Author Topic: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?  (Read 37221 times)

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Offline Archduke Sven

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Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« on: December 02, 2013, 08:02:49 pm »
Thought we could get a little discussion going on here, and please leave eugenics out of this as it's irrelevant.

Personally i would say these reasons:
Spoiler
- Education and training: Let's face it, for an armed forces it's size the Wehrmacht was second to none in training and education of it's soldiers, pilots and sailors.

- Equipment: The Wehrmacht had a huge amount of top of the line equipment for most of the war, particularly post-1943 when they possesed the best weapons of all warring factions, ironically that was when they were losing. However in '39-'41 the German arsenals weren't really that top of the line regarding tanks and anti-tank weaponry. They did have a disadvantage in Luftwaffe since they weren't able to produce enough Fw-190s (later Me262s) and were stuck with Bf 109s for most of the war (Already 5 years on it's neck by 1940)

Motivation: The soldiers were disciplined, and motivated to fight. During the early years it was to avenge the Versailles Treaty and the injustices it had imposed upon Germany. In the later years  it was to protect the Fatherland from destruction, as many feared the Soviets would completly dismantle Germany if they won. This partially explains why 150 German divisions could withstand over 400 Soviet ones for 2 years against all odds.

Commanders: The Wehrmacht had lots of experienced and talented officers available, most of the senior ones had been officers already in WW1.

Doctrines: The combined arms, surprise and speed of German doctrines gave them a definite edge until the Allies learned how to counter it.
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Or was the Wehrmacht really that much superior? Leave your responses, i'd be glad to hear your opinions.


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Offline Joseph Graham

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2013, 08:10:07 pm »
Someone who actually knows that the Wehrmact wasn't just the Heer? Holy hell, that's rare.

Offline Archduke Sven

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2013, 08:16:33 pm »
Quite so, but then again i read a bit more than most people  :P


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MagicTeatowel

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2013, 08:23:09 pm »
I read a book recently (forgotten the name, i'm such a nub) but it mentioned the logistical challenges behind the Blitzkrieg.

Could any of you German WW2 experts elaborate on these challenges?

Offline Riddlez

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2013, 08:26:47 pm »
Supplies are slow, former examples of blitzkrieg, like the Mongol invasion of Europe, proved that supplying a large army is indeed a task, it takes time for the supplies to reach.

The mongols lived of foraging of the enemy country.

But the bottom line is, is that with Blitzkrieg, if you're not really careful, you find yourself closer to your enemies, than to your friends....
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Offline Archduke Sven

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2013, 08:32:55 pm »
I read a book recently (forgotten the name, i'm such a nub) but it mentioned the logistical challenges behind the Blitzkrieg.

Could any of you German WW2 experts elaborate on these challenges?

Well yes, i think it was Guderian that said 'Any competent officer can command a Panzer division, it takes a genius to supply one.'

Fact that the supply lines had to follow the extremely quick advances of the Panzergruppes, this required trucks and a good road system through the occupied land. What made it more difficult was that the tanks and trucks of the divisions needed oil to advance, without oil they couldn't move, thus putting even more pressure on the logistical support. The Germans were able to do this because they got the amount of supply vehicles in their divisions right, they had fewer tanks, but (i believe) thrice the amount of support vehicles of for ex. a Soviet tank division.

The Panzergruppes often had to take supplies from the enemies. Later in the war it became vital to steal supplies from the enemies, such as in Operation Wacht am Rhein (Battle of the Bulge)

This worked out perfectly in France where the distances where smaller and the road network was good, less so in Russia where the distances where larger and the road network was awful.

Supplies are slow, former examples of blitzkrieg, like the Mongol invasion of Europe, proved that supplying a large army is indeed a task, it takes time for the supplies to reach.

The mongols lived of foraging of the enemy country.

But the bottom line is, is that with Blitzkrieg, if you're not really careful, you find yourself closer to your enemies, than to your friends....


But that was ofcourse the entire purpose of it, to not give the enemies any breathing room, to be hot on their heels.


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Offline Augy

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2013, 08:39:07 pm »
wehrmacht got fucked up whenever it lost momentum and got bogged down.
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Offline Archduke Sven

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2013, 08:40:21 pm »
wehrmacht got fucked up whenever it lost momentum and got bogged down.

Could you perhaps elaborate with an example?


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Offline ClearlyInvsible

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2013, 08:43:06 pm »
wehrmacht got fucked up whenever it lost momentum and got bogged down.

Could you perhaps elaborate with an example?

Battle of the Bulge. The Heer was best as a mobile strike force, not as a slowly advancing one. They took land quickly, holding it was... a different matter.
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Offline Archduke Sven

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2013, 08:45:38 pm »
wehrmacht got fucked up whenever it lost momentum and got bogged down.

Could you perhaps elaborate with an example?

Battle of the Bulge. The Heer was best as a mobile strike force, not as a slowly advancing one. They took land quickly, holding it was... a different matter.

Yes, i would agree with you there, it is a good example. However the problem with that battle is that the German forces were bogged down due to them no having any oil, not neccessarily due to enemy action, with the exception of Bastogne.


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MagicTeatowel

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2013, 08:53:16 pm »
Riddles Sven, Thankyou very much, appreciated.

Offline Archduke Sven

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2013, 09:11:28 pm »
Riddles Sven, Thankyou very much, appreciated.

Forgot to mention that trains were extremely important to supply larger units like an army. One of the main goals for the success of Operation Barbarossa was to capture enough Russian trains (Russian traintracks were of different gauge) to supply the army formations. As the wagon and horse was way too slow, and driving trucks cost valuable fuel.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 09:13:06 pm by Archduke Sven »


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Offline Tali

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2013, 09:47:15 pm »
wehrmacht got fucked up whenever it lost momentum and got bogged down.

Could you perhaps elaborate with an example?

Battle of the Bulge. The Heer was best as a mobile strike force, not as a slowly advancing one. They took land quickly, holding it was... a different matter.

Inital german sucess in the bulge was due to bad weather that prevented the allies from using their air superiority. As soon as weather conditions improved and allied planes started supporting their ground troops, the battle turned agaisnt the Germans.

Obviously, this wasn't the only reason, but it was the main one.

Offline The Nutty Pig

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2013, 09:52:20 pm »
if they were so good they would have won
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Offline Riddlez

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Re: Why was the Wehrmacht so superior?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2013, 10:50:36 pm »
The soldiers themselves could have won the war. Surpreme command couldn't.
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