording might be from the Crimea where the pro-Russians partied after the 'referendum'.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/
Boy what a shocker.
Damn, I guess my 3.5 GPA is a lie then.
Damn, I guess my 3.5 GPA is a lie then.Only 3.5? Not 139123012371972649182739812739012873817258775287456985743278652309873298470532645320948.5?
Damn, I guess my 3.5 GPA is a lie then.
Are you one of those people who think grades or success in school translates directly to intelligence?
Not sure what makes you think this is some sort of decisive moment.
You know what this means,SpoilerCivil War.[close]
Not sure what makes you think this is some sort of decisive moment.
You know what this means,SpoilerCivil War.[close]
Not sure what makes you think this is some sort of decisive moment.
You know what this means,SpoilerCivil War.[close]
If you have been watching Vice News (or any other reliable news network) you would know that Ukraine is at the break of Civil war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9A9oxJZ3MU
FORWARD COMRADES! FOR THE GLORY OF DONETSK PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC!
The Ukrainian army did capture some roadblocks and is moving into the north and the south. There has been direct fighting with at least 4 death on the Ukrainian at circa 30 on the Separatist sides. That's a pretty direct action. No direct attacks on Separatist-held buildings. Let alone Donetsk. which, by the way, has a pretty good defensive lay-out. Geographically wise.
Seriously? No one is gonna comment on the tank but Edward?
Damn, I guess my 3.5 GPA is a lie then.
Are you one of those people who think grades or success in school translates directly to intelligence?
Not directly, more like a correlation.
I do wonder where in fucks name they got that T-34 from.
That T-34 wont survive 2 minutes against a decently trained and equipped army.
Even if the Ukrainian army only had infantry, that tank could easily be taken out by any RPG. But they do not. They have air support and armored vehicles to support their infantry.
How the fuck is olafson muted? :o
He muted himself. Devs can still post while muted.
I do wonder where in fucks name they got that T-34 from.
I do wonder very much what happened to Eugen. We might not agree on a lot, but he's still an Ukrainian. Even though he was pretty pro-Yukanovich so I presume he's also pro-Russian.
UN can't do anything, Russia's on the perm Sec counsel remember?
...Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to give 5 nations complete veto power!?
But we can't change that.Assassination you say?
Because they have veto power.
Anyone else following the logic here?
And so it has most of the 3rd world by thethroatstomach*.
I swear to God and all of the friggin messengers, if I end up getting drafted into this shit without help from the bloody EU I'm going to shoot every single Belgian I see.Hmmm, Americans shooting civies. Meh, wouldn't be the first time.
I swear to God and all of the friggin messengers, if I end up getting drafted into this shit without help from the bloody EU I'm going to shoot every single Belgian I see.Are you implying that you need a reason to start shooting Belgian?
I swear to God and all of the friggin messengers, if I end up getting drafted into this shit without help from the bloody EU I'm going to shoot every single Belgian I see.Are you implying that you need a reason to start shooting Belgian?
I swear to God and all of the friggin messengers, if I end up getting drafted into this shit without help from the bloody EU I'm going to shoot every single Belgian I see.Are you implying that you need a reason to start shooting Belgian?
I may be an American but I still have morals.
Ugh, I said I was gonna quit these freaking things. Ah well, everything kills you on this planet. Only wish I had something better than Camels, things taste worse than asphalt.
So where were we, Ukraine being fucked while everyone else jacks off to it correct?
We shall move onto investing in cigarette companies in the Ukraine and take advantage of the stressful situation, give out free packets. "For the stress" Get them hooked, have the country on its knees with nicotine addictions and Lung cancer.
We shall move onto investing in cigarette companies in the Ukraine and take advantage of the stressful situation, give out free packets. "For the stress" Get them hooked, have the country on its knees with nicotine addictions and Lung cancer.
Eh, they're already doing it on their own.Spoiler"According to the above mentioned 2010 World Bank study 36% (28.6% is the average in Europe) of Ukrainians smoke tobacco, including 31% of those who smoke every day. Men with primary education and women with higher education are inclined to smoking. Some 80% of daily smokers are men. The average age that daily smokers start the habit is decreasing, and at present is 16 years. In the younger age group there are four times as many smokers as in the older age group. The smallest percentage of smokers is to be found in the west of the country (24.6%), while the largest is in the east (34%)."[close]
Or everyone just says 'Fuck the UN', walkout and make a new organization?
Or everyone just says 'Fuck the UN', walkout and make a new organization?
Its called a coalition... remember Iraq? lol :P
Or Kosovo for that matter since no UN security council approval was given for intervention there.
Or everyone just says 'Fuck the UN', walkout and make a new organization?
Its called a coalition... remember Iraq? lol :P
Or Kosovo for that matter since no UN security council approval was given for intervention there.
I think he means something like the UN but less of the power centralized to a few nations.
I swear to God and all of the friggin messengers, if I end up getting drafted into this shit without help from the bloody EU I'm going to shoot every single Belgian I see.
They share a border with the Dutch.I swear to God and all of the friggin messengers, if I end up getting drafted into this shit without help from the bloody EU I'm going to shoot every single Belgian I see.
Wait, why the Belgians? They don't even have a national government for crying out loud. Have some decency.
They share a border with the Dutch.I swear to God and all of the friggin messengers, if I end up getting drafted into this shit without help from the bloody EU I'm going to shoot every single Belgian I see.
Wait, why the Belgians? They don't even have a national government for crying out loud. Have some decency.
Back to topic!
I swear to God and all of the friggin messengers, if I end up getting drafted into this shit without help from the bloody EU I'm going to shoot every single Belgian I see.
Wait, why the Belgians? They don't even have a national government for crying out loud. Have some decency.
Putin may be smart but he still a fucking dictator in my mind, i want his head on a pike as well, invading a country right after a revolution is a ass move.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EOrLUt12-OI/U21Dv7MQAWI/AAAAAAAADlw/fSzVD2GskDU/s649/Screwthat.gif)
This referendum is a farce, just like the one in crimea.
Haha, these barricades made by the pro-Russians were just told to go feck themselvesby the Ukrainian APC drivers.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=661_1399683308
Haha, these barricades made by the pro-Russians were just told to go feck themselvesby the Ukrainian APC drivers.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=661_1399683308
Someone didn't read the above post XD
This just in;Places with Russian Influence and democracy don't mix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imcyNGvbPGw
Apparently caught 3 guys at a checkpoint with 100k referendum forms pre filled out with yes, whilst the referendum for donetsk is supposed to be tomorow.
Democracy my f*cking ass.
Ukraine has large gas and oil assets as well as other natural resources.Btw,
Stop trolling.
Makes it all the more sad.Would you care to elaborate? ???
Ah, but you see, we are the favourite out of the western nations - you fail to understand the point!
Saying that the United Kingdom is in some special strong position, both military and economically, where it can make Russia change its course, but it chooses not to simply because 'mutual respect' and because Putin considers them his 'favorite' western ally...Well, that's a little bit stupid. Actually, it's really stupid. But then again, expectable from FSE's favorite UKIP-supporter.
If it were to be true, it would mean that the UK would be some sort of lone wolf shaking hands with Russia while the rest of the world turns its back on her, and it's very clear that that's not the case.
I said mutual respect, not allied! But the UK IS in a better position to stand up to Russia than France and Germany, because it is NOT dependent on Russian energy imports unlike the other two.
I said mutual respect, not allied! But the UK IS in a better position to stand up to Russia than France and Germany, because it is NOT dependent on Russian energy imports unlike the other two.
None of the western nations are dependent. Dependent means that you can't do without, and we can, in fact, do without Russian gas imports for quite a while before we start having problems. Russia, at the other hand, is very much dependent on the money they get from the export.
I don't wonder why people vote UKIP. I know why they do. British people can't stand change and they can't stand foreigners. The EU changes stuff and it's foreign. Tadaa.
But plz, this isn't the point,
I'm not in a UKIP-high-cloud, I'm in something called reality and hard line facts. A magical far away place from the socialist-liberal dogmaland.
These more extreme nationalist dont take these "civilian" threats and instigations that lightly.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ec_1399832157
They shoot to warn, but unlike most, they shoot to kill after they've shot to warn.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise-400-us-soeldner-von-academi-kaempfen-gegen-separatisten-a-968745.html
National guard is closing in, shit's getting intense.
Yeah grabbing someone's ak in the fire end isn't the smartest thing you can do.These more extreme nationalist dont take these "civilian" threats and instigations that lightly.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ec_1399832157
They shoot to warn, but unlike most, they shoot to kill after they've shot to warn.
How do you mean, they shoot to kill? They fired several warning shots and those guys JUST KEEP COMING. Then someone tries to ATTACK the guards and grabs hold of his AK. That's just ASKING for a freaking bullet.
These more extreme nationalist dont take these "civilian" threats and instigations that lightly.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ec_1399832157
They shoot to warn, but unlike most, they shoot to kill after they've shot to warn.
How do you mean, they shoot to kill? They fired several warning shots and those guys JUST KEEP COMING. Then someone tries to ATTACK the guards and grabs hold of his AK. That's just ASKING for a freaking bullet.
Good old Soviet tactics. The human wave.http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise-400-us-soeldner-von-academi-kaempfen-gegen-separatisten-a-968745.html
National guard is closing in, shit's getting intense.
I had heared 'Blackwater' was in town (formerly called that). I hope they are more professional this time round given the bad track record in Iraq (if its true) but knowing the Russian pov their presence alone will likely inflame peoples anger more than calm it.
Well where else would they be from, Singapore?
Well where else would they be from, Singapore?
RT's favorite thing about this story is that they don't have to warp any information or play with words to create their propaganda. In this case their bias can be judged by their intensity of coverage with this particular story in comparison with other news networks, and their specific rhetoric used when describing events and people. For instance right wing news papers in the US like to refer to Obama by his full name - Barack Hussein Obama. This is technically correct, but it's unnecessary information and their intentions in wording it that way are obvious.
Well where else would they be from, Singapore?
RT's favorite thing about this story is that they don't have to warp any information or play with words to create their propaganda. In this case their bias can be judged by their intensity of coverage with this particular story in comparison with other news networks, and their specific rhetoric used when describing events and people. For instance right wing news papers in the US like to refer to Obama by his full name - Barack Hussein Obama. This is technically correct, but it's unnecessary information and their intentions in wording it that way are obvious.
My point was who gives a rat's ass, PMCs are just mad dog killers for the highest bidder, same as any other mercenary.
Well where else would they be from, Singapore?
RT's favorite thing about this story is that they don't have to warp any information or play with words to create their propaganda. In this case their bias can be judged by their intensity of coverage with this particular story in comparison with other news networks, and their specific rhetoric used when describing events and people. For instance right wing news papers in the US like to refer to Obama by his full name - Barack Hussein Obama. This is technically correct, but it's unnecessary information and their intentions in wording it that way are obvious.
My point was who gives a rat's ass, PMCs are just mad dog killers for the highest bidder, same as any other mercenary.
Right, but the fact that they're an American group is great for fear mongering and sensationalism.
So what.. They are mercenaries.. Who cares what country they are from...
They work for whoever pays best.
Besides that, I do not trust "Der Spiegel" too much. They are known for releasing sensationalistic crap without any background check.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPJ3clZ5mtw
Well where else would they be from, Singapore?
Well where else would they be from, Singapore?
My point is that while the company might be by and large American, the soldiers usually come from all corners of the world.
Besides, I don't really see what the issue is, Clearly. "They just fight for money". Well, guess what, so does any military of any country.
Russia is here to kill your dreams.I don't see what that has to do with the topic. Go posts your comics and memes somewhere elseSpoiler(https://i.imgur.com/WdyZEFA.png)[close]
Beurecrat Nutty poogsRussia is here to kill your dreams.I don't see what that has to do with the topic. Go posts your comics and memes somewhere elseSpoiler(https://i.imgur.com/WdyZEFA.png)[close]
what that has to do with the topic. Go posts your comics and video's somewhere else::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRqnhdOvwys
The Crimea is not Russian and will never be Russian.
If you were wondering why liveleak has been featuring so much bullshit propaganda from RT news lately...Yea, they sold out to Russian Times....
http://www.prlog.org/12299623-ruptly-video-news-agency-and-liveleakcom-announce-content-partnership.htmlRuptly Video News Agency and LiveLeak.com announce content partnership
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=783_1400007121#OmJQLGT1bb5lsrPR.99
The future is inside the spoiler. ;)SpoilerUSSR will return.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdigital-art-gallery.com%2Foid%2F102%2F640x905_17787_Loyal_to_The_Party_2d_sci_fi_post_apocalyptic_ussr_picture_image_digital_art.jpg&hash=8f001b4815d93e30524ed3bdb069d0711074dd0e)[close]
The future is inside the spoiler. ;)SpoilerUSSR will return.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdigital-art-gallery.com%2Foid%2F102%2F640x905_17787_Loyal_to_The_Party_2d_sci_fi_post_apocalyptic_ussr_picture_image_digital_art.jpg&hash=8f001b4815d93e30524ed3bdb069d0711074dd0e)[close]
Putin have mentioned many times that he wish to restore the old Soviet Union.
Also, the first robot seen in this video totally has that killer look. Its only a matter of time until they turn it into a killing machine.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=871_1400148293
From the Crimea. Flag-switching ceremony.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkpKt2Dkgac
I know it is. That's not the point.
This may blow over in the not to distant future.
2 posts above mine same meme :P Hence I used the word 'blow' :DLol, didn't see that xD
Should probably have read the thread before posting :P ::) :-XForgetting one of the golden rules of the forums now, are we? :b
i dont find any of those critical enough of both sides so i seek my news also elsewhere.
I only trust articles that write stuff that support my theories
WORLD WAR III! :-\
WORLD WAR III! :-\
Already got the rifle greased up.
Here's to sending some Russians to their maker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KFGgKPrWfY
and
https://news.vice.com/article/ukraine-is-now-detaining-journalists-too
Good ol' Prince Charles has compared Putin's actions to Hitler, yet the Russians can't seem to see the obvious similarities. Even though Charles' comments were thought to be private, he still voices and analogy that I'm sure many people notice, you'd have to be blind not to see the similarities.
And yet here we are, cozy behind our PCs as innocent people get butchered.
Not sure who I loath more at this point, these rebels or my nation for not having the gall to intervene.
And yet here we are, cozy behind our PCs as innocent people get butchered.
Not sure who I loath more at this point, these rebels or my nation for not having the gall to intervene.
Let's see... EU against Russia 1v1...
That's going to be a long, bloody, horrible war.
So what, we're gonna stand back and watch another nation destroy itself?
What, are we going to wait until it's a nation that matters before we intervene?
Let things settle themselves out
I'm Jingoistic when it comes to this stuff, yes.
If the US goes in, Europe will follow. But I see your point, and that's one of the reason why I'm not kicking up more of a storm over it, we don't need another Pakistan or Afghanistan.
But we had a treaty with these guys, because of Iraq we gave the Russians a precedent. How can we stand by and do nothing?
Let things settle themselves out
"Leave it to its fate." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide#International_response)
Lol honestly a war which you guys are referring to may not even happen in our lifetime, or maybe when we are older, or not at all. Nuclear armed countries would do anything to prevent war with one another.
I'd rather wait and see if the Ukraine can settle it on it's own. The last time we sent military forces to a country to "help" we got dragged into a 10 year conflict that we couldn't afford. We don't need another one.
1v1 EUvRussia, Russia would win. Putin would send in his bear cavalry then it's gg.
Honestly though, I doubt Europe would realistically "band together" [EEUUU..UNNITTE!].
Woohoo Simon!
Nice drawing. I'm not sure what the message is, though, but I guess something about Anarchism and it being great?
Nice drawing. I'm not sure what the message is, though, but I guess something about Anarchism and it being great?
"Really fucking messed up."
Care for dessert? I call it "Religion with a side of Fascism a la mode""Really fucking messed up."
Welcome to humanity, table for two? We charge only $100 for the dinner-theatre, our current act is Ukraine.
Oh no. Russia propaganda "ALL OF EUROPA IS FACIST! SOON UKRAINE WILL BE TAKEN OVER! WE MUST INVADE!"+1
FASCISTS EVERYWHERE!!!
Ha-ha, they're only considered fascist by a few people, who frankly need to get some basic education, the last time I checked RT managed to publish some very positive stuff about UKIP and NF and the late elections, and that's RT.Meant as a a reinforcer to what you wrote:
Some people here really went far with "horrible machine of Russian propaganda".
Oh no. Russia propaganda "ALL OF EUROPA IS FACIST! SOON UKRAINE WILL BE TAKEN OVER! WE MUST INVADE!"
FASCISTS EVERYWHERE!!!
Oh no. Russia propaganda "ALL OF EUROPA IS FACIST! SOON UKRAINE WILL BE TAKEN OVER! WE MUST INVADE!"
FASCISTS EVERYWHERE!!!
Speaking of FASCISTS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1MYMVfyHi0
*Not Ukraine*. Just found this interesting, fascism is everywhere.
And his chocolates... seriously he should kick off his presidency with trucks of chocolate for the people. You'd have my vote El Chocodente!
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtdVVFhjdqA[/youtube]
The Ukraine goverment has had enough it seems.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtdVVFhjdqA[/youtube]
The Ukraine goverment has had enough it seems.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtdVVFhjdqA[/youtube]
The Ukraine goverment has had enough it seems.
Why can't you simply be against nazi's and right wing facism without having to be communistic... this way you will not get 1000 people to protest against those people you can pretty much gather 70% of the countries population... Anyway lets get back on topic.
I am quite excited to see the new president in his seat.. Only time will tell if he holds his promises.
Communism, if done correctly would result in a utopia. But due to the human condition, something like that would never happen.
Holy shit. That seems to cover just about everything. Thank you.SpoilerThere's no 100% good source of information.
Vice is great in terms of taking you to the location and filling you in on what's going on while checking up on some of the assertions/accusations found in the mainstream media but it can sometimes feel like one goose-chase after another that sometimes leaves you none the wiser because it doesn't go into huge depth in terms of geopolitical background information but is more narrowly focused on what is happening on the ground. Its a must see if you want to complement in depth information with on the ground information, though very often one finds oneself emotionally involved in whats going on on the ground while finding it difficult to get an overall overview based on the raw cuts of footage one is getting (hence I suggest complimenting it with other sources). Vice is a lot more neutral in its language than most. For example when referring to the Eastern uprising Vice will refer to them as pro-Russian instead of Russian-led as its still unclear if Russia is leading that uprising or just broadcasting propaganda into it to cause instability in the Ukraine. For the most part Russia doesn't seem eager to annex the east because (according to BBC Hardtalk's interview with a Putin adviser who was as blunt as he was articulate; Russia doesn't have enough support in the East. Only in Crimea).
Aljazeera uses stronger language claiming the east is Russian-led but doesn't expand on what it means by Russian-led. It has some good articles sometimes but doesn't seem impartial in its coverage. Russia Today is a Russian state owned channel likely created to offset the sometimes bias coverage in U.S. media channels. RT's reporting when it comes to Ukraine is bias with sometimes false stories being reported such as '80 Ukranian soldiers taken prisoner' during the recent fighting while omitting less than favorable but important stories such as the fact that the Pro-Russian separatists sustained heavy losses in the in the fighting. Nonetheless it has interesting stories and points of view with a more broad geopolitical scope and overview but it is largely focused on comparing Russian decision making to U.S./NATO decision making and thereby attempting to expose the hypocrisy of its competitor. I do not recommend it as a sole source of news especially given the conflict of interest and I recommend double checking anything you read there with a mainstream source. If you have time and inquisitive mind it can sometimes yield interesting povs.
The BBC is more impartial then most U.S. news networks but like many news channels doesn't always provide in depth information leaving one's impression of a particular scenario skewered by he said/she said. The BBC has been accused of airing documentaries that where paid for by foreign governments.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/bbc-to-issue-global-apology-for-documentaries-that-broke-rules-6719997.html
It has faced criticism of bias from all sides which its head has described as a good thing. One study claims to have found them to have a left-center bias: http://www.cps.org.uk/files/reports/original/130814102945-BBCBiasOliverLathamfc.pdf
The Guardian I would say provides a more broad point of view in terms of publishing stories that sometimes go against its own country's interests and that sometimes go into depth with interesting geopolitical or historical information to provide context. I have seen it publish opinion pieces, information and stories that completely disagree with each other from one day to the next on so called grey areas. It was the logical choice for Snowden to pass on his documents and the Guardian stood its ground when the government tried to pressure it. The Guardian's main readers are apparently labor voters but it hasn't held back criticism of the invasion of the Iraq war although I don't recall if that criticism came late or not.
In any case I can't recommend just using a singular source of news since each have differing traits and benefits.[close]
We also shouldn't forget that Europeans and Americans also gave armed right-wing thugs carte blanche to attack Ukrainian police.
The right in the US is already equating Obama to Jimmy Carter or Neville Chamberlain, in other words weak and spineless. And in an election year this could have serious consequences; it puts a lot of pressure on Obama to 'do something.'
Hooray, another Sherman march. So much fun, just marching and taking food and have a large group of slaves following us to the sea but somewhere, they drown to death. Hmm wonderful time! Oh yeah there's one little part where 150 years later everyone going to change the story to the march of rape, mass destruction of entire plantation house in state of Georgia, and Genocide!
fun.
I think Sherman was a tad better at sparking firesHooray, another Sherman march. So much fun, just marching and taking food and have a large group of slaves following us to the sea but somewhere, they drown to death. Hmm wonderful time! Oh yeah there's one little part where 150 years later everyone going to change the story to the march of rape, mass destruction of entire plantation house in state of Georgia, and Genocide!
fun.
Reason why you don't want me to go on that kind of rant.
I don't bother to hide my pure contempt for the Confederate States of America, but I'm not interested in going onto a long rant which will just spark fires.
Sherman's march to sea will LITERALLY repeat itself.
Ogniem i mieczem ;)Sherman's march to sea will LITERALLY repeat itself.
I'll be sure to stand there to stop you just as my ancestor tried to do.
Found this. Didn't know where to post it. It's Ukrainian.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOYR_jt7P3U[/youtube]
http://tahriricn.wordpress.com/2014/06/05/ukraine-against-the-regime-in-kyiv-and-the-junta-in-the-east-awu-kyiv-statement-on-the-conflict-in-the-eastern-regions/#more-1861
We demand from the Kyiv government to remove the troops from the cities
immediately, and from the Eastern junta to stop terrorizing peaceful working people.
Our own goal is to keep up the resistance at all fronts and to build revolutionary labour
movement against all the odds.We call on our fellow Ukrainian workers to line up behind our common class interests,
I think Poreshenko actually said something on his way out to the soldier. That's nice and thoughtful, at least. :P
I think Poreshenko actually said something on his way out to the soldier. That's nice and thoughtful, at least. :POr he said "why the fudge did you collapse mate? your shiet".
Lord have mercy... what the hell is the Ukrainian government thinking...
What is interesting, few days ago Russia wanted to give new discount for Ukraine, but Ukrainian government wanted bigger discounts and thus agreement was not met.
Holy shit guys, Raddeo's name is an annogram.
If you look closly and swap the letters around, his name spells. "DirtyRedSpy"
http://vidmax.com/video/73732-Ukrainian-military-retakes-Mariupol-with-their-battle-Dump-TruckDat dumptruck
*nods*
http://vidmax.com/video/73732-Ukrainian-military-retakes-Mariupol-with-their-battle-Dump-TruckDat dumptruck
*nods*
Interesting footage. That has to be national guard, though.There were National Guard and Azov(volunteer battalion of territorial defense) in Mariupol action.
Forgot the one before last for some reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8S2AcR-oaA
I notice is that the populace in Donetsk was eager to go out and "Kill Fascists" but their border territory is paying the price. Now instead of the civilians moving out at the first sign of trouble, their leaders let them stay there and now they're casualties or soon will be. I'm sure a few of the people interviewed in this may end up dead by the end of the month on their own neglect of personal safety and self-preservation. However every step of the way they'll cry "Fascists! Fascists! We're just civilians!"
Even with the U.S. military having many, many accurate weapons and multiple layers of bureaucracy before heavy weapons are used in civilian environments innocent people still wind up in the crossfire and dead. People underestimate the absolutely devastating killing power modern weaponry is capable of.
With the issue of the separatists they too easily resorted to violence to gain independence and they aren't emotionally ready to prepare for what that will cost.
Quote from: Pierre Cyrin another of Vice's videos there is a woman who is pro-Ukrainian at one of the Donets rallies who was holding up her Ukrainian passport and she was spat at and some guy tried to grab it from her before a policeman intervened. They were calling her Fascist and a couple other buzzwords. So yes, I agree.
Its easy for a pro russian civilian to speak out in a pro russian held region or town. A pro ukrainian wont likely speak out for fear of reprisals.
It's silly how Russia can get away with just delivering all that stuff to the separatists and still claim they want a peaceful solution.
That's not true. The EU and the US openly support the Ukrainian support. Russia, at the other hand, claims some sort of neutrality, calling up for 'peaceful talks' while meanwhile 'secretly' supporting the separatists.I'm curious why you seem to be bastardizing Russia for supporting anti-democratic factions in a chaotic nation. The US, a so-called bastion of democracy, has been doing this ever since we've had the ability to. Most notably after WWII and duuring (huehue) the Cold War. In fact, almost every nation in history has done this in some fashion to push their own agenda. Do I agree with you that it's wrong? Yes. But as Nipplestockings said, let's drop the double standard. I'll begin to actually accuse Russia of being a manipulative cunt as soon as the US and "freedom-loving" nations stop doing the same thing. It's just a different side of the same bullshit coin
SpoilerWe're both Empires. Anyone who cannot see that is blind to both modern politics and history. We both throw the propaganda around hardcore, where it's mostly much more simple problems or disagreements that kind of get sidelined.
For example, nationalistic Ukrainians have rallied against the Soviet Union for years. They were also at the brunt of Stalin's induced starvation which left roughly 7,000,000 Ukrainians dead during '32-'33. During WWII the Ukrainians welcomed the Germans (more or less) with open arms as liberators, but under Hitler's oppressive policies (Lebensraum) there grew a huge dissent. They shared the same feelings as the Poles who hated both the Germans and the Russians. But during the fighting the Western Ukrainians offered volunteers to the German army as either non-combatant volunteers, or integrated into the Army (including their own SS Brigade, 14.SS "Galizien") but of course there were many Ukrainians who felt cheated and betrayed by the Germans or had family killed by Germans (there were huge battles that were all across Ukraine, where most of the fighting on the Eastern Front was done for a good amount of time) and took up arms against them.
When all was said and done, the German Army volunteers were repatriated back to Russia by the UK as a Post-War deal between the powers. (The exception being 14.SS, due to them having ties to the Vatican from the Catholic chaplains. These weren't typically part of SS formations, but Galizien was an exception that ended up saving a lot of lives, as the Vatican successfully persuaded the British to turn a blind eye to the unit which was in Italy at the time.) Quite a few were shot at arrival; others sent to the gulags. This was even the case with Soviet POWs from the earlier advances from the German Army during Operation Barbarossa. A tragic story for those who were expecting liberation from the war-torn, hungered, and bombed out German POW camps.
I remember before the protests kicked up there was a burial for one of the 14.SS guys in Ukraine and it was supported by Svoboda and had reenactors in uniform that did a rifle salute for him. There was a protest and whatnot, hence the big story I suppose. It just kind of goes into the culture of Ukraine vs Russia that really rose out of the government changing hands after the protests and the radical groups that took action and recruited.[close]
It's silly how Russia can get away with just delivering all that stuff to the separatists and still claim they want a peaceful solution.
Probably because we're doing the exact same thing so we can't say shit about it. Russia jumps at any chance it gets to call us hypocrites, and with every Russian claim against us their propaganda machine grows. If we really want to diffuse this situation peacefully we should stop operating on a double standard.
Spoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nmo9dZTmo0Edit: They just made the video private for some reason. I would guess some higher ups in the Ukrainian military saw the thing about the Swastika and made VICE take it down for fear of making them look bad. Strange.
Edit 2: They reuploaded it.[close]
I think now that they've done this, they should go to the Ukrainian gun positions and talk with an Artillery Officer if possible.
"...Too many people are dying over this, and neither side seems to have intentions on stopping until the other is obliterated. What a shame, because the major victims are the ones caught in the crossfire, and in the end superheated lead projectiles and explosives don't have political beliefs."
Poor russians...it's so easy to brainwash them with TV, their main source of information that i almost feel bad for them. They blame americans in everything, and by annexing Crimea and supporting separatist movement in the east they think they're helping us (no kidding). Pathetic.
As a half-russian, half-ukrainian guy who was born in Ukraine, but spent half of my life in Russia i was always divided on whom should i feel myself, russian or ukrainian, but with the recent events i can proudly say that i'm 100% Ukrainian, and i want my Ukraine to become a better country, with no corruption, better life standarts, happy people. THAT'S why Maidan has happened, and THAT IS why people don't want Ukraine to join Eurasian Union with Russia, but want to move westwards to EU! We don't see our future with Russia, it's not my only opinion, but opinion of majority of ukrainians, including eastern ukraine, trust me i have many friends there. Of course we're not so naive, and we know that if we join EU life won't become great instantly, no. But it's a move in the right direction for sure.
For the video above me - these people who pointing fingers at each other are not traitors, or bad people or separatists or whatever, they were just scared for their lifes and their family lifes, these are mostly old people, who remember soviet times when you can easily get in jail for thinking another way.
What they were doing is not an abnormal behavior. It is anything but trashy it is completely natural and expected in a post-besieged rebel settlement.Quote from: scrooglemcdoogle"...Too many people are dying over this, and neither side seems to have intentions on stopping until the other is obliterated. What a shame, because the major victims are the ones caught in the crossfire, and in the end superheated lead projectiles and explosives don't have political beliefs."
Quoted for truth.
The civilians in the square not long ago flying their separatist flags are the first to point fingers. They're all lying and the way they betray each other is absolutely disgusting and overall very trashy behavior. To think good and honest people died and they get to scurry around... it's sickening.
What they were doing is not an abnormal behavior. It is anything but trashy it is completely natural and expected in a post-besieged rebel settlement.Quote from: scrooglemcdoogle"...Too many people are dying over this, and neither side seems to have intentions on stopping until the other is obliterated. What a shame, because the major victims are the ones caught in the crossfire, and in the end superheated lead projectiles and explosives don't have political beliefs."
Quoted for truth.
The civilians in the square not long ago flying their separatist flags are the first to point fingers. They're all lying and the way they betray each other is absolutely disgusting and overall very trashy behavior. To think good and honest people died and they get to scurry around... it's sickening.
What they were doing is not an abnormal behavior. It is anything but trashy it is completely natural and expected in a post-besieged rebel settlement.Quote from: scrooglemcdoogle"...Too many people are dying over this, and neither side seems to have intentions on stopping until the other is obliterated. What a shame, because the major victims are the ones caught in the crossfire, and in the end superheated lead projectiles and explosives don't have political beliefs."
Quoted for truth.
The civilians in the square not long ago flying their separatist flags are the first to point fingers. They're all lying and the way they betray each other is absolutely disgusting and overall very trashy behavior. To think good and honest people died and they get to scurry around... it's sickening.
To sell out your fellow countrymen and try and look innocent? I completely disagree. If they had a lick of honor or honesty, they'd owe up to being separatist supporters or just not say a word. People can still be defeated and retain their honor and dignity.
Romanticized honor and dignity go out the window when you are longer guaranteed protection and your best hope of protection is to sell out your neighbor. These people are desperate, hungry, scared, and afraid. I'm sure we can all suspend our own notions of honor, glory, duty, and freedom for the slightest moment and realize the base human needs and emotions of the situationWhat they were doing is not an abnormal behavior. It is anything but trashy it is completely natural and expected in a post-besieged rebel settlement.Quote from: scrooglemcdoogle"...Too many people are dying over this, and neither side seems to have intentions on stopping until the other is obliterated. What a shame, because the major victims are the ones caught in the crossfire, and in the end superheated lead projectiles and explosives don't have political beliefs."
Quoted for truth.
The civilians in the square not long ago flying their separatist flags are the first to point fingers. They're all lying and the way they betray each other is absolutely disgusting and overall very trashy behavior. To think good and honest people died and they get to scurry around... it's sickening.
To sell out your fellow countrymen and try and look innocent? I completely disagree. If they had a lick of honor or honesty, they'd owe up to being separatist supporters or just not say a word. People can still be defeated and retain their honor and dignity.
Like the good people of Greece are doing now, organising themselves because they have become aware.
Whatever the truth, my humble opinion is that the US went WAY to far this time with ukraine and the only victims of this game are the citizens, both ukrainians and russians
same, TheGreek. No war between nations, only class war is justified. Like the good people of Greece are doing now, organising themselves because they have become aware.
They're trying to help putin and his Honourable and honest plan.
Romanticized honor and dignity go out the window when you are longer guaranteed protection and your best hope of protection is to sell out your neighbor. These people are desperate, hungry, scared, and afraid. I'm sure we can all suspend our own notions of honor, glory, duty, and freedom for the slightest moment and realize the base human needs and emotions of the situation
Video
Romanticized honor and dignity go out the window when you are longer guaranteed protection and your best hope of protection is to sell out your neighbor. These people are desperate, hungry, scared, and afraid. I'm sure we can all suspend our own notions of honor, glory, duty, and freedom for the slightest moment and realize the base human needs and emotions of the situation
You're entitled to your own opinion, but I would like to know what the US did exactly according to you. I also fail to see how Russian citizens are the victims here. Ethic Russians with the Ukrainian nationality are still Ukrainian.
Duuring, your opinion doesnt matter since you go to the Radboud aka Kissinger and Reagan school.
You just can't deal with the fact that people can organise themselves and their communoties. Ofcourse you only see what you want to see which is people rioting in the streets, fall for the media and state rhetoric against your own people instead of the capitalists that created these recessions and economic collapse.
In the end it doesnt matter what you will reply with, you're part of the uncool middle class twerps that i have to deal with dail and their silly strawman arguments.
Duuring is Hans Wiegel 2.0
In short, your pointof view on things is inferior and should be treated as such.
What i think is grim is when workers decide to organise themselves without the capitalist, the state will protect the capitalists interests over the workers. How is that democracy, especially when its the workers who are acting in a democratic fashion.
Anyone who doesnt understand that yoy can't have Political Democracy without Economic Democracy isn't worth having a conversation with unless they genuinely want to know which isnt the case with you.
And to be slightly ontopic again with Ukraine, the Autonomous Workers Union over there has organised several refugee centers to aid victims of the conflict.
Workers control and Capitalism can co-exist as workers band together and start up new cooperatives in their communities. This will create a new kind of society where people have the option to work for a capitalist enterprise or a cooperative and they can find out what fits their needs. This will also interest and empower ordinary people to get involved in politics again since they have an economic stake in society.
lol ur retardedWow, how can we combat such a statement, we're all surely defeated in thid debate.
"No, I GOOGLE my answers!" - Augy
"No, I GOOGLE my answers!" - Augy
Says the stephan molyneux cultist.
walloftextaboutnationalism.exe
Then move somewhere where such a community exists. You aren't a nationalist are you?Then move somewhere where such a community exists.
walloftextaboutnationalism.exeThen move somewhere where such a community exists. You aren't a nationalist are you?Then move somewhere where such a community exists.
move somewhere where such a community exists.
move somewhere
move
I think he's implying that nationalists... don't move away. They stay in their home.walloftextaboutnationalism.exeThen move somewhere where such a community exists. You aren't a nationalist are you?Then move somewhere where such a community exists.
move somewhere where such a community exists.
move somewhere
move
Maybe he can't afford to because he spends all his time complaining about "da institution" and smoking weed instead of working. Don't be so insensitive! Capitalist dog.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?c=mobile-homepage-t&page=1
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?c=mobile-homepage-t&page=1
Who cares, you jingoists can't wait to blow each others brains out so go at it already.
Who cares, you jingoists can't wait to blow each others brains out so go at it already.Way to sound like an asshole.
Theres far more distressing amounts of people dying daily without any news coverage. This just serves another purpose and they got all the sheep bleating havoc.
Why.. was that plane flying over a war zone in the first place??
Theres far more distressing amounts of people dying daily without any news coverage. This just serves another purpose and they got all the sheep bleating havoc.
It's also worth taking into consideration the fact that neither the Ukrainian military nor the separatist forces have access to the ordinance that would be required to take down a plane flying at that altitude.Both have missile system "Buk" (SA-11 Gadfly) and it can take down planes on such altitude.
We lost many country men today because of a bunch of manchilds controlling anti air missiles in eastern ukraine, equipment that they got for free from a certain russian man...Special ops everything
I hope the Netherlands asks permission from the Ukranian gov to bring troops in and squash down these terrorists once and for all.
So now is it fair if I go full jingoist?
So now is it fair if I go full jingoist?I don't think so because you know, jingoism.
Like, I'm not trying to take those pictures seriously cause they aren't meant to be but statements like that is what leads to a bloodier conflict. But whatevesSpoiler(https://i.imgur.com/vU1V0AL.jpg)
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmemedepot.com%2Fuploads%2F0%2F177_liberate.jpg&hash=bda845ff0cce85cedea6fbb3eef629275b89dbfa)
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftomheller.de%2Ftheholycymbal%2Fpics%2Fdemocracybombs.jpg&hash=8af1f9796acb29d4d49c2bf7d8e08c5233641da7)
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In all seriousness, let's go fuck Putin into the next century.
I honestly don't want war with Russia, I want Putin dealt with, and in order to do that, you need to have war with Russia.So you honestly do want war with Russia. Whatever natural bloodlust that is inside you is apparently saying to you that it's despicable to shoot down a plane in a terrorist format BUT IF WE bomb them in a proper, HONORABLE format then its okay and we can avenge people who are dead and frankly have little to no say it what happens.
Or we go Zero Dark Thirty on his ass.
While I'll admit I tend to be a bit of an American nationalist at times I don't give 2 shits about the US in this scenario. I'm more worried about Ukraine.
The only thing that stops me from wanting an all out war is that the Russian people don't deserve to have their lives ruined. Again, reason I'd like the Zero Dark Thirty option.
While I'll admit I tend to be a bit of an American nationalist at times I don't give 2 shits about the US in this scenario. I'm more worried about Ukraine.Out of curiousity, why are you worried about the Ukraine? Not to sound like a dick, but the Ukraine doesn't need our sympathy or charity.
The only thing that stops me from wanting an all out war is that the Russian people don't deserve to have their lives ruined. Again, reason I'd like the Zero Dark Thirty option.
Spoiler(https://i.imgur.com/vU1V0AL.jpg)
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In all seriousness, let's go fuck Putin into the next century.
So now is it fair if I go full jingoist?
While I'll admit I tend to be a bit of an American nationalist at times I don't give 2 shits about the US in this scenario. I'm more worried about Ukraine.Out of curiousity, why are you worried about the Ukraine? Not to sound like a dick, but the Ukraine doesn't need our sympathy or charity.
The only thing that stops me from wanting an all out war is that the Russian people don't deserve to have their lives ruined. Again, reason I'd like the Zero Dark Thirty option.
These nations like the Ukraine and Iraq have never really had the chance to be real nations or real democracies/whatever they want to be. They've been lumped into a singular group by the Russians (in Iraq's case, the British) and obviously have never really liked one another or always have had tendencies towards fighting each other.Chaos is one thing, being basically invaded is another. Before this there had been little to no conflict in Ukraine over nationality. Now all of a sudden Euromaden happens and everyone's pissed? It's more fishy than Boston Harbor.
Will people die? Will there be civil war? Yes but every great nation in history has had the opportunity to be greatly chaotic, these guys need that for better or for worse.
Considering the situation, I'd disagree with that.While I'll admit I tend to be a bit of an American nationalist at times I don't give 2 shits about the US in this scenario. I'm more worried about Ukraine.Out of curiousity, why are you worried about the Ukraine? Not to sound like a dick, but the Ukraine doesn't need our sympathy or charity.
The only thing that stops me from wanting an all out war is that the Russian people don't deserve to have their lives ruined. Again, reason I'd like the Zero Dark Thirty option.
These nations like the Ukraine and Iraq have never really had the chance to be real nations or real democracies/whatever they want to be. They've been lumped into a singular group by the Russians (in Iraq's case, the British) and obviously have never really liked one another or always have had tendencies towards fighting each other.Chaos is one thing, being basically invaded is another. Before this there had been little to no conflict in Ukraine over nationality. Now all of a sudden Euromaden happens and everyone's pissed? It's more fishy than Boston Harbor.
Will people die? Will there be civil war? Yes but every great nation in history has had the opportunity to be greatly chaotic, these guys need that for better or for worse.
Any translation for this?Damn you Rosetta Stone, teach me faster!
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Any translation for this?
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Well here's an awful translation from Google's image recognition software. Sort of provides the gist of it though - looks like a propaganda poster telling the rebels to lay down their arms, most likely circulated on Facebook and other social media.what the fuck did you translate it to? Klingon?SpoilerPryzustrichi 3ukrayinskymy viyskovosluzhbovymynerano leave the weapon on Earth, raise your hands and sing loudly intoned dczvolyaEtsya) neooitsiynyy internatsonalnyy iMnofiynoho sponsor wwarodnoroteroryzmu LA-LA-LA-A A-LA if near nemae Ukrainian viyskovosluzhboztsv, you can refer to local residents 3 For pure kayanyam destruction of their peaceful life. Lay down their arms and stay on Ma to the appearance ukrayinskoT army or other pravcohoronnyh spraniv Ukraine, waiting for just zakonnoro Court under committed Terorystychnyk your actions and crimes. After meeting with Ukrainian viyskozymy you haranyetsya fair legal punishment, imprisonment safe, diverse prison food.[close]
Obviously its a joke poster.Well considering it's Fallout themed, yeah.
I don't know about Ukraine or Russia, but when has there been footage in the US of masses of people weeping over things that didn't affect them? 9/11? Everyone shown weeping in NYC after the disaster was actually there and witnessed it, or lost someone.I saw a bit of something like that after Newtown Shooting
Can't think of any other time in recent history where crowds of people just broke down in tears for no reason.
I saw that too, but those were almost exclusively people who actually lived in Newtown and experienced it first hand.Adam Lanza made everyone cri I don't know what ur talking about
In other news, I was at a rememberance ceromony in a nearby city and I managed to get my face on the front page of a big newspaper.
America could always free Ukraine.
Yeah, looking at Egypt, Sudan and a bunch of other ex-colonies, sure gives you the feeling that, having been a part of the empire, your future is bright and stable.
Mmhm.. facists are rising up ::)
The red scare is still alive Augy, people are afraid of a communist society, and like you said many of those who call themselves communists are indeed not communists. As unfortunate as it is, it is very unlikely that a successful communist society can rise to combat the fascists that are coming up.
Communism and Facism is actually the same thing with few differences. Look China and North Korea now they have communism. They are free and equal right? No. As for Facism check Syria now and Lybia with Kadafi. I can't see the difference between them. But these are not the worst idealogies, Anarchism is.
Everyone who follow all these ideologies is mentally retarded. But as long we have democrasy (except Russia) we must let them live with us.
;)Communism and Facism is actually the same thing with few differences. Look China and North Korea now they have communism. They are free and equal right? No. As for Facism check Syria now and Lybia with Kadafi. I can't see the difference between them. But these are not the worst idealogies, Anarchism is.
Everyone who follow all these ideologies is mentally retarded. But as long we have democrasy (except Russia) we must let them live with us.
This guy. I like him.
Communism and Facism is actually the same thing with few differences. Look China and North Korea now they have communism. They are free and equal right? No. As for Facism check Syria now and Lybia with Kadafi. I can't see the difference between them. But these are not the worst idealogies, Anarchism is.
Everyone who follow all these ideologies is mentally retarded. But as long we have democrasy (except Russia) we must let them live with us.
This guy. I like him.
America could always free Ukraine, but since Obama is a pansy pacifist, he won't go in.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You guys either want to believe or want to trick us into believing that the only alternative to capitalism is some kind of authoritarian society with a powerful state owning all the means of production (cf. the Soviet Union etc). This is completely false.
Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, Jucheism and all other similar tyrannical systems are awful. They should not be introduced, they should be rejected.
So what other alternatives are there to capitalism?
There is another proposal. It's about creating a society where the means of production are controlled not by powerful capitalists, nor by a powerful state, but instead by the workers and the communities. In other words, a decentralized, federated society with a more participatory and direct democracy in which the communities and the workplaces are controlled democratically by the people who work and live there.
This way of organizing society is often called libertarian socialism. It is the anti-authoritarian socialism that opposes all forms of authoritarian systems and illegitimate hierarchies, and instead wants a free, non-hierarchical society where the institutions are controlled collectively by participants.
This has also worked very well in real life. We’ve seen many examples of societies and businesses based on libertarian socialist, or at least libertarian socialist-like principles that have worked very well. The Spanish Revolution is obviously worth mentioning here, as well as Mondragon and the Evergreen Cooperatives, but there have also been interesting developments in other countries as well, like Argentina, for example.
In other words, it’s not a question of whether we can achieve a free and just society based on workers’ self-management & workplace democracy, but how we most effectively can get there (I mentioned some of the things I think we should focus on in the struggle for such a society here ).
A libertarian socialist society will lead to human liberation. By creating a participatory democracy where people have control over their own workplaces and communities, people will be free from authority and dominance and no longer treated like cogs in a machine. They will have control over their own lives; they'll be free.
The alternative to capitalism is democracy -- including workplace democracy
Links:
Richard Wolff on Workplace Democracy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls7QZm7omh8)
Noam Chomsky on Workplace Democracy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ugGqJcro2w)
Gar Alperovitz on Workplace Democracy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4G3aSTH_uE)
Cooperatives (playlist) (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA6jWAYzTIJfb-LPnn8FhTwF8KWCldeGt)
America could always free Ukraine, but since Obama is a pansy pacifist, he won't go in.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pacifist when US soldiers are still being killed in Afghanistan as we speak. We have our own issues.
Until the point where people take their liberties or priviliges for granted and stop caring. The amount of people who vote slings every election. Doesn't matter if it's local, Parliament or presidental elections. The whole argument of anarchism is bringing the decision-making closer to the people, but if that works, why do only 30% of all people vote in local elections, the election that is not only closests to them but also the election in which their vote means the most (1 of 5.000 instead of 1 of 11 million).
We get to vote once every four year. Yet people, en masse, decide not to because, so they feel, it does not concern them. Too far away. Too lazy. How, I ask you, is that going to get any better if we have a vote every month, maybe every week, on every single piece of decision making. I also remind you of the fact that the average citizens lacks the intelligence or simply the knowledge on subjects to make a well-thought out decision.
I also must note that you, once again, praise the idea of democracy into the sky, while you have shown, on several occasions, you have no regard nor respect of the opinions of other, even going as far as calling my opinion 'inferior'. Democracy doesn't mean we get to say what the system approves of. That would be considerably worse then the system we live now in.
i hate jews
Please, more Ukraine, less pissing contest.Ukraine? Please. No one goes there anymore.
So... Ukraine.... it's erm.... something?
Hello, Augy. You want some money? some food? That's what you need?. Why don't you get a job? if you're so hungry why don't you get a job? or is it because you lost your job? you drinkin'? is that why you lost it?. Listen, get a goddamn job, Augy. You got a negative attitude. That's what's stopping you. You need to get your shit together. I'll help you.
You really want that ban don't you?
I'll grab Vinny. Wouldn't be surprised if this was Elias back from the dead.
Don't dilute yourself wit the presumption that the Anarchists are free from and wrong-doing Augy. Makes you look naive.
Communism and Facism is actually the same thing with few differences. Look China and North Korea now they have communism. They are free and equal right? No. As for Facism check Syria now and Lybia with Kadafi. I can't see the difference between them. But these are not the worst idealogies, Anarchism is.
Everyone who follow all these ideologies is mentally retarded. But as long we have democrasy (except Russia) we must let them live with us.
Communism and Facism is actually the same thing with few differences. Look China and North Korea now they have communism. They are free and equal right? No. As for Facism check Syria now and Lybia with Kadafi. I can't see the difference between them. But these are not the worst idealogies, Anarchism is.
Everyone who follow all these ideologies is mentally retarded. But as long we have democrasy (except Russia) we must let them live with us.
Well you're partly right in principle, but the examples you provided don't support your argument. The countries you listed by and large were or are their alleged political systems in name , but not always those systems in policy or practice. Almost all of these countries, like Communist China and North Korea, attempted purely communist policies early on with some (relative to political theory) practical success, however they very soon strayed from these policies when they realized that they were imperfect and had to adopt at least a few capitalist or free market strains of thought.
Fascism has, in turn not worked in any countries since its advent with Mussolini and Hitler. Even here, Mussolini's purely fascist ideologies were only effective for a few years until he was ousted from power and the country changed directions entirely. Fascism as an ideology and long term set of structures is doomed to fail from the very outset, and this is because inevitably being a militarist asshole functioning on a constant war economy will come back to bite you - and usually sooner rather than later.
In the case of communism working in the long run - equally doomed to fail. It presumes far too much about human nature, and it somehow forces the notion that once the oppressed classes unite and exert collective control over their society that they'll somehow be satisfied with their lives, and continue to be so through thick and thin. Many leaders failed to realize the instability and fault in both of these plans, and that's why we saw communist countries like Stalinist Russia becoming increasingly militarised and turned into a police state almost from the moment Lenin died. This is even more evident in countries like the Khmer Rouge and North Korea, where any communist principles or policies seem to be virtually nonexistent and tyranny and oppression are the only accurately describable terms which can be applied to the populace there.
I rambled so much here I sort of forgot what my original point was, but really what I'm trying to say is that in many cases with Communism and fascism the original ideals have only persisted for a relatively short time, and then have given way to utter oppression of all classes, not just the ones labeled as decadent or degenerate by the party leader. They lead to oligarchic or tyrannical country of the government, which in turn leads to civil and national unrest, thereby destroying the country from the inside out. As I said - doomed to fail.
Sorry for any bad spelling or grammar, typing from my phone with autocorrect.
Ukrainians protest conscription by burning their conscription orders !
No War!
Everyone is Netherlandia toked dat weed and now is calm. Good.Ukrainians protest conscription by burning their conscription orders !
No War!
More like "I AIN'T FIGHTIN' NO SHIT". Everybody is exactly the same here.
Every male Dutchmen is eligible for conscription. We get a letter saying so when we are 17 or 18. No one cares about the law, but now that there's a 'risk' of the conscription being actived (Not that there is, really), all I hear people talking about is how they are going to evade it.Seems, you know, perfectly natural. Considering dying and stuff
The country pays for my education, my health, my transport and my safety - Seems fair that I could be called up to protect it and its citizens.
The only problem I have with it, is that women can't be conscripted.
Every male Dutchmen is eligible for conscription. We get a letter saying so when we are 17 or 18. No one cares about the law, but now that there's a 'risk' of the conscription being actived (Not that there is, really), all I hear people talking about is how they are going to evade it.
I wonder if Augy ever smiles...
If the war really did concern you, you would of course volunteer. Like if Canada all of a sudden marched in all guns blazing lol.
If the war really did concern you, you would of course volunteer. Like if Canada all of a sudden marched in all guns blazing lol.
I don't think you realize just how many readily available soldiers you need to fight a large scale war. Even if the population is incredibly motivated and eager to volunteer, the demand usually does not meet the supply. Even I'm ww2 when volunteer levels were off the charts in the US, it was still not enough. It's not about how just the war is at all. It's about your available resources and what you can afford.
With all due respect Chomsky is a known idiot. A conscripted soldier is worse than a Militiaman.
Women are unstoppable, the men all went into hiding. Big respect for women since they think more in these situations.lolwat?
It's entirely legal for the government to perform a draft and the only way of avoiding it is by losing your Ukrainian citizenship.
It's entirely legal for the government to perform a draft and the only way of avoiding it is by losing your Ukrainian citizenship.
Thats a form of blackmail. You don't do what we tell you? find another arbitrary piece of land to live on. Makes sense to someone who jerks of to States and has a stake in its perpetuation but normal people have nothing to gain from this so these ladies are righteous.
I just mean it has no place in this topic Augy! First people are talking about Anarchist revolts against the moderators! Next they'll be asking for the MM update to be released! But if you really want me to... I will you have you moved out of the picture....Wow admin conspiracy.
If you consider enjoying the privileges the country gives to you and then refusing to follow laws that don't benefit you blackmailing, I guess so. You're free to move to another country and apply for citizenship there.
I can not blame people for trying to get out of the draft, because self-preservation is human nature (See what I did there?) but at the same time, that doesn't make it legal or brave. No, brave would be those men burning the papers themselves in public. Sending your wives and girlfriends to do that job might be even considered cowardice.
Just thinking about it... a whole world living in Anarchism would be a bloodbath.
I just mean it has no place in this topic Augy!, but if you really want me to I can ban you :) :P
Posting left-wing terrorists group names are not really helping your case... either.
If you consider enjoying the privileges the country gives to you and then refusing to follow laws that don't benefit you blackmailing, I guess so. You're free to move to another country and apply for citizenship there.
I can not blame people for trying to get out of the draft, because self-preservation is human nature (See what I did there?) but at the same time, that doesn't make it legal or brave. No, brave would be those men burning the papers themselves in public. Sending your wives and girlfriends to do that job might be even considered cowardice.
Those "privileges" you speak off, i consider a human right.
I'm wondering if Putin is just going for a war similar to Vietnam for the Ukranians of just dragging it on until the Ukrainians are sick of fighting. I figured he was just going to have his Russian army declare independence and then ask to be absorbed into Russia.
If you consider enjoying the privileges the country gives to you and then refusing to follow laws that don't benefit you blackmailing, I guess so. You're free to move to another country and apply for citizenship there.
I can not blame people for trying to get out of the draft, because self-preservation is human nature (See what I did there?) but at the same time, that doesn't make it legal or brave. No, brave would be those men burning the papers themselves in public. Sending your wives and girlfriends to do that job might be even considered cowardice.
Those "privileges" you speak off, i consider a human right.Just thinking about it... a whole world living in Anarchism would be a bloodbath.
Anarchism means absence of ruler and abolition of state, not absence of order.
The universe is anarchism, biology is anarchism, physics is anarchism, computer networks are anarchistic, the brain (when functioning well) is a network of collaborating sensory processors and filters. Ecosystems are anarchistic. Only inside the human domain do we find social constructs that are pathological and they all are propagated through a centralisation of will. Anarchy is maximum potential, anything else is atrophy that leads to mass human suffering.
Complexity is beautiful. Nothing is more complex than self-organizing systems, as far I as I know. Anarchism represents that.I just mean it has no place in this topic Augy!, but if you really want me to I can ban you :) :P
Posting left-wing terrorists group names are not really helping your case... either.
Ofcourse it has a place! There's a civil war going on in Ukraine, you can look at this with different angle. - too bad many people look through the lens of nationalism and force themselves to choose sides.
If you consider enjoying the privileges the country gives to you and then refusing to follow laws that don't benefit you blackmailing, I guess so. You're free to move to another country and apply for citizenship there.
I can not blame people for trying to get out of the draft, because self-preservation is human nature (See what I did there?) but at the same time, that doesn't make it legal or brave. No, brave would be those men burning the papers themselves in public. Sending your wives and girlfriends to do that job might be even considered cowardice.
Those "privileges" you speak off, i consider a human right.Just thinking about it... a whole world living in Anarchism would be a bloodbath.
Anarchism means absence of ruler and abolition of state, not absence of order.
The universe is anarchism, biology is anarchism, physics is anarchism, computer networks are anarchistic, the brain (when functioning well) is a network of collaborating sensory processors and filters. Ecosystems are anarchistic. Only inside the human domain do we find social constructs that are pathological and they all are propagated through a centralisation of will. Anarchy is maximum potential, anything else is atrophy that leads to mass human suffering.
Complexity is beautiful. Nothing is more complex than self-organizing systems, as far I as I know. Anarchism represents that.I just mean it has no place in this topic Augy!, but if you really want me to I can ban you :) :P
Posting left-wing terrorists group names are not really helping your case... either.
Ofcourse it has a place! There's a civil war going on in Ukraine, you can look at this with different angle. - too bad many people look through the lens of nationalism and force themselves to choose sides.
Yes yes imagine an anarchism world where everyone obey to the laws of the jungle (the strongest survive only), where a "bully" can do whatever he want to everyone, where there is no state to care for the weak. etc etc (i can write all day for that)
The anarchist world you want is the world before humans. YOU describe animal kingdom.
Please if you love this world go back to stone age in you cave and rest in peace. (with the other anarchists) Even communism and fascism is a part of human evolution (the dark side) but anarchism is a part of animal evolution.
Some say that humans are animals so you can consider yourself an animal.
SpoilerIf you consider enjoying the privileges the country gives to you and then refusing to follow laws that don't benefit you blackmailing, I guess so. You're free to move to another country and apply for citizenship there.
I can not blame people for trying to get out of the draft, because self-preservation is human nature (See what I did there?) but at the same time, that doesn't make it legal or brave. No, brave would be those men burning the papers themselves in public. Sending your wives and girlfriends to do that job might be even considered cowardice.
Those "privileges" you speak off, i consider a human right.Just thinking about it... a whole world living in Anarchism would be a bloodbath.
Anarchism means absence of ruler and abolition of state, not absence of order.
The universe is anarchism, biology is anarchism, physics is anarchism, computer networks are anarchistic, the brain (when functioning well) is a network of collaborating sensory processors and filters. Ecosystems are anarchistic. Only inside the human domain do we find social constructs that are pathological and they all are propagated through a centralisation of will. Anarchy is maximum potential, anything else is atrophy that leads to mass human suffering.
Complexity is beautiful. Nothing is more complex than self-organizing systems, as far I as I know. Anarchism represents that.I just mean it has no place in this topic Augy!, but if you really want me to I can ban you :) :P
Posting left-wing terrorists group names are not really helping your case... either.
Ofcourse it has a place! There's a civil war going on in Ukraine, you can look at this with different angle. - too bad many people look through the lens of nationalism and force themselves to choose sides.
Yes yes imagine an anarchism world where everyone obey to the laws of the jungle (the strongest survive only), where a "bully" can do whatever he want to everyone, where there is no state to care for the weak. etc etc (i can write all day for that)
The anarchist world you want is the world before humans. YOU describe animal kingdom.
Please if you love this world go back to stone age in you cave and rest in peace. (with the other anarchists) Even communism and fascism is a part of human evolution (the dark side) but anarchism is a part of animal evolution.
Some say that humans are animals so you can consider yourself an animal.[close]
You better just shut up right now because what you're saying is totally false. Read a book, please.
back to subject, Karth mentioned energy
"Divisions above, divisions below
Ukrainian society is in profound crisis. Ultimate responsibility for this lies with the competing imperial powers and the competing oligarchic blocs inside the country. These are directly and indirectly responsible for the prominence of far-right groups, both of Ukranian ultra-nationalists, and Russian nationalists: whether this is the inclusion of the Right Sector in the newly formed National Guard, or the likely Russian support for groups such as the ‘Oplot’ who seized the Donetsk city council today.
None of this means that everybody else is simply passive in this. The miners of the Donbass region have suffered from years of corruption, falling living standards, dangerous working conditions, slashed public services, environmental depredations and political repression. But they also have a proud tradition of resistance to draw on.
When protestors in Kiev were attacked by the security forces in December 2013, miners in the Donbass put out a statement that they were prepared to go on all-out strike to bring down Yanukovych: ‘People of Ukraine, in 1989, you supported our mass strike for our rights. Today’s miners stand with you.’
Now the miners are torn. Russia cut its investment in coal by 40% last year, so incorporation into Russia has little to offer; meanwhile, the EU-Ukraine deal will also mean dramatic ‘downsizing’ of the coal industry, in favour of onshore gas exploration by multinationals. This ‘dash for gas’ offers no guarantee of jobs for Ukrainian miners, and offers no solutions for our global climate. The people of the Donbass are on the front line of a conflict with implications for our entire planet. They deserve solidarity."
The sad truth is that the Donbass Industry and mining has been a money-drain since ages. The communist regime didn't care, of course, but you can't really blame the new Ukrainian government for not wishing to just spend a billion dollar every year, solely to keep their industry going. Every government Ukraine has had since the end of the Soviet regime has wished to downsize the coal industry and it's not fair to blame the EU for that.
I'm pretty sure the miners don't give a single fuck about the global climate; their industry is old and highly polluting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBsEkF_GY0E
Biden couldn't be more of a nut.
Crimea is Russia's now. They won it quick and with force. The only other option would be total war with Russia... which ain't going to happen.
Also, at the end... he's an older fellow - shouldn't he know that's not how you have a woman hold your arm? Something with him is bass-ackwards.
Time to repost thisThe gif doesn't work for me, what is it?
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EOrLUt12-OI/U21Dv7MQAWI/AAAAAAAADl4/mQAHbZ_b_FM/s649/Screwthat.gif)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k0t2eUqv3w
Crimea is happy, yay we switched from a newborn democracy to a fascist Dictator! Yay!Russia is a kleptocracy, not a dictatorship.
You have to be a dupe of that Russian guy that got banned...Crimea is happy, yay we switched from a newborn democracy to a fascist Dictator! Yay!Russia is a kleptocracy, not a dictatorship.
Also, don't use the term "fascist" simply because it connotes Hitler, abuse of Human Rights, violence, etc., as it is not applicable to Putin's Russia.
Crimea is happy, yay we switched from a newborn democracy to a fascist Dictator! Yay!Russia is a kleptocracy, not a dictatorship.
Also, don't use the term "fascist" simply because it connotes Hitler, abuse of Human Rights, violence, etc., as it is not applicable to Putin's Russia.
So you are saying that Russia is not violating the human rights?Crimea is happy, yay we switched from a newborn democracy to a fascist Dictator! Yay!Russia is a kleptocracy, not a dictatorship.
Also, don't use the term "fascist" simply because it connotes Hitler, abuse of Human Rights, violence, etc., as it is not applicable to Putin's Russia.
http://www.rferl.org/media/video/ukraine-sniper/26514740.html
Retired Sniper Rejoins Ukrainian Forces
A retired Ukrainian soldier decided to rejoin the army after he saw a television report about troops suffering losses against the separatist insurgency in the country's east. The 58-year-old sniper, who uses the nom de guerre Klym, now fights alongside younger soldiers in the Donbas battalion in the embattled Donetsk region. (RFE/RL's Ukrainian Service)
I wouldn't call anyone that kills people or determines the killing of others a hero.
I wouldn't call anyone that kills people or determines the killing of others a hero.You wouldn't, but a lot of people would, the title of hero is subjective.
I wouldn't call anyone that kills people or determines the killing of others a hero.
but u have on of ur commie heroes as an avatar?
Dayum...you're a really bad troll, bruddah.
Wish him the best of luck.
That was the biggest bullshit I read this week.
Why would we get cheaper gas?
They just managed to get all you guys to root for the Ukrainians while the only people to gain from conflict are the politicians, financiers, land-owners and other money people.
That was the biggest bullshit I read this week.
Can you be specific or are you gonna stick with your ideological gut? i don't see Ukraine as a new potential market to bleed dry so we can have cheaper gas.
No, it doesn't. The NATO can hit everything they would want to hit without setting a single foot on Ukraine. It would be a drain of resources and money to achieve something that does not benefit them, at all, not even in the slightests of ways.
How are you so sure? i mean, you're some pasty white kid in the netherlands that thinks he knows shit. I doubt you are in contact with people over there unlike me, i actually have comrades who have to deal with this stuff over there.
Italic: Attacking people on personal stuff makes, for starters, logically, your entire argument invalid. Vincenzo Supposedly being white and Dutch does not in any prove that he is wrong.
Underlined: Just the fact you have 'comrades' there does not mean that they feed you with the right information or that they themselves are being fed the right information. It would, however only become more credible if that were multiple sources from both sides of the conflict.
All of the information that is being disseminated to us is second hand. We like to get warm and cozy with our constant Vice updates and twitter feeds, buzz feeds whatever but the fact of the matter is we are just eating processed shit.
Italic:[/u]: Unless you have been on the ground in Ukraine, your information is also second-hand and therefore not any bit more credible than that of others.
It's hard to understand this event without knowledge of its on-the-ground characteristics and knowledge of the Ukraine. I have some advantage in that a good friend is Ukrainian, speaks the language, and worked an ex-pat poll station for the disputed election that led to the Orange Revolution.
Above, that, also does not mean that the information of that single Ukrainian friend is entirely credible either. That probably wouldn't be his/her fault, but the information would still be faulty.
Its very important to try and grasp the full spectrum of the factions at play here. While there are nazis and fascists their are also people who hold that Ukraine needs to be independent from both Russia and EU, those people sometimes hold right-wing viewpoints like creating a nation state but i'm aware that its really more complex than "NAZI in Ukraine!! Nazi beat anarchists. Nazis!"
This is a very true statement indeed. However, it does not further support your earlier claims, for example, of your information being more righteous that Vince's
You have the European Union/Nato/World bank - Have their eyes set on Ukraine for the reason of possible American/NATO base installation in Ukraine, positioning it tactically close to Russia. Not to mention the vast network of pipelines going from Russia through the Ukraine.
Neither the EU nor the World bank has any interest in a military intervention in Ukraine. And with that I mean the EU as an institution. A war against Russia, with NATO being in such a shitty condition, except for the US, would only cost millions of lives and it is not at all unlikely that Russia would come at as victorious against the supposed might of the NATO. NATO is mainly defensive anyways. Except for the US.
Russia - Ukraine has always been a satellite state of Russia (well, for as long as Russia has been relevant anyway). Putin would be pretty rustled if he lost his lapdog.
Nationalists - This is a mixed bag. You have the Bourgeoisie Nationalists who hang out with McCain and talk about sanctions while they spoon feed their followers dreams of a white Ukraine, bunch of confused middle class man-children. Then you have the UPA which fought the Nazis and the Soviets in order to establish a sovereign nationalist state of Ukraine. Oh and they killed a bunch of Polish people.
I would be very much delighted if I would see any sources proving the above. If sources will not be named, this would become and empty argument, containing no force nor credibility.
Anarchists and the undead black army led by "the living dead" Nestor Makno -Just kidding, Idk where these cool cats are at, I know Ukraine is very anti-left because they still haven't healed from when the USSR killed like anywhere from 1.5-12 million Ukrainians in the Holodomor.
Again a lack of sources. Just the fact 'you know' is worthless. it does not get you anywhere. Also, being anti-left because communism suppedly slaughtered a lot of people is just plainly ridiculous. It's the same as disliking right-winged entirely because Hitler walked the earth.
Not to mention right now the strongest movements coming out of the Left in Eastern Europe are some bashed gays and pussy riot, not undermining LGBTQ struggle at all but it doesn't keep a dying Ukrainian workers entrails inside him/her.
I am yet to understand the aboe argument.
Holy shitfuck Riddlez is back :D
No by all means, go on. It's been a long time since I've seen someone get their ass kicked on this forum this hard.Cheers
;D
SirYa blew it. gb2reddiy/9gag/fedoracore/swaziland
I've tried but being against the war is not a popular opinion on here.
You had me liking that post untilSame goes for you. Attacking a person itself invalidates an argument when the attack is claimed as a fact, as you have done just now. Just the fact that that one word does not appeal to you, does not make my argument any less true. Objectively.QuoteSirYa blew it. gb2reddiy/9gag/fedoracore/swaziland
Pseudo-sophisticated hipster shit.
And this always turns into a dickwaving competition on "who is right".
Same goes for you. Attacking a person itself invalidates an argument when the attack is claimed as a fact, as you have done just now. Just the fact that that one word does not appeal to you, does not make my argument any less true. Objectively.
You think this is a fuckin joke?QuoteSame goes for you. Attacking a person itself invalidates an argument when the attack is claimed as a fact, as you have done just now. Just the fact that that one word does not appeal to you, does not make my argument any less true. Objectively.
I wholeheartedly agree with your argument, and I stated that in my post. I disagreed with you choice of the word "sir". On top of that I was joking.
How are you so sure? i mean, you're some pasty white kid in the netherlands that thinks he knows shit. I doubt you are in contact with people over there unlike me, i actually have comrades who have to deal with this stuff over there.
So you are saying that Russia is not violating the human rights?Crimea is happy, yay we switched from a newborn democracy to a fascist Dictator! Yay!Russia is a kleptocracy, not a dictatorship.
Also, don't use the term "fascist" simply because it connotes Hitler, abuse of Human Rights, violence, etc., as it is not applicable to Putin's Russia.
Also Kleptocracy is not a form of government ye nub.
But yes Putin is a god damn thief stealing over £130 billion from his people, according to wikipedia.
Can i get your perspective on the situation?
Actually, random thingy happened here in Malaga, Spain today. Wierdo with a CNT-FAI esq flag started beating the crap out of a guy waving around the republican flag.
Saying it makes no Political sense, they probably got into a fight over a girl.
Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1292.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb563%2Fmafre97%2F1497454853-ukraine-parlament-schlaegerei-1u09_zps85d8bfb4.jpg&hash=6de3e1e2450378c16995268c3b02b63d851d71c6) (http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/mafre97/media/1497454853-ukraine-parlament-schlaegerei-1u09_zps85d8bfb4.jpg.html)[close]
Look, there is a perfectly logical reason for why I did that. Can I take back the past? No. Would I want to? No.Actually, random thingy happened here in Malaga, Spain today. Wierdo with a CNT-FAI esq flag started beating the crap out of a guy waving around the republican flag.
Saying it makes no Political sense, they probably got into a fight over a girl.
Which makes about as much sense as this famous article =PSpoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwearethelolocaust.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F02%2F180027_1899358568577_1380033857_32258929_625093_n.jpg&hash=1e875e9b0007e6a387576d201f40a07736acca97)[close]
Look, there is a perfectly logical reason for why I did that. Can I take back the past? No. Would I want to? No.Actually, random thingy happened here in Malaga, Spain today. Wierdo with a CNT-FAI esq flag started beating the crap out of a guy waving around the republican flag.
Saying it makes no Political sense, they probably got into a fight over a girl.
Which makes about as much sense as this famous article =PSpoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwearethelolocaust.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F02%2F180027_1899358568577_1380033857_32258929_625093_n.jpg&hash=1e875e9b0007e6a387576d201f40a07736acca97)[close]
BECAUSE BEHIND THAT HARDENED SHELL OF CHOCOLATE THERES A CREAMY LOVE LAYER OF CARAMELLook, there is a perfectly logical reason for why I did that. Can I take back the past? No. Would I want to? No.Actually, random thingy happened here in Malaga, Spain today. Wierdo with a CNT-FAI esq flag started beating the crap out of a guy waving around the republican flag.
Saying it makes no Political sense, they probably got into a fight over a girl.
Which makes about as much sense as this famous article =PSpoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwearethelolocaust.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F02%2F180027_1899358568577_1380033857_32258929_625093_n.jpg&hash=1e875e9b0007e6a387576d201f40a07736acca97)[close]
But, Howe, Assault a Snickers bar? Why, Howe, WHY?!
I guess you really AREN'T you when you're hungry.Get that communist Muslim food out of here. It's like Naan, right?
So Howe punched a snickers suit. Probably healthier than eating those things.
#MarsBarsMasterRace
- You either pull out anarchy as an argument. This on itself is not too bad, but it does get a wee bit tiresome.
- You have an obvious taste for Ad-Hominems. You tend to insult people whenever they do not share your point of view.
- Your argumentation is seldom logically correct. Nor does it seem only a slight bit aimed in that general direction.
- Anyone who supports someone, and who perchance has the same nationalty as the beforementioned person, is a stupid supporter who only back their own country.
- Whenever someone logically pulls apart your argumentation (usually me), you have an off-topic reply that does not in anyway goes into the aforementioned pulling apart of logic.
Spoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-a8wMG8Dlk[close]
Quote- You either pull out anarchy as an argument. This on itself is not too bad, but it does get a wee bit tiresome.
- You have an obvious taste for Ad-Hominems. You tend to insult people whenever they do not share your point of view.
- Your argumentation is seldom logically correct. Nor does it seem only a slight bit aimed in that general direction.
- Anyone who supports someone, and who perchance has the same nationalty as the beforementioned person, is a stupid supporter who only back their own country.
- Whenever someone logically pulls apart your argumentation (usually me), you have an off-topic reply that does not in anyway goes into the aforementioned pulling apart of logic.
This is pretty true. And even this post Augy responds to by once again putting the blame on the other participants in the discussion aka 'My opinion is unpopular'.
Despicable.
You're being paranoid. Global powers are intimately connected through global economics.
They won't attack each other as they have shared financial interests in eachother's economies. The US, Russia, and China like to flex their power through proxy wars.
If its any consolation, every generation has their "end of the world" scenario. 1930-1940 (Hitler taking over the world), 1950-1980 (Nuclear war), 1990-2013 (economic-environmental collapse). Not that these scenarios couldnt happen, but they didn't and I doubt your fears will come true too.
I'm still waiting for Augy's explanation how the EU/NATO/World Bank wants Ukraine out of strategical reasoning.
#SavetheUkrainians#meh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI-sCr1ARhQ
1. I do see them pushing troops ahead and offering covering fire, I can’t think of too many good reasons to not get everyone out of that open kill zone as fast as possible.
2. 2:40 we see a horrendous mag change. It takes him 10 seconds to get a new mag in his weapon
3. Nice to see they are up to standard with their Adiddas...
Spoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI-sCr1ARhQ[close]
You guys should totally go there as Military Advisors, they could really learn from your Call Of Duty experience!
You guys should totally go there as Military Advisors, they could really learn from your Call Of Duty experience!
You guys sure know how to treat a rifle... if only the same were true for dealing with women :-*
You guys sure know how to treat a rifle... if only the same were true for dealing with women :-*
Haha wow good one! I do believe you just implied that they're VIRGINS! dohoho, damm you sure got them.
u talkin 2 me or augy m8?
You guys sure know how to treat a rifle... if only the same were true for dealing with women :-*
Wut. My post was like 100% sarcasm. Equating knowledge of firearms to lack of experience with women is pants on head retarded.
You guys should totally go there as Military Advisors, they could really learn from your Call Of Duty experience!
It will be interesting to see how Putin will respond when his shadow army is pushed out.
Was actually surprised they didn't take much more accurate fire. I also wonder what other units in the area they were working with because their suppressive fire was lackluster at times.
Was actually surprised they didn't take much more accurate fire. I also wonder what other units in the area they were working with because their suppressive fire was lackluster at times.
They're not dealing with Regulars, here, remember?
A good load of them will never before have held a weapon, they would be all yeehaa and rambo as they come.
Was actually surprised they didn't take much more accurate fire. I also wonder what other units in the area they were working with because their suppressive fire was lackluster at times.
They're not dealing with Regulars, here, remember?
A good load of them will never before have held a weapon, they would be all yeehaa and rambo as they come.
And then World War III.
Again, my M-16 is ready.
You forget, America's Military Command is still made up of guys from an era who think it's their God given duty to smite all Communist states. Also have of the US still thinks Russia is a Communist state.
Or one of the two sides could nuke "Military targets" and that starts the domino chain.
I'm not so sure about that. Obama has a long streak of doing the opposite you expect him to do.
Besides, the launch codes are also given to the JCS. They might decide to go ham.
Most General staff are Vietnam veterans. My father's a Lt. Col and he was a Corporal when Desert Storm went down. That ended before he could get deployed. The idea that American generals are how they are in the movies is just naive and childish. I've met a few generals myself and they're much more like politicians who are just playing the inner political game within the military branches and the Department of Defense.It seems to me like the lower ranks are usually the wackos, pumped with patriotic propaganda before they enter the War. Kind off like that song Hero of War.
Nuclear weapons have immensely high levels of clearance because of the chances of M.A.D.. Not to say it may be something that were to go down during a modern total war scenario, but with the threat being there most things are done in surrogate conflicts as seen during the Cold War.
Usually because the enlisted guys are not the smartest people on the planet. Luckily for us, they aren't in command.
The Ukrainian army has started shelling Donetsk. The Official death count is over 2.000 now which is horrendous enough, though it should be mentioned that more that there are more then 6.000.000 people living in the area, a million of them in Donetsk alone. As terrible as this war for the people is, I don't agree with people who say that Ukraine is doing something 'terrible'. This is what the Separatists, Russia, and many of the civilians themselves who supported the rebels have called upon themselves.
The Russian 'humanitarian' convoy has been refused access and they are apparently now going to enter the Donbass by Separatist controlled borders.
Why would that allow them to send soldiers with it?
They made a new one...
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-100-lies-about-ukraine
Some Russian media fabrications are really retarded..
All I can say is Fox News.any major news outlet really
Spoileris this related or on-topic? Frankly I don't care
http://www.timeslive.co.za/lifestyle/2014/08/13/homophobic-russia-loves-anal-pornhub[close]
SpoilerA Russian MP also recently demanded Apollo be removed from the country's bank notes, for fear that the Greek sun god would turn children gay.[close]
i think when you fear that mythological beings will turn your children gay, facts aren't relevantSpoileris this related or on-topic? Frankly I don't care
http://www.timeslive.co.za/lifestyle/2014/08/13/homophobic-russia-loves-anal-pornhub[close]
A quote from that article:QuoteSpoilerA Russian MP also recently demanded Apollo be removed from the country's bank notes, for fear that the Greek sun god would turn children gay.[close]
Someone clearly does not have any understanding of Greek mythology.
APOLLO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A WOMAN, ASSHOLE
i think when you fear that mythological beings will turn your children gay, facts aren't relevantSpoilerSpoileris this related or on-topic? Frankly I don't care
http://www.timeslive.co.za/lifestyle/2014/08/13/homophobic-russia-loves-anal-pornhub[close]
A quote from that article:QuoteSpoilerA Russian MP also recently demanded Apollo be removed from the country's bank notes, for fear that the Greek sun god would turn children gay.[close]
Someone clearly does not have any understanding of Greek mythology.
APOLLO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A WOMAN, ASSHOLE[close]
i think when you fear that mythological beings will turn your children gay, facts aren't relevantSpoilerSpoileris this related or on-topic? Frankly I don't care
http://www.timeslive.co.za/lifestyle/2014/08/13/homophobic-russia-loves-anal-pornhub[close]
A quote from that article:QuoteSpoilerA Russian MP also recently demanded Apollo be removed from the country's bank notes, for fear that the Greek sun god would turn children gay.[close]
Someone clearly does not have any understanding of Greek mythology.
APOLLO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A WOMAN, ASSHOLE[close]
gays don't need evidence thats why their spreading into the hearts and minds of our feeble, anal sex consumed children.i think when you fear that mythological beings will turn your children gay, facts aren't relevantSpoilerSpoileris this related or on-topic? Frankly I don't care
http://www.timeslive.co.za/lifestyle/2014/08/13/homophobic-russia-loves-anal-pornhub[close]
A quote from that article:QuoteSpoilerA Russian MP also recently demanded Apollo be removed from the country's bank notes, for fear that the Greek sun god would turn children gay.[close]
Someone clearly does not have any understanding of Greek mythology.
APOLLO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A WOMAN, ASSHOLE[close]
Whatever the fuck happened to evidence.
gays don't need evidence thats why their spreading into the hearts and minds of our feeble, anal sex consumed children.i think when you fear that mythological beings will turn your children gay, facts aren't relevantSpoilerSpoileris this related or on-topic? Frankly I don't care
http://www.timeslive.co.za/lifestyle/2014/08/13/homophobic-russia-loves-anal-pornhub[close]
A quote from that article:QuoteSpoilerA Russian MP also recently demanded Apollo be removed from the country's bank notes, for fear that the Greek sun god would turn children gay.[close]
Someone clearly does not have any understanding of Greek mythology.
APOLLO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A WOMAN, ASSHOLE[close]
Whatever the fuck happened to evidence.
Anal Sex, Gays, and this broken quote of ours are evilgays don't need evidence thats why their spreading into the hearts and minds of our feeble, anal sex consumed children.i think when you fear that mythological beings will turn your children gay, facts aren't relevantSpoilerSpoileris this related or on-topic? Frankly I don't care
http://www.timeslive.co.za/lifestyle/2014/08/13/homophobic-russia-loves-anal-pornhub[close]
A quote from that article:QuoteSpoilerA Russian MP also recently demanded Apollo be removed from the country's bank notes, for fear that the Greek sun god would turn children gay.[close]
Someone clearly does not have any understanding of Greek mythology.
APOLLO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A WOMAN, ASSHOLE[close]
Whatever the fuck happened to evidence.
OOh. I see. So basically, they're gays, so they are by definition evil.
#logics101
Scuses for the double post, but who says some of this is isn't western-media propaganda as well?
Just the fact 'we' are the West, doesn't mean our media and governments aren't propagising and lying as well?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/14/russian-military-vehicles-enter-ukraine-aid-convoy-stops-short-border
Oh shiiiit.
Crossing into another's country's terrritory without a good reason is bad. It has been a reason for war troughout history. I don't think you appriciate the severity of the situation.
god damn it Russia, because of you I cant get Russian Ak's anymore. damn you Putin and Obama
http://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/30998.html
So we now have confirmed Ukrainians opened fire and confirmed hitting Russian APC's that violated Ukrainian territory, witnesses by several foreign journalists.
So...what now?
Russian Foreign minister claims the Ukrainians are trying to block the aid convoy - Which is bullshit, because the aid convoy is still in Russia.
I think I'll wait for the inevitable footage upload of burning Russian APCs before I make up my mind. Wait and see I suppose.
Please, Russia back off already so we can end this stupid conflict instead of causing something bigger...Russia has spent quite abit on this already, they need to make a profit somehow.
What is there to steal? ;DKebabs
Hell, that kinda' sums up eastern europe.
What is there to steal? ;DKebabs
Hell, that kinda' sums up eastern europe.
I'll add that Crimea has a military base, also its a key strategical position in Black Sea. The country which rely on army will see this benefits.Where have you been all this time? :o
Everyone in the world is tired. Are you guys ready for the next cold war? The USA is done with real war for now.
We need a new enemy to unite us against, and a pretext of why civil liberties are put on hold. Its okay guys, our masters know whats good for us!
Pretty much why the US is interested in UkraineOne pig to rule them allSpoiler(https://i.imgur.com/lXgG4ve.png)[close]
Prepared for what? stomping my brain in and tasing peoe for voicing their opinions, its always the authorities who fall back on force first and then people wonder why and act all stupid and ignoranr once people fight back.
I got friends in the police and armed forces, they join with the right intentions but nearly all get co-opted in this screwed up mindset that you see perpetuated everywhere.
Speaking of pigs,
(https://i.imgur.com/wUnexcA.jpg)
Which either side you take on this, the EU and US are fuelling it.Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.forexlive.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2FIMG_20140304_2323201.png&hash=22335497fea8e07eb3a20ad8945ed9c413c54443)[close]
Oh shitttttt guys that American who was fighting in the Donbas Battalion was just killed in action. God damn it, that is some shit.
https://news.vice.com/article/the-only-american-fighting-for-ukraine-dies-in-battle?utm_source=vicenewsfb
Spoilerhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=jjDbHbRiGRQ[close]
Spoilerhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=jjDbHbRiGRQ[close]
Wounded men receiving medical care in hospitals in Russia.
This is not by far a political statement, this is upholding your profession as a doctor.
So i heard Canada and Russia might go to war.
So i heard Canada and Russia might go to war.
inb4 Russia invades alaska to get to Canada and we stomp their shit in retaliation. Seriously though, how would Russia even conduct a war with Canada without going through us? We'd have to have some crazy non-aggression pact with Russia to even make that slightly work. Would be funny as hell to see Canada flail about helplessly as Russia steals all their maple syrup tho. :'( Actually no that would be tragic. Now I'm crying.
Spoilerhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=jjDbHbRiGRQ[close]
Wounded men receiving medical care in hospitals in Russia.
This is not by far a political statement, this is upholding your profession as a doctor.
Watch the whole video. It shows just how supportive the Russian government is with the Donetsk rebels - so reports of armored columns entering from Russia isn't hard to believe.
Russian aid convoy has passed into Ukraine. Without permission and without red cross supervision.
So i heard Canada and Russia might go to war.
inb4 Russia invades alaska to get to Canada and we stomp their shit in retaliation. Seriously though, how would Russia even conduct a war with Canada without going through us? We'd have to have some crazy non-aggression pact with Russia to even make that slightly work. Would be funny as hell to see Canada flail about helplessly as Russia steals all their maple syrup tho. :'( Actually no that would be tragic. Now I'm crying.
Russian aid convoy has passed into Ukraine. Without permission and without red cross supervision.Without? I read on Dutch National news today the Red Cross is in charge now.
Russian aid convoy has passed into Ukraine. Without permission and without red cross supervision.Without? I read on Dutch National news today the Red Cross is in charge now.
You sure read a lot of things on Dutch national news. Maybe provide sauce next time?
The Ukrainian government has been dissolved and there are new elections in two weeks. Place your bets now gentlemen. I bet a victory for UDAR.
Let me guess, they were all miraculously "Discharged" right before they decided to join the rebels.
They're probably PMCs. It's how they took Crimea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W57Tjs9BeLw
-snip-Don't worry Poland will save us !
Let's stop pretending that Russia is military better then the NATO.Maybe not military better in the sense of equipment, technologies etc., but in this conflict Russia looks far more better than NATO. Looks like they do not know how to react on Russia aggression, and even if they'd know, they can't do shit about it, it is just too slowly and cowardly for it.
NATO should deploy troops to Ukraine and send a clear message to that weedI doubt they can deploy troops in Baltic states to protect it if it will be needed, not to mention Ukraine, any military help also unlikely happen
Lol the daily mail.
I pray for Ukraine :( Fuck the Russians and I hope my homecountry Poland can them even more support.
I pray for Ukraine :( Fuck the Russians and I hope my homecountry Poland can them even more support.
Additional... What, exactly?
Hi WW3
Spoiler(https://i.imgur.com/smJnMoT.png)[close]
To all sides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwcKwGS7OSQ
Let's stop pretending that Russia is military better then the NATO.
Then can you tell in what place NATO is better than Russia now?Some really evidence, not funny pictures.
NATO together is enough to force Russia down. The average soldier from an EU nation is better trained than a Russian one. Same with the Americans.
Turks can also bombard Russia to shit, so that's a plus.
NATO together is enough to force Russia down.Yes, but it will be very hard to get all members to the same decision. Especially to force Russia down, or even to real answer for their actions, because someone has dependency from their gas, someone still needs to sell Mistral ships, someone just do not want to anger them. So there will be enough one country to say no for doing something, like deploy bases in Eastern Europe states, or start Ukraine-NATO partnership and it can never happen.
The average soldier from an EU nation is better trained than a Russian one. Same with the Americans.But he and NATO forces in general more limited in actions by international law, treaties, agreements etc., and can't afford things like Russia do - illegal supplies of weapon, send forces without insignia to other country, bombard it etc. and then say "it wasn't us" etc.
NATO together is enough to force Russia down. The average soldier from an EU nation is better trained than a Russian one. Same with the Americans.
Turks can also bombard Russia to shit, so that's a plus.
Russia shall unite all of Africa and invade Europe from Spain. At the same time they will form a united Arabic state that will crush Israel and then invade Turkey. From that point they will secure an alliance with China who will seize India, Japan, and Southeast Asia. Then they shall rally all South and Central American nations against the U.S. leading to massive battles at the Rio Grande. And while all this happens, Russia will be bogged down in Poland and the Baltic, figuring out how to hurrah mass Soviet charge.
Russia stronk
You mean master plan 2k14NATO together is enough to force Russia down. The average soldier from an EU nation is better trained than a Russian one. Same with the Americans.
Turks can also bombard Russia to shit, so that's a plus.
Russia shall unite all of Africa and invade Europe from Spain. At the same time they will form a united Arabic state that will crush Israel and then invade Turkey. From that point they will secure an alliance with China who will seize India, Japan, and Southeast Asia. Then they shall rally all South and Central American nations against the U.S. leading to massive battles at the Rio Grande. And while all this happens, Russia will be bogged down in Poland and the Baltic, figuring out how to hurrah mass Soviet charge.
Russia stronk
Nice fairy tales.
Article 5;
"The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, [...] , will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area."
Article 6 then species what is considered an attack;
"For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
- on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France, on the territory of or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
- on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer."
For the full thing: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Treaty
Well let's lock the topic and await their invasion of Rusia.
LuxembouRussia I tell you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrSb8G57cI
I find this dispatch funny, first it's very negative-Ukrainian then you find out the Russians are the ones who are doing all the damage in that area. The cowardly Rebels need there mother to come and help them. They are the ones with the tanks after all... Those Ukrainian Soldiers there are heroes, i wish them the best of luck with this battle against Russia.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trbimg.com%2Fimg-53138bbc%2Fturbine%2Fla-fg-wn-ukrainian-president-russia-ultimatum-crimea-20140302&hash=732a5346247dc4fe2333cf8236592c04b7809d72)
Well let's lock the topic and await their invasion of Rusia.
LuxembouRussia I tell you
Is posting more than 3 lines of text toxic to you?
I sincerely doubt war will start BECAUSE of Ukraine joining NATO. If anything it does the opposite.
Both of you fuck off and take the dick-measuring else-where.
I sincerely doubt war will start BECAUSE of Ukraine joining NATO. If anything it does the opposite.
Russian troops on Ukraine soil.
Ukraine joins the NATO, there are Russian troops on NATO ally soil.
Bound by treaty to eliminate the threat.
Both of you fuck off and take the dick-measuring else-where.
No. Watch the attitude.
Sorry for off-topic. They're asking for it.
SpoilerI sincerely doubt war will start BECAUSE of Ukraine joining NATO. If anything it does the opposite.
Russian troops on Ukraine soil.
Ukraine joins the NATO, there are Russian troops on NATO ally soil.
Bound by treaty to eliminate the threat.
Only if War is officially declared by one of the two parties, does NATO get involved.Both of you fuck off and take the dick-measuring else-where.
No. Watch the attitude.
Sorry for off-topic. They're asking for it.
Asking for it isn't a proper reason Dekkers. Come on mate you're more mature than that.[close]
I sincerely doubt war will start BECAUSE of Ukraine joining NATO. If anything it does the opposite.
Russian troops on Ukraine soil.
Ukraine joins the NATO, there are Russian troops on NATO ally soil.
Bound by treaty to eliminate the threat.
I'd prefer I slap on the wrist to a full-on warn...
Also you sure that's a Cossack Edward?
I sincerely doubt war will start BECAUSE of Ukraine joining NATO. If anything it does the opposite.
Russian troops on Ukraine soil.
Ukraine joins the NATO, there are Russian troops on NATO ally soil.
Bound by treaty to eliminate the threat.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you are aware of the requirements for joining the NATO. Peace, Healthy relations with your neighbors and a stable situation (so no separatist movements) are amongst them. That's why Georgia can't join the NATO.
Ear porn. <3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ca6_1409851337
At the beginning. "All your weapunz r belong 2 uz"
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r_Nf2VK5_4[/youtube]
Don't worry I read BBC news
#BBCNews4Lyfe
At the beginning. "All your weapunz r belong 2 uz"
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r_Nf2VK5_4[/youtube]
I find it silly how people wanting to defend their country nowdays are immediately labled members of the German Workers party.We should all suppport the globalisation of our socities in order to overthrow the bourgeuois governments that are oppressing the honest worker. Anyone who claims the opposite is a Nazi. (Typical Socialist defense)
Mmhm. Yeah. Glory to...Luxembourgh.
Mmhm. Yeah. Glory to North Cyprus.Clever joke there Invs. What does this have to do with Ukraine? Or is this just another jab at me?
These Ukrainian soldiers need some serious morale boost to fight.
Another jab? I don't remember jabbing before.So you are provoking huh?. Reported aahahahhahahahaha :P :P
I just wanted to see the reaction
Sounds like they need some freedom. ;)*coughs* USA, anyone?
War with Russia imminent.Why cant I hashtag!!!!!!! Feckin' keyboard :)
War with Russia imminent.
*coughs* USA, anyone?Another jab? I don't remember jabbing before.So you are provoking huh?. Reported aahahahhahahahaha :P :P
I just wanted to see the reaction
*coughs* USA, anyone?Another jab? I don't remember jabbing before.So you are provoking huh?. Reported aahahahhahahahaha :P :P
I just wanted to see the reaction
Riddlez reported you, Riddlez reported you! Snitches get stitches!
I don't understand why you would. Stop acting like a mod maybe m8.
Just curious, I don't think KL4's the kind of guy who'd take something like that seriously. So I'd imagine it was an outside factor.What happened?
I don't understand why you would. Stop acting like a mod maybe m8.You do realize Vincenzo regularly browses the thread and does administrate the forums when he see's wrong doing...
I don't understand why you would. Stop acting like a mod maybe m8.You do realize Vincenzo regularly browses the thread and does administrate the forums when he see's wrong doing...
Me and you haz the rolex.Lol it's not the first time. I actually read the last few pages, and, well, if you think that I reported you then it's just not logical. Why would someone with 60 points already snitch someone else out? Probably a moderator, or some other random dude - between me posting and seeing the warning points added to my account I can barely manage to refresh the page. Then, ofc, I am already on the list for quite a while.. :'(
The South Will Rise Again.ClearlyInvis beginning his war of independance. ;)
I know it wasn't you but I don't understand how my posting of North Cyprus counted as an insult towards you. Thats like saying The South Will Rise Again is an insult to a Northern American.As always, I was exaggerating, to the point of trolling. I'm not even Cypriot, or ever been there, it's just a kewl picture I found online at 3:40 in the morning.
The South Will Rise Again.ClearlyInvis beginning his war of independance. ;)
I know it wasn't you but I don't understand how my posting of North Cyprus counted as an insult towards you. Thats like saying The South Will Rise Again is an insult to a Northern American.As always, I was exaggerating, to the point of trolling. I'm not even Cypriot, or ever been there, it's just a kewl picture I found online at 3:40 in the morning.
Lol ISIS said they would destroy Russia, so yea I think the entire world will focus on ISIS now. Glad there is this ceasefire and the separatists released the Ukranian prisoners, one step forwardLol, a flight from LHR to Greece (Athens) with a stop in Kiev costs about £200 less per passenger (even though the distance flown is far greater) than one that stops in Zurich for the first leg. My parents are flying back to Greece for some urgent business, and it seemed pretty reasonable to them. Both the flights are British Airways. Wonder why that is - could it be the invisible hand of supply and demand manipulating prices again? :P nerd jok3z fml
Lol ISIS said they would destroy Russia, so yea I think the entire world will focus on ISIS now. Glad there is this ceasefire and the separatists released the Ukranian prisoners, one step forwardCeasefire is over already.
Lol ISIS said they would destroy Russia, so yea I think the entire world will focus on ISIS now. Glad there is this ceasefire and the separatists released the Ukranian prisoners, one step forwardCeasefire is over already.
Weird.. cause they are postponing future sanctions on Russia from what it seems :o still I doubt it will escalate further
No, it isn't canceled yet, although it was violated several times already.Lol ISIS said they would destroy Russia, so yea I think the entire world will focus on ISIS now. Glad there is this ceasefire and the separatists released the Ukranian prisoners, one step forwardCeasefire is over already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw_i74BFJ_UNice
The Ukranian president said Russian troops are withdrawing from Ukraine, looks like it's winding down.Because the Ukrainians never lie...
ISIS has the attention, while Putin is increasing relations with China and preparing counter sanctions..
ISIS has the attention, while Putin is increasing relations with China and preparing counter sanctions..
And thing you know-ISIS and Russia are allies.
ISIS has the attention, while Putin is increasing relations with China and preparing counter sanctions..
And thing you know-ISIS and Russia are allies.
Just a humorous guess, don't take it to seriously.ISIS has the attention, while Putin is increasing relations with China and preparing counter sanctions..
And thing you know-ISIS and Russia are allies.
Don't state opinions as facts.
Just the fact the Russia is protective of the Middle-East doesn't mean ISIS and Russia are allies.
Do you even logic?
Just a humorous guess, don't take it to seriously.ISIS has the attention, while Putin is increasing relations with China and preparing counter sanctions..
And thing you know-ISIS and Russia are allies.
Don't state opinions as facts.
Just the fact the Russia is protective of the Middle-East doesn't mean ISIS and Russia are allies.
Do you even logic?
Hur Hur Hur.Just a humorous guess, don't take it to seriously.ISIS has the attention, while Putin is increasing relations with China and preparing counter sanctions..
And thing you know-ISIS and Russia are allies.
Don't state opinions as facts.
Just the fact the Russia is protective of the Middle-East doesn't mean ISIS and Russia are allies.
Do you even logic?
Oh...
*laugh
ISIS has the attention, while Putin is increasing relations with China and preparing counter sanctions..
And thing you know-ISIS and Russia are allies.
Don't state opinions as facts.
Just the fact the Russia is protective of the Middle-East doesn't mean ISIS and Russia are allies.
Do you even logic?
ISIS has the attention, while Putin is increasing relations with China and preparing counter sanctions..
And thing you know-ISIS and Russia are allies.
Don't state opinions as facts.
Just the fact the Russia is protective of the Middle-East doesn't mean ISIS and Russia are allies.
Do you even logic?
You weren't supposed to take him seriously when he posted vice news.
ISIS has the attention, while Putin is increasing relations with China and preparing counter sanctions..
And thing you know-ISIS and Russia are allies.
Don't state opinions as facts.
Just the fact the Russia is protective of the Middle-East doesn't mean ISIS and Russia are allies.
Do you even logic?
You weren't supposed to take him seriously when he posted vice news.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flistsnshit.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F01%2Fleninapplememe.jpg&hash=2c04e4a6a8454fb06e25302e2e69ba1f36293959)Yes
Let's get back to posting relevant stuff.This must be the hardest part of your job.
Its still a clusterfuck, there are National Socialists on either side of this conflict.
Its still a clusterfuck, there are National Socialists on either side of this conflict.LOL. Please link to National Socialists that are Pro Russian.
Contradiction.
Sports Ukrainian flag in support of the pro maidan protests. Due to misguided beliefs of freedom and independence.
Doesn't support the ultimate freedom of the FSE people to do as they like with their threads.
I am just at a point of entirely skipping Augy's posts.
Olafson, Putin keeps implying that the current Ukrainian government got into power illegally and/or with a coup so that it doesn't represent its people. You won't find any Russian media saying how Svoboda actually got voted into the parliament.
Putin's logic: They did bad shit, so we can do bad shit without our shit being bad.swarring
They still have Lenin in his mausoleum. They still have red square. They still don't deny their past.
I claim every region that was german in 1400 to be german now:Fuck it, I claim the Mongol Empire! :PSpoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fa%2Fa0%2FHRR_1400.png&hash=d6ae75dd79d9e04b6280093bffcc120949ab9916)[close]
The Russians gave up any claim to land when they decided to rebel against their Tsar.
The Russians gave up any claim to land when they decided to rebel against their Tsar.
Most of the lands they occupied were from before the Tsardom. It's an ethnic claim. It has nothing to do with the government.
Your argument is invalid. They have a Tsar. His name is Putin.
(https://lapalmyredunord.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/czar-putin.jpg)
The Russians gave up any claim to land when they decided to rebel against their Tsar.
Most of the lands they occupied were from before the Tsardom. It's an ethnic claim. It has nothing to do with the government.
Your argument is invalid. They have a Tsar. His name is Putin.
(https://lapalmyredunord.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/czar-putin.jpg)
It's Emperor, please.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31585198/DONT_MOVE/d55fda3c0c1fda57925a2d230eb.jpg)
Breaking news the U.S is exporting AIDS in the region.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2013%2F11%2F13%2F1384370327694%2Fus-military-aid-effort-ta-008.jpg&hash=6c5fd13ccf868c183f4b231a27e4e48068e8e801)
I believe that we should respect the right of people to self-determination. If western Ukrainians want to be ruled by their "chocolate king" and his Svoboda and Right Sector lackeys, so be it. If the mostly Russian-speaking inhabitants of Donbass want their independance, this is their right too. If the right of people to self-determination had been respected from the very beginning, Ukraine could have remained a united country. Unfortunately, national hatred and stupidity led to this kind of situation (including of course Yanukovych's own stupidity).
I believe that we should respect the right of people to self-determination. If western Ukrainians want to be ruled by their "chocolate king" and his Svoboda and Right Sector lackeys, so be it. If the mostly Russian-speaking inhabitants of Donbass want their independance, this is their right too. If the right of people to self-determination had been respected from the very beginning, Ukraine could have remained a united country. Unfortunately, national hatred and stupidity led to this kind of situation (including of course Yanukovych's own stupidity).
It's funny that you consider a fundamental principle such as the right of people to self-determination "hippie", but not the usual western jingle about "human rights", which you are using there too, except it's supposedly directed against pro-western positions. The question of self-determination is certainly much more important since this war didn't start because of a lack of respect for "human rights", but rather because of an infrigement of basic democratic principles.
If my "hippie" right of people to self-determination was respected by the US and western-European governments, they would:
1. Recognize that Crimea is part of Russia.
2. Recognize the right of the Donbass population to hold a referendum like Scotland did a few days ago.
Yet they don't.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20131221125827%2Fmapgame%2Fimages%2Fc%2Fc0%2FMap_of_Lithuania_and_Poland_c._1400.jpg&hash=c4d4526a9ed6ced96d6245c0c1a93a30bf74106d)
Lithuania wants Ukraine back.D:<
Spoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjC6UhAM16Y[close]
Thats all well and all but their powers of self-determination ends once they have pointed at somebody and say, “lead us".
Until the next election, their opinions no longer matter.
The right of people to self-determination isn't a question of morale, it's a political principle (or position) and the best way to solve the national question in general. For this very reason we should all support the right to self-determination. Of course both sides can argue that they respect this right, but both don't, and the western side especially doesn't.
The right to self-determination is the right to decide for your own people, and this imply that you can choose separation, autonomy, or something different. The right to self-determination doesn't necessarily mean independance, it means freedom to decide. So as long as you refuse the right of a population to hold a free referendum on its future, with options such as autonomy and independance, or even union, this right isn't respected. A population can't refuse self-determination. They can refuse independance, but they can't refuse self-determination.
Had the eastern Ukrainians been given the freedom to vote at the very beginning of this conflict, the overwhelming majority would have refused secession and probably chosen more autonomy. All opinion polls proved that. Ukraine would have remained united this way. But since the Kievan so-called nationalists refused any kind of compromise, and tried to crush the rebellion with the most violent means, and since they made this crackdown on Russian language, they lost everything. They lost Crimea, and important cities in the East, and above all their national pride. What a pity for a "nationalist"!
Of course imperialist interests in the West, and also in the East, don't care about the right of people to self-determination (except when it's in their interest). But I don't own a coal mine or a pipeline, I'm a simple citizen as probably most people on this forum. So when I defend the right of people to self-determination, it's not a question of morale, it's in my interest, and in the interest of the overwhelming majority of the population of Ukraine.
It's probably not in the interest of the Chocolate King indeed. It's not even in the interest of Russian oligarchs. I understand perfectly why they go at war, but I'm not playing a wargame with them. Also note that in the USSR geopolitics as an academic discipline were forbidden and considered fascist. That's not what you meant of course, but that's probably what the duginists mean when they talk about geopolitics.
It's true haha ;D(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20131221125827%2Fmapgame%2Fimages%2Fc%2Fc0%2FMap_of_Lithuania_and_Poland_c._1400.jpg&hash=c4d4526a9ed6ced96d6245c0c1a93a30bf74106d)
Lithuania wants Ukraine back.D:<
I love you. Nice post.
There is many causes to this conflict and what you call geopolitics are only a part of it. Anyway I'm not a state and I don't have an army, so why should I care about that? My interest and the interest of the Ukrainian and even Russian populationp is the only thing that matter for me. The rest is quite meaningless. A conflict can have many solutions, including internal solutions. So it's not enough and it's wrong to say that the solution lies in geopolitics. The Ukrainian people, and everyone of us with our limited means, also determine the outcome of this war.
I would say that Russia didn't had much choice. For Russia it's just unacceptable that NATO advances towards Russian borders. They already have Poland and the Baltic States and they are building their missile shield in Europe. So this attack on Russian interests from western powers demanded a strong answer, and that's what Putin did. And it worked quite well, because they routed the Ukrainian "army" and their fascist lackeys although all western media were repeating that the "anti-terrorist operation" wouldn't last more than a few days.
You might have a slight impact in a democratic country by doing protests such as during the war in Vietnam.
At the moment the only people who have a strong impact on the war while maintaining to ability to change the situation dramatically more then anyone else are the people of Ukraine but as-long as a majority of the country supports the Kiev government then well... Good luck.I guess you mean the western Ukrainians, inhabitants of Lviv and regions like that. Because we don't know what the majority of Ukrainians think exactly. And we can't even be sure about the population of the West. It's certain that a lot of them support Kiev, but how much exactly? We don't know. And they are probably too much affraid of the fascists to protest.
The effects of geography on international relations are very important.What do you mean by "geography" exactly? The fact that Ukraine is between Germany and Russia? That doesn't look much like a scientifical explanation. Economics and politics are sufficient to explain the main lines of international relations. Geography, however, won't explain the difference between Putin and Kasparov, Yanukovyich and the Chocolate King. If you mean that we should analyse the situation as we would do with a battlefield map, you are right. But that's not what I would call geography.
QuoteYou might have a slight impact in a democratic country by doing protests such as during the war in Vietnam.QuoteAt the moment the only people who have a strong impact on the war while maintaining to ability to change the situation dramatically more then anyone else are the people of Ukraine but as-long as a majority of the country supports the Kiev government then well... Good luck.I guess you mean the western Ukrainians, inhabitants of Lviv and regions like that. Because we don't know what the majority of Ukrainians think exactly. And we can't even be sure about the population of the West. It's certain that a lot of them support Kiev, but how much exactly? We don't know. And they are probably too much affraid of the fascists to protest.
Fascists? Youjust took a wrong turn there, mate. Please explain how the Ukrainian government is fascist.QuoteThe effects of geography on international relations are very important.What do you mean by "geography" exactly? The fact that Ukraine is between Germany and Russia? That doesn't look much like a scientifical explanation. Economics and politics are sufficient to explain the main lines of international relations. Geography, however, won't explain the difference between Putin and Kasparov, Yanukovyich and the Chocolate King. If you mean that we should analyse the situation as we would do with a battlefield map, you are right. But that's not what I would call geography.
Geography is much more then looking at the maps. I believe in encompasses physical location, size, climate, demography, natural resources, and technological advances of the state.
It kinda does.
Geography is much more then looking at the maps. I believe in encompasses physical location, size, climate, demography, natural resources, and technological advances of the state.
yeah, of course it is more than map=reading, that doesn't make it an exact science though.
"Soft" science is the opposite of "Hard" science, or exact science. For example the fact that 1+1=2 is an exact knowledge obtained from a hard science, mathematics. However human organization is much more complex, and to study it you need to build theories from observation, praxis and reflexion. Those theories can be scientific, however they are "soft" because they are less accurate, much harder to modelize, and it's much easier to criticize it on the basic of a different paradigm or of different data or observation. Geography is actually more like an academic discipline than a "science". I would rather say that there is different geographic sciences, such as human geography and soil geography. The latter is probably "harder" than the former.History must be one vairy soft science, if you ask me :D
If you want to analyse international relations on a geographical basis, you will use "geostrategy" as opposed to "geopolitics". Although when people speak about geopolitics, they usually mean geostrategy.
Geography is much more then looking at the maps. I believe in encompasses physical location, size, climate, demography, natural resources, and technological advances of the state.
yeah, of course it is more than map=reading, that doesn't make it an exact science though.
I never even mentioned anything about it being a science or not...
Geography is much more then looking at the maps. I believe in encompasses physical location, size, climate, demography, natural resources, and technological advances of the state.
yeah, of course it is more than map=reading, that doesn't make it an exact science though.
I never even mentioned anything about it being a science or not...
No, but you suggested it by suggesting that I appeared to be under the impression that geopraphy was just map-reading.
"Soft" science is the opposite of "Hard" science, or exact science. For example 1+1=2 is an exact knowledge obtained from a hard science, mathematics. However human organization is much more complex, and to study it you need to build theories from observation, praxis and reflexion. Those theories can be scientific, however they are "soft" because they are less accurate, much harder to modelize, and it's much easier to criticize it on the basic of a different paradigm or of different data or observation. Geography is actually more like an academic discipline than a "science". I would rather say that there is different geographic sciences, such as human geography and soil geography. The latter is probably "harder" than the former.
If you want to analyse international relations on a geographical basis, you will use "geostrategy" as opposed to "geopolitics". Although when people speak about geopolitics, they usually mean geostrategy.
Geopolitics is simply analyzing the correlations between the geographical conditions and the evolution of a conflict.That's rather what I would call geostrategy, because the historical basis of geopolitics is the idea that the organization and the behavior of a society is above all determined by the geographical environment, and that a country should follow its geographically determined "interests", and build its international policies on its geographical environment. You will find that in the works of the main geopolitical theoreticians (Ratzel, Mahan, Mackinder, Haushofer...). And it's opposed to strategy in general, because a strategy implies political objectives, and those objectives are politicially and ideologically determined. They are not determined by any geographical environement. Thus it's not surprising to see that those who still use this idea of geopolitics either confuse geopolitics and geostrategy or are far-right politicians such as Alexandr Dugin, trying to justify their nationalist/imperialist policies with non-scientific theories. Although you might read on Wikipedia that geostrategy is a derivative of geopolitics, this is totally wrong since many scholars clearly oppose geostrategy to geopolitics.
It Doesn't mean to make politics based off geography.
Why are you guys arguing about something that could be easily googled in five seconds? Are you this keen on trying to appear intelligent? Fuck.
Because we disagree with Google.
Because we disagree with Google.Impossible!
QuoteGeopolitics is simply analyzing the correlations between the geographical conditions and the evolution of a conflict.That's rather what I would call geostrategy, because the historical basis of geopolitics is the idea that the organization and the behavior of a society is above all determined by the geographical environment, and that a country should follow its geographically determined "interests", and build its international policies on its geographical environment. You will find that in the works of the main geopolitical theoreticians (Ratzel, Mahan, Mackinder, Haushofer...). And it's opposed to strategy in general, because a strategy implies political objectives, and those objectives are politicially and ideologically determined. They are not determined by any geographical environement. Thus it's not surprising to see that those who still use this idea of geopolitics either confuse geopolitics and geostrategy or are far-right politicians such as Alexandr Dugin, trying to justify their nationalist/imperialist policies with non-scientific theories. Although you might read on Wikipedia that geostrategy is a derivative of geopolitics, this is totally wrong since many scholars clearly oppose geostrategy to geopolitics.
It Doesn't mean to make politics based off geography.
You can debate the definition, but Geopolitics is a historical academic discipline, plus the word itself has a strong meaning since it combines politics and geography. So you can't give whatever definition you want. I have to stress that strategy isn't tactics, it includes politics. So saying that geostrategy is only a part of geopolitics is nonsense in itself.
Let's get back to Ukraine.
Ukraine is not a real nation, so it's fair game for it to be saved and liberated.
This is what I'm gathering from the facts on this thread.
Ukraine is a new nation, so it's fair game to be raped and pillaged.
This is what I'm gathering for the opinions on this thread.
With Yanukovych having just accused the revolution of being fascistic and the opposition of planning a coup I feel that it isn't far off complete civil war now, although what stance the Ukrainian Armed Forces would take is beyond me. Regardless, the situation needs to be addressed.
That aside, some of the videos that have come out of Ukraine are disgusting; the incident with the medical staff dying from sniper rifles, for example. I wonder if we'll see a war crimes tribunal set up in the aftermath of all this.
EDIT; the protestors have begun to field fire mages.
(https://i.imgur.com/bdoyF5v.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/account/favorites/kmQDv
To cheer up your day.
https://i.imgur.com/account/favorites/kmQDv
To cheer up your day.
It's asking me to log in or sign up.
Fcuk dat gief me an image link
https://i.imgur.com/account/favorites/kmQDv
To cheer up your day.
It's asking me to log in or sign up.
Fcuk dat gief me an image link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQEocdLSgZ8 Fixed.
Wow dude, way to steal pictures from the beginning of the thread ::)
The world has forgotten about Ukraine :( Damn it ISIS.
Lol Russia has a hstory of exploiting these crises - look at the 6 Day War with Georgia in 2008, which started on the eve of the Opening Ceremony of the Beijing OlympicsThe world has forgotten about Ukraine :( Damn it ISIS.
That seems to advantage Russia, I like it.
Lol Russia has a hstory of exploiting these crises - look at the 6 Day War with Georgia in 2008, which started on the eve of the Opening Ceremony of the Beijing OlympicsThe world has forgotten about Ukraine :( Damn it ISIS.
That seems to advantage Russia, I like it.
The 6 day war was in the middle east involving Israel and Arab states...Fuck the ME it confooze me - the 6 day one was like 1973 with the OAPEC crisis after it right? So many warz ... :( only two countries recognise South Ossetia's independence hahaha fail state
The South Ossetia war was the 5 day war.
South Ossetia stronk
One of our regimental members has been fighting for the past 6 months or so down there. We hadn't heard from him in 3 months and already thought the worst but today he came on TS, has a short leave from the front atm.
The ceasefire was going well? Oh please. Fighting continued around Mariupol and Donetsk and they started using artillery and tanks again weeks ago. Russia never stopped their armored columns. Nothing changed, except the media-attention it got.Russia wasn't using armoured columns, they were sneaking the occasional tank through. There's an important difference, which is that one is Russia trying to stay low, and the other is Russia purposefully pushing yet more boundaries to see if anyone has the balls to call them out on it. It's like a game of Chicken, except that the cost of a fuck-up is another World War.
One of our regimental members has been fighting for the past 6 months or so down there. We hadn't heard from him in 3 months and already thought the worst but today he came on TS, has a short leave from the front atm.
The ceasefire was going well? Oh please. Fighting continued around Mariupol and Donetsk and they started using artillery and tanks again weeks ago. Russia never stopped their armored columns. Nothing changed, except the media-attention it got.Russia wasn't using armoured columns, they were sneaking the occasional tank through. There's an important difference, which is that one is Russia trying to stay low, and the other is Russia purposefully pushing yet more boundaries to see if anyone has the balls to call them out on it. It's like a game of Chicken, except that the cost of a fuck-up is another World War.
That'd depend, since the actual groundforce of Russia isn't even that good and as big as Russia would like us to think...No idea where you got that from, Russia has the second most powerful military in the world, and it's right next door to Russia, whereas the US would have to mobilise all it's troops half way around the world to match it, in conditions which they aren't used to but Russia are. If the US attacked Russia, they'd get their arse handed to them. The reverse is also true of course, but in this situation we're talking about Russian deployments tens of kilometres from their border.
That'd depend, since the actual groundforce of Russia isn't even that good and as big as Russia would like us to think...No idea where you got that from, Russia has the second most powerful military in the world
That'd depend, since the actual groundforce of Russia isn't even that good and as big as Russia would like us to think...No idea where you got that from, Russia has the second most powerful military in the world
Nah, US intel thought the same about the USSR's army, but now in hindsight we know how weak it really was outside the parade ground and minor tasks.
The last war Russia was in Georgia, which albeit quick, showed that Russia wouldn't be up for the taskif continually faced with resistance. Before that we had the disastrous wars in Chechnya where Russia had to resort to only using missiles and bombs because their soldiers were practically worthless when attacking Chechen positions.
Secrecy makes it unknown, humans fear the unknown.
That'd depend, since the actual groundforce of Russia isn't even that good and as big as Russia would like us to think...No idea where you got that from, Russia has the second most powerful military in the world, and it's right next door to Russia, whereas the US would have to mobilise all it's troops half way around the world to match it, in conditions which they aren't used to but Russia are. If the US attacked Russia, they'd get their arse handed to them. The reverse is also true of course, but in this situation we're talking about Russian deployments tens of kilometres from their border.
He's fighting for the Ukrainian Army. I think National Guard if I recall that correctly.One of our regimental members has been fighting for the past 6 months or so down there. We hadn't heard from him in 3 months and already thought the worst but today he came on TS, has a short leave from the front atm.
He fights for Ukraine or Russia?
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk%2Fi%2Flove-putin-and-fuck-ukraine.png&hash=7ba0286f0f945fcbea45a7941bc8be89d98bc820)+1
If it weren't for the ceasefire, I'd say Nato should roll in there and fuck Russia over, then get "lost" like Russia did in Crimea and accidentally march into Moscow.Lol, NATO sucks, it does not want, can not, so will not do anything here. All feared Russia and feared go in to war with it, so will try to solve it by other ways to the very end.
He's fighting for the Ukrainian Army. I think National Guard if I recall that correctly.One of our regimental members has been fighting for the past 6 months or so down there. We hadn't heard from him in 3 months and already thought the worst but today he came on TS, has a short leave from the front atm.
He fights for Ukraine or Russia?
NATO doesn't fear Russia. It fears war, because war, as no-one will disagree, sucks.Wars are good for selling weapons and plundering other countries. Ask British oil companies.
The Iraq war is hardly comparable with the Russian-Ukrainian war.
NATO doesn't fear Russia. It fears war, because war, as no-one will disagree, sucks.It fears war with Russia. And Putin knows that, so he can escalate situation as much as he needs without any serious answer on this, like:
The Iraq war is hardly comparable with the Russian-Ukrainian war.How is it hardly comparable? The former was a war for oil, the latter is a war for gas. Even if there is more than that in this war, it's probably the bulk of the problem.
Uhm. No. According to you, oil is what got the West into Iraq, but getting into Ukraine and starting a war won't get us gas.It's not only according to me but also according to the Guardian which is a most respected newspaper, and I agree with the journalist's analysis, and with this one too:
That's pretty much the tip of the iceberg though. Ukraine has been in nearly a year of inner conflict and the west has benefited in no way from it.
Since when is The Guardian a most respected newspaper?
That article proves nothing. The only conclusion it makes is that both Russia and the USA have interest in Ukraine. Well no shit. How exactly does that explain separatist movements, the annexation of Crimea and prolonged fighting?
Since when is The Guardian a most respected newspaper?
That article proves nothing. The only conclusion it makes is that both Russia and the USA have interest in Ukraine. Well no shit. How exactly does that explain separatist movements, the annexation of Crimea and prolonged fighting?
It doesn't. Except when the seperatists suddenly have a very American way of fighting: for resources.
Anyways, A week or two/three, The Netherlands have decided to send supplies to Ukraine (Sleeping bags, generators, etc) to get the Ukrainian army through the Winter. Any other country doing this? And what do you think of this?
Putin fears war just as much. He wants to achieve as much as he can without firing a shot - Which is why war might actually be necessary.I'd not say as much, at least he looks more prepared to this. And while maybe really only a minority actually support war, in case if it will goes that way, their propaganda is strong enough to convince majority that it was "necessary"(like with sanctions and counter-sanctions - while russians suffers from it, majority support or at least justify it, because believes that Europe/USA suffers much more than they(although maybe its true, i do not know :)))
The problem is, of course, that NATO memberstates are democracies, and democracies always try to avoid war because it's near impossible to convince 'the people' its justified when power and media are so polarized. A state that is in firm control of power and imposes heavy bans on free media (Like Russia), can easily lie to its citizens. That being said, while many support Putin and defending Russian minorities in other countries, only a minority actually support war.
Russia is a nuclear power. A war with NATO is almost impossible. A full war against Ukraine is very unlikely, and even a limited war (with a limited aim such as sizing Mariupol) is hard to imagine. However they could send a few special units to help the rebels, like NATO countries did in Libya, send weapons and train troops on their own territory.
Just because two opposing forces have both nuclear powers, doesn't mean they can't have a war between them.Did I said they can't? No. I said "almost impossible". And indeed it is, because they are not stupid enough to destroy the whole world for a pipeline.
Man, not to me... No SERIOUSLY? Wake up.
Even the BBC aknowledges it.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16573516
British efforts to help topple Colonel Gaddafi were not limited to air strikes. On the ground - and on the quiet - special forces soldiers were blending in with rebel fighters.QuoteJust because two opposing forces have both nuclear powers, doesn't mean they can't have a war between them.Did I said they can't? No. I said "almost impossible". And indeed it is, because they are not stupid enough to destroy the whole world for a pipeline.
Interesting.Man, not to me... No SERIOUSLY? Wake up.
Even the BBC aknowledges it.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16573516
British efforts to help topple Colonel Gaddafi were not limited to air strikes. On the ground - and on the quiet - special forces soldiers were blending in with rebel fighters.QuoteJust because two opposing forces have both nuclear powers, doesn't mean they can't have a war between them.Did I said they can't? No. I said "almost impossible". And indeed it is, because they are not stupid enough to destroy the whole world for a pipeline.
How can one post be filled with so much dumb shit? Jesus.
Just because two opposing forces have both nuclear powers, doesn't mean they can't have a war between them.Yes and no. They are more likely to destroy the world whilst trying to win a war between each other.
Just because two opposing forces have both nuclear powers, doesn't mean they can't have a war between them.Yes and no. They are more likely to destroy the world whilst trying to win a war between each other.
And that's why Coleen Powell calls them the biggest waste of money ever.
No one's going to use them, because no matter what the scenario you can't justify using it.
I'd disagree with that. I think it's more along the lines of environmental and political repercussions.Naow please go back to using stones and wooden clubs pls americunts
Seriously, the US dropped an Atomic bomb on two Japanese cities and we still face some fallout. Using a full-on NUKE? No.
Furthermore, nuclear weapons are in no way the natural next step from conventional warfare.It rather depends on the kind of warfare and the country. Some countries such as India and China made clear that they wouldn't be the first to use their nukes in case of war (no-first-use doctrine), making a strict difference between conventional warfare and nuclear warfare. However, many countries have plans to use nuclear weapons in case of conventional or non-nuclear warfare. For example the French plan during the Cold War, in case of full Soviet invasion, was to use tactical nuclear weapons first (the small ones), just to send the message that the nuclear red line had been reached. And then, if that didn't stop them, strategic nuclear weapons. Russia (unlike the USSR, which applied non-first-use) and the USA could use nuclear weapons if they felt that their vital interests were threaten. In case of conventional warfare between NATO and Russia, if NATO managed to crush the Russian army, and advanced towards the Russian border, Russia would likely say that a red line is reached and that it could use its nuclear weapons. The USA would probably do the same if the territory of some of its NATO allies, such as Poland, was threatened.
That's exactly the image he tries to spread - 'I'm ready for war if you force to start me one'. While Russia is definitely not ready for a war with NATO, and neither do the western countries want to start a war.What made you think, that it is not ready? I doubt that Russia, where propaganda works hard on the anti-EU/NATO/USA direction recently, where army budget was increased since last few years and some modernization provided, which spends a lot on trainings and flying/swimming their units near NATO countries can be definitely not ready. Especially if western countries tries to avoid war.
However they could send a few special units to help the rebels, like NATO countries did in Libya, send weapons and train troops on their own territory.They could?They already sent, and did all the such stuff.
A full war against Ukraine is very unlikely, and even a limited war (with a limited aim such as sizing Mariupol) is hard to imagine.Why?What can stop them from it?Sanctions?
European Council President Herman Van Rompuy said that at the negotiations with Vladimir Putin the European leaders warned him that the implementation of the Minsk agreement is the only way out of the crisis.Lol, how can agreement be the way out of this, if Russia don't give a single shit about it (that is understandable - because there is no reaction to it's vilolations)? :)
"As for Ukraine, we reiterated that we strongly support the Minsk agreement, that Russia is not holding on. Although earlier Russian side agreed with the terms of this agreement," - said the politician.
"Minsk agreement - is the only way in order to move forward (in resolving the crisis)," - he said. However, Rompuy says that despite the violations from Russia, European Council are not currently considering tougher sanctions.
"If Russia does not fulfill the agreements, the pressure on Russia will continue in the coming weeks and months. We're not talking about a significant strengthening of the sanctions, but we have to keep the pressure on Russia," - he said.
Just because Russia has spent more money doesn't mean they're ready. It might even mean the opposite. The NATO has a far better Air Force and Navy and nearly all are professional militaries, whereas Russia still depends on conscription.The Air Force could go either way because Russian MIG's and Sukhois are incredible flankers and versatile aircraft and cost worlds cheaper then their rival NATO aircraft counterparts. Look at the Su-35 / Su-27M/PU/Assorted Variants, T-50, MiG-29, and then their more experimental but also good looking aircraft like the SU-37 and SU-47. Russia is definitely underestimated in certain departments and shouldn't be taken for granted with their equipment.
Likewise, Russia sending out their air force and navy isn't to show off how mighty they are. It's merely an annoyance and an provocation, and if Western nations would do the same, it would be on Russian news as a 'entirely unprovoked attack on Russian territory'.
However, just looking at numbers, the Russian outforce is already outnumbered by just the US Airforce, who mostly uses F-16 and F-22. Adding the rest of the NATO members to that, you're looking at not only a great advantage in numbers, but also a slight edge in equipment quality (Most air forces are modernizing due to the conflict, while Russia has been trying to keep up for years).If you're referring to some massive coalition against Russia, as in America plus most of the EU/NATO, I think you're looking a bit too far. For one, I'm pretty sure most of the countries in the EU/NATO are looking to help out with supplies more then to have boots on the ground and the US probably won't do anything crazy either, and even if this was to go down, it wouldn't be too good for the world economy (if it wasn't already as shrekt as it is now). Not to mention that China could use this opportunity to expand into the pacific against Japan and a busy US if they were to get involved with Russia. So I don't really think a world conflict vs Russia would work out or be practical, and any modernizing country can still do a lot of damage, just look at Russia's SAM systems. You're going to need some serious SEAD planes to take out those buggers, couple with that their air force and you have quite a potent weapon capable of dispatching planes like the F16 and F15. Also, I have a feeling that F22's won't be used very much because the Pentagon here likes to make crap planes like the F35 instead of brilliant planes like the F22 and there is a limited number of F22's to use as opposed to other capable planes.
Russia might be underestimated, but I don't see why people keep shouting that Russia will kick everybody's butt.
If you're referring to some massive coalition against Russia, as in America plus most of the EU/NATO
America is doing fuck all to prepare for war again. They'll start doing that after a war. I think their doctrines are outdated aswell, for the past 15 years you've been fighting against a bunch of sandpeoples hiding in caves and sanddunes. All your tactics and active weaponry has been tailored to low-intensity warfare.
I know I didn't actually provide any argument there, but seriously, just read any US military doctrine handbook, or like even the news or something. What you're saying is just false.
I know I didn't actually provide any argument there, but seriously, just read any US military doctrine handbook, or like even the news or something. What you're saying is just false.
They could?They already sent, and did all the such stuff.That's true, they probably sent some special units. But they could send much more.
Why?What can stop them from it?Sanctions?Sanctions of course, as their economy has some problems at the moment, and they probably fear that (and they really want to have their French battleship). But also the risk of a NATO answer. For example NATO could reinforce its missile shield in Europe, and Russia wouldn't like that, or send more troops in Poland. In retaliation the US could also try to topple the Syrian government in Damascus, or put an end to negotiations with Iran. The second problem for Russia is the possibility to occupy western Ukraine. A great part of the population in western Ukraine, especially in Lviv, really hates Russia, and it would be hard for Putin to maintain order.
The Air Force could go either way because Russian MIG's and Sukhois are incredible flankers and versatile aircraft and cost worlds cheaper then their rival NATO aircraft counterparts. Look at the Su-35 / Su-27M/PU/Assorted Variants, T-50, MiG-29, and then their more experimental but also good looking aircraft like the SU-37 and SU-47. Russia is definitely underestimated in certain departments and shouldn't be taken for granted with their equipment.I would especially fear the S-300 family.
Just because Russia has spent more money doesn't mean they're ready. It might even mean the opposite. The NATO has a far better Air Force and Navy and nearly all are professional militaries, whereas Russia still depends on conscription.But at least they spend more to make their military better, while western countries decreased their military budgets last years. I'd say better, but not far, and as for second, part of contract soldiers almost the same as conscripts
However, just looking at numbers, the Russian outforce is already outnumbered by just the US Airforce, who mostly uses F-16 and F-22. Adding the rest of the NATO members to that, you're looking at not only a great advantage in numbers, but also a slight edge in equipment quality (Most air forces are modernizing due to the conflict, while Russia has been trying to keep up for years).hmm...
Most Spanish Eurofighter jets can't fly: report (http://www.thelocal.es/20141027/only-6-of-spains-39-eurofighter-planes-can-fly)
...
Only six Eurofighters in Spain's Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) service in bases at Morón de la Frontera and Albacete are currently capable of taking off, according to military insiders. These jets are kept ready to scramble 24 hours a day, year-round, to intercept suspicious aircraft in Spanish airspace.
The rest of Spain's Eurofighter planes have allegedly been grounded by breakdowns, missing spare parts and queues for inspections after reaching the maximum number of hours in the air.
Defense expert: Germany 'unable to meet NATO commitments' (http://www.dw.de/defense-expert-germany-unable-to-meet-nato-commitments/a-17960888)
Large portions of the German military's inventory are out of date and unable to keep up with the competition.
Germany's von der Leyen admits major Bundeswehr shortfalls (http://www.dw.de/germanys-von-der-leyen-admits-major-bundeswehr-shortfalls/a-17959798)
German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen has acknowledged major shortfalls in equipment for the Bundeswehr's military, especially in the air force. She said Germany is unable to deliver its defensive NATO promises.
...
The bulk of Germany's air force is currently grounded. Only 42 of 109 Eurofighters are currently ready for service, while 38 of 89 Tornado fighters could take to the skies. Earlier in the week, problems with Sea Lynx helicopters currently serving in the EU's anti-piracy mission off the Horn of Africa became public knowledge, months after the issue was first identified. As for Germany's fleet of C-160 transport planes, just over half - 24 of 43 - are in service;
If you're referring to some massive coalition against Russia, as in America plus most of the EU/NATO, I think you're looking a bit too far. For one, I'm pretty sure most of the countries in the EU/NATO are looking to help out with supplies more then to have boots on the groundExactly.
Sanctions of course, as their economy has some problems at the moment, and they probably fear that (and they really want to have their French battleship). But also the risk of a NATO answer. For example NATO could reinforce its missile shield in Europe, and Russia wouldn't like that, or send more troops in Poland. In retaliation the US could also try to topple the Syrian government in Damascus, or put an end to negotiations with Iran. The second problem for Russia is the possibility to occupy western Ukraine. A great part of the population in western Ukraine, especially in Lviv, really hates Russia, and it would be hard for Putin to maintain order.They could, but there is problems with such actions like more sanctions or NATO answer - to provide that, it is needed to a lot of country leaders get together, than reach an agreement on the question what to do, then signed this agreement and so on. While at russian side all is easier - one person can decide anything very quickly. :)
Ukraine apparently just mobilized these self-propelled howitzers.Spoiler(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/10750198_326511810865961_3536912360761456238_o.jpg)
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Like ye mumUkraine apparently just mobilized these self-propelled howitzers.Spoiler(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/10750198_326511810865961_3536912360761456238_o.jpg)
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Fat, slow and old.
It's self-propelled artillery. Who cares that its fat, slow and old? It still makes a big and accurate boom far, far away.
It's self-propelled artillery. Who cares that its fat, slow and old? It still makes a big and accurate boom far, far away.
Because old means lesser impact shells and lesser accuracy.
Although western SPHs are a bit overkill: being able to choose which inch of the building you wanna hit.
It's self-propelled artillery. Who cares that its fat, slow and old? It still makes a big and accurate boom far, far away.
Because old means lesser impact shells and lesser accuracy.
Although western SPHs are a bit overkill: being able to choose which inch of the building you wanna hit.
It's what you get when you decide to rebel.--Spanish on the issue of dirty Dutch rebels
It's what you get when you decide to rebel.
It's what you get when you decide to rebel.--Spanish on the issue of dirty Dutch rebels
It's what you get when you decide to rebel.
It's in a human's very nature to rebel against unjustified authority and seek autonomy in one's own life.
It's what you get when you decide to rebel.
It's what you get when you decide to rebel.
My goyim gets it ;)It's what you get when you decide to rebel.
ya nuke da syrian rebels
It's what you get when you decide to rebel.Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2009%2F2%2F17%2F1234890745571%2FBashar-al-Assad-President-001.jpg&hash=8216f19b5ad9b246cb4aa4a0d80a68d045abc058)[close]
So simply because your ancestors had the military abilities to kick out an oppressor, your revolt is more justified than that of say Donetsk? Just wondering if you believe martial ability and the ability to actually win determines who is justified and who is wrongIt's what you get when you decide to rebel.--Spanish on the issue of dirty Dutch rebels
Only we won.
So simply because your ancestors had the military abilities to kick out an oppressor, your revolt is more justified than that of say Donetsk? Just wondering if you believe martial ability and the ability to actually win determines who is justified and who is wrongIt's what you get when you decide to rebel.--Spanish on the issue of dirty Dutch rebels
Only we won.
U's still mai dootch babs
Said the same bout yo dick but it's slightly skewed to the left bbySo simply because your ancestors had the military abilities to kick out an oppressor, your revolt is more justified than that of say Donetsk? Just wondering if you believe martial ability and the ability to actually win determines who is justified and who is wrongIt's what you get when you decide to rebel.--Spanish on the issue of dirty Dutch rebels
Only we won.
U's still mai dootch babs
Might makes right, babez.
not to let some fucking dumb asstards create a new nation everytime they're unhappy.
not to let some fucking dumb asstards create a new nation everytime they're unhappy.
That's how Ukraine was created.
Glad you understand Ukraine isn't a real country and should of never been created in the first place.
Cheers.
not to let some fucking dumb asstards create a new nation everytime they're unhappy.
That's how Ukraine was created.
Glad you understand Ukraine isn't a real country and should of never been created in the first place.
Cheers.
No that's how Russia was created.
l2history
not to let some fucking dumb asstards create a new nation everytime they're unhappy.
That's how Ukraine was created.
Glad you understand Ukraine isn't a real country and should of never been created in the first place.
Cheers.
No that's how Russia was created.
l2history
Russia is descendant of Kievan Rus.
The First Eastern Slav State.
There are also foreign volunteers in the Ukrainian army.
And the right of self-determination is a farce. It is good that the people in eastern Ukraine use it, but not even the guy who invented it did stick to it.
Oh, aaand the people in eastern Ukraine and the people in western Ukraine are maybe as much the same as Dutch people and Germans.
Y u no join ze Reich, Duuring?
If a Russian is living in Ukraine and feels discriminated he can move to a country that better suits his cultural/ethnical/political background, such as Russia.
States are around to protect national identities, not to let some fucking dumb asstards create a new nation everytime they're unhappy.
not to let some fucking dumb asstards create a new nation everytime they're unhappy.
That's how Ukraine was created.
Glad you understand Ukraine isn't a real country and should of never been created in the first place.
Cheers.
No that's how Russia was created.
l2history
Russia is descendant of Kievan Rus.
The First Eastern Slav State.
Kievan. Kiev. Ukraine.
Who really gives a fuck, which people inhabited a region first. These people have co-existed for millenia, before states even existed.
Earth itself has existed for far longer than any individual human being, and even within the realm of human beings, the concept of property as we know it today has not existed for particularly long. Therefore, one could state that the entirety of Earth has begun in a state of common ownership, the property of all which lives upon it by default.
Could we just keep this Ukraine-centered please.
States are around to protect national identities, not to let some fucking dumb asstards create a new nation everytime they're unhappy.I prefer to have a state which protects its population, all the inhabitants of its territory, regardless of their religion, language, skin color, culture, tribal disagreements. We have seen too much of what happened to Yugoslavia and other former Soviet territories when some idiots decided that a state should protect "national identities" instead of the people itself. Those idiots usually become puppets in the hands of foreign power, exactly as Ukraine became the perfect American hooker.
QuoteStates are around to protect national identities, not to let some fucking dumb asstards create a new nation everytime they're unhappy.I prefer to have a state which protects its population, all the inhabitants of its territory, regardless of their religion, language, skin color, culture, tribal disagreements. We have seen too much of what happened to Yugoslavia and other former Soviet territories when some idiots decided that a state should protect "national identities" instead of the people itself. Those idiots usually become puppets in the hands of foreign power, exactly as Ukraine became the perfect American hooker.
The fascist lackeys in Kiev claimed to protect their "nation", but they did that on the basis of a great hatred for eastern Ukrainian populations, and eventually lost important part of their territory: Crimea, and now Donetsk and Luhansk. Is that how they protect "national identitites"?
Not only that. If you step back and look at things on a geological time scale, a lot of this petty nonsense doesn't matter. It's akin to getting all worked up over a game of Risk.
Being nationalistic is taking extreme pride in something that you had no say in. Being nationalistic is an assertion that the accidental circumstances of our birth are substantive, and that they matter. If these circumstances are substantive, if they matter, then there must be some reason for these differences and for people being in the circumstances they're in that goes beyond accident; it must be because these differences are inherent or earned or rewarded. If it's inherent, then anyone trying to cross the boundaries is violating some natural order, and you're justified in preventing them. If it's earned or rewarded, then anyone trying to cross the boundaries is trying to take what is not rightfully theirs, and you're justified in preventing them. Moreover, it also means that if you're militarily superior, you have the moral high ground on dictating the lives of others --- if you didn't, then by the logic of nationalism just described, you wouldn't be militarily superior.
In short, nationalism leads inexorably to oppression. Which MaxLam has eloquently explained aswel.
MarshalKim, are you a Russian?
Wanting to live in a country where you are accepted or feel comfortable in with reference to your culture/language/ideals/politcal ideology is the whole idea behind the existance of a nation.Then you must agree with the Ukrainian separatists since:
I don't want to live in Russia because i think they are backwards in comparison to my cultureYour culture didn't sent the first man in space. They did.
Then you must agree with the Ukrainian separatists since:
1. A majority of the inhabitants of the separatist regions don't speak Ukrainian. And many inhabitants of Ukraine in general.
2. They don't want the Ukrainian political system.
3. They don't share the same ideals.QuoteI don't want to live in Russia because i think they are backwards in comparison to my cultureYour culture didn't sent the first man in space. They did.
diplomaticrelations.dds(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F4%2F44%2FDmitry_Medvedev_and_Kim_Jong-il_2011-2.jpeg&hash=6f7d270cdb75fd395519fe064d5ced7ab776677e)[close]
World leaders often shake hands even if they kill each other later on.True, Mummar killing Obama, didn't see it coming.Spoiler(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ChE7jkwesdo/TYYl_c0wEmI/AAAAAAAADqc/PY1SRpECHGI/s1600/Gaddafi%2B%2526%2BObama2009.jpg)[close]
QuoteWanting to live in a country where you are accepted or feel comfortable in with reference to your culture/language/ideals/politcal ideology is the whole idea behind the existance of a nation.Then you must agree with the Ukrainian separatists since:
1. A majority of the inhabitants of the separatist regions don't speak Ukrainian. And many inhabitants of Ukraine in general.
2. They don't want the Ukrainian political system.Spoiler(https://thenextrecession.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/ukraine-election.png)[close]
3. They don't share the same ideals.
QuoteI don't want to live in Russia because i think they are backwards in comparison to my cultureYour culture didn't sent the first man in space. They did.
You're contradicting yourself. You make the point that a majority of citizens in Donetsk and Luhansk speak Russian and thus have reason to seperate, but then you make the point that many other Ukrainians also speak Russian, making your first point invalid.I don't see how that makes my point invalid. Basically the western regions speak Ukrainian and the Eastern regions speak Russian. According to the 2001 Ukrainian Census Russian is the dominant native language in the regions of Luhensk, Donetsk and Crimea. In the region of Odessa Ukrainian represents less than half of the population. So if we follow your idea that people should build their nations on the basis of language, it makes sense that the regions of Luhansk, Donets, and Crimea (especially Crimea since Ukrainian represents less than 10% of the population) demand to create their own nation or join Russia.
Really? Because a majority of them voted for another candidate, they don't want the political system?Have you not noticed that Yanukovych isn't the President of Ukraine anymore? He was overthrew. So basically you have some predominently Russian-speaking regions which voted overwhelmingly for Yanukovych (around 90% in Donetsk and Luhansk, and 80% in Crimea, something that you don't have in the Netherlands), yet their political choice wasn't respected since Yanukovych was violently overthrew.
What?The East is nostalgic of the Soviet Union, while the West is nostalgic of the Third Reich (as much as you are obviously, considering your Steam account).
Russia also has one of the highest amount of racial crimes in the world, as well as anti-gay legislation. I don't care how technically advanced they are, their culture is backward.That shouldn't bother the Kievan fascists much.
No, it's not democracy. Russian law effectively bans Gay Right groups, shutting down their right to democratic representation. I call that very backward.
While several states do not have same-sex marriage or protection laws, no country but Russia actually cuts their rights.
No, it's not democracy. Russian law effectively bans Gay Right groups, shutting down their right to democratic representation.
The East is nostalgic of the Soviet Union, while the West is nostalgic of the Third Reich (as much as you are obviously, considering your Steam account).
That shouldn't bother the Kievan fascists much.
Sorry, I confused with Sven.
I was referring to the actual fascists who support this government, the neo-nazis, banderists, and people like that. Can we say that the country is controlled by a fascist junta? Maybe not. Poroshenko the "Chocolate King" might not be a fascist, but the fascists have a strong influence in western Ukraine, and Poroshenko even said that UPA fascists who fought in WWII are "an example of heroism and patriotism to Ukraine". Would a democrat say something like that? Definitely not.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/09/26/poroshenko-to-consider-giving-upa-veterans-legal-status/
2. They don't want the Ukrainian political system.Why do you use an old 2012 map?Things changed since then:
3. They don't share the same ideals.
The East is nostalgic of the Soviet Union, while the West is nostalgic of the Third ReichYou're an idiot or what?West do not nostalgic of the Third Reich
I was referring to the actual fascists who support this government, the neo-nazis, banderists, and people like that.Lol, actually nationalists and thos who have ultra- and just right political views do not support this govermrnt much
Can we say that the country is controlled by a fascist junta? Maybe not.Ofcourse, junta is in Donetsk and Lugansk regions now
QuoteYou're contradicting yourself. You make the point that a majority of citizens in Donetsk and Luhansk speak Russian and thus have reason to seperate, but then you make the point that many other Ukrainians also speak Russian, making your first point invalid.I don't see how that makes my point invalid. Basically the western regions speak Ukrainian and the Eastern regions speak Russian. According to the 2001 Ukrainian Census Russian is the dominant native language in the regions of Luhensk, Donetsk and Crimea. In the region of Odessa Ukrainian represents less than half of the population. So if we follow your idea that people should build their nations on the basis of language, it makes sense that the regions of Luhansk, Donets, and Crimea (especially Crimea since Ukrainian represents less than 10% of the population) demand to create their own nation or join Russia.
QuoteWhat?The East is nostalgic of the Soviet Union, while the West is nostalgic of the Third Reich (as much as you are obviously, considering your Steam account).QuoteRussia also has one of the highest amount of racial crimes in the world, as well as anti-gay legislation. I don't care how technically advanced they are, their culture is backward.That shouldn't bother the Kievan fascists much.
No, it's not democracy. Russian law effectively bans Gay Right groups, shutting down their right to democratic representation.
Because Russians care for their culture and tradition, they don't want so called homosexual propaganda in their country because they believe it could destroy their values.
Furthermore (and I agree with that) the sexuality of a person does not concern anybody.
Poroshenko’s statements come nearing the UPA’s anniversary on October 14. Former president Yushchenko made similar inroads to define the UPA as war veteransI don't see how that doesn't support my view. This article is an article from Euromaidan, so of course they won't tell you all the truth about the UPA, that they killed a lot of Poles, and were nazi collaborators. But my point was that Poroshenko is close to or influenced by fascist organizations in Ukraine, and that's why he said that fascist UPA members are "an example". He might be an ignorant, but I don't think he is.
The UPA fought against the Soviet Union, Poland, and Nazi Germany for Ukrainian independence from 1942-1956.
discredit its veterans and supporters as “Nazis” and “fascists” despite fighting both German and Russian fascism in World War II.
What if Poroshenko does not view them as fascists?
What about Yushchenko who also doesn't seem to view them as fascists?
Why don't they mention that the UPA took part in ethnic cleansing of polish populations.
Are they fascists or just Nazi German collaborators?
Why don't they mention that the UPA took part in ethnic cleansing of polish populations?
Your article doesn't seem to support your view.
The UPA opposed the mobilization of able-bodied men into the Soviet Army through the extermination of whole families of those who joined.
The areas that were decided to belong to a sovereign Ukraine, should be kept in the hands of a sovereign Ukraine.Oh really? And why then? Can you give any reason for that? Any reason to keep Russian-speaking regions inside of Ukraine?
If you are a Russian living in Ukraine, you can move across the border if you do not like Ukraine, if you do not accept their values, if you do not want to live in the countryVery well. Then if you are a Ukrainian living in Crimea, Luhansk or Donetsk, you can also cross the border and go back to Kiev. If that's how you see relations between men and nations, then this means war. Don't complain if you lose at this game.
All credibility lost... Western Ukraine are Nazis and Kiev is in control of Fascists, good shit bruh.People should just go look at your Steam account which is linked in your profile to understand how "credible" you are when talking about fascists and nazis.
And they take majority there just because pro-westerns goes as separate parties, the do not have even more than 50% in any regionYour are obviously not able to analyse maps (I assume that you are Ukrainian), otherwise you would have noticed that Poroshenko's best score was 37.45% in the regions of Vinnytsia, while your pro-russian guy obtained 38.69 in Donetsk, 32.16% in Kharkov, and 36.59% in Lugansk = relative majority in all of those regions. And many pro-russians didn't even bothered to take part in this shameful election.
Otherwise you would have noticed that Poroshenko's best score was 37.45% in the regions of Vinnytsia, while your pro-russian guy obtained 38.69 in Donetsk, 32.16% in Kharkov, and 36.59% in Lugansk = relative majority in all of those regions.Yes, but if take all pro-western parties in Vinnytsia - pro-western Poroshenko's 37,45%+ pro-westerns Yatcenyk's 22,41% + pro-western Sadovuj 7, 58%+ pro-western Timoshenko 6.61 = 74, 05% - so all together the majority
fascist UPA membersfacepalm.jpg
Quote from: SvenThe areas that were decided to belong to a sovereign Ukraine, should be kept in the hands of a sovereign Ukraine.Oh really? And why then? Can you give any reason for that? Any reason to keep Russian-speaking regions inside of Ukraine?
QuoteIf you are a Russian living in Ukraine, you can move across the border if you do not like Ukraine, if you do not accept their values, if you do not want to live in the countryVery well. Then if you are a Ukrainian living in Crimea, Luhansk or Donetsk, you can also cross the border and go back to Kiev. If that's how you see relations between men and nations, then this means war. Don't complain if you lose at this game.
All credibility lost... Western Ukraine are Nazis and Kiev is in control of Fascists, good shit bruh.People should just go look at your Steam account which is linked in your profile to understand how "credible" you are when talking about fascists and nazis. [/quote]
I think he meant the german WW2 soldier's picture and the "╬ Deutsche Wehrmacht '35-'45 ╬"
I myself strongly believe your fascist tendencies are rooted in Botswana.
>greentexting outside of 4chan
>2000 + 14
Both sides of this debate are dumb. The only people I really sympathize with are the Ukrainian people, who are having their country torn apart because of geopoliticsSpoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.naamapalmu.com%2Ffiles%2F2z%2Fmedium%2Fy1ddi9sm.jpg&hash=6dd49926c1fc0719b0aec83443dea54b49924729)[close]
And yes, i am a part of the botswanian FLP (fascist liberation police)
Remember, you're arguing with Russiaboos
The only people I really sympathize with are the Ukrainian people, who are having their country torn apart because of geopolitics
Ukraine gained their soveriegnity and their borders by law and thus it's borders mark Ukraine.Yes because the Bolsheviks decided that the Soviet Constitution would allow secession of member Republics. Without this right, Ukraine might still be a Russian territory. Yet the Ukrainian fascists, nationalists and chocolate lovers have decided that Crimea, a historical Russian territory which was given to Ukraine by Soviet Russia, wouldn't have the right to secede. But if Crimea and other territories are refused the right to secede, then it's also fair if Russia decides to take back Ukraine which is little more than a former territory of the Russian Empire, Poland and Romania.
I think he meant the german WW2 soldier's picture and the "╬ Deutsche Wehrmacht '35-'45 ╬"Yes, and associated with the "fuck off commies" it looks much more than a simple "clan thing". ::)
So by writing on my steam profile 'Fuck off Commies :D' i'm apparently affiliated with fascism and nazism, aight bruh. By looking at your FSE profile i can observe you're and imperialistic francophile thug who supports militarism. See how this works?I'm a sapper. I build bridges between peoples.
Quote from: SvenUkraine gained their soveriegnity and their borders by law and thus it's borders mark Ukraine.Yes because the Bolsheviks decided that the Soviet Constitution would allow secession of member Republics. Without this right, Ukraine might still be a Russian territory. Yet the Ukrainian fascists, nationalists and chocolate lovers have decided that Crimea, a historical Russian territory which was given to Ukraine by Soviet Russia, wouldn't have the right to secede. But if Crimea and other territories are refused the right to secede, then it's also fair if Russia decides to take back Ukraine which is little more than a former territory of the Russian Empire, Poland and Romania.
Quote from: KimI think he meant the german WW2 soldier's picture and the "╬ Deutsche Wehrmacht '35-'45 ╬"Yes, and associated with the "fuck off commies" it looks much more than a simple "clan thing". ::)
QuoteSo by writing on my steam profile 'Fuck off Commies :D' i'm apparently affiliated with fascism and nazism, aight bruh. By looking at your FSE profile i can observe you're and imperialistic francophile thug who supports militarism. See how this works?I'm a sapper. I build bridges between peoples.
Well shit, considering the red and blue guys won, my country is gonna have a lot of little independent states within it.(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsuffragio.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2FElection-map.png&hash=6c8a88f675ae9b34264f7270465428717f90a42c)[close]
#FederalRepublicOfTheNetherlands #DecentralisationNow #FuckHolland #Provinces<3
Crimea is also historically Turkish and muslim, does it make sense if they invaded it and held a rigged poll to make it seceded to Turkey? International law is not something you can bend around.
#RemoveKaaskoppen #ToArms #DutchCivilWarNow #DuuringsFreikorpsActivated
#removeUtrecht
https://www.facebook.com/GelderlandOnafhankelijk
https://www.facebook.com/GelderlandOnafhankelijk
https://www.facebook.com/GelderlandOnafhankelijk
I don't feel like translating that page but I like that lake picture so +1
I like neither commies nor capitalists.u can go to back of the bus its okei
Am I abnormal? :-[
I like neither commies nor capitalists.
Am I abnormal? :-[
I like neither commies nor capitalists.
Am I abnormal? :-[
You're an Augy.
God help your soul.
Remember, you're arguing with Russiaboos
Russian rockets engine stronk. U.S NASA suck poop and cannot make better so they buy them from stronk Rossia.
Russian Space program stronk. Has all the historical records except landing on a useless rock.
Russian Shkval Torpedo much Stronk. Only Torpedo to reach 370km/h and maybe even more. + conventional explosive or nuclear.
Redsquare is nice.
Moscow has nice places.
Saint Petersburg is nice.
Matter of fact I might go next year.
Suka.
Remember, you're arguing with Russiaboos
Russian rockets engine stronk. U.S NASA suck poop and cannot make better so they buy them from stronk Rossia.
Russian Space program stronk. Has all the historical records except landing on a useless rock.
Russian Shkval Torpedo much Stronk. Only Torpedo to reach 370km/h and maybe even more. + conventional explosive or nuclear.
Redsquare is nice.
Moscow has nice places.
Saint Petersburg is nice.
Matter of fact I might go next year.
Suka.
Obviously space program stronk, but don't be so resentful about the useless rock landing and the driving little cars on it, Russia will have it's golden age of space again when they colonize Pluto, another "hell frozen over" wasteland just like russia.
btw caught you off guard it's not Saint Petersburg it's Петроград you are dirty imperialist pig who acts like he aint
You need to understand the fundamental difference between a restrictions of human rights and a restriction of democratic rights. See, a state is entirely allowed to democratically decide to take certain rights (like marriage) from a certain part of their citizens. What they can't do, at least not without abolishing democracy, is take away the democratic rights of those citizens. They can't take away their vote, and they can't take away their right to organize themselves. As soon as a group of people can't express themselves politically, the state is no longer democratic as it bans a certain part of their citizens from taking part in the democratic process - which isn't just voting. In short, criminalizing homosexuality by popular vote is democratic, banning gay right groups isn't.
First picture that came up when I googled "Turk"
First picture that came up when I googled "Turk"
I got Kemal Atatürk, Arda Turan and a bunch of kebab. Does google tailor results or something?
First picture that came up when I googled "Turk"
I got Kemal Atatürk, Arda Turan and a bunch of kebab. Does google tailor results or something?
Yes.
I wonder if Russia would ever have invaded Crimea if Ukraine would have legalized cannibalism.
First picture that came up when I googled "Turk"
I got Kemal Atatürk, Arda Turan and a bunch of kebab. Does google tailor results or something?
Yes.
Fuckssake. I don't want google knowing how often i buy kebab pizza.
First picture that came up when I googled "Turk"
I got Kemal Atatürk, Arda Turan and a bunch of kebab. Does google tailor results or something?
Yes.
Fuckssake. I don't want google knowing how often i buy kebab pizza.
Oh man when you said kebab I thought you were referring to turkish people
I just read how effective the western sanctions divided Russia's government and Russia's people.Of course that's going to happen given the massive amount Putin spends on fuelling his propaganda machine. If western nations were able to control state media and blackmail anyone who went against them into keeping their mouths shut they'd have much higher approval ratings. Orwell springs to mind. Not surprising particularly, what with history repeating itself and all that.
85% of all Russians highly advocate Putin's work, 63% also support Medwedew and 59% are very content with the entire government.
Fun fact: They do, but are still not as popular here as Putin in Russia.I just read how effective the western sanctions divided Russia's government and Russia's people.Of course that's going to happen given the massive amount Putin spends on fuelling his propaganda machine. If western nations were able to control state media and blackmail anyone who went against them into keeping their mouths shut they'd have much higher approval ratings.
85% of all Russians highly advocate Putin's work, 63% also support Medwedew and 59% are very content with the entire government.
Fun fact: They do, but are still not as popular here as Putin in Russia.I just read how effective the western sanctions divided Russia's government and Russia's people.Of course that's going to happen given the massive amount Putin spends on fuelling his propaganda machine. If western nations were able to control state media and blackmail anyone who went against them into keeping their mouths shut they'd have much higher approval ratings.
85% of all Russians highly advocate Putin's work, 63% also support Medwedew and 59% are very content with the entire government.
I love Horrible Histories. But I can't watch this vid in my country :(
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXmMT4sETu8[/youtube]
Related due to russia being in it.
(Pls durin no moderatoo)
Anything else to support it? I mean he makes good points but 1 video from Russia Today isn't really convincing.Most of my sources are German-speaking...
Anything else to support it? I mean he makes good points but 1 video from Russia Today isn't really convincing.Most of my sources are German-speaking...
Paet said another physician who treated victims, Dr. Olga Bogomolets, told him that both police and protesters were killed by the same bullets — and "there is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind snipers it was not Yanukovych, but it was somebody from the new (government) coalition."
On Wednesday Paet confirmed the recording was authentic, and told reporters in Tallinn that he was merely repeating what Bogomolets had told him.
lol.
The same bullets? What does he mean? The same caliber? Everybody can use the same caliber. Besides the fact that Olga Bogomolets is a physician and not a surgeon, and that there's no record of her performing the tasks of a surgeon during the Maidan - Not even on her own website. There are only two videos of her talking to the press. She was there, and she supported it, and it's IMPLIED that she was involved with medical tasks, but proof? None.
American media is notoriously bad and biased. The point is that they don't give a state-written version of every event, but actually bring news. You post articles stating that the media is biased, yet have no problems with using same media when it supports your point.
Proof that the US Media is not biased and is ALWAYS displaying 100% true information.http://theconspiracyzone.podcastpeople.com/posts/28160Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_On6h0CRgS28%2FTNPKyEa9PhI%2FAAAAAAAAAAw%2FGxlUdrpY7Qw%2Fs1600%2Foriginalfortress-hoopa.bmp&hash=d4c0b78adfc7bfaf4e37e39db42f8be2e3024c66)[close]
I'd like to clarify that this comment is not meant to discredit anything written in the links you posted, but more to point to the fact that there is little to no editorial oversight as far as I can tell. They are all published to convey a certain point, so what they say must be taken with a pinch of salt. The way I contrast that with, for example, BBC, is that while they have a certain point of view, they report all news, even if their writers themselves may be biased. By contrast these will suffer from confirmation bias as they are written expressly to support a given view.SpoilerThis site for example collects any kind of desinformation, lie or misrepresentation of the truth from platforms like CNN, our German media, the NATO and so on:
http://propagandaschau.wordpress.com/
Here an English article about the propaganda war:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/media-lies-and-the-propaganda-war-about-ukraine/5387197
This is a group of German peace activists. They are quite famous and do a lot of interviews with people like Albrecht Müller, Rainer Rupp (aka "Topas", he helped to avoid a nuclear war when he worked for the GDR as a spy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83) or Willy Wimmer (you probably don't know these persons if you don't live in Germany):
http://kenfm.de/
This is an article about the incidents in Kiev earlier this year:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/10/1283560/-Our-news-media-is-lying-to-us-about-UkraineEdithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Obmvybl49k[close][close]
Disclaimer: The contents of this article are of sole responsibility of the author(s). The Centre for Research on Globalization will not be responsible for any inaccurate or incorrect statement in this article.
Separatists shooting from BM-21 Grad near houses in DonetskSpoilerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqJdQYGe0sA[close]
You got it all wrong. The West doing it (with the world leading imperialist country of the world. The U.S) excuses Russia.I assume you work with super secret Russian secret SS super secret service?
You mean FSB?I mean the Rustapo
Interesting article though it does not excuse the West from doing these same tactics
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/11/its-not-just-ukraine-113164.html#.VHyqYHeCPCQ
Any more news about the situation in Ukraine? Have the Ukrainian troops made any ground against the rebels?Hopefully not!
So I guess you are a Putin supporter? ::)Any more news about the situation in Ukraine? Have the Ukrainian troops made any ground against the rebels?Hopefully not!
Any more news about the situation in Ukraine? Have the Ukrainian troops made any ground against the rebels?
Definitely! Like these Haitians: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-30356539
I'm a German patriot and Putin's policy is good for Europe and Germany, so I support him.
Any more news about the situation in Ukraine? Have the Ukrainian troops made any ground against the rebels?
Got some footage of continued fighting around Debaltseve from the past week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_xcbNv3uDQ
I don't think he is corrupt, otherwise he would work against his own people who love him. He disempowered a lot of the Russian oligarchs who were kind of stealing the people's returns and bringing it out of Russia.Definitely! Like these Haitians: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-30356539
I'm a German patriot and Putin's policy is good for Europe and Germany, so I support him.
Putin's policy is stealing money, being a corrupt politician (Not saying a lot of politicians are any better), and using old Russian tactics that have been used for years in both the Federation and the USSR. He's just another corrupt Russian politician with a strong look that makes everyone like him. Nothing really new, just trying to act bigger than he is. :P
That looks terrifying, I hope this war will end soon.SpoilerAny more news about the situation in Ukraine? Have the Ukrainian troops made any ground against the rebels?
Got some footage of continued fighting around Debaltseve from the past week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_xcbNv3uDQ[close]I don't think he is corrupt, otherwise he would work against his own people who love him. He disempowered a lot of the Russian oligarchs who were kind of stealing the people's returns and bringing it out of Russia.Definitely! Like these Haitians: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-30356539
I'm a German patriot and Putin's policy is good for Europe and Germany, so I support him.
Putin's policy is stealing money, being a corrupt politician (Not saying a lot of politicians are any better), and using old Russian tactics that have been used for years in both the Federation and the USSR. He's just another corrupt Russian politician with a strong look that makes everyone like him. Nothing really new, just trying to act bigger than he is. :P
Yeah, I do.That looks terrifying, I hope this war will end soon.SpoilerAny more news about the situation in Ukraine? Have the Ukrainian troops made any ground against the rebels?
Got some footage of continued fighting around Debaltseve from the past week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_xcbNv3uDQ[close]I don't think he is corrupt, otherwise he would work against his own people who love him. He disempowered a lot of the Russian oligarchs who were kind of stealing the people's returns and bringing it out of Russia.Definitely! Like these Haitians: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-30356539
I'm a German patriot and Putin's policy is good for Europe and Germany, so I support him.
Putin's policy is stealing money, being a corrupt politician (Not saying a lot of politicians are any better), and using old Russian tactics that have been used for years in both the Federation and the USSR. He's just another corrupt Russian politician with a strong look that makes everyone like him. Nothing really new, just trying to act bigger than he is. :P
Do you actually believe this?
media tell me russia bad must be true
rt no trust cnn fox news bbc +1000 trust
Those have been staged. The Hockey one obviously hasn't.
I don't get why people tend to love Putin so much while hating their own leaders. I've seen people complaining about our leaders being power hungry near-dictators who only care about their own wallets, and then those same people call Putin the best and strongest leader ever. The irony seems to be completely lost on them.
Correct, but the people of Haiti decided by themselves to create their country, the Ukraine was created by Stalin.
And our media just called it a "great and proud nation" while it's inhabited by Ukrainians (which isn't even a nation, it means border area and it's just a geographical region, the people there should be called Ruthenians), Russians, Romanians, Byelorussians, Tartars and so on.
There is a reason it was called border area. But I don't have a problem with this artificial country as long as their inhabitants are allowed to decide if they want to live there or not.
In fact, Russia guaranteed Ukraine's territorial integrety in exchange for their nuclear weapons... Seen from today's perspective the Ukraine made a big misstake trusting Russia in this point.In fact, NATO guaranteed not to expand towards the Russian borders. Russia made a big mistake by trusting NATO in this point.
Also I don't see what legtimation Putin had for the annecting Crimea - There was no state of necessity and no other reason justifying this action.
Russia broke international law and that's it.
I'm sorry, but isn't it better for a country to work for a peacefull relationship with other countries instead of defending national interests? I think so - therefore i can't understand why some people seem to close their eyes from this evidence, which got finally clear after the two world wars... That's why I have to disagree with Turin, because being a good president for your country means guaranteeing freedom and prosperity - not breaking international law and isolating your country from the international community and by doing that ruining your economy and risking your stability.National interests are the reason why we have countries. The only purpose of a so called goverment is to defend a country's national interests. For Russia this also means to defend Russians against a genocide even if they don't live in Russia.
A nation is a nation when it got accepted as one by the international community what Ukraine for sure got. And as a nation their integrety must be respected also from other nations.Indeed, like for example the integrity of Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, Chile, Honduras, Bolivia, Guatemala, Brazil, Argentinia, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Peru, Panama, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Haiti and Venezuela. These are the countries whose national integrity got violated by the USA after WW2. And they violated it to serve their own national interests with no regards at all.
How a nation got created isn't saying anything about their right to defend their territorial integrety. It simply doesn't matter -
I don't see a support of a democratic referendum when Russia invades with military forces who are not even wearing a nations flag - that's terror and that's also corrumping any election for independence.
Russia intervened in Ukraine before the Referendum - and as i've already said being against Russias behavior doesn't mean that you love everything that the USA did.
NATOA SOEVEREIGN.
Russia can't order states to join or not join an organisation. They just love acting like they can.
I don't see a support of a democratic referendum when Russia invades with military forces who are not even wearing a nations flag - that's terror and that's also corrumping any election for independence.
Russia intervened in Ukraine before the Referendum - and as i've already said being against Russias behavior doesn't mean that you love everything that the USA did.
Ukraine's constitution doesn't allow territorial changes unless the whole nation votes on it.
That's like if England voted in the Scottish referendum,
Spain voted in a Catalan referendum
or Canadians voted in a Quebec referendum.
Without Russian intervention the peoples wishes in the region would not of been recognised and Ukraine would of denied it and deemed it illegal under it's stupid constitution.
Is the Ukraine a NATO-member?It explains why Russia feels threatened.
I don't say that the USA did not break international law aswell, but that doesn't justify Russia's actions.
National interests are also to have a prosperous relation with your neighbours. In a globalised worlds it means respecting international law and not abusing economical power against other states in the way Russia did it with Ukraine for example. I think it is clear, that there was no risk of a genocide, there is no proof for any risk and it's actually a quite bad lie from the russian governement.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eODcBeFmmF0
Russia intervened in Ukraine before the Referendum - and as i've already said being against Russias behavior doesn't mean that you love everything that the USA did.You are right, because I for example hate everything the USA does. And btw do you think the Ukrainian "government" would have allowed such a referendum without Russian forces keeping the situation under control?
How a nation got created isn't saying anything about their right to defend their territorial integrety. It simply doesn't matter -
Zionist detected
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.whidbey.net%2Ffredt%2FNARFE196_files%2Falarm1.gif&hash=a4dc564709da4efc7c6c3447f9c5e867ba70e08a)
You are right, because I for example hate everything the USA does. And btw do you think the Ukrainian "government" would have allowed such a referendum without Russian forces keeping the situation under control?
Is the Ukraine a NATO-member?It explains why Russia feels threatened.
I don't say that the USA did not break international law aswell, but that doesn't justify Russia's actions.National interests are also to have a prosperous relation with your neighbours. In a globalised worlds it means respecting international law and not abusing economical power against other states in the way Russia did it with Ukraine for example. I think it is clear, that there was no risk of a genocide, there is no proof for any risk and it's actually a quite bad lie from the russian governement.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eODcBeFmmF0Russia intervened in Ukraine before the Referendum - and as i've already said being against Russias behavior doesn't mean that you love everything that the USA did.You are right, because I for example hate everything the USA does. And btw do you think the Ukrainian "government" would have allowed such a referendum without Russian forces keeping the situation under control?Lol.SpoilerHow a nation got created isn't saying anything about their right to defend their territorial integrety. It simply doesn't matter -
Zionist detected
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Doublepost detected you bad boy.
Edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0fHJ-nKHPE
It's not even their right to rule Ukraine.Only because Russia feels threatened that is no legitite reason for breaking international law. For what else do we have diplomacy??SpoilerIs the Ukraine a NATO-member?It explains why Russia feels threatened.
I don't say that the USA did not break international law aswell, but that doesn't justify Russia's actions.National interests are also to have a prosperous relation with your neighbours. In a globalised worlds it means respecting international law and not abusing economical power against other states in the way Russia did it with Ukraine for example. I think it is clear, that there was no risk of a genocide, there is no proof for any risk and it's actually a quite bad lie from the russian governement.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eODcBeFmmF0Russia intervened in Ukraine before the Referendum - and as i've already said being against Russias behavior doesn't mean that you love everything that the USA did.You are right, because I for example hate everything the USA does. And btw do you think the Ukrainian "government" would have allowed such a referendum without Russian forces keeping the situation under control?Lol.SpoilerHow a nation got created isn't saying anything about their right to defend their territorial integrety. It simply doesn't matter -
Zionist detected
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Doublepost detected you bad boy.
Edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0fHJ-nKHPE[close]
Hating everything a country does is really a good argument regarding the value of your arguments ::)
As i've said the Ukrainian governement is souvereign and it is their right to deny a Referendum.
Just go back to the days of feudalismFinally an appropriate proposal!
Much stronk holding
The Ukrainian Governement got accepted by nearly every nation. During a "revolution" the situation in a country may not be as stabile as in a "normal" country.I still don't know if there are Russian troops in eastern Ukraine, nobody can give me a proof. If there are any, they are doing a damn good job by defending these two republics.
But this instability may not be used as an argument to deny the Ukrainian population's sovereign will and to intervene with military forces. There was nothing that comes near to a genocide and the instability got created by the russian troops invading, it did not exist before that - or not in that large scale.
Imagine Russia establishing military bases in Canada and Mexico with nuclear weaponry.Where is your proof for these "ethnic killings"?
And as I said, the illegal regime in Kiev kills ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine.
The US is not threatened at all.
And Russia is not acting inappropriate. I think they are even pretty defensive due to western pressure.
The US is not threatened at all.
And Russia is not acting inappropriate. I think they are even pretty defensive due to western pressure.
By invading a sovereign country..............that's really defensive of them ::)
No. By supporting sovereign people in their fight for freedom.The US is not threatened at all.
And Russia is not acting inappropriate. I think they are even pretty defensive due to western pressure.
By invading a sovereign country..............that's really defensive of them ::)
@Duuring:And no person on earth can tell me that NATO is not a US controlled offensive alliance.Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepresource.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F04%2Frussia-wants-war.jpg&hash=35429b5bd89bfd5ffb7577deda52a76b3dd90cb9)[close]
You kill the 5 insects and 4 spiders in his grass, walk up to your neighbor and state that you now own his land. Explain the logic in that.That's it.@Duuring:And no person on earth can tell me that NATO is not a US controlled offensive alliance.Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepresource.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F04%2Frussia-wants-war.jpg&hash=35429b5bd89bfd5ffb7577deda52a76b3dd90cb9)[close]
What's your point? Countries can't decide to allow foreign bases on their territory? News flash dude. They can. They're sovereign, remember?
The fact that Russia feels threatened is pretty much a self-inflicted wound. Russia apparently argues that other states should stay afraid of Russia and not do anything without their approval, and if they do, such an action threatens Russia? Or maybe Russia could just keep busy with business within Russian borders.
Or maybeRussiaU.S could just keep busy with business withinRussianU.S borders.
And tell me of the offensive wars the NATO has already fought?Afghanistan 2001 and Libya 2011
But that is in no way a reason not to be against the breaking of international law by Russia.(https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1388/44/1388440655614.jpg)
Afghanistan 2001 and Libya 2011
I find it also amazing you have the guts to state Ukraine is 'ethically cleansing' Russian in Ukraine. Why? Because they bomb the regions controlled by armed separatists who have fought and killed thousands of Ukrainian troops, the same separatists who have no problems with putting artillery batteries conveniently behind tall civilian buildings so that IF the Ukrainians shoot back, they will probably hit those buildings at least once. And for your information, the separatists are shooting with artillery just as much. Saying that one side is solely doing all the killing is ridiculous.
The fact that there are civilians dying in the Donbass region is the sole fault of the separatists. If you decide to rise in open rebellion and state you wish to steal a region and take it to another country, I somehow don't find it very surprising that the government doesn't agree with that. They have the right to defend their territorial integrity. Had there been no rebellion, there would have been no killing - Because for as far as I recall, there are no 'ethic cleansing' in regions as Kharkiv or other eastern regions of Ukraine, and not even in the liberated parts of Luhansk and Donetsk.
You kill the 5 insects and 4 spiders in his grass, walk up to your neighbor and state that you now own his land. Explain the logic in that.Most of these countries aren't sovereign. No country is sovereign as long as it has troops from other countries on their ground. 1966 Charles de Gaulle forced 30000 foreign NATO soldiers to leave France because "France was now striving for full sovereignity".@Duuring:And no person on earth can tell me that NATO is not a US controlled offensive alliance.Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepresource.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F04%2Frussia-wants-war.jpg&hash=35429b5bd89bfd5ffb7577deda52a76b3dd90cb9)[close]
What's your point? Countries can't decide to allow foreign bases on their territory? News flash dude. They can. They're sovereign, remember?
Kosovo 1999And tell me of the offensive wars the NATO has already fought?Afghanistan 2001 and Libya 2011
You kill the 5 insects and 4 spiders in his grass, walk up to your neighbor and state that you now own his land. Explain the logic in that.Most of these countries aren't sovereign. No country is sovereign as long as it has troops from other countries on their ground. 1966 Charles de Gaulle forced 30000 foreign NATO soldiers to leave France because "France was now striving for full sovereignity".@Duuring:And no person on earth can tell me that NATO is not a US controlled offensive alliance.Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepresource.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F04%2Frussia-wants-war.jpg&hash=35429b5bd89bfd5ffb7577deda52a76b3dd90cb9)[close]
What's your point? Countries can't decide to allow foreign bases on their territory? News flash dude. They can. They're sovereign, remember?Kosovo 1999And tell me of the offensive wars the NATO has already fought?Afghanistan 2001 and Libya 2011
True, me too. I knew the Serbians executed a bunch of Bosnians and NATO bombed a bunch of Serbians ...You kill the 5 insects and 4 spiders in his grass, walk up to your neighbor and state that you now own his land. Explain the logic in that.Most of these countries aren't sovereign. No country is sovereign as long as it has troops from other countries on their ground. 1966 Charles de Gaulle forced 30000 foreign NATO soldiers to leave France because "France was now striving for full sovereignity".@Duuring:And no person on earth can tell me that NATO is not a US controlled offensive alliance.Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepresource.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F04%2Frussia-wants-war.jpg&hash=35429b5bd89bfd5ffb7577deda52a76b3dd90cb9)[close]
What's your point? Countries can't decide to allow foreign bases on their territory? News flash dude. They can. They're sovereign, remember?Kosovo 1999And tell me of the offensive wars the NATO has already fought?Afghanistan 2001 and Libya 2011
Kosovo and other Balkan "Offensives"can be argued to be interventions and to have actually saved lives. To be fair I'm not the most knowledgeable about those conflicts. Maybe they made sure to bomb a few houses to keep a consistent reputation.
You kill the 5 insects and 4 spiders in his grass, walk up to your neighbor and state that you now own his land. Explain the logic in that.
You kill the 5 insects and 4 spiders in his grass, walk up to your neighbor and state that you now own his land. Explain the logic in that.Most of these countries aren't sovereign. No country is sovereign as long as it has troops from other countries on their ground. 1966 Charles de Gaulle forced 30000 foreign NATO soldiers to leave France because "France was now striving for full sovereignity".@Duuring:And no person on earth can tell me that NATO is not a US controlled offensive alliance.Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdeepresource.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F04%2Frussia-wants-war.jpg&hash=35429b5bd89bfd5ffb7577deda52a76b3dd90cb9)[close]
What's your point? Countries can't decide to allow foreign bases on their territory? News flash dude. They can. They're sovereign, remember?
You kill the 5 insects and 4 spiders in his grass, walk up to your neighbor and state that you now own his land. Explain the logic in that.
Oh, I never knew that the Russians were going to annex Donetsk and Luhansk, I just checked and it's called the Donetsk Republic in Russia.
Of Course there could always be a referendum.
That's a ridiculous definition of sovereignty. Just because what one man said, doesn't suddenly change the scientific meaning of a concept.
The last time Ukraine was sovereign was 2013
You might be right.The last time Ukraine was sovereign was 2013
The last time Ukraine was sovereign was in 1920.
The last time Ukraine was sovereign was 2013
I honestly doubt those 120 NATO soldiers in Lithuania are going to take over the country.They have it because Crimea is Russian. Germany is not American.
Sovereign means that only the government of that state has the power to act in that country. While states are bound by treaties and organizations as the UN to restrict themselves from excessive use of that power, they can still do what they like. Germany can pass a law banning all American symbols from the country and the USA can't do shit. Though, Germany technically indeed isn't sovereign as there's still a law stating the US army can legally shoot German citizens without having to face German jurisdiction.
IThe last time Ukraine was sovereign was 2013
Oh Turin, come on. You're not even trying to hide your Russian bias here. The fact that Russia has an enormous military base on the Crimea, much larger then any US base in Germany, doesn't interfere with Ukrainian sovereignty?
Of course Germany is a souvereign state.
It has the fourth biggest economy of the world and besides that has full control over its territory, its population, judicature and has with no doubt full state authority.
One single passus about american soldiers who may be allowed to shoot german civilians (i dont know about this passus) will not change the fact that Germany is one of the most souvereign and powerfull nations of the world - so if Germany isn't souvereign - who else can say that from hisself?
Of course Germany is a souvereign state.Economy has nothing to do with sovereignty. Well, actually it has, but we are at the moment harming our economy by doing what our overlord says (sanctions against Russia).
It has the fourth biggest economy of the world and besides that has full control over its territory, its population, judicature and has with no doubt full state authority.
One single passus about american soldiers who may be allowed to shoot german civilians (i dont know about this passus) will not change the fact that Germany is one of the most souvereign and powerfull nations of the world - so if Germany isn't souvereign - who else can say that from hisself?
I think you are confusing souvereignity with determination.Determination is connected to sovereignity. And we have none of them.
We are determined. There's no way to be it not. But souvereignty means something completly else.
I am always quite surprised that these theories about "puppet-chancellors" and so on are getting even more popular, though they are complete bullshit...
Countries always pick a side - the side that suits their interests the best. Blah blah blah.
It doesn't matter that Crimea is partly inhabited by Russians. Russia gave it up.
Oh yes, let's pick a single example from the 193 states this globe currently possesses.
Switzerland has an extremely favorable position with immense defensive capacities, as well as being neutral by law. That being said, she is a member of several EU treaties and you can easily fit her within the Western power-hemisphere. She's just a sleeping player.
Iran and Syria are also obviously independent.
As does Russia.I wish they hadn't to.
Which is a shame.
Switzerland can be neutral because they are too small to be dangerous aswell as they are too small to be very helpfull.I understand your point. But it cannot be the solution to just pick one side. I neither want to shoot at Russians nor do I want to shoot at Ukrainians.
For a nation like Germany it is not possible to stay neutral because that would isolate it - even if we were neutral it would be even harder to defend our interest because then we'd have no allies...
Correct. That's why I'm on the side of the revolutionaries.Which is a complete miss-interpretation of international law... Or at least the consequences of your position ;)
ohhh german civil war going on here
Luckily you are not in charge of our government ... unfortunately Merkel is.Correct. That's why I'm on the side of the revolutionaries.Which is a complete miss-interpretation of international law... Or at least the consequences of your position ;)
Definitely!ohhh german civil war going on here
Those have been staged. The Hockey one obviously hasn't.
I don't get why people tend to love Putin so much while hating their own leaders. I've seen people complaining about our leaders being power hungry near-dictators who only care about their own wallets, and then those same people call Putin the best and strongest leader ever. The irony seems to be completely lost on them.
Those have been staged. The Hockey one obviously hasn't.
I don't get why people tend to love Putin so much while hating their own leaders. I've seen people complaining about our leaders being power hungry near-dictators who only care about their own wallets, and then those same people call Putin the best and strongest leader ever. The irony seems to be completely lost on them.
Because this forum is populated with teenagers and young adults, and seeing how you are a young adult yourself, I'd guess you tend to associate with people similar to yourself. It's the cool, edgy thing to do. It's juvanile and rebellious - natural. It's the same reason radical atheism is popular and socialism in America. It's rad and unique! Fuck the system! People grow out of it. There's a reason the Republican party is populated mostly by old people. There's a reason Hitler and Stalin and Mao admired and favored young people for their unbreakable spirit and easily shaped minds. A reason every political party has a youth organization. We're dumbbbb.
We could....take Russia down......a few notches.............That's exactly the kind of insanity our media is telling us.
Those have been staged. The Hockey one obviously hasn't.
I don't get why people tend to love Putin so much while hating their own leaders. I've seen people complaining about our leaders being power hungry near-dictators who only care about their own wallets, and then those same people call Putin the best and strongest leader ever. The irony seems to be completely lost on them.
Because this forum is populated with teenagers and young adults, and seeing how you are a young adult yourself, I'd guess you tend to associate with people similar to yourself. It's the cool, edgy thing to do. It's juvanile and rebellious - natural. It's the same reason radical atheism is popular and socialism in America. It's rad and unique! Fuck the system! People grow out of it. There's a reason the Republican party is populated mostly by old people. There's a reason Hitler and Stalin and Mao admired and favored young people for their unbreakable spirit and easily shaped minds. A reason every political party has a youth organization. We're dumbbbb.
I don't think we're 'dumb' i think its rather a question of viewing things differently and lack of experience within most areas. Along with the fact that as a youth you're constantly oppressed by the system and traditions.
You still have old people who believe in ridiculous political ideas, and young people who believe in conservative ones, so i wouldn't generalize everyone...
And it's true. Russia military forces are nothing compared to those the USA or the NATO do have...We could....take Russia down......a few notches.............That's exactly the kind of insanity our media is telling us.
"Russia is not that strong" "Their military is outdated" "They have less nuclear weapons than we can use, so we will win" ::)
We could....take Russia down......a few notches.............That's exactly the kind of insanity our media is telling us.
"Russia is not that strong" "Their military is outdated" "They have less nuclear weapons than we can use, so we will win" ::)
We could....take Russia down......a few notches.............That's exactly the kind of insanity our media is telling us.
"Russia is not that strong" "Their military is outdated" "They have less nuclear weapons than we can use, so we will win" ::)
Everyone who wants a solid understanding of how dirty politics can be, read 'The Confessions of an Economic Hitman'
You cannot win a war against a nuclear power. Even when they only have one warhead from 1960.
Exactly.You cannot win a war against a nuclear power. Even when they only have one warhead from 1960.
That's not how nuclear deterrence works. That's not how war in the time of global politics works.
I think when put between a rock and a hard place nobody would benefit from a war with Russia.You cannot win a war against a nuclear power. Even when they only have one warhead from 1960.
That's not how nuclear deterrence works. That's not how war in the time of global politics works.
I think when put between a rock and a hard place nobody would benefit from a war with Russia.You cannot win a war against a nuclear power. Even when they only have one warhead from 1960.
That's not how nuclear deterrence works. That's not how war in the time of global politics works.
More than that mate.I think when put between a rock and a hard place nobody would benefit from a war with Russia.You cannot win a war against a nuclear power. Even when they only have one warhead from 1960.
That's not how nuclear deterrence works. That's not how war in the time of global politics works.
Yeah, because around 1-2 Billions of people would die.
The western world only makes 12% of the world's population. Many people in Africa will be happy without us.More than that mate.I think when put between a rock and a hard place nobody would benefit from a war with Russia.You cannot win a war against a nuclear power. Even when they only have one warhead from 1960.
That's not how nuclear deterrence works. That's not how war in the time of global politics works.
Yeah, because around 1-2 Billions of people would die.
I think when put between a rock and a hard place nobody would benefit from a war with Russia.You cannot win a war against a nuclear power. Even when they only have one warhead from 1960.
That's not how nuclear deterrence works. That's not how war in the time of global politics works.
Yeah, because around 1-2 Billions of people would die.
The western world only makes 12% of the world's population. Many people in Africa will be happy without us.More than that mate.I think when put between a rock and a hard place nobody would benefit from a war with Russia.You cannot win a war against a nuclear power. Even when they only have one warhead from 1960.
That's not how nuclear deterrence works. That's not how war in the time of global politics works.
Yeah, because around 1-2 Billions of people would die.
How am I a Hippie? :DThe western world only makes 12% of the world's population. Many people in Africa will be happy without us.More than that mate.I think when put between a rock and a hard place nobody would benefit from a war with Russia.You cannot win a war against a nuclear power. Even when they only have one warhead from 1960.
That's not how nuclear deterrence works. That's not how war in the time of global politics works.
Yeah, because around 1-2 Billions of people would die.
Ok now you're just being a Hippy.
Stop defending Russia. We don't want your kind around here.
Russia wouldn't be the only country launching or receiving nuclear warheads....The western world only makes 12% of the world's population. Many people in Africa will be happy without us.More than that mate.I think when put between a rock and a hard place nobody would benefit from a war with Russia.You cannot win a war against a nuclear power. Even when they only have one warhead from 1960.
That's not how nuclear deterrence works. That's not how war in the time of global politics works.
Yeah, because around 1-2 Billions of people would die.
Wars between China and India. Iran-Israel conflicts and proxy wars. Oh, proxy war? You mean like the ones fought between the US and Russia throughout the cold war? Like the war in Ukraine now? Ohhh. That.So there is a danger of a nuclear conflict. And there is a chance that it WONT exterminate most parts of humanity and this is a reason to stay calm?
Because it is a grave danger if there is just the slightest possibility of a nuclear conflict.
He wasn't implying it is changing, he is implying it always has been a danger.Because it is a grave danger if there is just the slightest possibility of a nuclear conflict.
Not really. There's always been a chance of a nuclear conflict. Why should it change now?
I can see where Nipplestockings is coming from. If you were fighting a war with someone then dropping a nuke on them would be the worst idea ever. Cos then they'll drop a nuke on you and then shit will hit the fan. That's why people don't drop nukes. They're a deterrent, meant to prevent the very thing that they are designed for. It's like that kid in your class who thinks he's hard and walks around flexing his muscles but he never actually wants a fight, he just wants to make himself feel powerful.If a country has nothing to lose, nuclear warheads are a viable option.
This.I can see where Nipplestockings is coming from. If you were fighting a war with someone then dropping a nuke on them would be the worst idea ever. Cos then they'll drop a nuke on you and then shit will hit the fan. That's why people don't drop nukes. They're a deterrent, meant to prevent the very thing that they are designed for. It's like that kid in your class who thinks he's hard and walks around flexing his muscles but he never actually wants a fight, he just wants to make himself feel powerful.If a country has nothing to lose, nuclear warheads are a viable option.
But if they were losing a war would they not want to limit the damage? If Russia lost a war against America they wouldn't Nuke the USA just for the sake of it. Cos then America would make sure that Russia would be left in such a state that it would never be able to recover again. Losing a war isn't the end of all hope.Sometimes diplomacy doesn't come to a peaceful resolution.
You're right. Sometimes it does not but if any country committed acts genocide towards another country then there would be a huge consequences. Both in the eyes of the international community such as the United Nations and in the eyes of the general public.Living organisms do amazing things if they feel threatened.
An impossibility? Of course not. Tomorrow some terrorist could hijack a nuke in Russia and destroy Washington, and we'd be forced to retaliate. Tomorrow aliens could land on earth and kill every single one of us with a single wave of heat radiation. Tomorrow Jesus himself could come down to earth and begin the rapture. Possible, sure. I'm open for all possibilities. Realism is more attractive to me as of now, though. I'll read comic books for the fun shit.Hey man I'm glad you want to see the 2nd coming of Christ and all that but that has nothing to do with the argument at hand. Mind explaining why the scenario is just as unlikely as "Tomorrow aliens could land on earth and kill every single one of us with a single wave of heat radiation" or do you just wish to present your opinion as absolute truth?
I think what he is trying to see that all of these things are not impossible but are improbable which is the same for a global conflict.But he is not presenting any kind of information to back up his claim. He is simply claiming. If he wants me to take him seriously he is going to have to convince me, rather than referring to videogames, sci-fi and religion.
Fun fact: Jews don't believe that Christ was the savior that was promised to them. They are still waiting for their savior to this very day.
I don't think that he needs evidence to back up a claim that it is unlikely that aliens will invade tomorrow....Wow you're pretty daft mate. Where in the past 2 pages have you gathered that we're debating about the probability of an alien invasion?
No need to get personal, it's only a friendly discussion.No, you claimed something completely non-sensical, off topic, out of context and irrelevant. You weren't helping anybody by assuming we were debating about the probability of an alien invasion.
You responded to his comment and I then explained what he meant by it. You told me that he needed evidence to back up his claim? And yet what he stated in his original comment didn't need backing up with evidence.
But I'm not. The alien invasion is only an example of something that could happen but is unlikely to. Nobody here is claiming that an alien invasion is going to happen. We're just likening the probability of it happening with the probability of a global, full scale, nuclear conflict happening.You mean nobody but you
You mean nobody but you+1
fact: Jews don't believe that Christ was the savior that was promised to them. They are still waiting for their savior to this very day.
Spoiler(https://i.imgur.com/fVqAMaA.jpg)[close]
Spoilerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AqE_yT1XuM[close]
http://youtu.be/yDIlQ3_lsKE
There's a difference between the two.
This thread is just waaaay too pro-ukraine.
It's like we are all pretending a man named Udo Ulfkotte doesn't exist.
Glory to the Azov battalionSpoiler(https://histoireetsociete.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/4-sebastopol-marine-russe-cassini14.jpg)[close]
Meanwhile in the Donbass region of evil and hatredl (http://ria.ru/photolents/20141013/1026557400.html)
Desert Thunda, did you even watch my video? There's a very interesting part about Russian soldiers with swastikas and giving Nazi salutes.
The Azov Batallion doesn't even represent 0.01% of the Armed Forces in the Donbass. They're also nearly all locals and Russian-speaking.
"ukraine is of nazi"
"no, russia is nazi"
"nou"
Desert Thunda, did you even watch my video? There's a very interesting part about Russian soldiers with swastikas and giving Nazi salutes.
The Azov Batallion doesn't even represent 0.01% of the Armed Forces in the Donbass. They're also nearly all locals and Russian-speaking.
Lol, you're right. I forgot to recalculate to percentage. Right, 1%. Yay.
Saying this is a Nazi versus Non-Nazi conflict, however, remains bullshit.
Why is Russia more worried about 'potential' political support for what they see as Neo-Nazis while, for example, not even giving as much as a comment on the fact that Front National had 1/4th of the French EU vote, a party which honorary leader is publicly very anti-Semitic. Probably because Front National is a good friend of Putin?
Russia hasn't made a single effort trying to stop the fighting, radicalizing more and more people (into both sides) and further destabilizing Ukraine's political future. Volunteers can cross the Russian border without a problem, and rebel wounded are taken care of in Russia. How can they say they are not supporting the separatists while they make no effort in trying to stop their forces from growing?
Having said that; our flirtation with an interim government that is partially comprised of possible neo-nazis was a slap in the face to common sense.
while running on an anti-immigration platform, isn't running on an openly neo-nazi one.
During Maidan the right-wingers were not stupid in their approach to co-opting the struggle. Then the clashes with the cops started and Right Sector took position at the barricades at Hrushevskoho Street, controlling who was allowed to participate and who not, and soon after that they controlled most of the other barricades.
They made a checkpoint to control any and all activity that goes in and out of Maidan. Guess which street the checkpoint got placed? Yep, Hrushevskoho street.
RS and Svoboda units were walking around in big groups armed with pistols, axes and other weapons, beating up people who didnt agree with them.
Right Sector are fanboys of the UPA. UPA as you probably know was an Ukrainian insurgent army that killed and tortured 100,000 Polish and burned their villages down. Their goal was to wipe the whole area clean of all polish influence. Nothing good can come from supporting these boneheads.
http://rt.com/news/156532-odessa-ukraine-brutal-attack/are you kidding me?can you find something more objective source than RT?
So? Communist parties usually love the Red Army and the list of their war crimes is considerably longer. Are all communist parties the rooth of all evil now? The UPA did bad shit, but it's not the bad shit they are remembered for. Just like no-one likes to remember the bad shit done by any group one might like. Russians don't like to acknowledge warcrimes committed by the Soviet Union, Americans don't like to acknowledge war crimes committed by them in Vietnam, and so on. Even you are guilty of this, as you pretty much refused to acknowledge the criminal actions done by the Anarchists in 1930 Spain and came up with a list of excuses why they weren't so bad.The main difference between the Red Army and the UPA is that the Red Army never supported any kind of genocide or mass-scale killing of people on the sole basis of their nationality, phenotype, culture, or religion. In Spain, the Anarchists never did something like that either. The UPA, however, did this:
They were not allowed to organize by the right-wingers, the only way they could get in was by pretending to be apolitical. Furthermore, Ukrainian leftists should have been at the forefront of the Maidan rather than giving radio interviews about how upset they were that right-wing elements were at Maidan - or worse, calling for internal actions that would have split the movement apart. Now the fascists will be able to say they fought and died to overthrow a corrupt "democracy" while the leftist so-called radicals decided to sit it out.Are you saying that the left wing should have helped the Ukrainian fascists (and their chocolate lover friends) to overthrow a corrupt but democratically-elected government?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/democracy-murdered-by-protest-ukraine-falls-to-intrigue-and-violence/5370317
The main difference between the Red Army and the UPA is that the Red Army never supported any kind of genocide or mass-scale killing of people on the sole basis of their nationality, phenotype, culture, or religion. In Spain, the Anarchists never did something like that either. The UPA, however, did this:
There's a qualitative difference? Are you for real? So if I kill someone based on his race, instead of his class or nationality, it's worse? It's besides the point. Killing someone is bad. I don't think Germans really cared for the fact they weren't shot because for their race.No it's not besides the point. It's the point. Killing someone is not bad in itself. It depends on the motive. Killing an innocent is not the same thing as killing a criminal. Killing someone because of his nationality is barbaric, but it's not the same thing as killing someone because of his phenotype. The latter is even more barbaric.
Right sector isn't a neo-nazi organisation, unlike what Russian media say.
Whether they have even a fraction of the political ideology is totally irrelevant.
No, indeed, it's much more common sense to leave a potential ally to rot because part of the opposition is made out of 'possible neo-nazis'. Let's blindly ignore the fact that these guys have been in the parliament for decades, or that they have been democratically elected, or that even the president of the United Jewish Community of Ukraine said Svoboda has clearly shifted from the far-right to the center.
Neither are any political parties in Ukraine.
Just want to set things straight. Communism is equally evil as Nazism, saying that left wing extremism is less violent or evil than right wing extremism is naive.
Furthermore, Max, the USSR genocided 10 million Ukrainians in the early 1930s, purged their entire officer corps in the late 1930s, not even mentioning their atrocities in the civil war...
Since you want to compare with the Red Army, i can put forth evidence that its 'Nazi' counterpart the Wehrmacht committed a lesser amount of warcrimes.
This discussion is simply irrelevant...
Just want to set things straight. Communism is equally evil as Nazism, saying that left wing extremism is less violent or evil than right wing extremism is naive.
Furthermore, Max, the USSR genocided 10 million Ukrainians in the early 1930s, purged their entire officer corps in the late 1930s, not even mentioning their atrocities in the civil war...
Since you want to compare with the Red Army, i can put forth evidence that its 'Nazi' counterpart the Wehrmacht committed a lesser amount of warcrimes.
This discussion is simply irrelevant...
So the Anarchists did not kill priests because they were Priests and the Communists did not purge intelectuals and nobility because they were intellectuals and nobility?
I'm sorry, I just don't understand where you put the line, and why you even do that.
are you kidding me?can you find something more objective source than RT?
Just want to set things straight. Communism is equally evil as Nazism, saying that left wing extremism is less violent or evil than right wing extremism is naive.In Indonesia in 1965-1966 more than 500 000 communists were murdered in one of the biggest mass killings of the 20th century, with the complicity of the CIA. Can I say that American "democratic" capitalism is "equally evil as Nazism"? No, for two main reasons. The first reason is that they continued to defend some kind of civil liberties, and the second reason is that they were not primarily motivated by racism. The difference between them and Nazi Germany is huge.
Furthermore, Max, the USSR genocided 10 million Ukrainians in the early 1930s, purged their entire officer corps in the late 1930s, not even mentioning their atrocities in the civil war...
Since you want to compare with the Red Army, i can put forth evidence that its 'Nazi' counterpart the Wehrmacht committed a lesser amount of warcrimes.
This discussion is simply irrelevant...
Its a bit of a double edged sword if you see it like that but i understand it. Its good to be critical, but i wish people would apply that logic to western news agencies aswel.
Besides the point but theres some great people working there, one that comes to mind is Abby Martin.
The Holodomor happened, at the time the USSR was wanted in the league of nations, so the West turned a blind eye. Western reporters even went to Ukraine and reported that everything was fine (knowing they were being led on a propaganda tour).
But you're being very selective. One of the largest mass killing of humans in history was the famines of British India and Ireland. Why aren't the British held to the same level of accountability as Stalin or Mao? Both were government induced famines.
Because that was colonialism. That is different. You barely hear India about it.
MaxLam, saying the Holodomor didn't occur because of one historian is far-fetched.Because you have decided so? Even if one million nazis signed a petition to oppose the work of Mark Tauger, they would still be wrong because they would have nothing to disprove Tauger's claims, for his claims are based on strong archive evidences. Moreover Tauger has also worked on the famine in India, so he is quite an authority on this matter.
I think we went past the subject. Back the UPA, the fact remains that people do not support the UPA because they committed crimes. Had the massacres never occurred, support for the UPA would have been larger, not smaller. And this is a vital element. You can say one crime is more worse then the other, but from someone else's view point it might not.Of course it might not. From Hitler's point of view killing Jews was a good thing. Should I endorse Hitler's point of view? Should I excuse him? No. Because that's not a "vital element" to know what was Hitler's point of view. This guy was a degenerated criminal, his thought was wrong, his deeds were wrong. And if some Ukrainians inhabitants praise the actions of a fascist organization, they must be blamed. A lot of people suffered in Ukraine under Nazi yoke. There can be no excuse for forgetting that.
How do you explain the crimes committed by the NVKD in the Soviet border lines? None of these people were killed because of their nationality or political viewpoints?We all know that the Red Army committed some war crimes, and such actions have greatly tainted the history of the Soviet Union and Communism in general. However there is a slight but important difference between killing someone for his political ideas, or because he is a prisoner, and killing someone because of his so-called "race", or even nationality. The Germans who lived in Moscow, and Soviet citizens from German descent, were not killed. The Soviet government had no intention to kill all Germans, or to kill people just because they were Germans. UPA's actions, however, prove that killing Poles was not something accidental for them, it was rather one of their objectives.
Just want to set things straight. Communism is equally evil as Nazism, saying that left wing extremism is less violent or evil than right wing extremism is naive.
We're young bydanders from western countries.+1 Good sir
Are you trying to say that RT is lying and that Ukrainian fascists didn't set fire to the trade union building?If take literally like you said - than yes, off course. They provide this material like "bloody ukrainian fascists from RS came to Odessa special for burning down holy harmless russians", which is lie.
Historian Mark B.Tauger has proved that the Soviet government never tried to kill millions of Ukrainian for whatever reason.Reasons can be easily founded, if know what happens before and after the Holodomor. Btw, author of term 'genocide' define Holodomor as it.
About the Ukraine crisis - discussing the actual conflict and its week to week happenings instead of its ideology would be fun. We're young bystanders from western countries. Pretending we know everything about the motives and politics of the conflict is pathetic. Let's just discuss the war at hand.
About the Ukraine crisis - discussing the actual conflict and its week to week happenings instead of its ideology would be fun. We're young bystanders from western countries. Pretending we know everything about the motives and politics of the conflict is pathetic. Let's just discuss the war at hand.
But then what's the point? "today 5 people got killed", where's the discussion in that? War is about politics not about fighting.
If take literally like you said - than yes, off course. They provide this material like "bloody ukrainian fascists from RS came to Odessa special for burning down holy harmless russians", which is lie.
He implies it.
About the Ukraine crisis - discussing the actual conflict and its week to week happenings instead of its ideology would be fun. We're young bystanders from western countries. Pretending we know everything about the motives and politics of the conflict is pathetic. Let's just discuss the war at hand.
But then what's the point? "today 5 people got killed", where's the discussion in that? War is about politics not about fighting.
Take a look at the page count of this thread. Just for a second. What is it? What have we been discussing for over 200 pages? Politics. The ideology behind the conflict. While I do enjoy politics, it's difficult to take the discussion seriously when nobody has any clue what they're talking about. We've discussed it to death already and at this point we're just beating a dead horse. Let's move forward. Talking about a war is not reporting on death counts. Troop movements, campaigns, operations, tactics, strategy, logistics. Why not discuss that? It's interesting. This ideological shit is getting us nowhere.
Only to get betrayed and totally buttfucked by the Russians.Sounds like a typical in Dutchland for me
Only to get betrayed and totally buttfucked by the Russians.Sounds like a typical in Dutchland for me
omg that was awesome. My dick is hard from that video. Thanks duuring.Separatist forces moving towards Mariupol.Spoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8eA4RgN4ho#t=204[close]
Perfect time to move with this fog.omg that was awesome. My dick is hard from that video. Thanks duuring.Separatist forces moving towards Mariupol.Spoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8eA4RgN4ho#t=204[close]
It's written on this old JS-3A lot of an old stuff used there now
They must have found it in a museum.
Spoiler(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9ErJcJ-dUSDM5ScCSW5NQLKtX0AjGUOHyGe3aJdmTuJa0KiD5)[close]
4/10 at best
#StrongUkraine
Love this man.Spoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ORHkB89vk#t=7902[close]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ORHkB89vkif only i spoke communist
I can lul russia can stfuSpoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frs2img.memecdn.com%2Ffreedom_o_1234839.jpg&hash=f28a1f0a3b5393ec89d697f89afcdbb9b57d6a3b)[close]
I can lul russia can stfuSpoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frs2img.memecdn.com%2Ffreedom_o_1234839.jpg&hash=f28a1f0a3b5393ec89d697f89afcdbb9b57d6a3b)[close]
You can be fat merican
lies economy has grown under Putin and he assures in 2 years the world will need more energy. You cannot stop us only delay us.lol, what? didn't you heard about the latest depreciation of the ruble?
lies economy has grown under Putin and he assures in 2 years the world will need more energy. You cannot stop us only delay us.lol, what? didn't you heard about the latest depreciation of the ruble?
http://mfd.ru/currency/?currency=USD¤cyCompare=&from=01.11.2013&till=
Ruble became the weakest currency in the world, they lost like 48% of value since start of the year, it is even more than our hryvnia for now(we on a second place) ::)
Yes, weird how it keeps magically appearing in their Santa trucks, right? I'm so glad the Christmas sprit is so strong there that everyone gets what they want on their lists. Old sergei just wants a new optic for his SVD. Poor old man's been using his gun for years and hasn't been rewarded with an upgrade. Little Ivan hasn't lubed his AKM charging handle for months! He just needs some grease from kind uncle Putin and he'll be good to go. All they wish for is a Christmas miracle. Just go to sleep on Christmas eve and all your wishes will be fulfilled in the morning! Za Putina.
Seriously, is there any nation that became more corrupt and less free since joining the EU, and at the same time, is there any nation in alliance with Russia that's becoming more free?Bulgaria had to cancel their pipeline project with Russia through the black sea.
Who is more free? The Greek people?(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FCHVvWfV0WnJ6M%2Fgiphy.gif&hash=a1dc61758a5e824cdd391cc01f64389ed0fbf5a3)
Who is more free? The Greek people?
I was talking about freedom, and I doubt that the Greek people can be considered free as long as its policies are dictated by the Troika. I also doubt that Greece was the only country responsible for the crisis.Who is more free? The Greek people?
Lol, are you really insinuating that Greece's economic demise was the fault of any country but their own? Grease pls pay debtns
Seriously, is there any nation that became more corrupt and less free since joining the EU, and at the same time, is there any nation in alliance with Russia that's becoming more free?Bulgaria had to cancel their pipeline project with Russia through the black sea.
Instead there will probably be another project between Russia and Turkey.
The EU happens to be a power bloke
The EU happens to be a power bloke
+1
The EU is a very different power-bloc though, as there's no great 'central' power that overpowers all other members. It has a parliament that makes laws, it has elections that elect said parliament.The EU is built on a core-periphery model with Germany at the core, followed closely by France, and countries like Greece at the periphery. If Ukraine were to enter the EU, that would be one more country at the periphery. I would be glad to have Ukrainian slaves though. And if they manage to enter NATO in maybe 10 years, we would have more cannon fodder too.
You don't want to involve the system in the discussion because you don't like it?No I was saying that it's not relevant to discuss the ideas behind the creation of the EU, not because it stinks, and it does, but because the EU has evolved since then and thus there is a difference between the "design" and what it became.
What other countries are part of the periphery of the EU? The Baltic countries did exceptionally well since joining the EU, just like Finland, Poland, Bulgaria and Romania. Greece's economy has never been about export anyway, and has mostly centered around tourism and shipping.PIIGS.
Or Greece could not have spend ludicrous amounts of money.Actually if you want to make money you need to spend money. This is the basis of capitalism. So unless Greece spent money for useless stuff, there is no reason to blame Greece for spending money. We know that the country was and remain somewhat corrupt, but that's not enough to provoke a crisis.
Quote from: DuuringOr Greece could not have spend ludicrous amounts of money.Actually if you want to make money you need to spend money. This is the basis of capitalism. So unless Greece spent money for useless stuff, there is no reason to blame Greece for spending money. We know that the country was and remain somewhat corrupt, but that's not enough to provoke a crisis.
Are you serious?Of course. Only simple-minded people actually believe that the Eurozone crisis happened because of Greek public expanditures.
So unless Greece spent money for useless stuff.
People not paying taxes is a totally different problem for it's not a public expanditure. However, indeed, it contributes to the increase of public debt.
but according to some novorussian twitter postslol
Explain the parallels, Augy. I'm curious here.
All I know is that pro-Russian pages on Facebook absolutely love posting pictures of armed separatists with the description "Donetsk Airport" next to it, even though Donetsk airport is still in the hands of the Ukrainian army.
Speaking of which, apparently the separatists mounted another attack at the airport about 2 hours ago. Haven't seen any side claiming victory yet.
Explain the parallels, Augy. I'm curious here.
Explain the parallels, Augy. I'm curious here.
Putin's aggression now is very similar to America / German aggression against Serbia in 1999 and the seperation of Kosovo.
All I know is that pro-Russian pages on Facebook absolutely love posting pictures of armed separatists with the description "Donetsk Airport" next to it, even though Donetsk airport is still in the hands of the Ukrainian army.
Speaking of which, apparently the separatists mounted another attack at the airport about 2 hours ago. Haven't seen any side claiming victory yet.
Anything so far?
that's a difference of 26 years, 11 months and 9 days.
Oh, it's probably wrong. I suck at math. Let's just round it off to 27 years.It's correct lolz 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Oh, it's probably wrong. I suck at math. Let's just round it off to 27 years.It's correct lolz 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Crimea never had a wish to secede.
It is quite funny that Duuring says this because exactly the same table was posted 100 sites ago.Crimea never had a wish to secede.
The desire for separation is consistent with the United Nations Development Programme, which in Crimea conducted series of polls about possible referendum on joining Russia with a sample size of 1200.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs17.postimg.org%2Fyklnabiq7%2FUNDPReferendum.png&hash=73802afc5bbb32d9fcee1a0781e356063dc9d146)
Apart from which Crimea voted a President (prior to his exile) who ran on a platform for annexation to Russia back in the 90s at a time when Russia under Yeltsin wanted nothing to do with an annexation.
Apart from which Crimea voted a President (prior to his exile) who ran on a platform for annexation to Russia back in the 90s at a time when Russia under Yeltsin wanted nothing to do with an annexation.
Oh, no, you see, that's áfter the entire affair of the ousting of Yakunovich and an intense propaganda campaign by Russian media. I'm talking of a show of support for secession before all that.
Reports suggest up to 15,000 supporters of Ukraine’s President Yanukovych have gathered in front of the country’s parliament in Kyiv.
The rally is thought to be an attempt to counter the huge pro-Europe demonstration in Independence Square.
Strict security measures are said to be in place, with demonstrators apparently protected by two tiers of police office. Special identification cards are reportedly needed to join the rally.
Yanukovych’s strongest support comes from the widely pro-Russia south and east of Ukraine.
“The aim of our demonstration is to support Yanukovych and for him to remain president,” says one supporter from eastern Ukraine. “He gave us a normal life.”
Also a Yanukovych supporter, Elena Obelets from Kiev told euronews that she thinks political talks could put an end to the protests:
“We came here to support our president through these hard times when our society is divided,” she explained. “We are asking our opponents to use political solutions to move people off the streets.”
Although Yanukovych did not sign a recent partnership deal with the EU, his supporters claim they are pro-Europe and have adopted the rally slogan “building Europe in Ukraine.”
A president who was ousted from power within a year by the parliament.
And I'm sure that if we would put Kosovo into a vote in the 1950s we would have the same result. The point is that there was nothing, apart from polling, that showed there was a wish to secede.
The only party to run with a re-integration with Russia-plan got like 2-4% of the vote. If the wish to secede was so strong, then why didn't they bother to show it?
Kosovo (and their civilians) were also under direct assault, and quite a lot of people actually died. NATO intervened and stabilized the situation, but the region wasn't annexed by the USA as far as I know. Kosovo has since then began negotiations with Serbia, and has actually recognized minority rights (of Serb-inhabitated parts of Kosovo). Her current Freedom rating (Freedom House) is currently 4.5 (1 being best, 7 being worst), which without a doubt isn't very good, but it's still better then South Ossetia (6.5) and Russia (5.5). Most importantly, it has improved since 2010 wheres Russia has gone down the slope since 1999. Truly, I'd just love to know how exactly the Kosovo-situation is comparable to Crimea and Eastern Ukraine?
Regardless of the population's wish to secede, it is not the right of Russia to invade the country and liberate Crimea in breach of international law and completely independent of Kieven authority, with no excuse at all other than that "da people want to be us". If the region of Holstein conducted a poll and found that the majority of its citizens wanted to be apart of Denmark and not Germany, would it be right for Danish armies to roll in and annex the territory? No, it would be an act of war. It's entirely undemocratic and unlawful to forcefully liberate a region based on loosely gathered polling data which doesn't actually hold any official ground.
They weren't treated like that but it was demanded.
Regardless of the population's wish to secede, it is not the right of Russia to invade the country and liberate Crimea in breach of international law and completely independent of Kieven authority, with no excuse at all other than that "da people want to be us". If the region of Holstein conducted a poll and found that the majority of its citizens wanted to be apart of Denmark and not Germany, would it be right for Danish armies to roll in and annex the territory? No, it would be an act of war. It's entirely undemocratic and unlawful to forcefully liberate a region based on loosely gathered polling data which doesn't actually hold any official ground.
blah blah blah. /fuck to give.
Ukraine isn't even a real country and even with the rubble losing value due to the energy market it's still more boss then stupid Ukraine.
There is more important stuff going on in Russia than this Ukraine thing:Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Falexander.holbreich.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F06%2Fnicholaus1.jpg&hash=e314671a23e4ed540e851e89b5ec10c8a8258f64)[close]
There is more important stuff going on in Russia than this Ukraine thing:Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Falexander.holbreich.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F06%2Fnicholaus1.jpg&hash=e314671a23e4ed540e851e89b5ec10c8a8258f64)[close]
It's time for 1912 borders
There is more important stuff going on in Russia than this Ukraine thing:Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Falexander.holbreich.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F06%2Fnicholaus1.jpg&hash=e314671a23e4ed540e851e89b5ec10c8a8258f64)[close]
It's time for 1912 borders
Wait who?
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1508022_446306275517251_2830191890869588279_n.jpg?oh=287272b8a2212b328937c04833415931&oe=54FA2275&__gda__=1429484270_b0745adae8e40c297d7f00c505b389d5)Pretty sure its the flag of the Black army from the Russian Civil War
Isn't that one of those anarchist flags?
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1508022_446306275517251_2830191890869588279_n.jpg?oh=287272b8a2212b328937c04833415931&oe=54FA2275&__gda__=1429484270_b0745adae8e40c297d7f00c505b389d5)Pretty sure its the flag of the Black army from the Russian Civil War
Isn't that one of those anarchist flags?
Duuring iz of facism
I've always had an interest in Cossacks due to their role in the liberation of my country in the Napoleonic wars. I guess I just got a bit carried away?Duuring iz of facism
Hmmmmhmm.
I've always had an interest in Cossacks due to their role in the liberation of my country in the Napoleonic wars. I guess I just got a bit carried away?Duuring iz of facism
Hmmmmhmm.
Just a 'lil bit
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1508022_446306275517251_2830191890869588279_n.jpg?oh=287272b8a2212b328937c04833415931&oe=54FA2275&__gda__=1429484270_b0745adae8e40c297d7f00c505b389d5)Motto on the flag are the last entries of The Niceno–Constantinopolitan Creed:
Isn't that one of those anarchist flags?
If they wanted to be christian why did they rebel against their rightful Tzar and Saint?
Which is it Obama?!
Poroshenko attended at the unity march against terrorism and extremism in Paris. I'm wondering why they did not invite the Taliban, ISIS and the al-Nusra Front as well.
Poroshenko is a democratically elected president and Commander-In-Chief of the Ukrainian forces, who has made efforts to not only fight corruption but also to stop the war in Eastern Ukraine in a peaceful way, leading to a number of politicians and senior military officers criticizing him. Frankly, your post only shows how little you understand of the situation.
The Russian presence might be considered rather ironic considering protesters with #JeSuisCharlie-signs were arrested in Russia. You can say what you want - that did not happen in Ukraine. While Ukraine is trying to democratize, Russia is heading the other way at full speed.
This is terrorism:Spoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItWaRqtMu6A[close]
And this is terrorism as well:Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftopinfopost.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F11%2Fisis-army-700x430.png&hash=f5eb345c1eee478b94d1ea8f000190d6c8193c18)[close]
That's why I compared them.
I don't know if Poroshenko ordered them to do this but we should consider he is an extremly corrupt politician who owns several anti-Russian news magazines. His wealth contains 1.6 billion dollars btw.
Oh, and listen to this:Spoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHWHqj8g7Bk[close]
Remember: These are his own people.
"I very much doubt that we could have hit anything as far away as Volnovakha from our positions," Donetsk separatist co-leader Andrei Purgin told AFP by telephone.
"You can see on the map that it is very far away from our nearest roadblock."
Donetsk deputy separatist forces' commander Eduard Basurin also denied rebel involvement.
"No one fired at anything," he told Russia's RIA Novosti state news agency.
The insurgents and Kiev frequently blame each other for stray rocket and artillery fire that kills and wounds civilians on an almost daily basis.
Of course Ukraine did it. They fired a rocket at a bus from miiiiiles away, realized it hit the bus, entered Separatist territory, somehow managed to drag away a half-destroyed bus away without the Separatists noticing anything or the Ukrainians losing a man and then made put the video in scene just to have a another piece of bad news about the Separatists that nobody but them really cares about anyway.Their main version probably is that bus was shot by drunk UA soldiers at blockpost
It's clear as day.
In the end I really hope there will be a peace that respects the right for self-determination.When Russia respects Ukraine's right for self-determination as a sovereign European state, possible future member of EU and NATO - it will be ;)
So the right for self-determination works fine for everyone except for Russians because their country is already big enough?Have you forgotten that this all started when Russia annexed the Crimea? This whole thing has fuck all to do with self-determination. It's just an excuse for a power hungry, ego centric wanker to get more power than he needs, or for that matter deserves.
Under these circumstances the USA should give parts of their territory to Mexico, because they don't have as much land as the Americans.
No, this all started when a democratically elected president got overthrew by a mob.
Not France. Sorry. Not in the USA either. And I doubt that it was legal in Ukraine.
"However, it is not clear that the hasty February 22 vote upholds constitutional guidelines, which call for a review of the case by Ukraine's Constitutional Court and a three-fourths majority vote by the Verkhovna Rada -- i.e., 338 lawmakers.
Pro-Yanukovych lawmakers may also argue that under the 1996 constitution, it should have been the current acting prime minister, Serhiy Arbuzov, who assumed power after Yanukovych's removal."
I said that the removal of Yanukovych wasn't legal. I also said that there is no "law allowing such actions" in civilized democratic countries. And I proved it.
No, I answerd to Sven who said: "Actually he was overthrown by his government because he didn't do his job properly. I think you'll find an article in most democratic nations where there is a law allowing such actions."
I said that there is no law in civilized democratic nations allowing what happened in Ukraine. I also said that there was no law in Ukraine itself allowing what happened.
The procedure exists, and thus lawful. Whether the procedure was done exactly according to the law, thát we can argue about.If it's not done according to the law, it's not lawful. And moreover there was no majority of 3/4 in the Parliament, so even a week later the Parliament couldn't have legally removed Yanukovyich. Yanu fled to Russia when he felt that he was close to be unlawfully deposed. This, in itself, shouldn't have happened in a democratic country. Moreover it's not because a government is forced to flee that this government has abdicated its authority.
Quote from: DuuringThe procedure exists, and thus lawful. Whether the procedure was done exactly according to the law, thát we can argue about.If it's not done according to the law, it's not lawful. And moreover there was no majority of 3/4 in the Parliament, so even a week later the Parliament couldn't have legally removed Yanukovyich. Yanu fled to Russia when he felt that he was close to be unlawfully deposed. This, in itself, shouldn't have happened in a democratic country. Moreover it's not because a government is forced to flee that this government has abdicated its authority.
If there were armed paramilitarys who wanted to kill me I would leave the land as well. It's better for the healthiness.
EDIT: My bad the Rada was guarded. I must have been thinking about the Presidential residence.
The impeachment procedure wasn't followed to the letter due to the protracted time required for such proceedings. Additionally 'constitutional' grounds where not given for the impeachment since the removal of a President could only be done due to; resignation, impeachment, death, and an inability to continue due to health reasons. 3 of those didn't happen and impeachment requires the following under article 111;Spoiler
Article 111
The President of Ukraine may be removed from office by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by the procedure of impeachment, in the event that he or she commits state treason or other crime. The issue of the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is initiated by the majority of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
To conduct the investigation, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine establishes a special temporary investigatory commission whose composition includes a special procurator and special investigators.
The conclusions and proposals of the temporary investigatory commission are considered at a meeting of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
For cause, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, by no less than two-thirds of its constitutional composition, adopts a decision on the accusation of the President of Ukraine.
The decision on the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is adopted by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by no less than three-quarters of its constitutional composition, after the review of the case by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine and the receipt of its opinion on the observance of the constitutional procedure of investigation and consideration of the case of impeachment, and the receipt of the opinion of the Supreme Court of Ukraine to the effect that the acts, of which the President of Ukraine is accused, contain elements of state treason or other crime.[close]
Also I am unsure if the selection of a new chairman was constitutional. I would be interested to know who was absent for the voting and whether it was a major chunk of the Party of Regions.
The Euromaidan argues something along the lines that the constitution can only be changed by the people and since the uprising is considered a manifestation of the will of the people the constitution can be changed/altered especially given the loophole of the President's absence.
In regards to the party of regions distancing itself from Yanukovych; it is only natural for the party to blame its leaders rather than assume an equal measure of blame so its party members can still remain relevant in political affairs and domestic life and to avoid some of the serious heat which was being thrown at them. Within hours after the truce both sides blamed the other of betraying the truce. Additionally when it came to the truce Right Sector did not agree to it full stop which likely caused further escalation in the streets.
http://web.archive.org/web/20140221070249/http://www.theinsider.ua/politics/530544dc3bd1e/#
Yanukovych may have needed to go but I dare say that a democracy generally negates the need for violent armed uprising while the events of February have a lot of the markings of being defined as a Coup d'état. There is obviously no real international mechanism that prohibits or condones this.
In the end a revolution or coup is legitimized by its own success, which is usually cemented with recognition by other states. Thus all is fair in love and war.
Most of the Arab countries are or where dictatorships or had extremely limited democratic options.
Live long and prosper.Most of the Arab countries are or where dictatorships or had extremely limited democratic options.
We prefer the Jordanian model of Democracy, Abdullah's legacy to us.
Live long and prosper.Most of the Arab countries are or where dictatorships or had extremely limited democratic options.
We prefer the Jordanian model of Democracy, Abdullah's legacy to us.
A revolution were the entire parliament is exactly the same as before the 'revolution' is hardly one.
Faces of the "russian" worldSpoiler"Givi", "Abhaz", "Mongol", "Motorolla"
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7V1ScOIgAATeMl.jpg:large)[close]
Btw, same camo as ISIS useslooks like both got it in same russian shopSpoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.inquisitr.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F01%2FAbu-Saad-al-D%C4%81ghist%C4%81ni.jpg&hash=e69a0b82e8fbb83b78af7fb03bce6f370fe1fd50)[close]
In the vote of the approval of Yatsenyuk government, only 33 were not present, or 13% of the entire Rada. Even if they were all present and had all voted against, it still would have carried.
Besides, the 'political makeup' can be changed because MP's have the right to switch parties or form their own - Theirs seats are their own. Of course, this happened in great numbers, and in thart regard we can call it a revolution because it means 'rapid political change', but yet again calling this a 'coup' is ignoring the democratic and legal lines the entire 'coup' followed regarding the creation of the government.
That isn't Russian camo. That's actually just a green windbreaker that I could buy at any outdoors store lol.It's Gorka-3, so it is a russian uniform, however it could be bought in stores indeed.
Fascist Yatsenyuk? I see you are using the Russian definition now.
"Fascist (Noun) - Someone who is considered an enemy of holy and peace-loving Russia".
Fascist Yatsenyuk? I see you are using the Russian definition now.
"Fascist (Noun) - Someone who is considered an enemy of holy and peace-loving Russia".
Plenty of Fascists in Russia as well, but the Russian media turns a blind eye to them most of them time.
So apparently a few days ago fascist Yatsenyuk spoke about the "Soviet invasion of Ukraine and Germany" (during WWII) on a German TV channel.
1. Nazi Germany invaded the USSR, not the contrary.1. He was refers to 1945 and later probably, about Group of Soviet Occupation Forces in Germany
2. Ukraine was part of the USSR. Therefore the USSR couldn't invade Ukraine.
Anyone who disagrees with this is a fascist.
Rampant communism must be stopped in the US...Socialist Republic of America incoming if we don't kill more brown people... :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-AixouHbvIic%2FUqkaePmjTTI%2FAAAAAAAAC3I%2F3cSXgD796LE%2Fs1600%2F1456135_10153632267795515_515423970_n.jpg&hash=7340000144f2472ee220838f7f82d42d0f510278)[close]
Why not?redkorea is a communist
Can't let Germs have all the stuff.
Rampant communism must be stopped in the US...Socialist Republic of America incoming if we don't kill more brown people... :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-AixouHbvIic%2FUqkaePmjTTI%2FAAAAAAAAC3I%2F3cSXgD796LE%2Fs1600%2F1456135_10153632267795515_515423970_n.jpg&hash=7340000144f2472ee220838f7f82d42d0f510278)[close]
You're fucking stupid.
Poland was owned by Germany at that point.I'll take satire for 500, Trebeck
Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union. Ukraine Isn't a real country and wasn't a real country in the 20's Russia was just taking it's shit back.Rampant communism must be stopped in the US...Socialist Republic of America incoming if we don't kill more brown people... :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-AixouHbvIic%2FUqkaePmjTTI%2FAAAAAAAAC3I%2F3cSXgD796LE%2Fs1600%2F1456135_10153632267795515_515423970_n.jpg&hash=7340000144f2472ee220838f7f82d42d0f510278)[close]
You're fucking stupid.
Historically speaking, no, that's not true at all. More people have benefited from a capitalist system than from a communist or fascist system. Of course, this isn't saying much because the number of people who've suffered under capitalism is innumerable, but that's certainly not to say that the other two were better. I think at this point in history we can safely conclude that despite its flaws, capitalism yields more fruit than its alternatives. Obviously a better system would be preferable, but from what the world has been through, neither communism nor fascism is capable of functioning as a successful alternative.
Historically speaking, no, that's not true at all. More people have benefited from a capitalist system than from a communist or fascist system. Of course, this isn't saying much because the number of people who've suffered under capitalism is innumerable, but that's certainly not to say that the other two were better. I think at this point in history we can safely conclude that despite its flaws, capitalism yields more fruit than its alternatives. Obviously a better system would be preferable, but from what the world has been through, neither communism nor fascism is capable of functioning as a successful alternative.That would mean capitalism is the lesser evil and I would never chose that.
You sure are opinionated for a person who hasn't even attended university yet.I am going to university at the moment. Nonetheless this does not have anything to do with the political education of a person.
You sure are opinionated for a person who hasn't even attended university yet.I am going to university at the moment. Nonetheless this does not have anything to do with the political education of a person.
That would mean capitalism is the lesser evil and I would never chose that.
But I wasn't referring to the economic system anyway. I think the USA for example work quite well and the people more or less agree with what their government does (only the people living inside its borders ofc).
@Rejenorst: Indeed, the Russians still have some brains inside their heads.
Unlike the Germans who got fully Americanised (I actually don't want to blame the Americans here because it is totally the fault of the stupid Germans who adopt all that crap)
I like to be polemic because I am not trying to convince anyone here.Best excuse 4 weak argumentz.
I did not bring out any arguments at all, mate.I like to be polemic because I am not trying to convince anyone here.Best excuse 4 weak argumentz.
kek/kek
lol what. Would you like me to link to you every single one of your hundreds of posts which joke around in the exact same dumb way?
Did you finally come around and decide to start being a normal person or something?
lol what. Would you like me to link to you every single one of your hundreds of posts which joke around in the exact same dumb way?
Yes.Did you finally come around and decide to start being a normal person or something?
No.
And this is why no one can have a serious argument with you! ;D
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.mirror.co.uk%2Fincoming%2Farticle2985333.ece%2Falternates%2Fs615%2FKim-Jong-Un.jpg&hash=04c17f0e39713b02a2f65e8fbc0a544055cc9e23)Spoilerhttp://youtu.be/OL5BZtdumcw[close]And this is why no one can have a serious argument with you! ;D
I'm hooked on a feeling
I'm high on believing
That you're in love with me!
Fuck yeah, the Duurings of this world are going to lose this shit.
The government forces were pretty nice when they bombarded the Pro-Russians right?
The government forces are the legal and legitimate armed wing of the Ukrainian government.But the government is not legal nor legitimate. Not anymore than Separatist leaders.
They are coming for you, Ukraine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ4NRbJQz3o
So it stands 194 nations saying Ukraine and the current government is the legitimate power in all of Ukraine, versus two unrecognized countries saying the separatists hold sovereignty over the Donbass region.Why should I care? How does that make them right? They can't decide what's legal or legitimate, because this isn't their business. Crimea had the right to join Russia. The majority of the inhabitants spoke Russian, they were part of Russia not so long ago, so there was no reason to refuse them their right to self-determination and no reason to doubt that the overwhelming majority was indeed willing to join Russia.
Quote from: duuringSo it stands 194 nations saying Ukraine and the current government is the legitimate power in all of Ukraine, versus two unrecognized countries saying the separatists hold sovereignty over the Donbass region.Why should I care? How does that make them right? They can't decide what's legal or legitimate, because this isn't their business. Crimea had the right to join Russia. The majority of the inhabitants spoke Russian, they were part of Russia not so long ago, so there was no reason to refuse them their right to self-determination and no reason to doubt that the overwhelming majority was indeed willing to join Russia.
On the contrary, there was a lot of reasons to doubt that the majority of the Ukrainian population supported Maidan. Moreover, the overthrow of the Ukrainian president was illegal. Those are facts, no country can dispute that.
and no reason to doubt that the overwhelming majority was indeed willing to join Russia.
It was a revolution. Do you believe are revolutions are illegitimate?
The Russians? Is that how you call the inhabitants of Crimea and Donbass? I support self-determination for everyone, including for Western Ukraine, as long as they respect other populations and countries.Quote from: duuringSo it stands 194 nations saying Ukraine and the current government is the legitimate power in all of Ukraine, versus two unrecognized countries saying the separatists hold sovereignty over the Donbass region.Why should I care? How does that make them right? They can't decide what's legal or legitimate, because this isn't their business. Crimea had the right to join Russia. The majority of the inhabitants spoke Russian, they were part of Russia not so long ago, so there was no reason to refuse them their right to self-determination and no reason to doubt that the overwhelming majority was indeed willing to join Russia.
On the contrary, there was a lot of reasons to doubt that the majority of the Ukrainian population supported Maidan. Moreover, the overthrow of the Ukrainian president was illegal. Those are facts, no country can dispute that.
You speak of self-determination for the Russians, but not for the Ukrainians?
It was a revolution. Do you believe are revolutions are illegitimate?
In 1789-1794 the French made a revolution. They overthrew the monarchy and established a Republic. The structure, and even the culture of the society, changed a lot. The bourgeoisie, helped by the sans-culottes, replaced the aristocracy. That's what I call a revolution.
Now if you want to know whether I consider that overthrowing a legitimately elected president to replace him with a chocolate king is a revolution or not, the answer is: no.
I have 3 other words for you:
"National revolution" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9volution_nationale#Ideology)
Coup d'Etat.
Révolution de palais.The Russians? Is that how you call the inhabitants of Crimea and Donbass? I support self-determination for everyone, including for Western Ukraine, as long as they respect other populations and countries.Quote from: duuringSo it stands 194 nations saying Ukraine and the current government is the legitimate power in all of Ukraine, versus two unrecognized countries saying the separatists hold sovereignty over the Donbass region.Why should I care? How does that make them right? They can't decide what's legal or legitimate, because this isn't their business. Crimea had the right to join Russia. The majority of the inhabitants spoke Russian, they were part of Russia not so long ago, so there was no reason to refuse them their right to self-determination and no reason to doubt that the overwhelming majority was indeed willing to join Russia.
On the contrary, there was a lot of reasons to doubt that the majority of the Ukrainian population supported Maidan. Moreover, the overthrow of the Ukrainian president was illegal. Those are facts, no country can dispute that.
You speak of self-determination for the Russians, but not for the Ukrainians?
But should I speak of self-determination for those who commemorate publicly SS divisions, especially SS division Das Reich which slaughtered my ancestors at Oradour-sur-Glanes? No. I would rather talk about war. And if Russia wages this war for me, should I say something against Russia? No.
It was a revolution. Do you believe are revolutions are illegitimate?No, especially not the one in Crimea and Donbass. I don't think the Poroshenko and Yanukovich government is a good thing for the Ukrainians but if they "want" them, I don't really care.
But the government is not legal nor legitimate. Not anymore than Separatist leaders.It is.
In 1789-1794 the French made a revolution. They overthrew the monarchy and established a Republic. The structure, and even the culture of the society, changed a lot. The bourgeoisie, helped by the sans-culottes, replaced the aristocracy. That's what I call a revolution.Our isn't over yet, it still in progress.
Now if you want to know whether I consider that overthrowing a legitimately elected president to replace him with a chocolate king is a revolution or not, the answer is: no.
But should I speak of self-determination for those who commemorate publicly SS divisions, especially SS division Das Reich which slaughtered my ancestors at Oradour-sur-Glanes?We have nothing to do with SS division Das Reich and Oradour-sur-Glanes.
Crimea had the right to join Russia. The majority of the inhabitants spoke Russian, they were part of Russia not so long ago, so there was no reason to refuse them their right to self-determination and no reason to doubt that the overwhelming majority was indeed willing to join Russia.So, Germany taking Sudetenland in 1938 was right?
It was according to the right of self-determination like Crimea today (not so much this Czechoslovakia thing later).Crimea had the right to join Russia. The majority of the inhabitants spoke Russian, they were part of Russia not so long ago, so there was no reason to refuse them their right to self-determination and no reason to doubt that the overwhelming majority was indeed willing to join Russia.So, Germany taking Sudetenland in 1938 was right?
Germany had the right to take Saarland.Crimea had the right to join Russia. The majority of the inhabitants spoke Russian, they were part of Russia not so long ago, so there was no reason to refuse them their right to self-determination and no reason to doubt that the overwhelming majority was indeed willing to join Russia.So, Germany taking Sudetenland in 1938 was right?
1. Yanu self-withdrewed from the execution of his constitutional powers in an unconstitutional manner and was declarated as one that does not execute his duties.1. Yanu never withdrew. He even claimed that he was still President.
2. Above statements was declared by Resolution #419, and resolutions required simple majority of deputies.
3. There were enough lawyers and other people in VR who understand the law enough to avoid misunderstandings when creating such resolutions
4. If Yanu such right, and this is so simple that even you prooved that he is still legitimate, why he didn't make a lawsuit to any court for recognition of his legitimacy?He'll easily win that, if he so right, isn't he?
In 1830 French made another revolution, in few days overthrow legitimate king and replace to another. Do you consider it as a revolution?Of course not, that was a failed revolution followed by a révolution de palais. The people revolted after Jean Maximilien Lamarque's death and demanded a republic, not a monarchy. No king can be legitimate in France since the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen which states: "The principle of all sovereignty resides essentially in the nation. No body nor individual may exercise any authority which does not proceed directly from the nation."
Crimea had the right to join Russia. The majority of the inhabitants spoke Russian, they were part of Russia not so long ago, so there was no reason to refuse them their right to self-determination and no reason to doubt that the overwhelming majority was indeed willing to join Russia.So, Germany taking Sudetenland in 1938 was right?
Quoteand no reason to doubt that the overwhelming majority was indeed willing to join Russia.
Suuuuure.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01/24/ex-terrorist-leader-referendum-in-crimea-was-a-farce/
Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2F64%2F647a3c842e0811dbbcf5f32d0ecd69848acb2771c4d383875cdbbf858d7d2c11.jpg&hash=d282a9527ab163443575d39726c48f5d20463ea5)[close]
The government forces were pretty nice when they bombarded the Pro-Russians right?
The government forces are the legal and legitimate armed wing of the Ukrainian government. It means they have the right to use violence. My point is, however, that this blows away (pun intended) the myth of some sort of good/bad-story. The separatists are not just using force against civilians, they're also doing so using nondiscriminatory weapons like the Grad and while not being the legal force in the area. I'm sure Mariupol can't wait to be 'liberated'.
I'm not saying the separatists are considerably 'worse' or 'more evil' then the Ukrainians. My point is that they do the exact same things as Ukraine.
Maybe in the middle east. I can assure you we stopped caring about the Syrian Civil war here.
Maybe in the middle east. I can assure you we stopped caring about the Syrian Civil war here.
Same here. Only ever brought up as a springboard to attack Obama nowadays. For all the media cares Iraq is the entire middle east at this point.
Praise Assad, the legal president of Syria, and a major figure in the fight against terrorism!The government forces were pretty nice when they bombarded the Pro-Russians right?
The government forces are the legal and legitimate armed wing of the Ukrainian government. It means they have the right to use violence. My point is, however, that this blows away (pun intended) the myth of some sort of good/bad-story. The separatists are not just using force against civilians, they're also doing so using nondiscriminatory weapons like the Grad and while not being the legal force in the area. I'm sure Mariupol can't wait to be 'liberated'.
I'm not saying the separatists are considerably 'worse' or 'more evil' then the Ukrainians. My point is that they do the exact same things as Ukraine.
Just like the Syrian Arab Army, but they get classified as "EVIL BABY KILLERS DICTATOR TOOL" and everyone goes ape shit when a civilian dies.
Praise Assad, the legal president of Syria, and a major figure in the fight against terrorism!
The government forces were pretty nice when they bombarded the Pro-Russians right?
The government forces are the legal and legitimate armed wing of the Ukrainian government. It means they have the right to use violence. My point is, however, that this blows away (pun intended) the myth of some sort of good/bad-story. The separatists are not just using force against civilians, they're also doing so using nondiscriminatory weapons like the Grad and while not being the legal force in the area. I'm sure Mariupol can't wait to be 'liberated'.
I'm not saying the separatists are considerably 'worse' or 'more evil' then the Ukrainians. My point is that they do the exact same things as Ukraine.
Just like the Syrian Arab Army, but they get classified as "EVIL BABY KILLERS DICTATOR TOOL" and everyone goes ape shit when a civilian dies.
Maybe in the middle east. I can assure you we stopped caring about the Syrian Civil war here.
Maybe in the middle east. I can assure you we stopped caring about the Syrian Civil war here.
Wow thx vicey. The title was a little misleading though. I was expecting them to actually get trapped under artillery fire in the video :\Simon is calling in mortar shots for separatists
Wow thx vicey. The title was a little misleading though. I was expecting them to actually get trapped under artillery fire in the video :\Meh if they did they wouldn't be making the video :-*
Apparently the ever vigilant air traffic control tower at the Donetsk airport was destroyed in the final DPR artillery barrage against the surrounded Ukrainian forces last week. RIP ;_;Situation is tough in ukraine right now, there is an uneasy feeling in the capital(Kiev). No-one knows what's gonna happen next :/ And the shit weather isn't helping it either.
m8
https://i.imgur.com/95nPU85.gifvcan you get anymore keyboard warrior at all
You hear that FSE community of Ukraine? Go finish what you started
https://i.imgur.com/95nPU85.gifvcan you get anymore keyboard warrior at all
You hear that FSE community of Ukraine? Go finish what you started
I don't see you doing those things, dick.https://i.imgur.com/95nPU85.gifvcan you get anymore keyboard warrior at all
You hear that FSE community of Ukraine? Go finish what you started
His FSE post help fuel the tanks and reload the guns. Oh wait no they don't they're just bytes on the internet.
Defending the Ruined Village of Pisky: Russian Roulette (Dispatch 91): http://youtu.be/-LzEx03UQFI and Thomas please
Those reports look totally biased on the surface, but actually they only show raw truth. You discover that the Ukrainian army is junk and that Ukraine probably spent more money in drugs than in their hospitals. And yet, they are proud of it.
I don't see you doing those things, dick.https://i.imgur.com/95nPU85.gifvcan you get anymore keyboard warrior at all
You hear that FSE community of Ukraine? Go finish what you started
His FSE post help fuel the tanks and reload the guns. Oh wait no they don't they're just bytes on the internet.
I don't see you doing those things, dick.https://i.imgur.com/95nPU85.gifvcan you get anymore keyboard warrior at all
You hear that FSE community of Ukraine? Go finish what you started
His FSE post help fuel the tanks and reload the guns. Oh wait no they don't they're just bytes on the internet.
I also don't try supporting a foreign conflict from behind my keyboard?
I don't see you doing those things, dick.https://i.imgur.com/95nPU85.gifvcan you get anymore keyboard warrior at all
You hear that FSE community of Ukraine? Go finish what you started
His FSE post help fuel the tanks and reload the guns. Oh wait no they don't they're just bytes on the internet.
I also don't try supporting a foreign conflict from behind my keyboard?
I'm American and Russia's doing shit again.
I don't see you doing those things, dick.https://i.imgur.com/95nPU85.gifvcan you get anymore keyboard warrior at all
You hear that FSE community of Ukraine? Go finish what you started
His FSE post help fuel the tanks and reload the guns. Oh wait no they don't they're just bytes on the internet.
I also don't try supporting a foreign conflict from behind my keyboard?
I'm American and Russia's doing shit again.
So what? Russia is just acting like the US when Cuba became a Communist state. muh patriotism
Fail.
Nobody claims there is definite proofSome people in this thread do so and that's pretty annoying.
See, this is why nobody bothers to enter discussion with you. You scream there's no proof, yet when we provide, you trivialize it.There is no proof but there are indications. I hope we agree on this.
Which, unlike Russia, the west does so by openly and in accordance to law.
Which, unlike Russia, the west does so by openly and in accordance to law.
fuck svoboda
You don't often post something in this thread but when you do you are most of the time insulting other people.fuck svoboda
autism strikes back
https://i.imgur.com/gallery/bTWE0Q6War makes any woman look a hundred times more beautiful
The Ukrainian military is the military arm of the Ukrainian State. Just like people can sell guns to the US army when they're fighting a war, people can sell the Ukrainian army guns during a war.
If only the Ruski's would follow any rules.This is exactly the sort of shit that happens when you go from serfdom to attempted socialism in the space of 50 years.
If only the Ruski's would follow any rules.
Seriously, MaxLam, stop being an idiot. Saying 'the president was ousted wrongfully' is one thing, but that doesn't mean the new parliament and the new president have been elected trough unconstitutional means. Parliament is elected independently from the president anyway.The problem right now isn't about the election of the president, but about constitutional order in general. You can't say that they have "constitutionally reorganized the country" since important separatist regions still refuse to aknowledge the new order. The discussions between the countries involved in this crisis are mostly about this constitutional reorganization.
It's also unconstitutional to steal money from the state to make your own palace, but I don't hear you about that.
Seriously, MaxLam, stop being an idiot. Saying 'the president was ousted wrongfully' is one thing, but that doesn't mean the new parliament and the new president have been elected trough unconstitutional means. Parliament is elected independently from the president anyway.The problem right now isn't about the election of the president, but about constitutional order in general. You can't say that they have "constitutionally reorganized the country" since important separatist regions still refuse to aknowledge the new order. The discussions between the countries involved in this crisis are mostly about this constitutional reorganization.
It's also unconstitutional to steal money from the state to make your own palace, but I don't hear you about that.
About Yanu's palace, it's illegal, not unconstitutional. The constitution protects the principles of the Nation and the organization of the State. I'm sure that the Chocolate King didn't built his fortune just by selling chocolate in the streets. After all, Ukraine was still a socialist country 25 years ago.
1. Yanu never withdrew. He even claimed that he was still President.1. He said a lot of stupid things, because he is a pretty dumb itself, so what? There are facts and actions(or lack of them), that shows the real situation that happen. Come on, he started to prepare for leaving since 19.02 when valuable things and the part of important documents were taken away from his palace along with his woman, which means that he did not hope or plan to return. He made an videoappeal that he is legally President and he remains in Ukraine, but gone right after that. Then did not stay in loyal to him Donbass or Crimea, where all was moreover quietly, and do not even try to do something from there - he fled from there to Russia, from where do not even bother to made an attempts to return or at least perform his duties. What is it, if not a runaway?
2. According to the Constitution, only a majority of 3/4 could have removed Yanu. There was no such majority. And moreover the procedure wasn't followed.
3. Me not understand.
4. Which court?
1. He said a lot of stupid things, because he is a pretty dumb itself, so what? There are facts and actions(or lack of them), that shows the real situation that happen. Come on, he started to prepare for leaving since 19.02 when valuable things and the part of important documents were taken away from his palace along with his woman, which means that he did not hope or plan to return. He made an videoappeal that he is legally President and he remains in Ukraine, but gone right after that. Then did not stay in loyal to him Donbass or Crimea, where all was moreover quietly, and do not even try to do something from there - he fled from there to Russia, from where do not even bother to made an attempts to return or at least perform his duties. What is it, if not a runaway?This doesn't make any sense. If Yanu thought that he couldn't remain President, he would have resigned. But he didn't. Yanu probably believed that he could obtain some help from Russia, or even become a President in exile. But Russia obivously considered that Yanu was politically dead and refused to support him.
2. Thing is, that that resolution does not removed Yanu - at that moment it was already given that he already disappeared and do not performs his duties as a President at that moment - self-withdrewed in a unconstitutional way, because our constitution isn't perfect, there is not provided, that president can just runaway from his duties.That's stupid. Sometimes running away can be the duty of a president. The Polish government ran away too when the country was invaded by Nazi Germany. Anyway, there was nothing in the constitution which said that the Parliament could remove the President if, according to their own foolish opinion, the President wasnt "performing his duties" anymore. Article 111 of the constitution allowed to impeach the president in case of "state treason or other crime." Running away is certainly not a state treason. However, ploting to overthrow the legitimate president is a state treason.
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Court_of_Ukraine for example, or some international, like International Court of JusticeBecause that's totally out of the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice.
Thing is that he does not even tried.
Because that's totally out of the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice.And what about Constitutional Court of Ukraine?He could applied there and prove that he still is legitimate if he is so right.
If Yanu thought that he couldn't remain President, he would have resigned. But he didn't.Yes, instead of made it as it should've been done, he just leave all, leave his duties which assigned to him by the Constitution, and runaway.
That's stupid. Sometimes running away can be the duty of a president. The Polish government ran away too when the country was invaded by Nazi Germany.It can't be compared, different things
Anyway, there was nothing in the constitution which said that the Parliament could remove the President if, according to their own foolish opinion, the President wasnt "performing his duties" anymore. Article 111 of the constitution allowed to impeach the president in case of "state treason or other crime." Running away is certainly not a state treason. However, ploting to overthrow the legitimate president is a state treason.And again - Parliament does not remove Yanu, they just made resolution which confirmed, that President self-removed and cannot perform his duties, and made further decision because of it.
The separatists claim to have killed 31 000 Ukrainian Soldiers while Ukraine claims to have "only" lost 1 500 soldiers.If they would have killed 31k Ukrainian Soldiers, PP would not have been a president, but would sit somewhere in Rostov along with Yanu in very best case.
Not sure how reliable this is: http://warnewsupdates.blogspot.ca/2015/02/german-intelligence-ukraine-death-toll.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/world/europe/more-than-a-million-ukrainians-have-been-displaced-un-says.html?_r=0SpoilerOf the Ukrainians entering Russia, more than half a million had crossed its western border, taking advantage of a nine-month, visa-free stay allowance; around 260,000 had applied for some form of refugee status.[close]
The government forces won't admit losing more then 1 500 soldiers but admits to losing at-least 20 000 soldiers. While claiming to have 50 000 servicemen. Those are significant numbers.
The separatists claim to have killed 31 000 Ukrainian Soldiers while Ukraine claims to have "only" lost 1 500 soldiers. At the same time it is reported that the hospitals in Ukraine are filled with wounded soldiers and we aren't talking about any Pro Russians in hospitals.
I don't think you quite understand their viewpoint.
Oh, and let's not forget the events of Odessa
There have been some bomb attacks in the rest of Ukraine, as well as several armed groups being arrested, and even a railway bridge was destroyed miles behind the front line, in a different oblast. Kharkiv had their own little separatist movement at the beginning which (thankfully) imploded. Oh, and let's not forget the events of Odessa, the fact Russia controls the entire Crimea and that Separatists leaders have mentioned again and again their wish to expand.
These people have every reason to expect the conflict will spread if the separatists win in the east.
Here's a another look at the heroic Ukrainian Volunteers Running Supplies with the Dudayev Battalion: Russian Roulette (Dispatch 92): http://youtu.be/wZGHDlODo3QSo a battalion of Chechen terrorists call Ukrainian separatists "terrorists"? ;D
You sure are getting emotionally involved in this conflict, Edward. Seems sort of odd, don't you think?
You sure are getting emotionally involved in this conflict, Edward. Seems sort of odd, don't you think?
Nothing emotionally, just hate modern day RUSSIA
Well, hate is an emotion ::)You sure are getting emotionally involved in this conflict, Edward. Seems sort of odd, don't you think?
Nothing emotionally, just hate modern day RUSSIA
Well, hate is an emotion ::)You sure are getting emotionally involved in this conflict, Edward. Seems sort of odd, don't you think?
Nothing emotionally, just hate modern day RUSSIA
Dem fighting faces, son :'( >:(Well, hate is an emotion ::)You sure are getting emotionally involved in this conflict, Edward. Seems sort of odd, don't you think?
Nothing emotionally, just hate modern day RUSSIA
And an emoticon >:( !
You sure are getting emotionally involved in this conflict, Edward. Seems sort of odd, don't you think?
Nothing emotionally, just hate modern day RUSSIA
Why not? If the media can use Flaming Cliffs 2 as satellite video of grads firing from Russia then...
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/394415/Russia-Ukraine-video-game-shelling-attack
Also the Ukraine invasion scenario has been around for a while as it has been well known that Russia would never tolerate Ukraine's acceptance into NATO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8wB8er7h3c
Uploaded on Jun 8, 2010
Arma 2 Video of Russian Blitz into Ukraine (not real)
"WTF!"
Why not? If the media can use Flaming Cliffs 2 as satellite video of grads firing from Russia then...
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/394415/Russia-Ukraine-video-game-shelling-attack
Also the Ukraine invasion scenario has been around for a while as it has been well known that Russia would never tolerate Ukraine's acceptance into NATO.
Like you post and it's not stupid. It's great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8wB8er7h3c
Uploaded on Jun 8, 2010
Arma 2 Video of Russian Blitz into Ukraine (not real)
"WTF!"
Confirmed Time Travel
Spoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8wB8er7h3c[close]
Uploaded on Jun 8, 2010
Arma 2 Video of Russian Blitz into Ukraine (not real)
"WTF!"
Confirmed Time Travel
Let's hope there will be peace soon. I just wish that Russia and the US would work together rather than against each other (on peace initiatives and more).There won't be for sure, and second is not possible.
Why is the girl in that video crying... And why does she have her little kid in the same room. Is she stupid? Go somewhere where there is more cover. Atleast get away from the stupid window. Seriously, a shell doesn't even have to land close to her and she is still going to have glass splinters all over her face...
Maybe she thought it was Pro Russian artillery. Those are guided by god and never cause harm to civilians.
Not the same god.Maybe she thought it was Pro Russian artillery. Those are guided by god and never cause harm to civilians.
Interestingly, the inverse of Israeli artillery which are guided by god and always cause harm to civilians.
Do you have autism?
Maybe she thought it was Pro Russian artillery. Those are guided by god and never cause harm to civilians.
Interestingly, the inverse of Israeli artillery which are guided by god and always cause harm to civilians.
god favors kebabyeah you do
god favors kebab
Stop the blasphemy already and get back on topic.
I'm amazed this hasn't been postedInteresting... this hasnt been on the ukrainian news this morning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jvto4-42TA
Here's an old one aswell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3hDRbR7qvE
You can do medical examinations by looking at pictures. Kewl.
And if Russia Today tells me that Obama has Ebola I will believe it too.
Using the BILD as a serious source, really?
That's not what I mean.
For example the BILD says:
"Evidence for that are for example his incomprehensible decisions, his authoritarian leadership style and his alleged neurological abnormal development in his childhood."
The first two "indications" are just critizism on Putin himself and no diagnose or anything. I actually haven't noticed any of these "non-comprehensible" actions.
And this childhood thing is just bullshit. There is no source for this claim which means there is no reason to write about it. Putting the word "alleged" in front of it doesn't make it any better.
source: http://www.bild.de/ratgeber/gesundheit/asperger-syndrom/putin-angeblich-autist-was-ist-das-asperger-syndrom-39656838.bild.html
Russia stronk and want macaroni
http://disinfo.com/2015/02/vladimir-putin-autistic-says-u-s-government/
Looks like a new truce got signed-It isn't the truce, but our capitulation.
I hope this last longer than the last one
Why did you guys sign it then?Looks like a new truce got signed-It isn't the truce, but our capitulation.
I hope this last longer than the last one
And no, it won't be followed, i'm almost sure in that.
Why did you guys sign it then?Good question. Probably because of pressure of EU, that in one hand - neither can, want or will go in, not to mention war, but even in conflict with Russia, in other - can't leave Ukraine without any help, because there is a possibility to 'lose' it. So it is the best decision for them.
There was no representative of the so-called insurgents.Actually there was, Zakharchenko(DPR) and Plotnitskiy(LPR) was there by themselves. Actually, they and representatives of Ukraine, Russia and OSCE signed agreement
As you can see in this image the rebels have to retreat to the frontline from september 19th while the Ukrainians are allowed to stay behind the front how it is today.They have to just take away heavy artillery from that line.
Because what one man says changes the entire event in which hundreds of thousands of people were involved.
If cease-fire fails martial law will be declared:It isn't even started and already failed but PoP will not declared martial law anyway
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/poroshenko-will-impose-martial-law-if-cease-fire-fails-380663.html
your generic ukrainian soldier, who is just trying to make a living.
It doesnt matter if they are just 1% or 99% for that matter, they get all the important tasks because they are fanatics compared to your generic ukrainian soldier, who is just trying to make a living.
They should give attention to everything, even the weird apologist leftists that venerate Putin just because he opposes the West.
Both the wests "PUTIN DID IT" meme and Russia's constant focus on the neo-nazis (which has some merit).
I can also understand the Eastern Ukrainians who don't want to be part of a Ukraine that was hijacked by National Endowment for Democracy. Where the interim president was from a party that has a think tank by the name "Joseph Goebbles Institute" and the new oligarch president has been described by US officials through wikileaks as their man in Ukraine.
However to me it looks like Russia are the defensive ones here. I imagine if a Russian alliance did something similar in say, Mexico, to what NATO/EU/US has done in Ukraine we would have WW3 long ago.
Note that I am not on the Putin bandwagon btw.
It doesnt matter if they are just 1% or 99% for that matter, they get all the important tasks because they are fanatics compared to your generic ukrainian soldier, who is just trying to make a living.
I think he's referring to all the volunteer battalions in general, who make up a slightly larger portion of Ukraine's forces. In that respect, I'd say they do get different tasks than the Ukrainian military because they're less burdened by shitty bureaucracy and corruption and they can move and reposition themselves quickly and efficiently.
The Azov battalion is just an example of one of these more fanatic volunteer groups, but they're far from the only ones.
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/02/11/nyt-whites-out-ukraines-brown-shirts/Through false lying article on leftist pro-Russian site, nothing good to read :)
However to me it looks like Russia are the defensive ones here.Just can't wait when Russia starts to "defend itself" in your country :)
to what NATO/EU/US has done in UkraineWhat they has done?Is this NATO/EU/US send here grads, tanks or soldiers?Or maybe Girkin, Boroday, all those so-called cossacks atamans, caucasians are from EU? Or it is CIA started to create training DPR camps back in 2009?Open your leftist eyes already for god sake
1% of the world is richer than the other 99%, does that mean the 99% are defined by the 1% of humans who have all the wealth? No it doesn't m8.
1% of the world is richer than the other 99%, does that mean the 99% are defined by the 1% of humans who have all the wealth? No it doesn't m8.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_hegemony
Azov did became a regiment but other then the title-change, what exactly did change? I haven't seen anything that suggest they became larger or incorporated Armour-troops.As the regiment of National Guard, it is easier for them to get those and other stuff like artillery division, official training center etc.
That's a nice theory. Shame it's Marxists, and thus bullshit.
yes1% of the world is richer than the other 99%, does that mean the 99% are defined by the 1% of humans who have all the wealth? No it doesn't m8.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_hegemony
Sry but i dont subscribe to kim jong ils godly communistic theories
That's a nice theory. Shame it's Marxists, and thus bullshit.
Marxism is a theory, just like liberalism, realism, social constructivism , and so on. You can use to it explain why certain things may have happened, or use it as a guideline to tell how certain things may go in the future, but as soon as guys start thinking their theory is the undeniable truth, people tend to start dying by alarming rates.
Pretty much every Marxist theory is actually nothing but a conspiracy theory that always comes done to 'rich are oppressing the poor'.
And what if Marxism is based on widely recgonized philosophical, reasonable (albeit ego-centrical) thinking?
Cultural hegemony isn't a big obstacle. It's a big obstacle according to the guy that wrote it. I, for one, don't consider the theory to be true. Culture isn't something that's created, it's something that comes to be, and can only be steered by the tiniest bit of margins. Culture makes no difference between your income or how big your house is, and culture is only on obstacle to corporation when we perceive it as such.
Marxism is a theory, just like liberalism, realism, social constructivism , and so on.No it's a doctrine.
Sry but i dont subscribe to kim jong ils godly communistic theoriesThat's a nice theory. Shame it's Marxists, and thus bullshit.
Recognising that Marxists predicted many things accurately and or that some of the material mentioned in these works can be agreed with has nothing to do with refusing to build a political system around these theories.Spoilerlol Sven is fucking stupid[close]
You misunderstand those people.
Quote from: DuuringMarxism is a theory, just like liberalism, realism, social constructivism , and so on.No it's a doctrine.
The civilization and justice of bourgeois order comes out in its lurid light whenever the slaves and drudges of that order rise against their masters.
Then this civilization and justice stand forther as undisguised savagery and lawless revenge ... the infernal deeds of the soldiery reflect the innate spirit of that civilization of which they are the mercenary vindicators...
The bourgeous of the whole world, which looks complacently upon the wholesale massacre after the battle, is convulsed by horror at the desecration of brick and mortar.
Sven is one of those people that believe that all Socialists are Stalinists.
Sry but i dont subscribe to kim jong ils godly communistic theoriesThat's a nice theory. Shame it's Marxists, and thus bullshit.
Recognising that Marxists predicted many things accurately and or that some of the material mentioned in these works can be agreed with has nothing to do with refusing to build a political system around these theories.
lol Sven is fucking stupid
Sven is one of those people that believe that all Socialists are Stalinists.
Piss off you don't even know me. I have no clue why i am even replying because you'll cry a river an report me. Anyhow, fuck off.
I doubt it. He's Swedish. Nothing but nazi's and socialists up there.
Sven is one of those people that believe that all Socialists are Stalinists.
Piss off you don't even know me. I have no clue why i am even replying because you'll cry a river an report me. Anyhow, fuck off.
Why you so butthurt? Is what I'm saying not true?
Yes i am so butthurt by the fact that people like you exist. If i ever become a nazi drug cartel leader, i will write in my autobiography that i was inspired to do so because some aarkvard named furrnox managed to make me reconsider the existance of humanity and whether equality should actually be a thing.
So no, what you are saying is not true. Being a socialist and a stalinist are not the same thing, however they both annoy me, hence why i dislike you. ty m8 nao fuk of
DPR stronk
Yes i am so butthurt by the fact that people like you exist. If i ever become a nazi drug cartel leader, i will write in my autobiography that i was inspired to do so because some aarkvard named furrnox managed to make me reconsider the existance of humanity and whether equality should actually be a thing.
So no, what you are saying is not true. Being a socialist and a stalinist are not the same thing, however they both annoy me, hence why i dislike you. ty m8 nao fuk of
Hopefully your autobiography is a lot like your forum posts. One big meaningless angry rant.
Yes i am so butthurt by the fact that people like you exist. If i ever become a nazi drug cartel leader, i will write in my autobiography that i was inspired to do so because some aarkvard named furrnox managed to make me reconsider the existance of humanity and whether equality should actually be a thing.
So no, what you are saying is not true. Being a socialist and a stalinist are not the same thing, however they both annoy me, hence why i dislike you. ty m8 nao fuk of
Hopefully your autobiography is a lot like your forum posts. One big meaningless angry rant.
National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine approved the appeal to the UN and the European Union to deploy in Ukraine mission of maintaining peace and security.
i wonder if you realised you posted the same video twice with two different captions.
i wonder if you realised you posted the same video twice with two different captions.
He's done something like this every time a new video has come out for the past month or so.
i wonder if you realised you posted the same video twice with two different captions.
He's done something like this every time a new video has come out for the past month or so.
It will allow, if mission includes Russian peace-keepers inside, but because our parliament acknowledges Russia as aggressor country, it will looks like a stupid joke, if such happens.
Anyway, i doubt UN or EU or NATO has enough will to do this.
was probably having some wet dreams about me overnight and decided to vent his frustrations hereqt
cant blame him though
Alright, this is getting ridiculous. MarshalKim, start behaving.
Sven is like the workers paradise;DSpoilerno class[close]
was probably having some wet dreams about me overnight and decided to vent his frustrations here
cant blame him though
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F38.media.tumblr.com%2Fb2cd113fe29059f81b4388a8884322c9%2Ftumblr_nk3sn1pHsy1tpmgf1o1_400.gif&hash=c4cfb498636ddf200a064e6b8fc08ac3103db0b2)Love your profile picture ;3
did we win yet?We will.
I reported the idiot for his Nazi profile picture. Though I doubt that he will be banned. Duuring saw this and did nothing.Why should it be forbidden to have such an avatar?
The Wolfsangel used alone isn't necessarily related to Nazi Germany. That's true. However the Volfsangel used by fascist battalion AZOV (https://pp.vk.me/c624319/v624319338/bdee/oYSPOCYhtB0.jpg) in combination with the "black sun" plus a Nazi poster is necessarily and decidedly nazi. So now shut up.Dude, cut him some slack. Don't be such a nazi ;D
(https://thedailyagenda.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/wpid-1405369227049.jpg?w=614)
Can you count all the sticks up your ass individually, Max, or have they just merged into one massive megastick at this point?
Normal people don't use "German WW2 pproganda poster as a template." Nazis do. They did it in the French Foreign Legion too. That's where they went after WWII, and that doesn't make it any more acceptable.The Wolfsangel used alone isn't necessarily related to Nazi Germany. That's true. However the Volfsangel used by fascist battalion AZOV (https://pp.vk.me/c624319/v624319338/bdee/oYSPOCYhtB0.jpg) in combination with the "black sun" plus a Nazi poster is necessarily and decidedly nazi. So now shut up.Dude, cut him some slack. Don't be such a nazi ;D
(https://thedailyagenda.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/wpid-1405369227049.jpg?w=614)
Also, who(exclude butthurt leftists) gives a damn? He's not glorifying national socialism no more than the French Foreign legion. Azov is using an old German WW2 propaganda poster as a template, just like the French Foreign legion is using SS marchiert in Feiendtsland's tune as their marching song ;)
The argument is not about whether it's normal or not. The argument is about whether the poster violates the forum rules, which it does not. I only brought the French Foreign Legion into the argument to demonstrate the consequences of applying the same logic in other contexts.Normal people don't use "German WW2 pproganda poster as a template." Nazis do. They did it in the French Foreign Legion too. That's where they went after WWII, and that doesn't make it any more acceptable.The Wolfsangel used alone isn't necessarily related to Nazi Germany. That's true. However the Volfsangel used by fascist battalion AZOV (https://pp.vk.me/c624319/v624319338/bdee/oYSPOCYhtB0.jpg) in combination with the "black sun" plus a Nazi poster is necessarily and decidedly nazi. So now shut up.Dude, cut him some slack. Don't be such a nazi ;D
(https://thedailyagenda.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/wpid-1405369227049.jpg?w=614)
Also, who(exclude butthurt leftists) gives a damn? He's not glorifying national socialism no more than the French Foreign legion. Azov is using an old German WW2 propaganda poster as a template, just like the French Foreign legion is using SS marchiert in Feiendtsland's tune as their marching song ;)
The argument is not about whether it's normal or not. The argument is about whether the poster violates the forum rules, which it does not. I only brought the French Foreign Legion into the argument to demonstrate the consequences of applying the same logic in other contexts.It does violate the forum rules because it represents "elements of former Nazi Germany": Poster, SS or Wehrmacht soldier, nazi symbols. So no, sorry, there is no possible discussion about that.
QuoteThe argument is not about whether it's normal or not. The argument is about whether the poster violates the forum rules, which it does not. I only brought the French Foreign Legion into the argument to demonstrate the consequences of applying the same logic in other contexts.It does violate the forum rules because it represents "elements of former Nazi Germany": Poster, SS or Wehrmacht soldier, nazi symbols. So no, sorry, there is no possible discussion about that.
That's an Azov Battalion logo though which isn't glorifying Nazi Germany and as far as I know that soldier aint killing Jews, and he doesn't wear a SS logo or a swastika. So he isn't really glorifying anything other than the Azov Battalion which hasn't been proven to be Nazis.QuoteThe argument is not about whether it's normal or not. The argument is about whether the poster violates the forum rules, which it does not. I only brought the French Foreign Legion into the argument to demonstrate the consequences of applying the same logic in other contexts.It does violate the forum rules because it represents "elements of former Nazi Germany": Poster, SS or Wehrmacht soldier, nazi symbols. So no, sorry, there is no possible discussion about that.
That's an Azov Battalion logo made of nazi symbols (Wolfsangel and Black Sun) on a Nazi Poster. It glorifies the Azov Battallion which glorifies Nazi Germany. And it also represents Nazi symbols.That's an Azov Battalion logo though which isn't glorifying Nazi Germany and as far as I know that soldier aint killing Jews, and he doesn't wear a SS logo or a swastika. So he isn't really glorifying anything other than the Azov Battalion which hasn't been proven to be Nazis.QuoteThe argument is not about whether it's normal or not. The argument is about whether the poster violates the forum rules, which it does not. I only brought the French Foreign Legion into the argument to demonstrate the consequences of applying the same logic in other contexts.It does violate the forum rules because it represents "elements of former Nazi Germany": Poster, SS or Wehrmacht soldier, nazi symbols. So no, sorry, there is no possible discussion about that.
Yes and he's gay.
Nonetheless I think this whole thing is not so much about the rules but about your notorious antifascism. I for example really don't have a problem with that and I don't believe he converted many people to fascism by making this picture his avatar.
Some of the other persons in this thread like Sven aren't very nice either though.
I made my post before you guys started insulting each other, kid.
But it should be obvious that I was talking to Max.
I think you should go to bed now.I made my post before you guys started insulting each other, kid.
But it should be obvious that I was talking to Max.
u fuckin want sum u commie bastard
I think you should go to bed now.I made my post before you guys started insulting each other, kid.
But it should be obvious that I was talking to Max.
u fuckin want sum u commie bastard
I don't like fascism indeed. That's a matter of honor. But for those who post Nazi stuff, that's above all a matter of decency.There are also a lot of people who post socialist, Stalinist or Bolshevik stuff.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkfausa-org.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F12%2Flg.10.jpg&hash=40be060955659768867fabf5df1620d6c0caf82c)
Yes but those people won the war.I don't like fascism indeed. That's a matter of honor. But for those who post Nazi stuff, that's above all a matter of decency.There are also a lot of people who post socialist, Stalinist or Bolshevik stuff.
Yes and he's gay.
max dont talk about yourself like that in 3rd person
You people.
No, I won't do shit cos I'm currently near Berlin using MacDonalds wifi.
I assure you guys Duuring isnt into Azov Battalion at all.
Max, If you have a problem with me, feel free to take it to the PM with me. Honestly I felt I did nothing wrong, I have not glorified Nazis anywhere in the forum. As far my post here on Ukraine topic, always on-topic about Ukraine.
Speaking of nazis and Ukraine, my father and I was talking about Ukraine today, I showed him couple of "dispatches" from Vice news. He made a interesting comment about the situation. If you noticed whenever vice news cover any volunteers or soldiers on Ukraine side, they're always talking about their condition and justifying their action to ensure safety of the civilians in the area. Then moving on to DNR side, they're always talking about how stupid Ukrainians are, bunch of animals, morons, and how they can't wait to kill them all. My father said, that certain attitude reminded him of the Wehrmacht and SS in Ostfront.
Interesting. Anyone feels the same?
SpoilerI assure you guys Duuring isnt into Azov Battalion at all.
Max, If you have a problem with me, feel free to take it to the PM with me. Honestly I felt I did nothing wrong, I have not glorified Nazis anywhere in the forum. As far my post here on Ukraine topic, always on-topic about Ukraine.
Speaking of nazis and Ukraine, my father and I was talking about Ukraine today, I showed him couple of "dispatches" from Vice news. He made a interesting comment about the situation. If you noticed whenever vice news cover any volunteers or soldiers on Ukraine side, they're always talking about their condition and justifying their action to ensure safety of the civilians in the area. Then moving on to DNR side, they're always talking about how stupid Ukrainians are, bunch of animals, morons, and how they can't wait to kill them all. My father said, that certain attitude reminded him of the Wehrmacht and SS in Ostfront.
Interesting. Anyone feels the same?[close]
We know you love us
Its hard to find a more talented group of retards and political extremists.
Honestly I felt I did nothing wrong, I have not glorified Nazis anywhere in the forum. As far my post here on Ukraine topic, always on-topic about Ukraine.How dare you say that you are not glorifying Nazis? That's what you are doing with your avatar.
Then moving on to DNR side, they're always talking about how stupid Ukrainians are, bunch of animals, morons, and how they can't wait to kill them all. My father said, that certain attitude reminded him of the Wehrmacht and SS in Ostfront.Your father must be very old, and your memory very selective. They also call the seperatists "terrorists", which is exactly how Nazi occupants called the Resistance movements throughout Europe.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweknowmemes.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F08%2Fgrandpa-was-an-electrician-nazi-helmet.jpg&hash=bb837e472d51d0b549af21149e96f25e3df14bc1)This.
Ukraine doesn't get to do this because the DPR is awesome.(https://scontent-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10991056_1004605146236274_6337911649851911913_n.jpg?oh=71345a850acafc8e97546e1099afab6b&oe=5581D769)
QuoteHonestly I felt I did nothing wrong, I have not glorified Nazis anywhere in the forum. As far my post here on Ukraine topic, always on-topic about Ukraine.How dare you say that you are not glorifying Nazis? That's what you are doing with your avatar.Spoiler(https://thedailyagenda.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/wpid-1405369227049.jpg?w=614)[close]QuoteThen moving on to DNR side, they're always talking about how stupid Ukrainians are, bunch of animals, morons, and how they can't wait to kill them all. My father said, that certain attitude reminded him of the Wehrmacht and SS in Ostfront.Your father must be very old, and your memory very selective. They also call the seperatists "terrorists", which is exactly how Nazi occupants called the Resistance movements throughout Europe.
Nazi invaders also justified their occupation with a lot of propaganda about the protection of civilians.
This video clearly shows who are the most dangerous fascists in Ukraine:Spoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrG_UZibwbU[close]
Sieg heil!
SLAVA UKRAINI
Deo iz facismz confurmed
Man Max, do you see me glorifying nazis here?Of course I do. Look at your avatar. If you had a bit of common sense you wouldn't use something like that. Azov battalion is a nazi organization, that's all. A normal person don't "love it" when there is nazi references in modern society.
Azov battalion is a nazi organization, that's all.It is not, that's all.
From the looks of it, you have a photo of one of Napoleon's Old Guard. I can't believe you would support a regiment of soldiers that served a mass murderer who caused almost seven million deaths. u must be of fascist murderer. But you're not. I assume you have an appreciation of the history of that regiment and its soldiersQuoteMan Max, do you see me glorifying nazis here?Of course I do. Look at your avatar. If you had a bit of common sense you wouldn't use something like that. Azov battalion is a nazi organization, that's all. A normal person don't "love it" when there is nazi references in modern society.
What, do you think I'm trying to assert my dominance over you or something? Obviously yes, I have no power over you in regards to your continued participation on these forums. I can, however tell you how I feel about you. You're by far the worst poster FSE has seen in a long time. You're self absorbed, condescending, delusional, and an overall pain to deal with.
I think I speak for more than myself when I tell you with complete and utter sincerity that it would be best if you fucked right out of here.I have no doubt about that.
That's not your forum Nipplestockings. This forum is devoted to those who play or support FSE games. If you are not happy with that you might leave as well. It's not because you posted more shit there that this gives you the right to tell who should leave. This is as simple as that. People should respect the rules.
pls post more pics of the Azov Battalion
i wanna make a reg like them in NW
pls post more pics of the Azov Battalion
i wanna make a reg like them in NW
no pls i wanna see them here
no pls i wanna see them here
pls bomb ukraine to save meh american lives+1
Because all military vehicles in the region are Russian in one form or another? ???
Besides if I wanted to touch 'Russian' I'd fly to Russia not Kiev.
Why wait for a docu if you can actually touch captured Russian vehicles in Kiev?
The text next to the tank said it had certain parts only used by the RF forces.
there are no russian soldiers in ukraine.
The text next to the tank said it had certain parts only used by the RF forces.
I was kind of hoping we could get the old thread unlocked. I liked the idea of having a single thread documenting the conflict from start to finish, or to whatever it becomes (ww3pls). Would be cool looking back and reading it years later.
Who would accept to wage a war for Ukraine?
If I got everything right Putin neither wants war nor would he be fighting for Ukraine.So it's a binary thing now. Wants war/ Wants peace. Wants Ukraine/ Does not want Ukraine.
They should share. Half for NATO, half for Russia.
They should share. Half for NATO, half for Russia.
Or.......how about Russia get the fuck out of a sovereign state?
I don't think you get this conflict. Russia is the aggressor by annexing Crimea, which isn't theirs.
They should share. Half for NATO, half for Russia.
Or.......how about Russia get the fuck out of a sovereign state?
I don't think you get this conflict. Russia is the aggressor by annexing Crimea, which isn't theirs.
Eastern Europeans don't want NATO.
Crimea belongs to Russia.
Ukraine is a fake country.
They should share. Half for NATO, half for Russia.
Or.......how about Russia get the fuck out of a sovereign state?
I don't think you get this conflict. Russia is the aggressor by annexing Crimea, which isn't theirs.
I mean
Eastern Europeans don't want NATO.
Crimea belongs to Russia.
Ukraine is a fake country.
den why are the polacks, balts, romanians, bulgars and slovaks in da natos??1?
Quidquid latine dictum, altum videtur
All of ukraine belongs to Russian Federation. Death to fascists. All ukrainian government should be hanged for treason.
All of ukraine belongs to Russian Federation. Death to fascists. All ukrainian government should be hanged for treason.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmemecrunch.com%2Fmeme%2F15AAG%2Fwtf-did-i-just-read%2Fimage.png%3Fw%3D400%26amp%3Bc%3D1&hash=ba5db636188a3b0ce61ebc13e928da9a403e5026)
Are you fighting in the ukraine, or why did you got there?
Ruskis pls.(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11021280_598458913621615_5421324897934203994_n.jpg?oh=52d61b37332a01a9f7defa69f1264657&oe=5593A0A5&__gda__=1434058191_61e94fcad8aad36992e71f9787b68b45)[close]
Duuring, Go call Dmitro now. Slava.
Can we please have the old thread back? This is lame.
Can we please have the old thread back? This is lame.
+1
beside that shit with Max, I actually thought we had something going. This thread is shit.
Cool, DeoVindice removed his nazi avatar. Now he has a fascist flag. The guy definitely likes fascist stuff.Fascist? Are you retarded....
Cool, DeoVindice removed his nazi avatar. Now he has a fascist flag. The guy definitely likes fascist stuff.
Why the fuck do you people associate the flag of the Radical Group "Right Sector" with fascism?Cool, DeoVindice removed his nazi avatar. Now he has a fascist flag. The guy definitely likes fascist stuff.
Yeah but here's the thing: who cares?
Cool, DeoVindice removed his nazi avatar. Now he has a fascist flag. The guy definitely likes fascist stuff.You are entitled to your own opinion but if that includes calling someone a fascist then it's probably better to keep it to yourself.
Cool, DeoVindice removed his nazi avatar. Now he has a fascist flag. The guy definitely likes fascist stuff.
I don't. We don't. MaxLam is the only person on this forum delusional enough to make such wild associations based on pure antifa wetdream fantasy.Just to put into perspective for any more remaining autists out there. When ukraine had the presidential elections after Yanukovich fled ukraine, Dmitro Yarosh (Leader of Right Sector) recieved 0,7 % of the votes, whereas one of the most active Jewish figures in ukraine Vadim Rabinovich recieved 2,25 % of the votes. That is more than triple the votes Dmytro Yarosh recieved, now I would like to ask you a question. How the fuck is Ukraine Fascist / in any way supporting of fascism?
Cool, DeoVindice removed his nazi avatar. Now he has a fascist flag. The guy definitely likes fascist stuff.Fascist? Are you retarded....
Right Sector is radical yes, but they are not fucking fascist. The leaders family on the mom's side is jewish are you kidding me?
You might aswell call North Korea the nation of peace with this logic.
I guess you are too, insuffisciently educated to understand what I said. By my logic, which is evident throughout history too, Fascist do not like jews, therefore 6 million of them were killed by fascists in WW2. Please enlighten me where am I mistaken?Cool, DeoVindice removed his nazi avatar. Now he has a fascist flag. The guy definitely likes fascist stuff.Fascist? Are you retarded....
Right Sector is radical yes, but they are not fucking fascist. The leaders family on the mom's side is jewish are you kidding me?
You might aswell call North Korea the nation of peace with this logic.
With your logic every fascist must eliminate Jews.
A commander of the Ukrainian neo-nazi Azov battalion and his driver were killed when they attempted to destroy a monument to those who had died fighting nazis in the second world war by ramming it with their vehicle. Instant karma.Augy I understand your point, but this is a Small Minority. I have met many people for example from the UK who are hugely fascist and they spread their passion for Fascism on the internet but I don't call each British guy Fascist do I? The Fact that there is no huge Fascist support in Ukraine is enough to say that fascism does not have enough power in Ukraine to represent it and therefore others are wrong when they call Ukraine "Fascist"
I see them for what they are, fascists because what is clear, and that has been seen during the entirety of the maidan protests from the absolute beginning. Is that they have been targetting leftists while the focus is on elsewhere.
They've toppled Lenin statues, destroyed communist party offices, burned party flags, threatened anarchists with axes and baseball bats if they tried to participate in Maidan (this was before they started carrying firearms), destroyed tent belonging to supposed Stalinists (although I'm far from a fan of stalinists, this is important to mention because it's in the same trend), pepper-sprayed feminists and torn their banners if they tried to participate. And last but not least, according to marxists they've tortured a member of the communist party.
Despite that, they still claim to want a Ukraine for Ukrainians, as mentioned in their propaganda video, but besides that they haven't acted against ethnic minorities yet.
Most likely they'll be saving that for last while the West still supports them as part of the pro-eu faction.
There have been attempts at anarchists and other leftists organizing, before the revolution stuff happened. But the militant right-wingers were too established from the beginning due to Svoboda being one of the main opposition parties.
Anarchists organized with 100 people and got greeted with with axes and baseball bats. Feminists also tried to have a presence and they got peper sprayed and their banners torn. Even Stalinists (supposed, could've been just M-L) had a camp set up and it got wrecked.
The right-wingers were not stupid in their approach to co-opting the struggle. Then the clashes with the cops started and Right Sector took position at the barricades at Hrushevskoho Street, controlling who was allowed to participate and who not, and soon after that they controlled most of the other barricades.
This is what you get when the centrist protesters tolerate all under the guise of being "apolitical".
I guess you are too, insuffisciently educated to understand what I said. By my logic, which is evident throughout history too, Fascist do not like jews, therefore 6 million of them were killed by fascists in WW2. Please enlighten me where am I mistaken?Cool, DeoVindice removed his nazi avatar. Now he has a fascist flag. The guy definitely likes fascist stuff.Fascist? Are you retarded....
Right Sector is radical yes, but they are not fucking fascist. The leaders family on the mom's side is jewish are you kidding me?
You might aswell call North Korea the nation of peace with this logic.
With your logic every fascist must eliminate Jews.
There's actually very little difference. Nazism follows fascist doctrine to a very precise margin. While Fascism does not necessarily demand racial and ethnic scapegoating in its doctrine, the singling out and targeting of some sort of societal scapegoat is pretty vital to its core existence as a working ideology. This is a system which Nazi Germany adopted its own strain of, but did not change all that much. Fascist Italy was remarkably similar to Germany in numerous ways, even without the shadow of the Holocaust looming over its legacy.I would not say that. The only big similarity was the leader principle. On this basis you could also compare Stalinism to both of it which is however even further away.
Excuse me but since when is all economic activity going to the benefit of the state? If that was so the ukrainian currency wouldn't have fallen in value so much would it? Ukraine's economy is going to shit, and there is no evidence whatsoever of the fact that all of Ukrainians Economical Activity is for the benefit of the state. Apart from the fact that our president owns a shitton of the Chocolate/Sweets marketshare with a Candy Company.
Fascism is just plain corporate rule. The state is just an extension of corporate rule under a fascist system. The orientation of all economic activity to the goals and benefit of the state.
The idea is not limited to corporations, but it involves all businesses merging with the state, so to speak. A means to an end. Under such a definition, the U.S and many western countries are already there.
Not all Fascists are anti-semite, all neo-nazi's are though. Rafael Trujillo was the fascist leader of the Domican Republic during ww2 and he accepted jewish refugees for instance.
Afaik Trujillo did this to make his people more white.Not all Fascists are anti-semite, all neo-nazi's are though. Rafael Trujillo was the fascist leader of the Domican Republic during ww2 and he accepted jewish refugees for instance.
Exactly my point.
Well there are significant differences between Fascists & Nazis.Fascism is a historical movement which appeared with Mussolini and then spread to many other countries. Nazism was a form of German fascism, probably the most dangerous and terrorist form of fascism, but still a form of fascism.
Fascism is just plain corporate rule. The state is just an extension of corporate rule under a fascist system. The orientation of all economic activity to the goals and benefit of the state.The governement of Nazi Germany is the European government that privatized the most during the 1930's.
I guess you are too, insuffisciently educated to understand what I said. By my logic, which is evident throughout history too, Fascist do not like jews, therefore 6 million of them were killed by fascists in WW2. Please enlighten me where am I mistaken?
Not all Fascists are anti-semite, all neo-nazi's are though. Rafael Trujillo was the fascist leader of the Domican Republic during ww2 and he accepted jewish refugees for instance.
They are giving a platform to fascists, which is unacceptable. You can't be pragmatic with these peeps because they live for violence.
I love how some of these Azov guys and other neonazis in Ukraine think they're somehow Aryans or something because they subscribe to Hitler's beliefs. Protip for them: they're still slavshits. Just because the Nazis employed Ukrainians and other eastern Europeans for practical reasons doesn't mean they're not untermensch. The eternal Slav lives on.Slavshits? I am really surprised how you aren't Watched/Muted yet on this forum, huge insult of an ethnicity.
LolI would be ashamed if I were you, Racsim is related to low IQ, something which I believe you may have
You rustled his Slavic jimmies, boy.Oh no...he might...
Thank you.You're Welcome,
*offensive.Yay Duuring is über mod
All jokes rest aside, this is a thread about Ukraine, not a place to discuss what or what not is fascism. I'll open the old thread when I'm home and combine the two, on Nipplestockings request.
Please don't use the word retard. It's offense.Out of all people, you.....
Not so secret now is it?
Like, what a horrible thing to say to people you barely know
How
Could
You
All jokes rest aside, this is a thread about Ukraine, not a place to discuss what or what not is fascism.We were discussing fascism in Ukraine, so it's obvious that we have to define fascism.
Thank you.You're Welcome,
I secretly wish that some of you shits who keep being racist towards ukraine and making jokes about it go into the Warzone and try to survive there at-18 C temperatures fighting the russian Military tasked with the mission "Fuck Ukraine"
You are probably too close to this whole thing but nothing that is said in this forum can affect the situation in Ukraine in any form or harm your countrymen.Thank you.You're Welcome,
I secretly wish that some of you shits who keep being racist towards ukraine and making jokes about it go into the Warzone and try to survive there at-18 C temperatures fighting the russian Military tasked with the mission "Fuck Ukraine"
Nonetheless there are some internet soldiers among us who like to think they are "fighting" for a good cause.
[/quote
I am a Volounteer for an organisation that sorts rations for families that fled eastern ukraine. I go there during the weekends for 3 hours to sort rations which adds up to around me alone sorting 150 bags of food for 150 families of different size, and that is my contribution to my country's freedom. What was yours?
I secretly wish that some of you shits blah blah blah.
I think the situation in Germany is slightly more complicated than the one in Ukraine. The main reason is probably that political education is everything but existent. 70 years of stultification leave some impact.I am a Volounteer for an organisation that sorts rations for families that fled eastern ukraine. I go there during the weekends for 3 hours to sort rations which adds up to around me alone sorting 150 bags of food for 150 families of different size, and that is my contribution to my country's freedom. What was yours?You are probably too close to this whole thing but nothing that is said in this forum can affect the situation in Ukraine in any form or harm your countrymen.Thank you.You're Welcome,
I secretly wish that some of you shits who keep being racist towards ukraine and making jokes about it go into the Warzone and try to survive there at-18 C temperatures fighting the russian Military tasked with the mission "Fuck Ukraine"
Nonetheless there are some internet soldiers among us who like to think they are "fighting" for a good cause.
I think the situation in Germany is slightly more complicated than the one in Ukraine. The main reason is probably that political education is everything but existent. 70 years of stultification leave some impact.This basically means that Turin misses Nazi Germany which had a better education system, in his humble opinion of course.
I think the situation in Germany is slightly more complicated than the one in Ukraine. The main reason is probably that political education is everything but existent. 70 years of stultification leave some impact.I am a Volounteer for an organisation that sorts rations for families that fled eastern ukraine. I go there during the weekends for 3 hours to sort rations which adds up to around me alone sorting 150 bags of food for 150 families of different size, and that is my contribution to my country's freedom. What was yours?You are probably too close to this whole thing but nothing that is said in this forum can affect the situation in Ukraine in any form or harm your countrymen.Thank you.You're Welcome,
I secretly wish that some of you shits who keep being racist towards ukraine and making jokes about it go into the Warzone and try to survive there at-18 C temperatures fighting the russian Military tasked with the mission "Fuck Ukraine"
Nonetheless there are some internet soldiers among us who like to think they are "fighting" for a good cause.
Quote from: Turin TurambarI think the situation in Germany is slightly more complicated than the one in Ukraine. The main reason is probably that political education is everything but existent. 70 years of stultification leave some impact.This basically means that Turin misses Nazi Germany which had a better education system, in his humble opinion of course.
Allright boys. Behave.Yessum massa
Allright boys. Behave.
MaxLam, which side are you on? I forgot.
Turin, which side are you on? I forgot.
The rebels were making gains before the ceasefire was declared, not the Ukrainian Army.
I think it was 50/50. The Western Ukrainians were surrounded inside the town.facepalm.jpg
Maxlam, there are plenty of Ukrainians from the east fighting on the Ukrainian side. There are even Russians fighting on the Ukrainian side. You're just showing your ignorance.
The fate of devaltsebe didn't have to be settled. Everybody agreed to 'current positions'. The separatists then claimed Devaltsebe was theirs and continued fighting even though the ceasefire had gone in effect.
Maxlam, there are plenty of Ukrainians from the east fighting on the Ukrainian side. There are even Russians fighting on the Ukrainian side. You're just showing your ignorance.Bullshit, it's, in my perspective, quite fucking obvious he means the Ukrainian Government & military. I have no doubt he would describe the seperatists as eastern ukraines.
The fate of devaltsebe didn't have to be settled. Everybody agreed to 'current positions'. The separatists then claimed Devaltsebe was theirs and continued fighting even though the ceasefire had gone in effect.
Russia is eastern? Not really.
You seem to be under the impression this is a civil war. It isn't.
devaltsebe
Duuring, according to you the fact that "There are even Russians fighting on the Ukrainian side" is sufficient to reject the expression "Western Ukraine" to describe the western side, which is both geographically and politically western. And yet you are implying that the guys fighting the Western Ukrainians are "Russians" and that there is no civil war, as if all Ukrainians supported the western side. So basically you attacked me for something you did yourself in a more blatant manner, for I never said that there is only Ukrainians from the West on the Western side.
This war is substantially both a civil war and a war between Russian interests on the eastern side, and EU/NATO interests on the Western side. If you believe that all the guys fighting Poroshenko and his friends are Russians, you must have been brainwashed. I can admit that some Russian troops are probably fighting alongside local separatists, but saying more than that would be silly.
devaltsebe
laughing_katsaps.gif
Ban Duuring from this thread please.
I can admit that some Russian troops are probably fighting alongside local separatists, but saying more than that would be silly.The U.S. military estimates around 12,000 Russian soldiers are supporting pro-Moscow separatists in eastern Ukraine, U.S. Army Europe Commander Ben Hodges said on Tuesday. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/03/us-ukraine-russia-soldiers-idUSKBN0LZ2FV20150303)
That's according to a "U.S. commander", and I'm not a U.S. commander. According to Putin there is none, and I have no reason to trust a "U.S. commander" any more than I would trust Putin himself.I can admit that some Russian troops are probably fighting alongside local separatists, but saying more than that would be silly.The U.S. military estimates around 12,000 Russian soldiers are supporting pro-Moscow separatists in eastern Ukraine, U.S. Army Europe Commander Ben Hodges said on Tuesday. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/03/us-ukraine-russia-soldiers-idUSKBN0LZ2FV20150303)
To much for "some Russian troops" and for probably :)
I want to move to Donetsk and fight for freedom.You need to be employed in the Russian army to do that ;)
No, he can be here as a "opolchenec"I want to move to Donetsk and fight for freedom.You need to be employed in the Russian army to do that ;)
And do you trust to the Russian soldier, if he told that they were sent here directly by their commanders after months of training as a formed unit?Are you refering to those who crossed the border and were repelled some months ago?QuoteNo, he can be here as a "opolchenec"I want to move to Donetsk and fight for freedom.You need to be employed in the Russian army to do that ;)
If I (American) went to ukraine and fought would thier be an uproar in Russia?
If I (American) went to ukraine and fought would thier be an uproar in Russia?
There are plenty of Americans fighting on both sides of the conflict. Nobody cares as long as it's not a government action.
KürassierNixon on his great crusade for mother Russia. He is an even better internet soldier than EdwardC.
Your request is being reviewed and will be processed as soon as possible.
Funny, this is probably first time I see this statue... Introduced to me by an internet troll.
The Motherland Calls is the coolest fuckin statue. Man. Just envisioning the fact that it's set on the exact point on the Mamayev Kurgan where German and Russian divisions clashed for the heights overlooking the city. It's like she's actually beckoning to the Russian nation, calling it forward into the fray.
Are you refering to those who crossed the border and were repelled some months ago?There are more recent examples, i.e. from link (https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=12926.msg953203#msg953203) i give here few post ago - an interview with burnt buryat tankman, GTranslated enough to understand
Nice profile pic dude. and pft.
(https://i.imgur.com/rIdBnug.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/M8hcObs.png)Your request is being reviewed and will be processed as soon as possible.
Thanks.
So uh, does anyone still view the separatist movement as self determination?
Isn't that the statue in Wołgograd?It's The Motherland Calls right outside Stalingrad. Powerful symbol of resistance.
QuoteIsn't that the statue in Wołgograd?It's The Motherland Calls right outside Stalingrad. Powerful symbol of resistance.
Nice profile pic dude. and pft.
exactly lmao. i hope to dear god no one believes that these idiots in donbass are fighting for their freedom and right to self determination rofl.
So uh, does anyone still view the separatist movement as self determination?Are you a nazi too?
Anyone can have a claim to self determination, as long as they have the force to back it up.
we'll go right back into the post-WW1 situation.
Because 'self-determination' doesn't say what is a state, what is not, or what self-determination really means; independence, autonomy, or just taking part in the government. Let's not forget that 'self-determination' didn't exist until a century ago. It's not some sort of nature law, it's a creation. States loving holding claims to 'international law' because it's international law that dictates souvereignity. Yet the irony of it is that the argument was meant to protect small countries from big countries, and didn't really take into account the idea that dictators and other 'bad' regimes would exercise the right to souvereignity to terrorize their people.You confuse the act of determination itself and the right to self-determination. Having a right to self-determination only means that you can decide your own fate. Nothing more. This right is a derivative of the so-called "natural rights" (I hope you don't actually believe that those rights are natural and not a construction). Indeed, there is no complete freedom if you are oppressed in your national identity.
All in all, international law is shite and the fact we're still using it is because some people benefit from it. Take away international law and we'll go right back into the post-WW1 situation.
some actions were taken against Russian languageAren't we done with it yet?
For example, the inhabitants of New Caledonia don't have a state, they are part of France. However, since we are not fascists and abandoned colonialism a long time ago, we recognize their right to self-determination and they will have the possibility to secede and become an independant country with its own state.And what about Corsica, Breton? Looks like you do not want to recognize their right to self-determination that much, since they even created radical organizations and betake to the acts of terrorism :) ?
You do need to be a state to claim self-determination. If a certain part of a state wants independence, the government of the state is allowed to crack down on them as hard as they want. Like the Russians did in Chechnya.When the Algerians claimed their right to self-determination, they were part of France. And yet that's exactly what we call self-determination. You confuse sovereignty and self-determination.
Quote from: DuuringYou do need to be a state to claim self-determination. If a certain part of a state wants independence, the government of the state is allowed to crack down on them as hard as they want. Like the Russians did in Chechnya.When the Algerians claimed their right to self-determination, they were part of France. And yet that's exactly what we call self-determination. You confuse sovereignty and self-determination.
You make no sense. You do realise France fought a brutal war against Algeria when they wanted to become an independent state, along the lines of self-determination due to them being a seperate linguistic, ethnic, culture identities along with being on another continent... And then France doesnt support any independence movements from Corsica, and labels the 'freedom' fighters as terrorists just like in Ukraine.France has the second biggest maritime boundaries in the world which represent an incredible geostrategic and economic opportunity. That's all thanks to the "fucking islands on the other side of the planet", because even a tiny fucking island has an enormous EEZ. You insult people without knowing, that's a shame but not surprising. France isn't "supporting" the independance movement, it's recognizing the right of the inhabitants of New Caledonia to self-determination. That's totally different.
Your example of New Caledonia is so irrelevant it's laughable. A fucking island on the other side of the planet that France has no real benefit of owning and you think that France is being some kind of savior by allowing an island that couldn't exist by itself to be an independent nation (IF they wanted to)?
And what about Corsica, Breton? Looks like you do not want to recognize their right to self-determination that much, since they even created radical organizations and betake to the acts of terrorism :) ?Every people has a right to self-determination. In the case of Brittany and Corsica it wouldn't be democratic to make a referendum because an insignificant part of the population wants it. However if an increasing number of people started struggling for this, the French people would probably do as the English did with Scotland.
And what about Corsica, Breton? Looks like you do not want to recognize their right to self-determination that much, since they even created radical organizations and betake to the acts of terrorism :) ?For a Frenchman, the idea that Corsica could be anything else than French is laughable, especially since Napoleon himself was Corsican. As for Brittany, this makes no sense. We couldn't imagine our country without Cosmao-Kerjulien, Kerguelen, Anne de Bretagne queen of France. But of course every people has a right to self determination, and if they want their independance, we might consider it. The problem is that there is no Breton people anymore. The overwhelming majority of Bretons don't speak Breton, which has almost disappeared. Therefore it's not possible to compare those regions to New Caledonia, which was/is a colony, and certainly not to the eastern regions of Ukraine, in which most of the population don't speak the national language and where an important part of the population has taken arms against the government.
Algeria and Caledonia are overseas colonies. Crimea isn't.Algeria was a French territory divided into départements just like the rest of the French territory. From the point of view of the French government, and the French supportive of this government, Algeria was part of the metropolis. It wasn't a colony. It had been a French territory for more than 100 years. Crimea however, was gifted to Ukraine not so long ago, and moreover they had an important autonomy. In both cases some people thought that this was their territory because they owned it since a few decades but never asked the opinion of the inhabitants.
QuoteYou make no sense. You do realise France fought a brutal war against Algeria when they wanted to become an independent state, along the lines of self-determination due to them being a seperate linguistic, ethnic, culture identities along with being on another continent... And then France doesnt support any independence movements from Corsica, and labels the 'freedom' fighters as terrorists just like in Ukraine.France has the second biggest maritime boundaries in the world which represent an incredible geostrategic and economic opportunity. That's all thanks to the "fucking islands on the other side of the planet", because even a tiny fucking island has an enormous EEZ. You insult people without knowing, that's a shame but not surprising. France isn't "supporting" the independance movement, it's recognizing the right of the inhabitants of New Caledonia to self-determination. That's totally different.
Your example of New Caledonia is so irrelevant it's laughable. A fucking island on the other side of the planet that France has no real benefit of owning and you think that France is being some kind of savior by allowing an island that couldn't exist by itself to be an independent nation (IF they wanted to)?
What it's called is meaningless.Just because people give a shit about it it's not outdated.
Basically, self-determination is outdated by roughly...70 years? Dunno why we still cling on to it.
Ok then show me what this 'enormous geostrategic opportunity' is doing for France? All they have to lose is an island and an invisible boundary somewhere on the other side of the planet.Nickel on the island, and maybe oil in the so-called "invisible boundary", which is still a EEZ.
It is more interesting to see what happens when it's closer to home, i.e. Corsica where the separatist movement there are branded terrorists.No I answered to Suede who made the same point. Moreover we call them independantists, not terrorists. Independantists are allowed to run in elections in both regions. There is some bombings every year, but only a part of the independantists are doing that, it's rare that those bombings target civilians or actually kill people. Comparing that to actual terrorist activities, like what is happening in the Middle East, would be a real shame.
Plus i saw how you circumvented my part about Corsica, not really surprised though. It's quite obvious you're defending France like a little mug.
Shit, for some reason I completely glossed over it because of his spelling. Fuckin Poles.
Still waiting for when Putin sets foot in a neutral country and ww3 begins. I'm going to give or take 10 yearsWhy should there be a WW3 if Russia would invade a neutral country while America did the same around a hundred times since the end of WW2?
I demand Breton independence!It won't happen - Russia is too far away and do not bothers about, so it willn't sent their 'green polite men' to provide fair and democratic referendum with acceptable results :P
Still waiting for when Putin sets foot in a neutral country and ww3 begins. I'm going to give or take 10 yearsWhy should there be a WW3 if Russia would invade a neutral country while America did the same around a hundred times since the end of WW2?
I don't need an explanation. I just wanted to set the focus on the circumstance that America would be "allowed" to start a nuclear war if Russia fucks things up while the opposite isn't true and it wasn't; even with the Soviet Union.Still waiting for when Putin sets foot in a neutral country and ww3 begins. I'm going to give or take 10 yearsWhy should there be a WW3 if Russia would invade a neutral country while America did the same around a hundred times since the end of WW2?
Do you seriously need someone to explain this to you? What is your obsession with Russia anyway? It seems like your motivation for supporting Russia doesn't extend much further beyond some teenage "Ohaahh putin iz cool + vodka" fantasy.
Lol, so if we speaking about France separatist movement - independent Corsica is laughable, independent Breton makes no sence, but for Ukraine case - everyone here can have the right to self-determination and what now happen is ok. Fair enough :)Exactly, because comparing Brittany to the Eastern regions of Ukraine is also laughable. For example there is only 35 000 people who speak Breton everyday, for a total population of about 4.5 million if we also include Loire-Atlantique (Nantes). And I have never met one in my life.
https://tropyhistorii.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/220px-ssnederland.jpgI think my grandfather killed some of those rats, in the Netherlands.
Quotehttps://tropyhistorii.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/220px-ssnederland.jpgI think my grandfather killed some of those rats, in the Netherlands.
there were no French forces in the Netherlands anyway.Duuring, you are too young. You still have to learn about your own country.
You don't have to be very old to do a simple google search and find the deployment of Free French forces in ww2.Most of the time, the older you are, the more cultured you are. That's perfectly normal. But why don't you try to answer this wis a google search, and help Duuring? We will see then the power of Google.
or are you saying he's not mature enough to argue with you?
MaxLam, do you suddenly need to speak another language in order to have a claim? That would kinda ironic since French was enforced upon minorities (Oppression), just like Russian was forced upon the people of the Soviet union.Mmm that's not totally true. Actually until the end of the 19th century most inhabitants of France didn't have French as their native language, and many didn't speak French at all. French spread during the 20th century, and Breton disappeared during the second half of the 20th century without any kind of oppresion. The inhabitants of Brittany were not opposed to French rule. Even during the Revolution, they never claimed their independance, they supported the French king instead. Why would they anyway? That already happened to them once a long time ago. First they fought against the Roman Empire in Great Britain, then they fought for the Roman Empire at the Limes, on the Rhine. And they eventually became some of the most faithful defenders of the Empire. It is said that even after the fall of the Empire, Roman patriotism remained strong for decades in Brittany, especially since there was Senatorial families there.
http://This is all I could find.That's it, thank you. Amherst was a commando operation of the French SAS in the Netherlands, the biggest SAS operation during WWII I believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Amherst
I love how you say that eastern Ukraine has the right to secede because they have that wish (heavily influenced by propaganda), yet find every possible excuse why regions of France can't.
International law does allow for succession, like for example in the case of Scotland; In accordance with the sovereign government (of the UK) and with both sides being able to campaign. Something that was not possible in Crimea.
This is all I could find.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_AmherstSpoiler(https://i.imgur.com/wYnUlpY.png)[close]
Was your grandfather in the French SAS?
Of course, it just happens that Maxlam Grandfather served in the only French unit in the only French mission in my country. Well, that would make your granddaddy a liar since no Dutch SS was even close to the area where this mission happened.When I said "rats" I didn't mean Dutch SS in particular of course, I don't even remember which units were there.
implying you ever knewI have books at home of course.
Edit: I send it to Admiral who confirms it's the other way around. Yellow marks is what is sent to the national budget, blue is what the region receives. As you can see, Luhansk and Donetsk are huge drains on the budget, just like Crimea. You should check your sources better.Damn it, I was going to point that out >:( As you can see, losing the three green eastern regions would be a huge economic loss for Ukraine.
NATO should help Ukraine. Military ofc.
If NATO won't help UA, Putin will conquer them and next will be Lithuania etc.. Than we will have war.NATO should help Ukraine. Military ofc.
yes pls war is kewl
If NATO won't help UA, Putin will conquer them and next will be Lithuania etc.. Than we will have war.NATO should help Ukraine. Military ofc.
yes pls war is kewl
But i understand your point Turin. We don't want to have war.
If NATO won't help UA, Putin will conquer them and next will be Lithuania etc.. Than we will have war.NATO should help Ukraine. Military ofc.
yes pls war is kewl
But i understand your point Turin. We don't want to have war.
Putin would be a retard if he'd try to conquer Lithuania or other eastern European nations.
And retards aren't intelligent enough to become the president of the Russian federation.
I don't see how that makes me a "childish twat". That's a strange behaviour for a moderator.
So the West has been outmaneuvered several times now by some chap with autism? D:
I'd hate to see what a fully functioning Russian presidential authoritarian can do then D:
But he also protests against democratic things like the right of self-determination. I'm very confused now.I don't see how that makes me a "childish twat". That's a strange behaviour for a moderator.
I find it funny how Duuring protests against general incompetence and undemocratic things. I mean that's how he got to be a mod in the first place.
But he also protests against democratic things like the right of self-determination. I'm very confused now.
Secretly I'm a neo-nazi.
Har har har.
America tells everyone He has aspergers. It's a social disorder, not an intellectual one. People with aspergers generally have higher than average IQ but have trouble picking up on social queues and resist changes to routine. Whether or not this affects Putin's political policy is debatable, but I really don't think aspergers is severe enough of a condition for it to be noticeable outside of private gatherings and the like.
Nah, it was more a shitpost from my side.But he also protests against democratic things like the right of self-determination. I'm very confused now.
Hes very pro NATO did you expect him to be consistent when it comes to rights and freedom?
It is said that Lenin had a form of autism too. He used to bang his head on the floor when he was a child.
Wow, didn't know there was also international Spiegel propaganda.
But I like how a lot of German politicians make a retreat in the Ukraine conflict since the beginning of 2015.
You are totally right about western media Turin. They are biased and shouldn't be trusted any more than Eastern media. For example, if you type "war in Georgia" in google, you will find this. It's on the NYT website, and you can find it on almost every important western information website.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgraphics8.nytimes.com%2Fimages%2F2010%2F12%2F02%2Fworld%2F02georgia-web1%2F02georgia-web1-articleLarge.jpg&hash=dbe335731c01c3f8a118b8ff4ac8fc6542b77f94)
Do you know what's wrong with this picture?
http://Excellent argumentation: you use asingle photo to validate an entire medium!It means they can't be totally trusted. And moreover it's not just a picture on a single website, it's a picture on almost all important western media which is only since 2008. This is called war propaganda.
You must feel so good about yourself.
Just because their photos are legit, does not mean their conclusions are.
Western people often believe that there is no war propaganda on their side. But they are wrong.
Got anything to back that up?
The fact that they believe that? Or the fact that there is war propaganda?Western people often believe that there is no war propaganda on their side. But they are wrong.
Got anything to back that up?
The point of 'free media' isn't that all media centers are unbiased. The point of free media is that nobody is restricting anyone from spreading or receiving news from a certain news outlet.Free media as I understand it also imply a certain amount of media independance and objectivity.
The point of 'free media' isn't that all media centers are unbiased. The point of free media is that nobody is restricting anyone from spreading or receiving news from a certain news outlet.
Western people often believe that there is no war propaganda on their side. But they are wrong.
Got anything to back that up?
The point of 'free media' isn't that all media centers are unbiased. The point of free media is that nobody is restricting anyone from spreading or receiving news from a certain news outlet.
Or for paying for it to have a particular spin. A bought and paid for media gets the job done just as readily though one could argue its the lesser evil in principle.
http://theagendadaily.com/gekaufte-journalisten-german-book-will-rock-world/
If you force people to be independent and objective then media isn't free, it's restricted. Free media means they can do/write whatever they they want, what people choose to listen to is their choice.I'm not changing the definition. It has been like that since a very long time. You don't need to "force" people, there is other ways to make sure that media remain independent and objective such as public funding, which is what we do in France for the press and doesn't mean state-controlled. If your media isn't independent, it can't be called a free media.
holy shit this is getting annoying, you cant just change definitions of a word to suit yourself...
The Separatist had an T-34 --> Ukrainian troops fought agains an T-34.
Red Army in WW2 had T-34 --> Wehrmacht & SS fought agains an T-34.
Wehrmacht & SS were Nazis --> Ukraine is Nazi.
The fact that they believe that.The fact that they believe that? Or the fact that there is war propaganda?Western people often believe that there is no war propaganda on their side. But they are wrong.
Got anything to back that up?
Then move to Russia and worship Putin in wondrous Khrushchev commieblocks created for the glory of the people.
Or just grow up and stop falling for propaganda which is created and aimed at people exactly like you. You're being bamboozled by Putin.
That was to Turin.
Only the most loyal Putin worshipers are allowed into the sacred commieblock enclave. Prove your worth as a loyal Putinbot and one day you too may be admitted into the realm of the ethereal vodka blackout dream.
Only the most loyal Putin worshipers are allowed into the sacred commieblock enclave. Prove your worth as a loyal Putinbot and one day you too may be admitted into the realm of the ethereal vodka blackout dream.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOohgYcZRZg&index=15That post, my good sir, have made my day.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-the-malaysian-airlines-mh17-boeing-was-shot-down-examination-of-the-wreckage/5435094
http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-the-malaysian-airlines-mh17-boeing-was-shot-down-examination-of-the-wreckage/5435094
that englishNice punctuation skills you have there, my little far right-wing buddy.
oh look, another turd who doesnt understand forum humourthat offends me as someone who's free (i.e. American)
If somebody could please give me a detailed illustrated report about why it wasn't that way and why it were the rebels?
What do you mean "there is none"?
If somebody could please give me a detailed illustrated report about why it wasn't that way and why it were the rebels?
What do you mean "there is none"?
Look Mh17 reeks of a false flag operation. Russia and the rebels had nothing to gain from it and Ukraine also posses the BUK missile system. In fact they sold some to Georgia a while back.
Finally the rebels and Russians say there was at least 1 Ukrainian plane close to MH17 during the incident.
Maybe they were trying to shoot down that Ukrainian plane? Maybe that Ukrainian plane shot down MH17? Maybe a Ukrainian BUK system shot down MH17. Maybe the Russians shot down MH17 by accident.
I doubt the rebels had the capability to operate the BUK system and this is why it was probably Russians or Ukrainians that shot it down.
Unfortunately the MH17 incident is literally useless to this whole debate on which side we should debate.
Nothing is more irritating to me than the retarded fantastical reverence some of you idiots hold for one side or the other that hardly goes farther than who wears the better uniform, or who has a cooler looking flag. What the fuck is wrong with you faggots?
SpoilerIf you actually read the report they state it's highly unlikely it was a BUK due to the fragmentation damage and the destruction of the fuselage along with damage to the cockpit. What they think is more likely is damage from large caliber autocannons fitted to a common Ukrainian or Russian SU25 (23-30mm). The rounds supposedly went through the engine and the travellef into the cockpit killing both pilots explaining why there was no radio signals.
A bit far fetched but the physical evidence they have is correct but as to how it happened its still just a theory.
I doubt it was false flag, rather a mistake by either Ukrainian or Russian pilots.[close]
Nothing is more irritating to me than the retarded fantastical reverence some of you idiots hold for one side or the other that hardly goes farther than who wears the better uniform, or who has a cooler looking flag. What the fuck is wrong with you faggots?
SpoilerIf you actually read the report they state it's highly unlikely it was a BUK due to the fragmentation damage and the destruction of the fuselage along with damage to the cockpit. What they think is more likely is damage from large caliber autocannons fitted to a common Ukrainian or Russian SU25 (23-30mm). The rounds supposedly went through the engine and the travellef into the cockpit killing both pilots explaining why there was no radio signals.
A bit far fetched but the physical evidence they have is correct but as to how it happened its still just a theory.
I doubt it was false flag, rather a mistake by either Ukrainian or Russian pilots.[close]
I fully agree and I've read about the autocannon theory I just didn't know it was now considered plausible and not just something people would dismiss as Russian propaganda?
I must ask. How can you mistakenly shoot down a civilian plane with your autocannon?
Well i'm assuming they likely did it from range within clouds without having a visual on the plane thus making it just an identified aircraft within the airspace of a war.
Why don't we just wait until the research team comes with the results?
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/krieg-in-der-ukraine-mh-wurde-vom-boden-aus-abgeschossen-1.2386385The only argument that has been stated why it could not have been the Su-25 is that the Su can't reach the appropriate height. This is just wrong. Its not like the aircraft would suddenly fall out of the sky. Even propeller-driven aircraft are capable of reaching 10km or more. The Su can easily climb onto 14km.
I'm sure you know more about the Su-25 then the guy who just designed it.If you are capable of designing an aircraft it does not mean you are no liar.
That Haisenko guy says Russia showed evidence of a Ukrainian SU-25 shooting down MH-17. Does he mean the now famous and very badly photoshopped image that circles around the internet?Afaik he later said that it probably had been a fake photo. Nonetheless I don't judge him that he believed it was right because it would had fit perfectly into his insights.
+1Spoilerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5FfJ89rGPc[close]
Why don't we just wait until the research team comes with the results?
Which research team?
Will they release black box recordings?
Will the U.S release it's satellite images?
Dutch-run research team.
The Netherlands, unlike the Americans , Ukrainians and Russians they only have one interest in the outcome of the matter: finding out what happened to the 198 Dutch in that plane. The Netherlands has no interest in picking a side, rather they have an interest in the entire conflict sooner rather than later. That is why a Dutch team makes for as an objective one as you can get.
They probably will. Why?
Dutch-run research team.
The Netherlands, unlike the Americans , Ukrainians and Russians they only have one interest in the outcome of the matter: finding out what happened to the 198 Dutch in that plane. The Netherlands have no interest in picking a side, rather they have an interest in the entire conflict sooner rather than later. That is why a Dutch team makes for as an objective one as you can get.
Netherlands is an original NATO member. Netherlands already has picked a side.They probably will. Why?
It's obviously important?
only countries pointing fingers are Ukraine, Russia and the US.
c) The R-60 hit one of the engines first and thus lowering MH17's overall speed prior to being finished off with cannon fire.
Quoteonly countries pointing fingers are Ukraine, Russia and the US.
Lol what?
It's obviously important?
I really don't see how orignal NATO member has anything to do with that.
France is an orignal NATO member, and has barely taken a side. The only countries pointing fingers are Ukraine, Russia and the US.
Is anyone really taking the 'They wanted to shoot down Putin!' theory serious?
Is anyone really taking the 'They wanted to shoot down Putin!' theory serious?
Ukraine isnt at war with Russia because there are no Russian Soldiers in Ukraine that aren't said to be volunteers.
When entire Russian units come home in body bags or simply disappear. I think it's safe to assume that they weren't volunteers.
When entire Russian units come home in body bags or simply disappear. I think it's safe to assume that they weren't volunteers.
Because volunteers don't die?
is putin finally kaput? hue?
Ukraine isnt at war with Russia because there are no Russian Soldiers in Ukraine that are not volunteers.
Slightly related: Putin hasn't appeared in public for a week now, public appearance of him today was cancelled, officials could not say when he is going to re-appear again, and today and yesterday there has been a sharp rise of helicopter flights around the Kremlin - Even in front of the National Control centre of Defense.
Is it happening?
http://joinfo.com/world/1001644_President-Putin-is-alive-but-feels-very-bad.html
There is a fat Azov nazi guarding Mariupol and it glorious mayor. The city is safe.
There is a fat Azov nazi guarding Mariupol and it glorious mayor. The city is safe.
You underestimate the power of wolfsangel, you bear the symbol and it magically gives you the speed and agility to overwhelm your enemies....as long you don't invade Russia.
Slava Ukraini.
fuck any color socks #FreeFeetThere is a fat Azov nazi guarding Mariupol and it glorious mayor. The city is safe.
You underestimate the power of wolfsangel, you bear the symbol and it magically gives you the speed and agility to overwhelm your enemies....as long you don't invade Russia.
Slava Ukraini.
Fuck the redsox
You're retarded.
I hope the POWs are getting payed.
"There are detailed rules in international law for the treatment of prisoners of war set out in the Third Geneva Convention of 1949. Most of the restrictions on civilian employment detailed above also apply to them; beyond this, the Geneva Conventions specify that POWs forced to work must be paid a wage, unless their work involves only the maintenance or administration of their place of detention. They cannot be forced to do degrading, unhealthy, or dangerous work. Military officers cannot be forced to work."
And since when has the US cared about this in the past, to name a country?
I recall gitmo, which I think you could see as degrading.
You're retarded.I doubt they have signed it.
I hope the POWs are getting payed.
"There are detailed rules in international law for the treatment of prisoners of war set out in the Third Geneva Convention of 1949. Most of the restrictions on civilian employment detailed above also apply to them; beyond this, the Geneva Conventions specify that POWs forced to work must be paid a wage, unless their work involves only the maintenance or administration of their place of detention. They cannot be forced to do degrading, unhealthy, or dangerous work. Military officers cannot be forced to work."
Non-state actors are not expected to fulfill human rights obligations to the same extent as states, and the situation around the Donetsk airport could constitute (or be made to appear to constitute) a lack of resources that would necessitate the full utilization of available manpower, prisoners of war included. If it comes to pass that they can excavate all the dead without suffering casualties, all the while being fed and clothed and secure from the elements, then the case against the insurgents would be more difficult to make. It's curious to see how they'll be "paid" for their labour though.
Also for what it's worth, The Donetsk People's Republic and/or Novorossiya - in so far as they constitute states - are not signatories of the Geneva Conventions.
Terrorism suspects are in no way covered by the geneva conventions. They're international criminals, not soldiers.No, they are people who get abducted from their home countries against international law and then are tortured like we did it in the middle ages.
Terrorism suspects are in no way covered by the geneva conventions. They're international criminals, not soldiers.No, they are people that get abducted from their home countries against international law.
Islamic extremism is a product of western imperialism. And it's not like these people are proven to be terrorists.Terrorism suspects are in no way covered by the geneva conventions. They're international criminals, not soldiers.No, they are people that get abducted from their home countries against international law.
You see, I would almost feel bad for them if it wasn't for, you know, all the terrorist attacks and loss of innocent life... But what do I know, right?
Terrorism suspects are in no way covered by the geneva conventions. They're international criminals, not soldiers.No, they are people who get abducted from their home countries against international law and then are tortured like we did it in the middle ages.
Nothing at all.Terrorism suspects are in no way covered by the geneva conventions. They're international criminals, not soldiers.No, they are people who get abducted from their home countries against international law and then are tortured like we did it in the middle ages.
Sure, I agree with you. Now explain how the US has anything to do with the DNR following the guidelines of the geneva conventions.
Islamic extremism is a product of western imperialism. And it's not like these people are proven to be terrorists.Terrorism suspects are in no way covered by the geneva conventions. They're international criminals, not soldiers.No, they are people that get abducted from their home countries against international law.
You see, I would almost feel bad for them if it wasn't for, you know, all the terrorist attacks and loss of innocent life... But what do I know, right?Spoiler(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BksJgThCEAA94HR.jpg)[close]
Nothing at all.Terrorism suspects are in no way covered by the geneva conventions. They're international criminals, not soldiers.No, they are people who get abducted from their home countries against international law and then are tortured like we did it in the middle ages.
Sure, I agree with you. Now explain how the US has anything to do with the DNR following the guidelines of the geneva conventions.
So, innocent people deserve to die now because of pricks from past generations? Anyway, this is incredibly off topic, can we drop this?
Anyway can we drop this, it's incredibly of
At first I was wondering why you were talking about past generations. Then I realized you really thought I meant former European colonialism.Islamic extremism is a product of western imperialism. And it's not like these people are proven to be terrorists.Terrorism suspects are in no way covered by the geneva conventions. They're international criminals, not soldiers.No, they are people that get abducted from their home countries against international law.
You see, I would almost feel bad for them if it wasn't for, you know, all the terrorist attacks and loss of innocent life... But what do I know, right?Spoiler(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BksJgThCEAA94HR.jpg)[close]
So, innocent people deserve to die now because of pricks from past generations?
Terrorism suspects are in no way covered by the geneva conventions. They're international criminals, not soldiers.No, they are people who get abducted from their home countries against international law and then are tortured like we did it in the middle ages.
Sure, I agree with you. Now explain how the US has anything to do with the DNR following the guidelines of the geneva conventions.
Terrorism suspects are in no way covered by the geneva conventions. They're international criminals, not soldiers.No, they are people who get abducted from their home countries against international law and then are tortured like we did it in the middle ages.
Sure, I agree with you. Now explain how the US has anything to do with the DNR following the guidelines of the geneva conventions.
I meant that because there is a Geneva convention, doesn't mean that anyone cares. I just think it's hypocritical to accuse states of violating it while you've done it yourself.
(and the US is indeed a Geneva convention signatory)
Terrorism suspects are in no way covered by the geneva conventions. They're international criminals, not soldiers.No, they are people who get abducted from their home countries against international law and then are tortured like we did it in the middle ages.
Sure, I agree with you. Now explain how the US has anything to do with the DNR following the guidelines of the geneva conventions.
I meant that because there is a Geneva convention, doesn't mean that anyone cares. I just think it's hypocritical to accuse states of violating it while you've done it yourself.
(and the US is indeed a Geneva convention signatory)
Since when is every citizen responsible for the actions of their government?
Terrorism suspects are in no way covered by the geneva conventions. They're international criminals, not soldiers.No, they are people who get abducted from their home countries against international law and then are tortured like we did it in the middle ages.
Sure, I agree with you. Now explain how the US has anything to do with the DNR following the guidelines of the geneva conventions.
I meant that because there is a Geneva convention, doesn't mean that anyone cares. I just think it's hypocritical to accuse states of violating it while you've done it yourself.
(and the US is indeed a Geneva convention signatory)
Since when is every citizen responsible for the actions of their government?
Never, since when did I say?
Terrorism suspects are in no way covered by the geneva conventions. They're international criminals, not soldiers.No, they are people who get abducted from their home countries against international law and then are tortured like we did it in the middle ages.
Sure, I agree with you. Now explain how the US has anything to do with the DNR following the guidelines of the geneva conventions.
I meant that because there is a Geneva convention, doesn't mean that anyone cares. I just think it's hypocritical to accuse states of violating it while you've done it yourself.
(and the US is indeed a Geneva convention signatory)
Those all refer to the same claims, and those claims are ambiguous anyway. There's no consensus on whether or not terrorists quality as conventional soldiers, but considering it's not written in the text of the treaties, it comes down to interpretation, none of which has been agreed upon in the international community.
That's not to say torture is acceptable, but a few people saying they think it's a breach of the geneva conventions is not enough to mean anything concrete.
Soldiers are to be visually recognizable as soldiers, for one.
Name times that the US has violated the geneva convention.
Islamic extremism is a product of western imperialism. And it's not like these people are proven to be terrorists.Spoiler(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BksJgThCEAA94HR.jpg)[close]
Our boy Putin back in business. Wooogod bless
Holy shit, I'm actually lost for words. Yeah, a tongue in cheek joke highlighting the fact that we've come a full circle since the end of WW2 and the beginning of the cold war is totally propaganda. Jesus christ, use your brain.Nobody still remembers these posters. And even if somebody does, this would be very tasteless.
You don't think they looked through Nazi propaganda posters to find one to make a joke out of? That really didn't cross your mind?This is not Nazi propaganda but postwar German propaganda.
Alright, then what's the problem?Propaganda is a general problem. But I found it interesting that they used ideologically fixated propaganda from the 60s as a template.
Grow up.I'm already 1.85m!!!
The irony is that we've seen all this before. It's a return to an older era that we all thought was past us. Sure, it probably is propagandistic in nature, or at least to a certain extent - but the poster itself and its use of old art is based in humor, not persuasion.
Turin, just admit you're trying to look for angle to speak shit about the west.
Putin obviously had autism before it was cool.Autism definitely is what Czar Putin is made up of. Fuck you Donetsk supporters. Baggits
pls be b8Putin obviously had autism before it was cool.Autism definitely is what Czar Putin is made up of. Fuck you Donetsk supporters. Baggits
Putin obviously had autism before it was cool.Autism definitely is what Czar Putin is made up of. Fuck you Donetsk supporters. Baggits
I just love you, man.Putin obviously had autism before it was cool.Autism definitely is what Czar Putin is made up of. Fuck you Donetsk supporters. Baggits
Baggits?Putin obviously had autism before it was cool.Autism definitely is what Czar Putin is made up of. Fuck you Donetsk supporters. Baggits
In our days most of the time this is exactly the same thing.Baggits?Putin obviously had autism before it was cool.Autism definitely is what Czar Putin is made up of. Fuck you Donetsk supporters. Baggits
Are you trying to be politically correct and insult a group of people?
Triggered
Germany should be divided into 4 parts again because they're pigs Ukraine gets 1 piece USA gets 1 Russia gets 1 and 4chan gets 1
Germany should be divided into 4 parts again because they're pigs Ukraine gets 1 piece USA gets 1 Russia gets 1 and 4chan gets 1
I want to live in the 4chan or the Russian piece please.
I already live in the American sector.Germany should be divided into 4 parts again because they're pigs Ukraine gets 1 piece USA gets 1 Russia gets 1 and 4chan gets 1
I want to live in the 4chan or the Russian piece please.
no u get placed in american sector
Stop being a retard soon please Nipplestockings.
Stop being a retard soon please Nipplestockings.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F03%2F29%2Fdb580d9887812caad44aba2b4034fc4c.jpg&hash=f69452138bf543cf3b3ca22b723bd0425524d87c)Stop being a retard soon please Nipplestockings.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.dpchallenge.com%2Fimages_challenge%2F0-999%2F259%2F1200%2FCopyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_106943.jpg&hash=ef43328dad8c1be1a47dd213d71d3163e9922dc3)
guys, if i ever become as big of a retard as edward, please make sure i cease to live
guys, if i ever become as big of a retard as edward, please make sure i cease to live
guys, if i ever become as big of a retard as edward, please make sure i cease to liveLol everyone's taking my posting so seriously. RIP. I can care less about what I post on here, I just come here if bored.
guys, if i ever become as big of a retard as edward, please make sure i cease to liveLol everyone's taking my posting so seriously. RIP. I can care less about what I post on here, I just come here if bored.
Lol, Boredom can make you do things that you find funny. It's funny seeing how you guys react.guys, if i ever become as big of a retard as edward, please make sure i cease to liveLol everyone's taking my posting so seriously. RIP. I can care less about what I post on here, I just come here if bored.
boredom and autism are not the same thing
guys, if i ever become as big of a retard as edward, please make sure i cease to liveLol everyone's taking my posting so seriously. RIP. I can care less about what I post on here, I just come here if bored.
of(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F03%2F29%2F8bf298cdb27856c6c6556911d448a622.jpg&hash=a40b47f296727b89c60c62d4860d8799d793c2f6)
Stop doing that.
I'm gonna need to disagree with Nipple on this one
Keep coming here <3
Keep existing ♡
Lol, Boredom can make you do things that you find funny. It's funny seeing how you guys react.
Isn't being an idiot for the sake of getting an angry reaction trolling?Lol, Boredom can make you do things that you find funny. It's funny seeing how you guys react.
Since admins love me they will hand out spam to at any given chance.
For some reason they seem to enjoy your shit posts which bother more people then my super important threads like which condiment is most superior.
Instead Duuring has to close Turban thread because Glukautismy was getting too butthurt. So sad
Instead Duuring has to close Turban thread because Glukautismy was getting too butthurt. So sad
+1
Also nazi government of Ukraine is getting Humvees from America? I hope theyre rigged with explosives to screw over the people inside or else its a waste of money
guys, if i ever become as big of a retard as edward, please make sure i cease to liveLol everyone's taking my posting so seriously. RIP. I can care less about what I post on here, I just come here if bored.
Instead Duuring has to close Turban thread because Glukautismy was getting too butthurt. So sad
Also nazi government of Ukraine is getting Humvees from America? I hope theyre rigged with explosives to screw over the people inside or else its a waste of money
Instead Duuring has to close Turban thread because Glukautismy was getting too butthurt. So sad
+1
Also nazi government of Ukraine is getting Humvees from America? I hope theyre rigged with explosives to screw over the people inside or else its a waste of money
Fuck off troll.
KurrasierNixon please do a Trust Fall with a train, it would be best for all of us.....
KurrasierNixon please do a Trust Fall with a train, it would be best for all of us.....
duuring pooped his pants
Rules?
Anyone else find it fishy how MH 17 gets shot down over a war zone? its almost like the dutch/EU wanted bad publicity against Russia. Just speculation.
Anyone else find it fishy how MH 17 gets shot down over a war zone? its almost like the dutch/EU wanted bad publicity against Russia. Just speculation.
Sure, a commerical airline, the flightpath not at all being under the jurisdiction of the Dutch government or the EU, for that matter, was shto down over a warzone while actually already flying higher than usual... Very fishy indeed, please explain more how the EU and Dutch government are actually run by the Illuminati.
Anyone else find it fishy how MH 17 gets shot down over a war zone? its almost like the dutch/EU wanted bad publicity against Russia. Just speculation.
Sure, a commerical airline, the flightpath not at all being under the jurisdiction of the Dutch government or the EU, for that matter, was shto down over a warzone while actually already flying higher than usual... Very fishy indeed, please explain more how the EU and Dutch government are actually run by the Illuminati.
Im just saying I have no sympathy for a plane that flies over an active warzone
Anyone else find it fishy how MH 17 gets shot down over a war zone? its almost like the dutch/EU wanted bad publicity against Russia. Just speculation.
Sure, a commerical airline, the flightpath not at all being under the jurisdiction of the Dutch government or the EU, for that matter, was shto down over a warzone while actually already flying higher than usual... Very fishy indeed, please explain more how the EU and Dutch government are actually run by the Illuminati.
Im just saying I have no sympathy for a plane that flies over an active warzone
Why would you have sympathy for a plane?
http://www.leurenmoret.info/waves/dutch-apologize-for-mh-17.html
http://www.leurenmoret.info/waves/dutch-apologize-for-mh-17.html
Cees Hamelink never wrote that letter and it's unknown why anyone ever bothered to put his name under it. He's a professor of International Communications at the university of Amsterdam, for heaven's sake. For the non-dutchies under us who don't get the joke: UvA has a pretty bad reputation.
Both the Dutch government and the media have been INSANELY scared of pointing ANY fingers. Still they're saying 'well we don't know anything for sure', while the Russians were already saying the Ukrainians shot it down the day on the same fucking day that it was shot down. Yet somehow the Ruski's still have the nerve of saying we're biased by merely stating that we found proof supporting the Bug-theory. What are we supposed to say?
"We found evidence that the plane may have been shot down by a BUG-rocket, yet Russia would of course never do anything like that, so we'll just throw it away."
slavs are literal filth.But Ukrainians are the best around, no one's ever gotta bomb your town.
...while the Russians were already saying the Ukrainians shot it down the day on the same fucking day that it was shot down.
Yet somehow the Ruski's still have the nerve of saying we're biased by merely stating that we found proof supporting the Bug-theory. What are we supposed to say?
https://news.vice.com/article/russian-soldiers-have-given-up-pretending-they-are-not-fighting-in-ukraine?utm_source=vicenewsfb
o word
https://news.vice.com/article/russian-soldiers-have-given-up-pretending-they-are-not-fighting-in-ukraine?utm_source=vicenewsfb
o word
I thought is was pretty apparent to everyone that those soldiers were Russian. You'd have to be fucking stupid or the Kremlin to deny that those soldiers were Russian.
I havent read all of your previous posts but i can say that as polish guy im afraid of a possibility of russia's attack.
Maybe if Russian media and politicians actually didn't actively call up Russians to go to east Ukraine and fight, there wouldn't be so many 'volunteers'.
I havent read all of your previous posts but i can say that as polish guy im afraid of a possibility of russia's attack.
Rest assured, Putin does not have the capabilities to conquer Poland, for we cna be sure NATO would intervene (the American way).
No, your country won't be conquered... Destroyed, more likely.
Peter D'Hamecourt, a Dutch correspondent in Russia, mentions a few times in his book 'Russia at war - with itself and the world' how the Russian media reports about the conflict are pretty much made to invoke 'volunteerism' without, of course, specifically saying 'Go to Donetsk'. That job is for 'non-state' media-outlets, like internet sites. Ukrainians are called 'fascist', civilian casualties are shown 24/7, et cetera. A bit like this:
He does mention a politician calling up Russians to volunteer.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29078465
Will you ever be convinced of anything, Reje?
I havent read all of your previous posts but i can say that as polish guy im afraid of a possibility of russia's attack.
Rest assured, Putin does not have the capabilities to conquer Poland, for we cna be sure NATO would intervene (the American way).
No, your country won't be conquered... Destroyed, more likely.
Russia invade Poland?
What, is it time for a reenactment?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Warsaw_(1920)
I havent read all of your previous posts but i can say that as polish guy im afraid of a possibility of russia's attack.
Rest assured, Putin does not have the capabilities to conquer Poland, for we cna be sure NATO would intervene (the American way).
No, your country won't be conquered... Destroyed, more likely.
Will you ever be convinced of anything, Reje?
SpoilerI think its good he spends time considering these things as he gives balance to our autistic EULOLZ vs RUSIELAND arguments.[close]
Will you ever be convinced of anything, Reje?
What's the problem here? That's a civilian US army souvenir hat. Pretty sure they don't issue those in the military.
(except helping to illustrate what side your on)I wouldn't even go as far as to say this.
Gullible, impressionable, etc.
RT is respectable and tries so you have to appreciate their effort
RT is respectable and tries so you have to appreciate their effort
RT is the definition of horseshit state controlled news.
I remember the whole thing about German soldiers in Ukraine. A bunch of guys dressed in surplus flecktarn that happened to have a German flag on the sleeve. They were holding fucking axes and Russian propaganda sites blamed them for slaughtering civilians (I don't know if the whole thing about killing civilians was true, but saying that German soldiers are killing civilians in Ukraine is a load of horseshit.) . If you really read and watch RT you will see some really blatant bullshit. I still cannot believe how people watch RT without falling out of their chair in laughter or punching their computer screen.
What impresses me is that atrocities are believed in or disbelieved in solely on grounds of political predilection. Everyone believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those of his own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence.
Remember the discussion about the terror acts performed by Spanish Anarchists? Remember how you felt? That's why.
Here's an anecdote from Durruti to see how bad life is in Ancom society,SpoilerDurruti stopped his car at a checkpoint at a town in the Lérida province.
He portrayed himself as a militiaman leaving the front for the rearguard and requested gasoline for his vehicle.
By doing this, he wanted to see how the peasant’s behavior had changed in that town of some three thousand residents.
A militiaman told him that he should speak to the Revolutionary Committee in the old mayor’s office. They’d give him the “OK” that he needed to fill his car with gas.
Durruti crossed the town’s main square. It was around noon. The square was empty except for some women leaving the church with a basket of goods.
Durruti asked them how to get to the Committee and also if mass was being officiated in the church.
“No, no,” they responded. “There’s no priest. The priest is working in the field with the other men. Kill him? Why kill him? He isn’t dangerous.
He even talks about going to live with a town girl. Besides, he’s very happy with everything that’s happening.
“But the church is right there,” said Durruti, while pointing.
“Ah, yes, the church. Why destroy it? The statues were removed and burned in the square. God no longer exists. He’s been expelled from here.
And, since God doesn’t exist, the assembly decided to replace the word “adios” [with God] with “Salud” [cheers].
The Cooperative now occupies the church and, because everything is collectivized, it supplies the town.”
Durruti came across an elderly man when he entered what was once the mayor’s office.
It was the town’s former schoolteacher, who had been replaced by a young teacher from Lérida three months earlier.
The old man had been inactive during those months but, when the revolution broke out, he volunteered to look after the town’s administrative needs and assure the
continued operation of the Town Committee.
The other members of the Committee were working in the fields. They gathered at nightfall to discuss pressing matters that had come up during the day or tasks that they needed
to accomplish the next day. At the time, they had to focus on taking in the harvest.
Since the town’s young people had volunteered to go fight on the front, the remaining residents had to do the work.
“But don’t think,” the retired teacher said, “that the work weighs on anyone. We work for ourselves now, for everyone.”
Durruti asked him how they had selected the members of the Committee. Durruti’s straightforward and simple air inspired the teacher’s trust, who took him as one of the many curious militiamen
from the city who wanted to see what was happening in the towns.
“We held a town assembly,” he said, “and considered everyone’s abilities and also their conduct before the revolution.
That’s how we appointed the Committee.” “And what about the political parties?” Durruti said.
“Parties? There are some old Republicans like myself and some Socialists too; but no, the political parties haven’t played any role.
During our assembly, we considered a person’s ability and conduct and appointed those who seemed best to us. It was no more complicated than that.
The Committee represents the people and it’s to the people that it has to answer.”
Durruti asked about the parties again. “The parties?” the teacher replied, intrigued by his insistence. “Why do we need political parties? You work to eat and eat if you work.
Party politics don’t sow wheat, gather olives, or tan animal hides. No, our problems are collective and we have to solve them collectively.
Politics divides and our town wants to be united, in total community.” “By all appearances, everyone is happy here.
But what about the old landowners?” Durruti inquired. “They aren’t happy,” the teacher responded. “They don’t say so outright, because they’re afraid, but you can see it on their faces.
Some have joined the community, others have chosen what we now call ‘individualism.’ They’ve kept their land but have to cultivate it themselves, because the exploitation of man by man no longer exists here, and so they won’t find any employees.
“But what happens if they can’t cultivate their land themselves?”“That simply shows that they have too much land and the town takes possession of what they can’t tend to.
Leaving the land uncultivated would be an attack on all of us.”
Durruti said goodbye to the teacher and, when he returned to the checkpoint, the workers on guard asked him if he’d received the gasoline that he needed. He told them yes with a smile and threw them a “Salud!” from the car as he took off for Barcelona.[close]
QuoteHere's an anecdote from Durruti to see how bad life is in Ancom society,SpoilerDurruti stopped his car at a checkpoint at a town in the Lérida province.
He portrayed himself as a militiaman leaving the front for the rearguard and requested gasoline for his vehicle.
By doing this, he wanted to see how the peasant’s behavior had changed in that town of some three thousand residents.
A militiaman told him that he should speak to the Revolutionary Committee in the old mayor’s office. They’d give him the “OK” that he needed to fill his car with gas.
Durruti crossed the town’s main square. It was around noon. The square was empty except for some women leaving the church with a basket of goods.
Durruti asked them how to get to the Committee and also if mass was being officiated in the church.
“No, no,” they responded. “There’s no priest. The priest is working in the field with the other men. Kill him? Why kill him? He isn’t dangerous.
He even talks about going to live with a town girl. Besides, he’s very happy with everything that’s happening.
“But the church is right there,” said Durruti, while pointing.
“Ah, yes, the church. Why destroy it? The statues were removed and burned in the square. God no longer exists. He’s been expelled from here.
And, since God doesn’t exist, the assembly decided to replace the word “adios” [with God] with “Salud” [cheers].
The Cooperative now occupies the church and, because everything is collectivized, it supplies the town.”
Durruti came across an elderly man when he entered what was once the mayor’s office.
It was the town’s former schoolteacher, who had been replaced by a young teacher from Lérida three months earlier.
The old man had been inactive during those months but, when the revolution broke out, he volunteered to look after the town’s administrative needs and assure the
continued operation of the Town Committee.
The other members of the Committee were working in the fields. They gathered at nightfall to discuss pressing matters that had come up during the day or tasks that they needed
to accomplish the next day. At the time, they had to focus on taking in the harvest.
Since the town’s young people had volunteered to go fight on the front, the remaining residents had to do the work.
“But don’t think,” the retired teacher said, “that the work weighs on anyone. We work for ourselves now, for everyone.”
Durruti asked him how they had selected the members of the Committee. Durruti’s straightforward and simple air inspired the teacher’s trust, who took him as one of the many curious militiamen
from the city who wanted to see what was happening in the towns.
“We held a town assembly,” he said, “and considered everyone’s abilities and also their conduct before the revolution.
That’s how we appointed the Committee.” “And what about the political parties?” Durruti said.
“Parties? There are some old Republicans like myself and some Socialists too; but no, the political parties haven’t played any role.
During our assembly, we considered a person’s ability and conduct and appointed those who seemed best to us. It was no more complicated than that.
The Committee represents the people and it’s to the people that it has to answer.”
Durruti asked about the parties again. “The parties?” the teacher replied, intrigued by his insistence. “Why do we need political parties? You work to eat and eat if you work.
Party politics don’t sow wheat, gather olives, or tan animal hides. No, our problems are collective and we have to solve them collectively.
Politics divides and our town wants to be united, in total community.” “By all appearances, everyone is happy here.
But what about the old landowners?” Durruti inquired. “They aren’t happy,” the teacher responded. “They don’t say so outright, because they’re afraid, but you can see it on their faces.
Some have joined the community, others have chosen what we now call ‘individualism.’ They’ve kept their land but have to cultivate it themselves, because the exploitation of man by man no longer exists here, and so they won’t find any employees.
“But what happens if they can’t cultivate their land themselves?”“That simply shows that they have too much land and the town takes possession of what they can’t tend to.
Leaving the land uncultivated would be an attack on all of us.”
Durruti said goodbye to the teacher and, when he returned to the checkpoint, the workers on guard asked him if he’d received the gasoline that he needed. He told them yes with a smile and threw them a “Salud!” from the car as he took off for Barcelona.[close]
This doesn't really make any sense to me. Are you against anarcho-communism? I thought that's what you are? Or is this sarcastic? Please explain your point here.
Poroshenko recently forbid all films that paint a positive picture of Russia.Freedom's just better when you don't have anyone questioning whether they're free
Poroshenko recently forbid all films that paint a positive picture of Russia.It's a lie.
Poroshenko recently forbid all films that paint a positive picture of Russia.It's a lie.
No shit lol ;)Yes, if you give this as "Poroshenko recently forbid all films that paint a positive picture of Russia.":
It's a pity that they don't forbit Russian gas however.I'm actually wondering why Russia is still sending gas to Ukraine.
It's a pity that they don't forbit Russian gas however.I'm actually wondering why Russia is still sending gas to Ukraine.
There are more than enough people who would pay for the oil.It's a pity that they don't forbit Russian gas however.I'm actually wondering why Russia is still sending gas to Ukraine.
surely you realise that nothing matters in the world more than money
There are more than enough people who would pay for the oil.It's a pity that they don't forbit Russian gas however.I'm actually wondering why Russia is still sending gas to Ukraine.
surely you realise that nothing matters in the world more than money
I misspelled it by accident.There are more than enough people who would pay for the oil.It's a pity that they don't forbit Russian gas however.I'm actually wondering why Russia is still sending gas to Ukraine.
surely you realise that nothing matters in the world more than money
when did gas become oil?
I was trying to have a serious discussion with Duuring, if that is possible. So please...
Their propaganda speaks for itself,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGLoW_uSV-c
They also made him an adviser to the chief of the General Staff. (http://www.mil.gov.ua/news/2015/04/05/general-polkovnik-viktor-muzhenko-ta-providnik-duk-dijshli-zgodi-shhodo-priznachennya-d-yarosha-radnikom-nachalnika-genshtabu--8977/)
Meanwhile the SBU interrogated the head of the Communist Party of Ukraine among others as part of an investigation into Communist violations of national security, including allegations of financing the separatists. (http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/simonenka-dopituyut-schodo-zlochiniv-proti-nacbezpeki-ukrayini-sbu-419817.html) Symonenko has been interrogated for at least seven hours. (https://twitter.com/TarasBerezovets/status/585084598658400256)
Everytime a ukrainian soldier dies we get a little closer to a perfect world
Is it still as bad as it was?
Now they are on the front lines roleplaying the SS.
Seriously scary scary scary. In addition to that, they are also very anti-queer as well. But lets all willfully forget that because they are "pro-eu".
There actually are Anarchists fighting in the Right Sectors UVC. Well, two, at least.
They are roleplaying the SS? How exactly? Fighting on the frontlines for the defense of your country, on the territory of your country, is how exactly comparable to the SS? Foreign journalists interviewed Right Sector fighters and could discover no hatred against minorities like Jews. Yarosh even proudly wrote on his Facebook how a combined team of Israeli's and Ukrainian doctors patched him up after he got wounded. If he's a nazi, he's doing a terrible job at it.
Right Sector is not pro-EU. They're literally against any foreign influence over Ukraine, and oppose both EU-membership and NATO-membership. Sure, they prefer the west to the East, but that's just a matter of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. Anyway, you should note the difference between Pravy Sektor as a political party and as a military unit.
If he's a nazi, he's doing a terrible job at it.
Whether you believe their ideology has anything in common with National Socialism depends on what qualifies as an overlap with National Socialism. The removal of Xenophobia and racial prejudice may be the simplest distinction but then Right Sector's attempt at cleaning RS' image may be more politically pragmatic that ideological:I don't see how they have cleaned anything. There is nothing in the 25 points manifesto with which Yarosh and his bastards would disagree, and yet this manifesto is 100% nazi. Actually, if that wasn't the original Nazi program, some people there would even say that this isn't a Nazi program. Evident lack of culture and political understanding.
Foreign journalists interviewed Right Sector fighters and could discover no hatred against minorities like Jews. Yarosh even proudly wrote on his Facebook how a combined team of Israeli's and Ukrainian doctors patched him up after he got wounded. If he's a nazi, he's doing a terrible job at it.
Very True Duuring, yarosh is known to have Jewish roots on his mothers side too.. so yea even if he is a Nazi he is a terrible fake.
Right Sector is not pro-EU. They're literally against any foreign influence over Ukraine, and oppose both EU-membership and NATO-membership. Sure, they prefer the west to the East, but that's just a matter of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. Anyway, you should note the difference between Pravy Sektor as a political party and as a military unit.
I don't see how they have cleaned anything. There is nothing in the 25 points manifesto with which Yarosh and his bastards would disagree, and yet this manifesto is 100% nazi. Actually, if that wasn't the original Nazi program, some people there would even say that this isn't a Nazi program. Evident lack of culture and political understanding.
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/25points.htm
Everytime a ukrainian soldier dies we get a little closer to a perfect world
I hope you never get banned.
While Antisemitism is certainly closely linked with former Nazi Germany's ideology; it wasn't just Jews that fell victim to Germany's insane eugenics school of thought. Ultimately any ideology that considers one race superior over another would be characteristically mirrored by Nazism.Indeed, and even Jews have their own fascistic far right which strongly believes in their superiority over other populations, such as the Jewish Defense League. Moreover, an important part of the traditional far right has abandoned its traditional anti-jew stance since they view Israel as a rampart against Arabs and Muslims.
Fucking right-wingers. Can't they understand that there's no future for the right wing?
The segmentation with "right" and "left" is fucking retarded.
The segmentation with "right" and "left" is fucking retarded.
Not really. It's confusing when comparing the American and European political spectrums but beyond that it works fairly well as a concept.
The segmentation with "right" and "left" is fucking retarded.
Not really. It's confusing when comparing the American and European political spectrums but beyond that it works fairly well as a concept.
The segmentation with "right" and "left" is fucking retarded.
Not really. It's confusing when comparing the American and European political spectrums but beyond that it works fairly well as a concept.
Was Hitler left or right? He was a totalitarian dictator but a Socialist.
Was Stalin left or right? He was a totalitarian dictator but called himself Communist.
Are feminists left or right? They want equality but supress freedom of speech.
Is Obama left or right? He says he wants to make America more equal but bombs people in other countries and supports neoliberalism which some consider as "right".
Is Merkel left or right? She is in the conservative party and supports lobbyists but also the multiculturalism.
The German Party AfD which is considered as far right critizise the loans for Greece but the left party DIE LINKE does exactly the same for the same reasons.
I personally share many "left" and "right" ideas and leftists are calling me right and right-wings are calling me left.
The media and politicians are calling things left and right to hold the people down in their political trench warfare. This prevents any political dialogue or comprehension.
I mean ... the word "Putinversteher" which describes a person who can understand Putins behaviour is used in Germany to defame people. If you understand the way other human beings work ... you are evil.SpoilerA Russian company used this as their marketing strategy: http://putinversteher.ru/[close]
I mean ... the word "Putinversteher" which describes a person who can understand Putins behaviour is used in Germany to defame people. If you understand the way other human beings work ... you are evil.
When you describe American presidents as conservative I think you mean corrupt.Go away.
Turin don't you have some SS Rally to go to or something?No, it's only every saturday.
Turin, how come ur country got rekt twice?The kikes.
Augy, as an anarchist why do you insist that certain ways of living cannot exist or work? In an anarchist society, why should everyone be forced to conform to to status quo of socialist-anarchism? If a community wants to set up their own capitalistic society, should they be allowed? What if a community wants to set up a monarchy, with subjects voluntarily entering and living that way?
You're so scornful of any other way of living that's not leftist or socialist, yet your entire ideology is based around personal freedom. I'm actually really interested in anarchism, but the whole thing about only socialist-anarchists being the true anarchists seems ridiculous and hypocritical to me.
Augy, as an anarchist why do you insist that certain ways of living cannot exist or work? In an anarchist society, why should everyone be forced to conform to to status quo of socialist-anarchism? If a community wants to set up their own capitalistic society, should they be allowed? What if a community wants to set up a monarchy, with subjects voluntarily entering and living that way?
You're so scornful of any other way of living that's not leftist or socialist, yet your entire ideology is based around personal freedom. I'm actually really interested in anarchism, but the whole thing about only socialist-anarchists being the true anarchists seems ridiculous and hypocritical to me.
The left is inherently cool, but conservatism is more or less by definition uncool, being a swathe of ideologies which are designed to support the already powerful. The left, on the other hand, is full of artists, musicians, queers, punks, hippies, and people figuring out how to live their lives as autonomously as possible from white supremacist, capitalist patriarchy. Which is just cool.
Trace coolness back to 19th century bohemia, libertinism, radicalism, romanticism, when artists who were often poor sympathised with the poor and the workers ... the aesthetic of nonchalance, fuck the system, critical thinking, always on the left, since it is against status quo of protecting property.
As un-nuanced as this explanation is, "being cool" in the West has usually been associated with overthrowing established hierarchies. Those hierarchies (rightly and wrongly) have usually taken the names of capitalism or conservatism.
Plus lefties make better music, I'll give 'em that. Coolness and the status quo tend to be in conflict. Capitalism and other forms of domination appeal to people who are introverted and have little to no humility.
You didn't actually answer my question.
What the hell are you talking about? Holy shit. You still never actually addressed any of my points or inquiries, btw.
This has gone rather off topic but is rather interesting. Why not make a separate thread for it?
The left is inherently cool, but conservatism is more or less by definition uncool, being a swathe of ideologies which are designed to support the already powerful. The left, on the other hand, is full of artists, musicians, queers, punks, hippies, and people figuring out how to live their lives as autonomously as possible from white supremacist, capitalist patriarchy. Which is just cool.
Trace coolness back to 19th century bohemia, libertinism, radicalism, romanticism, when artists who were often poor sympathised with the poor and the workers ... the aesthetic of nonchalance, fuck the system, critical thinking, always on the left, since it is against status quo of protecting property.
As un-nuanced as this explanation is, "being cool" in the West has usually been associated with overthrowing established hierarchies. Those hierarchies (rightly and wrongly) have usually taken the names of capitalism or conservatism.
Plus lefties make better music, I'll give 'em that. Coolness and the status quo tend to be in conflict. Capitalism and other forms of domination appeal to people who are introverted and have little to no humility.
This has gone rather off topic but is rather interesting. Why not make a separate thread for it?
I hope ukraine gets wiped off the map along with poland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exnaY0l4XsMTrevor Moore is bae
Kurwa!
Today Parliament voted for a law about recognizing organizations that fought for the independence of Ukraine in the twentieth century.
All the people, who were fighting for independence in the military, paramilitary or political organizations, or their struggle were individually, recognized as fighters for independence of Ukraine.
The law provides recognition of organizations such as the Union for the Liberation of Ukraine, Ukrainian Sich Riflemen, UNR, Hetmanate, ZUNR, Ukrainian guerrilla and rebel groups in 1917-1930, Carpathian Sich, UPA, OUN, Sojm of the Carpathian Ukraine, Ukrainian Helsinki Group and so on.
Even the Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine?That would be as if Germany recognized the Werwolf as an organization that fought for its independance. ;D
Even the Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine?There is some Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine in the list, probably it is them.
Today Parliament voted for a law about recognizing organizations that fought for the independence of Ukraine in the twentieth century.
All the people, who were fighting for independence in the military, paramilitary or political organizations, or their struggle were individually, recognized as fighters for independence of Ukraine.
The law provides recognition of organizations such as the Union for the Liberation of Ukraine, Ukrainian Sich Riflemen, UNR, Hetmanate, ZUNR, Ukrainian guerrilla and rebel groups in 1917-1930, Carpathian Sich, UPA, OUN, Sojm of the Carpathian Ukraine, Ukrainian Helsinki Group and so on.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/35/00/bd/3500bd941840ab785b83ea6c69ed5c35.jpg)
That kid with the helmet and AT grenade looks smug as fuck. Lil' niggas ready to bust some filthy Ukie ass fo shoChildren's Crusade: Boyz in the Hood edition
Oh man. Russia, will you ever stop amazing me with your Slav-ness?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/04/10/russia-just-made-a-ton-of-internet-memes-illegal/
How do they plan on enforcing these laws lolIf you are arrested for whatever reason and published a meme against Putin, this law will give them a pretext to accuse you.
Come on guys. You were all pissed when 'Poroshenko banned Russian movies'. Where's your anger now?
Come on guys. You were all pissed when 'Poroshenko banned Russian movies'. Where's your anger now?
Come on guys. You were all pissed when 'Poroshenko banned Russian movies'. Where's your anger now?
Come on guys. You were all pissed when 'Poroshenko banned Russian movies'. Where's your anger now?This is equally as disgusting as anything Poroshenko outlawed
Come on guys. You were all pissed when 'Poroshenko banned Russian movies'. Where's your anger now?
Nope
I could have also given you that warning for off-topic, if that makes you feel better.
duuring poo'ed his socialist panties again
Wait... you don't wear panties Sven?
Read through that source. No bias.Thanks. It's now Klarinogampros-proved.
Russia Today? Nope. Using one extremely biased newssource to say another one is biased is stoopit.
its ok turin they will have to learn german somedayNormally I'd post nazi propaganda now, but I'm already warned. :-\
Heute Deutschland, morgen die Welt!
Russia Today? Nope. Using one extremely biased newssource to say another one is biased is stoopit.
Nice large flat spaces on the armour. :D
Nice large flat spaces on the armour. :DFurtivity, like the French Leclerc. Or this PL-01:
And yet the Germans produce better SubmarinesBut we give them to Israel for free.
But there simply is no need for it right now. Why do you need to pump out 2000 submarines/tanks/airplanes/whatever every second?
That being said, ofc. a country like Germany, France or the UK would not be able to stand in a 1v1 with Russia... (Because Russia can pump almost double as many soldiers into the the fight.)
But they do not have to, if Russia feels like attacking one of them, half of the World is suddenly fighting Russia, and I do not think that Russia likes that very much.
Also, just look at the population comparison. Russia has 140 million citizens, while the EU already has 500 million...
The Russian navy is a joke. Submarines are really the only thing they have modernized (meaning they got most of them in the 90s).
"Germany, France or the UK would not be able to stand in a 1v1 with Russia"
Irrelevant. Those countries are united and share responsibilities over fields and geographical region. They each have their roles and together form something that could be called a "western" bloc.
"Germany, France or the UK would not be able to stand in a 1v1 with Russia"
Irrelevant. Those countries are united and share responsibilities over fields and geographical region. They each have their roles and together form something that could be called a "western" bloc.
Wat? Did you even read what I wrote?
I wrote that they do not have to, because as soon as someone attacks one of them, it is like attacking all of them...
Aircraft carriers are useless in a modern war with modern armies. They are a way to large target and can be easily hit by any properly guided missile.
However, they prove to be extremely useful against countries who can not use this kind of technology.
"Germany, France or the UK would not be able to stand in a 1v1 with Russia"
Irrelevant. Those countries are united and share responsibilities over fields and geographical region. They each have their roles and together form something that could be called a "western" bloc.
Wat? Did you even read what I wrote?
I wrote that they do not have to, because as soon as someone attacks one of them, it is like attacking all of them...
Aircraft carriers are useless in a modern war with modern armies. They are a way to large target and can be easily hit by any properly guided missile.
However, they prove to be extremely useful against countries who can not use this kind of technology.
That's why in nation-to-nation warfare, carriers never sail alone. They would usually be guarded by two or three frigates, with AA and anti-missile capabilities.
Russian military products are not excellent lol. Holy shit how much propaganda have you been eating? Aside from their small arms industry their military hardware is largely trash. They have some decently tough equipment but most of it is at least a generation behind, even at the point of first being designed. Their aircraft are hardy but lack critical equipment on board and are prone to failure and malfunction. Russia is not prepared for war against another western power. They may be improving, but they're still far behind most other powers in almost every way.
Aircraft carriers are useless in a modern war with modern armies. They are a way to large target and can be easily hit by any properly guided missile.
However, they prove to be extremely useful against countries who can not use this kind of technology.
I had to study the Russian black sea fleet for a project, and one of the things I noted was that 'We are going to modernize'-messages really made up more then half the news on the Black Sea Fleet. No news about them actually modernizing though.
Russian military products are not excellent lol. Holy shit how much propaganda have you been eating? Aside from their small arms industry their military hardware is largely trash. They have some decently tough equipment but most of it is at least a generation behind, even at the point of first being designed. Their aircraft are hardy but lack critical equipment on board and are prone to failure and malfunction. Russia is not prepared for war against another western power. They may be improving, but they're still far behind most other powers in almost every way.
I would be inclined to believe that our propaganda or over-confidence has been just as effective in downplaying Russian capabilities. For the most part we had barely even paid attention to Russian air-force capabilities until recently. The SU-35 alone is more capable than the F35 which is not surprising given the F35's role to enter airspace and mop up after the F22 has sanitized the airspace.
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-05072010-1.html
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/158684/russia-touts-su_35s-before-zhuhai-presentation.html
While the F22 may or may not outperform the SU-35, at 40 - 60 million dollars a pop vs the F22's 150 million dollar cost I would assume its a good performance vs cost production tradeoff. At the moment we know little about the PAK aircraft the Russians are producing but in terms of aerodynamics the Russians have made some excellent quality products that are suited to the varied conditions of Russia.
But effectively your capabilities are nothing unless they are complimented by a sound strategy which aims to cover your own weaknesses while exploiting that of your enemy's so depending on how you use those products/aircraft vs what their design and function entails will determine whether or not their excellent for the role that theiy're designed role.
In terms of repairs the F22 and F35 are high maintenance aircraft that constantly require repairs:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/09/AR2009070903020.html
Additionally the ability to learn from past mistakes and the privileged of actually being able to make mistakes to learn from are equally important. Necessity is the mother of invention.
Mainly the lack of UAVs for recon operations, the inability of Russian ECMs to jam incoming SAMs (Su25?), a lack of CAS for armored groups and a lack of combat control systems. It was after the Georgian war that Russia announced it would modernize its military after I assume it realized that there were serious weaknesses in its military's operational capabilities.
http://sputniknews.com/analysis/20080909/116657490.html
Whether or not they applied the lessons in their new designs I don't know but Russia is certainly attempting to modernize on all fronts be it its submarines which can move undetected into US waters or its tanks or its planes.
As far as AT is concerned even a 90's Kornet can disable an M1 or Merkava tank especially if their not complimented with CAS or infantry support:
http://www.janes.com/article/39550/iraqi-abrams-losses-revealed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M133_Kornet
Basically what I am saying is that whether or not modern Russian equipment is excellent; it certainly isn't shit but actual combat performance is the real test which is unlikely to happen anytime soon for the more modern systems.
Hi,
For my final project i am researching the Ukraine conflict, I have a few questions, was hoping your input would contribute to my research
Who is a world leader or local leader that could bring positive change to the conflict?
Hey :)
meanwhile, I've been mobilized 3 weeks ago
now in army training center, training to become an operator of ПЗРК 'ІГЛА' (MPADS SA-18 Grouse) :P
at least it should be like this, but maybe just a regular inf
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg02.deviantart.net%2Feaab%2Fi%2F2015%2F141%2Fa%2Fa%2Fdefying_euromaidan_by_party9999999-d8u6ckk.png&hash=13ccfa9a96b415c34daf1bc610455ee735a0d32f)Aren't you special?
Aren't you special?Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg02.deviantart.net%2Feaab%2Fi%2F2015%2F141%2Fa%2Fa%2Fdefying_euromaidan_by_party9999999-d8u6ckk.png&hash=13ccfa9a96b415c34daf1bc610455ee735a0d32f)[close]
Ok great leaderAren't you special?Spoiler(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg02.deviantart.net%2Feaab%2Fi%2F2015%2F141%2Fa%2Fa%2Fdefying_euromaidan_by_party9999999-d8u6ckk.png&hash=13ccfa9a96b415c34daf1bc610455ee735a0d32f)[close]
Learn to use spoilers when replying to image posts.
Noob
Ok great leader
Dan ur badBluemoon pls I rek u
yes plzDan ur badBluemoon pls I rek u
Duuring,
from the training (not me on the image) - http://1drv.ms/1KrUa3k
godbless them
What, we can't say God?
God Bless these people, they Clank for freedom.
So yeah ehmFor people who can't speak russian / ukrainian . Russia has sent a "Column" of military vehicles in the direction of the Ukranian border.Spoilerhttp://censor.net.ua/photo_news/337410/rossiya_napravila_v_storonu_ukrainskoyi_granitsy_bolshuyu_kolonnu_voennoyi_tehniki_fotoreportaj[close]
Oh PutinSpoiler(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c0/e9/79/c0e979fd4fad943f7b1acd7b584f2789.jpg)[close]
Pls I'm Buddhist.Are you?!
I see. Well, you have my respect. Stay safe and enjoy it as much as you can :PThanks, but to be honest, I am not a volunteer, and here because army called me and I do not try to avoid it, like all of my friends and neighbors, and like they suggest me to do.
If this was a genuine revolt, then yes. But based off my information it's basically a bunch of thugs with guns getting paid by the Kremlin to give Russia more clay.The people in Luhansk can't wait to get liberated by the Ukrainians.
Like the EU was behind this.
Like the EU was behind this.
Yeah, what proof do you have that the EU lead the coup? Sure they gave it moral support, but I see no guiding hands.
The US has overthrown loads of foreign governments in the last 50 years, often with underhand means.That's a lie!
There's no doubt it's a proxy war. The United States and the European Union backing the protestors (mainly Pravy sektor), and the Russians pressuring the Ukrainian government.
It's a mess and most people make the mistake of supporting a side, while both sides are fundamentally authoritarian.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/02/08/ukra-f08.html
There's no doubt it's a proxy war. The United States and the European Union backing the protestors (mainly Pravy sektor), and the Russians pressuring the Ukrainian government.
It's a mess and most people make the mistake of supporting a side, while both sides are fundamentally authoritarian.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/02/08/ukra-f08.html
You are still saying the current Ukrainian government is fascist?
are you just copy-pasting shit now?
are you just copy-pasting shit now?Yes, its copypasted. Doesnt make it illegitimate in the slightest.
Ukrainian army and the Nazi death squads bombed Donetsk yesterday while the city was celebrating the international day of children and commemorating the kids Kyiv, NATO, IMF and EU have murdered during the civil war they have been waging against eastern Ukraine, as a result of the the US-orchestrated fascist coup of February 2014.
While children were playing in the center of the city and in the parks near by, bombs started to fall on the city again. These children spent months of their lives in terror, hunger and cold in basements trying to stay alive from the bombs of Kyiv.
Kyiv knew they would be celebrating and shelled on purpose, because Kyiv's policy is terror.
Bombs fell 2 km away from the place where thousands of children were playing. In the neighborhood hit by the bombs of Kyiv children were playing in a park when the shelling started. The park was overcrowded.
The terror inflicted on these children on their day was even more shocking as they had no where to hide.
Photos of the bombings here
https://donbass.media/2421-rezultaty-obstrela-gorlovki-so-storony-vsu-01-06-2015-chast-1/
Video of children playing in the center of the city.
https://www.facebook.com/100007424712072/videos/1608563549401120/?hc_location=ufi
Images from one of their plays.
https://www.facebook.com/1566752600205838/videos/vb.1566752600205838/1632129430334821/?type=2&theater
I think it would be better if the Ukrainian army was Socialist while committing war crimes.
duuring i will present you with an interesting piece of historical evidence as to why people do this, so you can sleep well:
'The use of language was also an integral part of the Stalinist system. Enemies were defined as kulaks and Trotskyites even if the former were not, by any stretch of the imagination, rich peasants or if they had any connection with Trotsky. This twisting of language didn't matter, because all that was important was to identify these people as [enemies].' Oleg V. Naumov, The Road to Terror, 1999.)
Essentially retards like augy, maxlam, and all the others who are shouting fascist and nazi at people who aren't such are falling for one of the oldest compliance techniques ever. All i can really say to those people are that they are fucking idiots and i hope they don't breed.
Its even more funny when you consider that Augy, being the fat anarchist he is, always complains about the higher ups control of society, yet he is falling into their trap without even realising it.
Glory to the Azov batallion! May the wolfsangel wave over Donetsk and Luhansk!duuring i will present you with an interesting piece of historical evidence as to why people do this, so you can sleep well:
'The use of language was also an integral part of the Stalinist system. Enemies were defined as kulaks and Trotskyites even if the former were not, by any stretch of the imagination, rich peasants or if they had any connection with Trotsky. This twisting of language didn't matter, because all that was important was to identify these people as [enemies].' Oleg V. Naumov, The Road to Terror, 1999.)
Essentially retards like augy, maxlam, and all the others who are shouting fascist and nazi at people who aren't such are falling for one of the oldest compliance techniques ever. All i can really say to those people are that they are fucking idiots and i hope they don't breed.
Its even more funny when you consider that Augy, being the fat anarchist he is, always complains about the higher ups control of society, yet he is falling into their trap without even realising it.
Replace "fascist" with "autist" and you have Sven. Dude, you fucking love autistic people by the looks of it... ill make it my life goal to breed some and name them after you guys!
I find it hilarious that people try to ignore the Azov batallion, i'll speak to you guys next year when all those foreign fighters return to Europe. Its not going to be a picknick.
duuring i will present you with an interesting piece of historical evidence as to why people do this, so you can sleep well:
'The use of language was also an integral part of the Stalinist system. Enemies were defined as kulaks and Trotskyites even if the former were not, by any stretch of the imagination, rich peasants or if they had any connection with Trotsky. This twisting of language didn't matter, because all that was important was to identify these people as [enemies].' Oleg V. Naumov, The Road to Terror, 1999.)
Essentially retards like augy, maxlam, and all the others who are shouting fascist and nazi at people who aren't such are falling for one of the oldest compliance techniques ever. All i can really say to those people are that they are fucking idiots and i hope they don't breed.
Its even more funny when you consider that Augy, being the fat anarchist he is, always complains about the higher ups control of society, yet he is falling into their trap without even realising it.
Replace "fascist" with "autist" and you have Sven. Dude, you fucking love autistic people by the looks of it... ill make it my life goal to breed some and name them after you guys!
I find it hilarious that people try to ignore the Azov batallion, i'll speak to you guys next year when all those foreign fighters return to Europe. Its not going to be a picknick.
And what about the foreign commies fighting for the Ruskis?Who?
Quote from: DuuringAnd what about the foreign commies fighting for the Ruskis?Who?
Quote from: DuuringAnd what about the foreign commies fighting for the Ruskis?Who?
French and Spaniards are there fighting for the Donbass, they made a full report on it on Vice.
Even an American guy!Quote from: DuuringAnd what about the foreign commies fighting for the Ruskis?Who?
French and Spaniards are there fighting for the Donbass, they made a full report on it on Vice.
Brazilians as well.
French and Spaniards are there fighting for the Donbass, they made a full report on it on Vice.The French guys are hardly "commies", quite the contrary. The Spaniards might be though.
That's correct. "Team Vikernes"Quote from: SvenFrench and Spaniards are there fighting for the Donbass, they made a full report on it on Vice.The French guys are hardly "commies", quite the contrary. The Spaniards might be though.
https://youtu.be/rGVCrvvLuOc
315 pages on autism from all sides of the spectrum316*
Very good video by Simon::o//
https://youtu.be/2zssIFN2mso
Asians ain't so crafty now
Seeing Putin deny Russian troops being the Ukraine reminds me of that woman from the Homeland Security or whatever debrief a group of US journalists and say, "The U.S. has never illegally invaded or meddled in another country" or something to that extent
Lol nobody cared about the name before the conflict started. I remember people calling it "The Ukraine" pretty much all the way up til the protests started gaining media attention in 2013.
It only officially lost the "the" in the mid-90s or so, and Ukraine was too irrelevant for anyone to care up until last year. Whatever man.
Very good video by Simon:
https://youtu.be/2zssIFN2mso
Very good video by Simon:
https://youtu.be/2zssIFN2mso
Yet no one will act on this violation of Ukraines sovereignty.
Shows how the world cops aka USA is just a bunch of cowards fighting for their capitalistic oil.
What? Have you even watched the video?
But let me refine my statement for you the entire western world have been cowarding in front of Putin & his Russia for years we let him invade Georgia & now we are letting him invade Ukraine too.
I say it's time to stop acting as cowards & put some pressure on Putin. Before it's to late.
Putin is only defending itself. He had nothing to win from this war. The Maidan coup was conceived as an aggression against Russia, both economically (EU Association Agreement) and militarily (open plan to integrate Ukraine into NATO), and moreover it also started as a cultural aggression against Russian-speaking Ukrainians and Eastern regions.
"both are following their foreign policy" : Meaningless and stupid formula. All countries follow their foreign policies. I love how you uneducated brat call me "full blown retard" just to state the obvious.
What? Have you even watched the video?
But let me refine my statement for you the entire western world have been cowarding in front of Putin & his Russia for years we let him invade Georgia & now we are letting him invade Ukraine too.
I say it's time to stop acting as cowards & put some pressure on Putin. Before it's to late.
Yes i have watched the video.
And no, we haven't been cowarding infront of Putin, we have nothing to win from confronting him. If Ukraine can't even muster the will to fight for themselves then they can fuck off because realistically nobody cares about whether or not crimea and novorossiya belong to ukraine or russia.
And he isn't invading Ukraine, he is simply keeping the war going there for the fact that it drains resources from Ukraine and Eu, whilst also losing face of the western nations, as seen by the fact that Russian soldiers are only used for defensive actions. He doesn't actually care about Novorossiya either, if he did he this war would have been over last summer.
Nobody called the USSR a coward for chilling around while the Ameribuns were invading Vietnam or Korea, this is how the world works. If you have nothing to win, why would you fight for it?
What? Have you even watched the video?
But let me refine my statement for you the entire western world have been cowarding in front of Putin & his Russia for years we let him invade Georgia & now we are letting him invade Ukraine too.
I say it's time to stop acting as cowards & put some pressure on Putin. Before it's to late.
When Vladimir Putin became president of the Russian Federation in 2000, this had a radical impact on the Russo-Georgian relations. The Cold War between Russia and Georgia began in December 2000, when Georgia became the first and only member of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) on which the Russian visa regime was imposed. The Russian government began a massive distribution of passports to the residents of Abkhazia and South Ossetia in 2002 without Georgia's permission; by implementing "passportisation" policy Russia later would effectively lay claim to these territories.[53]
In 2008, most residents of South Ossetia were Russian citizens with Russian passports. According to Reuters, Russia supplied two-thirds of South Ossetia's annual budget before the war.[54] Russian officials had de facto control of South Ossetia's institutions, including security institutions and forces; South Ossetia's de facto government was largely staffed with Russians and South Ossetians with Russian passports, who had occupied equivalent government positions in Russia.[55]
To be fair, Georgia invaded South Ossetia first and in the process of their military operation killed around 10 Russian peacekeepers.Lol this is so right. I don't know how people can seriously talk about a Russian "invasion". Now the Georgian mad leader is working for the Chocolate King in Ukraine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_WarQuoteWhen Vladimir Putin became president of the Russian Federation in 2000, this had a radical impact on the Russo-Georgian relations. The Cold War between Russia and Georgia began in December 2000, when Georgia became the first and only member of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) on which the Russian visa regime was imposed. The Russian government began a massive distribution of passports to the residents of Abkhazia and South Ossetia in 2002 without Georgia's permission; by implementing "passportisation" policy Russia later would effectively lay claim to these territories.[53]
In 2008, most residents of South Ossetia were Russian citizens with Russian passports. According to Reuters, Russia supplied two-thirds of South Ossetia's annual budget before the war.[54] Russian officials had de facto control of South Ossetia's institutions, including security institutions and forces; South Ossetia's de facto government was largely staffed with Russians and South Ossetians with Russian passports, who had occupied equivalent government positions in Russia.[55]
Russians having control over all seperatist institutions? Jeez, it's as if I recogize a pattern.
Max is just an assblasted ouiaboo.
What? Have you even watched the video?
But let me refine my statement for you the entire western world have been cowarding in front of Putin & his Russia for years we let him invade Georgia & now we are letting him invade Ukraine too.
I say it's time to stop acting as cowards & put some pressure on Putin. Before it's to late.
Yes i have watched the video.
And no, we haven't been cowarding infront of Putin, we have nothing to win from confronting him. If Ukraine can't even muster the will to fight for themselves then they can fuck off because realistically nobody cares about whether or not crimea and novorossiya belong to ukraine or russia.
And he isn't invading Ukraine, he is simply keeping the war going there for the fact that it drains resources from Ukraine and Eu, whilst also losing face of the western nations, as seen by the fact that Russian soldiers are only used for defensive actions. He doesn't actually care about Novorossiya either, if he did he this war would have been over last summer.
Nobody called the USSR a coward for chilling around while the Ameribuns were invading Vietnam or Korea, this is how the world works. If you have nothing to win, why would you fight for it?
They would win another ally in the east by helping Ukraine.
I'm not saying the west should go in with troops I bet sending them weapons which the American congress already approved could change the tide of the war.
Russians have been part of aggressive actions so your statement is wrong on that perspective and I could give zero fucks about the shitty USSR.
I don't know why you keep bringing up failed communist states when I try to have an argument with you.. I am not a communist! I don't believe in Stalinism nor Leninism.
I'm a moderate Democratic Socialist.
They can support themselves economically and are closely tied to commerce in western Europe. Allowing Slavs into the EU is a terrible idea. Filthy animals.
What? Have you even watched the video?
But let me refine my statement for you the entire western world have been cowarding in front of Putin & his Russia for years we let him invade Georgia & now we are letting him invade Ukraine too.
I say it's time to stop acting as cowards & put some pressure on Putin. Before it's to late.
Yes i have watched the video.
And no, we haven't been cowarding infront of Putin, we have nothing to win from confronting him. If Ukraine can't even muster the will to fight for themselves then they can fuck off because realistically nobody cares about whether or not crimea and novorossiya belong to ukraine or russia.
And he isn't invading Ukraine, he is simply keeping the war going there for the fact that it drains resources from Ukraine and Eu, whilst also losing face of the western nations, as seen by the fact that Russian soldiers are only used for defensive actions. He doesn't actually care about Novorossiya either, if he did he this war would have been over last summer.
Nobody called the USSR a coward for chilling around while the Ameribuns were invading Vietnam or Korea, this is how the world works. If you have nothing to win, why would you fight for it?
They would win another ally in the east by helping Ukraine.
I'm not saying the west should go in with troops I bet sending them weapons which the American congress already approved could change the tide of the war.
Russians have been part of aggressive actions so your statement is wrong on that perspective and I could give zero fucks about the shitty USSR.
I don't know why you keep bringing up failed communist states when I try to have an argument with you.. I am not a communist! I don't believe in Stalinism nor Leninism.
I'm a moderate Democratic Socialist.
Holy shit man, do you need some kind of help?
I used the USSR/comintern as an example because they are the only other superpower to have existed other than the USA, and two of the best examples of proxy wars (like the one in ukraine) are Korea and Vietnam. I don't care about you so much that i give myself a notification to bring up the USSR everytime i see ur name...
Also, Ukraine is not a valuable ally to the EU or NATO. They are a corrupt 2nd world country that consists of corn fields and can't even defend themselves against gangs of thugs that have AK47s. They would be as useful to NATO as a wet carrot would.
They can support themselves economically and are closely tied to commerce in western Europe. Allowing Slavs into the EU is a terrible idea. Filthy animals.
Yet Poland is in the EU.SpoilerWhat? Have you even watched the video?
But let me refine my statement for you the entire western world have been cowarding in front of Putin & his Russia for years we let him invade Georgia & now we are letting him invade Ukraine too.
I say it's time to stop acting as cowards & put some pressure on Putin. Before it's to late.
Yes i have watched the video.
And no, we haven't been cowarding infront of Putin, we have nothing to win from confronting him. If Ukraine can't even muster the will to fight for themselves then they can fuck off because realistically nobody cares about whether or not crimea and novorossiya belong to ukraine or russia.
And he isn't invading Ukraine, he is simply keeping the war going there for the fact that it drains resources from Ukraine and Eu, whilst also losing face of the western nations, as seen by the fact that Russian soldiers are only used for defensive actions. He doesn't actually care about Novorossiya either, if he did he this war would have been over last summer.
Nobody called the USSR a coward for chilling around while the Ameribuns were invading Vietnam or Korea, this is how the world works. If you have nothing to win, why would you fight for it?
They would win another ally in the east by helping Ukraine.
I'm not saying the west should go in with troops I bet sending them weapons which the American congress already approved could change the tide of the war.
Russians have been part of aggressive actions so your statement is wrong on that perspective and I could give zero fucks about the shitty USSR.
I don't know why you keep bringing up failed communist states when I try to have an argument with you.. I am not a communist! I don't believe in Stalinism nor Leninism.
I'm a moderate Democratic Socialist.
Holy shit man, do you need some kind of help?
I used the USSR/comintern as an example because they are the only other superpower to have existed other than the USA, and two of the best examples of proxy wars (like the one in ukraine) are Korea and Vietnam. I don't care about you so much that i give myself a notification to bring up the USSR everytime i see ur name...
Also, Ukraine is not a valuable ally to the EU or NATO. They are a corrupt 2nd world country that consists of corn fields and can't even defend themselves against gangs of thugs that have AK47s. They would be as useful to NATO as a wet carrot would.[close]
Just because they can't bet a combined force of rebels and Russia alone doesn't mean that they couldn't be a valuable ally.
Besides Ukraine is relatively rich on minerals, coal and nuclear fuel.
Giving enough time I'm sure they could rebuild their economy.
They can support themselves economically and are closely tied to commerce in western Europe. Allowing Slavs into the EU is a terrible idea. Filthy animals.
Yet Poland is in the EU.SpoilerWhat? Have you even watched the video?
But let me refine my statement for you the entire western world have been cowarding in front of Putin & his Russia for years we let him invade Georgia & now we are letting him invade Ukraine too.
I say it's time to stop acting as cowards & put some pressure on Putin. Before it's to late.
Yes i have watched the video.
And no, we haven't been cowarding infront of Putin, we have nothing to win from confronting him. If Ukraine can't even muster the will to fight for themselves then they can fuck off because realistically nobody cares about whether or not crimea and novorossiya belong to ukraine or russia.
And he isn't invading Ukraine, he is simply keeping the war going there for the fact that it drains resources from Ukraine and Eu, whilst also losing face of the western nations, as seen by the fact that Russian soldiers are only used for defensive actions. He doesn't actually care about Novorossiya either, if he did he this war would have been over last summer.
Nobody called the USSR a coward for chilling around while the Ameribuns were invading Vietnam or Korea, this is how the world works. If you have nothing to win, why would you fight for it?
They would win another ally in the east by helping Ukraine.
I'm not saying the west should go in with troops I bet sending them weapons which the American congress already approved could change the tide of the war.
Russians have been part of aggressive actions so your statement is wrong on that perspective and I could give zero fucks about the shitty USSR.
I don't know why you keep bringing up failed communist states when I try to have an argument with you.. I am not a communist! I don't believe in Stalinism nor Leninism.
I'm a moderate Democratic Socialist.
Holy shit man, do you need some kind of help?
I used the USSR/comintern as an example because they are the only other superpower to have existed other than the USA, and two of the best examples of proxy wars (like the one in ukraine) are Korea and Vietnam. I don't care about you so much that i give myself a notification to bring up the USSR everytime i see ur name...
Also, Ukraine is not a valuable ally to the EU or NATO. They are a corrupt 2nd world country that consists of corn fields and can't even defend themselves against gangs of thugs that have AK47s. They would be as useful to NATO as a wet carrot would.[close]
Just because they can't bet a combined force of rebels and Russia alone doesn't mean that they couldn't be a valuable ally.
Besides Ukraine is relatively rich on minerals, coal and nuclear fuel.
Giving enough time I'm sure they could rebuild their economy.
you're missing the point, obviously the EU and Nato do not give enough of a shit about the reasons you stated to actually give meaningful help to ukraine other than a bunch of decommissioned humvees
this isn't an argument about what they should do, it's what they are doing
They can support themselves economically and are closely tied to commerce in western Europe. Allowing Slavs into the EU is a terrible idea. Filthy animals.
Yet Poland is in the EU.SpoilerWhat? Have you even watched the video?
But let me refine my statement for you the entire western world have been cowarding in front of Putin & his Russia for years we let him invade Georgia & now we are letting him invade Ukraine too.
I say it's time to stop acting as cowards & put some pressure on Putin. Before it's to late.
Yes i have watched the video.
And no, we haven't been cowarding infront of Putin, we have nothing to win from confronting him. If Ukraine can't even muster the will to fight for themselves then they can fuck off because realistically nobody cares about whether or not crimea and novorossiya belong to ukraine or russia.
And he isn't invading Ukraine, he is simply keeping the war going there for the fact that it drains resources from Ukraine and Eu, whilst also losing face of the western nations, as seen by the fact that Russian soldiers are only used for defensive actions. He doesn't actually care about Novorossiya either, if he did he this war would have been over last summer.
Nobody called the USSR a coward for chilling around while the Ameribuns were invading Vietnam or Korea, this is how the world works. If you have nothing to win, why would you fight for it?
They would win another ally in the east by helping Ukraine.
I'm not saying the west should go in with troops I bet sending them weapons which the American congress already approved could change the tide of the war.
Russians have been part of aggressive actions so your statement is wrong on that perspective and I could give zero fucks about the shitty USSR.
I don't know why you keep bringing up failed communist states when I try to have an argument with you.. I am not a communist! I don't believe in Stalinism nor Leninism.
I'm a moderate Democratic Socialist.
Holy shit man, do you need some kind of help?
I used the USSR/comintern as an example because they are the only other superpower to have existed other than the USA, and two of the best examples of proxy wars (like the one in ukraine) are Korea and Vietnam. I don't care about you so much that i give myself a notification to bring up the USSR everytime i see ur name...
Also, Ukraine is not a valuable ally to the EU or NATO. They are a corrupt 2nd world country that consists of corn fields and can't even defend themselves against gangs of thugs that have AK47s. They would be as useful to NATO as a wet carrot would.[close]
Just because they can't bet a combined force of rebels and Russia alone doesn't mean that they couldn't be a valuable ally.
Besides Ukraine is relatively rich on minerals, coal and nuclear fuel.
Giving enough time I'm sure they could rebuild their economy.
you're missing the point, obviously the EU and Nato do not give enough of a shit about the reasons you stated to actually give meaningful help to ukraine other than a bunch of decommissioned humvees
this isn't an argument about what they should do, it's what they are doing
But that's not true is it?
You have been arguing for the Western powers not to get involved since you believe Ukraine isn't worth it.
Which I disagree to.
I think that all countries sovereignty should be respected but Russia doesn't give a damn they even enter Swedish waters & airspace along with other western countries.
For how long are we going to let Putin do what he wants?
I'm not saying us western powers are much better especially not USA giving liberty excuses to invade countries for their precious oil,
having one of the most corrupted governments on earth, having news stations such as fox news misleading the population almost as much as Russian media
supplying Islamist later to be terrorists and the list goes on.
But that's besides the point.
The point is Russia is the greatest threat to the western style of life which it has been since ww2.
I mean ISIS is just a shit stain if Putin could get what he wanted.
That's why I think we need to stick together and force Putin to behave himself.
SpoilerThey can support themselves economically and are closely tied to commerce in western Europe. Allowing Slavs into the EU is a terrible idea. Filthy animals.
Yet Poland is in the EU.SpoilerWhat? Have you even watched the video?
But let me refine my statement for you the entire western world have been cowarding in front of Putin & his Russia for years we let him invade Georgia & now we are letting him invade Ukraine too.
I say it's time to stop acting as cowards & put some pressure on Putin. Before it's to late.
Yes i have watched the video.
And no, we haven't been cowarding infront of Putin, we have nothing to win from confronting him. If Ukraine can't even muster the will to fight for themselves then they can fuck off because realistically nobody cares about whether or not crimea and novorossiya belong to ukraine or russia.
And he isn't invading Ukraine, he is simply keeping the war going there for the fact that it drains resources from Ukraine and Eu, whilst also losing face of the western nations, as seen by the fact that Russian soldiers are only used for defensive actions. He doesn't actually care about Novorossiya either, if he did he this war would have been over last summer.
Nobody called the USSR a coward for chilling around while the Ameribuns were invading Vietnam or Korea, this is how the world works. If you have nothing to win, why would you fight for it?
They would win another ally in the east by helping Ukraine.
I'm not saying the west should go in with troops I bet sending them weapons which the American congress already approved could change the tide of the war.
Russians have been part of aggressive actions so your statement is wrong on that perspective and I could give zero fucks about the shitty USSR.
I don't know why you keep bringing up failed communist states when I try to have an argument with you.. I am not a communist! I don't believe in Stalinism nor Leninism.
I'm a moderate Democratic Socialist.
Holy shit man, do you need some kind of help?
I used the USSR/comintern as an example because they are the only other superpower to have existed other than the USA, and two of the best examples of proxy wars (like the one in ukraine) are Korea and Vietnam. I don't care about you so much that i give myself a notification to bring up the USSR everytime i see ur name...
Also, Ukraine is not a valuable ally to the EU or NATO. They are a corrupt 2nd world country that consists of corn fields and can't even defend themselves against gangs of thugs that have AK47s. They would be as useful to NATO as a wet carrot would.[close]
Just because they can't bet a combined force of rebels and Russia alone doesn't mean that they couldn't be a valuable ally.
Besides Ukraine is relatively rich on minerals, coal and nuclear fuel.
Giving enough time I'm sure they could rebuild their economy.
you're missing the point, obviously the EU and Nato do not give enough of a shit about the reasons you stated to actually give meaningful help to ukraine other than a bunch of decommissioned humvees
this isn't an argument about what they should do, it's what they are doing
But that's not true is it?
You have been arguing for the Western powers not to get involved since you believe Ukraine isn't worth it.
Which I disagree to.
I think that all countries sovereignty should be respected but Russia doesn't give a damn they even enter Swedish waters & airspace along with other western countries.
For how long are we going to let Putin do what he wants?
I'm not saying us western powers are much better especially not USA giving liberty excuses to invade countries for their precious oil,
having one of the most corrupted governments on earth, having news stations such as fox news misleading the population almost as much as Russian media
supplying Islamist later to be terrorists and the list goes on.
But that's besides the point.
The point is Russia is the greatest threat to the western style of life which it has been since ww2.
I mean ISIS is just a shit stain if Putin could get what he wanted.
That's why I think we need to stick together and force Putin to behave himself.[close]
Lol.
If Putin was actually a thread to the western style of life that would just be another reason to support him.
I guess that's a good thing, because I don't think he would do anything that could be to their disadvantage.SpoilerThey can support themselves economically and are closely tied to commerce in western Europe. Allowing Slavs into the EU is a terrible idea. Filthy animals.
Yet Poland is in the EU.SpoilerWhat? Have you even watched the video?
But let me refine my statement for you the entire western world have been cowarding in front of Putin & his Russia for years we let him invade Georgia & now we are letting him invade Ukraine too.
I say it's time to stop acting as cowards & put some pressure on Putin. Before it's to late.
Yes i have watched the video.
And no, we haven't been cowarding infront of Putin, we have nothing to win from confronting him. If Ukraine can't even muster the will to fight for themselves then they can fuck off because realistically nobody cares about whether or not crimea and novorossiya belong to ukraine or russia.
And he isn't invading Ukraine, he is simply keeping the war going there for the fact that it drains resources from Ukraine and Eu, whilst also losing face of the western nations, as seen by the fact that Russian soldiers are only used for defensive actions. He doesn't actually care about Novorossiya either, if he did he this war would have been over last summer.
Nobody called the USSR a coward for chilling around while the Ameribuns were invading Vietnam or Korea, this is how the world works. If you have nothing to win, why would you fight for it?
They would win another ally in the east by helping Ukraine.
I'm not saying the west should go in with troops I bet sending them weapons which the American congress already approved could change the tide of the war.
Russians have been part of aggressive actions so your statement is wrong on that perspective and I could give zero fucks about the shitty USSR.
I don't know why you keep bringing up failed communist states when I try to have an argument with you.. I am not a communist! I don't believe in Stalinism nor Leninism.
I'm a moderate Democratic Socialist.
Holy shit man, do you need some kind of help?
I used the USSR/comintern as an example because they are the only other superpower to have existed other than the USA, and two of the best examples of proxy wars (like the one in ukraine) are Korea and Vietnam. I don't care about you so much that i give myself a notification to bring up the USSR everytime i see ur name...
Also, Ukraine is not a valuable ally to the EU or NATO. They are a corrupt 2nd world country that consists of corn fields and can't even defend themselves against gangs of thugs that have AK47s. They would be as useful to NATO as a wet carrot would.[close]
Just because they can't bet a combined force of rebels and Russia alone doesn't mean that they couldn't be a valuable ally.
Besides Ukraine is relatively rich on minerals, coal and nuclear fuel.
Giving enough time I'm sure they could rebuild their economy.
you're missing the point, obviously the EU and Nato do not give enough of a shit about the reasons you stated to actually give meaningful help to ukraine other than a bunch of decommissioned humvees
this isn't an argument about what they should do, it's what they are doing
But that's not true is it?
You have been arguing for the Western powers not to get involved since you believe Ukraine isn't worth it.
Which I disagree to.
I think that all countries sovereignty should be respected but Russia doesn't give a damn they even enter Swedish waters & airspace along with other western countries.
For how long are we going to let Putin do what he wants?
I'm not saying us western powers are much better especially not USA giving liberty excuses to invade countries for their precious oil,
having one of the most corrupted governments on earth, having news stations such as fox news misleading the population almost as much as Russian media
supplying Islamist later to be terrorists and the list goes on.
But that's besides the point.
The point is Russia is the greatest threat to the western style of life which it has been since ww2.
I mean ISIS is just a shit stain if Putin could get what he wanted.
That's why I think we need to stick together and force Putin to behave himself.[close]
Lol.
If Putin was actually a thread to the western style of life that would just be another reason to support him.
He has accumulated enough nationalism in Russia to do whatever the fuck he wants, with his people.
I guess that's a good thing, because I don't think he would do anything that could be to their disadvantage.SpoilerThey can support themselves economically and are closely tied to commerce in western Europe. Allowing Slavs into the EU is a terrible idea. Filthy animals.
Yet Poland is in the EU.SpoilerWhat? Have you even watched the video?
But let me refine my statement for you the entire western world have been cowarding in front of Putin & his Russia for years we let him invade Georgia & now we are letting him invade Ukraine too.
I say it's time to stop acting as cowards & put some pressure on Putin. Before it's to late.
Yes i have watched the video.
And no, we haven't been cowarding infront of Putin, we have nothing to win from confronting him. If Ukraine can't even muster the will to fight for themselves then they can fuck off because realistically nobody cares about whether or not crimea and novorossiya belong to ukraine or russia.
And he isn't invading Ukraine, he is simply keeping the war going there for the fact that it drains resources from Ukraine and Eu, whilst also losing face of the western nations, as seen by the fact that Russian soldiers are only used for defensive actions. He doesn't actually care about Novorossiya either, if he did he this war would have been over last summer.
Nobody called the USSR a coward for chilling around while the Ameribuns were invading Vietnam or Korea, this is how the world works. If you have nothing to win, why would you fight for it?
They would win another ally in the east by helping Ukraine.
I'm not saying the west should go in with troops I bet sending them weapons which the American congress already approved could change the tide of the war.
Russians have been part of aggressive actions so your statement is wrong on that perspective and I could give zero fucks about the shitty USSR.
I don't know why you keep bringing up failed communist states when I try to have an argument with you.. I am not a communist! I don't believe in Stalinism nor Leninism.
I'm a moderate Democratic Socialist.
Holy shit man, do you need some kind of help?
I used the USSR/comintern as an example because they are the only other superpower to have existed other than the USA, and two of the best examples of proxy wars (like the one in ukraine) are Korea and Vietnam. I don't care about you so much that i give myself a notification to bring up the USSR everytime i see ur name...
Also, Ukraine is not a valuable ally to the EU or NATO. They are a corrupt 2nd world country that consists of corn fields and can't even defend themselves against gangs of thugs that have AK47s. They would be as useful to NATO as a wet carrot would.[close]
Just because they can't bet a combined force of rebels and Russia alone doesn't mean that they couldn't be a valuable ally.
Besides Ukraine is relatively rich on minerals, coal and nuclear fuel.
Giving enough time I'm sure they could rebuild their economy.
you're missing the point, obviously the EU and Nato do not give enough of a shit about the reasons you stated to actually give meaningful help to ukraine other than a bunch of decommissioned humvees
this isn't an argument about what they should do, it's what they are doing
But that's not true is it?
You have been arguing for the Western powers not to get involved since you believe Ukraine isn't worth it.
Which I disagree to.
I think that all countries sovereignty should be respected but Russia doesn't give a damn they even enter Swedish waters & airspace along with other western countries.
For how long are we going to let Putin do what he wants?
I'm not saying us western powers are much better especially not USA giving liberty excuses to invade countries for their precious oil,
having one of the most corrupted governments on earth, having news stations such as fox news misleading the population almost as much as Russian media
supplying Islamist later to be terrorists and the list goes on.
But that's besides the point.
The point is Russia is the greatest threat to the western style of life which it has been since ww2.
I mean ISIS is just a shit stain if Putin could get what he wanted.
That's why I think we need to stick together and force Putin to behave himself.[close]
Lol.
If Putin was actually a thread to the western style of life that would just be another reason to support him.
He has accumulated enough nationalism in Russia to do whatever the fuck he wants, with his people.
Germany has once already been bombed to pieces and it haven't been the Russians. I don't think Russia would try to violate German airspace deliberately; Russia wants good relations to my country and there is no reason for quarrels.I guess that's a good thing, because I don't think he would do anything that could be to their disadvantage.SpoilerThey can support themselves economically and are closely tied to commerce in western Europe. Allowing Slavs into the EU is a terrible idea. Filthy animals.
Yet Poland is in the EU.SpoilerWhat? Have you even watched the video?
But let me refine my statement for you the entire western world have been cowarding in front of Putin & his Russia for years we let him invade Georgia & now we are letting him invade Ukraine too.
I say it's time to stop acting as cowards & put some pressure on Putin. Before it's to late.
Yes i have watched the video.
And no, we haven't been cowarding infront of Putin, we have nothing to win from confronting him. If Ukraine can't even muster the will to fight for themselves then they can fuck off because realistically nobody cares about whether or not crimea and novorossiya belong to ukraine or russia.
And he isn't invading Ukraine, he is simply keeping the war going there for the fact that it drains resources from Ukraine and Eu, whilst also losing face of the western nations, as seen by the fact that Russian soldiers are only used for defensive actions. He doesn't actually care about Novorossiya either, if he did he this war would have been over last summer.
Nobody called the USSR a coward for chilling around while the Ameribuns were invading Vietnam or Korea, this is how the world works. If you have nothing to win, why would you fight for it?
They would win another ally in the east by helping Ukraine.
I'm not saying the west should go in with troops I bet sending them weapons which the American congress already approved could change the tide of the war.
Russians have been part of aggressive actions so your statement is wrong on that perspective and I could give zero fucks about the shitty USSR.
I don't know why you keep bringing up failed communist states when I try to have an argument with you.. I am not a communist! I don't believe in Stalinism nor Leninism.
I'm a moderate Democratic Socialist.
Holy shit man, do you need some kind of help?
I used the USSR/comintern as an example because they are the only other superpower to have existed other than the USA, and two of the best examples of proxy wars (like the one in ukraine) are Korea and Vietnam. I don't care about you so much that i give myself a notification to bring up the USSR everytime i see ur name...
Also, Ukraine is not a valuable ally to the EU or NATO. They are a corrupt 2nd world country that consists of corn fields and can't even defend themselves against gangs of thugs that have AK47s. They would be as useful to NATO as a wet carrot would.[close]
Just because they can't bet a combined force of rebels and Russia alone doesn't mean that they couldn't be a valuable ally.
Besides Ukraine is relatively rich on minerals, coal and nuclear fuel.
Giving enough time I'm sure they could rebuild their economy.
you're missing the point, obviously the EU and Nato do not give enough of a shit about the reasons you stated to actually give meaningful help to ukraine other than a bunch of decommissioned humvees
this isn't an argument about what they should do, it's what they are doing
But that's not true is it?
You have been arguing for the Western powers not to get involved since you believe Ukraine isn't worth it.
Which I disagree to.
I think that all countries sovereignty should be respected but Russia doesn't give a damn they even enter Swedish waters & airspace along with other western countries.
For how long are we going to let Putin do what he wants?
I'm not saying us western powers are much better especially not USA giving liberty excuses to invade countries for their precious oil,
having one of the most corrupted governments on earth, having news stations such as fox news misleading the population almost as much as Russian media
supplying Islamist later to be terrorists and the list goes on.
But that's besides the point.
The point is Russia is the greatest threat to the western style of life which it has been since ww2.
I mean ISIS is just a shit stain if Putin could get what he wanted.
That's why I think we need to stick together and force Putin to behave himself.[close]
Lol.
If Putin was actually a thread to the western style of life that would just be another reason to support him.
He has accumulated enough nationalism in Russia to do whatever the fuck he wants, with his people.
I assume you will have the same opinion when/if Russia violate German airspace?
Germany has once already been bombed to pieces and it haven't been the Russians. I don't think Russia would try to violate German airspace deliberately; Russia wants good relations to my country and there is no reason for quarrels.I guess that's a good thing, because I don't think he would do anything that could be to their disadvantage.SpoilerThey can support themselves economically and are closely tied to commerce in western Europe. Allowing Slavs into the EU is a terrible idea. Filthy animals.
Yet Poland is in the EU.SpoilerWhat? Have you even watched the video?
But let me refine my statement for you the entire western world have been cowarding in front of Putin & his Russia for years we let him invade Georgia & now we are letting him invade Ukraine too.
I say it's time to stop acting as cowards & put some pressure on Putin. Before it's to late.
Yes i have watched the video.
And no, we haven't been cowarding infront of Putin, we have nothing to win from confronting him. If Ukraine can't even muster the will to fight for themselves then they can fuck off because realistically nobody cares about whether or not crimea and novorossiya belong to ukraine or russia.
And he isn't invading Ukraine, he is simply keeping the war going there for the fact that it drains resources from Ukraine and Eu, whilst also losing face of the western nations, as seen by the fact that Russian soldiers are only used for defensive actions. He doesn't actually care about Novorossiya either, if he did he this war would have been over last summer.
Nobody called the USSR a coward for chilling around while the Ameribuns were invading Vietnam or Korea, this is how the world works. If you have nothing to win, why would you fight for it?
They would win another ally in the east by helping Ukraine.
I'm not saying the west should go in with troops I bet sending them weapons which the American congress already approved could change the tide of the war.
Russians have been part of aggressive actions so your statement is wrong on that perspective and I could give zero fucks about the shitty USSR.
I don't know why you keep bringing up failed communist states when I try to have an argument with you.. I am not a communist! I don't believe in Stalinism nor Leninism.
I'm a moderate Democratic Socialist.
Holy shit man, do you need some kind of help?
I used the USSR/comintern as an example because they are the only other superpower to have existed other than the USA, and two of the best examples of proxy wars (like the one in ukraine) are Korea and Vietnam. I don't care about you so much that i give myself a notification to bring up the USSR everytime i see ur name...
Also, Ukraine is not a valuable ally to the EU or NATO. They are a corrupt 2nd world country that consists of corn fields and can't even defend themselves against gangs of thugs that have AK47s. They would be as useful to NATO as a wet carrot would.[close]
Just because they can't bet a combined force of rebels and Russia alone doesn't mean that they couldn't be a valuable ally.
Besides Ukraine is relatively rich on minerals, coal and nuclear fuel.
Giving enough time I'm sure they could rebuild their economy.
you're missing the point, obviously the EU and Nato do not give enough of a shit about the reasons you stated to actually give meaningful help to ukraine other than a bunch of decommissioned humvees
this isn't an argument about what they should do, it's what they are doing
But that's not true is it?
You have been arguing for the Western powers not to get involved since you believe Ukraine isn't worth it.
Which I disagree to.
I think that all countries sovereignty should be respected but Russia doesn't give a damn they even enter Swedish waters & airspace along with other western countries.
For how long are we going to let Putin do what he wants?
I'm not saying us western powers are much better especially not USA giving liberty excuses to invade countries for their precious oil,
having one of the most corrupted governments on earth, having news stations such as fox news misleading the population almost as much as Russian media
supplying Islamist later to be terrorists and the list goes on.
But that's besides the point.
The point is Russia is the greatest threat to the western style of life which it has been since ww2.
I mean ISIS is just a shit stain if Putin could get what he wanted.
That's why I think we need to stick together and force Putin to behave himself.[close]
Lol.
If Putin was actually a thread to the western style of life that would just be another reason to support him.
He has accumulated enough nationalism in Russia to do whatever the fuck he wants, with his people.
I assume you will have the same opinion when/if Russia violate German airspace?
And you must have been misinformed, there was no confirmed violation of Swedish waters by any foreign military forces lately.
And the whole Russian-controlling-basically-everything-thingy?
Russia is working to have a diplomatic solution. It should not bother Germany much though. German interests are neither in Ukraine, Afghanistan, Iraq or any other country the Americans are currently bombing or would like to bomb.
Which quite perfectly fit the Russians.
I suggest you have a look at the ten commandments of war propaganda by Anne Morelli:This book is a bit simple but it's a good one. I bought it when I was a teen.
geopolitics = why Russia behaves that way.LOL stfu North Korea
Unfortunately they must behave in a certain way. It's a matter of national security.
NATO is such a threat to Russians. Its aggressive and imperialist character should be clear to anyone.Thank you.
If anything, the EU and NATO, and especially the media, have stayed clear of pointing out 'the guilty party'.
I haven't heard anyone NATO official claim that our cause is holy, that all crimes are commited by the Russians, that the Russians use forbidden weapons (While they did accuse the Ukrainians of that). Media report far more about Ukrainian casualties, rather then Russians. NATO has always claimed to be defending her own interest instead of some holy cause - Threats to the baltic states being the most-often used reason.
Guilty of what? I've seen NATO officials and press releases pointing the finger at Russia for aggression in Ukraine, continued support of the separatists, weapon supplies, rising tensions, nuclear saber rattling and for braking the Minsk agreement.
Which quite perfectly fit the Russians.
omg can you stop being a fuckboi and realise the eu and nato are guilty of the same things?
Well then this applies to every nation in every war, ever.
Guilty of what? I've seen NATO officials and press releases pointing the finger at Russia for aggression in Ukraine, continued support of the separatists, weapon supplies, rising tensions, nuclear saber rattling and for braking the Minsk agreement.
All of which they did.
Russia complaining about NATO expansion is too ridicious for words considering they're pretty much the one and only reason nations joined NATO. The difference between the western 'accusations' and that of the Russians is that we can back them up by proof (Weapons are being supplied, Russian soldeirs are fighting in Ukraine, and they have no respect for the Minsk agreements as seen in Devaltsebe), while the Russians base their accusations on their (idiotic) state of mind. The notion that 'they marginalize us internationally' is so ridicious that it hurts my eyes. This isn't a fucking classroom full of toddlers where you can start beating your neighbour once you aren't being paid enough attention. It's not really our fault Russia is such a failure as a nation.
And please don't go 'hur dur NATO forces membership upon states'. The current actions in the baltic states show they consider Russia a real threat, and the nation with the most negative view on Russia is, of the entire NATO, Poland. If anything, it are the western nations where popular support for the NATO alliance is crumbling; mostly out of fear that they might get involved in a conflict.
In regards to enlargement: As I have already pointed out with the case of Georgia; any military bloc seeking an alliance with an unstable country bordering Russia who may actually pick a fight with Russia and lean on the alliance to back it up; is being reckless and I can see how this would be a point of National and International security for Russia.
Russia made no secret of the fact that they would be unable to halt the Debaltseve offensive even with the Minsk agreement in place.
QuoteIn regards to enlargement: As I have already pointed out with the case of Georgia; any military bloc seeking an alliance with an unstable country bordering Russia who may actually pick a fight with Russia and lean on the alliance to back it up; is being reckless and I can see how this would be a point of National and International security for Russia.
And as far as I know, Georgia is still not a NATO member.
Russia made no secret of the fact that they would be unable to halt the Debaltseve offensive even with the Minsk agreement in place.
And just to make sure of that, they send in Russian regulars with tanks.
Did you see that Vice News report that was just posted. It proofs that Russian regulars were present at Devaltsebe.
I never said it was okay to have regime changes. It was you who claimed Russia 'couldn't do anything about Devaltsebe', and when shown proof of direct Russian involvement, you just wave it away and say they're 'taking liberties'?
geopolitics = why Russia behaves that way.LOL stfu North Korea
Unfortunately they must behave in a certain way. It's a matter of national security.
You're actually saying that Russia does not control Russian forces?
I've stopped coming here for current events and now more so to just see the fights that go on between people with and without brains. I love this thread 100x more now! ;D
Duuring approves:
(https://strasilo.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/textbookimg1_1_l.jpg)
Duuring approves:
(https://strasilo.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/textbookimg1_1_l.jpg)
Is that from a schoolbook or something? Shit.
Spoiler(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11167998_682646285169486_6509237618689786837_n.jpg?oh=37bb6be4ed1868343c64943ec46e7d23&oe=561EAA2F)[close]
Unlike western media which made the police responsible for the killings without any evidence whatsoever (that's how journalism works) , RT actually did a lot of research about that topic without blaming anybody.Spoiler(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11167998_682646285169486_6509237618689786837_n.jpg?oh=37bb6be4ed1868343c64943ec46e7d23&oe=561EAA2F)[close]
made me laugh for ages
Unlike western media which made the police responsible for the killings without any evidence whatsoever (that's how journalism works) , RT actually did a lot of research about that topic without blaming anybody.Spoiler(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11167998_682646285169486_6509237618689786837_n.jpg?oh=37bb6be4ed1868343c64943ec46e7d23&oe=561EAA2F)[close]
made me laugh for ages
transsexual feminist pro lgbt quasi communist socialist that has stopped eating gluten since the age of 14 and religiously watches keeping up with the kardashians
Duuring approves:Spoiler(https://strasilo.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/textbookimg1_1_l.jpg)[close]
Is that from a schoolbook or something? Shit.
Lel, iz dutch school book.
Duuring approves:Spoiler(https://strasilo.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/textbookimg1_1_l.jpg)[close]
Is that from a schoolbook or something? Shit.
Lel, iz dutch school book.
It is. It's very similar to my High School history book, where you'd get different cartoons from different countries and you had to think why the drawer drew it and what he means by it.
It's really anything but propaganda.
It's really anything but propaganda.
It's a totally impartial piece of information that doesn't intend to influence people.
He literally just stated that the task in the book is to determine why it was drawn that way etc. It's teaching students awareness of propaganda.It's really anything but propaganda.
It's a totally impartial piece of information that doesn't intend to influence people.
He literally just stated that the task in the book is to determine why it was drawn that way etc. It's teaching students awareness of propaganda.It's really anything but propaganda.
It's a totally impartial piece of information that doesn't intend to influence people.
Pretty sure it's not even a real piece of propaganda; it was drawn and designed specifically for that book.
Are gays allowed in North Korea?
Spoiler(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10991405_675699252552681_2509364096020940436_n.jpg?oh=16dfbd77baa4a0f27544a83f3c1ff9ae&oe=55E75EBB)[close]
Yeah, those picture from Georgia, I know.Spoiler(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10991405_675699252552681_2509364096020940436_n.jpg?oh=16dfbd77baa4a0f27544a83f3c1ff9ae&oe=55E75EBB)[close]
but, there are several photos of russian tanks crossing the border in ukraine, fggggggt
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2015%2F02%2F15%2F25B2BF4700000578-0-Militants_drive_through_Donetsk_this_morning_as_Ukrainians_said_-a-23_1423995763572.jpg&hash=ff4b79b8810c5eeae7966cc31966d908ee79d778)Yeah, those picture from Georgia, I know.Spoiler(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10991405_675699252552681_2509364096020940436_n.jpg?oh=16dfbd77baa4a0f27544a83f3c1ff9ae&oe=55E75EBB)[close]
but, there are several photos of russian tanks crossing the border in ukraine, fggggggt
I see armed men on vehicles. Funny enough, even in the url it says Militants_drive_through_Donetsk_this_morning_as_Ukrainians_said(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2015%2F02%2F15%2F25B2BF4700000578-0-Militants_drive_through_Donetsk_this_morning_as_Ukrainians_said_-a-23_1423995763572.jpg&hash=ff4b79b8810c5eeae7966cc31966d908ee79d778)Yeah, those picture from Georgia, I know.Spoiler(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10991405_675699252552681_2509364096020940436_n.jpg?oh=16dfbd77baa4a0f27544a83f3c1ff9ae&oe=55E75EBB)[close]
but, there are several photos of russian tanks crossing the border in ukraine, fggggggt
Taken in Donetsk.
It doesn't even really matter at this point.That's right.
i think the real question to be asked is how the fuck has this been going on for 18 months?
It doesn't even really matter at this point.That's right.
I think Simon's VICE piece a few weeks ago did a pretty good job of confirming Russians in Ukraine. Still though, shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
Damn, you nearly triggered me there. Thanks for the *I think Simon's VICE piece a few weeks ago did a pretty good job of confirming Russians in Ukraine. Still though, shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
there are no russians in ukraine fagg*t
its censored calm the fuck down
Damn, you nearly triggered me there. Thanks for the *I think Simon's VICE piece a few weeks ago did a pretty good job of confirming Russians in Ukraine. Still though, shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
there are no russians in ukraine fagg*t
its censored calm the fuck down
I think Simon's VICE piece a few weeks ago did a pretty good job of confirming Russians in Ukraine. Still though, shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
Banned for offending the Nation of Nigeria.I'm just curious as to why the US and NATO/EU are using sanctions to counter Russia considering the effects that they're having on EU economies as well as Russia's. I would say this is a problem that is affecting the German economy the most seeing as that they were in intense negotiations with Russia over trading and arms trading. I wonder if there is some other way to punish Russia other then economically while at the same time not using hostile force. Maybe it's just me though, idk.I think Simon's VICE piece a few weeks ago did a pretty good job of confirming Russians in Ukraine. Still though, shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
It was a great piece. It was previously difficult to tell in what capacity they where being sent there, if they were being sent as complete units, if they were actually ordered or encouraged to go, whether they were still operating under Russian military hierarchy and whether or not the support on the front-lines was limited to special forces or entire regular units. On that last point the latter seems to be the case.
The assumption and suspicion for greater Russian military involvement in Ukraine was there but the evidence was always more suggestive than conclusive when attempting to get a picture of the overall scale of Russian involvement. As time goes by though the evidence begins to stack.
I'd be interested to know just how many Russian units operate in the Ukraine at any given time, given that the Ukraine has thrown over 30,000(?) men at the problem.
Apparently a fire fight erupted between right sector and police in Western Ukraine:
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/shootout-in-western-ukraine-takes-away-the-lives-of-at-least-2-people-questions-national-security-393245.html
Please, this is the first major incident in 1,5 years. We barely know anything about the causes or who exactly is involved. Russia had a similar incident a while back in Chechnya, yet no-one is claiming they are in a civil war.
If anything, the Ukrainian government is handling the situation well, calling for all parties to cease the fighting, sending security troops to the Oblast and calling for an investigation while allowing international observers into the area. The Russians, at the other hand, just started shooting until everybody was dead.
Good job using a slur against a moderator. Truly next level intellect herePlease, this is the first major incident in 1,5 years. We barely know anything about the causes or who exactly is involved. Russia had a similar incident a while back in Chechnya, yet no-one is claiming they are in a civil war.
If anything, the Ukrainian government is handling the situation well, calling for all parties to cease the fighting, sending security troops to the Oblast and calling for an investigation while allowing international observers into the area. The Russians, at the other hand, just started shooting until everybody was dead.
Duuring is pro Ukraine fag.
Good job using a slur against a moderator. Truly next level intellect herePlease, this is the first major incident in 1,5 years. We barely know anything about the causes or who exactly is involved. Russia had a similar incident a while back in Chechnya, yet no-one is claiming they are in a civil war.
If anything, the Ukrainian government is handling the situation well, calling for all parties to cease the fighting, sending security troops to the Oblast and calling for an investigation while allowing international observers into the area. The Russians, at the other hand, just started shooting until everybody was dead.
Duuring is pro Ukraine fag.
Argumentum ad hominemGood job using a slur against a moderator. Truly next level intellect herePlease, this is the first major incident in 1,5 years. We barely know anything about the causes or who exactly is involved. Russia had a similar incident a while back in Chechnya, yet no-one is claiming they are in a civil war.
If anything, the Ukrainian government is handling the situation well, calling for all parties to cease the fighting, sending security troops to the Oblast and calling for an investigation while allowing international observers into the area. The Russians, at the other hand, just started shooting until everybody was dead.
Duuring is pro Ukraine fag.
Says the fascist.
Argumentum ad hominemGood job using a slur against a moderator. Truly next level intellect herePlease, this is the first major incident in 1,5 years. We barely know anything about the causes or who exactly is involved. Russia had a similar incident a while back in Chechnya, yet no-one is claiming they are in a civil war.
If anything, the Ukrainian government is handling the situation well, calling for all parties to cease the fighting, sending security troops to the Oblast and calling for an investigation while allowing international observers into the area. The Russians, at the other hand, just started shooting until everybody was dead.
Duuring is pro Ukraine fag.
Says the fascist.
Duuring is a pro Ukraine fag tho.
Good job using a slur against a moderator. Truly divine intellect here
Please, this is the first major incident in 1,5 years. We barely know anything about the causes or who exactly is involved. Russia had a similar incident a while back in Chechnya, yet no-one is claiming they are in a civil war.
If anything, the Ukrainian government is handling the situation well, calling for all parties to cease the fighting, sending security troops to the Oblast and calling for an investigation while allowing international observers into the area. The Russians, at the other hand, just started shooting until everybody was dead.
"Syrian" economic migrants got their attention -.-
We can expect a joke like that from a Russian.
i hope all of ukraine becomes part of russia cus russia is actually the real owner of ukraine but just lost it so its only fair that ukraine is part of russia since they actually owned but lost it in a bet and because of a stupid president.Stupid president? I think it happend long time ago in 17th century
i hope all of ukraine becomes part of russia cus russia is actually the real owner of ukraine but just lost it so its only fair that ukraine is part of russia since they actually owned but lost it in a bet and because of a stupid president.Stupid president? I think it happend long time ago in 17th century
Russia actually belonged to Ukraine. ::)
So what's going on in Ukraine? Did Russia just invade them or is it more complicated than that?woah woah no of course not
pls I ignorant American and need the superior eu to halp meSo what's going on in Ukraine? Did Russia just invade them or is it more complicated than that?woah woah no of course not