US Politics thread

[StevenChilton]

One positive thing I am hoping for is an increased Defense budget. But that is just selfish =D

Well, given the Netherlands don't even have tanks there's literally no point in having an army at all. Might as well spend the money on something else.

[Riddlez]

Well, given the Netherlands don't even have tanks there's literally no point in having an army at all. Might as well spend the money on something else.

That's really bullshit. Just because you have no tanks means that your army has no right to excist?
Surely, you can't operate on every spectrum of violence, but only not on the heaviest. The Dutch army has APCs, so the spectrum right below steel-on-steel can be fought in.

And, as recently found out, the Dutch DO want to partake in the complete spectrum, so one German tank Battalion is incorporated in the 42 Mechanised, and one Dutch tank batallion has been formed a few months ago, with the possibility to expand ones there is budget for it.

I get that it isn't much, especially when compared to the U.S., but it's as much as can be expected with a military that has faced consistent budget cuts for the last 30 years and a size of 48.000 servicemen and -women

[CaseliusFIN]

Lack of mechanized formations has largely been due the fact of nations going away from facing conventional threat to unconventional warfare outside the nation's borders. Fairly many nations in Europe lack proper mechanized units. Especially members of NATO can specialize in different assets and on their own nation's special conditions to make their defense most effective.

USA is deploying armored brigade combat team to Europe after some years of absence (2013). And the Dutch are forming combined Armored Division with Germany. Some countries saw the change in geopolitics in time and started to prepare by buying from the countries which were having budget cuts. Now there is just some countries catching up to the change.

[StevenChilton]

Well, given the Netherlands don't even have tanks there's literally no point in having an army at all. Might as well spend the money on something else.

That's really bullshit. Just because you have no tanks means that your army has no right to excist?
Surely, you can't operate on every spectrum of violence, but only not on the heaviest. The Dutch army has APCs, so the spectrum right below steel-on-steel can be fought in.

I'm not saying the Dutch military has no right to exist, I'm saying it's pointless if you don't have tanks. I was taught that without MBTs you can't fight a modern war, and if you can't do that then you might as well do what the Irish and others do, i.e. have a fairly small armed forces mainly for peacekeeping (well, maybe it's best the Dutch military doesn't do that)/dealing with natural disasters at home/etc. What's the point in having 60,000 active personnel and no MBTs. Of all the things to cut that was a strange decision by the Dutch government.

And, as recently found out, the Dutch DO want to partake in the complete spectrum, so one German tank Battalion is incorporated in the 42 Mechanised, and one Dutch tank batallion has been formed a few months ago, with the possibility to expand ones there is budget for it.

Lol, so you borrow off the Germans. Now you can't go to war without the consent of Berlin.

[AP0CALYPS3]

BTW shout out to all the communists on the streets making fools of themselves for all to see and not just on FSE

[BabyJesus]

What is this women's march even about? Like what rights do they want? The right to kill an unborned child?

The election, BLM, abortion, LGBT rights, woman's rights, ect. You seem to forget that the president has said in the past that he would grab women by the pussy...

when you say women's rights, what does that mean? It is such a vague term. What rights do they want that they don't already have?

Also Madonna wants to blow up the White House. You go girl!

They want to have more rights than men, so that they have the same rights. Ya know, if a male and female apply for the same job, the female is chosen. Thats what they want. BECAUSE THERE ARE TO FEW FEMALES IN HIGH RANKING JOBS! ITS THE FAULT OF THE LAW, NOT THE FAULT OF THE WOMEN! Makes sense, right?

When i say women's rights, i basically mean 'protecting and enforcing' women's rights. Again...

You seem to forget that the president has said in the past that he would grab women by the pussy...

Fucking hell, you think a man like that cares about protecting women's rights?

"no one has more respect for women than me."-Donald Trump

[Riddlez]

I'm not saying the Dutch military has no right to exist, I'm saying it's pointless if you don't have tanks. I was taught that without MBTs you can't fight a modern war, and if you can't do that then you might as well do

This is not true. Obviously you can, but as I said, you can't perform operations at the highest spectrum of violence (which in conventional land warfare is steel-on-steel tank fighting). There are many different aspects to modern warfighting than that. For example, fighting in urban(ised) areas. The best way to go about that is with light/mechanised infantry instead of armoured tanks. And since urban warfare is nowadays by far the most common in modern fighting and much less fighting in rural areas, it is not a requirement for an army to have tanks AS LONG as it can make up for that in indirect fire support, such as Howitsers, heavy mortars, CAS, which the Dutch all have to a degree considerable enough to provide for its own troops.

Without tanks you can't fight a modern war? To some degree, yes. But for the Dutch, it is unthinkable to be deployed without allies, most notably Germany primarily and the UK. That doesn't mean the Dutch army means nothing in capability when they don't have tanks.

[Olafson]

Lol, so you borrow off the Germans. Now you can't go to war without the consent of Berlin.

I do not think that the Netherlands, nor Germany are planning on starting/going to a war any time soon. Heck, German laws even forbid that. I am guessing that the Netherlands are following a similiar path as Germany. Which means the Army is primarily there to defend the country, not to go into the offense. Anyone attacking the Dutch has to go through Germany first anyway. And in a case Germany is attacked, I am sure the Dutch will send soldiers to help Germany out.

Besides that there is no use for a large Tank unit in the Netherlands. Both politically and geographically there is no real use for Tanks in the Dutch Army. The Netherlands are not that large and most of the country can be flooded in pretty much no time, rendering any tanks pretty much useless anyway. And then there is what Riddlez just said, urban warfare. In the Netherlands it doesn't take long to get to urban areas, there are smaller and larger towns everywhere.

[StevenChilton]

you can't perform operations at the highest spectrum of violence (which in conventional land warfare is steel-on-steel tank fighting).

In other words you can't fight a modern army. Having an army without MBTs is like having a bicycle without handlebars.

There are many different aspects to modern warfighting than that. For example, fighting in urban(ised) areas. The best way to go about that is with light/mechanised infantry instead of armoured tanks. And since urban warfare is nowadays by far the most common in modern fighting and much less fighting in rural areas, it is not a requirement for an army to have tanks AS LONG as it can make up for that in indirect fire support, such as Howitsers, heavy mortars, CAS, which the Dutch all have to a degree considerable enough to provide for its own troops.

I know of no wars where the fighting took place 100% in urban areas. Tanks can also operate fine in urban areas-it's not their natural setting but they're still very effective, hence why they've been used extensively in urban warfare all the way from Stalingrad to the Battle of Aleppo (2016). Against a conventional enemy in an urban environment commanders won't lead with lighter armoured vehicles (unless they absolutely have to) since they'll be too exposed.

Without tanks you can't fight a modern war? To some degree, yes. But for the Dutch, it is unthinkable to be deployed without allies, most notably Germany primarily and the UK. That doesn't mean the Dutch army means nothing in capability when they don't have tanks.

Can't rely on the Germans-they're very nervous about sending troops abroad and have only done so on two occasions since 1945 (and in very limited numbers).

[Edwin]

F*ck TPP...

The rundown of the meeting today:

Business leaders meeting, 23rd Jan

[close]

Trump stated that he plans on bringing plants and production back to the US. He plans on reducing regulation in terms of construction of plants by around 75% due to it "being impossible to do anything" as it is now, and that he also plans on cutting the current tax of plants and factories (currently around 35-38%) to the best of his ability, making it "practically nothing" if possible. He's going to make it "so easy" for businesses to build in the US, offering complete government support during construction.

In the event that a plant is closed in the US in order for it to move overseas causing great job loss, that product will receive great border tax as a result. I strongly believe all foreign products are going to see a hyped up tax however (Trump used Japan as an example of the current unfair state of trading, citing that he sees Japan bringing cars into the US on "the biggest boats I've ever seen" while it being "practically impossible" for any US factories to do the same).

He's also claimed he's cutting tax for the middle class which is cool I guess.

[Theodin]

I see Duuring has brought out his crystal ball again, please predict moar

[Edwin]

So that $500bil army that's been protecting and funding you for three years suddenly turns on you, wat do?

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1056079/us-coalition-continue-strikes-against-isil-in-syria-iraq?source=GovDelivery

"A variety of fighters, bombers and remotely piloted aircraft engaged in the bombing run, which saw 25 strikes in Syria and six in Iraq. In Syria, two strikes destroyed ISIS units and artillery near the town of Bab. ISIS forces in Raqqa, the terrorist group’s de facto capital, took a heavy beating, as 22 strikes destroyed 12 tactical units, nine fighting positions, two underground improvised explosive bomb factories and an ISIS headquarters. The final strike targeted two ISIS oil wells in Deir ez Zour."

Still believe Obama wasn't holding back?  l   o   l

[Duuring]

I see Duuring has brought out his crystal ball again, please predict moar

Next week's lottery number: 20 58 11 09

The Dutch army actually does have a small tank unit (We literaly have twelve tanks, and not all of them are battle-capable) for training purposses that's integrated in a German armoured batallion. Our mechanized brigade is, in turn, incoorperated within a German armoured division. Germans lack the mobility of our CV90's (Goddamn I love those CV90s) and we lack the firepower of their tanks. We don't have our own tanks because we can rely on our allies as they can rely on us. To think that the Netherlands is going to fight a full conventional war on its own somewhere in the future is completely unrealistic.

That being said, it's not unlikely if we'll see our tank units re-instated. Won't be surprised if they announce Tank Officer School at the KMA before the end of the year, Riddlez. Of course, unless we get a left-wing grand coalition after the election.

Urban warfare without tanks is basically siege warfare as you're incapable of mobile direct-fire artillery (which is the purpose tanks serve in Urban warfare). That, in turn, means you're less able to perform offensive operations and thus less able to surround the enemy. And while tanks are not as effective in downtown-environment with lots of narrow streets and high-rise buildings (Grozny, never forget), they're all the more effective in suburban environments to isolate an enemy.

Tl;dr whatever the situation, having tanks is better then not having tanks.

[The Rebel]

What is this women's march even about? Like what rights do they want? The right to kill an unborned child?

The election, BLM, abortion, LGBT rights, woman's rights, ect. You seem to forget that the president has said in the past that he would grab women by the pussy...

when you say women's rights, what does that mean? It is such a vague term. What rights do they want that they don't already have?

Also Madonna wants to blow up the White House. You go girl!

They want to have more rights than men, so that they have the same rights. Ya know, if a male and female apply for the same job, the female is chosen. Thats what they want. BECAUSE THERE ARE TO FEW FEMALES IN HIGH RANKING JOBS! ITS THE FAULT OF THE LAW, NOT THE FAULT OF THE WOMEN! Makes sense, right?

When i say woman's rights, i basically mean 'protecting and enforcing' women's rights. Again...

Women have full rights in the United States? Trump has not done anything to undermine their rights as a President. If they are so troubled with woman's rights, why don't they just go to the Middle East where women are literally treated as second class citizens and treated poorly by the Muslims.

[Riddlez]

F*ck TPP...

The rundown of the meeting today:

Business leaders meeting, 23rd Jan

[close]

Trump stated that he plans on bringing plants and production back to the US. He plans on reducing regulation in terms of construction of plants by around 75% due to it "being impossible to do anything" as it is now, and that he also plans on cutting the current tax of plants and factories (currently around 35-38%) to the best of his ability, making it "practically nothing" if possible. He's going to make it "so easy" for businesses to build in the US, offering complete government support during construction.

In the event that a plant is closed in the US in order for it to move overseas causing great job loss, that product will receive great border tax as a result. I strongly believe all foreign products are going to see a hyped up tax however (Trump used Japan as an example of the current unfair state of trading, citing that he sees Japan bringing cars into the US on "the biggest boats I've ever seen" while it being "practically impossible" for any US factories to do the same).

He's also claimed he's cutting tax for the middle class which is cool I guess.

And how is he going to pay for it?

That being said, it's not unlikely if we'll see our tank units re-instated. Won't be surprised if they announce Tank Officer School at the KMA before the end of the year, Riddlez. Of course,

You're behind Duuring VTO Heavy Cavalry (Tank manoeuvre school) already excists. They already asked the first two cadets to join last september.