The General Political Thread

[Riddlez]

from what I understood, the 5.56 is more like to punch thourgh something and something thicker than the 9mm, but if the 9mm does, it will cause more damage if it hits someone.

[TheBoberton]

You've probably got the right on that one.

I am by no means any kind of expert on ballistics.

[Piercee]

Bullets that stay in the body are the most deadly, if it'd pass right through then it's easier to take care of.

[Riddlez]

Yup and 9mm are renowned for a lot of stopping power for its size.
Then again, 5.56 are mean basterds as well. Usually they start spinning when they hit a body, though not as mean as othe types of bullets.

7.62's just punch big holes and is the best suitable for long range precision shooting.

[DaMonkey]

I mean... I was in Salt Lake City this summer and went to the range.
I could, as a foreigner, buy any rifle or pistol I wanted. No background checks involved, I didn't even need to register myself.

No you couldn't have. Renting a gun for use on the range is not purchasing it to take home. Additionally, all the people recently posting in this thread about the lack of background checks just go to show why gun owners are so vehemently against you, because you know positively nothing about the laws pertaining to gun procurement nor how they actually work. This last sentence isn't directed to you directly.

7.62's just punch big holes and is the best suitable for long range precision shooting.

If that were the case the Russians would not have adopted a new caliber for their small arms more akin to the 5.56x45 NATO.

Yes it states that people have the right to bear arms. It also precursors that by talking about a regulated militia. Evidently that is quite outdated at the minute so using it as a reason not to regulate high powered rifles/ magazines etc is a bad argument.

The fact the Federal Government now has a massive, standing army - no longer relying on militias - does not make the Second Ammendment defunct. The Ammendment states that the free citizenry must be allowed to possess adequate arms as it is important for the States, not the Federal government, to be able to raise its own well armed militia should the threat arise from either without or within the Nation.

[Toffee]

You seriously think states are gonna raise a militia in 2017?
And I've read that only federal law requires background checks for liscensed sale but not for private sales. Only nine states have universal background checks

[Piercee]

The standard 5.56x45 round with the 62 grain steel core projectile masses about 200 grams.  The standard 7.62x51 round with a 147 grain projectile masses about twice that.  A 10kG loadout of 5.56 is about 660 rounds.  10kG of 7.62 is about 280 rounds (including magazines).  So, logistically, you can transport MORE than twice the number of 5.56 rounds for the same weight.

The 7.62 is, without a doubt, more lethal.  Double?  How do you quantify that?

Accuracy at <300 meters is about equal.  Beyond 300 meters, the 7.62 is superior.

Don't have any information regarding cookoff, but I'd imagine they're similar.

The 5.56 is considerably less expensive per cartridge - to the tune of about half the cost of 7.62 or less.


TLDR, 7.62 is more lethal and better on long range than the 5.56 but requires more effort for logistics to transport, also it's more expensive.

[Toffee]

Also if background checks are adequate then how did a mentally ill bloke get hold of those guns?

[DaMonkey]

5.56 and the new Russian 5.45 holds its velocity better, and the rounds advantages (distilled down can just be "you can have much more of it") make it the superior general purpose military round. The age of the battle rifle, with its full-powered cartridges, has passed and has been surpassed by the age of the assault rifle with its intermediate cartridge. Warfare has not been based around the precise shooting at individual targets for some time now; rather, it is now based on saturating an area with suppressing fire while other elements maneuver.

My statement on the rounds were based around this more military reasoning for the cartridges, and I now realize that we probably weren't talking about it in that regard - my apologies.

Also if background checks are adequate then how did a mentally ill bloke get hold of those guns?

Probably because the check didn't find anything incriminating. Also let's not be disingenuous about what I said. I was correcting everyone saying that there are no background checks, which is categorically false; rather or not they are adequate is a different story.

[Theodin]

You seriously think states are gonna raise a militia in 2017?
And I've read that only federal law requires background checks for liscensed sale but not for private sales. Only nine states have universal background checks

The states could easily raise militias, whether it be some form of the states national guard, a combination of ex-police/military, or just concerned citizens.
There are close to 300 million legal guns in the US - if a situation arose where it was needed for any state to raise a militia they could do it, and most probably would, too

[Toffee]

Well if the check didn't find anything incriminating then it was a damn shitty check. You came in patronising people for not knowing gun laws. Don't try and frame it as though you were only pointing out that there are already background checks because, in some cases there aren't.

Theodin, genuine question. Would it be legal?

[BabyJesus]

You seriously think states are gonna raise a militia in 2017?
And I've read that only federal law requires background checks for liscensed sale but not for private sales. Only nine states have universal background checks

Michigan has a militia. Its pretty small. Only a couple hundred people are active, with more as reserves.

Also if background checks are adequate then how did a mentally ill bloke get hold of those guns?

Sometimes people show no signs of mental illness and have no previous symptoms. As someone who actually believes in background checks, they can only do so much

[TheBoberton]

A number of states have state defense forces, which fall under the heading "militia"

Well if the check didn't find anything incriminating then it was a damn shitty check. You came in patronising people for not knowing gun laws. Don't try and frame it as though you were only pointing out that there are already background checks because, in some cases there aren't.

What do you propose they do, open the person's skull and read their brain? We can only judge people based on what they show us, in what they say and do, and it's quite possible for someone to be completely normal until they're not.

[Toffee]

Ah right okay. Though that isn't a very good argument against some restrictions because of its unlikely to happen.

I've read that none of the background checks he went through involved his mental health but I don't know if that's true

[TheBoberton]

Every background check involves your mental health. That's one of the items they specifically check.