The General Political Thread

[Toffee]

A referendum that happened after you sent the troops you mean? You invaded a country because you wanted it's territory. You have no right to enter a country without permission i.e invade

[Conway]

A referendum that happened after you sent the troops you mean? You invaded a country because you wanted it's territory. You have no right to enter a country without permission i.e invade

Honestly by the logic given, the EU should have invaded Britain to ensure there was no "disruption" in the Brexit vote. I wonder if he really believes Russian troops would have left had the "referendum" turned out against Russia.

[Theodin]

That was a fascinating discussion

[Edwin]

Yeah, we should have gotten some Russians in here years ago

[StevenChilton]

Lol, Britain is leaving the EU and the Dutch are going to pay for it.



I look forward to Merkel, with Macron just behind her, walking over Amsterdam and making them pay up. It's quite clever how the Germans have managed to get other people to finance their empire.

[Gojkov]

You invaded a country because you wanted it's territory. You have no right to enter a country without permission i.e invade

He didn't invade anything, he's from Norway not Russia. And as you can see his nickname is "Norwegian" not "Russian".

You have no right to enter a country without permission i.e invade

I'm glad you see it that way. So what are UK troops doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? Iraq and Afghanistan definitely didn't call UK or any NATO troops for help, yet they're there, "bringing democracy". A nation has a right to choose what kind of state they want to live in, what laws they want to put upon their society.

As previously said, Crimea was Russian territory since 1783 until 1954. People living there declare themselves Russian (yes 67% which is still a majority), 98% of the population voted to join Russian Federetion on the referendum. Now you're saying how only the Russians voted on it, did you count them personally or did BBC tell you what to think?

Honestly by the logic given, the EU should have invaded Britain to ensure there was no "disruption" in the Brexit vote. I wonder if he really believes Russian troops would have left had the "referendum" turned out against Russia.

Britain's vote for exiting an organisation such as the EU is a completely different thing, as you know EU is not a country. Russian troops didn't come to Crimea, they were already there, they've had a military naval base on Crimea since 1783 and yes even when Ukraine declared independence, Russian troops still kept a base there in agreement with Ukrainian government, until 2014.

[Toffee]

And the UK involvement in Iraq was wrong? Does that make Russia’s involvement in the Ukraine right? No. By your logic Britain has a right to take back India since they were in the empire less than 100 years ago. 98% is a suspiciously high result for any referendum, especially when the number of actual Russians in the territory is so low. You’re deluded trying to Justify Russian aggression against countries who want to govern themselves.

[Duuring]

#BridgeToCrimea2035

[Gojkov]

Nobody's talking about logic here, we're talking about politics. You can keep twisting my words but you most certainly got my point even if you don't want to show it in your posts.

Comparing India to Crimea shows how much you actually know on both topics, which is only what is written on wikipedia (at best). Yes, UK's involvement in Iraq was wrong, as in Ireland (whole Ireland), Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Lybia etc. If a referendum passed with 98% of votes on one side that means that the population wants or agrees with something strongly. Would it make you feel better if it was 60% for joining RF and 40% against?

Crimea was never a Russian colony like India was England's, Russians are not there to exploit the population, they're on Crimea because Crimea is inhabited by Russians. Number of 67% is a majority and this data we're using is from 2014 (according to your precious wiki), so old news.

[Toffee]

Jesus Christ this is hilarious. You actually would go anywhere to justify Putin’s actions. You made the point that Crimea was a part of the Russian empire, so I showed why that was a bullshit line of argument. Just because you’re not there to exploit the population that doesn’t mean you didn’t take over. The referendum was declared invalid by the UN and the fact that Russian troops were there (and they weren’t just there because of the naval base so stop chatting shit) makes the results questionable anyhow. I’m not waiting for my daily dose of whataboutism

[Gojkov]

Jesus Christ this is hilarious. You actually would go anywhere to justify Putin’s actions. You made the point that Crimea was a part of the Russian empire, so I showed why that was a bullshit line of argument. Just because you’re not there to exploit the population that doesn’t mean you didn’t take over. The referendum was declared invalid by the UN and the fact that Russian troops were there (and they weren’t just there because of the naval base so stop chatting shit) makes the results questionable anyhow. I’m not waiting for my daily dose of whataboutism

This is a discussion topic, if you're not mentally capable of hearing a different point of view then I suggest you stop frustrating yourself by posting/reading this topic. Putin is irrelevant, I'm not defending anyone.

If you're against something you might want to make sure to get to know more about it before you jump to conclusions your local media give you. So here's another suggestion, two lovely books to get you started: Neil Kent, Crimea: A History, great book by a knowledgeable Cambridge professor and Robert K. Massie, Cathrine the Great, an American historian (since you're close-minded and refuse to trust any source unless its written by a native english speaker). Even though I'm sure you'll never even google those books there's still hope that you'll read at least a few pages of any book about anything.

Have a nice day

[Toffee]

Ahahaha completely changed the subject without even replying to any of my points. Has a go at me for not facilitating your POV and then uses a bunch of ad hominems.

[Norwegian13]

A referendum that happened after you sent the troops you mean? You invaded a country because you wanted it's territory. You have no right to enter a country without permission i.e invade

Neither did NATO when they invaded Yugoslavia, as well as tore away a core part of Serbia (Kosovo). Oh and, unlike NATO, Russians didn't kill a single soul in Crimea AND there was a referendum where the people got to decide if they wished to rejoin Russia or stay with Ukraine. This is something that was absent in Kosovo, yet in your mind somehow Kosovo becoming independent is more legitimate than Crimea re-joining Russia.  Russian troops that were on guard in Crimea were simply ensuring that no provocations would come from the Ukrainian extremists who would most certaintly try their best to disrupt the referendum. The Russian troops were simply ensuring safety for everyone who was voting.

Also, the vote is very much legitimate. I have spoken to many people who live in Crimea, and they are all very happy that they have rejoined the Russian Federation. I also know people who have travelled to Crimea, and everyone is very much enjoying the fact that they have once again rejoined the Russian Federation. Of course, you won't believe me because you've been brainwashed too much, but I would invite you to go down to Crimea and see for yourself.

I would suggest you watch this documentary (Crimea. The way back home) to get a good understanding of how Crimea rejoined Russia. It has English subtitles, so you'll manage.



In regards to what you are saying to Gojkov, the results are not questionable at all. Crimea has a majority of Russians living on there, and it is and always has been Russian territory. The ONLY reason that Crimea was transferred to Ukraine back in 1954 was because Khrushchev was Ukrainian and he loved his homeland so much that he for some reason decided to transfer Crimea from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SFSR. If you would like to, I can get you in contact with a Crimean guy, and he can explain to you why he voted to join Russia and how he didn't feel threatened by the Russian troops present in Crimea at all. Oh and, there have also been Western reporters that have been on the streets of Crimea, talking to the local populace and most of them are happy and content with being part of Russia again.

[Gojkov]

That was made by a Russian TV channel and therefore cannot be trusted. Do you really think he's going to spend 2 hours and 25 minutes just to hear a different point of view?

[Toffee]

Whataboutism again Norwegian. The Russian troops had no legal right to be in the Crimea (except for the naval base). You’ve spoken to many people is such a vague term without much evidence to back it up or a good reflector of overall opinion. The vote was declared invalid by the UN, but of course Russia doesn’t care about that. The media is pretty tightly controlled in Russia so I’d be surprised to find a documentary that was against the takeover tbh.