Author Topic: Ranks (1770 +)  (Read 11210 times)

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Offline Earth Bby

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Ranks (1770 +)
« on: August 21, 2015, 06:18:13 am »
UK + USA

Spoiler
Line-
O/R & NCO Ranks
Private
Lance Corporal
Corporal
Sargeant

Officer Ranks
Ensign
 2nd/1st Lieutenant
Captain
Major
Lieutenant Colonel
Colonel

Cavalry-
O/R & NCO Ranks
Trooper
Lance Corporal
Corporal
Sargeant

Officer ranks -
Same as infantry

Artillery-
O/R & NCO Ranks
Gunner
Lance Corporal
Corporal
Sargeant

Officer Ranks
 2nd/1st Lieutenant
Captain
Major
Lieutenant Colonel
Colonel

not sure if you wanted to add-
Sargeant major - Regimental Sargeant major - Color Sargeant major
[close]

13 Colonies Ranks
(sauce)

Early Uniform Ranks
   
[close]

Late Uniform Ranks
[close]



~ Thanks to Brent, polar 8)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 04:47:50 pm by Marks »


Offline B.K.M Coventry

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2015, 07:06:15 am »
Lance Corporal and Corporal should be Bombardier, just saying.

Offline Bravescot

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2015, 07:20:44 am »
Lance Corporal and Corporal should be Bombardier, just saying.
Lance Bombardier and Bombardier mate

Also
Ranking Structure for Great Britain
Rank Structure
Officers
Colonel   Col
Lieutenant Colonel   LtCol
Major   Maj
Captain (Worn on both shoulders)   Capt
Lieutenant (Worn on left shoulder)   Lt
Ensign (Worn on left shoulder)   Ens
NCOs
Serjeant Major   SjtMaj
Colour Serjeant   CSjt
Serjeant   Sjt
Corporal   Cpl
Lance Corproal   LCpl
Enlisted
Private   Pte
[/td][/tr][/table]
[close]
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 07:24:21 am by Bravescot »

Offline Commissar Jdf

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2015, 07:22:35 am »
Just to be a dick, I must remind you that we were the 13 colonies! ROOKIE MISTAKE

Offline PolarBeats

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2015, 08:40:41 am »
13 Colonies Ranks
(sauce)

Early Uniform Ranks
   
[close]

Late Uniform Ranks
[close]

Offline Mr.Mixtape

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2015, 01:45:46 pm »
During the 18th century there hasn't been a ranking system with that many ranks within the hessian military(or any other german really) at that time.
They just start to appear in the german speaking world thanks to Prussia in 1808.
(maybe minus the Electorate of Brunswick-Lüneburg; George III. might have in use there after they got into a personal union)
Ranks make not really sense with the hessians since they actually only had Rankers/ordinary Soldiers,
NCO's (Depending on what regiment we're talking about the Colourbearer could be the NCO or just one of the special rankers that bears some flag.)
and the Officer additionally Musicians.

A more defined rank system (as you've written) wouldn't really make sense for all those Hessians.
The major difference between ranks was mostly the weapon the Soldier had in their hands.
(Ranker a Musket or whatever Weapon fits for his Regt.;NCO mostly Partisans.;Officer mostly with some kind of Sword.)
in the case of the "Hessians" from Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel there was even a difference in the Uniform between NCO and Ranker like cuffs and lapels with silver edges.

If there actually was any official Ranking it woudl have been more like this:

Actual Ranks (if any really):

Officers:
Offizier ;I've sometimes read "Obrist/Oberst" (translates into Colonel and probably meaning the "Regimentschef/Regimentsinhaber" the one person that got appointed Ownership of the Regiment by the Duke/Head of State) - Officer

NCO's:
Unteroffizier - NCO

Enlisted:
Soldat/Musketier/Füsilier/Jäger/Husar/Kanonier etc. - Private/Ranker acutal Name may Depend on what kind of Regt. they're in.

In the case of Hessen-Kassel (that made up most of those "Hessians") Officers had gorgets, NCO's had Partisans and the Rest had ordinary equipment

Yeah there were several NCO's but there was no difference between in their Uniform or any other sort of Equipment.
In that case it is completely unneccesary to have Ranks like "Ensign" and "Unterofficier" because even if they'd have those ranks
they still couldn't tell one NCO from the other apart by looking at their uniform.

Other "Ranks" (not really ranks mostly just counted as a certain duty that has been given to a Soldier):
Colour Bearer - Flaggenträger (Has obviously a flag; Generally looked like any other Ranker; unless he counted as an NCO,
and if he did it also depends if NCO-Uniform of the country he served in that only allowed NCO's in that regiment to bear flags actually differs from the uniform an ordinary ranker used.)

Musician - Musiker (Has obviously some kind of instrument; may differ depending on what instrument they play then It'd be like *Insert German name of a music instrument*-spieler)

My Source: The German wikipedia page about the "Reichsarmee" (Army of the Holy Roman Empire) here;
Some pages about Regiments of Hessen Kassel on Kronoskaf like this;
Knowledge I got from some books that I've read nearly a year ago and forgot the title (very old, was definitley not standart high german);
And Informations from a tour through in the Militärhistorisches Museum Dresden der Bundeswehr (where I was about a month ago.).
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 11:36:53 pm by Mr.Mixtape »

Offline Peter_ORiley

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2015, 03:09:26 pm »


Colour Serjeant   CSjt

Colour Serjeant wasn't a rank in the British army untill 1813... Just sayin'  ;)

EDIT: I just saw the fact that I kept in the wrong picture xD
EDIT 2: Also, there's no need to get angry about it, I literally gave you a wink... I feel like I just remove it and replace it with: ... instead.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 03:17:44 pm by Peter_ORiley »

Offline Bravescot

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2015, 03:12:47 pm »
^ That's SjtMaj chevrons. How about you pick the right image before trying to point out a mistake

Offline MrMan04

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2015, 05:33:36 pm »
This will be very helpful!

Offline AlmightyOdin

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2015, 05:38:23 pm »
What will be very helpful?

Offline Murphy

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2015, 05:38:33 pm »
Those British ranks on the main post are a tad iffy.


Infantry:

Commanding Officers;

Colonel - Full Colonels were Generals who held the rank of 'Colonel' within a regiment
Lieutenant-Colonel - Lieutenant Colonels were regimental commanders and often, if there was a lack of senior officers, commanded brigades
Major - There were often two Major's in each battalion, with each taking command of 5 of the 10 companies in a line regiment. Major's also supported the Lt-Col in his duties, and acted as his subalterns.

Company Officers;

Captain - Captains were company commanders, and handled the day-to-day administration of their company and commanded it in the field.
Lieutenant - The Captain's subaltern, some companies were commanded by lieutenants if there was a lack of available captaincies.
Ensign - Ensigns carried the battalion's colours, and acted as junior officers within companies.

Non-Commissioned Officers;

Serjeant-Major - These were the most senior non-commissioned soldiers in a battalion. The most senior Sjt-Maj would be appointed as Regimental Sjt-Maj's, with the rest being appointed as Company Sjt-Maj's.
(Colour-Serjeant)- (Not introduced until the Napoleonic Wars, but acted as a guard to the colour party)
Serjeant - Senior NCO's within a company (Bar CSM's, not every company had a CSM), acted as chief disciplinarians
Corporal - Corporal's acted as file closers and disciplinarians.

Enlisted Men;

Private - Backbone of the army.
(Recruit) - Not an actual military rank, but many regiments choose to use them as initial ranks for new members.

*If you are gramatically correct, you'll notice I spelt Sergeant as Serjeant. This is because the latter was how the word Sergeant was spelt, not because I'm illiterate.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 05:47:23 pm by Murphy »

Offline Sleepy

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2015, 05:37:40 am »
Those British ranks on the main post are a tad iffy.


Infantry:

Commanding Officers;

Colonel - Full Colonels were Generals who held the rank of 'Colonel' within a regiment
Lieutenant-Colonel - Lieutenant Colonels were regimental commanders and often, if there was a lack of senior officers, commanded brigades
Major - There were often two Major's in each battalion, with each taking command of 5 of the 10 companies in a line regiment. Major's also supported the Lt-Col in his duties, and acted as his subalterns.

Company Officers;

Captain - Captains were company commanders, and handled the day-to-day administration of their company and commanded it in the field.
Lieutenant - The Captain's subaltern, some companies were commanded by lieutenants if there was a lack of available captaincies.
Ensign - Ensigns carried the battalion's colours, and acted as junior officers within companies.

Non-Commissioned Officers;

Serjeant-Major - These were the most senior non-commissioned soldiers in a battalion. The most senior Sjt-Maj would be appointed as Regimental Sjt-Maj's, with the rest being appointed as Company Sjt-Maj's.
(Colour-Serjeant)- (Not introduced until the Napoleonic Wars, but acted as a guard to the colour party)
Serjeant - Senior NCO's within a company (Bar CSM's, not every company had a CSM), acted as chief disciplinarians
Corporal - Corporal's acted as file closers and disciplinarians.

Enlisted Men;

Private - Backbone of the army.
(Recruit) - Not an actual military rank, but many regiments choose to use them as initial ranks for new members.

*If you are gramatically correct, you'll notice I spelt Sergeant as Serjeant. This is because the latter was how the word Sergeant was spelt, not because I'm illiterate.
Thanks :D

Offline LordAdder

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2015, 05:47:23 am »
Not really sure where that source you posted got those 1780 ranks.

The US Didn't use Chevrons until the Twenties when they stopped using Epaulette placing to designate rank.
Even in the quote they supposedly got from General Washington laying down a standard for Uniforms, it still doesn't make any reference to Chevrons being used at this time.

(I'm really sorry, it seems this is getting a lot of Hate, but I guess I can see why. Please keep in mind that I'm doing this to avoid use of inaccurate info.)

Offline Balvald

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2015, 10:02:54 pm »
regimental hessian rankings
Kapitan
Officers
Ober-oficiers
Officers
Ensign
Unterofficier

Geimene the ranks
Korporal/sergants
Gefrieter
Fusilier/grenadier/Jäger
Rekrut

No.
During the 18th century there hasn't been a ranking system with that many ranks within the hessian military(or any other german really) at that time.
They just start to appear in the german speaking world thanks to Prussia around 1808.
(maybe minus the Electorate of Brunswick-Lüneburg; George III. might have used them there after they got into a personal union)
they actually only had just Rankers/ordinary Soldiers,
NCO's (Depending on what regiment we're talking about the Colourbearer could be the NCO or just one of the special rankers that bears some flag.)
and the Officer additionally Musicians.

A more defined rank system (as you've written) wouldn't really make sense for all those Hessians.
The major difference between ranks was mostly the weapon the Soldier had in their hands.
(Ranker got a Musket or whatever Weapon fits for his Regt.;NCO mostly Partisans.;Officer mostly with some kind of Sword.)
in the case of the "Hessians" from Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel there was even a difference in the Uniform between NCO and Ranker like cuffs and lapels with silver edges for example.

If there actually was any official Ranking it would have been more like this:

Actual Ranks (if any really):

Officers:
Offizier ;I've sometimes read "Obrist/Oberst" (translates into Colonel and probably meaning the "Regimentschef/Regimentsinhaber" the one person that got appointed Ownership of the Regiment by the Duke/Head of State) - Officer

NCO's:
Unteroffizier - NCO

Enlisted:
Soldat/Musketier/Füsilier/Jäger/Husar/Kanonier etc. - Private/Ranker acutal Name may Depend on what kind of Regt. they're in.

In the case of Hessen-Kassel (that made up most of those "Hessians") Officers had gorgets, NCO's had Partisans and the Rest had ordinary equipment

Yeah there were several NCO's but there was no difference between NCO's and Rankers with uniforms and equipment (well apart from Partisans.)
In that case it is completely unneccesary to have Ranks like "Ensign" and "Unterofficier" because even if they'd have those ranks
they still couldn't tell one NCO from the other apart by looking at their uniform.

Other "Ranks" (not really ranks; more like just a certain duty that has been given to a Soldier):
Colour Bearer - Flaggenträger (Has obviously a flag; Generally looked like any other Ranker; unless he counted as an NCO,
Unless NCO's have no different Uniform compared to the ones the ordinary Soldier used in their Regt.)

Musician - Musiker (Has obviously some kind of instrument; may differ depending on what instrument they play then It'd be like *Insert German name of a music instrument*-spieler)

My Source: The German wikipedia page about the "Reichsarmee" (Army of the Holy Roman Empire) here;
Some pages about Regiments of Hessen Kassel on Kronoskaf like this;
Knowledge I got from some books that I've read nearly a year ago and forgot the title (very old, was definitley not standart high german);
And Informations from a tour through the Militärhistorisches Museum der Bundeswehr in Dresden (where I was about a month ago.).

EDIT: Removed some mistakes.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 12:15:57 am by Rudolf Rass »


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Offline Mr.Mixtape

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Re: Ranks (1770 +)
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2015, 11:31:17 pm »
regimental hessian rankings
Kapitan
Officers
Ober-oficiers
Officers
Ensign
Unterofficier

Geimene the ranks
Korporal/sergants
Gefrieter
Fusilier/grenadier/Jäger
Rekrut

No.
During the 18th century there hasn't been a ranking system with that many ranks within the hessian military(or any other german really) at that time.
They just start to appear in the german speaking world thanks to Prussia in 1808.
(maybe minus the Electorate of Brunswick-Lüneburg; George III. might have in use there after they got into a personal union)
Ranks make not really sense with the hessians since they actually only had Rankers/ordinary Soldiers,
NCO's (Depending on what regiment we're talking about the Colourbearer could be the NCO or just one of the special rankers that bears some flag.)
and the Officer additionally Musicians.

A more defined rank system (as you've written) wouldn't really make sense for all those Hessians.
The major difference between ranks was mostly the weapon the Soldier had in their hands.
(Ranker a Musket or whatever Weapon fits for his Regt.;NCO mostly Partisans.;Officer mostly with some kind of Sword.)
in the case of the "Hessians" from Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel there was even a difference in the Uniform between NCO and Ranker like cuffs and lapels with silver edges.

If there actually was any official Ranking it woudl have been more like this:

Actual Ranks (if any really):

Officers:
Offizier ;I've sometimes read "Obrist/Oberst" (translates into Colonel and probably meaning the "Regimentschef/Regimentsinhaber" the one person that got appointed Ownership of the Regiment by the Duke/Head of State) - Officer

NCO's:
Unteroffizier - NCO

Enlisted:
Soldat/Musketier/Füsilier/Jäger/Husar/Kanonier etc. - Private/Ranker acutal Name may Depend on what kind of Regt. they're in.

In the case of Hessen-Kassel (that made up most of those "Hessians") Officers had gorgets, NCO's had Partisans and the Rest had ordinary equipment

Yeah there were several NCO's but there was no difference between in their Uniform or any other sort of Equipment.
In that case it is completely unneccesary to have Ranks like "Ensign" and "Unterofficier" because even if they'd have those ranks
they still couldn't tell one NCO from the other apart by looking at their uniform.

Other "Ranks" (not really ranks mostly just counted as a certain duty that has been given to a Soldier):
Colour Bearer - Flaggenträger (Has obviously a flag; Generally looked like any other Ranker; unless he counted as an NCO,
and if he did it also depends if NCO-Uniform of the country he served in that only allowed NCO's in that regiment to bear flags actually differs from the uniform an ordinary ranker used.)

Musician - Musiker (Has obviously some kind of instrument; may differ depending on what instrument they play then It'd be like *Insert German name of a music instrument*-spieler)

My Source: The German wikipedia page about the "Reichsarmee" (Army of the Holy Roman Empire) here;
Some pages about Regiments of Hessen Kassel on Kronoskaf like this;
Knowledge I got from some books that I've read nearly a year ago and forgot the title (very old, was definitley not standart high german);
And Informations from a tour through in the Militärhistorisches Museum Dresden der Bundeswehr (where I was about a month ago.).
thanks  ;)