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The Lounge => Off Topic => Topic started by: Sgt.Winters on August 04, 2019, 06:56:51 pm

Title: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on August 04, 2019, 06:56:51 pm
Preface:

Hello people. Before starting, I would like to say that I am in no way advocating for suicide to be pursued as the only option, nor am I suicidal. The purpose of this writing is to state my beliefs regarding the recent surge of suicides, and to hopefully have them changed (because quite frankly, this is a miserable position to hold). This argument does not apply to those who wish to end their lives on legitimate physical or mental ailments, but rather a general outlook for the Average Joe in modern society. I should also make it clear that my views are heavily influenced by a cynical view of history, as well as humanity, in general (delving into existential philosophy at 15 probably didn't help my view on this matter either :/). This is not a plea for pity, but instead a last ditch effort to escape the clutches of pessimism. The situations here will mostly concern Americans, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is becoming an increasingly global problem.

A Discouraging Future:

To start off, I have recently turned 18 years of age and have begun to start stressing over the bigger things in life, as one normally does. A few major ones are rather typical: what my profession will be, what college to attend, how will I support myself, is getting married and having children even worth it, etc... I've surfed r/teenagers a bit in recent months to see if I could find similar patterns, and this (understandably) seems to be somewhat common in my age group. A good chunk of these issues pertain to teenage angst, exams, and breakups. Adults have told me that this feeling is completely normal (I play TOR with a few dudes, some of whom grew up in the 90's, during which many of them felt hopeless and apathetic as well). However, I can't help but feel as if some of these are unique in the sense that they relate to the anxiety-inducing crises that appear to be threatening our entire way of life. One belief that I have noticed within my social group, and recently myself, is that very few of us hold on to any notion of hope for the next 10-30 years of our lives. This isn't just a personal worry, but also an existential one. In this paper, I would like to address the three big ones that are lurking right above our heads: student debt, climate change, and apathy in general.

Student Debt:

College, whether public or private, certainly doesn't come cheap, and its ugly head has been showing for a bit now. Currently, 44 million citizens of the US owe over 1.5 trillion dollars in student loans. If my math isn't off, that is at least an average of 35,000$ per person. This exceeds any sort of household debt excluding mortgage. These loans range well above 100,000$ for quite a few of these individuals. It could be potentially disastrous for taxpayers, and many of us will spend the rest of our lives paying it off if a solution isn't found. For many, the only way to advance their lives is to take out these loans. They basically have to hope that they will be able to pay it off within a few years times. While this would be the optimal situation, it just doesn't seem realistic considering current circumstances. There is no guarantee that you will even be able to get a job that applies to the degree you worked for, so it could be all for nothing. Personally, I don't think cancelling the debt will fix the problem outright, as it could encourage reckless spending if certain precautions aren't put in place (and America is rather terrible when it comes to long-term thinking). I will readily admit that I currently have a limited understanding of finances , but I'd imagine when considering the fact that most of this nation isn't rich, tens of thousands in debt can be crippling.

Climate Change:

Overwhelming scientific evidence has shown that we are effectively hammering Earth with a strap-on, and it isn't enjoying it in the slightest. I frankly don't buy into the alarmist propaganda that the entire planet will be incinerated into a heap of spherical ash. There is however, no denying that our quality of life is going go downhill, fast. Food shortages, mass immigration, population displacement, extreme weather conditions, you name it. Shit will get bad quick if we don't do something on a large scale. My discontinued use of plastic straws in order to save the turtles won't bring a halt to ocean pollution. My decision to limit myself to two potential children won't drastically effect the carbon footprints that humanity firmly plants. And finally, my next door neighbor that eats a purely vegetarian diet, uses reusable water bottles, and bikes to work every morning isn't going to prevent the sixth mass extinction. It would require a group effort from the world's most powerful nations to see even a small difference. That just doesn't seem to be happening as quick as it needs to. When you consider the fact that our president and at least 1/3 of our adult population doesn't even consider climate change to be real, who wouldn't find it difficult not to feel anything but utter despair? Add in the fact that many of these people control the upper echelons of our democracy, potentially for the next 20 years, and you can see why things will likely remain stagnant. I see disaster as certain at this point. In fact, if there is anything my hours of history reading has taught me, is that we only act at the last possible moment before disaster strikes. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening with climate change, considering it is a slow, gradual build up to an ultimately horrendous outcome that most people don't seem to notice. Blame can primarily be put on this nation's education system, as well the rampant circulation of fake news that plague the citizenry (although this was inevitable given the nature of the internet).

Apathy:

While I hate having to generalize an entire generation of people for their actions, it has become clear that the Baby Boomers have heavily contributed to our current situation. As George Carlin put it, they seemed to have developed a rather enduring life philosophy of "GIMME IT IT'S MINE!", which many of them maintain to this very day. Could this lifestyle been fueled by the possibility that they would all be annihilated by nuclear warfare during their youths.? Possibly, but considering that isn't really a big deal anymore, I can't see why they would keep this view up other than pure selfishness. On top of this, I suspect that have also adopted an "Après nous le déluge" approach to the problems ahead of us. This is very infuriating to me. They are basically saying "fuck you it's your problem now", even though they enabled many of these problems to exist in the first place! Once again, many of these people are in high positions of political office, instead being mostly concerned about how much money they can run off with. To further the problem, Millennials aren't doing much either. They talk a whole lot, especially on this site, of how change can be reached by voting and there is reason to be hopeful for the future. Come election day though, their enthusiasm seems to be near nonexistent at the polling places. Most of them would rather spend time on Twitter rants and Reddit posts complaining about how big of a failure we are while the rest of the world laughs at us. I will confess that I'm guilty of this as well, with the main factor being that we are incapable of dealing with abstract threats until faced directly.

Conclusion:

So now that we are through with all that, how does any of this tie into suicide? The answer to that, at least to me, is depressingly easy to answer. If we will be spending our whole lives paying off absurd amounts of debt with no other solution, attempting to fix a climate crisis that might be screwed anyways, and trying to convince a largely apathetic population that there are serious issues at hand, who wouldn't see just ending it all as a potentially better option? Why would we want to waste most of our time and energy fixing the problems of past generations that could have been (for the most part) avoided in the first place? Would the overwhelming sense of anxiety and dread not lead many of us to just give up, eventually leading to a premature demise? To some extent, this train of thought feels justified, at least when you take into account the rather bleak predictions for the economy and environment in the next half century. Rather than pushing it forward, we will be desperately trying to regain some sense of manageable balance for civilization. I envy the person that can see optimism in this absolute clusterfuck of a situation, because it seems to me that we are just expected to slug on through without complaining.

Now, I'm well aware that the topic of suicide is a controversial one regardless of circumstance, but it has become such a common source of discussion amongst my peers that I'd like to gain another perspective. With personal issues added in, and the general worldview of crushing nihilistic doomsday pessimism, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that my whole life will be rife with more misery than I care to take. I understand that my age plays a factor into how I view the future, but hopefully you will be able to take me somewhat seriously, despite my inexperience. I'm also know that struggle is merely a part of life, but part of me thinks much of what we will face could have been largely avoided if ignorance and greed hadn't festered as much as it did. Then again, that is merely human nature, isn't it?
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Mexican on August 04, 2019, 09:40:02 pm
While the suicide rates among young people have been steadily increasing over the past few years, I don't believe they are as big a problem as it is made out to be. The thing about suicide is that is is very very hard to pull off, especially if you are in your physical prime and are biologically and psychologically selected to stay alive by any means necessary. It takes much more than the problems you have outlined in order to actually go through with an act as permanent as suicide (i.e. loneliness endured over many years, divorce). If you look at suicide statistics, the highest rate appears in middle-aged men living in more rural parts of the U.S. (Montana is the state with the highest rate per ASFP: https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/ ). Here is a quote from one of my favorite authors that I feel accurately describes the rationale behind someone who is truly suicidal:

Spoiler
"The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling."

-David Foster Wallace
[close]

While young people may be depressed at an alarming rate (I am one of these people), I do not believe the situation is hopeless and would argue that this is, as you stated, a normal condition in our stage of life (young adult) where we are not quite emotionally matured to deal with the ugly truths about our situation. You could say this is a "rite of passage" into the stage of adulthood that everyone goes through in their own way.

Student debt: This is a very real and unsustainable problem that the U.S. is currently facing that I don't think a solution will be found for anytime soon. However, thinking about this pragmatically, I don't believe it is enough of a reason to forego higher education, which at this point is necessary to have in order to have a stable income. Furthermore, I can realistically see college debt being forgiven at some point in the future just because there is a very low chance that this debt will be paid off and because of the sheer amount of people it affects. So basically, don't pay those student loans :^)

Climate Change: It is an undeniable fact that climate change exists and that humans are responsible for the rate at which it occurring. I am skeptical however as to the extent that we as humans can actually do to prevent it, or even whether it would produce the catastrophic events like food shortages, mass immigration, population displacement, extreme weather conditions, and the like. I laude anyone who makes personal lifestyle choices to reduce their carbon footprint, but I would I agree with you that such a person ultimately won't be the one to prevent the planet from undergoing dramatic change and it's unrealistic to expect governments to enforce such a lifestyle upon everyone. (Here's an interesting article on a fatalistic view about climate change by Nobel prize laureate Robert Laughlin: https://theamericanscholar.org/what-the-earth-knows/#.XUc6zuhKiUl)

Apathy: There will always be selfish people in the world, but I am not sure how much harm the boomers actually have contributed to current conditions or whether your generalization is accurate. In any case, these people are starting to phase out of the workforce and will eventually begin to die off and probably won't have as big an impact on the future as our generation will.

Anyway, it is my belief that every generation has its problems and crisis, and that ours will be no exception, but the power of human will has shown us time and time again that we get through these things more or less unscathed. The future is uncertain and we haven't been around long enough to feel certain that we will get through it, but I think we will. Then again, I could be completely wrong and this might end up being the point at which we finally destroy ourselves, so might as well just ride it out and enjoy the ride :^).
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on August 04, 2019, 11:03:54 pm
Quote
While the suicide rates among young people have been steadily increasing over the past few years, I don't believe they are as big a problem as it is made out to be. The thing about suicide is that is is very very hard to pull off, especially if you are in your physical prime and are biologically and psychologically selected to stay alive by any means necessary. It takes much more than the problems you have outlined in order to actually go through with an act as permanent as suicide (i.e. loneliness endured over many years, divorce). If you look at suicide statistics, the highest rate appears in middle-aged men living in more rural parts of the U.S. (Montana is the state with the highest rate per ASFP: https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/ ). Here is a quote from one of my favorite authors that I feel accurately describes the rationale behind someone who is truly suicidal:

Spoiler
"The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling."
 

-David Foster Wallace
[close]
I hoped that someone would use Wallace's quote, as I felt as if I could articulate the point a little bit better from another's usage of it. Anyways, let us assume that fall and fire retain their symbolism, but the latter is amplified by a drastic amount with the points I had used above. Would many not have their anxieties about the future (which is considerably bad in our case) eventually fall into the same chasm of agony that Foster references? The fire could be stoked at an accelerated rate, leading said individual to jump far sooner than others would have at other points in time. In my opinion, I see that as exactly what is occurring right now.
 

Quote
While young people may be depressed at an alarming rate (I am one of these people), I do not believe the situation is hopeless and would argue that this is, as you stated, a normal condition in our stage of life (young adult) where we are not quite emotionally matured to deal with the ugly truths about our situation. You could say this is a "rite of passage" into the stage of adulthood that everyone goes through in their own way.
The feeling that teenagers/young adults is completely natural, but as I said above, those pressures are becoming increasingly taxing with each subsequent generation. Nowadays, it is nigh-impossible to get away from what is happening across the world. What could take hours or even days to report now takes mere seconds. Information is constantly being thrown at us at such a rate that we simply can't handle it in most cases. Essentially, it is driving us batshit insane, and it's only getting worse.

Quote
Student debt: This is a very real and unsustainable problem that the U.S. is currently facing that I don't think a solution will be found for anytime soon. However, thinking about this pragmatically, I don't believe it is enough of a reason to forego higher education, which at this point is necessary to have in order to have a stable income. Furthermore, I can realistically see college debt being forgiven at some point in the future just because there is a very low chance that this debt will be paid off and because of the sheer amount of people it affects. So basically, don't pay those student loans :^)
Agreed for the most part, but I don't think the Dem's plan to simply pull the plug on the debt will only solve things in the long term.

Quote
Climate Change: It is an undeniable fact that climate change exists and that humans are responsible for the rate at which it occurring. I am skeptical however as to the extent that we as humans can actually do to prevent it, or even whether it would produce the catastrophic events like food shortages, mass immigration, population displacement, extreme weather conditions, and the like. I laude anyone who makes personal lifestyle choices to reduce their carbon footprint, but I would I agree with you that such a person ultimately won't be the one to prevent the planet from undergoing dramatic change and it's unrealistic to expect governments to enforce such a lifestyle upon everyone. (Here's an interesting article on a fatalistic view about climate change by Nobel prize laureate Robert Laughlin: https://theamericanscholar.org/what-the-earth-knows/#.XUc6zuhKiUl)
Climate change is indeed natural, and we have sped it up considerably to the point that we aren't quite sure how we will adapt. I also believe that we are past the tipping point of saving us from any permanent damage. We are only beginning to feel the effects from CO2 emissions that occurred in the 70s and 80s. It still has thirty years of catching up, and the effects are already being seen. As the caps melt, expect the sea levels to rise and new beachfront property to become available. Let's also not forget that sizable amounts of the world population live on the coast, and once the water starts coming, they are going to start moving further inland (the worst case of this being in Bangladesh). My generation does confuse me at times though. On some days, they are willing to participate so that we may have a preservable planet in the near future, while on other days they simply resort to defeatism and then proceed to cry about their cosmic insignificance.

Quote
Apathy: There will always be selfish people in the world, but I am not sure how much harm the boomers actually have contributed to current conditions or whether your generalization is accurate. In any case, these people are starting to phase out of the workforce and will eventually begin to die off and probably won't have as big an impact on the future as our generation will.
I'll have to write up the issues Boomers have caused at another time, as it's rather complicated. To simplify; I'm rather certain the damage they have done is going to effect us for a long time, and they will probably get shit on in the history books.

Quote
Anyway, it is my belief that every generation has its problems and crisis, and that ours will be no exception, but the power of human will has shown us time and time again that we get through these things more or less unscathed. The future is uncertain and we haven't been around long enough to feel certain that we will get through it, but I think we will. Then again, I could be completely wrong and this might end up being the point at which we finally destroy ourselves, so might as well just ride it out and enjoy the ride :^).
If only enjoying the ride was so simple for me  :(
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Eamon on August 05, 2019, 12:32:11 pm
There is a serious tag but possibly up for debate
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Windflower on August 20, 2019, 12:07:01 am
Spoiler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfstwnWqLHY
[close]
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Fungus on August 20, 2019, 12:14:39 am
When i lag i am kill self
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Theodin on August 20, 2019, 02:58:23 am
I don't disagree with the reasons you've outlined explaining why suicide and hopelessness are on the rise, but I would venture to say that the biggest factors driving the 17-24 demographic into this poor mental state are broken families and the complete destruction of community spirit across the Western world. Children from one-parent households, especially fatherless households, are extremely at risk for future mental illness, and since the rate of stable marriages declines rapidly the lower you go in socioeconomic status, it is not a surprise that a great number of young people are driven to destructive behaviors and eventually suicide.

Moreover, the attitude you cast on Boomers of selfishness is also reflected in mainstream Gen Z culture, as well - apart from lip service to supporting others with mental illness, the "treat yourself" culture/popular attitudes towards consumer behavior reject any real sense of community in favor of individual hedonism. At least Boomers recognize the importance of a community (whether actually religious or not, that cohort is much more likely to engage in a religious community), while millenials and generation z have an extremely negative view of religion. It's no wonder this exact demographic cohort makes up the mass shooters of today - young, hopeless, existentially nihilistic, from a family with divorced or deceased parent(s), and socially neglected and underdeveloped.   
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on August 20, 2019, 04:27:06 am
I don't disagree with the reasons you've outlined explaining why suicide and hopelessness are on the rise, but I would venture to say that the biggest factors driving the 17-24 demographic into this poor mental state are broken families and the complete destruction of community spirit across the Western world. Children from one-parent households, especially fatherless households, are extremely at risk for future mental illness, and since the rate of stable marriages declines rapidly the lower you go in socioeconomic status, it is not a surprise that a great number of young people are driven to destructive behaviors and eventually suicide.

Moreover, the attitude you cast on Boomers of selfishness is also reflected in mainstream Gen Z culture, as well - apart from lip service to supporting others with mental illness, the "treat yourself" culture/popular attitudes towards consumer behavior reject any real sense of community in favor of individual hedonism. At least Boomers recognize the importance of a community (whether actually religious or not, that cohort is much more likely to engage in a religious community), while millenials and generation z have an extremely negative view of religion. It's no wonder this exact demographic cohort makes up the mass shooters of today - young, hopeless, existentially nihilistic, from a family with divorced or deceased parent(s), and socially neglected and underdeveloped.
True, Western Culture is currently undergoing massive shifts that are tugging at every corner with no clear direction. Younger people also tend to be more driven by lust rather than compatibility when considering their intimate relationships, often resulting in failure.

Your writings on the sense of community amongst Boomers is also true, although I disagree on the severity of selfishness. Now, personal selfishness is evident amongst all generations, but it is debatable if their socioeconomic and political motives couldn’t have been any worse than their predecessors, but I digress.

Concerning the lack of community and religion amongst the young generations, I believe that this was inevitable. With the rise of the technology age, people were virtually able to have the entire knowledge of the planet at their fingertips, and could connect with people across it near-instantaneously. For those struggling introverts, this was a complete godsend. Of course, like all things, in heavy doses it can start to become increasingly unhealthy, which we are beginning to see the full effects of now. 

Religion is a tad more complicated. Their numbers have been drifting for quite some time, with 20% of the US already identifying as atheist/agnostic/non-religious. Civilizations have slowly became more interconnected over the past 200 years, now quicker than ever. With a flood of new ideas being traded globally, people questioning their own stances on life were a given, thus triggering a mass crisis of meaning.  I hate to bring him up, but Nietzsche‘s whole “God is dead” fuckery was rather foretelling. The number of adults who say they lack meaning in life are increasing exponentially, and a good chunk of them aren’t going into religion. Also, if you remember Richard Dawkin’s massive Atheist Crusade during the 2000’s, the internet for a few years went from a relatively small shithole to a gigantic one, and hasn’t changed since. The massive influx of skeptical thought and a focus of critical thinking (with the sideffects of pseudo-intellectual theories, condescending attitudes, and the general hivemind) swept America by storm, and forever changed it. These people however turned me off from their ideas awhile ago (because let’s face it, the general internet atheism community isn’t particularly charming).
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Kore on August 20, 2019, 05:20:36 am
tl;dr at this point, but know this - suicide is extremely selfish and pathetic way to go
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Windflower on August 20, 2019, 06:26:59 am
tl;dr at this point, but know this - suicide is extremely selfish and pathetic way to go
humanity is extremely selfish and pathetic too, so it balances out
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Malkolm R. Lind on August 20, 2019, 09:59:19 pm
tl;dr at this point, but know this - suicide is extremely selfish and pathetic way to go
I do not think it's a selfish act to take your own life. I can't bring myself to believe that suicidal people ignore the fact that they're leaving their friends and families behind. It's important to remember what's going on in the mind of a very depressed person. If you put yourself in the situation you might find that the decision to take your own life is far from rational. Atleast when mental illnes like depression is the reason behind the decision.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Piercee on August 20, 2019, 10:01:40 pm
I did an attempt years ago, got saved from it. I consider it a selfish and stupid choice.

Suicide is a permanent solution for a temporary problem.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on August 20, 2019, 10:31:28 pm
tl;dr at this point, but know this - suicide is extremely selfish and pathetic way to go
I do not think it's a selfish act to take your own life. I can't bring myself to believe that suicidal people ignore the fact that they're leaving their friends and families behind. It's important to remember what's going on in the mind of a very depressed person. If you put yourself in the situation you might find that the decision to take your own life is far from rational. Atleast when mental illnes like depression is the reason behind the decision.
I'd say the reasons for the suicide determine whether it is selfish. Say you are a single parent with two children working two jobs in order to provide, and then one day you've decided enough is enough. I would say that is certainly selfish, as you have probably traumatized the children, as well as leaving them completely alone. Now lets look at that poor bastard who just lost his retirement savings, got divorced, and was fired from his job. Is suicide then justifiable from an outsiders perspective? From what I can gather, most suicides are poorly thought out, usually being a rash answer to an overblown problem. This is hardly a Cato the Younger type of sacrifice.

Unless you are able to physically tear someone into your own reality, nobody is ever going to fully understand you except yourself. If a person has already exhausted every option, it is up to them to decide if going on is even worth it.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: JollyCanadian on August 21, 2019, 04:08:35 am
I briefly read everything and won't make a long post.

I don't know if it's just suicide rates are going up OR it's the glamorization of depression.

I have a friend who's depressed and constantly makes jokes about it and generally uses it as an excuse. I've seen classmates when I was in HS using "depression"(whom weren't diagnosed) as an excuse to get out of things.

Constantly on social media there are memes about depression and the few posts that glamorize depression in comics.

There are people who see someone suffer from depression and use suicide as a fix. People will believe it because they wouldn't think or believe that people will be effected by it and that it only causes more pain. I think a lot of people have thought about suicide and I've been there but realize that 1.it only gets worse for those around. 2.You don't "fix" anything in your life.
I cannot speak for those who've suffered from traumas both physical and mental. I can speak as a young adult who stuggles sometimes day to day.

It's an interesting subject and I believe it should be talked about constantly.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Earth Bby on August 21, 2019, 12:34:10 pm
I'm putting suicide rates in young men down to a lack of wonderlust and ambition. The systems were currently raised in are perfected machines designed to create worker bees. The young man biologically is designed to improve and overtake as is all evolution and evolving but we aren't allowed to do so and become frustrated / disillusioned. The majority get distracted and fall into the trap of the machine others are generally left behind and are at their own devices.

But you're only useful while you can work for the machine, as rates of suicide in older men is just as bad (I believe no expert ) once you untangle yourself out of debt, get your kids on their feet & have time to think I guess you revert back.

If you're too busy you don't have time to be depressed, if you've got something constantly calling you it helps. I believe boredom & depression are linked and could be the gateway into a spiral.

 After all our brains are problem solvers. And somewhere along the line the idea of death becomes the correction to your life's issues.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: JollyCanadian on August 21, 2019, 03:27:03 pm
I'm putting suicide rates in young men down to a lack of wonderlust and ambition. The systems were currently raised in are perfected machines designed to create worker bees. The young man biologically is designed to improve and overtake as is all evolution and evolving but we aren't allowed to do so and become frustrated / disillusioned. The majority get distracted and fall into the trap of the machine others are generally left behind and are at their own devices.

But you're only useful while you can work for the machine, as rates of suicide in older men is just as bad (I believe no expert ) once you untangle yourself out of debt, get your kids on their feet & have time to think I guess you revert back.

If you're too busy you don't have time to be depressed, if you've got something constantly calling you it helps. I believe boredom & depression are linked and could be the gateway into a spiral.

 After all our brains are problem solvers. And somewhere along the line the idea of death becomes the correction to your life's issues.
A well put statment.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on August 21, 2019, 05:01:49 pm
I'm putting suicide rates in young men down to a lack of wonderlust and ambition. The systems were currently raised in are perfected machines designed to create worker bees. The young man biologically is designed to improve and overtake as is all evolution and evolving but we aren't allowed to do so and become frustrated / disillusioned. The majority get distracted and fall into the trap of the machine others are generally left behind and are at their own devices.

But you're only useful while you can work for the machine, as rates of suicide in older men is just as bad (I believe no expert ) once you untangle yourself out of debt, get your kids on their feet & have time to think I guess you revert back.

If you're too busy you don't have time to be depressed, if you've got something constantly calling you it helps. I believe boredom & depression are linked and could be the gateway into a spiral.

 After all our brains are problem solvers. And somewhere along the line the idea of death becomes the correction to your life's issues.
To some degree, this makes sense. You let your mind wander while being unproductive and bored can lead to some morbid thoughts, which can often manifest into harm.

Would you say that men are, by the Evolutionary Theory, more driven then women to accomplish goals and whatnot?  Statistics show that 69.67% of US suicides are men, with it slowly narrowing down in the past decade. Going off this, could we formulate some sort of model to figure out why young women are increasingly driven to suicide as well?

An interesting statistic showed that around 15% of these suicides are American Indians and Alaskan Natives. Could there possibly be a correlation between ethnicity and location?
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Earth Bby on August 21, 2019, 10:08:23 pm
I'm putting suicide rates in young men down to a lack of wonderlust and ambition. The systems were currently raised in are perfected machines designed to create worker bees. The young man biologically is designed to improve and overtake as is all evolution and evolving but we aren't allowed to do so and become frustrated / disillusioned. The majority get distracted and fall into the trap of the machine others are generally left behind and are at their own devices.

But you're only useful while you can work for the machine, as rates of suicide in older men is just as bad (I believe no expert ) once you untangle yourself out of debt, get your kids on their feet & have time to think I guess you revert back.

If you're too busy you don't have time to be depressed, if you've got something constantly calling you it helps. I believe boredom & depression are linked and could be the gateway into a spiral.

 After all our brains are problem solvers. And somewhere along the line the idea of death becomes the correction to your life's issues.
To some degree, this makes sense. You let your mind wander while being unproductive and bored can lead to some morbid thoughts, which can often manifest into harm.

Would you say that men are, by the Evolutionary Theory, more driven then women to accomplish goals and whatnot?  Statistics show that 69.67% of US suicides are men, with it slowly narrowing down in the past decade. Going off this, could we formulate some sort of model to figure out why young women are increasingly driven to suicide as well?

An interesting statistic showed that around 15% of these suicides are American Indians and Alaskan Natives. Could there possibly be a correlation between ethnicity and location?


I think we all live very artificial lives (men/women). We are still evolutionarily too immature to keep up with the demands of modern living. We are expected to work 9-5, monday - friday without question, if you trip you will fall, most people live pay check - pay check. Living in a City is expensive but it's where the best jobs are, if you want to get ahead you're either going to lose your head or pick up some unhealthy habits / mental illness.

Men & Women share the fact they are both Human and Humans aren't perfect.

I know little of American Natives & Alaskans.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: MrTiki on August 22, 2019, 01:12:37 am
An interesting statistic showed that around 15% of these suicides are American Indians and Alaskan Natives. Could there possibly be a correlation between ethnicity and location?
The main connection between ethnicity/location and suicide is primarily socioeconomic. That's not just to say absolute wealth but also financial security or lack thereof. With Alaska and extreme rural communities social isolation also comes into it which is a huge risk factor.

Off the top of my head (and excluding factors like age and sex):
The biggest protective factors are a partner, kids or barring that living with others, pets, a stable work environment etc.
Biggest risk factors are recent bereavement, relationship breakdown, loss of job/bankruptcy, access to the means.

Obviously that's kind of a separate topic to the main question being asked, as while social media, shitty world news etc may make people depressed, other than in very fringe cases it doesn't cause suicide.
Rates of suicide among youths are increasing substantially, but the 40-60 ish group still has the highest rate afaik, despite many of these problems described affecting them far less.
I imagine it's social isolation and job insecurity beginning at a much younger age that are having such an impact on younger age groups, but it's hard to measure either objectively.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on August 22, 2019, 02:04:12 am
Quote
The main connection between ethnicity/location and suicide is primarily socioeconomic. That's not just to say absolute wealth but also financial security or lack thereof. With Alaska and extreme rural communities social isolation also comes into it which is a huge risk factor.
Isolation playing a major role makes sense. The states with the highest rates of suicide are Alaska, Montana, Wyoming, and New Mexico, where people are known to be seclusive/poor.

Quote
Off the top of my head (and excluding factors like age and sex):
The biggest protective factors are a partner, kids or barring that living with others, pets, a stable work environment etc.
Biggest risk factors are recent bereavement, relationship breakdown, loss of job/bankruptcy, access to the means.
The protective factors are what a majority of people would consider to be their primary sources for happiness and whatnot. In spite of this, I've heard and read about plenty of men (and rarely women) that offed themselves regardless. I don't have a statistic to show for it, but it is odd. Guess it goes to show that some people can't be helped.

Quote
Obviously that's kind of a separate topic to the main question being asked, as while social media, shitty world news etc may make people depressed, other than in very fringe cases it doesn't cause suicide.
Rates of suicide among youths are increasing substantially, but the 40-60 ish group still has the highest rate afaik, despite many of these problems described affecting them far less.
I imagine it's social isolation and job insecurity beginning at a much younger age that are having such an impact on younger age groups, but it's hard to measure either objectively.
Not sure if this is a US based phenomenon, but talks about suicide inside school classrooms (as well as mine) have become a practical colloquialism. It is integrated heavily into the culture as some sort of way for us to vent at each other in a dark manner. Even if they are depressed, students actively joke about it, and the teachers will almost never take action. I wouldn't know much about the 40-60 group, but an educated guess would point me towards a failed/mediocre career, marriage and children (or lack thereof), physical/mental ailments, and divorce.

I suppose I could provide an anecdote for that age group. About ten years back, a family friend got divorced and lost both his parents within a very short time. He became numb on the inside, and proceeded to withdraw himself from almost all contact for the next five years. Even now when I see him, he rarely cracks a smile or joke, and looks pale as fuck. It's very sad to see.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: MrTiki on August 22, 2019, 06:43:22 pm
It's very much a thing in the UK too, I guess memes are fairly international and a lot of it is rooted in that, jokes about depression etc which border on being not really being jokes, which in itself is half of the joke etc.

But yeah there's a massive gulf between what people often talk about as depression (usually low mood) and actual major depressive episodes, and then again between those and suicidal intentions (not just casual thoughts which many if not most people have). Then there's an even smaller subsection who act on those and smaller again who die from it.

Mental health as a whole is a very interesting field; I couldn't face working in it myself, but I have some friends who do. There's still so much we really don't understand but there's a lot of scope for improvement in treatment which is exciting in it's own right.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: George385 on August 30, 2019, 12:47:52 pm
Here in Australia, it is pretty ingrained in our society, culture and education system that suicide is the cowards way out and is a selfish thing to do. As a result, our suicide rates, particularly among youths, are drastically lower than other countries. When I visited Canada for 3 months in 2017, I learned that suicide is all too common there.

Its up to you whether Australian society's attitude toward suicide is justified by our comparatively low suicide rates, but to the rational person the main objective would obviously be to reduce suicide, and so it is difficult to condemn Australian society on that.

I am 20 years old and throughout my high school career I learned of about 3 or 4 suicides happening to high schoolers in my area (a fairly large area in Australia's largest city by population). I knew one of them decently well in primary school, though he passed away at the age of 19 and after we had finished our grade 12 diplomas.

Due to my work area (high class criminal legal defense), I see suicide quite a lot. Whether its victims of crime not being able to cope with having to be a witness at a trial or people almost certainly facing large criminal penalties, it is an alarming thing in the criminal law world (and presumably so in the civil and family law world too). But, work must go on. Many courts here in Australia are finally precautions beyond simple counselling in an attempt to prevent these suicides, but I fear the trend will be ongoing for quite some time.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: csderp on September 08, 2019, 11:19:50 am
wow, this is just pitiful

the key to happiness as a young person these days is simple: adopt the most important aspects of the greatest generation and baby boomers. for the former, it would be learning through the lessons of hardship and for the latter, looking out for your best interests above all else.

concerning yourself with these three "key issues" youve listed is such a telling example of the underlying desire for instant gratification this generation is obsessed with. take a good look at what youre doing right now and so many on "r/teenagers" apparently do: you're wrapping yourself up in issues that could consume an entire lifetime of study, all at the same time, and all wanting whatever your desired hubristic outcome this instant or else youre going to throw the ultimate twelve gauge temper tantrum. even the topic of teen suicides and the many facets of it all is a topic that will take decades to fully understand; many issues like this can only be understood looking back at everything in the aggregate.

disparage the boomers with the "me, me, me" attitude all you want, but the "now, now, now" attitude we have is infinitely more dangerous.

here's some advice since youre a brand new "adult"
1: if you can not afford something, do not buy it.
save up for the things you want. do not finance anything, not even a car. buy a used car in the 2,000-4,000 range and learn to work on it yourself. this applies to college too. do not go to school unless you can afford it. do not take a loan, do not use credit cards, do not get swallowed in this semitic system of moneylending. the bible has been warning us of this for over 1600 years.
this principle really encompasses most things, because unless you were born to a rich family, chances are you will have no wealth to call your own at the start of your adult life. that means you must start building it up as soon as you can. you must go straight into the workforce which is really the first step to a successful life, not starting with negative tens of thousands of dollars due to student loans.

2: focus on yourself.
it is not selfish. someone that focuses on them self and becomes very successful is now in a position to do a lot more good than some 20-something who is so concerned about the state of the world, so depressed by all the perceived evil, that he eats a 9 millimeter pill. that person is now in a position to do nothing, because he's dead.
there's a second aspect to this as well: do not concern yourself with the fact that there's someone else out there who is making more money than you or had/has an easier/better life than you. this is a sore loser's attitude. you should want to surpass that person, want your kids to have that good upbringing, but realize that you are not entitled to that outcome. be humble for a minute and realize that you are, in fact, not better or more deserving than that better-off person, because if you were, you would have the material evidence to prove it.

3: accept reality.
we, as a generation, have been given a shit hand... but is it really as bad as previous generations? are we the children of kulaks under stalin? are we children growing up in the great depression? are we the children of serfs under the tsar? they had no say in what the last generation did to the state of the world and neither do we, but by any account inherited worlds that were much worse than ours. today, we live in the point of history with the most material wealth and the greatest access to all the world's knowledge yet the least amount of gratitude it seems. if you can truly accept the hard truths that nothing is fair in this world and no one is created equal, you can finally be free from helplessness.



for better or for worse, my credentials on the matter:

i'm 19 with 2 years full-time working experience and, factoring in my benefits, my salary is close to $50,000. i have a higher net worth than both of my parents combined. up until i started handling my parents' finances, I had more cash on hand and more in my IRA than the both of them combined. i've been able to travel to several countries in europe as well as many places around the USA, coast to coast. i still have enough money to indulge in my hobbies as well as give to charity and offer "0% interest loans" to friends and family members. i did not go to college, I left the home and went straight into the workforce at age 17. the only reliance i've had on my parents since then are as follows: they store my rifles, i stay there for the holidays, and we share a phone bill. i will eventually go to college full time, but only after i have saved up a sufficient amount to pay for it, which is likely to be in about 2 years.

does this sound like boomer talk? it is. so what?
do you want to live your own life like i'm doing or the life of every other 18, 19, 20 year old?
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: MrTiki on September 08, 2019, 11:24:24 pm
Life is shit, deal with it

1: Don't be poor
2: Be an asshole (Also poor people deserve to be poor)
3: Life is shit, don't strive for it to be better because other people had/have it worse

My credentials are that I'm very privileged compared to most people my age, or even in general
Thanks for the words of wisdom. Now that you've enlightened them, I'm sure everyone will walk into a 50k job without going to college. Obviously these opportunities are always there and by you typing out that loving message everyone will see the world for the cheery place that it is, full of opportunity and money!

If you're going to be a prick, find a different thread for it.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: csderp on September 08, 2019, 11:44:49 pm
I'm sure everyone will walk into a 50k job without going to college. Obviously these opportunities are always there and by you typing out that loving message everyone will see the world for the cheery place that it is, full of opportunity and money!

you really encompass that sore loser attitude i wrote about. i assume we're in the same age bracket/peer group, so by that, i am your competition. you should want to beat me, either by doing what i've done better or going your own path. from my perspective, with that sorry ass post, you're no competition at all just like 90% of my peers.

perhaps you should've started working on your apprenticeships at 15. you could be an apprentice by 18 -- that's anywhere between 12 and 25 bucks an hour right out of high school depending on your trade -- and then you'd be a journeyman by 24. you should've joined the military, 3 of the 5 branches are well-disguised welfare organizations and take anyone anyway. you should've maybe volunteered to work with the peace corps, go help people overseas and come back wiser and more worldly.

while you may not want to be an electrician, or a military man, or an aid worker for the rest of your life, the job experience, the soft skills you acquire, how your work/professional personality develops and also the connections you make with the people you meet are infinitely more valuable than good grades and a little degree. even STEM degrees are so oversaturated these days that you really have to have something that distinguishes you amongst your peers other than just doing well academically.

i'm not being a prick, i'm saying things mommy and daddy should've taught their kids instead of letting them soak up and absorb whatever poison the public schools put out.

If you're going to be a prick, find a different thread for it.

this hugbox mentality is why kids dont become adults well into their 20s.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: DrunkenSpartan on September 08, 2019, 11:57:05 pm
This is ridiculous. I never met someone who committed suicide over fucking global warming
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: csderp on September 09, 2019, 01:52:38 am
This is ridiculous. I never met someone who committed suicide over fucking global warming
apparently the intellectuals over on r/teenagers are so overwhelmed by the idea
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Marceaux on September 09, 2019, 03:41:24 am
I'm sure everyone will walk into a 50k job without going to college. Obviously these opportunities are always there and by you typing out that loving message everyone will see the world for the cheery place that it is, full of opportunity and money!

you really encompass that sore loser attitude i wrote about. i assume we're in the same age bracket/peer group, so by that, i am your competition. you should want to beat me, either by doing what i've done better or going your own path. from my perspective, with that sorry ass post, you're no competition at all just like 90% of my peers.

perhaps you should've started working on your apprenticeships at 15. you could be an apprentice by 18 -- that's anywhere between 12 and 25 bucks an hour right out of high school depending on your trade -- and then you'd be a journeyman by 24. you should've joined the military, 3 of the 5 branches are well-disguised welfare organizations and take anyone anyway. you should've maybe volunteered to work with the peace corps, go help people overseas and come back wiser and more worldly.

while you may not want to be an electrician, or a military man, or an aid worker for the rest of your life, the job experience, the soft skills you acquire, how your work/professional personality develops and also the connections you make with the people you meet are infinitely more valuable than good grades and a little degree. even STEM degrees are so oversaturated these days that you really have to have something that distinguishes you amongst your peers other than just doing well academically.

i'm not being a prick, i'm saying things mommy and daddy should've taught their kids instead of letting them soak up and absorb whatever poison the public schools put out.

If you're going to be a prick, find a different thread for it.

this hugbox mentality is why kids dont become adults well into their 20s.

You sound like a simple-minded retard. And it is hilarious you attempt to call yourself an adult at 19. You're still a little boy with no more knowledge of the world and life than a 13 year old child. Depression and success by society's standards do not always correlate. Look at Robin Williams and countless other rich and famous people that have committed suicide. Your just a COG in the machine like everyone else so stop acting like you know what you're talking about.

Live your life like your in competition to be the best all the time and see how much true happiness you really find. Materialism is programmed into your brain and you have the audacity to come here and say people are pussys for not striving to be rich and falling into depression. You clearly don't know anything about depression in the first place, teenager.

No one wants to live your b.s life kid so just stfu. Your "credentials" made me cringe harder then I have in quite some time.

You're the type of guy to hit up underage girls and try to flex with your "credentials" because any real adult would literally laugh in your face if you said this shit in person.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 09, 2019, 03:52:10 am
I'm sure everyone will walk into a 50k job without going to college. Obviously these opportunities are always there and by you typing out that loving message everyone will see the world for the cheery place that it is, full of opportunity and money!

you really encompass that sore loser attitude i wrote about. i assume we're in the same age bracket/peer group, so by that, i am your competition. you should want to beat me, either by doing what i've done better or going your own path. from my perspective, with that sorry ass post, you're no competition at all just like 90% of my peers.

perhaps you should've started working on your apprenticeships at 15. you could be an apprentice by 18 -- that's anywhere between 12 and 25 bucks an hour right out of high school depending on your trade -- and then you'd be a journeyman by 24. you should've joined the military, 3 of the 5 branches are well-disguised welfare organizations and take anyone anyway. you should've maybe volunteered to work with the peace corps, go help people overseas and come back wiser and more worldly.

while you may not want to be an electrician, or a military man, or an aid worker for the rest of your life, the job experience, the soft skills you acquire, how your work/professional personality develops and also the connections you make with the people you meet are infinitely more valuable than good grades and a little degree. even STEM degrees are so oversaturated these days that you really have to have something that distinguishes you amongst your peers other than just doing well academically.

i'm not being a prick, i'm saying things mommy and daddy should've taught their kids instead of letting them soak up and absorb whatever poison the public schools put out.

If you're going to be a prick, find a different thread for it.

this hugbox mentality is why kids dont become adults well into their 20s.
This sounds like the typical "pull your bootstraps up" shit I keep hearing.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Ry@n on September 09, 2019, 04:04:29 am
This is ridiculous. I never met someone who committed suicide over fucking global warming
slightly different, but i know people who dont want kids because of the way the earth may become... Environmentalists feel strongly for it and some people (not saying it's right or wrong) don't want to live in a world ruined by certain countries, i wont name them to be polite, but this is what people believe and is a more common thing than u may realise.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: WaterPolo on September 09, 2019, 06:47:12 am
deep
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Maple™ on September 09, 2019, 07:03:30 am
the earth heats up and cools down
we just came out of an ice age
we are now starting to heat up, since we came out of an ice age
Spoiler
(granted i do agree we are heating up faster becuz of carbon emission, I don't think we're in any immediate danger)
[close]

200 years of carbon emissions isn't going to destroy the earth
300 years won't destroy the earth either
400 won't either

only thing that could happen is humanity is destroyed which is an enviable outcome anyways since we are finite creatures.
nothing will change because you cannot change the human condition
we are an instant gratification society that indulges in debauchery and hedonism

we spend all our time pleasuring the body and give none to the soul.
the only change you can hope to make is one within yourself and loved ones (which i think is what ultimately matters)
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Theodin on September 10, 2019, 12:29:23 am
if only tiki wasn't a JDoctor (last time I heard) otherwise Derp has it nailed to the floor.
But also.. another thing that's important to remember about outlook on life is that A) maturity levels/development don't end when you turn 20. Your mid 20's ish is when you physiologically are fully grown up, so rooting yourself in your outlook on life at 18 (or whatever) is practically the same as rooting yourself to your outlook on life when you're 16, and B) between ages 18-24 every year of your life produces more changes in maturity and personality than ages 14-18 combined, so your outlook will shift.

As per Maple and others, killing yourself due to environmental concerns in the Western world is to be simply misguided. Killing yourself due to global climate change is also misguided: the most likely temperature projections fall within the normal range when considering the last 2000 years of historical global climate. Moreover, if environmental issues seriously concern you, regionally focused initiatives like tree planting or conservation/animal rehabilitation have more of a benefit to the environment than your entire life's worth of detrimental effect (unless you own coal plants in South Asia).
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: csderp on September 10, 2019, 01:47:20 am
You sound like a simple-minded retard. And it is hilarious you attempt to call yourself an adult at 19. You're still a little boy with no more knowledge of the world and life than a 13 year old child. Depression and success by society's standards do not always correlate. Look at Robin Williams and countless other rich and famous people that have committed suicide. Your just a COG in the machine like everyone else so stop acting like you know what you're talking about.

no you sound like a big stupid stupid head. money is just a means to an end. having it allows you to care and provide for your family, not having it means going to bed hungry and putting your kids to bed hungry, or in my family's most recent case, my dad going blind. in order for you to achieve success, you have to define it for yourself and it must be a reasonable goal. too many people these days have unrealistic ideas of success, and the failure to meet that self-set expectation leads to depression and suicidal ideation. so many kids grow up convinced by their stupid parents that they can literally do anything, and when they finally realize they can't, it's easy to see why they are crushed. of course this is a normal part of the maturing process, probably because it's hard to sit your kid down and explain to them that there are certain things in this world that they simply can not do, and so many parents just choose not to. unfortunately, today, this is compounded by the fact that kids now not only believe they can do anything and everything, but that they've grown up in a world where they get everything instantly and so want their unrealistic goal to occur right NOW.

to me, success is being able to look back at any point in time and say that I have done something that has improved the quality of life or wellbeing of my family. to do that, i work hard to make money and try my best to save it. success isn't making my family proud; there's no pride in scrubbing shitters and i've scrubbed a lot of them, it's to look out for them.
i believe that this is a reasonable idea of success. i can affect the state of my family's health and quality of life. i can buy them gifts, i can help manage their finances, i can pay for some of their bills. this, in my eyes, is really repaying the ultimate debt to the most important influencers of my life, not to some bank so that i can get a degree with a wishy-washy idea that one day i will have enough money to pay my parents back. to improve your family's well-being is a realistic goal, it's a morally correct goal, and it should be the primary goal shared by everyone.

why is success equivalent to being rich in your head? are you the materialistic one, maybe?

Live your life like your in competition to be the best all the time and see how much true happiness you really find. Materialism is programmed into your brain and you have the audacity to come here and say people are pussys for not striving to be rich and falling into depression. You clearly don't know anything about depression in the first place, teenager.

no i'd say those people are pussies for not looking themselves in the mirror and saying, "wow, i'm a stupid, immature brat that can't face the fact that i'm not actually special and not entitled to all the world's success"

You're the type of guy to hit up underage girls and try to flex with your "credentials" because any real adult would literally laugh in your face if you said this shit in person.

oh wow, mark, something on your mind?
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: csderp on September 10, 2019, 01:59:50 am
This sounds like the typical "pull your bootstraps up" shit I keep hearing.
and it starts with quite literally wearing boots to do the kind of work that no one else is willing to.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Marceaux on September 10, 2019, 02:35:58 am
Spoiler
You sound like a simple-minded retard. And it is hilarious you attempt to call yourself an adult at 19. You're still a little boy with no more knowledge of the world and life than a 13 year old child. Depression and success by society's standards do not always correlate. Look at Robin Williams and countless other rich and famous people that have committed suicide. Your just a COG in the machine like everyone else so stop acting like you know what you're talking about.

no you sound like a big stupid stupid head. money is just a means to an end. having it allows you to care and provide for your family, not having it means going to bed hungry and putting your kids to bed hungry, or in my family's most recent case, my dad going blind. in order for you to achieve success, you have to define it for yourself and it must be a reasonable goal. too many people these days have unrealistic ideas of success, and the failure to meet that self-set expectation leads to depression and suicidal ideation. so many kids grow up convinced by their stupid parents that they can literally do anything, and when they finally realize they can't, it's easy to see why they are crushed. of course this is a normal part of the maturing process, probably because it's hard to sit your kid down and explain to them that there are certain things in this world that they simply can not do, and so many parents just choose not to. unfortunately, today, this is compounded by the fact that kids now not only believe they can do anything and everything, but that they've grown up in a world where they get everything instantly and so want their unrealistic goal to occur right NOW.

to me, success is being able to look back at any point in time and say that I have done something that has improved the quality of life or wellbeing of my family. to do that, i work hard to make money and try my best to save it. success isn't making my family proud; there's no pride in scrubbing shitters and i've scrubbed a lot of them, it's to look out for them.
i believe that this is a reasonable idea of success. i can affect the state of my family's health and quality of life. i can buy them gifts, i can help manage their finances, i can pay for some of their bills. this, in my eyes, is really repaying the ultimate debt to the most important influencers of my life, not to some bank so that i can get a degree with a wishy-washy idea that one day i will have enough money to pay my parents back. to improve your family's well-being is a realistic goal, it's a morally correct goal, and it should be the primary goal shared by everyone.

why is success equivalent to being rich in your head? are you the materialistic one, maybe?

Live your life like your in competition to be the best all the time and see how much true happiness you really find. Materialism is programmed into your brain and you have the audacity to come here and say people are pussys for not striving to be rich and falling into depression. You clearly don't know anything about depression in the first place, teenager.

no i'd say those people are pussies for not looking themselves in the mirror and saying, "wow, i'm a stupid, immature brat that can't face the fact that i'm not actually special and not entitled to all the world's success"

You're the type of guy to hit up underage girls and try to flex with your "credentials" because any real adult would literally laugh in your face if you said this shit in person.

oh wow, mark, something on your mind?
[close]

You are still missing my point, wealth and personal success do not go hand and hand with depression. Which is why all your paragraphs have no purpose here. Sure some people might be depressed because of personal success but many are not. So to keep using it as an argument for why you shouldn't be depressed is just idiotic. Also to say someone can't achieve anything is technically wrong although I get what you're saying. But to be fair technically if youre not retarded or disabled with a lot of luck and work you can achieve almost anything. Now will you? Probably not. But you can't rule it out entirely. And again depression does not always come from lack of achievements or accomplishments, and you seem to not understand that part of it.

Also, I trolled you because saying you're 19 and have worked for 2 years sounds like a joke to any real adult that has been in the workforce for a while. It is not a credential and something you shouldn't brag about. And what Theo said, your perspective will change so much over the next few years you have no idea. I say that because I know when I was 19 compared to now I feel very differently about ALOT of things. As will you. So to take such a strong stance and speak down to others like you're an old wise man is just laughable and quite frankly ignorant. Which im sure in a few years you will understand.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: csderp on September 10, 2019, 01:12:09 pm
I dont think you're a very smart person, man. Failure to meet your own idea of success is what causes depression and eventually suicidal ideation. Stop talking about wealth and equating it to success. Robin Williams hanged himself because he had a debhilitating disease and didnt want to be a burden on his family.

Second, you can not achieve anything no matter how many stars align. Please, do not believe that and do not spread that poison to anyone else. There are dreams and there are goals. Immigrants to the US are barred from ever being president. That is something Pedro can not do.

Lastly, you really, really suck at reading comprehension. I put "for better or worse" because some people will see what i put and be either repulsed or attracted by what I've manage to achieve in a relatively short amount of time right out of high school, especially compared to my peers. It wasn't saying "i have 2 years job experience, period." It wasn't part of a resume. I didnt use "credentials" in the literal sense of the word. It's simply there to provide this thing called "context." Does that make things easier for you, little guy?  I don't know how old you are but if youre above the age of 20, youre very, very sad.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: MrTiki on September 10, 2019, 06:34:01 pm
you really encompass that sore loser attitude i wrote about. i assume we're in the same age bracket/peer group, so by that, i am your competition. you should want to beat me, either by doing what i've done better or going your own path. from my perspective, with that sorry ass post, you're no competition at all just like 90% of my peers.
Cute, but in the nicest possible way, as a doctor I'm not exactly "competition" in the job market sense of the word. I'm sure you'll end up earning far more than me (you probably already do), so well done on that I suppose.
To me what I do is worth far more than my wage slip, but then it has to be or I'd be in a different line of work.
I can't say I'm fond of your high and mighty attitude and the way you judge people in this thread, when really people are just here to talk about a topic which is still far too stigmatised in society. There's a lot that's open to debate, but lower socio-economic status is most certainly a strong risk factor for depression and suicide, whichever country you're looking at. Congrats for having money, you're certainly less at risk than some of the rest of us.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 10, 2019, 07:49:17 pm
I dont think you're a very smart person, man. Failure to meet your own idea of success is what causes depression and eventually suicidal ideation. Stop talking about wealth and equating it to success. Robin Williams hanged himself because he had a debhilitating disease and didnt want to be a burden on his family.

When you say this, is it meant within a certain parameter or relatively speaking? Sylvia Path and Kurt Cobain were both clinically depressed from a young age and ultimately pulled the trigger, yet still managed to be immensely successful and satisfied in their respective fields. It doesn't take a lot for a person to fall into a major depressive episode, no matter the circumstance. One of my first bouts was triggered when I was struggling to cook pancakes, followed by a flood of intrusive thoughts. Nothing horrible had happened that day, but instead a rather macabre feeling triggered an 8 month period of complete and utter apathy.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Marceaux on September 10, 2019, 09:07:13 pm
Spoiler
I dont think you're a very smart person, man. Failure to meet your own idea of success is what causes depression and eventually suicidal ideation. Stop talking about wealth and equating it to success. Robin Williams hanged himself because he had a debhilitating disease and didnt want to be a burden on his family.

Second, you can not achieve anything no matter how many stars align. Please, do not believe that and do not spread that poison to anyone else. There are dreams and there are goals. Immigrants to the US are barred from ever being president. That is something Pedro can not do.

Lastly, you really, really suck at reading comprehension. I put "for better or worse" because some people will see what i put and be either repulsed or attracted by what I've manage to achieve in a relatively short amount of time right out of high school, especially compared to my peers. It wasn't saying "i have 2 years job experience, period." It wasn't part of a resume. I didnt use "credentials" in the literal sense of the word. It's simply there to provide this thing called "context." Does that make things easier for you, little guy?  I don't know how old you are but if youre above the age of 20, youre very, very sad.
[close]

Ok now it is very clear, you actually are fucking retarded. You're just a stupid little bitch talking out of your ass. Good thing your dad is blind now, so he doesn't have to see his nightmare of a son grow up. You disgusting little piece of garbage. You are the scourge of humanity. How many times did your peers beat you up and make fun of you? Enough to create a pussy like you i guess. And no female will ever be with you considering just how tiny your dick is. Matter of fact, speaking of suicide you are a prime candidate so please oblige the world and do it you little bitch.

And thank god you think 90% of your peers aren't like you. Thank fucking god. Now I have some hope for the next few generations.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Knightmare on September 10, 2019, 09:15:52 pm
ebic jok
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Theodin on September 10, 2019, 09:54:52 pm
That’s the Marceaux I remember
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Marceaux on September 10, 2019, 10:30:00 pm
That’s the Marceaux I remember

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/xtqmnfnCkn1TNTtXzQ/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: csderp on September 11, 2019, 01:08:29 am
Spoiler
Ok now it is very clear, you actually are fucking retarded. You're just a stupid little bitch talking out of your ass. Good thing your dad is blind now, so he doesn't have to see his nightmare of a son grow up. You disgusting little piece of garbage. You are the scourge of humanity. How many times did your peers beat you up and make fun of you? Enough to create a pussy like you i guess. And no female will ever be with you considering just how tiny your dick is. Matter of fact, speaking of suicide you are a prime candidate so please oblige the world and do it you little bitch.

And thank god you think 90% of your peers aren't like you. Thank fucking god. Now I have some hope for the next few generations.
[close]

oh wow, mark, something on your mind?
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: ZucchiniMan on September 11, 2019, 01:14:43 am
if money isn't enough consider nofap, latin mass, & cut margarine + aspartame out of your diet.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: csderp on September 13, 2019, 01:56:11 am
zucchini man raises a good point. maybe so many kids wouldnt be depressed if so many kids weren't so fucking FAT. poor diet and lack of exercise is the greatest threat to our generation. if you weigh over 200 (assuming normal height) and can't run at the very least an 8 minute mile, YOU'RE UNHEALTHY. your heart and lungs are the most important muscles in your body.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: MrTiki on September 14, 2019, 08:24:06 pm
your heart and lungs are the most important muscles in your body.
Oh no it's retarded :(
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Earth Bby on September 15, 2019, 01:41:26 pm
zucchini man raises a good point. maybe so many kids wouldnt be depressed if so many kids weren't so fucking FAT. poor diet and lack of exercise is the greatest threat to our generation. if you weigh over 200 (assuming normal height) and can't run at the very least an 8 minute mile, YOU'RE UNHEALTHY. your heart and lungs are the most important muscles in your body.

I think its more the food that effects mental state than being fat. If you eat junk it ruins your mental state, if you eat healthy but too much you can still gain weight.

Home cooked meals & fat = dad fat

Take Aways & fat = sad boy



Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: ~NickCole~ on September 16, 2019, 01:46:55 pm
your heart and lungs are the most important muscles in your body.
Oh no it's retarded :(
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Runepkyz on September 16, 2019, 08:48:15 pm
Didnt read nuffin'. Survival of the fittest baby!
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: DrunkenSpartan on September 19, 2019, 05:57:43 pm
This conversation gets dumber the longer it goes on
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: George385 on September 22, 2019, 11:38:26 am
imagine being a kid with a high school diploma and debating against a seasoned medical professional and adamantly believing you know more about medical issues

there's a reason we in the legal profession use doctors as expert witnesses on medical issues and not 19 year old factory workers lmao
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Marceaux on September 22, 2019, 07:07:30 pm
imagine being a kid with a high school diploma and debating against a seasoned medical professional and adamantly believing you know more about medical issues

there's a reason we in the legal profession use doctors as expert witnesses on medical issues and not 19 year old factory workers lmao
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: csderp on September 26, 2019, 01:01:00 am
imagine thinking it's ok to be fat
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Marceaux on September 26, 2019, 01:18:41 am
imagine thinking it's ok to be fat

Imagine thinking its ok to be ugly. You won't even need a costume this Halloween. You're already a scary looking CLOWN.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 26, 2019, 01:44:10 am
imagine thinking it's ok to be fat
While I would agree that being overweight generally can cause issues is there really anything inherently wrong with it? I've known plenty of people who were less-than-fit, but were entirely ok with that and it had little impact on their general happiness.  Most of them were perfectly fine with the risks associated with their lifestyle, and a few are already dead from it, but I find it hard to argue that they didn't enjoy their lives.

With regards on the medical side of things, I'd say being morbidly obese is where it starts to get serious. Other than that, I've seen plenty of fat people live a long time with little issues (but not as much as fit people). What does confuse me, is why people are more concerned about the cancer risks that come with it, rather than CHF. According to the CDC, at least 90% of CHF cases are preventable through excercise and treatment, while cancer (mathematically speaking) is unpreventable a majority of the time. I'm not an expert on this, but from when I've spoken to oncologists, cancers are naturally inevitable simply by being alive.

To be clear, I'm not trying to downplay cancer, as I've seen it plenty of times in person and it is god fucking awful, but I don't think enough funding and attention is going into other areas.

Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Maple™ on September 26, 2019, 01:22:05 pm
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFBOVDm3RR7G66Qi1eHDMjkCvZtrbPdA6ZLzf3sQmku6UkkiSijA)
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: |Viper| on September 27, 2019, 08:05:48 pm
If you care too much about what other people are thinking you’ll get no where in life except getting deeper into your depression.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 27, 2019, 08:36:02 pm
If you care too much about what other people are thinking you’ll get no where in life except getting deeper into your depression.
I don't know if this has much to do with what I wrote
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: |Viper| on September 27, 2019, 08:53:36 pm
If you care too much about what other people are thinking you’ll get no where in life except getting deeper into your depression.
I don't know if this has much to do with what I wrote
Wasn’t towards you
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 27, 2019, 09:40:16 pm
If you care too much about what other people are thinking you’ll get no where in life except getting deeper into your depression.
I don't know if this has much to do with what I wrote
Wasn’t towards you
I made the thread while factoring in socioeconomic factors instead of more personal ones.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Marceaux on September 27, 2019, 09:46:40 pm
And I think thats part of the issue. A lot of depression comes from personal reasoning and deep inner feelings that sometimes don't have a real good explanation behind them. And I feel that real depression usually isn't related to socioeconomic factors. More so a chemical imbalance in the brain causing you to be irrationally depressed.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on September 27, 2019, 09:57:09 pm
And I think thats part of the issue. A lot of depression comes from personal reasoning and deep inner feelings that sometimes don't have a real good explanation behind them. And I feel that real depression usually isn't related to socioeconomic factors. More so a chemical imbalance in the brain causing you to be irrationally depressed.
Trust me I'm well aware of this, but rates are steadily increasing in first world countries despite the fact that no era has ever been easier to live in. I somewhat believe that a part of the rise in depression numbers is related to the slow destigmatization of it. This has now resulted in people being more open about their problems. The suicide rate (which is steadily rising) on the other hand, is something that I'm having a difficult time narrowing down.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Marceaux on September 27, 2019, 10:05:25 pm
I think it could have something to do with what Marks said earlier. The world just expects you to grow up, get a job and acquire wealth and reproduce. Then die. It is a pretty bleak idea of existence imo. Telling children that the only purpose of life is to get wealthy and have a family? For some people that simply isn't enough. And for many having a nice car and home and money in the bank, a family and material items. Doesn't actually make you feel fulfilled. There needs to be more, although I don't think anyone knows what it really is. And when you don't know what you need the depression can set in. Feeling like there is a hole inside you that you simply cannot fill and don't know what would even begin to fill it despite all your efforts.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Hawkince on October 02, 2019, 08:53:45 am
don't kys thanks
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Theodin on December 05, 2019, 12:46:09 am
@Winters https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/12/04/why-climate-alarmism-hurts-us-all/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Existential anxiety about climate change is unscientific.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on December 05, 2019, 03:56:11 pm
@Winters https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/12/04/why-climate-alarmism-hurts-us-all/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Existential anxiety about climate change is unscientific.
I agree that it's unscientific (to an extent), but that doesn't really matter at this point. What does matter is that it's petrified millions into defeatism or spiraled their mental health down the drain. Considering we have hundreds of sources spewing different opnions on the data, who are we supposed to believe here? Moreover, if this turns out to be overblown, then I figure this will be just the first in many cases of scientists bullshitting their way to the top.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: No0B on December 20, 2019, 05:29:33 am
My thing on climate change is that I noticed it so has my family, I'm from Missouri, the Winters here have been changing, according to my Dad snow used to stay on the ground for most of the winter in our part of Missouri, for example we had a snow storm the other day 4-5 inches of snow and literally 3 days later it's almost all melted and grass is mostly exposed because it went from low 20's to mid 50's in 2 days. Some people say this benfits the farmers because of longer growing seasons but Winter comes at the same time every year it just isn't constantly 20's 30's, it's like half the week 20-30 degrees then it becomes like 50 for the next half and they randomly swap, it used to be rare in Missouri for winter to go over 50 degrees in my area.This year it happened almost every week.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Sgt.Winters on December 20, 2019, 05:41:43 pm
My thing on climate change is that I noticed it so has my family, I'm from Missouri, the Winters here have been changing, according to my Dad snow used to stay on the ground for most of the winter in our part of Missouri, for example we had a snow storm the other day 4-5 inches of snow and literally 3 days later it's almost all melted and grass is mostly exposed because it went from low 20's to mid 50's in 2 days. Some people say this benfits the farmers because of longer growing seasons but Winter comes at the same time every year it just isn't constantly 20's 30's, it's like half the week 20-30 degrees then it becomes like 50 for the next half and they randomly swap, it used to be rare in Missouri for winter to go over 50 degrees in my area.This year it happened almost every week.
Nothing you can do it about it friend. Every attempt to curb the effects are negligible at this point. It's going to be like this for the rest of our lives.

My advice would be to just get as much as you can out of it now. We are fragile creatures that turn into savage monsters when desperate. Blame will be tossed around like a hot iron and nothing will be done. This isn't an isolated event that only effects certain people, the problems will most likely go global. Purely from experience I can tell you this; human beings are NOT good or rational when left unsatisfied. That is our greatest biological failing and perhaps the inevitable fate of all intelligent life, to self destruct in the face of void.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Theodin on December 20, 2019, 05:46:53 pm
My thing on climate change is that I noticed it so has my family, I'm from Missouri, the Winters here have been changing, according to my Dad snow used to stay on the ground for most of the winter in our part of Missouri, for example we had a snow storm the other day 4-5 inches of snow and literally 3 days later it's almost all melted and grass is mostly exposed because it went from low 20's to mid 50's in 2 days. Some people say this benfits the farmers because of longer growing seasons but Winter comes at the same time every year it just isn't constantly 20's 30's, it's like half the week 20-30 degrees then it becomes like 50 for the next half and they randomly swap, it used to be rare in Missouri for winter to go over 50 degrees in my area.This year it happened almost every week.
It's hard to find exhaustive climate records for your state but I found this https://www.weather.gov/lsx/monthTab - from what you said about over 50's, it seems you live near Jefferson City? Excluding the 2014-15 El Nino the recorded high vs normal high is
2019 +3
2018 +2
2017 +1
2016 -2
14,15 excluded for el nino years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9316_El_Ni%C3%B1o_event
2013 +1
2012 +6
2011 +6
2010 -4
2009 -2
2008 -1
2007 0
2006 +6
which totals +16 over a 12 year span - an increase of about 1.3 degrees F per year. So yes! You're having warmer winters these days, by about 1.3 degrees - a far cry from the catastrophic temperatures those on the alarmist end of the climate issue would like you to believe.

My thing on climate change is that I noticed it so has my family, I'm from Missouri, the Winters here have been changing, according to my Dad snow used to stay on the ground for most of the winter in our part of Missouri, for example we had a snow storm the other day 4-5 inches of snow and literally 3 days later it's almost all melted and grass is mostly exposed because it went from low 20's to mid 50's in 2 days. Some people say this benfits the farmers because of longer growing seasons but Winter comes at the same time every year it just isn't constantly 20's 30's, it's like half the week 20-30 degrees then it becomes like 50 for the next half and they randomly swap, it used to be rare in Missouri for winter to go over 50 degrees in my area.This year it happened almost every week.
Nothing you can do it about it friend. Every attempt to curb the effects are negligible at this point. It's going to be like this for the rest of our lives.

My advice would be to just get as much as you can out of it now. We are fragile creatures that turn into savage monsters when desperate. Blame will be tossed around like a hot iron and nothing will be done. This isn't an isolated event that only effects certain people, the problems will most likely go global. Purely from experience I can tell you this; human beings are NOT good or rational when left unsatisfied. That is our greatest biological failing and perhaps the inevitable fate of all intelligent life, to self destruct in the face of void.
This is irresponsible for you to post, Winters - you know as well as anyone else that catastrophic predictions about climate are unsupported by scientific bodies like the IPCC and the EPA. Helpful link again! https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/12/04/why-climate-alarmism-hurts-us-all/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Hawkince on December 21, 2019, 09:04:29 am
My thing on climate change is that I noticed it so has my family, I'm from Missouri, the Winters here have been changing, according to my Dad snow used to stay on the ground for most of the winter in our part of Missouri, for example we had a snow storm the other day 4-5 inches of snow and literally 3 days later it's almost all melted and grass is mostly exposed because it went from low 20's to mid 50's in 2 days. Some people say this benfits the farmers because of longer growing seasons but Winter comes at the same time every year it just isn't constantly 20's 30's, it's like half the week 20-30 degrees then it becomes like 50 for the next half and they randomly swap, it used to be rare in Missouri for winter to go over 50 degrees in my area.This year it happened almost every week.
It's hard to find exhaustive climate records for your state but I found this https://www.weather.gov/lsx/monthTab - from what you said about over 50's, it seems you live near Jefferson City? Excluding the 2014-15 El Nino the recorded high vs normal high is
2019 +3
2018 +2
2017 +1
2016 -2
14,15 excluded for el nino years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9316_El_Ni%C3%B1o_event
2013 +1
2012 +6
2011 +6
2010 -4
2009 -2
2008 -1
2007 0
2006 +6
which totals +16 over a 12 year span - an increase of about 1.3 degrees F per year. So yes! You're having warmer winters these days, by about 1.3 degrees - a far cry from the catastrophic temperatures those on the alarmist end of the climate issue would like you to believe.

My thing on climate change is that I noticed it so has my family, I'm from Missouri, the Winters here have been changing, according to my Dad snow used to stay on the ground for most of the winter in our part of Missouri, for example we had a snow storm the other day 4-5 inches of snow and literally 3 days later it's almost all melted and grass is mostly exposed because it went from low 20's to mid 50's in 2 days. Some people say this benfits the farmers because of longer growing seasons but Winter comes at the same time every year it just isn't constantly 20's 30's, it's like half the week 20-30 degrees then it becomes like 50 for the next half and they randomly swap, it used to be rare in Missouri for winter to go over 50 degrees in my area.This year it happened almost every week.
Nothing you can do it about it friend. Every attempt to curb the effects are negligible at this point. It's going to be like this for the rest of our lives.

My advice would be to just get as much as you can out of it now. We are fragile creatures that turn into savage monsters when desperate. Blame will be tossed around like a hot iron and nothing will be done. This isn't an isolated event that only effects certain people, the problems will most likely go global. Purely from experience I can tell you this; human beings are NOT good or rational when left unsatisfied. That is our greatest biological failing and perhaps the inevitable fate of all intelligent life, to self destruct in the face of void.
This is irresponsible for you to post, Winters - you know as well as anyone else that catastrophic predictions about climate are unsupported by scientific bodies like the IPCC and the EPA. Helpful link again! https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/12/04/why-climate-alarmism-hurts-us-all/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

While on the topic of climate change 1.3 degrees is a pretty big deal and thinking otherwise is frankly dumb.

This is irresponsible for you to post, Theodin - you (should) know as well as anyone else that catastrophic predictions are supported by scientific bodies like the IPCC and the EPA. I have included many helpful links for you to look over!

According to the IPCC we can observe many already felt impacts by climate change:

Spoiler
Human-induced global warming has already caused multiple observed changes in the climate system (high confidence). Changes include increases in both land and ocean temperatures, as well as more frequent heatwaves in most land regions (high confidence). There is also (high confidence) global warming has resulted in an increase in the frequency and duration of marine heatwaves. Further, there is substantial evidence that human-induced global warming has led to an increase in the frequency, intensity and/or amount of heavy precipitation events at the global scale (medium confidence), as well as an increased risk of drought in the Mediterranean region (medium confidence). {3.3.1, 3.3.2, 3.3.3, 3.3.4, Box 3.4}
[close]

The IPCC believes that limiting climate change to between 1.5C and 2C is crucial to preventing many issues (water availability, extreme drought, protecting ocean ecosystems, heat related mortality, ozone related mortality, general human health and more).
Their summary can be found here readily available on their website (https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/) and to suggest that they do not support "catastrophic predictions" about climate change is misleading.

As for the EPA they are a federal agency and their stance has been altered after Donald Trump took office. TIME magazine has an article on the changes on the EPA's website went through after Trump was elected (https://time.com/5075265/epa-website-climate-change-censorship/).

However despite this, the EPA's website still includes many resources that imply that climate change will have disastrous effects if left unchecked.

Implications of Climate Change (EPA):
https://www.epa.gov/arc-x/implications-climate-change

Human Health and Climate Change (EPA):
https://www.epa.gov/climate-research/human-health-and-climate-change-research

2016 report from US Global Change Research Program (Joint Effort):
https://health2016.globalchange.gov/

NASA also states that "So, the Earth's average temperature has increased about 2 degrees Fahrenheit during the 20th century. What's the big deal?
Two degrees may sound like a small amount, but it's an unusual event in our planet's recent history. Earth's climate record, preserved in tree rings, ice cores, and coral reefs, shows that the global average temperature is stable over long periods of time. Furthermore, small changes in temperature correspond to enormous changes in the environment.

For example, at the end of the last ice age, when the Northeast United States was covered by more than 3,000 feet of ice, average temperatures were only 5 to 9 degrees cooler than today."

https://climate.nasa.gov/effects/

The 3 Google definitions of "Catastrophic" are as follows:

"involving or causing sudden great damage or suffering."

"extremely unfortunate or unsuccessful."

"involving a sudden and large-scale alteration in state."

Every single one of these is fulfilled by the effects currently felt and possible implications from the future if climate change is to continute at it's current pace.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Theodin on December 22, 2019, 07:33:07 pm
Spoiler
Quote
While on the topic of climate change 1.3 degrees is a pretty big deal and thinking otherwise is frankly dumb.
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This largely depends on who you ask. The amount of degrees of change that the climate is sensitive too is measured with a statistic called the Equilibrium Climate Sensitivity. The lower the sensitivity measure, the lower impact AGW will have on the climate as a whole. The IPCC 5th AR has it at between 1.5c and 4.5c - if it's at the lower end, then nothing is really wrong, and if it is at the higher end, then we have problems. Recent analysis of the ECS has it at the low end - https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/10.1175/JCLI-D-17-0667.1?utm_source=CCNet+Newsletter&utm_campaign=a24cafd790-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_04_24&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fe4b2f45ef-a24cafd790-20156641& - and over the years it's been within that range: http://www.nationalpost.com/includes/blogs/2018/06_june/fp0619/index.html
This statistic is important because the ECS informs on the correct way in which to model the effects of climate change, and if the ECS is this low, the models that spell disaster are running too hot - a trend that has already been noticed (https://judithcurry.com/2017/09/26/are-climate-models-overstating-warming/). Climate modelling is a very complicated science, and there are many possible reasons for the discrepancy between observations and models!

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This is irresponsible for you to post, Theodin - you (should) know as well as anyone else that catastrophic predictions are supported by scientific bodies like the IPCC and the EPA. I have included many helpful links for you to look over! According to the IPCC we can observe many already felt impacts by climate change:
The IPCC believes that limiting climate change to between 1.5C and 2C is crucial to preventing many issues (water availability, extreme drought, protecting ocean ecosystems, heat related mortality, ozone related mortality, general human health and more).
Their summary can be found here readily available on their website (https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/) and to suggest that they do not support "catastrophic predictions" about climate change is misleading
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This is the problem with using introductions - they can say whatever they want to say! From page 214 (56 in the pdf) of the IPCC's Observations of Atmosphere and Surface (https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2017/09/WG1AR5_Chapter02_FINAL.pdf):  "AR4 WGI Chapter 3 (Trenberth et al., 2007) did not assess changes in floods but AR4 WGII concluded that there was not a general global trend in the incidence of floods (Kundzewicz et al., 2007). SREX went further to suggest that there was low agreement and thus low confidence at the global scale regarding changes in the magnitude or frequency of floods or even the sign of changes."

The next section about droughts is fascinating, discussing different ways to analyze the subject: "In summary, the current assessment concludes that there is not enough
evidence at present to suggest more than low confidence in a global-scale observed trend in drought or dryness (lack of rainfall) since the middle of the 20th century, owing to lack of direct observations, geographical inconsistencies in the trends, and dependencies of inferred trends on the index choice. Based on updated studies, AR4 conclusions regarding global increasing trends in drought since the 1970s were probably overstated."

On the next page, there's weather events: "In summary, there is low confidence in observed trends in small-scale severe weather phenomena such as hail and thunderstorms because of historical data inhomogeneities and inadequacies in monitoring systems."

Tropical storms: "In summary, this assessment does not revise the SREX conclusion of low confidence that any reported long-term (centennial) increases in tropical cyclone activity are robust, after accounting for past changes in observing capabilities. More recent assessments indicate that it is unlikely that annual numbers of tropical storms, hurricanes and major hurricanes counts have increased over the past 100 years in the North Atlantic basin."

I trust what the scientists tell me!

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As for the EPA they are a federal agency and their stance has been altered after Donald Trump took office. TIME magazine has an article on the changes on the EPA's website went through after Trump was elected (https://time.com/5075265/epa-website-climate-change-censorship/).

However despite this, the EPA's website still includes many resources that imply that climate change will have disastrous effects if left unchecked.

Implications of Climate Change (EPA):
https://www.epa.gov/arc-x/implications-climate-change

Human Health and Climate Change (EPA):
https://www.epa.gov/climate-research/human-health-and-climate-change-research

2016 report from US Global Change Research Program (Joint Effort):
https://health2016.globalchange.gov/
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The EPA, like the Canadian Ministry of the Environment, have nicely written summaries and yet produce these wonderful, easy to use reports that no one reads on things like air quality: https://gispub.epa.gov/air/trendsreport/2016/ pollutants and emissions have been falling for years all across your country, and overall health and prosperity has increased during that time. Seems like you guys are doing a great job! (Canadian weather data - bit harder to use this site tho https://www.weatherstats.ca/)

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NASA also states that "So, the Earth's average temperature has increased about 2 degrees Fahrenheit during the 20th century. What's the big deal?
Two degrees may sound like a small amount, but it's an unusual event in our planet's recent history. Earth's climate record, preserved in tree rings, ice cores, and coral reefs, shows that the global average temperature is stable over long periods of time. Furthermore, small changes in temperature correspond to enormous changes in the environment.
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This sentence is seemingly filler, but it demonstrates the biggest question in climate science - did Mann et al in 2009 understate the effects of the Medieval Warming Period? From the first IPCC assessment report in 1990 https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/03/ipcc_far_wg_I_full_report.pdf (page 250 in the pdf) the MWP is warmer than warming trends currently - which would make NASA incorrect. Mann's analysis using one specific tree ring data set flattened the MWP and pushed current warming up significantly. There are plenty of questions as to whether Mann was correct or not - the man loves to sue other scientists for defamation for criticizing his work. I'm of the opinion that his graph is incorrect, but a more fair conclusion to draw from this summary of the whole shenanigans (https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/04/30/20-years-later-the-hockey-stick-graph-behind-waves-of-climate-alarmism-is-still-in-dispute/) is that historical pictures of climate data are not 100% reliable, and drawing conclusions of absolute certainty from them should be met with healthy skepticism.

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The 3 Google definitions of "Catastrophic" are as follows:

"involving or causing sudden great damage or suffering."

"extremely unfortunate or unsuccessful."

"involving a sudden and large-scale alteration in state."

Every single one of these is fulfilled by the effects currently felt and possible implications from the future if climate change is to continute at it's current pace.
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If the very worst case scenarios are correct, and if the IPCC's analysis about weather events etc are indeed understated, then we'd have a catastrophe with a definition that you so kindly provided. If all this was the case, however, then it is already too late, and you shouldn't worry about trying to abate it. But like I keep telling Winters, the catastrophic scenarios are at this moment very unlikely, and the actual consequences of possible AGW are still quite unknown - https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/12/04/why-climate-alarmism-hurts-us-all/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
The more pressing concerns for the human race concern poverty, war, and threats to democracy - which don't require complex physics debates to solve!
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Skaen on January 02, 2020, 09:26:32 am
Here in Belgium there are a lot of incidents with attempts to do suicide. A lot of younger people too. Reason being here is that schools in Belgium do very little to actually help the victims who are being bullied at school. I think if schools actually teached us in a good way on how to live with each other in peace as well as how to manage money in a smart way, that it would be a good start here. I have a friend who is depressed and that’s because of the reason I stated earlier in my post. Also like stated earlier on this page, employers just ask for more and more these days. Good isn’t good enough anymore. If you did not study well and you don’t have your A2 Diploma you’re in pretty much deep shit. Also, if you want to rent an appartment here, you have to pay 700 euro’s each month I thought it was (water, electricity excluded). In 2019 the rates of suicide were very big, at least as far as I know.

And I doubt 2020 will bring any positive changes to this. It will get worse and worse I am afraid.
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Eamon on January 03, 2020, 08:27:02 am
Here in Belgium there are a lot of incidents with attempts to do suicide. A lot of younger people too. Reason being here is that schools in Belgium do very little to actually help the victims who are being bullied at school. I think if schools actually teached us in a good way on how to live with each other in peace as well as how to manage money in a smart way, that it would be a good start here. I have a friend who is depressed and that’s because of the reason I stated earlier in my post. Also like stated earlier on this page, employers just ask for more and more these days. Good isn’t good enough anymore. If you did not study well and you don’t have your A2 Diploma you’re in pretty much deep shit. Also, if you want to rent an appartment here, you have to pay 700 euro’s each month I thought it was (water, electricity excluded). In 2019 the rates of suicide were very big, at least as far as I know.

And I doubt 2020 will bring any positive changes to this. It will get worse and worse I am afraid.

I wish my rent was 700 euro  >:(
Title: Re: [SERIOUS] Young suicide rates are worrisome, yet somewhat understandable.
Post by: Hess on January 04, 2020, 09:29:29 pm
I think these rates have gone up due to modern technology. People and society are beginning to accept that these issues of depression and suicide are real things because technology has allowed research to occur. There are more resources for these issues then there ever has been. Mental health is becoming accepted within society instead of just throwing people into an asylum or home. Another theory I have is that our society nowadays is faster then it ever has been. People are constantly on the move which may cause some stress. I would say that even though technology has furthered for the better good, a new slew of problems and issues arise. Problems that people may have back then no longer exist but problems that people back then never experienced now exist for our present-day lives. College debt and college loans in America are a prime example. College was mainly for people that had money and some kind of elite status. The majority of people could not afford college. Nowadays the average joe who comes out of high school is now trying to obtain a professional degree. Instead of "Where are you working after high school?", its now "Where are you attending college?" My theory about why college is becoming a norm is because technology has furthered which can be summed down to specialization. No longer are companies looking for assembly line people, but rather specialists within a specialty. You are now sitting in an office doing paperwork and complex problems instead of working in a factory assembly line. Once again as technology grows, things become more complex and specialized. To sum this up, I think that the main reason for higher suicide rates among young people can be summed to the progression of technology and new social standards. Change is good but brings new issues to the table.