The General Political Thread

[Duuring]

Either way, this referendum is not going to legitimize the independence declaration. It's impossible to tell who will be able to vote and who won't, and no-voters will likely boycot it anyway, just like they did in 2014. The result is going to be something like 85.3% in favour of independence with 43.3% turnout.

I'm just hoping nobody gets hurt, because tensions are pretty high and the Spanish government is not fucking around.

[StevenChilton]

Grim scenes coming out of Catalonia-riot police beating people trying to vote, including old women. Yet another massive own goal from Madrid and independence is looking increasingly inevitable...

[Toffee]

It's not inevitable. Illegal votes won't hold up with anyone

[Duuring]

Grim scenes coming out of Catalonia-riot police beating people trying to vote, including old women. Yet another massive own goal from Madrid and independence is looking increasingly inevitable...

Then again, what should they do? Like it or not, the Spanish government is working within its legal power, the Catalonian regional government isn't. That's something too many people easily forget.

[Toffee]

Torres caving in regards to tuition fees. Not as far as labour but they're not gonna raise them any further and have raised the repayment threshold to 25 grand.

[McPero]

Results for the Iraqi Kurdistan referendum are in 93% yes for independece.

Now let's get ready for another illegal referendum tomorrow bois!

I recognise Kurdistan referendum legal. Iraq couldn't protect them from ISIS so these people are free to make their own laws. Catalonian one is illegal, selfish bastards.

[Toffee]

That's not how law works mcpero

[StevenChilton]

Grim scenes coming out of Catalonia-riot police beating people trying to vote, including old women. Yet another massive own goal from Madrid and independence is looking increasingly inevitable...

Then again, what should they do? Like it or not, the Spanish government is working within its legal power, the Catalonian regional government isn't. That's something too many people easily forget.

Obviously they should have restricted themselves to simply shutting down websites, encouraging 'No' voters to boycott the vote and refuse to recognise the outcome. Smacking people over the head with police batons and seizing ballot boxes from polling stations looks awful. These scenes are so counter-productive I can't believe Madrid is so stupid. They've created a legitimate grievance, massively boosted international support for Catalonia and the region is now more determined than ever to secede. Good luck to them.

[Duuring]

I agree completely with that. It doesn't mean that those actions suddenly are illegal though.

[McPero]

That's not how law works mcpero

No but it is how life works. Iraq might be still lawful owner of Kurdistan but nobody will give a shit about that when Kurdistan has huge army and support of Russia (this is blind guess but it makes sense, because Iraq is US colony and Kurdistan would be Russian ally since Russia defeated ISIS) to enforce their referendum. Saying this referendum is illegal is like saying rebel groups in Nazi reich in WW2 were illegal, if you view Nazi Reich occupation as legal (no war declaration on Poland, attacking ally (Kingdom of Yugoslavia)) than they are illegal.

[Toffee]

You can't compare Nazis to the Iraqi government

[Furrnox]

That's not how law works mcpero

No but it is how life works. Iraq might be still lawful owner of Kurdistan but nobody will give a shit about that when Kurdistan has huge army and support of Russia (this is blind guess but it makes sense, because Iraq is US colony and Kurdistan would be Russian ally since Russia defeated ISIS) to enforce their referendum. Saying this referendum is illegal is like saying rebel groups in Nazi reich in WW2 were illegal, if you view Nazi Reich occupation as legal (no war declaration on Poland, attacking ally (Kingdom of Yugoslavia)) than they are illegal.

When the fuck have the Kurds had the support of Russia? If Russia decided to ally itself with Kurdistan it would sour the Russian/Turkey relation that Putin have tried to achieve greatly maybe even making Turkey move towards the west again. He would not take that risk if he knows what's good for him.

[StevenChilton]

I agree completely with that. It doesn't mean that those actions suddenly are illegal though.

Do you mean the actions of the police? Because I think it's increasingly obvious that the Spanish police have broken both Spanish and EU law in Catalonia. It'll be interesting to see if the EU Commission gets involved which it surely ought to. Several EU leaders have already spoken out. You can't bash Poland for a fairly grey issue but not slap down Madrid for something that's clear as day.

As for the voters...well yes, they've broken the law, but so did the Poles/Czechs/East Germans/etc in 1989. It comes down to moral authority and given Catalan separatists keep winning the regional elections on a platform of independence you can't really deny them the vote. Had Madrid allowed a vote to go ahead and love-bombed the region I reckon they'd have won it.

[McPero]

That's not how law works mcpero

No but it is how life works. Iraq might be still lawful owner of Kurdistan but nobody will give a shit about that when Kurdistan has huge army and support of Russia (this is blind guess but it makes sense, because Iraq is US colony and Kurdistan would be Russian ally since Russia defeated ISIS) to enforce their referendum. Saying this referendum is illegal is like saying rebel groups in Nazi reich in WW2 were illegal, if you view Nazi Reich occupation as legal (no war declaration on Poland, attacking ally (Kingdom of Yugoslavia)) than they are illegal.

When the fuck have the Kurds had the support of Russia? If Russia decided to ally itself with Kurdistan it would sour the Russian/Turkey relation that Putin have tried to achieve greatly maybe even making Turkey move towards the west again. He would not take that risk if he knows what's good for him.

Yeah Putin and Erdogan are so such allies they shoot down each other's planes. Erdogan is going away from EU because if Turkey joins EU he can't have as much power over Turkey not because Russia wants to ally Turkey. Turkey and Russia can't be friends because: Syria and Russia are fighting ISIS that is US dog to remove Russia from middle East (Fleet in Syria). Kurds are fighting against ISIS and Turkey joined fights against ISIS only to kill Kurdish rebels saying it was ISIS units. Russia also asked for Kurdistan to be represented in peace talks with US. So yes they are allies. Kurds and Russians just have common enemies Iraq, ISIS.

A bad comparison so I have better one. Saying Kurdish referendum is illegal is like saying Communist Yugoslavia was illegal state because land belonged to Kingdom of Yugoslavia whos king and goverment fled instead of fighting Nazis.

[Piercee]

The Kurds captured all that land fair and square, a civil war is going to be happening there regardless.
Especially with Isis now getting more ground back because the opposing armies pushed so far it offered them the opportunity to flank around and take back provinces they had before.
Kurdistan needs to be a thing as much as the Syrian state should stop being constantly threatened by the West.
YPG are dirty commies though, but then again the Kurds are extremely spread out with different groups and divisions so I wonder how their government will work out.
Hopefully they won't be constantly harassed by Israel though, they like to mingle in affairs that are not theirs by bombing and shelling whilst threatening behind big brother US.
I especially love the relationship between Russia & Syria though, Assad has been portrayed extremely bad by the media with constant lies and propaganda against him over the years, keep in mind that Assad is pretty much the only leader in the Middle East that doesn't hunt down Christians and actively cares about his own people, actually caring about civilian deaths.

FREE SYRIAN STATE
FREE KURDISH STATE