The General Political Thread

[Toffee]

You don't understand because you can't see how ridiculous your argument is. A clump of cells is not a human baby. That's the point I'm making.

Some people will probably die as a result of legal abortions. But the key to the statistics I've given is the reason for them. The illegal complications are a result of using unsafe procedures and unqualified doctors. That is what happens when you don't have adequate abortion care, the reason for that inadequacy can be either restrictive laws or poor healthcare structure but the result is the same; women don't receive the care that they need because abortions are not properly supported. That's why good and qualified abortion procedures need to be in place, which they are not in many countries where abortion is illegal.

[Sgt.Winters]

No brain activity occurs within the fetus till its 5th or 6th week, so aborting it beforehand should be fair game. After however, is where you're gonna need a good reason to (health risks and whatnot).

[McPero]

If you are against abortion in first few weeks u should stop mastrubating. You kill billions of potential babies that way.

[McPero]

And the vast majority of illegal abortions will be carried out by doctors in hospitals anyway.

Yeah you clearly have no idea what is happening in South America. Most illegal abortions are performed by amateurs looking to make money of young whamen that were so smart.

[Furrnox]

Is a day after pill murder?

[Vincenzo]

Are you a woman that is pregnant? no? then you should not have an opinion on abortion, it's their business.

Someone here said that some SJW/Feminists are proud of their abortions, I call bullshit on that, perhaps there is some exceptional idiot or something but an abortion is absolute no fun. extremely painfull and hurtfull not mentioning the mental effects on the person(s) involved.

THe whole point of legalised abortion is that there is a safe way for people to make a choice, instead of a bad way.

For instance in the country where I live (Poland) abortion is absolutely forbidden, so hundreds of thousands of woman travel to other countries germany or czech republic to get one, if they have the money, if they don't have the money, especially in bad places then they have to resort to medieval methods, that more often then not are absolutely killing or more often mutilating for life..

People don't take such decisions lightly, but sometimes due to life it is the only option.

Whatever you do in this discussion, don't take religion into the argument, forcing anyones believe on someone else is insane.

[StevenChilton]

Are you a woman that is pregnant? no? then you should not have an opinion on abortion, it's their business.

That's a very silly comment. Unless you want to go 'full Canada' and allow a woman to have an abortion at any stage in the pregnancy then we've already accepted that it's not simply their business and there are limits in place.

Whatever you do in this discussion, don't take religion into the argument, forcing anyones believe on someone else is insane.

I'm an atheist but you've already brought religion into this discussion, i.e. the religion of selfism. Abortion in 98% of circumstances is a selfish act and in order to justify it you're duhamanising a human fetus so that it can be killed without it affecting your conscience. Just admit it.

For instance in the country where I live (Poland) abortion is absolutely forbidden, so hundreds of thousands of woman travel to other countries germany or czech republic to get one, if they have the money, if they don't have the money, especially in bad places then they have to resort to medieval methods, that more often then not are absolutely killing or more often mutilating for life..

That's because Polish traditional family values were deliberately attacked and desecrated by the Communists, who quickly implemented easy access to abortion when they seized power. Polish culture is still trying to get back to where it was pre-1945. Leaving aside that 'hundreds of thousands' is a very high estimate (others think as low as 10,000 per year), if they maintain a hardline on abortion I fully expect rates will radically decline to very low levels. Poland is still in an adjustment period.

[McPero]

He said nothing about abortion at any point of pregnancy. Thing is it is nice for a woman to ask the father for his opinion but it is completely her choice in the first few weeks of pregnancy. But yes there are limits and its abortion before fetus becomes a proper baby.

How is abortion 98% of the time selfish act? Never thought they don't want to have a baby because the baby would suffer growing up and grow up into a broken human. It is not like we have an issue with overpopulation already better give birth to every mistake. Remember on a certain level we are no different to a rock just a bunch of atoms bonded together, we don't have a soul as much as rock doesn't have it.

By what logic will illegal abortion radically decline? Decline mayne yes but not fast.

[DaMonkey]

Nice conjecture everyone, once again my expectations have been met in full.

If you are against abortion in first few weeks u should stop mastrubating. You kill billions of potential babies that way.

You say that as if masturbation isn't also repugnant.

[Piercee]

Masturbation is degenerate.

[Toffee]

Nice conjecture everyone, once again my expectations have been met in full.

If you are against abortion in first few weeks u should stop mastrubating. You kill billions of potential babies that way.

You say that as if masturbation isn't also repugnant.

Holy shit stop acting like you think you're better than everyone else

[Duuring]

Alright, I was away for the weekend, so let me make my argument now.

First of all, the classic argument against abortion is that it is, in fact, murder; the act of killing another human being. Murder is different from killing based on the legal principle that a human is something different from all other life on earth. One can argue that it is wrong to kill the unborn baby (let's call it a baby even if it's just a few cells, wouldn't want to be compared to ISIS again) even if we don't classify it as murder, but then you must object to the taking of all life. Killing is not illegal by law, and if it is, it is because of other reasons than the simple fact the entity is entiteled to life; I can't shoot someone's dog because it is his property, but I can shoot my own. I can't shoot an elephant if it's protected for wildlife preservation reasons, but I can shoot one if I get a permit.

So, if we use the argument that abortion should be illegal because it is murder, that means we are in fact saying the unborn baby or entity is a human being from the moment it is a single cell in the woman's womb. That means that it ought to be protected by law against harm, the same way the law protects all humans. That means that if I were to shoot a woman carrying a baby (again, even if it's a single cell), I'd have to be convicted of a double, not a single murder. But that also means that a mother who endangers her baby by, for example, smoking or drinking alcohol, should be charged with child abuse. None of these things we do. A human being is not a human being in the eyes of the law until it is born. We count age from the day one is born, not the day the cell settles in the womb. If person A and person B are conceived on the same day, but person A is born after eight months and person B after nine, they should legally be considered to be the same age because they started being a human at the exact same time, and the moment they leave the womb should be considered irrelevant.

Yes I believe a human fetus is human life (what could it be otherwise?)

So is it entitled to human legal rights as if it were a born person, yes or no? 

[Sgt.Winters]

South Africa ain't lookin so good 

[StevenChilton]

That means that if I were to shoot a woman carrying a baby (again, even if it's a single cell), I'd have to be convicted of a double, not a single murder. But that also means that a mother who endangers her baby by, for example, smoking or drinking alcohol, should be charged with child abuse. None of these things we do. A human being is not a human being in the eyes of the law until it is born.

That depends upon the legal jurisdiction. A number of countries and US States treat the murder of a pregnant woman as double homicide. The UK also has laws on 'child destruction' which can punish people who kill babies in the womb with life sentences but it's really messy. As to child abuse re: drinking/smoking while pregnant it's a grey area. I know a number of US states have debated passing laws on them. I personally would ban smoking while pregnant given the serious dangers involved.

Yes I believe a human fetus is human life (what could it be otherwise?)

So is it entitled to human legal rights as if it were a born person, yes or no? 

In my opinion, yes. That means life sentences for those who cause miscarriages via assault on pregnant women and so on.

[DaMonkey]

Nice conjecture everyone, once again my expectations have been met in full.

If you are against abortion in first few weeks u should stop mastrubating. You kill billions of potential babies that way.

You say that as if masturbation isn't also repugnant.

Holy shit stop acting like you think you're better than everyone else

I'm not trying to appear better than anyone else. I'm just pointing out that it's something people do for momentary pleasure and I am sure most people would rather have an intimate partner than have to "make do" with... themselves.

But that also means that a mother who endangers her baby by, for example, smoking or drinking alcohol, should be charged with child abuse.

I mean... yeah. The information is pretty available, most everyone should know neither of those things lead to good results when the child is born.