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They didn't want to lose influence so they started a war causing public opinion of Russia to take a steep dive and public support for joining NATO going up? And what influence to begin with? Russia has no soft power, like I said.
Your claim is Russian goverment is just evil and wants to hurt Ukraine for no reason just because Russia is a meany or what?
Half of Ukraine likes Russia the other side hates it
Quote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:17:25 pmQuote from: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:08:34 pmQuote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:05:56 pmQuote from: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:02:45 pmQuote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:02:05 pmYou seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughableGive me one example the way you both try and defend Russia in the Ukraine as though you can’t see that you’ve invaded a country undemocratocally and illegallyI am not defending Russia for invading Ukraine. And what the fuck is undemocratic invasion lol? Perhaps May bombing Syria without approval of Parliament? Every invasion is illegal so here your argument proven wrong. Oh and me or Council since we are apparently one person now didn't invade anyone, im not even Russian.There is your whataboutism again. I didn’t agree with the bombing of Syria either but you defend Russia all the time, avoiding levying any actual criticism against a dictatorship.What whataboutism wtf? I just wasnt sure what undemocratic invasion is,point of that wasnt saying hey UK is actually undemocratically invading people. I dont defend Russia all the time you are delusional.
Quote from: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:08:34 pmQuote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:05:56 pmQuote from: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:02:45 pmQuote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:02:05 pmYou seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughableGive me one example the way you both try and defend Russia in the Ukraine as though you can’t see that you’ve invaded a country undemocratocally and illegallyI am not defending Russia for invading Ukraine. And what the fuck is undemocratic invasion lol? Perhaps May bombing Syria without approval of Parliament? Every invasion is illegal so here your argument proven wrong. Oh and me or Council since we are apparently one person now didn't invade anyone, im not even Russian.There is your whataboutism again. I didn’t agree with the bombing of Syria either but you defend Russia all the time, avoiding levying any actual criticism against a dictatorship.
Quote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:05:56 pmQuote from: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:02:45 pmQuote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:02:05 pmYou seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughableGive me one example the way you both try and defend Russia in the Ukraine as though you can’t see that you’ve invaded a country undemocratocally and illegallyI am not defending Russia for invading Ukraine. And what the fuck is undemocratic invasion lol? Perhaps May bombing Syria without approval of Parliament? Every invasion is illegal so here your argument proven wrong. Oh and me or Council since we are apparently one person now didn't invade anyone, im not even Russian.
Quote from: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:02:45 pmQuote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:02:05 pmYou seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughableGive me one example the way you both try and defend Russia in the Ukraine as though you can’t see that you’ve invaded a country undemocratocally and illegally
Quote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:02:05 pmYou seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughableGive me one example
You seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughable
QuoteYour claim is Russian goverment is just evil and wants to hurt Ukraine for no reason just because Russia is a meany or what? No? QuoteHalf of Ukraine likes Russia the other side hates itWrong.
Quote from: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:19:44 pmQuote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:17:25 pmQuote from: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:08:34 pmQuote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:05:56 pmQuote from: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:02:45 pmQuote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:02:05 pmYou seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughableGive me one example the way you both try and defend Russia in the Ukraine as though you can’t see that you’ve invaded a country undemocratocally and illegallyI am not defending Russia for invading Ukraine. And what the fuck is undemocratic invasion lol? Perhaps May bombing Syria without approval of Parliament? Every invasion is illegal so here your argument proven wrong. Oh and me or Council since we are apparently one person now didn't invade anyone, im not even Russian.There is your whataboutism again. I didn’t agree with the bombing of Syria either but you defend Russia all the time, avoiding levying any actual criticism against a dictatorship.What whataboutism wtf? I just wasnt sure what undemocratic invasion is,point of that wasnt saying hey UK is actually undemocratically invading people. I dont defend Russia all the time you are delusional.You were literally trying your best to defend them against NATO whilst talking to Duuring before you managed to unravel your own argument...
You’ve been trying to justify their actions for this entire discussion, saying that they only want to play be same game as the US and they only fear for their own security. Any excuse
Quote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 07:26:50 pmYou’ve been trying to justify their actions for this entire discussion, saying that they only want to play be same game as the US and they only fear for their own security. Any excuseYeah those two reasons dont justfy their invasion of Ukraine?
You first said it was because they felt threatened by NATO, then you said they didn't but wanted to keep their influence and then you admitted Russia had no influence in Ukraine to start with, but rather was trying to make sure Ukraine didn't join NATO - although you just said NATO wasn't a threat to Russia. We've gone full circle.I'm somewhat amused.
Quote from: McPero on May 05, 2018, 08:33:31 pmQuote from: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 07:26:50 pmYou’ve been trying to justify their actions for this entire discussion, saying that they only want to play be same game as the US and they only fear for their own security. Any excuseYeah those two reasons dont justfy their invasion of Ukraine?No they don’t
So you agree with us Russia should return Crimea and cease supporting its vassal states in eastern Ukraine? Now we're getting somewhere.
Quote from: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 09:06:30 pmSo you agree with us Russia should return Crimea and cease supporting its vassal states in eastern Ukraine? Now we're getting somewhere.I agree Russia should fuck off from Ukraine and do another referendum in Crimea about being in Russia or Ukraine. Maybe referendum even in other parts (those in east). Referendums being watched by Russia, Ukraine, USA, Switzerland/Austria.
