The General Political Thread

[Edwin]

Trans people are mentally ill and clearly unfit to serve in the military.

Objectively this. People with diseases that make them a liability to other soldiers and themselves have been barred from military service in the past (even people with diabetes type 1, which is the genetic sort), so I see no reason why this specific mental illness should be given a free pass.

This is of course because transgender people are ill, and are a liability to others and themselves - and I honestly approached this topic with an open mind when it first came to prominence. After watching countless interviews with the afflicted (did anyone catch the one with Ben Shapiro on Dr Drew's show? That one was scary!) and looking at the suicide statistics, their illness cannot be disputed.

Speaking of the suicide rates: suicides for transgender people have always been sky high, even in "safe environments" where other people treated the afflicted with the "proper" pronouns and no cases of "transphobia" have been reported.

[StevenChilton]

He didn't actually explicitly say whether he'd trained with transsexuals (would be odd if he did indeed do so since they're fairly rare-for example US military has 2.1 million active and reserve personnel, and estimated to have 11,000 transsexuals among them, which is 0.57%). He didn't say if he'd trained with the Swedish military though so there's still time.

Whatever the case I wouldn't want to fight alongside a transsexual unless I had to, same with women who shouldn't be given combat roles. Should be fairly obvious from even an amateur study of evolutionary biology that the males of mammal species have evolved to do the fighting.

[Toffee]

He did say exactly that Steven. I don't understand how transgender people are a liability to others. Please explain. As I have previously mentioned, this is the exact same as being gay. People being told they're I'll just because they're different. In the past being gay was considered a mental illness which it obviously isn't. It's the same with transgender people.

They're not committing suicide because of they're ill but because they're not receiving the help they need in regards to coming to terms with who they want to be. You can't force someone to be a certain way. Just like you can't force a gay person to be straight, you can't force a transgender person to be comfortable in their gender of birth.

[Riddlez]

Coming back on the Transgender thing:

There are extensive psychological evaluations for every aspiring service member and people cn get re-evaluated during service if their superior sees fit as such (through a process). They check mostly for emotional and mental stability. I imagine it would be rare if a person who wants to or has transitioned to be emotionally stable enough to serve in combat roles let alone be stable enough to go on deployment.

DUring selection, most countries have the requirement that you have to be at the time of applying, be fit to serve 6 months overseas without depency on medicine. This is the part where you lose transgender people. If thye transition in service they won't go on deployment. IF and when those people are suitable for combat again, they can be and sometimes will be.

I do not see a single problem wrong with that. The arguments I have seen pass on the News and on Facebook are all emotional because people are 'afraid' of transgenders and usually just being bigots. The argument of 'it will destroy group cohesion'  is null and void. Tell those soldiers to suck it up and act tough. At worst, transfer the transitioned to another unit. In due time, they will integrate. If a soldier proves himself in the group, anyone will be accepted. Be a pain and you're out, regardless of preference or background.

As for my personal opinion? I think everyone who can and wants to serve The Netherlands, is fit to do so and can pull their weight in the group and does match qualifications and requirements can join and be an asset to my country.
Were I to make it there and I have my own platoon in the future, I'd not think of a transgender differently than anyone else. again, provided they're professionals.

[Toffee]

I'm really confused who fraudbear is talking to. Did I miss a ww2 argument? 😕

[Riddlez]

Because if you were to be going by that standard, then every single European Nation-state from the 30s to the 80s would be fucking socialist.

There are less than a handful nation-states in Europe, the two most notable ones being Italy and Denmark. And as for the latter, yes, they're socialist. So are most North-Western European countries and all of Scandinavia.

[Toffee]

I don't know anything about Dutch politics Riddlez but I've heard the netherlands is socialist? Is that true?

[MrTiki]

Trans people are mentally ill and clearly unfit to serve in the military. Suicide attempt rates in the trans community is around 40% verses 3% in the population as a whole. I'm sure medical professionals on this thread will back me up given the World Health Organisation lists transsexualism as a gender identity disorder in its current edition of International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD-10): http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2016/en#/F60-F69

These people need medical help rather than being encouraged to stay ill. That is all.

Steven you're back to talking utter shit again.
The ICD is purely a method by which peoples' overall condition is described, including social situation (where under sexuality). If you haven't noticed, just a little further down the page fetishism and voyeurism are described, but I don't feel that anyone here would classify people with those particular sexual interests as mentally ill.
You're not encouraging them to stay "ill" by allowing them to serve in the armed forces, nor can any "medical help" short of surgery impact them. If you recall we stopped the whole "gay conversion" thing a while ago when we realised it was torture and (like torture) achieved nothing.

There is no evidence that transgender individuals have any "weakness" in them any more than any other soldier. You're making baseless claims that they are "not much use in combat". I'm curious as to where you're getting that from, as it sounds like a personal anecdote, but I somehow doubt that.

Moving on, even if it were a mental health condition, you're essentially saying that nobody with a mental health problem may serve in the military, regardless of impact on performance.
What about everyone who's depressed? What about people with dysthymia? What about low mood? You're going to exclude 90% of all military applicants if you go down that road.

[joer5835]

I don't know anything about Dutch politics Riddlez but I've heard the netherlands is socialist? Is that true?

I'm not entirely sure what counts as 'socialist state' in your books, but I'd argue the Netherlands isn't. Our current government are centre-right, classical liberals and conservatives. We do not have a single payer healthcare system like the UK, instead private insurance companies offer healthcare here. Our welfare system is extensive, but not as much as some of the Scandinavian models. Capitalism reigns supreme, the Netherlands is in fact a tax haven for a lot of international businesses.

[Theodin]

Speaking of health insurance, can anyone explain the Swiss health insurance system to me?

[Toffee]

I don't know anything about Dutch politics Riddlez but I've heard the netherlands is socialist? Is that true?

I'm not entirely sure what counts as 'socialist state' in your books, but I'd argue the Netherlands isn't. Our current government are centre-right, classical liberals and conservatives. We do not have a single payer healthcare system like the UK, instead private insurance companies offer healthcare here. Our welfare system is extensive, but not as much as some of the Scandinavian models. Capitalism reigns supreme, the Netherlands is in fact a tax haven for a lot of international businesses.

Ah fair enough I must be thinking of somewhere else

[Toffee]

What does everyone think about North Korea's latest missile test?

[Edwin]

Capitalism reigns supreme, the Netherlands is in fact a tax haven for a lot of international businesses.

Sounds like a country done right, especially given the hefty tax rates in the rest of Scandinavia.

[Furrnox]

Capitalism reigns supreme, the Netherlands is in fact a tax haven for a lot of international businesses.

Sounds like a country done right, especially given the hefty tax rates in the rest of Scandinavia.

We have a lower corporate tax than the US lel.
Also the US was on the verge of bankruptcy and currently have the largest debt in the history of man.

[Toffee]

I like the way labour want to do things. The thing is that they get slated for taxing corporations too much even though their new plans will still have it at the lowest in the G7