The General Political Thread

[Toffee]

Nice conjecture everyone, once again my expectations have been met in full.

If you are against abortion in first few weeks u should stop mastrubating. You kill billions of potential babies that way.

You say that as if masturbation isn't also repugnant.

Holy shit stop acting like you think you're better than everyone else

I'm not trying to appear better than anyone else. I'm just pointing out that it's something people do for momentary pleasure and I am sure most people would rather have an intimate partner than have to "make do" with... themselves.

But that also means that a mother who endangers her baby by, for example, smoking or drinking alcohol, should be charged with child abuse.

I mean... yeah. The information is pretty available, most everyone should know neither of those things lead to good results when the child is born.

I was talking about "Nice conjecture everyone, once again my expectations have been met in full." not your line about people wanking

[DaMonkey]

Sorry, I assumed it was what you were talking about because the "nice conjecture everyone" was just a joke comment - sorry. I'll own it though, as I too make arguments from conjecture.

Also to expand on my comment to Duuring, you can actually be charged additional crimes which involve a fetus in the United States, so both of your examples aren't really outlandish to a lot of us, as no doubt they were meant to be.

[McPero]

South Africa ain't lookin so good 

Let the Chinese deal with Africa they are doing far better than Europeans and USA did so far.

And for the abortion part

In China there was a tradition that if firstborn child was a girl she would be killed. Philosophy teaches that every community that there was in the world had some basic moral laws that were same all around the world even though they were not connected at all. One of them was to not kill other members of the community. But in example of China killing firsborn girls those girls weren't considered members of the community you can also say they weren't considered human. So reality is society itself determines the truth whether abortion is murder of a child or removal of a few cells. And society must always strive into changing itself to progress for better, so that people are happier, feel better in the society. In the past it made sense that abortion was a murder as it helped with repopulation (speaking of middle ages, new age up untill 19th century). But currently it is far better for society whether you like it or not to accept abortion as simply removal of a few cells as we are looking into overpopulation problems and on personal level I think many women would end up much less happy with not having option of abortion. Of course you have examples when abortion is regreted by the the person and can also lose ability to have a baby after, butbits impossible to prevent every bad thing.

[McPero]

Nice conjecture everyone, once again my expectations have been met in full.

If you are against abortion in first few weeks u should stop mastrubating. You kill billions of potential babies that way.

You say that as if masturbation isn't also repugnant.

Yeah better tell your child that his dick will fall off is he mastrubates. That will help his mental development.

[DaMonkey]

I like how you kind of just take things to assumptive extremes.

[Duuring]

Also to expand on my comment to Duuring, you can actually be charged additional crimes which involve a fetus in the United States, so both of your examples aren't really outlandish to a lot of us, as no doubt they were meant to be.

Feticide laws are not in place in all US states and the very fact they exist strenghten the idea that fetuses are not human beings in the eyes of the law. If they are, there is no need to write specific laws on the legal position of fetuses. Likewise, there are specific laws to protect animals because the rights granted to humans are not automatically in place for them.

I mean... yeah. The information is pretty available, most everyone should know neither of those things lead to good results when the child is born.

I personally would ban smoking while pregnant given the serious dangers involved.

The consequence of which is that the woman's body becomes in service of the fetus, removing her autonomy to make decisions. Women are not baby-making-machines.

[StevenChilton]

Feticide laws are not in place in all US states and the very fact they exist strenghten the idea that fetuses are not human beings in the eyes of the law. If they are, there is no need to write specific laws on the legal position of fetuses. Likewise, there are specific laws to protect animals because the rights granted to humans are not automatically in place for them.

Same could be said for Australian Aboriginals, who were classed as part of the flora and fauna up until the 1960s...the fact that there was a need to write specific laws on their legal position does not strengthen the case that Aboriginals aren't human. Law stems from culture, it's not objective truth.

The consequence of which is that the woman's body becomes in service of the fetus, removing her autonomy to make decisions. Women are not baby-making-machines.

Except from a biological standpoint they are, else the human race wouldn't number 7 billion. And yes, I think it's a moral obligation (that should come naturally anyway) for the woman to be in service of the fetus whilst pregnant.

I think it's very socially damaging to move away from the role of women primarily as mothers (same goes for men as fathers). I don't think it's a good thing that abortion rates are sky high. I don't think it's a good thing that single parent families now make up more than 1 in 4 UK households and growing. This is *not* what human evolution intended given it takes 18-21 years to raise a human to adulthood, so it's no wonder Western societies are rapidly socially decaying. Easy access to abortion has played a big part in that but it's far from the only cause. I think the West needs to grow out of the religion of 'selfism' that's taken over and re-discover duty and responsibility. It'd do wonders for crime rates, educational attainment, living standards and so on.

[TheBoberton]

The consequence of which is that the woman's body becomes in service of the fetus, removing her autonomy to make decisions.

"Sorry honey; I could have avoided the physical and mental health issues that will plague you for the entirety of your life as a result of your fetal alcohol syndrome, but living in the moment was, like, way more important."

[Furrnox]

Is a day after pill murder?

[William]

If the race wars do end up happening all these aborted babies/cells (whatever you want to call them) won't be able to be conscripted and we're going to have the Chinamen problem where there are just too many of them to fight regardless of our skill and equipment. Think before you speak SHEEP

Fertility Rates

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World Population Percentage Estimates

Black = Africa , Yellow = Asia, Blue = Europe, Brown = North America

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[Furrnox]

I really hope you're joking. Because that's the dumbest argument I've seen on this discussion so far.

[Toffee]

I really hope you're joking. Because that's the dumbest argument I've seen on this discussion so far.

He's trying to troll

[Edwin]

Actually, he does touch upon an issue that has gone unmentioned thus far by pro-choicers in this thread: terrible western birth rates. Western governments have failed to curb the upcoming fallout via mass immigration (what a colossal failure that has turned out to be) and if the current birth trends continue, the west is going to be in serious trouble both economically and culturally. Abortion has played a major role in all of this.

Women are not baby-making-machines.

Uhhhh, Duuring... I hate to break it to you but...

[Furrnox]

More like the way of life have changed it.

[StevenChilton]

Yeah, a lot of Europeans are extremely selfish. Don't want to have children but still expect to be propped up by a generous welfare system in old age. They'll eventually die alone in a crappy state-run old people's home.

I'm actually quite surprised at how sanguine a lot of European governments have been about terrible birth rates and are only just starting to react. It's probably too late now and a lot of the changes are minor and/or cosmetic anyway. Only Poland and a few others have actually put into place serious policy to deal with it.

It's also no coincidence that it's the former Communist countries that have the lowest fertility rates in Europe. The kind of anti-family policies that their governments deliberately pursued inevitably led to it. I'm just annoyed the West decided to follow them down the path and is now refusing to turn back.