Flying Squirrel Entertainment

Mount & Blade Warband: Napoleonic Wars => General Discussion => Topic started by: Benallo on February 25, 2019, 11:43:05 pm

Title: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Benallo on February 25, 2019, 11:43:05 pm
Hi everyone,

To those who don't know me, I'm Fotin, I'm playing this game since the summer of 2014. I consider myself as a "competitive player" since the end of 2015, when I joined FrenchTouch.

Today I'm making this topic to share my disappointment about the current NW community. Since 2019 started, I feel like NW is less competitive, people aren't taking the competitions as seriously as in the last year. Also, there is a lack of number of players taking part in the tournaments. I got simple examples to show it : we're having a fucking nice Duel League and like only 10% of the players that signed up are taking it seriously. Tonight there was a 8v8 tournament : 10 teams only took part in it. I'm hosting the 3rd melee depletion tournament and there is not even 64 players (which is the minimum) to play the tournament.

John Price (or Chriseh) is hosting a new EIC tournament, I really encourage this type of competitions but... I am scared to not have enough people to play it.
I know we're playing on an old game now, and that probably is one of the reasons that explains why the competition is dying, but to me it's not the only reason.

We have an unreliable community. I'm so sad to see that some organizers of leagues spend so many time in this game for nothing. MarxeiL is organizing the TDL (Tiered Duel League), I am one of the moderators in it, and I receive too many messages of the signed up players on Steam saying that this league is useless or shit. Can you please explain me why you signed up if you think that this league is shit ? No. No one can explain it.
Then my theory is symply that people engage themselves in taking part into the competition but they often don't do it, that is why I call our community an unreliable community.


These are the two reasons why, for me, NW competition in 2019 is dead : The game becomes too old and you can't count on the community. And trust me that I'm sad to see this, I hope that Bannerlord will come soon.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on February 25, 2019, 11:54:45 pm
In general 1v1 tournaments are more accessible to all tiers of regiments compared to Groupfights. At least with a 1v1 tourney there is a chance for more than just a few regiments.

Using my own experience as an example, I never signed 18e up for RGL etc. most seasons because frankly we were terrible at groupfighting. As a regiment we were always more leant towards the casual side, but leagues like NWL were more competitive as they don't require as much commitment to Practice and Training. At least for a regiment that isn't already the best at groupfighting I guess.

With regards to smaller GF tournaments, RGT we were able to fill all slots like we usually do, but I think GF teams are just fading while people lose interest which is a shame but they aren't exactly exciting and full of variety.

EIC we are hopeful that we will fill all the slots. There has been some interest so we will at least be able to get 2 groups of 6 which I think is still respectable for how small the top tier competitive scene is at the moment.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: MightyPaiN on February 25, 2019, 11:56:26 pm
Aye i agree with you Fotin
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Sir Obelix on February 26, 2019, 10:35:35 am
everyone left NW for Apex Legend, no joke
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on February 26, 2019, 10:41:51 am
tl;dr goodbye fucking loser
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on February 26, 2019, 11:26:46 am
Janne as tactful as ever.  8)
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Aztir on February 26, 2019, 11:35:55 am
there is still a casual side of NW  :-*
the competetive part is dead. RIP
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Gi on February 26, 2019, 12:10:59 pm
I mean there's still a large competitive community, but the problem for too long now has been the constant spam of tournaments and competitions, people are eventually going to get bored of signing up to get shit on every week.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on February 26, 2019, 12:16:01 pm
I said that a few years ago, the moment you start doing 4-5 tournaments in a month people really aren't going to take them all seriously anymore. You used to have one gf tournament a month, sometimes two or sometimes none even so each tournament was treated much more seriously.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Gi on February 26, 2019, 12:19:36 pm
I said that a few years ago, the moment you start doing 4-5 tournaments in a month people really aren't going to take them all seriously anymore. You used to have one gf tournament a month, sometimes two or sometimes none even so each tournament was treated much more seriously.
Yup I've said it a few times that some sort of group of organisers/team leaders needs to be made to have some form of organisation to the scene and keep it fresh, but it would appear people prefer to win shitty spam tournies.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on February 26, 2019, 12:21:00 pm
I said that a few years ago, the moment you start doing 4-5 tournaments in a month people really aren't going to take them all seriously anymore. You used to have one gf tournament a month, sometimes two or sometimes none even so each tournament was treated much more seriously.
Yup I've said it a few times that some sort of group of organisers/team leaders needs to be made to have some form of organisation to the scene and keep it fresh, but it would appear people prefer to win shitty spam tournies.
Cazasar mentioned this idea to me a good few months back but nothing ever came of it. I think it's a good idea but I believe certain hosts wouldn't adhere to the rule-set of the group anyway and would still just do things alone.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Nero_ on February 26, 2019, 12:23:07 pm
Meanwhile mightypain announces another 5v5 zzzzzzzz

Cazasar mentioned this idea to me a good few months back but nothing ever came of it.
surprised ngl
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Gi on February 26, 2019, 12:24:12 pm
I said that a few years ago, the moment you start doing 4-5 tournaments in a month people really aren't going to take them all seriously anymore. You used to have one gf tournament a month, sometimes two or sometimes none even so each tournament was treated much more seriously.
Yup I've said it a few times that some sort of group of organisers/team leaders needs to be made to have some form of organisation to the scene and keep it fresh, but it would appear people prefer to win shitty spam tournies.
Cazasar mentioned this idea to me a good few months back but nothing ever came of it. I think it's a good idea but I believe certain hosts wouldn't adhere to the rule-set of the group anyway and would still just do things alone.
In situations like that the idea would be to all boycott that tourney as a group
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Sir Obelix on February 26, 2019, 12:47:24 pm
i think the game is dying bcs of toxic people like me but im not sure  :-\
so now i won't be toxic anymore i swear! for the sake of the community, i now become a good b0y!
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Benallo on February 26, 2019, 12:48:24 pm
Yeah you guys are probably right, maybe there are too many tournaments so people don't take it seriously.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on February 26, 2019, 12:49:10 pm
I said that a few years ago, the moment you start doing 4-5 tournaments in a month people really aren't going to take them all seriously anymore. You used to have one gf tournament a month, sometimes two or sometimes none even so each tournament was treated much more seriously.
Yup I've said it a few times that some sort of group of organisers/team leaders needs to be made to have some form of organisation to the scene and keep it fresh, but it would appear people prefer to win shitty spam tournies.
Cazasar mentioned this idea to me a good few months back but nothing ever came of it. I think it's a good idea but I believe certain hosts wouldn't adhere to the rule-set of the group anyway and would still just do things alone.
In situations like that the idea would be to all boycott that tourney as a group
Then you'd also need to get team captains on side, which depending who was part of said 'group' I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard to get most large teams to do so.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on February 26, 2019, 02:44:05 pm
Actually I forgot about that. Before I stopped NW as a player myself and Gi were constantly complaining about the frequency of tournaments.

Yet again its only 2 people doing it.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: ExtaZz94 on February 26, 2019, 03:03:04 pm
As people said you have less and less players still playing the game but much more tournaments organised.
I think the  league format  , except maybe for regiments is not longer appropriate when you  see the activity of people in the game.
For example for the 1v1 league tournament , the tournament would have been  much played if he was a simply  1v1 tournament.
Because the 1V1 tournament is the format which is the most rare organised.
NW is a game which  we all enjoy but he didn't escape to the law of demand and supply ,
but we have to be recognizing to the people who make live this community through the work supplied on their tournaments.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: DragonKing on February 26, 2019, 04:25:15 pm
Hello, as you said infantry is making too many tournaments. It can be the problem. In the cavalry community, we are (i think) 200/ 300 active players. We are not many. That's the reason why we are making one or two big tournaments in the years ( CavalryNapoleonicWarLeagye/CavalryChampionLeague or CavalryNationCup).in these competitions, all members of the cav communities are together to play epic and intense match. One more time, it's the reason why we can't ignore a big regiment. Today, all leaders must speak together to make a good competition and teams are not really existing.
I would like say that the infantry communitie is familiar with a big and fat community. Today, you should probably think that you are not too many and organise tournaments together. But that's just my opignion and i am not in the infantry community;)

So have a nice day all. I think that the infantry community is interesting and absolutly not dead

Bonne chance Fotin pour la suite !
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: PhilosophicalPhilosopher on February 26, 2019, 07:33:17 pm
maybe its memes like marxeil or mightypain hosting tournaments idk.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Nosswill on February 26, 2019, 07:46:53 pm
I said that a few years ago, the moment you start doing 4-5 tournaments in a month people really aren't going to take them all seriously anymore. You used to have one gf tournament a month, sometimes two or sometimes none even so each tournament was treated much more seriously.
It was a huge deal winning the 5v5 tournament hosted by Hekko, watching old videos you could even hear the winning teams excitement and everyone went nuts. The competition was higher and we had more teams on the same level. Today you have a very high rate of events hosted by either MightyPain or Marxeil and always the same three teams winning them. It just doesn't feel the same as it used to be. Would really appreciate it if hosters could just turn down a bit with hosting tournaments and get together in order to try to make one or two per month with the same quality as Hekkos tournaments had.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: ~Midnight~ on February 26, 2019, 09:02:26 pm
I mean, I kind of view it as a double edged sword. On one hand you don't want to spam the community with competitive events or everyone involved in the competitive scene will most likely become bored and not take it as seriously. On the other hand, you have those 95% competitive oriented regiments who will just grow bored regardless because there wouldn't be multiple competitive things to do. Even if the latter isn't the bigger issue, it still is a concern to some extent. I do agree with the former and that there shouldn't be such an influx of competitive events and NA needs to chill with all the tournaments every 5 seconds in my opinion.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on February 26, 2019, 09:11:03 pm
People have been saying that NW is dead for at least 3 years now and every time there is always some revival with new players and new competitions. I will admit though it's obvious the player count has slowly and steadily declined to the point where even big events are averaging low player counts. It's such a shame as well because I believe the skill ceiling is very high now.  But a lot of the players still playing the game at least on the competitive infantry side are in a tight little bubble and its about 15-30 players just fighting over and over again to see who is best. If NW had retained it's player count since 2012-2014 era I could imagine the competitive side would be insane but never mind. It will however eventually die out and I think Bannerlord will be the final blow.

EDIT: Mighypains tournaments are also kind of annoying now especially that one hosted on Monday was just a joke.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: ~NickCole~ on February 27, 2019, 12:31:12 am
I mean, I kind of view it as a double edged sword. On one hand you don't want to spam the community with competitive events or everyone involved in the competitive scene will most likely become bored and not take it as seriously. On the other hand, you have those 95% competitive oriented regiments who will just grow bored regardless because there wouldn't be multiple competitive things to do. Even if the latter isn't the bigger issue, it still is a concern to some extent. I do agree with the former and that there shouldn't be such an influx of competitive events and NA needs to chill with all the tournaments every 5 seconds in my opinion.
NA doesn't do that many tournaments anymore. We had 15 last year and 1 this year (I don't count North vs South as a real tournament) which was Jolly's Duel tournament for the lower skilled guys (Yoloswag won it under a different name so not really). I agree EUs do wayyyyyyy to many tournaments. I think their was like 30-50 melee tournaments hosted last year and that is without melee leagues & regimental leagues.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: ~Midnight~ on February 27, 2019, 12:34:36 am
I mean, I kind of view it as a double edged sword. On one hand you don't want to spam the community with competitive events or everyone involved in the competitive scene will most likely become bored and not take it as seriously. On the other hand, you have those 95% competitive oriented regiments who will just grow bored regardless because there wouldn't be multiple competitive things to do. Even if the latter isn't the bigger issue, it still is a concern to some extent. I do agree with the former and that there shouldn't be such an influx of competitive events and NA needs to chill with all the tournaments every 5 seconds in my opinion.
NA doesn't do that many tournaments anymore. We had 15 last year and 1 this year (I don't count North vs South as a real tournament) which was Jolly's Duel tournament for the lower skilled guys (Yoloswag won it under a different name so not really). I agree EUs do wayyyyyyy to many tournaments. I think their was like 30-50 melee tournaments hosted last year and that is without melee leagues & regimental leagues.

I count everything posted in the competitive events board as a competitive event. I'm not being inclusive to just tournaments or leagues but everything competitive. With that being said, yes, I do believe NA hosts quite a lot of competitive events which to me has certainly killed the appeal of them. I realize I said tournaments for NA, but I really meant competitive events in general bar individuals 1v1s or GFs.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on February 27, 2019, 12:51:40 am
I've spoken to some hosts today and it looks like we're going to try and make a proper organisers group involving team captains as well to try to better the tournament spam.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: ~NickCole~ on February 27, 2019, 01:10:59 am
I mean, I kind of view it as a double edged sword. On one hand you don't want to spam the community with competitive events or everyone involved in the competitive scene will most likely become bored and not take it as seriously. On the other hand, you have those 95% competitive oriented regiments who will just grow bored regardless because there wouldn't be multiple competitive things to do. Even if the latter isn't the bigger issue, it still is a concern to some extent. I do agree with the former and that there shouldn't be such an influx of competitive events and NA needs to chill with all the tournaments every 5 seconds in my opinion.
NA doesn't do that many tournaments anymore. We had 15 last year and 1 this year (I don't count North vs South as a real tournament) which was Jolly's Duel tournament for the lower skilled guys (Yoloswag won it under a different name so not really). I agree EUs do wayyyyyyy to many tournaments. I think their was like 30-50 melee tournaments hosted last year and that is without melee leagues & regimental leagues.

I count everything posted in the competitive events board as a competitive event. I'm not being inclusive to just tournaments or leagues but everything competitive. With that being said, yes, I do believe NA hosts quite a lot of competitive events which to me has certainly killed the appeal of them. I realize I said tournaments for NA, but I really meant competitive events in general bar individuals 1v1s or GFs.
So stuff like Tagpro or UFC counts as a competitive event? There has been a page and a half about "competitive events" from 2018 and some of them are stupid shit like what I said. 15 tournaments (including the melee leagues in this count) in a year isn't that many.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Steinmann on February 27, 2019, 01:12:34 am
m tournaments
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on February 27, 2019, 06:44:45 am
waah there are too many tournaments waah im getting bored 🤣👌
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: PapaBean on February 27, 2019, 06:46:00 am
I mean, I kind of view it as a double edged sword. On one hand you don't want to spam the community with competitive events or everyone involved in the competitive scene will most likely become bored and not take it as seriously. On the other hand, you have those 95% competitive oriented regiments who will just grow bored regardless because there wouldn't be multiple competitive things to do. Even if the latter isn't the bigger issue, it still is a concern to some extent. I do agree with the former and that there shouldn't be such an influx of competitive events and NA needs to chill with all the tournaments every 5 seconds in my opinion.
NA doesn't do that many tournaments anymore. We had 15 last year and 1 this year (I don't count North vs South as a real tournament) which was Jolly's Duel tournament for the lower skilled guys (Yoloswag won it under a different name so not really). I agree EUs do wayyyyyyy to many tournaments. I think their was like 30-50 melee tournaments hosted last year and that is without melee leagues & regimental leagues.

I count everything posted in the competitive events board as a competitive event. I'm not being inclusive to just tournaments or leagues but everything competitive. With that being said, yes, I do believe NA hosts quite a lot of competitive events which to me has certainly killed the appeal of them. I realize I said tournaments for NA, but I really meant competitive events in general bar individuals 1v1s or GFs.
So stuff like Tagpro or UFC counts as a competitive event? There has been a page and a half about "competitive events" from 2018 and some of them are stupid shit like what I said. 15 tournaments (including the melee leagues in this count) in a year isn't that many.

The number of competitive events for NA has NOT killed the competitive scene.  What has killed it is the following:

1.  The Compacting Factor-  This is when all the regiments like the 18th. 5th, 58e, 71st,  3evolt, 54th, Ody regs, and any good regiments between 2014-2016/17 started to disband and members would join from one group to another.  When you put all the really good players into like 2-4 regiments....well you dont have a very competitive community. 

2.  The Constant Loosing Factor- Try as they might, some regiments just wont be good enough to beat the better regiments, many of these regiments get discouraged from doing 1v1s and groupfights because they either fear loosing members or the members dont want anything to do with the competitive stuff cause they loose all the time.  Examples being 27th with Newkirk, 87th with Potus, I could go on but you guys see the point.   

3.  The Small Stuff- Yes the small shit does add up.  If you really look at some of the issues with the major leagues and tourneys you notice alot of bullshit.  Like people who shouldnt be in charge of stuff and the actually qualified people are overlooked.  Thats just one issue.  So many of these type of issues plague the NA side that it makes it hard to have fun. 

So do the amount of tourneys kill the NA side? No they do not.  I think you need to look at the big picture because these are the main reasons to what is going on in the NA side.  (aint it funny how the opposite is happening in EU.  I mean think about it....people get tired of winning and they disband regiments cough cough 17e  cough cough pieter.)
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Wastee on February 27, 2019, 09:40:10 am
Holy fuck it's spelt lose not loose bean you're killing me
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: David_Schrein on February 27, 2019, 10:32:39 am
People have been saying that NW is dead for at least 3 years now and every time there is always some revival with new players and new competitions. I will admit though it's obvious the player count has slowly and steadily declined to the point where even big events are averaging low player counts. It's such a shame as well because I believe the skill ceiling is very high now.  But a lot of the players still playing the game at least on the competitive infantry side are in a tight little bubble and its about 15-30 players just fighting over and over again to see who is best. If NW had retained it's player count since 2012-2014 era I could imagine the competitive side would be insane but never mind. It will however eventually die out and I think Bannerlord will be the final blow.

EDIT: Mighypains tournaments are also kind of annoying now especially that one hosted on Monday was just a joke.
I agree with golden here, Because only 10 teams signed up for mightypains tourn doesn't make the whole community dead. If Marxeil hosted the same tourn im sure 16 teams with 2-3 reserves wouldve signed up. Ofcourse we are stuck at the point of fighting the same 50-60 people but some newgens pop up from time to time and I personally think if there was a better host or more exciting tournament format, more people or teams would sign up. E.g fotin postponed his old 2v2 tourn and has been swapping the date for his depletion tourn aswell. Mightypain did the same now and didnt get much signups either. With a M. Tournament i dont see these problems. Maybe its just me.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Benallo on February 27, 2019, 10:49:16 am
People have been saying that NW is dead for at least 3 years now and every time there is always some revival with new players and new competitions. I will admit though it's obvious the player count has slowly and steadily declined to the point where even big events are averaging low player counts. It's such a shame as well because I believe the skill ceiling is very high now.  But a lot of the players still playing the game at least on the competitive infantry side are in a tight little bubble and its about 15-30 players just fighting over and over again to see who is best. If NW had retained it's player count since 2012-2014 era I could imagine the competitive side would be insane but never mind. It will however eventually die out and I think Bannerlord will be the final blow.

EDIT: Mighypains tournaments are also kind of annoying now especially that one hosted on Monday was just a joke.
I agree with golden here, Because only 10 teams signed up for mightypains tourn doesn't make the whole community dead. If Marxeil hosted the same tourn im sure 16 teams with 2-3 reserves wouldve signed up. Ofcourse we are stuck at the point of fighting the same 50-60 people but some newgens pop up from time to time and I personally think if there was a better host or more exciting tournament format, more people or teams would sign up. E.g fotin postponed his old 2v2 tourn and has been swapping the date for his depletion tourn aswell. Mightypain did the same now and didnt get much signups either. With a M. Tournament i dont see these problems. Maybe its just me.
The reason why I changed the date of the Melee depletion Tournament is because we didn't have enough players to make it. I don't think that you guys would enjoy a 16v16 in the first round, am I wrong ?

Now we'll keep discussing about the creation of an "Hosting team". A big part of the tournaments hosters and of the team captains agree with this concept.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: MightyPaiN on February 27, 2019, 12:50:37 pm
People have been saying that NW is dead for at least 3 years now and every time there is always some revival with new players and new competitions. I will admit though it's obvious the player count has slowly and steadily declined to the point where even big events are averaging low player counts. It's such a shame as well because I believe the skill ceiling is very high now.  But a lot of the players still playing the game at least on the competitive infantry side are in a tight little bubble and its about 15-30 players just fighting over and over again to see who is best. If NW had retained it's player count since 2012-2014 era I could imagine the competitive side would be insane but never mind. It will however eventually die out and I think Bannerlord will be the final blow.

EDIT: Mighypains tournaments are also kind of annoying now especially that one hosted on Monday was just a joke.
I agree with golden here, Because only 10 teams signed up for mightypains tourn doesn't make the whole community dead. If Marxeil hosted the same tourn im sure 16 teams with 2-3 reserves wouldve signed up. Ofcourse we are stuck at the point of fighting the same 50-60 people but some newgens pop up from time to time and I personally think if there was a better host or more exciting tournament format, more people or teams would sign up. E.g fotin postponed his old 2v2 tourn and has been swapping the date for his depletion tourn aswell. Mightypain did the same now and didnt get much signups either. With a M. Tournament i dont see these problems. Maybe its just me.
lol are u retarded or what youre saying that 16 teams would sign up in a 7v7 tournament tell me which teams i see always same teams in every tournament
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on February 27, 2019, 01:20:08 pm
The most an M. Tournament has ever had was 13 teams. But Marxeil usually caps to around 7-10. Besides it makes sense why other teams don't want to sign up. There is realistically like 3 teams that can win the tournament and the rest are there to play a ft5 lose 0-5 and go home lol. I wouldn't sign up to that shit. All-Stars, FrenchTouch, Poosy, Chimpz. Killed the game due to just having ridiculously stacked teams, I tried to counter that with teams like TBE and bullyland with little success but whatever. Some argument can be made that having a team with just the top 10 best players in it is retarded and boring and ruined the competitive side to some degree.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on February 27, 2019, 01:24:00 pm
lol complain about stacked teams but still play in them  :P
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Nero_ on February 27, 2019, 01:24:46 pm
 :P
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Gi on February 27, 2019, 01:27:49 pm
The most an M. Tournament has ever had was 13 teams. But Marxeil usually caps to around 7-10. Besides it makes sense why other teams don't want to sign up. There is realistically like 3 teams that can win the tournament and the rest are there to play a ft5 lose 0-5 and go home lol. I wouldn't sign up to that shit. All-Stars, FrenchTouch, Poosy, Chimpz. Killed the game due to just having ridiculously stacked teams, I tried to counter that with teams like TBE and bullyland with little success but whatever. Some argument can be made that having a team with just the top 10 best players in it is retarded and boring and ruined the competitive side to some degree.
I'd argue also that back in the day teams generally didn't switch players as much, currently the team's now switch players in and out without a second thought because they only care about winning (which is devalued in itself) whereas before you'd have a solid line up of people whom not only want to win but retain their title/do better then last tournament or simply see how much they had progressed since the last tournament.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on February 27, 2019, 01:31:01 pm
lol complain about stacked teams but still play in them  :P
idk only got 3rd place last tourny m8

edit: and had to win a 6v7 vs capitalists
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on February 27, 2019, 01:32:11 pm
lol complain about stacked teams but still play in them  :P
idk only got 3rd place last tourny m8

ah nevermind chimpz bully tbe never were stacked teams ur right u play in medium tier teams lolo jtpojewggrdewsnlobhi k.,ee
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: MightyPaiN on February 27, 2019, 01:37:12 pm
The most an M. Tournament has ever had was 13 teams. But Marxeil usually caps to around 7-10. Besides it makes sense why other teams don't want to sign up. There is realistically like 3 teams that can win the tournament and the rest are there to play a ft5 lose 0-5 and go home lol. I wouldn't sign up to that shit. All-Stars, FrenchTouch, Poosy, Chimpz. Killed the game due to just having ridiculously stacked teams, I tried to counter that with teams like TBE and bullyland with little success but whatever. Some argument can be made that having a team with just the top 10 best players in it is retarded and boring and ruined the competitive side to some degree.
i agree with you mate
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on February 27, 2019, 01:44:09 pm
@janne

Clearly you were not around for the beginning of TBE it was literally trash and we managed to beat chimpz. It's pretty hard to leave a stacked team like Chimpz and then win anything or do anything by yourself in a weaker team. And no other good players were doing the same they were all sitting in stacked teams still. But I did manage to beat a heavily stacked chimpz team with this team lol
Golden, Rydhs, Herishey, Kore, Moskito, 2oothbrush, Zappy, Rebellious. Beating both team France and ChimpZ heavily stacked teams. Bullyland was also not stacked really at all, it was similar level to snappers or jedis IMO but with very good leadership from Cr3a. TBE only got stacked after we won two 8v8 tournaments and ChimpZ formed the most OP lineup so the only solution was to invite frenchies such as extazz and lebrave and we still lost.

But yeah im sorry for not joining kamikaze or something and losing like  0-5 every tourny. Which I literally did for years before I played in terrible teams losing every tourny until I got good enough to be part of a decent team. And I did try to make the scene more competitive but to no success.

Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Snowwi on February 27, 2019, 01:47:53 pm
This game won't die unless Bannerlord eventually comes out
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: ExtaZz94 on February 27, 2019, 01:49:21 pm
The most an M. Tournament has ever had was 13 teams. But Marxeil usually caps to around 7-10. Besides it makes sense why other teams don't want to sign up. There is realistically like 3 teams that can win the tournament and the rest are there to play a ft5 lose 0-5 and go home lol. I wouldn't sign up to that shit. All-Stars, FrenchTouch, Poosy, Chimpz. Killed the game due to just having ridiculously stacked teams, I tried to counter that with teams like TBE and bullyland with little success but whatever. Some argument can be made that having a team with just the top 10 best players in it is retarded and boring and ruined the competitive side to some degree.
FrenchTouch was never a stacked team , we never recruit the best players of the game for play our tournaments.We didn't killed the game, on the contrary  we gave him a second life.
On 2015 when people saying nw is already a dead game , french players with frenchtouch  permit to  stimulate nw scene  by beating what was considered of the best players in the game.
We create more challenge on gf scene and this why the tournaments was very competitive.
Again , you said you tried to counter "stacked team" but you did nothing , you just do the reverse by joining poosy in the  5v5 m league and  in the same time of being TBE captain.
Poosy roster at this time : Python Hypno Voluble Bagins Herishey Tiberias Troister Golden Stark Dren
And create bully team which was a stacked team , you never try to make progress players.

So pls , be on adequation with your behavior on the game , it will avoid reading in your messages the opposite of what you really doing.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on February 27, 2019, 01:58:59 pm
The most an M. Tournament has ever had was 13 teams. But Marxeil usually caps to around 7-10. Besides it makes sense why other teams don't want to sign up. There is realistically like 3 teams that can win the tournament and the rest are there to play a ft5 lose 0-5 and go home lol. I wouldn't sign up to that shit. All-Stars, FrenchTouch, Poosy, Chimpz. Killed the game due to just having ridiculously stacked teams, I tried to counter that with teams like TBE and bullyland with little success but whatever. Some argument can be made that having a team with just the top 10 best players in it is retarded and boring and ruined the competitive side to some degree.
FrenchTouch was never a stacked team , we never recruit the best players of the game for play our tournaments.We didn't killed the game, on the contrary  we gave him a second life.
On 2015 when people saying nw is already a dead game , french players with frenchtouch  permit to  stimulate nw scene  by beating what was considered of the best players in the game.
We create more challenge on gf scene and this why the tournaments was very competitive.
Again , you said you tried to counter "stacked team" but you did nothing , you just do the reverse by joining poosy in the  5v5 m league and  in the same time of being TBE captain.
Poosy roster at this time : Python Hypno Voluble Bagins Herishey Tiberias Troister Golden Stark Dren
And create bully team which was a stacked team , you never try to make progress players.

So pls , be on adequation with your behavior on the game , it will avoid reading in your messages the opposite of what you really doing.


So are you really just going to ignore All-stars ?

and this team -  LeBrave, Cr3a, Maharbaal, ExtaZz94, Tiberias, Troister, Owindd, Bessieres, Drake
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on February 27, 2019, 01:59:49 pm
do you really think im going to read all that  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on February 27, 2019, 02:00:45 pm
do you really think im going to read all that  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sorry lol  ;D

TLDR: you're wrong
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fralla8 on February 27, 2019, 02:04:18 pm
Some argument can be made that having a team with just the top 10 best players in it is retarded and boring and ruined the competitive side to some degree.
This is why I really liked the fantasy team league tourney thingy where teams got a budget to buy players that varied in price depending on skill
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on February 27, 2019, 02:06:02 pm
do you really think im going to read all that  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sorry lol  ;D

TLDR: you're wrong

how can i be wrong when ur past teams have all been top tier teams ???
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on February 27, 2019, 02:06:37 pm
Some argument can be made that having a team with just the top 10 best players in it is retarded and boring and ruined the competitive side to some degree.
This is why I really liked the fantasy team league tourney thingy where teams got a budget to buy players that varied in price depending on skill

Yes that was good apart from the pricing was stupid and the auction went wrong and half of the captains gave up on their teams and the players just got kicked out the league. But it was a brilliant idea imo


do you really think im going to read all that  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sorry lol  ;D

TLDR: you're wrong

how can i be wrong when ur past teams have all been top tier teams ???

Yeah I explained that in the paragraph  ???
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fralla8 on February 27, 2019, 02:07:14 pm
Some argument can be made that having a team with just the top 10 best players in it is retarded and boring and ruined the competitive side to some degree.
This is why I really liked the fantasy team league tourney thingy where teams got a budget to buy players that varied in price depending on skill

Yes that was good apart from the pricing was stupid and the auction went wrong and half of the captains gave up on their teams and the players just got kicked out the league. But it was a brilliant idea imo
Yeah exactly ;D
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on February 27, 2019, 02:08:26 pm
i think i've proven my point so thats another internet debate won
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: ExtaZz94 on February 27, 2019, 02:19:59 pm
The most an M. Tournament has ever had was 13 teams. But Marxeil usually caps to around 7-10. Besides it makes sense why other teams don't want to sign up. There is realistically like 3 teams that can win the tournament and the rest are there to play a ft5 lose 0-5 and go home lol. I wouldn't sign up to that shit. All-Stars, FrenchTouch, Poosy, Chimpz. Killed the game due to just having ridiculously stacked teams, I tried to counter that with teams like TBE and bullyland with little success but whatever. Some argument can be made that having a team with just the top 10 best players in it is retarded and boring and ruined the competitive side to some degree.
FrenchTouch was never a stacked team , we never recruit the best players of the game for play our tournaments.We didn't killed the game, on the contrary  we gave him a second life.
On 2015 when people saying nw is already a dead game , french players with frenchtouch  permit to  stimulate nw scene  by beating what was considered of the best players in the game.
We create more challenge on gf scene and this why the tournaments was very competitive.
Again , you said you tried to counter "stacked team" but you did nothing , you just do the reverse by joining poosy in the  5v5 m league and  in the same time of being TBE captain.
Poosy roster at this time : Python Hypno Voluble Bagins Herishey Tiberias Troister Golden Stark Dren
And create bully team which was a stacked team , you never try to make progress players.

So pls , be on adequation with your behavior on the game , it will avoid reading in your messages the opposite of what you really doing.


So are you really just going to ignore All-stars ?

and this team -  LeBrave, Cr3a, Maharbaal, ExtaZz94, Tiberias, Troister, Owindd, Bessieres, Drake
All-stars was only for 7v7 or+ format because Frenchtouch "the stacked team" didn't have the players for play there tournaments formats.

"and this team -  LeBrave, Cr3a, Maharbaal, ExtaZz94, Tiberias, Troister, Owindd, Bessieres, Drake"

Pls dude , all the players that you put in the team never play in the same time.
Tib playing only 1 tournaments with us ,  troister  play few tournaments with us  , same for owind , same for crea and  bessieres never play with us.

Our real team was : Lebrave Drake , peponi , vade ,  extazz , kennedy ,fotin , maharbaal and fwuff you can maybe add muha who play with us but not in  very long time.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: SilverBolt on February 27, 2019, 02:29:34 pm
Dunno havent seen the effort of existing teams lately to even take in lesser known/skilled players lately to kind of build them up to modern standards. The only teams ive noticed since ive made my own effort of getting active in the scene (since abt November 2018) were Kamikaze, TBE and NotSwedish almost any other Team seemed to only play with their Homeboys and Toptierplayers exclusively. I havent got this perspective of the Tournament spam but the of the "occasional new-Gen player" as stated before so yeh

Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on February 27, 2019, 02:40:01 pm
Dunno havent seen the effort of existing teams lately to even take in lesser known/skilled players lately to kind of build them up to modern standards. The only teams ive noticed since ive made my own effort of getting active in the scene (since abt November 2018) were Kamikaze, TBE and NotSwedish almost any other Team seemed to only play with their Homeboys and Toptierplayers exclusively. I havent got this perspective of the Tournament spam but the of the "occasional new-Gen player" as stated before so yeh
big egos can't handle losing so playing with bad players is unacceptable
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fwuffy on February 27, 2019, 02:45:16 pm
Dunno havent seen the effort of existing teams lately to even take in lesser known/skilled players lately to kind of build them up to modern standards. The only teams ive noticed since ive made my own effort of getting active in the scene (since abt November 2018) were Kamikaze, TBE and NotSwedish almost any other Team seemed to only play with their Homeboys and Toptierplayers exclusively. I havent got this perspective of the Tournament spam but the of the "occasional new-Gen player" as stated before so yeh
big egos can't handle losing so playing with bad players is unacceptable
what if the big ego players are bad ::)
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Anubis. on February 27, 2019, 02:46:43 pm
Dunno havent seen the effort of existing teams lately to even take in lesser known/skilled players lately to kind of build them up to modern standards. The only teams ive noticed since ive made my own effort of getting active in the scene (since abt November 2018) were Kamikaze, TBE and NotSwedish almost any other Team seemed to only play with their Homeboys and Toptierplayers exclusively. I havent got this perspective of the Tournament spam but the of the "occasional new-Gen player" as stated before so yeh
Most teams have some newgens as far as i can see, the only team with only old players is chimpz atm i think. Cazadores tournement team has lost almost 50% of its members due to inactivity/ people who left nw over the last month. It has to gather new players and there are not many left to get. We can go after the good new players in teams like Kamikaze but that will only weaken Kamikaze more. getting completely new players to the gf scene will create to much of a skill gap in the team itself I think. So I wouldnt know where to get new players
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on February 27, 2019, 02:53:48 pm
Dunno havent seen the effort of existing teams lately to even take in lesser known/skilled players lately to kind of build them up to modern standards. The only teams ive noticed since ive made my own effort of getting active in the scene (since abt November 2018) were Kamikaze, TBE and NotSwedish almost any other Team seemed to only play with their Homeboys and Toptierplayers exclusively. I havent got this perspective of the Tournament spam but the of the "occasional new-Gen player" as stated before so yeh
big egos can't handle losing so playing with bad players is unacceptable
what if the big ego players are bad ::)
deep
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on February 27, 2019, 02:55:51 pm
The most an M. Tournament has ever had was 13 teams. But Marxeil usually caps to around 7-10. Besides it makes sense why other teams don't want to sign up. There is realistically like 3 teams that can win the tournament and the rest are there to play a ft5 lose 0-5 and go home lol. I wouldn't sign up to that shit. All-Stars, FrenchTouch, Poosy, Chimpz. Killed the game due to just having ridiculously stacked teams, I tried to counter that with teams like TBE and bullyland with little success but whatever. Some argument can be made that having a team with just the top 10 best players in it is retarded and boring and ruined the competitive side to some degree.
FrenchTouch was never a stacked team , we never recruit the best players of the game for play our tournaments.We didn't killed the game, on the contrary  we gave him a second life.
On 2015 when people saying nw is already a dead game , french players with frenchtouch  permit to  stimulate nw scene  by beating what was considered of the best players in the game.
We create more challenge on gf scene and this why the tournaments was very competitive.
Again , you said you tried to counter "stacked team" but you did nothing , you just do the reverse by joining poosy in the  5v5 m league and  in the same time of being TBE captain.
Poosy roster at this time : Python Hypno Voluble Bagins Herishey Tiberias Troister Golden Stark Dren
And create bully team which was a stacked team , you never try to make progress players.

So pls , be on adequation with your behavior on the game , it will avoid reading in your messages the opposite of what you really doing.


So are you really just going to ignore All-stars ?

and this team -  LeBrave, Cr3a, Maharbaal, ExtaZz94, Tiberias, Troister, Owindd, Bessieres, Drake
All-stars was only for 7v7 or+ format because Frenchtouch "the stacked team" didn't have the players for play there tournaments formats.

"and this team -  LeBrave, Cr3a, Maharbaal, ExtaZz94, Tiberias, Troister, Owindd, Bessieres, Drake"

Pls dude , all the players that you put in the team never play in the same time.
Tib playing only 1 tournaments with us ,  troister  play few tournaments with us  , same for owind , same for crea and  bessieres never play with us.

Our real team was : Lebrave Drake , peponi , vade ,  extazz , kennedy ,fotin , maharbaal and fwuff you can maybe add muha who play with us but not in  very long time.

Okay so All-Stars was only 7v7 + lol. It was stacked to shit and most boring team ever created. FT literally never played with vade, peponi, kennedy or fotin 2017 onwards. It was only Lebrave, Maharbaal, Fwuffy, Extazz, Drake, Muha and that was what was stacked.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fwuffy on February 27, 2019, 03:37:24 pm
How is a team stacked when it becomes good with the same core of players?
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Nosswill on February 27, 2019, 03:56:50 pm
How is a team stacked when it becomes good with the same core of players?
It's hard to admit but you frenchies are right I guess. After all the good players left and the frenchies started to tryhard, they became best without adding some extra super pro player to their lineup.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Benallo on February 27, 2019, 04:46:14 pm
You're going too far guys It's not the main subject of that thread.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Bagins on February 27, 2019, 05:03:46 pm
The skill level has both increased overall yet decreased at the top recently, not to mention the meta that most of the new gens have employed to compete with the older more experienced players has caused some controversy with whole teams being labeled as cancer to play (not just individual players) and so on.

The reason only 10% of players take duel tourneys seriously is because EU dueling has become a joke and there are only some willing to bear it to get their 5 minutes of fame.
 
Frenchtouch's "era" was around when there was a lul in competition as teams like PowerRangers and TFFO were fazing out, yet I can still agree that it was one of the best teams of all time.
Players like Extazz and Drake have never been in an underdog team that hasn't included the same group of FT lads so Extazz u cant really chat to Golden about that.
Edit: Credit where its Due FT made themselves from nothing but its players haven't been successful anywhere else.

Golden the only time u haven't been in a top team in the recent competitive scene is when you first joined TBE.

Having stacked teams like Poosy and All-stars doesn't make it fun for everyone else which is why it probably made the scene more fun after the teams disbanded and their skilled players dissipated into separate teams.

Yes there are too many tourneys.

No it probably won't change peoples attitudes if they are hosted less as most of the main people left have made up their mind on how they feel about playing.


 
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Eamon on February 27, 2019, 05:11:16 pm
Fotin once said I'd be unstoppable if I was any good at tryharding

Spoiler
Looking for a gf team btw
[close]
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Matt_ on February 27, 2019, 05:17:02 pm
But yeah im sorry for not joining kamikaze or something and losing like 0-5 every tourny.

seems about right
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Eamon on February 27, 2019, 05:18:32 pm
But yeah im sorry for not joining kamikaze or something and losing like 0-5 every tourny.

seems about right

I'm going to join Kamikaze, adopt a French accent, have no friends, and put timing notes on the side of my monitor, KamiTouch incoming !
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Wastee on February 27, 2019, 05:42:18 pm
Draft leagues can be pretty neat
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Voluble123 on February 27, 2019, 06:01:49 pm
I would say 2 main things:
1) The average age of competitive players has increased overtime as not enough new people getting that interested in the game to take up competitive and therefore meaning when people get to that stage in their life when they dont have as much free time, you want to spend it more wisely and after many years of the same shit, maybe some people have just given up for one reason or another and over the past year or so this has dug away at the core of people in the community that probably kept it running from regimental leaders like Salakien; Pieter and Pride to GF leaders like Drake and other fuck boys who im too new to know. When big characters go gradually over time the size of the community smallens and everyone merges together into teams and longstory short thats how people get stacked and makes tournies not winnable for 80% of the teams and boring for the other 20%.

2) The amount of tournaments hosted, especially in 2018. There was like atleast 2 or 3 a month and that is to me, the sole reason we are in the state of not enjoying the game and and why its on its last legs. A combination of Moskito, Herishey, MarxeiL and MightyPaiN hosted quite a lot of Tournaments and Leagues and when you have them really frequent it takes the rarity feeling of proving u are the best away, how it is now is you win a tourny then two weeks later u need to defend the tourny win etc. That in itself takes away the enjoyment and reward of winning but when u combine that with the fact some people have played for lots of years and not had 1 a month  for several months  then to go to this many, can be draining and ruin the feeling in general. Think what im saying is people have burnt themselves out by participating in all the tournaments in 2018 and mid to late 2017 and just stop playing as the feeling they once thought about a tournament was fading away with the members that was slowly leaving.

Yeah i might have the gramma police, out in full force! on this one. But I said what i thought as this seemed the thread to express opinions :)
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on February 27, 2019, 06:47:40 pm
The skill level has both increased overall yet decreased at the top recently, not to mention the meta that most of the new gens have employed to compete with the older more experienced players has caused some controversy with whole teams being labeled as cancer to play (not just individual players) and so on.

The reason only 10% of players take duel tourneys seriously is because EU dueling has become a joke and there are only some willing to bear it to get their 5 minutes of fame.
 
Frenchtouch's "era" was around when there was a lul in competition as teams like PowerRangers and TFFO were fazing out, yet I can still agree that it was one of the best teams of all time.
Players like Extazz and Drake have never been in an underdog team that hasn't included the same group of FT lads so Extazz u cant really chat to Golden about that.
Edit: Credit where its Due FT made themselves from nothing but its players haven't been successful anywhere else.

Golden the only time u haven't been in a top team in the recent competitive scene is when you first joined TBE.

Having stacked teams like Poosy and All-stars doesn't make it fun for everyone else which is why it probably made the scene more fun after the teams disbanded and their skilled players dissipated into separate teams.

Yes there are too many tourneys.

No it probably won't change peoples attitudes if they are hosted less as most of the main people left have made up their mind on how they feel about playing.


 

I agree with you bagins and im not saying I wasn't in top teams but I at least tried to counteract the cancer that was just the same top 3 teams winning over and over again, and the ridiculous stacked teams that begin from late 2016 onwards. And yes Frenchtouch was pretty good. And you have to admit poosy and chimpz were both overly stacked to shit after all-stars and FT left.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Sir Obelix on February 28, 2019, 12:45:48 am
people are getting bored bcs 98% of players have the same playstyle, we need an update to change this low ping blockchamber meta  8)
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Nero_ on February 28, 2019, 07:30:57 am
ChimpZ Academy was supposed to be the solution, but no one listened to Hokej :-\
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: sirkaide on March 01, 2019, 02:43:01 pm
The community cannot be counted on for a few reasons. We have the same old tired dinosaurs that would never leave and controlled the competitive scene for so long.
Secondly, when you try and run a decent event or competition you get alot of shit and alot of people let you down. I ran multiple events a week for 5 years and it was very stressful at times.

My last competition that I hosted was the NWCL - https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=33837.msg1461209#msg1461209

I believe it was well organised but I really struggled with regiments and people dropping out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aon021DrW50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0LboVYOHHQ
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Haze on March 01, 2019, 03:01:27 pm
On FT
Spoiler
@Golden FT isn't stacked, we started from the bottom, learning A to Z, in a uncompetitive and pretty hostile french community dominated by GB and GER on the eu scene at the time, for most we started in randomish regiments, a community in which dozen regiment would be estimated better, in which dozens of players would be estimated better.


Just don't forget, back then, herishey or lebrave could tell you about, it was all about the anglo-sphere, if you we'rent part of them or friends with them (like : 91st, 92nd, GB, 1st 17e?) you would have to do 2 or 3x more, if you we'rent part of their teams or organizations they run, like FFE for exemple, you probably wouldn't be backed up by them as a good/top groupfighter. They would always say the best frenchie is their frenchie, the best polish is their polish, the one that plays for them.
No lie, they we're winning, but you get what i meant. it's harder.

Being britons or english-speaking in this game (even nowadays for the whole EU experience), joining those pillar organizations, you would easily and steadily improve, meet very good players, learn about the "meta" of then, make them learn about you and back you to get in good teams, and all in all : your get your ticket easier for the eu scene top show. And despite not coming from this environment, hostilities in our own community, we made it from scratch, and our meta is still unmatched, favored, and continue to influence as obelix stated, we get the credits for the meta right (8 EU duel gold, 5/6 silver, bronzes etc...), tryhards they say. FT was the place we offered safety, solidarity, good fun, and constant improving curve, that's why people like fwuffy joined and stayed, not for winning, he stayed even when we faced a few losses.
Our core : LeBrave, Maharbaal, ExtaZz94, Drake would never ever leave, allowing us to continue improving at our path to reach the level we did, not by stack strategies.
 What where the chance from some noobish frenchies to climb like that, and establish new standards : very low. So golden, we had a good team we constructed in the first place from A 1) We heavily formed our players 2) Created our own meta 3) Climb the ladder to the top 4) Successed at top with consistance.
[close]

As for all All-Stars, it ended up a super-team no doubt, but not always we had the rosters people might think of, even at our highest, they were still others very good teams, if you look at native, there's the Frontline Tactics (FT rocks both way :D), they have every fucking best player at every positions taking players from former dominant AE to play cash prized tournament. would you imagine gb + fra for a cash prized nwwc ? that's how crazy a true super-team is.

All-Stars was an answer to larger formats, DF, Herishey, Mightypain enforced to "bring more competitions", didn't really succeed at the end, ironically, it wasn't necessary and produced the inverse effect. After FT disbanded, i saw they started hosting 5v5 back, i'm curious but i won't ask them :D. Morale if you want a great scene, host every kinds of tournaments, polyvalence is the real sign of capabilities, if you are the TBE or TFFO leader and only host tournaments your team can plays in then you're not helping your community, no disrespect mighty and herishey friendo.  Edit : However, i want to point out that we can thank these 3 guys for all the time and work they put on organizing events for others people, and this message isn't intended as a blame on them.

Host tournies for duellist, for duo, for trio, for 5 people team, for 8 people team or if you don't like one of theses, host the one you like when needed, don't spam it, that's what i did when hosting a few 5v5.

I believe herishey has a good idea, but it need to be done carefully, doors should always be open, regulating organization is a good solution but it must be handled in a careful way as to who, how, and why decisions are taken, fairness and diversity without conflict of interest or bias.
You could do something like both Tournaments Agenda + List, a system of both tournament opportunities and public rewards and listing, on the basics of what marxeil already done, and huge emphasis only to respect these, not going to play others ones. You can also do lesser numbered tournament but more quality and dedication demanded as Marxeil did, but you would do it with more dedication by players, it will increase the skill ceiling even.

Yes, i mean csgo tournament are made of few teams finally, with more than average motivated and talented guys.

Solution ? You don't need 120 players per tournament, you need interested and motivated players that will really come and produce quality competition and opposition, whether they are 16, 32, or 64. UFC and Boxing only needs 2 guys to make big money. Ask tardets tips for hype. You can very probably add new features to tournies, like just not, signing-up + come at the server + goodbye. Work on regulation, originality, interest, hype and accessibility for every nw players, not just the same 60 people.
One word on originality, it doesn't need to be necessarily new formats and rules, but how do you hype it and make it living and interesting without making it a fun event that hold no contest to it, self-vanity of own guessed capabilities is the fuel of competition at the end of the day.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on March 01, 2019, 03:19:51 pm
On FT
Spoiler
@Golden FT isn't stacked, we started from the bottom, learning A to Z, in a uncompetitive and pretty hostile french community dominated by GB and GER on the eu scene at the time, for most we started in randomish regiments, a community in which dozen regiment would be estimated better, in which dozens of players would be estimated better.


Just don't forget, back then, herishey or lebrave could tell you about, it was all about the anglo-sphere, if you we'rent part of them or friends with them (like : 91st, 92nd, GB, 1st 17e?) you would have to do 2 or 3x more, if you we'rent part of their teams or organizations they run, like FFE for exemple, you probably wouldn't be backed up by them as a good/top groupfighter. They would always say the best frenchie is their frenchie, the best polish is their polish, the one that plays for them.
No lie, they we're winning, but you get what i meant. it's harder.

Being britons or english-speaking in this game (even nowadays for the whole EU experience), joining those pillar organizations, you would easily and steadily improve, meet very good players, learn about the "meta" of then, make them learn about you and back you to get in good teams, and all in all : your get your ticket easier for the eu scene top show. And despite not coming from this environment, hostilities in our own community, we made it from scratch, and our meta is still unmatched, favored, and continue to influence as obelix stated, we get the credits for the meta right (8 EU duel gold, 5/6 silver, bronzes etc...), tryhards they say. FT was the place we offered safety, solidarity, good fun, and constant improving curve, that's why people like fwuffy joined and stayed, not for winning, he stayed even when we faced a few losses.
Our core : LeBrave, Maharbaal, ExtaZz94, Drake would never ever leave, allowing us to continue improving at our path to reach the level we did, not by stack strategies.
 What where the chance from some noobish frenchies to climb like that, and establish new standards : very low. So golden, we had a good team we constructed in the first place from A 1) We heavily formed our players 2) Created our own meta 3) Climb the ladder to the top 4) Successed at top with consistance.
[close]

As for all All-Stars, it ended up a super-team no doubt, but not always we had the rosters people might think of, even at our highest, they we're still other very good teams, if you look at native, there's the Frontline Tactics (FT rocks both way :D), they have every fucking best player at every positions taking players from former dominant AE to play cash prized tournament. would you imagine gb + fra for a cash prized nwwc ? that's how crazy a true super-team is.

All-Stars was an answer to larger format, DF, Herishey, Mightypain enforced to "bring more competitions", didn't really succeed at the end, ironically, it wasn't necessary and produced the inverse effect. After FT disbanded, i saw they started hosting 5v5 back, i'm curious but i won't ask them :D. Morale if you want a great scene, host every kinds of tournaments, polyvalence is the real sign of capabilities, if you are the TBE or TFFO leader and only host tournaments your team can plays in then you're not helping your community, no disrespect mighty and herishey friendo.

Host tournies for duellist, for duo, for trio, for 5 people team, for 8 people team or if you don't like one of theses, host the one you like when needed, don't spam it, that's what i did when hosting a few 5v5.

I believe herishey has a good idea, but it need to be done carefully, doors should always be open, regulating organization is a good solution but it must be handled in a careful way as to who, how, and why decisions are taken, fairness and diversity without conflict of interest or bias.
You could do something like both Tournaments Agenda + List, a system of both tournament opportunities and public rewards and listing, on the basics of what marxeil already done, and huge emphasis only to respect these, not going to play others ones. You can also do lesser numbered tournament but more quality and dedication demanded as Marxeil did, but you would do it with more dedication by players, it will increase the skill ceiling even.

Yes, i mean csgo tournament are made of few teams finally, with more than average motivated and talented guys.

Solution ? You don't need 120 players per tournament, you need interested and motivated players that will really come and produce quality competition and opposition, whether they are 16, 32, or 64. UFC and Boxing only needs 2 guys to make big money. Ask tardets tips for hype. You can very probably add new features to tournies, like just not, signing-up + come at the server + goodbye. Work on regulation, originality, interest, hype and accessibility for every nw players, not just the same 60 people.
One word on originality, it doesn't need to be necessarily new formats and rules, but how do you hype it and make it living and interesting without making it a fun event that hold no contest to it, self-vanity of own guessed capabilities is the fuel of competition at the end of the day.

I agree with the majority of what you have said and in regards to FT you are right, however i'm not going to go and agree with the whole meta change. You stated about a certain sphere of players dominating from 2012-2014 I know exactly what you mean by that and it's true. Yes Native have front line tactics but that team doesn't surprise me when they are playing for so much money. Where as on NW it's hard to forget the idea of creating a super team is stupid, it can't really be defended in any matter and a diversity of competition is crucially important to the game actually being enjoyable. I actually think at the moment there is some nice diversity among teams and a fair amount of competition, especially with jedis recent win. But the tournaments need to be like you said made into a bigger event.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on March 01, 2019, 03:21:51 pm
At the time near the end of TFFO or when I was in TBE I didn't host tournaments only for my team. I simply hosted tournaments I wanted to play in or I enjoyed. I enjoy the larger formats (7v7, 8v8) a bit more as they are less passive and there are more opportunities. That is also why around these times I hosted a few sword based tournaments as I enjoy them. Also I've still never hosted tournaments more than once every 2-3 months (apart from the odd 'fun' one in between).

When I did host tournaments more actively there weren't as many different hosts as there are today so tournaments were still well spread.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on March 01, 2019, 03:26:46 pm
also clearly chimpz climbed to the top and created their own meta after years of hard work guys  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpzgfIWbon4
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Haze on March 01, 2019, 04:06:47 pm
Golden, maybe you missconfuse set-up that can make you win a match, with meta which is the fondamentals of playstyle we've seen rising in 2016 : be a wall and catch the first error

The meta about the whole solidity, cautious, no error style of playing : its ok to take his time if needed, no more play when advantages gained, actions restriction applied to some, not everyone will try first pick.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Wursti on March 01, 2019, 04:57:57 pm
People tend to underestimate how active the casual scene is
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Stasi on March 01, 2019, 05:18:03 pm
Golden, maybe you missconfuse set-up that can make you win a match, with meta which is the fondamentals of playstyle we've seen rising in 2016 : be a wall and catch the first error

The meta about the whole solidity, cautious, no error style of playing : its ok to take his time if needed, no more play when advantages gained, actions restriction applied to some, not everyone will try first pick.
try again in english
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: junedragon on March 01, 2019, 05:28:32 pm
Since 2019 started, I feel like NW is less competitive, people aren't taking the competitions as seriously as in the last year.

Thank god, its about damn time
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Wursti on March 01, 2019, 06:35:53 pm
Golden, maybe you missconfuse set-up that can make you win a match, with meta which is the fondamentals of playstyle we've seen rising in 2016 : be a wall and catch the first error

The meta about the whole solidity, cautious, no error style of playing : its ok to take his time if needed, no more play when advantages gained, actions restriction applied to some, not everyone will try first pick.
try again in english

idk what ur problem is Stasi cuz i acutally understood it pretty easily
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: SilverBolt on March 01, 2019, 07:05:18 pm
idk what ur problem is Stasi cuz i acutally understood it pretty easily
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Eamon on March 05, 2019, 01:29:06 am
idk what ur problem is Stasi cuz i acutally understood it pretty easily

Not all of us are fluent in retard tho
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: DayBoul on March 05, 2019, 02:07:30 am
we started from the bottom,
actually i can vouch for this, lebrave and haze were astoundingly shit back in the 2eFusGre  ;D
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Matt_ on March 05, 2019, 03:29:47 pm
idk what ur problem is Stasi cuz i acutally understood it pretty easily

Not all of us are fluent in retard tho
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Tommmy on May 13, 2019, 08:42:42 am
*retires*
Plays in tournaments and fucks everyone over

OOF
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fralla8 on May 14, 2019, 04:55:32 pm
FSE 101, never actually mention you're retiring
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Nero_ on May 14, 2019, 05:13:04 pm
FSE 101, never actually mention you're retiring
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Harford on May 14, 2019, 05:16:36 pm
same i retired back in 2015 or 2016
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Ambiguous on May 14, 2019, 05:22:06 pm
This thread slipped under my nose due to be being inactive for a while. There were a lot of good points made on this thread but I feel as if some people weren’t blunt enough about the true reasons the competitive scene gets boring for a lot of oldgens and feels unreachable for newgens.Will post an essay on this when I get home from work.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on May 14, 2019, 05:24:40 pm
Yey let's start this discussion again which has already ended and been acted upon!
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on May 14, 2019, 05:24:47 pm
what is killing nw is the boring s keyers like bagins and golden
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Ambiguous on May 14, 2019, 05:25:24 pm
Yey let's start this discussion again which has already ended and been acted upon!
TOG is a good way to delay the death of competitive NW, but not enough to stop it.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 14, 2019, 05:53:01 pm
I mean, I don't know what you would say about any of this Dan.

The issues Fotin brought up, they were mostly acted upon and the other points about the NW community being on its last legs isn't really true either.

He posted this before EIC sign ups were started, but in the end we had over 30 regiments sign up with 26 total being accepted in some form. Had interest from more as well. Now we have regiments such as 17th joining into the community again as well.

Without FSE coming out and forking out money for advertisement etc. there is no way that NW can be "stopped from dying". So all we have is to delay anyway.

Lets face it none of us degenerates are going to start a big monetary campaign for NW.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Ambiguous on May 14, 2019, 06:15:43 pm
I’ll post a longer reply later but Chriseh you being the host of one of the major tournaments on NW shows how dire of a time it is.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on May 14, 2019, 06:27:24 pm
Chriseh and I have hosted one of the major tournaments for like the past 4 years.   ;D
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Ambiguous on May 14, 2019, 06:54:13 pm
Chriseh and I have hosted one of the major tournaments for like the past 4 years.   ;D
I did not mention your name, but Chriseh being a host is not whats killing NW it’s a symptom of a larger issue.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 14, 2019, 07:00:32 pm
I’ll post a longer reply later but Chriseh you being the host of one of the major tournaments on NW shows how dire of a time it is.
I've been hosting tournaments long before you joined NW from cracked.

I'll wait for your reply but everything you usually say about me is more about my attitude towards you as a person.

Chriseh and I have hosted one of the major tournaments for like the past 4 years.   ;D
BUT HERI HE MEAN TO ME
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on May 14, 2019, 07:11:56 pm
what is killing nw is the boring s keyers like bagins and golden

 ???
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 14, 2019, 07:13:24 pm
what is killing nw is the boring s keyers like bagins and golden

 ???
mate let's be honest it's all true.

I see you lad, can't hide your inner German from me >:(
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on May 14, 2019, 07:15:27 pm
what is killing nw is the boring s keyers like bagins and golden

 ???
mate let's be honest it's all true.

I see you lad, can't hide your inner German from me >:(

Cazadores and frenchies are to blame for this i've always been an advocate for aggressive melee. Don't forget Mightypain rated me top #1 aggressive player on his old list!
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 14, 2019, 07:27:03 pm
I see you! Pesky Germans always trying to pull the wool over our eyes!
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on May 14, 2019, 09:28:13 pm
what is killing nw is the boring s keyers like bagins and golden

 ???

trolled xDD
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Wursti on May 14, 2019, 09:39:50 pm
what is killing nw is the boring s keyers like bagins and golden
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Ambiguous on May 14, 2019, 11:40:12 pm
I know I said I'd reply to this today, but I've been writing this reply for the past few hours and I can't say I'm done completely. I'll post my thing probably tomorrow/the day after.

TL;DR is that I think the community has some very threatening issues which have been ignored for too long and that things need to change for our community to hold out at least till bannerlord.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: QuinnML on May 14, 2019, 11:51:02 pm
TOG is a good way to delay the death of competitive NW, but not enough to stop it.

TOG is an awful idea. I'm just glad we don't see this pretentious cancer seeping into cav yet. Although really the community doesnt have any legs left, just a waiting game for Bannerlord
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on May 14, 2019, 11:52:25 pm
TOG is a good way to delay the death of competitive NW, but not enough to stop it.

TOG is an awful idea. I'm just glad we don't see this pretentious cancer seeping into cav yet. Although really the community doesnt have any legs left, just a waiting game for Bannerlord

I hope that's a joke, TOG so far has been very successful and the tournaments have been well run. Furthermore the prize pool was handed out unlike previous tournaments. Don't comment on something you barely have a part of or even an understanding.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Snowwi on May 14, 2019, 11:54:51 pm
Implying Bannerlord will ever be released
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: QuinnML on May 15, 2019, 12:01:48 am
I hope that's a joke, TOG so far has been very successful and the tournaments have been well run. Furthermore the prize pool was handed out unlike previous tournaments. Don't comment on something you barely have a part of or even an understanding.

Well I'm part of the community, so I'm entitled to my opinion. This is kind of the problem with TOG. Pretentious people telling others what they can and can't, should and shouldn't do.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on May 15, 2019, 12:08:39 am
I hope that's a joke, TOG so far has been very successful and the tournaments have been well run. Furthermore the prize pool was handed out unlike previous tournaments. Don't comment on something you barely have a part of or even an understanding.

Well I'm part of the community, so I'm entitled to my opinion. This is kind of the problem with TOG. Pretentious people telling others what they can and can't, should and shouldn't do.

I didn't tell you what you can't, should and shouldn't do. I simply stated your opinion is invalid when you are so ignorant about the subject. You spend your time on the forums throwing baits and posting irrelevant and stupid comments about people. If you want to discuss and help improve TOG then maybe you could speak to some of the GF team leaders and organisers and involve yourself instead of making comments founded on nothing but your own stupidity.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: antslimey on May 15, 2019, 12:18:39 am
If it makes you guys feel better. EU is 10x more active than NA
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fralla8 on May 15, 2019, 12:19:49 am
If it makes you guys feel better. EU is 10x more active than NA
I can finally sleep at night knowing this
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Eamon on May 15, 2019, 09:41:05 am
I hope that's a joke, TOG so far has been very successful and the tournaments have been well run. Furthermore the prize pool was handed out unlike previous tournaments. Don't comment on something you barely have a part of or even an understanding.

Well I'm part of the community, so I'm entitled to my opinion. This is kind of the problem with TOG. Pretentious people telling others what they can and can't, should and shouldn't do.

I didn't tell you what you can't, should and shouldn't do. I simply stated your opinion is invalid when you are so ignorant about the subject. You spend your time on the forums throwing baits and posting irrelevant and stupid comments about people. If you want to discuss and help improve TOG then maybe you could speak to some of the GF team leaders and organisers and involve yourself instead of making comments founded on noting but your own stupidity.

I taught Golden all the smart speak he knows
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on May 15, 2019, 09:53:04 am
I hope that's a joke, TOG so far has been very successful and the tournaments have been well run. Furthermore the prize pool was handed out unlike previous tournaments. Don't comment on something you barely have a part of or even an understanding.

Well I'm part of the community, so I'm entitled to my opinion. This is kind of the problem with TOG. Pretentious people telling others what they can and can't, should and shouldn't do.

I didn't tell you what you can't, should and shouldn't do. I simply stated your opinion is invalid when you are so ignorant about the subject. You spend your time on the forums throwing baits and posting irrelevant and stupid comments about people. If you want to discuss and help improve TOG then maybe you could speak to some of the GF team leaders and organisers and involve yourself instead of making comments founded on noting but your own stupidity.
I don't know why anyone actually bothers replying to Quinn at this point to be honest. He spouts his opinion on anything on FSE without any knowledge or points to actually back anything up. Don't waste your time Golden. :)
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 15, 2019, 10:04:25 am
He says he is a part of the community so he is entitled to his own opinion, but he is one of those cases where you can legitimately say fuck free speech
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fralla8 on May 15, 2019, 01:53:38 pm
Dunning–Kruger effect
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 15, 2019, 02:00:09 pm
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ananseproductions.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F01%2Fwaiting-game-meme-generator-and-now-the-waiting-game-07fc04.png&hash=a77f811c77c46739ed360cb24c6712348ef35210)

Can't wait for Dan's post. Judging by the messages I have been sent a large portion of it is going to be irrelevant.

@Dan, I hope the outcome of your post is constructive towards hosts in general. We want to see the system improve and excel over what ever time NW has left. Not regress.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Nock on May 15, 2019, 02:15:36 pm
cant wait for some drama
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 15, 2019, 02:24:38 pm
Its the nectar of life that we 18e thrive on.

All we need now is Ronan.

Where he at doe
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on May 15, 2019, 02:26:04 pm
nw without 18e = kys tier
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Anubis. on May 15, 2019, 03:20:13 pm
what is killing nw is the boring s keyers like bagins and golden

 ???
mate let's be honest it's all true.

I see you lad, can't hide your inner German from me >:(

Cazadores and frenchies are to blame for this i've always been an advocate for aggressive melee. Don't forget Mightypain rated me top #1 aggressive player on his old list!
Cazadores? Wasnt it you who said against cazadores dont do anything and just skey away! advocate aggresive melee smh.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on May 15, 2019, 03:24:26 pm
what is killing nw is the boring s keyers like bagins and golden

 ???
mate let's be honest it's all true.

I see you lad, can't hide your inner German from me >:(

Cazadores and frenchies are to blame for this i've always been an advocate for aggressive melee. Don't forget Mightypain rated me top #1 aggressive player on his old list!
Cazadores? Wasnt it you who said against cazadores dont do anything and just skey away! advocate aggresive melee smh.

you guys deserve to get s keyd against, u boring s keyers
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Anubis. on May 15, 2019, 03:28:36 pm
what is killing nw is the boring s keyers like bagins and golden

 ???
mate let's be honest it's all true.

I see you lad, can't hide your inner German from me >:(

Cazadores and frenchies are to blame for this i've always been an advocate for aggressive melee. Don't forget Mightypain rated me top #1 aggressive player on his old list!
Cazadores? Wasnt it you who said against cazadores dont do anything and just skey away! advocate aggresive melee smh.

you guys deserve to get s keyd against, u boring s keyers
Cazadores has one of the most aggressive flank of all teams imo. I always push back the enemy, I rarely got pushed back on my own side. I would say in the last tournament chimpz was more defensive than cazadores, on my flank for sure.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Wursti on May 15, 2019, 03:30:35 pm
Didn't see that in the King GF thing when we played against Cazadores  ???
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Anubis. on May 15, 2019, 03:32:31 pm
Well i was king at that tournament so I wasn't going to push
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: nIvan on May 15, 2019, 05:18:19 pm
Well i was king at that tournament so I wasn't going to push
You mean bc I wasn’t there??
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: QuinnML on May 15, 2019, 06:16:14 pm
I hope that's a joke, TOG so far has been very successful and the tournaments have been well run. Furthermore the prize pool was handed out unlike previous tournaments. Don't comment on something you barely have a part of or even an understanding.

Well I'm part of the community, so I'm entitled to my opinion. This is kind of the problem with TOG. Pretentious people telling others what they can and can't, should and shouldn't do.

I didn't tell you what you can't, should and shouldn't do. I simply stated your opinion is invalid when you are so ignorant about the subject. You spend your time on the forums throwing baits and posting irrelevant and stupid comments about people. If you want to discuss and help improve TOG then maybe you could speak to some of the GF team leaders and organisers and involve yourself instead of making comments founded on noting but your own stupidity.
I don't know why anyone actually bothers replying to Quinn at this point to be honest. He spouts his opinion on anything on FSE without any knowledge or points to actually back anything up. Don't waste your time Golden. :)

Seeing H*rishey opposed to my statement just makes me more confident that my assessment was correct. Idk, talk about me without knowing me, you clearly don’t follow my post history or who I am in the community, but that’s fine, I don’t expect you to, I’m not famous. Calling me ignorant because I’m opposed to TOG, which is clearly a threat to the health of the community, is an interesting way of avoiding healthy discussion. Let me guess - you’re somehow involved in TOG? Funny that
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: QuinnML on May 15, 2019, 06:21:48 pm
Let me guess - you’re somehow involved in TOG? Funny that

Head organiser - Herishey

et voila. Not only pretentious, also straight to insults rather than to discuss things or tolerate even a single opinion contrary to your own self interests. Noted.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fralla8 on May 15, 2019, 06:24:26 pm
I hope that's a joke, TOG so far has been very successful and the tournaments have been well run. Furthermore the prize pool was handed out unlike previous tournaments. Don't comment on something you barely have a part of or even an understanding.

Well I'm part of the community, so I'm entitled to my opinion. This is kind of the problem with TOG. Pretentious people telling others what they can and can't, should and shouldn't do.

I didn't tell you what you can't, should and shouldn't do. I simply stated your opinion is invalid when you are so ignorant about the subject. You spend your time on the forums throwing baits and posting irrelevant and stupid comments about people. If you want to discuss and help improve TOG then maybe you could speak to some of the GF team leaders and organisers and involve yourself instead of making comments founded on noting but your own stupidity.
I don't know why anyone actually bothers replying to Quinn at this point to be honest. He spouts his opinion on anything on FSE without any knowledge or points to actually back anything up. Don't waste your time Golden. :)

Seeing H*rishey opposed to my statement just makes me more confident that my assessment was correct. Idk, talk about me without knowing me, you clearly don’t follow my post history or who I am in the community, but that’s fine, I don’t expect you to, I’m not famous. Calling me ignorant because I’m opposed to TOG, which is clearly a threat to the health of the community, is an interesting way of avoiding healthy discussion. Let me guess - you’re somehow involved in TOG? Funny that
Your "post history" is just you being an asshat IMO, so personally I couldn't give a single shit about what you have to say.
But that's just my opinion...
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 15, 2019, 06:26:01 pm
Quinn mate you clearly have no idea judging by what you have said.

I'm a part of TOG but if there is anyone who is more critical of the system itself than me, I would like you to point them out. At this point I'm sure everyone in TOG is bored of me. Especially Voluble and Herishey!

The issue is not that we are opposed to a healthy discussion, but you have provided no meaningful context nor real points to your argument. The only thing you have said is "Its a thread to the health of the community". In fact it is not. If you took part in the Infantry tournament scene prior to the inception of TOG I feel as though you would agree to it more. Unless you were and I missed seeing you around? but I usually remember a name.

Please, if you can create a constructive argument as to why its bad for the community then we can respond with our own response. Until then please do not expect a proper response from us until we have something coherent to respond to.

Is that not fair of us to ask of you? :)
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Tardet on May 15, 2019, 06:29:16 pm
No one denies you the right to formulate an opinion Quinn but I think you don't realize that your recent behavior on many infantry-related topics, forum-wise, make it hard for people to take you any seriously.

I had the chance to know you from the cavalry community so I am perfectly aware that you are a mature, rather cool-headed person, but I am not surprised to see certain of your posts met with such hostility.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Dokletian on May 15, 2019, 06:40:08 pm
what are you doing over there in the inf community anyway, Quinn?

that's a dangerous zone
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: David_Schrein on May 15, 2019, 06:42:22 pm
Lol imagine getting dicked on by fralla777
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Voluble123 on May 15, 2019, 06:56:12 pm
Quinn, add me on steam (Gack Jrealish) and we can have a conversation about TOG.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: QuinnML on May 15, 2019, 08:12:09 pm
what are you doing over there in the inf community anyway, Quinn?

that's a dangerous zone

Yes, they read first your name, and if they haven't sucked your cock before they don't even read what you are writing.
At least Voluble messages me on steam and actually hears my opinion, rather than jumping straight to criticising my personality and 'ignorance'.
But really this was one of my problems with TOG; the community cares much more about your name than your ideas.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on May 15, 2019, 08:14:53 pm
what are you doing over there in the inf community anyway, Quinn?

that's a dangerous zone

Yes, they read first your name, and if they haven't sucked your cock before they don't even read what you are writing.
At least Voluble messages me on steam and actually hears my opinion, rather than jumping straight to criticising my personality and 'ignorance'.
But really this was one of my problems with TOG; the community cares much more about your name than your ideas.
I didn't jump to conclusions. I've seen the posts you've made on the majority of threads. I know you have knowledge in the cav scene but in the infantry scene every thread you post on you never have any weight against anything you say. You never back it up. Feel free to go ahead and prove me wrong though I have no issues with people criticizing things I'm involved with. I'm a big boy. :)
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: QuinnML on May 15, 2019, 08:47:32 pm
I didn't jump to conclusions. I've seen the posts you've made on the majority of threads. I know you have knowledge in the cav scene but in the infantry scene every thread you post on you never have any weight against anything you say. You never back it up. Feel free to go ahead and prove me wrong though I have no issues with people criticizing things I'm involved with. I'm a big boy. :)

Literally all I said here was that TOG was an awful idea. Which I truly believe. I don't have to post a thesis alongside any comment I make, instead of any sensible reply I just get the usual targeted attacks you'd expect from any infantry board. It's funny that you say you have no issues with criticism when your instant reply to my criticism was 'ignore this guy, don't give him discussion'. Bizarre.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on May 15, 2019, 08:49:39 pm
I didn't jump to conclusions. I've seen the posts you've made on the majority of threads. I know you have knowledge in the cav scene but in the infantry scene every thread you post on you never have any weight against anything you say. You never back it up. Feel free to go ahead and prove me wrong though I have no issues with people criticizing things I'm involved with. I'm a big boy. :)

Literally all I said here was that TOG was an awful idea. Which I truly believe. I don't have to post a thesis alongside any comment I make, instead of any sensible reply I just get the usual targeted attacks you'd expect from any infantry board. It's funny that you say you have no issues with criticism when your instant reply to my criticism was 'ignore this guy, don't give him discussion'. Bizarre.
Because from what I've seen on any posts you've made on the infantry boards you never back up what you say. I don't care about your name or who you are but if you can't back up what you're saying then why should or would anyone listen? If you're just going to throw sentences out there then realistically no one will care.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 15, 2019, 09:02:33 pm
what are you doing over there in the inf community anyway, Quinn?

that's a dangerous zone

Yes, they read first your name, and if they haven't sucked your cock before they don't even read what you are writing.
At least Voluble messages me on steam and actually hears my opinion, rather than jumping straight to criticising my personality and 'ignorance'.
But really this was one of my problems with TOG; the community cares much more about your name than your ideas.
Only reason Vol asked you to add him was because I gave him the thread link. We asked you for a constructive argument and you didn't give one.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: QuinnML on May 15, 2019, 09:09:05 pm
Only reason Vol asked you to add him was because I gave him the thread link. We asked you for a constructive argument and you didn't give one.

Well I'm not going to post a developed answer when the response to my comment was like 5 ad hominem attacks.

Because from what I've seen on any posts you've made on the infantry boards you never back up what you say. I don't care about your name or who you are but if you can't back up what you're saying then why should or would anyone listen? If you're just going to throw sentences out there then realistically no one will care.

'Posts I made on infantry boards' were just some light hearted jokes that I'm great at infantry. Big reveal: I'm shit at infantry. That's the joke. The first thing I even really posted was a screenshot from a gf and I literally had a negative kd. The response to that? Maybe some joke about me being shit? No, I'm told to kill myself. Are you seeing the problem yet? Or are you gonna talk again about the fact that I'm a noname.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 15, 2019, 09:30:38 pm
Your account is 2 years old, most the people on FSE are morons like that and you should know that by now xD

Not much we can really do about that but this is the thing though, like you said you spoke to Vol about it so no point in going on about it.

But there is a TOG thread for a reason with a whole list of who is involved so maybe speaking about it there instead of this thread where all the autists seem to have congregated would have been a better idea idk.

But are you satisfied with what Vol said? Do you have abit more clarity?
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: QuinnML on May 15, 2019, 09:33:18 pm
It's not really a matter of clarity; I think TOG is a bad idea, full stop. But it was nice to actually discuss it with someone, rather than this behaviour from Herishey and such. This is just a thing that came up in forum discussion, if you'll look I was replying to someone. It's not like I was out looking to badmouth TOG, otherwise yes I might have just gone to the TOG page.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 15, 2019, 09:35:50 pm
Fair enough, but why do you think its a bad idea? Not digging at you I just genuinly would like to know.

Before I joined TOG I thought it was just a way of a few players monopolizing the community and just trying to get power to tell people what they can and cannot do for the sake of it but my opinion on that has changed.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Silen on May 15, 2019, 09:45:01 pm
The infantry board is funny: "I don't know this guy, so he can kill himself."
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 15, 2019, 09:53:51 pm
Yeah, that doesn't happen.

Also where is this actually happening? I only see one retarded shitpost from Piercee... Its fucking Piercee if he doesn't have some form of down syndrome then I am Kim Kardashian
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on May 15, 2019, 10:00:24 pm
Only reason Vol asked you to add him was because I gave him the thread link. We asked you for a constructive argument and you didn't give one.

Well I'm not going to post a developed answer when the response to my comment was like 5 ad hominem attacks.

Because from what I've seen on any posts you've made on the infantry boards you never back up what you say. I don't care about your name or who you are but if you can't back up what you're saying then why should or would anyone listen? If you're just going to throw sentences out there then realistically no one will care.

'Posts I made on infantry boards' were just some light hearted jokes that I'm great at infantry. Big reveal: I'm shit at infantry. That's the joke. The first thing I even really posted was a screenshot from a gf and I literally had a negative kd. The response to that? Maybe some joke about me being shit? No, I'm told to kill myself. Are you seeing the problem yet? Or are you gonna talk again about the fact that I'm a noname.
I mean I never mentioned whether you were a no name or not. All I said is I haven't seen you post anything constructive and with your past couple posts you still haven't proven me wrong. I don't condone people saying for you to kill yourself for posting a screenshot, nor have I done it for at least over a year if I ever did so I don't really see what you're getting at to be honest.

Either way if you feel like having an actual discussion about what you posted at some point either post it here, drop me a PM or even add me on Steam.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on May 15, 2019, 11:18:52 pm
The infantry board is funny: "I don't know this guy, so he can kill himself."

shut up noname xD
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: QuinnML on May 15, 2019, 11:20:11 pm
Discussion is over  ::)
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Silen on May 16, 2019, 12:25:49 am
The infantry board is funny: "I don't know this guy, so he can kill himself."

shut up noname xD

omgggg wtf ill report u my dad works at this company okkk
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fungus on May 16, 2019, 01:48:12 am
Cav kids trying to swing their dicks near the big boys
NW is truly dead
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Nock on May 16, 2019, 02:41:04 am
The infantry board is funny: "I don't know this guy, so he can kill himself."

shut up noname xD
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Silen on May 16, 2019, 02:55:28 am
The infantry board is funny: "I don't know this guy, so he can kill himself."

shut up noname xD

ill knock u out boi
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Nock on May 16, 2019, 03:20:42 am
come at me i'm an ex cav aswell
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 16, 2019, 08:44:01 am
We've all been cav at some point lmao

The 54e_MchlC_Chriseh glory days
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: StephanGH on May 16, 2019, 10:51:09 am
Smh. Cav is fun and Inf is fun.

Either way rn it seems like Herishey is doing a good job with that organising thing. Itd be great if cav can skmehow be included imo. Maybe a seperate branch of the same entity. Last CCL completely flopped and died and I think no one wants that again.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on May 16, 2019, 11:19:11 am
I don't mind people doing the same concept for cav whether it's with our name or not. But if it's with the same name/within the same entity then it'd have to be to a certain standard.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: StephanGH on May 16, 2019, 01:06:52 pm
I don't mind people doing the same concept for cav whether it's with our name or not. But if it's with the same name/within the same entity then it'd have to be to a certain standard.

Id prefer keeping it within the same entity but I dont speak for the cav community. In the end uve proven to have standard and Idk who we could even put at the head of this in cav
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Eamon on May 16, 2019, 01:28:22 pm
I don't mind people doing the same concept for cav whether it's with our name or not. But if it's with the same name/within the same entity then it'd have to be to a certain standard.

Id prefer keeping it within the same entity but I dont speak for the cav community. In the end uve proven to have standard and Idk who we could even put at the head of this in cav

Props go to em
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Wursti on May 16, 2019, 03:09:26 pm
Spoiler
pls no modrape its a jock ;_;

(https://i.imgur.com/1Otw28f.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Janne on May 16, 2019, 05:02:56 pm
haha f word epic joke mate  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Wursti on May 16, 2019, 05:05:18 pm
haha f word epic joke mate  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

sorry that ure offended cuz ure fishing on the other side :7
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Tardet on May 19, 2019, 05:54:55 pm
Still waiting for Dan's novel.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 19, 2019, 05:58:40 pm
Still waiting for Dan's novel.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fwuffy on May 19, 2019, 06:28:17 pm
Still waiting for Dan's novel.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Ambiguous on May 19, 2019, 10:20:55 pm
Still waiting for Dan's novel.
Oh yeah I need to finish this.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Snowwi on May 20, 2019, 12:16:56 am
Still waiting for Dan's novel.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Gi on May 21, 2019, 12:49:05 pm
Dan's a tease
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Ambiguous on May 21, 2019, 12:59:17 pm
Dan's a tease
I'm lazy. I also became ill halfway through writing it.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Nero_ on May 21, 2019, 01:15:03 pm
Dan's a tease
I'm lazy. I also became ill halfway through writing it.
pussy
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Ambiguous on May 21, 2019, 01:17:12 pm
Dan's a tease
I'm lazy. I also became ill halfway through writing it.
pussy
No u
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Ry@n on May 21, 2019, 01:36:51 pm
Dan's a tease
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fwuffy on May 22, 2019, 04:12:38 pm
Turns out Quinn was right about TOG, yikes
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Nero_ on May 22, 2019, 04:19:03 pm
Herishey btfo
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: QuinnML on May 22, 2019, 05:52:15 pm
Turns out Quinn was right about TOG, yikes

Quinn = noname 8)
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Gi on May 22, 2019, 05:55:48 pm
Turns out Quinn was right about TOG, yikes
Care to expand upon that
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fwuffy on May 22, 2019, 06:30:03 pm
Turns out Quinn was right about TOG, yikes
Care to expand upon that
will do once I get home
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Gi on May 22, 2019, 07:00:28 pm
Turns out Quinn was right about TOG, yikes
Care to expand upon that
will do once I get home
Great, I'm not currently in an active role with TOG due to inactivity but critique and suggestions should be made regarding everything of this nature.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on May 22, 2019, 07:23:39 pm
I think this is in regards to mighty pain changing his date of the tournament from the 26th of may  to the 2nd of June?

This goes against TOG policy and so far no ones talked about it I presume. But I'm not here on the 26th anyway  ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fwuffy on May 22, 2019, 07:48:00 pm
I think this is in regards to mighty pain changing his date of the tournament from the 26th of may  to the 2nd of June?

This goes against TOG policy and so far no ones talked about it I presume. But I'm not here on the 26th anyway  ;D ;D
this amongst many other things, the lack of transparency and supposed standardisation, which it was supposed to bring, is staggering
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: David_Schrein on May 22, 2019, 08:26:55 pm
I think this is in regards to mighty pain changing his date of the tournament from the 26th of may  to the 2nd of June?

This goes against TOG policy and so far no ones talked about it I presume. But I'm not here on the 26th anyway  ;D ;D
this amongst many other things, the lack of transparency and supposed standardisation, which it was supposed to bring, is staggering
Atleast make a poll for the date and let the captains decide as what the TOG has been doing everytime maby?!?
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Golden. on May 22, 2019, 08:32:53 pm
It's supposed to be 1 fun or different tournament at the start of the month, 1 competitive tournament at the end of the month.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 22, 2019, 09:01:42 pm
TOG does do votes with all Captains. No point in giving it out to anyone else outside of TOG and Cpt's.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fwuffy on May 22, 2019, 09:32:36 pm
TOG does do votes with all Captains. No point in giving it out to anyone else outside of TOG and Cpt's.
Votes on what?
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 22, 2019, 10:01:24 pm
Tournament formats. Dates are pre detirmined on team availability (which is never really a problem when its on a Sunday anyway)
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fwuffy on May 22, 2019, 10:28:22 pm
Tournament formats. Dates are pre detirmined on team availability (which is never really a problem when its on a Sunday anyway)
I'm absolutely for having it happen on the best day for all teams but 1. for Mighty's tournament we were never asked as a team 2. he moved the date without announcing anything on the thread, after having selected the Sunday prior 3. the whole mission of TOG, and this was very specifically stated, was to have a fun tourney on the 2nd Sunday and a proper tourney on the 4th Sunday - so there's obviously a conflict of plans and announcements and what's actually happening. Again I don't mind voting on a date, but then TOG serves absolutely no purpose because if they're not mandating the dates then it's just an organisation who bullied McPero out of hosting a tournament because he had his own date (and format)- oh wait but now we can do that ourselves.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: John Price on May 22, 2019, 10:41:00 pm
I agree with all of this basically. If you remember I also complained about the McPero shit.

Will talk with everyone about Mighty moving his dates as well. I didn't see anything about it.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Kore on May 23, 2019, 03:53:02 am
imma probably host a tournament of some sort soon

tog can suck my dick
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Fungus on May 23, 2019, 12:31:14 pm
For me, it's Kore's meaty cock tbh
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: ~NickCole~ on May 23, 2019, 06:59:56 pm
imma probably host a tournament of some sort soon

tog can suck my dick
Good man
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: tipukhan on May 23, 2019, 09:49:31 pm
Hi everyone,

To those who don't know me, I'm Fotin, I'm playing this game since the summer of 2014. I consider myself as a "competitive player" since the end of 2015, when I joined FrenchTouch.

Today I'm making this topic to share my disappointment about the current NW community. Since 2019 started, I feel like NW is less competitive, people aren't taking the competitions as seriously as in the last year. Also, there is a lack of number of players taking part in the tournaments. I got simple Pinoy channel (http://ofwpinoychannel.com/pinoy-channel/) examples to show it : we're having a fucking nice Duel League and like only 10% of the players that signed up are taking it seriously. Tonight there was a 8v8 tournament : 10 teams only took part in it. I'm hosting the 3rd melee depletion tournament and there is not even 64 players (which is the minimum) to play the tournament.


John Price (or Chriseh) is hosting a new EIC tournament, I really encourage this type of competitions but... I am scared to not have enough people to play it.
I know we're playing on an old game now, and that probably is one of the reasons that explains why the competition is dying, but to me it's not the only reason.

We have an unreliable community. I'm so sad to see that some organizers of leagues spend so many time in this game for nothing. MarxeiL is organizing the TDL (Tiered Duel League), I am one of the moderators in it, and I receive too many messages of the signed up players on Steam saying that this league is useless or shit. Can you please explain me why you signed up if you think that this league is shit ? No. No one can explain it.
Then my theory is symply that people engage themselves in taking part into the competition but they often don't do it, that is why I call our community an unreliable community.


These are the two reasons why, for me, NW competition in 2019 is dead : The game becomes too old and you can't count on the community. And trust me that I'm sad to see this, I hope that Bannerlord will come soon.
Agree with you..! You are explaining with logic. God Bless You.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Eamon on June 05, 2019, 04:12:50 pm
Is this dead
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Ambiguous on June 05, 2019, 05:06:13 pm
Is this dead
I was meant to finish my essay now that you mention it.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Herishey on June 05, 2019, 05:06:44 pm
 :-X
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Nero_ on June 05, 2019, 05:43:10 pm
Is this dead
I was meant to finish my essay now that you mention it.
do it pussy
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: McPero on June 13, 2019, 01:17:19 am
Again I don't mind voting on a date, but then TOG serves absolutely no purpose because if they're not mandating the dates then it's just an organisation who bullied McPero out of hosting a tournament because he had his own date (and format)- oh wait but now we can do that ourselves.
No you got it all wrong I bullied TOG into changing their system by pretending to want to host a tournament. And then John Price the '1v10ed' just continued my job of keeping them in check. I don't believe I've ever thanked him for that. Thank you John your a good lad.

Is this dead
I was meant to finish my essay now that you mention it.
do it pussy
Legend has it he is still writing that essay.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Snowwi on June 18, 2019, 05:09:19 am
Is this dead
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Woeski on June 19, 2019, 08:33:52 pm
Not completely.
Title: Re: 2019 is for me the end of NW
Post by: Stark99 on June 20, 2019, 03:54:07 am
rip