The General Political Thread

[StevenChilton]

The mental health of transsexuals is questionable

That is a massive blanket statement and I really wanna how you got to that conclusion.

I personally believe transsexualism is a mental health issue the same way anorexia is. Effective treatment for these delusions does not mean affirming them with sex-change surgery or whatnot because the patient will never be satisfied, the same way an anorexic will always think they're fat no matter how thin they get.

According to the studies I've read transsexuals who undergo surgery are 20 times more likely than the general population to commit suicide. For transsexuals who don't undergo surgery it's 10 times more likely. This would lead to the conclusion that a) surgery is not an effective treatment, and b) this is fundamentally a mental illness and those more mentally disturbed than others who have gone so far as to seek surgery are more likely to commit suicide.

When it comes to children and transsexualism I think making them undergo treatment is child abuse. Again the studies I've read suggest that 70-80% of children with transsexual feelings and gender confusion stop being confused by the time they're adults. Knowing that I think any doctor who administers puberty delaying drugs to a confused child is guilty of child abuse.

I think the suicide rates also suggest this is a case of people being mentally disturbed. For LGB people the suicide rate is four times greater than average, and for transsexuals it's 10 times more (and for those who undergo surgery it's 20x). It can't all be down to discrimination given the massive gap between LGB and transsexuals.   

[Riddlez]

Linking suicide to mental illness is vastly overgeneralising. Yes, being suicidal is a mentall illness, since in the DSM 5 a prerequisite for any mental disorder is it hindering you fullfilling your day-to-day lives (this is why fetishes are not a mental disorder, they only become so as soon as fetishists cannot reach orgasm without involving their fetish). People who are suicidal are depressed, this cuases them not to function. The cause of the depression is irrelevant in the diagnose.

Linking increased suicide rates under transgenders and LGB is correlation, there is no causation whatsoever.
In the Netherlands, students have a significantly increased chance to kill themselves. By your logic Dutch students are mentally ill.

Transgenders who did not yet undergo treatment can get depressed and it usually happens, this is because of they can't be who they feel they can be which leads to depression.
The reason people who did undergo surgery face a disproportionate amount of discrimination and social exclusion, which leads to depression very fast.


As I said, anyone who is mentally and emotionally stable is allowed to serve and should be allowed to serve. If there are transgenders, queers or travestites, who are emotionally stable and fit to serve, why should they be declined just because they are what they are? Being transgender isn't any more of a mental disorder than beign gay, and I hope to god that we've moved past that point by now.

When it comes to children and transsexualism I think making them undergo treatment is child abuse. Again the studies I've read suggest that 70-80% of children with transsexual feelings and gender confusion stop being confused by the time they're adults. Knowing that I think any doctor who administers puberty delaying drugs to a confused child is guilty of child abuse.

This is a tricky point. Doctors know the statistics. I am not aware of other EU countries but here, Doctors will strongly advise against gender reassignment treatment with underage children. This doesn't mean they can refuse. And your case of child abuse doesn't really fly, considering people have medical self-determination at a younger age than other areas to which the term child abuse applies.

[Riddlez]

Hmm, interesting... it has never been taught me any differently than as I explained. I will look into it.

[StevenChilton]

Wtf Riddlez I pointed that out to you loads of times lol.

[Karth]

Trans people are mentally ill and clearly unfit to serve in the military. Suicide attempt rates in the trans community is around 40% verses 3% in the population as a whole. I'm sure medical professionals on this thread will back me up given the World Health Organisation lists transsexualism as a gender identity disorder in its current edition of International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD-10): http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2016/en#/F60-F69

These people need medical help rather than being encouraged to stay ill. That is all.

Steven you're back to talking utter shit again.
The ICD is purely a method by which peoples' overall condition is described, including social situation (where under sexuality). If you haven't noticed, just a little further down the page fetishism and voyeurism are described, but I don't feel that anyone here would classify people with those particular sexual interests as mentally ill.
You're not encouraging them to stay "ill" by allowing them to serve in the armed forces, nor can any "medical help" short of surgery impact them. If you recall we stopped the whole "gay conversion" thing a while ago when we realised it was torture and (like torture) achieved nothing.

There is no evidence that transgender individuals have any "weakness" in them any more than any other soldier. You're making baseless claims that they are "not much use in combat". I'm curious as to where you're getting that from, as it sounds like a personal anecdote, but I somehow doubt that.

Moving on, even if it were a mental health condition, you're essentially saying that nobody with a mental health problem may serve in the military, regardless of impact on performance.
What about everyone who's depressed? What about people with dysthymia? What about low mood? You're going to exclude 90% of all military applicants if you go down that road.

I would also like to see sources that are showing 'weaknesses' of transgenders in the military.  Although I will say there are obviously enough sources for weaknesses with women in combat roles, that I would say are more important to look at than the transgender issue. 
Lol I remember taking the TAPAS test at MEPS my first time, its like a personality test (easy to pass) that have questions like which parent do you prefer, mother or father?, do you excel more than your peers?, etc... But yea besides that much else psychologically that evaluates new recruits

[Theodin]

So what're your thoughts on the ban Karth?

[Karth]

So what're your thoughts on the ban Karth?

I think it's wrong, this is a full ban on transgender, forget combat roles, but if any American wants to serve their country they should be given that opportunity (as long as they pass the obvious physical and other requirements).  That said I'm not knowledgable on people who identify as transgender and I think the ban was geared more towards the government not being able to pay for transgender military personnel healthcare costs..

[Riddlez]

I think the ban was geared more towards the government not being able to pay for transgender military personnel healthcare costs..

Which would be ridiculous... the government paying for what, strictly speaking, wouldn't be a completely nessecary investment for the employability of the military person. That said, it is such a negligible sum of money... if it helps these people, why not? one could argue. I personally don't. Pay for it yourself.

I was curious how the Dutch military handles cases like this, as all treatments covered by the military are listed. It says nothing specifically about gender reassignment but I did find something on plastic surgery... which states that treatments coming forth from personaly preference will not be covered. They basically say that they'll only perform plastic surgery on victoms of maiming and mutilation, which isn't really a major suprise for military personnel.

[StevenChilton]

This map cracks me up, 'highest per capita computer manufacturing output' is the most awesome thing about Idaho apparently.

[joer5835]

Careful there Oklahoma and New Mexico, you're outshining the other states with your impressive archievements.

[Edwin]

The union may have taken Arizona's slaves, but it'll never take their sun.

[Karth]

Pennsylvania most hunters, sounds about right (went hunting yesterday with my new Remington lmfao)

[BabyJesus]

Pennsylvania most hunters, sounds about right (went hunting yesterday with my new Remington lmfao)

Michigan hunting>Pennsylvania hunting

[StevenChilton]

Well, well, well...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/31/macron-email-leak-british-military-ties-france-important-flawed/

Personally I'd completely pull of out of co-operation with France and send the troops to Eastern Europe instead. You don't come to London, threaten the British economy, then expect British soldiers to go out of their way to die for your country.

[Toffee]

Is there another source which doesn't require you to sign up to anything to actually read the entire thing?