Flying Squirrel Entertainment

The Lounge => Off Topic => Topic started by: Duuring on January 29, 2017, 05:40:36 pm

Title: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 29, 2017, 05:40:36 pm
So, as we already have US Politics and UK Politics threads, and 90% of off-topic activity is on politics anyway, we might as well make this one about the upcoming elections.

March 15 - Dutch General Election. Polling puts Wilders at a win, but followed by current Prime Minister Rutte's (right-wing) Liberals. After that are pretty much all parties polling at anything between 15 to 5 seats, followed by a scatting of new parties wanting to get into parliament. It sure is a mess, and nobody really knows what we'll be waking up to on march the 16th.

April 23 - French Presidentiel Elections. Le Pen. Yeah, this needs no introduction.

11 & 18 June - French parliamentary elections

24 September 2017 - German Federal Elections. To Merkel, or not to Merkel?



I wonder, how many fellow Dutchmen or French and German members of our forum are eligable to vote?



And of course, no political thread is complete without a contest:

One free Custom Title for the period of a week for the non-Dutchman who can accurately guess the number of parties that will be on the Dutch ballot.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on January 29, 2017, 06:12:30 pm
Is Le Pen actually winning in France?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 29, 2017, 06:30:35 pm
Le Pen is extremely likely to gain entry into the second round. What happens next is the real question.

From another thread:

What's the main Dutch centre-right party? I assume it's not Wilders.

Now, it's the VVD, commonly known as the Liberals in english texts which is slighty deceiving. They're a centre-right party, which has more progressive wing, but also a good deal of non-religious conservatives. Between 1977 and 2010, the main centre-right was occupied by the CDA, the Christian-Democrats, who have declined into medium-size. They might make a slight gain in the election.

On the centre-left, I'd argue that we might end up with having no main centre-left party after the election.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 29, 2017, 06:48:36 pm
Though since CDA abandoned their religious main course, they became centre-left.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Brave Sir Charge on January 29, 2017, 06:55:42 pm
I dont know what i'll be voting, I'd like to see defence getting more funding though.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 29, 2017, 08:02:00 pm
You are Dutch, I assume?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 29, 2017, 08:16:08 pm
Though since CDA abandoned their religious main course, they became centre-left.

They're not centre-left. They've been floating around the economical middle for a while now, but as far as social-cultural items go, they're clearly on the right and Buma (their leader) has been taking them on an economical-right-course as well to prepare for the D66-CDA-VVD coalition we are very likely to get.

I dont know what i'll be voting, I'd like to see defence getting more funding though.

Pretty much everybody agrees on that, though.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 29, 2017, 08:36:26 pm
Wilders will win the most seats, no chance of becoming PM though. End result most likely a weak, grand coalition of the left and right headed by Rutte. Or maybe he'll resign post-election and allow a new leader/PM to take over to make coalition negotiations easier. Could be another Dutch election later this year if nobody can form a government which seems like a possible outcome too.

Le Pen? Dunno, depends if the French polls are as wrong as the British and American ones. They might well be, so wouldn't want to make a prediction on that.

As for Germany I think it will have to be a grand coalition between the CDU and SPD again. Can't really see many other options due to rise of AfD and Merkel's declining popularity. Still a while to go though.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on January 29, 2017, 08:41:18 pm
I don't expect much change in Germany, even with the AfD rising.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Brave Sir Charge on January 29, 2017, 08:45:49 pm
You are Dutch, I assume?
Yes :P. All (read: Most) got some valid points. The only politician i somewhat like is Alexander Pechtold.
While writing this i did a test, apparantly D66 and PvdA came up.
I dunno, it feels (and probably is) chosing the lesser evil.

At the end of the day, I'm just a Greenkeeper and they dont have opinions :P
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 29, 2017, 09:27:21 pm
As long as you do vote.  :P

After all, we even have a party for non-voters this year  ::)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on January 30, 2017, 04:54:47 am
Don't we already have a general politics thread?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 30, 2017, 11:20:16 am
Maybe. It's probably on the 2nd page, or in other words, on the other side of the galaxy.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 30, 2017, 12:45:03 pm
I think Pim Fortuyn was the best leader the Netherlands never had-great shame he was assassinated he was better than Wilders. If I were Dutch I'd vote for Baudet.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on January 30, 2017, 01:28:46 pm
The wave of right-wing populism in the world as of late is absolutely disgusting.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BlueMoon_IT on January 30, 2017, 02:28:43 pm
The wave of right-wing populism in the world as of late is absolutely disgusting.
Fuck off Che lover
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 30, 2017, 03:36:59 pm
I think Pim Fortuyn was the best leader the Netherlands never had-great shame he was assassinated he was better than Wilders. If I were Dutch I'd vote for Baudet.

His plans were just as impssible to achieve as Wilder's. And he wasn't a leader. He was just shouting loud enough that the country could hear him, and the people were scared enough to follow him. That's not leadership, that's oppertunism.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on January 30, 2017, 03:37:38 pm
The wave of right-wing populism in the world as of late is absolutely disgusting.
It's a perfectly natural response to the perceived rise of the extreme social and economic left. (So, you)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 30, 2017, 04:44:00 pm
I really hope Merkel will be elected another time, there is no good alternative.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on January 30, 2017, 04:59:48 pm
Remember to support your local ANTIFA group everyone.

note: i deleted the previous comment here because i thought it was kind of dumb.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on January 30, 2017, 05:05:42 pm
Maybe if you started using rational thought in response to knee jerk emotional reaction you'd have more success bringing people to your cause, lol.
The rise of right wing populism is due to the rise of the social democratic left, and it's perceived power in society.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: The Mighty McLovin on January 30, 2017, 05:15:40 pm
I wonder why Merkel hates Germany so much
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on January 30, 2017, 05:17:19 pm
Maybe if you started using rational thought in response to knee jerk emotional reaction you'd have more success bringing people to your cause, lol.
The rise of right wing populism is due to the rise of the social democratic left, and it's perceived power in society.
In my eyes, the rise of right wing populism is based on xenophobia, bigotry and racism. My response is not really a knee jerk reaction, its literally trump in the US, UKIP and others with Brexit and now other european nations. The central theme seems to be to keep out foreigners...

You can say that it's a response to the left and in some ways that may be true but the more likely case is that some folks became scared of people who look different.

I wonder why Merkel hates Germany so much
Maybe because Germany hates Germany.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on January 30, 2017, 06:26:12 pm
I think it's because of the (mostly) misattributed claims of racism, xenophobia, etc. that has contributed to the rise of the alt-right. Insult and ridicule an ideology for not being what you want it to be for long enough and soon it becomes more extreme, solely because you silence it.
But as we're proving, it's a fairly subjective topic
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on January 30, 2017, 11:13:57 pm
Just out of question Theodin, who are you hoping to win the conservative leadership race?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on January 30, 2017, 11:57:46 pm
Just out of question Theodin, who are you hoping to win the conservative leadership race?
I want Harper to raise from the dead and run again :P No honestly I have no clue. I haven't looked into it much, when the race narrows i'll look more closely. Perhaps someone like Michael Chong or Lisa Rait, someone who can grab some of the social vote. While i'm not socially left, I don't think a Conservative can win without being at least socially centre, so as long as whoever wins is socially centre and economically right i'll support them. Meaning i'm not enjoying O'Leary being the favorite, as it's clear he's not a very centrist person. But then again, as I said, i'm not really following it very closely.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cara on January 31, 2017, 12:47:30 am
Not sure there is still a lot of people eligible to vote here  :D

For France, briefly, it will be interesting. Le Pen (despite multiple judicial affairs) will pass the first round, but i'm not that worried, it will be like in 2002 with her father. What is interesting is there is an explosion of the tradtionnal parties : Socialists are weakeaned and heavily divided, Right is showing unity but it's just for the show and the "tchatcher-like" Fillon candidacy is very fragile. As far I see, there is a strong chance that Macron, liberal independant will pass.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on January 31, 2017, 03:57:22 am
I really hope Merkel will be elected another time, there is no good alternative.
....there is an alternative my freund
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2FtHF15%2Fff9b1ca4f7.jpg&hash=27289a2e4943f70c4f4a5559738fc8fb725feef2)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on January 31, 2017, 04:02:31 am
I really hope Merkel will be elected another time, there is no good alternative.
....there is an alternative my freund
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2FtHF15%2Fff9b1ca4f7.jpg&hash=27289a2e4943f70c4f4a5559738fc8fb725feef2)
[close]
Praise kek
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ca/84/1f/ca841fddea0a4777018ed089d9130c09.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 31, 2017, 12:40:22 pm
Not sure there is still a lot of people eligible to vote here  :D

For France, briefly, it will be interesting. Le Pen (despite multiple judicial affairs) will pass the first round, but i'm not that worried, it will be like in 2002 with her father. What is interesting is there is an explosion of the tradtionnal parties : Socialists are weakeaned and heavily divided, Right is showing unity but it's just for the show and the "tchatcher-like" Fillon candidacy is very fragile. As far I see, there is a strong chance that Macron, liberal independant will pass.

Lol, keep your grandmothers hidden Macron is going to be the next President of France.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 31, 2017, 01:27:26 pm
I really hope Merkel will be elected another time, there is no good alternative.
....there is an alternative my freund
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2FtHF15%2Fff9b1ca4f7.jpg&hash=27289a2e4943f70c4f4a5559738fc8fb725feef2)
[close]
Yeah no.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: The Mighty McLovin on January 31, 2017, 06:13:08 pm
It is the only alternative.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BlueMoon_IT on January 31, 2017, 06:19:12 pm
It is the only alternative.
L I T E R A L L Y
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 01, 2017, 12:32:20 am
I think Pim Fortuyn was the best leader the Netherlands never had-great shame he was assassinated he was better than Wilders. If I were Dutch I'd vote for Baudet.

Baudet? What? Why?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Nero_ on February 01, 2017, 09:22:57 am
#stempvv
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 01, 2017, 12:35:18 pm
I think Pim Fortuyn was the best leader the Netherlands never had-great shame he was assassinated he was better than Wilders. If I were Dutch I'd vote for Baudet.

Baudet? What? Why?

Because he's a traditional conservative rather than a radical populist. He strikes me as very able and he also has an intellectual foundation; he's not simple-minded like Trump just spewing out random slogans. I also read his book 'The Significance of Borders' (mainly because it was recommended by Roger Scruton) and I agreed with most of it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Brave Sir Charge on February 01, 2017, 07:37:44 pm
I actually had to google baudet, lel.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on February 01, 2017, 09:40:36 pm
I think Pim Fortuyn was the best leader the Netherlands never had-great shame he was assassinated he was better than Wilders. If I were Dutch I'd vote for Baudet.

Baudet? What? Why?
Everyone that's anti EU is the best.

Btw (if anyone cares) I might run as a muncipial candidate for the liberals in the next Swedish election.
Mainly because my muncipality have been fucked by Socialdemocrats for ages, highest tax rates in all of Sweden yay.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Siwi on February 01, 2017, 10:51:48 pm
The wave of right-wing populism in the world as of late is absolutely disgusting.
Says the communist lol
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on February 01, 2017, 11:43:47 pm
I think Pim Fortuyn was the best leader the Netherlands never had-great shame he was assassinated he was better than Wilders. If I were Dutch I'd vote for Baudet.

Baudet? What? Why?
Everyone that's anti EU is the best.

Btw (if anyone cares) I might run as a muncipial candidate for the liberals in the next Swedish election.
Mainly because my muncipality have been fucked by Socialdemocrats for ages, highest tax rates in all of Sweden yay.
gross...liberals...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 02, 2017, 11:56:24 am
I find it hard to understand that someone from Sweden thinks leaving the EU is a good idea.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Fixou on February 02, 2017, 12:03:58 pm
Not sure there is still a lot of people eligible to vote here  :D

For France, briefly, it will be interesting. Le Pen (despite multiple judicial affairs) will pass the first round, but i'm not that worried, it will be like in 2002 with her father. What is interesting is there is an explosion of the tradtionnal parties : Socialists are weakeaned and heavily divided, Right is showing unity but it's just for the show and the "tchatcher-like" Fillon candidacy is very fragile. As far I see, there is a strong chance that Macron, liberal independant will pass.
Ye Le Pen will pass the first round of course  ::) not the second.
The socialist are really divided i dont think they are going to win.
The right with fillion like you said is very fragile with his problem of justice etc...
Macron can pass yes, maybe i'm worried about his programm about the enterprise and co  :-\
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gi on February 02, 2017, 12:52:45 pm
Maybe if you started using rational thought in response to knee jerk emotional reaction you'd have more success bringing people to your cause, lol.
The rise of right wing populism is due to the rise of the social democratic left, and it's perceived power in society.
In my eyes, the rise of right wing populism is based on xenophobia, bigotry and racism. My response is not really a knee jerk reaction, its literally trump in the US, UKIP and others with Brexit and now other european nations. The central theme seems to be to keep out foreigners...

You can say that it's a response to the left and in some ways that may be true but the more likely case is that some folks became scared of people who look different.

I wonder why Merkel hates Germany so much
Maybe because Germany hates Germany.
It almost seems too easy for leftists to blame racism and bigotry to detract from their own failings.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Dark_Knight on February 02, 2017, 01:26:00 pm
no borders no problems  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on February 02, 2017, 02:02:06 pm
Maybe if you started using rational thought in response to knee jerk emotional reaction you'd have more success bringing people to your cause, lol.
The rise of right wing populism is due to the rise of the social democratic left, and it's perceived power in society.
In my eyes, the rise of right wing populism is based on xenophobia, bigotry and racism. My response is not really a knee jerk reaction, its literally trump in the US, UKIP and others with Brexit and now other european nations. The central theme seems to be to keep out foreigners...

You can say that it's a response to the left and in some ways that may be true but the more likely case is that some folks became scared of people who look different.

I wonder why Merkel hates Germany so much
Maybe because Germany hates Germany.
It almost seems too easy for leftists to blame racism and bigotry to detract from their own failings.
Whose failings exactly? Mine? That of the neo-liberal establishment before trump? SJWs? I'm not a neo-liberal and i don't really identify much with the cause of identity politics (ie: SJWs).
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 02, 2017, 02:05:39 pm
In my eyes, the rise of right wing populism is based on xenophobia, bigotry and racism. My response is not really a knee jerk reaction, its literally trump in the US, UKIP and others with Brexit and now other european nations. The central theme seems to be to keep out foreigners...

You can say that it's a response to the left and in some ways that may be true but the more likely case is that some folks became scared of people who look different.

I think global events have shifted people's political views, not that people just woke up one day thinking "I feel like being a racist today!" ;)

Ironically it's the liberal governments that started the wars that set all the terrorism in motion, and said terrorism helped make more centralist voters lean right. Checkmate, liberals.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on February 02, 2017, 03:13:55 pm
The current political environement and the upcoming elections in my country and some others have just shown how incredibly divided we all are. If one shows support for the left they are made out for communist, SJW or angsty teenager. If one shows support for the right, they are made out to be a racist, bigot and douchebag. Our entire society has now boiled down to an 'us vs them' mentality. And both the left and right are very much guilty of this. It's gonna be an interesting election year, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 02, 2017, 03:36:23 pm
I don't really agree with that notion. There has always been a 'left=commies' and 'right=racist' mentality, which leads to the 'us-versus-them' feeling in politics, but this is relatively on a pretty harmless scale. Politics will always divide us and it isn't, and shouldn't, anything to worry about.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on February 02, 2017, 04:27:28 pm
I remember there were bombings and kidnappings and shootings happening, just 40 years ago in Germany, because of Political "left vs. right" shit.
So, I am guessing it has calmed down a lot since then.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 02, 2017, 04:51:07 pm
I remember there were bombings and kidnappings and shootings happening, just 40 years ago in Germany, because of Political "left vs. right" shit.
So, I am guessing it has calmed down a lot since then.

Eh, how old are you?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 02, 2017, 05:38:15 pm
Maybe if you started using rational thought in response to knee jerk emotional reaction you'd have more success bringing people to your cause, lol.
The rise of right wing populism is due to the rise of the social democratic left, and it's perceived power in society.
In my eyes, the rise of right wing populism is based on xenophobia, bigotry and racism. My response is not really a knee jerk reaction, its literally trump in the US, UKIP and others with Brexit and now other european nations. The central theme seems to be to keep out foreigners...

You can say that it's a response to the left and in some ways that may be true but the more likely case is that some folks became scared of people who look different.

I wonder why Merkel hates Germany so much
Maybe because Germany hates Germany.
It almost seems too easy for leftists to blame racism and bigotry to detract from their own failings.
Whose failings exactly? Mine? That of the neo-liberal establishment before trump? SJWs? I'm not a neo-liberal and i don't really identify much with the cause of identity politics (ie: SJWs).

Hold on there, you just activated my trap card, "Check yourself before you rek yourself". When an opponent tries to distance themselves from identity politics, remind them that they blamed the rise of the populist right on racism and xenophobia, which is basically identity politics.

It also allows me to draw 2 more cards.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 02, 2017, 05:51:36 pm
I don't really agree with that notion. There has always been a 'left=commies' and 'right=racist' mentality, which leads to the 'us-versus-them' feeling in politics, but this is relatively on a pretty harmless scale. Politics will always divide us and it isn't, and shouldn't, anything to worry about.

Yeah it's only these divisions that have led to some of the bloodiest events in history. Nothing to worry about really.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on February 02, 2017, 06:00:19 pm
I remember there were bombings and kidnappings and shootings happening, just 40 years ago in Germany, because of Political "left vs. right" shit.
So, I am guessing it has calmed down a lot since then.

Eh, how old are you?

What role does that play?
All I am saying is, that the political environment is a lot calmer now than it used to be...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 02, 2017, 06:02:27 pm
What a devastating trap card activation from Apoc
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 02, 2017, 06:03:44 pm
I remember there were bombings and kidnappings and shootings happening, just 40 years ago in Germany, because of Political "left vs. right" shit.
So, I am guessing it has calmed down a lot since then.

Eh, how old are you?

What role does that play?
All I am saying is, that the political environment is a lot calmer now than it used to be...

He was more referring to the "I remember" and "JUST 40 years ago"

Almost sounds like you were there or something.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 02, 2017, 06:10:03 pm
What a devastating trap card activation from Apoc

What's funny is the commies don't seem to understand the reason the worker's revolution isn't coming is because they are too busy calling the proletariat racist and xenophobic.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 02, 2017, 06:20:26 pm
I remember there were bombings and kidnappings and shootings happening, just 40 years ago in Germany, because of Political "left vs. right" shit.
So, I am guessing it has calmed down a lot since then.

Eh, how old are you?

What role does that play?
All I am saying is, that the political environment is a lot calmer now than it used to be...

You said you remembered stuff from 40 years ago, didn't think you were that old is all!

Latest polls coming out from Germany show big SPD gains against Merkel-not at all guaranteed she'll remain Chancellor.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on February 02, 2017, 06:24:06 pm
Except the SPD doesn't have a candidate yet. So they would vote for Merkel, even tho she is in a different Party.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Limith on February 02, 2017, 06:27:20 pm
Except the SPD doesn't have a candidate yet. So they would vote for Merkel, even tho she is in a different Party.
hasn't schulz become the official candidate recently? ???
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on February 02, 2017, 06:43:42 pm
Jesus christ, seems Fillon is close to having his own little scandal surrounding him. This is gonna be a rocky year.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on February 02, 2017, 07:45:17 pm
I find it hard to understand that someone from Sweden thinks leaving the EU is a good idea.

I was being ironic.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on February 03, 2017, 02:45:33 pm
Spoiler
Maybe if you started using rational thought in response to knee jerk emotional reaction you'd have more success bringing people to your cause, lol.
The rise of right wing populism is due to the rise of the social democratic left, and it's perceived power in society.
In my eyes, the rise of right wing populism is based on xenophobia, bigotry and racism. My response is not really a knee jerk reaction, its literally trump in the US, UKIP and others with Brexit and now other european nations. The central theme seems to be to keep out foreigners...

You can say that it's a response to the left and in some ways that may be true but the more likely case is that some folks became scared of people who look different.

I wonder why Merkel hates Germany so much
Maybe because Germany hates Germany.
It almost seems too easy for leftists to blame racism and bigotry to detract from their own failings.
Whose failings exactly? Mine? That of the neo-liberal establishment before trump? SJWs? I'm not a neo-liberal and i don't really identify much with the cause of identity politics (ie: SJWs).
[close]

Hold on there, you just activated my trap card, "Check yourself before you rek yourself". When an opponent tries to distance themselves from identity politics, remind them that they blamed the rise of the populist right on racism and xenophobia, which is basically identity politics.

It also allows me to draw 2 more cards.
What i mean by "not identifying much with the cause of identity politics" is that i see it as less important than classism. Even though others may disagree with feminists, the concept of 'privilege' still exists. To what extent it exists is what is debated. I'll use an example, there is a homeless white man and a rich black trans woman, who has more privilege? The rich black trans woman because classism is more important than your identity. This is what i mean when i say that i don't identify as much with identity politics.

However that being said, i'm not going to ignore identity politics when it is relevant, such as the case with Donald Trump. The Muslim ban is racist, it's targeting a specific group of people with a specific religion different to ours. The ban contradicts itself because saudi arabia is mysteriously nowhere to be found on the list (15 of the 19 planners of 9/11 were saudis) while Iraq which has never caused a single terror attack against the united states just so happens to be on the list.

This CNN article does a great job breaking down the stupidity of the Muslim ban,
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/us/refugee-terrorism-trnd/

If you don't feel like reading it, i'll post the relevent parts,

San Bernardino attacks
Farook, 28, was an American citizen born in Chicago. Malik, 29, was born and raised in Pakistan, and later lived in Saudi Arabia. (Pakistan is also not on the ban)

New York and New Jersey explosions
Rahimi was born in Afghanistan and first came to the United States in 1995. Rahimi became a naturalized US citizen in 2011. (Afghanistan is also not on the ban)

Orlando Pulse nightclub shooting
Omar Mateen, was an American citizen living in Fort Pierce, Florida. He was born in New York, and his parents were from Afghanistan.

Boston Marathon bombings
Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev were born in Kyrgyzstan to parents originally from war-torn Chechnya. (Kyrgyzstan is not on the ban)

World Trade Center, September 11, 2001
Of the 19 people who hijacked four planes on September 11, 2001, 15 of them hailed from Saudi Arabia. Two were from the United Arab Emirates, one was from Egypt, and one was from Lebanon.
(none of these countries are on the ban)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 03, 2017, 04:58:42 pm
Spoiler
Maybe if you started using rational thought in response to knee jerk emotional reaction you'd have more success bringing people to your cause, lol.
The rise of right wing populism is due to the rise of the social democratic left, and it's perceived power in society.
In my eyes, the rise of right wing populism is based on xenophobia, bigotry and racism. My response is not really a knee jerk reaction, its literally trump in the US, UKIP and others with Brexit and now other european nations. The central theme seems to be to keep out foreigners...

You can say that it's a response to the left and in some ways that may be true but the more likely case is that some folks became scared of people who look different.

I wonder why Merkel hates Germany so much
Maybe because Germany hates Germany.
It almost seems too easy for leftists to blame racism and bigotry to detract from their own failings.
Whose failings exactly? Mine? That of the neo-liberal establishment before trump? SJWs? I'm not a neo-liberal and i don't really identify much with the cause of identity politics (ie: SJWs).
[close]

Hold on there, you just activated my trap card, "Check yourself before you rek yourself". When an opponent tries to distance themselves from identity politics, remind them that they blamed the rise of the populist right on racism and xenophobia, which is basically identity politics.

It also allows me to draw 2 more cards.
What i mean by "not identifying much with the cause of identity politics" is that i see it as less important than classism. Even though others may disagree with feminists, the concept of 'privilege' still exists. To what extent it exists is what is debated. I'll use an example, there is a homeless white man and a rich black trans woman, who has more privilege? The rich black trans woman because classism is more important than your identity. This is what i mean when i say that i don't identify as much with identity politics.

However that being said, i'm not going to ignore identity politics when it is relevant, such as the case with Donald Trump. The Muslim ban is racist, it's targeting a specific group of people with a specific religion different to ours. The ban contradicts itself because saudi arabia is mysteriously nowhere to be found on the list (15 of the 19 planners of 9/11 were saudis) while Iraq which has never caused a single terror attack against the united states just so happens to be on the list.

You could've ended it after your first paragraph and I would have been more or less like "Fair Enough", even though you never explained why everyone (especially the working class you communists love) suddenly decided to be xenophobic and racist. But then ya fucked up.

Your first mistake is CNN

Your second mistake is that Islam is not a race, therefore it literally cannot be racist. For example, if I were to found a Death Cult in which we worshipped Shia Labeouf and partook in Human Sacrifices, and our religion was subsequently banned from the United States, it wouldn't be racist as we would be a religion not a race. I'm guessing when you say Muslim you mean Arabs, but referring to Arabs as Muslims is far from politically correct to the point it could actually be racist, as you are saying that all Arabs are Muslim, and nobody else besides Arabs can be muslim.

Your third mistake is saying that it is a Muslim Ban, which it's not. Referring to it as a Muslim ban is purposefully misleading in a number of ways. The first of which, you make it sound like Islam itself is banned in the United States, which it is definitely not. Secondly, it is a ban on a number of countries identified by the Obama Administration as sources of terror. My guess is that the list was compiled by data from Terror attacks around the world, and not just America, so the nationality of terrorists who have committed terror attacks on American soil might not necessarily reflect the nationality of a majority of terrorists worldwide. But of course, I know the left likes to shy away from statistics and data when it comes to Terrorism.

Your last mistake is bringing up the nationalities of the terrorists from countries we haven't banned, and I am still not entirely sure why the hell you would do that. Are you trying to argue that we should ban more countries? Bringing them up is literally an argument to ban MORE countries. It is definitely not an argument against the ban. You call it the ban contradicting itself, I call it Trump being soft. It shocks me that you wanted him to be tougher.

Conclusion: Even "when relevant", Identity Politics is still stupid.

I will then play two cards face down and end my turn.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 03, 2017, 05:53:47 pm
You wanna actually play Yugi-oh or something
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on February 03, 2017, 05:57:41 pm
Spoiler
Maybe if you started using rational thought in response to knee jerk emotional reaction you'd have more success bringing people to your cause, lol.
The rise of right wing populism is due to the rise of the social democratic left, and it's perceived power in society.
In my eyes, the rise of right wing populism is based on xenophobia, bigotry and racism. My response is not really a knee jerk reaction, its literally trump in the US, UKIP and others with Brexit and now other european nations. The central theme seems to be to keep out foreigners...

You can say that it's a response to the left and in some ways that may be true but the more likely case is that some folks became scared of people who look different.

I wonder why Merkel hates Germany so much
Maybe because Germany hates Germany.
It almost seems too easy for leftists to blame racism and bigotry to detract from their own failings.
Whose failings exactly? Mine? That of the neo-liberal establishment before trump? SJWs? I'm not a neo-liberal and i don't really identify much with the cause of identity politics (ie: SJWs).
[close]

Hold on there, you just activated my trap card, "Check yourself before you rek yourself". When an opponent tries to distance themselves from identity politics, remind them that they blamed the rise of the populist right on racism and xenophobia, which is basically identity politics.

It also allows me to draw 2 more cards.
What i mean by "not identifying much with the cause of identity politics" is that i see it as less important than classism. Even though others may disagree with feminists, the concept of 'privilege' still exists. To what extent it exists is what is debated. I'll use an example, there is a homeless white man and a rich black trans woman, who has more privilege? The rich black trans woman because classism is more important than your identity. This is what i mean when i say that i don't identify as much with identity politics.

However that being said, i'm not going to ignore identity politics when it is relevant, such as the case with Donald Trump. The Muslim ban is racist, it's targeting a specific group of people with a specific religion different to ours. The ban contradicts itself because saudi arabia is mysteriously nowhere to be found on the list (15 of the 19 planners of 9/11 were saudis) while Iraq which has never caused a single terror attack against the united states just so happens to be on the list.

You could've ended it after your first paragraph and I would have been more or less like "Fair Enough", even though you never explained why everyone (especially the working class you communists love) suddenly decided to be xenophobic and racist. But then ya fucked up.

Your first mistake is CNN

Your second mistake is that Islam is not a race, therefore it literally cannot be racist. For example, if I were to found a Death Cult in which we worshipped Shia Labeouf and partook in Human Sacrifices, and our religion was subsequently banned from the United States, it wouldn't be racist as we would be a religion not a race. I'm guessing when you say Muslim you mean Arabs, but referring to Arabs as Muslims is far from politically correct to the point it could actually be racist, as you are saying that all Arabs are Muslim, and nobody else besides Arabs can be muslim.

Your third mistake is saying that it is a Muslim Ban, which it's not. Referring to it as a Muslim ban is purposefully misleading in a number of ways. The first of which, you make it sound like Islam itself is banned in the United States, which it is definitely not. Secondly, it is a ban on a number of countries identified by the Obama Administration as sources of terror. My guess is that the list was compiled by data from Terror attacks around the world, and not just America, so the nationality of terrorists who have committed terror attacks on American soil might not necessarily reflect the nationality of a majority of terrorists worldwide. But of course, I know the left likes to shy away from statistics and data when it comes to Terrorism.

Your last mistake is bringing up the nationalities of the terrorists from countries we haven't banned, and I am still not entirely sure why the hell you would do that. Are you trying to argue that we should ban more countries? Bringing them up is literally an argument to ban MORE countries. It is definitely not an argument against the ban. You call it the ban contradicting itself, I call it Trump being soft. It shocks me that you wanted him to be tougher.

Conclusion: Even "when relevant", Identity Politics is still stupid.

I will then play two cards face down and end my turn.
I'm attacking you directly for 500 lifepoints.

Spoiler
You could've ended it after your first paragraph and I would have been more or less like "Fair Enough", even though you never explained why everyone (especially the working class you communists love) suddenly decided to be xenophobic and racist. But then ya fucked up.
[close]
I know this isn't super relevent to our discussion but it's worth noting that a majority of the working class did not vote for trump. 241 million people can vote. Cut out 1 million for the bougie folks, trump got about 62 million votes. That's about 38%. I know my math is off a bit but that's a general area of the percentage.

Spoiler
Your first mistake is CNN
[close]
wot

Spoiler
Your second mistake is that Islam is not a race, therefore it literally cannot be racist. For example, if I were to found a Death Cult in which we worshipped Shia Labeouf and partook in Human Sacrifices, and our religion was subsequently banned from the United States, it wouldn't be racist as we would be a religion not a race. I'm guessing when you say Muslim you mean Arabs, but referring to Arabs as Muslims is far from politically correct to the point it could actually be racist, as you are saying that all Arabs are Muslim, and nobody else besides Arabs can be muslim.
[close]
I get that Islam is not a race...however the predominate population within the banned countries are Arab Muslims. It is racist because it is targeting people of a particular race that just so happens to have their own dominate religion. So he's not JUST racist, he's also Islamophobic and Xenophobic. I hate having to throw these words around because i don't think that form of disourse is particularly effective but in the case of Trump where is so blatant, so obvious, it's honestly disgusting, I make the exception because I genuinely believe it's true.

Spoiler
Your third mistake is saying that it is a Muslim Ban, which it's not. Referring to it as a Muslim ban is purposefully misleading in a number of ways. The first of which, you make it sound like Islam itself is banned in the United States, which it is definitely not. Secondly, it is a ban on a number of countries identified by the Obama Administration as sources of terror. My guess is that the list was compiled by data from Terror attacks around the world, and not just America, so the nationality of terrorists who have committed terror attacks on American soil might not necessarily reflect the nationality of a majority of terrorists worldwide. But of course, I know the left likes to shy away from statistics and data when it comes to Terrorism.
[close]
I call it a Muslim ban because it's mostly Arab Muslims who are being banned...maybe it's misleading, but whatever. Okay, so it's about terror statistics then...what exactly are we scared of? A terror attack that we have no evidence will happen? These "terror" attacks are mostly happening on their own soil because they are in active civil wars which we are at least partially responsible for.

Spoiler
Your last mistake is bringing up the nationalities of the terrorists from countries we haven't banned, and I am still not entirely sure why the hell you would do that. Are you trying to argue that we should ban more countries? Bringing them up is literally an argument to ban MORE countries. It is definitely not an argument against the ban. You call it the ban contradicting itself, I call it Trump being soft. It shocks me that you wanted him to be tougher.
[close]
The point of the ban is to protect AMERICANS. So it's relevant to bring up evidence that suggest certain people of certain nationalities may be more harmful than others, hints the nationalities of prior attacks. If we were to go by that logic, saudi arabia seems very unfriendly towards americans and should really be at the top of trump's list. I am in no way advocating a larger ban or any ban at all, i'm simply pointing out that this ban is pointless...it serves no purpose if he cannot provide any evidence that the nations or people within the nations that he banned had any reason to attack us which he cannot provide.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on February 03, 2017, 06:06:54 pm
The Muslim ban was poorly planned and will be ineffective
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ted on February 03, 2017, 07:55:49 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reuJ8yVCgSM
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ted on February 03, 2017, 08:00:17 pm
Sorry for the doublepost, but it's just great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sq-VPDtNK4
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 03, 2017, 08:45:40 pm
Sorry for the doublepost, but it's just great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sq-VPDtNK4

Video game sucks, they don't even mention destroying Europe with two wars  >:(
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Brave Sir Charge on February 03, 2017, 09:57:22 pm
Sorry for the doublepost, but it's just great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sq-VPDtNK4
Meh.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 03, 2017, 10:34:16 pm
Six weeks to the election and still the polls show little change. Every now and again a party drops one or two seats and another raises, but nothing major. PVV shows a declining line but is still leading.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cara on February 04, 2017, 10:16:39 am
God again american politics even here  ::)

For us, the right favorite is bursting into flames, due to his english wife, it's kinda funny
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 04, 2017, 12:55:02 pm
Why do French Elections always seem to be solely about personal issues?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 04, 2017, 02:51:12 pm
Spoiler
Maybe if you started using rational thought in response to knee jerk emotional reaction you'd have more success bringing people to your cause, lol.
The rise of right wing populism is due to the rise of the social democratic left, and it's perceived power in society.
In my eyes, the rise of right wing populism is based on xenophobia, bigotry and racism. My response is not really a knee jerk reaction, its literally trump in the US, UKIP and others with Brexit and now other european nations. The central theme seems to be to keep out foreigners...

You can say that it's a response to the left and in some ways that may be true but the more likely case is that some folks became scared of people who look different.

I wonder why Merkel hates Germany so much
Maybe because Germany hates Germany.
It almost seems too easy for leftists to blame racism and bigotry to detract from their own failings.
Whose failings exactly? Mine? That of the neo-liberal establishment before trump? SJWs? I'm not a neo-liberal and i don't really identify much with the cause of identity politics (ie: SJWs).
[close]

Hold on there, you just activated my trap card, "Check yourself before you rek yourself". When an opponent tries to distance themselves from identity politics, remind them that they blamed the rise of the populist right on racism and xenophobia, which is basically identity politics.

It also allows me to draw 2 more cards.
What i mean by "not identifying much with the cause of identity politics" is that i see it as less important than classism. Even though others may disagree with feminists, the concept of 'privilege' still exists. To what extent it exists is what is debated. I'll use an example, there is a homeless white man and a rich black trans woman, who has more privilege? The rich black trans woman because classism is more important than your identity. This is what i mean when i say that i don't identify as much with identity politics.

However that being said, i'm not going to ignore identity politics when it is relevant, such as the case with Donald Trump. The Muslim ban is racist, it's targeting a specific group of people with a specific religion different to ours. The ban contradicts itself because saudi arabia is mysteriously nowhere to be found on the list (15 of the 19 planners of 9/11 were saudis) while Iraq which has never caused a single terror attack against the united states just so happens to be on the list.

You could've ended it after your first paragraph and I would have been more or less like "Fair Enough", even though you never explained why everyone (especially the working class you communists love) suddenly decided to be xenophobic and racist. But then ya fucked up.

Your first mistake is CNN

Your second mistake is that Islam is not a race, therefore it literally cannot be racist. For example, if I were to found a Death Cult in which we worshipped Shia Labeouf and partook in Human Sacrifices, and our religion was subsequently banned from the United States, it wouldn't be racist as we would be a religion not a race. I'm guessing when you say Muslim you mean Arabs, but referring to Arabs as Muslims is far from politically correct to the point it could actually be racist, as you are saying that all Arabs are Muslim, and nobody else besides Arabs can be muslim.

Your third mistake is saying that it is a Muslim Ban, which it's not. Referring to it as a Muslim ban is purposefully misleading in a number of ways. The first of which, you make it sound like Islam itself is banned in the United States, which it is definitely not. Secondly, it is a ban on a number of countries identified by the Obama Administration as sources of terror. My guess is that the list was compiled by data from Terror attacks around the world, and not just America, so the nationality of terrorists who have committed terror attacks on American soil might not necessarily reflect the nationality of a majority of terrorists worldwide. But of course, I know the left likes to shy away from statistics and data when it comes to Terrorism.

Your last mistake is bringing up the nationalities of the terrorists from countries we haven't banned, and I am still not entirely sure why the hell you would do that. Are you trying to argue that we should ban more countries? Bringing them up is literally an argument to ban MORE countries. It is definitely not an argument against the ban. You call it the ban contradicting itself, I call it Trump being soft. It shocks me that you wanted him to be tougher.

Conclusion: Even "when relevant", Identity Politics is still stupid.

I will then play two cards face down and end my turn.

Spoiler
I'm attacking you directly for 500 lifepoints.

Spoiler
You could've ended it after your first paragraph and I would have been more or less like "Fair Enough", even though you never explained why everyone (especially the working class you communists love) suddenly decided to be xenophobic and racist. But then ya fucked up.
[close]
I know this isn't super relevent to our discussion but it's worth noting that a majority of the working class did not vote for trump. 241 million people can vote. Cut out 1 million for the bougie folks, trump got about 62 million votes. That's about 38%. I know my math is off a bit but that's a general area of the percentage.

Spoiler
Your first mistake is CNN
[close]
wot

Spoiler
Your second mistake is that Islam is not a race, therefore it literally cannot be racist. For example, if I were to found a Death Cult in which we worshipped Shia Labeouf and partook in Human Sacrifices, and our religion was subsequently banned from the United States, it wouldn't be racist as we would be a religion not a race. I'm guessing when you say Muslim you mean Arabs, but referring to Arabs as Muslims is far from politically correct to the point it could actually be racist, as you are saying that all Arabs are Muslim, and nobody else besides Arabs can be muslim.
[close]
I get that Islam is not a race...however the predominate population within the banned countries are Arab Muslims. It is racist because it is targeting people of a particular race that just so happens to have their own dominate religion. So he's not JUST racist, he's also Islamophobic and Xenophobic. I hate having to throw these words around because i don't think that form of disourse is particularly effective but in the case of Trump where is so blatant, so obvious, it's honestly disgusting, I make the exception because I genuinely believe it's true.

Spoiler
Your third mistake is saying that it is a Muslim Ban, which it's not. Referring to it as a Muslim ban is purposefully misleading in a number of ways. The first of which, you make it sound like Islam itself is banned in the United States, which it is definitely not. Secondly, it is a ban on a number of countries identified by the Obama Administration as sources of terror. My guess is that the list was compiled by data from Terror attacks around the world, and not just America, so the nationality of terrorists who have committed terror attacks on American soil might not necessarily reflect the nationality of a majority of terrorists worldwide. But of course, I know the left likes to shy away from statistics and data when it comes to Terrorism.
[close]
I call it a Muslim ban because it's mostly Arab Muslims who are being banned...maybe it's misleading, but whatever. Okay, so it's about terror statistics then...what exactly are we scared of? A terror attack that we have no evidence will happen? These "terror" attacks are mostly happening on their own soil because they are in active civil wars which we are at least partially responsible for.

Spoiler
Your last mistake is bringing up the nationalities of the terrorists from countries we haven't banned, and I am still not entirely sure why the hell you would do that. Are you trying to argue that we should ban more countries? Bringing them up is literally an argument to ban MORE countries. It is definitely not an argument against the ban. You call it the ban contradicting itself, I call it Trump being soft. It shocks me that you wanted him to be tougher.
[close]
The point of the ban is to protect AMERICANS. So it's relevant to bring up evidence that suggest certain people of certain nationalities may be more harmful than others, hints the nationalities of prior attacks. If we were to go by that logic, saudi arabia seems very unfriendly towards americans and should really be at the top of trump's list. I am in no way advocating a larger ban or any ban at all, i'm simply pointing out that this ban is pointless...it serves no purpose if he cannot provide any evidence that the nations or people within the nations that he banned had any reason to attack us which he cannot provide.
[close]

Shame I had "The Wall" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPfa5VuTVN4) in defense mode. Aint getting past that.

Well first off you are basing your percentage on the entire eligible voting population in the US, and not the ones that actually voted which was about ~58% iirc. The reason I say its the working class that is who you are throwing your identity politics at, is because its mostly true. Alot of facts thrown around by leftists right after the election was all about how those with college degrees/masters degrees voted for Hillary. Now, I dunno what your picture of a "bougie", but when I think bougie I think someone sitting in a nice house with a college degree hanging on his/her door. Those people voted for Hillary. Your famous actors and such who have not really contributed alot to society, also voted for Hillary overwhelmingly. When I think of the proletariat, I think of the lower/middle class, as I see them as the working men/women of America. Its funny, because when you ask a leftists (and even you yourself are kind of perpetuating this), what they think a Trump supporter is, they are likely to respond that they are rednecks among with a whole list of "phobics" and "ists". But the thing with Rednecks, is no matter how many "phobics" and "ists" you throw at them, they are the lower/middle class of America. There is your proleteriate tbh. I see it odd that a Communist would hate the basis of his movement really. Afterall, Communism is really intended to be a populist movement, a movement by the majority to take back their livelihood from the few.

Spoiler
wot
[close]

You know wot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trLbb0Ucyy4)

Spoiler
I get that Islam is not a race...however the predominate population within the banned countries are Arab Muslims. It is racist because it is targeting people of a particular race that just so happens to have their own dominate religion. So he's not JUST racist, he's also Islamophobic and Xenophobic. I hate having to throw these words around because i don't think that form of disourse is particularly effective but in the case of Trump where is so blatant, so obvious, it's honestly disgusting, I make the exception because I genuinely believe it's true.
[close]

Thats ridiculous. You are alleging it as something its not. Arabs are still allowed in America. Muslims are still allowed in America. Its a ban on nations, not races or even religions. If every German suddenly became a Nazi, and I mean a heiling, book burning, jew hunting Nazi, and we banned travel from Germany due to fear from far right terrorists or whatever, it wouldn't be racist because most of them are White. You are saying its something its not. Its also not "Christianophobic" or whatever you would call that, even though they are mostly Christian. The only argument you have grounds for is that it is Xenophobic, but if it was truly xenophobic we would just shut down travel with ALL other countries. A phobia is an unreasonable fear of a particular thing, with Xenophobia being an irrational fear of foreigners. However, you know its not that. It is quite reasonable to bar travel from those countries as it is dangerous. It could only be 1 and 1000, or even 10000 is a terrorist, but those still are not very good odds and why take the risk when you...literally don't have to. Nations are not obliged to have free movement of people.

Spoiler
I call it a Muslim ban because it's mostly Arab Muslims who are being banned...maybe it's misleading, but whatever. Okay, so it's about terror statistics then...what exactly are we scared of? A terror attack that we have no evidence will happen? These "terror" attacks are mostly happening on their own soil because they are in active civil wars which we are at least partially responsible for.
[close]

I will just call it a Terrorist ban then, because that is more accurate to its purpose and than calling it a Muslim ban.

You see, the best terror attack is a terror attack that never happened. If we can prevent just one terrorist from entering the United States with this ban, then it will have been a success in my eyes as that could be the lives of 30 or more Americans saved. The President's job is to keep Americans safe. If he can accomplish that by having a travel ban on those countries, then I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. If in the future we can reach out and help people in the Middle East WITHOUT endangering Americans, then I see no reason why we should not do that. However, the safety of Americans comes first, especially in the eyes of the president.

Spoiler
The point of the ban is to protect AMERICANS. So it's relevant to bring up evidence that suggest certain people of certain nationalities may be more harmful than others, hints the nationalities of prior attacks. If we were to go by that logic, saudi arabia seems very unfriendly towards americans and should really be at the top of trump's list. I am in no way advocating a larger ban or any ban at all, i'm simply pointing out that this ban is pointless...it serves no purpose if he cannot provide any evidence that the nations or people within the nations that he banned had any reason to attack us which he cannot provide.
[close]

You are being ridiculous. Terrorists don't need more reason to attack us, other than that we don't agree with them. That is what terrorism is, Political Persuasion through Terror. If their goal is to convert us to Islam, or particularly their particular view of Islam, then they would try to scare us into thinking it is not worth being anything but their particular view of Islam. That is why the primary victims of Terrorists...are other Muslims. You would think that a Muslim has not given a terrorist any reason to attack him, other than that they slightly disagree, but that is enough justification for them. Just because YOU don't think they have a reason to attack Americans, doesn't mean they think that. Actually, on second thought, you blamed the state of the Middleast on us, which I would say is reason enough for them, meaning that we probably are high up on the list of targets.

Here's the thing though. The only reason I can think of for why those countries are not banned, is that they are going off of terror statistics worldwide and found those countries to be low enough to be considered somewhat safe, which makes sense to me. However, if you think I am going to argue for why they shouldn't be banned, you would be incredibly wrong. The easiest fix to the "contradiction" you are pointing out is to just ban those countries. I am for it. Easy as that. That is why I say its a weird argument to bring, as you could present those facts you are listing as an argument to ban more countries, not less.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cara on February 04, 2017, 03:18:24 pm
Why do French Elections always seem to be solely about personal issues?

The exercice of the Présidence de la République by some strong men with charisma and strong personality (From De Gaulle to Mitterrand) made this office very personnal. So this election is mostly a referendum on a person (as it was for Napoleon I and III) more than a party or a program thing.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on February 04, 2017, 05:17:00 pm
If you're gonna discuss Trump's wall and his foreign policy, don't do that here. You have the US politics thread for that.

Now back on topic, it's really interesting to note the amount of scandals coming of ex-Sarkozy supporters. I wonder if Fillon will hold.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 04, 2017, 05:35:02 pm
If you're gonna discuss Trump's wall and his foreign policy, don't do that here. You have the US politics thread for that.

Now back on topic, it's really interesting to note the amount of scandals coming of ex-Sarkozy supporters. I wonder if Fillon will hold.

or The General Political Thread
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on February 04, 2017, 05:37:34 pm
This is a general politics thread and we are discussing trump's foreign policy which effects everyone. Like it or not.

Anyways, apoc, your arguments are based on fallacious grounds. I would explain it but im busy at the moment.

I play Jeb Bush in defense mode.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on February 04, 2017, 06:47:00 pm
If you're gonna discuss Trump's wall and his foreign policy, don't do that here. You have the US politics thread for that.

Now back on topic, it's really interesting to note the amount of scandals coming of ex-Sarkozy supporters. I wonder if Fillon will hold.
Spoiler
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AtC_wld3YJE
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on February 04, 2017, 08:27:30 pm
Alright, hold on to your horses. I missed that, apologies. You're right.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cara on February 04, 2017, 09:33:26 pm
If you're gonna discuss Trump's wall and his foreign policy, don't do that here. You have the US politics thread for that.

Now back on topic, it's really interesting to note the amount of scandals coming of ex-Sarkozy supporters. I wonder if Fillon will hold.

Actually, Fillon wasn't a Sarkozy supporter, he became his PM to make an alliance inside the Right. It's more like the encounter between the internet, independant newspapers, concerned connected citizens and old-school politicians with all their little arrangements with the law. Since new laws in 2013, a significant amount of these arrangements became public and are tried. From Le Pen (3+ cases), to Socialists leaders and Sarkozy-Fillion-Copé Right leaders.

As a young elector, a former public law and political science student (former parliementary assistant too as Penelope :p ), I'm glad of this sweep in old corrupted politicians ;)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 04, 2017, 10:50:18 pm
Joer is right, though. There is a specific thread for US and US-related politics, so kindly keep it in that thread.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on February 07, 2017, 05:36:02 am
So is the us politics thread locked permanently?

Also went to that Ben Shapiro thing tonight at my school. It was lit.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 08, 2017, 05:51:51 pm
Discuss: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-08/germanys-muslim-demographic-future
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 08, 2017, 06:44:11 pm
*subscribing*
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Hadhod on February 08, 2017, 07:50:28 pm
Discuss: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-08/germanys-muslim-demographic-future
I'll take the bait

Just look at the comments on that site:

Spoiler

3 Choices:
1) Sterilize all Muslim immigrants
2) Send them back
3) Put them all on their own island that Saudi Prince offered


It will lead to white genocide.  Its been happening for decades in South Africa.  That is Germany's future:  they will deny the whites even their own homelands to escape the anti-white racism that the talmudists have spread around the world (with the help of war mongering shabbez goy).

The native Europeans will be outnumbered by the end of the century.
Apostates will be stoned to death on the Place de la Concorde sooner than anyone can believe.
[close]

Many of their sources are from a dubious right wing site (Gatestone Institute) whose founder supports far right institutions and funded Geert Wilders. Looking through some of the articles from their site they seem to very much cherry pick their information.

"The organization describes itself as a "non-partisan, not-for-profit international policy council and think tank is dedicated to educating the public about what the mainstream media fails to report." The organization believes that traditional news outlets conduct insufficient and, as a result, misleading reporting on critical issues, and thus it distributes its own information about events in the Middle East and Muslim populations in other parts of the world."

Looks like they are fearmongering and spreading prejudices pretty harshly.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on February 08, 2017, 08:18:11 pm
Well yeah I clicked on a link that lead me to this Institute which claimed that there are No-Go zones in Germany, one of them being Duisburg Marxloh. Yeah right. I studied in Duisburg. I have been in Marxloh. It is not a no go zone. Sure, by German standards it is not the most peaceful or richest place, but its not a No-Go zone...
And even if it was, that would be like the first in Germany, whereas the US has like 20 quantatixtiallion, yet no one freaks out about that?

Edit:
Their references are also predominatnly N24, Bild and Spiegel. PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. All of them are owned by the same company. AND ITS SHIT.
They apparently also contradict themself/cherry pick sentences out of articles. One of their links contradicted what they said earlier.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cara on February 08, 2017, 08:38:47 pm
Aaaah I remember the no-go zones that Fox News found in Paris, even my own block  ;D Alternative facts maybe ?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 08, 2017, 09:17:55 pm
I hate how both the right wing extrememists and the left wing extrememists completely stop any serious discussion about the problems that Islam has :(
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on February 08, 2017, 09:18:55 pm
Islam is the religion of peace
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on February 08, 2017, 09:21:53 pm
I hate how both the right wing extrememists and the left wing extrememists completely stop any serious discussion about the problems that Islam has :(

Tbf, that is very much the case in all modern day problems and debates.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 08, 2017, 09:23:03 pm
I hate how both the right wing extrememists and the left wing extrememists completely stop any serious discussion about the problems that Islam has :(

Tbf, that is very much the case in all modern day problems and debates.
true :( Tbh I think we are pretty much fucked. Radical lefties in charge led to people turning to radical right groups and both are severly retarded.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on February 08, 2017, 09:41:56 pm
I can assure you that no radical leftists are "in charge" even though i wish it were true.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 08, 2017, 09:44:42 pm
I can assure you that no radical leftists are "in charge" even though i wish it were true.
Well, the SJW/Antifa crap is part of the radical left, or atleast they hijacked it. And they control campuses as far as im aware.

Im rather left myself tbh
Spoiler
(https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=-9.38&soc=-7.44)
[close]

but I really dislike the authorian motives that these people pursue
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 08, 2017, 11:01:00 pm
'They control campuses'. What is that even supposed to mean?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on February 08, 2017, 11:06:24 pm
How are SJWs and ANTIFA in anyway in a position of actual power? Remember, you said this,
Quote
Radical lefties in charge led to people turning to radical right groups and both are severly retarded.
I'm just trying to figure out what radical leftists you're referring to.

Also, they don't really 'control' campuses, they have influence in a few campuses. Just because ANTIFA made a big stand at UC Berkeley doesn't mean that radical leftists control all college campuses, that's just ridiculous.

In addition, as a leftist yourself, would you agree with this statement?
Spoiler
(https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16299172_1249810258445716_3515009147934957555_n.jpg?oh=182c16014bafe3bb06f54281d920cefc&oe=59054410)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 08, 2017, 11:20:27 pm
The radical left controls university campuses. As a university student in North America you must realize that
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 08, 2017, 11:28:23 pm
The radical left controls university campuses. As a university student in North America you must realize that

What does this 'control' even mean?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on February 08, 2017, 11:29:34 pm
As a humanities student in the Netherlands, I see no sign of left SJW's ruling campusses. I can't comment on the US, sure, but my university explicity said that they would not censor or remove any unwanted lectures or topics. My faculty has regular lectures, debates and discussions on sensitive matters such as slavery, Nazis, Holocaust, Immigration and terrorism. Not once has anyone protested against this or got triggered. Never heard of that. Never heard of anything like that from friends studying elsewhere. So at least in my country, universities are far from ruled by leftist SJWs. If anything, the Right winged libertarians are doing very well here.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on February 08, 2017, 11:48:50 pm
The radical left controls university campuses. As a university student in North America you must realize that
They don't 'control' universities, they just have influence there.

Oh dear god, opinions and ideas different from your own!? That must be fucking awful. Poor conservatives, having to listen to these stupid fucking feminists and socialists with their "equality" nonsense. You must really be having a hard time theo :(
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 08, 2017, 11:55:27 pm
You're telling me about opinions and ideas different from my own? Dear god, you're insane. There's a difference between hearing people's opinions and having those opinions being the facts of life. People get jumped for wearing Trump hats, for goodness sakes. As the saying goes "if you ain't tolerant, you get beat" and that's what control means.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 09, 2017, 01:19:14 am
>pussy
>not wanting to get sucker punched for my politics
Ok
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 09, 2017, 02:18:24 am
The government is completely Republican now.


That is all
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Mexican on February 09, 2017, 06:31:38 am
The radical left controls university campuses. As a university student in North America you must realize that

What does this 'control' even mean?
Well when you surround yourself in an environment filled with professors and staff who constantly reinforce a leftist worldview for 4 years and you don't make an effort to research differing ideologies, then yeah, you essentially become indoctrinated through social pressure. This isn't necessarily exclusive to leftist views, it can happen in pretty much any community where everyone is conservative, liberal, etc. it's just that college campuses are overwhelmingly leftist (This study says that the ratio of registered Democrats to Republicans among University professors is 11.5:1 http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/6/liberal-professors-outnumber-conservatives-12-1/ ). This is a very simple concept I don't see how anyone can't understand this
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 09, 2017, 06:42:42 am
Usually, the only republicans in the social science departments are the economists
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 09, 2017, 10:55:09 am
The radical left controls university campuses. As a university student in North America you must realize that

What does this 'control' even mean?
Well when you surround yourself in an environment filled with professors and staff who constantly reinforce a leftist worldview for 4 years and you don't make an effort to research differing ideologies, then yeah, you essentially become indoctrinated through social pressure. This isn't necessarily exclusive to leftist views, it can happen in pretty much any community where everyone is conservative, liberal, etc. it's just that college campuses are overwhelmingly leftist (This study says that the ratio of registered Democrats to Republicans among University professors is 11.5:1 http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/6/liberal-professors-outnumber-conservatives-12-1/ ). This is a very simple concept I don't see how anyone can't understand this

Perhaps it has more to do with knowledge regarding how thinks actually work, rather than political ideologies. Certainly, there is a leftist trend in universities, but from what I have experienced, have heard, seen and read, there is no actual political agenda, or any matter of control. It is more a matter of transferring facts, something that the rigth and most notably the conservatives are known for.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 09, 2017, 12:48:31 pm
Certainly, there is a leftist trend in universities, but from what I have experienced, have heard, seen and read, there is no actual political agenda, or any matter of control.

Have you been living under a rock?

Milo is the most prominent example sure, but there are many more isolated cases such as the one regarding Daniel Brewster (is awarding extra credit to students who attend your leftist event means of control? yes). You're seriously downplaying it with "a leftist trend"; the professors have made themselves a meme with how little effort they put into hiding their bias.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on February 09, 2017, 02:49:51 pm
The leftist trend might be the case in the US, but it currently is not by any means in Europe.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on February 09, 2017, 03:07:37 pm
The leftist trend might be the case in the US, but it currently is not by any means in Europe.
L M A O
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 09, 2017, 03:33:17 pm
The leftist trend might be the case in the US, but it currently is not by any means in Europe.

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Ffacebook%2F001%2F133%2F417%2F0d1.jpg_large&hash=5d80ccc5b7cf52c8eff3447e254093b4a7dca7ae)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on February 09, 2017, 06:03:19 pm
My question to you folks is this,

How did this happen?

It certainly wasn't organized by the professors. So how did this come about?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 09, 2017, 06:26:03 pm
It certainly wasn't organized by the professors. So how did this come about?

That's my point. When I  was talking about universities, I meant the actual institutions and lessons.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 09, 2017, 08:15:39 pm
'They control campuses'. What is that even supposed to mean?
You can savely say that left tendencies have been in charge of the agenda setting in most of western society. And Campuses are mostly politically left, look at student movements and most professors. In Germany a mathematics prof was fired because he let his students calculate how likely it is that a terrorist is also a muslim.

Spoiler
How are SJWs and ANTIFA in anyway in a position of actual power? Remember, you said this,
Quote
Radical lefties in charge led to people turning to radical right groups and both are severly retarded.
I'm just trying to figure out what radical leftists you're referring to.

Also, they don't really 'control' campuses, they have influence in a few campuses. Just because ANTIFA made a big stand at UC Berkeley doesn't mean that radical leftists control all college campuses, that's just ridiculous.

In addition, as a leftist yourself, would you agree with this statement?
Spoiler
(https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16299172_1249810258445716_3515009147934957555_n.jpg?oh=182c16014bafe3bb06f54281d920cefc&oe=59054410)
[close]
[close]

Again, those groups (or lesser groups) are (in my subjective view) in charge of agenda setting, or atleast the public media output follows a "left" mainstream. Since we are on a international forum this is hard to proof for all countries, so I can only talk about German media. For example, media outlets were asked to not talk about the heritage if they reported any sort of crime related to immigrants.

This, again, is NOT the case for all media outlets. You can see tendencys though.

And gluk, do you stand behind this Antifa retard? I mean jesus HOW retarded do you have to frikkin be.

1. Preventing someone from killing someone by killing him is the WORST case scenario and it is NOT how any kind of judgement in a decent society should happen.

2. Are they not aware that one of the groups that they protect is the biggest Antisemetic and homophobic religion that exists? Jesus Christ.

Spoiler
The radical left controls university campuses. As a university student in North America you must realize that
They don't 'control' universities, they just have influence there.

Oh dear god, opinions and ideas different from your own!? That must be fucking awful. Poor conservatives, having to listen to these stupid fucking feminists and socialists with their "equality" nonsense. You must really be having a hard time theo :(
[close]

There is a difference between actually discussing different opinions (wich is sometimes happening here) and outright refusing to listen to someone because you assume you have the moral highground(wich is happening here most of the time, from BOTH sides).

I know its a shitty personal experience argument, but every time I try to talk about the problems that occur with bringing over a million immigrants into your country in less then 2 years I get called a nazi or im being "intolerant".

Spoiler
Perhaps it has more to do with knowledge regarding how thinks actually work, rather than political ideologies. Certainly, there is a leftist trend in universities, but from what I have experienced, have heard, seen and read, there is no actual political agenda, or any matter of control. It is more a matter of transferring facts, something that the rigth and most notably the conservatives are known for.
[close]
Yeah sure, the left is just more intelligent than the right! Not like the left EVER ignores facts right?!  *stares at obvious issues with mass immigration* ::)

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on February 09, 2017, 09:28:41 pm
The reason why most Professors in the US rather vote Democrat than Republican, is because those Professors are Scientists. And Scientist like to believe that evolution exist and stuff. So they are more likely to vote Democrat than Republican, because as we know Republicans hate Science, because JESUUUUUUUS and OIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

If I were a Scientist in the US and I had to choose between someone who will cut all my funding and between someone who will not necessarily increase it, but at least keep it more or less the same, I obviously choose the 2nd one.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 09, 2017, 09:53:02 pm
Aaaaaand we're back to talking about US politics on the European politics discussion thread. GG.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 09, 2017, 09:55:28 pm
The reason why most Professors in the US rather vote Democrat than Republican, is because those Professors are Scientists. And Scientist like to believe that evolution exist and stuff. So they are more likely to vote Democrat than Republican, because as we know Republicans hate Science, because JESUUUUUUUS and OIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

If I were a Scientist in the US and I had to choose between someone who will cut all my funding and between someone who will not necessarily increase it, but at least keep it more or less the same, I obviously choose the 2nd one.
...
Are you being legit..
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 09, 2017, 11:08:27 pm
>putting real professors in the same boat as social studies professors
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 10, 2017, 01:13:26 am
But lets face it. Probably just the DNC and George Soros sending "donations" to all of the universities across the western world.

That's a good boy. Give him a biscuit, Duuring.

Nobody is even talking about social studies.

Its amazing how the Frankfurt School keeps triggering right wingers to this day.

Lol troled agen by the anarcho arab
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on February 10, 2017, 03:29:58 am
>putting real professors in the same boat as social studies professors

I am assuming that most Professors actually do something useful. You know, Physics, Math, History and stuff.

Well, a lot of people now days take stupid uni courses like Religious Studies, Gender Studies and shit like that. They are bound to produce leftist thoughts simply because of the very natures of courses in contrast with right-wing ideals. Useless courses, but its what people take. Actual scientist are left leaning generally because conservative governments only care about science so long as they don't contradict the policy of their government. Trump clamping down on climate change is an example of this. If you're a professional on the subject, and you can clearly see the evidence of evolution or climate change. Why would you actively support a political party who refuses to accept these facts so as to not anger their constituents?

But lets face it. Probably just the DNC and George Soros sending "donations" to all of the universities across the western world.

Are they really? I know that at the local universities here, there are way to many people studying business/economy and stuff like that and way to few people studying anything actual sciency. A lot of people are afraid of Mathematics. Not saying economy is not science, but you get what I mean. Everyone is studying something business related and engineers and scientists are struggling to find replacements.
Overall, there are to many students, the universities are overflowing and a lot of jobs that do not require any higher education do not find enough workers. (I guess that's where refugees are supposed to step in or something, I don't know)

I am exaggerating ofc, its not all that bad, but this is where the current trend is leading to anyway.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on February 10, 2017, 04:02:24 am
I wonder if George Soros funded the Stalinist purges when he was 6?

Also, Fraudbear, you got me. I 100% though George Soros funded every university in the western world to turn them left.
Stellar meme.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 10, 2017, 04:13:54 am
>putting real professors in the same boat as social studies professors

I am assuming that most Professors actually do something useful. You know, Physics, Math, History and stuff.

Well, a lot of people now days take stupid uni courses like Religious Studies, Gender Studies and shit like that. They are bound to produce leftist thoughts simply because of the very natures of courses in contrast with right-wing ideals. Useless courses, but its what people take. Actual scientist are left leaning generally because conservative governments only care about science so long as they don't contradict the policy of their government. Trump clamping down on climate change is an example of this. If you're a professional on the subject, and you can clearly see the evidence of evolution or climate change. Why would you actively support a political party who refuses to accept these facts so as to not anger their constituents?

But lets face it. Probably just the DNC and George Soros sending "donations" to all of the universities across the western world.

Are they really? I know that at the local universities here, there are way to many people studying business/economy and stuff like that and way to few people studying anything actual sciency. A lot of people are afraid of Mathematics. Not saying economy is not science, but you get what I mean. Everyone is studying something business related and engineers and scientists are struggling to find replacements.
Overall, there are to many students, the universities are overflowing and a lot of jobs that do not require any higher education do not find enough workers. (I guess that's where refugees are supposed to step in or something, I don't know)

I am exaggerating ofc, its not all that bad, but this is where the current trend is leading to anyway.
1. Your definition of useful is loaded and completely uneducated.
2. You're ignoring a significant number of professors.
3. Either European universities are completely different than North American ones, your perspective sucks, or you're just completely mislead.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 10, 2017, 06:38:15 am
When you actually put effort in posting and no one responds to you. Feels bad man.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 10, 2017, 11:12:48 am
Calling Conway a "stormfag"

 ;D ;D ;D

Was there another incident on the train?  :'( Do tell us Fraud, we're here for you and your brave tales of fighting Islamophobia!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Hadhod on February 10, 2017, 12:11:38 pm
You can savely say that left tendencies have been in charge of the agenda setting in most of western society. And Campuses are mostly politically left, look at student movements and most professors. In Germany a mathematics prof was fired because he let his students calculate how likely it is that a terrorist is also a muslim.
As a student at a German university I can promise you there are most certainly right wing student movements and clubs. At my University there are at least 2 that are known for being right wing (not extremist, just very conservative) and 1 more is being rumoured to be too. I have to agree that there are more left leaning organisations around, though.
I don't know the circumstances of that incident with the teacher but whatever the reason, doing something like that (giving such a task to students) is just absolutely tasteless.

Quote
Again, those groups (or lesser groups) are (in my subjective view) in charge of agenda setting, or atleast the public media output follows a "left" mainstream. Since we are on a international forum this is hard to proof for all countries, so I can only talk about German media. For example, media outlets were asked to not talk about the heritage if they reported any sort of crime related to immigrants.

This, again, is NOT the case for all media outlets. You can see tendencys though.
Who asked the media to not publish heritage? Leftist extremists? Certainly not. It was probably the government to prevent any more right wing hate crimes like there have been a ton of in Saxony with the refugee camp burnings.

Quote
There is a difference between actually discussing different opinions (wich is sometimes happening here) and outright refusing to listen to someone because you assume you have the moral highground(wich is happening here most of the time, from BOTH sides).
Unlike you most right wing people are brainwashed into oblivion and refuse to listen to any arguments. I very rarely encounter left wing extremists on the internet but they are the same, I guess the internet is just an outlet for all the hate people don't dare to let lose in public.

Quote
I know its a shitty personal experience argument, but every time I try to talk about the problems that occur with bringing over a million immigrants into your country in less then 2 years I get called a nazi or im being "intolerant".
That is unfortunately a very German problem, undoubtedly fueled by our past. Yes there are problems with the way the situation was handled, but I am proud of our chancellor, that she as the only western leader stood up for the principles, morals and values the EU stands for. Sure we could have closed our doors and not let people in, after all it's not our problem if they all die in their puny conflict down there, right? But that goes against everything we have been trying to achieve in Europe for the past 70 years.
I have talked to refugees, my parents are taking care of a family from Afghanistan/Pakistan who fled here, because they married against their family's wishes. The husband got beaten up, shot and stabbed multiple times (nearly deaf and blind, broken bones all over, permanent limp). And no they were not poor, they owned a general goods store before they fled the country, but what does money mean if you have to fear for your and your family's safety. If we are closing the gates to people like them who have done nothing to deserve their fate, how can we say we are for human dignity, for the equality of men, for liberty...
Sure there are problems and yes, there will be even more problems in the future for Germany because we showed empathy and "loved our neighbour". But I rather have these problems than become an intolerant (and yes I think the word is applicable here unlike in your case) society like Hungary or Poland who turn away from the values of the western world to "protect" what's left of their shitty nationalistic countries.

Quote
Yeah sure, the left is just more intelligent than the right! Not like the left EVER ignores facts right?!  *stares at obvious issues with mass immigration* ::)
Look at the the people who vote AfD and march with Pegida and you have your answer.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 10, 2017, 12:27:33 pm
Could you give me links to these "tons" of camp burnings? I heard of Freital, but I wasnt aware of any others.

It was the goverment that told them to not publish heritage yes, but I still think it A: happened out of tendencies to protect ones own agenda and B: its not helping any actual public discussion about the topic.

Towards your bigger wall of text: I do not disagree with that. But I do believe that most of the people that came into our country are NOT infact fleeing from Muslim oppression or war but simply come here due it being a better style of living.

"Look at the the people who vote AfD and march with Pegida and you have your answer."
Look at the Amadeus Antonio Stiftung and Islam Apologists and you have the same.

My point is, extremists on both sides are shit, ad hominems are shit, lets look at facts instead:

Islam is homophobic

Islam is sexist
>Islam is not in lign with our basic rights

Many Immigrants are from radical muslim countries AND believe in Islam and the teachings of the Koran
>those people should not live here.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on February 10, 2017, 01:55:40 pm
1. Your definition of useful is loaded and completely uneducated.
2. You're ignoring a significant number of professors.
3. Either European universities are completely different than North American ones, your perspective sucks, or you're just completely mislead.

1.) Don't care. anything that involves your own opinion and is not primarily using the scientific method should not be featured on a PUBLIC university .
2.) I am ignoring a significant number of professors, I am not going to count all of the different fields people can specialise in.
3.) I guess they are, the whole educational system is different after all. But I don't know what exactly you are referring to, so I can not tell. I am sure they have a lot of things in common, but also a lot of differences.
Edit: As I am reading right now, there is a huge difference in funding in the US and Germany. (As I expected). German Universities are almost completely state funded, while in the US, some universities are almost completely privately funded. I guess you can see where that leads to. Also remember, Germany has no tuition fees, while the US has enormous fees.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Hadhod on February 10, 2017, 02:00:21 pm
Could you give me links to these "tons" of camp burnings? I heard of Freital, but I wasnt aware of any others.

It was the goverment that told them to not publish heritage yes, but I still think it A: happened out of tendencies to protect ones own agenda and B: its not helping any actual public discussion about the topic.

Towards your bigger wall of text: I do not disagree with that. But I do believe that most of the people that came into our country are NOT infact fleeing from Muslim oppression or war but simply come here due it being a better style of living.

"Look at the the people who vote AfD and march with Pegida and you have your answer."
Look at the Amadeus Antonio Stiftung and Islam Apologists and you have the same.

My point is, extremists on both sides are shit, ad hominems are shit, lets look at facts instead:
http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/auflistung-der-regierung-in-nrw-und-sachsen-gab-es-die-meisten-angriffe-auf-fluechtlingsheime/12955304.html
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fl%C3%BCchtlingsfeindliche_Angriffe_in_der_Bundesrepublik_Deutschland

I agree, it is not a good idea to keep heritage hidden, because it looks like the government is trying to be apologetic towards refugees, an argument that is often used in the context of discussion such as ours (like you just proved).

Yes, that might very well be the case, but who can blame them for that. If I was in their shoes, and don't see a way of living a good life in my country, I would certainly try to move to a better place as well. We have the  Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge (Federal Office for Migration and Refugees, BAMF) for that who decide the different cases. The family I described above will most likely be sent back to Afghanistan because they are not "fleeing from religious or political oppression". Just let that sink in, a man that got nearly beaten to death...

I have never heard of that Institution before but I agree Islam apologists (I hope we mean the same thing here, as you didn't define what exactly you mean with that) are a problem too. That however doesn't change the fact that the majority of right wing voters are under educated, unemployed people. I know what I am talking about I live in Mecklenburg Vorpommern where the AfD has 20% of the seats and guess what, MV is one of the poorest states with the 2nd highest unemployment rate in Germany (only surpassed by Bremen). Just compare the unemployment rates with the map of the voting outcomes last year.
https://statistik.arbeitsagentur.de/Navigation/Statistik/Statistik-nach-Regionen/Politische-Gebietsstruktur/Mecklenburg-Vorpommern-ab-09-2011-Nav.html
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article157951298/Ergebnisse-aller-Wahlkreise-in-Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.html

That we can agree on, extremism is never a good thing.

Quote
Islam is homophobic.
Yes, so is Christianity, but through internal reforms tolerance to homosexuals is starting to rise in the churches (especially in the Protestant churches).
Quote
Islam is sexist.
So is Christianity. Yet again the religion is trying to reform that.

Quote
Islam is not in line with our basic rights.
By your logic neither is Christianity. Should all Christians be deported then? I hope you see the logical fallacy here in your argument.

Quote
Many Immigrants are from radical muslim countries AND believe in Islam and the teachings of the Koran
>those people should not live here.
As long as these immigrants do not break the law while practising their religion they are allowed to keep their opinions and religion, that is part of our Grundgesetz (Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany), you know that. Your personal opinion whether or not Muslims belong to Germany is irrelevant in that matter.
I agree however that Islam, if it wants to coexist with other religions and atheists in the western world, is in dire need of reforms or it will further the already exists conflicts.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 10, 2017, 02:16:12 pm
Hadhod we are not really disagreeing are we? You are simply raising the point that Christianity is also bad(wich I agree with, while also stating that most Christians dont really practice their religion) and that we shouldnt blame people for trying to improve their condition of life. Still, dont disagree with that.

Quote
Quote
Islam is homophobic.
Yes, so is Christianity, but through internal reforms tolerance to homosexuals is starting to rise in the churches (especially in the Protestant churches).

"Islam is homophobic!" "Yea, but protestantism is reforming though!" wat

You should inform yourself about the Amadeus Antonio Stiftung, its led by an Ex Stasi Member is basically the tip of the cancer berg that is radical SJW´s :^)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Hadhod on February 10, 2017, 02:31:38 pm
Hadhod we are not really disagreeing are we? You are simply raising the point that Christianity is also bad(wich I agree with, while also stating that most Christians dont really practice their religion) and that we shouldnt blame people for trying to improve their condition of life. Still, dont disagree with that.
Then I must have articulated myself wrongly here. I didn't say Christianity is bad, I stated that parts of the Christian believes are outdated (thus bad) and should therefore be reformed (like the anti homosexual part you mentioned).

Quote
"Islam is homophobic!" "Yea, but protestantism is reforming though!" wat
I should have probably quoted if altogether to make for easier formatting. With those comments I was trying to say that Christianity and its values (whatever you may think of it) is/are an integral part even of today's western society despite being old. That is because it was reformed time and time again. Islam needs these reforms too or in the long run western ideology and Islam will not be able to coexist.
Despite Islam being outdated in many of its thoughts, being part of and living out that religion is not against the law, so as I said, your opinion whether or not Muslims should be allowed in Germany is not relevant. You can't simply disallow religion that's not how our constitution works.

Quote
You should inform yourself about the Amadeus Antonio Stiftung, its led by an Ex Stasi Member is basically the tip of the cancer berg that is radical SJW´s :^)
They must be rather small to never make it into any news or talks I have read and had over the past years.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 11, 2017, 03:27:32 am
But lets face it. Probably just the DNC and George Soros sending "donations" to all of the universities across the western world.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/BB8wm2W.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/0NmIlfb.png)
[close]

Life isn't a videogame, stormfag. Soros is not the big meanie at the end.

Soros' little buddy was handpicked by Trump to effectively be in-charge of US Gov revenue.
how is he a stormfag? wat
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 11, 2017, 01:50:01 pm
But lets face it. Probably just the DNC and George Soros sending "donations" to all of the universities across the western world.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/BB8wm2W.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/0NmIlfb.png)
[close]

Life isn't a videogame, stormfag. Soros is not the big meanie at the end.

Soros' little buddy was handpicked by Trump to effectively be in-charge of US Gov revenue.
how is he a stormfag? wat
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/BAGkEIP.jpg)
Bottom-most book is an actual copy of Mein Kampf btw.
[close]
exdee
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 12, 2017, 09:16:31 am
Good man Conway, you're getting yourself a proper education with books like that.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 12, 2017, 02:07:18 pm
I'm disappointed. Apparently Trump is a fascist but we haven't sent out the death squads or burned any books yet.

Starting to regret my vote  :'( woulda been nice to burn required reading for class cause its evil.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 12, 2017, 03:23:52 pm
Apparently Trump is a fascist
I don't get it?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 12, 2017, 05:35:21 pm
I'm disappointed. Apparently Trump is a fascist but we haven't sent out the death squads or burned any books yet.

Starting to regret my vote  :'( woulda been nice to burn required reading for class cause its evil.
I've been sitting here with my Hitler Youth uniform, Art Of The Deal, and MAGA hat for a while. When're you invading Canada? I'm getting impatient.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 12, 2017, 09:39:50 pm
I'm disappointed. Apparently Trump is a fascist but we haven't sent out the death squads or burned any books yet.

Starting to regret my vote  :'( woulda been nice to burn required reading for class cause its evil.
I've been sitting here with my Hitler Youth uniform, Art Of The Deal, and MAGA hat for a while. When're you invading Canada? I'm getting impatient.
soon... make sure your fashy goy haircut is in regs
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 12, 2017, 09:59:58 pm
If you kill your enemies they win, so joke is on the US if it invades Canada.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 12, 2017, 11:21:48 pm
If you kill your enemies they win, so joke is on the US if it invades Canada.
We're gonna go all 1812 on their asses
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 13, 2017, 05:12:39 am
If you kill your enemies they win, so joke is on the US if it invades Canada.
We're gonna go all 1812 on their asses

Nah the Brits will side with us this time. We all know deep down they wanna restore their empire.

Don't worry tho. Once we Anschluss Canada, we can go retake Constantinople and the Holy Land together. #MakeWesternCivilizationGreatAgain
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 13, 2017, 10:56:15 am
Still no anarcho faggots though
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 13, 2017, 10:59:20 am
Anyone wanna take Fraudbears bait to make him feel better? He has been trying so hard, I almost feel bad for him :'(

Hey Fraudbear, if it means anything, there is a small part of me that cares a little bit that he doesn't listen to bunch of unproven people with no connections at all.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 13, 2017, 12:53:58 pm
Also I am getting saltier by the minute on the immigration restrictions being shot down in the 9th Circuit Court

Spoiler

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182

(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.

(side note, i like how it assumes his gender *triggered*)
[close]

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on February 13, 2017, 09:22:31 pm
Cuz ya know, fuck the constitution, am i right guy!?!?

Trump can't just do whatever he wants. These judges are meant to uphold the constitution and that's what they did.

Fuckin right wingers always go on about how they want to protect the constitution cuz 'muh rights are bein violated' yet have no idea what the constitution actually fucking says. It says a lot more than just 'freedom of speech' and 'muh guns.'
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 13, 2017, 10:47:16 pm
Enlighten us. What's the constitutional explanation
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on February 13, 2017, 11:06:00 pm
It violates Due Process and Equal Protection under the constitution.

Essentially why this violates these two things is because the people within the banned countries did not commit a crime against the united states (maybe a few individuals but not the general populous) and therefore do not deserve repercussions as a result. There are various other legal arguments that you can approach from, all a little different from each other, yet they all seem to stem from Due Process and Equal Protection. I don't pretend to be a lawyer but I am a poli-sci major which is typically seen as a  prerequisite to law. The simple fact that the courts denied trump's EO just proves my point.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 13, 2017, 11:14:00 pm
It would have cost any politician's their career had they done something like this.
Looks like the Americans really did become sheep. And the EU is jsut here to sit back, relax and enjoy the comedy.

That is, until the Russians invade Poland and we're like Tywin Lannister on a privy.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on February 13, 2017, 11:21:17 pm
And the EU is jsut here to sit back, relax and enjoy the comedy.

Hardly. We have our folks of that calibre like Le Pen and Wilders. Le Penn is facing some serious scandals, while Wilders has started flinging mud at his opponents.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 13, 2017, 11:22:16 pm
That doesn't make sense. From my understanding of the US Consitution, it applies to all citizens and immigrants on US soil, but not potential immigrants. If I'm wrong tell me why, but it seems to me that unless there's some explanatory precedent, everything that the US Consitution protects is applicable for people legally citizens or on US territory.
About the court- doesn't that 9th circuit have a 20 percent success rate in the Supreme Court?
This article may be applicable
Spoiler
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2001/09/do_noncitizens_have_constitutional_rights.html
[close]
. Also, while a POLS degree is seen as a prereq for law, it's a really half-assed justification. Don't do that shit, that's just weak af.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on February 13, 2017, 11:31:19 pm
It violates Due Process and Equal Protection under the constitution.

Essentially why this violates these two things is because the people within the banned countries did not commit a crime against the united states (maybe a few individuals but not the general populous) and therefore do not deserve repercussions as a result. There are various other legal arguments that you can approach from, all a little different from each other, yet they all seem to stem from Due Process and Equal Protection. I don't pretend to be a lawyer but I am a poli-sci major which is typically seen as a  prerequisite to law. The simple fact that the courts denied trump's EO just proves my point.
Just curious, where does the American Constitution extend to foreign nationals who aren't even in our country and therefore have no protections from the American Constitution? I would think no where because the American constitution applies to people within the United States only. Although it's something else to say that America apparently claims the entire world as it's own? I guess the Illuminati plot to enslave us goes deeper than I thought

It would have cost any politician's their career had they done something like this.
Looks like the Americans really did become sheep. And the EU is jsut here to sit back, relax and enjoy the comedy.
Yes, enjoy your comedy as Europe destroys itself with dindu nuffin arabs protected by the left and the MSM  but yes, lecture us on how we are sheep for wanting to control who comes into our country and actually trying to address the problem that is Radical Islamic Terrorism and its implications
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 14, 2017, 01:17:19 am
Fuckin right wingers always go on about how they want to protect the constitution cuz 'muh rights are bein violated' yet have no idea what the constitution actually fucking says. It says a lot more than just 'freedom of speech' and 'muh guns.'

Dems were nice and quiet when Obama did it, yet Republicans are the ones who pick and choose when to speak up?

And the EU is jsut here to sit back, relax and enjoy the comedy.

Ha, ha, ha, ha What a jape.

Doesn't the Constitution also grant to freedom of religion? Isn't targeting one specific religion or prioritizing one over another a breach of that? The ban on refugees is stupid anyways. Not one single refugee has committed an act of terror. Meanwhile people continue to die in Syria while the alt-right works to send refugees back into the war zone.

It certainly does... except this isn't targeting a religion, it's targeting countries riddled with home grown terrorism.  There are tons more of Muslim countries, and while no attacks have taken place recently caused by terrorists from the banned countries there have been plenty of arrests based on grounds of planned terrorism.

Meanwhile people continue to die in Syria while the alt-right works to send refugees back into the war zone.

You don't need to travel across a fucking ocean to escape the danger of ISIS, who are terrorists fighting for control of the middle east. I'd understand if T-1000 was after them, but you're being plain naive if you don't question the motives of them traveling so far, especially to a country which was founded on ideals the exact opposite of that of America.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 14, 2017, 01:39:14 am
Saying it's unconstitutional is the most hilarious thing I have ever heard.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182

(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.

Obama used said power 19 times. Think Bush only used it 12 times.

BUT OH MAH GAWD TRUMP IS A FASCIST, NO RESPECT FOR THE LAW.

Not only does the US Constitution really only apply to those within the United States/Citizens of the US. Not only is it not a ban on religion (therefore not even a violation of Freedom of Religion), it wouldn't even matter if it was.

Fucking Hack judges. There is no fucking debate to be had. No wonder their decisions almost always get overturned in the Supreme Court, where they actually care about the law.

I think he could (and if he can, he should) have those judges arrested legally. Think Lincoln did that to judges who undermined his executive authority like that.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 14, 2017, 02:04:49 am
That paragraph is a mine of hypocrisy. There's a lot of random fluff added in, but I'll pick out the highlights:

He has stated that Christians will be given priority which would? 
(...)
The whole prospect behind refugees it that they are fleeing away from a conflict or persecution to find a better life.


Exactly, it's the CHRISTIANS that are facing conflict directed at them and are being persecuted, not typical Islamic refugees from Africa (or the stray Muslim from Syria). Christians are the ones who are being marched through towns and having their buses and transport stormed and cleansed.

It's safe to safe ISIS are killing everyone and anyone regardless of their creed, but there are many groups operating in the middle east and those selecting their targets do generally seem to be specifically going after Christians. Christians make the most legitimate refugees, and I can understand why Trump is willing to let them in. They will be much easier to integrate into society, also.

It's far to out there of an idea to think that they are leaving the middle east because to specifically enact terrorism against the U.S. People are not risking their lives in crossing the Mediterranean to blow up a church.

You deploying the "they're coming here for safety!" rhetoric isn't exactly valid speculation behind their motive, either. The Trump administration's ability to recognise that the majority of refugees may be coming to America for things such as the living conditions offered as a result of the sympathetic outlook of refugee status should not be criticized but applauded - we've seen what damage the open door policy can do when enacted by governments too cowardly to address or even slightly vet anyone claiming to be a refugee (like what's going on in your beloved Europe).

That's why Irish people fled to to the U.S rather then France. That's why Jews fled to the U.S rather then France if they were given the chance. If your life is shit, try to find the best one you can.

The ideology of the Irish and Jewish is a hell of a lot different than that of a Muslim. Are you really comparing the refugee crisis to the holocaust? Jesus Christ, tone down the rhetoric and start being rational, please.

If your life is shit, try to find the best one you can.

Nice to see you being so tolerant of people abusing poorly designed government policies when they're a creation of the left. Instead of being angry at your government you choose to applaud these "clever" men, "good job getting a better life living off the fruits of the tax payer's labour!"

You're a fucking terrible socialist.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on February 14, 2017, 02:26:33 am
Christians make the most legitimate refugees, and I can understand why Trump is willing to let them in. They will be much easier to integrate into society, also.

It certainly does... except this isn't targeting a religion

So you're saying...it isn't targetting a specific religion...but at the same time certain people from certain religions are/should be exempt? Mind elaborating on that?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 14, 2017, 02:38:27 am
I wasn't saying if the Christians were in more or less danger. 1) It's without a doubt that they are in more. 2) I was debating the legality of specifically accepting Christian's above people in equal danger.

1) The Christians are in more danger than the other refugees

2) The Christians are in equal danger

Checkmate. Where's Duuring? Can I face the boss battle already?

I was debating the legality of specifically accepting Christian's above people in equal danger.

Quote from: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.

It's not really a matter of religion, but more so of ideology and interest. And it's legal, yes.

So you're saying...it isn't targetting a specific religion...but at the same time certain people from certain religions are/should be exempt? Mind elaborating on that?

You say "targetting" as if they're being persecuted; the people coming from the selected Muslim majorities are being vetted/denied, not executed.

Again, the president reserves the right to ban entry of aliens who "would be detrimental to the interests of the United States", and there's plenty of fuel to feed the argument that those brought up with the extreme Muslim beliefs displayed in those 7 countries inherently are.


Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 14, 2017, 03:01:34 am
>Does things for Christians
>muh voter base
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 14, 2017, 03:05:42 am
But Rick, taking in one person above another based on his religious orientation is infringing on the separation of state and religion. It means that the government favors one faith over another.

You might have an argument if Christianity wasn't the semi-native and current majority religion, and if Islam didn't work against the interests and national belief of freedom.

You don't have to be American to realise the beliefs and interests of America stem from the objection of control from undemocratic rule like we would see under sharia.

I suggest you read:
http://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

and decide for yourself whether the US should take in Muslims who come from a more extremist background when there's clearly already a problem with a decent amount of American Muslims who believe Sharia should be put in place and that Muslims should be governed separately by it.

Trump probably doesn't give to fucks about the Christians over there. Any money its just to appeal to the largely Christian Republican voting demographic but then again, its not like any other president did things better.

Well, I know better not to argue or speculate around the psychology of Trump...

But Rick,

Don't make this personal, I'm sure we could share some politically incorrect banter about immigration over a pint. Maybe one day.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 14, 2017, 03:22:44 am
You've actually always been "Commie Conway" in my mind, Conway was in fact a nickname. You deserve better, let me think on it.

As for my name, I reeee internally whenever someone calls me "RickPerry", so thanks for not doing that at least. I actually often forget I'm even called GovernorRickPerry sometimes; he was the original extremist rightwinger, but the media was actually smart and ignored him. He's a bit of an old meme now tbh.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 14, 2017, 03:23:16 am
The American constitutions, like all constitutions, applies to everyone who is on the territory of the US. Not just citizens. Not only does it not apply to non-citizens outside of the US (obviously) it also don't apply to US citizens outside of the United States (once again, pretty obvious)

Fact is that Trump's ban bans people from countries whose nationals have not killed an American citizen in a terrorist attack since, I think, 1975. Anyway, it's a badly written executive order as it is unclear and ambigious. Executive agencies had no real clear idea what they were supposed to and foreign governments had no idea whether it could apply to their immigrant citizen.

Is the ban unconstitutional? Seems so, or else the courts would not have suspended it. Trump is of course in his full right to appeal, but he openly questioned the legitimacy of the courts. Why? It doesn't help his case. It won't speed up his appeal. It certainly won't make other judges more likely to accept his actions and it certainly doesn't change anything about the wording of the Constitution. What people sorta forget is that it's the courts that decide on unconstitutionality. You can make a great case on how it is, but that doesn't change the fact that by American legislature, the Supreme Court has that final say. If they say something about the constitution, it automatically becomes law until overturned by that same court. Our interpretation of law changes overtime. Nobody felt that 'All men are created equal' applied to Negro's, women or natives when it was written. Yet that line is still there, and rights are derived from it.

Tl;dr, deciding whether it's unconstitutional is not really up to us. Deciding whether it's morally right of course is.

What pains me the most is that apparantly, allowing people that worked as translators for the US Armed Forces into the country is 'detrimental to the interests of the United States'. Why did his order not make an exception to this? Why are people who endanger the lives of themselves and their families a danger to the United States? This just feels like plain injustice, and even if you do not agree with that, then consider the fact that not harbouring these people if their lives are in danger will make it very hard for the US to find new translators or other local support.

PS: apologies for any typo's or grammar mistakes, I worked a late shift and its like 3:30 in the morning.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 14, 2017, 03:46:23 am
Fact is that Trump's ban bans people from countries whose nationals have not killed an American citizen in a terrorist attack since, I think, 1975. Anyway, it's a badly written executive order as it is unclear and ambigious. Executive agencies had no real clear idea what they were supposed to and foreign governments had no idea whether it could apply to their immigrant citizen.

Why does there have to have been an attack to justify the ban? The US has been extremely paranoid since 9/11. The mass surveillance is straight out of  Theresa May's wet dream etc, and many terrorists have been apprehended before attacking from Trump's 7. 

http://cis.org/vaughan/study-reveals-72-terrorists-came-countries-covered-trump-vetting-order

Tl;dr, deciding whether it's unconstitutional is not really up to us.

I completely agree. Although letting the 9th Circuit Court decide - a liberal court governing a massive liberal majority - should CERTAINLY not decide either.

Deciding whether it's morally right of course is.

That's entirely subjective though, how could that ever be set in stone?

What pains me the most is that apparantly, allowing people that worked as translators for the US Armed Forces into the country is 'detrimental to the interests of the United States'. Why did his order not make an exception to this? Why are people who endanger the lives of themselves and their families a danger to the United States? This just feels like plain injustice, and even if you do not agree with that, then consider the fact that not harbouring these people if their lives are in danger will make it very hard for the US to find new translators or other local support.


This is actually very interesting. I don't consider them "heroes" however I agree that they should be except to the extreme vetting that is probably unnecessary. However, I can empathise with Trump on how cases like Ali Mohammed - an example of a translator gone rogue who committed extremely serious crimes on US territory - puts him in a fairly awkward position.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 14, 2017, 04:31:23 am
Pls, no Commie. Centre-Left at a worst. I'm completely centrist concerning Canadian politics. I'd make an edgy fascist joke but I genuinely don't know if you'd object ;)

Hey, I'm no fascist but you can't knock it; it worked perfectly fine for the Nazis, and only failed because of the Communists   ;D
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 14, 2017, 04:49:35 am
Yup, I suspect so :'(
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 14, 2017, 05:26:14 am
Pls, no Commie. Centre-Left at a worst. I'm completely centrist concerning Canadian politics. I'd make an edgy fascist joke but I genuinely don't know if you'd object ;)

Hey, I'm no fascist but you can't knock it; it worked perfectly fine for the Nazis, and only failed because of the Communists   ;D
The fact that they fought the communists displays in itself the inherit flaws of fascism. The high command knew it would be a stretch but the risks didn't matter. Things might have been ok if he didn't lose his mind from 1940 onwards.
imblying gommies should not be killed at all costs
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic2.fjcdn.com%2Fcomments%2F5388852%2B_9aabe662d8f5666c19daa05b4d0de649.jpg&hash=e231221750841a564b9bf97faa99e17ecf723283)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 14, 2017, 10:33:50 am
You say we can't debate the legality, that it is up to the courts Duuring. However, the law is pretty fucking crystal clear on its intent and purpose. (Not gonna repost it for a 3rd time). Also courts are all about precedent and when basically every president since like 1952 has used that particular law at one point or another, I would say the courts know damn well how legal it is.

Iirc, the Judges based their ruling on the fact that they saw no evidence of terrorism from nationals of the countries on the ban, and banning them would be detrimental to the interests of the United States (all those Somali brain surgeons, amirite?). That's all well and good, and they could bring that to a debate on the morality of the order. However, no part of the law even politely asks a judge for his opinion on the matter. It leaves the decision up to the PRESIDENT.

It was an ideological power play meant to delay the order. Trump can still say "F U" and implement it anyway, but now he'd look like a massive douchebag if he did. So while he has to rewrite the order or appeal, which can take months, we have nationals from those countries flooding in before the floodgates close.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 14, 2017, 12:13:39 pm

Yes, enjoy your comedy as Europe destroys itself with dindu nuffin arabs protected by the left and the MSM  but yes, lecture us on how we are sheep for wanting to control who comes into our country and actually trying to address the problem that is Radical Islamic Terrorism and its implications

funny you bring that up. Somehow terrorism gets all the attention nowadays. Stll it's no more or less a factual problem than it was 10 years ago - when immigration wasn't an item, an defense budget cuts were massively happening throughout Europe.

The anti-terrorism campaign and the 'radical islam problem' is no more than fearmongering. Terrorism ahsn't ever, is currently not and probably won't ever be an actual threat to the stability of Western countries. I'll start worrying when something like that kills more people than traffic accidents.

Spoiler
Oh wait. Guns do in the US. Makes one think, doesn't it?
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on February 14, 2017, 12:20:04 pm
Since "Merkled opened the doors" (Which she did not btw... The law was already there,) nothing has changed for me... I have not seen any difference. Most people still talk German, the infrastructure has not collapsed, public schools still function, the military and police still have a budget, the courts still function, there have been no real terrorist attacks (Unless you count 2 random dudes with a machete and a dude with a truck as major terrorist attack...), there are not 1000000 million of refugees roaming the streets, women can still go out at night without getting robbed, stabbed or raped...

Edit:
In response to riddlez:

Yeah, I was thinking the same. There are like a billion gun murders every day in the US. There are huge gang wars and entire city blocks owned by gangs. There are city blocks that a non-gang member should not visit and the US has a huge drug problem and has way to much debt to be believable. (Sure I am exaggerating, it is not like that everywhere, but still, you know it is at least partly true) Yet the US people think that refugees are killing Europe, where practically none of the shit noted above is happening.



 
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 14, 2017, 12:39:44 pm
Quote
Although letting the 9th Circuit Court decide - a liberal court governing a massive liberal majority - should CERTAINLY not decide either.

But they should. That's their legal right, apparantly. The US system of political judges is pretty bad regardless.

Quote
However, no part of the law even politely asks a judge for his opinion on the matter. It leaves the decision up to the PRESIDENT.

He doesn't have too. If someone appeals, even if it's a 18-year-old bicycle repairman from up-state New York, the courts can judge the law. Allowing judges only to review a law if asked for by the initiator of the law (or rather, executive order in this example) is doing away completely with checks and balances.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 14, 2017, 01:20:09 pm
Don't think Judges really care about checks and balances. They are not elected, and apparently they can do whatever the hell with the law they want to if someone challenges it at all.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on February 14, 2017, 01:21:56 pm
The fact the office of President, the head of the executive branch, can appoint members of the supreme court, members of the judiciary branch, already shows that Checks and Balances in the US is a damn joke.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 14, 2017, 02:02:35 pm
..what? That's a pretty retarded thing to say. Because one branch appoints (but has no power over) another branch that shows that the "checks and balances in the US is a joke"?
Just stop talking idiocy.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 14, 2017, 02:45:30 pm
Since "Merkled opened the doors" (Which she did not btw... The law was already there,) nothing has changed for me... I have not seen any difference. Most people still talk German, the infrastructure has not collapsed, public schools still function, the military and police still have a budget, the courts still function, there have been no real terrorist attacks (Unless you count 2 random dudes with a machete and a dude with a truck as major terrorist attack...), there are not 1000000 million of refugees roaming the streets, women can still go out at night without getting robbed, stabbed or raped...

Edit:
In response to riddlez:

Yeah, I was thinking the same. There are like a billion gun murders every day in the US. There are huge gang wars and entire city blocks owned by gangs. There are city blocks that a non-gang member should not visit and the US has a huge drug problem and has way to much debt to be believable. (Sure I am exaggerating, it is not like that everywhere, but still, you know it is at least partly true) Yet the US people think that refugees are killing Europe, where practically none of the shit noted above is happening.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1_rNT3k2ZXB-f9z-2nSFMIBQKXCs&hl=en_US&ll=51.36119443931468%2C6.969721633496192&z=6

Just because nothing has changed for you doesnt mean there arent problems.

Go to the social workers, the teachers in schools that are placed inside of ghettos, talk with them. A Female Friend of mine was just recently harassed by refugess. There are issues. Lots of them. And people like you are the reason why we cant talk about them in a way that is able to prevent them.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 14, 2017, 02:50:09 pm
Yet the US people think that refugees are killing Europe, where practically none of the shit noted above is happening.

They're certainly killing the tourism industry, especially in places like France and Turkey. And again in France they are quite literally roaming the streets and making a mess.

As for killing the continent, nah, they're just speeding things up. The EU is a ticking time bomb, a disaster waiting to destroy eventually destroy Europe (or at least the prominent member states). It's led by the Germans too, go figure.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1_rNT3k2ZXB-f9z-2nSFMIBQKXCs&hl=en_US&ll=51.36119443931468%2C6.969721633496192&z=6

L  O   L

Jokes aside, thank fuck we're burning the bridge.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cara on February 14, 2017, 03:00:18 pm
Yet the US people think that refugees are killing Europe, where practically none of the shit noted above is happening.

They're certainly killing the tourism industry, especially in places like France and Turkey. And again in France they are quite literally roaming the streets and making a mess.

What ? I suppose after all Fox News knows better about my country than myself
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 14, 2017, 03:30:48 pm
Carabino, whenever you post here it's always some rhetoric about Fox News that has little to no relevance to the current discussion. Grow the fuck up
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 14, 2017, 03:33:07 pm
Yet the US people think that refugees are killing Europe, where practically none of the shit noted above is happening.

They're certainly killing the tourism industry, especially in places like France and Turkey. And again in France they are quite literally roaming the streets and making a mess.

What ? I suppose after all Fox News knows better about my country than myself

shut up and give money whitey

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb3rNkkCAJY
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cara on February 14, 2017, 03:39:02 pm
Carabino, whenever you post here it's always some rhetoric about Fox News that has little to no relevance to the current discussion. Grow the fuck up

That's funny. I mention it because all I see here about France is some no-go zones alarmist shit. Didn't need a forum achievement to grow up don't worry.

Yet the US people think that refugees are killing Europe, where practically none of the shit noted above is happening.

They're certainly killing the tourism industry, especially in places like France and Turkey. And again in France they are quite literally roaming the streets and making a mess.

What ? I suppose after all Fox News knows better about my country than myself

shut up and give money whitey

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb3rNkkCAJY
[close]

Yeah this video was taken after a police evacuation of a illegal camp. Sure it's a mess. All this because of the Touquet agreement putting UK-France border in France for all the illegal immigrants who wants to go to the UK. I hope with your departure from the EU we will be free from all this shit and let them freely take a boat to the UK ;)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 14, 2017, 03:42:21 pm
I've been to France several times since 2015 and they were roaming the streets and roads of Calais in large numbers on each occasion, screaming at cars and trying to jump on lorries etc. I also saw make-shift camps in Central Paris with tents, litter everywhere, men hanging around in groups and so on. I didn't see any women, maybe a child or two but >95% were grown men. Never been to Germany, however a German friend of mine (a lawyer who I studied with in the UK and now works for regional government) told me last year the refugee system was close to collapse-they're still dealing with a massive backlog of cases and the average wait for a migrant to be seen to have their claim assessed was over a month.

Now of course Olafson claims everything is fine, though if that's the case then why was Merkel so keen to do that deal with Erdogan to close the borders?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 14, 2017, 03:52:56 pm
The fact the office of President, the head of the executive branch, can appoint members of the supreme court, members of the judiciary branch, already shows that Checks and Balances in the US is a damn joke.

It's the very definition of a check-and-balance. One power (The president) nominates another power (the judiciary) and that appointment is refused or accepted by the third power (Congress). The judiciary then reviews decisions made by the other two powers independent from them.

PVV lost like 5 seats in the polls. Oh boy.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 14, 2017, 04:20:32 pm

Yes, enjoy your comedy as Europe destroys itself with dindu nuffin arabs protected by the left and the MSM  but yes, lecture us on how we are sheep for wanting to control who comes into our country and actually trying to address the problem that is Radical Islamic Terrorism and its implications

funny you bring that up. Somehow terrorism gets all the attention nowadays. Stll it's no more or less a factual problem than it was 10 years ago - when immigration wasn't an item, an defense budget cuts were massively happening throughout Europe.

The anti-terrorism campaign and the 'radical islam problem' is no more than fearmongering. Terrorism ahsn't ever, is currently not and probably won't ever be an actual threat to the stability of Western countries. I'll start worrying when something like that kills more people than traffic accidents.

Spoiler
Oh wait. Guns do in the US. Makes one think, doesn't it?
[close]
This may be one of the most cucked things I've ever seen. I legitimately feel bad for you and hope that you continue to live in peaceful blissful ignorance for the rest of your life. I sincerely hope that this was a bait for the sake of all Europe
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2Fu2UfU%2F247940fd38.jpg&hash=a83be8d6cf32dff24b045eb935e34b13959c9a62)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 14, 2017, 04:27:57 pm
Terrorism is on a all-time-low in Europe, though. Political terrorism was more active and and more deadly in the seventies and eighties. Can immigration or radical islam lead to problems that we must overcome? Yeah, sure. But it isn't going to destroy the system. It's just going to cost some money.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 14, 2017, 04:29:06 pm
Money that simply isn't there.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 14, 2017, 04:35:50 pm
But it isn't going to destroy the system. It's just going to cost some money.

You're probably the least qualified person on this thread to make such a bold statement. Do you honestly ever learn?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 14, 2017, 05:08:10 pm
Money that simply isn't there.
Gotta disagree there. Its just not being spent properly. The current German administration is doing the so called "Schwarze Null", meaning they are trying to spent the least possible amount of money, wich not only hurts immigration but also infrastructure and such.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 14, 2017, 05:24:35 pm
But it isn't going to destroy the system. It's just going to cost some money.

You're probably the least qualified person on this thread to make such a bold statement. Do you honestly ever learn?

Explain to me how it's going to 'destroy' the system.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 14, 2017, 05:41:02 pm

Yes, enjoy your comedy as Europe destroys itself with dindu nuffin arabs protected by the left and the MSM  but yes, lecture us on how we are sheep for wanting to control who comes into our country and actually trying to address the problem that is Radical Islamic Terrorism and its implications

funny you bring that up. Somehow terrorism gets all the attention nowadays. Stll it's no more or less a factual problem than it was 10 years ago - when immigration wasn't an item, an defense budget cuts were massively happening throughout Europe.

The anti-terrorism campaign and the 'radical islam problem' is no more than fearmongering. Terrorism ahsn't ever, is currently not and probably won't ever be an actual threat to the stability of Western countries. I'll start worrying when something like that kills more people than traffic accidents.

Spoiler
Oh wait. Guns do in the US. Makes one think, doesn't it?
[close]
This may be one of the most cucked things I've ever seen. I legitimately feel bad for you and hope that you continue to live in peaceful blissful ignorance for the rest of your life. I sincerely hope that this was a bait for the sake of all Europe

Please provide actual arguments as to why I am so horribly wrong like you suggest. Sure the point of traffic accidents is an exaggeration (and is a loose interpretation of Israel's defence minister during the second intifada) but my point still stands.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 14, 2017, 05:43:01 pm
Did I imply it was going to "destroy the system"? No, I believe the system will suffer greatly for years to come. I think the cost will be much more severe than "some money" looking at the long term situation.

Maybe you should reel it in a bit, I was reminding you that your predictions and hindsight have never been correct.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 14, 2017, 07:06:57 pm
Terrorism is on a all-time-low in Europe, though. Political terrorism was more active and and more deadly in the seventies and eighties. Can immigration or radical islam lead to problems that we must overcome? Yeah, sure. But it isn't going to destroy the system. It's just going to cost some money.

Source?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 14, 2017, 07:18:08 pm
https://qz.com/558597/charted-terror-attacks-in-western-europe-from-the-1970s-to-now/

I'm gonna try and steer the discussion back to the elections: Several polls were published in the last few days and all of them show a steep decline of the PVV, of 5 to 7 seats. One poll puts them already behind the Conservative Liberals. This is the biggest loss or gain for any party since maybe as much as a year. Not really sure what caused it, though.

PVV and VVD made a deal that both of them would not go to one of the biggest TV-debates of the campaign (and the first) if more then four parties were invited. The TV-channel did invite another party (The Greens) and so they refused to come. The debate was cancelled, but after some fierce public reaction it is now back on, with the five parties: The Christian-Democrats, the Social-Liberals, the Greens, the Social-democrats and the Socialists. A time for the Christian-Democrats and Social-Liberals to sweep up some right-wing votes and an opportunity for one of the left-wing parties to get ahead.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 14, 2017, 07:21:06 pm
I also read that your current PM won't work with Wilders. True?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 14, 2017, 07:27:13 pm
Isnt the whole issue that most of us have the we fear that the terrorism attack will go up if we dont do anything?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 14, 2017, 07:34:39 pm
I also read that your current PM won't work with Wilders. True?

He made a statement that, roughly translated, he has zero expectation of such a coalition working. Which some people felt was ambigious because this meant he would consider the possibility. The entire campaign strategy of his party is

1. Become more populist to appeal to Wilder-voters
2. Tell the rest that you are the only alternative and try to gain strategic voting (aka voting for them to make sure the PVV doesn't become the biggest). There has been some critique on this strategy from political scientists because there isn't really any need for strategic voting in our system. There are no spoiled votes in our PR-system and no party can win a majority in parliament.

Will Rutte eventually do form a coalition with Wilders? Who knows. It certainly isn't impossible. Based on current polls, the alternative would be a coalition of at least 5 parties and maybe even six.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on February 14, 2017, 07:41:54 pm
Prime Minister Rutte and the right wing Liberals are facing a serious credibility issue, which other parties could exploit. Rutte already promised everyone that they would save a 1000 euros a year total through reducing taxes, costs, whatever. That was 2012 and none of this actually happened, which people certainly haven't forgotten. And now the scandal with the Teevendeal goes on again. He has lost a lot of credibility. Plus, his budget cuts have seriously damaged the healthcare sector, which might not be taken lightly by some.

Wilders and his PVV on the other hand is losing momentum. Trump's succes uplifted him but that storm of emotions has subsided. I happen to have known some people that were seriously considering voting for him and funnily enough all of them said that they were shunned away by his very agressive behaviour against Islam. It's one thing to want to close borders, but another to want to shut down Mosques and ban the selling of the Quran. Of course, their opinions are hardly representative for the general public that are considering him, but it's interesting to note. Plus, Wilders photoshopped a rival politician into a Pro-Islam protest photo and shared it as if it was fact. I don't think people will appreciate that kind of dishonesty and mud-flinging. But we'll see.

As for the left, the collapse of the social democrats has opened a vacuum. I don't think they'll be able to recover in time. Their post as the biggest left wing party might be taken by the Greens, which are doing extremely well in the polls the last few months. The Socialists are considered too polite and weak and the Social-Liberals are still considered too right wing for most pure leftist voters. Or we get a splintered left wing, that is also very much a possibility.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on February 14, 2017, 08:16:30 pm
I was more in fear of the Portuguese football fans burning down the city then I was of any of the Muslims selling key-chains while I was in France.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 14, 2017, 08:38:59 pm
My experience was the complete opposite - we cancel out :D
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 14, 2017, 08:53:56 pm
It pretty much all comes down where you were in France.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 14, 2017, 09:29:21 pm
The Eiffel Tower. So many illegal buskers, aggressively pushing wares on any timid looking English family. We noticed, though, that the closer we got to soldiers, the less the buskers pushed. A pair of them grabbed me and fast talked their way into (basically) mugging my dad.
Apart from that, the sheer amount of soldiers on the streets made us feel fairly safe.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 14, 2017, 09:51:25 pm
. We noticed, though, that the closer we got to soldiers, the less the buskers pushed.

Guns have that kind of effect on people.

Would hate it if it were to happen in my country though =|
It's a damn shame it's required in France


Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 14, 2017, 09:59:13 pm
Say what you want about the US, but when I've been there, I've always felt safe and haven't seen the visible signs of force I saw in Paris. Hell, Capitol Hill seemed less guarded than the Eiffel Tower (though it's really not)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on February 14, 2017, 10:24:06 pm
Canadian Parliament is less guarded then the Eiffel tower and Notre-Dame.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 14, 2017, 10:29:29 pm
Source? Post shooting the security is streamlined and more forceful
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 14, 2017, 11:02:20 pm
Hell, Capitol Hill seemed less guarded than the Eiffel Tower

Some people are of the opinion that the most succesfull security operations require only a few actual bodies on-site.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cara on February 14, 2017, 11:22:43 pm
The Eiffel Tower. So many illegal buskers, aggressively pushing wares on any timid looking English family. We noticed, though, that the closer we got to soldiers, the less the buskers pushed. A pair of them grabbed me and fast talked their way into (basically) mugging my dad.
Apart from that, the sheer amount of soldiers on the streets made us feel fairly safe.

Did you reach to police officers ? Actually I did a lot of patrols in this area (both in uniform and plain clothes) and I've never seen some muggin right under the Eiffel Tower. Mostly it's inoffensive illegal sellers (picked up every month but they come back, too much money to make with chineses tourists) and some gypsies pickpockets. However, I'm sorry if you had to live this.

Hell, Capitol Hill seemed less guarded than the Eiffel Tower

Some people are of the opinion that the most succesfull security operations require only a few actual bodies on-site.

I would say that the key is the combination of both. Uniforms, visible soldiers and stuff are needed for two reasons : make feel safe the civilians and attract possible attackers (as in the Louvre) or make them change their way to another area where there is CCTV/plain-clothes officers looking for them more discretly.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on February 15, 2017, 02:33:33 am
Source? Post shooting the security is streamlined and more forceful
I think they probably just ramped up guards and surveillance. Nortre-Dame has military patrols with assault rifles. The most you see at parliament is pistols.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 15, 2017, 05:02:41 am
Source? Post shooting the security is streamlined and more forceful
I think they probably just ramped up guards and surveillance. Nortre-Dame has military patrols with assault rifles. The most you see at parliament is pistols.
I read somewhere that SMG's were being deployed on-site.
Also, Riddlez, you're 100 percent correct
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 20, 2017, 08:07:27 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1_viPSD-bY
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 21, 2017, 12:01:45 am
Trump predicts future live on rally


http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/polis-skot-varningsskott-mot-stenkastare/

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/Lz524/polis-avlossade-varningsskott-mot-stenkastare-i-rinkeby
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on February 21, 2017, 01:07:18 am
Except it wasn't a terrorist attack and it wasn't on friday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1_viPSD-bY

"Let's talk about Swedish issues so we can all forget that our president is an idiot" - American People
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 21, 2017, 01:30:02 am
Except it wasn't a terrorist attack and it wasn't on friday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1_viPSD-bY

"Let's talk about Swedish issues so we can all forget that our president is an idiot" - American People

"Lets talk about how Trump is an idiot and ignore everything he has accomplished"

Honestly

If Trump is an idiot, you must be literally retarded because I doubt you have accomplished 1% of the things that man has.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 21, 2017, 03:03:48 am
Except it wasn't a terrorist attack and it wasn't on friday.


"Let's talk about Swedish issues so we can all forget that our president is an idiot" - American People

Hahaha, God forbid anyone critize your beloved EU. I think by even trying to defend some of the EU's worst choices of 2016 you're really just showing us to what extent you'll blindly defend your failing project.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on February 21, 2017, 06:51:09 am
EU is trash and needs a reform but it's still better than no EU.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 21, 2017, 07:14:00 am
EU is trash and needs a reform but it's still better than no EU.

why
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 21, 2017, 08:07:48 am
I agree on the EU thing with Furrnox because im German :D

Besides that, saying that Trump meant Terror Attacks specifically is a bit....odd.

"Look at Germany, look what's happening, or what happend last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this. Sweden. They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible. You look at what's happening in Brussels. You look at what's happening all over the world. Take a look at Nice. Take a look at Paris."

I mean call me retarded but to me it just sounds like he comments on the increased crime rate and the constant raping cases happening in sweden.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 21, 2017, 08:52:34 am
I agree on the EU thing with Furrnox because im German :D

Besides that, saying that Trump meant Terror Attacks specifically is a bit....odd.

"Look at Germany, look what's happening, or what happend last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this. Sweden. They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible. You look at what's happening in Brussels. You look at what's happening all over the world. Take a look at Nice. Take a look at Paris."

I mean call me retarded but to me it just sounds like he comments on the increased crime rate and the constant raping cases happening in sweden.

How dare you be reasonable you nazi
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on February 21, 2017, 03:41:56 pm
Except it wasn't a terrorist attack and it wasn't on friday.


"Let's talk about Swedish issues so we can all forget that our president is an idiot" - American People

Hahaha, God forbid anyone critize your beloved Trump. I think by even trying to defend some of Trumps worst choices you're really just showing us to what extent you'll blindly defend your failing project.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 21, 2017, 04:58:34 pm
Except it wasn't a terrorist attack and it wasn't on friday.


"Let's talk about Swedish issues so we can all forget that our president is an idiot" - American People
God forbid anyone critize your beloved EU. I think by even trying to defend some of the EU's worst choices of 2016 you're really just showing us to what extent you'll blindly defend your failing project.
*something something I pretend to be sitting on the fence so nobody can insult me*

Nice and relevant, you absolute sperg.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 21, 2017, 05:41:03 pm
I think there's a strong element of truth in this article so far as the cultural reasons go to explain the rise of populism (even if it is through an anti-Trump lens):
https://www.wsj.com/articles/do-we-still-want-the-west-1487635725

Doesn't deal with the social or economic causes of course but those have already got a lot of airtime (globalisation, identity politics, etc). I still think Trump is a fool who doesn't understand the complexities of the modern world (though granted he has identified a lot of what's going wrong) but there's no denying that he pulled off an incredible win in November. He beat not one but both major US political dynasties, was massively outspent by Clinton and also by Bush (money is usually the deciding factor in US elections), and had the vast bulk of the media establishment against him.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 21, 2017, 08:25:49 pm
I think that saying Trump is fool is just wrong.

Reality is not a Forrest Gump movie. You don't just blunder your way into becoming a billionaire. You don't just blunder your way into becoming president of the United States in a landslide victory.

I think there is a key difference between Trump the persona and Trump the person, and I think that is where Trump's brilliance shows. If you look less at what he says and more at why he says it, you begin to see that. For example, this thing with Sweden and all that. Did something actually really happen in Sweden last night? Not really. But it causes controversy and it brings attention to the issue. He wants that spotlight on Sweden, as it is a great case as to why this travel ban (which he is currently rewriting) is a good thing and he has succeeded in doing that as so many people knee jerked like "REEEE NOTHING HAPPENED IN SWEDEN REEEEEEEE".

Really, when you think about it, alot of the "outrage" and "controversy" about Trump really ends up helping him, and I think that is completely intentional on Trump's part.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on February 21, 2017, 08:54:34 pm
I think that saying Trump is fool is just wrong.

Reality is not a Forrest Gump movie. You don't just blunder your way into becoming a billionaire. You don't just blunder your way into becoming president of the United States in a landslide victory.

I think there is a key difference between Trump the persona and Trump the person, and I think that is where Trump's brilliance shows. If you look less at what he says and more at why he says it, you begin to see that. For example, this thing with Sweden and all that. Did something actually really happen in Sweden last night? Not really. But it causes controversy and it brings attention to the issue. He wants that spotlight on Sweden, as it is a great case as to why this travel ban (which he is currently rewriting) is a good thing and he has succeeded in doing that as so many people knee jerked like "REEEE NOTHING HAPPENED IN SWEDEN REEEEEEEE".

Really, when you think about it, a lot of the "outrage" and "controversy" about Trump really ends up helping him, and I think that is completely intentional on Trump's part.
I see where you're coming from. It seems like he's picking most of his cabinet members based off their loyalty or ideological alignment rather then experience or knowledge on their jurisdiction. That would show hes smarter then what people say. I don't think he'll be an effective President as in he makes the country better long term, I think he'll leave a total mess like Bush did but people will say hes doing a great job while hes in office.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 21, 2017, 09:10:20 pm
I think that saying Trump is fool is just wrong.

Reality is not a Forrest Gump movie. You don't just blunder your way into becoming a billionaire. You don't just blunder your way into becoming president of the United States in a landslide victory.

I think there is a key difference between Trump the persona and Trump the person, and I think that is where Trump's brilliance shows. If you look less at what he says and more at why he says it, you begin to see that. For example, this thing with Sweden and all that. Did something actually really happen in Sweden last night? Not really. But it causes controversy and it brings attention to the issue. He wants that spotlight on Sweden, as it is a great case as to why this travel ban (which he is currently rewriting) is a good thing and he has succeeded in doing that as so many people knee jerked like "REEEE NOTHING HAPPENED IN SWEDEN REEEEEEEE".

Really, when you think about it, a lot of the "outrage" and "controversy" about Trump really ends up helping him, and I think that is completely intentional on Trump's part.
I see where you're coming from. It seems like he's picking most of his cabinet members based off their loyalty or ideological alignment rather then experience or knowledge on their jurisdiction. That would show hes smarter then what people say. I don't think he'll be an effective President as in he makes the country better long term, I think he'll leave a total mess like Bush did but people will say hes doing a great job while hes in office.

Why do you think that?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 21, 2017, 09:37:23 pm
The EU could hardly be called a failed project. In terms of international politcs, it's still taking its baby steps. These things take time to progress. Surely, it's rotten as it is now, but that doesn't mean it can't improve.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 21, 2017, 09:42:00 pm
Used to think Trump was playing a very smart game, but not so much anymore. I think he got lucky, came in at the right time and faced a dreadful opponent. Had it been in 2008 or 2012 he would have lost because the economic conditions conducive to Trump's rise just weren't there. I mean he's kinda smart but he's also very ignorant about how the world works-pulling out of TPP was a massive gift to China and it was just plain wrong to say that America's allies in Asia and the Pacific gave nothing back in return for stationing US troops. I think the whole 'Trump says something not fully accurate and shifts national attention' or 'Trump says something controversial on Twitter to distract the media' is largely unintentional (though undoubtedly his inner team have caught onto the latter and started doing it deliberately).

Trump's not that great a businessman-bankrupt four times, beaten by the stock market (I shit you not he'd have been far wealthier by just putting his money into a fund: http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/), got his start off his dad, and so on.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Thunderstormer on February 21, 2017, 10:11:48 pm
I think that saying Trump is fool is just wrong.

Reality is not a Forrest Gump movie. You don't just blunder your way into becoming a billionaire. You don't just blunder your way into becoming president of the United States in a landslide victory.


that was not a landslide victory.  Not even close to it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on February 21, 2017, 10:22:28 pm
I think that saying Trump is fool is just wrong.

Reality is not a Forrest Gump movie. You don't just blunder your way into becoming a billionaire. You don't just blunder your way into becoming president of the United States in a landslide victory.


that was not a landslide victory.  Not even close to it.
Yea true, not even for the electoral college given its history
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJtskViDg7g
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Thunderstormer on February 22, 2017, 02:37:33 am
I think that saying Trump is fool is just wrong.

Reality is not a Forrest Gump movie. You don't just blunder your way into becoming a billionaire. You don't just blunder your way into becoming president of the United States in a landslide victory.


that was not a landslide victory.  Not even close to it.
Yea true, not even for the electoral college given its history
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJtskViDg7g
[close]

Yea, there were way larger victories in terms of point differences in the EC, or in the popular vote.  Even in recent history.  The EC victory for trump wasn't that large, and a few of the states that put him over were very very very close. 

and for arguments sake, if you believe in the millions of illegal votes, that would still only possibly give him the popular vote as well by a little.  nothing about it was a landslide victory. 

You would need a massive EC difference, with the states leaning that normally lean to one party being decisively in their favor, and the swing states(with said states being clearly going to one party, not 51-49 or along those lines) going heavily to one party.  Even add in a few of the opposite parties reliable(very red or blue) states switching.  You would also need a very large population difference going for one candidate to be able to say it was a landslide.   


I am guessing Apoc said it to trigger someone, bait someone(yay me) or just wants to make trumps victory sound greater than it was for one reason or another.  none of which are really necessary.  Unless he believes any victory, however small is a landslide, which makes nearly every election a landslide, which means none of them really were.   
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 22, 2017, 02:55:12 am
I am guessing Apoc said it to trigger someone, bait someone(yay me) or just wants to make trumps victory sound greater than it was for one reason or another.  none of which are really necessary.  Unless he believes any victory, however small is a landslide, which makes nearly every election a landslide, which means none of them really were.   

Trump's win wasn't a landslide but it was more impressive than just about every other US election in modern history, certainly far bigger than Obama's wins in 2012 and 2008. This was a David vs Goliath contest-Trump had just about every disadvantage going yet still came out on top and proved everyone wrong in the process. I think it was the first time ever that the candidate who spent less actually won, and given the US is a plutocracy that's the most significant point to take away.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 22, 2017, 03:16:50 am
I am guessing Apoc said it to trigger someone, bait someone(yay me) or just wants to make trumps victory sound greater than it was for one reason or another.  none of which are really necessary.  Unless he believes any victory, however small is a landslide, which makes nearly every election a landslide, which means none of them really were.   

Trump's win wasn't a landslide but it was more impressive than just about every other US election in modern history, certainly far bigger than Obama's wins in 2012 and 2008. This was a David vs Goliath contest-Trump had just about every disadvantage going yet still came out on top and proved everyone wrong in the process. I think it was the first time ever that the candidate who spent less actually won, and given the US is a plutocracy that's the most significant point to take away.
Numbers wise it wasn't a landslide. However, predictions/polling wise it was, solely because of the probabilities before the election.
When you have a 1 percent chance of winning the day of and win the EC by that wide of a margin, I call that a landslide, even though a real "landslide" is more like Reagan - Mondale.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Thunderstormer on February 22, 2017, 03:44:06 am
I am guessing Apoc said it to trigger someone, bait someone(yay me) or just wants to make trumps victory sound greater than it was for one reason or another.  none of which are really necessary.  Unless he believes any victory, however small is a landslide, which makes nearly every election a landslide, which means none of them really were.   

Trump's win wasn't a landslide but it was more impressive than just about every other US election in modern history, certainly far bigger than Obama's wins in 2012 and 2008. This was a David vs Goliath contest-Trump had just about every disadvantage going yet still came out on top and proved everyone wrong in the process. I think it was the first time ever that the candidate who spent less actually won, and given the US is a plutocracy that's the most significant point to take away.

tbh, the millions spent on ads didn't really do anything, and was just a waste of money.  Every one knew the 2 candidates well enough, especially after the news coverage. both sides could of just abandoned the ads and nothing would of changed, at least for the presidential election imo. it would of saved millions anyways. 


I am guessing Apoc said it to trigger someone, bait someone(yay me) or just wants to make trumps victory sound greater than it was for one reason or another.  none of which are really necessary.  Unless he believes any victory, however small is a landslide, which makes nearly every election a landslide, which means none of them really were.   

Trump's win wasn't a landslide but it was more impressive than just about every other US election in modern history, certainly far bigger than Obama's wins in 2012 and 2008. This was a David vs Goliath contest-Trump had just about every disadvantage going yet still came out on top and proved everyone wrong in the process. I think it was the first time ever that the candidate who spent less actually won, and given the US is a plutocracy that's the most significant point to take away.

if one wants to say it is impressive, or argue it, i can see their point, and depending on what is said, agree with it.  I didn't have any doubt that the race would be close.  i didn't really care what the polls said.  I had that gut feeling it would be close, even after all the various "scandals" both sides had.  sure enough it was.  and i remember some of the polls showing this. 

i didn't see the race being David vs Goliath.  both had their major weaknesses that were clearly shown every single day.(yay being a swing state)  i recall some of the polls being fairly close, and some of the national polls not being too far off the end result(with hillary having more support than trump by a few %)

and i don't really see beating polls or expectations being a landslide.  there are other adjectives one would use, that make sense, rather than saying it is a landslide.(especially in apocs sentence if that is what he was trying to convey)  and his margin in the EC wasn't that large.  he barely got PA and MI.(both by less than a 1% if memory serves)  He got 304(or whatever) by a very thin margin.  and if you want to see a modern landslide victory, look at Nixon vs mcgovern. 

polls are iffy at best.  quite a few of them are bogus. 
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 22, 2017, 10:51:42 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/ee2f2848c7d9b09a1e691199f2193592.png)

(my take on the Milo situation)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on February 22, 2017, 10:57:41 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/ee2f2848c7d9b09a1e691199f2193592.png)

(my take on the Milo situation)
It's too late in terms of stopping the hate train from the MSM. They've amplified a statement, twisted it out of context and will proceed to try and crucify him, but just like the real Christ, he will arise to finish his work. It also means he can grow his brand out without tying it to Breitbart, the racist and alt-right haven /s
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 23, 2017, 12:15:49 am
Inshallah, he will make it so.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 23, 2017, 06:39:34 am
What happened with milo?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 23, 2017, 07:08:12 am
What happened with milo?

Media hit pieces came out basically calling him a pedophile/defending pedophiles

It was an incredibly low blow, specially since Milo was a victim of it as a kid.

Can't say I agree with Milo's viewpoint on sexuality and consent (specially since he is gay), but I feel like that really isn't an issue though. Only reason it was brought up was to discredit the guy because he was getting too popular.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 23, 2017, 09:30:14 am
Tbh, after watching his appearance on the drunken peasants podcast I can understand the medias kind of view. Obviously I disagree with now disregarding everything he says. But his view on homosexuality and how he describes his experience with the priest is so odd and weird its just...very lunatic.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 23, 2017, 08:34:31 pm
he kinda did defend pedo's though...
Think about how fucked up the world is now that orbiting a fucking gay man is seen as conservative. Just end me now fam
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 23, 2017, 08:40:32 pm
he kinda did defend pedo's though...
Think about how fucked up the world is now that orbiting a fucking gay man is seen as conservative. Just end me now fam
I cant really tell when you just meme or when you are legit an edgy neo nazi.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 23, 2017, 08:50:14 pm
he kinda did defend pedo's though...

He didn't, he said the priest was "young and hot" and wanted to diddle him.

It's different from "pedophilia" (the buzzword the media is using to make people gasp), as I said above - it's pederasty.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 23, 2017, 09:12:23 pm
he kinda did defend pedo's though...
Think about how fucked up the world is now that orbiting a fucking gay man is seen as conservative. Just end me now fam
I cant really tell when you just meme or when you are legit an edgy neo nazi.
how is anything I wrote edgy. I simply pointed out that the symbol of anti traditionalism (the homosexual lifestyle) can now be compatible with conservatism

he kinda did defend pedo's though...

He didn't, he said the priest was "young and hot" and wanted to diddle him.

It's different from "pedophilia" (the buzzword the media is using to make people gasp), as I said above - it's pederasty.
using a buzzword doesn't mean that the argument is invalid. We're talking about a 13 year old boy being molested which I and the laws of many countries strangely believe is wrong. I dont hate Milo but im not going to agree with everything someone says just because we agree on a few things, especially if those things are ridiculous as saying child molestation is ok and that it can be a positive experience.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 23, 2017, 09:26:37 pm
Tbh, after watching his appearance on the drunken peasants podcast I can understand the medias kind of view. Obviously I disagree with now disregarding everything he says. But his view on homosexuality and how he describes his experience with the priest is so odd and weird its just...very lunatic.

Its understandable, yes, but it was a very strategic hit piece that was made to come out at a particular time. Milo lost his job, a book deal, and an upcoming speech he was doing..
 for something he said over a month ago.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on February 23, 2017, 09:34:17 pm
Tbh, after watching his appearance on the drunken peasants podcast I can understand the medias kind of view. Obviously I disagree with now disregarding everything he says. But his view on homosexuality and how he describes his experience with the priest is so odd and weird its just...very lunatic.

Its understandable, yes, but it was a very strategic hit piece that was made to come out at a particular time. Milo lost his job, a book deal, and an upcoming speech he was doing..
 for something he said over a month ago.
The democrats lost an election over something that happened 4 years ago. kek. Doesn't really matter when you say it does it?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 23, 2017, 10:02:48 pm
Tbh, after watching his appearance on the drunken peasants podcast I can understand the medias kind of view. Obviously I disagree with now disregarding everything he says. But his view on homosexuality and how he describes his experience with the priest is so odd and weird its just...very lunatic.

Its understandable, yes, but it was a very strategic hit piece that was made to come out at a particular time. Milo lost his job, a book deal, and an upcoming speech he was doing..
 for something he said over a month ago.
The democrats lost an election over something that happened 4 years ago. kek. Doesn't really matter when you say it does it?

...and its been a controversy since it became public knowledge.

The video in question has been out for over a month on a well known channel. There is no good reason they would have not published these stories already unless they were waiting for an opportune moment to damage the guy as much as they could.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 24, 2017, 03:12:10 am
There's isn't a conspiracy behind every corner.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 24, 2017, 03:55:31 am
There's isn't a conspiracy behind every corner.

I have some reason to believe otherwise.

https://archive.is/briVl
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on February 24, 2017, 07:51:51 pm
So black people at the University of Michigan want to be segregated

http://www.dailywire.com/news/13809/university-michigan-student-group-demands-safe-hank-berrien (http://www.dailywire.com/news/13809/university-michigan-student-group-demands-safe-hank-berrien)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Grantrithor on February 24, 2017, 11:24:41 pm
They have to stop calling "non-white" people "coloured". That's a racist term dating back some 50 years. How do these people not see how classifying an entire group of people as being "coloured", ie. their skin is not of the "normal" colour, as not being supremely racist.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 25, 2017, 02:38:09 am
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLP-2jD1eH0
[close]


Do Americans actually pay to go to a place of "education" full of people like this audience?

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 25, 2017, 03:46:02 am
They have to stop calling "non-white" people "coloured". That's a racist term dating back some 50 years. How do these people not see how classifying an entire group of people as being "coloured", ie. their skin is not of the "normal" colour, as not being supremely racist.
It wasn't really a racist term it was just how blacks were described in the ~50's and 60's. "Negro" was considered to be too racist so "Colored" was the PC term for the time.
It doesn't really matter anyway there will be a new adjective in 5 years that will be the new not racist term

if i get muted for using "Negro" I'll have to commit FSE genocide as retribution
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 25, 2017, 07:30:46 pm
They have to stop calling "non-white" people "coloured". That's a racist term dating back some 50 years. How do these people not see how classifying an entire group of people as being "coloured", ie. their skin is not of the "normal" colour, as not being supremely racist.
It wasn't really a racist term it was just how blacks were described in the ~50's and 60's. "Negro" was considered to be too racist so "Colored" was the PC term for the time.
It doesn't really matter anyway there will be a new adjective in 5 years that will be the new not racist term

if i get muted for using "Negro" I'll have to commit FSE genocide as retribution

(https://i.imgur.com/vvDLkus.png)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 25, 2017, 08:40:35 pm
They have to stop calling "non-white" people "coloured". That's a racist term dating back some 50 years. How do these people not see how classifying an entire group of people as being "coloured", ie. their skin is not of the "normal" colour, as not being supremely racist.
It wasn't really a racist term it was just how blacks were described in the ~50's and 60's. "Negro" was considered to be too racist so "Colored" was the PC term for the time.
It doesn't really matter anyway there will be a new adjective in 5 years that will be the new not racist term

if i get muted for using "Negro" I'll have to commit FSE genocide as retribution

(https://i.imgur.com/vvDLkus.png)
(https://img.4plebs.org/boards/s4s/image/1440/91/1440918631475.gif)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 25, 2017, 11:35:31 pm
Interesting: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/25/netherlands-holds-inquiry-whether-could-ditch-euro/
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 26, 2017, 07:28:03 pm
Interesting: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/25/netherlands-holds-inquiry-whether-could-ditch-euro/

Generally these things make international press beacuse of supposed 'bold statement' like 'ditchgin the euro'. It isn't even close to something like that. It's really nothing more than literally investigating all possible options - whether or not they're realistic. They do the same every now and again to see how they could close the budget deficit, and each time 'abolishing the army' is one of them. Which is technically true, but would be political dynamite. ERgo: the council of state won't look into how realistic any choice would be, just the possible ones.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Grantrithor on February 26, 2017, 07:52:45 pm
They have to stop calling "non-white" people "coloured". That's a racist term dating back some 50 years. How do these people not see how classifying an entire group of people as being "coloured", ie. their skin is not of the "normal" colour, as not being supremely racist.
It wasn't really a racist term it was just how blacks were described in the ~50's and 60's. "Negro" was considered to be too racist so "Colored" was the PC term for the time.
It doesn't really matter anyway there will be a new adjective in 5 years that will be the new not racist term

if i get muted for using "Negro" I'll have to commit FSE genocide as retribution

say hello to the gulag
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 26, 2017, 08:20:54 pm
Interesting: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/25/netherlands-holds-inquiry-whether-could-ditch-euro/

Generally these things make international press beacuse of supposed 'bold statement' like 'ditchgin the euro'. It isn't even close to something like that. It's really nothing more than literally investigating all possible options - whether or not they're realistic. They do the same every now and again to see how they could close the budget deficit, and each time 'abolishing the army' is one of them. Which is technically true, but would be political dynamite. ERgo: the council of state won't look into how realistic any choice would be, just the possible ones.

Meh, when Italy leaves the Eurozone (only a matter of time) others will follow and it'll collapse.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on February 28, 2017, 09:06:10 am
Bring back the US politics thread

Nothing happens on this thread, just abit of speculation.

It'll be a meme in a few months when literally everyone is wrong, but would prefer stuff to happen.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 28, 2017, 09:52:37 am
The moderation team isn't quite keen on opening the US politics thread. Not suprising since it gets shut down every month or so because quite a number of people can't keep themselves from becoming majorly triggered and calling anything disagreeing with them a retard.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 28, 2017, 11:28:48 am
m8 some ppl are retards, its our civic duty to let em know
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 28, 2017, 08:16:05 pm
The moderation team isn't quite keen on opening the US politics thread. Not suprising since it gets shut down every month or so because quite a number of people can't keep themselves from becoming majorly triggered and calling anything disagreeing with them a retard.

Threads only started being closed after nationalism utterly raped globalism late 2016... how strange.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: ClearlyInvsible on February 28, 2017, 08:58:07 pm
US Politics thread being toxic? That's not new.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 28, 2017, 09:25:11 pm
The moderation team isn't quite keen on opening the US politics thread. Not suprising since it gets shut down every month or so because quite a number of people can't keep themselves from becoming majorly triggered and calling anything disagreeing with them a retard.

Threads only started being closed after nationalism utterly raped globalism late 2016... how strange.
You dirty racist
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 28, 2017, 09:57:45 pm
The moderation team isn't quite keen on opening the US politics thread. Not suprising since it gets shut down every month or so because quite a number of people can't keep themselves from becoming majorly triggered and calling anything disagreeing with them a retard.

Threads only started being closed after nationalism utterly raped globalism late 2016... how strange.
You dirty racist

Get racists off our threads.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on February 28, 2017, 10:57:05 pm
Fuck, it's true....

cuff me Duuring
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on February 28, 2017, 10:59:02 pm
Just ban fancy and fraudbear and the thread will be golden
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on March 01, 2017, 02:36:35 am
Just ban fancy and fraudbear and the thread will be golden
jokes on u, i wont even be here after next month. I'll be the next martyr
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Peppers on March 01, 2017, 03:56:43 am
Just ban fancy and fraudbear and the thread will be golden
jokes on u, i wont even be here after next month. I'll be the next martyr
I am the OG martyr of the right on here.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on March 01, 2017, 04:51:34 am
Just ban fancy and fraudbear and the thread will be golden
jokes on u, i wont even be here after next month. I'll be the next martyr
I am the OG martyr of the right on here.

then be the matyr we need and get the thread unlocked
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 01, 2017, 12:10:06 pm
The moderation team isn't quite keen on opening the US politics thread. Not suprising since it gets shut down every month or so because quite a number of people can't keep themselves from becoming majorly triggered and calling anything disagreeing with them a retard.

Threads only started being closed after nationalism utterly raped globalism late 2016... how strange.

You know this isn't true, the US politics thread was shut down on multiple occasions, throughout 2016, and before.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: ClearlyInvsible on March 01, 2017, 02:04:02 pm
Shhhh Riddlez let him think he's right.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 01, 2017, 06:11:45 pm
Shhhh Riddlez let him think he's right.

1) Almost 6000 posts of garbage (look how active I am mods!!)
2) Constantly agrees with moderators
3) Donator
4) Panda wearing a red star as avatar

Yup, everything checks out.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on March 01, 2017, 06:17:16 pm
ShariaBlue has compiled a list using Reddit Enhancement Suite tags of known Trump supporters on Reddit to share with their people astroturfing it. I am on the list tagged as "Trumpette" in fuchsia lmao. If you have posted anything pro-Trump on Reddit, you may be too! See here (ctrl+f is your friend):

https://paste.ee/p/PoQRk
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BlueMoon_IT on March 01, 2017, 07:33:19 pm
Shhhh Riddlez let him think he's right.

1) Almost 6000 posts of garbage (look how active I am mods!!)
2) Constantly agrees with moderators
3) Donator
4) Panda wearing a red star as avatar

Yup, everything checks out.
Checked.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on March 01, 2017, 07:52:28 pm
The moderation team isn't quite keen on opening the US politics thread. Not suprising since it gets shut down every month or so because quite a number of people can't keep themselves from becoming majorly triggered and calling anything disagreeing with them a retard.

Threads only started being closed after nationalism utterly raped globalism late 2016... how strange.

You know this isn't true, the US politics thread was shut down on multiple occasions, throughout 2016, and before.
it was shutdown because of the same people each time. #BanFancy
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on March 02, 2017, 12:48:35 am
Shhhh Riddlez let him think he's right.

1) Almost 6000 posts of garbage (look how active I am mods!!)
2) Constantly agrees with moderators
3) Donator
4) Panda wearing a red star as avatar

Yup, everything checks out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEbJJPwOe_Q
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: ClearlyInvsible on March 02, 2017, 01:20:01 am
I think I made'im salty guys.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on March 02, 2017, 01:34:53 am
You call THAT Salty? Where the hell have you been posting for your 6000 posts?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: ClearlyInvsible on March 02, 2017, 01:40:31 am
Dude, I haven't played NW for years now. I haven't even looked at the FSE forums in ages.

I just pop in once in a while to see if everyone's OK.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on March 02, 2017, 01:41:03 am
Shhhh Riddlez let him think he's right.

1) Almost 6000 posts of garbage (look how active I am mods!!)
2) Constantly agrees with moderators
3) Donator
4) Panda wearing a red star as avatar

Yup, everything checks out.
Checked.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F948%2F911%2Fed7.jpg&hash=baf331bcab61a55351f103460784a11f2d860deb)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on March 02, 2017, 01:48:06 am
Shhhh Riddlez let him think he's right.

1) Almost 6000 posts of garbage (look how active I am mods!!)
2) Constantly agrees with moderators
3) Donator
4) Panda wearing a red star as avatar

Yup, everything checks out.
Classic Clearly, disappearing for months on end to show his activity :)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: ClearlyInvsible on March 02, 2017, 01:49:57 am
Heh, nice to see ya too Conway. Glad to see you're still about.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on March 02, 2017, 06:40:20 am
Shhhh Riddlez let him think he's right.

1) Almost 6000 posts of garbage (look how active I am mods!!)
2) Constantly agrees with moderators
3) Donator
4) Panda wearing a red star as avatar

Yup, everything checks out.
Classic Clearly, disappearing for months on end to show his activity :)

yeah you right

he must be super inactive to have 4 posts a day

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZJDYlxkM-c
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 02, 2017, 07:55:07 am
This is the part where I tell you people to get back on topic and pointing out it was because stuff like this that the US thread gets shut down all the time.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on March 02, 2017, 07:57:13 am
This is the part where I tell you Mods being so heavy handed in controlling the conversation is why this community is dying.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 02, 2017, 07:59:48 am
My goal here is, is to keep insults towards a person and general discussion that really does nothing but stir up shit, away from a thread with already sensitive discussion.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on March 02, 2017, 08:08:00 am
All that I see here is Rick saying he is a shill, some people agree/disagreeing. This is far from shit. Though, you are right. This is why the US thread gets locked all the time, because for some reason locking threads seems to be done quite lightly around here. Stopping conversation is, afterall, how communities thrive I am sure.

INB4 I get muted for Off Topic, "Take this to somewhere else abit less public where the mods can ignore you easier"

I would say cuff me Riddlez, but I know you have no power here. Go get the Sheriff.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 02, 2017, 04:25:32 pm
You're just proving my point Riddlez. ClearlyInvisible takes a random swipe at me then has to be saved by mod buddies once I fire back.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Windflower on March 02, 2017, 08:25:30 pm
Shhhh Riddlez let him think he's right.

1) Almost 6000 posts of garbage (look how active I am mods!!)
2) Constantly agrees with moderators
3) Donator
4) Panda wearing a red star as avatar

Yup, everything checks out.
Checked.
What a great roast.

A modern classic.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: ClearlyInvsible on March 02, 2017, 10:01:01 pm
Now Im confused.

I haven't posted here in months. Where did the four posts a day thing come from?

Is my rate still that high from when I was active here?

Also to this obviously politically charged username dude, Im stating evidence from the past. The US thread was shut down a horrific amount of times from 2014-2015 because shit generally just got messy.

Sorry you took it personally man, but you're just not correct here.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on March 02, 2017, 10:15:36 pm
yes very good, we wouldn't want any of that problematic thinking would we
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on March 02, 2017, 10:21:02 pm
Now Im confused.

I haven't posted here in months. Where did the four posts a day thing come from?

Is my rate still that high from when I was active here?

Also to this obviously politically charged username dude, Im stating evidence from the past. The US thread was shut down a horrific amount of times from 2014-2015 because shit generally just got messy.

Sorry you took it personally man, but you're just not correct here.

Correct me if I am wrong

But I am pretty sure the US Politics Thread was started in 2016.

I believe a UK thread was made around Brexit time/abit before

and then BabyJesus decided to make the US politics thread saying "Since there is a UK thread I'm guessing this is allowed." during like November of 2016.

So how would it be possible it was locked a horrific amount of times in 2014-2015?

I think it was just 2016 that Duuring really kept his hand on the Lock trigger to be honest.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 02, 2017, 11:38:07 pm
Now Im confused.

I haven't posted here in months. Where did the four posts a day thing come from?

Is my rate still that high from when I was active here?

Also to this obviously politically charged username dude, Im stating evidence from the past. The US thread was shut down a horrific amount of times from 2014-2015 because shit generally just got messy.

Sorry you took it personally man, but you're just not correct here.

Correct me if I am wrong

But I am pretty sure the US Politics Thread was started in 2016.

I believe a UK thread was made around Brexit time/abit before

and then BabyJesus decided to make the US politics thread saying "Since there is a UK thread I'm guessing this is allowed." during like November of 2016.

So how would it be possible it was locked a horrific amount of times in 2014-2015?

I think it was just 2016 that Duuring really kept his hand on the Lock trigger to be honest.

Pretty much-I made the UK thread because the "general" politics thread was basically 99% about US politics so it was somewhere to discuss Brexit.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 03, 2017, 12:18:17 am
What a great roast.

A modern classic.

I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: ClearlyInvsible on March 03, 2017, 01:10:13 am
Right, what Chinton said. Sorry, my memory's utter trash.

But yeah, the Gen Politics thread always ended up getting locked and purged and edited and yada yada yada. Shit, this was before Duuring was even a mod. Back when Riddlez was still outside of the community. Does anyone remember who the forum mods were back then?

Either way my point stands, stuff always got ugly.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on March 03, 2017, 03:10:41 am
Right, what Chinton said. Sorry, my memory's utter trash.

But yeah, the Gen Politics thread always ended up getting locked and purged and edited and yada yada yada. Shit, this was before Duuring was even a mod. Back when Riddlez was still outside of the community. Does anyone remember who the forum mods were back then?

Either way my point stands, stuff always got ugly.

I don't remember it that way. As I said, I think it really think the locking intensified for no good reason in 2016 (Like Rick suggested)

But I dunno. You did manage to discredit both yourself and Riddlez in a single post though, both of the people arguing that locking has not intensified, by claiming your memory is shit and saying Riddlez was outside of the community.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: ClearlyInvsible on March 03, 2017, 05:10:30 am
*Shrug* Hey man, Im just one dude with a keyboard. I've got the same weight as you do, or any other dude with a keyboard.

What were we talking about again?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on March 03, 2017, 05:28:04 am
why're you back?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on March 03, 2017, 05:28:28 am
That the admins need to unlock the US politics thread
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on March 03, 2017, 06:08:25 am
*Shrug* Hey man, Im just one dude with a keyboard. I've got the same weight as you do, or any other dude with a keyboard.

What were we talking about again?
...he thinks he has the same weight as me
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/95/e9/cd/95e9cd2a14f19068f8478a296a5903a3.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Grantrithor on March 03, 2017, 06:20:29 pm
arm wrassle tournament to settle this dispute when?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 03, 2017, 10:47:15 pm
*Shrug* Hey man, Im just one dude with a keyboard. I've got the same weight as you do, or any other dude with a keyboard.

What were we talking about again?
...he thinks he has the same weight as me
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/95/e9/cd/95e9cd2a14f19068f8478a296a5903a3.jpg)

This is good proof that black national-socialists exist.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on March 04, 2017, 05:02:28 am
/lock
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 04, 2017, 06:48:49 pm
No, I won't lock this thread, or any thread, as easily as some other moderators. I am much more for individual punishment.

That said, I will ask you one more time to get this topic back on topic, or this:

Go get the Sheriff.

Is exactly what I'll do.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on March 04, 2017, 08:07:36 pm
No, I won't lock this thread, or any thread, as easily as some other moderators.

Because you can't. You literally have no power here. You literally have no more power here than I do.

That said, I will ask you one more time to get this topic back on topic, or this:

Go get the Sheriff.

Is exactly what I'll do.

Then do it? It's what I asked for isn't it? If I can't get him here, maybe you can. I am curious if he is still alive, and if he has changed his policy of locking threads/muting people first and watching the community die later.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Thunderstormer on March 04, 2017, 09:00:51 pm
This thread is for : Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread, not for whatever thing you dislike about mods, the rules, CRs, or for whatever other offtopic topic.

Now get back on topic, and pm/steam duuring if you want to talk to him about something, or talk to a CR.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on March 04, 2017, 09:10:18 pm
This thread is for : Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread, not for whatever thing you dislike about mods, the rules, CRs, or for whatever other offtopic topic.

Now get back on topic, and pm/steam duuring if you want to talk to him about something, or talk to a CR.

Will he actually respond or care?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on March 06, 2017, 08:56:41 am
Lmao. Bears actually put a school on lockdown. God bless Betsy Devoss

http://www.freep.com/story/news/nation/2017/03/02/betsy-devos/98635018/ (http://www.freep.com/story/news/nation/2017/03/02/betsy-devos/98635018/)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on March 06, 2017, 11:29:21 am
Lmao. Bears actually put a school on lockdown. God bless Betsy Devoss

http://www.freep.com/story/news/nation/2017/03/02/betsy-devos/98635018/ (http://www.freep.com/story/news/nation/2017/03/02/betsy-devos/98635018/)

That bear was a plant. Don't believe the lies.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on March 07, 2017, 10:31:28 pm
"The General Political Thread"
doesn't this include the politics of FSE?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on March 08, 2017, 12:09:44 am
"The General Political Thread"
doesn't this include the politics of FSE?

Nothing in the title displays otherwise.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 08, 2017, 12:51:11 am
Dutch elections in a little over a week, what are the predictions? I reckon Wilders will lead the largest party but will get nowhere near government. Also Rutte won't stay on as PM either-you can't lose almost half your support verses last time and still carry on.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on March 08, 2017, 01:02:18 am
Polls are suggesting that Wilders has fallen behind Rutte since last week. It's likely that Wilders will remain as the head of the opposition, a role he seems most comfortable with. That and no other party would be willing to work with him, even if he does turn out the largest.

My predictions are that Rutte and his VVD will remain the largest, he will remain PM and will seek a coalition with the centrist parties, D66, CDA and perhaps even the Greens.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 08, 2017, 11:11:23 am
I am not as optimistic. The margins in the polls are still too small to say Rutte has overtaken Wilders. In the last week before the elections, both of them can still make a major fuck-up.
My guess is that Wilders will become the largest party, will be unable to form a coalition, no other workable coalition will form and we'll have a second set of elections in half a year.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 08, 2017, 09:46:56 pm
I wouldn't discount the possibility that the polls are completely wrong and understate the support for Wilders, much like they did for Brexit and Trump. If Wilders does far better than the polling implies then perhaps Le Pen could be on course for victory (which the polls state can't happen).
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on March 09, 2017, 12:39:55 am
Kinda interested in seeing the first French presidential debate on the 20th if there's any site available with proper English subtitles. I doubt it though live subs tend to be pretty off.

I wouldn't discount the possibility that the polls are completely wrong and understate the support for Wilders, much like they did for Brexit and Trump. If Wilders does far better than the polling implies then perhaps Le Pen could be on course for victory (which the polls state can't happen).

According to current polls she will at least go to the second round.
Where she will face off against Macron if it goes according to the polls.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cara on March 09, 2017, 02:01:38 am
I will check this later but i'm sure I can find you a transcription (or decent subtitles) made for France's international TV like France 24.

Polls in France were (to this date) quite accurate and all showing the same global possibility of a second round Le Pen-Macron, even right-wing medias newspapers (pro Fillon). Fillon and Macron were pretty close for a few month but now the gap is clear after his scandal. It's quite impossible that Le Pen passes due to the strong opposition that will raise if she qualifies for the second round (as in 2002 with her father). The interesting and sad fact is that her opponent will win but with probably a lesser gap (Chirac-Le Pen was a 80/2 and here it will be a 60/40).
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 09, 2017, 12:02:21 pm
I wouldn't discount the possibility that the polls are completely wrong and understate the support for Wilders, much like they did for Brexit and Trump. If Wilders does far better than the polling implies then perhaps Le Pen could be on course for victory (which the polls state can't happen).

It has been actually the opposite. A lot of Wilders-voters say they support him, but don't show up to vote. Usually because they don't trust the system, or quite very well possibly this election, because he has been completely isolated by all relevant parties. He has no chance of forming a government at all.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 10, 2017, 11:21:02 pm
Inshallah Dutch Trump will win.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on March 10, 2017, 11:24:39 pm
Inshallah Dutch Trump will win.
French Trump? Inshallah?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 11, 2017, 01:52:18 am
Mashallah, soon brother.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MaxLam on March 11, 2017, 02:07:17 pm
New documentary about FSE shitposters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JyTW4Rg2tE
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 11, 2017, 10:16:26 pm
So...... Turkey is trying to interfere with the sovereignty of my country?

Top kek. Bring it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on March 11, 2017, 10:58:08 pm
They did it just a few days ago with Germany too. But Germany has no balls and did nothing.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on March 11, 2017, 11:52:53 pm
It's Erdogan's typical response to everything these days:

'You don't agree with me, so that means you must be Nazis. You're wrong and I am right.'
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 12, 2017, 12:16:25 am
So...... Turkey is trying to interfere with the sovereignty of my country?

Top kek. Bring it.

Makes a change from the EU doing it I guess.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 12, 2017, 03:35:21 am
It's a power game to them. And they always win.

Get kicked out - 'Look, they are nazi's and hate us!"

Allowed to stay - "Look how strong we are!"

What worries me more is the behavior of Turkish Dutchmen in this whole incident.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on March 12, 2017, 09:30:40 am
Turkish riots in Rotterdamm dutch police showed them who is boss. Shows you how great integration worked lel
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 12, 2017, 10:22:56 am
Shows you how great integration worked lel

None of the governments gave a damn about integration, let's be honest. Being branded a Nazi was just too scary in 2016 to worry about that.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on March 12, 2017, 10:39:08 am
Well the thing is, almost all other minorities fit in just fine. In germany we have tons of russians, vietnamese, polish people etc. But they tried to fit in on their own. Some turkish people do that to, heck one of my best friends is turkish and more german then I will ever be. But people like him are the minoritie when it comes to immigration from muslim countries.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 12, 2017, 11:35:42 am
I can relate. However, all the "western" Muslims I know were born and raised in the West and didn't have strictly religious parents. That's a true rarity.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 12, 2017, 12:10:54 pm
The influence Ankara has over these people is troubling and with the internet nowadays, it's hard to stop them from being influenced. Personally I don't see these people protesting my government (and to some extent the sovereignty of this country) as my fellow countrymen. They are, however, still Dutch citizens and because they're in the NEtherlands they're protected by our constitution, which means that we can't just deport them to where their loyalties lie, which is disappointing in this case but really its'good we can't just kick out anyone the government doesn't like.


And seriously, it was like 300 people. Who gives a shit, really?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on March 12, 2017, 12:50:59 pm
It raises the question why they want to have Dutch citizenship when they support Erdogan, a man who is against every principle our country stands for.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 12, 2017, 01:26:10 pm
What worries me more is the behavior of Turkish Dutchmen in this whole incident.

Lol, I think you mean they're Turkish people who happen to have Dutch passports. Clearly they're more loyal to Ankara than to Amsterdam.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Brave Sir Charge on March 12, 2017, 02:19:38 pm
It's Erdogan's typical response to everything these days:

'You don't agree with me, so that means you must be Nazis. You're wrong and I am right.'
imo, Erdocunt is the biggest nazi around.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on March 12, 2017, 03:50:24 pm
While Turkey and the Netherlands have their war of words we are low key invading Syria  8)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on March 12, 2017, 05:33:34 pm
It raises the question why they want to have Dutch citizenship when they support Erdogan, a man who is against every principle our country stands for.

Because better standards of living, work, healthcare and all that shite.
They don't understand that when you are guest (or well... "part of it") in a different country you should behave to their rules. I think it's just Turkish mentality.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 12, 2017, 08:22:32 pm
They don't understand that when you are guest (or well... "part of it") in a different country you should behave to their rules. I think it's just Turkish mentality.

And that's what your guests have been doing, is it?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 12, 2017, 10:27:19 pm
While Turkey and the Netherlands have their war of words we are low key invading Syria  8)

I read it on a military news site, indeed. Quite interesting. Especially the part where they were deploying infantry, but they wouldn't at all be deployed to the front *rolls eyes*


Lol, I think you mean they're Turkish people who happen to have Dutch passports. Clearly they're more loyal to Ankara than to Amsterdam.

The Hague*  but I agree completely.
The mayor of Rotterdam handled the situation very well, though. The riots could've been much worse.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on March 12, 2017, 11:43:32 pm
Spoiler
While Turkey and the Netherlands have their war of words we are low key invading Syria  8)

I read it on a military news site, indeed. Quite interesting. Especially the part where they were deploying infantry, but they wouldn't at all be deployed to the front *rolls eyes*


Lol, I think you mean they're Turkish people who happen to have Dutch passports. Clearly they're more loyal to Ankara than to Amsterdam.

The Hague*  but I agree completely.
The mayor of Rotterdam handled the situation very well, though. The riots could've been much worse.
[close]
With over 700 there already it's pretty much an invasion, and on my mil hub there's a deployment of nearly 3000 82nd airborne boys to Syria very soon.

Does Erdogan want to fight every country?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on March 13, 2017, 11:46:20 am
The Great thing is that Turkey is part of NATO.

Yet it has big troubles with Greece and now pisses off a lot of other countries too.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 13, 2017, 11:51:02 am
Does Erdogan want to fight every country?

Not nessecarily, but I don't tihnk he gives a shit at the moment. He has a constitutional amendment on a referendum to give the president more power, extend term limits and thta sort of power-grabbing dictator-y bullshit. The point is, he doesn't have a majority yet, so he tries to portray himself as a strong man who can handle any great nation nad tries to show he has Europe by the balls.

Kind of silly. Erdogan is digging his own grave at the moment.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on March 13, 2017, 06:03:36 pm
Kek
https://www.thelocal.se/20120614/41442 (https://www.thelocal.se/20120614/41442)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on March 13, 2017, 06:55:16 pm
Kek
https://www.thelocal.se/20120614/41442 (https://www.thelocal.se/20120614/41442)

That is a fucking wild ride of a news article. I am not sure if I believe it. Sounds like a typical 19 year old boasting about himself.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 13, 2017, 09:45:21 pm
"The 19-year-old, who came to Sweden as a refugee in 2010, had lived with the royal couple, and Magnuson had acted as his mentor"

Crown Jewel stealing refugees. Alrite.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 13, 2017, 11:08:33 pm
https://www.thelocal.se/20170313/turkish-politician-campaigns-in-stockholm

Sweden Yes!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BlueMoon_IT on March 13, 2017, 11:32:32 pm
"The 19-year-old, who came to Sweden as a refugee in 2010, had lived with the royal couple, and Magnuson had acted as his mentor"

Crown Jewel stealing refugees. Alrite.
This is getting funnier and funnier ahahah SWEDEN YES!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on March 14, 2017, 12:00:10 am
Spoiler
While Turkey and the Netherlands have their war of words we are low key invading Syria  8)

I read it on a military news site, indeed. Quite interesting. Especially the part where they were deploying infantry, but they wouldn't at all be deployed to the front *rolls eyes*


Lol, I think you mean they're Turkish people who happen to have Dutch passports. Clearly they're more loyal to Ankara than to Amsterdam.

The Hague*  but I agree completely.
The mayor of Rotterdam handled the situation very well, though. The riots could've been much worse.
[close]
With over 700 there already it's pretty much an invasion, and on my mil hub there's a deployment of nearly 3000 82nd airborne boys to Syria very soon.

Does Erdogan want to fight every country?
82nd... kek
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 14, 2017, 05:16:28 pm
Erdogan has started talking about Dutch cowardice in Srebrenica. Damn he went there lol.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39270095
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Brave Sir Charge on March 14, 2017, 05:20:10 pm
I thought nazi's and muslims where friendly?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on March 14, 2017, 05:50:55 pm
I thought nazi's and muslims where friendly?
Yea, hitler had many Muslim allies
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Brave Sir Charge on March 14, 2017, 05:54:05 pm
So according to Erdocunt, We killed our friends?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 14, 2017, 05:54:33 pm
Erdogan has started talking about Dutch cowardice in Srebrenica. Damn he went there lol.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39270095

He speaks of mass murder and cowardice.
It is a low move and I agree with our prime minister: it is pure forged history, it doesn't even come close to what he claims it is. But then again, it's irrelevant because it's what the Turks want to hear.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 14, 2017, 06:52:53 pm
This is hilarious, I think Erdogan is genuinely retarded. I have friends in west Turkey who told me about how bad Erdogan is for tourism (that and ISIS obviously) so I thought the public resented him. After Rotterdam and the coup I find the reality of the average Turk's fanaticism quite scary. 

So according to Erdocunt, We killed our friends?

It's funny, I'd have thought Amin al-Husseini was one of Erdogan's heroes.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on March 14, 2017, 07:11:08 pm
Sure, we deliberately killed 8000 in Srebenica. And we're all going to forget about the Armenian Genoice, Mr. Erdogan? 1.5 million deaths that you still do not wish to admit was a deliberate genoice? Or that it even happened?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on March 14, 2017, 11:57:25 pm
Praise Kek --> ~7:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k8NCCki5rQ#t=7m52s
Quote from: Rough Translation
In the islam you have mohammed. Mohammed was a war-lord, as it is called, a warlord(but he uses different word now but same meaning). (he) was a pedophile. (he) Was somebody who beheaded jews in forests. (he) Was somebody who, in his mekka and medina time, very aggresive was. Is until this day, in contradiction to jesus, an inspiration to people along with allah. You know that last year with all those attacks in Germany and entire Europe, They all shouted ''allahu akbar'' before they slit the throat of priests in Paris. That is the islam. I dont have to tell you that mohammed isnt jesus right? And if we dont defend ourself from that, if we dont have the courage to see the islam for what it is, and it isnt only jihad, its islam itself who is making sure that if we are looking (politically) correct away, that we will soon as the netherlands and the free West will cease to exist. And we can never tolerate that.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 15, 2017, 12:47:42 am
That's a nice bulletproof vest he's wearing.

Anyway, it's march 15 here. A few polling stations will open in about 5 hours, most will do so 3 hours later. They close at 21 PM local time (20 GMT), at which we will get the first exit polls. Not sure when we will get the first official results, could be anywhere from 10 to 2 am in the morning. Schiermonninkoog, an island muncipality with only a few hundred voters will be in first, as tradition. Final results might not be in until friday and with very close results where a single seat might give possible coalitions a majority, it will be interesting to see what happens. See you on the other side.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on March 15, 2017, 01:37:52 am
I offer you a bed(couch) and roof above of your head in case you need to escape the Netherlands quickly.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on March 15, 2017, 01:47:20 am
@William Don't just leave out the response regarding freedom of religion.
Quote
...but, if you treasure freedom, if you enjoy it and appreciate it, then you also give that to others, even if they don't share [your religion], and that is a freedom that is stronger than any threat, and that is a freedom that I defend.



What's an Armenian Genocide? I only see stronk Ottomans. Also did you know that Erdogan backwards spells Ataturk?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 15, 2017, 02:33:08 am
That's a nice bulletproof vest he's wearing.

Merkel rides around in a bullet proof limo that is resistant to explosives and is escorted by a small army of guards with handguns and SMGs. I think having any political ideology is dangerous in Europe  ;D

@William Don't just leave out the response regarding freedom of religion.
Quote
...but, if you treasure freedom, if you enjoy it and appreciate it, then you also give that to others, even if they don't share [your religion], and that is a freedom that is stronger than any threat, and that is a freedom that I defend.

Can't the Dutch MPs just block Wilders by defecting to other parties? Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Freedom or the concept of democracy doesn't exist in Europe and is shunned when proposed, it seems.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on March 15, 2017, 02:46:43 am
Which political leader of a major nation is not running around with bodyguards and is driving bulletproof cars?
It only makes sense.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 15, 2017, 08:03:30 am
Wilders is already blocked anyway: no other party will form any coalition with him.


EDIT: any relevant party, that is.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 15, 2017, 12:07:13 pm
Can't the Dutch MPs just block Wilders by defecting to other parties? Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Freedom or the concept of democracy doesn't exist in Europe and is shunned when proposed, it seems.

Not sure what you mean. Defecting to other parties is extremely uncommon in the Netherlands and I can't rightly remember it ever happening. Splitting from a party and becoming independent is quite common though. We had no less then eight seats splitting from their faction in the last four years. Six out of those formed their own party, of which only two have a real shot of returning to parliament.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 15, 2017, 02:38:27 pm
I'm awaiting Duuring's prediction
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 15, 2017, 05:04:19 pm
There's not really anything to predict. Our system doesn't provide one 'winner', up to four parties could become the biggest and several minor parties might or might not make it into parliament. I'm hoping for a D66 victory, even though I did not vote for them. It would be a great example if we had a strong pro-EU prime minister.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on March 15, 2017, 05:31:52 pm
VVD, PVV, CDA, D66 and GL are all able to become the biggest. It's a very close race, but I am expecting VVD to come out narrowly on top. But it has to be said, our system is a proportional representation system, so there is no 'winner takes all' system in place. So it's difficult to really call someone 'the winner'. What I personally find far more interesting is that several minor parties with a few seats are projected to gain a lot of seats this election, especially GL.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 15, 2017, 06:06:31 pm
Well, since nobody's brave enough to make a prediction, I'll say the polls will be proven wrong and PVV will be the biggest party. Wilders has no chance of becoming PM of course.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 15, 2017, 09:39:47 pm
Exit polls put VVD at 31 and PVV, CDA and D66 at 19.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on March 15, 2017, 09:43:16 pm
Voter turnout is good, supposedly around 80%. We'll see if anything changes overnight.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 15, 2017, 10:51:05 pm
Well, since nobody's brave enough to make a prediction, I'll say the polls will be proven wrong and PVV will be the biggest party. Wilders has no chance of becoming PM of course.

Well, you seem to be wrong.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 15, 2017, 11:06:46 pm
Well, since nobody's brave enough to make a prediction, I'll say the polls will be proven wrong and PVV will be the biggest party. Wilders has no chance of becoming PM of course.

Well, you seem to be wrong.

Pretty much lol. I think the MSM are going to massively exaggerate this and claim it as a great victory against populism etc. I suspect Rutte's shift to copying PVV style rhetoric on integration and Islam during the campaign will be conveniently brushed under the carpet.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on March 15, 2017, 11:14:14 pm
It remains to be seen how much of Rutte's more far right wing ideals will stand. He'll need support from the centrist and even some centre-left parties to form a majority coalition.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on March 15, 2017, 11:20:09 pm
Always was a long shot hoping Wilders could get anywhere in NL, lol. Euroskepticism may be sweeping the continent but I wouldn't expect it from BE or NL ever.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on March 15, 2017, 11:46:56 pm
Well this puts a dent in the push to retake Constantinople and the Holy Land. A true shame
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 16, 2017, 12:01:36 am
Well, he got more seats than UKIP at least. France can still kick the stool, anyway.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on March 16, 2017, 01:15:19 am
Well, he got more seats than UKIP at least.
That's because the Dutch use a democratic system which awards political power based on the proportion of the vote rather than a broken ass FPTP system like the UK and US.
I may not like the PVV or UKIP or the various other right wing parties, but any and all political viewpoints should be represented according to the degree that the population agree with them. If a party completely goes against it's manifesto in a coalition then it can be appropriately punished by voting for a different party without the fear that doing so will make the party that you most detest stronger.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on March 16, 2017, 01:38:22 am
We do FPTP to
Notice us
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on March 16, 2017, 01:45:15 am
We do FPTP to
Notice us
But Theodin, Papa Trudeau said 2015 was the last time we'll use FPTP!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on March 16, 2017, 02:29:25 am
letting a bunch of poor people who have made bad life choices decide a leader.... democracy is gay
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 16, 2017, 02:52:29 am
The percentage of the popular vote for the PVV is almost the exact same as UKIP in the United Kingdom, around 13%.

The easiest and most likely coalition, VVD-CDA-D66 still lacks 6 seats for a majority in the chamber. They'll have to invite the Christian Union, or (unlikely) some left-wing party.

Theoretically, a left-wing coalition is still possible but also quite unlikely.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on March 16, 2017, 03:47:32 am
Holy shit that guy looks like Trudeau
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 16, 2017, 07:57:00 am
Holy shit that guy looks like Trudeau

Was wondering when someone would say that.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Hadhod on March 16, 2017, 08:53:59 am
letting a bunch of poor people who have made bad life choices decide a leader.... democracy is gay
LuL
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 16, 2017, 10:57:41 am
Well, since nobody's brave enough to make a prediction, I'll say the polls will be proven wrong and PVV will be the biggest party. Wilders has no chance of becoming PM of course.

Well, you seem to be wrong.

Pretty much lol. I think the MSM are going to massively exaggerate this and claim it as a great victory against populism etc.

Just checked Facebook and yup you called it
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 16, 2017, 11:03:15 am
The PVV has lost, no matter their small increase in seats. Wilders ran a terrible campaign and it's no wonder he didn't convince 9 out of 10 voters. If not now, then how is he ever going to win?

Wouldn't be surprised if the FvD starts taking over most of their voters base in years to come, although that party has yet to prove itself so nothing is certain.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 16, 2017, 12:56:21 pm
What a stunning victory for liberalism this election was. Oh wait...

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.images.express.co.uk%2Fimg%2Fdynamic%2F78%2F590x%2Fsecondary%2FMark-Rutte-800546.jpg&hash=1a5a3dc71cab3a34f1ff91519fb7e25dc9f75622)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 16, 2017, 03:14:17 pm
Yeah, he went populist to gain some votes. His party is still a member of ALDE and parties calling for a NEXIT gained 21 seats in total. We're staying.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on March 16, 2017, 08:10:29 pm
Yeah I mean considering the "perfect storm" for right wing voters with Trump, Brexit, immigrants, terrorist attacks and so on, Wilders should have done a lot better.

Then again, his party manifest includes things which are straight up unconstitutional and the line "No more money to development aid, windmills, art, innovation, broadcasting etc". He used etc in his manifesto. God damn.
Also love the way he just put "lower rent" with zero explanation of how he would artificially control the entire nation's housing market, nor how that would benefit the country.
What can I say, when a party's entire manifesto fits onto 1 A4 side (written in bullet points) you know they mean business.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Norwegian13 on March 16, 2017, 09:19:09 pm
Wilders is way too radical in my opinion, FvD seems like an alright right-wing party, and a good alternative to PVV, although I don't really know their party programme all to well.

Congratulations to them on gaining two seats as a new party, that's quite impressive, seeing as they just formed in 2015.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 17, 2017, 02:29:33 am
https://www.ft.com/content/c10aa4f8-08a5-11e7-97d1-5e720a26771b

Merkel's getting busy in preparation for September.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 17, 2017, 10:03:02 am
https://www.ft.com/content/c10aa4f8-08a5-11e7-97d1-5e720a26771b

Merkel's getting busy in preparation for September.

Damn, showing off on here with your FT subscription when the rest of us can't read it  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 17, 2017, 12:04:18 pm
For some reason the articles aren't blocked if you click from Google's news tab. I would never subscribe to FT garbage, kek  ;)

Quote from: FT
The German government has presented a draft law that would impose fines of up to €50m on social networks that fail to delete hate speech or fake news, in what amounts to the most draconian clampdown by a European country against internet platforms such as Facebook and Twitter. The law reflects mounting concern in German political circles about the potential influence fake news and hate speech could have on Germany’s federal election later this year, where Angela Merkel’s ruling conservatives are facing a strong challenge from the populist, anti-immigration Alternative for Germany (AfD).
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 17, 2017, 12:15:45 pm
Wilders is way too radical in my opinion, FvD seems like an alright right-wing party, and a good alternative to PVV, although I don't really know their party programme all to well.

FvD is just as bad as Wilders, if not worse. They have a number of extremely radical standpoints which undermine our democracy. This is not that strange anymore, but since the entire motivation for this is a 'party-kartel' and some kind of 'new world order' conspiracy theory on which they base their entire program, they are dangerous. This may not be as obvious in their program, but I have been to one of their gatherings. It is scary how vocal Baudet is about the 'establishment conspiracy' and how they and 'the left' have ruined this entire country and they continue to ruin this country. Even though basically all his knowledge on legislation and politics he learned from his time in uni, which is hilariously ironic.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 17, 2017, 05:21:07 pm
His messages the past two days are plain ridicious, pretending he can make a decisive difference other parties apparantly cannot possible achieve. His no.2, a lawyer, has already stated he won't be available for a while because of his current job and has said he wants to continue doing some work as a lawywer, which to me signals he just doesn't take the job serious. Small factions have a huge workload if they want to achieve anything. Pretending it's a part-time job is ridicious.

The memes are pretty good, though.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 17, 2017, 09:27:19 pm
Well, that escalated quickly.

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article162946953/Erdogan-ruft-Tuerken-in-Europa-zum-Kinderkriegen-auf.html
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 18, 2017, 06:50:23 am
"Do not make three, but five children, because you are the future of Europe," Erdogan said Friday in Eskisehir in the West of Turkey."

Still laughing at Brexit? :)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on March 18, 2017, 07:11:07 am
"Do not make three, but five children, because you are the future of Europe," Erdogan said Friday in Eskisehir in the West of Turkey."

Still laughing at Brexit? :)
he said that because he wants to go to more birthday parties
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 18, 2017, 07:13:29 am
Heh. Duuring may actually become a minority after all kek

So much for righty hysteria
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on March 18, 2017, 09:28:55 am
The problem is that you cant talk about the dangers that come with these uneven birthrates because you are imedeately shoven into this whole white genocide shit.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 18, 2017, 11:58:12 am
There's not going to be a 'white genocide' that's just silly. However there will be very large Muslim minorities in various Western countries, in some places approaching 20-25% of the population in the not too distant future. This is obviously going to cause very severe political and social problems and anyone who denies that is retarded.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on March 18, 2017, 01:43:59 pm
LARGE minorities what?  :P


Also, his idea is stupid. I have the feeling that the Turkish people (Those that are loyal to King Erdogan) that live in Germany already have 5 or more children... Those that integrated well, do not.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 18, 2017, 04:19:46 pm
LARGE minorities what?  :P

20-25% of the population is still a minority, but large enough to exert very significant political power. Future politicians will have to pander to these groups to win votes, even more so in PR systems, and the end result will be quite ugly. If Europe can't integrate them when they're at 10% or less of the population they have no chance when they make up 20% or more.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Hadhod on March 18, 2017, 04:58:45 pm
The boldest predictions give 8 % for 2020 10% for 2050 and 25 % for 2100. That is without taking into account that birth rate of Muslims declines once they start living in Europe for 1 or 2 generations. (And this is all Muslims not just turks )
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 18, 2017, 05:10:08 pm
 [citation needed] (http://)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on March 18, 2017, 05:17:20 pm
[citation needed] (http://)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Hadhod on March 18, 2017, 05:58:19 pm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europe

Though I misquoted it. The 8% were for 2030 and not 2020
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: fruitocino on March 18, 2017, 06:18:58 pm
That still is a relevant amount of people, and like StevenChilton said politicians will have to adjust their campaign accordingly, or new parties will be added to the spectrum.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 18, 2017, 09:07:27 pm
This is where I got my information from: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jan/28/muslim-population-country-projection-2030

That '8% by 2030' figure is for the whole of the European continent and therefore highly misleading. European Muslims are highly concentrated in Western European countries-for instance in France the Muslim population was already around 8% in 2011. The Pew Forum data was also compiled before Merkel's 2015 'Open Door' policy. I think it's very fair to say the Muslim population of many European countries will approach 20% or more within our lifetimes supposing current trends continue.

Keep in mind 17% of the current US population is Hispanic and look how much political power they wield as a group in an electoral system that operates FPTP.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 18, 2017, 10:47:21 pm
Immigrant group birthrates go down to the native level usually after only one generation. In the Netherlands, the 2013 birth rate was just 1/3 of that of 2003. It's a little more then natives, but quickly diminishing. We had like 16.000 refugees in 2016, not all of whom are muslim, not all of whom will be permitted to stay, and not all of whom will stay in the Netherlands at all. And then I don't even include secularization.

But hey, whatever.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 18, 2017, 11:38:40 pm
This is mostly being driven by migration levels rather than fertility rates. We'll see in time whether the birthrates decline to native levels-I doubt they will because they are generally among the least integrated migrants groups, and Pew seem to think they won't decline that dramatically, but who knows. I think they will go down a bit but not to contemporary native European levels.

As for 'they'll come round and secularise like the rest of us' even arch-liberals in the UK are starting to give up on that idea: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trevor-phillips-muslims_uk_570b5d63e4b0ae22c1dff5aa

I think the scenario I've outlined is a fairly reasonable and rational assumption given the data. I'm not saying 'European Caliphate is imminent!!!111!!1' or 'muh white genocide'. All I'm pointing out is that many Western European countries will in the long-term have large Muslim minorities in significant enough numbers to exert real political influence and many of us will not like the kind of consequences stemming from that.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on March 19, 2017, 11:27:51 am
Yeah so? If a large part of the population is Muslim they have a right to exert political influence. Even if it is a small part of the population they have a right to do that. If you do not like it, do not vote for their Parties. That is how democrazy works...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 19, 2017, 11:36:41 am
Yes, I'm sure the policies they will vote for will be entirely secular. . .


 
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 19, 2017, 12:51:46 pm
Yeah so? If a large part of the population is Muslim they have a right to exert political influence. Even if it is a small part of the population they have a right to do that. If you do not like it, do not vote for their Parties. That is how democrazy works...

In other words you embrace the fact that a group that finds it very difficult to integrate into Western society and generally holds illiberal views is going to exert significant political influence in the future. Okay, sure. The majority of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, can't say I look forward to political initiatives in that regard (not gay myself) but that's how democracy works and they have a right to try to persecute gay people if that's what they want.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 19, 2017, 01:04:26 pm
This is mostly being driven by migration levels rather than fertility rates. We'll see in time whether the birthrates decline to native levels-I doubt they will because they are generally among the least integrated migrants groups, and Pew seem to think they won't decline that dramatically, but who knows. I think they will go down a bit but not to contemporary native European levels.

Figures show an incredible fast decline in birth rates under immigrants yet you still doubt it based on how you feel about them. Acceptance of LGBT's is also increasing steadily. We are changing their views, not the other way around. At least in my country. Maybe the United Kingdom is just fucked up, who knows.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on March 19, 2017, 01:52:42 pm
Unlike other people I can actually accept people that are of different opinion than me. If they win the election and get their policies out, that is fine. As I said that is how Democracy works.

If you fail to rally enough people to your cause, then that is your fault. It is your obligation to rally people to your cause and it is their obligation to rally people to their cause. Just because you fail and loose the election does not mean that they have no right to enact their policies. If you do not like them, change them next year.

Also talking about Homosexuality, that is now how it works. A fundamental right like this can not be easily removed. For example a party that puts gender UNequality on their agenda will not succeed with that. No court will pass a law that discriminates people for being a different gender. If it even gets that far, in Germany a party that is against the constitution is illegal.

And if a law like this still passes, fair game, as long as they did everything by the rulebook you can not do anything about it. (Try again next election, I guess?) As I said, that is how democracy works.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 19, 2017, 01:56:14 pm
As I said that is how Democracy works.

Doesn't the German curriculum teach all about how a democratic system can be abused and allow human rights to be breached? I'm preddy sure it does.

And if a law like this still passes, fair game, as long as they did everything by the rulebook you can not do anything about it. (Try again next election, I guess?) As I said, that is how democracy works.

Jesus Christ, you wouldn't be able to tell you're German or anything! "If a law breaches human rights, so be it, **as long as it's done via the rulebook aka via a loophole!!**  :)

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on March 19, 2017, 02:57:50 pm
Jesus Olafson.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 19, 2017, 03:06:59 pm
Always strange when a German tries to argue liberal constitutions can't be easily changed.

This is mostly being driven by migration levels rather than fertility rates. We'll see in time whether the birthrates decline to native levels-I doubt they will because they are generally among the least integrated migrants groups, and Pew seem to think they won't decline that dramatically, but who knows. I think they will go down a bit but not to contemporary native European levels.

Figures show an incredible fast decline in birth rates under immigrants yet you still doubt it based on how you feel about them. Acceptance of LGBT's is also increasing steadily. We are changing their views, not the other way around. At least in my country. Maybe the United Kingdom is just fucked up, who knows.

Not 'how I feel about them', more because Pew themselves state they don't think the birth rates will decline to native levels and that makes sense given as a group they're among the least integrated. Like Mormons in the US, Muslims in America will most likely retain higher than average birthrates. And anyway this is mostly driven by immigration levels rather than birthrates.

I have no idea about Islam in the Netherlands, but in the UK it's the other way round. The younger generations are actually more likely to hold extreme views on most things, though some are more accepting of LGBT people (though when I say 'some' they're still very much a minority viewpoint among their age group).

https://youtu.be/xQcSvBsU-FM?t=24m
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on March 19, 2017, 04:06:27 pm
This is where I got my information from: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jan/28/muslim-population-country-projection-2030

That '8% by 2030' figure is for the whole of the European continent and therefore highly misleading. European Muslims are highly concentrated in Western European countries-for instance in France the Muslim population was already around 8% in 2011. The Pew Forum data was also compiled before Merkel's 2015 'Open Door' policy. I think it's very fair to say the Muslim population of many European countries will approach 20% or more within our lifetimes supposing current trends continue.

Keep in mind 17% of the current US population is Hispanic and look how much political power they wield as a group in an electoral system that operates FPTP.
I still don't get the whole "25% of the population in some places" bit. By some places I assume you mean relevant countries in Europe, where it simply isn't true. Large Western countries we're talking about 7-10% by 2030, with the UK at 8.2%, Sweden at 9.9%, Netherlands at 7.8%, France at 10.3% and Germany at 7.1%.
I can't actually open the original Pew data and there's no actual indication of when that's from. It could have gone up with migrants or could have stayed at similar levels with decreasing birth rates, but again with no indication of when it's from it's very difficult to know.

As for if minorities get power, then surely they deserve it; that's how the system is set up.
If it's FPTP then even if all Muslims voted for a single party (ShariaLaw4All) then they'd have 0 power in the UK as they'd still have a minority of the vote. FPTP makes it incredibly difficult for parties outside the main 2-4 to have any meaningful impact on governing.
If they're in a proper political system like the Netherlands then they'd be like any other populist party and would draw a portion of the vote and either be ignored when coalitions are formed or have a minor impact on policy changes when part of a governing coalition (as should happen). Geert Wilders was part of a governing coalition and did fuck all.

I really don't get the whole panic and fearmongering regarding an increase in Muslim population. Even if/when Muslims DO take up 25% (or 50%) of the population, if it's entirely through childbirth then you'll still have to wait another 18 years for them all to actually be able to vote. Any immigrants won't be able to vote immediately either, and will have to live there for X years and become citizens. If they're able to do that then in many places they'll already have to speak the language and will already be integrating to some degree.
You guys let media headlines influence you way too much.

Edit: Also, please provide some evidence for
Quote
in the UK it's the other way round. The younger generations are actually more likely to hold extreme views on most things, though some are more accepting of LGBT people (though when I say 'some' they're still very much a minority viewpoint among their age group).
And the video doesn't play in the UK :/
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 19, 2017, 04:16:15 pm
You guys let media headlines influence you way too much.

Seems like you don't read the news at all, Tiki. Do you really need a study to tell you that the younger generation of British Muslims are more extreme than the older generation? Do you live in the UK? Have you ever? lmao
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 19, 2017, 05:18:09 pm
I said '20-25% in some places in the not too distant future'. That is a very fair prediction to make it if it's going to be 10% by 2030 in Sweden and France. I didn't put a date on it but I said it would be within our lifetimes. And as I pointed out this data is from 2011 and Merkel's recent open door policy has quickened this trend. Re-read what I wrote, I made it quite clear this wasn't an immediately imminent prospect but rather a long-term trend.

People keep focusing on birth rates here but as I keep saying it's actually more to do with migration levels. Read the Pew research and they say that the percentage of migrants into the EU28 who are from Muslim-majority countries has increased every decade and they now make up 40% of the total. I see no reason why that trend shouldn't continue.

It's not a question of whether they 'deserve' power or anything like that, it's that they will have it and I don't think we'll like the consequences. Latinos make up 17% of the US population and already wield a lot of political influence. Muslims in Europe will at some point reach a comparable situation, and this matters because as I think we've accepted they hold political and social views that are at odds with the rest of the population. European Muslims are not adapting to Europe, instead we're increasingly adapting to them. If you doubt that then ask yourself why so few media outlets will dare publish a cartoon of Muhammad anymore, or why a very large amount of the meat we buy in supermarkets is halal.

The evidence is in the video. I thought you were in the Netherlands? It's blocked in the UK but available there. It's basically Trevor Phillips interviewing a few Liberal Muslims (Yasmin Alibahai Brown, you may have heard of her, she's as liberal as they come) who are warning 'we're a dying breed' and that the battle for a liberal version of British Islam was essentially lost to the hardliners. He then says there's a glimmer of hope because '28% of British Muslims aged 16-25 say homosexuality should not be illegal verses 5% aged over 65', though admits it's not much to go on because that's still a minority view in the age group and they also hold the same % of negative views on Jewish people and all the rest of it.

Phillips also says that secularisation of British Muslims is a forlorn hope because a) they're being exposed to hard-line views via the media they consume and through trips back to their ancestral homeland etc, and b) the scale of migration means their numbers are continually bolstered by first generation migrants where such views are common, thus discouraging the secularisation process.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 19, 2017, 05:53:03 pm
Integration of immigrants leaves much to be desired, yes. We agree on that. What we probably don't agree on is the root cause.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on March 19, 2017, 11:08:05 pm
You guys let media headlines influence you way too much.
Seems like you don't read the news at all, Tiki. Do you really need a study to tell you that the younger generation of British Muslims are more extreme than the older generation? Do you live in the UK? Have you ever? lmao
I read the news every damn day, I just don't accept everything I read at face value for obvious reasons, with Tory Cabinet Ministers getting part time jobs as Editors. All I'm asking for is a little evidence to back it up.
It's very easy to draw conclusions about a general population from your own experiences, but you tend to surround yourself with and associate with others who agree with your views. Confirmation bias is a very real thing. The fact that the Muslims that I am friends with are all very liberal and happy to discuss abortion, alcohol, sex and so on is obviously one end of the spectrum but I'm not ignorant enough to think that I've spoken to a broad cross section of Muslims in society (Edit: and no, I'm not suggesting that you are).
I have lived in the UK for the past 2.5 years and did for a couple years when I was younger (I lived in the Netherlands in between). I thought you lived in North America?

@StevenChilton
Thanks for clarifying that, that does make more sense.
As for why people keep harking on about birth rates, they were brought up by the Erdogan link and were being discussed, so I figured I'd weigh in. I agree that the influx of 1st generation migrants is very probably slowing the integration process for those who moved here a long time ago or were born here, but hard-line views are only being strengthened by Islamophobia. I'm all for tougher immigration policies in the current climate, but nobody who legally migrates to the UK should be treated like a second class citizen.
I agree with Duuring that I'd love there to be better integration of immigrants, both in the UK and the rest of Europe, and that Erdogan and his ilk are making that significantly harder. As for underlying causes if anyone actually knew for certain (and could prove it) then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on March 20, 2017, 10:22:59 pm
There's only so far that courts can go to prevent travel bans. As it is, now that Green Card holders etc are exempt, I actually don't know what grounds they can use to block it. Even if you disagree with it (like I do), you have to accept that Trump is doing it for security purposes and has reasonable grounds to do so. I really don't understand the current case against it.
"Loses" as the second largest party and forcing other parties to the right? The real losers are Labour in the Netherlands. They got completely demolished.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on March 21, 2017, 03:12:52 am
No matter how many votes AfD ends up getting it's still a win. The German alt-right is viewed (from my albeit limited understanding) like a combination of the Nazis and the KKK, and if AfD gets any legitimacy that's huge.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on March 21, 2017, 07:49:58 am
Thats not the case. Who have you been talking to jesus.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 21, 2017, 11:56:44 am
AfD has about the same chance of success as An-Communism, Fraud.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 21, 2017, 12:00:57 pm
So we're probably getting a coalition of three pro-European parties and one Christian-Democrat centrist. Le Pen is trailing in every poll. Germany is between CDU and the more pro-European SPD.

Where's that 'patrioting spring' at, boys?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 21, 2017, 12:29:57 pm
If only the moral high ground was enough to save the union from its impending demise. If only...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 21, 2017, 02:40:56 pm
So we're probably getting a coalition of three pro-European parties and one Christian-Democrat centrist. Le Pen is trailing in every poll. Germany is between CDU and the more pro-European SPD.

Where's that 'patrioting spring' at, boys?

All the eurosceptics need is one or two key victories and the EU project unravels. Brexit was the first phase, the second will be a major economy leaving the Eurozone and the most likely candidate is Italy. Once you can prove that European integration is reversible without the sky falling in then you're halfway there.

I think you're showing your hubris again Duuring. Wilders progressed to 2nd place, despite running a crap campaign, in an election where the Dutch PM had to prostitute himself to the anti-migration crowd and adopt their rhetoric. It was a victory, but hardly a moral one.

The worst outcome of 2017 for the European Union would be for Merkel to be defeated by Schultz. The EU needs a pragmatist rather than a zealot, and I should think the very election of Chancellor Schultz will drive Eastern Europe even further away. I don't think many people seriously believed 2017 would deliver PM Wilders or President Le Pen, but it will show them making big gains. The EU has never looked weaker and I should think all it would take would be another economic or political crisis to drive it over the cliff edge.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 21, 2017, 03:08:58 pm
It was painfully obvious from the get-go that Wilders would basically suffer a defeat if he didn't get anything BUT being the largest party. Now that Rutte can actually form a coalition, Wilders has become as isolated as he can be. Sure he got 19 seats, but he's still as poltically irrelevant as ever, as literally no party you can take seriously politically speaking will be working together with him.

Oh and the senate is not an issue for Rutte as well, at least less than the last two years.
Wilders will be poltically dead until the next election.

Or as soon as ISIS hits Amsterdam.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on March 21, 2017, 03:45:21 pm
I wonder what happens to easyjet and all the other british low cost airlines, once Brexit kicks in.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on March 21, 2017, 04:14:48 pm
It was painfully obvious from the get-go that Wilders would basically suffer a defeat if he didn't get anything BUT being the largest party. Now that Rutte can actually form a coalition, Wilders has become as isolated as he can be. Sure he got 19 seats, but he's still as poltically irrelevant as ever, as literally no party you can take seriously politically speaking will be working together with him.

Oh and the senate is not an issue for Rutte as well, at least less than the last two years.
Wilders will be poltically dead until the next election.

Or as soon as ISIS hits Amsterdam.
Well it did force Rutte's party to partially adopt right-leaning ideas. It isn't the stance that Wilders has but he did leave a slight impact on the overall politics of the United Provinces. However, I don't know if they'll actually follow through.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 21, 2017, 05:09:26 pm
It was painfully obvious from the get-go that Wilders would basically suffer a defeat if he didn't get anything BUT being the largest party. Now that Rutte can actually form a coalition, Wilders has become as isolated as he can be. Sure he got 19 seats, but he's still as poltically irrelevant as ever, as literally no party you can take seriously politically speaking will be working together with him.

Oh and the senate is not an issue for Rutte as well, at least less than the last two years.
Wilders will be poltically dead until the next election.

Or as soon as ISIS hits Amsterdam.
Well it did force Rutte's party to partially adopt right-leaning ideas. It isn't the stance that Wilders has but he did leave a slight impact on the overall politics of the United Provinces. However, I don't know if they'll actually follow through.

Rutte will have to if he wants to keep what little credibility he has... He never specified what measures he wants to take so he might just ignore it completely, which is not unlike him, at all.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 21, 2017, 05:24:46 pm
I wonder what happens to easyjet and all the other british low cost airlines, once Brexit kicks in.

They'll have to fly a little higher because we're going to build a massive f*cking wall in the middle of the English Channel and Luxembourg's going to pay for it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 21, 2017, 08:37:54 pm
We're a proportional consensus multi-party democracy. We don't do radical chances.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 21, 2017, 08:51:53 pm
Gotta love Thierry Baudet:

"Now suddenly they [established parties] realise we are a relevant factor (...)"

Lol sit down, honey, two seats makes you about as an arts degree.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on March 21, 2017, 10:08:13 pm
I wonder what happens to easyjet and all the other british low cost airlines, once Brexit kicks in.

They'll have to fly a little higher because we're going to build a massive f*cking wall in the middle of the English Channel and Luxembourg's going to pay for it.

Haha...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 22, 2017, 12:48:35 pm
I thought you lived in North America?

Hm? I'm a fellow BritBro
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 24, 2017, 05:38:12 pm
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PivFArrHN6g
[close]

Will Putin be the man to save Europe? ;) 7
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 24, 2017, 08:04:24 pm
No, but he might invade Belarus.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on March 24, 2017, 08:28:00 pm
Putin has no interest but his own. And I very strongly doubt he wants to 'save' Europe. If anything, I think he would rather see it divided and weak.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on March 24, 2017, 08:31:03 pm
Putin has no interest but his own. And I very strongly doubt he wants to 'save' Europe. If anything, I think he would rather see it divided and weak.
a country having their own intrest in mind... what a monster
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on March 24, 2017, 08:36:46 pm
No, but he might invade Belarus.
Lmfao I like that
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 24, 2017, 08:40:20 pm
Not sure more refugees is what we need right now.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on March 24, 2017, 08:46:03 pm
Putin has no interest but his own. And I very strongly doubt he wants to 'save' Europe. If anything, I think he would rather see it divided and weak.
a country having their own intrest in mind... what a monster
I mean, Putin does what he wants. I don't think Russia or its people really factors into any choice he makes.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on March 24, 2017, 08:57:51 pm
Not sure more refugees is what we need right now.
The Belarusians would integrate much better though
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 24, 2017, 09:00:35 pm
The EU is a common enemy in the eyes of Le Pen and Putin, let's not sensationalize any of their intentions. Putin can also play a nice part in tying up some loose ends, like ISIS.

As for Putin making any land grabs of consequence - I put my faith in the nuclear deterrent.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 24, 2017, 09:09:46 pm
Imagine you are the leader of any of the NATO-countries with nukes.

Lose a bit of Lithuania, or nuclear holocaust?

Lose a bit of Poland, or nuclear holocaust?

Lose eastern Europe in its entirety, or nuclear holocaust?

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 24, 2017, 09:46:02 pm
Take a bit of Lithuania, or nuclear holocaust?

Take a bit of Poland, or nuclear holocaust?

The nuclear deterrent goes both ways - any land loss is due to the EU failing to protect its member states sufficiently. The responsible falls onto the cash cow union. They must accept the fact that they must also embrace the downsides of forcing a political union.

Lose eastern Europe in its entirety, or nuclear holocaust?

let's not sensationalize any of their intentions
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on March 24, 2017, 09:53:19 pm
Take a bit of Lithuania, or nuclear holocaust?

Take a bit of Poland, or nuclear holocaust?

The nuclear deterrent goes both ways - any land loss is due to the EU failing to protect its member states sufficiently. The responsible falls onto the cash cow union. They must accept the fact that they must also embrace the downsides of forcing a political union.

Lose eastern Europe in its entirety, or nuclear holocaust?

let's not sensationalize any of their intentions
I mean, I'd honestly say Putin would steal eastern Europe given the chance.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 24, 2017, 10:21:24 pm
How likely is it the west will be willing to trigger nuclear holocaust just because Putin invades one or two countries? Zero. Nuclear weapons aren't going to keep anyone safe.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 24, 2017, 10:51:01 pm
Its economy is in the shit, its demographics are terrible, but Duuring seriously believes Russia is poised to annex parts of Eastern Europe. Lol.

Even if Russia had the capability to do that (it doesn't) it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Doing that would provoke Eastern Europe into ever greater reliance upon Brussels and would re-invigorate EU integration at a time when it's falling apart. That's probably why EU officials are busy putting out propaganda about the 'Russian menace' to the East. He would be far better off, as Putin knows perfectly well, sitting back doing nothing and watching the EU fall apart. He'll probably give things a subtle prod in the right direction with a coordinated leak to WikiLeaks or whatever every once in a while but that's about it.

Anyway even if pigs fly and Russia does decide to invade Europe and do a reverse Hitler/Napoleon the UK will be perfectly safe because we're an island. Putin only has one aircraft carrier that barely floats (it needs its own support ship to pull it along in case it breaks down, which is quite often). I mean just read this it's hilarious and should dispel any thoughts you might have that Russia is some kind of military superpower: https://warisboring.com/your-aircraft-carrier-is-a-piece-of-crap-f3f52d299588#.mksi3nys7
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 24, 2017, 10:54:05 pm
"Sovereignty" is an unrealistic goal for such nations located in eastern Europe. Let's not pretend like the EU isn't after power just as much as Putin.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on March 24, 2017, 11:07:49 pm
Its economy is in the shit, its demographics are terrible, but Duuring seriously believes Russia is poised to annex parts of Eastern Europe. Lol.

Even if Russia had the capability to do that (it doesn't) it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Doing that would provoke Eastern Europe into ever greater reliance upon Brussels and would re-invigorate EU integration at a time when it's falling apart. That's probably why EU officials are busy putting out propaganda about the 'Russian menace' to the East. He would be far better off, as Putin knows perfectly well, sitting back doing nothing and watching the EU fall apart. He'll probably give things a subtle prod in the right direction with a coordinated leak to WikiLeaks or whatever every once in a while but that's about it.

Anyway even if pigs fly and Russia does decide to invade Europe and do a reverse Hitler/Napoleon the UK will be perfectly safe because we're an island. Putin only has one aircraft carrier that barely floats (it needs its own support ship to pull it along in case it breaks down, which is quite often). I mean just read this it's hilarious and should dispel any thoughts you might have that Russia is some kind of military superpower: https://warisboring.com/your-aircraft-carrier-is-a-piece-of-crap-f3f52d299588#.mksi3nys7
Russia could easily annex the Baltic states, Belarus and Ukraine without much opposition. I'd say it'd be a struggle against Poland or any other European country but it could definitely wipe the ones I mentioned. Its not like it would though.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 25, 2017, 12:14:48 am
without much opposition

The Baltic states are in NATO and the EU, two organisations with a mutual defence clause, and are countries with large numbers of foreign military personnel stationed there. I think that would be a war Russia couldn't possibly win. Similarly I think if Russia tried to annex all Ukraine that would inevitably pit them against NATO.

Belarus is the only place Putin could take easily, it's an isolated country already within Moscow's orbit. Nobody's going to go to war to defend it. But the likelihood of Russian troops crossing the border anytime soon is very low. Putin doesn't want to upset the current momentum in the EU towards disintegration.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 25, 2017, 01:56:18 pm
Its economy is in the shit, its demographics are terrible, but Duuring seriously believes Russia is poised to annex parts of Eastern Europe. Lol.

I never said that. I said that relying on nuclear weapons to avoid conflict is retarded.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on March 25, 2017, 03:32:13 pm
Its economy is in the shit, its demographics are terrible, but Duuring seriously believes Russia is poised to annex parts of Eastern Europe. Lol.

I never said that. I said that relying on nuclear weapons to avoid conflict is retarded.
I agree with you commie shill but what other choice do we have? its been the only reason another major global conflict hasn't broken out since WW2
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 25, 2017, 03:44:35 pm
Its economy is in the shit, its demographics are terrible, but Duuring seriously believes Russia is poised to annex parts of Eastern Europe. Lol.

I never said that. I said that relying on nuclear weapons to avoid conflict is retarded.

Google "Cold War" :-|
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 25, 2017, 04:00:40 pm
Its economy is in the shit, its demographics are terrible, but Duuring seriously believes Russia is poised to annex parts of Eastern Europe. Lol.

I never said that. I said that relying on nuclear weapons to avoid conflict is retarded.

Eh? You literally said he might invade Belarus

No, but he might invade Belarus.

Also it's not retarded, we avoided WWIII between NATO and the Warsaw Pact because of them.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 25, 2017, 11:33:03 pm
Nuclear weapons have become one of the shittiest coercive weapons superpowers have these days, it's in almost all grand-strategic studies and a widely accepted fact in NATO militaries. Doesn't mean we should get rid of them, though. Gunboat diplopmacy still works better, especially carriers.

And granted, the Russian military isn't the superpower Putin wants the world to believe it is, it is rotten with corruption and really it's not that well equipped (save some exception here and there), but the bulk of it is out-of-date cold war stuff not up for major warfighting. This is changing, but it's very, very slowly doing so.

Russia also doesn't have the manpower or the simple fucking money to pay for a major invasion. Europe still has the largest army in the world and yes, they WILL all contribute when the Bear comes crashing the party.

Still, one shouldn't discount the fact that even with old equipment and corruption, EUrope hasn't been preparing for major warfighting for almost 30 years - a fact people easily discount as irrelevant, but almost no air force in europe, for example has trained on a relatively large scale on air-to-air combat against a developed nation since the cold war.

Since the war on terror began, there have been very, very little training missions going larger than a battalion for most european country (until Bison Drawkso, which was a major logistical disaster)

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 26, 2017, 11:54:40 pm
In case anyone thought populism was going to go away....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-26/mnuchin-not-worried-about-robotization-americas-workforce-despite-shocking-new-repor
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 27, 2017, 01:05:19 am
Oh yeah, he might very well invade Belarus, which isn't part of NATO or the EU or even trying to. Not to annex it, but considering it's militairy dependecy on Russia, another Crimean scenario is entirely possible. Then again, there is not much to gain or lose if Belarus tries to leave the Russian orbit. So yeah, he might, but probably not.

If nukes were the only reason war was avoided in the Cold War, why did we even bother to spend zillion of dollars in conventional forces? Any attack would have surely resulted in nuclear war, right?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 27, 2017, 01:32:11 am
Because the USSR wasn't the only opponent of the USA between 1945 and 1991, hence Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, 1st Gulf War...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 27, 2017, 12:11:24 pm
Sure, the USA. But let me recall that the Netherlands had 1.900 Tanks, of which exactly zero saw action. Surely an attack on the Netherlands would have resulted in all other nations throwing nukes around?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 27, 2017, 02:14:01 pm
Surely an attack on the Netherlands would have resulted in all other nations throwing nukes around?

Who cares anyway. It's only the fucking Dutch.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: 12apist on March 27, 2017, 02:36:43 pm
war = boom :(
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 27, 2017, 03:01:56 pm
why did we even bother to spend zillion of dollars in conventional forces? Any attack would have surely resulted in nuclear war, right?

For the largest part of the cold war, the US actually neglected their army and navy (save for the subs). At one points 75% of the entire defense budget was going to Strategic Bomber Command. The army was in a pretty shit state.
UNtil they realised nuclear holocaust wasn't THAT likely a scenario and they started building their forces again.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 27, 2017, 04:21:28 pm
That can't possibly be true. The US military spent long periods of the Cold War in active warzones like Vietnam, Korea, the Gulf, etc. Highly doubt military planners would neglect the army/navy with all that going on. Source?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on March 27, 2017, 07:31:46 pm
That can't possibly be true. The US military spent long periods of the Cold War in active warzones like Vietnam, Korea, the Gulf, etc. Highly doubt military planners would neglect the army/navy with all that going on. Source?
Vietnam was great
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on March 27, 2017, 11:00:52 pm
When Americans starts seeing Russia as a potential ally.. What a meme.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on March 27, 2017, 11:09:43 pm
When Americans starts seeing Russia as a potential ally.. What a meme.
Keep your friends close and enemies closer? idk why the two largest nuclear powers in the world having close cooperation is a bad thing.
Has international pressure to change Russia's ways changed anything? Doesn't seem like it
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 28, 2017, 09:20:09 am
Source?

Lieutenant-Colonel PhD. Boot, during a course on military systems, when the B-52 was discussed.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on March 28, 2017, 11:38:15 am
When Americans starts seeing Russia as a potential ally.. What a meme.

They aren't even Commies anymore, it's fine.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on March 28, 2017, 12:43:04 pm
What happened to you Canada :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z4Gg2vd7e0
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 28, 2017, 02:26:09 pm
FSE only recognise two genders, that's discriminatory against trans-people.

(https://i.gyazo.com/a198df41bfab4ac36a543f4f4d582c13.png)

Come on Olafson, it's 2017-there are over 71 genders and more are being discovered every day.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on March 28, 2017, 02:40:05 pm
FSE only recognise two genders, that's discriminatory against trans-people.

(https://i.gyazo.com/a198df41bfab4ac36a543f4f4d582c13.png)

Come on Olafson, it's 2017-there are over 71 genders and more are being discovered every day.

There are only 2 genders, get your liberal conspiracy filth out of here.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on March 28, 2017, 03:28:12 pm
When Americans starts seeing Russia as a potential ally.. What a meme.
Keep your friends close and enemies closer? idk why the two largest nuclear powers in the world having close cooperation is a bad thing.
Has international pressure to change Russia's ways changed anything? Doesn't seem like it
It's not about the fact that they're both large, powerful and have nuclear weapons. The issue with befriending Russia is their blatant corruption, silencing of the press, locking up political opponents/dissidents and disregard for modern borders. Pretending that it isn't happening does nothing to help the US's image as a supposed bastion of liberty and justice.
Obviously it extends to many other countries as well, including Saudi Arabia, China, Turkey and so on, but we all know that consumers love cheap shit and oil and the US wouldn't want to do anything to harm its relationship with its main suppliers.
Not that I believe any of that crap about the US anyway, but if they're going to spout that bullshit everywhere the least they could do is attempt to uphold it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 28, 2017, 04:13:56 pm
But why spending even a dime on conventional warfare if even throwing a rock at a West-German border guard would have started nuclear war and destroyed civilization as we know it? Sure, there is the occasional jab in Korea or Vietnam, but why were there so many troops stationed in Europe?

The only definitive answer is that we did and could not rely on nukes or M.A.D. to protect the balance of power. There is no point in doing a second strike if you know the first one will leave you completely destroyed anyway, other then vengance.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 28, 2017, 06:00:12 pm
They were there because the Soviets put vast numbers there too so the US and NATO reciprocated. And Korea and Vietnam were hardly 'occasional jabs'. The US fights a serious war roughly every 15 years.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 30, 2017, 06:29:14 pm
Russia-NATO talks about Ukraine conflict failed. A very positive thing is that NATO and Russia did exchange information about troop building and exercises on the borders, to prevent accidents.

This really shows: "we really don't like each other, but we also really don't want to fight each other."
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 31, 2017, 10:52:51 am
NATO always gives information on large exercises and invites Russian and Belarussian officials to observe them. It's such standard procedure.

Russia, at the other hand, likes to do 'snap exercises' which come as a surprise for troops and NATO officials alike. Just for fun. Just like they enjoy sending aircrafts into our airspace for shit and giggles.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on March 31, 2017, 12:32:21 pm
Russia-NATO talks about Ukraine conflict failed. A very positive thing is that NATO and Russia did exchange information about troop building and exercises on the borders, to prevent accidents.

This really shows: "we really don't like each other, but we also really don't want to fight each other."

Ah ha they still move troops into Ukraine without reprocussion and Trump seems to be fine with it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on March 31, 2017, 12:50:05 pm
Russia-NATO talks about Ukraine conflict failed. A very positive thing is that NATO and Russia did exchange information about troop building and exercises on the borders, to prevent accidents.

This really shows: "we really don't like each other, but we also really don't want to fight each other."

Ah ha they still move troops into Ukraine without reprocussion and Trump seems to be fine with it.
Who are you addressing when you say "they"
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on March 31, 2017, 01:16:56 pm
But now that both sides shared, at least it shows some measure of goodwill.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 31, 2017, 09:47:09 pm
But now that both sides shared, at least it shows some measure of goodwill.

Ukrainians are dying every day and you rejoice about Russian goodwill through an action considered standard procedure.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 01, 2017, 01:09:44 am
But now that both sides shared, at least it shows some measure of goodwill.

Ukrainians are dying every day and you rejoice about Russian goodwill through an action considered standard procedure.

War is war, get over it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on April 01, 2017, 02:28:55 am
Lol that war is still going on, rest of world is like, wuh  ???
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on April 01, 2017, 09:26:39 pm
It's a shame not so many people care about Ukraine anymore :/
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on April 02, 2017, 12:54:36 pm
Not much you can do about it
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on April 02, 2017, 06:32:55 pm
Lol that war is still going on, rest of world is like, wuh  ???
But wait Trump is still saying stupid things so lets pay attention to him instead of the conflicts around the world that are still ongoing!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on April 02, 2017, 06:46:59 pm
Reading through this is depressing  :'(
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 02, 2017, 08:52:29 pm
 :(
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 02, 2017, 10:07:01 pm
It's a shame not so many people care about Ukraine anymore :/

I don't care enough to go and die there, if that's what you mean. If Duuring wants an EU military so badly maybe he'd be willing to be sent to his death by Brussels Berlin.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on April 03, 2017, 12:10:28 am
Careful mate, that much edge and you might hurt someone.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 03, 2017, 01:07:11 am
Careful mate, that much edge and you might hurt someone.

Riddlez tone it down mate
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on April 03, 2017, 07:27:45 am
Yeah Riddlez, we aren't all sheeple here.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on April 03, 2017, 08:13:31 am
I is confucius now....

Side note though.... it's not like an EU military would be deployed to Ukraine.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on April 03, 2017, 08:19:52 am
I is confucius now....

Side note though.... it's not like an EU military would be deployed to Ukraine.
We can always hope (https://forums.taleworlds.com/Smileys/phpbb/contrib_fruity.gif)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 03, 2017, 06:27:42 pm
I'd rather be occupied by Russia over the EU, lol
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on April 03, 2017, 07:29:34 pm
You are already occupied by Murican forces  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 03, 2017, 07:58:07 pm
but... rule britannia!! taste british steel yankee scum!!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on April 03, 2017, 09:56:44 pm
Riddlez tone it down mate
I mean it can't exactly be a surprise that there are jobs out there that I'm very glad are done by other people (manual and menial labour, military stuff etc). I'm just highlighting your facetiousness with shitposts.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on April 04, 2017, 08:30:13 am
huzzah to shitposts.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Nero_ on April 04, 2017, 12:56:57 pm
So when are we going to talk about African politics
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on April 04, 2017, 01:03:25 pm
So when are we going to talk about African politics
I mean the Gambian National Assembly election is on Thursday you wanna talk about that Nero?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Nero_ on April 04, 2017, 01:44:23 pm
So when are we going to talk about African politics
I mean the Gambian National Assembly election is on Thursday you wanna talk about that Nero?
is gambia like a province in africa?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on April 04, 2017, 02:06:32 pm
is gambia like a province in africa?
Gambia belongs to Africa in the same way a fire belongs to ancient Rome.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Nero_ on April 04, 2017, 02:31:01 pm
is gambia like a province in africa?
Gambia belongs to Africa in the same way a fire belongs to ancient Rome.
good reference to my name mister
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 04, 2017, 03:42:58 pm
is gambia like a province in africa?
Gambia belongs to Africa in the same way a fire belongs to ancient Rome.
good reference to my name mister

Eh? I thought this was Milo Yiannopoulos' FSE account.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Nero_ on April 04, 2017, 05:16:57 pm
is gambia like a province in africa?
Gambia belongs to Africa in the same way a fire belongs to ancient Rome.
good reference to my name mister

Eh? I thought this was Milo Yiannopoulos' FSE account.
yes the statistics show
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 04, 2017, 10:04:55 pm
The suspense is killing me Nero

What do the statistics show?!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Nero_ on April 05, 2017, 03:14:18 pm
i was refering to milo always talking about statistics soz
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on April 05, 2017, 04:42:40 pm
i was refering to milo always talking about statistics soz
cuck
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 05, 2017, 05:36:50 pm
The suspense is killing me Nero

What do the statistics show?!
Classic, racist remark that has become typical of you Ricky .P - Making such sarcastic remarks in such a snide tone about Gambia is honestly disgusting. No wonder you're a UKIP supporter. Gambia is a sovereign nation that deserves equal respect like any other nation.

Absolutely correct, I sincerely apologise for anything I've said that may have been insensitive in regards to Gambia.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 05, 2017, 07:14:34 pm
The suspense is killing me Nero

What do the statistics show?!
Classic, racist remark that has become typical of you Ricky .P - Making such sarcastic remarks in such a snide tone about Gambia is honestly disgusting. No wonder you're a UKIP supporter. Gambia is a sovereign nation that deserves equal respect like any other nation.

Absolutely correct, I sincerely apologise for anything I've said that may have been insensitive in regards to Gambia.

It's 'The Gambia' not 'Gambia' you racist xenophobes.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on April 05, 2017, 07:16:30 pm
The suspense is killing me Nero

What do the statistics show?!
Classic, racist remark that has become typical of you Ricky .P - Making such sarcastic remarks in such a snide tone about Gambia is honestly disgusting. No wonder you're a UKIP supporter. Gambia is a sovereign nation that deserves equal respect like any other nation.

Absolutely correct, I sincerely apologise for anything I've said that may have been insensitive in regards to Gambia.

It's 'The Gambia' not 'Gambia' you racist xenophobes.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on April 07, 2017, 04:00:07 am
Well boys, it was a good run. Hopefully we'll kill all the men so they can't rape your women.

Godspeed to you all

edit: typo
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 07, 2017, 04:15:47 am
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/06/us-launches-missiles-into-syria-in-response-to-chemical-weapons-attack.html


oh no
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on April 07, 2017, 04:43:42 am
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/06/us-launches-missiles-into-syria-in-response-to-chemical-weapons-attack.html


oh no
I doubt much will come of it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 07, 2017, 04:45:34 am
Reports are that Russian troops are/were manning the anti-air batteries. It'll only escalate if any of them are caught in the fire.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on April 07, 2017, 03:07:40 pm
When they said that Trump never flip flops ;D
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on April 07, 2017, 04:14:02 pm
Good for Trump, he actually had the balls to do something about it and I support that sort of response.  Don't think it will escalate to a full out war, Syria knows it would obviously lose
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 07, 2017, 04:21:46 pm
The likelihood Assad used chemical weapons is incredibly small, but whatever. I'd wager the whole thing is a set-up, though between who and why I have no idea.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on April 07, 2017, 04:40:06 pm
The likelihood Assad used chemical weapons is incredibly small, but whatever. I'd wager the whole thing is a set-up, though between who and why I have no idea.
Nah, it's not in this day and age where it can be set up.  US has 24/7 reconnaissance and surveillance over syrias Air Force activity, its more geospatial intelligence, so it would be pretty easy to identify if it was a Syrian based helicopter dropping chemical gas bombs on civilians, or any other Syrian operated aircraft. 
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 07, 2017, 05:10:16 pm
The likelihood Assad used chemical weapons is incredibly small, but whatever. I'd wager the whole thing is a set-up, though between who and why I have no idea.
Nah, it's not in this day and age where it can be set up.  US has 24/7 reconnaissance and surveillance over syrias Air Force activity, its more geospatial intelligence, so it would be pretty easy to identify if it was a Syrian based helicopter dropping chemical gas bombs on civilians, or any other Syrian operated aircraft.

Oh please, as if intelligence is always that clear cut. Obama and Kerry were bragging 24 months ago that Assad had given up 100% of his chemical weapons (hint: he had almost none anyway). Makes no sense for Assad to use chemical weapons, allegedly he didn't have any to begin with, and the footage of the 'attack' is a bit suspicious (shows people handling victims without gloves for a start, which is the very first thing I was taught not to do when I did my CBRN training as a reservist). Anyway the US response makes no sense either-you don't blow up a area where you suspect chemical weapons are being stored that's just dumb.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: LiquidSkorpion on April 07, 2017, 05:52:26 pm
Good for Trump, he actually had the balls to do something about it and I support that sort of response.  Don't think it will escalate to a full out war, Syria knows it would obviously lose
It was a surprisingly fast response and sent a clear message that he handles things differently than Obama. I for one did not think the Trump administration would involve themselves, even after the chemical attack. However, I am rather pleased with it. It's about time someone stepped up and did something.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on April 07, 2017, 06:18:04 pm
Hang on so the fact that for the past few years he was opposing any sort of intervention in Syria (instead you should be focusing on Making America Great Again) and now overnight changes his view because of chemical weapons (gee when did we last hear about WMDs in the Middle East?) doesn't ring any alarm bells or maybe indicate that he's a populist who will say whatever he wants to garner attention and votes?



Regardless, whatever your views on who released chemical weapons and for what reason, a very clear distinction needs to be made between previous US intervention in Syria and this last attack.
The US has been arming rebels but has never directly attacked Syrian forces before, instead attacking IS. The US has now openly attacked Syria as a sovereign nation.
This is yet another case of the US not "technically" being at war, but instead attacking countries, free of any consequence to themselves. It's an imperialistic worldview, and is exactly what created IS in the first place; attacking a sovereign nation with no authority at all, striking because of some WMDs. We have no idea if that air base had anything to do with chemical weapons.

But no, all the other times the US has intervened have gone so well right? Like how you won the Vietnam War, the various Gulf Wars, the war in Afghanistan, the "War on Terror" and so on...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on April 07, 2017, 06:31:02 pm
The likelihood Assad used chemical weapons is incredibly small, but whatever. I'd wager the whole thing is a set-up, though between who and why I have no idea.
Nah, it's not in this day and age where it can be set up.  US has 24/7 reconnaissance and surveillance over syrias Air Force activity, its more geospatial intelligence, so it would be pretty easy to identify if it was a Syrian based helicopter dropping chemical gas bombs on civilians, or any other Syrian operated aircraft.

Oh please, as if intelligence is always that clear cut. Obama and Kerry were bragging 24 months ago that Assad had given up 100% of his chemical weapons (hint: he had almost none anyway). Makes no sense for Assad to use chemical weapons, allegedly he didn't have any to begin with, and the footage of the 'attack' is a bit suspicious (shows people handling victims without gloves for a start, which is the very first thing I was taught not to do when I did my CBRN training as a reservist). Anyway the US response makes no sense either-you don't blow up a area where you suspect chemical weapons are being stored that's just dumb.
Exactly. Why risk international attention when you're about to shutdown these CIA backed rebels once and for all?!

There's just something so fishy about a leader liked by his own people and a person who had a secular government which provided a haven for Christians, having a mysterious rebellion break out and and then having those rebels backed by U.S. only to find out they're ISIS. FeelsBadMan
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: LiquidSkorpion on April 07, 2017, 06:46:21 pm
Quote
Spoiler
Quote
The likelihood Assad used chemical weapons is incredibly small, but whatever. I'd wager the whole thing is a set-up, though between who and why I have no idea.
Nah, it's not in this day and age where it can be set up.  US has 24/7 reconnaissance and surveillance over syrias Air Force activity, its more geospatial intelligence, so it would be pretty easy to identify if it was a Syrian based helicopter dropping chemical gas bombs on civilians, or any other Syrian operated aircraft.

Oh please, as if intelligence is always that clear cut. Obama and Kerry were bragging 24 months ago that Assad had given up 100% of his chemical weapons (hint: he had almost none anyway). Makes no sense for Assad to use chemical weapons, allegedly he didn't have any to begin with, and the footage of the 'attack' is a bit suspicious (shows people handling victims without gloves for a start, which is the very first thing I was taught not to do when I did my CBRN training as a reservist). Anyway the US response makes no sense either-you don't blow up a area where you suspect chemical weapons are being stored that's just dumb.
[close]
Exactly. Why risk international attention when you're about to shutdown these CIA backed rebels once and for all?!

There's just something so fishy about a leader liked by his own people and a person who had a secular government which provided a haven for Christians, having a mysterious rebellion break out and and then having those rebels backed by U.S. only to find out they're ISIS. FeelsBadMan
It is strange how as soon as they are finally getting the rebels under control they bring international attention to themselves. Something definitely reeks here but I'm afraid we will never truly know what happened.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 07, 2017, 08:08:37 pm
Looking at the facts and how the civil war was going for Assad, I just cannot see him ordering a chemical weapon strike. Trump had literally just wrote him off saying he'll more or less leave Assad alone, then Assad orders a chemical strike knowing Trump won't be able to turn a blind eye?

It's not the first time the rebels have tried to pull a false flag, either.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on April 07, 2017, 08:50:37 pm
From the outside perspective, it all just doesn't make sense. The whole deep state theory gets deeper and deeper everyday. Someone, or something is pushing for this war to escalate and won't let it cool down.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on April 07, 2017, 09:52:12 pm
Looking at the facts and how the civil war was going for Assad, I just cannot see him ordering a chemical weapon strike. Trump had literally just wrote him off saying he'll more or less leave Assad alone, then Assad orders a chemical strike knowing Trump won't be able to turn a blind eye?

It's not the first time the rebels have tried to pull a false flag, either.
Did the rebels have the capability to do so? I mean considering they're flying jets (multiple times remember, considering the followup attacks on the hospitals/clinics) in what is largely Russian/Regime controlled territory. As of March 8th there had been no Coalition airstrikes in that region, only Russian, which leads me to believe that there is air superiority in favour of Russia/Assad there. Surely they'd just have been shot out of the sky?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on April 07, 2017, 10:00:42 pm
Should just wait for the bipartisan OPCW investigational findings, sorties have continuously been flying out from those Syrian air bases for a while now, I'm sure it was always a target
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on April 08, 2017, 12:24:55 am
Good for Trump, he actually had the balls to do something about it and I support that sort of response.  Don't think it will escalate to a full out war, Syria knows it would obviously lose
It was a surprisingly fast response and sent a clear message that he handles things differently than Obama. I for one did not think the Trump administration would involve themselves, even after the chemical attack. However, I am rather pleased with it. It's about time someone stepped up and did something.

I agree. I think it sends a clear message that we aren't going to let innocent people get attacked in anyway. Under Obama, nothing would have happened. I am glad Trump sends a message. Also, Hillary said we should have hit all the air fields; however, Trump's response was direct, limited, and targeted one.
yes... Trump is being a very good goy it seems
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2FvcXnq%2F83a004998c.jpg&hash=ff70be10edb35b5e674635c5207cfeeb7c0fa47c)

[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 08, 2017, 05:56:36 pm
Moving on from Trump...

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theglobeandmail.com%2Fnews%2Fnational%2Farticle31388144.ece%2FBINARY%2Fw620%2FDC20160629-01.JPG&hash=ac45146b354aad26a01cb3b6c61c7f2f8e22e001)

Here's a picture of Justin Trudeau's photographer taking pictures of Justin Trudeau sitting at his desk signing photographs of himself. They say an image tells a thousand words...

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 08, 2017, 08:24:43 pm
I'm supporting Erin O'Toole, but Bernier would be my second choice with O'Leary a distant third. Anyone but Michael Chong (barely a conservative) basically.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 09, 2017, 01:21:23 am
It seems we can blame the likes of Kushner and co. for Trump's recent actions (which have been praised by Israel, Saudi Arabia and about anyone else who wants to expand their territory).

Trump seems to have changed his mind on yet another issue he highlighted during his campaign - "draining the swamp".

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JDz352yOV8
[close]


He's removed Bannon from his security council. Not good news for anyone who isn't a fan of globalism.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on April 09, 2017, 10:20:11 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/3i8RjAj.png)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on April 09, 2017, 10:42:48 pm
Lol if Assad wants to retaliate he could target the thousand or so US troops already on Syria on the premise of 'incursion on sovereign territory', but he won't he will just write a strongly worded statement
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 09, 2017, 10:52:24 pm
It'd be proper banter if Assad chemical struck a US base
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 09, 2017, 11:30:56 pm
It'd be proper banter if Assad chemical struck a US base
That would be some awesome banter
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 10, 2017, 12:17:42 am
Getting back to French politics, I saw this being shared on Twitter and it looks interesting. Couple of spelling mistakes but it's written by a French journalist so that's to be expected: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8_-ZtIWsAAvZ8X.jpg

Not been following French politics (mainly because I'm British and we don't care about what happens in a country 30 miles away or so) but can anyone who has comment on it?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: ClaSh on April 10, 2017, 09:41:35 am
Getting back to French politics, I saw this being shared on Twitter and it looks interesting. Couple of spelling mistakes but it's written by a French journalist so that's to be expected: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8_-ZtIWsAAvZ8X.jpg

lol, twas funny
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on April 10, 2017, 10:02:25 am
It'd be proper banter if Assad chemical struck a US base
That would be some awesome banter
All aboard the banter nuke.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on April 11, 2017, 12:23:44 am
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/syria-trudeau-assad-attacks-1.4063464

I hope he falls down a well.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on April 11, 2017, 07:28:45 am
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/syria-trudeau-assad-attacks-1.4063464

I hope he falls down a well.
+1 to that.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 11, 2017, 05:17:11 pm
Trump seems to have made quite a bit of progress with China. I personally think speculation that his little firework show over Syria was a show for Xi Jinping is much more believable than a far-fetched ploy with Putin. But who knows anymore, amiright.

I wish
(https://i.gyazo.com/61d74c59c034223ea1900457e0016e24.png)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on April 11, 2017, 05:36:41 pm
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/syria-trudeau-assad-attacks-1.4063464

I hope he falls down a well.
+1 to that.

Nice hair though
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on April 11, 2017, 08:07:14 pm
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/syria-trudeau-assad-attacks-1.4063464

I hope he falls down a well.
+1 to that.

Nice hair though
StillNotReady
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on April 12, 2017, 10:40:33 am
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/syria-trudeau-assad-attacks-1.4063464

I hope he falls down a well.

You know that's literally what the coalition at first proclaimed? Literally almost all of Europe went into the operation with this in mind.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on April 12, 2017, 10:31:59 pm
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/syria-trudeau-assad-attacks-1.4063464

I hope he falls down a well.

You know that's literally what the coalition at first proclaimed? Literally almost all of Europe went into the operation with this in mind.
I mean it doesn't make it any better. Its retarded to think that Syria will become more stable if Assad capitulates.
nah, lets remove the only secular and semi stable government in the region
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on April 13, 2017, 01:28:16 am
Well lets put it this way, if you're going to openly attack a sovereign nation, you'd better have a damn good reason (like intending to depose the leader for using chemical weapons against civilians).
If you're not willing to do that, then why attack them at all? Just leave them alone to keep fucking themselves over and make America great again. I mean that's what Trump kept telling people that they should be doing, at least while it wasn't him calling the shots.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on April 13, 2017, 01:59:01 am
Well lets put it this way, if you're going to openly attack a sovereign nation, you'd better have a damn good reason (like intending to depose the leader for using chemical weapons against civilians).
If you're not willing to do that, then why attack them at all? Just leave them alone to keep fucking themselves over and make America great again. I mean that's what Trump kept telling people that they should be doing, at least while it wasn't him calling the shots.
True, those missiles cost over 100 million and where basically a waste of time.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on April 13, 2017, 04:58:49 am
Not really, I'd agree they were a waste if Assad uses chemical weapons again, but thus far he has not
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on April 13, 2017, 11:16:23 am
True, those missiles cost over 100 million and where basically a waste of time.

more like a million, but yeah.


I mean it doesn't make it any better. Its retarded to think that Syria will become more stable if Assad capitulates.

That's not what they're saying. They don't need Assad to capitulate. They want a regime change. A new leader, who will negotiate with..... well, the rest of the world.
Don't think that Russia is really negotiating with him. They're strongarming him. Assad doesn't talk to anyone and the reason the West wants him gone is not only because of what he did DURING the Syrian civil war, but also before it. He is a completely loose cannon.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on April 13, 2017, 08:42:09 pm
True, those missiles cost over 100 million and where basically a waste of time.

more like a million, but yeah.


I mean it doesn't make it any better. Its retarded to think that Syria will become more stable if Assad capitulates.

That's not what they're saying. They don't need Assad to capitulate. They want a regime change. A new leader, who will negotiate with..... well, the rest of the world.
Don't think that Russia is really negotiating with him. They're strongarming him. Assad doesn't talk to anyone and the reason the West wants him gone is not only because of what he did DURING the Syrian civil war, but also before it. He is a completely loose cannon.
Each missile costs over 1 million to make, and he fired 59. The number found on Wikipedia is 1.87m per unit.
Well the west can't force Assad to resign, Putin probably doesn't want him too. The rebels would likely be worst than Assad. So how do you remove Assad and install a "better" option?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on April 13, 2017, 09:01:20 pm
"Assad is a lose cannon"

OYYY VEYYY
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on April 13, 2017, 11:11:08 pm
"Assad is a lose cannon"

OYYY VEYYY
good goy
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 16, 2017, 07:05:07 pm
Lmao, Erdogan won his referendum.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on April 16, 2017, 07:31:16 pm
Lmao, Erdogan won his referendum.
Oh sweet Jesus.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on April 16, 2017, 09:59:59 pm
It currently stands at 51% in favour ater 98% of the votes counted. I can't say I am surprised, I kinda suspected this would happen. I had hoped the referendum would fail, but alas. What I do find interesting is how really close it is, 51% is a really low majority. I was expecting somewhere around 55-60% in favour, not 51. I guess Turkey is way more divided than we thought.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on April 16, 2017, 10:11:36 pm
It currently stands at 51% in favour ater 98% of the votes counted. I can't say I am surprised, I kinda suspected this would happen. I had hoped the referendum would fail, but alas. What I do find interesting is how really close it is, 51% is a really low majority. I was expecting somewhere around 55-60% in favour, not 51. I guess Turkey is way more divided than we thought.
Won't be divided any more. All hail Erdogan.
(https://i.imgur.com/fl7TSVA.png)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 16, 2017, 11:32:54 pm
Erdogan is a dangerous fool, but I admire some things about him.

For starters, I love how he's chosen political correctness as his weapon to use against Europe and uses it in such a mocking and blatant manner.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 17, 2017, 12:13:24 am
Jesus, the majority of Turks living in Europe voted 'Yes'. Good luck with that by the way, I'm sure it isn't a problem or anything...

I expect Brussels will do as little as possible, maybe send a verbal warning or a few negative tweets. Merkel will say nothing of course because she needs the Turkish vote in October & she doesn't have the guts to police the Mediterranean, so has to rely on Erdogan to do it for her in return for a hefty bribe. Between Putin, Trump and Erdogan I don't know who's done more to make the EU look weaker.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on April 17, 2017, 10:59:39 am
There is a reason the U.S. has done nothing to Turkey, too...

I thought the U.S. hated dictators? Sure.... as long as they're not an ally, play a vital part in missile defense AND happen to be in control of one of the two sea routes to Russia... How's that for a strategic ally?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 17, 2017, 12:01:50 pm
Damn, the French elections have actually gotten very interesting due to Melenchon. There's four candidates (Le Pen, Fillon, Macron, Melenchon) all within 3-5% of each other in the polls and only two go through. Melenchon has the momentum and it's very possible he could knock Macron off the No.2 spot and go into the final round against Le Pen, in which case the choice will be between two strongly eurosceptic candidates. Or he could knock Le Pen into third place and go up against Macron, in which case he'd stand a much better chance of winning than she would.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on April 18, 2017, 08:14:29 pm
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/gBL7EBp.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on April 18, 2017, 09:25:53 pm
Jesus, the majority of Turks living in Europe and which voted in the referendum voted 'Yes'

Fixed that for you. Quite a number of people can vote but don't really care about Turkish politics one way or the other.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 19, 2017, 09:00:13 pm
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/e0f152787659b7d117b34e959aa6e87f.png)
[close]

classic BBC
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on April 19, 2017, 11:11:35 pm
Well technically they were random white people, he didn't have his eyes set on 'Joe Thomas'
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 20, 2017, 12:26:42 am
The headline is purposely misleading
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 23, 2017, 07:10:23 pm
Well yeah to garner more clicks.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 23, 2017, 08:16:05 pm
Looks like they're saying it'll be Macron-Le Pen if the projections hold up, though given polling stations literally just closed I'm assuming it's more of an exit poll so treat with caution.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on April 23, 2017, 10:32:00 pm
It's been predicted for weeks that it would eventually be Macron vs. Le Pen. The biggest surprise is to see that Melenchon ended up quite a bit lower than most expected. He's just below Fillon if the current exit polls are anything to go by. I was expecting him to at least overtake Fillon and maybe get very close to both Macron and Le Pen.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 23, 2017, 11:02:02 pm
Macron Président!! Macron Président!! Macron Président!!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 23, 2017, 11:48:24 pm
I'm sure everyone is truly shocked that you, Furrnox, of all people support the globalist money whore who apologised for colonisation...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on April 24, 2017, 06:34:47 pm
I'm sure everyone is truly shocked that you, Furrnox, of all people support the globalist money whore who apologised for colonisation...
I'm shook right now.

however, I think this is going to be a really hard victory for Le Pen because everyone else is supporting the globalist and she only advanced due to there being so many other choices in the first round. Hopefully nationalism and the love for rational thinking will triumph but if it doesn't, the EU will continue to take sovereignty away from countries and populism will take a serious blow.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 25, 2017, 06:11:39 am
Nationalism and rational thinking don't really mix bud.  ;)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 25, 2017, 06:40:49 am
I'm sure everyone is truly shocked that you, Furrnox, of all people support the globalist money whore who apologised for colonisation...
I'm shook right now.

however, I think this is going to be a really hard victory for Le Pen because everyone else is supporting the globalist and she only advanced due to there being so many other choices in the first round. Hopefully nationalism and the love for rational thinking will triumph but if it doesn't, the EU will continue to take sovereignty away from countries and populism will take a serious blow.
You are aware that globalism and the EU are one of the main reasons peace lasted for so long on our planet?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on April 25, 2017, 07:23:47 am

I'm sure everyone is truly shocked that you, Furrnox, of all people support the globalist money whore who apologised for colonisation...
I'm shook right now.

however, I think this is going to be a really hard victory for Le Pen because everyone else is supporting the globalist and she only advanced due to there being so many other choices in the first round. Hopefully nationalism and the love for rational thinking will triumph but if it doesn't, the EU will continue to take sovereignty away from countries and populism will take a serious blow.
You are aware that globalism and the EU are one of the main reasons peace lasted for so long on our planet?

(https://i.imgur.com/mXyupD1.gif)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 25, 2017, 11:08:38 am
I'm sure everyone is truly shocked that you, Furrnox, of all people support the globalist money whore who apologised for colonisation...
I'm shook right now.

however, I think this is going to be a really hard victory for Le Pen because everyone else is supporting the globalist and she only advanced due to there being so many other choices in the first round. Hopefully nationalism and the love for rational thinking will triumph but if it doesn't, the EU will continue to take sovereignty away from countries and populism will take a serious blow.
You are aware that globalism and the EU are one of the main reasons peace lasted for so long on our planet?

Yeah, that or nuclear weapons.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on April 25, 2017, 11:23:21 am
I'm sure everyone is truly shocked that you, Furrnox, of all people support the globalist money whore who apologised for colonisation...
I'm shook right now.

however, I think this is going to be a really hard victory for Le Pen because everyone else is supporting the globalist and she only advanced due to there being so many other choices in the first round. Hopefully nationalism and the love for rational thinking will triumph but if it doesn't, the EU will continue to take sovereignty away from countries and populism will take a serious blow.
You are aware that globalism and the EU are one of the main reasons peace lasted for so long on our planet?

Yeah, that or nuclear weapons.
Mutually Assured Destruction is great.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 25, 2017, 02:48:40 pm
Darn that gif was a great argument, im really convinced now.

Wars are mostly fought for economical reasons. Due to globalism war hurts economy more then it gives you anything. If im wrong pls tell me why and dont answer in shitty futurama gifs.

On another note: Anyone here watch Designated Survivor on Netflix? The PC narrative is horrible and really hurts a good show.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on April 25, 2017, 03:56:58 pm
Darn that gif was a great argument, im really convinced now.

Wars are mostly fought for economical reasons. Due to globalism war hurts economy more then it gives you anything. If im wrong pls tell me why and dont answer in shitty futurama gifs.

On another note: Anyone here watch Designated Survivor on Netflix? The PC narrative is horrible and really hurts a good show.

The League of Nations was the first attempt and failed hard. The EU, the UN, and all the other pseudo one world government bullshit have been hilariously powerless to prevent conflicts. They failed with Korea. They failed with Vietnam. They failed to calm down the cold war at all. They failed Poland and much of Eastern Europe who they left to be annexed and brutally opressed for decades. They failed in Yugoslavia. They failed in Darfur. They failed in Rwanda. They failed in Iraq (repeatedly) and Kuwait. They failed in Afghanistan. Never in the history of mankind have institutions with such a  comprehensive track record of failure accumulated as much power and taxpayer money as the globalist ones today.

There are two and only two reasons we haven't seen World War III:

1) Mutuallly Assured Destruction

and

2) Bypassing all the globalist institutions and their convoluted BS, the direct Washington-Moscow Hotline

Also your premise that war is financially motivated is fundamentally flawed. Financial gain can be a motive, but war is, at its core, about control. Hitler called it Lebensraum (and enforced racial "purity"). The USSR wanted to "export" their revolution. The US and USSR both viewed enforcing their will in Korea and Vietnam as vital national interests. Even Saddam, who was seen as invading Kuwait for thwir oil fields, actually seemed more interested in enforcing perceived ancestral claims on the land.  Also just look at how much the US has spent on the "war on terror".

Declaring war in this time period is declaring that in spite of the UN et. al. you believe you have suffficient power to bypass their efforts via force of arms. This is especially true for major powers who know they risk something far more important than money if they escalate a conflict too far; their very existence. This is also why we have seen so many proxy wars as they have been the only means of acquiring "allies" (protectorates in reality) in key areas to project power just like a global game of chess.

WWIII hasnt been prevented by the EU, the UN, or any such body. Its been prevented because no one has attained the confidence that they can escalate a conflict anywhere near that extent without being wiped off the face of the planet.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 25, 2017, 04:57:29 pm
And I think the existence of a hegemon that has shown willingness to intervene in regional wars is a bit of a deterrent
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on April 25, 2017, 05:31:33 pm
What sucks is that the world population is growing at an extreme rate and we won't have the resources to support this many people. It's time for a good war honestly so we can remedy this problem /s

Nationalism and rational thinking don't really mix bud.  ;)
Oil (Islam) and Water (Secularism/Christians) cannot mix no matter how much you stir the mixture. You fools keep trying to coexist but how can you coexist with something that shares little to no common values and morals.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on April 25, 2017, 06:30:53 pm
Nationalism and rational thinking don't really mix bud.  ;)
putting your country first and wanting to improve it is now irrational
who else but...
(https://i.redd.it/uoo7eb3rhvgy.png)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 25, 2017, 08:48:13 pm
Nationalism and rational thinking don't really mix bud.  ;)
putting your country first and wanting to improve it is now irrational
who else but...
(https://i.redd.it/uoo7eb3rhvgy.png)
[close]
Hell hath no fury like a Swede lusting for brown cock
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on April 25, 2017, 10:35:19 pm
Immense national pride within a nation, with two nationalistic self/nation serving leaders managed to cause both world wars that crippled the country and Europe each time. But nationalism is the best ofc.

I think Nationalism is good, but if you only look to serve your nation then that's when I start to worry. The only conflicts that have occurred in Europe since WW2 have been internal struggles mostly dealing with civil unrest post-communism. If you look at how often nations fought prior to the world wars you notice its a lot more. And it was usually because of a leader looking into their countries "national interst."
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 25, 2017, 11:35:24 pm
What sucks is that the world population is growing at an extreme rate and we won't have the resources to support this many people. It's time for a good war honestly so we can remedy this problem /s

When you claim to be a rational thinker and say the solution to the worlds problems is a "good war".
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on April 26, 2017, 12:30:34 am
Anyone who believes in the mighty protective power of MAD just hasn't watched enough "Yes Minister".

But seriously though, nuclear weapons are only a last resort, and as such are something we would only ever use if the USSR Russia were to nuke/invade us personally. What if they fly planes into our airspace? No nukes. What if they annex part of Ukraine? No nukes. What if they annex all of Eastern Europe? Still no nukes. What if they take over the entire planet except for nations with nuclear weapons? No thermonuclear annihilation.
And anyway it's not like they'll stop terrorist attacks or guerrilla style attacks a la Crimea. They're essentially only for use against other nuclear attacks, ergo, they're completely pointless.
Just scrap them (pretend we still have some if you must?). They're a huge waste of money.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on April 26, 2017, 03:33:57 am
What sucks is that the world population is growing at an extreme rate and we won't have the resources to support this many people. It's time for a good war honestly so we can remedy this problem /s

When you claim to be a rational thinker and say the solution to the worlds problems is a "good war".
when you don't even acknowledge the plebbit tier "/s"
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 26, 2017, 10:33:19 am
Anyone who believes in the mighty protective power of MAD just hasn't watched enough "Yes Minister".

But seriously though, nuclear weapons are only a last resort, and as such are something we would only ever use if the USSR Russia were to nuke/invade us personally. What if they fly planes into our airspace? No nukes. What if they annex part of Ukraine? No nukes. What if they annex all of Eastern Europe? Still no nukes. What if they take over the entire planet except for nations with nuclear weapons? No thermonuclear annihilation.
And anyway it's not like they'll stop terrorist attacks or guerrilla style attacks a la Crimea. They're essentially only for use against other nuclear attacks, ergo, they're completely pointless.
Just scrap them (pretend we still have some if you must?). They're a huge waste of money.

If it wasn't for nuclear weapons there would have been a third world war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Anyway they're here to stay, more countries are getting them and you can't realistically expect Kim Jong-Un, Putin or the Iranians to give up theirs.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 27, 2017, 02:45:12 am
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/04/25/schumer-its-not-a-negotiation-no-wall/

Spoiler
(https://media.8ch.net/file_store/0e89093ab333d775273444f67673c2c70d106322cb156912e30e264b4b42bd2e.png)
[close]

J U S T
U
S
T

Trump's started to do some disastrous things ever since he started taking presidential counsel off of his daughter.

It's funny, a few weeks ago I was stumped as to why Ben Shapiro was flaming Ivanka's role in the White House so much on FB... he was right lol
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on April 27, 2017, 12:18:56 pm
What sucks is that the world population is growing at an extreme rate and we won't have the resources to support this many people. It's time for a good war honestly so we can remedy this problem /s

Nationalism and rational thinking don't really mix bud.  ;)
Oil (Islam) and Water (Secularism/Christians) cannot mix no matter how much you stir the mixture. You fools keep trying to coexist but how can you coexist with something that shares little to no common values and morals.

Humans are not bacteria that will continue to grow exponentially. We are not going to continue duplicating ourselfs and then suddenly burst into flames because we are producing to much heat. The population can only grow as much as there are resources to support the population. So yeah... If there are only enough resources to support 7 billion people, then there wont be 8 billion people because the 1 billion extra is just going to die off. Besides that, almost all countries are developing into industrialized countries (slower or faster, but they are) and as such the population is going to stabilize at some point. It is only a matter of time until the current trend in industrialized countries (Low birth rate) kicks over to currently non industrialized countries.

The current population growth is not going to continue forever, it is going to stop and the worlds population will stabilize at some point.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 27, 2017, 09:23:44 pm
Yeah, reassuring foreign leaders that a multinational important trade deal isn't going to be arbitrarily blown up immediately is such an inconsistent move from his campaign goals. Lol.
The US dept of commerce recently informed the Canadian government that a duty would be applied on Canadian lumber exports ( I think), so I don't think he's thrown protectionism out of the window.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on April 27, 2017, 09:30:19 pm
Yeah, reassuring foreign leaders that a multinational important trade deal isn't going to be arbitrarily blown up immediately is such an inconsistent move from his campaign goals. Lol.
The US dept of commerce recently informed the Canadian government that a duty would be applied on Canadian lumber exports ( I think), so I don't think he's thrown protectionism out of the window.
lol, like the U.S hasn't done enough to the lumber industry.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 27, 2017, 11:17:00 pm
Yeah, reassuring foreign leaders that a multinational important trade deal isn't going to be arbitrarily blown up immediately is such an inconsistent move from his campaign goals. Lol.
The US dept of commerce recently informed the Canadian government that a duty would be applied on Canadian lumber exports ( I think), so I don't think he's thrown protectionism out of the window.
lol, like the U.S hasn't done enough to the lumber industry.
The only thing I was really worried about with Trump was his protectionism. Our economy has suffered enough
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 28, 2017, 05:11:20 am
Leaving an agreement like NAFTA would require more than one executive order, and probably would have to go through congress, too. As the British people know, triggering Article 50 does not mean you've left, it means you intend to leave, and i'll bet my house the executive order was the same intention - notifying of intent and beginning the process. Or, maybe, just even beginning renegotiation.

Let's talk about that picture:

No wall: Erecting a border wall is not an easy process, but something he said he'd do and is doing is increasing CDP funding : https://gyazo.com/86ee1e11ba3e2302f0d2977087aed951 (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/photo-essays/2017-04-26/guns-drones-and-night-vision-where-trump-s-border-patrol-goes-shopping)

No lock her up: I'm glad no one actually took that seriously. I'm glad he's not doing that, only an Obama DOJ would target political adversaries for political gain, and as Sessions has said multiple times he's not down for that.

Muslim ban: The myth that it's a "Muslim" ban has already been debunked, but calling it shitty just seems desperate. Why is it shitty - the fact that the 9th circuit struck it down, or the fact that it's only 6 countries? Still, it'll face the supreme court soon enough.

Israel is our greatest ally: Well, no, the UK or Canada is, and it's been a long standing tradition of the US to support Israel, but if you're specifically talking about greatest ally in the Middle East, wouldn't most Trump supporters rather see the Israelis over the Saudis in US foreign policy?

No mass deportations: Glad to see you're always high, or just not in touch with anyone in the US south - deportations on masse have for sure been occuring :
http://www.businessinsider.com/mexico-preparations-for-mass-deportations-by-donald-trump-2017-2

Obamacare 2.0: Well, even though it failed, it clearly differed from Obamacare on a lot of important concepts: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/06/us/politics/republican-obamacare-replacement.html?_r=1

Cabinet full of billionares and globalists: Billionares for sure, but as much as I can recall the only quasi-globalists on the team are Ivanka and Jared, and they only have advisory roles in cabinet, so.. Also important to note that there isn't anything wrong with billionares as cabinet members, is there? Many like Tillerson have overseas connections and contacts that others simply don't have.

Most hated president: Giving him this title like 110 days in? Give me a fucking break lol, that's grasping at straws. If his numbers rest at the dislike levels they sit at now at the end of term i'll eat my hat.

No reversal of the demographic shift: Like this would ever happen overnight. This point is insane - how can you possibly expect to change one of the foundations of society in less than half a year? Are you high?

Honestly, this just seems like you didn't go in depth on many of these issues.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 28, 2017, 05:22:16 am
Might want to extend your sources to be broader than WSJ, NYT and /pol/ bait
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on April 28, 2017, 06:08:45 am
Someone want to write my political science final exam for me?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 28, 2017, 07:30:50 am
Might want to extend your sources to be broader than WSJ, NYT and /pol/ bait
Yes
Someone want to write my political science final exam for me?
I gotchu. Got 40.5/50 on my political theory exam
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on April 28, 2017, 06:06:05 pm
NAFTA is a waste, we don't need Canada or Mexico cuz we are America  8)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 28, 2017, 09:02:58 pm
NAFTA is a waste, we don't need Canada or Mexico cuz we are America  8)
no plz
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on April 28, 2017, 09:28:23 pm
NAFTA is a waste, we don't need Canada or Mexico cuz we are America  8)
Yea the U.S has never needed Canada or Mexico.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/uc5wMTW.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on April 28, 2017, 10:27:13 pm
Never forget the timeless epic Saving Private Ramirez.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on April 28, 2017, 10:49:17 pm
The Longest Día
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 29, 2017, 02:04:29 am
That wasn't Mexico wtf
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on April 29, 2017, 06:15:35 am
NAFTA is a waste, we don't need Canada or Mexico cuz we are America  8)
Yea the U.S has never needed Canada or Mexico.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/uc5wMTW.jpg)
[close]
Mexico better than Canada and Great Britain confirmed?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on April 29, 2017, 06:55:11 am
Having to gang up to defeat one country hahaha, do the Allies have no shame?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on April 30, 2017, 12:46:06 am
No mass deportations: Glad to see you're always high, or just not in touch with anyone in the US south - deportations on masse have for sure been occuring :
http://www.businessinsider.com/mexico-preparations-for-mass-deportations-by-donald-trump-2017-2
En masse means happening all at once.
As for mass deportations, well...
>135 deportees
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 30, 2017, 02:42:42 am
No mass deportations: Glad to see you're always high, or just not in touch with anyone in the US south - deportations on masse have for sure been occuring :
http://www.businessinsider.com/mexico-preparations-for-mass-deportations-by-donald-trump-2017-2
En masse means happening all at once.
As for mass deportations, well...
>135 deportees
For some reason, I was thinking on mass, but wanted to say en masse, and typed the middle. Canadian education system!
But you're right, my terminology was wrong
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on April 30, 2017, 04:48:57 am
Trump hasn't put the Mexicans and concentration camps yet, declared Women 2nd class citizens, and formed the 4th Reich yet.

I'm disappointed I voted for him.

Perhaps trusting Huff post/NYT about his policy during the campaign was a bad move.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on May 02, 2017, 12:46:11 pm
France mimicking the US
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-39779548/watch-le-pen-plagiarises-fillon-speech
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on May 02, 2017, 05:16:33 pm
France mimicking the US
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-39779548/watch-le-pen-plagiarises-fillon-speech

who doesn't want to mimic the best country on earth 8)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on May 02, 2017, 05:32:35 pm
Travel warning issued against all of Europe, all Europeans are terrorists confirmed  8)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: LiquidSkorpion on May 02, 2017, 05:35:53 pm
Does that travel warning apply to every country in Europe?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on May 02, 2017, 05:58:24 pm
Does that travel warning apply to every country in Europe?
https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings/Europe.html
Pretty much yea, although cites specific countries with recent terrorist attacks like U.K. And France
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: LiquidSkorpion on May 02, 2017, 06:01:44 pm
"Expires September 1st" Lol. Wow
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on May 02, 2017, 06:24:45 pm
Its silly anyway. It's not like Europe is in a Civil War or something.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on May 02, 2017, 08:11:23 pm
Its silly anyway. It's not like Europe is in a Civil War or something.

Spoiler

soon
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 02, 2017, 08:53:24 pm
Travel warning issued against all of Europe, all Europeans are terrorists confirmed  8)

Not even mad, ISIS are humiliating us at this point:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/28/islamic-state-fighters-infiltrate-europe-posing-injured-libyan-soldiers
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 02, 2017, 08:55:33 pm
So ridiculous that Trump is placing checks on EU travellers, all we've done is let several million unchecked people from a warzone into our countries jeez what a tyrant.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 02, 2017, 09:05:29 pm
Er - a travel warning for all of the EU? Might as well post a travel warning to Canada too
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 02, 2017, 09:22:53 pm
It's all right lads. They're women and kids, they can't harm us. Just look at those 14 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""teenagers"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" brought into London last year  :)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 02, 2017, 09:57:40 pm
But hey, if it makes muh voter base feel safe.

Well durr, people vote with their hearts, which is why we have crazy self-destructive liberal governments on one hand and someone like Trump on the other.

Everything will be fine as long as Trump nukes North Korea, forget the wall. Wasn't a big deal anyway.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on May 03, 2017, 02:04:08 am
Hang on though, a travel warning is very different. Surely that means that the US is saying "be careful travelling to these countries" rather than doing anything to limit immigration.
That's standard following terrorist attacks etc, although applying it to the entirety of Europe is a bit pointless; IS aren't about to bomb Portugal.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on May 03, 2017, 02:47:52 am
That's standard following terrorist attacks etc, although applying it to the entirety of Europe is a bit pointless; IS aren't about to bomb Portugal.

Why wouldn't they?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 03, 2017, 03:07:06 am
That's standard following terrorist attacks etc, although applying it to the entirety of Europe is a bit pointless; IS aren't about to bomb Portugal.

Why wouldn't they?
Because its discount Spain.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on May 03, 2017, 04:21:47 am
Hang on though, a travel warning is very different. Surely that means that the US is saying "be careful travelling to these countries" rather than doing anything to limit immigration.
That's standard following terrorist attacks etc, although applying it to the entirety of Europe is a bit pointless; IS aren't about to bomb Portugal.
No putting a travel alert administered by the state dept is not normal for Europe, this is a first. And I know schools and universities do take it seriously, regarding summer programs and trips to Europe I'm sure there will be a decline

A travel warning is saying: we highly discourage going to those countries, imminent danger (like Afghanistan or Sudan lol)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on May 03, 2017, 04:25:59 am
Yeah I read through the list. Afghanistan, Sudan, Eritrea...

Isreal and Turkey also make sense, kind of. Then comes Europe :P All of it...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 03, 2017, 07:41:05 am
Yeah I don't get this lol
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 03, 2017, 07:32:21 pm
So ridiculous that Trump is placing checks on EU travellers, all we've done is let several million unchecked people from a warzone into our countries jeez what a tyrant.

 How often does one have to point out that nearly all terrorist attacks weren't performed by refugees?


On a completely different note: the Bundeswehr is having its own moment of shame.... dayum...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 03, 2017, 07:36:53 pm
Yeah I read through the list. Afghanistan, Sudan, Eritrea...

Isreal and Turkey also make sense, kind of. Then comes Europe :P All of it...

Israel and Turkey are on almost all warning lists in Western countries... They're both on the Red-flag list for the DoD for most countries...

Sure, the largest parts of Israel and Turkey as as safe as any large city (talking world cities like Istanbul or Jerusalem) but the simple fact an armed conflict is taking place near or on its borders or has taken place in very recent times make it an orange or a red flag.

Or any country with an unstable or dictatorial government. All the countries on the lists make perfect sense... except all countries in Europe. By all accounts, the European continent hasn't ever been as safe as it is at the moment.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 03, 2017, 08:34:54 pm
How often does one have to point out that nearly all terrorist attacks weren't performed by refugees?

How often do the NA & European intelligence agencies have to point out that there are going to be more attacks via the refugee flow? Inserting terrorists into the West is atop of ISIS' 2017 agenda.
The CIA said last year that the terrorist group’s official strategy is to hide its operatives among refugees entering Europe and the United States via human flows out of the Middle East and North Africa.

They've already had plenty of success:

- Two of the airport and Metro attacks in Brussels last year had fought in Syria and gained entry back into Belgium.

- The German press has reported refugee knife and ax attacks on innocents.
 - Nov. 13, 2015, massacre in Paris — two posed as refugees from Syria — and the Christmastime truck carnage in Berlin.

- Shortly before he left his post as NATO commander, Air Force Gen. Philip Breedlove said in March that the Islamic State had injected 1,500 fighters into Europe. (That year, a Syrian Islamic State operative told Britain’s Daily Express that more than 4,000 fighters had already been smuggled into Europe.)

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/29/isis-finds-success-infiltrating-terrorists-into-re/

By all accounts, the European continent hasn't ever been as safe as it is at the moment.

Yes, Riddlez, your precious EU clearly has an airtight grip on ISIS and vetting the refugees.

Funny how a group of mass murders in the Middle East have identified the weaknesses of your empathy politics, yet you're still oblivious. Really though, what can we except from such an out of touch idealist like yourself.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on May 03, 2017, 09:14:59 pm
Oh please, the murder rate in the US is 4.3 times higher than the murder rate in Germany or 5.57 times higher than the murder rate in the Netherlands... 

Is the US save? Yes! Is the EU save? Yes!
And it is true, it is probably the safest time on the European continent since like ever.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 03, 2017, 09:17:24 pm
Terror attacks are nothing new in Europe, it is, admittedly, in a form that is rather new, but then again, one cannot expect something like this to stay the same.

ANd Europe doesn't have to have an airtight grip on ISIS to be safe, the terror attacks are sporadic, most of them are not even linked to ISIS (except people claiming they do it in name of, which is bad in and on intself, but really there is no securing against lone wolfs like that - they would've found another excuse to kill people, this time it was ISIS). Yes what Breedlove said is very worrying indeed, but the fact the EU has identified 1500 ISIS fighters says something about the security services in Europe, be it individually. And really, going off the claims of a single 'ISIS operative' to take a wild guess at how many ISIS fighters are in Europe is letting yourself fall prey to fear, which is exactly what the goal of terrorists is.

They will not by a long shot even come remotely close to destabalising Europe by the rate at which they're going through us, not even remotely close.
Not to downplay the impact terrorist attacks have on individual ives - they're horrible and ruin families - they are insignificant losses when compared to the death toll caused by smoking, car accidents or people falling down stairs.

If I were to claim car accidents will bring down the stability of Europe and make a serious argument about it, I'd be put in a mental hospital. But somehow, we think terrorists will conquer the lands of Europe and have of force-choked on the qu'ran in a matter of years...


And while ISIS fighters posed a refugees on 13/11, they were still French. THe Brussels attacks were performed by Belgiums... Nice attacks were performed by a Tunesian who had been living in France since 2005 (6 years before the Syrian civil war started)
Granted the German 2016 attacks were performed by someone who entered as a refugee, but that is it for the larger terror attacks. The rest were so small scaled and only perpetrated in name of ISIS rather than the terrorists themselves being likely to actually have been part of ISIS that I still cannot see the point of how enormous a threat ISIS is to the EU.

Yes, they must be fought. Yes, major resources should be made available to counter-terrorism. But no, it is not a significant stability threat to European countries.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on May 03, 2017, 09:23:44 pm
The IRA was more of threat than ISIS ever was/will be.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 03, 2017, 09:26:06 pm
The IRA was more of threat than ISIS ever was/will be.
When you look in mirrors do you even see yourself?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on May 03, 2017, 09:27:54 pm
The IRA was more of threat than ISIS ever was/will be.
Err wouldn't go to that extent...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on May 03, 2017, 09:33:24 pm
I am talking about ISIS operations in the EU. Ofc they are a large threat in the middle east and if they manage to get an actual stable foothold there, that would be a major problem, but as it stands right now with occasional sporadic terrorist attacks, they pose no huge threat.

I mean sure, I see your point and my comparison is not the best... All I am saying is that the IRA did this shit for 30 years.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: LiquidSkorpion on May 03, 2017, 09:40:45 pm
IRA has killed roughly 3700 people in its 30 years of existence. ISIS has killed roughly 400 in Europe in 3 years.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on May 03, 2017, 09:43:50 pm
So multiply that by ten and you get roughly the same count...

Edit:

Also, I count "just" 278 people killed by ISIS since 2013.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: LiquidSkorpion on May 03, 2017, 09:48:25 pm
Yeah. Wasnt trying to discredit it.

Figures differ on the source, hence the roughly. Also, im pretty sure the 400 is with Turkey as well, otherwise it is moreso 300ish.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 03, 2017, 10:03:37 pm
Oh please, the murder rate in the US is 4.3 times higher than the murder rate in Germany or 5.57 times higher than the murder rate in the Netherlands... 

Is the US save, yes! Is the EU save, yes!
And it is true, it is probably the safest time on the European continent since like ever.

I fear you've fallen victim to the media or the words of Barrack Obama. Between January 2009 and December 2015 the European Union suffered 303 deaths from mass public shootings, while the US had 199. These mass shootings are defined as an attacked in a public place where four or more people are killed.

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcrimeresearch.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F06%2FAnnual-Death-Rate-from-MPS-Europe-and-US-2009-to-2015.jpg&hash=4c816cfd4eb8e3e81482bd5644733c0618d78c93)

http://crimeresearch.org/2016/01/compared-to-europe-the-us-falls-in-rank-for-fatalities-and-frequency-of-mass-public-shootings-now-ranks-11th-in-fatalities-and-12th-in-frequency/

Schildkraut and Elsass shared the summary information from their database with PolitiFact. Here’s their table:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/sTbiw2S8fHl89qyY6AXbohcKkvXrCTKg33VwEQ-n-JieBT9aW1mr8d8s65TxJJj-nOCRfN6e1L_wJ8qC8efdaa530z35xQ_cwcGE2g-n98rRB7SprMFZrnpjhvEUgxNKyK_h_OU)

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/

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As you can see, the EU isn't exactly as free from political extremists and school shooters (the American favourites) as you'd like to believe. I wouldn't start drawing comparisons, personally.

And while ISIS fighters posed a refugees on 13/11, they were still French. THe Brussels attacks were performed by Belgiums... Nice attacks were performed by a Tunesian who had been living in France since 2005 (6 years before the Syrian civil war started)
Granted the German 2016 attacks were performed by someone who entered as a refugee, but that is it for the larger terror attacks. The rest were so small scaled and only perpetrated in name of ISIS rather than the terrorists themselves being likely to actually have been part of ISIS that I still cannot see the point of how enormous a threat ISIS is to the EU.

ISIS isn't an ideology, however the home grown terrorists kill in the same name as them. Killing in the name of "ISIS" isn't a far stretch different from killing in the name of Islam itself. As Steven Chilton pointed out before, ISIS is very much driven by their conservative and traditional interpretation of Islam. I'm not claiming that ISIS are going to bring the EU to heel, but it stands to reason than the refugees are much more susceptible to radicalization after they are abandoned by EU governments after being let through the front door, and as a result, more likely to commit further mass
murders (which you incorrectly stated they haven't done already). As for the French ( ;D ) terrorists:

Cut the virtue signalling bullshit Riddlez
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/DF4E/production/_89466175_paris_attack_teams_624_27_04_16.jpg)
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The IRA was more of threat than ISIS ever was/will be.

The difference being the IRA had a specific goal and weren't killing strictly in the name of religion. Moreso, the IRA were made up of Irish born fighters and were not imported to Europe by silly idealistic leftists like yourself.

Jesus Christ Olafson, you fucking ooze white guilt. That's the fine German curriculum for you (I have a friend in Germany who attends public high school, he goes into great detail about it. Funny stuff).
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 03, 2017, 10:38:37 pm
I wonder, how many of those terror attacks were committed be people who had recently been radicalized by or in the 6 countries listed? Which may not have been in the travel ban, ofc, but still shows those countries pose security threats
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on May 04, 2017, 01:47:35 am
Eh, but I was not talking about mass shootings. I was talking about the murder rate in general.

Btw. from your own link:
Quote
given the EU’s larger population, the per million people fatality rate for the US and the EU as a whole are virtually identical (0.62 for the US and 0.60 for the EU).  By contrast, the injury rate in the EU is much higher (0.61 for the US and 1.34 for the EU).

So my point still stands, the US is just as save as the EU.

I also was not counting Turkey or any of the other countries that are outside of the EU. Hence the 200ish count.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on May 04, 2017, 02:08:22 am
Conway, would you mind sharing your source? Just curious as to where you can find out the specific details of each terrorist attack etc.

Also RickPerry, you realise that the EU has over double the US population right? That's including the Paris attacks, which are single handedly half of the total number killed. I'm not saying not to include it, but if you were to look up until October 2015 instead it'd be a ridiculous difference (over twice as many deaths per capita in the US if I'm not mistaken). If you were to extend it to include 2016, you'd have a massive relative drop in the EU and a massive increase in the US (Orlando etc).

Now, if you look at total number of mass shootings, in the past 50 years (until the end of 2016) there have only been 90 in the US (by your metric). That being said, there have only been ~292 in the entire rest of the world.

If you have a point to make you can make statistics say whatever you want.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on May 04, 2017, 02:44:53 am
I looked it up earlier and it seems that most Terrorist attacks in Europe and the US are caused/have been caused by separatist movements (Right wing/Left wing bullshit), now I tried to find the link again but I just can not find the source.
But this is what I remember. Tell me if I am wrong, I might remember it wrong.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 04, 2017, 02:50:51 am
Btw. from your own link:
Quote
given the EU’s larger population, the per million people fatality rate for the US and the EU as a whole are virtually identical (0.62 for the US and 0.60 for the EU).  By contrast, the injury rate in the EU is much higher (0.61 for the US and 1.34 for the EU).

So my point still stands, the US is just as save as the EU.

Depends on who you are, since EU attacks tend to claim more lives thus increasing the chance someone like you and I are caught up in them:

Spoiler
Deaths from mass public shootings where at least 15 people have been killed (1970 through January 30, 2017)
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcrimeresearch.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F04%2FScreen-Shot-2017-01-30-at-Monday-January-30-6.39-AM-768x159.png&hash=a27591471f68c99c0d6fbaf11ace56236410d6c1)
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I'd encourage you to read the list of the largest mass shootings throughout the world:

Religion of peace (http://crimeresearch.org/2017/01/with-39-killed-in-tunisia-attack-the-top-three-mass-public-shootings-are-outside-the-united-states/)

Also RickPerry, you realise that the EU has over double the US population right? That's including the Paris attacks, which are single handedly half of the total number killed. I'm not saying not to include it, but if you were to look up until October 2015 instead it'd be a ridiculous difference (over twice as many deaths per capita in the US if I'm not mistaken). If you were to extend it to include 2016, you'd have a massive relative drop in the EU and a massive increase in the US (Orlando etc).

I can make it fairer, if you'd like:

Quote
"Obama doesn’t need to look any further than France, which last year suffered 532 casualties (killings and woundings) versus 396 in the US during the first seven full years of the Obama administration from 2009 through 2015."

get culturally enriched
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on May 04, 2017, 11:33:26 am
Great memes here tbh
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 04, 2017, 01:20:42 pm
Yeah. Wasnt trying to discredit it.

Figures differ on the source, hence the roughly. Also, im pretty sure the 400 is with Turkey as well, otherwise it is moreso 300ish.

You could argue a lot about the numbers, but a number of Intelligence agencies do not count deaths cuased by terrorists with no ties to ISIS besides claiming it's in their name.

ISIS itself is rather weak and not even close to their power they had two years ago...They've lost a lot of their resources and since 2013, since they've been in the medai such a fuckton, it has become a political priority to hunt them down, which Europe has done rather successfully. The fight on their land is going well (not for ISIS).

Their current threat is at its lowest in a long time, but mostly because they suck at conventional warfare and therefore have lost most of their means to fight... I mean... there are multiple SOF who claim you barely needed cover when fighting terrorists when it initially started. This has changed, though still... they're shit fighters.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 04, 2017, 08:50:28 pm
Great memes here tbh

Doesn't really matter if ISIS suddenly disappeared from the ME all together, there's still this to worry about (1m 44s is the best part):

https://youtu.be/S4K4okVa7dU

The video might be banned in Germany so apologies in advance, Olafson
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 05, 2017, 01:06:08 pm
A considerable number of clips from that vid were from riots cuaed by football, political protests in South-America and anti-government protests in Turkey
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on May 05, 2017, 06:46:20 pm
A considerable number of clips from that vid were from riots cuaed by football, political protests in South-America and anti-government protests in Turkey
Arguably the most concerning part of that was the comments made by some of the Muslims in the video, and the ideology they carry. Also the clips from that German University, this all is just a big problem and to be perfectly honest Europe should not be taking in these refugees in such high numbers with so little concern over who they are.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 05, 2017, 08:16:09 pm
A considerable number of clips from that vid were from riots cuaed by football, political protests in South-America and anti-government protests in Turkey

The beginning clips are very much authentic - there are many cases of refugees being dumped somewhere very nice and scenic by the government. The most popular case in the UK is that of Longford, a pleasant little village that was terrorised by refugees after they pulled up in a bus and set up camp in people's gardens.

Arguably the most concerning part of that was the comments made by some of the Muslims in the video, and the ideology they carry. Also the clips from that German University, this all is just a big problem and to be perfectly honest Europe should not be taking in these refugees in such high numbers with so little concern over who they are.

Pretty much. Though the """refugees""" chimping out and screaming "MONEYYYY!" at the camera isn't enough evidence of ill intent for Riddlez and Mr "The IRA are worse than ISIS" Olafson.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on May 05, 2017, 08:23:59 pm
I'm pretty sure most EU apologists would take it up the ass by a rapeugee and still claim that it's good because they've been culturally enriched like never before ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 05, 2017, 09:21:37 pm
Pretty much. Though the """refugees""" chimping out and screaming "MONEYYYY!" at the camera isn't enough evidence of ill intent for Riddlez and Mr "The IRA are worse than ISIS" Olafson.

Hardly. I just don't believe refugees are different people than any of us. Actual war refugees are mostly desperate. This leads to erratic behaviour when, after a journey (aka hell) of a couple of weeks of trafvelling through hostile land, you are denied what you are desperate for. Be that something as simple as safety, or simply because where you come from is a shit place to exist.

And then there's others. You can genuinly believe you want a better chance at life. I mean who can blame anyone who wants that? And you have another group who are lazy as fuck and wouldn't have thrived in any country, much less their own. If you're not willing to contribute to the society you live in then you can't be expected to have any sort of success anywhere else.

For that last group, I can without any remorse proclaim they're not our problem (I'm not talking about war or political refugees, I am a firm believer in humanitarian law, we're obligated to take them in). So they can fuck off for all I care. If you're not born a useless shit in Europe, then we are entitled to be assholes and filter you out from our lands.
For that first group... If they come here, I believe (and you can argue with that, this is just what I feel) we are obligated to give them a chance and thus a place here. Yes, their coiuntry needs them harder than we do, but they'r already here and by all international law we must give them a chance. That they can't or won't stay in their own country is not their fault, it's a leadership error and a failure to help other country by the international community (another belief, I strongly advise not to argue with that one, you won't change my mind). If anyone claims 'that is not our problem', then I think that to be medieval. Everyone profits from a world of developed countries, it would solve more problems than I can think of.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 05, 2017, 09:45:34 pm
Given all refugees from Syria had to pass through at least one safe country to get to Europe, under international law they are no longer classed as refugees.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on May 05, 2017, 10:44:09 pm
I'm pretty sure most EU apologists would take it up the ass by a rapeugee and still claim that it's good because they've been culturally enriched like never before ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
wat

Im for the EU and against Refugess. Does that fit into your black and white world?

What is it with linear world views anyway. I feel like political diversity simply stopped to exist.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 05, 2017, 11:09:01 pm
Given all refugees from Syria had to pass through at least one safe country to get to Europe, under international law they are no longer classed as refugees.

Then my other points still stand.
Can't blame them for choosing Germany, The Netherlands over 'safe' countries. Besides, those countries are at maximum capacity anyways.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 05, 2017, 11:17:31 pm
Given all refugees from Syria had to pass through at least one safe country to get to Europe, under international law they are no longer classed as refugees.

Then my other points still stand.
Can't blame them for choosing Germany, The Netherlands over 'safe' countries. Besides, those countries are at maximum capacity anyways.

And the UK agreed to accept a large number from Calais who were complaining France wasn't good enough, as well as men in their 30s posing as children.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on May 06, 2017, 12:35:17 am
Do any of you actually think allowing millions of refugees into Europe is beneficial to your own country's economic/social development? 'cultural enrichment' lol
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 06, 2017, 12:34:20 pm
Definitely not cultural enrichtment... really dont get that argument. At the moment it doesnt nessecarily benefit anything really... though there will come a time in the foreseeable future where we either need to fuck more, or need moor immigrants.


On a completely seperate note: the Dutch commander of the armed forces went on record stating populism is an indirect threat to our country's safety. I don't disagree, I am suprised he is getting involved in political affairs publicly... the military usually tries to stay well clear of that.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 06, 2017, 03:30:06 pm
Definitely not cultural enrichtment... really dont get that argument. At the moment it doesnt nessecarily benefit anything really... though there will come a time in the foreseeable future where we either need to fuck more, or need moor immigrants.

Well given the EU average fertility rate is 1.58 children per woman I'd say time's essentially already run out-I guess Europe won't be colonising the Solar System anytime soon.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on May 06, 2017, 04:33:18 pm
Definitely not cultural enrichtment... really dont get that argument. At the moment it doesnt nessecarily benefit anything really... though there will come a time in the foreseeable future where we either need to fuck more, or need moor immigrants.


On a completely seperate note: the Dutch commander of the armed forces went on record stating populism is an indirect threat to our country's safety. I don't disagree, I am suprised he is getting involved in political affairs publicly... the military usually tries to stay well clear of that.
No we dont need to fuck more and we dont need more fucking immigrants.

Jobs are declining, automatisation will elimate almost all low income Jobs. We need to decrease our Numbers now or face a dystopian future were the majority of people will be unemployed.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on May 07, 2017, 10:03:52 pm
Vive l'Empereur.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 07, 2017, 10:11:19 pm
http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/124522113

pure comedy
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 07, 2017, 10:14:34 pm
It's 4chan... it could be a staged comedy show for all we know... I mean... who knows what truly goes on there?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 07, 2017, 10:19:18 pm
The fact that the alt-right has been cucked so far this year is what I call comedy. Le Pen and Wilders lost, Farage fell off the face of the earth and Trump has done fuck all in 100+ days.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 07, 2017, 10:24:27 pm
Anyone who opposes the EU is alt-right!

You Europhiles and your labels  ::)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 07, 2017, 10:28:08 pm
Anyone who opposes the EU is alt-right!

You Europhiles and your labels  ::)
I mean they've basically been held in providence by the alt-right, despite all of them being relatively shitty politicians.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 07, 2017, 10:32:23 pm
I'm sure your Rothschild banker candidate will have the best interests of the French people in mind.

Don't forget to make sure armed military are guarding the polling booths so that you are not culturally enriched while casting your vote.

france yes
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2017%2F05%2F07%2F13%2F400B82B100000578-4481796-image-a-38_1494160327797.jpg&hash=cdc9a9eb19af3528e80964d1b75d446e14587422)
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2017%2F05%2F07%2F13%2F400B35A900000578-4481796-image-m-31_1494158947258.jpg&hash=6939520efa32771f9f04dd39b042de39b7c8ebb8)
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2017%2F05%2F07%2F13%2F400B368900000578-4481796-image-m-33_1494160029949.jpg&hash=290d0647fac5b259aff9922abb82cfb4b17f7cdb)
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2017%2F05%2F07%2F13%2F400B33ED00000578-4481796-image-m-35_1494160057775.jpg&hash=c8e7241d3480a81b27daa8dab7650e77f4fef749)
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Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on May 07, 2017, 10:35:32 pm
Can't argue with democracy, even if it voted in the other favor. I just love how the media blacked out and didn't report on the emails as if the bias wasn't already strong enough. I hope there's some rife stuff in there for the next few years.

Anyhow, to close with some final words: France, once the people that stopped the Muslim invasion of Europe, have now embraced Islam. It's all come full circle.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 07, 2017, 10:48:06 pm
I don't know why we're complaining, as Le Pen said this whole election has been a win for the Euro-skeptic right. The PS in ruins, the republicans weak, and the last two candidates in the French election being a social liberal and fiscal/defense centre-right? No one can argue France has shifted right and even if they stay centre-right I'm fine with that. I'll take a Macron win over anyone else in that election if it means the top two French parties become the renamed FN and a centrist EM. This is like if both Democrat and Republican candidates lost to the Libertarians and a centrist independent, and that's a win for everyone involved.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 07, 2017, 11:05:25 pm
He won't have a majority in the French Parliament so the next 5 years will be difficult for him. Le Pen was obviously never going to win before 2022, but FN have clearly made a lot of progress and we'll see how many Assembly members and senators they get. Italy is the one to watch and an Italian exit from the Eurozone is still more likely than not, which should be enough to bring the whole project crashing down. That doesn't even rely on 5 Star winning in 2018 by the way, it could just as easily be triggered by an Italian banking collapse or a combination of the two.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 07, 2017, 11:20:37 pm
I just love how the media blacked out and didn't report on the emails as if the bias wasn't already strong enough. I

They didn't report it because it's illegal.

Quote from Dutch Media NOS (I translated it myself so bear with me please):


"The hack is major news, still French media reports nothing about it. They are not allowed to publish the contents of the emails. Publication is seen as a crime. According to French Election Law, it's illegal anyhow to speak to campaign workers just before election day."


They also report it's extremely likely the contents will be spilled all over the media as soon as tomorrow.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 07, 2017, 11:44:10 pm
They were no where as near as bad as Clinton's, anyway.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on May 08, 2017, 01:02:15 am
"Next time guys! Surely, next time!"
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 08, 2017, 03:57:02 am
"Next time guys! Surely, next time!"
-Democracts in 2016
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 08, 2017, 05:33:38 am
Also, the army was put in place because of the massive rioting of the people that did not want to vote for either Macaroni or Le Penis. Not because of "le scary Muslims", you massive sperg.

Incorrect as usual, armed officers and sniffer dogs were placed on sight among terror threats:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4481796/Louvre-courtyard-evacuated-security-alert.html?ito=social-facebook

massive rioting

Hahaha, don't flatter yourself. I checked up on the riots to find they'd already been quelled within the hour. Absolutely pathetic, but I wouldn't expect else from subhuman Anfaggots like yourself.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 08, 2017, 06:47:49 am
Is that the best you can do?

One of your articles is pure speculation of what could break out (it didn't):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/22/presidential-election-could-lead-rioting-french-cities-intelligence/

The other talks about 50,000 police and elite soldiers standing on guard due to the ISLAMIC TERROR that has plagued the country:
Quote
"Speaking after an emergency meeting of top security officials, Prime Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said all elite units were on top alert for the election to back up the 50,000 police already earmarked for special election duty."

"Nothing must be allowed to impede the fundamental democratic process of our country. It falls to us not to give in to fear and intimidation and manipulation which would play into the hands of the enemy."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-21/paris-shooting-france-enlists-elite-soldiers-to-guard-election/8462522

Do the French consider their own civilians "the enemy"?

Do you read your articles before linking them as source? Your "riots" had an impact of fucking zilch.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 08, 2017, 07:18:59 am
Quote
Do the French consider their own civilians "the enemy"?

Isn't that the reason behind all the support for Le Pen? Because she is going to fight for "their interests."?

So which is it?

The PM clearly stated that the armed guards were assigned to their post to ward off "intimidation and manipulation", the two things Islamic terrorists currently strive for. As if that wasn't enough evidence within itself, the article then states the threat level of terror in France - Jesus Christ, the entire article is based on Islamic terror, rioting doesn't cross the mind of the reader.

Tell me, do you have a wardrobe full of tinfoil hats or does the same one suffice over and over? Not everything is a hidden message from the elite. The PM's reasoning for stationing guards is one sound and based upon the fact that hundreds have been killed by the very real threat that is Islamic terror. The fact you think you and your blackblock buddies are on their level, and would have the attention of the government, is pure ignorance.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 08, 2017, 12:12:57 pm
Can we like.... Keep the voices down a bit? This thread has been going fine for at least 100 pages... please let the ad-hominems not influence that streak. Show we're better tha US politics thread.

Spoiler
I'm not really asking
[close]


More on topic:

Those soldiers are mostly for show and preventing a panic. It is an established idea in counter-terrorism that the more visible you are, the more the crowd things you're getting things done, but the less you're actually achieving.
The most successfull counter-terrorism operations (as had been deployed after the Brussel Bombings) were for the far, far greatest part invisible to the public. Systems then were unlocked that are normally prevented from being used by privacy law (yes, that is a things, does actually happen and is abided by (yeah I was surprised too).

A regular increased presence is only a little less capable than the soldiers you see on the pictures. Yes I am aware that is contra-intuitive, but that is how it goes. Especially in the major cities there is armed police spec-ops on-scene within 5 minutes. In those couple minutes, sure, The Legion can make a difference but it is necligable to the costs and effort it is to keep the lads on the streets. More police almost reaches the same effect.

Spoiler
And because I know you're going to ask for sources:
Gendarmerie general, couple of staff officers
A marine major
Former Military intelligence director
Some civilian Ph.D. lecturers
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 08, 2017, 12:52:48 pm
Not trying to gloat, but are things seriously that bad that France (and other EU countries) had to put armed police and the actual military on the streets during an election? From a British perspective that seems insane.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on May 08, 2017, 01:37:32 pm
Can't really comment on France, but I believe it was to counter both protests and give people the feeling that they were safe. Even if nothing has happened for quite a while, people will always feel insecure. Perhaps some natural Frenchie can shed some light on this, as we're all just speculating on it.

As for other countries, there were no soldiers deployed to guard polling booths during the Dutch elections.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 08, 2017, 01:42:10 pm
Not trying to gloat, but are things seriously that bad that France (and other EU countries) had to put armed police and the actual military on the streets during an election? From a British perspective that seems insane.

It is insane. As I said it's noting but show.


As for other countries, there were no soldiers deployed to guard polling booths during the Dutch elections.

Technically there were, since the KMar are military personnel as well... buit otherwise? No. The army is only considered to being deployed at the highest threat level or on individual occasions, such as the Brussel Bombings when I think a single company was deployed for border control.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 08, 2017, 07:14:13 pm
This is coming from the guy that thinks the EU is some sort of race mixing project lel.

Eh? Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi (may peace be upon him) said that, not me.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 08, 2017, 09:59:59 pm
Well that didn't take long.

http://www.politico.eu/article/juncker-the-french-spend-too-much-money/

And this from a man who was allegedly drunk again at a UN summit in Cyprus last week. Juncker has already ruled out a second term (quite unusual I might add-he's basically admitted he's not up to it) but he should go now to spare himself further embarrassment.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 08, 2017, 10:35:16 pm
Aren't French soldiers deployed under Operation Sentinel?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op%C3%A9ration_Sentinelle
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on May 09, 2017, 02:00:30 am
They are, but that's not related to the elections. A massive number of soldiers and police are already deployed 24/7 in France atm. It's been that way for ages, which from what I heard has been really taking its toll on both military and police forces through exhaustion from the sheer number of hours they're having to put in.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 09, 2017, 02:17:29 am
Well that didn't take long.

http://www.politico.eu/article/juncker-the-french-spend-too-much-money/

And this from a man who was allegedly drunk again at a UN summit in Cyprus last week. Juncker has already ruled out a second term (quite unusual I might add-he's basically admitted he's not up to it) but he should go now to spare himself further embarrassment.

Juncker is a twat just look up the contreversies revolving him as PM of Luxembourg.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Portals on May 09, 2017, 02:29:36 am
Can't argue with democracy, even if it voted in the other favor. I just love how the media blacked out and didn't report on the emails as if the bias wasn't already strong enough. I hope there's some rife stuff in there for the next few years.

Anyhow, to close with some final words: France, once the people that stopped the Muslim invasion of Europe, have now embraced Islam. It's all come full circle.

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdata.amirite.net%2Fquote_author_images%2F5396047660542.jpg&hash=32b198e54fb0ef46cb6ae942b23ce37ae8e53d1d)
Zhere's shome top notch ideology straight from zhe trashcan. I mean, I'm talking shome really pure schtuff.*sniff* Maybe this garbage has been schtinking for a while in the hot shun. Uh vote for Macron ish apperantly a vote for scharia law, and embracing Islam and so on and so on.I guess things just sorta come together when looking into the trash. tugs shirt Zhis ish shuch a silly train of tought it's shurprishing that it even exist. I suppose ideology ish a powerful thing
*sniff*
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cara on May 09, 2017, 10:34:50 am
They are, but that's not related to the elections. A massive number of soldiers and police are already deployed 24/7 in France atm. It's been that way for ages, which from what I heard has been really taking its toll on both military and police forces through exhaustion from the sheer number of hours they're having to put in.

Exactly. However, it's also right that it has been increased for the elections, considering our intelligence did thwart at least 3 attacks (one was imminent against one candidate).


On the contrary of what I've read here, there is a big difference between the military deployed to prevent a terrorist attack to happen in Paris, the regular police forces deployed to secure the election (I'm one of those) and the riot police deployed to face the post-election demonstration. I know it's hard to understand but there is a big legal difference in how you can use these forces. And the 8 may demonstration against the president-elect was not massive, it was the usual far-left/anarchists people.


About the "Macronleaks", there was no black-out from french news :
- Most major newspapers did mention it but did not reveal the content for two reasons (stated by Le Monde's director) : 1/ they refuse to be used by these wikileaks activists the day before the election 2/ They weren't able yet to read it all and see if there was something relevant or only personnal stuff and meetings organisation.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 09, 2017, 02:16:00 pm
Wasn't there also suspicions that some of the "leaks" where fake?

Anyhow former PM Manuel Valls links up with En Marche! Opinions?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cara on May 09, 2017, 04:07:41 pm
Wasn't there also suspicions that some of the "leaks" where fake?

Anyhow former PM Manuel Valls links up with En Marche! Opinions?

Yeah exactly as Richard Ferrand, Macron's spokesman, said today in a newsconference. A judge has opened an investigation we will see.

He said it but "En Marche!" replied that he didn't follow their investiture protocol ;) He is politically close of Macron but he is too linked to the precedent presidency.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 09, 2017, 04:20:10 pm
Oh wow what an idiot.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 09, 2017, 06:11:40 pm
Anyhow former PM Manuel Valls links up with En Marche! Opinions?

He needs a lifeboat and En Marche! is the only one available. Duh.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 09, 2017, 10:16:29 pm
Weren't even WikiLeaks skeptical about the relevance of the leaks? That's what I saw from them on Twitter at least
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 12, 2017, 05:19:33 pm
Looks like the French are working on their next set of demands from the rest of the EU-lets hope sufficient pieces of silver can be found in time. Never understood why Britain always got the blame for not putting 'Europe' first.

http://www.euractiv.com/section/future-eu/opinion/an-outside-the-box-solution-to-brexit-and-the-strasbourg-seat/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1494600819
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 12, 2017, 05:32:52 pm
Strasbourg is the logical choice
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 13, 2017, 12:22:09 am
Can't say that I care where it's put if Strasbourg is the most cost effective choice then sure why not?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on May 13, 2017, 10:15:47 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixEahmx0Btw

Sad! Down with Trump!

Completely legit news
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 13, 2017, 01:10:41 pm
It is noteworthy, indeed. And I am not kidding. It says a lot how a person wants to come across.

Or it is a subtle note of power to people he needs/wants to coerce into doing something. If that is the case, he probably didn't think about it himself (because really, nobody does)
If it's not, then it's extremely childish and inconsiderate. Again, says something about a person's character.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Peppers on May 13, 2017, 03:56:56 pm
Rly makes U think
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 14, 2017, 12:50:22 am
Really gets the noggin' joggin'


really stimulates the synapses
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on May 14, 2017, 03:07:10 am
Makes those neurons fire
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 15, 2017, 11:40:55 am
Though, really... The fact you need to report on it either means:
- Your country has so few problems there is nothing else to report
- There genuinly is nothing to report that day
- Your journalists aren't capable of doing more
- There is news, but it's too complex to dumb down for a news report
Spoiler
Nah really those reporters were all hoping for a scandal, couldn't find one, so they created one.

It's all a leftist conspiracy of the Goldman-Sachs news agencies who want to reinstall communism.

Spoiler
Nah really it was the democrats
[close]

[close]

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on May 15, 2017, 12:13:47 pm
Really hitting hard with good points Riddlez. Really makes me do the :thinking:
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 15, 2017, 01:30:06 pm
Here to inspire
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 15, 2017, 05:02:35 pm
Though, really... The fact you need to report on it either means:
- Your country has so few problems there is nothing else to report
- There genuinly is nothing to report that day
- Your journalists aren't capable of doing more
- There is news, but it's too complex to dumb down for a news report
Spoiler
Nah really those reporters were all hoping for a scandal, couldn't find one, so they created one.

It's all a leftist conspiracy of the Goldman-Sachs news agencies who want to reinstall communism.

Spoiler
Nah really it was the democrats
[close]

[close]



Alex Jones would be impressed.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 15, 2017, 11:09:08 pm
I AM Alex Jones
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 16, 2017, 03:52:52 am
Was it the
"democrats"
or the
"Democrats"
Cause that's important
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 16, 2017, 05:44:26 pm
Well, because stupid questions don't exist: with a capital D
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on May 16, 2017, 09:10:25 pm
Not really a stupid question ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

(https://media.8ch.net/file_store/b0d2ff23e197c121a0d7f0c3f9e475a01f33ee4d37444f46ea1f9d510e649b98.png)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 21, 2017, 03:01:39 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw3w3bt9JGI
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 21, 2017, 07:56:06 am
Saudi Arabia one of the most oppressive countries in the middle east and ally to the USA "the land of the free".
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on May 21, 2017, 05:51:20 pm
Saudi Arabia one of the most oppressive countries in the middle east and ally to the USA "the land of the free".
at least the Saudi country is not deeply enveloped in civil war from a series of terrible dictators. They can at least be worked with to be less oppressive in the future, whereas most other countries in the middle east (excluding Israel) literally have no government in power and instead are fighting each other.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on May 21, 2017, 06:59:52 pm
Saudi Arabia one of the most oppressive countries in the middle east and ally to the USA "the land of the free".
They aren't a great country and SA funds a lot of Sunni terrorists but they're a major trade ally and military ally in the region. It's better to have a friend, however bad he may be, then be alone when you charge in. 

From what I've heard there is a massive trade deal that is/went down but I'd be interested to see if Trump could get SA to take in Syrian refugees so Europe can stop cucking itself over them
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 21, 2017, 07:29:05 pm
I can see why they are valuable to the U.S in the region. But its honestly stupid to sell them a fuckton of weapons seeing they don't really co-operate with the U.S as much as they should and, you know. Hate Israel. 
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 21, 2017, 10:12:49 pm
I can see why they are valuable to the U.S in the region. But its honestly stupid to sell them a fuckton of weapons seeing they don't really co-operate with the U.S as much as they should and, you know. Hate Israel.

Who else is going to buy them? Plus I think you'll find the Saudis don't hate Israel nearly as much as most other Middle Eastern states, and that's mainly down to US influence. Israel and Saudi Arabia have co-operated plenty of times behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 21, 2017, 10:25:19 pm
Saudi Arabia one of the most oppressive countries in the middle east and ally to the USA "the land of the free".
They aren't a great country and SA funds a lot of Sunni terrorists but they're a major trade ally and military ally in the region. It's better to have a friend, however bad he may be, then be alone when you charge in. 

From what I've heard there is a massive trade deal that is/went down but I'd be interested to see if Trump could get SA to take in Syrian refugees so Europe can stop cucking itself over them
Besides, it's better to have Saudia Arabia as a stable ally in the Middle East, with Iraq and Syria in shambles and Iran as a religious state.
You realize those states don't accept refugees because those countries already repress political liberty, right? Taking in refugees from an active rebellion in a close country doesn't seem like the best move for your political stability. They also control OPEC (which fucked Canada, by the way) and as Steven said, they aren't hellbent on destroying Israel. Doesn't make them a 10/10 ally but it's more like 7/10, and in the mid east you take what you can get

Edit: Holy shit, anyone else see the deals reaching in Saudi Arabia? this is truly history
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 22, 2017, 08:25:30 pm
Theodin, Canada's oil industry (or should I say, Alberta's oil industry) is fucked mainly by Quebec, especially that moron Coderre in Montreal who objects to pipelines on environmental grounds but then dumps 8 billion litres of raw sewage into the Saint Lawrence River. Naturally the Quebecois expect their equalisation payments to be funded by Albertan oil however. Tbh we should have done what the Americans did in Louisiana with the Cajun and properly make them integrate, but it's way too late for that now.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 22, 2017, 08:39:45 pm
Theodin, Canada's oil industry (or should I say, Alberta's oil industry) is fucked mainly by Quebec, especially that moron Coderre in Montreal who objects to pipelines on environmental grounds but then dumps 8 billion litres of raw sewage into the Saint Lawrence River. Naturally the Quebecois expect their equalisation payments to be funded by Albertan oil however. Tbh we should have done what the Americans did in Louisiana with the Cajun and properly make them integrate, but it's way too late for that now.
A lot of the Frenchies in Louisiana where forced out of Newfoundland and Acadia by the British Government. Would have been to many in Quebec, they caused enough rebellions as it was.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 22, 2017, 10:25:28 pm
Theodin, Canada's oil industry (or should I say, Alberta's oil industry) is fucked mainly by Quebec, especially that moron Coderre in Montreal who objects to pipelines on environmental grounds but then dumps 8 billion litres of raw sewage into the Saint Lawrence River. Naturally the Quebecois expect their equalisation payments to be funded by Albertan oil however. Tbh we should have done what the Americans did in Louisiana with the Cajun and properly make them integrate, but it's way too late for that now.
Oh for sure. Also the fact that BC won't let pipelines through either, leaving all the oil trapped in Alberta with no real way to get it out.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 23, 2017, 12:43:34 am
BC can do no wrong, they have the word 'British' in the title  ;)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 23, 2017, 02:07:31 am
BC can do no wrong, they have the word 'British' in the title  ;)
True I forgot
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 23, 2017, 04:59:55 am
Saudi Arabia one of the most oppressive countries in the middle east and ally to the USA "the land of the free".
They aren't a great country and SA funds a lot of Sunni terrorists but they're a major trade ally and military ally in the region. It's better to have a friend, however bad he may be, then be alone when you charge in. 

From what I've heard there is a massive trade deal that is/went down but I'd be interested to see if Trump could get SA to take in Syrian refugees so Europe can stop cucking itself over them
Besides, it's better to have Saudia Arabia as a stable ally in the Middle East, with Iraq and Syria in shambles and Iran as a religious state.
You realize those states don't accept refugees because those countries already repress political liberty, right? Taking in refugees from an active rebellion in a close country doesn't seem like the best move for your political stability. They also control OPEC (which fucked Canada, by the way) and as Steven said, they aren't hellbent on destroying Israel. Doesn't make them a 10/10 ally but it's more like 7/10, and in the mid east you take what you can get

Edit: Holy shit, anyone else see the deals reaching in Saudi Arabia? this is truly history

Like Saudi Arabia isn't a religious state..
Saudi Arabia is worse towards women than even Iran is.

Iran is even more democratic then Saudi Arabia and that's saying something.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 23, 2017, 05:10:58 am
Saudi Arabia one of the most oppressive countries in the middle east and ally to the USA "the land of the free".
They aren't a great country and SA funds a lot of Sunni terrorists but they're a major trade ally and military ally in the region. It's better to have a friend, however bad he may be, then be alone when you charge in. 

From what I've heard there is a massive trade deal that is/went down but I'd be interested to see if Trump could get SA to take in Syrian refugees so Europe can stop cucking itself over them
Besides, it's better to have Saudia Arabia as a stable ally in the Middle East, with Iraq and Syria in shambles and Iran as a religious state.
You realize those states don't accept refugees because those countries already repress political liberty, right? Taking in refugees from an active rebellion in a close country doesn't seem like the best move for your political stability. They also control OPEC (which fucked Canada, by the way) and as Steven said, they aren't hellbent on destroying Israel. Doesn't make them a 10/10 ally but it's more like 7/10, and in the mid east you take what you can get

Edit: Holy shit, anyone else see the deals reaching in Saudi Arabia? this is truly history

Like Saudi Arabia isn't a religious state..
Saudi Arabia is worse towards women than even Iran is.
Where did I say that Saudi Arabia wasn't? Of course they're a religious state, but the difference is Iran believes in the destruction of infidelity, and Saudi Arabia doesn't. There's difference between a religious fanatic state and a religious state
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 23, 2017, 05:19:21 am
Okay dude in one of the countries you get lashed for spending to much time with a person of the opposite sex if you're not related. Guess which one does that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34513278/what-you-can-be-flogged-for-in-saudi-arabia

That list is pretty cool over all.

True 7/10 ally.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/263646/lashing-and-flogging-islam-and-iran-dr-majid-rafizadeh

Iran is pretty bad to though.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 23, 2017, 05:44:00 am
No one is denying the justice practiced in Iran and Saudia Arabia is terrible and cruel. But again, Saudia Arabia's foreign policy goals are NOT the destruction of Israel and worldwide Islam by force if need be. Moreover, they cooperate with the US diplomatically and militarily and at least attempt to cut funding to terror groups in the region. Iran gets a total of 0/3 with those. That's why Saudia Arabia is an ally - who else in the region can say they do those three things?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 23, 2017, 08:07:47 am
"While Saudi Arabia is often a secondary source of funds and support for terror movements who can find more motivated and ideologically invested benefactors (e.g. Qatar), Saudi Arabia arguably remains the most prolific sponsor of international Islamist terrorism, allegedly supporting groups as disparate as the Afghanistan Taliban, Al Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Al-Nusra Front."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism

There's also this but that's only allegations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_Saudi_role_in_September_11_attacks

I think no democratic nation should ally itself with a nation like Saudi Arabia who have no democratic ideals and treat about 50% of their population like shit.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on May 23, 2017, 11:02:53 am
Please. Any country should be friends with them. They have oil.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on May 23, 2017, 12:27:18 pm
I just want to point out that while Irans Goverment might have some weird ideas, the difference to Saudia Arabia is that most Iranian People do NOT agree with them and would rather see the country more open and free (look at the last election, or speak to People from Iran). My father visits Iran quite often due to work, and tbh its not nearly as shitty as you make it out to be. I advice you look up how for example the young adults of Iran behave/party, they just arent very religious at all. Iran > Saudi Wahabism Arabia anyday fam
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 23, 2017, 01:07:03 pm
True the Sweden hijab controversy opened my eyes to a liberal movement in Iran.
I applaud them for their efforts and the criticism they gave to our government.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on May 23, 2017, 05:36:13 pm
People forget that Iran used to be incredibly secular under the rule of the Shaw. Here's a good visual representation
http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-before-the-revolution-in-photos-2015-4/#ese-reforms-included-the-structuring-of-iran-around-a-central-persian-identity-the-often-brutal-suppression-of-tribes-and-their-laws-in-exchange-for-strong-a-central-government-and-the-expansion-of-womans-rights-7 (http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-before-the-revolution-in-photos-2015-4/#ese-reforms-included-the-structuring-of-iran-around-a-central-persian-identity-the-often-brutal-suppression-of-tribes-and-their-laws-in-exchange-for-strong-a-central-government-and-the-expansion-of-womans-rights-7)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 23, 2017, 06:47:01 pm
Well yeah I think that's a big reason to why there's such a large liberal movement in Iran.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 23, 2017, 07:51:30 pm
That, and the internet.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on May 24, 2017, 06:02:40 pm
In my opinion, I personally prefer a secular Iran to that of a Wahhabi state such as Saudi Arabia but the U.S.  will never ally with Iran because of the revolution and its aftermath, and their alliance with Russia and the strong North Korean connection. Hopefully if a liberal movement does show up, it will propel Iran forward in a positive manner, or so we can hope. I don't think a Conservative U.S. President would be the person to extend the peace flag though so Iran is going to be in the dust for quite some time
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 25, 2017, 06:13:12 pm
Of course it's always better to be a secular state but very few countries in the world actually are just look at the Republicans in the US.
They want to pass so many laws based on religious "morals" it's insanity.

Now I'm not saying that the US isn't a secular nation, but what I am saying is that there's politicians in most countries secular or not who take their god into consideration before making a decision which is bad.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on May 25, 2017, 06:26:51 pm
Im still sad that Le Pen lost...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 25, 2017, 06:28:57 pm
Good, I'm still sad that Donald Trump is your president constantly making a fool of himself.
(Also he's making policies which are bad for the entire planet.)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on May 25, 2017, 06:44:49 pm
Glad the POTUS is calling out NATO members about 2% spending of their GDP for defense. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that all the member nations need to pay if they expect us start world war 3 for them, especially a small country such as Lithuania or Latvia

I think we should nuke Sweden to make an example of those who don't pay the 2% rule /s
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 25, 2017, 06:47:51 pm
That doesn't make any sense we're not even in NATO.

Nice bait though.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 25, 2017, 06:58:45 pm
Good, I'm still sad that Donald Trump is your president constantly making a fool of himself.
(Also he's making policies which are bad for the entire planet.)
Who are you virtue signalling to?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 25, 2017, 07:09:10 pm
"clean coal"
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 25, 2017, 07:28:58 pm
Edit: Lol that avatar, nice try though
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 25, 2017, 08:54:23 pm
How about you just make one huge post instead of waiting until someone posts to express your grievances/baits, otherwise you're just gonna be ignored
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 25, 2017, 11:22:56 pm
Trump met with world leaders at the NATO headquarters today, hilarity ensued:

Very short videos of the highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWISsAanWWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WqJkWntgSg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH5XeHaEEaY
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on May 26, 2017, 05:02:45 am
Trump met with world leaders at the NATO headquarters today, hilarity ensued:

Very short videos of the highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWISsAanWWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WqJkWntgSg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH5XeHaEEaY
[close]

This man Trump is the biggest meme to ever touch the earth. That fucking NATO diss had me lmfao!!! and the fucking Montenegro guy getting pushed to the side honestly had me on the floor rofling!!!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on May 26, 2017, 05:29:57 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVGrZb5gCbE
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Hadhod on May 26, 2017, 06:12:57 am
Gotta love how Macron beats Trump at his own game
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Norwegian13 on May 26, 2017, 11:29:34 am
Trump met with world leaders at the NATO headquarters today, hilarity ensued:

Very short videos of the highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWISsAanWWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WqJkWntgSg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH5XeHaEEaY
[close]

This man Trump is the biggest meme to ever touch the earth. That fucking NATO diss had me lmfao!!! and the fucking Montenegro guy getting pushed to the side honestly had me on the floor rofling!!!

And Montenegro who just joined NATO... I'm sure they're regretting it already hahah
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 26, 2017, 02:04:23 pm
You may get the impression that Trump was off the rails during the meet up, but that's not really the case. If you watch the full broadcast you'll notice there's was A LOT of tension between Trump and the Europhile leaders, with both sides playing games throughout the day.

Especially Macron! He was... less than respectful.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Hadhod on May 26, 2017, 02:24:10 pm
You may get the impression that Trump was off the rails during the meet up, but that's not really the case. If you watch the full broadcast you'll notice there's was A LOT of tension between Trump and the Europhile leaders, with both sides playing games throughout the day.

Especially Macron! He was... less than respectful.
LOL

Trump is such a moron it hurts. He brought up this retarded primal alpha male demeanour and when other country leaders start paying him back in his own coin he starts to behave like a petulant child.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cahph7TR0YA
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 26, 2017, 02:31:57 pm
You may get the impression that Trump was off the rails during the meet up, but that's not really the case. If you watch the full broadcast you'll notice there's was A LOT of tension between Trump and the Europhile leaders, with both sides playing games throughout the day.

Especially Macron! He was... less than respectful.

Trump is such a moron it hurts. He brought up this retarded primal alpha male demeanour and when other country leaders start paying him back in his own coin he starts to behave like a petulant child.

Certainly nothing alpha about snubbing the man who just paid for your nice building. That's the opposite of alpha, actually. It's full bitch mode.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 26, 2017, 07:38:22 pm
Trump met with world leaders at the NATO headquarters today, hilarity ensued:

Very short videos of the highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWISsAanWWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WqJkWntgSg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH5XeHaEEaY
[close]

This man Trump is the biggest meme to ever touch the earth. That fucking NATO diss had me lmfao!!! and the fucking Montenegro guy getting pushed to the side honestly had me on the floor rofling!!!

And Montenegro who just joined NATO... I'm sure they're regretting it already hahah
I don't think you regret joining a military alliance with half of Europe and the only superpower remaining because your head of state gets moved aside at a conference by the US President. Where's the logic there???
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2017, 07:58:23 pm
Looks like we have a late entry as to which world "leader" can be the biggest douche-bag at the NATO summit, so Trump and Macron may have to step up their game if they wish to compete...

Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAxVI_1WAAAUBrP.jpg:large)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 26, 2017, 08:40:47 pm
He's a douche because of his socks?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2017, 08:59:46 pm
He's a douchebag because he thinks other world leaders give a fuck about that sort of thing. I think they've concluded he's a lightweight judging by what happened next:

Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAxROWLV0AAxJku.jpg:large)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 26, 2017, 09:08:58 pm
He fucking is a lightweight. Watching Mulcair grilling him in parliament can make my day. His entire government can't answer fucking questions.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 26, 2017, 09:20:28 pm
Looks like we have a late entry as to which world "leader" can be the biggest douche-bag at the NATO summit, so Trump and Macron may have to step up their game if they wish to compete...

Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAxVI_1WAAAUBrP.jpg:large)
[close]
FacePalm
Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 26, 2017, 09:25:22 pm
I don't know much about Canadian politics he might be a lightweight (I don't know) but I don't think showing off your socks make you a douche lol.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 26, 2017, 09:28:31 pm
One more day until the Tories get a new leader. Please god have it be Bernier. If O'Leary gets it I'm voting NDP probably.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 26, 2017, 09:32:14 pm
One more day until the Tories get a new leader. Please god have it be Bernier. If O'Leary gets it I'm voting NDP probably.
He dropped out ages ago lol
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 26, 2017, 09:37:32 pm
One more day until the Tories get a new leader. Please god have it be Bernier. If O'Leary gets it I'm voting NDP probably.
He dropped out ages ago lol
I got worried for a second and though Bernier dropped out, cool that he'll be the next leader then.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 26, 2017, 09:58:07 pm
With all the fuck ups Trump has made I am suprised there isn't yet an uproar... Literally if ANY other country leader did this, they'd be cast aside and sent to the shitters.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 26, 2017, 10:02:42 pm
Pence policy wise is just as bad as Trump but at least he's more well spoken...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on May 26, 2017, 10:47:32 pm
With all the fuck ups Trump has made I am suprised there isn't yet an uproar... Literally if ANY other country leader did this, they'd be cast aside and sent to the shitters.
Political drama and accusations are nothing. Sure he isn't the best president, but he certainly started off with a hell of a disadvantage considering half of the US is brainwashed and the other half are stubborn, so you pick your poison but the amount of people who can make their own decisions is very low. Anyone who thinks Trump shouldn't be president right now is just stupid, and removing him does no good either. Hell, you can even impeach him and still not remove him, but the fact of the matter is at the end of 4 years you can see what he did and didn't do, and judge him then. I can guarantee you he will make America stronger in the world standing, whether it be through reminding NATO members to pay their dues or increasing military spending, or up scaling general soldiers and personnel equipment.
On the other hand, I feel very sorry for EU countries like Poland and Hungary that are having their national sovereignty taken away from them as they resist, and I really think they ought to escape Brussels and the EU before their countries get sent straight to shit. This "migrant crisis" has plenty of better alternatives then sending more and more Islamist Fundamentalists and Radicals to Europe, dilluting and practically eradicating European Culture should you all not be careful.

Spoiler
When I say Radical and Fundamentalists, the majority of Muslims ARE radical, and here is a video and the study referenced in the video that show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/05/26/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/
[close]

EDIT: Also, as I posted this I remembered that people often time say not all Muslims are terrorists or radicals and that, and yes, I am aware of that. Anyone can find an example of a specific group of people that are nice. Not all Germans were Nazis, and obviously not all Muslims are extremists and fundamentalists. The problem is that so many of them are, that it is a larger problem and a fast growing population. Many schools being set up in these countries, often called Madrassas, teach extremism and ideals that are following very strict interpertations of the Quran, and these are very popular in countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan where state funded education is often times missing.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on May 26, 2017, 10:56:22 pm
With all the fuck ups CNN has manufactured with 0 evidence and baseless, vague rumors from "anonymous sources" about memos that may or may not exist
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2017, 10:59:40 pm
One more day until the Tories get a new leader. Please god have it be Bernier. If O'Leary gets it I'm voting NDP probably.

I'm hoping O'Toole gets in, seems like a great guy and the antidote to Trudeau's bullshit. Seems like Bernier will probably win though bar a major upset-he's my second choice so I don't mind. As long as Michael Chong does badly I'm happy.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on May 26, 2017, 11:00:51 pm
Doesn't help that the U.K. doesn't even trust us with intelligence because of how rampant the leaks are. There's a difference between exposing corruption and collusion compared to interfering with active terrorist plots and information such as that with the Manchester Attack. The best part is that the NTY and Washington Post have wet dreams thinking about posting these leaks when in reality it's doing more damage to the country.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 26, 2017, 11:18:34 pm
When Hillary Clinton used her email to send classified information to people with clearance Republicans freaked out.
Donald Trump gave classified information to the Russians but when he did it Republicans where okay with it.


Also "I just fired the head of the FBI. He was crazy, a real nut job... I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off." -Donald J Trump
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 27, 2017, 01:03:01 am
When Hillary Clinton used her email to send classified information to people with clearance Republicans freaked out.
Donald Trump gave classified information to the Russians but when he did it Republicans where okay with it.


Also "I just fired the head of the FBI. He was crazy, a real nut job... I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off." -Donald J Trump
While everyone's heard that sensational story, what no one knows is:
1. The relevance of the intelligence
2. The classification level
3. Whether Israel/CIA told him he could
4. What Russia gave in return
etc. But oh, Trump gave someone intelligence, must be a Russian puppet!

It's like you all ignored that Comey, in typical Comey fashion, told a high ranking politician that they weren't under investigation when he was ready to commence investigation. He also mislead CONGRESS, which is a big no no. But because Trump's been accused of being a Russian puppet, and he fired an incompetent FBI director, he MUST be a Russian puppet!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on May 27, 2017, 01:43:42 am
The point is more that just because he's president doesn't mean he can't make poor decisions. The whole point of having an intelligence service is to decide what to do with information that's gathered. The president is not automatically a genius at economics, intelligence, warfare etc just by assuming the role.
Personally I find Trump's attitude towards intelligence agencies (both the censoring and free distribution) alarming. But then, why would he want the American public to be made aware of his involvements with Russia, considering the Cold-cold-war both Russia and the West seem set on.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on May 27, 2017, 01:57:29 am
Why do people care if US and Russia are working together and are becoming closer allies? As a citizen of the US i would love to see US and Russia form a tightly knit alliance that no other nation's on earth could contest. Why does the US always have to be the "good guy" cant we stop with the caring big brother act and start looking out for ourselves.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 27, 2017, 02:10:18 am
Why do people care if US and Russia are working together and are becoming closer allies? As a citizen of the US i would love to see US and Russia form a tightly knit alliance that no other nation's on earth could contest. Why does the US always have to be the "good guy" cant we stop with the caring big brother act and start looking out for ourselves.

US the new edgy bad boy.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 27, 2017, 02:31:53 am
US the new edgy bad boy.

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/de08913f10629e2b3682e0672745fe36.png)
[close]
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/81d52e57bb734914cfa551f0203f9973.png)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on May 27, 2017, 04:59:17 am
All it takes to be an edgey bad boy is not hating Russia?

I better start cutting my wrists then.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 27, 2017, 05:04:21 am
That's not even close to what he said.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on May 27, 2017, 05:05:27 am
All it takes to be an edgey bad boy is not hating Russia?

I better start cutting my wrists then.

You best build a bunker in your backyard and start looking for Reds under your beds cause its McCarthyism 2.0, now with less evidence!

Remember to report suspicious activities to the House Committee on Un-American Activities or you may be a RUSSIAN SYMPATHIZER
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on May 27, 2017, 07:01:46 am
Impeach trump so Hillary becomes president because that's how the line of succession works
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 27, 2017, 09:42:16 am
When Hillary Clinton used her email to send classified information to people with clearance Republicans freaked out.
Donald Trump gave classified information to the Russians but when he did it Republicans where okay with it.


Also "I just fired the head of the FBI. He was crazy, a real nut job... I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off." -Donald J Trump
While everyone's heard that sensational story, what no one knows is:
1. The relevance of the intelligence
2. The classification level
3. Whether Israel/CIA told him he could
4. What Russia gave in return
etc. But oh, Trump gave someone intelligence, must be a Russian puppet!

It's like you all ignored that Comey, in typical Comey fashion, told a high ranking politician that they weren't under investigation when he was ready to commence investigation. He also mislead CONGRESS, which is a big no no. But because Trump's been accused of being a Russian puppet, and he fired an incompetent FBI director, he MUST be a Russian puppet!
All of your points are irrelevant Trump commited high treason and he's to stupid to realize it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 27, 2017, 01:55:42 pm
Lmao, Trump is hilarious
Spoiler
https://twitter.com/BBCJLandale/status/868418708502441986
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 27, 2017, 03:48:34 pm
English is the only language worth listening to  8)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 27, 2017, 04:12:42 pm
It is exactly this kind of stunts that I meant.... International politics is literally about details like that. It wouldn't be suprising at all if during negotiations this would be brought up.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on May 27, 2017, 04:25:22 pm
Why do people care if US and Russia are working together and are becoming closer allies? As a citizen of the US i would love to see US and Russia form a tightly knit alliance that no other nation's on earth could contest. Why does the US always have to be the "good guy" cant we stop with the caring big brother act and start looking out for ourselves.

US the new edgy bad boy.

Please elaborate?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on May 27, 2017, 05:16:16 pm
It is exactly this kind of stunts that I meant.... International politics is literally about details like that. It wouldn't be suprising at all if during negotiations this would be brought up.

Shit boys the Italians are pissed that Trump didn't wear the stylin headphones they provided.

Guess I better stock up on Dejornos
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 27, 2017, 06:12:20 pm
It is exactly this kind of stunts that I meant.... International politics is literally about details like that. It wouldn't be suprising at all if during negotiations this would be brought up.

Shit boys the Italians are pissed that Trump didn't wear the stylin headphones they provided.

Guess I better stock up on Dejornos

Spicer to the rescue:
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/a61adbe20210f03ca2f8c0dba8027909.png)
[close]

Who do you believe?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 27, 2017, 09:14:49 pm
When Hillary Clinton used her email to send classified information to people with clearance Republicans freaked out.
Donald Trump gave classified information to the Russians but when he did it Republicans where okay with it.


Also "I just fired the head of the FBI. He was crazy, a real nut job... I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off." -Donald J Trump
While everyone's heard that sensational story, what no one knows is:
1. The relevance of the intelligence
2. The classification level
3. Whether Israel/CIA told him he could
4. What Russia gave in return
etc. But oh, Trump gave someone intelligence, must be a Russian puppet!

It's like you all ignored that Comey, in typical Comey fashion, told a high ranking politician that they weren't under investigation when he was ready to commence investigation. He also mislead CONGRESS, which is a big no no. But because Trump's been accused of being a Russian puppet, and he fired an incompetent FBI director, he MUST be a Russian puppet!
All of your points are irrelevant Trump commited high treason and he's to stupid to realize it.
Good talk, i'm convinced now
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on May 27, 2017, 09:33:16 pm
When Hillary Clinton used her email to send classified information to people with clearance Republicans freaked out.
Donald Trump gave classified information to the Russians but when he did it Republicans where okay with it.


Also "I just fired the head of the FBI. He was crazy, a real nut job... I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off." -Donald J Trump
While everyone's heard that sensational story, what no one knows is:
1. The relevance of the intelligence
2. The classification level
3. Whether Israel/CIA told him he could
4. What Russia gave in return
etc. But oh, Trump gave someone intelligence, must be a Russian puppet!

It's like you all ignored that Comey, in typical Comey fashion, told a high ranking politician that they weren't under investigation when he was ready to commence investigation. He also mislead CONGRESS, which is a big no no. But because Trump's been accused of being a Russian puppet, and he fired an incompetent FBI director, he MUST be a Russian puppet!
All of your points are irrelevant Trump commited high treason and he's to stupid to realize it.


commited high treason and he's to stupid to realize it.


commited high treason and he's to stupid to realize it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on May 27, 2017, 10:00:04 pm
Lmao, Trump is hilarious
Spoiler
https://twitter.com/BBCJLandale/status/868418708502441986
[close]
trump probably is fluent in Italian and has his eyes closed so he could hear better
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 27, 2017, 11:36:28 pm
Lmao, Trump is hilarious
Spoiler
https://twitter.com/BBCJLandale/status/868418708502441986
[close]
trump probably is fluent in Italian and has his eyes closed so he could hear better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krtnt191Drg
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Peppers on May 27, 2017, 11:41:29 pm
You're really making me think here... Dhanald drumpf is finished now... I'm smelling peaches..... IMPEACHES  >:(
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 27, 2017, 11:53:19 pm
Lmao, Trump is hilarious
Spoiler
https://twitter.com/BBCJLandale/status/868418708502441986
[close]
trump probably is fluent in Italian and has his eyes closed so he could hear better

-snip-

Ending spoiler
Landa should have been successful in escaping at the end, would have been a perfect ending imo  :(
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 27, 2017, 11:55:11 pm
Bonjourno kills mes everytime.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 28, 2017, 12:22:16 am
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/e06cc6d702e27bcce8c2febd2bc30d90.png)
[close]
 
 ???
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 28, 2017, 01:45:10 am
Any Canadians following the Conservative leadership election? Looking very close between Bernier and Scheer but looks like latter might just nudge it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 28, 2017, 01:56:14 am
Any Canadians following the Conservative leadership election? Looking very close between Bernier and Scheer but looks like latter might just nudge it.
Didn't even realize Bernier had competition :o. Will be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 28, 2017, 02:37:21 am
Well, Scheer won with 51% of the votes after 12 rounds of preference voting. Major upset.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 28, 2017, 02:56:15 am
Cool, hes young so that may get more votes. Bernier could have won over Quebec though which is worth a lot of seats.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 28, 2017, 03:12:31 am
Scheer comes across as a really nice guy, none of this fake shit Trudeau does either, he's pretty genuine from what I can see. He also wasn't hankering after the job for years like a lot of the others and probably just wanted to be Speaker. Hope he wins at the next election.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 28, 2017, 03:44:03 am
Scheer comes across as a really nice guy, none of this fake shit Trudeau does either, he's pretty genuine from what I can see. He also wasn't hankering after the job for years like a lot of the others and probably just wanted to be Speaker. Hope he wins at the next election.
I'd say he'll have a fair chance honestly. If he can grill Trudeau in the house of commons and is a decent campaigner that's all it should take.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 28, 2017, 01:46:11 pm
he's pretty genuine from what I can see.

Politicians are never genuine
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on May 28, 2017, 02:22:51 pm
June you do occasionally say things that I can respect, but when you start criticising people based on their use of a second language you lose all credibility and just come across as an asshole.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 28, 2017, 03:12:16 pm
Scheer comes across as a really nice guy, none of this fake shit Trudeau does either, he's pretty genuine from what I can see. He also wasn't hankering after the job for years like a lot of the others and probably just wanted to be Speaker. Hope he wins at the next election.
I'd say he'll have a fair chance honestly. If he can grill Trudeau in the house of commons and is a decent campaigner that's all it should take.

I read up a little on his Wikipedia page (I know great source) but according to the page he wants to remove the carbon tax. So is he one of those cuckservatives who don't believe in global warming?

If that is the case then that would make him a terrible candidate on it's own.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on May 28, 2017, 05:25:10 pm
June you do occasionally say things that I can respect, but when you start criticising people based on their use of a second language you lose all credibility and just come across as an asshole.

1) I didn't realize it was Furrnox/a swede when I first posted it

2) I'm sorry but when you make 2 rudimentary grammar/spelling errors in a one sentence comment calling someone else stupid you're just asking for it
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 28, 2017, 05:41:11 pm
Scheer comes across as a really nice guy, none of this fake shit Trudeau does either, he's pretty genuine from what I can see. He also wasn't hankering after the job for years like a lot of the others and probably just wanted to be Speaker. Hope he wins at the next election.
I'd say he'll have a fair chance honestly. If he can grill Trudeau in the house of commons and is a decent campaigner that's all it should take.

I read up a little on his Wikipedia page (I know great source) but according to the page he wants to remove the carbon tax. So is he one of those cuckservatives who don't believe in global warming?

If that is the case then that would make him a terrible candidate on it's own.
Mfw Canada's emissions were already meeting clean standards before we introduced a carbon tax but apparently introducing more useless taxes means we want to destroy the environment
You're really a headline warrior Furrnox
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 28, 2017, 07:36:08 pm
Scheer comes across as a really nice guy, none of this fake shit Trudeau does either, he's pretty genuine from what I can see. He also wasn't hankering after the job for years like a lot of the others and probably just wanted to be Speaker. Hope he wins at the next election.
I'd say he'll have a fair chance honestly. If he can grill Trudeau in the house of commons and is a decent campaigner that's all it should take.

I read up a little on his Wikipedia page (I know great source) but according to the page he wants to remove the carbon tax. So is he one of those cuckservatives who don't believe in global warming?

If that is the case then that would make him a terrible candidate on it's own.
Furrnox, its not that he doesn't believe in global warming. Its that the carbon tax is pointless and just ramps up the price on everything for almost no environmental benefit. The extra 2000$ it may cost some people will be hard on poor families or people with only minimum wage jobs. And if you live in Canada (it being very big) you need to travel quite a bit so its not even going to stop people from using cars because no one is biking 2 hours to pickup groceries. We're around number 10 in terms of Greenhouse emissions. Even if the tax did drop our emissions it wouldn't make a dent in the grand scheme of things.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 28, 2017, 07:37:27 pm
Scheer comes across as a really nice guy, none of this fake shit Trudeau does either, he's pretty genuine from what I can see. He also wasn't hankering after the job for years like a lot of the others and probably just wanted to be Speaker. Hope he wins at the next election.
I'd say he'll have a fair chance honestly. If he can grill Trudeau in the house of commons and is a decent campaigner that's all it should take.

I read up a little on his Wikipedia page (I know great source) but according to the page he wants to remove the carbon tax. So is he one of those cuckservatives who don't believe in global warming?

If that is the case then that would make him a terrible candidate on it's own.
Furrnox, its not that he doesn't believe in global warming. Its that the carbon tax is pointless and just ramps up the price on everything for almost no environmental benefit. The extra 2000$ it may cost some people will be hard on poor families or people with only minimum wage jobs. And if you live in Canada (it being very big) you need to travel quite a bit so its not even going to stop people from using cars because no one is biking 2 hours to pickup groceries. We're around number 10 in terms of Greenhouse emissions. Even if the tax did drop our emissions it wouldn't make a dent in the grand scheme of things.

To be fair a Canadian carbon tax would do wonders for job creation...in the US.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 28, 2017, 07:42:38 pm
This is fucking beautiful.
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLdEYw3ginA
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 28, 2017, 07:53:41 pm
"I'm just here so I don't get fined" - Justin Trudeau, 2017
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 28, 2017, 09:07:17 pm
Scheer comes across as a really nice guy, none of this fake shit Trudeau does either, he's pretty genuine from what I can see. He also wasn't hankering after the job for years like a lot of the others and probably just wanted to be Speaker. Hope he wins at the next election.
I'd say he'll have a fair chance honestly. If he can grill Trudeau in the house of commons and is a decent campaigner that's all it should take.

I read up a little on his Wikipedia page (I know great source) but according to the page he wants to remove the carbon tax. So is he one of those cuckservatives who don't believe in global warming?

If that is the case then that would make him a terrible candidate on it's own.
Furrnox, its not that he doesn't believe in global warming. Its that the carbon tax is pointless and just ramps up the price on everything for almost no environmental benefit. The extra 2000$ it may cost some people will be hard on poor families or people with only minimum wage jobs. And if you live in Canada (it being very big) you need to travel quite a bit so its not even going to stop people from using cars because no one is biking 2 hours to pickup groceries. We're around number 10 in terms of Greenhouse emissions. Even if the tax did drop our emissions it wouldn't make a dent in the grand scheme of things.

It gives an incentive for people to get green cars I realize that carbon tax is a complicated issue so I won't go any further.
I think it's funny that 2 billion out of the 5 the tax makes is put into repairing/building roads.

This is fucking beautiful.
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLdEYw3ginA
[close]

I saw that the other day, pretty bad.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 29, 2017, 12:30:05 am
Watching the NDP debate they actually got some decent people. Charlie Angus is ok but Pat Stogran is actually interesting me. Retired army Col, not the best spoken but by far the most likable and the one who could actually rally voters. He doesn't seem to go along with all the bullshit that Ashton and Signh get on with.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on May 29, 2017, 12:53:51 am
Here's for your carbon tax...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtN5njDZjVM
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 29, 2017, 03:23:22 pm
Always the sentimental sob-stories about someone somewhere who can't afford this or that any longer because of this and that law that is introduced.


SKip the grandstanding and make a fucking point already.

I do agree that carbon tax is a useless meme to look like you're doing something. Much more can be made on putting more rules on industry. But oh Gawd we're so scared to that because uh mah moneyz if they leave. It's bullshit. Large companies really don't like to move and especially the industry in the West is there for a good reason. If Western countries en bloc would up environmental standards (like is possible in the EU, as done with ship emissions in the North Sea), you'll gain much more. Putting extra strain on the consumer won't achieve any respectable gain for the environment.

It's like here in the NL. Government (the Green Party) to impose tax on the kilo's of garbage people throw away. Let alone the impossibility to achieve it pratically, consumers only provide for 15% of national garbage. A whopping 70-something-% is (mostly burned) by industry. Yet politicians see no gain in imposing even minor rules on them, which would barely cost more but save roughly 20% in junk sent to the ovens.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on May 29, 2017, 07:25:38 pm
I can't speak for European countries, but our laws and regulations at the federal level in Canada (and Provincial) and the US are a complete mess. The problem is simple; everyone wants a law/regulation. x group wants a new law for their region, x groups wants a law on airports in theirs, x group wants laws to protect y group(s), x group wants speed limit changes on y highway, x group wants y regulations on z industry, x group wants mandatory sentencing for gun crime, x group wants them for gun crimes involving a robbery, x group wants mandatory minimums for street racing, x group wants mandatory minimums for reckless driving killing pedestrians, x group wants mandatory minimums for running over a pedestrian at a crosswalk near a school between the hours of 8am and 3pm, etc. etc. Everyone wants a law and politicians have been all too happy to give them as:

A) It looks good on them
and
B) Its a lot easier to add laws than it is to remove old ones.

As a result our Criminal Code, federal regulations/laws, provincial statutes, etc. are an absolute mess (and especially business regulations in the US, which having been built up in layer after layer after layer of red-tape and regulations are a nightmare to process, especially for small businesses) in dire need of some housekeeping. But no one is willing to do it because:

A) It would be a massive undertaking to clean up the Criminal Code for example
and
B) It would have little political value in terms of gaining votes (and would likely have negative impact cause anything even remotely perceived to be taking laws away which x group supports would result in outcry, even if it was simply being consolidated)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 29, 2017, 09:40:14 pm
Put in a commission, let them do the work. Take their findings to the house 1:1 and spin it in the media as if you've saved the country.

Riddlez has a solution for all.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Norwegian13 on May 30, 2017, 12:23:15 am
Trump met with world leaders at the NATO headquarters today, hilarity ensued:

Very short videos of the highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWISsAanWWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WqJkWntgSg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH5XeHaEEaY
[close]

This man Trump is the biggest meme to ever touch the earth. That fucking NATO diss had me lmfao!!! and the fucking Montenegro guy getting pushed to the side honestly had me on the floor rofling!!!

And Montenegro who just joined NATO... I'm sure they're regretting it already hahah
I don't think you regret joining a military alliance with half of Europe and the only superpower remaining because your head of state gets moved aside at a conference by the US President. Where's the logic there???

It was a joke :P
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 30, 2017, 12:43:55 am
Trump met with world leaders at the NATO headquarters today, hilarity ensued:

Very short videos of the highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWISsAanWWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WqJkWntgSg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH5XeHaEEaY
[close]

This man Trump is the biggest meme to ever touch the earth. That fucking NATO diss had me lmfao!!! and the fucking Montenegro guy getting pushed to the side honestly had me on the floor rofling!!!

And Montenegro who just joined NATO... I'm sure they're regretting it already hahah
I don't think you regret joining a military alliance with half of Europe and the only superpower remaining because your head of state gets moved aside at a conference by the US President. Where's the logic there???

It was a joke :P
Oh
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on May 30, 2017, 01:09:49 am
My god people were mocking Trump for his signature but take a look at Merkel's... and wtf is Juncker's even?


Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.4cdn.org%2Fpol%2F1496085788947.jpg&hash=6e5b43504a985a39f773b158a2cd9ca35dce30ed)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 30, 2017, 01:15:20 am
My god people were mocking Trump for his signature but take a look at Merkel's... and wtf is Juncker's even?


Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.4cdn.org%2Fpol%2F1496085788947.jpg&hash=6e5b43504a985a39f773b158a2cd9ca35dce30ed)
[close]

Looks like Shinzō Abe had to do a bit of maths while signing  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 31, 2017, 12:00:49 am
Merkel's isn't even that bad. Drunkard Juncker's though is pretty awful.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on May 31, 2017, 03:06:05 pm
Trump pulled back from the Paris Agreement.

Way to go.

Well it's still better than uf they'd stayed in. Tney'd have delayed everything and caused nothing but trouble.

The sheer meme this guy is, though. Calling accelerated global warming a 'fairy tale'.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 31, 2017, 03:13:00 pm
Trump pulled back from the Paris Agreement.

Way to go.

Well it's still better than uf they'd stayed in. Tney'd have delayed everything and caused nothing but trouble.

The sheer meme this guy is, though. Calling accelerated global warming a 'fairy tale'.
No warming in 10 years.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 31, 2017, 05:00:02 pm
Theodin yes let's just go against all scientific evidence.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on May 31, 2017, 05:30:31 pm
Not gonna bite (for once).
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 31, 2017, 05:33:00 pm
Than I won't too! Look how easy that was
Theodin yes let's just go against all scientific evidence.
Nice try tho
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on May 31, 2017, 07:14:30 pm
Trump pulled back from the Paris Agreement.

Way to go.

Well it's still better than uf they'd stayed in. Tney'd have delayed everything and caused nothing but trouble.

The sheer meme this guy is, though. Calling accelerated global warming a 'fairy tale'.

Great. The only thing melting would've been Trump's budget otherwise.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on May 31, 2017, 07:30:25 pm
Than I won't too! Look how easy that was
Theodin yes let's just go against all scientific evidence.
Nice try tho

Blindly defending someone and ignoring facts. What's your IQ Theo?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: LiquidSkorpion on May 31, 2017, 08:13:59 pm
Than I won't too! Look how easy that was
Theodin yes let's just go against all scientific evidence.
Nice try tho

Blindly defending someone and ignoring facts. What's your IQ Theo?
Well, it's not blindly. And I dont see any facts that have been posted on this thread.

And his IQ is probably higher than yours. He did get CR afterall.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on May 31, 2017, 08:21:18 pm
Climate change is a myth created by the Chinese in order to make America less competitive
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on May 31, 2017, 09:09:51 pm
Climate change is a myth created by the Chinese in order to make America less competitive
:/
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 31, 2017, 10:40:42 pm
Than I won't too! Look how easy that was
Theodin yes let's just go against all scientific evidence.
Nice try tho

Blindly defending someone and ignoring facts. What's your IQ Theo?
Well, it's not blindly. And I dont see any facts that have been posted on this thread.

And his IQ is probably higher than yours. He did get CR afterall.

CR means jack shit.

The overwhelming majority of scientists agree that global warming is real. So I don't see why we would need to post any evidence when it's clearly accepted science.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on May 31, 2017, 10:51:19 pm
Than I won't too! Look how easy that was
Theodin yes let's just go against all scientific evidence.
Nice try tho

Blindly defending someone and ignoring facts. What's your IQ Theo?
Well, it's not blindly. And I dont see any facts that have been posted on this thread.

And his IQ is probably higher than yours. He did get CR afterall.

CR means jack shit.

People who deny global warming are science deniers.
I believe in climate change, but calling them science deniers is outright wrong and completely different from what your post used to say.
Global warming is natural, and the only thing that I've seen to be true is that with the oceans heating up it releases more carbon dioxide into the air, but other than that we're not doing that much. Almost everyone believes in science, and I'm sure Theodin does too, so before you just go out and generalize everyone, you should probably say something that doesn't make you look like an idiot. The equivilant to what you just said is "People who don't eat meat condemn food production."
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 31, 2017, 10:53:24 pm
Hey look, generalization and knee jerk reactions. I'm for sure going to explain when you lead off with those! Lol
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 31, 2017, 10:55:58 pm
Than I won't too! Look how easy that was
Theodin yes let's just go against all scientific evidence.
Nice try tho

Blindly defending someone and ignoring facts. What's your IQ Theo?
Well, it's not blindly. And I dont see any facts that have been posted on this thread.

And his IQ is probably higher than yours. He did get CR afterall.

CR means jack shit.

The overwhelming majority of scientists agree that global warming is real. So I don't see why we would need to post any evidence when it's clearly accepted science.
I believe in climate change, but calling them science deniers is outright wrong and completely different from what your post used to say.
Global warming is natural, and the only thing that I've seen to be true is that with the oceans heating up it releases more carbon dioxide into the air, but other than that we're not doing that much. Almost everyone believes in science, and I'm sure Theodin does too, so before you just go out and generalize everyone, you should probably say something that doesn't make you look like an idiot. The equivilant to what you just said is "People who don't eat meat condemn food production."

You can't say that you believe in science and then disagree with bits and pieces because it doesn't suit your agenda.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on May 31, 2017, 11:06:44 pm
Than I won't too! Look how easy that was
Theodin yes let's just go against all scientific evidence.
Nice try tho

Blindly defending someone and ignoring facts. What's your IQ Theo?
Well, it's not blindly. And I dont see any facts that have been posted on this thread.

And his IQ is probably higher than yours. He did get CR afterall.

You are clearly joking. At least I hope so...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 01, 2017, 12:00:51 am
Have you decided upon a final edit, Furrnox?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 01, 2017, 12:01:51 am
Congratulations Marceaux, you've rustled all 130 of my jimmies.

First of all, saying that the earth hasn't warmed in 14 years isn't me being an uninformed dingus - it's a paraphrase of the IPCC's 5th assesment report's findings on warming, which were confirmed by basically everyone in saying that the earth's average temperature has not gone up since late 1990's - here's a good article from The Economist explaining the hiatus: http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21598610-slowdown-rising-temperatures-over-past-15-years-goes-being

Now, you talk about consensus. It's always thrown around that there's a huge consensus among the science community that global warming is anthropogenic and humans, mostly in the form of C02 emissions, are the cause. As Politifact says, it's a lot broader than that:
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/5debac155892facf0c1c107c439747ef.png)
[close]
From the limited means we have to survey world temperature, we can say with relative confidence two things: that A) the earth is warming and B) human activity does cause warming. Climate skeptics do not disagree with this statement - why challenge basic data?
good forbes article
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexepstein/2015/01/06/97-of-climate-scientists-agree-is-100-wrong/#7fa552423f9f
[close]
politifact article
http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2016/apr/04/don-beyer/don-beyer-says-97-percent-scientists-believe-human/
[close]

What climate skeptics challenge is the effect this will have on society, how accurately we can model climate changes, and whether treaties like Paris and Kyoto will be effective for the environment and for the economy. A perfect example of this is the Green Energy Act in Ontario, which crippled our energy infrastructure, drove away industry, made Ontarians at times pay triple the cost they used to pay to give subsidies to energy providers that only provide 2 percent of their total power, and put the province in immeasurable debt. Climate skeptics think we shouldn't bankrupt overselves on the altar of questionable climate models. Here's a good article that you should read on this topic:
if you say national review is a poor source without reading the article i'm banning you
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447215/climate-change-activists-science-deniers-environmentalism-public-policy
[close]

But I'm just a stupid science denier.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on June 01, 2017, 12:08:12 am
Until the U.S and China start cutting back on climate emissions then other countries really don't effect much. Its good to help give intensive towards more sustainable things that hurt the environment less, but its not worth crippling a country all together for it. No doubt nature plays a part in climate change, but I find it hard to believe that humans don't play the larger part in it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 01, 2017, 12:34:50 am
That global warming have stagnated is great but that doesn't mean we should go back to no regulations and pumping out as much CO2 & CH4 as we want as Trump suggests.
We should continue to look for renewable and envioromental friendly alternatives to prepare for the future.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 01, 2017, 12:37:42 am
That global warming have stagnated is great but that doesn't mean we should go back to no regulations and pumping out as much CO2 & CH4 as we want as Trump suggests.
We should continue to look for renewable and envioromental friendly alternatives to prepare for the future.
Not what I said.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 01, 2017, 12:46:23 am
I know what you said and I agree that the 97% argument have been missused.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 01, 2017, 12:54:28 am
amazin
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on June 01, 2017, 01:42:43 am
97% of scientists say that national review is a poor source.
Deny that, bitch.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 01, 2017, 02:27:20 am
97% of scientists say that national review is a poor source.
Deny that, bitch.
Damn.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 01, 2017, 03:30:45 am
Than I won't too! Look how easy that was
Theodin yes let's just go against all scientific evidence.
Nice try tho

Blindly defending someone and ignoring facts. What's your IQ Theo?

Well Theodin just provided both, now where are your alternative facts marceaux? We are waiting tic tic

I expect big things from someone who must have such a high IQ as yours.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: |Viper| on June 01, 2017, 05:16:26 am
I finnaly see where all the cool kids hang out I guess I'm one now!!  8)

jk I'm a fatty help
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 01, 2017, 05:46:54 am
Than I won't too! Look how easy that was
Theodin yes let's just go against all scientific evidence.
Nice try tho

Blindly defending someone and ignoring facts. What's your IQ Theo?

Well Theodin just provided both, now where are your alternative facts marceaux? We are waiting tic tic

I expect big things from someone who must have such a high IQ as yours.

My job is done here. ;)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: |Viper| on June 01, 2017, 05:58:14 am
Guys come on stop getting at each other even though I'm known for starting a lot of shit in my past. Lets all please enjoy this amazing game while it lasts, there is no need to be fighting over some IQ bullshit when it has nothing to do with really anything... I really hope we can just get over this and move on and I know for a 100% fact after I post this comment I'm gonna get shat on by a lot of people, but please lets just enjoy each other and have fun. I'm not respected by the NW Community but lets please drop it thanks. 
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on June 01, 2017, 06:04:35 am
Guys come on stop getting at each other even though I'm know for starting a lot of shit in my past. Lets all please enjoy this amazing game while it lasts, there is no need to be fighting over some IQ bullshit when it has nothing to do with really anything... I really hope we can just get over this and move on and I know for a 100% fact after I post this comment I'm gonna get shat on by a lot of people, but please lets just enjoy each other and have fun. I'm not respected by the NW Community but lets please drop it thanks.
You're clearly new around here. This is the politics thread, and this thread is meant for stuff like this. Just because you want to stick up for your reg leader's perverted sense of "higher IQ" and his upper intelligence when realistically he's failed to prove anything to this forum.

Now, hopefully leftist globalism doesn't destroy Europe before its too late. Continue standing strong Poland, and your friends in Eastern Europe! Don't let refugees in if you don't want them!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: |Viper| on June 01, 2017, 06:07:34 am
Guys come on stop getting at each other even though I'm know for starting a lot of shit in my past. Lets all please enjoy this amazing game while it lasts, there is no need to be fighting over some IQ bullshit when it has nothing to do with really anything... I really hope we can just get over this and move on and I know for a 100% fact after I post this comment I'm gonna get shat on by a lot of people, but please lets just enjoy each other and have fun. I'm not respected by the NW Community but lets please drop it thanks.
You're clearly new around here. This is the politics thread, and this thread is meant for stuff like this. Just because you want to stick up for your reg leader's perverted sense of "higher IQ" and his upper intelligence when realistically he's failed to prove anything to this forum.

Now, hopefully leftist globalism doesn't destroy Europe before its too late. Continue standing strong Poland, and your friends in Eastern Europe! Don't let refugees in if you don't want them!
Jake I'm not new around here no offense but ive been in this game longer than you. I'm just saying the kind of things said between Marc and other players... Needs to end. Also I never was sticking up for anyone wherever you got that from I'm just saying it probs needs to be dropped. I'm done now dad
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: LiquidSkorpion on June 01, 2017, 06:28:10 am
Guys come on stop getting at each other even though I'm know for starting a lot of shit in my past. Lets all please enjoy this amazing game while it lasts, there is no need to be fighting over some IQ bullshit when it has nothing to do with really anything... I really hope we can just get over this and move on and I know for a 100% fact after I post this comment I'm gonna get shat on by a lot of people, but please lets just enjoy each other and have fun. I'm not respected by the NW Community but lets please drop it thanks.
You're clearly new around here. This is the politics thread, and this thread is meant for stuff like this. Just because you want to stick up for your reg leader's perverted sense of "higher IQ" and his upper intelligence when realistically he's failed to prove anything to this forum.

Now, hopefully leftist globalism doesn't destroy Europe before its too late. Continue standing strong Poland, and your friends in Eastern Europe! Don't let refugees in if you don't want them!
Jake I'm not new around here no offense but ive been in this game longer than you. I'm just saying the kind of things said between Marc and other players... Needs to end. Also I never was sticking up for anyone wherever you got that from I'm just saying it probs needs to be dropped. I'm done now dad
LOL

But seriously, this thread is for actual talk, not the senseless banter which you are known for. Keep your shit off of it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: |Viper| on June 01, 2017, 07:00:22 am
Guys come on stop getting at each other even though I'm know for starting a lot of shit in my past. Lets all please enjoy this amazing game while it lasts, there is no need to be fighting over some IQ bullshit when it has nothing to do with really anything... I really hope we can just get over this and move on and I know for a 100% fact after I post this comment I'm gonna get shat on by a lot of people, but please lets just enjoy each other and have fun. I'm not respected by the NW Community but lets please drop it thanks.
You're clearly new around here. This is the politics thread, and this thread is meant for stuff like this. Just because you want to stick up for your reg leader's perverted sense of "higher IQ" and his upper intelligence when realistically he's failed to prove anything to this forum.

Now, hopefully leftist globalism doesn't destroy Europe before its too late. Continue standing strong Poland, and your friends in Eastern Europe! Don't let refugees in if you don't want them!
Jake I'm not new around here no offense but ive been in this game longer than you. I'm just saying the kind of things said between Marc and other players... Needs to end. Also I never was sticking up for anyone wherever you got that from I'm just saying it probs needs to be dropped. I'm done now dad
LOL

But seriously, this thread is for actual talk, not the senseless banter which you are known for. Keep your shit off of it.
Excuse yourself I didn't cause jack kiddo it was my Colonel and you talking about IQ LOOOOOL yeah shut the fuck up I'm just trying to make this a fun community and place to be around. Unlike you being a regular shit hole to everyone acting like you're a know it all or a someone and you always get in peoples business shut up. And the "Keep your shit off of it" motherfucker what are you gonna do about it you're a joke to me right now what could you POSSIBLY do lmao
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 01, 2017, 07:21:32 am
Lets keep on topic
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on June 01, 2017, 07:22:39 am
21e has never been very good at coming out on top on forum banter. Just stop before you get btfo some more.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: |Viper| on June 01, 2017, 07:25:07 am
Ok sorry for everything it wont happen again.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on June 01, 2017, 08:08:05 am
S'all good
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 01, 2017, 12:09:11 pm
Funny thing is... Even if you don't believe in global warming (of which there are far more sceptics than climate change) or climate change in general, you'd have to be a complete science denier to say humanity isn't destroying this planet.

I mean, everything that causes climate change is also doing something else to harm this planet (acidifying ocean as an example).
Even if you don't believe in that, renewable energy is a must since we're not going to last much longer on carbon-based fuel from fossil sources.

And if you deny that.... Well you're either overoptimistic about space travel or you should start primary school.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on June 01, 2017, 03:28:47 pm
There is a difference between "Change is needed" and "IF WE DON'T CHANGE RIGHT NOW WE ARE LITERALLY ALL GOING TO DIE AHHHHHHH. QUICK, LETS ALL PAY TRIPLE FOR ENERGY RIGHT THIS SECOND.". Exaggerating the situation by saying we are "destroying the planet" makes the situation seem alot more dire than it really is, and calling everyone who disagrees with you "science deniers" and insulting them just makes you look like a real negative covfefe tbh.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 01, 2017, 05:43:05 pm
The situation is quite dire to be honest. It may look liek it isn't because the margin is usually larger than 50 years in which things will go awry seriously.
THe problem is that not a lot can change in 50 years.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 01, 2017, 05:44:40 pm
I do not need to prove a point when your idiotic arguments make the point for me. I could type out 10 pages of reasoning but no matter how much i type or whatever facts/evidence i provide it wont magically cure your retardation and make your brain start working properly.


Funny thing is... Even if you don't believe in global warming (of which there are far more sceptics than climate change) or climate change in general, you'd have to be a complete science denier to say humanity isn't destroying this planet.

I mean, everything that causes climate change is also doing something else to harm this planet (acidifying ocean as an example).
Even if you don't believe in that, renewable energy is a must since we're not going to last much longer on carbon-based fuel from fossil sources.

And if you deny that.... Well you're either overoptimistic about space travel or you should start primary school.

^ This
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on June 01, 2017, 05:51:37 pm
Eh I'll probably kill myself before I have to actually worry about climate change
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 01, 2017, 05:58:14 pm
Perhaps but if you'll ever consider getting children then this topic should be very important to you.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 01, 2017, 05:58:29 pm
I think we have more pressing matters to direct funding to. Currently, the cost is greater than the reward in regards to how much it costs to set up renewable energy sources, and how much energy those sources actually yield.

That and the fact that Europe isn't going to save the world without some cooperation from the east, which only a fool would believe is going to happen anytime soon.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 01, 2017, 06:08:17 pm
I think the main current issue is that Trump wants to ignore climate change & renewable energy altogether and go back to "clean coal".
Even going as far as to cut almost all government research on the subject.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on June 01, 2017, 06:39:51 pm
I do not need to prove a point when your idiotic arguments make the point for me. I could type out 10 pages of reasoning but no matter how much i type or whatever facts/evidence i provide it wont magically cure your retardation and make your brain start working properly.

Shut up, you literally think Paladins is better than Overwatch. Everything that comes out of your mouth is nonsense. Please make an argument so you can get thrashed.

I think the main current issue is that Trump wants to ignore climate change & renewable energy altogether and go back to "clean coal".
Even going as far as to cut almost all government research on the subject.

Taking the focus away from climate change & renewable energy =/= ignoring it. It just is not one of his top concerns, nor should it be.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 01, 2017, 07:00:05 pm
I do not need to prove a point when your idiotic arguments make the point for me. I could type out 10 pages of reasoning but no matter how much i type or whatever facts/evidence i provide it wont magically cure your retardation and make your brain start working properly.

Shut up, you literally think Paladins is better than Overwatch. Everything that comes out of your mouth is nonsense. Please make an argument so you can get thrashed.

I think the main current issue is that Trump wants to ignore climate change & renewable energy altogether and go back to "clean coal".
Even going as far as to cut almost all government research on the subject.

Taking the focus away from climate change & renewable energy =/= ignoring it. It just is not one of his top concerns, nor should it be.

Ap0c why are you always so angry?
(https://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-it-s-just-little-man-syndrome.png)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on June 01, 2017, 07:06:52 pm
Stop. Literally every-time you post I can literally visual you frothing at the mouth. You can call it little man syndrome, but the only little man here is you. Anytime someone tells you the truth about how you (and for the most part, your whole regiment) are trash at NW, you throw out pages of rants clawing at whatever small achievements you managed to scrap together. I alone have probably accomplished more than your whole regiment, and that is pretty sad.

Please, you are gonna have to do better than that my boy.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 01, 2017, 07:07:28 pm
Please stop instigating here Marceaux. Please let us keep this thread open, it's a new record.
Personally, I think in Western countries coal should be gradually phased out or diminished in favor of Nuclear. Solar, wind and hydro are all way too inefficient at this technological stage, and why destroy the energy industry for unclear environmental reward? The question of nuclear waste removal remains but I think it's better to try to solve that than to A) lay off thousands of workers at power plants or B) dump money we don't have into wasted green energy schemes.
Besides, air and water quality in North America at least is cleaner than it's been in decades. Why panic?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 01, 2017, 07:09:36 pm
Stop. Literally every-time you post I can literally visual you frothing at the mouth. You can call it little man syndrome, but the only little man here is you. Anytime someone tells you the truth about how you (and for the most part, your whole regiment) are trash at NW, you throw out pages of rants clawing at whatever small achievements you managed to scrap together. I alone have probably accomplished more than your whole regiment, and that is pretty sad.

Please, you are gonna have to do better than that my boy.

I am still better looking than you little man.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 01, 2017, 07:11:52 pm
Please take regimental fights off this thread, Marceaux and Apoc. Discuss politics or nothing at all.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: LiquidSkorpion on June 01, 2017, 07:12:28 pm
Hey! That's my CR!

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 01, 2017, 07:13:50 pm
Please take regimental fights off this thread, Marceaux and Apoc. Discuss politics or nothing at all.

Will do, sorry for the banter. :P
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on June 01, 2017, 11:31:04 pm
I do not need to prove a point when your idiotic arguments make the point for me. I could type out 10 pages of reasoning but no matter how much i type or whatever facts/evidence i provide it wont magically cure your retardation and make your brain start working properly.


Funny thing is... Even if you don't believe in global warming (of which there are far more sceptics than climate change) or climate change in general, you'd have to be a complete science denier to say humanity isn't destroying this planet.

I mean, everything that causes climate change is also doing something else to harm this planet (acidifying ocean as an example).
Even if you don't believe in that, renewable energy is a must since we're not going to last much longer on carbon-based fuel from fossil sources.

And if you deny that.... Well you're either overoptimistic about space travel or you should start primary school.

^ This
We're not running out of carbon based fuels, so I'm not quite sure what you're talking about there. We will be able to use oil and other fuels for a long time to come. And to point at the USA and Europe as the problems for climate change is unrealistic and really just childish, isn't it. The problem is that even with this Paris accord, with climate change efforts, that the big problems come from China and Russia. China will not hinder itself like the USA has for the past years in the name of the world, or the environment, so your best bet is to just adapt to the new climate. Russia and China are both guilty about lying on how much they're polluting, and it seems like the international community doesn't care about them, but when the U.S. puts serious strains on its economy for multiple years in an attempt to reduce a tiny amount of emissions, its ridiculous. Any progress the world tries to make is completely reversed by China alone, so until they change nothing will change. No, you cannot SJW your way into China and force them to change -- they won't. You can't ask them to save the planet, because they'll talk the talk and won't take any action. The US is acting in it's best interest for its own people by leaving the Paris accord, and if you think it's not for the best of America then you're just wrong.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 01, 2017, 11:49:45 pm
The problem is this, do you do what is better for the world or for your country. If no nation chooses the world then we all die eventually and no countries win.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 02, 2017, 01:06:19 am
The problem is this, do you do what is better for the world or for your country. If no nation chooses the world then we all die eventually and no countries win.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 02, 2017, 06:58:09 pm
I do not need to prove a point when your idiotic arguments make the point for me. I could type out 10 pages of reasoning but no matter how much i type or whatever facts/evidence i provide it wont magically cure your retardation and make your brain start working properly.


Funny thing is... Even if you don't believe in global warming (of which there are far more sceptics than climate change) or climate change in general, you'd have to be a complete science denier to say humanity isn't destroying this planet.

I mean, everything that causes climate change is also doing something else to harm this planet (acidifying ocean as an example).
Even if you don't believe in that, renewable energy is a must since we're not going to last much longer on carbon-based fuel from fossil sources.

And if you deny that.... Well you're either overoptimistic about space travel or you should start primary school.

^ This
We're not running out of carbon based fuels, so I'm not quite sure what you're talking about there. We will be able to use oil and other fuels for a long time to come. And to point at the USA and Europe as the problems for climate change is unrealistic and really just childish, isn't it. The problem is that even with this Paris accord, with climate change efforts, that the big problems come from China and Russia. China will not hinder itself like the USA has for the past years in the name of the world, or the environment, so your best bet is to just adapt to the new climate. Russia and China are both guilty about lying on how much they're polluting, and it seems like the international community doesn't care about them, but when the U.S. puts serious strains on its economy for multiple years in an attempt to reduce a tiny amount of emissions, its ridiculous. Any progress the world tries to make is completely reversed by China alone, so until they change nothing will change. No, you cannot SJW your way into China and force them to change -- they won't. You can't ask them to save the planet, because they'll talk the talk and won't take any action. The US is acting in it's best interest for its own people by leaving the Paris accord, and if you think it's not for the best of America then you're just wrong.

Except US puts out a whole lot more CO2 per capita than China, and China have also recently shown interest in further lowering their pollution by investing in renewable energy.

(Also let's not forget that China is part of the Paris accord.)


Sources
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/05/china-invest-renewable-fuel-2020-energy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 02, 2017, 10:31:13 pm
China sees the strategic relevance of investing in renewable energy. Something the Dutch military is only starting to grasp now... still a ways ahead of the rest of NATO though.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 02, 2017, 10:54:35 pm
China sees the strategic relevance of investing in renewable energy. Something the Dutch military is only starting to grasp now... still a ways ahead of the rest of NATO though.
? More like the Chinese are tired of their terrible air quality (http://www.popsci.com/why-is-smog-in-china-so-bad).
The best renewable energy source for strategic relevance is not solar, wind or hydro - it's nuclear, something the US has known since the 60's at least. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Naval_reactors)
Also, most of you live in the US. You should know your air quality has been steadily improving since 1990 - https://gispub.epa.gov/air/trendsreport/2016/
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 02, 2017, 10:56:40 pm
As far as I know nuclear isn't currently renewable.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 02, 2017, 11:02:13 pm
As far as I know nuclear isn't currently renewable.

But the point of renewables, as the name suggests, is to tackle the 'well what happens when we run out?' argument, but that won't happen for at the very, very least 70 years, and it's extremely likely we'll have renewable nuclear sources by then.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 02, 2017, 11:07:01 pm
You're most likely right.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 03, 2017, 04:14:56 pm
Still, nuclear will at least last a couple hundred more years.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on June 03, 2017, 06:13:45 pm
Nuclear energy is the way too go, and we don't have smog pollution on any scale close to China. There are so many nuclear plants on the east coast
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 03, 2017, 06:16:56 pm
Nuclear energy is the way too go, and we don't have smog pollution on any scale close to China. There are so many nuclear plants on the east coast

(https://www.ccair.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/LA-smog.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 03, 2017, 06:28:11 pm
"On any scale close to China"


Lol that's nothing Marceaux
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 03, 2017, 06:28:37 pm
One picture =/ evidence of a smog problem in the United States.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 03, 2017, 06:31:03 pm
Nuclear energy is the way too go, and we don't have smog pollution on any scale close to China. There are so many nuclear plants on the east coast

(https://www.ccair.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/LA-smog.jpg)


"On any scale close to China"


Lol that's nothing Marceaux


Beijing: "Hold my beer"
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1.ibtimes.com%2Fsites%2Fwww.ibtimes.com%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Flg%2Fpublic%2F2015%2F12%2F06%2Fbeijing-smog-alert.jpg&hash=3c5a85448679b9cd51c7fd8b92e3529f7a286979)

(https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2015/12/01/08/Beijing-Smog.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 03, 2017, 06:41:31 pm
"On any scale close to China"


Lol that's nothing Marceaux

Clearly its nothing close to China. But it is getting worse and this could happen in a variety of cities across the country if we do not switch to alternative energy sources and cleaner/healthier standards across the board.

Do you think its ok to continue bad trends until a problem arises? Why not be proactive and prevent it before it happens?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on June 03, 2017, 07:02:10 pm
Nuclear energy is the way too go, and we don't have smog pollution on any scale close to China. There are so many nuclear plants on the east coast

(https://www.ccair.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/LA-smog.jpg)
what city is that? LA? o that is LA

https://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operating/map-power-reactors.html (https://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operating/map-power-reactors.html)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 03, 2017, 07:02:20 pm
Hev you even been reading my posts on this thread?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 03, 2017, 07:11:59 pm
"On any scale close to China"


Lol that's nothing Marceaux

Clearly its nothing close to China. But it is getting worse and this could happen in a variety of cities across the country if we do not switch to alternative energy sources and cleaner/healthier standards across the board.

Do you think its ok to continue bad trends until a problem arises? Why not be proactive and prevent it before it happens?
False - https://gispub.epa.gov/air/trendsreport/2016/
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on June 03, 2017, 09:47:11 pm
wtf where are sloveian elections
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 03, 2017, 10:31:02 pm
"On any scale close to China"


Lol that's nothing Marceaux

Clearly its nothing close to China. But it is getting worse and this could happen in a variety of cities across the country if we do not switch to alternative energy sources and cleaner/healthier standards across the board.

Do you think its ok to continue bad trends until a problem arises? Why not be proactive and prevent it before it happens?
False - https://gispub.epa.gov/air/trendsreport/2016/

So you think the US is perfect and clean? Do you not think we can do better? Do you not believe change as a whole is necessary for the countries of the world to advance? I guess you prefer the barbaric world we have atm and are content with maintaining the idiocy that goes on across the globe.

I just fail to see your point of view completely, you constantly defend actions that will have harmful repercussions for every living creature on this planet. Are financial gains for the US that important to you as an individual human being?

I am genuinely not trying to argue with or trigger you i just do not see where you stand really.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 03, 2017, 10:39:18 pm
"On any scale close to China"


Lol that's nothing Marceaux

Clearly its nothing close to China. But it is getting worse and this could happen in a variety of cities across the country if we do not switch to alternative energy sources and cleaner/healthier standards across the board.

Do you think its ok to continue bad trends until a problem arises? Why not be proactive and prevent it before it happens?
False - https://gispub.epa.gov/air/trendsreport/2016/

So you think the US is perfect and clean? Do you not think we can do better? Do you not believe change as a whole is necessary for the countries of the world to advance? I guess you prefer the barbaric world we have atm and are content with maintaining the idiocy that goes on across the globe.

I just fail to see your point of view completely, you constantly defend actions that will have harmful repercussions for every living creature on this planet. Are financial gains for the US that important to you as an individual human being?

I am genuinely not trying to argue with or trigger you i just do not see where you stand really.
Let's break this down
Spoiler
So you think the US is perfect and clean? Do you not think we can do better? Do you not believe change as a whole is necessary for the countries of the world to advance? I guess you prefer the barbaric world we have atm and are content with maintaining the idiocy that goes on across the globe.
[close]
No country is perfect or clean. In fact, the poorer the country gets, the less clean it is, so I think we can do better through technological advancement and innovation, and if perfection isn't possible, at least we can get close. Idk what you mean by saying barbaric - what's barbaric to you that relates to pollution? Dung fires and burning sticks for heat because you can't afford energy? Or nuclear fuel that provides clean power that fuels the economy that drives innovation? I prefer the latter, thanks. I don't really think "change" should harm the economy if the economy drives change.

Spoiler
I just fail to see your point of view completely, you constantly defend actions that will have harmful repercussions for every living creature on this planet. Are financial gains for the US that important to you as an individual human being?
[close]
What am I defending? Trump getting out of the Paris agreement when the US didn't even ratify Kyoto but yet managed to reduce emissions at record levels? Or advocating caution in abandoning the energy sector? You're being overly dramatic - who is being killed by taking the US out of the Paris agreement? That is not a logical argument or connection in any sense of the word.

Spoiler
I am genuinely not trying to argue with or trigger you i just do not see where you stand really.
[close]
Well, that's what an argument looks like, but who am I to know, all I do is source statistics anyways
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on June 03, 2017, 10:53:56 pm
We all know that cars could use oxigen and hydrogen as fuel producing energy and water as result. Though inovation is kept secret since some people wanna sell oil. Electric cars are not the future they are autistic.

Even better personal cars should be banned and countries should have free public transport. This would really help at making earth clean.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 03, 2017, 11:02:30 pm
"On any scale close to China"


Lol that's nothing Marceaux

Clearly its nothing close to China. But it is getting worse and this could happen in a variety of cities across the country if we do not switch to alternative energy sources and cleaner/healthier standards across the board.

Do you think its ok to continue bad trends until a problem arises? Why not be proactive and prevent it before it happens?
False - https://gispub.epa.gov/air/trendsreport/2016/

So you think the US is perfect and clean? Do you not think we can do better? Do you not believe change as a whole is necessary for the countries of the world to advance? I guess you prefer the barbaric world we have atm and are content with maintaining the idiocy that goes on across the globe.

I just fail to see your point of view completely, you constantly defend actions that will have harmful repercussions for every living creature on this planet. Are financial gains for the US that important to you as an individual human being?

I am genuinely not trying to argue with or trigger you i just do not see where you stand really.
Let's break this down
Spoiler
So you think the US is perfect and clean? Do you not think we can do better? Do you not believe change as a whole is necessary for the countries of the world to advance? I guess you prefer the barbaric world we have atm and are content with maintaining the idiocy that goes on across the globe.
[close]
No country is perfect or clean. In fact, the poorer the country gets, the less clean it is, so I think we can do better through technological advancement and innovation, and if perfection isn't possible, at least we can get close. Idk what you mean by saying barbaric - what's barbaric to you that relates to pollution? Dung fires and burning sticks for heat because you can't afford energy? Or nuclear fuel that provides clean power that fuels the economy that drives innovation? I prefer the latter, thanks. I don't really think "change" should harm the economy if the economy drives change.

Spoiler
I just fail to see your point of view completely, you constantly defend actions that will have harmful repercussions for every living creature on this planet. Are financial gains for the US that important to you as an individual human being?
[close]
What am I defending? Trump getting out of the Paris agreement when the US didn't even ratify Kyoto but yet managed to reduce emissions at record levels? Or advocating caution in abandoning the energy sector? You're being overly dramatic - who is being killed by taking the US out of the Paris agreement? That is not a logical argument or connection in any sense of the word.

Spoiler
I am genuinely not trying to argue with or trigger you i just do not see where you stand really.
[close]
Well, that's what an argument looks like, but who am I to know, all I do is source statistics anyways

Firstly overall i am not being specific to the Paris agreement or energy. Although i feel strongly we should have went along with it.

I just see you deny things without putting your pov out there. So what is your suggestion then for environmental policies not only stateside but globally and the future of energy? Because it seems like you support every thing that comes out of Trump and his administration. And that is where i have a problem.

And you say i am dramatic but look at the leader of our nation and the dramatic actions he has taken and seemingly will continue to take. Do you think these actions genuinely benefit the US and better yet the World?

My point is much larger then what we are discussing presently (energy etc). Its just you imply that what the US is doing is right regardless of how it may affect people internationally. Seemingly only because you support our current leader whole heartily.

This is how you appear to me in your arguments. "My opinion is fact and no one or nothing has any argument against it. Because i heard this or i read that. Or Trump said this." You refuse to even consider the opposition or put thought behind it before you jump up to defend the things you think to be true. You seem unwilling to discuss and consider alternatives.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 03, 2017, 11:28:44 pm
Spoiler
"Firstly overall i am not being specific to the Paris agreement or energy. Although i feel strongly we should have went along with it."
[close]

Then what specifically are you talking about?

Spoiler
"I just see you deny things without putting your pov out there. So what is your suggestion then for environmental policies not only stateside but globally and the future of energy? Because it seems like you support every thing that comes out of Trump and his administration. And that is where i have a problem."
[close]

It doesn't seem you like you've read my previous posts. I'd also like to know where I said that I support everything that comes out of Trump and his administration. Otherwise you're putting words into my mouth.

Spoiler
"My opinion is fact and no one or nothing has any argument against it. Because i heard this or i read that. Or Trump said this." You refuse to even consider the opposition or put thought behind it before you jump up to defend the things you think to be true. You seem unwilling to discuss and consider alternatives."
[close]

All I have done is present facts. What are you refuting here? I don't understand - all I've done is show why you're wrong in saying the US has a damaged environment that's getting worse. What have I heard and what have I read? And where are you getting all this???? When did I quote Trump?????????????? What am I refusing to consider or discuss?????????????????????????
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 03, 2017, 11:58:30 pm
Spoiler
"Firstly overall i am not being specific to the Paris agreement or energy. Although i feel strongly we should have went along with it."
[close]

Then what specifically are you talking about?

Spoiler
"I just see you deny things without putting your pov out there. So what is your suggestion then for environmental policies not only stateside but globally and the future of energy? Because it seems like you support every thing that comes out of Trump and his administration. And that is where i have a problem."
[close]

It doesn't seem you like you've read my previous posts. I'd also like to know where I said that I support everything that comes out of Trump and his administration. Otherwise you're putting words into my mouth.

Spoiler
"My opinion is fact and no one or nothing has any argument against it. Because i heard this or i read that. Or Trump said this." You refuse to even consider the opposition or put thought behind it before you jump up to defend the things you think to be true. You seem unwilling to discuss and consider alternatives."
[close]

All I have done is present facts. What are you refuting here? I don't understand - all I've done is show why you're wrong in saying the US has a damaged environment that's getting worse. What have I heard and what have I read? And where are you getting all this???? When did I quote Trump?????????????? What am I refusing to consider or discuss?????????????????????????

You are denying with anything possible that the US is damaging its environment, which it is and will now be worse due to Trump having no care at all for the environment and protecting it "Clean Coal etc". And you are basing your opinion directly off the ideas and plans presented by Trump and have continued to defend those actions without giving any merit or credibility to the other sides concerns. Which is where my problem arises.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 04, 2017, 12:13:02 am
Spoiler
Spoiler
"Firstly overall i am not being specific to the Paris agreement or energy. Although i feel strongly we should have went along with it."
[close]

Then what specifically are you talking about?

Spoiler
"I just see you deny things without putting your pov out there. So what is your suggestion then for environmental policies not only stateside but globally and the future of energy? Because it seems like you support every thing that comes out of Trump and his administration. And that is where i have a problem."
[close]

It doesn't seem you like you've read my previous posts. I'd also like to know where I said that I support everything that comes out of Trump and his administration. Otherwise you're putting words into my mouth.

Spoiler
"My opinion is fact and no one or nothing has any argument against it. Because i heard this or i read that. Or Trump said this." You refuse to even consider the opposition or put thought behind it before you jump up to defend the things you think to be true. You seem unwilling to discuss and consider alternatives."
[close]

All I have done is present facts. What are you refuting here? I don't understand - all I've done is show why you're wrong in saying the US has a damaged environment that's getting worse. What have I heard and what have I read? And where are you getting all this???? When did I quote Trump?????????????? What am I refusing to consider or discuss?????????????????????????

You are denying with anything possible that the US is damaging its environment, which it is and will now be worse due to Trump having no care at all for the environment and protecting it "Clean Coal etc". And you are basing your opinion directly off the ideas and plans presented by Trump and have continued to defend those actions without giving any merit or credibility to the other sides concerns. Which is where my problem arises.
[close]
"You are denying with anything possible that the US is damaging its environment"

I'd like to know where I do that.

"which it is and will now be worse due to Trump having no care at all for the environment and protecting it "Clean Coal etc"."

You're ignoring the trends and statistics. I bet next year the emissions will continue to fall, as they have for the last 20 years.

"And you are basing your opinion directly off the ideas and plans presented by Trump"

I'd like to know where you see me do that

"have continued to defend those actions without giving any merit or credibility to the other sides concerns."

Why do I have to? You haven't presented any evidence to give me reason to
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 04, 2017, 12:32:21 am
Spoiler
Spoiler
"Firstly overall i am not being specific to the Paris agreement or energy. Although i feel strongly we should have went along with it."
[close]

Then what specifically are you talking about?

Spoiler
"I just see you deny things without putting your pov out there. So what is your suggestion then for environmental policies not only stateside but globally and the future of energy? Because it seems like you support every thing that comes out of Trump and his administration. And that is where i have a problem."
[close]

It doesn't seem you like you've read my previous posts. I'd also like to know where I said that I support everything that comes out of Trump and his administration. Otherwise you're putting words into my mouth.

Spoiler
"My opinion is fact and no one or nothing has any argument against it. Because i heard this or i read that. Or Trump said this." You refuse to even consider the opposition or put thought behind it before you jump up to defend the things you think to be true. You seem unwilling to discuss and consider alternatives."
[close]

All I have done is present facts. What are you refuting here? I don't understand - all I've done is show why you're wrong in saying the US has a damaged environment that's getting worse. What have I heard and what have I read? And where are you getting all this???? When did I quote Trump?????????????? What am I refusing to consider or discuss?????????????????????????

You are denying with anything possible that the US is damaging its environment, which it is and will now be worse due to Trump having no care at all for the environment and protecting it "Clean Coal etc". And you are basing your opinion directly off the ideas and plans presented by Trump and have continued to defend those actions without giving any merit or credibility to the other sides concerns. Which is where my problem arises.
[close]
"You are denying with anything possible that the US is damaging its environment"

I'd like to know where I do that.

"which it is and will now be worse due to Trump having no care at all for the environment and protecting it "Clean Coal etc"."

You're ignoring the trends and statistics. I bet next year the emissions will continue to fall, as they have for the last 20 years.

"And you are basing your opinion directly off the ideas and plans presented by Trump"

I'd like to know where you see me do that

"have continued to defend those actions without giving any merit or credibility to the other sides concerns."

Why do I have to? You haven't presented any evidence to give me reason to

You are denying global warming dude, i do not need to argue anything else.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 04, 2017, 12:34:55 am
Congratulations Marceaux, you've rustled all 130 of my jimmies.

First of all, saying that the earth hasn't warmed in 14 years isn't me being an uninformed dingus - it's a paraphrase of the IPCC's 5th assesment report's findings on warming, which were confirmed by basically everyone in saying that the earth's average temperature has not gone up since late 1990's - here's a good article from The Economist explaining the hiatus: http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21598610-slowdown-rising-temperatures-over-past-15-years-goes-being

Now, you talk about consensus. It's always thrown around that there's a huge consensus among the science community that global warming is anthropogenic and humans, mostly in the form of C02 emissions, are the cause. As Politifact says, it's a lot broader than that:
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/5debac155892facf0c1c107c439747ef.png)
[close]
From the limited means we have to survey world temperature, we can say with relative confidence two things: that A) the earth is warming and B) human activity does cause warming. Climate skeptics do not disagree with this statement - why challenge basic data?
good forbes article
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexepstein/2015/01/06/97-of-climate-scientists-agree-is-100-wrong/#7fa552423f9f
[close]
politifact article
http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2016/apr/04/don-beyer/don-beyer-says-97-percent-scientists-believe-human/
[close]

What climate skeptics challenge is the effect this will have on society, how accurately we can model climate changes, and whether treaties like Paris and Kyoto will be effective for the environment and for the economy. A perfect example of this is the Green Energy Act in Ontario, which crippled our energy infrastructure, drove away industry, made Ontarians at times pay triple the cost they used to pay to give subsidies to energy providers that only provide 2 percent of their total power, and put the province in immeasurable debt. Climate skeptics think we shouldn't bankrupt overselves on the altar of questionable climate models. Here's a good article that you should read on this topic:
if you say national review is a poor source without reading the article i'm banning you
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447215/climate-change-activists-science-deniers-environmentalism-public-policy
[close]

But I'm just a stupid science denier.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on June 04, 2017, 01:29:48 am
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Peppers on June 04, 2017, 02:51:45 am
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)
Spoiler
Rly makes you think (https://i.redditmedia.com/ABX2RSOfGDrl5XcdS5T-a9yGpJAputVI5kqr8o5jWvQ.jpg?w=490&s=046024523768d926fb8addef2f5306fa)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 04, 2017, 03:00:49 am
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)
Spoiler
Rly makes you think (https://i.redditmedia.com/ABX2RSOfGDrl5XcdS5T-a9yGpJAputVI5kqr8o5jWvQ.jpg?w=490&s=046024523768d926fb8addef2f5306fa)
[close]

Damn mooselims
(https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/mooslim_01.jpg?w=300&h=282)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on June 04, 2017, 03:42:08 am
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)
Is this really the time for an "I told you so"? No wonder no one likes you.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 04, 2017, 03:44:54 am
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)

Radical Islam is a threat in the middle east they don't scare me here.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/iraq-terrorism-isis-world/489974/
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 04, 2017, 03:55:27 am
Is this really the time for an "I told you so"? No wonder no one likes you.

In his defense this is probably going to become a weekly occurrence, so there's no "right" time to say it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Peppers on June 04, 2017, 04:38:18 am
Well it is Ramadan... so it's been at an increase due to "celebrations".
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 04, 2017, 04:40:45 am
Well it is Ramadan... so it's been at an increase due to "celebrations".

But who's counting...

(https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thereligionofpeace.com%2Fimages%2FRamadan-Bombathon-2017.jpg%3F3&hash=6dd464546886cdf128f18a7c6693ef49)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on June 04, 2017, 04:41:22 am
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)

Radical Islam is a threat in the middle east they don't scare me here.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/iraq-terrorism-isis-world/489974/
people actually read the Atlantic?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 04, 2017, 04:44:50 am
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)

Radical Islam is a threat in the middle east they don't scare me here.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/iraq-terrorism-isis-world/489974/

Not a threat in europe cause they havent managed to kill as many children yet so we should ignore it and wait until one plot succeeds in killing thousands. Bold strategy cotton lets see if it pays off.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Peppers on June 04, 2017, 04:47:27 am
I'm afraid it's too late  :-[
(https://theendofzion.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/rotherham-muslim-rape-gangs.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 04, 2017, 04:48:57 am
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)

Radical Islam is a threat in the middle east they don't scare me here.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/iraq-terrorism-isis-world/489974/

Not a threat in europe cause they havent managed to kill as many children yet so we should ignore it and wait until one plot succeeds in killing thousands. Bold strategy cotton lets see if it pays off.

More like I don't think they're a threat because they can't achieve anything but killing some people (which in itself is horrible of course) since they'll never be able to create a caliphate or topple a regime here.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 04, 2017, 04:51:03 am
Drop more MOABS plz.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 04, 2017, 04:51:33 am
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)

Radical Islam is a threat in the middle east they don't scare me here.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/iraq-terrorism-isis-world/489974/

Not a threat in europe cause they havent managed to kill as many children yet so we should ignore it and wait until one plot succeeds in killing thousands. Bold strategy cotton lets see if it pays off.

More like I don't think they're a threat because they can't achieve anything but killing some people (which in itself horrible of course) since they'll never be able to create a caliphate or topple a regieme here.

Get back to me in a few years when you swedes are a minority in your own country and thousands more women and children lie dead (hopefully not raped first) across the continent. Because lets be real, these attacks are only the beginning. They have finally realized that lone wolf/small group attacks are nigh impossible to detect in time and can be extremely effective. It only goes downhill from here.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Peppers on June 04, 2017, 04:54:14 am
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)

Radical Islam is a threat in the middle east they don't scare me here.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/iraq-terrorism-isis-world/489974/

Not a threat in europe cause they havent managed to kill as many children yet so we should ignore it and wait until one plot succeeds in killing thousands. Bold strategy cotton lets see if it pays off.

More like I don't think they're a threat because they can't achieve anything but killing some people (which in itself is horrible of course) since they'll never be able to create a caliphate or topple a regime here.

This video is really making me think it's coming sooner then later. This is in a public market no real police presence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A76DLK20L4o
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on June 04, 2017, 04:55:47 am
Theodin, thank you for preaching the good word and backing it up with facts. You're just proving the fact that some left wing nuts like Marceaux are unable to comprehend another perspective that contradicts theirs.
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)

Radical Islam is a threat in the middle east they don't scare me here.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/07/iraq-terrorism-isis-world/489974/

Well, when you're letting the middle east into your countries and doing nothing about it, maybe you will finally see that Radical Islam will be a problem in Europe if you leave your doors wide open like you are.

EDIT: Didn't see these other posts, but +1 to them, they're good. The problem is that NOW you say they can't topple any regimes, but wait until they are in your politics and make up large majorities, these super conservative Muslim sects will take over if you allow Muslims to have majorities.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on June 04, 2017, 04:59:50 am
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)
Is this really the time for an "I told you so"? No wonder no one likes you.
Well when certain people think it's a joke, it's obviously not.  Sorry if it offended you, and no one likes me? No offense my political ideologies probably align with mostly everyone I hate, they don't like me cause of NW reg stuff bruh
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 04, 2017, 05:00:58 am
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)
Is this really the time for an "I told you so"? No wonder no one likes you.
Well when certain people think it's a joke, it's obviously not.  Sorry if it offended you, and no one likes me? No offense my political ideologies probably align with mostly everyone I hate, they don't like me cause of NW reg stuff bruh
damn
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 04, 2017, 05:01:24 am
More like I don't think they're a threat because they can't achieve anything but killing some people (which in itself is horrible of course) since they'll never be able to create a caliphate or topple a regime here.

Haven't you given any thought to what's going to happen in the long run when a large percentage of the Swedish electorate are Muslim and hold significant political power over the country via your own democratic system?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 04, 2017, 05:01:39 am
Jake i bet your not even registered to vote yet kid. I am a republican you fucking moron. And Trump isn't even a true republican but you think my criticism of him makes me left wing. Another stupid Trump follower spotted.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 04, 2017, 05:02:18 am
Jake i bet your not even registered to vote yet kid. I am a republican you fucking moron. And Trump isn't even a true republican but you think my criticism of him makes me left wing.
Can we not lash out in anger when people critique you?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Peppers on June 04, 2017, 05:03:03 am
Jake i bet your not even registered to vote yet kid. I am a republican you fucking moron. And Trump isn't even a true republican but you think my criticism of him makes me left wing. Another stupid Trump follower spotted.
This is bait  ::) and I took it. AMA

Also, "everyone that disagrees with me is stupid" is your only arguement ever.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 04, 2017, 05:05:39 am
Jake i bet your not even registered to vote yet kid. I am a republican you fucking moron. And Trump isn't even a true republican but you think my criticism of him makes me left wing.
Can we not lash out in anger when people critique you?

"Left Wing Nut" ok criticism. Sure. Warn the person on the opposite end of your argument. Sure.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Peppers on June 04, 2017, 05:08:10 am
Jake i bet your not even registered to vote yet kid. I am a republican you fucking moron. And Trump isn't even a true republican but you think my criticism of him makes me left wing.
Can we not lash out in anger when people critique you?

"Left Wing Nut" ok criticism. Sure. Warn the person on the opposite end of your argument. Sure.

Gunna stop you right there. This entire forum has been "Warn the person on the opposite end of your argument" for us "right wing" folks around here. Might not wanna pick that argument here.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 04, 2017, 05:12:13 am
Jake i bet your not even registered to vote yet kid. I am a republican you fucking moron. And Trump isn't even a true republican but you think my criticism of him makes me left wing. Another stupid Trump follower spotted.
This is bait  ::) and I took it. AMA

Also, "everyone that disagrees with me is stupid" is your only arguement ever.

He even tried to call out theodin on his IQ but wasn't brave or maybe overconfident enough to also state his own.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 04, 2017, 05:17:06 am
Jake i bet your not even registered to vote yet kid. I am a republican you fucking moron. And Trump isn't even a true republican but you think my criticism of him makes me left wing.
Can we not lash out in anger when people critique you?

"Left Wing Nut" ok criticism. Sure. Warn the person on the opposite end of your argument. Sure.

Gunna stop you right there. This entire forum has been "Warn the person on the opposite end of your argument" for us "right wing" folks around here. Might not wanna pick that argument here.

Peppers i literally do not even know what you just said.

I guess you guys think the mass amount of republicans in office that also dont support Trump are "Left Wing Nuts".

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsSDbC5G0GE[/youtube]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Peppers on June 04, 2017, 05:19:50 am
"I'm going to make general statements The Post™." - Marceaux
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on June 04, 2017, 05:23:46 am
Marceaux, why the fuck would a Republic congressman oppose a sitting Republican President? They may dislike him secretly, but they want to face re-election in 2020 so they're not going against him until election season. Even then, opposition will be weak because Trump defeated a candidate that any other Republican would have failed against. You vote your party, not your beliefs.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 04, 2017, 05:24:05 am
"I'm going to make general statements The Post™." - Marceaux

How to post like Marceaux
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 04, 2017, 05:26:18 am
"I'm going to make general statements The Post™." - Marceaux

How to post like Marceaux
  • try to bait
  • insult intelligence of anyone who disagrees with you
  • get bitchslapped with stats and facts from theodin
  • Insult their intelligence again
  • make an intellectually smug statement with no evidence
  • change the subject
  • never actually respond to opponent's argument/stats
  • repeat

Not enough bait, but close.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 04, 2017, 05:29:17 am
Glad that's settled
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on June 04, 2017, 05:30:51 am
Marceaux, why do you call yourself a republican? What views of your actually are right leaning? You seem to favor the left a lot more when it comes to anything we've discussed.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on June 04, 2017, 05:32:41 am
Marceaux, why do you call yourself a republican? What views of your actually are right leaning? You seem to favor the left a lot more when it comes to anything we've discussed.
He doesn't like taxes and red's his favourite colour
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 04, 2017, 05:44:00 am
Marceaux, why do you call yourself a republican? What views of your actually are right leaning? You seem to favor the left a lot more when it comes to anything we've discussed.
He doesn't like taxes and red's his favourite colour

On my phone ATM, I'll post why later tonight.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 04, 2017, 05:54:24 am
Can't be Republican unless you have anti-muslim sentiment and don't care about renewable energy.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: |Viper| on June 04, 2017, 06:06:32 am
Marceaux, why do you call yourself a republican? What views of your actually are right leaning? You seem to favor the left a lot more when it comes to anything we've discussed.
Jake what are you Democratic or Republican out of curiosity?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 04, 2017, 06:12:44 am
Can't be Republican unless you have anti-muslim sentiment and don't care about renewable energy.
kek.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on June 04, 2017, 06:16:12 am
Marceaux, why do you call yourself a republican? What views of your actually are right leaning? You seem to favor the left a lot more when it comes to anything we've discussed.
Jake what are you Democratic or Republican out of curiosity?
I chose neither, and consider myself generally central with certain topics being right or left. For instance, women should have the choice on whether they have abortions or not.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: |Viper| on June 04, 2017, 06:47:07 am
Marceaux, why do you call yourself a republican? What views of your actually are right leaning? You seem to favor the left a lot more when it comes to anything we've discussed.
Jake what are you Democratic or Republican out of curiosity?
I chose neither, and consider myself generally central with certain topics being right or left. For instance, women should have the choice on whether they have abortions or not.
Let me be your abortion doctor please.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 04, 2017, 07:29:27 am
Marceaux, why do you call yourself a republican? What views of your actually are right leaning? You seem to favor the left a lot more when it comes to anything we've discussed.
Jake what are you Democratic or Republican out of curiosity?
I chose neither, and consider myself generally central with certain topics being right or left. For instance, women should have the choice on whether they have abortions or not.

I usually follow this scale where left-right is based on economics. (Left being more government involvement in economics and right being less government involvement in economics.)
Spoiler
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Political_chart.svg/543px-Political_chart.svg.png)
[close]

So generally Republicans are considered fairly far right & Democrats are considered centrists according to this scale.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on June 04, 2017, 07:33:57 am
Well to the far economic left would be 100% state run collectivism. The far economic right I imagine is an insanely free market. Being ok with capitalism would automatically drap the democrats closer to the middle, even if they're farther left.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 04, 2017, 07:38:43 am
Well yes and then you have Libertarian-Authoritarian which is based on civil rights.

That's why according to the politicalcompass.org which uses this scale puts me on the economic centre-left and very libertarian.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on June 04, 2017, 02:44:03 pm
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)
Yeah thanks for the attacks USA goverment. Bit suspicious there isn't any attacks in USA.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 04, 2017, 03:45:03 pm
Mine (and all trump supporters) according to r/politics:

(https://www.politicalcompass.org/charts/crowdchart?Junedragon=3.0%2C10.0&name=Adolf+Hitler&ec=3&soc=9)

Mine when I actually take it:

(https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=1.75&soc=-1.59)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 04, 2017, 05:09:24 pm
More London attacks.  A shame some Europeans (not all) still fail to address radical Islam as a real and actual threat.  Oh and I guess our travel alert was justified after all (since I last posted it lol)
Is this really the time for an "I told you so"? No wonder no one likes you.

(https://i.gyazo.com/4aa98490f4cdc252f0a911cdbc9756a9.png)

(Sorry I'm late)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on June 04, 2017, 08:14:49 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/hLuHCTn.png)
This... surprised me.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: LiquidSkorpion on June 04, 2017, 08:19:08 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/hLuHCTn.png)
This... surprised me.
My dot was directly in the middle with 1 line to the right..
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on June 04, 2017, 09:28:20 pm
Ahh good ol' political compass

Spoiler
(https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=-0.83&soc=-5.18)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on June 04, 2017, 09:39:17 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/gL1DspD.png)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 04, 2017, 10:26:58 pm
> Not being a Natcap  ::)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 04, 2017, 10:53:31 pm
like always
(https://i.gyazo.com/6c61e85cd5a8679fe9054951a127082a.png)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on June 05, 2017, 01:27:43 am
Thatcher meets Hitler:
(https://www.politicalcompass.org/chart?ec=9.81&soc=9.81)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on June 05, 2017, 03:33:23 am
So.... about you being a republican Marceaux?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on June 05, 2017, 07:59:19 pm
No comment...

Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBkP3EEXkAAZSv5.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on June 05, 2017, 08:35:35 pm
There is a rat problem, what would most people do? Kill the pest or relocate it.

What do modern day liberals want? Invite more pests and when the rats kill people, it's not their fault, it's the fault of the people wanting to get rid of the rats. It's so full circle on the 'terrorism-prayers4city-new terrorist attack' that I can't even fathom this anymore.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 05, 2017, 08:48:35 pm
It's not about taking in terrorists. It's about saving fugitives from a wartorn country.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 05, 2017, 09:05:00 pm
It's not about taking in terrorists. It's about saving fugitives from a wartorn country.

Except by the EU's own admission 60% are actually plain old economic migrants and 80% arent even from Syria.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 05, 2017, 11:49:28 pm
That might be but it's nothing like that here even if both leftists and rightists claims so. In Sweden we don't have any comprehensive integration policies which could quickly put migrants to work. The only party that have put forward such plans is the Liberals who sit on a steady 6%..
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on June 06, 2017, 12:35:26 am
That might be but it's nothing like that here even if both leftists and rightists claims so. In Sweden we don't have any comprehensive integration policies which could quickly put migrants to work. The only party that have put forward such plans is the Liberals who sit on a steady 6%..
That is why you need to stop accepting these migrants, develop a plan so that they don't keep disrupting your country, and then once you have policies in place allow them to enter if they're willing to work and contribute to your country. I don't understand how you could accept migrants knowingly not having jobs or housing for them, its almost like you're asking for trouble.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 06, 2017, 07:26:31 am
Those are issues that needs to be solved yes but that doesn't mean we should stop helping people in Syria (& other wartorn countries) if anything we should put more pressure on other middle eastern countries to accept fugitives and on countries in the EU which currently do nothing. Also refugee camps require quality of life improvements.



I don't usually watch John Oliver but.. (I consider him to much of a lefty sometimes.)

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5scez5dqtAc
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 06, 2017, 09:19:35 am
It's not about taking in terrorists. It's about saving fugitives from a wartorn country.

Except by the EU's own admission 60% are actually plain old economic migrants and 80% arent even from Syria.

And most of these 60% get rejected
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 06, 2017, 09:41:58 am
Whoops wrong thread.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 06, 2017, 12:18:53 pm
Oh cool, we are disagreeing about the term 'war'

You measure in casualties, I measure in direct intensity of the conflict and in what amount it affects the normal people.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on June 06, 2017, 12:25:28 pm
You have an attacker who literally shows up on a documentary about jihadis next door and years later is allowed to carry this attack out. That's an even bigger problem, homegrown radicalization being fostered and not monitored at all
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 06, 2017, 03:53:54 pm
For UK officials/government workers being called a racist is a fate worse than death (see Rotherham).
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 06, 2017, 04:48:38 pm
You have an attacker who literally shows up on a documentary about jihadis next door and years later is allowed to carry this attack out. That's an even bigger problem, homegrown radicalization being fostered and not monitored at all

This is bullshit and you know it. The attacks of this year have shown all these people were under scrutiny from the intel agencies at some point. They just weren't deemed enough of a threat.

And that is logical, if you had an organised group that is planning to bomb a movie theatre that will kill 200 people or you have someone who seems to maybe be preparing some sort of attack... what will you focus on?

And yues you have to choose in this scenario, because you can't watch everyone who is radical, in whatever belief, because that is stupid and you won't have the resources anyway.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on June 06, 2017, 07:29:24 pm
It's estimated there are 23,000 Islamic extremists living in the UK.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/huge-scale-of-terror-threat-revealed-uk-home-to-23-000-jihadists-3zvn58mhq

To monitor someone 24/7 it takes at minimum 12 officers, and perhaps as many as 20. 12 x 23,000 would be 276,000 officers. It's plainly impossible to have that many people working for MI5 (even more so when you consider that at its height the East German Stasi had 91,000 personnel).
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 06, 2017, 08:04:29 pm
Obviously, when you have so many enemies as a nation, this is kinda what you can expect. 7 deaths is objectively not even interesting. More people have died within a single car crash, with less media coverage.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 06, 2017, 09:23:04 pm
Obviously, when you have so many enemies as a nation, this is kinda what you can expect. 7 deaths is objectively not even interesting. More people have died within a single car crash, with less media coverage.

I knew you were a moron when you started picking fights against Chilton, but this is just comedic. Those 7 deaths could have been avoided if people with your virtue-signalling brain-dead mindset weren't weighing on the minds of the authorities.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 06, 2017, 09:37:28 pm
Obviously, when you have so many enemies as a nation, this is kinda what you can expect. 7 deaths is objectively not even interesting. More people have died within a single car crash, with less media coverage.

I will never understand the thought process that allows people to contort their way to this line of reasoning. Lets go through it piece by piece

Quote
Obviously, when you have so many enemies as a nation,  this is kinda what you can expect

So we start by victim blaming (you belong to x country which may have offended y country therefore you can expect your innocent women and children to be blown up in the streets *shrug*). Ignore the fact that a subset of islam has been doing shit like this since the 7th century. Ignore the fact they are also attacking countries like sweden which have taken in loads of refugees and not done virtually anything in the middle east. Ignore the fact the worst terror attacks are in the middle east itself (TIL muslim countries' have "so many enemies" in themselves).

Quote
7 deaths is objectively not even interesting

So now we quantify human life by numbers? At how many women and children butchered does it start to get your attention? How many innocent lives snuffed out before it becomes a tragedy? But that's beside the point. The real point is are we supposed to just shrug it off because it was "only" 7 innocents killed in the streets? What if they had killed 70? 700? 7000? You know that is what they would love to achieve, a 9/11 or worse scale attack. Shrugging the threat of islamic terror off because they "only" killed a few people this time is literally the exact same logic as saying "we can ignore climate change cause even though it may one day be catastrophic we have only seen 'objectively not even interesting' impact so far"

Quote
More people have died within a single car crash, with less media coverage.

And lastly we have a false equivalence between car ACCIDENTS and deliberate slaughter of innocent people.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 06, 2017, 10:11:21 pm
Obviously, when you have so many enemies as a nation, this is kinda what you can expect. 7 deaths is objectively not even interesting. More people have died within a single car crash, with less media coverage.

I knew you were a moron when you started picking fights against Chilton, but this is just comedic. Those 7 deaths could have been avoided if people with your virtue-signalling brain-dead mindset weren't weighing on the minds of the authorities.

Sure, it could have been prevented, IF the attackers would have been discovered quicker, IF the intel agencies thought they were a legitimate threat, IF they'd've had the oppertunity to close the cell down. It has nothing to do with people having the same kind of brain (?) as I do.


As for June:

You go from the perspective of a random citizen. Of course they don't deserve this, nobody really does deserve to be killed randomly. OKay yes I was generalising a bit when it is something you can expect when you have so many enemies, but still, with the kind of terrorism that is out there, it isn't a matter of 'if', it's a matter of 'when' it is going to happen. This is not, in any way, meant to ignore the severity of terrorism as a whole. Still, All things considered, 7 deaths is not that much for a terror attack. So yes, in the broader scheme of thigs, it isn't worth much, in terms of the radical islamists 'winning a war against the West'.

Perhaps it may be a false comparison between car accidents and terrorism deaths, but truly, the terrorism we see isn't half as powerful as it could be.
There are incredibly easy ways of shutting down parts of a country and completely fucking up, for example, Wall Street, The capitol, JFK Airport or the Transatlantic Communications Cable.
I won't go into how, but you'll have to trust me, it's stupendously easy.

There would, however, not have to be a single death involved (of course, in the aftermatch the most vulnerable would die, or at least some of them).
This is the point I am trying to make, for the past 37.000 times terrorism came up.

It is not the goal of terrorists to target the weakest spots in out infrastructure, they don't seek for the most destructive ways to target our countries. They only mean to put fear into us.
To quote Thatcher (which is dodgy, I know)

"All attempts by terrorists to destroy democracy, will fail".

there is a truth to that, because 7, 22, 87, or even 137 people at a time, will not even put a minor dent in our society. But that ius only, if we won't let them achieve the soul purpose of their attacks: installing fear.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on June 06, 2017, 10:13:01 pm
Obviously, when you have so many enemies as a nation, this is kinda what you can expect. 7 deaths is objectively not even interesting. More people have died within a single car crash, with less media coverage.

I knew you were a moron when you started picking fights against Chilton, but this is just comedic. Those 7 deaths could have been avoided if people with your virtue-signalling brain-dead mindset weren't weighing on the minds of the authorities.

Sure, it could have been prevented, IF the attackers would have been discovered quicker, IF the intel agencies thought they were a legitimate threat, IF they'd've had the oppertunity to close the cell down. It has nothing to do with people having the same kind of brain (?) as I do.


As for June:

You go from the perspective of a random citizen. Of course they don't deserve this, nobody really does deserve to be killed randomly. OKay yes I was generalising a bit when it is something you can expect when you have so many enemies, but still, with the kind of terrorism that is out there, it isn't a matter of 'if', it's a matter of 'when' it is going to happen. This is not, in any way, meant to ignore the severity of terrorism as a whole. Still, All things considered, 7 deaths is not that much for a terror attack. So yes, in the broader scheme of thigs, it isn't worth much, in terms of the radical islamists 'winning a war against the West'.

Perhaps it may be a false comparison between car accidents and terrorism deaths, but truly, the terrorism we see isn't half as powerful as it could be.
There are incredibly easy ways of shutting down parts of a country and completely fucking up, for example, Wall Street, The capitol, JFK Airport or the Transatlantic Communications Cable.
I won't go into how, but you'll have to trust me, it's stupendously easy.

There would, however, not have to be a single death involved (of course, in the aftermatch the most vulnerable would die, or at least some of them).
This is the point I am trying to make, for the past 37.000 times terrorism came up.

It is not the goal of terrorists to target the weakest spots in out infrastructure, they don't seek for the most destructive ways to target our countries. They only mean to put fear into us.
To quote Thatcher (which is dodgy, I know)

"All attempts by terrorists to destroy democracy, will fail".

there is a truth to that, because 7, 22, 87, or even 137 people at a time, will not even put a minor dent in our society. But that ius only, if we won't let them achieve the soul purpose of their attacks: installing fear.


Its not like its pretty easy to crack down on what is causing these attacks tho *thinking emoji*
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 06, 2017, 10:17:53 pm
it is pretty hard to crack down on. You'd be waging a conventional war on an idea.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on June 06, 2017, 10:20:57 pm
it is pretty hard to crack down on. You'd be waging a conventional war on an idea.
Well everyone ignoring the fact that Islam is the cause for these attacks will SURELY help :) :)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on June 06, 2017, 11:01:18 pm
It's estimated there are 23,000 Islamic extremists living in the UK.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/huge-scale-of-terror-threat-revealed-uk-home-to-23-000-jihadists-3zvn58mhq

To monitor someone 24/7 it takes at minimum 12 officers, and perhaps as many as 20. 12 x 23,000 would be 276,000 officers. It's plainly impossible to have that many people working for MI5 (even more so when you consider that at its height the East German Stasi had 91,000 personnel).
Hmm maybe you should have a British NSA  8)
Might help
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 06, 2017, 11:10:21 pm
It's estimated there are 23,000 Islamic extremists living in the UK.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/huge-scale-of-terror-threat-revealed-uk-home-to-23-000-jihadists-3zvn58mhq

To monitor someone 24/7 it takes at minimum 12 officers, and perhaps as many as 20. 12 x 23,000 would be 276,000 officers. It's plainly impossible to have that many people working for MI5 (even more so when you consider that at its height the East German Stasi had 91,000 personnel).
Hmm maybe you should have a British NSA  8)
Might help

One guy was on a British TV program and was even confronted by counter-terrorism agents and still nothing happened. I doubt another agency would make a difference lol


Could use a UK version of the Patriot Act though 8)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on June 06, 2017, 11:16:29 pm
It's estimated there are 23,000 Islamic extremists living in the UK.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/huge-scale-of-terror-threat-revealed-uk-home-to-23-000-jihadists-3zvn58mhq

To monitor someone 24/7 it takes at minimum 12 officers, and perhaps as many as 20. 12 x 23,000 would be 276,000 officers. It's plainly impossible to have that many people working for MI5 (even more so when you consider that at its height the East German Stasi had 91,000 personnel).
Hmm maybe you should have a British NSA  8)
Might help
Yes, more surveillance is the thing we need! Fuck rights of citizen, we need to protect them from the shit WE brought upon them! hahahahahahahahahahaIwannadiehahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 06, 2017, 11:34:06 pm
One guy was on a British TV program and was even confronted by counter-terrorism agents and still nothing happened. I doubt another agency would make a difference lol

They'd have convicted him if they could have. Perhaps not enough evidence?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 06, 2017, 11:37:43 pm
One guy was on a British TV program and was even confronted by counter-terrorism agents and still nothing happened. I doubt another agency would make a difference lol

They'd have convicted him if they could have. Perhaps not enough evidence?

There's more, though: the Moroccan-Italian was stopped trying to travel to Syria and was found with ISIS literature in his travel bag. He was placed on an Italian watch list and allowed back into the UK.

Did they really not have enough evidence that he may have been an extremist and take action?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on June 07, 2017, 03:09:11 am
lmao
https://youtu.be/dD1gwliqvG0
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 07, 2017, 02:35:53 pm
One guy was on a British TV program and was even confronted by counter-terrorism agents and still nothing happened. I doubt another agency would make a difference lol

They'd have convicted him if they could have. Perhaps not enough evidence?

There's more, though: the Moroccan-Italian was stopped trying to travel to Syria and was found with ISIS literature in his travel bag. He was placed on an Italian watch list and allowed back into the UK.

Did they really not have enough evidence that he may have been an extremist and take action?

Being on a watchlist only means you're under scrutiny by police or the Intel agencies. It does nothing to your rights. If you aren't convincted, they can't stop you. If you're a European citizen, you can't be stopped from getting into the UK from Italy.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on June 07, 2017, 02:52:42 pm
We jailed 100 Americans in guantanemo during our wars because of ties to extremists, just do the same
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 07, 2017, 03:21:51 pm
We jailed 100 Americans in guantanemo during our wars because of ties to extremists, just do the same

Yeah, but some regions of the world like to stick to humanitarian war law slightly more than others.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on June 07, 2017, 04:37:17 pm
We jailed 100 Americans in guantanemo during our wars because of ties to extremists, just do the same

Yeah, but some regions of the world like to stick to humanitarian war law slightly more than others.
Last time I checked, only humans are subject to humanitarian war laws. Subhumans are not.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 07, 2017, 05:18:15 pm
We jailed 100 Americans in guantanemo during our wars because of ties to extremists, just do the same

I believe the Tories plan on paving a path to taking action against the extremists by going around the court of human rights in some way. That's of course assuming they win after tomorrow.

Human rights for people who do inhumane things... just don't add up dawg.

Edit: Sorry, that wasn't terribly specific - the Tories plan on "scrapping" any Human Right Laws that may obstruct action being taken against the extremists in the UK.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on June 07, 2017, 07:38:52 pm
Human rights are a waste of time and don't guarantee personal liberties. Rights granted to the masses from on high can just as easily be taken away again by the same authority, doesn't matter what a piece of paper says. Just look at Turkey, a member state of the ECHR.

Limited government has always been, and remains to this day, the best form of protection for personal freedoms. I bet a lot of Turks would gladly swap so-called 'human rights' for a few more limitations on Erdogan's powers.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on June 11, 2017, 08:42:27 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXMkcZBvq7U
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on June 12, 2017, 01:41:28 pm
Limited government has always been, and remains to this day, the best form of protection for personal freedoms.

Has it? Like how slavery and institutionalized racism went away all by itself over the last two centuries in the USA?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on June 12, 2017, 05:38:37 pm
Limited government has always been, and remains to this day, the best form of protection for personal freedoms.

Has it? Like how slavery and institutionalized racism went away all by itself over the last two centuries in the USA?

Not sure what your point is-for a start the US constitution originally protected the slave trade, and institutionalised racism is still rampant in the USA. You'll have to explain to me how it is that Turkey, an ECHR member state, is rapidly becoming an authoritarian dictatorship where personal freedoms are trampled. Erdogan couldn't have done any of that if Turkey had a tradition of limited government.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 12, 2017, 05:56:15 pm
He could have, considering his power rise was mostly due to propaganda and letting his people 'choose' their dictator. He sued the means in place provided by the state mostly making use of military success. That would still have been possible with a limited government.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on June 12, 2017, 07:50:20 pm
He could have, considering his power rise was mostly due to propaganda and letting his people 'choose' their dictator. He sued the means in place provided by the state mostly making use of military success. That would still have been possible with a limited government.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. You can't choose a dictator in a limited government because such a position could not exist. Look at the US-Trump is having all sorts of problems with the judiciary and Congress and can't do as he pleases (despite the fact he inherited a presidency from Obama that had massively increased its powers due to the abuse of executive orders).

Sure, you can change the system away from one of limited government but it's very, very difficult. Compare that to 'Human Rights' legislation where all you need is a clever lawyer or simply to activate the various suspension clauses within the legislation.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 12, 2017, 09:30:45 pm
The US isn't the only country with checks and balances.... every country's system can be worked around to be abused and gain a fuckton of individual power.
Turkey has a Constitutional Court...

Erdogan became a dictator in spite of the system in place in Turkey. If you manage, even from a limited government, to make the people completely loyal to you by spreading bullshit stories (which truly isn't that hard, look at Erdogan, Hitler, Stalin and, to a lesser extent Trump), you can eventually and if you're smart and cunning anough exploit that to make the people 'choose' for you to have more control. Erdogan did that in the last referendum. Sure, he cheated, but it still goes to show yuo can abuse the system if yopu do it right. You just have to want to threaten people and eliminate political opponents.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 13, 2017, 01:06:09 am
The problem becomes how do you deal with a judiciary that disregards the constitution and twists a convoluted path obfuscating toward their pre-determined,  partisan/ideological "decision"
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 13, 2017, 12:23:03 pm
Become an army general and stage a coup
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 13, 2017, 07:12:12 pm
Has it? Like how slavery and institutionalized racism went away all by itself over the last two centuries in the USA?

I'd like to see you sit down with an Asian American student and explain that he's going to have to work twice as hard as an African American student to get a good SAT result, but it's OK because institutionalized racism has gone away thanks to government introduced affirmative action.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on June 20, 2017, 12:59:17 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Q72qYWxKQ&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on June 20, 2017, 01:18:13 am
lmao, thanks for that :)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on June 20, 2017, 03:57:02 am
Has it? Like how slavery and institutionalized racism went away all by itself over the last two centuries in the USA?

I'd like to see you sit down with an Asian American student and explain that he's going to have to work twice as hard as an African American student to get a good SAT result, but it's OK because institutionalized racism has gone away thanks to government introduced affirmative action.
Yea affirmative action is pretty much a joke.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 20, 2017, 12:14:06 pm
Still interesting how the United States is so rich, so powerful and still the only country that can't seem to fix the vast array of racial and violence problems.
There is literally no other country in the Western world that comes even close to the problems the U.S. has.

I would personally blame the political system, but I'm interested in the hypothesis.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 20, 2017, 12:24:35 pm
I think other Western countries have violence problems, too. It's also helpful to consider population density as a factor leading to crime.
Obviously there's a history of racism, but the clear majority of crimes committed against minorities are dohe by minorities.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on June 20, 2017, 12:33:52 pm
Yes, considering minorities commit the most crimes against other minorities (African Americans), that in itself is its own problem. Politics is apart of that but not the solution nor will it ever effect anything really.  It's the lack of education and upbringing in mostly dense populated areas such as inner cities that leads to a violent life.  Not denying we still have racists, but the bigger issue is clearly black on black inner city crime.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 20, 2017, 12:37:02 pm
Really the U.S. has a violence problem.
I don't really know the exact figures, but it was a chart considering the amount of murders per year per 100.000 people... The U.S. was at a murder rate Europe (on average) had back i nthe 1500's and  the report's conclusion was that, going from those numbers, the U.S. has a pre-civil society. That's a bit of a shortcut in my opinion but it does illustrate.
There are a few minor exceptions but the deats in most of Western Europe (comparable in culture to the U.S.) there, for the by far largest part, are caused by two reasons: People who severe mental disabilities, where you see usc tragic cases that  father murders his entire family) and criminal liquidations, about which the police in general doesn't really give a fuck about.

This is not at all the case in the U.S.

Considering population density in this regard doesn't exactly prove your point as Europe is more densely populated than the U.S.

Even if you would only consider city density the U.S. would lose. As a small example, take a pretty generic city in the U.S., for example Cincinnatti, Ohio.
A city with roughly 298.000 people.
Now take a pretty generic German city like Bonn, Westphalia, with roughly 318.000 people - slightly larger, but comparable.

The area of Cincinnatti is about 206.1 sq/Km
The area of Bonn is about 140

There are some really obious explanations to this, though.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 20, 2017, 03:35:36 pm
Going slightly off topic - anyone been following the situation in the Phillipines?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: ClaSh on June 20, 2017, 04:14:07 pm
Going slightly off topic - anyone been following the situation in the Phillipines?

They're dreading terrorist attacks
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on June 20, 2017, 05:24:11 pm
Yes, considering minorities commit the most crimes against other minorities (African Americans), that in itself is its own problem. Politics is apart of that but not the solution nor will it ever effect anything really.  It's the lack of education and upbringing in mostly dense populated areas such as inner cities that leads to a violent life.  Not denying we still have racists, but the bigger issue is clearly black on black inner city crime.
Yep. A nice example is how black people fear the police to death but the bottom line is that there's a huge chance they'll be killed by other black people rather then the police.

I don't really know how we can fix this but our inner cities are definitely in their worse state with the single motherhood rate, dropout rate, abortion rate, and rampant gang activity. I personally think we should just build a ton of covered basketball courts so the kids can hoop instead of shooting dope. 
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on June 20, 2017, 10:18:41 pm
Spoiler
I think other Western countries have violence problems, too. It's also helpful to consider population density as a factor leading to crime.
Obviously there's a history of racism, but the clear majority of crimes committed against minorities are dohe by minorities.
Yes, considering minorities commit the most crimes against other minorities (African Americans), that in itself is its own problem. Politics is apart of that but not the solution nor will it ever effect anything really.  It's the lack of education and upbringing in mostly dense populated areas such as inner cities that leads to a violent life.  Not denying we still have racists, but the bigger issue is clearly black on black inner city crime.
Yes, considering minorities commit the most crimes against other minorities (African Americans), that in itself is its own problem. Politics is apart of that but not the solution nor will it ever effect anything really.  It's the lack of education and upbringing in mostly dense populated areas such as inner cities that leads to a violent life.  Not denying we still have racists, but the bigger issue is clearly black on black inner city crime.
Yep. A nice example is how black people fear the police to death but the bottom line is that there's a huge chance they'll be killed by other black people rather then the police.

I don't really know how we can fix this but our inner cities are definitely in their worse state with the single motherhood rate, dropout rate, abortion rate, and rampant gang activity. I personally think we should just build a ton of covered basketball courts so the kids can hoop instead of shooting dope. 
[close]
All of this is true, and when people try to shift the blame of these violent attacks to our police officers having weapons, and how "police brutality is on the rise" is just nonsense. Sure the US has problems, but it's with minorities a huge part of the time. +1 to all the posts I quoted.
When it comes to fixing inner cities, I always thought the best solution would to just not have inner cities and move people, but obviously nothing is ever that black and white, but if you can get these people with poor education and big problems out of the problem areas so that they're in good environments or just bring education and support to them, but again, nothing is that clear.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 21, 2017, 02:03:19 pm
But it seems some of you do not live in the inner cities so how can you pretend to know the solution and also the cause of these problems. Go out and meet these people. Several of you talk like "black people" are some foreign species that you have never encountered personally besides seeing some b.s racist news or some YouTube videos of the hood. These people do have real issues and to constantly tell them otherwise is the reason half of them have issues. You are not in their shoes and most of you seem to have no real personal experiences with this side of life so why try to put your 2 cents in and tell them how to fix it.

See a few hood niggas and now all black people are against the police and are killing each other and degrading the inner cities with drugs etc. Whites have nothing to do with it... ::)

Honestly there are just as many trashy white people that contribute to the downfall of certain parts of cities and even neighborhoods outside of the cities as black people. And when you keep turning the blame towards one racial group of people you are in fact being racist and adding to the problem. It appears as if some of you live in nice suburbs far away from any of the real world things discussed here especially when regarding race. I live in pretty large diverse city and i can tell you moving people out of the city isn't going to just magically clean up their lives as the problem is not their urban surrounding. These problems and issues such as drug abuse and gang activity spread far out from the inner cities already. I have been in more dangerous places in neighborhoods outside of the city more times then when i was downtown.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 25, 2017, 01:37:03 am
Gentrification is a solution, if applied properly. It's a vast success in the NL and Germany
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on June 25, 2017, 09:22:26 am
Gentrification is a solution, if applied properly. It's a vast success in the NL and Germany
no, it is not. It just pretty much moves the Problem, while making every inner city look like its been designed by a retarded Hipster architekt who just graduated
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on June 25, 2017, 02:37:02 pm
How is it a succes?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 25, 2017, 08:45:35 pm
Oh please, it is here Duuring and you know this. Demolish it, make it nicer and just a tad more expensive, half or so of the people leave and scatter.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 25, 2017, 09:21:18 pm
But it seems some of you do not live in the inner cities so how can you pretend to know the solution and also the cause of these problems. Go out and meet these people. Several of you talk like "black people" are some foreign species that you have never encountered personally besides seeing some b.s racist news or some YouTube videos of the hood. These people do have real issues and to constantly tell them otherwise is the reason half of them have issues. You are not in their shoes and most of you seem to have no real personal experiences with this side of life so why try to put your 2 cents in and tell them how to fix it.

See a few hood niggas and now all black people are against the police and are killing each other and degrading the inner cities with drugs etc. Whites have nothing to do with it... ::)

Honestly there are just as many trashy white people that contribute to the downfall of certain parts of cities and even neighborhoods outside of the cities as black people. And when you keep turning the blame towards one racial group of people you are in fact being racist and adding to the problem. It appears as if some of you live in nice suburbs far away from any of the real world things discussed here especially when regarding race. I live in pretty large diverse city and i can tell you moving people out of the city isn't going to just magically clean up their lives as the problem is not their urban surrounding. These problems and issues such as drug abuse and gang activity spread far out from the inner cities already. I have been in more dangerous places in neighborhoods outside of the city more times then when i was downtown.

What complete and utter nonsense. Let's see if I can dissect this contradictory rant...

But it seems some of you do not live in the inner cities so how can you pretend to know the solution and also the cause of these problems. Go out and meet these people. Several of you talk like "black people" are some foreign species that you have never encountered personally besides seeing some b.s racist news or some YouTube videos of the hood. These people do have real issues and to constantly tell them otherwise is the reason half of them have issues. You are not in their shoes and most of you seem to have no real personal experiences with this side of life so why try to put your 2 cents in and tell them how to fix it.

Exactly how is this perspective of the situation going to solve anything, may I ask? The African American gang violence problem is a crisis that needs outside intervention if it's going to be solved. That help will have to come from, and brace yourself for this, outsiders! The number of total murders in Chicago for 2017 stands at 313!  We are only in June! (https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2017-chicago-murders)

It's becoming increasing apparent that some sort of outside intervention is needed; this problem has been going on for generations, it clearly cannot solve itself. Violence and gang warfare is the culture of these Americans, and it's going to be incredibly difficult to change that, it's certainly not going to happen by itself.

See a few hood niggas and now all black people are against the police and are killing each other and degrading the inner cities with drugs etc. Whites have nothing to do with it... ::)

Nobody is saying that, you tool. It's quite evident however, with all the rioting and police shootings taking place in the past few months and years, that the relationship between the majority of black people and the police is horrifically bad. Not only that however, but we are correct in saying the inner city blacks are massacring each other. That's not from generalisation, that's from reading one report provided by DNAinfo for Chicago.

Your last point is ridiculous - the drug war between the African Americans and the Mexicans has nothing to do with white people. Are you are poking at that conspiracy theory that the CIA is behind all drugs into the hood? I thought that died in the 90s.

Honestly there are just as many trashy white people that contribute to the downfall of certain parts of cities and even neighborhoods outside of the cities as black people. And when you keep turning the blame towards one racial group of people you are in fact being racist and adding to the problem. It appears as if some of you live in nice suburbs far away from any of the real world things discussed here especially when regarding race. I live in pretty large diverse city and i can tell you moving people out of the city isn't going to just magically clean up their lives as the problem is not their urban surrounding. These problems and issues such as drug abuse and gang activity spread far out from the inner cities already. I have been in more dangerous places in neighborhoods outside of the city more times then when i was downtown.

I find it disturbing just how eager you are to blame others, particularly outsiders and white people, for the problems of these gangsters. Bad parenting, poor economic decisions and a lack of respect for themselves and the law is what landed them in their dire situations. Refusing to address that the majority of a particular race is problematic because it's "racist" is politically correct nonsense. You cannot blame outsiders for the problems in the inner cities and then bar them from addressing the issue.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on June 25, 2017, 09:37:02 pm
I find it disturbing just how eager you are to blame others, particularly outsiders and white people, for the problems of these gangsters. Bad parenting, poor economic decisions and a lack of respect for themselves and the law is what landed them in their dire situations. Refusing to address that the majority of a particular race is problematic because it's "racist" is politically correct nonsense. You cannot blame outsiders for the problems in the inner cities and then bar them from addressing the issue.

Are you kidding me? You are talking about one statistic from CHIRAQ and condemn the majority of an entire race! BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 25, 2017, 09:48:27 pm
Chicago is most prominent example, but the problem is very much nation wide. If you don't think CHIRAQ is good enough, let's jump to government reports.

2005 was a particularly bad year; the Bureau of Justice Statistics stated that blacks were victims of 7,999 homicides in 2005 and said that 93 percent were killed by people who shared their race.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

Are you trying to argue that black people, almost exclusively in the inner cities mind you, don't have a problem with murder? I wouldn't put it past you, given the pure sh*t you spoke in your last post  ;D
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 25, 2017, 10:00:05 pm
Are you aware that in case of blacks in the U.S., the underlying problem is not that blacks are violent, but that they're usually poor and the subject of systematic racism?

Just throwing ideas out there.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 25, 2017, 10:06:20 pm
Are you aware that in case of blacks in the U.S., the underlying problem is not that blacks are violent, but that they're usually poor and the subject of systematic racism?

Just throwing ideas out there.
From what system?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 25, 2017, 10:20:28 pm
they're usually poor

As I stated earlier, this is a result of bad parenting and poor financial decisions. This leads to crime though, yes.

the subject of systematic racism?

Nonsense, AA actually gives them a systematic advantage. SAT bonuses and race-based scholarships go a long way.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 25, 2017, 10:54:28 pm
i win again
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on June 25, 2017, 10:54:58 pm
i win again
aint that hard if you are simply right.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Frederik on June 25, 2017, 11:29:47 pm
its also a problem of bad public schools, so kids from a poor background have little chances to get a good education and become some money, so their children gonna be poor too, etc.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 25, 2017, 11:34:11 pm
Are you aware that in case of blacks in the U.S., the underlying problem is not that blacks are violent, but that they're usually poor and the subject of systematic racism?

Just throwing ideas out there.
From what system?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 26, 2017, 09:15:53 am
Oh please, it may have decreased over time, but certainly it is a remnant of government racism, and yes, this does go back to the '60s and '80s.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 26, 2017, 11:29:30 am
Oh please, it may have decreased over time, but certainly it is a remnant of government racism, and yes, this does go back to the '60s and '80s.

[citation needed]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on June 26, 2017, 02:22:09 pm
African Americans are poorer on average mainly because they have extremely high rates of single-parent families. And yes that's a cause not a consequence of poverty, and if anyone doubts that imagine living on just your mother's wage growing up as a child.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on June 26, 2017, 06:38:29 pm
Oh please, it may have decreased over time, but certainly it is a remnant of government racism, and yes, this does go back to the '60s and '80s.

[citation needed]

Oh please, you need not a citation to now there wqas constructive racism just 40 years ago in the U.S. That sort of shit doesn't just erase after that short a time.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 26, 2017, 07:08:22 pm
Oh please, it may have decreased over time, but certainly it is a remnant of government racism, and yes, this does go back to the '60s and '80s.

[citation needed]

Oh please, you need not a citation to now there wqas constructive racism just 40 years ago in the U.S. That sort of shit doesn't just erase after that short a time.
That's a lot of claims and no supporting evidence. Still haven't told me which system is systematically racist.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on June 26, 2017, 07:52:27 pm
Are you aware that in case of blacks in the U.S., the underlying problem is not that blacks are violent, but that they're usually poor and the subject of systematic racism?

Just throwing ideas out there.
From what system?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on June 26, 2017, 10:03:28 pm
Japan just invited Taiwan, a country China claims as its own territory, to join the TPP (which is essentially an economic grouping hostile to China). I wonder how this will play out...
http://m.focustaiwan.tw/news/aall/201706260027.aspx
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 27, 2017, 12:46:35 am
I read that as "invaded".
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 01, 2017, 02:57:57 pm
Interesting bit of research, they polled 10,000 people in 10 European countries. Europe's future ain't looking too rosy-I predict mass social strife.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDplDJ4UAAAlBi-.jpg:large)

Naturally Brussels (well, Berlin) has listened to the people and has responded accordingly: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/13/eu-takes-action-against-eastern-states-for-refusing-to-take-refugees
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on July 01, 2017, 06:47:19 pm
"Take in our non-English speaking Africans OR ELSE."


Bonus round: search "German public pool" on YouTube. Enjoy  :)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on July 09, 2017, 12:16:05 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFkjq4wmYwI


I don't remember this...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 09, 2017, 09:06:40 pm
Well played
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNMAp8kXWrc
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on July 10, 2017, 12:07:28 pm
Wowie, that sure is incriminating evidence that liberals are actually fascists!
I mean, why else would no one have used their inbuilt fact/quote checker and call him out!

But "Hail Trump" and "Hail Victory" right? Edit: Watch the actual video of what he says, not just the first few Heiling seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on July 10, 2017, 02:21:38 pm
That is fucking hilarious
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 10, 2017, 04:36:11 pm
Nah, point is it shows just how ridiculous it is to label Hitler 'right-wing'. He wasn't. Right-wingers are concerned with individualism, the left focuses on collectivism. Hitler and the Nazi regime was collectivist (ein reich, ein volk, ein fuhrer etc).
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on July 10, 2017, 04:39:49 pm
Yeah, let's focus on that, instead of the Nazi-like behavior of these Trump-fans. Priorities.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on July 10, 2017, 05:34:57 pm
https://youtu.be/fy7ZYo4dXt8

Lolll
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on July 10, 2017, 07:55:17 pm
What's LA, for the non-Muricans here?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on July 10, 2017, 07:58:48 pm
What's LA, for the non-Muricans here?
Unless I'm mistaken (didn't watch the video, either) it's an abbreviation for Los Angeles?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 10, 2017, 08:20:12 pm
Yeah, let's focus on that, instead of the Nazi-like behavior of these Trump-fans. Priorities.

What's Nazi like about their behaviour? They're fantasists who get together and give a 'heil Hitler' salute then go home and rant on the internet. Call me (or don't, as I don't really care about the US domestically) when they start arming themselves and act on what they say. The thing we should be concerned about is the SJW/Antifa lot who not only say a lot of evil stuff but also carry it out. Keep giving them a free pass and you will get actual Nazis as a response.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on July 10, 2017, 10:36:21 pm
What is nazi-like abour their behavior? I dunno, the Hitler salute and the 'Hail Trump/Hail our victory!'-thing is pretty nazi to me. But you're right, naturally, they're not the real nazis.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on July 10, 2017, 11:02:21 pm
Steven for the love of god don't defend those scum. Say they aren't representative of the alt-right, or that they're extremists, or whatever else, but don't pretend they aren't modelling themselves after actual Nazis.
"Hail Victory", "Lugenpresse", wondering "if they're people at all". How can you not see that as anything but what it is? I don't care what your views are regarding the economy, rights, healthcare or whatever else, there is no way you can defend those people.
As for if they're armed, that was possibly even more stupid. You'd be hard pressed to find a single one who doesn't already own a gun, not that that's a big deal in the US, but you wanted to bring up them arming themselves.

As for doing things, white supremacists have been busy since 9/11:
31 attacks in 15 years from Muslim terrorists, killing 119 people.
81-89 attacks in 15 years from "far right extremist attacks" killing 106-158 (depending on how it's categorised).
0 deaths from Muslim refugees.
http://www.snopes.com/2017/06/07/threat-extremists-more/
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 11, 2017, 12:15:51 am
I'm not defending them, I'm calling them out for what they are: fantasists who play dress up and act big on the internet. By arming themselves I meant forming their own SA or whatever, of course your average American will already be armed to the teeth.

Those figures are true if you only look at the US and exclude Europe. 130 people were massacred at the Bataclan attacks alone, with two of the perpetrators having sneaked into Europe as refugees. Of course if the problem is caused by Islamic extremism, and if the Muslim population of the US is less than 1% of the total, then you're going to see fewer attacks compared to say France where the figure is between 7-9%. It's also difficult for ISIS to smuggle fighters posing as refugees into the US given they control their borders compared to most EU states which don't.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on July 11, 2017, 12:26:13 am
Quote
By arming themselves I meant forming their own SA or whatever,
Yeah, let's assume that they're stupid enough to attempt a political tactic that is illegal and will immediatly lose them political legitimacy due to the obvious Nazi resemblence. Then again, if they can get away with doing Hitler salutes and the English for 'Sieg Heil' without people like you thinking this is something to worry about, somehow I'm led to believe people like you will even at that point continue to defend them ("IT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE FORCED TO DEFEND THEMSELVES FROM THE SJW'S!!!11!") and state that they're not real Nazi's until they're actually shipping people off to the deathcamps.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on July 11, 2017, 12:39:58 am
I mean we were talking about white supremacists being an issue in the US, which they are. Don't start moving the goalposts with Europe, which is a whole different matter. It is undeniable that white supremacists are still a massive issue in the US. You may believe them all to be fantasists, but the fact that there are so many attacks which are directly linked to the far right should be reason to be concerned. White supremacists are not a recent phase that America is growing out of, nor are their killings.
Yes, recent attacks in Europe have caused great loss of life, even if it's still a tiny fraction of total deaths in any given country. But then we aren't worried about school shootings here, nor gang killings, police shooting at traffic stops and so on.

I missed the bit about collectivism before, but it could just as easily be argued that Trump now follows the same propaganda (America First, eerily reminiscent of Deutschland uber alles?), or argue the opposite, that Hitler was actually dividing the nation up into Us and Them (dehumanising them too), which again could be related to Trump (de jure Americans being called Mexicans, wanting a national register of a religious group).

I must say I still find it funny that groups which usually detest the establishment support an individual so wealthy and used to exploiting working people. Then again, I suppose they don't believe he'd ever turn on them, what with being white and all.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on July 11, 2017, 03:42:07 am
Quote
By arming themselves I meant forming their own SA or whatever,
Yeah, let's assume that they're stupid enough to attempt a political tactic that is illegal and will immediatly lose them political legitimacy due to the obvious Nazi resemblence. Then again, if they can get away with doing Hitler salutes and the English for 'Sieg Heil' without people like you thinking this is something to worry about, somehow I'm led to believe people like you will even at that point continue to defend them ("IT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE FORCED TO DEFEND THEMSELVES FROM THE SJW'S!!!11!") and state that they're not real Nazi's until they're actually shipping people off to the deathcamps.
Why is it that neo-Nazi's are (rightfully) disdained and suppressed when neo-Communists (with a much worse body count based on ideological history) are given an essentially free pass?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on July 11, 2017, 04:10:47 am
Yes, recent attacks in Europe have caused great loss of life, even if it's still a tiny fraction of total deaths in any given country. But then we aren't worried about school shootings here, nor gang killings, police shooting at traffic stops and so on.

This is easily the most condescending and amusingly contradictory post you've made on this forum.

By your own logic "81-89 attacks in 15 years from "far right extremist attacks" killing 106-158" is a "tiny fraction of the total deaths" in the United States! Duuring's white guilt is impalpable in most of his posts, but you make absolutely zero attempt to hide your bias. You later go on to say that European terrorism isn't allowed to be brought up, as if European lives are of less importance than non-whites. Of course, you simply don't want it mentioned because it does not fit into your ridiculous rhetoric that white supremacy is a bigger issue than Islamic terrorism.

I missed the bit about collectivism before, but it could just as easily be argued that Trump now follows the same propaganda (America First, eerily reminiscent of Deutschland uber alles?), or argue the opposite, that Hitler was actually dividing the nation up into Us and Them (dehumanising them too), which again could be related to Trump (de jure Americans being called Mexicans, wanting a national register of a religious group).

You and this post are equally hysterical...

Quote
Hitler was actually dividing the nation up into Us and Them (dehumanising them too), which again could be related to Trump (de jure Americans being called Mexicans, wanting a national register of a religious group).

The difference being that the Jews hadn't declared holy Jihad on Germany during the 1930s and weren't actively sending trained mass murders into the European continent!

I despise people like yourself and Duuring who try to use Nazism as an excuse for inaction against extremists and groups of people that are of equal menace to society. You pick and choose who is worthy of victim-hood; Europeans are allowed to be murdered by people brought foolish into the continent by people like yourself, but we must be up in arms about murders committed by murderers born into a continent. Murders committed by both sides are equally vile from the perspective of someone like myself, but I warn you: do not fool yourself into thinking the latter is much harder to prevent than the former.


And I haven't even got started on the events happening in Germany this past week. More violence being committed by "NAZIS!!!!!" (this is their historically accurate behaviour, not your definition) being perpetuated by the... LEFT-WING.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 11, 2017, 05:07:24 am
For the last time I'm not defending them, I'm saying they're no threat (Richard Spencer and the alt-right at least, I'm sure there's violent nationalists groups who are).

Trump isn't a collectivist, he's an economic nationalist. Always found this argument very compelling on Hitler and his version of socialism:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/hitler-and-the-socialist-dream-1186455.html

There was very little that was conservative or right-wing about Nazism, it was fundamentally a left-wing platform. Hitler put into practice all the popular causes of the left in the 1920s/1930s: eugenics, antisemitism and related racial theory, state-sponsored social and economic programmes, the installation of a one party state (where both the party and the state were essentially inseparable) and so on. Hitler and his associates were extremely well-read on Marxism and considered themselves part of that tradition, it's just they rejected the international socialism of the USSR and believed it should be based on racial and national lines instead.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on July 13, 2017, 10:49:30 pm
Gordo what on earth was hysterical? I genuinely don't see how you were able to misinterpret the tone of what I wrote to that degree.
If anyone's hysterical here it's you between the caps, exclamation marks and underlining. Pointing out similarities between Trump and Hitler was obviously facetious, which given that I argued both for and against I figured any moron would be able to see.

As for excluding Europe, again, we were talking about right wing extremism in the US, not Europe.
We were discussing whether or not the extreme right was a threat in the US, to which I responded that they had actually committed a large number of attacks, quoting statistics. I have no qualms admitting that there are plenty of issues in Europe, not least of which is terrorism. I think you have to admit that the US and Europe are in very much different situations, with Europe at far higher risk of terrorist attacks for a number of reasons including the porous borders, geographical proximity, cultural attitude and so on. Obviously I'm much more scared of terrorism than white supremacy mainly because I live in Europe, not the US (also I'm white).

Lastly, I don't use Nazis as an excuse for anything; (obviously) I hate everything they stood for. I always find it really weird that the right have this obsession with Hitler; half of them want him back in power and the other half want to prove that the left are all secretly nazi sympathisers. Both are equally retarded.
I don't get where you've managed to get these ideas that I think I'd rather Muslims kill us than Nazis, as again I've never said anything of the sort and despise both equally.
I also fail to see why you blame me for bringing terrorists into the country and claim that I decide who gets to be a victim. Obviously anyone who dies is a victim, which one might add extends back to colonialism, but that might trigger you a little too hard.


And Steven, I realise that there was a left-wing/socialist aspect to the Nazis (I mean it's in the name), but I don't see how that in and of itself is evil. An evil person will often do good things.
I may hate May for many reasons, but allowing those in care at home to pay back social care costs after their deaths is not one of them.
Hitler was evil because of the anti-semitism, the racial segregation, the mass slaughtering of innocents, not the aspirations of improved living standards.
Whatever your views on socialism and the welfare state may be, they were not the root of Hitler's evil, only a populist method of acquiring power (even though he probably did genuinely believe them). In economic strife nations will always look to the left, hoping to be looked after by the government, while in prosperity they will want to shrug free of welfare states, saying they hold them back despite everything.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 14, 2017, 04:47:26 am
Whatever your views on socialism and the welfare state may be, they were not the root of Hitler's evil, only a populist method of acquiring power (even though he probably did genuinely believe them). In economic strife nations will always look to the left, hoping to be looked after by the government, while in prosperity they will want to shrug free of welfare states, saying they hold them back despite everything.

They were actually. The left conveniently forgets the fact that in the inter-war period it was at the forefront of promoting eugenics which was the intellectual underpinning of Hitler's murders. Just about every socialist thinker of note during that period (Bertrand Russell, George Bernard Shaw, William Beveridge, Harold Laski, Beatrice Webb etc the list is endless) said some pretty f*cked up things regarding their support for eugenics, though granted most didn't advocate murder merely mass sterilisations, forced abortions and selective breeding programmes. Seriously, read it for yourself:

http://www.paulbogdanor.com/left/eugenics.html (<-- especially good, if you only read one make it this)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/17/eugenics-skeleton-rattles-loudest-closet-left
http://www.newstatesman.com/society/2010/12/british-eugenics-disabled

Leftist newspapers also pushed eugenics. It's in the links above but I always found this quote from the New Statesman in July 1931 encapsulated the situation perfectly:
"The legitimate claims of eugenics are not inherently incompatible with the outlook of the collectivist movement. On the contrary, they would be expected to find their most intransigent opponents amongst those who cling to the individualistic views of parenthood and family economics."

The modern left likes to snigger about that one time when the Daily Mail gave Oswald Mosley a positive headline but strangely doesn't like to recall that around the same time The Guardian was pushing eugenics and the mass sterilisation of the poor and disabled.
Eugenics had some narrow support on the right too but for the most part conservatives strongly pushed back against it (with help from one or two working class Labour MPs I should add who rightly viewed Fabian Socialism with suspicion).

Eugenics was an evil ideology but collectivists at the time thought it was for the greater good of society as a whole and therefore justifiable. The left has always been utopian and that lends itself to the kind of thinking whereby doing a little evil is 'fine' if it gets you closer to that perfect future which is always just around the corner. Truth is that utopia doesn't exist, you can never get there so all you're left with is the bloodshed and nothing to show for it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 14, 2017, 09:38:36 am
Yawn-I'm not gonna properly engage with some rant from an edgy kid who swears a lot. You lost me at:

"State-sponsored social programmes" aren't some sort of integral part of Socialism you fucking imbecile.

I was referring more to the indoctrination of the youth (Young Pioneers, Little Octoberists, etc) as a deliberate social programme but it applies just as well to social security. You'll have to explain why you think social security isn't an integral part of socialism because I thought that was the main selling point lol.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on July 15, 2017, 01:38:48 am
Do you wanna, uh, take a chill pill? We're going on like 10 weeks without an incident on this thread
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on July 15, 2017, 03:17:13 am
This is the shit that makes this thread good. Be gone thot- theodin...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on July 15, 2017, 04:12:20 am
i hate yall
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 15, 2017, 11:48:28 am
Lemme dumb it down for you anyway:
On "Socialism is literally Hitler"
-Nazi Germany privatized industry whereas other countries at that time were nationalizing
-Hitler purged Left wingers in and out of his party
-Hitler was supported by capitalista.

Nazi privisation was selective and designed to raise funds for re-armament, as well as reward those who supported the party. It was not at all ideologically motivated. At the same time Hitler nationalised large parts of the economy and greatly increased state control over the private sector. From Wikipedia (Yes I know but it's a well-policed page with citations I've checked before copying and pasting):

Quote
During the 12 years of the Third Reich, government ownership expanded greatly into formerly private sectors of strategic industries: aviation, synthetic oil and rubber, aluminum, chemicals, iron and steel, and army equipment. The capital assets of state-owned industry doubled during this same period, whereby the nationalization caused state-ownership of companies to increase to over 500 businesses. Further, government finances for state-owned enterprises quadrupled from 1933 to 1943. Albert Speer in his memoirs remarked that “a kind of state socialism seemed to be gaining more and more ground” among many Nazi party functionaries, warning that Germany’s industry was becoming “the framework for a state-socialist economic order.”
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany#Pre-war_economy:_1933.E2.80.931939
You can read the whole section for yourself but it's essentially a summary of the writings of RJ Overy and Richard Evans (personally I've only read Overy).


All in all it's totally ridiculous to suggest Hitler was pro-Business and capitalism. Among other things the Nazis closed most of the stock exchanges in the country and banned the trading of foreign stocks, never received the majority of political donations from big business pre-1933, instituted compulsory state run Labour unions whilst disbanding disbanding all others, and nationalised large swathes of industry (particularly in those sectors related to rearmament).


As for the rest of what you wrote it just shows you don't know the difference between socialism and communism. Hitler wasn't a Marxist/Communist (though he was an admirer of Marx and recognised him as an influence), but he was a socialist. You can argue 'yeah but he didn't subscribe to specific Marxist thinking on the transition between capitalism and socialism so he was clearly ultra-right wing go fuck yourself haha' but you're just being dishonest. I mean we can argue about Republican Teenagers vs The Young Pioneers but the former is a voluntary, private institution which competes with other youth groups whilst the latter was essentially compulsory and state mandated (much like the Hitler Youth) and was a key plank of East German social engineering. It's a further manifestation of your dishonesty that you're trying to argue there's some kind of equivalency between the two.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on July 15, 2017, 04:17:18 pm
Steven youth groups are by no means a part of socialism. They're just an effective tool to indoctrinate kids into agreeing with your ideals to become voters and party members later, hence their prevalence across the political spectrum. Calling it private is retarded, as political parties (especially in the US but also in the UK and elsewhere) are so heavily funded by private institutions that you might as well call the Republican party itself a "voluntary private institution". Sources of funding changes nothing about the content and purpose of a youth group.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on July 15, 2017, 05:54:23 pm
Sources of funding has everything to do with everything, especially when it comes to politics. I haven't been following this discussion much, but with any group the funding influences the ideological direction in at least a small sense.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 15, 2017, 06:03:50 pm
I didn't say they were, just pointed out they're a key feature of such regimes for the reasons you mentioned. Also 'sources of funding changes nothing about the content and purpose of a youth group'? Are you for real? Moscow in the days of the USSR used to fund Communist Youth Groups around the world as part of an effort to undermine capitalism-surely you've heard of the phrase 'he who holds the purse strings....'?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on July 16, 2017, 12:34:09 am
What I'm saying is that in modern day US politics, parties are already up for purchase by donators, so whether it's a rich republican paying for a youth group or the republican party itself makes no difference, it's the same influence. Obviously there's a huge difference between nationalised vs. privatised companies, but we were talking about political youth groups, which let me emphasize again, are not a part of "socialism" or the left.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 22, 2017, 12:12:43 am
https://www.thelocal.de/20170721/german-media-failed-to-report-refugee-crisis-honestly-study-claims
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on July 22, 2017, 07:20:28 pm
Hilarious. Bild supporting Merkel (or any government thing) in any way? Doesn't happen.
The Suddeutsche doing the same? Even less credible.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on July 23, 2017, 12:14:11 pm
https://www.thelocal.de/20170721/german-media-failed-to-report-refugee-crisis-honestly-study-claims
So you are stating that the "Mainstream Media" lied to the people based on an article published in one of the biggest German Newspapers (="Mainstream Media")?
Good Logik there Bro  ???

Dont you people understand that there is no such thing Like "neutral" Media? Every Newspaper, specially in Germany,follows some Kind of political View.
"Die Zeit" is more conservative, while "der spiegel" is more left winged, while "Bild" is some mix Up of Boulevard and "proletarian" Media. When you are Reading any News, its your obligation to ask yourself First, which political opinion your source is trying to Tell.

 When Newspapers Transfer theire political Point of View, thats Not automaticly lying.
Your Logik is Like using critic on Fox News for telling ultra conservative opinions on whats going on, while everyone knows what to expect from fox News.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Norwegian13 on July 23, 2017, 01:25:06 pm
https://www.thelocal.de/20170721/german-media-failed-to-report-refugee-crisis-honestly-study-claims

Dont you people understand that there is no such thing Like "neutral" Media? Every Newspaper, specially in Germany,follows some Kind of political View.

This is VERY true, there is unfortunately no such thing "neutral" media, there never has been and there never will be. Everyone has a side they're on, and they're going to be trying to push that political side they're on as VonBergen mentioned. It's the same with people as well, everyone has always a side and an opinion that they're going to stand by.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 23, 2017, 04:00:47 pm
Everyone is biased, no such thing as a neutral viewpoint, but don't try and pretend you're shocked that the German press by and large reported the migrant crisis poorly. Same happened in Sweden and other EU states.

For instance this article on a similar study from last year reached the same conclusions. It puts a laughable spin on it, essentially claiming the British press presented a range of viewpoints vs continental press which all said the same thing, which is for some reason bad for the UK (lmao, apparently press plurality is bad if they're not unified in defending a certain viewpoint): http://theconversation.com/uk-press-is-the-most-aggressive-in-reporting-on-europes-migrant-crisis-56083

Spoiler
My favourite passage:

"But the most striking finding in our research is how polarised and aggressive British press reporting was compared to that of other countries.

In most countries, newspapers, whether left or right wing, tended to report using the same sources. They also featured the same kinds of themes and provided similar explanations and solutions to the crisis.

But the British press was different. While The Guardian and – to a lesser extent, the Daily Mirror – featured a range of humanitarian themes and sources sympathetic to the plight of refugees, the right-wing press consistently endorsed a hardline anti-refugee and migrant, Fortress Europe approach."
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on July 23, 2017, 04:30:23 pm
Everyone is biased, no such thing as a neutral viewpoint, but don't try and pretend you're shocked that the German press by and large reported the migrant crisis poorly. Same happened in Sweden and other EU states.

For instance this article on a similar study from last year reached the same conclusions. It puts a laughable spin on it, essentially claiming the British press presented a range of viewpoints vs continental press which all said the same thing, which is for some reason bad for the UK (lmao, apparently press plurality is bad if they're not unified in defending a certain viewpoint): http://theconversation.com/uk-press-is-the-most-aggressive-in-reporting-on-europes-migrant-crisis-56083

Spoiler
My favourite passage:

"But the most striking finding in our research is how polarised and aggressive British press reporting was compared to that of other countries.

In most countries, newspapers, whether left or right wing, tended to report using the same sources. They also featured the same kinds of themes and provided similar explanations and solutions to the crisis.

But the British press was different. While The Guardian and – to a lesser extent, the Daily Mirror – featured a range of humanitarian themes and sources sympathetic to the plight of refugees, the right-wing press consistently endorsed a hardline anti-refugee and migrant, Fortress Europe approach."
[close]

I have no Idea where you live pal, but i am sure not in germany. As a german let me tell you, that the last thing german media did is reporting the refugee crisis "poorly". It was the leading topic for over a year and you could find dozens of articels in every important newspaper, website etc.
You need to divide between reporting poorly and not seeing something as an unsolutional Problem. As said before a lot of german newspapers shared Angela Merkels Opionion and transfered it. But 1. Merkels leading Sentence was "We can do this", not "there is no crisis". The Sentence "We can do this" contains that there is a problem/crisis, but also a solution 2. Beside that, the Media always did theire other Job: Telling Facts. And by Facts i mean Numbers, statistics. And in every important article on the Topic you could also find the important Numbers. Everbody in Germany knew and knows that there came over 1.000.000 Refugees to germany at that time, that the authorities had difficulties to handle it etc. But just because Merkel and some Part of the Media didnt defined that as an unsolvable Problem, doesnt mean it wasnt seen as a Problem.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on July 23, 2017, 05:25:16 pm
So what was Merkel's solution?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on July 23, 2017, 05:32:29 pm
So what was Merkel's solution?
More migrants, i guess
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on July 23, 2017, 05:34:36 pm
So what was Merkel's solution?
I can tell you that the german administration i working on handling all asylum applications at the moment. By far we got no major problems with refugees in Germany. Sure there are some of them who commit crimes, but i think that is normal in 1.000.000 human beeings. I do undestand that for you people outside of germany it seems like we got big Trouble with Refugees commiting crime, but always remember that a refugee harrasing a woman is way more interesting for a newspaper to write about, then thousands of refugees doing absolutely nothing wrong. So all in all we are doing fine and working on a way to integrate those thousands of people with working potential in our Job Market #wörk #wörk
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on July 23, 2017, 05:36:38 pm
So what was Merkel's solution?
I can tell you that the german administration i working on handling all asylum applications at the moment. By far we got no major problems with refugees in Germany. Sure there are some of them who commit crimes, but i think that is normal in 1.000.000 human beeings. I do undestand that for you people outside of germany it seems like we got big Trouble with Refugees commiting crime, but always remember that a refugee harrasing a woman is way more interesting for a newspaper to write about, then thousands of refugees doing absolutely nothing wrong. So all in all we are doing fine and working on a way to integrate those thousands of people with working potential in our Job Market #wörk #wörk
So, the migrant crisis problem coud be simply overrated? And the the real situation is not that bad as shown?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on July 23, 2017, 05:45:21 pm
So what was Merkel's solution?
I can tell you that the german administration i working on handling all asylum applications at the moment. By far we got no major problems with refugees in Germany. Sure there are some of them who commit crimes, but i think that is normal in 1.000.000 human beeings. I do undestand that for you people outside of germany it seems like we got big Trouble with Refugees commiting crime, but always remember that a refugee harrasing a woman is way more interesting for a newspaper to write about, then thousands of refugees doing absolutely nothing wrong. So all in all we are doing fine and working on a way to integrate those thousands of people with working potential in our Job Market #wörk #wörk
So, the migrant crisis problem coud be simply overrated? And the the real situation is not that bad as shown?
Not bad as shown as in non-german media. And if you dont believe me and think the country is a whole fucking mess atm, please note that there in only one major Party in Germany that doesnt supports refugees-welcome-politics in germany right now (the far right winges "Afd"), and they got only 7/8% in the latest polls, while the other big partys that support refugees-welcome-politics combine around 90% of the votes in the latest polls.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on July 23, 2017, 05:48:51 pm
Well, i dont think that Germany is a mess, but i dont personally think, that flow of migrants in Europe wont cause the problems. Collisions of cultures, customs and religions wont maketheir integration process that smooth.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on July 23, 2017, 05:53:02 pm
Well, i dont think that Germany is a mess, but i dont personally think, that flow of migrants in Europe wont cause the problems. Collisions of cultures, customs and religions wont maketheir integration process that smooth.
sure there is a big potential for problems as you are saing, and i personally am not willing to dont let you think such thing. But what i am trying to say is: We got 1.000.000 refugees in round about one year here, and the world is still spinning. We are still living the same Way, we are handling the problem. And we wont loose our Culture, our Beliefs, our Way of Life. We are a strong democracy that is able to work with a lot of people coming with different culture etc. We did it in the 60ts with the turks/greeks, we did it in the 90s with the balcan people and we will do it with the syrians/mahgrebs
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 23, 2017, 07:11:38 pm
Lol, Merkel messed up with her migrant policies in 2015 don't event try to pretend there are no problems. She had to massively backtrack after several disastrous election results (and had to publicly humiliate herself by admitting she made mistakes in order to stave off a challenge to her leadership). She had to get tough and now says:

a) They are only here temporarily and have to go back when the war ends
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12132657/Merkel-warns-asylum-seekers-that-German-refuge-is-temporary.html

b) She's reduced to having to pay them off at £1000 a pop to leave the country.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-offer-asylum-seekers-1200-euros-voluntarily-return-home-countries-refugees-crisis-merkel-a7561701.html

Oh and there's a backlog of 400,000 claims in the system but I'm sure as you say that everything is fine. I have a German friend who works as a government lawyer and got drafted in to help with the refugee system-she tells me the exact opposite of your 'everything is fine, nothing to see here' line. She says the whole thing is totally screwed, you've got mass fraud in the system, total chaos, ethnic/religious tensions within the shelters that frequently explode into violence, male 'refugees' frequently refusing to speak to her as she's a woman (management are now restricting female staff on 'frontline' duties as this is a recurring problem apparently), and people complaining that the streets aren't littered with gold as the smugglers had promised them. Indeed a migrant complained to her that he had 'lost everything' because he'd paid the smugglers £10,000 and wouldn't be able to get the money back and make a profit off coming to Germany.

The whole thing is perfectly encapsulated by this hilarious story from last year: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-tourist-idUSKCN10J206
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on July 23, 2017, 07:26:46 pm
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/ive-worked-refugees-decades-europes-afghan-crime-wave-mind-21506?page=show
No problems at all though!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on July 23, 2017, 08:21:06 pm
I persoanlly like the view of eastern europeans about migrants, like we dont need this kind of people polluting our land.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on July 23, 2017, 09:28:18 pm
Spoiler
Lol, Merkel messed up with her migrant policies in 2015 don't event try to pretend there are no problems. She had to massively backtrack after several disastrous election results (and had to publicly humiliate herself by admitting she made mistakes in order to stave off a challenge to her leadership). She had to get tough and now says:

a) They are only here temporarily and have to go back when the war ends
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12132657/Merkel-warns-asylum-seekers-that-German-refuge-is-temporary.html

b) She's reduced to having to pay them off at £1000 a pop to leave the country.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-offer-asylum-seekers-1200-euros-voluntarily-return-home-countries-refugees-crisis-merkel-a7561701.html

Oh and there's a backlog of 400,000 claims in the system but I'm sure as you say that everything is fine. I have a German friend who works as a government lawyer and got drafted in to help with the refugee system-she tells me the exact opposite of your 'everything is fine, nothing to see here' line. She says the whole thing is totally screwed, you've got mass fraud in the system, total chaos, ethnic/religious tensions within the shelters that frequently explode into violence, male 'refugees' frequently refusing to speak to her as she's a woman (management are now restricting female staff on 'frontline' duties as this is a recurring problem apparently), and people complaining that the streets aren't littered with gold as the smugglers had promised them. Indeed a migrant complained to her that he had 'lost everything' because he'd paid the smugglers £10,000 and wouldn't be able to get the money back and make a profit off coming to Germany.

The whole thing is perfectly encapsulated by this hilarious story from last year: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-tourist-idUSKCN10J206
[close]
I did not say everything is fine, i Said "we are working on it" and thats a Fact. Your friend might be right but what do you expect with that large Ammount of people coming in. We are working on it but it will take time and thats everything i Said.
Yeah Merkel changed something afterwards, but that was reacting on how the things went not changing her political opinion or regreting her decision

I never said there is Not a Problem with the refugees. But i believe its one wen can solve and also act for the sake of humanity

What Merkel did was Not about political View or for the sake of Economy. It was about Thousands of people stranded on the hungarian-austrian Border. It was for the sake of humanity. And No matter what Problems came with that: Merkel will keep on beeing cancelor after the German election this year so there is a majority of people in Germany supporting her, many of them May do Not Support her refugee politics, but you cant agree with everything a politican does. But Fact is, as Long as a democatic majority is supporting her all in all she has the right to make such decisions, and if she looses the next election, she wont anymore. Thats how democatic countrys Work.

As said, yes the refugees caused a Lot of Problems, yes it will take years to solve them, but Germany is dooing good. We got a strong Economy, our political system is working (and yes it is also a sign of our working system that there are people who are against Merkels refugee politic). We will be doing good in Future and Just because there are black sheeps in a group of 1.000.000 people doesnt mean, we will all in all Not Take Advantage of this people while helping them
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on July 23, 2017, 09:58:32 pm
I have said it before and I will say it again. If you honestly believe taking in so many immgrants and refugees that your system begins buckling under the strain (or even enough that it collapses entirely) will make any measurable difference in helping the poor and suffering of the world, you are hopelessly misled and/or kidding yourselves.

ELI5 why we should royal fuck over our own countries taking in millions of people that will only be replaced by tens of millions more every year in their home countries. Also taking in as immigrants the less disadvantaged, more "valuable" immigrants that would otherwise be the most likely to improve their own nations for the better.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on July 23, 2017, 11:01:48 pm
I'd ike to look at that migrant, who would return to Syria/Libya/etc after war ends, or would take money for the return now. They saw good life in Europe, so why the hell they have to return to destroyed and devastated lands in their countries. I bet, those who came now will stay for awhile if not forever. Another question if would they make an effort to work in Europe to make their stay usefull for all. Maybe building fences and refusing migrants like on East is much wisely right now?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on July 24, 2017, 11:50:46 am
so why the hell they have to return to destroyed and devastated lands in their countries. I bet, those who came now will stay for awhile if not forever.

Because they prefer home? It happened before. Sure, a number will stay. A lot will go back. Those who do stay assimilate, usually.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on July 24, 2017, 09:35:44 pm
All hail Seantor Kid Rock
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on July 28, 2017, 02:20:28 pm
Is FSE ✔ the trans ban or ❌?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on July 28, 2017, 03:15:56 pm
Is FSE ✔ the trans ban or ❌?

As someone who experienced people of different Sexual identity in the German army and served side by side with them without any problems, ❌ from me.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on July 28, 2017, 03:45:16 pm
Some Murican, what was the previous vote that McCain supported?
I thought the video like a week ago of him walking in voting in favour of some bill or other was the whole repeal Obamacare thing, but now I hear he's voted against that bill. Were they two different bills?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on July 28, 2017, 04:10:20 pm
Who knows what goes on in the US
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on July 28, 2017, 04:23:13 pm
Some Murican, what was the previous vote that McCain supported?
I thought the video like a week ago of him walking in voting in favour of some bill or other was the whole repeal Obamacare thing, but now I hear he's voted against that bill. Were they two different bills?
Not sure but the latest vote was a skinny vote, to repeal only certain provisions in obamacare.  That vote failed, with 3 republicans voting against. It's a mess right now

Is FSE ✔ the trans ban or ❌?

As someone who experienced people of different Sexual identity in the German army and served side by side with them without any problems, ❌ from me.
American military is different.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 28, 2017, 04:46:08 pm
Trans people are mentally ill and clearly unfit to serve in the military. Suicide attempt rates in the trans community is around 40% verses 3% in the population as a whole. I'm sure medical professionals on this thread will back me up given the World Health Organisation lists transsexualism as a gender identity disorder in its current edition of International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD-10): http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2016/en#/F60-F69

These people need medical help rather than being encouraged to stay ill. That is all.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on July 28, 2017, 05:08:54 pm
Some Murican, what was the previous vote that McCain supported?
I thought the video like a week ago of him walking in voting in favour of some bill or other was the whole repeal Obamacare thing, but now I hear he's voted against that bill. Were they two different bills?
Not sure but the latest vote was a skinny vote, to repeal only certain provisions in obamacare.  That vote failed, with 3 republicans voting against. It's a mess right now

Is FSE ✔ the trans ban or ❌?

As someone who experienced people of different Sexual identity in the German army and served side by side with them without any problems, ❌ from me.
American military is different.
I have served with American, british, dutch, belgian, french,lithuanian, polish and even viatnamese soldiers (if you Wonder why: i was in a unit that trained Future Officers Up from the Rank of an Lieutenant) and let me Tell you: The people in the Military are all the Same Kind, No matter where they are from. And i can also Tell you that Most soldiers dont give a shit about how someone Looks Like, where he is from, what is is Sexual identy or anything Else that you can divide people with. As Long as the person does a good Job, No One cares.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on July 28, 2017, 05:09:29 pm
Maybe their suicide rates are so high because people keep calling them mentally ill
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on July 28, 2017, 05:18:34 pm
VomBergen I'm a reservist in the Air Force here I know, but in my ROTC class let's just say it was definitely different then what you may think.. in the sense if someone was gay or trans they would definitely struggle more or have a sense of 'don't ask don't tell'.  Again not in all instances, when it comes down to combat it doesn't matter what you look like or who you are

Maybe their suicide rates are so high because people keep calling them mentally ill
Makes sense, they get bullied more leading to higher depression rates leading to higher suicides
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on July 28, 2017, 05:21:52 pm
VomBergen I'm a reservist in the Air Force here I know, but in my ROTC class let's just say it was definitely different then what you may think.. in the sense if someone was gay or trans they would definitely struggle more or have a sense of 'don't ask don't tell'.  Again not in all instances, when it comes down to combat it doesn't matter what you look like or who you are

Maybe their suicide rates are so high because people keep calling them mentally ill
Makes sense, they get bullied more leading to higher depression rates leading to higher suicides
Of course i never experienced high instances of US Military, so i will believe you on that.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on July 28, 2017, 05:29:15 pm
And btw Steven, I googled ICD-10 and it was started in the 80s and finished in 1992. It's probably not that good a source to use since modern attitudes have changed many people's opinions on transgender individuals. I'm sure, if WHO had a website in the 40s, being gay would have been listed as a mental illness. Doesn't mean that it is imo.

Edit: I may be wrong with the dates btw. That's just what a quick google search threw up
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on July 28, 2017, 05:30:19 pm
Well with all this gene editing technology maybe it's just a mutation in the genome causing someone to be transgender. Who knows
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 28, 2017, 05:47:01 pm
And btw Steven, I googled ICD-10 and it was started in the 80s and finished in 1992. It's probably not that good a source to use since modern attitudes have changed many people's opinions on transgender individuals. I'm sure, if WHO had a website in the 40s, being gay would have been listed as a mental illness. Doesn't mean that it is imo.

Edit: I may be wrong with the dates btw. That's just what a quick google search threw up

Last update was 2016.


Maybe their suicide rates are so high because people keep calling them mentally ill
Makes sense, they get bullied more leading to higher depression rates leading to higher suicides
[/quote]

Not to 40% though-these people have mental problems let's just accept that and move on. They're probably not much use in combat and would introduce a significant weakness into their unit.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on July 28, 2017, 06:01:18 pm
I mean they should be able to live however they want to live. As I said, being gay was previously viewed as a mental disorder, that doesn't mean that he is.

Also the combat effectiveness thing isn't true. Von Bergen stated that he's trained with transgender people and has seen no difference between them and other people who identify with their birth gender.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on July 28, 2017, 07:09:05 pm
A decorated navy seal who has been in more tours than you could count is transgender... so I wouldn't say that
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on July 28, 2017, 07:20:09 pm
Trans people are mentally ill and clearly unfit to serve in the military.

Objectively this. People with diseases that make them a liability to other soldiers and themselves have been barred from military service in the past (even people with diabetes type 1, which is the genetic sort), so I see no reason why this specific mental illness should be given a free pass.

This is of course because transgender people are ill, and are a liability to others and themselves - and I honestly approached this topic with an open mind when it first came to prominence. After watching countless interviews with the afflicted (did anyone catch the one with Ben Shapiro on Dr Drew's show? That one was scary!) and looking at the suicide statistics, their illness cannot be disputed.

Speaking of the suicide rates: suicides for transgender people have always been sky high, even in "safe environments" where other people treated the afflicted with the "proper" pronouns and no cases of "transphobia" have been reported.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 28, 2017, 07:22:19 pm
He didn't actually explicitly say whether he'd trained with transsexuals (would be odd if he did indeed do so since they're fairly rare-for example US military has 2.1 million active and reserve personnel, and estimated to have 11,000 transsexuals among them, which is 0.57%). He didn't say if he'd trained with the Swedish military though so there's still time.

Whatever the case I wouldn't want to fight alongside a transsexual unless I had to, same with women who shouldn't be given combat roles. Should be fairly obvious from even an amateur study of evolutionary biology that the males of mammal species have evolved to do the fighting.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on July 28, 2017, 07:31:38 pm
He did say exactly that Steven. I don't understand how transgender people are a liability to others. Please explain. As I have previously mentioned, this is the exact same as being gay. People being told they're I'll just because they're different. In the past being gay was considered a mental illness which it obviously isn't. It's the same with transgender people.

They're not committing suicide because of they're ill but because they're not receiving the help they need in regards to coming to terms with who they want to be. You can't force someone to be a certain way. Just like you can't force a gay person to be straight, you can't force a transgender person to be comfortable in their gender of birth.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on July 28, 2017, 09:55:53 pm
Coming back on the Transgender thing:

There are extensive psychological evaluations for every aspiring service member and people cn get re-evaluated during service if their superior sees fit as such (through a process). They check mostly for emotional and mental stability. I imagine it would be rare if a person who wants to or has transitioned to be emotionally stable enough to serve in combat roles let alone be stable enough to go on deployment.

DUring selection, most countries have the requirement that you have to be at the time of applying, be fit to serve 6 months overseas without depency on medicine. This is the part where you lose transgender people. If thye transition in service they won't go on deployment. IF and when those people are suitable for combat again, they can be and sometimes will be.

I do not see a single problem wrong with that. The arguments I have seen pass on the News and on Facebook are all emotional because people are 'afraid' of transgenders and usually just being bigots. The argument of 'it will destroy group cohesion'  is null and void. Tell those soldiers to suck it up and act tough. At worst, transfer the transitioned to another unit. In due time, they will integrate. If a soldier proves himself in the group, anyone will be accepted. Be a pain and you're out, regardless of preference or background.

As for my personal opinion? I think everyone who can and wants to serve The Netherlands, is fit to do so and can pull their weight in the group and does match qualifications and requirements can join and be an asset to my country.
Were I to make it there and I have my own platoon in the future, I'd not think of a transgender differently than anyone else. again, provided they're professionals.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on July 28, 2017, 10:49:30 pm
I'm really confused who fraudbear is talking to. Did I miss a ww2 argument? 😕
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on July 28, 2017, 10:50:19 pm
Because if you were to be going by that standard, then every single European Nation-state from the 30s to the 80s would be fucking socialist.

There are less than a handful nation-states in Europe, the two most notable ones being Italy and Denmark. And as for the latter, yes, they're socialist. So are most North-Western European countries and all of Scandinavia.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on July 28, 2017, 10:52:48 pm
I don't know anything about Dutch politics Riddlez but I've heard the netherlands is socialist? Is that true?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on July 28, 2017, 11:01:54 pm
Trans people are mentally ill and clearly unfit to serve in the military. Suicide attempt rates in the trans community is around 40% verses 3% in the population as a whole. I'm sure medical professionals on this thread will back me up given the World Health Organisation lists transsexualism as a gender identity disorder in its current edition of International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD-10): http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2016/en#/F60-F69

These people need medical help rather than being encouraged to stay ill. That is all.
Steven you're back to talking utter shit again.
The ICD is purely a method by which peoples' overall condition is described, including social situation (where under sexuality). If you haven't noticed, just a little further down the page fetishism and voyeurism are described, but I don't feel that anyone here would classify people with those particular sexual interests as mentally ill.
You're not encouraging them to stay "ill" by allowing them to serve in the armed forces, nor can any "medical help" short of surgery impact them. If you recall we stopped the whole "gay conversion" thing a while ago when we realised it was torture and (like torture) achieved nothing.

There is no evidence that transgender individuals have any "weakness" in them any more than any other soldier. You're making baseless claims that they are "not much use in combat". I'm curious as to where you're getting that from, as it sounds like a personal anecdote, but I somehow doubt that.

Moving on, even if it were a mental health condition, you're essentially saying that nobody with a mental health problem may serve in the military, regardless of impact on performance.
What about everyone who's depressed? What about people with dysthymia? What about low mood? You're going to exclude 90% of all military applicants if you go down that road.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on July 28, 2017, 11:11:09 pm
I don't know anything about Dutch politics Riddlez but I've heard the netherlands is socialist? Is that true?

I'm not entirely sure what counts as 'socialist state' in your books, but I'd argue the Netherlands isn't. Our current government are centre-right, classical liberals and conservatives. We do not have a single payer healthcare system like the UK, instead private insurance companies offer healthcare here. Our welfare system is extensive, but not as much as some of the Scandinavian models. Capitalism reigns supreme, the Netherlands is in fact a tax haven for a lot of international businesses.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on July 28, 2017, 11:13:05 pm
Speaking of health insurance, can anyone explain the Swiss health insurance system to me?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on July 28, 2017, 11:23:56 pm
I don't know anything about Dutch politics Riddlez but I've heard the netherlands is socialist? Is that true?

I'm not entirely sure what counts as 'socialist state' in your books, but I'd argue the Netherlands isn't. Our current government are centre-right, classical liberals and conservatives. We do not have a single payer healthcare system like the UK, instead private insurance companies offer healthcare here. Our welfare system is extensive, but not as much as some of the Scandinavian models. Capitalism reigns supreme, the Netherlands is in fact a tax haven for a lot of international businesses.
Ah fair enough I must be thinking of somewhere else :)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on July 29, 2017, 12:22:34 am
What does everyone think about North Korea's latest missile test?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on July 29, 2017, 02:28:55 am
Capitalism reigns supreme, the Netherlands is in fact a tax haven for a lot of international businesses.

Sounds like a country done right, especially given the hefty tax rates in the rest of Scandinavia.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on July 29, 2017, 03:30:01 am
Capitalism reigns supreme, the Netherlands is in fact a tax haven for a lot of international businesses.

Sounds like a country done right, especially given the hefty tax rates in the rest of Scandinavia.

We have a lower corporate tax than the US lel.
Also the US was on the verge of bankruptcy and currently have the largest debt in the history of man.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on July 29, 2017, 03:56:42 am
I like the way labour want to do things. The thing is that they get slated for taxing corporations too much even though their new plans will still have it at the lowest in the G7
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on July 29, 2017, 11:28:09 am
Capitalism reigns supreme, the Netherlands is in fact a tax haven for a lot of international businesses.

Sounds like a country done right, especially given the hefty tax rates in the rest of Scandinavia.
Netherlands and "the Rest of scandinavia"?  ???
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on July 29, 2017, 11:45:26 am
The Netherlands can indeed be counted as socialist. Mind you, we're not red, though definitely 'redder' than most other countries.
There is a considerable amount of government influence almost everywhere. Sure, we're pretty much a tax haven, but there is a lot of oversight and the power the Unions have is still, in spite of what people sometimes say, considerable.

Don't forget that it was only in 2006 that free market rule was introduced to our healthcare system.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on July 29, 2017, 11:57:27 am
Thing is, welfare and government influence are no longer exclusively socialist point of views over here. Even Wilders, as right wing as it gets over here, is in favour of some form of a welfare state with government intervention.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on July 29, 2017, 12:39:43 pm
Capitalism reigns supreme, the Netherlands is in fact a tax haven for a lot of international businesses.

Sounds like a country done right, especially given the hefty tax rates in the rest of Scandinavia.
Netherlands and "the Rest of scandinavia"?  ???

Late night post, *Scandinavia hahaha
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on July 29, 2017, 12:45:05 pm
Capitalism reigns supreme, the Netherlands is in fact a tax haven for a lot of international businesses.

Sounds like a country done right, especially given the hefty tax rates in the rest of Scandinavia.
Netherlands and "the Rest of scandinavia"?  ???

Late night post, *Scandinavia hahaha
I was mainly talking about that the netherlads are part of the benelux states in central europe while scandinavia is in northern europe :D
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 29, 2017, 01:36:44 pm
I'm really confused who fraudbear is talking to. Did I miss a ww2 argument? 😕

Some conversation we had over two weeks ago that he's now randomly getting back into again. Cba to argue, everything I said last time still stands.

The Netherlands can indeed be counted as socialist.

Lol what-you're as confused as Bernie Sanders (also a social democrat who thinks he's a socialist). Dutch system is a centrist model that leans towards social democracy. I don't think it's recognised as a socialist country by Socialist International or any other such organisation. As you say yourself your healthcare system is based on the free market for a start...

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 29, 2017, 03:16:55 pm
If you haven't noticed, just a little further down the page fetishism and voyeurism are described, but I don't feel that anyone here would classify people with those particular sexual interests as mentally ill.

Well I would given voyeurism is illegal and it depends on the fetish (many can be classed as mental disorders).

There is no evidence that transgender individuals have any "weakness" in them any more than any other soldier. You're making baseless claims that they are "not much use in combat". I'm curious as to where you're getting that from, as it sounds like a personal anecdote, but I somehow doubt that.

I never found myself in a combat situation surrounded by transsexuals, no.
The mental health of transsexuals is questionable and therefore you don't give them weapons, and nor do you put them into combat.

Moving on, even if it were a mental health condition, you're essentially saying that nobody with a mental health problem may serve in the military, regardless of impact on performance.
What about everyone who's depressed? What about people with dysthymia? What about low mood? You're going to exclude 90% of all military applicants if you go down that road.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, and depression and other such mental health conditions already excludes you from military service in the UK and other countries.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on July 29, 2017, 04:57:01 pm
I like the way labour want to do things. The thing is that they get slated for taxing corporations too much even though their new plans will still have it at the lowest in the G7

This is why people start making "money tree" jokes directed at Corbyn, though. I read Labour's manifesto and found myself wondering how they're going to fund their army of freshly recruited public workers.

Sounds like a lot of debt to me.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on July 29, 2017, 05:04:46 pm
The thing is though is that Labour's manifesto was entirely costed and the conservatives wasn't. Probably cos all they wanted to do was cut everything  ::)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on July 29, 2017, 05:11:03 pm
The mental health of transsexuals is questionable

That is a massive blanket statement and I really wanna how you got to that conclusion.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on July 29, 2017, 05:55:19 pm
The thing is though is that Labour's manifesto was entirely costed and the conservatives wasn't. Probably cos all they wanted to do was cut everything  ::)

Two sides of a leftist coin I'm afraid.

At least Corbyn admits he's left-wing, he gets some points for that.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on July 29, 2017, 06:15:18 pm
Nothing wrong with being left wing. IMO he stands for something good and gives people hope in a world that is kind of lacking in that department in recent times. His policies give equal opportunity and makes sure everyone in our society is looked after, something  which a civilised country should pride itself on.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on July 29, 2017, 06:19:32 pm
I meant that the Tories, at best, are neoliberals. I like to think that them using the name "Conservatives" is a bad joke on their part.

His policies give equal opportunity and makes sure everyone in our society is looked after, something which a civilised country should pride itself on.

That's easier said than done. I think he has a habit of making a lot of empty promises. Live liberal, vote conservative  ;)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on July 29, 2017, 06:24:02 pm
Lol what-you're as confused as Bernie Sanders (also a social democrat who thinks he's a socialist). Dutch system is a centrist model that leans towards social democracy. I don't think it's recognised as a socialist country by Socialist International or any other such organisation. As you say yourself your healthcare system is based on the free market for a start...

I wouldn't go as far as calling the NL a socialist state, what I meant was socialist, as in having a lot of socialist tendencies. Healthcare is one aspect of that, but the amount of government intervention in especially the lower social classes is, compared to a lot of other countries, quite substantial. Decades of Labour rule some time ago made this happen and Christian Democrat rule, sometimes interrupted by Labour rule, further enforced this (which is weird because that particular Christian Democrat are right-leaning, at least by our standards).

Then again, all of the NL is left in some way. Even the liberal party is pro some measure of social safety nets.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on July 29, 2017, 06:35:11 pm
I meant that the Tories, at best, are neoliberals. I like to think that them using the name "Conservatives" is a bad joke on their part.

His policies give equal opportunity and makes sure everyone in our society is looked after, something which a civilised country should pride itself on.

That's easier said than done. I think he has a habit of making a lot of empty promises. Live liberal, vote conservative  ;)
I get that it's a lot to aim for but better to strive for something good than never try at all
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 29, 2017, 07:00:31 pm
The mental health of transsexuals is questionable

That is a massive blanket statement and I really wanna how you got to that conclusion.

I personally believe transsexualism is a mental health issue the same way anorexia is. Effective treatment for these delusions does not mean affirming them with sex-change surgery or whatnot because the patient will never be satisfied, the same way an anorexic will always think they're fat no matter how thin they get.

According to the studies I've read transsexuals who undergo surgery are 20 times more likely than the general population to commit suicide. For transsexuals who don't undergo surgery it's 10 times more likely. This would lead to the conclusion that a) surgery is not an effective treatment, and b) this is fundamentally a mental illness and those more mentally disturbed than others who have gone so far as to seek surgery are more likely to commit suicide.

When it comes to children and transsexualism I think making them undergo treatment is child abuse. Again the studies I've read suggest that 70-80% of children with transsexual feelings and gender confusion stop being confused by the time they're adults. Knowing that I think any doctor who administers puberty delaying drugs to a confused child is guilty of child abuse.

I think the suicide rates also suggest this is a case of people being mentally disturbed. For LGB people the suicide rate is four times greater than average, and for transsexuals it's 10 times more (and for those who undergo surgery it's 20x). It can't all be down to discrimination given the massive gap between LGB and transsexuals.   
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on July 29, 2017, 09:01:25 pm
Linking suicide to mental illness is vastly overgeneralising. Yes, being suicidal is a mentall illness, since in the DSM 5 a prerequisite for any mental disorder is it hindering you fullfilling your day-to-day lives (this is why fetishes are not a mental disorder, they only become so as soon as fetishists cannot reach orgasm without involving their fetish). People who are suicidal are depressed, this cuases them not to function. The cause of the depression is irrelevant in the diagnose.

Linking increased suicide rates under transgenders and LGB is correlation, there is no causation whatsoever.
In the Netherlands, students have a significantly increased chance to kill themselves. By your logic Dutch students are mentally ill.

Transgenders who did not yet undergo treatment can get depressed and it usually happens, this is because of they can't be who they feel they can be which leads to depression.
The reason people who did undergo surgery face a disproportionate amount of discrimination and social exclusion, which leads to depression very fast.


As I said, anyone who is mentally and emotionally stable is allowed to serve and should be allowed to serve. If there are transgenders, queers or travestites, who are emotionally stable and fit to serve, why should they be declined just because they are what they are? Being transgender isn't any more of a mental disorder than beign gay, and I hope to god that we've moved past that point by now.

When it comes to children and transsexualism I think making them undergo treatment is child abuse. Again the studies I've read suggest that 70-80% of children with transsexual feelings and gender confusion stop being confused by the time they're adults. Knowing that I think any doctor who administers puberty delaying drugs to a confused child is guilty of child abuse.

This is a tricky point. Doctors know the statistics. I am not aware of other EU countries but here, Doctors will strongly advise against gender reassignment treatment with underage children. This doesn't mean they can refuse. And your case of child abuse doesn't really fly, considering people have medical self-determination at a younger age than other areas to which the term child abuse applies.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on July 29, 2017, 10:21:34 pm
Hmm, interesting... it has never been taught me any differently than as I explained. I will look into it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 29, 2017, 11:24:34 pm
Wtf Riddlez I pointed that out to you loads of times lol.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on July 29, 2017, 11:49:58 pm
Trans people are mentally ill and clearly unfit to serve in the military. Suicide attempt rates in the trans community is around 40% verses 3% in the population as a whole. I'm sure medical professionals on this thread will back me up given the World Health Organisation lists transsexualism as a gender identity disorder in its current edition of International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD-10): http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2016/en#/F60-F69

These people need medical help rather than being encouraged to stay ill. That is all.
Steven you're back to talking utter shit again.
The ICD is purely a method by which peoples' overall condition is described, including social situation (where under sexuality). If you haven't noticed, just a little further down the page fetishism and voyeurism are described, but I don't feel that anyone here would classify people with those particular sexual interests as mentally ill.
You're not encouraging them to stay "ill" by allowing them to serve in the armed forces, nor can any "medical help" short of surgery impact them. If you recall we stopped the whole "gay conversion" thing a while ago when we realised it was torture and (like torture) achieved nothing.

There is no evidence that transgender individuals have any "weakness" in them any more than any other soldier. You're making baseless claims that they are "not much use in combat". I'm curious as to where you're getting that from, as it sounds like a personal anecdote, but I somehow doubt that.

Moving on, even if it were a mental health condition, you're essentially saying that nobody with a mental health problem may serve in the military, regardless of impact on performance.
What about everyone who's depressed? What about people with dysthymia? What about low mood? You're going to exclude 90% of all military applicants if you go down that road.
I would also like to see sources that are showing 'weaknesses' of transgenders in the military.  Although I will say there are obviously enough sources for weaknesses with women in combat roles, that I would say are more important to look at than the transgender issue. 
Lol I remember taking the TAPAS test at MEPS my first time, its like a personality test (easy to pass) that have questions like which parent do you prefer, mother or father?, do you excel more than your peers?, etc... But yea besides that much else psychologically that evaluates new recruits
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on July 29, 2017, 11:56:22 pm
So what're your thoughts on the ban Karth?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on July 30, 2017, 12:10:54 am
So what're your thoughts on the ban Karth?
I think it's wrong, this is a full ban on transgender, forget combat roles, but if any American wants to serve their country they should be given that opportunity (as long as they pass the obvious physical and other requirements).  That said I'm not knowledgable on people who identify as transgender and I think the ban was geared more towards the government not being able to pay for transgender military personnel healthcare costs..
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on July 30, 2017, 10:15:53 am
I think the ban was geared more towards the government not being able to pay for transgender military personnel healthcare costs..

Which would be ridiculous... the government paying for what, strictly speaking, wouldn't be a completely nessecary investment for the employability of the military person. That said, it is such a negligible sum of money... if it helps these people, why not? one could argue. I personally don't. Pay for it yourself.

I was curious how the Dutch military handles cases like this, as all treatments covered by the military are listed. It says nothing specifically about gender reassignment but I did find something on plastic surgery... which states that treatments coming forth from personaly preference will not be covered. They basically say that they'll only perform plastic surgery on victoms of maiming and mutilation, which isn't really a major suprise for military personnel.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on July 31, 2017, 04:19:43 am
This map cracks me up, 'highest per capita computer manufacturing output' is the most awesome thing about Idaho apparently.

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_t6rV3U9ZEHM%2FTUGhM_aaXaI%2FAAAAAAAA__Y%2FlRf4szLX0zI%2Fs640%2Funited-states-of-awesome-14515-1296143312-4.jpg&hash=be6d77b4a4dccfa529bab272313051b3aa4ef0df)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on July 31, 2017, 01:53:48 pm
Careful there Oklahoma and New Mexico, you're outshining the other states with your impressive archievements.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on July 31, 2017, 04:08:16 pm
The union may have taken Arizona's slaves, but it'll never take their sun.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on July 31, 2017, 04:29:17 pm
Pennsylvania most hunters, sounds about right (went hunting yesterday with my new Remington lmfao)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on August 01, 2017, 12:01:37 am
Pennsylvania most hunters, sounds about right (went hunting yesterday with my new Remington lmfao)
Michigan hunting>Pennsylvania hunting
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 01, 2017, 11:30:17 am
Well, well, well...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/31/macron-email-leak-british-military-ties-france-important-flawed/

Personally I'd completely pull of out of co-operation with France and send the troops to Eastern Europe instead. You don't come to London, threaten the British economy, then expect British soldiers to go out of their way to die for your country.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 01, 2017, 11:43:52 am
Is there another source which doesn't require you to sign up to anything to actually read the entire thing?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 01, 2017, 12:57:17 pm
Should be free to read: http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/835161/Macron-leaks-Brexit-Britain-France-most-important-EU-military-ally
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 01, 2017, 01:28:04 pm
Interesting. Some good leverage for Brexit I suppose.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 01, 2017, 02:10:37 pm
Well more importantly it shows that the rest of the EU doesn't much trust Germany and for good reason. Owing to their war guilt, which infects every level of German society, they don't make good military allies as it's very difficult for a German Chancellor to authorise military action abroad. They sometimes send 1000 men here or there as part of wider NATO peacekeeping efforts but that's about as far as the German public will allow it to go.

So you can imagine that a serious military power like France would be very wary of integrating their armed forces with Germany since that would give Berlin a veto over military action abroad. The whole thing is just asking for trouble-if there's a serious need for France to send troops somewhere but the German Chancellor says no (either because they're a pacifist or can't win over public opinion) then you can imagine the uproar. Similarly if Berlin says yes and Germans start coming back in body bags after fighting for French interests in West Africa there'll be a similar uproar in Germany.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 01, 2017, 02:19:55 pm
Meh I am all for Germany being allies... But that is more because of cultural and doctrine similiarities with us than anything else.

I do not know how much of this is publicly obivous, but Germany's mandates where they are deployed, are ridiculous.

Usually mandates are thoughly devided like this (NATO setting):
- The U.S. is veerywhere and is involved in every aspect of the war
- So are the Britis
- The French do pretty much whatever the fuck they want. Usually Belgium plays along
- THe Italians only do something if they care.
- The Dutch (and usually Denmark as wel) have a small yet significant contribution, and are peculiarly free in their mandate. The Dutch get spammed with Air Mission requests from the Brits and US.\

 - Somewhere Australia is doing their thing. Nobody knows what they're doing there and they are usually GB's bitch. A common relieve party for the Dutch, Germans, or English

- Germany is technically there, but their mandates are sooo narrow they are usually not even allowed off-base.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on August 01, 2017, 02:39:56 pm
It's fine, we have been occupying Germany for decades, will keep an eye on them
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 01, 2017, 03:08:35 pm
It's fine, we have been occupying Germany for decades, will keep an eye on them

Given that the vast majority of white Americans share a German ancestry, perhaps it is them that have been occupying you?¿?¿?¿?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 01, 2017, 04:16:19 pm
It's fine, we have been occupying Germany for decades, will keep an eye on them

Given that the vast majority of white Americans share a German ancestry, perhaps it is them that have been occupying you?¿?¿?¿?
That is so next level
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 01, 2017, 04:17:19 pm
Meh I am all for Germany being allies... But that is more because of cultural and doctrine similiarities with us than anything else.

I do not know how much of this is publicly obivous, but Germany's mandates where they are deployed, are ridiculous.

Usually mandates are thoughly devided like this (NATO setting):
- The U.S. is veerywhere and is involved in every aspect of the war
- So are the Britis
- The French do pretty much whatever the fuck they want. Usually Belgium plays along
- THe Italians only do something if they care.
- The Dutch (and usually Denmark as wel) have a small yet significant contribution, and are peculiarly free in their mandate. The Dutch get spammed with Air Mission requests from the Brits and US.\

 - Somewhere Australia is doing their thing. Nobody knows what they're doing there and they are usually GB's bitch. A common relieve party for the Dutch, Germans, or English

- Germany is technically there, but their mandates are sooo narrow they are usually not even allowed off-base.

Even more reason why an integrated EU military cannot work as it relies too much on Germany. Come back in 50+ years when Germans are less ashamed of 1914-1918 and 1933-1945.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 01, 2017, 04:53:38 pm
Wait what happened in those years?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 01, 2017, 06:20:05 pm

Even more reason why an integrated EU military cannot work as it relies too much on Germany. Come back in 50+ years when Germans are less ashamed of 1914-1918 and 1933-1945.

Yeah this is what I have been saying to everyone who is so pro-EU military. IT won't work because of too many reasons, andthose are only military and practical. Never mind the legal reasons.

I all for increased cooperation, on the level we see between Germany and the NL andthe NL and Belgium. But that is among equals in doctrine and all are a symbiotic cooperation. Carelessly generalising this will destroy more than it builds.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 01, 2017, 08:18:10 pm
http://www.dailywire.com/news/19183/yikes-white-house-officials-duped-lazy-anarchist-james-barrett


I think every single US politician needs to be given a middle-school level class on e-safety and the use of email.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 01, 2017, 08:40:41 pm
Been following that guy for a while, he's managed to trick Diane Abbott, Norman Tebbitt and a load of bank CEOs.
https://order-order.com/2017/06/06/diane-abbott-apparently-duped-alleged-email-prankster/

For some reason she was stupid enough to hand over confidential medical information as well orchestrating a bullshit excuse for several terrible media interviews.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 01, 2017, 09:52:28 pm
Fantastic
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: fruitocino on August 02, 2017, 12:33:48 am
Even more reason why an integrated EU military cannot work as it relies too much on Germany. Come back in 50+ years when Germans are less ashamed of 1914-1918 and 1933-1945.
1914-18, nothing to be ashamed of really except a not very bright emperor.
For an EU military to work Germany would obviously have to adjust their legislation, but I don't think an EU military would be a good idea anyway; every country should be able to decide whether they want to deploy or not, just like in the past.
On another note I wish the EU would focus more on economic cooperation and interfere less with politics of individual member states. That is kind of what it was founded for, and "peace in Europe" of course.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 02, 2017, 01:35:21 am
I mean European military cooperation has gone as far as it probably will go. We all already work together on UN and NATO missions. Combining armed forces would probably just add another layer of political bullshit and shit stirring between the major European powers. We've already seen how much the UK, France and Germany love to chat shit about each other during the Brexit negotiations.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 02, 2017, 11:46:33 am
Even more reason why an integrated EU military cannot work as it relies too much on Germany. Come back in 50+ years when Germans are less ashamed of 1914-1918 and 1933-1945.
1914-18, nothing to be ashamed of really except a not very bright emperor.

Given Germany was constantly stirring things up in the run up to 1914 and desired a war before the Russians fully modernised, they are mostly to blame for WWI. German High Command even sabotaged the Kaiser's peace efforts when he wobbled and began to think war was a bad idea.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 02, 2017, 12:15:00 pm
To be fair to Germany, Britain and France had been stiring up war across the entire world for hundreds of years. I'd say Imperialism was the main cause of WW1 and not just Germany's.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 02, 2017, 03:07:27 pm
Germany went to great lengths to ensure a war in 1914 whilst the other main powers in Europe didn't much want a conflict.
-It was Germany who gave Austria-Hungary a blank cheque
-It was Germany who ensured Austro-Hungarian demands on the Serbs were enormous in the deliberate hope they'd be rejected and thus be a cause for war
-It was Germany who was surprised when the Serbs largely accepted those demands, and was then furious to learn Austria-Hungary was tempted to go for a diplomatic solution
-It was Germany who then forced Austria-Hungary to go for a military solution
-Germany was the only country which rejected the (extremely reasonable) British peace plan in July
 
 You can make a case it wasn't Germany's fault but I find it a rather weak argument. Most historians assign Berlin the majority of the blame:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26048324
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 02, 2017, 04:56:08 pm
So did the treaty of Versailles, which could be a argued to be a cause of WW2. Swings and roundabouts
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 02, 2017, 05:10:40 pm
This isn't a historical discussion-thread.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 02, 2017, 05:26:53 pm
I wish the EU would focus more on economic cooperation and interfere less with politics of individual member states. That is kind of what it was founded for, and "peace in Europe" of course.

Pretty much all the EU has focused on is economy-related and they haven't really meddled directly with national politics... because they can't. Of course they have made comments about it in parliament but nobody really listens to that. The only thing they've begun to really interfere with is Poland, adn that shit is from last week.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on August 02, 2017, 05:40:38 pm
Wait so remind me again why we don't want the people in charge of military intervention to be cautious?
I seem to recall something involving Iraq a little while ago?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 02, 2017, 05:58:13 pm
This isn't a historical discussion-thread.
We're discussing something which directly relates to the reasons behind Germany's political motivations in modern-day Europe. Not like it's off topic.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 02, 2017, 06:33:05 pm
Wait so remind me again why we don't want the people in charge of military intervention to be cautious?
I seem to recall something involving Iraq a little while ago?

There's cautious and then there's German level cautious-even when they get deployed the kind of restraints they're under makes it pointless them being there (in Afghanistan they weren't allowed to pro-actively engage the enemy and had to wait to be shot at first).

I wish the EU would focus more on economic cooperation and interfere less with politics of individual member states. That is kind of what it was founded for, and "peace in Europe" of course.

Pretty much all the EU has focused on is economy-related and they haven't really meddled directly with national politics... because they can't. Of course they have made comments about it in parliament but nobody really listens to that. The only thing they've begun to really interfere with is Poland, adn that shit is from last week.

The EU is constantly interfering in national politics what are you talking about? They're currently demanding Eastern Europe takes in significant numbers of economic migrants after Merkel's fuck up.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 02, 2017, 07:04:24 pm
Then they are free to leave. Nobody forces membership upon anyone.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 02, 2017, 07:59:32 pm
Lol, if EU bureaucrats shared your naive attitude the EU wouldn't last until Christmas.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on August 02, 2017, 08:10:13 pm
Wait so remind me again why we don't want the people in charge of military intervention to be cautious?
I seem to recall something involving Iraq a little while ago?

There's cautious and then there's German level cautious-even when they get deployed the kind of restraints they're under makes it pointless them being there (in Afghanistan they weren't allowed to pro-actively engage the enemy and had to wait to be shot at first).


Yeah because that is how you Work in a guerilla war man. We are Not Back in fucking Vietnam where you Just Napalm the Shit Out of a Village because you suspect enemys in there. In most cases you can Not Tell one of the afghans is a Taliban because they Look the Same Like civilians apart from theire AK-47. So If you dont See a weapon you cant Just shoot them. And that is Just for the people without weapons. When i was in the army our Sarge, who has been to Afghanistan several Times, showed us a Video he filmed on a patrol: Because it is a Civil/Guerilla war Most of the people there carry weapons with them to protect themself in a dailly Routine (remembers me of some big Nation in the northern Part of the American continent eh?).
So the conclusion is: Shooting people only after they attack you is the only sane conclusion in a country Like Afghanistan.
You need to Interpret facts, Just reproducing them is the Work of a child.
 
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 02, 2017, 08:39:05 pm
(in Afghanistan they weren't allowed to pro-actively engage the enemy and had to wait to be shot at first).

This was the ROE for all the countries almost all the time. Only in pre-planned assualts the ROE is different.

Mandates are constricted in different ways. Being the kind of missions you want to go on, the type of gear you are allowed to bring, what weapons you can use at what time, etc.
THere's a lot more to mandate than ROE and the ROE is determined theatre-wide. In Afghanistan (as with every insurgency) the ROE is based upon international law. When you are not fighting a state, you do not have a clearly marked and uniformed enemy. So the only people you can engage are combatants. Civilians are only combatants during and only for the time they are taking part in hostilities. After that you are not allowed to engage them, only to apprehend and arrest them for terrorism/murder. Rules the U.S. breaks often and it is the basis of why Gitmo is illegal. The U.S. claims the prisoners there are POWs, but they can't be because they're not uniformed enemy combatants) So Germany's ROE was the same as ours, or the English. For lack of German mandate, Afghanistan is a bad example, they were reasonably sorted at the time. The Kurd training mission is a far better example:

- Americans/Brits: no limitations, were active on front line
- Italians: not allowed to come within 15km from front line, even for supllies, they had to make a 40km detour in logistical lines.
- Dutch: were not allowed to take heavy weapons (.50 machine guns, anti-armour weapons) because of the training nature of the mission, even though this was request by mission commander.
- Germans: were not allowed to leave their compound on the airport. They served only a training purpose there and deplpyed no other actions where every other nation did.
- French: did whatever they wanted, but chose not to go to the front too much.

We are Not Back in fucking Vietnam where you Just Napalm the Shit Out of a Village because you suspect enemys in there.

False, this actually did happen, just not with napalm.

And not to bitch too much, it's an insurgency, not a civil war.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on August 02, 2017, 09:03:44 pm
@Riddlez my Point was that in Vietnam bombing a whole town Just because of a few suspects was a dailly Basic while in Afghanistan its Seen as a war crime mostly
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 02, 2017, 09:17:41 pm
Yeah my bad, got that bit wrong. Still stands that they were barred from engaging in offensive operations and limited to little more than peacekeeping.

Then they are free to leave. Nobody forces membership upon anyone.

So it's Merkel's way or the highway?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 02, 2017, 09:18:19 pm
No, it's the European way or the highway.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on August 02, 2017, 09:49:10 pm
The Poles gladly accept every financial benefit they can from the EU but are unwilling to also accept also some of the more negative aspects of the EU. That's not how it works, you're in all the way or you're not. If you don't want to be in all the way, you leave. It's what the UK did.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 02, 2017, 09:50:50 pm
Poland leaving the EU? They'd not make it thourgh winter.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 02, 2017, 10:09:49 pm
The UK's population would drop by 30% with a plumbing crisis and mass flooding ensuing shortly afterwards.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 02, 2017, 10:15:12 pm
No, it's the European way or the highway.

Which just happens to be Merkel's way. One of the best things about Brexit is it magnifies the voting power of the Visegrad group (have fun with them). The Dutch, Germans and other more naturally free trading countries will miss the British voice at the table too so you'll see more French derived, EU protectionist measures.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 02, 2017, 10:29:00 pm
Nobody fucking likes British people anyway Steven
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on August 02, 2017, 10:34:49 pm
Nobody fucking likes British people anyway Steven
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 02, 2017, 10:44:31 pm
Nobody fucking likes British people anyway Steven
At first I thought Steven quoted this
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on August 02, 2017, 11:34:02 pm
The Poles gladly accept every financial benefit they can from the EU but are unwilling to also accept also some of the more negative aspects of the EU. That's not how it works, you're in all the way or you're not. If you don't want to be in all the way, you leave. It's what the UK did.

Its almost like the nature of the beast has changed from an economic partnership to a full on pseudo government imposing its will on member states with threats of sanctions and a struggle if they try to leave it. Its like saying once you've agreed to kiss someone, you are full in "all the way" and have no right to complain once they are holding you down and pulling down your pants.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 03, 2017, 12:20:50 am
Uhm... you do know the current Polish government is quickly going towards an autocracy ya?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 03, 2017, 11:01:37 am
Uhm... you do know the current Polish government is quickly going towards an autocracy ya?

Total rubbish. They just want to reform the judicial system (which has problems with corruption and political bias) and have greater political control over appointment of judges. It depends on what they do with the powers but this is hardly approaching an autocracy. And the irony of the EU complaining about the 'death of democracy'...

I think this is all very selective and politically motivated. Nobody in Brussels gives a shit about Madrid denying Catalonia a vote on independence but suddenly a Polish government hostile to Tusk wants to reform the judiciary and they're all over it.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 03, 2017, 11:22:47 am
By the way, Poland actually voted in favour of the resettlement policy yet is now screaming everything is unfair. Even if they had voted against it, the vote in the European Council was strictly according to the rules. There is nothing undemocratic or unfair about the resettlement policy. The choice is between accepting a legitimate decision that was undertaken by rules all members states have agreed with before joining, or deciding that European Union membership is not in your best interest and thus invoking article 50. They're free to choose.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 03, 2017, 02:42:14 pm
Well the good news is Brussels can't bully Poland so easily given Hungary has said it will veto Article 7, and if they don't do it then other allied states will. Next big EU split is West vs East, especially when all that British cash dries up and they don't have a big enough bribe for France *and* Eastern Europe. I think we can assume Paris will demand the money and won't take no for an answer-the French talk of "Europe" only when it suits them, just look at Macron. Talked big about how pro-European he was during his election campaign, then just weeks after getting elected blocks the Italians from buying French infrastructure and goes protectionist.

I think the only solution to the EU budgetary crisis post-Brexit is to do what they always do and squeeze the Dutch a bit more. They could probably get a majority of countries in favour of that (and if Duuring doesn't like it the Dutch can always leave).

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 03, 2017, 05:11:43 pm
The Dutch won't pay. Not much they'll be able to do about it
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 03, 2017, 05:36:50 pm
The Dutch won't pay. Not much they'll be able to do about it

Then you can leave. Anyone who disobeys the Paris-Berlin stance is anti-European (apparently).
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 03, 2017, 06:07:53 pm
Budget changes must be made by consensus, so we have veto power.  ::)

We just pay like 3,5 % of the European Budget anyway. In fact, I think that will even go down considering we no longer have to pay the British rebate.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 03, 2017, 06:16:17 pm
Steven would you say that the Netherlands are enDuuring the EU?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 03, 2017, 06:25:02 pm
Budget changes must be made by consensus, so we have veto power.  ::)

We just pay like 3,5 % of the European Budget anyway. In fact, I think that will even go down considering we no longer have to pay the British rebate.

You pay more per head than any other EU member state and have done for a very long time. Given the UK is a net contributor I can't see how your bill will go down...
Still, plenty of efficiency savings can be made including not moving that joke of a parliament every month from Brussels to Strasbourg. That's 180 million Euros per year saved right there (oh wait, it's a French interest, never mind).
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 03, 2017, 06:58:28 pm
Just move it to Liechtenstein.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 03, 2017, 07:01:00 pm
Is there even one MEP who doesn't want the moving around stopped? It's such an easy thing to shoot at for EU-haters, yet it's a result of national stupidity, not European wishes.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 03, 2017, 07:31:31 pm
Is there even one MEP who doesn't want the moving around stopped? It's such an easy thing to shoot at for EU-haters, yet it's a result of national stupidity, not European wishes.
Isn't that the core issue with the EU - easily hijacked by individual national stupidity that affects the whole union?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 03, 2017, 07:43:09 pm
Pretty much.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 03, 2017, 07:58:07 pm
Pretty much.
The solution to that would seem to me to be increased national freedom and more decentralization to avoid portions of Belgium being able to dictate trade policy.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 03, 2017, 08:06:36 pm
Is there even one MEP who doesn't want the moving around stopped? It's such an easy thing to shoot at for EU-haters, yet it's a result of national stupidity, not European wishes.
Isn't that the core issue with the EU - easily hijacked by individual national stupidity that affects the whole union?

Well, one of the core issues, but yeah pretty much. Paris suggests that Berlin should tell the others to jump and everyone else asks 'how high?' while the British stand on the sidelines. You've then got people like Duuring who think there should be no alternative to a Franco-German EU (and Duuring, as a Dutch taxpayer, pays for it out of his own pocket too).

Is there even one MEP who doesn't want the moving around stopped? It's such an easy thing to shoot at for EU-haters, yet it's a result of national stupidity, not European wishes.

Excuse me Duuring but it was the EEC (as the EU then was) as a whole that agreed to the French proposal and signed up to this extravagance, so yes it is EU stupidity.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 03, 2017, 08:09:06 pm
Pretty much.
The solution to that would seem to me to be increased national freedom and more decentralization to avoid portions of Belgium being able to dictate trade policy.

A novel idea, but that's not how 'ever closer union' works.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 03, 2017, 08:41:58 pm
You can't have a lot of national power and decentralization and have a single, supranational policy. They're complete opposites of eachother. It's not a 'novel idea', it's just complete bullshit.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 06, 2017, 11:47:41 pm
Aye let's just ignore what the 'ever-expanding money splurging machine doing nothing for us' has done over the years.

I'd be rather curious what'd happen if the NL would leave the EU and the borders close. We'd probably be re-applying after 3 years because everyone will have to wait for hours at the border to go on vacation. And god forbid we experience any inconvenience from anything.

I mean, agree with it or not, but the anti-EU have been painting some Wallhalla-picture of not being in the EU that is completely unrealistic.
Yes I know, a number of Pro_EU has done that as well, but I was speaking for the NL here. They're a little more realistic here.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 07, 2017, 01:40:05 am
God forbid people might be disadvantaged when going on holiday. The only solution is keep 28 unelected technocrats in charge.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 07, 2017, 01:47:30 am
Not just about vacations though is it. Think trade.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 07, 2017, 02:11:26 am
Not just about vacations though is it. Think trade.

Not just about trade though is it. Think legislation.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 07, 2017, 02:30:25 am
Was talking to a family member today who works for EDF. He says that if we leave the EU we'll be forced to renegotiate certain treaties with separate nations in regards to our nuclear fuel. This will take time and, in the mean time, we'll apparently lose a significant portion of our energy production.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 07, 2017, 03:01:22 am
Was talking to a family member today who works for EDF. He says that if we leave the EU we'll be forced to renegotiate certain treaties with separate nations in regards to our nuclear fuel. This will take time and, in the mean time, we'll apparently lose a significant portion of our energy production.
I mean, a few member states already crippled their energy industries in the name of green energy, so if you're worried about losing energy capability blaming any potential EU exit is a definite cop out..
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 07, 2017, 03:03:18 am
Was talking to a family member today who works for EDF. He says that if we leave the EU we'll be forced to renegotiate certain treaties with separate nations in regards to our nuclear fuel. This will take time and, in the mean time, we'll apparently lose a significant portion of our energy production.
I mean, a few member states already crippled their energy industries in the name of green energy, so if you're worried about losing energy capability blaming any potential EU exit is a definite cop out..
Hardly a cop out. The causes of the aforementioned energy loss is directly related to exit from the EU.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 07, 2017, 12:48:33 pm
Not to mention Antwerp and Hamburg will look sufficiently more interesting than Rotterdam.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 07, 2017, 01:32:06 pm
Major win for Poland/Hungary
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/837904/European-Union-EU-tries-mend-fences-East-West-migration

The worst thing you can do is draw a line in the sand, make a threat (Article 7), and then don't go through with it when it's crossed. I'd say the increasing East/West divide is a bigger problem for the EU than Brexit.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 07, 2017, 03:03:47 pm
That's because Brexit isn't our problem. It's all yours.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 07, 2017, 03:06:54 pm
As much as I would agree Duuring that the UK leaving the EU is a bad thing, saying that it's not a problem for the EU is completely wrong.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 07, 2017, 03:22:45 pm
Does it negatively effect us? Of course. But we didn't create the problem, nor do we have anything to do with fixing it. It's pretty obvious the EU wants brexit to be as soft as possible - in fact, we rather wish they didn't leave at all. The whole 'soft-hard-no-yes'-debate is irrelevant to us.

To be fair, I'm somewhat happy Brexit is happening. Either way, it is gonna be thé example for decades to come. If Britain ends up worse, the whole notion of leaving the EU will lose all political credibility. The debate will shift to reforming the EU, and then the great hypocrisy of the Eurosceptics (Complaining it's undemocratic, yet blocking any reform because they want to protect national power) might eventually come back to bite them: A strong wish for a democratic EU is the best way tolead to a directly elected, strong and federal European Union, the exact thing the Eurosceptics are trying to avoid.

Of course, if Britian benefits from Brexit, it will greatly boost the anti-EU sentiments in more memberstates. So all we can really do (and what I most certaintly will be doing), is sit back and wait.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 07, 2017, 06:17:43 pm
No offence Duuring but British eurosceptics have not blocked EU reforms, the position has been clear for a long time which is that the other 27 can do what they want but Britain will probably opt-out of it. We didn't block the creation of the Euro, the Amsterdam/Nice/Lisbon reforms, the ECB bailout packages etc. The country which has used its veto more than any other member state in the history of the EU is of course France.

The only thing the UK has blocked is an EU military, and if we didn't block it a large number of other member states would have. The French are wary of it, Eastern Europe ain't gonna risk NATO and alienating the Americans, German public opinion is fairly hostile...

I don't know how Brexit will turn out-I'm not a fan of Mrs May's negotiating strategy but the UK has avoided all the negative economic forecasts that were supposed to have happened. We were supposed to be in recession by now according to the IMF. I think the UK economy will be bumpy during the transition period but it's not going to be the disaster some people are hoping for. The fall in the value of the £, which a lot of people were getting worked up about last June, has actually been of massive benefit.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 07, 2017, 06:45:29 pm
Having a fallen currency next to a much larger economic power does indeed have its benefits
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Vincenzo on August 09, 2017, 05:34:45 pm
Major win for Poland/Hungary
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/837904/European-Union-EU-tries-mend-fences-East-West-migration

The worst thing you can do is draw a line in the sand, make a threat (Article 7), and then don't go through with it when it's crossed. I'd say the increasing East/West divide is a bigger problem for the EU than Brexit.
What major win exactly? Poland is about to turn into a undemocratic dictatorial state ruled by the PiS party (voted by 19% of adult population, with many regret) The PiS party itself is ruled by a single guy, Lech Kaczyński, any negative voice within their party gets removed, by now he only has Yes men running around him..
The party is reforming all aspects of life in the country, All government and semi government agencies and even the media have been reformed, any non party member is removed from any office, director, advisory position, the media is now only showing pro PiS news, and the newspapers and tv replicate propaganda level of the soviet union times.
The only block still in their way of absolute control was the courts, which have judges voted on by other judges, from now on however all head judges, and even minor judges in all courts can be freely removed and replaced on a whim by the PiS party.
On top of this the focus point of the PiS party is tradition, Catholicism and absolute control. They even recently banned the ability to get the day after pill, they completely banned any form of abortion, even if your baby is already dead, or if you will die if you keep the child, also if you are raped you cannot abort.
They are also moving to rewrite the Polish constitution to make a irreversible effect to the country.
After their reforms it will be impossible for any new democratic free election, because they will also hold all power over the voting process, the counting and the judges deciding if the vote was democratic..

Why should EU NOT draw a line in the sand?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 09, 2017, 07:10:03 pm
A hysterical reaction to what is basically just PiS taking on cultural Marxism in Poland.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 09, 2017, 07:29:46 pm
Interested to see what'll happen in the coming weeks in regards to the Americans and North Korea. Trading threats has been the name of the game in recent days ever since some analysts claim that North Korea have succeeded in creating a Nuclear weapon capable of reaching anyone in North America. The UN have agreed to more sanctions upon NK which will remove a third of their exports. Interestingly enough the resolution was supported by the Chinese. Should they enforce this it may finally force North Korea to deescalate it's Nuclear program, although sanctions have never stopped Kim Jong Un before I suppose.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 09, 2017, 07:30:58 pm
A hysterical reaction to what is basically just PiS taking on cultural Marxism in Poland.

Which included labeling Lech Walesa a anti-Polish traitor. You know, the guy that actually lead the Polish drive against communist rule. Are you really this thick in the head?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on August 09, 2017, 07:35:25 pm
If you have nothing to contribute, don't post.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Vincenzo on August 09, 2017, 08:21:00 pm
A hysterical reaction to what is basically just PiS taking on cultural Marxism in Poland.
You cannot be serious right, your trolling I assume?  Ok then.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 09, 2017, 09:06:58 pm
A hysterical reaction to what is basically just PiS taking on cultural Marxism in Poland.

Which included labeling Lech Walesa a anti-Polish traitor. You know, the guy that actually lead the Polish drive against communist rule. Are you really this thick in the head?

Would that be after the 2016 documents that came to light and revealed pretty much conclusively that he was an informant for a number of years? Context is important Duuring.

A hysterical reaction to what is basically just PiS taking on cultural Marxism in Poland.
You cannot be serious right, your trolling I assume?  Ok then.

I'm half serious. Not really a fan of what they're doing on the law and liberty side of things but I admire their social conservatism a great deal.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 10, 2017, 12:49:20 am
A hysterical reaction to what is basically just PiS taking on cultural Marxism in Poland.

Which included labeling Lech Walesa a anti-Polish traitor. You know, the guy that actually lead the Polish drive against communist rule. Are you really this thick in the head?

Would that be after the 2016 documents that came to light and revealed pretty much conclusively that he was an informant for a number of years? Context is important Duuring.

A hysterical reaction to what is basically just PiS taking on cultural Marxism in Poland.
You cannot be serious right, your trolling I assume?  Ok then.

I'm half serious. Not really a fan of what they're doing on the law and liberty side of things but I admire their social conservatism a great deal.
Which begs the question, does one justify the other? Doesn't seem like the Polish have had problems maintaining social conservatism since the fall of the USSR. (From what I can see)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 10, 2017, 08:02:40 pm
A hysterical reaction to what is basically just PiS taking on cultural Marxism in Poland.

Which included labeling Lech Walesa a anti-Polish traitor. You know, the guy that actually lead the Polish drive against communist rule. Are you really this thick in the head?

Would that be after the 2016 documents that came to light and revealed pretty much conclusively that he was an informant for a number of years? Context is important Duuring.

Yeah, that totally invalidates all of his work.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on August 10, 2017, 08:49:57 pm
and so it begins...
https://www.reuters.com/video/2017/08/10/dinghy-carrying-migrants-lands-on-spanis?videoId=372291713 (https://www.reuters.com/video/2017/08/10/dinghy-carrying-migrants-lands-on-spanis?videoId=372291713)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 10, 2017, 09:12:46 pm
Look at all those women and children! Do you have a spare bedroom, Duuring?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 10, 2017, 10:02:50 pm
Seems Canada is doing just fine with their migrants. It's not impossible you know.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 10, 2017, 10:21:19 pm
Canada is much more equip than Spain to handle an influx of migrants, in addition to there being a difference between selecting migrants to let in versus having them wash up on your shore.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 10, 2017, 10:25:24 pm
Seems Canada is doing just fine with their migrants. It's not impossible you know.

Well, apart from the fact that even Justin Trudeau was smart enough to implement extreme vetting. No single males allowed for a start.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/23/canada-syrian-refugee-resettlement-plan-no-single-men

Also they only took 30,000 while Germany alone has taken over a million (as of June 2017).

Which begs the question, does one justify the other? Doesn't seem like the Polish have had problems maintaining social conservatism since the fall of the USSR. (From what I can see)

Not particularly since elections in Poland for the last two decades have generally been between the right-wing (Civic Platform) and the very right-wing (PiS).

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 10, 2017, 10:39:37 pm
We're also an extremely unattractive place for middle eastern refugees, with many turning down invitations.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 10, 2017, 10:48:37 pm
You're also on another continent.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 11, 2017, 12:04:12 am
You're also on another continent.
With a climate totally hostile and unknown to Syrians. And also not enough people to really justify thousands more refugees.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 11, 2017, 12:32:27 am
You're also on another continent.

As is Germany.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2017, 12:41:40 am
You're also on another continent.

As is Germany.
He meant another continent to Germany. Europe is a lot closer to Syria, Iraq etc than North America is.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on August 11, 2017, 04:35:20 pm
Interesting turn in development. Looks like we'll just see a war of words for the time being
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/11/china-pledges-neutrality-unless-us-strikes-north-korea-first.html (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/11/china-pledges-neutrality-unless-us-strikes-north-korea-first.html)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 11, 2017, 05:32:43 pm
China will invade North Korea.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2017, 05:38:52 pm
China will not invade North Korea. If they don't want to handle a bunch of North Korean refugees then they ain't gonna want to handle the entire country
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 11, 2017, 06:10:23 pm
Interesting turn in development. Looks like we'll just see a war of words for the time being
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/11/china-pledges-neutrality-unless-us-strikes-north-korea-first.html (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/11/china-pledges-neutrality-unless-us-strikes-north-korea-first.html)

Pretty much. Great shame this wasn't dealt with by Bill Clinton or Bush II. Now the geopolitical balance has tipped such that we're going to have to get used to a world where a maniac leading a deeply unstable country has nuclear weapons.

It's a nightmare scenario for everyone, including the Chinese. Imagine how dangerous it would be if there's some kind of coup attempt or an uprising by the people to overthrow the regime. Pyongyang is also now going to be in a position to pass on the technology to various deeply unpleasant state and non-state actors. I'd be surprised if this doesn't also kick off a nuclear arms race within the region.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on August 11, 2017, 06:45:07 pm
Meh. I want both China and the US to invade NK at the same time, just to see who will be in Pyongyang first. The Chinese with their 10000000000 low tech soldier spamfest or the US with their super advanced futuristic technology!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2017, 07:16:13 pm
The greatest civ 5 battle ever
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on August 11, 2017, 08:08:17 pm
Nothing is going to happen.  It's just rhetoric.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 11, 2017, 09:10:14 pm
Nothing is going to happen.  It's just rhetoric.
^
At most, the US/Chinese/Russians disable NK command and control and forces nuclear disarmament
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2017, 09:28:21 pm
NK will back down even if Trump doesn't. Their entire economy is dependent on the Chinese.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on August 11, 2017, 09:38:27 pm
http://www.dailywire.com/news/19610/candidate-set-be-first-female-navy-seal-quits-amanda-prestigiacomo?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=dwbrand (http://www.dailywire.com/news/19610/candidate-set-be-first-female-navy-seal-quits-amanda-prestigiacomo?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=dwbrand)

xd
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2017, 10:01:12 pm
The article even states that there is still another female in training so what's the point in broadcasting the fact that she quit. I'm sure many men have quit at that stage as well.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 11, 2017, 10:18:15 pm
http://www.dailywire.com/news/19610/candidate-set-be-first-female-navy-seal-quits-amanda-prestigiacomo?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=dwbrand (http://www.dailywire.com/news/19610/candidate-set-be-first-female-navy-seal-quits-amanda-prestigiacomo?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=dwbrand)

xd

Biology wins yet again
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2017, 10:24:37 pm
Except I'm sure there are plenty of women capable of serving in combat roles just as there are many men who can't. Sure, on average, men are biologically stronger than women, but by over generalising this fact and therefore barring all women (based upon an average rather than their individual merit) is ridiculous.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on August 11, 2017, 10:34:21 pm
The article even states that there is still another female in training so what's the point in broadcasting the fact that she quit. I'm sure many men have quit at that stage as well.
I dont think the other woman is going to be a navy seal. She is training to be a Special Warfare Combatant-Craft Crewman, which Wikipedia says has a different training program

Also i dont have a problem with women in the military as long as they meet the requirements and the standards arent dropped to make it easier for them.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2017, 10:35:24 pm
My point still stands either way. Just because one woman failed the training it doesn't mean that every woman will. Both the article and you are over generalising for the sake of your point.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on August 11, 2017, 11:03:15 pm
My point still stands either way. Just because one woman failed the training it doesn't mean that every woman will. Both the article and you are over generalising for the sake of your point.
I never said that women shouldnt be allowed to serve. As long as they meet the requirements, go for it. Although, it turns out many of them dont.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/6794/congress-wants-women-serve-combat-theres-just-one-amanda-prestigiacomo (http://www.dailywire.com/news/6794/congress-wants-women-serve-combat-theres-just-one-amanda-prestigiacomo)

Also its been 18 months, and only 1 woman has signed up to be a navy seal. Probably why they made a article about her dropping out.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2017, 11:45:12 pm
You may not believe that women shouldn't be allowed to serve but the previous article you linked sure did present something correlating to that opinion. They decided to reference a supposed fact that mixed gender units have a poorer combat record than those of all-male units, without linking any evidence I might add.

You're right many women don't meet the requirements to be at the highest levels of the armed forces, but neither do many men. How many of us here could be a Navy Seal? I know I certainly couldn't be one. Maybe we ought to start encouraging those brave enough to want to protect our societies rather than constantly put them down. The article makes an obvious attempt to say that women perform worse than men in combat situations (even if it does not state it explicitly), which obviously will be true in some cases just as it will not be in others.

The second article that you linked might be one of the worst pieces of journalism I have ever seen. It could have been written by a TD reddit user. If women weren't capable of being in their units then they wouldn't have passed their training, the article even admits that officials have said this and yet it still goes on to accuse the American military of being some social justice warrior institution.

Furthermore, the article even makes a crass statement about the fact that women are promoted more than men, stating that it's obvious gender bias without any actual evidence that this is true.

I'm not saying that all women are up to the task. There is a higher female failure rate than men in regards to training. But that doesn't mean such heavy generalisations should be placed on women in the armed forces. I'm sure I could find many examples of exemplary female soldiers with a simple google search. The articles you have both linked carry a heavy bias.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 12, 2017, 12:04:21 am
Women are not suitable for combat-period. Even if they're in the tiny minority who pass the strength and fitness requirements there's still the problem that their bodies are much frailer and do not cope as well with the nutritional and sleeping pattern stresses that personnel might face in combat.

Every military that has looked into allowing women into combat roles has come to the conclusion it's a terrible idea, despite huge political pressure for them to reach the 'right' answer. Naturally the politicians ignored the findings and pressed ahead with it anyway. You can read what the British Military found here (most of the key findings are on page 3):
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/389575/20141218_WGCC_Findings_Paper_Final.pdf

Just face it, human evolution has not made women well suited to combat on both a biological and psychological level. That shouldn't be much of a surprise but apparently it is to some people.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on August 12, 2017, 12:26:53 am
You may not believe that women shouldn't be allowed to serve but the previous article you linked sure did present something correlating to that opinion. They decided to reference a supposed fact that mixed gender units have a poorer combat record than those of all-male units, without linking any evidence I might add.

You're right many women don't meet the requirements to be at the highest levels of the armed forces, but neither do many men. How many of us here could be a Navy Seal? I know I certainly couldn't be one. Maybe we ought to start encouraging those brave enough to want to protect our societies rather than constantly put them down. The article makes an obvious attempt to say that women perform worse than men in combat situations (even if it does not state it explicitly), which obviously will be true in some cases just as it will not be in others.

The second article that you linked might be one of the worst pieces of journalism I have ever seen. It could have been written by a TD reddit user. If women weren't capable of being in their units then they wouldn't have passed their training, the article even admits that officials have said this and yet it still goes on to accuse the American military of being some social justice warrior institution.

Furthermore, the article even makes a crass statement about the fact that women are promoted more than men, stating that it's obvious gender bias without any actual evidence that this is true.

I'm not saying that all women are up to the task. There is a higher female failure rate than men in regards to training. But that doesn't mean such heavy generalisations should be placed on women in the armed forces. I'm sure I could find many examples of exemplary female soldiers with a simple google search. The articles you have both linked carry a heavy bias.
There is a link to mixed groups performing worse. The bolded, underlined text are links to studies/other articles that have links to studies :o. Although some of them dont work anymore so rip. And yes I am aware that the articles are heavily biased. The Daily Wire is a conservative site and both the articles are made by the same person. I guess i should have have mentioned that.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2017, 12:34:07 am
Women aren't meant for the army, period? They can't cope with rough sleep patterns? Have you heard of being a mother? There are many women who can and do cope with the stresses (both physically and physiologically) on a daily basis who prove you wrong. Even your own articles show that men don't outperform them in 100% of cases. I think you can't see the generalizations you're emitting. There are many examples of exceptional female soldiers throughout history and in present day. Denying that is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on August 12, 2017, 02:05:15 am
I say let women join so long as they are able to meet the same physical testing/performance standards as anyone else.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2017, 02:33:56 am
I say let women join so long as they are able to meet the same physical testing/performance standards as anyone else.
Yeah this is my way of thinking too
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 12, 2017, 02:38:10 am
I say let women join so long as they are able to meet the same physical testing/performance standards as anyone else.
Yeah this is my way of thinking too

But it's not just about standards.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2017, 02:44:25 am
I'm not really sure what you mean
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 12, 2017, 03:00:44 am
I say let women join so long as they are able to meet the same physical testing/performance standards as anyone else.
Yeah this is my way of thinking too
But the whole point of Steven's argument (from what I can tell) is that most women don't meet the standards and therefore don't serve.
I think it's about stress tolerance, too. On average males have a higher stress tolerance, and that's a necessity for combat. Advocating for women to be in the military because "it's 2017" (which I realize you haven't said and this is more of a general argument anyways) is both humiliating and degrading for men, women, and the military.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2017, 03:07:58 am
I was more disputing Babyjesus' point that women aren't capable of combat as a group. Obviously some aren't, as many men aren't. Its condescending, rude and a massive generalisation to label all women is incapable when many female soldiers carry out their roles with pride and at exemplary standards.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on August 12, 2017, 03:44:38 am
I was more disputing Babyjesus' point that women aren't capable of combat as a group. Obviously some aren't, as many men aren't. Its condescending, rude and a massive generalisation to label all women is incapable when many female soldiers carry out their roles with pride and at exemplary standards.
O when did i say that women are incapable? Literally fucking no where. I think you are confusing me with steven tbh.

I say let women join so long as they are able to meet the same physical testing/performance standards as anyone else.
I actually agree with this statement. Its literally what i said in every single one of my posts. The point of that article is to show that most women cant meet those standards, and that in order to "diversify and make the military more equal" the military would make it easier for women to join, which i am against.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2017, 03:49:19 am
Yeah I did confuse you two, one of you change profile pic pls.
Didn't the article you link mention that the army said that they wouldn't be lowering standards? You can't say that they are when there isn't any evidence for it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on August 12, 2017, 03:55:13 am
Yeah I did confuse you two, one of you change profile pic pls.
Didn't the article you link mention that the army said that they wouldn't be lowering standards? You can't say that they are when there isn't any evidence for it.
Yea it did. But I just think in the future something like that will be done
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2017, 03:56:14 am
I doubt it. The army has always upheld their high standards and I don't see why they'd stop now
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 12, 2017, 11:43:26 am
The physiological and neuromuscular differences between men and women means it's a bad idea letting them serve. As I've said already, they're 2 or 3 times more likely than men to develop injuries according to the British military studies. Makes sense given we already know that in the sporting world female athletes have far higher incidences of injury than their male counter-parts.

Their bodies are also relatively poor at coping with nutritional and sleeping pattern stresses compared to men.



Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2017, 01:34:09 pm
And as I've already said, many women serve in the military exceptionally. I don't know how you can say that women don't deal with poor sleeping patterns well...many mothers do every day.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 12, 2017, 02:27:49 pm
And as I've already said, many women serve in the military exceptionally. I don't know how you can say that women don't deal with poor sleeping patterns well...many mothers do every day.

Best bring that up with the British Army then since they say differently.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/389575/20141218_WGCC_Findings_Paper_Final.pdf
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2017, 02:49:38 pm
Which point are you disputing? The fact that they perform well?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 12, 2017, 03:24:46 pm
They don't perform well in combat. Every Western military that has studied this has found the same thing.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/10/439190586/marine-corps-study-finds-all-male-combat-units-faster-than-mixed-units
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2017, 03:46:11 pm
So there has never been a woman who has performed better in combat?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 12, 2017, 05:41:34 pm
Yeah this person
Spoiler
(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/media/images/69050000/jpg/_69050688_chris_kristin.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 12, 2017, 10:35:00 pm
Virginia is nice this time of year
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 12, 2017, 10:41:09 pm
The current youngest of the Dutch Cavalry Regiment Officers Corps (Boreel Hussars, recon scouts nowadays) is a woman. She passed the (considerably tough) course of 35 weeks of advanced officer training better than most men did. Should she be  alled unfit to serve because she is a woman?

Also dont give me the lower standards bullshit. This doesnt happen here.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2017, 11:15:41 pm
I was about to give some examples but riddlez has proved my point, Steven.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 12, 2017, 11:31:33 pm
Also dont give me the lower standards bullshit. This doesnt happen here.

Are you sure? This article (http://www.omroepgelderland.nl/nieuws/2137716/Fysieke-eisen-voor-mannen-en-vrouwen-hoe-doen-ze-dat-bij-andere-beroepen) in a regional Dutch newspaper suggest otherwise, and I've heard the same from a Dutch veteran.

Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean that the Officer Training has different phyiscal standards, but some different standards seemed to be applied within the Dutch militairy.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2017, 11:34:28 pm
How about the famous night witches https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2017, 11:38:23 pm
Or one of the numerous female American admirals https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Howard
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 12, 2017, 11:59:29 pm
Assuming we're talking about the tiny minority of women currently serving in the military who meet the standards required for combat roles, there's still a lot to consider:
-Women are twice as likely to develop a musculoskeletal injury (and it goes up to seven times more likely for more specialist training regimes like commando or paratroop roles)
-Women currently serving are 15-20% more likely to suffer a Disease Non-Battle Injury (that will go up after they're allowed in combat)
-Women currently serving are twice as likely to develop mental health problems (15% vs 6.8% in men, and again will go up when they're allowed in combat)
-Women's bodies do not respond well to the nutritional, stress and sleeping stresses that combat causes (it's completely different to having a baby, that's a dumb comparison for obvious reasons)
-Women are quicker to fatigue than men and cannot be pushed to the kinds of limits that men can when the situation warrants it

I'm not going to talk about unit cohesion, killer instinct and all the rest of it but those are also important things to consider. The only Western military that has allowed women in combat roles for some time is the IDF (probably because Israel is outnumbered 25:1 and is desperate for manpower). They strictly segregate into all-female combat units only, which are only used for light duties and won't face the enemy unless the situation is truly desperate.

Integrate women into combat units and the unit won't be as effective, end of. That's what all the studies have concluded. I reckon what will happen is women will be allowed to serve, will end up on average getting killed more often than men, and there will be a feminist backlash in 20 years time seeking to make a grievance out of it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 13, 2017, 12:13:05 am
Or maybe you just need to get rid of this anti-female soldier sentiment you've got going on ::)
Many women do very well in combat. Fact. End of. You think all women are going to get serious injuries? I doubt it so it doesn't really matter does it. Sure, some may be more injury prone but that doesn't mean they don't skilfully contribute and carry out their jobs which outweighs the negatives.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: CaseliusFIN on August 13, 2017, 01:01:26 am
With women on military I'd go on the principle that requirements and demands must be same for everyone.

Based on my own experience, there was 3 women in my company. 2 of them were actually better than most of men in the tasks and they could do all what men could. The 1 exception though was in HQ Plt. The two were however in light infantry platoons, one as a FO and one as a platoon leader. Had to serve under both of them during my service due me being FO and also me being in light infantry. I can say that they were as professional as their male counterparts.

I actually found out today that other of the two is now commissioned 2nd Lieutenant in that same company. (Both were promoted to 2nd Lt (Res.) in the end) If explaining more about the unit it's centered around fighting in arctic and remote conditions with emphasis on survival skills and light infantry tactics.

What my point is that things should be looked upon just their abilities, how well they fare in different tasks and their physical condition. At-least in my experiences that was something they did right in my unit.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 14, 2017, 12:57:40 am
Also dont give me the lower standards bullshit. This doesnt happen here.

Are you sure? This article (http://www.omroepgelderland.nl/nieuws/2137716/Fysieke-eisen-voor-mannen-en-vrouwen-hoe-doen-ze-dat-bij-andere-beroepen) in a regional Dutch newspaper suggest otherwise, and I've heard the same from a Dutch veteran.

This is the cancer that is the root of the different standards discussion. It is false.
Yes entry standards are different for women. ENTRY STANDARDS. These are designed to test on medical basis the amount of physical stress your body is capable of handling. It is to test if your body is suitable for the job. In training there are also numerous PE tests and yes theyre mostly different for women. But in the end, all that counts is the actual fucking combat training. So if the task entail hoisting a 45kg backback upon your skeleton and go for a stroll thats 30 clicks long, youre gonna fucking do it. And if you cant physically do that? You get a period of time to imrpove yourself but if you keep failing physical standards, you are done. This usually sorts itself out by those folks getting injuries.

I had a girl in my squad who washed out of officer training because she couldnt keep up and got injuries. She was too short and had to force steps too large for her. Result: injured legs, exit academy. This is none different for combat training.
If the woman meets the requirements and passes training succesfully, why should I have any less respect for than anyone else? Also women proved themselves useful in peacekeeping operations already, their way of thinking is different and sometimes better suited for peacekeeping operations.

I have gone to almost literal shits with my fellow female cadets and I can tell from experience, they are not different in attitude than men. Some of them are whiney bitches, some of them are tougher than most of the men in the platoon. It happens.

The moment these girls prove themselves by passing training they deserve to be respected. They accomplished more than most civilians ever will.

Added risk for memtal problems and injuries? A non-argument to me. In my future job, my life expectancy against a conventional enemy is 6 seconds. It is a risk I am willing to take, and so is the risk of injury, death or mental problems. Just because on average women are more susceptible doesnr mean they should be excluded for serving.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 14, 2017, 11:01:39 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4790308/One-dead-seven-hurt-car-rams-Paris-pizzeria.html?ito=social-facebook

Inb4 France bans vehicles. This is getting ridiculous now.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 15, 2017, 12:27:41 am
Hey guys I found another female soldier https://www.reddit.com/r/OldSchoolCool/comments/6tnm2y/soviet_sniper_lyudmila_pavlichenko_credited_with/

It's almost like some of them are pretty good at this, huh?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 15, 2017, 02:47:03 am
Yeah she's a real looker that one
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 15, 2017, 08:22:44 pm
Kinda feels like the Conservatives are dreaming at this point. They think the EU is going to allow them to forge an entire new customs union of our own. As great as that would be, why on earth would they ever agree to that seeing as we would still be effectively inside the customs union but without any of the restrictions that are placed upon members of the EU? Would be a massive concession for the EU to make and it just ain't happening.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 15, 2017, 11:18:48 pm
Speculation, speculation, speculation! We'll have to wait and see.

In the meantime, I wouldn't worry to much - EU decisions aren't made based off of logic.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 15, 2017, 11:52:50 pm
The EU Customs Union is a red herring. Non-EU countries can't be members of it, so the UK was always going to have to leave as part of Brexit. Neither are customs unions particularly relevant in the 21st century as they largely focus on tariff barriers which are nowadays historically low. People unfamiliar with the subject seem to think that being in a customs union means you get frictionless trade with the other members. Well, actually you don't. For example the EEC customs union was established in 1958, yet well into the 1980s the average border delay at customs between member states was 80 minutes per lorry. The thing that actually made frictionless internal EU trade a reality was the creation of the single market post-1993, not the customs union.

What the UK wants is an agreement on *customs co-operation* which is an entirely separate thing to the customs union.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 16, 2017, 12:03:31 am
Actually the conservatives said they want a "temporary customs union" for a period after brexit. I assume we read the same BBC article which, yes, also mentioned the frictionless cooperation post brexit but I was personally referencing the fact that the conservatives will be hard pressed to gain anything at all from the EU in this regard.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 16, 2017, 12:06:47 am
Actually the conservatives said they want a "temporary customs union" for a period after brexit. I assume we read the same BBC article which, yes, also mentioned the frictionless cooperation post brexit but I was personally referencing the fact that the conservatives will be hard pressed to gain anything at all from the EU in this regard.

The Tories are actually quite thick, the question is whether they're even thicker than most EU politicians and that remains to be seen.

I'm assuming they're talking about a bilateral customs union with the EU similar to what Turkey has-that's not the same thing as membership of the EU Customs Union. It's doable but probably not by 2019.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 16, 2017, 12:09:29 am
The tories are thick? Who knew?  :P
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on August 16, 2017, 01:31:30 pm
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OPSCjnwD3gc
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 17, 2017, 01:24:59 pm
So, how's the proposals for an EU military coming along? I'm willing to bet we'll see a CANZUK defence union before an EU one.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 17, 2017, 05:39:41 pm
What's CANZUK?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 17, 2017, 06:47:48 pm
What's CANZUK?

Is Google down or something?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 17, 2017, 07:03:26 pm
What's CANZUK?

Is Google down or something?
Or you could just explain something which you brought into the conversation...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 17, 2017, 07:23:18 pm
Van of peace
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on August 17, 2017, 07:23:30 pm
Another Contribution by the Religion of Peace.

I bet one 30€ Steam Game that it was a muslim.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 17, 2017, 07:50:18 pm
So what if it was a Muslim? They're a terrorist not a true representation of the entire religion. The guy who shot up that church in America doesn't represent all of the white people in the world so why does radicalised Muslims represent all of Islam?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 17, 2017, 07:55:56 pm
Are you really comparing an ideology with a skin colour?

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 17, 2017, 08:02:42 pm
I'm comparing the ridiculous discrimination of an entire group of people because of the actions of a few
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 17, 2017, 08:29:46 pm
If you think that murder isn't a "true representation" of Islam, then you need to read up on Islamic history.

Edit: There's nothing to debate here, I only posted originally to benchmark this attack to compare with next week's.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Vincenzo on August 17, 2017, 08:43:54 pm
With that analogy we should say the same about protestants, catholics, buddists, or whatever else really.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 17, 2017, 08:56:32 pm
Except the main religious groups found today, like the ones you have mentioned, have amended or excluded scriptures that are not "up to date" with the modern world. Islam however, has not.

Another Contribution by the Religion of Peace.

I bet one 30€ Steam Game that it was a muslim.

Early stuff, but you made a safe bet:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/17/driss-oubakir-barcelona-suspect/?WT.mc_id=tmgoff_fb_tmg
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 17, 2017, 09:40:35 pm
Many religions have a bad past including Christianity. Not every Muslim follows the entirety of the scripture. If you think I need to read up on Islamic history then maybe you need to read up on Cristian scripture. Pretty sure it says in the bible that if a women has had sex before marriage then you stone them to death. I think we can all agree that most Cristians don't practice that.

Vince you've just unintentionally summed up my point perfectly. Things like these happen with every religion but that doesn't make them bad or reflect upon the majority as a whole.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 17, 2017, 09:51:41 pm
Many religions have a bad past including Christianity. If you think I need to read up on Islamic history then maybe you need to read up on Cristian scripture. Pretty sure it says in the bible that if a women has had sex before marriage then you stone them to death. I think we can all agree that most Cristians don't practice that.

Do you only read posts by FSE staff or something; if you had read my post before going on yet another exhausting and uninformed virtue signalling rant, I addressed this. Christians do not follow these barbaric scriptures, they've been abandoned by the masses. You aren't going to bait me into defending a faith I don't follow, stop scape-goating Christianity with statements you know full well aren't true.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on August 17, 2017, 10:00:51 pm
There's plenty of violent and outdated remarks in the bible which indeed modern christians reject as being too old fashioned. Same with the Quran. I wanna know where everyone bases the statement that 'moslims still do follow the violent and barbaric remarks' on.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on August 17, 2017, 10:04:34 pm
Toffee.
(Almost)Every Terrorist Attack of the last Months has been carried out by a muslim. Yes, all Religions have a bad history. But most of these Religions reformed in the past 200 years.
Also, yes not all muslims carry out terror attacks. But a very large percent are still homophobic and sexist as fuck. All Countries that punish Homosexuality by death are muslim.
I have NO issue with muslims like Squirts for example. 
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 17, 2017, 10:20:58 pm
A lot of this stuff is to do with a very modern interpretation of Islam that has become widespread and deeply embedded. 27:47 onward:

https://youtu.be/-fny99f8amM?t=27m47s
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on August 17, 2017, 11:15:30 pm
Great Documentation.

I recommend his other Documentations aswell. GREAT stuff
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Windflower on August 17, 2017, 11:37:17 pm
So what if it was a Muslim? They're a terrorist not a true representation of the entire religion. The guy who shot up that church in America doesn't represent all of the white people in the world so why does radicalised Muslims represent all of Islam?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 17, 2017, 11:48:24 pm
Gordo your buzzword is virtue signalling as soon as someone defends a group of people who you don't like. I never said Christians followed the scriptures but I said that they were there. You really think all Muslims follow every bad thing that is written in their scriptures? Of course not. Many high profile Islamic leaders in Britain condemn all of the terrorist attacks that are occurring.

Cazasar it's seriously funny how you are so selective in your criticisms. The Catholic Church still don't agree with gay marriage and don't allow female priests so I don't really see what you're trying to get at there. It wasn't long ago that homosexuality was illegal in England and was punishable by imprisonment or chemical castration.

Yes, many terrorists are Muslim, but it's a very small percentage of Muslims who are radicalised like this. Blaming them all for it is ridiculous and is a huge generalisation which simply isn't true. Around a quarter of the world's population is Muslim, are you seriously suggesting that they are all terrorist sympathisers?

And windflower if you had just proven my point wrong with that video then 100% of Muslims would have been radicalised. There are also many millions of Muslims who don't believe in enforcing sharia law, as proven by the video. That only serves to show that it isn't the Muslim religion as a whole. We have an issue with radicalisation within Islam, not the religion itself.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 18, 2017, 01:13:34 am
A lot of this stuff is to do with a very modern interpretation of Islam that has become widespread and deeply embedded. 27:47 onward:

https://youtu.be/-fny99f8amM?t=27m47s

It's even worse than I originally thought (didn't think that was possible). I don't think the dangers stemming from indoctrination to this level can be overstated.

Seriously though. KGB, eat your heart out.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 19, 2017, 02:31:45 am
Well... I watched the entire thing. Learnt quite a bit, surprised that came out of the BBC!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on August 19, 2017, 05:20:35 am
Windflower does Shapiro source where he pulled those survey stats from? Curious to see the raw data
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on August 19, 2017, 06:18:57 am
Good video, Steven. Learned a great deal from watching that.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 19, 2017, 11:42:23 pm
Pretty funny video-they've gone from insults to throwing stones to an actual punch up
http://m.gulfnews.com/amp/news/asia/india/watch-china-india-soldiers-clash-in-ladakh-1.2076834
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 20, 2017, 02:52:30 am
Yes all Muslims are bad.

Terrorism is a threat to our society.

What's new on the fairy tales channel?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 20, 2017, 03:11:28 am
Yes all Muslims are bad.

Terrorism is a threat to our society.

What's new on the fairy tales channel?
In what idealistic bubble world do you live in if terrorism is not a threat to our society?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on August 20, 2017, 03:13:12 am
You can't be serious...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Keita on August 20, 2017, 03:19:00 am
n
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 20, 2017, 03:20:58 am
Yes all Muslims are bad.

Terrorism is a threat to our society.

What's new on the fairy tales channel?
In what idealistic bubble world do you live in if terrorism is not a threat to our society?
He was referencing the fact that everyone is placing Muslims and terrorism in the same bracket without any leeway as though someone was saying "Terrorism is a threat to society so we have to get rid of all Muslims". Obviously he wasn't denying that terrorism was a threat.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 20, 2017, 03:25:53 am
Terrorism is a threat to our society.

What's new on the fairy tales channel?

Riddlez quote of the year.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on August 20, 2017, 05:15:43 am
I agree with Riddlez tbh
To what degree is western society about to collapse due to terrorism?
Its not, therefore its not a threat to society.
Its a threat to people and to national security ofc.
But its a bit retarded to act like we're going to turn to the dogs because of terrorism.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 20, 2017, 09:04:32 pm
 ???
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 21, 2017, 01:30:44 pm
Are the US navy incapable of steering their ships or something?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 21, 2017, 01:54:47 pm
Interesting-allegedly the Barcelona perpetrators were reasonably well integrated
https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article167850496/Das-unglaubliche-Doppelleben-der-jungen-Attentaeter.html
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on August 21, 2017, 02:24:18 pm
Are the US navy incapable of steering their ships or something?
Largest navy in the world. Bound to have accidents every now and then.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Dark_Knight on August 21, 2017, 02:31:44 pm
Are the US navy incapable of steering their ships or something?
Largest navy in the world. Bound to have accidents every now and then.

but 2 accidents in 2 months ...
It made me remember this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiMkAfXEK-I
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 21, 2017, 02:36:59 pm
Are the US navy incapable of steering their ships or something?
Largest navy in the world. Bound to have accidents every now and then.
Not really how it works. If they're the largest navy in the world then surely they can find some officers who are capable of not crashing their multi million dollar ships.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on August 21, 2017, 02:37:09 pm
still.. only 5 or so in the past decade or more.  An outlier in accidents now only means either naval activity is at its highest or there is an exponential increase in naval traffic on the safeguarded routes the US navy follows, could be both idk

Also the naval academy is extremely difficult for the average American to get into.  So the officers that come out of it are among the smartest in all of our armed forces.  I remember a nuclear propulsion officer program they used to recruit MIT students for
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 21, 2017, 08:19:21 pm
NK's navy doesn't suffer any crashes...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on August 22, 2017, 01:21:32 am
NK's navy doesn't suffer any crashes...
Islam is also a religion of peace.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 01:22:27 am
NK's navy doesn't suffer any crashes...
Islam is also a religion of peace.
William also understands Islam
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on August 22, 2017, 01:26:12 am
NK's navy doesn't suffer any crashes...
Islam is also a religion of peace.
William also understands Islam
I was stating a fact but you are stating something that is wrong for I do not know much about Islam.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 01:46:19 am
Sorry I thought we were making sarcastic statements
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 22, 2017, 02:36:12 am
NK's navy doesn't suffer any crashes...
Islam is also a religion of peace.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza

Headsman's​ Axe of Peace
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on August 22, 2017, 02:41:24 am
NK's navy doesn't suffer any crashes...
Islam is also a religion of peace.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza

Headsman's​ Axe of Peace
Easily the most peaceful religion, without a doubt.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 02:43:57 am
And Christianity hasn't committed atrocities? Ever heard of the crusades? The siege of Jerusalem? You think Islam is the only religion with a bloody history?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on August 22, 2017, 02:48:29 am
And Christianity hasn't committed atrocities? Ever heard of the crusades? The siege of Jerusalem? You think Islam is the only religion with a bloody history?
> Comparing a war that stemmed from never ending Muslim aggression
Spoiler
(https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.3Be4XTcJtY3QiIoBp1prngEsD_&pid=15.1)
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthefederalistpapers.integratedmarket.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F08%2Fmeme53.jpg&hash=309c62e2ab69aaab69101c4b5361264034dac849)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 22, 2017, 02:56:56 am
Expansionism of peace?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 03:01:13 am
Religous War has always happened. It's not easily traceable back to the first instances of who started what and that doesn't mean you can go around killing innocents because "he started it". If you believe the crusades were justified then I really don't know what to say. 30 to 70 thousand innocent civilians dead and you think that's okay?

Oh and btw I don't know why you're trying to show Islamic conquests on a map as though Christians haven't done the same thing for centuries.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Dark_Knight on August 22, 2017, 09:57:00 am
Buddhisme is the future  ;)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 22, 2017, 11:43:35 am
Religous War has always happened. It's not easily traceable back to the first instances of who started what and that doesn't mean you can go around killing innocents because "he started it".

... what?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 01:01:24 pm
I'm saying "he started it" is not a valid excuse for killing thousands of civilians. Obviously it happened both ways but don't make Islam out to be the only religion with a violent past.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 22, 2017, 01:57:34 pm
It was an expression of disbelief more than an actual question. Anyway, the Crusades were justified in the same sense that the Allies' actions during WW2 are justified. Fighting off an oppressive ideology costs lives, but the end justifies the means when saving future generations from living under said oppressive ideologies.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 02:07:52 pm
So civilian deaths are fine then? I guess we've reached the point in this thread where killing little children is okay because we're freeing them from an oppressive regime. What do you say to the fact that many inside Jerusalem were Christian and ended up being killed by followers of their own religion who were in a blood lust. Or maybe the fact that Constantinople (a Christian city) was looted and pillaged by a Christian army on its way to the fourth crusade.

Oh and I've read that Christians were actually treated quite well in the Muslim held holy land (which had been held by them since the 600s) at the time. I also forgot to mention the Christian treatment of Jews in the Rhineland.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 22, 2017, 02:43:14 pm
What do you say to the fact that many inside Jerusalem were Christian and ended up being killed by followers of their own religion who were in a blood lust. Or maybe the fact that Constantinople (a Christian city) was looted and pillaged by a Christian army on its way to the fourth crusade.

Oh and I've read that Christians were actually treated quite well in the Muslim held holy land (which had been held by them since the 600s) at the time. I also forgot to mention the Christian treatment of Jews in the Rhineland.

Constantinople was lost because the Crusaders abandoned it sure, but I think you're forgetting that Mehmet allowed Constantinople to be freely raided and pillaged by his soldiers for a short period after the city was overtaken by Ottoman forces.

You're digressing from my response to your claim that Islam is suddenly just as violent as Christianity, despite the fact the Invasion of Banu Qurayza was overseen and commended by the Islamic Prophet where as the early Crusades were directed by the Pope, not Jesus.

Your claims that Christians are treated well under Muslim rule is quite hilarious given the weekly slaughter of Christians by Boko Haram in addition to the fact that Christians have almost been driven out of the Middle East completely.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 02:53:15 pm
I'm showing that Christianity has been just as violent as Islam do to label one being violent whilst the other not is ridiculous. I'm not really sure what you mean saying that the crusaders abandoned Constantinople since they didn't abandon it in the thirteenth century but full on sacked it and carved their own territories out of the Byzantine empire.

You do realise that Christians believe that the Pope is God's representative on earth so in many ways he is a prophet, he is their religous head so your point about their leader not being Jesus is flimsy to say the least.

And I wasn't talking about modern times. You should have noted the past tense 'were'. As I said it was just something I've read. But I suppose it doesn't matter either way because killing children is okay since we're overthrowing a violent regime (see the irony?).
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on August 22, 2017, 03:09:04 pm
Who cares about the crusades.. people care about what affects them the most in the real world.  Extremist views of Islam is the greatest religious threat to civilized society that we have TODAY.  I don't think any other religion compares, again TODAY
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 22, 2017, 03:11:32 pm
I'm showing that Christianity has been just as violent as Islam do to label one being violent whilst the other not is ridiculous. I'm not really sure what you mean saying that the crusaders abandoned Constantinople since they didn't abandon it in the thirteenth century but full on sacked it and carved their own territories out of the Byzantine empire.

You've been so eager to scapegoat Christianity that you've just presumed I've claimed Christianity is not violent. Christianity does have a violent past, but certainly not on the scale of that of Islam.

You do realise that Christians believe that the Pope is God's representative on earth so in many ways he is a prophet, he is their religous head so your point about their leader not being Jesus is flimsy to say the least.

You do realise that neither the Pope nor Jesus Christ was travelling with an army set on expansionism and persecution of anyone who was not a follower of their religion. In contrast to Mohammed, who was objectively a conqueror.

And I wasn't talking about modern times. You should have noted the past tense 'were'. As I said it was just something I've read. But I suppose it doesn't matter either way because killing children is okay since we're overthrowing a violent regime (see the irony?).

This entire "discussion" is based upon you contesting that Islam isn't a religion of peace in both a historical and modern sense. I think we can conclude that it isn't and never has been "peaceful" throughout history to the present day. I've met many Muslims who were good and peaceful people themselves, but that does not disregard the simple truth that Islamic principles were founded by a conqueror and are reflective of that at their core - from the treatment to religious outsiders to the treatment of specific groups that Mohammed was hostile towards, such as Jews.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 03:23:14 pm
I'm not using Christianity as a scapegoat at all, I'm a baptised Christian myself. Sure the pope didn't travel with the army but he did call for the crusade in the first place with the intention of conquering Muslim territories. You don't have to be leading an army to be a conqueror. He was the original reason these armies existed and why they travelled so far to fight the Muslims in the name of God. Christianity is one of the most violent religions in the world and even if Islam has slightly higher numbers of deaths as a result that doesn't make it not so. I could find a huge list of atrocities committed with Christianity used as a perceived excuse.

I'm not contesting that Islam has a violent past, just that they were no more violent than the world that they lived in and the other groups of people that surrounded them, such as the Christians. If you label Islam a religion of violence then you should label Christianity one too. You even admitted that you have met many peaceful Muslims so surely it is an insult to them to label them as violent simply because there are other Muslims who commit atrocities. That proves that Islam is capable of peacefully coinciding with society just as Christianity is. We have an issue in the modern world with radical Islamic extremism not Islam.

And Karth many people view Islam as a religion solely for violence as a result of past atrocities so surely it is only fair to bring up the things that other religions have done, such as the Crusades. You're just proving what I'm saying, it's not Islam but Islamic extremism that is the issue. Islamic followers can be peaceful. We need to help them combat views of extremism within their societies rather than label them all violent when that is clearly not true.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on August 22, 2017, 03:55:18 pm
Doesn't Islam still support honor killings?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 03:58:28 pm
Doesn't Islam still support honor killings?
Some Muslims may do but some don't. The bible says that women who have sex before marriage should be stoned to death but we don't all do it,
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on August 22, 2017, 04:31:33 pm
Doesn't Islam still support honor killings?
Some Muslims may do but some don't. The bible says that women who have sex before marriage should be stoned to death but we don't all do it,
But a large amount of Muslims do, or at least support it. In some Islamic countries its the law. Christian nations have become civilized and their people follow the secular laws of each nation rather then their own personal religious laws. Where as in most Muslim nations religion is the law. I don't see how the you compare a religion where people worship a peaceful and gentleman to a religion that was founded by a blood thirsty warlord.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 04:35:14 pm
Doesn't Islam still support honor killings?
Some Muslims may do but some don't. The bible says that women who have sex before marriage should be stoned to death but we don't all do it,
But a large amount of Muslims do, or at least support it. In some Islamic countries its the law. Christian nations have become civilized and their people follow the secular laws of each nation rather then their own personal religious laws. Where as in most Muslim nations religion is the law. I don't see how the you compare a religion where people worship a peaceful and gentleman to a religion that was founded by a blood thirsty warlord.
Christianity has had many warlords over the years I assure you. Once again you're referring to Radical Islam which I agree is a problem but there are many Muslims who also don't believe in that and live peacefully within our societies and also abide by the laws of the nation. They prove that being Muslim doesn't nessecarily make someone as you've described. Islam is capable of being peaceful just as much as any other religion.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 22, 2017, 05:12:50 pm
Capability doesn't matter. Communism is capable of producing peaceful economic cooperation but has utterly failed in reality to achieve both, just like Islam has failed to provide peace.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 05:14:57 pm
Capability doesn't matter. Communism is capable of producing peaceful economic cooperation but has utterly failed in reality to achieve both, just like Islam has failed to provide peace.
It hasn't failed in many areas though. The majority of Muslims in the UK live peacefully. Seems to me that they've succeeded.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 05:36:50 pm
If you say that Islam has no central leader then how can you classify it as more violent when it is not represented by any one group in particular? My point about the warlords is there have been many famous Christians who have been just as violent. RADICAL Islam is more violent but isn't a true representation in the eyes of many and you should properly differentiate between the two, Islam is a central religion capable of being practiced in peace (just like Christianity).You're constantly using the belief that violence is sowed into their teachings, but this is no different to Christianity which has many violent passages in the bible.

Sure Islam's founder was violent, but many have come after him who are not so. Saladin was a warrior, but showed mercy to Christian prisoners whilst his enemies were slaughtering Muslims by the thousands. Radical Islam is certainly a problem but it is important that we learn to differentiate between a moderate view of Islam and the extreme versions of it. There have been periods throughout history where Christianity has been equally as extreme but it's just that it isn't as prevalent within modern society. Just like Christianity with different versions of beliefs, Moderate Muslims should be allowed to be differentiated from the radical aspects of Muslim society. You wouldn't label a protestant and a catholic together in terms of view points so don't do the same for Muslims. We need to be wary of radicalisation within Islam, not all of the religion as it is not fundamentally any more evil than any other religion in the world. I think it's important to correct yourself with the statement *radical Islam is more violent, not Islam in it's entirety.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on August 22, 2017, 05:59:21 pm
If you say that Islam has no central leader then how can you classify it as more violent when it is not represented by any one group in particular? My point about the warlords is there have been many famous Christians who have been just as violent. RADICAL Islam is more violent but isn't a true representation in the eyes of many and you should properly differentiate between the two, Islam is a central religion capable of being practiced in peace (just like Christianity).You're constantly using the belief that violence is sowed into their teachings, but this is no different to Christianity which has many violent passages in the bible.

Sure Islam's founder was violent, but many have come after him who are not so. Saladin was a warrior, but showed mercy to Christian prisoners whilst his enemies were slaughtering Muslims by the thousands. Radical Islam is certainly a problem but it is important that we learn to differentiate between a moderate view of Islam and the extreme versions of it. There have been periods throughout history where Christianity has been equally as extreme but it's just that it isn't as prevalent within modern society. Just like Christianity with different versions of beliefs, Moderate Muslims should be allowed to be differentiated from the radical aspects of Muslim society. You wouldn't label a protestant and a catholic together in terms of view points so don't do the same for Muslims. We need to be wary of radicalisation within Islam, not all of the religion as it is not fundamentally any more evil than any other religion in the world. I think it's important to correct yourself with the statement *radical Islam is more violent, not Islam in it's entirety.
Chrisitianity literally has a reformation which was people looking at the Bible and the bad stuff in it and saying "no, that's bad, we won't follow that". The secular nature of Europe that followed far outweighs any attempt of Islamic reform. Most modern Muslim reformers are threatened by other Muslims or shunned because of their beliefs. Even "secular" leaning countries like Jordan still convict people for crimes against Islam such as the depiction of the Warlord Prophet 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahed_Hattar (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahed_Hattar)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 06:10:30 pm
Yes Christianity had a reformation but many Muslims have rejected certain teachings of radical Islam which they don't want to adhere to. In the same way Christianity did. There may be no attempt at Islamic reform as a collective but, as Conway stated, there is no central leader figure within the Muslim world which makes it harder to implement an official reform. Instead Muslims have reformed in other ways which lead to the moderate Muslims we see within our society today. Just because a certain group of Muslims has a problem with them that doesn't make them any less Muslim. You're making it sound like you're trying to argue that moderate Muslims aren't Muslims at all now to constantly try and frame the entirety of Islam as a bad thing when it clearly isn't. None of this is as black and white as you make it out to be.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 06:44:06 pm
So it's moderate Muslims who have committed all these terrorist attacks is it? Because they are of the same religion they deserve to be put int the same boat. It's not all Muslims who crashed those planes into the twin towers but radical Muslims. As I said you need to differentiate between different aspects of a religion rather than generalisizing it

And I'm glad you think children being slaughtered by Christian soldiers in the streets isn't the fault of the Christians. I thought for a minute there we might have done something wrong.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on August 22, 2017, 06:49:03 pm
Moderate Muslims are the sort of people that wouldn't mind if a radical muslim killed you. They just don't say it out loud.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 06:55:05 pm
That's just ridiculous William your statement is based on personal bias and prejudice and has no proof to back it up. Leading Muslims in the UK have condemned terrorist attacks and have refused to bury the terrorists on their sacred grounds with completely disproved what you've just said.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 07:16:20 pm
Yes Conway you are correct that there is a large number of radical Muslims which is why we need to encourage moderate Muslims rather than putting them down and branding them all as terrorists and as violent. You say that Muslims hate us and yet the number that Ben Shapiro gives still leaves 920 million Muslims who aren't radicalised. But you're still labelling them all in such a way?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 07:27:55 pm
You've said that Islam is a violent religion which is a massive generalization seeing as a gigantic portion of Islam is not radicalized. Moderate Islam has more followers than Radical and should be assessed differently. It's like me calling all Christians anti-gay even though there are large portions which are not, it's factually incorrect.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 08:31:04 pm
I didn't say just Catholicism I said Christianity. I would love to see where Islam encourages violence as a core belief and if anything you say is taken from the Quaran then I will just bring the bible in to this which is just the same.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on August 22, 2017, 08:41:06 pm
I didn't say just Catholicism I said Christianity. I would love to see where Islam encourages violence as a core belief and if anything you say is taken from the Quaran then I will just bring the bible in to this which is just the same.
The difference is that Christians don't take the Bible literally. They had a reformation to basically stop using the Old Testament as law and instead focus on the New Testament which is based on Jesus.

Catholics/Christians don't kill gays or atheists. They may not agree with them but they don't kill them like Muslims.

Islam is based on the Quran and there has been no reformation so people still take it pretty seriously, especially clerics. I don't see Catholic Priests calling for us to cast down our enemies while on the flipside, radical Muslim clerics exist all over the place and are some of the most antisemetic and homophobic people on the planet.

Jesus, a chill guy who saved people and showed people a new way of life where you respect your neighbor.
Mohammad, a warlord with tons of wives, including children, who brutally murdered opposition and spread his faith through the sword and not by simple word of mouth and preaching.

Do you understand why people are naturally resistant to Islam? Quit being such an apologist and just accept that Islam is the worst religion to exist on this planet in its current state with the current amount of followers. Christianity allows for you to even have free speech. Why don't you bow towards Mecca because I'm sure the Christian Franks were Islamophobic for beating the Moors and saving Christendom.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 22, 2017, 08:49:52 pm
You guys are wasting your time. "Toffee" is the very definition of "virtue-signalling SJW".

He's gone from ardent advocate of gay and trans rights to staunch apologist for Islam. A pure contrarian who will never accept he's taken the wrong stance on something.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 08:59:34 pm
When did I say I was for every aspect of Islam? I just think it's important to differentiate between moderate Muslims (who don't kill gays or mistreat women etc) and radical Islam. It's not that hard to understand. You think all Muslims kill gays William then I don't really know what to say seeing as a lot seem to manage to live in western societies without doing so. Not being able to see what differentiates a moderate Muslim from the radicals just highlights how bad fearmongering has gotten to you. There are 1.6 billion muslims in the world and the majority of them aren't radicals. Sure there are a lot that have been radicalised (which I agree needs to be addressed) not being able to differentiate between them and moderates is simply ignoring truths since somehow Muslims seem to be able to live in our society every day without blowing us all up as you would have everyone believe.

Jesus was a good guy, we know that but many of his followers weren't and if you think that there haven't been Cristian figures calling for he destruction of their enemies then you need to read a history book. And Gordo why are you using quotations of Toffee and virtue signalling sjw? It just looks ridiculous. I've noticed you tend to spurt that phrase out whenever I disagree with you since you can't seem to form an argument without it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 22, 2017, 09:09:09 pm
Jesus was a good guy, we know that but many of his followers weren't and if you think that there haven't been Cristian figures calling for he destruction of their enemies then you need to read a history book. And Gordo why are you using quotations of Toffee and virtue signalling sjw? It just looks ridiculous. I've noticed you tend to spurt that phrase out whenever I disagree with you since you can't seem to form an argument without it.

I'd usually frown upon using such labels but I'll make an exception for a walking cliché such as yourself.

There's been pages of evidence showing you the nature of Islam yet you always default on the same "Christianity does it too!!!" pathetic counter-argument.

I'm not using Christianity as a scapegoat at all

I would love to see where Islam encourages violence as a core belief and if anything you say is taken from the Quaran then I will just bring the bible in to this which is just the same.

Hmmmm...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 09:13:08 pm
I was raised a Catholic and we certainly didn't ignore the old testemant in our lessons on Christianity. I'm not really sure why you are talking about going off the teachings of Jesus instead of the bible as if people throughout history could just go up and ask the bloke. People got their teachings from the churches, as priests could read in Latin.

He may have previously been a practicing Muslim but he doesn't speak for all of them. From your description it sounds as though he has left a radical branch of Islam which is a good thing. You must understand that I'm not arguing in favour of radical Islam but that we, as a collective, properly differentiate between Muslims who live in peace and those who don't so as to not label them together and alienate those who are living good and honest lives.

And Gordo that was clearly not the point of my argument. You're ability to take everything out of the context of their meaning is astounding. I'm trying to show that Islam shares a brutal past with many other religions and was simply using Christianity as an example since it is the largest in the world.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 22, 2017, 09:21:32 pm
And Gordo that was clearly not the point of my argument. You're ability to take everything out of the context of their meaning is astounding.

Oh, wasn't it? I seem to recall you saying:

If you label Islam a religion of violence then you should label Christianity one too.



 
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 09:29:28 pm
Yes which was pointing out how ridiculous it was to label an entire religion violent? I swear sometimes you are so eager to insult me that you don't read between the lines  ???

And Conway you just said western Islam is good...which goes against everything you've been saying. You understand me when I differentiate between radicals and a more moderate Muslim. I see what you mean but I think it's more appropriate to call them Moderates rather than 'western' because is it possible for Muslims to be moderates without living in the west (as shown by Ben Shapiro's video where not the entirety of society within Muslim dominated countries were radicalised).
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2017, 10:34:12 pm
Fraudbear just had a complete personality shift from being able to have a conversation into NW speech   ;D
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 22, 2017, 11:37:27 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/JPD9T2T.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 23, 2017, 09:30:48 am
*snip*

Unacceptable. Absolutely unacceptable.

Where is MrTiki?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 24, 2017, 12:06:57 am
So, Trudeau is accepting asylum seekers from the USA now.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/asylum-seekers-border-crossing-1.4258928

I already have a Canadian passport but if anyone wants one just fly to New York and walk across into Quebec. Much easier than applying via Immigration Canada and dealing with all that paperwork tbh.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 24, 2017, 12:37:29 am
So, Trudeau is accepting asylum seekers from the USA now.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/asylum-seekers-border-crossing-1.4258928

I already have a Canadian passport but if anyone wants one just fly to New York and walk across into Quebec. Much easier than applying via Immigration Canada and dealing with all that paperwork tbh.
At my grandparents house in border Manitoba, we can drive across the border without checks because we've been family friends with the border guard for generations.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 24, 2017, 12:45:41 am
Don't the Canadians have some pretty good temporary shelters for the asylum seekers though? If they're accepting then I assume that means they can handle them.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 24, 2017, 12:59:15 am
Are they mostly from Haiti? Why don't they want to stay in the USA?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on August 24, 2017, 05:07:30 am
Are they mostly from Haiti? Why don't they want to stay in the USA?

They think Trump will deport them and are wagering that our government doesnt have the guts to dampen our taxpayer funded virtue signalling by enforcing our immigration laws. Pretty good bet on their part.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 24, 2017, 11:44:34 am
So, Trudeau is accepting asylum seekers from the USA now.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/asylum-seekers-border-crossing-1.4258928

I already have a Canadian passport but if anyone wants one just fly to New York and walk across into Quebec. Much easier than applying via Immigration Canada and dealing with all that paperwork tbh.
At my grandparents house in border Manitoba, we can drive across the border without checks because we've been family friends with the border guard for generations.

Lol, I used to walk across into Montana several times a week and nobody could stop me.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 25, 2017, 11:06:47 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41055985

Round 2
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 26, 2017, 12:19:05 am
So, who are we all backing/predicting to win in the German federal elections? Seems to me that stock markets are going to take a massive hit if Merkel fails to get re-elected. Also looks as if Erdogan has already given his opinion:
http://www.dw.com/en/erdogan-tells-german-turks-not-to-vote-for-angela-merkel/a-40149680

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 26, 2017, 01:34:38 am
Anybody know what the consequences would be if this turned out to be true? A hefty fine?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41048608
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on August 26, 2017, 02:14:22 am
Anybody know what the consequences would be if this turned out to be true? A hefty fine?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41048608
Probably another resignation and election. Mind you Labour still wouldn't win.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 26, 2017, 02:23:47 am
Well last time I checked Jeremy Corbyn was ahead in the polls so I wouldn't be so sure ;)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: William on August 26, 2017, 02:31:25 am
If the communists win then there will be hell to pay in the U.K.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 26, 2017, 02:37:24 am
Corbyn's catching a ride off of May's incompetence. Hopefully yet another scandal to add to the many others will make her at least *consider* stepping down.

Wouldn't bet on it, though.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 26, 2017, 02:39:24 am
If the communists win then there will be hell to pay in the U.K.
I really hope you're trolling because if you think Jeremy Corbyn is a communist then you don't know what communism is.

And, as much as I love Corbyn and agree with him, I agree with you Gordo. I guess that's kinda how a political opinion shift occurs though. The government fucks up someone steps in to take their place.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 26, 2017, 02:59:48 am
Corbyn's catching a ride off of May's incompetence. Hopefully yet another scandal to add to the many others will make her at least *consider* stepping down.

Wouldn't bet on it, though.
Theresa May won't step down until after Brexit happens at least. There is no way the party wants to replace her before that
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 26, 2017, 03:14:59 am
It's funny since all we see is high profile tories criticizing her to make themselves known for a potential leadership bid  ::)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on August 26, 2017, 05:16:47 am
Well last time I checked Jeremy Corbyn was ahead in the polls so I wouldn't be so sure ;)
If you think opinion polls matter in a first past the post system you don't know very much.
Labour has most of the major population centers. But there are far more rural counties. She could lose 50 seats and still be Prime Minister.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 26, 2017, 09:00:14 am
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/4c48f61b30f29d3b9bac5b0d33427b23.png)
[close]

Isn't his fanbase a little young to be getting the red pill... oh well
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 26, 2017, 12:12:10 pm
Well last time I checked Jeremy Corbyn was ahead in the polls so I wouldn't be so sure ;)
If you think opinion polls matter in a first past the post system you don't know very much.
Labour has most of the major population centers. But there are far more rural counties. She could lose 50 seats and still be Prime Minister.
Of course polls matter because they indicate general public opinion. If they didn't matter then nobody would do them. Remember the exit poll successfully predicted a loss of the Tory majority. And Conway no she couldn't. The tories only have a slim majority. If they lost a further fifty seats then they wouldn't be in government for sure.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on August 26, 2017, 12:26:14 pm
Conway who do you think would want to partner with them? The DUP are essentially Tories, they just wanted more money for NI. If they had to partner with 2 or more other parties there'd be too many compromises and they'd never be able to trust anything or get anything done. Even the current one that they bought for 100k per seat is literally only budget and votes of no confidence.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 26, 2017, 12:34:53 pm
Conway who do you think would want to partner with them? The DUP are essentially Tories

Damn that's a massive insult to the DUP, who are actual proper conservatives rather than Tories.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on August 26, 2017, 05:17:55 pm
Conway who do you think would want to partner with them? The DUP are essentially Tories, they just wanted more money for NI. If they had to partner with 2 or more other parties there'd be too many compromises and they'd never be able to trust anything or get anything done. Even the current one that they bought for 100k per seat is literally only budget and votes of no confidence.
A hung parliament doesn't mean there isn't a prime minister. I'm saying that even if her opinion polls are low its still very likely the Tories would stay in power. Even if he government wouldn't be very effective.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 26, 2017, 05:26:04 pm
It's not likely at all. You know if they lost like a single seat they wouldn't have a majority even with the DUP? This would mean that other parties would have the opportunity to form a majority government in a coalition. If she lost fifty seats like you said then we would almost certainly have a Labour majority government.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on August 26, 2017, 05:29:46 pm
Oh fuck, my bad, forgot about coalition governments. They're not very common here :P
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 26, 2017, 05:32:04 pm
Oh fuck, my bad, forgot about coalition governments. They're not very common here :P
Unfortunately they seem to be becoming very common here  :(
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 27, 2017, 01:39:44 pm
One of the best diplomatic bitch slaps I've ever seen:

Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DILgDQ6XgAITpjE.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on August 27, 2017, 02:18:39 pm
The issue is that wages in Poland are far lower than they are in western Europe. If someone from Poland comes to work in western europe, they are paid according to the standards of Poland. No one in western Europe can compete with wages that low, no one. It's like illegal Mexicans in the US who push normal Americans out of the job market because they are willing to work for almost nothing. It creates unfair competition in the job market. This isn't about the survival of the single market, it is about making the single market fair.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 27, 2017, 05:09:56 pm
The issue is that wages in Poland are far lower than they are in western Europe. If someone from Poland comes to work in western europe, they are paid according to the standards of Poland. No one in western Europe can compete with wages that low, no one. It's like illegal Mexicans in the US who push normal Americans out of the job market because they are willing to work for almost nothing. It creates unfair competition in the job market. This isn't about the survival of the single market, it is about making the single market fair.

Given the EU, and France especially, spent the whole of 2015 telling David Cameron to go away when he tried to reform free movement and labour rules I hope Macron fails. Also it's about time someone told France the word 'No'. The most stinging part of the Polish put-down was telling the French they were 'merely equal members of the EU' which is not how the French see it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on August 27, 2017, 05:50:30 pm
The issue is that wages in Poland are far lower than they are in western Europe. If someone from Poland comes to work in western europe, they are paid according to the standards of Poland. No one in western Europe can compete with wages that low, no one. It's like illegal Mexicans in the US who push normal Americans out of the job market because they are willing to work for almost nothing. It creates unfair competition in the job market. This isn't about the survival of the single market, it is about making the single market fair.

Given the EU, and France especially, spent the whole of 2015 telling David Cameron to go away when he tried to reform free movement and labour rules I hope Macron fails. Also it's about time someone told France the word 'No'. The most stinging part of the Polish put-down was telling the French they were 'merely equal members of the EU' which is not how the French see it.
(https://i.imgur.com/SAqW9FA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ria0R0G.png)

"No"
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 27, 2017, 05:53:57 pm
WW1: "yes"
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 29, 2017, 05:52:41 am
Arriving a little late to the party, but I have had to explain why I am convinced terrorism is not a threat to our society far too often.

I should indeed rephrase a bit: terrorism stands not even the slightest sliver of a chance to maybe begin to topple our way of life. That is, if we choose not to. The power of terrorists is entirely in our own hands. Not in theirs.

Yes, terrorist attacks are horrible and justice to those who perpetrate or plot to perform them must experience wjat justice a modern nation's police commandos can bear upon them, and the deaths are a tragedy. But the threat of terrorism should not extend beyond the worries of our states' intelligence communities. Soldiers on the street are not a solution to violence, they only serve to reassure the people.

I would personally mourn the day Dutch military personnel patrols the street of Amsterdam. (Besides our MPs in tje form they do so now, but thats another matter, different kind of military branch)

You may disagree with me, but this is a discussion of principle and not of fact.

Btw, I am opening a military discussion thread, there is demand foro ne
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 29, 2017, 01:50:46 pm
Terrorism has already changed our way of life, we've already given in. It's little things like this that slowly build up over time:
http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/streets-of-the-future-antiterror-bollards-rolled-out-in-australian-cities/news-story/31ccd6649f8d17cbe223d01178f9ff03
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 29, 2017, 02:50:09 pm
I wouldn't call adding in a few bollards as beginning to change our way of life
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 29, 2017, 03:01:20 pm
I wouldn't call adding in a few bollards as beginning to change our way of life
In the literal sense, yes.
In the psychological sense, no.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 29, 2017, 03:05:21 pm
Don't forget that proposed bulletproof wall around the Eiffel Tower and the large armed police presence at any gathering/event such as the Christmas markets.

In the literal sense, yes.
In the psychological sense, no.

Could be argued "yes" for both imo. Kids having to see soldiers and SWAT on the streets isn't something I had to put up with at their age. Yeah, the psychological effect may not be great, but it's still there.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 29, 2017, 03:10:18 pm
You're acting like terrorism is something new. The IRA tried to bomb us for years. They even killed two little kids in my hometown. But life goes on as it always has. We might increase our defences but it'll never change the core of our society.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 29, 2017, 03:26:34 pm
That's a bad comparison - the IRA was a different type of animal completely. Most of the IRA's soldiers were uniformed and we could fight them directly. More so, we knew what their end game and goal was.

Non of which can be said for ISIS. We cannot negotiate for a caliphate.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 29, 2017, 04:08:41 pm
I wouldn't call adding in a few bollards as beginning to change our way of life

Did you not read the second sentence of what I wrote? As I said, it's little things over time that build up. Go to any major UK city and you'll see that armed police are now a common sight-major change for a country that prides itself on having an unarmed police force, or at least used to.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on August 29, 2017, 04:50:45 pm
I wouldn't call adding in a few bollards as beginning to change our way of life

Did you not read the second sentence of what I wrote? As I said, it's little things over time that build up. Go to any major UK city and you'll see that armed police are now a common sight-major change for a country that prides itself on having an unarmed police force, or at least used to.
At least they dont have a Police with Military weapons (and i am Not Just talking about asault Rifles) Like in the USA
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 29, 2017, 04:57:15 pm
That's a bad comparison - the IRA was a different type of animal completely. Most of the IRA's soldiers were uniformed and we could fight them directly. More so, we knew what their end game and goal was.

Non of which can be said for ISIS. We cannot negotiate for a caliphate.

The IRA did countless bombings and even managed to kill several MP's. The Provisional IRA killed at least 500 civilians, and maybe as much as 630. Besides, most of ISIS soldiers (like 99,9%) are also uniformed and fought directly in Iraq, Syria, Libanon and Libya. You're really in denial at this point.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 29, 2017, 05:06:58 pm
Gordo it doesn't matter if they're uniformed or not if they put a bomb into a bin and blow up two kids
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 29, 2017, 05:13:58 pm
The IRA did countless bombings and even managed to kill several MP's. The Provisional IRA killed at least 500 civilians, and maybe as much as 630. Besides, most of ISIS soldiers (like 99,9%) are also uniformed and fought directly in Iraq, Syria, Libanon and Libya. You're really in denial at this point.

I don't recall disputing the fact that the IRA were terrorists, I stated that the bombers were working at the behest of the uniformed force and thus had the same objective which the UK as we know gave into. In contrast to ISIS bombers who have a seemingly never ending mission with no rational objective.

As for ISIS soldiers: their days of being uniformed are pretty much at an end - their forces are scattered in the ME (losing the BoM is a telling sign), recruiting has dropped to an unsustainable level and their trained fighters are fleeing west to Europe.

"You're really in denial at this point." Had to double check your username after reading that part. Hilarious.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 29, 2017, 05:27:36 pm
Don't forget that proposed bulletproof wall around the Eiffel Tower and the large armed police presence at any gathering/event such as the Christmas markets.

In the literal sense, yes.
In the psychological sense, no.

Could be argued "yes" for both imo. Kids having to see soldiers and SWAT on the streets isn't something I had to put up with at their age. Yeah, the psychological effect may not be great, but it's still there.
Bollards are temporary and a uniformed police presence isn't, as others have pointed out, anything really new. The IRA is a decent example as saying terror has existed for longer than radical Islam. However, the psychological sense is changed because the IRA had a clear set of goals, which could be negotiated with. There's a difference between:
1. Withdrawal of the British army from Ireland
2. Political independence/autonomy
and
1. The destruction of the Western world
2. Installation of the worldwide Caliphate

So in a literal sense, terror won't change society, but psychologically it already has. Sadiq Khan's comments about "getting used to it" is proof of that.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 30, 2017, 12:02:03 am
Not even a worldwide capliphate. Only like.... half of Europe, the south except Spain and going no further north than Bavaria I think, and going not further west than India, not further north than the Himalayas, and almost all of Africa.

So really they're quite modest in their demands
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 30, 2017, 12:40:16 am
Not even a worldwide capliphate. Only like.... half of Europe, the south except Spain and going no further north than Bavaria I think, and going not further west than India, not further north than the Himalayas, and almost all of Africa.

So really they're quite modest in their demands
my bad
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 30, 2017, 12:47:22 am
Does that include Ibiza or nah?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 30, 2017, 01:46:14 pm
Too much alcohol, to zealot islamists only accessible in a hazmat suit
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: fruitocino on August 30, 2017, 08:05:16 pm
So what are your predictions for the German election? I'm guessing that not much will change, so probably another CDU/SPD coalition. I would like to see the SPD as the major partner though (which seems unlikely, for me at least)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 30, 2017, 10:08:02 pm
If the polls are right it'll be another coalition between CDU/SPD. Only major change will be AfD representation in the Bundestag, possibly as third largest party. Looks like Merkel has appeased German anger enough over her refugee policy in order to stay on as Chancellor.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 30, 2017, 10:34:30 pm
Let's be honest though polls don't mean shite
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on August 31, 2017, 12:03:41 am
Depends. Most polls were fairly accurate during the Dutch and French elections. Doesn't mean it's a guarantee they'll be right but I wouldn't instantly discard them either.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 31, 2017, 12:07:15 am
Depends. Most polls were fairly accurate during the Dutch and French elections. Doesn't mean it's a guarantee they'll be right but I wouldn't instantly discard them either.
It was a joke about all the polls that have been wrong recently but okay
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 31, 2017, 12:48:16 am
It's safe to say Merkel's secured her chancellorship yet again. Probably for the best, given Schulz's lunacy.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on August 31, 2017, 11:35:51 am
I don't know if I should be happy about it, or sad.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 31, 2017, 03:57:50 pm
(https://duitslandinstituut.nl/assets/upload/artikel/Achtergrond/Cover_Er_ist_wieder_da_800_EichbornVerlag.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 31, 2017, 03:59:53 pm
*sie
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Dokletian on August 31, 2017, 04:00:10 pm
It's safe to say Merkel's secured her chancellorship yet again. Probably for the best, given Schulz's lunacy.
Who knows....
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 31, 2017, 04:53:34 pm
I don't know if I should be happy about it, or sad.

If your only two ballot options were "AfD" or "AfD Lite", would you be happy or sad?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on August 31, 2017, 05:06:23 pm
?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 31, 2017, 05:17:19 pm
Just hinting towards the fact there's no socially conservative party to even vote for. Surely that's not healthy for a democratic country?

Excluding NSDAP 2.0 the AfD
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on August 31, 2017, 05:18:20 pm
If there was a large part of the country that held socially conservative views then there would be a social conservative party
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on August 31, 2017, 05:33:45 pm
Not unless one was founded beforehand, given that the only party currently socially conservative has extremist views and incompetent leadership (which one might joke is nothing more than controlled opposition at this point). To put it into perspective: the Greens have more support than the AfD. The party is a joke, and even when Merkel was facing massive backlash during 2015, due to her handling of the refugee crisis, they made a petty 4% gain in opinion polls which quickly dwindled.

It'd take another Treaty of Versailles to spur any noticeable turnout for them.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on August 31, 2017, 07:20:20 pm
If there was a large part of the country that held socially conservative views then there would be a social conservative party

Yeah, it's supposed to be the CDU/CSU. Don't forget Merkel voted against gay marriage.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Vincenzo on August 31, 2017, 07:27:08 pm
Don't forget the NPD!  :P
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on August 31, 2017, 08:55:41 pm
If there was a large part of the country that held socially conservative views then there would be a social conservative party

When there is a multi-aprty system, pretty much this
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on August 31, 2017, 10:06:28 pm
If you Not only Check the polls but also so the latest election results of the German Federal states, you will See that the FDP, an economic-liberal Party is one the rise again. Merkel had a coalition with them before and CDU already stated they would do one again. In the lasts polls CDU-FDP at least approached 50%
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Phoen!x on September 01, 2017, 02:47:42 pm
If the polls are right it'll be another coalition between CDU/SPD. Only major change will be AfD representation in the Bundestag, possibly as third largest party. Looks like Merkel has appeased German anger enough over her refugee policy in order to stay on as Chancellor.

The German public is just too domesticated
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 01, 2017, 03:03:43 pm
How many times in recent weeks have the home office fucked up and told someone who is legally allowed to be in the UK to leave..
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 01, 2017, 03:41:02 pm
How many times in recent weeks have the home office fucked up and told someone who is legally allowed to be in the UK to leave..

It's almost as if sprawling state bureaucracies are inefficient and make loads of mistakes so it's a bad idea to base your entire economic system on it...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 01, 2017, 04:31:36 pm
How many times in recent weeks have the home office fucked up and told someone who is legally allowed to be in the UK to leave..

It's almost as if sprawling state bureaucracies are inefficient and make loads of mistakes so it's a bad idea to base your entire economic system on it...
Or maybe they're just nob eds
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 01, 2017, 05:15:45 pm
Too worried and stressed about Brexit to care about mere people.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 01, 2017, 06:10:21 pm
It's almost as if the aforementioned issues are related to Brexit
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 01, 2017, 06:11:33 pm
It's almost as if the aforementioned issues are related to Brexit
Brexit isn't a great excuse for utter stupidity to be honest
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 01, 2017, 06:30:45 pm
It's almost as if the aforementioned issues are related to Brexit
Brexit isn't a great excuse for utter stupidity to be honest
^
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 01, 2017, 06:36:41 pm
Brexit isn't a great excuse for utter stupidity to be honest

That's nice
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 01, 2017, 06:39:14 pm
Brexit isn't a great excuse for utter stupidity to be honest

That's nice
Okay?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 01, 2017, 06:42:44 pm
Glad that's cleared up.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 01, 2017, 06:46:34 pm
Not gonna lie Gordo but sometimes you really send my head west
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 03, 2017, 03:53:10 pm
Old Teresa is in trouble

some Labour trouble
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 03, 2017, 09:29:56 pm
Well, that should stir things up in the Asia-Pacific even further...
https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/904415719793745920
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 03, 2017, 10:42:06 pm
Well, that should stir things up in the Asia-Pacific even further...
https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/904415719793745920
For a guy who is supposed to be preventing further escalation he isn't doing very well
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on September 04, 2017, 02:00:10 am
But remember, Shillary's the warhawk.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 04, 2017, 02:02:25 am
But remember, Shillary's the warhawk.
It's good to remind us of this. Good to see what the US avoided
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 04, 2017, 06:35:23 am
But remember, Shillary's the warhawk.
It's good to remind us of this. Good to see what the US avoided
The US isn't avoiding it very well. More like hurtling straight towards it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 04, 2017, 06:53:12 am
But remember, Shillary's the warhawk.
It's good to remind us of this. Good to see what the US avoided
The US isn't avoiding it very well. More like hurtling straight towards it.
Forgive me if I don't believe a conflict with NK comes soon.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 04, 2017, 06:58:20 am
I don't believe it will either but you can't argue that tensions aren't the highest in a long time. When it comes to diplomacy trump is like a bull in a china shop.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 04, 2017, 02:47:17 pm
It isn't really diplomatic incompetence when Trump calls out NK. The President has to address threats to national security no matter what - even if those threats are as hallow as NK's.

In reality, Kim isn't prepared to destroy his dynasty and be forgotten forever, and Trump isn't prepared to wage an unwinnable war in the east with China.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 04, 2017, 03:32:30 pm
This is what happens when you kick the can down the road for so long until it becomes an unavoidable problem. Should have been dealt with by Bill Clinton or Bush II. I sympathise with Trump on this, it's a massive problem he's inherited from his predecessors. I guess they thought North Korea would eventually collapse and the issue could be won via diplomacy, but that's not going to happen.

I should think a military solution is out of the question give the risks, NK will continue its nuclear testing and Japan and/or South Korea will start developing their own nuclear weapons are a deterrence.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 04, 2017, 04:16:41 pm
I agree with you on the fact that the issue should have been dealt with earlier. For once I actually agree that Trump's hard stance on North Korea should be commended but for me it is the way he's going about it with threats via social media rather than dealing with the issue directly with talks with NK like a president should.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 04, 2017, 04:37:18 pm
I agree with you on the fact that the issue should have been dealt with earlier. For once I actually agree that Trump's hard stance on North Korea should be commended but for me it is the way he's going about it with threats via social media rather than dealing with the issue directly with talks with NK like a president should.
What the hell is he going to say to NK? Would you kindly give use those missiles that you spent years developing? Like thats going to happen. There really isn't a negotiable way about solving this problem.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 04, 2017, 04:55:55 pm
I agree with you on the fact that the issue should have been dealt with earlier. For once I actually agree that Trump's hard stance on North Korea should be commended but for me it is the way he's going about it with threats via social media rather than dealing with the issue directly with talks with NK like a president should.
What the hell is he going to say to NK? Would you kindly give use those missiles that you spent years developing? Like thats going to happen. There really isn't a negotiable way about solving this problem.
Obviously not. But what is the alternative? All out war with Korea and the Chinese? Yeah that'll be great. When I said talk I didn't say ask nicely. He needs to have the aggressive negotiation tactic he seems to possess on twitter and take it to the North Koreans. The UN has shows that it can seriously damage the Korean economy so we have to tighten the fist and show them that we won't back down, as diplomats rather than over active twitter browsers.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 04, 2017, 05:28:35 pm
The UN's sanctions have proved to be useless; Kim has never cared about the prices of goods for his people and he won't start now.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 04, 2017, 05:53:01 pm
Then what do you want to do? Invade and lose thousands of soldiers fighting the Chinese?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 04, 2017, 06:07:10 pm
If things remain as they are now, the US does nothing. If North Korea strikes first, it loses the support of China, and then we can invade.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 04, 2017, 06:34:07 pm
we can invade.

Yes because China will totally allow the U.S. to do so. I think not. China will be the one doing the invading.

NK - U.S. is at a stalemate now. Invading wont work (too costly), talking won't do anything (they already have the fucking missiles. The only thing that might work is drying up NK completely. If they can't fuel the rockets, they won't fly. But that has proven to be a useless endeavour in the past so it's gonna fail anyway.

And no, a conflict is not likely. But what if a NK missile test fails, and accidentally hits Japan?

Mistakes happen and have been cause for war before.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 04, 2017, 06:56:21 pm
I admit an invasion is unlikely, but when NK loses the backing of east Asia then knocking out Kim, by some means or another, becomes an option.

Again, "drying up NK" to the point of collapse isn't an option for the west. North Korea's main import/export partners are Russia and China, with the latter being a powerhouse of export. In addition, NK produces what little food and trade goods it has on its own, with no aid from the west. There's nothing the west can do that doesn't involve the military.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 04, 2017, 06:59:36 pm
There's nothing you can do unless you want a major war that could quite easily escalate into WWIII. Best option is to preserve the status-quo, perhaps with Japan getting a nuclear deterrence of its own. Well, I guess there *is* one thing you can do...hack into NK's nuclear programme when they're conducting their next test (they've done it before, dunno how easy it is to do it for a second time and cover it up), get a (non-nuclear armed) missile to hit a small Japanese target and then you can probably invade without the Chinese getting involved since Pyongyang is the aggressor.

Risky move of course, though nobody would believe the North Koreans if they say it was hacked. You could say it was either a malfunction or a deliberate attempt to test the US alliance. Doubt the Chinese would be willing to back up NK at that point.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 04, 2017, 07:02:34 pm
I should probably add that the Chinese would probably cross the border first to beat the Americans to it under that scenario-I guess the US could invade from the other direction. You'd end up with an enlarged South Korea on the one hand, plus an expensive military occupation for Beijing on the other. That'd be a win.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 04, 2017, 07:27:08 pm
I find it very unlikely that China would risk a war with the U.S. The U.S has a far larger and more advanced military than China, and the U.S has a far more deadly and larger nuclear arsenal than China. The U.S also has far more compotent allies than China. You're telling me China is going to risk inhalation for this tiny rump state that it doesn't even really like?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 04, 2017, 07:50:38 pm
Lol. If anything a surgical strategical strike to knock out NKs leadership is more likely.  There will be no war or let alone a world war, unless North Korea strikes first (then they'd just be wiped out within a month)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 04, 2017, 08:09:41 pm
I find it very unlikely that China would risk a war with the U.S. The U.S has a far larger and more advanced military than China, and the U.S has a far more deadly and larger nuclear arsenal than China. The U.S also has far more compotent allies than China. You're telling me China is going to risk inhalation for this tiny rump state that it doesn't even really like?

Yes, because it's repeatedly given its word to do so. The upper echelons of the Chinese Communist Party is also full of people who regard the Beijing-Pyongyang alliance as sacrosanct.
http://news.sky.com/story/north-korea-leader-kim-jong-un-killed-relatives-over-china-coup-plot-11002869

It would be regarded as a massive blow to Chinese prestige if the US military overruns North Korea as well as a significant foreign policy defeat. China does not want a US ally on its border, regards DPRK as a client state and has pumped £billions to prop the country up over the years. It's far more likely that the Chinese will act first to preclude US military action by invading and occupying it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 04, 2017, 09:16:01 pm
As Steven said, China has promised to come to North Korea's aid if the US strikes first. You could say that the Chinese won't want to risk a war with the Americans but that goes both ways.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 04, 2017, 10:12:07 pm
They're saying it as a deterrent because they know the U.S public will worry shitless if they think they may go to war with China. China doesn't think NK is worth being destroyed by the U.S. No one is stupid enough to believe it. Yes the U.S doesn't want to risk a war with the Chinese, but its not hard to tell its a lot more likely for a U.S victory in said war.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 04, 2017, 10:14:41 pm
It might not be a question of if the US will win but what the cost will be both financially and in terms of lives. You're saying China's words are empty and yet have no evidence to suggest that it's true. China has interests in stopping the fall of the regime.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 04, 2017, 10:28:21 pm
It might not be a question of if the US will win but what the cost will be both financially and in terms of lives. You're saying China's words are empty and yet have no evidence to suggest that it's true. China has interests in stopping the fall of the regime.
I'm China's word are empty because if a 17 year old in Canada can determine the U.S would win, so would the Chinese government. And the Chinese government doesn't really want to lose a large scale war. It would basically mean the end of a communist China. They issue the warnings hoping the U.S would back down from any potential threat and so leave NK alone, which is better for China. But NK falling isn't the end of the world for China, it just makes it a little shittier so its in their interest to keep it communist.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 04, 2017, 10:32:16 pm
People have fought wars for a lot less. Of course China can't risk a war with the Americans but It goes both ways. The US might objectively win the war but the cost would be so high that you would have to ask yourself if it was worth it.

Neither China or the US could facilitate the war. China is he USAs largest goods trader.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 05, 2017, 12:37:05 pm
A war with Nk would  prodce losses on the U.S. side to which the populace is not accustomed. Support of the war would dissipate as soon as the coffins roll back home.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 05, 2017, 01:34:52 pm
A war with Nk would  prodce losses on the U.S. side to which the populace is not accustomed. Support of the war would dissipate as soon as the coffins roll back home.
Completely agree. Both the British and the American public were horrified at the casualties in Afghanistan and Korea will be ten times worse.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 05, 2017, 01:40:13 pm
If North Korea does engage first, it will be South Korea bearing the brunt of casualties. Not us Americans or any other country, so they should be the ones ready and willing to fight. 

Anyways I'll say it again, ain't gonna be any war, it's just typical saber rattling and trump isn't stupid.  He has better things on his mind such as lowering taxes.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on September 05, 2017, 02:31:15 pm
it's just typical saber rattling and trump isn't stupid.  He has better things on his mind such as lowering taxes.
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Ffacebook%2F000%2F023%2F021%2Fe02e5ffb5f980cd8262cf7f0ae00a4a9_press-x-to-doubt-memes-memesuper-la-noire-doubt-meme_419-238.jpg&hash=31a89e67c7c9e204472b3ba8447d8fa458c58ab8)

Spoiler
raging trump supporters calling me a libtard, left idiot or what ever insult comes to theire mind, not knowing anything about my political views. Oh and there are just behind them the guys that say i have not read enough facts about the topic   ;) If you want to know why i think Trump is an idiot, just watch this Video, its an example http://blog.zeit.de/teilchen/2017/08/23/praesidentschaft-donald-trump-luegen/ (I know the page is in german, the video is not)
[close]
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 05, 2017, 03:14:55 pm
I think you're forgetting about all those generals and top military strategists Trump has at his behest, lol. What few moves the US is going to make in regards to NK will be calculated.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 05, 2017, 03:15:38 pm
I think you're forgetting about all those generals and top military strategists Trump has at his command, lol. What few moves the US is going to make in regards to NK will be calculated.
Are these the same group of generals which coordinated Afghanistan and Iraq?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 05, 2017, 03:35:30 pm
You don't need to be a military general to be able to recognize that an invasion on the scale of the Iraq War wouldn't sit very well with China. No western troops are going to land in North Korea anytime soon.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 05, 2017, 04:35:41 pm
I think you're forgetting about all those generals and top military strategists Trump has at his command, lol. What few moves the US is going to make in regards to NK will be calculated.
Are these the same group of generals which coordinated Afghanistan and Iraq?
Let's not forget both invasions were excellently planned and executed. It was the occupation which wasn't
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on September 05, 2017, 04:55:29 pm
I think you're forgetting about all those generals and top military strategists Trump has at his command, lol. What few moves the US is going to make in regards to NK will be calculated.
Are these the same group of generals which coordinated Afghanistan and Iraq?
Let's not forget both invasions were excellently planned and executed. It was the occupation which wasn't
+1
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 05, 2017, 06:16:58 pm
I think you're forgetting about all those generals and top military strategists Trump has at his command, lol. What few moves the US is going to make in regards to NK will be calculated.
Are these the same group of generals which coordinated Afghanistan and Iraq?

Please, the failure of the Afghanistan mission was due to a failure in political strategy, not a military failure.
If you really want me to explain this I can write a small essay about this but I'd be happier not to.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 05, 2017, 06:29:06 pm
I think you're forgetting about all those generals and top military strategists Trump has at his command, lol. What few moves the US is going to make in regards to NK will be calculated.
Are these the same group of generals which coordinated Afghanistan and Iraq?

Please, the failure of the Afghanistan mission was due to a failure in political strategy, not a military failure.
If you really want me to explain this I can write a small essay about this but I'd be happier not to.
I wouldn't have to write an essay. Former commanders have come out and openly said that British troops were inadequately prepared for Afghanistan. The chilcot enquirey even found that the British forces were ill equipped and planning was poor in iraq as well as the army being slow to adapt to what was happening on the ground such as the threat of IEDs. And Theodin the invasion went well sure, but that was only the first part of the involvement in Iraq. The military still failed to achieved their objectives during the occupation. Besides, fighting China and North Korea would be a whole different ball game.

I don't know if it was the fault of the generals, from what I've read much of the blame falls at the feet of the British ministry of defence but that links to the original comment of those who surround trump were still the same people who failed to achieve what they wanted in both Afghanistan and Iraq, which is evident if you look at the news.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 05, 2017, 07:26:39 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsXyXZsF5kc


So I told Trump to get rid of all the illegal students in the US... he actually did it the absolute madman hahahahaha!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 05, 2017, 09:11:15 pm
Ok.. if we are talking about US forces and their strategy in Iraq, militarily it was a success. Sustaining only the casualties they did and deploying and coordinating 100,000+ soldiers, carpet bombing cities then advancing with their ground and tank units, and essentially toppling the Iraqi government as a whole.  Politically it was obviously a disaster.  Same for the U.K. strategy (which helped with sortie missions and special forces)

Afghanistan was and still is a shit show.  Obama only made it worse with the 2012-2013 surge there.  There is absolutely no reason why our American military personnel are still dying over there, literally just 2 weeks ago there was another army guy KIA.  I know too many veterans who served there who wonder the same thing. 
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 05, 2017, 09:23:46 pm
The thing is that you can't easily distinguish political and military success in this kind of situation since the military was the tool used to try and achieve a political aim. In Iraq obviously the supposed aim at the beginning of operations was to locate and seize any WMD within the possession of Iraq.

When none were found the objective changed. Since the regime had been toppled the main objective was to now deal with the insurgency and install a diplomatic government and leave behind a peaceful, stable nation. It was the military's job to enforce this aim and since it obviously was not achieved
, military success was not established.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 05, 2017, 09:55:32 pm
With your logic Toffe, the 1940 German invasion of France and the low countries was a failure as it didn't end their resistance. See, how it doesn't really make sense?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 05, 2017, 10:05:44 pm
With your logic Toffe, the 1940 German invasion of France and the low countries was a failure as it didn't end their resistance. See, how it doesn't really make sense?
There is a big difference between a conventional war where the aim is to take land like in the Second World War and a guerilla war where the main objective is to kill your enemy. The military intervention in Iraq was a failure because they didn't achieve their mission which was to leave behind a stable country. Germany were successful because their aim was to conquer France, which they did. Now if their aim was to put down the French resistance then they wouldn't have been successful. You can't say Iraq was a success when the entire focus for the invasion ended up being futile.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 06, 2017, 01:00:17 am
The U.S led coalition invasion destroyed the Iraqi army and capitulated the Saddam regime in 2 months. The mission was to remove Saddam from power and neutralize any WMD's. This was done and completed in two months. There was never a preset "We're invading Iraq to make it stable". The U.S didn't invade Iraq to fight insurgents, they fought insurgents due to their invasion of Iraq, just as the Germans battled the Dutch and French in WW2. Eliminating the insurgents and creating a stable Iraq became an objective after the main goal had been completed. The infamous "Mission Accomplished Speech" given by Bush was given after the defeat of organized Iraqi forces. Which is technically correct seeing the mission had been accomplished.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 06, 2017, 03:11:07 am
The U.S led coalition invasion destroyed the Iraqi army and capitulated the Saddam regime in 2 months. The mission was to remove Saddam from power and neutralize any WMD's. This was done and completed in two months. There was never a preset "We're invading Iraq to make it stable". The U.S didn't invade Iraq to fight insurgents, they fought insurgents due to their invasion of Iraq, just as the Germans battled the Dutch and French in WW2. Eliminating the insurgents and creating a stable Iraq became an objective after the main goal had been completed. The infamous "Mission Accomplished Speech" given by Bush was given after the defeat of organized Iraqi forces. Which is technically correct seeing the mission had been accomplished.

Stabilising and re-building Iraq was an objective from the outset and part of the overall mission. If you don't believe me here's Bush and Blair during the invasion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0xGWaDb2Yg
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 06, 2017, 04:14:44 pm
It is extremely obvious that soldiers were unprepared for the Afganistan campaign. No military had trained for insurgency missions before but were used to conventional, cold war threat.

really only once before has an insurgency in modern setting been quelled with relative success, and that was by the British in Malaysia. This did cost extreme amount of money and took them decades to achieve with an impossibly rigorous program. We are talking about the disaster that was the Afghanistan campaign and people blame the military, which is hardly fair. It takes more than 14 years to rebuild an entire country.

Also, Karth, the fact that soldiers didn't know what they were doing in Afghanistan is a systematic problem that is frequent in the U.S. military. The military leadership never seems to be willling to tell their soliders what they're there to do and why they should do it. It is a doctrine problem that enlisted men don't get shared the details of their mission because officers are unwilling to have to explain to their subordinates what it is they're actually fucking doing. the term "theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do and die" is way too prevelant in the U.S. MIlitary
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on September 07, 2017, 06:57:14 pm
Dennis rodman is our only hope for peace with North Korea tbh
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 12, 2017, 04:45:23 pm
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/851707/Germany-WW2-Poland-reparations-compensation-Angela-Merkel-Nazis

A P O L O G I S E.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on September 12, 2017, 05:45:39 pm
For that money germany could invade poland a 2nd time.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on September 12, 2017, 06:02:50 pm
For that money germany could invade poland a 2nd time.

*clap* lets *clap* make *clap* it *clap* happen *clap*

*clap* lets *clap* make *clap* it *clap* happen *clap*

*clap* lets *clap* make *clap* it *clap* happen *clap*

*clap* lets *clap* make *clap* it *clap* happen *clap*
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 12, 2017, 06:16:42 pm
I just wanna know what marks got banned for tbh

Edit: Did I get shafted?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Vincenzo on September 12, 2017, 06:52:25 pm
For that money germany could invade poland a 2nd time.
I've started the first part of the invasion, I'm successfully undercover living in Ostpreußen.  I have not been detected yet, nobody will expect the coming invasion.
Deutschland über alles!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 12, 2017, 07:25:12 pm
You re Dutch mate, tone it down a notch
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 12, 2017, 07:44:38 pm
Dutch courage
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 12, 2017, 08:47:35 pm
Not the first time the Dutch have collab'd with the Nazis Germany t b h
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 12, 2017, 08:54:18 pm
How to pay down the national debt: by Poland
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Vincenzo on September 12, 2017, 10:10:55 pm
You re Dutch mate, tone it down a notch
We are all Deutschers!  8)

Without jokes, the country I live in currently (Poland) is run by right wing catholic idiots that are really good at destroying the country, Germany should mostly just ignore this call for reparations.

It's stupid and mostly a ploy by the government here to make people in Poland hate Germans, because then they can point at them and the EU and say that people should blame them for the internal Polish problems with economy, taxes, and corruption.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 12, 2017, 10:46:34 pm
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/851707/Germany-WW2-Poland-reparations-compensation-Angela-Merkel-Nazis

A P O L O G I S E.
What a meme, would make sense if Nazis were still in power
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 12, 2017, 11:08:36 pm
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/851707/Germany-WW2-Poland-reparations-compensation-Angela-Merkel-Nazis

A P O L O G I S E.
What a meme, would make sense if Nazis were still in power

The amount they want is ridiculous but they have a point-they were an unwilling Soviet satellite state post-1945 and the USSR stopped them claiming reparations they were legitimately owed. Germany got off pretty lightly if you look at reparations paid vs damage caused in Poland.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 12, 2017, 11:13:29 pm
I think the concept was trying not to have a repeat of the TOV but that's just my opinion
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Vincenzo on September 12, 2017, 11:47:48 pm
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/851707/Germany-WW2-Poland-reparations-compensation-Angela-Merkel-Nazis

A P O L O G I S E.
What a meme, would make sense if Nazis were still in power

The amount they want is ridiculous but they have a point-they were an unwilling Soviet satellite state post-1945 and the USSR stopped them claiming reparations they were legitimately owed. Germany got off pretty lightly if you look at reparations paid vs damage caused in Poland.
So poland should give back the regions of Pommern, Silesien, West and east prussia to Germany? or pay for the land they gained during the soviet occupation?

This whole reparations shit is stupid and out of sense.. even in the latest 2004 treaty Poland agreed with the membership of the EU to not pursue any further reparations.

Things are how they are now in europe. and history cannot be changed. the people that suffered from the war are mostly dead themselves now, can we finally move on? The current German government and the current German people are not at all responsible for what happened so many years ago.

But once again, its only a Polish political ploy to make people hate Germans and keep the polish population from talking about internal problems, which Poland have many.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 13, 2017, 12:13:02 am
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/851707/Germany-WW2-Poland-reparations-compensation-Angela-Merkel-Nazis

A P O L O G I S E.
What a meme, would make sense if Nazis were still in power

The amount they want is ridiculous but they have a point-they were an unwilling Soviet satellite state post-1945 and the USSR stopped them claiming reparations they were legitimately owed. Germany got off pretty lightly if you look at reparations paid vs damage caused in Poland.
So poland should give back the regions of Pommern, Silesien, West and east prussia to Germany? or pay for the land they gained during the soviet occupation?

This whole reparations shit is stupid and out of sense.. even in the latest 2004 treaty Poland agreed with the membership of the EU to not pursue any further reparations.

Things are how they are now in europe. and history cannot be changed. the people that suffered from the war are mostly dead themselves now, can we finally move on? The current German government and the current German people are not at all responsible for what happened so many years ago.

But once again, its only a Polish political ploy to make people hate Germans and keep the polish population from talking about internal problems, which Poland have many.

Poland didn't gain any land overall post-1945, in fact it lost it. Sure Germany had to give up 101,000 km2 to Poland, but in return Poland had to give up 178,000 km2 to the USSR. That's a net loss of 77,000 km2.

Sure Poland was forced to accept the 1953 decision in return for EU membership, but that doesn't escape the fact that they were totally screwed over during the post-1945 negotiations. Soviet interests came first. It's both a ploy and a legitimate grievance, but Germany should pay *something*. If it can spend 20bn Euros on refugees in 2016 alone then it can cough up for the Poles.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 13, 2017, 12:19:39 am
I guess we better compensate all the desendents of the people caught up in the slave trade then. Maybe say sorry to the French for the Hundred Years' War whilst we're at it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 13, 2017, 12:31:57 am
I guess we better compensate all the desendents of the people caught up in the slave trade then. Maybe say sorry to the French for the Hundred Years' War whilst we're at it.
I don't remember when the descendants of the slave trade and the French were promised reparations and then taken over by a foreign power and turned them down against the interests of those people
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 13, 2017, 12:47:05 am
I guess we better compensate all the desendents of the people caught up in the slave trade then. Maybe say sorry to the French for the Hundred Years' War whilst we're at it.
I don't remember when the descendants of the slave trade and the French were promised reparations and then taken over by a foreign power and turned them down against the interests of those people
So because something happened which prevented them from receiving the funds then means that a country which has nothing to do with Nazism anymore has to cough up money? My point is that you can't come back over 70 years later to try and reverse something that has happened through no fault of the German government. The world has moved on and demanding money only creates divisions rather than doing any real justice.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 13, 2017, 12:54:34 am
I guess we better compensate all the desendents of the people caught up in the slave trade then. Maybe say sorry to the French for the Hundred Years' War whilst we're at it.
I don't remember when the descendants of the slave trade and the French were promised reparations and then taken over by a foreign power and turned them down against the interests of those people
So because something happened which prevented them from receiving the funds then means that a country which has nothing to do with Nazism anymore has to cough up money? My point is that you can't come back over 70 years later to try and reverse something that has happened through no fault of the German government. The world has moved on and demanding money only creates divisions rather than doing any real justice.
Yeah I'd somewhat agree with you. Just saying your analogy is faulty
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 13, 2017, 12:59:10 am
Don't dis my analogies. I'm still waiting for my tea reparations for Boston
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on September 13, 2017, 06:02:26 pm
Hang on why should Germany be the one to pay Poland? As you said, Poland gained German land but lost land to Russia. Surely it should be the Russians to pay. The only reason they're going after Germany is because guilt is still part of the national identity and Russia would probably invade them for the insult of demanding land.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 13, 2017, 06:19:12 pm
Hang on why should Germany be the one to pay Poland? As you said, Poland gained German land but lost land to Russia. Surely it should be the Russians to pay. The only reason they're going after Germany is because guilt is still part of the national identity and Russia would probably invade them for the insult of demanding land.

Because as part of the 1953 agreement the USSR forced Poland to waive a large proportion of the reparations they were owed from East Germany. And yeah, they're going after Germany because Berlin has been handing out free money recently and has a moral obligation to pay up.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 13, 2017, 06:28:08 pm
Hang on why should Germany be the one to pay Poland? As you said, Poland gained German land but lost land to Russia. Surely it should be the Russians to pay. The only reason they're going after Germany is because guilt is still part of the national identity and Russia would probably invade them for the insult of demanding land.

Because as part of the 1953 agreement the USSR forced Poland to waive a large proportion of the reparations they were owed from East Germany. And yeah, they're going after Germany because Berlin has been handing out free money recently and has a moral obligation to pay up.
There's a difference between spending money how their government wants to and strong arming them in paying something which happened decades ago. They don't have a moral obligation to do anything. Current Germany has no association with Nazi Germany whatsoever. As mentioned before, demanding concessions like this only leads to divisions rather than true justice.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 13, 2017, 07:47:32 pm
There's a difference between spending money how their government wants to and strong arming them in paying something which happened decades ago. They don't have a moral obligation to do anything. Current Germany has no association with Nazi Germany whatsoever. As mentioned before, demanding concessions like this only leads to divisions rather than true justice.

The Versailles peace negotiations ended with the Weimar Republic paying up for the actions of the German Empire, it's happened before.

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 13, 2017, 08:45:42 pm
Yes and that wasn't even 20 years after the war. Poland is now demanding money all of the sudden after 70 years...
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 13, 2017, 08:50:23 pm
There's a difference between spending money how their government wants to and strong arming them in paying something which happened decades ago. They don't have a moral obligation to do anything. Current Germany has no association with Nazi Germany whatsoever. As mentioned before, demanding concessions like this only leads to divisions rather than true justice.

The Versailles peace negotiations ended with the Weimar Republic paying up for the actions of the German Empire, it's happened before.
Yes and do we all remember what that lead to?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 13, 2017, 09:16:55 pm
Yes and do we all remember what that lead to?

The Treaty of Versailles certainly drummed up anger, but I think it's safe to say that the Great Depression was a much larger factor in Hitler's success climbing to power.

Anyway that's a bit of a digression, and Poland's claim has already been denied.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 13, 2017, 09:27:03 pm
Yes and that wasn't even 20 years after the war. Poland is now demanding money all of the sudden after 70 years...

Doesn't matter, these claims can still be made. Wasn't so long ago Israel demanded a further 1 billion Euros. See also claims by the Mau Mau against the British etc.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-to-seek-another-1b-euros-holocaust-in-reparations-from-germany-1.1739

It's not really 'all of a sudden' given this has been a debate in Poland since the fall of Communism, and Germany disgraced itself by telling the Poles a condition of their EU membership had to be an end to any claims for reparations. It's opportunistic to bring it up again now but it's not that out of the blue. This is still a really good deal for Germany given the amount of destruction they caused.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 13, 2017, 09:31:17 pm
Yes and do we all remember what that lead to?

The Treaty of Versailles certainly drummed up anger, but I think it's safe to say that the Great Depression was a much larger factor in Hitler's success climbing to power.

Anyway that's a bit of a digression, and Poland's claim has already been denied.
How do you think Hitler became leader of the Nazi party in the first place? He was famed for his Nationalistic speeches centred around the treaty of Versailles. Sure his popularity was waning before the hit of the great depression but he used this as a platform to gather support for the reversal of the treaty as he placed great emphasis on it's role in Germany's misfortunes. His entire foreign policy during his first years in power were focused upon the reversal of the treaty of Versailles, hence why many had sympathetic views towards his cause and supported him. Both had a great contribution and it's pretty fair to say that Hitler might not have come to power had the treaty not been so harsh.

And Steven it really feels like you just love to get one up on the Germans whenever possible because you feel them and the French are running some sort of EU political monopoly or something. They have no association with what happened all those years ago. Current Germany had nothing to do with the destruction caused by the Nazi regime. You say that it's fair that the Poles are paid for the damage caused, but is it fair that the German people, none of whom had any involvement with what happened, are punished for something done decades ago?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Vincenzo on September 13, 2017, 09:53:43 pm
Also note that any destruction is by now already way back when repaired probably during communistic times or by EU subsidies in more recent times. And the people that suffered are long dead. or dieing. it's insane to think a current living pole should get any money for the suffering his dead great grandpa did.. lol.

About Poland destruction actually..
Every step i take here in Poland I can see the glorious EU flag next to a board telling that this reconstruction project was sponsored by the EU.

Who you think builds all those highways in poland.. those trams, those repaired buildings.. those museums.. those sewer systems.. oh wait.. EU money.. who pays that EU money to Poland? Everyone, but mostly Germans.

I would say the Polish government are complete idiots.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 13, 2017, 09:58:36 pm
Also note that any destruction is by now already way back when repaired probably during communistic times or by EU subsidies in more recent times. And the people that suffered are long dead. or dieing. it's insane to think a current living pole should get any money for the suffering his dead great grandpa did.. lol.

About Poland destruction actually..
Every step i take here in Poland I can see the glorious EU flag next to a board telling that this reconstruction project was sponsored by the EU.

Who you think builds all those highways in poland.. those trams, those repaired buildings.. those museums.. those sewer systems.. oh wait.. EU money.. who pays that EU money to Poland? Everyone, but mostly Germans.

I would say the Polish government are complete idiots.
Unnecessary hyperbole is unnecessary
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 13, 2017, 10:19:51 pm
It's true though. When I visited Vince in Poland last year it become sorta a meme between us to point out European Union-signs - of which there are, seriously, a lot.

The PiS-government doesn't seriously want or expect the Germans to pay. Like Vince says, it's just a political ploy to draw attention away from uninteresting shit like healthcare, employment, democracy and human rights.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 13, 2017, 10:36:54 pm
Also note that any destruction is by now already way back when repaired probably during communistic times or by EU subsidies in more recent times. And the people that suffered are long dead. or dieing. it's insane to think a current living pole should get any money for the suffering his dead great grandpa did.. lol.

About Poland destruction actually..
Every step i take here in Poland I can see the glorious EU flag next to a board telling that this reconstruction project was sponsored by the EU.

Who you think builds all those highways in poland.. those trams, those repaired buildings.. those museums.. those sewer systems.. oh wait.. EU money.. who pays that EU money to Poland? Everyone, but mostly Germans.

I would say the Polish government are complete idiots.
Unnecessary hyperbole is unnecessary
This guy did GCSE English 👌
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 13, 2017, 10:37:41 pm
Also note that any destruction is by now already way back when repaired probably during communistic times or by EU subsidies in more recent times. And the people that suffered are long dead. or dieing. it's insane to think a current living pole should get any money for the suffering his dead great grandpa did.. lol.

About Poland destruction actually..
Every step i take here in Poland I can see the glorious EU flag next to a board telling that this reconstruction project was sponsored by the EU.

Who you think builds all those highways in poland.. those trams, those repaired buildings.. those museums.. those sewer systems.. oh wait.. EU money.. who pays that EU money to Poland? Everyone, but mostly Germans.

I would say the Polish government are complete idiots.
Unnecessary hyperbole is unnecessary
This guy did GCSE English 👌
the hell is GCSE
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 13, 2017, 10:39:55 pm
British qualification awarded in secondary school
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 13, 2017, 11:30:06 pm
British qualification awarded in secondary school
Oh. We have a literacy test in grade 10 in Canada (which, for a lot of questions, is literally just "can you read this"?).
If that was a dig at my vocabulary, I'll have you know my mom says I know lots of words!
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 13, 2017, 11:32:16 pm
British qualification awarded in secondary school
Oh. We have a literacy test in grade 10 in Canada (which, for a lot of questions, is literally just "can you read this"?).
If that was a dig at my vocabulary, I'll have you know my mom says I know lots of words!
Just a joke  ;D and if grade 10 is aged 16 in Canada then yes it's the same
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 14, 2017, 12:11:59 am
How do you think Hitler became leader of the Nazi party in the first place? He was famed for his Nationalistic speeches centred around the treaty of Versailles. Sure his popularity was waning before the hit of the great depression but he used this as a platform to gather support for the reversal of the treaty as he placed great emphasis on it's role in Germany's misfortunes. His entire foreign policy during his first years in power were focused upon the reversal of the treaty of Versailles, hence why many had sympathetic views towards his cause and supported him. Both had a great contribution and it's pretty fair to say that Hitler might not have come to power had the treaty not been so harsh.

No no no, Hitler's rise had everything to do with the depression, considerably more so than the ToV. This is going to be long, I'll try to keep it "brief" (as briefly stated as some of the most important history of modern Germany can be).



In the early days of the Weimar Republic, which had been created after the collapse of the monarchy, the new government had very little support - nobody liked it, with many politicians still holding allegiance to the Germany monarchy while most of the populace saw the experimental government as weak and pro-French. After the chaotic government (which was made up of several different parties fighting for control as a result of the disastrous proportional voting system of the Weimar) failed to pay reparations agreed upon in the treaty of Versailles, France invaded and occupied the Ruhr in 1923 in order to profit by selling its resources.

This was of course seen as an affront by the German voters, who saw the invasion as unnecessary act of aggression against an already beaten nation who believed they rightfully owned the Ruhr's resources. As a result, there was a large surge of nationalism in the polls, with the Nazi party gaining quite a lot of votes. Hitler then of course went on to attempt a a coup d'état against the Weimar, which of course failed and Hitler was imprisoned, though the large surge of nationalism among the court and jury got him off with a very lax sentence (though the party of NSDAP was successfully banned, preventing the party from growing while Hitler was imprisoned). By the time Hitler was released from prison in 1924, the nationalistic and extremist upsurge among voters had faded due to successful negotiations with France. Hitler got the party unbanned and became leader again in 1925, but had little success in the ensuing elections for government.

To make matters even worse for Hitler, the pragmatist and diplomatic wizard Gustav Stresemann brought out the Dawes Plan in 1924, which made paying reparations extremely more manageable for Germany, and reformed the Reichbank and created the Reichmark currency in order to counter the insane hyperinflation that was wreaking havoc among the middle and lower class (the main voter demographic of the Nazis). Stresemann then went on to serve as an extremely effective foreign minister for Germany and started to rebuild relations with France and Britain, but more importantly with the USA. From the mid 1920s support for the Nazis dropped steadily as Stresemann set Germany on the path to economic recovery with the help of the sympathetic USA who granted Germany gracious loans to manage the cost of reparations, and even invested in German business and tourism thanks to Stresemann's successful negotiations. Germany went on to sign the Kellogg-Briand Pact in August 1928, which increased foreign relations considerably (many nations still had PTSD from WW1 and were terrified of Germany rearming. Many nations such as France had purposely done little to aid Germany economically in order to prevent them from rearming. This pact put an end to most of this skepticism, with Germany renouncing the use of violence to resolve international conflicts).

The Kellogg-Briand Pact set the foundation for the Young Plan, which was successfully negotiated with American investment banks and the US government in 1929 and was implemented shortly after. The plan reduced German commitment to reparations and the USA increasingly held up Germany's economy. However, Stresemann conveniently died before the Depression, and the Young Plan was shortly lived. The USA began to pull all money out of Europe including that committed to the Young Plan, and also decided it wanted its money back from earlier investments into German industry and economic recovery. Germany of course did not have the money to repay the USA and defaulted on its loans, with the country plummeting yet again into chaos. Mass hunger and widespread suffering ensued (especially among the working class which was now very large due to the middle class rapidly shrinking). Needless to say Germany was now in an extremely dire economic and social situation, completely abandoned by everyone including the USA. As extreme times call for extreme leadership from the voters, NASDAP's popularity rose rapidly on wards and you know the rest. 

So yes, had the Great Depression never occurred the USA would probably have dragged Germany out of the gutter and Hitler & NSDAP would have faded into irrelevancy.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 14, 2017, 12:25:15 am
Yes Gordo we've all done GCSE history

The treaty of Versailles contributed greatly to Hitler's initial break into the political scene and shaped his foreign policy for his first few years of his dictatorship. That was his entire ruse when it came to appeasement right up until Czechoslovakia. No denying that. Germany was ruined by WW1 and the treaty of Versailles rubbed salt in the wounds.

I mean a whole lot of his criticism of the Weimar regime came from the idea that they had stabbed the german people in the back at Versailles, and many people felt that way in Germany. My point isn't that the Great Depression didn't contribute significantly to his rise to power, but that it wasn't the only factor, and what gained Hitler his initial support was discontent caused by the TOV. I'm talking much earlier in his timeline when the Nazis first became a large political power than when they took complete control.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 14, 2017, 12:40:34 am
Yes Gordo we've all done GCSE history

Evidently not, given the treaties' irrelevancy to Hitler's political maneuvers which allowed him to become chancellor.

The treaty of Versailles contributed greatly to Hitler's initial break into the political scene and shaped his foreign policy for his first few years of his dictatorship. That was his entire ruse when it came to appeasement right up until Czechoslovakia. No denying that. Germany was ruined by WW1 and the treaty of Versailles rubbed salt in the wounds.

I mean a whole lot of his criticism of the Weimar regime came from the idea that they had stabbed the german people in the back at Versailles, and many people felt that way in Germany. My point isn't that the Great Depression didn't contribute significantly to his rise to power, but that it wasn't the only factor, and what gained Hitler his initial support was discontent caused by the TOV. I'm talking much earlier in his timeline when the Nazis first became a large political power than when they took complete control.


The early party's popularity played little role in the reformed party's success and is completely irrelevant given support for the party was nigh non-existent in the mid-1920s.

And before you resort to speculating about Hitler's entrance into politics: odds are extremely good Hitler would have entered politics in the name of nationalism even if the ToV had never been written, based on what he wrote in Mein Kampf about his views during the war.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 14, 2017, 12:59:58 am
If you think the treaty is irrelevant to his political manoeuvres then I don't know what to say. He made speeches in the reichstag condemning the treaty. One of his main ideals was blaming the Jews for the loss of the war. His entire foreign policy for most of the 30s was centred around reversing its effects and clauses!

The Great Depression revived his party and gave them the entrance into government but let's not forget that Hitler did act against the consequences of the treaty throughout his pre war political career.We're not talking about what caused Hitler to rise to power in the end, but what caused the initial dissidence and unrest in Germany and the economic situation which arose from the clauses of said treaty due to its vengeful nature as oppose to the reconciliation that the US wanted. The point is that he TOV, and more specifically the reparations, led to a very vengeful German population. Had the US not aided the Germans then it is likely that Hitler's power would have continued to rise throughout the 20s rather than declining, hence my point that the Polish demand only creates divisions rather than justice.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: fruitocino on September 14, 2017, 01:13:27 am
It's true though. When I visited Vince in Poland last year it become sorta a meme between us to point out European Union-signs - of which there are, seriously, a lot.

The PiS-government doesn't seriously want or expect the Germans to pay. Like Vince says, it's just a political ploy to draw attention away from uninteresting shit like healthcare, employment, democracy and human rights.
It's pretty much the same thing the greek government did in 2015 (with a different background), empty shitposting. I do enjoy the memes though.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 14, 2017, 05:15:35 pm
Or the hate filled "muh third way" droolers
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 14, 2017, 05:27:31 pm
Mixed messages from Trump:

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/Ha3qznA.jpg)
[close]

I'm not going to draw any conclusions just yet.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 14, 2017, 06:25:58 pm
Yes. You're one of those people that moans about how the political system is a bourgeoisie conspiracy to protect the private property of the rich.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 14, 2017, 07:11:31 pm
Mixed messages from Trump:

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/Ha3qznA.jpg)
[close]

I'm not going to draw any conclusions just yet.
That tweet is from 2013 nigga. Politicians flip flop all the time, their only real interest in a liberal democracy is to preserve and expand bourgeoisie private property, which allows this class of people to control democracy in the first place.

It's still a bit weird how Trump would stick his neck out for the members of the Charlottesville rally one week, then post stuff like this the next.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 14, 2017, 07:12:49 pm
Mixed messages from Trump:

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/Ha3qznA.jpg)
[close]

I'm not going to draw any conclusions just yet.
That tweet is from 2013 nigga. Politicians flip flop all the time, their only real interest in a liberal democracy is to preserve and expand bourgeoisie private property, which allows this class of people to control democracy in the first place.

It's still a bit weird how Trump would stick his neck out for the members of the Charlottesville rally one week, then post stuff like this the next.
Welcome to Trump's twitter account, full of contradictions.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 14, 2017, 07:16:02 pm
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/09/04/report-jared-and-ivanka-support-extending-daca/

Lol, from one search. Knew it.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 14, 2017, 07:55:58 pm
Fraudbear are you a commie?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 14, 2017, 07:59:50 pm
Fraudbear are you a commie?
You just noticed this?
Jesus do people still think that communism works?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 14, 2017, 08:13:12 pm
Ah, constructive political discussion.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 14, 2017, 08:15:34 pm
fraudbear this isn't a meme thread
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 14, 2017, 08:25:58 pm
Half the replies here could qualify as memes
Yeah but yours are the worst because communism is shite
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 14, 2017, 09:27:26 pm
'socialism/communism works'

In other news they're now eating rabbits in Venezuela.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-41265474
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 14, 2017, 10:48:17 pm
But Socialism wasn't properly implemented Stephen :/
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on September 14, 2017, 11:06:03 pm
'socialism/communism works'

In other news they're now eating rabbits in Venezuela.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-41265474
rabbits are good
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on September 15, 2017, 01:47:46 am
Wait how on earth can you defend Trump saying that "politicians flip flop"? And just because the tweet is from 2013 doesn't mean he wasn't spouting the same pro-immigration bullshit during the electoral campaign. As with literally everything else he said, it was just for the votes.
The whole attraction of Trump was supposed to be that he specifically wasn't a politician, that he wouldn't flip flop and that he stood by what he said. Whoever the random woman is, I imagine she speaks for a lot of disappointed Trump voters who actually got conned into voting for him.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 15, 2017, 01:51:00 am
Jesus Christ fraudbear are you a socialist or a communist
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 15, 2017, 01:55:19 am
First off. Trump was never in politics like Obama or Clinton, so it should be expected when he takes office, he is bombarded with loads of inside information from everything spanning healthcare to the economy and military.  It is expected for him to change his views based upon the information he gains while in office, because before he was in office the guy had little knowledge about substantial topics. 

The whole Charlottesville thing in my mind was just stupid.  He's not a white supremacist and for the KKK when he has Jewish grandkids.  It was blown out of proportion by the media.  I am not defending him at all though, guy still hasn't fulfilled many promises to his loyal constituents.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 15, 2017, 01:57:02 am
Karth it's not like that kind of information is classified. If a person is expected to change their views upon taking office then surely that means what they were voted in based upon is simply wrong? Are you saying trump is wrong?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 15, 2017, 02:26:30 am
Karth it's not like that kind of information is classified. If a person is expected to change their views upon taking office then surely that means what they were voted in based upon is simply wrong? Are you saying trump is wrong?
Are you kidding? There's a lot the CBO reports along with info accessed with security clearances that is not made public.  I'm saying Trump adapted and changed his views based upon the information he had access to when he was in office, not for everything of course (mostly social issues).  He's the only President in modern day who has not had access to that sort of information, because again he's not a career politician like every recent President. 
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 15, 2017, 02:36:12 am
So genuine question Karth. What is it that every other politician has access to that Trump didn't? I would like to understand it in more detail.

And Fraudbear can you please explain to me your perfect society. I would like to understand how it would work and actually create a functioning economy.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 15, 2017, 02:41:53 am
'socialism/communism works'

In other news they're now eating rabbits in Venezuela.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-41265474
rabbits are good
The Latin American country who has an economy of a 70% in the private sector which operates under a market and has entered a crisis due to the global price of oil falling drastically and having no way to make up for it because it made zero efforts to industriaize in the entire century it has been a client state to Western powers...is a failure of Socialism.

Sasuga, Chilton-san!
this here is a meme
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 15, 2017, 02:43:09 am
So genuine question Karth. What is it that every other politician has access to that Trump didn't? I would like to understand it in more detail.

And Fraudbear can you please explain to me your perfect society. I would like to understand how it would work and actually create a functioning economy.
Trump never even had any security clearances prior to office, or access to Congressional Budget Office reports.  CBO has the top analysts who have no political agenda, and map out the consequences for any economic/financial decision on an upcoming bill, along with analytics on a variety of economic issues.  These are mostly not made available public, politicians have direct access to them.  The next big thing is everything else that comes with an SC, from nuclear weapons info to foreign affairs.  Literally probably thousands of hours of information.  Actually pretty sure there was a documentary on 60 minutes or somewhere that explains all this lol
Anyways, morale is, prior to obtaining office Trump was as normal as us, in regards to the access to government information and knowledge he had.  After gaining office, he has had exposure and continues to gain exposure to everything having to do with the government, and unlike other politicians who are familiar with this, he was not.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 15, 2017, 02:44:53 am
'socialism/communism works'

In other news they're now eating rabbits in Venezuela.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-41265474
rabbits are good
The Latin American country who has an economy of a 70% in the private sector which operates under a market and has entered a crisis due to the global price of oil falling drastically and having no way to make up for it because it made zero efforts to industriaize in the entire century it has been a client state to Western powers...is a failure of Socialism.

Sasuga, Chilton-san!

Oh please, they dabbled with socialism and paid for it via a historically high oil price. When things were going well all the usual leftie idiots had no problem pointing at Venezuela as an example of socialism working in practice. Now they're silent.
Venezuela may have a significant private sector compared to somewhere like Cuba but it also has, among other things, terrible property rights, low levels of business and financial freedom & a highly regulated labour market after 17 years of Chavism.

Also it's not that much of a market economy given it has extensive price and currency controls. In Venezuela the government literally tells supermarkets what price they're allowed to sell at. Firms are banned from having profit margins above 30%. You do realise Venezuela is dealing with mass inflation and shortages as a result of all that? But please, tell me how free market economics are to blame here. The only reason a lot of Venezuelans haven't already starved to death is because of free market capitalism operating via the black market.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 15, 2017, 02:10:22 pm
Another terror attack in London, though you've probably already heard about it by now.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/09/15/british-police-respond-to-reports-explosion-at-london-subway-station.html

(Had to change the link because the BBC are withholding information, yet again.)

Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on September 15, 2017, 05:10:01 pm
Why dedicate yourself to one political ideology? When life constantly demands a balance of forces and opinions. There must be middle ground yet to be discovered/created so why claim to support these ideas that are so primitive instead of looking for something new and better.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 15, 2017, 05:27:31 pm
Why dedicate yourself to one political ideology? When life constantly demands a balance of forces and opinions. There must be middle ground yet to be discovered/created so why claim to support these ideas that are so primitive instead of looking for something new and better.
This is rich coming from you
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on September 15, 2017, 05:31:48 pm
Why dedicate yourself to one political ideology? When life constantly demands a balance of forces and opinions. There must be middle ground yet to be discovered/created so why claim to support these ideas that are so primitive instead of looking for something new and better.
This is rich coming from you

Its a legitimate question that i hope everyone asks themselves.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 15, 2017, 05:37:18 pm
lol sanders pushing for single payer health when Trump is in power
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 15, 2017, 09:29:40 pm
Yeah, because in normal democracies everybody in the opposition just stops working until next election day.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 15, 2017, 10:02:01 pm
Yeah, because in normal democracies everybody in the opposition just stops working until next election day.
He's not working though, his own state passed the single payer system then they realized they didn't have money to pay for it so it failed lmao
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 15, 2017, 10:37:38 pm
In other news the UK threat level has been raised to Part & Parcel™ yet again.


I should probably have posted that in UK politics but whatever.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 17, 2017, 12:15:11 pm
Please continue discussing recent events, not historical ideologies.

'Discussions' on political theories always end up with someone defending one totalitarian shit regime that killed millions or the other. Sadly for those people, this forum isn't called '/pol' or '/shitideas'. You are free to be as much a dipshit as you want in your own personal life, but this forum is not and will never be a place for you to discuss how much you love being a dipshit.

Discuss recent politics, or discuss ideology within the modern context. Please do not think you can convince me how wrong I am in taking this discussion, you know very well that's a lost cause. To give everybody time to reflect on that, I'll lock this thread for a day.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on September 19, 2017, 10:13:42 pm
http://ijr.com/the-declaration/2017/09/977913-watch-reaction-un-members-trump-savages-socialism-communism-un-wow/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Shared&utm_campaign=ods&utm_term=DW (http://ijr.com/the-declaration/2017/09/977913-watch-reaction-un-members-trump-savages-socialism-communism-un-wow/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Shared&utm_campaign=ods&utm_term=DW)
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 19, 2017, 10:21:16 pm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 20, 2017, 12:00:44 am
Please continue discussing recent events, not historical ideologies.

'Discussions' on political theories always end up with someone defending one totalitarian shit regime that killed millions or the other. Sadly for those people, this forum isn't called '/pol' or '/shitideas'. You are free to be as much a dipshit as you want in your own personal life, but this forum is not and will never be a place for you to discuss how much you love being a dipshit.

Discuss recent politics, or discuss ideology within the modern context. Please do not think you can convince me how wrong I am in taking this discussion, you know very well that's a lost cause. To give everybody time to reflect on that, I'll lock this thread for a day.

Lol, the day after Duuring posts that Trump kicks off a storm in the UN by talking about the historical failure of socialism.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 20, 2017, 04:51:38 pm
Trump = Duuring confirmed  :o
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 20, 2017, 04:58:12 pm
Aye, our glorious US senate just approved an $80 billion increase in military spending, Trump only asked for $47B.  Oh and only 8 out of 100 senators voted against  ;D
We preparing to take over all you scum
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 20, 2017, 05:16:04 pm
Aye, our glorious US senate just approved an $80 billion increase in military spending, Trump only asked for $47B.  Oh and only 8 out of 100 senators voted against  ;D
We preparing to take over all you scum
Why on earth does the USA need to spend more on defence?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on September 20, 2017, 05:34:20 pm
Aye, our glorious US senate just approved an $80 billion increase in military spending, Trump only asked for $47B.  Oh and only 8 out of 100 senators voted against  ;D
We preparing to take over all you scum
Why on earth does the USA need to spend more on defence?
in the words of all mighty karth, we preparing to take over you scum
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 20, 2017, 05:50:46 pm
I suppose oil is becoming more valuable. Gotta find those middle eastern countries and take it all before anyone else does ya know
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 20, 2017, 06:36:54 pm
Why on earth does the USA need to spend more on defence?

All the money is going to R&D of pacifist solutions to future conflict, of course.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 20, 2017, 06:44:03 pm
The US may be $20 trillion in debt and already has the largest military budget of any nation, but there's always room for more military spending. Sounds like the USSR in the 1980s.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on September 20, 2017, 06:48:10 pm
The US may be $20 trillion in debt and already has the largest military budget of any nation, but there's always room for more military spending. Sounds like the USSR in the 1980s.

Ten years until collapse then  :o
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 20, 2017, 06:51:04 pm
It's okay guys they can just cut the budget of the environmental department
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 20, 2017, 08:31:23 pm
It's okay guys they can just cut the budget of the environmental department
Easily, if 94 percent of it is non-essential then it's perfect
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 20, 2017, 10:53:08 pm
It's okay guys they can just cut the budget of the environmental department

*record scratch*

You don't actually still believe in climate change, do you...?
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 20, 2017, 10:56:49 pm
It's okay guys they can just cut the budget of the environmental department

*record scratch*

You don't actually still believe in climate change, do you...?
I think what you mean is he still believes that humans are causing catastrophic and unnatural climate change, not just climate change in general
the climate does change
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 20, 2017, 11:04:27 pm
I think what you mean is he still believes that humans are causing catastrophic and unnatural climate change, not just climate change in general
the climate does change

Loaded language isn't a very good substitute for logic, sorry.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 20, 2017, 11:07:18 pm
Guys you know the Earth is flat.


It is known.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 20, 2017, 11:08:55 pm
Guys you know the Earth is flat.


It is known.
This is the equivalent of saying that the climate doesn't change
What climate change skeptics are skeptics of, however, is not the changing of the climate
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 20, 2017, 11:11:02 pm
Guys you know the Earth is flat.


It is known.

Yes I think I can
Quite agree with this
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 20, 2017, 11:13:11 pm
You know America is the most peaceful country in the world.

It is known.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on September 21, 2017, 02:12:25 am
too bad Trump is just an Israhell shill
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Nero_ on September 21, 2017, 11:40:06 am
evola was right
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 21, 2017, 03:16:35 pm
To keep things simple, this thread will be the one for all discussion related to politics.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 21, 2017, 04:33:16 pm
So let's talk about communism then boys
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on September 21, 2017, 04:34:46 pm
So let's talk about communism then boys
Communism did nothing wrong.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 21, 2017, 04:35:25 pm
So let's talk about communism then boys

That may be difficult given its only supporter is currently muted at 90%
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 21, 2017, 04:49:39 pm
So let's talk about communism then boys
Communism did nothing wrong.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Nero_ on September 21, 2017, 04:50:16 pm
communism works perfectly fine
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on September 21, 2017, 05:30:27 pm
It's okay guys they can just cut the budget of the environmental department

He's pretty much planning to cut every department that is usefull for the average citizen to increase military spending instead.
(Oh yeah and the fucking wall but I doubt the wall will ever pass in congress.)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 22, 2017, 04:32:44 pm
Lol it doesn't matter democrat or republican or trump, military spending will always increase because freedom!  And should probably get China to adhere to the same climate change accords in the meantime.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 22, 2017, 04:50:33 pm
If freedom is the goal, there are much better ways to spend that money.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 22, 2017, 05:12:56 pm
If freedom is the goal, there are much better ways to spend that money.
Economically I'm not saying it's great, but it provides jobs and more work for thousands of engineers, among other roles.  $800 billion or whatever total for the military is huge, but the amount of jobs and work that money provides is also enormous.  The rest $3 trillion spending goes to social security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc... 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 22, 2017, 05:45:28 pm
NASA's budget is only $18 billion a year. Kinda depressing, but then again a lot of military spending goes on R&D either directly or indirectly.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on September 22, 2017, 06:27:15 pm
Sure but if you would spend that 800 billion somewhere else, you could still create jobs and actually achieve something better than new tools of destruction.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on September 22, 2017, 06:44:40 pm
Sure but if you would spend that 800 billion somewhere else, you could still create jobs and actually achieve something better than new tools of destruction.
but then who would save us from those darn Russians
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 22, 2017, 07:11:02 pm
Sure but if you would spend that 800 billion somewhere else, you could still create jobs and actually achieve something better than new tools of destruction.
Like what?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 22, 2017, 08:26:32 pm
Sure but if you would spend that 800 billion somewhere else, you could still create jobs and actually achieve something better than new tools of destruction.
Like what?

The best ferry service in the Mediterranean
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 22, 2017, 08:33:16 pm
Like maybe making sure all of your citizens are given proper healthcare. Not fucking the environment could be a priority too.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 22, 2017, 08:37:17 pm
Like maybe making sure all of your citizens are given proper healthcare. Not fucking the environment could be a priority too.
So you want to take away thousands of jobs and GDP  to instead use that money to increase spending on already trillion dollar programs? Nice
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 22, 2017, 08:38:52 pm
Like maybe making sure all of your citizens are given proper healthcare. Not fucking the environment could be a priority too.
So you want to take away thousands of jobs and GDP  to instead use that money to increase spending on already trillion dollar programs? Nice
Did I say that? Just it's clear that America chooses to increase its budget in a department that doesn't need extra funding and cut funding for areas that do need it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on September 23, 2017, 09:42:36 pm
Like maybe making sure all of your citizens are given proper healthcare. Not fucking the environment could be a priority too.
So you want to take away thousands of jobs and GDP  to instead use that money to increase spending on already trillion dollar programs? Nice
Did I say that? Just it's clear that America chooses to increase its budget in a department that doesn't need extra funding and cut funding for areas that do need it.

Exactly.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 24, 2017, 03:53:40 pm
In the UK Labour are having their annual party conference for the next few days. Looks to be more exciting than in previous years:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/bbc-political-editor-laura-kuenssberg-to-be-accompanied-by-security-guards-at-labour-party-a3642221.html

I'm looking forward to Monday's lecture on whether Artificial Intelligence is sexist.
Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJNe1X1WsAAWqFN.jpg:large)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on September 24, 2017, 05:51:54 pm
Merkel saying she'll refuse to work with AfD which isn't too surprising. We'll see how it turns out for her but I can say that alienating a populist movement usually doesn't work too well.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on September 24, 2017, 06:49:31 pm
You say that but it worked pretty well for mainstream parties in the UK. UKIP just died down, although that could be attributed to Farage jumping ship, then flip flopping and then associating with Trump, plus the leadership challenges etc.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 24, 2017, 07:00:15 pm
How good are German exit polls? They suggest that a) Merkel's lost a quarter of her vote since 2013 but remains as Chancellor, b) SPD at 20% which is worst result for them in the history of modern Germany, and c) AfD at 13.5% making them third largest party and almost certainly the official opposition.

Wow-terrible night for Schultz and Merkel. Former should probably resign by tomorrow, later will have to put forward a succession plan earlier than thought. Only possible coalition is continuation of CDU/SPD. If the exit polls are right of course....
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ted on September 24, 2017, 07:19:33 pm
Welcome to Weimar: Where the parliament is going to paralyze itself. Bundesrepublik Deutschland in 2017.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 24, 2017, 07:40:20 pm
c) AfD at 13.5% making them third largest party and almost certainly the official opposition.

There is no official opposition in Germany, and even if there was, the SPD is about 7% bigger than the AfD. On what do you base this certainty?

Quote
. Only possible coalition is continuation of CDU/SPD. If the exit polls are right of course....

SPD has already stated it will not continue the 'Grand Coalition' and wishes to go into opposition. The most likely coalition is the so-called Jamaican model: CDU/CSU, the Greens and the Free Democrats.

Welcome to Weimar: Where the parliament is going to paralyze itself. Bundesrepublik Deutschland in 2017.

Laughs in Dutch
(https://www.tweedekamer.nl/sites/default/files/styles/content_image/public/atoms/images/zetelverdeling_5_april_2017_klein_0.jpg?itok=h0apLN9M)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 24, 2017, 08:04:37 pm
Is there not? Been reading news reports that say there is, and Euractiv is usually pretty good.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/elections/news/germanys-race-for-third-place/

Green grassroots are strongly against a coalition with Merkel and the FDP, and I read somewhere any deal would have to go before their members. No chance of passing. Far more likely SPD will change their minds. For Schultz it's either that or resign as I can't see how else he could stay on in his position. I guess there might be some kind of confidence and supply arrangement rather than an outright coalition.





Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 24, 2017, 08:21:52 pm
The budget committee is chaired by the biggest opposition party. That's it. Die Linke held that position the past session.

Yeah, either SPD-CDU or CDU-FDP-Grüne. AfD doesn't have enough seats to form a coalition with CDU/CSU and it would be sorta direct betrayel of their anti-Merkel platform anyway.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on September 24, 2017, 08:45:19 pm
Lol it doesn't matter democrat or republican or trump, military spending will always increase because freedom!

It's the nature of all government entities, rather a regime democratic or despotic, to ever increase its power and spending. It's especially easy to do this when the mass electorate are devout practitioners of the "make our children pay for it after we've gone" doctrine.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 24, 2017, 10:30:38 pm
If freedom is the goal, there are much better ways to spend that money.
Economically I'm not saying it's great, but it provides jobs and more work for thousands of engineers, among other roles.  $800 billion or whatever total for the military is huge, but the amount of jobs and work that money provides is also enormous. 
It has been established that militairy spending is probably the shittiest investment a state can do in terms of economy. It does create jobs, but not even close as much as other (government) departments would, like medical, education or infrastructure. (Source: my academy reading material: Peace and Conflict Stues, chapter 1)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 24, 2017, 11:44:33 pm
Medical is complicated and I won't deny that, but U.S education investment provides useless jobs, without any empirical improvement, and infrastructure jobs are mostly temporary
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 24, 2017, 11:49:25 pm
Medical is complicated and I won't deny that, but U.S education investment provides useless jobs, without any empirical improvement, and infrastructure jobs are mostly temporary

What.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 25, 2017, 12:02:51 am
education is useless. You heard it here first.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 25, 2017, 12:16:47 am
Infrastructure policy making here is always mostly at a state level. Like if the government issued the state of Vermont $5B to build new roads/bridges, maybe the governor of that state is conservative and won't spend a dime for 5-10 years, it just depends.  This is federal spending, and they spend trillions as it is on healthcare programs.  They already did a study, every $1b spent on military equates to around 11,000 jobs, so this $80B increase will provide hundreds of thousands of jobs in a skilled sector which relies on military contracts.

Education again, the impact of spending would have to be constituted at a local/state level.  It's already a failure, when there are public schools which rely on a large part of federal money, which can be defined by average test scores and teacher compensation, it's a huge mess as it is

There's a good example of a Chicago district where teachers were 'faking' or just giving students A's so they could retain some federal money
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 25, 2017, 12:18:36 am
Maybe that's why America should reform it's fucked up systems. It's funny how everyone else manages to provide universal healthcare but it's too expensive for the self proclaimed greatest country on Earth.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 25, 2017, 12:25:33 am
It's abundantly clear that education investments doesn't give results in the US.

Maybe that's why America should reform it's fucked up systems. It's funny how everyone else manages to provide universal healthcare but it's too expensive for the self proclaimed greatest country on Earth.

Ah, I'd like to hear how you'd reform the US healthcare industry into a socialized system.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 25, 2017, 12:27:53 am
It's abundantly clear that education investments doesn't give results in the US.

Maybe that's why America should reform it's fucked up systems. It's funny how everyone else manages to provide universal healthcare but it's too expensive for the self proclaimed greatest country on Earth.

Ah, I'd like to hear how you'd reform the US healthcare industry into a socialized system.
I don't claim to have an answer but you can't deny it isn't broken when you spend much more per capita than any other country. If you want things to be cheaper then fix them instead of just blindly following the same path which everybody can clearly doesn't work.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 25, 2017, 12:29:53 am
I agree for sure education needs to be heavily reformed.  Healthcare... look at it this way, it costs $3 trillion in spending to keep up current Medicare and Medicaid programs.  Universal healthcare, at least from when economists used sanders campaign, would cost $2.8trillion a year.  To put that into perspective, in 2016 the CBO said the fed government took it $3.3 trillion in revenue.  That's just revenue, not talking about the obvious debt pool we are in, universal healthcare would likely put us in a massive recession for several years, with a small likelihood of getting better without a plan for the government to make money. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 25, 2017, 12:31:42 am
They already did a study, every $1b spent on military equates to around 11,000 jobs, so this $80B increase will provide hundreds of thousands of jobs in a skilled sector which relies on military contracts.

Rubbish. That money comes from taxation or borrowing (and the latter gets paid back by taxation anyway). You're taking money out of people's pockets in order to pay for ships and missiles. If you didn't take it out their pockets they'd spend it themselves in ways that would create just as many jobs if not more (since it's inefficient to tax and spend given you need to pay the bureaucrats to administrate it). 

If the aim is to create jobs then increasing government spending makes no sense unless you're in a recession, and even then you always borrow the money rather than increase taxes. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 25, 2017, 12:35:22 am
In the UK people pay national insurance. It gives the government funds to allow them to pay for the NHS. I'm not sure if a similar system would work in the US but it would be better to put the 80 or so billion to reform to create a better society for your citizens rather than increasing funding in a department that it isn't essential to.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 25, 2017, 12:36:08 am
They already did a study, every $1b spent on military equates to around 11,000 jobs, so this $80B increase will provide hundreds of thousands of jobs in a skilled sector which relies on military contracts.

Rubbish. That money comes from taxation or borrowing (and the latter gets paid back by taxation anyway). You're taking money out of people's pockets in order to pay for ships and missiles. If you didn't take it out their pockets they'd spend it themselves in ways that would create just as many jobs if not more (since it's inefficient to tax and spend given you need to pay the bureaucrats to administrate it). 

If the aim is to create jobs then increasing government spending makes no sense unless you're in a recession, and even then you always borrow the money rather than increase taxes. 
http://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/economic/economy/employment
That's my source, analyze it yourself, I just had it saved from a paper I had to do last year
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 25, 2017, 12:48:57 am
They already did a study, every $1b spent on military equates to around 11,000 jobs, so this $80B increase will provide hundreds of thousands of jobs in a skilled sector which relies on military contracts.

Rubbish. That money comes from taxation or borrowing (and the latter gets paid back by taxation anyway). You're taking money out of people's pockets in order to pay for ships and missiles. If you didn't take it out their pockets they'd spend it themselves in ways that would create just as many jobs if not more (since it's inefficient to tax and spend given you need to pay the bureaucrats to administrate it). 

If the aim is to create jobs then increasing government spending makes no sense unless you're in a recession, and even then you always borrow the money rather than increase taxes. 
http://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/economic/economy/employment
That's my source, analyze it yourself, I just had it saved from a paper I had to do last year

It literally shows tax cuts create more jobs than military spending...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 25, 2017, 12:58:19 am
As well as education , healthcare and clean energy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 25, 2017, 01:51:18 am
As well as education , healthcare and clean energy.
lol this is so wrong
case study: ontario
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on September 25, 2017, 01:58:25 am
We should really just use this military of ours and make some tributary states and client states. Would pay off in the long run.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 25, 2017, 01:59:56 am
As well as education , healthcare and clean energy.
lol this is so wrong
case study: ontario
Karth's source says otherwise
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 25, 2017, 02:04:40 am
As well as education , healthcare and clean energy.
lol this is so wrong
case study: ontario
Karth's source says otherwise
Yeah, my bad, that's true, but the important difference between healthcare/education and green energy is investment into the former two are a government sponsored commodity, while green energy is subsidy masquerading as industry. Green energy doesn't make money without government funding

Was off topic sorry
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 25, 2017, 02:07:56 am
God forgives you
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 25, 2017, 02:45:06 am
Well it is just *one* study so don't take it as factual. There are several million studies published every year, many of which contradict one another. That particular one was also highly USA centric. In countries with more humane healthcare systems I don't think you'd see the same kind of gains from spending more on healthcare.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 25, 2017, 10:10:21 am
Frauke Petry just announced she'll enter the Bundestag as an independent. Interesting development.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on September 25, 2017, 11:53:42 am
Frauke Petry just announced she'll enter the Bundestag as an independent. Interesting development.
What difference does that make? She hold the same political views, right?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Windflower on September 25, 2017, 05:55:00 pm
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fouroverfour.jukely.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2F20170726_225321_2506_1004325-300x192.png&hash=589456a8ce49be4e1f799ddcf60389f2aab713c4)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 25, 2017, 05:59:33 pm
Frauke Petry just announced she'll enter the Bundestag as an independent. Interesting development.
What difference does that make? She hold the same political views, right?

If she did, she'd have stayed in the faction.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on September 25, 2017, 06:09:38 pm
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fouroverfour.jukely.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2F20170726_225321_2506_1004325-300x192.png&hash=589456a8ce49be4e1f799ddcf60389f2aab713c4)
sad thing is he might actually win and he would be my senator
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on September 25, 2017, 11:34:46 pm
Frauke Petry just announced she'll enter the Bundestag as an independent. Interesting development.
What difference does that make? She hold the same political views, right?

If she did, she'd have stayed in the faction.
So you're saying she got elected first and then after she got elected she revealed her true political views isn't that illegal or something?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 25, 2017, 11:46:08 pm
Frauke Petry just announced she'll enter the Bundestag as an independent. Interesting development.
What difference does that make? She hold the same political views, right?

If she did, she'd have stayed in the faction.
So you're saying she got elected first and then after she got elected she revealed her true political views isn't that illegal or something?
don't you vote for the candidate rather than the party?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 25, 2017, 11:52:49 pm
Frauke Petry just announced she'll enter the Bundestag as an independent. Interesting development.
What difference does that make? She hold the same political views, right?

If she did, she'd have stayed in the faction.
So you're saying she got elected first and then after she got elected she revealed her true political views isn't that illegal or something?

Why would it be? Merkel got away with it, lol.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on September 26, 2017, 12:07:00 am
Iraqi Kurdistan is holding a referendum for independence in the middle of a war what a meme.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 26, 2017, 12:08:32 am
Iraqi Kurdistan is holding a referendum for independence in the middle of a war what a meme.
Legally?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on September 26, 2017, 12:11:47 am
 Iraq have orderd the referendum suspended but it's gone ahead anyways.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 26, 2017, 12:13:57 am
Damn that sucks. More unrest as soon as they're about to drive ISIS out of the country.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Windflower on September 26, 2017, 12:53:59 am
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fouroverfour.jukely.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2F20170726_225321_2506_1004325-300x192.png&hash=589456a8ce49be4e1f799ddcf60389f2aab713c4)
sad thing is he might actually win and he would be my senator
He holds more votes than any other Republican combined in Michigan, right? lmao
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on September 26, 2017, 05:34:32 am
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fouroverfour.jukely.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2F20170726_225321_2506_1004325-300x192.png&hash=589456a8ce49be4e1f799ddcf60389f2aab713c4)
sad thing is he might actually win and he would be my senator
He holds more votes than any other Republican combined in Michigan, right? lmao

"Where men are forbidden to honour a king, they honor millionaires, athletes, or film stars instead; even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison."
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: fruitocino on September 26, 2017, 01:00:41 pm
Frauke Petry just announced she'll enter the Bundestag as an independent. Interesting development.
What difference does that make? She hold the same political views, right?

If she did, she'd have stayed in the faction.
So you're saying she got elected first and then after she got elected she revealed her true political views isn't that illegal or something?
don't you vote for the candidate rather than the party?
You do vote for the party. More specifically you vote for seats in parliament for that party; the party with the most seats provides the chancellor (their candidate) for the goverment.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 26, 2017, 01:13:16 pm
Only she actually won a seat in a constituency. Not that it matters, because MP's are free to leave factions.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 26, 2017, 02:31:23 pm
"Where men are forbidden to honour a king, they honor millionaires, athletes, or film stars instead; even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison."

Quite right. It's a great shame that Lewis was robbed of his CBE honours.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 26, 2017, 08:44:49 pm
Dunno where to put this but it's kinda interesting:
(https://i.gyazo.com/ed47cb1babcf52247c6f62086103a084.png)
http://jenniferdoleac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DNA_Denmark.pdf

Suggests that traditional crime fighting strategies revolving around deterrence are far better than the progressive 'understand the criminal's point of view' approach. Raises lots of questions about storage of DNA however...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on September 26, 2017, 09:01:35 pm
Apparently the U.S. flew some bombers over the N.K. East coast and the Koreans either didn't notice them or backed off of their claims to shoot down U.S. bombers.

To me I'm simply worried about a false flag attack to start a war, similar to how Vietnam was started off the Gulf of Tonkin 'incident.' I'd hate to get into a war with China because of their defensive pact with N.K.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 26, 2017, 09:44:57 pm
Yeah, China is exactly never going to war with the USA over North Korea. More likely they'll invade North Korea themselves.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on September 26, 2017, 09:55:03 pm
China won't be involved, in all reality it will be NK fucking up and fighting a war on their own.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 26, 2017, 09:55:25 pm
Yeah, China is exactly never going to war with the USA over North Korea. More likely they'll invade North Korea themselves.
Hopefully
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 26, 2017, 10:28:32 pm
China has 250,000 men stationed in Dongbei so it'd be easy to invade at short notice (that's probably a big reason why those troops are there in the first place). Whatever happens Beijing isn't going to give up the strategic depth that North Korea provides. Also obvious however that the Chinese increasingly see NK as unsustainable on its current path and want Pyongyang to carry out Deng Xiaoping style reforms, hence the planned coup for Jong-Un to make way for his older brother.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on September 26, 2017, 10:34:44 pm
A war between the United States and the People's Republic of China isn't likely to escalate beyond some minor, localized skirmishes over North Korea; the United States loses out on those cheap, slave labor consumer goods and the Chinese lose massive amounts of cash for those goods. The PRC would probably pretty excitedly work out a deal where they get to change the North Korean regime to something of their liking that is less volatile.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on September 26, 2017, 11:02:30 pm
A war between the United States and the People's Republic of China isn't likely to escalate beyond some minor, localized skirmishes over North Korea; the United States loses out on those cheap, slave labor consumer goods and the Chinese lose massive amounts of cash for those goods. The PRC would probably pretty excitedly work out a deal where they get to change the North Korean regime to something of their liking that is less volatile.
It definitely seems to work that way but China also seems to be contempt with just sitting on the sideline. They seem to be extremely patient and only playing their hand when absolutely forced to. I'd imagine they don't want to risk conflict with the U.S. seeing as how they're still expanding their pacific holdings and exerting influence on their neighbors but as you all have pointed out, that N.K. buffer is something China will not let dissolve. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on September 26, 2017, 11:20:55 pm
I think losing the North Korean buffer isn't something they are necessarily completely stalwart on anymore. With Russia no longer as likely an ally (keep in mind that these days, both Russia and the PRC have troop buildup on their shared border), defending the Korean peninsula no longer possesses the prior ability of a natural bottleneck. Additionally, the PRC may wish to give a little ground to the United States for some extra leniency dealing with the land disputes with India.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dazzer on September 26, 2017, 11:24:56 pm
I think losing the North Korean buffer isn't something they are necessarily completely stalwart on anymore. With Russia no longer as likely an ally (keep in mind that these days, both Russia and the PRC have troop buildup on their shared border), defending the Korean peninsula no longer possesses the prior ability of a natural bottleneck. Additionally, the PRC may wish to give a little ground to the United States for some extra leniency dealing with the land disputes with India.
congrats on your title
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 26, 2017, 11:33:24 pm
If i'm China, I'm trading North Korea for an ease of Trump's rhetoric on China economically.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 27, 2017, 12:24:58 am
Beijing won't give up on NK, it's a foreign policy objective to maintain that buffer and has been since the Korean War. Also trading NK for economic easing would be a major win for Washington and a loss of face for the Chinese. Plus within the Chinese Communist Party itself there's great affection for NK, especially among the old guard.

Also Russia and PRC have never been closer-they recently conducted joint military exercises close to the Korean border!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 27, 2017, 10:54:38 am
Yeah, they won't give up on it - so they'll storm in and put in place a new, more China-dependent regime. That's much cheaper then going to war with the USA over a shitty bufferzone.

Frauke Petry wants to start her own faction in the Bundestag named 'Die blauen', which might mean more AfD-MP's will break away.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on September 27, 2017, 01:16:24 pm
That is not confirmed yet is it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on September 28, 2017, 09:04:35 am
Yeah, they won't give up on it - so they'll storm in and put in place a new, more China-dependent regime. That's much cheaper then going to war with the USA over a shitty bufferzone.

Frauke Petry wants to start her own faction in the Bundestag named 'Die blauen', which might mean more AfD-MP's will break away.

Great work AfD what a joke of a party.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on September 28, 2017, 05:57:14 pm
A ‘joke’ that won a massive section in German Parliament in an extremely short time span in a country that can’t go 5 minutes without blaming itself for the world wars. Either way it’s too late; Germany is lost as well as most of mainland Europe.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 28, 2017, 06:20:19 pm
So did UKIP who are now irrelevant. Right wing parties gain power in times of mass hysteria and lose it when it dies down.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 28, 2017, 06:49:16 pm
So did UKIP who are now irrelevant. Right wing parties gain power in times of mass hysteria and lose it when it dies down.

An irrelevant and incorrect statement given that:

1) The United Kingdom isn't riddled with (too much) war guilt unlike Germany
2) UKIP were never a real threat to the Tories or Labour even while Farage was leader
3) UKIP's sole mission was getting the UK out of the EU, hence they've fallen apart now that their "mission" is a success
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 28, 2017, 06:53:47 pm
Isn't irrelevant at all. Whatever their goal they took advantage of the perceived issue of the time. Weather that be the EU or war guilt it's all the same. When people are worried right wing parties step in, and then when the issue subsides or is dealt with in some way, they fade way. My point is that the afd probably won't ever become a permanent major player in German politics and they'll never get into government.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 28, 2017, 07:30:16 pm
You'd have been correct had you stated that extreme circumstances result in extreme parties gaining more voters - that's a given. Also, I think it's well established that AfD is a far-right party, hence the infighting within the party as a result of some of their MPs holding more moderate and thus conflicting view points.

My point is that the afd probably won't ever become a permanent major player in German politics and they'll never get into government.

I speculate it'll be quite the contrary: the situation will only get worse as more economic migrants come into Germany, resulting in even more social strife on top of that already caused by the poor integration of migrants from 2015 on wards.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 28, 2017, 07:49:12 pm
I'm still correct either way. My statement isn't wrong. I didn't state that the afd weren't far right so I don't know what about my post that you're taking issue with.

There's no room for extremes in modern politics. The furthest you'll ever get is someone like Jeremy Corbyn who isn't nearly as far left as the afd are far right. I doubt they'll take hold.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 28, 2017, 08:14:45 pm
I'm still correct either way. My statement isn't wrong. I didn't state that the afd weren't far right so I don't know what about my post that you're taking issue with.

There's no room for extremes in modern politics. The furthest you'll ever get is someone like Jeremy Corbyn who isn't nearly as far left as the afd are far right. I doubt they'll take hold.
Like you can measure numerically how extreme someone is.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 28, 2017, 08:26:11 pm
There's no room for extremes in modern politics. The furthest you'll ever get is someone like Jeremy Corbyn who isn't nearly as far left as the afd are far right. I doubt they'll take hold.

The political climate in the UK is very different to that of Germany. We might only go so far as Comrade Corbyn over here, but there's plenty of room for AfD in Germany (t. the election results, lol).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 28, 2017, 08:30:38 pm
No Theodin but you can use your brain.

I'm just talking about the general trend. Sure they became a big part of german politics but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: fruitocino on September 28, 2017, 09:06:54 pm
I speculate it'll be quite the contrary: the situation will only get worse as more economic migrants come into Germany, resulting in even more social strife on top of that already caused by the poor integration of migrants from 2015 on wards.
I don't think the Afd will be able to capitalise on the refugee situation in the next election as much as they did this year. Like the financial crisis of 2008 it will eventually settle down as the years go by. That being said, I hope we're gonna see a new coalition because another CDU/SPD term wouldn't do both parties any good.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 28, 2017, 10:47:08 pm
No Theodin but you can use your brain.

I'm just talking about the general trend. Sure they became a big part of german politics but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Our brains are very biased tho
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 28, 2017, 10:50:31 pm
No Theodin but you can use your brain.

I'm just talking about the general trend. Sure they became a big part of german politics but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Our brains are very biased tho
I'm not speaking from a biased position. It's the truth. Extreme parties flourish in times of fear and then they die out in time.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 28, 2017, 10:55:54 pm
They also dissappear because other parties take over their salient political points. AfD will have an effect on German politics long after they're gone.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on September 29, 2017, 05:42:20 am
A ‘joke’ that won a massive section in German Parliament in an extremely short time span in a country that can’t go 5 minutes without blaming itself for the world wars. Either way it’s too late; Germany is lost as well as most of mainland Europe.

The party organization is a joke whom couldn't even manage to keep the party togheter for a day after the election.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 29, 2017, 06:06:57 pm
Just because a party has defections doesn't mean the party is badly organized. One defection out of 94 members also isn't exactly a party not keeping together, especially if that defection comes from a member that lost her bid for power. If the party really was falling apart, you would have seen full-fledged splits already, long before the election. The AfD has a larger share of the vote then the Greens (Exists since 1980), The Left (2007) or FDP (1948) ever received.

I won't surprise anyone when I say I strongly oppose the platform of the AfD and seriously question some of their statements and statements of their (elected) members. But to simply ignore it on the basis of bad results (Outwinning every other third party in Germany's modern history), bad organization (One defection out of 94 members because of a leader dispute) or because they probably won't be able to achieve much in their opposition role (ignoring the fact that parties can and do influence eachother and the politics of their country without ever holding office) is to deny facts. Worse, it will only create more resentment from AfD-voters, a majority of whom state they did not vote because of the AfD platform but as a way to protest and influence Merkel. These are voters that gladly will vote CDU again after it re-aligns to a more conservative political positioning.

But don't forget, another large group of protest voters are from Die Linke, which used to be THE party of the anti-Wessie-esthablishment. In fact, in percentage, die Linke lost far more votes to the Afd (about 10%) then the CDU (5%). While the CDU will work to regain disappointed conservative voters from the west, Die Linke will do the same in the east. Both will become more socially conservative, tougher on immigration and more nationalist in nature.

So will the AfD see a decline in votes in 2021? Yes, probably, because the CDU/CSU, and in fact, the whole of German politics, will have re-aligned to appeal to those voters. The CDU cannot move to the crowded German left, so what else could be their strategy? Add to that the fact that Merkel will probably be replaced by a new face for that election. My money is on a candidate who will stay just clear of openly criticizing Merkel but never miss an opportunity to express his or her regret for the mistakes made 'by the government' in that period. Besides, during the next election, the AfD will have to either find a really good reason to campaign with continued 'principled opposition' or change its platform to include the possibility of entering the government - which means working with their political rival, the CDU and letting go of their strong anti-esthablishment views.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 29, 2017, 06:16:44 pm
Well written
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 29, 2017, 06:24:13 pm
Added something about Die Linke. The fact that the AfD has replaced the Die Linke as the voice of disappointed East Germans is pretty much ignored. Probably because people think they must be completely opposed to eachother, even though they share the anti-establishment and anti-EU party identity. But fact is the CDU has lost more voters to the FDP then to AfD, though this can also be explained by FDP-voters returning from a flirt with the CDU. It's easier and more appealing for the CDU to re-align to the right (because of its conservative voter base) than to FDP voters, also because the FDP has a far stronger party organization and is much less likely to disappear.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on September 29, 2017, 09:17:30 pm
I heard some rumor about Frauke Petry forming her own party with her supporters (die blauen?).
That's what I'm basing my "bad organization" of but I haven't really keept up in the last couple of days.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phoen!x on September 29, 2017, 09:34:00 pm
I heard some rumor about Frauke Petry forming her own party with her supporters (die blauen?).
That's what I'm basing my "bad organization" of but I haven't really keept up in the last couple of days.

Nothing major has happened yet
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 29, 2017, 09:47:16 pm
It would be a bad time to defect. The AfD gained the biggest victory in their existance, and the whole leadership issue was around making the party more electable and changing to a governing-willing platform. Leaving based on the first issue would be ridicious, and based on the second issue would be pre-mature since no government has yet been made, nor would a split-off from the AfD be necessary to govern in the so-called Jamaican coalition (CDU/CSU, Grüne, FDP) or an unlikely continuation of the Grand Coalition (CDU/CSU, SDP). The only theoretic possibility would be if the Grüne decide not to enter in a coalition and Frauke Petry manages to convince at least another 28 AfD'ers to defect, but that's a very unlikely scenario.

I think it's more likely that the AfD's internal struggle (which, make no mistake, is still there) will escalate again after either perceived failures of the AfD leadership or members of its radical wing go too far in the eyes of the moderate wing. That might lead to more defections (The far right is really its own worst enemy in that regard), but it's really too early to say.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on September 30, 2017, 09:19:39 pm
Results for the Iraqi Kurdistan referendum are in 93% yes for independece.

Now let's get ready for another illegal referendum tomorrow bois!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on September 30, 2017, 09:27:08 pm
Police blocking some of the polling stations I think. This is gonna go down well.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 30, 2017, 10:56:18 pm
Either way, this referendum is not going to legitimize the independence declaration. It's impossible to tell who will be able to vote and who won't, and no-voters will likely boycot it anyway, just like they did in 2014. The result is going to be something like 85.3% in favour of independence with 43.3% turnout.

I'm just hoping nobody gets hurt, because tensions are pretty high and the Spanish government is not fucking around.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 01, 2017, 12:36:36 pm
Grim scenes coming out of Catalonia-riot police beating people trying to vote, including old women. Yet another massive own goal from Madrid and independence is looking increasingly inevitable...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 01, 2017, 12:48:53 pm
It's not inevitable. Illegal votes won't hold up with anyone
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 01, 2017, 01:36:43 pm
Grim scenes coming out of Catalonia-riot police beating people trying to vote, including old women. Yet another massive own goal from Madrid and independence is looking increasingly inevitable...

Then again, what should they do? Like it or not, the Spanish government is working within its legal power, the Catalonian regional government isn't. That's something too many people easily forget.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 01, 2017, 01:58:47 pm
Torres caving in regards to tuition fees. Not as far as labour but they're not gonna raise them any further and have raised the repayment threshold to 25 grand.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 01, 2017, 02:13:14 pm
Results for the Iraqi Kurdistan referendum are in 93% yes for independece.

Now let's get ready for another illegal referendum tomorrow bois!
I recognise Kurdistan referendum legal. Iraq couldn't protect them from ISIS so these people are free to make their own laws. Catalonian one is illegal, selfish bastards.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 01, 2017, 03:05:22 pm
That's not how law works mcpero
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 01, 2017, 03:09:30 pm
Grim scenes coming out of Catalonia-riot police beating people trying to vote, including old women. Yet another massive own goal from Madrid and independence is looking increasingly inevitable...

Then again, what should they do? Like it or not, the Spanish government is working within its legal power, the Catalonian regional government isn't. That's something too many people easily forget.

Obviously they should have restricted themselves to simply shutting down websites, encouraging 'No' voters to boycott the vote and refuse to recognise the outcome. Smacking people over the head with police batons and seizing ballot boxes from polling stations looks awful. These scenes are so counter-productive I can't believe Madrid is so stupid. They've created a legitimate grievance, massively boosted international support for Catalonia and the region is now more determined than ever to secede. Good luck to them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 01, 2017, 03:44:49 pm
I agree completely with that. It doesn't mean that those actions suddenly are illegal though.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 01, 2017, 04:09:06 pm
That's not how law works mcpero
No but it is how life works. Iraq might be still lawful owner of Kurdistan but nobody will give a shit about that when Kurdistan has huge army and support of Russia (this is blind guess but it makes sense, because Iraq is US colony and Kurdistan would be Russian ally since Russia defeated ISIS) to enforce their referendum. Saying this referendum is illegal is like saying rebel groups in Nazi reich in WW2 were illegal, if you view Nazi Reich occupation as legal (no war declaration on Poland, attacking ally (Kingdom of Yugoslavia)) than they are illegal.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 01, 2017, 04:13:58 pm
You can't compare Nazis to the Iraqi government
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 01, 2017, 04:27:28 pm
That's not how law works mcpero
No but it is how life works. Iraq might be still lawful owner of Kurdistan but nobody will give a shit about that when Kurdistan has huge army and support of Russia (this is blind guess but it makes sense, because Iraq is US colony and Kurdistan would be Russian ally since Russia defeated ISIS) to enforce their referendum. Saying this referendum is illegal is like saying rebel groups in Nazi reich in WW2 were illegal, if you view Nazi Reich occupation as legal (no war declaration on Poland, attacking ally (Kingdom of Yugoslavia)) than they are illegal.

When the fuck have the Kurds had the support of Russia? If Russia decided to ally itself with Kurdistan it would sour the Russian/Turkey relation that Putin have tried to achieve greatly maybe even making Turkey move towards the west again. He would not take that risk if he knows what's good for him.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 01, 2017, 04:54:15 pm
I agree completely with that. It doesn't mean that those actions suddenly are illegal though.

Do you mean the actions of the police? Because I think it's increasingly obvious that the Spanish police have broken both Spanish and EU law in Catalonia. It'll be interesting to see if the EU Commission gets involved which it surely ought to. Several EU leaders have already spoken out. You can't bash Poland for a fairly grey issue but not slap down Madrid for something that's clear as day.

As for the voters...well yes, they've broken the law, but so did the Poles/Czechs/East Germans/etc in 1989. It comes down to moral authority and given Catalan separatists keep winning the regional elections on a platform of independence you can't really deny them the vote. Had Madrid allowed a vote to go ahead and love-bombed the region I reckon they'd have won it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 01, 2017, 07:24:02 pm
That's not how law works mcpero
No but it is how life works. Iraq might be still lawful owner of Kurdistan but nobody will give a shit about that when Kurdistan has huge army and support of Russia (this is blind guess but it makes sense, because Iraq is US colony and Kurdistan would be Russian ally since Russia defeated ISIS) to enforce their referendum. Saying this referendum is illegal is like saying rebel groups in Nazi reich in WW2 were illegal, if you view Nazi Reich occupation as legal (no war declaration on Poland, attacking ally (Kingdom of Yugoslavia)) than they are illegal.

When the fuck have the Kurds had the support of Russia? If Russia decided to ally itself with Kurdistan it would sour the Russian/Turkey relation that Putin have tried to achieve greatly maybe even making Turkey move towards the west again. He would not take that risk if he knows what's good for him.
Yeah Putin and Erdogan are so such allies they shoot down each other's planes. Erdogan is going away from EU because if Turkey joins EU he can't have as much power over Turkey not because Russia wants to ally Turkey. Turkey and Russia can't be friends because: Syria and Russia are fighting ISIS that is US dog to remove Russia from middle East (Fleet in Syria). Kurds are fighting against ISIS and Turkey joined fights against ISIS only to kill Kurdish rebels saying it was ISIS units. Russia also asked for Kurdistan to be represented in peace talks with US. So yes they are allies. Kurds and Russians just have common enemies Iraq, ISIS.

A bad comparison so I have better one. Saying Kurdish referendum is illegal is like saying Communist Yugoslavia was illegal state because land belonged to Kingdom of Yugoslavia whos king and goverment fled instead of fighting Nazis.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on October 02, 2017, 12:16:22 am
The Kurds captured all that land fair and square, a civil war is going to be happening there regardless.
Especially with Isis now getting more ground back because the opposing armies pushed so far it offered them the opportunity to flank around and take back provinces they had before.
Kurdistan needs to be a thing as much as the Syrian state should stop being constantly threatened by the West.
YPG are dirty commies though, but then again the Kurds are extremely spread out with different groups and divisions so I wonder how their government will work out.
Hopefully they won't be constantly harassed by Israel though, they like to mingle in affairs that are not theirs by bombing and shelling whilst threatening behind big brother US.
I especially love the relationship between Russia & Syria though, Assad has been portrayed extremely bad by the media with constant lies and propaganda against him over the years, keep in mind that Assad is pretty much the only leader in the Middle East that doesn't hunt down Christians and actively cares about his own people, actually caring about civilian deaths.

FREE SYRIAN STATE
FREE KURDISH STATE
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 02, 2017, 12:26:24 am
Stop chatting shite piercee
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 02, 2017, 12:39:33 am
Assad sure handled the Arab Spring nicely what a great leader wow.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Eddie on October 02, 2017, 12:41:25 am
If Hitler had won we wouldnt have bullshit like this
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on October 02, 2017, 12:54:16 am
Assad sure handled the Arab Spring nicely what a great leader wow.
Did his government get overthrown? Nope they didn't.
That's a success in the middle-east.

Stop chatting shite piercee

What of my message is shite.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 02, 2017, 12:56:30 am
Most of it tbh. That territory is legally part of Iraq, there is no 'fair and square' about it. You think by creating a new state the threat to the Kurdish people from ISIS will suddenly disappear? If you do then you're incredibly naïve. Assad has committed war crimes on more than one occasion. You have extremely low standards if you think he's anything other than a vile human being.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Eddie on October 02, 2017, 01:03:56 am
If Hitler had won we wouldnt have bullshit like this
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on October 02, 2017, 01:08:55 am
Most of it tbh. That territory is legally part of Iraq, there is no 'fair and square' about it. You think by creating a new state the threat to the Kurdish people from ISIS will suddenly disappear? If you do then you're incredibly naïve. Assad has committed war crimes on more than one occasion. You have extremely low standards if you think he's anything other than a vile human being.

So you're also saying that Israel should be returned to Palestine then considering it was originally theirs before it was taken from them and given to the Jews after WW2.
I'm not saying the threat of ISIS will suddenly dissapear, it's that they've always been promised a land, that promised land was originally also part region of Iraq and surrounding countries.
For the amount they've done in those areas I think they atleast deserve their fair share for the war they've fought.

ISIS will not dissapear, but it will do the same thing as it did that created ISIS, rebel groups were given equipment by the US because they wanted the groups to fight it out themselves.
These rebel groups either lost really quickly or joined up with ISIS themselves, basically granting them the equipment.
Half of the weak Iraqi army abandoned their positions when they weren't even losing a battle and thus suddenly the divisions of ISIS had modern assault rifles and heavy equipment including vehicles like Humvees, it's ridicilous how much instability the US has created in those areas.

Rebel groups are still around there and they're still fighting, there was fighting between the FSA, SAA, YPG, PKK, ISIS, Turkish Army, and other unnamed rebel groups in MULTIPLE cities at the same time. It's clear that a central government has to be formed to kinda stabilize it atleast a tad because with the current situation you'd have infighting for the upcoming hundred years.
That goes about both Iraq and Syria, there's shittons of peshmerga and other Kurdish divisions fighting rebels in all of those areas.

Which war crimes has Assad actually commited though, alot of it has been debunked.
Some reports for example say that Assad already turned his chemical weapons in around 2012-2013.
But then there's a so called chemical attack a few years later in Syria?
But then also there's multiple media saying, Assad did it and there's other media saying the rebels did it with proof even linking it to them?
Who's to believe according to you then? I guess you'd say the rebels are to be trusted with their information.
This is the information the West wants you to have in your mind, you're manipulated to hate anything your state opposes.

That's why I lost pretty much any trust I had in Trump when he decided to bomb Syria.

You can't deny there's always been VERY shady shit going on with the US and the middle-east, setting up puppet governments and destabelizing the regions overall with false reports and falsified decisions to start a war, it's happened to Iran, Iraq, Syria and a few more.
Starting a revolution in a country is easy if you appoint someone like they did in Iraq many years ago, someone who was extremely out of touch with the population whilst half of the population still supported Hussein's generals.
They could've picked someone to lead the government who actually lived his live in Iraq and was in touch with the population but they chose an outsider..
Which caused another civil war, yeah that's totally normal.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Eddie on October 02, 2017, 01:09:30 am
If Hitler had won we wouldnt have bullshit like this
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on October 02, 2017, 01:18:40 am
I'm just gonna say the world would be a better place if all of us just died.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Eddie on October 02, 2017, 01:18:59 am
Yes
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 02, 2017, 01:43:00 am
I can't be arsed having this conversation cos most of that paragraph was just a load of waffle
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on October 02, 2017, 02:08:24 am
I can't be arsed having this conversation cos most of that paragraph was just a load of waffle

Sound
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 02, 2017, 02:33:47 am
That's why I lost pretty much any trust I had in Trump when he decided to bomb Syria.

That's Ivanka and Kushner's influence for you, which sadly shows no signs of waning.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on October 02, 2017, 02:57:36 am
That's why I lost pretty much any trust I had in Trump when he decided to bomb Syria.

That's Ivanka and Kushner's influence for you, which sadly shows no signs of waning.

I fully agree, he let them manipulate him way too much.
Look at how many people stepped down that were so close to him, most of the reasons are because Ivanka's and Kushner's reasoning was that they were against their ''beliefs'' and so they kinda bullied them off, it's sad.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 02, 2017, 05:16:40 pm
Assad sure handled the Arab Spring nicely what a great leader wow.
Tell me if there was no ISIS and other "rebel" forces which are created by CIA causing war, would you rather live in Syria or Egypt where Arab Spring was successful? Assad keeps peace and stability in his country while countries where Arab Spring was successful are just some chaotic states where new dictators are taking over. Life in Syria was pretty good, you just shouldn't oppose the goverment and you were fine xd. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 03, 2017, 11:40:56 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc2jyKaq_lg
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 03, 2017, 11:43:40 pm
Lmao why was he throwing them like he was going for a three pointer
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on October 04, 2017, 12:19:20 am
trump didn't curry at the white house with that form
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 04, 2017, 06:43:31 pm
Assad sure handled the Arab Spring nicely what a great leader wow.
Did his government get overthrown? Nope they didn't.
That's a success in the middle-east.

I was mostly referring to him ordering the beating, arresting and killing of unarmed protesters.
Resulting in army officers defecting, western involvement and a full scale civil war.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 04, 2017, 08:31:28 pm
Also that his regime kills far, far more civilians then IS or even all other sides combined. Whatever you can say about the other sides, Assad is a murdering dictator that, like most dictators, created the situation where his regime is necessary to provide some form of stability, much like organized crime creates the situation that requires shop-owners to pay 'protection money' for protection they wouldn't require if there wasn't maffia around in the first place.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 05, 2017, 09:10:28 pm
A few people were shot in a hotel
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 05, 2017, 09:58:58 pm
Also that his regime kills far, far more civilians then IS or even all other sides combined. Whatever you can say about the other sides, Assad is a murdering dictator that, like most dictators, created the situation where his regime is necessary to provide some form of stability, much like organized crime creates the situation that requires shop-owners to pay 'protection money' for protection they wouldn't require if there wasn't maffia around in the first place.
USA caused much more deaths and destruction of Syria than Assad did. That is why Syrians now want Assad to be president. Syria would be just fine without USA supporting "rebels" and ISIS in Syria. Fine as the things can be fine when USA supports decolonization only to neocolonize everything. So it is USA's fault Assad even became dictator in first place.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 05, 2017, 10:10:50 pm
I can't tell if mcpero is trolling or if he genuinely thinks Assad is a stand up bloke?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 05, 2017, 10:26:34 pm
I can't tell if mcpero is trolling or if he genuinely thinks Assad is a stand up bloke?
Assad is dictator that kills and imprisons opposition. Like 90% of former colonies. Still better than a war.
What happens if Assad is overthrown? You get another dictator installed by USA or some extremist. Success!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 05, 2017, 10:27:53 pm
Being a bad person isn't relative to anyone else. I might kill ten people but just because somebody else has killed more that doesn't mean I'm not a bad person or a bad leader.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 05, 2017, 10:36:09 pm
Being a bad person isn't relative to anyone else. I might kill ten people but just because somebody else has killed more that doesn't mean I'm not a bad person or a bad leader.
Never said he is a good person. But he is fighting on the right side.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 05, 2017, 10:52:36 pm
Being a bad person isn't relative to anyone else. I might kill ten people but just because somebody else has killed more that doesn't mean I'm not a bad person or a bad leader.
Never said he is a good person. But he is fighting on the right side.
And what side is that? The side of being a cunt? Maybe you need to stop seeing things so linear and start realising that not everything is as black and white as you make it out to be. The rebels might be knobs as well but that doesn't make Assad the good guy. All it makes is a group of war weary civilians stuck in the middle of two or more factions fighting for control
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 06, 2017, 08:36:03 am
Being a bad person isn't relative to anyone else. I might kill ten people but just because somebody else has killed more that doesn't mean I'm not a bad person or a bad leader.
Never said he is a good person. But he is fighting on the right side.
And what side is that? The side of being a cunt? Maybe you need to stop seeing things so linear and start realising that not everything is as black and white as you make it out to be. The rebels might be knobs as well but that doesn't make Assad the good guy. All it makes is a group of war weary civilians stuck in the middle of two or more factions fighting for control
He is fighting USA, which is fucking up world pretty hard with their neocolonisation and constantly starting new wars. And yeah exactly civilians suffer the most but there would be no war if it wasn't for USA foreign policy. So in this case you can see things white and black unless you are looking from nature's point of view then everything is neutral.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 06, 2017, 08:46:31 am
Assad is a bad man and a bad leader. Just because he's fighting somebody else is irrelevant.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 06, 2017, 01:37:47 pm
Even the NRA is now calling for additional legislation on bump stocks...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Harald Wulfstan on October 06, 2017, 01:41:35 pm
2 russians were executed by isis recently :O
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on October 06, 2017, 02:57:42 pm
Even the NRA is now calling for additional legislation on bump stocks...
When people dump the bodies of the victims on the NRA before they even say anything and then they say something reasonable but fuck the NRA anyways amiright
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 06, 2017, 04:41:11 pm
Yes because the NRA might have changed their opinion now but they've still lobbied against gun control. People are just pointing that out.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 06, 2017, 04:54:30 pm
Good luck closing Pandora's box  :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on October 06, 2017, 05:39:52 pm
 bump stocks are selling like crazy now.  Pretty sure most distributors are already sold out

But for real, it's just like with Trump, media only points out his 'outbursts', never his good side.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 06, 2017, 06:12:06 pm
Like publically not giving a fuck about an American territory with over 3 million American citizens? Damn media.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 06, 2017, 06:16:28 pm
how somebody acts at their worst is a good way to see their true character. Trump acts like a cunt at his worst.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 06, 2017, 06:22:59 pm
Even the NRA is now calling for additional legislation on bump stocks...
When people dump the bodies of the victims on the NRA before they even say anything and then they say something reasonable but fuck the NRA anyways amiright

Not at all my intention. It is comepletely out of character for the NRA to be for any type of gun control measure. Why this? Why now? Why not call for legislation against large-calibre rifles? What is it that makes bump stocks so special that it warrants legislation? And why not something else?


Bottom line, I am suprised they 'started caring' suddenly about bump stocks... I applaud it, though in this case, I think it is just fighting the symptons.
And it is ironic, because you could use the NRA's main argument against them now:

Why ban bump stocks? Bump stocks don't kill people, people with bump stocks kill people.
Yes, but a bump stock certainly fucking helps, doesn't it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phoen!x on October 06, 2017, 07:22:01 pm
Less about the availability than the culture of the usage of the guns. Switzerland is quite liberal as well but the related deaths per capita are not comprable. It's an important discussion but I don't like how Las Vegas is used to keep the arguments very emotional.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 06, 2017, 07:28:43 pm
Like publically not giving a fuck about an American territory with over 3 million American citizens? Damn media.

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/a461951a37b99dc4e66c48847165a0c0.png)
[close]

Yeah, it's just the worst.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 06, 2017, 09:11:23 pm
Not at all my intention. It is comepletely out of character for the NRA to be for any type of gun control measure. Why this? Why now? Why not call for legislation against large-calibre rifles? What is it that makes bump stocks so special that it warrants legislation? And why not something else?

It is in the hopes of finding that "compromise" that gun control advocates prattle on about. We give them the useless range toy that found literally the one manner in which it could be marginally useful (Elevated position and pointed at a crowd of twenty thousand), and we get national CC reciprocity.

Fat chance it'll work, but it's worth the attempt.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on October 06, 2017, 09:14:12 pm
Because if they compromise on this they can use it as leverage against gun control advocates for years to come.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on October 06, 2017, 09:22:49 pm
Trump hinting at calm before storm --> Reports of North Korea testing a missile capable of hitting mainland U.S. soon. My body is not ready.

and apparently some fuckers in the military leaked that we only have a months worth of smartbombs in the Korean Peninsula. Whoever leaked that needs to be court-martialed because that is something of extreme strategic importance and should never be leaked to the press under any circumstances.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 06, 2017, 09:26:52 pm
In the Netherlands we'll finally have a government at the end of this month. Yay.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 06, 2017, 09:40:30 pm
How long has it been duuring?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 06, 2017, 09:41:23 pm
205 days so far, maybe one more or less. Pretty sure it set the national record.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on October 06, 2017, 09:43:12 pm
Welp, if we go to war with North Korea, wish me luck!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 06, 2017, 09:49:49 pm
Trump hinting at calm before storm --> Reports of North Korea testing a missile capable of hitting mainland U.S. soon. My body is not ready.

and apparently some fuckers in the military leaked that we only have a months worth of smartbombs in the Korean Peninsula. Whoever leaked that needs to be court-martialed because that is something of extreme strategic importance and should never be leaked to the press under any circumstances.

If Kim's telling the truth about the range of his missiles then we may be in for a treat after all.

As I envision it: Kim will vaporize the western deep-blue states, and then shall be subsequently deposed by the Chinese. Splendid.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 06, 2017, 09:53:13 pm
Directly hitting US soil is a splendid idea. It'll give the most powerful military in the world a mandate to remove your country from google maps entirely.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 06, 2017, 09:55:26 pm
205 days so far, maybe one more or less. Pretty sure it set the national record.
Damn that sucks
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on October 06, 2017, 10:02:52 pm
Directly hitting US soil is a splendid idea. It'll give the most powerful military in the world a mandate to remove your country from google maps entirely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6se66gQRJcw
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 06, 2017, 10:09:12 pm
Everyone shitting themselves when they have more antinukes than North Korea barels of oil.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 06, 2017, 10:11:26 pm
205 days so far, maybe one more or less. Pretty sure it set the national record.
Like Netherlands need goverment lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 06, 2017, 10:18:02 pm
205 days so far, maybe one more or less. Pretty sure it set the national record.
Damn that sucks

Why? I mean, 205 days is a little bit excessive, of course, but it's not like we're some form of crisis for 205 days.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 06, 2017, 10:19:49 pm
205 days so far, maybe one more or less. Pretty sure it set the national record.
Damn that sucks

Why? I mean, 205 days is a little bit excessive, of course, but it's not like we're some form of crisis for 205 days.
Exactly better no goverment than dutch trump
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 06, 2017, 10:27:06 pm
Wrong. Wilders is Wilders, and Trump is the American Wilders. Wilders is the original.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 06, 2017, 10:28:45 pm
At least you don't have politicians who wear a military ops vest in parliament

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjalta.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F10%2FBaudet-1280x640.jpg&hash=436fc51d630bdba55c1a1960dec278a45fbecb59)


No joke, that is the vest I get issued
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 06, 2017, 10:39:05 pm
Such a cheap stunt. And even though the points he brought forward aren't lies or irrelevant, it pretty much missed the mark entirely on the subject of the debate which was about political responsibility and safety checks, but most importantly, the lack of criticism or feedback due to militairy discipline. He ignored that entirely, not giving a single second of attention to the issue. You can buy your soldiers as much gear as possible, if security checks and other safety precautions are ignored or not up to level without alarmbells ringing, it is not going to improve the situation. His call for a soldier as Minister of Defence not only throws away the principle of civilian oversight of the militairy, but also just expands the problem.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 07, 2017, 12:03:30 am
It is the point I sympathise with.
I hope you can at least appreciate my feelings on the matter when a politician literally spells out the problems you have been dealing with. Even with just one year in the military and 16 weeks of basic training, you know how shit the gear is.

I am going to explain just for the fucks of it.

Let's start with the ops vest. It can't be sized properly at all. It means it adds an extra dimension to the 7 kilo's it wil weigh. The shoulder pieces are too think making carrying a backpack extremely uncomfortable. The bags are too plentiful on it. sure you can stash all sorts of shit, but having a small 30L backpack will solve this easily. It is too bulky and makes too much noise - pretty much lethal for scouts and recon units. The magazine pouches are closed, not with elastic bands, as is common, but with actual lids. The action requires at least 3 seconds more even for an experienced soldier. That is 3 seconds someone isn't putting lead downrange and it is the sort of time that can kill. Literally the only thing the vest has going for it, is that it's cheap and you can store a lot of bullshit in there, which especially for an officer who needs to do butt fuck nothing with fighting is great.

Then the boots. The Meindls we get issued are too wide for a lot of people with narrow feet, like me. The soles are too stiff. Now I have a history of hiking and I did prepare before I started basic, so it wasn't my fault when I could barely walk for 6 weeks after my finex. The march home was a punishing 25 to 30 clicks marching at night for 3 days. It isn't even that impressive a distance to cover. It was made specifically punishing by literally the state of our gear.

The rucksack... it's... it's just fucking bollocks it is. The hip bands are too soft, they add very little support. The shoulder bands are too thin, barely padded and cut into your shoulders. The zips, plastic locks and pieces for all the straps are made of poor quality plastic and dont keep enough suspention on the straps, requiring you to adjust all the straps every 5 minutes and I am not even exaggerating. The only thing that is good about it is that it is 60L in contents.... but there's plenty of other backpacks out there for that, too. Also: if you're taller than 1.90 (pretty common) you WILL get back pains to the point it is literally unhealthy. The army recognises this and permits people of 1.90 and taller to opt for the 120L backpack in use with Cavalry and infantry units, which, thank fuck, is of proper quality.

What else is there? Ah yes. The radio's. Now I know that an army stereotype is that radio's barely work.... But the Dutch military tops it all. The radio's are 30 years old. If that doesn't say enough, they're 12 kilo's in weight. That wouldn't be too much of a problem, but the battery's only last for roughly 2 days when used when on for most of the day and reserve ones weigh an additional 2kilo's. The range on the poor fucks were at best 6km and that is in afghanistan. In the forest they go at about 2 to 3 km.

The rifles are great though. The only thing annoying with it, is that the stock isn't tighly fitted to the rest of the rifle so it wobbles, but it's relatively easy to adjust for that. For the rest it's a solid piece.

We get issued sporks... to eat with. Which in and on itself isn't a bad idea, but they're made of stiff plastic. Given the organic way to pack your coat, it is in your right lower pocket. Have 1 contact drill and it breaks in two. This is remedied by buying your own spork, a titanium one, costing you 16 bucks. Most people, however, buy their own so-called 'tactical' spoon. Which is a non-shiny spoon bought at literally anywhere. I got mine at Hema.

The shit we are supposed to cook on is esbit on an aluminium cooker. What is esbit? imagine styrofoam soaked in kerosine and compress that a lot. Light it on fire and if you smell it, you almost acutely get cancer (not literally).
It takes way too long to cook water and food on it and esbit doesnt work in freezing temperatures. For comfort people buy a jetboil, which boils water using propane gas in about 2 minutes. I am not saying the army should provide jey boilers, but small propane tanks would be useful. We buy the propane kits for 30 bucks, a jetboil is 70.

We do not get issued headlamps. As simple as that. We do not get headlights for the offchance we're allowed to use them to clean our rifles. Of course you need to have a good one who endure some level of bumping it into stuff so we buy Petzl headlamps going at 50 bucks.

Gloves. We do get issued gloves. They're called nomex gloves and they're great if you're in the air force. The marines get them issued as well and when used intensely for 2 weeks, you can throw them away because 3 fingers will have holes in them and they'll be useless. We buy our own tactical gloves for roughly 25 bucks.

Barets. A marine referred to our barets as 'shapeless pancakes'. He's not far off. They're too thick, too warm and shape like an old woman's twat in summertime. Almost the ENTIRE army and marine corps buys their own from Noorloos Specialist Equipment (hilariously an ex-marine making a killing in selling stuff the army doesnt deliver properly on, almost all his customers are military, a significantly smaller portion are airsofters). They sell English-styled barets going at 17,50 a piece. THey're awesome everyone gets them, they look great.

EDIT: this is all based on my personal experience I have had with the gear. None of this I have heard from from other. It is all what I have had to do with the shit I get.

2nd EDIT: The story I have written here is strictly my own personal opinion and in no way representative to army or Dutch military policy or organisational opninion


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 07, 2017, 12:09:40 am
From the perspecitive of the politician, why would you care? You ask if a unit is operational, the officer is peer-pressured to say it is and off you go to Afghanistan. As little tax payer's money wasted as possible. And then people get killed - shockingly.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 07, 2017, 12:27:24 am
because a lot depends on the effective work the military does? And because the public will fucking smite you if problems rise with the military because it is a matter of pride and emotion?

That, and because saving money on gear will actualy produce more costs down the line... It's a short term solutin that will provide a shitton more of life cycle costs.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 07, 2017, 12:32:51 am
Does it? Is the public smiting the government? I'll remind you that all ministers of Defence since the end of conscription and the switch to a full professional army have been politicians from the VVD, CDA and CU. The same parties which are now once again forming a government. Of course, the militairy is getting more money, but do you really think they'll stop buying cheap shit gear? No government in the world buys gear for soldiers with the motivation to make them as operational and well-equipped as possible. It buys gear with the idea to make them just operational enough without being too expensive.

Quote
That, and because saving money on gear will actualy produce more costs down the line..

Easier to just defund the army and give people a tax break.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 07, 2017, 12:38:13 am
That's the point though... we're not operational enough
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 07, 2017, 12:38:49 am
Just show the enemy your can-do mentality.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 07, 2017, 12:39:39 am
Can I borrow the stick up your ass to beat them to death with then?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 07, 2017, 12:52:51 am
Pretty sure the size of that stick would make that a warcrime.

Like it or not, the militairy is by its very nature the easiest to defund. And finally soldiers are speaking up about this, and the new government is going to send extra money its way. But you're still gonna end up with shitty gear and having to buy your own shit. That's not gonna change.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on October 07, 2017, 12:55:23 am
Ouch
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on October 07, 2017, 01:53:48 am
Well hopefully we'll atleast get the new camo instead of the constant woodland, it's so outdated and most militaries rely on digital camos nowadays.
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcamopedia.org%2Fimages%2F3%2F3c%2FNewdutch.jpg&hash=70ac33e46cff13873ea70029ab94357deb3d5d06)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on October 07, 2017, 02:00:56 am
When they make changes to military budgets it's usually technical equipment etc anyway right? Like they buy more choppers, missiles and so on, not better backpacks lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on October 07, 2017, 03:22:38 am
When they make changes to military budgets it's usually technical equipment etc anyway right? Like they buy more choppers, missiles and so on, not better backpacks lol

Not always, basic infantry equipment is actually something that is often upgraded on, or atleast should be since alot of countries do it like this.
New weapon lines are being tested for that reason, new uniforms are constantly being developed for that reason and overall equipment like vests + helmets were done in that exact reason.
That's why most armies use FAST helmets now.
Don't forget that if you only spend money on equipment like vehicles, missiles and shit that you're eventually gonna fall far behind on infantry.
Infanty combat is still a thing, and it'll stay a thing.
Look at the middle-east, CQB happens every day. You can only do that with infantry, that's why infantry equipment needs to be also top notch to compete.
Like I'm glad my country's army uses the HK417 for example, it's a good rifle. Now we just need more fitting uniforms for tactical purposes, our armour plating in our vests is fine.
Could do with a different camo aswell and it'd be perfect. See what I mean?
Soldiers in the end win the war, not just helicopters and fancy toys.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 07, 2017, 09:03:16 am
In UK house of commons u are not allowed to wear armor.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 07, 2017, 10:58:04 am
When they make changes to military budgets it's usually technical equipment etc anyway right? Like they buy more choppers, missiles and so on, not better backpacks lol

Yeah. Those backpacks, like all equipment, have a life expectancy. They're not going to be replaced before their time.


Quote
Not always, basic infantry equipment is actually something that is often upgraded on, or atleast should be since alot of countries do it like this.
New weapon lines are being tested for that reason, new uniforms are constantly being developed for that reason and overall equipment like vests + helmets were done in that exact reason.

Just because they do tests, doesn't mean they actually get purchased. Those tests usually are done by private companies who want to make money, not the actual militairy.

Quote
Look at the middle-east, CQB happens every day. You can only do that with infantry, that's why infantry equipment needs to be also top notch to compete.
Like I'm glad my country's army uses the HK417 for example, it's a good rifle. Now we just need more fitting uniforms for tactical purposes, our armour plating in our vests is fine.

You're thinking from the perspective of a general, not of a politician. If we were to update our army everytime something better is created, you'd be spending money every year on new gear. It's not how it works. When it is time to replace a certain item (Its life expectancy has run out), it's decided with what to replace it. A compromise between quality and price is found, and because it's so easy to defund the army (Because they don't strike), usually it's the price that is the most important factor. And more often then not, it doesn't actually get replaced until long after its life expectancy because 'hey you're not gonna throw away this perfectly almost always working radio?!!!".
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 07, 2017, 12:16:36 pm
Where you from, Pierce?

When they make changes to military budgets it's usually technical equipment etc anyway right? Like they buy more choppers, missiles and so on, not better backpacks lol

No usually the first thing to be cut on is innovation. After that comes new investments, then training hours, floght and sailing hours are cut and then there will be personnel cuts
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 07, 2017, 12:30:12 pm
By googling the rifle it would appear Pierce is from Germany or pretty much any other country in the world
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 07, 2017, 02:15:51 pm
By googling the rifle it would appear Pierce is from Germany or pretty much any other country in the world
His description says "dutch cunt", no clue where is he from, aren't Dutch nation in Northwest India?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 07, 2017, 04:49:38 pm
Where you from, Pierce?

I doubt the even the boys at CGHQ could solve this mystery!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on October 07, 2017, 05:39:45 pm
When they make changes to military budgets it's usually technical equipment etc anyway right? Like they buy more choppers, missiles and so on, not better backpacks lol

Yeah. Those backpacks, like all equipment, have a life expectancy. They're not going to be replaced before their time.


Quote
Not always, basic infantry equipment is actually something that is often upgraded on, or atleast should be since alot of countries do it like this.
New weapon lines are being tested for that reason, new uniforms are constantly being developed for that reason and overall equipment like vests + helmets were done in that exact reason.

Just because they do tests, doesn't mean they actually get purchased. Those tests usually are done by private companies who want to make money, not the actual militairy.

Quote
Look at the middle-east, CQB happens every day. You can only do that with infantry, that's why infantry equipment needs to be also top notch to compete.
Like I'm glad my country's army uses the HK417 for example, it's a good rifle. Now we just need more fitting uniforms for tactical purposes, our armour plating in our vests is fine.

You're thinking from the perspective of a general, not of a politician. If we were to update our army everytime something better is created, you'd be spending money every year on new gear. It's not how it works. When it is time to replace a certain item (Its life expectancy has run out), it's decided with what to replace it. A compromise between quality and price is found, and because it's so easy to defund the army (Because they don't strike), usually it's the price that is the most important factor. And more often then not, it doesn't actually get replaced until long after its life expectancy because 'hey you're not gonna throw away this perfectly almost always working radio?!!!".

The testing actually leads to new weapon lines being developed, Russia just did it aswell with the AK12/AK15  that is competing with the A545.
They do testing and then whichever guns proves to be the best in every test will be the one which will be massively produced for their army.
It's also not about updating everytime something new is created, ofcourse that'd be a huge money sink since new stuff gets released all the time.
But when you're using the same uniforms from the 90s then it's actually time for upgrading imho. Uniforms don't really ''break'' but they can actually prove to be less effective overtime as other countries show their new camouflages being better to cover surroundings than your current uniforms are.
That's the whole case with the Dutch Woodland camo, it's quite outdated and it's so easy to get nowadays that sometimes it can also be hard to identify which troops are which.
Rebels own woodland pretty much all over the place.

I'd still say that if the budget goes up then the Dutch army aswell could get uniforms, they have been thinking about it for a few years and tested a few uniforms. It's said that a new uniform will be fully implemented between 2017-2018 although I have to wait to see that for myself since I am not entirely sure if they'll follow up on their promises this time.

The army could strike though but I guess it'd cause a heavy backlash, it's not something Western militaries do quite often but I remember seeing documentaries about militaries in the regions of Africa just deciding to say ''fuck it'' and leave with the people who didn't agree with the payment they were receiving. Quite funny to watch actually.


Also I'm Dutch, I come from quite a military family so that's why I'm interested in this. Trying to enlist myself aswell.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 07, 2017, 06:31:05 pm
Quote
The testing actually leads to new weapon lines being developed, Russia just did it aswell with the AK12/AK15  that is competing with the A545.
They do testing and then whichever guns proves to be the best in every test will be the one which will be massively produced for their army.

But that's not testing to create a good gun. That's just part of the decision-making process to decide which gun you're gonna order.

Quote
The army could strike though but I guess it'd cause a heavy backlash, it's not something Western militaries do quite often but I remember seeing documentaries about militaries in the regions of Africa just deciding to say ''fuck it'' and leave with the people who didn't agree with the payment they were receiving. Quite funny to watch actually.

There's a difference between an organized strike and just deserting.

Quote
That's the whole case with the Dutch Woodland camo, it's quite outdated and it's so easy to get nowadays that sometimes it can also be hard to identify which troops are which.
Rebels own woodland pretty much all over the place.

Considering we've been fighting insurrectionists and doing peacekeeper missions ever since the 90s, that didn't really have priority. Now that we're moving back to a conventional warfare focus, a camo-update is quite possible. But that doesn't mean the design of the uniforms still won't be shitty as fuck because they're made on the cheap.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 07, 2017, 06:41:26 pm
In other news, there's been yet another terrorist attack in London:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41538762

I feel this is worth mentioning considering all the ridicule that British comedians and pseudo-intellectuals alike have been firing at Americans over their gun laws. The hypocrisy is palpable, given the daily occurrence of knife and acid attacks in the south east. Clearly there's more at work here than simply having access to firearms.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 07, 2017, 06:55:57 pm
But having sensible gunlaws wouldn't hurt.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 07, 2017, 07:00:37 pm
Except how many gun attacks do you see in the UK? Not many. It's not hypocritical it's just common sense. Stricter laws on acid are coming to pass and I'm pretty sure it's already illegal to carry large knives in public. Yes that doesn't stop knife crime but it certainly makes it easier to police.

And as far as I know, the attacker wasn't carrying a gun and, as you can see, their effectiveness was severly dampened. The Las Vegas shooter wouldn't have killed nearly 60 people if he didn't have access to the weapons he did.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 07, 2017, 07:31:03 pm
But having sensible gunlaws wouldn't hurt.

The current bump stock workaround is moronic, it's true. I back any legislation that corrects access to them. But legislation against large firearms won't make a dent in the amount of gun crime plaguing the US since the majority of deaths are caused by small arms used by thugs and gangsters in the inner cities. In order to start tackling gun crime, the government would have to ban all firearms and start removing the existing ones from circulation. That's a forlorn and foolish pursuit, given the sheer number of all guns known to man that currently reside in the states. Then there's the very wealthy gun lobby, but I think that's been discussed already.

Except how many gun attacks do you see in the UK? Not many. It's not hypocritical it's just common sense. Stricter laws on acid are coming to pass and I'm pretty sure it's already illegal to carry large knives in public. Yes that doesn't stop knife crime but it certainly makes it easier to police.

You're reducing the problem significantly; criminals and thugs in the southern English cities are killing each other and innocents by any means necessary, they are not dependent on one method of murder. Not a week goes by where there isn't an attack committed with acid, blades of all kinds, or even a car/truck as we're seeing as of late. British legislation against weaponry can't keep up with the crude innovation of our criminals, becoming more and more ineffective with time.   

As for Las Vegas: I could just as easily argue that even if the United States had strict firearm laws, Paddock could have acquired guns via the black market (there's plenty of cheap guns flowing in from the south). Paris has very strict gun laws - you need a hunting or sporting license which needs to be repeatedly renewed via a psychological evaluation - but that didn't stop the Bataclan massacre. Cunning and patient terrorists who seek mass murder are not often stopped by legislation.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 07, 2017, 07:35:17 pm
No but France doesn't have a major gun attack multiple times a year, every year. He may have acquired the guns through the black market, true, but it would have been much harder. Britain has an issue with crime, but people aren't being mown down by gunmen every other week.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 07, 2017, 07:48:38 pm
On the contrary, France doesn't border a crime ridden country that is home to the cartel. I doubt there's crates full of cheap rifles and small arms coming in from Germany.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 07, 2017, 07:52:02 pm
Alright well how many of America's guns come from Mexico?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 07, 2017, 08:08:01 pm
It's safe to assume Chicago gangsters and the like are not purchasing them legally.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 07, 2017, 08:10:55 pm
Right so you don't have any actual evidence. A quick google search brings up results telling me that the majority of mass shooters obtained their firearms legally.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 07, 2017, 08:13:07 pm
On the contrary, France doesn't border a crime ridden country that is home to the cartel. I doubt there's crates full of cheap rifles and small arms coming in from Germany.

Poland and other ex-Communist Block countries are a haven for illegal weapons. Pretty much the entirety of Dutch organized crime is armed with AKs. So actually, yes, there are.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 07, 2017, 08:41:39 pm
Right so you don't have any actual evidence. A quick google search brings up results telling me that the majority of mass shooters obtained their firearms legally.

You're correct, I sadly do not have any documentation on the exact number of illicit firearms coming from Mexico into the United States. In case you didn't know, illegal firearms are not registered. And now it seems we've switched from the majority of gun criminals to mass shooters. Nice.


Poland and other ex-Communist Block countries are a haven for illegal weapons. Pretty much the entirety of Dutch organized crime is armed with AKs. So actually, yes, there are.

There's a clear-cut difference between old weapons being circulated like in formerly communist countries, and weapons being produced in addition to being circulated like in countries south of North America.

As for the Netherlands:

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/dab3cb048c1d243226867c751fb37008.png)
(https://i.gyazo.com/b8cbbb0cded8d63fd49971a1d33a62e6.png)

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/netherlands
[close]

So as I thought, not nearly comparable to the scale amount of illicit firearms in the US.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 07, 2017, 10:06:12 pm
Various things to keep in mind re: gun control.
1) Take away the guns and they'll find other ways to kill one another. In London someone is stabbed to death on average every 6 days. London police respond to stabbing incidents on average 5 times a day. Of course mass shootings are rare in the UK as a result of strict gun control, but it doesn't do much to reduce gang related violence which is where the bulk of the casualties are.
2) Gun control just isn't going to work in the USA, a country where there are already more guns than people. You can do various things to make the rules tighter but it's still going to be very easy for someone living there to get a gun.
3) I suspect this is more to do with the fairly poor way the US treats those with mental health issues. Americans have always had the right to bear arms yet mass shootings have only been a significant problem since the 1970s. The safest decade in modern American history was the 1950s when you had mass gun ownership, even laxer gun control laws than you have now, and an adult population with a higher degree of military experience than any previous generation.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on October 07, 2017, 10:10:47 pm
More EU hypocrisy plainly visible re: the Catalonia Referendum.

Enforce your nation's immigration/border laws and the EU Commission freaks the fuck out about "human rights" and collective responsibility. Send in national police to beat up peaceful groups and storm voting locations and they boldly declare that such "proportionate force" is needed to uphold the rule of law (still waiting for an explanation as to how voting can be illegal in a so called democracy).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on October 07, 2017, 10:20:51 pm
but people aren't being mown down by gunmen every other week.

Fun fact. Less than a thousand people have died in mass shootings in the US in the past 50 years. Islamic extremists have killed almost 500 people in Europe in the past 2 years (and wounded thousands more). But you keep telling us the second one is not a problem/major-concern and the first one you keep making sensational comments about ("mowed down by gunmen every other week"). hmmm....
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on October 07, 2017, 10:24:44 pm
what a fun fact
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 07, 2017, 10:45:06 pm
More EU hypocrisy plainly visible re: the Catalonia Referendum.

Enforce your nation's immigration/border laws and the EU Commission freaks the fuck out about "human rights" and collective responsibility. Send in national police to beat up peaceful groups and storm voting locations and they boldly declare that such "proportionate force" is needed to uphold the rule of law (still waiting for an explanation as to how voting can be illegal in a so called democracy).

Democracy is based on the rule of law. Democracy has rules, though this may come as a surprise to some people. Read this article, which shows why the Spanish government is entirely right in its action and the Catalan regional government are nothing but a bunch of hypocrite opportunists trying to ride the nationalism-wave.

https://medium.com/@tripu/referendum-e53331ddf841

Fun fact: "One more thing to consider: three years ago, the separatist Catalan government authorised police force to stop a popular “multireferendum” about a number of social issues in Catalonia, confiscating ballot boxes. Clearly, the Catalan leaders do not think that casting a ballot is always okay."
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 07, 2017, 11:11:20 pm
Spoiler
Right so you don't have any actual evidence. A quick google search brings up results telling me that the majority of mass shooters obtained their firearms legally.

You're correct, I sadly do not have any documentation on the exact number of illicit firearms coming from Mexico into the United States. In case you didn't know, illegal firearms are not registered. And now it seems we've switched from the majority of gun criminals to mass shooters. Nice.


Poland and other ex-Communist Block countries are a haven for illegal weapons. Pretty much the entirety of Dutch organized crime is armed with AKs. So actually, yes, there are.

There's a clear-cut difference between old weapons being circulated like in formerly communist countries, and weapons being produced in addition to being circulated like in countries south of North America.

As for the Netherlands:

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/dab3cb048c1d243226867c751fb37008.png)
(https://i.gyazo.com/b8cbbb0cded8d63fd49971a1d33a62e6.png)

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/netherlands
[close]

So as I thought, not nearly comparable to the scale amount of illicit firearms in the US.
[close]
Of course you don't have evidence, so what is the basis of your claim. My point is that the majority of shooter's firearms are bought legally in the USA. This was always a conversation about mass shooters as that is the entire reason for the calls for gun control in the USA. Have you not been reading the news since forever?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 07, 2017, 11:21:32 pm
Various things to keep in mind re: gun control.
1) Take away the guns and they'll find other ways to kill one another. In London someone is stabbed to death on average every 6 days. London police respond to stabbing incidents on average 5 times a day. Of course mass shootings are rare in the UK as a result of strict gun control, but it doesn't do much to reduce gang related violence which is where the bulk of the casualties are.
2) Gun control just isn't going to work in the USA, a country where there are already more guns than people. You can do various things to make the rules tighter but it's still going to be very easy for someone living there to get a gun.
3) I suspect this is more to do with the fairly poor way the US treats those with mental health issues. Americans have always had the right to bear arms yet mass shootings have only been a significant problem since the 1970s. The safest decade in modern American history was the 1950s when you had mass gun ownership, even laxer gun control laws than you have now, and an adult population with a higher degree of military experience than any previous generation.

Quite so. I'll take that as the conclusion to this debate.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on October 07, 2017, 11:37:08 pm
Spoiler
Right so you don't have any actual evidence. A quick google search brings up results telling me that the majority of mass shooters obtained their firearms legally.

You're correct, I sadly do not have any documentation on the exact number of illicit firearms coming from Mexico into the United States. In case you didn't know, illegal firearms are not registered. And now it seems we've switched from the majority of gun criminals to mass shooters. Nice.


Poland and other ex-Communist Block countries are a haven for illegal weapons. Pretty much the entirety of Dutch organized crime is armed with AKs. So actually, yes, there are.

There's a clear-cut difference between old weapons being circulated like in formerly communist countries, and weapons being produced in addition to being circulated like in countries south of North America.

As for the Netherlands:

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/dab3cb048c1d243226867c751fb37008.png)
(https://i.gyazo.com/b8cbbb0cded8d63fd49971a1d33a62e6.png)

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/netherlands
[close]

So as I thought, not nearly comparable to the scale amount of illicit firearms in the US.
[close]
Of course you don't have evidence, so what is the basis of your claim. My point is that the majority of shooter's firearms are bought legally in the USA. This was always a conversation about mass shooters as that is the entire reason for the calls for gun control in the USA. Have you not been reading the news since forever?
In crime ridden cities, its the opposite.  That's what should be looked at more than the occasional mass shooter, considering how many people die in inner cities due to gun violence.  Take a look at this study: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf
Majority of incarcerated felons charged with homicide with a gun involved got them illegally, either through social media or other connections.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 07, 2017, 11:59:57 pm
So why is gun crime such a big issue in the US? Because of the gun culture. Nobody can deny that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 12:36:03 am
What an incredibly disingenuous manner in which to frame the debate. Of course a nation with more firearms is going to have more firearm related crime.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on October 08, 2017, 12:38:29 am
Of course a nation with more firearms is going to have more firearm related crime.

No, not neccesarily. Just look at Switserland.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 12:44:56 am
Not true at all boberton
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 12:54:17 am
So you're saying that access to firearms doesn't correlate with their use in crime?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on October 08, 2017, 12:55:56 am
I think it has more to do with American culture. There was one particular Michael Moore documentary I had watched in class I  liked calling Bowling for Colombine. It talks a lot about the nature of American news and how it pushes violence and race as identifying factors while in Canada everyone is fine and leaves their doors unlocked and every adult male in Switzerland owns a gun. It's not the guns, it's the people.

For these reasons I want us to reintroduce slavery or just send the blacks back. Literally 90% of America's problems would go away 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on October 08, 2017, 01:02:28 am
Not everyone is "fine in Canada"
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 01:06:45 am
So you're saying that access to firearms doesn't correlate with their use in crime?
Not every country is the same. Clearly there is something different in America which makes its society a lot more dangerous in regards to firearms. I don't know what that is though.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on October 08, 2017, 01:26:38 am
It's more than that if you are looking at the circumstances of a majority of these gun related crimes.  Most happen in inner cities, by African American males.  Have to look at the societal and economic environment of those environments as it has a direct impact on gun crime stats, growing up in an environment where poverty is high, access to drugs/gun is also high, poor education... it's no where comparable to Switzerland
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 01:27:44 am
I don't know what that is though.

And yet just a short while ago you were very definitively stating that it was due to our "gun culture".
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 01:32:03 am
I don't know what that is though.

And yet just a short while ago you were very definitively stating that it was due to our "gun culture".
Well it must be something. I'm speculating. I should have guessed you were American though due to the instant defensive tone when the issue was brought up.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 01:35:41 am
Just tired of people acting like a crime committed with a firearm is more heinous or special than one committed with any other weapon, and going after that specifically, in lieu of tackling the much larger and more difficult problem of crime in general.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 01:37:45 am
How do you tackle crime then boberton? You limit the ways the crime can be committed, which in the USA is firearms.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 01:39:29 am
You solve the underlying social problems, like the almost complete lack of education present for the populations of dense urban areas, where the vast majority of these crimes are committed. Taking the guns solves nothing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 01:40:37 am
Well for a start, taking the gun stops that person from mowing down 60 innocents at a concert in Las Vegas.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 01:45:29 am
But not from taking a truck or bomb to the crowd and doing just as much damage. Keep in mind that the killer in Las Vegas was a multi-millionaire. He had no shortage of options.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 01:47:25 am
But we're not talking about his options. He bought a rifle and killed dozens of people with it as though it was the easiest thing in the world. Stop making excuses for it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on October 08, 2017, 02:07:38 am
Ah, emotional appeals
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 02:17:27 am
Ah, emotional appeals
Glad to see nearly 60 dead people doesn't spur you into action
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on October 08, 2017, 03:02:49 am
Ah, emotional appeals
Glad to see nearly 60 dead people doesn't spur you into action
Well we're both A) in the wrong country and B) not part of the decision making process
So no, I don't let the deaths of 60 people give me the opportunity to signal my virtue online
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on October 08, 2017, 03:32:31 am
Ah, emotional appeals
Glad to see nearly 60 dead people doesn't spur you into action
well they were most likely republicans who voted Trump so I have no sympathy for them
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on October 08, 2017, 03:33:37 am
How do you tackle crime then boberton? You limit the ways the crime can be committed, which in the USA is firearms.

Generally, it is more effective to go after the cause of an illness than the symptom. Your asserted enabler of crime, firearms, is not only something most of the population uses responsibly, but a directly specified right to possession for the citizenry of the United States.

If one was truly desiring to prevent the rampant and widespread crime of certain communities in the United States, one would be more efficient supporting the immediate cessation of the Federal subsidization of broken families - tackling not only generational criminalization*, but that of generational poverty and other such societal ills.

* Apparently this isn't a word, but it should be.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on October 08, 2017, 06:02:06 am
Ah, emotional appeals
Glad to see nearly 60 dead people doesn't spur you into action

Still havent answered my question of why you want a Bill of Rights assured liberty removed even though there have been less than 1000 deaths by mass shooting in 50 years but keep telling us 500 dead in the past 2 years in europe at the hands of extremists isnt a crisis/major problem
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 10:04:06 am
Of course it's a major problem that's why measures need to be taken against extremism and they will be. But you can't just sit back idly and wait for another mass shooting to occur. I'm done trying to convince you guys because clearly you don't care. You'll be the first to shout tragedy when another one happens and the first to do nothing about it.

And Theodin don't be an arse. You love to cry virtue signalling when you can't think of a proper argument. Clearly we need to prevent people from fucking dying. That's not virtue signalling that's just common fucking sense.

I'm not saying it's possible to get rid of all guns but clearly some restrictions have to be put in place. It's not virtue signalling if I'm talking about hiw the discussion started in the first place. I'm pretty sure the US constitution doesn't state that all weapons must be allowed so maybe a restriction on high capacity magazines, high calibre rifles or something along those lines to try to limit their usage (I don't know guns). In the period that the Iraq war happend. More women were killed with guns by their partners than the US dead in the war. It needs to become harder for potential risks for gun violence to gain access to these weapons. Switzerland has background checks and requires liscenses and this obviously leads to fewer deaths. There have been almost half a million gun deaths in the ISA between the late nineties and 2013. Surely steps must be taken to protect citizens.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on October 08, 2017, 12:30:25 pm
I am actually for the legalisation of Nuclear Warheads.

If everyone has one at home, no one is going to use them, because it would mean nuclear worldwide holocaust. Right? It worked for the US and the USSR, so why not for every citizen?!

I also think that Lebel rifles should be free to own without  licenses in Germany, because I really want one and I can not be bothered to go through all the bureaucratic bullshit to get one.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on October 08, 2017, 03:10:31 pm
Toffee you realize 93 people die by guns on average every day in the US? Should we be forgetting about the majority of them being innocent people as well? Mass shooting occur once a year on average, yes it is an issue but when you look at it from an utopian point of view thousands of people are dying from gun violence (including kids).  It's important to address that first, and the solution is not taking away guns, but again addressing the societal and economic situations which foster that sort of gun culture (as the CDC and Justice studies both validate occur in predominately African American poverished inner cities )
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 08, 2017, 03:13:46 pm
Quote
Mass shooting occur once a year on average

Perfectly acceptable rate, I agree.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 03:15:41 pm
Toffee you realize 93 people die by guns on average every day in the US? Should we be forgetting about the majority of them being innocent people as well? Mass shooting occur once a year on average, yes it is an issue but when you look at it from an utopian point of view thousands of people are dying from gun violence (including kids).  It's important to address that first, and the solution is not taking away guns, but again addressing the societal and economic situations which foster that sort of gun culture (as the CDC and Justice studies both validate occur in predominately African American poverished inner cities )
Yes but both need to be done. Mass shootings happen way too often. You need to take away the means. How are you going to address these issues? Offering better mental health help for people? We both know that won't happen in the US with your healthcare track record.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 03:19:03 pm
Offering better mental health help for people? We both know that won't happen in the US with your healthcare track record.

And your solution is something you know won't happen in the US, with our track record on firearm legislation?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 08, 2017, 03:24:39 pm
Failure to pass legislation in the past is really no argument why no attempt should be made. All new legislation failed before.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 03:30:33 pm
Failure to pass legislation in the past is really no argument why no attempt should be made. All new legislation failed before.
This. Your entire argument Boberton is that is hasn't been done before...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 08, 2017, 03:38:43 pm
Also I'm Dutch, I come from quite a military family so that's why I'm interested in this. Trying to enlist myself aswell.

You'd need to look into our weapons systems then. We do not use the HK417 or 416. We use the Colt Canada C7 NLD and C8 NLD. They're basically canadian modified M16's.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 08, 2017, 03:40:16 pm
Wikipedia says the Commandos get them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 08, 2017, 03:44:10 pm
For someone that is a novice to American gun laws and don't have the gun "culture" I'd say the major issues seem to be the lack of training, the accessibility to assualt rifles, lack of gun storage laws making children/toddlers getting their hands on guns and what Karth mentioned the fearmongering media.

#FreeKurdistan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3XrrbkPk1I
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 08, 2017, 03:48:00 pm
Wikipedia says the Commandos get them.

Yes MARSOF and the Commando\s get them. That's it. But that is what? Two battalions if they're even organic battalion size?


EDIT: NL MARSOF is roughly three companies and the KCT is one battalion, though their units are smaller. So we're talking about 1000 men with access to HK417s.
You can hardly say 'our country uses 417s'with those numbers considering the army is 18.000 strong
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 08, 2017, 03:52:20 pm
Special troops come first, I guess. And given that even they are in a sorry state shows how far-stretched our defunding has been.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 08, 2017, 03:56:19 pm
Nobody cares about the Dutch military.. Go on your Dutch forums and discuss it, please.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 03:58:34 pm
Failure to pass legislation in the past is really no argument why no attempt should be made. All new legislation failed before.
This. Your entire argument Boberton is that is hasn't been done before...

Is that not the base of his argument about American mental health care?

Draconian firearm legislation of the variety you think necessary will never pass in the United States. The environment for it didn't exist when over a dozen school children were killed, nor does it exist now.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 04:05:27 pm
Well maybe that's why you need to look at yourselves. I don't know about you but I don't want to live In a society that doesn't give a shit when kids are gunned down at school or if somebody can't afford the bill for their cancer treatment.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 04:12:19 pm
Not throwing your rights on the pyre isn't a sign that people don't care. It's simply not being stupid. We've done it before, and we're not keen to repeat the mistake.

The stigma against those with mental illness needs to end. People with mental illnesses need access to proper treatment. I think that's something we can all agree on.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 08, 2017, 04:13:56 pm
If you look at the statistics here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate) you can see that even though the US is the densest country on earth when it comes to guns it isn't even close to having the highest gun related homocides it's not just about the guns. Also the majority of deaths are suicides which is more of a mental care issue than a gun issue.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 04:16:44 pm
Lmfao your rights my arse. The constitution was written in the 1700s in regards to militia. It doesn't give everyone the right to bear high powered rifles. It doesn't say anything about restrictions on magazines or on background checks. And as I mentioned before, how are you gonna help these people with mental health issues because the USA has one of the worst healthcare systems in the developed world.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 08, 2017, 04:24:27 pm
I am not against gun ownership per se personally, but what Ican't understand is why people are so imcredubly fucking spastic when it comes to just implementing a simple background check...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 04:26:12 pm
"People" ≠ "Militia"
The former is used in the context of who is granted the right to bear arms, the latter is not.

As to helping those with health issues, we do our best to create the change.

I am not against gun ownership per se personally, but what Ican't understand is why people are so imcredubly fucking spastic when it comes to just implementing a simple background check...

Because the background checks already exist, and we have to explain that to everyone who argues on the topic because they're hilariously misinformed on the state of American firearm law.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on October 08, 2017, 04:27:51 pm
Of course it's a major problem that's why measures need to be taken against extremism and they will be. But you can't just sit back idly and wait for another mass shooting to occur. I'm done trying to convince you guys because clearly you don't care. You'll be the first to shout tragedy when another one happens and the first to do nothing about it.

And Theodin don't be an arse. You love to cry virtue signalling when you can't think of a proper argument. Clearly we need to prevent people from fucking dying. That's not virtue signalling that's just common fucking sense.

I'm not saying it's possible to get rid of all guns but clearly some restrictions have to be put in place. It's not virtue signalling if I'm talking about hiw the discussion started in the first place. I'm pretty sure the US constitution doesn't state that all weapons must be allowed so maybe a restriction on high capacity magazines, high calibre rifles or something along those lines to try to limit their usage (I don't know guns). In the period that the Iraq war happend. More women were killed with guns by their partners than the US dead in the war. It needs to become harder for potential risks for gun violence to gain access to these weapons. Switzerland has background checks and requires liscenses and this obviously leads to fewer deaths. There have been almost half a million gun deaths in the ISA between the late nineties and 2013. Surely steps must be taken to protect citizens.
Wait, I thought you finished trying here, Toffee!

You’re very intellectually dishonest. “You don’t want gun control therefore you don’t care about dead children” is a desipicable and frankly dangerous thing to incinuate. Of course we should avoid mass shootings if possible, but disagreeing about the means to solving a problem is not being pro-problem. But instead you throw around a lot of uncertainties and generalities. What guns should we ban, Toffee? You said you don’t know guns. Why don’t you come up with legislation for us to critique? Or you could just continue acting morally superior because you want to legislate guns.

I also forgot you were a constitutional scholar.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 08, 2017, 04:41:09 pm
Yes they exist, sure. Not everywhere though.

I mean... I was in Salt Lake City this summer and went to the range.
I could, as a foreigner, buy any rifle or pistol I wanted. No background checks involved, I didn't even need to register myself.

Gun ownership is fine when fopr recreation, but don't give me the bullshit argument about protecting yourself from the government. Given that the U.S. government can't even pass proper healthcare laws or educate its people let alone overthrow the democracy and create a dictatorship. Not to even mention the fact that if a dictatorship ever comes to be in the U.S., it'll be self-inflicted and not forced.

The self defense argument is not that strong either. Sure home defense, I can get behind that to some degree, but having a 9mm glock protecting your house or a 7.62 FN SCAR will seriously not make a difference and I hope you can argue that having high powered rifles out and about isn't that ideala situation considering you can blow the tits off of someone with that thing from 800 metres away and there's only so much police weapons can do about that.

Open carry to protect against an active shooter situation? Hilarious. Even police officers, fuck me even regular army infantry personnel aren't equipped and/or trained enough to handle an active shooter event. That's why there are tactical response teams to begin with. And you're telling me 52-year-old uncle Bob from Tennessee,  the old cowboy indoor range tiger, is capable enough to stop a shooter at church on Sunday next week without killing a few more extra innocents? That's not sensible at all.
Besides that, there have already been instances when an active shooter event was happening where civilians were carrying weapons... That turned out to be a significant clusterfuck because as soon as there were multiple armed people out and about nobody knew anymore who the shooter was in the first place.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 04:52:46 pm
I read that less than 1% of violent crimes in the US involve the victim protecting themselves with a gun.

Theodin I did offer examples so clearly you didn't read anything. Typical arse trying to get one up cos somebody is questioning your perceived freedoms. Kids are dying. I didn't say that you wanted it to happen. But you can argue for either gun control or better healthcare for mental health, it doesn't matter because the US is doing neither.

And the Us constitution specifically mentions the necessity of a well regulated militia in regards to the right to bear arms. It's actually pretty ambiguous to be honest. It doesn't say anything about restrictions I'm pretty sure in regards to high powered assault rifles and magazine capacity considering when it was created.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 05:04:31 pm
Yes they exist, sure. Not everywhere though.

I mean... I was in Salt Lake City this summer and went to the range.
I could, as a foreigner, buy any rifle or pistol I wanted. No background checks involved, I didn't even need to register myself.

Bullshit. Federal regulations require all FFLs to run a background check on all firearms sold. Violation of this results in a visit from your friendly neighborhood ATF agents, and a long period of time in a very small room.

Gun ownership is fine when fopr recreation, but don't give me the bullshit argument about protecting yourself from the government. Given that the U.S. government can't even pass proper healthcare laws or educate its people let alone overthrow the democracy and create a dictatorship.

The US can't pass 'proper' healthcare laws because no one agrees on what that is. Education is in a similar situation.

Not to even mention the fact that if a dictatorship ever comes to be in the U.S., it'll be self-inflicted and not forced.

That won't stop people resisting.

The self defense argument is not that strong either. Sure home defense, I can get behind that to some degree, but having a 9mm glock protecting your house or a 7.62 FN SCAR will seriously not make a difference and I hope you can argue that having high powered rifles out and about isn't that ideala situation considering you can blow the tits off of someone with that thing from 800 metres away and there's only so much police weapons can do about that.

Surely as a soldier you recognize the value of an autoloading long arm in the defense. As for 'high powered rifles', hunting arms are more powerful and accurate at ranges exceeding 300 meters than any of the arms many propose banning the ownership of.

Open carry to protect against an active shooter situation? Hilarious. Even police officers, fuck me even regular army infantry personnel aren't equipped and/or trained enough to handle an active shooter event. That's why there are tactical response teams to begin with. And you're telling me 52-year-old uncle Bob from Tennessee,  the old cowboy indoor range tiger, is capable enough to stop a shooter at church on Sunday next week without killing a few more extra innocents? That's not sensible at all.
Besides that, there have already been instances when an active shooter event was happening where civilians were carrying weapons... That turned out to be a significant clusterfuck because as soon as there were multiple armed people out and about nobody knew anymore who the shooter was in the first place.

And yet there are numerous cases in which shootings have been stopped by "52-year-old- uncle Bob from Tennessee, the old cowboy indoor range tiger". Funnily enough, a handful of them have been at churches on Sunday.

And the Us constitution specifically mentions the necessity of a well regulated militia in regards to the right to bear arms. It's actually pretty ambiguous to be honest.

It's really not. Regardless of the preamble, it quite definitively states its purpose.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 05:10:18 pm
Yes it states that people have the right to bear arms. It also precursors that by talking about a regulated militia. Evidently that is quite outdated at the minute so using it as a reason not to regulate high powered rifles/ magazines etc is a bad argument. Nobody is saying that it will be possible to rid the US of every gun. Just that it needs to be more heavily regulated to accommodate for what's going on at the minute. Mental health aid is a long term solution but we need to address the means in order to save lives.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 08, 2017, 05:22:13 pm
The self defense argument is not that strong either. Sure home defense, I can get behind that to some degree, but having a 9mm glock protecting your house or a 7.62 FN SCAR will seriously not make a difference and I hope you can argue that having high powered rifles out and about isn't that ideala situation considering you can blow the tits off of someone with that thing from 800 metres away and there's only so much police weapons can do about that.

Surely as a soldier you recognize the value of an autoloading long arm in the defense.

Yes, at 300 metres, which I really do not see happening inside your home. There is a reason carbines are preferred in CQB and why the MP5 is an extremely popular weapon with SOF and SWAT in clearing houses. If the option is there, soldiers carring rifles would swtich to sidearm in clearing houses. Not only because of a rifle being cumbersome, but also because 9mm is less prone to go through walls, killing innocents.

Hunting rifles are awesome at htting at long range with minimal collateral damage (also depending on the rounds you would use, ofc) but they're quite shit at mowing down a crowd.


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 05:34:50 pm
9mm is actually more dangerous to people on the other side of a wall than 5.56, when they do penetrate.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 05:39:45 pm
Not an expert but which penetrates more?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 05:41:57 pm
9mm. Higher mass, inertia, all that. 5.56 will maintain its penetration abilities at a longer range, but closer to the muzzle the 9 shines in that regard. Which is weird, because you don't expect it to work like that, and obviously materials designed to catch rounds will work better on 9mm, but that's physics for you.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 08, 2017, 05:52:52 pm
from what I understood, the 5.56 is more like to punch thourgh something and something thicker than the 9mm, but if the 9mm does, it will cause more damage if it hits someone.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 05:56:59 pm
You've probably got the right on that one.

I am by no means any kind of expert on ballistics.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on October 08, 2017, 06:01:52 pm
Bullets that stay in the body are the most deadly, if it'd pass right through then it's easier to take care of.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 08, 2017, 06:23:39 pm
Yup and 9mm are renowned for a lot of stopping power for its size.
Then again, 5.56 are mean basterds as well. Usually they start spinning when they hit a body, though not as mean as othe types of bullets.

7.62's just punch big holes and is the best suitable for long range precision shooting.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on October 08, 2017, 07:28:03 pm
I mean... I was in Salt Lake City this summer and went to the range.
I could, as a foreigner, buy any rifle or pistol I wanted. No background checks involved, I didn't even need to register myself.

No you couldn't have. Renting a gun for use on the range is not purchasing it to take home. Additionally, all the people recently posting in this thread about the lack of background checks just go to show why gun owners are so vehemently against you, because you know positively nothing about the laws pertaining to gun procurement nor how they actually work. This last sentence isn't directed to you directly.

7.62's just punch big holes and is the best suitable for long range precision shooting.

If that were the case the Russians would not have adopted a new caliber for their small arms more akin to the 5.56x45 NATO.

Yes it states that people have the right to bear arms. It also precursors that by talking about a regulated militia. Evidently that is quite outdated at the minute so using it as a reason not to regulate high powered rifles/ magazines etc is a bad argument.

The fact the Federal Government now has a massive, standing army - no longer relying on militias - does not make the Second Ammendment defunct. The Ammendment states that the free citizenry must be allowed to possess adequate arms as it is important for the States, not the Federal government, to be able to raise its own well armed militia should the threat arise from either without or within the Nation.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 07:32:29 pm
You seriously think states are gonna raise a militia in 2017?
And I've read that only federal law requires background checks for liscensed sale but not for private sales. Only nine states have universal background checks
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on October 08, 2017, 07:42:06 pm
The standard 5.56x45 round with the 62 grain steel core projectile masses about 200 grams.  The standard 7.62x51 round with a 147 grain projectile masses about twice that.  A 10kG loadout of 5.56 is about 660 rounds.  10kG of 7.62 is about 280 rounds (including magazines).  So, logistically, you can transport MORE than twice the number of 5.56 rounds for the same weight.

The 7.62 is, without a doubt, more lethal.  Double?  How do you quantify that?

Accuracy at <300 meters is about equal.  Beyond 300 meters, the 7.62 is superior.

Don't have any information regarding cookoff, but I'd imagine they're similar.

The 5.56 is considerably less expensive per cartridge - to the tune of about half the cost of 7.62 or less.


TLDR, 7.62 is more lethal and better on long range than the 5.56 but requires more effort for logistics to transport, also it's more expensive.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 07:48:25 pm
Also if background checks are adequate then how did a mentally ill bloke get hold of those guns?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on October 08, 2017, 07:53:48 pm
5.56 and the new Russian 5.45 holds its velocity better, and the rounds advantages (distilled down can just be "you can have much more of it") make it the superior general purpose military round. The age of the battle rifle, with its full-powered cartridges, has passed and has been surpassed by the age of the assault rifle with its intermediate cartridge. Warfare has not been based around the precise shooting at individual targets for some time now; rather, it is now based on saturating an area with suppressing fire while other elements maneuver.

My statement on the rounds were based around this more military reasoning for the cartridges, and I now realize that we probably weren't talking about it in that regard - my apologies.

Also if background checks are adequate then how did a mentally ill bloke get hold of those guns?

Probably because the check didn't find anything incriminating. Also let's not be disingenuous about what I said. I was correcting everyone saying that there are no background checks, which is categorically false; rather or not they are adequate is a different story.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on October 08, 2017, 07:57:04 pm
You seriously think states are gonna raise a militia in 2017?
And I've read that only federal law requires background checks for liscensed sale but not for private sales. Only nine states have universal background checks
The states could easily raise militias, whether it be some form of the states national guard, a combination of ex-police/military, or just concerned citizens.
There are close to 300 million legal guns in the US - if a situation arose where it was needed for any state to raise a militia they could do it, and most probably would, too
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 07:57:30 pm
Well if the check didn't find anything incriminating then it was a damn shitty check. You came in patronising people for not knowing gun laws. Don't try and frame it as though you were only pointing out that there are already background checks because, in some cases there aren't.

Theodin, genuine question. Would it be legal?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on October 08, 2017, 07:57:51 pm
You seriously think states are gonna raise a militia in 2017?
And I've read that only federal law requires background checks for liscensed sale but not for private sales. Only nine states have universal background checks
Michigan has a militia. Its pretty small. Only a couple hundred people are active, with more as reserves.

Also if background checks are adequate then how did a mentally ill bloke get hold of those guns?
Sometimes people show no signs of mental illness and have no previous symptoms. As someone who actually believes in background checks, they can only do so much
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 08:02:15 pm
A number of states have state defense forces, which fall under the heading "militia"

Well if the check didn't find anything incriminating then it was a damn shitty check. You came in patronising people for not knowing gun laws. Don't try and frame it as though you were only pointing out that there are already background checks because, in some cases there aren't.

What do you propose they do, open the person's skull and read their brain? We can only judge people based on what they show us, in what they say and do, and it's quite possible for someone to be completely normal until they're not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 08:02:36 pm
Ah right okay. Though that isn't a very good argument against some restrictions because of its unlikely to happen.

I've read that none of the background checks he went through involved his mental health but I don't know if that's true
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on October 08, 2017, 08:04:21 pm
Every background check involves your mental health. That's one of the items they specifically check.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on October 08, 2017, 08:04:37 pm
You seriously think states are gonna raise a militia in 2017?

I didn't see this. The amusing thing is that States do currently have militias currently, though they're legislatively called State Defense Forces. Texas' is the most impressive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_State_Guard), with six regiments, two air wings, various engineer battalions, a Medical brigade and a maritime regiment for coastal patrols.

Additionally, rather or not they would is irrelevant; it's a right afforded to the States. Rights exist rather you exercise them or not, and rather you need them or not.

You came in patronising people for not knowing gun laws.


Probably because there are people spouting strong opinions with fallacious information to base said opinions on.

Don't try and frame it as though you were only pointing out that there are already background checks because, in some cases there aren't.

For private sales between to citizens, there is not a requirement. That does not make a statement of "there are no background checks" correct.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 08:09:27 pm
Yes but why does that mean citizens need to privately own rifles? Can't they become property of the state?

From what I've read citizens are put through the NICS system but that doesn't correlate to a direct mental health evaluation.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 08, 2017, 08:40:47 pm
Most US mass shootings are carried out by the mentally ill (individual shootings on the other hand are mostly down to gang violence). They were very rare in American society pre-1970 despite high levels of gun ownership and even laxer gun control laws than now. If you look at the timeline comparing deinstitutionalisation of the mentally ill and US mass shooting events then the correlation is very obvious. The solution is to start building more mental hospitals and put people in them.

Anyone advocating US gun control needs to explain how that could work in a society a) with more guns than people, and b) where gun culture is heavily embedded.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 08, 2017, 08:53:32 pm
Okay, so like I said it's a choice between better healthcare or gun control. Both of which the US seem to struggle grasping.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 08, 2017, 11:15:53 pm

If that were the case the Russians would not have adopted a new caliber for their small arms more akin to the 5.56x45 NATO.

I am quite fine with you schooling me in Gun laws in the U.S., but I'd urge you to think further than only what a round does in terms of its capacity to kill people.

7.62 rifles are higher powered, requiring... well... more actual rifle, which means more weight, which means more fatigue and it means less accurate shots in an enduring firefight and a more cumbersome rifle. Considering war is increasingly fought in ubran areas 5.56 rounds are more suitable. The only thing 5.56 does not make itself useful is when fighting thugs in the desert armed with AKs shooting double the distance almost all 5.56 rifles do. so yes, it is sensible that Russia is swtiching to 5.56

And yes, that still makes 7.62 the most suitable for precision shootingm there are still Designated Marksmen and snipers and sharpshooters and 7.62 is still the best round from them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on October 11, 2017, 10:20:23 am
I would say, the AK with 5.45 round is more deadlier than a 7.62 one, so you have to match 5.56 with 5.45 round, not 7.62.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on October 11, 2017, 10:22:14 am
I would say, the AK with 5.45 round is more deadlier than a 7.62 one, so you have to match 5.56 with 5.45 round, not 7.62.
Trust Ukrainians, after all who else has more experience with fighting AK's  ::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on October 11, 2017, 10:28:11 am
tfw in the Czech election the guy from the party leading the polls owns the largest Czech media company :>
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Nero_ on October 11, 2017, 10:35:45 am
still dre day nigga
ak nigga
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on October 11, 2017, 10:41:17 am
still dre day nigga
ak nigga
inb4 muted again. You don't care about your life do you nero?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on October 11, 2017, 10:52:09 am
On AK you dont have to switch to 5.56 when you have 5.45, it's obvious. Also, tfw when someone calls AK usefull for a long range firefight. AK is very unstable in accuracy, also it has major problems after firing 2-3 mags - accuracy drops so much.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Nero_ on October 11, 2017, 10:55:01 am
muh one teps in csgo :D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on October 11, 2017, 10:59:25 am
On AK you dont have to switch to 5.56 when you have 5.45, it's obvious. Also, tfw when someone calls AK usefull for a long range firefight. AK is very unstable in accuracy, also it has major problems after firing 2-3 mags - accuracy drops so much.
I agree, Short-Medium combat range AK is the coolest weapon :P
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 11, 2017, 12:14:45 pm
I think I the debate over which ammunition is better has become slightly off topic
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on October 11, 2017, 12:28:00 pm
I think I the debate over which ammunition is better has become slightly off topic
Communism did nothing wrong.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 11, 2017, 01:12:51 pm
I think I the debate over which ammunition is better has become slightly off topic
Communism did nothing wrong.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: fruitocino on October 11, 2017, 01:31:17 pm
tfw in the Czech election the guy from the party leading the polls owns the largest Czech media company :>
I don't see a problem xxxxxx
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on October 11, 2017, 02:08:57 pm
tfw in the Czech election the guy from the party leading the polls owns the largest Czech media company :>
I don't see a problem xxxxxx
::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 11, 2017, 03:06:02 pm
Also, tfw when someone calls AK usefull for a long range firefight. AK is very unstable in accuracy, also it has major problems after firing 2-3 mags


I didn't say AK are in particular good for long range, but it was experience quite often by coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan that they were often outranged by AK fire. Don't forget that for a firefight it is never expected to have pinpoint accuracy. The point of fighting in groups is that you put suppressive fire downrange. You''l hit someone eventually when you get close enough. The AK can still be reasonably accurate at 600 metres, with a max range of suppressive fire at 800 metres. Sure that would require a skilled shooter, which terrorists usually are anything but. It was still prblematic considering the M4 has an effective range of 300-400 metres and suppressive fire at a max of roughly 600
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on October 11, 2017, 04:41:30 pm

I didn't say AK are in particular good for long range, but it was experience quite often by coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan that they were often outranged by AK fire. Don't forget that for a firefight it is never expected to have pinpoint accuracy. The point of fighting in groups is that you put suppressive fire downrange. You''l hit someone eventually when you get close enough. The AK can still be reasonably accurate at 600 metres, with a max range of suppressive fire at 800 metres. Sure that would require a skilled shooter, which terrorists usually are anything but. It was still prblematic considering the M4 has an effective range of 300-400 metres and suppressive fire at a max of roughly 600
Yes, Iraqi forces were good with those AK, because they used tactics of shooting just where they were looking at. But yes, the poing of AK is to provide suppressive fire. But AK cant stand for a long time shooting, after 2 mags you experince weird bullet drop.
Personally, from my field of view and from my personal skill of using AK-74 i can tell it's a good reliable weapon, so far it has it's own problems just like any other rifle.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on October 11, 2017, 05:10:58 pm
Also, tfw when someone calls AK usefull for a long range firefight. AK is very unstable in accuracy, also it has major problems after firing 2-3 mags


I didn't say AK are in particular good for long range, but it was experience quite often by coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan that they were often outranged by AK fire. Don't forget that for a firefight it is never expected to have pinpoint accuracy. The point of fighting in groups is that you put suppressive fire downrange. You''l hit someone eventually when you get close enough. The AK can still be reasonably accurate at 600 metres, with a max range of suppressive fire at 800 metres. Sure that would require a skilled shooter, which terrorists usually are anything but. It was still prblematic considering the M4 has an effective range of 300-400 metres and suppressive fire at a max of roughly 600

This is why I suggest reintroducing the Charleville into military service. Cal.69 is great. It has a effective range of 90 meters and suppressive fire at a max 0 meters. Suppressing is difficult if you can only get 1 shot out every 30 seconds. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 11, 2017, 05:31:58 pm
The US Army I believe is looking into reintroducing the 7.62 round as a standard issue round for the grunts.
Seems like they're falling back into time with that... there were, and still are, good reasons to switch to 5.56.

The problem the US army has is that they don't really have a weapons on the squad that quite gets the job done at 600 metres...
It is strange because no other military seems to have a problem as bad as that... Or willing to change to combat it, perhaps.

Question for people who know this, is the M240 still a crew-served weapon that is carried by a squad? or is that just the M249?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 11, 2017, 10:01:24 pm
Discussing political ideologies is apparently "off-topic", but this gun nut orgy isn't!  ;D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on October 11, 2017, 10:13:01 pm
Guns go after politics and diplomacy, so why not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on October 12, 2017, 11:02:35 am
The US Army I believe is looking into reintroducing the 7.62 round as a standard issue round for the grunts.
Seems like they're falling back into time with that... there were, and still are, good reasons to switch to 5.56.

The problem the US army has is that they don't really have a weapons on the squad that quite gets the job done at 600 metres...
It is strange because no other military seems to have a problem as bad as that... Or willing to change to combat it, perhaps.

Question for people who know this, is the M240 still a crew-served weapon that is carried by a squad? or is that just the M249?

For this reason I suggest introducing the 4 pounder cannon into the squad level. A small mortar might also do the job.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on October 12, 2017, 11:37:46 am
The US Army I believe is looking into reintroducing the 7.62 round as a standard issue round for the grunts.
Seems like they're falling back into time with that... there were, and still are, good reasons to switch to 5.56.

The problem the US army has is that they don't really have a weapons on the squad that quite gets the job done at 600 metres...
It is strange because no other military seems to have a problem as bad as that... Or willing to change to combat it, perhaps.

Question for people who know this, is the M240 still a crew-served weapon that is carried by a squad? or is that just the M249?


For this reason I suggest introducing the 4 pounder cannon into the squad level. A small mortar might also do the job.
Also, implementation of swords and sabres as individual cold weapon. Also the attachment of horses for armoured units and artillery.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on October 12, 2017, 02:36:41 pm
Exactly. Horses never run out of fuel! And donkeys or ponies can easily navigate in mountainous terrain.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 12, 2017, 03:29:18 pm
So can helicopters...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on October 12, 2017, 03:38:22 pm
So can helicopters...
Pf, who needs heli when you have a vintage animals in use  ::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on October 12, 2017, 03:43:26 pm
The US Army I believe is looking into reintroducing the 7.62 round as a standard issue round for the grunts.
Seems like they're falling back into time with that... there were, and still are, good reasons to switch to 5.56.

The problem the US army has is that they don't really have a weapons on the squad that quite gets the job done at 600 metres...
It is strange because no other military seems to have a problem as bad as that... Or willing to change to combat it, perhaps.

Question for people who know this, is the M240 still a crew-served weapon that is carried by a squad? or is that just the M249?
We already use the M4 Carbines and M16s 5.56, haven't heard about switching to 7.62 (Idk why we would).  M240's atleast in the Air Force are on our UH-1s, I know the M249 is def squad carried, but I've heard that marines are replacing it with M27's

So can helicopters...
Pf, who needs heli when you have a vintage animals in use  ::)
Lol a M61 Vulcan shredding vintage cavalry would be a glorious sight
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on October 12, 2017, 03:46:22 pm
On good point NATO has the unified ammo. And here in squad we got both 7.62 and 5.45 rifles, which cause ammo sharing problems.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on October 12, 2017, 03:51:59 pm
So can helicopters...
Pf, who needs heli when you have a vintage animals in use  ::)
Lol a M61 Vulcan shredding vintage cavalry would be a glorious sight
No jokes, in combat rules and regulations we have a statement which says - every mechanised and armoured brigade must have horses attached to it lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 12, 2017, 06:18:02 pm
I looked into it a bit more and I seems that the M240 is still used frequently by army squads... I figured it might have been one of the causes why the  Army would consider switching to a 7.62 rifle. If they have not a single weapon on-squad with longer range it is indeed hard to counter enemies with such rifles.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on October 12, 2017, 09:37:17 pm
I looked into it a bit more and I seems that the M240 is still used frequently by army squads... I figured it might have been one of the causes why the  Army would consider switching to a 7.62 rifle. If they have not a single weapon on-squad with longer range it is indeed hard to counter enemies with such rifles.

Which is where my donkey mounted 12pdr mountain howitzer would come in handy!

So can helicopters...

But can helicopters climb a narrow mountain path? NO!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on October 12, 2017, 11:14:33 pm


So can helicopters...

But can helicopters climb a narrow mountain path? NO!
[/quote]

Did you ever think of a helicopter with wheels?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 12, 2017, 11:18:41 pm
This became a bit of a shitpost lmao
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 14, 2017, 01:59:12 am
The Iraqi government have left the Kurds with a 6 point ultimatum (the main point being to give up the oil rich city of Kirkuk to the Iraqi government) the six points needs to be fulfilled before monday, apparently there's also been gunfire at the borders tonight.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 14, 2017, 02:10:31 am
Illegal referendums usually don't end well
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 14, 2017, 02:16:15 am
They'd want Kirkuk back either way.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 14, 2017, 01:39:55 pm
Kurds can beat the Iraqi military no problem, but they can't beat Iran and/or Turkey. Obviously there's going to be a war so the outcome depends on which way the West jumps and also what Saudi Arabia decides to do. Given they're going to be attacked on all sides they're going to need to do an Israel. I reckon Saudi/West will stay out and the Kurds will be beaten quickly.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 14, 2017, 06:58:04 pm
The West is going to support stability in the region. Western militaries know that iraq as a country is never going to happen again, wihch hopefully will trickle down to politics.

The West has the safest and most sustainable ally in the Kurds, tohugh let's just hope Turkey won't go tits up.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 14, 2017, 07:17:06 pm
The West is going to support stability in the region. Western militaries know that iraq as a country is never going to happen again, wihch hopefully will trickle down to politics.

The West has the safest and most sustainable ally in the Kurds, tohugh let's just hope Turkey won't go tits up.

Not sure I understand-West will have to choose between Turkey and Kurdistan, so they'll probably take the third option which is sit back and see what happens. There's no good options, it's bound to lead to a major war, and it makes no sense for us to get involved.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 14, 2017, 10:13:58 pm
Sit back and Iraw will probably deteriorate into another war between the State of Iraq and the Kurds, considering the Kurds WILL NOT let go of the territory they have now. Another war in the same region is not beneficial to the West, though Turkey will simply tolerate an independant Kurdistan.

The West will have to take a side. Maybe it will even end up in Turkey gaining some land...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 15, 2017, 07:58:23 pm
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/harvey-weinstein-islam-sexual-assault-rape-womens-rights-a8001521.html

A must read!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 16, 2017, 11:12:10 am
Ah yes the proven islamic model, what a meme.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 16, 2017, 05:00:29 pm
Kurds can beat the Iraqi military no problem

Guess not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on October 16, 2017, 05:00:36 pm
Biggest meme of the week:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-korea-us-attack-emp-power-grid-kill-90-per-cent-american-population-electromagnetic-pulse-a8002756.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 16, 2017, 05:31:02 pm
Ah yes the proven islamic model, what a meme.
Biggest meme of the week:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-korea-us-attack-emp-power-grid-kill-90-per-cent-american-population-electromagnetic-pulse-a8002756.html

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/853fe73458d8a24387ff87d2fcd61eb6.jpg)
[close]

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 16, 2017, 06:41:51 pm
Kurds can beat the Iraqi military no problem

Guess not.

The fighting has literally just started and Iran has already sent Shi'a militias under Qassem Soleimani into Kurdistan. If it was a straight fight between Iraq and the Kurds the former would lose, but it's not since Iran has thousands of militia pouring into the region.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on October 16, 2017, 10:24:01 pm
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/16/iraq-seizes-territory-from-kurdish-forces/ (http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/16/iraq-seizes-territory-from-kurdish-forces/)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on October 16, 2017, 11:19:26 pm
Biggest meme of the week:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-korea-us-attack-emp-power-grid-kill-90-per-cent-american-population-electromagnetic-pulse-a8002756.html

Are all americans robots, or how the hell are 90% of all americans going to die by shutting down the power grid?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on October 16, 2017, 11:23:42 pm
Biggest meme of the week:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-korea-us-attack-emp-power-grid-kill-90-per-cent-american-population-electromagnetic-pulse-a8002756.html

Are all americans robots, or how the hell are 90% of all americans going to die by shutting down the power grid?
I envy your ability to be oblivious of your dependance on the power grid
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: fruitocino on October 17, 2017, 12:02:04 am
Biggest meme of the week:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-korea-us-attack-emp-power-grid-kill-90-per-cent-american-population-electromagnetic-pulse-a8002756.html

Are all americans robots, or how the hell are 90% of all americans going to die by shutting down the power grid?
I envy your ability to be oblivious of your dependance on the power grid
They can't get you if you wear a tinfoil hat!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 17, 2017, 02:15:30 pm
Kurds can beat the Iraqi military no problem

Guess not.

Tbf most of the Peshmerga was ordered to stand down.
What's ludicrous is that reportadely the Iraqi militia group known as Hashd al-Shaabi decapitated 10 Peshmerga fighters.

(Edit: apparently this was reported by Kurdish media so it could be biased/fake news)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on October 17, 2017, 03:50:35 pm
Can we all agree to not use the stupid god damn term fake news. Its not fake news, if it's untrue then it's a lie
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on October 17, 2017, 06:10:03 pm
Biggest meme of the week:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-korea-us-attack-emp-power-grid-kill-90-per-cent-american-population-electromagnetic-pulse-a8002756.html

Are all americans robots, or how the hell are 90% of all americans going to die by shutting down the power grid?
I envy your ability to be oblivious of your dependance on the power grid

While it certainly would be more difficult without a power grid, not all electronic devices will be rendered completely useless due to an EMP attack.
Most vehicles and especially heavy and older trucks will be able to resist an EMP attack too. This means, while it would be more difficult to transport food around, it would still be possible. It is also not like you can not repair stuff after an EMP attack.

Getting fuel would be the most difficult task, as most pumps in fuel stations will break, but since fuel is one of the most important things, I am sure people will quickly set on repairing those, to make sure that goods and people can be transported around.
90% seems way to high. Sure people would die, most likely people would also starve due to food shortages, but 90% is ridiculous.

Besides that, how the hell are you supposed to kill the entire US power grid all at once.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 17, 2017, 08:04:58 pm
The Tsar Bomba of EMPs will do =D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on October 17, 2017, 09:39:44 pm
Well yes, 90 percent is a bit high
When I was in Washington a couple years ago I attended a congressional hearing about this stuff addressing the risk EMP’s pose to the power stations themselves. It was explained like a railway system - destroy a few railway stations in a network and your network fractures.
Really makes me hope US military command nodes are isolated from the main grid
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on October 18, 2017, 12:08:15 pm
The entire system is build to withstand a major nuclear attack. Or at least it was 30 years ago.
I am sure the government will do fine.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 18, 2017, 01:08:26 pm
The military will not be completely seperate from the grid, consdiring it's too expensive to keep it compeltely seperate. They will however have outlets, back-ups installed and core systes will be seperate. So government communication will still be a thing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on October 18, 2017, 03:00:40 pm
The entire system is build to withstand a major nuclear attack. Or at least it was 30 years ago.
I am sure the government will do fine.
The military yes, the electrical grid? I don’t think so, especially the never equipment
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on October 18, 2017, 05:00:08 pm
Yes, ofc.

What I was trying to say is what Riddlez said, There are backups for the military and government in place to keep everything going even after a nuclear disaster. The question is how up to date these plans are. For example I know that they had them in Germany in the 80s and stuff, but after the fall of the soviet union, I think it all collapsed. I believe no one is keeping this stuff up to date, and I am pretty sure that if something like that were to happen right now, it would be way worse than if it would have happened in the 80s.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 18, 2017, 05:49:51 pm
Command structure in major military countries will almost definitely be kept up to date. Not just because of EMP strikes but also because a system not connected to the grid is unhackable unless you were to gain physical access.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on October 18, 2017, 05:54:11 pm
That is true. But I doubt that the agency responsible for lets say, agriculture is very up to date on this kind of problem. And that is a problem, because something like that is just as important as the military.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on October 18, 2017, 08:04:06 pm
A few years ago, when I was thinking of joining the Army instead, they had so many radiological and nuclear specialist MOS roles available, damned if I actually followed through on that (and you need atleast a 90 on ASVAB I'm pretty sure to be considered for them)

But military is prepared, although certain readiness tests didn't have expected results, but I'm sure they are actively making sure all defense systems and capabilities are up to date.  Actually there was a documentary on all this, on history channel or something
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on October 18, 2017, 08:08:20 pm
Now that we talk of EMP's, I'm pretty sure the world would descend into anarchy if a solar flare hit the globe and knocked out all the electronics seeing as how dependent everything is on them from the world market to militaries.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on October 18, 2017, 09:05:06 pm
Except solar flares are only half as deadly as people want to think they are.

Simply orienting your car into a different direction could already save it from frying. Solar flares are not thaaat bad.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 20, 2017, 06:58:04 pm
Are all americans robots, or how the hell are 90% of all americans going to die by shutting down the power grid?

It'll disable all the electronic insulin dispensers
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on October 21, 2017, 11:31:11 am
And then people will just get injections. It's not hard, millions of people just jab themselves several times a day and there's already a massive number of diabetic specialists and nurses around, so you just run group sessions teaching people how to inject. Pretty straightforward. The loss of pacemakers would be FAR worse, as you can't just manually replace them and fitting each new one would take an operation in and of itself. Diabetes is the least of your worries.

It would be awful to deal with for sure, but it'd more be devastating from an infrastructure and economic meltdown point of view than people dying directly from it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on October 22, 2017, 01:42:39 pm
It was a joke, Tiki.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on October 31, 2017, 11:58:25 pm
It's Halloween and the politics thread is back from the dead with another terrorist attack!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/31/nyc-terror-attack-leaves-8-dead-several-injured.html

- At least 8 dead
- Driver was initially shot by the police and has been taken into custody

In other news, which is actually quite relevant in regards to Islamic extremist in the west:

Quote
Terror suspects including jihadis returning from fighting in Syria are to be offered taxpayer-funded homes, counselling and help finding jobs to stop them carrying out attacks in Britain.

The top-secret Government strategy, codenamed Operation Constrain, could even allow fanatics to jump to the top of council house waiting lists.

Official documents seen by The Mail on Sunday reveal that up to 20,000 extremists previously investigated by MI5 will be targeted with what critics last night described as ‘bribes’ aimed at turning them away from extremism.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5027683/Council-house-bribes-UK-terror-suspects.html

What a fantastic conservative government! #Tories2020
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 02, 2017, 03:42:26 pm
Ignoring people's feelings completely, this is actually a very smart solution
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 02, 2017, 07:21:51 pm
Not really, and now Gavin Williamson has been appointed Defence Secretary! Yet another disastrous decision to add to May's ever-increasing collection.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on November 02, 2017, 08:06:04 pm
Ignoring peoples feelings basic logic that anyone fanatical enough to kill innocent men, women, and children for their interpretation of islam will never be dissuaded by material goods (what is a house compared to eternal gifts from Allah?) completely, this is actually a very smart solution

Corrected that
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 02, 2017, 10:11:00 pm
OKay, so as a government, you have a returned jihadi. You kind of want to know what he or she is up to when theyre back in your country and youre kind of that they want to kill more people.

What better way to keep an eye on them is to put them in a location of your choosing (in other words, social housing in te middle of Dundee, Scotland, so no chance of there being fellow radicals). You can bug the shit out the house and basically keep an eye on the jihadi almost all the time. That also increases the chance of getting to know his or her network.

If this isnt entirely the case and the jihadi has returned slightly cured of his ISIS zealotry, it may be a decent shot at reintregration thereby making sure attacks dont happen too.


I get that it goes against a more conservative approach of people having to be punished for what theyve done, but youre not going to stop radicalisation if you just put them in a cell. This is controversial, but pragmatic.
Dont forget these kinds of decisions arent usually made by politicians, but by the intelligence services. They kind of know what theyre doing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on November 02, 2017, 11:19:14 pm
Or ship them to Guantanamo bay  8)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on November 02, 2017, 11:26:23 pm
I personally believe that the only way to fight jihadits - is to send them directly to 72 virgins.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 02, 2017, 11:40:20 pm
Even I hate the thought of letting known terrorists into the country. Isn’t that the entire point of what we’re trying to stop. How many attackers have been known to intelligence services but haven’t been able to be stopped. You’re playing a dangerous game by using people’s lives as bait just so you can catch the criminal in the act. Terrorists don’t deserve to be rehabilitated. It’s not pragmatic at all, it’s lunacy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 03, 2017, 08:14:09 am
known terrorists

Suspected terrorists. If they were known terrorists, they'd be in prison
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phoen!x on November 03, 2017, 12:59:51 pm
known terrorists

Suspected terrorists. If they were known terrorists, they'd be in prison

Well thats pretty much the problem we'd have with the entirety of your proposal above. It's legally kind of impossible to really do something before something has happened.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 03, 2017, 03:34:40 pm
OKay, so as a government, you have a returned jihadi. You kind of want to know what he or she is up to when theyre back in your country and youre kind of that they want to kill more people.

What better way to keep an eye on them is to put them in a location of your choosing (in other words, social housing in te middle of Dundee, Scotland, so no chance of there being fellow radicals). You can bug the shit out the house and basically keep an eye on the jihadi almost all the time. That also increases the chance of getting to know his or her network.

If this isnt entirely the case and the jihadi has returned slightly cured of his ISIS zealotry, it may be a decent shot at reintregration thereby making sure attacks dont happen too.


I get that it goes against a more conservative approach of people having to be punished for what theyve done, but youre not going to stop radicalisation if you just put them in a cell. This is controversial, but pragmatic.
Dont forget these kinds of decisions arent usually made by politicians, but by the intelligence services. They kind of know what theyre doing.

I sincerely hope you're playing devil's advocate.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on November 03, 2017, 03:36:51 pm
Burn them, burn them all
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 03, 2017, 04:07:09 pm
known terrorists

Suspected terrorists. If they were known terrorists, they'd be in prison
And these suspected terrorists often get away with what they were planning because they haven’t been watched close enough. The bloke who carried out the London attack was known to MI5 and that didn’t help much.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on November 04, 2017, 01:01:34 am
This may hurt someone, but i'm personally extremly against muslims polluting lands of Europe.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 04, 2017, 01:49:26 am
OKay, so as a government, you have a returned jihadi. You kind of want to know what he or she is up to when theyre back in your country and youre kind of that they want to kill more people.

What better way to keep an eye on them is to put them in a location of your choosing (in other words, social housing in te middle of Dundee, Scotland, so no chance of there being fellow radicals). You can bug the shit out the house and basically keep an eye on the jihadi almost all the time. That also increases the chance of getting to know his or her network.

If this isnt entirely the case and the jihadi has returned slightly cured of his ISIS zealotry, it may be a decent shot at reintregration thereby making sure attacks dont happen too.


I get that it goes against a more conservative approach of people having to be punished for what theyve done, but youre not going to stop radicalisation if you just put them in a cell. This is controversial, but pragmatic.
Dont forget these kinds of decisions arent usually made by politicians, but by the intelligence services. They kind of know what theyre doing.

I sincerely hope you're playing devil's advocate.

Anyone who joined ISIS was *at the very least* accessory to genocide and ethnic cleansing, probably the worst crimes against humanity it's possible to commit. Do you seriously think it's morally defensible to let them go free, let alone pay them off? Personally I think they should be put in front of a firing squad and they should be charged for the bullets.

The idea is ludicrous anyway-security services are already stretched thin keeping an eye on suspects and this will make the situation even worse. And think how embarrassing it will be when, after all this is over and the truth/reconciliation process begins, it emerges that that the British Government has been dishing out benefits to people who are now being sought after by the international courts in connection to genocide. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 06, 2017, 08:39:50 pm
I can actually sympathise with the rational side of giving them housing. It's effective.
You have to take into account that the intelligence community thinks about this completely rationally and really doesn't give a shit what the public thinks about their plans.
So long as they catch terrorists (which they do, more than you'd like to know) they don't give a shit about what people think.
And it does work, you can't really deny that. You just think it's morally deplorable. You're not wrong, but as I said, the Intel community doesn't really take that into account.


And these suspected terrorists often get away with what they were planning because they haven’t been watched close enough. The bloke who carried out the London attack was known to MI5 and that didn’t help much.

Different point. The dude from the London attack wasn't a returnee from Syria/Iraq. They had, in their eyes, little to go on and put him under strict surveillance. A returned fighter and suspected terrorist is per definition a national security threat, warranting further surveillance. I wouldn't be suprised if the laws already exist that they can just put them under surveillance.



This may hurt someone, but i'm personally extremly against muslims polluting lands of Europe.
If you can't contribute anything but trash talk and generalise, you should probably just fuck off.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on November 06, 2017, 08:50:04 pm
This may hurt someone, but i'm personally extremly against muslims polluting lands of Europe.
If you can't contribute anything but trash talk and generalise, you should probably just fuck off.
I do contribute some, actually.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 06, 2017, 09:41:22 pm
I can actually sympathise with the rational side of giving them housing. It's effective.
You have to take into account that the intelligence community thinks about this completely rationally and really doesn't give a shit what the public thinks about their plans.
So long as they catch terrorists (which they do, more than you'd like to know) they don't give a shit about what people think.
And it does work, you can't really deny that. You just think it's morally deplorable. You're not wrong, but as I said, the Intel community doesn't really take that into account.

Do you have any evidence to prove it's effective? Considering the intelligence services are stretched thin enough as it is and they do in fact care about giving public money to genocide enablers (at least in the UK) that can't possibly be true. Given most terrorist attacks are carried out by people already known to police/intelligence services it makes no sense to do what you're proposing. There simply aren't the resources to fully check what these people are up to.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 06, 2017, 09:57:20 pm
Point is that it's very hard to prove membership of a terrorist organisations (because they don't exacttly keep archives) or that they commited warcrimes. Pretty much all returnee's claim to have been a humitarian aid worker or a nurse and you can't imprison someone based on a likelihood. I mean, stupid rule of law, amirite?

 That being said, we don't know how many terrorist attacks have been avoided by the security forces. Quite a lot, apparantly. And in the Netherlands, someone just got convicted for plotting a terrorist attack. So when the case is there, they do go to jail.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 06, 2017, 10:06:50 pm
I can actually sympathise with the rational side of giving them housing. It's effective.
You have to take into account that the intelligence community thinks about this completely rationally and really doesn't give a shit what the public thinks about their plans.
So long as they catch terrorists (which they do, more than you'd like to know) they don't give a shit about what people think.
And it does work, you can't really deny that. You just think it's morally deplorable. You're not wrong, but as I said, the Intel community doesn't really take that into account.

Do you have any evidence to prove it's effective? Considering the intelligence services are stretched thin enough as it is and they do in fact care about giving public money to genocide enablers (at least in the UK) that can't possibly be true. Given most terrorist attacks are carried out by people already known to police/intelligence services it makes no sense to do what you're proposing. There simply aren't the resources to fully check what these people are up to.
Exactly this. The benefits systems are stretched thin as it is. Are we gonna give money to terrorists over innocent people. If we let terrorists back into the UK you're asking for something to happen. It's like playing bait with the public. The United Kingdom's policy is no negotiation with terrorists. There can't be any leeway.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 06, 2017, 10:15:52 pm
But they're not terrorists. They are suspected terrorists, which gives security services justifications for certain actions. If there is enough proof to convict them, they will. But no judge will convict someone of terrorism just because the prosecution can prove he or she visited IS-controlled area. This isn't a political issue.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 06, 2017, 10:31:30 pm
Whoa, this is just getting more and more ridiculous and far-fetched.

I can actually sympathise with the rational side of giving them housing. It's effective.
You have to take into account that the intelligence community thinks about this completely rationally and really doesn't give a shit what the public thinks about their plans.
So long as they catch terrorists (which they do, more than you'd like to know) they don't give a shit about what people think.
And it does work, you can't really deny that. You just think it's morally deplorable. You're not wrong, but as I said, the Intel community doesn't really take that into account.

Could it be, in all your omniscient pro-(regressive) cuckoldry, you haven't considered that our intelligence agencies are completely overwhelmed with the sheer amount of terrorists polluting this country? Steven's cited the numbers already I believe; it's not numerically possible to monitor the amount of radicals in this country when considering the ratio of trained agents vs potential radicals (more accurately described as ticking time bombs at this stage).

Terror in the UK is hardly concentrated and easy to keep an eye on, just look at the distance between the origins of the Parsons Green attackers:

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnordic.businessinsider.com%2Fcontentassets%2Fbb19f8e97a454c99aa32be21c633cb4b%2F59c382a271fd8f60068b5441.jpg%3Fpreset%3Darticle-image&hash=83411d3d651084429db703b3a40e6854daa24e49)
[close]

Definitely rational to increase the number of and broaden the distance between terrorists.

I'm not even going to entertain the idea you put forward of paying to import trained mass murderers from Syria, housing them, and then bugging their housing and communications to expose said terrorist network that you just imported. It's objectively irrational (conservatives arguing on a moral basis lol, that gave me some much needed comic relief).

I can actually sympathise with the rational side of giving them housing. It's effective.

Is that why the refugees who were paid off and taken into care by a well-off family honored by the Queen went on to contribute to the Parsons Green bombing? You have a strange definition of "effective".

But they're not terrorists. They are suspected terrorists, which gives security services justifications for certain actions. If there is enough proof to convict them, they will. But no judge will convict someone of terrorism just because the prosecution can prove he or she visited IS-controlled area. This isn't a political issue.

When somebody asks me why Northwestern Europe is riddled with terrorism and the go-to for defeated Jihadis, mind if I cite this post? Thanks.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 07, 2017, 12:11:26 am
So you oppose the rule of law?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 07, 2017, 01:51:49 am
Point is that it's very hard to prove membership of a terrorist organisations (because they don't exacttly keep archives) or that they commited warcrimes. Pretty much all returnee's claim to have been a humitarian aid worker or a nurse and you can't imprison someone based on a likelihood. I mean, stupid rule of law, amirite?

Rubbish. In the UK at least we know who the vast majority of them are and what they did/are doing, see here for instance: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32026985

That's just what's been made public, the security agencies will obviously have much more extensive private files. Most of them are actually quite thick and it's easy to prove. Flying to Turkey? You'll come up on a list somewhere, MI5 will at the very least go through your internet history, listen in to your phone calls or whatever and the case will be built up from there. Not hard for governments to find out what you've been up to these days unless you only communicate via carrier pigeon. And I think you'll find ISIS do in fact keep archives because we've been recovering tens of thousands of documents from Mosul/Manbij/etc. Running a Caliphate tends to involve a lot of paperwork 'ya know.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 07, 2017, 03:21:40 pm
I get what you are all saying, but it's not based on how things work. It's hard to explain because I can't just spew everything I know and the rest of it would take a shitload of time.

we don't know how many terrorist attacks have been avoided by the security forces. Quite a lot, apparantly.
Well not publicly, no. But even for countries such as the netherlands, it's more than we'd like.

our intelligence agencies are completely overwhelmed with the sheer amount of terrorists polluting this country?

Not exactly. The terrosist threat hasn't been higher than it is now and perviously we wouldn't have called them overwhelmed either. The people who commit attacks are slipping through the net because they simply do not do stuff we find suspicious enough to warrant intensive surveillance. Not because the agencies can't, but because they think it's a waste of time for such people.


Point is that it's very hard to prove membership of a terrorist organisations (because they don't exacttly keep archives) or that they commited warcrimes. Pretty much all returnee's claim to have been a humitarian aid worker or a nurse and you can't imprison someone based on a likelihood. I mean, stupid rule of law, amirite?

Rubbish. In the UK at least we know who the vast majority of them are and what they did/are doing, see here for instance: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32026985

That's just what's been made public, the security agencies will obviously have much more extensive private files. Most of them are actually quite thick and it's easy to prove.

Quite easy to prove with what the intel services have yeah. But not enough legal evidence. Eitehr that or not enough to make it extremely sure to get a conviction. It's not about what they know... it's about what they can prove. Remember if there is any measure of reasonable doubt they won't convict? and you'll be in much more vtrouble with a failed conviction
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 08, 2017, 01:50:25 pm
Anyone catch Trump's arrival in China? Looks like all that tough talk actually paid off, lol.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on November 08, 2017, 03:49:39 pm
Anyone catch Trump's arrival in China? Looks like all that tough talk actually paid off, lol.
What do you mean?  Him getting a nice welcome doesn't mean anything when they come to negotiations.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 08, 2017, 03:57:27 pm
It shows us at the very least that the Chinese government appear to have regained their respect for the US President. I needn't remind anyone that Obama's last arrival was embarrassing, almost cringe worthy in fact.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on November 08, 2017, 04:01:00 pm
Yea compared to when obama went seems China went all out to greet Trump
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 08, 2017, 04:50:56 pm
Despite what many people say, Chinese US relations do seem to be improving. Donald Trump runs his mouth a bit but the combined opposition against North Korea does seem to have worked in his favour in regards to international cooperation.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 08, 2017, 07:29:24 pm
1776 will commence again
(https://i.gyazo.com/5229c17b3b1cc771ae06d23c04dd7deb.png)
(https://i.gyazo.com/119aabf4f628ef75e566636811f58591.png)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 08, 2017, 07:43:21 pm
The Chinese know Trump is a fantastic US President...for Chinese interests. Beijing has spent years trying to undermine TPP and Trump blew it up in his first week. His dumb comments about US troops stationed in Asia has also undermined America's position in the region. US allies are prepared to put up with it as a kind of 'one off' for four years but if he get's a second term countries will start to peel off and look to Beijing instead.

Essentially the Chinese want the US out of the Asia-Pacific as much as possible and Trump is a dream come true. He might talk tough on trade and NK but that's a minor compromise for them to accept. End result=Trump's sped up US decline by about 10 years.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on November 08, 2017, 07:49:38 pm
Spoiler
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/Huv2POgeR1i6R8rH4P9nZw.png)
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/H2LysHZCRHKmluPVxGTo0Q.png)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on November 09, 2017, 12:17:13 am
Seems like I'm a cuck.

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/9e054c525e85a41fccdfea324313f07f.png)
(https://i.gyazo.com/708dbe0caed114b9c94f5e2201e1043e.png)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 09, 2017, 12:50:44 am
I can't figure out how to post it like you all did so fuck you lot I'll link it instead.

http://politiscales.la-commune.net/results.html?c0=43&c1=24&b0=67&b1=5&t1=55&t0=14&s0=64&s1=10&m1=5&m0=57&p1=29&p0=45&femi=33&e0=36&e1=14&j1=24&j0=40&comp=67
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 09, 2017, 01:09:43 pm
It's all in French for me....
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Nero_ on November 09, 2017, 01:17:21 pm
You'll have to use Chrome to translate the page if you don't speak frog though.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on November 09, 2017, 02:31:03 pm
Got Work, Humanity, Freedom

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/O7ZoAkh.png)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 09, 2017, 03:25:11 pm
Humanity, socialism, equality.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 09, 2017, 03:47:24 pm
Humanity, Work, Equality...


I am literally halfway between communism and capitalism, and supposedly very progressive...?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on November 09, 2017, 04:23:33 pm
cucks, the lot of you
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 09, 2017, 06:46:21 pm
The Chinese know Trump is a fantastic US President...for Chinese interests. Beijing has spent years trying to undermine TPP and Trump blew it up in his first week. His dumb comments about US troops stationed in Asia has also undermined America's position in the region. US allies are prepared to put up with it as a kind of 'one off' for four years but if he get's a second term countries will start to peel off and look to Beijing instead.

Essentially the Chinese want the US out of the Asia-Pacific as much as possible and Trump is a dream come true. He might talk tough on trade and NK but that's a minor compromise for them to accept. End result=Trump's sped up US decline by about 10 years.

Feels like a lot of speculation to me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 09, 2017, 07:46:36 pm
Tbf Gordo you can see it happening. Countries are moving away from the USA because they don’t trust trump. He’s an isolationist and nationalist and that’s going to cost the US it’s role as an international leader.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on November 09, 2017, 11:01:24 pm
You guys assume we are in decline when in reality our economy is at its 3rd highest since World War II.  We are far from any recession let alone depression.  In terms of Trump, he clearly has gain more relations with several Asian countries such as Japan/India/Singapore, etc... Maybe European countries are distancing themselves but the major trade partners have been emboldened if anything

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 09, 2017, 11:04:40 pm
You guys assume we are in decline when in reality our economy is at its 3rd highest since World War II.  We are far from any recession let alone depression.  In terms of Trump, he clearly has gain more relations with several Asian countries such as Japan/India/Singapore, etc... Maybe European countries are distancing themselves but the major trade partners have been emboldened if anything
And yet China's economy is growing faster than yours. Soon they'll become the world leader and America will lag behind. Europe distancing itself is exactly the issue seeing as they make up a large portion of NATO and the US's influence. It's clear to anybody that America isn't as dominant on the world stage as it used to be.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on November 10, 2017, 12:41:09 am
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/f48302e62a973b1c4c6e276303de1dad.png)
[close]

"Not real socialism"
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on November 10, 2017, 01:13:28 am
^ watch out this guy's a libitibi
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on November 10, 2017, 03:41:26 am
gimme a link to that test ledger so I can see how far gone I am
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on November 10, 2017, 03:45:34 am
gimme a link to that test ledger so I can see how far gone I am

http://politiscales.la-commune.net/

You'll need to translate it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on November 10, 2017, 04:13:07 am
'Orc attacks are just part and parcel of living in Gondor. Gondor's ignorant view of Sauron could make both our countries less safe. Osgiliath has proven them wrong.'
- Witch King, recently elected Mayor of Osgiliath.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 10, 2017, 04:16:42 am
'Orc attacks are just part and parcel of living in Gondor. Gondor's ignorant view of Sauron could make both our countries less safe. Osgiliath has proven them wrong.'
- Witch King, recently elected Mayor of Osgiliath.
Banter
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 10, 2017, 12:13:36 pm
I suppose it’s talking in the sense of mentality rather than the actual pragmatics of how each would work.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on November 10, 2017, 12:36:53 pm
If you have more than 0% on Communism then don't talk, thanks.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: AeroNinja on November 10, 2017, 12:39:31 pm
If you have more than 0% on Communism then don't talk, thanks.
ayy
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on November 10, 2017, 02:57:06 pm
Quote
To be fair that part of the test is a meme. Capitalism and Socialism are modes of production. Capitalism is generalized production for exchange (that is, the exchange of goods and services for money and such, making them commodities), while Socialism is production for use, where there wouldn't be commodities to be exchanged for money, simply products.

You cannot have "a mix between the two" as they are basically oil and water.

You partially explained why socialism doesn't work.

I suppose it’s talking in the sense of mentality rather than the actual pragmatics of how each would work.

Exactly. Just ideas of how it should be instead of actual implementation or problem solving. Should be more contextual.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on November 10, 2017, 05:42:04 pm
Thanks for making my evening more pleasant, Fraudbear. The jest is much appreciated.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on November 10, 2017, 06:15:20 pm
What do you think eradicated traditional culture? Why do rightcucks complain consumerism and the inauthentic, superficial values of modern society but don't have the balls or brains to find the root cause?

Enlighten us, please.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 10, 2017, 06:41:18 pm
We'll give you time to copy out of Pravda, worry not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 10, 2017, 08:04:12 pm
Fraudbear don’t be a tit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on November 10, 2017, 10:05:10 pm
Capitalism mainly destroys culture through two different avenues

First of all, it destroys what we now call folk -or "people's"- culture. Man used to have a lot of his time devoted in creating the things that made life enjoyable: poetry, music, games, tales, even the mythology and religion he used to explain the world around him. He was also a participant in its survival and circulation, forming a common heritage whom he shared with his fellow man, passing down his knowledge and traditions from father to son, mother to daughter, etc.

Now he isn't nearly as capable of such as he no longer has the time or the energy. Half his waking hours -or even more- are spent generating profit for someone else, while his children are taught how to "sell themselves" to their future employers, or "finding their own brand".

He can no longer participate in the creation and maintenance of culture with his community either as he now also finds himself atomized in these little privatized spaces called Suburbia.

Furthermore, what ends up filling the void is not culture as naturally emerging from humans like before, but through this Culture Industry. What I mean by this is that Culture itself is subjected to a division of labor where certain people, mostly those working in the media industry, have the specific jobs to produce culture, not to create it.

Culture is now subjected to the rigorous logic of the assembly line. It is there to generate profit, to minimize cost and maximize revenue through appealing to the lowest common denominator consisting of the now desensitized people. Worse still, whom it generates profit for and is accountable only to are the shareholders and the owners, which in spite of owning nearly 90% of American media through a series of conglomerates, only seem ever more intent in increasing the size of their coffers.

What results is the consumerist culture, the homogeneous throwaway culture that spreads like cancer throughout the Globe in this epoch of Neoliberalism and mass media, only to be replaced by yet another manufactured fad after it inevitably burns out from the saturation.

There are two issues with your arguments. Firstly, regarding cultural development and individual manifestation. Most people fall apart unless they have a job or some sort of an  activity to keep them preoccupied and have a sense of value to society and this isn't achieved proactively where the individual takes initiative. A very small percentage of extraordinary, conscientious and talented individuals manage to busy themselves without an outside need; It's human psychology. There's a a reason why people have mental breakdowns when they're fired and fail to find a job / activity that would make them feel valuable to society.

Regarding your "It's all for malicious profit and exploitation of the poor". The free market adapts to the most efficient and effective way of maintaining itself resulting in technological and cultural progress. Furthermore, it has inadvertently become the best vessel for globalization, human progress and unification. Socialism has been tried and failed all through out history and its ideas are the anathema of what you people fight for.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Keita on November 10, 2017, 10:53:04 pm
Capitalism mainly destroys culture through two different avenues

First of all, it destroys what we now call folk -or "people's"- culture. Man used to have a lot of his time devoted in creating the things that made life enjoyable: poetry, music, games, tales, even the mythology and religion he used to explain the world around him. He was also a participant in its survival and circulation, forming a common heritage whom he shared with his fellow man, passing down his knowledge and traditions from father to son, mother to daughter, etc.

Now he isn't nearly as capable of such as he no longer has the time or the energy. Half his waking hours -or even more- are spent generating profit for someone else, while his children are taught how to "sell themselves" to their future employers, or "finding their own brand".

He can no longer participate in the creation and maintenance of culture with his community either as he now also finds himself atomized in these little privatized spaces called Suburbia.

Furthermore, what ends up filling the void is not culture as naturally emerging from humans like before, but through this Culture Industry. What I mean by this is that Culture itself is subjected to a division of labor where certain people, mostly those working in the media industry, have the specific jobs to produce culture, not to create it.

Culture is now subjected to the rigorous logic of the assembly line. It is there to generate profit, to minimize cost and maximize revenue through appealing to the lowest common denominator consisting of the now desensitized people. Worse still, whom it generates profit for and is accountable only to are the shareholders and the owners, which in spite of owning nearly 90% of American media through a series of conglomerates, only seem ever more intent in increasing the size of their coffers.

What results is the consumerist culture, the homogeneous throwaway culture that spreads like cancer throughout the Globe in this epoch of Neoliberalism and mass media, only to be replaced by yet another manufactured fad after it inevitably burns out from the saturation.

There are two issues with your arguments. Firstly, regarding cultural development and individual manifestation. Most people fall apart unless they have a job or some sort of an  activity to keep them preoccupied and have a sense of value to society and this isn't achieved proactively where the individual takes initiative. A very small percentage of extraordinary, conscientious and talented individuals manage to busy themselves without an outside need; It's human psychology. There's a a reason why people have mental breakdowns when they're fired and fail to find a job / activity that would make them feel valuable to society.

Regarding your "It's all for malicious profit and exploitation of the poor". The free market adapts to the most efficient and effective way of maintaining itself resulting in technological and cultural progress. Furthermore, it has inadvertently become the best vessel for globalization, human progress and unification. Socialism has been tried and failed all through out history and its ideas are the anathema of what you people fight for.
lol andy stfu
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 10, 2017, 10:54:40 pm
I wanna see what Fraudbear thinks of our kid Jezza Corbyn
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 10, 2017, 11:17:05 pm
First of all, it destroys what we now call folk -or "people's"- culture. Man used to have a lot of his time devoted in creating the things that made life enjoyable: poetry, music, games, tales, even the mythology and religion he used to explain the world around him.

Indeed, the free men and women of the USSR were renown for their poetry, music, games, tales and even mythology and religion.

They wuz westerners and shiet.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 10, 2017, 11:20:44 pm
It's kind of ironic how Fraudbear mentions the destruction of religion even though Communism is an atheist ideology.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phoen!x on November 10, 2017, 11:26:12 pm
It's kind of ironic how Fraudbear mentions the destruction of religion even though Communism is an atheist ideology.

Meaning what?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 10, 2017, 11:27:55 pm
It's kind of ironic how Fraudbear mentions the destruction of religion even though Communism is an atheist ideology.

Meaning what?
Meaning that he’s accusing capitalism of destroying religious values even though his own ideology is one of atheism?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on November 11, 2017, 12:57:44 am
Communism replaces the notion of a god watching over you with an actual persona as a god (Our dear leader).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phoen!x on November 11, 2017, 01:19:21 am
It's kind of ironic how Fraudbear mentions the destruction of religion even though Communism is an atheist ideology.

Meaning what?
Meaning that he’s accusing capitalism of destroying religious values even though his own ideology is one of atheism?

Almost missunderstood you. Thx
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on November 11, 2017, 01:37:08 am
Are we still arguing about communism?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 11, 2017, 03:18:21 am
Are we still arguing about communism?
We were arguing about Capitalism and culture. These faggots just like to move the goalposts.
Your vocabulary honestly makes you look 12 and that you've just learnt a naughty word that you're trying to impress your mates with.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 11, 2017, 03:42:50 am
And you think religion flourished in the Soviet Union? Free speech certainly died when the Communists came to power. There’s some equality for you.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 11, 2017, 04:27:08 am
And you think religion flourished in the Soviet Union? Free speech certainly died when the Communists came to power. There’s some equality for you.
Yeah and do you know anything about the Orthodox Russian Church in the early 20th century? Most peasants saw the church as a corrupt institutions from the days of the Tsar. The main campaign against religion finished in 1941. Under Kruschev, you were free to be a member and practice any faith, but it was discouraged by the State.

Islam in Central Asia was also equally retrograde shit. No regrets there.
You chat so much shite it’s unreal. Just because the institution that was replaced was bad that doesn’t make the replacement good. The Soviet Union was a dictatorship without free speech (not religion) led by an oppressive regime that murdered millions of its own people. Nice to see that you support that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on November 11, 2017, 04:34:30 pm
Quote
Socialism has been tried and failed all through out history and its ideas are the anathema of what you people fight for.
But we are not talking about Socialism. We are talking about the erosion of culture under Capitalism. Not an argument.

I did address your points in a general manner. You're correct on the last one, though. It's not supposed to be an argument but more of a jab (Should have separated it)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on November 11, 2017, 08:27:32 pm
I always wondered why people in the West want communism so badly when the people that actually lived under it do everything to escape it. :thinking:
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on November 11, 2017, 10:17:31 pm
Communism was a mistake.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on November 12, 2017, 02:04:10 am
I always wondered why people in the West want communism so badly when the people that actually lived under it do everything to escape it. :thinking:
but that wasn't REAL communism /s
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 12, 2017, 05:25:15 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/d68ae2c5a093f8bc6af1e417de509002.png)


I think we've reached the peak. He can't possibly Tweet something better than this hahaha.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 12, 2017, 05:28:40 pm
I can’t tell if he’s genuinely trolling people this time
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 13, 2017, 07:59:29 am
The fact we can't really tell is worrying
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on November 13, 2017, 01:49:28 pm
Hahaha what a boss
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Samu on November 14, 2017, 12:03:09 pm
Its so nice to come on a thread that isn't full of communism , like reddit





















o wait
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on November 14, 2017, 12:29:16 pm
/r/socialism xd kms
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Knightmare on November 14, 2017, 02:50:49 pm
just submit to shariah infidels!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 14, 2017, 09:19:34 pm
YOU ARE NOW ENTERING A
SHARIAH CONTROLLED
THREAD

ISLAMIC RULES ENFORCED:
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phoen!x on November 15, 2017, 12:15:53 am
So basically we're in Germany?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: fruitocino on November 15, 2017, 01:03:40 am
So basically we're in Germany?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 20, 2017, 09:17:29 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5kNP7tyhk8
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 22, 2017, 10:21:42 pm
UK economic forecast: We’re fucked
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Samu on November 22, 2017, 11:13:17 pm
Zimbabwe
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 23, 2017, 05:51:25 am
Did you just really defend Communist culture by referencing the Gulag Archipelago? Do you know anything about that book? You know, the one dedicated to explaining how to avoid the Communist disaster again lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 25, 2017, 11:14:18 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjandKT0pj8


Quite the upstir about the recent crackdown of free speech at Laurier university,
https://globalnews.ca/news/3868080/laurier-accused-of-censorship-after-ta-reprimanded-for-playing-gender-pronoun-debate-clip/

Canada is certainly giving America a run for their money when it comes to campus lunacy! 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 26, 2017, 12:09:55 am
If the University is a private institution then they’re entitled to have their members of staff have certain rules. Not creating an uncomfortable situation for their students would probably come into line with those rules. I suppose the controversy could have been alleviated with some kind of warning in place beforehand so that students who might be offended could have the opportunity to leave. Her free speech wasn’t violated. In the Uk teachers aren’t allowed to advocate for a political party over another, or at least my teachers weren’t, that’s not a violation of free speech it was just school policy.

I do think comparing it to Hitler was slightly excessive thogh and it does irritate me how the government spokeswomen basically refused to give a straight answer so you have to wade trough her question parrying to find her actual position on the matter.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 26, 2017, 03:33:52 am
Still an institution who have their own rules.

And all politicians do it. Theresa May excels at it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 26, 2017, 04:00:53 am
If the University is a private institution then they’re entitled to have their members of staff have certain rules. Not creating an uncomfortable situation for their students would probably come into line with those rules. I suppose the controversy could have been alleviated with some kind of warning in place beforehand so that students who might be offended could have the opportunity to leave. Her free speech wasn’t violated. In the Uk teachers aren’t allowed to advocate for a political party over another, or at least my teachers weren’t, that’s not a violation of free speech it was just school policy.

I do think comparing it to Hitler was slightly excessive thogh and it does irritate me how the government spokeswomen basically refused to give a straight answer so you have to wade trough her question parrying to find her actual position on the matter.
Whether her actions broke some rule or not, I find it absolutely despicable that someone who clearly presented the opinions in a neutral manner of a current political issue gets sanctioned for not taking sides. That's what happened here - she got sanctioned for not taking sides. Moreover she got sanctioned for fulfilling the university's core mission, presenting a current issue with the invitation for critical thought. Besides, it's The Agenda, which is Ontario's public political broadcast, which is a very well moderated debate on current issues. It's not an offensive show, nor is it anything more than presentation of well articulate ideas. There is no excuse for it, and it's disturbing that it happened.

I swear to god if the university I go to next year is like this I'll shoot myself.
Sadly it probably will. Take a look at the ratings to see how it'll be: http://campusfreedomindex.ca/
My campus gets C's all around, but it's usually fairly departmental: avoid Political Science, Gender Studies, English and theatre if you're a fan of having your own opinion.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 27, 2017, 07:42:17 pm
It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas...

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/c7a30cb01d905a538e6c8de8a3dd288e.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 27, 2017, 09:25:20 pm
I don’t see what your point is Gordo?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Prince_Eugen on November 27, 2017, 09:30:57 pm
Looks ugly imo
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 27, 2017, 09:42:19 pm
I don’t see what your point is Gordo?

If only deduction was a God-given ability, right?

Looks ugly imo

Sure beats the naked blockades they've deployed in Germany (not saying that Hull's are a great improvement, lol).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 27, 2017, 10:18:24 pm
I was wondering how that relates to politics in any way.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 27, 2017, 10:56:33 pm
Well I'm glad you asked, Toffee! :)

Strictly speaking, the deployment of anti-terrorism countermeasures such as security blockades due to the activities of politically motivated groups such as ISIS is in fact directly related to politics. Humour was also a driving force I suppose, with that pic being a perfect representation of 'the west' in 2017 and all. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 27, 2017, 11:03:48 pm
Right
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 28, 2017, 12:45:35 pm
For once I agree Gordo
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on November 29, 2017, 03:03:18 am
Hey well Gordo, atleast some angry mob can't tear that down if it were to be deemed offensive for them, so it's also a great solution for that issue!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 29, 2017, 09:51:47 pm
Trump’s PR team having another bad day
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on November 29, 2017, 09:56:00 pm
Trump’s PR team having another bad day
No one cares besides the liberal media lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 29, 2017, 10:15:51 pm
Trump’s PR team having another bad day
No one cares besides the liberal media lol
And the rest of the world. Even the British Primeminister has said he was wrong. If you don’t know who Britain First are then you should know that they’re known as being racist and Islamaphobic. The President of the USA sharing their stuff is basically saying he’s anti Muslim.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on November 29, 2017, 10:25:40 pm
I mean I agree he's a moron when it comes to tweeting but more importantly if our tax reform passes your country will suffer a hit, unless you guys compete and lower corporate tax rates for foreign entities. That should be bigger news than anything else
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 29, 2017, 10:31:00 pm
I mean I agree he's a moron when it comes to tweeting but more importantly if our tax reform passes your country will suffer a hit, unless you guys compete and lower corporate tax rates for foreign entities. That should be bigger news than anything else
Other than the fact that the President of the biggest superpower in the world is an Islamaphobe? That’s pretty huge news
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 29, 2017, 10:33:04 pm
I struggle to give a fuck about US politics/Trump/etc. Perhaps as much as 90% of what gets reported in the British media about US politics is totally irrelevant to me. Was bad enough having the BBC give me constant updates about stuff like Obamacare, as if I or any other normal person cares about American health insurance, and now with Trump it's even worse.

Trump re-tweets controversial stuff on Twitter, well f*** me what a surprise. The worst thing is Trump probably won't get re-elected in 2020, and will replaced with an uber-liberal 'anti-Trump' Democrat and I'll hear no end to BBC stories about gender-neutral toilets being installed in the White House or whatever.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 29, 2017, 10:39:38 pm
so the president of the USA shouldn’t be held accountable for what he says and does? Because this is some pretty big shit, maybe the most controversial thing he’s ever shared on Twitter.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 29, 2017, 10:46:50 pm
Trump re-tweets controversial stuff on Twitter, well f*** me what a surprise. The worst thing is Trump probably won't get re-elected in 2020, and will replaced with an uber-liberal 'anti-Trump' Democrat and I'll hear no end to BBC stories about gender-neutral toilets being installed in the White House or whatever.

It's just another 'outrageous' Tweet that will make his supporters cheer and his critics jeer (it's almost as if this has happened like twenty times before).

Other than the fact that the President of the biggest superpower in the world is an Islamaphobe? That’s pretty huge news. Even the British Primeminister has said he was wrong.

Is it really shocking that the President of the USA - whose country's constitution was built upon beliefs opposite of that of Islam - is against Islam? Also, I could write paragraphs about the incompetence and disastrous ministry of Theresa May. Please don't pretend like a single soul in the universe gives the slightest sh*t what she thinks about anything.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 29, 2017, 10:57:12 pm
It’s quite shocking that he would align himself with a far-right group, yes. And Britain is the USAs closest ally. Trump is severing relations quickly.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 30, 2017, 01:05:50 am
It’s quite shocking that he would align himself with a far-right group, yes. And Britain is the USAs closest ally. Trump is severing relations quickly.
As yes, because Tweets dictate foreign policy with the most powerful country in the world  ::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 30, 2017, 01:20:09 am
It’s quite shocking that he would align himself with a far-right group, yes. And Britain is the USAs closest ally. Trump is severing relations quickly.
As yes, because Tweets dictate foreign policy with the most powerful country in the world  ::)
No they don’t, but a denunciation from 10 Downing Street certainly reflects an attitude towards his actions, wouldn’t you say? The Primeminister is distancing herself from him.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on November 30, 2017, 03:21:04 am
It’s quite shocking that he would align himself with a far-right group, yes. And Britain is the USAs closest ally. Trump is severing relations quickly.
As yes, because Tweets dictate foreign policy with the most powerful country in the world  ::)
To be fair when you're a head of state it should take more thought than simply reading a headline before sharing something. I don't think its to much to ask to at least exercise that amount of competency.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on November 30, 2017, 04:18:47 am
Lol he didn't align himself with anyone, he saw something on his feed and retweeted it, big deal he's obviously not a traditional president.  It's no surprise at all he's anti-Muslim, he made that very clear from day one lmao

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on November 30, 2017, 04:25:23 am
The only head rag I like is the one hanging onto my wall to wipe my sweat off with
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakester on November 30, 2017, 05:16:06 am
Lol he didn't align himself with anyone, he saw something on his feed and retweeted it, big deal he's obviously not a traditional president.  It's no surprise at all he's anti-Muslim, he made that very clear from day one lmao
+1

Trump shouldn't have surprised anyone so far. People voted for him because they knew his views. This is nothing new to anyone, except for people who just turned and looked the other way any time Trump was mentioned; What he tweets and all that garbage, who should care, unless tweeting is signing something into any official capacity (which it is not) then it shouldn't even matter what he tweets. Hold him accountable for his point of view? Sure, understandable. He ran as a right wing candidate who was publicly "America first" and told his voters that he was going to bring immigration of Muslims and Mexicans down.


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 30, 2017, 05:27:24 am
It’s quite shocking that he would align himself with a far-right group, yes. And Britain is the USAs closest ally. Trump is severing relations quickly.
As yes, because Tweets dictate foreign policy with the most powerful country in the world  ::)
No they don’t, but a denunciation from 10 Downing Street certainly reflects an attitude towards his actions, wouldn’t you say? The Primeminister is distancing herself from him.
Meh. The PM already publically distanced herself from Trump; however, like other world leaders who've done this, it's clear that that's mostly to score points from the anti-Trump crowd. I mean, look at the Chinese - they've been wary of Trump from day 1, published statements about his antics, disapproved of him publically, and yet they're investing hundreds of millions of dollars in American energy and deepening military and economic ties.

I'm honestly starting to think Trump tweets controversial shit to distract literally everyone from things. Anyone follow the senate confirmation hearings of Kathleen Hartnett White? No? didn't think so, who needs to know about WH policy advisors when Trump is tweeting something mean
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 30, 2017, 08:56:21 am
So basically what you’re telling me is that everything okay because Trump is a gigantic shit stirrer on an international level
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 30, 2017, 10:56:52 am
You guys confuse the workings of international politics with national politics.
International politics is over the top super fucking sensitive. Yes, leaders do give a shit what kund of video you share. Leaders do care if you spell their names correctly.

It affects deals, trade, possible compromises. If an individual representative of government doesn't like you because of what you tweet... Yes, that does affect any deal, however childish that may seem.
Especially Asian countries are good at that shit but Europe,especially south and eastern EU can be a real bitch. And if you want to or not, you'll HAVE to deal with almost all countries.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Samu on November 30, 2017, 11:02:23 am
You guys confuse the workings of international politics with national politics.
International politics is over the top super fucking sensitive. Yes, leaders do give a shit what kund of video you share. Leaders do care if you spell their names correctly.

It affects deals, trade, possible compromises. If an individual representative of government doesn't like you because of what you tweet... Yes, that does affect any deal, however childish that may seem.
Especially Asian countries are good at that shit but Europe,especially south and eastern EU can be a real bitch. And if you want to or not, you'll HAVE to deal with almost all countries.
This is very true
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 30, 2017, 01:23:26 pm
You guys confuse the workings of international politics with national politics.
International politics is over the top super fucking sensitive. Yes, leaders do give a shit what kund of video you share. Leaders do care if you spell their names correctly.

It affects deals, trade, possible compromises. If an individual representative of government doesn't like you because of what you tweet... Yes, that does affect any deal, however childish that may seem.
Especially Asian countries are good at that shit but Europe,especially south and eastern EU can be a real bitch. And if you want to or not, you'll HAVE to deal with almost all countries.

That's not totally correct. Trade deals and that kind of thing take place between lower functionaries and backroom people-Trump/May/Barnier/Juncker/Jinping don't have a clue about modern trade. The only purpose they have is to ultimately set the agenda and the parameters of the talks after taking advice from those same backroom staff. Most of what they do is just for show.

Anyway money talks and politics takes a back seat in 99% of cases. Most European countries claim to like human rights yet that doesn't stop them selling vast quantities of military hardware to Saudi Arabia. Even Sweden does that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 30, 2017, 02:18:25 pm
You're overgeneralising on the military sales. For starters it are not 'vast quantities' and they certainly do not send quality material to Saudi-Arabia. Most countries aren't even permitting their industries to sell to most middle-eastern countries considering the war SA is waging in Yemen.

And if they send military equipment what they can actually send it 'dumbed down' so much it really doesn't give countries like Saudi Arabia an edge considering what they sell usually only does things that other systems will do just as fine and they'd be able to get their hands on anyway, so it doesn't really matter if it's EU or Russia. And yes, those considerations are political.

To take a small example: Indonesia ordered two sub-destroyer frigates from the Netherlands, from Damen Naval Shipyards, the company that produces Dutch Warships. In cooperation with those, Thales Group basically builds almost all the high-tech radar systems and communications equipment. The ships rank among the top of the world and Thales'  radar systems are arguably the best there are. The rest from the higher-tech electronics in Dutch warships is American.

Now, how much does one think Indonesia actually got out of this? A ship that sails, shoots and communicates, sure. But as soon as the order came through the Dutch government intervened and ordere Damen and Thales to basically remove anything that was quality equipment. For example: they got the Goalkeeper system, as in, the machine gun for it, but the radar they actually got with it was so shit it doesn't even come close to the real deal.

It is these kinds of deals between governments and private companies that are usuall signed into law and policy that make it look like a big deal that Saudi Arabia is buying equipment from European companies (which is hard to stop, actually, I mean, it's still a private company) but really doesn't matter that much because European equipment won't be Tsignificantly better than what other countries will offer, and it will certainly not come close to EU military power.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 30, 2017, 08:10:50 pm
You're overgeneralising on the military sales. For starters it are not 'vast quantities' and they certainly do not send quality material to Saudi-Arabia. Most countries aren't even permitting their industries to sell to most middle-eastern countries considering the war SA is waging in Yemen.

?????
The EU is the world's second largest arms exporter after the USA, and Saudi Arabia is the EU's second largest customer (again after the USA). The Middle East as a region is easily the world's largest importer of arms. To Saudi Arabia alone we're talking billions of Euros worth of orders a year, and I don't know what you mean by 'we don't send them quality material' given they've bought Euro-fighters, missile systems, ships etc. This is the same equipment that France and Britain use (the only two European countries west of Russia that possess a modern military).


It is these kinds of deals between governments and private companies that are usuall signed into law and policy that make it look like a big deal that Saudi Arabia is buying equipment from European companies (which is hard to stop, actually, I mean, it's still a private company) but really doesn't matter that much because European equipment won't be Tsignificantly better than what other countries will offer, and it will certainly not come close to EU military power.

Rubbish, it can be stopped very easily as you need export licenses. Very few countries possess advanced defence industries that sell the full range of modern military hardware. The market is dominated by 6 countries (USA, UK, France, Germany, Russia, China) and political concerns usually preclude buying from the latter two.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 30, 2017, 10:29:38 pm
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODRJiC3u7EQ
[close]

0:29: "We need to ARREST Drumpf."

(And some of you thought Labour couldn't be any worse than the Tories? Lol.)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 30, 2017, 10:34:52 pm
Yes because a single MP represents party policy
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 30, 2017, 10:40:52 pm
The fact that any party MP would suggest such an absurd thing speaks volumes about the party, to be honest. Imagine a UKIP MP suggesting we arrest Merkel; he/she'd be ridiculed.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 30, 2017, 11:04:30 pm
Imagine a Ukip MEP calling women sluts at a party. Imagine one claiming that he lost friends in the hullsborough disaster when he didn’t. Imagine saying he wouldn’t be opposed to bringing back internment camps. Or maybe when Nuttall wrote about how the existence of the NHS was a bad thing. He also once aired his scepticism about climate change and opposition to a ruling where a couple were charged with discrimination for not allowing two gay men to sleep in the same bed. Does this represent UKIP?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 30, 2017, 11:07:10 pm
Quote
He also once aired his scepticism about climate change
What a sin
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on November 30, 2017, 11:10:51 pm
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODRJiC3u7EQ
[close]

0:29: "We need to ARREST Drumpf."

(And some of you thought Labour couldn't be any worse than the Tories? Lol.)
What you said is a bit misleading. The guy said the whole arrest thing as a means the ambassador should use to persuade Trump not to come to the UK.
You make it seem like he was calling from Trump to be extradited because "ye old batshit labour" was trying to get him arrested.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 30, 2017, 11:19:25 pm
Quote
He also once aired his scepticism about climate change
What a sin
Well it’s generally accepted that climate change is a thing..
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 30, 2017, 11:20:18 pm
Imagine a Ukip MEP calling women sluts at a party. Imagine one claiming that he lost friends in the hullsborough disaster when he didn’t. Imagine saying he wouldn’t be opposed to bringing back internment camps. Or maybe when Nuttall wrote about how the existence of the NHS was a bad thing. He also once aired his scepticism about climate change and opposition to a ruling where a couple were charged with discrimination for not allowing two gay men to sleep in the same bed. Does this represent UKIP?

The difference being that UKIP is a small and obscure party, in comparison to Labour who are supposed to be light years more professional and have massive national reach and an international platform!

What incredibly amateurish diplomacy from politicians belonging to a country which is withdrawing membership from the largest political entity in the continent, the immediate source of our trade. If we get a poor deal with the EU (the chances of which become greater everyday with May essentially bending over during negotiations) we may have to rely upon our allies to cover the losses for the short-term.

It's hardly the time to be risking our relationship with our greatest and most powerful ally - all for the sake of taking the moral high ground. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 30, 2017, 11:23:32 pm
UKIP is only a small and obscure party because they did these things. They were big players until they exhausted their usefulness. I honestly can’t believe your excuse is that they’re not professional enough as if that’s okay.

Why would labour abandon their merits and the core beliefs of their party over Donald Trump. He’ll be gone by the next UK election anyway.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on November 30, 2017, 11:31:06 pm
UKIP is only a small and obscure party because they did these things. They were big players until they exhausted their usefulness. I honestly can’t believe your excuse is that they’re not professional enough as if that’s okay.

Why would labour abandon their merits and the core beliefs of their party over Donald Trump. He’ll be gone by the next UK election anyway.
So are you saying that the Green party is small and obscure because they act like UKIP? Interesting thought.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 30, 2017, 11:33:32 pm
UKIP is only a small and obscure party because they did these things. They were big players until they exhausted their usefulness. I honestly can’t believe your excuse is that they’re not professional enough as if that’s okay.

Why would labour abandon their merits and the core beliefs of their party over Donald Trump. He’ll be gone by the next UK election anyway.
So are you saying that the Green party is small and obscure because they act like UKIP? Interesting thought.
What do you mean? UKIP are unpopular because they were overly controversial and kind of irrelevant after the Brexit vote. How does that relate to green?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on November 30, 2017, 11:36:57 pm
UKIP is only a small and obscure party because they did these things. They were big players until they exhausted their usefulness. I honestly can’t believe your excuse is that they’re not professional enough as if that’s okay.

First of all UKIP were never that influential within the realm of UK politics. The two-party system, broken as it is, saw to that. I don't think it's logical to use Nuttall's past comments as justification for Labour's downright stupidity, which is becoming more of a problem as of late (see Diane Abbott for another fantastic example of the average Labour MP).

Why would labour abandon their merits and the core beliefs of their party over Donald Trump. He’ll be gone by the next UK election anyway.

Labour's merits and core beliefs involve breaching international law and arresting a foreign diplomat should he visit our country? That's incredible. As for your second point: I'd argue quite the contrary; polarization is only becoming more and more prevalent in the west and as a result populist politicians such as Donald Trump will only stand a great chance in the polling booths come the next election period.

(In case you were hinting at impeachment or the like: don't be silly.)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 30, 2017, 11:43:25 pm
Things only appear to be what suits you Gordo. I was comparing this one Labour mp to one UKIP mp, proving my point that a single person doesn’t represent the party.

And when talking about Labour’s policies I was referencing their left wing beliefs that counter those of Donald Trump, showing why they would oppose him rather than talking about the comments of the labour MP. I assume you vote UKIP though because they can do no wrong in your eyes.

UKIP were influential in UK politics, no chance of getting into government but to say that they had no effect would be a lie. Donald Trump has a terrible approval rating. He won’t get re-elected. And in the UK the next government will almost certainly be a labour one.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on November 30, 2017, 11:45:52 pm
UKIP is only a small and obscure party because they did these things. They were big players until they exhausted their usefulness. I honestly can’t believe your excuse is that they’re not professional enough as if that’s okay.

Why would labour abandon their merits and the core beliefs of their party over Donald Trump. He’ll be gone by the next UK election anyway.
So are you saying that the Green party is small and obscure because they act like UKIP? Interesting thought.
What do you mean? UKIP are unpopular because they were overly controversial and kind of irrelevant after the Brexit vote. How does that relate to green?
You're implying the party is small because of it being controversial and loud. Implying first past the post and their sole objective as a protest party isn't the actual reasons for their size. No one will elect a government of a protest party because they often have no plans aside from one or two big ones. Which is why UKIP died after the vote. The sole use of UKIP was to get the Brexit vote, thats the reason why its obscure. The way they acted is what allowed them to have some influence despite being small. Maybe if the greens where more controversial they'd do better as well. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on November 30, 2017, 11:52:08 pm
The more extreme stuff that Nuttall has said certainly aren’t reasons to have gained voters. Extremist parties don’t often gain much of the vote in the UK going either way. That’s why the appointment of Corbyn was met with a lot of scepticism since he was more left leaning than New Labour. Both of the biggest parties are more central leaning on their respective side of the spectrum. The greens are actually relatively similar in size to UKIP so that would kind of disprove the idea that controversy means votes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on December 01, 2017, 12:04:05 am
And when talking about Labour’s policies I was referencing their left wing beliefs that counter those of Donald Trump, showing why they would oppose him rather than talking about the comments of the labour MP. I assume you vote UKIP though because they can do no wrong in your eyes.

Please stay within the context of this discussion. Jumping from one very specific case, that being attacking Trump if you've already forgotten, to 'left wing beliefs that counter those of Donald Trump' isn't very useful. What beliefs? And how do they counter Donald Trump's? Do you even read policy by any chance?
And no I did not in fact vote UKIP, sorry to disappoint you. It'd be a waste of a vote.

UKIP were influential in UK politics, no chance of getting into government but to say that they had no effect would be a lie. Donald Trump has a terrible approval rating. He won’t get re-elected. And in the UK the next government will almost certainly be a labour one.

A bold claim, one that is based upon the findings of the same pollsters that mislead millions during 2016. I'm glad you've learnt very little from such an education event.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 01, 2017, 12:07:33 am
Do I read policy? How about the fact that labour are on the complete opposite end of the spectrum to Donald Trump and support equality over all when he stands for nationalism? What are you even talking about at this point? Who did you vote then Gordo?

That’s not a bold claim at all. Trump isn’t very popular at all tbh. Remember he won the election on the system rather than the popular vote and his approval rating has dropped since then if I’m not mistaken.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on December 01, 2017, 01:23:12 am
Quote
He also once aired his scepticism about climate change
What a sin
Well it’s generally accepted that climate change is a thing..
..... i'm not even going to dignify this with a response as you clearly have no knowledge of the issue
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on December 01, 2017, 01:37:54 am
Well it’s generally accepted that climate change is a thing..
..... i'm not even going to dignify this with a response as you clearly have no knowledge of the issue

You obviously cared enough to take the time to type out that response. So please, go a bit further and put forward your arguements because I am now genuinely curious as to how one can deny climate change in itself.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on December 01, 2017, 04:08:13 am
Well it’s generally accepted that climate change is a thing..
..... i'm not even going to dignify this with a response as you clearly have no knowledge of the issue

You obviously cared enough to take the time to type out that response. So please, go a bit further and put forward your arguements because I am now genuinely curious as to how one can deny climate change in itself.
Okay!

No serious skeptic of climate change denies its existence. It's a meme, created by eco-religious activists to denounce anyone who disagrees with them.

The core issue in the climate change discussion is how much the variance is caused by humans (since the climate has always changed, with and without humans), whether the measurements of global climate variations are accurate, whether the models for projection of future climate change are accurate, and if all of these things go as climate activists say, whether the solutions they present won't doom the third world to a future without reliable and affordable energy. Or whether it'll bankrupt the west further than the west has already bankrupted ourselves.

Note an important distinction that you're both guilty of:
The original quote from Toffee was "aired his skepticism about climate change" but yet you both switched from skepticism to denial. Denial of a phenomena is different than skepticism of its variances or implications, but to you people with a very dainty black and white political worldview it's either embrace my positions or be against them. Hah.

I don't know what the UKIP guy said, by the way. If he denies the climate changes, well, that's nice and very inaccurate, but if he's skeptical about the things at issue I presented then it's hilarious you present that as a sin.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 01, 2017, 07:40:25 am
Quote
He also once aired his scepticism about climate change
What a sin
Well it’s generally accepted that climate change is a thing..
..... i'm not even going to dignify this with a response as you clearly have no knowledge of the issue
“I sympathise with the resignation of renowned professor Harold Lewis who has called global warming a money led scam”

Paul Nuttall wrote that himself, Theodin.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on December 01, 2017, 12:43:26 pm
Note an important distinction that you're both guilty of:
The original quote from Toffee was "aired his skepticism about climate change" but yet you both switched from skepticism to denial. Denial of a phenomena is different than skepticism of its variances or implications, but to you people with a very dainty black and white political worldview it's either embrace my positions or be against them. Hah.

The extreme wording you used in your response to Toffee led me to believe you sit in the denial camp. An incorrect assumption, you're right on that. And no, my world view isn't as black and white as you like to think. Criticism of climate change is always valid criticism since we don't understand the science behind the issue enough to really make one claim or another. I personally believe it is a natural process on its own that is now being increased and speed up by human actions.

Now, onto another topic I wanna know from you, seeing as you are an actual skeptic, what is your view on reneweable energy? If we just push aside the issue of climate change, we still face the possibility of running out of fossil fuels before the century is at it's end. That still means we have to invest in new sources of energy sooner or later. What do you think of that?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on December 01, 2017, 05:21:55 pm
Note an important distinction that you're both guilty of:
The original quote from Toffee was "aired his skepticism about climate change" but yet you both switched from skepticism to denial. Denial of a phenomena is different than skepticism of its variances or implications, but to you people with a very dainty black and white political worldview it's either embrace my positions or be against them. Hah.

The extreme wording you used in your response to Toffee led me to believe you sit in the denial camp. An incorrect assumption, you're right on that. And no, my world view isn't as black and white as you like to think. Criticism of climate change is always valid criticism since we don't understand the science behind the issue enough to really make one claim or another. I personally believe it is a natural process on its own that is now being increased and speed up by human actions.

Now, onto another topic I wanna know from you, seeing as you are an actual skeptic, what is your view on reneweable energy? If we just push aside the issue of climate change, we still face the possibility of running out of fossil fuels before the century is at it's end. That still means we have to invest in new sources of energy sooner or later. What do you think of that?
Very impressive first paragraph, someone like Toffee would just respond with a boiler plate "you're just wrong" so kudos.

The question of fossil fuels is interesting. It seems like you're referring to peak oil, but I have serious doubts that the world supply of oil will run out by the end of the century unless there is an extreme natural disaster or world war that eliminates all the oil reserves and stops every pump.

Currently natural gas seems to be the energy source of at least the next 50 years - cheap, widely available, and with a very insignificant environmental impact, or as least within reasonable impact levels. The technology behind renewable energy sources is rapidly expanding and the price of these energy sources are declining, but these sources are not at the level where they can provide reliable or affordable energy supply to grids. An excellent case study is Ontario - tripling energy prices for no environmental impact and limited energy production. Some environmentalists think we should just cut coal and fossil fuels and switch right away to renewables, but energy costs are one of the only costs everyone pays and this switch would shoot the prices up.

If you were to put me in charge of the worlds energy production, I'd let coal plants run until they're unprofitable or retrofit them to be clean coal plants, maintain existing nuclear facilities around the world and expand natural gas pipelines and production, making the fuel even cheaper. I'd sell the natural gas at a low price to poor countries, giving them reliable and cheap electricity, and cut subsidies to renewable energy measures while waiting for investor confidence in renewable energy to increase. Sure renewables are the future but they're not the present, and especially in the west where air pollution isn't a problem anyways it makes no sense to dump public funds into these ventures.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 01, 2017, 05:41:06 pm
“Someone like Toffee”. Kind of a stupid statement since I proved exactly what I wanted to prove by quoting Nuttall. Didn’t mention that in your essay though did you?

I wasn’t denying that there was a discussion to be had on climate change, merely that to disregard in the way that’s Nuttall has come across is stupid. Maybe I should have worded my original paragraph better so as to not trigger your superiority complex, Theodin.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on December 01, 2017, 06:48:13 pm
“Someone like Toffee”. Kind of a stupid statement since I proved exactly what I wanted to prove by quoting Nuttall. Didn’t mention that in your essay though did you?

I wasn’t denying that there was a discussion to be had on climate change, merely that to disregard in the way that’s Nuttall has come across is stupid. Maybe I should have worded my original paragraph better so as to not trigger your superiority complex, Theodin.

Quote from: Theodin
I don't know what the UKIP guy said, by the way. If he denies the climate changes, well, that's nice and very inaccurate, but if he's skeptical about the things at issue I presented then it's hilarious you present that as a sin.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ reading is hard sometimes
not only did you misconstrue what he said as skepticism, but you attributed my essay as a defense of Paul Nuttal when I specifically mentioned that
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 01, 2017, 07:20:29 pm
Okay scepticism was the wrong word, he straight up sympathises with someone who doesn’t believe in  climate change. Why try and be so picky over a single word when you know the point I’m making about him is correct? If you don’t know what he said then don’t start an argument over it. I didn’t want a discussion over climate change, I was making a point about Nuttall.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on December 01, 2017, 07:25:42 pm
Because word choice matters, especially on this issue, and you're flippant about your use of it. If you can't see that then I'm glad you don't want to discuss it, because you probably shouldn't
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 01, 2017, 07:34:19 pm
Because word choice matters, especially on this issue, and you're flippant about your use of it. If you can't see that then I'm glad you don't want to discuss it, because you probably shouldn't
Word choice does matter, which is why I corrected myself. But you acknowledged previously that you knew I was talking about denial rather than scepticism and yet you still continued to press me over it. It seems you may be slightly pedantic Theodin, as well as slightly stuck up.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on December 01, 2017, 08:51:36 pm
at least i dont use words like pedantic
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 02, 2017, 01:13:04 am
at least i dont use words like pedantic
Wait...what?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on December 02, 2017, 03:00:00 pm
We just passed a huge tax reform bill in the Senate, no longer will we have the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world, aye
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 02, 2017, 03:10:00 pm
We just passed a huge tax reform bill in the Senate, no longer will we have the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world, aye
Thoughts on Flynn?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on December 02, 2017, 04:24:25 pm
We just passed a huge tax reform bill in the Senate, no longer will we have the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world, aye
Thoughts on Flynn?
He obviously should be held liable for lying to the FBI about talking to Russia.  But what's sad is they spent since May and could only charge him with lying about that... was expecting a bit more given the intensity of the investigation. Flynn is a good guy otherwise, he has a decorated career and has definitely given a lot to this country, so it's sad when his career ends like this
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 02, 2017, 07:07:28 pm
We just passed a huge tax reform bill in the Senate, no longer will we have the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world, aye
Thoughts on Flynn?
He obviously should be held liable for lying to the FBI about talking to Russia.  But what's sad is they spent since May and could only charge him with lying about that... was expecting a bit more given the intensity of the investigation. Flynn is a good guy otherwise, he has a decorated career and has definitely given a lot to this country, so it's sad when his career ends like this

Lol. They're only charging him for that because Flynn entered into some kind of plea deal-he's allegedly given them info on another member of the administration in return for the other charges being dropped. Apparently it's Kushner he's grassed on.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 04, 2017, 03:45:23 pm
We just passed a huge tax reform bill in the Senate, no longer will we have the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world, aye


It's interesting as there seem to be no countermeasures towards to loss of all that money coming in.... even if it will buy jobs, that won't account for the trillions of dollars the US Government will lose... and it still needs the money, or you know, the already dramatic financial situation of the country gets even more dramatic.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 04, 2017, 04:21:52 pm
I’ve heard that they slipped some really sneaky shit into that bill too. Dunno if it’s true like but read that they added something on abortions? Can anyone confirm this?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 04, 2017, 07:25:22 pm
That wouldn't make much sense considering it'd make categorisation of law quite hard if we started putting health shit in financial law.

Imagine a future law student failing a test because he missed Abortions are illegal because of Article 483 lid 56 section 12 of the Financial Reform Act states it as illegal.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on December 04, 2017, 07:57:24 pm
It's a good bill, the 1.5 trillion deficit doesn't take into considerations the amount of repatriation tax the government will reap over the next decade, with huge corporations already starting next year.  Keep in mind that the Congressional budget office which put out that analysis is not fully bipartisan like they might say, the guy who runs it was a strong liberal for years.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 04, 2017, 08:02:32 pm
(Occasional reminder that tax cuts are only a good thing if followed by sensible cuts to public expenditure, otherwise you'll have to borrow to meet your commitments)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on December 04, 2017, 09:23:13 pm
(Occasional reminder that tax cuts are only a good thing if followed by sensible cuts to public expenditure, otherwise you'll have to borrow to meet your commitments)

Don't worry. They won't cut anything, they never do. Democrats will do everything they can to block cuts to [insert these programs] and the Republicans will refuse to cut [Insert Other Programs]; the Federal Government hasn't known how to become fiscally responsible for a while now because constituents would rather keep spending other people's money for their own comfort, even if we're out of other people's money to spend; combined with certain people's unwillingness to leave the world be.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on December 04, 2017, 11:22:52 pm
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/04/supreme-court-permits-full-enforcement-trump-travel-ban.html

Well... that took a while.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on December 05, 2017, 12:05:45 am
Shoutout to all those who thought a travel ban like that wasn't legal
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on December 05, 2017, 12:34:44 am
Don't worry. They won't cut anything, they never do. Democrats will do everything they can to block cuts to [insert these programs] and the Republicans will refuse to cut [Insert Other Programs]; the Federal Government hasn't known how to become fiscally responsible for a while now because constituents would rather keep spending other people's money for their own comfort, even if we're out of other people's money to spend; combined with certain people's unwillingness to leave the world be.

But surely leaders in our democratic system would do something more than just look out for their own (Or their party's) reelection? Someone must look to the future, beyond the lining of their own pockets with public money, right?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on December 05, 2017, 01:55:57 am
Don't worry. They won't cut anything, they never do. Democrats will do everything they can to block cuts to [insert these programs] and the Republicans will refuse to cut [Insert Other Programs]; the Federal Government hasn't known how to become fiscally responsible for a while now because constituents would rather keep spending other people's money for their own comfort, even if we're out of other people's money to spend; combined with certain people's unwillingness to leave the world be.

But surely leaders in our democratic system would do something more than just look out for their own (Or their party's) reelection? Someone must look to the future, beyond the lining of their own pockets with public money, right?
They're called third parties or unemployed.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on December 05, 2017, 06:27:16 pm
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/04/supreme-court-permits-full-enforcement-trump-travel-ban.html

Well... that took a while.
well that just made all of the other justices who blocked the order look like fools
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 05, 2017, 11:17:14 pm
Not the first time the Germans have felt threatened by a US President.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-germany-survey/germans-see-trump-as-bigger-problem-than-north-korea-or-russia-idUSKBN1DZ0GY
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 06, 2017, 12:46:32 am
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/04/supreme-court-permits-full-enforcement-trump-travel-ban.html

Well... that took a while.

Was he really democratically elected though? He got way less votes than Hillary, Donald Trump is a president of the minority not the majority.

Also look up Felix Sater & Tevfik Arif.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on December 06, 2017, 02:33:20 am
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/04/supreme-court-permits-full-enforcement-trump-travel-ban.html

Well... that took a while.

Was he really democratically elected though? He got way less votes than Hillary, Donald Trump is a president of the minority not the majority.

Also look up Felix Sater & Tevfik Arif.
Yes, he was really democratically elected. If you're using popular vote to justify democracy than there is no democracy in the world except for Switzerland.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: joer5835 on December 06, 2017, 02:50:15 am
If you're using popular vote to justify democracy than there is no democracy in the world except for Switzerland.

Not entirely true. Popular vote determines who wins an election in countries with a parliament based on proportional representation, which there are more of in the world than only Switzerland.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on December 06, 2017, 08:23:48 am
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/04/supreme-court-permits-full-enforcement-trump-travel-ban.html

Well... that took a while.

Was he really democratically elected though? He got way less votes than Hillary, Donald Trump is a president of the minority not the majority.

Also look up Felix Sater & Tevfik Arif.
Obviously he was democratically elected. That's been in our constitution for a while lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 06, 2017, 08:57:54 am
Muh constitution is purfect hur durr.
I know it's in the constitution but that doesn't change the fact that he was elected by the minority.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 06, 2017, 09:47:26 am
Muh constitution is purfect hur durr.
I know it's in the constitution but that doesn't change the fact that he was elected by the minority.
How many governments of major countries in the world actually use proportional representation?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 06, 2017, 10:52:25 am
In Europe... a lot.... Of course there are some practical rules such as a minimum percentage required of voting which gives a little boost to the bigger parties for the sake of practicality.... Some parliaments (like in Turkey) have a seat bonus to the largest party... again for practical purposes... The systems of the UK and US are kind of retarded though and the way of organising them is obsolete and could indeed be much more democratic than it is today.... though the ruling arguments are "hurrd muh consurvatism" and "It's worked for so long why change it"
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on December 06, 2017, 02:18:48 pm
Muh constitution is purfect hur durr.
I know it's in the constitution but that doesn't change the fact that he was elected by the minority.
That doesn't change the fact that America is the greatest country in the world with the greatest democracy ever  8)
But for real, this was setup to protect states rights, otherwise you'd have a few of the largest states deciding the election every year.  And states are still a thing, for example California probably didn't like the tax reform being passed because they have one of the highest state and local taxes (like 10% compared to my state 3%), and is just one of many reasons they'd prefer democrats (Florida the opposite with none).  So combine that with different cultural viewpoints (Bible belt, Appalachia, etc..) and a whole lot of embedded political reasons this system allows for their votes to matter.

Dems and republicans have won from minority popular vote, it ain't gonna change anytime (unless it's true and in 30 years we see 75% of the population in cities)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 06, 2017, 02:43:15 pm
No. What you just mentioned is why you have senators & house representatives, the electoral college is just a scam.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 06, 2017, 02:45:00 pm
I looked back at election results all the way to 1945 and not once has anybody got a vote share above 50% meaning, if we governed by proportional representation, no government would have had a majority. This is for the UK btw.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 06, 2017, 02:49:41 pm
That's why most countries with proportional voting have coalitions, just like how Conservatives now relies on DUP to get anything through parliament.
But there are generally more functional and established alliances in other European countries.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 06, 2017, 02:57:02 pm
That's why most countries with proportional voting have coalitions, just like how Conservatives now relies on DUP to get anything through parliament.
Which is why nobody ever gets anything done and voters are never left satisfied. If I vote for a party I don’t want somebody else holding them to ransom 24/7 over their major policy promises
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 06, 2017, 02:58:54 pm
A coalition generally make promises together and compensate to a degree it makes for more centrist politics for sure which can be boring in some cases but it's more democratic from my point of view therefore I find it better.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 06, 2017, 03:18:22 pm
The UK has literally been a testimony over the past few government terms to how much a coalition can fuck shit up
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 06, 2017, 03:41:58 pm
Nah you're just bad at it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 06, 2017, 04:03:42 pm
Nah you're just bad at it.
U wot
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 06, 2017, 04:37:10 pm
The UK has literally been a testimony over the past few government terms to how much a coalition can fuck shit up

NL had the proportional system for a while now and they still manage to get a coalition with 4 ruling parties... okay yeah this is where it really begins to strain but if the country is usedd to compromise (which I grant, is fairly hard for a culture of (ex) world powers) then it will make it work.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 06, 2017, 04:40:09 pm
Compromise can be a good thing at times but in British culture you’re either left wing or right wing, there isn’t really a party that bridges the gap very well and everyone hates each others guts too much to work together
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on December 06, 2017, 05:17:20 pm
No. What you just mentioned is why you have senators & house representatives, the electoral college is just a scam.
Lol you clearly don't understand the power of the executive branch and the impact of federal laws and regulations over state governments.  Senators and the House only do so much in terms of voting on behalf of their constituents, but there is a gazillion more issues that the president himself Must act on; that won't be effectively represented by ones senator or house of representative, and this forces candidates to campaign on a state by state basis. Why do you think trump won? Clinton campaigned in only big cities and already democratic strongholds, while trump went to middle America, small towns, etc... places which have different issues than others

It's not a perfect system by any means, but works best because of how our country is structured.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on December 06, 2017, 06:30:11 pm
the electoral college is just a scam.

The electoral college has been a mechanism from the beginning to trying to prevent pure, direct democracy - as its nothing but mismanagement by the mob; it also protects, in some small part, "geographic minorities" from getting brute forced in Federal politics. It's also the only reason we aren't even more fractured, or perhaps even already balkanized, as a country.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 06, 2017, 06:32:41 pm
the electoral college is just a scam.

The electoral college has been a mechanism from the beginning to trying to prevent pure, direct democracy - as its nothing but mismanagement by the mob; it also protects, in some small part, "geographic minorities" from getting brute forced in Federal politics. It's also the only reason we aren't even more fractured, or perhaps even already balkanized, as a country.

And was that its or was it beacuse direct citizen voting was too time-consuming and troublesome back then?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on December 06, 2017, 06:36:08 pm
I'm not so sure that holds much water. States are still going through all the trouble of holding elections, those votes are just not being calculated for a national plurality/majority. Amusingly, it was a measure to ensure that Virginia and its similar southern States would not impose its will through brute political force on New England (remembering that back then, Virginia was basically the mack daddy); it's basically the reverse now but it's the same purpose.

EDIT Also note that it wasn't even particularly difficult to hold election, as not many people even actually voted. Remember that it was restricted to adult white men who were at least (40? I can't remember the age requirement) and owned land or some form of real estate (house or business that wasn't rented).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 06, 2017, 09:02:19 pm
Quote
But for real, this was setup to protect states rights, otherwise you'd have a few of the largest states deciding the election every year.

Karth, even if that was true, the electoral college does a reaaaaaal shitty job of securing state's right. You just need the 13 biggest states to win over 270 electoral college. You can literally pretend 37 states do not exist and become the president. Of course, it doesn't work like that because, unlike what Americans like to imagine, there are no red or blue states and populations of states do not actually vote in one similair way.

The electoral college does two things:
1. Give a disproportional amount of power to the voters in smaller states. It doesn't actually give power to smaller states themselve, because states are merely electoral boundaries during the Presidential elections and it's the people who cast votes.
2. Marginalize electoral minorities. It's so funny that you praise the electoral college for 'allowing votes to matter' and point at the Bible belt. What about cities in Texas that are strongly Democratic? What about the rural areas of California that are strongly Republican? Their votes are completely meaningless.

I'm not so sure that holds much water. States are still going through all the trouble of holding elections, those votes are just not being calculated for a national plurality/majority. Amusingly, it was a measure to ensure that Virginia and its similar southern States would not impose its will through brute political force on New England (remembering that back then, Virginia was basically the mack daddy); it's basically the reverse now but it's the same purpose.

EDIT Also note that it wasn't even particularly difficult to hold election, as not many people even actually voted. Remember that it was restricted to adult white men who were at least (40? I can't remember the age requirement) and owned land or some form of real estate (house or business that wasn't rented).

Most states did not even hold popular elections for president, but had the state legislature elect the electors.



Can we also please stop the 'Coalition lead to unstable politics!!!'-meme. No, they don't. They only do in countries that are not used to coalitions, but even then the meme is mostly just shouted by politicians who are scared they won't receive a majority. "The weimar Republic!! Think of the Weimar Republic!!111". Guys, surprise, guess what; people are actually quite diverse in their political preferences and you can't really divide entire populations in just two political sides.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 06, 2017, 09:04:55 pm
Yeah even in California there's 30-35% Republicans who get's their votes nullified because winner takes all, like you said Duuring.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on December 06, 2017, 09:16:17 pm
None of that probably legitimate argument nullifies the electoral college, it just means it should be proportionate instead of winner take all. The U.S has the electoral college for the same reason Canada doesn’t - so massive politically homogeneous voting blocks don’t swing the election. Notice the big states don’t swing presidential elections, it’s the medium sized ones that do, usually in the Midwest, so having the most democratic and most populated state (I think) swing blue every election doesn’t automatically mean they win it for the candidate.

It’s also a fun thing to notice that after every election it’s the losing party that complains about the E.C, but not the winner. :thinking:
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 06, 2017, 09:19:11 pm
Complaining about massive politically homogenious voting blocks yet having a system that pretty much forces people into a massive politically homogenious voting block. Love it.

For the love of God stop argueing that states win elections. They don't. There are no 'swing states'. States do not swing. In the presidential elections, they are just geographical boundaries in which the population within that boundary happen to be roughly evenly divided politically. That's it. That's a swing state. You know the definition of a 'safe' state? It's a state in which the political division is so strongly in favour of one political side that everybody can just safely ignore their entire population and everything they want, because their electoral votes have been decided.

Quote
It’s also a fun thing to notice that after every election it’s the losing party that complains about the E.C, but not the winner. :thinking:

It's why people need to stop blindly repeating the arguments made by politicians. Electoral reform is so hard exactly because people lose the will to reform once the system favours them. That doesn't make the system suddenly fair. And then they just copy the same bullshit arguments of their opponents. "Majority systems create stronger trust in politics! They create stability!!!!1111 THINK OF THE WEIMAR REPUBLIC!!11".
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on December 06, 2017, 10:40:28 pm
"Majority systems create stronger trust in politics! They create stability!!!!1111 THINK OF THE WEIMAR REPUBLIC!!11".

I've heard of the Weimar Republic being used as refutation of some things, but not that. I can tell it perturbs you, though, from all those numerics.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 06, 2017, 10:52:39 pm
It's just a joke related to the fact that no matter how small a German political crisis can be, there will always be someone, usually a foreigner, mentioning the Weimar Republic. It's also always given as an example when people try to convince me of the evils of proportional representation and coalition governments. I specialize in comparative Political Science and electoral systems, so I have a lot of those discussions.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on December 06, 2017, 10:58:00 pm
"Majority systems create stronger trust in politics! They create stability!!!!1111 THINK OF THE WEIMAR REPUBLIC!!11".
52% of germans in 1932 voted for a party that was against democracy which is exactly what they got. Evening using popular vote Hitler would be justified enough to be named chancellor as his party was the most popular. Which wouldn't really change much.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 06, 2017, 11:04:06 pm
You don't have to convince me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 06, 2017, 11:06:19 pm
The most Hitler got in a "real" election was 44%.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 06, 2017, 11:08:23 pm
Proportional representation sucks, so does multi-party FPTP. The best electoral system is what the US has, i.e. two major parties within a FPTP voting system but with primary elections too. It's the primary elections that are the key feature since they tend to encourage there to be only two big tent main parties, which makes FPTP fair. Also your average American has far more democratic control over who represents them than your average European living in a PR system, since the American decides candidate selection too. That's not really possible under PR. Not only does that mean candidates who better reflect who they represent but it also keeps them honest after they're elected.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 06, 2017, 11:10:45 pm
You can at least in Sweden vote for whatever candidate you please that is from your province.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on December 06, 2017, 11:13:06 pm
Sweden is an illustrious example to all in these political climes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on December 06, 2017, 11:17:56 pm
The most Hitler got in a "real" election was 44%.
Yes but a total of 52% voted for NSDAP and KPD, both anti-democratic parties. So based on a strictly democratic mandate, Germany didn't want democracy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 06, 2017, 11:25:49 pm
Proportional representation sucks, so does multi-party FPTP. The best electoral system is what the US has, i.e. two major parties within a FPTP voting system but with primary elections too. It's the primary elections that are the key feature since they tend to encourage there to be only two big tent main parties, which makes FPTP fair. Also your average American has far more democratic control over who represents them than your average European living in a PR system, since the American decides candidate selection too. That's not really possible under PR. Not only does that mean candidates who better reflect who they represent but it also keeps them honest after they're elected.

The best system how? Give me one criteria in which the US electoral system objectively scores better then PR-systems.

Quote
Also your average American has far more democratic control over who represents them than your average European living in a PR system, since the American decides candidate selection too

We have preferential votes and party primaries too, so that's simply not true.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 06, 2017, 11:36:21 pm
Primary elections are rare in Europe, most places don't have them.

If you want just one example then the obvious benefit of two-party FPTP is you get what you vote for. It's clearly more democratic if you form your coalitions *within the party, before the general election* as voters know what they're getting. Under PR it's after the voting ends that they always have to hash out some kind of deal behind closed doors that pleases almost nobody.   
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 06, 2017, 11:55:01 pm
Ignoring the fact that a great share of voters within FPTP do not vote at all or do not vote for the party of their preference because it's unrealistic or it simply does not exist. FPTP kills off the alternatives and then you cry 'yay it's democratic now!'. You get what you voted for? Yeah, unless you happen to (wish to) vote for a third party.

Not to mention that governments coming to power in a FPTP system almost never actually gain the actual majority of votes. The Conservatives in 2015 got only 36.6%. Almost 2 of every 3 British voters who actually cast their vote (Because 1 in 3 of voters actually didn't even bother going to the polls) voted something else then Conservatives, yet the government consisted solely of Conservatives and persued only Conservative policies. With PR systems, the coalition government is the combined position of parties that actually represent a majority of the citizens.
'
No, nobody is happy with giving up on some policies, but guess what: That's life. People have very different opinions on matters. Those opinions needs to be represented, even if they do not become policy. That's the purpose of parliament. It's a farce to say 'well, that's too difficult!' and simply create a system in which small parties are killed off one by one until there are only two options left.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 07, 2017, 12:43:52 am
The most Hitler got in a "real" election was 44%.
Yes but a total of 52% voted for NSDAP and KPD, both anti-democratic parties. So based on a strictly democratic mandate, Germany didn't want democracy.

Well it makes sense if you look at the situation they were in and how they longed back to the empire era.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on December 07, 2017, 12:57:30 am
Complaining about massive politically homogenious voting blocks yet having a system that pretty much forces people into a massive politically homogenious voting block. Love it.

For the love of God stop argueing that states win elections. They don't. There are no 'swing states'. States do not swing. In the presidential elections, they are just geographical boundaries in which the population within that boundary happen to be roughly evenly divided politically. That's it. That's a swing state. You know the definition of a 'safe' state? It's a state in which the political division is so strongly in favour of one political side that everybody can just safely ignore their entire population and everything they want, because their electoral votes have been decided.

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It’s also a fun thing to notice that after every election it’s the losing party that complains about the E.C, but not the winner. :thinking:

It's why people need to stop blindly repeating the arguments made by politicians. Electoral reform is so hard exactly because people lose the will to reform once the system favours them. That doesn't make the system suddenly fair. And then they just copy the same bullshit arguments of their opponents. "Majority systems create stronger trust in politics! They create stability!!!!1111 THINK OF THE WEIMAR REPUBLIC!!11".
Of course there are swing states. The way I see it those states are those which don't vote consistently for party (such as NY, IL, CA) but the ones that play kingmaker in elections (FL, OH, WN). Those states fluctuate in voting patterns, and decide elections. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on December 07, 2017, 01:02:24 am
(https://i.imgur.com/m8zHls0.png)
Glad to see our opposition getting into the festive season.
Best donation advert I've seen yet.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on December 07, 2017, 06:30:45 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/fe4dbf5ba9f34ce0cfdabffc691cbbcf.png)

https://www.politico.eu/article/spds-martin-schulz-wants-united-states-of-europe-by-2025

Whoa! Who could have seen this coming?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on December 07, 2017, 07:21:56 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/fe4dbf5ba9f34ce0cfdabffc691cbbcf.png)

https://www.politico.eu/article/spds-martin-schulz-wants-united-states-of-europe-by-2025

Whoa! Who could have seen this coming?
I'm more concerned with the fact that the caption says Schulz is waving when he is actually giving the thumbs up.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on December 07, 2017, 07:31:55 pm
It's the new EUSSR salute!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 07, 2017, 07:44:10 pm
A united Europe is a great idea when you first hear it. But then you look at how we bicker amongst ourselves constantly and then I want to die
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on December 07, 2017, 07:45:07 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/fe4dbf5ba9f34ce0cfdabffc691cbbcf.png)

https://www.politico.eu/article/spds-martin-schulz-wants-united-states-of-europe-by-2025

Whoa! Who could have seen this coming?
Let that moronic alcoholic ramble in peace.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 07, 2017, 09:10:32 pm
Not to mention that governments coming to power in a FPTP system almost never actually gain the actual majority of votes. The Conservatives in 2015 got only 36.6%. Almost 2 of every 3 British voters who actually cast their vote (Because 1 in 3 of voters actually didn't even bother going to the polls) voted something else then Conservatives, yet the government consisted solely of Conservatives and persued only Conservative policies. With PR systems, the coalition government is the combined position of parties that actually represent a majority of the citizens.

UK politics is broken as it's multi-party within what's supposed to be a two-party system. We don't have primary elections as a corrective so factions of the Tories split off and formed UKIP etc. However it should be noted that in 2015 the main right-wing parties (Tories+UKIP+DUP) collectively got over 50% of the vote. Also having big-tent parties under a FPTP system gives voters more choice since you don't have major party machines shutting down the little guys but instead giving them a platform. Once Bernie Sanders worked out (better late than never lol) he was better off working within the Democratic Party than against it he almost made it to the White House, and his faction could quite conceivably win in 2020.

At least you're honest that PR just means backroom deal making after every election with one or two minor parties almost always being in government as they're needed to make up the numbers.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 08, 2017, 10:38:32 pm
Quote
Also having big-tent parties under a FPTP system gives voters more choice since you don't have major party machines shutting down the little guys but instead giving them a platform. Once Bernie Sanders worked out (better late than never lol) he was better off working within the Democratic Party than against it he almost made it to the White House, and his faction could quite conceivably win in 2020.

Party establishments always crack down on new movements, internal or external, because it threatens the division of power. Reforming a party is harder then starting a new one, which is why splits are common in politics. You know Bernie Sanders had to work within the Democratic party? Because FPTP kills off third parties. You literally praise FPTP for supposidly giving voters more choice by giving an example how it forced a third party movement to merge with an establishment party - and thus lessening the choices. Even if Bernie Sanders had won, the amount of choices wouldn't have expanded; It would have been a choice between Berniecrats and Republicans.

You seriously think there are no backroom deals in FPTP? Have you paid attention to British or American politics in the last 100 years? It's precisely the lack of alternatives that enables internal factions to squabble, fight and work behind closed doors without any real influence by voters. There is a pedophile running for the US Senate and he's probably going to win because people do not want to vote for the only alternative option.

Primaries really do not solve that, as their influence is marginal at best. For one, it doesn't actually create alternative options on election day. If you challenge a seated politician and win, well, yay for your faction and booh for the supporters of the just unseated politician. They now have to vote for the party they dislike, or the candidate they dislike. And let's not forget that primary challenges are more exception and rule, and succesful ones are even more rare.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 09, 2017, 12:16:19 am
It didn't lessen the choices as there were primary elections. Had Sanders run as a third party/independent he'd have been crushed. Having big-tent parties with primary elections means the infrastructure is already there for an outsider to come in and win, as happened with Trump/Obama/Bill Clinton etc. It's much more difficult to build up a new party from scratch.

Obviously I'm talking about backroom deals involving government formation and under FPTP it's rare. Literally at the end of every election under PR it's personality politics and backroom negotiations that shape what the government will look like. And the alleged paedophile did win a primary election in order to be chosen as the candidate.

I don't know how you can say primaries have marginal influence-really? If the US didn't have primary elections Clinton would have stitched up the nomination in 2008, and Jeb would have done so in 2016. Primary elections are constantly being won by candidates who are hated by their party establishments.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 09, 2017, 01:12:09 am
You focus too much on the presidential elections, an office the UK doesn't have. When you look at the congressional level, primary challenges are not really that common, let alone succesful ones. They're only really interesting once the incumbent doesn't run anymore and the seat is 'open'. Yeah, of course, once in a while a challenger wins and that's always a big deal exactly because it's so uncommon. And because primaries are pretty meaningless, people don't care about them: Turn-out in the USA 2014 (mid-terms are great because it actually shows interest in congressional elections and not just the presidential hype) was 18.7% of all registered voters. And because most people believe their vote is meaningless anyway, turn-out during the actual elections is also insanely low: around 35%. People stop voting if their vote is meaningless, and that's a direct consequence of having FPTP.

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Literally at the end of every election under PR it's personality politics and backroom negotiations that shape what the government will look like.

And the UK and the USA are anything different? Who decided Johnson would become Foreign Secretary? Surely no backroom deals were involved there, were there?

Quote
Having big-tent parties with primary elections means the infrastructure is already there for an outsider to come in and win,

But you're really kidding yourself when you think big-tent parties actually represent all the people they gain votes from.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 09, 2017, 01:15:56 am
Are you telling me the UK doesn’t have a presidential election?

All this time..

I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR YEARS
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Karth on December 09, 2017, 05:21:31 am
Then what country has the 'best' working model for elections?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 09, 2017, 11:57:04 am
There isn't really a universal best system. National preferences and context always have an influence. Open-list PR is good because it is hard to manipulate (which is why autocratic regimes love FPTP) and it makes it easy for people to have their actuel views become represented in parliament. You lose your 'own' representative, yes, but gain representatives that actually share your views on matters and are just as approachable. If you really want local representation (though it's far more effective to just have strong local government), multi-member STV is the best for that. Ireland uses that system and their parliament is pretty diverse.

If I could reform the US system all by myself, I'd probably experiment with open-list PR on the local and state level and AV on the national level and see how it works. I'd also expand the number of seats on the local level which in the USA are really small. Oh, and make better rules on financial donations. Electoral systems aren't everything.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on December 09, 2017, 01:17:34 pm
Agreed. There's no reason that politics should ever be based around a system which only works with two parties. There's no room for change and you get increasingly polarised politics (see the US). It just turns into a partisan Us vs Them and the winner is whoever spends more money or nowadays whoever mines Facebook better (Brexit, the recent election and iirc the US election).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 09, 2017, 02:45:21 pm
You focus too much on the presidential elections, an office the UK doesn't have. When you look at the congressional level, primary challenges are not really that common, let alone succesful ones. They're only really interesting once the incumbent doesn't run anymore and the seat is 'open'. Yeah, of course, once in a while a challenger wins and that's always a big deal exactly because it's so uncommon. And because primaries are pretty meaningless, people don't care about them: Turn-out in the USA 2014 (mid-terms are great because it actually shows interest in congressional elections and not just the presidential hype) was 18.7% of all registered voters. And because most people believe their vote is meaningless anyway, turn-out during the actual elections is also insanely low: around 35%. People stop voting if their vote is meaningless, and that's a direct consequence of having FPTP.

Quote
Literally at the end of every election under PR it's personality politics and backroom negotiations that shape what the government will look like.

And the UK and the USA are anything different? Who decided Johnson would become Foreign Secretary? Surely no backroom deals were involved there, were there?

Quote
Having big-tent parties with primary elections means the infrastructure is already there for an outsider to come in and win,

But you're really kidding yourself when you think big-tent parties actually represent all the people they gain votes from.

American turnout has always been low, that's probably more to do with the education system and poor diet. Most primary challenges aren't successful because lawmakers know not to get on the wrong side of voters-that's a massive incentive for them to behave and it clearly works. How Johnson became Foreign Sec has nothing to do with the electoral system.

Actually big tent parties do represent the people who vote for them-there's much more diversity in the US Democrats than there is in the British Liberal Democrats. Same goes for US Republicans vs UK Tories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factions_in_the_Democratic_Party_(United_States)



Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 09, 2017, 05:39:24 pm
Quote
American turnout has always been low, that's probably more to do with the education system and poor diet. Most primary challenges aren't successful because lawmakers know not to get on the wrong side of voters-that's a massive incentive for them to behave and it clearly works.

They aren't succesful because people don't care about them, or about their representatives in general. So it's easier to just stick with the incumbent. It doesn't help that people don't know who represents them. 2/3s of Americans can't name their representative, and almost half don't even know their party affiliation. People don't care about who represents their district, they want someone to represent their views.

Quote
Actually big tent parties do represent the people who vote for them-there's much more diversity in the US Democrats than there is in the British Liberal Democrats. Same goes for US Republicans vs UK Tories.

But that 'diversity' is almost entirely irrelevant for the voters and the power of an internal faction is never the same as that of an independent party. Yes, sometimes they are challenged in primaries and yes, sometimes that challenge is succesful. But if you want a parliament that actually properly represents the people, you cannot do this with FPTP. Adding primaries adds only the slighest of differences. Besides, research on internal elections in European context show that their effect is almost entirely non-existent because party influence remains strong and interest in internal elections remains low. Even in the Dutch Greens, who have completely democraticized the process, barely 30% of members cast a vote.

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How Johnson became Foreign Sec has nothing to do with the electoral system.


You complain PR makes the creation of a government shady and full of backroom deals yet the creation of the British government has absolutely nothing to do with the electoral system. Right.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 09, 2017, 09:23:53 pm
Looks like Germany is leaving the EU lol.

(https://i.gyazo.com/d7934a3bc417c7a50e8578e4e2fcb7e1.png)
(https://i.gyazo.com/5535d44cb027b1e795bc0bb7f1c697e9.png)
(https://i.gyazo.com/2b31c763eefdd7b259f60afdedf88896.png)

Gonna have to agree to disagree on PR/FPTP. I only note that the US Congress has far more competing factional and ideological interests than most parliaments formed by PR. The Bundestag has only 6 parties represented within it (7 if you count CSU as distinct from CDU). The point about PR is the same two parties end up forming a government, so it comes down to who is going to be the junior coalition partner. It's really a choice between small parties exerting levels of influence they don't deserve (PR) or big parties doing the same thing (FPTP). US system seems to be a sensible compromise.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 09, 2017, 09:42:45 pm
DeutschlandAusfahrt isn’t as catchy as Brexit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on December 09, 2017, 10:13:03 pm
DeutschlandAusfahrt isn’t as catchy as Brexit
What kind of Google Translate did you rape?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Toffee on December 09, 2017, 10:28:40 pm
DeutschlandAusfahrt isn’t as catchy as Brexit
What kind of Google Translate did you rape?
I just put Germany and exit together xD
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on December 09, 2017, 10:31:54 pm
DeutschlandAusfahrt isn’t as catchy as Brexit
What kind of Google Translate did you rape?
I just put Germany and exit together xD
lmao.

As I said earlier tho, dont take anything serious that comes out of Martin Schulz mouth. After the elections he said he doesnt want to allign with CDU/CSU, now he rethinks. The man is a laughing stock, barely anyone takes him serious here
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on December 09, 2017, 11:18:20 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/5766dfb85f92213db5dbf6193b75cf0e.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on December 09, 2017, 11:31:06 pm
Anyone else thinks that M. Schulz always lowkey looks like he is about to off himself?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 10, 2017, 12:11:32 am
Maybe Schultz just wants to avoid having to form a coalition with Merkel and so throws this out so that Merkel will refuse.

Quote
US system seems to be a sensible compromise.

Are we seriously talking about the same US? Even the UK currently is better because it has some diversity due to regional contexts. You also focus too much on parliaments role in governing, instead of parliament's true purpose: Representation and law-making.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Now with fresh poll!
Post by: Duuring on December 10, 2017, 09:27:38 pm
Added a poll on the german elections.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Now with fresh poll!
Post by: Conway on December 10, 2017, 09:54:11 pm
That 4th option fucking killed me
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Now with fresh poll!
Post by: Toffee on December 14, 2017, 05:26:41 pm
Theresa loses in the commons with her own backbenchers being the catalyst.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Now with fresh poll!
Post by: Theodin on December 14, 2017, 05:50:37 pm
Theresa loses in the commons with her own backbenchers being the catalyst.
Worrisome but not the end of the world
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Now with fresh poll!
Post by: Edwin on December 14, 2017, 07:27:19 pm
Theresa loses in the commons with her own backbenchers being the catalyst.

I'll be worried if you are genuinely surprised by this.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Now with fresh poll!
Post by: Toffee on December 14, 2017, 07:29:52 pm
Theresa loses in the commons with her own backbenchers being the catalyst.

I'll be worried if you are genuinely surprised by this.
I'm not, I never said I was. Just commenting on it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Now with fresh poll!
Post by: MrTiki on December 15, 2017, 03:14:48 pm
But I wanted Parliament to be sovereign, and now they're meddling by having another vote to prove their sovereignty and that's not why I voted to Brexit >:(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Now with fresh poll!
Post by: Dark_Knight on December 15, 2017, 03:31:20 pm
Brexiters gonna be brexilated  :o
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Now with fresh poll!
Post by: Theodin on December 15, 2017, 04:25:22 pm
But I wanted Parliament to be sovereign, and now they're meddling by having another vote to prove their sovereignty and that's not why I voted to Brexit >:(
^
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Now with fresh poll!
Post by: StevenChilton on December 15, 2017, 07:22:21 pm
But I wanted Parliament to be sovereign, and now they're meddling by having another vote to prove their sovereignty and that's not why I voted to Brexit >:(

Dunno why people are mad over this-Parliament can say either 'yes' or 'no' on the final deal. That's it. It's not really something you can say 'no' to anyway as it's either the deal on offer or WTO rules. The only thing those pro-EU rebels have done is to make a 'Hard' Brexit a bit more likely. As I understand it there was going to be a vote on it anyway, so this is political posturing that may come back to bite Soubry/Clarke/etc on the ass by 2019.

 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Now with fresh poll!
Post by: Duuring on December 17, 2017, 12:00:59 am
Guess it's time for a brexit poll

Quote
Dunno why people are mad over this-Parliament can say either 'yes' or 'no' on the final deal. That's it. It's not really something you can say 'no' to anyway as it's either the deal on offer or WTO rules.

Or the UK has to negotiate a new deal and Brexit gets postponed.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Now with fresh poll!
Post by: StevenChilton on December 17, 2017, 12:36:08 am
Guess it's time for a brexit poll

Quote
Dunno why people are mad over this-Parliament can say either 'yes' or 'no' on the final deal. That's it. It's not really something you can say 'no' to anyway as it's either the deal on offer or WTO rules.

Or the UK has to negotiate a new deal and Brexit gets postponed.

Perhaps, although when it comes down to it Corbyn will whip his MPs to vote for the Brexit deal (probably with a bit of 'wish the deal were better, oh well' spin) as will May. Would take a miracle for Parliament to vote it down, after all they did vote 5 to 1 to trigger Article 50. If Labour had a competent Blairite leading it I think there'd have been a significant chance of Brexit being reversed. But instead it's Corbyn, who has been anti-EU his entire political career and we wouldn't have won the referendum without him. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on December 23, 2017, 01:06:50 am
https://www.facebook.com/help/1991443604424859

Looks like Zuckerberg has finally given into pressure from the EU and US Democrats (though it's no secret that he's never been the most steadfast fellow).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on December 23, 2017, 01:38:18 pm
You say that like you want foreign involvement in your politics. Sure the Russians exposed the DNC (in an illegal way btw) but they also spread tons and tons of misinformation through different medias such as Facebook. They did the same thing during the French election to support Le Pen.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on December 23, 2017, 02:22:11 pm
I don't mind public foreign involvement in our politics. Nothing would kill off electoral changes for a Dutch politician more then being endorsed by Putin.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on December 23, 2017, 02:30:00 pm
You say that like you want foreign involvement in your politics. Sure the Russians exposed the DNC (in an illegal way btw) but they also spread tons and tons of misinformation through different medias such as Facebook.

Well first of all, I think it's shameful that a third party had to intervene and expose the criminal activity of the DNC and its politicians. As such, I hope we both share the opinion that such activities should have been much more widely covered by the American media, regardless of how the information was acquired (I understand that using criminal methods to incriminate an individual(s) is contradictory in a sense, but this is the DNC we're talking about, and think of the implications of such people holding one of the most powerful offices in the world). I don't believe Russia did hack the DNC in fact; government hackers as adept as Russia's certainly do not leave digital breadcrumbs.

As for the recent developments of Facebook, I ask that you consider this: is your political agenda more important than free speech? Historically speaking, AI-assisted crackdown of "misinformation" has always led to an Orwellian-esque crackdown of political views that oppose that of the platform hosting the AI and such opinions. The most prominent example of this is when Google rolled out its own AI to combat 'misinformation' and 'fake news' - then went on to wage to war against users and channels refuting Google's propaganda funneling through YouTube. Twitter used to do the same thing but has toned it down massively, most likely as a result of people from both sides of the spectrum ditching it.

They did the same thing during the French election to support Le Pen.

Let's be honest: there were far more ads against Trump and Le Pen on social media platforms than there were for. Overwhelmingly so for Brexit. The influence of Russia has been massively overstated.
 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on December 23, 2017, 02:40:56 pm
The right to free speech doesn't cover lying.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on December 23, 2017, 03:01:28 pm
Correct, and I have no objection to the elimination of misinformation and fake news. It's when legitimate criticisms and arguments start getting brushed under the rug too that I get concerned.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on December 23, 2017, 05:50:27 pm
So sue Facebook if it compromises free speech. We still have a rule of law.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on December 23, 2017, 05:52:31 pm
"Just leave the EU!", "Just sue the conglomerate!"

You have a fetish for unfeasible absolutes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on December 23, 2017, 06:01:50 pm
No, I have a fetish for pointing out that for many of your concerns there are clear legal provisions to protect against bad things and a track-record of about seventy years of protecting political rights through the rule of law. Facebook doesn't infract upon free speech until it does, at which point it can be legally forced to change its policies. Just like any other legal entity. Your concern should be by making sure that A. those legal limits aren't moved and B. rule of law remains a thing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on December 23, 2017, 07:24:41 pm
You say that like you want foreign involvement in your politics. Sure the Russians exposed the DNC (in an illegal way btw) but they also spread tons and tons of misinformation through different medias such as Facebook.

Well first of all, I think it's shameful that a third party had to intervene and expose the criminal activity of the DNC and its politicians. As such, I hope we both share the opinion that such activities should have been much more widely covered by the American media, regardless of how the information was acquired (I understand that using criminal methods to incriminate an individual(s) is contradictory in a sense, but this is the DNC we're talking about, and think of the implications of such people holding one of the most powerful offices in the world). I don't believe Russia did hack the DNC in fact; government hackers as adept as Russia's certainly do not leave digital breadcrumbs.

As for the recent developments of Facebook, I ask that you consider this: is your political agenda more important than free speech? Historically speaking, AI-assisted crackdown of "misinformation" has always led to an Orwellian-esque crackdown of political views that oppose that of the platform hosting the AI and such opinions. The most prominent example of this is when Google rolled out its own AI to combat 'misinformation' and 'fake news' - then went on to wage to war against users and channels refuting Google's propaganda funneling through YouTube. Twitter used to do the same thing but has toned it down massively, most likely as a result of people from both sides of the spectrum ditching it.

I don't think what the DNC was doing was illegal?? (If it was I'd assume the DNC chair lady would have been imprisoned?) Not sure though. Either way yes it's good that it got exposed so that hopefully something get's done about it, but I doubt it will.

Correct, and I have no objection to the elimination of misinformation and fake news. It's when legitimate criticisms and arguments start getting brushed under the rug too that I get concerned.

Yet you support Trump.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on December 23, 2017, 07:53:32 pm
What are the odds on Catalan independence by 2020? Everything Rajoy does just makes it even more likely, Spain's PM is totally incompetent.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on December 23, 2017, 08:54:55 pm
Same odds as Kurdistan (almost).  :'(

Unless the EU somehow decides to support Catalonia.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on December 23, 2017, 09:09:40 pm
Why would it? It's an internal Spanish affair and the only ones opposing the rule of law are the seperatists.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on December 23, 2017, 09:27:57 pm
Why would it? It's an internal Spanish affair and the only ones opposing the rule of law are the seperatists.

Well, opposing the rule of law in the same way the East Berliners did in 1989....

Catalan Separatists keep winning elections. This is the fourth time in a row the separatist parties have won an overall majority in the regional parliament. Madrid can't keep playing this game.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on December 23, 2017, 09:38:40 pm
Present-day Spain is the same as the DDR? Context matters.

Quote
Catalan Separatists keep winning elections. This is the fourth time in a row the separatist parties have won an overall majority in the regional parliament. Madrid can't keep playing this game.

They can, and they will.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on December 23, 2017, 10:21:16 pm
You can't hold people against their will, if you keep doing that then things will get ugly and Rajoy has already had to resort to violence. Do you seriously believe that Madrid's current policy won't lead to more violence?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on December 23, 2017, 10:44:46 pm
Haven’t had a good Spanish civil war in a while
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on December 23, 2017, 10:54:46 pm
But at least half the electorate doesn't actually support independence. You can't drag people out of a country against their will and it's retarded to think will not get uglier if Rajoy let's Catalonia go (not that he really can).

Look, whether Catalonia leaves Spain or not is not really my business or my concern. But looking at it objectively, the only way for Catalonia to be internationally recogized (and create a relationship with the EU, which is obviously needs to do) is if it leaves with the full agreement of Spain. I'm sure we agree on this, regardless of whether Spain does this willingly or due to foreign pressure.

To do this, Spain needs to alter its constitution: "The Constitution is based on the indissoluble unity of the Spanish Nation, the common and indivisible homeland of all Spaniards". They need to change that. Even if they add an amendment, it's likely the Spanish Supreme Court will rule that any amendment allowing seperation from Spain is in conflict with the above section. And that title falls under the protected provision, requiring a 2/3 majority in both houses, a general election, again a 2/3 majority in both houses and then a referendum in all of Spain. In other words: Impossible.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on December 23, 2017, 11:30:06 pm
You can't hold a people forever under a constitution they don't consider theirs.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on December 23, 2017, 11:45:22 pm
At least half are against it? Come on, there's probably a small majority in favour of independence hence why the separatists have won four elections in a row. If Madrid thought there was a pro-Spain majority they'd have called a referendum and won.

You can't keep a country together via constitutional law and that's not a good reason to overrule democracy. Anyway the EU is constantly proving that legally impossible things can happen extremely easily when there's a political need. I used to believe in the 'sanctity of the law' stuff too until I realised it gets trampled all the time and only brought up when it's convenient.

There's only really one or two ways out of this, which is:
a) Madrid calls a referendum and gambles on a win for Spanish unity, or
b) Madrid and Barcelona agree on a gradual separation that takes years


Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on December 23, 2017, 11:57:33 pm
Won by incredibly small margins. Yes, it's entirely possible 51% of the people in Catalonia support independence, maybe even 52%, but more then that? There are several districts with strong pro-unity votes, including the whole city of Barcelona. Are you really expecting that 45-48% of people to just accept illegal secession?

Quote
Anyway the EU is constantly proving that legally impossible things can happen extremely easily when there's a political need.

Like?

Quote
If Madrid thought there was a pro-Spain majority they'd have called a referendum and won.

They wouldn't, because they can't. There are no legal provisions for having a referendum for independence and any attempt for it would get bogged down in the Supreme Court for years. Even if Rajoy wanted to, he couldn't call a referendum. And fact is that he actually doesn't want to. So it's not happening.

Quote
b) Madrid and Barcelona agree on a gradual separation that takes years

Which requires constitutional change. Any attempt to do so without changing the constitutions means, again, the whole thing will for sure go to the Surpreme Court of Spain. Which has never looked kindly on seperatism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on December 24, 2017, 01:15:26 am
Won by incredibly small margins. Yes, it's entirely possible 51% of the people in Catalonia support independence, maybe even 52%, but more then that? There are several districts with strong pro-unity votes, including the whole city of Barcelona. Are you really expecting that 45-48% of people to just accept illegal secession?

Quote
Anyway the EU is constantly proving that legally impossible things can happen extremely easily when there's a political need.

Like?

Germany and France breaking Maastricht debt to GDP rules, Greece and Italy's admittance to the Eurozone, Italian 2016/2017 bank bailouts, EU Airbus subsidies, ECB's 2015 closure of Greek banks...need I go on? All of those things were illegal yet everyone looked the other way because it was politically convenient to do so.

When there's a will there's a way. Legal difficulty is no excuse, especially when the law isn't really taken that seriously in modern Europe.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on December 24, 2017, 02:43:05 am
It's called realism. You can't always play by the book to achieve what you want, it''s just silly to believe that just because it's in the constitution it's unfix-able.
So having said that I do not believe that the Spanish constitution can hold Catalonia hostage forever, should the independence movement keep going.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on December 24, 2017, 11:12:23 am
The EU lacks enforcement, sure, but Spain, with its rather active supreme court, does not.  You really think the EU is going to command Spain to break its own constitutional law? More importantly, do you want that?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on December 24, 2017, 03:50:02 pm
The EU lacks enforcement, sure, but Spain, with its rather active supreme court, does not.  You really think the EU is going to command Spain to break its own constitutional law? More importantly, do you want that?

The EU can punish member states when it wants to it just doesn't apply the rules equally. Spain can fudge it, it's not actually that hard these days to ignore the law, and the EU doesn't need to get involved.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on December 24, 2017, 05:00:53 pm
And Euros mock US constitutionalists
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on December 24, 2017, 08:37:44 pm
And Euros mock US constitutionalists
To be fair not many EU countries give their citizens constitutional rights to hellfire missiles and nuclear bombs.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on December 24, 2017, 09:30:19 pm
And Euros mock US constitutionalists
To be fair not many EU countries give their citizens constitutional rights to hellfire missiles and nuclear bombs.
Not sure who does
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on December 24, 2017, 11:01:42 pm
And Euros mock US constitutionalists
To be fair not many EU countries give their citizens constitutional rights to hellfire missiles and nuclear bombs.
Not sure who does
"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
arms: weapons and ammunition, armaments
Under the U.S constitution, you can own hellfire missiles. Friend of mine met a guy who bought 16 and attached them to his helicopter for cosmetic purposes. They ended up getting confiscated due to him being a threat to national security.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on December 24, 2017, 11:18:36 pm
The EU can punish member states when it wants to it just doesn't apply the rules equally. Spain can fudge it, it's not actually that hard these days to ignore the law, and the EU doesn't need to get involved.


EU rules, not national laws, and only through a procedure that's very difficult because member states are still the most powerful entities within the EU. But answer the question; do you WANT the EU to force Spain to break its own constitution if it refuses to? Because no Spanish politician is going to break their own constitution to let a bunch of Catalans run off with part of their country.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on December 25, 2017, 12:37:53 am
Nope, I've said the EU should not get involved. If Brussels didn't have the moral courage to stand up to Spain after the police were filmed assaulting civilians en masse (an infringement of the fundamental rights of EU citizens as set out in Lisbon if ever there was one, and yet another example of the EU ignoring its own rules for political ease) then as an organisation it's not really much use.

Member states as a whole are not the most powerful entity, it's literally just Germany and France who call the shots. Constitutions and laws get bent/broken all the time (how else do you think we ended up with the Euro, Lisbon, the bailout packages, etc?) so I don't get why this is somehow an immovable obstacle when it comes to Catalonia.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on December 25, 2017, 12:41:24 am
Nope, I've said the EU should not get involved. If Brussels didn't have the moral courage to stand up to Spain after the police were filmed assaulting civilians en masse (an infringement of the fundamental rights of EU citizens as set out in Lisbon if ever there was one, and yet another example of the EU ignoring its own rules for political ease)

The use of violence is not an infringement of any fundamental rights. The police can slam you in your face in full accordance with national and international law. I don't understand why this concept is so hard for people to understand. The referendum was illegal=the police can actually shut down voting stations=the police can actually use proportional violence if people physically resist. No laws or fundamental rights are broken by doing this. If people think that the violence was unproportional, they can sue the state.

Whether the use of violence something you want is something else entirely, but hey, this very same Catalan regional government had no problem with sending the police to shut down voting stations a few years ago when some local referendum was held in Barcelona. Of course, the entire point of filming the police using their legal rights is just to frame them as a bunch of baddies while you're actually breaking the law yourself. "BUT GUYS, VOTING IS NEVER ILLEGAL!11". It can be. And it was. There is rule of law, not rule of majority.

And you know what's the stupidest thing? All these people screaming bloody murder about the EU not doing anything in Spain yet doing the exact same thing when the EU does something about actual roll-backs on the rule of law in Poland. Whatever the EU does, it's the baddie. Somehow, just somehow, I'm a 100% sure those people would be waving Spanish flags and screaming how the EU should not interfer with internal Spanish affairs if it had gotten involved. The stupidity and hypocriscy is nauseating.

Explain to me how constitutional law has been broken by Lisbon or bailout packages. I'm curious.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on December 25, 2017, 02:43:03 am
State exercise of violence has to be proportional and limited, and within the EU that's built in twice over in both the Charter of Fundamental Rights and the ECHR. Shutting down a vote by entering polling stations and seizing ballot boxes is perfectly legal, but Spanish police then went on to attack demonstrators in public places with excessive force. That clearly violates right to assembly, right to be free from torture (which covers police brutality) and probably right to human dignity too. Catalans can indeed sue the state and hundreds are doing so. You might think it's perfectly legal but Human Rights Watch does not: https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/10/12/spain-police-used-excessive-force-catalonia

A lot of experts seem to think Spain has a case to answer too: https://www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/171101_LETTER-TUSK-JUNCKER-FINAL1.pdf

All the EU needs to do is apply the law equally. That's it. Could you imagine if the US Federal Govt continually let California off the hook for stuff but always came down hard on Oklahoma or Idaho? Not sure what you mean by Lisbon (ratification process?-not illegal, but clearly bent the law *almost* to breaking point in places) or by constitutional law since a lot of this isn't a constitutional issue.
In terms of illegality in general EU bailouts have broken the law numerous times. ECB actions in 2015 over the Greek bailout were almost certainly illegal. Draghi even commissioned legal advice which he now refuses to make public, so he probably knowingly acted illegally too which makes it even worse. Italy's bailout of its own banks also broke state aid rules but was given a pass by the EU Commission.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on December 25, 2017, 12:35:13 pm
No, like I said

Quote
the police can actually use proportional violence if people physically resist. No laws or fundamental rights are broken by doing this. If people think that the violence was unproportional, they can sue the state.

Spanish and European Courts work perfectly fine as far as I know, so other EU institution do not need to (and should not) interfere. Whether violence was proportional or not is a legal matter, not a political one. I oppose the (rather widespread) notion that police action is police brutality by default. I'm not saying everything Spain did in the course of this period was perfectly unquestionably legal. There needs to be due process, and if the courts decide the violence was unproportional, then obviously, it was illegal. But none of this would have happened in the 1st place if the Catalan regional government hadn't pushed on with their unquestionably illegal referendum.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on December 25, 2017, 03:06:10 pm
No, like I said

Quote
the police can actually use proportional violence if people physically resist. No laws or fundamental rights are broken by doing this. If people think that the violence was unproportional, they can sue the state.

Spanish and European Courts work perfectly fine as far as I know, so other EU institution do not need to (and should not) interfere. Whether violence was proportional or not is a legal matter, not a political one. I oppose the (rather widespread) notion that police action is police brutality by default. I'm not saying everything Spain did in the course of this period was perfectly unquestionably legal. There needs to be due process, and if the courts decide the violence was unproportional, then obviously, it was illegal. But none of this would have happened in the 1st place if the Catalan regional government hadn't pushed on with their unquestionably illegal referendum.

That would hold were it not for the fact that the EU Commission acts as the guardian of the treaties, and therefore sues member states when such rights are infringed. You can't sit it out if you're the enforcer.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on December 25, 2017, 06:53:34 pm
But rights are not infringed upon if A. the courts work according to B. certain standards.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on December 25, 2017, 08:30:57 pm
But rights are not infringed upon if A. the courts work according to B. certain standards.

The bulk of expert opinion thinks Spanish police acted illegally, so I don't know what to tell you. The EU Commission is the guardian of the treaties and if they're unwilling to act then that's pretty significant. The whole crisis encapsulates the EU's biggest flaw, i.e. that there's no European demos and it's literally just a club for several big countries to try and dominate everyone else. The rules don't apply to France/Spain/Germany/Italy the same way they do to Poland or Greece. Say what you like about the British but we almost always played fair and met our obligations as EU members. We didn't sign up to stuff only to almost immediately go back on our word, unlike certain other countries.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on December 30, 2017, 02:19:00 pm
The whole catalonia thing is nothing but tje littel kid throwing a tantrum again. The siatuation as-is is non-sustainable for the catalan government. The organisation of tje police in the country doesnt help either. Catalan police was almost pitted against the Guardia Civil in the Barcelona protests and loom what a minor accident in that regard could've done: it could've turned two police forces against each other giving tje national government an excuse to say Catalonia has gone rogue. Without overwhelming support from the people, Catalonia cannot become independant. And as it stands, they don't have an overwhelming majority.

I'll wait until the tanks come rolling into Barcelona and I'll just hope nothing happens while I am tjere during New Year's  :D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on December 30, 2017, 05:48:31 pm
Excellent summation/analysis of where we're at in the West (imo):

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/12/20/populism-is-a-problem-elitist-technocrats-arent-the-solution/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on January 02, 2018, 09:58:26 pm
Build a wall 1,500 barriers!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/york-install-1-500-more-sidewalk-barriers-vehicle-190926658.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on January 02, 2018, 10:01:58 pm
In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the European Union will be reorganized into the first United European Empire, for a safe and secure society, which I assure you will last for ten thousand years
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on January 02, 2018, 10:10:32 pm
In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the European Union will be reorganized into the first United European Empire, for a safe and secure society, which I assure you will last for ten thousand years

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.images.express.co.uk%2Fimg%2Fdynamic%2F78%2F590x%2Fsecondary%2FMartin-Schulz-942955.jpg&hash=2162015e6bcf71c9d7291903050d83ec0faf642f)
[close]

"I love democracy. I love the Union. The power you give me I will lay down once the United Kingdom has been abated. And as my first act with this new authority, I will create a grand army of the union, in order to counter the increasing threat of the Brexiteers."
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 06, 2018, 02:08:37 pm
German politics at the moment is making Theresa May look strong and stable. What are the odds on Merkel resigning in less than 6 months?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Tharan on January 07, 2018, 09:36:48 pm
I wonder how badly the uk cabinet shuffle will go tomorrow
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 11, 2018, 01:29:33 am
In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the European Union will be reorganized into the first United European Empire, for a safe and secure society, which I assure you will last for ten thousand years

Complains about EU democracy while living in an oligarchy, lol.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 11, 2018, 02:02:09 am
In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the European Union will be reorganized into the first United European Empire, for a safe and secure society, which I assure you will last for ten thousand years

Complains about EU democracy while living in an oligarchy, lol.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=american+political+system
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 11, 2018, 03:03:14 pm
Yeah it's not like coperations are sponsering politicians campaigns and lobbies in congress or anything.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 11, 2018, 03:05:30 pm
Yeah it's not like coperations are sponsering politicians campaigns and lobbies in congress or anything.
Ah yes, because money in politics suddenly changes the whole system from a republic to an oligarchy. Cool
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 12, 2018, 01:30:22 am
Seems like you're oblivious to the state of US politics.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 12, 2018, 04:49:12 am
Seems like you're oblivious to the state of US politics.
Because a Swede knows better, and a Swede with a history of anti-Americanism to begin with. You're doing great, sweetie.
There is obviously a question of how much money influences policy, but it's more complicated than declaring a republican democracy as an oligarchy because your views make that a reality.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on January 12, 2018, 09:18:27 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42664173

Did he really say it, FSE?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 12, 2018, 09:31:30 pm
Those who think he did: anonymous aides, Dick Durbin (D)
Those who think he didn’t: three Republican lawmakers
Hyperpartisanship, everybody! Making truth what your side wants it to be
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 13, 2018, 12:29:48 am
Seems like you're oblivious to the state of US politics.
Because a Swede knows better, and a Swede with a history of anti-Americanism to begin with. You're doing great, sweetie.
There is obviously a question of how much money influences policy, but it's more complicated than declaring a republican democracy as an oligarchy because your views make that a reality.

Given the suspiciously large amounts of money that gets spent in American elections, and the suspiciously large number of American politicians who are related to one another, it's probably fair to say the US is verging on being an oligarchy and has been for some time. Because you need a lot of money to run for political office in the US that tends to encourage political inbreeding, hence why the Bush/Kennedy/Clinton/etc families tend to cultivate their own donor networks. The same people who funded Bush '88/'92 & Bush '00/'04 also funded Bush '16, and obviously those donors expect a quid pro quo arrangement. Ironically the US has ended up with its own very powerful de facto aristocracy whereas in Britain aristocrats are mostly poor people with fancy surnames living in big, decrepit mansions.

USA should do what the UK does-give political donors knighthoods not legislation ;)   
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 13, 2018, 12:57:36 am
Or a donation limit like Canada
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 13, 2018, 02:51:51 am
Those who think he did: anonymous aides, Dick Durbin (D)
Those who think he didn’t: three Republican lawmakers
Hyperpartisanship, everybody! Making truth what your side wants it to be

I don't care for the wording of what he said.
The context is what is interesting, limiting immigration for all lower income countries seem to me like it would kill the idea of the American dream.
It doesn't seem like it's an idea Americans are that interested in maintaining anymore though anyways.

Seems like you're oblivious to the state of US politics.
Because a Swede knows better, and a Swede with a history of anti-Americanism to begin with. You're doing great, sweetie.
There is obviously a question of how much money influences policy, but it's more complicated than declaring a republican democracy as an oligarchy because your views make that a reality.

Aren't you Canadian? Just because I'm a Swede I can't give my opinion like Americans give their opinion on the EU constantly?
Anyhow sure the US is a democracy in theory but rich people do finance politicians campaigns and control all mainstream media. So if the US is a democracy in reality is a though question to answer.

I'm split on what I think of the US I defiantly prefer the US over Russia or China so should Sweden ever choose to join Nato I would support it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 13, 2018, 03:58:46 am
Tbh the US is still more democratic than Sweden, which is barely a democracy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 13, 2018, 04:17:04 am
US politics is a tough one, to me it seems ludicrous that companies basically buy votes from people and it's all perfectly legal but it's in the constitution I suppose so there you go.

It's difficult to gage if Trump's actually said what he's accused of, there's no real way to prove either way. However, if he did indeed make that remark then that's extremely worrying that a man like that is the most powerful in the world.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 13, 2018, 06:32:04 am
Tbh the US is still more democratic than Sweden, which is barely a democracy.
Please do explain your reasoning behind that statement.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 13, 2018, 03:50:45 pm
Tbh the US is still more democratic than Sweden, which is barely a democracy.
Please do explain your reasoning behind that statement.

Sure-how many EU Commissioners could you vote for? Is there a mechanism for you as a voter to remove them from office if you don't like what they're doing?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 13, 2018, 05:50:57 pm
Quote
Sure-how many British ministers could you vote for? Is there a mechanism for you as a voter to remove them from office if you don't like what they're doing?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 13, 2018, 06:19:43 pm
Quote
Sure-how many British ministers could you vote for? Is there a mechanism for you as a voter to remove them from office if you don't like what they're doing?
Yes, ministers are also MPs and are elected on at every general election, if the Brits still use the Westminster model
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 13, 2018, 06:34:33 pm
They're elected them as MP, a legislative function. They receive no mandate for a executive position as minister they are appointed to, apart from the fake majority their party gets.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 13, 2018, 06:47:53 pm
They're elected them as MP, a legislative function. They receive no mandate for a executive position as minister they are appointed to, apart from the fake majority their party gets.
Except the sovereign has the power to appoint ministers under the system, not the party, that’s where the legitimacy of the ministers comes from. It’s the Queens mandate through the Cabinet
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 13, 2018, 06:53:30 pm
Silly argument Duuring, as Theodin pointed out they're elected MPs. They also sit as Ministers because they have the support of Parliament to do so. A number of EU Commissioners have never actually been elected to anything in their lives. Anyway answer the question-do you think the EU is democratic?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 13, 2018, 07:38:12 pm
UK’s system isn’t even power to the people, the whole point is the Queen has the power and the people chose the people who get the power. It’s the ideal system because you have a continuous legitimate power source and fairly decentralized structure.
What does the EU have like that 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 13, 2018, 08:02:01 pm
Technically speaking the Queen is the representative of the people's sovereignty (Goes all the way back to Magna Carta, but particularly with 1689 Claim of Right, etc) so it is in fact power to the people. She's a constitutional monarch and if she breaks that pact she automatically abdicates the crown.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 13, 2018, 08:10:13 pm
Technically speaking the Queen is the representative of the people's sovereignty (Goes all the way back to Magna Carta, but particularly with 1689 Claim of Right, etc) so it is in fact power to the people. She's a constitutional monarch and if she breaks that pact she automatically abdicates the crown.
That’s fair. The Canadian constitution was written with that whole “power to the people” in mind - trying to avoid that. Our founders worried about the reliability of a US type constitution so took power away from the people and placed it in the institution
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on January 14, 2018, 11:56:34 am
https://www.nederlandseleeuw.nl

See you there, Riddlez!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 14, 2018, 02:49:23 pm
https://www.nederlandseleeuw.nl

See you there, Riddlez!

Lol if that event is in English...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: joer5835 on January 14, 2018, 09:21:03 pm
Funny enough, they have a surprisingly varied mix of speakers from both the left and the right wing and pro- and anti- immigration.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on January 14, 2018, 10:02:16 pm
Funny enough, they have a surprisingly varied mix of speakers from both the left and the right wing and pro- and anti- immigration.

My word, it is almost like they represent all the different kinds of opinions there are on the European continent in regards to those topics....
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 14, 2018, 10:11:02 pm
Funny enough, they have a surprisingly varied mix of speakers from both the left and the right wing and pro- and anti- immigration.

You're kidding, right?

I went to a guest lecture by two of those people listed as speaker (Ybeltje 'Didn't do a thing as a MP but that's not my fault' Berckmoes and Sid 'EVERYTHING IS A MARXIST CONSPIRACY' Lukassen. It was one hour of very uncomfortable sitting in a room while they kept giving eachother compliments on how brilliant they were. And I'm not kidding, they really did use the word 'brilliant' to describe eachother. Multiple times. It was horrible.

My guess, it's gonna be one day full of right-wingers complaining how they can't speak their mind cos of the angry left-wing (Even though most of them, if not all, have made their carreers based on saying or writing down their views) and ending with 'immigration is bad mkay'. But we'll see, maybe I'm wrong. For all Dutch-speakers, I highly suggest checking out Chris Aalberts live-twitter account or his future article on the event on TPO. Aalberts is one of the best, if not the best political journalist of the Netherlands.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 14, 2018, 10:13:01 pm
Ah because we all know Duuring went into the event with a perfectly objective mindset. I’m sure what they said disappointed him, not just the fact that going in they didn’t agree with him. 😏
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 14, 2018, 10:21:04 pm
They didn't say anything. They gave eachother compliments. Berckmoes talked only bout how it was the fault of the party that she didn't do anything as a MP and Lukassen... Lukassen really didn't talk about anything but broad, weird statements about the order of society today. There was nothing to disagree or agree with. 90% of the people in the room were actually from their, right-wing party, by the way, and they all agreed. It wasn't just a bad lecture, it was weird as fuck.

But hey, I'm sure you know more about these two people you never heard before until I mentioned them. Who am I to pretend I know more about them? Stupid ol' me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 14, 2018, 11:09:32 pm
I used to attend communist meetings/lectures while doing my degree (mainly for the women and the occasional comedy), so I've had my fair share of 'broad, weird statements about the order of society'.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 14, 2018, 11:13:54 pm
That's what happens when people try to fit the real world to the ideology, rather then the ideology to the real world. This happens on both ends of the spectrum.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on January 15, 2018, 09:03:29 am
Isn't the point of an ideology that you shape the world conform the way you want it to be?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 15, 2018, 03:25:02 pm
Not really, no. Ideologies hail from (political) philosophy; they were written to explain why the world is as it is. Marx, as an example, didn't necessarily want a revolution and a socialist society, he thought it was absolutely sure to happen - eventually.

Ideologies however, never perfectly fit on the real world. Some fit better then others, but never perfect. So people who firmly believe their ideology is right, try to bring back society to what they think it's supposed to be. Because whatever they believe in, they all share the idea that the world is meant to be as their ideology prescribed. Any step away from that makes the world less perfect, because it's meddling with the natural order of things.

An easy (simplified) example of the above would be libertarians, who tend to believe that giving people 'free' money may seem to make them happy, but that they, and all of society, would actually be much happier and more succesful in a world reigned by the free market.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 15, 2018, 04:48:19 pm
I feel like you can be libertarian without being ideological - it’s all about the relationship between the world and your viewpoint, as you pointed out. Like, everyone has a political bias, but not everyone is ideological
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 15, 2018, 04:58:48 pm
In my opinion, it's hard to justify libertarian policy if you don't believe it, eventually, benefits the entirety of society. It's not exactly a moderate point of view.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 15, 2018, 05:05:02 pm
In my opinion, it's hard to justify libertarian policy if you don't believe it, eventually, benefits the entirety of society. It's not exactly a moderate point of view.
But there are many types of libertarianism that are moderate - just like there are elements of the left that are extreme and elements that are merely liberal. It’s all about individual policy, not the whole name itself
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 15, 2018, 05:09:56 pm
Fair point. Like I said, the example was simplified. Though in the Dutch context, liberatarianism itself is the extremist wing of the right-wing liberals, so I am yet to meet a non-ideological liberatarian. The North American context is different, of course.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 15, 2018, 05:56:40 pm
Fair point. Like I said, the example was simplified. Though in the Dutch context, liberatarianism itself is the extremist wing of the right-wing liberals, so I am yet to meet a non-ideological liberatarian. The North American context is different, of course.
Yes, indeed, geopolitics is often a factor underestimated
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Golden. on January 15, 2018, 06:13:08 pm
I used to attend communist meetings/lectures while doing my degree (mainly for the women and the occasional comedy), so I've had my fair share of 'broad, weird statements about the order of society'.

These are the best, but they never seem to escalate outside of university.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on January 15, 2018, 08:44:24 pm
I used to attend communist meetings/lectures while doing my degree (mainly for the women and the occasional comedy), so I've had my fair share of 'broad, weird statements about the order of society'.

These are the best, but they never seem to escalate outside of university.

Tell that to Hamburg's police...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 16, 2018, 07:21:38 pm
EU shifts from being a scorned wife to a clingy ex and back again on a daily basis lol

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTqBhqNW0AA9eOl.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 16, 2018, 07:42:41 pm
Only in your eyes does it do so.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 16, 2018, 09:03:56 pm
Only in your eyes does it do so.
And in your eyes it doesn’t, which, in case you were wondering, is what bias is
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 16, 2018, 10:18:48 pm
Why does Tusk's message conflict with what the EU's position has always been: Brexit is bad, it's Britain's choice which it can cancel at any time, and there can be no special status for the UK? This has been clear from the start, and has not changed. While the British haven't even decided if they want to leave the single market yet. Since the referendum, no less then 19 months have passed, and still the British haven't got a clue on what they actually want to achieve. It would be hilarious if it wasn't going to cost us so much money and jobs.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 16, 2018, 11:01:11 pm
Britain is leaving the SM, it officially became Govt policy in January 2017 months before Article 50 was triggered. Sure some people are going around trying to cause trouble by saying the UK should/could stay in but they don't speak for the government and never have done.

The EU wants no 'special status' in some things but not in others. For instance they're keen to give the UK a 'special status' when it comes to defence and intelligence sharing and want us to prop up an EU army despite not being members:
https://www.ft.com/content/311dfbc6-f7a4-11e7-88f7-5465a6ce1a00


Your problem Duuring is you always look at what the politicians are saying rather than what the civil servants are doing. For instance Barnier often talks bollocks about 'negotiations being suspended blah blah' yet thousands of people are still working behind the scenes in Brussels and Westminster, often in tandem. What Barnier means is he and David Davis won't appear for a photo op together to crack open a bottle of champagne that particular month. This is all just window dressing to entertain idiots; the actual work is very boring technical stuff which Davis and Barnier are too stupid to understand, let alone journalists.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 18, 2018, 09:44:09 am
(https://i.gyazo.com/6f824cff03fa508440ccea32ce9e97c6.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on January 18, 2018, 03:31:54 pm
https://gop.com/the-highly-anticipated-2017-fake-news-awards/

It sure was close this year!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 18, 2018, 04:31:31 pm
Theresa May is a master of whataboutism
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 18, 2018, 10:07:19 pm
https://gop.com/the-highly-anticipated-2017-fake-news-awards/

It sure was close this year!

Doesn't mention any Conservative media, hm not biased at all.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 18, 2018, 11:08:43 pm
https://gop.com/the-highly-anticipated-2017-fake-news-awards/

It sure was close this year!

Doesn't mention any Conservative media, hm not biased at all.
It’s the GOP website
It’s not meant to be unbiased

You tried
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 18, 2018, 11:12:43 pm
No shit, Sherlock.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on January 18, 2018, 11:22:16 pm
No shit, Sherlock.
Raising an issue just to brush it off under the 'obviously I knew that' sort of guise. EDGE INTENSIFIES
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on January 18, 2018, 11:25:32 pm
"90% of the news reported about Trump is negative"..... pretty much 90% of all news is negative  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 19, 2018, 12:04:22 am
No shit, Sherlock.
What’s no shit is that it wouldn’t mention pro-Trump media but you brought it up like it was news anyways  ::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 19, 2018, 03:27:21 am
No shit, Sherlock.
What’s no shit is that it wouldn’t mention pro-Trump media but you brought it up like it was news anyways  ::)
Meh just saying it's typical.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 19, 2018, 04:35:58 am
typical of a biased party to present what they view an issue as in their own terms. because they're a biased party. no left-wing news organization presents their views in objective centrist means because they're a biased party, like the GOP. That's how bias works
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on January 19, 2018, 12:40:59 pm
What about more objective news agencies? I know they're a novelty in the U.S. but really they're rather nice over here.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 19, 2018, 05:42:00 pm
What about more objective news agencies? I know they're a novelty in the U.S. but really they're rather nice over here.
We’ve got the National Post
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on January 19, 2018, 05:56:21 pm
At least your far-left news outlets aren't tax-payer funded. The two most prominent UK outlets that come to mind are that of the BBC and The Guardian (the latter of which is far worse than even America's CNN when it comes to "objective" reporting).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 19, 2018, 06:46:38 pm
Can you back up the claimed existance of that bias by actual scientific, methodological sound, research? And not by 'Should be clear to anyone!11' or 'just read this article I don't like'. I know of only one study, in Belgium, that showed no left-wing bias and a very slight anti-sitting government bias.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 19, 2018, 07:53:19 pm
you could use this
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 19, 2018, 09:09:43 pm
Not a bad site, but you cannot use it scientifically.
 
Quote
When calculating bias we are not just looking at political bias, but also how factual the information is and if they provide links to credible, verifiable sources. Therefore, the yellow dot may indicate political bias or how factual a source is, or in many cases, both.

This discredits basically the entire thing. You're measuring two entirely different things. It would be like stating a certain number could mean age, penis lenght or both. You have no idea whether someone is just really old or hung like a horse, or both.

Quote
Further, we have placed a voting poll on each page for readers to vote on the bias of the source. This is similar to how a movie sites such as IMDB or Rotten Tomatoes rate their movies.

But is horrible as a format to check for a factual bias. The risk of people giving a site a bad rating because they simply don't like it is present and therefor makes the rating not trustworthy.

They also do not explain what they consider 'liberal' or 'right-wing'. Is is what the checker considers left-wing? But are there different checkers with different opinions on what constitutes left or right-wing? Are there certain 'buzz words' they have categorized? What are these? Do they just tick a box when there's a word, or does it matter how often it returns? For one category, they even admit that it's not trustworthy and do not explain how pages get this rating.

Quote
Political Affiliation: How strongly does the source endorse a particular political ideology? In other words how extreme are their views. (This can be rather subjective)

Lastly, they do not actually state a sample-size nor check for significance, so their conclusion is, again, scientifically not usable.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 19, 2018, 09:49:10 pm
I mean, that’s fair. Not a study. I noticed they cited studies below- didn’t read them at all but I wonder how thorough those are.
Reading the Canadian biases it seems accurate. Same with a couple of Australian ones. Don’t know about any other ones, though.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 19, 2018, 11:47:12 pm
The site could be accurate. But there is absolutely no reason to assume it actually is.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 20, 2018, 12:41:21 am
The site could be accurate. But there is absolutely no reason to assume it actually is.
oh quite, but we shouldn't also assume that it isn't, either. merely use it as an interesting tool
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 20, 2018, 01:08:36 am
I suppose thinking an outlet is biased, could in fact be a bias. If you get my drift.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 20, 2018, 11:03:40 am
The site could be accurate. But there is absolutely no reason to assume it actually is.
oh quite, but we shouldn't also assume that it isn't, either. merely use it as an interesting tool

Scientifically, no. You cannot use it, and using it would discredit any conclusions you might reach.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 20, 2018, 04:40:39 pm
The site could be accurate. But there is absolutely no reason to assume it actually is.
oh quite, but we shouldn't also assume that it isn't, either. merely use it as an interesting tool

Scientifically, no. You cannot use it, and using it would discredit any conclusions you might reach.
Glad we’re not doing science here then eh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 20, 2018, 04:52:47 pm
So you cannot, in fact, show me scientific evidence that (certain) media is biased?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 20, 2018, 05:12:07 pm
There are multiple scientific studies reasearching media bias. So I can, yes. But I find it suspect to hold out for objective scientific methodology here when the media outlets tell you by themselves - look at endorsements of political candidates and you will find the political biases of the media outlets. Also, in that same vein, it is not realistic to say that Fox is an unbiased source, but if we hold out for objective methodology I guess it is
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 20, 2018, 05:14:15 pm
So you cannot, in fact, show me scientific evidence that (certain) media is biased?

Most if not all newspapers in Sweden have openly declared what their political leanings are (it might be a law not sure).
They're all usually pretty good at objective reporting outside of the 2nd page where they usually discuss politics.
Not sure how it is in other countries though.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 20, 2018, 05:16:00 pm
Hmm, had a look at that media check website, imo for an American organisation it's surprisingly accurate on UK media in 95% of cases. However when it gets it wrong, it gets it seriously way off. E.g. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-canary-uk/

The Canary apparently has 'High' factual reporting. Lol-they're constantly pushing fake shit/conspiracy theories/sensationalist rubbish and having to apologise for it. I'd say it's probably not quite as bad as InfoWars but is easily worse than Breitbart.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 20, 2018, 05:40:09 pm
So you cannot, in fact, show me scientific evidence that (certain) media is biased?

Most if not all newspapers in Sweden have openly declared what their political leanings are (it might be a law not sure).
They're all usually pretty good at objective reporting outside of the 2nd page where they usually discuss politics.
Not sure how it is in other countries though.
All the Canadian media endorsements reflected the leanings of the org - which was also accurately reflected by the media website
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on January 20, 2018, 06:04:09 pm
Can you back up the claimed existance of that bias by actual scientific, methodological sound, research? And not by 'Should be clear to anyone!11' or 'just read this article I don't like'. I know of only one study, in Belgium, that showed no left-wing bias and a very slight anti-sitting government bias.

I don't need one for The Guardian - they're quite open about their bias https://www.theguardian.com/gnm-archive/2002/jun/06/1 and considered themselves the "voice of the left" for several decades.

As for the BBC, the outlet has faced almost non-stop controversy over its biased reporting, to the point where they even caught the attention of government regulators ~ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/22/stop-bias-against-brexit-face-fine-bbc-warned/

Not that I need even post any of those links. All the empirical required to infer bias could be collected by oneself, given that we define media bias as "the bias or perceived bias of journalists and news producers within the mass media in the selection of events and stories that are reported and how they are covered." The disproportionate coverage of topics and events conferring a postmodernist or progressive message against those of a conservative nature, proven by the quantitative amount of articles produced by each platform's outlet, would be sufficient to infer bias within itself. Not to professional standard admittedly, but to a sufficient degree for a dying internet forum. I'd conduct it myself but it's not my definition of a good Saturday evening.

Would you rather I post an amateur study group for you to compare their methodology against this week's PoliSci lecture notes?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 20, 2018, 06:31:54 pm
There are multiple scientific studies reasearching media bias. So I can, yes. But I find it suspect to hold out for objective scientific methodology here when the media outlets tell you by themselves - look at endorsements of political candidates and you will find the political biases of the media outlets. Also, in that same vein, it is not realistic to say that Fox is an unbiased source, but if we hold out for objective methodology I guess it is

Endorsing political candidates or issues does not mean the articles they write have a bias. They could, but A does not automatically mean B.

Quote
Also, in that same vein, it is not realistic to say that Fox is an unbiased source, but if we hold out for objective methodology I guess it is

The correct conclusion is 'we don't know'.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 20, 2018, 08:39:12 pm
The thing is that we operate under the guise that it’s solely the media’s responsibility to give an impartial perspective. Any well informed person knows to take news with a grain of salt since politics is the most opinionated topic in the world and the person writing the article is no different to our discussions on here.

My take on it is that media has always been and will always be a bias, if you try and control that then you’re restricting free speech which goes against the very nature of what we all stand for. An intelligent person should not blindly take their opinions for what they read but use that and similar articles which take different perspectives to formulate their own opinion on a topic.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 21, 2018, 04:17:08 pm
Macron admits the French would probably have voted to leave the EU as well had they been given a vote...
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/955019112031244288

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 21, 2018, 04:59:32 pm
No he's not. Listen to what he says 'In a similair [British] context, but our context was very different'. They voted overwelmingly for a pro-EU president when they could have elected one running on an anti-EU platform, so suggestions like this are pretty meaningless.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 21, 2018, 06:54:03 pm
By context I'm assuming he meant the French Presidential election rather than a referendum. The last referendum on the EU in France was of course won by the eurosceptics...

Britain voted to leave the EU yet UKIP only ever got two MPs, both of which were defections from the Conservatives. They peaked at slightly under 13% of the vote. Just because Le Pen lost doesn't mean a more moderate, Eurosceptic figure couldn't win the presidency.

Tbh everyone's waiting for the Italian election results which will probably return the most eurosceptic government in Italian history, ever.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 21, 2018, 07:41:58 pm
The last referendum was over a decade ago.

So UKIP just triggered another leadership election. I wonder why they don't just abolish the party by now.

Quote
Tbh everyone's waiting for the Italian election results which will probably return the most eurosceptic government in Italian history, ever.

And even they ruled out a referendum on the Euro.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 21, 2018, 07:46:17 pm
UKIP without Farage isn’t worth keeping around. It’s only function was to be purely euroskeptic in the EU parliament, but that’s not needed anymore is it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 21, 2018, 07:58:16 pm
Daily Mail claims Farage is gonna form a UKIP 2.0. But without a European Parliament to win seats in... Seems like a pointless exercise.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 21, 2018, 08:44:24 pm
Quote
Tbh everyone's waiting for the Italian election results which will probably return the most eurosceptic government in Italian history, ever.

And even they ruled out a referendum on the Euro.

M5S haven't, it's still party policy and the leader said he'd vote to leave. Lega Nord are likewise still anti-Euro. Granted though it's a very close election so hardly any of them are being clear about it-Berlusconi bashes the Euro but says Italy should ultimately stay in, M5S want to 're-negotiate' the terms and hold a referendum should that fail, while LN and Brothers of Italy haven't put it at the front of the campaign. Makes more sense to bash the EU over migration and Macron/Merkel liberal agenda.

It's increasingly obvious Europe is splitting into two cultural camps, Merkel-led liberals vs Eastern/Central European conservatives. Italy's about to jump ship from the former to the latter. She'll no longer be the de facto leader of the EU once the next Italian government is in place.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 21, 2018, 09:35:59 pm
Quote
It's increasingly obvious Europe is splitting into two cultural camps, Merkel-led liberals vs Eastern/Central European conservatives

This has been the case since eastern expansion and before that with the UK, the Netherlands and in a lesser degree the Swedes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 21, 2018, 09:57:23 pm
It really hasn't, at least not to such an obvious and extreme extent as is happening currently.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 21, 2018, 10:00:37 pm
Can someone explain German politics to me because you say Merkel is more of a liberal? Do you mean solely in regards to the EU or in her general domestic policy because I thought her party were centre right?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: joer5835 on January 21, 2018, 10:05:56 pm
Merkel's CDU is a Christian-Conservative centre-right party that does also pursue a market Liberal economic policy, which I believe is what is being refered to here.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 21, 2018, 10:10:41 pm
Merkel's CDU is a Christian-Conservative centre-right party that does also pursue a market Liberal economic policy, which I believe is what is being refered to here.
Ah I see, thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on January 21, 2018, 10:54:04 pm
Isn't it nice to have a government that doesn't shut down?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 21, 2018, 10:56:17 pm
^ too real
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 21, 2018, 11:16:10 pm
Does anybody else wish we could go back to the days of Cameron and Miliband just pure ragging each other in the commons? Simpler times.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 21, 2018, 11:38:12 pm
Merkel's CDU is a Christian-Conservative centre-right party that does also pursue a market Liberal economic policy, which I believe is what is being refered to here.
Ah I see, thanks for clarifying.

Partly that, but it's also about plenty of other things. Merkel dislikes the idea of the nation state and its symbols, is not much of a cultural Christian, is very pro-mass migration, and is not a great believer in national sovereignty. That's totally at odds with much of Eastern and Central Europe, and is a very big problem given she's trying to impose her beliefs on the rest of the EU.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 21, 2018, 11:42:11 pm
Merkel's CDU is a Christian-Conservative centre-right party that does also pursue a market Liberal economic policy, which I believe is what is being refered to here.
Ah I see, thanks for clarifying.

Partly that, but it's also about plenty of other things. Merkel dislikes the idea of the nation state and its symbols, is not much of a cultural Christian, is very pro-mass migration, and is not a great believer in national sovereignty. That's totally at odds with much of Eastern and Central Europe, and is a very big problem given she's trying to impose her beliefs on the rest of the EU.
Is she on more of the centralist part of her party then in terms of social beliefs?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 22, 2018, 01:38:45 am
Difficult to say as she contradicts herself constantly. I recall she made a major speech bashing multiculturalism a few years back saying it had totally failed, yet in 2014 pushed through a migration policy that saw over a million people enter Germany in the space of 12 months. She claims Islam is a 'part of Germany' yet also used to call for burqas to be banned claiming they 'weren't acceptable in our country'. She's also allegedly anti-gay marriage, though that might just be a stance she took to shore up her base at a time when some in her party were trying to oust her.

Personally I think she doesn't really believe in much but will say whatever is politically pragmatic at the time. I mean, she's very comfortable working in coalition with everyone from the FDP to the SPD to the German Greens. Her main political philosophy is that Angela Merkel should be Chancellor of Germany, and everything else comes second to that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 22, 2018, 02:33:39 am
Ah I know her type. Do and say whatever as long as it ends with the retention of power.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 22, 2018, 03:46:44 pm
Just saw black mirror's "Waldo" episode made me think a whole lot about Trump.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 22, 2018, 04:10:35 pm
Just saw black mirror's "Waldo" episode made me think a whole lot about Trump.
Never seen it, in what way does it remind you of him?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 22, 2018, 04:34:10 pm
Satire candidate that just take the piss on it's opponents and the system.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on January 22, 2018, 08:59:46 pm
Satire candidate that just take the piss on it's opponents and the system.

You're thinking of bernie
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Windflower on January 22, 2018, 09:06:16 pm
Just saw black mirror's "Waldo" episode made me think a whole lot about Trump.
Great episode!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 22, 2018, 09:41:58 pm
Satire candidate that just take the piss on it's opponents and the system.

You're thinking of bernie

That's where you're wrong kiddo.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 22, 2018, 10:16:25 pm
But he’s not tho
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 23, 2018, 12:44:52 am
This is a really insightful discussion
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 23, 2018, 05:27:44 pm
So Trump has placed tariffs on solar panels or whatever being imported into the US. Can somebody explain to me the advantages and disadvantages of Globalization and Protectionism?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 23, 2018, 05:41:32 pm
hold on lemme get an Econ degree first and then come back
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: joer5835 on January 23, 2018, 05:47:40 pm
From what I read, most Solar Panel companies in the US are against because other countries research levels and their capability to create a steady supply of Solar Panels is much further advanced than the US'. That would mean that US based companies might potentially not live up to the demand and/or makes importing parts or complete panels abroad rather costly and so makes buying Solar Panels more expensive for the average citizen as well because of this.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 23, 2018, 06:28:01 pm
It’s not really in the free market spirit to impose tariffs - just end the subsidies and the things would die off
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 23, 2018, 06:50:05 pm
Meaning you'll be running far behind by the time fossil fuel runs out.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 23, 2018, 07:39:23 pm
Because the Americans, like 99% of other countries, are only in favour of free trade in areas where they have the economic advantage. Protectionism is sometimes necessary hence why the UK is currently piling on environmental and agricultural legislation post-Brexit; nobody wants to become a dumping ground for heavily subsidised US agriculture exports (which is the real reason why the EU bans chlorinated chicken and so on, citing 'safety issues' is just a convenient excuse).

Tariffs are old news anyway, it's far easier to simply regulate foreign competition out of your domestic market these days. The EU is quite good at doing that and then exporting said regulation overseas-essentially countries have a choice to conform to either US or EU standards/regulations. They're the two biggest economies on Earth and have competing regulatory systems (e.g. if you've ever bought American chocolate in an EU supermarket you'll notice they have those weird sticky labels on the back to meet EU standards). That's the real damage that Brexit will do to the EU-if its economy shrinks by c16% then aligning to US regulations becomes more attractive as it has a far bigger market share.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 23, 2018, 10:42:10 pm
Meaning you'll be running far behind by the time fossil fuel runs out.
“Muh peak oil” chill. Fossil fuels are not running out anytime soon
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 23, 2018, 10:51:45 pm
But they will.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 23, 2018, 10:56:34 pm
Fossil fuel is great.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/bp-oil-spill-disaster-by-numbers-2078396.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 24, 2018, 12:12:20 am
But they will.
Not in both of our lifetimes

Fossil fuel is great.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/bp-oil-spill-disaster-by-numbers-2078396.html

Uh oh, an oil spill, that’s not a good thing
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 24, 2018, 12:33:26 am
Neither is global warming.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 24, 2018, 12:39:37 am
Neither is global warming.
Tell that to the cavemen! Or the people who lived in medieval times during that warming period. They'd agree tbh, altho the ice age humans wouldn't agree
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 24, 2018, 01:18:07 am
Theodin the whole not in our lifetimes argument is stupid. If everyone thought like that we’d be fucked. Better to deal with an issue before it becomes an issue.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 24, 2018, 02:01:57 am
Theodin the whole not in our lifetimes argument is stupid. If everyone thought like that we’d be fucked. Better to deal with an issue before it becomes an issue.
That’s an excellent pint, but why trade economic and energy prosperity for something that may be a problem or not. Actually, you didn’t make a good point. Why’s it fucked?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 24, 2018, 03:12:15 am
If you care for more than yourself it's a problem, like if you ever get children or if you care about humanity surviving.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 24, 2018, 03:38:01 am
Nice false moral equivalency. Offer a real argument or policy suggestion rather than making baseless judgments about my moral values.
That’s very intellectually dishonest of you
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 24, 2018, 03:56:03 am
There have already been research posted before that you've rejected so I don't see the point.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 24, 2018, 04:41:04 am
There have already been research posted before that you've rejected so I don't see the point.
So, instead of a) telling me when and where I have you make a fallicious statement and b) justify your fallacy with a fallacy.
Idk if it’s because your first language isn’t English or you’re just incredibly poor at discussion but you’re really not doing well here
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 24, 2018, 05:43:43 am
There is already evidence of the world changing around us as a result of pollution. You can even see in places like China some people are even wearing masks to avoid breathing the air. Sure you can be a bit richer in the short term but the long term effects could be frightening for humanity. It’s not just about our generation, but those to come.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on January 24, 2018, 06:06:43 am
Then China should do something about it. The EPA’s yearly reports show that US air quality is better than its ever been - only in like three cities in the Midwest is pollution a problem.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 24, 2018, 06:43:05 am
Then China should do something about it. The EPA’s yearly reports show that US air quality is better than its ever been - only in like three cities in the Midwest is pollution a problem.
And burning more fossil fuels is going to make that rise. Eventually if pollution levels aren’t dealt with they will begin to affect our lives negatively. That’s why it’s better to prevent that from happening before it’s too late to deal with it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on January 24, 2018, 01:09:35 pm
There have already been research posted before that you've rejected so I don't see the point.
So, instead of a) telling me when and where I have you make a fallicious statement and b) justify your fallacy with a fallacy.
Idk if it’s because your first language isn’t English or you’re just incredibly poor at discussion but you’re really not doing well here

Fine I'll bite. As far as I can tell you deny that human influence haven't had a significant impact on the enviroment or at least global warming correct?
Yet in 2013 the IPCC said this ""It is extremely likely that human influence has been the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century."

Spoiler
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Climate_science_opinion_graph_3Path.svg/512px-Climate_science_opinion_graph_3Path.svg.png)
[close]

The overwhelming majority of scientist agree so I don't see how you can be so skeptic.

Then China should do something about it. The EPA’s yearly reports show that US air quality is better than its ever been - only in like three cities in the Midwest is pollution a problem.

Can't say that I trust the EPA under Scott Pruitt.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on January 24, 2018, 04:09:29 pm
There have already been research posted before that you've rejected so I don't see the point.
So, instead of a) telling me when and where I have you make a fallicious statement and b) justify your fallacy with a fallacy.
Idk if it’s because your first language isn’t English or you’re just incredibly poor at discussion but you’re really not doing well here

Says the one who never shies away from using plenty of ad-hominems... I mean it don't feel like contributing to the discussion but your statements are generally just pure comedy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 24, 2018, 04:17:24 pm
Theodin is Canadian, it's biologically impossible for him to be rude.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 24, 2018, 04:34:18 pm
Theodin is Canadian, it's biologically impossible for him to be rude.

I giggled.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on January 24, 2018, 08:55:03 pm
Theodin is Canadian, it's biologically impossible for him to be rude.
Canadians in this community are however a special breed
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 26, 2018, 08:41:13 pm
Trump willing to apologise for his retweet of the Britain first video. I'm surprised.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on January 26, 2018, 08:43:08 pm
Interesting discussion in my world politics class on how despite Europe's constant push for globalization, it itself is plagued by neo-fascist movements when outsiders try to come in. Pretty ironic really
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 26, 2018, 09:40:27 pm
'Europe's constant push for globalization' 'plagued by neo-fascists movements' oh man you're killing me here.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on January 26, 2018, 09:46:16 pm
'Europe's constant push for globalization' 'plagued by neo-fascists movements' oh man you're killing me here.
You're moderating kills me and the whole forum but there's nothing we can do.

Next point please.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 26, 2018, 09:49:16 pm
Start a neo-fascist renewal movement for FSE?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 26, 2018, 09:57:56 pm
Not sure what's wrong with William's comment, albeit the term 'neo-fascist' is too strong a word when looking at M5S/AfD/UKIP/PiS/etc. It's eurosceptic populism rather than neo-fascism that's the EU's biggest problem.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 26, 2018, 10:10:28 pm
With two of the three eurosceptic factions in the EP about to go tits up, the third one losing half its membership and eurosceptic parties losing their hard edge left right and centre, I wouldn't exactly call it a problem.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on January 26, 2018, 10:15:35 pm
Not sure what's wrong with William's comment, albeit the term 'neo-fascist' is too strong a word when looking at M5S/AfD/UKIP/PiS/etc. It's eurosceptic populism rather than neo-fascism that's the EU's biggest problem.
Yeah, that's what we pointed out in class but it was the author's terms. We just agreed that right-wing populism and that it seems to be a recurring trend in Western countries, despite how open Western countries try to be. It was mostly just a political discussion on whether state sovereignty would survive globalization but we got into a lot of bigger discussion on immigration and the role of NGO's and MNC's in international politics.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 26, 2018, 10:28:28 pm
1.Status quo
2.Status quo is challenged
3. Some people don't like it because they perceive the status quo as beneficial and oppose challenge.

Yeah, really sounds like something unique to the EU of the last decade.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 26, 2018, 11:26:28 pm
1.Status quo
2.Status quo is challenged
3. Some people don't like it because they perceive the status quo as beneficial and oppose challenge.

Yeah, really sounds like something unique to the EU of the last decade.

Except he never claimed it was unique, because it isn't, merely that it was happening.

Not sure what's wrong with William's comment, albeit the term 'neo-fascist' is too strong a word when looking at M5S/AfD/UKIP/PiS/etc. It's eurosceptic populism rather than neo-fascism that's the EU's biggest problem.
Yeah, that's what we pointed out in class but it was the author's terms. We just agreed that right-wing populism and that it seems to be a recurring trend in Western countries, despite how open Western countries try to be. It was mostly just a political discussion on whether state sovereignty would survive globalization but we got into a lot of bigger discussion on immigration and the role of NGO's and MNC's in international politics.

Your class must have a really left-wing bias lol-European populism isn't just on the right (see Syriza, Podemos, Jeremy Corbyn, M5S to an extent, etc).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 27, 2018, 12:01:39 am
Populism is just appealing to the people, it’s a pretty non partisan concept since it can happen on either side of the spectrum
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on January 27, 2018, 12:06:24 am
Some political scientists don't even consider populism an ideology like the left-right divide, but a style or strategy. I don't necessarily agree with that, but yes, there's left-wing populism, but no, it's not a copy-paste of right-wing populism with leftist ideas. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 27, 2018, 12:52:15 am
Some political scientists don't even consider populism an ideology like the left-right divide, but a style or strategy. I don't necessarily agree with that, but yes, there's left-wing populism, but no, it's not a copy-paste of right-wing populism with leftist ideas.
I would agree that it is more of a way of doing things rather than an ideology
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 27, 2018, 12:53:05 am
Some political scientists don't even consider populism an ideology like the left-right divide, but a style or strategy. I don't necessarily agree with that, but yes, there's left-wing populism, but no, it's not a copy-paste of right-wing populism with leftist ideas.

There's a *lot* of cross-over as they all like to cast themselves as anti-establishment which takes on familiar forms. Corbyn basically adopted Trump's tactics in terms of bashing the media and the elites and blaming all ills on certain targets (Mexicans, the rich, Blairites, Hillary, etc). His team even bragged about doing so: https://www.politico.eu/article/revealed-jeremy-corbyn-labour-plan-to-copy-donald-trump-playbook/

Corbyn's team bash the BBC even more than Trump bashes CNN...You also get a big whiff of antisemitism with Corbyn's Labour, same with a lot of the alt-right. The guy is constantly Jew baiting:
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/social-media-storm-breaks-over-corbyn-s-jew-free-holocaust-memorial-day-statement-1.457496
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 27, 2018, 12:56:44 am
Steven it's actually funny if you think anything about Corbyn's memorial statement in anti-Semitic. Just because he didn't literally use the word Jew that doesn't mean he hates them. He said 'We should never forget the holocaust: the millions who died, the millions displaced and cruel hurt that their descendants have suffered'. That is quite clearly referring to Jews.

I'll be the first to admit that hearing the news of the cancellation of the investigation into anti-Semitism in the party troubles me, but at least give some credible evidence rather than trying to bullshit us.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on January 27, 2018, 02:52:58 am
The Holocaust has a broad definition-it's not just Jews who were killed but also the disabled, gypsies, Poles, etc. He knows what he's doing. In and of itself I'll admit it's hardly anything and ordinarily I'd say it was a minor PR blunder, but it fits a pattern of behaviour of which this is the latest example. You can't hang out with jew-hating organisations, share platforms with antisemites and whitewash investigations in antisemitism and still expect to be given the benefit of the doubt. I mean come on, his record is awful...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on January 27, 2018, 03:05:01 am
Yes it does refer to more than just the Jews, but the key is that it includes Jews. As I said, I also worry about the state of the Labour party but this whole affair about the memorial statement is a desperate attempt at news.

If I was leader of the Labour party though, I would want that investigation to be continued. It does worry me and, at times, makes me consider the fact that I'm a member of the party. It would be nice for Jeremy Corbyn to just come out and denounce anti Jewish groups and reiterate and clarify his statement.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on January 27, 2018, 03:37:19 pm
Jeremy Corbyn, provocateur and member of the alt-right.  8)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on January 29, 2018, 08:11:10 am
And remember we used to think Milliband was a joke
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 04, 2018, 10:47:52 am
Labour is now letting back Holocaust deniers (and god know's what else) into the party after Momentum won all those seats on the NEC...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/734eae6c-091c-11e8-8182-8ccf9f50529e

Corbyn is really burnishing his alt-right credentials. I know this started off as a joke but I can now kinda foresee a lot of alt-right people voting for Corbyn over May because of this.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 04, 2018, 11:05:28 am
Can you link an article that isn’t a subscription?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 04, 2018, 11:34:52 am
Can you link an article that isn’t a subscription?

Good quality journalism costs money guys  ::)

Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVLiIHpX4AA65vp.jpg:large)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVGIgvaW0AATdsv.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 04, 2018, 04:14:53 pm
This is genuinely worrying
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on February 04, 2018, 06:39:43 pm
I doubt Corbyn will feel any consequences in the polls, considering his voting demographic.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 04, 2018, 06:56:56 pm
Anyone got a prediction for when May will be forced out? Looking very perilous for her again. I dunno, there's been several points where she was inches away from a leadership challenge but managed to save herself at the last minute. Not sure she can pull that off this time. My prediction: she'll be gone by June and probably even sooner. At the moment she's only being saved by the local elections in May (results are predicted to be extremely bad for the Tories and I'm guessing none of her rivals want the blame, so they're keeping her on as a kind of punch bag).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 04, 2018, 08:09:20 pm
I hate it when local elections are used as some sort of a referendum on the national government. You see the same thing here (we have local elections in March).

Who's the most likely successor to May?

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 04, 2018, 09:21:16 pm
I doubt Corbyn will feel any consequences in the polls, considering his voting demographic.
What do you mean?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 04, 2018, 11:33:41 pm
Who's the most likely successor to May?

From the Conservatives? Probably Rees-Mogg.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 05, 2018, 12:09:07 am
Who's the most likely successor to May?

From the Conservatives? Probably Rees-Mogg.
Nah they won't choose him because they know he'll never be elected. He's not well liked.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 05, 2018, 01:13:53 am
Who's the most likely successor to May?

From the Conservatives? Probably Rees-Mogg.
Nah they won't choose him because they know he'll never be elected. He's not well liked.

Who do you think then? He seems to be a favourite among tories.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 05, 2018, 01:17:00 am
Who's the most likely successor to May?

From the Conservatives? Probably Rees-Mogg.
Nah they won't choose him because they know he'll never be elected. He's not well liked.

Who do you think then? He seems to be a favourite among tories.
It's hard to say because none of them seem great but I have a hunch Johnson will make a move for it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 05, 2018, 11:08:01 am
Jacob Rees-Mogg is a meme, not a potential prime minister.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 05, 2018, 11:40:28 am
I'm hoping it'll be Gove. He's actually pretty competent but unfortunately also a bit unpopular given he was Education Secretary and shook things up. But most likely? Probably Johnson though he's not as popular among Tory grassroots as people think and has too many enemies. Also he's the current front runner, and the rule about Tory leadership contests is that the front runner almost never wins!

I hate it when local elections are used as some sort of a referendum on the national government. You see the same thing here (we have local elections in March).

Yeah that sucks but unfortunately that'll happen and Momentum will get a load of antisemites/communists/loons elected as a result.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Samu on February 06, 2018, 12:32:22 pm
As a conservative myself I am hoping for a competent leader, I don't really think Johnson offers that. Gove is probably my favourite but I dislike him as person. Rees Mogg could be an interesting surprise but I don't see him as leader, he is my personal favourite but I don't think he's leadership material.

I am more worried about the growing support that Labour is gaining and at this rate they will win the next general election. I would rather have May over Corbyn, even though I don't particulary like May.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 06, 2018, 01:16:27 pm
People don’t want a conservative government anymore. They fucked things even worse than Labour.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on February 07, 2018, 06:37:48 pm
We're talking about a parliament which had an "emergency debate" over Trump's retweets on social media last year. Competence and rational thinking went out the window a long time ago.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 07, 2018, 07:48:52 pm
I am more worried about the growing support that Labour is gaining and at this rate they will win the next general election. I would rather have May over Corbyn, even though I don't particulary like May.

Labour, despite everything that's happened, are still only level with the Tories in the polls. They should be asking themselves why but instead they're taking an extended victory lap. At this rate they will not win in 2022. The vast majority of people despise both May and Corbyn. Momentum is not popular. If the Tories get a better leader I think the polls will change rapidly.

People don’t want a conservative government anymore. They fucked things even worse than Labour.

We've not had a conservative government for decades...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 07, 2018, 08:37:24 pm
I was talking about the party Steven, don’t try and be a smart arse
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on February 07, 2018, 09:56:22 pm
Stephen just got shut down
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 07, 2018, 10:39:32 pm
I was talking about the party Steven, don’t try and be a smart arse

Being a smart arse is like 80% of my posts tbh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on February 08, 2018, 05:43:02 pm
Let's not forget that Mao "did more good than harm", according to Labour.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 08, 2018, 05:45:23 pm
Lovely old-timers.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 08, 2018, 06:22:39 pm
Brexit growth forecasts looking bad
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 08, 2018, 06:35:02 pm
Ironic.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on February 08, 2018, 06:48:17 pm
Brexit uncertainty and reality seem to have a bad relationship, further demonstrated by the BoE's forcasts earlier today.

Also: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/billionaire-george-soros-backs-campaign-to-reverse-brexit/ar-BBIPGzP

Where's Fraudbear when you need him? :(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 08, 2018, 08:05:54 pm
Brexit growth forecasts looking bad

Would that be the 15-year forecasts which are never, ever correct? By the same people (HM Treasury) who got the impact of a 'Leave' vote horrendously wrong? If they can't predict 12 months ahead they're gonna be hopeless at trying to guess a timeline of 15 *years*.

Having said that Brexit was never going to be a good thing in the short-term so I'm surprised at how well the economy has held up since June 2016. Growth will probably be subdued until around 2021 but the sky isn't going to fall in.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 08, 2018, 08:10:07 pm
Quote
Having said that Brexit was never going to be a good thing in the short-term

Can't wait to hear this for the following 10 years and again during the rejoin referendum-campaign.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 08, 2018, 08:30:51 pm
I highly doubt Britain will be re-joining. The EU is headed for a bad place for a multitude of reasons (awful demographics, massive economic divergence between North and South, deep cultural splits between East and West, inability to reform in a logical way...) and will be a basket-case within a decade. I think the UK got out at a good time, will probably botch the Brexit process to an extent, but it won't be a disaster and the situation is recoverable.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 08, 2018, 08:42:52 pm
By that defintion, my country should also have dissolved two centuries ago. We're still here.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 08, 2018, 08:59:49 pm
In what way is there a 'deep cultural split' or 'massive economic divergence' in the Netherlands? Has there ever been?

And if there was then no, you wouldn't have dissolved two centuries ago because this only applies in the democratic era. Non-homogeneous unions are possible if you keep people in line with bullets (e.g. Austria-Hungary, USSR, etc).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on February 08, 2018, 11:08:11 pm
The current state of Great Britain is the breeding ground for a hard line conservative party to gain power and to then use mass hysteria to create an authoritarian government that will simply have nothing to oversee it, with the only they could truly be undone is through some sort of revolution, perhaps with the destruction of the Palace of Westminster on the 5th of November, symbolizing the end of the old, and the beginning of the new.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 08, 2018, 11:34:42 pm
In what way is there a 'deep cultural split' or 'massive economic divergence' in the Netherlands? Has there ever been?

And if there was then no, you wouldn't have dissolved two centuries ago because this only applies in the democratic era. Non-homogeneous unions are possible if you keep people in line with bullets (e.g. Austria-Hungary, USSR, etc).

The Catholic-Protestant split as well as the difference of wealth between the west and east that's still very much felt today.

The current state of Great Britain is the breeding ground for a hard line conservative party to gain power and to then use mass hysteria to create an authoritarian government that will simply have nothing to oversee it, with the only they could truly be undone is through some sort of revolution, perhaps with the destruction of the Palace of Westminster on the 5th of November, symbolizing the end of the old, and the beginning of the new.

+1
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on February 08, 2018, 11:49:01 pm
The current state of Great Britain is the breeding ground for a hard line conservative party to gain power and to then use mass hysteria to create an authoritarian government that will simply have nothing to overse
Despite the current centre-conservative party being increasingly unpoluar and the only notable right-wing party getting 1.8% of the electorate in contrast to 12.8% two years prior. The BNP garnered about 3000 more votes nationwide than two year prior.

I personally think Sinn Féin will assassinate the Queen and force a personal union with Ireland. Gerry Adams is named "Lord Protector" of the United Kingdom and uses the military to restore order.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 09, 2018, 12:05:37 am
In what way is there a 'deep cultural split' or 'massive economic divergence' in the Netherlands? Has there ever been?

And if there was then no, you wouldn't have dissolved two centuries ago because this only applies in the democratic era. Non-homogeneous unions are possible if you keep people in line with bullets (e.g. Austria-Hungary, USSR, etc).

The Catholic-Protestant split as well as the difference of wealth between the west and east that's still very much felt today.


The Catholic-Protestant split? Duuring are you serious...

Based on GDP per capita, the wealth difference between the poorest and richest Dutch province is tiny compared to Germany vs Greece/Romania/Portugal.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 09, 2018, 12:35:08 am
I'm not talking of the situation today, obviously. I'm talking in historic perspective. The catholic/protestant split is nowhere as strong as it used to be, but strong it was, until even after world war two. For more then a century, there were pretty much parallel societies that lived next to, not with, eachother. The split certainly was a lot stronger felt then cultural differences with a country a thousand kilometres away.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on February 09, 2018, 07:27:49 pm
Looking back, I wonder how well or bad the world would be if colonialism still prevailed. I feel like the world would be much more stable in the fact that many of these new states would not be having constant ethnic wars but at the same time colonialism stripes native people of pretty much everything but at the same time gives a common language and religion to unite people. However, neocolonialism and the inability to enforce peace among areas, leaving room for genocide, is far worse in my opinion which is why I bring this up.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on February 09, 2018, 07:46:47 pm
Colonialism always leads to internal rebellion and warfare. It’s unsustainable. Independent self rule is the best way for nation-states
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 09, 2018, 08:43:13 pm
Looking back, I wonder how well or bad the world would be if colonialism still prevailed. I feel like the world would be much more stable in the fact that many of these new states would not be having constant ethnic wars but at the same time colonialism stripes native people of pretty much everything but at the same time gives a common language and religion to unite people. However, neocolonialism and the inability to enforce peace among areas, leaving room for genocide, is far worse in my opinion which is why I bring this up.

Ironically that's the view that Soviet authorities espoused re: Central Asia and their presence there. The USSR was anti-colonialist only when it suited it!

I'm not talking of the situation today, obviously. I'm talking in historic perspective. The catholic/protestant split is nowhere as strong as it used to be, but strong it was, until even after world war two. For more then a century, there were pretty much parallel societies that lived next to, not with, eachother. The split certainly was a lot stronger felt then cultural differences with a country a thousand kilometres away.

Maybe so, but obviously a Catholic and a Protestant will have more in common on social and cultural issues than a secular atheistic/soft religious West (France and Germany) vs the hardcore Catholicism of places like Poland.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 10, 2018, 02:26:37 pm
Quote
Maybe so, but obviously a Catholic and a Protestant will have more in common on social and cultural issues than a secular atheistic/soft religious West (France and Germany) vs the hardcore Catholicism of places like Poland.

But countries aren't singular entities. You talk of those in the same way people talk of 'blue states' or 'red states' in the USA - political fairytales people pretend are real to avoid admitting that the reality is a ridiciously complex shitfest. Hardcore Protestants in my country and hardcore Catholics in Poland have a lot in common, which is why the religious Dutch parties are in the same European faction as PiS and love working together. It's the same as people who say 'Scotland voted to Remain!' while 38% voted to leave to pretend it's some pro-European bullwark, or that 'Britain voted to leave!' while 48.11% voted to remain, to pretend it's somehow united in that mission.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 10, 2018, 04:37:24 pm
Quote
Maybe so, but obviously a Catholic and a Protestant will have more in common on social and cultural issues than a secular atheistic/soft religious West (France and Germany) vs the hardcore Catholicism of places like Poland.

But countries aren't singular entities. You talk of those in the same way people talk of 'blue states' or 'red states' in the USA - political fairytales people pretend are real to avoid admitting that the reality is a ridiciously complex shitfest. Hardcore Protestants in my country and hardcore Catholics in Poland have a lot in common, which is why the religious Dutch parties are in the same European faction as PiS and love working together. It's the same as people who say 'Scotland voted to Remain!' while 38% voted to leave to pretend it's some pro-European bullwark, or that 'Britain voted to leave!' while 48.11% voted to remain, to pretend it's somehow united in that mission.

Don't think I ever claimed these places were homogeneous, but there's large majorities in each country for a totally different cultural view. How well did parties opposed to abortion, gay marriage, LGBT rights etc do in the last Dutch elections? How many even stood on such a platform? In Poland political parties that are highly socially conservative took over 80% of the vote in 2015.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 15, 2018, 01:11:13 am
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/395183071919603722/413477071977971722/3ef191cd54f2c79f5a0ae48fd451ed78.png) (https://twitter.com/YouTube/status/963900837570469888)

A rather rascist tweet from YouTube, if you ask me. Imagine the uproar we'd get from the SJW's if it said "Subscribe to white creators."

What are your guys' thoughts on this so-called "Black History Month"? In my opinion, it's a ridiculous concept that shouldn't be "marked" in any way. We don't have "White History Month", nor do we have "Yellow History Month" or "Red History Month" so why the hell should we have a "Black History Month"? Besides, why should we have a month celebrating the history of a certain skin colour? What's the point of it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Windflower on February 15, 2018, 02:08:24 am
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/395183071919603722/413477071977971722/3ef191cd54f2c79f5a0ae48fd451ed78.png) (https://twitter.com/YouTube/status/963900837570469888)

A rather rascist tweet from YouTube, if you ask me. Imagine the uproar we'd get from the SJW's if it said "Subscribe to white creators."

What are your guys' thoughts on this so-called "Black History Month"? In my opinion, it's a ridiculous concept that shouldn't be "marked" in any way. We don't have "White History Month", nor do we have "Yellow History Month" or "Red History Month" so why the hell should we have a "Black History Month"? Besides, why should we have a month celebrating the history of a certain skin colour? What's the point of it?
because they been through a lotta shit as a race dawg
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on February 15, 2018, 02:20:30 am
Ironic that black history is basically Jim Crow segregation of history because we get 11 months lol

On a more realistic note, it sickens me how partisan YouTube/Google is. It went from my favorite website to a shit hole where trending is hand picked, worthy creators don’t get shit, and talk show hosts spew leftist shit with no demonitization. It’s sad to see what it’s become. I honestly thought their twitter was hacked but nope, just retarded
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Jakester on February 15, 2018, 02:26:31 am
Ironic that black history is basically Jim Crow segregation of history because we get 11 months lol

On a more realistic note, it sickens me how partisan YouTube/Google is. It went from my favorite website to a shit hole where trending is hand picked, worthy creators don’t get shit, and talk show hosts spew leftist shit with no demonitization. It’s sad to see what it’s become. I honestly thought their twitter was hacked but nope, just retarded
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on February 15, 2018, 02:44:02 am
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/395183071919603722/413477071977971722/3ef191cd54f2c79f5a0ae48fd451ed78.png) (https://twitter.com/YouTube/status/963900837570469888)

A rather rascist tweet from YouTube, if you ask me. Imagine the uproar we'd get from the SJW's if it said "Subscribe to white creators."

What are your guys' thoughts on this so-called "Black History Month"? In my opinion, it's a ridiculous concept that shouldn't be "marked" in any way. We don't have "White History Month", nor do we have "Yellow History Month" or "Red History Month" so why the hell should we have a "Black History Month"? Besides, why should we have a month celebrating the history of a certain skin colour? What's the point of it?
because they been through a lotta shit as a race dawg

So has every race.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Ledger on February 15, 2018, 06:10:48 pm
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/395183071919603722/413477071977971722/3ef191cd54f2c79f5a0ae48fd451ed78.png) (https://twitter.com/YouTube/status/963900837570469888)

A rather rascist tweet from YouTube, if you ask me. Imagine the uproar we'd get from the SJW's if it said "Subscribe to white creators."

What are your guys' thoughts on this so-called "Black History Month"? In my opinion, it's a ridiculous concept that shouldn't be "marked" in any way. We don't have "White History Month", nor do we have "Yellow History Month" or "Red History Month" so why the hell should we have a "Black History Month"? Besides, why should we have a month celebrating the history of a certain skin colour? What's the point of it?

What did you expect from a fascistic company such as Google?

Edit :

https://twitter.com/StefanMolyneux/status/963908726842380290
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 15, 2018, 08:20:00 pm
Yeah, I saw that yesterday. It's crazy, they call everyone who's saying this is ridiculous 'rascists' whilist being racist themselves. Thank God we don't "celebrate" this month in Europe. (atleast not in Norway, not so sure about other parts of Europe, but I don't think so)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Windflower on February 15, 2018, 08:34:58 pm
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/395183071919603722/413477071977971722/3ef191cd54f2c79f5a0ae48fd451ed78.png) (https://twitter.com/YouTube/status/963900837570469888)

A rather rascist tweet from YouTube, if you ask me. Imagine the uproar we'd get from the SJW's if it said "Subscribe to white creators."

What are your guys' thoughts on this so-called "Black History Month"? In my opinion, it's a ridiculous concept that shouldn't be "marked" in any way. We don't have "White History Month", nor do we have "Yellow History Month" or "Red History Month" so why the hell should we have a "Black History Month"? Besides, why should we have a month celebrating the history of a certain skin colour? What's the point of it?
because they been through a lotta shit as a race dawg

So has every race.
blacks probably had it the worst throughout history
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on February 15, 2018, 08:38:00 pm
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/395183071919603722/413477071977971722/3ef191cd54f2c79f5a0ae48fd451ed78.png) (https://twitter.com/YouTube/status/963900837570469888)

A rather rascist tweet from YouTube, if you ask me. Imagine the uproar we'd get from the SJW's if it said "Subscribe to white creators."

What are your guys' thoughts on this so-called "Black History Month"? In my opinion, it's a ridiculous concept that shouldn't be "marked" in any way. We don't have "White History Month", nor do we have "Yellow History Month" or "Red History Month" so why the hell should we have a "Black History Month"? Besides, why should we have a month celebrating the history of a certain skin colour? What's the point of it?
because they been through a lotta shit as a race dawg

So has every race.
blacks probably had it the worst throughout history
Because they had shit societies, leaders and organization / complicity to whites such as selling slaves to traders. They did it all to themselves and deserve no remorse
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 15, 2018, 08:38:08 pm
-
because they been through a lotta shit as a race dawg

So has every race.
blacks probably had it the worst throughout history

Still doesn't mean that they deserve to have an entire month dedicated to their 'history' as well as have sites like YouTube licking their feet.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Windflower on February 15, 2018, 08:47:23 pm
Spoiler
-
because they been through a lotta shit as a race dawg

So has every race.
blacks probably had it the worst throughout history

Still doesn't mean that they deserve to have an entire month dedicated to their 'history' as well as have sites like YouTube licking their feet.
[close]
Leftist companies ruin the peace of black history month imo, its whats popular and accepted so thats what they're going for I guess trying to have a clever marketing campaign.  :-\
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 15, 2018, 08:54:38 pm
Spoiler
-
because they been through a lotta shit as a race dawg

So has every race.
blacks probably had it the worst throughout history

Still doesn't mean that they deserve to have an entire month dedicated to their 'history' as well as have sites like YouTube licking their feet.
[close]
Leftist companies ruin the peace of black history month imo, its whats popular and accepted so thats what they're going for I guess trying to have a clever marketing campaign.  :-\

Reminds me of when Netflix created that (clearly racist) show "Dear White People". I wonder what companies like Google and Netflix want to achieve by having 'pro-black' marketing campaigns such as this. So far they've not achieved anything except infuriate a lot of people as well as creating a bigger divide between people.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on February 15, 2018, 09:08:54 pm
In fairness, Black History Month is a predominantly American thing, and the blacks have had it the worst in U.S history, maybe the natives could compete but its not like their abuse was was completely intentional.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: hunter491 on February 15, 2018, 09:22:17 pm
In fairness, Black History Month is a predominantly American thing, and the blacks have had it the worst in U.S history, maybe the natives could compete but its not like their abuse was was completely intentional.

Morgan Freeman disagrees with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Jayke on February 15, 2018, 09:48:07 pm
Any good TV Shows?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on February 15, 2018, 10:12:56 pm
Not really, I think most of the good ones are finished now.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 15, 2018, 10:41:59 pm
I think you guys are on the wrong thread. Go here (https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=34076.0) instead.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: BabyJesus on February 15, 2018, 10:55:48 pm
What actually is the point of black history month?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on February 16, 2018, 12:14:34 am
In fairness, Black History Month is a predominantly American thing, and the blacks have had it the worst in U.S history, maybe the natives could compete but its not like their abuse was was completely intentional.

The Irish had it worse, they were slaves too.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on February 16, 2018, 01:40:55 am
In fairness, Black History Month is a predominantly American thing, and the blacks have had it the worst in U.S history, maybe the natives could compete but its not like their abuse was was completely intentional.

The Irish had it worse, they were slaves too.
I'm think you're using the word "worst" a little too lightly
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on February 16, 2018, 01:43:23 am
In fairness, Black History Month is a predominantly American thing, and the blacks have had it the worst in U.S history, maybe the natives could compete but its not like their abuse was was completely intentional.

The Irish had it worse, they were slaves too.
I'm think you're using the word "worst" a little too lightly

Exactly. that's why I used worse.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: fruitocino on February 16, 2018, 01:52:06 am
How does subscribing to a black creator who has nothing in common with those you hear about during black history month (that's what I'm guessing) apart from their skin color help at all? Why do they deserve someone's support just for being black?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on February 16, 2018, 01:55:03 am
Participation ribbons man, if you are a certain colour or certain sexuality you should deserve more attention cause other groups had that attention before.
Asides from what you produce, apparantly being just different is enough to be praised, which really shouldn't be the case on a site like Youtube.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on February 16, 2018, 01:57:44 am
In fairness, Black History Month is a predominantly American thing, and the blacks have had it the worst in U.S history, maybe the natives could compete but its not like their abuse was was completely intentional.

The Irish had it worse, they were slaves too.
I'm think you're using the word "worst" a little too lightly

Exactly. that's why I used worse.
Cheeky little shit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on February 16, 2018, 02:04:38 am
In fairness, Black History Month is a predominantly American thing, and the blacks have had it the worst in U.S history, maybe the natives could compete but its not like their abuse was was completely intentional.

The Irish had it worse, they were slaves too.
I'm think you're using the word "worst" a little too lightly

Exactly. that's why I used worse.
Cheeky little shit.

Alright butt.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on February 16, 2018, 06:17:38 am
communist logic
(https://thefederalistpapers.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/imageedit_1989_9479319885.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 16, 2018, 06:44:37 pm
So, looks like Corbyn was likely to have been a paid informant of the StB (Czech communist version of KGB) during the 1980s. Either Corbyn is lying or his alleged former handler is.
https://order-order.com/2018/02/16/agent-cob-paid-informant-alleges-czech-spyi-expelled-london-british-intelligence-learned-id-recruited-jezcorbyn-denies-commie-koruna-claim/

http://observer.com/2018/02/new-report-reveals-jeremy-corbyn-was-a-communist-spy-in-1980s/

For some reason this has yet to be reported by the BBC despite it being a massive story.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 16, 2018, 07:41:22 pm
Didn’t MI5 say something about this?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on February 16, 2018, 09:01:31 pm
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-indictment/russians-charged-with-2016-u-s-election-tampering-to-boost-trump-idUSKCN1G022U
Shits going down.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on February 16, 2018, 09:11:20 pm
Does the American government have the jurisdiction to prosecute Russian citizens?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 16, 2018, 09:16:14 pm
Does the American government have the jurisdiction to prosecute Russian citizens?
I believe they can if they’re on American soil but apparently it’s against the Russian constitution to extradite people.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 16, 2018, 09:19:28 pm
Does the American government have the jurisdiction to prosecute Russian citizens?
I believe they can if they’re on American soil but apparently it’s against the Russian constitution to extradite people.

Why would the Russian government extradite their own citizens to another country? (especially when the country in question has sour relations with Russia)

There needs to be a extradition treaty in place in order for Russia to extradite their citizens as well.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on February 16, 2018, 09:39:55 pm
Pure delusion tbh, it's almost comical that it's gotten to this point.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 16, 2018, 09:42:31 pm
Does the American government have the jurisdiction to prosecute Russian citizens?
I believe they can if they’re on American soil but apparently it’s against the Russian constitution to extradite people.

Why would the Russian government extradite their own citizens to another country? (especially when the country in question has sour relations with Russia)

There needs to be a extradition treaty in place in order for Russia to extradite their citizens as well.
Yes they wouldn't but I'm just saying that even if they wanted to it's legally against their constitution, treaty or not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 16, 2018, 09:53:39 pm
You don't need to have someone in the courtroom to prosecute him. They'll trial them In Abstentia. But yeah, Russia is exactly never going to extradite anyone. Same goes for the guys who shot down MH17 or are responsible for it. It annoys me to no end that the Dutch government still pretends they will be prosecuted and punished.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 16, 2018, 11:21:27 pm
You don't need to have someone in the courtroom to prosecute him. They'll trial them In Abstentia. But yeah, Russia is exactly never going to extradite anyone. Same goes for the guys who shot down MH17 or are responsible for it. It annoys me to no end that the Dutch government still pretends they will be prosecuted and punished.

Nobody knows for certain who shot down MH17 though.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on February 16, 2018, 11:44:34 pm
I guess that's why Russia where the ones that vetoed against holding a trial for the suspects in the UN security council?

Russian weaponry was used by Ukraininan separatists to shoot down MH17.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 16, 2018, 11:49:39 pm
I guess that's why Russia where the ones that vetoed against holding a trial for the suspects in the UN security council.

Russia vetoed it because it would have ended up in being a very one-sided court. I'll quote what Lavrov said about the proposal.

“The proposal itself was very peculiar. It was proposed in the draft statute to establish the tribunal based mostly on Ukrainian law and for the judges and prosecutors in the tribunal to be appointed by the Secretary-General without consulting the Security Council and that the judges should have experience in exercising Ukrainian and Malaysian law.”

You could read this article to get a full view on why the Russians didn't want to accept the intl. tribunal.
https://www.rt.com/news/311691-lavrov-mh17-malaysia-asean/

Responding to your edit about Russian weaponry, it was in fact Soviet weaponry, that is also in posession of the Ukrainian army. There's no valid proof that shows it was separatist forces that shot down the plane. There's a working theory in Russia that the Ukrainians were in fact wishing to shoot down the Russian presidential plane which was going to fly a similar route, but instead ended up shooting down the wrong plane.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: AeroNinja on February 16, 2018, 11:53:43 pm
The faster the UK is out of the EU the better. I'll move to the UK when that happens. Been there, nice place.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 16, 2018, 11:55:38 pm
The faster the UK is out of the EU the better. I'll move to the UK when that happens. Been there, nice place.

The only unfortunate thing with a potential dissolution of the European Union/Schengen is that we'll have closed borders again and will require visas in order to visit other European countries. But it's a small price to pay for increased security really.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on February 17, 2018, 12:00:34 am
I guess that's why Russia where the ones that vetoed against holding a trial for the suspects in the UN security council.

Russia vetoed it because it would have ended up in being a very one-sided court. I'll quote what Lavrov said about the proposal.

“The proposal itself was very peculiar. It was proposed in the draft statute to establish the tribunal based mostly on Ukrainian law and for the judges and prosecutors in the tribunal to be appointed by the Secretary-General without consulting the Security Council and that the judges should have experience in exercising Ukrainian and Malaysian law.”

You could read this article to get a full view on why the Russians didn't want to accept the intl. tribunal.
https://www.rt.com/news/311691-lavrov-mh17-malaysia-asean/

Responding to your edit about Russian weaponry, it was in fact Soviet weaponry, that is also in posession of the Ukrainian army. There's no valid proof that shows it was separatist forces that shot down the plane. There's a working theory in Russia that the Ukrainians were in fact wishing to shoot down the Russian presidential plane which was going to fly a similar route, but instead ended up shooting down the wrong plane.

rt nice meme.

No valid proof hmm I guess all of the world are just against Russia, Russia is clearly the only country to act objectively in all situations a perfect country with a perfect people.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: AeroNinja on February 17, 2018, 12:02:17 am
The faster the UK is out of the EU the better. I'll move to the UK when that happens. Been there, nice place.

The only unfortunate thing with a potential dissolution of the European Union/Schengen is that we'll have closed borders again and will require visas in order to visit other European countries. But it's a small price to pay for increased security really.
I wish Belgium had that already. Immigrants think they are the boss here. Not all of them, but a lot.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: XIIIth_Baltimore on February 17, 2018, 12:02:32 am
it's time to unite, but everything is just leave they unions
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 12:15:22 am
-

-

rt nice meme.

No valid proof hmm I guess all of the world are just against Russia, Russia is clearly the only country to act objectively in all situation a perfect country with a perfect people.

No matter how much you dislike RT, it still remains a valid source.

That's some nice passive aggressive Russia-bashing you got there, reminds me of the Democrats and the rest of the western MSM. Nobody ever claimed that Russia is perfect, but the way the tribunal was proposed to be made would end up in it being one-sided and biased. And yeah, the question of who shot down the plane still remains unanswered as there's no concrete evidence telling us who shot down the plane.

But there's no point in debating this really. You'll be standing on your point, bashing Russia on all accounts that you can, and I'll be standing on mine over here defending Russia. ::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on February 17, 2018, 12:17:42 am
RT is as relevant as Fox News or CNN.

One sided? The evidence is overwhelmingly against Russia of course it would be one sided.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: XIIIth_Baltimore on February 17, 2018, 12:23:08 am
Trusting the MSM, not your own opinion and belief is not smart. In addition, the plane fell not on the territory of Russia.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 12:30:38 am
RT is as relevant as Fox News or CNN.

One sided? The evidence is overwhelmingly against Russia of course it would be one sided.

There's no evidence pointing against Russia though. Anything can be fabricated, as they already tried to do. (check this (https://www.rt.com/news/412913-mh17-bellingcat-russian-general/) out) Also, why did the Dutchies did not want to have an open and transparent analysis of the "secret data" about the plane crash that they received from the United States? They claimed that it would be a 'conflict of interest', but that's some next level bullshit. They probably threw some stuff together, and probably passed it on as evidence against Russia. In any case, I don't see how it would hurt to have a transparent analysis of the data, with the participation of Russian analysts as well. Getting a bit shady here...

Russia was very wise in vetoing the tribunal, seeing as it would be created, filled with judges that would be biased and working specifically against Russia. And please, don't compare RT to the filth that is CNN. RT is way more credible than them. (This I know you'll certaintly disagree with and say it's muh Russian propaganda but you know very well I disagree with you on that :P)

But Furrnox, we're wasting our time here really. I think it's quite clear that you'll staunchly remain on your side, same as I will be on mine. We've been through these kinds of discussions before and nothing has changed with time. I'll be heading off to bed, I suggest you do the same (getting rather late in Sweden as well), but other than that enjoy the rest of your Friday evening/Saturday morning.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on February 17, 2018, 12:31:56 am
Again you link RT as a source, I can't take you seriously when you do that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 12:33:50 am
You’re defending Russia even though it was them who supplied the equipment and are constantly being the aggressor in the Ukraine?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 12:35:44 am
Again you link RT as a source, I can't take you seriously when you do that.

And I can't take you serious when you use claims from your liberal, Russophobic media. I can use the same argument against you. There's nothing wrong with using RT as a source btw. It's actually a great source of news, and I'd recommend you read it but I know you won't. (hurr durr Russian propaganda) It's funny that for you it's apperantly enough to "invalidate" all my evidence because apperantly hurr durr RT is Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 12:36:03 am
Yes, Russians are evil aggressors who want to conquer the world and eat your brains.

We should ban all Russians from FSE community. Olympic committee will be pleased.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: XIIIth_Baltimore on February 17, 2018, 12:39:13 am
LOLOLOLOLOL Seriously, it's like you take the news from first hand and think that you can trust LOLOLOLOLOL
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: XIIIth_Baltimore on February 17, 2018, 12:40:55 am
Omg goikov laughing to tears XDDDD
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 12:44:54 am
You’re defending Russia even though it was them who supplied the equipment and are constantly being the aggressor in the Ukraine?

ahahahah, of course. A typical argument from a typical Westerner. Naturally Russia supplies the separatists with weapons so that they can stand a chance at defending themselves against the Ukrainians with all their fancy Western tech, but hm, let's see, what started the whole Civil War in Ukraine? Ah, yes. It was the fact that the new nazi junta in Kiev decided to ban Russian, as well as start extreme oppressions against the Russian population. It's only natural that the Russians in the East took up arms to defend themselves (as well as get support from the Russian state), especially when extremist armed right wing groups such as Azov battalion or the Right Sector come down to loot, pillage, rape and murder.

Oh and yes, it's so nice when you teach your children to shout "Москалей на ножи! (Muscovites on knives! lit. translation, basically means kill all Russians) isn't it? Just spreading all that Western European liberalism, democracy and love ::)

Here, enjoy a piece of what you will call my Russian propaganda. Perhaps you'll get somewhat of a understanding of why I choose to support the people who are literally just defending themselves from aggression. Most likely not though, but whatever.
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMLQVRkPbQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV7g_TA0DV8
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on February 17, 2018, 12:45:34 am
Again you link RT as a source, I can't take you seriously when you do that.

And I can't take you serious when you use claims from your liberal, Russophobic media. I can use the same argument against you. There's nothing wrong with using RT as a source btw. It's actually a great source of news, and I'd recommend you read it but I know you won't. (hurr durr Russian propaganda) It's funny that for you it's apperantly enough to "invalidate" all my evidence because apperantly hurr durr RT is Russian propaganda.

RT is funded by the Russian government, do I trust the Russian government? No so do I trust RT? Hell no.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 12:46:00 am
One sided? The evidence is overwhelmingly against Russia of course it would be one sided.

What overwhelming evidence? Have you read Dutch and Russian reports? Are you an aircrash investigator (you picked it up on National geographic?)?

The Dutch report stated that the MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air guided missile, made in Russia, used in about 50 other countries in the world, including Ukrainian air force. Let's say you read that, it definitely proves the Russians shot down the MH17? Where's the motive? Why would Russian air force send a plane into Ukrainian airspace to shoot down a civilian plane?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 12:48:34 am
RT is funded by the Russian government, do I trust the Russian government? No so do I trust RT? Hell no.

Vice versa. I'm certain you trust things like Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (which is funded by the American government and spreads the most hilarious propaganda I've ever seen), but even if you come to me with some other privately owned newspaper or whatever, I still won't trust them because no matter how "independent" they claim to be, there's always someone with the money behind them. *cough* Soros *cough*
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on February 17, 2018, 12:48:38 am
RT is a good source so long as the news involves anything that is not involved with Russia. The whole Russian media apparatus is literally built to make people support the Russian government and its views.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: XIIIth_Baltimore on February 17, 2018, 12:49:29 am
I think in Western msm only in the animal world the truth give people lolol, btw i can say this about all MSM
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 12:51:42 am
RT is a good source so long as the news involves anything that is not involved with Russia. The whole Russian media apparatus is literally built to make people support the Russian government and its views.

Which is exactly why the medias exist, to spread propaganda according to various interests of countries, companies, political figures or whoever owns them/funds them. Those who fund them, fund them for a reason, their own.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 17, 2018, 12:53:32 am
Responding to your edit about Russian weaponry, it was in fact Soviet weaponry, that is also in posession of the Ukrainian army. There's no valid proof that shows it was separatist forces that shot down the plane. There's a working theory in Russia that the Ukrainians were in fact wishing to shoot down the Russian presidential plane which was going to fly a similar route, but instead ended up shooting down the wrong plane.

'A working theory'. Didn't know that was a new name for a 'totally retarded piece of fiction'.

Seperatists (including the leadership) were rejoicing on social media they shot down an airplane. They took pictures. Russian Media reported on it - and then it turned out a civilian airliner was missing, and they suddenly denied everything. They had actually shot down Antonov's before, supplying the border posts enclaves, and they were aiming for one of those again when they hit MH17 by accident.

To pretend none of that happens and suggest Ukraine would be retarded enough to shoot down Putin means you either just don't want to believe the truth or you're just an idiot. What would Ukraine gain? Giving Russians the perfect excuse to actually officially invade? Losing all support from allies by such an aggressive act, a warcrime even? Expanding a war they were winning? How, in your head, does this theory seem even remotely plausible?

One sided? The evidence is overwhelmingly against Russia of course it would be one sided.

What overwhelming evidence? Have you read Dutch and Russian reports? Are you an aircrash investigator (you picked it up on National geographic?)?

The Dutch report stated that the MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air guided missile, made in Russia, used in about 50 other countries in the world, including Ukrainian air force. Let's say you read that, it definitely proves the Russians shot down the MH17? Where's the motive? Why would Russian air force send a plane into Ukrainian airspace to shoot down a civilian plane?

No, the Dutch report said MH17 was shot down by a BUK, made in Russia, shot from territory held by seperatists. Never, ever, was there any suggestion or claim it was done by an air-to-air guided missile. Where did you get that information? The report is clear, and you need more then conspiracy theories to debunk it.

https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/mh17-rapport-dit-zijn-de-belangrijkste-conclusies
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 12:53:47 am
RT is a good source so long as the news involves anything that is not involved with Russia. The whole Russian media apparatus is literally built to make people support the Russian government and its views.

I can understand that it can be perceived by biased as some, but RT simply delivers the Russian viewpoint very efficiently, same as all other media do. Of course, I can't claim that RT is a unbiased, non-sided news source. At the same time, neither can any of you, considering all media have their side that they're on and their point that they wish to propagate. There's no truly independent news source, there never has been, and there never will be. One must simply pick a side.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 12:56:35 am
Norwegian are you trolling because this is silly. You sound like Putin's PR department. If Russia is such an innocent country then why have Russian soldiers been in the Ukraine?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on February 17, 2018, 12:56:50 am
RT is a good source so long as the news involves anything that is not involved with Russia. The whole Russian media apparatus is literally built to make people support the Russian government and its views.

I can understand that it can be perceived by biased as some, but RT simply delivers the Russian viewpoint very efficiently, same as all other media do. Of course, I can't claim that RT is a unbiased, non-sided news source. At the same time, neither can any of you, considering all media have their side that they're on and their point that they wish to propagate. There's no truly independent news source, there never has been, and there never will be. One must simply pick a side.
Ok, but something like the BBC is a far better news source to sight than RT concerning the events in Ukraine. Given the fact that Russia wants Crimea and Ukraine in its sphere its not hard to see why RT is not a good source.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 17, 2018, 12:58:05 am
Norwegian are you trolling because this is silly. You sound like Putin's PR department. If Russia is such an innocent country then why have Russian soldiers been in the Ukraine?

In be4 'muh nazi coup', 'muh Russiaphobia', 'muh American imperialism is worse', 'muh Putin is just defending Russia' and 'muh NATO aggression'.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 01:00:47 am
No, the Dutch report said MH17 was shot down by a BUK, made in Russia. Never, ever, was there any suggestion or claim it was done by an air-to-air guided missile. Where did you get that information?

https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/mh17-rapport-dit-zijn-de-belangrijkste-conclusies

Can't read the link you provided, I don't speak Dutch.

Even if it was shot down by a BUK missle system, still doesn't answer why would the russian shoot down a civilian plane? They didn't gain anything from it...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 01:02:03 am
Responding to your edit about Russian weaponry, it was in fact Soviet weaponry, that is also in posession of the Ukrainian army. There's no valid proof that shows it was separatist forces that shot down the plane. There's a working theory in Russia that the Ukrainians were in fact wishing to shoot down the Russian presidential plane which was going to fly a similar route, but instead ended up shooting down the wrong plane.

'A working theory'. Didn't know that was a new name for a 'totally retarded piece of fiction'.

Seperatists (including the leadership) were rejoicing on social media they shot down an airplane. They took pictures. Russian Media reported on it - and then it turned out a civilian airliner was missing, and they suddenly denied everything. They had actually shot down Antonov's before, supplying the border posts enclaves, and they were aiming for one of those again when they hit MH17 by accident.

To pretend none of that happens and suggest Ukraine would be retarded enough to shoot down Putin means you either just don't want to believe the truth or you're just an idiot. What would Ukraine gain? Giving Russians the perfect excuse to actually officially invade? Losing all support from allies by such an aggressive act, a warcrime even? Expanding a war they were winning? How, in your head, does this theory seem even remotely plausible?


An assassination of Putin would be ideal for Ukraine and the west, as at the moment there's nobody as strong as Putin to lead the Russian government. It's of course nice that you've gained your information from Wikipedia Duuring, but there's no proof that the separatist leaders actually even posted this stuff celebrating on social media. As I already mentioned, anything can be fabricated, especially in regards to Social Media posts. When a group of western 'investigators' go to Ukraine and claim to have spotted a Russian Colonel General who in fact was in Yekaterinburg and had never been in Ukraine (read the article I linked to in one of my responses earlier to Furrnox) they can literally come up with anything. Oh and, before you try and come combatting me with those audio recordings of separatist leaders talking about them wrongly shooting down a passanger plane, don't even bother because that's also fabricated.

Oh and don't you worry, this would have all been hushed up by the West and Ukraine itself as the separatists shooting down the wrong plane. Think about it, it's an excellent plan that would have worked excellently, had they not fired at the wrong plane and ended up downing the MH17.

What is a totally retarded piece of fiction is your theory that it was the Russians or the separatists who shot down the Malaysian jetliner. What the bloody hell do they gain from that?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: XIIIth_Baltimore on February 17, 2018, 01:03:07 am
Norwegian are you trolling because this is silly. You sound like Putin's PR department. If Russia is such an innocent country then why have Russian soldiers been in the Ukraine?

suka blyat, Who say you about russian solders in Ukraine????!!!! Your mom? mb she live in Donbass and say you about this, or you see this stupid news in your zombie box????????
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 01:05:19 am
Norwegian, Putin is the strongest leader for Russia because he keeps having all the others killed
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 01:06:08 am
Norwegian are you trolling because this is silly. You sound like Putin's PR department. If Russia is such an innocent country then why have Russian soldiers been in the Ukraine?

Why are US/NATO soldiers in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Lybia etc.? To protect their government's interests?

Russia sent soldiers for a few reasons: to protect those who declare themselves Russian in Ukraine and are under current Ukrainian government's oppression; to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO and having more NATO troops on its borders.

If NATO can bomb and ruin countries without anyone's approval, especially UN's, and go directly against the international law, then so can anyone else (Russia, China, North Korea, you name it).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 01:06:26 am
Norwegian are you trolling because this is silly. You sound like Putin's PR department. If Russia is such an innocent country then why have Russian soldiers been in the Ukraine?

In be4 'muh nazi coup', 'muh Russiaphobia', 'muh American imperialism is worse', 'muh Putin is just defending Russia' and 'muh NATO aggression'.

That's exactly how it is though.

It's you that come here with your 'muh Russian aggression', 'muh repression', 'muh liberal values are threatened!!', 'muh blame Russia for all the faults and inconviniences in my life'

Oh and I would gladly work for Putin's PR department, would be a pleasure. And no, I'm not trolling Toffee. You've just not experienced anyone with pro-Russian views talk to you before, I guess.

@Conway I don't trust an ounce of what BBC says about Ukraine or the Crimean situation, seeing as they have their goals for it as well. BBC is owned by the British government, the British government is a potential ally of Ukraine in the EU and in NATO, so of course the Brits would want the Ukrainians to win. It's all very simple really.

Norwegian, Putin is the strongest leader for Russia because he keeps having all the others killed

And again, no proof for this. Russia has some good leader candidates too though, Lavrov and Shoigu are two great men I believe could do a marvellous job at leading Russia, but they need to be prepared for it, and I don't think they'd be ready for the task if Putin would suddenly die.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 01:07:37 am
lmao the BBC is not owned by the British government
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 01:08:35 am
Norwegian, Putin is the strongest leader for Russia because he keeps having all the others killed

You really miss having Stalin and KGB around, don't you? :P
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 01:09:15 am
lmao the BBC is not owned by the British government

Who is it owned by then? It's irrelevant anyways, since they'll still be propagating the British view regardless of who owns them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 01:09:41 am
Norwegian, Putin is the strongest leader for Russia because he keeps having all the others killed

You really miss having Stalin and KGB around, don't you? :P
Just because they were pricks that doesn't make Putin good
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on February 17, 2018, 01:09:45 am

An assassination of Putin would be ideal for Ukraine and the west, as at the moment there's nobody as strong as Putin to lead the Russian government.
Yes, we wouldn't want any of those weak, capitalist, democrats running Russia would we?
Der Führer Vladmir keep Russia stronk backbone of cripple world.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 01:12:11 am

An assassination of Putin would be ideal for Ukraine and the west, as at the moment there's nobody as strong as Putin to lead the Russian government.
Yes, we wouldn't want any of those weak, capitalist, democrats running Russia would me?
Der Führer Vladmir keep Russia stronk backbone of cripple world.

Believe it or not, Russians actually elect him and he enjoys an approval rating western leaders only can dream of. That's because everyone in Russia remembers the horrors of the '90s. When the "great" democracy finally came to the "terrible" Soviet Union. When crime boomed, economy collapsed, and the country was made a fool of by those greatly democratic capitalist leaders such as Yeltsin. Those who opened a window to the west. A window, that we would so wish to close, but unfortunately can't.

Norwegian, Putin is the strongest leader for Russia because he keeps having all the others killed

You really miss having Stalin and KGB around, don't you? :P
Just because they were pricks that doesn't make Putin good

Unlike Stalin though, Putin hasn't killed anyone in his opposition.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 01:13:25 am
Honestly not worth arguing with somebody so brainwashed
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: XIIIth_Baltimore on February 17, 2018, 01:13:34 am
Give rule of Russia in hands of Zhirinovsky and you see ALL FUCKING RUSSIAN MILITARY POWER. And you will finally understand that Putin is a peace-loving man
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 01:13:56 am
Just because they were pricks that doesn't make Putin good

Pricks, nicely put, would really like to know more of what you know about Stalin and USSR. No, that doesn't make Putin good nor bad.

Yes, we wouldn't want any of those weak, capitalist, democrats running Russia would me?
Der Führer Vladmir keep Russia stronk backbone of cripple world.

Yet, Putin was and most probably will be chosen again by the citizens of Russian Federation. And as long as the citizens of RF elect him, he'll be their president. In case you didn't notice, Russia is a capitalist, democratic state, how do you think they got so many millionaires?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 01:14:09 am
Honestly not worth arguing with somebody so brainwashed

Vice versa.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 17, 2018, 01:14:27 am
Can't read the link you provided, I don't speak Dutch.

Even if it was shot down by a BUK missle system, still doesn't answer why would the russian shoot down a civilian plane? They didn't gain anything from it...

Quote
What is a totally retarded piece of fiction is your theory that it was the Russians or the separatists who shot down the Malaysian jetliner. What the bloody hell do they gain from that?

Like I said before, they mistook it for an Antonov transport plane (which they had shot down before). I'm convinced they never meant to shoot it down, but they did. I'd love to add a 'and justice will be served' to that, but we all know that's not going to happen. Russia will to the end of times deny it ever had anything to do with it, and as long as it has idiots like you, it can get away with it.

Quote
That's exactly how it is though.

You forgot 'muh Russian-speakers oppression'.

How anyone can call Russia a democracy in 2018 is just beyond me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 01:14:50 am
Just because they were pricks that doesn't make Putin good

Pricks, nicely put, would really like to know more of what you know about Stalin and USSR. No, that doesn't make Putin good nor bad.

Yes, we wouldn't want any of those weak, capitalist, democrats running Russia would me?
Der Führer Vladmir keep Russia stronk backbone of cripple world.

Yet, Putin was and most probably will be chosen again by the citizens of Russian Federation. And as long as the citizens of RF elect him, he'll be their president. In case you didn't notice, Russia is a capitalist, democratic state, how do you think they got so many millionaires?
Stalin wasn't a prick? You heard it here first guys
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: XIIIth_Baltimore on February 17, 2018, 01:16:22 am
Honestly not worth arguing with somebody so brainwashed

I agree with you, why you still here my brainykid???????
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on February 17, 2018, 01:16:48 am

An assassination of Putin would be ideal for Ukraine and the west, as at the moment there's nobody as strong as Putin to lead the Russian government.
Yes, we wouldn't want any of those weak, capitalist, democrats running Russia would me?
Der Führer Vladmir keep Russia stronk backbone of cripple world.

Believe it or not, Russians actually elect him and he enjoys an approval rating western leaders only can dream of.
That's mainly because Western leaders don't control their media and can't have their opposition "dealt with". Not saying democracy in Russia has been a great thing thus far, but I can't remember the last time a Western country killed 20 million of its own people.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 17, 2018, 01:17:05 am
The BBC is constantly having arguments with the British government regardless of which party is in power. The relationship between them really isn't that cosy. When was the last time RT said anything even mildly embarrassing or critical of Putin?

For foreign events I think the BBC is as good as it gets. Has its natural biases when covering domestic UK politics and is as bad as CNN in that respect, but RT was clearly conceived as a propaganda outfit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 01:17:41 am
I'm not gonna say anything other than to reiterate what Conway and Duuring are saying.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 01:19:22 am
Like I said before, they mistook it for an Antonov transport plane (which they had shot down before). I'm convinced they never meant to shoot it down, but they did. I'd love to add a 'and justice will be served' to that, but we all know that's not going to happen. Russia will to the end of times deny it ever had anything to do with it, and as long as it has idiots like you, it can get away with it.

Mistaking an Antonov radar signature for a Boing 777 is literally impossible (unless it was Ray Charles or Steve Wonder operating BUK), especially with BUK m3 systems Russians are using.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 17, 2018, 01:20:29 am
Like I said before, they mistook it for an Antonov transport plane (which they had shot down before). I'm convinced they never meant to shoot it down, but they did. I'd love to add a 'and justice will be served' to that, but we all know that's not going to happen. Russia will to the end of times deny it ever had anything to do with it, and as long as it has idiots like you, it can get away with it.

Mistaking an Antonov radar signature for a Boing 777 is literally impossible (unless it was Ray Charles or Steve Wonder operating them), especially with BUK m3 systems Russians are using.

A few posts ago you were still claiming the Dutch OVV report said it was an air-to-air missile. Yeah, I just don't trust what you're saying at this point.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 01:20:33 am
Can't read the link you provided, I don't speak Dutch.

Even if it was shot down by a BUK missle system, still doesn't answer why would the russian shoot down a civilian plane? They didn't gain anything from it...

Quote
What is a totally retarded piece of fiction is your theory that it was the Russians or the separatists who shot down the Malaysian jetliner. What the bloody hell do they gain from that?

Like I said before, they mistook it for an Antonov transport plane (which they had shot down before). I'm convinced they never meant to shoot it down, but they did. I'd love to add a 'and justice will be served' to that, but we all know that's not going to happen. Russia will to the end of times deny it ever had anything to do with it, and as long as it has idiots like you, it can get away with it.


I don't remember any justice being served after Iran Air Flight 655 was shot down by the United States. No apology either, funnily enough. And as long as the west has idiots like you, we'll never be able to find peace, friendship and common ground between Russia and the west, because unlike you, us who are 'brainwashed' by the Russians are not opposed to friendly and open relations between the two sides, and on the contrary encourage them. If Russia wasn't for this themselves, they wouldn't constantly offer co-operation between themselves and the west. (e.g transparent and open investigation of MH17 shooting, co-operation through OSCE to resolve the conflict in Eastern Ukraine etc.) But you, brainwashed with your anti-Russian propaganda will naturally be an opponent to this because hurr durr Russia is bad and will be until they get a liberal government such as Yeltsin's that'll be ready to sell all of Russia simply for their personal gain.

And trust me, I'm sure that Ukrainian serviceman got quite so punished by his superiors after they realized he had shot down a civilian airliner and not Putin, so rest assured that atleast some kind of justice has been served.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 01:22:09 am
A few posts ago you were still claiming the Dutch OVV report said it was an air-to-air missile. Yeah, I just don't trust what you're saying at this point.

yeah, I'm responding to your claims without even trying to get into where and when I read about an air-to-air missile
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 17, 2018, 01:22:55 am
Russia wants peace and friendship? Tell that to the people living in the Donbas.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 01:24:02 am
The BBC is constantly having arguments with the British government regardless of which party is in power. The relationship between them really isn't that cosy. When was the last time RT said anything even mildly embarrassing or critical of Putin?

For foreign events I think the BBC is as good as it gets. Has its natural biases when covering domestic UK politics and is as bad as CNN in that respect, but RT was clearly conceived as a propaganda outfit.

So now it's criteria that a news source HAS to criticize the country it's from in order to be perceived as unbiased? What if there aren't reasons for them to criticize Putin? Have you ever thought about that? Because he's never really done anything against the Russian interest. Oh and trust me, those who wish to criticize Putin do so freely. I know a lot of Russians were unhappy with the government's handling of the olympic scandal, and nobody's been killing or arresting them yet.


An assassination of Putin would be ideal for Ukraine and the west, as at the moment there's nobody as strong as Putin to lead the Russian government.
Yes, we wouldn't want any of those weak, capitalist, democrats running Russia would me?
Der Führer Vladmir keep Russia stronk backbone of cripple world.

Believe it or not, Russians actually elect him and he enjoys an approval rating western leaders only can dream of.
That's mainly because Western leaders don't control their media and can't have their opposition "dealt with". Not saying democracy in Russia has been a great thing thus far, but I can't remember the last time a Western country killed 20 million of its own people.

Huh, Putin doesn't control the media though, nor can he have his opposition "dealt with". (There's no need to anyways, they're all braindead.) There's no laws against independent newspapers or channels. If there was, anti-Russian papers such as The Moscow Times wouldn't be published. And where do you have those numbers from? Did you pull them out of your ass? When did Russia kill 20 million of it's own people?

Russia wants peace and friendship? Tell that to the people living in the Donbas.

Funnily enough those are the ones that wish to rejoin Russia and escape from these new western liberal democratic 'values' that the junta has come with.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 01:24:11 am
Russia wants peace and friendship? Tell that to the people living in the Donbas.

Thanks to Russia, there are people in Donbas region.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on February 17, 2018, 01:24:38 am
Russia wants peace and friendship? Tell that to the people living in the Donbas region.
I hear they got very friendly with the people of Crimea, when they invaded.
And to the people of Georgia, when they invaded.
And to the people of Chechnya, when they invaded.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 17, 2018, 01:26:00 am
Russia wants peace and friendship? Tell that to the people living in the Donbas.

Thanks to Russia, there are people in Donbas region.

Still buying into the 'RUSSIAN-SPEAKING GENOCIDEEEEEE!!1'?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on February 17, 2018, 01:26:37 am
Spoiler
The BBC is constantly having arguments with the British government regardless of which party is in power. The relationship between them really isn't that cosy. When was the last time RT said anything even mildly embarrassing or critical of Putin?

For foreign events I think the BBC is as good as it gets. Has its natural biases when covering domestic UK politics and is as bad as CNN in that respect, but RT was clearly conceived as a propaganda outfit.

So now it's criteria that a news source HAS to criticize the country it's from in order to be perceived as unbiased? What if there aren't reasons for them to criticize Putin? Have you ever thought about that? Because he's never really done anything against the Russian interest. Oh and trust me, those who wish to criticize Putin do so freely. I know a lot of Russians were unhappy with the government's handling of the olympic scandal, and nobody's been killing or arresting them yet.


An assassination of Putin would be ideal for Ukraine and the west, as at the moment there's nobody as strong as Putin to lead the Russian government.
Yes, we wouldn't want any of those weak, capitalist, democrats running Russia would me?
Der Führer Vladmir keep Russia stronk backbone of cripple world.

Believe it or not, Russians actually elect him and he enjoys an approval rating western leaders only can dream of.
That's mainly because Western leaders don't control their media and can't have their opposition "dealt with". Not saying democracy in Russia has been a great thing thus far, but I can't remember the last time a Western country killed 20 million of its own people.

Huh, Putin doesn't control the media though, nor can he have his opposition "dealt with". (There's no need to anyways, they're all braindead.) There's no laws against independent newspapers or channels. If there was, anti-Russian papers such as The Moscow Times wouldn't be published. And where do you have those numbers from? Did you pull them out of your ass? When did Russia kill 20 million of it's own people?

Russia wants peace and friendship? Tell that to the people living in the Donbas.

Funnily enough those are the ones that wish to rejoin Russia and escape from these new western liberal democratic 'values' that the junta has come with.
[close]
So do they just not educate you about Stalin in Russia? As far as your concerned hes "Glorious leader who we must strive to be like"
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 01:26:58 am
Russia wants peace and friendship? Tell that to the people living in the Donbas region.
I hear they got very friendly with the people of Crimea, when they invaded.
And to the people of Georgia, when they invaded.
And to the people of Chechnya, when they invaded.

Ayy lmao, good memes my friend. The memes are coming in at a high rate this evening.

Crimea wasn't invaded muh man, there was a democratic referendum. Something that wasn't present in Kosovo when your dearly beloved United States and NATO decided to completely illegaly invade a foreign country with no approval from the United Nations whatsoever. Then our friends in Kosovo proceeded to declare independence WITHOUT a referendum. You claim that to be valid, whereas when Crimeans decide to hold a referendum and vote for reunion with Russia, that's hurr durr Russian annexation.

Georgia wasn't invaded, Georgian troops attacked Russian peacekeeping troops in Ossetia which forced a Russian response really.

Checnya was never invaded either, they were terrorists that were dealt with accordingly.

Spoiler
The BBC is constantly having arguments with the British government regardless of which party is in power. The relationship between them really isn't that cosy. When was the last time RT said anything even mildly embarrassing or critical of Putin?

For foreign events I think the BBC is as good as it gets. Has its natural biases when covering domestic UK politics and is as bad as CNN in that respect, but RT was clearly conceived as a propaganda outfit.

So now it's criteria that a news source HAS to criticize the country it's from in order to be perceived as unbiased? What if there aren't reasons for them to criticize Putin? Have you ever thought about that? Because he's never really done anything against the Russian interest. Oh and trust me, those who wish to criticize Putin do so freely. I know a lot of Russians were unhappy with the government's handling of the olympic scandal, and nobody's been killing or arresting them yet.


An assassination of Putin would be ideal for Ukraine and the west, as at the moment there's nobody as strong as Putin to lead the Russian government.
Yes, we wouldn't want any of those weak, capitalist, democrats running Russia would me?
Der Führer Vladmir keep Russia stronk backbone of cripple world.

Believe it or not, Russians actually elect him and he enjoys an approval rating western leaders only can dream of.
That's mainly because Western leaders don't control their media and can't have their opposition "dealt with". Not saying democracy in Russia has been a great thing thus far, but I can't remember the last time a Western country killed 20 million of its own people.

Huh, Putin doesn't control the media though, nor can he have his opposition "dealt with". (There's no need to anyways, they're all braindead.) There's no laws against independent newspapers or channels. If there was, anti-Russian papers such as The Moscow Times wouldn't be published. And where do you have those numbers from? Did you pull them out of your ass? When did Russia kill 20 million of it's own people?

Russia wants peace and friendship? Tell that to the people living in the Donbas.

Funnily enough those are the ones that wish to rejoin Russia and escape from these new western liberal democratic 'values' that the junta has come with.
[close]
So do they just not educate you about Stalin in Russia? As far as your concerned hes "Glorious leader who we must strive to be like"

Hm, never said that actually. And I don't care much for Stalin personally, in fact I don't like him.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 01:27:08 am
The funny thing is Duuring is that, not long ago you were memeing about "what about America" and then Norwegian actually said it lmfao
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 01:27:34 am
I hear they got very friendly with the people of Crimea, when they invaded.
And to the people of Georgia, when they invaded.
And to the people of Chechnya, when they invaded.

If you don't want to read books about it, at least read wiki on those wars in Chechnya, South Osetia and Crimea.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on February 17, 2018, 01:40:57 am
RT is funded by the Russian government, do I trust the Russian government? No so do I trust RT? Hell no.

Vice versa. I'm certain you trust things like Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (which is funded by the American government and spreads the most hilarious propaganda I've ever seen), but even if you come to me with some other privately owned newspaper or whatever, I still won't trust them because no matter how "independent" they claim to be, there's always someone with the money behind them. *cough* Soros *cough*

Never heard of them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on February 17, 2018, 01:42:00 am
I hear they got very friendly with the people of Crimea, when they invaded.
And to the people of Georgia, when they invaded.
And to the people of Chechnya, when they invaded.

If you don't want to read books about it, at least read wiki on those wars in Chechnya, South Osetia and Crimea.
In the first fucking paragraph of the wiki it mentions how Russian Separatists where shelling Georgians before they sent in the troops.
The first Chechen war was just them trying to obtain independence, which is fair given how shit the communists had been to them.
Chechnya was then a de facto state, then a rouge militia invades part of Russian and so Putin decides to level the country, then they resorted to terrorism.
And that referendum you're mentioned about Crimea, took part during the Russia occupation lol, so it wasn't even used to justify, they just fucking did it. Its also a likely rigged vote, seeing less than 70% of the population is Russian yet 95% voted to join Russia.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 01:51:42 am
I hear they got very friendly with the people of Crimea, when they invaded.
And to the people of Georgia, when they invaded.
And to the people of Chechnya, when they invaded.

If you don't want to read books about it, at least read wiki on those wars in Chechnya, South Osetia and Crimea.
In the first fucking paragraph of the wiki it mentions how Russian Separatists where shelling Georgians before they sent in the troops.
The first Chechen war was just them trying to obtain independence, which is fair given how shit the communists had been to them.
Chechnya was then a de facto state, then a rouge militia invades part of Russian and so Putin decides to level the country, then they resorted to terrorism.
And that referendum you're mentioned about Crimea, took part during the Russia occupation lol, so it wasn't even used to justify, they just fucking did it. Its also a likely rigged vote, seeing less than 70% of the population is Russian yet 95% voted to join Russia.

Wikipedia is not a valid source of information.

"Russian occupation". The Russians came only to ensure that the Ukrainians wouldn't interfere with the referendum. You can go on for ages and say that it's a rigged vote, I don't care because I'll say that it wasn't (because it wasn't). It seems like you had no argument against Kosovo either, a state that was also occupied and had no referendum prior to it's declaration of independence. Apperantly that's totally fine, right?

Anyways, I've wasted too much of my time on this pointless discussion. It's been a fun few hours, but now it really is time for me to get the show on the road. Enjoy your Russophobia!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 01:56:37 am
In the first fucking paragraph of the wiki it mentions how Russian Separatists where shelling Georgians before they sent in the troops.
The first Chechen war was just them trying to obtain independence, which is fair given how shit the communists had been to them.
Chechnya was then a de facto state, then a rouge militia invades part of Russian and so Putin decides to level the country, then they resorted to terrorism.
And that referendum you're mentioned about Crimea, took part during the Russia occupation lol, so it wasn't even used to justify, they just fucking did it. Its also a likely rigged vote, seeing less than 70% of the population is Russian yet 95% voted to join Russia.

Not even going to bother quoting wiki as anyone can google for themselves and see that wiki definitely doesn't say that.

Chechen wars were definitely a lot more complicated than what you mentioned. Furthermore Chechens want to stay in RF hence how the wars ended (just read about Chechen current leader Kadyrov).

As for Crimea, it has been a part of Russia since 1783 until 1954 and it IS Russian in every possible way, culturally, geographically, demographically, whichever you prefer.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 02:10:13 am
lmfao the Russians came to ensure the Ukrainians wouldn't interfere? This might be the most bullshit I've ever read on this thread.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 02:13:26 am
the Russians came to ensure the Ukrainians wouldn't interfere? This might be the most eye-opening I've ever read on this thread.

You're welcome! ;)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 02:14:42 am
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F911%2F206%2Fde8.jpg&hash=52b67859b17a2753e7fd531ca9c1c033d7fc9600)
Spoiler
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 02:20:46 am
the Russians came to ensure the Ukrainians wouldn't interfere? This might be the most eye-opening I've ever read on this thread.

You're welcome! ;)
"We invaded a country to make sure they did the right thing"
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 02:25:12 am
the Russians came to ensure the Ukrainians wouldn't interfere? This might be the most eye-opening I've ever read on this thread.

You're welcome! ;)
"We invaded a country to make sure they did the right thing"
More like "We sent troops to a country to ensure that radicals wouldn't interfere and disrupt a referendum"

Goodnight!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 02:37:19 am
A referendum that happened after you sent the troops you mean? You invaded a country because you wanted it's territory. You have no right to enter a country without permission i.e invade
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on February 17, 2018, 03:23:40 am
A referendum that happened after you sent the troops you mean? You invaded a country because you wanted it's territory. You have no right to enter a country without permission i.e invade
Honestly by the logic given, the EU should have invaded Britain to ensure there was no "disruption" in the Brexit vote. I wonder if he really believes Russian troops would have left had the "referendum" turned out against Russia.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on February 17, 2018, 03:55:38 am
That was a fascinating discussion
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on February 17, 2018, 03:56:48 am
Yeah, we should have gotten some Russians in here years ago
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 17, 2018, 04:16:00 am
Lol, Britain is leaving the EU and the Dutch are going to pay for it.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWJ6L8lWkAE0W5U.jpg:large)

I look forward to Merkel, with Macron just behind her, walking over Amsterdam and making them pay up. It's quite clever how the Germans have managed to get other people to finance their empire.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 10:42:55 am
You invaded a country because you wanted it's territory. You have no right to enter a country without permission i.e invade

He didn't invade anything, he's from Norway not Russia. And as you can see his nickname is "Norwegian" not "Russian".

You have no right to enter a country without permission i.e invade

I'm glad you see it that way. So what are UK troops doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? Iraq and Afghanistan definitely didn't call UK or any NATO troops for help, yet they're there, "bringing democracy". A nation has a right to choose what kind of state they want to live in, what laws they want to put upon their society.

As previously said, Crimea was Russian territory since 1783 until 1954. People living there declare themselves Russian (yes 67% which is still a majority), 98% of the population voted to join Russian Federetion on the referendum. Now you're saying how only the Russians voted on it, did you count them personally or did BBC tell you what to think?

Honestly by the logic given, the EU should have invaded Britain to ensure there was no "disruption" in the Brexit vote. I wonder if he really believes Russian troops would have left had the "referendum" turned out against Russia.

Britain's vote for exiting an organisation such as the EU is a completely different thing, as you know EU is not a country. Russian troops didn't come to Crimea, they were already there, they've had a military naval base on Crimea since 1783 and yes even when Ukraine declared independence, Russian troops still kept a base there in agreement with Ukrainian government, until 2014.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 11:27:53 am
And the UK involvement in Iraq was wrong? Does that make Russia’s involvement in the Ukraine right? No. By your logic Britain has a right to take back India since they were in the empire less than 100 years ago. 98% is a suspiciously high result for any referendum, especially when the number of actual Russians in the territory is so low. You’re deluded trying to Justify Russian aggression against countries who want to govern themselves.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 17, 2018, 11:35:09 am
#BridgeToCrimea2035
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 11:42:22 am
Nobody's talking about logic here, we're talking about politics. You can keep twisting my words but you most certainly got my point even if you don't want to show it in your posts.

Comparing India to Crimea shows how much you actually know on both topics, which is only what is written on wikipedia (at best). Yes, UK's involvement in Iraq was wrong, as in Ireland (whole Ireland), Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Lybia etc. If a referendum passed with 98% of votes on one side that means that the population wants or agrees with something strongly. Would it make you feel better if it was 60% for joining RF and 40% against?

Crimea was never a Russian colony like India was England's, Russians are not there to exploit the population, they're on Crimea because Crimea is inhabited by Russians. Number of 67% is a majority and this data we're using is from 2014 (according to your precious wiki), so old news.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 11:51:19 am
Jesus Christ this is hilarious. You actually would go anywhere to justify Putin’s actions. You made the point that Crimea was a part of the Russian empire, so I showed why that was a bullshit line of argument. Just because you’re not there to exploit the population that doesn’t mean you didn’t take over. The referendum was declared invalid by the UN and the fact that Russian troops were there (and they weren’t just there because of the naval base so stop chatting shit) makes the results questionable anyhow. I’m not waiting for my daily dose of whataboutism
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 12:02:23 pm
Jesus Christ this is hilarious. You actually would go anywhere to justify Putin’s actions. You made the point that Crimea was a part of the Russian empire, so I showed why that was a bullshit line of argument. Just because you’re not there to exploit the population that doesn’t mean you didn’t take over. The referendum was declared invalid by the UN and the fact that Russian troops were there (and they weren’t just there because of the naval base so stop chatting shit) makes the results questionable anyhow. I’m not waiting for my daily dose of whataboutism

This is a discussion topic, if you're not mentally capable of hearing a different point of view then I suggest you stop frustrating yourself by posting/reading this topic. Putin is irrelevant, I'm not defending anyone.

If you're against something you might want to make sure to get to know more about it before you jump to conclusions your local media give you. So here's another suggestion, two lovely books to get you started: Neil Kent, Crimea: A History, great book by a knowledgeable Cambridge professor and Robert K. Massie, Cathrine the Great, an American historian (since you're close-minded and refuse to trust any source unless its written by a native english speaker). Even though I'm sure you'll never even google those books there's still hope that you'll read at least a few pages of any book about anything.

Have a nice day :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 12:05:22 pm
Ahahaha completely changed the subject without even replying to any of my points. Has a go at me for not facilitating your POV and then uses a bunch of ad hominems.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 12:14:46 pm
A referendum that happened after you sent the troops you mean? You invaded a country because you wanted it's territory. You have no right to enter a country without permission i.e invade

Neither did NATO when they invaded Yugoslavia, as well as tore away a core part of Serbia (Kosovo). Oh and, unlike NATO, Russians didn't kill a single soul in Crimea AND there was a referendum where the people got to decide if they wished to rejoin Russia or stay with Ukraine. This is something that was absent in Kosovo, yet in your mind somehow Kosovo becoming independent is more legitimate than Crimea re-joining Russia.  Russian troops that were on guard in Crimea were simply ensuring that no provocations would come from the Ukrainian extremists who would most certaintly try their best to disrupt the referendum. The Russian troops were simply ensuring safety for everyone who was voting.

Also, the vote is very much legitimate. I have spoken to many people who live in Crimea, and they are all very happy that they have rejoined the Russian Federation. I also know people who have travelled to Crimea, and everyone is very much enjoying the fact that they have once again rejoined the Russian Federation. Of course, you won't believe me because you've been brainwashed too much, but I would invite you to go down to Crimea and see for yourself.

I would suggest you watch this documentary (Crimea. The way back home) to get a good understanding of how Crimea rejoined Russia. It has English subtitles, so you'll manage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t42-71RpRgI

In regards to what you are saying to Gojkov, the results are not questionable at all. Crimea has a majority of Russians living on there, and it is and always has been Russian territory. The ONLY reason that Crimea was transferred to Ukraine back in 1954 was because Khrushchev was Ukrainian and he loved his homeland so much that he for some reason decided to transfer Crimea from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SFSR. If you would like to, I can get you in contact with a Crimean guy, and he can explain to you why he voted to join Russia and how he didn't feel threatened by the Russian troops present in Crimea at all. Oh and, there have also been Western reporters that have been on the streets of Crimea, talking to the local populace and most of them are happy and content with being part of Russia again.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gojkov on February 17, 2018, 12:18:17 pm
That was made by a Russian TV channel and therefore cannot be trusted. Do you really think he's going to spend 2 hours and 25 minutes just to hear a different point of view?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 12:24:09 pm
Whataboutism again Norwegian. The Russian troops had no legal right to be in the Crimea (except for the naval base). You’ve spoken to many people is such a vague term without much evidence to back it up or a good reflector of overall opinion. The vote was declared invalid by the UN, but of course Russia doesn’t care about that. The media is pretty tightly controlled in Russia so I’d be surprised to find a documentary that was against the takeover tbh.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on February 17, 2018, 12:31:01 pm
Whataboutism again Norwegian. The Russian troops had no legal right to be in the Crimea (except for the naval base). You’ve spoken to many people is such a vague term without much evidence to back it up or a good reflector of overall opinion. The vote was declared invalid by the UN, but of course Russia doesn’t care about that. The media is pretty tightly controlled in Russia so I’d be surprised to find a documentary that was against the takeover tbh.

Quite frankly, I don't care about the UN declaring the vote invalid because I know how the people in Crimea voted and that's all that matters. The countries that recognized the vote as invalid all had their own interests in mind. I told you, go see for yourself and talk to the local populace in Crimea, or find reports from western journalists that have been down there and have spoken to the local populace. Why on earth would anyone make a documentary against the reunification? Media is not tightly controlled at all, and people are free to do as they please. I know many people in Russia who are opposed to Putin, people who support Navalny etc. and nothing bad has happened to them. They're all living freely, nobody's harrassing them or oppressing them. They're openly sharing their views and there's no threat to them. And before you come to me with "hurr durr Russian police shut down their rallies", yes they did, because they were unsanctioned. They are blocking roads etc. causing trouble in the city, which of course would cause the police to have them be moved so that traffic could resume as per usual. If they actually would apply to hold their rallies and get a designated area for the rallies (which they have done in the past and it has happened with no problem) the police wouldn't touch them.

You need to take away this bullshit Western "hurr durr Russia is so bad no freedom" that you have and keep in mind that Russia is no longer the Soviet Union and is now a free democracy.

I've never heard of "whataboutism" before, but from a quick google search it seems like it's a simple term for you to try and discredit the facts me and Gojkov are presenting, when showing YOUR hypocrisy. The facts about Kosovo remain facts.

Have a good day. I'm not interested in discussing this any further because you're so blinded by the anti-Russian propaganda, so I don't think I'll be returning to this topic.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 12:41:55 pm
If you googled whataboutism you would know that it’s a specific tactic to deflect from an indefensible subject by changing the topic. Surprisingly it was often used by the Soviets. Funny that isn’t it.

I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree. Because if the fact that most of the world’s nations disagree with you isn’t enough then I doubt anything will be.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 17, 2018, 01:33:45 pm
Quote
I know many people in Russia who are opposed to Putin, people who support Navalny etc. and nothing bad has happened to them. They're all living freely, nobody's harrassing them or oppressing them

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/vladimir-putin-alexei-navalny-russia-election-1.4494643

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/15/russia-blocks-alexei-navalnys-website-investigation-oligarch/

https://meduza.io/en/news/2017/10/02/navalny-and-his-campaign-manager-are-locked-up-for-20-days-as-supporters-call-for-nationwide-protests-on-saturday-putin-s-birthday

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-kazan-elvira-dmitriyeva-navalny-campaign-head/28733610.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/world/europe/aleksei-navalny-foundation-russia.html

https://www.ft.com/content/512316f0-2666-11e7-8691-d5f7e0cd0a16

https://en.crimerussia.com/gromkie-dela/head-of-navalny-s-campaign-headquarters-arrested-for-10-days/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5395245/Russian-opposition-leaders-website-blocked.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/06/russia-bars-alexei-navalny-2018-presidential-bid-170624045154337.html

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-navalny-campaign-activist-attacked-pipe-moscow/28738107.html

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2017/07/05/the-new-nationwide-assault-on-alexey-navalny-s-presidential-campaign

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/world/europe/russia-aleksei-navalny-opposition.html?_r=0

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-03-28/inside-alexei-navalny-s-long-shot-bid-to-beat-putin

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/attackers-beat-navalny-campaigns-landlord-with-bats-in-siberia-58125?source=Snapzu

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russian-opposition-activists-blinded-acid-attacks-vladimir-putin-moscow-kremlin-alexei-navalny-a7712056.html

WESTERN PROPAGANDA
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on February 17, 2018, 07:16:11 pm
Yea I don’t think Russia’s very politically free lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: AeroNinja on February 17, 2018, 07:18:17 pm
The General Russian Politics Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 17, 2018, 07:23:36 pm
New poll because why not?

New new poll because I just discovered UKIP kicked out their leader again.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on February 17, 2018, 08:24:01 pm

Quite frankly, I don't care about the UN declaring the vote invalid because I know how the people in Crimea voted and that's all that matters.

 Media is not tightly controlled at all, and people are free to do as they please. I know many people in Russia who are opposed to Putin, people who support Navalny etc. and nothing bad has happened to them. They're all living freely, nobody's harrassing them or oppressing them.

Russia is no longer the Soviet Union and is now a free democracy.



you're so blinded by the anti-Russian propaganda,


you're so blinded by propaganda,


so blinded by propaganda,

Look in a mirror
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 17, 2018, 08:27:15 pm
It's really quite ironic isn't it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on February 17, 2018, 09:04:43 pm
I'm not going to claim that the west is moral, H Bush invade Iraq to secure oil and W Bush invaded to seem powerful in the wake of low popularity. The western countries invaded the Balkans (Half because they where committing genocide) and half to ensure they didn't slip back into Russia's grasp. JFK invaded the bay of pigs and LBJ sent troops to Vietnam to seem strong against communism.

I don't see why you feel like for some reason, an ex-KGB agent is doing everything for his "beloved Russia" rather than his personal gain. Some how Putin's salary is 1/8 the pay of my Prime Minister, yet Putin is one of the richest men in his country, funny that. He sent unmarked troops into Ukraine, not because they where coming close to slipping into NATO's sphere but ofc to protect a small Russian minority and to "protect the referendum in Crimea". He leveled Chechnya not because he wanted to seem strong, but because that little land locked state with naught more than militias where a major threat to Russia. And he invaded Georgia, not because they hurt his illegitimate satellite state, but because they attacked "U.N peacekeepers". Mikhail Khordokovsky just coincidentally breaks the law after he loses Putin's favour.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on February 17, 2018, 09:46:44 pm
I'm not going to claim that the west is moral

The thing is you dont have to.

If anyone believes election meddling doesnt exist and isnt reciprocal (for decades now), I have a bridge to sell you in scenic Iqaluit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 17, 2018, 09:58:24 pm
Everybody knows the evil west wants nothing more then to weaken a country with a GDP per capita comparable to Greece. Putin just wants to make the economy strong so that all Russians can benefit from it!

Quote from: From Soviets to Oligarchs: Inequality and Property in Russia, 1905-2016
According to our benchmark estimates, top income shares are now similar to (or higher than) the levels observed in the United States. We also find that inequality has increased substantially more in Russia than in China and other ex-communist countries in Eastern Europe. We relate this finding to the specific transition strategy followed in Russia. According to our benchmark estimates, the wealth held offshore by rich Russians is about three times larger than official net foreign reserves, and is comparable in magnitude to total household financial assets held in Russia.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on February 18, 2018, 08:37:39 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5402829/Homeless-man-dead-Westminster-child-abuser.html

Too funny not to share. (For non-Brits: this homeless guy died right outside parliament and was used as a cause célèbre against Tory austerity by Labour, including Corbyn himself.)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MrTiki on February 19, 2018, 05:01:57 pm
I'm not going to claim that the west is moral

The thing is you dont have to.

If anyone believes election meddling doesnt exist and isnt reciprocal (for decades now), I have a bridge to sell you in scenic Iqaluit
But it's like spying right? Everyone does it but the point is to not get caught. It's perfectly within a country's right to object to it happening, call them out on it and prosecute those offending, as it breaks the law. I'm pissed off enough at companies meddling in politics, let alone other countries.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on February 20, 2018, 02:39:45 am
Damn, i missed such a cool discussion about Crimea. Anyways, Russie stole Crimea from us in unlawful way, doesnt matter if it's historical their land. It belongs to Ukraine!

Btw, talking 'bout the poll for reunion with Russia in Crimea - i remember how the amount of voters reached higher than 110% Such enthusiasm, much legitimacy, Maths is ours.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on February 20, 2018, 07:21:59 am
I'm not going to claim that the west is moral

The thing is you dont have to.

If anyone believes election meddling doesnt exist and isnt reciprocal (for decades now), I have a bridge to sell you in scenic Iqaluit
But it's like spying right? Everyone does it but the point is to not get caught. It's perfectly within a country's right to object to it happening, call them out on it and prosecute those offending, as it breaks the law. I'm pissed off enough at companies meddling in politics, let alone other countries.

Absolutely
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on February 21, 2018, 03:04:53 am
Slava Ukraini
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 21, 2018, 09:37:11 pm
Героям слава
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on February 21, 2018, 10:01:33 pm
Героям слава
mans been hacked
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: joer5835 on February 21, 2018, 11:15:28 pm
Сталін був хорошим хлопцем
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 22, 2018, 10:24:12 pm
Героям слава
mans been hacked

man is trying to be learn Russian
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on February 22, 2018, 11:58:37 pm
Героям слава
mans been hacked

man is trying to be learn Russian
When they eventually invade?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 23, 2018, 12:04:40 am
Героям слава
mans been hacked

man is trying to be learn Russian
When they eventually invade?
They’re not invading they’re preventing radicals from destroying a democratic vote
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 23, 2018, 03:42:06 pm
Germany doing well for themselves. A 36 billion euro surplus. Makes you wonder what’s actually good about living in the UK anymore
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 23, 2018, 05:19:24 pm
Germany doing well for themselves. A 36 billion euro surplus. Makes you wonder what’s actually good about living in the UK anymore

*Western Germany, in the former East they're still pretty poor. Most Western German states have a GDP per capita double that of the East. Also Germany as a whole is about to hit a demographic time-bomb as they don't want to have babies but still expect to have extensive welfare in retirement...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 23, 2018, 05:30:27 pm
Germany doing well for themselves. A 36 billion euro surplus. Makes you wonder what’s actually good about living in the UK anymore

*Western Germany, in the former East they're still pretty poor. Most Western German states have a GDP per capita double that of the East. Also Germany as a whole is about to hit a demographic time-bomb as they don't want to have babies but still expect to have extensive welfare in retirement...
Like the North and South of England then
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 23, 2018, 07:07:37 pm
Germany doing well for themselves. A 36 billion euro surplus. Makes you wonder what’s actually good about living in the UK anymore

*Western Germany, in the former East they're still pretty poor. Most Western German states have a GDP per capita double that of the East. Also Germany as a whole is about to hit a demographic time-bomb as they don't want to have babies but still expect to have extensive welfare in retirement...
Like the North and South of England then

Yep, it's basically the UK North/South divide on steroids.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on February 26, 2018, 01:31:57 am
Germany doing well for themselves. A 36 billion euro surplus. Makes you wonder what’s actually good about living in the UK anymore

*Western Germany, in the former East they're still pretty poor. Most Western German states have a GDP per capita double that of the East. Also Germany as a whole is about to hit a demographic time-bomb as they don't want to have babies but still expect to have extensive welfare in retirement...
Like the North and South of England then

Yep, it's basically the UK North/South divide on steroids.
Its getting better though...atleast they have great roads in the east!

Germany doing well for themselves. A 36 billion euro surplus. Makes you wonder what’s actually good about living in the UK anymore
This in itself actually makes me and a lot of other Germans pretty angry, considering how far our social state has fallen
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on February 26, 2018, 01:35:02 am
Germany doing well for themselves. A 36 billion euro surplus. Makes you wonder what’s actually good about living in the UK anymore

*Western Germany, in the former East they're still pretty poor. Most Western German states have a GDP per capita double that of the East. Also Germany as a whole is about to hit a demographic time-bomb as they don't want to have babies but still expect to have extensive welfare in retirement...
Like the North and South of England then

Yep, it's basically the UK North/South divide on steroids.
Its getting better though...atleast they have great roads in the east!

Germany doing well for themselves. A 36 billion euro surplus. Makes you wonder what’s actually good about living in the UK anymore
This in itself actually makes me and a lot of other Germans pretty angry, considering how far our social state has fallen
but hey lets support all of these refugees first!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on February 26, 2018, 01:53:40 am
I meant the economy as a whole rather than the living situations of every single person in the country.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on February 26, 2018, 02:21:01 am
Germany doing well for themselves. A 36 billion euro surplus. Makes you wonder what’s actually good about living in the UK anymore
This in itself actually makes me and a lot of other Germans pretty angry, considering how far our social state has fallen

It's about to fall a lot further bud. You can't have one of the worst fertility rates in Europe but still expect to have one of the most generous welfare systems.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on February 26, 2018, 09:47:08 am
Yeah I know. Thats why I wanna work for the state
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on February 28, 2018, 09:50:03 pm
Is there actually a 'final' date on which the deal must have been reached so that all parliaments can ratify whatever is reached? I'm hearing autumn of this year, but nothing more specific.

Also, new poll, of course about Brexit, because I'm boring.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on February 28, 2018, 10:37:04 pm
Where's the "EU collapses before Brexit can take place" option?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: BabyJesus on February 28, 2018, 10:39:09 pm
Where's the "EU collapses before Brexit can take place" option?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Archduke Sven on March 01, 2018, 10:46:02 am
can someone remind me why they're doing this again?

Is it more economical or just not wanting to deal with the EU's bs?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 01, 2018, 11:07:22 am
can someone remind me why they're doing this again?

Is it more economical or just not wanting to deal with the EU's bs?
From what I’ve heard from leave voters it’s a bit of both
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on March 01, 2018, 11:50:06 am
Research by political scientists suggest that there are several factors, of which immigration is the most imporant one.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Vincenzo on March 01, 2018, 11:51:23 am
But they were not in schengen..?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on March 01, 2018, 11:55:04 am
Schengen is just no border control. Any EU citizen can still enter, live and work there. And it's sorta doubtful that will change.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 01, 2018, 01:10:49 pm
can someone remind me why they're doing this again?

Is it more economical or just not wanting to deal with the EU's bs?

For me it's mainly the bs-the whole system is pretty rotten yet essentially unreformable, of which this particular story is the latest example:
https://www.politico.eu/article/transparency-watchdog-in-european-parliament-questions-martin-selmayr-appointment/

In the short term I expect Britain will be slightly worse off economically but I always saw Brexit as a long-term proposition. The way the EU is run means it cannot sustainably deliver wealth to its citizens over the long-term.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on March 01, 2018, 01:38:17 pm
As rotten and unreformable as the UK, or worst?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 01, 2018, 02:08:23 pm
As rotten and unreformable as the UK, or worst?

In what way is the UK rotten and unreformable? 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 01, 2018, 03:23:16 pm
As rotten and unreformable as the UK, or worst?

In what way is the UK rotten and unreformable?
Let’s be honest we do live in a right shithole tbf
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 01, 2018, 04:21:03 pm
As rotten and unreformable as the UK, or worst?

In what way is the UK rotten and unreformable?
Let’s be honest we do live in a right shithole tbf

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/aa/0c/41/aa0c41de60d67bdd4c108c3119a13024.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 01, 2018, 04:22:23 pm
Relax It was a joke. Poor meme
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 01, 2018, 05:51:26 pm
For me it's mainly [...]

I honestly thought you were Canadian
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 01, 2018, 06:06:39 pm
For me it's mainly [...]

I honestly thought you were Canadian
That’s Theodin
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 01, 2018, 06:19:05 pm
That’s Theodin

Meh, close enough.

Let’s be honest we do live in a right shithole tbf

And now the citizens of EU member states will know how it feels to be sold out by their governments. Finally, UK northerners will have their revenge!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 01, 2018, 09:03:31 pm
For me it's mainly [...]

I honestly thought you were Canadian

I have dual citizenship, but these days I like to that quiet as I have Indian co-workers and it's too embarrassing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 01, 2018, 11:42:45 pm
For me it's mainly [...]

I honestly thought you were Canadian
That’s Theodin
hello
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MrTiki on March 02, 2018, 01:25:07 am
If I'm not mistaken Steven also lives in Australia and so doesn't have to actually deal with the bullshit that the rest of us poor sods do.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 02, 2018, 01:40:08 am
If I'm not mistaken Steven also lives in Australia and so doesn't have to actually deal with the bullshit that the rest of us poor sods do.

Plenty of BS in 'stralia lol, and my wife is keeping me here against my will
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on March 02, 2018, 01:42:34 am
Steven, what happens if NATO goes to war? Will you bet drafted into all 3 armies?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 02, 2018, 01:51:23 am
Steven, what happens if NATO goes to war? Will you bet drafted into all 3 armies?
It’s acruslly four since he’s also a KGB agent
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 02, 2018, 11:32:20 am
Plenty of BS in 'stralia lol, and my wife is keeping me here against my will

Did you celebrate Australia Day?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 02, 2018, 11:55:24 am
Steven, what happens if NATO goes to war? Will you bet drafted into all 3 armies?

Well Australia isn't in NATO, Justin doesn't believe in war and if Jeremy Corbyn becomes PM then the UK will probably leave NATO and bring back the Warsaw Pact. My chances of being drafted are quite low :)

Did you celebrate Australia Day?

Many shrimps were put on the barbie that day
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 02, 2018, 03:34:33 pm
It’s okay Steven you can join the EU army
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 02, 2018, 03:48:09 pm
Tbh if Germany gets its EU army then that's gonna just embolden Putin to think he can march as far as Portugal.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43134896
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on March 02, 2018, 08:17:25 pm
It must really suck when the problem isn't money but manpower. FeelsGermanyMan
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on March 02, 2018, 08:18:25 pm
It must really suck when the problem isn't money but manpower. FeelsGermanyMan
cutting the mandatory service fucked us properly
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on March 02, 2018, 08:59:04 pm
It must really suck when the problem isn't money but manpower. FeelsGermanyMan
instituting the mandatory service fucked poland and france properly
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 02, 2018, 09:09:55 pm
We should all just bow down to Russia so they can stop radicals from interfering in our referendums. Then there would be no issues.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on March 02, 2018, 09:18:23 pm
We should all just bow down to Russia so they can stop radicals from interfering in our referendums. Then there would be no issues.
Also allow more Russians into our countries so they can invade to protect the minorities.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 02, 2018, 11:20:43 pm
We should all just bow down to Russia so they can stop radicals from interfering in our referendums. Then there would be no issues.
Also allow more Russians into our countries so they can invade to protect the minorities.
Russian immigrants (anecdotally) seem to be of decent quality. Tbh the same is true of the entire Iron Curtain
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 02, 2018, 11:52:42 pm
We should all just bow down to Russia so they can stop radicals from interfering in our referendums. Then there would be no issues.
Also allow more Russians into our countries so they can invade to protect the minorities.
Russian immigrants (anecdotally) seem to be of decent quality. Tbh the same is true of the entire Iron Curtain

Eh, I'd say Romania is the exception to the rule.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 03, 2018, 12:54:27 am
We should all just bow down to Russia so they can stop radicals from interfering in our referendums. Then there would be no issues.
Also allow more Russians into our countries so they can invade to protect the minorities.
Russian immigrants (anecdotally) seem to be of decent quality. Tbh the same is true of the entire Iron Curtain

Eh, I'd say Romania is the exception to the rule.
mmhm?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on March 03, 2018, 01:33:50 am
Romanians and Sinti are not the same. Romanians are great. Sinti and Roma can go away
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: fruitocino on March 04, 2018, 08:02:08 pm
Romanians and Sinti are not the same. Romanians are great. Sinti and Roma can go away
reminds me of this gem  ;D
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.npd-hessen.de%2Finhalte%2Fimage%2FNPD_Wahlplakat_Geld_fuer_die_Oma_statt_fuer_Sinti_und_Roma.jpg&hash=ee88e416a47fba5844c58e585792542923163a93)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on March 04, 2018, 08:57:42 pm
Romanians and Sinti are not the same. Romanians are great. Sinti and Roma can go away
reminds of this gem  ;D
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.npd-hessen.de%2Finhalte%2Fimage%2FNPD_Wahlplakat_Geld_fuer_die_Oma_statt_fuer_Sinti_und_Roma.jpg&hash=ee88e416a47fba5844c58e585792542923163a93)
[close]
Are you trying to tell me that im a Nazi? lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: fruitocino on March 04, 2018, 10:07:14 pm
hahah no, I just wanted to bring up that meme of a poster while we were on that topic
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Vincenzo on March 05, 2018, 11:19:01 am
So what do you guys think that will happen with the Ireland to Northern Ireland border?

The EU is really making it a requirement for any agreement that that border stays open...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 05, 2018, 02:10:20 pm
They’ll have to compromise eventually. It’s all just about who blinks first.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Von Bergen on March 05, 2018, 03:37:57 pm
So what do you guys think that will happen with the Ireland to Northern Ireland border?

The EU is really making it a requirement for any agreement that that border stays open...
I think they will kinda do some kind like "super visa" agreement, where companys can trade theire goods without border checks, but soft checks for people
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Vincenzo on March 05, 2018, 03:40:30 pm
But as I understood it was all about the people on that border in the first place.. free open travel without any checkpoints..

It's funny that the EU cares so much about this thing which the UK should care much more about *Cough* Troubles of Northern Ireland
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 05, 2018, 06:43:20 pm
CTA will remain (free movement between UK and RoI) so long as Dublin keeps out of Schengen. There will be a physical border, as to how hard it will be is dependent on how much regulatory divergence there is between the UK and EU. At the very least, by becoming a third country, there will have to be customs control facilities on the border (SPS checks and the like).

In short, there's going to be a border and the EU needs to accept that so we everyone move on. The idea the EU actually cares the Troubles is a joke, it's just a convenient excuse to get an advantage. They want to use NI as leverage to keep the UK within the EU regulatory sphere.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MrTiki on March 05, 2018, 08:29:03 pm
Wait I don't get what you mean Steven, it's not the EU that cares where the border is, it's the UK that does. Either the border has to go between NI and ROI in which case Good Friday agreement looks a little shaky or the border goes between NI and GB which looks terrible for the UK. In reality obviously it's going between NI and ROI, so it's up to May to try to frame that as a "victory" somehow.

It was obviously going to be an issue when the idea of Brexit was first proposed, and the fact it was never addressed until this late is just further proof that the UK doesn't give a shit about NI and they're better off forming a united Ireland.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 05, 2018, 08:55:43 pm
Actually both sides care a great deal as the issue is a case study in what Brexit will look like. May is incompetent but on this I think she's played it as best she can. What the UK/IRE border looks like depends fundamentally on the trading arrangements UK/EU come to post-Brexit. However before trade talks could begin the EU demanded assurances on the border which naturally May could not give. It's a bit like demanding an airline make a binding agreement to fly you without first specifying where it is you want to go.

The point is, it literally can't be addressed before trade talks begin. The only reason the EU sequenced the talks in such a weird way is because they wanted to bind May's hands and win concessions. If she commits to an open border then Brussels will play hardball in setting out all kinds of conditions for her to meet.

I mean, come on, the EU really doesn't give a shit about British or Irish people any more than they cared about the Greeks. This is just playing politics to achieve a desired outcome.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MrTiki on March 05, 2018, 10:18:30 pm
I mean, come on, the EU really doesn't give a shit about British or Irish people any more than they cared about the Greeks. This is just playing politics to achieve a desired outcome.
Well obviously; they won't be in the EU so why should they care (assuming you mean NI)? They have their own interests to look after. I don't know why anyone would be surprised about this, I mean it was clear from before the vote that the EU was going to force concessions. The UK has always had the poorer footing with regards to the deal, precisely because they hadn't bothered thinking about any of the details of it before going to a referendum. It was a blind leap forward with no structure and we're reaping the consequences. Who'dve thunk?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 05, 2018, 11:34:37 pm
No, I mean Ireland and the UK. Of course they're going to force concessions but my point is it's naive to think their 'concern' over the border is caused by anything other than economic self-interest. Brussels does not really care about the Troubles anymore than it cared about Eastern Ukraine when pushing for the EU-Ukraine Association agreement.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Jakester on March 06, 2018, 03:08:10 am
Interested to see what people think about South Africa on this forum? Especially European's opinions but in general.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Vincenzo on March 06, 2018, 09:39:19 am
Economy crisis, big seperation between poor and rich, no social services, terrible goverments and corruption?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on March 06, 2018, 10:00:45 am
I heard Zuma was a great guy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Vincenzo on March 06, 2018, 10:50:48 am
Another question is what do you guys think the future will be with Brexit, for the 2+milion Polish and other EU citizens living in the UK, and other way around the 1.5+ milion UK citizens living in the EU?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 06, 2018, 03:04:16 pm
They’ll make a deal so people can stay. Doubt the government will want to deal with that shitshow of bringing back all the overseas Brits
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Von Bergen on March 06, 2018, 03:38:08 pm
Also, try like getting rid of 2 Million People in your country that have been there for decades. Even if all would just go without any troubles they leave behind a shit tone of Jobs etc. undone in the future. Sure Uk may can handle that, but i think it would be an ammount of work they just want to prevent.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 06, 2018, 04:14:30 pm
Another question is what do you guys think the future will be with Brexit, for the 2+milion Polish and other EU citizens living in the UK, and other way around the 1.5+ milion UK citizens living in the EU?

Dunno, but May needs to extract promises of safety particularly from the Germans. Don't want our people ending up in camps again.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 06, 2018, 04:49:00 pm
Yeah it just makes more sense to make a deal where everybody stays put. Besides I wonder how many of the British immigrants are in retirement age in Spain anyway.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 06, 2018, 11:56:58 pm
Another pressing question: now that the UK is leaving the European Union, will the British curriculum specification start teaching that the equation of a straight line is y = mx + b instead of the great British equation y = mx + c ?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 06, 2018, 11:59:17 pm
Another pressing question: now that the UK is leaving the European Union, will the British curriculum specification start teaching that the equation of a straight line is y = mx + b instead of the great British equation y = mx + c ?
This needs to be taken to the UN security council immediately
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 07, 2018, 12:57:53 pm
Interested to see what people think about South Africa on this forum? Especially European's opinions but in general.

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/031ecc3e772da6bf1a874732d2ed4e45.png)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 07, 2018, 02:14:48 pm
I mean look at Weimar Germany. It works okay!?!?!?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on March 07, 2018, 09:10:08 pm
Interested to see what people think about South Africa on this forum? Especially European's opinions but in general.
If you change whites to Jews and Africans to Germans you start to get some serious parallels, especially in the 'confiscating their land and wealth' to give to native Africans.

It's just disappointing to see.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on March 09, 2018, 07:36:01 am
Interested to see what people think about South Africa on this forum? Especially European's opinions but in general.
If you change whites to Jews and Africans to Germans you start to get some serious parallels, especially in the 'confiscating their land and wealth' to give to native Africans.

It's just disappointing to see.

Yeah but nazis were racist so this comparison doesnt work because its 2018, only white cis males can be racist.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 10, 2018, 06:08:18 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43352073

A very disappointing outcome  :(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 10, 2018, 07:42:04 pm
Why is that disappointing?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 10, 2018, 10:04:21 pm
Shkreli broke the law by concealing his funds' losses early on, yes, but those funds eventually turned profitable (with some of his investors even admitting on the witness stand of his trial that partnering with Shkreli was a great investment).

This sentence was made in the name of politics, not justice. Seven years for securities fraud that didn't even cost his investors any money in the long run? Seems legit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 10, 2018, 10:09:05 pm
Shkreli broke the law by concealing his funds' losses early on, yes, but those funds eventually turned profitable (with some of his investors even admitting on the witness stand of his trial that partnering with Shkreli was a great investment).

This sentence was made in the name of politics, not justice. Seven years for a crime that didn't even cost his investors any money in the long run? Seems legit.
Crime is never about the outcome. The ends don't justify the means, otherwise totalitarian systems would be legal. Western society takes issue in how the gains are gotten, not if they're gotten.

I like Shkreli, I think he's a genius who's got some mental issues and can be a force for good, but I don't think the sentence was totally unfair, especially since the prosecutors argued for the max. As long as he's sentenced into the type of prison he belongs to be in, I think that's fair enough. He'll be fine, and I bet you when he gets released for good behaviour he'll be better
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 10, 2018, 10:17:42 pm
You break the law you go to jail
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 10, 2018, 10:26:51 pm
As long as he's sentenced into the type of prison he belongs to be in, I think that's fair enough. He'll be fine, and I bet you when he gets released for good behaviour he'll be better

Here's hoping.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 10, 2018, 10:32:27 pm
He is a bit of a prick, hiked up the price of a life saving drug
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 10, 2018, 10:33:43 pm
He is a bit of a prick, hiked up the price of a life saving drug
Which is sadly not uncommon in the pharma industry, and unlike other companies he invested in R & D with that profit. moral memes are worthless
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 10, 2018, 10:45:47 pm
He is a bit of a prick, hiked up the price of a life saving drug
Which is sadly not uncommon in the pharma industry, and unlike other companies he invested in R & D with that profit. moral memes are worthless
He may have put the money into more research but that doesn’t help the people who needed that drug there and then
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MrTiki on March 10, 2018, 11:02:08 pm
It may just be me, but he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to reinvest that money in research, considering his fraud conviction. I'd imagine he was using it to line his pockets and invest in other companies. It's not like his company developed the drug in the first place, they just bought the rights to it then marked it up massively.
He's a prick.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 10, 2018, 11:48:29 pm
It may just be me, but he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to reinvest that money in research, considering his fraud conviction. I'd imagine he was using it to line his pockets and invest in other companies. It's not like his company developed the drug in the first place, they just bought the rights to it then marked it up massively.

Had Shkreli's sole motivation been profit, then buying the rights to daraprim would have been a moronic investment. At the time of its purchase, daraprim was an ineffective and harmful drug. Invented around 70 years ago, it inhibits the enzyme involved in causing the infection of toxoplasmosis but also inhibits a human enzyme which metabolites the vitamin B6 - quite a nasty side effect for people taking this drug daily.

Shkreli's company has since developed a new form of the drug which targets just the toxoplasma's enzyme, hence leading to no side effects. This was rather easy given modern computing and the ability to molecularly model the bug's enzyme, which wasn't possible at the time of the original drug's creation. So people who are particularly vulnerable to this bug, such as people with HIV, can take this newly developed drug in order to avoid getting toxoplasmosis in the first place, without the side effects of the original drug. I'm not sure if this new drug is in the hands of the infected at this moment in time.

So yeah, Shkreli and his company have invested both time and money into research and development projects. The evidence is out there, you just have to find it for yourself. (Lord knows the media articles you've most likely read won't share it.)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 11, 2018, 12:18:45 am
What is the name of this drug? I assume since you're using it to say it's okay that he hiked the price 5000% that it was available to every single person who took the pill immediately after the price was hiked?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 11, 2018, 12:34:55 am
The refined version of Daraprim wasn't officially named at the time I read about it. Once/if Turing Pharma's website returns, there should be more details there.

I assume since you're using it to say it's okay that he hiked the price 5000% that it was available to every single person who took the pill immediately after the price was hiked?

The original drug is available to those infected with toxoplasmosis through their insurance, and the infected who are uninsured (and meet the eligibility criteria) are provided the drug at no "out-of-pocket cost" through Daraprim’s patient assistance program. I feel it's worth mentioning that many people die even after being prescribed daraprim. It's not a good drug, simply put.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 11, 2018, 12:41:22 am
So is the drug in full commercial sale then?

And what are the eligibility requirements because I couldn't find the specifics
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 11, 2018, 12:52:13 am
So is the drug in full commercial sale then?

Not the new drug. Commercial insurance companies are paying the full price for Daraprim (according to Turing Pharma).

And what are the eligibility requirements because I couldn't find the specifics

Quote
Although eligibility differs from program to program, they all have three specific criteria in common.

Income: To qualify for any patient assistance program, your total household income must be less than 200% of the Federal Poverty Level.

Prescription Coverage: Prescription assistance programs require that you do not currently subscribe to private or public sources of prescription coverage.

Residence: You must be a United States resident or citizen to be eligible for any of these programs.

If you want to know the eligibility requirements for Daraprim's program, read them in detail here:
https://www.patientassistance.com/profile/glaxosmithkline-168/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 11, 2018, 12:57:51 am
The thing is. Going off those requirements. Let's say I'm a single man living by myself who earns $30,000 dollars per year. I also am uninsured. $750 dollars per tablet is not something I'm going to be able to pay. So what can I do?

And if insurance companies have to pay more for the drug, then surely that cost then falls back more onto the consumer.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 11, 2018, 01:13:13 am
The thing is. Going off those requirements. Let's say I'm a single man living by myself who earns $30,000 dollars per year. I also am uninsured. $750 dollars per tablet is not something I'm going to be able to pay. So what can I do?

And if insurance companies have to pay more for the drug, then surely that cost then falls back more onto the consumer.

That's a pretty unrealistic scenario for starters, given that anyone dying from toxoplasmosis certainly won't be able to work and will most likely become unemployed, thus falling within the eligibility requirements for receiving the drug for free.

Turing's own pricing program includes reductions of up to 50% of Daraprim's list price to hospitals (directly to physicians and their patients).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 11, 2018, 01:14:56 am
So how about if I was married and my wife also earned 30k? I became unemployed leaving us both to live on her income without insurance?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 11, 2018, 01:27:24 am
Then you would list your family size as "2" and apply for the GlaxoSmithKline Bridges to Access program which provides Daraprim, since a household income of $30k falls within the eligibility requirements of having an income less than or equal to 250% of the Federal Poverty Guideline for that family size.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 11, 2018, 01:33:52 am
And if she earned 40k?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 11, 2018, 02:12:23 am
You wanna do my taxes Gordo?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on March 11, 2018, 03:13:46 am
https://globalnews.ca/news/4058984/justin-trudeau-india-trip-ipsos-poll/

Also Doug Ford supposedly won the Ontario PC race looooooooooooool
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 11, 2018, 03:34:05 am
https://globalnews.ca/news/4058984/justin-trudeau-india-trip-ipsos-poll/

Also Doug Ford supposedly won the Ontario PC race looooooooooooool
Hopefully not. Who's ready for a fourth straight PC loss?? Doug Ford cannot win Ontario
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MrTiki on March 11, 2018, 12:38:30 pm
Daraprim is a drug which SHOULD be available generically in the US but isn't (because it's ancient). He artificially limited the availability of it as part of the deal buying it then price gouged. Not illegal, but he's a cunt for it.
It was developed by a company bought by GSK, then the rights sold to a different company before Turing bought it. In other countries it's available for under $1 per pill (compared to $750 per pill).

Where did you get all that about Turing having done extra development on it? It sounds like you copy pasted it straight from their website and believe all their marketing bollocks. "No side effects" is a flat out lie.
Having gone through their website (Vyera Pharmaceuticals) to their page on Daraprim (http://daraprimdirect.com), it states that the side effects still include neutropaenia, arrhythmias, teratogenicity etc and the BNF also lists them. You clearly have no idea what the fuck you're on about.
There is not a single drug on the face of the planet which does not have side effects (yes, even oxygen).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on March 11, 2018, 05:26:49 pm
https://globalnews.ca/news/4058984/justin-trudeau-india-trip-ipsos-poll/

Also Doug Ford supposedly won the Ontario PC race looooooooooooool
Hopefully not. Who's ready for a fourth straight PC loss?? Doug Ford cannot win Ontario

And i like thousands of others never received my PIN to vote. Party is a shitshow.

On the bright side the last polls still have the PC at an absurd 50% and even with Doug ford at leader maintained a huge margin (wynne vs ford, wynne vs elliott, etc.)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 11, 2018, 05:40:09 pm
https://globalnews.ca/news/4058984/justin-trudeau-india-trip-ipsos-poll/

Also Doug Ford supposedly won the Ontario PC race looooooooooooool
Hopefully not. Who's ready for a fourth straight PC loss?? Doug Ford cannot win Ontario

And i like thousands of others never received my PIN to vote. Party is a shitshow.

On the bright side the last polls still have the PC at an absurd 50% and even with Doug ford at leader maintained a huge margin (wynne vs ford, wynne vs elliott, etc.)
I’m calling a Wynne minority
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 11, 2018, 08:01:04 pm
https://globalnews.ca/news/4058984/justin-trudeau-india-trip-ipsos-poll/

Also Doug Ford supposedly won the Ontario PC race looooooooooooool
Hopefully not. Who's ready for a fourth straight PC loss?? Doug Ford cannot win Ontario

And i like thousands of others never received my PIN to vote. Party is a shitshow.

On the bright side the last polls still have the PC at an absurd 50% and even with Doug ford at leader maintained a huge margin (wynne vs ford, wynne vs elliott, etc.)
I’m calling a Wynne minority

Ontario is probably the most postmodern province of the world's most postmodern country. God help you if Wynne stays in power.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 11, 2018, 08:08:59 pm
https://globalnews.ca/news/4058984/justin-trudeau-india-trip-ipsos-poll/

Also Doug Ford supposedly won the Ontario PC race looooooooooooool
Hopefully not. Who's ready for a fourth straight PC loss?? Doug Ford cannot win Ontario

And i like thousands of others never received my PIN to vote. Party is a shitshow.

On the bright side the last polls still have the PC at an absurd 50% and even with Doug ford at leader maintained a huge margin (wynne vs ford, wynne vs elliott, etc.)
I’m calling a Wynne minority

Ontario is probably the most postmodern province of the world's most postmodern country. God help you if Wynne stays in power.
I just don’t see a world where Toronto suburbs vote for Rob Ford’s brother
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 11, 2018, 08:38:45 pm
Someone explain Ontario politics to me?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 11, 2018, 08:45:50 pm
Someone explain Ontario politics to me?
Liberals have been in for over a decade. Two Liberal premiers have had their times in office mired by extremely poor financial decisions, terrible political partisanship, they've had party members charged with corruption, they singlehandedly ruined both the energy and industrial sectors, and had prominent members of parliament call different parts of non-Toronto Ontario "a wasteland".

The conservatives previous leadership was running on a very centre-left platform, with the hope that Liberal voters would vote for him instead because he was all progressive but promised good financial choices (which was, imo, the only hope). A couple weeks ago a pair of sexual misconduct allegations brought him down in the space of three hours. He plans to sue the news source for failure to do due diligence, as the people changed the story in a crucial way. Last night they elected the populist Doug Ford, brother of now deceased former Toronto mayor Rob Ford, to lead them in the next election. My guess is his platform will be anti-establishment and anti-government, and will be centre-right. We'll see how that goes

Then there's the NDP who, for some reason, don't do anything, even though this is the perfect time for them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on March 11, 2018, 08:45:59 pm
Someone explain Ontario politics to me?
They have a garbage, liberal premier like the rest of the country.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 11, 2018, 09:14:40 pm
Here's the thing, there's no point getting rid of Wynne and replacing her with someone who's not much different. Conservatives need to be conservative. Doug Ford probably ain't the best messenger but if the message itself is good...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 11, 2018, 10:10:02 pm
Thanks for explaining
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 11, 2018, 10:57:33 pm
Here's the thing, there's no point getting rid of Wynne and replacing her with someone who's not much different. Conservatives need to be conservative. Doug Ford probably ain't the best messenger but if the message itself is good...
Tried that last time tho. My party sources expected Brown to abandon his Liberal agenda after election
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Von Bergen on March 14, 2018, 11:30:03 am
I might ask a question to another topic: Am i the only one who thinks that the Russians killed that Ex-Agent, the British know the Russians did it, the Russians know the British know they did it, the British know the Russians will never confess it and so this whole conflict is just nonsense. Becaus yeah they need to investigate this shit but why are they trying to enforce things that will never happen?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Skyfall on March 14, 2018, 11:33:07 am
Im going a bit off topic but I just wanted to give you some updates.. election was held here in Italy 10 days ago. Right wing coalition got 37%, 5-Stars-Movemnet got 32%, center-left party collapsed. Lowest tornout ever for Italy (about 73%).

In the last 2 years M-5s and Lega (which is the leader party in the right wing coalition) changed a bit their opinion about EU and euro. They used to be very euroscepit (they wanted a Italexit referendum), nowadays, especially for M-5s, leaving EU is not a priority anymore.
Despite the fact that both those parties are partially eurospectic and are extremely populist, its really difficoult that they will be able to form a government (yeah classic Italy), so we will either have a caretaker government or we'll go back to vote in some months (hopefully with a different electoral law).

Election result
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Italian_2018_elections_Chamber_of_Deputies_constituencies.svg/654px-Italian_2018_elections_Chamber_of_Deputies_constituencies.svg.png)
[close]


Ikr none gives a shit about Italy but yeah I think is quite important for the future of EU
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 14, 2018, 11:34:14 am
Because if Theresa May doesn’t condemn Russian for it then it makes her look weak
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Von Bergen on March 14, 2018, 11:40:08 am
Because if Theresa May doesn’t condemn Russian for it then it makes her look weak
Dont you think the Russians just ignoring her ultimatum makes her look weaker? Now she will have to put in sanctions that hurt the economy of all countrys connected to the topic
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Vincenzo on March 14, 2018, 11:57:27 am
Im going a bit off topic but I just wanted to give you some updates.. election was held here in Italy 10 days ago. Right wing coalition got 37%, 5-Stars-Movemnet got 32%, center-left party collapsed. Lowest tornout ever for Italy (about 73%).

In the last 2 years M-5s and Lega (which is the leader party in the right wing coalition) changed a bit their opinion about EU and euro. They used to be very euroscepit (they wanted a Italexit referendum), nowadays, especially for M-5s, leaving EU is not a priority anymore.
Despite the fact that both those parties are partially eurospectic and are extremely populist, its really difficoult that they will be able to form a government (yeah classic Italy), so we will either have a caretaker government or we'll go back to vote in some months (hopefully with a different electoral law).

Election result
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Italian_2018_elections_Chamber_of_Deputies_constituencies.svg/654px-Italian_2018_elections_Chamber_of_Deputies_constituencies.svg.png)
[close]


Ikr none gives a shit about Italy but yeah I think is quite important for the future of EU

But what is the next step?
Even after a reelection the country will probably color the same as this result.. the population is devided..

What new election law would you think work?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Skyfall on March 14, 2018, 12:47:39 pm
But what is the next step?
Even after a reelection the country will probably color the same as this result.. the population is devided..

What new election law would you think work?

Actually with our system nowadays you just need around 42-44% in order to form a government without other parties, so if the center-left party (Partito Democratic) keeps falling (it took over 40% 4 years ago) its actually possible that one of the other will be able to form a government next time. Also, there was a lot of abstension so I dont think the result would be the same.
If you ask me, I'd totally go for a two-round election system (like France). We just need stability, we've had 64 different governments in 72 years!

If you are interested in Italian electioral law just read wikipediea's article, its's something unique and hyper-complicated  :-\
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_electoral_law_of_2017
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 14, 2018, 04:15:34 pm
Because if Theresa May doesn’t condemn Russian for it then it makes her look weak
Dont you think the Russians just ignoring her ultimatum makes her look weaker? Now she will have to put in sanctions that hurt the economy of all countrys connected to the topic
There wasn’t any economic sanctions tho afaik
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 15, 2018, 09:59:42 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43405686

This is sure to send shivers down the spine of Vladimir Putin.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 15, 2018, 11:18:18 pm
'Russia said his comments demonstrated his "intellectual impotence"."
lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on March 15, 2018, 11:21:15 pm
'Russia said his comments demonstrated his "intellectual impotence"."
lol
He doesnt seem confident at all. As threatening as my pre school teachers
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Von Bergen on March 16, 2018, 10:08:50 pm
Politicans acting like Kids at it best :D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on March 17, 2018, 05:52:03 am
(https://scontent.fams1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29197328_2075776509115393_5205511362163245056_n.jpg?oh=095f310f5fbeb48c7223f9760a9565d2&oe=5B32EACE)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 17, 2018, 04:05:30 pm
For the foreseeable future European politics will be dominated by the question of integration, specifically of both the EU and Islam.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYYhhAMVwAAr70O.jpg:small)

Populism is clearly not a temporary phenomenon, and if European political elites continue to deny the problem then they will be swept away. I'm not saying whether that's a good or a bad thing, merely observing that it will happen.

Macron understands this: https://www.politico.eu/article/macron-islam-to-propose-reorganization-france/
Merkel? Not so much: https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-horst-seehofer-slaps-down-on-migration/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 17, 2018, 05:05:28 pm
To save me typing in the source, who did they ask in each country?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 17, 2018, 07:14:01 pm
It's in the chart. Do you agree/disagree/neither with the following statement: 'All further migration from mainly Muslim countries should be stopped'.

Should also note this isn't an outlier as similar polling on integration/refugees/etc has yielded the same results. Massive cultural divide.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 17, 2018, 07:18:01 pm
I said who did they ask not what. I.e how many people and where. It matters a lot
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 17, 2018, 09:30:42 pm
Oh, well would have been quicker for you to search yourself lol. My bad. Apparently they asked slightly over 10,000 people (c1000 per country) via online polling. Rough variance of +/-3% at 1000 respondents (supposing general homogeneity of population etc).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 23, 2018, 01:09:23 am
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43489457

Breaking news!!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 23, 2018, 01:43:21 am
Sometimes I think all these leaders just thrive on stating the obvious
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: BabyJesus on March 23, 2018, 09:21:59 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/21/europe/kosovo-parliament-tear-gas-intl/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/21/europe/kosovo-parliament-tear-gas-intl/index.html)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 24, 2018, 12:20:03 am
Canada's parliment has been voting for 24 hours now. Here's a background.
1. Trudeau's trip to India was a disaster for many reasons, but one thing he did was use a national security official to blame the government of India for there being a convicted attempted murderer at a dinner party the Trudeau's hosted.
2. The opposition parties called that bluff and proposed a motion to have the NSO brief parliamentarians on the issue. Since there's a minimal chance that's indeed what happened, the government defeated the motion.
3. Because of this, the Conservatives and NDP are forcing a vote on every single amendment on the 2018 budget - over 260 individual votes. Also, the way our parliament works is that budget motions are confidence motions, meaning if the budget fails, the government falls.

Major embarrassment for the Liberals, as if they would agree to let the NSO testify, the voting would stop - the budget would pass, but they're protecting Trudeau at significant political cost.

Filibuster, anyone? :D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 12:31:01 am
Lol conservatives and liberals, both sides of the same coin
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 24, 2018, 12:32:51 am
Lol conservatives and liberals, both sides of the same coin
Explain yourself
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 12:39:49 am
You all are going at each other while the man outside the box laughs
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 24, 2018, 12:40:52 am
You all are going at each other while the man outside the box laughs
Who’s the man outside the box and how are you so gloriously enlightened
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 12:41:34 am
Look where the money goes
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 24, 2018, 12:43:22 am
You’re just chatting bollocks
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 12:46:36 am
Here's a question: Which group of people have the most money?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 12:51:41 am
It's funny we hate these politicians yet we support the real culprits everyday
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 24, 2018, 01:11:29 am
Could you be more specific?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 24, 2018, 01:12:57 am
He's not going to be he's just spouting rubbish
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 01:25:12 am
I'm not spouting rubbish, think about what I said. WHO do we support everyday, through our everyday actions.

Tip: look in your wallet and your medicine cabinet
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 24, 2018, 01:33:05 am
Jesus christ
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 01:34:59 am
You lack critical thinking skills. No wonder all you see is the smoke and mirrors. But that's what the education system does to you.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 24, 2018, 01:37:24 am
You sound like a conspiracy theorist. If you want to make a point then make it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 24, 2018, 01:50:32 am
Canada's parliment has been voting for 24 hours now. Here's a background.
1. Trudeau's trip to India was a disaster for many reasons, but one thing he did was use a national security official to blame the government of India for there being a convicted attempted murderer at a dinner party the Trudeau's hosted.
2. The opposition parties called that bluff and proposed a motion to have the NSO brief parliamentarians on the issue. Since there's a minimal chance that's indeed what happened, the government defeated the motion.
3. Because of this, the Conservatives and NDP are forcing a vote on every single amendment on the 2018 budget - over 260 individual votes. Also, the way our parliament works is that budget motions are confidence motions, meaning if the budget fails, the government falls.

Major embarrassment for the Liberals, as if they would agree to let the NSO testify, the voting would stop - the budget would pass, but they're protecting Trudeau at significant political cost.

Filibuster, anyone? :D

They lasted 20 hours, just finished. That India trip is the gift that keeps on giving.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 24, 2018, 03:20:06 am
Canada's parliment has been voting for 24 hours now. Here's a background.
1. Trudeau's trip to India was a disaster for many reasons, but one thing he did was use a national security official to blame the government of India for there being a convicted attempted murderer at a dinner party the Trudeau's hosted.
2. The opposition parties called that bluff and proposed a motion to have the NSO brief parliamentarians on the issue. Since there's a minimal chance that's indeed what happened, the government defeated the motion.
3. Because of this, the Conservatives and NDP are forcing a vote on every single amendment on the 2018 budget - over 260 individual votes. Also, the way our parliament works is that budget motions are confidence motions, meaning if the budget fails, the government falls.

Major embarrassment for the Liberals, as if they would agree to let the NSO testify, the voting would stop - the budget would pass, but they're protecting Trudeau at significant political cost.

Filibuster, anyone? :D

They lasted 20 hours, just finished. That India trip is the gift that keeps on giving.
glorious
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on March 24, 2018, 03:25:39 am
Canada's parliment has been voting for 24 hours now. Here's a background.
1. Trudeau's trip to India was a disaster for many reasons, but one thing he did was use a national security official to blame the government of India for there being a convicted attempted murderer at a dinner party the Trudeau's hosted.
2. The opposition parties called that bluff and proposed a motion to have the NSO brief parliamentarians on the issue. Since there's a minimal chance that's indeed what happened, the government defeated the motion.
3. Because of this, the Conservatives and NDP are forcing a vote on every single amendment on the 2018 budget - over 260 individual votes. Also, the way our parliament works is that budget motions are confidence motions, meaning if the budget fails, the government falls.

Major embarrassment for the Liberals, as if they would agree to let the NSO testify, the voting would stop - the budget would pass, but they're protecting Trudeau at significant political cost.

Filibuster, anyone? :D

They lasted 20 hours, just finished. That India trip is the gift that keeps on giving.
glorious
Should have kept going honestly, I don't think the Tories realize how much they're going to have to demonize Trudeau in order to make Scheer seem more appealing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 04:13:40 am
Not a conspiracy theorist.

Big corporations, big pharma, and the bankers are who I am talking about
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on March 24, 2018, 04:20:54 am
((()))
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 04:36:35 am
Honestly all this political talk is pointless. Nothing will change ever, things are going to stay the same or get worse, probably worse. The people at the top are too rich and powerful nothing can be done at this point, they'll get whatever they want.

Do you think these politicians care about their countries? Lol hell no, there's just two groups.

The elite and the masses.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 24, 2018, 06:21:20 am
Someone’s been reading Marx
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Stroke0fd34th on March 24, 2018, 06:29:47 am
Someone’s been reading Marx

I only read the great anarcho-communist author Nipplestockings

Everyone else is an inferior intellectual and that's a fact.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 24, 2018, 02:24:55 pm
https://www.yahoo.com/news/french-hero-officer-swapped-himself-hostage-dies-053507302.html

Yet another good man dead thanks to our suicidal European governments. Who on Earth thought it was a good idea to allow mass immigration from Morocco of all places?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 24, 2018, 04:00:30 pm
Should have kept going honestly, I don't think the Tories realize how much they're going to have to demonize Trudeau in order to make Scheer seem more appealing.

What's wrong with Scheer? He seems really likeable to me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 24, 2018, 04:02:59 pm
He’s a tory
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 24, 2018, 05:10:32 pm
Someone’s been reading Marx

I only read the great anarcho-communist author Nipplestockings

Everyone else is an inferior intellectual and that's a fact.
Real shit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 05:51:21 pm
Here's some books you all need to read

War is a racket, 1984, fast food nation, and corrupted science.

Also look up, all wars are bankers war, Rick Simpson hemp oil, petro dollar/reserve currency, and opium in Afghanistan.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on March 24, 2018, 06:02:56 pm
I miss Nipplestockings.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 24, 2018, 06:04:05 pm
As Shakespeare said, "All the world's a stage, and we are merely players"
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 24, 2018, 06:15:16 pm
I miss Nipplestockings.

Same. I guess he didn't take getting sold out by Bernie too well!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 24, 2018, 06:17:05 pm
We get it you hate the system
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 06:34:46 pm
I'm just pointing out the real problem to your naive brains
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 24, 2018, 06:39:51 pm
I'm just pointing out the real problem to your naive brains
/r/iamverysmart
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 06:42:49 pm
Yes I am very 'smart' when it comes to critical thinking and logic
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 24, 2018, 06:43:58 pm
Yes I am very 'smart' when it comes to critical thinking and logic
You should check out that subreddit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 24, 2018, 06:53:23 pm
I'm just pointing out the real problem to your naive brains
/r/iamverysmart
I love this subreddit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 24, 2018, 06:55:19 pm
I'm just pointing out the real problem to your naive brains
/r/iamverysmart
I love this subreddit
It’s honestly one of the best things on reddit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 06:55:44 pm
Cute. You must be so sophisticated and intelligent from college. How silly of me to try and converse with you.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 24, 2018, 06:57:11 pm
Cute. You must be so sophisticated and intelligent from college. How silly of me to try and converse with you.
You’re digging the hole still mate
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on March 24, 2018, 07:09:05 pm
I miss Nipplestockings.

I 'member nipplestockings before he turned from edgy trol3 to edgy commie/berniebro who wanted the "fascists/nazis/racists" banned/muted

Quote from: Nipplestockings
If people legitimately think that jokingly calling an admin a [redacted -by me, still there in link - slur for gay people] is homophobia, and that it warrants an instant perma ban, then I don't know what to say. It makes to me cringe to think that anyone could be this blindingly zealous on their quest to see all "bad boy words" (As is it's coming to) eliminated. Sorry, but this isn't preschool. I know that swearing and using bigoted language is immature, but being legimitely offended when someone swears at you jokingly is absolutely ridiculous. Is Flying squirrel on a PR campaign or something? I'm pretty sure people enjoy joking around with their friends while letting out some harsh langauge more than having to watch their mouths living in a facist police state while playing a video game.

Christ. And yes, I have brought this issue up with the admins, and they brushed me off. And no, I'm not the only one to have these thoughts about the administration. I believe people who kiss up to the admins are a minority at this point.

 -Nipplestockings 2012 (https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=1355.msg33535#msg33535)

never 4get him and also gluk's partipation here
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 07:17:29 pm
You're digging your own hole by caring about irrelevant matters. 185 pages of worthlessness,  your biggest concern should be why 5/7 Of your life is devoted to working for another man and why you have to work until you die.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 24, 2018, 07:28:15 pm
Okay then why don’t you formulate a plan to fix everything and let us know
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on March 24, 2018, 08:28:23 pm
Matt in a nutshell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJXspT2VtOE
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: joer5835 on March 24, 2018, 08:50:54 pm
your biggest concern should be why 5/7 Of your life is devoted to working for another man and why you have to work until you die.

Yeah, you're right. Let's all live out the rest of our lives in our mother's basements! Take that corporations, I won't be your slave!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 24, 2018, 09:05:03 pm
I don't follow Alex Jones, he's controlled opposition.
Not saying everything he says is  wrong, some of the things he says is right.

And LOL at Joe, this is what happens when you start questioning the system, the brainwashed try to put you down

Edit: that video of Alex Jones is from 2001, back when he was legit, everything he said in that video is true.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on March 24, 2018, 09:48:19 pm
your biggest concern should be why 5/7 Of your life is devoted to working for another man and why you have to work until you die.

Yeah, you're right. Let's all live out the rest of our lives in our mother's basements! Take that corporations, I won't be your slave!

I don't follow Alex Jones, he's controlled opposition.
Not saying everything he says is  wrong, some of the things he says is right.

And LOL at Joe, this is what happens when you start questioning the system, the brainwashed try to put you down

Edit: that video of Alex Jones is from 2001, back when he was legit, everything he said in that video is true.

This whole thread right now

https://youtu.be/v3XR9VNcaxA?t=18s
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 24, 2018, 10:00:45 pm
Air Canada is going to take over the world. You heard it here first
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on March 24, 2018, 11:18:38 pm
Matt do you support ''Atomwaffen''
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on March 25, 2018, 03:00:02 am
New California Republic coming your way
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on March 25, 2018, 05:27:12 am
I do not support neo Nazis. Don't know why you would think that. I am a free thinker that utilizes critical thinking.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on March 25, 2018, 05:32:09 am
The term neo nazis is laughable though since most modern fascists and right wingers don't want to be associated with them, I agree with that since neo-nazis are complete degenerates following beliefs they truly don't believe in.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Suns on March 26, 2018, 08:19:30 am
thoughts on Leon Degrelle?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 30, 2018, 01:13:34 am
Wow, Macron is apparently sending troops into Northern Syria to stop Erdogan's advance. Seems like an official announcement is imminent. If confirmed this is *big* news:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-france/frances-macron-vows-support-for-northern-syrians-kurdish-militia-idUKKBN1H52TZ?il=0

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 30, 2018, 01:16:33 am
Surely that would mean open war between two members of NATO?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 30, 2018, 03:05:19 am
Potentially, depends if Erdogan pushes further into Syria as he's recently threatened to do. Now that the French are in the way it's pretty high stakes. The Americans are in the area but there's ground between them and the Turks. I'm assuming Erdogan planned to push as far as the American positions and no further, but Macron is now positioning French troops in between them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 30, 2018, 04:13:12 am
I mean, good.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on March 30, 2018, 04:34:58 am
Meanwhile in canada Trudeau just put forward unbelievably stupid reforms to the Criminal Justice system

People (see: men) accused of domestic violence or with a vaguely defined "history" of domestic violence will effectively be held guilty until proven innocent for the purpose of bail. How the son of the man who implemented the Charter of Rights and Freedoms doesnt realize a reverse onus clause will never survive a Charter challenge (via right to be presumed innocent) is fucking incredible.

They are seeking to eliminate preliminary inquiries, bafflingly indicating they are doing it to save time and resources when by all accounts removing them will do just the opposite.

They still have their feathers ruffled virtue signalling over the Stanley case and have thus UNBELIEVABLY BAFFLINGLY decided they want to eliminate peremptory challenges for jury selection. What. the. actual. fuck? The only way for prosecution or defence to have a juror excluded will be to prove to the judge that the potential juror is overtly biased. This is fucking insanity...

Then we have this gem:

Quote
It also modernizes the bail system, giving police the authority to impose a broader scope of conditions on accused persons without seeking court approval — something which could reduce the strain on limited court resources.

What the fuck this is even worse than what Harper's conservatives did...

They claim they are trying to reduce strain on justice system resources but these changes will only result in MORE pretrial detention, MORE lengthy trials, and more convictions. And most ironically to their virtue signalling, the hardest hit will be aboriginals and poor who cant afford to fight a lengthy/difficult battle just for bail.

This is unbelievably absurd.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 30, 2018, 10:00:39 am
I mean, good.
How is that good?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Stroke0fd34th on March 30, 2018, 01:42:19 pm
Spoiler
Meanwhile in canada Trudeau just put forward unbelievably stupid reforms to the Criminal Justice system

People (see: men) accused of domestic violence or with a vaguely defined "history" of domestic violence will effectively be held guilty until proven innocent for the purpose of bail. How the son of the man who implemented the Charter of Rights and Freedoms doesnt realize a reverse onus clause will never survive a Charter challenge (via right to be presumed innocent) is fucking incredible.

They are seeking to eliminate preliminary inquiries, bafflingly indicating they are doing it to save time and resources when by all accounts removing them will do just the opposite.

They still have their feathers ruffled virtue signalling over the Stanley case and have thus UNBELIEVABLY BAFFLINGLY decided they want to eliminate peremptory challenges for jury selection. What. the. actual. fuck? The only way for prosecution or defence to have a juror excluded will be to prove to the judge that the potential juror is overtly biased. This is fucking insanity...

Then we have this gem:

Quote
It also modernizes the bail system, giving police the authority to impose a broader scope of conditions on accused persons without seeking court approval — something which could reduce the strain on limited court resources.

What the fuck this is even worse than what Harper's conservatives did...

They claim they are trying to reduce strain on justice system resources but these changes will only result in MORE pretrial detention, MORE lengthy trials, and more convictions. And most ironically to their virtue signalling, the hardest hit will be aboriginals and poor who cant afford to fight a lengthy/difficult battle just for bail.

This is unbelievably absurd.
[close]

lol, Trudeau being a virtue signaling idiot is his defining trait, so no surprise. In fact, the only people dumber than him are the people who voted for him and the people who still support him, and the only people who rival them are Quebec Nationalists, have a good day.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Harford on March 30, 2018, 02:25:57 pm
VIVE LE QUEBEC LIBRE
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 30, 2018, 04:29:42 pm
I mean, good.
How is that good?
Turkey won’t risk war with France, and the west owes the Kurds some protection
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on March 30, 2018, 04:43:06 pm
I mean, good.
How is that good?
Turkey won’t risk war with France, and the west owes the Kurds some protection
Maybe. Maybe not. But that’s a big bluff for France to call
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 30, 2018, 05:07:43 pm
I mean, good.
How is that good?
Turkey won’t risk war with France, and the west owes the Kurds some protection
Maybe. Maybe not. But that’s a big bluff for France to call
It’s a good one to call. I’m a realist but I’m an idealist for the Kurds
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on March 30, 2018, 06:00:52 pm
France is a pretty active militairy player anyway, much more then people tend to give it credit. It's no stranger to unilateral action.

I guess it's also worth to remember that the Syrian Democratic Forces=/=the Kurds. Whole bunch of etnicities in there, even if the YPG/YJG dominates it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on March 30, 2018, 06:25:04 pm
France is a pretty active militairy player anyway, much more then people tend to give it credit. It's no stranger to unilateral action.

I guess it's also worth to remember that the Syrian Democratic Forces=/=the Kurds. Whole bunch of etnicities in there, even if the YPG/YJG dominates it.
True. It's always a mess in Syria. Still think it's worth it tho
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on March 30, 2018, 07:29:45 pm
Yes and no. It further digs into Erdogan's 'everybody is against us'-frame. For many Turks, this will look like France sending soldiers and tanks to protect terorrists they mostly consider even worse then IS. It's a whole step further from 'just' supporting them with weapons, instruction and air-strikes. At the same time, it's good that Turkish military adventure gets checked and without a doubt it's saving lives on the ground.

I honestly don't know what's next with Syria. Assad has kinda won and at the same time kinda lost because his regime is completely dependent on foreign support. I don't see that changing anytime soon, meaning he's stuck in the Russia/Iran corner entirely. And those countries may force peace upon him to plug the drain on money and resources that Syria has become. Of course, that means that nobody who cares about rule of law or democracy or just basic human rights will get anything to say at the negotation table, but at least people will stop dying.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on March 30, 2018, 08:41:59 pm
What's next is the Kurdish question. I don't think that can be put back in the box anytime soon and it'll be the next phase of the conflict.

It's intensely complicated, and there's good arguments for intervening, but personally I don't think the West has the stomach to prevent the Kurds being crushed. It'd probably require Turkey out of NATO and could quite easily spill out from being a proxy war to one involving Western boots on the ground in large numbers. Public opinion won't allow them to go that far, and the Pentagon has probably calculated that merely arming the Kurds with weapons and military advisors won't be enough to beat a coalition of Iran/Iraq/Turkey/Syria/Russia. Safest bet is to keep out, try and prevent a slaughter using diplomatic channels but ultimately if it happens there's little they'll be able to do. No point losing Turkey and what little influence they have left in Baghdad, whilst also getting dragged into an expensive war, simply for the sake of an independent Kurdistan.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 01, 2018, 11:34:23 am
The Kurds in Syria don't want an independent Kurdistan. Their goal always has been autonomy in a decentralized Syria.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 01, 2018, 05:49:49 pm
The Kurds in Syria don't want an independent Kurdistan. Their goal always has been autonomy in a decentralized Syria.

Would they settle for independence if no one wanted a decentralized Syria?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 01, 2018, 05:58:43 pm
No, because they are fully aware that is a imposibble scenario. They can't hope to defeat Assad in the long run and even if they would, Turkey would never accept their existance. They barely respect Syrian soevereignity as it is; a break-away region would just get invaded straight away.

The YPG, later the SDF, and Assad never actually really fought eachother, and they have nothing to gain by starting. Assad is more likely to accept autonomy over a few regions not important to anyone in strategic or economic terms. Especially as he can just take away that autonomy in a few years anyway.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 01, 2018, 06:01:46 pm
The Kurds in Syria don't want an independent Kurdistan. Their goal always has been autonomy in a decentralized Syria.

Short-term perhaps, but obviously long-term they want an independent Kurdistan. It's a gradualist approach. The Kurds in Iraq on the other hand want independence ASAP. If the latter gets it I'm not sure the Syrian Kurds will settle merely for enhanced autonomy.

Also Erdogan has reacted to Macron's announcement in his usual style: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-31/turkey-says-france-could-become-target-for-backing-syria-kurds/9607004
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 01, 2018, 06:04:48 pm
Quote
If the latter gets it

Which it clearly will not.

Quote
I'm not sure the Syrian Kurds will settle merely for enhanced autonomy.

They don't have a choice.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 01, 2018, 06:23:29 pm
Quote
If the latter gets it

Which it clearly will not.

You wanna bet? With the appointment of John Bolton you can expect US policy to become much more overtly pro-Kurd.
http://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/4ce786cb-4ae1-420f-bcea-e1dd84d180a5
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 01, 2018, 06:25:23 pm
But the only way the US would get it's way would be to put boots on the ground, which they won't.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 01, 2018, 06:51:02 pm
But the only way the US would get it's way would be to put boots on the ground, which they won't.

Probably, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. Trump is hard to predict and easily led by his advisers while Bolton is very pro-war. Depends also if it turns into a proxy-war with Iran in which case the US (egged on by Saudi Arabia and Israel) may be more willing to commit.

Bolton is obsessed with US 'empire' in the Middle East. This is unfinished business from when he was advising Bush Jnr. Obama lost that chunk of the empire when he refused to enforce his 'red line' against Assad (biggest US blunder since 2003) and as a result Washington lost a great deal of influence everywhere from Ankara to Baghdad. Whoever got Bolton appointed knows what they're doing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 01, 2018, 08:28:08 pm
USA's policy is already overtly pro-kurd. Which is why they are opposed to its independence, which will lead to only more instability in the region. They didn't do shit when Iraq took back control over the border regions, and just because Trump got a new advisor doesn't actually mean he's going to listen to him.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 01, 2018, 09:57:14 pm
No, because they are fully aware that is a imposibble scenario. They can't hope to defeat Assad in the long run and even if they would, Turkey would never accept their existance. They barely respect Syrian soevereignity as it is; a break-away region would just get invaded straight away.

The YPG, later the SDF, and Assad never actually really fought eachother, and they have nothing to gain by starting. Assad is more likely to accept autonomy over a few regions not important to anyone in strategic or economic terms. Especially as he can just take away that autonomy in a few years anyway.

They will probably push for what the Kurds in Iraq have their own military thereby protecting their autonomy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 01, 2018, 10:23:49 pm
Yes, they'll demand to be allowed to keep the self-defence units. And Assad might even say yes, as he knows that an army based entirely on light infantry capabilities is one he can surely defeat, should the need arise.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 01, 2018, 10:42:58 pm
USA's policy is already overtly pro-kurd. Which is why they are opposed to its independence, which will lead to only more instability in the region. They didn't do shit when Iraq took back control over the border regions, and just because Trump got a new advisor doesn't actually mean he's going to listen to him.

That's a confusion of terms. US policy currently (well, take the word 'currently' with a pinch of salt as US policy is in flux due to personnel changes) favours Iraqi territorial integrity. In Syria it has yet to say what should happen to the Northern Kurds, probably because it doesn't know the answer itself yet. Washington is pro-Kurd up to a point, and currently that point is independence, but that may change with Bolton. It's all about Iran-if Baghdad goes too far into Iran's sphere of influence they'll break-up the country and salvage what they can. Bolton clearly thinks that point has already been reached.

Trump apparently does what the last adviser to see him says he should do and is easily swayed by those around him. I have no idea how Bolton got the job but I doubt he was appointed on a whim. Someone wants him there.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 02, 2018, 12:36:49 am
If Iran does support Iraq in a anti-Kurdish operation, the USA is in no position to support Kurdistan. Nobody wants an independent Kurdistan, so it's not going to happen. If anything, the USA needs a stable and reliable Iraqi Kurdistan to keep Iraq from shattering.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 04, 2018, 09:32:41 pm
https://www.yahoo.com/news/shooting-youtubes-california-headquarters-slideshow-wp-221647514.html

- Ethnic minority
- Female
- Strict gun law state
- YouTube headquarters (of all places)
- Vegan

It doesn't get much better than this
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 04, 2018, 09:46:18 pm
What weapon did she use?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 04, 2018, 11:51:55 pm
A 9mm handgun I believe. The vast majority of gun crime within the US is committed with handguns though, so no surprises here.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 04, 2018, 11:55:35 pm
A 9mm handgun I believe. The vast majority of gun crime within the US is committed with handguns though, so no surprises here.
And do the gun laws in the her state prohibit certain assault rifles ?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 05, 2018, 01:10:14 am
And do the gun laws in the her state prohibit certain assault rifles ?

Am I your humanoid search engine or something? Fuckin' Google it for yourself already.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Suns on April 05, 2018, 07:23:39 am
A 9mm handgun I believe. The vast majority of gun crime within the US is committed with handguns though, so no surprises here.
And do the gun laws in the her state prohibit certain assault rifles ?

Yes, California made it illegal to purchase assault rifles such as the AR-15 since January 1st of 2018.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 05, 2018, 10:17:14 am
Thanks suns for clarifying since I assume Gordo didn’t know. Could we then argue that the damage could have been worse had the shooter had access to a rifle? I think that’s a fair argument.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on April 05, 2018, 10:27:28 am
Thanks suns for clarifying since I assume Gordo didn’t know. Could we then argue that the damage could have been worse had the shooter had access to a rifle? I think that’s a fair argument.

Not without also assuming they tried their damnedest to get a rifle and couldnt and that it was because of the ban that they couldnt. Also in this case if she couldnt do any real damage with a handgun in close quarters I have a hard time imagining she would fair much better with a rifle.

Also its a meme at this point but AR 15's are not assault rifles. No selective fire/full auto = not an assault rifle
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Nero_ on April 05, 2018, 10:29:57 am
i support tommy robinson
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 05, 2018, 10:49:10 am
It’s all speculative that’s the thing. We’ll never really know if the gun laws stopped her or if she never really tried at all. It’s just very dismissive for Gordo to try and take pot shots at a state with gun restrictions when there’s no real evidence that she got around them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 05, 2018, 11:15:03 am
Thanks suns for clarifying since I assume Gordo didn’t know. Could we then argue that the damage could have been worse had the shooter had access to a rifle? I think that’s a fair argument.

Not without also assuming they tried their damnedest to get a rifle and couldnt and that it was because of the ban that they couldnt. Also in this case if she couldnt do any real damage with a handgun in close quarters I have a hard time imagining she would fair much better with a rifle.

Also its a meme at this point but AR 15's are not assault rifles. No selective fire/full auto = not an assault rifle

Normal people and soldiers barely use full auto anyway.

Also, a simple gun ban will not stop a dedicated attacker or terrorist from getting a gun. One of the most pointless laws, designed only so you can feel safe, not be safe.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 05, 2018, 01:22:12 pm
Maybe not. But it makes it harder than selling them freely.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: TheBoberton on April 05, 2018, 08:27:17 pm
It’s just very dismissive for Gordo to try and take pot shots at a state with gun restrictions when there’s no real evidence that she got around them.

That's the point, though. Even with all of California's firearm regulations, she had a weapon and thus had the lives of every person in that building in the palm of her hand for however long she was up and shooting. The only reason people didn't die is because she was clearly astoundingly incompetent with a firearm.

Insofar as I know, she didn't break any laws acquiring the handgun, and it was just a standard run of the mill 9MM S&W.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 05, 2018, 08:37:17 pm
Well there weren’t any restrictions on the weapon she was carrying, was there?Correct me if I’m wrong. So your point is mute.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: TheBoberton on April 05, 2018, 08:46:33 pm
If by that you mean it wasn't banned, then no, there were no restrictions. California, however, had an absurdly lengthy process for purchasing firearms in general, and handguns in particular.

You wouldn't happen to be suggesting that the state should have banned all firearms, are you?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: BabyJesus on April 05, 2018, 08:50:37 pm
A 9mm handgun I believe. The vast majority of gun crime within the US is committed with handguns though, so no surprises here.
And do the gun laws in the her state prohibit certain assault rifles ?

Yes, California made it illegal to purchase assault rifles such as the AR-15 since January 1st of 2018.
what happened to those that owned ars before the ban?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: TheBoberton on April 05, 2018, 08:57:48 pm
what happened to those that owned ars before the ban?

From what I'm reading, if they're already registered, or are registered by the new deadline, then they are grandfathered in (For now). If not, then congratulations on becoming a felon. I guess good on California for 'compromising' and not turning a shitload of people into criminals overnight.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 05, 2018, 09:11:18 pm
My argument isn’t that all firearms should be banned. It would be impossible in the US. But I’m saying that maybe she had a handgun because the assault rifles were banned, lessening the potential damage she could cause.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on April 05, 2018, 09:19:55 pm
My argument isn’t that all firearms should be banned. It would be impossible in the US. But I’m saying that maybe she had a handgun because the assault rifles were banned, lessening the potential damage she could cause.
I think here damage was "lessened" by her incompetence
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: TheBoberton on April 05, 2018, 09:23:06 pm
My argument isn’t that all firearms should be banned. It would be impossible in the US. But I’m saying that maybe she had a handgun because the assault rifles were banned, lessening the potential damage she could cause.

When one has complete domination over the lives of others, handguns are no less deadly than a rifle. The third most deadly shooting in American history was, in fact, committed with a pair of handguns. The only thing that saved lives in that building was the absurd incompetence of the shooter.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 05, 2018, 10:01:30 pm
Handguns have a slower rate of fire, usually a smaller calibre, less effective range and accuracy, and smaller magazines. I think Toffee has a fair argument when he says that handgun, on average, do less damage then a assault rifle when we put them in the same scenario.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Stroke0fd34th on April 05, 2018, 10:29:31 pm
Handguns have a slower rate of fire, usually a smaller calibre, less effective range and accuracy, and smaller magazines. I think Toffee has a fair argument when he says that handgun, on average, do less damage then a assault rifle when we put them in the same scenario.

Effective range doesn't really matter. If someone walks into a building they don't need a weapon that can kill @ 300 meters, and a 9mm/.45 has the same potential to kill a person as an assault rifle's 5.56/7.62mm does, especially considering most people don't walk around wearing bulletproof vests, so that's also a non-factor. I think it's pretty common for a handgun to have a 12-17 round capacity as a standard and it takes no time to reload so I feel like magazine size doesn't really matter either.

It matters a lot more about how competent a shooter is than what weapon they're using.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 05, 2018, 10:31:39 pm
usually a smaller calibre

I'm an American, so I'm not very good with the metric system. I could have sworn 9mm is larger than 5.56mm or even 7.62mm
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Stroke0fd34th on April 05, 2018, 10:34:23 pm
usually a smaller calibre

I'm an American, so I'm not very good with the metric system. I could have sworn 9mm is larger than 5.56mm or even 7.62mm

(https://i.imgur.com/jqRJr3v.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 05, 2018, 10:35:51 pm
Caliber is only the diameter of the cartridge - not the length.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Stroke0fd34th on April 05, 2018, 11:06:07 pm
Caliber is only the diameter of the cartridge - not the length.

it's just something people can reference, it's not directed at anyone.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 05, 2018, 11:10:53 pm
Thanks suns for clarifying since I assume Gordo didn’t know. Could we then argue that the damage could have been worse had the shooter had access to a rifle? I think that’s a fair argument.

My argument isn’t that all firearms should be banned. It would be impossible in the US. But I’m saying that maybe she had a handgun because the assault rifles were banned, lessening the potential damage she could cause.

Not really, given that the Dunblane massacre of 1996 was carried out with handguns alone and led to 18 deaths in total - one of the deadliest mass shootings in UK history. Personally, I'd speculate that the shooter's lack of skill and over all hysteria saved the lives of YouTube's employees, not CA's assault rifle ban. As mentioned earlier, handguns are can be just as lethal in the context of close quarters, IE a building like YouTube's, as an assault rifle when in the hands of a skilled shooter.

We already know that Aghdam practiced her shooting skills at a firing range JUST HOURS before the attack; she was certainly no professional, and I'd be willing to wager she wouldn't be skilled enough to operate a fully automatic rifle effectively enough to successfully commit mass murder in the same scenario. I think it's important to mention that she didn't actually manage kill anyone on Tuesday, and that's with a handgun in very close quarters.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 05, 2018, 11:21:46 pm
Whilst we’re talking about the UK it should be noted that firearm laws were changed after the massacre.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 05, 2018, 11:42:04 pm
If I'm not mistaken, rifle rounds are more deadly due to their increased velocity and the speed they're fired at. They do more damage to the human body.


1. A victim hit by a rifle shot will have more damage done to his or her body then if the victim were hit by a 'smaller' pistol round. I think we can all agree on that.

2. Rifles have a longer effective range, meaning a shooter can start firing at a longer distance. Though I admit that training and the ability to stabilize the gun also effects this.

3. Bigger cartridges, faster rate of fire. The fact that a shooter can put more lead in the air with a rifle then with a handgun in the same amount of time without reloading, makes it more likely that that shooter will hit more people. That's just math.

Of course, argument 2 doesn't stand if victims are all killed on the short range, and there are certain disadvantages to a rifle that a pistol doesn't have. Still, I think that the fact that rifles are simply more deadly then pistols due to bullet velocity is what makes all the difference in this case. I'm no gun expert, so feel free to rip holes in my argument.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: BabyJesus on April 06, 2018, 12:05:00 am
i thought it was obvious that rifles were more deadly han handguns. like havent any of you played cod?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 06, 2018, 12:05:39 am
If I'm not mistaken, rifle rounds are more deadly due to their increased velocity and the speed they're fired at. They do more damage to the human body.


1. A victim hit by a rifle shot will have more damage done to his or her body then if the victim were hit by a 'smaller' pistol round. I think we can all agree on that.

Actual "stopping power" relies on so many variables, I'm not so sure it's a safe bet to make the assertion. Higher velocity only means more "damage" if the projectile fired is the same (or greater) mass, which isn't the case with many (particularly muh salt rifle) longarm cartridges. You have to keep in mind the formula of "Mass * Acceleration = Force".

As an example, a powerful 5.56x45mm round may have projectiles of 4.1 grams (or 63 grains) whereas 9x19mm (common handgun cartridge) can have projectiles of up to ~8 grams (~124 grains).

The reasoning behind these differences is quite obvious. Rifle cartridges are designed for accurate fire at distance, and heaver/larger projectiles hamper this. Firearms designed for close-in shooting can afford to focus mostly on raw stopping power.

3. Bigger cartridges, faster rate of fire.

Rate of fire is very similar across the board, since this term is purely describing the time it takes to chamber another round after firing a round. I know what you're getting at though, larger magazines do require reloads less - but that's something else entirely separate from the term "rate of fire".



Edit It should also be noted that "stopping power" has a ton of other factors, too, which make it really hard to determine power of cartridges. For instance, a lot of handgun cartridges are designed specifically for self defense purposes and thus are designed to expand and transfer as much of its energy to the target as possible; by contrast, a lot of 'salt rifle' cartridges are designed from a military perspective which are designed with other principal purposes in mind (like piercing armor).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 06, 2018, 03:30:18 am
^ this.

To make it simple, a shot from a handgun hurts more.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Suns on April 06, 2018, 07:24:48 am
Maybe not. But it makes it harder than selling them freely.

lol, arguably the laws stopped her from using an AR-15 theoretically which in turn could have possibly led to more damage, but if she chose to use an AR-15 she would have likely been caught prior to entrance

gang sets in the US have AKs, gun laws don't make it harder to sell on the black market nonetheless
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 06, 2018, 09:41:40 am
Wouldn’t it be nice if we lived in a world where America wasn’t obsessed with guns
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Suns on April 06, 2018, 09:57:02 am
well considering we're the global policeman no
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 06, 2018, 10:46:30 am
well considering we're the global policeman no

Not sure that'll be the case for much longer tbh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Fwuffy on April 06, 2018, 10:54:21 am
you guys are basic
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on April 06, 2018, 02:49:10 pm
Just give every civilian nukes already
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on April 06, 2018, 06:23:31 pm
Just give every civilian nukes already
If the second amendment gives you rights to it, why not?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on April 06, 2018, 07:39:20 pm
Just give every civilian nukes already
If the second amendment gives you rights to it, why not?
I'll make sure to use it the next time some poor black chap gets killed so his fellow compatriots can't rob my local Nike store.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on April 09, 2018, 04:56:15 pm
What do you think on the latest events in Syria? Would it grow into the new confrontaion in the region? Or status-quo remains?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 09, 2018, 05:01:06 pm
What do you think on the latest events in Syria? Would it grow into the new confrontaion in the region? Or status-quo remains?
It’s happened before. Insults will be thrown, threats will be made but nothing will change.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on April 09, 2018, 05:07:20 pm
It’s happened before. Insults will be thrown, threats will be made but nothing will change.
Had a feeling that this could rise to a point of boiling. Syria turns out to be a place of showing strength to eachother by big countries and nothing more.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 09, 2018, 07:20:03 pm
What do you think on the latest events in Syria? Would it grow into the new confrontaion in the region? Or status-quo remains?
It’s happened before. Insults will be thrown, threats will be made but nothing will change.

Willing to bet we'll see something big this time. May, Macron and Trump are clearly coordinating more than usual, which is significant.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 09, 2018, 07:25:32 pm
Anything that does not involve militairy action will be meaningless.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 09, 2018, 07:38:28 pm
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2F8d%2F8db02790ad2cfb19ad0df922935beb3c264869634adefe8f0586fc645a1970e2.jpg&hash=2c3f855200da90c5dd4bf77f881c844f50548ae6)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 09, 2018, 07:55:21 pm
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2F8d%2F8db02790ad2cfb19ad0df922935beb3c264869634adefe8f0586fc645a1970e2.jpg&hash=2c3f855200da90c5dd4bf77f881c844f50548ae6)

We've been doing exactly that for seven years already.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 09, 2018, 08:01:57 pm
That’s basically every countries foreign policy at the minute. Russia and Assad are allowed to do as they please.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 10, 2018, 06:35:29 pm
Anything that does not involve militairy action will be meaningless.

Turkey though..
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 11, 2018, 05:32:32 pm
That’s basically every countries foreign policy at the minute. Russia and Assad are allowed to do as they please.

It's not Putin and Assad making threats of war with absolutely zero evidence though, is it. Remember when world leaders needed evidence stronger than a few moving images with captions such as "child struggling to breathe!!". Zero doctors or specialists in sight to verify their injuries, in an area that's being bombed to high heaven already. The west's elites are so desperate for war it's almost comical - even Trump's let his mask slide with his latest barrage of Tweets.

Seriously, there has been zero independent investigation as to whether or not this latest chemical strike was in fact conducted by Assad's forces. Could it be that one of the many "freedom fighter" groups operating in the area conducted the attack themselves to ward off the Assad/Russian airforce? We're already sure that the majority of them are in possession of such weapons themselves, or could easily acquire them. Or perhaps the strike didn't even take place at all, and the "victims" are mere actors (as was suspected with the last attack, where their poor acting was visible even through static images). How many of you can tell chemical wounds from those of an airstrike? How can you tell where these images are from, and of what time period they were taken in? God forbid we actually do any slight investigation before threatening war with a nuclear-capable nation.

But nah - non of those scenarios would appease our Saudi masters. Better send the heavy bombers to Syria, Donald!

Oh and Assad's almost won the war already. Why would he suddenly now resort to chemical weapons, attacking an area where his own troops are stationed? So naive. Shame on you.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on April 11, 2018, 10:42:41 pm
Threatening War over tweets. 2018 everyone
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/984022625440747520 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/984022625440747520)
That’s basically every countries foreign policy at the minute. Russia and Assad are allowed to do as they please.
Oh and Assad's almost won the war already. Why would he suddenly now resort to chemical weapons, attacking an area where his own troops are stationed? So naive. Shame on you.
Very much agreed. The only thing I can see is outside players influencing Trump as he ran on a cornerstone of avoiding Middle Eastern conflict.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on April 11, 2018, 11:08:47 pm
Ooooh. Theresa May trying to pull a 'rally around the flag' to distract from her terrible stint as PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43719284 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43719284)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 12, 2018, 12:11:11 am
Relax, it's just going to be a series of air/missile strikes against Assad targets. Nobody wants Russian dead bodies as a result of this, the Americans always tell Moscow what's going to be targeted so they can pull their people out.

If May isn't seeking a parliamentary vote then that probably means the UK will be in a support role. It'll be some fat American pushing the button or whatever, though Macron's a bit 'Tony Blair' so will want to kill a few Syrians to make himself feel important.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: bobertini on April 12, 2018, 09:50:06 am
Relax, it's just going to be a series of air/missile strikes against Assad targets. Nobody wants Russian dead bodies as a result of this, the Americans always tell Moscow what's going to be targeted so they can pull their people out.

If May isn't seeking a parliamentary vote then that probably means the UK will be in a support role. It'll be some fat American pushing the button or whatever, though Macron's a bit 'Tony Blair' so will want to kill a few Syrians to make himself feel important.

Secretly, who doesn't want to see some dead Russians  ;)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 12, 2018, 04:53:55 pm
Ooooh. Theresa May trying to pull a 'rally around the flag' to distract from her terrible stint as PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43719284 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43719284)

Lol. That's all I can say at this point.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sen-ted-cruz-grills-mark-zuckerberg-facebook-political-bias/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kathleenchaykowski/2018/04/11/congressional-leaders-press-zuckerberg-on-political-bias-data-collection-at-facebook/#646248721a95

Long, long overdue
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on April 12, 2018, 09:25:06 pm
Lol, that report about planned targets is like a quote about targets in film "Hot-shots".
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on April 12, 2018, 10:59:21 pm
https://www.wsj.com/articles/lawmakers-to-hear-from-pompeo-mattis-in-midst-of-syria-crisis-1523525400 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/lawmakers-to-hear-from-pompeo-mattis-in-midst-of-syria-crisis-1523525400)
I love how the new state-meta is to send mercenaries/private contractors/no-insignia soldiers to do your work because then you don't have to start a world war over it. Yum.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on April 12, 2018, 11:14:55 pm
https://www.wsj.com/articles/lawmakers-to-hear-from-pompeo-mattis-in-midst-of-syria-crisis-1523525400 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/lawmakers-to-hear-from-pompeo-mattis-in-midst-of-syria-crisis-1523525400)
I love how the new state-meta is to send mercenaries/private contractors/no-insignia soldiers to do your work because then you don't have to start a world war over it. Yum.

Proxy wars and stateless agents arent really that new tbh. Been the go-to since the Cold War
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on April 12, 2018, 11:52:42 pm
https://www.wsj.com/articles/lawmakers-to-hear-from-pompeo-mattis-in-midst-of-syria-crisis-1523525400 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/lawmakers-to-hear-from-pompeo-mattis-in-midst-of-syria-crisis-1523525400)
I love how the new state-meta is to send mercenaries/private contractors/no-insignia soldiers to do your work because then you don't have to start a world war over it. Yum.

Proxy wars and stateless agents arent really that new tbh. Been the go-to since the Cold War
What are some examples of stateless agents in the cold war? I've always known on proxy wars but didn't realize nonuniform men went during the cold war. I thought they were a post cold war phenomena.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 13, 2018, 10:45:33 pm
You serious believe all that bullshit with gas attack? Video of fanatics washing perfectly healthy children that they kidnapped months ago is a nice prove.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 13, 2018, 10:59:15 pm
Anything that does not involve militairy action will be meaningless.
Yes because military action will help conclude the war. Please take refugees you are responsible for.

Assad has no motive to use chemical weapons. If gas attack even happened it was done by USA founded rebels. City in which supposed attack happened was held by one of the most extreme fanatical rebels who would have no problem gasing civilians. This rebel group also kidnapped people from other towns and use them as meatshield say they will kill them if syria bombs the town. Video they sent is so laughable bunch of fake medics showering kidnapped children who show no sign of being hurt. If chlorine was actually used people would be coughing a lot, written claims and reports say some people just collapsed,  chlorine is cruel poision and you cough a lot before you die. They also posted picture of dead people in a bunker, easily they could just kill them with CO from intentional gasleak. All you need to make chlorine is electricity salt and water. They could even make Sarin with some heating capability. Now stop supporting your country in destroying other countries wasnt 3 milion people enough?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on April 14, 2018, 02:31:08 am
Anything that does not involve militairy action will be meaningless.
Yes because military action will help conclude the war. Please take refugees you are responsible for.

Assad has no motive to use chemical weapons. If gas attack even happened it was done by USA founded rebels. City in which supposed attack happened was held by one of the most extreme fanatical rebels who would have no problem gasing civilians. This rebel group also kidnapped people from other towns and use them as meatshield say they will kill them if syria bombs the town. Video they sent is so laughable bunch of fake medics showering kidnapped children who show no sign of being hurt. If chlorine was actually used people would be coughing a lot, written claims and reports say some people just collapsed,  chlorine is cruel poision and you cough a lot before you die. They also posted picture of dead people in a bunker, easily they could just kill them with CO from intentional gasleak. All you need to make chlorine is electricity salt and water. They could even make Sarin with some heating capability. Now stop supporting your country in destroying other countries wasnt 3 milion people enough?

I think you misinterpreted him. Point is simply saying more mean words or putting some more toothless sanctions on them would be meaningless at this point (just like with Obama's "red line" that he failed to back up when crossed). Regardless of the veracity of gas attack allegations, this is 100% correct.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 14, 2018, 03:33:49 am
They should either act and send in troops or don't bother at all and leave it to the natives to sort their shit out.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 14, 2018, 03:49:33 am
well uh they acted
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 14, 2018, 04:10:05 am
Oh dear
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on April 14, 2018, 04:13:26 am
Let's see if this goes anywhere.... again.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 14, 2018, 05:03:45 am
ahu
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 14, 2018, 08:12:36 am
Great 3 civilians injured,  they definitely now have no more gas right??
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 14, 2018, 08:44:21 am
Anything that does not involve militairy action will be meaningless.
Yes because military action will help conclude the war. Please take refugees you are responsible for.

Assad has no motive to use chemical weapons. If gas attack even happened it was done by USA founded rebels. City in which supposed attack happened was held by one of the most extreme fanatical rebels who would have no problem gasing civilians. This rebel group also kidnapped people from other towns and use them as meatshield say they will kill them if syria bombs the town. Video they sent is so laughable bunch of fake medics showering kidnapped children who show no sign of being hurt. If chlorine was actually used people would be coughing a lot, written claims and reports say some people just collapsed,  chlorine is cruel poision and you cough a lot before you die. They also posted picture of dead people in a bunker, easily they could just kill them with CO from intentional gasleak. All you need to make chlorine is electricity salt and water. They could even make Sarin with some heating capability. Now stop supporting your country in destroying other countries wasnt 3 milion people enough?

I think you misinterpreted him. Point is simply saying more mean words or putting some more toothless sanctions on them would be meaningless at this point (just like with Obama's "red line" that he failed to back up when crossed). Regardless of the veracity of gas attack allegations, this is 100% correct.
Well threats will do nothing,  while military action will be counter productive. Who shoots missiles at chemical weapon center?  Someone who knows there is no chemical weapons there and doesn't care if there was any. Just opportunity for UK to be the beta dog of USA and French goverment to show they have a big dick.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 14, 2018, 04:08:30 pm
I see we have again no shortage of gas experts, just like there was no shortage of anti-air experts after the Russians shot down MH17.

All these Assad fanboys pretending he's on some smooth path towards ultimate victory need to become slightly more aware on the absolutely abismal state of the Syrian Army and Assad complete dependency on all sorts of barely loyal militias and foreign groups. Yeah, the pro-Assad side is probably the strongest faction, but that doesn't mean they're anywhere near able to completly defeat the opposition, let alone win the war in any short period of time.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 14, 2018, 04:54:36 pm
I see we have again no shortage of gas experts, just like there was no shortage of anti-air experts after the Russians shot down MH17.

All these Assad fanboys pretending he's on some smooth path towards ultimate victory need to become slightly more aware on the absolutely abismal state of the Syrian Army and Assad complete dependency on all sorts of barely loyal militias and foreign groups. Yeah, the pro-Assad side is probably the strongest faction, but that doesn't mean they're anywhere near able to completly defeat the opposition, let alone win the war in any short period of time.
Yes of course 50 civilians is worth getting bombed by USA,  it is obvious Assad is not so stupid to use gas and give USA a reason to attack him and yes he is much stronger than rebels it is just question of time before he defeats rebels but it will still take some times since war is slow fighting for every street. If he actually wanted to use gas he would use something much more effective than chlorine which is ww1 gas and believe me he has better stuff. But you will of course keep claiming Assad used chemical weaponons even though there is no proof of it,  just like last years gas attack was never proven. And it is obvious that video is just some poorly acted sceen. Rebels used the gas on people they kidnapped from nearby city because they are desprate to get help from their liege lord USA.
Even if Assad used gas on his civilians for no reason but because he is lord Voldemort from Harry Potter bombing Syria solves nothing, they literally uploaded what they are going to bomb.
Oh and Im not Assad fanboi I am just not braindead.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 14, 2018, 05:01:08 pm
Quote
Oh and Im not Assad fanboi I am just not braindead.

Right.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 14, 2018, 05:02:19 pm
Quote
Oh and Im not Assad fanboi I am just not braindead.

Right.
Keep believing everything you hear of CCN and that USA is protector of the world while Russia is evil.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 14, 2018, 05:06:27 pm
I'm Dutch. I can't even receive CNN.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 14, 2018, 05:12:42 pm
I'm Dutch. I can't even receive CNN.
That makes everything just much worse.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 14, 2018, 05:18:40 pm
I'm Dutch. I can't even receive CNN.
That makes everything just much worse.

Notice that I actually never said anything in opposition to your claims. You're incredibly trigger-happy to attack anyone who you perceive as denying the apparantly undeniable truth. Why?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 14, 2018, 05:25:10 pm
I'm Dutch. I can't even receive CNN.
That makes everything just much worse.

Notice that I actually never said anything in opposition to your claims. You're incredibly trigger-happy to attack anyone who you perceive as denying the apparantly undeniable truth. Why?
Well saying that we are not short of gas experts seemed like you didn't agree.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 14, 2018, 05:33:18 pm
I wouldn't know. I'm not a gas expert.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: AeroNinja on April 14, 2018, 05:34:56 pm
Ur moms ass is a gass expert! ah ah ha ahah ah !!!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 14, 2018, 05:40:02 pm
I’m a Duuring expert.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: ZeroNight on April 14, 2018, 05:40:44 pm
Ur moms ass is a gass expert! ah ah ha ahah ah !!!

good one  ;D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 14, 2018, 05:43:12 pm
I’m a Duuring expert.

Undeniably the truth.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 14, 2018, 06:04:55 pm
I’m a Duuring expert.

Undeniably the truth.
fake news
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on April 14, 2018, 09:14:32 pm
I only expect more refugees from Syria into EU coming in short time.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 14, 2018, 09:30:20 pm
I only expect more refugees from Syria into EU coming in short time.
Probably but it's not like the tide ebbed away at all. People want to get away from war and we have to look at ourselves for a lot of the destruction caused.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: AeroNinja on April 14, 2018, 09:37:02 pm
Why even brother talking about politics. You cant trust all that the media says and everything that is said here wont help any situation or any problem that occur in the world. It seems this thread is kinda a game. "I am right! Fuck your opinion." Not wanting to offend anyone, but it's just useless from my point of view.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 14, 2018, 09:43:15 pm
Why even brother talking about politics. You cant trust all that the media says and everything that is said here wont help any situation or any problem that occur in the world. It seems this thread is kinda a game. "I am right! Fuck your opinion." Not wanting to offend anyone, but it's just useless from my point of view.
If nobody talked about politics then no decisions would ever be made and nothing would ever get better.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 14, 2018, 10:05:51 pm
Just because you don't believe your mind can be changed doesn't mine everyone believes that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 14, 2018, 10:25:18 pm
Why even brother talking about politics. You cant trust all that the media says and everything that is said here wont help any situation or any problem that occur in the world. It seems this thread is kinda a game. "I am right! Fuck your opinion." Not wanting to offend anyone, but it's just useless from my point of view.
You don't have to talk about politics if you dont want to.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Stroke0fd34th on April 15, 2018, 12:28:14 am
Why even brother talking about politics. You cant trust all that the media says and everything that is said here wont help any situation or any problem that occur in the world. It seems this thread is kinda a game. "I am right! Fuck your opinion." Not wanting to offend anyone, but it's just useless from my point of view.

People are social, they enjoy having discussions. If it's not about politics, it's about something else. I don't think anyone believes their contribution to this thread will help solve issues of gun control, international relations, war, famine, poverty etc. It's just conversation about a topic and subtopics they either enjoy,  can relate to, are curious about or w/e else.

It's probably more useless and pointless to say this thread is useless than it is to actually discuss the topics within the thread.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: UniversitasMetal on April 15, 2018, 12:44:55 am
Lol! Russians all talk no action!!!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 15, 2018, 12:45:18 am
Lol! Russians all talk no action!!!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on April 15, 2018, 01:42:22 am
Lol! Russians all talk no action!!!

A bigger response might be given in due time, but most likely it will not a military response, unless any further strikes will cause damage to Russian troops. Russia will stick to their diplomatic responses for now I believe. Congratulations to the coalition forces (USA, UK and France) for demonstrating their incompetence in destroying anything of importance. 71 out of the 103 missiles fired at Syria were intercepted by the Syrian army, using old Soviet-era surface-to-air missiles. This is a total humiliation for them, especially since Trump was bragging about his 'new' and 'smart' missiles.

I can only applaud Russia for their smart diplomatic play, it is quite impressive. The coalition forces managed to violate both fundamental human rights and the UNSC charter in their attack yesterday, but it's not like anyone will care or punish them for it anyways.

If Russian troops get hit in another attack though, I can guarantee you that there will be a quick and harsh military response.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 01:43:32 am
When you try to paint Russia and Assad as people who care about human rights
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on April 15, 2018, 01:44:25 am
When you try to paint Russia and Assad as people who care about human rights

But they do.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 01:54:58 am
When you try to paint Russia and Assad as people who care about human rights

But they do.
Two dictators who care about human rights.

Okay.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on April 15, 2018, 01:56:12 am
When you try to paint Russia and Assad as people who care about human rights

But they do.
Two dictators who care about human rights.

Okay.

Implying Putin is a dictator.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 02:00:16 am
Yep. Main political opponents not allowed to run. Critics found dead. Voting centre cameras covered up. Some pretty fair elections go on in Russia.

Now Assad. He is definitely a dictator.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 15, 2018, 02:12:49 am
Hmmm, that'll harm the Kremlin propaganda narrative as the 'protector of European heritage and identity'.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180414-lavrov-hints-at-punishing-europe-with-massive-wave-of-immigration-from-syria/

Mind you as a strategy it worked for Erdogan...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on April 15, 2018, 02:54:04 am
When you try to paint Russia and Assad as people who care about human rights

But they do.
If you define caring as using gas on their people, they both deeply care for their own civilians.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on April 15, 2018, 03:03:23 am
Spoiler

(https://i.imgur.com/Mxxr6To.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sf1snXP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/63OYb7B.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jPib0to.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SO8g8wx.jpg)

[close]

some memes for ya'll in these times of supporting Satan's Israel :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 15, 2018, 03:08:49 am
I'll have you know that our extremely honest and trustworthy western intelligence agencies have evidence it was Assad !!!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 15, 2018, 05:17:23 am
Lol! Russians all talk no action!!!

A bigger response might be given in due time, but most likely it will not a military response, unless any further strikes will cause damage to Russian troops. Russia will stick to their diplomatic responses for now I believe. Congratulations to the coalition forces (USA, UK and France) for demonstrating their incompetence in destroying anything of importance. 71 out of the 103 missiles fired at Syria were intercepted by the Syrian army, using old Soviet-era surface-to-air missiles. This is a total humiliation for them, especially since Trump was bragging about his 'new' and 'smart' missiles.

I can only applaud Russia for their smart diplomatic play, it is quite impressive. The coalition forces managed to violate both fundamental human rights and the UNSC charter in their attack yesterday, but it's not like anyone will care or punish them for it anyways.

If Russian troops get hit in another attack though, I can guarantee you that there will be a quick and harsh military response.

USA never published how many missiles were launched.

Yeah, a quick and harsh military response which will either lead to a nUcLeAr wAr or to a failure.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 15, 2018, 06:03:16 am
Damn y’all got really strong opinions about this lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on April 15, 2018, 06:26:52 am
Russia is just a little more democratic than the process that lead to noorwegian becoming a global mod.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on April 15, 2018, 06:59:39 am
My 5 cents.

 Russian economics is taking another hard dive, so they need to keep their diplomatic face by pretending they influencing global politics. Though, they're going more and more for a militarism in country, so they must keep the population in constant readiness for conflicts. There will be no unrest inside country if leaders talk about constant threats outside the Russia.
 About missles - no evidence or proofs about intrecepted ones were given by the way. Russian media were caught on lie so many times here in Ukraine, so why not they can make the same in Syria, lies lies.
 What we have in Syria is another little local war without high chance of getting global, the sides will keep challenging each other on both diplomatic and military fields. Remember the episode, where US troops destroyed russian troops moving to the oil fields? What action Russia took? Nothing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 10:14:53 am
When you try to paint Russia and Assad as people who care about human rights
They don't but west is much worse. USA killed more than 3 million people in Iraq, agent orange was a humanitary juice as well. Not to mention that USA election mean nothing since President or congress have no power,  look at Trump he was saying he will stop supporting rebels in Syria now that he is elected does what illuminati tell him to do. US presidents are just puppets while Putin and Assad are at least actual rulers of their country. Look a country that has a dictator that kills a few political opponents lets start a war and kill at least a milion people and refugees will go to Europe anyways.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 10:15:45 am
When you try to paint Russia and Assad as people who care about human rights

But they do.
If you define caring as using gas on their people, they both deeply care for their own civilians.
Never happened.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 10:18:22 am
My 5 cents.

 Russian economics is taking another hard dive, so they need to keep their diplomatic face by pretending they influencing global politics. Though, they're going more and more for a militarism in country, so they must keep the population in constant readiness for conflicts. There will be no unrest inside country if leaders talk about constant threats outside the Russia.
 About missles - no evidence or proofs about intrecepted ones were given by the way. Russian media were caught on lie so many times here in Ukraine, so why not they can make the same in Syria, lies lies.
 What we have in Syria is another little local war without high chance of getting global, the sides will keep challenging each other on both diplomatic and military fields. Remember the episode, where US troops destroyed russian troops moving to the oil fields? What action Russia took? Nothing.
Fact is NATO is agressor that is bullying Russia and USA broke many agreements with Russia about staying out of middle east, not building antinuke systems...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 10:25:04 am
Mcpero must be trolling. He actually used the Illuminati coupled with the old Soviet whataboutism
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 12:19:51 pm
Mcpero must be trolling. He actually used the Illuminati coupled with the old Soviet whataboutism
Nice argument
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 12:21:44 pm
Mcpero must be trolling. He actually used the Illuminati coupled with the old Soviet whataboutism
Nice argument
Yes it is. It’s the age old argument of deflecting onto somebody else to avoid criticism for something you can’t defend.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 12:43:59 pm
Mcpero must be trolling. He actually used the Illuminati coupled with the old Soviet whataboutism
Nice argument
Yes it is. It’s the age old argument of deflecting onto somebody else to avoid criticism for something you can’t defend.
Nice
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Knightmare on April 15, 2018, 12:47:16 pm
Lol! Russians all talk no action!!!
hey i'm still alive due to that ok
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 01:07:50 pm
Mcpero must be trolling. He actually used the Illuminati coupled with the old Soviet whataboutism
Nice argument
Yes it is. It’s the age old argument of deflecting onto somebody else to avoid criticism for something you can’t defend.
Nice
See you can’t deny it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Ry@n on April 15, 2018, 01:11:20 pm
thinking this threadwould be going off on one after the bombing in syria.....
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Liam on April 15, 2018, 01:34:53 pm
thinking this threadwould be going off on one after the bombing in syria.....

There has been bombing in Syria for years, big difference is this one is public and trump is "bragging" about it, that's why it's gathering much more attention, anyone with half a brain knows this is nothing new.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 01:35:19 pm
thinking this threadwould be going off on one after the bombing in syria.....
Well believe it or not but the politics thread is where we discuss politics
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 15, 2018, 02:16:57 pm
LOL. Didn't know McPero was such a russiaphile.


You might as well move to mother Russia, eh?


You know, to feel "safe from the west".
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 03:42:21 pm
Mcpero must be trolling. He actually used the Illuminati coupled with the old Soviet whataboutism
Nice argument
Yes it is. It’s the age old argument of deflecting onto somebody else to avoid criticism for something you can’t defend.
Nice
See you can’t deny it
Deny what? That your argument is used to avoid critcism for something you can't defend?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 03:45:12 pm
What are you talking about Mcpero? You’re the one using whataboutism. Sure the West has done bad things, but that doesn’t excuse Russia and Assad.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 03:45:19 pm
LOL. Didn't know McPero was such a russiaphile.


You might as well move to mother Russia, eh?


You know, to feel "safe from the west".
LOL. Didn't know Animeman was such a muricaphile.


You might as well get a job in McDonald's,  eh?


You know to feel "safe from Soviet communist invasion".
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 03:53:49 pm
What are you talking about Mcpero? You’re the one using whataboutism. Sure the West has done bad things, but that doesn’t excuse Russia and Assad.
Idk what are you talking about?  Don't know whataboutism. Of course Putin and Assad are not nice and kill political opponents. But USA caused far more destruction in the world than Russia has and it is far more hypocritical. Russia used diplomacy to befriend Syria while USA comes and starts buying mercenaries to fight against stable dictator regimes resulting in destructive war and after the war state is ruled by a diffrent dictator. I don't know how am I defending Assad and Russia they didn't use gas there is nothing to defend them for.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 03:56:54 pm
Google whataboutism and then read back your posts. Your position is indefensible and your logic is flawed. Why are you defending dictators when yesterday you were denying that they were dictators at all? Consistently changing the goalposts to suit your argument. Sounds like something Putin does to be honest.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 03:59:22 pm
Google whataboutism and then read back your posts. Your position is indefensible and your logic is flawed. Why are you defending dictators when yesterday you were denying that they were dictators at all? Consistently changing the goalposts to suit your argument. Sounds like something Putin does to be honest.
When was denying they are not dictators and when was I defending them you are just making stuff up by now.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 04:01:05 pm
Nevermind that was Norweegian. But the point remains the same. You’re defending evil men who have done terrible things just because you hate somebody else who has done terrible things. It’s quite ironic, don’t you think?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 04:03:24 pm
Nevermind that was Norweegian. But the point remains the same. You’re defending evil men who have done terrible things just because you hate somebody else who has done terrible things. It’s quite ironic, don’t you think?
I am defending innocent Syrian and Iraq people that West keeps bombing. I was never defending Putin and Assad for killing political apponents. So idk how am I defending them?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 04:14:03 pm
You mean the same Syrian and Iraqi people who are also being killed by Putin and Assad? The west has done terrible things, but wake up and see that Putin and Assad are just as bad.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 15, 2018, 04:16:13 pm
LOL. Didn't know McPero was such a russiaphile.


You might as well move to mother Russia, eh?


You know, to feel "safe from the west".
LOL. Didn't know Animeman was such a muricaphile.


You might as well get a job in McDonald's,  eh?


You know to feel "safe from Soviet communist invasion".

Proves mine and Toffee's point.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 04:19:47 pm
You mean the same Syrian and Iraqi people who are also being killed by Putin and Assad? The west has done terrible things, but wake up and see that Putin and Assad are just as bad.
So if one day there would be military uprising caused by a foreign country in UK you would judge UK army for fighting against them? But that is really irrelevant. There would be no war in first place if USA wouldn't be supporting rebel groups and ISIS. Syrian goverment just wants to end the war it is quote natural what they are doing. USA caused this destruction and Syria and Russia are doing the most rational thing to end it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 04:20:20 pm
LOL. Didn't know McPero was such a russiaphile.


You might as well move to mother Russia, eh?


You know, to feel "safe from the west".
LOL. Didn't know Animeman was such a muricaphile.


You might as well get a job in McDonald's,  eh?


You know to feel "safe from Soviet communist invasion".

Proves mine and Toffee's point.
Which point is that exactly?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 15, 2018, 04:25:00 pm
That defending accusations by accusing the accusers is not an adequete defense
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 04:26:01 pm
You mean the same Syrian and Iraqi people who are also being killed by Putin and Assad? The west has done terrible things, but wake up and see that Putin and Assad are just as bad.
So if one day there would be military uprising caused by a foreign country in UK you would judge UK army for fighting against them? But that is really irrelevant. There would be no war in first place if USA wouldn't be supporting rebel groups and ISIS. Syrian goverment just wants to end the war it is quote natural what they are doing. USA caused this destruction and Syria and Russia are doing the most rational thing to end it.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/07/up-to-13000-secretly-hanged-in-syrian-jail-says-amnesty

If he was really just defending his country then things like this wouldn’t happen.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 04:48:04 pm
You mean the same Syrian and Iraqi people who are also being killed by Putin and Assad? The west has done terrible things, but wake up and see that Putin and Assad are just as bad.
So if one day there would be military uprising caused by a foreign country in UK you would judge UK army for fighting against them? But that is really irrelevant. There would be no war in first place if USA wouldn't be supporting rebel groups and ISIS. Syrian goverment just wants to end the war it is quote natural what they are doing. USA caused this destruction and Syria and Russia are doing the most rational thing to end it.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/07/up-to-13000-secretly-hanged-in-syrian-jail-says-amnesty

If he was really just defending his country then things like this wouldn’t happen.
Things like this wouldn't happen if USA wouldn't start a war. Not to mention we don't know to what extend these reports are true.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 04:49:47 pm
That defending accusations by accusing the accusers is not an adequete defense
Again I am not defending anybody just saying Assad didn't do the gas attack but USA supported rebels did and that Western bombing was counter productive. If I say somebody didn't do something doesn't mean that I am defending them for everything else they did.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 04:56:51 pm
Blaming the US for Assad killing thousands of innocent people. Do you have no shame? Besides, certain people within the UN have said they have enough evidence for Assad to be convicted of war crimes. There’s no excuse for that.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1AT0AY
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 05:38:36 pm
Blaming the US for Assad killing thousands of innocent people. Do you have no shame? Besides, certain people within the UN have said they have enough evidence for Assad to be convicted of war crimes. There’s no excuse for that.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1AT0AY
If USA didn't interfere this most likely wouldn't happen at least not in such great extend so they are partialy guilty. What are you trying to prove? I already say on every post that Assad is bad. I am claiming Assad didnt do the gas attack and that this western intervention was counter productive. Now post something if you disagree with that but don't post another 'Assad is bad'  post.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 05:55:51 pm
Except you try and take the blame away from Assad and Putin every single time. You seem to have a thing for old Vlad and I would say you loved him except being gay is illegal in Russia...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 15, 2018, 06:02:08 pm
I'd hardly label not falling for Saudi-supplied bait as "having a thing for old Vlad"! In addition to it being rather hypocritical for a Brit to throw shade at certain middle eastern governments for committing atrocities, given that the hands of our government have been soaked in blood for the past twenty years.

Indeed: find me a murderous, radically Islamic government in the middle east and I'll find you a government that has been no doubt funded or otherwise aided by the UK government at one point or another.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 06:03:43 pm
Except you try and take the blame away from Assad and Putin every single time. You seem to have a thing for old Vlad and I would say you loved him except being gay is illegal in Russia...
I try to take blame away from Assad and Putin from this gas attack yes. No being gay in Russia is not illegal, how Russian society accepts homosexuals is another thing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 06:07:55 pm
Yes Gordo and I even awknowedleged those atrocities. But that doesn’t make Assad’s okay, does it? Mcpero the fact that you somehow blame the USA for things done by Assad is a real logical flaw. What about the war forced him to execute innocent people?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 15, 2018, 06:13:31 pm
Quote
No being gay in Russia is not illegal, how Russian society accepts homosexuals is another thing.

I cringed.

Quote
If USA didn't interfere this most likely wouldn't happen at least not in such great extend so they are partialy guilty.

The phrasing in this sentence is worthy of a Nobel price for literature.

Quote
So if one day there would be military uprising caused by a foreign country in UK you would judge UK army for fighting against them?

No. We would, however, judge the UK army for warcrimes, such as targeting civilians and using non-discriminatory and therefor illegal weaponry.

Quote
There would be no war in first place if USA wouldn't be supporting rebel groups and ISIS.


Yeah, how could anyone suggest the Assad regime has anything to do with the start of the Syrian Civil war? Imperialists, I say!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 06:55:52 pm
Quote
No being gay in Russia is not illegal, how Russian society accepts homosexuals is another thing.

I cringed.

Quote
If USA didn't interfere this most likely wouldn't happen at least not in such great extend so they are partialy guilty.

The phrasing in this sentence is worthy of a Nobel price for literature.

Quote
So if one day there would be military uprising caused by a foreign country in UK you would judge UK army for fighting against them?

No. We would, however, judge the UK army for warcrimes, such as targeting civilians and using non-discriminatory and therefor illegal weaponry.

Quote
There would be no war in first place if USA wouldn't be supporting rebel groups and ISIS.


Yeah, how could anyone suggest the Assad regime has anything to do with the start of the Syrian Civil war? Imperialists, I say!

Cringe all you want.
Gimme it.
Yes but Assad most likely didn't use gas if that is what you are applying here.
Yes there would be no war because his regime was to strong if you believe rebels could achive anything without support of west you are delusional.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 15, 2018, 06:58:25 pm
If his regime was so strong, why was he losing badly before the Russian’s intervened? And to say that the West’s meagre support for the rebel’s cause them to weaken the regime is very much wishful thinking.

If the USA had really wanted regime change, they would have changed the regime in mere days
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 07:13:15 pm
If his regime was so strong, why was he losing badly before the Russian’s intervened? And to say that the West’s meagre support for the rebel’s cause them to weaken the regime is very much wishful thinking.

If the USA had really wanted regime change, they would have changed the regime in mere days
Rebels were winning because of Western support idk what makes you think it was meagre support,  they wanted regime change but Russian intervention ruined their plans. And no they can't change regime in mere days. Oh and I can say it is wishful thinking that Assad regime is weak what kind of argument is that lol?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 07:15:03 pm
McPero are you Russian?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 07:16:24 pm
McPero are you Russian?
No. I live in a NATO country.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on April 15, 2018, 07:18:09 pm
Is it Turkey i.e. the worst of the NATO countries?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 15, 2018, 07:20:40 pm
Worst of the NATO countries is a very competitive title.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 07:27:09 pm
Is it Turkey i.e. the worst of the NATO countries?
No.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on April 15, 2018, 07:33:39 pm
So the U.S at the current height of its global strength, given no other interventionist superpower left, is failing after 7 years to topple the already disliked Assad, when in the past they've taken out more stable countries like Chile in a day. The U.S is really giving its all isn't it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 15, 2018, 08:06:02 pm
So the U.S at the current height of its global strength, given no other interventionist superpower left, is failing after 7 years to topple the already disliked Assad, when in the past they've taken out more stable countries like Chile in a day. The U.S is really giving its all isn't it?

Different situation, obviously. Also, the religious factor is a little more present.

Quote
Yes but Assad most likely didn't use gas if that is what you are applying here.

Even if he didn't, his entire regime is basically a long list of warcrimes. Or are you saying Assad or his forces are innocent of any (war)crimes or crimes against humanity? Is that what you truly believe? And please don't answer this question with 'But the USA/west'.

Quote
Yes there would be no war because his regime was to strong if you believe rebels could achive anything without support of west you are delusional

There would be no war if there hadn't been an Assad regime.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 08:10:43 pm
So the U.S at the current height of its global strength, given no other interventionist superpower left, is failing after 7 years to topple the already disliked Assad, when in the past they've taken out more stable countries like Chile in a day. The U.S is really giving its all isn't it?
Was Russian army in Chile? Was Chile really more stable? Not to mention in Chile Chilean army took over. Why would USA support rebels to overthrow regime and then suddenly say oh nevermind let him stay. Just because USA is the strongest global military power that doesn't makes it allmighty.  USA also lost in Vietnam where it actually had own military force and lost in Iran.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 08:12:37 pm
You failed to answer the question without mentioning the USA
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 15, 2018, 08:15:02 pm
McPero are you Russian?
No. I live in a NATO country.

I thought you were a Serb tbh.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 08:17:12 pm
So the U.S at the current height of its global strength, given no other interventionist superpower left, is failing after 7 years to topple the already disliked Assad, when in the past they've taken out more stable countries like Chile in a day. The U.S is really giving its all isn't it?

Different situation, obviously. Also, the religious factor is a little more present.

Quote
Yes but Assad most likely didn't use gas if that is what you are applying here.

Even if he didn't, his entire regime is basically a long list of warcrimes. Or are you saying Assad or his forces are innocent of any (war)crimes or crimes against humanity? Is that what you truly believe? And please don't answer this question with 'But the USA/west'.

Quote
Yes there would be no war because his regime was to strong if you believe rebels could achive anything without support of west you are delusional

There would be no war if there hadn't been an Assad regime.
Yes I agree there would be no war if UK kept Syria as colony and treated people well. But if there would be no Assad there would be some other dictator maybe even worse or do you propose it would somehow turn to a Scandinavian model of democracy state?  Or perhaps anarchy?

Of course he commited crimes almost every army in every war comits warcrimes, of there was serious civil war in UK,  UK goverment would commit them as well.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 08:18:22 pm
You failed to answer the question without mentioning the USA
'you failed to answer without using words' what kind of arguments are this?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 15, 2018, 08:23:16 pm
At this point I'd almost want Assad to win this war so this whole people are dying thing could be done with.

Hopefully he would give Northern Syria/The Kurds some autonomy that would be a small victory at least.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 15, 2018, 08:28:24 pm
At this point I'd almost want Assad to win this war so this whole people are dying thing could be done with.

Hopefully he would give Northern Syria/The Kurds some autonomy that would be a small victory at least.

Impossible.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 08:34:21 pm
At this point I'd almost want Assad to win this war so this whole people are dying thing could be done with.

Hopefully he would give Northern Syria/The Kurds some autonomy that would be a small victory at least.
North West Syria held by kurds is doomed since Turkish military is taking their land. North East I think he will be forced to give up maybe.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 15, 2018, 08:41:45 pm
You failed to answer the question without mentioning the USA
'you failed to answer without using words' what kind of arguments are this?
You point fingers away from Assad, use hypothetical arguments to accuse other countries and quite frankly chat shite
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 15, 2018, 08:47:21 pm
You failed to answer the question without mentioning the USA
'you failed to answer without using words' what kind of arguments are this?
You point fingers away from Assad, use hypothetical arguments to accuse other countries and quite frankly chat shite

It was literally question about USA so kinda hard to answer without using word USA.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 16, 2018, 12:45:46 am

Yes I agree there would be no war if UK kept Syria as colony and treated people well.

That's some retarded logic right there and I'd like to be clear that I never meant or support this believe in any way. The answer to colonialism isn't more colonialism. Not to mention that Syria was never a colony of the UK, merely a mandate of the French for just under two decades. Why don't you read the wikipedia page on the country first, before you make such broad statements as 'it should never have had self-determination'?

Quote
But if there would be no Assad there would be some other dictator maybe even worse or do you propose it would somehow turn to a Scandinavian model of democracy state?  Or perhaps anarchy?

Or perhaps a slightly less dictator-ish country with respect to fair claims to political and human rights.

Quote
Of course he commited crimes almost every army in every war comits warcrimes, of there was serious civil war in UK,  UK goverment would commit them as well.

If human rights and international law are that meaningless according to you, then why do you care about the USA bombing Assad?


As I mentioned earlier, Assad is very likely to cut a deal with the Kurds. Protection in return for subordination and probably the return of some regions to direct government control. The SDF cannot hope to win a war against Assad, especially not with Turkey breathing down its neck. Dunno how the lefties will spin that shit, but my money is definitaly on it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on April 16, 2018, 02:42:25 am
Tu Quoque is not an argument.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 16, 2018, 07:28:01 am

Yes I agree there would be no war if UK kept Syria as colony and treated people well.

That's some retarded logic right there and I'd like to be clear that I never meant or support this believe in any way. The answer to colonialism isn't more colonialism. Not to mention that Syria was never a colony of the UK, merely a mandate of the French for just under two decades. Why don't you read the wikipedia page on the country first, before you make such broad statements as 'it should never have had self-determination'?

Quote
But if there would be no Assad there would be some other dictator maybe even worse or do you propose it would somehow turn to a Scandinavian model of democracy state?  Or perhaps anarchy?

Or perhaps a slightly less dictator-ish country with respect to fair claims to political and human rights.

Quote
Of course he commited crimes almost every army in every war comits warcrimes, of there was serious civil war in UK,  UK goverment would commit them as well.

If human rights and international law are that meaningless according to you, then why do you care about the USA bombing Assad?


As I mentioned earlier, Assad is very likely to cut a deal with the Kurds. Protection in return for subordination and probably the return of some regions to direct government control. The SDF cannot hope to win a war against Assad, especially not with Turkey breathing down its neck. Dunno how the lefties will spin that shit, but my money is definitaly on it.
Yeah I knew it was only mandate after WW1 for some reason thought it was British. Doesn't really matters. I know you weren't saying that. But keeping colonies after WW2 would be the best thing it could happen. Europe should keep colonies untill they would develop them to level of Europe, they would become educated and wouldn't have 10 kids and democracy might work after they would be released. Now you have these poor countries opened to neocolonialism which is far worse than colonialism would be.

Assad's regime is no different to half of middle east/africa it has just been exautrated by fake news to seem like it is almost like North Korea. Syria was a good country and most people were happy to live there. So you might have more democratic states in area we are talking about but few had such a good life standard.

Well because USA is supposed to be main defender of international law? Yet they execute unjustified airstrikes on state that is fighting against terrorism. Even if airstrikes are justified they achive nothing but more destruction and if you support such airstrikes you are a bad person not just immoral but stupid.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 16, 2018, 07:40:22 am
Tu Quoque is not an argument.
Yeah it is sad how they keep using it. It is a discussion about USA airstrikes and somehow they keep pointing finger to Assad 'he did this he does this' even though I said multiple times that he is bad. Idk why would you even want to have discussion about Assad being bad or good it is obvious he is not good. I am simply criticising USA support of rebels against his regime, their airstrikes that only managed to injure 3 civilians and that Assad has no motive for gas attack and that it was executed by rebels supported by USA. It is far more important to discuss USA's action than Assads since USA is far greater danger to world peace than any other state. It is crucial to keep awareness that USA is spreading lies and is leading agressive foreign policy which is not according to international law or rather USA controls international law to their benefit. This is dangerous since your country could easily be next I don't think you would be concered with your state military killing americal mercenaries when there are lies spead about your country.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 16, 2018, 11:45:11 am
Quote
But keeping colonies after WW2 would be the best thing it could happen. Europe should keep colonies untill they would develop them to level of Europe, they would become educated and wouldn't have 10 kids and democracy might work after they would be released. Now you have these poor countries opened to neocolonialism which is far worse than colonialism would be.

Do you even realize you're citing the exact defence people had for colonialism for centuries? And your argument is, correct me if I'm wrong, 'another few decades would surely have solved all its problems!'? No, it would not. That's like saying the best way to avoid all the nasty consequencies of having a war is having a little more war.

Quote
Assad's regime is no different to half of middle east/africa it has just been exautrated by fake news to seem like it is almost like North Korea. Syria was a good country and most people were happy to live there. So you might have more democratic states in area we are talking about but few had such a good life standard.

It's really not up to you (or any of us) to decide if Syrian people had a fair reason to protest and later resist the government. There have been the most horrible regimes in the world in which 'most people were happy to live'. Which, by the way, is kinda hard to measure in dictatorships as the people who aren't happy to live there usually get a visit by the police, dissappear, flee the country, get jailed or end up dead.

A Syrian refugee writes a column for a local newspaper in my city. During the last election, he wrote about how he found it so funny peopl were so secretive about who they voted for. He explained that in Syria, you showed everybody you voted for Assad's party, all but screaming from the rooftops how much you loved voting for the party and how Assad was such an awesome leader, just to make sure the police wouldn't come after them. People would leave the curtains open and draw a much bigger cross then necessary, just to make sure anyone who wished to check could see they were being good citizens.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 16, 2018, 02:19:51 pm
It's really not up to you (or any of us) to decide if Syrian people had a fair reason to protest and later resist the government. There have been the most horrible regimes in the world in which 'most people were happy to live'. Which, by the way, is kinda hard to measure in dictatorships as the people who aren't happy to live there usually get a visit by the police, dissappear, flee the country, get jailed or end up dead.

A Syrian refugee writes a column for a local newspaper in my city. During the last election, he wrote about how he found it so funny peopl were so secretive about who they voted for. He explained that in Syria, you showed everybody you voted for Assad's party, all but screaming from the rooftops how much you loved voting for the party and how Assad was such an awesome leader, just to make sure the police wouldn't come after them. People would leave the curtains open and draw a much bigger cross then necessary, just to make sure anyone who wished to check could see they were being good citizens.

"Freedom fighter" meme
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 16, 2018, 03:38:08 pm
This reminds me of the ending of "The Dictator" we're a democracy now btw..
Swaps to a scene with a tank next to the voting station.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 16, 2018, 03:41:49 pm
Quote
But keeping colonies after WW2 would be the best thing it could happen. Europe should keep colonies untill they would develop them to level of Europe, they would become educated and wouldn't have 10 kids and democracy might work after they would be released. Now you have these poor countries opened to neocolonialism which is far worse than colonialism would be.

Do you even realize you're citing the exact defence people had for colonialism for centuries? And your argument is, correct me if I'm wrong, 'another few decades would surely have solved all its problems!'? No, it would not. That's like saying the best way to avoid all the nasty consequencies of having a war is having a little more war.

Quote
Assad's regime is no different to half of middle east/africa it has just been exautrated by fake news to seem like it is almost like North Korea. Syria was a good country and most people were happy to live there. So you might have more democratic states in area we are talking about but few had such a good life standard.

It's really not up to you (or any of us) to decide if Syrian people had a fair reason to protest and later resist the government. There have been the most horrible regimes in the world in which 'most people were happy to live'. Which, by the way, is kinda hard to measure in dictatorships as the people who aren't happy to live there usually get a visit by the police, dissappear, flee the country, get jailed or end up dead.

A Syrian refugee writes a column for a local newspaper in my city. During the last election, he wrote about how he found it so funny peopl were so secretive about who they voted for. He explained that in Syria, you showed everybody you voted for Assad's party, all but screaming from the rooftops how much you loved voting for the party and how Assad was such an awesome leader, just to make sure the police wouldn't come after them. People would leave the curtains open and draw a much bigger cross then necessary, just to make sure anyone who wished to check could see they were being good citizens.
So you are claiming pre ww2 Europe is same as post ww2 Europe?  And that colonial lords were trying to develop their colonies? No they didn't so it would be possible for colonies to catch up to their overlord countries, since global community would have eyes on colonies that they are treated well and actually developing. And of course I am aware they were claiming they are civilising colonies but they weren't really, but they would be force to do so now.

They have right to protest against Assad no doubt but I am not sure what exactly is your point here?  I agree happiness is hard to measure but most of the people usually just want high life standard which you had in Syria as long as you pretended you support and love Assad most people don't really care about having freedom of political view especially in a country that has never experienced democracy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 16, 2018, 09:47:04 pm
Quote
No they didn't so it would be possible for colonies to catch up to their overlord countries, since global community would have eyes on colonies that they are treated well and actually developing.

Jesus Christ. This is EXACTLY what the plan was for all ex-colonies: Receive self-determination, gain independence from the colonial overlord when 'ready' (which for some countries took even decades after WW2, while their independence movements usually existed long before that), and all under the watchful eye of the United Nations. But hey, it turns out that if you create a country from a weirdly drawn region you just used to get natural resources from for a century, without paying attention to its local factors like power structure, cultures, ethnic diversity, languages, all in the middle of a ideological cold world war, somehow, that tends to lead to friction. I wonder why.

You're suggesting the exact course of history as an alternative course. It's almost funny.

Not to mention that Syria never was a colony, so I actually don't know why you're even arguing this.

Quote
They have right to protest against Assad no doubt but I am not sure what exactly is your point here? .

My point is that they have the right to protest, amongst a whole set of other rights, and that no western apologist has or should have the right to argue they don't really deserve, want or need that right because that apologist isn't comfortable with that. Civilians are not to be harmed, let alone specifically targetted. Warcriminals deserve a fair trial and due punishment, not apologies or praise.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 16, 2018, 09:50:05 pm
If his regime was so strong, why was he losing badly before the Russian’s intervened? And to say that the West’s meagre support for the rebel’s cause them to weaken the regime is very much wishful thinking.

If the USA had really wanted regime change, they would have changed the regime in mere days

https://youtu.be/WisDjl6g6rk

So here is your meagre support for rebels and that this uprising is somehow natural rebellion caused by public unrest.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 16, 2018, 09:54:45 pm
Ah, TYT
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 16, 2018, 10:00:02 pm
Quote
No they didn't so it would be possible for colonies to catch up to their overlord countries, since global community would have eyes on colonies that they are treated well and actually developing.

Jesus Christ. This is EXACTLY what the plan was for all ex-colonies: Receive self-determination, gain independence from the colonial overlord when 'ready' (which for some countries took even decades after WW2, while their independence movements usually existed long before that), and all under the watchful eye of the United Nations. But hey, it turns out that if you create a country from a weirdly drawn region you just used to get natural resources from for a century, without paying attention to its local factors like power structure, cultures, ethnic diversity, languages, all in the middle of a ideological cold world war, somehow, that tends to lead to friction. I wonder why.

You're suggesting the exact course of history as an alternative course. It's almost funny.

Not to mention that Syria never was a colony, so I actually don't know why you're even arguing this.

Quote
They have right to protest against Assad no doubt but I am not sure what exactly is your point here? .

My point is that they have the right to protest, amongst a whole set of other rights, and that no western apologist has or should have the right to argue they don't really deserve, want or need that right because that apologist isn't comfortable with that. Civilians are not to be harmed, let alone specifically targetted. Warcriminals deserve a fair trial and due punishment, not apologies or praise.
Doesn't seems like you are reading what I am writing how is that exactly the same?  I said colonise should stay under colonial overlord countries untill equally developed. Is Afrika equally developed?  Was it when it was 'ready'  to be released? No it is still not. Seems like you only read the sentence you quoted because otherways what you wrote makes no sense. Read again. And Syria was mandate and before that it was Otoman province so not really western country, Turkey managed to westernize while Syria didn't so Syria should be kept as a colony by France.

Agreed.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 16, 2018, 10:06:44 pm
So when exactly stopped the anti-Assad protests (later, fighting) and did the American invasion start?

Quote
Doesn't seems like you are reading what I am writing how is that exactly the same?  I said colonise should stay under colonial overlord countries untill equally developed. Is Afrika equally developed?  Was it when it was 'ready'  to be released? No it is still not

See, the problem is that you, nor anyone besides people themselves, has right to determine this. Self-determination is not something you grant, it is something that is claimed.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 16, 2018, 10:14:49 pm
So when exactly stopped the anti-Assad protests (later, fighting) and did the American invasion start?

Quote
Doesn't seems like you are reading what I am writing how is that exactly the same?  I said colonise should stay under colonial overlord countries untill equally developed. Is Afrika equally developed?  Was it when it was 'ready'  to be released? No it is still not

See, the problem is that you, nor anyone besides people themselves, has right to determine this. Self-determination is not something you grant, it is something that is claimed.
Well it is quite obvious protests were started by USA from the beginning.

Yes Africa really seems ready to be left alone for USA and China to abuse them some more.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 16, 2018, 10:17:09 pm
Quote
Well it is quite obvious protests were started by USA from the beginning.

(https://m.popkey.co/88908e/87wQl.gif)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 16, 2018, 10:29:05 pm
Quote
Doesn't seems like you are reading what I am writing how is that exactly the same?  I said colonise should stay under colonial overlord countries untill equally developed. Is Afrika equally developed?  Was it when it was 'ready'  to be released? No it is still not

See, the problem is that you, nor anyone besides people themselves, has right to determine this. Self-determination is not something you grant, it is something that is claimed.

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzyaa2tfwBk?t=21s
[close]

how could I possibly resist
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 16, 2018, 10:45:19 pm
Quote
Well it is quite obvious protests were started by USA from the beginning.

(https://m.popkey.co/88908e/87wQl.gif)

hey it will obviously be USA's fault if a meteor kills half the planet
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Keita on April 16, 2018, 11:07:29 pm
wenger in
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on April 16, 2018, 11:54:02 pm
Quote
Doesn't seems like you are reading what I am writing how is that exactly the same?  I said colonise should stay under colonial overlord countries untill equally developed. Is Afrika equally developed?  Was it when it was 'ready'  to be released? No it is still not

See, the problem is that you, nor anyone besides people themselves, has right to determine this. Self-determination is not something you grant, it is something that is claimed.

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzyaa2tfwBk?t=21s
[close]

how could I possibly resist
That looks like a great film. I'll be watching it later; Thank you  :D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on April 17, 2018, 03:09:00 am
Ну что, политики на диване, о чем кумекаете?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on April 17, 2018, 06:05:23 am
Ну что, политики на диване, о чем кумекаете?
Is that Rusky?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 17, 2018, 06:17:39 am
Quote
Well it is quite obvious protests were started by USA from the beginning.

(https://m.popkey.co/88908e/87wQl.gif)
I hope it is not too high would be a shame if you caught a braincell.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 17, 2018, 07:01:52 am
Quote
Well it is quite obvious protests were started by USA from the beginning.

(https://m.popkey.co/88908e/87wQl.gif)

hey it will obviously be USA's fault if a meteor kills half the planet
Well they do have best capabilities to destroy meteor and minimise the damage but meteor could be to big.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 17, 2018, 02:50:34 pm
Ну что, политики на диване, о чем кумекаете?
Is that Rusky?

Of course not. There is no Russian translation for 'political discussion'.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on April 17, 2018, 03:01:10 pm
Ну что, политики на диване, о чем кумекаете?
Is that Rusky?

Of course not. There is no Russian translation for 'political discussion'.
Отличная шутка. И да, перевод существует - политическая дискуссия, mon ami.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 17, 2018, 04:01:45 pm
Lies, obviously. Next you'll be telling me Russians have a word for 'Free and fair election', or for 'constitutional rights', or hell, even for 'independent media'. I wasn't born yesterday, you know.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 17, 2018, 04:45:28 pm
Lies, obviously. Next you'll be telling me Russians have a word for 'Free and fair election', or for 'constitutional rights', or hell, even for 'independent media'. I wasn't born yesterday, you know.
Hehe xd I live in democratic state where people can go unemployed for entire life so it must mean I am better than Russians hehe.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on April 17, 2018, 04:58:07 pm
Lies, obviously. Next you'll be telling me Russians have a word for 'Free and fair election', or for 'constitutional rights', or hell, even for 'independent media'. I wasn't born yesterday, you know.
Sophisticated demagogy
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on April 17, 2018, 05:17:21 pm
The illusion of choice during elections is spread among CIS widely. Just in every country it presents in different form.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 17, 2018, 06:09:40 pm
Lies, obviously. Next you'll be telling me Russians have a word for 'Free and fair election', or for 'constitutional rights', or hell, even for 'independent media'. I wasn't born yesterday, you know.
Hehe xd I live in democratic state where people can go unemployed for entire life so it must mean I am better than Russians hehe.
So Russian’s aren’t unemployed? ???
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 17, 2018, 06:19:19 pm
Lies, obviously. Next you'll be telling me Russians have a word for 'Free and fair election', or for 'constitutional rights', or hell, even for 'independent media'. I wasn't born yesterday, you know.
Hehe xd I live in democratic state where people can go unemployed for entire life so it must mean I am better than Russians hehe.
So Russian’s aren’t unemployed? ???
Russian unemployment is actually higher than both the US and the UK
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 17, 2018, 06:30:23 pm
They have a lower GDP than Canada
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on April 17, 2018, 06:34:53 pm
I wonder why... Maybe because it is a non democratic "ex-soviet" shithole?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 17, 2018, 06:58:46 pm
oh no Olafson it's the West's fault
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 17, 2018, 07:11:49 pm
Lies, obviously. Next you'll be telling me Russians have a word for 'Free and fair election', or for 'constitutional rights', or hell, even for 'independent media'. I wasn't born yesterday, you know.

The illusion of choice during elections is spread among CIS widely. Just in every country it presents in different form.

All true, though the West actually stitched up Russian elections during the 1990s to get Yeltsin re-elected so we don't really have a moral leg to stand on.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 17, 2018, 07:28:11 pm
Meh. People like to claim that those World Bank loans were meant to get Yeltsin re-elected but it's not like Russia didn't already receive a ton of financial support anyway. They would have received those loans regardless, because they badly needed them (We should just have let it gone to shit, I guess). It's hardly 'stitching up' the election. Not to say that that election was really free and fair, because it wasn't, but that's on the Russians themselves. I know, I know, Russians like blaming the general 'West' for everything that's shit in their country (So basically, for everything), and that's exactly the mindset Putin and his cronies love. Russian citizens don't need to start thinking it's their right and responsibility to make political change or demand fair elections. Oh no.

The funniest thing is that the three major Russian parties actually ran the same three guys for president in 1996 as they did in 2018.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 17, 2018, 07:35:40 pm
Democracy is just a better form of hidden absolutism compared to dictatorship.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 17, 2018, 07:46:26 pm
Democracy is just a better form of hidden absolutism compared to dictatorship.
Are you Putin’s press officer or something?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 17, 2018, 07:58:25 pm
Do the most cruel thing imaginable to his kind of people by just ignoring him.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 17, 2018, 07:59:27 pm
Democracy is just a better form of hidden absolutism compared to dictatorship.
Hmm, in what world is that the case
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 17, 2018, 10:20:36 pm
Democracy is just a better form of hidden absolutism compared to dictatorship.
Are you Putin’s press officer or something?
This makes no sense since Putin claims he has perfect democracy.

Democracy is just a better form of hidden absolutism compared to dictatorship.
Hmm, in what world is that the case
In world where political parties can be bought,  usually politicians main goal is reelection/personal gain. State can easily frame their citizens and eliminate them like dictatorship regimes do only difference being more people will believe the frame. Why did Kennedy die? He did something big bois didn't like.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 17, 2018, 10:30:13 pm
Do the most cruel thing imaginable to his kind of people by just ignoring him.
Go ahead I don't really fancy talking with people of your kind that support USA imperialism,  terrorism,  bombing innocents and general caos/destruction for supposed spreading of democracy. You generally lack in common sense and  critical thinking capabilities.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 17, 2018, 10:30:51 pm
Those things are illegal and rare. In the UK the most scandalous thing that happens is usually scrutinised by the opposition, something which doesn’t happen in a dictatorship.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 17, 2018, 10:31:43 pm
Yet you’re a conspiracy theorist 🧐 I’m guessing Bush did 9/11, too, right?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 17, 2018, 10:37:49 pm
Yet you’re a conspiracy theorist 🧐 I’m guessing Bush did 9/11, too, right?
Idk it is possible. It definitely was quite convenient.

Those things are illegal and rare. In the UK the most scandalous thing that happens is usually scrutinised by the opposition, something which doesn’t happen in a dictatorship.
How do you know what illegal things were there that we will never know about.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 17, 2018, 10:40:26 pm
You generally lack in common sense and  critical thinking capabilities.

You cannot fool me, MATT 8)  Reveal yourself
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 17, 2018, 10:43:46 pm
You generally lack in common sense and  critical thinking capabilities.

You cannot fool me, MATT 8)  Reveal yourself
Andrew MacFokenDonald is that you m8?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 17, 2018, 10:56:05 pm
Do the most cruel thing imaginable to his kind of people by just ignoring him.
Go ahead I don't really fancy talking with people of your kind that support USA imperialism,  terrorism,  bombing innocents and general caos/destruction for supposed spreading of democracy. You generally lack in common sense and  critical thinking capabilities.

Because Russian imperialism is so much better *chuckle*.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 17, 2018, 11:02:47 pm
Do the most cruel thing imaginable to his kind of people by just ignoring him.
Go ahead I don't really fancy talking with people of your kind that support USA imperialism,  terrorism,  bombing innocents and general caos/destruction for supposed spreading of democracy. You generally lack in common sense and  critical thinking capabilities.

Because Russian imperialism is so much better *chuckle*.
Russian imperialism?  They have no imperialism they are weak but if they had it it wouldn't be any better probably.
Edit: I the one with whataboutism right?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 17, 2018, 11:09:45 pm
Well Mcpero if we don’t know about them then you can’t claim that they happened.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on April 17, 2018, 11:15:11 pm
Meh. People like to claim that those World Bank loans were meant to get Yeltsin re-elected but it's not like Russia didn't already receive a ton of financial support anyway. They would have received those loans regardless, because they badly needed them (We should just have let it gone to shit, I guess). It's hardly 'stitching up' the election. Not to say that that election was really free and fair, because it wasn't, but that's on the Russians themselves. I know, I know, Russians like blaming the general 'West' for everything that's shit in their country (So basically, for everything), and that's exactly the mindset Putin and his cronies love. Russian citizens don't need to start thinking it's their right and responsibility to make political change or demand fair elections. Oh no.

The funniest thing is that the three major Russian parties actually ran the same three guys for president in 1996 as they did in 2018.
The elections were totally not democratic. People voted to save the Soviet Union from disbanding(around 80% from the USSR, google if needed “referendum for the indivisibility of the USSR”).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 17, 2018, 11:28:39 pm
You generally lack in common sense and  critical thinking capabilities.

You cannot fool me, MATT 8)  Reveal yourself
^ remember guys big pharma controls the world and lizards have taken over the government
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on April 17, 2018, 11:37:00 pm
Where are the commie edgelords we once had when you need them?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 17, 2018, 11:40:35 pm
At least they weren’t Russian shills
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on April 17, 2018, 11:40:46 pm
Where are the commie edgelords we once had when you need them?
dw capitalism is a transitional form of communism
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 17, 2018, 11:49:43 pm
Where are the commie edgelords we once had when you need them?

Tfw Nipplestocking's last post is him implying he'll never vote again :(

He sure felt the Bern
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 17, 2018, 11:50:03 pm
Where are the commie edgelords we once had when you need them?
dw capitalism is a transitional form of communism
No it isn’t lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 17, 2018, 11:51:09 pm
longest ruse in history
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on April 17, 2018, 11:57:06 pm
Where are the commie edgelords we once had when you need them?
dw capitalism is a transitional form of communism
No it isn’t lol
Please contact Karl Marx for further information
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 18, 2018, 12:24:19 am
Where are the commie edgelords we once had when you need them?
dw capitalism is a transitional form of communism
No it isn’t lol
Please contact Karl Marx for further information
You’re thinking of Marxist socialism. Capitalism is the complete opposite.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on April 18, 2018, 12:34:55 am
Where are the commie edgelords we once had when you need them?
dw capitalism is a transitional form of communism
No it isn’t lol
Please contact Karl Marx for further information
You’re thinking of Marxist socialism. Capitalism is the complete opposite.
Read the manifest of the communistic party, I copied the words from there
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on April 18, 2018, 12:49:31 am
Where are the commie edgelords we once had when you need them?
dw capitalism is a transitional form of communism
No it isn’t lol
Please contact Karl Marx for further information
You’re thinking of Marxist socialism. Capitalism is the complete opposite.
Read the manifest of the communistic party, I copied the words from there

I miss gluk
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 18, 2018, 12:53:43 am
Where are the commie edgelords we once had when you need them?
dw capitalism is a transitional form of communism
No it isn’t lol
Please contact Karl Marx for further information
You’re thinking of Marxist socialism. Capitalism is the complete opposite.
Read the manifest of the communistic party, I copied the words from there
Capitalism is a completely different ideology. If they’re writing that, then they’re wrong.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on April 18, 2018, 12:57:33 am
Pardon, communist party*

Ok, they are wrong ;D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 18, 2018, 01:01:32 am
Pardon, communist party*

Ok, they are wrong ;D
Yes they are.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 18, 2018, 01:46:54 am
Spoiler
Where are the commie edgelords we once had when you need them?
dw capitalism is a transitional form of communism
No it isn’t lol
Please contact Karl Marx for further information
You’re thinking of Marxist socialism. Capitalism is the complete opposite.
Read the manifest of the communistic party, I copied the words from there

I miss gluk
[close]
not even Duuring takes my bait anymore
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 18, 2018, 01:50:00 am
Spoiler
Where are the commie edgelords we once had when you need them?
dw capitalism is a transitional form of communism
No it isn’t lol
Please contact Karl Marx for further information
You’re thinking of Marxist socialism. Capitalism is the complete opposite.
Read the manifest of the communistic party, I copied the words from there

I miss gluk
[close]
not even Duuring takes my bait anymore
Times change man, none of us trigger each other anymore  :'(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 18, 2018, 02:23:20 am
Where's fieldshire when you need him
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 18, 2018, 06:19:55 am
free trade is b4d
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 18, 2018, 06:29:10 am
With all these old names coming up, it's strange realizing that somehow this forum used to be even worse.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on April 18, 2018, 06:43:31 am
With all these old names coming up, it's strange realizing that somehow this forum used to be even worse.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 18, 2018, 03:51:15 pm
EU is pretty chill now except for when NWL happens a lot of people get salty, but that is to be expected tbh.
NA though.. I hear about doxing every now and then it's pretty fucked up.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 18, 2018, 04:48:37 pm
EU is pretty chill now except for when NWL happens a lot of people get salty, but that is to be expected tbh.
NA though.. I hear about doxing every now and then it's pretty fucked up.

Due to moving between time zones I've been in NA and EU. I have to agree that NA is pretty insane (or at least used to be back in late 2016, haven't played NW since then), though I was in a reg with Chantakey so maybe that explains it...only real drama that happened during my EU days was when Malakith got kicked out.

Yeah doxing is too far, I remember the good old days of Betty, GunZo and the Bush Pirates.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 18, 2018, 04:53:10 pm
Betty is tame compared to NA these days
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on April 18, 2018, 05:10:16 pm
Blitzer and his minions made some high quality content
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on April 18, 2018, 08:13:29 pm
I've always found most of the NA people I have met have either been screaming 13-15 year old edgelords, toxic group fighters or JROTC memebers who gotta make their gulf-war vet dad proud by taking NW too seriously.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on April 18, 2018, 08:15:24 pm
I spent a lot of time with a very liberal regiment but then I spent time with the PLG and went through a transitional neo-nazi period and now I'm just a baseline conservative. I'd say that most NA regiments are conservative now.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 18, 2018, 08:34:46 pm
EU is pretty chill now except for when NWL happens a lot of people get salty, but that is to be expected tbh.
NA though.. I hear about doxing every now and then it's pretty fucked up.

It seems like a bit of a flip from a few years ago. I remember the EU community being the toxic one in late MM early NW; good old HM threatening to DDoS people and subverting various regiments.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on April 18, 2018, 08:39:09 pm
I spent a lot of time with a very liberal regiment but then I spent time with the PLG and went through a transitional neo-nazi period and now I'm just a baseline conservative. I'd say that most NA regiments are conservative now.
Its usually and observable half and half I find, leaders are ranging from centrist to neo nazi while rankers are usually centrist to socialist.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on April 18, 2018, 11:12:51 pm
I spent a lot of time with a very liberal regiment but then I spent time with the PLG and went through a transitional neo-nazi period and now I'm just a baseline conservative. I'd say that most NA regiments are conservative now.
Its usually and observable half and half I find, leaders are ranging from centrist to neo nazi while rankers are usually centrist to socialist.
All crazy except Karth. Karth was amazing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 18, 2018, 11:30:28 pm
I spent a lot of time with a very liberal regiment but then I spent time with the PLG and went through a transitional neo-nazi period and now I'm just a baseline conservative. I'd say that most NA regiments are conservative now.
Its usually and observable half and half I find, leaders are ranging from centrist to neo nazi while rankers are usually centrist to socialist.
All crazy except Karth. Karth was amazing.
Did he pass away?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 18, 2018, 11:42:33 pm
I spent a lot of time with a very liberal regiment but then I spent time with the PLG and went through a transitional neo-nazi period and now I'm just a baseline conservative. I'd say that most NA regiments are conservative now.
Its usually and observable half and half I find, leaders are ranging from centrist to neo nazi while rankers are usually centrist to socialist.
Every self-respecting political member of this community has gone through a Neo-Nazi period in the PLG
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on April 18, 2018, 11:43:28 pm
I spent a lot of time with a very liberal regiment but then I spent time with the PLG and went through a transitional neo-nazi period and now I'm just a baseline conservative. I'd say that most NA regiments are conservative now.
Its usually and observable half and half I find, leaders are ranging from centrist to neo nazi while rankers are usually centrist to socialist.
All crazy except Karth. Karth was amazing.
Did he pass away?
Spartans never die; They just go missing in action
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on April 19, 2018, 12:13:20 am
Everytime you came in the 63e TS your IP was logged and traced. When the day of Karth's reckoning comes enjoy the airstrikes on your houses kidd0s.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on April 19, 2018, 01:01:41 am
Everytime you came in the 63e TS your IP was logged and traced. When the day of Karth's reckoning comes enjoy the airstrikes on your houses kidd0s.
Bushpirates will rue the day they tked Karth every Friday.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Curtis_Shuttler on April 19, 2018, 04:19:44 am
Everytime you came in the 63e TS your IP was logged and traced. When the day of Karth's reckoning comes enjoy the airstrikes on your houses kidd0s.
Fun fact about this: our Enjin website has the IP addresses of anyone who has ever sent in an application to join the regiment (or at least their IP address at the time they applied.) We sometimes used this to identify people we didn't know in the ts by cross-referencing the IP addresses from the website and the ts. This was pretty rare, however, as you can't actually look up a person by their IP address on Enjin AFAIK.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 19, 2018, 10:06:30 am
I spent a lot of time with a very liberal regiment but then I spent time with the PLG and went through a transitional neo-nazi period and now I'm just a baseline conservative. I'd say that most NA regiments are conservative now.
Its usually and observable half and half I find, leaders are ranging from centrist to neo nazi while rankers are usually centrist to socialist.

Pretty fitting I suppose.



Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/fc558d1610e878795e10240bf19e6889.png)
[close]
Why am I not surprised?

US troops are patrolling close to the border between these two, NATO infighting inc?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on April 19, 2018, 01:19:28 pm



Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/fc558d1610e878795e10240bf19e6889.png)
[close]
Why am I not surprised?

US troops are patrolling close to the border between these two, NATO infighting inc?
Turkey always used to be very independent in the NATO. And the current confrontation between Greece and Tukrey proves that a lot. I guess, Ankara will follow their interest on Syria instead of supporting NATO in kurdish question.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 19, 2018, 03:14:29 pm



Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/fc558d1610e878795e10240bf19e6889.png)
[close]
Why am I not surprised?

US troops are patrolling close to the border between these two, NATO infighting inc?
Turkey always used to be very independent in the NATO. And the current confrontation between Greece and Tukrey proves that a lot. I guess, Ankara will follow their interest on Syria instead of supporting NATO in kurdish question.
Yey more NATO terrorists against an actually healthy community.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 19, 2018, 03:19:00 pm
Turkey should be kicked from NATO and targeted as well.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT
Post by: Furrnox on April 19, 2018, 03:20:40 pm



Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/fc558d1610e878795e10240bf19e6889.png)
[close]
Why am I not surprised?

US troops are patrolling close to the border between these two, NATO infighting inc?
Turkey always used to be very independent in the NATO. And the current confrontation between Greece and Tukrey proves that a lot. I guess, Ankara will follow their interest on Syria instead of supporting NATO in kurdish question.
Yey more NATO terrorists against an actually healthy community.
What are you blabbering about?

Turkey should be kicked from NATO and targeted as well.
Remove kebab or something.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 19, 2018, 03:21:37 pm
REMOVE KEBAB
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 19, 2018, 03:35:53 pm
REMOVE KEBAB
Turkey was fine before Erdogan.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 19, 2018, 03:38:47 pm
REMOVE KEBAB
Turkey was fine before Erdogan.

REMOVE KEBAB
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT
Post by: McPero on April 19, 2018, 03:40:32 pm



Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/fc558d1610e878795e10240bf19e6889.png)
[close]
Why am I not surprised?

US troops are patrolling close to the border between these two, NATO infighting inc?
Turkey always used to be very independent in the NATO. And the current confrontation between Greece and Tukrey proves that a lot. I guess, Ankara will follow their interest on Syria instead of supporting NATO in kurdish question.
Yey more NATO terrorists against an actually healthy community.
What are you blabbering about?

Turkey should be kicked from NATO and targeted as well.
Remove kebab or something.
FSA is terrorist group.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 19, 2018, 03:41:01 pm
REMOVE KEBAB
Turkey was fine before Erdogan.

REMOVE KEBAB
Kebab is good food.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 19, 2018, 03:42:14 pm
REMOVE KEBAB
Turkey was fine before Erdogan.

REMOVE KEBAB
Kebab is good food.

ок
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 19, 2018, 04:14:36 pm
Turkey should be kicked from NATO and targeted as well.

Kick NATO's gateway to the middle east and target a holder of shared nuclear weapons?

sounds pretty risky to me
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 19, 2018, 04:19:09 pm
Turkey should be kicked from NATO and targeted as well.

Kick NATO's gateway to the middle east and target a holder of shared nuclear weapons?

sounds pretty risky to me

not really
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 19, 2018, 04:49:58 pm
Turkey should be kicked from NATO and targeted as well.

Kick NATO's gateway to the middle east and target a holder of shared nuclear weapons?

sounds pretty risky to me
If you kick Turkey from NATO then you risk Russian influence increasing.
not really
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Keita on April 19, 2018, 05:11:38 pm
holy shit all these experts
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 19, 2018, 05:15:36 pm
holy shit all these experts
Just a discussion. Nobody here claims to be an expert.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 19, 2018, 06:26:04 pm
I'm clearly an expert.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 19, 2018, 07:16:18 pm
There's actually no procedure to kick out NATO-members. Nor has it any use.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 19, 2018, 07:44:33 pm
holy shit all these experts

How many political experts did you expect to find on a forum dedicated to a DLC made for a game released in 2012?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 19, 2018, 08:18:28 pm
More then on a forum dedicated to stand-alones released in the last year.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Keita on April 19, 2018, 08:22:58 pm
lmaooooooooooooooooooooooo
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 19, 2018, 08:42:35 pm
More then on a forum dedicated to stand-alones released in the last year.
Oh shit
You tell 'em
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on April 19, 2018, 08:46:37 pm
No one claimed themselves experts (maybe except conspiracy theorists) we are all here about discussion.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: PapaBean on April 19, 2018, 08:56:19 pm
Everytime you came in the 63e TS your IP was logged and traced. When the day of Karth's reckoning comes enjoy the airstrikes on your houses kidd0s.
Bushpirates will rue the day they tked Karth every Friday.

Well I am fucked....Pinoy pack the bags back into hiding we go.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 19, 2018, 08:56:39 pm
lmaooooooooooooooooooooooo

baited xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 19, 2018, 09:45:09 pm
English people can't even speak English.

More then on a forum dedicated to stand-alones released in the last year.

 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on April 19, 2018, 10:01:15 pm
you've been waiting since November to use that eh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 19, 2018, 10:17:03 pm
I majored in court intrigue at ck2 University. Expert.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 19, 2018, 10:46:05 pm
you've been waiting since November to use that eh

lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on April 20, 2018, 10:49:32 am
English people can't even speak English.

More then on a forum dedicated to stand-alones released in the last year.

 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
duuring pleb
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 21, 2018, 03:26:43 pm
duuring pleb

cucked [✔️]
not cucked [  ]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 22, 2018, 12:01:53 am
https://youtu.be/_RtXfI1VXm0

Hmmmmmm
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on April 23, 2018, 08:43:04 am
All hail the JROTC...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 24, 2018, 12:14:03 am
They should introduce that in the Netherlands. Or just plain good old conscription.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on April 24, 2018, 10:55:34 am
Please stop. Please I beg you.

If there is one thing I would not look forward to is becoming a platoon commander of a JROTC instruction platoon.

EDIT: or a conscription platoon, that is.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 24, 2018, 02:11:53 pm
Please stop. Please I beg you.

If there is one thing I would not look forward to is becoming a platoon commander of a JROTC instruction platoon.

EDIT: or a conscription platoon, that is.

Unless you're German then there's nothing for you to worry about ;)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 24, 2018, 07:26:14 pm
But think of the career possibilities, Riddlez! You'll be captain in two years!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on April 25, 2018, 07:39:16 am
Yeah sounds awesome... a company commander who doesn't even know what his own lieutenants do.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 25, 2018, 07:56:44 am
https://youtu.be/4QAhgZsredY

Iran is behind everything guise,  we must save ourselves.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on April 25, 2018, 10:27:59 am
That's why being an NCO is much more advantegeous.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 25, 2018, 03:00:19 pm
Yeah sounds awesome... a company commander who doesn't even know what his own lieutenants do.

Come on Riddlez. Secretly you'd love commanding a platoon consisting for a third from university students, one of which is me. It'd be just like re-enactment, only I'd actually have to do all the stuff you tell me to do. My weapon will be the cleanest of all.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: joer5835 on April 25, 2018, 07:43:53 pm
My weapon will be the cleanest of all.

Bitch please
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on April 25, 2018, 11:04:35 pm
It is mostly my fault that the guns Duuring is using are dirty as shit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 26, 2018, 12:08:06 am
It is mostly my fault that the guns Duuring is using are dirty as shit.

Thank you.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 26, 2018, 02:19:25 am
The Finns have shown that leading conscripts is the best experience ever.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/fGyO2h4.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kasai on April 26, 2018, 08:48:09 am
I was scrolling through fse and saw this thread.
I laughted 10mins straight about the #fsexit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Vincenzo on April 26, 2018, 04:06:11 pm
The Finns have shown that leading conscripts is the best experience ever.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/fGyO2h4.jpg)
[close]
this is glorious.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 26, 2018, 06:00:12 pm
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/af3cd738a11ee2cd692709594bb90889.png)
[close]

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 26, 2018, 06:22:30 pm
This calls for a new poll. Tell me if I need to add more options.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 26, 2018, 06:22:42 pm
trump got Kanye playlist on repeat
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 26, 2018, 09:30:55 pm
Not for the Federal Government. They've got enough bodies to throw into other people's wars.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 26, 2018, 10:29:53 pm
Not for the Federal Government. They've got enough bodies to throw into other people's wars.

Since they're federalizing the NG all the time, I guess not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 26, 2018, 10:49:26 pm
Considering the actual extent to which Governors have control of National Guard units, I consider the National Guard part of the Federal Army regardless if they're activated or not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 26, 2018, 11:08:25 pm
It's legally impossible to create a state armed forces that cannot be called up by the federal government in certain circumstances. Even the State Defence Forces are state militias which the president can technically 'federalize'. Not that he will, because they're useless.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 26, 2018, 11:32:56 pm
State Defense Forces cannot be federalized without the Governor's compliance; however, the members of a State Defense Force aren't exempt from a Selective Service draft.

ie. even if you're in a State Defense Force, you can individually be called into Federal enlistment.

Edit The Supreme Court did touch on the matter, and said "the President should be able to raise the State Militia" but at the same time refused to actually rule in favor of it - basically just putting it off. So if it came to it, literally who knows which "side" would prevail in the argument. I'm not well read into all the precedence, but at least in the Civil War even 'Big Fed' Lincoln thought Kentucky's governor was in his right to refuse to furnish troops to suppress the rebellion.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: TheBoberton on April 27, 2018, 01:54:30 am
It's legally impossible to create a state armed forces that cannot be called up by the federal government in certain circumstances. Even the State Defence Forces are state militias which the president can technically 'federalize'. Not that he will, because they're useless.

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FY1051hF.gif&hash=fdfaff3d4bedcadcede84563f983ef7ae4e61150)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 27, 2018, 09:29:51 am
Quote
Whenever there is an insurrection in any State against its government, the President may, upon the request of its legislature or of its governor if the legislature cannot be convened, call into Federal service such of the militia of the other States, in the number requested by that State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to suppress the insurrection.

Quote
Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion.

He can't federalize them willy-nilly, but he can federalize them.

Quote
So if it came to it, literally who knows which "side" would prevail in the argument

That's assuming there's time to go to court. In reality, it would take years, and it's very unlikely any president would just politely wait for what the court decides in case of a rebellion. That being said, he won't federalize any state militias because, once again, they're basically useless for anything but support, so it would be much easier just to form new federal units. This whole discussion was relevant a century ago when the US Army was much smaller and the militia much larger.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: TheBoberton on April 27, 2018, 07:05:36 pm
Now we get into the fun realm of whether or not the constitution or more recent federal law apply. That said, if we're at the point that a President is even considering trying to mobilize state forces, they've either probably already been mobilized by their respective states, or their ranks have been so decimated by conscription that they'd be a shell of what they once were.

That being said, he won't federalize any state militias because, once again, they're basically useless for anything but support, so it would be much easier just to form new federal units.

I don't get the European disdain for militias, personally. (Militias in this case referring to SDFs, or proper organizations that have actual entry requirements; not Bob and his buddies running around backwoods Tennessee pretending to be operators and calling themselves a militia)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: joer5835 on April 27, 2018, 07:24:52 pm
I don't get the European disdain for militias, personally. (Militias in this case referring to SDFs, or proper organizations that have actual entry requirements; not Bob and his buddies running around backwoods Tennessee pretending to be operators and calling themselves a militia)

For a start, most European countries do not have a strong tradition of a federalized form of government. Germany is perhaps the most decentralized and federal of all western European nations and even they are considered pretty centralized compared to the US. As such, there is no local authority to set up militia units. The only authority that could are national governments and they have no reason at all to raise a militia. They'll just raise another professional military unit if they need more men.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 27, 2018, 07:26:43 pm
Quote
Now we get into the fun realm of whether or not the constitution or more recent federal law apply. That said, if we're at the point that a President is even considering trying to mobilize state forces, they've either probably already been mobilized by their respective states, or their ranks have been so decimated by conscription that they'd be a shell of what they once were.

True, the whole argument is kinda of a moot point.

Quote
I don't get the European disdain for militias, personally. (Militias in this case referring to SDFs, or proper organizations that have actual entry requirements; not Bob and his buddies running around backwoods Tennessee pretending to be operators and calling themselves a militia)

It's not a disdain, it's a fact that the State Militias serve almost exclusively humanitarian and disaster relief roles. Their combat training is extremely limited, and phyisical and other requirements are lower then that of the army, sometimes no requirements even exist at all. It makes sense, of course, because Tennessee is not going to need combat-ready troops to fight Kentucky anywhere in the near future. Creating combat-role troops would be a complete waste of money.

If there is a European disdain for militias, it might have something to do with certain events in the 1930s.

For a start, most European countries do not have a strong tradition of a federalized form of government. Germany is perhaps the most decentralized and federal of all western European nations and even they are considered pretty centralized compared to the US. As such, there is no local authority to set up militia units. The only authority that could are national governments and they have no reason at all to raise a militia. They'll just raise another professional military unit if they need more men.

I think TheBoBerton is referring to non-state units.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 27, 2018, 07:59:09 pm
Like I said in regards to your quotes on the constitutional phrases, the Supreme Court refused to actually rule on them is what I'm saying. Nowadays, court and historical precedent is often times perceived as more important - you can look at the stretching of the interstate commerce clause by courts and legal precedent as an example. If a Governor said "no", the Governor's decision would stand a very good chance of being upheld simply due to precedent - regardless of what's in the Constitution - which applies to most things these days, which is sad.

In regards to combat effectiveness, they actually highly vary. Most are used just as a disaster-relief force, though States like Texas, Tennessee, and South Carolina have 'combat' components that get the same type of training National Guardsmen do (weapons training, and the "one weekend a month, two weeks a year" drilling).

Also I'm pretty sure Thomas specifically stated he was talking about State militias.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 27, 2018, 08:40:27 pm
What historic precedent is there on federalizing state militias? I have no recollection of any, and if there are, precedents can be changed. There's nothing stopping a president from pointing at the Federal law (Because it isn't in the constitution, but in the Insurrection Act) that specifically allows him to federalize state militias and having the governor arrested for treason. It's much like the issue of secession which wasn't technically wasn't really illegal until 1867, seven years after Lincoln said it was and fought a war over it. There had been decades of discussion on whether states could secede and it was a war that decided it. And it's not really hard to imagine who would win a tug-of-war-match between the president and a state governor.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: TheBoberton on April 27, 2018, 08:43:44 pm
No one?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 27, 2018, 08:46:14 pm
Remember the last time a state declared itself 'neutral' during a rebellion? Didn't last very long, did it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 27, 2018, 08:48:41 pm
Welcome to the wonderful world of contradictory legislation (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/32/109).

Remember the last time a state declared itself 'neutral' during a rebellion? Didn't last very long, did it?

Even Lincoln acknowledged Kentucky being in the right to remain neutral. The only thing that ended the neutrality was the raging incompetence of Confederate General Leonidas Polk who put into motion an invasion of Kentucky, despite the wishes of both his subordinates and Confederate President Jefferson Davis.


Edit I thought you were quoting from the Constitution, sorry that I was mistaken. The fact it is legislation instead frankly weakens the federalization stance.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 27, 2018, 08:59:29 pm
Quote
Welcome to the wonderful world of contradictory legislation.

Is it though?

Quote
A defense force established under this section may be used within the jurisdiction concerned, as its chief executive (or commanding general in the case of the District of Columbia) considers necessary, but it may not be called, ordered, or drafted into the armed forces.

Quote from: Insurrection Act
[The president] may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State

It all depends on a. whether 'Federal Service' is equal to 'the Armed Forces' and b whether the emergency provisions in the Insurrection Act overstep this law. I think we agree on the answer though, that we just don't really know for sure until someone tries. The power of the president has evolved immensely, but considering it has only expanded, I believe he can federalize the state militia in case of an emergency.

Quote
Even Lincoln acknowledged Kentucky being in the right to remain neutral

Lincoln acceptance of Kentucky's neutrality was just political as he did nothing against pro-Union forces assembling and organizing, even after specifically being asked to.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 27, 2018, 09:03:36 pm
The point is rather or not it was considered "right" for a Governor to refuse State troops be federalized, not rather Lincoln was a politician willing to circumvent the law.

As to your other statements, it would probably depends on the pre-held views of those you asked. To me, "federal service" in the context is the same as calling into the armed forces - mileage varies.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 27, 2018, 09:06:24 pm
But Kentucky was never asked to federalize State troops, only to create new regiments specifically for federal service outside the territory of Kentucky.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 27, 2018, 09:10:07 pm
A poor word choice, I grant you. The Governor of Kentucky did refuse to raise said requested regiments. The Union and Confederate "Kentucky" regiments were formed without approval of the Commonwealth, without oversight from its officials, and weren't permitted to be raised within the borders of the Commonwealth.

Lincoln's "call" for volunteers asked Kentucky for four regiments, which Governor Beriah Magoffin refused. This refusal was [nominally] honored and permitted, with "creative" ways put into place to circumvent it. (the aforementioned regiments raised outside of the state of men who traveled to that state to enlist)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 27, 2018, 09:11:04 pm
That's what you get for having a lawyer as president, Americans.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 27, 2018, 09:12:47 pm
He wasn't just a lawyer; before running for an office he was a lobbyist for big rail corporations. "That's what ya get"
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 27, 2018, 09:36:44 pm
The USA's entiry history just consists of someone telling the federal government they can't do something and then being told 'Just watch me', repeated many times over.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 27, 2018, 09:38:17 pm
Well, you're not wrong.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 28, 2018, 12:40:29 am
In other news Kim Jong-un and Moon Jae-in met today on South Korean soil, (this being the first time a member of the Kim family sets foot on South Korean soil since the Korea War) to discuss denuclearization and a peace agreement.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 28, 2018, 02:22:07 am
In other news Kim Jong-un and Moon Jae-in met today on South Korean soil, (this being the first time a member of the Kim family sets foot on South Korean soil since the Korea War) to discuss denuclearization and a peace agreement.

Well, apart from his sister of course (and potentially also members of his murdered half-brother's family).

He's playing games, this is propaganda nothing more at a time when the regime is weak. He only recently survived a plot against him after the Chinese refused to back it and tipped him off. He's still going to end up like Mussolini (hung by a mob) or Stalin (murdered by his rivals). I hope it's the former.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 28, 2018, 05:33:32 am
I very much doubt the people have the courage or motive to kill him.
Do you have any source for this coup attempt?

Edit: I saw some nerd retweet this on twitter.
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/989795799633719297
It's over bois!  ;) (and no I'm not a fan of CNN.)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 28, 2018, 09:30:24 am
In other news Kim Jong-un and Moon Jae-in met today on South Korean soil, (this being the first time a member of the Kim family sets foot on South Korean soil since the Korea War) to discuss denuclearization and a peace agreement.

Well, apart from his sister of course (and potentially also members of his murdered half-brother's family).

He's playing games, this is propaganda nothing more at a time when the regime is weak. He only recently survived a plot against him after the Chinese refused to back it and tipped him off. He's still going to end up like Mussolini (hung by a mob) or Stalin (murdered by his rivals). I hope it's the former.
Stalin mudered lol?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 28, 2018, 09:38:10 am
Look Russians and Assad making kids lie!!!!! 1
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-28/hassan-becomes-face-of-information-war-surrounding-syria-douma/9705538
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 28, 2018, 11:00:24 am
Remember folks, terrorbombing your people is okay as long as you don't gas them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 28, 2018, 12:21:58 pm
Remember folks, terrorbombing your people is okay as long as you don't gas them.
Remember folks, drone striking Syrian children is okay if NATO does it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 28, 2018, 03:15:32 pm
I very much doubt the people have the courage or motive to kill him.
Do you have any source for this coup attempt?

https://news.sky.com/story/north-korea-leader-kim-jong-un-killed-relatives-over-china-coup-plot-11002869

Stalin mudered lol?

He was almost certainly poisoned via a blood thinner. Google it-medical evidence and witness testimony makes for a strong case.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 28, 2018, 06:24:37 pm
I very much doubt the people have the courage or motive to kill him.
Do you have any source for this coup attempt?

https://news.sky.com/story/north-korea-leader-kim-jong-un-killed-relatives-over-china-coup-plot-11002869

Stalin mudered lol?

He was almost certainly poisoned via a blood thinner. Google it-medical evidence and witness testimony makes for a strong case.
I cant find it link would be nice. He was 74 and had weak heart since 1945 he was stressed,  depressed and paranoid, could have easily been a natural death.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on April 28, 2018, 06:41:26 pm
There are lots of theories of Stalin's death. But officials says it was death from blood stroke into brain (or smth in that way). Every theory has it's right to live, as long as plots inside the party were not that unreal. However, the tyrant was dead, his deal remained to live though, but in other way and not for too long.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 28, 2018, 07:55:24 pm
I very much doubt the people have the courage or motive to kill him.
Do you have any source for this coup attempt?

https://news.sky.com/story/north-korea-leader-kim-jong-un-killed-relatives-over-china-coup-plot-11002869

Stalin mudered lol?

He was almost certainly poisoned via a blood thinner. Google it-medical evidence and witness testimony makes for a strong case.
I cant find it link would be nice. He was 74 and had weak heart since 1945 he was stressed,  depressed and paranoid, could have easily been a natural death.

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/05/world/new-study-supports-idea-stalin-was-poisoned.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 28, 2018, 08:02:42 pm
I wonder if this new peace agreement will lead to eased sanctions, which I'd assume was Kim Jong-un's real objective.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on April 28, 2018, 08:44:16 pm
North Korea is already fairly good at avoiding sanctions. The entire economy is planned and organized by the government. For North Korea it is incredibly easy to just completely shift gears and circumvent these sanctions. Obviously without any sanctions, that would make life a lot easier in NK, but I do not think that this is the main reason for this shift in policy.

There is also not to much point for NK to get fewer sanctions in the first place. They would only really profit from less sanctions against import/exports of military goods, but it is not like that is going to happen any time soon.
For non military goods, it is not like NK is all of the sudden going to import goods from all over the world. Even if they were allowed to, they would not do that. Kim Jong Un and his henchmen have to keep the population in place, otherwise they are soon going to be history.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on April 28, 2018, 08:55:48 pm
Can't believe the majority voted for conscription....
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 28, 2018, 09:08:40 pm
I'd even believe the denuclearization and peace talks. I don't think Kim is braindead, he knows that if he tries something the entire world will delete NK from the globe.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: MATT123456789 on April 28, 2018, 09:19:47 pm
Kim is ready to drink the kool-aid
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: fruitocino on April 28, 2018, 10:37:14 pm
Remember folks, terrorbombing your people is okay as long as you don't gas them.
Remember folks, drone striking Syrian children is okay if NATO does it.
that's exactly right   ;)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 28, 2018, 10:42:47 pm
Does the USA use drones in anti-Assad strikes?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 28, 2018, 10:55:16 pm
Does the USA use drones in anti-Assad strikes?
Don't have to be anti-Assad strikes to hit Syrian children.


I'd even believe the denuclearization and peace talks. I don't think Kim is braindead, he knows that if he tries something the entire world will delete NK from the globe.
Yet on the other hand he can use biological weapon to wipe a few milion people.


Can't believe the majority voted for conscription....
There was no feudal army option...


Olaf the god: Mergy mergy, posty posty...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 28, 2018, 11:08:24 pm
Is there a reason you can't just make a single post?

Does the USA use drones in anti-Assad strikes?
Don't have to be anti-Assad strikes to hit Syrian children.

Oh, I don't deny that US or allied strikes have hit civilians. That's a sad reality of war. The difference is that those are accidents. At worst, it's negligence. Though that's of course doesn't really matter for the person getting a bomb on his or her head.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on April 29, 2018, 03:03:52 am
Can't believe the majority voted for conscription....

? The majority voted to serve as conscripts in my own Army. I think that is a good thing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on April 29, 2018, 06:23:49 am
I'm sure they'd all prefer conscription in their exiled liege's royal army...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 29, 2018, 08:18:36 am
Is there a reason you can't just make a single post?

Does the USA use drones in anti-Assad strikes?
Don't have to be anti-Assad strikes to hit Syrian children.

Oh, I don't deny that US or allied strikes have hit civilians. That's a sad reality of war. The difference is that those are accidents. At worst, it's negligence. Though that's of course doesn't really matter for the person getting a bomb on his or her head.
I use phone it is hard to get all the quotes inside.

And Assad is hitting civilians intentionally right? Both sides hit them and are rather careless about it, US backed rebels also use civilians as meat shields and hostages.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 29, 2018, 01:37:57 pm
Is there a reason you can't just make a single post?

Does the USA use drones in anti-Assad strikes?
Don't have to be anti-Assad strikes to hit Syrian children.

Oh, I don't deny that US or allied strikes have hit civilians. That's a sad reality of war. The difference is that those are accidents. At worst, it's negligence. Though that's of course doesn't really matter for the person getting a bomb on his or her head.
I use phone it is hard to get all the quotes inside.

And Assad is hitting civilians intentionally right? Both sides hit them and are rather careless about it, US backed rebels also use civilians as meat shields and hostages.

yeah, he is
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on April 29, 2018, 04:30:25 pm

And Assad is hitting civilians intentionally right? Both sides hit them and are rather careless about it, US backed rebels also use civilians as meat shields and hostages.

T U   Q U O Q U E
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 29, 2018, 05:11:51 pm
Border clashes between SDF and the Syrian Government today Coalition and Russian airforce are supposedly extremly close to eachother.
(Sources are weak but clashes between SDF and the Government have been confirmed.)

Also South Korea have announced closure of North Korean nuclear test site in May as agreed with South Korea.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-43939375

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/c72906e3903c072d1f1235f0ade81943.png)
[close]

Mass defections? ;)

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/5b7fcd115506495082faa81d466a31ac.png)
[close]

That this is even a thing memes..
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 29, 2018, 05:35:53 pm
They're testing how far the Coalition will go in protecting the SDF. Though apparantly the SDF managed to defeat pro-Assad forces already:

https://twitter.com/PYD_Rojava/status/990610812967575558
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on April 29, 2018, 11:07:32 pm
Supposedly the mountain that the North Koreans used to test their Nukes collapsed, so really it is not surprising that they are "giving up their nuclear test site" as it was rendered fairly useless already anyway.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 30, 2018, 12:27:53 am
Is there a reason you can't just make a single post?

Does the USA use drones in anti-Assad strikes?
Don't have to be anti-Assad strikes to hit Syrian children.

Oh, I don't deny that US or allied strikes have hit civilians. That's a sad reality of war. The difference is that those are accidents. At worst, it's negligence. Though that's of course doesn't really matter for the person getting a bomb on his or her head.
I use phone it is hard to get all the quotes inside.

And Assad is hitting civilians intentionally right? Both sides hit them and are rather careless about it, US backed rebels also use civilians as meat shields and hostages.

yeah, he is
To what porpuse would he be doing that?


And Assad is hitting civilians intentionally right? Both sides hit them and are rather careless about it, US backed rebels also use civilians as meat shields and hostages.

T U   Q U O Q U E
?  Can you read?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 30, 2018, 12:30:03 am
The Syrian army shell cities with civilians inside. It’s pretty common knowledge if you know anything about the Syrian war.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 30, 2018, 12:38:11 am
The Syrian army shell cities with civilians inside. It’s pretty common knowledge if you know anything about the Syrian war.
Because rebels keep civilians as hostages inside. What is Syrian army supposed to do,  oh okay I guess we will just let this city be? You just don't seem to look at this realistically, you look at Syrian war with some humanitarian democratic idealism not practial logic.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 30, 2018, 01:05:14 am
"The SOHR attributed 83,500 civilian deaths to the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and its allies, including Russia; 7,000 to Syrian rebels and allied forces; 3,700 to Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL); 920 to the U.S.-led coalition; and 500 to Turkey."
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 30, 2018, 01:23:04 am
"The SOHR attributed 83,500 civilian deaths to the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and its allies, including Russia; 7,000 to Syrian rebels and allied forces; 3,700 to Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL); 920 to the U.S.-led coalition; and 500 to Turkey."
UK based organisation, also doesn't really include the fact that rebels use hostages that Syria than kills with air strikes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on April 30, 2018, 01:27:03 am
War has its own rules, Toffee
It happens from either side and they always cry that the other side kills civis.
Whatever, sometimes people die in war y'know.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 30, 2018, 02:11:21 am
War has its own rules, Toffee
It happens from either side and they always cry that the other side kills civis.
Whatever, sometimes people die in war y'know.
Exactly I don't think you find many people that would complain about allies bombing Nazi German civilians in cities.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 30, 2018, 02:43:40 am
War has its own rules, Toffee
It happens from either side and they always cry that the other side kills civis.
Whatever, sometimes people die in war y'know.
Exactly I don't think you find many people that would complain about allies bombing Nazi German civilians in cities.
No, that was defiantly awful & people should've been punished for it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Stroke0fd34th on April 30, 2018, 02:46:31 am
War has its own rules, Toffee
It happens from either side and they always cry that the other side kills civis.
Whatever, sometimes people die in war y'know.
Exactly I don't think you find many people that would complain about allies bombing Nazi German civilians in cities.

"The SOHR attributed 83,500 civilian deaths to the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and its allies, including Russia; 7,000 to Syrian rebels and allied forces; 3,700 to Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL); 920 to the U.S.-led coalition; and 500 to Turkey."
UK based organisation, also doesn't really include the fact that rebels use hostages that Syria than kills with air strikes.

Civilian casualties are an unfortunate reality of armed conflict, but I would assume if rebels are using your own civilians as hostages, you would try to deal with it in a different way than killing 83,500 of them. That's genuinely insane.

Allies killing German civilians in WW2 was also unfortunate, but it was a large scale conflict, bombing was safest carried out during nights and they lacked the modern technology we currently have to make their strike more precise. If they did have that, I do think they would've made more of an effort to avoid civilian casualties.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 30, 2018, 09:19:10 am
One second it was “why would he do that” and the next it’s “civilian casualties are unavoidable”. Sometimes they happen, but it can be avoided better if you don’t shell a city with hundreds of thousands of people in.

And Germany did fully intend for civilian casualties. They dropped more than a million bombs on the city.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 30, 2018, 11:55:46 am
One second it was “why would he do that” and the next it’s “civilian casualties are unavoidable”. Sometimes they happen, but it can be avoided better if you don’t shell a city with hundreds of thousands of people in.

And Germany did fully intend for civilian casualties. They dropped more than a million bombs on the city.
It was why would he kill civilians with purpose of killing civilians.

Like I said like 10 times already Assad is not an angel but truth is war would never happen if USA wouldn't back the 'freedom fighters'. Pretty sure USA knew what will happen (a bloody war)  so they are responsible for all the casulties of Syrian war. And the realistic fair thing NATO should do is fuck off from Syria and let Russia and Assad end the war. What USA should have done to make things right is help Assad destroy the rebels and send him aid to rebuild Syria.

I know but I was referring to Allies bombing German cities. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on April 30, 2018, 12:32:51 pm
Allies intended to kill civilians as well.

Also, no, USA+NATO should stay. We can't let Russia build another strongpoint in the Middle East.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on April 30, 2018, 12:34:54 pm
Allies intended to kill civilians as well.

Also, no, USA+NATO should stay. We can't let Russia build another strongpoint in the Middle East.
Boy, politics isn’t for you.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on April 30, 2018, 12:37:15 pm
One second it was “why would he do that” and the next it’s “civilian casualties are unavoidable”. Sometimes they happen, but it can be avoided better if you don’t shell a city with hundreds of thousands of people in.

And Germany did fully intend for civilian casualties. They dropped more than a million bombs on the city.
It was why would he kill civilians with purpose of killing civilians.

Like I said like 10 times already Assad is not an angel but truth is war would never happen if USA wouldn't back the 'freedom fighters'. Pretty sure USA knew what will happen (a bloody war)  so they are responsible for all the casulties of Syrian war. And the realistic fair thing NATO should do is fuck off from Syria and let Russia and Assad end the war. What USA should have done to make things right is help Assad destroy the rebels and send him aid to rebuild Syria.

I know but I was referring to Allies bombing German cities.
No one here don’t understand a thing.
USA lives because of war and ofcource they aren’t interesting in finishing the bloody carnage in Syria.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on April 30, 2018, 01:02:12 pm
As long as Russia lives by the war, because it's an only way to drag attention from internal problems.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 30, 2018, 01:10:34 pm
Quit trying to shift all the blame away from Assad. Maybe the war wouldn’t have started if Syria hadn’t been a dictatorship
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 30, 2018, 03:49:42 pm
Quit trying to shift all the blame away from Assad. Maybe the war wouldn’t have started if Syria hadn’t been a dictatorship
Whataboutism is a valid strategy to win arguments in todays "modern" world.

I thought you knew that already.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 30, 2018, 04:00:50 pm
Unfortunately Russia and co are specialists in whataboutism. America have done a lot wrong in the Middle East as have Britain. But that doesn’t excuse Assad from the atrocities that he has committed. He should be out on trial for war crimes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on April 30, 2018, 04:14:39 pm
Russia moving large amounts of aircraft to Syria?
https://twitter.com/obretix/status/990925274794614785
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on April 30, 2018, 05:49:00 pm
Unfortunately Russia and co are specialists in whataboutism. America have done a lot wrong in the Middle East as have Britain. But that doesn’t excuse Assad from the atrocities that he has committed. He should be out on trial for war crimes.
What a cuck. Assad is the closest the Middle East has had to an enlightened monarch who stands up to the West and preserves secularism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 30, 2018, 05:53:48 pm
Unfortunately Russia and co are specialists in whataboutism. America have done a lot wrong in the Middle East as have Britain. But that doesn’t excuse Assad from the atrocities that he has committed. He should be out on trial for war crimes.
What a cuck. Assad is the closest the Middle East has had to an enlightened monarch who stands up to the West and preserves secularism.
Okay
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on April 30, 2018, 06:27:38 pm
Allies intended to kill civilians as well.

Also, no, USA+NATO should stay. We can't let Russia build another strongpoint in the Middle East.

Ah yes, the "Russian aggression!" meme
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on April 30, 2018, 06:32:18 pm
Unfortunately Russia and co are specialists in whataboutism. America have done a lot wrong in the Middle East as have Britain. But that doesn’t excuse Assad from the atrocities that he has committed. He should be out on trial for war crimes.
What a cuck. Assad is the closest the Middle East has had to an enlightened monarch who stands up to the West and preserves secularism.
That fact didnt prevent the syrians from helping Iraqi during war with coalition in 2000's, although many of suiciders are syrians by nationality.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on April 30, 2018, 07:06:04 pm
Unfortunately Russia and co are specialists in whataboutism. America have done a lot wrong in the Middle East as have Britain. But that doesn’t excuse Assad from the atrocities that he has committed. He should be out on trial for war crimes.
What a cuck. Assad is the closest the Middle East has had to an enlightened monarch who stands up to the West and preserves secularism.

I'm sure the people getting barrelbombed will be happy to hear that at least they're being bombed by secular people.

Not sure why people are still trying to debate McPero. He's a walking Assad-boi-meme.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on April 30, 2018, 07:30:50 pm
Unfortunately Russia and co are specialists in whataboutism. America have done a lot wrong in the Middle East as have Britain. But that doesn’t excuse Assad from the atrocities that he has committed. He should be out on trial for war crimes.
What a cuck. Assad is the closest the Middle East has had to an enlightened monarch who stands up to the West and preserves secularism.
That fact didnt prevent the syrians from helping Iraqi during war with coalition in 2000's, although many of suiciders are syrians by nationality.
While the Assad's may have actually invented suicide bombings I still think that overall Syria stands out to other Middle Eastern countries and in a good way.

Unfortunately Russia and co are specialists in whataboutism. America have done a lot wrong in the Middle East as have Britain. But that doesn’t excuse Assad from the atrocities that he has committed. He should be out on trial for war crimes.
What a cuck. Assad is the closest the Middle East has had to an enlightened monarch who stands up to the West and preserves secularism.

I'm sure the people getting barrelbombed will be happy to hear that at least they're being bombed by secular people.

Not sure why people are still trying to debate McPero. He's a walking Assad-boi-meme.
Rebels should be given no quarter. Any of them allowed to live only causes the anti-government sentiment to continue. Have you never played a strategy game in your life? Evidently not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 30, 2018, 08:43:33 pm
Allies intended to kill civilians as well.

Also, no, USA+NATO should stay. We can't let Russia build another strongpoint in the Middle East.
'another' umm which one is their strongpoint in Middle East apart from Syria? Russia came to Syria and made a fair deal while USA proxy wars anyone that doesn't wants USA neocolonial bullshit deals and places their puppets as dictators. Since when is making allies and trade partners imperialism?
Let's count USA strongpoints...

Unfortunately Russia and co are specialists in whataboutism. America have done a lot wrong in the Middle East as have Britain. But that doesn’t excuse Assad from the atrocities that he has committed. He should be out on trial for war crimes.

You are the one using whataboutism. You are excusing NATO crimes with Assad's atrocities. Not only you use whataboutism but you also ignore what other people say.

Quit trying to shift all the blame away from Assad. Maybe the war wouldn’t have started if Syria hadn’t been a dictatorship
Assad is guilty of killing his political apponents and being ruthless in Syrian war, but he is not the main cause of the war. Assad is comparable figure to dictator of South Korea Park Chunghee, they both made a lot for people in their countries by making countries economically strong but they were both killing opposition and repressing their population.
How about we didn't have weapons in the first place? How about we all just got along?

Unfortunately Russia and co are specialists in whataboutism. America have done a lot wrong in the Middle East as have Britain. But that doesn’t excuse Assad from the atrocities that he has committed. He should be out on trial for war crimes.
What a cuck. Assad is the closest the Middle East has had to an enlightened monarch who stands up to the West and preserves secularism.

I'm sure the people getting barrelbombed will be happy to hear that at least they're being bombed by secular people.

Not sure why people are still trying to debate McPero. He's a walking Assad-boi-meme.

They are also getting bombed by not secular people.

Yeah lets just call someone a meme, because it is to hard to actually think.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 30, 2018, 08:47:45 pm
I’m not excusing nato crimes. Anybody guilty should be tried as a war criminal. Shelling citizens is avoidable. End of.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 30, 2018, 09:00:34 pm
I’m not excusing nato crimes. Anybody guilty should be tried as a war criminal. Shelling citizens is avoidable. End of.
NATO strikes hit 3 civilians,  so Macron, Trump, May should go to Hague for war crimes?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 30, 2018, 09:01:53 pm
I’m not excusing nato crimes. Anybody guilty should be tried as a war criminal. Shelling citizens is avoidable. End of.
NATO strikes hit 3 civilians,  so Macron, Trump, May should go to Hague for war crimes?
If it breaks international law then whoever made the order should go.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on April 30, 2018, 09:07:51 pm
International Law is a joke. The Global North vs the Global South will forever be the North abusing the south and it will never end. End of story
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 30, 2018, 09:09:25 pm
I’m not excusing nato crimes. Anybody guilty should be tried as a war criminal. Shelling citizens is avoidable. End of.
NATO strikes hit 3 civilians,  so Macron, Trump, May should go to Hague for war crimes?
If it breaks international law then whoever made the order should go.
International law is controlled by NATO so even if they break it which they do nothing will happen to them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on April 30, 2018, 09:13:54 pm
Reading this, I wish we were back in ancient times when killing civilians, enslaving them, destroying entire cities, killing all the livestock and destroying all crops was legit and considered a totally normal thing to do.
Just to stop this retarded discussion that is just going around in circles.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on April 30, 2018, 09:14:26 pm
Reading this, I wish we were back in ancient times when killing civilians, enslaving them, destroying entire cities, killing all the livestock and destroying all crops was legit and considered a totally normal thing to do.
Just to stop this retarded discussion that is just going in circles.
Make me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 30, 2018, 09:18:09 pm
I’m not excusing nato crimes. Anybody guilty should be tried as a war criminal. Shelling citizens is avoidable. End of.
NATO strikes hit 3 civilians,  so Macron, Trump, May should go to Hague for war crimes?
If it breaks international law then whoever made the order should go.
International law is controlled by NATO so even if they break it which they do nothing will happen to them.
International law is controlled by the UN
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on April 30, 2018, 09:37:20 pm
I’m not excusing nato crimes. Anybody guilty should be tried as a war criminal. Shelling citizens is avoidable. End of.
NATO strikes hit 3 civilians,  so Macron, Trump, May should go to Hague for war crimes?
If it breaks international law then whoever made the order should go.
International law is controlled by NATO so even if they break it which they do nothing will happen to them.
International law is controlled by the UN

No it isn't. For example the international law that most affects you probably relates to the WTO, which is not part of the UN.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on April 30, 2018, 09:50:39 pm
I’m not excusing nato crimes. Anybody guilty should be tried as a war criminal. Shelling citizens is avoidable. End of.
NATO strikes hit 3 civilians,  so Macron, Trump, May should go to Hague for war crimes?
If it breaks international law then whoever made the order should go.
International law is controlled by NATO so even if they break it which they do nothing will happen to them.
International law is controlled by the UN
my bad then

No it isn't. For example the international law that most affects you probably relates to the WTO, which is not part of the UN.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on May 01, 2018, 02:36:31 am
This thread is a circle jerk for a select few with their engraved political opinions anyways, once a person has read too far into his own ideology without reading the opposition he'll be stuck listening to himself lecture for hours.

yawn, this is why political threads don't work.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: fruitocino on May 01, 2018, 03:02:36 am
Just need some edge to steer  things in a new direction  8)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 01, 2018, 02:32:13 pm
This thread is a circle jerk for a select few with their engraved political opinions anyways, once a person has read too far into his own ideology without reading the opposition he'll be stuck listening to himself lecture for hours.

yawn, this is why political threads don't work.
You shouldn't really believe in any ideology
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 01, 2018, 03:35:43 pm
This thread is a circle jerk for a select few with their engraved political opinions anyways, once a person has read too far into his own ideology without reading the opposition he'll be stuck listening to himself lecture for hours.

yawn, this is why political threads don't work.

I think it's more of a case that we've discussed just about everything possible in the realm of politics. Just think, we've had four politics threads and three of them reached several hundred pages. What more is there? Most of us are either burned out or simply don't care about the topics of discussion at the moment.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 01, 2018, 05:01:03 pm
Then let's move into military policy? Much more interesting, much more material, less news coverage and, unlike Nortk Korean or US constitution, something I actually know something about.


To react on it immediately... conscription (in current Western Democracies) doesnt work and isn't of this time any more.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 01, 2018, 05:50:44 pm
Context-dependent. For the purpose of national defence against a numerically superior force, conscription greatly expands defensive capabilities and makes it easier to set up a capable resistance force after a succesful invasion. This increases the costs for an invader, and makes invasion less likely to happen at all.

However, for our greatly specialized and essentially small-scaled warfare, yeah, conscription serves little militairy purpose. The money is better spend in something else.

So countries like Lithuania, Finland and (to a lesser degree) Sweden? Yeah, conscription serves a purpose. The Netherlands or Canada? Not so much.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 01, 2018, 07:17:34 pm

So countries like Lithuania, Finland and (to a lesser degree) Sweden? Yeah, conscription serves a purpose. The Netherlands or Canada? Not so much.
Why would Sweden need conscription? Strategically one of the least important countries, apart from steel no natural resources, nobody is going to invade them.

I think conscription is more of adulthood initiation not really useful for military purposes. But overall waste of money and against human rights.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 01, 2018, 07:49:23 pm
Context-dependent. For the purpose of national defence against a numerically superior force, conscription greatly expands defensive capabilities and makes it easier to set up a capable resistance force after a succesful invasion. This increases the costs for an invader, and makes invasion less likely to happen at all.

However, for our greatly specialized and essentially small-scaled warfare, yeah, conscription serves little militairy purpose. The money is better spend in something else.

So countries like Lithuania, Finland and (to a lesser degree) Sweden? Yeah, conscription serves a purpose. The Netherlands or Canada? Not so much.

That's the military angle and I agree with it, but the arguments for conscription are also to do with civil integration and skills training. European countries with massive inward migration and large numbers of NEETs could perhaps benefit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 01, 2018, 08:38:24 pm
Mcpero you just said that there was no natural resources produced there and then gave a valuable resource.

I don’t agree with conscription since it violates citizen rights unless it’s in extraordinary circumstances.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 01, 2018, 08:48:40 pm
Context-dependent. For the purpose of national defence against a numerically superior force, conscription greatly expands defensive capabilities and makes it easier to set up a capable resistance force after a succesful invasion. This increases the costs for an invader, and makes invasion less likely to happen at all.

However, for our greatly specialized and essentially small-scaled warfare, yeah, conscription serves little militairy purpose. The money is better spend in something else.

So countries like Lithuania, Finland and (to a lesser degree) Sweden? Yeah, conscription serves a purpose. The Netherlands or Canada? Not so much.

That's the military angle and I agree with it, but the arguments for conscription are also to do with civil integration and skills training. European countries with massive inward migration and large numbers of NEETs could perhaps benefit.

Agreed, although the same argument why it doesn't really serve a purpose in the militairy works in the integrationquestion. Yes, it could improve integration, but the question is whether it improves it more then spending the same amount of money in a different way. I don't agree about skills training; the money would be much better spend in offering actual job-focussed education.

Conscription is not against human rights as long as it offers a reasonable alternative service-path.

Sweden has a huge territory and a relatively small populationm, and is not a NATO-member. Gotland especially is a valuable target. For national defence, a purely professional force might simply not be enough. It is not as in danger as Finland or Estonia, but certainly is in a riskier position then the Netherlands or France.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 01, 2018, 10:09:08 pm
Well, whatever they're currently spending it on is hardly working well in either category...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 01, 2018, 10:20:36 pm
We already  have an invention for fighting a numerically superior force. It's called manoeuvre warfare and has been proven to work in a number of wars. It is much better to have a professional standing army in any war than to have a conscription army without any meaningful continued ability to develop skills and doctrine. Especially with today's technological side of warfare you need trained soldier with who it doesnt matter if their training lasts 3/4th of a year and then basically starts again the moment they join an operational unit instead of half a year of training in a conscription unit which would get hammered by superior professional forces anyway.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 01, 2018, 10:39:04 pm
Quote
We already  have an invention for fighting a numerically superior force. It's called manoeuvre warfare and has been proven to work in a number of wars.

One does not excluse the other. Lithuania has 8000 professional soldiers plus 4.000 reservists and has to protect a territory as large as Belgium and the Netherlands combined. It needs conscription to meet recruitment numbers to effectively do that. The choice is not between a fully professional army or a fully conscript army, that's a bit of a strawman. There are various models.

I don't doubt you are better up-to-date on technogical advances in warfare, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, the actual fighting is still mostly done by guys with rifles. Access to modern technology doesn't mean it's actually used. Syria, Iraq, Ukraine, all are basically fought the same way they would have been in the 80s, by both sides. Is Russia using T-14s in Syria, or Chechens armed with weapons from the 70s? I mean, Ukraine is currently in the middle of a war and their most modern technogical advances have been creating special apps for soldiers to use instead of easily decoded Facebook Messenger and using drones to drop grenades on Russians.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 01, 2018, 11:14:09 pm
Hey, if you want to get depressed I have the right thing for you!

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja5Q75hf6QI
[close]

It's also split in parts if you'd not like to watch it all at once.

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKHPTHx0ScQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S77dCAZzcLM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8rRqRoCUsg
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 01, 2018, 11:16:21 pm
Is that the video where they show the dozens of completely wrecked pick-ups some Afghan Police base has stored so they can collect gas money?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 01, 2018, 11:51:18 pm
They do at one point, yes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 02, 2018, 12:18:40 am
Bless those Americans soldiers for their patience and effort. Felt so sorry for them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 02, 2018, 09:37:05 am
but, and correct me if I'm wrong, the actual fighting is still mostly done by guys with rifles.

While this is technically true there is much more to be said about combat than "fighting with rifles". The complexity of combat operations is incredible... The individual specialisations out there in modern armies are getting more and more complex in increasingly demanding environments... You cannot simply assume you give someone a rifle, some ammo and a little but of training and expect them to perform in modern combat.... it just doesnt work that way anymore.... This shows in the way basic soldiers get trained now... BCT in thw '70 was done within half a year... usually a 3 to four momths. After that they were immediately pressed into service for half a year.

The comabt trainings are still jhust as long but the current standard is to such an extent now that as soon as you come straight out of training, you basically know how to hold and shoot your rifle. At least another year of training is required until one is a fully functional member of the unit and able to be an individual and independantly operating soldier. Not to mention they have no actual specialisation when they come out of basic, that still needs to be trained.

Then there's the matter of officers. If you have a conscription army, you need conscripted officers. The minimum amount of training you undergo as an officer in the Netherlands is 1.5 years... and that is for combat service support unit. Go to manoeuvre and you're stuck to at least 2 years.... and that is for people who already have a bachelor. These days you need officers with a high intellectual capacity... The americans thought they didnt and are currently facing the problems with subaltern officer.... well.... basically being too stupid.
There is a reason the US cannot seem to fucking properly conduct stab ops.... a significant part of it is because its personnel is too stupid... combat isn't any less complicated... especially if you're fighting a numerically superior foe, you need to be the quicker, more smarter army... you cannot just beat a numerically superior foe by somewhat increasing your numbers.....
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 02, 2018, 09:54:38 am
You can still send all your badly trained conscripts into a trench or a fuel depot and tell them to defend it. Sure, they probably won't defeat a professional army, but at least they will make it harder for them to capture the thing. There is no point in guarding a fuel depot with professional soldiers, they are more valuable at the front. You are probably also assuming that the other side is numerically superior and has mostly well trained troops, which sounds off.

Besides that, unless your country is on an island (think the UK or US) and you are fighting a war against an enemy with the same technological standards as your own country, you will eventually run out of professional troops and you will not have the time to train new. You will be forced to use conscripts, as you simply will no longer have the manpower to defend yourself.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 02, 2018, 11:47:42 am
Just look at the Taliban they're beating back the Afghan government in rural areas and now controls more territory than they've ever had since the NATO invasion, even though ANA
and ANP have air support and some heavier weaponry. But then again the ANA and ANP is awful, riddled with corruption and desertions.

Both the US government (at least under Obama) & the Afghan government have admitted that defeating the Taliban is no longer realistic and so a peaceful solution needs to be found.
This is but one example there's also the militas in Syria, Iraq & Ukraine. So yes conscripted, militias etc can be effective.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 02, 2018, 11:50:40 am

While this is technically true there is much more to be said about combat than "fighting with rifles". The complexity of combat operations is incredible... The individual specialisations out there in modern armies are getting more and more complex in increasingly demanding environments... You cannot simply assume you give someone a rifle, some ammo and a little but of training and expect them to perform in modern combat.... it just doesnt work that way anymore....

But that's exactly how it works in Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Ukraine and nearly every post-Soviet conflict like the Nagorno-Karabach conflict and the Chechen wars.


Quote
This shows in the way basic soldiers get trained now... BCT in thw '70 was done within half a year... usually a 3 to four momths. After that they were immediately pressed into service for half a year. The comabt trainings are still jhust as long but the current standard is to such an extent now that as soon as you come straight out of training, you basically know how to hold and shoot your rifle. At least another year of training is required until one is a fully functional member of the unit and able to be an individual and independantly operating soldier. Not to mention they have no actual specialisation when they come out of basic, that still needs to be trained.

But you do not require optimal training in order to be reasonable combat effective. Olafson mentioned it as well, and although he puts it rather simple, it is essentially true. Not all militairy roles or even all combat roles require specialized trained soldiers. Look at the Dutch National Reserve, whose main militairy task is to simply free full-time soldiers for more important tasks then guarding a harbour.

Quote
Then there's the matter of officers. If you have a conscription army, you need conscripted officers. The minimum amount of training you undergo as an officer in the Netherlands is 1.5 years... and that is for combat service support unit. Go to manoeuvre and you're stuck to at least 2 years.... and that is for people who already have a bachelor. These days you need officers with a high intellectual capacity... The americans thought they didnt and are currently facing the problems with subaltern officer.... well.... basically being too stupid.
There is a reason the US cannot seem to fucking properly conduct stab ops.... a significant part of it is because its personnel is too stupid... combat isn't any less complicated... especially if you're fighting a numerically superior foe, you need to be the quicker, more smarter army... you cannot just beat a numerically superior foe by somewhat increasing your numbers.....

Again, you offer a choice between a fully professional army and one made entirely out of conscripts. That is not the only choice.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 02, 2018, 11:53:09 am
Ukraine still triggers me REEEEEEEE.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 02, 2018, 12:06:07 pm
Hmmm yes it is true that I was only talking about manoeuvre groups... perhaps logistics would be a suitable role for conscripts...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 02, 2018, 12:10:12 pm
Logistics, (rear) security, deskjobs, technical roles, basically anything that frees professional troops from doing what they do best; actually fighting the enemy. You obviously don't use troops not trained for specialized combat roles in specialized combat roles. My dad drove a jeep to transport either officers or tank parts during his service.

But apart from freeing professional troops, it also creates a large back-up of easily mobilized troops, which at the same time makes it easier to set up resistance forces. If your country faces a risk of actual invasion, having conscripts to support the professional army and expand its defensive reach makes perfect sense and can be a reasonable cost-effective endeavour.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 02, 2018, 12:15:08 pm
Mostly because conscripts are basically the State's Bitches by law.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 02, 2018, 12:20:06 pm
I don't oppose conscription even in the Netherlands, although I accept the counter-argument that it's much more effective to spend the same amount of money in just expanding (or repairing) the professional army. I think Lithuania has a pretty good model though, where they first conscript those who volunteer and only use random selection if they don't meet their target. I think they reached their targets by just volunteers for every year since the re-instation. There are plenty of people who are very much willing to support national defence without making it their career.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 02, 2018, 12:23:47 pm
No use in expanding any military if there is no basis. It is not just the Dutch Military, the belgian military doesnt have a singel infantry battalion filled over 80% anymore... The french army has an entire division's worth of open applications (15.000), the german military barely has anything that flies anymore and the British aren't doing much better from what I have heard.... and those are the principal fighting nations of Europe (except belgium then). Greece is doing fine considering their armed forces ar for home defense anyway... and I really don't know anything about Italy but I imagine they're in pretty deep shit, along with Spain.

Scandanavia is doing fine from last I heard, so at least we have Denmark as a standing army...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 02, 2018, 12:28:11 pm
All Scandivanian countries, as well as Finland, use a form of conscription.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 02, 2018, 12:30:59 pm
British army has cut jobs in the past few years but is still one of the best in terms of training. Two aircraft carriers have also been built.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 02, 2018, 12:46:18 pm
There are various reasons why recruitment has gone down, though. Cutbacks, a bad reputation (The militairy is only in the news when someone dies or some accident happens), demographic changes and very low unemployment. The armed forces isn't the only organization looking for people, and it just isn't the most appealing to many. I won't be surprised if conscription becomes an issue during the next national election.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 02, 2018, 01:00:27 pm
Yeah the British army have been stuck on a 1% payrise for the last 8 years with the rest of the public services meaning they have had real term pay cuts due to the inflation rate. Considering they were already on low pay there isn’t much incentive past gaining skills for post-military life. I think most people view the army as a means to an end.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 02, 2018, 02:27:56 pm
I can only speak for myself but I do oppose conscription because not only is it semi ineffective but it also more importantly violates my personal freedoms which I'd only accept being overwritten if we were in some kind of extreme crisis.
Which news flash Sweden isn't. I'd still support increased military spending though especially since Russia can't leave our airspace and waters alone REEEEE.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 02, 2018, 02:34:53 pm
Stop writing
REEEEEEEEEEEE.
it triggers me almost as much as Holdfasts rivers do.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 02, 2018, 02:37:15 pm
Good.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 02, 2018, 02:48:00 pm
Mcpero you just said that there was no natural resources produced there and then gave a valuable resource.

I don’t agree with conscription since it violates citizen rights unless it’s in extraordinary circumstances.
I said apart from steel and steel is mostly just iron which is not hard to come by. Their biggest threat Russia has enough of it.

Extraordinary circumstances is just an excuse for violation of human rights.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 02, 2018, 02:54:03 pm
I can only speak for myself but I do oppose conscription because not only is it semi ineffective but it also more importantly violates my personal freedoms which I'd only accept being overwritten if we were in some kind of extreme crisis.
Which news flash Sweden isn't. I'd still support increased military spending though especially since Russia can't leave our airspace and waters alone REEEEE.

The government forcing you to do something isn't necessarily a violation of personal freedoms. Unless you're one of those people that think seatbelt regulations are a violation of your personal liberties, of course.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 02, 2018, 03:17:06 pm
I don't think that is as severe as potentially forcing me to kill someone.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 02, 2018, 04:10:17 pm
But conscription also offers non-combat or non-militairy paths.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 02, 2018, 04:18:37 pm
But conscription also offers non-combat or non-militairy paths.
It may for some. But for those who are conscripted into combat roles, they’re essentially being forced into a kill or be killed situation in the event of invasion.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 02, 2018, 04:21:21 pm
No, because you still voluntarily choose the military path.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 02, 2018, 04:24:08 pm
But conscription also offers non-combat or non-militairy paths.

True, but there's the risk of those positions already being filled & I'd be bound by the military for however long the mandatory military service is.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 02, 2018, 04:25:46 pm
No, because you still voluntarily choose the military path.
Under some circumstances maybe but could you guarantee that for everybody?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 02, 2018, 04:38:06 pm
But conscription also offers non-combat or non-militairy paths.

True, but there's the risk of those positions already being filled & I'd be bound by the military for however long the mandatory military service is.

Alternative service should not have a maximum quota. In that case, yes, it is against civil liberties.

No, because you still voluntarily choose the military path.
Under some circumstances maybe but could you guarantee that for everybody?

Yes. You are given a choice between two options. You choose one.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 02, 2018, 04:40:10 pm
Not in every country. In the US draft once you’re inducted you can’t choose where they put you
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 02, 2018, 11:08:17 pm
In that case, yes, it is against civil liberties.

Although putting yourself in harms way for the benefit of society is legally pretty old and established.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 03, 2018, 02:09:48 am
Lol, Britain is leaving the EU and the Dutch are going to pay for it.
I look forward to Merkel, with Macron just behind her, walking over Amsterdam and making them pay up. It's quite clever how the Germans have managed to get other people to finance their empire.

Called it!
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/05/dutch-dig-in-heels-rise-in-eu-budget-is-not-acceptable-says-prime-minister/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on May 03, 2018, 02:29:26 am
EU is a joke at this point.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 03, 2018, 02:31:08 am
When are we going to expand Europol? :/

EU is a joke at this point.

Kinda I'm hoping for some reforms once the UK actually leaves.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 03, 2018, 08:14:11 am
Lol, Britain is leaving the EU and the Dutch are going to pay for it.
I look forward to Merkel, with Macron just behind her, walking over Amsterdam and making them pay up. It's quite clever how the Germans have managed to get other people to finance their empire.

Called it!
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/05/dutch-dig-in-heels-rise-in-eu-budget-is-not-acceptable-says-prime-minister/
It is only right.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 03, 2018, 08:18:47 am
When are we going to expand Europol? :/

EU is a joke at this point.

Kinda I'm hoping for some reforms once the UK actually leaves.
Yeah like trade blockade on UK.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 03, 2018, 09:46:04 am
In that case, yes, it is against civil liberties.

Although putting yourself in harms way for the benefit of society is legally pretty old and established.
Why does something being old make it okay?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 03, 2018, 09:53:20 am
Do you have to make about 30 posts?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 03, 2018, 12:51:31 pm
Not in every country. In the US draft once you’re inducted you can’t choose where they put you

Yes as soon as you're drafted into the military. What Duuring means is that you can object to yourself being called to the military. You can refuse service in the armed forces on ethical grounds.

After that you get two choices: instead of doing 1.5 years of service, or two years of alternative service, like in nursing homes, cleaning, hospitals, garbage services. You can choose what kind of alternative service you'd do yourself. It is either that, or 6 months incarceration.

At least, this was the Dutch system.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 03, 2018, 01:46:15 pm
Lol, Britain is leaving the EU and the Dutch are going to pay for it.
I look forward to Merkel, with Macron just behind her, walking over Amsterdam and making them pay up. It's quite clever how the Germans have managed to get other people to finance their empire.

Called it!
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/05/dutch-dig-in-heels-rise-in-eu-budget-is-not-acceptable-says-prime-minister/

Quote
‘Brexit is already set to hit the Netherlands’ economy hard. This proposal imposes a disproportionately high bill on top of that,’ Rutte said. In addition, the compensation for major net payers is being phased out, and this is something the Netherlands therefore ‘rejects,’ the prime minister said.

The Netherlands currently pays some €7bn a year into the Brussels coffers, but that could rise to approaching €10m if the plans go through. In particular, the commission wants to phase out the Dutch rebate of around €1bn and cut the amount of customs tax the Netherlands can keep from 20% to 10%. Rebates and discounts granted to other countries, including Austria and Germany, are also up for the chop. The commission says the benefits need to be scrapped in order to simplify the complex EU financial systems.

Certainly a different tune from last year's snobbish rhetoric towards our contribution to the Union.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 03, 2018, 02:18:31 pm
Dutch need to keep quiet and pay up. Anyone who disagrees with France and Germany re: the future of the EU is a nasty evil eurosceptic baddie.

Anyway, what do people think about Trump getting the Nobel Peace Prize? I think he's a buffoon and that political leaders should almost never get the award, but his Korea policy has thus far proven to be a massive success. He's far more deserving than Obama, who it seems to me won because he had a nice smile. He won't win because he's not left-wing but poll worthy question maybe?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 03, 2018, 03:16:01 pm
Do you have to make about 30 posts?
Good point my friend.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 03, 2018, 03:23:36 pm
Dutch need to keep quiet and pay up. Anyone who disagrees with France and Germany re: the future of the EU is a nasty evil eurosceptic baddie.

Anyway, what do people think about Trump getting the Nobel Peace Prize? I think he's a buffoon and that political leaders should almost never get the award, but his Korea policy has thus far proven to be a massive success. He's far more deserving than Obama, who it seems to me won because he had a nice smile. He won't win because he's not left-wing but poll worthy question maybe?
He won't win because he is not far left buth he also doesn't deserves to win it. One good deed doesn't erase bad ones, but he is better than Obama or Hillary would be. Also I think sucess of peace talks is due to mr Kim not Trump.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 03, 2018, 05:33:30 pm
Stop double posting or I will ban you.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 03, 2018, 05:47:19 pm
Stop double posting or I will ban you.
Terrorist

It is really hard not to double post on phone.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 03, 2018, 05:55:47 pm
No it’s not I’m using a phone right now
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 03, 2018, 05:59:29 pm
No it’s not I’m using a phone right now
It is and forum wont crash from double posts.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: fruitocino on May 03, 2018, 07:36:47 pm
Dutch need to keep quiet and pay up. Anyone who disagrees with France and Germany re: the future of the EU is a nasty evil eurosceptic baddie.

Anyway, what do people think about Trump getting the Nobel Peace Prize? I think he's a buffoon and that political leaders should almost never get the award, but his Korea policy has thus far proven to be a massive success. He's far more deserving than Obama, who it seems to me won because he had a nice smile. He won't win because he's not left-wing but poll worthy question maybe?
Obama got it for his drone warfare in Afghanistan, Trump has been a bit underwhelming in that department so far
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 03, 2018, 09:11:29 pm
Dutch need to keep quiet and pay up. Anyone who disagrees with France and Germany re: the future of the EU is a nasty evil eurosceptic baddie.

Anyway, what do people think about Trump getting the Nobel Peace Prize? I think he's a buffoon and that political leaders should almost never get the award, but his Korea policy has thus far proven to be a massive success. He's far more deserving than Obama, who it seems to me won because he had a nice smile. He won't win because he's not left-wing but poll worthy question maybe?

I don't think the Norwegian Nobel committee thinks threatening someone into submission is worthy of the prize, besides his actual contribution is questionable there was from my understanding many different factors that lead North Korea to want to negotiate like their dead/dying economy. If anything it should go to Moon Jae-in who did the actual negotiations.

Dutch need to keep quiet and pay up. Anyone who disagrees with France and Germany re: the future of the EU is a nasty evil eurosceptic baddie.

Anyway, what do people think about Trump getting the Nobel Peace Prize? I think he's a buffoon and that political leaders should almost never get the award, but his Korea policy has thus far proven to be a massive success. He's far more deserving than Obama, who it seems to me won because he had a nice smile. He won't win because he's not left-wing but poll worthy question maybe?
Obama got it for his drone warfare in Afghanistan, Trump has been a bit underwhelming in that department so far

Pretty sure one of their main reasons for giving it to Obama was the Iran deal.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on May 03, 2018, 09:24:08 pm
Dutch need to keep quiet and pay up. Anyone who disagrees with France and Germany re: the future of the EU is a nasty evil eurosceptic baddie.

Anyway, what do people think about Trump getting the Nobel Peace Prize? I think he's a buffoon and that political leaders should almost never get the award, but his Korea policy has thus far proven to be a massive success. He's far more deserving than Obama, who it seems to me won because he had a nice smile. He won't win because he's not left-wing but poll worthy question maybe?

I don't think the Norwegian Nobel committee thinks threatening someone into submission is worthy of the prize, besides his actual contribution is questionable there was from my understanding many different factors that lead North Korea to want to negotiate like their dead/dying economy. If anything it should go to Moon Jae-in who did the actual negotiations.

Dutch need to keep quiet and pay up. Anyone who disagrees with France and Germany re: the future of the EU is a nasty evil eurosceptic baddie.

Anyway, what do people think about Trump getting the Nobel Peace Prize? I think he's a buffoon and that political leaders should almost never get the award, but his Korea policy has thus far proven to be a massive success. He's far more deserving than Obama, who it seems to me won because he had a nice smile. He won't win because he's not left-wing but poll worthy question maybe?
Obama got it for his drone warfare in Afghanistan, Trump has been a bit underwhelming in that department so far

Pretty sure one of their main reasons for giving it to Obama was the Iran deal.

Or you could listen to Moon Jae-In instead?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-southkorea-trump/south-korea-president-says-trump-deserves-nobel-peace-prize-idUSKBN1I10OD
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 03, 2018, 10:13:30 pm
Huh, did not know he said that.
Either way I doubt the committee will give it to him, not because he doesn't deserve it but because he's to controversial. I could be wrong though.

I found it funny how he asked people on twitter where to house the meeting with North Korea though.
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/92fdfb9d8f43513e26109625d8076a02.png)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 03, 2018, 10:17:42 pm
Pretty sure one of their main reasons for giving it to Obama was the Iran deal.

I doubt that since the Iran deal was reached six years later. They actually gave no specific reason for Obama's award, which isn't surprising given he'd only been in office 9 months.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on May 03, 2018, 10:31:20 pm
When are we going to expand Europol? :/

EU is a joke at this point.

Kinda I'm hoping for some reforms once the UK actually leaves.
Yeah like trade blockade on UK.

reason?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 03, 2018, 11:40:08 pm
Pretty sure one of their main reasons for giving it to Obama was the Iran deal.

I doubt that since the Iran deal was reached six years later. They actually gave no specific reason for Obama's award, which isn't surprising given he'd only been in office 9 months.

Sorry I mixed up the year he got it, but here is their reasoning.

"The Norwegian Nobel Committee announced the award on October 9, 2009, citing Obama's promotion of nuclear nonproliferation and a "new climate" in international relations fostered by Obama, especially in reaching out to the Muslim world."

Not sure if he deserved it though.


Also another reason for Trump not to get the peace prize could be his handling of Iran which so far has been heavily criticized and lead to renewed hostilities.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 03, 2018, 11:58:19 pm
I dont really think the leader of the most warfighting state in the world should any kind of peace price....
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 04, 2018, 12:26:28 am
Not in every country. In the US draft once you’re inducted you can’t choose where they put you

Yes as soon as you're drafted into the military. What Duuring means is that you can object to yourself being called to the military. You can refuse service in the armed forces on ethical grounds.

After that you get two choices: instead of doing 1.5 years of service, or two years of alternative service, like in nursing homes, cleaning, hospitals, garbage services. You can choose what kind of alternative service you'd do yourself. It is either that, or 6 months incarceration.

At least, this was the Dutch system.

I remember when, for one reason or the other, conscription was being talked about somewhere in 2016 and I had a hard time convincing people that they actually couldn't just 'not go' and that it would constitute a crime for which you got jail time.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on May 04, 2018, 12:41:23 am
Conscription is good for making the potential military reserve, but this way is kinda outdated, as long as now you can build the proffesional army on volounteers basis. The proffesional army might cost more, but in question of quality is way better then conscripts-based with low number of volounteers.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 04, 2018, 01:54:40 am
I dont really think the leader of the most warfighting state in the world should any kind of peace price....

Yeah us Scandinavians should get it every year. (or the Swiss I guess.)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 04, 2018, 07:41:51 am
When are we going to expand Europol? :/

EU is a joke at this point.

Kinda I'm hoping for some reforms once the UK actually leaves.
Yeah like trade blockade on UK.

reason?
They left EU,  they wont contribute anything to the budget and wil expect to have free trade like they did before. Not how it works.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on May 04, 2018, 02:23:50 pm
When are we going to expand Europol? :/

EU is a joke at this point.

Kinda I'm hoping for some reforms once the UK actually leaves.
Yeah like trade blockade on UK.

reason?
They left EU,  they wont contribute anything to the budget and wil expect to have free trade like they did before. Not how it works.

Oh yeah, forgot Brussel is that stupid to actually do it. Anyway, I hope the UK is not the last country to leave the Union.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 04, 2018, 03:48:00 pm
Easy there. The UK is barely leaving.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 04, 2018, 07:38:50 pm
 Let's keep postponing it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 04, 2018, 08:38:45 pm
Brexit in 10 months and still we don't know fundemental aspects of our future relationship.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 04, 2018, 09:38:58 pm
When are we going to expand Europol? :/

EU is a joke at this point.

Kinda I'm hoping for some reforms once the UK actually leaves.
Yeah like trade blockade on UK.

reason?
They left EU,  they wont contribute anything to the budget and wil expect to have free trade like they did before. Not how it works.

Oh yeah, forgot Brussel is that stupid to actually do it. Anyway, I hope the UK is not the last country to leave the Union.
Who is next Romania?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on May 04, 2018, 11:00:12 pm
Yikes
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/02/luftwaffe-four-combat-ready-eurofighters-pressure-builds-weak/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/02/luftwaffe-four-combat-ready-eurofighters-pressure-builds-weak/)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 04, 2018, 11:07:33 pm
Yikes
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/02/luftwaffe-four-combat-ready-eurofighters-pressure-builds-weak/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/02/luftwaffe-four-combat-ready-eurofighters-pressure-builds-weak/)
Who needs army when you have economy and banks
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 04, 2018, 11:14:48 pm
Yikes
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/02/luftwaffe-four-combat-ready-eurofighters-pressure-builds-weak/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/02/luftwaffe-four-combat-ready-eurofighters-pressure-builds-weak/)
Who needs army when you have economy and banks

So the Deutsche Bank is going to ward off terrorists and eastern aggression now?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on May 04, 2018, 11:18:19 pm
Power resides where men believe it resides, and that is in the military. In order for Germany to be taken seriously it also has to project force. It's the reason we listen to the U.S. and not to Switzerland when it comes to foreign policy.

Just my two cents
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 04, 2018, 11:36:44 pm
Germany could have a military as small as that of Luxembourg, won't change the fact they run the European Union and have done for decades.

The Germans are pushing for an EU military to do the fighting for them. They see no problem with that so long as Berlin retains political control over it. Germany exerts its influence via soft power and is very good at doing so; France may strut around the globe as a nuclear power yet Obama always considered Merkel his primary partner.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on May 04, 2018, 11:40:07 pm
Power resides where men believe it resides, and that is in the military. In order for Germany to be taken seriously it also has to project force. It's the reason we listen to the U.S. and not to Switzerland when it comes to foreign policy.

Just my two cents
Our military being shit does matter why exactly? What do we need it for?

Besides that, as Steven pointed out I do believe there are bigger goals behind that incompetence
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 04, 2018, 11:47:44 pm
The Germans are pushing for an EU military to do the fighting for them.

I giggled.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 04, 2018, 11:51:15 pm
Yikes
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/02/luftwaffe-four-combat-ready-eurofighters-pressure-builds-weak/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/02/luftwaffe-four-combat-ready-eurofighters-pressure-builds-weak/)
Who needs army when you have economy and banks

So the Deutsche Bank is going to ward off terrorists and eastern aggression now?
For terrorists inside the Germany army is of little use,  and terrorist states that army could be useful against arw far away. What eastern invasion? Russia?

Power resides where men believe it resides, and that is in the military. In order for Germany to be taken seriously it also has to project force. It's the reason we listen to the U.S. and not to Switzerland when it comes to foreign policy.

Just my two cents
Power doesn't resides in military.

Germany doesn't needs own military, if Russia strikes them USA will save them. If European union is Holy Roman Empire than Germany is Habsburgs.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 04, 2018, 11:57:33 pm
Quote
For terrorists inside the Germany army is of little use,  and terrorist states that army could be useful against arw far away. What eastern invasion? Russia?

Yes, Russia, the country to our east that has been invading people.

Quote
Germany doesn't needs own military, if Russia strikes them USA will save them. If European union is Holy Roman Empire than Germany is Habsburgs.

Are you nine years old?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 12:03:01 am
Quote
For terrorists inside the Germany army is of little use,  and terrorist states that army could be useful against arw far away. What eastern invasion? Russia?

Yes, Russia, the country to our east that has been invading people
What the fuck is this.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 12:12:34 am
A security threat.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on May 05, 2018, 12:13:55 am
Mcpero making me agree with Duuring on things, frightening times indeed.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on May 05, 2018, 12:32:33 am
Quote
For terrorists inside the Germany army is of little use,  and terrorist states that army could be useful against arw far away. What eastern invasion? Russia?

Yes, Russia, the country to our east that has been invading people
What the fuck is this.
No, Russia is not invading anyone, right?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 12:34:47 am
Expecting a comment about the United States with absolutely no reference to Russia's actions in three, two, one...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 12:40:39 am
Expecting a comment about the United States with absolutely no reference to Russia's actions in three, two, one...
Hey they’re there to stop extremists from taking over!!!1!1!!!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 12:54:16 am
Remember kids, promoting seperatism within the Russian Federation means three years prison time, promoting seperatism towards it means a premiership, a medal and a meet-and-greet with Putin.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on May 05, 2018, 01:06:00 am
Remember kids, promoting seperatism within the Russian Federation means three years prison time, promoting seperatism towards it means a premiership, a medal and a meet-and-greet with Putin.
Providing free one-way tickets for separatism lovers and promoters. The meeting with the former DPR/LPR adepts is guaranteered. Bring friends = more fun.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: cheeseypants on May 05, 2018, 01:08:52 am
I <3 Donald Trump
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 05, 2018, 01:23:48 am
I <3 Donald Trump

(https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/566c9fde65dbbdab32ec053e/1x)(https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/55b6f480e66682f576dd94f5/1x)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 05, 2018, 01:34:49 am
The Germans are pushing for an EU military to do the fighting for them.

I giggled.

Giggle all you like, but that's actually what is happening:
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/22/germany-is-quietly-building-a-european-army-under-its-command/

Quote
But under the bland label of the Framework Nations Concept, Germany has been at work on something far more ambitious — the creation of what is essentially a Bundeswehr-led network of European miniarmies. “The initiative came out of the weakness of the Bundeswehr,” said Justyna Gotkowska, a Northern Europe security analyst at Poland’s Centre for Eastern Studies think tank. “The Germans realized that the Bundeswehr needed to fill gaps in its land forces … in order to gain political and military influence within NATO.” An assist from junior partners may be Germany’s best shot at bulking out its military quickly — and German-led miniarmies may be Europe’s most realistic option if it’s to get serious about joint security. “It’s an attempt to prevent joint European security from completely failing,” Masala said.

...

Romania’s entire military won’t join the Bundeswehr, nor will the Czech armed forces become a mere German subdivision. But in the next several months each country will integrate one brigade into the German armed forces: Romania’s 81st Mechanized Brigade will join the Bundeswehr’s Rapid Response Forces Division, while the Czech 4th Rapid Deployment Brigade, which has served in Afghanistan and Kosovo and is considered the Czech Army’s spearhead force, will become part of the Germans’ 10th Armored Division. In doing so, they’ll follow in the footsteps of two Dutch brigades, one of which has already joined the Bundeswehr’s Rapid Response Forces Division and another that has been integrated into the Bundeswehr’s 1st Armored Division.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 01:46:00 am
It might sound radical but I support the idea of joint security if it’s properly controlled by all of the contributors instead of a single one. There will come a time when Europe won’t be able to rely on the US and we need to look to ourselves to defend each other. Closer bonds and connections only serve to maintain the longest relative peace the continent has ever seen.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 02:09:47 am
Remember kids, promoting seperatism within the Russian Federation means three years prison time, promoting seperatism towards it means a premiership, a medal and a meet-and-greet with Putin.
Well, the conquering of the Crimea was a strategic move, since the pro-american ukrainian president Piotr Poroshenko was planning to let the NATO’s build a base there. You don’t need to be into the politics to understand the simple fact - No one needs destabilization in that region. Please don’r forget the Crimea Autonomy had and has a right to choose their own way of the development. They made a choice, under ~90% voted for the reunification with Russia.
Pre-history of the Ukrainian local conflict:
Everything was good until Piotr issued a law about “restriction of the russian language”. After the idiotic law was half-accepted few regions which were ~80% russian-talking resisted it and defended a right to speak the language of their ancestors.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 02:12:35 am
Ah I see, Russia started a war to prevent the region from becoming destabilised.

Makes sense
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 02:22:36 am
Read again and answer the question - Who has started the fighting operations firstly? Don’t bother yourself, i’ll help you - Ukraine, in the face of «antiterrorist operation». Underline the fact that “Ukrainian army” which participated in AO was made mostly of the fascist-direction gangs, here are the few examples:
The right sector(Pravy sector), even the flag of them consists of the old colors which were used by nazi’s ukranian “militia” during the WWII. The same with ideology.
Spoiler
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Flag_of_%22Right_Sector%22.png/1200px-Flag_of_%22Right_Sector%22.png)
[close]
Battalion Azov - no comments
Spoiler
(https://pp.vk.me/c604822/v604822782/288fd/Dh8hdyh3epc.jpg)
[close]
Battalion OUN
Spoiler
(https://kor.ill.in.ua/m/610x385/1568589.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 02:28:35 am
I’m not trying to be funny but I can’t really understand what you just typed due to the poor grammar so I’ll just make this point; Russia intervened in the Ukraine without UN backing, sending in troops wearing no insignia and denying their involvement. If they thought that they were in the right then why would they not take their issues to the peacekeeping council of the world? Russia sent troops to the Ukraine because they knew that the democratically elected government were becoming more pro-NATO and EU.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 05, 2018, 02:36:44 am
It might sound radical but I support the idea of joint security if it’s properly controlled by all of the contributors instead of a single one. There will come a time when Europe won’t be able to rely on the US and we need to look to ourselves to defend each other. Closer bonds and connections only serve to maintain the longest relative peace the continent has ever seen.

Longest peace? Only if you ignore Ukraine or the Balkans, plus Soviet military activity in Hungary/Czechoslovakia/etc.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on May 05, 2018, 02:37:53 am
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fukrainianpolicy.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F03%2Fanti-fascist-ukrainianssarah2.jpg&hash=8995472e92e6273f0fbbc84d6a2a643a1816d9f6)

(https://www.mintpressnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Russia-Ukraine-Phone-_Mill.jpg)

better to be a national socialist than to be red commie scum, better dead than red even.
 8)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 02:45:47 am
Let’s be fair, the ukrainian revolution was sponsored by West&Co. Russia has no any interest to be in conflict with the neighbor because of many logical reasons no need to explain.

Tell me please, what’s the profit of another orange revolution for the people? Another market place of cheap and low-quality products from Europe which totally destroyed the competitive ability of the local goods? New level of the corruption? An uncontrollable army consists of the legal bandits? Problem regions and loss of the Crimea? Debts to the whole world and the inability to pay even for gas and electricity?

Destabilization occurred because of a revolution that the people of Ukraine didn’t need. The rest shit has run out of inertia.


My father was in Kiev few days ago. The situation is really awful.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 02:50:18 am
I’m not trying to be funny but I can’t really understand what you just typed due to the poor grammar so I’ll just make this point; Russia intervened in the Ukraine without UN backing, sending in troops wearing no insignia and denying their involvement. If they thought that they were in the right then why would they not take their issues to the peacekeeping council of the world? Russia sent troops to the Ukraine because they knew that the democratically elected government were becoming more pro-NATO and EU.
Can you prove the intervention? Before the Crimea conflicts started, there was a Russian Naval Base with 5 000 soldiers in it. Democratically elected? Mate, the government was occupied by bandits and freaks during the West&Co sponsored revolution , to understand this you need to see their speeches.
About the grammar - Yes, maybe since i’m speaking the russian-english, pardon please.
You told me
Ah I see, Russia started a war to prevent the region from becoming destabilised.

Makes sense

I’m not sure if this sarcasm or not but I asked you about the people who started the “war-zone” there.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 02:57:13 am
Steven you will note the use of the word ‘relative’. Europe is quite peaceful if you look at the previous centuries.

Council you said that Russia intervened because nobody needs destabilisation. Yet participating in wars tend to increase instability. You said that crimea had a choice even though Russia moved troops into the region before the vote took place. If you think that is democracy then you probably think Anschluss was perfectly reasonable. You also slipped up with your rhetoric by using the word “conquering”.

You also say that the revolution was western-sponsored but provide no evidence for that accusation and seem to just pander to the entire anti west, Russia can do no wrong propaganda train that Putin has rolling.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 03:01:28 am
Steven you will note the use of the word ‘relative’. Europe is quite peaceful if you look at the previous centuries.

Council you said that Russia intervened because nobody needs destabilisation. Yet participating in wars tend to increase instability. You said that crimea had a choice even though Russia moved troops into the region before the vote took place. If you think that is democracy then you probably think Anschluss was perfectly reasonable. You also slipped up with your rhetoric by using the word “conquering”.

You also say that the revolution was western-sponsored but provide no evidence for that accusation and seem to just pander to the entire anti west, Russia can do no wrong propaganda train that Putin has rolling.
Can you prove the intervention? Before the Crimea conflicts started, there was a Russian Naval Base with 5 000 soldiers in it. Democratically elected? Mate, the government was occupied by bandits and freaks during the West&Co sponsored revolution , to understand this you need to see their speeches.
What war are you talking about? The war started after the Crimea question.
The fact of the sponsoring doesn’t need any evidence since the West&Co are still openely giving the money and etc.
Spoiler
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/12/22/lethal-weapons-ukraine/978538001/
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/11/21/fact-sheet-us-assistance-ukraine
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 03:12:08 am
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fukrainianpolicy.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F03%2Fanti-fascist-ukrainianssarah2.jpg&hash=8995472e92e6273f0fbbc84d6a2a643a1816d9f6)

(https://www.mintpressnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Russia-Ukraine-Phone-_Mill.jpg)

better to be a national socialist than to be red commie scum, better dead than red even.
 8)
I’ve heard something same
Spoiler
(https://static.businessinsider.com/image/5552a5016da811b922c61268/image.jpg)
[close]
He ended bad.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 03:14:48 am
I can prove the intervention because it’s a readily admitted fact if you read these two sources
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_green_men_(Ukrainian_crisis)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine_(2014–present)
In the first link it even says that Putin admitted that special forces had been involved.

Russian troops were also in the Ukraine before the referendum was held.

The fact that you refuse to give evidence for the revolution being western controlled means that you don’t have any. Just because the west sponsor the current Ukrainian government that doesn’t mean that there is evidence of foul play previously. Of course he US would want to arm their allies which have had their sovereignty threatened.

You really do fall for everything that Putin tells you. Must be hard to admit that the government you devote yourself to is a charade.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 03:24:56 am
I can prove the intervention because it’s a readily admitted fact if you read these two sources
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_green_men_(Ukrainian_crisis)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine_(2014–present)
In the first link it even says that Putin admitted that special forces had been involved.

Russian troops were also in the Ukraine before the referendum was held.

The fact that you refuse to give evidence for the revolution being western controlled means that you don’t have any. Just because the west sponsor the current Ukrainian government that doesn’t mean that there is evidence of foul play previously. Of course he US would want to arm their allies which have had their sovereignty threatened.

You really do fall for everything that Putin tells you. Must be hard to admit that the government you devote yourself to is a charade.
Both links doesn’t work.
Ofcource the troopers were there, i told there was and there’s a Russian Navy Base in Crimea.
In that case it’s normal the russian troopers were there, they didn’t hurt anyone. By they way, I’ve read the number of the russian troopers and I found there were 16 000 of them.
The third link in my previous post answers about the evidence.
I don’t appreciate Putin, what a drama) I’m just saying the war and first blood were started by ukrainians.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 03:29:56 am
GVe a good night
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 03:34:46 am
The direct links don’t work but the page offers to direct you to the right ones anyway.

There may have been a naval base there but that’s irrelevant if you know that the Russians took control of key locations before the referendum was called. You would know that if you had read anything about the topic instead of just repeating the same old lines.

You must be joking now because the article you linked argues that the US didn’t fund the revolution. You must be desperately trying to find any headline that supports your argument. It says that the money was spent on various different democracy funding and aid being sent to Ukraine to help development and shows that the figure given by the accuser is pretty dubious.

Russia took control of the Crimea illegally and took advantage of a country in crisis. Yes that’s been done by the west many a team and they’ve received their due criticism, as should Russia.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 05, 2018, 04:27:51 am
Longest period of relative peace in Europe was the 19th century if you're looking at the continent as a whole, not just its North-Western portion.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 04:37:45 am
Longest period of relative peace in Europe was the 19th century if you're looking at the continent as a whole, not just its North-Western portion.
Technicalities. Europe has been very peaceful in contrast to the majority of the past, agree? We haven’t had a war between two major European powers for 70+ years. The 19th century saw the Napoleonic Wars which raged for more than a decade and a half as well as the Crimean war and the Franco-Prussian war. Sure there has been conflict in certain regions but considering the destruction that previous wars have brought such as WW2, we’re not doing so bad
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 05, 2018, 08:55:03 am
Russia sucks and should burn in hell.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Prince_Eugen on May 05, 2018, 09:33:57 am
So funny to see how russian is trying to call Ukraine an agreessor when they started an operation to clear the separatists in their own country. Russia believes they're supreme law in a region, so they must order other countries in CIS what they have to do, funny. From the start of ATO it's our own business, there wouldnt be anything if Russia havent sent people to kill our citizens. If russian comes to my land and starts talking shit and supporting the separatism - he's a criminal! If he starts killing citizens, soldiers and policemen, he must die or sentenced to serious punishment for his deeds. And the only argument since 2014 among russians is that we're all fascist, while it's them, who came to our country with weapons.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on May 05, 2018, 10:14:40 am
Russia sucks and should burn in hell.

Of course the person whose nazi grandfather was captured by the Soviets would say that ::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 10:44:32 am
Remember kids, promoting seperatism within the Russian Federation means three years prison time, promoting seperatism towards it means a premiership, a medal and a meet-and-greet with Putin.
Well, the conquering of the Crimea was a strategic move, since the pro-american ukrainian president Piotr Poroshenko was planning to let the NATO’s build a base there. You don’t need to be into the politics to understand the simple fact - No one needs destabilization in that region. Please don’r forget the Crimea Autonomy had and has a right to choose their own way of the development. They made a choice, under ~90% voted for the reunification with Russia.
Pre-history of the Ukrainian local conflict:
Everything was good until Piotr issued a law about “restriction of the russian language”. After the idiotic law was half-accepted few regions which were ~80% russian-talking resisted it and defended a right to speak the language of their ancestors.

Like, absolutely none of this is correct and you get names, facts and even timeline wrong. There has never been a law about restricting the Russian language.

Mate, the government was occupied by bandits and freaks during the West&Co sponsored revolution , to understand this you need to see their speeches.

Also not true. The previous cabinet resigned and the parliament elected a new one which had majority support. Even if you disagree with the way the presidency was handled, the fall of the cabinet was perfectly democratic and constitutional.

Quote
My father was in Kiev few days ago. The situation is really awful.

Let me guess. Nazi militia's roaming the streets to slit the throat of anyone who dares to utter a word of Russian?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 12:29:57 pm
Quote
For terrorists inside the Germany army is of little use,  and terrorist states that army could be useful against arw far away. What eastern invasion? Russia?

Yes, Russia, the country to our east that has been invading people.

Quote
Germany doesn't needs own military, if Russia strikes them USA will save them. If European union is Holy Roman Empire than Germany is Habsburgs.

Are you nine years old?

Last time 'Russia' was threat to Europe it was in WWII. After that Soviet Union would be able to invade Europe and take if it wasn't for USA having nukes. But as the time went on Soviet Union became weaker and weaker compared to USA and USA military was exaggerating Soviet power so they would get more and more funds, but in reality there was never balance of power, USA always had big advantage. In case of nuclear war Soviet union would have done a lot less damage to USA even USA has nicely packed mega cities while Russia is more decentralized from that point of view. Only advantage Russia/Soviets always had was more cost efficient equipment, devices, ect. ... because they were forced into that, US military isn't. The reason new technologies are usually first used in military is not because military would be most important but because military usually has the army and builds devices no matter the cost of production, because you will never make profit from a bomb exploding so you can't evaluate it's 'selling price' (unless you get some resource from winning some war, which usually is not the case).

Only 'invasion' Russia did since WW2 into Europe was Ukraine because they were trying to join NATO (at least half of the country did). Imagine today Mexico decides to join into alliance with Russia and let's Russia build military bases there I bet we would see no violence there ...

So no Europe is in no danger from the Russia. Only threat is USA which basically has Europe occupied since 1945.

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiCz6NpR.jpg&hash=c16104e3cac7b925a4afff296f48624e21ba5896)

And before you start saying 'whataboutism', we are talking about why Germany (doesn't) need military not about Russia invading Ukraine, so I can talk about USA all i want.

No I'm 10.

Longest period of relative peace in Europe was the 19th century if you're looking at the continent as a whole, not just its North-Western portion.
Technicalities. Europe has been very peaceful in contrast to the majority of the past, agree? We haven’t had a war between two major European powers for 70+ years. The 19th century saw the Napoleonic Wars which raged for more than a decade and a half as well as the Crimean war and the Franco-Prussian war. Sure there has been conflict in certain regions but considering the destruction that previous wars have brought such as WW2, we’re not doing so bad
Europe has never been so peaceful as it is since 1945 until now. Only time period Europe might have been more peaceful was inside Roman Empire for some time. Middle ages were basically constant wars among nobles, religions, hordes. New age from 1492-1815 was also constant wars. After Napoleon you got bunch of revolutions, formation of Italy and Germany, Crimean war, Balkan Wars, Bismarck's march on Paris in 1871. Even if there wasn't as much war in Europe, European countries were involved in wars around the Globe which effect's European population. It is true though these few wars since 1945 were pretty brutal compared to wars in middle ages and new age.

Russia took control of the Crimea illegally and took advantage of a country in crisis. Yes that’s been done by the west many a team and they’ve received their due criticism, as should Russia.
West received criticism by some people, but that was basically all it happened. On the other hand you have media that defends western illegal actions and is heavily biased with information (not saying Russian media is any better). While Russia is criticized by most of the media and get sanctions and actual punishment. So yes let's criticize Russia a bit more and keep ignoring fact west get's away with most of illegal stuff, that makes a lot of sense.

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz20lu2AM2k
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 05, 2018, 12:51:15 pm
I would support an invasion of a country that wants to join into an alliance with Russia.

There is only one good thing about Russia. Their 3D Artists are cheap.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 12:53:00 pm
Russia sucks and should burn in hell.
Welcome to the suicide club.
Spoiler
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg/267px-YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg)
(https://historytime.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BD.jpg)
(https://24smi.org/public/media/2017/8/8/01_wvA6hQ7.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 12:54:24 pm
Russia sucks and should burn in hell.
Welcome to the suicide club.
Spoiler
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg/267px-YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg)
(https://historytime.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BD.jpg)
(https://24smi.org/public/media/2017/8/8/01_wvA6hQ7.jpg)
[close]
When did Russia beat Yuan Emperor of China a.k.a. Gengis Khan? As far as I know they allied him.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 01:05:07 pm
Remember kids, promoting seperatism within the Russian Federation means three years prison time, promoting seperatism towards it means a premiership, a medal and a meet-and-greet with Putin.
Well, the conquering of the Crimea was a strategic move, since the pro-american ukrainian president Piotr Poroshenko was planning to let the NATO’s build a base there. You don’t need to be into the politics to understand the simple fact - No one needs destabilization in that region. Please don’r forget the Crimea Autonomy had and has a right to choose their own way of the development. They made a choice, under ~90% voted for the reunification with Russia.
Pre-history of the Ukrainian local conflict:
Everything was good until Piotr issued a law about “restriction of the russian language”. After the idiotic law was half-accepted few regions which were ~80% russian-talking resisted it and defended a right to speak the language of their ancestors.

Like, absolutely none of this is correct and you get names, facts and even timeline wrong. There has never been a law about restricting the Russian language.

Mate, the government was occupied by bandits and freaks during the West&Co sponsored revolution , to understand this you need to see their speeches.

Also not true. The previous cabinet resigned and the parliament elected a new one which had majority support. Even if you disagree with the way the presidency was handled, the fall of the cabinet was perfectly democratic and constitutional.

Quote
My father was in Kiev few days ago. The situation is really awful.

Let me guess. Nazi militia's roaming the streets to slit the throat of anyone who dares to utter a word of Russian?
Mate, i feel really bad about you not knowing the basis facts about the Russian-Ukrainian conflict but trying to argue. I see right to a tea bullshit from the BBC, you better ask the ukrainians about it.
If you want so, PM me, I will send you the teamspeak.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 01:10:37 pm
Russia sucks and should burn in hell.
Welcome to the suicide club.
Spoiler
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg/267px-YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg)
(https://historytime.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BD.jpg)
(https://24smi.org/public/media/2017/8/8/01_wvA6hQ7.jpg)
[close]
When did Russia beat Yuan Emperor of China a.k.a. Gengis Khan? As far as I know they allied him.
Literally no one here were killed by russians.
Gengis Khan(Temuchzhin) was a Khan of the Great Mongolian Empire. You are talking about his grandson Hoobilai
Spoiler
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/YuanEmperorAlbumKhubilaiPortrait.jpg/1200px-YuanEmperorAlbumKhubilaiPortrait.jpg)
[close]
They were drawn the same way.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 05, 2018, 01:14:02 pm
I am not suggesting to invade Russia. All I am saying is that Russia is garbage.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 01:17:44 pm
Quote
For terrorists inside the Germany army is of little use,  and terrorist states that army could be useful against arw far away. What eastern invasion? Russia?

Yes, Russia, the country to our east that has been invading people.

Quote
Germany doesn't needs own military, if Russia strikes them USA will save them. If European union is Holy Roman Empire than Germany is Habsburgs.

Are you nine years old?

Last time 'Russia' was threat to Europe it was in WWII. After that Soviet Union would be able to invade Europe and take if it wasn't for USA having nukes. But as the time went on Soviet Union became weaker and weaker compared to USA and USA military was exaggerating Soviet power so they would get more and more funds, but in reality there was never balance of power, USA always had big advantage. In case of nuclear war Soviet union would have done a lot less damage to USA even USA has nicely packed mega cities while Russia is more decentralized from that point of view. Only advantage Russia/Soviets always had was more cost efficient equipment, devices, ect. ... because they were forced into that, US military isn't. The reason new technologies are usually first used in military is not because military would be most important but because military usually has the army and builds devices no matter the cost of production, because you will never make profit from a bomb exploding so you can't evaluate it's 'selling price' (unless you get some resource from winning some war, which usually is not the case).

Only 'invasion' Russia did since WW2 into Europe was Ukraine because they were trying to join NATO (at least half of the country did). Imagine today Mexico decides to join into alliance with Russia and let's Russia build military bases there I bet we would see no violence there ...

So no Europe is in no danger from the Russia. Only threat is USA which basically has Europe occupied since 1945.

(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiCz6NpR.jpg&hash=c16104e3cac7b925a4afff296f48624e21ba5896)

And before you start saying 'whataboutism', we are talking about why Germany (doesn't) need military not about Russia invading Ukraine, so I can talk about USA all i want.

No I'm 10.

Longest period of relative peace in Europe was the 19th century if you're looking at the continent as a whole, not just its North-Western portion.
Technicalities. Europe has been very peaceful in contrast to the majority of the past, agree? We haven’t had a war between two major European powers for 70+ years. The 19th century saw the Napoleonic Wars which raged for more than a decade and a half as well as the Crimean war and the Franco-Prussian war. Sure there has been conflict in certain regions but considering the destruction that previous wars have brought such as WW2, we’re not doing so bad
Europe has never been so peaceful as it is since 1945 until now. Only time period Europe might have been more peaceful was inside Roman Empire for some time. Middle ages were basically constant wars among nobles, religions, hordes. New age from 1492-1815 was also constant wars. After Napoleon you got bunch of revolutions, formation of Italy and Germany, Crimean war, Balkan Wars, Bismarck's march on Paris in 1871. Even if there wasn't as much war in Europe, European countries were involved in wars around the Globe which effect's European population. It is true though these few wars since 1945 were pretty brutal compared to wars in middle ages and new age.

Russia took control of the Crimea illegally and took advantage of a country in crisis. Yes that’s been done by the west many a team and they’ve received their due criticism, as should Russia.
West received criticism by some people, but that was basically all it happened. On the other hand you have media that defends western illegal actions and is heavily biased with information (not saying Russian media is any better). While Russia is criticized by most of the media and get sanctions and actual punishment. So yes let's criticize Russia a bit more and keep ignoring fact west get's away with most of illegal stuff, that makes a lot of sense.

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz20lu2AM2k
[close]
Holy fuck, McPero, I agree with you in all fronts. Thanks for the explanation.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 01:19:16 pm
I am not suggesting to invade Russia. All I am saying is that Russia is garbage.
You said “Russia sucks and should burn in hell.”
Mate, you are a disgusting prick.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 01:20:48 pm
Russia sucks and should burn in hell.
Welcome to the suicide club.
Spoiler
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg/267px-YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg)
(https://historytime.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BD.jpg)
(https://24smi.org/public/media/2017/8/8/01_wvA6hQ7.jpg)
[close]
When did Russia beat Yuan Emperor of China a.k.a. Gengis Khan? As far as I know they allied him.
Literally no one here were killed by russians.
Gengis Khan(Temuchzhin) was a Khan of the Great Mongolian Empire. You are talking about his grandson Hoobilai
Spoiler
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/YuanEmperorAlbumKhubilaiPortrait.jpg/1200px-YuanEmperorAlbumKhubilaiPortrait.jpg)
[close]
They were drawn the same way.
I mean Genghis was also emperor of China. And 0.5% of world's population has his genes.

I am not suggesting to invade Russia. All I am saying is that Russia is garbage.
Why is it garbage?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 01:31:43 pm
For the future disscussion.
Quote
1)West received criticism by some people, but that was basically all it happened. On the other hand you have media that defends western illegal actions and is heavily biased with information (not saying Russian media is any better). While Russia is criticized by most of the media and get sanctions and actual punishment. So yes let's criticize Russia a bit more and keep ignoring fact west get's away with most of illegal stuff, that makes a lot of sense.

Quote
2)Only 'invasion' Russia did since WW2 into Europe was Ukraine because they were trying to join NATO (at least half of the country did). Imagine today Mexico decides to join into alliance with Russia and let's Russia build military bases there I bet we would see no violence there ...

So no Europe is in no danger from the Russia. Only threat is USA which basically has Europe occupied since 1945.



Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 01:36:18 pm
Russia sucks and should burn in hell.
Welcome to the suicide club.
Spoiler
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg/267px-YuanEmperorAlbumGenghisPortrait.jpg)
(https://historytime.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BD.jpg)
(https://24smi.org/public/media/2017/8/8/01_wvA6hQ7.jpg)
[close]
When did Russia beat Yuan Emperor of China a.k.a. Gengis Khan? As far as I know they allied him.
Literally no one here were killed by russians.
Gengis Khan(Temuchzhin) was a Khan of the Great Mongolian Empire. You are talking about his grandson Hoobilai
Spoiler
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/YuanEmperorAlbumKhubilaiPortrait.jpg/1200px-YuanEmperorAlbumKhubilaiPortrait.jpg)
[close]
They were drawn the same way.
I mean Genghis was also emperor of China. And 1% of world's population has his genes.

I am not suggesting to invade Russia. All I am saying is that Russia is garbage.
Why is it garbage?
Was he?
Btw I personally have the Chingis Khan DNA, my old-old ancestors were from Mongolia. For example - my grandpa - Al Mashani
Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rembi.ru%2Fimages%2Fmashanov.jpg&hash=961590044822197766e1325c7836f6438ca8dfd2)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 05, 2018, 01:46:18 pm
It's Russia. Obviously it is garbage. It is a "ex"-soviet country... There is no way it could not be garbage.

I am sorry (not), but I am biased towards hating communism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 01:47:18 pm
Mate, i feel really bad about you not knowing the basis facts about the Russian-Ukrainian conflict but trying to argue. I see right to a tea bullshit from the BBC, you better ask the ukrainians about it.
If you want so, PM me, I will send you the teamspeak.

I visited Ukraine two times, I have dozens of Ukrainian friends, I did volunteer work with Ukrainian children from Donetsk and Luhansk Regions and I have a (Russian-speaking) Ukrainian boyfriend. But don't you worry, I'll ask them.

Quote
1)West received criticism by some people, but that was basically all it happened. On the other hand you have media that defends western illegal actions and is heavily biased with information (not saying Russian media is any better). While Russia is criticized by most of the media and get sanctions and actual punishment. So yes let's criticize Russia a bit more and keep ignoring fact west get's away with most of illegal stuff, that makes a lot of sense.

Whataboutism.

Quote
Imagine today Mexico decides to join into alliance with Russia and let's Russia build military bases there I bet we would see no violence there ...

But Mexico doesn't want to join an alliance with Russia because Russia is a shit country with the economy per capita of Greece. Russia (and apparantly Russians) are utterly incapable of seeing other post-soviet states as independent, soevereign nations. They seem to think Russia, and Russia alone, has some solid right to interfere. And worst, they seem to think that everybody thinks that way. That the world is some pie you can divide, and that Russia somehow is equal to the United States in power and influence.

The only thing Russia has to offer is war, instability and threats. That's why it invades countries; there is no other way it can control its minion states other then wreck them as they try assert their independence. It's no use debating this with Russians, because they always think the same way: First they deny, and then, when evidence becomes too overwhelming, they just say (and honestly believe) it's their right. Russia could literally nuke Kyiv tomorrow, killing millions of its Russian-speaking inhabitans, and still you would somehow think this is acceptable behavior because 'that's just how the world works'. Seriously, how many people need to die before you people will learn?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 05, 2018, 01:54:30 pm
Longest period of relative peace in Europe was the 19th century if you're looking at the continent as a whole, not just its North-Western portion.
Technicalities. Europe has been very peaceful in contrast to the majority of the past, agree? We haven’t had a war between two major European powers for 70+ years. The 19th century saw the Napoleonic Wars which raged for more than a decade and a half as well as the Crimean war and the Franco-Prussian war. Sure there has been conflict in certain regions but considering the destruction that previous wars have brought such as WW2, we’re not doing so bad

You don't need a war between major powers to see high death rates and if you try and start back from post-1945 it doesn't really work given Greek Civil War, Algeria, Yugoslav Wars, etc. Really depends on how you want to define your period re: dates.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 01:55:55 pm
Mate, i feel really bad about you not knowing the basis facts about the Russian-Ukrainian conflict but trying to argue. I see right to a tea bullshit from the BBC, you better ask the ukrainians about it.
If you want so, PM me, I will send you the teamspeak.

I visited Ukraine two times, I have dozens of Ukrainian friends, I did volunteer work with Ukrainian children from Donetsk and Luhansk Regions and I have a (Russian-speaking) Ukrainian boyfriend. But don't you worry, I'll ask them.

Quote
1)West received criticism by some people, but that was basically all it happened. On the other hand you have media that defends western illegal actions and is heavily biased with information (not saying Russian media is any better). While Russia is criticized by most of the media and get sanctions and actual punishment. So yes let's criticize Russia a bit more and keep ignoring fact west get's away with most of illegal stuff, that makes a lot of sense.

Whataboutism.

Quote
Imagine today Mexico decides to join into alliance with Russia and let's Russia build military bases there I bet we would see no violence there ...

But Mexico doesn't want to join an alliance with Russia because Russia is a shit country with the economy per capita of Greece. Russia (and apparantly Russians) are utterly incapable of seeing other post-soviet states as independent, soevereign nations. They seem to think Russia, and Russia alone, has some solid right to interfere. And worst, they seem to think that everybody thinks that way. That the world is some pie you can divide, and that Russia somehow is equal to the United States in power and influence.

The only thing Russia has to offer is war, instability and threats. That's why it invades countries; there is no other way it can control its minion states other then wreck them as they try assert their independence. It's no use debating this with Russians, because they always think the same way: First they deny, and then, when evidence becomes too overwhelming, they just say (and honestly believe) it's their right. Russia could literally nuke Kyiv tomorrow, killing millions of its Russian-speaking inhabitans, and still you would somehow think this is acceptable behavior because 'that's just how the world works'. Seriously, how many people need to die before you people will learn?
A whataboutism person’s talking about the whataboutism, haha.
Is it for real that you have a ukrainian boyfriend?
What’s about the volunteer’s work? Which organization?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 01:57:19 pm
It's Russia. Obviously it is garbage. It is a "ex"-soviet country... There is no way it could not be garbage.

I am sorry (not), but I am biased towards hating communism.
No one cares about communism, it’s dead.
You’ve said shit about Russia, that we should burn in hell.
Mate, as I told you before - you are a disgusting prick.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 01:58:46 pm
Quote
Is it for real that you have a ukrainian boyfriend?

Yes?

Quote
What’s about the volunteer’s work? Which organization?

GoCamp East.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 05, 2018, 02:37:29 pm
It's Russia. Obviously it is garbage. It is a "ex"-soviet country... There is no way it could not be garbage.

I am sorry (not), but I am biased towards hating communism.
No one cares about communism, it’s dead.
You’ve said shit about Russia, that we should burn in hell.
Mate, as I told you before - you are a disgusting prick.

Kinda dead, but not really. Doesn't change the fact that unless Russia sees a ginormous change in their politics, it is going to remain a shithole.
And no, I did not say that Russians should burn in hell, I said, Russia. The political construct.
It is not the fault of the average Russian citizen that his country is garbage. It is the fault of the select few and their supporters.
I also can not really blame anyone living in Russia on defending Russia, since that is to be expected. It is not like they got any other choice. (At least not, if they want to survive unharmed)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 02:38:51 pm
I love how council could do nothing to refute the fact that his sources even disagreed with him
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 02:56:20 pm
It's Russia. Obviously it is garbage. It is a "ex"-soviet country... There is no way it could not be garbage.

I am sorry (not), but I am biased towards hating communism.
No one cares about communism, it’s dead.
You’ve said shit about Russia, that we should burn in hell.
Mate, as I told you before - you are a disgusting prick.

Kinda dead, but not really. Doesn't change the fact that unless Russia sees a ginormous change in their politics, it is going to remain a shithole.
And no, I did not say that Russians should burn in hell, I said, Russia. The political construct.
It is not the fault of the average Russian citizen that his country is garbage. It is the fault of the select few and their supporters.
I also can not really blame anyone living in Russia on defending Russia, since that is to be expected. It is not like they got any other choice. (At least not, if they want to survive unharmed)
Russia is not only the politics, it’s the Motherland for the people living in it. You said Russia without any refinement. Don’t try to excuse yourself. And you are the FSE developer, what a shame.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 03:06:34 pm
I love how council could do nothing to refute the fact that his sources even disagreed with him
Will back to you later
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 03:09:18 pm
I love how council could do nothing to refute the fact that his sources even disagreed with him
Will back to you later
You’ll get back to me later? So you don’t have any evidence readily available? Most people make statements that they can already back up.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 03:14:16 pm
I love how council could do nothing to refute the fact that his sources even disagreed with him
Will back to you later
You’ll get back to me later? So you don’t have any evidence readily available? Most people make statements that they can already back up.
I don’t want to spend energy telling to nonames from the internet pure facts anymore.
So you are saying I have no evidence about the West&Co sponsoring, but you have no evidence about the greenmen belonging to Russia. Although, you have no any proofs about their actions there. So what? Should I tell you the resources are disagreed with you too?
Here’s a way I don’t want to continue this useless dialog.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 05, 2018, 03:19:15 pm
Okay cool see ya.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 03:38:14 pm
Whataboutism.
Yeah could you stop using it Mr Duuring?

But Mexico doesn't want to join an alliance with Russia because Russia is a shit country with the economy per capita of Greece. Russia (and apparAntly Russians) are utterly incapable of seeing other post-soviet states as independent, soEvereign nations. They seem to think Russia, and Russia alone, has some solid right to interfere. And worst, they seem to think that everybody thinks that way. That the world is some pie you can divide, and that Russia somehow is equal to the United States in power and influence.
Exactly Russia is weak and in no position to be rivaling USA dominance. Yet somehow you claim it is threat to European union, a state with Greek economy per capita? As far as I can see Russia is interfering and invading neighboring countries that USA want's to build military bases in, because Russia is scared of NATO. Russia feels so threatened that they invade countries at cost of making own economy Greece 2.0, so Putin is retarded or something? No he has a reason to be scared when you look at what USA is doing. It seems like you don't believe in sovereignty of countries/nations but rather in global USA empire.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 05, 2018, 03:38:53 pm
It's Russia. Obviously it is garbage. It is a "ex"-soviet country... There is no way it could not be garbage.

I am sorry (not), but I am biased towards hating communism.
No one cares about communism, it’s dead.
You’ve said shit about Russia, that we should burn in hell.
Mate, as I told you before - you are a disgusting prick.

Kinda dead, but not really. Doesn't change the fact that unless Russia sees a ginormous change in their politics, it is going to remain a shithole.
And no, I did not say that Russians should burn in hell, I said, Russia. The political construct.
It is not the fault of the average Russian citizen that his country is garbage. It is the fault of the select few and their supporters.
I also can not really blame anyone living in Russia on defending Russia, since that is to be expected. It is not like they got any other choice. (At least not, if they want to survive unharmed)
Russia is not only the politics, it’s the Motherland for the people living in it. You said Russia without any refinement. Don’t try to excuse yourself. And you are the FSE developer, what a shame.

One of the FSE Devs is Ukranian, wanna know how much he hates Russia?

Whataboutism.
Yeah could you stop using it Mr Duuring?

But Mexico doesn't want to join an alliance with Russia because Russia is a shit country with the economy per capita of Greece. Russia (and apparAntly Russians) are utterly incapable of seeing other post-soviet states as independent, soEvereign nations. They seem to think Russia, and Russia alone, has some solid right to interfere. And worst, they seem to think that everybody thinks that way. That the world is some pie you can divide, and that Russia somehow is equal to the United States in power and influence.
Exactly Russia is weak and in no position to be rivaling USA dominance. Yet somehow you claim it is threat to European union, a state with Greek economy per capita? As far as I can see Russia is interfering and invading neighboring countries that USA want's to build military bases in, because Russia is scared of NATO. Russia feels so threatened that they invade countries at cost of making own economy Greece 2.0, so Putin is retarded or something? No he has a reason to be scared when you look at what USA is doing. It seems like you don't believe in sovereignty of countries/nations but rather in global USA empire.

I believe in a global USA Empire. The USA are great.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 03:43:31 pm
It's Russia. Obviously it is garbage. It is a "ex"-soviet country... There is no way it could not be garbage.

I am sorry (not), but I am biased towards hating communism.
No one cares about communism, it’s dead.
You’ve said shit about Russia, that we should burn in hell.
Mate, as I told you before - you are a disgusting prick.
Kinda dead, but not really. Doesn't change the fact that unless Russia sees a ginormous change in their politics, it is going to remain a shithole.
And no, I did not say that Russians should burn in hell, I said, Russia. The political construct.
It is not the fault of the average Russian citizen that his country is garbage. It is the fault of the select few and their supporters.
I also can not really blame anyone living in Russia on defending Russia, since that is to be expected. It is not like they got any other choice. (At least not, if they want to survive unharmed)
You are confusing communism which is type of economic policy with dictatorship which is form of government. Today's Russia is looking more towards former glory of Russian Tsardom rather than USSR. Russians living in Muscovy are just like Americans in New York, addicted to shopping and hardcore capitalists. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 05, 2018, 03:45:39 pm
Sure, fair enough, but they go hand in hand.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 03:45:49 pm
I believe in a global USA Empire. The USA are great.
'I believe in drone strikes on civilians. Agent Orange was great.'

Agent Orange
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/77/92/1b/77921b418e02c58700fc02b90a5dd2b1.jpg)
[close]

Not to mention how SJW propaganda is wonderful.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 05, 2018, 03:51:55 pm
Out of arguments let's mention the Vietnam War that ended because of free speech and demonstrations something Russia doesn't have heh.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 03:54:18 pm
Out of arguments let's mention the Vietnam War that ended because of free speech and demonstrations something Russia doesn't have heh.
'whataboutism'

No but srsly drone strikes were used in Vietnam right? And war ending because of free speech makes everything okay apparently, not to mention war also ended because USA got rekt. And USA got punished really hard by the international community.

And it wasn't really argument against his statement. I just told him what he supports. He can support USA if he wants to, nothing to argue here.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 03:59:22 pm
Council,  Putin admitted that special forces were in the Ukraine. It even says it in that article I linked.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/12054164/Vladimir-Putins-annual-press-conference-2015-live.html
There is another article if you need it. Now where is the evidence for your claims?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 04:05:07 pm
Sure, fair enough, but they go hand in hand.
Yeah but so do capitalism and dictatorship sometimes, so it is really inconvenient to call dictatorship communism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 05:11:02 pm
How can you not see how Olafson is obviously just trolling you? Jeez, it's so easy.

Quote
No but srsly drone strikes were used in Vietnam right? And war ending because of free speech makes everything okay apparently, not to mention war also ended because USA got rekt. And USA got punished really hard by the international community.

How can you interpret someone's argument this wrong?
Quote
No he has a reason to be scared when you look at what USA is doing. It seems like you don't believe in sovereignty of countries/nations but rather in global USA empire.

Do you really think NATO wants to invade Russia?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 05:29:41 pm
How can you interpret someone's argument this wrong?
Quote
No he has a reason to be scared when you look at what USA is doing. It seems like you don't believe in sovereignty of countries/nations but rather in global USA empire.

Do you really think NATO wants to invade Russia?
It wasn't even an argument.

If they could they would. But currently they don't want to because it would mean nuclear war.

Tell me what gives USA right to invade anyone they would like to while nobody else is allowed to. Why is USA when going to war peace keeper and when other countries go to war they are agressors.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 05, 2018, 05:37:29 pm
Yeah but so do capitalism and dictatorship sometimes, so it is really inconvenient to call dictatorship communism.

Capitalism and dictatorship go hand in hand? Moronic
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 05:38:53 pm
So we would if Russia had no nukes?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 05:43:04 pm
So we would if Russia had no nukes?
Yes probably wouldn't be open invasion but rather proxy war where NATO would instal own puppet goverment and add Russia to the NATO.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 05:44:57 pm
Why?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 05:47:12 pm
Why?
Huge amounts of natural resources (gas, platinum, rhodium...), envelopment of China which would be last opposing country.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 05:48:09 pm
All of which Russia is already selling to NATO because it's basicaly its entire economy?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 05:51:10 pm
All of which Russia is already selling to NATO because it's basicaly its entire economy?
It would be owned by USA companies.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 05:54:05 pm
I think you are slightly underestimating the costs of war and the democratic control in the USA.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 05:54:38 pm
Can we all just agree that Mcpero and Council base their arguments on fantasy and Russian propaganda and don’t understand the basics of everything they argue for and against. They ignore facts and proof and make statements that only exist in their own realities and therefore can’t be proven.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 05:59:26 pm
I think you are slightly underestimating the costs of war and the democratic control in the USA.
USA needs war to keep military industry running. Cost of war doesn't matter in that case. There might not even be a war if USA would set up sucessful coup.

Can we all just agree that Mcpero and Council base their arguments on fantasy and Russian propaganda and don’t understand the basics of everything they argue for and against. They ignore facts and proof and make statements that only exist in their own realities and therefore can’t be proven.

You can but that would just show how ignorant you are and brianwashed by western propaganda. What facts and proofs am I ignoring? You ignore logic and believe in some unrealistic ideas.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 06:00:52 pm
I know, but Hoi3 keeps crashing. Need something to waste time on.

Quote
USA needs war to keep military industry running. Cost of war doesn't matter in that case. There might not even be a war if USA would set up sucessful coup.

Wait, your whole argument is that NATO wants to coup/proxy-war Putin out but doesn't because of nukes. So NATO doesn't want Putin to nuke Russia?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:02:05 pm
You seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughable
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:02:13 pm
I know, but Hoi3 keeps crashing. Need something to waste time on.

Quote
USA needs war to keep military industry running. Cost of war doesn't matter in that case. There might not even be a war if USA would set up sucessful coup.

Wait, your whole argument is that NATO wants to coup/proxy-war Putin out but doesn't because of nukes. So NATO doesn't want Putin to nuke Russia?
That just made 0 sense.

Btw HOI is worst Paradox game in terms of game concept
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:02:45 pm
You seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughable
Give me one example
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 06:04:41 pm
Do you really think NATO wants to invade Russia?
If they could they would. But currently they don't want to because it would mean nuclear war.

So you state NATO does not invade because of Nukes. So, I ask.

So we would if Russia had no nukes?

To which you reply:
Yes probably wouldn't be open invasion but rather proxy war where NATO would instal own puppet goverment and add Russia to the NATO.

How does having nukes stop NATO from starting a proxy war right now?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:05:56 pm
You seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughable
Give me one example
the way you both try and defend Russia in the Ukraine as though you can’t see that you’ve invaded a country undemocratocally and illegally
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:06:35 pm
Do you really think NATO wants to invade Russia?
If they could they would. But currently they don't want to because it would mean nuclear war.

So you state NATO does not invade because of Nukes. So, I ask.

So we would if Russia had no nukes?

To which you reply:
Yes probably wouldn't be open invasion but rather proxy war where NATO would instal own puppet goverment and add Russia to the NATO.

How does having nukes stop NATO from starting a proxy war right now?
Yes Putin would nuke NATO.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 06:07:59 pm
Putin would nuke NATO while it is not actually at war with them?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:08:34 pm
You seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughable
Give me one example
the way you both try and defend Russia in the Ukraine as though you can’t see that you’ve invaded a country undemocratocally and illegally
I am not defending Russia for invading Ukraine. And what the fuck is undemocratic invasion lol? Perhaps May bombing Syria without approval of Parliament? Every invasion is illegal so here your argument proven wrong. Oh and me or Council since we are apparently one person now didn't invade anyone, im not even Russian.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:08:52 pm
Putin would nuke NATO while it is not actually at war with them?
I dont know for sure

Thinking again even if Russia didnt have nukes NATO couldnt defeat it at low enough cost.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 06:17:25 pm
You seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughable
Give me one example
the way you both try and defend Russia in the Ukraine as though you can’t see that you’ve invaded a country undemocratocally and illegally
I am not defending Russia for invading Ukraine. And what the fuck is undemocratic invasion lol? Perhaps May bombing Syria without approval of Parliament? Every invasion is illegal so here your argument proven wrong. Oh and me or Council since we are apparently one person now didn't invade anyone, im not even Russian.
There is your whataboutism again. I didn’t agree with the bombing of Syria either but you defend Russia all the time, avoiding levying any actual criticism against a dictatorship.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 06:18:05 pm
Putin would nuke NATO while it is not actually at war with them?
I dont know for sure

Thinking again even if Russia didnt have nukes NATO couldnt defeat it at low enough cost.

Which is why we don't want to invade. Did you just counter your own argument?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:19:44 pm
You seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughable
Give me one example
the way you both try and defend Russia in the Ukraine as though you can’t see that you’ve invaded a country undemocratocally and illegally
I am not defending Russia for invading Ukraine. And what the fuck is undemocratic invasion lol? Perhaps May bombing Syria without approval of Parliament? Every invasion is illegal so here your argument proven wrong. Oh and me or Council since we are apparently one person now didn't invade anyone, im not even Russian.
There is your whataboutism again. I didn’t agree with the bombing of Syria either but you defend Russia all the time, avoiding levying any actual criticism against a dictatorship.
What whataboutism wtf? I just wasnt sure what undemocratic invasion is,point of that wasnt saying hey UK is actually undemocratically invading people. I dont defend Russia all the time you are delusional.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:21:19 pm
Putin would nuke NATO while it is not actually at war with them?
I dont know for sure

Thinking again even if Russia didnt have nukes NATO couldnt defeat it at low enough cost.

Which is why we don't want to invade. Did you just counter your own argument?
Yes I did on purpose because Im not so stubborn to not admit I was wrong, my world wont collapse if something I believe in turns out to be wrong.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 06:22:08 pm
Yes I did on purpose because Im not so stubborn to not admit I was wrong, my world wont collapse if something I believe in turns out to be wrong.

So NATO does not want to invade Russia. So does Putin need to invade Ukraine in order to defend Russia from NATO?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:23:46 pm
Yes I did on purpose because Im not so stubborn to not admit I was wrong, my world wont collapse if something I believe in turns out to be wrong.

So NATO does not want to invade Russia. So does Putin need to invade Ukraine in order to defend Russia from NATO?
No it doesnt but they don't want to give up influence over Ukraine. And they still feel safer if there is no NATO in Ukraine.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 06:26:32 pm
They didn't want to lose influence so they started a war causing public opinion of Russia to take a steep dive and public support for joining NATO going up? And what influence to begin with? Russia has no soft power, like I said.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 06:34:56 pm
They didn't want to lose influence so they started a war causing public opinion of Russia to take a steep dive and public support for joining NATO going up? And what influence to begin with? Russia has no soft power, like I said.
Well not really influence but rather Ukraine not joining NATO. Your claim is Russian goverment is just evil and wants to hurt Ukraine for no reason just because Russia is a meany or what? Russia wants to play the same game USA is but they are much weaker. Ukraine used to be buying most of Russian gas. Half of Ukraine likes Russia the other side hates it. But yes now more and more people are leaning toward NATO.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 07:00:59 pm
Quote
Your claim is Russian goverment is just evil and wants to hurt Ukraine for no reason just because Russia is a meany or what?

No?

Quote
Half of Ukraine likes Russia the other side hates it

Wrong.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 07:19:44 pm
You seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughable
Give me one example
the way you both try and defend Russia in the Ukraine as though you can’t see that you’ve invaded a country undemocratocally and illegally
I am not defending Russia for invading Ukraine. And what the fuck is undemocratic invasion lol? Perhaps May bombing Syria without approval of Parliament? Every invasion is illegal so here your argument proven wrong. Oh and me or Council since we are apparently one person now didn't invade anyone, im not even Russian.
There is your whataboutism again. I didn’t agree with the bombing of Syria either but you defend Russia all the time, avoiding levying any actual criticism against a dictatorship.
What whataboutism wtf? I just wasnt sure what undemocratic invasion is,point of that wasnt saying hey UK is actually undemocratically invading people. I dont defend Russia all the time you are delusional.
You were literally trying your best to defend them against NATO whilst talking to Duuring before you managed to unravel your own argument...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 07:22:47 pm
Quote
Your claim is Russian goverment is just evil and wants to hurt Ukraine for no reason just because Russia is a meany or what?

No?

Quote
Half of Ukraine likes Russia the other side hates it

Wrong.
What are yoi than?

Okay.

You seriously can’t see it, can you? It’s the general consensus here that you have to prove what you’re saying. You both struggle to get the timelines of events right, let alone the actual facts. You can’t provide any sources and make statements that cannot be supported in any reality. It’s almost laughable
Give me one example
the way you both try and defend Russia in the Ukraine as though you can’t see that you’ve invaded a country undemocratocally and illegally
I am not defending Russia for invading Ukraine. And what the fuck is undemocratic invasion lol? Perhaps May bombing Syria without approval of Parliament? Every invasion is illegal so here your argument proven wrong. Oh and me or Council since we are apparently one person now didn't invade anyone, im not even Russian.
There is your whataboutism again. I didn’t agree with the bombing of Syria either but you defend Russia all the time, avoiding levying any actual criticism against a dictatorship.
What whataboutism wtf? I just wasnt sure what undemocratic invasion is,point of that wasnt saying hey UK is actually undemocratically invading people. I dont defend Russia all the time you are delusional.
You were literally trying your best to defend them against NATO whilst talking to Duuring before you managed to unravel your own argument...
No I was not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 07:26:50 pm
You’ve been trying to justify their actions for this entire discussion, saying that they only want to play be same game as the US and they only fear for their own security. Any excuse
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 08:33:31 pm
You’ve been trying to justify their actions for this entire discussion, saying that they only want to play be same game as the US and they only fear for their own security. Any excuse
Yeah those two reasons dont justfy their invasion of Ukraine?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 08:36:14 pm
You first said it was because they felt threatened by NATO, then you said they didn't but wanted to keep their influence and then you admitted Russia had no influence in Ukraine to start with, but rather was trying to make sure Ukraine didn't join NATO - although you just said NATO wasn't a threat to Russia. We've gone full circle.

I'm somewhat amused.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 08:56:51 pm
You’ve been trying to justify their actions for this entire discussion, saying that they only want to play be same game as the US and they only fear for their own security. Any excuse
Yeah those two reasons dont justfy their invasion of Ukraine?
No they don’t
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 09:02:09 pm
You first said it was because they felt threatened by NATO, then you said they didn't but wanted to keep their influence and then you admitted Russia had no influence in Ukraine to start with, but rather was trying to make sure Ukraine didn't join NATO - although you just said NATO wasn't a threat to Russia. We've gone full circle.

I'm somewhat amused.
Hope it didn't cause short circuit in your brain.
They feel threatened by NATO I never said they don't I only said NATO wouldn't attack Russia because winning the war would be to costly. And they also want to have status of superpower like USA. These are their motives behind invasion of Ukraine, well and the fact that there is more Russians on Crimea than Ukrainians (but since I don't believe in nations that is pretty meh reason). Crimea enables them good access to the Black Sea to get into Mediterranean sea. Never said Russian invasion was legal.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 09:02:33 pm
You’ve been trying to justify their actions for this entire discussion, saying that they only want to play be same game as the US and they only fear for their own security. Any excuse
Yeah those two reasons dont justfy their invasion of Ukraine?
No they don’t
Exactly.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 09:06:30 pm
So you agree with us Russia should return Crimea and cease supporting its vassal states in eastern Ukraine? Now we're getting somewhere.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 09:09:27 pm
So you agree with us Russia should return Crimea and cease supporting its vassal states in eastern Ukraine? Now we're getting somewhere.
I agree Russia should fuck off from Ukraine and do another referendum in Crimea about being in Russia or Ukraine. Maybe referendum even in other parts (those in east). Referendums being watched by Russia, Ukraine, USA, Switzerland/Austria.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 05, 2018, 09:19:19 pm
Hmm, this ain't gonna be good for relations with Eastern Europe (which are already terrible)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/karl-marx-jean-claude-juncker-defends-legacy-a8337176.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 05, 2018, 09:24:54 pm
So you agree with us Russia should return Crimea and cease supporting its vassal states in eastern Ukraine? Now we're getting somewhere.
I agree Russia should fuck off from Ukraine and do another referendum in Crimea about being in Russia or Ukraine. Maybe referendum even in other parts (those in east). Referendums being watched by Russia, Ukraine, USA, Switzerland/Austria.
So what is the point in you arguing in against me and duuring
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 09:27:59 pm
So you agree with us Russia should return Crimea and cease supporting its vassal states in eastern Ukraine? Now we're getting somewhere.
I agree Russia should fuck off from Ukraine and do another referendum in Crimea about being in Russia or Ukraine. Maybe referendum even in other parts (those in east). Referendums being watched by Russia, Ukraine, USA, Switzerland/Austria.
So what is the point in you arguing in against me and duuring
I don't know Duuring said Russia is threat to Germany. And you just started accusing me of things Council was saying. Plus Duuring's HOI was crashing so he was bored.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 05, 2018, 09:36:38 pm
Hmm, this ain't gonna be good for relations with Eastern Europe (which are already terrible)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/karl-marx-jean-claude-juncker-defends-legacy-a8337176.html

I don't think they really care, but nevertheless it mad me wonder who will succeed Juncker nexy year. I guess it also depends on if the EPP becomes the biggest faction but that's kinda a given.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 05, 2018, 09:42:26 pm
Hmm, this ain't gonna be good for relations with Eastern Europe (which are already terrible)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/karl-marx-jean-claude-juncker-defends-legacy-a8337176.html

Looks like someone forget to lock the alcohol closet again
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 09:51:42 pm
#MarxDidNothingWrong

Nobody seems to blame philosophers (for example Johann Gottfried Herder) that invented nationalism for what Hitler, Mussolini, Japan did, all national heros.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on May 05, 2018, 09:59:19 pm
#MarxDidNothingWrong

Nobody seems to blame philosophers (for example Johann Gottfried Herder) that invented nationalism for what Hitler, Mussolini, Japan did, all national heros.

Spoiler
https://youtube.com/watch?v=WlWmCXihec4
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 05, 2018, 10:01:12 pm
Poor kid doesn't know nations dont exist.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 05, 2018, 10:53:43 pm
#MarxDidNothingWrong

Nobody seems to blame philosophers (for example Johann Gottfried Herder) that invented nationalism for what Hitler, Mussolini, Japan did, all national heros.

w h a t a b o u t i s m
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 05, 2018, 11:46:53 pm
Big thanks to the gentleman McPero. I really respect your adequate and independent opinion.
Thank you for living in reality. Thankee for Duuring and Toffee for having a disscussion, pardon me for being not a good collocutor since i’m not on that english level to openly translate the whole scene in my mind.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 06, 2018, 12:20:12 am
#MarxDidNothingWrong

Nobody seems to blame philosophers (for example Johann Gottfried Herder) that invented nationalism for what Hitler, Mussolini, Japan did, all national heros.

w h a t a b o u t i s m
I am saying nor Marx nor nationalism philispohers are guilty, not whataboutism okay 니가 privilaged white male?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 06, 2018, 03:55:13 pm
So we've been bashing on Russia for a while now what's next? Turkey maybe? ;)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 06, 2018, 04:11:00 pm
Thoughts on the UK local elections?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 06, 2018, 04:45:13 pm
Labour winning in urban (pro-stay) areas, Tories in rural and northern England (pro-leave) areas. We might be looking at a serious re-alignment happening.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 06, 2018, 05:06:27 pm
Labour winning in urban (pro-stay) areas, Tories in rural and northern England (pro-leave) areas. We might be looking at a serious re-alignment happening.
Most of the gains were from no overall control. If you compare the colour map to the 2014 one it’s not majorly different. Nobody gained that much tbh.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 06, 2018, 05:17:10 pm
That's the thing. Both are gaining votes where they don't need it and losing them where they didn't win before. It's against political strategy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 06, 2018, 06:08:46 pm
So we've been bashing on Russia for a while now what's next? Turkey maybe? ;)

I mean it has to be USA or Swedistan.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 06, 2018, 07:07:00 pm
Maybe but Turkey is on Russia level of shit atm.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 06, 2018, 07:43:56 pm
Maybe but Turkey is on Russia level of shit atm.
How about UAE taking Socotra from Yemen? Oh wait UAE is USA ally thus their actions must be legal.

Turkey is sad they were on such a great path.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 06, 2018, 07:53:50 pm
You know the intervention is lead by Saudi Arabia right?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on May 06, 2018, 07:53:56 pm
It might sound radical but I support the idea of joint security if it’s properly controlled by all of the contributors instead of a single one. There will come a time when Europe won’t be able to rely on the US and we need to look to ourselves to defend each other. Closer bonds and connections only serve to maintain the longest relative peace the continent has ever seen.

Defend each other, sure, but not as one army controlled by some illiterate idiots in Brussel.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 06, 2018, 08:11:36 pm
You know the intervention is lead by Saudi Arabia right?
Intervention into Yemen? Saudi and UAE aee close allies what is your point here?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 06, 2018, 08:36:51 pm
It might sound radical but I support the idea of joint security if it’s properly controlled by all of the contributors instead of a single one. There will come a time when Europe won’t be able to rely on the US and we need to look to ourselves to defend each other. Closer bonds and connections only serve to maintain the longest relative peace the continent has ever seen.

Defend each other, sure, but not as one army controlled by some illiterate idiots in Brussel.
Controlled by a council which has elected individuals from each country
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on May 06, 2018, 08:48:42 pm
It might sound radical but I support the idea of joint security if it’s properly controlled by all of the contributors instead of a single one. There will come a time when Europe won’t be able to rely on the US and we need to look to ourselves to defend each other. Closer bonds and connections only serve to maintain the longest relative peace the continent has ever seen.

Defend each other, sure, but not as one army controlled by some illiterate idiots in Brussel.
Controlled by a council which has elected individuals from each country

Yeah that's what NATO is for
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 06, 2018, 09:36:18 pm
It might sound radical but I support the idea of joint security if it’s properly controlled by all of the contributors instead of a single one. There will come a time when Europe won’t be able to rely on the US and we need to look to ourselves to defend each other. Closer bonds and connections only serve to maintain the longest relative peace the continent has ever seen.

Defend each other, sure, but not as one army controlled by some illiterate idiots in Brussel.
Controlled by a council which has elected individuals from each country

Yeah that's what NATO is for
Except NATO isn’t just Europe
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 06, 2018, 10:05:50 pm
It might sound radical but I support the idea of joint security if it’s properly controlled by all of the contributors instead of a single one. There will come a time when Europe won’t be able to rely on the US and we need to look to ourselves to defend each other. Closer bonds and connections only serve to maintain the longest relative peace the continent has ever seen.

Defend each other, sure, but not as one army controlled by some illiterate idiots in Brussel.
Controlled by a council which has elected individuals from each country

Yeah that's what NATO is for
Except NATO isn’t just Europe

Which is a good thing. Only a 'little European' would want NATO to shrink. Any European defensive structure has to keep the Americans in, the Germans down and the Russians out.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 06, 2018, 10:15:30 pm
It might sound radical but I support the idea of joint security if it’s properly controlled by all of the contributors instead of a single one. There will come a time when Europe won’t be able to rely on the US and we need to look to ourselves to defend each other. Closer bonds and connections only serve to maintain the longest relative peace the continent has ever seen.

Defend each other, sure, but not as one army controlled by some illiterate idiots in Brussel.
Controlled by a council which has elected individuals from each country

Yeah that's what NATO is for
Except NATO isn’t just Europe

Which is a good thing. Only a 'little European' would want NATO to shrink. Any European defensive structure has to keep the Americans in, the Germans down and the Russians out.
Says who? Why can't Europe protect itself? The Americans are talking about withdrawing funding from Nato so the natural place for us to turn is to eachother
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 06, 2018, 10:52:54 pm
The Americans don't fund NATO. And Trump is only spending more on the armed forces, not less.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 06, 2018, 10:59:21 pm
The Americans don't fund NATO. And Trump is only spending more on the armed forces, not less.
They send a lot of military aid to NATO members, Trump has threatened to cut that funding
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 06, 2018, 11:06:05 pm
Like what? Is he closing down basis in Europe? Bringing back ships to the continental US?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 06, 2018, 11:09:38 pm
Like what? Is he closing down basis in Europe? Bringing back ships to the continental US?
I guess I was wrong about the funding being specific for nato as it’s actually for countries that don’t vote with the us in the UN, which could include some nato countries but he said that nato members couldn’t be sure of US support if they don’t pay their 2%

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/492341/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 07, 2018, 12:14:54 am
What is Europe defending itself from exactly? Russia is a country in steep decline and Germany is committed to dominating the continent via non-military means. An EU military is a vanity project for offensive, rather than defensive, purposes. The minute it happens you can already tell they'll be sent to somewhere like Africa for peacekeeping or whatever, but in reality it'll be to show it off as a kind of perverse media stunt.

For the UK it's a different choice and we're already going further down the Anglosphere/CANZUK military route. Makes sense given we're already highly integrated with them (5 Eyes, TTCP, ABCA Armies, etc).

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 07, 2018, 12:17:44 am
Well by the same logic, is there any point in any country having a military in the EU? A strong EU army can deter future threats and decrease our dependency on other powers like the US
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 07, 2018, 12:28:36 am
It's also cost-effective, which is by far the most important reason it will happen.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 07, 2018, 01:29:27 am
Well by the same logic, is there any point in any country having a military in the EU? A strong EU army can deter future threats and decrease our dependency on other powers like the US

Of course, because you maintain your defences in peace time. People arguing that EU defence should be revolutionised need to point to a very good reason for doing so. There's plenty of problems, not least that EU defence projects have a poor history (A400M total disaster, Galileo system similarly awful). Also I doubt many countries would willingly give up control over their military to Brussels/Berlin, as once you do that you have to accept you no longer have a foreign policy. France will be a big stumbling bloc as Paris won't want to lose control over 'Force de Frappe' nor its UN Security Council seat. French EU defence engagement has always been lukewarm anyway (France originally killed off defence integration in the 50s, dropped out of Eurofighter due to disagreements, tried to u-turn on the A400M, etc).

If the Brits are leaving, and if the French aren't keen, then you're off to a poor start as those are the only two EU military powers. And anyway, why are these units currently integrating with the Bundeswehr rather than the other way round? It's a joke army that's had to use broomsticks during NATO exercises. As always with EU matters politics comes before common sense and it'll be a total disaster as a result.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 07, 2018, 01:42:18 am
obviously it’s a difficult thing to get right with many barriers, but if it was done right then Europe would be a much safer place without having to rely on the US to act like our protector. By working together Europe can secure its future. That’s one of the big objections I have to leaving the EU, it pulls us further away from the people that we need to be working with for a better future.

I might be dreaming but if somebody in Europe were to come forward with a proposal of a joint force, where each country maybe only contributed a small number of troops at first. Each country that contributed would have a place on a board which decides on action.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 07, 2018, 01:55:52 am
Not talking about the other stuff, but the broomstick story, is as far as I know completely exaggerated. As far as I know German soldiers attached broomsticks painted black to various vehicles to make them seem like they are armed and not just reconnaissance/troop transports. You do that kind of stuff in the army, to confuse your enemy and show them that you are stronger than you actually are. The military did that ever since military was a thing, and it makes sense to do so.

Now, I did not really do much research into this, but this is what I read some time ago, I do not even know how long ago and where...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 07, 2018, 03:29:21 am
From what I read they used broomsticks because they needed to simulate for an exercise and weren't able to bring the right equipment. Might be wrong, but it's still the case that the Bundeswehr probably couldn't fight a modern war in its current state.

I might be dreaming but if somebody in Europe were to come forward with a proposal of a joint force, where each country maybe only contributed a small number of troops at first. Each country that contributed would have a place on a board which decides on action.

That's basically NATO, and there's absolutely nothing to stop countries spending more on defence. The reason most capitals have cut back in recent years is because there's almost no military threat to Europe (unless you're in Russia's immediate back yard, and even then Putin's hugely overstretched). UK defence has chiefly relied on the Anglosphere for the best part of two centuries and there's no logic to change that.

The 'pool resources to save money and deliver better results' approach may sound good on paper, but when you compare the Eurofighter to the Dassault Rafale that might not be true in practice...

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 07, 2018, 09:39:50 am
My point is that if the US wants to withdraw support, then let them. We should defend ourselves. I would support a federalised country in Europe, but that’s just me. I don’t understand the entire sovereignty argument. Seems like people just put pride ahead of anything else.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 07, 2018, 10:05:04 am
My point is that if the US wants to withdraw support, then let them. We should defend ourselves. I would support a federalised country in Europe, but that’s just me. I don’t understand the entire sovereignty argument. Seems like people just put pride ahead of anything else.
Europe needs to become federation and give more power to European parliament and also make a new system of electing MPs for it. But it is very important to keep cultural diversity across the states in federation. But I don't think that is happening so I hope my country just declares neutrality like Austria and Switzerland.
But EU doesn't needs strong military unless we should be scared of USA.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 07, 2018, 11:59:53 am
My point is that if the US wants to withdraw support, then let them. We should defend ourselves. I would support a federalised country in Europe, but that’s just me. I don’t understand the entire sovereignty argument. Seems like people just put pride ahead of anything else.


Yes we should. But we can't.
Everyone here talks as if it is so easy to just cut the US out of the picture.... you can't.
I mean... really it is nice making this point because it cannot really be refuted, but the most important aspect of being able to defend yourself (Implying a breach in sovereignty thus conventional interstate warfighting) is a strategic displacement/movement (forgive me I do not know the English doctrinal term). Basically it mean moving a metric butt fuckload of troops and material.
The EU does not have the capacity of doing so. Not enough air-to-air refueling for a sustained air campaign. Not enough fuel and transportation capability for an extended ground campgain.

And that's just logsitics. Then the warfighting capability themselves. Communication systems that aren't linked and cannot be linked. The entire NATO force in Europe has maybe 3 AWACS planes VITAL for division-sized and up units. In a considerable theatre you'd need dozens for a sustained campaign.

There aren't enough functioning tanks on the EU continent (not counting the US) to even RESEMBLE an armoured threat.

And then the most simple part: not enough troops. Recent missions in an already poorly manned military europe have left the infantry weak.

Oh and there isn't even doctrine anymore to mount a large campaign... in other words... we don't know how to do it anymore...




Then on the note why we still need a military: international relations and international politics are primarily dominated by security issues and resource issues. This was basically the bassi of the EU. the reason the US intervened in both WW1 and WW2 and is the reasons we have peacekeeping missions in the first place.

It is the reason we actually listen to what the Chinese have to say and why a dead-broke Russia is still a player internationally at all. It is the Reason why the EU and NATO tolerate Turkey and Greece and why India and Pakistan aren't bombing the shit out of eachother. The world is dominated by thew presence of country's military and the security threats to each other.



Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 07, 2018, 12:23:14 pm
Quote
And then the most simple part: not enough troops. Recent missions in an already poorly manned military europe have left the infantry weak.

Did somebody say.....Conscription?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 07, 2018, 03:23:14 pm
I think a combined EU military would be better at allocating resources then 27 independant ones.

So I don't think spending or manpower would be an issue I think the most major issue would be culture, langauge and obviously all the issues with merging militaries (like different systems etc).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 07, 2018, 03:24:52 pm
Might be wrong, but it's still the case that the Bundeswehr probably couldn't fight a modern war in its current state.

Yeah, that is probably true.

The entire NATO force in Europe has maybe 3 AWACS planes VITAL for division-sized and up units. In a considerable theatre you'd need dozens for a sustained campaign.

I see one of those things flying over our town all the time, I always thought that there are dozens of them around. Apparently it just stationed somewhere near here then... Very nice.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 07, 2018, 03:40:09 pm


Yeah, that is probably true.
It is most definitely true.


I think a combined EU military would be better at allocating resources then 27 independant ones.

So I don't think spending or manpower would be an issue I think the most major issue would be culture, langauge and obviously all the issues with merging militaries (like different systems etc).


Underlined: Better, but most definitely not good enough.

Raising enough manpower would take way too much time.... You also need an adequate amount of weapons and equipment to field those troops. Not to mention training capacity and housing. More fighting troops also means more logistics to sustain an operation lasting longer than 24 hours in its totality. More logistics means more transport, trucks, planes and ships... You cannot just enlarge the fighting power of a nation by adding more men
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 07, 2018, 03:41:10 pm
I suppose it would have to be a gradual process over many years. Maybe starting with just greater co-operation
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 07, 2018, 03:44:37 pm
Better, but most definitely not good enough.
Mot good enough for what?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 07, 2018, 04:22:56 pm
Better, but most definitely not good enough.
Mot good enough for what?

To, as an independant military force launch any significant warfighting campaign whatsoever. Without US help.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 07, 2018, 04:27:48 pm
The only purpose an EU military has is to promote EU federalism. That's it. The enemy is non-existent and if this was being done to enhance EU defence and security you wouldn't integrate into the Bundeswehr of all things.

If Germany can't even run its own military how can it manage everybody else's?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 07, 2018, 05:34:36 pm
But the idea I’m proposing isn’t to integrate everything into the budeswehr. Also Russia could be seen as a threat to EU countries depending on who signed up. Enemies are never constant, the army would be there to defend in case we needed it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 07, 2018, 05:41:17 pm
It doesn't matter if or who the current threat it. It matters that a rich Europe will always need the means to defend itself- and right now it can't.

The only military that could remotely be considered to join into would have been Great Britain, but even that is too far-fetched to be anything but be a bad joke.

As I said... you need integrated systems to think about it even in rudamentary form.

Look at the Dutch-German cooperation. This system they currently have is barely working as is, and the Dutch and German military are possibly the closes of two cultures you can get (and militarily vastly different, then again the Dutch military is vastly different from any military culture except maybe the Danish, but with 15.000 activ military personnel they're hardly putting a dent in anything) and even on this level they feel like they're just a political experiment with no real combat value.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 07, 2018, 06:11:05 pm
It doesn't matter if or who the current threat it. It matters that a rich Europe will always need the means to defend itself- and right now it can't.

The only military that could remotely be considered to join into would have been Great Britain, but even that is too far-fetched to be anything but be a bad joke.

As I said... you need integrated systems to think about it even in rudamentary form.

Look at the Dutch-German cooperation. This system they currently have is barely working as is, and the Dutch and German military are possibly the closes of two cultures you can get (and militarily vastly different, then again the Dutch military is vastly different from any military culture except maybe the Danish, but with 15.000 activ military personnel they're hardly putting a dent in anything) and even on this level they feel like they're just a political experiment with no real combat value.
Wait Netherlands have 15k soldiers?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 07, 2018, 06:12:42 pm
But the idea I’m proposing isn’t to integrate everything into the budeswehr. Also Russia could be seen as a threat to EU countries depending on who signed up. Enemies are never constant, the army would be there to defend in case we needed it.

But your idea is not what's currently happening. It's all based on integration with the Bundeswehr, a military with only four working Eurofighters, 0 working submarines or A400M transport planes, 95 operational tanks (out of c.300) and god knows what else. It has never once been deployed in serious strength abroad.

Post-Brexit, the only EU military power that could carry out the task is France but it has serious reservations about doing do so. Plus Germany is unwilling to give up political control over its glorified town militia. I doubt Eastern Europe is willing to trust Brussels with its defence either and will stick with the Americans for the foreseeable future.

Oh, and then there's language barriers which make it difficult in practical terms unless they ironically make them all communicate in English (good luck persuading the French to do that).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on May 07, 2018, 06:26:10 pm

the Bundeswehr, a military with only four working Eurofighters, 0 working submarines or A400M transport planes, 95 operational tanks (out of c.300) and god knows what else. It has never once been deployed in serious strength abroad.



Nice to know the Bundeswehr has about the same strategic resources as a small US state National Guard
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 07, 2018, 07:36:53 pm
Oh, and then there's language barriers which make it difficult in practical terms unless they ironically make them all communicate in English (good luck persuading the French to do that).
Well Austro-Hungarian/Habsurg army used to be multi-lingual, there were some issues but definitely good example that you can form strong military with Germans, Hungarians (not even Indo-European), Romanians, Slavs. I believe Hungarian part had Hungarian officers and rest had German.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 07, 2018, 07:58:08 pm
>wants to give example of strong multicultural, multi-lingual army
>gives Austrian-Hungarian army as example
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 07, 2018, 08:44:41 pm
>wants to give example of strong multicultural, multi-lingual army
>gives Austrian-Hungarian army as example

This.

Most obvious modern example is Canada, and it's difficult enough with only two languages and you have stark divisions between French and English speaking units. Officers have to be bilingual too, which is just about possible. Just not feasible in an EU context unless you have an English speaking command structure all the way down to at least company level, plus highly regionalised recruitment.

For all the effort that'd require, and all the nationalist sentiment it'd cause, you're better off just using NATO interoperability and individual national contributions to an EU expeditionary force as and when required.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on May 07, 2018, 10:30:37 pm
>wants to give example of strong multicultural, multi-lingual army
>gives Austrian-Hungarian army as example

This.

Most obvious modern example is Canada, and it's difficult enough with only two languages and you have stark divisions between French and English speaking units. Officers have to be bilingual too, which is just about possible. Just not feasible in an EU context unless you have an English speaking command structure all the way down to at least company level, plus highly regionalised recruitment.

For all the effort that'd require, and all the nationalist sentiment it'd cause, you're better off just using NATO interoperability and individual national contributions to an EU expeditionary force as and when required.
If we're being honest the Canadian military is basically comprised into two parts, a french speaking part and a bilingual part. The french get their owns units and bases, and everyone else still needs french for promotions.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 07, 2018, 10:44:09 pm
This is where I step in. Join my personal army. Together we make Europes military great again!

My first order will be to construct 13 brand new aircraft-carriers and put tanks on it. Additionally I propose to develop a new technology that will allow us to launch airplanes from diving submarines. I also want to develop a helicopter that can drive on roads, so that it can use Germanys non existing speedlimit to quickly transport troops through central Europe.

I would also like to introduce you to my new military doctrine. I call it "burgerdonutsandwich" it revolves around the idea that exporting beer cans filled with C4 and remote detonators to foreign countries that we are not at war with, will make them more likely to join our side.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 07, 2018, 11:12:19 pm
And by Olaf's rate of development we should have all that by the year 2176.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 07, 2018, 11:34:29 pm
It won't be FSE developing it, so it will come out!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 08, 2018, 12:33:58 am
This is where I step in. Join my personal army. Together we make Europes military great again!

My first order will be to construct 13 brand new aircraft-carriers and put tanks on it. Additionally I propose to develop a new technology that will allow us to launch airplanes from diving submarines. I also want to develop a helicopter that can drive on roads, so that it can use Germanys non existing speedlimit to quickly transport troops through central Europe.

I would also like to introduce you to my new military doctrine. I call it "burgerdonutsandwich" it revolves around the idea that exporting beer cans filled with C4 and remote detonators to foreign countries that we are not at war with, will make them more likely to join our side.
Poshel nahuj
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on May 08, 2018, 03:50:27 am
I think a combined EU military would be better at allocating resources then 27 independant ones.

So I don't think spending or manpower would be an issue I think the most major issue would be culture, langauge and obviously all the issues with merging militaries (like different systems etc).

NATO
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 08, 2018, 07:58:33 am
This is where I step in. Join my personal army. Together we make Europes military great again!

My first order will be to construct 13 brand new aircraft-carriers and put tanks on it. Additionally I propose to develop a new technology that will allow us to launch airplanes from diving submarines. I also want to develop a helicopter that can drive on roads, so that it can use Germanys non existing speedlimit to quickly transport troops through central Europe.

I would also like to introduce you to my new military doctrine. I call it "burgerdonutsandwich" it revolves around the idea that exporting beer cans filled with C4 and remote detonators to foreign countries that we are not at war with, will make them more likely to join our side.
I mean you already got the money from BCoF donation scam so quite a nice idea. I would like to add you should make an elite unit called Space Marines.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 08, 2018, 03:07:55 pm
Yes, thats a great idea. Very fat obese people can sign up for the Space Marines. They will defeat the enemy by taking all the available space.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on May 08, 2018, 06:30:34 pm
Why not just use the donation money to fund a political campaign and call it the 'Flying Squirrel'. I'd rather the money be used for that
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 08, 2018, 08:28:05 pm
Wow, Trump just pulled the US out of the Iran deal which is pretty major...WH has been briefing all day he'd stop short of doing that!

Looks to me like another nail in the coffin of America's informal empire (and I say that not as a leftie critic of imperialism but rather as an apt description). From TPP to Iran the US looks totally unreliable and untrustworthy.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Norwegian13 on May 08, 2018, 08:45:18 pm
It won't be FSE developing it, so it will come out!

Here's the hint that BCoF will never come out.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on May 08, 2018, 10:14:30 pm
Got bored and made this. Upvote it here  (https://www.reddit.com/r/virginvschad/comments/8hqb6g/virgin_us_airmen_vs_the_chad_russian_aviator/)
(https://i.redditmedia.com/zIjo4qZLK8j52YoBrAdXl4I-1BhsVbeydjq-ai_XVas.png?fit=crop&crop=faces%2Centropy&arh=2&w=640&s=25203cda92f242f2d43dece96107a4b9)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: cheeseypants on May 09, 2018, 04:30:08 am
Wow, Trump just pulled the US out of the Iran deal which is pretty major...WH has been briefing all day he'd stop short of doing that!

Looks to me like another nail in the coffin of America's informal empire (and I say that not as a leftie critic of imperialism but rather as an apt description). From TPP to Iran the US looks totally unreliable and untrustworthy.
Oh yes, we certainly should not have left an agreement with the leading state sponsor of global terrorism.  I mean the terms were SO fantastic for us.  We give them pallets of money, and they lie about their nuclear program proceeding along.  Except now without international sanctions, it will be even easier for them. 

God this deal was so fire, i can't believe druhgmpf coulda done dis.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 09, 2018, 09:37:55 am
There were in depth checks which proved that Iran were complying with the deal. It’s also pretty hypocritical for an American to be bringing up terrorist sponsoring.

The deal is a necessary one. Would you rather a terrorist sponsoring government with Nukes to the one now? Because that’s what would have happened without the agreement.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 09, 2018, 10:19:18 am
Wow, Trump just pulled the US out of the Iran deal which is pretty major...WH has been briefing all day he'd stop short of doing that!

Looks to me like another nail in the coffin of America's informal empire (and I say that not as a leftie critic of imperialism but rather as an apt description). From TPP to Iran the US looks totally unreliable and untrustworthy.
Oh yes, we certainly should not have left an agreement with the leading state sponsor of global terrorism.
Wait are you from Iran and did Iran left the deal,  because it seems like you are describing USA the leading state sponsor of global terrorism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 09, 2018, 11:39:23 am
There were in depth checks which proved that Iran were complying with the deal.

http://www.defenddemocracy.org/content/uploads/documents/IranBallisticMissileResearchMemo.pdf

You sure about that lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 09, 2018, 12:09:38 pm
There were in depth checks which proved that Iran were complying with the deal.

http://www.defenddemocracy.org/content/uploads/documents/IranBallisticMissileResearchMemo.pdf

You sure about that lol
That report literally says that the deal didn’t place any restrictions on Iran’s ballistic missiles.
Even Rex Tillerson admitted that they’re complying with it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 09, 2018, 01:33:02 pm
V-Day, a glorious day of Victory over evil. Thanks ancestors for the peace.
(https://politikus.ru/uploads/posts/2017-05/1494006748_reyhstag_-768x551.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 09, 2018, 03:53:18 pm
Spoiler
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FXZvktB5BuM/V4r9YwAO9VI/AAAAAAAAKk8/PtlGz94QGXYtA_KpphdeS0aQGzts8vurgCLcB/s1600/The%2BSoviet%2Bflag%2Bover%2Bthe%2BReichstag%252C%2B1945.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on May 09, 2018, 06:31:32 pm
Spoiler
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FXZvktB5BuM/V4r9YwAO9VI/AAAAAAAAKk8/PtlGz94QGXYtA_KpphdeS0aQGzts8vurgCLcB/s1600/The%2BSoviet%2Bflag%2Bover%2Bthe%2BReichstag%252C%2B1945.jpg)
[close]
Trophy?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gi on May 09, 2018, 07:35:55 pm
Spoiler
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FXZvktB5BuM/V4r9YwAO9VI/AAAAAAAAKk8/PtlGz94QGXYtA_KpphdeS0aQGzts8vurgCLcB/s1600/The%2BSoviet%2Bflag%2Bover%2Bthe%2BReichstag%252C%2B1945.jpg)
[close]
Trophy?
no it's a primitive dab
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 09, 2018, 08:08:53 pm
https://www.dailywire.com/news/30403/barack-obamas-presidential-legacy-comprehensive-michael-j-knowles
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on May 09, 2018, 08:58:07 pm
https://www.dailywire.com/news/30403/barack-obamas-presidential-legacy-comprehensive-michael-j-knowles
He forgot a few but it is a solid list nonetheless
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 09, 2018, 10:47:28 pm
https://youtu.be/VyjMt4tPDHQ

'we want to live in nation states not false artificial creations'
Nice one Farage it is not like nation is exatly that,  false artificial creation. And not to mention Britain is not a nation as well lul crub your brexit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 11, 2018, 02:38:31 pm
What is Iran doing?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 12, 2018, 10:05:46 pm
https://youtu.be/VyjMt4tPDHQ

'we want to live in nation states not false artificial creations'
Nice one Farage it is not like nation is exatly that,  false artificial creation. And not to mention Britain is not a nation as well lul crub your brexit.

We want complete self rule but we're still going to force Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar to leave the EU even though they voted stay heh..
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 12, 2018, 10:12:10 pm
Even though I disagree with what Farage said and with leaving the EU as a whole, the idea that the nations within the UK are being oppressed is stupid. Scotland voted to join the UK, Northern Ireland chose the UK over the Republic of Ireland and Wales has been within our country longer than it was ever a unified country of its own. They each have National Assemblies and certain levels of autonomy. The United Kingdom is what it says on the tin, a nation of nations, not an oppressive English state. Any suggestion that it is otherwise is idiotic. We voted as a whole otherwise it’s like saying “Tony from France didn’t vote for Macron and is therefore being oppressed”.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on May 12, 2018, 11:50:12 pm
Also a a note, Northern Ireland has a means of leaving the UK at any given time should the electorate decide it wants to leave, funny enough Sein Fein still only got a minority of the Northern Irish seats after the Brexit vote.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 13, 2018, 01:49:29 am
Isn't Northern Ireland in a political crisis atm?

Even though I disagree with what Farage said and with leaving the EU as a whole, the idea that the nations within the UK are being oppressed is stupid. Scotland voted to join the UK, Northern Ireland chose the UK over the Republic of Ireland and Wales has been within our country longer than it was ever a unified country of its own. They each have National Assemblies and certain levels of autonomy. The United Kingdom is what it says on the tin, a nation of nations, not an oppressive English state. Any suggestion that it is otherwise is idiotic. We voted as a whole otherwise it’s like saying “Tony from France didn’t vote for Macron and is therefore being oppressed”.

France doesn't have a divided nation to the same degree as the UK, so it's a poor example and as far as I know there is a lot of Scots who don't consider themselves British.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 13, 2018, 02:02:39 am
Northern Ireland isn’t in a political crisis in relation to them being in the YK, it’s their inability to agree on local governance.

Also Scotland might not consider themselves to be British, but they are part of the nation and when the vote happened it was as the country of he United Kingdom, not as England, Scotland etc. Let’s just put it this way, if We had all remained because Scotland wanted to remain then wouldn’t England be being kept against their will? But that would be okay? Scotland might be a separate cultural identity , but the political identity is still that of the UK.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 13, 2018, 06:29:39 pm
France doesn't have a divided nation to the same degree as the UK, so it's a poor example and as far as I know there is a lot of Scots who don't consider themselves British.

Not true at all. The French have been dealing with Corsican nationalism and terrorism for decades. In many ways the situation there is currently worse than in NI. With Scotland it's not that simple either, plenty of Scottish nationalists consider themselves 'British' including the then leader of the independence movement in 2014:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10578726/Alex-Salmond-Being-British-is-part-of-my-identity.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 13, 2018, 07:27:48 pm
Quote
In many ways the situation there is currently worse than in NI

What ways?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 13, 2018, 08:05:23 pm
Quote
In many ways the situation there is currently worse than in NI

What ways?

Corsican nationalist terrorism continued up until a ceasefire in 2014, whereas in NI it happened much earlier in 1997. IRA officially decommissioned their arms by 2005 (probably still have a few left because these people are liars but most of them have been destroyed), whereas in Corsica the FNLC hasn't done so. Nationalists also recently made big gains in the last Corsican elections and they're now the governing party.

NI has its problems but Corsica is in a far worse place.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 13, 2018, 08:11:30 pm
Right. How many people were killed because of the Northern Ireland conflict, and how much damage was done in, say, US dollars, and how do those numbers compare to the Corsican Nationalist conflict? I assume much worse?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 13, 2018, 08:37:54 pm
Right. How many people were killed because of the Northern Ireland conflict, and how much damage was done in, say, US dollars, and how do those numbers compare to the Corsican Nationalist conflict? I assume much worse?

Difficult to make a comparison of deaths and destruction since I can't find reliable data for the FNLC campaign. But based on this this chronology from the 1990s it was probably worse in terms of damage of property, while casualty rates were probably similar: http://www.refworld.org/docid/469f388a1d.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 13, 2018, 08:45:47 pm
Northern Ireland isn’t in a political crisis in relation to them being in the YK, it’s their inability to agree on local governance.

Also Scotland might not consider themselves to be British, but they are part of the nation and when the vote happened it was as the country of he United Kingdom, not as England, Scotland etc. Let’s just put it this way, if We had all remained because Scotland wanted to remain then wouldn’t England be being kept against their will? But that would be okay? Scotland might be a separate cultural identity , but the political identity is still that of the UK.

The UK & EU are both unions (sure the UK union is a much stronger union compared to the EU). Anyways my point was that Farage uses self determination and argues that the Brittish don't want the EU even though half the states in his union did want it, I just find it funny. I wasn't trying to imply anything else really.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 13, 2018, 08:55:21 pm
Northern Ireland isn’t in a political crisis in relation to them being in the YK, it’s their inability to agree on local governance.

Also Scotland might not consider themselves to be British, but they are part of the nation and when the vote happened it was as the country of he United Kingdom, not as England, Scotland etc. Let’s just put it this way, if We had all remained because Scotland wanted to remain then wouldn’t England be being kept against their will? But that would be okay? Scotland might be a separate cultural identity , but the political identity is still that of the UK.

The UK & EU are both unions (sure the UK union is a much stronger union compared to the EU). Anyways my point was that Farage uses self determination and argues that the Brittish don't want the EU even though half the states in his union did want it, I just find it funny. I wasn't trying to imply anything else really.
But the majority of people DID want it. It's irrelevant where in the country those people are because that's not how a referendum works. A lot of London wanted to stay too but that doesn't mean they're being oppressed. That's just how democracy works.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 13, 2018, 10:39:17 pm
Northern Ireland isn’t in a political crisis in relation to them being in the YK, it’s their inability to agree on local governance.

Also Scotland might not consider themselves to be British, but they are part of the nation and when the vote happened it was as the country of he United Kingdom, not as England, Scotland etc. Let’s just put it this way, if We had all remained because Scotland wanted to remain then wouldn’t England be being kept against their will? But that would be okay? Scotland might be a separate cultural identity , but the political identity is still that of the UK.

The UK & EU are both unions (sure the UK union is a much stronger union compared to the EU). Anyways my point was that Farage uses self determination and argues that the Brittish don't want the EU even though half the states in his union did want it, I just find it funny. I wasn't trying to imply anything else really.

UK is a unitary state, not a federal/confederal union. UK has self-determination unlike say Spain or the USA, any part of it can leave if they so wish, you just don't get a Wallonia style veto. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 14, 2018, 08:36:55 am
It's so painful to see the Belgian prime minister get so worked up about Farage's comments about Belgium not being a nation... btw with an earpiece in, the sod doesn't even speak English well enough... Something I think is unacceptable at such a level of European politics... even though his own people doesn't even think there is something called 'Belgium'.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 14, 2018, 05:51:42 pm
It's so painful to see the Belgian prime minister get so worked up about Farage's comments about Belgium not being a nation... btw with an earpiece in, the sod doesn't even speak English well enough... Something I think is unacceptable at such a level of European politics... even though his own people doesn't even think there is something called 'Belgium'.

So obvious Farage wanted him to react like that and he just walked straight into it.

I find it kinda weird how Belgian politics is really hazardous and difficult to navigate, so you'd expect only the best would make it to the top, yet instead you get people like Michel, Verhofstadt and Van Rompuy...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 14, 2018, 07:37:10 pm
You'd get people who seem competant on the first glance but they're nothing more than oppertunists who luckily scored a few goals at the right time.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 14, 2018, 10:06:21 pm
I don't think UK is opressing other 'nations' and I think most of non English indenfiy as British (I just assumed that yea). But it just shows how hypocritical Farages' statements are by call in EU artificial false (whatever that false means sounds sth a muslim fanatic would say) while all the states are artificial and since nation is human invention it is hard to define it.
Also first time hearing about Cordican terorrism, when I was there 10 years ago (plot twist im older than 10) it was fine just looked like more wild place (more crime,  dirty streets), and people spoke Corsican sometimes. France is actually made out of 30 strong dialects but most of course can speak official French.

European identity could be a thing just like national identity developed and replace 'province'  identity.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 15, 2018, 08:38:19 pm
National identities have not replaced regional or local identities and identities do not have to replace another to exist.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 15, 2018, 09:50:07 pm
Yes an individual can have multiple identities, but in practice one of them has to dominate and therein lies the problem.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 15, 2018, 10:18:55 pm
National identities have not replaced regional or local identities and identities do not have to replace another to exist.
You are right of course but I meant replaced as the main identity/strongest, and I think for most people national identity is stronger than regional. But there are stronger identities like family, friends.... I dont think National and regional or national and European can be on the same level one will strongly dominate the other.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 15, 2018, 11:02:50 pm
You can't have one of the worst fertility rates in Europe but still expect to have one of the most generous welfare systems.

Looks like it's time for the Swedes to learn that same lesson, lol:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-15/look-at-what-s-going-to-happen-to-sweden-s-fabled-welfare-state

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 15, 2018, 11:07:59 pm
Gotta love Sweden, selflessly taking one for the team and showing the rest of Europe what will happen if they don't urgently change course.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 16, 2018, 12:08:09 am
What do you mean by that?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 16, 2018, 01:52:16 am
Whether it's allowing women to serve in combat, or people to change their gender, Sweden usually gets there first. Though to be fair they're also often the last to abandon insane ideas since they were practising state-sponsored eugenics programmes and sterilising people well into the 1970s. It's a little known fact that Sweden, per head of population, sterilised more people than Nazi Germany.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 16, 2018, 07:16:26 am
Whether it's allowing women to serve in combat, or people to change their gender, Sweden usually gets there first. Though to be fair they're also often the last to abandon insane ideas since they were practising state-sponsored eugenics programmes and sterilising people well into the 1970s. It's a little known fact that Sweden, per head of population, sterilised more people than Nazi Germany.
Poor Swedistan, you will be remembered for your vikings that went through entire Russia to get to Constantinople to get a job there.
Aren't women in Sweden forced to serve in combat?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 16, 2018, 09:22:25 am
No Sweden is does not have conscription.  You are thinking of Norway, which has male and female conscription.


EDIT: okay I have to correct myself. Sweden is now in the proces of going from a conscription force to an all-volunteer force. Their conscription only included men though.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 16, 2018, 09:47:52 am
OH NOES women in the military. HOW AWFUL.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on May 16, 2018, 10:08:10 am
OH NOES women in the military. HOW AWFUL.

BACK TO THE KITCHEN WITH THEM.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 16, 2018, 10:10:29 am
OH NOES women in the military. HOW AWFUL.

Enjoy 36% less muscle mass. Why don't we just have children and disabled serve in army? Such discrimination.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 16, 2018, 10:15:25 am
OH NOES women in the military. HOW AWFUL.

Enjoy 36% less muscle mass. Why don't we just have children and disabled serve in army? Such discrimination.
And yet many women serve with distinction. It’s a stupid comparison to make.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 16, 2018, 10:51:22 am
OH NOES women in the military. HOW AWFUL.

Enjoy 36% less muscle mass. Why don't we just have children and disabled serve in army? Such discrimination.
And yet many women serve with distinction. It’s a stupid comparison to make.
So do children.
http://www.macleans.ca/culture/why-children-are-good-soldiers/

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 16, 2018, 11:12:06 am
OH NOES women in the military. HOW AWFUL.

Enjoy 36% less muscle mass. Why don't we just have children and disabled serve in army? Such discrimination.
And yet many women serve with distinction. It’s a stupid comparison to make.
So do children.
http://www.macleans.ca/culture/why-children-are-good-soldiers/
What a silly argument. You’re trying to compare women in combat to children being forced to commit atrocities.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 16, 2018, 11:31:44 am
Even if women would be completely inept at doing anything at the front-lines (Which obviously is not true), they would still be able to do stuff like logistics.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 16, 2018, 12:06:07 pm
I have no problem with women in the military, I just think they should be banned from combat roles for obvious biological reasons.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 16, 2018, 12:29:01 pm
Which is complete bullshit. There is only one combat role you could actually ban women from in terms of biology and that is fighter pilot because of womb displacement or whatever but for the rest it is complete bullshit.

Everyone always cites the muscle mass thing. This can be removed by adequate physical training to a standard that is more than acceptable for a female soldier to serve on the front lines.
And being a combat-effective soldier these days doesn't mean the fittest wins. That has long since passed. IF you'd actually read into the material of the requirements of a modern soldier, especially in the counter-insurgency scheme, you'd hear terms such as 'strategic corporal, warrior-diplomat". Especially within the US armed forces a lot of firefights and all-out clusterfucks in urban environments were caused by disproportional use of violence to even non-violent situations. So much for hearts and minds. The on average different mindset of women and them being less aggressive in nature counts for more than sheer muscle mass.

Oh and btw, being in the infantry is suprisingly less demanding than people think. The biggest amount of physical strain in the long run in the infantry is carrying a heavy backpack for ugh amount of kilometres and even that is usually taken away by the presence of motorised vehicles. FIghting is strenuous but you aren't going to tell me the absolute worst (72-hour firefights) is something anyone can actually prepare for. That is a mental thing, much less physical.
I'd say things like air assault infantry (not even close to the largest portion of troops in the infantry) and recon positions are much more strenuous. Special forces is another thing entirely but it's an exception that can be ignored on the subject.


That being said, the combat role "because women don't have the strength to fight" has long since been proven to not be true. In Afghanistan and Iraq, supply troops were the units to be attacked the most and had some pretty fucking badass firefights. In fact, there are a lot of Female marine POGS with a supply MOS who have been under fire more than male marine grunts.
Oh and comabt roles in general is a wrong term to use, because you'd imply that women also wouldn't be able to drive tanks, fly attack helicopters and fly drones.

In general a defense organisation profits hugely if the organisation is diverse. With a homogenuous group you are comitting intellectual incest and your armed forces, esepecially on the intellectual side, need different world views, perspectives and opinions in order to be able to handle all the kinds of complex trasks there are.


Saying women for biological reasons as a generalistation should be forbidden to perform combat roles is just a retarded as saying skinny people won't be able to carry a heavy backpack and thus shouldnt perform combat roles and saying fat people cant fight because they're too slow.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 16, 2018, 12:50:16 pm
Modern infantry equipment is heavier than medieval full plate armor, with difference that plate armor weight is much more evenly spread. Of course women can fight and serve in army but biologically they have an disadvantage so it is not as effective, but yes you get women who are better soldiers than men, but when you look at sports you see they are no match for them (watch some men vs female tennis). Also if country loses a lot of men in war, few man can impregnate big amount of females, while this cant be done other way around. So it is much more effective to have men military and much less riskier. Female military was mostly made when there was no men left or as a reserve force (sparta). Also muscular military woman is not something most men desire so by joining the army they are as good as dead in terms of reproduction. So yes muscle is still very much needed but there are positions that you don't need them, but I would call those positions real military.
So professional women military is fine, mobilisation of women dumb unless you have no more men.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 16, 2018, 12:51:23 pm
OH NOES women in the military. HOW AWFUL.

Enjoy 36% less muscle mass. Why don't we just have children and disabled serve in army? Such discrimination.
And yet many women serve with distinction. It’s a stupid comparison to make.
So do children.
http://www.macleans.ca/culture/why-children-are-good-soldiers/
What a silly argument. You’re trying to compare women in combat to children being forced to commit atrocities.

Women forced into military, meaning forced to commit atrocities.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 16, 2018, 12:57:13 pm
Modern infantry equipment is heavier than medieval full plate armor, with difference that plate armor weight is much more evenly spread. Of course women can fight and serve in army but biologically they have an disadvantage so it is not as effective, but yes you get women who are better soldiers than men, but when you look at sports you see they are no match for them (watch some men vs female tennis). Also if country loses a lot of men in war, few man can impregnate big amount of females, while this cant be done other way around. So it is much more effective to have men military and much less riskier. Female military was mostly made when there was no men left or as a reserve force (sparta). Also muscular military woman is not something most men desire so by joining the army they are as good as dead in terms of reproduction. So yes muscle is still very much needed but there are positions that you don't need them, but I would call those positions real military.

Pretty much all of logistics, the entire navy with the exception of Marines and MARSOC, everything in the airforce including fighter pilots, helicopter pilots, intelligence, maintenance, planning, security, personnel management medical services in every branch of the military, including field medics, engineers.

According to you "not real military positions even though I have literally just named 75% of military positions..... You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


Women forced into military, meaning forced to commit atrocities.

True, but your comparison is still stupendously out of place.


Oh and your argument about not enough women in the country left to reproduce is also absolute garbage. Even with full conscription the military is a tiny portion of a nation's full populace.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 16, 2018, 01:00:49 pm
Yeah 75% of 'military'  is not military.

Might be tiny portion of female population but it is most fertil one, habe fun trying to impregnate 40 years olds.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 16, 2018, 01:05:13 pm
Common drafting age is 19-23. But okay, I guess after 2 years of service all women are then 40. Which is, by the way, with modern medical care a perfectly safe age to get kids at.

Yeah 75% of 'military'  is not military.

Do you want to say that to their faces as well? I think they'll proceed to show you exactly how military POGS are.
It's not as if they don't know to fight anyway.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 16, 2018, 02:22:24 pm
What a load of BS Riddlez. Women make better soldiers because they're not as aggressive? Hahaha


I've never heard of grunts being deployed as diplomats or whatever, but I'm sure in a counter-insurgency operation in the Middle East that Abdullah the village elder would love to talk to a white woman.

The 'muscle mass thing' and fitness are still the main requirement for infantry. Your solution to that is what, put everyone on motorised vehicles? In the Falklands War the ship carrying the helicopters was sunk, meaning the British had to march c100km in three days carrying full equipment across marsh terrain. Doubt many women soldiers could have done that.

I'm not disputing that women can fight if needed, I'm saying they're not very good at it compared to men. Human evolution has not prioritised the fighting role of women, they're not as strong and they're frailer, these are biological facts. Supposing all else is equal, a homogeneous male army will always defeat a mixed one. Though granted a woman being driven around on a truck carrying supplies can probably be relied upon to fire off a few rounds when needed it doesn't make them as effective as men.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 16, 2018, 03:12:26 pm
There’s a level required to pass training courses. Many women have passed them, end of discussion. You speak as though the biology thing is so black and white, but there are many women who have above average fitness and muscle mass and vice versa for men.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 16, 2018, 03:25:46 pm
There’s a level required to pass training courses. Many women have passed them, end of discussion. You speak as though the biology thing is so black and white, but there are many women who have above average fitness and muscle mass and vice versa for men.

They've usually passed the lower requirements for females. Even if women do pass the fitness tests that ordinarily apply to men their bodies are too frail for combat, just compare injury rates for male vs female professional athletes:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-gender-gap-in-sports-injuries-201512038708

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on May 16, 2018, 03:28:19 pm
There’s a level required to pass training courses. Many women have passed them, end of discussion. You speak as though the biology thing is so black and white, but there are many women who have above average fitness and muscle mass and vice versa for men.

That would be true if standards weren't lowered so females could get in.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 16, 2018, 03:34:34 pm
When Women were allowed into the British army in combat roles, General Nick Carter (the head of the army) said that they would not be lowering standards. The injuries thing is a point but if a woman passes all be necessary fitness tests and meets the army standards for both men and women then she’s clearly good enough for a combat role. Some men are more prone to injuries too. Looking at Jack Wilshere for this one.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 16, 2018, 05:08:07 pm
This is ridiculous
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 16, 2018, 05:17:32 pm
If you assume that if I say 'warrior-diplomat' you think I mean soldiers being deployed as diplomats no, thats not what I meant. Look up tje term it's interesting.

Proneness to injury doesnt really apply to the military since it's not a sports-injury sensitive type of physical thing. Injury more like breaking bones and completely tearing off joints, but usually only when falling.

That 100km march in the falklands. Yes women would definitely have it harder there bjt it is marching, it is easily trained and when jt does happen its more mental than physocal anyway.

You're dismissing the social benefits of having women in a sqiad far too easily Steven, humint and human relations is a key aspect of modern warfare and dont forget muslim women arent allowed to talk to foreign men. So in your entire intel scheme you already lose 50% of the population.

And yes, unlike a lot of stereotypes, agression is not by a long shot what the military looks for in most cases of applying violence. ESPECIALLY in COIN
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 16, 2018, 05:34:26 pm
If you assume that if I say 'warrior-diplomat' you think I mean soldiers being deployed as diplomats no, thats not what I meant. Look up tje term it's interesting.

Proneness to injury doesnt really apply to the military since it's not a sports-injury sensitive type of physical thing. Injury more like breaking bones and completely tearing off joints, but usually only when falling.

That 100km march in the falklands. Yes women would definitely have it harder there bjt it is marching, it is easily trained and when jt does happen its more mental than physocal anyway.

You're dismissing the social benefits of having women in a sqiad far too easily Steven, humint and human relations is a key aspect of modern warfare and dont forget muslim women arent allowed to talk to foreign men. So in your entire intel scheme you already lose 50% of the population.

And yes, unlike a lot of stereotypes, agression is not by a long shot what the military looks for in most cases of applying violence. ESPECIALLY in COIN
No modern military has used women in a real war (apart from Kurdistan but we dont really know what is happening there)   we don't know if having woman is beneficial for psychological effects, maybe men could turn on own women to rape them?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 16, 2018, 05:37:58 pm
You mean apart from both Britain and the US?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 16, 2018, 05:41:12 pm
maybe men could turn on own women to rape them?

What?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on May 16, 2018, 05:47:08 pm
maybe men could turn on own women to rape them?

What?
Sexual assault in the U.S. military is rampant.

It is my humble opinion that high testosterone dudes who work out and shoot guns all day should not be around women. This isn't any #MeToo shit, it's just a bad idea because something will go wrong.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 16, 2018, 05:50:50 pm
Or maybe it is due to the fact that these guys are constantly being reminded that they are the coolest dudes on the planet, protecting the most awesome country in the universe and that they have they are undefeatable, that killing is a normal thing and that guns are cool. It probably also does not help that they are almost no women around them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 16, 2018, 05:57:41 pm
If you assume that if I say 'warrior-diplomat' you think I mean soldiers being deployed as diplomats no, thats not what I meant. Look up tje term it's interesting.

Proneness to injury doesnt really apply to the military since it's not a sports-injury sensitive type of physical thing. Injury more like breaking bones and completely tearing off joints, but usually only when falling.

That 100km march in the falklands. Yes women would definitely have it harder there bjt it is marching, it is easily trained and when jt does happen its more mental than physocal anyway.

You're dismissing the social benefits of having women in a sqiad far too easily Steven, humint and human relations is a key aspect of modern warfare and dont forget muslim women arent allowed to talk to foreign men. So in your entire intel scheme you already lose 50% of the population.

And yes, unlike a lot of stereotypes, agression is not by a long shot what the military looks for in most cases of applying violence. ESPECIALLY in COIN

Not what grunts do, people who liaise with locals are usually officers via interpreters or more likely work for military intelligence. We're discussing a role that involves taking ground and/or holding it. Women lack the physical characteristics to do that as well as men, and a case can be made that they lack mental aggression too though I'm not as familiar with that side of the argument so I'm not using it here.

I mean come on, this is the product of natural selection, identifiable across most species and shouldn't be that controversial. Generally speaking can women fight? Yes. Can they do so as well as men? No. Perfectly fine to use them if you're desperate for manpower but as a modern, professional fighting force there's absolutely no need and they reduce combat effectiveness.

Muslim women aren't allowed to talk to anyone lol unless their husbands say so. Even in societies where you don't have that, the benefit of having a 'female perspective' is far outweighed by the drawbacks.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on May 16, 2018, 06:04:30 pm
If you assume that if I say 'warrior-diplomat' you think I mean soldiers being deployed as diplomats no, thats not what I meant. Look up tje term it's interesting.

Proneness to injury doesnt really apply to the military since it's not a sports-injury sensitive type of physical thing. Injury more like breaking bones and completely tearing off joints, but usually only when falling.

That 100km march in the falklands. Yes women would definitely have it harder there bjt it is marching, it is easily trained and when jt does happen its more mental than physocal anyway.

You're dismissing the social benefits of having women in a sqiad far too easily Steven, humint and human relations is a key aspect of modern warfare and dont forget muslim women arent allowed to talk to foreign men. So in your entire intel scheme you already lose 50% of the population.

And yes, unlike a lot of stereotypes, agression is not by a long shot what the military looks for in most cases of applying violence. ESPECIALLY in COIN

Not what grunts do, people who liaise with locals are usually officers via interpreters or more likely work for military intelligence. We're discussing a role that involves taking ground and/or holding it. Women lack the physical characteristics to do that as well as men, and a case can be made that they lack mental aggression too though I'm not as familiar with that side of the argument so I'm not using it here.

I mean come on, this is the product of natural selection, identifiable across most species and shouldn't be that controversial. Generally speaking can women fight? Yes. Can they do so as well as men? No. Perfectly fine to use them if you're desperate for manpower but as a modern, professional fighting force there's absolutely no need and they reduce combat effectiveness.

Muslim women aren't allowed to talk to anyone lol unless their husbands say so. Even in societies where you don't have that, the benefit of having a 'female perspective' is far outweighed by the drawbacks.
BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS TRIBE IN THE AMAZON WHERE THE WOMEN DO THE FIGHTING AND THE MEN DO THE COOKING?!?!? SHOULDN'T THAT PROVE THAT WOMEN ARE SUPERIOR
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 16, 2018, 06:07:55 pm
Or maybe it is due to the fact that these guys are constantly being reminded that they are the coolest dudes on the planet, protecting the most awesome country in the universe and that they have they are undefeatable, that killing is a normal thing and that guns are cool. It probably also does not help that they are almost no women around them.

The Virgin Bundeswehr vs the Chad U.S Army
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on May 16, 2018, 06:10:34 pm
Or maybe it is due to the fact that these guys are constantly being reminded that they are the coolest dudes on the planet, protecting the most awesome country in the universe and that they have they are undefeatable, that killing is a normal thing and that guns are cool. It probably also does not help that they are almost no women around them.

The Virgin Bundeswehr vs the Chad U.S Army
Quality kek out of that
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 16, 2018, 06:14:22 pm
I’m sure there are plenty of women who excel in the army. Can’t really disagree with that. Sure not all of them will be up to scratch but if they meet the requirements then go for it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 16, 2018, 06:27:50 pm
Or maybe it is due to the fact that these guys are constantly being reminded that they are the coolest dudes on the planet, protecting the most awesome country in the universe and that they have they are undefeatable, that killing is a normal thing and that guns are cool. It probably also does not help that they are almost no women around them.

The Virgin Bundeswehr vs the Chad U.S Army
Quality kek out of that

B R O O M S T I C K S  (https://i.imgur.com/IT7Y84t.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gi on May 16, 2018, 06:57:30 pm
Or maybe it is due to the fact that these guys are constantly being reminded that they are the coolest dudes on the planet, protecting the most awesome country in the universe and that they have they are undefeatable, that killing is a normal thing and that guns are cool. It probably also does not help that they are almost no women around them.
There's no way you typed this with a straight face
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on May 16, 2018, 08:02:22 pm
I've never been privy to a case where an actual tactical formation has seen anything good of female integration, at least in the U.S. Army.

Meme
(https://i.imgur.com/yYPWfHm.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on May 16, 2018, 08:09:01 pm
Or maybe it is due to the fact that these guys are constantly being reminded that they are the coolest dudes on the planet, protecting the most awesome country in the universe and that they have they are undefeatable, that killing is a normal thing and that guns are cool. It probably also does not help that they are almost no women around them.
There's no way you typed this with a straight face

I hope it's a copypasta because otherwise it's one of the saddest things I've read OMEGALUL
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on May 16, 2018, 08:27:34 pm
guns are cool tho
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 16, 2018, 08:50:56 pm
Guns are nice, and the US probably is one of the best countries on earth, can't tell because I have not been to all of them, but I have been to the US.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 16, 2018, 09:24:04 pm
No modern military has used women in a real war (apart from Kurdistan but we dont really know what is happening there)   we don't know if having woman is beneficial for psychological effects, maybe men could turn on own women to rape them?

Yes, they have. AS I said, the IDF, Norway, The Netherlands, mostly not in combat roles but definitely have seen combat a lot. The Serbs had a 50/50 male/female tank crew in general, the US has had a shitton of women in combat when they were in Marine supply, these guys got it worse than a lot of infantry platoons, plenty of women CAS pilots.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on May 16, 2018, 10:25:07 pm
I'd say there a good few women who can perform physical tasks just as well as men, although of course on average this is not the case. If they can prove to be as physically capable as men then there isn't really an issue of women in combat roles.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 16, 2018, 11:38:49 pm
You mean apart from both Britain and the US?
Haven't been in a real war since 1945/vietnam. If you think driving in a plane and dropping bombs is same as being down there shooting people in the face thats pretty weird.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 16, 2018, 11:43:59 pm
No modern military has used women in a real war (apart from Kurdistan but we dont really know what is happening there)   we don't know if having woman is beneficial for psychological effects, maybe men could turn on own women to rape them?

Yes, they have. AS I said, the IDF, Norway, The Netherlands, mostly not in combat roles but definitely have seen combat a lot. The Serbs had a 50/50 male/female tank crew in general, the US has had a shitton of women in combat when they were in Marine supply, these guys got it worse than a lot of infantry platoons, plenty of women CAS pilots.
What war was that Norwegian conquest of Jan Mayen? And Dutch reconquista of Ceylon? 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 17, 2018, 01:33:24 am
You mean apart from both Britain and the US?
Haven't been in a real war since 1945/vietnam. If you think driving in a plane and dropping bombs is same as being down there shooting people in the face thats pretty weird.
I’m sure the soldiers who have died would call them real wars
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 17, 2018, 08:11:54 am
You mean apart from both Britain and the US?
Haven't been in a real war since 1945/vietnam. If you think driving in a plane and dropping bombs is same as being down there shooting people in the face thats pretty weird.
I’m sure the soldiers who have died would call them real wars
Oh yeah those heavy loses so many US,  UK troops died.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 17, 2018, 09:31:01 am
You mean apart from both Britain and the US?
Haven't been in a real war since 1945/vietnam. If you think driving in a plane and dropping bombs is same as being down there shooting people in the face thats pretty weird.
I’m sure the soldiers who have died would call them real wars
Oh yeah those heavy loses so many US,  UK troops died.
Yeah they did. Besides, losses don’t determine if something is a war.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 17, 2018, 02:43:11 pm
You mean apart from both Britain and the US?
Haven't been in a real war since 1945/vietnam. If you think driving in a plane and dropping bombs is same as being down there shooting people in the face thats pretty weird.
I’m sure the soldiers who have died would call them real wars
Oh yeah those heavy loses so many US,  UK troops died.
Yeah they did. Besides, losses don’t determine if something is a war.
UK lost 7,415 soldiers since ww2.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 17, 2018, 03:45:57 pm
I’m sure the soldiers who have died would call them real wars

Yeah they did. Besides, losses don’t determine if something is a war.

Whoa... Toffee just totally shut down Toffee
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 17, 2018, 04:00:32 pm
Not really. I meant that the number of losses don’t determine wars, not that losses don’t matter at all. It was fairly obvious that’s what I was saying.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 17, 2018, 04:44:01 pm
Not really. I meant that the number of losses don’t determine wars, not that losses don’t matter at all. It was fairly obvious that’s what I was saying.

Alright next time just don't debate yourself, ok?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 17, 2018, 04:59:56 pm
Not really. I meant that the number of losses don’t determine wars, not that losses don’t matter at all. It was fairly obvious that’s what I was saying.

Alright next time just don't debate yourself, ok?
I’ll try my best but I may have gone crazy
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 18, 2018, 06:10:14 pm
Haven't been in a real war since 1945/vietnam. If you think driving in a plane and dropping bombs is same as being down there shooting people in the face thats pretty weird.

Have they not gotten to that part in history class yet Pero?

You literally missed the biggest tank battle the U.S. has ever fought, in the same war that also hadthe largest air assault operation in the world's history. Yes I am talking about Desert Sabre.
There was also the conventional part of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

And between '45 and Vietnam there have been a couple invasions amongst the the Korean War.
Please you're entitled to your opinion but you are kind of making a fool out of yourself now.



What war was that Norwegian conquest of Jan Mayen? And Dutch reconquista of Ceylon?

Oh please even if you're attempting to troll this is getting a bit ridiculous. Norway and the Netherlands both fought in Iraqi Freedom and Afghanistan. Just because its intrastate warfare doesn't mean there weren't any big engagements. Actually a lot of engagement fought by coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan during the insurgencies were more intense than During the Second Gulf War.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 18, 2018, 11:53:41 pm
Haven't been in a real war since 1945/vietnam. If you think driving in a plane and dropping bombs is same as being down there shooting people in the face thats pretty weird.

Have they not gotten to that part in history class yet Pero?

You literally missed the biggest tank battle the U.S. has ever fought, in the same war that also hadthe largest air assault operation in the world's history. Yes I am talking about Desert Sabre.
There was also the conventional part of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

And between '45 and Vietnam there have been a couple invasions amongst the the Korean War.
Please you're entitled to your opinion but you are kind of making a fool out of yourself now.



What war was that Norwegian conquest of Jan Mayen? And Dutch reconquista of Ceylon?

Oh please even if you're attempting to troll this is getting a bit ridiculous. Norway and the Netherlands both fought in Iraqi Freedom and Afghanistan. Just because its intrastate warfare doesn't mean there weren't any big engagements. Actually a lot of engagement fought by coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan during the insurgencies were more intense than During the Second Gulf War.
I meant since 1945 for UK and Vietnam for USA. Oh yeah the mighty golfu war where 300 coalition soldiers died (not including kuwait)  compared to 50k Iraqi on the other side.

I am not really saying those werent real wars but they werent wars that could give reliable information on effects of women in military.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 19, 2018, 08:58:27 am
OPCW found only chlorine in Douma, yet I haven't seen a single person cough in the videos and they were claiming gas had rotten smell, while we know chlorine has bleach-like smell. So most logical assumption is rebels gased a few people with chlorine (easy to make) and rest with carbon monoxide in basements. But those kids in videos are 100% healthy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Audiate on May 19, 2018, 09:28:47 am
bro what even is mcpero i cant tell if hes killed my high or intensified it tf you talking about bud

im convinced i just witnessed either the best trolling ive seen in years or the human embodiment of edge
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 19, 2018, 12:00:27 pm
You never know with 14 year olds
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 19, 2018, 06:14:28 pm
bro what even is mcpero i cant tell if hes killed my high or intensified it tf you talking about bud

im convinced i just witnessed either the best trolling ive seen in years or the human embodiment of edge

It's what happens when you only watch Russian media.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 19, 2018, 06:38:54 pm
You speak as if western media is any better. I mean really, did you see the coverage of what's happening in Jerusalem? 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 19, 2018, 06:49:21 pm
You speak as if western media is any better. I mean really, did you see the coverage of what's happening in Jerusalem?
You mean that bit where Israel shot a bunch of kids
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 19, 2018, 06:57:54 pm
You mean that bit where Israel shot a bunch of kids

Palestinian kids that were used as human shields by the same innocent and sweet Palestinian "protesters", yes.

Looks like you're giving McPero some real competition when it comes to moronic, uninformed one-liners
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 19, 2018, 06:59:12 pm
You mean that bit where Israel shot a bunch of kids

Palestinian kids that were used as human shields by the same innocent and sweet Palestinian "protesters", yes.
Weren’t they just moving up to a fence? Hardly justification to shoot them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 19, 2018, 06:59:49 pm
Looks like you're giving McPero some real competition when it comes to moronic, uninformed one-liners
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 19, 2018, 07:04:55 pm
Looks like you're giving McPero some real competition when it comes to moronic, uninformed one-liners
It looks like there were some instigators but was there any immediate danger to Israeli lives? Because if so that's not justification to shoot those children, human shields or not. The fact that you can't discuss a topic without resorting to insults says a lot about you, not me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Audiate on May 19, 2018, 07:33:52 pm
Palestinian kids that were used as human shields by the same innocent and sweet Palestinian "protesters", yes. 

jfc dude what did you just say

they did not grab their own children, lift them up to cover their bodies, and advance on the israelis with intent to do them harm and with suspect that they would be shot at, and were thus suspecting to be in need of the child-sized human shields, my fucking god dude, are you sane?

are you REALLY saying the palestinians are the bad guys in this issue? the israelis have been destroying palestinian families for decades, and are a major wedge against the well-being and future restabilization and recovery of the entire middle east, and dont you dare call me an anti-semite for even proposing that

was faris odeh really going to do damage to any israeli (***soldier!!!***, they were armed and equipped soldiers with helmets and body armor and tanks advancing in gaza during the al-aqsa intifada, not helpless victim civilians or something) by throwing little rocks at a fucking tank? was he truly a threat to the israeli people, or even those armed soldiers? can you truly say his death by gunfire was justifiable on the israeli soldiers' parts, and is the killing of any palestinian child, protester or not, peaceful or aggravated or upset, at the hands of israelis since then any different or more/less justifiable?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 19, 2018, 07:47:59 pm
There is something called proportional violence after all...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on May 19, 2018, 08:01:14 pm
Nah the Palestinians just suck at throwing
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 19, 2018, 08:53:58 pm
they did not grab their own children, lift them up to cover their bodies, and advance on the israelis with intent to do them harm and with suspect that they would be shot at, and were thus suspecting to be in need of the child-sized human shields, my fucking god dude, are you sane?

Hamas has an extensive history of encouraging civilians to get themselves shot or injured in order to garner attention from western media and the UN. Historically speaking, Palestinian civilians have always been encouraged to do so by the "government", sometimes blatantly using speakers on the Gaza strip (of which no Israelis live, funnily enough). Some have even been paid to do it. (https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/981809929798520832) It's hardly surprising that Hamas has resorted to pushing children into the Israeli troops' line of fire.  After all, they've used children for cover quite effectively in the past. (http://www.thetower.org/1955-un-report-confirms-hamas-stored-and-fired-weapons-from-un-schools/)

are you REALLY saying the palestinians are the bad guys in this issue? the israelis have been destroying palestinian families for decades, and are a major wedge against the well-being and future restabilization and recovery of the entire middle east, and dont you dare call me an anti-semite for even proposing that

It should be quite obvious that Hamas, and any civilians acting on behalf of Hamas, have been the main catalyst for violence and destruction at many Israeli-Palestinian clashes over the past year. The Palestinians are not looking for a peaceful resolution to their conflict, something that has been increasing apparent with this last outright assault on the Israeli border. Flying swastika kites armed with firebombs and coming on live television stating that you want to "burn Jews like the Nazis" is pretty far from pacifism and peaceful protest.

was faris odeh really going to do damage to any israeli (***soldier!!!***, they were armed and equipped soldiers with helmets and body armor and tanks advancing in gaza during the al-aqsa intifada, not helpless victim civilians or something) by throwing little rocks at a fucking tank? was he truly a threat to the israeli people, or even those armed soldiers? can you truly say his death by gunfire was justifiable on the israeli soldiers' parts, and is the killing of any palestinian child, protester or not, peaceful or aggravated or upset, at the hands of israelis since then any different or more/less justifiable?

I'm not denying that exceptional cases of brutality exist, but I believe they are inevitable given the sheer number of assault and harassment directed at Israeli troops, combined with the willingness of Palestinians to put themselves in harm way. Both sides are guilty of such atrocities. (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/19/world/middleeast/palestinian-israel-settlement-attack.html)

All in all, Israel has been pretty commendable with how they acted during this most recent assault on their border: 40,000 "protesters", the majority acting extremely violently, and only ~60 deaths (50 of them being outspoken terrorists). Had the masses of protesters not been held off by the Israeli military and broken through the border, I suspect the number of causalities would have been much higher.

Also: https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/50-Hamas-members-reportedly-killed-during-Mondays-Gaza-protests-556627

Yeah, you're backing the wrong side here.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 19, 2018, 09:19:39 pm
So anybody is to blame except the soldiers who shot the children? As Riddlez said, Proportional response. There was no imminent threat to Israeli lives so why were shots fired?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 19, 2018, 10:26:59 pm
Yes and according to humanitarian and war laws it is alwasy the soldier's fault if they use disproportional violence. Any order to commit such atrocities are in nature illegal and therefore punishable when obeyed. As a soldier, you cannot be pressured into using disproportionate violence.

You gave to be able to prove intent to kill when you have shot a civilian =P even people walking towards you with a knife in their hand do not allow for you to shoot them. So using lethal weapon rounds against people throwing rocks at you doesn't really compute. The worst thing you'd be able to do to them is shooting rubber bullets (but even that is questionable) and beating them with a stick...

Each individual soldier is punishable, as well as the institution who warrented this attack.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 20, 2018, 12:06:10 am
Yes and according to humanitarian and war laws it is alwasy the soldier's fault if they use disproportional violence. Any order to commit such atrocities are in nature illegal and therefore punishable when obeyed. As a soldier, you cannot be pressured into using disproportionate violence.

You gave to be able to prove intent to kill when you have shot a civilian =P even people walking towards you with a knife in their hand do not allow for you to shoot them. So using lethal weapon rounds against people throwing rocks at you doesn't really compute. The worst thing you'd be able to do to them is shooting rubber bullets (but even that is questionable) and beating them with a stick...

Each individual soldier is punishable, as well as the institution who warrented this attack.

Nothing is going to come of it though because it's Palestinians heh.

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unMuQbVdINQ
[close]

Trump the God Emperor have spoken.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Audiate on May 20, 2018, 12:11:03 am
Terrorism does not equate to evil to me. There's people who are terrorists for terrible causes, but there are people who fight as rebels for their beliefs and their homes and are labeled as terrorists by those who they are against and I don't equate them to the terribleness of known terror organizations. I'm not on the right side, there is no "correct" side, you're a moron for thinking it works like that. I stand for what I believe is right in the world, and I believe that the Palestinian people are not the oppressors here, not the aggressors here, and are certainly not the ones in the wrong. The most terrible part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is that so few of either side are familiar with what pre-Israel Palestine was like. All they know is the conflict between the two, and its now become a generational, escalating conflict, and with the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, Palestinians feel that their lives are at an end. It's not a surprise many would die to see their people live.

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unMuQbVdINQ
[close]

Trump the God Emperor have spoken.

k e e k
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 20, 2018, 01:08:34 am
Yes and according to humanitarian and war laws it is alwasy the soldier's fault if they use disproportional violence. Any order to commit such atrocities are in nature illegal and therefore punishable when obeyed. As a soldier, you cannot be pressured into using disproportionate violence.

You gave to be able to prove intent to kill when you have shot a civilian =P even people walking towards you with a knife in their hand do not allow for you to shoot them. So using lethal weapon rounds against people throwing rocks at you doesn't really compute. The worst thing you'd be able to do to them is shooting rubber bullets (but even that is questionable) and beating them with a stick...

Each individual soldier is punishable, as well as the institution who warrented this attack.

Attacking/attempting to breach the border of most countries will get you shot. CBP don't use their tasers that often.

Terrorism does not equate to evil to me. There's people who are terrorists for terrible causes, but there are people who fight as rebels for their beliefs and their homes and are labeled as terrorists by those who they are against and I don't equate them to the terribleness of known terror organizations. I'm not on the right side, there is no "correct" side, you're a moron for thinking it works like that. I stand for what I believe is right in the world, and I believe that the Palestinian people are not the oppressors here, not the aggressors here, and are certainly not the ones in the wrong. The most terrible part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is that so few of either side are familiar with what pre-Israel Palestine was like. All they know is the conflict between the two, and its now become a generational, escalating conflict, and with the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, Palestinians feel that their lives are at an end. It's not a surprise many would die to see their people live.

Epic. I'm not very familiar with this copypasta.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 20, 2018, 01:15:58 am
Ah so moving to a border fence got those kids shot. I understand now
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 20, 2018, 01:25:56 am
Looks like you're giving McPero some real competition when it comes to moronic, uninformed one-liners
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 20, 2018, 01:33:41 am
Funny you keep reverting back to that when I was only repeating what you said really. The facts are here: No imminent threat to the lives of the soldiers; they shoot children. How can you defend that?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 20, 2018, 01:35:19 am
B O R D E R  L A W
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 20, 2018, 01:36:41 am
Border laws don’t involve shooting children. You’re really going far out on that one.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 20, 2018, 02:43:57 am
Alright. Solve the simultaneous equations:

y - 2x - 4 = 0
4x² + y² + 20x = 0 (Total 7 marks)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Audiate on May 20, 2018, 05:12:35 am
Gordo, you're impressive in the worst way possible.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on May 20, 2018, 05:54:16 am
Border laws don’t involve shooting children. You’re really going far out on that one.

Border laws involve everyone. Kinda stupid to send your kids to a border with your long-time enemy, isn't it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 20, 2018, 08:21:08 am
bro what even is mcpero i cant tell if hes killed my high or intensified it tf you talking about bud

im convinced i just witnessed either the best trolling ive seen in years or the human embodiment of edge
Yeah easiest thing to do is just call someone retarded,  troll and a 14 years old not giving a single argument?
Are you saying you saw a single person cough?
Does chlorine have rotten smell?

Gordo:
X1=-4
X2=-1/2
Y1=-4
Y2=3
I was at least expecting complex numbers.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 20, 2018, 09:31:23 am
Border laws don’t involve shooting children. You’re really going far out on that one.

Border laws involve everyone. Kinda stupid to send your kids to a border with your long-time enemy, isn't it?
That doesn’t justify shooting them. Just listen to yourselves. You’re actually trying to defend the killing of children. Did those children pose a threat to life? I doubt it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 20, 2018, 10:56:37 am
Gordo:
X1=-4
X2=-1/2
Y1=-4
Y2=3
I was at least expecting complex numbers.

Good work. Complex numbers? Nah, we have to give the NAs a chance ;)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 20, 2018, 01:54:27 pm
Attacking/attempting to breach the border of most countries will get you shot. CBP don't use their tasers that often.
[/quote

Maybe I am generalising, but the police forces of the U.S. don't really have such a great track record with using proportional violence.

Proportionality of violence and escalating up the violence chain is still something that EVERYONE carrying whatever type of weapon is required to observe. Approaching a border fence does NOT constitute lethal force. It is literally that simple. There are no vital interests of the state at stake when someone approaches a border fence.... at least not an interest that has to be solved with violence. And this is not even a matter of political perspective or orientation to be discussed... this is signed into law internationally.

Border laws involve everyone. Kinda stupid to send your kids to a border with your long-time enemy, isn't it?

Yes astronomically stupid. Still does not constitute lethal force...


Literally as a soldier guarding a military compound in Afghanistan you're not allowed to immediately shoot someone who walks towards the gate with a large coat on screaming "I HAVE A BOMB". You have to first instruct him to lie on the floor and stfu. Only if he doesn't comply after being threatened with lethal force and a warning shot was fired... THEN you are allowed to shoot him/her.

Is this a comperable situation to borders? Not even because violence escalation is even more strict concerning police matters.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on May 20, 2018, 01:54:45 pm
bro what even is mcpero i cant tell if hes killed my high or intensified it tf you talking about bud

im convinced i just witnessed either the best trolling ive seen in years or the human embodiment of edge
Yeah easiest thing to do is just call someone retarded,  troll and a 14 years old not giving a single argument?
Are you saying you saw a single person cough?
Does chlorine have rotten smell?

Gordo:
X1=-4
X2=-1/2
Y1=-4
Y2=3
I was at least expecting complex numbers.

have you ever smelled a chlorine
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 20, 2018, 05:18:06 pm
bro what even is mcpero i cant tell if hes killed my high or intensified it tf you talking about bud

im convinced i just witnessed either the best trolling ive seen in years or the human embodiment of edge
Yeah easiest thing to do is just call someone retarded,  troll and a 14 years old not giving a single argument?
Are you saying you saw a single person cough?
Does chlorine have rotten smell?

Gordo:
X1=-4
X2=-1/2
Y1=-4
Y2=3
I was at least expecting complex numbers.

have you ever smelled a chlorine
No but I think a few thousand have in ww1 and people that work in labs smell it sometimes. And they will tell you it's not rotting smell.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 20, 2018, 05:21:16 pm
Border laws don’t involve shooting children. You’re really going far out on that one.

Border laws involve everyone. Kinda stupid to send your kids to a border with your long-time enemy, isn't it?
That doesn’t justify shooting them. Just listen to yourselves. You’re actually trying to defend the killing of children. Did those children pose a threat to life? I doubt it.
I mean it is okay from international law point of view to shoot kids because of border law. That just shows that international laws are a meme and that Israeli government is 100% monsters. And Israeli people are one of the most brainwashed people ever.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 20, 2018, 05:30:30 pm
it is okay from international law point of view to shoot kids because of border law.


Uhm.... no it isn't....
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 21, 2018, 02:51:12 pm
it is okay from international law point of view to shoot kids because of border law.


Uhm.... no it isn't....
Law that is not enforced is not a law.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 21, 2018, 03:43:11 pm
it is okay from international law point of view to shoot kids because of border law.


Uhm.... no it isn't....
Law that is not enforced is not a law.
Yes it is
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 21, 2018, 09:07:05 pm
it is okay from international law point of view to shoot kids because of border law.


Uhm.... no it isn't....
Law that is not enforced is not a law.
Yes it is
It is just as much as I am king of France.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 21, 2018, 09:13:09 pm
it is okay from international law point of view to shoot kids because of border law.


Uhm.... no it isn't....
Law that is not enforced is not a law.
Yes it is
It is just as much as I am king of France.
You're talking shit. If something is written into law then it's law. Its fact, not debate.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 21, 2018, 09:20:43 pm
Step 1) Don't attempt to cross the fence of the Israeli border illegally
Step 2) Avoid getting shot

We have to get this groundbreaking revelation to the Palestinians as soon as possible
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 21, 2018, 09:35:12 pm
Step 1) Don't attempt to cross the fence of the Israeli border illegally
Step 2) Avoid getting shot

We have to get this groundbreaking revelation to the Palestinians as soon as possible
Other countries manage to not shoot kids. But I’m sure those children posed a great threat to heavily armed soldiers. I guess that’s what they tell themselves so they can sleep at night.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 21, 2018, 09:57:13 pm
it is okay from international law point of view to shoot kids because of border law.


Uhm.... no it isn't....
Law that is not enforced is not a law.
Yes it is
It is just as much as I am king of France.
You're talking shit. If something is written into law then it's law. Its fact, not debate.
You literally just said 'if something is written it is a fact, not debate'. A law being written and signed by most of the countries that is not enforced is just letters on paper, it is not de facto law.

Step 1) Don't attempt to cross the fence of the Israeli border illegally
Step 2) Avoid getting shot

We have to get this groundbreaking revelation to the Palestinians as soon as possible
I mean it is not like Palestinians knew what is going to happen, they did it to gain international favor and attention. You have to have a pretty good reason to send your kids to be shot just to get attention, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm what could the the reason?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 21, 2018, 10:38:44 pm
If something is written into law then it is law. It’s not that hard a concept to grasp. Law is a bit of paper and law enforcement is there to adhere to it. Sometimes it doesn’t but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s law.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on May 21, 2018, 11:09:39 pm
It's quite amusing reading an argument over the manifestation of literal and metaphorical law.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on May 21, 2018, 11:31:24 pm
Step 1) Don't attempt to cross the fence of the Israeli border illegally
Step 2) Avoid getting shot

We have to get this groundbreaking revelation to the Palestinians as soon as possible
Other countries manage to not shoot kids. But I’m sure those children posed a great threat to heavily armed soldiers. I guess that’s what they tell themselves so they can sleep at night.
Israel = Jews. Jews are God's people. Jews killing Palestinians can thus be interpreted as..
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpVfcZ0ZcFM

I'll see myself out
[close]

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on May 22, 2018, 12:18:29 am
Jesus saw through them and their lies. Kicked them out the temple for breaking laws. Then he opened up the recruitment on the GF server.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Audiate on May 22, 2018, 04:11:20 am
bro what even is mcpero i cant tell if hes killed my high or intensified it tf you talking about bud

im convinced i just witnessed either the best trolling ive seen in years or the human embodiment of edge

Yeah easiest thing to do is just call someone retarded,  troll and a 14 years old not giving a single argument?

Where in my post was any of that? Are you well?



Is it illegal to j-walk in some regions and areas? Yes. Is it heavily enforced? Not always. Is it no longer a law because of that? Obviously no, it's still the law. Does the enforcement of the law being often unenforced because there aren't always officers around to make anything out of it when it happens mean it's any less of a law? Obviously no, it is still the law. Does it often going unenforced mean officers wont enforce it when they are around and can enforce it, because so many people get away with it when they're not there? No.

Israel is committing international crimes but isn't being held accountable for them--the law is being broken, no action is being taken. All that aside I can't believe you view Israel as in the right here, and Palestinians being the bad guys. That is fucking mind blowing. THAT'S why I thought you had to be trolling (again, I mentioned nothing about your mental capability or your age). But now it's clear that you're just relentless in your trolling efforts to an unhealthy degree, or you're actually just a terrible human being.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 22, 2018, 05:55:08 am
Are you well?

Still my favourite part of the post
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 22, 2018, 03:51:27 pm
bro what even is mcpero i cant tell if hes killed my high or intensified it tf you talking about bud

im convinced i just witnessed either the best trolling ive seen in years or the human embodiment of edge

Yeah easiest thing to do is just call someone retarded,  troll and a 14 years old not giving a single argument?

Where in my post was any of that? Are you well?



Is it illegal to j-walk in some regions and areas? Yes. Is it heavily enforced? Not always. Is it no longer a law because of that? Obviously no, it's still the law. Does the enforcement of the law being often unenforced because there aren't always officers around to make anything out of it when it happens mean it's any less of a law? Obviously no, it is still the law. Does it often going unenforced mean officers wont enforce it when they are around and can enforce it, because so many people get away with it when they're not there? No.

Israel is committing international crimes but isn't being held accountable for them--the law is being broken, no action is being taken. All that aside I can't believe you view Israel as in the right here, and Palestinians being the bad guys. That is fucking mind blowing. THAT'S why I thought you had to be trolling (again, I mentioned nothing about your mental capability or your age). But now it's clear that you're just relentless in your trolling efforts to an unhealthy degree, or you're actually just a terrible human being.
I posted that in general as other people do/did that. By that I mean call people stuff and instead of bringing arguments.   Telling them why they think they are wrong, I don't mind getting talked shit I would just rather have a constructive reply. 

You clearly got everything wrong. I was talking about 'gas attack'  in Syria when you posted that. I actually don't support Israel in anything, their country was created by 2000 years old claim and they firmly believe they are the best nation in the world choosen by God and that rest should serve them, basically Hitler's insane political views. But I believe part of the blame is on Palestine leadership that this happened. I am basically criticising international laws/their enforcement since it is so biased towards main NATO members. When Russia breaks international law it gets sanctioned, Israel shooting kids on border, thumbs up removed some terrorist kebab.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 22, 2018, 06:19:20 pm
Hold on there McPero...

1. Israel isn't a NATO member...
2. If you're referring to the United States in terms of international law, the U.S. hasn't signed most of the treaties in regards to weapons usage and such.
3. Israel's security politics do not, in any way whatsoever,  closely resemble those of Hitler....

There is a major drive for Israel's security politics that is also the cause for their tendency to not really care about international law and humanitarian rights, but it's a bit complex. If people are really interested I can tell, otherwise you guys'll just have to take my word for it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 22, 2018, 06:51:43 pm
2. If you're referring to the United States in terms of international law, the U.S. hasn't signed most of the treaties in regards to weapons usage and such.

Not technically true as there's a difference between signing and ratifying, but I understand your point. The USA has actually signed most of these treaties but has a habit of not ratifying them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 22, 2018, 08:04:03 pm
Hold on there McPero...

1. Israel isn't a NATO member...
2. If you're referring to the United States in terms of international law, the U.S. hasn't signed most of the treaties in regards to weapons usage and such.
3. Israel's security politics do not, in any way whatsoever,  closely resemble those of Hitler....

There is a major drive for Israel's security politics that is also the cause for their tendency to not really care about international law and humanitarian rights, but it's a bit complex. If people are really interested I can tell, otherwise you guys'll just have to take my word for it.
They are close ally of USA but okay NATO and Israel den.  I was talking about Israeli ideology not their security policies.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 22, 2018, 08:28:51 pm
They go, and have always gone, almost hand in hand. The actions Israel takes aren't dominated by ideology: they have their own country. The things they're doing is for the reason of keeping the security of that country. Ideology is just a way of them to sell it to the people.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Keita on May 22, 2018, 08:45:24 pm
lol look at all these people claiming to be experts here
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on May 22, 2018, 08:50:24 pm
lol look at all these people claiming to be experts here

Well I'd consider myself to not be ignorant in the matter.... I do study 'War Studies' after all and have studied global and regional security measures to a fair degree of detail.

So I'll choose not to take this personally.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 22, 2018, 10:34:29 pm
https://www.wired.com/story/europes-new-privacy-law-will-change-the-web-and-more/

For Eurosceptics!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 22, 2018, 11:28:40 pm
https://www.wired.com/story/europes-new-privacy-law-will-change-the-web-and-more/

For Eurosceptics!

Crap idea, if they can't get your data then expect more pay walls, less services or both. Only winner from this is the Asian tech industry which now has a major competitive advantage.

Oh and I know everyone likes an 'EU good' story but as is so often the case it looks like GDPR is actually based off of international standards made in Geneva, not Brussels (ISO 27001 to be exact). Congrats to EU bureaucrats for lifting the work of others and passing it off as their own.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on May 23, 2018, 03:59:05 am
I doubt Euro-skeptics are going to consider some beefed up privacy laws to be an outcome worth the transnational governance.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 23, 2018, 05:59:23 am
lol look at all these people claiming to be experts here
Spoiler
https://youtu.be/ubDCPA0ph0k
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 23, 2018, 06:46:04 am
https://www.wired.com/story/europes-new-privacy-law-will-change-the-web-and-more/

For Eurosceptics!

Crap idea, if they can't get your data then expect more pay walls, less services or both. Only winner from this is the Asian tech industry which now has a major competitive advantage.

Oh and I know everyone likes an 'EU good' story but as is so often the case it looks like GDPR is actually based off of international standards made in Geneva, not Brussels (ISO 27001 to be exact). Congrats to EU bureaucrats for lifting the work of others and passing it off as their own.

I'd rather pay more to have my privacy intact tbh.
Even though there is no evidence suggesting this will happen.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 23, 2018, 05:14:02 pm
https://www.wired.com/story/europes-new-privacy-law-will-change-the-web-and-more/

For Eurosceptics!

Doesn't really do anything for British skeptics since the Snoopers' Charter already gives the majority of public sector agencies access to an individual's data/internet history.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 23, 2018, 06:44:37 pm
True. Also 'Porn Passes' are going to be a massive risk too when introduced.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/porn-passes-newsagents-shops-online-pornography-website-id-uk-government-a8349281.html

Can't wait for senior politicians to get caught buying them lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 23, 2018, 07:03:40 pm
That's a UK thing though.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 23, 2018, 07:20:42 pm
Ofc, but why should I care about massive restrictions on private companies using my data when the government can access it *extremely* easily and will undoubtedly abuse it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 23, 2018, 07:23:45 pm
Ofc, but why should I care about massive restrictions on private companies using my data when the government can access it *extremely* easily and will undoubtedly abuse it?
Exactly. Private companies have less movtives to abuse personal that than state does.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 23, 2018, 07:27:13 pm
Ofc, but why should I care about massive restrictions on private companies using my data when the government can access it *extremely* easily and will undoubtedly abuse it?
Because it's better than nothing? But yeah the UK is in a sad state when it comes to privacy.

Ofc, but why should I care about massive restrictions on private companies using my data when the government can access it *extremely* easily and will undoubtedly abuse it?
Exactly. Private companies have less movtives to abuse personal that than state does.
And you support Russia?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on May 23, 2018, 08:19:39 pm
GDPR or not, EU sucks anyway!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 23, 2018, 08:30:33 pm
Ofc, but why should I care about massive restrictions on private companies using my data when the government can access it *extremely* easily and will undoubtedly abuse it?
Because it's better than nothing? But yeah the UK is in a sad state when it comes to privacy.

Ofc, but why should I care about massive restrictions on private companies using my data when the government can access it *extremely* easily and will undoubtedly abuse it?
Exactly. Private companies have less movtives to abuse personal that than state does.
And you support Russia?
I support Russia in some things,  but I don't generally support it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 23, 2018, 09:57:40 pm
GDPR or not, EU sucks anyway!

There's pros and cons with the EU but overall I support it.

Ofc, but why should I care about massive restrictions on private companies using my data when the government can access it *extremely* easily and will undoubtedly abuse it?
Because it's better than nothing? But yeah the UK is in a sad state when it comes to privacy.

Ofc, but why should I care about massive restrictions on private companies using my data when the government can access it *extremely* easily and will undoubtedly abuse it?
Exactly. Private companies have less movtives to abuse personal that than state does.
And you support Russia?
I support Russia in some things,  but I don't generally support it.

Right...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 23, 2018, 09:59:11 pm
Ofc, but why should I care about massive restrictions on private companies using my data when the government can access it *extremely* easily and will undoubtedly abuse it?
Because it's better than nothing? But yeah the UK is in a sad state when it comes to privacy.

Better than nothing? The two things are linked, this is a massive power grab by the state at the expense of private business and citizens. This has been planned in the UK since Blair and the policy has been supported by both major parties in Parliament. We've had plenty of warning:
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/internet-regulation-twitter-facebook-theresa-may-karen-bradley-social-media-levy-a7994131.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 23, 2018, 10:24:32 pm
You're mixing EU policy with UK policy. Why?
Besides is corperations not being allowed to spy on you better than they being allowed?
Either way you're leaving the EU soon so you probably don't have to worry about keeping the law.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 23, 2018, 11:07:48 pm
British get out reeeeee
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 23, 2018, 11:35:42 pm
British get out reeeeee

You're goddamn right!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 24, 2018, 12:29:41 am
You're mixing EU policy with UK policy. Why?
Besides is corperations not being allowed to spy on you better than they being allowed?
Either way you're leaving the EU soon so you probably don't have to worry about keeping the law.

I'm not actually. GDPR had UK input at EU level and we've already committed to keeping it on the books post-Brexit.

The worst thing a corporation can do is try and sell me stuff with bespoke advertising. I'd rather they weren't allowed to get so much of my data but on balance I'm not prepared to pay for their services, plus this will inhibit their operations in a way that is bad for me as a consumer.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 24, 2018, 12:38:32 am
Well you can still give them your information. But you have to remember there is also companies like Cambridge Analytica who use your information for political purposes.

The potential economic impacts haven't been seen yet we'll just have to wait and see how things will change but on paper this all sounds really good.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 24, 2018, 02:34:49 am
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44229606
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 24, 2018, 06:03:45 am
GDPR or not, EU sucks anyway!

There's pros and cons with the EU but overall I support it.

Ofc, but why should I care about massive restrictions on private companies using my data when the government can access it *extremely* easily and will undoubtedly abuse it?
Because it's better than nothing? But yeah the UK is in a sad state when it comes to privacy.

Ofc, but why should I care about massive restrictions on private companies using my data when the government can access it *extremely* easily and will undoubtedly abuse it?
Exactly. Private companies have less movtives to abuse personal that than state does.
And you support Russia?
I support Russia in some things,  but I don't generally support it.

Right...
Only thing I generally support is Red Velvet.

Spoiler
(https://data.whicdn.com/images/144037345/large.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 24, 2018, 12:42:52 pm
Hey look, the Russian army shot down MH17. Shocking.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 24, 2018, 12:55:13 pm
Hey look, the Russian army shot down MH17. Shocking.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 24, 2018, 12:56:04 pm
Hey look, the Russian army shot down MH17. Shocking.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 24, 2018, 05:25:15 pm
As predicted, EU consumers have taken a hit. Most of it's temporary disruption but some firms have pulled out permanently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44239126
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 24, 2018, 08:48:25 pm
Hey look, the Russian army shot down MH17. Shocking.
And I was so sure it was Uganda.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 24, 2018, 11:12:58 pm
As predicted, EU consumers have taken a hit. Most of it's temporary disruption but some firms have pulled out permanently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44239126

Doesn't seem like a problem worth mentioning to me but I guess we'll see tomorrow how many sites are going to get blocked.

Also you can use VPN.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 24, 2018, 11:38:55 pm
FSE will be permanently blocked for anyone in Europe.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 24, 2018, 11:40:23 pm
Good.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on May 25, 2018, 02:49:29 am
Deliverance at last.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 25, 2018, 08:54:32 am
I'm still here, dang it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 25, 2018, 12:30:19 pm
But who will be filling FSE coffers then?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 25, 2018, 09:04:32 pm
Interesting developments today, regarding a grooming trial & Tommy Robinson.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 25, 2018, 09:25:12 pm
Interesting developments today, regarding a grooming trial & Tommy Robinson.
I’ve heard about that but it’s hard to judge what he’s done before any evidence is put forward. I assume he’s been going on his usual anti-Muslim tirade again.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 25, 2018, 09:55:01 pm
https://youtu.be/wsL4n3NDoo4
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 25, 2018, 11:17:36 pm
Interesting developments today, regarding a grooming trial & Tommy Robinson.
I’ve heard about that but it’s hard to judge what he’s done before any evidence is put forward. I assume he’s been going on his usual anti-Muslim tirade again.

As a lawyer, I should probably warn you guys to be careful what you say as this is an on-going case...

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 26, 2018, 12:37:20 am
Yup, best save this one for another day.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 02:27:05 am
Damn, bad news coming out of Ireland re: legalising abortion.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on May 26, 2018, 02:32:51 am
At least now I don't have to go through with our teamspeak pact to learn Irish if they kept it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 02:54:59 am
Damn, bad news coming out of Ireland re: legalising abortion.
Yeah because it’s bad that a foetus with a fatal abnormality can be terminated /s
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 04:10:15 am
Damn, bad news coming out of Ireland re: legalising abortion.
Yeah because it’s bad that a foetus with a fatal abnormality can be terminated /s

That's an incredibly minor aspect of it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 04:34:55 am
Damn, bad news coming out of Ireland re: legalising abortion.
Yeah because it’s bad that a foetus with a fatal abnormality can be terminated /s

That's an incredibly minor aspect of it.
It’s really not at all. Many Irish women travel to the UK every year to terminate their pregnancies due to things like fatal abnormalities or pregnancies caused via rape or incest. Under the previous amendment all of those reasons were disregarded despite the obvious health impacts of both the feutus and potentially the mother.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 26, 2018, 10:14:40 am
Damn, bad news coming out of Ireland re: legalising abortion.
Yeah because it’s bad that a foetus with a fatal abnormality can be terminated /s

That's an incredibly minor aspect of it.
It’s really not at all. Many Irish women travel to the UK every year to terminate their pregnancies due to things like fatal abnormalities or pregnancies caused via rape or incest. Under the previous amendment all of those reasons were disregarded despite the obvious health impacts of both the feutus and potentially the mother.
Well abortion can cause infertility, that's about it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 26, 2018, 11:14:30 am
Abortions aren't just going to stop because you make it illegal it will just make it more dangerous for the women who seek them. The US is an example of this.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 26, 2018, 11:40:57 am
I wish I had been aborted.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 26, 2018, 12:00:46 pm
Abortions aren't just going to stop because you make it illegal it will just make it more dangerous for the women who seek them. The US is an example of this.

This.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 26, 2018, 01:08:45 pm
Abortions aren't just going to stop because you make it illegal it will just make it more dangerous for the women who seek them. The US is an example of this.
And Argentina
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 02:30:18 pm
Abortions aren't just going to stop because you make it illegal it will just make it more dangerous for the women who seek them. The US is an example of this.

Same goes for murder, rape, armed robbery...society has to make a moral choice about what it wants to oppose via the law.

England and Wales have c.200,000 abortion procedures per year, over a third of which are carried out on women who have already had it done at least once before. Roughly a quarter of all UK pregnancies end in abortion. This is not a good thing, and quite apart from anything else these are human lives.

Fetal abnormalities/risk to the mother/etc account for a tiny percentage of cases. Abortion is largely there for selfish people, particularly would-be fathers, who don't want to take responsibility for their actions.   

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 02:46:39 pm
We have to remember though, that, up until a certain point, a foetus is not aware and is simply a clump of cells incapable of survival outside the uterus. The amendment in the Irish constitution made it illegal in all of the cases that I mentioned to abort a pregnancy, which is hardly fair considering the circumstances and the legal line should not be so black and white even in the most conservative countries. The debate about simple unplanned pregnancies being aborted is a long and detailed one considering the age at which a foetus becomes a baby is often up to debate by different groups. The point that I'm trying to make is that, regardless of your stance on normal abortions, these extreme circumstances should, at the very least, be granted exemptions from the abortion ban, which, under current Irish law, they are not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 03:39:12 pm
Much the same as people in a vegetative state hooked up to life-support then?

To an extent I agree with your other point. Seems to me when a mother's life is at risk, even though that's incredibly rare, abortion should be possible. I'm not a fan of aborting a disabled baby however (that's eugenics) and I think you have to have strict punishments for medical professionals who cheat the system. I think the UK's pre-1967 abortion laws (yes, it was legal before 1967) are preferable to what we have now.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 03:42:46 pm
Much the same as people in a vegetative state hooked up to life-support then?

To an extent I agree with your other point. Seems to me when a mother's life is at risk, even though that's incredibly rare, abortion should be possible. I'm not a fan of aborting a disabled baby however (that's eugenics) and I think you have to have strict punishments for medical professionals who cheat the system. I think the UK's pre-1967 abortion laws (yes, it was legal before 1967) are preferable to what we have now.
The life support case is a bad comparison considering people on life-support are taken off it often. As has already been mentioned, if regular abortion was made illegal, it would still occur but in more dangerous ways. By having it the way it is now, at least women aren't putting themselves at risk with life threatening procedures with shady doctors.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 04:06:18 pm
Much the same as people in a vegetative state hooked up to life-support then?

To an extent I agree with your other point. Seems to me when a mother's life is at risk, even though that's incredibly rare, abortion should be possible. I'm not a fan of aborting a disabled baby however (that's eugenics) and I think you have to have strict punishments for medical professionals who cheat the system. I think the UK's pre-1967 abortion laws (yes, it was legal before 1967) are preferable to what we have now.
The life support case is a bad comparison considering people on life-support are taken off it often. As has already been mentioned, if regular abortion was made illegal, it would still occur but in more dangerous ways. By having it the way it is now, at least women aren't putting themselves at risk with life threatening procedures with shady doctors.

Alright, let me ask you this: how many British women, on average, do you think died per year from 'illegal' abortions pre-1967?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 04:09:30 pm
I don’t know the exact number but I trust the women campaigners who lived and the time and went through it themselves. It did happen.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 04:10:28 pm
Just guess, I'm interested to know how many you think died
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 04:14:33 pm
Well certain British studies have put current unsafe abortion numbers and about 70,000 per year although that may be worldwide. Either way the risks are amplified.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 04:19:20 pm
70,000 a year?

In the UK pre-1967 it was 30 deaths a year from illegal abortions. At the same time, on average, 20 women were dying annually from *legal* abortion procedures gone wrong.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 04:25:24 pm
70,000 a year?

In the UK pre-1967 it was 30 deaths a year from illegal abortions. At the same time, on average, 20 women were dying annually from *legal* abortion procedures gone wrong.
But you’re not including other complications besides death. The world health organisation supports the legalisation of abortion and says that around 4-13% of maternal deaths can be attributed to unsafe abortions. They also say that most of these can be prevented with legal and safe abortion methods.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 04:29:54 pm
*maternal complications not deaths
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 04:43:22 pm
The WHO can say what it likes, and '4-13%' is so broad that it's statistically suspicious anyway. WHO should not be taken as an absolute authority, it's gone too far down the road of being a campaigning organisation in recent decades. It does good work but in many areas of its operations it has been captured by interest groups of which the pro-choice lobby are one. I stopped entirely trusting WHO after they disgraced themselves over second-hand smoking (which is not actually bad for you).

It's a fact that in the UK, pre-1967 when abortion was hugely liberalised, very few women were dying as a result of illegal abortion procedures. In fact death rates were almost the same as those dying from legal procedures! The data on other complications isn't available but it's a fair assumption that they were as low as the death rates.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 04:47:40 pm
All I got from that post was

-Ignore the statistics
-let’s assume
-you actually think second hand smoke isn’t bad for you
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 05:12:49 pm
Second-hand smoke probably isn't bad for you, no. The two most extensive studies ever undertaken on passive smoking both show this:
a) a 40 year study of c100,000 Californians
https://www.bmj.com/content/326/7398/1057

b) a 10-year study of c75,000 women
https://academic.oup.com/jnci/article/105/24/1844/2517805

The WHO itself also commissioned a study, which similarly found that the effects of passive smoking were statistically insignificant. I'd link the report but they buried it due to political pressure which caused a media storm at the time:
https://www.economist.com/node/371618

(Honestly just read the above piece from The Economist to get what I'm talking about)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 05:17:58 pm
So WHO, Cancer Research UK and the NHS are all wrong? There are just as many studies, if not more, that would contradict what you are saying. Don't be a goon Steven.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 05:44:21 pm
Of course, but none of them have time-frames or data sets as extensive as those two. The Enstrom and Kabat study was one of the most expensive in medical history (100,000 people over 40 years is massive). I could have cited plenty more (even though such research is less likely to be published due to political and funding pressures), but do you think it's coincidental that the biggest studies undertaken support my position? WHO was also caught undermining its own research for political purposes. Take that as you will...

At best the link between passive smoking and negative health outcomes is unproven. I don't even have a dog in the fight given I don't smoke and despise the habit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 26, 2018, 05:49:35 pm
70,000 a year?

In the UK pre-1967 it was 30 deaths a year from illegal abortions. At the same time, on average, 20 women were dying annually from *legal* abortion procedures gone wrong.

They kept accurate numbers on illegal abortions?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 05:50:10 pm
So if you had a child you would be absolutely fine with somebody smoking around them?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 06:22:30 pm
70,000 a year?

In the UK pre-1967 it was 30 deaths a year from illegal abortions. At the same time, on average, 20 women were dying annually from *legal* abortion procedures gone wrong.

They kept accurate numbers on illegal abortions?

No, numbers are deaths from illegal abortions (not numbers of illegal abortion procedures).


So if you had a child you would be absolutely fine with somebody smoking around them?

Unless they were asthmatic I'd be fine with it on rare occasions, but no more than that because I don't want to encourage them to pick up the habit by normalising it. I personally don't mind sitting in a pub with people smoking however.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 06:47:26 pm
Don’t ever become a father.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: TheBoberton on May 26, 2018, 06:56:59 pm
I don't know that anyone who continues to frequent this forum will ever have the opportunity to do so.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 07:17:44 pm
Don’t ever become a father.

Too late, I have twins and my wife is a trainee doctor.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on May 26, 2018, 07:19:01 pm
You dont immedeately tackle everyone with a cigarette around your kids? Dont EVER reproduce!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 07:27:55 pm
Don’t ever become a father.

Too late, I have twins and my wife is a trainee doctor.
And I'm sure your wife is learning about how the second hand smoke contains chemicals. Would you want them inhaling those chemicals? If so then you're quite clearly failing to protect them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 07:43:12 pm
Let's get some perspective. If you live in an urban area, especially a major city like London/New York/Paris/etc, then second hand tobacco smoke is the least of your concerns regarding what your children are inhaling. Most towns and cities around the globe, including in the West, have pollution levels far above international standards that are considered safe. Me and my wife are well aware of this. It's safer for my children to be around smokers 24/7 and live in the countryside than it is for them to live in a city with non-smoking parents.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 07:53:17 pm
Let's get some perspective. If you live in an urban area, especially a major city like London/New York/Paris/etc, then second hand tobacco smoke is the least of your concerns regarding what your children are inhaling. Most towns and cities around the globe, including in the West, have pollution levels far above international standards that are considered safe. Me and my wife are well aware of this. It's safer for my children to be around smokers 24/7 and live in the countryside than it is for them to live in a city with non-smoking parents.
Yes and it would be even safer if you kept them away from smokers as well.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2018, 08:01:28 pm
Let's get some perspective. If you live in an urban area, especially a major city like London/New York/Paris/etc, then second hand tobacco smoke is the least of your concerns regarding what your children are inhaling. Most towns and cities around the globe, including in the West, have pollution levels far above international standards that are considered safe. Me and my wife are well aware of this. It's safer for my children to be around smokers 24/7 and live in the countryside than it is for them to live in a city with non-smoking parents.
Yes and it would be even safer if you kept them away from smokers as well.

They are kept away 99% of the time, but it is irrational to be especially concerned about it given other environmental dangers.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 08:06:22 pm
Let's get some perspective. If you live in an urban area, especially a major city like London/New York/Paris/etc, then second hand tobacco smoke is the least of your concerns regarding what your children are inhaling. Most towns and cities around the globe, including in the West, have pollution levels far above international standards that are considered safe. Me and my wife are well aware of this. It's safer for my children to be around smokers 24/7 and live in the countryside than it is for them to live in a city with non-smoking parents.
Yes and it would be even safer if you kept them away from smokers as well.

They are kept away 99% of the time, but it is irrational to be especially concerned about it given other environmental dangers.
It’s not irrational at all. I’m more likely to die in a car crash than a shark attack but it doesn’t mean I’m gonna go and sucker punch a great white.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 26, 2018, 08:33:54 pm
Oh well, it's not all bad news. At least there'll most likely be less Irish people now :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: ~Posh~ on May 26, 2018, 09:38:53 pm
It’s not irrational at all. I’m more likely to die in a car crash than a shark attack but it doesn’t mean I’m gonna go and sucker punch a great white.

at least you could try
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on May 26, 2018, 10:22:19 pm
when some sperg posting on a forum for a terrible, dead game tells you not to further your genealogical line because you wouldn't mollycoddle your child every waking moment of their existence
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FortunateTinyAardwolf-max-1mb.gif)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 10:35:24 pm
when some sperg posting on a forum for a terrible, dead game tells you not to further your genealogical line because you wouldn't mollycoddle your child every waking moment of their existence
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FortunateTinyAardwolf-max-1mb.gif)
[close]
When you use an incredibly outdated meme to defend smoking around children. I'm sure you wouldn't want your kiddo being in a car filled with cigarette smoke would you? Ya know, since it causes cancer.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 26, 2018, 11:03:41 pm
Just let your kids inhale exaust gases from car if you live in a city. Good air,also removes particles.

Second hand smoking is bad, some say its worse than active. #remofCigarettes

Thinking abortion is a murder is a bit weird considering your body kills millions of similar life forms everyday.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 26, 2018, 11:26:53 pm
That's why I cry everytime I jerk off.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on May 26, 2018, 11:42:40 pm
when some sperg posting on a forum for a terrible, dead game tells you not to further your genealogical line because you wouldn't mollycoddle your child every waking moment of their existence
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FortunateTinyAardwolf-max-1mb.gif)
[close]
When you use an incredibly outdated meme to defend smoking around children. I'm sure you wouldn't want your kiddo being in a car filled with cigarette smoke would you? Ya know, since it causes cancer.

Yes, it's not good. Your response telling him he would make a terrible father was to him saying he wouldn't freak out of it occurred on rare occasions. For instance, I wouldn't allow smoking in my house (we'll ignore that it ruins the value of your home) because of the heavy health impacts - but that doesn't mean I wouldn't allow my children to visit their extended kin on Christmas who do smoke. The reason your comment was so silly is because it was a drastic extreme to an exceptionally reserved behavior.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 26, 2018, 11:50:15 pm
Well I’m sorry to break it to you, but allowing your kids to be in the same room as somebody smoking increases their risk of cancer.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on May 27, 2018, 12:02:43 am
What an emphatic revelation.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 27, 2018, 12:23:04 am
What an emphatic revelation.
Well if it’s so clear to you then why are you getting involved? If he’s okay with people smoking around his kids then it obviously isn’t good for them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 27, 2018, 12:54:32 am
Well I’m sorry to break it to you, but allowing your kids to be in the same room as somebody smoking increases their risk of cancer.

As I've pointed out to you, using scientific evidence, it probably doesn't. Even studies that suggest it does increase the risk mostly state that a) it's only in the case of long-term exposure, and b) it's in their view a slight risk factor anyway that's far outweighed by urban pollution

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 27, 2018, 01:01:30 am
Well I’m sorry to break it to you, but allowing your kids to be in the same room as somebody smoking increases their risk of cancer.

As I've pointed out to you, using scientific evidence, it probably doesn't. Even studies that suggest it does increase the risk mostly state that a) it's only in the case of long-term exposure, and b) it's in their view a slight risk factor anyway that's far outweighed by urban pollution
And as I said to you, there are many studies and prominent institutions that disagree with you. Also, of course it’s not short term. You don’t just get cancer with a click of the fingers. Same with actual smokers. But that doesn’t make it healthy, does it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on May 27, 2018, 01:03:24 am
Well I’m sorry to break it to you, but allowing your kids to be in the same room as somebody smoking increases their risk of cancer.
Do you have even the slightest Idea how many fucking things cause Cancer?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 27, 2018, 02:06:42 am
I do but that doesn’t mean I actively seek them out
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 27, 2018, 03:53:10 am
You need to drop it down a notch.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on May 27, 2018, 04:14:13 am
I don't smoke next to my kids, I let them smoke next to me
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 27, 2018, 05:32:13 am
I actually smoked my kids.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 27, 2018, 09:44:20 am
You need to drop it down a notch.
What are you talking about?

Fse might be one of the few places where saying second hand smoke causes cancer is a controversial opinion...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 27, 2018, 03:53:07 pm
I actually smoked my kids.
You just admited to incest paedophilia. Nice.

Well I’m sorry to break it to you, but allowing your kids to be in the same room as somebody smoking increases their risk of cancer.
Do you have even the slightest Idea how many fucking things cause Cancer?
Speaking german does there is a study that was made since 1250 untill now.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 27, 2018, 03:58:42 pm
You need to drop it down a notch.
What are you talking about?

Fse might be one of the few places where saying second hand smoke causes cancer is a controversial opinion...

That's because in the field of medicine it is a controversial opinion.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 27, 2018, 04:34:42 pm
You need to drop it down a notch.
What are you talking about?

Fse might be one of the few places where saying second hand smoke causes cancer is a controversial opinion...
That's because in the field of medicine it is a controversial opinion.
Lmao no it’s not. It’s a view supported by the NHS, WHO and CRUK but apparently they’re all wrong and you’re right.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 27, 2018, 05:12:27 pm
Appealing to authority is a debating fallacy (particularly when said authority has been caught lying on this very issue).

The medical evidence suggests passive smoking is probably not bad for you. Smoking bans in public and commercial areas have been in place in most Western countries for over a decade; if passive smoking were as bad as claimed then you'd expect significant reductions in heart attacks, lung cancers and so on among the general population over the last ten years. And yet that's not what has happened. Most studies have not identified statistically significant reductions in any of those diseases and I can cite them if you so wish.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on May 27, 2018, 05:26:56 pm
Actually you probably wouldn’t expect people’s cancer rates to go down since most people still live in heavily polluted cities. I’m not appealing to authority but simply well respected institutions who have had the same stance for a long time. If it wasn’t unhealthy then why wouldn’t they say so?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 27, 2018, 05:31:48 pm
Appealing to authority is a debating fallacy (particularly when said authority has been caught lying on this very issue).

The medical evidence suggests passive smoking is probably not bad for you. Smoking bans in public and commercial areas have been in place in most Western countries for over a decade; if passive smoking were as bad as claimed then you'd expect significant reductions in heart attacks, lung cancers and so on among the general population over the last ten years. And yet that's not what has happened. Most studies have not identified statistically significant reductions in any of those diseases and I can cite them if you so wish.
. It is really impossible to claim that, when you have so many factors that might be increasing heart attacks (more fat people), lung cancers (more air pollution) over the last ten years.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on May 27, 2018, 06:31:03 pm
Let's get some perspective. If you live in an urban area, especially a major city like London/New York/Paris/etc, then second hand tobacco smoke is the least of your concerns regarding what your children are inhaling. Most towns and cities around the globe, including in the West, have pollution levels far above international standards that are considered safe. Me and my wife are well aware of this. It's safer for my children to be around smokers 24/7 and live in the countryside than it is for them to live in a city with non-smoking parents.
Citation please
at least in North America, air pollution in cities are way below international and national standards (some exceptions, but usually in remote regions, for a variety of reasons), per the EPA and Environment Canada.
Moreover, those pollutants are *usually* the fault of dust from unpaved roads, heat-induced ozone concentration, or forest fire smoke.
Air quality, at least in in North America (but probably in the rest of the Western world, with exceptions) has been steadily improving for the past 20 years
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 27, 2018, 08:40:13 pm
They know how to account for other factors, e.g. comparing multiple US communities with similar population profiles where the major differential is one has implemented a public smoking ban and the other hasn't. These people are not amateurs.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/pam.20548

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21877107

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343%2813%2900837-1/fulltext

Citation please
at least in North America, air pollution in cities are way below international and national standards (some exceptions, but usually in remote regions, for a variety of reasons), per the EPA and Environment Canada.
Moreover, those pollutants are *usually* the fault of dust from unpaved roads, heat-induced ozone concentration, or forest fire smoke.
Air quality, at least in in North America (but probably in the rest of the Western world, with exceptions) has been steadily improving for the past 20 years

Air quality in the West is generally better than elsewhere and has been improving, but most Western cities are still over international standards (though Canada is an exception, air quality there is extremely good if you take the recent forest fires as a blip). Looks like Europe is generally worse than the USA:
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/datablog/2017/feb/13/most-polluted-cities-world-listed-region
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: ZeroNight on May 27, 2018, 08:53:47 pm
That's why I cry everytime I jerk off.

 ;D ;D :o
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 27, 2018, 09:36:20 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44272326

Based Northern Ireland
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 27, 2018, 10:34:49 pm
More of this please (and less of this: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/18/theresa-may-plans-to-let-people-change-gender-without-medical-checks)

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6c/cf/19/6ccf1923718ccaa363fae6b0ea8208fd.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 27, 2018, 10:46:37 pm
More of this please (and less of this: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/18/theresa-may-plans-to-let-people-change-gender-without-medical-checks)

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6c/cf/19/6ccf1923718ccaa363fae6b0ea8208fd.jpg)
Can't wait to visit gynecologist, to check my vagina, because my clitoris is really huge it is like a cellular organ and my lips are like two giant balls.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 27, 2018, 11:11:59 pm
More of this please (and less of this: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/18/theresa-may-plans-to-let-people-change-gender-without-medical-checks)

What on Earth do you mean, Steven! These are the issues that should be atop the agenda of any conservative government!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on May 29, 2018, 10:19:28 pm
Has the EU ever been closer to death? Lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 29, 2018, 11:52:06 pm
Has the EU ever been closer to death? Lol

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c9/Black_Knight_Holy_Grail.png)

It has a while to go yet, but in current form it's not going to last...wouldn't be the first time the Italians brought down a German empire either (Otto III, Frederick II).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 30, 2018, 01:16:46 am
In what universe do you people live?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on May 30, 2018, 02:14:24 am
In what universe do you people live?
-Carl Sagan, probably
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 30, 2018, 07:52:49 pm
In what universe do you people live?

The universe where one of the EU 'big four' are leaving, another is on a collision course with Brussels, and the other two have weak and unpopular leaders. Eastern Europe is in revolt, the White House is no longer a friend to Brussels but in fact an opponent (there's even a good chance of a trade war), while terrorism and economic instability still wreck the Continent. Euroscepticism has never been a more powerful force.

What universe are you living in Duuring?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 30, 2018, 10:20:02 pm

What universe are you living in Duuring?
Safe Space.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/trump-told-wealthy-doors-about-classified-syria-battle.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on May 31, 2018, 08:59:40 am
In what universe do you people live?

The universe where one of the EU 'big four' are leaving, another is on a collision course with Brussels, and the other two have weak and unpopular leaders. Eastern Europe is in revolt, the White House is no longer a friend to Brussels but in fact an opponent (there's even a good chance of a trade war), while terrorism and economic instability still wreck the Continent. Euroscepticism has never been a more powerful force.

What universe are you living in Duuring?

If the EU ever falls apart it would be terrible for everyone involved, not sure why you're so happy about it.
Europe would more than likely not be able to keep it's economic dominance, we'd be more divided again nationalism have already been rising and we know where that's been leading in the past.

The EU have issues no doubt about it but we're way better of with it than without it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 31, 2018, 10:23:00 am
I wonder what it must be like, becoming excited at every event and political crisis and being sure that this time, it surely will signal the end of the EU. Wasn't the French election supposed to that? Or the German? Or the Dutch? Or the Austrian? Or the Italian? Because there isn't a crisis because Italy wants to leave the EU, or even wants to leave the Euro, but because one party wants a minister that considers leaving the Eurozone an option.

'Eastern Europe is in revolt'. I literally had the Polish deputy Ambassador to the Netherlands tell me a week ago Poland loves her European identity, will never leave the EU and just wants more power to the memberstates. Also the EU shouldn't do more, but should do more in Defence and border control (without doing more, got it?).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 31, 2018, 03:02:57 pm
My position has always been that the EU will die slowly, and by a thousand cuts. It's a process not an event. From migration to the Iran deal Poland ain't exactly showing much EU solidarity is it? 'Just wants more power to the member states'? You say that in such a sanguine way given the words 'ever closer union' are deeply embedded in the EU treaties. If Eastern Europe is not in fact in revolt then please explain to me why the Commission is trying to punishing them by proposing cuts of c25% in their EU funds?
https://euobserver.com/economic/141933

I'd prefer a world without the EU. It's a crap plan from the 1920s that was opportunistically implemented post-1945, and mainly built around the idea that democracy needed to be constrained by an element of technocracy. European economic integration can easily be replaced by UNECE (which is already happening anyway, part of my job is guessing which UNECE standards will be converted into EU regulation) while those countries that want to integrate politically with Berlin can still be free to do so.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on May 31, 2018, 03:34:53 pm
So when is the EU dead?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 31, 2018, 03:45:26 pm
Depends on what you think 'death' looks like.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Olafson on May 31, 2018, 08:14:04 pm
I sure hate using the same currency everywhere, being able to travel around freely, cheap flights, being able to expect the same laws and food standards anywhere in Europe. It really sucks.
I wish it would take me 4hours just to cross the Dutch border, like when I was young. Man, it was so much fun going to France, being checked at every border, taking hours just to spend a day at the sea in Holland, then having to convert my money with a crappy exchange rate, just to buy some icecream. SO MUCH FUN.
I also really hate going to countries like Malta and seeing all those EU projects popping up. All those restored Forts and Castles are just so ugly... It is also retarded that I can easily use my credit card anywhere in Europe. Or that I do not have to pay VAT when buying stuff from other European countries with my company account. It just sucks. Not being taxated twice also fucking sucks, like seriously. I would love to pay income tax twice and pay additional VAT on it. I hate doing buisness in other countries, it is just to easy.

Personally, I would be so much better off without the EU, I do not profit from the EU at all!

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 31, 2018, 08:38:48 pm
I love it when EU sends you directive to lower production of sugar but you only have one factory which means your production is inefficient and company goes bankrupt and people lose jobs. Also love it when I have factory that produces plastic and then cheap Romanian plastic comes to our market and I go bankrupt because I don't sell anything. So all the simple industry moves to Romania and that industry just happens to be the most polluting so all the pollution moves to poorer countries. I sure love accepting immigrants to give them low paid jobs even though there is enough unemployed people in my country, then also most of people are biggots and don't want to interact with someone that looks different than they do so you have ghettos now and good hiphop production is assured.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on May 31, 2018, 10:14:55 pm
Any particular reason as to why Denmark is banning burqas and niqabs?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 31, 2018, 10:34:42 pm
Any particular reason as to why Denmark is banning burqas and niqabs?
Women's rights?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on May 31, 2018, 10:37:12 pm
Spoiler
I sure hate using the same currency everywhere, being able to travel around freely, cheap flights, being able to expect the same laws and food standards anywhere in Europe. It really sucks.
I wish it would take me 4hours just to cross the Dutch border, like when I was young. Man, it was so much fun going to France, being checked at every border, taking hours just to spend a day at the sea in Holland, then having to convert my money with a crappy exchange rate, just to buy some icecream. SO MUCH FUN.
I also really hate going to countries like Malta and seeing all those EU projects popping up. All those restored Forts and Castles are just so ugly... It is also retarded that I can easily use my credit card anywhere in Europe. Or that I do not have to pay VAT when buying stuff from other European countries with my company account. It just sucks. Not being taxated twice also fucking sucks, like seriously. I would love to pay income tax twice and pay additional VAT on it. I hate doing buisness in other countries, it is just to easy.

Personally, I would be so much better off without the EU, I do not profit from the EU at all!
[close]

-Your convenience for using the same currency is paid for by economic misery in Southern Europe. Would you be willing to see your taxes go to Greek or Italian coffers via fiscal transfers in return for that convenience? I hope so.
-'the same laws and food standards anywhere in Europe'-Well, up to a point. Those standards have quite a lot to do with Codex Alimentarius and UNECE. A lot of EU food safety regulation is actually just implementing what has already been agreed at UN level.
-I travelled regularly between New York and Ontario when I was in Canada. Clearing border controls usually took 60 seconds or less. There are still internal checks on EU cross-border traffic by the way, French douane/Irish customs/etc still stop travellers they just do it away from the legal border.
-You can use your credit or debit cards just about anywhere in the Western world. Never had a problem in Canada.
-'I do not have to pay VAT when buying stuff from other European countries with my company account'-I'm not an accountant but I'm fairly sure you do need to pay VAT on that...

You have a fair point re: EU funding but it's hardly Marshall Aid. Even for the biggest recipient, Poland, EU spending only accounts for 2.6% of Gross National Income.

The problem with all those benefits you listed is that it's perfectly possible to have them without the need for a technocratic supranational union that wants its own army. Much of this is already happening as a result of globalisation (particularly flights, credit cards, telecommunications etc), and it's on an intergovernmental basis. Of course the EU has gone furthest and fastest than anywhere else. The only other place that you can compare it to is New Zealand and Australia (which also have free movement, residency and employment rights; mutual recognition of regulation and standards for goods, services, professional qualifications etc; harmonisation of social policy regarding pensions, welfare payments; military and intelligence co-operation and integration; etc). You can do all this stuff without 28 unelected Commissioners led by a drunkard, a useless parliament, a silly flag and anthem, grandiose plans for an army, and so on. The question you need to ask yourself is why EU citizens have so little democratic control over EU integration vs your average Australian/New Zealand citizen has over the trans-Tasman equivalent
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on May 31, 2018, 10:44:48 pm
The problem with all those benefits you listed is that it's perfectly possible to have them without the need for a technocratic supranational union that wants its own army. Much of this is already happening as a result of globalisation (particularly flights, credit cards, telecommunications etc), and it's on an intergovernmental basis. Of course the EU has gone furthest and fastest than anywhere else. The only other place that you can compare it to is New Zealand and Australia (which also have free movement, residency and employment rights; mutual recognition of regulation and standards for goods, services, professional qualifications etc; harmonisation of social policy regarding pensions, welfare payments; military and intelligence co-operation and integration; etc). You can do all this stuff without 28 unelected Commissioners led by a drunkard, a useless parliament, a silly flag and anthem, grandiose plans for an army, and so on. The question you need to ask yourself is why EU citizens have so little democratic control over EU integration vs your average Australian/New Zealand citizen has over the trans-Tasman equivalent.
Technocracy and deep state are the only reason democratic countries still function.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Nero_ on May 31, 2018, 11:59:33 pm
i support tommy robinson
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 02, 2018, 01:37:13 am
i support tommy robinson

The Pakistani vote is too important, sorry.

Pretty good compilation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgqGDsL_Drw
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Lone on June 02, 2018, 09:59:45 pm
JENS SPAHN FOR PRESIDENT
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on June 04, 2018, 05:42:30 am
Wot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgqGDsL_Drw)

Is this stuff true? I was browsing youtube and happened upon this. I haven't really kept up with politics or the UK these past few months but...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 04, 2018, 06:13:53 am
It is.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 04, 2018, 04:22:43 pm
This is a big reason as to why the West is so f*cked. Trying to mess with human nature doesn't tend to end well, and the nuclear family is the default unit across cultures. If it weren't the ideal family structure then that wouldn't be the case.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5801847/Fury-family-court-judge-said-applaud-end-nuclear-family.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Jakester on June 04, 2018, 06:03:52 pm
This is a big reason as to why the West is so f*cked. Trying to mess with human nature doesn't tend to end well, and the nuclear family is the default unit across cultures. If it weren't the ideal family structure then that wouldn't be the case.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5801847/Fury-family-court-judge-said-applaud-end-nuclear-family.html
I think that's absolutely absurd to welcome the end of the nuclear family.

I can understand same sex marriage and all that, but outright encouraging traditional families to crash is a mistake. Traditional family values should be at the core of most people, so that they are then able to go out and make their own decisions. At least same sex parents raising a child are still raising them in a family - it's outright ridiculous to trash families.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 04, 2018, 06:43:33 pm
Pretty much.

I was very pro-gay marriage, it's a valuable institution, but I'm not so keen on gay adoption. It's highly desirable for children to have both a male and female role model.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 04, 2018, 07:04:05 pm
I was raised by a single mother and I’ve turned out fine
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 04, 2018, 07:42:17 pm
I was raised by a single mother and I’ve turned out fine

Congratulations, but I don't accept anecdotal evidence.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on June 04, 2018, 07:47:03 pm
Pretty much.

I was very pro-gay marriage, it's a valuable institution, but I'm not so keen on gay adoption. It's highly desirable for children to have both a male and female role model.
But gay parents are better then no parents.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 04, 2018, 07:50:00 pm
I was raised by a single mother and I’ve turned out fine

Congratulations, but I don't accept anecdotal evidence.
And where is your evidence?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 04, 2018, 08:11:34 pm
I was raised by a single mother and I’ve turned out fine

Congratulations, but I don't accept anecdotal evidence.
And where is your evidence?

The entire course of human evolution. Yours?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 04, 2018, 08:13:31 pm
I was raised by a single mother and I’ve turned out fine

Congratulations, but I don't accept anecdotal evidence.
And where is your evidence?

The entire course of human evolution. Yours?
That’s hardly evidence, is it? Give me some numbers and proof please instead of making generalised statements.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 04, 2018, 08:32:06 pm
I was raised by a single mother and I’ve turned out fine

Congratulations, but I don't accept anecdotal evidence.
And where is your evidence?

The entire course of human evolution. Yours?
That’s hardly evidence, is it? Give me some numbers and proof please instead of making generalised statements.

How about you offer proof that the alternatives to the nuclear family are superior? I'm arguing for the status quo so the onus is on you to justify the change.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 04, 2018, 08:38:12 pm
I was raised by a single mother and I’ve turned out fine

Congratulations, but I don't accept anecdotal evidence.
And where is your evidence?

The entire course of human evolution. Yours?
That’s hardly evidence, is it? Give me some numbers and proof please instead of making generalised statements.

How about you offer proof that the alternatives to the nuclear family are superior? I'm arguing for the status quo so the onus is on you to justify the change.
I didn't say it's superior, I'm just saying that it's possible for a child to be raised outside of the traditional family and still have a good life. My life is proof of that fact.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 04, 2018, 09:29:28 pm
So you accept that the nuclear family is preferable and we shouldn't celebrate its decline?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 04, 2018, 09:35:38 pm
So you accept that the nuclear family is preferable and we shouldn't celebrate its decline?
I don’t believe either one is preferable and I don’t celebrate the downfall of the nuclear family.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 04, 2018, 09:50:27 pm
Ah, the decline of the father figure in addition to the decline of religious belief and the rule of law. Where have I heard this mentioned before?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgjEVTr9r5U

 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on June 04, 2018, 11:44:51 pm
Pretty much.

I was very pro-gay marriage, it's a valuable institution, but I'm not so keen on gay adoption. It's highly desirable for children to have both a male and female role model.
But gay parents are better then no parents.
That’s the best argument for gay adoption, tbh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on June 04, 2018, 11:47:19 pm
Pretty much.

I was very pro-gay marriage, it's a valuable institution, but I'm not so keen on gay adoption. It's highly desirable for children to have both a male and female role model.
But gay parents are better then no parents.
That’s the best argument for gay adoption, tbh
Tbf orphans should just be adopted by the military at age 7 and go through experimental procedures to augment their physical abilities. After this they get their own exosuits and become the most lethal killing machines on the planet.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on June 05, 2018, 02:45:32 am
Pretty much.

I was very pro-gay marriage, it's a valuable institution, but I'm not so keen on gay adoption. It's highly desirable for children to have both a male and female role model.
But gay parents are better then no parents.
That’s the best argument for gay adoption, tbh
Tbf orphans should just be adopted by the military at age 7 and go through experimental procedures to augment their physical abilities. After this they get their own exosuits and become the most lethal killing machines on the planet.

wish i was an orphan
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on June 05, 2018, 11:24:21 am
Pretty much.

I was very pro-gay marriage, it's a valuable institution, but I'm not so keen on gay adoption. It's highly desirable for children to have both a male and female role model.
But gay parents are better then no parents.
That’s the best argument for gay adoption, tbh
Tbf orphans should just be adopted by the military at age 7 and go through experimental procedures to augment their physical abilities. After this they get their own exosuits and become the most lethal killing machines on the planet.

were it so easy
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on June 05, 2018, 07:23:50 pm
Pretty much.

I was very pro-gay marriage, it's a valuable institution, but I'm not so keen on gay adoption. It's highly desirable for children to have both a male and female role model.
But gay parents are better then no parents.
That’s the best argument for gay adoption, tbh
Tbf orphans should just be adopted by the military at age 7 and go through experimental procedures to augment their physical abilities. After this they get their own exosuits and become the most lethal killing machines on the planet.

wish i was an orphan

you are after I left the house
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 05, 2018, 11:00:36 pm
Hmmm yes, thought provoking discussion 🤔🤔🤔
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 07, 2018, 12:21:30 am
P A R T     &     P A R C E L

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44381757

It's sad as well as funny that articles such as this now exist. Maybe Mr Khan needs to get his priorities in order!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on June 07, 2018, 08:33:17 am
That is a dramatic increase... seems weird suddenly hundreds of people get the idea to start this...? what caused it? Did they get registered more?

And so far it seems more like a police problem than a political one.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 07, 2018, 09:45:40 am
That is a dramatic increase... seems weird suddenly hundreds of people get the idea to start this...? what caused it? Did they get registered more?

And so far it seems more like a police problem than a political one.

Nothing to do with policing or politics, but rather simple economics. Phones are getting increasingly expensive so more people are stealing them.

Spoiler
(https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/0*xyvIRl7CTNBnk3PW.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 07, 2018, 09:47:31 am
Well I doubt it helps that Britain has thousands fewer police officers
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 07, 2018, 02:47:48 pm
Well I doubt it helps that Britain has thousands fewer police officers

If they have time to monitor Twitter, paint their cars pink and turn up to pride etc then they're clearly not understaffed.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 07, 2018, 02:56:16 pm
Well I doubt it helps that Britain has thousands fewer police officers

If they have time to monitor Twitter, paint their cars pink and turn up to pride etc then they're clearly not understaffed.
You mean if they have time to do things that part of their duties? Other than the car painting thing those are standard police roles. It’s no coincidence that crime has gone up since police numbers have been cut. Even many of the higher ups in the police service have said that cuts are putting people at risk.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 07, 2018, 04:10:32 pm
Well I doubt it helps that Britain has thousands fewer police officers

If they have time to monitor Twitter, paint their cars pink and turn up to pride etc then they're clearly not understaffed.
You mean if they have time to do things that part of their duties? Other than the car painting thing those are standard police roles. It’s no coincidence that crime has gone up since police numbers have been cut. Even many of the higher ups in the police service have said that cuts are putting people at risk.

Since when was it part of the job description to take part in pride marches? Monitoring twitter is probably the last thing they should be worrying about, if at all. I have no sympathy with complaints of lack of manpower. Per head of population police numbers are *significantly higher* than they were between 1945-90s in England and Wales. I also doubt whether manpower is to blame given it's mainly violent crime that has gone up and this has happened in England and Wales where police numbers have fallen, as well as in Scotland where they've actually risen.

If there were a genuine crisis in funding and manpower then operations can easily be prioritised (no more chasing bored teenagers on Twitter) and diversity budgets can be cut (yes, they have those).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 07, 2018, 04:16:43 pm
To provide protection and security at demonstrations is a pretty common thing. There are 20,000 fewer police officers in the UK than in 2010. Knife crime rose 20% in England and Wales this year.

You make it sound so easy to abandon parts of their role but I’m pretty sure if it was as simple as that then they would have already done it. They monitor online because that’s also one of the areas to have seen a major increase of crime. Why can’t you admit that they’re underfunded?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on June 07, 2018, 04:42:54 pm
Getting prison time for something said on twitter is insane to me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 07, 2018, 04:55:46 pm
Getting prison time for something said on twitter is insane to me.
I suppose it depends on the context of what was said.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 07, 2018, 04:56:42 pm
To provide protection and security at demonstrations is a pretty common thing. There are 20,000 fewer police officers in the UK than in 2010. Knife crime rose 20% in England and Wales this year.

Policing an event is totally different from taking part in it. I've no problem with the former it's part of the job, but the latter is far too political and takes up frontline staff. As I've said, per head of population the police are at historically high levels and have the latest technology at their disposal.

You make it sound so easy to abandon parts of their role but I’m pretty sure if it was as simple as that then they would have already done it

Genuinely laughed at that. For years now various police forces have *unilaterally* decided not to enforce drug laws.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11755995/Police-are-turning-a-blind-eye-to-cannabis-across-the-country-experts-claim.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 07, 2018, 05:06:31 pm
Taking part in an event does not mean they can’t participate in it as part of community relations. It’s not that political seeing as being gay is perfectly acceptable in this country.

Also there is a difference between abandoning a role and simply managing it differently which is what your source is saying certain forces are doing. It even mentions cuts and how officers are taking a different approach because some ways haven’t worked. Cannabis use is, as I’m sure we all agree, a completely different beast from knife crime too.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 07, 2018, 05:17:39 pm
Pride events are overtly political and there is no law in the UK stopping people from being homophobic. Police need to be seen to be neutral and fair.

'Managing it differently'=not enforcing the law and turning a blind eye. They could manage Twitter differently by doing the same thing. Police cuts are just the latest excuse they wheeled out to justify turning a blind eye-this has been going on for decades it's nothing new. I'd question how completely different they are too given cannabis usage and the link to psychosis (and therefore violent crime). We've seen a lot of mentally ill killers on British streets who've been found to have been heavy cannabis users.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on June 07, 2018, 05:20:43 pm
Getting prison time for something said on twitter is insane to me.
I suppose it depends on the context of what was said.

Getting prosecuted and sent to prison is reasonable to you?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 07, 2018, 05:31:12 pm
Either way the police will be there. If individual officers or stations want to support something then that is their prerogative. Police cuts this severe haven’t been going on for decades. I also question the selective nature of your officers per capita statistic considering there are less officers now than in 2010. There may have been an overall rise since the 60s but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t gone down in the past decade.

Millions of people use Cannabis every year. Very few users suffer from psychosis that it’s a strenuous link at best to say that Cannabis outright causes it.

Also Furrnox, what I mean is that it depends on what the person has said. If they’re threatening to blow up Buckingham palace then that’s a more serious crime than saying fuck joey Essex or something. Perhaps some people who have gone to jail also have past records or are on probabtion for previous crimes. It’s all about context.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 07, 2018, 05:49:21 pm
Getting prison time for something said on twitter is insane to me.

If you want specific figures I'd recommended this article (given you can overlook it's from RT): https://www.rt.com/uk/406467-hate-crime-twitter-troll/

It's as worrying as it is common, sadly.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 07, 2018, 05:50:34 pm
Millions of people use Cannabis every year. Very few users suffer from psychosis that it’s a strenuous link at best to say that Cannabis outright causes it.

That's your opinion, but most medical bodies including our blessed NHS (may peace be upon it) disagree with you.
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/cannabis-the-facts/#cannabis-and-mental-health

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 07, 2018, 05:57:31 pm
Obviously there are safety concerns that are mostly associated with younger people using it. And smoking obviously causes lung issues. But Cannabis hasn’t actually directly killed anyone.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 07, 2018, 06:36:20 pm
Obviously there are safety concerns that are mostly associated with younger people using it. And smoking obviously causes lung issues. But Cannabis hasn’t actually directly killed anyone.

There fates worse than death, go visit a locked ward in a psychiatric hospital.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 07, 2018, 06:39:11 pm
Obviously there are safety concerns that are mostly associated with younger people using it. And smoking obviously causes lung issues. But Cannabis hasn’t actually directly killed anyone.

There fates worse than death, go visit a locked ward in a psychiatric hospital.
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. That isn’t the point of what we’re talking about. The police have had cuts and are saying they need more money. I doubt anybody knows more about the topic than them. Their numbers are down, crime is up and they’re struggling to cope.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 07, 2018, 07:02:10 pm
Obviously there are safety concerns that are mostly associated with younger people using it. And smoking obviously causes lung issues. But Cannabis hasn’t actually directly killed anyone.

There fates worse than death, go visit a locked ward in a psychiatric hospital.
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. That isn’t the point of what we’re talking about. The police have had cuts and are saying they need more money. I doubt anybody knows more about the topic than them. Their numbers are down, crime is up and they’re struggling to cope.

>'struggling to cope'
>Still got time to patrol Twitter
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 07, 2018, 07:10:56 pm
They don’t “patrol” twitter, they’re doing their job by monitoring social media for crimes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on June 07, 2018, 07:44:09 pm
Circus
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 07, 2018, 08:06:04 pm
Circus

Well, at least our government isn't assassinating people for speaking out against them yet. Thanks for reminding us it could always be worse.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on June 07, 2018, 08:40:56 pm
Democracy* can be just as flawed as an autocracy and often times is. It's why the world needs enlightened monarchs again with unlimited reform power
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Council on June 07, 2018, 09:57:15 pm
Circus

Well, at least our government isn't assassinating people for speaking out against them yet. Thanks for reminding us it could always be worse.
What government are you talking about?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 07, 2018, 10:56:08 pm
Did you even bother to read the last page? "Ours" = UK government, dummy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on June 07, 2018, 11:00:34 pm
Democracy* can be just as flawed as an autocracy and often times is. It's why the world needs enlightened monarchs again with unlimited reform power
I, for one, couldn’t trust Prince Charles with unlimited power
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 07, 2018, 11:15:22 pm
Turns out male uber-feminist Justin Trudeau groped a female reporter in 2000 and issued a f*cked up excuse/apology when confronted about it. Sad and funny at the same time given his recent #MeToo lecturing. Why is it so many of the men involved with the feminist movement turn out to be creeps?

Spoiler
(https://i.redd.it/6c1se3rhzh211.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 08, 2018, 07:39:40 am
Democracy* can be just as flawed as an autocracy and often times is. It's why the world needs enlightened monarchs again with unlimited reform power
Yes, with democracy you have a mob of people of which 90% don't know shit about parties they vote for (basically people are not good rulers over themselves). But it is not like you even have any options since all the parties are trash. Then you have politicians who are elected and 95% of them primary goal is to be elected again and not to do sth good for the state. They also can break all their promises and nothing will happen. These politicians are easily corrupt since they need money for their campaign or just personal greed so rich people can influence them. Not to mention all the interregnums you get.
With absolutist you get a person who is raised to be a good ruler, his motive is to make his country great again. And he and his administration doesn't get fucked every 4 years by new political agenda but can work very effectively. It has been clear democracy can't work alone since early stages so we have mix of democracy and technocracy anyways.
Socrates said it well: If you were heading on a journey by the sea, who would you ideally want to decide who was in charge of the vessel just anyone or people educated in rules and demands of seafaring? The later of course. So why do we keep thinking that any person would be fit to judge who should be the ruler of a country? Here his point isn't necessarily that democracy is bad but that most people are not qualified for it. And I personally don't believe ever will be, and there is no real way of deciding who is fit to vote and who isn't, so there goes democracy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 08, 2018, 07:40:34 am
Turns out male uber-feminist Justin Trudeau groped a female reporter in 2000 and issued a f*cked up excuse/apology when confronted about it. Sad and funny at the same time given his recent #MeToo lecturing. Why is it so many of the men involved with the feminist movement turn out to be creeps?

Spoiler
(https://i.redd.it/6c1se3rhzh211.jpg)
[close]
I guess he should be burned alive then.

Democracy* can be just as flawed as an autocracy and often times is. It's why the world needs enlightened monarchs again with unlimited reform power
I, for one, couldn’t trust Prince Charles with unlimited power
He wasn't raised to be a ruler.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on June 08, 2018, 08:52:59 am
Democracy* can be just as flawed as an autocracy and often times is. It's why the world needs enlightened monarchs again with unlimited reform power
Yes, with democracy you have a mob of people of which 90% don't know shit about parties they vote for (basically people are not good rulers over themselves). But it is not like you even have any options since all the parties are trash. Then you have politicians who are elected and 95% of them primary goal is to be elected again and not to do sth good for the state. They also can break all their promises and nothing will happen. These politicians are easily corrupt since they need money for their campaign or just personal greed so rich people can influence them. Not to mention all the interregnums you get.
With absolutist you get a person who is raised to be a good ruler, his motive is to make his country great again. And he and his administration doesn't get fucked every 4 years by new political agenda but can work very effectively. It has been clear democracy can't work alone since early stages so we have mix of democracy and technocracy anyways.
Socrates said it well: If you were heading on a journey by the sea, who would you ideally want to decide who was in charge of the vessel just anyone or people educated in rules and demands of seafaring? The later of course. So why do we keep thinking that any person would be fit to judge who should be the ruler of a country? Here his point isn't necessarily that democracy is bad but that most people are not qualified for it. And I personally don't believe ever will be, and there is no real way of deciding who is fit to vote and who isn't, so there goes democracy.
you are confusing platon and Sokrates my dude
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 08, 2018, 11:31:20 am
Democracy* can be just as flawed as an autocracy and often times is. It's why the world needs enlightened monarchs again with unlimited reform power
Yes, with democracy you have a mob of people of which 90% don't know shit about parties they vote for (basically people are not good rulers over themselves). But it is not like you even have any options since all the parties are trash. Then you have politicians who are elected and 95% of them primary goal is to be elected again and not to do sth good for the state. They also can break all their promises and nothing will happen. These politicians are easily corrupt since they need money for their campaign or just personal greed so rich people can influence them. Not to mention all the interregnums you get.
With absolutist you get a person who is raised to be a good ruler, his motive is to make his country great again. And he and his administration doesn't get fucked every 4 years by new political agenda but can work very effectively. It has been clear democracy can't work alone since early stages so we have mix of democracy and technocracy anyways.
Socrates said it well: If you were heading on a journey by the sea, who would you ideally want to decide who was in charge of the vessel just anyone or people educated in rules and demands of seafaring? The later of course. So why do we keep thinking that any person would be fit to judge who should be the ruler of a country? Here his point isn't necessarily that democracy is bad but that most people are not qualified for it. And I personally don't believe ever will be, and there is no real way of deciding who is fit to vote and who isn't, so there goes democracy.
you are confusing platon and Sokrates my dude
It is in Plato's book but it is Socrates saying it, but those conversations are mostly fiction so yes it was Plato's idea probably. So in a way Socrates said nothing we know of.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on June 08, 2018, 04:10:52 pm
Democracy* can be just as flawed as an autocracy and often times is. It's why the world needs enlightened monarchs again with unlimited reform power
Yes, with democracy you have a mob of people of which 90% don't know shit about parties they vote for (basically people are not good rulers over themselves). But it is not like you even have any options since all the parties are trash. Then you have politicians who are elected and 95% of them primary goal is to be elected again and not to do sth good for the state. They also can break all their promises and nothing will happen. These politicians are easily corrupt since they need money for their campaign or just personal greed so rich people can influence them. Not to mention all the interregnums you get.
With absolutist you get a person who is raised to be a good ruler, his motive is to make his country great again. And he and his administration doesn't get fucked every 4 years by new political agenda but can work very effectively. It has been clear democracy can't work alone since early stages so we have mix of democracy and technocracy anyways.
Socrates said it well: If you were heading on a journey by the sea, who would you ideally want to decide who was in charge of the vessel just anyone or people educated in rules and demands of seafaring? The later of course. So why do we keep thinking that any person would be fit to judge who should be the ruler of a country? Here his point isn't necessarily that democracy is bad but that most people are not qualified for it. And I personally don't believe ever will be, and there is no real way of deciding who is fit to vote and who isn't, so there goes democracy.
you are confusing platon and Sokrates my dude
It is in Plato's book but it is Socrates saying it, but those conversations are mostly fiction so yes it was Plato's idea probably. So in a way Socrates said nothing we know of.
Just out of curiosity, how much theoretical statecraft classics did you read? Did you read Aristotle? Cause you cant just take on text and say "Yeah Platon said that!". Carl Popper argues that Platon would have been fine with Hitler. Read Aristotle, he argues against Platon.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 08, 2018, 07:57:41 pm
Democracy* can be just as flawed as an autocracy and often times is. It's why the world needs enlightened monarchs again with unlimited reform power
Yes, with democracy you have a mob of people of which 90% don't know shit about parties they vote for (basically people are not good rulers over themselves). But it is not like you even have any options since all the parties are trash. Then you have politicians who are elected and 95% of them primary goal is to be elected again and not to do sth good for the state. They also can break all their promises and nothing will happen. These politicians are easily corrupt since they need money for their campaign or just personal greed so rich people can influence them. Not to mention all the interregnums you get.
With absolutist you get a person who is raised to be a good ruler, his motive is to make his country great again. And he and his administration doesn't get fucked every 4 years by new political agenda but can work very effectively. It has been clear democracy can't work alone since early stages so we have mix of democracy and technocracy anyways.
Socrates said it well: If you were heading on a journey by the sea, who would you ideally want to decide who was in charge of the vessel just anyone or people educated in rules and demands of seafaring? The later of course. So why do we keep thinking that any person would be fit to judge who should be the ruler of a country? Here his point isn't necessarily that democracy is bad but that most people are not qualified for it. And I personally don't believe ever will be, and there is no real way of deciding who is fit to vote and who isn't, so there goes democracy.
you are confusing platon and Sokrates my dude
It is in Plato's book but it is Socrates saying it, but those conversations are mostly fiction so yes it was Plato's idea probably. So in a way Socrates said nothing we know of.
Just out of curiosity, how much theoretical statecraft classics did you read? Did you read Aristotle? Cause you cant just take on text and say "Yeah Platon said that!". Carl Popper argues that Platon would have been fine with Hitler. Read Aristotle, he argues against Platon.
None, I was just taught base idea of Plato's Republic and heard this quote somewhere and context in which it was used.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on June 08, 2018, 08:06:27 pm
Well thats obviously an issue. Would be a bit like just reading Nazi Historians for you education. Again, read Aristotle, he makes great points against Platon
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on June 08, 2018, 08:31:58 pm
Holy fuck boys, Doug Ford just got elected Premier of Ontario :/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 08, 2018, 09:02:10 pm
Well thats obviously an issue. Would be a bit like just reading Nazi Historians for you education. Again, read Aristotle, he makes great points against Platon
Wat. I don't think democracy is shit because i heard that quote so it is not an issue. Don't have the time currently sorry.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on June 08, 2018, 11:48:10 pm
Holy fuck boys, Doug Ford just got elected Premier of Ontario :/
It’s ya boi
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Stroke0fd34th on June 09, 2018, 12:25:26 am
Holy fuck boys, Doug Ford just got elected Premier of Ontario :/
It’s ya boi
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 14, 2018, 10:30:41 pm
Here we go again, Wallonia 2.0

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-minister-canada-trade/italy-wont-ratify-eu-free-trade-deal-with-canada-farm-minister-idUSKBN1JA0TR
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on June 14, 2018, 11:32:15 pm
>When the Mueller investigations approval ratings are nearing 50% wtf America at least let it run it's course.
5 people have already pleaded guilty on several accounts it's not a witch hunt!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on June 14, 2018, 11:33:46 pm
>When the Muller investigations approval ratings are nearing 50% wtf America at least let it run it's course.
5 people have already pleaded guilty on several accounts it's not a witch hunt!
That's exactly what a witch-hunter would say.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on June 14, 2018, 11:38:54 pm
You realize Mueller was appointed by a Republican right?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on June 15, 2018, 01:39:28 am
>When the Mueller investigations approval ratings are nearing 50% wtf America at least let it run it's course.
5 people have already pleaded guilty on several accounts it's not a witch hunt!
And yet, we're still waiting for charges to be laid on anyone remotely close to Trump (apart from Manafort, which was financial crimes - unrelated to Mueller's scope) and there seems to be little evidence that anything the investigation has produced in relation to the possibility of collusion isn't based off of the Steele dossier, which may not even stand in court.
We knew in 2016 that the Russians interfered with the election process - so what is the investigation doing, then? It's been over a year since Congress appointed him, and so far the questions that he was appointed to answer haven't been answered. So, what is his scope, and when will it run its course? By the next election cycle? That would be rather politically motivated eh?

This
Quote
5 people have already pleaded guilty on several accounts it's not a witch hunt!
is technically correct, but only correct in the sense that it's a mildly productive investigation. Since Trump has been assured privately that he isn't under investigation, and no evidence or charges brought towards him or his family, it seems like the focus on him as the epicenter of collusion reeks of political motives. Republicans grow weary of the investigation not because they believe he's close to a breakthrough, but because most likely it's going to drag on for years more with no important charges laid to the Trump family.

In fact, by laying charges against companies with Russian ties like Concord, they opened themselves up to having to give Putin inner circle people valuable discovery - potentially a massive blunder, and one that feels like they didn't even expect a plea. https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/05/07/with-the-concord-consulting-not-guilty-plea-russians-continue-to-win-the-lawfare-hockey-title/ Seems like a political move gone wrong!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on June 15, 2018, 06:06:28 am
Politically motivated? Again he was appointed by a Republican, several Republicans even applauded the choice of Mueller.
Also ousting Trump isn't in Muellers job descprition his job descrption includes rooting out Russian interferance in the US election which he have been doing how long it takes is irrelevant & if there's been any links between Russia and the Trump campaign which there clearly has been since Trumps son even confirmed having met Russians in Trump tower.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on June 15, 2018, 08:40:00 am
Is it that hard to believe Republicans want Trump gone?
That man in political dynamite and a threat to the Republican party.

The only reason he isn't out yet is because at the moment it causes more damage than it creates oppertunities if Trump would be put aside.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 15, 2018, 10:13:34 am
Quote
Is it that hard to believe Republicans want Trump gone?

Quote
The only reason he isn't out yet is because at the moment it causes more damage than it creates oppertunities if Trump would be put aside.

You kinda countered your own argument  :P
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Nero_ on June 15, 2018, 10:49:40 am
Tommy Robinson has been transferred to a maximum security prison where 73% of the inmates is Muslim, this man is bound to die in there.

UK Court LUL
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 15, 2018, 10:58:24 am
Tommy Robinson has been transferred to a maximum security prison where 73% of the inmates is Muslim, this man is bound to die in there.

UK Court LUL
He broke the law and went to prison. Big deal  ::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on June 15, 2018, 12:37:31 pm
Politically motivated? Again he was appointed by a Republican, several Republicans even applauded the choice of Mueller.
Also ousting Trump isn't in Muellers job descprition his job descrption includes rooting out Russian interferance in the US election which he have been doing how long it takes is irrelevant & if there's been any links between Russia and the Trump campaign which there clearly has been since Trumps son even confirmed having met Russians in Trump tower.
If it’s so clear that close Trump surrogates colluded, Mueller would have brought or recommended charges against them already. He hasn’t, so either
1) there’s not enough evidence or
2) they’re waiting for a better time politically

Either way, it seems like an endless investigation, with political motives, sooooo
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 15, 2018, 01:43:53 pm
@Council: Looks as if I spoke a little soon. My bad.

Tommy Robinson has been transferred to a maximum security prison where 73% of the inmates is Muslim, this man is bound to die in there.

UK Court LUL

Yeah, Tommy's death is pretty much a certainty at this point (according to a contact of his lawyer, he's already been attacked pre-transfer after being left in a room unsupervised with several Muslim inmates).

However, unlike Kevin Crehan (the man who was murdered in his cell after being convicted for throwing bacon at a mosque), Tommy most likely cannot simply be quietly "snuffed out" by our elite leftist judges. Tommy's impending death will make him a sort of martyr in the eyes of many I suspect, offering some much needed rejuvenation to his movement.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 15, 2018, 02:00:04 pm
Jesus Christ the man was sent to prison because he broke the law. It’s not that hard to figure out. Stop acting as if some great injustice has been done against him.

There’s pictures circulating of Tommy Robinson supporters attacking police officers and doing Nazi salutes. That shows the kind of people that he represents. I don’t know about you but I’d rather my Great Grandad didn’t fight all those years ago only for big Dave from London to prance about being a bigot.
 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 15, 2018, 02:15:54 pm
Jesus Christ the man was sent to prison because he broke the law. It’s not that hard to figure out. Stop acting as if some great injustice has been done against him.
That's what I say about everyone that went to gulag in Soviet Russia.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 15, 2018, 02:17:32 pm
Jesus Christ the man was sent to prison because he broke the law. It’s not that hard to figure out. Stop acting as if some great injustice has been done against him.
That's what I say about everyone that went to gulag in Soviet Russia.
You clearly don’t know what’s gone on. He was on a suspended sentence for contempt of court and proceeded to commit the same crime again. Hence the prison sentence.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 15, 2018, 02:18:15 pm
@Council: Looks as if I spoke a little soon. My bad.

Tommy Robinson has been transferred to a maximum security prison where 73% of the inmates is Muslim, this man is bound to die in there.

UK Court LUL

Yeah, Tommy's death is pretty much a certainty at this point (according to a contact of his lawyer, he's already been attacked pre-transfer after being left in a room unsupervised with several Muslim inmates).

However, unlike Kevin Crehan (the man who was murdered in his cell after being convicted for throwing bacon at a mosque), Tommy most likely cannot simply be quietly "snuffed out" by our elite leftist judges. Tommy's impending death will make him a sort of martyr in the eyes of many I suspect, offering some much needed rejuvenation to his movement.
He should burn himself alive on court, perfect martyr.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Nero_ on June 15, 2018, 02:29:56 pm
Jesus Christ the man was sent to prison because he broke the law. It’s not that hard to figure out. Stop acting as if some great injustice has been done against him.
That's what I say about everyone that went to gulag in Soviet Russia.
You clearly don’t know what’s gone on. He was on a suspended sentence for contempt of court and proceeded to commit the same crime again. Hence the prison sentence.
Yeah you're right that sort of scum is right in line with all the rapists, murderers and god knows whats in there!

The inmates shouting death threats at him, do you really think he deserves to be in there? They're in their cells 23 hours a day and the 1 hour he'll be outside he will probably get shivved up.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 15, 2018, 02:31:42 pm
He deserves to be in prison because he broke the law. Maybe not on maximum security but prison all the same.

Read my previous post for the kind of people that follow him. He isn’t some sort of innocent man.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Nero_ on June 15, 2018, 02:45:24 pm
Yes, he deserves a sentence, no doubt.

I don't really know much on the guy but I highly doubt he's encouraging them to assault police officers and do Hitler salutes. Especially considering he's pro-israel.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 15, 2018, 02:49:18 pm
Yes, he deserves a sentence, no doubt.

I don't really know much on the guy but I highly doubt he's encouraging them to assault police officers and do Hitler salutes. Especially considering he's pro-israel.
It doesn’t matter if he’s encouraging them or not, those are the kind of people who support his organisation. Hooligans and bigots who’ll take any opportunity to cause trouble.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 15, 2018, 03:13:59 pm
Yes, he deserves a sentence, no doubt.

I don't really know much on the guy but I highly doubt he's encouraging them to assault police officers and do Hitler salutes. Especially considering he's pro-israel.
It doesn’t matter if he’s encouraging them or not, those are the kind of people who support his organisation. Hooligans and bigots who’ll take any opportunity to cause trouble.
No. I doesn't matter what kind of people support him, it matters what he does.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 15, 2018, 03:15:41 pm
You mean like when he breaks the law?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 15, 2018, 03:31:07 pm
Jesus Christ the man was sent to prison because he broke the law. It’s not that hard to figure out. Stop acting as if some great injustice has been done against him.

There’s pictures circulating of Tommy Robinson supporters attacking police officers and doing Nazi salutes. That shows the kind of people that he represents. I don’t know about you but I’d rather my Great Grandad didn’t fight all those years ago only for big Dave from London to prance about being a bigot.

Are you trolling?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 15, 2018, 03:36:46 pm
Nope. Everything I said there is true.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 15, 2018, 03:42:09 pm
You mean like when he breaks the law?
So he broke a law and now he is guilty of nazi salutes and hooliganism. Good one.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 15, 2018, 03:44:49 pm
You mean like when he breaks the law?
So he broke a law and now he is guilty of nazi salutes and hooliganism. Good one.
Didn’t say that. But those are the kind of people that he associates with.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 15, 2018, 03:46:51 pm
You mean like when he breaks the law?
So he broke a law and now he is guilty of nazi salutes and hooliganism. Good one.
Didn’t say that. But those are the kind of people that he associates with.
So if I go to Vatican with facist symbols and scream support for Pope, Pope is now associated with facism. Good logic.

They associate with him he doesn't with them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 15, 2018, 03:55:11 pm
No because the pope isn’t the same organisation. The EDL were marching in London which is Tommy Robinson’s. The point that I’m making is that it’s ironic for islamaphobes to claim that a small
Minority of extremist Muslims represent over a billion people but claim that these few don’t represent them. It’s hypocritical and shows just how bigoted they are.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 15, 2018, 03:59:34 pm
No because the pope isn’t the same organisation. The EDL were marching in London which is Tommy Robinson’s. The point that I’m making is that it’s ironic for islamaphobes to claim that a small
Minority of extremist Muslims represent over a billion people but claim that these few don’t represent them. It’s hypocritical and shows just how bigoted they are.
Which he isnt member of since 2014 because the group was full of extremists.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 15, 2018, 04:05:59 pm
No because the pope isn’t the same organisation. The EDL were marching in London which is Tommy Robinson’s. The point that I’m making is that it’s ironic for islamaphobes to claim that a small
Minority of extremist Muslims represent over a billion people but claim that these few don’t represent them. It’s hypocritical and shows just how bigoted they are.
Which he isnt member of since 2014 because the group was full of extremists.
He was still the founder and his views haven’t changed since then. My point still stands.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Voluble123 on June 15, 2018, 04:23:08 pm
No because the pope isn’t the same organisation. The EDL were marching in London which is Tommy Robinson’s. The point that I’m making is that it’s ironic for islamaphobes to claim that a small
Minority of extremist Muslims represent over a billion people but claim that these few don’t represent them. It’s hypocritical and shows just how bigoted they are.
Which he isnt member of since 2014 because the group was full of extremists.
He was still the founder and his views haven’t changed since then. My point still stands.
we are having a disscussion about this right now. come to my teamspeak. if you dont know it poke me on 15thyr for the ip adress. Im not having u think he deserves to be in prison and deserves to be in this situation so man the fuck up and talk to me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 15, 2018, 04:39:24 pm
No because the pope isn’t the same organisation. The EDL were marching in London which is Tommy Robinson’s. The point that I’m making is that it’s ironic for islamaphobes to claim that a small
Minority of extremist Muslims represent over a billion people but claim that these few don’t represent them. It’s hypocritical and shows just how bigoted they are.
Which he isnt member of since 2014 because the group was full of extremists.
He was still the founder and his views haven’t changed since then. My point still stands.
No it doesn't. He literally left the organisation because he didn't share views with most of the members. And those members were joined in when he was imprison so he has nothing to do with them.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Jakester on June 15, 2018, 05:54:38 pm
No because the pope isn’t the same organisation. The EDL were marching in London which is Tommy Robinson’s. The point that I’m making is that it’s ironic for islamaphobes to claim that a small
Minority of extremist Muslims represent over a billion people but claim that these few don’t represent them. It’s hypocritical and shows just how bigoted they are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Voluble123 on June 15, 2018, 05:59:23 pm
Jesus Christ the man was sent to prison because he broke the law. It’s not that hard to figure out. Stop acting as if some great injustice has been done against him.
That's what I say about everyone that went to gulag in Soviet Russia.
You clearly don’t know what’s gone on. He was on a suspended sentence for contempt of court and proceeded to commit the same crime again. Hence the prison sentence.
After a 1hr 15minute conversation with Toffee i can confirm he has not watched the liverstream tommy robinson did to see if he released any new information, i can also confirm he was not aware of several news outlets reporting on the charges, names and faces of the alleged and i can also confirm he based his general understanding on what had happened on whaqt someone else has said in something they had written. He is now going off to watch videos himself to make a clarified informed opinion and he will also no longer be spouting absolute bullshit without looking at all the information available. We resume our debate tonight or tommorow when he decides to take his time and look and think for himself instead of being a leftist puppet. k thxs bae
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on June 15, 2018, 06:03:27 pm
Everything is white peoples' fault
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 15, 2018, 06:23:24 pm
Jesus Christ the man was sent to prison because he broke the law. It’s not that hard to figure out. Stop acting as if some great injustice has been done against him.
That's what I say about everyone that went to gulag in Soviet Russia.
You clearly don’t know what’s gone on. He was on a suspended sentence for contempt of court and proceeded to commit the same crime again. Hence the prison sentence.
After a 1hr 15minute conversation with Toffee i can confirm he has not watched the liverstream tommy robinson did to see if he released any new information, i can also confirm he was not aware of several news outlets reporting on the charges, names and faces of the alleged and i can also confirm he based his general understanding on what had happened on whaqt someone else has said in something they had written. He is now going off to watch videos himself to make a clarified informed opinion and he will also no longer be spouting absolute bullshit without looking at all the information available. We resume our debate tonight or tommorow when he decides to take his time and look and think for himself instead of being a leftist puppet. k thxs bae
What a biased post. The only thing I didn't know was the time in which the journalism ban was put in place. You actually agreed with me that Tommy Robinson had broken the law and should be in prison for it. If the ban was appropriate or not is irrelevant because Tommy Robinson still chose to disregard the authority of a court which is in breach of his suspended sentence. It may or may not have been new information but that doesn't matter when he still wilfully defied a court order.

Also I've watched that Ben Shapiro video before. I've never denied that Islam needs reform with regards to certain areas such as it's treatment of women. However, labelling them all as evil is a bit far. Christianity also needs reform with it's treatment of the gay population etc. The telling thing about that video is that when he begins talking about Western populations the statistics are either much lower or he changed the question which was asked to traditionally Islamic countries. 78% of people wanting cartoonists prosecuted doesn't mean they support terrorists or want the collapse of Western culture, does it? The fact that these percentages are lower could suggest that the issue isn't inherently imbedded into Islam but in the societies of certain countries themselves. These lower numbers also imply that it is possible and common for Muslims to become perfectly suited to Western society.

It's way too easy to tarnish people with the same brush. For example it would be wrong to call all right wing followers facists or all left wingers communists. It would be wrong to say that all Christians hate gay people and it's wrong to suggest that Islam is an issue in it's entirety rather than a naturally peaceful religion in which some people exploit, as many do with a number of relgions and have done for thousands of years.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Voluble123 on June 15, 2018, 07:11:01 pm
Jesus Christ the man was sent to prison because he broke the law. It’s not that hard to figure out. Stop acting as if some great injustice has been done against him.
That's what I say about everyone that went to gulag in Soviet Russia.
You clearly don’t know what’s gone on. He was on a suspended sentence for contempt of court and proceeded to commit the same crime again. Hence the prison sentence.
After a 1hr 15minute conversation with Toffee i can confirm he has not watched the liverstream tommy robinson did to see if he released any new information, i can also confirm he was not aware of several news outlets reporting on the charges, names and faces of the alleged and i can also confirm he based his general understanding on what had happened on whaqt someone else has said in something they had written. He is now going off to watch videos himself to make a clarified informed opinion and he will also no longer be spouting absolute bullshit without looking at all the information available. We resume our debate tonight or tommorow when he decides to take his time and look and think for himself instead of being a leftist puppet. k thxs bae
What a biased post. The only thing I didn't know was the time in which the journalism ban was put in place. You actually agreed with me that Tommy Robinson had broken the law and should be in prison for it. If the ban was appropriate or not is irrelevant because Tommy Robinson still chose to disregard the authority of a court which is in breach of his suspended sentence. It may or may not have been new information but that doesn't matter when he still wilfully defied a court order.

Also I've watched that Ben Shapiro video before. I've never denied that Islam needs reform with regards to certain areas such as it's treatment of women. However, labelling them all as evil is a bit far. Christianity also needs reform with it's treatment of the gay population etc. The telling thing about that video is that when he begins talking about Western populations the statistics are either much lower or he changed the question which was asked to traditionally Islamic countries. 78% of people wanting cartoonists prosecuted doesn't mean they support terrorists or want the collapse of Western culture, does it? The fact that these percentages are lower could suggest that the issue isn't inherently imbedded into Islam but in the societies of certain countries themselves. These lower numbers also imply that it is possible and common for Muslims to become perfectly suited to Western society.

It's way too easy to tarnish people with the same brush. For example it would be wrong to call all right wing followers facists or all left wingers communists. It would be wrong to say that all Christians hate gay people and it's wrong to suggest that Islam is an issue in it's entirety rather than a naturally peaceful religion in which some people exploit, as many do with a number of relgions and have done for thousands of years.
"You actually agreed with me that Tommy Robinson had broken the law and should be in prison for it" I agreed he breached the Reporting ban on the case but we both agreed that such a thing should not be in place and even if it was it should be to hide specific details, not the names charges and faces which was already released on the links i showed u.
"If the ban was appropriate or not is irrelevant because Tommy Robinson still chose to disregard the authority of a court which is in breach of his suspended sentence" As i told you it had nothing to do with his suspended sentence and i made that clear to you, he was charged and prisoned for contempt of court FOR livestreaming and reporting when there was a reporting ban, it is common knowledge he didnt break his probation but instead broke a reporting ban therefore leading to bullshit charges for contempt of court when he released no new information.
"However, labelling them all as evil is a bit far. Christianity also needs reform with it's treatment of the gay population etc" Pretty sure gay ppl dont get stoned to death and thrown of buildings in western christian countries? yes its one thing and christianity needs certain reforming but try get a better example.
"These lower numbers also imply that it is possible and common for Muslims to become perfectly suited to Western society" Yes they can become perfectly suited to western society IF they start to fit in and intergrate and mingle with ppl in the communities instead of just congregating in certain areas causing more divide.
"It would be wrong to say that all Christians hate gay people and it's wrong to suggest that Islam is an issue in it's entirety rather than a naturally peaceful religion in which some people exploit, as many do with a number of relgions and have done for thousands of years." Christianity has reformed alot more than Islam and eitherway Islam is prodominetly peaceful and i'm not saying it is not im saying it is too far behind western society and way of life to intergrate efficently within the forseeable future. As the Islamic/Muslim population rises in the UK and Europe, the more divide u will see xD
Also its funny how you stuttered every second during our actual conversation but yet you think your smart when you are typing. I look forward to talking to you later to actually debate instead of tit for tat with bullshit responses.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 15, 2018, 07:40:02 pm
Fucking hell use some paragraphs for the love of god. I agreed that a complete reporting ban should not be in place but that details should be withheld for the sake of a fair trial without outside influence.

You say that you believe Islam is peaceful here but on the you said Islam is “barbaric”.
You clearly don’t understand what you’re on about because the reporting ban breach IS contempt of court because he defied a court order.

And they do “mingle” I’ve spoken to many peaceful Muslims.

Crimes have been committed by Christians against gay people, and some have reformed and some haven’t. You love to ignore this fact though because it doesn’t fit the idea that Islam is harbouring all the evil that you seem to have.

The reason I stuttered in our conversation was because you can’t discuss anything without interrupting every five seconds causing me to lose my train of thought constantly.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 15, 2018, 08:23:47 pm
Religion is garbage, you cant prove god or know what god wants. Cant argue against that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Voluble123 on June 16, 2018, 12:02:53 am
Fucking hell use some paragraphs for the love of god. I agreed that a complete reporting ban should not be in place but that details should be withheld for the sake of a fair trial without outside influence.

You say that you believe Islam is peaceful here but on the you said Islam is “barbaric”.
You clearly don’t understand what you’re on about because the reporting ban breach IS contempt of court because he defied a court order.

And they do “mingle” I’ve spoken to many peaceful Muslims.

Crimes have been committed by Christians against gay people, and some have reformed and some haven’t. You love to ignore this fact though because it doesn’t fit the idea that Islam is harbouring all the evil that you seem to have.

The reason I stuttered in our conversation was because you can’t discuss anything without interrupting every five seconds causing me to lose my train of thought constantly.
"You say that you believe Islam is peaceful here but on the you said Islam is “barbaric”." Sorry ill specify for you, it is generally peaceful but it has parts which are barbaric and yes you can say that for every other religion but do the other religion go round bombing eachother and killing gays in the 21st Century.

"You love to ignore this fact though because it doesn’t fit the idea that Islam is harbouring all the evil that you seem to have." I am not ignoring about other religions, its blantanly obvious the history of all the religions by a bit of research and reading the religious books m8, but if your saying to me all these religions go round killing gays and blowing others up in the 21st century then you are wrong.

"You clearly don’t understand what you’re on about because the reporting ban breach IS contempt of court because he defied a court order." I understand very clearly what i am on about, I see a clear distinction between what he was charged for under court of contempt, and this was because he breached a reporting ban (which should not and did not need to be imposed as the court case was concluding and wouldnt of caused a re trial if ppl was reporting on the situation, refer to harvey weinstein or jimmy saville idk xD) and therefore broke the dodgy law and got arrested for a dodgy reason which lots of people are skeptical about and as to why he got 13 months in a HIGH security prison and got put on a 73% muslim wing in a prison where he is bound to die :/

"And they do “mingle” I’ve spoken to many peaceful Muslims" Clearly not met many types of muslims in Warrington and Morecambe have you pal? Try coming to Birmingham... Pretty sure there aint no radicals in 97% White Warrington or 4.8% muslim Morecambe xD
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 16, 2018, 12:10:43 am
I don’t know about you Voluble but I’ve left my hometown before.

I’m not going to continue to go back and forth with you over the same points since you clearly have little to no understanding of why the law was broken and the reporting ban which did not violate free speech. I cannot continue to explain this to you as I already have a number of times. I agreed with you that Tommy Robinson should not have been placed in a high security prison in a wing that puts him at serious physical risk, but that’s irrelevant to my original point - he was guilty and has been punished accordingly. Suck it up.

 This is the last time I’m going to be posting on the topic or speaking to you voluble. You can’t grasp the basic facts about how law works. I don’t claim to be an expert but this is some basic shit that you can find on google.  You even said that the media should be able to broadcast the verdict during the trial(?). I can’t believe I’ve wasted half my day for that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Voluble123 on June 16, 2018, 01:17:26 am
I don’t know about you Voluble but I’ve left my hometown before.

I’m not going to continue to go back and forth with you over the same points since you clearly have little to no understanding of why the law was broken and the reporting ban which did not violate free speech. I cannot continue to explain this to you as I already have a number of times. I agreed with you that Tommy Robinson should not have been placed in a high security prison in a wing that puts him at serious physical risk, but that’s irrelevant to my original point - he was guilty and has been punished accordingly. Suck it up.

 This is the last time I’m going to be posting on the topic or speaking to you voluble. You can’t grasp the basic facts about how law works. I don’t claim to be an expert but this is some basic shit that you can find on google.  You even said that the media should be able to broadcast the verdict during the trial(?). I can’t believe I’ve wasted half my day for that.

Rich of you to say i have no understanding of the law when you say he should get arrested for 13 months for contempt of court for asking someone "is that your prison bag". I clearly said above why he is in prison and ill say it one last time just so you can process it in your spudhead brain, he is in prison because he reported on a court case which had a reporting ban, therefore committing a contempt of court,simple as that. I have said from the get go that is what happened but the whole arguement is why is there a reporting ban on such a big grooming scandal, surely you want to expose the groomers and not cover them up.  So yes he was guilty and has been punished accordingly, accordingly to a reporting ban that should not of been in place therefore people are rightyfully pissed of and see how unfair it is he is in prison for 13months and is probably going to die if he doesnt get parole. Lastly before i never speak to a retarded everton fan who is like Hursty again, I did say about the broadcast the verdict during the trial, BUT THEN I realised i typed what i meant wrong and instantly corrected myself to what i meant(that people should be able to report outside court houses freely without a reporting ban, especially in such a big scandal), i dont know if you deleted me before my correction or you are just blind with left wing bollocks in your gob. Go back to writing Everton posts on forums when you never go to games and have no m8s :/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 16, 2018, 01:31:31 am
So you agree with me, the reporting ban was there as is the judges right. No free speech was taken, the integrity of the trial was maintained. I don’t understand what football teams have to do with this but if you really want to bring that up, I used to have a season ticket before I ran out of money. And you support a championship club.

Although I suppose if you go and ask Hercules for another go at the playoff final then he’ll let you.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Voluble123 on June 16, 2018, 01:41:51 am
So you agree with me, the reporting ban was there as is the judges right. No free speech was taken, the integrity of the trial was maintained. I don’t understand what football teams have to do with this but if you really want to bring that up, I used to have a season ticket before I ran out of money. And you support a championship club.

Although I suppose if you go and ask Hercules for another go at the playoff final then he’ll let you.
Im already in England mongo, also to clarify I agree  the reporting ban was something decided by the judge but i disagree about the free spech aspect because they should have the freedom to report on what is going on in communities around our country and the affect of muslim grooming gangs. They should be able to report whenever they want and at whatever point during the proceedings along as they release no new information. Journalists should not be limited on when and what they can report on. Then directly after when tommy was arrested, the judge put a reporting ban on tommys court case which to me, sounds like abusing his powers. P.S. Ill do a fund.me for you, £1 a week so you can buy a discounted water bottle and noodles at your local aldi.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 16, 2018, 01:46:46 am
So you agree with me, the reporting ban was there as is the judges right. No free speech was taken, the integrity of the trial was maintained. I don’t understand what football teams have to do with this but if you really want to bring that up, I used to have a season ticket before I ran out of money. And you support a championship club.

Although I suppose if you go and ask Hercules for another go at the playoff final then he’ll let you.
Im already in England mongo, also to clarify I agree  the reporting ban was something decided by the judge but i disagree about the free spech aspect because they should have the freedom to report on what is going on in communities around our country and the affect of muslim grooming gangs. They should be able to report whenever they want and at whatever point during the proceedings along as they release no new information. Journalists should not be limited on when and what they can report on. Then directly after when tommy was arrested, the judge put a reporting ban on tommys court case which to me, sounds like abusing his powers. P.S. Ill do a fund.me for you, £1 a week so you can buy a discounted water bottle and noodles at your local aldi.
The reporting ban was to prevent the trial being affected in any way. Tommy Robinson was live streaming to hundreds of thousands of people, getting in the faces of the defendents and goading them about "prison bags" and that was just the first 3 minutes. If somebody on a high profile criminal case (which these kind of bans are applied to) saw that it could affect the decision making process and create a bias amongst either a jury or a judge. That's why it's there, not to try and block out the free speech of anyone. Once the trial is over the ban would be lifted and Tommy would have been free to discuss the entire case in it's entirety and say whatever he wanted.

A go fund me would help considering you must have a lot of disposable income. I heard ticket prices are a lot cheaper in the lower leagues.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Nero_ on June 16, 2018, 01:53:34 am
Imagine actually taking a fellow human's life because some kid with a towel on his head says so LMFAOOOOO
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Voluble123 on June 16, 2018, 01:55:47 am
So you agree with me, the reporting ban was there as is the judges right. No free speech was taken, the integrity of the trial was maintained. I don’t understand what football teams have to do with this but if you really want to bring that up, I used to have a season ticket before I ran out of money. And you support a championship club.

Although I suppose if you go and ask Hercules for another go at the playoff final then he’ll let you.
Im already in England mongo, also to clarify I agree  the reporting ban was something decided by the judge but i disagree about the free spech aspect because they should have the freedom to report on what is going on in communities around our country and the affect of muslim grooming gangs. They should be able to report whenever they want and at whatever point during the proceedings along as they release no new information. Journalists should not be limited on when and what they can report on. Then directly after when tommy was arrested, the judge put a reporting ban on tommys court case which to me, sounds like abusing his powers. P.S. Ill do a fund.me for you, £1 a week so you can buy a discounted water bottle and noodles at your local aldi.
The reporting ban was to prevent the trial being affected in any way. Tommy Robinson was live streaming to hundreds of thousands of people, getting in the faces of the defendents and goading them about "prison bags" and that was just the first 3 minutes. If somebody on a high profile criminal case (which these kind of bans are applied to) saw that it could affect the decision making process and create a bias amongst either a jury or a judge. That's why it's there, not to try and block out the free speech of anyone. Once the trial is over the ban would be lifted and Tommy would have been free to discuss the entire case in it's entirety and say whatever he wanted.

A go fund me would help considering you must have a lot of disposable income. I heard ticket prices are a lot cheaper in the lower leagues.
Correction, he was streaming to a few thousand people at best, but due to his arrest millions have seen it now to see what has happened to him. Also seeming you are confident that these bans are put onto high profile criminal cases, i need you to instantly tell me your sources and where you have seen this previously to use it in your response to me to jusitfy the judge using the reporting ban. Also in high profile criminal cases, i can say the opposite xD https://gyazo.com/0415e23bcb307cca8f0f338e0da3a6c1 https://gyazo.com/2048e5daef00911af1d4f0314aacbbd6  Here is one new and old example of high profile criminal cases not having reporting bans. So stop your bullshit about it being legit and it doesnt affect free speech and that having reporting causes biased amongst the jury or for the judge. So please enlighten me and show me these other high profile criminal cases the ban has been applied to which you are refering to when you said " (which these kind of bans are applied to)".
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Voluble123 on June 16, 2018, 01:59:23 am
Taking along time to reply, must be trying to find sources to back up some bullshit he had written.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 16, 2018, 02:05:41 am
So you agree with me, the reporting ban was there as is the judges right. No free speech was taken, the integrity of the trial was maintained. I don’t understand what football teams have to do with this but if you really want to bring that up, I used to have a season ticket before I ran out of money. And you support a championship club.

Although I suppose if you go and ask Hercules for another go at the playoff final then he’ll let you.
Im already in England mongo, also to clarify I agree  the reporting ban was something decided by the judge but i disagree about the free spech aspect because they should have the freedom to report on what is going on in communities around our country and the affect of muslim grooming gangs. They should be able to report whenever they want and at whatever point during the proceedings along as they release no new information. Journalists should not be limited on when and what they can report on. Then directly after when tommy was arrested, the judge put a reporting ban on tommys court case which to me, sounds like abusing his powers. P.S. Ill do a fund.me for you, £1 a week so you can buy a discounted water bottle and noodles at your local aldi.
The reporting ban was to prevent the trial being affected in any way. Tommy Robinson was live streaming to hundreds of thousands of people, getting in the faces of the defendents and goading them about "prison bags" and that was just the first 3 minutes. If somebody on a high profile criminal case (which these kind of bans are applied to) saw that it could affect the decision making process and create a bias amongst either a jury or a judge. That's why it's there, not to try and block out the free speech of anyone. Once the trial is over the ban would be lifted and Tommy would have been free to discuss the entire case in it's entirety and say whatever he wanted.

A go fund me would help considering you must have a lot of disposable income. I heard ticket prices are a lot cheaper in the lower leagues.
Correction, he was streaming to a few thousand people at best, but due to his arrest millions have seen it now to see what has happened to him. Also seeming you are confident that these bans are put onto high profile criminal cases, i need you to instantly tell me your sources and where you have seen this previously to use it in your response to me to jusitfy the judge using the reporting ban. Also in high profile criminal cases, i can say the opposite xD https://gyazo.com/0415e23bcb307cca8f0f338e0da3a6c1 https://gyazo.com/2048e5daef00911af1d4f0314aacbbd6  Here is one new and old example of high profile criminal cases not having reporting bans. So stop your bullshit about it being legit and it doesnt affect free speech and that having reporting causes biased amongst the jury or for the judge. So please enlighten me and show me these other high profile criminal cases the ban has been applied to which you are refering to when you said " (which these kind of bans are applied to)".
Actually I was taking a long time because I have other things to do than sit here refreshing 24/7 like you. The judiciary says this "The court may hear trials in private in exceptional circumstances where doing so is necessary to prevent the administration of justice from being frustrated or rendered impractical".

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/reporting-restrictions-guide-may-2016-2.pdf

There is your quote, source and reasoning. And Aston Villa are still fucking shite.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Voluble123 on June 16, 2018, 02:12:47 am
So you agree with me, the reporting ban was there as is the judges right. No free speech was taken, the integrity of the trial was maintained. I don’t understand what football teams have to do with this but if you really want to bring that up, I used to have a season ticket before I ran out of money. And you support a championship club.

Although I suppose if you go and ask Hercules for another go at the playoff final then he’ll let you.
Im already in England mongo, also to clarify I agree  the reporting ban was something decided by the judge but i disagree about the free spech aspect because they should have the freedom to report on what is going on in communities around our country and the affect of muslim grooming gangs. They should be able to report whenever they want and at whatever point during the proceedings along as they release no new information. Journalists should not be limited on when and what they can report on. Then directly after when tommy was arrested, the judge put a reporting ban on tommys court case which to me, sounds like abusing his powers. P.S. Ill do a fund.me for you, £1 a week so you can buy a discounted water bottle and noodles at your local aldi.
The reporting ban was to prevent the trial being affected in any way. Tommy Robinson was live streaming to hundreds of thousands of people, getting in the faces of the defendents and goading them about "prison bags" and that was just the first 3 minutes. If somebody on a high profile criminal case (which these kind of bans are applied to) saw that it could affect the decision making process and create a bias amongst either a jury or a judge. That's why it's there, not to try and block out the free speech of anyone. Once the trial is over the ban would be lifted and Tommy would have been free to discuss the entire case in it's entirety and say whatever he wanted.

A go fund me would help considering you must have a lot of disposable income. I heard ticket prices are a lot cheaper in the lower leagues.
Correction, he was streaming to a few thousand people at best, but due to his arrest millions have seen it now to see what has happened to him. Also seeming you are confident that these bans are put onto high profile criminal cases, i need you to instantly tell me your sources and where you have seen this previously to use it in your response to me to jusitfy the judge using the reporting ban. Also in high profile criminal cases, i can say the opposite xD https://gyazo.com/0415e23bcb307cca8f0f338e0da3a6c1 https://gyazo.com/2048e5daef00911af1d4f0314aacbbd6  Here is one new and old example of high profile criminal cases not having reporting bans. So stop your bullshit about it being legit and it doesnt affect free speech and that having reporting causes biased amongst the jury or for the judge. So please enlighten me and show me these other high profile criminal cases the ban has been applied to which you are refering to when you said " (which these kind of bans are applied to)".
Actually I was taking a long time because I have other things to do than sit here refreshing 24/7 like you. The judiciary says this "The court may hear trials in private in exceptional circumstances where doing so is necessary to prevent the administration of justice from being frustrated or rendered impractical".

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/reporting-restrictions-guide-may-2016-2.pdf

There is your quote, source and reasoning. And Aston Villa are still fucking shite.
Yea you defo spent that whole time looking for a source xD Also it says trials in private in exceptional circumstances? This doesnt class as a exceptional circumstance in the sense of the outcome being affected by reporters reporting on common knowledge? Technically it is applicable but to me atleast, it doesn't qualify for a reporting ban as loads of people get done for grooming kids all the time, this is one of many scandals and this is the only one with a reporting ban as far as im aware. Now i am calling it quits here as we have progressed no where all day as you have a lack of understanding of common sense and the meaning of free speech and i find it highly annoying when you cant formulate any other point but the fact "he broke the law". Ye duh he did but its the stupidity of the law and how and why  it was applied and under what conditions it was applied for that has pissed ppl off. So yeah you can sit there thinking the law is perfect, not like laws change all the time or anything. Ok goodnight and you wont get another response of me so dont bother typing xoxoxo Good night Leftist puppet xoxox
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 16, 2018, 02:18:30 am
Actually I made my self a cheese buttie and ate it, would you like a picture of the plate?
A high profile case comes under exceptional circumstance. Oh and by the way, Harvey Weinstein isn't being tried in the UK so your point is mute. Free speech is fine, but to maintain the integrity of the court things have to be done so that the trial can proceed. If you really care about the result and justice then you would want the trial to go smoothly and without outside interference. You want to shame them, that's fine, but do it when they've actually been found guilty. Free speech doesn't allow you to take away the rights of others, and a right for every person on trial in the UK (guilty or not) is to a fair trial.

The fact that you use phrases like "leftist puppet" makes you look childish. It seems like it's a bit of a safety net phrase for you when you can't seem to formulate anything else to say other than "xD".
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on June 16, 2018, 07:07:18 am
South Africa seems to be doing good
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 16, 2018, 01:59:26 pm
South Africa seems to be doing good
1. Colonise South Africa.
2. Live there for few houndred years.
3. Get expelled from South Africa by 'native' population.
4. Convert to Judaism.
5. Claim land in Palestine.
6. Get land in Palestine.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 16, 2018, 07:14:59 pm
South Africa seems to be doing good
1. Colonise South Africa.
2. Live there for few houndred years.
3. Get expelled from South Africa by 'native' population.
4. Convert to Judaism.
5. Claim land in Palestine.
6. Get land in Palestine.

When you lose a war, you usually also lose some of your land. Looks like the Arabs should have accepted the 1948 Partition Plan!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 16, 2018, 08:05:36 pm
True, they had a reasonable offer on the table and walked away. Israel is clearly behaving badly though and the defeat in 1948 doesn't justify the continuing encroachment of Arab (not Palestinian, there's no such thing) land 70 years later.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 16, 2018, 09:30:56 pm
South Africa seems to be doing good
1. Colonise South Africa.
2. Live there for few houndred years.
3. Get expelled from South Africa by 'native' population.
4. Convert to Judaism.
5. Claim land in Palestine.
6. Get land in Palestine.

When you lose a war, you usually also lose some of your land. Looks like the Arabs should have accepted the 1948 Partition Plan!
That pretty much 17th century mentality to think someone has to right to just take your land because he won a war. I don't think you would consider France taking half of England because French ruled it for ages a good deal.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 16, 2018, 09:38:28 pm
Point aside I welcome our new French overlords
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 16, 2018, 09:47:22 pm
That pretty much 17th century mentality to think someone has to right to just take your land because he won a war. I don't think you would consider France taking half of England because French ruled it for ages a good deal.

I wouldn't consider it because there isn't an ongoing war between England and France as far as I'm aware of. The Arabs lost their land in a conflict they willingly took part in; just how delusional are you to think the Israelis should now withdraw from said land and gift it to a populace that has attempted to exterminate them on numerous occasions.

True, they had a reasonable offer on the table and walked away. Israel is clearly behaving badly though and the defeat in 1948 doesn't justify the continuing encroachment of Arab (not Palestinian, there's no such thing) land 70 years later.

Absolutely, the IDF are far from saints. I'm simply opposed to the all too common accusation that the Jews are the sole instigators of this never-ending conflict.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 16, 2018, 09:58:45 pm
I think it's a very complicated situation with bad things happening on both sides. The victims are innocent people who get caught in the middle.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on June 16, 2018, 10:53:48 pm
I think it's a very complicated situation with bad things happening on both sides. The victims are innocent people who get caught in the middle.
or get used as meatshields
or get paid to stand in the line of fire while being filmed
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Jakester on June 16, 2018, 11:26:20 pm
I think it's a very complicated situation with bad things happening on both sides. The victims are innocent people who get caught in the middle.
or get used as meatshields
or get paid to stand in the line of fire while being filmed
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 17, 2018, 12:14:34 am
That pretty much 17th century mentality to think someone has to right to just take your land because he won a war. I don't think you would consider France taking half of England because French ruled it for ages a good deal.

I wouldn't consider it because there isn't an ongoing war between England and France as far as I'm aware of. The Arabs lost their land in a conflict they willingly took part in; just how delusional are you to think the Israelis should now withdraw from said land and gift it to a populace that has attempted to exterminate them on numerous occasions.

True, they had a reasonable offer on the table and walked away. Israel is clearly behaving badly though and the defeat in 1948 doesn't justify the continuing encroachment of Arab (not Palestinian, there's no such thing) land 70 years later.

Absolutely, the IDF are far from saints. I'm simply opposed to the all too common accusation that the Jews are the sole instigators of this never-ending conflict.
I am not saying Israelis should leave Im just saying it should happen in the first place. Before 20th century Arabs had nothing to do with jews (they had some but thats about it),  after Israel was given land they started to try and exterminate them, just like Israeli Arabs, only they are better at it. I dont know what France and England being at war has to do with anything.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 17, 2018, 12:24:12 am
Actually Jews had been in the Middle East for a long time. Even Jesus was born in the Middle East.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on June 17, 2018, 01:35:13 am
True, they had a reasonable offer on the table and walked away. Israel is clearly behaving badly though and the defeat in 1948 doesn't justify the continuing encroachment of Arab (not Palestinian, there's no such thing) land 70 years later.

Absolutely, the IDF are far from saints. I'm simply opposed to the all too common accusation that the Jews are the sole instigators of this never-ending conflict.

I don't think anyone here's been claiming that Hamas is innocent.

True, they had a reasonable offer on the table and walked away. Israel is clearly behaving badly though and the defeat in 1948 doesn't justify the continuing encroachment of Arab (not Palestinian, there's no such thing) land 70 years later.

What do you mean? The region their in was called Palestine since before the State of Palestine was founded.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on June 17, 2018, 01:49:19 am
Not before it was Judea, Samaria and Galilee
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 17, 2018, 02:12:52 am
Before 20th century Arabs had nothing to do with jews (they had some but thats about it)

What do you mean? The region their in was called Palestine since before the State of Palestine was founded.

This thread makes me lose the will to live sometimes

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on June 17, 2018, 02:23:01 am
Not before it was Judea, Samaria and Galilee

So? Naming their State after the region they live in doesn't make sense? Places change names all the time.

Before 20th century Arabs had nothing to do with jews (they had some but thats about it)

What do you mean? The region their in was called Palestine since before the State of Palestine was founded.

This thread makes me lose the will to live sometimes



Good. ;)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 17, 2018, 02:31:36 am
True, they had a reasonable offer on the table and walked away. Israel is clearly behaving badly though and the defeat in 1948 doesn't justify the continuing encroachment of Arab (not Palestinian, there's no such thing) land 70 years later.

What do you mean? The region their in was called Palestine since before the State of Palestine was founded.

I know, it's not a comment on that. Some people try and claim Palestinians are a distinct group, whether it be along cultural or ethnic lines. They're not. They're simply Arabs who were on the "wrong" side of an artificial border in the post-Ottoman Middle East.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on June 17, 2018, 05:22:51 am
It's funny because they actually got along better before the pact.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on June 17, 2018, 08:15:22 am
True, they had a reasonable offer on the table and walked away. Israel is clearly behaving badly though and the defeat in 1948 doesn't justify the continuing encroachment of Arab (not Palestinian, there's no such thing) land 70 years later.

What do you mean? The region their in was called Palestine since before the State of Palestine was founded.

I know, it's not a comment on that. Some people try and claim Palestinians are a distinct group, whether it be along cultural or ethnic lines. They're not. They're simply Arabs who were on the "wrong" side of an artificial border in the post-Ottoman Middle East.

Ah, sorry for misunderstanding.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 17, 2018, 08:25:52 am
Actually Jews had been in the Middle East for a long time. Even Jesus was born in the Middle East.
You realise there was this thing called second Jewish rebellion after which Romans demolished Jerusalem, enslaved all jews and sold them all over their empire, and created pagan cities in Judea? Since then they have been spread all over the world. They were in Europe, Arabic world, Ethiopia... I don't know how much the arabs have been oppressing them, my guess would be much less than Europe. But that was because they were heatens and it was pretty normal for middle ages to not accept other religions.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 17, 2018, 08:29:23 am
True, they had a reasonable offer on the table and walked away. Israel is clearly behaving badly though and the defeat in 1948 doesn't justify the continuing encroachment of Arab (not Palestinian, there's no such thing) land 70 years later.

What do you mean? The region their in was called Palestine since before the State of Palestine was founded.

I know, it's not a comment on that. Some people try and claim Palestinians are a distinct group, whether it be along cultural or ethnic lines. They're not. They're simply Arabs who were on the "wrong" side of an artificial border in the post-Ottoman Middle East.
You can refere to them as Palestinian as they live in Palestine lands. But I dont know how different are they from Jordanian, Egyptian arabs...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 17, 2018, 09:32:26 am
Actually Jews had been in the Middle East for a long time. Even Jesus was born in the Middle East.
You realise there was this thing called second Jewish rebellion after which Romans demolished Jerusalem, enslaved all jews and sold them all over their empire, and created pagan cities in Judea? Since then they have been spread all over the world. They were in Europe, Arabic world, Ethiopia... I don't know how much the arabs have been oppressing them, my guess would be much less than Europe. But that was because they were heatens and it was pretty normal for middle ages to not accept other religions.
Thanks for that little history lesson but you said Jews had nothing to do with the Arabs before the 20th century. You’ve literally countered your own point.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 17, 2018, 12:33:01 pm
(they had some but thats about it)
'Jews under Islamic rule were given the status of dhimmi, along with certain other pre-Islamic religious groups.[1] Though second-class citizens, these non-Muslim groups were nevertheless accorded certain rights and protections as "people of the book". During waves of persecution in Medieval Europe, many Jews found refuge in Muslim lands.[2] For instance, Jews expelled from the Iberian Peninsula were invited to settle in various parts of the Ottoman Empire, where they would often form a prosperous model minority of merchants acting as intermediaries for their Muslim rulers'

Here is muslims trying to exterminate Jews. So no I didn't counter my own point. Since my point is that muslims hating jews wasn't present in large scale before 20th century. And it started with Israel affair, and is pretty natural.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 17, 2018, 12:51:42 pm
I wouldn’t describe thousands of years of history as “some”
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 17, 2018, 01:31:06 pm
I wouldn’t describe thousands of years of history as “some”
Islam is not even 2000 years old so you cant even use a plural, if we are having nitpicking contest. They are 'some' compared to entire population of arabic world. And even if they weren't just 'some'  jews there it doesn't matters for my point which is they were treated quite well and that arabs hating jews started in 20th century.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 17, 2018, 01:32:11 pm
Arabs and Islam aren’t synonymous
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 17, 2018, 02:08:02 pm
Arabs and Islam aren’t synonymous
They are in context we are talking about as most of Arabs follow islam. Not that it matters since arabs didn't live in middle east for 2000 years as well.
Now stop being a baby and bring me some real arguments.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 17, 2018, 02:32:47 pm
Arabs and Islam aren’t synonymous
They are in context we are talking about as most of Arabs follow islam. Not that it matters since arabs didn't live in middle east for 2000 years as well.
Now stop being a baby and bring me some real arguments.
In context Arabs are Arabs and have always been Arabs. They’ve been around for thousands of years.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Ambiguous on June 17, 2018, 02:40:14 pm
Arabs have less claim to the land of Israel than the Jews, that's just a fact.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 17, 2018, 03:01:30 pm
It just baffles me how they didn’t just accept the partition agreement with the UN
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 17, 2018, 03:06:34 pm
Arabs and Islam aren’t synonymous
They are in context we are talking about as most of Arabs follow islam. Not that it matters since arabs didn't live in middle east for 2000 years as well.
Now stop being a baby and bring me some real arguments.
In context Arabs are Arabs and have always been Arabs. They’ve been around for thousands of years.
But they were not present elsewhere than in Arabia untill 7th century. And they changed since they embraced islam. It is like considering anceint greeks being same as modern greeks or Italians being same as Romans.

Arabs have less claim to the land of Israel than the Jews, that's just a fact.
Now yes. Not in 1948.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 17, 2018, 03:12:19 pm
It just baffles me how they didn’t just accept the partition agreement with the UN
Just accept that half of England is ceded to Italy. After all Roman Empire had that land and Romans lived there. Or maybe to give Yorkshire to Danes, their ancestors lived there. Or maybe France they ruled England for centuries all fancy words in your language are basically French. Perhaps entire England should be given back to Celts living in Scotland and Ireland?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 17, 2018, 03:12:49 pm
Ethnically ancient Greeks and modern Greeks are the same....they’re all still Greek.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 17, 2018, 03:26:24 pm
Ethnically ancient Greeks and modern Greeks are the same....they’re all still Greek.
No they are not. Ethnicity, from the Greek word εθνος, is "a social group that shares a common and distinctive culture, religion, language". They don't speak the same language, dont have same religion... Ethnicity is not genetics. They have been mixing with other peoples so they cant be same. But even if we say they are genetically same what does that have to do with anything, is this middle ages that we give such importance to blood? It is like im 10% black by DNA I can say niㄱㄱa now.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Voluble123 on June 18, 2018, 01:12:05 am
Does everyone on the internet have degrees and masters in history and politics or what?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 18, 2018, 02:00:56 am
Does everyone on the internet have degrees and masters in history and politics or what?
Didn’t realise you needed a degree to talk about something

And Mcpero, I don’t want to sidetrack what I was saying, but the point I’m trying to make is that the Jews and Arabs have been around each other for a long time. The Jews have obviously lived in the Middle East for thousands of years and the Arabs have too.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on June 18, 2018, 10:15:29 am
Yes. That's why it's called Arabia... I mean the Jewish are really 0-1 behind on the Arabs because of that, but I guess it sounded stupid to call it Jewopia.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on June 18, 2018, 03:01:01 pm
You mean Judea? :P
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 18, 2018, 04:45:51 pm
https://youtu.be/jvNVWRhfnuo

Possibly the worst attempt at crowd dispersion ever?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 18, 2018, 05:08:45 pm
Habsburgs and Ottomans at it again.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 18, 2018, 05:52:20 pm
Yes. That's why it's called Arabia... I mean the Jewish are really 0-1 behind on the Arabs because of that, but I guess it sounded stupid to call it Jewopia.

In the Dutch language, up until after world war 2, Jews were often called 'Isrealites' (Israëlieten). There even was a regiment in the early 19th century specifically for Jewish soldiers, called the 'Korps der Israëlieten'. I'm quite sure this was frequently done in the English language as well.

1-1.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on June 18, 2018, 07:25:10 pm
It's probably highly regional, I'm sure in some dialects Israelite is common. As for my region, reflecting on old historical documents, they pretty consistently use 'Hebrew' instead of Israelite or Jew.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 18, 2018, 09:09:29 pm
Does everyone on the internet have degrees and masters in history and politics or what?
Didn’t realise you needed a degree to talk about something

And Mcpero, I don’t want to sidetrack what I was saying, but the point I’m trying to make is that the Jews and Arabs have been around each other for a long time. The Jews have obviously lived in the Middle East for thousands of years and the Arabs have too.
Yeah that is true. But that doesn't change the fact that arab-israeli hate started with 20th century. And was caused by UK thinking they can just give land to whoever they want and not some arab intolerance.

And for you lads I don't know why are you discussing these names as every every group of people can call other group whatever they want. And just because something used to be named Judea that doesn't mean someone has the claim to that land just because of name. As that land probably had 100 other names before Judea and populated many other peoples.
But pretty sure throughout history Europeans reffered to jews by theur groups like Ashkenazi jews... And those living in todays Israel were called Hebrew or just simply jews as religion used to be more important as nationality especially in arab world.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Ambiguous on June 19, 2018, 12:47:49 am
So kicking out people from their homeland and then bringing in foreigners and renaming the land they were settled to makes the claim of the people originally displaced from their land irrelevant? Ok.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Suns on June 19, 2018, 04:06:41 am
So kicking out people from their homeland and then bringing in foreigners and renaming the land they were settled to makes the claim of the people originally displaced from their land irrelevant? Ok.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 19, 2018, 10:02:56 am
So kicking out people from their homeland and then bringing in foreigners and renaming the land they were settled to makes the claim of the people originally displaced from their land irrelevant? Ok.
You are talking about Palestinian Arabs getting kicked out here? Because description fits perfectly.
But probably you are reffering to Hewbrew jews being kicked out of Israel and Arabs renaming the land.  First of all it wasn't arabs the kicked out, enslaved and slaughtered Hewbrew jews. That was done by Romans and Byzantines. Arabs took that land from Byzantines and they called it what they always called it, that wasn't 19th century when ethnocite was popular government policy. And renaming land doesn't increases your claim to the land. They simply made jews pay additional tax that all heatens were paying, and treated them much better than christian Europe.
And secondly are you saying that Jews had stronger claim on Israel than Palestinian Arabs in 1948 even though Arabs lived there as a majority for ~1000 years while Jewish 'claim' is ~1000 years old? If you do than I don't see why you wouldn't support Palestinian Arabs to get their land back (I don't). Jews are living there for ~70 years while Palestinian claim is only ~70 years old. So the fact is Palestinian claim to Israel now is like 10 times stronger than jewish was in 1948.
How would you feel if suddenly there was a mass migration of Indian people into UK in certain areas of England and than after a fee years demanding independent state that would take half an England. I'm pretty sure UK wouldn't just accept some UN proposal that gives Indian people half of their country (well maybe in future when SJW rule completely). Look at the Europe now are you judging Europeans that don't like illegal economic immigrants for Africa and Asia? So why would you judge arabs for hating Israeli when they started to mass immigrate into Israel.  And don't argue but but Israeli had 1000-2000 years old claim to that land. No they didn't we werent in middle ages anymore to make such ridiculous claims. It is like Celts would claim entire Europe or Italy entire France.
And not to mention Hewbrew jews also slaughted and kicked out people that lived in that area, just read the Bible there are battles with other nations.
https://youtu.be/-evIyrrjTTY
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 19, 2018, 04:13:04 pm
>Using the bible as a history book
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Nero_ on June 19, 2018, 04:29:02 pm
MEME CHEVRONS OUTSIDE THE MEME CLUB 😣😣
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 19, 2018, 06:31:51 pm
>Using the bible as a history book
Bible is used source for claims that Hewbrews originate from Israel, which is higly unlikely their civilisation might start there but they were nomads like everyone else. And yes Bible is not the best history source but I am pretty sure Hewbrews did defeat and take land from other peoples living around them.
Pretty disappointed that this is all you had to say about my post, expected more from you.

Anyways what happens if Erdogan doesn't win the elections?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on June 19, 2018, 10:04:35 pm
>Using the bible as a history book
Bible is used source for claims that Hewbrews originate from Israel, which is higly unlikely their civilisation might start there but they were nomads like everyone else. And yes Bible is not the best history source but I am pretty sure Hewbrews did defeat and take land from other peoples living around them.
Pretty disappointed that this is all you had to say about my post, expected more from you.

Anyways what happens if Erdogan doesn't win the elections?
<insert military coup d'etat where 1 helicoptor and 10 enlisted men attack allowing Erdogan to suspend the entire constitution>
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on June 19, 2018, 10:34:28 pm
If he doesn't win (Which he most likely will), another party comes to power and Erdogan is done for. His entire circle is scared of him and wants him gone. The moment people will think he's a sinking ship they'll leave him by the heaps.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 20, 2018, 02:02:40 am
Macron's got a watered down version of his Eurozone budget through:
https://www.ft.com/content/89c1b706-73df-11e8-b6ad-3823e4384287

Quote
"Paris had also sought to ease Berlin’s fears about any fiscal “transfers” from economically strong countries to weaker ones, advocating a system whereby countries could suspend their national contributions if they needed to use the fund."
Unfortunately Germany is still as evil in 2018 as she was in 1914 and 1939...why do small European countries constantly have to suffer for the German national interest?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 20, 2018, 02:07:10 am
Imagine comparing Germany in 2018 to literal Nazis.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on June 20, 2018, 03:13:50 am
Imagine comparing Germany in 2018 to literal Nazis.

I know right, Germany now is much worse.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 20, 2018, 05:10:35 am
Germany is preying on the weak, same as it has always done. It's part of a currency union from which it massively benefits (Germany is an exports-led economy and the euro is massively depreciated vs the Deutsche Mark) yet doesn't want to have a system of fiscal transfers in place to help out the poorer states (as is the norm everywhere else). When the Eurozone economies are healthy that's just greedy, but when many of them have unemployment rates of between 10-20% it's downright cruel and evil.

Germany wants all the benefits but absolutely none of the obligations that usually come with a currency union. Imagine if Californians refused to see their taxes be spent in Ohio or Michigan but still insisted on having total open access to their markets.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 20, 2018, 09:22:51 am
It might be wrong but comparing them to literally murdering tens of millions of people is insane
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 20, 2018, 01:24:57 pm
Another example how 'free trade is best for everyone' is actually just propaganda of economically stronger countries destroying weaker ones. Just like England destroyed France after Eden agreement, should have sticked to mercantilism mr Louis XVI.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 20, 2018, 06:42:12 pm
It might be wrong but comparing them to literally murdering tens of millions of people is insane

I compared the 1914/1939 mentality to modern Germany (essentially the idea Germany has the right to walk all over small European countries), I'm not talking about acts of genocide.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 20, 2018, 06:53:52 pm
“Germany is still as evil as they were in 1914 and 1939”

You didn’t mention mentality. You just spouted shit as though a democratic and peaceful country is comparable to murdering tens of millions of people. Doesn’t matter if their economic policies are right or wrong, either way it’s a ridiculous comparison.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 20, 2018, 08:08:09 pm
I don't get your point.

For the third time Germany has unleashed mass suffering on a continental scale. You can say I'm 'spouting shit' but the economic fundamentals don't lie. Up until the creation of the Euro most European currencies had been strongly depreciating vs the Deutsche Mark for decades. If that had continued then German industrial dominance would have been threatened (particularly given regulatory and tariff barriers were being dismantled within the EEC/EU at the same time):
Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/De3WP7rUEAE4ash.jpg)
[close]

It's not a ridiculous comparison. Modern Germany is behaving as badly as it has done in the past, not including the genocides of course. It's more like the Germany of 1914 than 1939 if that makes it easier for you.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 20, 2018, 09:37:13 pm
Looking out for your own economy over others might be an arsehole thing to do but it isn’t evil. Otherwise you must think Donald Trump is evil?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on June 20, 2018, 10:03:54 pm
I can't go anywhere on social media without seeing a video of the kids in cages at the southern border of the U.S.

TRUMP IS LITERALLY HITLER AND THESE CAMPS ARE LITERALLY JUST LIKE AUSCHWITZ, LIKE LOOK AT THIS AERIAL PHOTO TO PROVE MY POINT AND IGNORE THAT THESE KIDS HAVE FOOD, WATER, A/C AND SCHOOL.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 20, 2018, 10:14:28 pm
I can't go anywhere on social media without seeing a video of the kids in cages at the southern border of the U.S.

TRUMP IS LITERALLY HITLER AND THESE CAMPS ARE LITERALLY JUST LIKE AUSCHWITZ, LIKE LOOK AT THIS AERIAL PHOTO TO PROVE MY POINT AND IGNORE THAT THESE KIDS HAVE FOOD, WATER, A/C AND SCHOOL.
They’re in cages and you think that’s okay?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on June 20, 2018, 10:22:17 pm
I can't go anywhere on social media without seeing a video of the kids in cages at the southern border of the U.S.

TRUMP IS LITERALLY HITLER AND THESE CAMPS ARE LITERALLY JUST LIKE AUSCHWITZ, LIKE LOOK AT THIS AERIAL PHOTO TO PROVE MY POINT AND IGNORE THAT THESE KIDS HAVE FOOD, WATER, A/C AND SCHOOL.
They’re in cages and you think that’s okay?
I don't like them being in cages but their parents set them up for failure by coming here illegally. Breaking the law and then having a child doesn't mean you should just be exempt from breaking the law. A country without laws or borders is no country at all.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 20, 2018, 10:26:13 pm
I can't go anywhere on social media without seeing a video of the kids in cages at the southern border of the U.S.

TRUMP IS LITERALLY HITLER AND THESE CAMPS ARE LITERALLY JUST LIKE AUSCHWITZ, LIKE LOOK AT THIS AERIAL PHOTO TO PROVE MY POINT AND IGNORE THAT THESE KIDS HAVE FOOD, WATER, A/C AND SCHOOL.
They’re in cages and you think that’s okay?
I don't like them being in cages but their parents set them up for failure by coming here illegally. Breaking the law and then having a child doesn't mean you should just be exempt from breaking the law. A country without laws or borders is no country at all.
Nobody says it should but that doesn’t mean you should be allowed to take the child and lock them up. You can deal with illegal immigrants without violating their human rights. The UN even says that the US should stop.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: joer5835 on June 20, 2018, 10:40:02 pm
Most of these children are too young to understand what is happening. On top of that, its just bad for a child's development to seperate it from a parent unless that parent has shown itself to neglect it. What is being done now is an issue that the US Government has with the parents and use their children to punish them. Its a low blow and if you really want to enforce this zero tolerance policy, then do it fairly. Evict the whole family out of the country but don't break up families. Don't punish the children for what their parents did.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 20, 2018, 10:44:29 pm
Economic self-interest of states (and indeed individuals) is perfectly right and valid. The EU however has federal ambitions (don't forget that every German shares a common citizenship with the Southern Europeans, the first words on all our passports are 'European Union'), and the sight of Germany feeding off countries it's in economic and political union with is pretty outrageous. If European unity meant anything then *at the very least* there would be a system of fiscal transfers in place-you can't expect to continually take from the pot without putting anything back in it.

The bigger problem is that German economic policy is built around sacrificing Southern Europe in return for prosperity at home. The Euro is grossly undervalued compared to what the Deutsche Mark would have been, which gives German industry a big competitive advantage when exporting. But for countries like Greece, Spain, Italy etc it's grossly overvalued and that results in unemployment, low pay and stagnation. Germany needs those weaker states inside the club in order to keep the Euro relatively undervalued. Currency is the biggest economic adjustment mechanism there is, when you lose it then economic activity generally flows to the stronger regions (North/South divide in UK, North vs Mezzogiorno in Italy, etc). You can treat the symptoms primarily via fiscal transfers but Germany doesn't even want to do that, even when unemployment approached c.25-30% in several states.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 20, 2018, 11:05:17 pm
Obviously I agree that it’s poor for Germany to prioritise themselves over other European states, but to compare that to Nazism is far fetched at best and stupid at worst. Being a dick isn’t the same as invading countries and slaughtering millions.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 20, 2018, 11:22:53 pm
You've been Toffee'd, Steven. Best give up while you still have some brain cells left
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on June 20, 2018, 11:23:26 pm
You've been Toffee'd, Steven. Best give up while you still have some brain cells left
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 20, 2018, 11:27:06 pm
I think Stevens' point is that German government is still acting as imperialist like it did in time of Second and Third Reich.

Oh and also Trumps policies are actually good for rest of the world while he is fucking over USA. USA has 4% unemployment rate which means their working force is 0. Why does he wants steel factories to return?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on June 20, 2018, 11:44:09 pm
Because it's the only way the incompetent, bloated, and corrupt union steel jobs can hope to compete globally. You do it to get those votes. Democracy isn't enacting sound policy, it's enacting whatever placates the mob to where they reelect you.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 21, 2018, 12:04:27 am
Obviously I agree that it’s poor for Germany to prioritise themselves over other European states, but to compare that to Nazism is far fetched at best and stupid at worst. Being a dick isn’t the same as invading countries and slaughtering millions.

It's the same mentality that led to Nazism, but yeah I'm gonna leave it there lol.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 21, 2018, 12:12:13 am
You've been Toffee'd, Steven. Best give up while you still have some brain cells left
Funny how you say that but have nothing against my point. You actually think this is comparable to Nazism is insane. You could say that he’s talking about Imperialism but Germany isn’t trying to create an empire. The mentality in Germany in 1939 was one of racism and global domination. It’s a poor comparison which was the only point I was making (I actually agree that they’re kind of being arseholes based on the point you’ve made) but Being selfish is a different beast than starting a god damn world war. Some Brits love to criticise Germany for continually taking with contribution but that’s what the UK has been moaning about for a while.

And William you quoted that but didn’t say anything back to my point against you since you enjoy locking kids in cages and watching your country fall apart a little bit more every day.

Gordo and William struggle to have conversations outside of circle jerking so they resort chatting shite instead.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 21, 2018, 01:48:33 am
You've been Toffee'd, Steven. Best give up while you still have some brain cells left
You could say that he’s talking about Imperialism but Germany isn’t trying to create an empire

The major feature of an empire is the ability to extract resources from the periphery to the metropole.

The EU is of course German dominated; it has been for some time and will be for the foreseeable future. As to whether the EU has become a kind of German imperial project that's a whole different subject. What I would say is that the 'Mitteleuropa' and 'limited sovereignty' plans adopted by the German High Command during WWI are interesting reading. I'm not alleging some kind of grand conspiracy, it's basically just pure luck that Germany has got to where it is.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on June 21, 2018, 01:54:24 am
We have been locking kids in cages for years.  It's only coming out now because the Obama circle-jerk has ended.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 21, 2018, 02:22:41 am
You've been Toffee'd, Steven. Best give up while you still have some brain cells left
You could say that he’s talking about Imperialism but Germany isn’t trying to create an empire

The major feature of an empire is the ability to extract resources from the periphery to the metropole.

The EU is of course German dominated; it has been for some time and will be for the foreseeable future. As to whether the EU has become a kind of German imperial project that's a whole different subject. What I would say is that the 'Mitteleuropa' and 'limited sovereignty' plans adopted by the German High Command during WWI are interesting reading. I'm not alleging some kind of grand conspiracy, it's basically just pure luck that Germany has got to where it is.
Of course the EU will be dominated by the larger nations. That’s just the nature of the organisation. In principle each member has their own vote but bigger countries have more sway. That doesn’t mean Germany is intending to turn the Europe into the fourth reich or something. Each member state is going to prioritise their own interests above others. France does it, Germany does it, the UK does it. It may be wrong but that’s just how it is. Politicians all talk about cooperation but they’re all out for personal gain no matter which country they’re from.

Sure the EU needs reform. But it’s impossible to do that from the outside. The EU is not an empire, and is certainly a better option than going it alone. The EU is a very close trading partner and the trade we have is vital to British interests, especially considering Trump’s extreme protectionism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 21, 2018, 05:36:29 am
I personally favour CANZUK over the EU and would like to see a union of Anglopshere states (minus the USA, which wouldn't want to join anyway) in my lifetime. There's real momentum for it too which is quite exciting and the NZ-AUS relationship provides a good template.

At the very least CANZUK should work towards completing defence integration which is already at quite an advanced stage.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 21, 2018, 07:58:25 am
Because it's the only way the incompetent, bloated, and corrupt union steel jobs can hope to compete globally. You do it to get those votes. Democracy isn't enacting sound policy, it's enacting whatever placates the mob to where they reelect you.
I mean I know its for the votes, but economically speaking it just a loss.

USA leaving UN hooman rights council. Nice. At least we wont have to watch that disgusting creature Nikki Haley.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 21, 2018, 09:18:26 am
I personally favour CANZUK over the EU and would like to see a union of Anglopshere states (minus the USA, which wouldn't want to join anyway) in my lifetime. There's real momentum for it too which is quite exciting and the NZ-AUS relationship provides a good template.

At the very least CANZUK should work towards completing defence integration which is already at quite an advanced stage.
But natural geography means the EU will always be a large trading partner. In the absence of a deal the tariffs could hit the economy real hard.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on June 21, 2018, 09:53:06 am
Because it's the only way the incompetent, bloated, and corrupt union steel jobs can hope to compete globally. You do it to get those votes. Democracy isn't enacting sound policy, it's enacting whatever placates the mob to where they reelect you.
I mean I know its for the votes, but economically speaking it just a loss.

But sadly, none of that really matters. The public doesn't care about what is good for the longevity of the nation and their future children, they care about their gratification now. It's why the U.S. debt will never be reigned in, anyone who tries to cut here or there gets voted out; it's much easier for the public to accept that they're ruining their kid's future than to take on temporary hardships themselves.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 21, 2018, 10:12:14 am
British people accusing a country of imperialist policies. Ha.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 21, 2018, 11:31:13 am
British people accusing a country of imperialist policies. Ha.
That was part of the point I was trying to make but sadly everyone here has a habit of over reaction.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on June 21, 2018, 01:02:39 pm
In the meantime our latest Dutch poltical crisis was a Turkish (pro-Erdogan) political party faking an add for Geert Wilder's party that said 'let's cleanse the Netherlands [of maroccans/immigrants, red]'. Sometimes I count myself lucky with the fanatically boring politicians we have.


Spoiler
love you, Sybrand
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 21, 2018, 01:36:37 pm
British people accusing a country of imperialist policies. Ha.
Brtish imperialism in the past has nothing to do with german imperialism in present times. UK seems to be going more for old USA seclusion with brexit. So a nice 'humorous' remark but pretty invalid.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 21, 2018, 01:43:51 pm
If you’re referencing German imperialism in the 20th century then you can’t disregard someone talking about British imperialism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Lone on June 21, 2018, 02:11:32 pm
refugees welcome
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on June 21, 2018, 03:02:56 pm
Because it's the only way the incompetent, bloated, and corrupt union steel jobs can hope to compete globally. You do it to get those votes. Democracy isn't enacting sound policy, it's enacting whatever placates the mob to where they reelect you.
I mean I know its for the votes, but economically speaking it just a loss.

USA leaving UN hooman rights council. Nice. At least we wont have to watch that disgusting creature Nikki Haley.
Not like the council cares about human rights anyways
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 21, 2018, 04:02:39 pm
If you’re referencing German imperialism in the 20th century then you can’t disregard someone talking about British imperialism.

British people accusing a country of imperialist policies. Ha.
Brtish imperialism in the past has nothing to do with german imperialism in PRESENT times. UK seems to be going more for old USA seclusion with brexit. So a nice 'humorous' remark but pretty invalid.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 21, 2018, 04:06:01 pm
Yeah and Steven, the person who was bringing up that mentioned 1914 and 1939....
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 21, 2018, 04:27:59 pm
Yeah and Steven, the person who was bringing up that mentioned 1914 and 1939....
He was comparing Germany in 1871-1945 to present Germany and I never saw him claiming UK at the time wasn't imperialist, which it was just had different methods, UK had smaller army than Belgium prior to 1914, they achived domination through diplomacy mostly. So saying: 'stop complaining about german imperialism when your country (UK) was imperialist in 20th century' is pretty pointless.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 21, 2018, 04:35:49 pm
Why are you bringing up random facts? Because they had a smaller army and achieved some parts of their empire through diplomacy it doesn’t make them imperialist? All duuring was doing was pointing out the irony.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 21, 2018, 05:18:10 pm
Why are you bringing up random facts? Because they had a smaller army and achieved some parts of their empire through diplomacy it doesn’t make them imperialist? All duuring was doing was pointing out the irony.

Yeah and Steven, the person who was bringing up that mentioned 1914 and 1939....
He was comparing Germany in 1871-1945 to present Germany and I never saw him claiming UK at the time wasn't imperialist, which IT WAS just had different methods, UK had smaller army than Belgium prior to 1914, they achived domination through diplomacy mostly. So saying: 'stop complaining about german imperialism when your country (UK) was imperialist in 20th century' is pretty pointless.
Facts were pretty random though. But please pay more attention when you are reading.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 21, 2018, 05:25:46 pm
You literally edited it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 21, 2018, 05:40:42 pm
You literally edited it.
5 minutes before you replied yes. I think I added the last part. Or corrected a typo don't remember.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 21, 2018, 05:49:15 pm
You literally edited it.
5 minutes before you replied yes. I think I added the last part. Or corrected a typo don't remember.
No you changed the bit which I was replying to, after I began typing my
Reply...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 21, 2018, 06:08:42 pm
Funny how you say that but have nothing against my point. You actually think this is comparable to Nazism is insane. You could say that he’s talking about Imperialism but Germany isn’t trying to create an empire. The mentality in Germany in 1939 was one of racism and global domination. It’s a poor comparison which was the only point I was making (I actually agree that they’re kind of being arseholes based on the point you’ve made) but Being selfish is a different beast than starting a god damn world war. Some Brits love to criticise Germany for continually taking with contribution but that’s what the UK has been moaning about for a while.

And William you quoted that but didn’t say anything back to my point against you since you enjoy locking kids in cages and watching your country fall apart a little bit more every day.

Gordo and William struggle to have conversations outside of circle jerking so they resort chatting shite instead.

Steven's already argued (rather successfully) against your point like five times, why would I now need to?

"You actually think this is comparable to Nazism is insane."

Don't put words in my mouth. Nazism was never the main point of discussion here - more the toxic German mentality that led to both the first world world, the Third Reich, and now the EU.

You could say that he’s talking about Imperialism but Germany isn’t trying to create an empire.

empire (ĕmˈpīrˌ)
n. A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 21, 2018, 06:14:32 pm
What’s successful? The fact that he compared a peaceful nation to one building an empire? Are you implying that Germany is going to start another world war? Hardly similar mentality is it? They’re not trying to wrest democracy away from all other countries. Sure you can argue for the definition of imperialism being extending power by various means but if Germany fit that then so does the UK, US, Russia and basically any major nation on Earth.

The EU is not solely controlled by the Germans so that would counter the empire definition. Sure they have a lot of influence but so do France and the UK before Brexit.

The single supreme authority would apply a lack of democracy, which the EU is not. You could argue the whole Brussels controlling everything think but the same could be argued for Westminster etc.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 21, 2018, 07:10:03 pm
The EU is very much controlled by Germany, which was always inevitable after the fall of the Berlin Wall. There's a reason why Cameron spent more time negotiating with Berlin than Brussels in the build up to the referendum, and why the Obama-Merkel relationship was so close. Brussels used to be run via the 'Franco-German motor', with Germany as the senior partner. For the best part of two decades however France has been in relative decline vs Germany and the latter now dictates EU policy.

There are few countries on Earth that extract wealth from foreign populations via some form of political control. Germany is one of them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 21, 2018, 07:50:27 pm
You literally edited it.
5 minutes before you replied yes. I think I added the last part. Or corrected a typo don't remember.
No you changed the bit which I was replying to, after I began typing my
Reply...
lol no.

The EU is very much controlled by Germany, which was always inevitable after the fall of the Berlin Wall. There's a reason why Cameron spent more time negotiating with Berlin than Brussels in the build up to the referendum, and why the Obama-Merkel relationship was so close. Brussels used to be run via the 'Franco-German motor', with Germany as the senior partner. For the best part of two decades however France has been in relative decline vs Germany and the latter now dictates EU policy.

There are few countries on Earth that extract wealth from foreign populations via some form of political control. Germany is one of them.
French goverment is pretty retarded, they are policing Africa and getting almost nothing out of it. Idk what they are doing with their country.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on June 21, 2018, 08:48:31 pm
Obviously I agree that it’s poor for Germany to prioritise themselves over other European states, but to compare that to Nazism is far fetched at best and stupid at worst. Being a dick isn’t the same as invading countries and slaughtering millions.

Snowflake.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 21, 2018, 09:23:01 pm
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/the-jihadi-training-camp-right-in-the-heart-of-london-a3249941.html

Nothing to see here
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 21, 2018, 10:14:38 pm
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/the-jihadi-training-camp-right-in-the-heart-of-london-a3249941.html

Nothing to see here
Can't wait for EU internet law thing, when there will be no such news left on interent, disgusting fake news. Protecc me EU censorship.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 21, 2018, 10:26:19 pm
The EU might be heavily influenced by Germany (as other institutions such as UN etc are influenced by people like the US) but that doesn’t make it undemocratic by itself.

And Kore thanks for your interesting addition to the conversation. You’re a real intellectual.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on June 21, 2018, 11:46:34 pm
Anytime.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 22, 2018, 12:10:13 am
Can't wait for EU internet law thing, when there will be no such news left on interent, disgusting fake news. Protecc me EU censorship.

I know right, I'm literally shaking right now
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on June 22, 2018, 08:36:41 am
When they just had to fuck up something that was good. FEELSFUCKINGBADMAN
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on June 22, 2018, 08:46:20 am
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/the-jihadi-training-camp-right-in-the-heart-of-london-a3249941.html

Nothing to see here

When the system cannot protect its own inmates from other inmates, there is more than enough ground to be considerably worried.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 22, 2018, 02:33:09 pm
Airbus threatening to withdraw their business from the UK in the event of a no deal Brexit. They employ 14,000 people. Scary stuff.

Are we still trusting Theresa May to negotiate a deal for our futures?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 22, 2018, 02:58:02 pm
Airbus would have been leaving regardless of the deal on the table as it's a highly politicised company set up by the EU in the first place. They won't allow any of its significant business operations to remain in a non-EU member state for long, primarily because it's a job creation racket that relies on illegal government subsidy.

UK manufacturing still faces two problems though: maintaining EU certification/license to export post-Brexit, plus whether supply-chains will continue to run as efficiently (if there are long queues at the border you can forget JIT).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 22, 2018, 03:38:42 pm
Sure it’s heavily owned by EU member stages but it’s surely in the UK’s best interests to persuade them to stay. I’m pretty sure they also have manufacturing bases in China so it’s not solely based in EU countries.
That’s why there’s such a big issue surrounding the access to EU markets. We exported 48% of our goods to the EU in 2016 and that number is sure to drop if some kind of deal isn’t reached to maintain the current trading climate. Although it’s doubtful that would happen without pretty heavy concessions from May.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 22, 2018, 04:18:59 pm
Re-read my comment. You can't persuade them to maintain a significant presence as it's not a private, commercial operation. It's heavily subsidised by the European Union and they will not be subsidising jobs in the UK post-Brexit.

Airbus operations in China are limited to assembly. The actual heavy manufacturing takes place in the EU and the parts are then shipped over where they're needed. Airbus only has a presence in China because they sell a lot of planes there. Airbus UK will continue but in a heavily reduced capacity.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 22, 2018, 04:27:22 pm
And how will those jobs be replaced?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 22, 2018, 04:35:52 pm
No idea, but given the UK has a lot of aviation expertise this presents an opportunity for Boeing, Textron and Bombardier.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 22, 2018, 04:42:32 pm
And how will those jobs be replaced?
Gender studies. Can employ anyone as professor there.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 22, 2018, 04:43:26 pm
That’s true Steven, but for a number of people Brexit is already going to have ruined them financially. I really worry about the stability of the economy when so many aspects of post Brexit abritain are undecided.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 22, 2018, 06:53:49 pm
Because according to Toffee it's OK for the EU to ruin people financially, but not Brexit!


Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 22, 2018, 07:12:12 pm
Because according to Toffee it's OK for the EU to ruin people financially, but not Brexit!
What a stupid comment. Without a deal with the EU the economy is going to take a massive hit and people are going to lose jobs. Can you honestly say with the way things are going at the minute jay we’re all going to be better off after Brexit? There’s no deal on the table with the EU and no major trading partners have signed new trade deals with us.

3 million jobs are directly linked to exports with the EU. They’re not all reliant on membership of course but the lives of a lot of people are going to be affected with more potential job losses. Even leaked government papers predict lower economic growth outside of the EEA.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.uk.businessinsider.com/how-government-leaked-brexit-economics-paper-compares-to-other-forecasts-2018-1
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 22, 2018, 07:23:15 pm
Because according to Toffee it's OK for the EU to ruin people financially, but not Brexit!
What a stupid comment. Without a deal with the EU the economy is going to take a massive hit and people are going to lose jobs. Can you honestly say with the way things are going at the minute jay we’re all going to be better off after Brexit? There’s no deal on the table with the EU and no major trading partners have signed new trade deals with us.

3 million jobs are directly linked to exports with the EU. They’re not all reliant on membership of course but the lives of a lot of people are going to be affected with more potential job losses. Even leaked government papers predict lower economic growth outside of the EEA.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.uk.businessinsider.com/how-government-leaked-brexit-economics-paper-compares-to-other-forecasts-2018-1

It was an observation from your earlier posts in this thread, not my opinion lol. 

Thanks for your link to a forecast, they've certainly proven extremely reliable and insightful thus far.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 22, 2018, 07:29:38 pm
You knew what I meant considering the obvious fact that a better economy helps people in the country, a bad deal with the EU will mean more people suffer financially than if we remained.

The forecasts aren’t always right, obviously, since markets are volatile and predicting the future isn’t exactly a sure thing but if the government who are the very people negotiating on our behalf think that our chances aren’t great then it doesn’t make me feel very optimistic.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 22, 2018, 09:53:25 pm
EU did destroy some jobs but not as much as Brexit will.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 23, 2018, 04:06:57 pm
I can't go anywhere on social media without seeing a video of the kids in cages at the southern border of the U.S.

TRUMP IS LITERALLY HITLER AND THESE CAMPS ARE LITERALLY JUST LIKE AUSCHWITZ, LIKE LOOK AT THIS AERIAL PHOTO TO PROVE MY POINT AND IGNORE THAT THESE KIDS HAVE FOOD, WATER, A/C AND SCHOOL.

I'm not sure what you were complaining about, I've seen only memes so far. Maybe it serves you right for not unfollowing 60% of your friends list ;)

latest one I've seen, low res but still gold
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35886936_1611179825675508_6526584044749062144_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=736ab5049d750b40631c1ae4beee150f&oe=5BEB7CEF)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on June 25, 2018, 04:04:55 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h7VGCnEh3Y
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 25, 2018, 10:42:40 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h7VGCnEh3Y
Still better turn of events than US occupation since 1945.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 25, 2018, 03:40:41 pm
Harley Davidson talking about moving investment out of the US
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 25, 2018, 05:40:50 pm
That's one big step to solving the migrant crisis in the Med. Now lock up the NGO boat crews and seize their ships.
http://www.france24.com/en/20180625-nearly-1000-migrants-rescued-off-libya-coast-navy

If you stop trafficking them across and instead tow them back to North Africa then they'll stop coming. The policy worked well for Australia-dead kids don't wash up on Bondi Beach.
 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on June 25, 2018, 06:58:51 pm
So Erdogan won...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 25, 2018, 09:49:25 pm
He probably has more support than Merkel

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 25, 2018, 10:48:40 pm
So Erdogan won...
A shocker.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on June 26, 2018, 12:17:02 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h7VGCnEh3Y
Still better turn of events than US occupation since 1945.

Nice bait.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 26, 2018, 01:02:53 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h7VGCnEh3Y
Still better turn of events than US occupation since 1945.

Nice bait.
What bait? I don't see any EU soldiers in Europe only US ones.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on June 28, 2018, 08:18:31 pm
I'm always for militarism
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/28/europe/france-national-service-trnd/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/28/europe/france-national-service-trnd/index.html)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 28, 2018, 08:23:23 pm
I'm always for militarism
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/28/europe/france-national-service-trnd/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/28/europe/france-national-service-trnd/index.html)

Macron is bringing back national service? But I thought CNN, BBC et al said he was the anti-Trump liberal hero.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 28, 2018, 08:28:59 pm
I'm always for militarism
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/28/europe/france-national-service-trnd/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/28/europe/france-national-service-trnd/index.html)

Macron is bringing back national service? But I thought CNN, BBC et al said he was the anti-Trump liberal hero.
Don’t think anybody really thought he was actually liberal. It’s just he wasn’t as right leaning as Trump.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on June 28, 2018, 08:35:56 pm
Macron confirmed alt-right
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 28, 2018, 08:40:43 pm
Macron is imperialist cuck.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 28, 2018, 09:02:13 pm
I'm always for militarism
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/28/europe/france-national-service-trnd/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/28/europe/france-national-service-trnd/index.html)

Macron is bringing back national service? But I thought CNN, BBC et al said he was the anti-Trump liberal hero.

Community service might be a more accurate description, and there's nothing anti-liberal in such a service, even if it is mandatory. That's just overly simplistic. By the same logic, the laws enforcing school education (what these kids would otherwise be doing) would also be anti-liberal.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 28, 2018, 09:23:01 pm
I'm always for militarism
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/28/europe/france-national-service-trnd/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/28/europe/france-national-service-trnd/index.html)

Macron is bringing back national service? But I thought CNN, BBC et al said he was the anti-Trump liberal hero.
Don’t think anybody really thought he was actually liberal. It’s just he wasn’t as right leaning as Trump.

He was variously described in the MSM as a 'Liberal Strongman', France's 'answer to Justin Trudeau' and even a 'French Kennedy'. Most hacks probably had an orgasm when he unveiled his 'Make the Planet Great Again' stunt.

Community service might be a more accurate description, and there's nothing anti-liberal in such a service, even if it is mandatory. That's just overly simplistic. By the same logic, the laws enforcing school education (what these kids would otherwise be doing) would also be anti-liberal.

Except it's not really community service so no that's not a more accurate description. They have to do one month in 'civic culture' (whatever that means) then 3-12 months in the military (albeit with opt-outs). It's watered down to be a bit less militaristic from what he initially wanted but the vast bulk of the programme is focused on military service. Sure people can opt out of that to volunteer for other stuff but it's still an 'opt out' rather than 'opt in' military programme.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 28, 2018, 10:32:15 pm
I'm always for militarism
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/28/europe/france-national-service-trnd/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/28/europe/france-national-service-trnd/index.html)

Macron is bringing back national service? But I thought CNN, BBC et al said he was the anti-Trump liberal hero.

Community service might be a more accurate description, and there's nothing anti-liberal in such a service, even if it is mandatory. That's just overly simplistic. By the same logic, the laws enforcing school education (what these kids would otherwise be doing) would also be anti-liberal.
In a way education is anti-anarcho-liberal, which is extreme liberalism but liberalism and conservativism are not necessarily about what their names apply. So I strongly agree militarism is not connected to conservativism or liberalism. But comparing education and military is pretty dumb. Since military is counter productive activity while education is very productive.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 28, 2018, 10:45:17 pm
Military service can be useful for other things other than defence. Teaches discipline and hard work, although I personally feel forced service takes away persons freedoms.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 28, 2018, 10:46:57 pm
Military service can be useful for other things other than defence. Teaches discipline and hard work, although I personally feel forced service takes away persons freedoms.
Like school doesn't do that? Military is waste of time for young people who are in best position to learn things and after that their IQ starts decreasing. It is expensive and makes for a shit army.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on June 28, 2018, 10:56:51 pm
I use twitter quite a bit and I'm dismayed at this new movement that calls out whites 24/7 in extremely derogatory manners simply for being white. However, if a minority is called out then they call hate crime. It gets more annoying whenever they call white people 'land stealers' who took their rightful land from their ancestors. Do people have no idea that humanity is a history of struggle against one another with losers and winners?

Social media will be the downfall of Western Civilization because it only allows radical beliefs to grow and fester into mainstream ideas. Rather then having a middle it's just pushing people to both fringes

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 28, 2018, 11:06:46 pm
Quote
Social media will be the downfall of Western Civilization because it only allows radical beliefs to grow and fester into mainstream ideas. Rather then having a middle it's just pushing people to both fringes

We were literally commiting genocides less then 80 years ago but dear God Twitter will be the end of us!!!!1
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 28, 2018, 11:15:21 pm
Except it's not really community service so no that's not a more accurate description. They have to do one month in 'civic culture' (whatever that means) then 3-12 months in the military (albeit with opt-outs). It's watered down to be a bit less militaristic from what he initially wanted but the vast bulk of the programme is focused on military service. Sure people can opt out of that to volunteer for other stuff but it's still an 'opt out' rather than 'opt in' military programme.

While this is no doubt a good move overall from Macron, I'm skeptical as to whether it will be enough to tackle France's epic failure of migrant integration. France's problem with terrorism is arguable worse than ours in the UK (who thought it possible) so the French really need to lay it on thick; community spirit alone won't keep those young men from Morocco in line.

Military service can be useful for other things other than defence. Teaches discipline and hard work, although I personally feel forced service takes away persons freedoms.
Like school doesn't do that? Military is waste of time for young people who are in best position to learn things and after that their IQ starts decreasing. It is expensive and makes for a shit army.

Schools in the west haven't taught discipline for a very long time, specifically dating back to when physical punishment was ruled out (pun intended).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on June 28, 2018, 11:21:46 pm
Social Media certainly generates quite a unique issue in that it puts you into echo chambers of your own political views, essentially killing public political debate. I know a lot of people who are not used to being exposed to views different of their own.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 28, 2018, 11:23:28 pm
Social Media certainly generates quite a unique issue in that it puts you into echo chambers of your own political views, essentially killing public political debate. I know a lot of people who are not used to being exposed to views different of their own.

And you think that's a new situation? Or that we only now become aware of this?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on June 28, 2018, 11:32:14 pm
Social Media certainly generates quite a unique issue in that it puts you into echo chambers of your own political views, essentially killing public political debate. I know a lot of people who are not used to being exposed to views different of their own.

And you think that's a new situation? Or that we only now become aware of this?
Well what do you define as new? Since you mainly meet new people over the internet nowadays it certainly make the effect stronger then in prior years (I think).

Or that we only now become aware of this?
?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 28, 2018, 11:38:41 pm
People have always gravitated towards those with similar views, that’s just human nature. You say social media kills public debate but if anything it enhances it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on June 28, 2018, 11:40:46 pm
People have always gravitated towards those with similar views, that’s just human nature. You say social media kills public debate but if anything it enhances it.
Enhances it? People just block you if they dont agree with you. You cant block someone in RL. How exactly does it enhance public debate?!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 28, 2018, 11:52:52 pm
People have always gravitated towards those with similar views, that’s just human nature. You say social media kills public debate but if anything it enhances it.
Enhances it? People just block you if they dont agree with you. You cant block someone in RL. How exactly does it enhance public debate?!
People who block you won’t debate you in real life because they don’t want the disagreement. There are thousands of discussions about politics on social media every day. Way more than in public because it’s much easier to talk to someone online from all around the world.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on June 28, 2018, 11:55:47 pm
People have always gravitated towards those with similar views, that’s just human nature. You say social media kills public debate but if anything it enhances it.
Enhances it? People just block you if they dont agree with you. You cant block someone in RL. How exactly does it enhance public debate?!
People who block you won’t debate you in real life because they don’t want the disagreement. There are thousands of discussions about politics on social media every day. Way more than in public because it’s much easier to talk to someone online from all around the world.
Where? Im pretty active on Twitter, following people from pretty much EVERY political spectrum. I dont read discussions. I just read people telling people they agree with that they are right.

Blocking is a LOT easier then walking away from a discussion Toffee wouldnt you agree? :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on June 28, 2018, 11:58:41 pm
People have always gravitated towards those with similar views, that’s just human nature. You say social media kills public debate but if anything it enhances it.
Enhances it? People just block you if they dont agree with you. You cant block someone in RL. How exactly does it enhance public debate?!
That was the American election of 2016 summed up. Groupthink on a massive scale left people stunned at the idea of a Trump victory and even today I find stuff saying '2018 vibes, block all Trump supporters because we don't need that racist energy' 

Quote
Social media will be the downfall of Western Civilization because it only allows radical beliefs to grow and fester into mainstream ideas. Rather then having a middle it's just pushing people to both fringes

We were literally commiting genocides less then 80 years ago but dear God Twitter will be the end of us!!!!1
Uniformed mobs of idiots roaming the streets trying to hurt or kill people based on political or racial status worries me because that is exactly how genocides start: going after a group for being different or having something you don't have.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 29, 2018, 12:02:09 am
And before that, who did people talk to? Their neighbours, their colleagues, their fellow church-goers; the people in the same social class as they, from the same region (or even street) as they.

The Dutch concept of columnization is a perfect example of a divided society living in their little echo-boxes. There were Catholic schools, Catholic hospitals, Catholic unions, Catholic societies, Catholic sport organizations, Catholic newspaper and later even Catholic radio and TV. Same for the protestants, same for the socialists, and in lesser degree the same for Liberals (who were a tiny upper-middle class group) and Jews (who most people just ignored as much as they could). My history Teacher told us about how he was not allowed to even talk with kids in his own street because they were of the different religion, and how he had to cycle all the way through town for the Catholic school even though there was a perfectly fine (Protestant) school very close.

People always think the times they live in are definitely worse then those in the past. Please. The people who only listen to those who agree with them on twitter are the same people shouting you would go to hell for reading a Protestant newspaper 50 years ago. Nothing has changed, just the way we experience it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 29, 2018, 12:02:26 am
People have always gravitated towards those with similar views, that’s just human nature. You say social media kills public debate but if anything it enhances it.
Enhances it? People just block you if they dont agree with you. You cant block someone in RL. How exactly does it enhance public debate?!
People who block you won’t debate you in real life because they don’t want the disagreement. There are thousands of discussions about politics on social media every day. Way more than in public because it’s much easier to talk to someone online from all around the world.
Where? Im pretty active on Twitter, following people from pretty much EVERY political spectrum. I dont read discussions. I just read people telling people they agree with that they are right.

Blocking is a LOT easier then walking away from a discussion Toffee wouldnt you agree? :)
What about what we’re doing right now? We’ve all been discussing politics for years from the comfort of our homes. This happens all over the internet. And if someone walks away from a conversation with you please don’t continue to follow them. That’s slightly weird
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on June 29, 2018, 12:07:24 am
I really like the quote from Adam Curtis Documentary "Hypernormalisation" (Go watch it my dudes): "Their Opposition was only read by people already backing their believes, so it had no effect"

And before that, who did people talk to? Their neighbours, their colleagues, their fellow church-goers; the people in the same social class as they, from the same region (or even street) as they.

The Dutch concept of columnization is a perfect example of a divided society living in their little echo-boxes. There were Catholic schools, Catholic hospitals, Catholic unions, Catholic societies, Catholic sport organizations, Catholic newspaper and later even Catholic radio and TV. Same for the protestants, same for the socialists, and in lesser degree the same for Liberals (who were a tiny upper-middle class group) and Jews (who most people just ignored as much as they could). My history Teacher told us about how he was not allowed to even talk with kids in his own street because they were of the different religion, and how he had to cycle all the way through town for the Catholic school even though there was a perfectly fine (Protestant) school very close.

People always think the times they live in are definitely worse then those in the past. Please. The people who only listen to those who agree with them on twitter are the same people shouting you would go to hell for reading a Protestant newspaper 50 years ago. Nothing has changed, just the way we experience it.
I do believe that there was a tiny timeframe from the 80s to ~2010 where it was different.

People have always gravitated towards those with similar views, that’s just human nature. You say social media kills public debate but if anything it enhances it.
Enhances it? People just block you if they dont agree with you. You cant block someone in RL. How exactly does it enhance public debate?!
People who block you won’t debate you in real life because they don’t want the disagreement. There are thousands of discussions about politics on social media every day. Way more than in public because it’s much easier to talk to someone online from all around the world.
Where? Im pretty active on Twitter, following people from pretty much EVERY political spectrum. I dont read discussions. I just read people telling people they agree with that they are right.

Blocking is a LOT easier then walking away from a discussion Toffee wouldnt you agree? :)
What about what we’re doing right now? We’ve all been discussing politics for years from the comfort of our homes. This happens all over the internet. And if someone walks away from a conversation with you please don’t continue to follow them. That’s slightly weird
I was talking about major Social Media, not FSE. And I never said that im following people who walk away from me? Its harder to run from an actual discussion because you have to face defeat, you are essentially publicly shamed because you couldnt take part in the debate anymore. On Twitter you press a button
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 29, 2018, 12:15:31 am
Quote from: Gordo

Schools in the west haven't taught discipline for a very long time, specifically dating back to when physical punishment was ruled out (pun intended).
I agree schools should do more to teach kids discipline and hard work which they don't really in Europe and North America. Physical punishment is not needed to teach discipline and can be harmful for development of young. Though that doesn't mean force shouldn't be allowed to use in school when it is necessary (protecting other students...)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 29, 2018, 12:18:57 am
Caz, twitter literally allows anybody to tweet at the President of the USA, the most powerful man in the world. Could you say that before social media? It allows people to voice their opinion better than ever before.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 29, 2018, 12:20:45 am
Not too mention it helps organizing and mobilizing voters, especially hard to reach groups like first-time-voters and minorities. That's the real impact of social media on politics.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Cazasar on June 29, 2018, 12:22:53 am
Not too mention it helps organizing and mobilizing voters, especially hard to reach groups like first-time-voters and minorities. That's the real impact of social media on politics.
Another point that is adressed extremely well by Hypernormalisation. Again, can only recomment watching.

Caz, twitter literally allows anybody to tweet at the President of the USA, the most powerful man in the world. Could you say that before social media? It allows people to voice their opinion better than ever before.
How often does he respond? I agree on the opinion bit, but voicing your opinion and debating are 2 kinds of things.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 29, 2018, 12:25:07 am
Caz, twitter literally allows anybody to tweet at the President of the USA, the most powerful man in the world. Could you say that before social media? It allows people to voice their opinion better than ever before.
Only it is usually (in case of celebrities -  lets be honest here most people wont see or care what Bill Dill wrote)  not their opinion. They are saying things that benefit them and won't say thing that will hurt their reputation. Or even worse just push ideas of other people for something in return. It is like supposed free media, where in USA you have this big news companies that just bombarded with anti Trump propaganda while smaller news companies aren't really noticed.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 29, 2018, 12:30:01 am
Not too mention it helps organizing and mobilizing voters, especially hard to reach groups like first-time-voters and minorities. That's the real impact of social media on politics.
Voters should find a party/politocal ideas they would support themselves, otherways they are not fit to vote.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 29, 2018, 11:07:49 am
Okay, I understand you probably think you weren't succesfully targeted by a political organisation, because people tend to think those effects only work on other people, but I can assure you, you were.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 29, 2018, 01:47:43 pm
Quote
Social media will be the downfall of Western Civilization because it only allows radical beliefs to grow and fester into mainstream ideas. Rather then having a middle it's just pushing people to both fringes

We were literally commiting genocides less then 80 years ago but dear God Twitter will be the end of us!!!!1

"WE"
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 29, 2018, 03:15:58 pm
Okay, I understand you probably think you weren't succesfully targeted by a political organisation, because people tend to think those effects only work on other people, but I can assure you, you were.
Oh yeah you know better than me of course. I was only influenced by a few teachers who were not part of any political organisations.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 29, 2018, 03:22:10 pm
Okay, I understand you probably think you weren't succesfully targeted by a political organisation, because people tend to think those effects only work on other people, but I can assure you, you were.
Oh yeah you know better than me of course. I was only influenced by a few teachers who were not part of any political organisations.
Teachers who vote. Who have been influenced and then influence you in turn.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 29, 2018, 06:38:49 pm
Okay, I understand you probably think you weren't succesfully targeted by a political organisation, because people tend to think those effects only work on other people, but I can assure you, you were.
Oh yeah you know better than me of course. I was only influenced by a few teachers who were not part of any political organisations.

Unless you live in a shed with no internet (apart from FSE of course) and have succesfully avoided all human interaction (except those teachers I guess?) since the day of your birth, you have been the target of a political campaign at some point in your life. If you open a newspaper with political news, you already are.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on June 29, 2018, 09:36:49 pm
Okay, I understand you probably think you weren't succesfully targeted by a political organisation, because people tend to think those effects only work on other people, but I can assure you, you were.
Oh yeah you know better than me of course. I was only influenced by a few teachers who were not part of any political organisations.

Teachers are often extremely politically active. I wish I could be in this mystical realm of non-partisan teachers.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Suns on June 29, 2018, 09:38:15 pm
Okay, I understand you probably think you weren't succesfully targeted by a political organisation, because people tend to think those effects only work on other people, but I can assure you, you were.
Oh yeah you know better than me of course. I was only influenced by a few teachers who were not part of any political organisations.

Teachers are often extremely politically active. I wish I could be in this mystical realm of non-partisan teachers.

teachers unions.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 29, 2018, 09:41:21 pm
In the UK, teachers in high schools aren’t supposed to politically influence their students.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on June 29, 2018, 09:44:41 pm
I'm not sure they are anywhere. What people are supposed to do and what they actually do is often divergent.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 29, 2018, 09:45:35 pm
The EU's very own 'Fall of Saigon' moment.
https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-eu-staff-workload-european-parliament-elections-brexit-legislation/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 29, 2018, 10:10:51 pm
The EU's very own 'Fall of Saigon' moment.
https://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-eu-staff-workload-european-parliament-elections-brexit-legislation/

Yeah... I doubt we're gonna see a 100.000 KIA and WIA due to an overworked staff. You sure have this weird habit of connecting events today with completely unparalled events in the past. First Germany is just as bad as it was in 1939 and now...well I truly don't know what the parallel is you are trying to draw. Just stop being so dramatic, or I'm gonna have to find all the predictions you made in the past because I really don't have anything better to do anyway.

Too late, I did.

Meh, when Italy leaves the Eurozone (only a matter of time) others will follow and it'll collapse.

Still waiting.

Dutch elections in a little over a week, what are the predictions? I reckon Wilders will lead the largest party but will get nowhere near government. Also Rutte won't stay on as PM either-you can't lose almost half your support verses last time and still carry on.

Wrong, and ooh, wrong.

The EU has never looked weaker and I should think all it would take would be another economic or political crisis to drive it over the cliff edge.

Literally more then a year ago but ok.
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on June 29, 2018, 10:23:20 pm
Woops I double-posted and cos I'm not a moderator anymore I can't remove it. Shame.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 29, 2018, 11:56:43 pm
I've broken Duuring.

The phrase "Fall of Saigon moment" is an historical idiom in common usage. It simply means the symbolic end of a regime. It does not mean there has to be 100,000+ dead or whatever. Similar historical idioms include "Crossing the Rubicon" (which when used today does not actually mean crossing the Rubicon river) and "The Die is Cast" (does not actually mean casting a die) etc. You've learnt English from a textbook so don't expect to know everything a native speaker would.

As for the predictions they've turned out quite well in my opinion.
Has Italy left the Eurozone? Not yet but I said it was a matter of time. Given current Italian politics how sure are you they won't? I note the odds at the bookies of it happening have been slashed considerably.

Sure, Wilders only came second and Rutte scraped through to remain as PM.

The prediction re: EU disintegration/collapse still stands. Even Druncker is admitting the migrant crisis is ripping the bloc apart.

So, in short, your understanding of the English language needs work and you're claiming I don't know what I'm talking about because my long-term predictions haven't occurred within the space of 12 months. Okay.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 30, 2018, 12:04:00 am
Actually, the phrase is “the die is cast”. If you’re going to lecture someone on English, at least get it right yourself.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on June 30, 2018, 12:12:36 am
Duuring calling out someone for making inaccurate predictions?

Oh boy, you'd be in trouble had you not deleted the 2016 politics thread.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 30, 2018, 12:39:21 am
Duuring calling out someone for making inaccurate predictions?

Oh boy, you'd be in trouble had you not deleted the 2016 politics thread.

Yes, which is ironic.

Actually, the phrase is “the die is cast”. If you’re going to lecture someone on English, at least get it right yourself.

Common misconception. The original Latin states 'alea', which means 'a game of dice'. It is not meant to be taken as a singular die. I originally put 'Let the dice be thrown', which according to Mary Beard is the most exact translation, but then changed it back and f*cked it up.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 30, 2018, 12:50:49 am
Duuring calling out someone for making inaccurate predictions?

Oh boy, you'd be in trouble had you not deleted the 2016 politics thread.

Yes, which is ironic.

Actually, the phrase is “the die is cast”. If you’re going to lecture someone on English, at least get it right yourself.

Common misconception. The original Latin states 'alea', which means 'a game of dice'. It is not meant to be taken as a singular die. I originally put 'Let the dice be thrown', which according to Mary Beard is the most exact translation, but then changed it back and f*cked it up.
So you fucked it up. My point stands. Also please don’t censor yourself.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 30, 2018, 12:53:38 am
Duuring calling out someone for making inaccurate predictions?

Oh boy, you'd be in trouble had you not deleted the 2016 politics thread.

Yes, which is ironic.

Actually, the phrase is “the die is cast”. If you’re going to lecture someone on English, at least get it right yourself.

Common misconception. The original Latin states 'alea', which means 'a game of dice'. It is not meant to be taken as a singular die. I originally put 'Let the dice be thrown', which according to Mary Beard is the most exact translation, but then changed it back and f*cked it up.
So you fucked it up. My point stands. Also please don’t censor yourself.

Don't get sassy with me boi

(https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/black-woman-attitude_4523.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on June 30, 2018, 12:57:48 am
I have no shame I do what I want.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on June 30, 2018, 02:57:08 am
Oo, while we’re on the topic of Latin phrases done wrong in English, Descartes didn’t start with “cogito ergo sum”, he started with merely “cogito sum”, “I think, I am” because at that point he’d not been able to remove logic from skeptical doubt. It was only after getting logic back did he say “I think therefore I am”

Haha! Continue as before
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 30, 2018, 09:27:41 am
Duuring calling out someone for making inaccurate predictions?

Oh boy, you'd be in trouble had you not deleted the 2016 politics thread.

Stalinist photoshop has nothing on me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 30, 2018, 10:08:56 am
Okay, I understand you probably think you weren't succesfully targeted by a political organisation, because people tend to think those effects only work on other people, but I can assure you, you were.
Oh yeah you know better than me of course. I was only influenced by a few teachers who were not part of any political organisations.

Unless you live in a shed with no internet (apart from FSE of course) and have succesfully avoided all human interaction (except those teachers I guess?) since the day of your birth, you have been the target of a political campaign at some point in your life. If you open a newspaper with political news, you already are.
I don't really much news and if I do I usually look up different newspapers, so I can see 2 different fake news. So you are saying every thing on internet and every human interaction is product of some political organisation/campaign nice one.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on June 30, 2018, 10:10:51 am
Okay, I understand you probably think you weren't succesfully targeted by a political organisation, because people tend to think those effects only work on other people, but I can assure you, you were.
Oh yeah you know better than me of course. I was only influenced by a few teachers who were not part of any political organisations.

Teachers are often extremely politically active. I wish I could be in this mystical realm of non-partisan teachers.
Yeah I had only like 2 partisan teachers.

Upsy I double posted but I no longer have mod to remove it. So sad, what a shame.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on June 30, 2018, 08:01:15 pm
cheeky
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 30, 2018, 08:27:59 pm
Hey Steven, could you give me an example of someone using 'Fall of Saigon' as a idiom for the end of a regime? Cos I have never seen anyone do that and google search doesn't present me with anything but various links to the actual Fall of Saigon.

Changed my search-item and found a few. Still, they commonly link to end-scenario's (Because the Fall of Saigon was not a deciding moment, but merely the concluding chapter after the final Vietnamese offensive). How is overworked employees an end-scenario for the EU?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 30, 2018, 09:14:09 pm
I was referring to the fact that they're scrambling to get everything done before an expected Eurosceptic surge in the 2019 elections, rather than employees being tired which is merely a symptom. As Saigon was falling the Americans were rushing to destroy documents, pull out employees and South Vietnamese officials etc. They were in such a rush they resorted to incinerating cash reserves held in the US Embassy amounting to several million dollars.

It's a symbolic end of what you could call the EU's internal 'liberal order' (essentially the Franco-German consensus). It's going to be a very different EU; not only will the EU Parliament have an even bigger eurosceptic bloc but Tusk, Juncker et al probably aren't going to be replaced by like-minded people and the Spitzenkandidat process is kinda dead anyway.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 30, 2018, 09:31:39 pm
Quote
not only will the EU Parliament have an even bigger eurosceptic bloc

Are you kidding? The ECR loses nearly half its membership because the Conservatives are out, and they're soft Eurosceptic anyway; the EFDD is going to lose its 19 UKIP members and will lose faction status if their single Polish, Czech or Lithuanian MEP's lose their re-election (and that's when we pretend that their French MEPS will somehow manage their re-election even though they are split-offs). That leaves the ENF, which, after Brexit, will have members from only seven nations, meaning they also can't afford a single party losing its representation. Their German member is a AfD-split-off and their Polish members' party gained 0.05% in the 2015 national elections, so yeaaah, good luck with that.

Sure, the 5-star Movement will grow (The same 5-star movement that tried to join ALDE a few months ago in the biggest meme of European party politics of the century), and so will the AfD, but that's not going to create some sort of revolution as the EPP is going to remain the biggest faction anyway and ALDE is going to be sky-rocketed by En Marche. And that's when we assume En Marche is not going to form its new (Let's just say it) Federalist Political Group. It's incredibly ironic, but Brexit might just signal the worst European Election for the Eurosceptics since the creation of the European parliament. Now, it's of course possible EFDD and ENF manage to get all their current members elected (Just incredibly unlikely), and EFDD will probably be saved by a new Dutch party entering the European Parliament. Yes, there is going to be a shift of power in the European Parliament, but nothing is going to change about the current division. EPP will be first, S&D second, ALDE third and ECR fourth (Although the left factions are kinda breathing down its neck). Maaaaybe ALDE will overtake S&D, but that's about it.

Also, let's make a prediction: Next president of the European Council will be Mark Rutte.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 30, 2018, 09:49:48 pm
There will be big gains in Eastern Europe, Italy, Austria, Sweden and Germany for eurosceptics. That will more than balance out the loss of the UK contingent. Looking at groupings is misleading imo since a lot tag along with EPP/PES anyway.

Mark Rutte? Maybe. I'd have thought they'd want a women though (it's a ceremonial job anyway). Real fight will be over who succeeds Juncker. Visegrad+ potentially have the numbers to block an appointment but not enough to impose their own candidate. Both sides will have to compromise somewhere in the middle though that'd be more toxic for Berlin/Paris than Warsaw/Rome/etc.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 30, 2018, 10:13:23 pm
There will be big gains in Eastern Europe, Italy, Austria, Sweden and Germany for eurosceptics.

So what are we talking? 20 seats? 30? 40? 50? They need at least 30 to just keep up their current share of the seats.

Now, if we base our assumption on national polls (which we shouldn't, but whatever)

Germany: +8
Italy: +13 (a bit more if two eurosceptic parties manage to get over the threshold)
Austria: +2 (Probably only +1 but let's give them the benefit of the doubt)
Sweden: +2
Poland: +5 (Probably only +4 but again I gave them the benefit of the doubt) and if you count Kukiz 15 as eurosceptics, +2

So that's actually exactly 30. Now, I'm gonna say FvD gains four seats, and various other eurosceptic parties somehow manage to gain another 10, so that's a seat gain of 44. I've been fairly gracious, so I think that's a pretty accurate number. At the same time, they lose 19 UKIP, 18 Conservatives and one bloke from DUP, so that's a loss of 38. Net gain...six. Revolution.

Quote
Looking at groupings is misleading imo since a lot tag along with EPP/PES anyway.

Yet for finances, support, committee assignments and some other stuff it's vital. Political Groups are not bound of faction discipline (especially eurosceptic ones who are pretty inactive in the European Parliament anyway), but they're still fairly important.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 30, 2018, 11:18:02 pm
Hang on, I'm not saying groups aren't important. I was simply saying you can't just look at ECR or EFDD numbers to tally eurosceptics. Plenty of eurosceptic parties send their MEPs to sit within the EPP or PES. Orban is public enemy no.1 in Brussels yet still sends his MEPs to sit within the EPP (same with Kurz, hell even the British Conservatives used to sit with them).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on June 30, 2018, 11:20:13 pm
Okay, so which parties did I miss that will create a grand rise of Eurosceptics?

If you include Kurz (and I guess Orban too), we're already watering down the definition of a 'Eurosceptic' to include even parties that strongly support membership of the EU and even the euro.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on June 30, 2018, 11:58:20 pm
I thought we were including soft euroscepticism? You can believe in a community of European countries whilst still being anti-EU. Orban's vision of such a community is just radically different from that of Merkel's.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on July 01, 2018, 05:49:01 am
Have you nerds discussed the skyrocketing amount of farm murders (and white discrimination in general) in South Africa? The world might witness another civil war, this time racial based, very soon.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on July 01, 2018, 06:08:28 am
Have you nerds discussed the skyrocketing amount of farm murders (and white discrimination in general) in South Africa? The world might witness another civil war, this time racial based, very soon.
Can't wait for the certain nutbags to say that the whites deserve it for the apartheid
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on July 01, 2018, 06:12:11 am
Have you nerds discussed the skyrocketing amount of farm murders (and white discrimination in general) in South Africa? The world might witness another civil war, this time racial based, very soon.
Can't wait for the certain nutbags to say that the whites deserve it for the apartheid

Hopefully, none of them will speak up  ;D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on July 01, 2018, 08:23:03 am
Have you nerds discussed the skyrocketing amount of farm murders (and white discrimination in general) in South Africa? The world might witness another civil war, this time racial based, very soon.
But but evil white man took land from them and expelled them (like 500 years ago)! It is their land that their gods gave them you bigggot!!! Just like God gave land to Hewbrews and now they have permanent claim on it!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on July 01, 2018, 10:55:29 am
I thought we were including soft euroscepticism? You can believe in a community of European countries whilst still being anti-EU. Orban's vision of such a community is just radically different from that of Merkel's.

Yeah, if you make the broadest definition of a eurosceptic (basically anyone who doesn't want further federalization), maybe their 'bloc' is growing. But with En Marche, so is the federalization bloc. The hard eurosceptic bloc, meanwhile, is shattering.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on July 01, 2018, 03:26:39 pm
I'm not sure En Marche are actually going to win big...latest projections have them at c22 MEPs. Largest party sure, but Le Pen's group are projected to get c18, Republicans c14 so it's not *that* big a win compared to who comes 2nd/3rd. Plus if current trends continue then Macron's popularity will potentially fall even further by the time the vote actually happens...next French Presidential election is 2022, Macron will still be pushing through unpopular things in 2019 as it's the middle of the electoral cycle.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on July 01, 2018, 03:52:16 pm
I'm not sure En Marche are actually going to win big...latest projections have them at c22 MEPs. Largest party sure, but Le Pen's group are projected to get c18, Republicans c14 so it's not *that* big a win compared to who comes 2nd/3rd. Plus if current trends continue then Macron's popularity will potentially fall even further by the time the vote actually happens...next French Presidential election is 2022, Macron will still be pushing through unpopular things in 2019 as it's the middle of the electoral cycle.

That's a boost from nothing to +22 which is the most significant single-party shift we are going to see. ALDE doesn't suffer at all from Brexit, so doesn't have any damage to repair (unlike the Eurosceptics). There's also Ciudadanos in Spain which is set to go from 3 seats to 10 to 14. If all the other parties just don't lose anything or wins and losses even eachother out (ANO 2011, for example, is likely to gain two or three Czech seats), just the Spanish and French gains are enough to put ALDE over 100 seats.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on July 01, 2018, 06:58:17 pm
Good.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on July 02, 2018, 03:31:01 pm
We're obviously still a year off, of course. A lot can happen in a year.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on July 03, 2018, 07:33:12 pm
Not sure this is a good idea...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/world/europe/denmark-immigrant-ghettos.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on July 03, 2018, 11:24:20 pm
Not sure this is a good idea...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/world/europe/denmark-immigrant-ghettos.html
Why?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: BabyJesus on July 05, 2018, 12:39:04 am
Happy birthday America, the best country in the world
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on July 05, 2018, 02:29:36 am
Happy birthday <3

(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/854976282648397246/D4C3E7D424741D099AFCD668C252E36951FB9288/)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Theodin on July 05, 2018, 03:04:45 am
we did that
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on July 05, 2018, 03:10:20 am
Not sure this is a good idea...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/world/europe/denmark-immigrant-ghettos.html

it is
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: BabyJesus on July 05, 2018, 04:12:41 pm
we did that
bet you can’t do it again
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on July 05, 2018, 09:57:18 pm
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/european-parliament-rejects-controversial-copyright-law-1124978?

We're safe! ... For now.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on July 09, 2018, 02:48:42 pm
So how is that brexit going? Cos really, I don't even know anymore. Can someone (seriously) please just enlighten me?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on July 10, 2018, 12:14:10 am
So how is that brexit going? Cos really, I don't even know anymore. Can someone (seriously) please just enlighten me?
All the politicians that 'wanted'  it retired.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on July 12, 2018, 07:10:33 pm
So how is that brexit going? Cos really, I don't even know anymore. Can someone (seriously) please just enlighten me?

No idea, ball is back in EU's court after May signed off on the latest round of proposals so it's up to Brussels to examine them. Should be a formality as Merkel has already signed off on them (May's been negotiating with Berlin only for the last month).

In other news Juncker is drunk at yet another international summit, stumbling all over the place in front of the cameras and had to be helped by several leaders. They're claiming he just had back pain... ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKC_EeA4LUU
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Ted on July 12, 2018, 08:12:36 pm
He isn't drunken, he's suffering from Sciatica. The movement of his left leg shows that quite clearly, that's 100% not alcohol-induced. Look at his left leg, then at his right, then compare to the rest of his body. It can be seen easily, especially in this video, and as being a student of medicine I'm actually starting to get pissed about all these people thinking that kind of walk was based on an alcohol problem. You can't imagine the amount of discrimination people suffering of these kinds of nervous illnesses face every day. It's rooted in his Plexus lumbosacralis, not in his whole central nervous system, everyone who has at least some idea of how a body works can see that. That's a regional reaction, not a central one, which - guess what - hurts like hell in your back

But "nooooo, I have no idea about what I see there, but let's just claim hes being drunk and jerk myself off on that because it makes me feel good". There might have been cases where he was drunk, dunno, but he certainly wasn't sufferig alcohol-induced movement restrictions there. That's a regional nervous problem, not a central one.

No offense to you, but to the video-uploader.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on July 12, 2018, 08:49:54 pm
Juncker has a history of getting drunk at these kinds of summits and embarrassing himself. Last year his aides had to babysit him in his room after he got pissed during UN peace talks over Cyprus. He may well have been both drunk and suffering from sciatica. My wife isn't here (Junior Doctor) so I'll take your word for it. But his claim to have not been drunk isn't helped by his fucking about in Trump's chair at the summit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Ted on July 12, 2018, 08:55:22 pm
Juncker has a history of getting drunk at these kinds of summits and embarrassing himself. Last year his aides had to babysit him in his room after he got pissed during UN peace talks over Cyprus. He may well have been both drunk and suffering from sciatica. My wife isn't here (Junior Doctor) so I'll take your word for it. But his claim to have not been drunk isn't helped by his fucking about in Trump's chair at the summit.

I agree with you when it comes to his appearance as a whole at the moment and at other meetings. After all, his love for alcohol has been known quite well. But I'm still pretty annoyed by the fact that at this point no one cares about proper observation any more, people just jump on what they want to think. He would need to be a pretty good actor and have quite a lot of self-control to make alcohol-abusus look like this.  :P
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on July 13, 2018, 12:05:39 am
https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-theresa-mays-brexit-plan-will-kill-us-trade-deal-11435355

Interesting development
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on July 13, 2018, 12:57:22 am
US sticking their nose where it isn’t wanted. If he was that arsed about trade with the UK then he wouldn’t have slapped tariffs on us.

A trade deal with the US after Brexit would be great, but we shouldn’t let Trump define to us our negotiations with the EU. It’s a matter for this country to decide, not him. He’s always used threats to get his way.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: AP0CALYPS3 on July 13, 2018, 04:01:14 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbVI_ecxZqs
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Earth Bby on July 13, 2018, 05:24:18 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbVI_ecxZqs

saw this made me lol hard

> include the welsh  8)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on July 13, 2018, 12:41:32 pm
Walexit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on July 13, 2018, 02:19:36 pm
Lol Trump massively helped the EU's standpoint and bargaining position against the UK... but still it came as a huge surprise to me he involved himself.

I think Trump needs to learn that he is the POTUS and that he operates in the international spectrum. He isn't some kind of bored dad watching the news and commenting whatever bullshit he wants on things he's not involved in...

Not bad per se, but kinda fucked if you're the president of any country.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on July 13, 2018, 04:24:47 pm
Lol Trump massively helped the EU's standpoint and bargaining position against the UK... but still it came as a huge surprise to me he involved himself.

Has he? To me the opposite is true. Trump's arguing the UK should drop EU regulatory conformity and pivot to America (there are only three regulatory superpowers: China, EU and US, and every country has to choose one to broadly conform to). US officials will be holding out sweeteners behind the scenes to make that happen, and if it did that'd be quite a coup for Washington. It's unlikely to happen in the next few years, but after May leaves office? Trump is signalling that it's going to be a significant American foreign policy aim. Brussels will have to go out of its way to keep Britain within its regulatory sphere.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on July 13, 2018, 04:44:27 pm
Surely the most natural course is for Britain to remain closer with the EU since it’s our closest and largest trading partner? It would be massive shift for all of that trade to go to the USA.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on July 13, 2018, 05:15:31 pm
Surely the most natural course is for Britain to remain closer with the EU since it’s our closest and largest trading partner? It would be massive shift for all of that trade to go to the USA.

General trend for EU-UK trade is downward and long-term growth prospects for the EU27 are quite poor (terrible demographics, weak investment in tech, Euro, etc). If we always looked at it as a case of current largest trade partner then we wouldn't have even joined the EEC in 1973.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on July 13, 2018, 05:27:18 pm
We know from the polls conducted in 2016 after the EU referendum that the vast majority of "Brexiteers" voted in order to take back the power of regulation and legislation from EU bureaucrats that nobody voted for. May's recent "Chequer's agreement" involves leaving a lot Luxembourg's jurisdiction alone, hence not remaining true to the intention of the majority of voters in 2016. I believe that's the main cause of a lot of revolt at the minute, though I'm not too sure myself since it's all a bit of a clusterf*ck.

Thoughts on Jeremy Hunt as Foreign Minister? I dare say he may be one of the most despised politicians of our time. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on July 13, 2018, 05:33:32 pm
What’s the likelihood that trade to the US increases to the extent that it replaces the majority of our EU trade? Because right now we trade more with them than with the rest of the world combined (exports and imports). I’m no trade expert but what are the odds of a seismic shift in where we export our goods to? Genuinely curious btw not trying to disagree

The revolts are definitely because of her strategy. It seems to be very unpopular with the majority of Brexit voters which isn’t good for her position obviously. Jeremy Hunt is a bit of a cunt as they say.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on July 13, 2018, 05:59:56 pm
What’s the likelihood that trade to the US increases to the extent that it replaces the majority of our EU trade? Because right now we trade more with them than with the rest of the world combined (exports and imports). I’m no trade expert but what are the odds of a seismic shift in where we export our goods to? Genuinely curious btw not trying to disagree

Hard to do... I mean... following the logic of the free market, if a drastic increase of trade with the US would be possible and would mean vastly more income, wouldn't it have happened?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on July 13, 2018, 06:00:17 pm
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Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on July 13, 2018, 06:01:58 pm
What’s the likelihood that trade to the US increases to the extent that it replaces the majority of our EU trade? Because right now we trade more with them than with the rest of the world combined (exports and imports). I’m no trade expert but what are the odds of a seismic shift in where we export our goods to? Genuinely curious btw not trying to disagree

Hard to do... I mean... following the logic of the free market, if a drastic increase of trade with the US would be possible and would mean vastly more income, wouldn't it have happened?
I think it will be very dependent on if we end up with tariff free trade with the EU
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on July 13, 2018, 06:22:36 pm
What’s the likelihood that trade to the US increases to the extent that it replaces the majority of our EU trade? Because right now we trade more with them than with the rest of the world combined (exports and imports). I’m no trade expert but what are the odds of a seismic shift in where we export our goods to? Genuinely curious btw not trying to disagree

We do not trade with the EU more than the rest of the world combined, and that hasn't been the case since 2008. Our EU exports, as a percentage of overall exports, peaked in 1990 and have been in a downward trend since:

Spoiler
(https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.lse.ac.uk%2Fpoliticsandpolicy%2Ffiles%2F2015%2F04%2FUK_EU_TradeShare.jpg&hash=f3ac8124d68c21b7f71a7cd44153564217115e89)
[close]
This has occurred at the same time as several big waves of EU expansion, you can see that second peak for 2004 when Poland etc joined, so you would have expected an overall increase (though China opened up at the same time so that explains part, but not all, of the decrease).

Seismic shifts in British trade have occurred, particularly as a result of EU membership.
-In 1960 the UK's largest export markets in order of size were USA, Australia, Canada, Germany and South Africa. The Commonwealth accounted for around a third of our exports and imports.
-In 2011 it was Germany, USA, Netherlands, France and Switzerland. The Commonwealth accounted for only around 10% of UK imports and exports.

I think it will be very dependent on if we end up with tariff free trade with the EU

Tariffs are a minor issue in modern trade, although granted they've become a lot more significant under Trump. It's mostly about regulation and trade infrastructure these days. For instance Liberia may have tariff free trade with the EU as a result of 'Everything But Arms' but if they can't prove they conform to EU standards and SPS regulations, obtain export licenses and associated paperwork, ensure the non-contamination of supply chains and cut out food fraud, get the product to market in the first place (African roads and ports are notoriously terrible), afford port fees and shipping costs etc then the removal of a tariff doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on July 15, 2018, 01:40:51 am
Must have added my numbers up wrong.So do you think the USA will eventually become our largest trade partner?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on July 15, 2018, 03:26:10 am
Must have added my numbers up wrong.So do you think the USA will eventually become our largest trade partner?

If you count the EU as individual countries rather than as one entity then it is already, but it's more accurate not to do that since the EU is a distinct economic area. I honestly have no idea but it could easily turn out that way, even had we voted 'Remain'. EU demographics are awful, especially in Germany which is by far our largest EU trade partner. By 2060 there will be roughly 10 million fewer Germans than in 2015-who's going to buy our stuff? Who's going to make the stuff that we buy from them?

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on July 15, 2018, 07:10:48 pm
Must have added my numbers up wrong.So do you think the USA will eventually become our largest trade partner?

If you count the EU as individual countries rather than as one entity then it is already, but it's more accurate not to do that since the EU is a distinct economic area. I honestly have no idea but it could easily turn out that way, even had we voted 'Remain'. EU demographics are awful, especially in Germany which is by far our largest EU trade partner. By 2060 there will be roughly 10 million fewer Germans than in 2015-who's going to buy our stuff? Who's going to make the stuff that we buy from them?
Turks lol?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on July 22, 2018, 12:07:29 am
Ecuador is apparently about to withdraw asylum from Julian Assange...
https://theintercept.com/2018/07/21/ecuador-will-imminently-withdraw-asylum-for-julian-assange-and-hand-him-over-to-the-uk-what-comes-next/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on July 22, 2018, 11:11:05 pm
I do hope you aren't a frequent reader of the The Intercept  ;)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on July 23, 2018, 11:52:12 am
It is not any less true though, more news outlets report on this.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on July 23, 2018, 03:23:43 pm
I was just poking fun, I actually thought the linked article was quite well written and factual.

That said, there are some god-awful editors for this particular outlet. See this (https://theintercept.com/2018/06/26/the-white-supremacy-court-upholds-the-muslim-ban/) for example - one of many articles on the front page that are arguably more skewed than what is coming out of CNN. The comment section has been closed, of course.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on July 23, 2018, 09:48:55 pm
I do hope you aren't a frequent reader of the The Intercept  ;)

Lol no, it was just the first place to report it. I mainly get my daily news from the BBC and CBC, and in-depth analysis from blogs.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on July 25, 2018, 09:24:34 pm
~10 Catholic blokes seem to cause quite the stir in the Netherlands with their presence. I love to see civil discussion where one side wears masks and attack the others. Was a good meme
https://youtu.be/47gQDbTaWqA
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on July 26, 2018, 01:45:52 pm
That's actually in my city, just in front of the train station. Even see a few guys I actually know personally, and the guy I voted for last two elections.

'Gezin in gevaar' is such a meme. "I'm confronted with people being different every day!!11  :'( :'( :'( ". The whole protest was against Suitsupply because they made an advertisment with a gay couple. So what do they want? Gay people to become invisible? It's retarded, and truly nobody cares. I wouldn't call 30 people on a saturdayafternoon a 'stir'.


I actually found their written report

Quote
Roughly 150 pro-homosexual counter-demonstrators, many of them masked,

Hahaha 150. Never. Never ever. Even if you count all the press, police, protesters and counterprotesters, there weren't more then aprox. 50.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on July 26, 2018, 07:34:01 pm
That's actually in my city, just in front of the train station. Even see a few guys I actually know personally, and the guy I voted for last two elections.

'Gezin in gevaar' is such a meme. "I'm confronted with people being different every day!!11  :'( :'( :'( ". The whole protest was against Suitsupply because they made an advertisment with a gay couple. So what do they want? Gay people to become invisible? It's retarded, and truly nobody cares. I wouldn't call 30 people on a saturdayafternoon a 'stir'.


I actually found their written report

Quote
Roughly 150 pro-homosexual counter-demonstrators, many of them masked,

Hahaha 150. Never. Never ever. Even if you count all the press, police, protesters and counterprotesters, there weren't more then aprox. 50.
Protesting the gay advertisement was a bit much but masked half-men attacking you is probably worse in a country built on DEMOCRACY. I  think it sets a bad model for Antifa to be a worldwide thing considering what they do and the values they are walking all over.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on July 26, 2018, 11:57:29 pm
Quote
in a country built on DEMOCRACY

Our country was built on tax avoidance and the freedom to force everyone to believe in a very specific branch of Protestantism. The whole democracy thing didn't come in until...well, never.

I have trouble feeling any form of pity for people whose goal in life is to strip me of my rights so that they can feel better about themselves. I have this argument with Christians a lot.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on July 27, 2018, 12:08:14 am
Quote
in a country built on DEMOCRACY

Our country was built on tax avoidance and the freedom to force everyone to believe in a very specific branch of Protestantism.

Actually it was built on the sea.

(double entendre, gettit?)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on July 27, 2018, 04:18:24 pm
Quote
in a country built on DEMOCRACY

Our country was built on tax avoidance and the freedom to force everyone to believe in a very specific branch of Protestantism. The whole democracy thing didn't come in until...well, never.

I have trouble feeling any form of pity for people whose goal in life is to strip me of my rights so that they can feel better about themselves. I have this argument with Christians a lot.
where did it come?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on July 28, 2018, 12:32:29 am
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/16375599.blackburn-teen-dubbed-uks-youngest-terrorist-in-lifetime-anonymity-bid/?ref=mc&lp=10

Someone call the boys over at Guinness, we've got another one for the book.

~10 Catholic blokes seem to cause quite the stir in the Netherlands with their presence. I love to see civil discussion where one side wears masks and attack the others. Was a good meme

I'd think our current pope is more of a danger to Catholic values than a group of masked Dutch queers. I understand your argument in regards to civil discourse, though.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on July 29, 2018, 04:49:38 pm
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/16375599.blackburn-teen-dubbed-uks-youngest-terrorist-in-lifetime-anonymity-bid/?ref=mc&lp=10

Someone call the boys over at Guinness, we've got another one for the book.

~10 Catholic blokes seem to cause quite the stir in the Netherlands with their presence. I love to see civil discussion where one side wears masks and attack the others. Was a good meme

I'd think our current pope is more of a danger to Catholic values than a group of masked Dutch queers. I understand your argument in regards to civil discourse, though.
What is wrong with current Pope?  Is he following words of Jesus to much instead of made up shit priests came up in middle ages?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on July 29, 2018, 05:07:44 pm
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/16375599.blackburn-teen-dubbed-uks-youngest-terrorist-in-lifetime-anonymity-bid/?ref=mc&lp=10

Someone call the boys over at Guinness, we've got another one for the book.

~10 Catholic blokes seem to cause quite the stir in the Netherlands with their presence. I love to see civil discussion where one side wears masks and attack the others. Was a good meme

I'd think our current pope is more of a danger to Catholic values than a group of masked Dutch queers. I understand your argument in regards to civil discourse, though.
What is wrong with current Pope?  Is he following words of Jesus to much instead of made up shit priests came up in middle ages?
I thought those were the same thing
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on July 30, 2018, 01:50:04 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLT9JOE64WQ&t=250

I'd recommend watching from 4:10 onwards, interesting stuff indeed :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on July 30, 2018, 02:29:49 am
Current pope is garbo
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 01, 2018, 05:00:19 pm
Tommy Robinson has been granted bail. "At the Court of Appeal, Lord Chief Justice Lord Burnett ruled the case be reheard as there had been technical flaws by the judge who jailed him."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-45029755

Safe to say I didn't see this coming.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 01, 2018, 07:14:02 pm
So you're free to 3d print guns in the US again.. yay?
"Realistically" speaking as the technology gets better, soon you could probably pass a metal detector and shoot up an airport (or hijack a plane) before your weapon breaks.
Obviously you'd be limited in the size of the gun you can use since I don't think it could pass the x-ray but still.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Nero_ on August 01, 2018, 07:25:19 pm
 ???
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 01, 2018, 07:28:56 pm
You can already print a complete plastic gun but it generally brakes after one shot or a few shots.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on August 01, 2018, 08:26:16 pm
I mean what Sen. Richard Blumenthal said on the 3-D printed guns is idiotic and delusional.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 01, 2018, 09:05:52 pm
I mean yeah if you want to shoot up a school or theatre it's much easier to go through legal channels than build your own shitty plastic gun at home.
But for an airport? Oh boy.

Also plastic guns could become a problem in other countries but it all dependent on how it develops obviously.
But yeah the big news as of now is it's legal in the US again.

In other news Trump called on Sessions to end the Mueller investigation..

Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjTsqLfUcAAhq0J.jpg:large)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 01, 2018, 09:46:00 pm
He gon' do it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 01, 2018, 10:15:36 pm
I mean yeah if you want to shoot up a school or theatre it's much easier to go through legal channels than build your own shitty plastic gun at home.
But for an airport? Oh boy.

Also plastic guns could become a problem in other countries but it all dependent on how it develops obviously.
But yeah the big news as of now is it's legal in the US again.

Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab9DM23onBk
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 03, 2018, 12:51:26 pm
So despite their profits rising, Amazon have managed to reduce their tax bill by increasing the amount that they pay their employees in shares. Is it time for the government to get tough on these companies?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 03, 2018, 02:41:56 pm
With Trump and Republicans in power? Nice meme dude.
Have there been any closures of tax loopholes like Trump promised or no?
I'd assume no.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on August 03, 2018, 03:10:24 pm
@furrnox but the guns aren't completely plastic and even if they were, you still have detectable metal ammo.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 03, 2018, 03:18:24 pm
It is possible to make a completely 3d printed plastic gun but it's shit and is probably more dangerous for the maker/user than the general public, you're right about the ammo though but it's probably easier to sneak some ammo through than an actual gun.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 03, 2018, 04:16:21 pm
With Trump and Republicans in power? Nice meme dude.
Have there been any closures of tax loopholes like Trump promised or no?
I'd assume no.
I mean I was talking about in the UK but it's the same kind of deal here tbh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 03, 2018, 05:18:31 pm
With Trump and Republicans in power? Nice meme dude.
Have there been any closures of tax loopholes like Trump promised or no?
I'd assume no.
I mean I was talking about in the UK but it's the same kind of deal here tbh

To answer your question it's extremely difficult as all these tax loopholes are legal. Close one down and another ten open. Oh and all the best tax lawyers work in the City rather than for HMRC so Amazon, Apple, Google etc will outgun any government that comes after them. You could have a Sales Tax but that'd probably cause a lot of unintended consequences...

The problem goes beyond tax to their behaviour in general (anti-monopoly laws and the like). I don't know what the answer is but bashing tech firms with high regulation and fines is probably the wrong approach. There's a reason the EU has so few big tech companies (and will have even fewer post-Brexit).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 03, 2018, 05:23:20 pm
I don't know what they'd have to do about it. It just sucks that everybody else seems to manage to pay the right amount of tax except these huge companies who get away with it. I still remember my mum mentioning how the government took an extra few hundred pounds in tax just before Christmas and it took them until the new year to refund it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 05, 2018, 01:15:50 pm
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/16375599.blackburn-teen-dubbed-uks-youngest-terrorist-in-lifetime-anonymity-bid/?ref=mc&lp=10

Someone call the boys over at Guinness, we've got another one for the book.

~10 Catholic blokes seem to cause quite the stir in the Netherlands with their presence. I love to see civil discussion where one side wears masks and attack the others. Was a good meme

I'd think our current pope is more of a danger to Catholic values than a group of masked Dutch queers. I understand your argument in regards to civil discourse, though.
What is wrong with current Pope?  Is he following words of Jesus to much instead of made up shit priests came up in middle ages?
I thought those were the same thing
It is not. Jesus never said anything against homosexuals rather you could argue he said it is equally respectful way of living. Or anything against contraception really. And many other things.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 05, 2018, 01:31:00 pm
A joke mcpero. A joke.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 05, 2018, 01:37:57 pm
A joke mcpero. A joke.
No memes allowed okay?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 05, 2018, 02:11:36 pm
A joke mcpero. A joke.
No memes allowed okay?
sozzles
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 07, 2018, 04:35:29 am
Rest in peace, Alex Jones! Weird that almost every social media platform would ban him on the same day 🤔 And this comes just days after this hilarious "coincidence" right here in the UK:

(https://news.images.itv.com/image/file/1597516/stream_img.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 07, 2018, 04:38:17 am
Funnily enough, the ban has reportedly had nothing to do with Jones' tendency to post fakes news and conspiracy theories on his platforms.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 07, 2018, 01:15:22 pm
Yeah that was really creepy how they all banned him at the same time. I don't like Alex Jones at all but the last thing you want is communication platforms ganging up and coordinating with one another in a monopolised manner.

Also come on Gordo, they all agreed to publish the same front page to protest Corbyn's antisemitism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 07, 2018, 03:42:41 pm
The whole Corbyn anti-semitism case would be stronger if they didn't also use his or Labour's criticism of Israel as being anti-semitic.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 07, 2018, 04:42:38 pm
I don't think that Corbyn himself is anti-Semitic but I do think that he hasn't done enough to purge discrimination from within the party. That's the main criticism I have of his time as leader.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 07, 2018, 04:44:50 pm
Also come on Gordo, they all agreed to publish the same front page to protest Corbyn's antisemitism.

Sorry but it's still hilarious; in a country where Jewish conspiracy theories are being propagated by both neo-Nazis and the majority of Muslims, our main "independent" Jewish media thought it was a good idea to state boldly that they are "united!" and collude with one another. Not the smartest move, in my humble opinion.

The whole Corbyn anti-semitism case would be stronger if they didn't also use his or Labour's criticism of Israel as being anti-semitic.

I have no love for Corbyn (far from it), but the claims being thrown at him are absolutely atrocious. Jeremy Corbyn and Labour do not pose an "existential threat to Jewish life", nor are we witnessing the repeat of 1939.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 07, 2018, 07:59:40 pm
The whole Corbyn anti-semitism case would be stronger if they didn't also use his or Labour's criticism of Israel as being anti-semitic.

Most of his criticism of Israel is just standard, boilerplate lines from the pro-Palestine movement, but there's numerous instances of his criticism of Israel being anti-semitic (e.g. when he concocts conspiracy theories about Israel and blames it for conducting false flag terrorist attacks in neighbouring Islamic countries).


I don't think that Corbyn himself is anti-Semitic but I do think that he hasn't done enough to purge discrimination from within the party. That's the main criticism I have of his time as leader.

I used to think he was just an idiot who liked to join protests, but he's used the 'I'm just thick' excuse too often for it to be true.
-Supporting an antisemtic mural? Claims he didn't bother looking at it closely enough.
-Appears on platforms with Holocaust deniers? Claims he didn't research these people before agreeing to speak alongside them
-Inviting antisemites for tea in Parliament? Says he wasn't aware of their views or was simply 'promoting a dialogue' (he's never invited anyone from the pro-Israel side for tea in Parliament, so this 'dialogue' is with his own side...)
-Joins antisemitic Facebook groups? Claims he didn't look closely enough at the content
-His association as a paid presenter with the antisemitic media group Press TV? Claims ignorance

What probably did it for me was his weird obsession with 'Holocaust Memorial Day'. He once called for the word 'Holocaust' to be removed from Holocaust Memorial Day...on Holocaust Memorial Day itself. In a different year on Holocaust Memorial Day he hosted an event that compared Israel to Nazi Germany.

Essentially I'm done giving Corbyn the benefit of the doubt. It's just too much smoke for there to not be fire.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 08, 2018, 11:49:50 pm
So is it time to talk about the extreme heat wave this year yet and how fucked we are?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Archduke Sven on August 09, 2018, 03:36:35 am
So is it time to talk about the extreme heat wave this year yet and how fucked we are?

how does this mean we're fucked
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 09, 2018, 09:05:19 am
So is it time to talk about the extreme heat wave this year yet and how fucked we are?

how does this mean we're fucked
Global warming isnt human caused right?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on August 09, 2018, 10:50:01 am
So is it time to talk about the extreme heat wave this year yet and how fucked we are?

how does this mean we're fucked
Global warming isnt human caused right?

Alien caused
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 09, 2018, 01:26:21 pm
So is it time to talk about the extreme heat wave this year yet and how fucked we are?

how does this mean we're fucked
Global warming isnt human caused right?

Alien caused
No its just random u kno
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 09, 2018, 03:14:53 pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2018/07/11/approved-by-donald-trump-asbestos-sold-by-russian-company-is-branded-with-the-presidents-face/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e4d668f4a767

"But Trump has long expressed skepticism about its potential health effects after it is applied. In his 1997 book, “The Art of the Comeback,” he wrote that he believed that anti-asbestos efforts were “led by the mob."

"Asbest, named for its chief product, was once known as “the dying city” because of elevated rates of lung cancer and other diseases."
Nice.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 09, 2018, 05:32:38 pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2018/07/11/approved-by-donald-trump-asbestos-sold-by-russian-company-is-branded-with-the-presidents-face/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e4d668f4a767

"But Trump has long expressed skepticism about its potential health effects after it is applied. In his 1997 book, “The Art of the Comeback,” he wrote that he believed that anti-asbestos efforts were “led by the mob."

"Asbest, named for its chief product, was once known as “the dying city” because of elevated rates of lung cancer and other diseases."
Nice.

Trump is actually right on that.

Asbestos lawsuits in the late 80s/90s/2000s were probably the biggest scandal in US legal history and bankrupted loads of small and medium sized insurance firms. The claims were widely exaggerated, e.g. that 'one fibre could kill', deliberately conflating different types of asbestos, etc. Essentially the lawyers hoped that judges, with little scientific knowledge, would be swayed into awarding huge sums to their clients (of which they'd collect a big percentage).

Lots of lawyers jumped on the bandwagon and you had dodgy doctors who were taking backhanders from the lawyers in return for saying the right thing in court when testifying. One doctor diagnosed over 50,000 individual asbestos claims alone and was paid $10,000 a day to conduct the screenings by a handful of legal firms. Courts were even awarding huge sums to people simply on the basis of *possible* asbestos exposure (i.e. perfectly healthy people were being awarded $millions). It ended up costing the US economy something like $150-200 billion dollars.

'Asbestos litigation has come to consist, mainly, of non-sick people...claiming compensation for non-existent injuries, often testifying according to prepared scripts with perjurious contents, and often supported by specious medical evidence...it is a massively fraudulent enterprise that can rightly take its place among the pantheon of great American swindles'-Prof. Lester Brickman
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 09, 2018, 05:34:46 pm
Sure. That still does not make it a safe.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 09, 2018, 06:23:13 pm
Sure. That still does not make it a safe.

Depends what type of asbestos you're talking about (asbestos is a general term) and in what form it's in (e.g. asbestos cement, asbestos spray, asbestos wool etc). White asbestos cement for example is quite safe.

Trump's point was less to do with safety and more to do with the US asbestos compensation scandal of the 1990s.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on August 09, 2018, 11:47:36 pm
Time to enlist!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuofZZHEAT8
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 10, 2018, 12:30:16 pm
Gotta keep Space safe for our kids to play in peace.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on August 10, 2018, 02:29:37 pm
Who is going to pay for the space wall when we build it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Voluble123 on August 10, 2018, 05:27:59 pm
ooohhhh who is down to make a religious border wall that would be gr8
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 10, 2018, 07:05:49 pm
Sure. That still does not make it a safe.

Depends what type of asbestos you're talking about (asbestos is a general term) and in what form it's in (e.g. asbestos cement, asbestos spray, asbestos wool etc). White asbestos cement for example is quite safe.

Trump's point was less to do with safety and more to do with the US asbestos compensation scandal of the 1990s.


That's debateable.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 10, 2018, 08:27:25 pm
Unlike other forms of asbestos the UK Govt advises white asbestos cement can be left alone, including on public buildings like schools, and there is no obligation to remove it. Unlike other asbestos products you also don't need to be a licensed contractor to remove it. 

It was the last asbestos product to be banned in the UK (1999), and even then it was on the basis of bad publicity rather than scientific advice (the general public was scared shitless by the word 'asbestos').

As I said, it's quite safe. The release of fibres from it is extremely low (even when broken) and within safety limits.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on August 10, 2018, 11:02:20 pm
How hard is it to get a US citizenship so I can join the US Space Force ODST?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 10, 2018, 11:56:28 pm
How hard is it to get a US citizenship so I can join the US Space Force ODST?
Easy if you're in Trump''s extended family
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 11, 2018, 12:05:59 am
How hard is it to get a US citizenship so I can join the US Space Force ODST?
Easy if you're in Trump''s extended family

Or be the family member of any other US citizen...?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2018, 12:27:40 am
How hard is it to get a US citizenship so I can join the US Space Force ODST?
Easy if you're in Trump''s extended family

Or be the family member of any other US citizen...?
Which is something Trump has spoken against. Doesn't stop him from helping his own family out though does it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on August 11, 2018, 01:28:21 am
i help my own family too
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Archduke Sven on August 11, 2018, 04:00:13 am
So is it time to talk about the extreme heat wave this year yet and how fucked we are?

how does this mean we're fucked
Global warming isnt human caused right?

you gon be dead af before it does anythin to you
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 11, 2018, 08:40:14 am
So is it time to talk about the extreme heat wave this year yet and how fucked we are?

how does this mean we're fucked
Global warming isnt human caused right?

you gon be dead af before it does anythin to you
Tell me that when you die of stroke because of heat.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Ted on August 11, 2018, 10:18:28 am
(https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38894238_1210191105790073_3481423648877707264_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=53ccfe3ae5707e33ec613bff0f7b1d3b&oe=5C0F8313)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2018, 10:35:37 am
yeah that came out a while ago, it's pretty stupid  ;D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Archduke Sven on August 11, 2018, 11:05:33 am
So is it time to talk about the extreme heat wave this year yet and how fucked we are?

how does this mean we're fucked
Global warming isnt human caused right?

you gon be dead af before it does anythin to you
Tell me that when you die of stroke because of heat.

i'm not white i don't die from above average heat amigo

only thing that gonna happen is arctic animals gonna die and i literally couldn't give two shits about polar bears and seals
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2018, 11:10:51 am
So is it time to talk about the extreme heat wave this year yet and how fucked we are?

how does this mean we're fucked
Global warming isnt human caused right?

you gon be dead af before it does anythin to you
Tell me that when you die of stroke because of heat.

i'm not white i don't die from above average heat amigo

only thing that gonna happen is arctic animals gonna die and i literally couldn't give two shits about polar bears and seals
That's the short-term mind-set that got humanity into this issue in the first place.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Archduke Sven on August 11, 2018, 11:14:44 am
Spoiler
So is it time to talk about the extreme heat wave this year yet and how fucked we are?

how does this mean we're fucked
Global warming isnt human caused right?

you gon be dead af before it does anythin to you
Tell me that when you die of stroke because of heat.

i'm not white i don't die from above average heat amigo

only thing that gonna happen is arctic animals gonna die and i literally couldn't give two shits about polar bears and seals
[close]
That's the short-term mind-set that got humanity into this issue in the first place.

yup aint that a bitch too bad most people give as little of a shit huh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2018, 11:52:31 am
Spoiler
So is it time to talk about the extreme heat wave this year yet and how fucked we are?


how does this mean we're fucked
Global warming isnt human caused right?

you gon be dead af before it does anythin to you
Tell me that when you die of stroke because of heat.

i'm not white i don't die from above average heat amigo

only thing that gonna happen is arctic animals gonna die and i literally couldn't give two shits about polar bears and seals
[close]
That's the short-term mind-set that got humanity into this issue in the first place.

yup aint that a bitch too bad most people give as little of a shit huh
Doesn't make you right. I'm sure your future family will thank you for ruining their planet.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 11, 2018, 12:16:46 pm
Spoiler
So is it time to talk about the extreme heat wave this year yet and how fucked we are?

how does this mean we're fucked
Global warming isnt human caused right?

you gon be dead af before it does anythin to you
Tell me that when you die of stroke because of heat.

i'm not white i don't die from above average heat amigo

only thing that gonna happen is arctic animals gonna die and i literally couldn't give two shits about polar bears and seals
[close]
That's the short-term mind-set that got humanity into this issue in the first place.

yup aint that a bitch too bad most people give as little of a shit huh
If ice melts a lot of cities will ne flooded. A lot of fertile land will be destroyed.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 11, 2018, 02:43:17 pm
(https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38894238_1210191105790073_3481423648877707264_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&oh=53ccfe3ae5707e33ec613bff0f7b1d3b&oe=5C0F8313)

Yeah that's very stupid...for the EU.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 11, 2018, 02:48:24 pm
That's not the point. Regardless or not if it's a good decision, it shows Brexiteers being angry about something they specifically wanted.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2018, 03:05:11 pm
Exactly. It's also worth noting that the UK already charges VISA fees for other countries. I'm sure that will be applied to EU countries post-Brexit.
According to this page, a standard visitor VISA to the UK from the US costs £93
https://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa

It's another example of Brexit voters wanting it both ways when it suits them. They don't want freedom of movement from other EU countries into the UK but demand it for British citizens. Utter bollocks.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Gi on August 11, 2018, 03:57:39 pm
wtf brexit means I have to pay £6 extra to go to shagaluf???

new referendum please, my fellow dirt poor brexiteers won't be able to afford to go on holiday anymore!!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 11, 2018, 04:16:42 pm
So how much time is left until a deal must have been signed in time for the parliaments to approve it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2018, 05:07:12 pm
So how much time is left until a deal must have been signed in time for the parliaments to approve it?
I don't know much about parliament schedule but you would think that, due to the importance of Brexit negotiations, the house would be ready to vote pretty quickly after the deal is placed before them. With that in mind, it may go to the wire.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 11, 2018, 05:13:26 pm
It's nothing to do with free movement, it's about the EU deciding to charge tourists. The US does not have free movement with the UK yet Americans can come here for tourism purposes Visa free for up to 6 months.

If Brussels wants to charge UK tourists then that's up to them. The real question is how this will work re: the Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland. If Brits travelling from NI to Dublin have to pay £6 then Sinn Fein will throw a tantrum and EU politicians can probably expect a visit from the IRA. Make sure you check under your cars lads..

So how much time is left until a deal must have been signed in time for the parliaments to approve it?

Do you mean the withdrawal agreement or the trade deal?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2018, 05:18:50 pm
It's nothing to do with free movement, it's about the EU deciding to charge tourists. The US does not have free movement with the UK yet Americans can come here for tourism purposes Visa free for up to 6 months.

If Brussels wants to charge UK tourists then that's up to them. The real question is how this will work re: the Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland. If Brits travelling from NI to Dublin have to pay £6 then Sinn Fein will throw a tantrum and EU politicians can probably expect a visit from the IRA. Make sure you check under your cars lads..

So how much time is left until a deal must have been signed in time for the parliaments to approve it?

Do you mean the withdrawal agreement or the trade deal?
£6 is nothing for entry to a country. It's another example of people getting fussed over something which is their own making. You lose privileges such as free entry when you voted to leave the EU. Besides, if we're all going to be better off after Brexit as you lot say then surely £6 is worth that cost, right?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 11, 2018, 06:01:00 pm
Last I checked it was camp Remain arguing against Brexit in order to protect their holidays. You'd be well versed in that pathetic argument had any of you watched the BBC's public debates or checked Twitter during the referendum.

We even got a small taste of it right here on the forums a month or two ago:

Spoiler
I sure hate using the same currency everywhere, being able to travel around freely, cheap flights, being able to expect the same laws and food standards anywhere in Europe. It really sucks.
I wish it would take me 4hours just to cross the Dutch border, like when I was young. Man, it was so much fun going to France, being checked at every border, taking hours just to spend a day at the sea in Holland, then having to convert my money with a crappy exchange rate, just to buy some icecream. SO MUCH FUN.
I also really hate going to countries like Malta and seeing all those EU projects popping up. All those restored Forts and Castles are just so ugly... It is also retarded that I can easily use my credit card anywhere in Europe. Or that I do not have to pay VAT when buying stuff from other European countries with my company account. It just sucks. Not being taxated twice also fucking sucks, like seriously. I would love to pay income tax twice and pay additional VAT on it. I hate doing buisness in other countries, it is just to easy.

Personally, I would be so much better off without the EU, I do not profit from the EU at all!
[close]

Yes, make it harder for tourists to travel to countries whose economy is completely reliant on tourism; that'll teach those filthy Brexiteers! It sure is unlike the EU to put politics above the welfare of its member states now, isn't it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2018, 06:02:10 pm
£6 is hardly going to stop people travelling
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 11, 2018, 06:10:12 pm
Harder =/= stop
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 11, 2018, 06:11:30 pm
It's nothing to do with free movement, it's about the EU deciding to charge tourists. The US does not have free movement with the UK yet Americans can come here for tourism purposes Visa free for up to 6 months.

If Brussels wants to charge UK tourists then that's up to them. The real question is how this will work re: the Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland. If Brits travelling from NI to Dublin have to pay £6 then Sinn Fein will throw a tantrum and EU politicians can probably expect a visit from the IRA. Make sure you check under your cars lads..

So how much time is left until a deal must have been signed in time for the parliaments to approve it?

Do you mean the withdrawal agreement or the trade deal?
£6 is nothing for entry to a country. It's another example of people getting fussed over something which is their own making. You lose privileges such as free entry when you voted to leave the EU. Besides, if we're all going to be better off after Brexit as you lot say then surely £6 is worth that cost, right?

'£6 is nothing'

It's not the money but the principle behind it. I guess it's bad PR for the EU tourism industry but this was not why I said it was stupid. It's more about how it's going to work within the British Isles where there's a Common Travel Area. Either Ireland opts out or the UK is made exempt. Given the EU's sudden fascination with respecting the Good Friday Agreement I'm sure they'll take one of those options (and if not then Juncker will have to run the risk of being blown up by the IRA).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2018, 06:29:08 pm
Well that's the difficulty of negotiating to leave when the UK is so heavily tied into the EU. How do you respect past agreements like good friday whilst getting what you want? It kind of feels like the vote was made before anybody actually had any solid plan for the withdrawal. That's just demonstrated by the lack of any deal yet.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 11, 2018, 08:56:43 pm
Well that's the difficulty of negotiating to leave when the UK is so heavily tied into the EU. How do you respect past agreements like good friday whilst getting what you want?

Fun fact: the EU is not and never has been a signatory to the Good Friday Agreement. It's not even an observer to it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 11, 2018, 09:32:16 pm
Well that's the difficulty of negotiating to leave when the UK is so heavily tied into the EU. How do you respect past agreements like good friday whilst getting what you want?

Fun fact: the EU is not and never has been a signatory to the Good Friday Agreement. It's not even an observer to it.
No but it has been signed by Ireland, an EU member state.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 12, 2018, 02:25:36 am
France back at it again being greedy. Little difference between Macron and Le Pen when it comes to economic nationalism. And so much for 'Europe stands with Ireland' haha, I think Varadkar actually believed that at one point which is kinda sad. May should go in front of the cameras and claim she'll fight Ireland's corner over this, it'd be hilarious.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-france-to-veto-re-routed-trade-plan-between-ireland-and-europe-1.3593604
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2018, 10:10:05 am
When France acts in its own interests it's greedy but when Britain does the same it's fine  ???
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 12, 2018, 11:23:58 am
Unlike other forms of asbestos the UK Govt advises white asbestos cement can be left alone, including on public buildings like schools, and there is no obligation to remove it. Unlike other asbestos products you also don't need to be a licensed contractor to remove it. 

It was the last asbestos product to be banned in the UK (1999), and even then it was on the basis of bad publicity rather than scientific advice (the general public was scared shitless by the word 'asbestos').

As I said, it's quite safe. The release of fibres from it is extremely low (even when broken) and within safety limits.

All I've heard is that it's lower risk than other types but still potent enough to warrant debates and have 50 countries banning it.
The World Health Organization have also been pretty outspoken about wanting a worldwide ban on the substance.

But I'm not educated enough to take a strong stance on the subject all I know is it's not good and it can cause cancer if worked with inproperly.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 12, 2018, 12:35:53 pm
When France acts in its own interests it's greedy but when Britain does the same it's fine  ???
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 12, 2018, 02:33:48 pm
When France acts in its own interests it's greedy but when Britain does the same it's fine  ???

When have I ever said that? Of course Britain has always pushed its national interest when it comes to the EU, almost all countries do. The difference is British politicians don't bang on about how 'European' they are, how much they love the EU etc. We've never pretended to be anything like that.

Macron on the other hand styled himself as the ultimate European. He claimed it was his task to build 'more Europe' and push for Eurozone federalism etc. The guy even had 'Ode to Joy' played rather than 'La Marseilles' during his victory rally. Now he's prepared to see the Irish economy take a hit for the sake of a few million euros. Lol.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 12, 2018, 02:38:53 pm
It's about priorities. Of course he wants to further European interests, but not at the expense of those who elected him.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 12, 2018, 03:02:35 pm
Macron is pro-European because it's serves French interest.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 13, 2018, 05:29:23 pm
Now *this* is interesting. CANZUK is actively being discussed by the Canadian Conservatives at their big pre-election convention. If it passes it'll be official party policy and form part of the 2019 manifesto.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkanaKZXoAAzFnM.jpg:large)

Should pass given it's backed by the leadership...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 13, 2018, 05:36:11 pm
Is there anywhere where the points are expanded upon or have they only just outlined them atm? Would be interesting to read.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 13, 2018, 06:35:13 pm
Is there anywhere where the points are expanded upon or have they only just outlined them atm? Would be interesting to read.

I think they're initially outlined in general then delegates go in and debate the detail. Of course they'll have prepared the detailed proposals beforehand to go in with so a lot should get published soon. In 2019 the New Zealand government is publishing its 'Closer Commonwealth Economic Relations (CCER)' proposals, basically CANZUK under a different name, which is basically folding the UK and Canada into the various Trans-Tasman agreements that exist between Australia and NZ (yes, you can have free movement/free trade/residency rights/mutual recognition of standards and qualifications etc without 28 unelected Commissioners dictating things...).

Ironically for all this talk of CANZUK being 'Empire 2.0' it's not actually Britain that's pushing this.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 13, 2018, 06:53:38 pm
Now *this* is interesting. CANZUK is actively being discussed by the Canadian Conservatives at their big pre-election convention. If it passes it'll be official party policy and form part of the 2019 manifesto.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkanaKZXoAAzFnM.jpg:large)

Should pass given it's backed by the leadership...

Conservatives winnig in canada lul? Im surprised they arent banned yet.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 14, 2018, 06:22:33 pm
Looks like the 2019 election might be a close one.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 15, 2018, 05:04:50 am
Fired like a dog
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 16, 2018, 02:50:50 am
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/08/politics/donald-trump-primaries/index.html

Are we tired yet, folks?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on August 16, 2018, 04:16:44 am
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/08/politics/donald-trump-primaries/index.html

Are we tired yet, folks?
Not my president
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 16, 2018, 02:26:43 pm
Yep. I suggest following Ballotpedia's updates on the primaries, they've been saying this for the last few months now. Pro-Trump Republicans are winning primaries and in several hotly contested primaries none of the candidates actually opposed Trump. Meanwhile, Republican primary turn-out is higher then that of the Democrats and that could predict a low turn-out for Democratic voters during the General.

Take the Arizone US Senate seat, for example. It has been rated the most likely Senate Seat to flip during the 2018. McSally, the party-supported candidate and poll-favorite used to be critical of Trump in 2016 but has completely 180-degree-turned, and her two opponents are completely aligned with the Trump administration. They are all running on a pro-Trump/Administration platform, in a very unsafe seat, in a midterm election. Honestly, if the Democrats don't take this seat, they might as well stop trying.

The Democrats are still in a good position to take back the House, but with the Senate is unlikely to flip, the effects of that are really limited. If they fail, you might as well re-name the Republican Party the Trump Party and I'm willing to bet Trump will be almost ensured the Republican nomination for 2020.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 16, 2018, 03:50:41 pm
Good time to be a Republican I guess. There's also a few old Democrat judges on the Supreme Court that Trump will replace so I wouldn't be surprised if Roe vs Wade gets overturned.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 16, 2018, 04:59:35 pm
Good time to be a Republican I guess.

Good time to be a Trump-er. Whether or not that's the same thing as a Republican is to be seen come November.

Quote
There's also a few old Democrat judges on the Supreme Court that Trump will replace so I wouldn't be surprised if Roe vs Wade gets overturned.

Not to mention the conservative judges he's planting down on all courts. The USA is going to feel this one for a long time.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on August 16, 2018, 05:10:51 pm
BUT HOW CAN I HAVE MY 10TH ABORTION NOW 😩😩😩
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 16, 2018, 05:16:37 pm
By killing yourself trying to do it yourself, of course. Like the good old days. Life's sacred people.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 16, 2018, 05:35:45 pm
By killing yourself trying to do it yourself, of course. Like the good old days. Life's sacred people.

No idea about US figures but in Britain the number of deaths from backstreet abortions was in the tens of people per year before it became fully legal. Not sure c.200,000 abortions per year is a price worth paying.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 16, 2018, 06:03:05 pm
But we're not talking about the UK.

Did anyone keep track of the number of illegal abortions and the number of deaths related to those anyway?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 16, 2018, 06:16:20 pm
"In countries where abortion is completely banned or permitted only to save the woman’s life or preserve her physical health, only 1 in 4 abortions were safe; whereas, in countries where abortion is legal on broader grounds, nearly 9 in 10 abortions were done safely. Restricting access to abortions does not reduce the number of abortions." - World Health Organisation

http://www.who.int/news-room/detail/28-09-2017-worldwide-an-estimated-25-million-unsafe-abortions-occur-each-year
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 16, 2018, 06:56:17 pm
But life is sacred.  :'(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Vincenzo on August 16, 2018, 07:04:20 pm
The whole abortion debate is retarted.

But that is any debate where religion is involved.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 16, 2018, 07:05:47 pm
Quote from: Every religious nutt ever
Your rights oppress my freedom of religion reeeee
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on August 16, 2018, 08:19:44 pm
I'm not saying I support pro-life, but I do think it's incredibly stupid to want to brag about getting abortions the way that American Feminists do. I just view them as a sad necessity in an ever changing and constantly shifting world.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 16, 2018, 08:26:19 pm
It's not sad to control your own body and be entitled to your own choices. That's what they're 'bragging' about, even though I very much doubt that group resembles even more then 0.01% of people getting abortions so it's really a moot point anyway.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 16, 2018, 08:30:02 pm
Not to mention the conservative judges he's planting down on all courts. The USA is going to feel this one for a long time.

Don't sound so somber. Perhaps now we'll get less judges challenging presidential executive orders, and less illegal immigrants being able to repeatedly offend before finally being deported. The vast majority of society does not benefit from lenient judges.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 16, 2018, 11:06:06 pm
But we're not talking about the UK.

Did anyone keep track of the number of illegal abortions and the number of deaths related to those anyway?

We're not, but you were making a point about deaths in general. I'm only familiar with UK statistics on the issue and deaths from backstreet abortions were around 30 per year (the number of deaths from *legal* abortions were around 20. Abortion has been legal in the UK since 1929). The figures are reasonably reliable and come from a national programme called 'Confidential Enquiry into Maternal Deaths (CEMD) which has been running UK-wide since 1952.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on August 17, 2018, 05:20:45 am
(https://i.imgur.com/lp7aXm9.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 17, 2018, 09:07:11 am
A bunch of cells is not a baby.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Archduke Sven on August 17, 2018, 10:28:53 am
A bunch of cells is not a baby.

goodluck explaining that to people who still think that the retarded frog amoeba thats been "alive" for 3 weeks is god given and has a soul etc.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 17, 2018, 03:13:09 pm
A bunch of cells is not a baby.

Okay, well please tell us at exactly what week into the pregnancy you think those 'bunch of cells' become human. Also you're falling into the classic trap of dehumanising in order to justify killing, which has been done frequently throughout history (Australian Aboriginals, Jews, Yazidis, etc).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 17, 2018, 03:16:17 pm
Read my post about the WHO study.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 17, 2018, 04:29:08 pm
A bunch of cells is not a baby.

Okay, well please tell us at exactly what week into the pregnancy you think those 'bunch of cells' become human. Also you're falling into the classic trap of dehumanising in order to justify killing, which has been done frequently throughout history (Australian Aboriginals, Jews, Yazidis, etc).

My thoughts exactly. We're talking about a living organism here...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 17, 2018, 04:40:37 pm
Read my post about the WHO study.

What specifically about it?

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 17, 2018, 04:43:40 pm
Read my post about the WHO study.

What specifically about it?
That countries with anti-abortion laws tend to have more unsafe abortions. It also states that these laws do nothing to lower the number of abortions.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 17, 2018, 06:41:09 pm
Read my post about the WHO study.

What specifically about it?
That countries with anti-abortion laws tend to have more unsafe abortions.

Those countries also tend to be highly undeveloped. If you want to be reasonable you'd compare a Western country with restrictive abortion laws, so let's use Ireland as the obvious example. Ireland has consistently had one of the lowest maternal mortality rates *in the world*. Period. They perform far better than the UK and others on that metric.


It also states that these laws do nothing to lower the number of abortions.

Yes and no, it's more about the culture and resulting legal enforcement. For example abortion rates are high in the Middle East because of gender discrimination (female babies are far more likely to be aborted) and anti-abortion laws aren't properly enforced as a result. You can't simply say 'they don't work' without looking at the context.

Loose abortion laws do result in far higher rates of abortion by the way, which is why it's still very high in Eastern Europe. The Communists (by and large) *loved* abortion as a way of destroying the traditional family. In the latter years of the USSR the number of abortions per year was higher than the number of live births.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 17, 2018, 07:09:42 pm
Do you have all your sources ready by the way? I would love to read them.

The WHO says otherwise in regards to numbers of abortions. They claim that restrictive laws don't reduce the number of abortions. They also claim, in a study done alongside the Guttmacher institute and published in The Lancet that "In countries where abortion is completely banned or permitted only to save the woman’s life or preserve her physical health, only 1 in 4 abortions were safe; whereas, in countries where abortion is legal on broader grounds, nearly 9 in 10 abortions were done safely." 45% of all abortions are done unsafely and whilst most of these do occur in developing countries, that would make sense considering Western nations usually have both more lenient abortion laws as well as better access to healthcare.

The following report that I will link is also an interesting read. WHO suggests that it is important to provide proper care for safe abortions (i.e legal and regulated) to prevent risk to many mothers.

It seems that, even in countries with restrictive abortion laws, many abortions do still occur. This includes a great many making trips from Ireland to the UK for abortions. It would therefore make sense that looser laws are applied to safeguard the health of these women since they're going to have the abortion either way.

https://gh.bmj.com/content/3/3/e000692

There is also a piece here which explains ways of preventing unsafe abortions for women. One of those is the introduction of legal abortions. http://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/preventing-unsafe-abortion
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 17, 2018, 08:01:02 pm
Do you have all your sources ready by the way? I would love to read them.

Of course, tell me which ones you want.


WHO needs to compare like for like. You can't compare wealthy, Western states which have the rule of law to some failed state in Africa or the ME. I don't usually take WHO seriously on social/cultural issues given it has become highly politicised by heavy NGO involvement over the years (remember our discussion about passive smoking and WHO ignoring, and in several cases covering up, the evidence).

To claim that restrictive laws don't reduce the number of abortions is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read. Every Western country that legalised abortion has seen massive increases. Are you seriously suggesting that the number of Irish abortions will remain the same post-legalisation (obviously accounting for those that currently take place in other countries and will now be undertaken domestically)?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 17, 2018, 08:25:59 pm
I'm just relaying what the WHO is saying. It's likely that they are anticipating that if a woman really wants an abortion then she'll get it. By making it illegal you're not really doing anything to restrict the process actually happening, but just making it more unsafe.

The state of the country still does not effect if the abortion is unsafe or not, but rather the likelihood that an unsafe procedure will take place. Of course it could be possible that a number of those unsafe abortions were due to the lack of healthcare structure in a developing country but they're still relevant as it still leaves the same neglect of care to women as in a country where there was adequate healthcare but without legal abortion. It simulates non-access to healthy abortion techniques.

You also tend to dismiss WHO contribution but their findings clearly state that women are more at risk when not allowed access to healthy abortion techniques. Thats pretty obvious and when you take into account that illegal abortions happen irrespective of the countries' law then you may as well have it legal to allow you to look after women who might otherwise partake in unsafe procedures. The WHO may or may not have had some issues in the past but you're always very quick to dismiss their work because it goes against your own political views. It seems to fit as a very safe fallback when statistics go against you. "Oh but they're untrustworthy" even if their figures add up and argument makes sense.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 17, 2018, 10:57:02 pm
The WHO may or may not have had some issues in the past but you're always very quick to dismiss their work because it goes against your own political views. It seems to fit as a very safe fallback when statistics go against you. "Oh but they're untrustworthy" even if their figures add up and argument makes sense.

Not at all. For example I hate smoking but I'm still against what WHO did over the passive smoking debate. WHO has been in the pocket of NGOs for a very long time. I suspected it'd be the same for abortion so I've just checked. And whadda you know? WHO is firmly up the arse of the International Planned Parenthood Federation (IPPF).

IPPF is a 'permanent partner' of their sexual and reproductive health division: http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/about_us/hrp/partners/en/
Even their regional divisions have the regional IPPF network as permanent partners (e.g. IPPF Europe Network is a permanent partner of WHO Europe and so on). As you'd expect IPPF is also listed as a major donor to WHO. Oh, and the Director of WHO Reproductive Health & Research also sits on the medical advisory board of IPPF.

Now I don't know about you but based on all that I'm willing to bet that WHO probably has something of a pro-abortion bias.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 17, 2018, 11:03:43 pm
Have you ever considered that the reason they have the IPPF as a permanent partner is because what they do is best for the health of people around the globe? They work with these people because they agree in regards to the topic. That's not a sign of corruption in the slightest. If I donate to a political party, it's because I agree with what they are saying, and the same thing is happening here. You don't have any evidence that WHO is being bribed to change their viewpoint so don't go talking as if you do.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 17, 2018, 11:48:32 pm
Have you ever considered that the reason they have the IPPF as a permanent partner is because what they do is best for the health of people around the globe? They work with these people because they agree in regards to the topic. That's not a sign of corruption in the slightest. If I donate to a political party, it's because I agree with what they are saying, and the same thing is happening here. You don't have any evidence that WHO is being bribed to change their viewpoint so don't go talking as if you do.

WHO is not being bribed, it's simply been taken over institutionally by pressure groups and NGOs. Google 'Long march through the institutions', it's a tried and tested technique. IPPF is a group primarily concerned with extending abortion rights, it has no business being one of six 'permanent partners' (the other 5 being UN agencies plus the World Bank).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 18, 2018, 02:00:21 pm
Have you ever considered that the reason they have the IPPF as a permanent partner is because what they do is best for the health of people around the globe? They work with these people because they agree in regards to the topic. That's not a sign of corruption in the slightest. If I donate to a political party, it's because I agree with what they are saying, and the same thing is happening here. You don't have any evidence that WHO is being bribed to change their viewpoint so don't go talking as if you do.

WHO is not being bribed, it's simply been taken over institutionally by pressure groups and NGOs. Google 'Long march through the institutions', it's a tried and tested technique. IPPF is a group primarily concerned with extending abortion rights, it has no business being one of six 'permanent partners' (the other 5 being UN agencies plus the World Bank).
Except, as I just said, it's entirely probable that the reason the IPPF is allowed to operate closely with WHO is because they agree that extending abortion rights is the correct thing to do in regards to ensuring the wellbeing of women around the globe. You are simply speculating about things which you have no real evidence that they are happening.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 18, 2018, 03:02:36 pm
Have you ever considered that the reason they have the IPPF as a permanent partner is because what they do is best for the health of people around the globe? They work with these people because they agree in regards to the topic. That's not a sign of corruption in the slightest. If I donate to a political party, it's because I agree with what they are saying, and the same thing is happening here. You don't have any evidence that WHO is being bribed to change their viewpoint so don't go talking as if you do.

WHO is not being bribed, it's simply been taken over institutionally by pressure groups and NGOs. Google 'Long march through the institutions', it's a tried and tested technique. IPPF is a group primarily concerned with extending abortion rights, it has no business being one of six 'permanent partners' (the other 5 being UN agencies plus the World Bank).
Except, as I just said, it's entirely probable that the reason the IPPF is allowed to operate closely with WHO is because they agree that extending abortion rights is the correct thing to do in regards to ensuring the wellbeing of women around the globe. You are simply speculating about things which you have no real evidence that they are happening.

Of course WHO agrees that extending abortion rights is the correct thing to do, there's a revolving door between WHO and IPPF. Your comment could apply to any situation, including the US bank bailouts of 2008.

'So what if many US Treasury officials are ex-Goldman/JPMorgan/Citigroup employees? It's entirely probable that the reason Wall Street is allowed to operate closely with the US Treasury is because they agree that extending bank bailouts is the correct thing to do in regards to ensuring the wellbeing of the financial system around the globe. You are simply speculating about things which you have no real evidence that they are happening.'
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 18, 2018, 03:19:24 pm
Yes but the REASON they agree is the thing that you are missing. Because it's the right thing to do, because abortion allows for the safeguarding of women's health, regardless of if you agree with it or not. Abortions will happen either way so you may as well facilitate them happening in a safe environment. It's quite funny how you'll do anything to protect cells that some people don't even consider to be alive yet, but you won't do anything to help women who are in need.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 18, 2018, 04:56:35 pm
Because it's the right thing to do, because abortion allows for the safeguarding of women's health, regardless of if you agree with it or not.

It's not good for the health of the c.200,000 babies who get aborted in the UK per year though is it?


Abortions will happen either way so you may as well facilitate them happening in a safe environment.

Will it? Because the UK didn't have anything close to 200,000 abortions per year pre-1967. Deaths from illegal abortions were around 30 (yes, *30*) per year in the 50s/60s, whilst deaths from legal abortions were around 20 per year. Hardly a national crisis.


It's quite funny how you'll do anything to protect cells that some people don't even consider to be alive yet, but you won't do anything to help women who are in need.

Jesus, we've progressed from 'not actually human' to 'not actually alive'. Can you explain to me how a living cell is not a living thing?

All I want is a return to the 1929 law + the precedent set by the 1938 Bourne case. I think we could all live with that. The 1967 law caused a situation whereby abortion takes place on an industrial scale throughout Britain (over a fifth of pregnancies are aborted) and we've systematically devalued human life, leading to the point where NHS Trusts are burning aborted fetuses to heat hospitals.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 18, 2018, 05:09:28 pm
I mistyped when I put alive, I meant actually being a baby. If you really believe those cells are human life and shouldn't be touched then maybe you also should avoid stepping on any grass so as to not become a murderer. The difference between a cluster of cells and a human life is quite large

Illegal abortions were happening regardless of the law, as we both know. So either way they happen. That's fact. Maybe not as many but still a significant amount.

Just because deaths are low that doesn't mean that risk of complications arent high. A large reason for the low number of deaths will have been the NHS helping women who have been through unsafe abortions. That's demonstrated pretty well by the number of women who have complications in places which don't have good health care. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/20/millions-women-risk-backstreet-abortions/ This article is a good read as it shows that worldwide, many women are still dying from botched abortions and millions suffer complications from the same procedures. It's silly to limit yourself to just the UK if you want to properly have a discussion on illegal abortion risks since we're not the only country that matters.

You clearly give a shit about cells, but not about women who are victims of rape, or incest or cannot afford to raise their children. Then conservatives move on to complaining when these women move onto benefits or have to put their kids into care.

I don't actually believe that the law should be all for abortion no matter what. My viewpoint is that abortions should be legal up until the point where the foetus becomes sentient. The reason that I support abortion is because the majority of abortions happen in the early weeks of pregnancy, when it is simply a bunch of cells and not anything close to resembling an actual baby. I also believe that there should be special exemption from going past the sentient stage for certain conditions such as if the baby would have next to no quality of life or if it has no chance of surviving outside of the womb.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 19, 2018, 12:24:34 am
I mistyped when I put alive, I meant actually being a baby. If you really believe those cells are human life and shouldn't be touched then maybe you also should avoid stepping on any grass so as to not become a murderer. The difference between a cluster of cells and a human life is quite large

That doesn't make sense.


Illegal abortions were happening regardless of the law, as we both know. So either way they happen. That's fact. Maybe not as many but still a significant amount....Just because deaths are low that doesn't mean that risk of complications arent high. A large reason for the low number of deaths will have been the NHS helping women who have been through unsafe abortions.

'Maybe not as many but still a significant amount' doesn't make sense when we're looking at abortion rates that are 100x what they were pre-1967. Sure, some women will die each year due to backstreet abortions. Pre-1967 it accounted for c.30 deaths a year. Those are acceptable losses.


It's silly to limit yourself to just the UK if you want to properly have a discussion on illegal abortion risks since we're not the only country that matters....You clearly give a shit about cells, but not about women who are victims of rape, or incest or cannot afford to raise their children. Then conservatives move on to complaining when these women move onto benefits or have to put their kids into care.

Why? We're discussing UK abortion laws so that is the only country that matters.And I take it you didn't read the part where I said I'm advocating for the pre-1967 abortion laws, which allowed it in the case of rape etc.


My viewpoint is that abortions should be legal up until the point where the foetus becomes sentient.

Which is at what week?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 19, 2018, 11:01:08 am
It does make sense. If you believe a group of cells is sentient life then you should also avoid grass, plants or anything that involves cells really. Otherwise you might be a murderer. It's the same precedent. If you go for the whole human DNA thing then you should avoid cutting your toenails or your hair, since those are also groups of human cells.

You constantly talk in deaths but you completely avoid the fact that not every woman who has complications and is at risk of complications die. You try and limit yourself to the UK because it suits your argument, when it's appropriate to discuss the whole world since it's a case to occurs all over the planet.

The following quotes are from the Guttmacher institute:

• Treatment of complications has also improved with updated guidelines for postabortion care. Yet, complications from unsafe abortions are still common in developing regions where abortion remains highly restricted. Estimates for 2012 indicate that 6.9 million women in these regions (excluding Eastern Asia) were treated for complications from unsafe abortions, corresponding to an annual rate of approximately seven women treated per 1,000 women aged 15–44. However, estimates (based on a 14-country sample) suggest that, on average, 40% of women who experience complications never receive treatment.

• According to recent estimates, at least 8% of maternal deaths worldwide are from unsafe abortion; at least 22,800 women die each year from complications of unsafe abortion.

The only reason you are sticking to the UK, despite the argument being applicable wherever you are, is because you know that the above statistics are a lot higher than the one fallback line of "30 deaths" that you keep going on about.

And, from what I've read, it's somewhere around 20 weeks that a baby becomes "sentient" although that is obviously a very broad term and open to interpretation.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 19, 2018, 03:13:50 pm
I still don't understand your comment that 'If you really believe those cells are human life and shouldn't be touched then maybe you also should avoid stepping on any grass so as to not become a murderer'. Yes I believe a human fetus is human life (what could it be otherwise?), why would that mean I shouldn't step on grass?

And you've clearly lost the argument re: the UK so you're now having to include everywhere else. Lots of people die in the Third World as a result of legal abortions, the problem is inadequate healthcare provision in general. And the vast majority of illegal abortions will be carried out by doctors in hospitals anyway.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 19, 2018, 03:30:02 pm
You don't understand because you can't see how ridiculous your argument is. A clump of cells is not a human baby. That's the point I'm making.

Some people will probably die as a result of legal abortions. But the key to the statistics I've given is the reason for them. The illegal complications are a result of using unsafe procedures and unqualified doctors. That is what happens when you don't have adequate abortion care, the reason for that inadequacy can be either restrictive laws or poor healthcare structure but the result is the same; women don't receive the care that they need because abortions are not properly supported. That's why good and qualified abortion procedures need to be in place, which they are not in many countries where abortion is illegal.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on August 19, 2018, 04:43:50 pm
No brain activity occurs within the fetus till its 5th or 6th week, so aborting it beforehand should be fair game. After however, is where you're gonna need a good reason to (health risks and whatnot).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 19, 2018, 05:10:21 pm
If you are against abortion in first few weeks u should stop mastrubating. You kill billions of potential babies that way.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 19, 2018, 05:13:47 pm
And the vast majority of illegal abortions will be carried out by doctors in hospitals anyway.
Yeah you clearly have no idea what is happening in South America. Most illegal abortions are performed by amateurs looking to make money of young whamen that were so smart.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 19, 2018, 05:22:11 pm
Is a day after pill murder?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Vincenzo on August 19, 2018, 07:05:09 pm
Are you a woman that is pregnant? no? then you should not have an opinion on abortion, it's their business.

Someone here said that some SJW/Feminists are proud of their abortions, I call bullshit on that, perhaps there is some exceptional idiot or something but an abortion is absolute no fun. extremely painfull and hurtfull not mentioning the mental effects on the person(s) involved.

THe whole point of legalised abortion is that there is a safe way for people to make a choice, instead of a bad way.

For instance in the country where I live (Poland) abortion is absolutely forbidden, so hundreds of thousands of woman travel to other countries germany or czech republic to get one, if they have the money, if they don't have the money, especially in bad places then they have to resort to medieval methods, that more often then not are absolutely killing or more often mutilating for life..

People don't take such decisions lightly, but sometimes due to life it is the only option.

Whatever you do in this discussion, don't take religion into the argument, forcing anyones believe on someone else is insane.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 19, 2018, 07:31:47 pm
Are you a woman that is pregnant? no? then you should not have an opinion on abortion, it's their business.

That's a very silly comment. Unless you want to go 'full Canada' and allow a woman to have an abortion at any stage in the pregnancy then we've already accepted that it's not simply their business and there are limits in place.

Whatever you do in this discussion, don't take religion into the argument, forcing anyones believe on someone else is insane.

I'm an atheist but you've already brought religion into this discussion, i.e. the religion of selfism. Abortion in 98% of circumstances is a selfish act and in order to justify it you're duhamanising a human fetus so that it can be killed without it affecting your conscience. Just admit it.

For instance in the country where I live (Poland) abortion is absolutely forbidden, so hundreds of thousands of woman travel to other countries germany or czech republic to get one, if they have the money, if they don't have the money, especially in bad places then they have to resort to medieval methods, that more often then not are absolutely killing or more often mutilating for life..

That's because Polish traditional family values were deliberately attacked and desecrated by the Communists, who quickly implemented easy access to abortion when they seized power. Polish culture is still trying to get back to where it was pre-1945. Leaving aside that 'hundreds of thousands' is a very high estimate (others think as low as 10,000 per year), if they maintain a hardline on abortion I fully expect rates will radically decline to very low levels. Poland is still in an adjustment period.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 19, 2018, 08:46:28 pm
He said nothing about abortion at any point of pregnancy. Thing is it is nice for a woman to ask the father for his opinion but it is completely her choice in the first few weeks of pregnancy. But yes there are limits and its abortion before fetus becomes a proper baby.

How is abortion 98% of the time selfish act? Never thought they don't want to have a baby because the baby would suffer growing up and grow up into a broken human. It is not like we have an issue with overpopulation already better give birth to every mistake. Remember on a certain level we are no different to a rock just a bunch of atoms bonded together, we don't have a soul as much as rock doesn't have it.

By what logic will illegal abortion radically decline? Decline mayne yes but not fast.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on August 20, 2018, 01:17:44 am
Nice conjecture everyone, once again my expectations have been met in full.

If you are against abortion in first few weeks u should stop mastrubating. You kill billions of potential babies that way.

You say that as if masturbation isn't also repugnant.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Piercee on August 20, 2018, 01:21:19 am
Masturbation is degenerate.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 20, 2018, 10:09:21 am
Nice conjecture everyone, once again my expectations have been met in full.

If you are against abortion in first few weeks u should stop mastrubating. You kill billions of potential babies that way.

You say that as if masturbation isn't also repugnant.
Holy shit stop acting like you think you're better than everyone else
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 20, 2018, 02:47:21 pm
Alright, I was away for the weekend, so let me make my argument now.

First of all, the classic argument against abortion is that it is, in fact, murder; the act of killing another human being. Murder is different from killing based on the legal principle that a human is something different from all other life on earth. One can argue that it is wrong to kill the unborn baby (let's call it a baby even if it's just a few cells, wouldn't want to be compared to ISIS again) even if we don't classify it as murder, but then you must object to the taking of all life. Killing is not illegal by law, and if it is, it is because of other reasons than the simple fact the entity is entiteled to life; I can't shoot someone's dog because it is his property, but I can shoot my own. I can't shoot an elephant if it's protected for wildlife preservation reasons, but I can shoot one if I get a permit.

So, if we use the argument that abortion should be illegal because it is murder, that means we are in fact saying the unborn baby or entity is a human being from the moment it is a single cell in the woman's womb. That means that it ought to be protected by law against harm, the same way the law protects all humans. That means that if I were to shoot a woman carrying a baby (again, even if it's a single cell), I'd have to be convicted of a double, not a single murder. But that also means that a mother who endangers her baby by, for example, smoking or drinking alcohol, should be charged with child abuse. None of these things we do. A human being is not a human being in the eyes of the law until it is born. We count age from the day one is born, not the day the cell settles in the womb. If person A and person B are conceived on the same day, but person A is born after eight months and person B after nine, they should legally be considered to be the same age because they started being a human at the exact same time, and the moment they leave the womb should be considered irrelevant.


Yes I believe a human fetus is human life (what could it be otherwise?)

So is it entitled to human legal rights as if it were a born person, yes or no? 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on August 20, 2018, 05:37:20 pm
South Africa ain't lookin so good  :-[
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 20, 2018, 06:23:44 pm
That means that if I were to shoot a woman carrying a baby (again, even if it's a single cell), I'd have to be convicted of a double, not a single murder. But that also means that a mother who endangers her baby by, for example, smoking or drinking alcohol, should be charged with child abuse. None of these things we do. A human being is not a human being in the eyes of the law until it is born.

That depends upon the legal jurisdiction. A number of countries and US States treat the murder of a pregnant woman as double homicide. The UK also has laws on 'child destruction' which can punish people who kill babies in the womb with life sentences but it's really messy. As to child abuse re: drinking/smoking while pregnant it's a grey area. I know a number of US states have debated passing laws on them. I personally would ban smoking while pregnant given the serious dangers involved.

Yes I believe a human fetus is human life (what could it be otherwise?)

So is it entitled to human legal rights as if it were a born person, yes or no? 

In my opinion, yes. That means life sentences for those who cause miscarriages via assault on pregnant women and so on.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on August 20, 2018, 07:04:45 pm
Nice conjecture everyone, once again my expectations have been met in full.

If you are against abortion in first few weeks u should stop mastrubating. You kill billions of potential babies that way.

You say that as if masturbation isn't also repugnant.
Holy shit stop acting like you think you're better than everyone else

I'm not trying to appear better than anyone else. I'm just pointing out that it's something people do for momentary pleasure and I am sure most people would rather have an intimate partner than have to "make do" with... themselves.

But that also means that a mother who endangers her baby by, for example, smoking or drinking alcohol, should be charged with child abuse.

I mean... yeah. The information is pretty available, most everyone should know neither of those things lead to good results when the child is born.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 20, 2018, 07:14:52 pm
Nice conjecture everyone, once again my expectations have been met in full.

If you are against abortion in first few weeks u should stop mastrubating. You kill billions of potential babies that way.

You say that as if masturbation isn't also repugnant.
Holy shit stop acting like you think you're better than everyone else

I'm not trying to appear better than anyone else. I'm just pointing out that it's something people do for momentary pleasure and I am sure most people would rather have an intimate partner than have to "make do" with... themselves.

But that also means that a mother who endangers her baby by, for example, smoking or drinking alcohol, should be charged with child abuse.

I mean... yeah. The information is pretty available, most everyone should know neither of those things lead to good results when the child is born.
I was talking about "Nice conjecture everyone, once again my expectations have been met in full." not your line about people wanking
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on August 20, 2018, 07:21:07 pm
Sorry, I assumed it was what you were talking about because the "nice conjecture everyone" was just a joke comment - sorry. I'll own it though, as I too make arguments from conjecture.

Also to expand on my comment to Duuring, you can actually be charged additional crimes which involve a fetus in the United States, so both of your examples aren't really outlandish to a lot of us, as no doubt they were meant to be.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 20, 2018, 08:15:44 pm
South Africa ain't lookin so good  :-[
Let the Chinese deal with Africa they are doing far better than Europeans and USA did so far.

And for the abortion part

In China there was a tradition that if firstborn child was a girl she would be killed. Philosophy teaches that every community that there was in the world had some basic moral laws that were same all around the world even though they were not connected at all. One of them was to not kill other members of the community. But in example of China killing firsborn girls those girls weren't considered members of the community you can also say they weren't considered human. So reality is society itself determines the truth whether abortion is murder of a child or removal of a few cells. And society must always strive into changing itself to progress for better, so that people are happier, feel better in the society. In the past it made sense that abortion was a murder as it helped with repopulation (speaking of middle ages, new age up untill 19th century). But currently it is far better for society whether you like it or not to accept abortion as simply removal of a few cells as we are looking into overpopulation problems and on personal level I think many women would end up much less happy with not having option of abortion. Of course you have examples when abortion is regreted by the the person and can also lose ability to have a baby after, butbits impossible to prevent every bad thing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 20, 2018, 08:17:15 pm
Nice conjecture everyone, once again my expectations have been met in full.

If you are against abortion in first few weeks u should stop mastrubating. You kill billions of potential babies that way.

You say that as if masturbation isn't also repugnant.
Yeah better tell your child that his dick will fall off is he mastrubates. That will help his mental development.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on August 20, 2018, 08:27:52 pm
I like how you kind of just take things to assumptive extremes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 20, 2018, 11:54:51 pm
Also to expand on my comment to Duuring, you can actually be charged additional crimes which involve a fetus in the United States, so both of your examples aren't really outlandish to a lot of us, as no doubt they were meant to be.

Feticide laws are not in place in all US states and the very fact they exist strenghten the idea that fetuses are not human beings in the eyes of the law. If they are, there is no need to write specific laws on the legal position of fetuses. Likewise, there are specific laws to protect animals because the rights granted to humans are not automatically in place for them.

Quote
I mean... yeah. The information is pretty available, most everyone should know neither of those things lead to good results when the child is born.

Quote
I personally would ban smoking while pregnant given the serious dangers involved.

The consequence of which is that the woman's body becomes in service of the fetus, removing her autonomy to make decisions. Women are not baby-making-machines.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 21, 2018, 01:05:30 am
Feticide laws are not in place in all US states and the very fact they exist strenghten the idea that fetuses are not human beings in the eyes of the law. If they are, there is no need to write specific laws on the legal position of fetuses. Likewise, there are specific laws to protect animals because the rights granted to humans are not automatically in place for them.

Same could be said for Australian Aboriginals, who were classed as part of the flora and fauna up until the 1960s...the fact that there was a need to write specific laws on their legal position does not strengthen the case that Aboriginals aren't human. Law stems from culture, it's not objective truth.


The consequence of which is that the woman's body becomes in service of the fetus, removing her autonomy to make decisions. Women are not baby-making-machines.

Except from a biological standpoint they are, else the human race wouldn't number 7 billion. And yes, I think it's a moral obligation (that should come naturally anyway) for the woman to be in service of the fetus whilst pregnant.

I think it's very socially damaging to move away from the role of women primarily as mothers (same goes for men as fathers). I don't think it's a good thing that abortion rates are sky high. I don't think it's a good thing that single parent families now make up more than 1 in 4 UK households and growing. This is *not* what human evolution intended given it takes 18-21 years to raise a human to adulthood, so it's no wonder Western societies are rapidly socially decaying. Easy access to abortion has played a big part in that but it's far from the only cause. I think the West needs to grow out of the religion of 'selfism' that's taken over and re-discover duty and responsibility. It'd do wonders for crime rates, educational attainment, living standards and so on.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: TheBoberton on August 21, 2018, 02:55:12 am
The consequence of which is that the woman's body becomes in service of the fetus, removing her autonomy to make decisions.

"Sorry honey; I could have avoided the physical and mental health issues that will plague you for the entirety of your life as a result of your fetal alcohol syndrome, but living in the moment was, like, way more important."
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 21, 2018, 06:42:32 am
Is a day after pill murder?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on August 21, 2018, 11:18:38 pm
If the race wars do end up happening all these aborted babies/cells (whatever you want to call them) won't be able to be conscripted and we're going to have the Chinamen problem where there are just too many of them to fight regardless of our skill and equipment. Think before you speak SHEEP
Fertility Rates
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/Countriesbyfertilityrate.svg/863px-Countriesbyfertilityrate.svg.png)
[close]
World Population Percentage Estimates
Black = Africa , Yellow = Asia, Blue = Europe, Brown = North America
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Pop_continents_2000_2050.png)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 21, 2018, 11:25:11 pm
I really hope you're joking. Because that's the dumbest argument I've seen on this discussion so far.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 21, 2018, 11:28:05 pm
I really hope you're joking. Because that's the dumbest argument I've seen on this discussion so far.
He's trying to troll
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 22, 2018, 03:24:41 am
Actually, he does touch upon an issue that has gone unmentioned thus far by pro-choicers in this thread: terrible western birth rates. Western governments have failed to curb the upcoming fallout via mass immigration (what a colossal failure that has turned out to be) and if the current birth trends continue, the west is going to be in serious trouble both economically and culturally. Abortion has played a major role in all of this.

Women are not baby-making-machines.

Uhhhh, Duuring... I hate to break it to you but...


Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 22, 2018, 03:53:44 am
More like the way of life have changed it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 22, 2018, 04:17:09 am
Yeah, a lot of Europeans are extremely selfish. Don't want to have children but still expect to be propped up by a generous welfare system in old age. They'll eventually die alone in a crappy state-run old people's home.

I'm actually quite surprised at how sanguine a lot of European governments have been about terrible birth rates and are only just starting to react. It's probably too late now and a lot of the changes are minor and/or cosmetic anyway. Only Poland and a few others have actually put into place serious policy to deal with it.

It's also no coincidence that it's the former Communist countries that have the lowest fertility rates in Europe. The kind of anti-family policies that their governments deliberately pursued inevitably led to it. I'm just annoyed the West decided to follow them down the path and is now refusing to turn back. 

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Furrnox on August 22, 2018, 04:51:45 am
I'm unfamiliar with what kind of changes they've made besides outlawing abortion please enlighten me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2018, 10:13:38 am
Well there it is boys. Cohen enters into a plea deal and says that he broke electoral finance law at the direction of the candidate in order to influence the election.  The president has just been implicated in a crime.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Vincenzo on August 22, 2018, 10:32:34 am
I'm unfamiliar with what kind of changes they've made besides outlawing abortion please enlighten me.
They introduced 500+ program.
It promised 500 zloty (about 140 euro) per month from the government per child, mind you that the average salary in this country is like 2000 zloty (about 450 euro), and most low wage jobs like in shops are around 1400 zloty (about 250 euro), meaning borning some kids is usually a higher wage than working full time job.

However when they actually started the program it was only for the 2nd child and up, and after tax reduction you get about 400 zloty, still a lot of money.
So it does push mostly poor families to born a lot of kids.

However what nobody is told is that the Polish government doesn't have this money to spend, they loan it. the national debt of Poland is fast-rising, and no tax increases they can come up with is able to stop it, for instance recently they raised the gasoline tax so high that you pay more for gas in Poland than in Germany, mind you in Germany the income is about 3 times that of Poland.

In the Netherlands we have a saying for this; You get a  cigar out of your own box.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 22, 2018, 03:06:48 pm
Poland's national debt will be even higher if it doesn't have a big enough workforce in the future to service it. If you're going to borrow money then you'll want to see a return bigger than the cost of interest on it. Polish babies will become adult workers and taxpayers, which is a fantastic investment and worth borrowing to pay for.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2018, 03:24:29 pm
Poland's national debt will be even higher if it doesn't have a big enough workforce in the future to service it. If you're going to borrow money then you'll want to see a return bigger than the cost of interest on it. Polish babies will become adult workers and taxpayers, which is a fantastic investment and worth borrowing to pay for.
That is way too simple to actually happen in real life. Surely the recouping of the investment will be dependent on many other variables such as economic growth which influences the number of jobs available for a dramatically increased population (something which won't be helped by a weak economy), social programs such as higher education (which affects the suitability of the workforce to the jobs available in various industries) as well as the number of people from this new generation that will actually find work.

Since it's likely that this policy will lead to a sharp uptick in population growth, if the economy doesn't match it with the aforementioned factors, it's possible that you could end up with a large amount of unemployed which would then be a drain on welfare systems and end up costing the government even more.

I'm not saying that they can't do it since Poland is obviously one of the fastest growing economies in Europe.  I'm just pointing out the complexities rather than workers=money.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on August 22, 2018, 05:21:29 pm
I was only really talking specifically about Poland. Given it's had a fertility rate of below 2.1 per woman for decades they're going to have to sprint simply to stand still. However generally speaking if you have a dynamic, Western-style economy with high individual purchasing power then population growth is a good thing. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 22, 2018, 05:30:05 pm
I was only really talking specifically about Poland. Given it's had a fertility rate of below 2.1 per woman for decades they're going to have to sprint simply to stand still. However generally speaking if you have a dynamic, Western-style economy with high individual purchasing power then population growth is a good thing.
Obviously population growth can be good but I was talking about the idea of excessive growth to the point that economic growth can't keep up. But I see what you mean.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Ted on August 23, 2018, 02:41:49 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/KvWyQId.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Queeeen on August 23, 2018, 05:38:15 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/KvWyQId.jpg)
oh no he didn't
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 24, 2018, 12:06:56 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EThwj4NtnvU

#NewZimbabwe
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Lone on August 24, 2018, 03:13:20 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddzf9Mm4hdY

Like a physicist trying to explain quantum physics to 5 year olds.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Ry@n on August 24, 2018, 03:19:18 pm
 https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1006505/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Corbyn-asked-same-question-video-live-interview  (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1006505/Brexit-news-Jeremy-Corbyn-asked-same-question-video-live-interview)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Svensson on August 24, 2018, 07:56:34 pm
#NewZimbabwe
Rest in peace, Rhodesia.  :'(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on August 24, 2018, 08:02:25 pm
Just read that John McCain is discontinuing his brain cancer treatment.

https://www.facebook.com/6179724269/posts/10156152358034270/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 24, 2018, 08:18:47 pm
Sad. I liked McCain. I'm somewhat surprised he doesn't just resign his seat though. He's not coming back and I assume he has better things to do with his remaining time.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 25, 2018, 12:23:41 am
You live longer without chemotherapy than with failed one.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 25, 2018, 12:38:29 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddzf9Mm4hdY

Like a physicist trying to explain quantum physics to 5 year olds.
Peterson is not that good of a philosopher,  pretty overrated and his obsession with Christianity is weird.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on August 25, 2018, 01:10:58 am
Like a physicist trying to explain quantum physics to 5 year olds.

Nothing to see here but fair and neutral journalism from our tax-payer funded BBC. Move along, bucko.

Also, don't forget to pay your TV licence lest you want to be raided by the CID.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 25, 2018, 10:06:07 am
Like a physicist trying to explain quantum physics to 5 year olds.

Nothing to see here but fair and neutral journalism from our tax-payer funded BBC. Move along, bucko.

Also, don't forget to pay your TV licence lest you want to be raided by the CID.
xd
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Kore on August 25, 2018, 11:17:28 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddzf9Mm4hdY

Like a physicist trying to explain quantum physics to 5 year olds.
Peterson is not that good of a philosopher,  pretty overrated and his obsession with Christianity is weird.

If he dismantled feminism in front of feminists he's automatically a good person!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 25, 2018, 12:26:23 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddzf9Mm4hdY

Like a physicist trying to explain quantum physics to 5 year olds.
Peterson is not that good of a philosopher,  pretty overrated and his obsession with Christianity is weird.

If he dismantled feminism in front of feminists he's automatically a good person!
He is definitely on the good side, but many people view him as some Jesus, which isn't healthy and he himself wouldn't want them to see him that way. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on August 26, 2018, 07:12:34 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA8mYnZcy5w
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on August 26, 2018, 09:58:01 am
Just read that John McCain is discontinuing his brain cancer treatment.

https://www.facebook.com/6179724269/posts/10156152358034270/

He's passed now.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 26, 2018, 10:08:27 am
Just read that John McCain is discontinuing his brain cancer treatment.

https://www.facebook.com/6179724269/posts/10156152358034270/

He's passed now.
Uff cancer treatment seemed to be very effective in this case (probably not, probably he just knew his time has come). What happens now is he replaced?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 26, 2018, 11:17:45 am
The governor of Arizona appoints a (Republican) replacement who serves either until a special election in 2018 or until McCain's term is up, in 2020. It's rather late in the season for a special election + primaries, and the Arizona seat is not very safe at the moment, so the replacement will probably serve until 2020. There's a good chance his wife will be appointed.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on August 26, 2018, 11:19:52 am
RIP to McCain. I didn't agree with him on some things but he was a great servant of his country and gave so much for what he believed in.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 26, 2018, 11:41:31 am
The governor of Arizona appoints a (Republican) replacement who serves either until a special election in 2018 or until McCain's term is up, in 2020. It's rather late in the season for a special election + primaries, and the Arizona seat is not very safe at the moment, so the replacement will probably serve until 2020. There's a good chance his wife will be appointed.
Medieval country xd
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on August 26, 2018, 01:55:06 pm
Correction, McCain's term is up in 2022 but elections might be held alongside presidential and other elections in 2020. It's pretty much up to the governor.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riv on August 27, 2018, 07:49:55 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddzf9Mm4hdY

Like a physicist trying to explain quantum physics to 5 year olds.
Peterson is not that good of a philosopher,  pretty overrated and his obsession with Christianity is weird.
He doesn't call himself a philosopher? I wouldn't necessarily say he's obsessed with Christianity either, it's more so that he's interested in the archetypes within the bible itself, thus, he speaks from a psychological stance. If you watched any of his Biblical Lectures you would know that the Bible is more than just religious rambling, it provides psychological significance and an understanding of Western culture.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 27, 2018, 08:28:21 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddzf9Mm4hdY

Like a physicist trying to explain quantum physics to 5 year olds.
Peterson is not that good of a philosopher,  pretty overrated and his obsession with Christianity is weird.
He doesn't call himself a philosopher? I wouldn't necessarily say he's obsessed with Christianity either, it's more so that he's interested in the archetypes within the bible itself, thus, he speaks from a psychological stance. If you watched any of his Biblical Lectures you would know that the Bible is more than just religious rambling, it provides psychological significance and an understanding of Western culture.
He doesn't but he criticizes post modernist philosophers as if he was one. I've seen people that study philosophy say that he actually doesn't understands post modernist philosophy. Bible itself is mostly just a religious rules. It is actually mostly ancient Greek (Aristotles) and medieval (Thomas Aquinas) philosophers that influenced Western culture. For example Thomas Aquinas read Aristotles works and used its philosophy to apply it into Bible. He took plain words from Bible and explained them with help of Aristotles. Every time you take a book you can find some deep meanings if you look hard enough and want to find them. For example there is debate whether Jesus claimed that homosexuals need help or is their way of life equally normal to life of heterosexuals. Theologians of course took something that Jesus supposedly said and explained it as if here he meant that homosexuals need help, even though those words could also mean the opposite, they explained it as it fit them the most or what they believed it meant.
You could take a garbage book like Harry Potter and find archetypes that define Western culture if you really wanted to see them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on August 27, 2018, 10:06:20 pm
You could take a garbage book like Harry Potter and find archetypes that define Western culture if you really wanted to see them.

Underlined: if you define Harry Potter as garbage you either don't understand what it was written for or you're just a salty alt type trying to be part of a sub-culture by denying things.
Italic: That's because, tadaa, Harry Potter was written by someone raised by Western culture and thus stuck in the Western thinking. You bet you're going to find Western Archetypes in there.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riv on August 27, 2018, 10:26:04 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddzf9Mm4hdY

Like a physicist trying to explain quantum physics to 5 year olds.
Peterson is not that good of a philosopher,  pretty overrated and his obsession with Christianity is weird.
He doesn't call himself a philosopher? I wouldn't necessarily say he's obsessed with Christianity either, it's more so that he's interested in the archetypes within the bible itself, thus, he speaks from a psychological stance. If you watched any of his Biblical Lectures you would know that the Bible is more than just religious rambling, it provides psychological significance and an understanding of Western culture.
He doesn't but he criticizes post modernist philosophers as if he was one. I've seen people that study philosophy say that he actually doesn't understands post modernist philosophy. Bible itself is mostly just a religious rules. It is actually mostly ancient Greek (Aristotles) and medieval (Thomas Aquinas) philosophers that influenced Western culture. For example Thomas Aquinas read Aristotles works and used its philosophy to apply it into Bible. He took plain words from Bible and explained them with help of Aristotles. Every time you take a book you can find some deep meanings if you look hard enough and want to find them. For example there is debate whether Jesus claimed that homosexuals need help or is their way of life equally normal to life of heterosexuals. Theologians of course took something that Jesus supposedly said and explained it as if here he meant that homosexuals need help, even though those words could also mean the opposite, they explained it as it fit them the most or what they believed it meant.
You could take a garbage book like Harry Potter and find archetypes that define Western culture if you really wanted to see them.

I can agree with you in regards to his stance on post-modernism. I think most people view post-modernism as an ideology when in reality it's a description on what people are doing, (people losing faith with western modernity and beginning to reject it to replace it with values they have made up themselves) would be an example. However, I guess what he is eluding to is the people that start to believe in post-modernism (post-modernists) which therefore transforms it into an ideology of sorts. In essence, post-modernism is a form of uber skepticism deriving from modernism. More and more there is no longer a trust in institutionalized science and instead, structure is replaced by choice. People are starting to create their own form of logic and their own philosophies, an example of which would be transgenderism, the idea that an identity is now a commodity (you can choose what gender you are etc) and how the introduction of Bill C-16 is a threat to freedom of speech and therefore a threat to how we think. So that's sort of how I would interpret what Jordan refer's to when he talks about 'post-modernism/ists' and why he believes they are a threat. However, another way of interpreting people as being 'post-modernists' is not because they believe in post-modernism. post-modernism basically gives a prediction of the future, (people losing faith in western institutions and replacing conventional values with ones they've made up themselves), this is what is happening in Western civilization and therefore the people that are doing this are technically a creation of post-modernism if that makes sense. They are, therefore 'post-modernists', as they have become what post-modernism predicted. So that could also be what he means when referring to post-modernists.

I'd also disagree that the Bible is just 'religious rules'. It offers a perspective that allows one to find wisdom in how one shall face the world. I also didn't say that the Bible influenced Western culture, I said it helps us understand it. By that I mean it's probably a good idea to know the story of Christ's Passion in order to listen to St Matthew Passion by J.S Bach. Or that it's also probably a good idea to know that the within the context of art, believers in the early Christian church would use certain signs like the anchor to show that they are Christians. There is a difference between influence and understand.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 28, 2018, 12:34:52 am
You could take a garbage book like Harry Potter and find archetypes that define Western culture if you really wanted to see them.

Underlined: if you define Harry Potter as garbage you either don't understand what it was written for or you're just a salty alt type trying to be part of a sub-culture by denying things.
Italic: That's because, tadaa, Harry Potter was written by someone raised by Western culture and thus stuck in the Western thinking. You bet you're going to find Western Archetypes in there.
I mean it is nice book for children I guess.
You could take a book written by someone raised in Chinese culture, you would still find them.

I'd also disagree that the Bible is just 'religious rules'. It offers a perspective that allows one to find wisdom in how one shall face the world. I also didn't say that the Bible influenced Western culture, I said it helps us understand it. By that I mean it's probably a good idea to know the story of Christ's Passion in order to listen to St Matthew Passion by J.S Bach. Or that it's also probably a good idea to know that the within the context of art, believers in the early Christian church would use certain signs like the anchor to show that they are Christians. There is a difference between influence and understand.
Well exactly purpose of religious rules is to help one find wisdom in how one shall face the world. Life rules is maybe better expression.
I kind of don't understand what is the purpose of him helping people understand Western culture, I feel like people in Europe that are well rounded already understand it and those who do not mostly are not interested and never will. I don't know how he could bring this knowledge to those people. Could you explain that?

I can agree with you in regards to his stance on post-modernism. I think most people view post-modernism as an ideology when in reality it's a description on what people are doing, (people losing faith with western modernity and beginning to reject it to replace it with values they have made up themselves) would be an example. However, I guess what he is eluding to is the people that start to believe in post-modernism (post-modernists) which therefore transforms it into an ideology of sorts. In essence, post-modernism is a form of uber skepticism deriving from modernism. More and more there is no longer a trust in institutionalized science and instead, structure is replaced by choice. People are starting to create their own form of logic and their own philosophies, an example of which would be transgenderism, the idea that an identity is now a commodity (you can choose what gender you are etc) and how the introduction of Bill C-16 is a threat to freedom of speech and therefore a threat to how we think. So that's sort of how I would interpret what Jordan refer's to when he talks about 'post-modernism/ists' and why he believes they are a threat. However, another way of interpreting people as being 'post-modernists' is not because they believe in post-modernism. post-modernism basically gives a prediction of the future, (people losing faith in western institutions and replacing conventional values with ones they've made up themselves), this is what is happening in Western civilization and therefore the people that are doing this are technically a creation of post-modernism if that makes sense. They are, therefore 'post-modernists', as they have become what post-modernism predicted. So that could also be what he means when referring to post-modernists.
Yes people ignoring scientific facts and most basic human tools like math is pretty problematic. I find (trans)genderism very interesting occurrence. People that support genderism are mostly people that are against gender roles and stereotypes (men play football, woman cook for example). I don't understand why they feel the need for social construct of gender since it has no purpose but to label people with gender roles, stereotypes and pronouns (since gender won't help a doctor healing his patient) which is what they are against. It makes far more sense to only have sex which is defined by science and let people live like they want to live, if a born man wants to dress as a girl let him but that won't change his y chromosome to x.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riv on August 28, 2018, 03:07:28 am
Quote
Well exactly purpose of religious rules is to help one find wisdom in how one shall face the world. Life rules is maybe better expression.
I kind of don't understand what is the purpose of him helping people understand Western culture, I feel like people in Europe that are well rounded already understand it and those who do not mostly are not interested and never will. I don't know how he could bring this knowledge to those people. Could you explain that?

Mmm one that I can think of off of the top of my head would be when he talks about the Western individual. He states how it's not an accident that the axiomatic western individual (Jesus) was someone who was unfairly nailed to a cross and tortured as this is symbolises the idea that life is suffering and it's what the religious people have always been saying. I sort of agree with this, we all go through hardships in life and not everything is fair - people you know are going to eventually die, you're going to die at some point. So there are many reasons for us to be resentful. But what Peterson proposes is that although life is suffering, there are ways to reduce it. First, you accept it. Then you start with yourself, get yourself together so that when something bad happens you're not whining away and instead you can stand up solidly. Be a better person is basically the point, and that's a start in overcoming the suffering of life. On a side note, I just realized it's somewhat similar to the Stoic philosophy as well. So that's sort of one way how he meshes religion and the understanding of western culture together, but that was very brief also. The reason I think he's so successful is because in fact there are a lot of people who are whining away in the corner and are incompetent, and Peterson knocks sense into them, tells them to stand up with their shoulders back and take responsibility for their lives. He emphasizes the importance of the individual and pushes for self-improvement. So by him helping one understand why the axiomatic western individual is nailed to a cross, he can then help people understand how to better themselves if that makes sense.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: McPero on August 28, 2018, 01:08:45 pm
Quote
Well exactly purpose of religious rules is to help one find wisdom in how one shall face the world. Life rules is maybe better expression.
I kind of don't understand what is the purpose of him helping people understand Western culture, I feel like people in Europe that are well rounded already understand it and those who do not mostly are not interested and never will. I don't know how he could bring this knowledge to those people. Could you explain that?

Mmm one that I can think of off of the top of my head would be when he talks about the Western individual. He states how it's not an accident that the axiomatic western individual (Jesus) was someone who was unfairly nailed to a cross and tortured as this is symbolises the idea that life is suffering and it's what the religious people have always been saying. I sort of agree with this, we all go through hardships in life and not everything is fair - people you know are going to eventually die, you're going to die at some point. So there are many reasons for us to be resentful. But what Peterson proposes is that although life is suffering, there are ways to reduce it. First, you accept it. Then you start with yourself, get yourself together so that when something bad happens you're not whining away and instead you can stand up solidly. Be a better person is basically the point, and that's a start in overcoming the suffering of life. On a side note, I just realized it's somewhat similar to the Stoic philosophy as well. So that's sort of one way how he meshes religion and the understanding of western culture together, but that was very brief also. The reason I think he's so successful is because in fact there are a lot of people who are whining away in the corner and are incompetent, and Peterson knocks sense into them, tells them to stand up with their shoulders back and take responsibility for their lives. He emphasizes the importance of the individual and pushes for self-improvement. So by him helping one understand why the axiomatic western individual is nailed to a cross, he can then help people understand how to better themselves if that makes sense.
I think Western individual is far more about believing that he has his future in his hands that he can advance in society to higher status which is also main tool for capitalism to run. Life being suffering was mostly medieval thing which kinda started to die out with Renaissance. Out of "Christians" right now only orthodox still follow this. While for example puritans made up USA mentality with predestination.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 03, 2018, 05:08:37 am
Looks like it'll be 'No Deal' then, and Barnier won't be appointed as Juncker's successor after all.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45389610

Kinda funny to see a careerist politician panic as he realises his political career is almost over. Rather than be driven around in an expensive limousine and be addressed as 'Monsieur le Président' he'll now end his days in some shitty think tank. Might even have to peddle a ghostwritten book about how the Brexit negotiations failing weren't his fault (which to be fair they weren't since his only input was eating cake in front of the cameras whilst the civil servants did all the work behind the scenes).

Then again the EU does often reward failure so who knows?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on September 04, 2018, 02:13:05 am
You could take a garbage book like Harry Potter and find archetypes that define Western culture if you really wanted to see them.

Underlined: if you define Harry Potter as garbage you either don't understand what it was written for or you're just a salty alt type trying to be part of a sub-culture by denying things.
Italic: That's because, tadaa, Harry Potter was written by someone raised by Western culture and thus stuck in the Western thinking. You bet you're going to find Western Archetypes in there.

(https://im5.ezgif.com/tmp/ezgif-5-72f2c5462a.gif)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Windflower on September 04, 2018, 02:21:54 am
Harry Potter is a fine work of literature.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on September 05, 2018, 12:04:27 am
Quite the performance from Democrat protesters at the senate committee! Does anyone else feel nothing but secondhand embarrassment for those who were wearing outfits from "The Handmaid's Tale"? Good God.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 05, 2018, 02:20:18 am
Does anyone else feel nothing but secondhand embarrassment for those who were wearing outfits from "The Handmaid's Tale"? Good God.

I personally welcome it. Makes a change from those people who used to constantly view politics through the prism of Harry Potter.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Von Bergen on September 05, 2018, 10:00:41 am
Harry Potter is a fine work of literature.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on September 05, 2018, 06:36:13 pm
I've so for only had 1 of my 5 profs not mention Donald Trump in a negative light and its day 2, the fuck is that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on September 05, 2018, 08:21:43 pm
The truth.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on September 05, 2018, 08:36:17 pm
“I don’t know why they don’t take care of a situation like that. I think it’s embarrassing for the country to allow protesters. You don’t even know what side the protesters are on.”

There you have it. Donald Trump doesn't like free speech when it goes against him.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 05, 2018, 08:43:20 pm
“I don’t know why they don’t take care of a situation like that. I think it’s embarrassing for the country to allow protesters. You don’t even know what side the protesters are on.”

There you have it. Donald Trump doesn't like free speech when it goes against him.

I don't think Trump actually thinks that deeply about anything. His positions depend on his mood, who the last person to speak to him was, etc.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on September 05, 2018, 08:47:48 pm
Trade is bad.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on September 05, 2018, 08:59:22 pm
“I don’t know why they don’t take care of a situation like that. I think it’s embarrassing for the country to allow protesters. You don’t even know what side the protesters are on.”

There you have it. Donald Trump doesn't like free speech when it goes against him.

I don't think Trump actually thinks that deeply about anything. His positions depend on his mood, who the last person to speak to him was, etc.
Exactly. Dangerous to such a volatile individual in power.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on September 05, 2018, 09:04:44 pm
I've so for only had 1 of my 5 profs not mention Donald Trump in a negative light and its day 2, the fuck is that.

What subject do you study?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sarado on September 06, 2018, 12:13:30 am
I think professors of any study can find something negative to say about him.

Sport science: His sport activity involves using a vehicle to avoid using your legs
History: Frederick Douglass is still alive
Economics: Claimed a billion dollar loss within a year
Law: Undermines the court system
English/literature: covfefe
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on September 06, 2018, 12:57:31 am
Some professors are obviously much more inclined than others as a result of the populism Trump propagates threatening the existence of many social/soft/fake sciences focusing on identity, culture and collective groups. You'll find Trump's name mentioned far more from professors of humanities than you would in STEM. That was my experience, at least (the unsung benefits of studying in a field that actually benefits society).

“I don’t know why they don’t take care of a situation like that. I think it’s embarrassing for the country to allow protesters. You don’t even know what side the protesters are on.”

There you have it. Donald Trump doesn't like free speech when it goes against him.

"Freedom of speech is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or a community to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of retaliation, censorship, or sanction."

When a grown woman stands up during a senate hearing and begins to screech hysterically, she is not exercising her right to free speech. That's a deliberate disturbance designed to hinder the progress of the hearing.

Context matters; Trump's lack of grammar and lack of specifying where protesters should be allowed to protest is what has landed him in trouble here. Letting the morons protest outside is within their rights, sure. But letting them inside the chamber itself? Now that's just ridiculous.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on September 06, 2018, 01:19:27 am
If he meant that then it’s his responsibility to clarify. His statements should be taken at face value rather than you trying to defend him by claiming he actually just wrote it wrong. It’s a really shitty, flimsy and frankly embarrassing defence of what he said.

It’s not the first time he’s been against free speech. When American footballers knelt during the anthem (thereby exercising their constitutional right to free speech) he suggested that they should lose their jobs. If that had happened their rights would have been infringed upon. If it happened once then you might be able to put it down to grammar but this is clearly a consistent pattern within his statements.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on September 06, 2018, 01:37:50 am
If he meant that then it’s his responsibility to clarify. His statements should be taken at face value rather than you trying to defend him by claiming he actually just wrote it wrong. It’s a really shitty, flimsy and frankly embarrassing defence of what he said.

I would not need to defend him if you had not taken that quote out of the context it was made in. It's obvious when the media does it and plain insulting when you do it. Trump would have to be mentally challenged or after career suicide to state "protesting should not be allowed generally".

It’s not the first time he’s been against free speech. When American footballers knelt during the anthem (thereby exercising their constitutional right to free speech) he suggested that they should lose their jobs. If that had happened their rights would have been infringed upon. If it happened once then you might be able to put it down to grammar but this is clearly a consistent pattern within his statements.

I give you the textbook definition of "free speech" and then you go and say this. The entire "kneeling during the anthem" performance was a juvenile flaunt of privilege than it was a protest. They did not articulate an opinion or opposition, and they achieved nothing.

Indeed, after seeing Colin Kaepernick and a few other black footballers kneel, the gangsters of Detroit and Chicago laid down their weapons, and all the corrupt white Sheriffs in the south resigned. Fuck off.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on September 06, 2018, 01:50:21 am
Trump would have to be after career suicide? Or maybe he’s just fucking stupid. He should know that his statements are going to be taken how he says them. People shouldn’t have to infer and wade through his bullshit.

If you read into the explanations given by those who knelt then you would know that’s it’s a protest against racism. A juvenile flaunt of privilege? They used their position to try and do some good and raise awareness for a topic that they think is a real issue.

Maybe you should be the one to read the definition of free speech, as expressive conduct is viewed as a form of it and is therefore protected by the first amendment. http://law.jrank.org/pages/7019/Freedom-Speech-Expressive-Conduct.html

It’s irrelevant if the protest achieved anything or not, it’s still protected by the first amendment, meaning Trump has advocated for taking away the rights of these players. I wouldn’t expect you to understand all of this though since we’ve already established that you don’t like social sciences.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on September 06, 2018, 02:15:33 am
Trump would have to be after career suicide? Or maybe he’s just fucking stupid. He should know that his statements are going to be taken how he says them. People shouldn’t have to infer and wade through his bullshit.

For the third and final time, context matters. That removes the need to infer and wade, no?

If you read into the explanations given by those who knelt then you would know that’s it’s a protest against racism. A juvenile flaunt of privilege? They used their position to try and do some good and raise awareness for a topic that they think is a real issue.

I don't care for the rhetoric made behind the scenes, I'm speaking of the act itself. What did the protest achieve other than get the footballers themselves on the front of CNN?
It's sadly not within their contract to make political statements, that is not what they are paid millions for. I'm glad the NFL gave them the boot, pun intended.

Maybe you should be the one to read the definition of free speech, as expressive conduct is viewed as a form of it and is therefore protected by the first amendment. http://law.jrank.org/pages/7019/Freedom-Speech-Expressive-Conduct.html

It’s irrelevant if the protest achieved anything or not, it’s still protected by the first amendment, meaning Trump has advocated for taking away the rights of these players. I wouldn’t expect you to understand all of this though since we’ve already established that you don’t like social sciences.

Not true, since the NFL reserves the right to fire whomever they wish as a private company via powers lent to NFL by their contracts. Free speech protections are typically limited to government, public employees and unionized employees (given the right negotiated terms).

Didn't you argue this when Google engineer James Damore released his memo and was subsequently fired? How interesting.

I wouldn’t expect you to understand all of this though since we’ve already established that you don’t like social sciences.

Liking =/= understanding.
Oh Toffee, your articulation has improved over the past year but the underlining arguments behind your posts are still the same fundamentally flawed shite they've always been. Thanks for the spacing between each flawed statement by the way, that made my life easier a bit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on September 06, 2018, 02:44:32 am
Context matters, which is why the president needs to clarify. He made a generalised statement without specification and he’s being punished for it. It’s not everyone else’s fault that his goons like you follow and pick up all the shit he leaves lying about.

The act got them on the front of CNN which got people talking about the issue - which is exactly what they wanted. The fact that you can’t see that is funny. The entire point of a protest is to shed light and gain publicity for an issue. Their protests have become an international talking point which is exactly what they intended.

The NFL does reserve the right to fire and might technically be within their rights to ban or fine players, but for the president of the USA to try and interfere by advocating for their firing when he is supposed to be a guardian of people’s rights to express themselves, sets a dangerous precedent of a member of government overstepping the mark. Trump does actually come close to breaking the law, as its illegal for a government official to attempt to influence a private entity’s employment decisions. The only thing that stops this code from applying is the partisan political motive, considering criticism received from within his own party for his comments. I’ll include he link to the code for reference.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/227

And please don’t try and patronise me. You spend your time thinking you’re better than everyone else but fail to understand a lot of basic concepts. For example, saying that social science has no use to society when it underpins the very rights you enjoy today.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on September 06, 2018, 03:26:23 am
The act got them on the front of CNN which got people talking about the issue - which is exactly what they wanted. The fact that you can’t see that is funny. The entire point of a protest is to shed light and gain publicity for an issue. Their protests have become an international talking point which is exactly what they intended.

The NFL does reserve the right to fire and might technically be within their rights to ban or fine players, but for the president of the USA to try and interfere by advocating for their firing when he is supposed to be a guardian of people’s rights to express themselves, sets a dangerous precedent of a member of government overstepping the mark. Trump does actually come close to breaking the law, as its illegal for a government official to attempt to influence a private entity’s employment decisions. The only thing that stops this code from applying is the partisan political motive, considering criticism received from within his own party for his comments. I’ll include he link to the code for reference.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/227

You just repeat the same argument over and over again with added hyperbole. 5000 posts, no fucking wonder.

For example, saying that social science has no use to society when it underpins the very rights you enjoy today.

I did not say that Toffee, I alluded to people studying for degrees that have no use to society.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sarado on September 06, 2018, 08:13:02 am

I don't care for the rhetoric made behind the scenes, I'm speaking of the act itself. What did the protest achieve other than get the footballers themselves on the front of CNN?
It's sadly not within their contract to make political statements, that is not what they are paid millions for. I'm glad the NFL gave them the boot, pun intended.

But...that's the whole point of a protest? Raise awareness for the issue. When I organise a protest and the only person who hears about it is my neighbour, I'm doing something wrong.
If you only consider a protest a protest when it actually triggers a change, then that's not a very good definition. We would have hardly any events that we could call 'protest' by that definition

I mean, it's in the very name. 'Protest' the issue, not 'Fix' the issue. If they were in a position to fix it on their own, they wouldn't have to protest in the first place, would they.

You put it like it was never clear what the issue was about, that the only thing that was reported was 'Breaking news: Footballers kneel'.
I'd argue they were pretty clear about what the issue was.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on September 06, 2018, 08:20:38 am
Trump is a shit president and history will record him as such.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on September 06, 2018, 08:46:47 am
His political proponents may be all in a merry fucking mood by what he does but Trump doesn't even understand the principles of how diploacy and politics work... even arguiing he is anti-system wouldn't work anymore because he isn't doing anything to change the system... and if he would... you cannot change a system by yelling at it how horrible it is...


Also his security decisions like what he is doing with Pakistan and completely ignoring the national security strategy and not even thinking ABOUT vital interests of the United States from a security perspective are hilariously incompetant...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on September 06, 2018, 10:02:11 am
The act got them on the front of CNN which got people talking about the issue - which is exactly what they wanted. The fact that you can’t see that is funny. The entire point of a protest is to shed light and gain publicity for an issue. Their protests have become an international talking point which is exactly what they intended.

The NFL does reserve the right to fire and might technically be within their rights to ban or fine players, but for the president of the USA to try and interfere by advocating for their firing when he is supposed to be a guardian of people’s rights to express themselves, sets a dangerous precedent of a member of government overstepping the mark. Trump does actually come close to breaking the law, as its illegal for a government official to attempt to influence a private entity’s employment decisions. The only thing that stops this code from applying is the partisan political motive, considering criticism received from within his own party for his comments. I’ll include he link to the code for reference.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/227

You just repeat the same argument over and over again with added hyperbole. 5000 posts, no fucking wonder.

For example, saying that social science has no use to society when it underpins the very rights you enjoy today.

I did not say that Toffee, I alluded to people studying for degrees that have no use to society.
Because my argument is right and you’re not doing anything to disprove it. I just gave you enough reason to prove that Trump shouldn’t be tweeting about this stuff but you can’t accept the fact that you’re wrong as usual.

I literally provided you with a code of the US law that Trump came within a technicality of breaking. Then when you know you can’t defend your ridiculous stance anymore, you start talking about random stuff like my post count. There is no hyperbole, only the truth and facts. But we all know the real reason that you don’t like the kneeling. Because somebody is willing to stand up against the kind of discriminatory America that you would love to live in.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on September 06, 2018, 12:34:26 pm
Toffee Gordo and I don't often agree with each other but this time we can agree that your arguments are literally confusingly pulled out of your ass.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on September 06, 2018, 12:53:22 pm
But...that's the whole point of a protest? Raise awareness for the issue. When I organise a protest and the only person who hears about it is my neighbour, I'm doing something wrong.
If you only consider a protest a protest when it actually triggers a change, then that's not a very good definition. We would have hardly any events that we could call 'protest' by that definition

I mean, it's in the very name. 'Protest' the issue, not 'Fix' the issue. If they were in a position to fix it on their own, they wouldn't have to protest in the first place, would they.

You put it like it was never clear what the issue was about, that the only thing that was reported was 'Breaking news: Footballers kneel'.
I'd argue they were pretty clear about what the issue was.

Well, there are many forms of protest... I'd argue that this particular case wasn't a very effect one; I strongly doubt it "raised awareness" for police brutality (kneeling during the US anthem could be interpreted as a protest against a great many things), and the thought that it actually did anything to combat the brutality itself is laughable as I think I have already established.

Trump is a shit president and history will record him as such.

Trump's presidential legacy will at least include dismantling the backbone of Obama's legacy which is good enough for most, lol. Then there's always the better-than-most legacy of his life before 2016, and who knows what we will see in his second term.

Toffee Gordo and I don't often agree with each other but this time we can agree that your arguments are literally confusingly pulled out of your ass.

If only Duuring hadn't banned/coerced all right-wingers into silence during late 2016. I'd love for someone else to step in and attempt to string some coherent form of argument out of Toffee's emotional, mindless and utterly hyperbolic rhetoric.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on September 06, 2018, 01:01:54 pm
Fuck off Riddlez I gave him facts backed up with sources. I haven’t pulled them out of my ass at all. These guys were peacefully protesting against an injustice and Gordo and his goonies act like they’ve just shot the president. Everyone is talking about the issue now; meaning they achieved exactly what they wanted to.

What about my argument is ridiculous? Don’t chat shit and not explain yourself. You all just ignore the fact that I literally quoted US law and how close Trump came to breaking it.

It’s not my fault that you all want to live in a society where some men making a stand for something that they believe in is a despicable act. But none of you get outraged when a black man is shot dead in the street. It’s a fucking embarrassment and you should all be ashamed.

Gordo loves to rant on about how Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread but doesn’t realise that his approval ranting is tanked and he even lost the popular vote to begin with. I know my posts include a lot of emotion, but that’s not a bad thing when I believe something to be right. At least I can stand up for something that is good.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on September 06, 2018, 01:13:26 pm
It’s not my fault that you all want to live in a society where some men making a stand for something that they believe in is a despicable act. But none of you get outraged when a black man is shot dead in the street. It’s a fucking embarrassment and you should all be ashamed.


I don't particularly care when a football man sits down during the national anthem because of some ideal that he thinks he is propagating as a multi-millionaire. Indeed black football players have it very rough... It's interesting how they claim to be part of a subset of the population while obviously not being it, being as rich as they are.

What does tick me a little more than the fact of him kneeling during the anthem (which isn't an actual offensive thing to do... I mean... kneeling?) What does irritate me is that he is using sports as a means to propagate political views... which is EXACTLY what sports is not about. It's completely justifiable that the NFL fired them.

I do not believe in a society where men are despised by taking a stand... so in a way my claim about your bullshit is true, ironically you fullfilled it yourself. I just care about the timing and the way it's done. And indeed I don't get outraged when a black man gets shot dead in the street. By now I am used to it and painfully laugh and shake my head saying "oh, America." or "Something with proper application of violence."

I don't get outraged because it doesn't in any way help my already stressfull day-to-day workload. But yes I do think it's outrageous. So please don't wrongfully degrade my sense of morality.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on September 06, 2018, 01:27:05 pm
They’re rich because they play the game professionally, that doesn’t mean that a lot of them don’t come from deprived backgrounds. Colin Kaepernick was born to a single mother and was given up for adoption as a child.

Whilst he is conveying his political views, it is not without just cause  but rather in response to the idea that he must stand for the anthem. He feels that he should not have to stand for something that he does not support. Based on this, you could argue that it isn’t his fault that he feels like kneeling, but rather something that is brought about by the tradition of having to stand for the flag/anthem.

It’s easy for you to sit and talk about how you don’t support that society, but by not calling those who do out on their bullshit, you’re allowing the process to continue. Sometimes it takes acts from individuals with great influence to push for positive change.

Again, I’ll remind you that my argument has been based on fact. My original point was Trump trying to quash the expression of said individuals, and I even quoted a law that would apply to him if his stance had been official party policy. These men are trying to encourage change in their country, it’s often difficult when they’re prevented from doing so by some weird nationalist tradition of forcing people to stand for the flag but we should encourage them for doing their best to inspire change for a more equal society.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 06, 2018, 05:12:56 pm
Alright, which B-rate Hollywood director is now working for Donald Tusk?
https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1037673158868959232

Though to be fair it's still a lot better than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AhTyRAnGAg
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on September 06, 2018, 05:39:44 pm
In regards to Gordo, we're quite clearly not going to agree on anything and all this is leading to is an annoying insults match. I won't post here anymore since it's a bit of a waste of time.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on September 06, 2018, 05:50:44 pm
It’s not my fault that you all want to live in a society where some men making a stand for something that they believe in is a despicable act. But none of you get outraged when a black man is shot dead in the street. It’s a fucking embarrassment and you should all be ashamed.

Gordo loves to rant on about how Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread but doesn’t realise that his approval ranting is tanked and he even lost the popular vote to begin with. I know my posts include a lot of emotion, but that’s not a bad thing when I believe something to be right. At least I can stand up for something that is good.

I haven't seen a meltdown this embarrassing since the days of Gluk and Nipplestockings.

You are legitimately a social justice warrior.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Toffee on September 06, 2018, 05:54:46 pm
It’s not my fault that you all want to live in a society where some men making a stand for something that they believe in is a despicable act. But none of you get outraged when a black man is shot dead in the street. It’s a fucking embarrassment and you should all be ashamed.

Gordo loves to rant on about how Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread but doesn’t realise that his approval ranting is tanked and he even lost the popular vote to begin with. I know my posts include a lot of emotion, but that’s not a bad thing when I believe something to be right. At least I can stand up for something that is good.

I haven't seen a meltdown this embarrassing since the days of Gluk and Nipplestockings.

You are legitimately a social justice warrior.
Okay Gordo, whatever you say mate. I'm just not gonna interact with you anymore. It's clear we both disagree.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 06, 2018, 06:35:35 pm
Kap only started this shit cause he was about to get benched.  A backup QB that was jerked off to infinity by the franchise because he had one good game and led them to Super Bowl which they lost anyways. Fast forward a few years and he has had two losing seasons, abysmal yards thrown, and a frustrated, shrinking fanbase. "What ever shall I do to regain my relevancy oh lord?" cried the oversized afro.  The rest is history from there.  He used his standing in the NFL to stir some controversy and regain his audience, promptly splitting the country's opinion of him.  Also, only getting a fourth out of his contract probably sent him into a hissy fit.  The kid was shoved into the spotlight and he didn't know what to do without it.


Though, who cares about American sports outside of the states anyways, the rest of the world is living in bliss! While this "shithole" bulldozes itself a grave.







Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on September 06, 2018, 09:17:21 pm
Quote
What does irritate me is that he is using sports as a means to propagate political views... which is EXACTLY what sports is not about

Everything is politics. Sport is maybe the most political thing in our society next to, you know, actual politics and governance.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: William on September 06, 2018, 09:52:16 pm
It is a sad reality but that reality is that everything is political, as Duuring has pointed out. We cannot hope to escape it anymore, as sad as that possibility is.

Kap is a simple example of 'securing the bag' even if he was a black man raised by a benevolent white family since his black family abandoned him. But hey, all cops are pigs amiright?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 06, 2018, 10:15:10 pm
It is a sad reality but that reality is that everything is political, as Duuring has pointed out. We cannot hope to escape it anymore, as sad as that possibility is.

Kap is a simple example of 'securing the bag' even if he was a black man raised by a benevolent white family since his black family abandoned him. But hey, all cops are pigs amiright?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9YzC67yijo
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on September 07, 2018, 01:12:02 am
I've so for only had 1 of my 5 profs not mention Donald Trump in a negative light and its day 2, the fuck is that.

What subject do you study?
Its not surprising the subjects in which they dislike him. English and Philosophy hate him, History isn't fond, Polisci talked about why his administration is going tits up and pgov didn't mention him. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on September 08, 2018, 09:03:19 am
(https://i.gyazo.com/7f5e99b05c2c699ae8532e7c8a8cccd2.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 09, 2018, 04:09:11 am
Most of these social diseases originate from Germany.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-poland-politics/defiant-kaczynski-says-poland-must-avoid-eus-social-diseases-idUSKCN1LI0J2

Can anyone tell me a list of positive things Germany has done for the world, or even just the European portion of it? I genuinely can't think of any.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on September 09, 2018, 12:35:47 pm
What 'social diseases'? This article is incredibly ambigious.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 09, 2018, 03:04:00 pm
Obviously he's talking about family breakdown (divorce, single-parent families, abortion, low fertility rates, etc) and social disintegration (multiculturalism, Islamic extremism, mass immigration, etc). You could also add a breakdown in law and order to that too.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Tharan on September 09, 2018, 03:59:18 pm
Curious to see people opinions of the UK government's plan to make tenants fees illegal to rent a property illegal?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on September 09, 2018, 06:17:40 pm
Obviously he's talking about family breakdown (divorce, single-parent families, abortion, low fertility rates, etc) and social disintegration (multiculturalism, Islamic extremism, mass immigration, etc). You could also add a breakdown in law and order to that too.

Obviously he's talking about gay marriage and rights for women. See, he's talking so unspecified you can spin this either way.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: DaMonkey on September 09, 2018, 07:37:40 pm
Obviously he's talking about rampant republicanism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 09, 2018, 08:42:31 pm
Obviously he's talking about family breakdown (divorce, single-parent families, abortion, low fertility rates, etc) and social disintegration (multiculturalism, Islamic extremism, mass immigration, etc). You could also add a breakdown in law and order to that too.

Obviously he's talking about gay marriage and rights for women. See, he's talking so unspecified you can spin this either way.

He's talking to a domestic Polish audience who know what PiS stand for, and criticism of Western social decay are a well-known part of their platform.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on September 10, 2018, 12:15:10 am
In that case it surely included gay marriage, or even LGBT rights in general.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 10, 2018, 12:25:20 am
Probably, will have to ask my wife, but it's understood in Poland what is meant the same way Americans understand what 'Drain the Swamp' entails.

Also watching the Swedish election. 18% is pretty good and SD dragged most parties to the right on social issues. Could have done better tho...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwLCjZVEtpE
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on September 10, 2018, 04:40:21 am
Also watching the Swedish election. 18% is pretty good and SD dragged most parties to the right on social issues. Could have done better tho...

Yeeeah... I think Sweden's pretty far gone at this point. On the bright side these new Swedish contracts enabling sex between partners will mean more work for you though right, eh Steven?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 10, 2018, 03:27:44 pm
Also watching the Swedish election. 18% is pretty good and SD dragged most parties to the right on social issues. Could have done better tho...

Yeeeah... I think Sweden's pretty far gone at this point. On the bright side these new Swedish contracts enabling sex between partners will mean more work for you though right, eh Steven?

Luckily that was debunked, but Sweden will have a lot of problems with drunk sex, i.e. drunk women claiming they were raped by a drunk man after meeting at a bar or whatever. A very large number (perhaps the majority) of UK rape cases going through the courts are essentially that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 10, 2018, 07:56:16 pm
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-germany/germany-says-in-talks-about-possible-military-role-in-syria-idUSKCN1LQ124?

(https://i.imgur.com/X2P0z0g.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on September 10, 2018, 08:02:47 pm
Expect the full might of the German two operational platoons to deploy to Syria soon... Because that's about what they have left that still works.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Von Bergen on September 10, 2018, 08:08:09 pm
There will never be a yes to a military strike in our parliament atm, and without that no strike because constitution. The Option without the parliament mentoined is not given as it is held back for emergencys, not for Situations that need quick actions for the sake of efficency
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Ted on September 10, 2018, 08:46:59 pm
I really don't see how an attack on the Syrian regime could be constitutional. The Bundeswehr is only meant to defend, there's no way of explaining how it would be defending Germany by bombing Assad.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Von Bergen on September 10, 2018, 08:57:15 pm
I really don't see how an attack on the Syrian regime could be constitutional. The Bundeswehr is only meant to defend, there's no way of explaining how it would be defending Germany by bombing Assad.
There is in Fact a way in the Parlamentsbeteiligungs-Gesetz (ParlBG ("Participation of the parliament in the decision of military strikes law"  ), which is legitimized by the constitution, but that way is not given here.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: fruitocino on September 10, 2018, 10:33:50 pm
There will never be a yes to a military strike in our parliament atm, and without that no strike because constitution. The Option without the parliament mentoined is not given as it is held back for emergencys, not for Situations that need quick actions for the sake of efficency
I agree, it's a very different premise compared to our involvement in Afghanistan, especially considering all the parties already involved, even on opposing sides.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Von Bergen on September 10, 2018, 10:36:32 pm
There will never be a yes to a military strike in our parliament atm, and without that no strike because constitution. The Option without the parliament mentoined is not given as it is held back for emergencys, not for Situations that need quick actions for the sake of efficency
I agree, it's a very different premise compared to our involvement in Afghanistan, especially considering all the parties already involved, even on opposing sides.
Also Afghanistan was a NATO Mission, dont think this will happen with any syrian involvement
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Conway on September 10, 2018, 10:47:24 pm
I find it amusing, although not surprising that the German constitution has a clause about not bombing other countries lol.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: junedragon on September 11, 2018, 01:10:51 am
I really don't see how an attack on the Syrian regime could be constitutional. The Bundeswehr is only meant to defend, there's no way of explaining how it would be defending Germany by bombing Assad.

There was no way of explaining how invading Iraq would protect Americans from terrorists trained in afghanistan, hidden in Pakistan, and funded by Saudis but did Bush let that stop him? No!

Whats your excuse Germans smdh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 11, 2018, 01:37:25 am
Germany is a psychopathic country so I guess it's a good thing they don't currently have an army.

Makes no sense for them to think about bombing Syria given they don't even have the ability to do it. Unless of course Merkel isn't intending to send in the German Air Force, but is instead going to unilaterally volunteer other European countries to do it on her behalf. She already opened up their borders unilaterally so it wouldn't surprise me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Riddlez on September 11, 2018, 07:57:27 am
I really hope you're kidding
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: fruitocino on September 11, 2018, 08:06:07 am
I really hope you're kidding
Steven throwing bait out there, as per usual  ::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Duuring on September 11, 2018, 10:33:38 am
200 days left boys.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Von Bergen on September 11, 2018, 11:48:59 am
I really don't see how an attack on the Syrian regime could be constitutional. The Bundeswehr is only meant to defend, there's no way of explaining how it would be defending Germany by bombing Assad.

There was no way of explaining how invading Iraq would protect Americans from terrorists trained in afghanistan, hidden in Pakistan, and funded by Saudis but did Bush let that stop him? No!

Whats your excuse Germans smdh
In Germany the parliament would stop Merkel with help of the high court so...

Germany is a psychopathic country so I guess it's a good thing they don't currently have an army.

Makes no sense for them to think about bombing Syria given they don't even have the ability to do it. Unless of course Merkel isn't intending to send in the German Air Force, but is instead going to unilaterally volunteer other European countries to do it on her behalf. She already opened up their borders unilaterally so it wouldn't surprise me.
You must know a Lot about Germany  ::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on September 11, 2018, 02:31:21 pm
I really hope you're kidding

Which part isn't true?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 11, 2018, 04:39:59 pm
I really hope you're kidding

About which bit? Because it's absolutely true that Germany is a psychopathic country.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Von Bergen on September 11, 2018, 05:30:26 pm
I really hope you're kidding

About which bit? Because it's absolutely true that Germany is a psychopathic country.
How can one be so presumptuous that he is calling a whole country psychopathic...
Steve i have read a lot of your Posts here in the last months, and therefore i know that you know shit about germany. In my Opinion you know shit about politics at all. You are just posting random articles to trigger a discussion and afterwards pushing populist opinions.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 11, 2018, 05:55:42 pm
I really hope you're kidding

About which bit? Because it's absolutely true that Germany is a psychopathic country.
How can one be so presumptuous that he is calling a whole country psychopathic...

You misunderstand, I'm not saying all German people are psychopaths, I'm saying Germany as a country behaves psychopathically on the world stage and always has done.

Steve i have read a lot of your Posts here in the last months, and therefore i know that you know shit about germany. In my Opinion you know shit about politics at all. You are just posting random articles to trigger a discussion and afterwards pushing populist opinions.

I clearly know more about German foreign and economic policy than you do. If it's populist to despise what Germany is doing to Southern Europe then so be it. Your country is a disgrace and you should be deeply embarrassed about that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Von Bergen on September 11, 2018, 06:12:37 pm
I really hope you're kidding

About which bit? Because it's absolutely true that Germany is a psychopathic country.
How can one be so presumptuous that he is calling a whole country psychopathic...

You misunderstand, I'm not saying all German people are psychopaths, I'm saying Germany as a country behaves psychopathically on the world stage and always has done.

Steve i have read a lot of your Posts here in the last months, and therefore i know that you know shit about germany. In my Opinion you know shit about politics at all. You are just posting random articles to trigger a discussion and afterwards pushing populist opinions.

I clearly know more about German foreign and economic policy than you do. If it's populist to despise what Germany is doing to Southern Europe then so be it. Your country is a disgrace and you should be deeply embarrassed about that.
Oh i did in fact got you right there. To this post i could just repost my first one, but i think you know what i want to say.
I have no idea why you think you are capable of judging how much i know about politics (of my own fucking country) as i do Not participate in the conversation here on a regular, but i think it is clear that you said that as a response to your ego beeing hurt by what a said. But no worries, that is only human. The populist term was not meant to reffer to your Posts about Germany and southern europe, it was meant to reffer to (nearly) all of your Posts.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 11, 2018, 06:31:36 pm
This is like calling the US a physcopathic country...









Oh wait we are


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 11, 2018, 07:02:19 pm
Luckily the UK is the very essence of rule by logic and respect for fellow nations and states.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on September 11, 2018, 07:13:37 pm
Luckily the UK is the very essence of rule by logic and respect for fellow nations and states.
Duuring! You brexit watch your language!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: StevenChilton on September 11, 2018, 07:15:42 pm
You are just posting random articles to trigger a discussion and afterwards pushing populist opinions.

Oh i did in fact got you right there.

To keep things simple, this thread will be the one for all discussion related to politics.

No further questions m'lud.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Von Bergen on September 11, 2018, 07:35:27 pm
You are just posting random articles to trigger a discussion and afterwards pushing populist opinions.

Oh i did in fact got you right there.

To keep things simple, this thread will be the one for all discussion related to politics.

No further questions m'lud.
Oh Steve i am not here to tell you what you are doing is wrong in general, i am just saying you are doing it wrong.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on September 12, 2018, 01:25:23 pm
Dont bother Steven, its pointless to discuss with Bergen.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on September 12, 2018, 03:39:59 pm
Dont bother Steven, its pointless to discuss with Bergen.
today i walked through the city and suddenly i knew you are going to say something like that. If its pointless for you to discuss with me Caz, only because i dont agree with you in certain topics, then  i cant help you. I am saying what Steve does and says is wrong, nevertheless i wouldnt stop to talk to him because of that. There is no reason to stop the discussion only because of different oppinions, that is what any discussion is about.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on September 12, 2018, 03:59:25 pm
What exactly is the point of discussion when one refuses to change his own views
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on September 12, 2018, 04:43:10 pm
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17849868/eu-internet-copyright-reform-article-11-13-approved
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on September 12, 2018, 05:12:45 pm
What exactly is the point of discussion when one refuses to change his own views
Consensus or Compromise, or (at least) acceptance.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Golden. on September 12, 2018, 05:29:43 pm
What exactly is the point of discussion when one refuses to change his own views
Consensus or Compromise, or (at least) acceptance.

More like accepting that an opposing view can be possible and respect for that, rather than attempting to have one view 'win'.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Edwin on September 12, 2018, 06:12:16 pm
You are just posting random articles to trigger a discussion and afterwards pushing populist opinions.

That has been this thread's life support for about a year now
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 13, 2018, 03:43:08 pm
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17849868/eu-internet-copyright-reform-article-11-13-approved

I heard. I actually emailed a couple of MEPs from the Netherlands... not that it mattered, the Netherlands ovewhelmingly voted against, along with Sweden and another country...

The lobby is strong in this... the EP has no idea how much they're gonna break with this.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 13, 2018, 04:00:41 pm
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17849868/eu-internet-copyright-reform-article-11-13-approved

I heard. I actually emailed a couple of MEPs from the Netherlands... not that it mattered, the Netherlands ovewhelmingly voted against, along with Sweden and another country...

The lobby is strong in this... the EP has no idea how much they're gonna break with this.

So stupid, and why does the EU hate big tech so much anyway? The EU seriously under performs in the technology sector but you don't turns things around by being vindictive.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 13, 2018, 04:35:15 pm
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17849868/eu-internet-copyright-reform-article-11-13-approved

I heard. I actually emailed a couple of MEPs from the Netherlands... not that it mattered, the Netherlands ovewhelmingly voted against, along with Sweden and another country...

The lobby is strong in this... the EP has no idea how much they're gonna break with this.

So stupid, and why does the EU hate big tech so much anyway? The EU seriously under performs in the technology sector but you don't turns things around by being vindictive.

Who the fuck anyone was ever going to listen to the ENTERTAINMENT industry... but oh well since Brein has almsot the same authority as intelligence services in regards to investigating individuals without any sort of court orders this was to be expected.

Fucking gimps
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 14, 2018, 02:04:06 am
This is the guy who sponsored the bill through the EU 'Parliament':
Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dm67mY9X0AY-Qce.jpg:large)
[close]

Doesn't matter anyway, at the next election we can just vote out the EU Commission if we don't like what it's doing. Oh wait...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on September 14, 2018, 02:27:30 am
Love the jubilation at passing legislation on the internet that the people who invented the internet said is a bad idea.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 14, 2018, 08:08:55 pm
Mad Max is back on the scene
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bernier-peoples-party-canada-1.4823647
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 14, 2018, 10:31:14 pm
Mad Max is back on the scene
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bernier-peoples-party-canada-1.4823647

Total insanity. The only thing Bernier will achieve will be to split the anti-Trudeau vote, thereby keeping the Liberals in power after the next election. Bernier just comes across as a sore loser on an ego trip.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 15, 2018, 07:33:15 pm
Mad Max is back on the scene
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bernier-peoples-party-canada-1.4823647

Total insanity. The only thing Bernier will achieve will be to split the anti-Trudeau vote, thereby keeping the Liberals in power after the next election. Bernier just comes across as a sore loser on an ego trip.
100% True although he is the most interesting party leading right now imo. I'd say Trudeau was getting a second term any way you slice it but now its almost a guarantee.

Fingers crossed for a Peter MacKay government in 2022.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 15, 2018, 10:07:07 pm
Not sure Trudeau was guaranteed to win, especially after the India trip which changed everything imo. It probably would have ended up in Hung Parliament territory (or close to it) had Bernier's ego not got in the way. Still got another 13 months to go but yeah he's probably gonna win a second term. Really frustrating as a man who's as equally thick and vain as Trump really doesn't deserve to win again.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 15, 2018, 11:50:20 pm
Not sure Trudeau was guaranteed to win, especially after the India trip which changed everything imo. It probably would have ended up in Hung Parliament territory (or close to it) had Bernier's ego not got in the way. Still got another 13 months to go but yeah he's probably gonna win a second term. Really frustrating as a man who's as equally thick and vain as Trump really doesn't deserve to win again.
I only say he was guaranteed a second term mainly because no one knows who Andrew Scheer is and Trudeau remains fairly popular although not much as he once was. I'd agree though that he'd come back in with far less seats in any case. Had the Conservatives initially picked Bernier I feel that a Conservative government may have been plausible but most Canadians don't even know who Scheer is rn. Scheer, although seemingly well intentioned has got no fire in him. His main appeal to voters right now is that hes not Trudeau. It kinda feels like a terminal status quo in Canadian politics right now. Trudeau and Scheer just feel like lukewarm options, the NDP is never coming back into opposition, the Blocs falling apart. Provincial politics are currently more interesting than Federal by a long shot.

But like once Scheers is gone - Baird or MacKay lets go
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 16, 2018, 12:30:47 am
I guess I'm biased as I really like Scheer. He just comes across as a nice, family-orientated guy. He's also not vain or showy which is kinda refreshing.

Still hoping for a PM Jason Kenney at some point but he'll be Premier of Alberta well into the 2020s, so won't be returning to federal politics anytime soon.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Oatmeal on September 16, 2018, 03:42:58 am
Kap only started this shit cause he was about to get benched.  A backup QB that was jerked off to infinity by the franchise because he had one good game and led them to Super Bowl which they lost anyways. Fast forward a few years and he has had two losing seasons, abysmal yards thrown, and a frustrated, shrinking fanbase. "What ever shall I do to regain my relevancy oh lord?" cried the oversized afro.  The rest is history from there.  He used his standing in the NFL to stir some controversy and regain his audience, promptly splitting the country's opinion of him.  Also, only getting a fourth out of his contract probably sent him into a hissy fit.  The kid was shoved into the spotlight and he didn't know what to do without it.


Though, who cares about American sports outside of the states anyways, the rest of the world is living in bliss! While this "shithole" bulldozes itself a grave.
freezing cold take tbh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread - Brexit poll (#FSEXIT)
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 16, 2018, 03:48:34 am
Kap only started this shit cause he was about to get benched.  A backup QB that was jerked off to infinity by the franchise because he had one good game and led them to Super Bowl which they lost anyways. Fast forward a few years and he has had two losing seasons, abysmal yards thrown, and a frustrated, shrinking fanbase. "What ever shall I do to regain my relevancy oh lord?" cried the oversized afro.  The rest is history from there.  He used his standing in the NFL to stir some controversy and regain his audience, promptly splitting the country's opinion of him.  Also, only getting a fourth out of his contract probably sent him into a hissy fit.  The kid was shoved into the spotlight and he didn't know what to do without it.


Though, who cares about American sports outside of the states anyways, the rest of the world is living in bliss! While this "shithole" bulldozes itself a grave.
freezing cold take tbh
I let my hot cocoa get cold, now im mad

EDIT: Probably should have said earlier that he wasn't a half bad QB and could have rebounded. But with how it went down in 2016, he pretty much fucked himself.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 17, 2018, 08:11:45 pm
Whenever you feel like criticising the 1940s/50s generation for falling for 'big tobacco', remember that as a generation we're just as thick.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45545233
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 17, 2018, 08:53:48 pm
Except for the fact we know the health risks (and benefits) of cannabis to a much better degree than the 40/50s generation did about tabacco.

Anyway, how's the Brexit going? I haven't been following it except for the occasional article in the mainstream Dutch news.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 17, 2018, 09:50:18 pm
Except for the fact we know the health risks (and benefits) of cannabis to a much better degree than the 40/50s generation did about tabacco.

We really don't. For a start cannabis is a psychotropic drug and our understanding of the human brain is still fairly primitive. We're also at a point where the links between cannabis use and mental illness are starting to pile up.

Anyway, how's the Brexit going? I haven't been following it except for the occasional article in the mainstream Dutch news.

Withdrawal agreement has been finalised (at least between the technical teams) and agreed to in principle behind the scenes. May and Merkel sidelined Barnier and thrashed out a deal between London and Berlin.

Won't be made fully public for a while, a few politicians need to get their pictures taken and Barnier will want to eat a few more cakes at taxpayer's expense, but it's a done deal. May is trying to sell it to the Brits, Merkel is trying to sell it to Brussels. Only thing that can wreck it is either a) internal Tory party plotting (can't be ruled out) or b) some idiot in the EU Commission (probably Selmayr) trying to take on Berlin.

Next hurdle is that future trade arrangements need to be negotiated but that'll be post-March 2019.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on September 18, 2018, 02:52:35 pm
Except for the fact we know the health risks (and benefits) of cannabis to a much better degree than the 40/50s generation did about tabacco.

We really don't. For a start cannabis is a psychotropic drug and our understanding of the human brain is still fairly primitive. We're also at a point where the links between cannabis use and mental illness are starting to pile up.

Anyway, how's the Brexit going? I haven't been following it except for the occasional article in the mainstream Dutch news.

Withdrawal agreement has been finalised (at least between the technical teams) and agreed to in principle behind the scenes. May and Merkel sidelined Barnier and thrashed out a deal between London and Berlin.

Won't be made fully public for a while, a few politicians need to get their pictures taken and Barnier will want to eat a few more cakes at taxpayer's expense, but it's a done deal. May is trying to sell it to the Brits, Merkel is trying to sell it to Brussels. Only thing that can wreck it is either a) internal Tory party plotting (can't be ruled out) or b) some idiot in the EU Commission (probably Selmayr) trying to take on Berlin.

Next hurdle is that future trade arrangements need to be negotiated but that'll be post-March 2019.
Why not both the Tory party tearing itself apart from inside and the EU having what is in essence a march against Berlin. That should make 2019 very fun.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 18, 2018, 06:23:11 pm
I doubt the latter would happen. You'd have to be very brave (or very stupid) to take a stand against vital German interests in the EU.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Tharan on September 18, 2018, 09:00:07 pm
It's fun to think how we have not even left the EU yet and yet the housing market is already on a verge of a crash.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on September 18, 2018, 10:05:31 pm
It's fun to think how we have not even left the EU yet and yet the housing market is already on a verge of a crash.
But you will have the freedom to post memes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on September 18, 2018, 10:58:19 pm
By housing market crash do you mean a deflation of prices, or something else? I don't really follow Britbong or Euro politics.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on September 19, 2018, 09:11:57 am
By housing market crash do you mean a deflation of prices, or something else? I don't really follow Britbong or Euro politics.
Oh hi mr president
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 20, 2018, 11:19:04 pm
Quote
Withdrawal agreement has been finalised (at least between the technical teams) and agreed to in principle behind the scenes. May and Merkel sidelined Barnier and thrashed out a deal between London and Berlin.

Won't be made fully public for a while, a few politicians need to get their pictures taken and Barnier will want to eat a few more cakes at taxpayer's expense, but it's a done deal. May is trying to sell it to the Brits, Merkel is trying to sell it to Brussels. Only thing that can wreck it is either a) internal Tory party plotting (can't be ruled out) or b) some idiot in the EU Commission (probably Selmayr) trying to take on Berlin.

Yeah, okay. It's not that I don't want to believe you, it's just that everything I see in the news, everything I see being done in the Netherlands and everything I hear from friends who work for the national government is pretty much entirely opposed to what you say.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 20, 2018, 11:48:59 pm
Well, there's three possibilities:
a) This is just theatrics aimed at extracting some side concessions (probably over NI backstop)
b) May did not get the kind of guarantee she thought she did from Merkel
c) Merkel has betrayed May (either voluntarily or her hand has been forced by others)

It's probably 'a'. I'm fairly confident that 95-99% of Chequers will pass, there will be some kind of fudge on the remaining 1-5%, and a load of journalists will let us know by tweeting 'Breakthrough!' at 3am on a Sunday morning. This will be followed by gushing 'insider accounts' of how Michel Barnier single-handedly saved the Brexit process or some shit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 20, 2018, 11:51:43 pm
But that would mean EVERYBODY is on board and NOBODY is dropping ANYTHING. For one, that's impossible and borderline conspiracy theory, and for another, how do you know? An educated guess?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 21, 2018, 12:47:30 am
But that would mean EVERYBODY is on board and NOBODY is dropping ANYTHING. For one, that's impossible and borderline conspiracy theory, and for another, how do you know? An educated guess?

Not sure what you mean by 'everybody on board' etc. It's probably just several key leaders looking to get some concessions. The journalists will always react like that because they like a good 'last minute deal amid high drama' narrative. Barnier will obviously try and take a lot of credit because he wants to succeed Juncker. None of this is a conspiracy, it's just a prediction of how things will pan out.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 21, 2018, 09:20:50 am
Ah okay. So you're guessing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 21, 2018, 10:22:56 am
Ah okay. So you're guessing.

Based on past events, yes. We went through the exact same thing with the migrant deal, Greece, Euro bailouts, Lisbon Treaty, etc. Always high drama followed by last minute deal with everyone trying to take credit. Some of the positions that EU leaders are coming up with ('Norway option or nothing!', 'Why can't they just vote again?!?!' etc) are too stupid to be real.

Just Google: european union "marathon talks" or european union "breakthrough" from different year ranges and you'll see what I mean. Same script every time.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on September 22, 2018, 09:35:16 am
(https://i.redd.it/zetda63v2on11.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 22, 2018, 01:15:39 pm
So I just got ID'd in Tesco trying to buy an energy drink. I think we have bigger problems than Brexit on our hands.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 22, 2018, 03:34:05 pm
So I just got ID'd in Tesco trying to buy an energy drink. I think we have bigger problems than Brexit on our hands.

Energy drinks are as bad as smoking.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: AeroNinja on September 22, 2018, 03:38:32 pm
Hell I'm not going to fight. Fuck off with conscription. They can shoot a bullet through my head I don't care.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 22, 2018, 05:38:00 pm
Calm yourself keyboard warrior. We both know you'd shit your pants just before they'd pull the trigger.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: bobertini on September 22, 2018, 05:55:59 pm
Hell I'm not going to fight. Fuck off with conscription. They can shoot a bullet through my head I don't care.

You have troubles working out what nationality you are, let alone that sort of decision.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 22, 2018, 07:53:05 pm
Energy drinks are as bad as smoking.

Relax Mr Hitchens, it was only a one-off.

However, will age restrictions really prove effective at combating obesity in this manner, given that in 2017, 1 in 4 British adults and 3/10 minors (aged 2-15) were considered obese? IDs won't deter consenting adults or bad parents.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: AeroNinja on September 22, 2018, 08:26:20 pm
Calm yourself keyboard warrior. We both know you'd shit your pants just before they'd pull the trigger.
Why should I be afraid of dying? Everyone dies. It's just a matter of time. If you get a bullet in your head, you won't feel any pain. It's a split-second and you are no more.

If you want to take up arms if they bring conscription in again and shoot people who leave family behind, well you do that then. I can't get it over my heart killing people.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 22, 2018, 09:24:18 pm
Energy drinks are as bad as smoking.

Relax Mr Hitchens, it was only a one-off.

However, will age restrictions really prove effective at combating obesity in this manner, given that in 2017, 1 in 4 British adults and 3/10 minors (aged 2-15) were considered obese? IDs won't deter consenting adults or bad parents.

That's actually a big compliment since PH is my idol  ;D

IDs probably won't do much to deter people since these things are quite addictive, and most of it is due to terrible parenting anyway. But if you attack the problem from as many sides as people and build up marginal gains across the board then you'll see progress.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on September 23, 2018, 02:49:12 am
Calm yourself keyboard warrior. We both know you'd shit your pants just before they'd pull the trigger.
Why should I be afraid of dying? Everyone dies. It's just a matter of time. If you get a bullet in your head, you won't feel any pain. It's a split-second and you are no more.

If you want to take up arms if they bring conscription in again and shoot people who leave family behind, well you do that then. I can't get it over my heart killing people.
Freedom doesn't come for free my friend.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 23, 2018, 09:20:45 pm
If you want to take up arms if they bring conscription in again and shoot people who leave family behind,

1. I wouldn't have to take up arms in a conscription event.
2. I'd rather shoot them than they shoot me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: AeroNinja on September 23, 2018, 09:53:51 pm
Simple, if you don't go to war you can't get shot. Life isn't a movie where you can be a hero and save, shoot everyone you want.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 23, 2018, 09:56:19 pm
Simple, if you don't go to war you can't get shot.

Uh...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: AeroNinja on September 23, 2018, 10:01:51 pm
Simple, if you don't go to war you can't get shot.

Uh...
Uh... what? Whats the point in getting conscripted and not go to war...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 23, 2018, 10:12:55 pm
Simple, if you don't go to war you can't get shot. Life isn't a movie where you can be a hero and save, shoot everyone you want.

With just my two years in the academy I cannot say to be a walking oracle, but you just ate the fucking cake on not knowing how an actual army works and what it means to be a soldier...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 23, 2018, 10:53:16 pm
Simple, if you don't go to war you can't get shot.

That's probably true if you're a Brit or living in NA/Oceania. If you're a continental European on the other hand...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on September 23, 2018, 10:57:28 pm
Simple, if you don't go to war you can't get shot.

That's probably true if you're a Brit or living in NA/Oceania. If you're a continental European on the other hand...
as a brit you are probably getting stabbed true.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: AeroNinja on September 24, 2018, 07:03:51 am
Simple, if you don't go to war you can't get shot. Life isn't a movie where you can be a hero and save, shoot everyone you want.

With just my two years in the academy I cannot say to be a walking oracle, but you just ate the fucking cake on not knowing how an actual army works and what it means to be a soldier...

What it means to be a soldier? Do you know what the americans besides shooting terrorists did? Pissing on innocent dead bodies, probably also raped a few. But oh yes media doesnt show this. And not only the Americans btw. There is no honor in being a freakin soldier friend. Its all about killing. And yeah you can come with, but what if your army doesnt protect you? I dont need someone to protect me so he has to kill others.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: fruitocino on September 24, 2018, 08:11:45 am
That's probably true if you're a Brit or living in NA/Oceania. If you're a continental European on the other hand...
Including the US in that might be a bit of a stretch  :D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on September 24, 2018, 08:29:33 am
I guess since we're on the subject, I voted no but not really because it's "against freedoms"; rather, it would be a disgrace to fight for our current Yankee empire.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Gi on September 24, 2018, 01:31:11 pm
Simple, if you don't go to war you can't get shot. Life isn't a movie where you can be a hero and save, shoot everyone you want.

With just my two years in the academy I cannot say to be a walking oracle, but you just ate the fucking cake on not knowing how an actual army works and what it means to be a soldier...

What it means to be a soldier? Do you know what the americans besides shooting terrorists did? Pissing on innocent dead bodies, probably also raped a few. But oh yes media doesnt show this. And not only the Americans btw. There is no honor in being a freakin soldier friend. Its all about killing. And yeah you can come with, but what if your army doesnt protect you? I dont need someone to protect me so he has to kill others.
Are you 12?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 24, 2018, 06:03:21 pm
What it means to be a soldier? Do you know what the americans besides shooting terrorists did? Pissing on innocent dead bodies, probably also raped a few. But oh yes media doesnt show this. And not only the Americans btw. There is no honor in being a freakin soldier friend. Its all about killing. And yeah you can come with, but what if your army doesnt protect you? I dont need someone to protect me so he has to kill others.

I think this debate already happened when the poll was first set, but I'll bite anyway:

a) The incident in 2012 was widely covered by the western media (including the subsequent "outrage" in the middle east), and the Marines involved were held accountable for their actions
b) You don't have to take a role on the front lines during national service - there are many pacifist support roles available

In reality, you'd either answer the call of duty or you'd be arrested.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fungus on September 24, 2018, 08:25:56 pm
Props go to em
Respect go to em
Thanks to the soldiers for doing what makes others lose their composhaaar
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on September 24, 2018, 10:45:19 pm
Simple, if you don't go to war you can't get shot. Life isn't a movie where you can be a hero and save, shoot everyone you want.

With just my two years in the academy I cannot say to be a walking oracle, but you just ate the fucking cake on not knowing how an actual army works and what it means to be a soldier...

What it means to be a soldier? Do you know what the americans besides shooting terrorists did? Pissing on innocent dead bodies, probably also raped a few. But oh yes media doesnt show this. And not only the Americans btw. There is no honor in being a freakin soldier friend. Its all about killing. And yeah you can come with, but what if your army doesnt protect you? I dont need someone to protect me so he has to kill others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on September 25, 2018, 04:13:25 pm
Rod Rosenstein seems to hanging by a thread now. Chaos in the Trump administration as per usual.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Edwin on September 25, 2018, 04:57:49 pm
W-we'll get em this time!!1
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 25, 2018, 05:34:33 pm
Don't worry guys the blue wave will save America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on September 25, 2018, 07:57:56 pm
In similiar news: The entire General Assembly of the UN laughed in Trump's face.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 25, 2018, 08:18:59 pm
In similiar news: The entire General Assembly of the UN laughed in Trump's face.
I'm surprised no one laughed at the claim that the U.S has been committed to stopping interference with small countries since 1823. It kind of glazes over the whole cold war policy of the U.S.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 25, 2018, 10:48:17 pm
I like how the US has 800 bases around the world but bitches and cries when China builds an island.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Steinmann on September 26, 2018, 03:10:33 am
We are a band of brothers and native to the soil, Fighting for the property we gained by honest toil, And when our rights were threatened, the cry rose near and far, Hurrah! for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 26, 2018, 04:02:21 am
We are a band of brothers and native to the soil, Fighting for the property we gained by honest toil, And when our rights were threatened, the cry rose near and far, Hurrah! for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star
I love the Republic of West-Florida
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 28, 2018, 03:06:16 am
Anybody actually buy this Kavanaugh shit?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on September 28, 2018, 06:23:03 am
Anybody actually buy this Kavanaugh shit?

Doesnt know the location, circumstances (how she got there/left, who she was with, whose house it was, etc.), or even the fucking year of "the most traumatic experience" of her life. But she is now sure it was Kavanaugh. Right.

The only 4 people she claimed she knows for sure attended this party (including Kavanaugh and a woman who she described as a lifelong friend) have no recollection of the party she describes.

Two additional potential witnesses testified under penalty of perjury that they have no recollection of the party she describes.

She never mentioned Kavanaugh to her therapist and the notes are full of inconsistencies to her current story (4 boys or 2 involved, she was in her late teens or maybe 15 now, etc)

If anyone actually believes this garbage I dont even know what to say
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 28, 2018, 03:13:59 pm
As a lawyer I can tell you that the Kavanaugh allegations wouldn't stand up in court (at least not in a British one). You can't prove an offence was even committed given it's 'he said, she said' let alone whether Brett Kavanaugh is the guilty party. In such cases 'dubia in meliorem partem interpretari debent' applies, i.e. if there's insufficient doubt then a conviction cannot follow. To say there's sufficient doubt in this case is putting it mildly.

-Does Kavanaugh have a history of this behaviour? No.
-Is there any corroborating evidence for Ford's testimony? No.
-Did she report this at the time? No.
-Has Ford's testimony remained consistent? No.

Before you even consider the politicisation of it all the allegations are already shaky.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on September 28, 2018, 04:51:31 pm
Looks great when you finger out someone you describe as a lifelong friend as being a witness to support your claim then they deny any recollection of the parry she claims happened
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on September 28, 2018, 07:07:09 pm
America is broken.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 28, 2018, 07:10:19 pm
America is broken.
gib solution pls
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 28, 2018, 08:30:54 pm
America is broken.
gib solution pls
Get a monarch and parliament like all the cool countries.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on September 28, 2018, 09:13:25 pm
Solutions, you say?

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/JUrwyQD.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on September 30, 2018, 04:58:55 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV6mVmAVQU4
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 01, 2018, 10:36:40 pm
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV6mVmAVQU4
[close]

Fell in love with a dictator that would rather starve his entire population than give up an ounce of power.
I'd sure be proud to have this man as my president.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on October 01, 2018, 11:37:05 pm
Harris 2020
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 02, 2018, 02:06:03 am
Dunno about you, but I'm with #NobodyCares2020

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on October 02, 2018, 02:51:45 am
Dunno about you, but I'm with #NobodyCares2020
America will pull through. I believe! :D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 02, 2018, 08:46:48 pm
Which candidate are people planning on voting for?  ;)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-election-names-factbox/a-successor-to-juncker-names-in-frame-for-top-eu-job-idUSKCN1MC259
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on October 03, 2018, 04:43:21 pm
I love how they divide it into three sections, Conservative, Socialist, and Liberal. Am I the only one who feels it dumbs down these candidates into these niche boxes and presents them in a biased way to the average reader?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Nero_ on October 03, 2018, 04:46:36 pm
RUTTE GOAT
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on October 03, 2018, 04:51:02 pm
RUTTE GOAT
From what I gather he's alright, are you a VVD voter?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: yecgga on October 03, 2018, 04:54:17 pm
why there's still racist and religious people in 2018?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 03, 2018, 05:38:42 pm
I love how they divide it into three sections, Conservative, Socialist, and Liberal. Am I the only one who feels it dumbs down these candidates into these niche boxes and presents them in a biased way to the average reader?

It corresponds to the EU Parliament groupings so it's not really dumbed down. Basically each group nominates a candidate, and after the elections the group with the most MEPs *should* get to install their candidate as head of the EU Commission.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on October 03, 2018, 05:43:32 pm
I love how they divide it into three sections, Conservative, Socialist, and Liberal. Am I the only one who feels it dumbs down these candidates into these niche boxes and presents them in a biased way to the average reader?

It corresponds to the EU Parliament groupings so it's not really dumbed down. Basically each group nominates a candidate, and after the elections the group with the most MEPs *should* get to install their candidate as head of the EU Commission.
I thought they were divided into the "Commission" and the Opposition not like Conservative, Liberal, and Socialist.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 03, 2018, 09:48:01 pm
I love how they divide it into three sections, Conservative, Socialist, and Liberal. Am I the only one who feels it dumbs down these candidates into these niche boxes and presents them in a biased way to the average reader?

It corresponds to the EU Parliament groupings so it's not really dumbed down. Basically each group nominates a candidate, and after the elections the group with the most MEPs *should* get to install their candidate as head of the EU Commission.
I thought they were divided into the "Commission" and the Opposition not like Conservative, Liberal, and Socialist.

Nah it doesn't really work like a traditional Parliamentary system. Most votes go through with huge majorities, and it's only since 2014 that the EU Parliament has had what you could call an "opposition" (basically a sizeable contingent of anti-EU MEPs).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 03, 2018, 11:36:27 pm
Which candidate are people planning on voting for?  ;)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-election-names-factbox/a-successor-to-juncker-names-in-frame-for-top-eu-job-idUSKCN1MC259

Well you do indirecly vote for the candidate of the coalition that your party belongs to.
But the head of the European Comission is such an important role it should have an election of it's own.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 04, 2018, 01:08:08 am
Which candidate are people planning on voting for?  ;)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-election-names-factbox/a-successor-to-juncker-names-in-frame-for-top-eu-job-idUSKCN1MC259

Well you do indirecly vote for the candidate of the coalition that your party belongs to.
But the head of the European Comission is such an important role it should have an election of it's own.

Precisely, it's too far removed from voters. Of course if you did have direct elections then you're essentially creating the post of 'President of the European Union', and certain member states that are used to being in control  *cough* Germany *cough* might not like that. You'd also put rocket boosters up the eurosceptic cause.

But the biggest problem is that Europe isn't politically, culturally or economically homogeneous enough to have such a position. What happens if someone, say from Eastern Europe, wins by running on a traditionalist platform? I'd quite like that but I sense most Western Europeans wouldn't. What if it's a Southern European who run's on an anti-austerity platform which Germany would de facto end up paying for? Well, now they have a mandate to meddle....
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on October 04, 2018, 09:40:14 am
Which candidate are people planning on voting for?  ;)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-election-names-factbox/a-successor-to-juncker-names-in-frame-for-top-eu-job-idUSKCN1MC259

Well you do indirecly vote for the candidate of the coalition that your party belongs to.
But the head of the European Comission is such an important role it should have an election of it's own.

Precisely, it's too far removed from voters. Of course if you did have direct elections then you're essentially creating the post of 'President of the European Union', and certain member states that are used to being in control  *cough* Germany *cough* might not like that. You'd also put rocket boosters up the eurosceptic cause.

But the biggest problem is that Europe isn't politically, culturally or economically homogeneous enough to have such a position. What happens if someone, say from Eastern Europe, wins by running on a traditionalist platform? I'd quite like that but I sense most Western Europeans wouldn't. What if it's a Southern European who run's on an anti-austerity platform which Germany would de facto end up paying for? Well, now they have a mandate to meddle....
The EU is honestly such a bureaucratic nightmare it's hilarious. Like why are there seperate elections for the EU parliament instead of just staffing it according to the proportions of national elections? Fucking hell it triggers me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 04, 2018, 11:18:52 am
So you think the system is bad but you give arguments why it should not be changed? Okay.

Quote
Like why are there seperate elections for the EU parliament instead of just staffing it according to the proportions of national elections?

Is that a serious question? Because you literally say the EU is a bureaucratic nightmare and then argue for more bureaucracy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on October 04, 2018, 11:23:04 am
So you think the system is bad but you give arguments why it should not be changed? Okay.

Quote
Like why are there seperate elections for the EU parliament instead of just staffing it according to the proportions of national elections?

Is that a serious question? Because you literally say the EU is a bureaucratic nightmare and then argue for more bureaucracy.
Having one election instead of two sounds like a lot less bureaucracy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 04, 2018, 11:30:03 am
Organizing an election is really not that hard once the structure is already in place. Letting parties pick people to take seats in the European Parliament is a technocratic wet dream and is precisely what will make it even more of a bureaucratic fortress.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on October 04, 2018, 11:32:07 am
Organizing an election is really not that hard once the structure is already in place. Letting parties pick people to take seats in the European Parliament is a technocratic wet dream and is precisely what will make it even more of a bureaucratic fortress.
I'm struggling to see your point, are you saying two elections is less of a bureaucratic nightmare than one?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 04, 2018, 05:03:43 pm
So you think the system is bad but you give arguments why it should not be changed? Okay.

Because changing it would make it even worse. The EU isn't homogeneous enough to follow the NZ-AUS model, its ambitions are too big to simply be an intergovernmental conference of European countries, so it has to have a central authority like the EU Commission that can reign states in.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 10, 2018, 09:57:21 pm
I really hope Brazil ends up electing Haddad.. I get that there is severe dismay in the country but Bolsonaro have been speaking out as pro dictatorship pro torture and very anti LGBTQ rights.
"the error of the dictatorship was that it tortured, but did not kill." - Bolsonaro regarding the military dictatorship Brazil had from the 1960's to 1980's.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on October 10, 2018, 10:53:47 pm
I really hope Brazil ends up electing Haddad.. I get that there is severe dismay in the country but Bolsonaro have been speaking out as pro dictatorship pro torture and very anti LGBTQ rights.
"the error of the dictatorship was that it tortured, but did not kill." - Bolsonaro regarding the military dictatorship Brazil had from the 1960's to 1980's.
Haddad would stand a better chance if half his party wasn't behind bars. 
Bolsonaro is a crazed motherfucker but the PT is despised all across the board, no thanks to Lula of course. Oh and that knife incident really didn't help.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 14, 2018, 09:12:15 pm
In 30 years time, after Cannabis has ravaged Western societies in the same way tobacco did, people will look back and ask how politicians were stupid enough to first decriminalise and then legalise it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6273159/UK-hospitals-treat-125-000-cannabis-users-past-five-years.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on October 14, 2018, 09:26:29 pm
Hey, so, we have a brexit agreement. How are we all feeling about it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 14, 2018, 10:12:29 pm
Hey, so, we have a brexit agreement. How are we all feeling about it?

Not quite yet, both sides want a bit more drama first. Also Johnson is going to launch a leadership challenge so it might not even go through on the UK side.



Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 15, 2018, 03:39:38 pm
I really hope Brazil ends up electing Haddad.. I get that there is severe dismay in the country but Bolsonaro have been speaking out as pro dictatorship pro torture and very anti LGBTQ rights.
"the error of the dictatorship was that it tortured, but did not kill." - Bolsonaro regarding the military dictatorship Brazil had from the 1960's to 1980's.
Haddad would stand a better chance if half his party wasn't behind bars. 
Bolsonaro is a crazed motherfucker but the PT is despised all across the board, no thanks to Lula of course. Oh and that knife incident really didn't help.

I'd rather have a corrupt fucker than a lunatic that could destroy muh democracy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on October 15, 2018, 11:13:40 pm
Elizabeth Warren revealed to be 1/1000 Native American. Imagine my shock
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on October 19, 2018, 12:16:13 am
Elizabeth Warren revealed to be 1/1000 Native American. Imagine my shock

I am so sick and tired of all these identitarians.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on October 19, 2018, 08:15:09 pm
I really hope Brazil ends up electing Haddad.. I get that there is severe dismay in the country but Bolsonaro have been speaking out as pro dictatorship pro torture and very anti LGBTQ rights.
"the error of the dictatorship was that it tortured, but did not kill." - Bolsonaro regarding the military dictatorship Brazil had from the 1960's to 1980's.
Haddad would stand a better chance if half his party wasn't behind bars. 
Bolsonaro is a crazed motherfucker but the PT is despised all across the board, no thanks to Lula of course. Oh and that knife incident really didn't help.

I'd rather have a corrupt fucker than a lunatic that could destroy muh democracy.
“The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.” -A Mysterious Man
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on October 26, 2018, 08:26:11 pm
If the Dems can't capture the House after all this, then they are truly uninspired brats.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 28, 2018, 11:45:58 pm
Oh god, Bolsonaro won..
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on October 29, 2018, 12:19:09 am
Favelas and a good fourth of the Brazilian population gonna go pop.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on October 29, 2018, 02:11:34 am
Favelas and a good fourth of the Brazilian population gonna go pop.
I think giving the police more power to kill will probably help but then again Brazil is already the leader in terms of police kill ratio.

I'm personally more interested to see how Brazil will do if they bring back gun ownership rights to citizens and whether it will lower or raise the crime rate.

Edit:
Oh god, Bolsonaro won..
Yeah, let Brazil reelect the party that totally fucking destroyed the country. Good one m8
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on October 29, 2018, 03:53:36 pm
Merkel quitting as CDU leader in December, thank god, but says she wants to remain as Chancellor until 2021...unlikely they'd allow that surely?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPIdRJlzERo
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on November 04, 2018, 12:22:28 am
Merkel quitting as CDU leader in December, thank god, but says she wants to remain as Chancellor until 2021...unlikely they'd allow that surely?

Unfortunately her legacy will continue to haunt Europe for many more years yet :(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on November 05, 2018, 08:52:40 pm
Recently watched this video and thought I would share.

https://youtu.be/_J2VwFDV4-g
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 05, 2018, 10:59:57 pm
'Murica.

We went over this in the evolution of warfare. Troop quality took a massive shit in the years of thr Vietnam war for the U.S.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on November 06, 2018, 01:56:19 pm
So the Republican nominee for governor of Georgia is not only running but also oversees the election? Nice meme.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on November 06, 2018, 04:30:19 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRxue5PLaTU

Remember, remember the 14th of June.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on November 06, 2018, 07:28:30 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRxue5PLaTU

Remember, remember the 14th of June.
Took me way too long to realize this wasn't in London Ontario
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on November 06, 2018, 09:53:31 pm
So the Republican nominee for governor of Georgia is not only running but also oversees the election? Nice meme.

In Kentucky, our Democrat Secretary of State Alison Grimes ran in a campaign and (though probably just technically) oversaw the election, too. It's not an uncommon thing, especially in States that have plural executives (ie. the chief positions of the Executive branch are elected separately)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 06, 2018, 10:22:38 pm
So was she also scrapping thousands of people of voters lists?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on November 06, 2018, 10:30:08 pm
I don't want Stacey Abrams as our Governor and I hope Kemp wins. I want Kemp to win because he actually wants to support the rural areas of Georgia that are struggling.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on November 06, 2018, 10:32:01 pm
If Texas flips it will be quite monumental and perhaps a sign that the millenials need to be courted more by Republicans.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 06, 2018, 10:41:08 pm
Two weeks ago I thought Beto was gonna plow through. Last week I thought Cruz had this in the bag. 
Now I really don't fucking know :/


UPDATE: early exit polls show one big ass blue wave incoming, dunno for sure.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 07, 2018, 01:01:08 am
Yawn. Democrats will make big gains. Senior Republicans will talk smack about Trump. We'll then be subjected to months of obsessive analysis about how it's the end for Trump etc. He'll then win again in 2020.

I don't really care what happens, though I do hope that Hispanic socialist woman gets given a position of responsibility that involves some kind of budget. Will be funny to see a media darling flounder.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on November 07, 2018, 02:23:25 am
538 now has republicans at 40-60% chance to hold the house (up from 12% pre voting)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 07, 2018, 02:31:11 am
538 now has republicans at 40-60% chance to hold the house (up from 12% pre voting)
Indeed, they had Dems a few hours ago at 90%. Now its shrunk to barely 50%.  While I won't doubt that they will make gains, the polls are once again showing ineptitude.


EDIT: It seems to be bouncing back in the Dem's favor, but it keeps going back and forth so there can be no solid prediction at the moment.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on November 07, 2018, 03:35:12 am
Ye im sticking with my prediction of republican senate and dem house. A lot closer than I expected so far in the house voting though.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 07, 2018, 04:10:34 am
Yawn. Democrats will make big gains. Senior Republicans will talk smack about Trump. We'll then be subjected to months of obsessive analysis about how it's the end for Trump etc. He'll then win again in 2020.

I don't really care what happens, though I do hope that Hispanic socialist woman gets given a position of responsibility that involves some kind of budget. Will be funny to see a media darling flounder.
Cortez? She is going to win easily, which is pretty predictable considering the attention she's getting.  I expect interesting statements from her when it comes to revenue bills and whatnot.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 07, 2018, 04:56:49 am
Aight so for the most part the rednecks are prevailing but the Dems now have a platform for their tirades that can actually work.

Quick summary:

Dems get a shit ton of seats and now prepare for subpoena-suplex city.

Pelosi finally gets her gavel back

Florida does its typical stupid shit and Gillum gets screwed by a solid inch (also reinstates former felon voting rights for 1.5 mil)

Beto puts up a good fight but still loses to the Zodiac Killer (expecting this dude to run in 2020 with Harris and Biden)

Abrams is losing by a sizable margin and her chances are shrinking every second

Colorado now has a gay governor

Repubs get a senator in Indiana

Kris Kobach gets whacked in Kansas and loses his governorship

Cortez wins easily and will be the youngest woman in the House of Reps

First Native American and Muslim women to be elected (I guess this is important?)


All in all, most definitely a win for the Democrats, but still lackluster considering the mass-mobilization of young voters and the ridiculous amount of cash raised.  Probably the only think I'm not looking forward to is Pelosi's brain freezes every few seconds (and as the speaker no less).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on November 07, 2018, 05:33:38 am
Florida does its typical stupid shit and Gillum gets screwed by a solid inch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uweoegT29Cs
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on November 07, 2018, 01:24:21 pm
Thank god Abrams lost.  ;D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Thunderstormer on November 07, 2018, 01:45:28 pm
not too suprised by the outcome.  i figured dems would get the house, and reps keep the senate.  there were a few races that i thought would go one way and didn't, but that is the nature of voting. 


All in all, most definitely a win for the Democrats, but still lackluster considering the mass-mobilization of young voters and the ridiculous amount of cash raised.  Probably the only think I'm not looking forward to is Pelosi's brain freezes every few seconds (and as the speaker no less).

Gerrymandering at its finest.  both sides do it.  though the reps had the advantage of winning their landslide victory in the same year that the census was taken in 2010.(which means districts are redrawn not too long later to be more in their favor)   

the 2020 election will have more importance on that alone, and that is before we get into the presidential race.   and i believe next cycle, the reps senators will have to go through what many of the dems had to go through this cycle.   being in a state that is opposite of them.  should be interesting next 2 years. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on November 07, 2018, 08:08:02 pm
Well at least I can rest easy knowing that literally nothing will be done by the government for the next two years.

I'm extremely impressed Ted Cruz won but at the same time I think this means Bloomberg won't be the 2020 candidate which makes me sad. I respect his financial responsibility and wouldn't mind him winning as the Democratic candidate.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on November 07, 2018, 08:38:26 pm
The Michigan elections went as I expected. Duck Debbie Stabenow

Also weed is legal now I guess
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 07, 2018, 08:53:09 pm
Well at least I can rest easy knowing that literally nothing will be done by the government for the next two years.

I'm extremely impressed Ted Cruz won but at the same time I think this means Bloomberg won't be the 2020 candidate which makes me sad. I respect his financial responsibility and wouldn't mind him winning as the Democratic candidate.
You certain the DNC nominee will be Beto?  He has a good chance but is most likely going to contend with the likes of Biden and Harris, so Bloomberg isn't out of the question.

Now what would be entertaining is Mike using his massive financial assets to form a centrist/classical liberal party that gains steam.  But thats so far fetched that Jill Stein has a better chance of getting 3% of the vote in another presidential bid.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on November 07, 2018, 09:27:20 pm
Well at least I can rest easy knowing that literally nothing will be done by the government for the next two years.

I'm extremely impressed Ted Cruz won but at the same time I think this means Bloomberg won't be the 2020 candidate which makes me sad. I respect his financial responsibility and wouldn't mind him winning as the Democratic candidate.
You certain the DNC nominee will be Beto?  He has a good chance but is most likely going to contend with the likes of Biden and Harris, so Bloomberg isn't out of the question.

Now what would be entertaining is Mike using his massive financial assets to form a centrist/classical liberal party that gains steam.  But thats so far fetched that Jill Stein has a better chance of getting 3% of the vote in another presidential bid.
If anything it would have the same effect as Teddy Roosevelt's ill-fated Bull-Moose (Progressive) Party which only weakened the Republicans allowing for a Democrat to win for the first time in decades. I think Beto resonates with young people and it seems like the D's are changing their appeal as less of that of the working/union class and more of that of young voters. It's a bold move and perhaps shows that Unions/traditional energy jobs will lean Republican from now on, which they have lately.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 08, 2018, 02:09:52 pm
It's still amazing how the Republicans lost the house and Trump claims a 'historic republican victory'... granted, the reps weren't defeated, but it certainly wasn't a victory let alone historic.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Oatmeal on November 08, 2018, 04:12:55 pm
trump is fucked
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 08, 2018, 05:02:30 pm
Schiff and Hoyer are indicating that impeachment proceedings are looming, and Mueller is more than likely to reveal his findings in the next few months. Not looking good for The Donald.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on November 08, 2018, 07:28:39 pm
A Republican senate most likely means that Trump won't be impeached unless he does something crazy (which you never know at this point) but it will badly affect his running chances in 2020.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on November 08, 2018, 11:12:01 pm
Impeachment lies solely with the House; the Senate is responsible for actual criminal charges after the fact.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 09, 2018, 12:07:17 am
Yeah impeachment is only half the picture. Bill got impeached but was acquitted by the entirety of Democratic senate. 
Considering that Mr. NoSexualRelations was a far more agreeable president, I suspect it wouldn't take much at this point for Trump to tick off some of the Republicans and see him out of 1600 Penn.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 09, 2018, 01:34:57 am
Yeah impeachment is only half the picture. Bill got impeached but was acquitted by the entirety of Democratic senate. 
Considering that Mr. NoSexualRelations was a far more agreeable president, I suspect it wouldn't take much at this point for Trump to tick off some of the Republicans and see him out of 1600 Penn.

Hmmm, define 'agreeable'.....with Clinton there was a scandal every few months on everything from sex to money. Not to mention some suspicious deaths thrown into the mix too.

Clinton is a psychopath, Trump's a narcissist. Out of the two it's the former that's the greater danger.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 09, 2018, 02:58:14 am
Yeah impeachment is only half the picture. Bill got impeached but was acquitted by the entirety of Democratic senate. 
Considering that Mr. NoSexualRelations was a far more agreeable president, I suspect it wouldn't take much at this point for Trump to tick off some of the Republicans and see him out of 1600 Penn.

Hmmm, define 'agreeable'.....with Clinton there was a scandal every few months on everything from sex to money. Not to mention some suspicious deaths thrown into the mix too.

Clinton is a psychopath, Trump's a narcissist. Out of the two it's the former that's the greater danger.
I am mostly referring to Clinton not having a sizable portion of his own party either feuding with him or being uncooperative, including some bipartisan support here and there. Granted he was playing off the whole "New Democrats" thing and whatnot but still.  Trump can probably keep the majority of the party on his side since they really don't want to hand the power over to the Dems, that isn't to say though that Trump lacks a solid base.  As for Billy Boy, I wouldn't go as far as saying he is a psychopath, but he was shady for sure. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on November 09, 2018, 04:51:05 pm
I just hope Democrats can get an adequate presidential candidate that can beat Trump in 2020.

Yeah impeachment is only half the picture. Bill got impeached but was acquitted by the entirety of Democratic senate. 
Considering that Mr. NoSexualRelations was a far more agreeable president, I suspect it wouldn't take much at this point for Trump to tick off some of the Republicans and see him out of 1600 Penn.

Hmmm, define 'agreeable'.....with Clinton there was a scandal every few months on everything from sex to money. Not to mention some suspicious deaths thrown into the mix too.

Clinton is a psychopath, Trump's a narcissist. Out of the two it's the former that's the greater danger.

Well Trump might be a traitor to so..
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 09, 2018, 08:26:29 pm
So how's that wall doing?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 09, 2018, 09:29:59 pm
So how's that wall doing?
McConnell is pushing for funding but it's probably never going to happen :p
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 09, 2018, 10:13:46 pm
Quote
President Macron of France has just suggested that Europe build its own military in order to protect itself from the U.S., China and Russia. Very insulting, but perhaps Europe should first pay its fair share of NATO, which the U.S. subsidizes greatly!

So
1. Trump thinks we don't have a militairy? I know, splitting hairs here, but he really says 'build' instead of 'build up' or 'expand'.
2. He apparantly thinks that the geographical continent is some form of a political entity.
3. Wait, we get money from the US to pay for our militairy? Sweet.
4. Somehow spending money on our (apparantly as of yet practically non-existent militairy) is not the same thing as investing in NATO.

I'm just continuously confused at this point.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on November 09, 2018, 10:32:53 pm
You’re just really bad at reading English TBH
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 09, 2018, 10:39:21 pm
Yeah, that might be a plausible answer to 1, perhaps even to 4, but really not to 2 and 3.

If I were to dive into this statement more serious, I could say something about the already considerable French militairy power and their involvement, more unilaterally than not, in various conflicts, or I could also say something about the fact that Trump expended the militairy budget. But I think I'll just accept the joke for what it is for the next two years. Who knows, perhaps even six.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on November 09, 2018, 10:39:55 pm
Yeah impeachment is only half the picture. Bill got impeached but was acquitted by the entirety of Democratic senate. 
Considering that Mr. NoSexualRelations was a far more agreeable president, I suspect it wouldn't take much at this point for Trump to tick off some of the Republicans and see him out of 1600 Penn.

I think that's just you dreaming. It is true that many Republican Senators really do not like Trump, but they like being reelected more than they dislike Trump. Overwhelmingly, the constituents to which GOP Senators owe their office are supportive of the President. You saw this with the Kavanaugh hearings and Senator Graham; Trump and Graham had feuded plentifully up to that point, but with Graham's seat up in the immediate future he's playing much more to what his base constituency wants.

tl;dr the Republicans in the Senate are probably not going to defect to vote against him in that instance because their base constituents would be certain to vote them out


Edit I'll add that it *is* possible, but recent behavior by anti-Trump GOP Senators has me thinking this way.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 09, 2018, 10:43:11 pm
Quote
tl;dr the Republicans in the Senate are probably not going to defect to vote against him in that instance because their base constituents would be certain to vote them out

Imagine that someone drew up the impeachment procedure on the assumption all senators would be non-partisan as well as elected by (non-partisan) state legislatures. Ah well.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on November 09, 2018, 10:58:33 pm
A delusional assumption, frankly. Impeachment-convictions will be shot down in the very same way they are started; partisanship is a two-way street.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 09, 2018, 11:06:57 pm
The assumption was not that partisanship wouldn't exist, but that parties at all would not exist. It's why the US electoral system is such a mess and probably one of the worst in the Western world.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 09, 2018, 11:19:22 pm
Can't really bash Trump for using 'Europe' and 'European Union' synonymously when EU politicians do it all the time. It's also kinda stupid given the European continent is currently more than twice the size of the land area of the European Union.

And Trump is right, Europe has been subsidised by the US for decades when it comes to defence. The US stationed c.300,000 men in Germany alone at the height of the Cold War. Even in 2018 US forces still form the backbone of NATO deployments in Europe.

PESCO is one thing but Macron's idea to undermine NATO with an EU military is just stupid. For a start five EU members have self-declared neutrality. It's also a big ask for countries like Poland and the Baltic states to turn their backs on an historically reliable ally (the US) and instead place their fate in the hands of historically unreliable "allies" (France and Germany). Germans are, as we all know, natural psychopaths whilst France is just downright untrustworthy (de Gaulle pulled France out of all NATO military structures in 1967 and ordered all NATO personnel to leave French territory. They only reversed that decision in 2009). 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 09, 2018, 11:24:48 pm
Quote
And Trump is right, Europe has been subsidised by the US for decades when it comes to defence. The US stationed c.300,000 men in Germany alone at the height of the Cold War. Even in 2018 US forces still form the backbone of NATO deployments in Europe.

So pull them back.

Quote
Germans are, as we all know, natural psychopaths

Only now you tell me this? Do you know how much I interact with Germans on a daily basis? I'm lucky to be alive.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ZeroNight on November 09, 2018, 11:44:37 pm
Quote
And Trump is right, Europe has been subsidised by the US for decades when it comes to defence. The US stationed c.300,000 men in Germany alone at the height of the Cold War. Even in 2018 US forces still form the backbone of NATO deployments in Europe.

So pull them back.

Quote
Germans are, as we all know, natural psychopaths

Only now you tell me this? Do you know how much I interact with Germans on a daily basis? I'm lucky to be alive.

Ouch  :'(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 11, 2018, 01:08:32 pm
And Trump is right, Europe has been subsidised by the US for decades when it comes to defence. The US stationed c.300,000 men in Germany alone at the height of the Cold War. Even in 2018 US forces still form the backbone of NATO deployments in Europe.

Stationing 300.000 troops in Germany is definitely not equal to subsidizing the European Defense budget (which is something the U.S. haven't done in the cold war).
By stationing 300.000 troops in Germany, the US were looking out for itself. Not for Europe, for themselves.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on November 11, 2018, 06:33:31 pm
And Trump is right, Europe has been subsidised by the US for decades when it comes to defence. The US stationed c.300,000 men in Germany alone at the height of the Cold War. Even in 2018 US forces still form the backbone of NATO deployments in Europe.

Stationing 300.000 troops in Germany is definitely not equal to subsidizing the European Defense budget (which is something the U.S. haven't done in the cold war).
By stationing 300.000 troops in Germany, the US were looking out for itself. Not for Europe, for themselves.
We have an ocean to keep the Russians away, it was literally for you all so Stalin didn't pubstomp you all because he got bored.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on November 11, 2018, 06:37:15 pm
You make that sound like the US had 0 economic & strategic gain in keeping Europe democratic.
Which I'm pretty certain is what Riddlez is reffering to.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on November 11, 2018, 06:45:02 pm
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1AgDqQMNn0XSTiXZqI/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 11, 2018, 07:02:14 pm
Help keep American interests intact by allowing military bases on the border, or risk becoming a juicy satellite state. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Of course the US did it for gain, countries don't fight wars going in and expecting to not get anything in return. Sounds cruel but that's how the world spins, and I'm sure most Europeans wouldn't have rather left it up to Stalin.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 11, 2018, 11:50:13 pm
Not a zero-sum game.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 11, 2018, 11:57:51 pm
It may have done so for selfish reasons but the US has still subsidised European defence for decades. Nothing you've said changes that Riddlez. The difference between now and the Cold War is that a) the US is not as rich as it once was, and b) Moscow is no longer much of a threat (or at least not a military one).

If Macron wants an EU army he should at least be honest about why rather than spreading lies/propaganda. The US is not a military threat to Europe as Macron claims (there's French gratitude for you, and what an insult saying that in the run up to Armistice Day) and Russia certainly isn't either. Russia is actually a relatively weak country with terrible demographics and a struggling economy. Macron wants an EU army because he's an EU nationalist and if he gets his way I think it could backfire worse than the Euro.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 12, 2018, 01:35:40 pm
Russia isn't a threat because of the size of their military power, but because of their willingness to use it.

Quote
Macron wants an EU army because he's an EU nationalist

Or maybe because France's quite ridiculously large army would be one of the most powerful parts of such an army, much larger than the role it plays within NATO. I dunno.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 12, 2018, 02:17:07 pm
We have an ocean to keep the Russians away, it was literally for you all so Stalin didn't pubstomp you all because he got bored.

The U.S. do not look at their national security in such constrained terms.
The United States relies primarily on their territorial integrity, guarded by the US Navy, not the Army.
Canada and Mexico will never be a serious threat for them so they look at the pacific and the atlantic for their territorial integrity. Considering a large-scale conventional threat, the US would not be able to concentrate enough forces to secure both oceans with one navy. This is where Europe comes into play:

The U.S. cannot influence China enough to keep that side of their country safe, but it is also not enough of a problem to be a serious threat as of now. They have allies in Europe, so thats where they focus is.
By stationing troops in Europe, the U.S. can prevent a large-scale naval threat from ever happening (launched from the EU continent).

So no, tits' not subsidizing other countries. That is not how countries work and CERTAINLY not how the U.S. works.


Also considering what I said, WWII can be explained: an eastern threat: japan, and a european threa: Germany.

Thats why they invaded in normandy. not because they loved 'the europhiles'  but because they had to.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 12, 2018, 04:02:15 pm
Russia isn't a threat because of the size of their military power, but because of their willingness to use it.

Except they've not actually been that willing to use military force and have only done so when they ran out of other options.

Quote
Macron wants an EU army because he's an EU nationalist

Or maybe because France's quite ridiculously large army would be one of the most powerful parts of such an army, much larger than the role it plays within NATO. I dunno.

Yeah, when you've got a big shiny army the obvious thing to do is hand over control so that countries like Italy and Greece now have a veto over where it gets deployed. You should hope I'm right about Russia not being a military threat, because if I'm wrong then Putin will get friendly EU countries (of which there are a large number) to veto that army from moving a single inch.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 12, 2018, 09:02:06 pm
Russia isn't going anywhere with their army anytime soon. Their main focus now is operating in the information domain. They're not strong enough to make a move on Poland, they will definitely not anger NATO with Finland or the Baltics and they're not gonna do much else except fuck around in cyber.

And besides.... Russia can't afford a war.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 12, 2018, 09:11:23 pm
And besides.... Russia can't afford a war.

Ukraine, Syria, Caucasus, Africa.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 12, 2018, 10:41:25 pm
And besides.... Russia can't afford a war.

Ukraine, Syria, Caucasus, Africa.

That's not war... those are small conflicts... I meant a real war. Steel on steel kind of war.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 13, 2018, 06:43:22 am
And besides.... Russia can't afford a war.

Yep, and certainly not one against their biggest export market!

Russia can't possibly win a conventional war with the geopolitical chessboard looking as it currently is. That's why they're changing the board via non-military means. An EU army that undermines NATO would be yet another big win for Russian foreign policy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 13, 2018, 10:06:33 am
And besides.... Russia can't afford a war.

Ukraine, Syria, Caucasus, Africa.

That's not war... those are small conflicts... I meant a real war. Steel on steel kind of war.

If you change the definition of war to something that's not happening, yeah, they're not fighting wars. Nor is any state.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Lone on November 13, 2018, 11:14:18 am
Change my mind:
Communism is bs.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 13, 2018, 12:10:22 pm
If you change the definition of war to something that's not happening, yeah, they're not fighting wars. Nor is any state.

Okay i should have said warfighting. Doesn't change the point.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on November 13, 2018, 02:27:40 pm
Change my mind:
Communism is bs.
urrr dat wasnt real communism!111!111ojenoenenoe1!11 :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 13, 2018, 05:06:13 pm
If you change the definition of war to something that's not happening, yeah, they're not fighting wars. Nor is any state.

Okay i should have said warfighting. Doesn't change the point.

What is the point? That Russia will never go to war with anyone even though they have and continue to wage war on their neighbours and that of their allies?
Quote
they will definitely not anger NATO with Finland or the Baltics

In a Wargame by the RAND Corporation,  Russia is at the gates of Talin and Riga within 60 hours, even with the assumption that the US managed to deploy a Stryker batallion in a possible built-up scenario. Which I, to be honest, do not find too likely considering how long it took for NATO to even deploy the four batallions in the Baltic states they have there now. Russia could defeat and occupy two NATO countries and then offer to engage in negotiations long before NATO even manages to deploy a counter-force.

The assumption you make here is that NATO would OF COURSE follow up on article 5 and wage war against Russia. But that's, sadly, quite the assumption, especially with the 60-hour-Fait-compli-scenario. That's a political decision, and it's quite likely especially countries more to the west of Europe would not support a military response and would be willing to consider negotiations.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 13, 2018, 06:59:46 pm
Hmmm, in order to get to Tallinn and/or Riga the Russians would have to kill a fair few Americans given the number of US military bases in the Baltics. Can anyone imagine a scenario whereby a US President doesn't unleash 'fire and fury' but meekly goes to the negotiating table instead? And if NATO doesn't respond as per Article 50 then the consequences would be catastrophic. Who would trust America ever again?

I can't recall the exact quote but Henry Kissinger said that American hegemony is based upon its network of alliances. It's all built upon trust, and it'd all come crashing down if Article 5 isn't followed through.

So yes, whilst the Russians would steamroller over the Baltics relatively quickly a NATO response is close to certain. The US has too much to lose for it not to respond.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 13, 2018, 07:34:00 pm
"Hey NATO, you can go to war with us, or agree to this deal and we'll leave the Baltic states again with not a shot fired again!"

The USA doesn't need to go to war, it just needs to be able to claim a victory and say it did defend the Baltic states.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on November 14, 2018, 10:12:01 am
That's the reason there's an eFP: to force NATO to respond as soon as the bombs start falling. They're there as a buffer, so that NATO countries HAVE to respond if Russia attacks. They can get away politically with leaving the Baltics to Russia when they're alone... station a brigade of NATO forces there and they are definitely not going to 'leave it'.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on November 14, 2018, 07:15:39 pm
https://www.facebook.com/nigelfarageofficial/videos/446480095880198/UzpfSTEwMDAwMjA1NTA0ODU0ODoxOTQwMzc3OTg2MDE2MDE4/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 14, 2018, 09:08:22 pm
Well, we have the draft Brexit withdrawal agreement in full: https://www.scribd.com/document/393219731/Draft-Withdrawal-Agreement#from_embed

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on November 15, 2018, 01:26:32 pm
Not gonna bother reading it until it's actually through parliament.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on November 15, 2018, 03:07:19 pm
https://www.facebook.com/nigelfarageofficial/videos/446480095880198/UzpfSTEwMDAwMjA1NTA0ODU0ODoxOTQwMzc3OTg2MDE2MDE4/

Juncker's on his phone checking which pubs in the area are open this early
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on November 15, 2018, 06:04:25 pm
Rees-Mogg's finally made his move.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on November 15, 2018, 07:24:28 pm
> Kill Annoying Journalist with Skilled Agents
> Prosecute and kill those same agents to appease international community

I’d rather work for House Bolton
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 15, 2018, 10:48:59 pm
The only hope left is for the EU Commission to be voted out at the next election. Oh wait...

https://twitter.com/YTCreators/status/1062416438034620417
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on November 15, 2018, 11:29:34 pm
Do you guys remember when the government actually did something for the people? I don't.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on November 17, 2018, 06:27:59 pm
Do you guys remember when the government actually did something for the people? I don't.
Which is why the state should only use tax money for military and police, public roads and judicial matters. Because those are the only things they are able to govern efficiently.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on November 17, 2018, 07:30:55 pm
Do you guys remember when the government actually did something for the people? I don't.
Which is why the state should only use tax money for military and police, public roads and judicial matters. Because those are the only things they are able to govern efficiently.
Watch out with that hate speech, your progressive government might put you on some watchlist.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MATT123456789 on November 17, 2018, 07:51:39 pm
Do you guys remember when the government actually did something for the people? I don't.

Let us see

1. Military
2. Police(the people who keep you from getting robbed)
3. Fire Department(keep your house from burning down)
4. Clean water
5. Electricity
6. Roads
7. Education
8. Air travel
9. Cheaper food(subsidized the agricultural, meat, and dairy industries)

I could keep going on and on but if you hate the government so much why don't you go live in somalia  :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Suns on November 17, 2018, 09:53:15 pm
Do you guys remember when the government actually did something for the people? I don't.

Let us see

1. Military
2. Police(the people who keep you from getting robbed)
3. Fire Department(keep your house from burning down)
4. Clean water
5. Electricity
6. Roads
7. Education
8. Air travel
9. Cheaper food(subsidized the agricultural, meat, and dairy industries)
10. Affirmative Action (College/University educations for minorities)
11. FAFSA (Federal Student Aid for incoming college students)
12. Healthcare

I could keep going on and on but if you hate the government so much why don't you go live in somalia  :)

anarchists  :-\
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 17, 2018, 09:54:23 pm
government out here with the big dick energy
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on November 17, 2018, 11:23:14 pm
10. Affirmative Action (College/University educations for minorities)

Uh oh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Suns on November 18, 2018, 12:53:04 am
10. Affirmative Action (College/University educations for minorities)

Uh oh

i dont agree with it but the government does provide it hence i listed it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on November 18, 2018, 07:34:04 am
9. Cheaper food(subsidized the agricultural, meat, and dairy industries)

I suppose if you're purely a consumer it's easier to just see the cheaper products and not to see the socioeconomic devastation whole regions of the country have experienced thanks to the USDA's selective subsidization.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 18, 2018, 08:15:53 am
9. Cheaper food(subsidized the agricultural, meat, and dairy industries)

I suppose if you're purely a consumer it's easier to just see the cheaper products and not to see the socioeconomic devastation whole regions of the country have experienced thanks to the USDA's selective subsidization.
I sure do love my frozen chick burrito bowl for that extra protein!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on November 18, 2018, 01:03:03 pm
Implying that wasn't an ironic comment mimicking anarchists, smh you people gay
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Lone on November 18, 2018, 01:37:19 pm
Change my mind:
Communism is bs.
urrr dat wasnt real communism!111!111ojenoenenoe1!11 :o :o :o :o

Just imagine what real communism would be like then
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on November 18, 2018, 08:35:23 pm
Guys I'm just being ironic
(https://i.imgur.com/goklKf9.png)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on November 18, 2018, 09:39:32 pm
TF2? What is this the 1980's?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on November 18, 2018, 09:41:04 pm
For a second I legit just thought that I wrote the post above. I hate you Furrnox. :P
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on November 19, 2018, 01:25:17 am
A timeless masterpiece? What is this the 1980's?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on November 19, 2018, 05:45:06 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ2L-R8NgrA

Memes
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on November 19, 2018, 06:03:32 pm
Copy that, we now have full meme clearance:

(https://cuckedsweden.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/swedennnn.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on November 19, 2018, 06:08:03 pm
Old meme.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on November 19, 2018, 06:14:17 pm
And how marvelously it has stood the test of time.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on November 19, 2018, 06:45:15 pm
It is hard being Swedish on the internet these days.

Spoiler
Doesnt make this any less true
Spoiler
Copy that, we now have full meme clearance:

(https://cuckedsweden.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/swedennnn.jpg)
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 19, 2018, 10:58:25 pm
Gonna drop a cruise missile on this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjzeNBSZFUo
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on November 20, 2018, 05:01:39 am
Smh cant wait to go back to the motherland.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on November 20, 2018, 01:15:37 pm
Ukraine, Russia what's the difference?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on November 20, 2018, 08:18:05 pm
What a joke of a liberal cuck Trudeau truly is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLdEYw3ginA
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on November 20, 2018, 11:00:50 pm
What a joke of a liberal cuck Trudeau truly is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLdEYw3ginA
Posted this last year m8, old news.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on November 21, 2018, 04:12:51 am
What a fucking joke of a politican.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ambiguous on November 21, 2018, 04:13:22 am
Ukraine, Russia what's the difference?
By Motherland I meant the US but yeah sure same thing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on November 22, 2018, 12:03:01 am
I dont understand...

Its almost 2019 and our budget still hasnt balanced itself?

But what about le weed revenue???
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on November 22, 2018, 01:24:34 am
But what about le weed revenue???

You'll be spending that on mental health facilities.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on November 23, 2018, 10:48:19 pm
Humanitarian superpower Sweden  ;D ;D ;D ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZh4xq4A3XU
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on November 25, 2018, 04:20:21 pm
Masspsychosis is persistent

https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/11/sweden-to-sign-un-migration-pact-claims-it-will-lead-to-economic-and-social-development/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on November 26, 2018, 02:14:12 am
https://www.newsweek.com/someone-hacked-donald-trumps-wikipedia-page-replaced-photo-image-penis-1228571

Journalism in 2018 everyone

Additional points for "hacked"
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on November 28, 2018, 01:43:11 pm
It was me, I did it.
Am I cool now?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 01, 2018, 01:07:07 pm
So is StevenChilton still around to tell us why the Brexit deal is actually a great British victory?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 01, 2018, 06:43:54 pm
So is StevenChilton still around to tell us why the Brexit deal is actually a great British victory?

I don't say things that I don't think are true. It's a pretty bad deal and for that reason I doubt it'll get through Parliament. 'No Deal' is increasingly likely and if that happens then both sides will suffer.

If it is 'No Deal' then it'll be the biggest disaster of EU foreign policy since Yugoslavia. You'd have turned a friendly state looking to maintain relations into one that's now hostile, at the same time losing co-operation in defence, intelligence sharing, science & technology, etc. The loss of the British market is already causing headaches for the EU given a number of trade partners are now looking to re-negotiate their agreements. You could have avoided almost all of this by having a grown-up negotiation that kept the UK close to the EU bloc. Instead you fucked Theresa May about much the same way as you did to Yanis Varoufakis.

Sometimes in diplomacy you have to balance out short-term triumphalism against the interests of the long-term relationship. I'd have thought France & Germany would have learnt that lesson with the Treaty of Versailles.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 01, 2018, 07:24:03 pm
Yeah, I suspect the 'It's the EU's fault for not accepting we are a special snowflake that wants to have the cake and eat it too'-line will be pushed a lot by Brexiteers after the British economy tanks by -9%.

Quote
You could have avoided almost all of this by having a grown-up negotiation that kept the UK close to the EU bloc.

Ha. You could have avoided all of this by having a grown-up talk with eachother about the reality of leaving the European Union. How many times have you guys been told the deal you imagined cannot happen and will not happen? What, you thought we were joking the first 1200 times?

Quote
Instead you fucked Theresa May about much the same way as you did to Yanis Varoufakis.

No, you just have to accept that A. you fucked yourself with Brexit and B. The European Union doesn't own you anything. We could literally force a deal on you that makes Gibraltar part of Papua New Guinea and puts Northern Ireland on sale on Ebay if we feel that's in our interest.

Good fun, the Brexit vote is apparantly planned just before my birthday. What a present.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on December 01, 2018, 08:35:36 pm
We could literally force a deal on you that makes Gibraltar part of Papua New Guinea and puts Northern Ireland on sale on Ebay if we feel that's in our interest.

[doubt]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 01, 2018, 08:51:48 pm
I meant 'force' as in the only deal we'd offer. Although considering the UK suffers so much more economically and the political fall-out is so much bigger in the UK than it is within the EU, I wonder what we could away with.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 01, 2018, 09:10:41 pm
Meh, 'No Deal' Brexit will be bumpy but nowhere near as bad as -9%. In 20 years time EU politicians (if the EU is still a thing that is) will look across the English Channel at a very large economy and regret the fact that it was allowed to move so far outside the EU orbit.

The sad part about all this is that Duuring is Dutch, and the Netherlands is heavily exposed to Brexit, yet he's cheering on predictions of economic doom (predictions which have thus far failed to materialise). But if Duuring is right then his birthday present might be that he eventually becomes unemployed. I can imagine him sitting at home in Holland, welfare check in one hand and EU flag in the other, still ranting and raving about how it's all Britain's fault.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 01, 2018, 09:13:35 pm
I'm not cheering on predictions of economic doom. I have accepted that there is no positive end to this story. We're all gonna suffer, and nobody will benefit. Unless Brexit is of course reversed.

And yes, it is Britains fault. We didn't force them to become a member and we did not force them out.

Quote
I can imagine him sitting at home in Holland,

My home is not in Holland.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 01, 2018, 09:36:18 pm
I'm not cheering on predictions of economic doom. I have accepted that there is no positive end to this story. We're all gonna suffer, and nobody will benefit. Unless Brexit is of course reversed.

And yes, it is Britains fault. We didn't force them to become a member and we did not force them out.

The EU changed very rapidly in a short space of time. A lot of people, probably the majority of EU citizens given the referendum outcomes, were not happy with the changes. Then the Germans decided to fuck over Southern Europe, unilaterally open up the borders of an entire continent and make demands for an EU army.

Plainly Britain could never sign up to any of that. Before the referendum was even announced people in Brussels were arguing that a new relationship was needed with the UK.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 01, 2018, 10:04:19 pm
Good luck eating that cake.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 01, 2018, 10:06:11 pm
Good luck eating that cake.

K, good luck with the Germans.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 03, 2018, 03:47:45 pm
losing co-operation in defence, intelligence sharing,

No. Britain will still be part of NATO and come on... just because countries are in the EU doesn't mean they share intelligence... this is not the Netherlands.
Britain has pretty much only have open intelligence sharing with the U.S. and to lesser extent the 5Is.

Europe will not be less safe because of Brexit in that sense, by any degree.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 03, 2018, 04:16:49 pm
The EU wanted Britain to sign up to the European Defence Agency, European Defence Fund, PESCO collaboration, and so on post-Brexit. They want British expertise for the EU military proposal and now that's all in the current Withdrawal Agreement.

EU countries do share intelligence with one another, but they could never set up their own version of 5 Eyes because it simply wouldn't work. Too many EU member states (whether it be their political, military or intelligence apparatus) are extensively penetrated by the Kremlin. Just recently an Austrian colonel was exposed for being a Russian spy for decades, and it was apparently a British tip-off that led to the exposure:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/12/british-tip-off-led-arrest-retired-austrian-colonel-charges/

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on December 03, 2018, 04:17:51 pm
The problem with the EU is that the federalists strip power and self-governance from European nations for matters which they know nothing about.

It is troublesome when EU lawmakers wish to regulate our forest industry and our domestic hunting laws and gun regulations.

The longterm play federalists in Brussels is to wipe the borders clean and impose a central government in Brussels to rule all of Europe. This is becoming more and more clear.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 03, 2018, 04:40:53 pm
Eu countries do share intelligence with one another,

Okay they do, but barely... France barely does it, because France does its own thing. Eastern Europeans aren't that good to begin with so little they can offer the rest of Europe.
Spain and Italy pretty much only share acute terrorist threats and military intel in combined ops.

Really intel is too closed in the EU. They're trying, and rightfully so, to break it open a little but it's very, very slow going.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 03, 2018, 05:43:15 pm
Really intel is too closed in the EU. They're trying, and rightfully so, to break it open a little but it's very, very slow going.

Yeah, for a good reason given the amount of Kremlin cock that gets sucked by EU member states *cough* Italy *cough* Austria *cough* Greece
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 04, 2018, 12:07:26 am
Unlike what you seem to think, it's really quite uncommon for higher government circles to be penetrated these days.... most espionage work is focused against intelligence services and not the hardcore The Americans spy shit.

It's really not that glamorous... want movie-level intel shit? Go to counter-terrorism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 04, 2018, 07:39:50 am
Unlike what you seem to think, it's really quite uncommon for higher government circles to be penetrated these days

I never said it was common, it's far more the case that their military and intelligence circles have been deeply penetrated by the Kremlin. And I'm not saying it's anything like 'The Americans' that's just silly. But it is the case that political leaders in a number of member states are very close with the Russians. Berlusconi and Putin used to go on holiday together, Putin was a guest at the current Austrian Foreign Minister's wedding, also in Austria the FPÖ (a party currently in government) has a cooperation pact with Putin's United Russia, etc. You think French DGSE agents are going to risk their necks by sharing intelligence with that lot?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on December 07, 2018, 01:01:58 am
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/d93094bc1700478e25bee3672470e19e.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 08, 2018, 04:06:27 pm
Anyone in France able to give a view about what the 'gilets jaunes' protests are all about? Also how come it's spreading to Belgium and the Netherlands?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on December 08, 2018, 04:44:28 pm
(https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1522121407865.jpg)

track down your local politician btw
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 08, 2018, 06:31:46 pm
Anyone in France able to give a view about what the 'gilets jaunes' protests are all about? Also how come it's spreading to Belgium and the Netherlands?

It's 'spreading' to the Netherlands because the same small group of right-wingers think thís time, and not the previous five failed attempts at uprisings and new political parties, their glorious revolution will happen. There were, what, 400 in the entire country spread over like 10 cities this saturday? As far as they made demands, they bottle down to 'Down with the current prime minister, leave EU, raise pensions, lower taxes and re-instate the death penalty'. Oh, and elected mayors of course.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on December 08, 2018, 07:56:24 pm
*thinking*
https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/1071476648120328192
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 08, 2018, 08:12:05 pm
They're not European, they're not army, they're not crushing and yellow vests are not dissidents. Grow up.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 08, 2018, 08:26:26 pm
They're not European, they're not army, they're not crushing and yellow vests are not dissidents. Grow up.

Well, I agree they're not European but they are technically EU ('European Gendarmerie Force' has been a thing for years, hence the yellow stars on the vehicles). Also Macron ordered the French army onto the streets, so actually an EU military will quite likely be used for these kinds of purposes. It's PJW, so it's presented in a sensationalist way, but the gist of what he's saying is true.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on December 08, 2018, 08:29:12 pm
They're not European, they're not army, they're not crushing and yellow vests are not dissidents. Grow up.

Well, I agree they're not European but they are technically EU ('European Gendarmerie Force' has been a thing for years, hence the yellow stars on the vehicles). Also Macron ordered the French army onto the streets, so actually an EU military will quite likely be used for these kinds of purposes. It's PJW, so it's presented in a sensationalist way, but the gist of what he's saying is true.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 08, 2018, 08:35:27 pm
Yeah, when you spin everything your way, gloss over most of the facts and make predictions based on thin air, it does sound like you're right. Who knew.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on December 08, 2018, 11:23:23 pm
I'm sure at the very least that they are European.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on December 08, 2018, 11:30:24 pm
France has a 200 year long history of fighting itself, they are in their 5th Republic. Statistically, it is about time for them to form a 6th.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 09, 2018, 09:14:07 am
Never forget the 5th republic was created through an actual militairy coup.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on December 09, 2018, 08:14:57 pm
But guys, Macron was the hero that France needed to save them from the evil right-wingers 😩😩😩
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on December 09, 2018, 10:10:58 pm
Odds on a Corbyn premiership?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 09, 2018, 11:18:16 pm
Odds on a Corbyn premiership?

Fairly unlikely, barring a black swan event, since he's *still* behind in the polls despite the current mess that the Tories have got themselves into. He regularly gets beaten by the 'Don't Know' option when it comes to polling on preferred PM, him or Theresa May. The Tories have descended into infighting, they've been in power for eight years, Theresa May is a pretty unpopular PM and they're pursuing a divisive policy goal (Brexit) yet he still can't beat them.

For him to become PM he'd probably have to form a coalition government, and I'm not sure who would want to partner with him in a hard-left government with a whiff of antisemitism about it. Probably only the Scottish nationalists, but their popularity has been in decline and will probably win even fewer seats than they did in 2017. He'd also go up against a far more popular Tory leader in any future election.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on December 10, 2018, 06:29:38 pm
So if I have the information right, May has postponed a second referendum vote because it would be an overwhelming no? That's quite disappointing just given how terrible she has handled the matter.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on December 10, 2018, 07:24:31 pm
If at first you don't get the vote you want, try try again!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 10, 2018, 08:34:54 pm
So, same shit different day for Theresa May. Anyone else watch Macron's public humiliation live on French TV?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on December 11, 2018, 08:26:22 pm
Anyone else watch Macron's public humiliation live on French TV?

So... you uh, you gonna link it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on December 11, 2018, 09:07:16 pm
Anyone else watch Macron's public humiliation live on French TV?

So... you uh, you gonna link it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 11, 2018, 10:16:52 pm
If you feel that adapting your policies to have broader public support is a humilation, I guess that's why British politicians would apparantly rather set their country on fire than admitting they are following a shit direction of policy.

Rumours has it there are enough letters of no confidence for a leadership challenge to start against May. If so, there will be an announcement by tomorrow afternoon.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on December 11, 2018, 10:27:58 pm
This is either Corbyn's moment or Boris's chance to assume absolute authoritarian power.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 12, 2018, 01:01:43 am
If you feel that adapting your policies to have broader public support is a humilation

He didn't adapt his policies, he did a 180 degree turn (which he was forced to do after almost losing the streets of Paris). He promised a fundamental reform of the French labour market to make it more competitive, but has now ended up having to massively increase the minimum wage. Having given in so easily he will struggle to implement anything else given the French know they can simply take to the streets.

Also you do realise that as a result of these 'emergency handouts' the French budget deficit will be way above (perhaps even double) the Eurozone limit of 2% of GDP? You also realise that the EU Commission is currently losing its shit with Italy for daring to have a budget deficit of merely 2.4%? Will France get away with breaking EU rules for the 1 millionth time in a row? Of course, but Italy might get away with it now too.

Macron promised the Germans that in return for a Eurozone fiscal union he would liberalise the French economy and, together with Berlin, zealously enforce the rules over the other member states. He can't do either of those things now. He has literally managed to fuck both his domestic reforms and EU agenda in the course of a single speech.

 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 12, 2018, 09:29:07 am
New poll.

I have to say, boy, a leadership challenge? What a birthdaygift!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 12, 2018, 11:08:12 am
New poll.

I have to say, boy, a leadership challenge? What a birthdaygift!

Duuring you're wrong again. It's a no-confidence vote not a leadership challenge.

Have a good birthday.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 12, 2018, 11:41:34 am
Ahhh, yeah, you're right. There won't be a leadership election until the no-confidence vote passes. Not that it will. My money is on survival.

Thanks, I will!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 12, 2018, 09:33:12 pm
So...she's won (technically) but will it be by enough votes? Anything over 100 rebels might be enough to oblige her to quit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Suns on December 12, 2018, 10:20:45 pm
war is a racket.

always has been always will be.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 14, 2018, 02:00:51 pm
https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-britain-small-boring-and-stupid-theresa-may-eu-withdrawal-deal/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Eamon on December 14, 2018, 03:04:26 pm
Hungary lmao
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 14, 2018, 05:18:32 pm
https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-britain-small-boring-and-stupid-theresa-may-eu-withdrawal-deal/

Duuring reduced to posting clickbait opinion pieces.

In the real world the latest Q3 economic figures have British GDP growth at 0.4%, which is double that of the Eurozone (0.2%). Q4 figures are also very likely to show British GDP growth well ahead given what's happening in France and Italy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 14, 2018, 05:25:59 pm
How is that related to the article?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 14, 2018, 08:08:34 pm
How is that related to the article?

The article is purely designed to be clickbait for the 'remainer' Twitter circlejerk. It's not a serious analysis.

You can hate on Britain all you like for wanting 'special treatment', but is it actually that special? It's just Britain opting out of things that come along and decides it doesn't want to be involved with. Britain has always met its EU obligations for things it has signed up to.

You know what *is* special treatment? Deciding that you *do* want to be part of these things but demanding special status at the same time. France has consistently done this, far more than any other EU member state, but nobody bats an eyelid because it's France.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 14, 2018, 08:11:49 pm
It's the personal observation of a close observer of the whole process and something I recognize quite a lot from my personal interaction with British (but especially English) people in the re-enactment scene. You're free to disagree with it as much as you want.

Quote
Deciding that you *do* want to be part of these things but demanding special status at the same time.

Like having the cake and eat it too? Then again, we actually don't know what Britain wants except things it won't get and has been told it won't get.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on December 14, 2018, 09:23:16 pm
Kosovo now declaring it has an army. I wonder if Serbia will dunk on them and we get another Balkan conflict or if it's more saber rattling.

Who can say where the road goes, where the day flows, only time
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 14, 2018, 10:36:28 pm
It's the personal observation of a close observer of the whole process and something I recognize quite a lot from my personal interaction with British (but especially English) people in the re-enactment scene. You're free to disagree with it as much as you want.

He's an activist-journalist who describes his job at Politico, I shit you not, as "...getting the EU sexy and make people feel attracted to it".
https://www.vinces.es/a-profile-of-politicos-ryan-heath/

That's fine. Before he went into journalism he spent 7 years working in the EU Commission, and to get a job there you have to demonstrate you are pro-EU. But do you really think he'd say anything different?

I'm not sure you'll find many people in Britain, beyond a few fringe figures, who voted for Brexit because of imperial nostalgia or whatever. It's mainly about national sovereignty and anti-elitism. Some local issues, e.g. fishing in coastal communities, probably drove the 'Leave' result too.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 15, 2018, 12:10:49 am
Again, I don't see how that's relevant to the article and its message (Which is not that people voted for Brexit because of nostalgia, by the way). Again, as I said, you can disagree with as much as you want as it's pretty clearly an opinion-article.

New poll.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on December 15, 2018, 08:12:02 pm
From an outsider's perspective, the whole things looks like a charade.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 15, 2018, 10:39:50 pm
Quote
It's quite hard to argue that given "Brexit is the story of a proud former imperial power undergoing a mid-life crisis." is included the opening establishing paragraphs of the article - at the very least it's heavily implied.

I disagree.

Quote
in order to sway the opinions of true 'neutrals'.

Whose opinion needs swaying? I thought Brexit was a done deal?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: UniversitasMetal on December 16, 2018, 02:17:07 pm
No wall.

No immigration reform.

No executive action against the treasonous Silicon Valley censors.

But at least I’m getting back a few extra bucks from my tax return this year!

(https://gab.com/media/image/bq-5c155c296fed5.jpeg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on December 16, 2018, 02:59:06 pm
All the smart ones already knew he was a shill already anyways.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Suns on December 16, 2018, 07:25:16 pm
All the smart ones already knew he was a shill already anyways.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on December 16, 2018, 07:41:57 pm
Looking at the 2016 election in hindsight, it was basically the lesser of two evils for most voters.

I will admit I wasn't that informed on many issues in 2016, but after having done presentations on the U.S. debt, Trump is appalling. He increasingly calls for massive pushes in deficit spending, only furthering our debt and fall. It's disappointing really because he cut a few pieces out of the tiny slices of the pie (will show under), but increased military. He's a disgrace to conservative spending and the idea that Republicans are fiscally conservative. It's the one thing I will give Bill Clinton credit for: He actually balanced the budget in his administration.
Defense spending was increased and this was 'justified' by cutting the little, rather insignificant, small pieces of the pie
(https://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/0070_Discretionary-Breakdown-full.gif)
[close]

It would appear the only logical solution is to attack our debt holders and make some new colonial possessions to subsidize the debt with more income. China seems to be doing it pretty well
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 16, 2018, 07:51:13 pm
Cutting back on Defense would go a long way.

I never thought I'd ever say it. But Defense is really one of the very few areas where money is better spent elsewhere. The U.S. is on the brink of becoming a third-world coutnry. Maternity deaths are too high, children deaths are too high.

Within the next 10-20 years the entire country's infrastructure will decline immensely because of lack of proper replacement and maintenance of bridges and railroads.
Basic access to healthcare is still shit, especially if you consider other Western countries.

Something with taxes, as in raising them, may go a long way. Sorry guys the issues in your country are mounting so fast y'all need some socialism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 16, 2018, 10:13:28 pm
Meh, empires rise and fall. If the Americans were too foolish to avoid the biggest contributing factor to imperial decline, namely military over-extension, then that's their problem. Does nobody in Washington read history books?

I guess it kinda sucks for us since China will soon be the preeminent global power, and Xi Jingping has recently appointed himself as General Secretary for life so we're back to the old days of lifelong communist dictators. Best case scenario is we have a multilateral world with other powers (US/EU/CANZUK/India) that can balance them out.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 17, 2018, 04:42:38 pm
I'd rather the US come to their senses and stay in power than, have Communist China as the leading global power.
Tbf China's rise is mostly thanks to greedy western capitalists relocating their factories there.
So I guess we in part have ourselves to blame for not electing competent politicians.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on December 17, 2018, 06:51:12 pm
If anything financial collapses the U.S. it will be the looming Social Security (and various other pensions) insolvency. Additionally, just raising taxes won't fix anything; if spending isn't cut we'll just keep digging the hole, there's only so much you can milk out of Americans. Therein lies the problem, one side refuses to cut defense spending and the other refuses to touch entitlement spending, and then they blame one another for not being bipartisan.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 17, 2018, 07:34:57 pm
Isn't there some Democrats and some Libertarians who are willing to reduce military spending?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on December 17, 2018, 08:51:52 pm
Isn't there some Democrats and some Libertarians who are willing to reduce military spending?
While libertarians want to cut spending, there are literally 0 in the House of Representatives or U.S. Senate. http://prntscr.com/lw75vu (http://prntscr.com/lw75vu)

Your best bet is finding fiscal conservatives like Rand Paul, but there are so few that they themselves are an extreme minority within their own parties.

If anything financial collapses the U.S. it will be the looming Social Security (and various other pensions) insolvency. Additionally, just raising taxes won't fix anything; if spending isn't cut we'll just keep digging the hole, there's only so much you can milk out of Americans. Therein lies the problem, one side refuses to cut defense spending and the other refuses to touch entitlement spending, and then they blame one another for not being bipartisan.
Yeah, it's pretty much a death wish to run a campaign with the idea that you're going to touch entitlements such as medicaid/SS/medicare. Considering voter patterns, it just can't be done seeing as how important the old voters are. The irony though is that the U.S. borrows money from the SS trust fund and owes money to that as well. It's really just a mess when you actually look at it and highlights why America needs a Peter the Great style leader to reform it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on December 17, 2018, 09:56:33 pm
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5S1EMmCWAE
[close]

Please end my suffering
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on December 17, 2018, 10:22:25 pm
Isn't there some Democrats and some Libertarians who are willing to reduce military spending?

The U.S. House and Senate only have Democrats and Republics (with two Independents who caucus with the Democrats). Generally Democrats are more willing to cut Defense spending. They are far less likely to be willing to touch entitlements. Hence the problem I alluded to, both sides of the aisle have the things they don't want to cut, and won't come together to cut across the board.

Constituencies don't help any, either. As much as I dislike H.W. Bush, he did reach a compromise involving an increase in taxes in tandem with a general cut in spending. It was extremely unpopular and the voting public, in their wisdom, voted them out - facilitating further debt spending.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on December 18, 2018, 12:42:33 am
America was and still is a failed experiment. Imperialist China is heading our way so prepare to dig in.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Eamon on December 18, 2018, 12:52:30 pm
You guys have too many smart and greedy people led by stupid and greedy people
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on December 18, 2018, 04:22:46 pm
Cutting back on Defense would go a long way.

I never thought I'd ever say it. But Defense is really one of the very few areas where money is better spent elsewhere. The U.S. is on the brink of becoming a third-world coutnry. Maternity deaths are too high, children deaths are too high.

Within the next 10-20 years the entire country's infrastructure will decline immensely because of lack of proper replacement and maintenance of bridges and railroads.
Basic access to healthcare is still shit, especially if you consider other Western countries.

Something with taxes, as in raising them, may go a long way. Sorry guys the issues in your country are mounting so fast y'all need some socialism.
Almost all of central and southern US can be considered third world, so there is no brink but simply a slow fall to the ground. Like you said, the infrastructure is complete shit as deemed by the ASCE, and it would take a lot of effort to convince the populace to seriously consider its condition. Slapping socialism on like a bandaid won't do anything. It's divided between two simple reasons: Americans are scared of the word alone, and the fact that socialists in this country never agree on its fundamentals. If I'm going to be honest bro, as much as we would like social change, I can't see it happening in the next 30 years for this country.  I think we can agree that a US collapse is NOT in the best interests of the world, or else have fun with the massive power vacuum and global recession that follows.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 18, 2018, 05:25:56 pm
Almost all of central and southern US can be considered third world

Many central US states actually rank very highly on the Human Development Index, it's the South and Rust Belt that rank quite poorly. Every country has regional economic disparity and there's not really much you can do about it. I think most of America's problems stem from a bloated military budget, racial tensions and poor healthcare provision.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on December 18, 2018, 06:21:31 pm
I will be moving to Chile once I get my nursing degree and finish my Spanish. That place is a solid diamond in a world full of gilded items like the U.S. and other Western countries
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on December 18, 2018, 08:07:49 pm
Almost all of central and southern US can be considered third world

Many central US states actually rank very highly on the Human Development Index, it's the South and Rust Belt that rank quite poorly. Every country has regional economic disparity and there's not really much you can do about it. I think most of America's problems stem from a bloated military budget, racial tensions and poor healthcare provision.
Racial problems are going to take another generation or two to finally wither (assuming they don't take up their forefathers' mantle, which is entirely plausible). Healthcare is shitty, no denying that, but it's good that people are able to point out that cost is the problem, not care. Thats why I believe that in the current state of Medicare, making it universally free would not remedy our problems. Whether it be the patient, government programs, or insurance, the cost is unacceptable on any scale.  The costs are constantly raked higher than they need to be. If you don't have insurance here and end up in the hospital, 90% of the time you are fucked, plain and simple. The only exception I can come find is the ER, which is subsidized by the government with billions, and doesn't affect the rising costs of insurance, medicine, etc...

Cutting the military spending? Sure, just don't cut it too much. America is rooted very, very deeply rooted into the geopolitical climate, and a sudden budget cut means that their influence will dwindle drastically. Russia and China don't make major annexations because America is literally right fucking there, and can deploy within days to counter them. Many nations have foregone military spending due to assurances by the US that they will provide aid and defense when it is required. For the US to leave right now wouldn't be a good idea. I'm certain that less-developed nations would begin a mass military buildup in order to flex on the inevitability of nuclear proliferation. Also you have to take into account how much our military does. Contrary to what a few people believe, the military maintains a massive presence on trade, especially maritime. It plays a major part in the protection of vessels across the the oceans, and actively combats piracy and provides logistical support to those in need. It was true 400 years ago and is still true today, controlling the seas with a naval hegemony is vital. Yes yes, I know that we embargo people that we don't like, but I can't imagine the East being any kinder. As it stands, I don't think a single NATO nation has more than 100 available naval craft, and be able to respond quickly to any crisis at which the US can (looking at you Falklands). If you're going to cut spending, do it in areas that don't do much, and not so suddenly that it causes a massive shift in geopolitical influence that turns out for the worst.

Regarding the military spending, I will quote this Reddit post, which explains it far better than I can.

Spoiler
Alright, late to this party, so I hope it doesn't get buried.

Full disclosure: as an officer in the military, I see a lot more of the organizational and budgetary side of things than most, so I wanted to share my two cents on military spending and let you decide on whether we actually spend too much.

As OP mentioned, there's a lot of metrics people use on US budgeting. Let me explore some of these issues in detail and hopefully bust a few myths, give you a historical background, and tell you what we currently peg spending on.

Military Spending - And Its Myths

Yes, the US spends $600 billion dollars on defense. And yes, that's more than the next 7-8 countries combined (assuming China's budget is honest, which we believe is not). And yes, the US spends about 36% of the worlds total spending on military.

But, as OP also mentioned, as a function of GDP, the US is at 3.3% - lower than some nations (like Russia) and a far cry from the 5.6% the US spent in 1988 near the tail end of the Cold War. Source: World Bank.

In the post WW2 world, this is at an all time low per the CFR with it having peaked at 16% around the time of the Korean War.

So which metric is better to use?

Well the issue with looking at nominal spending is that nominal spending doesn't correct for cost of living.

Take into consideration what the military actually spends its money on. You can use Table 5.1 of the GPO or this nifty Official DOD Budget Request 2017 (yes, all this stuff is public) to see the pretty breakdowns.

Per the GPO, for 2013:

Personnel Wages - 25%

Operations and Maintenance - 43%

Procurement - 16%

R&D - 10%

Atomic Energy Defense Activities - 3%

Other - 3%

So right off the bat, we need to kill the myth that buying new equipment costs us the most money. It simply doesn't.

Why did I bring up cost of living? Let's take a look at personnel wages and benefits shall we. Per the DOD budget request, this chart shows that:

$130 billion was requested just for military personnel wages for the 2.1 million active + reserve

A total of $177.9 billion was requested on just military personnel wages + benefits

Another $72.9 billion was requested for civilian pay and benefits for the 760,000 civilian FTEs in the DOD

A full $250.8 billion or 48% of the DOD base budget is allocated to JUST pay and benefits

What does this mean? Consider that a Chinese soldier is paid roughly a tenth of the wages of a US soldier. So sure, if we went to a Chinese pay scale, we could save $120 billion overnight. But that's neither feasible, wise, nor is it a good indicator of relative strength with China.

This is further exacerbated by the fact that both China and Russia have huge domestic arms industries producing goods at domestic prices. Furthermore, the world arms industry isn't an open market - the US doesn't compete with China or Russia directly as nations only buy from other nations they trust. The US buys domestic or buys from close allies like Belgium and Germany, who have comparable costs of production. End result? The US often pays 2-4x as much for a fighter jet than the Russian equivalent because US wages, US suppliers, and US maintainers all cost US prices, not Russian prices.

As a side note, this also irks me about the whole "arms trade" statistic and how the US is the number one exporter. Sure, by dollar amounts, we are - but our goods are magnitudes more expensive. The fact that Russia and China - producing goods at Russian and Chinese prices - are even close, should tell you who is exporting more physical quantity of goods, but I digress.

In sum, using nominal spending gives you eye popping numbers, but it tells you little about relative strength between nations. If anything, it should tell you how little Europe actually spends on defense (especially in comparison to Russian strength), and that China is a lot closer to the US than most people realize.

Waste Exists - But It's a Complicated Issue

One of the top issues everyone talks about is waste. Let me first bust one budgetary myth though: use it or lose it is not a DOD only thing. It exists in all federal agencies (e.g. NASA, NOAA, etc.) because the budget is done annually. Money not used one year isn't seen again.

It DOES NOT mean you need to spend it to get it again next year - the budget request is done annually and things change based on need and what not. Admittedly though, it does make it harder to justify getting budgeting if you don't show need, so alas, the system is very flawed. Short of a congressional change to how budgeting is done though, we're in a tough spot.

Does waste in the military exist? Absolutely. Thankfully, people are noticing and paying attention - there has been a considerable shift in mindset in the past few years towards saving money. Of course this has to be balanced: you don't want to skimp on maintenance or training, as lives are on the line when things go wrong.

In some areas, waste is also balanced by operational necessity. For instance, aircraft routinely dump fuel. In carrier aviation, we dump fuel because we have max landing limits - too heavy, and we can snap the arresting gear on the carrier or permanently damage our plane. Thus, if we arrive at the boat too heavy, the choice might be to dump thousands of pounds of fuel... or jettison even more expensive bombs. To the layman, it seems like we're burning fuel for no reason - but there's a rhyme and reason for it no matter how much it sucks. (And for the environmentalists, jet fuel is kerosene based - it's nothing like gasoline)

Inefficient Spending Often Comes from Political Sources

One of the big issues with the annual budgeting is that there is little long term continuity in a field that necessitates long term planning. For instance, the new class of aircraft carrier has been in the works for over a decade - and was planned out two decades ago. And yet, funding for it has oscillated year by year.

I'll give you an example of how political grandstanding has royally fucked military personnel and arguably cost us more money in the long run: sequestration.

During sequestration, a stop was put on training new replacement pilots for the fleet. Hundreds of replacement pilots were put on hold for a year. Well, since they just got their wings in training (costing roughly $1-2 million to train, each), you don't want to cut them from the military, but you still need to pay them.

But here's where the long term effects come in: every pilot in the Navy serves a 3 year operational tour before going back to become an instructor of some sort for 3 years. Whenever a pilot in the fleet is done with his first 3 years, a new replacement pilot comes in to take his place. Suddenly, the fleet had a shortage of pilots, and too many instructor pilots with no one to teach. And once pilots are done with their commitments, a lot get out to pursue other interests in the civilian world. Talk about a waste of human resources.

But this balloons further: a few years later, that shortage of pilots means fewer pilots available to be instructors. Fewer instructors mean fewer replacement pilots. Surely you can balance out how many pilots you bring in right? But ROTC and the Academy projects how many graduates they need from 4 years ago: suddenly, you have too many pilots-to-be and not enough instructors, and the fleet may need more pilots.

I could go into more detail, but the point is this: seemingly small disruptions have BIG ballooning effects on how the military operates.

Likewise, a lot of 'inefficiency' comes from conscious decisions to save money, believe it or not. Take for instance, the fact that much of US equipment is old. In the 90s, with the Cold War drawdown, we stopped a lot of acquisitions programs. Equipment in the military is designed to typically operate in 30 year lifecycles - the notable exceptions are things like capital ships (aircraft carriers).

However, in the 90s, a lot of early to mid Cold War stuff was up for retirement - and instead of replacing them, their lives were extended.

This does, however, have an unintended effect on Operations and Maintenance - the US now has very old equipment to maintain. Some of our equipment is from the 1950s. I'm not even exaggerating - we have over 370 KC-135's, last built in 1965(!). For a long time - particularly with the Cold War drawdown - we put off replacing old equipment, but suddenly with a resurgent China and Russia, we've stretched a lot of these airframes lives out while in the late 2000's we finally sought replacements in the form of the KC-46.

All across the board you can see this happen. The F-22 was to replace the F-15 in the 90s/2000s, but was cut short and now the F-15 has had increasing costs rise to keep an airframe from the 70s and 80s flying. The A-10 was last built in 1984 - it was due for retirement years ago, but Congressmen (like McCain) have kept it alive long past their expiration date.

I hope this all gives a little insight into how a lot of spending issues do exist in the military, but the situation is far more complicated than a simple comparison of nominal spending with other nations, and how waste and inefficiency are complex issues within themselves - sometimes by design, sometimes by outside meddling.Alright, late to this party, so I hope it doesn't get buried.

Full disclosure: as an officer in the military, I see a lot more of the organizational and budgetary side of things than most, so I wanted to share my two cents on military spending and let you decide on whether we actually spend too much.

As OP mentioned, there's a lot of metrics people use on US budgeting. Let me explore some of these issues in detail and hopefully bust a few myths, give you a historical background, and tell you what we currently peg spending on.

Military Spending - And Its Myths

Yes, the US spends $600 billion dollars on defense. And yes, that's more than the next 7-8 countries combined (assuming China's budget is honest, which we believe is not). And yes, the US spends about 36% of the worlds total spending on military.

But, as OP also mentioned, as a function of GDP, the US is at 3.3% - lower than some nations (like Russia) and a far cry from the 5.6% the US spent in 1988 near the tail end of the Cold War. Source: World Bank.

In the post WW2 world, this is at an all time low per the CFR with it having peaked at 16% around the time of the Korean War.

So which metric is better to use?

Well the issue with looking at nominal spending is that nominal spending doesn't correct for cost of living.

Take into consideration what the military actually spends its money on. You can use Table 5.1 of the GPO or this nifty Official DOD Budget Request 2017 (yes, all this stuff is public) to see the pretty breakdowns.

Per the GPO, for 2013:

Personnel Wages - 25%

Operations and Maintenance - 43%

Procurement - 16%

R&D - 10%

Atomic Energy Defense Activities - 3%

Other - 3%

So right off the bat, we need to kill the myth that buying new equipment costs us the most money. It simply doesn't.

Why did I bring up cost of living? Let's take a look at personnel wages and benefits shall we. Per the DOD budget request, this chart shows that:

$130 billion was requested just for military personnel wages for the 2.1 million active + reserve

A total of $177.9 billion was requested on just military personnel wages + benefits

Another $72.9 billion was requested for civilian pay and benefits for the 760,000 civilian FTEs in the DOD

A full $250.8 billion or 48% of the DOD base budget is allocated to JUST pay and benefits

What does this mean? Consider that a Chinese soldier is paid roughly a tenth of the wages of a US soldier. So sure, if we went to a Chinese pay scale, we could save $120 billion overnight. But that's neither feasible, wise, nor is it a good indicator of relative strength with China.

This is further exacerbated by the fact that both China and Russia have huge domestic arms industries producing goods at domestic prices. Furthermore, the world arms industry isn't an open market - the US doesn't compete with China or Russia directly as nations only buy from other nations they trust. The US buys domestic or buys from close allies like Belgium and Germany, who have comparable costs of production. End result? The US often pays 2-4x as much for a fighter jet than the Russian equivalent because US wages, US suppliers, and US maintainers all cost US prices, not Russian prices.

As a side note, this also irks me about the whole "arms trade" statistic and how the US is the number one exporter. Sure, by dollar amounts, we are - but our goods are magnitudes more expensive. The fact that Russia and China - producing goods at Russian and Chinese prices - are even close, should tell you who is exporting more physical quantity of goods, but I digress.

In sum, using nominal spending gives you eye popping numbers, but it tells you little about relative strength between nations. If anything, it should tell you how little Europe actually spends on defense (especially in comparison to Russian strength), and that China is a lot closer to the US than most people realize.

Waste Exists - But It's a Complicated Issue

One of the top issues everyone talks about is waste. Let me first bust one budgetary myth though: use it or lose it is not a DOD only thing. It exists in all federal agencies (e.g. NASA, NOAA, etc.) because the budget is done annually. Money not used one year isn't seen again.

It DOES NOT mean you need to spend it to get it again next year - the budget request is done annually and things change based on need and what not. Admittedly though, it does make it harder to justify getting budgeting if you don't show need, so alas, the system is very flawed. Short of a congressional change to how budgeting is done though, we're in a tough spot.

Does waste in the military exist? Absolutely. Thankfully, people are noticing and paying attention - there has been a considerable shift in mindset in the past few years towards saving money. Of course this has to be balanced: you don't want to skimp on maintenance or training, as lives are on the line when things go wrong.

In some areas, waste is also balanced by operational necessity. For instance, aircraft routinely dump fuel. In carrier aviation, we dump fuel because we have max landing limits - too heavy, and we can snap the arresting gear on the carrier or permanently damage our plane. Thus, if we arrive at the boat too heavy, the choice might be to dump thousands of pounds of fuel... or jettison even more expensive bombs. To the layman, it seems like we're burning fuel for no reason - but there's a rhyme and reason for it no matter how much it sucks. (And for the environmentalists, jet fuel is kerosene based - it's nothing like gasoline)

Inefficient Spending Often Comes from Political Sources

One of the big issues with the annual budgeting is that there is little long term continuity in a field that necessitates long term planning. For instance, the new class of aircraft carrier has been in the works for over a decade - and was planned out two decades ago. And yet, funding for it has oscillated year by year.

I'll give you an example of how political grandstanding has royally fucked military personnel and arguably cost us more money in the long run: sequestration.

During sequestration, a stop was put on training new replacement pilots for the fleet. Hundreds of replacement pilots were put on hold for a year. Well, since they just got their wings in training (costing roughly $1-2 million to train, each), you don't want to cut them from the military, but you still need to pay them.

But here's where the long term effects come in: every pilot in the Navy serves a 3 year operational tour before going back to become an instructor of some sort for 3 years. Whenever a pilot in the fleet is done with his first 3 years, a new replacement pilot comes in to take his place. Suddenly, the fleet had a shortage of pilots, and too many instructor pilots with no one to teach. And once pilots are done with their commitments, a lot get out to pursue other interests in the civilian world. Talk about a waste of human resources.

But this balloons further: a few years later, that shortage of pilots means fewer pilots available to be instructors. Fewer instructors mean fewer replacement pilots. Surely you can balance out how many pilots you bring in right? But ROTC and the Academy projects how many graduates they need from 4 years ago: suddenly, you have too many pilots-to-be and not enough instructors, and the fleet may need more pilots.

I could go into more detail, but the point is this: seemingly small disruptions have BIG ballooning effects on how the military operates.

Likewise, a lot of 'inefficiency' comes from conscious decisions to save money, believe it or not. Take for instance, the fact that much of US equipment is old. In the 90s, with the Cold War drawdown, we stopped a lot of acquisitions programs. Equipment in the military is designed to typically operate in 30 year lifecycles - the notable exceptions are things like capital ships (aircraft carriers).

However, in the 90s, a lot of early to mid Cold War stuff was up for retirement - and instead of replacing them, their lives were extended.

This does, however, have an unintended effect on Operations and Maintenance - the US now has very old equipment to maintain. Some of our equipment is from the 1950s. I'm not even exaggerating - we have over 370 KC-135's, last built in 1965(!). For a long time - particularly with the Cold War drawdown - we put off replacing old equipment, but suddenly with a resurgent China and Russia, we've stretched a lot of these airframes lives out while in the late 2000's we finally sought replacements in the form of the KC-46.

All across the board you can see this happen. The F-22 was to replace the F-15 in the 90s/2000s, but was cut short and now the F-15 has had increasing costs rise to keep an airframe from the 70s and 80s flying. The A-10 was last built in 1984 - it was due for retirement years ago, but Congressmen (like McCain) have kept it alive long past their expiration date.

I hope this all gives a little insight into how a lot of spending issues do exist in the military, but the situation is far more complicated than a simple comparison of nominal spending with other nations, and how waste and inefficiency are complex issues within themselves - sometimes by design, sometimes by outside meddling.
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Suns on December 18, 2018, 09:33:55 pm
if Americans want free education healthcare and other benefits they must prepare for a 70% - 80% income tax rate similar to the Scandinavian countries (but higher)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 18, 2018, 10:35:18 pm
I think we can agree that a US collapse is NOT in the best interests of the world, or else have fun with the massive power vacuum and global recession that follows.

As much as I'd like another European-dominated world solely because of self-interest I am slightly fearful of the future It is very well possible for once in history the powers that be will not be centered around the West/Europe. I am not sure if I will like the political fallout of that one if I am still around by then.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 19, 2018, 01:33:48 am
As much as I'd like another European-dominated world solely because of self-interest

Start having more babies then. If Europeans don't want to do that then the continent will have to adjust itself to gradual economic irrelevancy and mass migration as a necessity. I always have a good laugh when the European Space Agency announces plans to colonise Mars given they can't even colonise Europe.

It is very well possible for once in history the powers that be will not be centered around the West/Europe. I am not sure if I will like the political fallout of that one if I am still around by then.

It is going to happen and it'll be well within our lifetimes. My kids are almost two-by the time they become adults China will be the foremost global power, and I'd wager that Xi Jingping will still be in office. Europe will be a declining continent: technologically backward compared to NA and the Asia-Pacific, culturally and socially divided (I imagine US-style racial tensions will be fairly widespread), and politically fragmented. The US on the other-hand will have to adjust itself to a world where 'USA no.1!' is no longer true. Like all post-imperial powers they'll have to find a new role.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on December 20, 2018, 11:23:32 pm
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6516417/ISIS-terrorists-branded-two-murdered-Scandinavian-women-enemies-God.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on December 20, 2018, 11:36:30 pm
Spoiler

(https://scontent.fams1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48375608_599824593805050_6796333133676412928_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fams1-2.fna&oh=4b21963d6d3a8415d0744085bdf63908&oe=5CAAAF95)

(https://scontent.fams1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48416107_599825443804965_5518001474539356160_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fams1-1.fna&oh=0e86e3e1c58e0f864e7db58bbf4ea69e&oe=5CA058C3)

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Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on December 21, 2018, 06:20:52 am
Spoiler

(https://scontent.fams1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48375608_599824593805050_6796333133676412928_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fams1-2.fna&oh=4b21963d6d3a8415d0744085bdf63908&oe=5CAAAF95)

(https://scontent.fams1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48416107_599825443804965_5518001474539356160_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fams1-1.fna&oh=0e86e3e1c58e0f864e7db58bbf4ea69e&oe=5CA058C3)

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you gotta be shittin me...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on December 22, 2018, 06:00:07 am
Who on Earth thought it was a good idea to let two young blonde girls travel alone to a Sunni Islam dominated (aka extremist) country like Morocco?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on December 23, 2018, 10:01:39 pm
If anyone wants the beheading vid then gimme a PM, it's a bit fucked
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on December 23, 2018, 10:34:52 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNaf5XqVTmk

Try clicking the 'dislike' button on this video.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on December 24, 2018, 04:35:43 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNaf5XqVTmk

Try clicking the 'dislike' button on this video.

Comments shitting on the video getting thousands of thumbs up but the video supposedly only has 600 dislikes omegalul
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 24, 2018, 09:39:32 am
I think youtube automatically blocks likes and dislikes after a while, if they increase rapidly enough, to check if it's bots. After a while, it gets updated.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on December 24, 2018, 04:15:08 pm
oh look youtube not working properly what a surprise.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ted on December 25, 2018, 03:17:41 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZveA-NAIDI
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 25, 2018, 04:29:04 pm
Man who lives in a palace surrounded by priceless artworks urges people to 'shun materialism' and 'lead simpler lives':
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pope-francis-urges-people-to-forgo-materialism-for-simpler-life/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 25, 2018, 07:10:21 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZveA-NAIDI

You know what? Regardless of the accusations against him and whether or not he is guilty of those, those three minutes had me paying more attention then all the episodes of the new season of House of Cards I actually watched before realizing I didn't give two shits about Claire.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on December 25, 2018, 07:25:39 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZveA-NAIDI

You know what? Regardless of the accusations against him and whether or not he is guilty of those, those three minutes had me paying more attention then all the episodes of the new season of House of Cards I actually watched before realizing I didn't give two shits about Claire.
They should have just cancelled it. Claire was definitely manipulative but I never thought she would make a good lead, even if Spacey had dodged the accusations and the plot wasn't rewritten.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on December 25, 2018, 07:37:27 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZveA-NAIDI

You know what? Regardless of the accusations against him and whether or not he is guilty of those, those three minutes had me paying more attention then all the episodes of the new season of House of Cards I actually watched before realizing I didn't give two shits about Claire.
They should have just cancelled it. Claire was definitely manipulative but I never thought she would make a good lead, even if Spacey had dodged the accusations and the plot wasn't rewritten.
I think he should have died like he did in the BBC series, assassinated by his wife in order to protect his legacy. Season 5 wasn't even that good, the whole thing was just Frank surviving one threat to the next, never going on the offensive like he used to.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on December 26, 2018, 09:13:27 pm
RIP Germany https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/13444/germany-child-marriage-law
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ZeroNight on December 26, 2018, 09:18:16 pm
RIP Germany https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/13444/germany-child-marriage-law
well...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 27, 2018, 01:26:21 am
RIP Germany https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/13444/germany-child-marriage-law

Quote
The case involves a Syrian couple — a 14-year-old Syrian girl married to her 21-year-old cousin — who arrived in Germany at the height of the migrant crisis in August 2015.

In the UK that's very common in places like Bradford, Luton, Sheffield etc. More than half of British Pakistanis are married to their own cousin, and NHS hospitals in those areas have become highly specialised in treating genetic diseases. Can the German welfare state, already creaking from a rapidly aging population, be able to afford this? I doubt it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on December 27, 2018, 06:21:11 pm
Man who lives in a palace surrounded by priceless artworks urges people to 'shun materialism' and 'lead simpler lives':
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pope-francis-urges-people-to-forgo-materialism-for-simpler-life/
Like he has a choice. You think he can just say demolish Vatican City and make a simpler one? Not like he is trying to be less materialistic since the beginning of his reign.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Gi on December 27, 2018, 06:39:21 pm
https://youtu.be/ah9he0NZkhY
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on December 27, 2018, 11:31:44 pm
https://youtu.be/ah9he0NZkhY
Comments are the best part.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Gi on December 27, 2018, 11:42:11 pm
https://youtu.be/ah9he0NZkhY
Comments are the best part.
I didn't even bother watching the video, the title and comments alone were worth clicking on it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on December 28, 2018, 12:38:58 am
https://youtu.be/ah9he0NZkhY
Comments are the best part.
I didn't even bother watching the video, the title and comments alone were worth clicking on it.
I watched some random part in the middle and it says Antichrist have supernatural powers and that Macron's supernatural power is that he never sweats.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on December 28, 2018, 02:59:56 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuEDuye-JmE

Looks like a genuine dystopian nightmare.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on December 28, 2018, 03:14:52 am
Looks exactly how it looked like 9 years ago, when I was there
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on December 28, 2018, 04:25:49 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuEDuye-JmE

Looks like a genuine dystopian nightmare.
Litterally the most stupid video I've ever seen. It looks like any normal major city subway station, literally nothing to write home about.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on December 28, 2018, 05:26:35 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuEDuye-JmE

Looks like a genuine dystopian nightmare.
Litterally the most stupid video I've ever seen. It looks like any normal major city subway station, literally nothing to write home about.
You should see the San Fran stations, needles line every entrance.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Carolus. on December 28, 2018, 06:05:45 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuEDuye-JmE

Looks like a genuine dystopian nightmare.
Litterally the most stupid video I've ever seen. It looks like any normal major city subway station, literally nothing to write home about.

Really? Compare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzYucGccy2c
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on December 28, 2018, 07:53:13 am
It's a pretty abysmal and shoddy sight for the supposed 'City of Love'. In combination with the recent non-stop terrorist attacks and rioting, it's not hard to see why Paris' tourism has taken a nose-dive.

I can't speak for the rest of the world, but London's underground is spotless and I can't recall seeing any limbless, homeless Syrians during my last few visits. London itself is far from perfect, but at least its basic infrastructure isn't grossly neglected.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 28, 2018, 08:05:21 am
Moscow has the nicest looking metro/underground stations in Europe, and probably the world too. It's one of the few positive examples of Soviet architecture. Haven't been on it though, just judging by pictures/vids.

Paris Metro just looks like a slightly more rundown and dirtier version of the London Underground, it's pretty average (I've been on both). Nothing hideous but nor is there anything particularly beautiful about it either.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on December 28, 2018, 08:08:38 am
Paris Metro just looks like a slightly more rundown and dirtier version of the London Underground, it's pretty average (I've been on both). Nothing hideous but nor is there anything particularly beautiful about it either.

Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on December 28, 2018, 01:22:09 pm
I bet ceiling is ruined and dirty because immigrants shat on it with their acidic shit.
And Russian subway probably just looks good on pictures and there is a lot of dirty stuff in every corner you look, thats how things are in Russia usually.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 28, 2018, 03:20:48 pm
The Moscow subway looks good because the Russian government pomps a shitload of money into the city. Far more than other cities or especially the more rural regions of Russia, which co-incidentally are usually the regions where the natural wealth comes from. Wouldn't want a revolution to break out in your capital city, of course.   ::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 28, 2018, 04:58:22 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuEDuye-JmE

Looks like a genuine dystopian nightmare.
Litterally the most stupid video I've ever seen. It looks like any normal major city subway station, literally nothing to write home about.

Really? Compare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzYucGccy2c

Well tbf we have a lot of issues in Sweden but we're still pretty much the best country in the world to live in.
Unfortunately we've been going downhill for the last 10 years thanks to shitty politicians.

Obviously biased opinion.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on December 28, 2018, 05:12:05 pm
Well tbf we have a lot of issues in Sweden but we're still pretty much the best country in the world to live in.
Unfortunately we've been going downhill for the last 10 years thanks to shitty politicians.

Obviously biased opinion.

If we're looking at it objectively it's probably Switzerland, or maybe Australia. Sweden has long had dodgy politicians though (it took you until the 1970s to end your state eugenics programme!) it's not just the last 10 years.


The Moscow subway looks good because the Russian government pomps a shitload of money into the city. Far more than other cities or especially the more rural regions of Russia, which co-incidentally are usually the regions where the natural wealth comes from. Wouldn't want a revolution to break out in your capital city, of course.   ::)

The same could be said for just about every capital city lol.

The Moscow subway was built by the Soviet rather than the Russian government anyhow, back when Stalin wanted to make Moscow a more befitting imperial capital. I think the Soviets obsessed over the design because the actual railway was mostly built by contracted British engineers.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 28, 2018, 11:29:45 pm
In combination with the recent non-stop terrorist attacks and rioting, it's not hard to see why Paris' tourism has taken a nose-dive.


Paris has had non-stop protests for a long time now. Not just recent years. France is a protesting country and Paris the protesting capital.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 28, 2018, 11:50:45 pm
It's literally impossible to cross France and not be at some point victim of a strike or protest. Basic fact that anyone living next to France knows.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on December 29, 2018, 02:49:18 am
Paris has had non-stop protests for a long time now. Not just recent years. France is a protesting country and Paris the protesting capital.

And yet the French government does not consider declaring a state of emergency for each of those protests. In fact, we're a bit beyond a mere 'protest' now - that is unless the hundreds of masked men who were looting and fighting with authorities in the streets were protesting private property rights.

It's literally impossible to cross France and not be at some point victim of a strike or protest. Basic fact that anyone living next to France knows.

Well, that's nice. I personally couldn't give less of a shit about France, I just take delight in observing the many failures of sinking ''mainland'' European countries.  :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 29, 2018, 01:58:15 pm
Quote
And yet the French government does not consider declaring a state of emergency for each of those protests

Why would they?

Quote
Well, that's nice. I personally couldn't give less of a shit about France, I just take delight in observing the many failures of sinking ''mainland'' European countries.  :)

But you are acting like this is some sort of new thing. It's not. It's pretty standard and hardly comparable to the must more violent latter half of the 20th century. Especially in France, where the army was still doing coups in the 1960s. Stop pretending there was some sort of golden age and we're now only in decline.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 29, 2018, 11:39:21 pm
Ugh why can't people stop making such a fuss about ISIS. Their terror attacks in France are insignificant.

The London and Madrid Bombings, those were terror attacks that could bear the slightest form of significance.
Terror threats in recent years have been so fucking small... and the media loses their fucking minds when someone in Paris tries to stab a soldier near the Louvre, getting shot in the process.

Can people not see that ISIS holds no true power, never has and whatever it is they're planning is not going to destabilise any government, ever.

IT's getting tiring. And now people alledgedly avoid Paris because of terrorism?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on December 31, 2018, 03:20:26 am
Well, that's all well and good, but where's The Wall™?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 31, 2018, 01:52:10 pm
The Democrats will probably keep this going for a long time. It is a principle issue with them, and pretty much the only thing ever that will cause a united party.

I personally expect that at some point the Republicans will put their own pressure on Trump to let the idea of the wall slide.
But to be fair, I am not sure you can expect Trump to back away from this ridiculous idea.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on December 31, 2018, 02:16:17 pm
And in just a few days, the Republicans will lose their majority in the House anyway. Good luck getting anything done at all by that point.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Thunderstormer on December 31, 2018, 04:13:58 pm
I can already feel the campaign adds coming.    Pro Trump adds will talk about how it is desperately needed while the anti trump adds will say not only is it not necessary, but what happened to making mexico pay for it.  All of those rallies and other political statements about making mexico pay for it, then he shuts the government down(which he said he would own) until we pay for it.  The add basically writes itself.  Its going to be a fun 2 years.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on December 31, 2018, 04:53:47 pm
And the demise of The American Empire looms closer still.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on December 31, 2018, 09:32:11 pm
Probably inevitable, but I am unsure if most nations are truly prepared for the global repercussions. Even as one who hopes the fall of empire could facilitate some form of regional balkanization, I am not silly enough to posit it would not foster a period of very hard times.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on December 31, 2018, 10:12:38 pm
More then likely that Trump will be impeached but not trialed by the senate, meaning the house will vote yes, but the senate will vote no. Examples are Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on December 31, 2018, 11:22:41 pm
I'm really not sure that's a certainty. I would assume some Democrats in more conservative/toss-up districts would nay or abstain, additionally some of the more mainline Democrats may be opposed simply because the successor is Mike Pence, who is considerably more conservative than Trump is, and wouldn't likely result in any real political change in their favor while conversely maybe even making future elections more difficult.

While I wouldn't bet against it, I certainly don't think it would be the wisest use of their limited political capital.

Edit The impeachment process, rather it succeeds or fails, would probably have pretty bad electoral consequences for State-level Democrats in most States; it would also put the Democratic Governor of Louisiana at risk of losing reelection - that State being one of three having their gubernatorial race in 2019. This would all be frankly worse for Democrats than losing a few Congressional seats as a consequence, as in 2020 the State Legislatures will be able to control redistricting following reapportionment, reapportionment which already is leaning towards favoring Republican-leaning States.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 02, 2019, 03:23:15 pm
It's probably just easier to try to defeat Trump in 2020.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on January 02, 2019, 11:30:11 pm
It's easier and frankly electorally smarter. Rather or not that is the route they pursue is anyone's guess, the DNC have had a recent trend of [electorally] self-destructive actions.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 03, 2019, 02:11:06 am
Yeah. Beating Trump outright in 2020 looks far better for the Dems than impeachment.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 03, 2019, 04:53:38 pm
But to be fair, I am not sure you can expect Trump to back away from this ridiculous idea.

The idea of a wall isn't ridiculous. It's relatively cheap, very feasible to construct and already exists in places along the border.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 03, 2019, 08:53:01 pm
Except it won't work. 'The Wall'  already excists in the places where smuggling is at its highest. It does not stop people from crossing the border and it won't stop them if it were to extend it over the entire length of the border. Smugglers and refugees are already busting the myth a wall will stop them.

A tactical golden rule is that there are two types of obstacles: slowing and stopping.
Another golden rule is that in order for an obstacle to become stopping, it needs to be under eyes.

The U.S. already tried to put more eyes on the border line with heat-seeking and motion sensors. It hasn't gone terribly great thus far because the area, even with its natural obstacles such a mountains or deserts, is not stopping anybody.
Unless they are going to put a border guard wih a sniper rifle along the wall, shooting everyone trying to cross it, the wall will fail.

EDIT: as far as they "Yes but every bit helps"-argument, yes normally it would make sense but as I mentioned, border security is already at its practical maximum at the places where the smuggling happens and it hasn't changed anything. Building a wall in places there is no wall yet does not make one singel bit of sense, because nobody is going there anyway.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on January 03, 2019, 11:35:51 pm
How do you expect to stop people coming illegally into the country from the south without a big-ass wall in their path?

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on January 03, 2019, 11:46:34 pm
There's always the solution of simplifying the immigration code so more people have an incentive to do it legally and not have to empower drug cartels to smuggle them. However, illegal immigration will always exist. A wall might have the effect of lowering it, but considering the prevalence of tunnels, I'm not sure how effective it will be.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on January 04, 2019, 12:01:34 am
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/calling-all-snowflakes-your-country-needs-you-7g3tv2gqm?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 04, 2019, 02:07:20 pm
A border "wall" has been done before with relatively high effectiveness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_German_border

I think minefields work pretty well to stop people from crossing the border.
Sure, the Mexico US border is twice as long, but the US also has like 2012038120380 billion more citizens, soldiers and money than the GDR ever had.


So I wouldn't say its impossible.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 04, 2019, 02:56:55 pm
No wall is 100% effective, but will it significantly cut down illegal land crossings? Yes.

I don't see how you can logically argue it won't work given they do everywhere else. Even Obama had one built for his own home (which for some reason the media are claiming isn't a wall, yet clearly is).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 04, 2019, 03:04:06 pm
I mean, builing a wall around your home and building a wall along a border to stop mass immigration are two different things, but yes. It just needs to be properly done.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 04, 2019, 07:11:29 pm
Minefields would never be accepted as an alternative here. Although, if it is a form of sonic weaponry and not explosive with temporary side-effects, than maybe it could get past Congress, but even then it's a stretch. Another thing to take into account is that many people see using tear gas to stop immigrants rushing a fence and tearing it down as barbaric. If that is seen as a bridge too far, I can't imagine the reaction to mines being littered across the border being any better.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 04, 2019, 11:04:37 pm
And that is still ignoring the fact AP-mines are illegal =P

Sonic weaponry to temporarily decapacitate people would be shot down too, considering the natural environment in the area, people would die of heat exposure, dehydration or fall prey to wild animals (if there are any). Even with experienced smugglers the death toll of the crossing is considerable.

A border "wall" has been done before with relatively high effectiveness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_German_border

I think minefields work pretty well to stop people from crossing the border.
Sure, the Mexico US border is twice as long, but the US also has like 2012038120380 billion more citizens, soldiers and money than the GDR ever had.


So I wouldn't say its impossible.

Maybe not but that wall was also notorious in the fact that you'd be shot on sight being seen to cross it. That's a fear factor you couldn't ignore.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on January 04, 2019, 11:24:45 pm
312.000 news jobs in December in the US. Trump is on a roll.  8)

Where are the end of the world prophets now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8cKAEurGC8
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 05, 2019, 01:00:41 am
312.000 news jobs in December in the US. Trump is on a roll.  8)

Where are the end of the world prophets now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8cKAEurGC8
Can confirm, somehow me and my friends got jobs. Economy is on a roll, although I'd like it if we invested into fixing the infrastructure, for even shit that gets done in that section can take years, if not decades.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on January 05, 2019, 02:48:05 am
Sonic weaponry to temporarily decapacitate people...

I swear I read that as 'temporarily decapitate'. I thought it was pretty amusing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 05, 2019, 10:16:46 pm
Sonic weaponry to temporarily decapacitate people...

I swear I read that as 'temporarily decapitate'. I thought it was pretty amusing.

=P PArt of the reason I use it. It's one of these 'fancy slang words' you hear every now and again used by LEOs and military.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 06, 2019, 12:07:27 am
If I got a nickle for every time someone working for the militairy uses slang, I'd buy the Dutch army a Leopard tank.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on January 06, 2019, 02:04:34 am
Sonic weaponry to temporarily decapacitate people...

I swear I read that as 'temporarily decapitate'. I thought it was pretty amusing.

=P PArt of the reason I use it. It's one of these 'fancy slang words' you hear every now and again used by LEOs and military.

I've only ever heard 'incapacitate'.

If I got a nickle for every time someone working for the militairy uses slang, I'd buy the Dutch army a Leopard tank.

And double its arsenal, no doubt!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 06, 2019, 10:55:21 am
Apparantly we're getting the tanks back. Because you know, they're so useful and cost-effective.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 06, 2019, 01:27:40 pm
Wait what.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 06, 2019, 02:13:17 pm
Apparantly we're getting the tanks back. Because you know, they're so useful and cost-effective.

???

You can't fight a modern war without tanks. What makes you think they're not useful?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 06, 2019, 02:19:10 pm
If I got a nickle for every time someone working for the militairy uses slang, I'd buy the Dutch army a Leopard tank.

=(

Apparantly we're getting the tanks back. Because you know, they're so useful and cost-effective.
If you want to see if it's a good idea to get rid of military equipment, look around you to other countries.
Nobody else is selling all their tanks, so why should we?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 06, 2019, 02:40:00 pm
Germany sold like thousands of their tanks and now suddenly wants more again. Its just things that Politicians do.
 "Oh, we need to get rid of half our military, we no longer need it" - 2 minutes later: "Oh, I think we need a larger military, now that the situation has changed"


So, did the NL actually sell their tanks or did they just decommission them and store them somewhere? I never quite understood why a country would sell perfectly fine military equipment. Wouldn't it make more sense to just store it somewhere, in case you might need it later? It costs more than selling your tanks, but it will still be cheaper and faster than buying it all new.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 06, 2019, 03:26:31 pm
So, did the NL actually sell their tanks or did they just decommission them and store them somewhere? I never quite understood why a country would sell perfectly fine military equipment. Wouldn't it make more sense to just store it somewhere, in case you might need it later? It costs more than selling your tanks, but it will still be cheaper and faster than buying it all new.

Sold most of them to Norway I believe. And to some shithole coutries.
It is not cheaper to store them. They still need regular maintenance and the location where they're stored needs to be under constant guard.
Getting rid of tanks doesn't mean you're going to get rid of just vehicles. You are getting rid of maintenance infrastructure, spare parts and storage, ammunition and the whole infrastructure behind that, personnel to operate tanks, training facilities plus staff and logistics, staff capacity.

Just storing tanks wouldn't solve the problem of it being expensive to bring them back. The thing that makes it more expensive than just buying new stuff is that it takes a couple of years to get tanks operational in a unit again. The costs are there.
Also, the time tanks are in storage not being used, they're also not being kept current. If you're storing tanks for 8 years, after you've been using them for ten years already, the second they're going to get out of storage, they will require a midlife-cycle upgrade. That is going to cost a couple of million per tank. No the current construction is much cheaper. We steal everything from the German motorpool and only pay for it if the tanks are deployed.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 06, 2019, 04:50:54 pm
They're not useful because we're not fighting any modern wars in which we need tanks. Where will they be deployed? Mali? Cyprus? I bet they won't even be part of the Baltic mission because that's too expensive. There are a million ways to invest that money better instead of buying maybe a batallion worth of tanks.

We sold our tanks to Finland, after a deal with Indonesia busted.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 06, 2019, 05:29:45 pm
I thought big bad Russia was waiting in the wings and the EU had to quickly arm itself with its own military?

If the Dutch can't afford tanks then they can't fight a modern war, so what's the point in spending vast sums on your defence budget? Why bother buying loads of F-35s etc? Might as well just have an Irish style defence force, let other countries come to your defence if needed and spend the money elsewhere. I get you usually go in with other partners, but it makes a lot more sense to hide behind German/EU re-armament.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 06, 2019, 06:05:34 pm
Quote
If the Dutch can't afford tanks then they can't fight a modern war,

Because tanks play such a incredible big role in all the conflicts we're fighting today, right? No, they don't. We send scouts to Mali, infantry to the Baltic states, F-16s to Jordan and ships all over the place. Tanks would do absolutely nothing and serve purely as a PR-tool. That money can be spend way more effectively. Don't get me wrong, if we would place those tanks in Latvia or Lithuania I'd be all for it. But we won't.

Quote
Why bother buying loads of F-35s etc?

I'm just gonna assume that question is not meant serious and you can tell the difference between the political and militairy reasons to buy a jet and not a tank. Especially considering the sort of missions we actually perform with our military.

Quote
I get you usually go in with other partners, but it makes a lot more sense to hide behind German/EU re-armament.

Even if we get more tanks (because we do have them, a whopping twelve), they're 99% sure going to be part of the Mechanized Brigade, and thus part of the 1st German Panzerdivision. So whether we get tanks or not really doesn't make any political difference.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 06, 2019, 07:52:25 pm
So, did the NL actually sell their tanks or did they just decommission them and store them somewhere? I never quite understood why a country would sell perfectly fine military equipment. Wouldn't it make more sense to just store it somewhere, in case you might need it later? It costs more than selling your tanks, but it will still be cheaper and faster than buying it all new.

Sold most of them to Norway I believe. And to some shithole coutries.
It is not cheaper to store them. They still need regular maintenance and the location where they're stored needs to be under constant guard.
Getting rid of tanks doesn't mean you're going to get rid of just vehicles. You are getting rid of maintenance infrastructure, spare parts and storage, ammunition and the whole infrastructure behind that, personnel to operate tanks, training facilities plus staff and logistics, staff capacity.

Just storing tanks wouldn't solve the problem of it being expensive to bring them back. The thing that makes it more expensive than just buying new stuff is that it takes a couple of years to get tanks operational in a unit again. The costs are there.
Also, the time tanks are in storage not being used, they're also not being kept current. If you're storing tanks for 8 years, after you've been using them for ten years already, the second they're going to get out of storage, they will require a midlife-cycle upgrade. That is going to cost a couple of million per tank. No the current construction is much cheaper. We steal everything from the German motorpool and only pay for it if the tanks are deployed.

Alright, good arguments there. I did not think about the infrastructure behind that. I admit defeat :P
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Charles Caldwell on January 06, 2019, 08:00:02 pm
"England Lost to Belgium in the World Cup this year, 2-0..... can we play it again until we get the result we want please! "

Democracy has been mostly forgotten by many in the EU, but thankfully not by everyone. The referendum was voted on, and the remain lost, deal with it!

Out means OUT! (despite the Globalist Elite best efforts)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 06, 2019, 08:11:59 pm
Don't compare politics and democracy to sports.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Charles Caldwell on January 06, 2019, 08:17:10 pm
Don't compare politics and democracy to sports.

Why not? One group didnt get the result they wanted, and wish it played again (the 'Peoples' or I like to say the 'Losers' Vote) thinking they will win the second time around!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 06, 2019, 08:47:21 pm
Spoiler
Quote
If the Dutch can't afford tanks then they can't fight a modern war,

Because tanks play such a incredible big role in all the conflicts we're fighting today, right? No, they don't. We send scouts to Mali, infantry to the Baltic states, F-16s to Jordan and ships all over the place. Tanks would do absolutely nothing and serve purely as a PR-tool. That money can be spend way more effectively. Don't get me wrong, if we would place those tanks in Latvia or Lithuania I'd be all for it. But we won't.

Quote
Why bother buying loads of F-35s etc?

I'm just gonna assume that question is not meant serious and you can tell the difference between the political and militairy reasons to buy a jet and not a tank. Especially considering the sort of missions we actually perform with our military.

Quote
I get you usually go in with other partners, but it makes a lot more sense to hide behind German/EU re-armament.

Even if we get more tanks (because we do have them, a whopping twelve), they're 99% sure going to be part of the Mechanized Brigade, and thus part of the 1st German Panzerdivision. So whether we get tanks or not really doesn't make any political difference.
[close]

The point I'm making is that the Dutch might be better off giving up any pretence of being a military power and simply spend the money on other projects. If others have agreed to die on your behalf then it's viable from a security perspective. And even so, what's the point in spending good money on it simply to hand it over to German control as part of an EU military union?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 06, 2019, 08:50:48 pm
Spoiler
Quote
If the Dutch can't afford tanks then they can't fight a modern war,

Because tanks play such a incredible big role in all the conflicts we're fighting today, right? No, they don't. We send scouts to Mali, infantry to the Baltic states, F-16s to Jordan and ships all over the place. Tanks would do absolutely nothing and serve purely as a PR-tool. That money can be spend way more effectively. Don't get me wrong, if we would place those tanks in Latvia or Lithuania I'd be all for it. But we won't.

Quote
Why bother buying loads of F-35s etc?

I'm just gonna assume that question is not meant serious and you can tell the difference between the political and militairy reasons to buy a jet and not a tank. Especially considering the sort of missions we actually perform with our military.

Quote
I get you usually go in with other partners, but it makes a lot more sense to hide behind German/EU re-armament.

Even if we get more tanks (because we do have them, a whopping twelve), they're 99% sure going to be part of the Mechanized Brigade, and thus part of the 1st German Panzerdivision. So whether we get tanks or not really doesn't make any political difference.
[close]

The point I'm making is that the Dutch might be better off giving up any pretence of being a military power and simply spend the money on other projects. If others have agreed to die on your behalf then it's viable from a security perspective. And even so, what's the point in spending good money on it simply to hand it over to German control as part of an EU military union?

Not really how an alliance works. That's like saying Belgium might as well have abolished its army in 1914 because Britain would guard its neutrality.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Charles Caldwell on January 06, 2019, 09:38:28 pm

The point I'm making is that the Dutch might be better off giving up any pretence of being a military power and simply spend the money on other projects. If others have agreed to die on your behalf then it's viable from a security perspective.

That's what most within NATO think! I think from memory only a few Nations meet their budget requirements for defence......
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 06, 2019, 10:36:44 pm
Spoiler
Quote
If the Dutch can't afford tanks then they can't fight a modern war,

Because tanks play such a incredible big role in all the conflicts we're fighting today, right? No, they don't. We send scouts to Mali, infantry to the Baltic states, F-16s to Jordan and ships all over the place. Tanks would do absolutely nothing and serve purely as a PR-tool. That money can be spend way more effectively. Don't get me wrong, if we would place those tanks in Latvia or Lithuania I'd be all for it. But we won't.

Quote
Why bother buying loads of F-35s etc?

I'm just gonna assume that question is not meant serious and you can tell the difference between the political and militairy reasons to buy a jet and not a tank. Especially considering the sort of missions we actually perform with our military.

Quote
I get you usually go in with other partners, but it makes a lot more sense to hide behind German/EU re-armament.

Even if we get more tanks (because we do have them, a whopping twelve), they're 99% sure going to be part of the Mechanized Brigade, and thus part of the 1st German Panzerdivision. So whether we get tanks or not really doesn't make any political difference.
[close]

The point I'm making is that the Dutch might be better off giving up any pretence of being a military power and simply spend the money on other projects. If others have agreed to die on your behalf then it's viable from a security perspective. And even so, what's the point in spending good money on it simply to hand it over to German control as part of an EU military union?

Not really how an alliance works. That's like saying Belgium might as well have abolished its army in 1914 because Britain would guard its neutrality.

Except there was an obvious military threat in 1914, whereas in 2019 there isn't. We've all reluctantly accepted de facto German dominance of the continent as the price for peace. Not a bad bargain tbh, even if Germany sometimes takes out its own self-loathing on the rest of us.



The point I'm making is that the Dutch might be better off giving up any pretence of being a military power and simply spend the money on other projects. If others have agreed to die on your behalf then it's viable from a security perspective.

That's what most within NATO think! I think from memory only a few Nations meet their budget requirements for defence......

Yep, the Dutch could very easily have an Irish-style defence force and spend the money on other stuff. If Germany wants a German-run EU military then why should the Dutch pay for it?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 07, 2019, 10:35:43 pm

Because tanks play such a incredible big role in all the conflicts we're fighting today, right? No, they don't.
Because we're not fighting an interstate conflict right now, hello.

 
We send scouts to Mali,
Because we wanted a seat at the Security Council and there was a requirement for an ISR component that fit exactly what the Dutch are good at. it failed, but come on, it's a UN mission, what did we expect.

infantry to the Baltic states,

Mechanised infantry. We sent tanks to Norway with Mechanised infantry. Also the eFP is not there to actually fight. It's an insurance to ther Baltics NATO will fight if the Baltics egt attacked. Sending tanks there that would be destroyed anyway would be a wasted loss.

F-16s to Jordan and ships all over the place.
First one because it was asked for and it was the only low-risk operation we could lay our hands on. Second one because it is literally the most Duitch thing to do.

Tanks would do absolutely nothing and serve purely as a PR-tool. That money can be spend way more effectively. Don't get me wrong, if we would place those tanks in Latvia or Lithuania I'd be all for it. But we won't.
Because of aforementioned reasons. the Dutch CHOSE to not deploy tanks to Afghanistan, in spite of the Norwegians (I think) and the Canadians choosing so anyway.
Just because we don't have a mission that could involves tanks now, doesn't mean we'll ever get one. Serbia is stirring shit again, who know if something blows up anywhere. It is not likely, but it is really not an expensive insurance to have when you need it.
The reasoning you're offering is as if we'd never get a regular war again on the European continent. This is simply too uncertain to tell, and considering other countries aren't selling theirs, we shouldn;t either.

Then again, personally I don't like how the tanks are gone about now in the NL. As a small country we can make ourselves much more relevant elsewhere by jumping into niches, we barely do and that's a shame. Unitl the NL state in their development strategies for the militayr they want to fill exclusively a niche role, then we can do out with the tanks, until then, we need them. Not very hard, but we do.


Quote
Why bother buying loads of F-35s etc?
I'm just gonna assume that question is not meant serious and you can tell the difference between the political and militairy reasons to buy a jet and not a tank. Especially considering the sort of missions we actually perform with our military.
I'll grace it with an answer:
Intel

Same reason we are buying Predators and buying Hornets for Recces. The Netherlands is a budding ISR/intel military.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 07, 2019, 10:38:36 pm

The point I'm making is that the Dutch might be better off giving up any pretence of being a military power and simply spend the money on other projects. If others have agreed to die on your behalf then it's viable from a security perspective.

The Dutch is more of a military power than you think... Just not in the absolute numbers kind of way.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 07, 2019, 11:00:18 pm
Quote
Because we're not fighting an interstate conflict right now, hello.

And when we do, our twelve tanks will surely tip the balance.

I know why we perform these missions. It's not like those motives are hidden anyway.

Quote
Also the eFP is not there to actually fight. It's an insurance to ther Baltics NATO will fight if the Baltics egt attacked.

More of a insurance there will be public support for envoking article 5 after there are Dutch and British casualties on TV after a possible Russian attack. But that's pretty much the same thing, I guess. This may sound cynical, but it's one of the best decisions taken in recent years.
Quote
I'll grace it with an answer:
Intel

I have to disagree with you there. Like you said yourselves, airplanes allow you to run low-risk operations. The benefits of showing your involvement in the world with the minimum amount of risk. If you don't have tanks, you can't be asked to send them to some UN mission and get them put out of action by a African childsoldier with a RPG. We don't need our Armed Forces for national defence, just for national interests. Like bombing people in Syria. The decisions to invest in the airforce (and in the military in general) is for political reasons, not for actual military reasons.

Quote
The reasoning you're offering is as if we'd never get a regular war again on the European continent. This is simply too uncertain to tell, and considering other countries aren't selling theirs, we shouldn;t either.

But we did sell them.

Quote
Serbia is stirring shit again

And if they do, like in the 90s, we'll send airplanes to bomb them. We will never send any ground forces to the Balkan ever again. Not after Srebrenica.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 07, 2019, 11:28:55 pm

The point I'm making is that the Dutch might be better off giving up any pretence of being a military power and simply spend the money on other projects. If others have agreed to die on your behalf then it's viable from a security perspective.

The Dutch is more of a military power than you think... Just not in the absolute numbers kind of way.

I agree that the Dutch can obviously make significant contributions to NATO efforts etc. But you're now tying yourselves in to a supranational military union over which you'll have very little control. Is it seriously in the Dutch national interest to pay billions of Euros for military toys that will be controlled from Berlin?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 07, 2019, 11:34:41 pm
But they're not. The Brigade doesn't go anywhere or doesn't do anything without approval from the Dutch government. They're not part of the German army and it would literally take the stroke of a pen to abolish the cooperation. Berlin is not controlling anything, just like we're not controlling the German elements within the brigade or the British marines with which we work together a shitton. It's not different from a unified command.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 08, 2019, 02:05:40 am
But they're not. The Brigade doesn't go anywhere or doesn't do anything without approval from the Dutch government. They're not part of the German army and it would literally take the stroke of a pen to abolish the cooperation. Berlin is not controlling anything, just like we're not controlling the German elements within the brigade or the British marines with which we work together a shitton. It's not different from a unified command.

I'm not talking about that but rather a future EU Military Union, which would have to be structured in a way that prevented member states from vetoing deployments. Even
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 08, 2019, 09:41:46 am
It would have to be? Says who?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 08, 2019, 11:12:18 am
It would have to be? Says who?

For a whole bunch of reasons.
1) This EU military union is supposed to be about deterring Russia. If you give Putin's mates in Budapest and elsewhere the power of veto over its deployments then that doesn't really work.
2) Having 27 potential vetoes over EU military policy would render it essentially useless
3) France is not about to give Luxembourg or Malta a veto over where it moves its tanks
4) The EU is moving away from the national veto in general anyway

...and most importantly
5) Germany is not going to give up as big a prize as this
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 08, 2019, 12:08:20 pm
Ah, says you. Okay.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 08, 2019, 01:48:00 pm
Quote
Because we're not fighting an interstate conflict right now, hello.

And when we do, our twelve tanks will surely tip the balance.

More are coming. There are concrete plans now to expand to batallion size.

Quote
I'll grace it with an answer:
Intel

I have to disagree with you there. Like you said yourselves, airplanes allow you to run low-risk operations. The benefits of showing your involvement in the world with the minimum amount of risk. If you don't have tanks, you can't be asked to send them to some UN mission and get them put out of action by a African childsoldier with a RPG. We don't need our Armed Forces for national defence, just for national interests. Like bombing people in Syria. The decisions to invest in the airforce (and in the military in general) is for political reasons, not for actual military reasons.

Yes it was mainly a political reason to invest in newer aircraft. Yes the decision to go to the F35 was also mostly political. The other, military, side of it, is that the Netherlands, who already have a reputation of having a high efficiency with IMINT (any intel, really), can fly mostly recon flights. The number of aircraft could have been made bigger, but that wasn't the point.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 09, 2019, 01:14:07 am
Trump still trolling lol
https://www.dw.com/en/trump-administration-downgrades-eu-mission-to-us/a-46990608

Quote
The unannounced move by the US State Department, which has not previously been reported, downgraded the EU delegation's diplomatic status in Washington from member state to international organization.

"We don't exactly know when they did it, because they conveniently forgot to notify us," an EU official who is familiar with the matter told DW in an interview.


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 09, 2019, 08:56:33 am
He is actually starting to do harm now... He's literally making this up as he goes. Just like when that journalist asked him if he was going to declare state of emergency over the border wall, he literally got the idea there and then and just throws it out there.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on January 09, 2019, 09:34:09 am
You must have amazing insight.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 09, 2019, 10:00:26 am
Yeah I am clairvoyant actually.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on January 09, 2019, 10:08:22 am
How could I harness this power?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 09, 2019, 10:13:12 am
He is actually starting to do harm now... He's literally making this up as he goes. Just like when that journalist asked him if he was going to declare state of emergency over the border wall, he literally got the idea there and then and just throws it out there.

Nah he's hilarious. Next stop should be targeting Brussels representation at the G7/G20. Why are they even there?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on January 09, 2019, 10:27:38 am
(https://images.hellogiggles.com/uploads/2019/01/02131905/Trump2.jpg)

I can appreciate a god-tier troll when I see one
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 09, 2019, 11:17:08 am
Not a photoshop
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on January 09, 2019, 10:32:03 pm
Does he watch Game of Thrones? That's what I've been wondering
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 10, 2019, 07:50:13 am
(https://brainstats.com/static/98cd4bbec3b147659e3686e5b5d4b5c2/631a7/map.png)

Data from IQ and Inequality book from 2006.

Probably one of the worst books ever written. Basically says half of Africa is mentally retarded.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 10, 2019, 01:14:50 pm
Was it written in China?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 10, 2019, 02:06:13 pm
Was it written in China?
Psychologist from England and Finnish political 'scientists'  (big science lads) wrote it. And in what world would China allow Japan to have such high IQ.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 10, 2019, 04:14:35 pm
Did you know that if you use 100% of your brain, you get godlike powers? true story.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 10, 2019, 05:32:00 pm
Did you know that if you use 100% of your brain, you get godlike powers? true story.
Some Dr. Manhattan level shit, except without getting zapped and all that stuff.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on January 10, 2019, 06:13:36 pm
Was it written in China?
And in what world would China allow Japan to have such high IQ.

Funny but true.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 10, 2019, 06:22:06 pm
Did you know that if you use 100% of your brain, you get godlike powers? true story.
Did you know that if you use 10% of received donations, you can release BCoF by now. true story
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on January 10, 2019, 06:30:42 pm
That's pretty good
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 10, 2019, 08:10:53 pm
lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 14, 2019, 12:13:06 pm
Brexit vote tomorrow. Got to say, most people expect a no-vote and tend to agree, but it would be quite the meme if the British parliament just gives in and supports the deal.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 14, 2019, 12:45:34 pm
Nah. Fuck the country I guess.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 14, 2019, 02:30:52 pm
Brexit vote tomorrow. Got to say, most people expect a no-vote and tend to agree, but it would be quite the meme if the British parliament just gives in and supports the deal.

You're better off having a poll on the scale of the defeat lol. I expect it'll be something in the region of 130.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on January 14, 2019, 05:02:09 pm
Deep Inside i am hoping for the biggest possible Meme: UK withdrawing from Brexit due to imposibillity to get a deal through parliament.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 14, 2019, 05:41:17 pm
Can they even do that at this point?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: stevve on January 14, 2019, 06:06:02 pm
Can they even do that at this point?
Yep, that would probably lead to years of political unrest in the UK (especially in England).
But it doesn't look like May is staying much longer. ^^
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on January 14, 2019, 06:16:14 pm
Can they even do that at this point?
Yep, that would probably lead to years of political unrest in the UK (especially in England).
But it doesn't look like May is staying much longer. ^^
Regarding to the ECJ they can in Fact:
https://twitter.com/EUCourtPress/status/1072039706123210752?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1072039706123210752&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.faz.net%2Faktuell%2Fbrexit%2Feugh-grossbritannien-duerfte-brexit-austrittserklaerung-zuruecknehmen-15934032.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 14, 2019, 06:42:09 pm
Can they even do that at this point?

Is it legally possible? Yes, but even if it wasn't that doesn't matter. Plenty of illegal things happen in the EU so long as the political will is there.

Now in other news, as Germany heads into recession whilst Britain has the highest GDP growth of any major EU member state, I'd like to take this opportunity to gloat about how wrong Duuring's predictions of economic doom have turned out.  ;)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 14, 2019, 06:54:24 pm
Can they even do that at this point?

Is it legally possible? Yes, but even if it wasn't that doesn't matter. Plenty of illegal things happen in the EU so long as the political will is there.

Now in other news, as Germany heads into recession whilst Britain has the highest GDP growth of any major EU member state, I'd like to take this opportunity to gloat about how wrong Duuring's predictions of economic doom have turned out.  ;)
?
UK had lower gdp growth than Germany and France in 2018. You were probably looking at inflation rate. Plus UK is still a member of EU. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 14, 2019, 07:09:29 pm
Can they even do that at this point?

Is it legally possible? Yes, but even if it wasn't that doesn't matter. Plenty of illegal things happen in the EU so long as the political will is there.

Now in other news, as Germany heads into recession whilst Britain has the highest GDP growth of any major EU member state, I'd like to take this opportunity to gloat about how wrong Duuring's predictions of economic doom have turned out.  ;)
?
UK had lower gdp growth than Germany and France in 2018. You were probably looking at inflation rate. Plus UK is still a member of EU.

I understand the difference between GDP, inflation, PMI etc. I read investor briefings on a weekly (if not daily) basis for work. Go back and look at the figures again.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 14, 2019, 07:27:41 pm
Can they even do that at this point?

Is it legally possible? Yes, but even if it wasn't that doesn't matter. Plenty of illegal things happen in the EU so long as the political will is there.

Now in other news, as Germany heads into recession whilst Britain has the highest GDP growth of any major EU member state, I'd like to take this opportunity to gloat about how wrong Duuring's predictions of economic doom have turned out.  ;)
?
UK had lower gdp growth than Germany and France in 2018. You were probably looking at inflation rate. Plus UK is still a member of EU.

I understand the difference between GDP, inflation, PMI etc. I read investor briefings on a weekly (if not daily) basis for work. Go back and look at the figures again.
Yep clearly says:
Germany 1.7
France 1.6
UK 1.3
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 14, 2019, 08:21:59 pm
Pete, Q4 figures for 2018 haven't even been released yet. Where are you getting your information from?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 14, 2019, 08:53:22 pm
Pete, Q4 figures for 2018 haven't even been released yet. Where are you getting your information from?
Goldman Sachs Global Investment Research

Edit:
big link (https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/pages/european-outlook-2019.html?cid=sch-pd-google-europeanoutlook19-searchad-201812-----&mkwid=n4IaKDBa&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_eKRqZ3u3wIVQqqaCh2fHAdWEAAYASAAEgIn5PD_BwE)

Also it is not just German recession it is whole world if you haven't noticed. Untill Federal Reserve isn't killed this will keep repeating.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 14, 2019, 10:22:00 pm
This is for the second quarter in 2018 (https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/9102849/2-07092018-AP-EN/5ee25c3b-4e58-40df-9be9-7671859d6f37)
First quarter as compared to year before. (https://www.statista.com/statistics/263008/gdp-growth-in-eu-countries-compared-to-same-quarter-previous-year/)
For 2017 (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=EU)
total of 2018 and projections for 2019 and 2020 (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/nov/08/uk-economic-growth-slowest-europe-next-year-european-commission-forecasts-brexit)

I really think you should read the briefings more carefully


That's EU, Statista and World Bank sources. The last one is the Guardian but really Steve?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 14, 2019, 11:01:06 pm
Thank God Greece is projected to gain more than 1.0.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on January 14, 2019, 11:09:59 pm
Can they even do that at this point?

Is it legally possible? Yes, but even if it wasn't that doesn't matter. Plenty of illegal things happen in the EU so long as the political will is there.

Now in other news, as Germany heads into recession whilst Britain has the highest GDP growth of any major EU member state, I'd like to take this opportunity to gloat about how wrong Duuring's predictions of economic doom have turned out.  ;)
How the fuck are we heading into recession? And that the gross domestic product of a nation that is just about to isolate themself from the biggest (once again) domestic market is not any sign for a developing economy but just a sign that the british have reason enough to prepare their economy to be more self sustainable as they will lack ton of shit from markets they had access to before.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 15, 2019, 12:05:03 am
I really think you should read the briefings more carefully

Riddlez you're selectively quoting quarters rather than looking at 2018 as a whole, then putting forward irrelevant projections for 2019/2020 which have already been proven wrong. For example that Guardian article is based on EU projections that have already been made to look ridiculous given recent economic news out of France and especially Germany. This is the published 2018 data thus far which show the UK is the fastest growing major EU economy:
Q1-UK 0.1%, GER 0.4%, FRA 0.2%, ITA 0.3%
Q2-UK 0.4%, GER 0.5%, FRA 0.2%, ITA 0.2%
Q3-UK 0.6%, GER -0.2%, FRA 0.3%, ITA -0.1%

Q4 is yet to be published but based on PMI data, business confidence surveys (etc) they all point to a second consecutive quarter of German economic contraction, which is the technical definition of a recession.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-europes-biggest-economy-is-in-danger-of-entering-a-technical-recession-2019-01-14

And Pete, that Goldman document is itself a forecast which shouldn't be taken as factual economic data. For example here's what they forecasted for Germany:
Quote
At -0.2%qoq, Q3 GDP growth was significantly weaker than we expected (before Euro area Q3 GDP had been published)...While growth has decelerated from last year’s 2.5%yoy pace, these two factors exaggerate the weakness in Q3 and point to a Q4 rebound

They acknowledged they got it wrong for Q3, made up some excuses as to why that was the case and then made a Q4 prediction that's now totally wrong too. You gonna trust their 2019 and 2020 predictions? Lol.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 15, 2019, 05:12:12 am
The only thing I trust in is my AR-15
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 15, 2019, 05:31:41 am
Joke, I only own beautiful guns.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 15, 2019, 09:25:00 am
I'm curious what happens to those numbers after no-deal Brexit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 15, 2019, 10:40:20 am
I'm curious what happens to those numbers after no-deal Brexit.

It would push both sides into a recession, I'd imagine.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 15, 2019, 11:35:01 am
I'd be amused if it wouldn't hurt the Dutch economy so much. That's kinda my whole feel with this thing. It would be fun to watch a country wreck itself, it's just that it will drag us down with it.

Is there any reliable economic model that predicts the British economy would grow after brexit?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 15, 2019, 12:44:12 pm
I'd be amused if it wouldn't hurt the Dutch economy so much. That's kinda my whole feel with this thing. It would be fun to watch a country wreck itself, it's just that it will drag us down with it.

Is there any reliable economic model that predicts the British economy would grow after brexit?

There's a few people who think it will, mainly Patrick Minford's grouping: https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/who-we-are/
Minford is quite famous for being an early backer of Thatcherism when most economists were strongly against it. He's often in the minority, and has often been proven right.

Then there's people like Ashoka Mody or Paul Krugman who think the effect will be very limited, with potentially some short term disruption thrown in. I tend to side more with Mody's analysis simply because his track record on EU economics has been pretty good. I think Brexit means a slight drag on UK GDP growth in the short term, almost certainly some disruption in Q2/Q3 of 2019 and that'll be about it. Predictions of -10% or whatever are just silly.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 15, 2019, 03:30:25 pm
We'll see.

Edit: Yikes
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dw6HBSpWwAIg5r2.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 15, 2019, 06:09:53 pm
The vote isn't for another three hours Duuring, that's a Sky News prediction.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 15, 2019, 06:33:27 pm
I know.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 15, 2019, 06:50:08 pm
Joke, I only own beautiful guns.
AR-15 is sexy, but then again I think the G36 and C7 are beauties as well.  :P
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 15, 2019, 09:07:41 pm
May's government just spend their entire mandate on getting a deal that was just defeated 202-430ish and she actually wants to stay. Really changing the unwritten rules here.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 15, 2019, 09:21:14 pm
So is Corbyn going to make a move?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 15, 2019, 09:24:29 pm
He filed a motion of no confidence, which will be debated and voted upon tomorrow. Then we'll see.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 15, 2019, 09:31:59 pm
So is Corbyn going to make a move?

He'll call a no confidence vote, May will win it (already has confirmed DUP backing) and that'll enable her to stay on for a bit longer. Corbyn is a bit thick and this is the kind of dumb move he'd make.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on January 15, 2019, 09:35:10 pm
Joke, I only own beautiful guns.

I guess Germans only like weird-looking fish guns that melt after extended use.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 15, 2019, 09:39:03 pm
Joke, I only own beautiful guns.

I guess Germans only like weird-looking fish guns that melt after extended use.

Wasn't overheating one of the issues with the AR-15?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ted on January 15, 2019, 09:54:05 pm
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-06/10/10/enhanced/webdr06/anigif_enhanced-4259-1402410964-28.gif)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 15, 2019, 09:57:25 pm
Joke, I only own beautiful guns.

I guess Germans only like weird-looking fish guns that melt after extended use.

Wasn't overheating one of the issues with the AR-15?
It does get hot relatively quickly (usually after the first 30 rounds), but you have to really push the limit for it to become a serious issue, at least from what I’ve seen.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 15, 2019, 10:32:07 pm
and C7 are beauties as well.  :P

Can you please.... PLEASE not say anything positive about the C7?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 15, 2019, 10:36:39 pm
Anything after 1889 is ugly.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on January 15, 2019, 10:41:19 pm
Joke, I only own beautiful guns.

I guess Germans only like weird-looking fish guns that melt after extended use.

Wasn't overheating one of the issues with the AR-15?

Overheating issues are a bit of a degree away from polymer furniture literally melting.

Edit I am also unaware of any widespread heat problems when the platform was rolled out as an A1
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 15, 2019, 10:44:15 pm
See, a Charleville only overheats when its like 30+ degrees outside and you fire 10 shots.
No polymer that can melt after firing 5k shots because you can't fire 5k shots anyway.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 16, 2019, 02:17:11 am
and C7 are beauties as well.  :P

Can you please.... PLEASE not say anything positive about the C7?
Wait, that shit is used outside of Canada and Norway?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 16, 2019, 02:23:39 pm
and C7 are beauties as well.  :P

Can you please.... PLEASE not say anything positive about the C7?
Wait, that shit is used outside of Canada and Norway?
Standard issue Dutch Military rifle.

WE do have certain mods on it: floating barrel, different stock, different scope and a forward grip with detatchable bipod (C7NLD).

It's shit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 16, 2019, 04:37:25 pm
So is Corbyn going to make a move?

He'll call a no confidence vote, May will win it (already has confirmed DUP backing) and that'll enable her to stay on for a bit longer. Corbyn is a bit thick and this is the kind of dumb move he'd make.
He works for May, he calls these no confidence votes so that May wins them, while she still can. Ez clap.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on January 17, 2019, 02:30:56 am
(https://images.hellogiggles.com/uploads/2019/01/02131905/Trump2.jpg)

I can appreciate a god-tier troll when I see one

Another great meme in this pick is that all paper name plates says acting (except Pence).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 17, 2019, 05:04:00 pm
Look at the stocks and bank profits for 2018. Interesting.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 18, 2019, 07:54:55 am
In other news:

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ah0p6m/england_in_a_nutshell/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ah0p6m/england_in_a_nutshell/)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on January 18, 2019, 02:39:31 pm
Trump bad
White bad
Men bad
Straight bad

Speaking of which, how did we all enjoy the new Gillette™ ad?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on January 18, 2019, 03:54:18 pm
Haven't watched it yet but heard it's quite the meme.

Also we swedes finally got a prime minister 130ish days after the election.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 18, 2019, 05:03:28 pm
Also we swedes finally got a prime minister 130ish days after the election.

[Laughs in Belgian]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on January 18, 2019, 11:37:28 pm
We should disarm all the nukes in the world and just hold a yearly gladiatorial fight where each country contributes either one or a team of 3 fighters (not sure on which would be better). Anyways, the fighters battle it out in a big forest or desert and there are weapons and things scattered throughout. They also jump out of a plane and a minefield zone is established. Additionally, they'll have a collar with a bomb that will go off if they don't move to the center. It will be broadcast live and donations go to charity.

Basically PUBG but with real people and winner gets money and his country gets stuff like favorable trade deals.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on January 19, 2019, 01:56:49 am
I think Olaf should volunteer for Germany.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 19, 2019, 03:04:05 am
Why do you hate me?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on January 19, 2019, 04:12:44 pm
Because BCoF has been delayed for 6 years and still going.  >:(

Also we swedes finally got a prime minister 130ish days after the election.

[Laughs in Belgian]

You can't laugh in a non-existent language Duuring.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on January 20, 2019, 02:51:25 pm
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/former-navy-seal-jocko-willink-toxic-masculinity-the-dichotomy-of-being-a-man?fbclid=IwAR3L_7i-E499ESeZY22S5aJ8ox05nzqjE5zWgZUn8jgEHYqu2adO7UptmQ0
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 20, 2019, 03:10:46 pm
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/former-navy-seal-jocko-willink-toxic-masculinity-the-dichotomy-of-being-a-man?fbclid=IwAR3L_7i-E499ESeZY22S5aJ8ox05nzqjE5zWgZUn8jgEHYqu2adO7UptmQ0
Puts up a good point, and then you read the comments and lose hope.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on January 20, 2019, 04:05:37 pm
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/former-navy-seal-jocko-willink-toxic-masculinity-the-dichotomy-of-being-a-man?fbclid=IwAR3L_7i-E499ESeZY22S5aJ8ox05nzqjE5zWgZUn8jgEHYqu2adO7UptmQ0
Puts up a good point, and then you read the comments and lose hope.

Several good points, also known as an argument.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 20, 2019, 06:40:23 pm
Well this was obviously going to happen.

Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxOYhDJWsAEfglq.jpg:large)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 20, 2019, 08:06:49 pm
Gotta make that recruiting number somehow.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 21, 2019, 11:33:20 pm
Gotta make that recruiting number somehow.
I bet they accept males who fail fitness test as well.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on January 22, 2019, 09:38:12 am
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/49429011_1463883557079531_3727502846619287552_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=bdfbc75cacf632dc34e2fa17c6334644&oe=5CBA7A5F)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 22, 2019, 04:44:04 pm
That whole incident was so twisted and taken out of context. The media and Reddit completely ignored the actual instigators, and now they are removing all videos showing it in full from their front pages.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 22, 2019, 06:21:19 pm
Well this was obviously going to happen.

Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxOYhDJWsAEfglq.jpg:large)
[close]

Even says "those who failed". U.S. Military, amongst many others, are failing to meet recruitment numbers. This is how they make do.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 22, 2019, 09:01:56 pm
Well this was obviously going to happen.

Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxOYhDJWsAEfglq.jpg:large)
[close]

Even says "those who failed". U.S. Military, amongst many others, are failing to meet recruitment numbers. This is how they make do.

This wasn't basic recruitment though, it was selection for an infantry instructor position. The army desperately wanted its first ever woman in the role.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 22, 2019, 10:16:37 pm
Because they desperately need people.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 22, 2019, 11:13:09 pm
Because they desperately need people.

There is no shortage of grunts wanting to become NCOs. This is different to military recruitment.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on January 23, 2019, 06:48:28 am
Recruits are hard to come by because the folks coming of prime military age now have lived their whole lives in a never-ending war in other people's countries and the delusion of 'protecting your country' by means of bombing others half a world away has crumbled.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 24, 2019, 09:00:06 pm
Venezuela is getting spicy. I don't really see a way this is going to go down peacefully, as Maduro has the army's backing, and Guadio is either going to get whacked or arrested if no other major developments occur.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 26, 2019, 12:13:12 am
I am actually ancestor of Spanish kings, I claim Viceroyality of Venezuela as my realm. Please back me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 26, 2019, 01:20:00 pm
Recruits are hard to come by because the folks coming of prime military age now have lived their whole lives in a never-ending war in other people's countries and the delusion of 'protecting your country' by means of bombing others half a world away has crumbled.

No that's really not why recruiment is down.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 26, 2019, 02:11:38 pm
Recruits are hard to come by because the folks coming of prime military age now have lived their whole lives in a never-ending war in other people's countries and the delusion of 'protecting your country' by means of bombing others half a world away has crumbled.

No that's really not why recruiment is down.

Exactly. No idea about the Netherlands, but in Anglosphere countries a big factor is that too many people are unfit due to obesity, diabetes, asthma etc. When a third of American men are obese then your recruitment pool is actually quite small.

Also during peace time recruitment numbers tend to go down anyway. Few people want to train for years on weapon systems they might never get to use in real combat and they want the glory of going to war.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 26, 2019, 07:43:41 pm
You think people join the army because they want to use weapon systems in real combat and for 'the glory of going to war'?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on January 26, 2019, 09:26:42 pm
Recruits are hard to come by because the folks coming of prime military age now have lived their whole lives in a never-ending war in other people's countries and the delusion of 'protecting your country' by means of bombing others half a world away has crumbled.

No that's really not why recruiment is down.
Also during peace time recruitment numbers tend to go down anyway. Few people want to train for years on weapon systems they might never get to use in real combat and they want the glory of going to war.
Most regular force soldiers now days never even see active combat or even fulfill combat roles. A lot of it nowadays is NATO deployments in allied countries, peacekeeping and border security.

For example there is about 15,000 personal in the RCAF but only 100 or so aircraft used in combat. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 26, 2019, 11:15:22 pm
You think people join the army because they want to use weapon systems in real combat and for 'the glory of going to war'?

yeah that's pretty much what soldiers want =\

For example there is about 15,000 personal in the RCAF but only 100 or so aircraft used in combat.
That's not weird at all.... the rate between combat personnel and support personnel in a combat theatre are about 1:8 to 1:12 nowadays and that's considering most of personnel in-theatre is land component. The air forces usually have a much higher rating so that's really not surprising...

No the reason is because of budget cuts, scandal of the past 5-10 years (Not just NLD) and the fact militaries around the West are struggling to explain why they still are relevant given we have enjoyed an unprecedented period of peace. People somehow think there will never be armed conflict again. In a world where everyone is on Social Media, the defense forces are still printing newspapers to explain why they're cool, while they have done next to nothing to make themselves competative in the job market. People just don't want to work there anymore. Given the economic growth, things aren;t helping.

Venezuela is getting spicy. I don't really see a way this is going to go down peacefully, as Maduro has the army's backing, and Guadio is either going to get whacked or arrested if no other major developments occur.
Yeah we're getting worried, too =P (no sarcasm intended)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 26, 2019, 11:28:10 pm
You think people join the army because they want to use weapon systems in real combat and for 'the glory of going to war'?

I really don't know why you think that's somehow controversial. Have you ever seen a military recruitment ad? The glory of war is one of the major themes they almost always draw upon. And yes, they usually show off plenty of hardware too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMqmP5C5WHI

Spoiler
Recruits are hard to come by because the folks coming of prime military age now have lived their whole lives in a never-ending war in other people's countries and the delusion of 'protecting your country' by means of bombing others half a world away has crumbled.

No that's really not why recruiment is down.
Also during peace time recruitment numbers tend to go down anyway. Few people want to train for years on weapon systems they might never get to use in real combat and they want the glory of going to war.
Most regular force soldiers now days never even see active combat or even fulfill combat roles. A lot of it nowadays is NATO deployments in allied countries, peacekeeping and border security.

For example there is about 15,000 personal in the RCAF but only 100 or so aircraft used in combat. 
[close]

I'm probably being a bit UK-centric. Most UK personnel will have seen service in Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/Syria at some point. Also peacekeeping is active combat since firefights often take place and UN peacekeepers do get killed, plus the UN gives out medals for it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 26, 2019, 11:44:07 pm
More has happened on NATO missions the past 15 years though. UN missions are shit.

EDIT: Holy shit that ad is embarassing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 27, 2019, 12:29:45 am
More has happened on NATO missions the past 15 years though. UN missions are shit.

EDIT: Holy shit that ad is embarassing.
I liked it quite a bit, but I think they have to get creative since recruitment numbers and overall military enthusiasm have been lackluster for the past few years.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 27, 2019, 12:46:39 pm
Conscription?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 27, 2019, 05:51:30 pm
YE BREDDER
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 27, 2019, 06:50:23 pm
Less professional soldiers that join for glories of war = less psychopaths
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on January 27, 2019, 07:31:20 pm
But the BBC told me that the death of nationalism was a good thing
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 27, 2019, 10:26:06 pm
Less professional soldiers that join for glories of war = less psychopaths

No those two really aren't correlated.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Yete111 on January 28, 2019, 01:01:20 am
Conscription?

YES
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on January 28, 2019, 01:39:01 am
I don't believe any progressive government in Europe (all of the west) would ever DREAM about implementing conscription.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 28, 2019, 01:16:31 pm
Less professional soldiers that join for glories of war = less psychopaths

No those two really aren't correlated.
We all know how military works. You have a mass of people of which majority is there to get shot and die and small percentage of psychopaths that don't mind or enjoy killing and those do most of the killing.  That is why conscription is stupid, you just get more people that are ready to get killed but not kill.
Non of you 'glories of war'  seeking boys that are on this forum have killed anyone or even attempted to. If you did though you are either a psychopath or you are enjoying your PTSD.
But yes I agree coloration is not strong. Conscription army is expensive and shit, only thing it might be positive for is that you might learn some discipline and improve physique but than again it is wasting time when you coupd be learning or meeting a potential partner.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 28, 2019, 06:23:38 pm
We all know how military works. You have a mass of people of which majority is there to get shot and die and small percentage of psychopaths that don't mind or enjoy killing and those do most of the killing.  That is why conscription is stupid, you just get more people that are ready to get killed but not kill.
Non of you 'glories of war'  seeking boys that are on this forum have killed anyone or even attempted to. If you did though you are either a psychopath or you are enjoying your PTSD.
But yes I agree coloration is not strong. Conscription army is expensive and shit, only thing it might be positive for is that you might learn some discipline and improve physique but than again it is wasting time when you coupd be learning or meeting a potential partner.

You really have no idea how the military works mate.

The majority is not there to get shot and die. Not at all. As I said, the majority is there to support a majority who do the fighting, of which most do not die. Nobody here claims to hunt the glories of war and you really don't have to have been in combat and either be a psychopath or have PTSD. Those are two extremes with a huge amount of in-between.

Third of, conscription army is not expensive at all. Considering most of them will be actually conscripted and only a small percentage professional, the biggest cost of any military (personnel) will be the smallest considering conscripts barely get paid. They also don't have to go on expensive training programs considering they're usually much shorter for conscripts, too.
And 'time could be better spent...' okay that is a matter of opinion but the longest conscription period I have heard of is two years so in the grand scheme of things.... not that long.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on January 28, 2019, 08:05:17 pm
I don't believe any progressive government in Europe (all of the west) would ever DREAM about implementing conscription.

We just reimplemented it like 2-3 years ago, due to lack of people applying for the military.
But it's very limited conscription though.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 28, 2019, 09:07:12 pm
If I wanted guaranteed PTSD that occurs from foreign intervention, I'd sign up for the Peace Corps.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 29, 2019, 01:26:44 am
As I said, the majority is there to support a majority who do the fighting, of which most do not die.
?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on January 29, 2019, 08:18:47 am
I believe he meant a majority are there to support the minority who do the fighting (logistics and such).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 29, 2019, 08:28:55 am
I believe he meant a majority are there to support the minority who do the fighting (logistics and such).

Yes, exactly this.

As I mentioned before, the ratio is about 1:8 nowadays I think.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 29, 2019, 11:46:35 am
I believe he meant a majority are there to support the minority who do the fighting (logistics and such).

Yes, exactly this.

As I mentioned before, the ratio is about 1:8 nowadays I think.
So you are saying that if there was a total war between let's say Germany and France those 8 out of 9 still wouldn't do the fighting?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 29, 2019, 12:49:27 pm
I believe he meant a majority are there to support the minority who do the fighting (logistics and such).

Yes, exactly this.

As I mentioned before, the ratio is about 1:8 nowadays I think.
So you are saying that if there was a total war between let's say Germany and France those 8 out of 9 still wouldn't do the fighting?

Not exactly, there still would be some logistics units that'd come under fire. But yes, in general there's 8 out of 9 people who generally wouldn't be fighting.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 29, 2019, 01:07:48 pm
I believe he meant a majority are there to support the minority who do the fighting (logistics and such).

Yes, exactly this.

As I mentioned before, the ratio is about 1:8 nowadays I think.
So you are saying that if there was a total war between let's say Germany and France those 8 out of 9 still wouldn't do the fighting?

Not exactly, there still would be some logistics units that'd come under fire. But yes, in general there's 8 out of 9 people who generally wouldn't be fighting.
So Netherlands with 25k military would have 2,8k people fighting.     
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 29, 2019, 02:14:15 pm
So Netherlands with 25k military would have 2,8k people fighting.     
Not 25k in military. Our ministry of defence is 52.000 ith 42.000 military. I really don't know where your numbers are coming from mate.
Also I was talking in-theatre. As I said there will be huge differences in the different operational commands.

For example

Out of 18000 people in the land component, we have 7 battalions of active combat unit, so ~4200 fighting units.
In the airforce the numbers are much different. There are about 7000 people in the Dutch Air Force but only a couple of hundred are pilots, meaning combat.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 29, 2019, 02:37:35 pm
So they are not really military, might as well work in any other administration.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 29, 2019, 02:41:31 pm
Lmao, video footage has emerged of a shirtless Bernie Sanders singing Soviet propaganda songs with a group of Russians.
https://twitter.com/TopRopeTravis/status/1089909214213038081?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 29, 2019, 02:41:54 pm
It depends on what you define as combat, though. You can use an incredibly broad definition ('Anyone who is in an active combat zone', or even 'Anyone carrying or managing a weapon') or a very narrow one ('Anyone who can be expected under normal circumstances to come under direct fire'). But even that leaves a large grey area.
If (I'm just talking layman terms here) you're an engineer, your job is not to fight people but to support those who do. But a combat engineer is still quite likely to come indirect or even direct fire, despite fighting not being their primary job. But imagine being in a large-caliber artillery unit. The changes of you coming under direct fire are small, but you are, unlike the engineer, actively trying to kill people. When does your supporting become fighting, and when does your fighting become supporting?

Lmao, video footage has emerged of a shirtless Bernie Sanders singing Soviet propaganda songs with a group of Russians.
https://twitter.com/TopRopeTravis/status/1089909214213038081?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

And the clear relevancy of this video is...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 29, 2019, 02:43:24 pm
Just because your task is not to fight, does not mean that you are not part of the military.J

If there were only frontline troops, where would they get their food, water, ammo, information etc. ? Who would guard the military bases at home?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 29, 2019, 03:09:38 pm
My point is that he was saying that majority of military is there for logistics when it quite clear i was talking about part of the military that is there to do the fighting. And there is quite simple definition of what combat is, everyone that is there with purpose of killing others or destroying enemy equipment/supplies while its possible to hurt personel in the process.

Just because your task is not to fight, does not mean that you are not part of the military.J

If there were only frontline troops, where would they get their food, water, ammo, information etc. ? Who would guard the military bases at home?
Other soldiers would do it that are equally cappable of fighting on a front line? And they would probably have to fight since supply routes would be attacked and military bases as well?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 29, 2019, 03:16:25 pm
Lmao, video footage has emerged of a shirtless Bernie Sanders singing Soviet propaganda songs with a group of Russians.
https://twitter.com/TopRopeTravis/status/1089909214213038081?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Ah clear proof he is a evil Soviet Communist that would prepare the ground for the undead Red Army under the command of undead Stalin to invade USA and eventually whole world.

Russian = Bad
Communist = Bad
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 29, 2019, 04:16:44 pm
It's not relevant, just funny (especially since that trip to the USSR was also his honeymoon). It's somewhat bizarre that so many old, hard-left political figures went on holidays with their lovers to destinations behind the Iron Curtain. For example Jeremy Corbyn went on a motorcycle trip with Diane Abbott across East Germany in the 70s.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on January 29, 2019, 07:15:11 pm
I'm struggling to understand what Big Pete's ideal military would be. Other than apparently full of psychopaths and no logistics support.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 29, 2019, 07:54:56 pm
I'm struggling to understand what Big Pete's ideal military would be. Other than apparently full of psychopaths and no logistics support.
Sounds like the perfect model for a division of Forlorn hope, but even then they have to eat.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on January 29, 2019, 08:20:53 pm
Communist = Bad

I think history dictates as much, yes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on January 29, 2019, 09:45:59 pm
Texas man kills 3 home invaders in self defence.

God bless the 2nd amendment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgXB7M358YI
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on January 29, 2019, 10:31:09 pm
The only acceptable outcome.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 30, 2019, 12:52:09 am
I'm struggling to understand what Big Pete's ideal military would be. Other than apparently full of psychopaths and no logistics support.
Yeah because I said military doesn't needs logistics right?
And yes best military is full of psychopaths that love killing, nothing more effective on the battlefield than that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on January 30, 2019, 02:57:47 am
Sounds like Big Pete is an edgy commie to me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on January 30, 2019, 03:07:36 am
Yeah because I said military doesn't needs logistics right?

Going on about how logistical units aren't really in the military would imply so, yes. At the very least, it suggests a general disdain for those people who ensure your military can actually fight when the time comes.

And yes best military is full of psychopaths that love killing, nothing more effective on the battlefield than that.

Sounds like a great way to end up sitting before an international court after your 'army' starts murdering civilians because they're bored.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 30, 2019, 10:38:47 am
It depends on what you define as combat, though. You can use an incredibly broad definition ('Anyone who is in an active combat zone', or even 'Anyone carrying or managing a weapon') or a very narrow one ('Anyone who can be expected under normal circumstances to come under direct fire'). But even that leaves a large grey area.
If (I'm just talking layman terms here) you're an engineer, your job is not to fight people but to support those who do. But a combat engineer is still quite likely to come indirect or even direct fire, despite fighting not being their primary job. But imagine being in a large-caliber artillery unit. The changes of you coming under direct fire are small, but you are, unlike the engineer, actively trying to kill people. When does your supporting become fighting, and when does your fighting become supporting?

Your social science studies are showing. In the military we prefer clear and defined terminology.

Quote
'Anyone who can be expected under normal circumstances to come under direct fire'
This is the usual military definition of combat. Artillerymen wouldn't argue they have seen combat, but nobody would deny their role inside the part of combat.
Combat engineers are classified as fighting units usually because they do not operate in their organic units, rather they get attatched to infantry units.

@olafson another sidenote: dedicated force protection units are not counted as combat units. This does not mean they cannot see combat. The force protection of the Dutch Air Force saw combat frequently considering they also did nearby patrols.

Other soldiers would do it that are equally cappable of fighting on a front line? And they would probably have to fight since supply routes would be attacked and military bases as well?
The thing you are horribly missing is that military =/= combat troops.
The other point is, supply lines do not often get physically attacked by enemy units in a conventional war. More likely they come under artillery or air attack but that does not count as combat.
The reason people nowadays think supply lines get attacked so often is because COIN operation for the past 25 years. In conventional warfare, territory is more defined thus logistics units safer from direct fire.

@bigpete another thing: you are very sadly mistaken in the fact that the military needs psychopaths to do the hardest fighting. This is hilariously far from the point. An anger-based aggressive unit does not perform better in combat than a more balanced unit. Units filled with more intelligent personnel who do not have a sense of bloodlust perform much better in an overall campaign. Why? Every conflict for the past 20 years has been insanely more complicated and they are only getting more complicated. In order to be an effective unit, military personnel need to be able to make sense of what they are doing and they need officers to explain it to them. So no, psychopathic units are not more effective.

I do not want to call them psychopaths, but take the USMC: a unit made to be shock troopers with aggressive conventional-oriented mindset. They do not perform better in combat than Dutch, Norwegian or English units, who are signficantly less aggressive. On the contrary. The USMC has made countless gross judgement calls in Iraq and Afghanistan simply because of the reason not even their higher-ups had any clue of what they were actually DOING.

tl;dr: in order to do your military job well, you need to understand what you're doing in the grand scheme of things. Being mentally unstable has no place in that. They'll make everything into a hammer-and-nail-problem. War is not like that any more.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 30, 2019, 11:48:11 am
Quote
Your social science studies are showing

Well, yes, obviously. That was the point.

I know what definition the military uses, but that definition itself didn't fall from the sky and has implications on the way we think about the role of soldiers. If 'Anyone who can be expected under normal circumstances to come under direct fire' is the definition of combat, then I can place questionmarks on the precise definition of 'be expected', 'normal circumstances' and 'direct fire'. Even 'anyone' can have different meanings. And then you can go down the micro-level and argue the precise role of micro units or even individuals. I mean, I shouldn't say we should, because what you need (and have) is a workable definition. But it's not clear and defined, except for the people who decide what it is, and tell you what it is.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 30, 2019, 11:58:33 am
Indeed scientifically you're right. As you say, it's workable and we both know what it means practically and enables you to differentiate between jobs in the military of which that are combat and which are Combat Support and Combat Service Support.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 30, 2019, 11:59:40 am
I think we just spend the last page agreeing with eachother but with a lot of words.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on January 30, 2019, 02:29:25 pm
Now kiss
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on January 30, 2019, 02:56:10 pm
You don't understand what a psychopath is.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 30, 2019, 03:39:12 pm
You don't understand what a psychopath is.

I do actually. Even if you don't have the same definition as I have, it doesn't matter. Military personnel need to be of sound judgement and no type of mental disorder will make them any more effective.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on January 30, 2019, 07:02:54 pm
No but drugs do.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on January 31, 2019, 07:31:23 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWam9FSRvGI
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 31, 2019, 07:33:34 pm
Hey how is Brexit going?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on January 31, 2019, 07:38:52 pm
Hey how is Brexit going?

'If you want further proof that Project Fear 2.0 is being coordinated by the EU here it is from a Swedish National Newspaper. Not only is the EU trying to intimidate the British , it is also telling the peoples of Europe ‘this will happen to you too’ if you dare leave the EU.'

Sums it up pretty nicely.

https://www.facebook.com/libertarianuk/photos/a.670923626266223/2710716402286925/?type=3&theater

Brussels elite are trying their best to intimidate the rest of Europe of what would happen if anyone else chose to leave too.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on January 31, 2019, 08:03:22 pm
Yeah. No. I know that a lot of people fall for the 'the deal is bad because the EU wants to scare people into submission' but that ignores the pretty clear fact that in none of the 27 member states there is a government even considering leaving the European Union and the single market. What country would leave? Poland has 90% support for European Union membership. Italy isn't even considering leaving the Euro anymore. The German AfD leadership is trying to kick leaving the EU from their party platform. Hungarian politicians need to be able to afford their mansions.

For some reason, the British can't just come to terms with the fact that a better deal is not possible and if it were, the EU and the EU27 are under absolutely no obligation to give it to them. I know a lot of people say that the EU could do this or that, but fact is they're not going to and if your only responds is 'WELL THAT'S COS YOU'RE EVIL' it pretty much shows how dilusional you are.  Our prime minister literally just tweeted this.

Quote
Spoke with @JunckerEU. #Brexit now in final fase. The EU is united; the Withdrawal Agreement is the best and only deal on the table. Awaiting proposal from UK that is acceptable to EU and will enable ratfication in the UK.

That's coming from what is perhaps the most pragmatic, market-friendly European leader in a country that has arguebly the most to lose from a hard Brexit. We're heading full steam ahead to the poo, and the only strategy the British politician seem to have is to prepare to blame the European Union. Like I said before, it would be pretty funny if it wouldn't hit us so hard as well. Ironic, considering we have been close allies within European Union, NATO and as trading partners. Cheers.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on January 31, 2019, 08:42:27 pm
Personally I just hate GB and want to see it die because Marks lives there and he always asks me to make the 3rd Ark, but I don't want to make the 3rd Ark, so leave me alone Marks, ok? Thanks.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on January 31, 2019, 09:51:06 pm
Nobody cares about what the President of Holland has to say.

'No Deal' is going to happen if the backstop isn't removed, and for the UK it probably won't be that bad. You will have alienated a major economy on your doorstep and the EU will have to go to the negotiating table anyway to hash out a few 'mini-deals' to enable access to London financial markets and other things. I fully expect Ireland to be abandoned like the total irrelevance that it actually is, since everyone knows Brussels doesn't give a shit about peace or whatever they just wanted to weaponize it for the negotiations. Factor in the weakness of the Eurozone economy and it's pretty clear that you guys can't win a game of chicken with us. We will win this small victory at least.

You do make an interesting point re: Eurosceptic parties toning down. I think that's because a) economic reality (you guys are much more economically dependent on the EU than we are), and b) they actually have a very good chance to seize control of the Brussels institutions over the next 10 years. If the populist/nationalist parties pooled their MEPs then they'd currently be the the 3rd biggest in the EU "Parliament". I wonder how many they'll have after May? What a shame it would be if a literal neo-Nazi from Eastern Europe became President of the EU Commission in 2024 (you only need to be proposed by the biggest group in the "parliament" after all). That'd be terrible because I'd probably die laughing.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on January 31, 2019, 11:47:40 pm
There is no such thing as the president of Holland.

Firstly, because we don't have a president.
Secondly, because we're not Holland.

What you're looking for is Prime Minister of the Netherlands.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 31, 2019, 11:51:25 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if the USMC was full of psychopaths
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on February 01, 2019, 12:03:27 am
'No Deal' is going to happen if the backstop isn't removed, and for the UK it probably won't be that bad.

Factor in the weakness of the Eurozone economy and it's pretty clear that you guys can't win a game of chicken with us. We will win this small victory at least.

Hahahahahahaha - oh god, you're serious?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 01, 2019, 01:42:06 am
There is no such thing as the president of Holland.

Well, nobody's ever been there so we'll never know for sure.

Hahahahahahaha - oh god, you're serious?

Yeah I'm deadly serious. Eurozone interest rates are at -0.4%, ECB has wound down QE and growth is minuscule. They have nowhere to go. You think they're going to risk a huge economic shock for the Irish? Lmao, these people didn't give a shit about the Greeks so what makes the Irish so special? Even without the backstop they still have a really good deal.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piercee on February 01, 2019, 02:11:37 am
There is no such thing as the president of Holland.

Firstly, because we don't have a president.
Secondly, because we're not Holland.

What you're looking for is Prime Minister of the Netherlands.

I mean I hate people saying Holland to describe the whole of the Netherlands as much as you.

But you really do sound autistic only taking that as a point from his post.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 01, 2019, 09:32:10 am
I didn't give a shit about the rest.

Someone who basically says a closed border between Northern Ireland and Ireland is 'not a bad deal for the Brits' is fine to stick to his own profession, but clearly has little idea what's going on outside of it.
It's a fucking powder keg down there and it has a significant potential to blow up. The Second Troubles is a good title for a wiki page, don't you think?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 01, 2019, 12:52:58 pm
I'm a corporate lawyer by profession, most of my time these days is devoted to Brexit related matters.

There's not going to be a closed border, mainly because not a single piece of infrastructure has been built to allow that to happen. If it's a 'no deal' then traffic will continue to flow and the EU will almost certainly end up introducing checks in the Celtic Sea (Irish and British goods alike will be subject to customs controls in continental Europe). Ireland will not like that, so we'll end up with a negotiated settlement somewhere down the line. If that happens then it's Ireland's fault, since Varadkar scrapped the UK/Irish technical team working on the border when he became PM and insisted on allowing Brussels to weaponise the issue. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 01, 2019, 02:23:35 pm
Quote
You will have alienated a major economy on your doorstep

Yeah, and it will definitly hurt us. But I fail to see how, logically, the UK will be hurt comparatively less. You're not just gonna WTO trade with us, but also with the rest of the world. How will it be bad for us, but not for you?

Quote
If the populist/nationalist parties pooled their MEPs then they'd currently be the the 3rd biggest in the EU "Parliament".

Yeah. But they don't.

Quote
What a shame it would be if a literal neo-Nazi from Eastern Europe became President of the EU Commission in 2024

Now you're just writing a fan-fiction.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 01, 2019, 03:26:49 pm
Quote
You will have alienated a major economy on your doorstep

Yeah, and it will definitly hurt us. But I fail to see how, logically, the UK will be hurt comparatively less. You're not just gonna WTO trade with us, but also with the rest of the world. How will it be bad for us, but not for you?

Existing deals with countries outside the EU are already being what's called 'grandfathered', i.e arrangements rolled over as far as possible. It'll also be very easy for the UK to trade access to its markets for agricultural products in return for services (etc), which is something the EU struggles to do due to French objections.

It will hurt the UK, but the damage will mostly be sector specific. In the medium to long term EU exports to the UK (your largest market) will become increasingly uncompetitive assuming the UK goes down the path of trade liberalisation. The flip-side of that is prices in the UK, both for consumer goods and inputs for industry, will on average decrease. You'll also see onshoring as UK firms pull back operations from EU27 to Britain. UK tech industry, the biggest in Europe, will also benefit from escaping particularly burdensome EU regulation (for some reason Brussels has a death wish when it comes to digital technology).

You also have to recognise that the UK economy is c.80% services. It's easy to continue servicing EU customers in the event of a 'no deal' because all you need is to open a 'brass plate company' and employ a handful of people there, or some kind of 'eResidency' scheme. By contrast these options aren't available to German heavy industry.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on February 01, 2019, 03:51:38 pm
GB be like:
Leaving one of the biggest domestic Market because of National pride - Maybe worth it (tbh none of us pseudo economists here knows whats gonna happen)
Embarassing your Country in Front of the World and your own People because you act like a Child that does not know
What it wants  - priceless

"Ooooooooorder!"
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ry@n on February 01, 2019, 03:58:19 pm
was half way through typing something rather intelligent and then decided against it after reading some of the more... interesting opinions on this thread; All i can say is hard brexit and and get them out my country. quicker we get the papers signed the better. Bring in our saviour!!!!!!

(https://gyazo.com/8447b519057f04202221ddcdd7bda663.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Von Bergen on February 01, 2019, 04:10:09 pm
 ???
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 01, 2019, 04:13:21 pm
Do British people have a specific preference in which outside group to blame for their problems, or is it entirely context-dependent?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on February 01, 2019, 06:20:58 pm
ITT:
Corporate lawyer baits unemployed social science students into having an absolute meltdown attempting to defend the hilarious and total failure that is the European integration project.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on February 01, 2019, 06:37:48 pm
ITT:
Corporate lawyer baits unemployed social science students into having an absolute meltdown attempting to defend the hilarious and total failure that is the European integration project.

I don't think keeping Europeans from endlessly killing each other through famine and war and the freedom of movement would necessarily classify it as a total failure broseph.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 01, 2019, 06:40:09 pm
I'm also not unemployed, but I appreciate the concern for my financial and mental well-being.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on February 01, 2019, 07:00:26 pm
social 'science' hmmm
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on February 01, 2019, 07:06:53 pm
social 'science' hmmm

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/oTYNowm.png)
[close]

Anyway, good work Steven, you've done your country proud. Now report back to base and prepare for your next assignment: the TaleWorlds forum.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on February 01, 2019, 07:09:09 pm
I entirely forgot that I'm a fat American who eats Burger King and sips on Icee all day while waiting for the next Avengers movie, my b dog I'll go back to NW and leave y'all to it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on February 01, 2019, 07:57:38 pm
I got raped by a refugee yesterday.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on February 01, 2019, 08:31:36 pm
Existing deals with countries outside the EU are already being what's called 'grandfathered', i.e arrangements rolled over as far as possible. It'll also be very easy for the UK to trade access to its markets for agricultural products in return for services (etc), which is something the EU struggles to do due to French objections.

It will hurt the UK, but the damage will mostly be sector specific. In the medium to long term EU exports to the UK (your largest market) will become increasingly uncompetitive assuming the UK goes down the path of trade liberalisation. The flip-side of that is prices in the UK, both for consumer goods and inputs for industry, will on average decrease. You'll also see onshoring as UK firms pull back operations from EU27 to Britain. UK tech industry, the biggest in Europe, will also benefit from escaping particularly burdensome EU regulation (for some reason Brussels has a death wish when it comes to digital technology).

Actually a lot of the grandfathered deals will still be messed up and need renegotiating, as for example things which are made "in the EU" no longer includes the UK, so various products will no longer be under FTA as I understand it. There's also lots of altering of very minor text, but when you consider that the EU-ROK deal is over 1400 pages on it's own, it adds up. Not to mention ROK now see the UK as an equal in size, compared to negotiating with the EU, US etc and want more concessions.
I'm sure it'll all get sorted out, but many trade deals are not actually ready for B-Day yet.

Idk where you're getting this whole thing about onshoring from, as the trend so far seems very firmly the other way around. I'm curious as to what length of time you believe medium to long term to mean, roughly speaking.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 01, 2019, 08:36:03 pm
To be clear, I just enjoy coming on here to debate political stuff while we all wait for BCoF. Nothing personal to me, I'm just very bored at work. Even though I put out some 'Holland' bait from time to time this thread wouldn't be as interesting without the Dutch contributions.

ITT:
Corporate lawyer baits unemployed social science students into having an absolute meltdown attempting to defend the hilarious and total failure that is the European integration project.

I don't think keeping Europeans from endlessly killing each other through famine and war and the freedom of movement would necessarily classify it as a total failure broseph.

*NATO. EU fucked up in Yugoslavia and Ukraine.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 01, 2019, 10:02:40 pm
Actually a lot of the grandfathered deals will still be messed up and need renegotiating, as for example things which are made "in the EU" no longer includes the UK, so various products will no longer be under FTA as I understand it. There's also lots of altering of very minor text, but when you consider that the EU-ROK deal is over 1400 pages on it's own, it adds up. Not to mention ROK now see the UK as an equal in size, compared to negotiating with the EU, US etc and want more concessions.
I'm sure it'll all get sorted out, but many trade deals are not actually ready for B-Day yet.

It's very difficult but far from impossible. Remainer media likes to talk shit about the Dept for International Trade (mainly because Liam Fox is leading it) but it's done some really impressive work. For example the most complicated trade deal ever signed in history was between the EU and Switzerland, and they announced around Christmas that they'd managed to roll it over in time for Brexit.

Sure, the UK loses negotiating power when it comes to market size but at the same time it gains flexibility as it's no longer bound by the interests of the other EU27. You can go much further on services in return for opening up to agriculture or textiles for example, which also reduces costs on shop shelves in the UK. It's a win-win, whereas currently we're bound by Spanish, Italian and especially French agricultural interests.

Idk where you're getting this whole thing about onshoring from, as the trend so far seems very firmly the other way around. I'm curious as to what length of time you believe medium to long term to mean, roughly speaking.

I mostly deal with the food and drink sector. As a result of Brexit we've seen UK firms rapidly increase market share within the British market at the expense of EU27. Two examples so you can see what I mean:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41233255
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/brexit/fermanaghbased-egg-firm-planning-for-hard-brexit-37361470.html

And here's Robert Peston confirming what's happening from Davos of all places: https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1087763485184966657

It's partly due to the £ becoming more competitive, but mainly because of trade substitution. We already have industry bodies from Spain to Ireland sounding the alarm about what's happening.

Quote
Paul Kelly, Ibec’s director for the food and drink industry, warned that the imposition of tariff barriers could force some Irish businesses to transfer their activities to the UK market, resulting in job losses here. He also pointed out that 80 per cent of agri-food jobs were in the regions, meaning that “already economically disadvantaged areas will become more disadvantaged”.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/unions-say-eu-must-protect-rural-areas-and-food-sector-from-brexit-1.3048901


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on February 02, 2019, 04:07:35 pm
The only thing that shows is that it's more difficult for EU based companies to trade in post-Brexit Britain, which was already obvious. Companies are leaving the UK as it's less attractive. That's not really onshoring so much as filling a gap in the market created by companies leaving.
All that means is less competition and a more isolationist market, which most people agree is not a good thing for consumers. Brits will lose their jobs with EU companies and move to work at British companies, which just equals loss of earnings and uncertainty for them, also not great. And that's assuming best case smooth transition and picking up the slack in production left behind.

Personally I don't give a shit where a given company I buy from is based, I want the best quality goods provided at the lowest cost.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on February 02, 2019, 04:53:58 pm
The only thing that shows is that it's more difficult for EU based companies to trade in post-Brexit Britain, which was already obvious. Companies are leaving the UK as it's less attractive. That's not really onshoring so much as filling a gap in the market created by companies leaving.
All that means is less competition and a more isolationist market, which most people agree is not a good thing for consumers. Brits will lose their jobs with EU companies and move to work at British companies, which just equals loss of earnings and uncertainty for them, also not great. And that's assuming best case smooth transition and picking up the slack in production left behind.

Personally I don't give a shit where a given company I buy from is based, I want the best quality goods provided at the lowest cost.

And that's why China will be number one in about a decade.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 02, 2019, 05:02:41 pm
Companies aren't leaving, they're just having their exports squeezed by stronger local competition. You can't afford to pull out of the 2nd largest economy in Europe. What's happening is a significant amount of onshoring of supply chains in the food and drink sector. Ironically for all this talk of the border, it's NI than's benefiting most from Brexit thus far since it has the largest agricultural sector in the UK.

Does that mean less competition? Yes and no. Global agriculture is extremely protectionist anyway because voters have a romantic view about the rural economy and farmers are extremely good lobbyists. EU farming subsidies are more generous than anywhere else in the world (which every EU citizen pays for at the supermarket checkout) and French farmers riot all the time whenever that's threatened. There's also a natural ceiling in prices anyway due to how competitive the UK grocery market is.

It's like this: the UK imports most of its food. Makes sense to to buy it off poor Africans for bargain prices in return for services access rather than expensive stuff from the greedy French.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on February 02, 2019, 07:15:08 pm
To be clear, I just enjoy coming on here to debate political stuff while we all wait for BCoF.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on February 02, 2019, 10:09:54 pm
BCoF is a Hoax
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on February 02, 2019, 10:41:55 pm
BCoF is a Hoax
Mildly put.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 03, 2019, 08:16:01 pm
@corporate lawyer: an actual question out of interest. You know more about this than I do obviously. My international relations lecturer said that because of the integration of European Law into Great-Britain's day-to-day business, it will be a near-impossible feat to turn all of that European Law into National Law upon a hard Brexit. He didn't say it couldn't be done, but he mostly expressed his annoyance over Pro-Brexit politicians 'Failing to do their homework and thereby not knowing what they are getting into.'

Care to comment? Literally I have zero point of reference to judge this by. Maybe you can shed some light upon this.

Also, Steve, I do enjoy these diuscussions too. We rarely agree on anything but it helps me getting some across-the-aisle opinions. This thread has moved away from shit-talking lately so it's refreshing really.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 03, 2019, 10:53:38 pm
Hmmm I'm not a constitutional lawyer and it's a very specialist area, but I can give a few general points. From what I understand it is a very difficult process because EU law is highly centralised and much of it has direct effect. So it's not simply a case of copy/paste the entire body of the EU acquis onto UK books but rather having to re-write most of it to give effect to UK institutions rather than EU ones. It's not *that* complicated but it is very time-consuming. To give a rough idea of how much there is to get through:
Spoiler
https://youtu.be/cTH0UrpSu2s?t=3316
[close]

It's a big task but one that should be delivered on schedule. We're not staying in the EEA (whereby we'd automatically retain c.20% of the EU acquis) so I'm assuming the difficulty of the job isn't really affected by a 'no deal' Brexit. We're still repatriating 100% of EU law whether it's 'no deal' or May's deal.

We're also not converting all of it (big chunks like the Charter of Fundamental Rights are being left out). In the long term ECJ case law will still apply post-Brexit when it comes to interpreting the relevant legislation and it'll be a case of future parliaments gradually working through what to keep and what to get rid of.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 03, 2019, 11:28:52 pm
Wouldn't that create a significant period of uncertainty with a lot of hiatuses?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 04, 2019, 12:31:28 am
How so?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 04, 2019, 01:29:15 pm
Well EU law would no longer be in effect but there wouldnt yet be an update from the British side.

OR am I completely misunderstanding this process?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 04, 2019, 05:03:10 pm
Not sure I understand. If EU laws have been fully repatriated by Brexit day then there shouldn't be any hiatus.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on February 04, 2019, 06:13:20 pm
21 was a spy the whole time... This is an act of war
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Steinmann on February 05, 2019, 02:14:46 am
Jude
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 08, 2019, 01:53:49 am
Well this is the funniest, weirdest story of 2019 thus far.
https://medium.com/@jeffreypbezos/no-thank-you-mr-pecker-146e3922310f

TL;DR: Jeff Bezos had his dick pics leaked to a US tabloid and they allegedly tried to blackmail him with them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on February 08, 2019, 11:24:46 am
Well this is the funniest, weirdest story of 2019 thus far.
https://medium.com/@jeffreypbezos/no-thank-you-mr-pecker-146e3922310f

TL;DR: Jeff Bezos had his dick pics leaked to a US tabloid and they allegedly tried to blackmail him with them.
whos that

Also I think UK had lower gdp growth than Netherlands.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on February 08, 2019, 10:33:04 pm
The memes write themselves sometimes
https://www.foxnews.com/world/comedian-who-portrays-ukraines-president-on-tv-series-leads-real-race
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on February 08, 2019, 10:40:14 pm
Ukraine had Darth Vader running for president previous election, so this is pretty boring.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 08, 2019, 10:56:35 pm
I honestly hope he'll get elected. Better than Tymoshenko or Poroshenko.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on February 14, 2019, 05:56:41 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47237051
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 15, 2019, 08:13:07 am
I thought we were supposed to be better than them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 15, 2019, 06:40:13 pm
Quote
Unamed 'senior EU diplomat': "In a no-deal scenario, Ireland would have to choose between setting up a physical Border with Northern Ireland and de facto leaving the single market. If there is no physical Border, the customs checks would have to take place on all goods coming from Ireland."
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/editorial-eu-cannot-allow-us-to-burn-as-may-fiddles-over-brexit-37818812.html


Oh, so it's not about peace then?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 15, 2019, 08:03:52 pm
That is the point of pressure with which Europe will whip the Brits back in submission.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on February 15, 2019, 08:10:08 pm
It's what happens when you trust G*rmanics in the first place.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 15, 2019, 09:34:35 pm
That is the point of pressure with which Europe Germany will whip the Brits back in submission.

It's more likely than not that Berlin will back down over the NI/Eire border.

It's what happens when you trust G*rmanics in the first place.

Of course. Angela Merkel is extremely untrustworthy for a start.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on February 16, 2019, 11:47:28 am
So Trump's gone full dictator. Not hugely surprising considering his idols but anyway.
Sets an interesting precedent for future Democratic presidents. One could very easily argue national emergencies on school shootings (even if they wait until the next one that won't be far off) or those lacking health insurance.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 16, 2019, 12:35:28 pm
So Trump's gone full dictator. Not hugely surprising considering his idols but anyway.
Sets an interesting precedent for future Democratic presidents. One could very easily argue national emergencies on school shootings (even if they wait until the next one that won't be far off) or those lacking health insurance.

Presidential power has expanded rapidly in the last 25 years, every incumbent has abused the office in one way or another.  For example Obama did so via the prolific use of executive orders. I don't blame Trump-he has a clear mandate to build the wall.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on February 16, 2019, 05:00:58 pm
So Trump's gone full dictator. Not hugely surprising considering his idols but anyway.
Sets an interesting precedent for future Democratic presidents. One could very easily argue national emergencies on school shootings (even if they wait until the next one that won't be far off) or those lacking health insurance.

Presidential power has expanded rapidly in the last 25 years, every incumbent has abused the office in one way or another.  For example Obama did so via the prolific use of executive orders. I don't blame Trump-he has a clear mandate to build the wall.
Oh boy...

Obama used 276, 15 fewer than Bush and 88 fewer than Clinton (to look at historical context). Trump has also used more per day in office than Obama so far.
If we're talking about "prolific use" then we'd have to take a look at the 15 Presidents who used more than Obama, including Harding (522), Hoover (968) or Coolidge (1203). The grand daddy of them all was Roosevelt at 3728 but I figured I'd let him off the hook for having a World War to deal with.

Any other bollocks you want to get fact checked?

Edit: Grant was the first President to use far more than his predecessors at 217, all the way back in 1877, in case you were wondering
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on February 16, 2019, 06:07:52 pm
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/14/schools-france-replace-mother-father-parent-1-2-controversial/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 16, 2019, 06:36:50 pm
Fair cop, got it wrong on executive orders. I thought they were the sum total of executive action rather than simply one category (there's also presidential memorandums, agency guidance, executive agreements, etc). Obama used those executive powers far more extensively than any other modern US President, which is understandable because he had a big legislative program and a Republican Senate/HoR that opposed him, but was also probably against the spirit of the Constitution.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on February 16, 2019, 09:57:24 pm
Why can't the U.S just switch to the Westminster System which gives all the power to the executive?

Politicians abusing constitutional obscurities ain't dictatorship, its part of the system so things can actually get done. Given the system through which bills are introduced and passed in the U.S its a wonder they've ever passed anything since its creation.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on February 16, 2019, 10:21:48 pm
The Federal legislature was never meant to do most of the legwork. Gridlock is a built-in feature, to ensure that the the interests of one bloc of the country can't always domineer over those of another. The problems we experience now in regards to it are a result of the consolidation of power in the federal body, where it was never meant to. It also doesn't help that the United States has parts of the country that are inherently and radically divergent from one another; there's no singular national identity.

Sets an interesting precedent for future Democratic presidents.
I feel like using it to be able to appropriate funds for a project on the border is in a different league than presumably pushing de-facto legislation upon the whole of the interior. Nevertheless, given the insanity that ilk have adopted it wouldn't surprise me. They're welcome to; it would be the final nail in the coffin of this accursed union.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 17, 2019, 12:19:46 pm
Quote
it would be the final nail in the coffin of this accursed union.

If ever.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on February 17, 2019, 07:07:18 pm
it would be the final nail in the coffin of this accursed union.

Inshallah brother, it shall be so.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 18, 2019, 08:30:46 am
Let's hope the Supreme Court stops it, lest we see the American Dream itself shatter, launching us into an interesting era with more than enough job oppertunities for a person as myself.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 18, 2019, 10:23:34 am
The question is, do you really want to spend your whole career patrolling the demilitarized zone between the Federal Army and the Free American Forces somewhere in rural Pennsylvania?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 18, 2019, 12:42:41 pm
No I want to get PTSD after doing 8 combat tours in Alabama that all were supposed to be nation rebuilding missions and seeing all my hard work and the loss of my comrades going down the shithole because Europe wasn't willing to commit to an extensive counterinsurgency campaign.

All the while my dreams are being haunted by rednecks jumpig from every possible place with sawed-off shotguns yelling 'howdy boys, should've built that wall'.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 18, 2019, 12:45:04 pm
An American insurgency would probably look a lot like the French Resistance of the 2nd world war, in the sense that they'll be mostly fighting eachother over ideological differences.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 18, 2019, 12:45:31 pm
That's pretty much Iraq and Afghanistan in a nutshell mate
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 18, 2019, 01:27:32 pm
Those are mostly secterian (Iraq especially) and ethnical or tribal (Afghanistan). Religion could play a role in an American civil war/insurgency, but it's far more likely to be fought over ideological lines.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 18, 2019, 04:58:47 pm
Does it practically make a difference?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 18, 2019, 05:52:21 pm
Extremely so for anyone involved in the conflict or trying to solve it. They don't teach you this?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 18, 2019, 05:55:55 pm
yes of course it means that motivations change and the political/strategic challenges would change, but for the lonesome force protection PAX or platoon commander the challenges on the ground won't change dramatically. People will still want their basic needs fulfilled and not by dying of violence. The political game will change colour but in the grand scheme of things, shit won't be THAT different. The complexities may differ but people will still try to kill eachother, you and some other people.

EDIT: yes they do teach us that, but from an international security perspectiv: everyone wants security, food, shelter.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on February 18, 2019, 06:07:05 pm
Let's hope the Supreme Court stops it, lest we see the American Dream itself shatter, launching us into an interesting era with more than enough job oppertunities for a person as myself.
Shatter? It was never real to begin with.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on February 18, 2019, 06:24:29 pm
There's a running joke that my state (Texas) should secede from the U.S. and frankly it's the most capable state to do so, but I always point out to people that it would be a Brexit situation of having to renegotiate all our trade, but that seems better than being a Tax-donor state (we send more money to the Federal government then we get back). It's really just a meh situation as the U.S. continues to slowly fall from its hegemony, but as 2016 pointed out, all a rival country has to do is promote some sectarian facebook pages and Americans start fighting each other and burning down towns (lul).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 18, 2019, 06:35:54 pm
Why would it? What would it gain? The logic 'we pay more than we get' is barely valid as you could literally continueing seceding richer parts away from poorer parts right down to the micro-level. Looking at you, Catalonia.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 18, 2019, 08:10:48 pm
Why would it? What would it gain? The logic 'we pay more than we get' is barely valid as you could literally continueing seceding richer parts away from poorer parts right down to the micro-level. Looking at you, Catalonia.

I think it's more about arguments of nationhood. Texas was an independent republic that won its own war against Mexico before it joined the USA.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on February 18, 2019, 08:20:23 pm
Why would it? What would it gain? The logic 'we pay more than we get' is barely valid as you could literally continueing seceding richer parts away from poorer parts right down to the micro-level. Looking at you, Catalonia.

I think it's more about arguments of nationhood. Texas was an independent republic that won its own war against Mexico before it joined the USA.
Fun fact: Texas was a lot bigger than our current size, but we also made Santa Anna sign the treaty of independence with guns all around him, so that's probably why.
Spoiler
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/87/18/9c/87189c82c40a99893ba0d3c424f9c86c.jpg)
[close]

Why would it? What would it gain? The logic 'we pay more than we get' is barely valid as you could literally continueing seceding richer parts away from poorer parts right down to the micro-level. Looking at you, Catalonia.
It's time for the Jedi United States to end and for the Eastern Roman Empire Texas to rise.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on February 18, 2019, 08:41:47 pm
Why would it? What would it gain?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on February 18, 2019, 09:30:17 pm
If you come over as a 'peacekeeper' you'll be lucky to leave in a body bag.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 18, 2019, 09:39:04 pm
You really misunderstand what peacekeepers are for and how they get somewhere in the first place.

What you are thinking of is 'democracy-bringer'.

If you come over as a 'peacekeeper' you'll be lucky to leave in a body bag.
r/iamverybadass
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on February 18, 2019, 09:52:53 pm
I am not making any claims about my own actions, merely pointing out that 'those hillbillies in the woods' aren't going to be as easy to 'persuade' as people will undoubtedly lead on.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on February 18, 2019, 10:15:13 pm
I am not making any claims about my own actions, merely pointing out that 'those hillbillies in the woods' aren't going to be as easy to 'persuade' as people will undoubtedly lead on.
Contrary to popular belief, they are proficient shooters and well versed in guerrilla warfare.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on February 19, 2019, 01:01:07 am
Hickok45 could defeat an entire army just by himself.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on February 19, 2019, 01:59:05 am
Especially if it's an army of 2 liters.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on February 19, 2019, 02:42:34 am
Why would it? What would it gain?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty

Duuring's kryptonite
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 19, 2019, 02:06:53 pm
Can't have something you gave up.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on February 20, 2019, 05:31:41 am
What a ludicrous statement. Without even touching the way sovereignty had been setup to work, and did so until the mid 19th-century in the U.S., the idea you can't take back sovereignty once it has been lost is possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard on this forum. The past century has seen hundreds of new polities retake or forge anew their sovereignty; both by peaceful and violent means.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 20, 2019, 03:16:09 pm
It was meant sarcastic and a slight reference to the last time Texas tried leaving the Union.

To classify Texas as a nation that is different from the US is somewhat laughable considering pretty much its entire Republican government, including all its presidents and fifty-seven of the sixty signers of its declaration of independence were Americans. The majority of who were, in the eyes of the Mexican law, illegal immigrants. Russia could learn from this example.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: TheBoberton on February 20, 2019, 06:35:03 pm
To classify Texas as a nation that is different from the US is somewhat laughable considering pretty much its entire Republican government, including all its presidents and fifty-seven of the sixty signers of its declaration of independence were Americans.

The United States is easily made up of several nations, both culturally and ethnically. The only thing we share collectively is a language, and barely at that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on February 20, 2019, 06:38:47 pm
@Duuring
Texas can't really be 'different than the US' because the US has no standard identity or sense of nationhood. It is however different from other regions of the US, but not the US itself - again because the only common identity the U.S. as a whole can try to claim is baseless corporate consumerism. Rather people admit it or not, the United States is not a nation, it is a country with many nations within it.

You can try to convince me that Texas isn't different from different parts of the U.S., say California for example. But you may as well plan on also telling me how the South doesn't possess its own identity from the Midwest or New England.

The United States is easily made up of several nations, both culturally and ethnically. The only thing we share collectively is a language, and barely at that.
And political citizenship. At least most of us...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 21, 2019, 11:09:35 am
So, just for the sake of the argument, then what was the Texas nation when it was founded in 1836? Because its founders had no common chararistics except being white, English-speaking and American. And slaveholders for the most part, I guess.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on February 21, 2019, 01:04:59 pm
While we're at it we could make the same argument about many countries, especially ones with very polarised politics and high income inequality, including the UK.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on February 21, 2019, 01:59:39 pm
I was going to make the same argument about the Netherlands and our regional cultures but I don't think people who spend little to no time in the Netherlands would take that argument serious.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 21, 2019, 02:16:50 pm
Well the Dutch was most likely to have a Balkan like crisis.

That said, even Dutch people don't really take it seriously.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 21, 2019, 03:35:19 pm
While we're at it we could make the same argument about many countries, especially ones with very polarised politics and high income inequality, including the UK.

Polarised politics? Not really. The British Social Attitudes survey consistently shows that political opinions on things like homosexuality, immigration, environment (etc) is fairly uniform throughout the UK. That's not the case in the USA. As to the EU issue I wouldn't take a small but very vocal group of hardcore Europhiles as representative of all those who voted to remain.

Also high income inequality? UK is only slightly above the European average according to the latest Eurostat data.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on February 21, 2019, 07:58:00 pm
I mean I was more refering to the economic divide between the North and South rather than the Gini coefficient across the entire population, as we were talking about regional differences.
Regional differences were present in the Brexit referendum, also of note being Scotland and London, vastly different to the majority of England, particularly the North. I don't get what you're on about with the small vocal europhiles. You're just as much of an idiot for dismissing 48% (at the time) of the British population who voted as others were for trying to dismiss 52%.

Also in other Brexit news, those "easy to grandfather trade deals" aren't doing too great. 7/69 so far, with several of the ones done so far being with practically irrelevant nations.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 21, 2019, 08:36:17 pm
Okay, well you did say income inequality. Even in terms of regional inequality the UK is still very average. Almost all countries have geographic economic divides (West Germany vs East Germany, Sun Belt vs Rust Belt, Wallonia vs Flanders etc).

Most of the 48% accept the result and just want to get on with Brexit. Parties that supported the Brexit result got c.90% of the vote at the last general election. If there was some kind of 'culture war' backlash then why didn't the Lib Dems/Greens/SNP do better than they did?

The difficulty with grandfathering is uncertainty over future UK-EU trading arrangements, since much of it hinges on that. Sure some already completed have been done with irrelevant countries, but others (USA, Aus, NZ, Swiss) are our biggest partners after the EU27.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on February 21, 2019, 11:41:47 pm
So, just for the sake of the argument, then what was the Texas nation when it was founded in 1836? Because its founders had no common chararistics except being white, English-speaking and American. And slaveholders for the most part, I guess.

Most whites that moved to Texas in the 1830s would have had a Southern identity, since most would have been immigrants from that region. At Texas' founding, I would probably agree with you that there was no unique Texan identity or sense of nationhood in the literal meaning, though its white founders shared identity, both by culture and ethnicity, to the Deep and Upland South. Notwithstanding, Texans today are their own people; having forged their own ethnic and cultural being through the amalgamation - through proximity - of Southern and Mexican influences. A Texans' being are more than just a regional peculiarity, as would be the case between the Upland and Deep South to one another.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on February 23, 2019, 04:26:40 pm
Stop article 13!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ0D1i1QB0c
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Riddlez on February 23, 2019, 04:29:52 pm
Thank the media industry's lobby for this. This will become a fucking joke. I really hope this will turn into some internet insurgency
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on February 23, 2019, 05:19:16 pm
Thank the media industry's lobby for this. This will become a fucking joke. I really hope this will turn into some internet insurgency

It's utterly outrageous. The EU Commission won't get re-elected if it carries on like this.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on February 26, 2019, 08:13:46 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsuWEVmvGb0

Who could have seen this coming ::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on February 27, 2019, 06:38:31 pm
I, for one, hope that India bloodies Pakistan once again
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on March 03, 2019, 01:03:11 am
I, for one, hope that India bloodies Pakistan once again

Was getting caught part of their plan?

In other news: https://www.foxnews.com/us/navy-seal-who-outed-nathan-phillips-military-record-in-wake-of-covington-incident-claims-youtube-banned-him-in-retaliation
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on March 03, 2019, 03:33:57 am
The Onion is a gem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYaZ57Bn4pQ
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 03, 2019, 01:43:16 pm
Excellent news. Hopefully the Dutch will take one for the team.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/isis-bride-shamima-begums-jihadi-husband-yago-riedijk-says-he-wants-them-to-return-to-netherlands-to-a4081236.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: UniversitasMetal on March 04, 2019, 12:26:48 am
I thought the husband was dead lol wtf.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on March 04, 2019, 06:36:56 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/4d2fd846d747e3616c05ea89b534eee6.png)

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/28/young-muslims-britain-radical-progressive

I love UK journalism
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 04, 2019, 08:31:39 pm
Lol, that piece.

Quote
Muslims of my generation, growing up in the 70s and 80s, were inspired by radical ideas derived from secular humanism.

My brain hurts after reading that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 12, 2019, 10:59:23 am
So the same Brexit deal has just been put forward with the EU and the UK again claiming different things and all of this is being presented as some sort of change. Terrific. Can the UK please vote to accept the same deal they voted down months ago and fuck off now?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on March 12, 2019, 11:45:44 am
But now we got our bordaaaaaass with Ireland guaranteed.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 14, 2019, 01:29:10 pm
Brexit means what the fuck we don't know fuck everything
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 14, 2019, 03:49:48 pm
Even if there's a delay we're still leaving. Good luck without us.

(https://www.trading-treff.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/plattform_o%CC%88konomie.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 14, 2019, 06:30:34 pm
Even if there are good reasons to leave the EU, it took you guys two years to achieve absolutely nothing. This is only the departure deal, let alone the agreement on the future relationship. There is no majority support for any of the alternatives to membership.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ted on March 14, 2019, 07:07:36 pm
Even if there's a delay we're still leaving. Good luck without us.

(https://www.trading-treff.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/plattform_o%CC%88konomie.png)

What exactly are you trying to demonstrate with that diagram?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 14, 2019, 08:13:33 pm
That the EU tech industry is minuscule compared to international rivals, has been totally fucked over by successive bouts of EU policy (the latest being GDPR), and will be even smaller once Britain leaves (that graph also includes Russia's Yandex). The EU is poorly prepared for the Fourth Industrial Revolution and hasn't even learned any of the lessons as to why it's so far behind.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 14, 2019, 08:22:23 pm
once Britain leaves

If.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on March 16, 2019, 01:22:15 am
I genuinely don't understand your point with the graph. Do you think that those companies only operate in the country/continent they originate from? Besides that, the graph just shows growth in Asia at the cost of the US market.
Not that any of that will change post-Brexit anyway, they'll still need to comply with EU regulations and there are still cheaper places to operate from than the UK.

But obviously muh oppressive EU overlords stop me accessing Google, I'll be so grateful to leave the EU and have more personal data stripped.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 17, 2019, 02:36:42 pm
I genuinely don't understand your point with the graph. Do you think that those companies only operate in the country/continent they originate from? Besides that, the graph just shows growth in Asia at the cost of the US market.

No they don't, but I think Europeans might want to be owners rather than simply customers of big tech. And no it doesn't show growth in Asia and the expense of the US.

Not that any of that will change post-Brexit anyway, they'll still need to comply with EU regulations and there are still cheaper places to operate from than the UK.

In tech it's not really about operational costs. Silicon Valley is an extremely expensive place to set up/run a business from. It's rather mainly to do with whether you can attract the talent, obtain seed money and have the right regulatory environment in place.   


But obviously muh oppressive EU overlords stop me accessing Google, I'll be so grateful to leave the EU and have more personal data stripped.

The EU Copyright Directive hasn't been passed yet so Google is fine for now. When it comes to personal data that's the price you pay for having a product that's a) free (or much cheaper than it otherwise would be) and b) personalised and responsive to you. All GDPR is doing is stifling EU start-ups whilst Asia and North America extend their lead over the 'little Europeans'.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 17, 2019, 08:26:21 pm
You honestly think the UK is going to out-race the US and Asia to the bottom of the barrel?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 17, 2019, 09:55:42 pm
You honestly think the UK is going to out-race the US and Asia to the bottom of the barrel?

'bottom of the barrel' is very revealing as to the EU mindset, as if you guys can get away with opting out of the race by being some kind of economic island. You tried that approach for years and it didn't get you anywhere, so you entered 'jealousy mode' and started taking punitive measures against US big tech.

Yes, we'll certainly become much more competitive against the US and Asia. Despite EU membership the UK still attracts more tech investment than any other European country (in fact we've extended our lead since the Brexit vote).

In the field of healthcare for example, particularly with things like genomic prediction, the UK is well placed to beat the US and China because we have decades worth of publicly-owned NHS data which is an asset no other country really has. The trick is in how to leverage that for commercial use.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 18, 2019, 08:25:58 pm
How about you guys manage to actually leave first before starting talking about 'you guys'.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Big Pete on March 19, 2019, 07:51:44 am
Netflix Fourth industrial revolution btw. Buying shows licences and selling membership to people, high technology btw.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on March 19, 2019, 01:27:56 pm
Sorry just going back to the graph, it states US 64% from 67% in 2015 and for Asia 31% from 28% in 2015. That's growth in Asia and shrinking in the US.
Oceania, South America and Canada/Mexico aren't shown, but whatever numbers that graph is using to make the percentages (100% without the aforementioned countries) do show Asian growth at the cost of the US.

Of course if you could explain where the graph came from and the context maybe it would shed some light on what you're trying to show with it? Just throwing a graph in does nothing to help your argument, even if it makes you feel smart.
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/self_description.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 19, 2019, 04:11:01 pm
Tiki, you said it was at the cost of the US. It's not, it's simply the US share decreasing as the overall market value increases. US tech didn't lose value in that period, it's just that Asian firms grew faster.

The graph shows the market value and regional/national affiliation of the 60 biggest tech platform companies in the world (title/description is in German but is fairly easy for even a beginner to translate). Unsurprisingly Oceania etc don't feature. Graph itself tells you it's attributed to Dr Holger Schmidt at TU Darmstadt/Handelsblatt/Netzoekonom.de/etc. Basically he's a digital economist who uses metrics like this to track the performance of the global tech sector. 

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on March 21, 2019, 02:46:09 am
I'm well aware what it says on the graph, thanks. My point was, you lead with an edgy "Good luck without us" then that graph. You provided no context, nor did it appear to relate at all to the discussion.

You're right that it's not necessarily at the cost of, although it still implies that the EU is growing at a faster rate than the US (to remain at a constant % where the US falls behind).
If it's just the distribution of the value of the top 60 companies, it ignores the vast numbers of BILLION dollar companies (Mrd. is billion, which is fairly easy for a even a beginner to translate).

Regardless, this graph (showing only 60 companies from one market sector of which the majority are not EU or UK) was just taken completely out of context and dropped into the discussion as if it in ANY way shows that the EU will suffer without the UK post Brexit. It does not show that (even though that's true). If you're going to use graphics to support your arguments please at least keep them relevant.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 21, 2019, 02:44:19 pm
We've talked about tech plenty of times on this thread, especially given Article 13. It is very relevant.

Comparing the top 60 companies is a valid metric. The FTSE 100, CAC 40, DAX 30 etc are all valid economic indicators for instance. Also the smallest company on there has a market cap of $2.8 Bn so it's not as if you have to be that massive to be represented.

And it's not simply 'one market sector'. Tech is shaking up just about every industry. Companies on that graph do everything from e-commerce to hospitality, finance, media etc. It's not that the EU will suffer, but rather that it's in a bad place regardless of what happens with Brexit. But since 'more Europe' isn't the right solution to the problem it's not going to be fixed any time soon.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 21, 2019, 05:02:20 pm
So are you guys gonna leave at the end of the month or not?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on March 21, 2019, 05:30:29 pm
Steven the point still stands, please explain how that graph supports your argument.
Demonstrating the market values of 60 international companies at a single point in time shows very little, especially without any focus on British (or European) companies.

There are other graphs which show a very different picture:
(https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-eu.s3.amazonaws.com%2F47992680-cc94-11e8-b276-b9069bde0956?source=next&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&width=700)
https://www.ft.com/content/cf51e840-7147-11e7-93ff-99f383b09ff9
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 21, 2019, 10:28:44 pm
I can't see that link as you need an FT subscription.

From the horse's mouth (EU Commission briefing paper published last week):

"Around the globe, traditionally strong industries are losing out to tech start-ups. Although this phenomenon is common around the world, the emerging champions of this competition
tend not to be European, but rather American and, increasingly, Chinese."

https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/EPSC_Industrial-Policy.pdf

Unfortunately the answer they've come up with (*spoiler alert*) is 'more Europe' but at least they've recognised the problem.

They also cite Schmidt's work where you can see the latest version of the graph (TL;DR Europe still a distant third with 3% share)
https://gyazo.com/d34cda5068207617b2274e944e4a93f8
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on March 23, 2019, 03:54:13 pm
Worthwhile read regarding hysterical, doomsday-type rhetoric climate activism.

https://quillette.com/2019/03/21/when-children-protest-adults-should-tell-them-the-truth/

"The medium of childlike innocence has become the environmental message, and been placed on a pedestal above criticism. But, given her own insistence on the vital urgency of the matter at hand, heartwarming optics ought to be rather less important than the lack of substance. Thunberg’s rhetoric has a tendency to lapse into demagogy—simplistic, emotive, accusatory, and apocalyptic."
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on March 23, 2019, 06:12:56 pm
I wish these people would just say they are trying to save humanity and not Earth.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on March 23, 2019, 11:57:34 pm
Just give her the Mandate of Heaven. Kids should rule, they know best.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on March 24, 2019, 10:44:44 pm
Looks like Trump isn't a Russian spy after all! Nobody could have seen this coming.
 
Sgt.Winters btfo'd
Furrnox btfo'd
Oatmeal (PBUH) btfo'd

 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Nero_ on March 26, 2019, 03:00:37 pm
No more memes, EU-friends :-\
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 26, 2019, 03:27:59 pm
EU Copyright Directive just passed 348 to 274. MEPs also rejected voting on amendments, which could have meant killing off Article 11 & 13. All depends now on how member states will choose to implement it in practice...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on March 28, 2019, 01:34:39 pm
LOL!

Quote
The EU’s internet-killing new Copyright Directive has become mired in a fresh layer of controversy after it emerged that multiple MEPs were “tricked” into voting the wrong way on it. Guido understands that an extra vote was inserted into the voting list at the last minute which threw most MEPs’ voting lists out of sync. Unlike the Commons where MPs have to physically make the decision to walk through lobbies, MEPs just robotically press buttons according to a long voting list handed out to them.

At least 13 MEPs have told the European Parliament they accidentally voted the wrong way. Now the EU has modified their individual voting records but has refused to revisit the result of the vote, despite the fact there was a majority of just 5 MEPs. The EU also rejected a direct request from MEPs to stage the entire vote again.
https://order-order.com/2019/03/28/meps-tricked-voting-wrong-way-article-13/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 30, 2019, 11:00:51 am
Yeah, you know, I don't think a British person has the right to claim some sort of moral high ground in anything related to parliaments right now.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on March 30, 2019, 06:00:54 pm
Yeah didn't you hear? Your country is struggling to do something properly, so you're banned from making any observation on other's systems until your record is sparkling.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on March 30, 2019, 08:07:56 pm
'struggling'.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: csderp on March 31, 2019, 04:43:12 am
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children
:thinking:
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Nikolai Ludovik on March 31, 2019, 01:44:35 pm
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children
:thinking:

Comparing that to communism has become a joke in itself, as you can see.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on March 31, 2019, 03:59:23 pm
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/14/court-rules-gun-maker-remington-can-be-sued-over-newtown-shooting.html

why

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children
:thinking:

Comparing that to communism has become a joke in itself, as you can see.

not really a joke if it is true  :P
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on March 31, 2019, 09:16:01 pm
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/14/court-rules-gun-maker-remington-can-be-sued-over-newtown-shooting.html

why

It's really not surprising coming from the State courts of a New England State.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on April 02, 2019, 11:12:28 pm
8 votes
8 noes

Parliament simply cannot deliver.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Golden. on April 02, 2019, 11:28:31 pm
Can't wait for EU to deny brexit extension  ;D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on April 03, 2019, 12:14:28 am
Can't wait for EU to deny brexit extension  ;D

Here's hoping.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on April 05, 2019, 03:33:31 pm
Wow another request for extension how surprising.

Gotta love how May's actual plan is to just ask parliament to accept her deal over and over again until they finally do.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on April 10, 2019, 03:13:58 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICZ2VkPCDlo

I'm very surprised that OU allowed this to happen. I'm even more surprised at the response it garnered. Perhaps the country is more united than ever in pursuing Brexit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on April 13, 2019, 08:40:00 pm
So StevenChilton, who will you be voting for in the European Elections?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on April 13, 2019, 11:05:39 pm
I'll be voting for the Brexit Party (basically Farage's new outfit). Probably wouldn't vote for them at Westminster elections, I'm just motivated to a) prevent Corbyn winning a national election, and b) giving the Tories a kicking.

Ironically due to Brexit this will be the first EU election in Britain where all the major parties will be primarily debating the EU issue. Previously the focus has mainly been on domestic politics despite the fact we're electing MEPs (rise of UKIP changed things a lot in 2014, but even then Labour were putting out TV ads focusing on energy bills, the NHS and the cost of childcare).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on April 25, 2019, 10:06:36 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/db0fdadaec45f65f0a88f9a3b0b09be1.jpg)

What's this supposed to mean?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 25, 2019, 10:55:41 pm
LMAO
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Mexican on April 26, 2019, 03:20:30 am
yanggang 2020
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Tommmy on April 30, 2019, 08:34:51 am
yanggang 2020
Where is my universal 1000 dollars
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on May 21, 2019, 09:44:05 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msW8PC8oA-4
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on May 21, 2019, 11:06:43 pm
God British politics is so cringy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Gi on May 21, 2019, 11:25:33 pm
Rest in peace the conservative party
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on May 22, 2019, 10:56:22 pm
Tomorrow the Dutch and the British are going to the polls for the European parliament. I'm pleased to announce I am stepping away from my Green tendencies for once. Gun' b gud
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on May 24, 2019, 11:47:07 am
God British politics is so cringy.
Which isn't?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 24, 2019, 02:15:40 pm
May is gone.
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-50NdPawLVY
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on May 25, 2019, 10:24:50 am
May is gone.
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-50NdPawLVY
[close]
Can't wait for a new idiot.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on May 25, 2019, 11:31:27 am
Brexit means nothing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Gi on May 26, 2019, 04:40:55 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48411735

Ah yes I'm sure it's the far right behind these attacks
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on May 26, 2019, 10:42:00 pm
RE: EU "parliamentary" elections...

I predict the EU Council will ignore the Spitzenkandidat process and Manfred Weber will not become President of the EU Commission despite the EPP being the largest party. Why? Because he's a terrible candidate (they actually managed to find someone worse than Juncker), and the fact that France & Germany aren't keen on him means they'll probably block it (and we all know France and Germany decide everything). Plus there's the danger that the nationalists could be the biggest party next time round...

 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on May 27, 2019, 02:10:29 am
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/2b92cc1bc82d310cc66bfc25f7e76cd4.png)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-48417378
[close]

Nobody could have seen this coming!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on May 27, 2019, 01:57:27 pm
Muh leave

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on May 28, 2019, 08:19:50 am
Brexit means nothing.
BREXIT... MEANS... BREXIT

oh btw, brexit is dumb and isn't going to happen. They're going to sit on their hands until people forget.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 28, 2019, 10:06:00 am
Brexit means nothing.
BREXIT... MEANS... BREXIT

oh btw, brexit is dumb and isn't going to happen. They're going to sit on their hands until people forget.
Nigel will eventually die bois we'll just wait him out..

RE: EU "parliamentary" elections...

I predict the EU Council will ignore the Spitzenkandidat process and Manfred Weber will not become President of the EU Commission despite the EPP being the largest party. Why? Because he's a terrible candidate (they actually managed to find someone worse than Juncker), and the fact that France & Germany aren't keen on him means they'll probably block it (and we all know France and Germany decide everything). Plus there's the danger that the nationalists could be the biggest party next time round...

I wish they'd make the President of the EU commission directly elected by the people of the EU.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ry@n on May 28, 2019, 06:51:12 pm
YOU CAN'T BARRAGE THE FARRAGE! the man we all needed, has become the man we have.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on June 12, 2019, 09:21:53 pm
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/techwatch/alexander-hall/2019/06/12/jordan-peterson-announces-free-speech-platform-thinkspot
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on June 13, 2019, 12:43:23 am
Wow another data selling website cool.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on June 14, 2019, 06:04:06 am
A free speech platform that isn't free is truly groundbreaking.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on June 15, 2019, 04:16:16 pm
https://twitter.com/guyparker2

With people like this leading our national regulatory bodies I think the EU is falling down our list our priorities...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svensson on June 15, 2019, 10:32:49 pm
https://www.itv.com/news/central/2019-06-12/blunt-utensils-replace-kitchen-knives-to-help-save-lives/

LMAO. If criminals want to commit murder, this silly ban won't hinder them.

First they banned civilian guns, then knives, and now kitchen utensils. Has it helped? Criminals will always find a way to commit crimes they are willing to do. If they want a gun, they will get their hands on one.


Spoiler
(https://i.redd.it/wnunz15c7wq01.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 17, 2019, 08:34:14 am
Wait Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt are the current frontrunners for the conservative leadership election? Big oofs.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on June 17, 2019, 09:41:49 pm
Of course. Johnson's ridicious hardline position is the only thing that will bring back voters to the Conservatives and MP's would like to keep their seats.

But hey someone please tell me how first-past-the-post single-member districts are such a good system for electing legislative bodies.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StevenChilton on June 20, 2019, 10:26:32 pm
Of course. Johnson's ridicious hardline position is the only thing that will bring back voters to the Conservatives and MP's would like to keep their seats.

Johnson doesn't have a hardline position, in fact he's managed to avoid saying publicly what his Brexit policy actually is other than that he's determined to leave by Oct 31st. He probably wants May's deal minus the NI backstop, which isn't that extreme.


But hey someone please tell me how first-past-the-post single-member districts are such a good system for electing legislative bodies.

FPTP is great so long as you have primary elections that ensures there's a two-party system. For instance there's no need to vote Liberal Democrat if you can instead vote for a centrist to be the official Tory or Labour candidate come the general election.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on June 21, 2019, 08:46:27 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRN62IebC04
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on June 21, 2019, 09:14:32 pm
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRN62IebC04
[close]

(https://www.innovationiseverywhere.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Iran-map-languages-3.png)

Where we dropping boys?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on June 21, 2019, 09:26:21 pm
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRN62IebC04
[close]

Spoiler
(https://www.innovationiseverywhere.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Iran-map-languages-3.png)
[close]

Where we dropping boys?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNKdwtd0tig
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on June 21, 2019, 09:52:32 pm
This better be a full blown ground war, none of this pussy "tactical" shit they pulled in Nam and 04. 80 million Hajis aren't just gonna let Khamenei walk with a few skirmishes and some oil fields burning. They are going to want BLOOD, and we will be forced to level their entire geographic position with artillery ordnance. This is precisely what the warhawks Pompeo, Bolton, and Commander in Chief Pumpkin want. Thousands of Americans and millions of Iranians will die over some shitty sand dune, and a mass humanitarian/geopolitical crisis will emerge from its ruin.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on June 22, 2019, 04:08:50 am
This better be a full blown ground war, none of this pussy "tactical" shit they pulled in Nam and 04. 80 million Hajis aren't just gonna let Khamenei walk with a few skirmishes and some oil fields burning. They are going to want BLOOD, and we will be forced to level their entire geographic position with artillery ordnance. This is precisely what the warhawks Pompeo, Bolton, and Commander in Chief Pumpkin want. Thousands of Americans and millions of Iranians will die over some shitty sand dune, and a mass humanitarian/geopolitical crisis will emerge from its ruin.
In my world politics we learned about there is always a war that happens between the falling world power and the second place, rapidly rising other power (so U.S.A. vs China). I predict the Russians and Chinese providing mass assistance to Iran and it will be one of the most economically damaging wars in addition to mass loss of life, if China/Russia decide to not get involved directly. It will cement China as the number one power and the fall of the United States as the global hegemonic power.

This is the invasion of Japan the U.S. never got if it happens (in terms of dedicated populace willing to kill themselves).
i'm generally pretty terrified of a nation that sends children to perform mineclearing with their bodies or frontal assaults on regular troops
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/afe42fecc870f5d05ad842655cba0f58/tumblr_mfbagpMM611rcoy9ro1_1280.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on June 22, 2019, 04:32:20 am
This better be a full blown ground war, none of this pussy "tactical" shit they pulled in Nam and 04. 80 million Hajis aren't just gonna let Khamenei walk with a few skirmishes and some oil fields burning. They are going to want BLOOD, and we will be forced to level their entire geographic position with artillery ordnance. This is precisely what the warhawks Pompeo, Bolton, and Commander in Chief Pumpkin want. Thousands of Americans and millions of Iranians will die over some shitty sand dune, and a mass humanitarian/geopolitical crisis will emerge from its ruin.
In my world politics we learned about there is always a war that happens between the falling world power and the second place, rapidly rising other power (so U.S.A. vs China). I predict the Russians and Chinese providing mass assistance to Iran and it will be one of the most economically damaging wars in addition to mass loss of life, if China/Russia decide to not get involved directly. It will cement China as the number one power and the fall of the United States as the global hegemonic power.

This is the invasion of Japan the U.S. never got if it happens (in terms of dedicated populace willing to kill themselves).
i'm generally pretty terrified of a nation that sends children to perform mineclearing with their bodies or frontal assaults on regular troops
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/afe42fecc870f5d05ad842655cba0f58/tumblr_mfbagpMM611rcoy9ro1_1280.jpg)
[close]
I'm sure Khamenei and Trump are fully willing to let a few hundred thousand perish for their goals. The former for God, and the latter for Economy. Either way, this could potentially be the opening to some of the worst atrocities in recent memory if left unchecked.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on June 22, 2019, 12:22:16 pm
But hey someone please tell me how first-past-the-post single-member districts are such a good system for electing legislative bodies.

FPTP is great so long as you have primary elections that ensures there's a two-party system. For instance there's no need to vote Liberal Democrat if you can instead vote for a centrist to be the official Tory or Labour candidate come the general election.

FPTP is terrible. Looking at the United States, there are few succesful primary challenges on the federal level and barely any challenges at all on the state level or local level. Linking geographical location to political preferences was an 18th necessesity you can easily do without now. Let people vote their actual preference, not the least-worst candidate.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on June 25, 2019, 07:11:45 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLcCZjDoWTQ

Yeah, I'm thinking he's based.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: SilverBolt on July 03, 2019, 09:30:02 am
In my world politics we learned about there is always a war that happens between the falling world power and the second place, rapidly rising other power (so U.S.A. vs China). I predict the Russians and Chinese providing mass assistance to Iran and it will be one of the most economically damaging wars in addition to mass loss of life, if China/Russia decide to not get involved directly. It will cement China as the number one power and the fall of the United States as the global hegemonic power.

This is the invasion of Japan the U.S. never got if it happens (in terms of dedicated populace willing to kill themselves).
i'm generally pretty terrified of a nation that sends children to perform mineclearing with their bodies or frontal assaults on regular troops
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/afe42fecc870f5d05ad842655cba0f58/tumblr_mfbagpMM611rcoy9ro1_1280.jpg)
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In addition to that, Iran is basically impossible to defeat in a defensive ground war if you look at the geography and size of the nation. Iran is basically Afghanistan on some massive steroids.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on July 07, 2019, 03:54:09 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/07/boris-johnson-not-bluffing-about-quitting-eu-on-31-october-with-no-deal-brexit

Big oof.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on July 16, 2019, 04:12:40 pm
Surprised that none of the Eurosceptics on this forum have been yelling about the next EU commisioner probably being a German from Merkel's party.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on July 16, 2019, 08:30:46 pm
Suprised that europeans want an icompetent german person to lead them. She got no knowledge about anything at all and most germans are just happy that she cant waste that much money on useless things as the did in the last time. Bad times for EU are coming :/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: SilverBolt on July 16, 2019, 08:49:25 pm
I really dont know who supports her, at least in Germany only the CDU/CSU openly supported her compared to basically everyone else openly opposing her (i think AFD and FDP did not have an definite stance on the issue)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Olafson on July 17, 2019, 10:39:27 am
 I am happy that she is gone as minister of defence, but I am not happy with her new job either...

I never liked her.

But I am sure our new minister is even worse than her. All of this is so stupid.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on July 23, 2019, 06:59:17 pm
They should just make it into a position elected directly by the people.

Anywho apparently Mueller is testifying tomorrow will be interesting to hear what he has too say not that I think it will change much.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Tardet on August 01, 2019, 09:36:42 am
Boris Johnson, the Brexsith Lord.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1156523923841998848

Credits to the third guy in the comments for the amazing pun.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on August 02, 2019, 11:28:20 pm
Obama's Democrat card has been officially REVOKED.

black man bad
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on August 09, 2019, 08:52:33 am
Surprised that none of the Eurosceptics on this forum have been yelling about the next EU commisioner probably being a German from Merkel's party.

Shh, eurocuck.

Yo is anyone here who thinks banning guns and blaming video games is the ultimate way to eliminate domestic terrorism and any kind of crime that involves guns? XD
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on August 09, 2019, 09:47:43 pm
Background checks, closing the gunshow loophole and investing more into people's mental health would probably be a good start. (But I don't knowv to much about the issue tbh)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: yecgga on August 09, 2019, 10:34:34 pm
don't mind me just posting random RTE pictures

(https://static.euronews.com/articles/stories/03/97/31/92/602x338_cmsv2_c0460b56-253b-5098-91ef-0506224d36ad-3973192.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on August 20, 2019, 12:01:32 am
https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1162858393847173122
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Duuring on August 28, 2019, 06:20:16 pm
Imagine being British right now.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on August 28, 2019, 06:33:30 pm
What happened to wanting us to leave ASAP... Scared, Duuring?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on August 28, 2019, 07:14:08 pm
I didn't even know she could do that
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ted on August 28, 2019, 08:43:01 pm
What happened to wanting us to leave ASAP... Scared, Duuring?

Imagine having the parliament sent into recess to avoid laws from being passed, that would look like someone being scared of a democratic institu..... oh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HaroldW on August 28, 2019, 08:54:19 pm
Imagine having the parliament sent into recess to avoid laws from being passed, that would look like someone being scared of a democratic institu..... oh

"Constitutional crisis!" cry the cronies banding together to sabotage the democratic process of delivering the will of the electorate. Save your utter projection.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Gi on August 28, 2019, 09:15:53 pm
There hasn't been a queens speech in 3 years, if anything this shows a push to move beyond brexit and start tackling our actual domestic issues once again
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on September 01, 2019, 04:50:15 am
Parliament has no authority outside of the express mandate of the sovereign, don't @ me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on September 21, 2019, 08:56:55 am
(https://i.gyazo.com/14edadae2523b5b14f5317a283b7afa5.png) (https://gyazo.com/14edadae2523b5b14f5317a283b7afa5)

found this interesting
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 21, 2019, 03:17:46 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/14edadae2523b5b14f5317a283b7afa5.png) (https://gyazo.com/14edadae2523b5b14f5317a283b7afa5)

found this interesting
I really don't understand how people think Bernie is going to pull this off. He gets lambasted by the media 24/7, and says a whole lot of shit that sounds completely unfeasible. As per usual, I anticipate he will pull the money he needs out of his own ass while being already $21 trillion in debt.

https://www.usdebtclock.org

His “free” plans for America involve: $35 trillion for healthcare, $16 trillion for climate change, $1.5 trillion for student loan debt, $2.5 trillion for housing.

Where the fuck is $55 trillion dollars just magically going to appear from? He certainly can't print that much without fucking the global economy and sending us all into a recession. Military spending in total is $600 billion per year, equaling $6 trillion over a decade, even though completely liquidating our military puts ourselves at risk from foreign invasion. Wall Street speculation tax would generate $400 billion over ten years according to independent analysis from tax policy center. Wealthy income (top 1%) tax at a rate of 70% would raise about $700 billion over ten years according to the Washington Post.

Assuming we eliminate our military, and jack up taxes on WS speculation and the wealthy, that provides an estimated total revenue of $7 trillion over a decade. That leaves $50 trillion still to be paid for in order to implement those policies.

At this rate the United States will tank like Greece by 2025-2030.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: SilverBolt on September 21, 2019, 04:47:56 pm
Please explain HOW not spending as much as the USA on military puts YOU at risk of an invasion
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 21, 2019, 05:57:36 pm
Please explain HOW not spending as much as the USA on military puts YOU at risk of an invasion
I was speaking hypothetically, as in getting rid of the ENTIRE military (and not a portion of it) budget wouldn't fulfill Bernie's plan by even 25%. Also, contrary to popular American-Nationalistic belief, this country is full of gun-toting morons who would run away before the first shot is even fired. Sure, the logistics of an invasion would be the biggest issue, and some would put up a fight, but not nearly enough to win. A big juicy country with plenty of resources and no standing military is easy pickings. We wouldn't stand a chance. Many, many people want this country reduced to nothing but a fleeting memory of a bygone era.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on September 21, 2019, 06:25:34 pm
I believe there would be a lot more tax policies to attempt to cover that sum, winters.

The deficit we’re taking in atm is putting us closer to that dreaded ww2 national debt
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 21, 2019, 07:17:16 pm
I believe there would be a lot more tax policies to attempt to cover that sum, winters.

The deficit we’re taking in atm is putting us closer to that dreaded ww2 national debt
I understand that, but it is assuming that the Democrats actually hold on to power for longer than 4 terms. If they lose any of the major branches decisively for even a single term, they are going to get set back. The Republicans aren't going to raise shit.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on September 21, 2019, 07:38:02 pm
I believe there would be a lot more tax policies to attempt to cover that sum, winters.

The deficit we’re taking in atm is putting us closer to that dreaded ww2 national debt
I understand that, but it is assuming that the Democrats actually hold on to power for longer than 4 terms. If they lose any of the major branches decisively for even a single term, they are going to get set back. The Republicans aren't going to raise shit.

I agree, I think trump will get reelected anyway though
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 22, 2019, 07:40:44 pm
It's worth noting that what Bernie Sanders is saying he will do is more akin to ideal circumstances than realistic goals. Politicians in every country generally have a door understanding of limitations (both economic, political, social and constitutional) that restrict their ideal policy implementation. The U.S system is built on checks on power and so its very difficult for any President (no matter how moderate) to accomplish their policy goals regardless for controversy.

I'd say Bernie is making big claims due to his wish to change the course of Left-Wing politics in the U.S. Realistically he can only accomplish a moderate amount of reform, but selling it on a socialist basis will allow for him to push forward these ideas with greater ease as he'll at the very least have a mandate with which to tackle these issues, if not the economic or political ability.

It's kinda like how Donald Trump said he was going to tear up NAFTA until he realized (upon entering Washington) that NAFTA plays a vital role in the U.S's trading power with Canada. Or how he thought Mexico was going to pay for the border wall due to a trade deficit (which makes zero sense for a multitude of reasons.

As for the comments with regards to the U.S military: the U.S needs to maintain its military no matter what, the U.S holds a hegemony and without the means to back it up would open up the world to another rising power (China) to start exerting hostile influences on other nations.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ShintoSkookum on October 01, 2019, 04:58:02 am
why people want to put the orange man in peach???

orange bad peach good???
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on October 01, 2019, 06:11:29 am
It's evident that the Senate wouldn't do shit even if he was guilty. Positive change is impossible, and it's time the American people accepted that.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on October 02, 2019, 08:24:45 pm
Bernie with serious health problems. I wonder what this means for his campaign or if he'll recover
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on October 02, 2019, 09:51:06 pm
Bernie with serious health problems. I wonder what this means for his campaign or if he'll recover
It's going to seriously damage the voter optics on his campaign. Think about it, an 80 year old man recovering from fucking heart surgery wanting to lead the country. Bless Bernie but this seriously might have just screwed him over. Establishment Democrats and Warren/Biden astroturfers will relentlessly push this story until Super Tuesday, all the while Republicans shove it in their faces come election day and beyond.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on October 03, 2019, 12:58:45 am
lol, mans gonna get assassinated by a draft in the oval office
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Thunderstormer on October 03, 2019, 01:47:36 am
Bernie and Biden both have the age/health concerns.   Both will be in their 80s by the time their first term is over should they be elected.  For many people, there is a concern they may die in office, which only gets greater in their second term.(bernie would be 87? by the time his 2nd term would be over)  it is always fascinating seeing how much the president ages over their term(s) in office.

Warren and Trump would both be in their 70s when they finish their 2nd terms.   

IDK about the other candidates, but i believe they are all younger than the above.

Carter is still around and active even at his of 95? so who knows what will happen to bernies campaign.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on October 03, 2019, 01:51:44 am
carter should run
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on October 04, 2019, 04:09:19 pm
Carter is still around and active even at his of 95? so who knows what will happen to bernies campaign.
To be fair, Carter is someone who lives a nice life and actually helps people himself unlike most politicians.

I feel like eventually America will pass term limits and age limits for public office, but it will probably take another generation for that to happen. There is no way that the bigwigs would allow it now.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DaMonkey on October 04, 2019, 04:53:44 pm
It's evident that the Senate wouldn't do shit even if he was guilty. Positive change is impossible, and it's time the American people accepted that.
Congress really wasn't designed to make sweeping policy changes for the whole of the population of the country except in cases of massive unanimity. This polarizing gridlock is a consequence of centralizing power in institutions that were never meant to have those powers. If a more central authority is desired, either by the peoples here or the government, then a new system is required. People seem content to try and fit a square peg through a round hole, and then get upset when it doesn't go through - shouldn't be surprising, the voting public has always only cared for its own largess and aggrandizement.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 05, 2019, 03:20:34 am
Bernie with serious health problems. I wonder what this means for his campaign or if he'll recover
It's going to seriously damage the voter optics on his campaign. Think about it, an 80 year old man recovering from fucking heart surgery wanting to lead the country. Bless Bernie but this seriously might have just screwed him over. Establishment Democrats and Warren/Biden astroturfers will relentlessly push this story until Super Tuesday, all the while Republicans shove it in their faces come election day and beyond.
Bernie's health concerns doesn't really matter that much when he's already stagnated in the polls. As it's looking right now it will be between Biden & Warren.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on October 05, 2019, 06:09:09 am
Bernie with serious health problems. I wonder what this means for his campaign or if he'll recover
It's going to seriously damage the voter optics on his campaign. Think about it, an 80 year old man recovering from fucking heart surgery wanting to lead the country. Bless Bernie but this seriously might have just screwed him over. Establishment Democrats and Warren/Biden astroturfers will relentlessly push this story until Super Tuesday, all the while Republicans shove it in their faces come election day and beyond.
Bernie's health concerns doesn't really matter that much when he's already stagnated in the polls. As it's looking right now it will be between Biden & Warren.
Can't wait for the Bernie Bros to lose their minds again.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on October 05, 2019, 07:26:39 pm
I’m still haven’t met anyone who supports biden
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 09, 2019, 01:28:27 am
Bernie with serious health problems. I wonder what this means for his campaign or if he'll recover
It's going to seriously damage the voter optics on his campaign. Think about it, an 80 year old man recovering from fucking heart surgery wanting to lead the country. Bless Bernie but this seriously might have just screwed him over. Establishment Democrats and Warren/Biden astroturfers will relentlessly push this story until Super Tuesday, all the while Republicans shove it in their faces come election day and beyond.
Bernie's health concerns doesn't really matter that much when he's already stagnated in the polls. As it's looking right now it will be between Biden & Warren.
Can't wait for the Bernie Bros to lose their minds again.
I’m still haven’t met anyone who supports biden

It's funny because according to polling more Bernie supporters would go to Biden then Warren should Bernie pull out of the election.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on October 09, 2019, 02:22:36 am
Once the again, the Democrats will (probably) self-destruct and leave us in an even worse situation. Trump is showing signs of dementia and has ramped up his tweets to the point of denial, it's rad dude.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on October 09, 2019, 07:46:39 pm
RIP's in the chat for my boys, the Kurds. You all don't deserve this.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on October 09, 2019, 08:11:27 pm
RIP's in the chat for my boys, the Kurds. You all don't deserve this.
They need another Saladin.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 10, 2019, 09:39:02 pm
At least there's bipartisan support for something.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on October 12, 2019, 04:01:16 am
Seems like Trump have started to backpedal on pulling out having been a good idea.
This tweet is still a sick meme though:
Spoiler
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/248941185836515329/631269648016343061/128d7440055b2d275b6d4b9bb2b982ca.png)
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Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on October 16, 2019, 07:18:51 am
Gamers are too oppressed
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: McPero on October 21, 2019, 08:07:48 am
RIP's in the chat for my boys, the Kurds. You all don't deserve this.
They need another Saladin.
Assad = Saladin.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ted on November 17, 2019, 10:20:30 am
Remember?

"With so much chaos, someone will do something stupid. And when they do, things will turn nasty."

(https://m.wsj.net/video/20191111/hkshoot1111/hkshoot1111_960x540.jpg)


I'm not aiming at the justification of this shooting itself. Personally, from watching the situation, I can somehow relate to that cop opening fire. Being outnumbered and attacked, that gun could just as well have been turned against himself. (Btw, would a link to that be "appropriate" for the topic or fall under Rule 5?)
But well - put people into a situation where no side will back off, keep that situation going, and that's what you get. Not a single stupidity, but a row of stupid actions leading to a point where the logic decision is to shoot. Problem here in my opinion: While V did show the "good" outcome, I'm not so sure about Hong Kong at this point. After all, there's still the guy below....


(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT1fpMNnT_Zv2kZ6d0hNg38qEshoDvJI09T0LIFSLDftLmVBg52)

And really all he needs to do is wait and see the events unfold.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on December 13, 2019, 01:08:53 am
So, can Scotland leave yet?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Gi on December 13, 2019, 12:57:33 pm
Bye bye labour
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ry@n on December 13, 2019, 07:38:48 pm
Bye bye labour
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Norwegian13 on December 20, 2019, 11:36:44 pm
https://youtu.be/cre0in5n-1E
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Golden. on December 21, 2019, 04:35:09 pm
Can't believe the official account posted that. That's hilarious.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ry@n on December 21, 2019, 04:48:08 pm
the sound of get brexit done is music to my ears as it is
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Smylie on December 21, 2019, 05:40:41 pm
All political parties are wank, might aswell just kill ourselves and get out of this shitty world anyway
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ry@n on December 21, 2019, 05:57:37 pm
All political parties are wank, might aswell just kill ourselves and get out of this shitty world anyway

dont be that person, and definitly don't be that person on a 'political thread'.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Smylie on December 22, 2019, 10:58:57 am
All political parties are wank, might aswell just kill ourselves and get out of this shitty world anyway

dont be that person, and definitly don't be that person on a 'political thread'.

I just feel as if the majority of parties apart from maybe the tories, labour and the lib dems have no clue what they would do in power once they do that one goal that is the forefront of their parties ideas e.g. i like greens politics on climate change but absolutely nothing else really. Then out of those 3 parties left, labours is fucking stupid atm and it’s kinda a train reck, lib dems are retards who want another vote and the tories would kill their kids if they could keep in power oh and I quite like the wealth fare state so.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 22, 2019, 01:46:00 pm
If you like welfare you vote labour d00d also Corbyn said he won't be taking labour into the next election so they will probably go for someone more moderate next.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Golden. on December 24, 2019, 06:03:28 pm
No. Corbyn and his Marxist followers are voting in the same far left winged zealot candidate to replace corbyn. It will be years before labour is dignified again.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Gi on December 24, 2019, 07:27:41 pm
If you like welfare you vote labour d00d also Corbyn said he won't be taking labour into the next election so they will probably go for someone more moderate next.
All of our parties are in varying levels in favour of the welfare state, as it would be political suicide not to be. And in regards to the next leader being moderate, considering the party has been highjacked by momentum, that's a doubt.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 26, 2019, 02:32:20 am
Generally speaking right-wing parties love to cut welfare as much as public opinion allows.
But conservatives are a centre-right party you might say and I would probably agree, but from what I've seen heard and read about Boris Johnson he is not.
He's even gone so far as to call poor people "losers".
https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-said-britain-poorest-chavs-losers-criminals-addicts-burglars-2019-11?r=US&IR=T

This article also explains how life as a poor person have gotten significantly harder under conservative leadership.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/29/uk-deep-poverty-study-austerity

Now I don't believe Johnson will demolish the welfare system entierly or anything extreme like that but I think he'll continue making life harder for the poor & benefit the rich.

Semi related Boris + conservatives do get donations from the rich & even billionaries in some instances.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/faces-super-rich-tory-donors-20938206
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/05/tory-leadership-donations-whos-really-backing-boris-johnson

(Now I'll admit I've been biased while looking this stuff up by not also looking into Corbyn and Labour or fact check much of this.)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on January 03, 2020, 04:54:52 am
gear up boys were going to war
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on January 03, 2020, 05:04:31 am
gear up boys were going to war

delete ur fucking signature
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 07, 2020, 04:34:46 pm
I think it's safe to say that we lost. It's over.

We tried. We really did, but at the end of the day, bureaucrats and not people determine how the world is run. Australia is just the beginning. When Trump wins and the UK falls apart, that will be the final blow to civilization as we know it. Humanity raped the world and now it is going to rape us back. This is merely the great filter in action; a species rendered helpless in the face of their own mortality. Another evolutionary flunk tossed into the garbage bin of cosmic history.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Skaen on January 07, 2020, 05:00:41 pm
You think WW3 will take its place soon? With all the tension now growing between the US and Iran.. Because if they go to war, Russia might join in as well. And when Russia joins in the war, the NATO will follow most likely too. As well as all the nations allies. I am not much of a politics person, so forgive me if I talk bullshit. It is just that this subject worries me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on January 07, 2020, 06:10:59 pm
You think WW3 will take its place soon? With all the tension now growing between the US and Iran.. Because if they go to war, Russia might join in as well. And when Russia joins in the war, the NATO will follow most likely too. As well as all the nations allies. I am not much of a politics person, so forgive me if I talk bullshit. It is just that this subject worries me.
No
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: William on January 07, 2020, 11:13:41 pm
The only winner from an Iranian conflict is China. In fact, China wins in every scenario. The dragon only grows stronger as the eagle grows weaker fighting useless wars for oil in an economy that is trying to shift away from it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dom13WorstNW on January 08, 2020, 03:11:07 am
So Iran repsonded with missile strikes against U.S. bases in Iraq.

https://twitter.com/farhad965/status/1214703768123645952?s=20
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ZeroNight on January 08, 2020, 03:56:40 am
lets gooooo
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on January 08, 2020, 08:27:45 am
i hate the "we're going to war"

snip you're 35% body fat and cant do a push up, I dont think there's a "we" here
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on January 08, 2020, 04:51:12 pm
i hate the "we're going to war"

snip you're 35% body fat and cant do a push up, I dont think there's a "we" here
will you call us civilians next or show us your camaro
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on January 08, 2020, 10:00:11 pm
i hate the "we're going to war"

snip you're 35% body fat and cant do a push up, I dont think there's a "we" here
will you call us civilians next or show us your camaro
No because I’m not an arrogant boot that thinks he’s better than someone just because he thinks he has a hard job. And there are a lot of military people here it’s not like it’s that hard to get in. Also it’s a Dodge Challenger. Got a good 30% APR deal on it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on January 09, 2020, 03:37:22 pm
i hate the "we're going to war"

snip you're 35% body fat and cant do a push up, I dont think there's a "we" here
will you call us civilians next or show us your camaro
No because I’m not an arrogant boot that thinks he’s better than someone just because he thinks he has a hard job. And there are a lot of military people here it’s not like it’s that hard to get in. Also it’s a Dodge Challenger. Got a good 30% APR deal on it
good shit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 10, 2020, 02:43:57 am
I don't know who is dumber here. The US killing a top military general, or Iran blowing up a Ukrainian commercial plane filled with fucking Canadians.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on January 10, 2020, 05:07:16 am
Old canada wouldve probably stormed Irans trenches by now and instilled hockey as the national sport
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on January 10, 2020, 05:28:27 am
I don't know who is dumber here. The US killing a top military general, or Iran blowing up a Ukrainian commercial plane filled with fucking Canadians.

Definitely the latter. I don't really know what's dumb about eliminating a dangerous terrorist.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on January 10, 2020, 09:02:04 pm
Bomb them like Croatia
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on January 11, 2020, 12:21:21 am
I don't know who is dumber here. The US killing a top military general, or Iran blowing up a Ukrainian commercial plane filled with fucking Canadians.

Definitely the latter. I don't really know what's dumb about eliminating a dangerous terrorist.

Because it creates tension between the US & Iran? Because it creates a possible proxy esque war in Iraq? I'm not say killing him was good or bad but it will have repercussions for the US and allies. If you can't see that you're really naive.

I mean Iran have already (unsuccesfully) attacked coalition bases since this occured and more damaging Iraq have asked the US to leave Iraq.

Also it's quite obvious they shot down the commercial plane by accident it had like 80 Iranian citizens onboard and Iran had absolutely nothing to gain from shooting it down.
Was it a dumb error? Yes, was it a dumb planned foreign policy move? Probably not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on January 11, 2020, 12:44:50 am
I don't know who is dumber here. The US killing a top military general, or Iran blowing up a Ukrainian commercial plane filled with fucking Canadians.

Definitely the latter. I don't really know what's dumb about eliminating a dangerous terrorist.

Because it creates tension between the US & Iran? Because it creates a possible proxy esque war in Iraq? I'm not say killing him was good or bad but it will have repercussions for the US and allies. If you can't see that you're really naive.

Also it's quite obvious they shot down the commercial plane by accident it had like 80 Iranian citizens onboard and Iran had absolutely nothing to gain from shooting it down.

There would always be tension in the region though?

I'd like to see more severe sanctions on the Iranian pro-terrorist government.

And it'd be hilarious to see the canucks beating the shit out of Iran anyway. :p
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Carolus. on January 11, 2020, 02:34:26 am
Alot of Swedish passports died in that Irani shootdown :'(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on January 11, 2020, 04:10:06 pm
Alot of Swedish passports died in that Irani shootdown :'(

Jeez 176 civilians just died dude.

I don't see how their ethnicity matters.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Jakob van Bicke on January 11, 2020, 04:40:21 pm
I don't know who is dumber here. The US killing a top military general, or Iran blowing up a Ukrainian commercial plane filled with fucking Canadians.

Definitely the latter. I don't really know what's dumb about eliminating a dangerous terrorist.

Because it creates tension between the US & Iran? Because it creates a possible proxy esque war in Iraq? I'm not say killing him was good or bad but it will have repercussions for the US and allies. If you can't see that you're really naive.

Also it's quite obvious they shot down the commercial plane by accident it had like 80 Iranian citizens onboard and Iran had absolutely nothing to gain from shooting it down.

There would always be tension in the region though?

I'd like to see more severe sanctions on the Iranian pro-terrorist government.

And it'd be hilarious to see the canucks beating the shit out of Iran anyway. :p

First of all: ofc it's dumb to bomb a government official of another country in that goddamn country. That's an act of war. (Americans would call it terrorism)
Second of all: I doubt that sanctions would have a that large influence on how a religious fanatic runs that country. It might fuck up their economy a bit, but that's gonna hit the Iranian people way harder than their government (it would also strengthen the anti-western propaganda and lead to even more tensions)
and last of all: it'd be hilarious to see a war in which multiple thousand if not even more than a million people could lose their lives? If you're serious about that then you're a lost case and should maybe visit a psychiatrist
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on January 11, 2020, 08:44:20 pm
Alot of Swedish passports died in that Irani shootdown :'(

Jeez 176 civilians just died dude.

I don't see how their ethnicity matters.
if your brother died vs if some kid from china got ran over, which would you care about more about. Its human nature homie
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on January 14, 2020, 06:31:02 am
Alot of Swedish passports died in that Irani shootdown :'(

Jeez 176 civilians just died dude.

I don't see how their ethnicity matters.
if your brother died vs if some kid from china got ran over, which would you care about more about. Its human nature homie

Yes, so? I still find it highly inconsiderate to make race ”jokes” about civilians who just died.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on January 14, 2020, 04:30:21 pm
Alot of Swedish passports died in that Irani shootdown :'(

Jeez 176 civilians just died dude.

I don't see how their ethnicity matters.
if your brother died vs if some kid from china got ran over, which would you care about more about. Its human nature homie

Yes, so? I still find it highly inconsiderate to make race ”jokes” about civilians who just died.

Good for you.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on January 15, 2020, 12:09:06 am
Edgy
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on February 06, 2020, 03:43:24 pm
Several caucuses were decided by coin toss. The caucus system is a joke..
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on February 06, 2020, 06:18:27 pm
Ties decided by coin toss, what's the problem?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on February 06, 2020, 11:22:39 pm
WE ARE RULED BY MORONS!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Eamon on February 07, 2020, 12:27:46 am
Furrnox must be running some immigration centre in Sweden, poor carolus
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on March 04, 2020, 02:47:08 am
Once again, the youth vote turns out be virtually nonexistent. Boomers will rule elections till they enter hospice care. This is both sad and hilarious. Millennials are arguably the most pathetic generation in history. They bemoan their state and yet do nada when it's their time to shine.

Warren was dumb not to have dropped and endorsed Bernie. She might have screwed him over in several states he sweeped last cycle. Bloomberg is a corporate shill but that is to be expected. At least he has the unwavering support of American Samoa and it's 350 voters! Anyways, Texas will ignore closing down voting booths in areas that are heavily populated by minorities. Very nice indeed.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/BufGkev.png)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on March 04, 2020, 06:36:28 pm
Once again, the youth vote turns out be virtually nonexistent. Boomers will rule elections till they enter hospice care. This is both sad and hilarious. Millennials are arguably the most pathetic generation in history. They bemoan their state and yet do nada when it's their time to shine.

Warren was dumb not to have dropped and endorsed Bernie. She might have screwed him over in several states he sweeped last cycle. Bloomberg is a corporate shill but that is to be expected. At least he has the unwavering support of American Samoa and it's 350 voters! Anyways, Texas will ignore closing down voting booths in areas that are heavily populated by minorities. Very nice indeed.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/BufGkev.png)
[close]
Really odd decision, thought she would endorse sanders to give progressives a shot.


Stands her ground and gets third in her own state LOL
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Wastee on March 04, 2020, 06:41:03 pm
Once again, the youth vote turns out be virtually nonexistent. Boomers will rule elections till they enter hospice care. This is both sad and hilarious. Millennials are arguably the most pathetic generation in history. They bemoan their state and yet do nada when it's their time to shine.

Warren was dumb not to have dropped and endorsed Bernie. She might have screwed him over in several states he sweeped last cycle. Bloomberg is a corporate shill but that is to be expected. At least he has the unwavering support of American Samoa and it's 350 voters! Anyways, Texas will ignore closing down voting booths in areas that are heavily populated by minorities. Very nice indeed.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/BufGkev.png)
[close]
Really odd decision, thought she would endorse sanders to give progressives a shot.


Stands her ground and gets third in her own state LOL
“I don’t vote in primaries just elections”
INTO
“HOW IS THIS OUR CANDIDATE WHAT THE FUCK WHY ARE PEOPLE STUPID”
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on March 04, 2020, 06:45:38 pm
Once again, the youth vote turns out be virtually nonexistent. Boomers will rule elections till they enter hospice care. This is both sad and hilarious. Millennials are arguably the most pathetic generation in history. They bemoan their state and yet do nada when it's their time to shine.

Warren was dumb not to have dropped and endorsed Bernie. She might have screwed him over in several states he sweeped last cycle. Bloomberg is a corporate shill but that is to be expected. At least he has the unwavering support of American Samoa and it's 350 voters! Anyways, Texas will ignore closing down voting booths in areas that are heavily populated by minorities. Very nice indeed.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/BufGkev.png)
[close]
Really odd decision, thought she would endorse sanders to give progressives a shot.


Stands her ground and gets third in her own state LOL
It’s pure ego. She stayed in to spite Bernie and got wiped in the process. The Left is superb at self-destruction.

Can’t wait to hear about how the youngins’ are drowning in debt and long work hours when not even 20% of them came out to vote. I guess talking shit on social media really doesn’t translate to decent voter turnout. Who would’ve thought that? They voluntarily dig their own graves while imagining that there is a gun to their heads.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Thunderstormer on March 05, 2020, 03:42:47 am
It is not surprising that the youth/younger vote is lower than older people.  Has been for a very long time.  It is far easier for older people to go out and vote than younger people. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on March 05, 2020, 03:40:23 pm
It is not surprising that the youth/younger vote is lower than older people.  Has been for a very long time.  It is far easier for older people to go out and vote than younger people.
Being an idealogical purist didn't help Bernie either. He doesn't make compromises on anything and makes the DNC out to be evil. It might have worked with the GOP, since they fall in line, but the more picky Democrats wouldn't have it. Bernie overshot his expectations and is now risking getting his entire campaign sunk over it.

You can't expect to walk in Washington gleefully when you've burnt nearly bridge down on the way there.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Thunderstormer on March 05, 2020, 05:06:29 pm
I once heard a saying along the lines of "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line." Over the years, i find that to be fairly accurate.  Whoever does a better job uniting their party, and swaying independents will win. 

Bernie has a lot of very loyal followers but that love doesnt go far beyond them. 

As i am posting this, there are reports Warren is backing out of the race.  If so, its basically a 2 person race. When it comes to the moderates vs the progressives, moderates have the advantage imo.   How many states coming up will bernie win, and win by  a large enough margin to build a large delegate count compared to Biden?  I can see a lot of states coming up, including large states where if i had to guess, bernie will lose hard.

With all that said, biden hasn't run a good campaign.  The debates, fundraising, and the other campaign activities haven't been great.     It amuses me how many people forgot this after he won SC and did very well on super tuesday.  It is much easier to blame the people in the first 3 states as being out of touch than admit it.  Why would/should people vote for you if you dont put any effort in and performed so poorly up to that point?      It wasn't until it was do or die for him that he finally showed up.   TBH it feels like he just assumed he would win and hasnt put much effort in.  Brand and being Obamas guy is what saved him.  If he does poorly going forward, i can see sanders winning. 

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on March 05, 2020, 05:50:52 pm
I once heard a saying along the lines of "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line." Over the years, i find that to be fairly accurate.  Whoever does a better job uniting their party, and swaying independents will win. 

Bernie has a lot of very loyal followers but that love doesnt go far beyond them. 

As i am posting this, there are reports Warren is backing out of the race.  If so, its basically a 2 person race. When it comes to the moderates vs the progressives, moderates have the advantage imo.   How many states coming up will bernie win, and win by  a large enough margin to build a large delegate count compared to Biden?  I can see a lot of states coming up, including large states where if i had to guess, bernie will lose hard.

With all that said, biden hasn't run a good campaign.  The debates, fundraising, and the other campaign activities haven't been great.     It amuses me how many people forgot this after he won SC and did very well on super tuesday.  It is much easier to blame the people in the first 3 states as being out of touch than admit it.  Why would/should people vote for you if you dont put any effort in and performed so poorly up to that point?      It wasn't until it was do or die for him that he finally showed up.   TBH it feels like he just assumed he would win and hasnt put much effort in.  Brand and being Obamas guy is what saved him.  If he does poorly going forward, i can see sanders winning.
Most of the populace wants a return to "normalcy". What they don't want is a full fledged revolution that tries to tear down long-standing institutions. Americans don't want to hear about how the government is screwing everything up; that is why the loved Obama. He gave a few nice speeches and everybody went back to their own thing (except the neocons with their birthing conspiracy).

Take the New Green Deal for instance. If the climate crisis is as bad as they say, then immediate action will have to be taken. An unprecedented amount of effort will be needed in order to shift our power grid away from fossil fuels. On top of that, they want single-payer healthcare, free college, housing, and many other overhauls, by 2030. This is impossible. Even in small incremental doses, you would find pushback from every corporation that benefits from the production of harmful pollutants that people consume. Not only do they have to be convinced that renewable energy is more profitable, you also have to make them actually believe that climate change is an actual ongoing crisis.

When it comes down to moderates vs leftists, the former will win the foreseeable future. No matter how you twist it, the word "socialism" has been castigated due to decades of Red Scare propaganda. Even if progressive policies are what you would call center right everywhere else, the name alone squanders any chance of it making leeway. It is sad but that is where we are at, nothing will change until the problems are at our doorstep and no longer a distant crackle.

The internet amplifies a very vocal minority that makes itself out be the ones that will launch widespread change, when in reality no one cares enough. The progressives can blame moderates and low information voters all they want, but alienating them will only make things harder.

Bernie in 2020 won 50% of his home state, that is a 36% decrease from 2016. Shocking? Not really. It's widely held suspicion that most of the votes towards Sanders that year were anti-Hillary, and very little thought went towards anything else. Now that there are more tolerable candidates to vote for, he dropped significantly nearly everywhere. As it showed on Super Tuesday, Bernie just isn't that popular when you discount his rabid following. The voters don't need to hear anything of substance from Biden, only that he was Obama's VP.

I don't think the debates count for much anymore. Bloomberg used typical conservative talking points on why Bernie couldn't beat Trump, was roasted on national television, and still beat out or was on par with Warren. If by some miracle that Super Tuesday was a wakeup call for Bernie's coalition, then maybe we will see a shift, but I sincerely doubt it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Thunderstormer on March 05, 2020, 06:21:34 pm
Amusingly, socialist policies are widely liked by americans if the word socialist isn't attached to it or the person advocating it.  SS, medicare, medicade, and things like food stamps come to mind.  I thought i remember hearing that millennials and those after dont have the same view on the word socialism as previous generations do.   They were born after or near the end of the cold war.   They dont have the same view about the government and its role.

and i agree.  i dont think the idea of a total revolution into most parts of people's lives will sell well.(left or right)   Not until things reach a certain boiling point economically and socially. 

the internet has always been a tool for the vocal minority to sound and act louder than they really are.  It does make it harder to see what the majority actually think. 

i think a large chunk of the vote for bernie and even trump was anti hillary. 

i think debates are mainly about not messing up and showing you can do them well more than anything else. Unless you have several stand out moments in said debate.  Actual debates about the pros and cons of various ideas doesnt happen until you have 2-3 people who are not shouting over each other. With more time actually discussing a topic rather than getting your prepared 30 second line out. At the same time, everyone probably has their mind made up by that point and dont really care about any one issue.  They just want their person to win.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on March 05, 2020, 08:09:37 pm
waiting on cancel culture to catch up to old uncle joe. This is gonna be fun to see
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on March 05, 2020, 09:20:48 pm
waiting on cancel culture to catch up to old uncle joe. This is gonna be fun to see
The disinformation spread during this election season is going to be horrible. Bloomberg might decide to buy as many ad spots as he can to help the Democrats, while Trump will focus on Joe's senility and pedophilic tendencies. Two old codgers duking it out for the most powerful position on the planet; it's going to be beautiful.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on March 11, 2020, 05:09:38 am
Ah well, at least Bernie tried. It's a pity too, maybe he will inspire someone more charismatic to head the progressive movement.  Now, who to pick from. A rambling, senile dinosaur, or a raging, wannabe authoritarian narcissist?

Spoiler
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Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on March 12, 2020, 02:19:38 pm
Ah well, at least Bernie tried. It's a pity too, maybe he will inspire someone more charismatic to head the progressive movement.  Now, who to pick from. A rambling, senile dinosaur, or a raging, wannabe authoritarian narcissist?

Spoiler
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/771/794/369.jpg)
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no bullshit joe should be in a nursing  home right now, wtf is going on? Who voted for this??

laughing stock of the world, how did we get these two?!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on March 13, 2020, 02:13:31 pm
I wonder if Trump's balant incompetency during this pandemic will affect him at the polls. If it gets bad enough, he will start pointing fingers at the immigrants and use it as justification for the wall. On the other hand, enough deaths and inaction could turn key voters against him come November.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on May 01, 2020, 09:34:05 pm
Can't tell if Biden is lying through his teeth about Tara Reade or his dementia has kicked into overdrive.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on May 01, 2020, 11:00:05 pm
If you like welfare you vote labour d00d also Corbyn said he won't be taking labour into the next election so they will probably go for someone more moderate next.
All of our parties are in varying levels in favour of the welfare state, as it would be political suicide not to be. And in regards to the next leader being moderate, considering the party has been highjacked by momentum, that's a doubt.
ed milliband is tough enough
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: The Rebel on May 06, 2020, 05:45:07 am
Can't tell if Biden is lying through his teeth about Tara Reade or his dementia has kicked into overdrive.
He's lying right through his teeth and the media is right behind him trying to cover up any accusation she has.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on May 06, 2020, 04:25:17 pm
Hungary chill bro
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on May 22, 2020, 10:07:10 pm
This is just TOO good

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-black-voters-considering-trump/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Elias on May 23, 2020, 12:09:32 am
any 1 antifascist here or just cunts?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on May 23, 2020, 12:13:33 am
any 1 antifascist here or just cunts?
Elias what do you consider as antifascist? Cause I hate Fascists. But I do believe you wouldnt call antifascist
Title: Re: Dutch, German & French Elections Thread, or The General Political Thread
Post by: Josh Faraday on May 23, 2020, 12:25:40 am
Is Le Pen actually winning in France?
Sure lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 23, 2020, 12:37:27 pm
any 1 antifascist here or just cunts?

I'd rather be a fascist than an antifa.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 29, 2020, 06:13:16 pm
Tragic how the public responds to the tragedy at Minneapolis.  Unacceptable. Prayers for all the normal and peaceful citizens <3
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on May 29, 2020, 06:25:21 pm
Tragic how the public responds to the tragedy at Minneapolis.  Unacceptable. Prayers for all the normal and peaceful citizens <3
What's currently happening is unfortunate but entirely unpreventable. Whether or not race relations are as bad as claimed by the media, it's clear that they have won the war on information in this category. The message is set and there is no going back now. Much like the deaths of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown, George Floyd's death will once again bring to attention the injustices and prejudices African-Americans face on a daily basis. It's obvious that looting and burning won't do much to help the cause, and they will use Floyd's death as justification for their actions. Collateral damage is never taken out of definition quite like it is when there is a martyr involved. There's this section in "The Anarchist's Cookbook" I believe that focuses on a similar issue to the one in question. It extrapolates from historic examples that humans, no matter their class, color, or sex, will exploit a crisis for their own benefit (and potentially amusement). The scapegoat here is the police. In terms of scale, the situation and perspective has gotten so bad that there isn't anything (barring maybe hanging the guilty officers publicly) that will appease the public. They are the perfect scapegoat, and will be used as such to substantiate any acts of civil disobedience that may occur.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on May 29, 2020, 06:29:55 pm
Tragic how the public responds to the tragedy at Minneapolis.  Unacceptable. Prayers for all the normal and peaceful citizens <3
yes it is tragic that the police officer can run off to his vacation home in florida after murdering someone
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on May 29, 2020, 06:37:53 pm
Tragic how the public responds to the tragedy at Minneapolis.  Unacceptable. Prayers for all the normal and peaceful citizens <3
yes it is tragic that the police officer can run off to his vacation home in florida after murdering someone
The US police force is interesting in the fact that it rarely, if ever, calls out it's own members for illegal acts. They are very tight knit, and close ranks when the situation calls for it.

Half of the cops who partook in Rodney King's beating got 30 months (eventually reversed), the other half got off scot-free. Even after the video footage and one of the worst riots in American history, they STILL defend their actions.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on May 29, 2020, 06:45:54 pm
Tragic how the public responds to the tragedy at Minneapolis.  Unacceptable. Prayers for all the normal and peaceful citizens <3
yes it is tragic that the police officer can run off to his vacation home in florida after murdering someone
The US police force is interesting in the fact that it rarely, if ever, calls out it's own members for illegal acts. They are very tight knit, and close ranks when the situation calls for it.

Half of the cops who partook in Rodney King's beating got 30 months (eventually reversed), the other half got off scot-free. Even after the video footage and one of the worst riots in American history, they STILL defend their actions.
pretty sure the guy from the "I can't breathe" from NYC is still employed by NYPD too.

https://twitter.com/dyllyp/status/1266107862918377472

another yikes
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on May 29, 2020, 07:34:20 pm
Tragic how the public responds to the tragedy at Minneapolis.  Unacceptable. Prayers for all the normal and peaceful citizens <3
the burnings g00chee

the l00tings - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 29, 2020, 07:57:34 pm
Tragic how the public responds to the tragedy at Minneapolis.  Unacceptable. Prayers for all the normal and peaceful citizens <3
yes it is tragic that the police officer can run off to his vacation home in florida after murdering someone

Yes, I'm in no way defending the police officer. I'm just calling out the uncalled for and pathetic actions of all the protestants involved in the vandalism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on May 29, 2020, 08:15:25 pm
Tragic how the public responds to the tragedy at Minneapolis.  Unacceptable. Prayers for all the normal and peaceful citizens <3
yes it is tragic that the police officer can run off to his vacation home in florida after murdering someone

Yes, I'm in no way defending the police officer. I'm just calling out the uncalled for and pathetic actions of all the protestants involved in the vandalism.
Figures that it would be Protestants involved. Where are my fellow minimalist Fraticelli practitioners at?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on May 29, 2020, 08:19:29 pm
I am currently on the way to become a Police Officer in Germany. You have to study for 3 Years to become a Police Officer and you are required to pass multiple Psychological Screenings.

We learnt to take care of People in our custody in our first week, and how fast people can choke.

The Fact that American Cops are trained for 2 MONTHS is absolutely insane. That Cop murdered that Man and I think it is completely legit that the People there are currently rioting.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 29, 2020, 08:25:46 pm
Looting and destroying properties will sure help their case lul @caz
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on May 29, 2020, 08:40:43 pm
Looting and destroying properties will sure help their case lul @caz
Kore how would you try and change a corrupt system?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on May 29, 2020, 09:03:15 pm
Looting and destroying properties will sure help their case lul @caz
Kore how would you try and change a corrupt system?
Well, the problem with their riots is that it essentially serves a self-defeating purpose. The American Justice system absolutely is beyond fucked, but what's happening now isn't going to accomplish anything. Nothing short of marching Capitol Hill in the millions will make Washington change their minds. They directly profit off of this system, so it makes sense that they only offer empty platitudes instead of meaningful legislation. Their anger is justified, now they just need to direct it at the people who actually dictate this shit.

The only way I can see change done in the coming weeks (without doing anything said above), is the National Guard pulling another Kent State, this time with a much higher death toll. The outrage will be nationwide, maybe even global. D.C. will be forced to act due to collapsing public opinion. Barring that, have fun with keeping up on our broken administration.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sanders on May 29, 2020, 10:11:08 pm
Looting and destroying properties will sure help their case lul @caz
Kore how would you try and change a corrupt system?
Simple! I’m abandoning this shit hole of a country and moving to Belgium soon
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on May 29, 2020, 10:13:30 pm
Looting and destroying properties will sure help their case lul @caz
Kore how would you try and change a corrupt system?
Simple! I’m abandoning this shit hole of a country and moving to Belgium soon
Probably the smartest move
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on May 29, 2020, 11:04:38 pm
Looting and destroying properties will sure help their case lul @caz
Kore how would you try and change a corrupt system?
Simple! I’m abandoning this shit hole of a country and moving to Belgium soon
Probably the smartest move
has it really gotten that bad that belgium is better?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 29, 2020, 11:16:22 pm
Looting and destroying properties will sure help their case lul @caz
Kore how would you try and change a corrupt system?
Simple! I’m abandoning this shit hole of a country and moving to Belgium soon

Sanders to become top1 EU?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sanders on May 29, 2020, 11:34:07 pm
Looting and destroying properties will sure help their case lul @caz
Kore how would you try and change a corrupt system?
Simple! I’m abandoning this shit hole of a country and moving to Belgium soon
Probably the smartest move
has it really gotten that bad that belgium is better?
Yes
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Golden. on May 30, 2020, 07:15:59 pm
I am currently on the way to become a Police Officer in Germany. You have to study for 3 Years to become a Police Officer and you are required to pass multiple Psychological Screenings.

We learnt to take care of People in our custody in our first week, and how fast people can choke.

The Fact that American Cops are trained for 2 MONTHS is absolutely insane. That Cop murdered that Man and I think it is completely legit that the People there are currently rioting.
The problem isn't just the training american police officers receives but it's also the GUNS. It's unfair to compare Europe to America in regards to policing because american police officers have to face the fact that any civilian could be carrying a gun on them at any time. The entire police force is built around using the most force and control possible because their living in a country where civilians can carry and own lethal weapons of death wherever they please.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phoen!x on May 30, 2020, 08:04:10 pm
I definitely think that the lack of proper training is a vastly important factor. I understand that the bigger threat when it comes to lethal weapons should be considered when judging exceeding violence from American police but I really dont think that it should play a role in a situation that seems to be as clear-cut as this one. I think that a big part of the violent tendencies can be explained by the lack of training. That in the obvious sense meaning they simply lack the knowledge they need to handle the situations that they are confronted with accordingly, of course, but also it seems to be reasonable to think that this lack of commitment, training and screening is going to increase the number of powerhungry little tyrants in this institution. This seems to be quite simply the case if I compare American police to what we have in Europe. The US really does seem to have a severe problem with racism. The fact that the police officer wasnt charged and what Trump tweeted is also shocking to me and I dont think that European politicians would be able to get away with anything similar. When it comes to the riots, I do think that something of this magnitude is necessary to bring about substantial change. Burning down small private businesses and private vehicles however is utterly disgusting and destroying innocent lives.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 30, 2020, 08:21:58 pm
Violence leads to more violence.  People of colour shouldn't be surprised if what they are doing now in Minneapolis leads to more cases of police brutality and what not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on May 30, 2020, 08:59:20 pm
Violence leads to more violence.  People of colour shouldn't be surprised if what they are doing now in Minneapolis leads to more cases of police brutality and what not.
what are people of colour?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 30, 2020, 09:54:58 pm
I think one of the biggest problems with American police training is the sheer number of different agencies and difference in training between those agencies; the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies are very well trained, some of the best in the world, but since there isn't consistency between the different city, state and county forces, you get incredibly well-trained forces like Tulsa but then you got a manual that says putting pressure on someone's neck for a few minutes is a great idea like Minneapolis
In Ontario (not sure about the other provinces) we have a civilian oversight agency called the SIU which investigates use-of-force incidents like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Investigations_Unit but if I'm not mistaken its either the city prosecutor or the FBI investigating use of force situations? which is questionable
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on May 30, 2020, 10:33:08 pm
Violence leads to more violence.  People of colour shouldn't be surprised if what they are doing now in Minneapolis leads to more cases of police brutality and what not.
what are people of colour?
Pertaining to specifically American demographics, they are anyone who isn't white. It's a controversial term to say the least, and usually isn't used outside of discussions that involve racism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Queeeeen on May 30, 2020, 11:01:06 pm
Violence leads to more violence.  People of colour shouldn't be surprised if what they are doing now in Minneapolis leads to more cases of police brutality and what not.
what are people of colour?
guessing those that produce different concentrations of melanin than him
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on May 30, 2020, 11:03:50 pm
I think one of the biggest problems with American police training is the sheer number of different agencies and difference in training between those agencies; the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies are very well trained, some of the best in the world, but since there isn't consistency between the different city, state and county forces, you get incredibly well-trained forces like Tulsa but then you got a manual that says putting pressure on someone's neck for a few minutes is a great idea like Minneapolis
In Ontario (not sure about the other provinces) we have a civilian oversight agency called the SIU which investigates use-of-force incidents like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Investigations_Unit but if I'm not mistaken its either the city prosecutor or the FBI investigating use of force situations? which is questionable
Isnt Police in America mostly funded by the City it protects itself?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Skaen on May 30, 2020, 11:12:13 pm
Looting and destroying properties will sure help their case lul @caz
Kore how would you try and change a corrupt system?
Simple! I’m abandoning this shit hole of a country and moving to Belgium soon
Well, for insurances and welfare Belgium is a good country. But we got the most difficult political structure you could ever imagine. We have multiple governments and language communities that never get along with each other. Also taxes are high here. 21%. Might go up as well maybe in the future. As for the cops, we have good ones but also some pretty annoying ones. I guess in every country it's like this. But, police brutality is almost nonexistent.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 31, 2020, 01:44:41 am
I think one of the biggest problems with American police training is the sheer number of different agencies and difference in training between those agencies; the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies are very well trained, some of the best in the world, but since there isn't consistency between the different city, state and county forces, you get incredibly well-trained forces like Tulsa but then you got a manual that says putting pressure on someone's neck for a few minutes is a great idea like Minneapolis
In Ontario (not sure about the other provinces) we have a civilian oversight agency called the SIU which investigates use-of-force incidents like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Investigations_Unit but if I'm not mistaken its either the city prosecutor or the FBI investigating use of force situations? which is questionable
Isnt Police in America mostly funded by the City it protects itself?
Well, there’s the city funded city police, transport police, state police (usually for highways and rural areas) and then federal law enforcement agencies
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on May 31, 2020, 01:49:50 am
I think one of the biggest problems with American police training is the sheer number of different agencies and difference in training between those agencies; the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies are very well trained, some of the best in the world, but since there isn't consistency between the different city, state and county forces, you get incredibly well-trained forces like Tulsa but then you got a manual that says putting pressure on someone's neck for a few minutes is a great idea like Minneapolis
In Ontario (not sure about the other provinces) we have a civilian oversight agency called the SIU which investigates use-of-force incidents like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Investigations_Unit but if I'm not mistaken its either the city prosecutor or the FBI investigating use of force situations? which is questionable
Isnt Police in America mostly funded by the City it protects itself?
Well, there’s the city funded city police, transport police, state police (usually for highways and rural areas) and then federal law enforcement agencies
Not gonna lie everytime I hear Details about the American State it just sounds like they never updated any of their Legislatures or Laws since the 18th Century.
Thats just overtly complex and unnecessary isnt it.
In Germany there is State Police and Federal Police. Thats it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Golden. on May 31, 2020, 05:58:38 pm
I think one of the biggest problems with American police training is the sheer number of different agencies and difference in training between those agencies; the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies are very well trained, some of the best in the world, but since there isn't consistency between the different city, state and county forces, you get incredibly well-trained forces like Tulsa but then you got a manual that says putting pressure on someone's neck for a few minutes is a great idea like Minneapolis
In Ontario (not sure about the other provinces) we have a civilian oversight agency called the SIU which investigates use-of-force incidents like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Investigations_Unit but if I'm not mistaken its either the city prosecutor or the FBI investigating use of force situations? which is questionable

You are right, the agencies is kind of ridiculous I did a report on the different departments and agencies in american politics once back when I studied politics, ended up with pages upon pages of different agencies for law enforcement and its subsidiaries. It's mainly caused by the states which is unique to the US compared to Europe in that each state is it's own governing body and has its own departments and agencies that stem from it, 50 states = a lot of fucking agencies. + Federal level. Then you have cities, military and paramilitary departments. Presidential only bodies such as the secret service, it just keeps going. The secret service alone is a small army...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 31, 2020, 09:25:34 pm
I think one of the biggest problems with American police training is the sheer number of different agencies and difference in training between those agencies; the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies are very well trained, some of the best in the world, but since there isn't consistency between the different city, state and county forces, you get incredibly well-trained forces like Tulsa but then you got a manual that says putting pressure on someone's neck for a few minutes is a great idea like Minneapolis
In Ontario (not sure about the other provinces) we have a civilian oversight agency called the SIU which investigates use-of-force incidents like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Investigations_Unit but if I'm not mistaken its either the city prosecutor or the FBI investigating use of force situations? which is questionable
You are right, the agencies is kind of ridiculous I did a report on the different departments and agencies in american politics once back when I studied politics, ended up with pages upon pages of different agencies for law enforcement and its subsidiaries. It's mainly caused by the states which is unique to the US compared to Europe in that each state is it's own governing body and has its own departments and agencies that stem from it, 50 states = a lot of fucking agencies. + Federal level. Then you have cities, military and paramilitary departments. Presidential only bodies such as the secret service, it just keeps going. The secret service alone is a small army...
yeh, altho it's not necessarily a bad thing to have a layered police structure. the rcmp in Canada is both a federal and in most provinces provincial police force, and they also function as part of the foreign intelligence service. which is kinda strange
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Golden. on May 31, 2020, 10:19:21 pm
are you trying to quote me or ?  ;D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 31, 2020, 10:51:44 pm
yeh oops
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on May 31, 2020, 11:32:31 pm
Anonymous possibly exposing the fuck outta Trump. Would suck if this was true cause then we'd have to deal with Biden as president potentially.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on May 31, 2020, 11:46:13 pm
Anonymous possibly exposing the fuck outta Trump. Would suck if this was true cause then we'd have to deal with Biden as president potentially.
That demented old fuck would at least have a cabinet that would help keep a decent public image. Trump is too egotistical to allow anyone to steal the spotlight, even if it is detrimental to his reelection chances.

I don't known if we should belive Anonymous, but it's obvious that the GOP won't crack under any pressure. This is the last stand of the Reaganites.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Golden. on June 01, 2020, 04:43:07 pm
American presidential candidates always full of old senile men tough choices wherever you look.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on June 01, 2020, 06:23:26 pm
American presidential candidates always full of old senile men tough choices wherever you look.

Was gonna vote Yang if he got the nomination but oh well.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on June 01, 2020, 08:04:58 pm
This is the lamest attempt at praxis I've seen in awhile tbh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on June 02, 2020, 01:16:04 am
https://www.insider.com/george-floyd-non-responsive-before-officer-took-knee-off-neck-2020-5
watch the video, floyd was fucked off his mind on drugs and had a heart attack
https://youtu.be/EUhatOhtnPI
career criminal and drug addict, the world is better off without him
(https://i.imgur.com/WV5rkjS.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on June 02, 2020, 01:23:28 am
https://www.insider.com/george-floyd-non-responsive-before-officer-took-knee-off-neck-2020-5
watch the video, floyd was fucked off his mind on drugs and had a heart attack
https://youtu.be/EUhatOhtnPI
career criminal and drug addict, the world is better off without him
(https://i.imgur.com/WV5rkjS.png)
This Video shows nothing relevant. like at all.

Dont you ever think theres a time to stop being edgy?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on June 02, 2020, 01:53:52 am
there is never time to stop being edgy
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on June 02, 2020, 02:03:14 am
This Video shows nothing relevant. like at all.

Dont you ever think theres a time to stop being edgy?
Thats why the article is there for context

and yes you can clearly see he's on drugs. Either way I have no dog in this race, Floyd's death is no longer a factor in the game we play. We've seen our future this past weekend, America is the next Rhodesia/South Africa and Trump will lead us straight to it with boomer republicanism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on June 02, 2020, 02:19:33 am
This has been going on long before Trump, at least since Nixon. American Conservatism is poison.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sanders on June 02, 2020, 02:20:12 am
Trump got the military going in
I got my 1 way ticket to Brussels ready to go
Fuck you America
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on June 02, 2020, 08:17:30 pm
What is with these solidarity marches in New Zealand and Ireland? Aren't mass gatherings banned?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on June 02, 2020, 08:27:47 pm
Media last week: If you don't stay at home, you are an awful human being. You are killing people by doing so.

Media today: Trump is a dictator for sending in the National Guard after governors and mayors failed to protect their cities from rioting and looting.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on June 02, 2020, 08:38:05 pm
Media last week: If you don't stay at home, you are an awful human being. You are killing people by doing so.

Media today: Trump is a dictator for sending in the National Guard after governors and mayors failed to protect their cities from rioting and looting.
There are people who preached social distancing and mask wearing two weeks ago that are now ustifying mass gatherings in order to protest police brutality. They follow whatever the narrative is.

This was in Europe just yesterday (I think Dublin?)

Spoiler
(https://goss.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/march-blm.jpeg)
[close]

Of course, I can't exactly blame the Gardai for not doing anything to break it up. They would probably be called racist and accused of being complacent in the grand takeover of "White Supremacy".

Europeans, for whatever reason, are so enamored with American politics that they prioritize meaningless acts of camaraderie over their own citizen's health. We are doomed.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Golden. on June 02, 2020, 09:03:50 pm
That's a little far to say we are  "enamored with American politics". I'm pretty sure there was only 1-2 protests in London of maybe a few hundred people and they were shut down quickly and many arrested for breaking the social distancing laws, and from British media reaction it looked like most people disliked them for breaking the social distancing.

But are you surprised people are out protesting when it's being blasted over the news 24/7, or do you think police brutality and racism only exists in America ?

George Floyd death happened in America doesn't make racism and police brutality an "american" issue.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on June 02, 2020, 09:42:17 pm
What I mean is that the stupidest thing to come out of this is that most Americans aren't seeing a damn issue with the riots and any collateral damage since they are based off of Floyd's death. Right before this happened you would been lambasted for having the nerve to walk around without a mask. That's all gone now. Even if the deaths spike, it will be ignored.

I'm confused because this is blatant bandwagoning. None of this is likely going to matter in a few months once we find something else to get outraged over. It's just like the poor Palestinians: one of them gets brutalized by the IDF, protests kick off on the Strip, few other countries join in, and then everyone forgets within a month. The media is partly responsible, but it also our own fault that we forget about news that isn't deemed to be trendy.

Police brutality isn't strictly an American issue obviously, but we absolutely are the worst when it comes to it (in terms of the first world). It's not even close. 950 on average are killed a year. 97% of the police responsible are let go without being reprimanded. There is literally no comparison. We send outdated military equipment to trigger-happy, poorly trained maniacs who uphold a deeply racist institution that has no hope of reformation without accountability. You know how other countries would consider their police incidents to be mostly isolated and not representative of the whole force? The complete opposite is believed here. Unless you dig your head into the sand and go blah blah blah all day, it becomes clear that US cops are on a power trip with minimal restraint being exercised.

We even have a website dedicated to it since it's so bad: https://mappingpoliceviolence.org

I'd go as far as to say that the problem is based in just how low the standards are for joining. They are ill-trained and with no consideration for others. This whole "notallcops" bullshit just distracts from the actual issue being faced.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Aurum on June 02, 2020, 09:45:37 pm
I have to say though that as a trump supporter (now ex) I am highly disappointed with trumps leadership (or rather lack of) and decision making. With corona and now the riots. If this continues, I think there is a decent chance of there being a full-scale uprising/real martial law/civil war? (lol). I think that we're never going to fully recover from this. Also I hope this triggers some event that fully dismantles the worthless Republicans and democrats. The fact that I have to choose between a retarded neocon shill and a pedophile with dementia is absurd
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on June 02, 2020, 10:23:21 pm
Girls are posting black screens on social media - sums up european response
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Golden. on June 02, 2020, 10:31:22 pm
Girls are posting black screens on social media - sums up european response
Probably the most annoying part of it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sanders on June 02, 2020, 10:55:11 pm
Ireland looking real nice right now
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 03, 2020, 02:58:26 am
Ireland looking real nice right now
Very low tax rate for companies, but if you’re looking for the last vestiges of in-Christian religious warfare it’s your island
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on June 03, 2020, 04:50:21 am
Girls are posting black screens on social media - sums up european response
Probably the most annoying part of it
I dont blame euro's all women are sheep. Thinking they're going against the system when all of their friends and the media are constantly telling them what to do
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on June 03, 2020, 08:16:28 am
Honestly BLM should be declared a terrorist organisation at this point.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on June 03, 2020, 05:46:11 pm
Honestly BLM should be declared a terrorist organisation at this point.

thank you sean hannity
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: The Marksman on June 03, 2020, 08:12:38 pm
I dont mind the slogan Black Lives Matter, or even these riots and lootings, its annoying to see but its not what makes me the most mad about this whole thing. The worst thing about this whole movement is that its based on an entirely misguided narrative. That cop should be punished for what he did and people do have a right to be mad about it. But the bottom line is that racist cops arent the underlining problem with the Black community today. If you put every racist cop behind bars right now the black community would be only microscopically better off tomorrow than it was today. The big problems; violent crime, poverty, single parenthood, education; would not have changed. The worst part is when people think this is some turning point akin to the civil rights movement in the 60's. You have to take some of the aforementioned problems head on if you want change, which is exactly what this movement is not doing. Theyre taking the legitimate problems of the black community and saying "this is all the fault of police." Reform the police force all you want but these protests arent going to change anything which is sad to see.

Trump got the military going in
I got my 1 way ticket to Brussels ready to go
Fuck you America
Sanders America is one of the least racist countries on the planet. One moment of racial tension doesnt define the whole damn country. Move to Belgium if you want, youll find its not some post racial paradise like youre expecting.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on June 03, 2020, 09:00:49 pm
People take for granted how diverse America really is lol. All things considered we easily are one of the most inclusive countries in the world. There are some really backwards places still out there even in first world countries.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on June 04, 2020, 01:04:22 am
Honestly BLM should be declared a terrorist organisation at this point.

thank you sean hannity
Still hasn't voluntarily been waterboarded like he said he would!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on June 04, 2020, 08:13:42 am
Honestly BLM should be declared a terrorist organisation at this point.

bro what
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: fieldshire on June 19, 2020, 01:20:07 am
Girls are posting black screens on social media - sums up european response
Probably the most annoying part of it
I dont blame euro's all women are sheep. Thinking they're going against the system when all of their friends and the media are constantly telling them what to do
Then they post black screens, stating that these black screens aren't enough to fight injustice and that we should be doing more. We should all be doing more.  ::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: pieter on June 22, 2020, 03:50:41 pm
https://youtu.be/iUhdc1GAddk

Honestly this is a very good perspective on how things should be handled, instead of screaming defund the police and creating a mad max world
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Eamon on June 22, 2020, 05:39:15 pm
Ireland looking real nice right now
Very low tax rate for companies, but if you’re looking for the last vestiges of in-Christian religious warfare it’s your island

Bring a jacket, google translate, and a few thousand miles of fibre cabling
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on June 22, 2020, 07:07:44 pm
https://youtu.be/iUhdc1GAddk

Honestly this is a very good perspective on how things should be handled, instead of screaming defund the police and creating a mad max world

You can't fix the American police system without addressing the inherent flaws it was built on. It's completely broken and riddled with corrupt unions whose sole interest is making green.

Defunding the police in the sense that their military-grade weaponry be recalled isn't a bad idea. However, the way it is phrased is absolutely awful, and will only serve as a conservative talking point that anarchy is what the people want.

It's too bad our police prefer filling out the paperwork on why they felt the need to open fire on unarmed individuals rather than deescalate the situation. If nurses can deal with violent drunks every Saturday night, then what excuse do the police exactly have when it comes to being supposedly threatened by "suspicious" individuals?

It all comes down to a toxic combination of American culture and poor training regimes. Resist the evil government they say, but praise the lunatics who enforce the laws they write, and remember to thank the troops who somehow protected your freedom by killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians! You can't make this shit up.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 03, 2020, 11:14:44 pm
I don't know how to feel about this election really. Either way America may very well be screwed.

The mass opposition against Trump can largely be attributed to the more "classically" conservative and milquetoast liberal demographics being upset at the sudden gaping wound that he has caused in regards to formality and presentation. If Biden is victorious most of them will retreat to their gated communities and block out the calls for political change in favor for anxiety-free brunch.

There will be another Trump, of this I have no doubt. The only difference being that he/she will be far more cerebral and competent in comparison to the petulant man-child the Republicans have seen fit to designate as their lightning rod. Biden is a dull old man that the DNC and the progressive wing will try and drag through the dirt in an attempt for form some semblance of a functioning government. All the that it will result in is the same conditions that enabled Trump to become relevant in the first place: a disgruntled working class, dissatisfaction towards the general economic and societal direction, and the need to shakeup the status quo through whatever means necessary. Once more, they will be fooled by dog-whistling populism and misguided notions of American Exceptionalism. Our lives simply aren't uncomfortable enough for any sort of mass change on a systematic level.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 04, 2020, 04:36:35 am
my late prediction
let's see how it fares
it's really gonna come down to Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and PA
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/27975c511c4aa8613c4e8668f4913f29.png)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~Midnight~ on November 04, 2020, 05:57:04 am
my late prediction
let's see how it fares
it's really gonna come down to Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and PA
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/27975c511c4aa8613c4e8668f4913f29.png)
[close]


Pretty accurate to what I predicted after seeing the map earlier in the night
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 04, 2020, 06:07:12 am
Btw if the only state I miss on is NC it’s 269-269 so that’s something
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on November 04, 2020, 08:24:14 am
Let’s go Trump!!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on November 04, 2020, 08:36:17 am
Trump declaring victory before the states are called doesn't end the election
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kraz on November 04, 2020, 08:37:32 am
Let’s go Trump!!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 04, 2020, 08:43:21 am
Came into this expecting a Biden blowout. This is like watching the Super Bowl. This is exciting and fun to watch lol. I still think Biden ends up crawling to victory with the late votes here but hoping Trump pulls this one out somehow.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on November 04, 2020, 08:45:42 am
which lizard person did you guys vote for
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Nock on November 04, 2020, 09:57:49 am
which lizard person did you guys vote for
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on November 04, 2020, 11:42:54 am
which lizard person did you guys vote for
kanye west
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Janne on November 04, 2020, 11:53:38 am
leaked results

Spoiler
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/425365455859875842/773488623055667210/received_2822474067977504.jpeg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Thunderstormer on November 04, 2020, 04:20:07 pm
it all comes down to the mailed/absentee votes that haven't been processed/counted yet.  It is going to be close, but at this time, i think biden has the advantage.  Either way, the candidates are only going to win these states by a small margin.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Eamon on November 04, 2020, 04:53:18 pm
Trump doesnt look like he will win Michigan, and the votes from the cities appear to be swinging it as the rural areas from what i was looking at, have already voted so i do not see where the votes for Trump to come back would come from. Same as Nevada with Reno and Las Vegas.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on November 04, 2020, 05:11:30 pm
fraud  :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Windflower on November 04, 2020, 05:14:05 pm
Trump doesnt look like he will win Michigan, and the votes from the cities appear to be swinging it as the rural areas from what i was looking at, have already voted so i do not see where the votes for Trump to come back would come from. Same as Nevada with Reno and Las Vegas.
Trump could win Nevada on mail ins tho possibly then it'd be over, even if Trump loses Michigan
looks like he could win PA, GA, and NC atm

imagine Trump losing on that 1 electoral vote in Nebraska tho lmao
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Eamon on November 04, 2020, 05:31:29 pm
Trump doesnt look like he will win Michigan, and the votes from the cities appear to be swinging it as the rural areas from what i was looking at, have already voted so i do not see where the votes for Trump to come back would come from. Same as Nevada with Reno and Las Vegas.
Trump could win Nevada on mail ins tho possibly then it'd be over, even if Trump loses Michigan
looks like he could win PA, GA, and NC atm

imagine Trump losing on that 1 electoral vote in Nebraska tho lmao

Yeah and i put money on Trump myself  :P but i am told that mail ins are typically democrats and when looking at the percentage left to count in Nevada it seems to be the areas i mentioned above that are mostly left and i assume that means mail ins also.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on November 04, 2020, 05:38:49 pm
fraud  :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~Midnight~ on November 04, 2020, 05:56:27 pm
I went to bed expecting to wake up to a Trump blowout wtf guys
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 04, 2020, 06:01:16 pm
I woulda made bank if I was in Europe. Biden +440 were the greatest odds of all time.

Biden is taking the W here. It was a fun ride while it lasted. Time for a boring presidency. Trump is gonna milk the shit outta this voting fraud crap for the next month at least.

I went to bed expecting to wake up to a Trump blowout wtf guys

Everything pointed the opposite direction. But Trump kept it close the entire time. Mail in ballots winning this one for Biden.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on November 04, 2020, 06:15:52 pm
(((MAIL IN BALLOTS)))
;)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: RussianFury on November 04, 2020, 06:20:17 pm
This election cycle came very close to being a 269 to 269 tie. That would've been fun to gone through.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 04, 2020, 06:25:40 pm
This election cycle came very close to being a 269 to 269 tie. That would've been fun to gone through.
Biden winning that 1 vote in Nebraska turns out to be a game changer
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~Midnight~ on November 04, 2020, 06:27:11 pm
This election cycle came very close to being a 269 to 269 tie. That would've been fun to gone through.
Biden winning that 1 vote in Nebraska turns out to be a game changer

I still think Trump is gonna pull through. Idk just my gut feeling
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 04, 2020, 06:32:02 pm
This election cycle came very close to being a 269 to 269 tie. That would've been fun to gone through.
Biden winning that 1 vote in Nebraska turns out to be a game changer

I still think Trump is gonna pull through. Idk just my gut feeling

Trump gonna lose Wisconsin and Michigan and that’ll mean Biden wins. I would much rather be Biden than Trump right now. You can also tell Trump is panicking just look at his tweets. He knows he’s going down.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: RussianFury on November 04, 2020, 06:36:24 pm
I don't want to be hasty when I say this, but it seems like this will be the last time the republicans can securely win states like Texas and Georgia. Therefore, meaning the road for a republican president will be harder and harder each election cycle with all the new demographics in those areas. Of course if those areas continue to go out and vote. But knowing America this will only lead to 2 years later people going out and voting republican in house and senate just to split the American government presidency and congress.

Trump definitely left a mark on the Supreme Court for the future.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Glenn on November 04, 2020, 06:41:39 pm
what an election

Spoiler
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/El_TfpKWMAIwdI9?format=jpg&name=medium)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 04, 2020, 07:34:50 pm
Trump is winning Pennsylvania by 500,000 with just 64% reporting in. If the projections aren't as worthless as they appear then maybe Biden wins there.

NE-2 is literally a game changer which I don't think anyone quite expected. It's just 1 electoral vote but in a race as tight as this you need all that you can get your hands on.

Trump's recounts in the Great Lakes states will probably decide the final outcome.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on November 04, 2020, 07:42:05 pm
Trump train got derailed. I doubt a recount changes much

It’s gonna be a lot harder for Republicans to win in the future unless they move more to the left imo
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Eamon on November 04, 2020, 07:59:26 pm
is it safe to bet on Biden now?  ???
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Thunderstormer on November 04, 2020, 08:03:43 pm
Same day voting is heavily republican and mail/absentee is heavy democratic.  That is why you hear people referring to the blue and red mirages.  Some states are slow or dont count the latter until during or after election day while other states are ahead of it and have it already done by the time the polls close.  It is up to each state and county to work it out based on the laws.  This is why you saw trump far ahead in some states, and biden far ahead in others, but as both votes are finally combined, it is a lot closer. 

Generally speaking, the US likes keeping whoever the incumbent is.  Unless it is a large wave year, incumbents are safe.  In my lifetime, every president has been elected to 2 terms.(tbd this election)  Similar for senators in my state.(only 3 total, 1 of which retired)


Referring to the posts above about Tx and GA.  republicans have won the popular vote nation wide once since 2000. The electoral college has saved them here.    States that have a lot of hispanic votes could be what decides future races in the southern states.  On the flip side, democrats have to keep an eye on the rust belt.  It has imo been leaning more and more republican.  I know my state went from a purple to a lean red.  Who knows where we will be in 10 years, with all the demographics shifts.


I doubt a recount shifts a vote total much.  You would need a lot of ballots to be tossed out to make a difference.  Of course any court decisions could add or remove some.  20K is a lot to make up though. 


I think both parties need to move back to the center, if they want to have a chance at flipping any states or seats.  The more polarized it gets, the fewer states that matter. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on November 04, 2020, 08:09:35 pm
fraud  :)
(https://i.imgflip.com/4h8d1x.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 04, 2020, 08:20:43 pm
All the democrats from NY, NJ, and California moving to states like Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida has impacted and will further impact elections in the future. Republicans won’t win unless they have a polarizing figure like Trump or a young charismatic candidate that is moderate and not very conservative.

I personally think the party system is trash and we need to do something about it. These two candidates are garbage and the other parties could’ve had a huge opportunity here to win votes (Almost like Gary Johnson in 2016). The media doesn’t give any other parties attention and I feel like third party candidates do a shit job of marketing and using the internet to influence votes.

Now we are stuck with Joe Biden for a couple years and then a Marxist in Kamala Harris for the rest of the term.

Yang 2024
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 04, 2020, 08:39:20 pm
Trump train got derailed. I doubt a recount changes much

It’s gonna be a lot harder for Republicans to win in the future unless they move more to the left imo

I think derail is too harsh of a term. Trump is on track to be the second most voted candidate in history. Nearly 70 million votes are for him. The Republicans don't need to move left, they just need someone who has the ideology of Trump that isn't a complete ignoramus. Come 2024 expect someone far more cunning, that is if we don't implode by then.


Also watch Arizona again, it's reverting back to a tossup
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on November 04, 2020, 08:58:36 pm
All the democrats from NY, NJ, and California moving to states like Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida has impacted and will further impact elections in the future. Republicans won’t win unless they have a polarizing figure like Trump or a young charismatic candidate that is moderate and not very conservative.

I personally think the party system is trash and we need to do something about it. These two candidates are garbage and the other parties could’ve had a huge opportunity here to win votes (Almost like Gary Johnson in 2016). The media doesn’t give any other parties attention and I feel like third party candidates do a shit job of marketing and using the internet to influence votes.

Now we are stuck with Joe Biden for a couple years and then a Marxist in Kamala Harris for the rest of the term.

Yang 2024
yeah Gary Johnson the pothead with his brain fried is a great example of third party candidates
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 04, 2020, 09:06:42 pm
All the democrats from NY, NJ, and California moving to states like Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida has impacted and will further impact elections in the future. Republicans won’t win unless they have a polarizing figure like Trump or a young charismatic candidate that is moderate and not very conservative.

I personally think the party system is trash and we need to do something about it. These two candidates are garbage and the other parties could’ve had a huge opportunity here to win votes (Almost like Gary Johnson in 2016). The media doesn’t give any other parties attention and I feel like third party candidates do a shit job of marketing and using the internet to influence votes.

Now we are stuck with Joe Biden for a couple years and then a Marxist in Kamala Harris for the rest of the term.

Yang 2024
yeah Gary Johnson the pothead with his brain fried is a great example of third party candidates
I'm just stating that he actually got a decent chunk of votes. I believe a third party candidate has the ability to actually compete for votes especially if they run a good campaign. There was no better time than now for someone to step up outside of the Republican or Democratic parties, and nobody took advantage. All it takes nowadays is an internet movement. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 04, 2020, 09:17:02 pm
All the democrats from NY, NJ, and California moving to states like Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida has impacted and will further impact elections in the future. Republicans won’t win unless they have a polarizing figure like Trump or a young charismatic candidate that is moderate and not very conservative.

I personally think the party system is trash and we need to do something about it. These two candidates are garbage and the other parties could’ve had a huge opportunity here to win votes (Almost like Gary Johnson in 2016). The media doesn’t give any other parties attention and I feel like third party candidates do a shit job of marketing and using the internet to influence votes.

Now we are stuck with Joe Biden for a couple years and then a Marxist in Kamala Harris for the rest of the term.

Yang 2024
yeah Gary Johnson the pothead with his brain fried is a great example of third party candidates
I'm just stating that he actually got a decent chunk of votes. I believe a third party candidate has the ability to actually compete for votes especially if they run a good campaign. There was no better time than now for someone to step up outside of the Republican or Democratic parties, and nobody took advantage. All it takes nowadays is an internet movement.


If a third party candidate ever gets big in this current climate, it will simply be a repeat of Ross Perot. The political tribalism runs too deep for any other party to make wiggle room. All you can hope for is that demographics shift just enough for the DNC and GOP to actually listen
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on November 04, 2020, 10:07:24 pm
See, Trump has ruined the Republican Party. Now majority of the youth and the country in general thinks Republicans are just a bunch of racist rednecks. When that really isn't the case. So Democrats are going to dominate for the foreseeable future, as most of these die hard trump supporters are going to literally die off. The Republican Party needs a candidate like Marco Rubio. Someone to try and be more moderate and reconnect with more youthful voters that lean towards the middle.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on November 04, 2020, 10:08:11 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96-BQaIVOpc
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on November 04, 2020, 10:24:55 pm
america isnt racist
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 04, 2020, 10:29:13 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96-BQaIVOpc

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/nov/04/tweets/no-biden-did-not-receive-thousands-mysteriously-su/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on November 04, 2020, 10:41:58 pm
this thread is the gift that keeps on giving
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 04, 2020, 10:48:58 pm
Trump likely taking PA, NC, GA and Alaska means that unless Arizona and Utah both go to Biden, the race basically hinges on the recounts
regardless, one of the most interesting elections ever in terms of electoral college. i was really hoping for 269-269 just to make things spicy
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on November 04, 2020, 11:25:18 pm
See, Trump has ruined the Republican Party. Now majority of the youth and the country in general thinks Republicans are just a bunch of racist rednecks. When that really isn't the case. So Democrats are going to dominate for the foreseeable future, as most of these die hard trump supporters are going to literally die off. The Republican Party needs a candidate like Marco Rubio. Someone to try and be more moderate and reconnect with more youthful voters that lean towards the middle.
this has been the lefts view of the right for decades. I know you're probably too young to know that but this is a brainlet take. a right winger trying to use a moderate candidate just moves the party farther to the left which is kind of their strategy. that's how you get someone like Mitt Romney who is incredibly out of touch with blue collar right wingers

playing on their terms is still playing their game :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on November 05, 2020, 12:04:32 am
See, Trump has ruined the Republican Party. Now majority of the youth and the country in general thinks Republicans are just a bunch of racist rednecks. When that really isn't the case. So Democrats are going to dominate for the foreseeable future, as most of these die hard trump supporters are going to literally die off. The Republican Party needs a candidate like Marco Rubio. Someone to try and be more moderate and reconnect with more youthful voters that lean towards the middle.
this has been the lefts view of the right for decades. I know you're probably too young to know that but this is a brainlet take. a right winger trying to use a moderate candidate just moves the party farther to the left which is kind of their strategy. that's how you get someone like Mitt Romney who is incredibly out of touch with blue collar right wingers

playing on their terms is still playing their game :)

Joe Biden was easily the most moderate centrist pick the Democrats could've gone with and it looked early like Bernie Sanders would be the nominee. The Democrats are being moved further to the right to appease independents because this is an election to beat Trump not to "play any games". ABC news also said that 7% of Mail in ballots were not delivered by the USPS. People being suspicious of "sudden mail in ballot dumps" are not realizing this was supposed to happen and they said this would happen for weeks. The opposite happened in Florida and Texas where Biden was up big early with mail in ballots but as election day votes came in the states swung back to trump. The midwestern states simply did the opposite and counted mail in ballots after election day ones.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 05, 2020, 12:07:06 am
one term presidencies would be good new normal!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on November 05, 2020, 12:14:33 am
See, Trump has ruined the Republican Party. Now majority of the youth and the country in general thinks Republicans are just a bunch of racist rednecks. When that really isn't the case. So Democrats are going to dominate for the foreseeable future, as most of these die hard trump supporters are going to literally die off. The Republican Party needs a candidate like Marco Rubio. Someone to try and be more moderate and reconnect with more youthful voters that lean towards the middle.
this has been the lefts view of the right for decades. I know you're probably too young to know that but this is a brainlet take. a right winger trying to use a moderate candidate just moves the party farther to the left which is kind of their strategy. that's how you get someone like Mitt Romney who is incredibly out of touch with blue collar right wingers

playing on their terms is still playing their game :)

1- I am older then you.
2- I am a Republican and have been since I was a junior in high school.
3- It isn't playing their game. Both parties need to be more centered. You have to be able to see both sides. And leaning far-right or far-left is wrong in a modern world. Both parties need moderate candidates. Because majority of the country is full of moderate people in reality. Which is why Trump lost. Because he pushed away to many of the moderate center leaning Republicans. Also Trump isn't even a true Republican. He has been flip flopping parties his whole life.
4- Mitt Romney would of been a great Republican leader.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 05, 2020, 12:18:02 am
To summarize, Americans simply want to grill.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ShintoSkookum on November 05, 2020, 12:21:21 am
See, Trump has ruined the Republican Party. Now majority of the youth and the country in general thinks Republicans are just a bunch of racist rednecks. When that really isn't the case. So Democrats are going to dominate for the foreseeable future, as most of these die hard trump supporters are going to literally die off. The Republican Party needs a candidate like Marco Rubio. Someone to try and be more moderate and reconnect with more youthful voters that lean towards the middle.
this has been the lefts view of the right for decades. I know you're probably too young to know that but this is a brainlet take. a right winger trying to use a moderate candidate just moves the party farther to the left which is kind of their strategy. that's how you get someone like Mitt Romney who is incredibly out of touch with blue collar right wingers

playing on their terms is still playing their game :)

1- I am older then you.
2- I am a Republican and have been since I was a junior in high school.
3- It isn't playing their game. Both parties need to be more centered. You have to be able to see both sides. And leaning far-right or far-left is wrong in a modern world. Both parties need moderate candidates. Because majority of the country is full of moderate people in reality. Which is why Trump lost. Because he pushed away to many of the moderate center leaning Republicans. Also Trump isn't even a true Republican. He has been flip flopping parties his whole life. Also, Mitt Romney would of been a great Republican leader.
1. Okay first of all I’m way better at games than you. 2. I have a girlfriend right now and she’s really sexy and said you’re ugly. 3. I’m waaaaay better at memes than you.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on November 05, 2020, 12:25:48 am
See, Trump has ruined the Republican Party. Now majority of the youth and the country in general thinks Republicans are just a bunch of racist rednecks. When that really isn't the case. So Democrats are going to dominate for the foreseeable future, as most of these die hard trump supporters are going to literally die off. The Republican Party needs a candidate like Marco Rubio. Someone to try and be more moderate and reconnect with more youthful voters that lean towards the middle.
this has been the lefts view of the right for decades. I know you're probably too young to know that but this is a brainlet take. a right winger trying to use a moderate candidate just moves the party farther to the left which is kind of their strategy. that's how you get someone like Mitt Romney who is incredibly out of touch with blue collar right wingers

playing on their terms is still playing their game :)

1- I am older then you.
2- I am a Republican and have been since I was a junior in high school.
3- It isn't playing their game. Both parties need to be more centered. You have to be able to see both sides. And leaning far-right or far-left is wrong in a modern world. Both parties need moderate candidates. Because majority of the country is full of moderate people in reality. Which is why Trump lost. Because he pushed away to many of the moderate center leaning Republicans. Also Trump isn't even a true Republican. He has been flip flopping parties his whole life. Also, Mitt Romney would of been a great Republican leader.
1. Okay first of all I’m way better at games than you. 2. I have a girlfriend right now and she’s really sexy and said you’re ugly. 3. I’m waaaaay better at memes than you.

You cant steal my insult about people being ugly. That has been my go to for years. Also Vette LOVES my massive Cathar cock.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MikeyBruh on November 05, 2020, 12:39:40 am
https://youtu.be/l4Gni803ArQ
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on November 05, 2020, 12:39:54 am
blue collar right wingers
racists*
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 05, 2020, 01:22:13 am
To summarize, Americans simply want to grill.
oh not just americans
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on November 05, 2020, 01:33:36 am
See, Trump has ruined the Republican Party. Now majority of the youth and the country in general thinks Republicans are just a bunch of racist rednecks. When that really isn't the case. So Democrats are going to dominate for the foreseeable future, as most of these die hard trump supporters are going to literally die off. The Republican Party needs a candidate like Marco Rubio. Someone to try and be more moderate and reconnect with more youthful voters that lean towards the middle.
this has been the lefts view of the right for decades. I know you're probably too young to know that but this is a brainlet take. a right winger trying to use a moderate candidate just moves the party farther to the left which is kind of their strategy. that's how you get someone like Mitt Romney who is incredibly out of touch with blue collar right wingers

playing on their terms is still playing their game :)

1- I am older then you.
2- I am a Republican and have been since I was a junior in high school.
3- It isn't playing their game. Both parties need to be more centered. You have to be able to see both sides. And leaning far-right or far-left is wrong in a modern world. Both parties need moderate candidates. Because majority of the country is full of moderate people in reality. Which is why Trump lost. Because he pushed away to many of the moderate center leaning Republicans. Also Trump isn't even a true Republican. He has been flip flopping parties his whole life.
4- Mitt Romney would of been a great Republican leader.
You really expect Democrats and Republicans to ever work together again??
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on November 05, 2020, 02:19:07 am
See, Trump has ruined the Republican Party. Now majority of the youth and the country in general thinks Republicans are just a bunch of racist rednecks. When that really isn't the case. So Democrats are going to dominate for the foreseeable future, as most of these die hard trump supporters are going to literally die off. The Republican Party needs a candidate like Marco Rubio. Someone to try and be more moderate and reconnect with more youthful voters that lean towards the middle.
this has been the lefts view of the right for decades. I know you're probably too young to know that but this is a brainlet take. a right winger trying to use a moderate candidate just moves the party farther to the left which is kind of their strategy. that's how you get someone like Mitt Romney who is incredibly out of touch with blue collar right wingers

playing on their terms is still playing their game :)

Joe Biden was easily the most moderate centrist pick the Democrats could've gone with and it looked early like Bernie Sanders would be the nominee. The Democrats are being moved further to the right to appease independents because this is an election to beat Trump not to "play any games". ABC news also said that 7% of Mail in ballots were not delivered by the USPS. People being suspicious of "sudden mail in ballot dumps" are not realizing this was supposed to happen and they said this would happen for weeks. The opposite happened in Florida and Texas where Biden was up big early with mail in ballots but as election day votes came in the states swung back to trump. The midwestern states simply did the opposite and counted mail in ballots after election day ones.
Bruh he chose Kamela Harris as his running mate
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on November 05, 2020, 02:28:29 am
See, Trump has ruined the Republican Party. Now majority of the youth and the country in general thinks Republicans are just a bunch of racist rednecks. When that really isn't the case. So Democrats are going to dominate for the foreseeable future, as most of these die hard trump supporters are going to literally die off. The Republican Party needs a candidate like Marco Rubio. Someone to try and be more moderate and reconnect with more youthful voters that lean towards the middle.
this has been the lefts view of the right for decades. I know you're probably too young to know that but this is a brainlet take. a right winger trying to use a moderate candidate just moves the party farther to the left which is kind of their strategy. that's how you get someone like Mitt Romney who is incredibly out of touch with blue collar right wingers

playing on their terms is still playing their game :)

Joe Biden was easily the most moderate centrist pick the Democrats could've gone with and it looked early like Bernie Sanders would be the nominee. The Democrats are being moved further to the right to appease independents because this is an election to beat Trump not to "play any games". ABC news also said that 7% of Mail in ballots were not delivered by the USPS. People being suspicious of "sudden mail in ballot dumps" are not realizing this was supposed to happen and they said this would happen for weeks. The opposite happened in Florida and Texas where Biden was up big early with mail in ballots but as election day votes came in the states swung back to trump. The midwestern states simply did the opposite and counted mail in ballots after election day ones.
Bruh he chose Kamela Harris as his running mate
He had to get the more left leaning dems somehow
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 05, 2020, 02:54:27 am
Kamala Harris is one of the reasons I didn’t vote for Biden.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on November 05, 2020, 03:16:43 am
See, Trump has ruined the Republican Party. Now majority of the youth and the country in general thinks Republicans are just a bunch of racist rednecks. When that really isn't the case. So Democrats are going to dominate for the foreseeable future, as most of these die hard trump supporters are going to literally die off. The Republican Party needs a candidate like Marco Rubio. Someone to try and be more moderate and reconnect with more youthful voters that lean towards the middle.
this has been the lefts view of the right for decades. I know you're probably too young to know that but this is a brainlet take. a right winger trying to use a moderate candidate just moves the party farther to the left which is kind of their strategy. that's how you get someone like Mitt Romney who is incredibly out of touch with blue collar right wingers

playing on their terms is still playing their game :)

1- I am older then you.
2- I am a Republican and have been since I was a junior in high school.
3- It isn't playing their game. Both parties need to be more centered. You have to be able to see both sides. And leaning far-right or far-left is wrong in a modern world. Both parties need moderate candidates. Because majority of the country is full of moderate people in reality. Which is why Trump lost. Because he pushed away to many of the moderate center leaning Republicans. Also Trump isn't even a true Republican. He has been flip flopping parties his whole life.
4- Mitt Romney would of been a great Republican leader.
this post smells of Israel First neocon
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 05, 2020, 03:45:14 am
All the democrats from NY, NJ, and California moving to states like Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida has impacted and will further impact elections in the future. Republicans won’t win unless they have a polarizing figure like Trump or a young charismatic candidate that is moderate and not very conservative.

I personally think the party system is trash and we need to do something about it. These two candidates are garbage and the other parties could’ve had a huge opportunity here to win votes (Almost like Gary Johnson in 2016). The media doesn’t give any other parties attention and I feel like third party candidates do a shit job of marketing and using the internet to influence votes.

Now we are stuck with Joe Biden for a couple years and then a Marxist in Kamala Harris for the rest of the term.

Yang 2024
yeah Gary Johnson the pothead with his brain fried is a great example of third party candidates
I'm just stating that he actually got a decent chunk of votes. I believe a third party candidate has the ability to actually compete for votes especially if they run a good campaign. There was no better time than now for someone to step up outside of the Republican or Democratic parties, and nobody took advantage. All it takes nowadays is an internet movement.


If a third party candidate ever gets big in this current climate, it will simply be a repeat of Ross Perot. The political tribalism runs too deep for any other party to make wiggle room. All you can hope for is that demographics shift just enough for the DNC and GOP to actually listen

A Ross Perot is exactly what we need. If Yang ran as an independent in this election and took part in the debates I honestly think he’d have gotten at least 20,000,000 votes. Someone similar can make a push in the next election I believe. (But IMO this election was the best time for a third party candidate to make a statement and they failed miserably)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on November 05, 2020, 04:07:10 am
All the democrats from NY, NJ, and California moving to states like Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida has impacted and will further impact elections in the future. Republicans won’t win unless they have a polarizing figure like Trump or a young charismatic candidate that is moderate and not very conservative.

I personally think the party system is trash and we need to do something about it. These two candidates are garbage and the other parties could’ve had a huge opportunity here to win votes (Almost like Gary Johnson in 2016). The media doesn’t give any other parties attention and I feel like third party candidates do a shit job of marketing and using the internet to influence votes.

Now we are stuck with Joe Biden for a couple years and then a Marxist in Kamala Harris for the rest of the term.

Yang 2024
yeah Gary Johnson the pothead with his brain fried is a great example of third party candidates
I'm just stating that he actually got a decent chunk of votes. I believe a third party candidate has the ability to actually compete for votes especially if they run a good campaign. There was no better time than now for someone to step up outside of the Republican or Democratic parties, and nobody took advantage. All it takes nowadays is an internet movement.


If a third party candidate ever gets big in this current climate, it will simply be a repeat of Ross Perot. The political tribalism runs too deep for any other party to make wiggle room. All you can hope for is that demographics shift just enough for the DNC and GOP to actually listen

A Ross Perot is exactly what we need. If Yang ran as an independent in this election and took part in the debates I honestly think he’d have gotten at least 20,000,000 votes. Someone similar can make a push in the next election I believe. (But IMO this election was the best time for a third party candidate to make a statement and they failed miserably)

Wtf none of this logic ever makes sense to me. How can you guys truly believe that Andrew Yang is the best candidate for America and then somehow make the jump all the way to Trump. Biden will be a lot closer to Andrew Yang on like every issue ever and was even endorsed by him. You say you want Andrew Yang yet you pull for Trump? This is just like 2016 where all the progressive democrats said Clinton wasn't good enough. You guys say you want this stuff but then vote completely opposite of it because it's not exactly what you wanted. If you were a true Yang supporter you would realize like he did, that Biden would be a lot closer of a candidate to him then Trump would be.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Windflower on November 05, 2020, 04:30:34 am
Y'all are forgetting the G.O.A.T Independant candidate George Wallace he was a great leader!

Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/dd8228948175cfa169274aa3661ca3bb.png)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 05, 2020, 04:37:09 am
All the democrats from NY, NJ, and California moving to states like Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida has impacted and will further impact elections in the future. Republicans won’t win unless they have a polarizing figure like Trump or a young charismatic candidate that is moderate and not very conservative.

I personally think the party system is trash and we need to do something about it. These two candidates are garbage and the other parties could’ve had a huge opportunity here to win votes (Almost like Gary Johnson in 2016). The media doesn’t give any other parties attention and I feel like third party candidates do a shit job of marketing and using the internet to influence votes.

Now we are stuck with Joe Biden for a couple years and then a Marxist in Kamala Harris for the rest of the term.

Yang 2024
yeah Gary Johnson the pothead with his brain fried is a great example of third party candidates
I'm just stating that he actually got a decent chunk of votes. I believe a third party candidate has the ability to actually compete for votes especially if they run a good campaign. There was no better time than now for someone to step up outside of the Republican or Democratic parties, and nobody took advantage. All it takes nowadays is an internet movement.


If a third party candidate ever gets big in this current climate, it will simply be a repeat of Ross Perot. The political tribalism runs too deep for any other party to make wiggle room. All you can hope for is that demographics shift just enough for the DNC and GOP to actually listen

A Ross Perot is exactly what we need. If Yang ran as an independent in this election and took part in the debates I honestly think he’d have gotten at least 20,000,000 votes. Someone similar can make a push in the next election I believe. (But IMO this election was the best time for a third party candidate to make a statement and they failed miserably)

A Ross Perot is definitely not what we need. Granted, he did tally 20 million votes and hurt his chances by temporarily dropping out, but the main contributor his success was the general apathy towards both Bush and Clinton. 

The gears are locked and both major parties have locked in. Unless we see a grand spiritual reawakening in political independence amongst the American people, don't expect a third party to rise from the ashes of partisan conflict.

As for Yang, his lasted legacy will be Freedom Dividend. That singular push for UBI has ignited the possibility of it becoming mainstream across a broad spectrum of candidates. If automation keeps going the way that it will, then a popular UBI proposition could be seen within the next decade.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Thunderstormer on November 05, 2020, 04:39:26 am
tbh, the best time for a 3rd party candidate  would of been 2016.  You had 2 very disliked people.  Biden is not as hated/disliked as clinton is/was.  To have a chance though, they would of had to had relatively large base early in the race.  showing up a month or 2 before election day just wont cut it.  they would probably need a lot of large donors.

and at this point, the vast majority of people are very for/against trump.  i doubt as many people would want to risk their vote for someone else.   and if you are a 3rd party candidate, do you want to risk the person you dislike more winning?

3rd party candidates in general tend to take more from one of the parties, rather than an even split.  the best chance a 3rd party candidate would have is if both parties nominate someone on the extreme ends, and they can take all the moderate and independent voters.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on November 05, 2020, 06:23:30 am
Notice how even though Biden has a 100k vote lead in Arizona he's not suing to stop counting the ballots. You can't want to count the ballots in Arizona and then want to stop the counting in Pennsylvania.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 05, 2020, 06:45:28 am
Notice how even though Biden has a 100k vote lead in Arizona he's not suing to stop counting the ballots. You can't want to count the ballots in Arizona and then want to stop the counting in Pennsylvania.

To add to this, Trump protestors have now shutdown a station in Maricopa County, a place where Trump needs to win a significant percentage in order to make Arizona viable again.

We have gone full circle, where counting the votes is now considered fraudulent.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 05, 2020, 08:33:59 am
All the democrats from NY, NJ, and California moving to states like Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida has impacted and will further impact elections in the future. Republicans won’t win unless they have a polarizing figure like Trump or a young charismatic candidate that is moderate and not very conservative.

I personally think the party system is trash and we need to do something about it. These two candidates are garbage and the other parties could’ve had a huge opportunity here to win votes (Almost like Gary Johnson in 2016). The media doesn’t give any other parties attention and I feel like third party candidates do a shit job of marketing and using the internet to influence votes.

Now we are stuck with Joe Biden for a couple years and then a Marxist in Kamala Harris for the rest of the term.

Yang 2024
yeah Gary Johnson the pothead with his brain fried is a great example of third party candidates
I'm just stating that he actually got a decent chunk of votes. I believe a third party candidate has the ability to actually compete for votes especially if they run a good campaign. There was no better time than now for someone to step up outside of the Republican or Democratic parties, and nobody took advantage. All it takes nowadays is an internet movement.


If a third party candidate ever gets big in this current climate, it will simply be a repeat of Ross Perot. The political tribalism runs too deep for any other party to make wiggle room. All you can hope for is that demographics shift just enough for the DNC and GOP to actually listen

A Ross Perot is exactly what we need. If Yang ran as an independent in this election and took part in the debates I honestly think he’d have gotten at least 20,000,000 votes. Someone similar can make a push in the next election I believe. (But IMO this election was the best time for a third party candidate to make a statement and they failed miserably)

Wtf none of this logic ever makes sense to me. How can you guys truly believe that Andrew Yang is the best candidate for America and then somehow make the jump all the way to Trump. Biden will be a lot closer to Andrew Yang on like every issue ever and was even endorsed by him. You say you want Andrew Yang yet you pull for Trump? This is just like 2016 where all the progressive democrats said Clinton wasn't good enough. You guys say you want this stuff but then vote completely opposite of it because it's not exactly what you wanted. If you were a true Yang supporter you would realize like he did, that Biden would be a lot closer of a candidate to him then Trump would be.
"According to three Insider polls of voters who hadn't decided whether they're voting Republican or Democrat, 46% said they would be satisfied with him as the nominee, the highest level of support among any Democratic candidate. Former Vice President Joe Biden held the next-highest percentage of undecided voters, with 42%."
https://www.businessinsider.com/right-leaning-voters-support-andrew-yang-2020-1 (good article that might explain why Yang swayed 2016 Trump voters)

Yang appeals to me a lot more than two 70+ year old men (one an internet troll, the other deteriorating mentally). Yang is more relatable and is a young fresh face. He speaks well and his motto "not left, not right, forward" is something I also believe in. Took a while to learn and get used to his UBI plan but I can get over it. Stimulus checks worked out during the pandemic. I can see it happening more often in the future. I agree with his outlook that automation will one day replace many jobs and we have to prepare and not avoid it. Some of the things I disagree with him on are the taxes he'd propose on Wall Street trades, and his VAT taxes.

(Also Yang, and most democratic leaders/candidates, are expected to endorse the leader of their party)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on November 05, 2020, 09:42:31 am
All the democrats from NY, NJ, and California moving to states like Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida has impacted and will further impact elections in the future. Republicans won’t win unless they have a polarizing figure like Trump or a young charismatic candidate that is moderate and not very conservative.

I personally think the party system is trash and we need to do something about it. These two candidates are garbage and the other parties could’ve had a huge opportunity here to win votes (Almost like Gary Johnson in 2016). The media doesn’t give any other parties attention and I feel like third party candidates do a shit job of marketing and using the internet to influence votes.

Now we are stuck with Joe Biden for a couple years and then a Marxist in Kamala Harris for the rest of the term.

Yang 2024
yeah Gary Johnson the pothead with his brain fried is a great example of third party candidates
I'm just stating that he actually got a decent chunk of votes. I believe a third party candidate has the ability to actually compete for votes especially if they run a good campaign. There was no better time than now for someone to step up outside of the Republican or Democratic parties, and nobody took advantage. All it takes nowadays is an internet movement.


If a third party candidate ever gets big in this current climate, it will simply be a repeat of Ross Perot. The political tribalism runs too deep for any other party to make wiggle room. All you can hope for is that demographics shift just enough for the DNC and GOP to actually listen

A Ross Perot is exactly what we need. If Yang ran as an independent in this election and took part in the debates I honestly think he’d have gotten at least 20,000,000 votes. Someone similar can make a push in the next election I believe. (But IMO this election was the best time for a third party candidate to make a statement and they failed miserably)

Wtf none of this logic ever makes sense to me. How can you guys truly believe that Andrew Yang is the best candidate for America and then somehow make the jump all the way to Trump. Biden will be a lot closer to Andrew Yang on like every issue ever and was even endorsed by him. You say you want Andrew Yang yet you pull for Trump? This is just like 2016 where all the progressive democrats said Clinton wasn't good enough. You guys say you want this stuff but then vote completely opposite of it because it's not exactly what you wanted. If you were a true Yang supporter you would realize like he did, that Biden would be a lot closer of a candidate to him then Trump would be.
"According to three Insider polls of voters who hadn't decided whether they're voting Republican or Democrat, 46% said they would be satisfied with him as the nominee, the highest level of support among any Democratic candidate. Former Vice President Joe Biden held the next-highest percentage of undecided voters, with 42%."
https://www.businessinsider.com/right-leaning-voters-support-andrew-yang-2020-1 (good article that might explain why Yang swayed 2016 Trump voters)

Yang appeals to me a lot more than two 70+ year old men (one an internet troll, the other deteriorating mentally). Yang is more relatable and is a young fresh face. He speaks well and his motto "not left, not right, forward" is something I also believe in. Took a while to learn and get used to his UBI plan but I can get over it. Stimulus checks worked out during the pandemic. I can see it happening more often in the future. I agree with his outlook that automation will one day replace many jobs and we have to prepare and not avoid it. Some of the things I disagree with him on are the taxes he'd propose on Wall Street trades, and his VAT taxes.

(Also Yang, and most democratic leaders/candidates, are expected to endorse the leader of their party)

But you do understand that stuff like UBI is more likely to be accomplished under more leftist regimes? This means that by pulling for Trump you're setting back your own agenda further. Yes Yang is "expected" to endorse Biden but like you said... there in the same party. They're going to have a lot more in common than Trump and Yang are and if Yang were to be elected in the future someday they still have to push through their basic agenda before they get to stuff like UBI. An increase to minimum wage is much more likely than passing universal basic income. How can you expect to have UBI in a nation where there is no universal healthcare? 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on November 05, 2020, 11:45:21 am
UBI is stupid and I will never support someone who wants it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 05, 2020, 03:25:17 pm
Why does having universal healthcare have any effect on the viability of UBI? The federal government is already very good at mailing cheques, it would be fairly simple to implement a nationwide UBI

Also Hawk man I think the point you’re missing on why Trump supporters would support Yang is that Yang talked about how he understood why people who don’t necessarily like Trump voted him anyways (disengagement from society and the economy, dissatisfaction with mainstream politicians) and Yang treated Trump supporters as legitimate voters with legitimate reasons for voting for him, which is not really popular among Democratic circles. Both of these things resonated with Trump supporters, even if they had policy differences with Yang. A lot of people vote for a persons character and political identity rather than strictly policy, and Yang’s character was much more appealing than any other Dem candidate
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on November 05, 2020, 09:56:23 pm
UBI is for NEETs that just want their NEETbux and it will implode the economy but hey free money! but Yang was argubly the best choice for the dems because he actually knows where he's at a majority of the time
 It might work in a heavily socialized government but definitely not the USA
Also Hawk man I think the point you’re missing on why Trump supporters would support Yang is that Yang talked about how he understood why people who don’t necessarily like Trump voted him anyways (disengagement from society and the economy, dissatisfaction with mainstream politicians) and Yang treated Trump supporters as legitimate voters with legitimate reasons for voting for him, which is not really popular among Democratic circles. Both of these things resonated with Trump supporters, even if they had policy differences with Yang. A lot of people vote for a persons character and political identity rather than strictly policy, and Yang’s character was much more appealing than any other Dem candidate
I voted for trump so I can watch the chimp out happen again which would in turn radicalize the working class white man towards right wing extremism. which would be wholesome 100 big chungus
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: The Marksman on November 05, 2020, 09:58:13 pm
I think Trump really shot himself in the foot, and not even anything recently, but just how he's behaved for the past four years in office. If he had been able to speak with any semblance of eloquence or tried to relate to people who weren't 100% in his camp he would have been targeted a lot less by the media and would have a considerably better image. And being the twitter president and making snide remarks all the time, while entertaining, was not a good long term strategy. If he had acted with a bit more grace I think he wins another term but the way things are now its not looking great for him.

And the Republican party is going to be fine. One thing that was definitely a factor in this election was the current state of things in the country right now. Regardless whether you think covid or the protests were the fault of Trump, when the country is in a bad shape it reflects on the president and people want change. This has been the case for a long time and it will be the reason why the Democrats aren't going to "take over" the country for years to come just because Trump's base is "dying out". Unless you have confidence that the Democratic party can lead the country perfectly from now until the end of time there will be another Republican. Likely one that utilizes a similar approach that Trump did in 2016. Whether or not all republican candidates will be considered "populists" from here on out we'll have to wait to see. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on November 05, 2020, 10:05:07 pm
https://twitter.com/ej11lizzie/status/1324218622751830019
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 05, 2020, 10:44:51 pm
Why does having universal healthcare have any effect on the viability of UBI? The federal government is already very good at mailing cheques, it would be fairly simple to implement a nationwide UBI

Also Hawk man I think the point you’re missing on why Trump supporters would support Yang is that Yang talked about how he understood why people who don’t necessarily like Trump voted him anyways (disengagement from society and the economy, dissatisfaction with mainstream politicians) and Yang treated Trump supporters as legitimate voters with legitimate reasons for voting for him, which is not really popular among Democratic circles. Both of these things resonated with Trump supporters, even if they had policy differences with Yang. A lot of people vote for a persons character and political identity rather than strictly policy, and Yang’s character was much more appealing than any other Dem candidate
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on November 05, 2020, 11:13:05 pm
Why does having universal healthcare have any effect on the viability of UBI? The federal government is already very good at mailing cheques, it would be fairly simple to implement a nationwide UBI

Also Hawk man I think the point you’re missing on why Trump supporters would support Yang is that Yang talked about how he understood why people who don’t necessarily like Trump voted him anyways (disengagement from society and the economy, dissatisfaction with mainstream politicians) and Yang treated Trump supporters as legitimate voters with legitimate reasons for voting for him, which is not really popular among Democratic circles. Both of these things resonated with Trump supporters, even if they had policy differences with Yang. A lot of people vote for a persons character and political identity rather than strictly policy, and Yang’s character was much more appealing than any other Dem candidate
You totally misunderstood what Hawkince was saying about UBI and universal health care go back and reread his post. Also if you honestly think that UBI is as simple as government mailing checks then you have a child-like understanding of politics in the United States.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on November 06, 2020, 12:17:26 am
Why does having universal healthcare have any effect on the viability of UBI? The federal government is already very good at mailing cheques, it would be fairly simple to implement a nationwide UBI

Also Hawk man I think the point you’re missing on why Trump supporters would support Yang is that Yang talked about how he understood why people who don’t necessarily like Trump voted him anyways (disengagement from society and the economy, dissatisfaction with mainstream politicians) and Yang treated Trump supporters as legitimate voters with legitimate reasons for voting for him, which is not really popular among Democratic circles. Both of these things resonated with Trump supporters, even if they had policy differences with Yang. A lot of people vote for a persons character and political identity rather than strictly policy, and Yang’s character was much more appealing than any other Dem candidate

It's the implication that a nation without universal healthcare is a long ways away from implenting UBI. Federal Minimum wage hasn't been increased since 2007 and if increasing with inflation should be just over 9$ now. The idea that Biden is a candidate with little widespread appeal is also inherently false. The reason the DNC got behind him was because he was seen as a moderate and could appeal to broad sides of the spectrum. Also fartknocker had said he supported Yang through a combination of his identity and policy something I believe Biden shares alot more with him then Trump.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Krastinov on November 06, 2020, 01:59:34 am
finally the furries get their vengeance
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on November 06, 2020, 02:14:05 am
yang campaigned primarily  on the freedom dividend/UBI + said he would endorse a candidate that also supported UBI. Not sure how you transition into trump who’s administration has delivered one stimulus check over 9 months of the pandemic. even uncle joe is too moderate to implement something like UBI
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 06, 2020, 02:57:51 am
I don't know if the DNC would even allow a candidate like Yang to ever become the frontrunner. They run boring, milquetoast neoliberals because that's precisely what most of the center-left want: a boring president that you don't have to worry about.

On the other hand, the imminent recession caused by COVID could be its best shot for years to come. The moratoriums for millions are about to end and food banks are getting longer lines every day. Something drastic needs to happen in order to avoid an even bigger disaster than it already is. It'll get shit on by some of the right for being "socialism" while the establishment continues to ignore every problem in the country in it while continuing to suck up to its donors, but I don't really see a better opportunity.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 06, 2020, 04:01:19 am
I only meant to quote the bottom part of what Theodin said. You were asking how a Trump voter could flip to Yang. His response nailed it.

I also put more stock into the person than the policies. Trump was different than the normal boring politicians and he was entertaining and honest. I am big on business and the business appeal of Trump was initially what got me. Hillary was also fucking awful and I couldn’t stand her. So that didn’t help. Biden is just old and listening to him speak is fucking hard to sit through. Kamala Harris is like the opposite end of the spectrum. Trump was doing a fairly good job before the pandemic although him not knowing how to shut up and just say the right thing is always annoying. If there was a decent democratic candidate I’d have strongly considered voting Democrat.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on November 06, 2020, 04:12:55 am
I don't know if the DNC would even allow a candidate like Yang to ever become the frontrunner. They run boring, milquetoast neoliberals because that's precisely what most of the center-left want: a boring president that you don't have to worry about.

On the other hand, the imminent recession caused by COVID could be its best shot for years to come. The moratoriums for millions are about to end and food banks are getting longer lines every day. Something drastic needs to happen in order to avoid an even bigger disaster than it already is. It'll get shit on by some of the right for being "socialism" while the establishment continues to ignore every problem in the country in it while continuing to suck up to its donors, but I don't really see a better opportunity.

This is not true. Obama was a remarkably unknown state senator and came in at a time when he was given almost no shot. Hillary Clinton was a enormous favorite and Obama won people over with his message of hope and great change. Obama invigorated many people and ran 2 very successful campaigns. Regardless of what you think Obama did or didn't do for America you have to agree that he was by no means a "boring, milquetoast neoliberal" candidate because he was the complete opposite.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 06, 2020, 04:16:28 am
Spoiler
Why does having universal healthcare have any effect on the viability of UBI? The federal government is already very good at mailing cheques, it would be fairly simple to implement a nationwide UBI

Also Hawk man I think the point you’re missing on why Trump supporters would support Yang is that Yang talked about how he understood why people who don’t necessarily like Trump voted him anyways (disengagement from society and the economy, dissatisfaction with mainstream politicians) and Yang treated Trump supporters as legitimate voters with legitimate reasons for voting for him, which is not really popular among Democratic circles. Both of these things resonated with Trump supporters, even if they had policy differences with Yang. A lot of people vote for a persons character and political identity rather than strictly policy, and Yang’s character was much more appealing than any other Dem candidate
You totally misunderstood what Hawkince was saying about UBI and universal health care go back and reread his post. Also if you honestly think that UBI is as simple as government mailing checks then you have a child-like understanding of politics in the United States.
[close]
the political climate and the policy are two different things ; UBI is, at its core, a very simple idea. but obviously the actual legislation would be complex, no doubt

It's the implication that a nation without universal healthcare is a long ways away from implenting UBI. Federal Minimum wage hasn't been increased since 2007 and if increasing with inflation should be just over 9$ now.
Yes, I agree, that is a strong implication - however, many dichotomies exist within the US government political system, so it wouldn't be that much of a surprise to see UBI with a private healthcare system
The idea that Biden is a candidate with little widespread appeal is also inherently false. The reason the DNC got behind him was because he was seen as a moderate and could appeal to broad sides of the spectrum.
I never said Biden didn't have widespread appeal among broad sections of society, this is obviously true, he just had a lot less appeal from Trump supporters comparatively
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: JollyCanadian on November 06, 2020, 04:33:36 am
I got my stimulus few days after I applied. Feels nice :D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 06, 2020, 04:42:04 am
I don't know if the DNC would even allow a candidate like Yang to ever become the frontrunner. They run boring, milquetoast neoliberals because that's precisely what most of the center-left want: a boring president that you don't have to worry about.

On the other hand, the imminent recession caused by COVID could be its best shot for years to come. The moratoriums for millions are about to end and food banks are getting longer lines every day. Something drastic needs to happen in order to avoid an even bigger disaster than it already is. It'll get shit on by some of the right for being "socialism" while the establishment continues to ignore every problem in the country in it while continuing to suck up to its donors, but I don't really see a better opportunity.

This is not true. Obama was a remarkably unknown state senator and came in at a time when he was given almost no shot. Hillary Clinton was a enormous favorite and Obama won people over with his message of hope and great change. Obama invigorated many people and ran 2 very successful campaigns. Regardless of what you think Obama did or didn't do for America you have to agree that he was by no means a "boring, milquetoast neoliberal" candidate because he was the complete opposite.
I agree.

Obama was a great "leader". As in, the man was very charismatic, funny, relatable, nice, well spoken, and was different than the norm. I like the guy a lot even though I disagree with some of his policies on healthcare and the economy. He will probably be the coolest president of our lifetimes tbh. And it is easy for me to see someone like that winning again.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Glenn on November 06, 2020, 04:44:40 am
I don't know if the DNC would even allow a candidate like Yang to ever become the frontrunner. They run boring, milquetoast neoliberals because that's precisely what most of the center-left want: a boring president that you don't have to worry about.

On the other hand, the imminent recession caused by COVID could be its best shot for years to come. The moratoriums for millions are about to end and food banks are getting longer lines every day. Something drastic needs to happen in order to avoid an even bigger disaster than it already is. It'll get shit on by some of the right for being "socialism" while the establishment continues to ignore every problem in the country in it while continuing to suck up to its donors, but I don't really see a better opportunity.

This is not true. Obama was a remarkably unknown state senator and came in at a time when he was given almost no shot. Hillary Clinton was a enormous favorite and Obama won people over with his message of hope and great change. Obama invigorated many people and ran 2 very successful campaigns. Regardless of what you think Obama did or didn't do for America you have to agree that he was by no means a "boring, milquetoast neoliberal" candidate because he was the complete opposite.
I agree.

Obama was a great "leader". As in, the man was very charismatic, funny, relatable, nice, well spoken, and was different than the norm. I like the guy a lot even though I disagree with some of his policies on healthcare and the economy. He will probably be the coolest president of our lifetimes tbh. And it is easy for me to see someone like that winning again.

Obama is also a hall of fame corner specialist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE_f3Z-Vdns
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 06, 2020, 05:20:30 am
I don't know if the DNC would even allow a candidate like Yang to ever become the frontrunner. They run boring, milquetoast neoliberals because that's precisely what most of the center-left want: a boring president that you don't have to worry about.

On the other hand, the imminent recession caused by COVID could be its best shot for years to come. The moratoriums for millions are about to end and food banks are getting longer lines every day. Something drastic needs to happen in order to avoid an even bigger disaster than it already is. It'll get shit on by some of the right for being "socialism" while the establishment continues to ignore every problem in the country in it while continuing to suck up to its donors, but I don't really see a better opportunity.

This is not true. Obama was a remarkably unknown state senator and came in at a time when he was given almost no shot. Hillary Clinton was a enormous favorite and Obama won people over with his message of hope and great change. Obama invigorated many people and ran 2 very successful campaigns. Regardless of what you think Obama did or didn't do for America you have to agree that he was by no means a "boring, milquetoast neoliberal" candidate because he was the complete opposite.

I'll admit Obama was a breath of fresh air. He is an exceptional orator and his everyman image certainly helped, but the outside figures certainly boosted him in 08. The recession was in full swing and opinions were turning sour towards the Iraq War, something both Clinton and McCain were adamant about continuing. Much like with Trump, voters were convinced that they could challenge the status-quo with the "outsider" candidate that was Obama. I think he really tried at the start but slowly got worn down as Republicans and even his own party simply couldn't get anything done without butting heads.

The thing is about his run is that he was a one-in-a-million candidate. The exception to a pattern that had remained unbroken since Humphrey. Just look at the previous Democratic candidates from the past 35 years: Kerry, Clinton (Bill), Gore, Dukakis. The common denominator here is that they all ran boring campaigns with meh levels of charisma. These people were definitely milquetoast but still got the nominations. That is the normal, and will likely remain so until you get someone similar to Obama, which I don't expect will happen for awhile.

You are right about 2012 Obama though, he ran a perfect ground campaign and Romney just couldn't turn out the more grassroot Republicans.

I think people are starting to realize that running an exciting campaign built on hope does not translate well into actual legislation. While he didn't get the nomination either of the two time he tried, Bernie would most certainly turned out the same way had he won, ran a campaign promising change only to be battered down by opposition from the GOP and more centrist Democrats. The outcome of this is ultimately cynicism. We can't expect people to put faith into a system that constantly lies to them and doesn't produce anything but gridlocks. Sooner or later that hopeful campaign shtick is going to run out of gas.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on November 06, 2020, 08:51:15 am
I don't know if the DNC would even allow a candidate like Yang to ever become the frontrunner. They run boring, milquetoast neoliberals because that's precisely what most of the center-left want: a boring president that you don't have to worry about.

On the other hand, the imminent recession caused by COVID could be its best shot for years to come. The moratoriums for millions are about to end and food banks are getting longer lines every day. Something drastic needs to happen in order to avoid an even bigger disaster than it already is. It'll get shit on by some of the right for being "socialism" while the establishment continues to ignore every problem in the country in it while continuing to suck up to its donors, but I don't really see a better opportunity.

This is not true. Obama was a remarkably unknown state senator and came in at a time when he was given almost no shot. Hillary Clinton was a enormous favorite and Obama won people over with his message of hope and great change. Obama invigorated many people and ran 2 very successful campaigns. Regardless of what you think Obama did or didn't do for America you have to agree that he was by no means a "boring, milquetoast neoliberal" candidate because he was the complete opposite.

I'll admit Obama was a breath of fresh air. He is an exceptional orator and his everyman image certainly helped, but the outside figures certainly boosted him in 08. The recession was in full swing and opinions were turning sour towards the Iraq War, something both Clinton and McCain were adamant about continuing. Much like with Trump, voters were convinced that they could challenge the status-quo with the "outsider" candidate that was Obama. I think he really tried at the start but slowly got worn down as Republicans and even his own party simply couldn't get anything done without butting heads.

The thing is about his run is that he was a one-in-a-million candidate. The exception to a pattern that had remained unbroken since Humphrey. Just look at the previous Democratic candidates from the past 35 years: Kerry, Clinton (Bill), Gore, Dukakis. The common denominator here is that they all ran boring campaigns with meh levels of charisma. These people were definitely milquetoast but still got the nominations. That is the normal, and will likely remain so until you get someone similar to Obama, which I don't expect will happen for awhile.

You are right about 2012 Obama though, he ran a perfect ground campaign and Romney just couldn't turn out the more grassroot Republicans.

I think people are starting to realize that running an exciting campaign built on hope does not translate well into actual legislation. While he didn't get the nomination either of the two time he tried, Bernie would most certainly turned out the same way had he won, ran a campaign promising change only to be battered down by opposition from the GOP and more centrist Democrats. The outcome of this is ultimately cynicism. We can't expect people to put faith into a system that constantly lies to them and doesn't produce anything but gridlocks. Sooner or later that hopeful campaign shtick is going to run out of gas.

Again you are wrong, as Bill Clinton was ironically plagued by a extramarital affair in his 1992 campaign and had finished 3rd in the Iowa and 2nd in the New Hampshire primaries. He came into the primaries as a southern state governor and wasn't until super tuesday did he establish himself as a legitimate candidate. In the actual election he capitalized similarly to Barack Obama on a weak economy and I would argue was a pretty good candidate. Turnout increased by 5 percent from 1998 to 1992 and he found much success across much of America including his native south, despite Ross Perot's early polling leads. His 2nd campaign in the 1996 election saw turnout go down 5 percent again although that's not something I would fault Bill for as much as his opposition. Bob Dole was not the greatest candidate and Ross Perot no longer had much of a base at all.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ted on November 06, 2020, 09:57:53 am
God bless the USA and Joe Biden I guess.

Remember how McCain conceded to Obama? That's how a honest and self-confident patriot embodies freedom and presidential grace. Now, there's an incumbent who has repeated "I,I,I", "fraud", and "stealing the election" for months now and still fails to look at anything beyond his own interest and ego. The Republicans will remain an important power imo, but they'll have to look at their greatest predecessors and get rid of those who pretend to defend freedom and the people's rights instead of actually committing themselves to the cause. No "Oh I pray all day to the DEAR LOD and JESUS" will fix this. It's up to honest reappraisal.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on November 06, 2020, 11:07:38 am
Spoiler
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/603414241701003277/774211779639115796/20201106_040044.jpg)
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Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 06, 2020, 01:24:29 pm
I don't know if the DNC would even allow a candidate like Yang to ever become the frontrunner. They run boring, milquetoast neoliberals because that's precisely what most of the center-left want: a boring president that you don't have to worry about.

On the other hand, the imminent recession caused by COVID could be its best shot for years to come. The moratoriums for millions are about to end and food banks are getting longer lines every day. Something drastic needs to happen in order to avoid an even bigger disaster than it already is. It'll get shit on by some of the right for being "socialism" while the establishment continues to ignore every problem in the country in it while continuing to suck up to its donors, but I don't really see a better opportunity.

This is not true. Obama was a remarkably unknown state senator and came in at a time when he was given almost no shot. Hillary Clinton was a enormous favorite and Obama won people over with his message of hope and great change. Obama invigorated many people and ran 2 very successful campaigns. Regardless of what you think Obama did or didn't do for America you have to agree that he was by no means a "boring, milquetoast neoliberal" candidate because he was the complete opposite.

I'll admit Obama was a breath of fresh air. He is an exceptional orator and his everyman image certainly helped, but the outside figures certainly boosted him in 08. The recession was in full swing and opinions were turning sour towards the Iraq War, something both Clinton and McCain were adamant about continuing. Much like with Trump, voters were convinced that they could challenge the status-quo with the "outsider" candidate that was Obama. I think he really tried at the start but slowly got worn down as Republicans and even his own party simply couldn't get anything done without butting heads.

The thing is about his run is that he was a one-in-a-million candidate. The exception to a pattern that had remained unbroken since Humphrey. Just look at the previous Democratic candidates from the past 35 years: Kerry, Clinton (Bill), Gore, Dukakis. The common denominator here is that they all ran boring campaigns with meh levels of charisma. These people were definitely milquetoast but still got the nominations. That is the normal, and will likely remain so until you get someone similar to Obama, which I don't expect will happen for awhile.

You are right about 2012 Obama though, he ran a perfect ground campaign and Romney just couldn't turn out the more grassroot Republicans.

I think people are starting to realize that running an exciting campaign built on hope does not translate well into actual legislation. While he didn't get the nomination either of the two time he tried, Bernie would most certainly turned out the same way had he won, ran a campaign promising change only to be battered down by opposition from the GOP and more centrist Democrats. The outcome of this is ultimately cynicism. We can't expect people to put faith into a system that constantly lies to them and doesn't produce anything but gridlocks. Sooner or later that hopeful campaign shtick is going to run out of gas.

Again you are wrong, as Bill Clinton was ironically plagued by a extramarital affair in his 1992 campaign and had finished 3rd in the Iowa and 2nd in the New Hampshire primaries. He came into the primaries as a southern state governor and wasn't until super tuesday did he establish himself as a legitimate candidate. In the actual election he capitalized similarly to Barack Obama on a weak economy and I would argue was a pretty good candidate. Turnout increased by 5 percent from 1998 to 1992 and he found much success across much of America including his native south, despite Ross Perot's early polling leads. His 2nd campaign in the 1996 election saw turnout go down 5 percent again although that's not something I would fault Bill for as much as his opposition. Bob Dole was not the greatest candidate and Ross Perot no longer had much of a base at all.

Completely forgot about the Flowers scandal. My bad then.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on November 06, 2020, 11:41:44 pm
Everyone who posts on the FSE Politics Thread
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/024/207/brainlettttt.jpg)
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yes i am everyone
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Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Eamon on November 07, 2020, 12:36:48 am
I clicked through all of it you bastard
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~Midnight~ on November 07, 2020, 12:54:23 am
I clicked through all of it you bastard
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on November 07, 2020, 01:29:33 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLyQ4WQgwNs
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on November 07, 2020, 05:11:29 am
I clicked through all of it you bastard
trolled in epic gamer fashion
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 07, 2020, 08:22:12 am
Damn. Looks like a Pyrrhic victory at best for the Dems. Republicans may have lost their best meatshield in history, but they gained in the house and held the senate (unless the GA runoff goes favorably for the Dems). They will certainly come back with a vengeance in '22 and given historical trends, it could be a complete blowout barring any major revelations.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on November 07, 2020, 06:21:11 pm
UBI is stupid and I will never support someone who wants it

Ahh you're one of those that likes paying taxes to get next to nothing in return for it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 07, 2020, 06:55:17 pm
Damn. Looks like a Pyrrhic victory at best for the Dems. Republicans may have lost their best meatshield in history, but they gained in the house and held the senate (unless the GA runoff goes favorably for the Dems). They will certainly come back with a vengeance in '22 and given historical trends, it could be a complete blowout barring any major revelations.
Imagine if Republicans could scrounge up a half decent candidate? Would probably go very poorly for Biden. But historically he will probably win his second term as long as he Doesn’t massively fuck up or die.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 07, 2020, 06:58:39 pm
Damn. Looks like a Pyrrhic victory at best for the Dems. Republicans may have lost their best meatshield in history, but they gained in the house and held the senate (unless the GA runoff goes favorably for the Dems). They will certainly come back with a vengeance in '22 and given historical trends, it could be a complete blowout barring any major revelations.
Imagine if Republicans could scrounge up a half decent candidate? Would probably go very poorly for Biden. But historically he will probably win his second term as long as he Doesn’t massively fuck up or die.

They don't even need a half decent candidate. Trump would have annihilated Biden if he just shut his mouth and came up with a somewhat effective COVID response.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ted on November 07, 2020, 07:01:22 pm
God bless the USA and Joe Biden I guess.


 :D :D :D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 07, 2020, 07:03:50 pm
Damn. Looks like a Pyrrhic victory at best for the Dems. Republicans may have lost their best meatshield in history, but they gained in the house and held the senate (unless the GA runoff goes favorably for the Dems). They will certainly come back with a vengeance in '22 and given historical trends, it could be a complete blowout barring any major revelations.
Imagine if Republicans could scrounge up a half decent candidate? Would probably go very poorly for Biden. But historically he will probably win his second term as long as he Doesn’t massively fuck up or die.

They don't even need a half decent candidate. Trump would have annihilated Biden if he just shut his mouth and came up with a somewhat effective COVID response.

Trump has a diehard fan base. The next guy won’t
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on November 07, 2020, 07:54:06 pm
Damn. Looks like a Pyrrhic victory at best for the Dems. Republicans may have lost their best meatshield in history, but they gained in the house and held the senate (unless the GA runoff goes favorably for the Dems). They will certainly come back with a vengeance in '22 and given historical trends, it could be a complete blowout barring any major revelations.
Imagine if Republicans could scrounge up a half decent candidate? Would probably go very poorly for Biden. But historically he will probably win his second term as long as he Doesn’t massively fuck up or die.

They don't even need a half decent candidate. Trump would have annihilated Biden if he just shut his mouth and came up with a somewhat effective COVID response.

Trump has a diehard fan base. The next guy won’t

Given the rise of populist rhetoric in this country, I highly doubt Trump will be an anomaly. Pandora's box has been burst wide open. The Republicans are aware of what gets their base riled up. they just need to play it right by finding an effective message and the right man to say it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on November 08, 2020, 06:55:43 am
I want tucker carlson to be the next fuhrer
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on November 08, 2020, 07:10:12 am
I want tucker carlson to be the next fuhrer
id rather vote for Hillary
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on November 09, 2020, 09:16:53 am
https://youtu.be/l4Gni803ArQ

(https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/5b3140e674481e62949b6950/3x)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on November 09, 2020, 09:37:57 am
I find it astonishing that America didnt reform its voting system fucking ONCE since it got created. Its so incredibly backwards.

UBI is stupid and I will never support someone who wants it

Ahh you're one of those that likes paying taxes to get next to nothing in return for it.
Isnt it proven that something like a UBI would massively boost the economy?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on November 09, 2020, 10:04:29 am
Watchu mean the founding fathers are basically gods (let's forget that they had slaves *cough*) and the constitution was made to be circle jerked by all American citizens.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on November 09, 2020, 10:08:08 am
I find it astonishing that America didnt reform its voting system fucking ONCE since it got created. Its so incredibly backwards.


the dude who got 15 years of this
(https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/11/09/12/Angela-Merkel.jpg)
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Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ted on November 09, 2020, 11:07:50 am
I find it astonishing that America didnt reform its voting system fucking ONCE since it got created. Its so incredibly backwards.


the dude who got 15 years of this
(https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/11/09/12/Angela-Merkel.jpg)
[close]
Thank you for reminding us that today, 82 years ago, Germans committed one of the worst crimes against fellow Germans leading up to World War 2 and the holocaust - although your picture is from 2018, marking the 80th anniversary. Never forget, always remember. Stand together as Germans against those who attempt to bring us down by terror and segregation. Besides that, let's remember that today 31 years ago the Wall came down, leading to a strong, unified, and historically grounded Germany which we can be proud of, just as stated by Cazasar and depicted by yourself. Cheers!

Spoiler
(https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/media.media.d4a36c4a-3149-4d89-b6a3-c14719edec4b.original1024.jpg)

One year later

(https://www.hdg.de/lemo/img_hd/bestand/objekte/deutscheeinheit/deutschlandfahne-vor-reichstag_foto_LEMO-F-6-182_uls.jpg)
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#ProudToBeAGerman


Besides that, I definitely agree with Cazasar. I'm always astonished by how backwards the US really is in some regards. I'm working at a universityhospital here in Germany where we often treat US army personnel, high ranks most of the time. They even bring in their families and children, preferring our care much over the US system. Looking at what happened with COVID, I can definitely understand why.
Regarding the Voting System, it is my understanding that the Electoral College was a useful institution in times where voting a President was hilariously difficult due to the distances that had to be covered. Voting for Electors who then choose the President was easier to control and manage logistically I guess. Difficult to weigh the cons and pros on this one though imo, it's about completly different systems after all.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on November 09, 2020, 12:13:39 pm
USA gave Germany freedom and democracy, pretty sure they know how to handle themselves ;p
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on November 09, 2020, 12:32:20 pm
USA gave Germany freedom and democracy, pretty sure they know how to handle themselves ;p
they sure did, they even aided in making the best constitution known the world. But they still live with an age old system wich has its roots in a time were slavery was the norm and people were mostly farmers.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on November 09, 2020, 02:01:29 pm
Isnt it proven that something like a UBI would massively boost the economy?
where?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kraz on November 09, 2020, 02:20:38 pm
you guys deserve an exdee
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sadman on November 09, 2020, 10:16:53 pm
i guess we can't rek any more libs the coming 4 years  :'(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on November 09, 2020, 11:16:30 pm
Isnt it proven that something like a UBI would massively boost the economy?
where?

Well big brains have done some big math and many think it would boost the economy. And it seems like common sense honestly. Take some of the tax money that mega corporations are paying and give some of it back to the middle and lower class. Then they spend that money on whatever, so it then sends that money right back into the economy by using money that is already there. Instead of them pretending that they use it on infrastructure and military etc. When they actually are just hoarding it and wasting it on dumb fuck programs that do nothing for majority of people. And the idea that it encourages laziness could be partly true, but the amount would barely be enough to live on. So people would have to work if they wanted anything extra or better. And even if some people do get lazy with it. They are still going to be spending that money so it still goes back into the economy.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on November 10, 2020, 03:56:43 pm
I mean it's pretty well established that poor people spend money, rich people save it.
Money that working class people get goes back into the local economy, creating jobs and stimulating growth, while with each transaction the government skims off tax. Even once they're comfortably paying for all their necessities, they still splash out on "luxuries" when they can afford them.
Contrast that with rich people who store it in off-shore shell companies in countries you can't touch, or just pay someone to estimate the value of a piece of modern art as however many million they owe in tax and donate it to claim back against tax.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on November 10, 2020, 05:27:20 pm
Isnt it proven that something like a UBI would massively boost the economy?
where?

Well big brains have done some big math and many think it would boost the economy. And it seems like common sense honestly. Take some of the tax money that mega corporations are paying and give some of it back to the middle and lower class. Then they spend that money on whatever, so it then sends that money right back into the economy by using money that is already there. Instead of them pretending that they use it on infrastructure and military etc. When they actually are just hoarding it and wasting it on dumb fuck programs that do nothing for majority of people. And the idea that it encourages laziness could be partly true, but the amount would barely be enough to live on. So people would have to work if they wanted anything extra or better. And even if some people do get lazy with it. They are still going to be spending that money so it still goes back into the economy.
so if you raise taxes on the mega corporations wouldn’t they raise the prices of their products to cover it? That seems like the common sense thing to me. Although I guess people would just use that money to buy stuff from the mega corporations to. Either way I just think it creates a unneeded reliance on the government who usually sucks at their job

Didn’t you say you were a republican?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on November 10, 2020, 08:20:03 pm
Are we talking about the economy ?
Just break up the big monopolies when needed and we're all good
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 10, 2020, 10:26:25 pm
Isnt it proven that something like a UBI would massively boost the economy?
where?

Well big brains have done some big math and many think it would boost the economy. And it seems like common sense honestly. Take some of the tax money that mega corporations are paying and give some of it back to the middle and lower class. Then they spend that money on whatever, so it then sends that money right back into the economy by using money that is already there. Instead of them pretending that they use it on infrastructure and military etc. When they actually are just hoarding it and wasting it on dumb fuck programs that do nothing for majority of people. And the idea that it encourages laziness could be partly true, but the amount would barely be enough to live on. So people would have to work if they wanted anything extra or better. And even if some people do get lazy with it. They are still going to be spending that money so it still goes back into the economy.
so if you raise taxes on the mega corporations wouldn’t they raise the prices of their products to cover it? That seems like the common sense thing to me. Although I guess people would just use that money to buy stuff from the mega corporations to. Either way I just think it creates a unneeded reliance on the government who usually sucks at their job

Didn’t you say you were a republican?
The most cost effective UBI would be a UBI that replaces many existing welfare programs
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on November 11, 2020, 05:57:52 am
Isnt it proven that something like a UBI would massively boost the economy?
where?

Well big brains have done some big math and many think it would boost the economy. And it seems like common sense honestly. Take some of the tax money that mega corporations are paying and give some of it back to the middle and lower class. Then they spend that money on whatever, so it then sends that money right back into the economy by using money that is already there. Instead of them pretending that they use it on infrastructure and military etc. When they actually are just hoarding it and wasting it on dumb fuck programs that do nothing for majority of people. And the idea that it encourages laziness could be partly true, but the amount would barely be enough to live on. So people would have to work if they wanted anything extra or better. And even if some people do get lazy with it. They are still going to be spending that money so it still goes back into the economy.
so if you raise taxes on the mega corporations wouldn’t they raise the prices of their products to cover it? That seems like the common sense thing to me. Although I guess people would just use that money to buy stuff from the mega corporations to. Either way I just think it creates a unneeded reliance on the government who usually sucks at their job

Didn’t you say you were a republican?

Companies nowadays have grown much faster and outpaced wage growth especially on the lower end of the spectrum. Federal minimum wage hasn't been increased since may 2007 where it became 7.25 which should be a little over 9$ if it kept just pace with inflation and not economic growth.

Spoiler
(https://files.epi.org/charts/img/172791-21692.png)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on November 11, 2020, 06:13:34 am
Isnt it proven that something like a UBI would massively boost the economy?
where?

Well big brains have done some big math and many think it would boost the economy. And it seems like common sense honestly. Take some of the tax money that mega corporations are paying and give some of it back to the middle and lower class. Then they spend that money on whatever, so it then sends that money right back into the economy by using money that is already there. Instead of them pretending that they use it on infrastructure and military etc. When they actually are just hoarding it and wasting it on dumb fuck programs that do nothing for majority of people. And the idea that it encourages laziness could be partly true, but the amount would barely be enough to live on. So people would have to work if they wanted anything extra or better. And even if some people do get lazy with it. They are still going to be spending that money so it still goes back into the economy.
so if you raise taxes on the mega corporations wouldn’t they raise the prices of their products to cover it? That seems like the common sense thing to me. Although I guess people would just use that money to buy stuff from the mega corporations to. Either way I just think it creates a unneeded reliance on the government who usually sucks at their job

Didn’t you say you were a republican?

Companies nowadays have grown much faster and outpaced wage growth especially on the lower end of the spectrum. Federal minimum wage hasn't been increased since may 2007 where it became 7.25 which should be a little over 9$ if it kept just pace with inflation and not economic growth.

Spoiler
(https://files.epi.org/charts/img/172791-21692.png)
[close]
what jobs actually pay minimum wage?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on November 11, 2020, 06:31:45 am
Isnt it proven that something like a UBI would massively boost the economy?
where?

Well big brains have done some big math and many think it would boost the economy. And it seems like common sense honestly. Take some of the tax money that mega corporations are paying and give some of it back to the middle and lower class. Then they spend that money on whatever, so it then sends that money right back into the economy by using money that is already there. Instead of them pretending that they use it on infrastructure and military etc. When they actually are just hoarding it and wasting it on dumb fuck programs that do nothing for majority of people. And the idea that it encourages laziness could be partly true, but the amount would barely be enough to live on. So people would have to work if they wanted anything extra or better. And even if some people do get lazy with it. They are still going to be spending that money so it still goes back into the economy.
so if you raise taxes on the mega corporations wouldn’t they raise the prices of their products to cover it? That seems like the common sense thing to me. Although I guess people would just use that money to buy stuff from the mega corporations to. Either way I just think it creates a unneeded reliance on the government who usually sucks at their job

Didn’t you say you were a republican?

Companies nowadays have grown much faster and outpaced wage growth especially on the lower end of the spectrum. Federal minimum wage hasn't been increased since may 2007 where it became 7.25 which should be a little over 9$ if it kept just pace with inflation and not economic growth.

Spoiler
(https://files.epi.org/charts/img/172791-21692.png)
[close]
what jobs actually pay minimum wage?

i mean if ur argument is that minimum wage people don't work hard enough then whatever so be it but the productivity of American workers as a whole still hasn't kept pace with wage growth
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on November 11, 2020, 09:10:39 am
I find it astonishing that America didnt reform its voting system fucking ONCE since it got created. Its so incredibly backwards.


the dude who got 15 years of this
(https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/11/09/12/Angela-Merkel.jpg)
[close]
Thank you for reminding us that today, 82 years ago, Germans committed one of the worst crimes against fellow Germans leading up to World War 2 and the holocaust - although your picture is from 2018, marking the 80th anniversary. Never forget, always remember. Stand together as Germans against those who attempt to bring us down by terror and segregation. Besides that, let's remember that today 31 years ago the Wall came down, leading to a strong, unified, and historically grounded Germany which we can be proud of, just as stated by Cazasar and depicted by yourself. Cheers!

Spoiler
(https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/media.media.d4a36c4a-3149-4d89-b6a3-c14719edec4b.original1024.jpg)

One year later

(https://www.hdg.de/lemo/img_hd/bestand/objekte/deutscheeinheit/deutschlandfahne-vor-reichstag_foto_LEMO-F-6-182_uls.jpg)
[close]

#ProudToBeAGerman
cucked and krautpilled my dude  8)
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/x0I5TlT.png)(https://i.imgur.com/x8Fvgum.png)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on November 11, 2020, 04:02:03 pm
I find it astonishing that America didnt reform its voting system fucking ONCE since it got created. Its so incredibly backwards.


the dude who got 15 years of this
(https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/11/09/12/Angela-Merkel.jpg)
[close]
Thank you for reminding us that today, 82 years ago, Germans committed one of the worst crimes against fellow Germans leading up to World War 2 and the holocaust - although your picture is from 2018, marking the 80th anniversary. Never forget, always remember. Stand together as Germans against those who attempt to bring us down by terror and segregation. Besides that, let's remember that today 31 years ago the Wall came down, leading to a strong, unified, and historically grounded Germany which we can be proud of, just as stated by Cazasar and depicted by yourself. Cheers!

Spoiler
(https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/media.media.d4a36c4a-3149-4d89-b6a3-c14719edec4b.original1024.jpg)

One year later

(https://www.hdg.de/lemo/img_hd/bestand/objekte/deutscheeinheit/deutschlandfahne-vor-reichstag_foto_LEMO-F-6-182_uls.jpg)
[close]

#ProudToBeAGerman
cucked and krautpilled my dude  8)
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/x0I5TlT.png)(https://i.imgur.com/x8Fvgum.png)
[close]
hahahaha get out of you echo chamber dude
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on November 12, 2020, 01:12:34 am
I find it astonishing that America didnt reform its voting system fucking ONCE since it got created. Its so incredibly backwards.


the dude who got 15 years of this
(https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/11/09/12/Angela-Merkel.jpg)
[close]
Thank you for reminding us that today, 82 years ago, Germans committed one of the worst crimes against fellow Germans leading up to World War 2 and the holocaust - although your picture is from 2018, marking the 80th anniversary. Never forget, always remember. Stand together as Germans against those who attempt to bring us down by terror and segregation. Besides that, let's remember that today 31 years ago the Wall came down, leading to a strong, unified, and historically grounded Germany which we can be proud of, just as stated by Cazasar and depicted by yourself. Cheers!

Spoiler
(https://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/media.media.d4a36c4a-3149-4d89-b6a3-c14719edec4b.original1024.jpg)

One year later

(https://www.hdg.de/lemo/img_hd/bestand/objekte/deutscheeinheit/deutschlandfahne-vor-reichstag_foto_LEMO-F-6-182_uls.jpg)
[close]

#ProudToBeAGerman
cucked and krautpilled my dude  8)
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/x0I5TlT.png)(https://i.imgur.com/x8Fvgum.png)
[close]
hahahaha get out of you echo chamber dude
cope
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on November 12, 2020, 01:33:01 am
Whatever makes you happy son
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kraz on November 18, 2020, 01:10:39 pm
Trump is going to win
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on November 19, 2020, 04:05:03 pm
Trump is going to win

He lost weeks ago lul.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kraz on November 20, 2020, 01:13:33 pm
Trump is going to win

He lost weeks ago lul.
they will find things about the fraud dw
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on November 21, 2020, 05:53:10 am
Trump is going to win

He lost weeks ago lul.
they will find things about the fraud dw

lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: The British Spy on November 21, 2020, 05:58:25 am
Spoiler
(https://i.ibb.co/bJXQ8Vg/0-C3-EB242-2-BBD-45-CA-9-FCA-3475-DD0-C271-D.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on November 21, 2020, 10:04:39 am
Who is Casazar?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: bobertini on November 23, 2020, 02:07:40 pm
Who is Casazar?

some inactive *snip*
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sadman on November 23, 2020, 02:31:38 pm
trumb more like dumb
got em

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1FW36keZJw&t=
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dokletian on November 28, 2020, 12:01:31 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1FW36keZJw&t=

had to puke a little when Nigel Farage and Trump were on the same stage
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on November 28, 2020, 05:32:07 am
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1FW36keZJw&t=
[close]

had to puke a little when Nigel Farage and Trump were on the same stage
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmemepedia.ru%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F10%2F19-2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on December 01, 2020, 01:46:11 pm
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1FW36keZJw&t=
[close]

had to puke a little when Nigel Farage and Trump were on the same stage
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmemepedia.ru%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F10%2F19-2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

Nice meme except this is exactly the same if not worse among Trump cultists who believe in alternate facts.

Let's go inject som sanitizer bois! POG
I swear the election was rigged but I don't have any evidence and I've lost 40 ish lawsuits and won 1.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on December 01, 2020, 02:05:18 pm
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1FW36keZJw&t=
[close]

had to puke a little when Nigel Farage and Trump were on the same stage
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmemepedia.ru%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F10%2F19-2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

Nice meme except this is exactly the same if not worse among Trump cultists who believe in alternate facts.

Let's go inject som sanitizer bois! POG
I swear the election was rigged but I don't have any evidence and I've lost 40 ish lawsuits and won 1.
Its not worth arguing with that guy. There is no convincing someone who is this deep into Republican Bullshit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on December 01, 2020, 05:59:10 pm
Prime example of American media brainwashing not only Americans, but the entire West.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on December 01, 2020, 06:12:19 pm
Yes... I’m definitely a Republican lmao
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: The British Spy on December 03, 2020, 07:00:59 am
Prime example of American media brainwashing not only Americans, but the entire West.
(https://i.ibb.co/N6HmfJP/459487-C6-9-FF2-45-CB-91-D4-B6540312551-A.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sadman on December 03, 2020, 01:33:20 pm
pro gamers like me only get brainwashed by top tier news channels like fox news or CNN, smh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on December 03, 2020, 02:52:22 pm
true gamers only listen to Alex Jones
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on December 03, 2020, 04:09:09 pm
true gamers only listen to Alex Jones
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on December 03, 2020, 06:44:36 pm
true gamers only listen to Alex Jones

He really is a fascinating figure. His beliefs may be wack and are upheld by a cult, but the way he twists them into complex conspiracies is genuinely hilarious. Even if it's just a character, the money he has made provides him with the incentive to keep going.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on December 04, 2020, 03:02:08 am
true gamers only listen to Alex Jones

He really is a fascinating figure. His beliefs may be wack and are upheld by a cult, but the way he twists them into complex conspiracies is genuinely hilarious. Even if it's just a character, the money he has made provides him with the incentive to keep going.
people really act like he isn't spitting fax sometimes

THE WATER WAS REALLY MAKING THE FROGS GAY
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on December 04, 2020, 02:13:15 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoZOfa5WMA01Bkc?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on January 06, 2021, 11:14:04 pm
2021 is off to a great start. Coup on day 6! The writers really managed to up the stakes, I really thought they couldn't match last season!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on January 06, 2021, 11:16:54 pm
2021 is off to a great start. Coup on day 6! The writers really managed to up the stakes, I really thought they couldn't match last season!
this season gonna be fire
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Aurum on January 06, 2021, 11:29:24 pm
2021 is off to a great start. Coup on day 6! The writers really managed to up the stakes, I really thought they couldn't match last season!
this season gonna be fire

I don't know if I think the election was stolen or not, personally I think I may be leaning towards the fact that it wasn't but there hasn't been a real wide-spread investigation yet for me to go off of.

To me though, I understand why this is happening and it takes me back to when the George Floyd riots were happening. Circumstances are different but the mission is the same, to fight against a (as deemed) corrupt system. No amount of peaceful protesting will ever get rid of people who shouldn't be in power. This doesn't always have to negate to violence though. In my humble opinion civil disobedience is actually a fundamental part of any society - if justified.

Probably a hot take but I feel like the incorrect thing to do in a situation where you think the most powerful man in the world got his position illegally, or if you think that your ethnic group is being wrongfully persecuted, is to sit back and do nothing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on January 06, 2021, 11:47:26 pm
Electoral irregularities are a hallmark of elections across the Western world. Every country has "issues" with elections, but it's a spectrum - there are always going to be people investigated or arrested for electoral fraud. But allegations on that scale are so outlandishly unlikely. And if they were likely, there would be a judge somewhere, anywhere, who would allow these questions. Either the Democrats have blackmail on every judge who dismissed a Trump campaign suits or the lawsuits were desperate and unlikely

There is no coherent reason to doubt that Biden won the election, and so therefore there is no justification for desecration for the most recognizable symbol of democracy in the world. There is a serious lack of perspective and self-reflection in American party politics and this is just another example of it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on January 06, 2021, 11:48:49 pm
2021 is off to a great start. Coup on day 6! The writers really managed to up the stakes, I really thought they couldn't match last season!
this season gonna be fire

I don't know if I think the election was stolen or not, personally I think I may be leaning towards the fact that it wasn't but there hasn't been a real wide-spread investigation yet for me to go off of.

To me though, I understand why this is happening and it takes me back to when the George Floyd riots were happening. Circumstances are different but the mission is the same, to fight against a (as deemed) corrupt system. No amount of peaceful protesting will ever get rid of people who shouldn't be in power. This doesn't always have to negate to violence though. In my humble opinion civil disobedience is actually a fundamental part of any society - if justified.

Probably a hot take but I feel like the incorrect thing to do in a situation where you think the most powerful man in the world got his position illegally, or if you think that your ethnic group is being wrongfully persecuted, is to sit back and do nothing.

This is happening because our beloved commander-in-chief has been revving his base up into a frenzy that can't be reasoned with. Spending the last four years legitimizing batshit insane conspiracy theories in order promote a post-truth society takes it toll.

Trump didn't do it because he actually thinks he lost. He is doing it because he realizes that his political Ponzi scheme is about to collapse right on top of him. His supporters, the GOP, and half of America would suffer an identity crisis if he conceded now. Why give up when your base is naïve enough to be this invested and willing to donate millions towards a lost cause? This is the death-knell of conservative identity politics.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Aurum on January 07, 2021, 12:10:39 am
2021 is off to a great start. Coup on day 6! The writers really managed to up the stakes, I really thought they couldn't match last season!
this season gonna be fire

I don't know if I think the election was stolen or not, personally I think I may be leaning towards the fact that it wasn't but there hasn't been a real wide-spread investigation yet for me to go off of.

To me though, I understand why this is happening and it takes me back to when the George Floyd riots were happening. Circumstances are different but the mission is the same, to fight against a (as deemed) corrupt system. No amount of peaceful protesting will ever get rid of people who shouldn't be in power. This doesn't always have to negate to violence though. In my humble opinion civil disobedience is actually a fundamental part of any society - if justified.

Probably a hot take but I feel like the incorrect thing to do in a situation where you think the most powerful man in the world got his position illegally, or if you think that your ethnic group is being wrongfully persecuted, is to sit back and do nothing.

This is happening because our beloved commander-in-chief has been revving his base up into a frenzy that can't be reasoned with. Spending the last four years legitimizing batshit insane conspiracy theories in order promote a post-truth society takes it toll.

Trump didn't do it because he actually thinks he lost. He is doing it because he realizes that his political Ponzi scheme is about to collapse right on top of him. His supporters, the GOP, and half of America would suffer an identity crisis if he conceded now. Why give up when your base is naïve enough to be this invested and willing to donate millions towards a lost cause? This is the death-knell of conservative identity politics.

I agree with you & Theodin, like I said I don't really think that the election was stolen.

My main point with my post was to note that civil disobedience & rioting is a natural thing within a society and can and can not be justified at times. While I don't agree with the Capitol takeover I do understand why it is happening. A lot of frustration has been brewing the past couple of years, partly natural and partly expedited by Trump. I'm not too sure if the Capitol takeover is the culmination of this frustration, we'll have to see.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on January 07, 2021, 12:17:57 am
imagine thinking your vote matters lmao
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~Midnight~ on January 07, 2021, 06:39:00 am
#FSEParty2036
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on January 11, 2021, 01:33:57 am
imagine thinking your vote matters lmao

Imagine being this fucking stupid.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on January 11, 2021, 05:11:52 pm
imagine thinking your vote matters lmao

Imagine being this fucking stupid.
look at his programming going completely haywire, the modern Nordic man. SAD!
(https://i.imgur.com/cqXAAQl.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dokletian on January 11, 2021, 05:42:12 pm
what
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on January 11, 2021, 08:19:56 pm
what
Dont worry, he is merely pretending to be retarded!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on January 11, 2021, 09:19:01 pm
remember lads, subscribe to pewdiepie :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on January 12, 2021, 01:48:16 am
(https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/583089f4737a8e61abb0186b/3x)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on January 21, 2021, 12:19:03 am
Hey nothing went bad
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on January 21, 2021, 12:20:07 am
can trump still win?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on January 21, 2021, 01:35:31 am
can trump still win?
bah gawd that's biden's music
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on January 21, 2021, 10:22:36 pm
can trump still win?

I can't tell if you're being serious.
But if you are then no he hasn't been able to win since he lost the election back in november.
He never had any evidence of fraud so he was basically just bullshitting for two months and for some reason people kept believing it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: yecgga on January 21, 2021, 10:33:34 pm
Bas ampüle muğa goyim
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on January 22, 2021, 06:10:34 am
can trump still win?

rip dreams
rip USA
rip democracy
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on January 22, 2021, 09:56:10 am
can trump still win?

rip dreams
rip USA
rip democracy
SAD!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Skaen on January 22, 2021, 10:00:42 am
I haven't seen any pages anymore before this one, so I am sorry if this is already talked about. But what do you guys about these "Great Reset"? The new world order that is trying to build its place. I feel it's actually believable that the governments of this world try to keep people indoors and that this Pandemic is the perfect moment to do so. Because if you go outside, you'll get to pay 250 EUR to the Police if it's for unnecessary business, atleast here in Belgium. Do you guys think this new world order will actually take place, if it's propoganda, if it is good or bad for us? Because ofcourse when you look at their website they speak of great things, but I don't know if it will be great for every other citizen as well.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Janne on January 22, 2021, 10:03:30 am
I haven't seen any pages anymore before this one, so I am sorry if this is already talked about. But what do you guys about these "Great Reset"? The new world order that is trying to build its place. I feel it's actually believable that the governments of this world try to keep people indoors and that this Pandemic is the perfect moment to do so. Because if you go outside, you'll get to pay 250 EUR to the Police if it's for unnecessary business, atleast here in Belgium. Do you guys think this new world order will actually take place, if it's propoganda, if it is good or bad for us? Because ofcourse when you look at their website they speak of great things, but I don't know if it will be great for every other citizen as well.

https://www.infowars.com/

here you go mate, the proper website for people like you
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Snowwi on January 22, 2021, 10:06:05 am
What the actual fuck
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Skaen on January 22, 2021, 10:08:26 am
I haven't seen any pages anymore before this one, so I am sorry if this is already talked about. But what do you guys about these "Great Reset"? The new world order that is trying to build its place. I feel it's actually believable that the governments of this world try to keep people indoors and that this Pandemic is the perfect moment to do so. Because if you go outside, you'll get to pay 250 EUR to the Police if it's for unnecessary business, atleast here in Belgium. Do you guys think this new world order will actually take place, if it's propoganda, if it is good or bad for us? Because ofcourse when you look at their website they speak of great things, but I don't know if it will be great for every other citizen as well.

https://www.infowars.com/

here you go mate, the proper website for people like you
Would be appreciated if you won't act like a clown for once.

To those who are wondering, I'm talking about this. https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/

Edit: Here is another article, https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/now-is-the-time-for-a-great-reset/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: StockholmDE on January 22, 2021, 11:58:19 am
I haven't seen any pages anymore before this one, so I am sorry if this is already talked about. But what do you guys about these "Great Reset"? The new world order that is trying to build its place. I feel it's actually believable that the governments of this world try to keep people indoors and that this Pandemic is the perfect moment to do so. Because if you go outside, you'll get to pay 250 EUR to the Police if it's for unnecessary business, atleast here in Belgium. Do you guys think this new world order will actually take place, if it's propoganda, if it is good or bad for us? Because ofcourse when you look at their website they speak of great things, but I don't know if it will be great for every other citizen as well.
You are actually lost
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on January 22, 2021, 02:00:38 pm
You know it’s very possible to worry about the multinational making vast economic policy changes while not being a conspiracy theorist! He literally sourced from the World Economic Forum!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Skaen on January 22, 2021, 03:17:09 pm
Look I'll explain it to you guys, since it seems y'all cannot read. I'm not saying I believe anything of this, I just wanted to ASK what you guys THINK about it. I did say it SOUNDS believable but not that I BELIEVE IT'S ALL TRUE. I just heard this Great reset pop up and I just don't know much about this. I'm not a political wannabe smartass like ya'll folks but I'd like to know what's going on.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on January 22, 2021, 03:36:01 pm
Anything is possible after Biden's win
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on January 22, 2021, 11:03:39 pm
There are two separate issues here Skaenn.
One is the notion that the nations of the world, including international scientific and medical fields want to keep people locked inside, causing trillions of dollars of economic damage, somehow manufacturing both a plausible threat and killing off vast numbers of people through a mechanism which spreads much like a virus. If you believe that you're more paranoid than many psychiatric patients I see on the regular.

If you believe that rich people and those in power are profiteering off of an international catastrophe and are allowing people to die on vast scales for financial and political profit then I think you're pretty sensible.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on January 23, 2021, 03:44:58 am
There are two separate issues here Skaenn.
One is the notion that the nations of the world, including international scientific and medical fields want to keep people locked inside, causing trillions of dollars of economic damage, somehow manufacturing both a plausible threat and killing off vast numbers of people through a mechanism which spreads much like a virus. If you believe that you're more paranoid than many psychiatric patients I see on the regular.

If you believe that rich people and those in power are profiteering off of an international catastrophe and are allowing people to die on vast scales for financial and political profit then I think you're pretty sensible.
yes
it is also sensible to believe that people in powerful positions are using the economic catastrophe to propose ways to implement different economic policies with the admirable attempt at a different (and what they hope is better!) economy at the end of it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on February 03, 2021, 03:35:45 pm
Anything is possible after Biden's win

Wtf do you mean? Biden was leading in virtually every poll he was expected to win.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on February 03, 2021, 06:22:37 pm
I'm just glad that I don't live in California right now.  8)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 03, 2021, 06:23:14 pm
I'm just glad that I don't live in California right now.  8)
What is happening?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on February 03, 2021, 07:04:06 pm
Anything is possible after Biden's win

Wtf do you mean? Biden was leading in virtually every poll he was expected to win.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on February 03, 2021, 07:23:20 pm
I'm just glad that I don't live in California right now.  8)
What is happening?

Our governor is a moron that contradicts himself at every turn.

Virus cases keep fluctuating since the state has no actual plan.

Wildfires are getting worse and no one is doing anything to address it.

Smelt, a species of fish that is commonly used to indicate overall environmental health in the Delta (and California as a whole), continue to spiral towards functional extinction.

Homeless people. Everywhere.


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Glenn on February 03, 2021, 08:36:17 pm
I'm just glad that I don't live in California right now.  8)
What is happening?

Our governor is a moron that contradicts himself at every turn.

Virus cases keep fluctuating since the state has no actual plan.

Wildfires are getting worse and no one is doing anything to address it.

Smelt, a species of fish that is commonly used to indicate overall environmental health in the Delta (and California as a whole), continue to spiral towards functional extinction.

Homeless people. Everywhere.

yeah pretty much
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 03, 2021, 10:13:52 pm
I'm just glad that I don't live in California right now.  8)
What is happening?

Our governor is a moron that contradicts himself at every turn.

Virus cases keep fluctuating since the state has no actual plan.

Wildfires are getting worse and no one is doing anything to address it.

Smelt, a species of fish that is commonly used to indicate overall environmental health in the Delta (and California as a whole), continue to spiral towards functional extinction.

Homeless people. Everywhere.

yeah pretty much
OOF

Wait I remember I watched a Youtube Vid from a German living in California talking about how shit the state has become.

Is there a particular Reason why your politicians dont do shit against those issues?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on February 03, 2021, 11:17:50 pm
I'm just glad that I don't live in California right now.  8)
What is happening?

Our governor is a moron that contradicts himself at every turn.

Virus cases keep fluctuating since the state has no actual plan.

Wildfires are getting worse and no one is doing anything to address it.

Smelt, a species of fish that is commonly used to indicate overall environmental health in the Delta (and California as a whole), continue to spiral towards functional extinction.

Homeless people. Everywhere.

yeah pretty much
OOF

Wait I remember I watched a Youtube Vid from a German living in California talking about how shit the state has become.

Is there a particular Reason why your politicians dont do shit against those issues?


Much like the rest of the the country, we can’t implement effective precautions towards the virus since social and economic safety nets are extremely barebones. The federal government can not agree on any approach without it turning into a partisan bloodbath, effectively ensuring that no meaningful aid will be provided. This in turn leaves the state governments with no choice but to end the lockdowns so that more businesses don’t get permanently closed.


On top of that, you have rent moratoriums ending in a few months, leaving many with no choice but to move in with relatives/friends or end up on the streets. Of course, this could be avoided if the rents were simply suspended, but that would go against their ethical code of malignantly preying on the poor and marginalized till every last cent is squeeze out of them.


Environmentally speaking, it simply isn’t profitable and/or practical enough yet for the switch to more sustainable energy. You have bastards like Exxon who funnel millions into worldwide disinformation campaigns meant to discredit wind, air, and solar so that their competition remains non-existent.


Homelessness? I don’t know the answer to that one. We’ve thrown billions at the issue and most of it goes unspent or towards pork barrel projects that do nothing but provide positive PR for its respective figurehead. I suppose a good first step would be to stop treating them like parasites and props for gubernatorial ads.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 04, 2021, 12:22:53 am
Quote
Environmentally speaking, it simply isn’t profitable and/or practical enough yet for the switch to more sustainable energy. You have bastards like Exxon who funnel millions into worldwide disinformation campaigns meant to discredit wind, air, and solar so that their competition remains non-existent.
California has an incredible amount of solar power generation. unfortunately the technology doesn't exist to make it a) worth the cost and b) consistent enough to power the grid. there are a lot of examples of jurisdictions that spend a lot of money and time trying to make their grids run on renewables but it doesn't work because renewables can't provide baseline supply to match demand changes

the "exxon spends all this money in environmental disinformation" is a position straight out of 2005. at this point, the anti-fossil fuel movement is a multi billion dollar industry with influence and reach 10x the scale of anything pro fossil fuel. especially in a state like California, the influence pro-renewables groups have is wayyy bigger than Exxon or any group
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on February 04, 2021, 01:12:32 am
Quote
Environmentally speaking, it simply isn’t profitable and/or practical enough yet for the switch to more sustainable energy. You have bastards like Exxon who funnel millions into worldwide disinformation campaigns meant to discredit wind, air, and solar so that their competition remains non-existent.
California has an incredible amount of solar power generation. unfortunately the technology doesn't exist to make it a) worth the cost and b) consistent enough to power the grid. there are a lot of examples of jurisdictions that spend a lot of money and time trying to make their grids run on renewables but it doesn't work because renewables can't provide baseline supply to match demand changes

the "exxon spends all this money in environmental disinformation" is a position straight out of 2005. at this point, the anti-fossil fuel movement is a multi billion dollar industry with influence and reach 10x the scale of anything pro fossil fuel. especially in a state like California, the influence pro-renewables groups have is wayyy bigger than Exxon or any group

You’re right in that the state has a lot of renewable sources (almost 40% last I checked) but I simply do not buy the government’s statements that they are taking the issues that fossil fuels present seriously. The time to act was 20 years ago. I hope you’re right in the sense of their influence, but it better pick up its pace in a world that is still run largely by fossil.

Even if the Exxon point is a bit outdated, the relevance still holds. They knew in the 80s that emissions needed to drop and still kept going. I try to avoid going down the deep ecology route, but if the reports are right and planet turns into a hellhole, then justified or not they are going to be as equally reviled as some of the biggest mass murderers in history.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 04, 2021, 01:42:42 am
Quote
Environmentally speaking, it simply isn’t profitable and/or practical enough yet for the switch to more sustainable energy. You have bastards like Exxon who funnel millions into worldwide disinformation campaigns meant to discredit wind, air, and solar so that their competition remains non-existent.
California has an incredible amount of solar power generation. unfortunately the technology doesn't exist to make it a) worth the cost and b) consistent enough to power the grid. there are a lot of examples of jurisdictions that spend a lot of money and time trying to make their grids run on renewables but it doesn't work because renewables can't provide baseline supply to match demand changes

the "exxon spends all this money in environmental disinformation" is a position straight out of 2005. at this point, the anti-fossil fuel movement is a multi billion dollar industry with influence and reach 10x the scale of anything pro fossil fuel. especially in a state like California, the influence pro-renewables groups have is wayyy bigger than Exxon or any group

You’re right in that the state has a lot of renewable sources (almost 40% last I checked) but I simply do not buy the government’s statements that they are taking the issues that fossil fuels present seriously. The time to act was 20 years ago. I hope you’re right in the sense of their influence, but it better pick up its pace in a world that is still run largely by fossil.

Even if the Exxon point is a bit outdated, the relevance still holds. They knew in the 80s that emissions needed to drop and still kept going. I try to avoid going down the deep ecology route, but if the reports are right and planet turns into a hellhole, then justified or not they are going to be as equally reviled as some of the biggest mass murderers in history.
the most effective way to reduce fossil fuel emissions from power generation is invest in nuclear generation. this is not disputed, but the anti-nuclear lobby is very powerful. i mean, they could also invest in clean tech and encourage innovation while admitting that electricity is only effectively generated by fossil fuel sources, but since that's not ideologically helpful enough they won't

at this point emissions are less of a problem than loud voices make them out to be. models regularly run warm and the lower rcp's are the most likely. instead of spending millions on misguided climate actions or donating to already wealthy groups the gov could, just maybe, invest in getting better at forest fire management or something like that
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MikeyBruh on February 04, 2021, 02:22:45 am
Quote
Environmentally speaking, it simply isn’t profitable and/or practical enough yet for the switch to more sustainable energy. You have bastards like Exxon who funnel millions into worldwide disinformation campaigns meant to discredit wind, air, and solar so that their competition remains non-existent.
California has an incredible amount of solar power generation. unfortunately the technology doesn't exist to make it a) worth the cost and b) consistent enough to power the grid. there are a lot of examples of jurisdictions that spend a lot of money and time trying to make their grids run on renewables but it doesn't work because renewables can't provide baseline supply to match demand changes

the "exxon spends all this money in environmental disinformation" is a position straight out of 2005. at this point, the anti-fossil fuel movement is a multi billion dollar industry with influence and reach 10x the scale of anything pro fossil fuel. especially in a state like California, the influence pro-renewables groups have is wayyy bigger than Exxon or any group

You’re right in that the state has a lot of renewable sources (almost 40% last I checked) but I simply do not buy the government’s statements that they are taking the issues that fossil fuels present seriously. The time to act was 20 years ago. I hope you’re right in the sense of their influence, but it better pick up its pace in a world that is still run largely by fossil.

Even if the Exxon point is a bit outdated, the relevance still holds. They knew in the 80s that emissions needed to drop and still kept going. I try to avoid going down the deep ecology route, but if the reports are right and planet turns into a hellhole, then justified or not they are going to be as equally reviled as some of the biggest mass murderers in history.
the most effective way to reduce fossil fuel emissions from power generation is invest in nuclear generation. this is not disputed, but the anti-nuclear lobby is very powerful. i mean, they could also invest in clean tech and encourage innovation while admitting that electricity is only effectively generated by fossil fuel sources, but since that's not ideologically helpful enough they won't

at this point emissions are less of a problem than loud voices make them out to be. models regularly run warm and the lower rcp's are the most likely. instead of spending millions on misguided climate actions or donating to already wealthy groups the gov could, just maybe, invest in getting better at forest fire management or something like that
or you could just
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/RemarkableSomeBandicoot-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ShintoSkookum on February 04, 2021, 02:24:08 am
One of the biggest raisins fossil fuels consistently outpace renewables is due to the sheer amount of funding they receive compared to renewables (almost double in R&D from the US gov). The US provides about 20 billion dollars annually to fossil fuel companies for extraction, exploration, development, etc. Renewables receive only a FRACTION of the amount of money the fossil fuel industry gets. In addition, the tax breaks given are only temporary. If we remove the temporary tax breaks, the fossil fuel companies receive 7 times as many incentives as renewables do. Of course, this is likely to change as more libtards get elected, and has changed greatly over the last decade or so. I just hope it isn't too little too late.

As for nuclear energy, I agree it is currently probably our best bet. However, we do need to be really really careful with it. We do not have a way to properly dispose of nuclear waste, contrary to what many nuclear energy enthusiasts say. Throwing it on a mountain and calling it a day or putting the barrels in the ocean isn't exactly the best idea. Then again, fracking for the Marcellus and Utica shales also produce a shitton of radioactive material that the companies deny (I wonder why literally every single landfill in Ohio is far more radioactive than other states and why WV and PA ship their shale waste there ??? ???).

also climate change is real xd

fuck i feel like a libtard
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on February 04, 2021, 02:47:23 am
Blame dems
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 04, 2021, 03:15:50 am
One of the biggest raisins fossil fuels consistently outpace renewables is due to the sheer amount of funding they receive compared to renewables (almost double in R&D from the US gov). The US provides about 20 billion dollars annually to fossil fuel companies for extraction, exploration, development, etc. Renewables receive only a FRACTION of the amount of money the fossil fuel industry gets. In addition, the tax breaks given are only temporary. If we remove the temporary tax breaks, the fossil fuel companies receive 7 times as many incentives as renewables do. Of course, this is likely to change as more libtards get elected, and has changed greatly over the last decade or so. I just hope it isn't too little too late.

As for nuclear energy, I agree it is currently probably our best bet. However, we do need to be really really careful with it. We do not have a way to properly dispose of nuclear waste, contrary to what many nuclear energy enthusiasts say. Throwing it on a mountain and calling it a day or putting the barrels in the ocean isn't exactly the best idea. Then again, fracking for the Marcellus and Utica shales also produce a shitton of radioactive material that the companies deny (I wonder why literally every single landfill in Ohio is far more radioactive than other states and why WV and PA ship their shale waste there ??? ???).

also climate change is real xd

fuck i feel like a libtard
it's not too late, anyone who tells you that is misinformed
that is the downside of nuclear. however if you want consistent baseload power you're going to get it either from nuclear or renewables. good luck getting that from other sources
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on February 04, 2021, 04:05:55 am
gotta love some good old fashion coal
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Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 04, 2021, 05:25:00 am
(https://i.imgur.com/rhXRbHc.png)
You're all being fooled by the same god you morons, The Pyramids, Stonehenge, all the other mysteries of the world. built by those who were instructed by a superior being who takes many shapes and forms depending on the civilization he is currently influencing. This man in his truest form is an extra terrestrial from a species which are the creators of our own. His truest form came as Merlin but is also known as Zeus and Odin. Stonehenge was built for his portal from his world to ours. A time traveling space wizard in layman's terms. After the decay of Stonehenge there was no way for him to interface with our world directly anymore, and his species has since forgot about us. We are now a godless planet with no direction from the great creator to keep the balance of power. This is why these conspiracy theorists talk about the "Lizard People". They are the rising faction and will soon control us all through the power of LGBTQ approved COVID vaccines. Brace yourselves gentleman
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on February 04, 2021, 05:30:35 am
One of the biggest raisins fossil fuels consistently outpace renewables is due to the sheer amount of funding they receive compared to renewables (almost double in R&D from the US gov). The US provides about 20 billion dollars annually to fossil fuel companies for extraction, exploration, development, etc. Renewables receive only a FRACTION of the amount of money the fossil fuel industry gets. In addition, the tax breaks given are only temporary. If we remove the temporary tax breaks, the fossil fuel companies receive 7 times as many incentives as renewables do. Of course, this is likely to change as more libtards get elected, and has changed greatly over the last decade or so. I just hope it isn't too little too late.

As for nuclear energy, I agree it is currently probably our best bet. However, we do need to be really really careful with it. We do not have a way to properly dispose of nuclear waste, contrary to what many nuclear energy enthusiasts say. Throwing it on a mountain and calling it a day or putting the barrels in the ocean isn't exactly the best idea. Then again, fracking for the Marcellus and Utica shales also produce a shitton of radioactive material that the companies deny (I wonder why literally every single landfill in Ohio is far more radioactive than other states and why WV and PA ship their shale waste there ??? ???).

also climate change is real xd

fuck i feel like a libtard
it's not too late, anyone who tells you that is misinformed
that is the downside of nuclear. however if you want consistent baseload power you're going to get it either from nuclear or renewables. good luck getting that from other sources
Ideal would be Nuclear and hydro with natural gas for peak/load following until battery tech catches up but we don't have a lot more rivers we can dam and there have been a number of developments in nuclear technology(more efficient reactors/using more reprocessed fuel and fusion may actually be a thing in 10 years maybe) but of course storage of spent fuel and radioactive materials has been torpedoed by two administrations so dry cask and spent fuel pools are as good as we're going to get until we become sensible and actually fund a solution. Literally instead of half assing one solution full ass one please thank you! Actually fuck coal though no cap
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ShintoSkookum on February 04, 2021, 05:44:53 am
One of the biggest raisins fossil fuels consistently outpace renewables is due to the sheer amount of funding they receive compared to renewables (almost double in R&D from the US gov). The US provides about 20 billion dollars annually to fossil fuel companies for extraction, exploration, development, etc. Renewables receive only a FRACTION of the amount of money the fossil fuel industry gets. In addition, the tax breaks given are only temporary. If we remove the temporary tax breaks, the fossil fuel companies receive 7 times as many incentives as renewables do. Of course, this is likely to change as more libtards get elected, and has changed greatly over the last decade or so. I just hope it isn't too little too late.

As for nuclear energy, I agree it is currently probably our best bet. However, we do need to be really really careful with it. We do not have a way to properly dispose of nuclear waste, contrary to what many nuclear energy enthusiasts say. Throwing it on a mountain and calling it a day or putting the barrels in the ocean isn't exactly the best idea. Then again, fracking for the Marcellus and Utica shales also produce a shitton of radioactive material that the companies deny (I wonder why literally every single landfill in Ohio is far more radioactive than other states and why WV and PA ship their shale waste there ??? ???).

also climate change is real xd

fuck i feel like a libtard
it's not too late, anyone who tells you that is misinformed
that is the downside of nuclear. however if you want consistent baseload power you're going to get it either from nuclear or renewables. good luck getting that from other sources
Ideal would be Nuclear and hydro with natural gas for peak/load following until battery tech catches up but we don't have a lot more rivers we can dam and there have been a number of developments in nuclear technology(more efficient reactors/using more reprocessed fuel and fusion may actually be a thing in 10 years maybe) but of course storage of spent fuel and radioactive materials has been torpedoed by two administrations so dry cask and spent fuel pools are as good as we're going to get until we become sensible and actually fund a solution. Literally instead of half assing one solution full ass one please thank you! Actually fuck coal though no cap
thorium reactors would be most efficient instead of uranium. its literally overall better but getting to thorium is more difficult than uranium and the mining will still result in pollution, altho not nearly as much as fossil fuels. it produces way less nuclear waste(e) but still produces it and its so annoying we dont have a way to properly dispose of it yet. hopefully renewables can catch up soon even though wind power is kinda gay due to the amount of land needed

why is energy so difficult
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 04, 2021, 06:01:44 am
Energy is mad difficult
and almost every Western country has a messy power grid
Electricity lifted the world out of poverty which is great but the scale of grid systems these days is just immense
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on February 04, 2021, 06:12:28 am
One of the biggest raisins fossil fuels consistently outpace renewables is due to the sheer amount of funding they receive compared to renewables (almost double in R&D from the US gov). The US provides about 20 billion dollars annually to fossil fuel companies for extraction, exploration, development, etc. Renewables receive only a FRACTION of the amount of money the fossil fuel industry gets. In addition, the tax breaks given are only temporary. If we remove the temporary tax breaks, the fossil fuel companies receive 7 times as many incentives as renewables do. Of course, this is likely to change as more libtards get elected, and has changed greatly over the last decade or so. I just hope it isn't too little too late.

As for nuclear energy, I agree it is currently probably our best bet. However, we do need to be really really careful with it. We do not have a way to properly dispose of nuclear waste, contrary to what many nuclear energy enthusiasts say. Throwing it on a mountain and calling it a day or putting the barrels in the ocean isn't exactly the best idea. Then again, fracking for the Marcellus and Utica shales also produce a shitton of radioactive material that the companies deny (I wonder why literally every single landfill in Ohio is far more radioactive than other states and why WV and PA ship their shale waste there ??? ???).

also climate change is real xd

fuck i feel like a libtard
it's not too late, anyone who tells you that is misinformed
that is the downside of nuclear. however if you want consistent baseload power you're going to get it either from nuclear or renewables. good luck getting that from other sources
Ideal would be Nuclear and hydro with natural gas for peak/load following until battery tech catches up but we don't have a lot more rivers we can dam and there have been a number of developments in nuclear technology(more efficient reactors/using more reprocessed fuel and fusion may actually be a thing in 10 years maybe) but of course storage of spent fuel and radioactive materials has been torpedoed by two administrations so dry cask and spent fuel pools are as good as we're going to get until we become sensible and actually fund a solution. Literally instead of half assing one solution full ass one please thank you! Actually fuck coal though no cap
thorium reactors would be most efficient instead of uranium. its literally overall better but getting to thorium is more difficult than uranium and the mining will still result in pollution, altho not nearly as much as fossil fuels. it produces way less nuclear waste(e) but still produces it and its so annoying we dont have a way to properly dispose of it yet. hopefully renewables can catch up soon even though wind power is kinda gay due to the amount of land needed

why is energy so difficult

Companies --$$$--> Politicians

also NASA please stop getting fucked by boeing
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Aurum on February 04, 2021, 06:36:24 am
I'm just glad that I don't live in California right now.  8)
What is happening?

Our governor is a moron that contradicts himself at every turn.

Virus cases keep fluctuating since the state has no actual plan.

Wildfires are getting worse and no one is doing anything to address it.

Smelt, a species of fish that is commonly used to indicate overall environmental health in the Delta (and California as a whole), continue to spiral towards functional extinction.

Homeless people. Everywhere.

yeah pretty much
OOF

Wait I remember I watched a Youtube Vid from a German living in California talking about how shit the state has become.

Is there a particular Reason why your politicians dont do shit against those issues?
Homelessness? I don’t know the answer to that one. We’ve thrown billions at the issue and most of it goes unspent or towards pork barrel projects that do nothing but provide positive PR for its respective figurehead. I suppose a good first step would be to stop treating them like parasites and props for gubernatorial ads.

I've been thinking about this issue quite often considering the fact that I live in an area with a high amount of homelessness. I think that one of the main problems we have when trying to tackle this issue is how the general public views homeless people. Rather than trying to elevate the financial status of our fellow Americans, we, as a nation, would rather look at these people with contempt. I think I noticed this the most when driving through a "poorish" neighborhood and my wife expressed some negative feelings. I know other people are like this as well. Based on what I've seen personally, I believe that there is a serious class issue within the U.S. I understand that a lot of homeless people are not good people, or are homeless because of reasons within their control. However, I do believe that the majority of these people can be useful for something, and should at least, have the opportunity to fix or change their life.

Anyways, I'm not a socialist necessarily, but I believe this issue stems from the fact that our country is obsessed with profits and consumerism, rather than comradery and community. This is a late stage capitalism issue and imo, is solved by a cultural change, rather than some sort of change by legislature initially. However, when the time comes, I would personally implement some sort of large-scale "homeless employment" that would consist of small or large scale public projects. Of course, this has been done pretty often. So  I would try to implement measures to make this semi-permanent. Providing employees a place to eat and sleep, in range within their work site. I've toyed around with the idea of tiny house villages (lol) or perhaps reclaiming abandoned buildings and repurposing them into housing for homeless employees. However, this could only be achieved if freed up some of our budget from other agencies. The first one that comes to mind is the military, but I would be weary of removing too much from the defense budget. As a good 60% of it is actually useful and not beaurucratic junk.

I'm drunk while writing this so I'm not too sure if my post made sense but i'll post the main point down here.

I believe that Americans have a serious cultural problem that can only be solved by becoming more collectivist. More beneficial and semi-permanent social programs need to be implemented to to give the economically disadvantaged a serious chance to reclaim their role in society. However, measures also need to be implemented to make sure that this system isn't abused/used by people that do not deserve it.

ok thanks
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 04, 2021, 03:37:03 pm
I'm just glad that I don't live in California right now.  8)
What is happening?

Our governor is a moron that contradicts himself at every turn.

Virus cases keep fluctuating since the state has no actual plan.

Wildfires are getting worse and no one is doing anything to address it.

Smelt, a species of fish that is commonly used to indicate overall environmental health in the Delta (and California as a whole), continue to spiral towards functional extinction.

Homeless people. Everywhere.

yeah pretty much
OOF

Wait I remember I watched a Youtube Vid from a German living in California talking about how shit the state has become.

Is there a particular Reason why your politicians dont do shit against those issues?
Homelessness? I don’t know the answer to that one. We’ve thrown billions at the issue and most of it goes unspent or towards pork barrel projects that do nothing but provide positive PR for its respective figurehead. I suppose a good first step would be to stop treating them like parasites and props for gubernatorial ads.

I've been thinking about this issue quite often considering the fact that I live in an area with a high amount of homelessness. I think that one of the main problems we have when trying to tackle this issue is how the general public views homeless people. Rather than trying to elevate the financial status of our fellow Americans, we, as a nation, would rather look at these people with contempt. I think I noticed this the most when driving through a "poorish" neighborhood and my wife expressed some negative feelings. I know other people are like this as well. Based on what I've seen personally, I believe that there is a serious class issue within the U.S. I understand that a lot of homeless people are not good people, or are homeless because of reasons within their control. However, I do believe that the majority of these people can be useful for something, and should at least, have the opportunity to fix or change their life.

Anyways, I'm not a socialist necessarily, but I believe this issue stems from the fact that our country is obsessed with profits and consumerism, rather than comradery and community. This is a late stage capitalism issue and imo, is solved by a cultural change, rather than some sort of change by legislature initially. However, when the time comes, I would personally implement some sort of large-scale "homeless employment" that would consist of small or large scale public projects. Of course, this has been done pretty often. So  I would try to implement measures to make this semi-permanent. Providing employees a place to eat and sleep, in range within their work site. I've toyed around with the idea of tiny house villages (lol) or perhaps reclaiming abandoned buildings and repurposing them into housing for homeless employees. However, this could only be achieved if freed up some of our budget from other agencies. The first one that comes to mind is the military, but I would be weary of removing too much from the defense budget. As a good 60% of it is actually useful and not beaurucratic junk.

I'm drunk while writing this so I'm not too sure if my post made sense but i'll post the main point down here.

I believe that Americans have a serious cultural problem that can only be solved by becoming more collectivist. More beneficial and semi-permanent social programs need to be implemented to to give the economically disadvantaged a serious chance to reclaim their role in society. However, measures also need to be implemented to make sure that this system isn't abused/used by people that do not deserve it.

ok thanks
Hello my fellow National Socialist I can spot you from a mile away with those Hitler ideas
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on February 04, 2021, 03:58:31 pm
Pollution is caused by cows
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on February 04, 2021, 04:17:10 pm
Pollution is caused by cows
I mean red meat farming is a large chunk of the overall so you’re right
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on February 04, 2021, 04:18:34 pm
Pollution is caused by cows
I mean red meat farming is a large chunk of the overall so you’re right
No. All pollution is caused by cows
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Aurum on February 05, 2021, 01:58:11 am
I'm just glad that I don't live in California right now.  8)
What is happening?

Our governor is a moron that contradicts himself at every turn.

Virus cases keep fluctuating since the state has no actual plan.

Wildfires are getting worse and no one is doing anything to address it.

Smelt, a species of fish that is commonly used to indicate overall environmental health in the Delta (and California as a whole), continue to spiral towards functional extinction.

Homeless people. Everywhere.

yeah pretty much
OOF

Wait I remember I watched a Youtube Vid from a German living in California talking about how shit the state has become.

Is there a particular Reason why your politicians dont do shit against those issues?
Homelessness? I don’t know the answer to that one. We’ve thrown billions at the issue and most of it goes unspent or towards pork barrel projects that do nothing but provide positive PR for its respective figurehead. I suppose a good first step would be to stop treating them like parasites and props for gubernatorial ads.

I've been thinking about this issue quite often considering the fact that I live in an area with a high amount of homelessness. I think that one of the main problems we have when trying to tackle this issue is how the general public views homeless people. Rather than trying to elevate the financial status of our fellow Americans, we, as a nation, would rather look at these people with contempt. I think I noticed this the most when driving through a "poorish" neighborhood and my wife expressed some negative feelings. I know other people are like this as well. Based on what I've seen personally, I believe that there is a serious class issue within the U.S. I understand that a lot of homeless people are not good people, or are homeless because of reasons within their control. However, I do believe that the majority of these people can be useful for something, and should at least, have the opportunity to fix or change their life.

Anyways, I'm not a socialist necessarily, but I believe this issue stems from the fact that our country is obsessed with profits and consumerism, rather than comradery and community. This is a late stage capitalism issue and imo, is solved by a cultural change, rather than some sort of change by legislature initially. However, when the time comes, I would personally implement some sort of large-scale "homeless employment" that would consist of small or large scale public projects. Of course, this has been done pretty often. So  I would try to implement measures to make this semi-permanent. Providing employees a place to eat and sleep, in range within their work site. I've toyed around with the idea of tiny house villages (lol) or perhaps reclaiming abandoned buildings and repurposing them into housing for homeless employees. However, this could only be achieved if freed up some of our budget from other agencies. The first one that comes to mind is the military, but I would be weary of removing too much from the defense budget. As a good 60% of it is actually useful and not beaurucratic junk.

I'm drunk while writing this so I'm not too sure if my post made sense but i'll post the main point down here.

I believe that Americans have a serious cultural problem that can only be solved by becoming more collectivist. More beneficial and semi-permanent social programs need to be implemented to to give the economically disadvantaged a serious chance to reclaim their role in society. However, measures also need to be implemented to make sure that this system isn't abused/used by people that do not deserve it.

ok thanks
Hello my fellow National Socialist I can spot you from a mile away with those Hitler ideas

mm not nessecarily, but third position economics is definitely the way to go
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on February 05, 2021, 11:21:16 pm
"The Third Position is a set of neo-fascist political ideologies that developed in Western Europe following the Second World War. Developed in the context of the Cold War, it developed its name through the claim that it represented a third position between the capitalism of the Western Bloc and the communism of the Eastern Bloc." - Wikipedia

Nice.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Aurum on February 06, 2021, 01:29:39 am
"The Third Position is a set of neo-fascist political ideologies that developed in Western Europe following the Second World War. Developed in the context of the Cold War, it developed its name through the claim that it represented a third position between the capitalism of the Western Bloc and the communism of the Eastern Bloc." - Wikipedia

Nice.

I just agree with it economically, don't really see what the issue is with that
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 06, 2021, 03:41:56 am
"The Third Position is a set of neo-fascist political ideologies that developed in Western Europe following the Second World War. Developed in the context of the Cold War, it developed its name through the claim that it represented a third position between the capitalism of the Western Bloc and the communism of the Eastern Bloc." - Wikipedia

Nice.
Aurum is a based fren :)
https://youtu.be/VeNjMwCZETg
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
DOUBLE ROMANS!
[close]
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[close]
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Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on February 06, 2021, 05:14:01 am
"The Third Position is a set of neo-fascist political ideologies that developed in Western Europe following the Second World War. Developed in the context of the Cold War, it developed its name through the claim that it represented a third position between the capitalism of the Western Bloc and the communism of the Eastern Bloc." - Wikipedia

Nice.
Aurum is a based fren :)
https://youtu.be/VeNjMwCZETg
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
DOUBLE ROMANS!
[close]
[close]
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[close]
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[close]
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Just to clarify he said it's not true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4kPn5hEFB4

"The Third Position is a set of neo-fascist political ideologies that developed in Western Europe following the Second World War. Developed in the context of the Cold War, it developed its name through the claim that it represented a third position between the capitalism of the Western Bloc and the communism of the Eastern Bloc." - Wikipedia

Nice.

I just agree with it economically, don't really see what the issue is with that

I dunno fam a mix of fascism and communism seems like shit x2 to me.
But I'd have to read up on the ideology to give you a real take. But I can't be fucked reading up on some dead ideology nobody gives two shits about.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 06, 2021, 09:42:39 pm
"The Third Position is a set of neo-fascist political ideologies that developed in Western Europe following the Second World War. Developed in the context of the Cold War, it developed its name through the claim that it represented a third position between the capitalism of the Western Bloc and the communism of the Eastern Bloc." - Wikipedia

Nice.
Aurum is a based fren :)
Spoiler
https://youtu.be/VeNjMwCZETg
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
DOUBLE ROMANS!
[close]
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Just to clarify he said it's not true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4kPn5hEFB4

"The Third Position is a set of neo-fascist political ideologies that developed in Western Europe following the Second World War. Developed in the context of the Cold War, it developed its name through the claim that it represented a third position between the capitalism of the Western Bloc and the communism of the Eastern Bloc." - Wikipedia

Nice.

I just agree with it economically, don't really see what the issue is with that

I dunno fam a mix of fascism and communism seems like shit x2 to me.
But I'd have to read up on the ideology to give you a real take. But I can't be fucked reading up on some dead ideology nobody gives two shits about.
I would do the same, not tryna lose my career over saying you liked a guy who criticized the people you aren't allowed to criticize
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on February 07, 2021, 12:44:00 am
I dunno fam a mix of fascism and communism seems like shit x2 to me.
But I'd have to read up on the ideology to give you a real take. But I can't be fucked reading up on some dead ideology nobody gives two shits about.
based
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Aurum on February 10, 2021, 06:03:35 am
"The Third Position is a set of neo-fascist political ideologies that developed in Western Europe following the Second World War. Developed in the context of the Cold War, it developed its name through the claim that it represented a third position between the capitalism of the Western Bloc and the communism of the Eastern Bloc." - Wikipedia

Nice.
Aurum is a based fren :)
https://youtu.be/VeNjMwCZETg
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
DOUBLE ROMANS!
[close]
[close]
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Just to clarify he said it's not true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4kPn5hEFB4

"The Third Position is a set of neo-fascist political ideologies that developed in Western Europe following the Second World War. Developed in the context of the Cold War, it developed its name through the claim that it represented a third position between the capitalism of the Western Bloc and the communism of the Eastern Bloc." - Wikipedia

Nice.

I just agree with it economically, don't really see what the issue is with that

I dunno fam a mix of fascism and communism seems like shit x2 to me.
But I'd have to read up on the ideology to give you a real take. But I can't be fucked reading up on some dead ideology nobody gives two shits about.

I mean it's not really a mix of communism and fascism. More so of a mix of capitalism and socialism. Literally the only two sides of the economic spectrum lol.

Anyways, Maybe it's different for Europeans but us Americans have a lot to look forward to outside of the republican and democratic parties. Which essentially are extremely close, politically and are divisive to the core. I envy European countries with multiple political parties. We need deep reform.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on February 10, 2021, 12:00:06 pm
A multiple Party system would be very good for the US. You have Sanders, Biden, Obama, AOC and Warren in the same party? In a normal system, they would be in different parties but could form a majority in the parlament. Same goes for the GOP. Imagine voting for a party that stands for 80-90% of your opinion and not just 40%.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 10, 2021, 03:03:26 pm
A multiple Party system would be very good for the US. You have Sanders, Biden, Obama, AOC and Warren in the same party? In a normal system, they would be in different parties but could form a majority in the parlament. Same goes for the GOP. Imagine voting for a party that stands for 80-90% of your opinion and not just 40%.
yep, as someone from a working democracy watching the american political system is very frustrating
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 10, 2021, 03:24:09 pm
A multiple Party system would be very good for the US. You have Sanders, Biden, Obama, AOC and Warren in the same party? In a normal system, they would be in different parties but could form a majority in the parlament. Same goes for the GOP. Imagine voting for a party that stands for 80-90% of your opinion and not just 40%.
^^
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 10, 2021, 10:01:07 pm
A multiple Party system would be very good for the US. You have Sanders, Biden, Obama, AOC and Warren in the same party? In a normal system, they would be in different parties but could form a majority in the parlament. Same goes for the GOP. Imagine voting for a party that stands for 80-90% of your opinion and not just 40%.
^^
the parties will probably just form alliances similar to how the political climate is now anyway so more than likely wont be a big difference and will probably just make you think youre more important than you are and will still have to bow down to our true glorious leaders
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on February 10, 2021, 10:09:32 pm
A multiple Party system would be very good for the US. You have Sanders, Biden, Obama, AOC and Warren in the same party? In a normal system, they would be in different parties but could form a majority in the parlament. Same goes for the GOP. Imagine voting for a party that stands for 80-90% of your opinion and not just 40%.
^^
the parties will probably just form alliances similar to how the political climate is now anyway so more than likely wont be a big difference and will probably just make you think youre more important than you are and will still have to bow down to our true glorious leaders
Could happen, but more likely the parties will built a social, a liberal, a conservative, an enivorment, a populist and a socialist party. Probably a christian party for the evangelists. Maybe a socialist one.
There are people in both parties in the us that can be sorted in the liberal party. Some in the social party from both Dems and Reps.
In the end it could only help the people to find a party that fits them better.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 10, 2021, 10:10:54 pm
A multiple Party system would be very good for the US. You have Sanders, Biden, Obama, AOC and Warren in the same party? In a normal system, they would be in different parties but could form a majority in the parlament. Same goes for the GOP. Imagine voting for a party that stands for 80-90% of your opinion and not just 40%.
yep, as someone from a working democracy watching the american political system is very frustrating
"let me show you stupid ameritards what a real democracy looks like"
(https://i.imgur.com/GMkjsST.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 10, 2021, 10:11:47 pm
A multiple Party system would be very good for the US. You have Sanders, Biden, Obama, AOC and Warren in the same party? In a normal system, they would be in different parties but could form a majority in the parlament. Same goes for the GOP. Imagine voting for a party that stands for 80-90% of your opinion and not just 40%.
^^
the parties will probably just form alliances similar to how the political climate is now anyway so more than likely wont be a big difference and will probably just make you think youre more important than you are and will still have to bow down to our true glorious leaders
you'd be surprised
canada has 3 major political parties and factions aren't too common. been a true minority government here since the last election
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ShintoSkookum on February 11, 2021, 12:00:47 am
environmentalist party that isn’t gay like Green Party pls ty

Spoiler
even tho I vote Green Party :(
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 11, 2021, 01:35:58 am
A multiple Party system would be very good for the US. You have Sanders, Biden, Obama, AOC and Warren in the same party? In a normal system, they would be in different parties but could form a majority in the parlament. Same goes for the GOP. Imagine voting for a party that stands for 80-90% of your opinion and not just 40%.
yep, as someone from a working democracy watching the american political system is very frustrating
"let me show you stupid ameritards what a real democracy looks like"
(https://i.imgur.com/GMkjsST.png)
I do hope you are merely pretending to be retarded

A multiple Party system would be very good for the US. You have Sanders, Biden, Obama, AOC and Warren in the same party? In a normal system, they would be in different parties but could form a majority in the parlament. Same goes for the GOP. Imagine voting for a party that stands for 80-90% of your opinion and not just 40%.
^^
the parties will probably just form alliances similar to how the political climate is now anyway so more than likely wont be a big difference and will probably just make you think youre more important than you are and will still have to bow down to our true glorious leaders
you'd be surprised
canada has 3 major political parties and factions aren't too common. been a true minority government here since the last election
I mean even if, these alliances are coalitions and are still LEAPS better then your shit 2 Party System.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on February 11, 2021, 02:21:37 am

A multiple Party system would be very good for the US. You have Sanders, Biden, Obama, AOC and Warren in the same party? In a normal system, they would be in different parties but could form a majority in the parlament. Same goes for the GOP. Imagine voting for a party that stands for 80-90% of your opinion and not just 40%.
^^
the parties will probably just form alliances similar to how the political climate is now anyway so more than likely wont be a big difference and will probably just make you think youre more important than you are and will still have to bow down to our true glorious leaders
you'd be surprised
canada has 3 major political parties and factions aren't too common. been a true minority government here since the last election
I mean even if, these alliances are coalitions and are still LEAPS better then your shit 2 Party System.
Theo is Canadian... so its not his system. Just his weird neighbours system.


About the Merkel pic: you know she got voted every 4 years and there were always candidates from other parties, right? So she  (in Germany her party) is elected by most people, they built a coalition with another party and then she is elected by the parliament to be the Bundeskanzlerin. There is no problem if the person you vote for does not have so much power like the US President and has to be a good solution for most people, not just the 'better than the other Option' votes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 11, 2021, 02:25:00 am
europoors coping still smh

*snip*
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on February 11, 2021, 05:46:26 am
Support the CPUSA
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on February 11, 2021, 08:57:03 am
The voting system creates the party system, preferential or ranked ballot voting would allow 3rd party viability but that would mean people in power giving up power. Didn't happen under trudeau, definitely not happening under republicans or democrats.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on February 11, 2021, 12:41:57 pm
given how flawed the us voting system is, multiple parties would lead to even more confusion and fraud
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on February 11, 2021, 01:24:39 pm
Imagine having to Register to vote
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on February 11, 2021, 01:42:58 pm
Imagine having to Register to vote
Imagine closing voting stations in cities so the libtards have to wait for hours.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 11, 2021, 07:01:50 pm
Imagine having to Register to vote
We do
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on February 13, 2021, 04:03:31 pm
A multiple Party system would be very good for the US. You have Sanders, Biden, Obama, AOC and Warren in the same party? In a normal system, they would be in different parties but could form a majority in the parlament. Same goes for the GOP. Imagine voting for a party that stands for 80-90% of your opinion and not just 40%.
^^
the parties will probably just form alliances similar to how the political climate is now anyway so more than likely wont be a big difference and will probably just make you think youre more important than you are and will still have to bow down to our true glorious leaders
Could happen, but more likely the parties will built a social, a liberal, a conservative, an enivorment, a populist and a socialist party. Probably a christian party for the evangelists. Maybe a socialist one.
There are people in both parties in the us that can be sorted in the liberal party. Some in the social party from both Dems and Reps.
In the end it could only help the people to find a party that fits them better.

I mean the primaries are basicly like deciding between different parties on the right to far right (Republicans) and centre-right to centre to left (Democrats).
I think more parties would make it harder if anything for more voices to get through in a first past the post system.
Just look at the UK, Labour and Conservatives are basicly winning all district elections even though the Liberals tend to get between 7-20% each election.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on February 13, 2021, 04:17:22 pm
A multiple Party system would be very good for the US. You have Sanders, Biden, Obama, AOC and Warren in the same party? In a normal system, they would be in different parties but could form a majority in the parlament. Same goes for the GOP. Imagine voting for a party that stands for 80-90% of your opinion and not just 40%.
^^
the parties will probably just form alliances similar to how the political climate is now anyway so more than likely wont be a big difference and will probably just make you think youre more important than you are and will still have to bow down to our true glorious leaders
Could happen, but more likely the parties will built a social, a liberal, a conservative, an enivorment, a populist and a socialist party. Probably a christian party for the evangelists. Maybe a socialist one.
There are people in both parties in the us that can be sorted in the liberal party. Some in the social party from both Dems and Reps.
In the end it could only help the people to find a party that fits them better.

I mean the primaries are basicly like deciding between different parties on the right to far right (Republicans) and centre-right to centre to left (Democrats).
I think more parties would make it harder if anything for more voices to get through in a first past the post system.
Just look at the UK, Labour and Conservatives are basicly winning all district elections even though the Liberals tend to get between 7-20% each election.
Yes, and still the tories need the DUP to have 50%. And its not just about the government. If the party makes it into the parliament, they have a voice. Thats more worth than having a party that stand for 40% or your opinion having the majority in a Parlament.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on February 14, 2021, 01:01:14 am
No they don't the tories have 365 seats out of 326 needed for a majority, the tories have formed a government alone. DUP was from 2017-2019.
Also like I said that's what primaries are for I doubt more parties would make any difference in congress.
Maybe if it was introduced with some sort of proportioinal representation system but that would probably be called an infringement on state rights so I doubt that would ever happen.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 14, 2021, 03:16:55 am
No they don't the tories have 365 seats out of 326 needed for a majority, the tories have formed a government alone. DUP was from 2017-2019.
Also like I said that's what primaries are for I doubt more parties would make any difference in congress.
Maybe if it was introduced with some sort of proportioinal representation system but that would probably be called an infringement on state rights so I doubt that would ever happen.
even if third parties don't get into government or coalitions they at least compete for voters
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Svenypoo on February 14, 2021, 06:27:31 pm
No they don't the tories have 365 seats out of 326 needed for a majority, the tories have formed a government alone. DUP was from 2017-2019.
Also like I said that's what primaries are for I doubt more parties would make any difference in congress.
Maybe if it was introduced with some sort of proportioinal representation system but that would probably be called an infringement on state rights so I doubt that would ever happen.
even if third parties don't get into government or coalitions they at least compete for voters
shut up retard
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 14, 2021, 08:46:50 pm
No they don't the tories have 365 seats out of 326 needed for a majority, the tories have formed a government alone. DUP was from 2017-2019.
Also like I said that's what primaries are for I doubt more parties would make any difference in congress.
Maybe if it was introduced with some sort of proportioinal representation system but that would probably be called an infringement on state rights so I doubt that would ever happen.
even if third parties don't get into government or coalitions they at least compete for voters
shut up retard
Svenynoob
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on February 14, 2021, 11:10:53 pm
No they don't the tories have 365 seats out of 326 needed for a majority, the tories have formed a government alone. DUP was from 2017-2019.
Also like I said that's what primaries are for I doubt more parties would make any difference in congress.
Maybe if it was introduced with some sort of proportioinal representation system but that would probably be called an infringement on state rights so I doubt that would ever happen.
even if third parties don't get into government or coalitions they at least compete for voters
shut up retard
Svenynoob

(https://i.gyazo.com/98f6efddbc29f392946bad5bb0a67268.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 14, 2021, 11:14:07 pm
No they don't the tories have 365 seats out of 326 needed for a majority, the tories have formed a government alone. DUP was from 2017-2019.
Also like I said that's what primaries are for I doubt more parties would make any difference in congress.
Maybe if it was introduced with some sort of proportioinal representation system but that would probably be called an infringement on state rights so I doubt that would ever happen.
even if third parties don't get into government or coalitions they at least compete for voters
shut up retard
Svenynoob

(https://i.gyazo.com/98f6efddbc29f392946bad5bb0a67268.png)
(https://i.gyazo.com/bd914a72c9f2a3dad007da3b9bc10f07.png)
represent me
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on February 20, 2021, 01:20:33 am
So the snowflakes are in Texas now right?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 09, 2021, 05:10:22 pm
What do you mean?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 10, 2021, 01:34:58 pm
So the snowflakes are in Texas now right?

And one's below you xd
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 13, 2021, 12:20:20 am
The only snowflakes I see are the Americans that refuse to admit that Trump lost.
Or the ones who say "but mah rights" when they're forced to wear a mask inside a privately owned store.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 13, 2021, 02:06:26 am
The only snowflakes I see are the Americans that refuse to admit that Trump lost.
Or the ones who say "but mah rights" when they're forced to wear a mask inside a privately owned store.
there's a difference between noting that masks inside private stores are not an issue and then the people i see out running with masks on. like everything somewhat political, issues create crazies on every side
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 13, 2021, 08:19:32 am
”People I see out running with masks on.” Maybe I’m being slow but I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say with this.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 13, 2021, 02:39:55 pm
”People I see out running with masks on.” Maybe I’m being slow but I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say with this.
That there are times where wearing masks is ineffective and pointless and that some people really overestimate their usefulness
There really isn’t a situation outside where a mask has any real use
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 13, 2021, 04:22:58 pm
This is not entierly true. If you’re in a crowded area where you can’t keep 2 meters away from others then a lot of health experts recommend wearing a mask.

Either way I don’t see how this is even close to how right-wingers and anti-vaxxers are behaving.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 13, 2021, 05:13:02 pm
This is not entierly true. If you’re in a crowded area where you can’t keep 2 meters away from others then a lot of health experts recommend wearing a mask.

Either way I don’t see how this is even close to how right-wingers and anti-vaxxers are behaving.
”People I see out running with masks on.” Maybe I’m being slow but I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say with this.
That there are times where wearing masks is ineffective and pointless and that some people really overestimate their usefulness
There really isn’t a situation outside where a mask has any real use
Yes he agreed with you on masks should be a thing in buildings and private businesses. He is talking about masks like your just outside and you wear a mask.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 13, 2021, 05:16:06 pm
I'm talking about crowded outside areas.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 13, 2021, 05:17:41 pm
Why do people crowd together outside ?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 13, 2021, 05:21:01 pm
How am I supposed to answer that? Lol, if you live in the inner city maybe you have to sometimes, markets could also be an example.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 13, 2021, 05:32:37 pm
How am I supposed to answer that? Lol, if you live in the inner city maybe you have to sometimes, markets could also be an example.
If you look at the context he is talking about stuff like taking a outside run. You usally don't run through crowded areas
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 13, 2021, 05:34:30 pm
How am I supposed to answer that? Lol, if you live in the inner city maybe you have to sometimes, markets could also be an example.
If you look at the context he is talking about stuff like taking a outside run. You usally don't run through crowded areas

No one is stopping you from taking off your mask when jogging, but obviously, if you take a stop somewhere where there are others present there isn't an excuse for not putting the mask on imo
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 13, 2021, 05:40:14 pm
How am I supposed to answer that? Lol, if you live in the inner city maybe you have to sometimes, markets could also be an example.
If you look at the context he is talking about stuff like taking a outside run. You usally don't run through crowded areas

”People I see out running with masks on.” Maybe I’m being slow but I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say with this.
That there are times where wearing masks is ineffective and pointless and that some people really overestimate their usefulness
There really isn’t a situation outside where a mask has any real use
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 13, 2021, 05:41:05 pm
How am I supposed to answer that? Lol, if you live in the inner city maybe you have to sometimes, markets could also be an example.
If you look at the context he is talking about stuff like taking a outside run. You usally don't run through crowded areas

No one is stopping you from taking off your mask when jogging, but obviously, if you take a stop somewhere where there are others present there isn't an excuse for not putting the mask on imo
Well why wouldn't you not put your mask on infront of others.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 13, 2021, 05:45:35 pm
How am I supposed to answer that? Lol, if you live in the inner city maybe you have to sometimes, markets could also be an example.
If you look at the context he is talking about stuff like taking a outside run. You usally don't run through crowded areas

”People I see out running with masks on.” Maybe I’m being slow but I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say with this.
That there are times where wearing masks is ineffective and pointless and that some people really overestimate their usefulness
There really isn’t a situation outside where a mask has any real use
Maybe we just live in a different areas. But if I want outside and went on a walk. Odds are of me walking into anyone are super slim like next to none. If you go to a market your going to a place you know will have alot of people  you know your going somewhere where you need a mask. You don't just happen to walk into a market without knowing where it is.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 13, 2021, 06:03:24 pm
How am I supposed to answer that? Lol, if you live in the inner city maybe you have to sometimes, markets could also be an example.
If you look at the context he is talking about stuff like taking a outside run. You usally don't run through crowded areas

”People I see out running with masks on.” Maybe I’m being slow but I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say with this.
That there are times where wearing masks is ineffective and pointless and that some people really overestimate their usefulness
There really isn’t a situation outside where a mask has any real use
There isn’t, unless you’re at a crowded concert or something. The chances of getting COVID from outdoor circulation is crazy low
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 13, 2021, 06:08:48 pm
How am I supposed to answer that? Lol, if you live in the inner city maybe you have to sometimes, markets could also be an example.
If you look at the context he is talking about stuff like taking a outside run. You usally don't run through crowded areas

”People I see out running with masks on.” Maybe I’m being slow but I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say with this.
That there are times where wearing masks is ineffective and pointless and that some people really overestimate their usefulness
There really isn’t a situation outside where a mask has any real use
Maybe we just live in a different areas. But if I want outside and went on a walk. Odds are of me walking into anyone are super slim like next to none. If you go to a market your going to a place you know will have alot of people  you know your going somewhere where you need a mask. You don't just happen to walk into a market without knowing where it is.
Are you high? Your personal lived experience is not in question here.

How am I supposed to answer that? Lol, if you live in the inner city maybe you have to sometimes, markets could also be an example.
If you look at the context he is talking about stuff like taking a outside run. You usally don't run through crowded areas

”People I see out running with masks on.” Maybe I’m being slow but I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say with this.
That there are times where wearing masks is ineffective and pointless and that some people really overestimate their usefulness
There really isn’t a situation outside where a mask has any real use
There isn’t, unless you’re at a crowded concert or something. The chances of getting COVID from outdoor circulation is crazy low
There are other examples (some of which I've given) and this is a bit of a pivot?
Anyhow we can agree on that if you're able to keep a distance then masks outside is probably not necessary.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 13, 2021, 06:34:34 pm
Masks outside are generally not necessary
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on April 13, 2021, 06:59:47 pm
Masks are generally not necessary
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 14, 2021, 07:53:59 am
I am generally a retard
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on April 14, 2021, 07:58:38 am
I am generally a retard
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on April 14, 2021, 12:54:57 pm
I am going to start to wear PPE when I browse the forums because I don’t want to breathe the same air as you retards
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 15, 2021, 02:55:14 pm
Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ZeroNight on April 15, 2021, 03:33:44 pm
Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!

Again, Americans disgust me
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 15, 2021, 05:16:55 pm
Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!

Again, Americans disgust me
I know I usally just troll but what drugs are you guys on I want some.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on April 16, 2021, 03:24:04 am
Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
If you're referring to the recent death of Daunte Wright conflating an armed robbery and assault charge with murder attempt seems a bit much. The officer who shot him hasn't been charged with a hate nor crime, nor has she been assumed guilty until proven innocent.

Civil society seems to think otherwise, but it seem more of a reaction to the general situation faced by black people with regards to police violence in the U.S, than an explicit hate crime in the instance of Wrights death. And while civil society may think the officer guilty until proven innocent, they don't enforce legal penalties, the judicial system does.

Aight I'm back to the shadows...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 16, 2021, 05:30:01 am
She resigned and is being charged with second-degree manslaughter
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/14/us/kim-potter-charged-daunte-wright.html

Supposedly it's very unlikely that she will be convicted though due to how narrowly worded the law is.
Personally I don't understand how you as a trained professional could possibly mistake a gun for a taser.
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/005452e17f684ce4b3ba9951245830cf.png)
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Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on April 16, 2021, 06:40:07 am
1 less one to worry about eh boys?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 16, 2021, 06:43:34 am
1 less one to worry about eh boys?
we get it bro you hate black people
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on April 16, 2021, 07:24:24 am
1 less one to worry about eh boys?
we get it bro you hate black people
I was obviously talking about c*ps out on the street sweetie 💅💅
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 16, 2021, 10:51:33 am
imagine being unironically racist lmao HAHA XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD funny frog am I right guys

She resigned and is being charged with second-degree manslaughter
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/14/us/kim-potter-charged-daunte-wright.html

Supposedly it's very unlikely that she will be convicted though due to how narrowly worded the law is.
Personally I don't understand how you as a trained professional could possibly mistake a gun for a taser.
Spoiler
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I was inclined to give her some slag, but I read somewhere she was on the force for 17 Years. So she either is grossly incompetent and should only work in incredibly low skill jobs, or she actually wanted to shoot someone.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 16, 2021, 02:13:58 pm
imagine being unironically racist lmao HAHA XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD funny frog am I right guys

She resigned and is being charged with second-degree manslaughter
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/14/us/kim-potter-charged-daunte-wright.html

Supposedly it's very unlikely that she will be convicted though due to how narrowly worded the law is.
Personally I don't understand how you as a trained professional could possibly mistake a gun for a taser.
Spoiler
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I was inclined to give her some slag, but I read somewhere she was on the force for 17 Years. So she either is grossly incompetent and should only work in incredibly low skill jobs, or she actually wanted to shoot someone.

Actually she was on the force for 26 years.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 16, 2021, 02:42:16 pm
Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
If you're referring to the recent death of Daunte Wright conflating an armed robbery and assault charge with murder attempt seems a bit much. The officer who shot him hasn't been charged with a hate nor crime, nor has she been assumed guilty until proven innocent.

Civil society seems to think otherwise, but it seem more of a reaction to the general situation faced by black people with regards to police violence in the U.S, than an explicit hate crime in the instance of Wrights death. And while civil society may think the officer guilty until proven innocent, they don't enforce legal penalties, the judicial system does.

Aight I'm back to the shadows...

I'm not referring to the Daunte Wright case.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on April 16, 2021, 03:08:00 pm
Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
A few of the BLM leaders also take advantage of the donations they get and spend it on houses!!!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on April 16, 2021, 06:59:42 pm
Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
A few of the BLM leaders also take advantage of the donations they get and spend it on houses!!!

Do the shady business transactions of a few decrepit individuals who are motivated by greed invalidate the grievances of the disenfranchised? 

We should have annihilated any notion of the Lost Cause in its infancy.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 16, 2021, 07:28:02 pm
Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
If you're referring to the recent death of Daunte Wright conflating an armed robbery and assault charge with murder attempt seems a bit much. The officer who shot him hasn't been charged with a hate nor crime, nor has she been assumed guilty until proven innocent.

Civil society seems to think otherwise, but it seem more of a reaction to the general situation faced by black people with regards to police violence in the U.S, than an explicit hate crime in the instance of Wrights death. And while civil society may think the officer guilty until proven innocent, they don't enforce legal penalties, the judicial system does.

Aight I'm back to the shadows...

I'm not referring to the Daunte Wright case.
Why are you dropping cryptic messages like this?

Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
A few of the BLM leaders also take advantage of the donations they get and spend it on houses!!!

I assume you're reffering to Patrisse Cullors?
Sure, she did make her money by riding on BLM with her memories and being offered director roles for WB and youtube but so far I haven't seen evidence of any wrong doing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on April 16, 2021, 09:49:16 pm
Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
If you're referring to the recent death of Daunte Wright conflating an armed robbery and assault charge with murder attempt seems a bit much. The officer who shot him hasn't been charged with a hate nor crime, nor has she been assumed guilty until proven innocent.

Civil society seems to think otherwise, but it seem more of a reaction to the general situation faced by black people with regards to police violence in the U.S, than an explicit hate crime in the instance of Wrights death. And while civil society may think the officer guilty until proven innocent, they don't enforce legal penalties, the judicial system does.

Aight I'm back to the shadows...

I'm not referring to the Daunte Wright case.
Why are you dropping cryptic messages like this?

Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
A few of the BLM leaders also take advantage of the donations they get and spend it on houses!!!

I assume you're reffering to Patrisse Cullors?
Sure, she did make her money by riding on BLM with her memories and being offered director roles for WB and youtube but so far I haven't seen evidence of any wrong doing.
Kore most likely murdered a minority
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 17, 2021, 12:51:56 pm
Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
If you're referring to the recent death of Daunte Wright conflating an armed robbery and assault charge with murder attempt seems a bit much. The officer who shot him hasn't been charged with a hate nor crime, nor has she been assumed guilty until proven innocent.

Civil society seems to think otherwise, but it seem more of a reaction to the general situation faced by black people with regards to police violence in the U.S, than an explicit hate crime in the instance of Wrights death. And while civil society may think the officer guilty until proven innocent, they don't enforce legal penalties, the judicial system does.

Aight I'm back to the shadows...

I'm not referring to the Daunte Wright case.
Why are you dropping cryptic messages like this?

Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
A few of the BLM leaders also take advantage of the donations they get and spend it on houses!!!

I assume you're reffering to Patrisse Cullors?
Sure, she did make her money by riding on BLM with her memories and being offered director roles for WB and youtube but so far I haven't seen evidence of any wrong doing.

I was referring to football. Doesn't change anything though, nowadays killing a white man will get you less backlash than killing a black man no matter the circumstances. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 17, 2021, 12:54:37 pm
Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
If you're referring to the recent death of Daunte Wright conflating an armed robbery and assault charge with murder attempt seems a bit much. The officer who shot him hasn't been charged with a hate nor crime, nor has she been assumed guilty until proven innocent.

Civil society seems to think otherwise, but it seem more of a reaction to the general situation faced by black people with regards to police violence in the U.S, than an explicit hate crime in the instance of Wrights death. And while civil society may think the officer guilty until proven innocent, they don't enforce legal penalties, the judicial system does.

Aight I'm back to the shadows...

I'm not referring to the Daunte Wright case.
Why are you dropping cryptic messages like this?

Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
A few of the BLM leaders also take advantage of the donations they get and spend it on houses!!!

I assume you're reffering to Patrisse Cullors?
Sure, she did make her money by riding on BLM with her memories and being offered director roles for WB and youtube but so far I haven't seen evidence of any wrong doing.
Kore most likely murdered a minority

Yes, call me a racist because I'm pointing out major flaws in today's society
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dan the Seagull Chef on April 17, 2021, 01:05:36 pm
Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
If you're referring to the recent death of Daunte Wright conflating an armed robbery and assault charge with murder attempt seems a bit much. The officer who shot him hasn't been charged with a hate nor crime, nor has she been assumed guilty until proven innocent.

Civil society seems to think otherwise, but it seem more of a reaction to the general situation faced by black people with regards to police violence in the U.S, than an explicit hate crime in the instance of Wrights death. And while civil society may think the officer guilty until proven innocent, they don't enforce legal penalties, the judicial system does.

Aight I'm back to the shadows...

I'm not referring to the Daunte Wright case.
Why are you dropping cryptic messages like this?

Well done west. Apparently now accusing somebody of "racism" without ANY proof whatsoever (guilty until proven innocent) is more serious than a murder attempt and an assault.

Good job, let the terrorists from BLM get in control of everything. Common sense is no more!
A few of the BLM leaders also take advantage of the donations they get and spend it on houses!!!

I assume you're reffering to Patrisse Cullors?
Sure, she did make her money by riding on BLM with her memories and being offered director roles for WB and youtube but so far I haven't seen evidence of any wrong doing.
Kore most likely murdered a minority

Yes, call me a racist because I'm pointing out major flaws in today's society
No I called you a murderer because you killed someone in cold blood
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on April 17, 2021, 03:31:13 pm
Kore's talking about the slavia prague player who called a Rangers Player a slur.

Killing anyone is bad but maybe the police should stop killing black people especially young children. Idk just a wild thought.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on April 17, 2021, 10:33:56 pm
Kore's talking about the slavia prague player who called a Rangers Player a slur.

Killing anyone is bad but maybe the police should stop killing black people especially young children. Idk just a wild thought.
Pretty sad that the child got shot but he shouldn't be holding a gun in the first place. I do believe we some sort of new police reform and technology to keep citizens and cops safe.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 18, 2021, 01:58:55 am
Kore's talking about the slavia prague player who called a Rangers Player a slur.

Killing anyone is bad but maybe the police should stop killing black people especially young children. Idk just a wild thought.
Pretty sad that the child got shot but he shouldn't be holding a gun in the first place. I do believe we some sort of new police reform and technology to keep citizens and cops safe.
Im about to finish the german police academy, and man your police system is horrendous to me.

1. Why does every single city pay for its own police force?! the drawbacks from this are obvious: most departments have no money, lackluster training and most people police the area they are from. totally unnecessary
2. Your Police Training is like a few months. In Germany we train for 3 years and you need to finish a bachelors degree to become a basic policeman. We study sociology, psychology etc. to deescalate situations and train high stress situations. What can you even learn in a few weeks?
3. Your police is getting more and more militarised. The equipment, the training is more in the spirit of invading vietnam then policing. You cant compare policing and military work. In policing you need to be compassionate, empathetic, communicative but also firm if you need to. In the military you need to kill the enemy. Even the fucking public communication: "War on Crime" what fucking war. Crime exists because of sociology issues. Who do you wage fucking "War" against??
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on April 18, 2021, 02:55:47 am
Kore's talking about the slavia prague player who called a Rangers Player a slur.

Killing anyone is bad but maybe the police should stop killing black people especially young children. Idk just a wild thought.
Pretty sad that the child got shot but he shouldn't be holding a gun in the first place. I do believe we some sort of new police reform and technology to keep citizens and cops safe.
Im about to finish the german police academy, and man your police system is horrendous to me.

1. Why does every single city pay for its own police force?! the drawbacks from this are obvious: most departments have no money, lackluster training and most people police the area they are from. totally unnecessary
2. Your Police Training is like a few months. In Germany we train for 3 years and you need to finish a bachelors degree to become a basic policeman. We study sociology, psychology etc. to deescalate situations and train high stress situations. What can you even learn in a few weeks?
3. Your police is getting more and more militarised. The equipment, the training is more in the spirit of invading vietnam then policing. You cant compare policing and military work. In policing you need to be compassionate, empathetic, communicative but also firm if you need to. In the military you need to kill the enemy. Even the fucking public communication: "War on Crime" what fucking war. Crime exists because of sociology issues. Who do you wage fucking "War" against??

in kore's case black people
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 18, 2021, 03:00:38 am
Kore's talking about the slavia prague player who called a Rangers Player a slur.

Killing anyone is bad but maybe the police should stop killing black people especially young children. Idk just a wild thought.
Pretty sad that the child got shot but he shouldn't be holding a gun in the first place. I do believe we some sort of new police reform and technology to keep citizens and cops safe.
Im about to finish the german police academy, and man your police system is horrendous to me.

1. Why does every single city pay for its own police force?! the drawbacks from this are obvious: most departments have no money, lackluster training and most people police the area they are from. totally unnecessary
2. Your Police Training is like a few months. In Germany we train for 3 years and you need to finish a bachelors degree to become a basic policeman. We study sociology, psychology etc. to deescalate situations and train high stress situations. What can you even learn in a few weeks?
3. Your police is getting more and more militarised. The equipment, the training is more in the spirit of invading vietnam then policing. You cant compare policing and military work. In policing you need to be compassionate, empathetic, communicative but also firm if you need to. In the military you need to kill the enemy. Even the fucking public communication: "War on Crime" what fucking war. Crime exists because of sociology issues. Who do you wage fucking "War" against??
also the lack of a federally mandated training standard is a serious detriment
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DayBoul on April 18, 2021, 03:23:01 am
Kore's talking about the slavia prague player who called a Rangers Player a slur.

Killing anyone is bad but maybe the police should stop killing black people especially young children. Idk just a wild thought.
some say cops are more likely to shoot african-americans because they're the most criminally active ethnic minority in the country, but lets be real they only shoot them because they're WHITE NEONAZI TRASH
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 18, 2021, 03:23:51 am
Kore's talking about the slavia prague player who called a Rangers Player a slur.

Killing anyone is bad but maybe the police should stop killing black people especially young children. Idk just a wild thought.
Pretty sad that the child got shot but he shouldn't be holding a gun in the first place. I do believe we some sort of new police reform and technology to keep citizens and cops safe.
Im about to finish the german police academy, and man your police system is horrendous to me.

1. Why does every single city pay for its own police force?! the drawbacks from this are obvious: most departments have no money, lackluster training and most people police the area they are from. totally unnecessary
2. Your Police Training is like a few months. In Germany we train for 3 years and you need to finish a bachelors degree to become a basic policeman. We study sociology, psychology etc. to deescalate situations and train high stress situations. What can you even learn in a few weeks?
3. Your police is getting more and more militarised. The equipment, the training is more in the spirit of invading vietnam then policing. You cant compare policing and military work. In policing you need to be compassionate, empathetic, communicative but also firm if you need to. In the military you need to kill the enemy. Even the fucking public communication: "War on Crime" what fucking war. Crime exists because of sociology issues. Who do you wage fucking "War" against??

in kore's case black people

bruh

Kore's talking about the slavia prague player who called a Rangers Player a slur.

Killing anyone is bad but maybe the police should stop killing black people especially young children. Idk just a wild thought.
some say cops are more likely to shoot african-americans because they're the most criminally active ethnic minority in the country, but lets be real they only shoot them because they're WHITE NEONAZI TRASH

bet they will force whites into slavery now that biden is a president so they know what was it like 150+ years ago
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on April 18, 2021, 08:59:09 am
Kore's talking about the slavia prague player who called a Rangers Player a slur.

Killing anyone is bad but maybe the police should stop killing black people especially young children. Idk just a wild thought.
Pretty sad that the child got shot but he shouldn't be holding a gun in the first place. I do believe we some sort of new police reform and technology to keep citizens and cops safe.
Im about to finish the german police academy, and man your police system is horrendous to me.

1. Why does every single city pay for its own police force?! the drawbacks from this are obvious: most departments have no money, lackluster training and most people police the area they are from. totally unnecessary
2. Your Police Training is like a few months. In Germany we train for 3 years and you need to finish a bachelors degree to become a basic policeman. We study sociology, psychology etc. to deescalate situations and train high stress situations. What can you even learn in a few weeks?
3. Your police is getting more and more militarised. The equipment, the training is more in the spirit of invading vietnam then policing. You cant compare policing and military work. In policing you need to be compassionate, empathetic, communicative but also firm if you need to. In the military you need to kill the enemy. Even the fucking public communication: "War on Crime" what fucking war. Crime exists because of sociology issues. Who do you wage fucking "War" against??

in kore's case black people

bruh

Kore's talking about the slavia prague player who called a Rangers Player a slur.

Killing anyone is bad but maybe the police should stop killing black people especially young children. Idk just a wild thought.
some say cops are more likely to shoot african-americans because they're the most criminally active ethnic minority in the country, but lets be real they only shoot them because they're WHITE NEONAZI TRASH

bet they will force whites into slavery now that biden is a president so they know what was it like 150+ years ago
das rhyte whiteboi

we kangz now
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on April 18, 2021, 01:53:30 pm
Surely that's bait?

Biden was VP to meet republican in the middle. Look at his voting record and you'll see he's a republican in all but name. He's not the radical leftist you pretend he is.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on April 18, 2021, 03:18:55 pm
Surely that's bait?

Biden was VP to meet republican in the middle. Look at his voting record and you'll see he's a republican in all but name. He's not the radical leftist you pretend he is.
But he is the devil on earth! He invented the jewish space laser together with Bill gates and BLM.
Do your research!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on April 19, 2021, 12:37:00 am
Surely that's bait?

Biden was VP to meet republican in the middle. Look at his voting record and you'll see he's a republican in all but name. He's not the radical leftist you pretend he is.
But he is the devil on earth! He invented the jewish space laser together with Bill gates and BLM.
Do your research!
yes, he dances for the *snip* puppetmaster that has his hand up his ass
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 19, 2021, 11:42:03 am
I am going to start to wear PPE when I browse the forums because I don’t want to breathe the same air as you retards
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 20, 2021, 12:29:50 am
I am going to start to wear PPE when I browse the forums because I don’t want to breathe the same air as you retards
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 20, 2021, 11:32:40 pm
"murder", RIP US legal system
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on April 20, 2021, 11:34:37 pm
"murder", RIP US legal system
Not shocked tbh.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on April 21, 2021, 01:27:14 am
A guilty verdict is the only positive outcome from this case. Won't bring George Floyd back but its justice and it sends the right message.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on April 21, 2021, 02:38:14 am
A guilty verdict is the only positive outcome from this case. Won't bring George Floyd back but its justice and it sends the right message.
100% agree, I cant wait for the next crackhead to OD on fentanyl so I can cop some new jordans
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 21, 2021, 03:33:33 am
A guilty verdict is the only positive outcome from this case. Won't bring George Floyd back but its justice and it sends the right message.

Guilty? I agree. Murder? Probably not.

What I find disturbing the most is the brutal reality that if they switched their skin colour there would be zero media coverage and probably way milder punishment.

The so called fight against inequality and supposed oppression of black community has turned into a witch hunt of every white officer.

There are millions of police-civilian interactions each year and how many end up with an unarmed black person getting shot? Literally a needle in a haystack. Same applies for the gun rights issue - banning guns or taking away guns won't solve anything, it will most likely have the opposite effect.

Americans should aim to solve the issues at their roots and search for actual solutions. And no, the institution is not the issue.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on April 21, 2021, 05:52:13 am
Spoiler
A guilty verdict is the only positive outcome from this case. Won't bring George Floyd back but its justice and it sends the right message.

Guilty? I agree. Murder? Probably not.

What I find disturbing the most is the brutal reality that if they switched their skin colour there would be zero media coverage and probably way milder punishment.

The so called fight against inequality and supposed oppression of black community has turned into a witch hunt of every white officer.

There are millions of police-civilian interactions each year and how many end up with an unarmed black person getting shot? Literally a needle in a haystack. Same applies for the gun rights issue - banning guns or taking away guns won't solve anything, it will most likely have the opposite effect.

Americans should aim to solve the issues at their roots and search for actual solutions. And no, the institution is not the issue.
[close]
Kore speakin them factZ
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on April 21, 2021, 10:00:37 am
A man was in cuffs, on the ground with no possible way of being a threat. A police officer held his knee against his neck for 9 and a half minutes. Its not like he fell and accidentally killed him. He chose to put his knee on this guy and then held it there for over 9 minutes whilst the victim said he can't breathe. Idk seems kinda deliberate to me. Oh and by the way , we've known for years that kneeling on someone like that cuts off their air supply :3
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 21, 2021, 10:02:36 am
A guilty verdict is the only positive outcome from this case. Won't bring George Floyd back but its justice and it sends the right message.

Guilty? I agree. Murder? Probably not.

What I find disturbing the most is the brutal reality that if they switched their skin colour there would be zero media coverage and probably way milder punishment.

The so called fight against inequality and supposed oppression of black community has turned into a witch hunt of every white officer.

There are millions of police-civilian interactions each year and how many end up with an unarmed black person getting shot? Literally a needle in a haystack. Same applies for the gun rights issue - banning guns or taking away guns won't solve anything, it will most likely have the opposite effect.

Americans should aim to solve the issues at their roots and search for actual solutions. And no, the institution is not the issue.
Its 2nd Degree Murder, in Germany we would call it "Totschlag" and I think the verdict is fair.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on April 21, 2021, 11:53:53 am
Atleast there’s not gonna be any riots
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dokletian on April 21, 2021, 12:10:08 pm
Same applies for the gun rights issue - banning guns or taking away guns won't solve anything, it will most likely have the opposite effect.
I mean that's a seperate issue though I am interested in why restricting laws regarding firearms will have the opposite effect in your opinion?

(By opposite effect I suppose you mean more deaths etc.?)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 21, 2021, 02:11:25 pm
A man was in cuffs, on the ground with no possible way of being a threat. A police officer held his knee against his neck for 9 and a half minutes. Its not like he fell and accidentally killed him. He chose to put his knee on this guy and then held it there for over 9 minutes whilst the victim said he can't breathe. Idk seems kinda deliberate to me. Oh and by the way , we've known for years that kneeling on someone like that cuts off their air supply :3
I'm going to be honest with you. You know if you can talk your breathing because breath going through is how we talk. He was being choked but because he was talking that means at the moment he still breathing. You know before he lost consciousness and shit went bad.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 21, 2021, 02:13:44 pm
Same applies for the gun rights issue - banning guns or taking away guns won't solve anything, it will most likely have the opposite effect.
I mean that's a seperate issue though I am interested in why restricting laws regarding firearms will have the opposite effect in your opinion?

(By opposite effect I suppose you mean more deaths etc.?)

It could be a stretch but still my opinion is that the more guns you take away from normal, law abiding and mentally healthy citizens the likelihood of armed robberies, assaults and what not resulting in death or serious wounds of the victim will rise. Crime rate and mass shootings won't magically disappear nor drop down.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 21, 2021, 02:16:07 pm
A man was in cuffs, on the ground with no possible way of being a threat. A police officer held his knee against his neck for 9 and a half minutes. Its not like he fell and accidentally killed him. He chose to put his knee on this guy and then held it there for over 9 minutes whilst the victim said he can't breathe. Idk seems kinda deliberate to me. Oh and by the way , we've known for years that kneeling on someone like that cuts off their air supply :3
I'm going to be honest with you. You know if you can talk your breathing because breath going through is how we talk. He was being choked but because he was talking that means at the moment he still breathing. You know before he lost consciousness and shit went bad.

Maybe if he wasn't on drugs he could breathe easier as well, who knows. It's just sad that his criminal history and drug abuse has been just sweeped under the "hurr durr racism" carpet.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 21, 2021, 02:16:14 pm
A guilty verdict is the only positive outcome from this case. Won't bring George Floyd back but its justice and it sends the right message.

Guilty? I agree. Murder? Probably not.

What I find disturbing the most is the brutal reality that if they switched their skin colour there would be zero media coverage and probably way milder punishment.

The so called fight against inequality and supposed oppression of black community has turned into a witch hunt of every white officer.

There are millions of police-civilian interactions each year and how many end up with an unarmed black person getting shot? Literally a needle in a haystack. Same applies for the gun rights issue - banning guns or taking away guns won't solve anything, it will most likely have the opposite effect.

Americans should aim to solve the issues at their roots and search for actual solutions. And no, the institution is not the issue.
The Police are really violent in the US. To put this in perceptive my Dad and Two Uncles all got beaten by the cops. My Dad had hand cuffs on while they beat him.(Not sure the details on the other twl)Only one of my Uncles actually got arrested and charged with a crime and that was drug procession. So yeah the institution is definitely the issue.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 21, 2021, 02:20:36 pm
A guilty verdict is the only positive outcome from this case. Won't bring George Floyd back but its justice and it sends the right message.

Guilty? I agree. Murder? Probably not.

What I find disturbing the most is the brutal reality that if they switched their skin colour there would be zero media coverage and probably way milder punishment.

The so called fight against inequality and supposed oppression of black community has turned into a witch hunt of every white officer.

There are millions of police-civilian interactions each year and how many end up with an unarmed black person getting shot? Literally a needle in a haystack. Same applies for the gun rights issue - banning guns or taking away guns won't solve anything, it will most likely have the opposite effect.

Americans should aim to solve the issues at their roots and search for actual solutions. And no, the institution is not the issue.
The Police are really violent in the US. To put this in perceptive my Dad and Two Uncles all got beaten by the cops. My Dad had hand cuffs on while they beat him.(Not sure the details on the other twl)Only one of my Uncles actually got arrested and charged with a crime and that was drug procession. So yeah the institution is definitely the issue.

There are some bad apples in the US police just like anywhere in the world.

However I do agree US police needs some form of reform or change - as Caz mentioned the training period is just ridiculously short.

What my point is, is that systemic racism does not exist, not in the US.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on April 21, 2021, 02:28:29 pm
A man was in cuffs, on the ground with no possible way of being a threat. A police officer held his knee against his neck for 9 and a half minutes. Its not like he fell and accidentally killed him. He chose to put his knee on this guy and then held it there for over 9 minutes whilst the victim said he can't breathe. Idk seems kinda deliberate to me. Oh and by the way , we've known for years that kneeling on someone like that cuts off their air supply :3
I'm going to be honest with you. You know if you can talk your breathing because breath going through is how we talk. He was being choked but because he was talking that means at the moment he still breathing. You know before he lost consciousness and shit went bad.

Maybe if he wasn't on drugs he could breathe easier as well, who knows. It's just sad that his criminal history and drug abuse has been just sweeped under the "hurr durr racism" carpet.
Maybe if he didn't have a dudes knee on his neck he could breathe easier. Also yeah he wasn't perfect and had a past but that's not relevant.

Also I know he was talking throughout but if someone says they can't breathe, maybe you should release them from whatever hold you've got on them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: crazypro25. on April 21, 2021, 02:49:05 pm
Same applies for the gun rights issue - banning guns or taking away guns won't solve anything, it will most likely have the opposite effect.
I mean that's a seperate issue though I am interested in why restricting laws regarding firearms will have the opposite effect in your opinion?

(By opposite effect I suppose you mean more deaths etc.?)

It could be a stretch but still my opinion is that the more guns you take away from normal, law abiding and mentally healthy citizens the likelihood of armed robberies, assaults and what not resulting in death or serious wounds of the victim will rise. Crime rate and mass shootings won't magically disappear nor drop down.

On the other hand, if it is much harder to get firearms, logically the number of incidents must decrease. I mean, if you can't get your hands on a firearm as easily (as it is currently the case in the U.S.), you can't commit a crime with it as easily.

I can only recommend an article about firearms in the U.S. from a German newspaper: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/usa-ein-land-unter-waffen-in-sieben-grafiken-1.3694023 (I recommend DeepL https://www.deepl.com/translator if you want to translate it into english)

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dokletian on April 21, 2021, 03:07:57 pm
It could be a stretch but still my opinion is that the more guns you take away from normal, law abiding and mentally healthy citizens the likelihood of armed robberies, assaults and what not resulting in death or serious wounds of the victim will rise. Crime rate and mass shootings won't magically disappear nor drop down.
Don't you think that is a bit far-fetched? Why are there no similar problems in western-European countries then? The death rates (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/2010_homicide_suicide_rates_high-income_countries.png/325px-2010_homicide_suicide_rates_high-income_countries.png) in these countries are extremely low in comparison to the US.

In Australia (a country which used to be quite similarly liberal on firearm legislations) they heavily restricted the possession of guns after a mass shooting in 1996; since then there has been a significant drop in gun violence (about 75%). I think it is only realistic to assume that restrictions will not suddenly prevent gun violence but that cannot be an argument against less liberal legislations.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 21, 2021, 05:04:11 pm
A man was in cuffs, on the ground with no possible way of being a threat. A police officer held his knee against his neck for 9 and a half minutes. Its not like he fell and accidentally killed him. He chose to put his knee on this guy and then held it there for over 9 minutes whilst the victim said he can't breathe. Idk seems kinda deliberate to me. Oh and by the way , we've known for years that kneeling on someone like that cuts off their air supply :3
I'm going to be honest with you. You know if you can talk your breathing because breath going through is how we talk. He was being choked but because he was talking that means at the moment he still breathing. You know before he lost consciousness and shit went bad.

WTF are you talking about?
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/09/medical-experts-floyds-speech-didnt-mean-he-could-breathe

I have no idea what you're trying to convey but you sound fucking retarded. :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MrTiki on April 21, 2021, 08:21:58 pm
I'm going to be honest with you. You know if you can talk your breathing because breath going through is how we talk. He was being choked but because he was talking that means at the moment he still breathing.
I'll just briefly mention that you're completely and utterly wrong in that regard. There's a huge difference between inhalation (generating a small amount of negative pressure to suck air into your lungs) and speaking (creating positive pressure and forcing air out). It's the same reason that an Iron Lung is (technically) a much better way of ventilating patients than intubation, at least from the perspective of your lungs. Huge inconvenience for everything else though.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 21, 2021, 11:06:26 pm
A man was in cuffs, on the ground with no possible way of being a threat. A police officer held his knee against his neck for 9 and a half minutes. Its not like he fell and accidentally killed him. He chose to put his knee on this guy and then held it there for over 9 minutes whilst the victim said he can't breathe. Idk seems kinda deliberate to me. Oh and by the way , we've known for years that kneeling on someone like that cuts off their air supply :3
I'm going to be honest with you. You know if you can talk your breathing because breath going through is how we talk. He was being choked but because he was talking that means at the moment he still breathing. You know before he lost consciousness and shit went bad.

WTF are you talking about?
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/09/medical-experts-floyds-speech-didnt-mean-he-could-breathe

I have no idea what you're trying to convey but you sound fucking retarded. :)

All you can do is throw insults at anyone with different opinions?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on April 22, 2021, 12:19:52 am
Well it wasnt all he did.. he send you a link to prove his point, so its more valid than your 'statement'
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 22, 2021, 12:56:11 am
What my point is, is that systemic racism does not exist, not in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism#United_States

If I hear one more retard say this (especially an EU that has never actually seen a black person) I'm going to fucking kill myself. We get it bro. You don't like brown people. You don't have to hide it. Just own it. I swear, every time I see a post from you, you're always there puking up some shit take that shows your lack of knowledge/bias on a subject. From your shitty hockey takes to your braindead takes on US domestic issues. All your posts are pure unadulterated brain rot, please stop posting.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 22, 2021, 01:11:57 am
What my point is, is that systemic racism does not exist, not in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism#United_States

If I hear one more retard say this (especially an EU that has never actually seen a black person) I'm going to fucking kill myself. We get it bro. You don't like brown people. You don't have to hide it. Just own it. I swear, every time I see a post from you, you're always there puking up some shit take that shows your lack of knowledge/bias on a subject. From your shitty hockey takes to your braindead takes on US domestic issues. All your posts are pure unadulterated brain rot, please stop posting.

Nah, you don't get it and you will never get it seeing you being one of the illiterate libtard specimens that do nothing but assume and that can't comprehend simple facts.

And thanks for the wikipedia page, ain't reading it.

Now go ahead and kill yourself as you promised, thanks.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 22, 2021, 01:16:51 am
What my point is, is that systemic racism does not exist, not in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism#United_States

If I hear one more retard say this (especially an EU that has never actually seen a black person) I'm going to fucking kill myself. We get it bro. You don't like brown people. You don't have to hide it. Just own it. I swear, every time I see a post from you, you're always there puking up some shit take that shows your lack of knowledge/bias on a subject. From your shitty hockey takes to your braindead takes on US domestic issues. All your posts are pure unadulterated brain rot, please stop posting.

Nah, you don't get it and you will never get it seeing you being one of the illiterate libtard specimens that do nothing but assume and that can't comprehend simple facts.

And thanks for the wikipedia page, ain't reading it.

Now go ahead and kill yourself as you promised, thanks.

All you can do is throw insults at anyone with different opinions?

truly poetic
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 22, 2021, 01:18:22 am
What my point is, is that systemic racism does not exist, not in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism#United_States

If I hear one more retard say this (especially an EU that has never actually seen a black person) I'm going to fucking kill myself. We get it bro. You don't like brown people. You don't have to hide it. Just own it. I swear, every time I see a post from you, you're always there puking up some shit take that shows your lack of knowledge/bias on a subject. From your shitty hockey takes to your braindead takes on US domestic issues. All your posts are pure unadulterated brain rot, please stop posting.

Nah, you don't get it and you will never get it seeing you being one of the illiterate libtard specimens that do nothing but assume and that can't comprehend simple facts.

And thanks for the wikipedia page, ain't reading it.

Now go ahead and kill yourself as you promised, thanks.

All you can do is throw insults at anyone with different opinions?

truly poetic

hey, I simply replied in the same manner as you replied to me  ;)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 01:19:41 am
What my point is, is that systemic racism does not exist, not in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism#United_States

If I hear one more retard say this (especially an EU that has never actually seen a black person) I'm going to fucking kill myself. We get it bro. You don't like brown people. You don't have to hide it. Just own it. I swear, every time I see a post from you, you're always there puking up some shit take that shows your lack of knowledge/bias on a subject. From your shitty hockey takes to your braindead takes on US domestic issues. All your posts are pure unadulterated brain rot, please stop posting.

I agree that systemic racism exists in the US. Let's fix it. I demand that the NBA has more white players in it, more top cultural influencers be white, more whites in the NFL, WHITE HISTORY MONTH IN MARCH and all the US based companies put up white page posts to support all the white cops that are killed by blacks. Also, I demand a time machine so Obama never became president.







Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 22, 2021, 01:24:13 am
What my point is, is that systemic racism does not exist, not in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism#United_States

If I hear one more retard say this (especially an EU that has never actually seen a black person) I'm going to fucking kill myself. We get it bro. You don't like brown people. You don't have to hide it. Just own it. I swear, every time I see a post from you, you're always there puking up some shit take that shows your lack of knowledge/bias on a subject. From your shitty hockey takes to your braindead takes on US domestic issues. All your posts are pure unadulterated brain rot, please stop posting.

Nah, you don't get it and you will never get it seeing you being one of the illiterate libtard specimens that do nothing but assume and that can't comprehend simple facts.

And thanks for the wikipedia page, ain't reading it.

Now go ahead and kill yourself as you promised, thanks.

All you can do is throw insults at anyone with different opinions?

truly poetic

hey, I simply replied in the same manner as you replied to me  ;)

Yeah, I'm okay with shit talking but don't act like you're better than it in one post, then do it the next. Also, I would love to hear some of these "simple facts" about how systemic racism doesn't exist.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 22, 2021, 01:25:27 am
Goomba are you one of those savages that go and loot and destroy others' property? Wouldn't be surprised.

What my point is, is that systemic racism does not exist, not in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism#United_States

If I hear one more retard say this (especially an EU that has never actually seen a black person) I'm going to fucking kill myself. We get it bro. You don't like brown people. You don't have to hide it. Just own it. I swear, every time I see a post from you, you're always there puking up some shit take that shows your lack of knowledge/bias on a subject. From your shitty hockey takes to your braindead takes on US domestic issues. All your posts are pure unadulterated brain rot, please stop posting.

Nah, you don't get it and you will never get it seeing you being one of the illiterate libtard specimens that do nothing but assume and that can't comprehend simple facts.

And thanks for the wikipedia page, ain't reading it.

Now go ahead and kill yourself as you promised, thanks.

All you can do is throw insults at anyone with different opinions?

truly poetic

hey, I simply replied in the same manner as you replied to me  ;)

Yeah, I'm okay with shit talking but don't act like you're better than it in one post, then do it the next. Also, I would love to hear some of these "simple facts" about how systemic racism doesn't exist.

Nono, Ledger just proved me wrong. Doesn't matter anyway as the thought behind my post was that there is no discrimination of blacks by the system.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 01:26:26 am
Goomba are you one of those savages that go and loot and destroy others' property? Wouldn't be surprised.

He's a soy geek, that's why. He's never worked with blacks before 100%.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 22, 2021, 01:29:06 am
Goomba are you one of those savages that go and loot and destroy others' property? Wouldn't be surprised.
No, actually, I think that people shouldn't destroy others' private property, and owners should be allowed to defend it. Pretty funny how you've already made assumptions about me because you're incapable of thinking in a nuanced manner. Also, nice pivot, so I'll ask again: what are these "simple facts" that disprove systemic racism?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 01:30:07 am
Goomba are you one of those savages that go and loot and destroy others' property? Wouldn't be surprised.
No, actually, I think that people shouldn't destroy others' private property, and owners should be allowed to defend it. Pretty funny how you've already made assumptions about me because you're incapable of thinking in a nuanced manner. Also, nice pivot, so I'll ask again: what are these "simple facts" that disprove systemic racism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 22, 2021, 01:30:11 am
Goomba are you one of those savages that go and loot and destroy others' property? Wouldn't be surprised.

He's a soy geek, that's why. He's never worked with blacks before 100%.
oh great another EU that has never actually seen a black person not on TV also your last post was mad funny bro my sides were truly in orbit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 01:34:15 am
Goomba are you one of those savages that go and loot and destroy others' property? Wouldn't be surprised.

He's a soy geek, that's why. He's never worked with blacks before 100%.
oh great another EU that has never actually seen a black person not on TV also your last post was mad funny bro my sides were truly in orbit

I've worked with black people in a corporate environment where they've had all the power and privileges due to HR being specifically designed to placate to their whims and wishes.

Most blacks are fucked in life due to their own actions not cause of "Systemic racism".
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on April 22, 2021, 01:39:26 am
My work won't let me say the n word and its not fair :'(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 22, 2021, 01:41:04 am
Goomba are you one of those savages that go and loot and destroy others' property? Wouldn't be surprised.
No, actually, I think that people shouldn't destroy others' private property, and owners should be allowed to defend it. Pretty funny how you've already made assumptions about me because you're incapable of thinking in a nuanced manner. Also, nice pivot, so I'll ask again: what are these "simple facts" that disprove systemic racism?

Blacks have literally the same opportunities as anyone else and even more (affirmative action), lol. The fact you have had a black president, that there are blacks in the congress etc. literally proves my point.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 22, 2021, 02:07:37 am
this is a joke right
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 22, 2021, 03:04:44 am
Goomba are you one of those savages that go and loot and destroy others' property? Wouldn't be surprised.
No, actually, I think that people shouldn't destroy others' private property, and owners should be allowed to defend it. Pretty funny how you've already made assumptions about me because you're incapable of thinking in a nuanced manner. Also, nice pivot, so I'll ask again: what are these "simple facts" that disprove systemic racism?

Blacks have literally the same opportunities as anyone else and even more (affirmative action), lol. The fact you have had a black president, that there are blacks in the congress etc. literally proves my point.
You don't even know what systemic racism is you fucking dumbass. Systemic racism doesn't mean that black people can't be successful, obviously, they can be. It means that there are still black people being affected by forms of racism that are embedded within laws and society. The reality is that in the United States black people were and still are in some cases affected by things such as redlining, harsher prison sentencing, and voter disenfranchisement  (see Wikipedia I linked and https://www.acluofnorthcarolina.org/en/news/block-vote-voter-suppression-2020 and https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/north-carolina-voting-rights-law/493649/) These targeted attacks on black people combined with the US government looking the other way created downstream effects where many black families/communities have been left impoverished for generations, and obviously impoverished populations are more prone to drugs, violence, prostitution, gangs, etc. I don't know why people act like things such as Jim Crow, segregation, and other forms of state-sponsored racism were so long ago, they weren't.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on April 22, 2021, 04:40:03 am
Goomba are you one of those savages that go and loot and destroy others' property? Wouldn't be surprised.
No, actually, I think that people shouldn't destroy others' private property, and owners should be allowed to defend it. Pretty funny how you've already made assumptions about me because you're incapable of thinking in a nuanced manner. Also, nice pivot, so I'll ask again: what are these "simple facts" that disprove systemic racism?

Blacks have literally the same opportunities as anyone else and even more (affirmative action), lol. The fact you have had a black president, that there are blacks in the congress etc. literally proves my point.
You don't even know what systemic racism is you fucking dumbass. Systemic racism doesn't mean that black people can't be successful, obviously, they can be. It means that there are still black people being affected by forms of racism that are embedded within laws and society. The reality is that in the United States black people were and still are in some cases affected by things such as redlining, harsher prison sentencing, and voter disenfranchisement  (see Wikipedia I linked and https://www.acluofnorthcarolina.org/en/news/block-vote-voter-suppression-2020 and https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/north-carolina-voting-rights-law/493649/) These targeted attacks on black people combined with the US government looking the other way created downstream effects where many black families/communities have been left impoverished for generations, and obviously impoverished populations are more prone to drugs, violence, prostitution, gangs, etc. I don't know why people act like things such as Jim Crow, segregation, and other forms of state-sponsored racism were so long ago, they weren't.
If you can't even present any form of identification then you shouldn't be allowed to vote. It's not difficult to get an ID even if you don't have a driver's license.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on April 22, 2021, 04:47:17 am
I never really understood how voter ID laws are considered racist. You should be able to prove who you are. I dont think Ive ever met someone without an ID
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 22, 2021, 05:24:44 am
]If you can't even present any form of identification then you shouldn't be allowed to vote. It's not difficult to get an ID even if you don't have a driver's license.

Voting should be made as easy as possible for as many people as possible, considering that large-scale voter fraud has never been proved all barriers should be lowered where possible.

I never really understood how voter ID laws are considered racist. You should be able to prove who you are. I dont think Ive ever met someone without an ID
Ignoring your dumbass anecdote, the reason they are considered racist is that sometimes there is action taken to actively prevent minorities from receiving ids. Case and point in 2016 the North Carolina state legislature was taken to court for the following: "In this one statute, the North Carolina legislature imposed a number of voting restrictions. The law required in-person voters to show certain photo IDs, beginning in 2016, which African Americans disproportionately lacked, and eliminated or reduced registration and voting access tools that African Americans disproportionately used. Id. at *9-10, *37, *123,*127, *131. Moreover, as the district court found, prior to enactment of SL 2013-381, the legislature requested and received racial data as to usage of the practices changed by the proposed law. "Later on the court document says this "In response to claims that intentional racial discrimination animated its action, the State offered only meager justifications. Although the new provisions target African Americans with almost surgical precision, they constitute inapt remedies for the problems assertedly justifying them and, in fact, impose cures for problems that did not exist." Pretty fucked up to attempt to suppress one of the most fundamental constitutional rights if you ask me.

Sources: https://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/nc-4th.pdf and https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/

Similarly, in 2015, Alabama closed down a bunch of DMVs that also targeted black people. I'm too lazy to quote again so you can read more here if you care. https://www.al.com/opinion/2017/01/as_it_turns_out_bentleys_drive.html
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 22, 2021, 05:46:49 am
you require an ID to vote in Canada which I think is perfectly valid
before every election eligible voters are mailed a letter reminding them to register and informing them that they need a valid id to do so
having an id to vote seems reasonable and protects the democratic process. if it disproportionally affects a minority group its the lack of id that should be addressed, not the requirement to vote
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 22, 2021, 06:00:34 am
A man was in cuffs, on the ground with no possible way of being a threat. A police officer held his knee against his neck for 9 and a half minutes. Its not like he fell and accidentally killed him. He chose to put his knee on this guy and then held it there for over 9 minutes whilst the victim said he can't breathe. Idk seems kinda deliberate to me. Oh and by the way , we've known for years that kneeling on someone like that cuts off their air supply :3
I'm going to be honest with you. You know if you can talk your breathing because breath going through is how we talk. He was being choked but because he was talking that means at the moment he still breathing. You know before he lost consciousness and shit went bad.

WTF are you talking about?
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/09/medical-experts-floyds-speech-didnt-mean-he-could-breathe

I have no idea what you're trying to convey but you sound fucking retarded. :)
Hello person on the internet, I said a wrong piece of infomation as even the article point out a common piece of misinformation in the US. In my previous experiences of being choked out I could not talk while I had a arm around my neck chocking me so I just used assumed the information was true. Have a nice day retard
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BabyJesus on April 22, 2021, 06:03:52 am
]If you can't even present any form of identification then you shouldn't be allowed to vote. It's not difficult to get an ID even if you don't have a driver's license.

Voting should be made as easy as possible for as many people as possible, considering that large-scale voter fraud has never been proved all barriers should be lowered where possible.

I never really understood how voter ID laws are considered racist. You should be able to prove who you are. I dont think Ive ever met someone without an ID
Ignoring your dumbass anecdote, the reason they are considered racist is that sometimes there is action taken to actively prevent minorities from receiving ids. Case and point in 2016 the North Carolina state legislature was taken to court for the following: "In this one statute, the North Carolina legislature imposed a number of voting restrictions. The law required in-person voters to show certain photo IDs, beginning in 2016, which African Americans disproportionately lacked, and eliminated or reduced registration and voting access tools that African Americans disproportionately used. Id. at *9-10, *37, *123,*127, *131. Moreover, as the district court found, prior to enactment of SL 2013-381, the legislature requested and received racial data as to usage of the practices changed by the proposed law. "Later on the court document says this "In response to claims that intentional racial discrimination animated its action, the State offered only meager justifications. Although the new provisions target African Americans with almost surgical precision, they constitute inapt remedies for the problems assertedly justifying them and, in fact, impose cures for problems that did not exist." Pretty fucked up to attempt to suppress one of the most fundamental constitutional rights if you ask me.

Sources: https://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/nc-4th.pdf and https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/

Similarly, in 2015, Alabama closed down a bunch of DMVs that also targeted black people. I'm too lazy to quote again so you can read more here if you care. https://www.al.com/opinion/2017/01/as_it_turns_out_bentleys_drive.html
Ok so  if their gonna do stuff  like that (Make voting id required and then close all the places to get an ID in certain areas) then i  understand why it might be  considered suppression. But i still think requiring  a voter id is perfectly valid as long  as people have access to it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 22, 2021, 08:44:04 am
I dont get why eastern europeans, who have a notorious low count of migrants are so fucking racist all the time
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dokletian on April 22, 2021, 09:32:32 am
There can‘t be sexism in Germany because we have Angela Merkel as chancellor
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 22, 2021, 12:26:18 pm
I dont get why eastern europeans, who have a notorious low count of migrants are so fucking racist all the time
>German
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 22, 2021, 12:28:43 pm
I dont get why eastern europeans, who have a notorious low count of migrants are so fucking racist all the time
>German
Insightful Argument
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 22, 2021, 12:30:01 pm
I dont get why eastern europeans, who have a notorious low count of migrants are so fucking racist all the time
>German
Insightful Argument
and now think about what you said
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 22, 2021, 12:45:44 pm
I dont get why eastern europeans, who have a notorious low count of migrants are so fucking racist all the time

Mhm, I'm racist because I disagree with systemic racism. That's like calling you a Nazi because you're a German.

Both arguments are nonsense.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fralla8 on April 22, 2021, 12:46:13 pm
Goomba are you one of those savages that go and loot and destroy others' property? Wouldn't be surprised.

He's a soy geek, that's why. He's never worked with blacks before 100%.
oh great another EU that has never actually seen a black person not on TV also your last post was mad funny bro my sides were truly in orbit
You don't think black people exist in Europe?!?
Fucking racist slag
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 22, 2021, 02:03:31 pm
I dont get why eastern europeans, who have a notorious low count of migrants are so fucking racist all the time
>German
Insightful Argument
and now think about what you said
Statistically eastern europe has a very low percentage of migrants, but are dominantly rightwing and anti immigrant. I dont get that. You said im German. Please explain this to me like im 5
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 22, 2021, 02:46:04 pm
I dont get why eastern europeans, who have a notorious low count of migrants are so fucking racist all the time
>German
Insightful Argument
and now think about what you said
Statistically eastern europe has a very low percentage of migrants, but are dominantly rightwing and anti immigrant. I dont get that. You said im German. Please explain this to me like im 5
I was simply flinging back at you the (racist) assumption that you made about a group of people based on where they are geographically from. As for the argument you are making about migrants, I fail to see the connection or relevance?

As per the official OECD numbers: Permanent inflows as a share of population (%) 2019
Poland 0.5
Czechia 0.6
Hungary 0.6
Germany 0.7

So using your logic am I correct in saying that Germans are "so fucking racist all the time" due to having approximately the same migration numbers as these racist Eastern European countries?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 02:48:00 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 22, 2021, 03:12:34 pm
I am going to start to wear PPE when I browse the forums because I don’t want to breathe the same air as you retards

Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
History aint on your side BRUTHER
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on April 22, 2021, 03:13:06 pm
Negro had it coming
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 03:16:28 pm
I am going to start to wear PPE when I browse the forums because I don’t want to breathe the same air as you retards

Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
History aint on your side BRUTHER

You're right,  history ain't on my side. Just look at whites being slaves in 19th century Africa or the systemic racism in South Africa
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 03:16:53 pm
Negro had it coming

Should have given him 5 warning shots to the chest tbh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 22, 2021, 03:30:10 pm
You're right on systematic racism against black people in South Africa at least.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_South_Africa
The black population stands at nearly 75% of the population, the white population makes up 12%, the mixed race category makes up 11%, and Asians and Indians make up 3%. Data made available by CNN presented that white South Africans earn nearly three times the average wage made by black South Africans, who take up the overwhelming majority of the workforce population.[8] Data shows that the widening and intergenerational gap is disproportionately affecting the black South Africans. The World Bank estimates that South Africa would need to double the amount of jobs created every year, in order to see a significant reduction. The service sector dominates the homogenous workforce, and the low skilled manufacturing or agricultural jobs are declining. South Africa is on track to produce a more polarized country in multiple categories, leaving the lower income classes with less opportunity to grow and a lack of exposure to education or other ingredients for growth across generations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_South_Africa
Violence from both sides, perhaps politcians have been more racist towards whites but meh.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Janne on April 22, 2021, 03:31:17 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 22, 2021, 03:32:14 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

Damn at least someone gets it! :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 03:39:28 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

I'm pretty sure rioting, crying about "systemic racism", destroying small businesses that could employ them helps them out a lot. They have the power to fix their own lives but they choose not to. Victim mindset is far more appealing than getting after it, working hard and finding a way to get out of poverty. Point stands, most of them are LOSERS.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Janne on April 22, 2021, 03:56:41 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

I'm pretty sure rioting, crying about "systemic racism", destroying small businesses that could employ them helps them out a lot. They have the power to fix their own lives but they choose not to. Victim mindset is far more appealing than getting after it, working hard and finding a way to get out of poverty.
le epic bootstraps memes. do you think all white people born in poverty make their way out?

also why arent you studying to become a doctor and rather be lazy and shit on black people on the internet, maybe you're the low iq one?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 04:07:20 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

I'm pretty sure rioting, crying about "systemic racism", destroying small businesses that could employ them helps them out a lot. They have the power to fix their own lives but they choose not to. Victim mindset is far more appealing than getting after it, working hard and finding a way to get out of poverty.
le epic bootstraps memes. do you think all white people born in poverty make their way out?

also why arent you studying to become a doctor and rather be lazy and shit on black people on the internet, maybe you're the low iq one?

Do they have the power to get out of poverty > Yes. Will it be hard > Yes. Does crying fix anything > No. Are most of them crying > Yes. Does Crying about things that you can change and taking no action make you a loser moron that takes no responsibility for their life > Yes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Janne on April 22, 2021, 04:08:43 pm
 ???
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on April 22, 2021, 04:08:50 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

I'm pretty sure rioting, crying about "systemic racism", destroying small businesses that could employ them helps them out a lot. They have the power to fix their own lives but they choose not to. Victim mindset is far more appealing than getting after it, working hard and finding a way to get out of poverty.
le epic bootstraps memes. do you think all white people born in poverty make their way out?

also why arent you studying to become a doctor and rather be lazy and shit on black people on the internet, maybe you're the low iq one?

If you live in the US, being born poor is circumstance but dying poor is a choice.

Will not explain
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 22, 2021, 04:13:10 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

yes, they have the same legal rights as white people, thanks for proving us that racism from the institutional standpoint does not exist  ;D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Janne on April 22, 2021, 04:14:12 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

I'm pretty sure rioting, crying about "systemic racism", destroying small businesses that could employ them helps them out a lot. They have the power to fix their own lives but they choose not to. Victim mindset is far more appealing than getting after it, working hard and finding a way to get out of poverty.
le epic bootstraps memes. do you think all white people born in poverty make their way out?

also why arent you studying to become a doctor and rather be lazy and shit on black people on the internet, maybe you're the low iq one?

If you live in the US, being born poor is circumstance but dying poor is a choice.

Will not explain
why haven't you made the decision to get higher education and move to study in harvard? instead you spend your time spouting racist shit on the forums. it's that simple.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Janne on April 22, 2021, 04:15:08 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

yes, they have the same legal rights as white people, thanks for proving us that racism from the institutional standpoint does not exist  ;D
please read the Wikipedia articles linked previously, because you still don't even know what institutional racism means
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 22, 2021, 04:15:50 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

yes, they have the same legal rights as white people, thanks for proving us that racism from the institutional standpoint does not exist  ;D

The law might be fair at this point in time but the system aint.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 04:17:52 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

yes, they have the same legal rights as white people, thanks for proving us that racism from the institutional standpoint does not exist  ;D

The law might be fair at this point in time but the system aint.

good thing derek chauvin was found not guilty oh wait
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on April 22, 2021, 04:22:43 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

yes, they have the same legal rights as white people, thanks for proving us that racism from the institutional standpoint does not exist  ;D

The law might be fair at this point in time but the system aint.

good thing derek chauvin was found not guilty oh wait
You ever heard about Brailsford? For every Derek Chauvin there are others who arent found guilty.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 22, 2021, 04:23:04 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

yes, they have the same legal rights as white people, thanks for proving us that racism from the institutional standpoint does not exist  ;D

The law might be fair at this point in time but the system aint.

good thing derek chauvin was found not guilty oh wait
You're really narrow minded.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 22, 2021, 04:33:07 pm
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

yes, they have the same legal rights as white people, thanks for proving us that racism from the institutional standpoint does not exist  ;D
please read the Wikipedia articles linked previously, because you still don't even know what institutional racism means

"Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a form of racism that is embedded through laws within society or an organization."

Quote
yes, they have the same legal rights as white people, thanks for proving us that racism from the institutional standpoint does not exist  ;D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 04:35:32 pm
Most of you left-wingers are losers that want to blame people's shortfalls on external factors. Excuse making machines.

"But... But... But... Systemic racism.... muh political science degree.... but... but... but..." ABSOLUTE DORKS
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on April 22, 2021, 04:57:10 pm
Most of you left-wingers are losers that want to blame people's shortfalls on external factors. Excuse making machines.

"But... But... But... Systemic racism.... muh political science degree.... but... but... but..." ABSOLUTE DORKS
What makes you the expert? You feeling like it? Do you lived in every country this discussion was about? Do you wrote scientific articles about these problems?
You act like you have the ultimate proof that your point is wrong, but from my perspective it looks like
" But but the immigrants have such good life, everybody cares for them but nobody cares for me. My problem bigger than theirs!"

Yeah, the black people in the US arent slaves anymore and yes they have rights. But everywhere in the world its the same. To become rich and successfull its a good start to have parents who are rich and successfull. And with a population which was suppressed at least till the late 60s or early 70s, there cant be that many rich and successfull black people.
So yeah, you could say the poor people are suppressed in the US, but with a majority of the black and latino people you could connect the dots. Just look at the University costs in the US or the non-employment quota.
Then there is the problem with white supremacy in the US society. Its not like they are a majority or something, but they exist, they have weapons and some of them are in the police force.
So we have poor people who have it hard to fight their way out.
We have a many poor black people.
We have white supremacists in important positions.
Call it whatever you want, but there is a problem.
We call it institutional racism.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 22, 2021, 05:27:59 pm
Most of you left-wingers are losers that want to blame people's shortfalls on external factors. Excuse making machines.

"But... But... But... Systemic racism.... muh political science degree.... but... but... but..." ABSOLUTE DORKS
What makes you the expert? You feeling like it? Do you lived in every country this discussion was about? Do you wrote scientific articles about these problems?
You act like you have the ultimate proof that your point is wrong, but from my perspective it looks like
" But but the immigrants have such good life, everybody cares for them but nobody cares for me. My problem bigger than theirs!"

Yeah, the black people in the US arent slaves anymore and yes they have rights. But everywhere in the world its the same. To become rich and successfull its a good start to have parents who are rich and successfull. And with a population which was suppressed at least till the late 60s or early 70s, there cant be that many rich and successfull black people.
So yeah, you could say the poor people are suppressed in the US, but with a majority of the black and latino people you could connect the dots. Just look at the University costs in the US or the non-employment quota.
Then there is the problem with white supremacy in the US society. Its not like they are a majority or something, but they exist, they have weapons and some of them are in the police force.
So we have poor people who have it hard to fight their way out.
We have a many poor black people.
We have white supremacists in important positions.
Call it whatever you want, but there is a problem.
We call it institutional racism.

and you are wrong
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on April 22, 2021, 05:34:28 pm
It’s truly astounding how the right wing narrative on Floyd went from “His death was regrettable but rioting won’t solve anything” to “Chauvin did us all a service by ridding us of that fentanyl-addicted gangbanger” in the span of 10 months. 

It took the mainstream conservatives a bit to catch up, which is entirely understandable when your donors and constituents want to send the same bigoted message but with different degrees of tone.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 05:41:30 pm
Drugged up and resisted arrest. The left loves to make losers their saints.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on April 22, 2021, 05:49:39 pm
If there is a land where everyone who is on drugs and resists the police should be killed on open street I dont want to live there.
There is no reason to kill someone who isnt activly trying to kill you and even then you should choose any other option as long as it also saves your life. He was sourrounded by like 6 cops and they had plenty of time to check his pockets to find any weapon. Why was it important to kill him? It doesnt matter if he was a lawyer with a harvard Degree or a homeless drug user who lives under a bridge. He deserved to live. So someone who took his life should be punished, especially if it was a racist reason.
He is not a saint or a hero, he is just a helpless victim.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 22, 2021, 05:57:29 pm
Imagine doing 10min of research before you start uttering stupid opinions in public.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 22, 2021, 05:58:37 pm
Drugged up and resisted arrest. The left loves to make losers their saints.
you are a sick man and I truly hope you never have Power over someone
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 22, 2021, 06:01:56 pm
Imagine doing 10min of research before you start uttering stupid opinions in public.
Ha this is a privately owned website, so in reality we're not in public space.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Janne on April 22, 2021, 06:13:25 pm
Imagine doing 10min of research before you start uttering stupid opinions in public.
Ha this is a privately owned website, so in reality we're not in public space.
holy fucking shit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 06:17:51 pm
Drugged up and resisted arrest. The left loves to make losers their saints.
you are a sick man and I truly hope you never have Power over someone

I'm an all around nice guy. Fat people should be shamed and people resisting arrest should have force used upon them.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on April 22, 2021, 06:26:13 pm
Drugged up and resisted arrest. The left loves to make losers their saints.
you are a sick man and I truly hope you never have Power over someone

I'm an all around nice guy. Fat people should be shamed and people resisting arrest should have force used upon them.
There is a little difference you may notice between force used and fucking killed
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 22, 2021, 06:27:29 pm
Drugged up and resisted arrest. The left loves to make losers their saints.
you are a sick man and I truly hope you never have Power over someone

I'm an all around nice guy. Fat people should be shamed and people resisting arrest should have force used upon them.
There is a little difference you may notice between force used and fucking killed

I can't wait for them to lock up the drugs that were in his system.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on April 22, 2021, 06:40:28 pm
Why do Drug addictives have to die?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Janne on April 22, 2021, 06:41:39 pm
also reminder that he actually died because he had a police offer kneeling on his neck for 7 minutes
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 22, 2021, 06:47:14 pm
also reminder that he actually died because he had a police offer kneeling on his neck for 7 minutes
Assuming all drugs addicts are men named George Floyd
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Janne on April 22, 2021, 06:49:16 pm
also reminder that he actually died because he had a police offer kneeling on his neck for 7 minutes
Assuming all drugs addicts are men named George Floyd
literally what the fuck are you on about? i dont think ive ever met anyone so incapable of making any sense.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 22, 2021, 06:50:26 pm
If there is a land where everyone who is on drugs and resists the police should be killed on open street I dont want to live there.
There is no reason to kill someone who isnt activly trying to kill you and even then you should choose any other option as long as it also saves your life. He was sourrounded by like 6 cops and they had plenty of time to check his pockets to find any weapon. Why was it important to kill him? It doesnt matter if he was a lawyer with a harvard Degree or a homeless drug user who lives under a bridge. He deserved to live. So someone who took his life should be punished, especially if it was a racist reason.
He is not a saint or a hero, he is just a helpless victim.

but he wasn't actively trying to kill him
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on April 22, 2021, 06:51:13 pm
Spoiler
Most of you left-wingers are losers that want to blame people's shortfalls on external factors. Excuse making machines.

"But... But... But... Systemic racism.... muh political science degree.... but... but... but..." ABSOLUTE DORKS
What makes you the expert? You feeling like it? Do you lived in every country this discussion was about? Do you wrote scientific articles about these problems?
You act like you have the ultimate proof that your point is wrong, but from my perspective it looks like
" But but the immigrants have such good life, everybody cares for them but nobody cares for me. My problem bigger than theirs!"

Yeah, the black people in the US arent slaves anymore and yes they have rights. But everywhere in the world its the same. To become rich and successfull its a good start to have parents who are rich and successfull. And with a population which was suppressed at least till the late 60s or early 70s, there cant be that many rich and successfull black people.
So yeah, you could say the poor people are suppressed in the US, but with a majority of the black and latino people you could connect the dots. Just look at the University costs in the US or the non-employment quota.

Then there is the problem with white supremacy in the US society. Its not like they are a majority or something, but they exist, they have weapons and some of them are in the police force.
So we have poor people who have it hard to fight their way out.
We have a many poor black people.
We have white supremacists in important positions.
Call it whatever you want, but there is a problem.
We call it institutional racism.
[close]
There are immigrants who come into the US with little or no money but find ways to make a good living. If they can do it then everyone has the opportunity to. I do agree major university costs are too expensive but if someone can't afford it then they can just go to trade school. Trade schools are way cheaper and you can find jobs where you make 6 figures. I know quite a bit of people who are doing wielding and are doing better off than people who went 4 years to an expensive school. There are so many resources for students nowadays that if they fail to succeed it is because of their own doing and not anyone else.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 22, 2021, 06:54:13 pm
also reminder that he actually died because he had a police offer kneeling on his neck for 7 minutes
Assuming all drugs addicts are men named George Floyd
literally what the fuck are you on about? i dont think ive ever met anyone so incapable of making any sense.
Well you've met me
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Wencosa on April 22, 2021, 07:34:39 pm
Holy fucking shit, we are all fucked. Fall of Rome with internet access. Progressive commies on one side, now coming from the West instead of the East (even tho Lenin and Marx were a Western export but anyways...) and a worrying Russian wannabe empire again on the East. Meanwhile the EU is turning itself into a USSR 2.0 Hurray to the future in central Europe! I do read and believe everything in the mainstream media, the autopsy is real, even if he did not kill him intentionally, lets make an example of him and satisfy the pitchofork mob. :) (Ondřej Kůdela from Slavia Praha says HI) There is no propaganda in democracy right ?! - a racist, white supremacist, cant have opinions on people you have not met, I only read fake news websites, dirty eastern "european" Sorry for this incoherent mess, something in me just wanted to write this shit. :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dokletian on April 22, 2021, 08:05:18 pm
Meanwhile the EU is turning itself into a USSR 2.0
laughed

about people who say this unironically
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Wencosa on April 22, 2021, 08:44:09 pm
We will see how long we are going to be able to laugh about everything. Free speech laws say hi.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DayBoul on April 23, 2021, 12:32:04 am
china just take us over already, we done fucked up


I dont get why eastern europeans, who have a notorious low count of migrants are so fucking racist all the time
>German
Insightful Argument
and now think about what you said
Statistically eastern europe has a very low percentage of migrants, but are dominantly rightwing and anti immigrant. I dont get that. You said im German. Please explain this to me like im 5
I was simply flinging back at you the (racist) assumption that you made about a group of people based on where they are geographically from. As for the argument you are making about migrants, I fail to see the connection or relevance?

As per the official OECD numbers: Permanent inflows as a share of population (%) 2019
Poland 0.5
Czechia 0.6
Hungary 0.6
Germany 0.7

So using your logic am I correct in saying that Germans are "so fucking racist all the time" due to having approximately the same migration numbers as these racist Eastern European countries?
he probably meant racial diversity, not immigrants per say which is just a legal status. In that case he'd be correct, germany does have larger ethnic minority groups, while czechia for instance is sitting at like 0.5% non-whites - as far as we know -, most of which are vietnamese, so not even a problematic one

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hess on April 23, 2021, 12:33:45 am
im based
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on April 23, 2021, 02:52:39 am
Imagine thinking the US is systemically racist lmao.

Just cause blacks are poor and dumb doesn't mean the system is fucked. There's a reason behind their high incarceration rates and poverty. The vast majority of that stems from their own actions. Single mothers deciding to get dicked by losers, losers not taking ownership and doing dumb shit that gets them locked up or killed by a cop.

Call out losers for what they are. Losers. The "Systemic" racism myth is rooted in victimhood and excuses.
just a reminder that there are still people alive that lived under jim crow laws. instead of thinking all black people are just inherently low iq, you should understand that the conditions black people in the us are right now is due to a long history of slavery and oppressions. the impact of these policies just doesn't magically disappear when you finally start getting the same legal rights as white people. poverty breeds poverty, which is true for white people as well.

yes, they have the same legal rights as white people, thanks for proving us that racism from the institutional standpoint does not exist  ;D
please read the Wikipedia articles linked previously, because you still don't even know what institutional racism means

"Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a form of racism that is embedded through laws within society or an organization."

Quote
yes, they have the same legal rights as white people, thanks for proving us that racism from the institutional standpoint does not exist  ;D
i'm cringing at the fact that you think you did something here lol

it's way broader than legislation (as it literally says in the definition) and you're either ignoring it or just too dumb to realize it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 23, 2021, 12:37:10 pm
And another one  ::)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 23, 2021, 12:53:00 pm
I do wonder if you guys ever read sources that dont peddle to your conformation bias
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 23, 2021, 02:09:06 pm
I do wonder if you guys ever read sources that dont peddle to your conformation bias
You think we use sources lmao
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 23, 2021, 08:57:17 pm
I do wonder if you guys ever read sources that dont peddle to your conformation bias

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/645/935/f6c.png)

Will not explain.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 23, 2021, 09:01:20 pm
I do wonder if you guys ever read sources that dont peddle to your conformation bias

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/645/935/f6c.png)

Will not explain.
I really hope you are trolling
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fralla8 on April 23, 2021, 09:29:31 pm
Took two days to realise you're being hard baited that's pretty epic
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Axiom on April 23, 2021, 09:33:15 pm
I do wonder if you guys ever read sources that dont peddle to your conformation bias

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/645/935/f6c.png)

Will not explain.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 23, 2021, 10:39:18 pm
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/6kGliTj.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 24, 2021, 01:14:01 am
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/6kGliTj.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on April 24, 2021, 01:20:44 am
>YOU'RE SERIOUSLY NOT GONNA PROVIDE A SOURCE?!??!?!

(https://i.imgur.com/MHmGjTb.png)

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 24, 2021, 01:23:45 am
They just called u retarded btw ledge, in case u didn't get that
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fralla8 on April 24, 2021, 12:43:25 pm
Hey
Ledge
You're RETARDED
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Gringo on April 24, 2021, 02:07:29 pm
Fucking racist cops killed a harmless Black guy again! Stop white racism! #BLM

https://twitter.com/CaldronPool/status/1385472671303958529
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 24, 2021, 02:16:13 pm
Fucking racist cops killed a harmless Black guy again! Stop white racism! #BLM

https://twitter.com/CaldronPool/status/1385472671303958529

Honestly the cop who shot the kid who tried to kill the other kid should get a life sentence! Stop overpolicing in problematic black neighbourhoods! Defund the police! Preventing the blacks from killing each other is racist!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 24, 2021, 04:43:23 pm
Fucking racist cops killed a harmless Black guy again! Stop white racism! #BLM

https://twitter.com/CaldronPool/status/1385472671303958529

Honestly the cop who shot the kid who tried to kill the other kid should get a life sentence! Stop overpolicing in problematic black neighbourhoods! Defund the police! Preventing the blacks from killing each other is racist!

You two are talking about two different instances one of which I don't know jack shit about, so I won't comment.

When it comes to the recent shooting of the 16 year old girl in Colombus, Ohio it would seem the cop is in the right from the bodycam footage, but all shootings that lead to death deserve to be investigated.
So Î'll wait for the investigation to finish before I make any real comment, cause I'm not retarded like you. :)

>YOU'RE SERIOUSLY NOT GONNA PROVIDE A SOURCE?!??!?!

(https://i.imgur.com/MHmGjTb.png)



I remember when the far-right claimed to be from rational and logic, they were wrong and retarded. So it's refreshing that you have dropped the act and embraced that you are retarded.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 24, 2021, 05:20:28 pm
Fucking racist cops killed a harmless Black guy again! Stop white racism! #BLM

https://twitter.com/CaldronPool/status/1385472671303958529

Honestly the cop who shot the kid who tried to kill the other kid should get a life sentence! Stop overpolicing in problematic black neighbourhoods! Defund the police! Preventing the blacks from killing each other is racist!

You two are talking about two different instances one of which I don't know jack shit about, so I won't comment.

When it comes to the recent shooting of the 16 year old girl in Colombus, Ohio it would seem the cop is in the right from the bodycam footage, but all shootings that lead to death deserve to be investigated.
So Î'll wait for the investigation to finish before I make any real comment, cause I'm not retarded like you. :)

>YOU'RE SERIOUSLY NOT GONNA PROVIDE A SOURCE?!??!?!

(https://i.imgur.com/MHmGjTb.png)



I remember when the far-right claimed to be from rational and logic, they were wrong and retarded. So it's refreshing that you have dropped the act and embraced that you are retarded.

Of course it should be investigated, but retards like you started spewing shit on Twitter etc anyway. Maybe retards like you should reconsider believing to whatever the media decided show to you and use their own head to make an opinion.  :)

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 24, 2021, 05:36:17 pm
You're calling me retarded based on things I haven't done? lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on April 24, 2021, 05:52:40 pm
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 24, 2021, 06:05:14 pm
I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 24, 2021, 07:02:37 pm
https://youtu.be/74gx0v5ZJzw
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 24, 2021, 07:04:33 pm
https://youtu.be/74gx0v5ZJzw
Speaking of fat people.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 24, 2021, 07:34:21 pm
You're calling me retarded based on things I haven't done? lol

You do the same on the daily basis  :-\
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 24, 2021, 07:44:51 pm
Nah I call you a retard when you have really dumb fucking takes, the takes you attributed to me are takes I don't have.

But if you can find somewhere I've said retard to someone based on a take they don't have then I apologize, you happy?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 24, 2021, 08:15:49 pm
I bet none of you fucking "chads" ever attended any kind of fighting gym or fired a gun or did any of the other "manly" things you guys talk about. Its kinda sad honestly. You guys literally discuss with strawman exclusively
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 24, 2021, 08:21:21 pm
I bet none of you fucking "chads" ever attended any kind of fighting gym or fired a gun or did any of the other "manly" things you guys talk about. Its kinda sad honestly. You guys literally discuss with strawman exclusively

ight how much are you betting?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 24, 2021, 08:24:54 pm
I bet none of you fucking "chads" ever attended any kind of fighting gym or fired a gun or did any of the other "manly" things you guys talk about. Its kinda sad honestly. You guys literally discuss with strawman exclusively

ight how much are you betting?
you doing combat sports?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 24, 2021, 08:39:32 pm
I bet none of you fucking "chads" ever attended any kind of fighting gym or fired a gun or did any of the other "manly" things you guys talk about. Its kinda sad honestly. You guys literally discuss with strawman exclusively

ight how much are you betting?
you doing combat sports?

I don't remember anyone talking about combat sports? But I did fire a gun  :P
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on April 24, 2021, 08:43:11 pm
I bet none of you fucking "chads" ever attended any kind of fighting gym or fired a gun or did any of the other "manly" things you guys talk about. Its kinda sad honestly. You guys literally discuss with strawman exclusively

ight how much are you betting?
you doing combat sports?
The Weakest Czech man
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F69%2F63%2F87%2F696387b81f812ef8066a5b5dbc3bad56.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
[close]

The Strongest German man
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fst2.depositphotos.com%2F1791505%2F7456%2Fi%2F450%2Fdepositphotos_74565101-stock-photo-skinny-fighter.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
[close]
quite sad innit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on April 24, 2021, 08:45:32 pm
I bet none of you fucking "chads" ever attended any kind of fighting gym or fired a gun or did any of the other "manly" things you guys talk about. Its kinda sad honestly. You guys literally discuss with strawman exclusively

ight how much are you betting?
you doing combat sports?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41P7w+2sv-L._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 24, 2021, 08:51:12 pm
so how much are you betting
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Steinmann on April 24, 2021, 09:52:27 pm
wrong
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Keita on April 24, 2021, 10:26:55 pm
lol
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on April 24, 2021, 10:28:15 pm
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.

I bet you're a pussy

I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.

I bet you're a pussy

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 24, 2021, 10:29:05 pm
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.

I bet you're a pussy

I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.

I bet you're a pussy


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Stroke0fd34th on April 25, 2021, 12:07:30 am
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.

I bet you're a pussy

I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.

I bet you're a pussy

Hawkince talking shit from the comfort of his turbo-powered wheelchair
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 25, 2021, 12:20:57 am
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.

I bet you're a pussy

I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.

I bet you're a pussy

Hawkince talking shit from the comfort of his turbo-powered wheelchair

Are you just here to shit talk or are you gonna actually try to add to the dumb-fuck arguments that right-wing retards have put forth?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Stroke0fd34th on April 25, 2021, 12:26:03 am
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.

I bet you're a pussy

I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.

I bet you're a pussy

Hawkince talking shit from the comfort of his turbo-powered wheelchair

Are you just here to shit talk or are you gonna actually try to add to the dumb-fuck arguments that right-wing retards have put forth?

I apologize for not adding to this great intellectual debate, I didn't come with any Wikipedia links to post  :-[, next time I'll just write "I bet you're a pussy" and leave the thread.

Also, what if I was here to try to add to the dumb-fuck arguments that left-wing retards have put forth? Smh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on April 25, 2021, 12:27:43 am
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.

I bet you're a pussy

I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.

I bet you're a pussy

Hawkince talking shit from the comfort of his turbo-powered wheelchair

Are you just here to shit talk or are you gonna actually try to add to the dumb-fuck arguments that right-wing retards have put forth?

I apologize for not adding to this great intellectual debate, I didn't come with any Wikipedia links to post  :-[, next time I'll just write "I bet you're a pussy" and leave the thread.

Well there weren't many great points brought up by "Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid." and "Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system." but your pseudo-intelligence is really showing.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~Midnight~ on April 25, 2021, 12:30:38 am
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/566099042984001536.png?v=1)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MikeyBruh on April 25, 2021, 12:31:04 am
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/566099042984001536.png?v=1)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Stroke0fd34th on April 25, 2021, 12:33:45 am
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.

I bet you're a pussy

I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.

I bet you're a pussy

Hawkince talking shit from the comfort of his turbo-powered wheelchair

Are you just here to shit talk or are you gonna actually try to add to the dumb-fuck arguments that right-wing retards have put forth?

I apologize for not adding to this great intellectual debate, I didn't come with any Wikipedia links to post  :-[, next time I'll just write "I bet you're a pussy" and leave the thread.

Well there weren't many great points brought up by "Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid." and "Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system." but your pseudo-intelligence is really showing.

Ohohoho, you got me and my pseudo-intelligence. All I did was the same thing you did, but Goomba only cared about me doing it because he thinks we're not on the same side of this issue but knows you and him are,  hence why he called me out for shit-talking but had nothing to say to you.
And so what if there are no great points brought up? Just like myself, you could've easily just said nothing, but instead, you decided to hurl shit like a monkey.
Muh pseudo-intelligence.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 25, 2021, 12:34:56 am
Lets Return to an actual discussion: Reform of American Police, is there systemic racism and are all humans equal? Truly highly controversial topics for some of us
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 25, 2021, 12:36:56 am
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.

I bet you're a pussy

I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.

I bet you're a pussy

Hawkince talking shit from the comfort of his turbo-powered wheelchair

Are you just here to shit talk or are you gonna actually try to add to the dumb-fuck arguments that right-wing retards have put forth?

I apologize for not adding to this great intellectual debate, I didn't come with any Wikipedia links to post  :-[, next time I'll just write "I bet you're a pussy" and leave the thread.

Well there weren't many great points brought up by "Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid." and "Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system." but your pseudo-intelligence is really showing.

Ohohoho, you got me and my pseudo-intelligence. All I did was the same thing you did, but Goomba only cared about me doing it because he thinks we're not on the same side of this issue but knows you and him are,  hence why he called me out for shit-talking but had nothing to say to you.
And so what if there are no great points brought up? Just like myself, you could've easily just said nothing, but instead, you decided to hurl shit like a monkey.
Muh pseudo-intelligence.

I just want you to stop hiding your power level and actually attempt to engage with the arguments, unlike the EUs and Fancypants. I guess I expected better from an avid paragraph poster such as yourself.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Stroke0fd34th on April 25, 2021, 12:41:56 am
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.

I bet you're a pussy

I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.

I bet you're a pussy

Hawkince talking shit from the comfort of his turbo-powered wheelchair

Are you just here to shit talk or are you gonna actually try to add to the dumb-fuck arguments that right-wing retards have put forth?

I apologize for not adding to this great intellectual debate, I didn't come with any Wikipedia links to post  :-[, next time I'll just write "I bet you're a pussy" and leave the thread.

Well there weren't many great points brought up by "Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid." and "Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system." but your pseudo-intelligence is really showing.

Ohohoho, you got me and my pseudo-intelligence. All I did was the same thing you did, but Goomba only cared about me doing it because he thinks we're not on the same side of this issue but knows you and him are,  hence why he called me out for shit-talking but had nothing to say to you.
And so what if there are no great points brought up? Just like myself, you could've easily just said nothing, but instead, you decided to hurl shit like a monkey.
Muh pseudo-intelligence.

I just want you to stop hiding your power level and actually attempt to engage with the arguments, unlike the EUs and Fancypants. I guess I expected better from an avid paragraph poster such as yourself.

Damn, the old "I expected better" well now I HAVE to get involved.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on April 25, 2021, 12:52:31 am
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.

I bet you're a pussy

I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.

I bet you're a pussy

Hawkince talking shit from the comfort of his turbo-powered wheelchair

Are you just here to shit talk or are you gonna actually try to add to the dumb-fuck arguments that right-wing retards have put forth?

I apologize for not adding to this great intellectual debate, I didn't come with any Wikipedia links to post  :-[, next time I'll just write "I bet you're a pussy" and leave the thread.

Well there weren't many great points brought up by "Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid." and "Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system." but your pseudo-intelligence is really showing.

You and your friend look like you're on an emotional rollercoaster buddy. Must've been something I said? I'd watch out and try to keep my cool, after all you are a respected member of this community. Quite the effeminate trait you are publicly displaying, albeit fully expected.

Imagine seriously discussing politics with people out of touch with reality who sit at home all day. Yikes. Get a grip.

No further arguments needed, fix your own life before trying to fix the world.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 25, 2021, 12:58:36 am
Spoiler
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.

I bet you're a pussy

I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.

I bet you're a pussy

Hawkince talking shit from the comfort of his turbo-powered wheelchair

Are you just here to shit talk or are you gonna actually try to add to the dumb-fuck arguments that right-wing retards have put forth?

I apologize for not adding to this great intellectual debate, I didn't come with any Wikipedia links to post  :-[, next time I'll just write "I bet you're a pussy" and leave the thread.

Well there weren't many great points brought up by "Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid." and "Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system." but your pseudo-intelligence is really showing.
[close]
sometimes if hearts and minds can't be changed, what's the point?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on April 25, 2021, 02:36:27 am
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.

I bet you're a pussy

I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.

I bet you're a pussy

Hawkince talking shit from the comfort of his turbo-powered wheelchair

Are you just here to shit talk or are you gonna actually try to add to the dumb-fuck arguments that right-wing retards have put forth?

I apologize for not adding to this great intellectual debate, I didn't come with any Wikipedia links to post  :-[, next time I'll just write "I bet you're a pussy" and leave the thread.

Well there weren't many great points brought up by "Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid." and "Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system." but your pseudo-intelligence is really showing.

You and your friend look like you're on an emotional rollercoaster buddy. Must've been something I said? I'd watch out and try to keep my cool, after all you are a respected member of this community. Quite the effeminate trait you are publicly displaying, albeit fully expected.

Imagine seriously discussing politics with people out of touch with reality who sit at home all day. Yikes. Get a grip.

No further arguments needed, fix your own life before trying to fix the world.

You posted this 2 days ago

Negro had it coming

and funnily enough used pussy yourself as an insult on the Covid thread earlier

Hot take - If you're scared of the virus, stay at home isolated, vaccinate yourself and let people live their lives instead of forcing masks and vaccines down our throats.

You are responsible for your own health.

Pussies.

If you're going to act stupid and fling shit everywhere don't get all defensive when you get some on yourself
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 25, 2021, 03:45:22 am
Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid.

I bet you're a pussy

I can guarantee you that one of you here studied a useless major like "political science" and thinks they're experts on topics from their lefty point of view. Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system.

I bet you're a pussy

Hawkince talking shit from the comfort of his turbo-powered wheelchair

Are you just here to shit talk or are you gonna actually try to add to the dumb-fuck arguments that right-wing retards have put forth?

I apologize for not adding to this great intellectual debate, I didn't come with any Wikipedia links to post  :-[, next time I'll just write "I bet you're a pussy" and leave the thread.

Well there weren't many great points brought up by "Some of you really need to put on some muscle mass and get laid." and "Should have spent that time at the gym getting jacked. Would have done you more good and sorted out your value system." but your pseudo-intelligence is really showing.

Ohohoho, you got me and my pseudo-intelligence. All I did was the same thing you did, but Goomba only cared about me doing it because he thinks we're not on the same side of this issue but knows you and him are,  hence why he called me out for shit-talking but had nothing to say to you.
And so what if there are no great points brought up? Just like myself, you could've easily just said nothing, but instead, you decided to hurl shit like a monkey.
Muh pseudo-intelligence.

I just want you to stop hiding your power level and actually attempt to engage with the arguments, unlike the EUs and Fancypants. I guess I expected better from an avid paragraph poster such as yourself.

Damn, the old "I expected better" well now I HAVE to get involved.
Sure, you don't have to get involved, but you're the one who came in the thread and clearly saw there were lines already drawn in the sand and still decided shit talk. Why did you post in the first place if you didn't want to get involved?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: PapaBean on April 25, 2021, 05:56:37 am
I have a question what is the general topic here? Cause you all certainly aren’t talking about politics....sounds more like a middle school gym class...
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 25, 2021, 01:40:41 pm
Hey Dumba stop fat shaming Anthony
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DayBoul on April 25, 2021, 10:01:48 pm
is there systemic racism
YES

are all humans equal?
NO
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 25, 2021, 10:51:46 pm
Hey Dumba stop fat shaming Anthony
once you stop hating black people I will change it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 25, 2021, 10:54:39 pm
are all humans equal?
NO
Can you elaborate? Genuinely interested
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 25, 2021, 11:26:49 pm
are all humans equal?
NO
Can you elaborate? Genuinely interested
do you really think around the world ppl are equal lmao
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 25, 2021, 11:31:42 pm
are all humans equal?
NO
Can you elaborate? Genuinely interested
do you really think around the world ppl are equal lmao
In terms of potential? I dont think they differ that much no. In terms of life oppurtunities, certainly not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 25, 2021, 11:33:51 pm
Hey Dumba stop fat shaming Anthony
once you stop hating black people I will change it

but I only hate you
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 25, 2021, 11:38:52 pm
are all humans equal?
NO
Can you elaborate? Genuinely interested
do you really think around the world ppl are equal lmao
In terms of potential? I dont think they differ that much no. In terms of life oppurtunities, certainly not.
poor phrasing then, a lot of incredible people snuffed out by repressive regimes and ideologies around the globe and its actually tragic don't know where to begin
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DayBoul on April 26, 2021, 03:43:08 am
are all humans equal?
NO
Can you elaborate? Genuinely interested
do you really think around the world ppl are equal lmao
In terms of potential? I dont think they differ that much no. In terms of life oppurtunities, certainly not.
none of us are born equal, be it only by genetics. Some people have natural born talent others lack and conversely
in order for all humans to have the same inherent potential, we'd all have to have the exact same physical features, the same intellectual and cognitive ability, same health condition, same everything, even the same upbringing/nurture ; and even if we discard shit like upbringing and assess humans at their "factory settings" lets say, we'd still have to be equal to the nearest cells, then to the nearest molecul, then to the nearest atom - basically clones in its primary sense. So yeah nah yeah, dont think so :D

and even supposing we are all equal in our ability to achieve a given result, we most likely arent in our ability to achieve it in the shortest period of time. Give 4 people with the exact same age, characteristics, background and education a decentely large series of completely NEW problems to solve, all of them are gonna have a different average time of solving cause thats where the inherent intelligence (like half of which is genetically determined) will kick in

in case you give me a "we're all a genius at something different" argument : possibly but even if we could quantify how 2 different person's specific talents may or may not outweigh one another, i doubt the overall result would be dead equalité since it depends on so many stiuational factors
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rikkert on April 26, 2021, 01:21:52 pm
Equal in this context does not mean identical
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DayBoul on April 26, 2021, 02:24:19 pm
context is "inherent potential" so it literally does by extension, cant be someone's equal in terms of potential if you're not completely identical to him


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rikkert on April 26, 2021, 02:57:30 pm
Yes it is obviously true that people aren't perfectly equal in terms of cognitive or physical prowess. As you said, some people are genetically better at many things than other people. And even if people are better at differing skills, it probably wouldn't come down to a perfect balance.

However, I think most people are born equal in terms of their potential to be successful in life. Of course the term "successful in life" is a very ambiguous term, but I'd say everyone in the world has the potential to master a skill and to be successful within a certain field. Aside from the extreme outliers, for example people born with severe physical or mental disabilities, the average human will fall within a spectrum of cognitive and physical abilities that allows them to potentially excel in something in life. It may require substantially more effort and dedication for one person to achieve a mastery of a particular skill than it does for another person, but potentially speaking they can both achieve mastery in the skill. Yes, the person that has a cognitive or physical advantage has the potential to be even better than the other person, but that does not mean the other person is not successful. 
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 26, 2021, 03:00:52 pm
People are not equal. Some are better than others. Want a "sOuRcE". Look at women and how they view most men.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 26, 2021, 03:07:17 pm
People are not equal. Some are better than others. Want a "sOuRcE". Look at women and how they view most men.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
So you are Racist AND an Incel, got it.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
And this is simply wrong. IQ is heavily influenced by your education, + IQ is a very controversial measurement of intelligence
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 26, 2021, 03:16:49 pm
People are not equal. Some are better than others. Want a "sOuRcE". Look at women and how they view most men.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
So you are Racist AND an Incel, got it.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
And this is simply wrong. IQ is heavily influenced by your education, + IQ is a very controversial measurement of intelligence
The standard deviation of intelligence seems to be the same pattern between all socioeconomic groups - education raises the levels, but not the standard deviation. Also IQ is only controversial if you make it so - it’s a perfectly scientific field of study with a lot of predictive power!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on April 26, 2021, 03:19:15 pm
6'4
220lb
Jacked
White with a touch of caramel
Sexy as fuck
High IQ
Millionaire genetics
Risk averse
Emotionally stable
Packing heat

Me > you

Keep your equality.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 26, 2021, 05:47:54 pm
Caz, your stupidity genuinely surprised me
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 26, 2021, 06:51:13 pm
Caz, your stupidity genuinely surprised me
The "conservative" worldview of you and your circle really doesnt surprise me.

People are not equal. Some are better than others. Want a "sOuRcE". Look at women and how they view most men.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
So you are Racist AND an Incel, got it.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
And this is simply wrong. IQ is heavily influenced by your education, + IQ is a very controversial measurement of intelligence
The standard deviation of intelligence seems to be the same pattern between all socioeconomic groups - education raises the levels, but not the standard deviation. Also IQ is only controversial if you make it so - it’s a perfectly scientific field of study with a lot of predictive power!
I personally think IQ is pretty good for what it is: Measuring your Intelligence in certain fields. It doesnt do to well in terms of social intelligence and the likes, but it is pretty alright if you ask me.

For the other part: You are right. I think a lot of people misunderstood me, because I was speaking in very general terms: I am aware there are certain genetic differences between people that simply cant be discussed away. I do generally believe that most people have pretty similar "genetic oppurtunities", and that for example the black population in america isnt generally poor because they are "black" (like SOME PEOPLE dogwhistled on here) but because of poverty induced by racism.

Oh, and the good ol "just pull yourself up by those bootstrps" argument is stupid as fuck
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dokletian on April 26, 2021, 06:51:50 pm
Spoiler
People are not equal. Some are better than others. Want a "sOuRcE". Look at women and how they view most men.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
how would you explain the increase of the average iq in almost every region of the world (https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/Flynn-%E2%80%93-World-Regions-750x477.png), which heavily correlates with the steady increase in the standard of living?
[close]

Also, I do not see the point of this conversation: are all humans identical? No. Are some humans more valuable than others? Of course not. Should all humans have the same rights and be treated equally on the basis of these rights? Yes.

I sincerely hope nobody would disagree with this.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 26, 2021, 07:07:06 pm
Spoiler
People are not equal. Some are better than others. Want a "sOuRcE". Look at women and how they view most men.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
how would you explain the increase of the average iq in almost every region of the world (https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/Flynn-%E2%80%93-World-Regions-750x477.png), which heavily correlates with the steady increase in the standard of living?
[close]

Also, I do not see the point of this conversation: are all humans identical? No. Are some humans more valuable than others? Of course not. Should all humans have the same rights and be treated equally on the basis of these rights? Yes.

I sincerely hope nobody would disagree with this.

The left disagrees ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 26, 2021, 07:07:56 pm
Spoiler
People are not equal. Some are better than others. Want a "sOuRcE". Look at women and how they view most men.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
how would you explain the increase of the average iq in almost every region of the world (https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2015/07/Flynn-%E2%80%93-World-Regions-750x477.png), which heavily correlates with the steady increase in the standard of living?
[close]

Also, I do not see the point of this conversation: are all humans identical? No. Are some humans more valuable than others? Of course not. Should all humans have the same rights and be treated equally on the basis of these rights? Yes.

I sincerely hope nobody would disagree with this.

The left disagrees ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"the left" what do you even mean Kore what are you talking about
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 26, 2021, 07:30:00 pm
Caz, your stupidity genuinely surprised me
The "conservative" worldview of you and your circle really doesnt surprise me.

People are not equal. Some are better than others. Want a "sOuRcE". Look at women and how they view most men.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
So you are Racist AND an Incel, got it.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
And this is simply wrong. IQ is heavily influenced by your education, + IQ is a very controversial measurement of intelligence
The standard deviation of intelligence seems to be the same pattern between all socioeconomic groups - education raises the levels, but not the standard deviation. Also IQ is only controversial if you make it so - it’s a perfectly scientific field of study with a lot of predictive power!
I personally think IQ is pretty good for what it is: Measuring your Intelligence in certain fields. It doesnt do to well in terms of social intelligence and the likes, but it is pretty alright if you ask me.

For the other part: You are right. I think a lot of people misunderstood me, because I was speaking in very general terms: I am aware there are certain genetic differences between people that simply cant be discussed away. I do generally believe that most people have pretty similar "genetic oppurtunities", and that for example the black population in america isnt generally poor because they are "black" (like SOME PEOPLE dogwhistled on here) but because of poverty induced by racism.

Oh, and the good ol "just pull yourself up by those bootstrps" argument is stupid as fuck
There is an argument to be made tho that higher levels of diligence correlate with a high degree of success
Doesn’t mean you should discount external factors but no reason to ignore diligence as an important aspect of performance
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 26, 2021, 08:18:52 pm
High IQ + High Testosterone in men are a great predictor of success.

High IQ = Higher intellectual ability.
High Testosterone = High energy and lower neuroticism.

There's a reason why most men that are depressed are usually low-T sulking losers that are stuck in a deadly cycle of not having enough energy to perform and do things that boost testosterone and thus motivate them to chase success. Success breeds success.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Steinmann on April 26, 2021, 08:24:29 pm
Don’t waste time arguing with someone that is ruled by Merkel
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DayBoul on April 26, 2021, 09:28:03 pm
its getting increasingly low quality freddie, step up your game brother you were doing great at the start

People are not equal. Some are better than others. Want a "sOuRcE". Look at women and how they view most men.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
So you are Racist AND an Incel, got it.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
And this is simply wrong. IQ is heavily influenced by your education, + IQ is a very controversial measurement of intelligence
The standard deviation of intelligence seems to be the same pattern between all socioeconomic groups - education raises the levels, but not the standard deviation. Also IQ is only controversial if you make it so - it’s a perfectly scientific field of study with a lot of predictive power!
literally incorrect? dont know where you got that from but afaik the gap between lowest and highest socioeconomic groups are an average of 6 IQ points at age 2 - aka when the education factor hasn't kicked in yet - and the deviation only gets bigger through time as it reaches 18 IQ points at age 16 - aka post-education factor. If i had to take a wild guess, those starting 6 points would proly be due to genetics and the 18 points due to the higher quality education

taking that into account, id argue that this so-called "predictive power" is based solely on the fact success is pretty much correlated directly to education rather than IQ since the former - if not develops - significantly enhances the latter

i had to pass a couple IQ tests (WAIS) and each time had alot of trouble taking them seriously because of how flawed they were. im baffled that atm this is the BEST we've got to measure someone's intelligence, its almost concerning. I also believe they miss the point and test mental ability (memory for instance) rather than intelligence itself - as in the classic definition of it (the ability to solve a new problem in the shortest period of time), not in that taxonomy sense it's been given that encompasses everything and anythng including mental ability. I dont believe memory should be included in an authentic intelligence test, ppl can both have excellent memory and be completely braindead

im aware there's more to it but yeah IQ's "perfectly scientific field of study" status is overall based on shaky grounds imo

edt: oh and they had also included a segment on knowledge, which is an absolute heresy for an intelligence test ;D pretty unconvincing tests all-round

Spoiler
Yes it is obviously true that people aren't perfectly equal in terms of cognitive or physical prowess. As you said, some people are genetically better at many things than other people. And even if people are better at differing skills, it probably wouldn't come down to a perfect balance.

However, I think most people are born equal in terms of their potential to be successful in life. Of course the term "successful in life" is a very ambiguous term, but I'd say everyone in the world has the potential to master a skill and to be successful within a certain field. Aside from the extreme outliers, for example people born with severe physical or mental disabilities, the average human will fall within a spectrum of cognitive and physical abilities that allows them to potentially excel in something in life. It may require substantially more effort and dedication for one person to achieve a mastery of a particular skill than it does for another person, but potentially speaking they can both achieve mastery in the skill. Yes, the person that has a cognitive or physical advantage has the potential to be even better than the other person, but that does not mean the other person is not successful. 

[close]
WOW WHAT A NICE CONTRIBUTION TO THIS DISCUSSION RIKKERT HOLMES, TY VERY MUCH
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rikkert on April 26, 2021, 09:49:34 pm
Spoiler
Yes it is obviously true that people aren't perfectly equal in terms of cognitive or physical prowess. As you said, some people are genetically better at many things than other people. And even if people are better at differing skills, it probably wouldn't come down to a perfect balance.

However, I think most people are born equal in terms of their potential to be successful in life. Of course the term "successful in life" is a very ambiguous term, but I'd say everyone in the world has the potential to master a skill and to be successful within a certain field. Aside from the extreme outliers, for example people born with severe physical or mental disabilities, the average human will fall within a spectrum of cognitive and physical abilities that allows them to potentially excel in something in life. It may require substantially more effort and dedication for one person to achieve a mastery of a particular skill than it does for another person, but potentially speaking they can both achieve mastery in the skill. Yes, the person that has a cognitive or physical advantage has the potential to be even better than the other person, but that does not mean the other person is not successful. 

[close]
WOW WHAT A NICE CONTRIBUTION TO THIS DISCUSSION RIKKERT HOLMES, TY VERY MUCH
I was just explaining what I thought Cazasar might've meant with what he said about people having equal potential. But sure go be a little bitch about it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 26, 2021, 09:56:02 pm
Yeah but French people can’t read so
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Keita on April 27, 2021, 12:39:51 am
(https://d2u3dcdbebyaiu.cloudfront.net/uploads/atch_img/406/5b4f4f25ed362c8f764d6661f8a2b6d4.jpeg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Steinmann on April 27, 2021, 12:44:21 am
(https://d2u3dcdbebyaiu.cloudfront.net/uploads/atch_img/406/5b4f4f25ed362c8f764d6661f8a2b6d4.jpeg)
Är det du bror?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: John Price on April 27, 2021, 03:24:41 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlDpF7jKGPA
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 27, 2021, 03:49:52 am
6'4
220lb
Jacked
White with a touch of caramel
Sexy as fuck
High IQ
Millionaire genetics
Risk averse
Emotionally stable
Packing heat

Me > you

Keep your equality.

This ain’t it, chief.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: John Price on April 27, 2021, 03:51:16 am
I appreciated that post, actually.

Keep it going @Fredovic
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 27, 2021, 10:16:04 am
If you all really care so much about IQ, the best thing we could do is genocide eastern European countries like Macedonia, Montenegro, and the Czech Republic because somehow Neandertals have managed to survive there and have given birth to knuckle-dragging bastard spawn like Kore, Ledger, and Fredovic. All of whom collectively tank the IQs of their given nations by at least 25 points.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Poberta on April 27, 2021, 10:43:28 am
If you all really care so much about IQ, the best thing we could do is genocide eastern European countries like Macedonia, Montenegro, and the Czech Republic because somehow Neandertals have managed to survive there and have given birth to knuckle-dragging bastard spawn like Kore, Ledger, and Fredovic. All of whom collectively tank the IQs of their given nations by at least 25 points.
:)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on April 27, 2021, 10:58:31 am
4th post magically deleted.
No warning, no mute, no ban - only pure salt.
Ain't stopping this young gun boys.

If you all really care so much about IQ, the best thing we could do is genocide eastern European countries like Macedonia, Montenegro, and the Czech Republic because somehow Neandertals have managed to survive there and have given birth to knuckle-dragging bastard spawn like Kore, Ledger, and Fredovic. All of whom collectively tank the IQs of their given nations by at least 25 points.

Whoa cowboy, that's some racist shit you've just spewed. Revealing your true colors post by post. Bet this one won't get deleted by the soy mods.

Anyway, let me reveal some facts and opinions about you:

5'6
Morbidly obese
"But bro I'm smart, only insecure people go to the gym"
Whines about free healthcare but won't shape himself up
Low IQ
Loser and self-defeatist mentality
Gets emotionally rekt by an fse post from a stranger on the Internet
Depressed
Low testosterone, lacks competitive drive to strive in a capitalist environment
Pushes communist policies over self-improvement
"But drug addicts deserve a good life!"
Lives a privileged life in a 1st world country and still whines
Thinks he's a hero for wearing a mask
Simplifies his world view in group identities
Compensates his inferiority by supporting communist equality policies
Looks like a geek
Not funny


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Steinmann on April 27, 2021, 11:08:59 am
who removed fredos master post
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 27, 2021, 11:19:02 am
When Duuring was reigning you were legit banned for driving posts off topic all the time good times
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: John Price on April 27, 2021, 11:33:31 am
When Duuring was reigning you were legit banned for driving posts off topic all the time good times
Duuring was both a tyrant and a pretty reasonable guy

It did feel as though this was the only thread he cared about though!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 27, 2021, 11:52:42 am

Whoa cowboy, that's some racist shit you've just spewed. Revealing your true colors post by post. Bet this one won't get deleted by the soy mods.

Anyway, let me reveal some facts and opinions about you:

5'6
Morbidly obese
"But bro I'm smart, only insecure people go to the gym"
Whines about free healthcare but won't shape himself up
Low IQ
Loser and self-defeatist mentality
Gets emotionally rekt by an fse post from a stranger on the Internet
Depressed
Low testosterone, lacks competitive drive to strive in a capitalist environment
Pushes communist policies over self-improvement
"But drug addicts deserve a good life!"
Lives a privileged life in a 1st world country and still whines
Thinks he's a hero for wearing a mask
Simplifies his world view in group identities
Compensates his inferiority by supporting communist equality policies
Looks like a geek
Aside from my post clearly being a joke to insult your lack of intelligence even if I was a racist I would at least own that fact instead of hiding behind dog whistles and dog shit arguments like "poor people are just lazy hur dur." Also, it's fascinating to me that you're from Europe but somehow have the worldview of an inbred red-neck from West Virginia I guess this is what 4chan does to the brain. "Soy" "Communism" "Low testosterone" you've literally hit every single boogieman buzzword possible, its so fucking pathetic to watch people like you have the same political opinions I had when I was 15.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 27, 2021, 12:30:58 pm
4th post magically deleted.
No warning, no mute, no ban - only pure salt.
Ain't stopping this young gun boys.

Ikr I also got a bit upset I wanted to shit all over it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 27, 2021, 03:33:21 pm
All you left-wingers are losers that are just looking for excuses. Pathetic soy losers. Get jacked and get after it. Your future self will thank you. So many people are less fortunate than you and you're there crying and sulking.

What to do for the unfortunate blacks, the poor fags, the kikes and the inbreeders? Tell them to get over it and stop being pussies.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on April 27, 2021, 03:39:05 pm
When Duuring was reigning you were legit banned for driving posts off topic all the time good times

And you still keep talking... Why exactly?

Compensating that genocidal german guilt by acting all nice and supporting cookie-cutter communist policy to feel better about yourself.If anyone is racist, it's you buddy. My grandfathers never killed no jews for fun.


Whoa cowboy, that's some racist shit you've just spewed. Revealing your true colors post by post. Bet this one won't get deleted by the soy mods.

Anyway, let me reveal some facts and opinions about you:

5'6
Morbidly obese
"But bro I'm smart, only insecure people go to the gym"
Whines about free healthcare but won't shape himself up
Low IQ
Loser and self-defeatist mentality
Gets emotionally rekt by an fse post from a stranger on the Internet
Depressed
Low testosterone, lacks competitive drive to strive in a capitalist environment
Pushes communist policies over self-improvement
"But drug addicts deserve a good life!"
Lives a privileged life in a 1st world country and still whines
Thinks he's a hero for wearing a mask
Simplifies his world view in group identities
Compensates his inferiority by supporting communist equality policies
Looks like a geek
Aside from my post clearly being a joke to insult your lack of intelligence even if I was a racist I would at least own that fact instead of hiding behind dog whistles and dog shit arguments like "poor people are just lazy hur dur." Also, it's fascinating to me that you're from Europe but somehow have the worldview of an inbred red-neck from West Virginia I guess this is what 4chan does to the brain. "Soy" "Communism" "Low testosterone" you've literally hit every single boogieman buzzword possible, its so fucking pathetic to watch people like you have the same political opinions I had when I was 15.

Added not funny to the list.

Just insulted your entire identity you absolute worm and that's the best you can do?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fralla8 on April 27, 2021, 03:50:19 pm
lmao this is still going on?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: John Price on April 27, 2021, 03:51:05 pm
lmao this is still going on?
Fralla shhhhh

Just enjoy
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 27, 2021, 04:02:51 pm
Caz, your stupidity genuinely surprised me
The "conservative" worldview of you and your circle really doesnt surprise me.

People are not equal. Some are better than others. Want a "sOuRcE". Look at women and how they view most men.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
So you are Racist AND an Incel, got it.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
And this is simply wrong. IQ is heavily influenced by your education, + IQ is a very controversial measurement of intelligence
The standard deviation of intelligence seems to be the same pattern between all socioeconomic groups - education raises the levels, but not the standard deviation. Also IQ is only controversial if you make it so - it’s a perfectly scientific field of study with a lot of predictive power!
I personally think IQ is pretty good for what it is: Measuring your Intelligence in certain fields. It doesnt do to well in terms of social intelligence and the likes, but it is pretty alright if you ask me.

For the other part: You are right. I think a lot of people misunderstood me, because I was speaking in very general terms: I am aware there are certain genetic differences between people that simply cant be discussed away. I do generally believe that most people have pretty similar "genetic oppurtunities", and that for example the black population in america isnt generally poor because they are "black" (like SOME PEOPLE dogwhistled on here) but because of poverty induced by racism.

Oh, and the good ol "just pull yourself up by those bootstrps" argument is stupid as fuck
There is an argument to be made tho that higher levels of diligence correlate with a high degree of success
Doesn’t mean you should discount external factors but no reason to ignore diligence as an important aspect of performance
Fair Enough, but the "pull yourself up with those bootstraps" argument is still dumb
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on April 27, 2021, 04:20:31 pm
Caz, your stupidity genuinely surprised me
The "conservative" worldview of you and your circle really doesnt surprise me.

People are not equal. Some are better than others. Want a "sOuRcE". Look at women and how they view most men.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
So you are Racist AND an Incel, got it.

Edit: And no, some people are dumb and will always be dumb. IQ is 90% genetics. There's your "are we all equal in potential" question answered.
And this is simply wrong. IQ is heavily influenced by your education, + IQ is a very controversial measurement of intelligence
The standard deviation of intelligence seems to be the same pattern between all socioeconomic groups - education raises the levels, but not the standard deviation. Also IQ is only controversial if you make it so - it’s a perfectly scientific field of study with a lot of predictive power!
I personally think IQ is pretty good for what it is: Measuring your Intelligence in certain fields. It doesnt do to well in terms of social intelligence and the likes, but it is pretty alright if you ask me.

For the other part: You are right. I think a lot of people misunderstood me, because I was speaking in very general terms: I am aware there are certain genetic differences between people that simply cant be discussed away. I do generally believe that most people have pretty similar "genetic oppurtunities", and that for example the black population in america isnt generally poor because they are "black" (like SOME PEOPLE dogwhistled on here) but because of poverty induced by racism.

Oh, and the good ol "just pull yourself up by those bootstrps" argument is stupid as fuck
There is an argument to be made tho that higher levels of diligence correlate with a high degree of success
Doesn’t mean you should discount external factors but no reason to ignore diligence as an important aspect of performance
Fair Enough, but the "pull yourself up with those bootstraps" argument is still dumb

Wipes out half the jewish population.
"Yeah we are all equal!"
"I'm a nice guy now, in fact YOU are the racist one"

Bet you feel really guilty bro, I know I would  :D

Can't make this shit up.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DayBoul on April 27, 2021, 04:34:21 pm
all these deaths for a germanic inferiority complex smh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: crazypro25. on April 27, 2021, 04:39:28 pm
Wipes out half the jewish population.
"Yeah we are all equal!"
"I'm a nice guy now, in fact YOU are the racist one"

Bet you feel really guilty bro, I know I would  :D

Can't make this shit up.

Are your last two brain cells having trouble reproducing right now or are you just being that dumb? Either way, I feel sorry for you ::)

But anyway, I'd just be interested to know how you're going to blame Caz for the crimes the Nazis committed. ??? I hope this is not too difficult for you. Arguing has not been your strong point so far.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 27, 2021, 05:01:21 pm
Wipes out half the jewish population.
"Yeah we are all equal!"
"I'm a nice guy now, in fact YOU are the racist one"

Bet you feel really guilty bro, I know I would  :D

Can't make this shit up.

Are your last two brain cells having trouble reproducing right now or are you just being that dumb? Either way, I feel sorry for you ::)

But anyway, I'd just be interested to know how you're going to blame Caz for the crimes the Nazis committed. ??? I hope this is not too difficult for you. Arguing has not been your strong point so far.
He thinks its funny to pretend to be retarded. Just ignore him. Pathetic.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 27, 2021, 07:51:23 pm

Whoa cowboy, that's some racist shit you've just spewed. Revealing your true colors post by post. Bet this one won't get deleted by the soy mods.

Anyway, let me reveal some facts and opinions about you:

5'6
Morbidly obese
"But bro I'm smart, only insecure people go to the gym"
Whines about free healthcare but won't shape himself up
Low IQ
Loser and self-defeatist mentality
Gets emotionally rekt by an fse post from a stranger on the Internet
Depressed
Low testosterone, lacks competitive drive to strive in a capitalist environment
Pushes communist policies over self-improvement
"But drug addicts deserve a good life!"
Lives a privileged life in a 1st world country and still whines
Thinks he's a hero for wearing a mask
Simplifies his world view in group identities
Compensates his inferiority by supporting communist equality policies
Looks like a geek
Aside from my post clearly being a joke to insult your lack of intelligence even if I was a racist I would at least own that fact instead of hiding behind dog whistles and dog shit arguments like "poor people are just lazy hur dur."

Stop with the "if I was a racist" shit. Own it then. The only real and disgustingr racists here are you and your friends (hawkince, caz, furnox).

Literally.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 27, 2021, 08:02:47 pm

Whoa cowboy, that's some racist shit you've just spewed. Revealing your true colors post by post. Bet this one won't get deleted by the soy mods.

Anyway, let me reveal some facts and opinions about you:

5'6
Morbidly obese
"But bro I'm smart, only insecure people go to the gym"
Whines about free healthcare but won't shape himself up
Low IQ
Loser and self-defeatist mentality
Gets emotionally rekt by an fse post from a stranger on the Internet
Depressed
Low testosterone, lacks competitive drive to strive in a capitalist environment
Pushes communist policies over self-improvement
"But drug addicts deserve a good life!"
Lives a privileged life in a 1st world country and still whines
Thinks he's a hero for wearing a mask
Simplifies his world view in group identities
Compensates his inferiority by supporting communist equality policies
Looks like a geek
Aside from my post clearly being a joke to insult your lack of intelligence even if I was a racist I would at least own that fact instead of hiding behind dog whistles and dog shit arguments like "poor people are just lazy hur dur."

Stop with the "if I was a racist" shit. Own it then. The only real and disgustingr racists here are you and your friends (hawkince, caz, furnox).

Literally.
Please elaborate!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on April 27, 2021, 08:03:36 pm

Whoa cowboy, that's some racist shit you've just spewed. Revealing your true colors post by post. Bet this one won't get deleted by the soy mods.

Anyway, let me reveal some facts and opinions about you:

5'6
Morbidly obese
"But bro I'm smart, only insecure people go to the gym"
Whines about free healthcare but won't shape himself up
Low IQ
Loser and self-defeatist mentality
Gets emotionally rekt by an fse post from a stranger on the Internet
Depressed
Low testosterone, lacks competitive drive to strive in a capitalist environment
Pushes communist policies over self-improvement
"But drug addicts deserve a good life!"
Lives a privileged life in a 1st world country and still whines
Thinks he's a hero for wearing a mask
Simplifies his world view in group identities
Compensates his inferiority by supporting communist equality policies
Looks like a geek
Aside from my post clearly being a joke to insult your lack of intelligence even if I was a racist I would at least own that fact instead of hiding behind dog whistles and dog shit arguments like "poor people are just lazy hur dur."

Stop with the "if I was a racist" shit. Own it then. The only real and disgustingr racists here are you and your friends (hawkince, caz, furnox).

Literally.
Please elaborate!
you german and against my opinion. you communist hurr!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on April 27, 2021, 08:50:13 pm
*snip*
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 27, 2021, 09:16:41 pm
Spoiler
Spoiler

Whoa cowboy, that's some racist shit you've just spewed. Revealing your true colors post by post. Bet this one won't get deleted by the soy mods.

Anyway, let me reveal some facts and opinions about you:

5'6
Morbidly obese
"But bro I'm smart, only insecure people go to the gym"
Whines about free healthcare but won't shape himself up
Low IQ
Loser and self-defeatist mentality
Gets emotionally rekt by an fse post from a stranger on the Internet
Depressed
Low testosterone, lacks competitive drive to strive in a capitalist environment
Pushes communist policies over self-improvement
"But drug addicts deserve a good life!"
Lives a privileged life in a 1st world country and still whines
Thinks he's a hero for wearing a mask
Simplifies his world view in group identities
Compensates his inferiority by supporting communist equality policies
Looks like a geek
Aside from my post clearly being a joke to insult your lack of intelligence even if I was a racist I would at least own that fact instead of hiding behind dog whistles and dog shit arguments like "poor people are just lazy hur dur."

Stop with the "if I was a racist" shit. Own it then. The only real and disgustingr racists here are you and your friends (hawkince, caz, furnox).

Literally.
Please elaborate!
[close]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

Got you covered Kore.

Please explain to me further how you feel so we can get over this immense guilt that you carry so deeply in your soul.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Sigmund_Freud%2C_by_Max_Halberstadt_%28cropped%29.jpg)

Spoiler
Yes I did pick a jew as my therapist on purpose in case you were daft enough to realize.
Spoiler
You were
[close]
[close]
[close]

So far you've been arguing both for and against white guilt. But winning a "debate" with hypocrisy is fair game as long as it fits the narrative right?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on April 27, 2021, 10:50:42 pm
*snip*

What identity are you referring to? The one that you cobbled together that reads like a parody of a 4chan post? It's ironic that one of the insults that you tried to label me with was "simplifies his worldview in group identities" but it's literally exactly what you do. Was this entire post just you projecting your insecurities onto me? If so that would explain a lot.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on April 27, 2021, 11:27:47 pm
When Duuring was reigning you were legit banned for driving posts off topic all the time good times
yea but Duuring would just ban you if you had a different opinion
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 27, 2021, 11:45:55 pm

Whoa cowboy, that's some racist shit you've just spewed. Revealing your true colors post by post. Bet this one won't get deleted by the soy mods.

Anyway, let me reveal some facts and opinions about you:

5'6
Morbidly obese
"But bro I'm smart, only insecure people go to the gym"
Whines about free healthcare but won't shape himself up
Low IQ
Loser and self-defeatist mentality
Gets emotionally rekt by an fse post from a stranger on the Internet
Depressed
Low testosterone, lacks competitive drive to strive in a capitalist environment
Pushes communist policies over self-improvement
"But drug addicts deserve a good life!"
Lives a privileged life in a 1st world country and still whines
Thinks he's a hero for wearing a mask
Simplifies his world view in group identities
Compensates his inferiority by supporting communist equality policies
Looks like a geek
Aside from my post clearly being a joke to insult your lack of intelligence even if I was a racist I would at least own that fact instead of hiding behind dog whistles and dog shit arguments like "poor people are just lazy hur dur."

Stop with the "if I was a racist" shit. Own it then. The only real and disgustingr racists here are you and your friends (hawkince, caz, furnox).

Literally.
Please elaborate!
you german and against my opinion. you communist hurr!

hypocrisy 101
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on April 28, 2021, 08:23:36 am

Whoa cowboy, that's some racist shit you've just spewed. Revealing your true colors post by post. Bet this one won't get deleted by the soy mods.

Anyway, let me reveal some facts and opinions about you:

5'6
Morbidly obese
"But bro I'm smart, only insecure people go to the gym"
Whines about free healthcare but won't shape himself up
Low IQ
Loser and self-defeatist mentality
Gets emotionally rekt by an fse post from a stranger on the Internet
Depressed
Low testosterone, lacks competitive drive to strive in a capitalist environment
Pushes communist policies over self-improvement
"But drug addicts deserve a good life!"
Lives a privileged life in a 1st world country and still whines
Thinks he's a hero for wearing a mask
Simplifies his world view in group identities
Compensates his inferiority by supporting communist equality policies
Looks like a geek
Aside from my post clearly being a joke to insult your lack of intelligence even if I was a racist I would at least own that fact instead of hiding behind dog whistles and dog shit arguments like "poor people are just lazy hur dur."

Stop with the "if I was a racist" shit. Own it then. The only real and disgustingr racists here are you and your friends (hawkince, caz, furnox).

Literally.

I appreciate fancypants sometimes because he just says he is a racist straight up. At least he owns it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 28, 2021, 02:36:45 pm

Whoa cowboy, that's some racist shit you've just spewed. Revealing your true colors post by post. Bet this one won't get deleted by the soy mods.

Anyway, let me reveal some facts and opinions about you:

5'6
Morbidly obese
"But bro I'm smart, only insecure people go to the gym"
Whines about free healthcare but won't shape himself up
Low IQ
Loser and self-defeatist mentality
Gets emotionally rekt by an fse post from a stranger on the Internet
Depressed
Low testosterone, lacks competitive drive to strive in a capitalist environment
Pushes communist policies over self-improvement
"But drug addicts deserve a good life!"
Lives a privileged life in a 1st world country and still whines
Thinks he's a hero for wearing a mask
Simplifies his world view in group identities
Compensates his inferiority by supporting communist equality policies
Looks like a geek
Aside from my post clearly being a joke to insult your lack of intelligence even if I was a racist I would at least own that fact instead of hiding behind dog whistles and dog shit arguments like "poor people are just lazy hur dur."

Stop with the "if I was a racist" shit. Own it then. The only real and disgustingr racists here are you and your friends (hawkince, caz, furnox).

Literally.

Since you bunch me togheter with people I hardly know.
All you left-wingers are losers that are just looking for excuses. Pathetic soy losers. Get jacked and get after it. Your future self will thank you. So many people are less fortunate than you and you're there crying and sulking.

What to do for the unfortunate blacks, the poor fags, the kikes and the inbreeders? Tell them to get over it and stop being pussies.
Negro had it coming
Negro had it coming

Should have given him 5 warning shots to the chest tbh

Also fancy literally posted nazi salutes but they were removed due to breaking forum rules.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 28, 2021, 05:21:39 pm
:DDD
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 28, 2021, 09:58:03 pm
Xdddd le epic troll moment
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phoen!x on April 29, 2021, 12:18:52 am
6'4
220lb
Jacked
White with a touch of caramel
Sexy as fuck
High IQ
Millionaire genetics
Risk averse
Emotionally stable
Packing heat

Me > you

Keep your equality.

wait.... so you're not even a millionaire or atleast from a rich family ?  xDD  you will actually have to work to live your mid tier life ??? lmao xddddddd where i come from we'd spit in your face



lmao not even a millionaire...... get outta here
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 29, 2021, 04:21:16 am
Xdddd le epic troll moment

don't get me wrong, everything i said i stand for as well as genuinely thinking you guys are racist

simply based of an assumption
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 29, 2021, 04:30:21 am
Xdddd le epic troll moment

don't get me wrong, everything i said i stand for as well as genuinely thinking you guys are racist

simply based of an assumption

Ah yes I’m racist based on an ”assumption” while people who use racial slurs or he had it coming cause he’s black arguments ain’t?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: John Price on April 29, 2021, 12:48:07 pm
Words can't hurt you if you have noise cancelling headphones in hello?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on April 30, 2021, 02:45:52 pm
Xdddd le epic troll moment

don't get me wrong, everything i said i stand for as well as genuinely thinking you guys are racist

simply based of an assumption

Ah yes I’m racist based on an ”assumption” while people who use racial slurs or he had it coming cause he’s black arguments ain’t?

I don't give a shit about slurs or other jokes, what matters are your values, which indicate that you and others are racist.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 30, 2021, 04:09:42 pm
Xdddd le epic troll moment

don't get me wrong, everything i said i stand for as well as genuinely thinking you guys are racist

simply based of an assumption

Ah yes I’m racist based on an ”assumption” while people who use racial slurs or he had it coming cause he’s black arguments ain’t?

I don't give a shit about slurs or other jokes, what matters are your values, which indicate that you and others are racist.
can you pls for once in this thread actually explain anything of what you just said
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 30, 2021, 05:37:27 pm
tbh using racial slurs doesn't make someone a racist
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~Midnight~ on April 30, 2021, 05:45:54 pm
tbh using racial slurs doesn't make someone a racist

I have so many questions, but at this point, I'm afraid to ask.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on April 30, 2021, 05:47:19 pm
tbh using racial slurs doesn't make someone a racist

I have so many questions, but at this point, I'm afraid to ask.
Just walk away slowly
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: John Price on April 30, 2021, 05:47:57 pm
tbh using racial slurs doesn't make someone a racist
phew I'm in the clear
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on April 30, 2021, 05:59:52 pm
some very hot takes today
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 30, 2021, 06:01:56 pm
tbh using racial slurs doesn't make someone a racist
BREAKING NEWS

White Person says N Word isnt that bad!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 30, 2021, 06:06:57 pm
tbh using racial slurs doesn't make someone a racist
BREAKING NEWS

White Person says N Word isnt that bad!
incredible reading comprehension there, somebody a few posts up said it's racist to use a racial slur whereas I naively thought stating racist viewpoints makes someone a racist
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~Midnight~ on April 30, 2021, 06:10:13 pm
tbh using racial slurs doesn't make someone a racist
BREAKING NEWS

White Person says N Word isnt that bad!
incredible reading comprehension there, somebody a few posts up said it's racist to use a racial slur whereas I naively thought stating racist viewpoints makes someone a racist

(https://i.imgur.com/eEnGsB0.gif)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 30, 2021, 06:15:07 pm
Wtf midnight why kill the long-running discussion we were having >:(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~Midnight~ on April 30, 2021, 06:16:53 pm
Wtf midnight why kill the long-running discussion we were having >:(

It was my calling. I had to derail it all for the greater good :'(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 30, 2021, 06:17:50 pm
Wtf midnight why kill the long-running discussion we were having >:(

It was my calling. I had to derail it all for the greater good :'(
i certainly don't remember phoning you
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 30, 2021, 06:21:22 pm
8. Do not drive a thread Off-Topic
"Off-Topic" posts in a thread are constituted as posts that are  irrelevant to the thread's intended purpose or discussion. If users consistently attempt to derail the thread’s subject, then moderators will take action against the user(s).  It is the thread owner’s responsibility to make moderation aware when user(s) attempt to derail the thread.

If only this Forum had somekind of moderator.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 30, 2021, 06:23:52 pm
8. Do not drive a thread Off-Topic
"Off-Topic" posts in a thread are constituted as posts that are  irrelevant to the thread's intended purpose or discussion. If users consistently attempt to derail the thread’s subject, then moderators will take action against the user(s).  It is the thread owner’s responsibility to make moderation aware when user(s) attempt to derail the thread.

If only this Forum had somekind of moderator.
as I recall the derailing started with you, furrnox and goomba calling on-topic political stances racist
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 30, 2021, 06:26:02 pm
8. Do not drive a thread Off-Topic
"Off-Topic" posts in a thread are constituted as posts that are  irrelevant to the thread's intended purpose or discussion. If users consistently attempt to derail the thread’s subject, then moderators will take action against the user(s).  It is the thread owner’s responsibility to make moderation aware when user(s) attempt to derail the thread.

If only this Forum had somekind of moderator.
as I recall the derailing started with you, furrnox and goomba calling on-topic political stances racist
No, the derailing started right after that actually
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 30, 2021, 06:27:29 pm
8. Do not drive a thread Off-Topic
"Off-Topic" posts in a thread are constituted as posts that are  irrelevant to the thread's intended purpose or discussion. If users consistently attempt to derail the thread’s subject, then moderators will take action against the user(s).  It is the thread owner’s responsibility to make moderation aware when user(s) attempt to derail the thread.

If only this Forum had somekind of moderator.
as I recall the derailing started with you, furrnox and goomba calling on-topic political stances racist
No, the derailing started right after that actually
yes there were some real hot and relevant political debates until then for sure
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on April 30, 2021, 06:28:43 pm
Let's be honest here, everyone's a little bit racist.

If you disagree, have a walk alone in downtown Detroit at 2am. London works too. You'd be PETRIFIED.

But let me know how that works out for ya.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 30, 2021, 06:30:45 pm
*snip*
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 30, 2021, 06:47:27 pm
*snip*
Let's be honest here, everyone's a little bit racist.

If you disagree, have a walk alone in downtown Detroit at 2am. London works too. You'd be PETRIFIED.

But let me know how that works out for ya.
I really cant wrap my head around how we could EVER say you guys were racist
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on April 30, 2021, 06:58:30 pm
*snip*
Let's be honest here, everyone's a little bit racist.

If you disagree, have a walk alone in downtown Detroit at 2am. London works too. You'd be PETRIFIED.

But let me know how that works out for ya.
I really cant wrap my head around how we could EVER say you guys were racist

Make no mistake, I ain't afraid.

After all, my hint of caramel gives me the perfect camouflage to disguise as any race you think of. I'm unfuckwithable in any given situation.

Need to hit up London? Good.
I'll have a tan, brown up and I'm basically safe.

You could only wish for my genetics.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 30, 2021, 07:00:54 pm
*snip*
btw this take simply proves you atleast have no idea about german crime statistics.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 30, 2021, 07:06:42 pm
I don't need statistics when I have the capabilities to assess any man and act accordingly. You'll virtue signal and die. I'll fight, out-manoeuvre and thrive. You and I are not the same.


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on April 30, 2021, 07:27:45 pm
I don't need statistics when I have the capabilities to assess any man and act accordingly. You'll virtue signal and die. I'll fight, out-manoeuvre and thrive. You and I are not the same.
that made me chuckle kudos ledgi
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 30, 2021, 07:46:07 pm
8. Do not drive a thread Off-Topic
"Off-Topic" posts in a thread are constituted as posts that are  irrelevant to the thread's intended purpose or discussion. If users consistently attempt to derail the thread’s subject, then moderators will take action against the user(s).  It is the thread owner’s responsibility to make moderation aware when user(s) attempt to derail the thread.

If only this Forum had somekind of moderator.
as I recall the derailing started with you, furrnox and goomba calling on-topic political stances racist

???
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 30, 2021, 07:56:21 pm
8. Do not drive a thread Off-Topic
"Off-Topic" posts in a thread are constituted as posts that are  irrelevant to the thread's intended purpose or discussion. If users consistently attempt to derail the thread%u2019s subject, then moderators will take action against the user(s).  It is the thread owner%u2019s responsibility to make moderation aware when user(s) attempt to derail the thread.

If only this Forum had somekind of moderator.
as I recall the derailing started with you, furrnox and goomba calling on-topic political stances racist

???
as I recall the derailing started with you, furrnox and goomba calling on-topic political stances racist
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 30, 2021, 07:59:15 pm
As far as I'm aware I haven't called any on-topic issue racist.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 30, 2021, 08:07:34 pm
Ok furrnox is absolved of said crime, he only derailed the thread by posting and quoting memes which is boring and not much to talk about :(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 30, 2021, 08:11:06 pm
Wrong again I haven't posted any memes, however I did respond to like two really cringy ones.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 30, 2021, 08:13:23 pm
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/6kGliTj.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on April 30, 2021, 08:14:40 pm
Damn I guess I posted ONE through a quote you got me.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on April 30, 2021, 08:17:23 pm
that's derailing 101, we are all derailers
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on April 30, 2021, 08:50:28 pm
Snip
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: crazypro25. on April 30, 2021, 09:31:38 pm
ok cool
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on May 01, 2021, 12:10:27 am
as I recall the derailing started with you, furrnox and goomba calling on-topic political stances racist
I didn't just "call them racist" I offered my stance and information that was relevant to the conversation. Were there a few jabs in there calling them racist? Absolutely, but since we were talking about race issues I don't really see how that is "derailing."

Also, Ledger, unprompted, just used a slur for Jewish people so are we really gonna sit here and act like he isn't a blatant racist when pretty much everything here has displayed evidence to support that argument?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Jammo on May 01, 2021, 12:39:40 am
as I recall the derailing started with you, furrnox and goomba calling on-topic political stances racist
I didn't just "call them racist" I offered my stance and information that was relevant to the conversation. Were there a few jabs in there calling them racist? Absolutely, but since we were talking about race issues I don't really see how that is "derailing."

Also, Ledger, unprompted, just used a slur for Jewish people so are we really gonna sit here and act like he isn't a blatant racist when pretty much everything here has displayed evidence to support that argument?

Ledger just has a level of intelligence that you beta basement dwelling *snip* couldn't even dream to comprehend.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 01, 2021, 02:28:45 am
Can't wait for goomba and co to come and call senator Tim Scott a racist for speaking the truth. Oh wait, he's black, that doesn't fit your narrative, does it?

America is not racist.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 01, 2021, 02:32:23 am
Xdddd le epic troll moment

don't get me wrong, everything i said i stand for as well as genuinely thinking you guys are racist

simply based of an assumption

Ah yes I’m racist based on an ”assumption” while people who use racial slurs or he had it coming cause he’s black arguments ain’t?

I don't give a shit about slurs or other jokes, what matters are your values, which indicate that you and others are racist.
can you pls for once in this thread actually explain anything of what you just said

I'm just using the logic you have been using to claim that I hate blacks and to call me a racist. Glad you're not getting it. A little bit of self reflection from y'alls part would be great.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on May 01, 2021, 09:05:44 am
Can't wait for goomba and co to come and call senator Tim Scott a racist for speaking the truth. Oh wait, he's black, that doesn't fit your narrative, does it?

America is not racist.
Yeah man, you caught me, I am totally pushing a narrative and virtue signaling on the FSE forums. Please continue to tell me how race relations are in my country while you sit in your 90% white country that is smaller than my state.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on May 01, 2021, 11:28:40 am
Can't wait for goomba and co to come and call senator Tim Scott a racist for speaking the truth. Oh wait, he's black, that doesn't fit your narrative, does it?

America is not racist.
Yeah man, you caught me, I am totally pushing a narrative and virtue signaling on the FSE forums. Please continue to tell me how race relations are in my country while you sit in your 90% white country that is smaller than my state.
Just imagine 10% non white in czech republic.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 01, 2021, 01:35:58 pm
Can't wait for goomba and co to come and call senator Tim Scott a racist for speaking the truth. Oh wait, he's black, that doesn't fit your narrative, does it?

America is not racist.
Yeah man, you caught me, I am totally pushing a narrative and virtue signaling on the FSE forums. Please continue to tell me how race relations are in my country while you sit in your 90% white country that is smaller than my state.

Have you paid your reparations yet?

Can't wait for goomba and co to come and call senator Tim Scott a racist for speaking the truth. Oh wait, he's black, that doesn't fit your narrative, does it?

America is not racist.
Yeah man, you caught me, I am totally pushing a narrative and virtue signaling on the FSE forums. Please continue to tell me how race relations are in my country while you sit in your 90% white country that is smaller than my state.
Just imagine 10% non white in czech republic.

?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 01, 2021, 06:08:28 pm
Xdddd le epic troll moment

don't get me wrong, everything i said i stand for as well as genuinely thinking you guys are racist

simply based of an assumption

Ah yes I’m racist based on an ”assumption” while people who use racial slurs or he had it coming cause he’s black arguments ain’t?

I don't give a shit about slurs or other jokes, what matters are your values, which indicate that you and others are racist.
can you pls for once in this thread actually explain anything of what you just said

I'm just using the logic you have been using to claim that I hate blacks and to call me a racist. Glad you're not getting it. A little bit of self reflection from y'alls part would be great.

I already know what you would say to claim that I'm racist but you don't want to say it because it's so easily disproven by facts.
You'd say that I'm racist because I claim that minorities in general are at a disadvantage in opportunity in "westernized" countries,
and then you'd point at poor white people. Which isn't a fair comparison to make since blacks (at least in the US) still carry a lot of historical baggage and there definantly is some racial bias in more or less all of us.
For example white employers are more likely to hire white people over blacks, and black employers are more likely to hire black people over whites.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on May 01, 2021, 07:03:53 pm
Ok, institutional racism and inequality is a real and big problem in the US. Please give us 5 bulletpoints on how would YOU solve these issues. You can be creative.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phoen!x on May 01, 2021, 10:46:54 pm
I don't need statistics when I have the capabilities to assess any man and act accordingly. You'll virtue signal and die. I'll fight, out-manoeuvre and thrive. You and I are not the same.

my man thinks he's batman lmao
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~Midnight~ on May 01, 2021, 10:54:20 pm
I don't need statistics when I have the capabilities to assess any man and act accordingly. You'll virtue signal and die. I'll fight, out-manoeuvre and thrive. You and I are not the same.

my man thinks he's batman lmao

No silly..Batman doesn't kill people. Even though he totally does.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on May 03, 2021, 02:51:40 am
https://youtu.be/Z_tDAIF56XE
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 03, 2021, 02:56:21 am
Ok, institutional racism and inequality is a real and big problem in the US. Please give us 5 bulletpoints on how would YOU solve these issues. You can be creative.

sorry I'm bad at visualising nonexisting problems  :-[
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Herishey on May 06, 2021, 10:52:11 am
Been quite a few pyramids here recently, as they look like genuine posts I won't warn for now, please remember to use a spoiler after 5 posts.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 11, 2021, 03:27:41 pm
Ok, institutional racism and inequality is a real and big problem in the US. Please give us 5 bulletpoints on how would YOU solve these issues. You can be creative.
I've put this off for a while cause I haven't had the time to put down the effort to respond. First of all I'm not an academic in any sense but from the arguments I've heard here are 4 "bulletpoints" in no particular order, that would make sense to me. (I know you asked for 5)

1. Get people more involved in the political process, currently it would seem to me from what I've read that the voting population in local elections is mostly old white people that don't represent the ideals of the broder population and since local government is in charge of for example appointing police chiefs, which makes them very important elections to take part in, furthermore if more people took part in the process it would give more legitimacy in my opinion to the protest should local politicians continue to select shitty police chiefs even after the broder electorate would participate.

2. Put more pressure through incentives for companies to hire more multiculturaly. I know this is definantly not popular with white people who argue for individualism and the market place will always select fairly based on whoever is most suited for the job based on experience and education etc. Unfortunaley this does not seem to be the case currently, mostly due to inherit bias. I also believe that if corporations would be more diverse they could probably be better at targeting more minorities in marketing etc making it benificial for the economy for companies to hire more diversly.

3. Putting through legislation that hinders banks from treating people differntly based on race. Currently banks are less likely to give out fair loans to black people then whites.

4. Minor point decriminalizing cannabis use on a federal level and continue to pressure states to legalize it. Currently incarceration due to cannabis use has been affecting minorities more then whites and there's no reason to keep people in prison due to cannabis use. I'd personally go even further and argue for the decriminalization for all drug use, but I don't think that would be achievable currently. I personally believe it's an addiction that would be more efficently solved through rehablitation then incarceration and it only inflicts the person addicted. Now if you commit crimes that does affect others to fuel your addiction like break ins etc then you should obviously be punished for those but not the addiction in of itself.

Here's a 5th and 6th that I'm kind of on the fence about the HR 40 bill, and the idea of censoring names on school applications.
Since there has been some studies showing black people being less likely to be selected purely based on their names.
I haven't read much into this one though so I'm unaware of any unwanted side effects this might cause.

(Sorry for poor grammar English isn't my first language but I think I still got my points across, tell me if you need me to clarify something.)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on May 11, 2021, 10:54:30 pm
1.Racist

2.Racist

3.Banks don't give a shit.

4.Only losers get addicted

5. Blacks don't get accepted cos they score lower. #Cope
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on May 12, 2021, 05:10:45 am
Can't wait for goomba and co to come and call senator Tim Scott a racist for speaking the truth. Oh wait, he's black, that doesn't fit your narrative, does it?

America is not racist.
Yeah man, you caught me, I am totally pushing a narrative and virtue signaling on the FSE forums. Please continue to tell me how race relations are in my country while you sit in your 90% white country that is smaller than my state.
Just imagine 10% non white in czech republic.
10% too much
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on May 12, 2021, 05:24:21 am
Can't wait for goomba and co to come and call senator Tim Scott a racist for speaking the truth. Oh wait, he's black, that doesn't fit your narrative, does it?

America is not racist.
Yeah man, you caught me, I am totally pushing a narrative and virtue signaling on the FSE forums. Please continue to tell me how race relations are in my country while you sit in your 90% white country that is smaller than my state.
when the swede cuck says something vs when the chad Czech man says something
(https://i.imgur.com/00JNkYD.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 12, 2021, 05:34:57 am
1.Racist

2.Racist

3.Banks don't give a shit.

4.Only losers get addicted

5. Blacks don't get accepted cos they score lower. #Cope

Your posts so far have been completely pointless and have only made you look stupid.
How about you use your two remaining braincells and give me a real argument to respond to.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on May 12, 2021, 07:20:12 am
1.Racist

2.Racist

3.Banks don't give a shit.

4.Only losers get addicted

5. Blacks don't get accepted cos they score lower. #Cope

Your posts so far have been completely pointless and have only made you look stupid.
How about you use your two remaining braincells and give me a real argument to respond to.
they don't have arguments they just wanna circlejerk their 4chan talking points
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on May 12, 2021, 03:43:33 pm
Debating is gay. Real men do trial by combat to see who’s opinion is right
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 12, 2021, 03:52:22 pm
Debating is gay. Real men do trial by combat to see who’s opinion is right

Any animal can use violence to resolve their conflicts, only humans can use their words to do the same.

However even animals understand that violence is generally stupid if it can be avoided. Being wounded as a herbivore makes you an easier target for predators and getting wounded as a predator means you can't hunt as efficantly. Also you know animals lack medication and are generally on a very basic level on treating wounds.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 12, 2021, 06:24:40 pm
Debating is gay. Real men do trial by combat to see who’s opinion is right

Any animal can use violence to resolve their conflicts, only humans can use their words to do the same.

So Maxine Waters is an animal after all
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 13, 2021, 12:23:53 am
I'm not a fan of riots but you can argue that they were rioting against a system they find/found to be tyrannical which in my book could be justifiable reason to commit acts of violence in some circumstances.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Ledger on May 13, 2021, 12:53:13 am
I'm not a fan of riots but you can argue that they were rioting against a system they find/found to be tyrannical which in my book could be justifiable reason to commit acts of violence in some circumstances.

I find your mind fucked up, I'm going to beat you up. Dumbass logic to burn down businesses.

You're a professional victim, that's it.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 13, 2021, 01:14:38 am
I'm not a fan of riots but you can argue that they were rioting against a system they find/found to be tyrannical which in my book could be justifiable reason to commit acts of violence in some circumstances.
political violence in free countries bad
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on May 13, 2021, 01:34:10 am
The level of Low IQ, Low Wisdom, Low height, Low number of dick length, Low experience, Low spatial and temporal reasoning skills, Low lay counts, Low eye sockets in this thread is absolutely fucking ASTOUNDING. The depths of hell cannot even contain the sheer retardation wrought upon this poor collection of electrical signals. Jesus Christ, you lot should be slaughtered by the thousands and offered no acknowledgment till the end of time. May Allah smite shaytan and all his incarnations amin.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 13, 2021, 04:34:55 am
I'm not a fan of riots but you can argue that they were rioting against a system they find/found to be tyrannical which in my book could be justifiable reason to commit acts of violence in some circumstances.

I find your mind fucked up, I'm going to beat you up. Dumbass logic to burn down businesses.

You're a professional victim, that's it.

I literally said I'm not a fan of rioting "dumbass" all I said is that there can be justification for violence if you live in a tyrranical society. What people believe to be a tyrranical society is subjective nazis and commies believe we live in a tyrranical society right now for example. I think they're entierly wrong and I don't support their violent acts. However the Hong Kong demonstrations had violence tied to it but is still something I supported cause I support political freedom and think their cause was just. Also the fighting as far as I'm aware was between authorities and demonstrators. No local bussniesses were targeted.
Just to be clear so your brain will get it right I do not support rioting.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Godsworn Alexiel on May 13, 2021, 07:24:27 am
Wow I guess the Macedonian education system really is as bad as it’s ranking says it is

https://english.republika.mk/news/macedonia/macedonian-students-ranked-among-the-worst-in-europe/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on May 13, 2021, 07:33:28 am
tbh using racial slurs doesn't make someone a racist
phew I'm in the clear

ACTUALLY LMFAO HAHAHAHA
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on May 13, 2021, 12:01:16 pm
Wow I guess the Macedonian education system really is as bad as it’s ranking says it is

https://english.republika.mk/news/macedonia/macedonian-students-ranked-among-the-worst-in-europe/
not only that, makedonia as a whole is dogshit
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 13, 2021, 03:14:41 pm
I'm not a fan of riots but you can argue that they were rioting against a system they find/found to be tyrannical which in my book could be justifiable reason to commit acts of violence in some circumstances.

I find your mind fucked up, I'm going to beat you up. Dumbass logic to burn down businesses.

You're a professional victim, that's it.

I literally said I'm not a fan of rioting "dumbass" all I said is that there can be justification for violence if you live in a tyrranical society. What people believe to be a tyrranical society is subjective nazis and commies believe we live in a tyrranical society right now for example. I think they're entierly wrong and I don't support their violent acts. However the Hong Kong demonstrations had violence tied to it but is still something I supported cause I support political freedom and think their cause was just. Also the fighting as far as I'm aware was between authorities and demonstrators. No local bussniesses were targeted.
Just to be clear so your brain will get it right I do not support rioting.

"I'm not a fan of riots BUT"
Title: Re: The General Political Thr
Post by: Furrnox on May 13, 2021, 05:04:29 pm
I don’t understand how you don’t get what I’m saying. If I was entierly against the idea of political violence then I wouldn’t even be able to support the idea of a peoples overthrowal of dictatorships.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 13, 2021, 05:33:48 pm
political violence in free countries bad
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 14, 2021, 02:08:39 pm
political violence in free countries bad

Generally speaking sure but in some demonstrations/protests it's inevitable. Be it demonstrators becoming overzealous instigating fights and police crackdowns ensue or be it police being ordered to disperse crowds. Violence will continue to happen and the people on either side should have the right to self defense should they feel like their life is being threatened. If you're a protester I would strongly discourage starting fights, you're outgunned and it generally hurts your cause.

Also I do agree just to state this again demonstrators attacking local businesses is just indefensible.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sadman on May 14, 2021, 07:31:02 pm
i wish i lived in usa so i could just buy a gun and shoot myself
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 15, 2021, 04:35:39 pm
i wish i lived in usa so i could just buy a gun and shoot myself

I wish certain Americans did this too  :D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on May 16, 2021, 04:41:45 am
i wish i lived in usa so i could just buy a gun and shoot myself

I wish certain Americans did this too  :D
I'm right here. You don't have to vague post.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on May 17, 2021, 10:45:45 pm
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/fc54db7334a7d0b5df5e801c3f289894.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Lone on May 18, 2021, 12:00:45 pm
i wish i lived in usa so i could just buy a gun and shoot myself
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: 19boboy97 on May 18, 2021, 01:33:30 pm
i wish i lived in usa so i could just buy a gun and shoot myself

Why buy a gun?

Let the police shoot you :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: 19boboy97 on May 18, 2021, 01:54:05 pm
Wow I guess the Macedonian education system really is as bad as it’s ranking says it is

https://english.republika.mk/news/macedonia/macedonian-students-ranked-among-the-worst-in-europe/

Well you can't be that smart either if you still don't know how to link a image properly in the Forum :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on May 19, 2021, 03:47:13 pm
i wish i lived in usa so i could just buy a gun and shoot myself

Why buy a gun?

Let the police shoot you :)
If you do suicide by cop you are a HUGE dickhead
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: 19boboy97 on May 20, 2021, 08:47:02 am
i wish i lived in usa so i could just buy a gun and shoot myself

Why buy a gun?

Let the police shoot you :)
If you do suicide by cop you are a HUGE dickhead

Was refering to the trigger-happy police force in the us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWAybDJS7ng
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on May 20, 2021, 02:36:59 pm
Ah yes, America Bad, very nice
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on May 20, 2021, 02:48:10 pm
Ah yes, America Bad, very nice
American Police Bad is a good take theodin
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on May 20, 2021, 03:53:02 pm
i wish i lived in usa so i could just buy a gun and shoot myself

Why buy a gun?

Let the police shoot you :)
If you do suicide by cop you are a HUGE dickhead

Was refering to the trigger-happy police force in the us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWAybDJS7ng

Trigger-happy? Nobody shot a gun in this video. Low IQ take and so is this woman, let me deconstruct why.

1. Huffpost conveniently cuts the video where the first thing the police officer gets portrayed in a negative light with "you're gonna get fucking shot". They also conveniently mute the video with their shitty explanation when shit's starting to hit the fan. Classic media-manipulation.

2. They are clearly suspects for theft, no police officer goes around random people pointing a gun at them. They  didn't want to comply so the officer pulls out a gun so they don't run away and potentially harm someone in the chase.

3. "I can't put my hands up, I'm holding a baby and I'm pregnant!!", proceeding to act emotional and aggressive instead of putting the baby in the car complying with authority. Can't put her hands up because she's pregnant?She is guilty so she doesn't want to leave her kids behind alone.

4. Video conveniently cuts again to the officer trying to impose authority and do his job. But he's violent and mean to the poor little helpless woman with kids right? She isn't at all screaming because they are using force to arrest the MAN right? Maybe because he could be carrying a firearm?They were clearly beating up the woman causing her to yell!

5. Video conveniently cuts again right before she's yelling because she and her husband/boyfriend didn't comply to the law. The officers let the woman walk freely because she has children.

6. They pick a black cop woman to do damage control because the video looks bad. And they put the cops that just did their job on desk duty lmao, pathetic.

7. They sue for 10MIL so they can get rich quick taking the money from law-abiding american citizens. Typical loser thieves.

This is why there's so much crime in the US. Officers are becoming spineless due to left-wing political pressure. Failed society.


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: 19boboy97 on May 20, 2021, 05:45:05 pm
Spoiler
i wish i lived in usa so i could just buy a gun and shoot myself

Why buy a gun?

Let the police shoot you :)
If you do suicide by cop you are a HUGE dickhead

Was refering to the trigger-happy police force in the us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWAybDJS7ng

Trigger-happy? Nobody shot a gun in this video. Low IQ take and so is this woman, let me deconstruct why.

1. Huffpost conveniently cuts the video where the first thing the police officer gets portrayed in a negative light with "you're gonna get fucking shot". They also conveniently mute the video with their shitty explanation when shit's starting to hit the fan. Classic media-manipulation.

2. They are clearly suspects for theft, no police officer goes around random people pointing a gun at them. They  didn't want to comply so the officer pulls out a gun so they don't run away and potentially harm someone in the chase.

3. "I can't put my hands up, I'm holding a baby and I'm pregnant!!", proceeding to act emotional and aggressive instead of putting the baby in the car complying with authority. Can't put her hands up because she's pregnant?She is guilty so she doesn't want to leave her kids behind alone.

4. Video conveniently cuts again to the officer trying to impose authority and do his job. But he's violent and mean to the poor little helpless woman with kids right? She isn't at all screaming because they are using force to arrest the MAN right? Maybe because he could be carrying a firearm?They were clearly beating up the woman causing her to yell!

5. Video conveniently cuts again right before she's yelling because she and her husband/boyfriend didn't comply to the law. The officers let the woman walk freely because she has children.

6. They pick a black cop woman to do damage control because the video looks bad. And they put the cops that just did their job on desk duty lmao, pathetic.

7. They sue for 10MIL so they can get rich quick taking the money from law-abiding american citizens. Typical loser thieves.

This is why there's so much crime in the US. Officers are becoming spineless due to left-wing political pressure. Failed society.
[close]

You're funny :)

So beeing triger-happy is when someone is shooting.

Explain to me this then.

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on May 21, 2021, 03:35:04 am
*snip*
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sadman on May 22, 2021, 08:25:24 pm
i wish i lived in usa so i could just buy a gun and shoot myself

Why buy a gun?

Let the police shoot you :)

it wouldnt work because i am not black
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 23, 2021, 02:29:56 am
i wish i lived in usa so i could just buy a gun and shoot myself

Why buy a gun?

Let the police shoot you :)

it wouldnt work because i am not black

actually it would  ;D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fredovic on May 23, 2021, 03:02:09 am
Spoiler
i wish i lived in usa so i could just buy a gun and shoot myself

Why buy a gun?

Let the police shoot you :)
If you do suicide by cop you are a HUGE dickhead

Was refering to the trigger-happy police force in the us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWAybDJS7ng

Trigger-happy? Nobody shot a gun in this video. Low IQ take and so is this woman, let me deconstruct why.

1. Huffpost conveniently cuts the video where the first thing the police officer gets portrayed in a negative light with "you're gonna get fucking shot". They also conveniently mute the video with their shitty explanation when shit's starting to hit the fan. Classic media-manipulation.

2. They are clearly suspects for theft, no police officer goes around random people pointing a gun at them. They  didn't want to comply so the officer pulls out a gun so they don't run away and potentially harm someone in the chase.

3. "I can't put my hands up, I'm holding a baby and I'm pregnant!!", proceeding to act emotional and aggressive instead of putting the baby in the car complying with authority. Can't put her hands up because she's pregnant?She is guilty so she doesn't want to leave her kids behind alone.

4. Video conveniently cuts again to the officer trying to impose authority and do his job. But he's violent and mean to the poor little helpless woman with kids right? She isn't at all screaming because they are using force to arrest the MAN right? Maybe because he could be carrying a firearm?They were clearly beating up the woman causing her to yell!

5. Video conveniently cuts again right before she's yelling because she and her husband/boyfriend didn't comply to the law. The officers let the woman walk freely because she has children.

6. They pick a black cop woman to do damage control because the video looks bad. And they put the cops that just did their job on desk duty lmao, pathetic.

7. They sue for 10MIL so they can get rich quick taking the money from law-abiding american citizens. Typical loser thieves.

This is why there's so much crime in the US. Officers are becoming spineless due to left-wing political pressure. Failed society.
[close]

You're funny :)

So beeing triger-happy is when someone is shooting.

Explain to me this then.

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/

I'm sure cops go around killing innocent blacks and it has nothing to do with high crime rates they commit. In what world do you live in lmao. Oh yeah, the world where you believe anything the mainstream media feeds you. Clown.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: 19boboy97 on May 26, 2021, 12:57:58 pm
Spoiler
Spoiler
i wish i lived in usa so i could just buy a gun and shoot myself

Why buy a gun?

Let the police shoot you :)
If you do suicide by cop you are a HUGE dickhead

Was refering to the trigger-happy police force in the us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWAybDJS7ng

Trigger-happy? Nobody shot a gun in this video. Low IQ take and so is this woman, let me deconstruct why.

1. Huffpost conveniently cuts the video where the first thing the police officer gets portrayed in a negative light with "you're gonna get fucking shot". They also conveniently mute the video with their shitty explanation when shit's starting to hit the fan. Classic media-manipulation.

2. They are clearly suspects for theft, no police officer goes around random people pointing a gun at them. They  didn't want to comply so the officer pulls out a gun so they don't run away and potentially harm someone in the chase.

3. "I can't put my hands up, I'm holding a baby and I'm pregnant!!", proceeding to act emotional and aggressive instead of putting the baby in the car complying with authority. Can't put her hands up because she's pregnant?She is guilty so she doesn't want to leave her kids behind alone.

4. Video conveniently cuts again to the officer trying to impose authority and do his job. But he's violent and mean to the poor little helpless woman with kids right? She isn't at all screaming because they are using force to arrest the MAN right? Maybe because he could be carrying a firearm?They were clearly beating up the woman causing her to yell!

5. Video conveniently cuts again right before she's yelling because she and her husband/boyfriend didn't comply to the law. The officers let the woman walk freely because she has children.

6. They pick a black cop woman to do damage control because the video looks bad. And they put the cops that just did their job on desk duty lmao, pathetic.

7. They sue for 10MIL so they can get rich quick taking the money from law-abiding american citizens. Typical loser thieves.

This is why there's so much crime in the US. Officers are becoming spineless due to left-wing political pressure. Failed society.
[close]

You're funny :)

So beeing triger-happy is when someone is shooting.

Explain to me this then.

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/06/05/policekillings/

I'm sure cops go around killing innocent blacks and it has nothing to do with high crime rates they commit. In what world do you live in lmao. Oh yeah, the world where you believe anything the mainstream media feeds you. Clown.
[close]

6'4
220lb
Jacked
White with a touch of caramel
Sexy as fuck
High IQ
Millionaire genetics
Risk averse
Emotionally stable
Packing heat

Me > you

Keep your equality.

Whatever Fredovic I see I have no chance against a superhuman like you

Spoiler
Clown
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on June 04, 2021, 04:59:19 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/34980c72d4af305974a0da1d769419bc.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: [2ndHess] lukasoh on June 04, 2021, 05:47:17 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/34980c72d4af305974a0da1d769419bc.png)
People doing DNA tests and get political about it smh. Just accept that your grand grand grand grand grand father moved somewhere else and fucked a girl, this does not change anything
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on June 04, 2021, 06:38:40 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/34980c72d4af305974a0da1d769419bc.png)
there is a great paper about this, but I sadly dont have a link atm
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DayBoul on June 06, 2021, 03:06:51 am
if i were in his place id be pretty thankful to have greek ancestry over turkish ancestry, no offense turks
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on June 10, 2021, 02:16:00 pm
if i were in his place id be pretty thankful to have greek ancestry over turkish ancestry, no offense turks

Doubt, if you grew up in Turkey with Turkish culture I doubt you'd prefer having Greek ancestry.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on June 17, 2021, 03:56:59 pm
if i were in his place id be pretty thankful to have greek ancestry over turkish ancestry, no offense turks

Doubt, if you grew up in Turkey with Turkish culture I doubt you'd prefer having Greek ancestry.
Doubt, if you grew up in Turkey with Turkish culture I doubt you wouldnt feel like a fucking dirty cockroach 24/7
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: junedragon on June 28, 2021, 06:51:11 am
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/hate-speech-bill-c36-1.6077606

Canada is fucked lmao I need out.

C-10 gave the government the power to regulate internet content including social media end users under the old Broadcasting Act (intended for old radio and TV broadcasts). now bill c-36 will give them the power to define what they consider to be hate speech on a whim and punish it with fines of up to $20,000 for first offense and $50,000 for subsequent offenses; using information pulled from ISP's, social media companies, etc. to faciliate.

people kept repeating that the Liberals aren't stupid enough to try to censor the internet even after they removed the provision exempting end users from Bill c-10, but now it's clear that that's exactly what they're doing - and of course they are citing the incident in London as proof that this is required even though the perpetrator had little to no online presence as far as police have determined
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on June 28, 2021, 04:08:36 pm
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/hate-speech-bill-c36-1.6077606

Canada is fucked lmao I need out.

C-10 gave the government the power to regulate internet content including social media end users under the old Broadcasting Act (intended for old radio and TV broadcasts). now bill c-36 will give them the power to define what they consider to be hate speech on a whim and punish it with fines of up to $20,000 for first offense and $50,000 for subsequent offenses; using information pulled from ISP's, social media companies, etc. to faciliate.

people kept repeating that the Liberals aren't stupid enough to try to censor the internet even after they removed the provision exempting end users from Bill c-10, but now it's clear that that's exactly what they're doing - and of course they are citing the incident in London as proof that this is required even though the perpetrator had little to no online presence as far as police have determined
We place our hopes in the senate
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on June 28, 2021, 04:24:39 pm
I'm really sorry guys :(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on June 30, 2021, 02:17:46 am
Spoiler
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/hate-speech-bill-c36-1.6077606

Canada is fucked lmao I need out.

C-10 gave the government the power to regulate internet content including social media end users under the old Broadcasting Act (intended for old radio and TV broadcasts). now bill c-36 will give them the power to define what they consider to be hate speech on a whim and punish it with fines of up to $20,000 for first offense and $50,000 for subsequent offenses; using information pulled from ISP's, social media companies, etc. to faciliate.

people kept repeating that the Liberals aren't stupid enough to try to censor the internet even after they removed the provision exempting end users from Bill c-10, but now it's clear that that's exactly what they're doing - and of course they are citing the incident in London as proof that this is required even though the perpetrator had little to no online presence as far as police have determined
We place our hopes in the senate
[close]
Ngl as much as I like to shit on the dumpsterfire of US politics I'm starting to fear we're slipping behind in the healthy democracy game as well. Beyond bill C-10, parliamentary democracy has been in decline over the last two decades. It started with Harper but Trudeau has really solidified executive power into the PMO: unless he starts literally stabbing MP's neither his party nor cabinet are gonna check him. Not likely CPC leadership will reverse this trend.

tl;dr Canadian Party Leader's winning 38%+ of the popular vote have and will continue to have 100% executive and legislative powers... we're fucked.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Poberta on July 13, 2021, 06:58:50 pm
https://www.firstpost.com/world/i-can-see-the-greatness-jackie-chan-wants-to-join-chinas-communist-party-9800131.html?fbclid=IwAR1mWPa4QGSjVL6Xo4p2p5JqrmtQFnv859GL0bD0Ff2L4U1_r-haOsQWHGc rip Hong Kong                                                                                 https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gwanwg/jackie_chan_at_the_benefit_concert_held_in_may/     
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: fruitocino on July 15, 2021, 11:13:08 pm
https://www.firstpost.com/world/i-can-see-the-greatness-jackie-chan-wants-to-join-chinas-communist-party-9800131.html?fbclid=IwAR1mWPa4QGSjVL6Xo4p2p5JqrmtQFnv859GL0bD0Ff2L4U1_r-haOsQWHGc rip Hong Kong                                                                                 https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gwanwg/jackie_chan_at_the_benefit_concert_held_in_may/     
I dont think thats a surprise really, is it? Jackie is only as big as he is because he doesn't speak out against the party, it only makes sense that he endorses/joins it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on July 20, 2021, 12:36:13 am
https://twitter.com/JizzJohnsonJr/status/1409986871753588737
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Coldstreamer on July 20, 2021, 06:22:18 am
(https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/a71/6ae/bf3ac2d372ca6798b756be42ecd2ef079f-29-donald-trump-merchandise.rsquare.w700.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Poberta on July 21, 2021, 09:24:24 am
Im happy of John Bercow  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTX1OCXj_tg&t=330s
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on July 21, 2021, 11:48:24 pm
Im happy of John Bercow  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTX1OCXj_tg&t=330s
not a surprise, he was always a closet leftie
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: cowlikenuts on July 22, 2021, 05:46:19 am
Trump is not my president
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Poberta on July 25, 2021, 02:35:56 pm
this is funny  former leader  green party in czech republic   is candidate behind Czech social democratic party  and is his behaviour is on level troll in current time  https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2556633789  and is gay   his father is boss in Czech embassy in  Israel  this is reproduction  elitism spy of czechoslovakia  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Koecher
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on August 16, 2021, 02:31:27 pm
Afghanistan is a shitshow
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on August 16, 2021, 02:37:01 pm
Afghanistan is a shitshow
It was always going to end this way. Coulda stayed another 20 years for the same thing. Should've never went in there in the first place.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on August 16, 2021, 06:39:39 pm
Afghanistan is a shitshow
It was always going to end this way. Coulda stayed another 20 years for the same thing. Should've never went in there in the first place.

Once we killed Osama we should've bailed. These Afghanis would rather have Sharia law anyways. They don't want democracy. They'll have tribal wars for the next 25 years until the next superpower wants to try and tame them. We gave them everything necessary to fight these dudes and they just didn't care lol.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on August 17, 2021, 04:22:47 am
Afghanistan is a shitshow
It was always going to end this way. Coulda stayed another 20 years for the same thing. Should've never went in there in the first place.

Once we killed Osama we should've bailed. These Afghanis would rather have Sharia law anyways. They don't want democracy. They'll have tribal wars for the next 25 years until the next superpower wants to try and tame them. We gave them everything necessary to fight these dudes and they just didn't care lol.
Sharia law kinda based
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: JollyCanadian on August 17, 2021, 04:46:50 am
Afghanistan is a shitshow
It was always going to end this way. Coulda stayed another 20 years for the same thing. Should've never went in there in the first place.

Once we killed Osama we should've bailed. These Afghanis would rather have Sharia law anyways. They don't want democracy. They'll have tribal wars for the next 25 years until the next superpower wants to try and tame them. We gave them everything necessary to fight these dudes and they just didn't care lol.
Most of the population does not want sharia. As I understand it there are some organizations within the country focusing on getting women out of the country due to the increased risk. Never the less Bush #2 caused this and now everyone is blaming trump or biden :D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 17, 2021, 05:14:06 am
The fact that we didn’t just send in C-130s last week and just pull our allies and interpreters out and then sorted out the legal process later is a testimony to the absolute decay of Western government
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Saxon on August 17, 2021, 11:07:10 am
up the islamic emirate  8)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on August 17, 2021, 03:30:22 pm
Afghanistan is a shitshow
It was always going to end this way. Coulda stayed another 20 years for the same thing. Should've never went in there in the first place.

Once we killed Osama we should've bailed. These Afghanis would rather have Sharia law anyways. They don't want democracy. They'll have tribal wars for the next 25 years until the next superpower wants to try and tame them. We gave them everything necessary to fight these dudes and they just didn't care lol.
Most of the population does not want sharia. As I understand it there are some organizations within the country focusing on getting women out of the country due to the increased risk. Never the less Bush #2 caused this and now everyone is blaming trump or biden :D

I saw a report that 99% of Muslims in Afghanistan would support Sharia law.

Here’s a tweet with a picture of the data
https://twitter.com/swati_gs/status/1427265492868235273?s=21

These people like living that way. Most of the country is tribes run by warlords essentially. Backwards civilization.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: LEVIS on August 17, 2021, 04:56:48 pm
Afghanistan is a shitshow
It was always going to end this way. Coulda stayed another 20 years for the same thing. Should've never went in there in the first place.

Once we killed Osama we should've bailed. These Afghanis would rather have Sharia law anyways. They don't want democracy. They'll have tribal wars for the next 25 years until the next superpower wants to try and tame them. We gave them everything necessary to fight these dudes and they just didn't care lol.
Most of the population does not want sharia. As I understand it there are some organizations within the country focusing on getting women out of the country due to the increased risk. Never the less Bush #2 caused this and now everyone is blaming trump or biden :D

I saw a report that 99% of Muslims in Afghanistan would support Sharia law.

Here’s a tweet with a picture of the data
https://twitter.com/swati_gs/status/1427265492868235273?s=21

These people like living that way. Most of the country is tribes run by warlords essentially. Backwards civilization.
The whole region has always been a shit show for centuries anyway  :-\
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on August 17, 2021, 10:27:41 pm
The fact that we didn’t just send in C-130s last week and just pull our allies and interpreters out and then sorted out the legal process later is a testimony to the absolute decay of Western government

yeah the  terps are cool, they can come but anyone in charge of the ANA is a pedo and is gonna be executed by the Taliban :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 17, 2021, 11:21:57 pm
The fact that we didn’t just send in C-130s last week and just pull our allies and interpreters out and then sorted out the legal process later is a testimony to the absolute decay of Western government

yeah the  terps are cool, they can come but anyone in charge of the ANA is a pedo and is gonna be executed by the Taliban :)
Not the worst thing ever, the ANA has always been a corrupt shell organization essentially laundering US aid
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Steinmann on August 17, 2021, 11:56:42 pm
How do we fix the middle east? may god help my afghan brothers
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on August 18, 2021, 02:05:30 pm
How do we fix the middle east? may god help my afghan brothers

nuke it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on August 18, 2021, 04:33:16 pm
(https://i.gyazo.com/f39ac2c642c214b2370ff25a996c8653.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on August 18, 2021, 07:28:04 pm
How do we fix the middle east? may god help my afghan brothers

nuke it

Yeah just hit it with a reset button.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Grimmy on August 18, 2021, 08:05:16 pm
idk guys, royalism is pretty cool 8)

this sure adds a lot to the conversation.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Saxon on August 24, 2021, 04:45:33 pm
how to fix middle east part 1 of x

>revoke Sykes-Picot
>Expel them


>pan arab state



>win
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Grimmy on August 24, 2021, 06:21:58 pm
how to fix the middle east part 2 of x

>remove religion
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on August 24, 2021, 08:38:39 pm
how to fix the middle east part 2 of x

>remove religion
you will make great fuel for the eternal flames heathen
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 25, 2021, 01:36:59 am
how to fix the middle east part 2 of x

>remove religion
you will make great fuel for the eternal flames heathen
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on August 25, 2021, 04:58:27 pm
How do we fix the middle east? may god help my afghan brothers

nuke it

Yeah just hit it with a reset button.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Stroke0fd34th on August 26, 2021, 01:21:38 am
Afghanistan is a shitshow
It was always going to end this way. Coulda stayed another 20 years for the same thing. Should've never went in there in the first place.

Once we killed Osama we should've bailed. These Afghanis would rather have Sharia law anyways. They don't want democracy. They'll have tribal wars for the next 25 years until the next superpower wants to try and tame them. We gave them everything necessary to fight these dudes and they just didn't care lol.
Most of the population does not want sharia. As I understand it there are some organizations within the country focusing on getting women out of the country due to the increased risk. Never the less Bush #2 caused this and now everyone is blaming trump or biden :D

I saw a report that 99% of Muslims in Afghanistan would support Sharia law.

Here’s a tweet with a picture of the data
https://twitter.com/swati_gs/status/1427265492868235273?s=21

These people like living that way. Most of the country is tribes run by warlords essentially. Backwards civilization.

I don't think mobs of people would be trying to escape the country, and basically killing themselves clinging onto planes if they "liked" living that way, and I don't think a nearly decade-old poll of 1,000 people is enough to support that stance.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on August 26, 2021, 01:50:26 am
Afghanistan is a shitshow
It was always going to end this way. Coulda stayed another 20 years for the same thing. Should've never went in there in the first place.

Once we killed Osama we should've bailed. These Afghanis would rather have Sharia law anyways. They don't want democracy. They'll have tribal wars for the next 25 years until the next superpower wants to try and tame them. We gave them everything necessary to fight these dudes and they just didn't care lol.
Most of the population does not want sharia. As I understand it there are some organizations within the country focusing on getting women out of the country due to the increased risk. Never the less Bush #2 caused this and now everyone is blaming trump or biden :D

I saw a report that 99% of Muslims in Afghanistan would support Sharia law.

Here’s a tweet with a picture of the data
https://twitter.com/swati_gs/status/1427265492868235273?s=21

These people like living that way. Most of the country is tribes run by warlords essentially. Backwards civilization.

I don't think mobs of people would be trying to escape the country, and basically killing themselves clinging onto planes if they "liked" living that way, and I don't think a nearly decade-old poll of 1,000 people is enough to support that stance.

Obviously the people in the “modernized” city of Kabul are gonna want to flee. They are some of the few people living in what we’d call generally normal conditions with basic human rights. The rest of the country lives in a way we can’t really comprehend because it’s so backwards. If a majority of people there supported the way of life we expect, surely they would have put up some form of resistance after we left them with all the necessary means of doing so. I just hope all the people that want to leave are able to get home.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 26, 2021, 02:11:44 am
Canadian election szn!

LPC started out with a decent chance of a majority but a week into the campaign they've not run a good one so far, while the CPC has rolled out some popular policy proposals

Latest projections have the Liberals winning another minority but with less seats - due in large part to a more competitive CPC than last time and a more stable NDP

Popular vote has tightened in the past few days with the CPC and LPC running at basically a dead heat

Bloc facing some serious questions in whether they can repeat last election's success in Quebec

Green party imploding and the PPC not a serious threat

Gonna be an interesting one! You can check out the polls and projections at 338canada.com
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: LEVIS on August 26, 2021, 02:32:36 am
Canadian election szn!

LPC started out with a decent chance of a majority but a week into the campaign they've not run a good one so far, while the CPC has rolled out some popular policy proposals

Latest projections have the Liberals winning another minority but with less seats - due in large part to a more competitive CPC than last time and a more stable NDP

Popular vote has tightened in the past few days with the CPC and LPC running at basically a dead heat

Bloc facing some serious questions in whether they can repeat last election's success in Quebec

Green party imploding and the PPC not a serious threat

Gonna be an interesting one! You can check out the polls and projections at 338canada.com
voting bloc  8) f*** trudeau
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on August 26, 2021, 03:11:08 am
Spoiler
Canadian election szn!

LPC started out with a decent chance of a majority but a week into the campaign they've not run a good one so far, while the CPC has rolled out some popular policy proposals

Latest projections have the Liberals winning another minority but with less seats - due in large part to a more competitive CPC than last time and a more stable NDP

Popular vote has tightened in the past few days with the CPC and LPC running at basically a dead heat

Bloc facing some serious questions in whether they can repeat last election's success in Quebec

Green party imploding and the PPC not a serious threat

Gonna be an interesting one! You can check out the polls and projections at 338canada.com
[close]
I'd be weary of tracking polls using just 338, they absolutely botched the NS election, PC-NS had a 13% chance of a minority and wound up with a firm majority. They also had NL Libs winning a sweeping majority back in March, when in reality they gained a single seat (although the election being fucked up by the third wave of COVID may have factored in).

Tories have been doing a good job at marketing O'Toole for name recognition and he isn't as controversial as Scheer, if they can turn that into more BC, ATL, and GTA seats they may have a shot a a minority gov't. Had my man MacKay been leader I'd say that win would be a guarantee.

Only Liberal shot at a majority imo is if they can win Quebec and maybe a few urban seats out west.

The death of the Greens since May stepped down might return enough seats back to the NDP to keep Jagmeet around.

My overall prediction is a Lib min, Trudeau pulls a Mulroney and hands a shitfest to Freeland come next election. All other parties vapourize their leadership (Except for Bernier, who is gunned down by the dairy cartel).
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 26, 2021, 03:37:17 am
Spoiler
Canadian election szn!

LPC started out with a decent chance of a majority but a week into the campaign they've not run a good one so far, while the CPC has rolled out some popular policy proposals

Latest projections have the Liberals winning another minority but with less seats - due in large part to a more competitive CPC than last time and a more stable NDP

Popular vote has tightened in the past few days with the CPC and LPC running at basically a dead heat

Bloc facing some serious questions in whether they can repeat last election's success in Quebec

Green party imploding and the PPC not a serious threat

Gonna be an interesting one! You can check out the polls and projections at 338canada.com
voting bloc  8) f*** trudeau
[close]
Good man!

Spoiler
Spoiler
Canadian election szn!

LPC started out with a decent chance of a majority but a week into the campaign they've not run a good one so far, while the CPC has rolled out some popular policy proposals

Latest projections have the Liberals winning another minority but with less seats - due in large part to a more competitive CPC than last time and a more stable NDP

Popular vote has tightened in the past few days with the CPC and LPC running at basically a dead heat

Bloc facing some serious questions in whether they can repeat last election's success in Quebec

Green party imploding and the PPC not a serious threat

Gonna be an interesting one! You can check out the polls and projections at 338canada.com
[close]
I'd be weary of tracking polls using just 338, they absolutely botched the NS election, PC-NS had a 13% chance of a minority and wound up with a firm majority. They also had NL Libs winning a sweeping majority back in March, when in reality they gained a single seat (although the election being fucked up by the third wave of COVID may have factored in).

Tories have been doing a good job at marketing O'Toole for name recognition and he isn't as controversial as Scheer, if they can turn that into more BC, ATL, and GTA seats they may have a shot a a minority gov't. Had my man MacKay been leader I'd say that win would be a guarantee.

Only Liberal shot at a majority imo is if they can win Quebec and maybe a few urban seats out west.

The death of the Greens since May stepped down might return enough seats back to the NDP to keep Jagmeet around.

My overall prediction is a Lib min, Trudeau pulls a Mulroney and hands a shitfest to Freeland come next election. All other parties vapourize their leadership (Except for Bernier, who is gunned down by the dairy cartel).

[close]
Provincial elections are a shitshow to poll anyways. 338 got the last election almost perfectly and the polls he sources from are usually reliable so idk!

Speaking as someone who voted in the CPC leadership race, O'Toole was everyone's second or third choice - and I think that applies to Canadians in general as well. But he (and the party) are doing a fine job at both marketting him and running a sound campaign. CPC's always had ground game but policy and war rooming was always questionable, but this time they're leaving the ground game to the locals and focussing exclusively on marketting and war rooming and it's working. O'Toole has barely left Ottawa, which means he's fresh as hell, sees the trends before Trudeau, and isn't getting hammered on the road by op media. It's a strategy that will work best in courting suburban Ontario seats, I think.

Green collapse is funny. National media basically begged for them to be relevant for a decade, and after Lizzie couldn't get anything more than 2-3 seats, they're basically as effective as the PPC. Paul isn't even going to win her riding, by a lot!

If the CPC cut into the Liberal seat count in Ontario by like 5-10 and flip a couple seats in BC/ATL then O'Toole gets another shot tbh. Unless he does something stupid he's proven to be a better leader than Scheer, which will help his cause
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on August 26, 2021, 09:33:55 pm
Spoiler
Spoiler
Canadian election szn!

LPC started out with a decent chance of a majority but a week into the campaign they've not run a good one so far, while the CPC has rolled out some popular policy proposals

Latest projections have the Liberals winning another minority but with less seats - due in large part to a more competitive CPC than last time and a more stable NDP

Popular vote has tightened in the past few days with the CPC and LPC running at basically a dead heat

Bloc facing some serious questions in whether they can repeat last election's success in Quebec

Green party imploding and the PPC not a serious threat

Gonna be an interesting one! You can check out the polls and projections at 338canada.com
voting bloc  8) f*** trudeau
[close]
Good man!

Spoiler
Spoiler
Canadian election szn!

LPC started out with a decent chance of a majority but a week into the campaign they've not run a good one so far, while the CPC has rolled out some popular policy proposals

Latest projections have the Liberals winning another minority but with less seats - due in large part to a more competitive CPC than last time and a more stable NDP

Popular vote has tightened in the past few days with the CPC and LPC running at basically a dead heat

Bloc facing some serious questions in whether they can repeat last election's success in Quebec

Green party imploding and the PPC not a serious threat

Gonna be an interesting one! You can check out the polls and projections at 338canada.com
[close]
I'd be weary of tracking polls using just 338, they absolutely botched the NS election, PC-NS had a 13% chance of a minority and wound up with a firm majority. They also had NL Libs winning a sweeping majority back in March, when in reality they gained a single seat (although the election being fucked up by the third wave of COVID may have factored in).

Tories have been doing a good job at marketing O'Toole for name recognition and he isn't as controversial as Scheer, if they can turn that into more BC, ATL, and GTA seats they may have a shot a a minority gov't. Had my man MacKay been leader I'd say that win would be a guarantee.

Only Liberal shot at a majority imo is if they can win Quebec and maybe a few urban seats out west.

The death of the Greens since May stepped down might return enough seats back to the NDP to keep Jagmeet around.

My overall prediction is a Lib min, Trudeau pulls a Mulroney and hands a shitfest to Freeland come next election. All other parties vapourize their leadership (Except for Bernier, who is gunned down by the dairy cartel).

[close]
Provincial elections are a shitshow to poll anyways. 338 got the last election almost perfectly and the polls he sources from are usually reliable so idk!

Speaking as someone who voted in the CPC leadership race, O'Toole was everyone's second or third choice - and I think that applies to Canadians in general as well. But he (and the party) are doing a fine job at both marketting him and running a sound campaign. CPC's always had ground game but policy and war rooming was always questionable, but this time they're leaving the ground game to the locals and focussing exclusively on marketting and war rooming and it's working. O'Toole has barely left Ottawa, which means he's fresh as hell, sees the trends before Trudeau, and isn't getting hammered on the road by op media. It's a strategy that will work best in courting suburban Ontario seats, I think.

Green collapse is funny. National media basically begged for them to be relevant for a decade, and after Lizzie couldn't get anything more than 2-3 seats, they're basically as effective as the PPC. Paul isn't even going to win her riding, by a lot!

If the CPC cut into the Liberal seat count in Ontario by like 5-10 and flip a couple seats in BC/ATL then O'Toole gets another shot tbh. Unless he does something stupid he's proven to be a better leader than Scheer, which will help his cause
[close]
Going to be interesting to see if the Greens return to their old strategy of trying to up their popular vote so they can receive funding. It was May who decided to focus on key seats over national support, she basically obliterated their grassroots framework and centralized control to her office. Gonna be interesting if they revert to their old system in the future. The fact that they're fighting for all but one seat and polling behind the BQ nationally is fucking hilarious.

Completely agree that O'Toole is doing far better than expected, makes me wonder if throwing out my membership card when he won and retreating to provincial politics was a sound choice :/ Unless they gain substantial seats however I doubt he'll be kept on, the Tory touch is still present: give the party a gov't or gtfo. Given his military experience I'd be interested to see how he handles the semi-ongoing shitfest in CAF leadership.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on August 27, 2021, 02:11:10 am
Afghanistan is a shitshow
It was always going to end this way. Coulda stayed another 20 years for the same thing. Should've never went in there in the first place.

Once we killed Osama we should've bailed. These Afghanis would rather have Sharia law anyways. They don't want democracy. They'll have tribal wars for the next 25 years until the next superpower wants to try and tame them. We gave them everything necessary to fight these dudes and they just didn't care lol.
Most of the population does not want sharia. As I understand it there are some organizations within the country focusing on getting women out of the country due to the increased risk. Never the less Bush #2 caused this and now everyone is blaming trump or biden :D

I saw a report that 99% of Muslims in Afghanistan would support Sharia law.

Here’s a tweet with a picture of the data
https://twitter.com/swati_gs/status/1427265492868235273?s=21

These people like living that way. Most of the country is tribes run by warlords essentially. Backwards civilization.

I don't think mobs of people would be trying to escape the country, and basically killing themselves clinging onto planes if they "liked" living that way, and I don't think a nearly decade-old poll of 1,000 people is enough to support that stance.

Obviously the people in the “modernized” city of Kabul are gonna want to flee. They are some of the few people living in what we’d call generally normal conditions with basic human rights. The rest of the country lives in a way we can’t really comprehend because it’s so backwards. If a majority of people there supported the way of life we expect, surely they would have put up some form of resistance after we left them with all the necessary means of doing so. I just hope all the people that want to leave are able to get home.
Finally a good take here

Kabul is not Afghanistan, its like saying NYC is America. They have an ancient way of life and they are happy living that way free of western degeneracy.

Also 13 killed today at least RIP to my bros
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dokletian on August 27, 2021, 10:24:09 am
The sharia itself isn‘t defined but just a compilation of statements and instructions always left to be interpret. The Taliban do it in the most conservative way possible, something the majority does not agree with.

Anyway, the whole thing is totally lost and probably NATO‘s greatest defeat to this day. Plus - and this might be the only good thing we can possibly take from this debacle - after the last four turbulent years in the transatlantic alliance, we see once again that the United States simply aren’t fit for leadership anymore. Europe should finally take it‘s matters (and especially it‘s defense) into it‘s own hands and stop being so dependent.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on August 27, 2021, 06:25:27 pm
The sharia itself isn‘t defined but just a compilation of statements and instructions always left to be interpret. The Taliban do it in the most conservative way possible, something the majority does not agree with.

Anyway, the whole thing is totally lost and probably NATO‘s greatest defeat to this day. Plus - and this might be the only good thing we can possibly take from this debacle - after the last four turbulent years in the transatlantic alliance, we see once again that the United States simply aren’t fit for leadership anymore. Europe should finally take it‘s matters (and especially it‘s defense) into it‘s own hands and stop being so dependent.
It's not difficult to call Afghanistan NATO's greatest defeat when the three other wars were all victories. The U.S managed to remain fit for leadership after the categorically bigger defeat it faced in Vietnam. It doesn't follow that despite having a larger and more advanced military than ever, 22,000 casualties in a counter-insurgency over a 20 year period voids it's ability to protect it's allies.

Not certain what you mean by "turbulent last four years" in NATO. If by that you mean the Trump presidency, then your final recommendation for Europe to look to it's own defence basically aligns itself with his policy towards NATO.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dokletian on August 27, 2021, 08:55:35 pm
It's not difficult to call Afghanistan NATO's greatest defeat when the three other wars were all victories. The U.S managed to remain fit for leadership after the categorically bigger defeat it faced in Vietnam. It doesn't follow that despite having a larger and more advanced military than ever, 22,000 casualties in a counter-insurgency over a 20 year period voids it's ability to protect it's allies.

Not certain what you mean by "turbulent last four years" in NATO. If by that you mean the Trump presidency, then your final recommendation for Europe to look to it's own defence basically aligns itself with his policy towards NATO.
Should have said 'the West' instead of NATO, my bad.

The problem I see is not a military one; it would be a damn shame if even with this needlessly big military budget the United States wouldn't be capable of executing large military operations. No, it is much more one of political will to take over the leadership of the West and not just think 'America first'. The hasty and uncommunicative retreat out of Afghanistan is just another example of that apparently lacking.

By 'transatlantic alliance' I mean the traditionally close partnership between European countries and the US, not just NATO. The Trump presidency and it's continuous attacks have left a bitter taste for most Europeans. Even though Biden is trying his best to act like nothing has happened, these wounds will need time to heal. Though, will they have the sufficent time to? What if after the current chaos Trump gets another 4 years? Or another politican with similar views on foreign affairs?

I am by no means proposing for Europe to cut all it's ties with the United States - a proposal most unrealistic with nothing to gain from neither sides anyway - but the current events in addition to the experiences made by Europe the past years should lead to them being more pro-active and independent, since you simply cannot fully rely on the United States anymore.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on August 30, 2021, 04:10:48 pm
Latest election projection has the CPC in the lead, but still statistically tied with the LPC. I was not expecting these kind of numbers - but there's still a few weeks to go, so not over yet!

(https://i.gyazo.com/4b4e21299ad8592ce242ed08f68a4adb.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on September 01, 2021, 01:37:52 pm
Can we discuss inflation / if American is immune to it and they can just let the machine go brrrr because the banks own the money and not the people?

As this is a game forum let's keep it on topic, if the dollar does go nuclear the entire games industry will be wiped out.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on September 01, 2021, 06:53:51 pm
Can we discuss inflation / if American is immune to it and they can just let the machine go brrrr because the banks own the money and not the people?

As this is a game forum let's keep it on topic, if the dollar does go nuclear the entire games industry will be wiped out.

People will game regardless if the dollar is worth zero.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on September 01, 2021, 07:28:16 pm
Can we discuss inflation / if American is immune to it and they can just let the machine go brrrr because the banks own the money and not the people?

As this is a game forum let's keep it on topic, if the dollar does go nuclear the entire games industry will be wiped out.

People will game regardless if the dollar is worth zero.

Majority of large western development companies use dollars to pay developers / fund their own development staff. Customers aren't the issue.

You'll see the rise of Eastern influence in video game media just like we're seeing with social media.


Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on September 01, 2021, 08:51:42 pm
Is it a bad thing that I think Democracy is a joke and I wish the world still welcomed authoritarian style leadership and governments?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on September 01, 2021, 09:25:33 pm
Is it a bad thing that I think Democracy is a joke and I wish the world still welcomed authoritarian style leadership and governments?

Are you the Bart Baker of FSE
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dokletian on September 01, 2021, 09:44:54 pm
Is it a bad thing that I think Democracy is a joke and I wish the world still welcomed authoritarian style leadership and governments?
weak bait
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on September 01, 2021, 11:05:13 pm
Can we discuss inflation / if American is immune to it and they can just let the machine go brrrr because the banks own the money and not the people?

As this is a game forum let's keep it on topic, if the dollar does go nuclear the entire games industry will be wiped out.

People will game regardless if the dollar is worth zero.

Majority of large western development companies use dollars to pay developers / fund their own development staff. Customers aren't the issue.

You'll see the rise of Eastern influence in video game media just like we're seeing with social media.

ALL HAIL CHAIRMAN XI
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on September 01, 2021, 11:13:05 pm
Is it a bad thing that I think Democracy is a joke and I wish the world still welcomed authoritarian style leadership and governments?
weak bait

No, I am serious. Democracy is slow, weak and inefficient. We need a new form of government that combines the good morals of democracy with the efficiency and strength of an authoritarian government.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on September 01, 2021, 11:26:44 pm
Is it a bad thing that I think Democracy is a joke and I wish the world still welcomed authoritarian style leadership and governments?
weak bait

No, I am serious. Democracy is slow, weak and inefficient. We need a new form of government that combines the good morals of democracy with the efficiency and strength of an authoritarian government.

External powers - previous administration Vs good intentions - morals
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cazasar on September 02, 2021, 12:43:21 am
Is it a bad thing that I think Democracy is a joke and I wish the world still welcomed authoritarian style leadership and governments?
weak bait

No, I am serious. Democracy is slow, weak and inefficient. We need a new form of government that combines the good morals of democracy with the efficiency and strength of an authoritarian government.
Slow isnt bad if you ask me. Also history isnt really backing your argument pal
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: LEVIS on September 02, 2021, 03:57:02 am
Is it a bad thing that I think Democracy is a joke and I wish the world still welcomed authoritarian style leadership and governments?
weak bait

No, I am serious. Democracy is slow, weak and inefficient. We need a new form of government that combines the good morals of democracy with the efficiency and strength of an authoritarian government.
Slow isnt bad if you ask me. Also history isnt really backing your argument pal
let him be its been 5 years that he has been trying to be a pro csgo player
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Marceaux on September 02, 2021, 05:13:43 am
Is it a bad thing that I think Democracy is a joke and I wish the world still welcomed authoritarian style leadership and governments?
weak bait

No, I am serious. Democracy is slow, weak and inefficient. We need a new form of government that combines the good morals of democracy with the efficiency and strength of an authoritarian government.
Slow isnt bad if you ask me. Also history isnt really backing your argument pal

Slow is bad when you live in a massive country like the US. Where our democracy is an absolute shit show and is filled with corruption on both sides and a pile of shit so big and deep that there is no real fix at this point.

Also explain to me how history isn't backing my argument? Look at Napoleon and Hitler (countless others), both used their authority to quickly turn their nations into global superpowers. And are you implying that the democracy's we have today are the pinnacle of government? Do you honestly believe there is not a better system? If you don't think it can be better then I pity you. Do you really think that mankind's peak is a bunch of disjointed countries spread across our planet with massive differences between us and systems that take lifetimes to see change and progress? I sincerely hope not.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on September 02, 2021, 06:00:55 am
Is it a bad thing that I think Democracy is a joke and I wish the world still welcomed authoritarian style leadership and governments?
weak bait

No, I am serious. Democracy is slow, weak and inefficient. We need a new form of government that combines the good morals of democracy with the efficiency and strength of an authoritarian government.
Slow isnt bad if you ask me. Also history isnt really backing your argument pal

Slow is bad when you live in a massive country like the US. Where our democracy is an absolute shit show and is filled with corruption on both sides and a pile of shit so big and deep that there is no real fix at this point.

Also explain to me how history isn't backing my argument? Look at Napoleon and Hitler (countless others), both used their authority to quickly turn their nations into global superpowers. And are you implying that the democracy's we have today are the pinnacle of government? Do you honestly believe there is not a better system? If you don't think it can be better then I pity you. Do you really think that mankind's peak is a bunch of disjointed countries spread across our planet with massive differences between us and systems that take lifetimes to see change and progress? I sincerely hope not.

(https://c.tenor.com/E0LX3y-WcpcAAAAC/thats-bait-mad-max.gif)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on September 02, 2021, 06:18:01 am
Bring back feudalism
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on September 02, 2021, 10:11:23 am
Is it a bad thing that I think Democracy is a joke and I wish the world still welcomed authoritarian style leadership and governments?

Yes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fwuffy on September 02, 2021, 04:14:13 pm
Bring back feudalism
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on September 02, 2021, 08:55:47 pm
Is it a bad thing that I think Democracy is a joke and I wish the world still welcomed authoritarian style leadership and governments?

Yes.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~Midnight~ on September 02, 2021, 10:24:35 pm
Bring back feudalism
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 10, 2021, 05:16:42 am
Canadian election update:

Projections show it to be MAD close
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/5b29fbe90ae1cedc260bc7de2c7bc213.png)
[close]

Liberals stopped the bleeding but they lost some ground, English debates will make things clearer - but also people don't really watch the debates so idk

NDP still projected for a seat increase, they've done well

Bloc set to maintain their hold on rural QC, altho CPC looking to flip a few

Like all CDN elections, it'll come down to GTA toss-ups, key Atlantic seats, and BC suburbs

also I must say, Canada is frighteningly regional in its politics. Americans and Europeans complain about this as well generally but in CA it's kinda insane. CPC swept two whole provinces last election and managed merely opposition. Quebec, BC and the Maritimes are not too politically regionalized but in the rest of Canada geography essentially dictates voting intentions and that's frankly concerning.

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: LEVIS on September 10, 2021, 05:22:04 am
Canadian election update:

Projections show it to be MAD close
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/5b29fbe90ae1cedc260bc7de2c7bc213.png)
[close]

Liberals stopped the bleeding but they lost some ground, English debates will make things clearer - but also people don't really watch the debates so idk

NDP still projected for a seat increase, they've done well

Bloc set to maintain their hold on rural QC, altho CPC looking to flip a few

Like all CDN elections, it'll come down to GTA toss-ups, key Atlantic seats, and BC suburbs

also I must say, Canada is frighteningly regional in its politics. Americans and Europeans complain about this as well generally but in CA it's kinda insane. CPC swept two whole provinces last election and managed merely opposition. Quebec, BC and the Maritimes are not too politically regionalized but in the rest of Canada geography essentially dictates voting intentions and that's frankly concerning.
we need the rhino do this again this time around
(https://i.gyazo.com/d6d2bb4606f14b6804ff31daf85e70b0.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 11, 2021, 03:23:08 am
Spoiler
Canadian election update:

Projections show it to be MAD close
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/5b29fbe90ae1cedc260bc7de2c7bc213.png)
[close]

Liberals stopped the bleeding but they lost some ground, English debates will make things clearer - but also people don't really watch the debates so idk

NDP still projected for a seat increase, they've done well

Bloc set to maintain their hold on rural QC, altho CPC looking to flip a few

Like all CDN elections, it'll come down to GTA toss-ups, key Atlantic seats, and BC suburbs

also I must say, Canada is frighteningly regional in its politics. Americans and Europeans complain about this as well generally but in CA it's kinda insane. CPC swept two whole provinces last election and managed merely opposition. Quebec, BC and the Maritimes are not too politically regionalized but in the rest of Canada geography essentially dictates voting intentions and that's frankly concerning.
[close]
Meh, I'd say modern Western alienation is still a far cry away from the days of Reform and the CA.

Our lack of a functional upper chamber to promote regional interests is a driving factor there (it's why Reform used to have a hard on for a triple-E senate), in addition to insane party discipline that means provinces need to really swing for one party or another if they're going to influence federal policy.

Take on the English debate: Trudeau gave of an aura of mild panic the entire time, not a great night for him overall. O'Toole kinda just existed, definitely did a good job on hitting home the "moderate man" image. Singh made his rehearsed talking points seem natural enough, but beyond a few sound bites for the Toronto Star his arguments seemed mostly unsubstantive. Paul, likewise with O'Toole existed. Her jab at Trudeau being a "fake feminist" felt flat af. I'm not entirely confident Blanchet caught on to the "English" part of the debate.

Overall: anytime Trudeau opened his mouth shouting ensued, moderator asked unethically leading questions (especially the one on the QC secularism bill). Might hurt Trudeau a little, but no one gave a Mulroney or Layton worthy performance so it's probably inconsequential.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: LEVIS on September 11, 2021, 04:38:27 am
Spoiler
Canadian election update:

Projections show it to be MAD close
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/5b29fbe90ae1cedc260bc7de2c7bc213.png)
[close]

Liberals stopped the bleeding but they lost some ground, English debates will make things clearer - but also people don't really watch the debates so idk

NDP still projected for a seat increase, they've done well

Bloc set to maintain their hold on rural QC, altho CPC looking to flip a few

Like all CDN elections, it'll come down to GTA toss-ups, key Atlantic seats, and BC suburbs

also I must say, Canada is frighteningly regional in its politics. Americans and Europeans complain about this as well generally but in CA it's kinda insane. CPC swept two whole provinces last election and managed merely opposition. Quebec, BC and the Maritimes are not too politically regionalized but in the rest of Canada geography essentially dictates voting intentions and that's frankly concerning.
[close]
Meh, I'd say modern Western alienation is still a far cry away from the days of Reform and the CA.

Our lack of a functional upper chamber to promote regional interests is a driving factor there (it's why Reform used to have a hard on for a triple-E senate), in addition to insane party discipline that means provinces need to really swing for one party or another if they're going to influence federal policy.

Take on the English debate: Trudeau gave of an aura of mild panic the entire time, not a great night for him overall. O'Toole kinda just existed, definitely did a good job on hitting home the "moderate man" image. Singh made his rehearsed talking points seem natural enough, but beyond a few sound bites for the Toronto Star his arguments seemed mostly unsubstantive. Paul, likewise with O'Toole existed. Her jab at Trudeau being a "fake feminist" felt flat af. I'm not entirely confident Blanchet caught on to the "English" part of the debate.

Overall: anytime Trudeau opened his mouth shouting ensued, moderator asked unethically leading questions (especially the one on the QC secularism bill). Might hurt Trudeau a little, but no one gave a Mulroney or Layton worthy performance so it's probably inconsequential.
The moderator wasn't the best tbh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 11, 2021, 04:57:29 am
Spoiler
Canadian election update:

Projections show it to be MAD close
Spoiler
(https://i.gyazo.com/5b29fbe90ae1cedc260bc7de2c7bc213.png)
[close]

Liberals stopped the bleeding but they lost some ground, English debates will make things clearer - but also people don't really watch the debates so idk

NDP still projected for a seat increase, they've done well

Bloc set to maintain their hold on rural QC, altho CPC looking to flip a few

Like all CDN elections, it'll come down to GTA toss-ups, key Atlantic seats, and BC suburbs

also I must say, Canada is frighteningly regional in its politics. Americans and Europeans complain about this as well generally but in CA it's kinda insane. CPC swept two whole provinces last election and managed merely opposition. Quebec, BC and the Maritimes are not too politically regionalized but in the rest of Canada geography essentially dictates voting intentions and that's frankly concerning.
[close]
Meh, I'd say modern Western alienation is still a far cry away from the days of Reform and the CA.

Our lack of a functional upper chamber to promote regional interests is a driving factor there (it's why Reform used to have a hard on for a triple-E senate), in addition to insane party discipline that means provinces need to really swing for one party or another if they're going to influence federal policy.

Take on the English debate: Trudeau gave of an aura of mild panic the entire time, not a great night for him overall. O'Toole kinda just existed, definitely did a good job on hitting home the "moderate man" image. Singh made his rehearsed talking points seem natural enough, but beyond a few sound bites for the Toronto Star his arguments seemed mostly unsubstantive. Paul, likewise with O'Toole existed. Her jab at Trudeau being a "fake feminist" felt flat af. I'm not entirely confident Blanchet caught on to the "English" part of the debate.

Overall: anytime Trudeau opened his mouth shouting ensued, moderator asked unethically leading questions (especially the one on the QC secularism bill). Might hurt Trudeau a little, but no one gave a Mulroney or Layton worthy performance so it's probably inconsequential.
harper used the "i just exist please dont hurt me" for like 6 election wins in a row and the cpc somehow forgot that that's how you win as a conservative in canada
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 21, 2021, 05:16:38 am
(https://i.gyazo.com/2488b5aa4beb9ac9fc8388c453605980.png)
The results so far. As widely predicted the Liberals take another minority. It'll be interesting to see how many seats the government will be though.

This further underscores the pointlessness of this election lol. it's 2019 basically on repeat. please stop calling them justin im tired
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: HuntehPetros on September 21, 2021, 05:21:13 am
(https://i.gyazo.com/2488b5aa4beb9ac9fc8388c453605980.png)
The results so far. As widely predicted the Liberals take another minority. It'll be interesting to see how many seats the government will be though.

This further underscores the pointlessness of this election lol. it's 2019 basically on repeat. please stop calling them justin im tired
bruh.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on September 21, 2021, 05:28:20 am
love that the conservatives got more seats in the atlantic provinces tho, that was cool.
also ndp did a lot better
bloc isn't a one trick pony anymore, yves blanchet is a real political force

honestly it's crazy the way Canadians vote. such hyper regionalization. toronto votes vote on masse for a guy who can't remember how many times he did blackface. we are a silly country with a silly government
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on September 21, 2021, 12:03:12 pm
*rings little bell*

Can we talk about inflation please helloooo UK got no food
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: LEVIS on September 21, 2021, 01:01:06 pm
*rings little bell*

Can we talk about inflation please helloooo UK got no food
i mean except fish n ship what are you guys really missing? not much tbh
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on September 21, 2021, 05:12:05 pm
*rings little bell*

Can we talk about inflation please helloooo UK got no food
i mean except fish n ship what are you guys really missing? not much tbh

(https://i.gyazo.com/fa766e22f1149507eec6867af7705407.png)

 :'(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Conway on September 22, 2021, 03:33:49 am
Spoiler
Canadian election szn!

LPC started out with a decent chance of a majority but a week into the campaign they've not run a good one so far, while the CPC has rolled out some popular policy proposals

Latest projections have the Liberals winning another minority but with less seats - due in large part to a more competitive CPC than last time and a more stable NDP

Popular vote has tightened in the past few days with the CPC and LPC running at basically a dead heat

Bloc facing some serious questions in whether they can repeat last election's success in Quebec

Green party imploding and the PPC not a serious threat

Gonna be an interesting one! You can check out the polls and projections at 338canada.com
[close]
My overall prediction is a Lib min, Trudeau pulls a Mulroney and hands a shitfest to Freeland come next election. All other parties vapourize their leadership (Except for Bernier, who is gunned down by the dairy cartel).
Tory Syndrome here we come, the CPC is going back hard right.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on October 01, 2021, 04:41:37 am
But Mr Scholz says it is time for a new coalition with the Greens and liberals.

Sounds scary xd
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: fruitocino on October 02, 2021, 10:43:16 am
But Mr Scholz says it is time for a new coalition with the Greens and liberals.

Sounds scary xd

The SPD/Greens coalition worked just fine last time around (although as chancellors Scholz and Schröder are worlds apart ;D)
It will be interesting to see if they manage to find some sort of middle ground with the liberals, their party platforms dont mix very well
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on October 02, 2021, 03:30:18 pm
what about the Fils De Pute party???
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on November 15, 2021, 07:57:05 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNDgcjVGHIw

This is actually a video I wouldn't expect NYT to make.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hess on November 15, 2021, 08:17:30 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNDgcjVGHIw

This is actually a video I wouldn't expect NYT to make.

I believe the whole "liberal vs. conservative" argument is terrible, I wouldn't even consider "liberals" liberals, but rather progressives, people who want massive social changes. I consider liberals to be people who value personal freedoms and liberty, not people who are trying to get you fired over a vaccine mandate or because you won't participate in "diversity" training or even wish death upon people who died from covid that voted for Trump. I also feel that this "liberal vs. conservative" argument is very black and white when in reality, most people have different beliefs upon specific issues. The mainstream media, in general, is divisive, ignorant, and honestly, just a business fed on controversy and lies. The less I watched/read about it, the more peaceful life has been.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on November 18, 2021, 09:40:36 am
This is actually a video I wouldn't expect NYT to make.
It's a fucking op-ed news sites publish dozens of them every day. It's honestly so depressing to read this forum post along with the comments of that video and see all the people who have obviously never read a single article past the headline. Despite what conservative outlets would have you believe the "left-wing" media isn't one giant circle jerk that is too afraid to criticize it's own base.

As for the video itself, I found it to be pretty boring. Yeah, the major cities on the west coast are overcrowded poorly zoned/designed shitholes that nobody wants to move from because property values continue to rise and the weather is nice. It's baby's liberal criticism that conservatives will always eat up. The framing of the video is terrible too, everyone seems to forget that we live in a democracy and that just because a certain party is currently in power in a certain area doesn't mean they can just push through legislation on a whim, they are still beholden to their constituents who will not always vote in predictably left-wing or right-wing ways. You can try to paint it as hypocrisy all you want in the broader picture but it turns out to be a little more complicated than that when you actually dig into the details.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on November 18, 2021, 03:33:19 pm
You act like I give a shit about politics. I was just posting it because I wasn’t expecting NYT to make something like this. Tbh I never see either side criticize their own side very often when I do watch the news (which is rare). The media does lie quite a bit so you never know what’s true from either side. :)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on November 18, 2021, 05:58:46 pm
If it’s so depressing delete your account
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on November 18, 2021, 09:32:40 pm
This is actually a video I wouldn't expect NYT to make.
It's a fucking op-ed news sites publish dozens of them every day. It's honestly so depressing to read this forum post along with the comments of that video and see all the people who have obviously never read a single article past the headline. Despite what conservative outlets would have you believe the "left-wing" media isn't one giant circle jerk that is too afraid to criticize it's own base.

As for the video itself, I found it to be pretty boring. Yeah, the major cities on the west coast are overcrowded poorly zoned/designed shitholes that nobody wants to move from because property values continue to rise and the weather is nice. It's baby's liberal criticism that conservatives will always eat up. The framing of the video is terrible too, everyone seems to forget that we live in a democracy and that just because a certain party is currently in power in a certain area doesn't mean they can just push through legislation on a whim, they are still beholden to their constituents who will not always vote in predictably left-wing or right-wing ways. You can try to paint it as hypocrisy all you want in the broader picture but it turns out to be a little more complicated than that when you actually dig into the details.
ratio
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MikeyBruh on November 18, 2021, 09:33:55 pm
ratio
This is actually a video I wouldn't expect NYT to make.
It's a fucking op-ed news sites publish dozens of them every day. It's honestly so depressing to read this forum post along with the comments of that video and see all the people who have obviously never read a single article past the headline. Despite what conservative outlets would have you believe the "left-wing" media isn't one giant circle jerk that is too afraid to criticize it's own base.

As for the video itself, I found it to be pretty boring. Yeah, the major cities on the west coast are overcrowded poorly zoned/designed shitholes that nobody wants to move from because property values continue to rise and the weather is nice. It's baby's liberal criticism that conservatives will always eat up. The framing of the video is terrible too, everyone seems to forget that we live in a democracy and that just because a certain party is currently in power in a certain area doesn't mean they can just push through legislation on a whim, they are still beholden to their constituents who will not always vote in predictably left-wing or right-wing ways. You can try to paint it as hypocrisy all you want in the broader picture but it turns out to be a little more complicated than that when you actually dig into the details.
(https://i.imgur.com/eqKTE7Xh.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on November 19, 2021, 12:14:41 am
You act like I give a shit about politics. I was just posting it because I wasn’t expecting NYT to make something like this. Tbh I never see either side criticize their own side very often when I do watch the news (which is rare). The media does lie quite a bit so you never know what’s true from either side. :)
If you come into the politics thread and post about it you're kind of giving the impression that you at least somewhat care about it and are opening yourself up for people to respond to it as I did.

If it’s so depressing delete your account
That would be no fun tho :(
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on November 19, 2021, 05:42:55 pm
Goomba is gonna be a politician one day and that scares me
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on November 19, 2021, 09:13:52 pm
I'm glad the jury got it right and said not guilty to all charges in the Kyle Rittenhouse case.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on November 19, 2021, 09:15:59 pm
I'm sad the jury got it wrong and said not guilty to all charges in the Kyle Rittenhouse case.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on November 19, 2021, 11:43:09 pm
I'm glad the jury got it right and said not guilty to all charges in the Kyle Rittenhouse case.

So happy for him, justice has been served  ;D

I'm sad the jury got it wrong and said not guilty to all charges in the Kyle Rittenhouse case.

Racist  ;D
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on November 20, 2021, 04:40:06 am
I'm glad the jury got it right and said not guilty to all charges in the Kyle Rittenhouse case.

So happy for him, justice has been served  ;D

I'm sad the jury got it wrong and said not guilty to all charges in the Kyle Rittenhouse case.

Racist  ;D
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/330/809/d90.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on November 20, 2021, 04:45:29 am
I'm glad the jury got it right and said not guilty to all charges in the Kyle Rittenhouse case.

So happy for him, justice has been served  ;D

I'm sad the jury got it wrong and said not guilty to all charges in the Kyle Rittenhouse case.

Racist  ;D
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/330/809/d90.png)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on November 20, 2021, 04:49:35 am
Is that you
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on November 20, 2021, 05:32:05 am
Is that you

(https://c.tenor.com/HDXIhTFsQDEAAAAM/kayne-west-selfie.gif)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MikeyBruh on November 20, 2021, 06:49:00 am
Is that you

(https://c.tenor.com/HDXIhTFsQDEAAAAM/kayne-west-selfie.gif)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on November 20, 2021, 07:06:42 am
Is that you

(https://c.tenor.com/HDXIhTFsQDEAAAAM/kayne-west-selfie.gif)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on January 05, 2022, 12:06:03 am
Can we discuss inflation / if American is immune to it and they can just let the machine go brrrr because the banks own the money and not the people?

As this is a game forum let's keep it on topic, if the dollar does go nuclear the entire games industry will be wiped out.


Politics thread that doesn't talk about finances is like a cake without any cream I'll eat it sure but where's my cream.

*Rubs fingernails on jacket* well well well I see your purse is looking mighty light there partner. Oh what's this? Covid? Banks manipulation of the markets? Federal reserve IS going to raise interest rates? CHINA? NFT scams and crypto bubble ? Recession that'll make 2008 look like a fart?

Post brought to you by chocolate milky on a cold night.jpeg

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on February 23, 2022, 12:18:03 am
Stay safe Ukrainians

This shits popping off
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: LEVIS on February 23, 2022, 12:30:02 am
Is team UA still gonna happen ? since....
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on February 23, 2022, 02:40:03 pm
Is team UA still gonna happen ? since....
Dw its about to happen IRL
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on February 23, 2022, 02:51:11 pm
Is team UA still gonna happen ? since....
Dw its about to happen IRL

At least they can't autoblock irl
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DayBoul on February 23, 2022, 05:33:06 pm
they do, we just cant prove it
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Glenn on February 24, 2022, 05:32:20 am
ready for this thread to pop off
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Shadey on February 24, 2022, 08:16:06 am
Putin testing the waters to see how much he can get away with.

Sounds very familiar.


Spoiler
(https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/7/2018/09/FF87D8_LEAD-e23f88d.jpg?quality=90&resize=768%2C574)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Flexi. on February 24, 2022, 08:23:08 am
ready for this thread to pop off
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kubus on February 24, 2022, 09:35:10 am
ready for this thread to pop off
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on February 24, 2022, 10:49:55 am
Can we discuss inflation / if American is immune to it and they can just let the machine go brrrr because the banks own the money and not the people?

As this is a game forum let's keep it on topic, if the dollar does go nuclear the entire games industry will be wiped out.


Politics thread that doesn't talk about finances is like a cake without any cream I'll eat it sure but where's my cream.

*Rubs fingernails on jacket* well well well I see your purse is looking mighty light there partner. Oh what's this? Covid? Banks manipulation of the markets? Federal reserve IS going to raise interest rates? CHINA? NFT scams and crypto bubble ? Recession that'll make 2008 look like a fart?

Post brought to you by chocolate milky on a cold night.jpeg

7.5!!!!!!!! If you measure it the old way its like 15% ++++ we're looking at >prices< doubling every 10 years! Putin make the gas go so high omg $100 a barrel will this mean Coke a Cola is more expensive I CANT COPE ANYMORE

NATO DID AN OOPS, GERMANY HELLO COME HELP >says no, sry we're close :O *Breaking* LeTs gO bRaNdoN* says something from a teleprompter !!!!!!!! Sheep say BAH!

Have you had your 7th booster yet?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on February 24, 2022, 11:13:28 am
Dont worry, if it ever comes to war we have our paradox strategy gamers!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Nock on February 24, 2022, 12:33:40 pm
Hoping our ukrainians nw homies stay safe
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Flexi. on February 24, 2022, 12:35:38 pm
Hoping our ukrainians nw homies stay safe
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Zappy on February 24, 2022, 12:40:38 pm
Stay safe
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: LEVIS on February 24, 2022, 12:55:03 pm
1 hope 1 savior
(https://c.tenor.com/gbh6xCHP0q0AAAAC/come-on-come-at-me.gif)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: AlekoTheGreek on February 24, 2022, 12:58:44 pm
Let's hope casualties will be at a minimum on both sides. My best and honest wishes on Ukrainians and Russians of this community. Hopefully your friends and family will come out of it unscathed.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dusbled on February 24, 2022, 01:38:56 pm
Hoping our ukrainians nw homies stay safe
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kubus on February 24, 2022, 03:53:02 pm
Stay safe
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on February 24, 2022, 05:05:06 pm
Stay safe
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Glenn on February 24, 2022, 05:07:36 pm
Stay safe
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Rutger Müller on February 24, 2022, 06:32:25 pm
I’m glad people here are being genuine about it no matter what side your on.
I keep seeing shit like “Ukraine is 1 shot” etc or jokes about either side dying which I understand is just joking around and they are naive children. When I was young I thought going to war would be badass and super fun.
I don’t have any Ukrainian or Russian friends but It will become very real when your friends are the ones getting blown up

No more brother wars <3
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on February 24, 2022, 06:35:55 pm
I’m glad people here are being genuine about it no matter what side your on.
I keep seeing shit like “Ukraine is 1 shot” etc or jokes about either side dying which I understand is just joking around and they are naive children. When I was young I thought going to war would be badass and super fun.
I don’t have any Ukrainian or Russian friends but It will become very real when your friends are the ones getting blown up

No more brother wars <3
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: |Viper| on February 24, 2022, 06:36:14 pm
I’m glad people here are being genuine about it no matter what side your on.
I keep seeing shit like “Ukraine is 1 shot” etc or jokes about either side dying which I understand is just joking around and they are naive children. When I was young I thought going to war would be badass and super fun.
I don’t have any Ukrainian or Russian friends but It will become very real when your friends are the ones getting blown up

No more brother wars <3
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on February 24, 2022, 07:26:07 pm
Good thing we got those manpads and javelins to the Ukrainians before this all popped off. Already videos of planes and helicopters getting shot down.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: No0B on February 24, 2022, 07:57:59 pm
According to Biden were not going to war
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ZeroNight on February 24, 2022, 08:06:23 pm
Good thing we got those manpads and javelins to the Ukrainians before this all popped off. Already videos of planes and helicopters getting shot down.

we gave them helments so when the helicopters fall on their heads they dont get hurt 8) :-\
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: RUS_Flusha90 on February 24, 2022, 08:08:40 pm
Good thing we got those manpads and javelins to the Ukrainians before this all popped off. Already videos of planes and helicopters getting shot down.

we gave them helments so when the helicopters fall on their heads they dont get hurt 8) :-\
1941?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MarjioviçR on February 24, 2022, 08:17:46 pm
Stay safe
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on February 25, 2022, 01:20:43 am
Good thing we got those manpads and javelins to the Ukrainians before this all popped off. Already videos of planes and helicopters getting shot down.
reports are that those javelins are kicking ass! same with the british NLAWs. even tho russia has the armor advantage by far ukraine is doing a good job inflicting damage
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on February 25, 2022, 01:29:03 am
Good thing we got those manpads and javelins to the Ukrainians before this all popped off. Already videos of planes and helicopters getting shot down.

we gave them helments so when the helicopters fall on their heads they dont get hurt 8) :-\
1941?

Go attack a nato member so USA can delete Russia in 1 minute
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: LEVIS on February 25, 2022, 01:30:08 am
Good thing we got those manpads and javelins to the Ukrainians before this all popped off. Already videos of planes and helicopters getting shot down.

we gave them helments so when the helicopters fall on their heads they dont get hurt 8) :-\
1941?

Go attack a nato member so USA can delete Russia in 1 minute
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: IcePimpDaddy on February 25, 2022, 02:06:42 am
Good thing we got those manpads and javelins to the Ukrainians before this all popped off. Already videos of planes and helicopters getting shot down.

we gave them helments so when the helicopters fall on their heads they dont get hurt 8) :-\
1941?

Go attack a nato member so USA can delete Russia in 1 minute
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Zzehth on February 25, 2022, 02:43:59 am
Thanks God i was born in Latam.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on February 25, 2022, 04:18:43 am
Thanks God i was born in Latam.

¡El burro tiene olor a lavanda! Esto es un galimatías. Por favor ignora todo lo que digo. Estos blancos asumirán que en realidad me estoy comunicando contigo. Te extraño viejo amigo.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MarxeiL on February 25, 2022, 07:11:25 am
What a great morning to be alive
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Tw1sT[eR] on February 25, 2022, 07:12:24 am
What a great morning to be alive
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: crazypro25. on February 25, 2022, 09:09:50 am
Stay strong, my Ukrainian friends!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Luke_Blacktham on February 25, 2022, 10:12:43 am
What a great morning to be alive
❤️
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Tw1sT[eR] on February 25, 2022, 11:18:39 pm
We appreciate all the kind words guys, thank you
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Steinmann on February 25, 2022, 11:21:16 pm
We appreciate all the kind words guys, thank you
ledabil
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Desant on February 26, 2022, 12:02:24 am
We appreciate all the kind words guys, thank you
ledabil

anton gandon
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BlueMoon_IT on February 26, 2022, 12:39:30 am
Good thing we got those manpads and javelins to the Ukrainians before this all popped off. Already videos of planes and helicopters getting shot down.

we gave them helments so when the helicopters fall on their heads they dont get hurt 8) :-\
1941?

Go attack a nato member so USA can delete Russia in 1 minute
yes please, reset humanity get the nukes ready
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Shadey on February 26, 2022, 09:41:31 am
What a great morning to be alive
Hope you're okay David ❤️🇺🇦
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: LEVIS on February 26, 2022, 02:17:14 pm
What a great morning to be alive
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MarxeiL on February 26, 2022, 03:44:49 pm
What a great morning to be alive
Hope you're okay David ❤️🇺🇦
Okay yet ❤️
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MarjioviçR on February 26, 2022, 03:46:28 pm
UKRAINIAN ARTILLERY IS LED BY GOD
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: DayBoul on February 28, 2022, 03:39:09 pm
I hope only twister and ext_kill survive this
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Eamon on February 28, 2022, 04:40:11 pm
I hope twister and ext_kill survive this

fixed for you
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on February 28, 2022, 05:48:31 pm
https://twitter.com/OmiljeniDaidza/status/1498240417858478080
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on February 28, 2022, 05:53:20 pm
"Never let a good opportunity go to waste" #GypsyGrindset #Gyptrillionaire

https://twitter.com/miaulodetz/status/1498021378221645825
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Knightmare on March 01, 2022, 04:54:33 pm
"Never let a good opportunity go to waste" #GypsyGrindset #Gyptrillionaire

https://twitter.com/miaulodetz/status/1498021378221645825
weakest romanian immigrant to ukraine mashallah
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on March 09, 2022, 12:41:45 am
I feel sorry for the youth of Russia, they're going to face a terrible economic time going forwards (next 5 years minimum) for a boomer USSR fantasy...

The young adults are the future of any nation, if you're opposed to immigration but hate a regime just think about letting their 18-30 year olds come live in your country and watch the ex nation crumble, chances are they think exactly like you anyways. Greece is currently experiencing this exit.

Main land Europe needs a population booster anyways and I'm glad the UK is handing out visa even if it's slow
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on April 27, 2022, 05:14:01 am
Remember when I used to post in here... ah... good times.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on April 27, 2022, 05:52:32 am
Remember when I used to post in here... ah... good times.
Yes, yes. Good times. Let's get back to your room sir.
(https://moneyinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/shutterstock_717307528-750x500.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Piktonss on April 27, 2022, 06:19:54 am
Remember when I used to post in here... ah... good times.
Yes, yes. Good times. Let's get back to your room sir.
Spoiler
(https://moneyinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/shutterstock_717307528-750x500.jpg)
[close]
Yes, yes. But let's get you back to your room as well sir.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Fartknocker on April 28, 2022, 08:12:36 am
Remember when I used to post in here... ah... good times.
Yes, yes. Good times. Let's get back to your room sir.
Spoiler
(https://moneyinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/shutterstock_717307528-750x500.jpg)
[close]
Yes, yes. But let's get you back to your room as well sir.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXdU6F0D87M
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Athene on April 29, 2022, 06:21:52 am
Ukraine will win the war 8)

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 04, 2022, 03:48:05 am
Can you truely ”win” a war though? You can surrvive a war, and I truely hope Ukraine does, and that they manage to rebuild their country.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on May 06, 2022, 04:27:53 pm
Can you truely ”win” a war though? You can surrvive a war, and I truely hope Ukraine does, and that they manage to rebuild their country.

yeah, in ukraine's case i'd argue surviving = winning
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on May 06, 2022, 06:19:17 pm
Rest In Peace to all the forced conscripts from east ukraine
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: LEVIS on May 06, 2022, 06:22:18 pm
Can you truely ”win” a war though? You can surrvive a war, and I truely hope Ukraine does, and that they manage to rebuild their country.

yeah, in ukraine's case i'd argue surviving = winning
at this point if there is no major changes in the war, the ''looser'' will be the one that flinch first but by the looks of it we will have a summer of intense combat
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Furrnox on May 07, 2022, 03:26:24 pm
Can you truely ”win” a war though? You can surrvive a war, and I truely hope Ukraine does, and that they manage to rebuild their country.

yeah, in ukraine's case i'd argue surviving = winning

In some sense I suppose but do you really think the people who’ve lost their homes, their livelyhoods, their parents, their children, their husbands, their wives or their limbs will feel like they’ve won anything?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on May 07, 2022, 04:58:06 pm
Can you truely ”win” a war though? You can surrvive a war, and I truely hope Ukraine does, and that they manage to rebuild their country.

yeah, in ukraine's case i'd argue surviving = winning

In some sense I suppose but do you really think the people who’ve lost their homes, their livelyhoods, their parents, their children, their husbands, their wives or their limbs will feel like they’ve won anything?
No, just like in every war ever
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on May 08, 2022, 02:26:39 pm
https://twitter.com/FirearmsRetro/status/1522950315405987846
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on May 24, 2022, 12:37:14 am
(https://preview.redd.it/i9pbya0c8f091.jpg?width=505&auto=webp&s=a0452e1385624cf43ee68b4334224a8cb3fd04a0)

guys obama started caring
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Mexican on May 24, 2022, 08:32:12 pm
Hawk once aren’t you literally inbred?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: LEVIS on May 24, 2022, 09:00:52 pm
Hawk once aren’t you literally inbred?
don't bully him, he cant stand up to defend himself
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: ~NickCole~ on May 26, 2022, 03:34:15 pm
Hawk once aren’t you literally inbred?
don't bully him, he cant stand up to defend himself
:o
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on May 28, 2022, 04:19:24 am
Hawk once aren’t you literally inbred?

ok literal autist

Hawk once aren’t you literally inbred?
don't bully him, he cant stand up to defend himself

ok french fatty
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on May 28, 2022, 06:14:07 am
Hawk once aren’t you literally inbred?
can you succeed at suicide
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Gluk the Walrus on June 08, 2022, 05:43:45 am
Rare gluk post about to drop...


you're all fucking wrong.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Mexican on June 09, 2022, 12:55:18 am
Hawk once aren’t you literally inbred?
can you succeed at suicide

This man fucks

Rare gluk post about to drop...


you're all fucking wrong.

You might be on to something there bud
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Mexican on June 24, 2022, 10:09:34 pm
I feel unusually happy today
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on June 24, 2022, 10:59:22 pm
I feel unusually happy today

Maybe you were an abortion in a past life?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cwater on June 25, 2022, 01:16:36 am
I feel unusually happy today
Literally no one asked or cares
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phailur on June 27, 2022, 04:24:06 pm
I feel unusually happy today

Maybe you were an abortion in a past life?
+ rep good post
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on June 28, 2022, 05:59:17 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-61968607

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aLtGwHqX8M
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on June 28, 2022, 07:52:14 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-61968607

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aLtGwHqX8M

we talk about relevant nations here
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on June 28, 2022, 08:25:19 pm
Union Jack will look funny without the blue tho :/
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on June 28, 2022, 11:04:46 pm
I feel unusually happy today
I'll bait.

Why?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: IcePimpDaddy on June 30, 2022, 04:18:17 pm
I feel unusually happy today
I'll bait.

Why?
Dear Unicorn,
 this thread is about political discussion
please keep it that way

Best,
Soulja Boy
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Mexican on July 03, 2022, 01:39:18 am
I feel unusually happy today
I'll bait.

Why?
Roe v Wade overturned
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on July 03, 2022, 01:58:37 am
I feel unusually happy today
I'll bait.

Why?
Roe v Wade overturned

mexicant is reaching levels of retardation I didn't know he could this is actually amazing

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MikeyBruh on July 03, 2022, 02:10:30 am
never heard of this roe guy but no shot he's beating prime Dwayne Wade. 07 wade was just so different. Unless Roe is like prime Jordan no shot he beats wade a second time
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Mexican on July 03, 2022, 02:49:18 am
I feel unusually happy today
I'll bait.

Why?
Roe v Wade overturned

mexicant is reaching levels of retardation I didn't know he could this is actually amazing

In your head rent free
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on July 03, 2022, 03:06:50 am
I feel unusually happy today
I'll bait.

Why?
Roe v Wade overturned
I love it when the government tells me what medical procedures I can and cannot have!

The why was more why are you happy at it getting overturned?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on July 03, 2022, 03:09:31 am
I feel unusually happy today
I'll bait.

Why?
Roe v Wade overturned

mexicant is reaching levels of retardation I didn't know he could this is actually amazing

In your head rent free

not really I make fun of all dumbasses equally
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on July 03, 2022, 04:18:02 am
https://ballotpedia.org/Moore_v._Harper

This is it friendlies. The second those lovely folks from the Federalist Society decide that the state legislatures can ignore voter tallies regardless of the majority, then you can kiss the corpse of this democracy goodbye.

Then again, it is "deeply rooted in tradition and history" for this country to go full blown fascistic.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on July 03, 2022, 04:33:38 am
https://ballotpedia.org/Moore_v._Harper

This is it friendlies. The second those lovely folks from the Federalist Society decide that the state legislatures can ignore voter tallies regardless of the majority, then you can kiss the corpse of this democracy goodbye.

Then again, it is "deeply rooted in tradition and history" for this country to go full blown fascistic.
that case seems to be more focused on gerrymandering and maps, or am i reading it wrong? whats the vote portion
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Mexican on July 03, 2022, 06:06:55 am
I feel unusually happy today
I'll bait.

Why?
Roe v Wade overturned
I love it when the government tells me what medical procedures I can and cannot have!

The why was more why are you happy at it getting overturned?

Less abortion is good
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Sgt.Winters on July 03, 2022, 06:16:45 am
https://ballotpedia.org/Moore_v._Harper

This is it friendlies. The second those lovely folks from the Federalist Society decide that the state legislatures can ignore voter tallies regardless of the majority, then you can kiss the corpse of this democracy goodbye.

Then again, it is "deeply rooted in tradition and history" for this country to go full blown fascistic.
that case seems to be more focused on gerrymandering and maps, or am i reading it wrong? whats the vote portion

Read the highlights portion. They are going to make the state legislators the sole regulators of the election. The courts won't be able to stop them if that's the case, and they will be able to implement whatever shenanigans they wish. The GOP tried this in 2020 but was only stopped because the preexisting laws. Now they are taking it straight to the Supreme Court to change that. The gerrymandering is just the icing on the cake.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on July 03, 2022, 10:37:53 am
I'm never having casual sex with Americans ever again  >:( too risky!!
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on July 03, 2022, 10:54:36 am
I feel unusually happy today
I'll bait.

Why?
Roe v Wade overturned
I love it when the government tells me what medical procedures I can and cannot have!

The why was more why are you happy at it getting overturned?

Why is abortion ok but euthanasia isn’t?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on July 03, 2022, 02:10:35 pm
I'm in favour of euthanasia. I think it should be legal for someone to have the right to choose to end their life.

Also, overturning Roe Vs Wade won't lower the number of abortions, it'll lower the number of safe abortions.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Dokletian on July 03, 2022, 02:12:53 pm
(https://c.tenor.com/1y8zDc-ll-EAAAAd/3d-saul-saul-goodman.gif)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: LEVIS on July 03, 2022, 02:46:32 pm
I'm in favour of euthanasia. I think it should be legal for someone to have the right to choose to end their life.

Also, overturning Roe Vs Wade won't lower the number of abortions, it'll lower the number of safe abortions.
UNI SPEAKING FAX
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Mexican on July 03, 2022, 10:27:34 pm
I'm in favour of euthanasia. I think it should be legal for someone to have the right to choose to end their life.

Also, overturning Roe Vs Wade won't lower the number of abortions, it'll lower the number of safe abortions.

You’re ignoring the group that would no longer see abortion as an option due to less access.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on July 04, 2022, 06:48:09 am
I'm in favour of euthanasia. I think it should be legal for someone to have the right to choose to end their life.

Also, overturning Roe Vs Wade won't lower the number of abortions, it'll lower the number of safe abortions.

You’re ignoring the group that would no longer see abortion as an option due to less access.
what is your issue with abortion mr opinions
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Mexican on July 04, 2022, 07:07:30 am
I'm in favour of euthanasia. I think it should be legal for someone to have the right to choose to end their life.

Also, overturning Roe Vs Wade won't lower the number of abortions, it'll lower the number of safe abortions.

You’re ignoring the group that would no longer see abortion as an option due to less access.
what is your issue with abortion mr opinions
dishonest question
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on July 05, 2022, 08:43:53 pm
I'm in favour of euthanasia. I think it should be legal for someone to have the right to choose to end their life.

Also, overturning Roe Vs Wade won't lower the number of abortions, it'll lower the number of safe abortions.

You’re ignoring the group that would no longer see abortion as an option due to less access.
what is your issue with abortion mr opinions
dishonest question

For someone who spends a lot of valuable time spent gathering knowledge from the corners of the earth you should be able to divulge your thoughts easily.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on July 05, 2022, 08:49:41 pm
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/465/185/56b.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: MikeyBruh on July 05, 2022, 08:49:53 pm
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/465/185/56b.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Poberta on July 11, 2022, 06:55:26 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3nsrghqcjs revolution
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Phil The Thril on July 11, 2022, 08:23:23 am
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/465/185/56b.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Poberta on July 16, 2022, 10:06:36 am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Czech_presidential_election coming soon
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Mexican on July 18, 2022, 12:13:38 am
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/465/185/56b.jpg)

Fat insecure manchildren unite?

You can always doxx me again if that helps, I could use some more tears during my workout
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on July 18, 2022, 03:19:10 am
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/465/185/56b.jpg)

Fat insecure manchildren unite?

You can always doxx me again if that helps, I could use some more tears during my workout

bros using fse as his pre workout 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣

L + ratio + yb better

"i cOuLd uSe sOmE tEaRs dUrINg mY wOrKOut"

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Mexican on July 18, 2022, 10:43:53 am
*snip*
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Hawkince on July 18, 2022, 09:37:16 pm
*snip*
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on July 18, 2022, 11:09:00 pm
Is this a dox? feels like a dox I dont under what im reading  >:(

Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: fruitocino on July 18, 2022, 11:19:26 pm
NA's smh my head
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Cwater on July 18, 2022, 11:36:40 pm
Mexicunt gets bullied on BCOF --> Gets a wittle angie --> Proceeds to DOX 2 people on a forum for NW, 1 of whom wasn't even involved in bullying him

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/jZzqzeCh.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on July 19, 2022, 07:36:27 am
Low IQ zone
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on July 19, 2022, 12:54:55 pm
Btw I'm not sure if that photo is doxxing someone else or if its a meme template... if its doxxing action will be taken.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Knightmare on July 19, 2022, 01:19:35 pm
Low IQ zone
(https://i.imgur.com/Zuklbot.jpg)
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BlitzkriegMBNW on July 19, 2022, 01:24:08 pm
Me to unicorn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbzPEgROac4
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on July 19, 2022, 02:16:36 pm
Me to unicorn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbzPEgROac4
My dms are open
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on July 19, 2022, 04:27:26 pm
Btw I'm not sure if that photo is doxxing someone else or if its a meme template... if its doxxing action will be taken.
it was an NA politics meme template…. this thread was meant to be the bastion of free speech please stop censoring us
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: sidney crosby on July 19, 2022, 04:29:06 pm
Low IQ zone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Czech_presidential_election coming soon

Me to unicorn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbzPEgROac4
My dms are open

hey guys we discuss american politics here either discuss that or leave
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Scottish Unicorn on July 19, 2022, 04:39:14 pm
Btw I'm not sure if that photo is doxxing someone else or if its a meme template... if its doxxing action will be taken.
it was an NA politics meme template…. this thread was meant to be the bastion of free speech please stop censoring us
Private forums do not need to abide by free speech but I'm sure you already knew that :)

P.s edit your posts together, they look nicer that way
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Kore on July 19, 2022, 05:27:53 pm
Low IQ zone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Czech_presidential_election coming soon

Me to unicorn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbzPEgROac4
My dms are open

hey guys we discuss american politics here either discuss that or leave

no
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Steinmann on July 19, 2022, 05:51:32 pm
Human rights Yes/No?
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: BlitzkriegMBNW on July 19, 2022, 07:43:38 pm
hard NO
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: IcePimpDaddy on July 19, 2022, 07:49:36 pm
Im just trynna talk the economic state of the world with somebodys daughter/son
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Earth Bby on July 20, 2022, 12:37:07 am
Im top in the polls to be UK Prime minister - yes I am indeed the legend Rishi something, yes that's me. I know this will come as a shock to you all but soon I will have the power to nuke any of you that disagree with my opinions that includes you "admins".

My first act as prime minister will be to make the crispy chicken wrap from McDonald's be the wrap of the day for the rest of my term, who eats the fucking BBQ one?

The Welsh language will finally be outlawed and speakers will be targeted.

Finally I will let Scotland break away in 2024 by digging a big trench and using a big stick to push it further north so they are cold all the time and can't grow any food.
Title: Re: The General Political Thread
Post by: Theodin on July 20, 2022, 02:10:31 am
Low IQ zone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Czech_presidential_election coming soon

Me to unicorn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbzPEgROac4
My dms are open

hey guys we discuss american politics here either discuss that or leave
king shit