Author Topic: What IS killing the game?  (Read 63983 times)

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Offline SeanBeansShako

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #135 on: June 14, 2014, 05:39:14 pm »
It really breathed some new life into Battlefield 3 too.

Offline dutchsharpe

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #136 on: June 21, 2014, 11:24:02 pm »
Steam must have heard about this..

Offline Death by EMP

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #137 on: June 22, 2014, 01:17:30 am »
It's not because of the price of the game, this is fact. Just look at the trend with people leaving. "The game is getting boring" "I'd rather focus my time on IRL and other worthwhile endeavors, and so I quit entirely". 2 of the prominent ones. Look at Warcraft 3. I believe it's over a decade old and still has a larger playerbase than NW. Ask yourself why that is and you find the answer to both your questions. Warcraft 3 has a) a more in depth gameplay system and b) a larger esports scene. NW has tried to achieve a strong standing in both these spots but has ultimately failed, and will not likely happen. The game simply isn't advanced enough to keep it fresh forever. Sure there is many techniques but they are not as numerous as most other long standing games. You think of the games that have managed to captivate their community for ages and most of what you will come up with are strategy games. Warcraft 3, DotA, Starcraft: Brood War. Why strategy games? Because the amount of stuff to learn and discover, whether it be unit strategies, army strategies, map strategies so on and so forth is nearly limitless. In NW you master 2 (could be debated 3 weapons) and you're pretty much set for the whole game, and these weapons aren't particularly hard to master either. Learn to efficiently use the musket and bayonet and you have essentially mastered the game (Sword optional adding up to 3 weapons). In a strategy game if you want to be the best, be a masterful player or whatever you hope to acheive, you will have to master every single unit of every single army, on every single map, in which every single map any one unit has a different use and strategy and then tack on the fact that 2 of the 3 of these games have custom map creators which are commonly used and sometimes create entirely new games with whole new sets of units and strategies to master (Warcraft 3 ---> DotA) and you realize why these games have managed to keep their fans hooked for over a decade. The sooner you realize NW is not that advanced and never will be, the sooner you can learn to accept the game will die, and it is probably going to be soon. Not even the mods can make it fresh because it can be argued that maps don't have that big of an effect on gameplay (Not anywhere near as mucha s previously mentioned games anyways) and most mods are a reskin not a total conversion, so there is not much change. Honestly the big secret to keeping the game alive is the modders, more specifically, we need an exceptionally talented and creative mod team to make something that makes the game different enough for you to believe it is an actual mod/ total conversion rather than a reskin. The game needs to not only look different, but feel different. Keep the same old combat that we've grown to love, but implement it in a way that is new and fresh. cRPG team has managed to do this for Native, as has the crew behind Vikingr. We've yet to come even close to this for NW however, I'd say the closest attempt was IE but they messed up on 2 areas 1) The talent was not there (Sorry but it's true, the servers barely handled most of the big things people were excited about like grenades and artillery, and it became unplayable with 100+ people), they had too much ambition and maybe should have tried something more tame for their first mod. and 2) It focused on gunplay rather than melee. Only a daft man believes gunplay is what keeps people hooked to NW for 2,000+ hours. No, huge 200 man organized linebattle events and in-depth melee keeps people hooked for thousands upon thousands of hours.

I'd like you guys to look at Native. We know Native has the larger playerbase at this point and time, now you have to realize why. The answer is simple, there is more weapons to learn and more combat styles to have. The large selection of weapons and weapon types along with the customizability makes the game much more in-depth than NW. Simple as that. Now look at it's most successful mods and see what they do. cRPG, Nord Invasion, PW. What do they have in common? They take the core strength of Warband and revolutionize it with a whole new system, implementing it into something new and fresh that veterans will be familiar with, but new to at the same time, and to newcomers will feel like a whole new game. cRPG adds a persistent role playing system to the game, making you work for your gear and stats, rather than having them handed to you at troop selection, and it also freshens up and improves combat with many new systems and rebalances. Nord Invasion turns the game into a coop wave survival mod with the persistence of cRPG. PW takes the combat of native and adds it into basically a whole new game where you undergo the role of whoever you want to be, whether it be merchant, miner or town guard.

Mount and Musket did the same thing as these mods, it took the core concept and turned it into basically a brand new game. Adding muskets and the resources for players to run organized linebattle re-enactments? Yeah that's minty fresh. Unfortunately the concept is just not as advanced or changed to have the longevity these other mods have. If we want to breathe new life into NW we need to update the formula to where it keeps the core concept but feels like a new game. We need a MRPG (Musket Role Playing Game), we need a PLB??? (Persistent Linebattle) (It's a thought), something that will reinvent the game but keep the things we love. That's what the successful Native mods do. You can't say Native isn't made more popular and kept alive by it's mods, without them it would be dead already. Unfortunately, thus far, NW has only been kept alive by itself. All it's mods so far have been re-skins or failed attempts, and it will stay that way until we get that one mod that gets it right.

Offline Saxon

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #138 on: June 22, 2014, 06:58:55 pm »
Spoiler
It's not because of the price of the game, this is fact. Just look at the trend with people leaving. "The game is getting boring" "I'd rather focus my time on IRL and other worthwhile endeavors, and so I quit entirely". 2 of the prominent ones. Look at Warcraft 3. I believe it's over a decade old and still has a larger playerbase than NW. Ask yourself why that is and you find the answer to both your questions. Warcraft 3 has a) a more in depth gameplay system and b) a larger esports scene. NW has tried to achieve a strong standing in both these spots but has ultimately failed, and will not likely happen. The game simply isn't advanced enough to keep it fresh forever. Sure there is many techniques but they are not as numerous as most other long standing games. You think of the games that have managed to captivate their community for ages and most of what you will come up with are strategy games. Warcraft 3, DotA, Starcraft: Brood War. Why strategy games? Because the amount of stuff to learn and discover, whether it be unit strategies, army strategies, map strategies so on and so forth is nearly limitless. In NW you master 2 (could be debated 3 weapons) and you're pretty much set for the whole game, and these weapons aren't particularly hard to master either. Learn to efficiently use the musket and bayonet and you have essentially mastered the game (Sword optional adding up to 3 weapons). In a strategy game if you want to be the best, be a masterful player or whatever you hope to acheive, you will have to master every single unit of every single army, on every single map, in which every single map any one unit has a different use and strategy and then tack on the fact that 2 of the 3 of these games have custom map creators which are commonly used and sometimes create entirely new games with whole new sets of units and strategies to master (Warcraft 3 ---> DotA) and you realize why these games have managed to keep their fans hooked for over a decade. The sooner you realize NW is not that advanced and never will be, the sooner you can learn to accept the game will die, and it is probably going to be soon. Not even the mods can make it fresh because it can be argued that maps don't have that big of an effect on gameplay (Not anywhere near as mucha s previously mentioned games anyways) and most mods are a reskin not a total conversion, so there is not much change. Honestly the big secret to keeping the game alive is the modders, more specifically, we need an exceptionally talented and creative mod team to make something that makes the game different enough for you to believe it is an actual mod/ total conversion rather than a reskin. The game needs to not only look different, but feel different. Keep the same old combat that we've grown to love, but implement it in a way that is new and fresh. cRPG team has managed to do this for Native, as has the crew behind Vikingr. We've yet to come even close to this for NW however, I'd say the closest attempt was IE but they messed up on 2 areas 1) The talent was not there (Sorry but it's true, the servers barely handled most of the big things people were excited about like grenades and artillery, and it became unplayable with 100+ people), they had too much ambition and maybe should have tried something more tame for their first mod. and 2) It focused on gunplay rather than melee. Only a daft man believes gunplay is what keeps people hooked to NW for 2,000+ hours. No, huge 200 man organized linebattle events and in-depth melee keeps people hooked for thousands upon thousands of hours.

I'd like you guys to look at Native. We know Native has the larger playerbase at this point and time, now you have to realize why. The answer is simple, there is more weapons to learn and more combat styles to have. The large selection of weapons and weapon types along with the customizability makes the game much more in-depth than NW. Simple as that. Now look at it's most successful mods and see what they do. cRPG, Nord Invasion, PW. What do they have in common? They take the core strength of Warband and revolutionize it with a whole new system, implementing it into something new and fresh that veterans will be familiar with, but new to at the same time, and to newcomers will feel like a whole new game. cRPG adds a persistent role playing system to the game, making you work for your gear and stats, rather than having them handed to you at troop selection, and it also freshens up and improves combat with many new systems and rebalances. Nord Invasion turns the game into a coop wave survival mod with the persistence of cRPG. PW takes the combat of native and adds it into basically a whole new game where you undergo the role of whoever you want to be, whether it be merchant, miner or town guard.

Mount and Musket did the same thing as these mods, it took the core concept and turned it into basically a brand new game. Adding muskets and the resources for players to run organized linebattle re-enactments? Yeah that's minty fresh. Unfortunately the concept is just not as advanced or changed to have the longevity these other mods have. If we want to breathe new life into NW we need to update the formula to where it keeps the core concept but feels like a new game. We need a MRPG (Musket Role Playing Game), we need a PLB??? (Persistent Linebattle) (It's a thought), something that will reinvent the game but keep the things we love. That's what the successful Native mods do. You can't say Native isn't made more popular and kept alive by it's mods, without them it would be dead already. Unfortunately, thus far, NW has only been kept alive by itself. All it's mods so far have been re-skins or failed attempts, and it will stay that way until we get that one mod that gets it right.
[close]
Good read and well said :D Not sure what else they could implement with the melee however xD There needs to be a good module out, I only enjoy(ed) ACOK and PW and the guys who made PW have made persistent frontier and persistent age which is basically the same thing... NW overhaul is the way forward
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Offline Grozni

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #139 on: June 23, 2014, 02:48:16 pm »
Some examples of people being wrong on the internet I think:

-The game is dying because of outdated graphics
Not really, outdated graphics is the main reason game has been alive for this long. This goes for Mount&Blade and all it's mods in general, if the game wasn't playable on low-end machines it would be dead by now, left by unfaithful audience composed of high-performance machine owners, who are often spoiled and low in spirit, and would rather go for simpler titles which let them achieve more self praise with less effort. I think portion of active players who don't own high-end machines is very large, and if somehow they all disappeared at once, the game would become dead that instant. With that being said, about 50% of epic figures I met, who I can't imagine game without, are running the game on crappy machines.

-NW has lack of depth
No, it does have lack of options to choose from, yes, but the depth of these options is amazing, proven by the fact that specialized (infantry and cav group fight) servers are always alive. Don't confuse quantity with quality, number of options and depth given by them. Depth of cavalry play is almost infinite, especially thanks to hussar horse, and you can spend years playing and learning process will hardly ever stop completely. Bayonet has depth as well, bit less than cav I think but I'm no expert there.

-The game is dying
Ofc, very very slowly though, I think it still has some life ahead of it, because there is nothing like it, you won't find these types of events in any other game, nor the melee system.

The game held amazingly well considering it is just a TC. The only reason I can think of NW is (slowly) dying, apart from natural reason of it being old, is because it is so dependent on friendships and bonds between people. Although this is initially good, it can also become a problem, as in some regiments all it takes is a couple of charismatic members drifting away from the game (for whichever reason, doesn't mean they got bored with it), and then slowly everything starts to collapse as older members miss the old friends and are annoyed by new recruits, the game loses meaning for them and becomes a 2nd or 3rd choice or they stop playing completely. Event the departure of enemy and hated rival can be a push for someone to quit playing. Probably same applied to real soldiers, who's friends got killed during campaigns and had their ranks filled with annoying new recruits, only they were forced by law to continue playing the game (now that sounds like a great idea :D)

Offline Death by EMP

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #140 on: June 23, 2014, 03:23:21 pm »
Some examples of people being wrong on the internet I think:

-The game is dying because of outdated graphics
Not really, outdated graphics is the main reason game has been alive for this long. This goes for Mount&Blade and all it's mods in general, if the game wasn't playable on low-end machines it would be dead by now, left by unfaithful audience composed of high-performance machine owners, who are often spoiled and low in spirit, and would rather go for simpler titles which let them achieve more self praise with less effort. I think portion of active players who don't own high-end machines is very large, and if somehow they all disappeared at once, the game would become dead that instant. With that being said, about 50% of epic figures I met, who I can't imagine game without, are running the game on crappy machines.

-NW has lack of depth
No, it does have lack of options to choose from, yes, but the depth of these options is amazing, proven by the fact that specialized (infantry and cav group fight) servers are always alive. Don't confuse quantity with quality, number of options and depth given by them. Depth of cavalry play is almost infinite, especially thanks to hussar horse, and you can spend years playing and learning process will hardly ever stop completely. Bayonet has depth as well, bit less than cav I think but I'm no expert there.

-The game is dying
Ofc, very very slowly though, I think it still has some life ahead of it, because there is nothing like it, you won't find these types of events in any other game, nor the melee system.

The game held amazingly well considering it is just a TC. The only reason I can think of NW is (slowly) dying, apart from natural reason of it being old, is because it is so dependent on friendships and bonds between people. Although this is initially good, it can also become a problem, as in some regiments all it takes is a couple of charismatic members drifting away from the game (for whichever reason, doesn't mean they got bored with it), and then slowly everything starts to collapse as older members miss the old friends and are annoyed by new recruits, the game loses meaning for them and becomes a 2nd or 3rd choice or they stop playing completely. Event the departure of enemy and hated rival can be a push for someone to quit playing. Probably same applied to real soldiers, who's friends got killed during campaigns and had their ranks filled with annoying new recruits, only they were forced by law to continue playing the game (now that sounds like a great idea :D)
You are wrong because I say so.

Offline Grozni

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #141 on: June 23, 2014, 06:40:21 pm »
I agree, my thoughts exactly.

Offline Merek

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #142 on: June 23, 2014, 06:48:25 pm »
Yes many have left, but there is still a considerable number of people playing Napoleonic Wars, especially those involved in regiments. Most players have moved over to the Persistent World modification for Native, or at least so I've noticed.

This is a game. Games get boring. That's simply what's happening.

Offline Newkirk

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #143 on: June 24, 2014, 08:43:43 am »
As predicted the Steam summer sale has breathed new life into the playerbase. Servers are full of pubs these days.

Offline Death by EMP

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #144 on: June 24, 2014, 09:38:22 am »
As predicted the Steam summer sale has breathed new life into the playerbase. Servers are full of pubs these days.
last a month

Offline Newkirk

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #145 on: June 24, 2014, 08:25:53 pm »
As predicted the Steam summer sale has breathed new life into the playerbase. Servers are full of pubs these days.
last a month
Those that stick around in the regiments, still a huge relief.

Offline PraetorianOverlord

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #146 on: June 25, 2014, 02:18:31 am »
Two things, I do see some players leaving NW because they got bored of it, but down here in AU/NZ there are still about as many players as before.
Also I heard some people saying earlier that there was a decline in the amount of events, down here there hasn't been a decline in events, some could argue that there are more events.
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Offline Lawrence

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #147 on: June 25, 2014, 03:49:37 am »
I have been playing napoleonic wars and MM since release... Linebattles are boring to me now.. Recruiting is boring, groupfighting is boring now... For old players, this game is just boring... We have seen it, been through it, and lived it all. As these old vets leave regiments and leave the game, some aspects of regiments and communities will crumble with NW because of it. BCoF will be a rebirth and be so much more fun and new... NW is just old and that is why the game is dying.

Offline Faultier

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #148 on: June 28, 2014, 09:16:27 pm »
Updates keeps the game alive and veterans interested. With no updates, the long-time-motivation will suffer -> End of NW
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Offline Fifflaren

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Re: What IS killing the game?
« Reply #149 on: June 29, 2014, 12:50:51 am »
92nd